Serial entrepreneur Lindsey Holden, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of the personal finance app The Long Game, literally played the long game when she spent 5 years living in her family’s veterinary office, to pay off her student loans and build a solid financial foundation. 

In Lindsay’s money story you will learn:

-Why she lived at her family’s veterinary office for 5 years

-Some of the unique experiences she had and what, if anything she would do differently

-How to come up with creative solutions to financial problems

-Tips on how to pay off student debt

In Lindsay’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to stick to your convictions and deflect judgement when making personal money decisions

-Why Lindsay considers herself a minimalist spender

In Lindsay’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to leverage coupon codes using Google ads to get discounts on services like Uber and more.

In My Take you will learn:

-How using gamification can motivate you to save and encourage better money habits

-How to get the most out of a rewards programs

Bobbi and Lindsay also talk about:

-How Lindsay’s app The Long Game works

-Lindsay’s experiences as a serial entrepreneur

EPISODE LINKS

Uber

Google Adwords

Cryptocurrency

https://www.longgame.co/ 

Follow Lindsay!

Twitter @linzor1

Linked In @LindsayHolden

Follow Long Game 

Twitter: @LongGame

Instagram: @LongGameSavings

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lindsey Holden:
It's kind of like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson. And then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, hope that little teaser at the top got you curious. This story is one-of-a-kind. And it makes you think, what would you do to get yourself on solid financial footing if you had debt coming out of school? How far would you go? And for how long? And would you care what people thought?

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to everyone, and thank you for spending time with us. We keep it short here, around 15 minutes, flex time for podcasts. If you find value, the only payment that we ask is that you share it with friends, the ones you care about, the ones you want to live a richer life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Lindsey Holden. She is the CEO and founder of Long Game, which is a personal app that uses games and rewards to incentivize financial habits. All of us could use a little extra motivation. And Lindsey was certainly motivated to get her financial life in order. Great story, my friends. Here is Lindsey Holden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Holden, you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the Long Game. You're certainly in it for the long haul. This is not even your first company.

Lindsey Holden:
Yeah, we built a financial app, so we're an FDIC insured savings account. That have games on top, and you can win up to a million dollars on our app for saving your own money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's awesome. Let's talk about your money story, because that has to do with building a base to now have the kind of success that you're seeing. You kind of took a step back at one point, to make sure you have that firm foundation, and it had to do with sharing a bathroom with 40 people for about five years? Am I getting that right?

Lindsey Holden:
Yes you are. Let me tell you a little more about that. After leaving college, I had a graduate degree. I had also, major student loans, like a lot of people today. And, I had a job offer in San Francisco, which is a very expensive place to live, and my finances are tight. My father owns a veterinary hospital in San Francisco. So I decided to move into a veterinary hospital, in a room in the back, where I did share a bathroom with 40 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain more. How exactly did that work? Were there 40 people living there?

Lindsey Holden:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't think so.

Lindsey Holden:
It was a place of work. Essentially, my bathroom was also shared by the people that work there. And there're specific hours, obviously, where it was much more comfortable to take a shower or whatever it was. But it was kind of a silly thing, but it was a really long period of my life. I had lived there from, I'm embarrassed to say, five years, to pay off my student loans, and get a good start on my career. But there're a lot of silly little things, when you're there. Because you end up being part of a community in the place that you live.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, like what?

Lindsey Holden:
I lived in a room in the back of the hospital, and we had a mouse infestation. Mice, they moved into my room. I was like, "Well, we have so many cats here." So I went downstairs and basically said, "Hey, can I borrow a cat for a minute?" And they're obviously like, "No, you cannot. You cannot take a cat."

Bobbi Rebell:
I thought they were going to say yes.

Lindsey Holden:
I know, me too. There's like a boarding cat, that wants to do some work here.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually accomplished quite a bit, because you did pay off your student loans.

Lindsey Holden:
Exactly, yeah. There's a lot of expectations around starting your career, and having this life that you've always imagined. I think it's really important to be practical, and not to be afraid to have creative solutions, and just develop the foundation that you need to build a life that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things you did, besides not paying rent, to pay off those loans, and form that foundation? So you could go and be an entrepreneur?

Lindsey Holden:
Paying off loans is absolutely huge. Most people today, that are graduating, have student loans, about $38,000 on average. So, to build a lifestyle that you're living well within your means, when you get that first job, is just really important.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things that you did? So you lived rent-free. Were you changing the kinds of foods that you ate? Did you go out less with your friends? What other things helped you achieve that goal?

Lindsey Holden:
I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to things, so I wasn't spending too much on extra things, and trying to really optimize my life in that way. I think that's basically a mindset and an attitude that you can get in, that's really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Holden:
The takeaway is that maybe it's not cool to move in with your parents or whatever, but don't let shame be the driver in this. I think it's ridiculous. The way to really live a cool life is to be an individual, and be responsible for the financial life that you want to live.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever get criticized? Or did you feel like people judged you?

Lindsey Holden:
Not criticized, but it's like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life, as you can imagine. But I just owned it because it was something that, I really care about building the foundation that you need to have the career that you want. And the people that love you, really start to think that's cool too.

Lindsey Holden:
I've had flowers delivered to the front desk there, before. So all the people that work there, just knew my social life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your every day money tip. You have one of the most creative ways I have ever heard of, to really leverage reward codes.

Lindsey Holden:
This one's fun. You know, there're a lot of referral programs out there. When you're playing on the internet a lot, you find creative ways to use these. And one of the things that I did when I was living at veterinary hospital was to run Google AdWords against my Uber code. This can be done with any other referral program, but essentially, the link that you're using is your referral link. And then, you're able to get the money from the referral, which ended up being credits for Uber. It was just a fantastic way to get some free rides around the city.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about the Long Game. So, as I mentioned earlier, this is not your very first venture. You're an experienced entrepreneur. Tell us more about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
Like I said, Long Game is a gamified financial app. We're trying to make banking into a wonderful, joyous experience. And we do that through use of games. A lot of those games are games of chance, where you can win up to a million dollars. But you can also win cryptocurrency in our app. We're always talking to our users and finding out what rewards they want to see in our app. And then using those to help people build a financial foundation that they need.

Bobbi Rebell:
So specifically, how does it work?

Lindsey Holden:
So you download an app, where Long Game, obviously on Google Play and the App Store. You get a FDIC insured savings account. Then, as you save in that savings account, we reward you with games. And you can choose which game you'd like to play. Some of our games are instant win, some of them are a weekly drawing. But they're all giving you a chance where you can win cash. And, the more you save, the more games you can play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come up with this?

Lindsey Holden:
It came from an idea that's called Prize-Linked Savings. It's usually run by financial institutions, or governments, actually, for bonds. But, it's offline, you basically deposit in an account, and there's a monthly raffle, generally. So we've taken that idea, and brought it into an app form, and made it much more engaging and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us more about the future. I know you're always coming up with new games. What can we expect to see next?

Lindsey Holden:
Not only are we coming up with new games, new rewards, all the time, new characters in our app. We're also adding financial products. So, Long Game hopes to be the financial hub that can help you with all your financial needs, in a rewarded way. So you can imagine us later, online banking, letting you pay down your loans, and that sort of thing. And then giving you rewards for completing those actions.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest prize that anyone has won?

Lindsey Holden:
It's a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
A thousand dollars is the most you've given away?

Lindsey Holden:
A lot of people have won a thousand dollars, actually. We've given away over a hundred thousand dollars to-date.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, great. Tell us where people can find out more about you and about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
You can find out more about us on LongGame.co. You can download Long Game in the Google Play store, and the App Store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, to follow you on all your socials?

Lindsey Holden:
On Twitter, I'm @linzor1. And you can find me, Lindsey Holden on the rest of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much Lindsey. This was amazing.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that was a genius money tip there. Super original for sure. DM me if you try it, and let me know how it goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Apps that use gamification to motivate you to adopt better financial habits, are always a good thing. In addition to, of course, checking out the Long Game, some other popular ones are Beeminder. It forces users to make a commitment to a financial goal, and to hit milestones. Now, if you don't hit them, you have to make a payment to Beeminder. Obviously, you can fake out the system, but, if you go with it, it might be just painful enough to make a difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one that's a little different, is Fortune City. Along with bookkeeping and so on, to check expenses, the app has a simulation game to build and grow your own city, so it keeps it interesting. Other more traditional apps that make paying more attention to your money, more fun, and help you achieve savings goals for example, include Acorns, Stash, You Need a Budget, Thrive, and Qapital, that is, Qapital with a Q. I'm going to leave more info in the show notes, which can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcasts/lindseyholden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lindsey talked about sharing her Uber code through Google AdWords. We all get codes all the time. Make sure if you love a product that you use, and you recommend it to a friend, you tell them, give them your code, ask them to use your code, if they try the product. And it's fine to say, "I'll get a bonus," because almost every case, they get something too. And even if they don't, friends want to see you rewarded. So don't be shy about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And every time you sign up something new, don't forget to use a friend's code, that they can share with you. So if you know a friend uses a service, or goes to a certain exercise place, or buys a certain product, ask them, "Do you have a reward code that you can give me, because I might sign up for that as well." Just think for a moment, who you know that uses that product or service, pay forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, I want to thank all of you for sharing your time. DM me, let me know your favorite gamification apps. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell. On Instagram, at bobbirebell1. More about the podcast, at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And did I mention, my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup is now out in paperback. I'd love it if you pick up a copy, and maybe one for a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, to the Long Game's Lindsey Holden, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Tori Dunlap saw big dollar signs when she took a new job, but the red flags she ignored during the interview process soon created an impossible situation.. and a new appreciation for the emergency fund she never thought she would have to use.

In Tori’s money story you will learn:

-Why she regretted her first job out of college

-Red flags to look for during a job interview

-How trusting her gut helped her make the right decision

In Tori’s money lesson you will learn:

-Things to consider before taking a job

-Why it's important to have an emergency fund

In Tori’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to score deals on hotels when traveling

In My Take you will learn:

-How to start an emergency fund

-What to do if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund

Bobbi and Tori also talk about:

Expedia

Rockstar Finance

EPISODE LINKS:

Check out Tori's website here: https://www.victorimedia.com/ 

Follow Tori!!

Instagram @victorimedia

Twitter @victori_media

Linked In @Tori Dunlap

Transcription

Tori Dunlap:
She just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?" And so I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great, your last day will be tomorrow." And I felt panicked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, so given that you're choosing to listen to a money podcast, you probably have an emergency fund, or you know that you should have one, and hopefully are working on building one up. I'll be honest, my family's goes up and down. It's not always where I want it to be, but this story, shared with us by Victori Media's Tori Dunlap, is going to lock into your mind why so many financial experts go on and on and on and on about that darn emergency fund. Special welcome to our new listeners, so glad you found us and that you are here and to our regulars, we appreciate your support, you're everything to us, so please continue to listen to the show and to support it by telling friends that you think deserve to live a richer life. Maybe do a quick screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter, at Bobbi Rebell one on Instagram, so I can thank you and on that note to our inspiring guest, Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
She is the force behind a new blog, Victori Media, which focuses on career and personal advice for millennials that, as you will hear, is already drawing a lot of attention because it's just really good. Here is Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Tori Dunlap, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to my attention because you have been nominated at the only awards that count, of course, the [inaudible 00:02:10] awards, as best new blog and then I was checking out your blog and I had to have you on the podcast. So thank you for being here.

Tori Dunlap:
It's been so awesome. This is my first spin con, and obviously my first nomination, my first kind of finalist opportunity, so yeah, I'm just over the moon, thrilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are joined, because I am of course honored that this podcast was nominated as best new podcast, so we'll be up there with the newbies the two of us, hanging out I think. Woo hoo.

Tori Dunlap:
It'll be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. You brought with you a money story that I found a little bit shocking, but maybe it's not as unusual in the millennial world, I'm a gen X-er. But maybe it's not that unusual because you kinda just went with your gut. Tell us, Tori.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so I took a job for the money and ended up regretting it very very hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just interject one thing though, a lot of the time jobs are about money. You should take a job that pays enough money. It shouldn't be just about the money, but money does matter.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh totally. Yeah. I mean if jobs didn't pay us money we wouldn't show up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, so it's okay to take jobs for the money but clearly there was something else going on that didn't work.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally, yeah, so I was looking to get out of my first job right out of school and I realized I wasn't growing, I wasn't learning anything. I wasn't feeling challenged in the way that I wanted to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of job was it? What were you doing?

Tori Dunlap:
I worked ... I actually ended up leading digital marketing and communication for this global security company, so my job right outta college, I was the only marketing, communication, or PR person for this 5000 employee company. So it was really crazy and I just knew being kind of this team of one, there wasn't a lot of growth trajectory for me there. So after about a year and a half I knew it was time to leave and I got approached by this recruiter who told me this job that sounded perfect on paper. It was a digital marketing manager role, which is what I know, what I'm good at, what I love.

Tori Dunlap:
I came in to interview and something in my gut just didn't feel right, the office was like half office half showroom. Everybody there, they weren't really talking to each other, there was only about 12 people in the office. But I'm a really social person so that was kind of a red flag for me, but I went in and interviewed anyway and I interviewed with the woman who was to be my boss and she was the CEO of the company. Within about 10 minutes of that interview she offered me the job on the spot, which again was kind of a red flag, I'm like, I know I'm awesome but don't you wanna ask me more questions?

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they desperate? What was going on?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, that was definitely what it was and so I didn't know this at the time, but the position had been open for about seven months. So they were really looking to find somebody. She asked me what my salary range was, and I knew in order to make a leap from my previous job, where I had just received a 20% raise, I knew it was going to have to be another jump up, so I asked for 20% more than what I was already making, expecting it was going to be a negotiation, expecting she'd counter. And she just agreed, and she said, "Well this is 20 thousand more than we paid the last person, but we really like you and we really want you to jump on board."

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is really flattering.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh so flattering, especially for me, and a lot of us struggle, especially-

Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you?

Tori Dunlap:
I was 23.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
A lot of young women, especially when you suffer from imposter syndrome, and so it was something that was validating but also scary and also just overwhelming and exciting. I went home and I talked it over with my daily who I'm really close to and close friends and I couldn't put my finger on why, just my gut was telling me, no this is not for you. You're not gonna be happy here, this is not the environment that you will thrive in.

Tori Dunlap:
But I saw dollar signs and I couldn't say no. So I ended up accepting the job. Went in, by day two I knew it wasn't going to be a right fit. I ended up leaving the office, calling my mom and saying, "Hey mom, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this." And like all good moms do, she's like, "Stick it out, it'll get better, it'll be fine." It ended up just being a really really unhealthy work environment. I had really negative interactions with my boss, I was crying myself to sleep at night, I was scared I was going to be fired. I was tasked with these really demanding, overwhelming workload that wasn't feasible for one person to do. I wasn't happy. I wasn't healthy, I wasn't thriving, I wasn't feeling fulfilled at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a lot more than just not being fulfilled. This is really, this is your life. You can't be in that kind of situation.

Tori Dunlap:
And I knew in my gut the entire time, my gut was telling me, "This is not for you. This is not for you. This is not what you want. This is not where you should be." And I didn't listen because I was dreaming about how much I was going to be able to save for retirement and like a New Zealand vacation I was going to be able to take and all these things. So I ended up having to quit that job. Basically because it was so unhealthy after about two and a half months without another job lined up, which is the ultimate personal-

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me about quitting. How did you quit?

Tori Dunlap:
She was kind of pushing me out. So I knew if I didn't quit first it wasn't gonna be good, it was gonna be pretty ugly and I didn't wanna go through that. So I had this huge project that I wasn't trained on, I ended up finishing it even though she was kinda rooting against me, which was a horrible feeling and had the project finished by 8:30 am on a Thursday. I went into her office an hour and a half later, and she just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?"

Bobbi Rebell:
She knew. She knew. Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great. Your last day will be tomorrow." I felt panicked talking to my family. My parents, of course, were really worried. I'm an only child, so they're very involved in my life and especially my finances and so they were really worried for me. I knew it was the right decision and I felt so much relief when I walked out of there at three o'clock on a Friday.

Tori Dunlap:
Even though I didn't have a job I luckily had an emergency fund, which is something that I really advocate for. I had enough money that I could survive while I found a new job, but I felt such relief being able to be happy and just leave and to not have to worry anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm happy that you had the strength to do that because it is a brave thing. And it's scary. What is the takeaway for our listeners?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I would say trust your gut first off. Just understand that, of course, a job at the end of the day is about making an income but it's also where you spend eight plus hours of your day for five days a week around people you hopefully like and respect and with a manager who hopefully likes and respects you and vice versa. So make sure you're trusting your gut in any sort of situation, but especially through a job application and a job interview process.

Tori Dunlap:
And second, make sure you have an emergency fund, whether it's needing to get out of a bad situation in a job or needing to leave a partner who you live with or anything that is an emergency, you getting unexpectedly ill or you get a flat tire, having an emergency fund is so important to be able to give you the freedom to make decisions that you wouldn't be able to if you didn't have one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's perfect for people that love to travel and travel well. Because part of growing up is not always having to stay at the youth hostel or the budget hotel, whatever. Sometimes you're ready to be in the grownup hotel.

Tori Dunlap:
We're gonna go in a completely different direction here. Much more positive and exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much more positive.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. But one of my favorite money tips that a lot of people don't realize is, you and I were both talking before, we really like luxury boutique hotels, for me they're just a great way to see a new city or to just get a different perspective from a chain hotel. But they're often expensive and people often use third party sites like Expedia or orbits to book on. And that's great, but usually what happens is they actually don't give you the best rate, and that surprises a lot of people. So if you go to the hotel's website or if you call them directly, they usually offer you a discount or some sort of perk, like free valet parking or a free breakfast because you're booking directly with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because they pay those sites a commission, they have an incentive to have you book directly.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally. And you're supporting the local business in a way that you aren't if you're booking with Expedia or one of those other sites. So that's a really fantastic way to support that city, support that local business, and to also, hopefully, get a perk out of it as well.

Tori Dunlap:
And if something were to happen as far as needing to change your booking or an emergency comes up, the hotel itself is a lot more flexible. If you try to call Expedia you're waiting on hold forever and they're usually more stringent with their cancellation policies so you're not the hotel's customer until you're actually in the hotel if you book with one of those third party sites. So booking directly just makes the whole process way easier and then hopefully saves you money or gives you some sort of perk as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's really interesting that the hotel doesn't really engage with you until you're there if you book through the third party systems. I never really thought about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it's a great tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, so I am new to your blog, but I am also getting a little bit obsessed with it. Some of the headlines, just for people to know, alright, Five Ways to Combat Imposter Syndrome, so relatable, Four Lessons I Learned From Rap Songs, not relatable 'cause I don't listen to rap but definitely got me curious. And then I think my favorite one on there was 17 Ways to Be Productive at Work When You Have Nothing to do, 'cause this happened. One of my jobs early in my career I tend to be a bit of a workaholic and sometimes my coworkers don't have the same enthusiasm for their jobs and I would finish a story early and wanna just do more stories, just because. And my coworkers didn't wanna do that. So I would be left sitting there, kind of lost, because I wanted to do more stuff. So tell me more about that article and maybe some of your other favorite ones, and the blog in general.

Tori Dunlap:
I write about personal finance and career for millennial women, a lot of the blog content that you see is written by me, and I also bring in different voices so actually most of the articles you listed were some of my really great female friends who are also writing about career and finance and so I really try and bring in different perspectives too so it's not just me droning on and on. But I love talking about negotiation so I have some negotiating posts on there, like exact scripts to use when you're calling third party sites, kind of like we mentioned or when you're negotiating a cable bill or a phone bill, the exact script to use, that's something I really love doing.

Tori Dunlap:
Summer's over now, but it's good all year round, I just wrote a post about financial to dos that you can complete over the summer. So give yourself a three month period and they're really easy, really actionable as far as checking them off as you go, and then yeah, I just sourced one of my favorite articles that I've written recently, I sourced from Rockstar Finance, just a bunch of different texts from people about a way to manage your finances in under 10 minutes. So again, super actionable, easy to do and that was inspired by a post I myself wrote about 11 ways to better your finances in under five minutes, so especially for us millennials, if your finances are sort of out of control or it seems overwhelming, it's hard to get started. It's hard to start chipping away at that iceberg. But these small little things that you can do that take no more than five 10 minutes a day is a great way to get started.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Rockstar Finance is another great website. So alright, so tell us more about where to find out ... where to find the blog and where to follow you on all the socials.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So my name is Tori so Victori Media is spelled with an I, V-I-C-T-O-R-I media.com and you can connect with me there. Find all the blog content as well as all the social media accounts are liked to Victori Media, so I'd love to have you stop by.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Tori!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about emergency funds, and if you don't have the cash to fund the three to six months many experts recommend, what do you do? Financial Grownup tip number one, if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund needed and want to make sure you have access to cash at a reasonable interest rate homeowners can get something called a heloc, that's a home equity line of credit, now you have to take this out before you need it. That's the key thing, but it will give you a financial life line if needed. And except for any fees to set it up, if you don't use it you're not paying interest, so it can just be there if and when you need it, and hopefully that'll be never.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, Tori talked about booking hotels directly with the actual hotel, I've recently started deliberately booking flights directly with airlines. I do my research and I google flights, and third party services like Expedia, but I actually try to book directly on the airlines that way if a change is needed or there are changes in weather, what have you, I found the airline is better able to help you if you're in their system directly. In general, unless a third party middle man is bringing you real value, there's no real downside to cutting them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright thanks to all of you that have subscribed. The show is free to you. But for us, to keep at it, we do need your support, so please do all the things, subscribe, rate, review, and most of all, let people know about us by recommending to friends. And if you haven't read my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, it just got more affordable because it just came out in paperback, so please check it out. And while you're at it, tell your friends to check out Victori Media, and thanks to Tori Dunlap for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK media production.

Dad Dave Ramsey taught Rachel Cruze the basics of money and staying out of debt, but that did not keep her from wanting to splurge before she had the cash to afford it.

In Rachel’s story you will learn

-The dinner party conversation that had her questioning her values

-What it was like growing up in the Dave Ramsey household

-The way she and her siblings earned money as kids

-The quote that helped her find the right decision to her money dilemma

In Rachel’s money lesson you will learn:

-Rachel’s advice on how to decide on whether to splurge on expensive luxury goods

-Rachel’s perspective on how to manage social media created wants

-How to live your age-appropriate life, no matter what your friends are doing

In Rachel’s money tip you will learn:

-The importance of being intentional with  your money

-Her monthly technique to create a budget

-Planning for taxes

-How limits and boundaries can help you take control of your finances

-Her recommendation to use Everydollar free app for budgeting

In My Take you will learn:

-How to live your age-appropriate financial life

-How to afford luxury items on a budget

-How to keep instagram-envy in perspective

Episode links

Rachel’s website: https://www.rachelcruze.com

Everydollar budgeting app

The Rachel Cruze Show

Rachel’s book: Love Your Life, Not Theirs

Rachel’s book: Smart Money Smart Kids

Bag Borrow or Steal

Use this link for RenttheRunway and you will get $30 off your first order (and I get $30 too!) 

ArmGem.com

Bagtropolis.com

MonLuxe.com

Bagdujour.com

Bagromance.com

Follow Rachel!

Instagram @rachelcruze

Twitter @rachelcruze

Facebook: Rachel Cruze

YouTube channel

Some fun stories on renting handbags:

I own nothing

7 places  where you can rent designer handbags

High Fashion Designer  Dress & Handbag Rentals- Worth the Money?

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Transcription

Rachel Cruze:
We went out to dinner with Mom and Dad and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh it's so beautiful. I want one!"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So, did our guest go get that purse that she really wanted? I'll give you a hint, her parents are Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Yeah, that Dave Ramsey. But then again, her mom had one. That got you thinking right? Well, Rachel Cruze did grow up in the Ramsey household. At the time of her birth, her family was actually in financial peril, so the values and belief system that she has now came from years of hard work that she grew up watching.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, even if you already follow Rachel Cruze and you're a fan, maybe you've read her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, this is a story that you probably have not heard before, and I'm going to bet you're going to want to discuss with your friends afterwards and really think about what would you do? Here is Rachel Cruze.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rachel Cruze! You are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Rachel Cruze:
Hey Bobbi, thank you! Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life, not the least of which is your seven-month-old daughter.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, I know. We now have two little girls in the house, which is just nuts. But yeah, so she's seven months now, Caroline. I mean, if you're a parent you know how fast time flies and it's such a cliché, but it's so true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, it's so true. But at least now with all of our digital media, one major plus is we document it so much.

Rachel Cruze:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we can see what goes on.

Rachel Cruze:
Thousands of pictures, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm really excited to deep dive right into your money story, because it also has to do with parenting and sort of looking up at your parents and seeing all of their accomplishments, but then maybe translating appropriately to your life. You went out to dinner with your parents maybe a few years into your marriage? Tell us the story.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes. Okay, so you have to understand that I grew up in Dave Ramsey's household, okay? So debt was like a four-letter word. If you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And we worked hard as kids, we were never given money. So we were never on allowance, we were always on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were on commission?

Rachel Cruze:
Commission, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is something you would get commission for?

Rachel Cruze:
Oh gosh. Cleaning your room, feed the dog, running the vacuum, helping put laundry away, like chores around the house is what we'd get paid on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so that's the world I grew up in. So you kind of have to understand that for this story. So, fast forward many years, I was out to dinner with my parents. My husband and I had been married at that point, probably about two years, so this was around 2011. We were working hard, we were a few years into both of our new careers and getting paid like the bottom. I mean, we were maybe making like 35,000 a year. I don't know what it was, but it was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
But age-appropriate.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, totally! I mean, we're early 20's, that's the reality. You're in an entry-level job and that's what you're doing. And so we went out to dinner with Mom and Dad, and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh, it's so beautiful. I want one."

Bobbi Rebell:
Describe it, what was it?

Rachel Cruze:
It was black and it was the type of bag that ... I won't throw the brand name out there, but it was like the square, where it was stiff. Does that make sense? Like it held its form when you set it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It was super fancy.

Rachel Cruze:
So nice and just beautiful, yeah. And I thought, "Oh, I need a new purse. I've been working hard for two years, right? I deserve a nice purse!" So we went home that night, and I went and looked it up online because I told myself, "I think I could buy this," and I saw the price tag, and I almost passed out. So like, "What? Oh my goodness. No, I don't have the money to pay for that." And I had kind of this pity party for about five minutes there, on my laptop, of thinking, "But we work so hard." And then I had to stop, and I shook myself, and I was like, "Rachel, no. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you. You're in your early 20's." And it just reminded me of the quote from Larry Burkett where he said that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same standard of living as our parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes!

Rachel Cruze:
But it took our parents 30 years to get there. Yeah, so it was just that reminder of, you know what, when you're young, no matter where you are in life, I'll say that, but when you're being wise with money, sometimes it's going to cause you to say no to things. And it's like, "Okay, no. I can't afford that right now," but I'm saying no in the present so that I can say yes in the future. That I can make a wiser purchase later when we actually have the money and it's not a huge percentage of our net worth, which it would have probably been at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so it was just one of those moments of thinking, "Okay, I'm going to have to say no to myself and it's not fun." But fast forward now Bobbi, six, seven years, now I'm like, "Okay, I could probably get a similar type of handbag now and that's okay, you know? Because we actually will have the money now to buy it."

Bobbi Rebell:
Although you'll probably spend it on baby stuff anyway, but ...

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, it's probably going to end up going to like a big girl bed, which is what our two year old needs right now, so.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Rachel Cruze:
Just to remember that wherever you are in life, you have to be confident and content in it. It's hard in our 20's, when we want things. It's hard in our 30's, when you're itching to think, "Is this all life is?" I mean, every decade's going to have its own set of problems and issues, but you have to be content no matter where you are in life, or you're going to spend yourself into a hole and constantly live with debt, and with things that you can't afford and things that you really don't need.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, your friends probably can't afford them either.

Rachel Cruze:
Exactly. But on Instagram it looks like they can.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, I want to get an every day money tip, something you, your family, do on an every day, or monthly, yearly, whatever. Something real and tangible that everyone can put to work right now.

Rachel Cruze:
The number one mistake people make with their money is that they're not intentional. So my money tip would be, do a budget every single month, no excuses, do a budget. Because what you're doing is you're telling your money where it's going to go before the month even begins, and so start at the beginning of every month and create your budget and stick to it. Which means that there's limits and boundaries, yes, but it's going to help you take control of your money and actually get you to where you want to go. I mean, so many of us ... Especially now in life, I'm like, we're doing our taxes and thankfully I don't have to look back and think, "Oh my gosh, where did all my money go?" No, because we were very, very deliberate and intentional.

Rachel Cruze:
And it takes some mistakes and it's going to take a little while to get used to it, but give yourself a good three months to get your budget to start working and stick to it. You can download EveryDollar, it's a free budgeting app and it's awesome to help you get started if you've never done a budget before. But being intentional with where your money goes is tip number one, by far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And I will put a link to EveryDollar in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, tell us what you're up to. I know you're back from maternity leave, you've got your show, I adore the first four episodes so far. What's coming up next?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, well thank you. Yeah, well the show, The Rachel Cruze Show, is one that I am so excited about. We did four episodes right before I went on maternity leave and we're actually finishing up episode one today, we're filming some of it today, which is so fun. So it will be out on YouTube and Facebook, so you can follow and subscribe to both of those, and it will be really just this 30-minute show compact with guests and content and segments all around how money fits into your life, but we have fun with it. I mean, there's fashion tips, there's cooking tips, I mean, it's basically how do you live your life well and be wise with your money all at the same time. And so it's been a really fun project to work on and one that we're continuing to do, which is great, for the ongoing foreseeable future. So I'm really excited about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I will tell everyone, they're really well produced, this is coming from a former TV producer. They are really put together very well, very watchable. You'll probably end up binging, so just leave enough time to invest in watching the episodes because they really are terrific and they really are put together well.

Rachel Cruze:
Well thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And great for, especially for moms, but really for anyone. Even cooking tips, baby tips, big kid tips, everything, it's just terrific. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, in terms of social media and all that stuff?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, @rachelcruze and it's C-R-U-Z-E. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I'm all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Rachel Cruze, this has been great.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah. Thanks Bobbi, thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, who has not wanted that fancy purse a friend or a relative has? We're all guilty of that. Even maybe we saw it in an ad or on social media, but as Rachel pointed out so well, her parents are at a totally different life stage. So Financial Grownup tip number one, live your age-appropriate financial life. If you're an empty nester for example, with a comfortable retirement nest egg, pun intended, and it allows for, say, super fancy handbags or some other luxury splurge, go for it. But if you are one of the millions of people just starting out your adult financial life, or maybe you're also new parents, or you have typical early-career income for someone in their 20's, maybe early 30's, and you have goals, like paying off debt or saving for a down payment for a home, maybe you have young kids. You have age-appropriate financial realities and that's okay, don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing great. If you really want a fancy handbag for some event, or just to have around for a little bit, you could rent at places like Bag Borrow or Steal, or Rent the Runway.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, social media driven envy is a real thing, we're all human. Whether it's a friend's vacation photos or they just always look so put together, don't make assumptions, live in your own world. That's something Rachel talks about in her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs. So many young people are now coming forward admitting they literally do things, literally go on vacation, on trips, they buy specific items, to make their life seem Instagram-worthy. Friends, you have better things to do. And by the way, all those cool things may not even be theirs. You'd be surprised how many people are on the rental bandwagon, so maybe get on it. Or maybe just do without it completely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all so much for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast, it's amazing. Thank you in advance for anyone who now goes, hint hint, and maybe takes the time to write a review, subscribes and so on. And also, I really enjoy hearing from you, so thank you to those of you who have been communicating through Instagram and Twitter, Facebook and so on. Keep doing that, I'm on twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on what's going on with the podcast. Rachel's story was so great, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Million Dollar Listing star Ryan Serhant, whose new book “Sell It Like Serhant” is already a best seller, and his younger brother Jack had what seemed like a brilliant idea for firewood a business at age 10. While the business went down in flames, the lessons formed a foundation for Serhant’s extreme success in the real estate and entertainment business. 

In Ryan's money story you will learn:

-Why he says he was not a natural salesperson

-How 10-year old Ryan and his 7-year old brother started a firewood business to make money on their family farm

-The challenges the boys faced including difficult customers, and uncooperative vendors

-Why they were literally left on the side of the road by a worker!

In Ryan's money lesson you will learn:

-How to deal with challenging customers

-Why you have to anticipate an be prepared with realistic expectations when you start a business

In Ryan's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to use the faces app to motivate you to work harder for your future!

-The specific way that photo helps Ryan avoid overspending

-The impact that the failure of Lehman Brothers had on Ryan's outlook

Ryan and Bobbi also talk about:

-Why Ryan belonged to three gyms

-Ryan's daily routine and how can apply parts of it to your life

-Tips on how entrepreneurs can structure their days

-Why Ryan studies the top business leaders

-Ryan's Finder, Keeper, and Do-er system

-How many times you need to follow up if you want to work for Ryan!

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use the tips from Ryan's book Sell it Like Servant for both offense and Defense when it comes to sales techniques

-How to take Ryan's strategy of studying high achievers to the micro level and apply it to your own life meeting and learning from others

EPISODE LINKS:

Find out more about Ryan at

https://ryanserhant.com

Follow Ryan!!

Instagram @ryanserhant

Twitter @ryanserhant

Get Ryan’s Book "Sell it Like Serhant"

sellitlikeserhant.com

Check out Ryan’s Vlog! youtube.com/ryanserhant

Learn more about Ryan's hit Bravo shows!

Million Dollar Listing New York

Sell It Like Serhant



BIO:

Ryan Serhant began his first day in the real estate business on September 15, 2008 – the same day that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in the wake of the subprime mortgage collapse. While the real estate sector has steadily recovered, Serhant himself has quickly become one of the most successful brokers in the world, with agents under his leadership in New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and the Hamptons. The Serhant Team has been named by WSJ Real Trends as the #1 real estate team in New York for two years in a row, and the #2 team in the country, selling close to $1 billion in real estate last year. Ryan is consistently the youngest broker to make the Journal’s top ten list each year.

Ryan stars in the popular Bravo series “Million Dollar Listing New York,” which just wrapped its seventh season. On September 18, 2018 – the week of his 10-year anniversary in real estate – he will debut his first book, Sell It Like Serhant. When pre-sales were announced, Ryan was #1 on Amazon’s daily list of “Movers and Shakers.” As star and producer, this year he also debuted his new Bravo show, "Sell It Like Serhant," started a successful vlog (www.youtube.com/ryanserhant) and launched an app (Agent Empire: NYC). There is nothing Ryan can't do. His motto communicates his professional and personal philosophy, "Expansion. Always. In all ways."

---

Transcription

Ryan Serhant:
We got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his would be in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted the wood actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got in his pickup truck and he drove off and left me and my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was million-dollar listing star and newly minted author, Ryan Serhant, getting real about his first sale experience. It did not go well. Thanks everyone for joining me. This episode is a big deal, and not just because of Ryan Serhant. He is a big deal, though. It's even bigger because it is Episode 100 of the Financial Grownup podcast. We are also celebrating being a finalist for best new personal finance podcast at the Plutus Awards. And, the paperback of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, is coming up October 2nd. None of this would be possible without my amazing editor and secret weapon, Steve Stewart. So, thank you, Steve. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to the fantastic Ryan Serhant. When you read his book, Sell It Like Serhant, and if the title sounds familiar, yes, he has another reality TV show on Bravo called Sell It Like Serhant, you're going to learn more about this incredible guy. But of note, he says he was not a natural salesman. That came later after learning from experience. So, we talked about how he learned about sales and being successful in business. Here is Ryan Serhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ryan Serhant, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And happy pub day, we are taping this on the day that you're amazing book, Sell It Like Serhant: How to Sell More, Earn More, and Become the Ultimate Sales Machine, is coming out. It's already a bestseller and comes on the heels of so much other success. Like million-dollar listing New York, and my new obsession, your vlog. So, congrats on all.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk to you about your money story that you brought. It has to do with the very first experience you had in sales, which makes perfect sense coming from the ultimate sales guy. Tell us about the firewood and your brother.

Ryan Serhant:
So, I wasn't a natural salesperson. And I think it's very hard for people to be born as natural sales people. And what that even means, I could write a whole nother book about it. But I was a very shy and little kid. All I knew was that in order to be able to have money to spend, I had to make money. And if my parents weren't going to give it to me and if I was in school and was too young to get a job, what could I do?

Ryan Serhant:
We lived on a farm outside Boston, and my little brother was seven. We were doing a lot of ... my parents were kind of like cutting down trees and making way for pastures and things like that. And I just saw all these trees laying all over the place. And asked my dad one day, "What are you doing with all of those streets?" He was like, "Wow, they get cut off, they get sold off. They get turned into malts. It just kind of gets recycled." And I was like, "Well, we have fireplaces in our house and we get firewood, don't you buy that from somewhere? What if we take the trees and we cut it up and I sell the firewood?" I had no idea how he's going to do it, I was not big enough to hold an axe. But my dad said. "Okay."

Ryan Serhant:
He said, "What's your company going to be called if you're going to be a firewood selling company?" And we took out a little ad in our local newspaper. I think it was called Ryan Jack, because my little brother's name is jack, Firewood Company. I think that's literally what it was.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who paid for the ad, Ryan?

Ryan Serhant:
We did out of our minimal allowance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, this was your startup capital costs?

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, that was our startup capital cost. Because they were doing all this tree clearing anyway, there was a wood splitter that was already there. And my little brother and I started splitting wood, and we bulk it up into chords, and we put it in the back of a pickup truck. And then we would get the guy that kind of was helping cut down the trees to be our delivery guy to then go supply people with their firewood. And that was our first little business. And it came crashing down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There were some challenges, things you didn't think about.

Ryan Serhant:
Well, I didn't think about customer service and how to deal with people who are unhappy with their firewood. All I knew was I live at this house down the street, there's a bunch of cut down trees, we're going to cut it up and sell it. What do you mean that there's different types of firewood, different types of trees, different types of drying, termites, all these things I didn't even think about?

Ryan Serhant:
So, we had some tough customers in the beginning, and I also didn't think about how I was going to get the word anywhere. So, I thought that the guy that was cutting down trees was going to help and just help us drop it off, we're little kids. But he wanted to cut, and then we got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his wood really really in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted to what actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got his pickup truck, and he drove off and left me my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street which is random guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're kids. Oh, my gosh.

Ryan Serhant:
Yap. That was the end of our firewood business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, in the end, was there a profit or loss when all settled in?

Ryan Serhant:
Definitely a loss. I don't know how much we lost, because I didn't really understand what my time was worth at 10 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Ryan Serhant:
And our capital cost was that one ad. We might have run two ads. I can't remember what they cost. Maybe it was 20 bucks and ad. It wasn't a huge loss, but it definitely was a ding to the self-esteem that maybe I don't want to run my own firewood selling business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Glad you moved on to real estate. What's the takeaway for our listeners?

Ryan Serhant:
The takeaway from that is anticipate and be prepared with realistic expectations. Just having wood to chop down and sell it is a very, very small part of actually creating a firewood selling business. So, you need to be prepared for all the objections and all the issues you're going to run into.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are things that apply to all sales, which we'll get to in just a minute. I just want to get to your everyday money tip.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, there's something that I have in the office. That is a photo of myself as an 80-year-old man. There's this app you can get on your phone called the Faces App, someone just showed it to me. You take your photo of yourself and it realistically ages you, which is pretty crazy. But that photo is future Ryan. And every day, I think about that guy. Because I mean, it feels like just yesterday that I was that 10-year-old kid selling firewood or trying to sell it anyway. Before I know it, I'm going to be that guy. And everything I do today is for him. It's not for Ryan this coming weekend, it's not for Ryan next year. All of that is going to happen regardless. But I don't want 80-year-old Ryan pissed off at 34-year-old Ryan because he made poor money decisions or poor savings decisions, or he's just spent too much. That is my money tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a great one. So, is there a specific ... Can you remember maybe one example of you kind of not being that motivated and then looking at that photo and being like, "Yeah, I got to do this."

Ryan Serhant:
Every time I think about spending money on things that don't need, I look at that photo. It's just like I ... and I don't want to sound cheap. But I don't need that many pairs of shoes. I run around the suit all day long. I don't need that many suits. Little things where I could have spent money and just because I have it or just because whatever, it's just credit, I think about that like, "You know what? I should save it, because compound interest is a powerful thing." And it's better off just being saved because you never know what could happen.

Ryan Serhant:
And at the end of the day, I got into sales business the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and I will never forget the pain that a lot of people went through at the end of 2008. And that's going to come back again, I don't know when. But it's probably going to come back multiple times by the time that I'm that old man in the photo that I have by my computer screen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, because I'm learning so much. Not so much as someone that sells, but as someone that is sold to. So, it's quite eye opening, Ryan, the things that happen.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of written as an offense, but it can also be defense. So, I want to go through some of my favorite things in your favorite things in the book. We talked before we started taping about your day. Tell us how a successful person at age, by the way, you're all of 34, you're always one of the journalist top sales people, you've been winning all kinds of accolades as a salesperson, and you're only 34. What do you? What's your day look like?

Ryan Serhant:
I start my day at 4:30, Monday through Friday. And it's just because I want to squeeze out as much of the day as I possibly can. I don't want-

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you sleeping at 8:00 or ... How much sleep do you get?

Ryan Serhant:
I try to go to bed by 11:00.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you don't sleep a lot of hours.

Ryan Serhant:
Not Monday through Friday. I'll sleep in on Saturdays to like eight or so. A lot of people just wake up and go to a job or go to work, and they don't really sit down and try to game plan for their career. I only have a few things during the day that I do that I consider part of my job. Everything else I do is for growth and for my career as a whole to make that 80-year-old guy happy one day. And a lot of that goes down to how you structure your actual day.

Ryan Serhant:
And for any sales people who are listening, any entrepreneurs, anybody who really answers to themselves, I had to figure out, what do I do at 9:00 a.m.? Do I cold call? Do I go out on the streets? No one's telling me what to do. And so, I looked at the top companies in the world, even I was just one person and I said, "Okay, all just top companies have CEO, CFO, COOs, I need to have the same thing, even though I'm just one person. So, that means I got to do it all on my own, and not all the same time, I need to separate it. You know what? The CEO, I'm going to call the finder, because I'm not really my own CEO. But I can be a finder of new business, a finder of new leads, a finder of work that the rest of my company can do for the rest of the day. I'm going to do that from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. 12:00 to 1:00 p.m., I'll be the keeper, so that's the CFO hours. That's when I would think about, "Okay, well, I've $10 to spend today. How many stamps can I buy with that $10?"

Ryan Serhant:
And I would think about kind of the financial health of my "company", which when I first started was nonexistent. And now it's really thinking about all the advertising budgets that we have, and the people and the moving and the salaries. And then the rest of the day, I'd spend being the doer. So, finder, keeper, doer is what I call it, FKD. So, finder, keeper, doer, and the rest of the day I'd spend as the doer, which is the COO. Sets operations, it's doing the work, it's doing-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which just a few can delegate more now.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, which now, the majority of my day is as the finder. When I started, the majority of my day was as the doer. I'd think for half an hour or an hour, because I didn't have that much to think about as to how I wanted to grow my business, I didn't have any money. So, that wouldn't take me that long to think about. And then the rest of the day, I put everything into action. Now, I have a team that can handle a lot of the doer work, and a team of accountants and bookkeepers that can handle a lot of the financials. And I spend 75% of my day as the finder, as that CEO trying to build the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I loved regarding Finder, and getting new business in the book was your strategy initially, and I don't know if you still do this. I can't imagine you have time to do this. You saw that it was working to meet people at the gym, potential clients. So, you expanded on that.

Ryan Serhant:
Yes. I think it's important to do what works for you, and then just to do it over and over again in as many different places as you can.

Ryan Serhant:
I knew when I first moved to New York City, I'm not from New York. It's not going to help me or be a good use of my time to go to school functions that other brokers are going to just because they went to school on the Upper East Side, or to go to the church, or go to the synagogue, just to say that I'm religious, but I'm not, just to meet people, which is what most sales people do. So, for me, I really had work, I would do to the gym. And the gym was a good place for me to meet people who had a similar interest, which was kind of general fitness. And if I go to a nice gym, maybe they also could afford a nice apartment, so they can afford a nice gym. And that worked. I saw it worked. And I said, "Okay, you know what? This is now my thing. So, I'm going to go to another gym as well. And then I'm going to go to another gym. And I'm going to go to as many jobs as I can, because that's what works for me. And that's going to be where I build my network." And then for the first couple years, that's really what I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thing that you make people do if they really want to work for you? It's not just about one follow up.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, I make them follow up for a considerable period of time. Because the power of follow up is my whole business. Deals live and die by how persistent I am to get the deal done. And I tell everybody, I don't work for anyone. I work for the deal all the time as a salesperson. And my job is to get that deal done to everybody's benefit. And so, if people want to work for me, I interview them, for sure. I have them interview a couple people on the team. But then I just, I call them. I let them sit and I wait to see how often they're going to follow up with me. Most people will follow up once, twice, maybe three times. And after that, they let it go.

Ryan Serhant:
You know how many deals I would have lost if I let it go after three follow ups? Unbelievable. So, I can't have that kind of person on my team. They got to want to be on my team more than I want them to be there, because that's the person who's going to be hungry enough to get difficult deals done for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much amazing information in your book and on your vlog, by the way. We didn't really talk about that. That's million-dollar listing, I didn't really realize this until you talked about it in your book, it's only on for three months of the year. So, people need to be watching your vlog.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, I think so. I put it out there as a way to put out a lot of the rest of my life and a lot of things that just aren't on Bravo. Bravo is real estate focused and it follows the individual deals. It's not with me in the car 24 hours a day, kind of in my thoughts and in my mindset, and that's what the blog is for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right. Tell people where they can find you, follow you, find out more, get the book, all that good stuff.

Ryan Serhant:
The book just came out today, it's called Sell it Like Serhant, it's everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you can find all the links at sellitlikeserhant.com. You can find me across all social media platforms at Ryan Serhant, and the vlog is @youtube.com/ryanserhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Ryan. This was great.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's unpack some of the things that Ryan said. Financial Grownup tip number one. I read Ryan's book twice. The reason I went back was to take notes. Now, I'm not in sales, at least not in a direct way. But I think it is important for all of us to understand how sales work, and the specific techniques that are being used so you can spot them. I joke about offense and defense, but that is important too. Because if we're being honest, who hasn't bonded with a salesperson, and then because of that felt they should, and sometimes did buy something they maybe wouldn't have bought otherwise? Always know that a good salesperson like Ryan will be in it for the long haul. And you can just push back. And even if you aren't a customer, now, you may be in the future. Also, the next best thing you can do is refer them to friends and family as potential customers. It's okay to do what's right for you, even if you feel an allegiance to the salesperson. We're all human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Ryan talks about how he studied the most successful companies and what top executives do. Take this to a micro level and find someone that you admire and ask them if they will talk to you. It can be coffee, a meal, or going for a walk. And if you can, maybe even ask if you can shadow them for a day at work. I did this early in my career. Just observe and learn. And if they're open to it, ask a lot of questions. Most people are flattered.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I am off to Orlando to FinCon and celebrating this 100-podcast milestone with some friends. I hope you guys will DM me and let me know what you want to see in the next 100 episodes. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1. I have some big changes coming that I will reveal soon, so please subscribe and make sure you go into settings and hit auto download so you don't miss any episodes. Until then, feeling really grateful to Ryan Serhant for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

After appearing on Shark Tank, The Sole Mates’ Becca Brown and Monica Ferguson found their best business support came not from the sharks but from a resource that would become key to their growing success. 

In The Sole Mates money story you will learn:

-New details about their Shark Tank experience- including the awkward conversations they had with well-meaning friends before their episode aired

-What happened after their appearance as they became part of the Shark Tank Alumni group

-The role the private Shark Tank Alumni group plays in their current business strategy

-Specific examples of business opportunities that have come their way from being part of this exclusive group

-Details of how they were able to get a major national retail deal that elevated their business

-How they got involved with the NFL

In The Sole Mates money lesson you will learn:

-Specific ways to find entrepreneur groups that fit your business needs 

-Strategies to work to grow organic networks

In the Sole Mates every day money tip you will learn:

-Which luxury shoe brands best retail their value

-How to make sure you don’t lower the value of shoes you intend to sell

-The best strategy and what to look for when buying pre-owned shoes 

Bobbi and the Sole Mates also talk about

-The impact of the national CVS deal on their business

-Other ways they leveraged their Shark Tank experience

-The human element to big brands

In My Take you will learn:

-My strategies for buying gently work handbags and clothing

-How to apply re-sale strategies beyond shoes, to things like wedding dresses

EPISODE LINKS

thesolemates.com

Follow The Sole Mates!

Instagram @thesolemates

Twitter @thesolemates

Facebook The Sole Mates

Shark Tank 

CVS

Amazon.com

Facebook.com

Good Morning America

The View

The NFL

THEREALREAL.COM

Christian Louboutin

Gucci

Heidi Klum

Vera Wang

Oscar De La Renta

Here is an article from one of my favorite websites, The Knot, on used wedding dresses

https://www.theknot.com/content/used-wedding-dresses-buy-sell-online

---

Transcription

Becca Brown:
If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook. Don't work with them," It's a warning to all of us, like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody be on warning. Don't take these calls."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. We all need someone in our corner. Actually, we need as many people as possible in our corner. And for entrepreneurs, connections are everything, which is part of the appeal of the show Shark Tank. A deal with one of the sharks, in addition to money of course, opens doors. But a lot happens also after the cameras stop rolling that we don't hear about. More about that from our guest in a minute. You might be surprised.

Bobbi Rebell:
But first, we have some exciting news to share. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast from the Plutus Awards, which celebrate money-related content. And this October my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, will be coming out in paperback. I hope you pick up a copy, if you have not already. And maybe tell me what you think, and send over some ideas for another book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Shark Tank and our guests, those Solemates co-founders, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. They left their jobs at Goldman Sachs to start a company making heel protectors under the brand Solemates, and their products have become huge hits among celebrities. Names like Oprah and her buddy, Gail King, and countless women, including myself. As you will hear, some men as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they went on Shark Tank and they got a deal, but the deal actually didn't happen. However, a lot of maybe bigger things, longterm, long "tail", I guess we call it. Big things happened afterwards in a way that I had no idea even existed. Here are the co-founders of Solemates, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. Hey, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen, you guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Becca Brown:
Thanks.

Monica Fergusen:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the names behind the Solemates, which started with heel protectors, and now have a whole line of many, many things to help us keep our shoes in good shape and weather all kinds of hazards, like weddings. So congratulations on the success of Solemates.

Monica Fergusen:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, we like to say that our goal is to make you more comfortable in your own shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and so does Oprah, by the way. You guys have got amazing press, so many big fans. You also got a lot of press because you were on Shark Tank, where you actually got a deal, after the fact though. And you've talked about this. The deal did not happen for various reasons. But the most interesting thing, I think, that you're going to talk about in your money story is what happens after. Tell us your money story.

Becca Brown:
Yeah, well, thanks for having us, Bobbi. This is Becca speaking. So obviously being on Shark Tank was an amazing experience. We were so thrilled to have that opportunity. But honestly, one of the biggest pleasant surprises to doing the show was what happened afterwards, which is we became part of this incredible, dynamic group of Shark Tank alumni companies; other companies that have been on the show. We are all part of this private Facebook group, and it has been literally the best resource for us to continue growing our business because it's like-minded individuals with, a lot of times, product-based businesses that are growing their companies. And we all are going through the same growth trajectories and sharing ideas and feedback and resources and it's been such an amazing resource for us.

Monica Fergusen:
Every time we would tell someone about what we did, the response was, "Oh, that sounds like something that should be on Shark Tank." And before you go on the show, you can't tell anyone you're going on the show, so it was a very frustrating time for us-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so you knew ... How far in advance before you actually ... first of all, before the taping, and then before it aired ... did you know? How long were you this keeping the secret?

Monica Fergusen:
Well, it was probably only a tight, tight, tight secret for a few months. The application process is really long and really from the time you start applying, you're pretty tight lipped about it because there's no upside in telling people what you're trying to get on. So it was a lot of forced smile responses of like, "Oh, what a great idea. We had not ever considered that"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So now you have this alumni group. Tell us more about the kinds of discussions and the kinds of advice that you've gotten from that and how has that helped your business?

Monica Fergusen:
The physical manufacturer of goods and the sale of goods comes with it a really unique set of problems including sourcing, including, web development, including your relationship with Amazon, including your PR, your social media, your relationship with influencers and traditional media, your relationship with employees. What kind of benefits do you set up? Do you have your own warehousing? Do you outsource it? There's so many things that come with every part of the business that to date we've kind of operated in a little bit of a vacuum where we leveraged them for everything daily. Being on the show it's a really cool and unique experience and I feel like it's also very much like a reflection of our culture right now, so in 25 years people will have no idea what we're talking about and Shark Tank is that right now and so it's cool to be a part of something that's so like of the moment culturally, which has also helped us grow our business in really unexpected and cool ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the unexpected and cool ways the business has grown?

Becca Brown:
Well right after airing, we actually reached out to a couple of big mass retailers. CVS Pharmacies was one of them and the timing was perfect. CVS happened to be looking into building out a whole new category around fashion solutions and accessories and we had just had this massive exposure being on Shark Tank and so the buyer was willing to meet with us and literally like a month after Shark Tank, we went up to Woonsock at Rhode Island and met with the buyer and ended up launching in 5000 retail CVS pharmacies a few months later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Did you go into the Facebook group and tell them about this and what was the reaction?

Becca Brown:
No, it's not really a place where you go and brag. Okay, so if I post a query today saying, "Hey, does anybody happen to know somebody that is working in media covering women's shoes?" Chances are within an hour I would have several responses like, "Oh, I know this person. I know that person."

Monica Fergusen:
Right. It's really, has anyone had this problem or has anyone met this person who's so helpful? It's asking questions and sharing a best practice. So like, "Hey, do you know if you contact Amazon on Sundays and you get the help desk in Ireland, there are much more likely to help your brand do X, Y, and Z if you get, I will not name a country, country on another day, hang up. Because like if [inaudible 00:07:09]

Becca Brown:
And I want to add to that too because I used to rent zip cars and that the sort of ethos of Zip cars was the community takes care of itself and you take care of the car and you return it with gas so that the next person can use the car. And I feel like our Shark Tank group carries that same sort of ethos. We take care of each other. We're looking out for one another. If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook, don't work with them." It's a warning to all of us. Like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody beyond warning don't take these calls." And so we all are only as good as what we contribute and we are genuinely wanting to help one another.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give me an example of wind that happened for you guys or for someone else in the Shark Tank alumni Facebook group that may not have happened without that network?

Becca Brown:
Good morning America and the television show The View. They do these really cool segments that are kind of like flash sales and on The View it's called view your deal and one of the. Actually two of the other Sharks Tank companies in our group have done view your deal before and they were so kind to introduce us to the group that runs that. So we did it in July.

Monica Fergusen:
And it was a great revenue generator and then more recently someone asked, anyone have products that would be interesting for NFL players in their fall training. So we're like, you know, we have products that we market for women but the product certainly work for men in hot pink packaging with high yield on it. If they're open to it, we're open to it and the managers looked at our product line and were like, "These products are amazing."

Monica Fergusen:
And so a 110 NFL players have been using our blister blocker and antibacterial spray as a result of some of the Shark Tank group The Newson sports managers who are looking for products for gift bags and looking to create relationships between celebrities and product companies and get nothing from it. Like the people in the group get, there no economic gain for them. It's more people they know have been put together with other people they know and that kind of goodwill you realize as you get older. It doesn't exist in that many places in the world people are often looking like, what can I get out of this? Or I can introduce you but like what's my take? And that is definitely not in line with the spirit of the Shark Tank group.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Becca Brown:
I think a lot of entrepreneurs, if they make a leap to start off their own business, they've come from a company where there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of resources that you may have taken for granted and when you venture out on your own, as Monica touched on, it's very isolating and I think it's very important as soon as possible to start building a really strong organic network that is going to help you grow your business. And so obviously not everybody is going to be able to be part of the Shark Tank alumni group, but I mean looking at other entrepreneurs groups in your area, leveraging like the Chamber of Commerce, leveraging the small business administration. I think looking at your alumni network, a lot of times alumni networks do have an entrepreneur focus. There's like a sub network and it just can be so much more helpful to have that kind of a focus network because everybody's kind of in it to help one another, but also to expand and grow their businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys brought a fantastic shoe themed everyday money tip, do you tell?

Monica Fergusen:
Yes. So we're in the business of shoes and we are both appreciators and to some to be collectors of nice shoes. Not all high heels but many high heels, but something I think people should take in mind when they are considering a purchase of new shoes is that sometimes the more you spend, the more you can get back. And if you look at the success of the secondary market, the used clothing market for shoes, it's thriving, but in particular Christian Louboutin and Gucci are two brands that stick out as having the strongest bid for their gently used shoes. If you spend a thousand dollars, God bless you on a pair of shoes, the real real Mike Compu is several hundred dollars when you sell it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by Compu?

Monica Fergusen:
I mean they will have someone buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Monica Fergusen:
To make it simple. It's $500. So your net cost on that shoe is only $500. Whereas a lot of other designers that are not quite as high don't have a strong secondary bid. So you're unlikely to recoup any cash when you try to sell them. If you try to sell them, but Christian Louboutin and Gucci in particular, the real real has reported have done phenomenally

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting. What about the fact that they are worn a little bit? Can you get them resoled? How does that affect the value, if you like with the Christian Louboutin, those are the shoes. Just so people know. I personally, by the way don't own any, but maybe some day they have the red bottoms, so what happens if you've worn it? Can you get them sort of resold? Because I resell a lot of shoes sometimes if I like them. Does that hurt the value? If you then put on new soles, can you paint them red? Does it matter?

Monica Fergusen:
It actually hurt the value. Done something like put on a new sole. They want the shoe to be in pretty good condition. I don't want to plug my own product too, but using things like a heel protector is a great start because the damaged heel-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you should do anyway, whether you're going to sell it or not?

Monica Fergusen:
Well absolutely, but a damaged heel really can't be fixed. So you wear a little heel protector, keeping that heel in perfect condition, therefore it's so much easier to sell it. As someone who sells a lot of shoes, I can attest the lifetime value of the heel protector exceeds its retail value because it's a gold age-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well how much is, I mean they're not expensive. How much is a heel protector?

Monica Fergusen:
$10.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Monica Fergusen:
And that $10 is probably generated hundreds of dollars in resale for me on my shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about buying shoes secondhand? What do people need to know there, what should they look for? Any tips?

Monica Fergusen:
So it's actually great to buy a shoe secondhand. And I have no economic interest in the real real, but I'm a big fan of theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I've sold stuff fair. They're great.

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah. But you can feel comfortable buying stuff from them too because they do have a really sharp guy and discipline and what they'll accept and they'll take anything back for them. I mean they'll let you know before you buy it, if it's final sale, but for the most part things are returnable.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk a little bit about Solemates. So what's going on with you guys? You're everywhere these days.

Monica Fergusen:
We're trying, we're trying. I mean CVS has been a great boon for our business and brought us in so many new customers and such great exposure and it's also been really fun to meet the brands that were sold within CVS. I mean it's more, again, more like-minded people, non Shark Tank brands. But we reached out to the other brands that were sold with just to introduce ourselves. A lot of them are based in our area, so we've been able to actually get together and have coffee. I think people sometimes forget there's a human element to everything. And so these massive brands that have names are intimidating because they've got Heidi Klum on their packaging, but they're run by real people that have real jobs and do a lot of the same things that we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about where people can find you and keep up with all the new products that you guys will be putting out?

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah, so we're @thesolemates on Instagram and twitter and Facebook and our website is thesolemates.com where we're sort of up to date with all of our retailers and all of our products were sold at CVS, DSW, David's bridal, Von Mar, about a thousand independence all listed on our website. Always changing, always, hopefully, always growing our website and Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

Monica Fergusen:
Bobbi. Thank you so much-

Becca Brown:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Not your typical everyday money tip, but personally I kind of loved it. There's nothing wrong with having fantastic shoes. If you can get them at a huge discount, barely worn even better, but know to buy. Financial Grownup tip Number one. So the same idea goes for other things that you may not think you can afford or want to spend big money on, but if you buy gently used ones, maybe they do fit into your mindset. For most of us, it's really about getting past that psychological barrier, whether it's the idea of buying something that has been gently worn or just the idea of owning something that is so expensive. Even if you didn't pay the original retail price, so it's important to look for niche sites that specialize in what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Real, real that Monica and Becca referenced is luxury, especially shoes and handbags, but you can also look, for example, for wedding dresses, so according to The Knot a used wedding dress in great condition can sell for 50% of the retail price. Just as is the case with shoes. Some designer names like Vera Wang and Oscar De La Renta will get a higher percentage. So if you want to go really high end and you know you're going to sell your dress after your wedding, know what you're buying so you know what you're selling and you can maybe choose a designer assuming that you liked that designer because you're going to be of course wearing the dress, which is the most important thing, but maybe if you're selecting between two, select a designer that will have the higher resale value. I'm going to leave a link to The Knot with some websites that you can check out.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to know more, including or to possibly even rent a wedding dress, the show notes that will have all this information are @bobbirebell.com/podcast/the soul mates. Financial Grownup. Tip number two, turn lemons into lemonade like the ladies did. Their deal fell through, but in the end, Monica and Becca leverage the Shark Tank experience and grew their business from the show anyway. Setbacks are only that and while they are a mum about why exactly the deal didn't happen ultimately my sense is that it just didn't work for both parties when it came down to it and that's okay. No deal is better than the wrong deal and that's a great lesson from Becca and Monica.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Please be in touch DM me on all the socials. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbirebell on twitter, and sign up for our newsletter@Bobbirebell.com and thank you for a great story to Becca and Monica. So much we didn't know about Shark Tank and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Broadway Roulette founder and CEO Liz Durand Streisand literally gave birth to her child just as her business came to life. Having that dual focus on the baby and Broadway Roulette created the perspective and balance to keep push past challenges and grow them both. 

Celebrity journalist turned CEO creating a new marketplace model to buy and sell event tickets. After a decade in the trenches of New York's entertainment scene, Liz saw the opportunity to pair expiring inventory to cultural events with consumers who were being bombarded by choice overload -- and Broadway Roulette was born. Broadway Roulette's key investors include Jesse Draper of Halogen Ventures and Randi Zuckerberg of Zuckerberg media. In 2018, Broadway Roulette was accepted to Morgan Stanley's Multicultural Innovation Lab, an accelerator focused on female and minority-led companies positioned to disrupt industries.

In Liz’s money story you will learn: 

-About Liz’s background as an entertainment and lifestyle journalist journalist covering celebrities like the Kardashians

-How she and her co-founder husband came up with the idea for affordable tickets to ALL Broadway shows

-Why the business morphed from a hobby to a business

-How they launched the business at the same time he was making a career change and their child was born, and the challenges that came with it

-How being a busy mom impacted the business- as a positive

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of choosing a life partner that really sees you as a true life partner

-How Liz breaks down big projects into smaller and more manageable tasks

In Liz’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Liz feels hiring a stylist is worth the money

-How it will save you money

-Specific ways to find the stylist that is right for you and your budget

In my take you will learn:

-How to get tickets to Broadway shows and other live events at deep discounts

-Ways to find free tickets to events and shows

Episode Links

Learn more about Broadway Roulette at Broadwayroulette.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missdurand/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/broadwayroulette/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/missdurandnyc?lang=en

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BWayRoulette?lang=en

  

Here are some options for discount and free Broadway tickets:

http://www.playbill.com/article/broadway-rush-lottery-and-standing-room-only-policies-com-116003

https://www.nytix.com/Links/Broadway/lotteryschedule.html

 

Great article in the penny hoarder on getting free and discount theater tickets!

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/smart-money/discount-theatre-tickets/

 

Seat fillers!

https://seatfillersandmore.com/

https://www.theaterextras.com/about.aspx

 

You could even go to the Oscars!!

https://www.refinery29.com/2018/01/189571/oscars-seat-filler-academy-awards-interview

---

Transcription

Liz Durand:
One day I was at the box office in labor, but didn't know it, buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby, buying tickets again. And the box office manager, there's two that are women, the one who was at the window that moment looked at me and was like, what just happened? Where is your baby?

Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, it is summer time to get out and do some fun things, oh but that budget. Well, this show is for you wherever you live. I hope this inspires you to go to live theater or go to a concert or whatever you enjoy. Just get out because it can be affordable in part because there are more and more disruptors in the entertainment business, like our guest who heads up Broadway Roulette. Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe to the podcast, we try to keep it to about 15 minutes to fit easily into your schedule. If you have more time, you can binge on, more episodes, especially if you're in a long car ride, going somewhere to visit friends. Maybe you're visiting some friends in New York. Our guests, Liz Durand Streisand knows all about that. Before she and her husband became parents, they had a lot of friends staying with them in their New York City apartment because they had something you don't hear about very often here in New York City, a spare bedroom. So their friends would come and they would want to see shows, but the big Broadway shows, the ones that they had heard of, we're always either sold out or ridiculously expensive. Fast forward, Liz and her husband came up with a way to disrupt the old Broadway discount model. Let's spend a money story with Broadway Roulette's Liz Durand Streisand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Liz Durand Streisand you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Liz Durand:
Thank you for having me, so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn more about Broadway Roulette. What is Broadway Roulette?

Liz Durand:
Broadway Roulette, it's basically price Priceline for Broadway with only two levels of bids. So you go onto the site and tell us when you want to go and how many tickets you're looking for and set some basic criteria about the type of show you want to see or don't want to see. And then the morning of the show you get an email that's like, surprise this is the show you're seeing and all the tickets are a flat price, so you don't have to like negotiate with your friends or look for discounts are stand in lines.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. We're going to talk more about that in a minute, but I want to talk about your money story because it ties into Broadway roulette. This happens all the time I feel, people are going through major life changes in their personal life. They're having babies, they're getting married, they're moving. All these things are happening and that is exactly when the greatest business opportunity ever just drops in their lap. Tell us your money story.

Liz Durand:
So I liked to be very orderly and very type A, which made me a good New Yorker for many years and I wanted to do things in the order that made sense and I saved 10% of my paycheck every month and did all that good stuff. I had a career as a journalist. I've been doing it for about a decade. I was very settled. It was very steady.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being modest, you were a very top entertainment journalist.

Liz Durand:
Yeah I was probably like the most prolific entertainment journalist in New York City for a decade. I wrote for every major publication that anyone has read on their phone, on the subway, on the way to work, hoping no one is seeing the story they're reading about the Kardashians. That was me.

Bobbi Rebell:
But they loved it.

Liz Durand:
But They loved to, and I actually really enjoyed it. And I would married. And then I finally was able to have a baby, which was very exciting, but at the same time that that happened HIS business that we had started kind of, not like as a joke, but as a hobby. It was sort of a side project just to see if anything would happen. And you know, two days after I gave birth, we landed this major contract with our first Broadway show and it was time to decide like go big or go home. He was actually in a very cushy family office job and it was about six weeks after I had the baby that he decided that would be a great time for him to leave that job and go basically be what I call a financial, a cowboy, to strike out on his own.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also in that time period this financing comes through.

Liz Durand:
Yeah, it was right around the same time. We had been sort of casually talking to friends and family about, hey, would you want to give us money for this weird thing we built in our living room? And that none of us know really that much about. And it turned out that the answer was yes. We met with two, they were technically venture firms but they were friends and they both said yes within a few hours of meeting us and that kind of, the tide turned and all the checks came in and all of a sudden it was just time to go for it. And you know, the timing was terrible in the sense that it's like I was nursing every three hours. I had just had a baby, my husband had just left his job, but the timing was also the timing. That's when it was. So it was the perfect timing because that was the only time if I didn't say yes to that money then, they weren't going to come back in six months and say, "Oh, can I give you money now?" They're giving the money now. So now is the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So what happened next?

Liz Durand:
So what happened next is I briefly lost my mind. I was working around the clock literally, plus not sleeping because I was taking care of the baby. So I was running out to buy Broadway tickets in the two hour pocket-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were, just to be clear, you're literally, it looks like you've got this massive company going on. You, Liz are going out and literally procuring these tickets.

Liz Durand:
Yes. So like one day at the box office and I was in labor but didn't know it buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby buying tickets again and the box office manager, there's two that are women in Broadway and the one who was at the window that moment was a woman and she looked at me and was like, "What just happened? Where, where is your baby?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Liz Durand:
But I think that's just ... on one hand I was very out of sorts because there's just all the drama that you just had a baby. But on the other hand was actually really nice for me to have something that was like the anchor and a goal that was unrelated to becoming a mother. That was, I have this business that is growing that needs my attention and the act of like leaving my apartment and running around in 95 degree weather and buying tickets at the theaters and begging people to hold them for me, actually was something that was very familiar at that point. And it gave me a sense of stability during a time that felt like it could have been just like spiraling out of control. In a weird way it was actually nice to do something over and over that wasn't that enjoyable, but that I knew how to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what is your takeaway for the listeners? If they experience something like that? And a lot of people do. Not that situation, but the convergence of different parts of their lives at the same time.

Liz Durand:
I think there's two things. I think it's important that you pick a life partner who truly sees you as a partner. Whether you want to pursue business or you just want to, do something else with your time. You want to work on charity, you want to take care of your kids. Having someone who's going to back you and they're going to back you, not because they necessarily agree with everything you want to do, but because they agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do and you should use the corded is the number one thing. The second thing is just breaking big projects down into small manageable tasks. Like when you're sitting there and you're trying to nurse and the baby's not latching on and you haven't slept in like eight hours. It feels like that's never going to end and your life is never, this is going to be your future forever and I think it's important to break down that bigger thing into a smaller task like all I have to do right now is try for 10 more minutes and then I'm going to put the baby down and I'm going to go buy these Broadway tickets and when I get back I'll try again.

Liz Durand:
And I'm going to give myself permission right now to not think that because this one moment didn't work that the rest of my life isn't going to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have an everyday money tip that I had not really thought of. I've resisted doing this, but you made me think about it very differently and I'm really excited to kind of consider this.

Liz Durand:
My money is if you are a woman with limited time, hire a stylist immediately. Unless you love shopping as an actual recreational pastime and it's something you do socially or you find it relaxing, cut it out. You don't need to be doing it. Hire someone the money you pay that person to accrue all the clothes for you, will be paid out in spades because they will number one, find things that are $25 that look like $200 or $2000. And number two, all that time that you would have spent trying things on at the store feeling bad about yourself, you can instead spend on something that is more valuable to you, like an extra hour at the park with your child or sending three extra emails that wouldn't have gotten done because you just wasted an hour at Bloomingdale's staring at 300 pairs of shoes and bought nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know my hesitation is, oh, it feels so frivolous to spend money paying someone to shop for me, and then what if they make me buy things are too expensive. I don't want to spend that much money. I feel like there's a lot of reasons people resist that kind of thing.

Liz Durand:
Well you need to find one who you're comfortable with who you can say to them, "I don't like this, I'm not buying it." But if you find the right one, it saves you so much time and so much money because you get an entire wardrobe that's like $25 dresses and then you have one handbag that goes with all those dresses that was a splurge, and now everything looks like it was a splurge. And I just think the emotional toll and the energy toll of shopping if you don't enjoy it, is so high. There's something to be said for outsourcing things so that you have time to work on things that add value. Like if you're not standing at Bloomingdale's, being miserable, finding things you don't like, that time can be spent on finding new clients. That time can be spent on something that generates revenue, that pays for the stylists, plus stylists are frankly not that expensive. They can shop in an hour, what it takes you, takes me four hours to find a dress that I don't really like, but I've finally given up because my friend's wedding is tomorrow and I need something. That's my shopping experience. My stylist in one hour, she's got me a wardrobe for the next six months.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find a stylist?

Liz Durand:
I think Instagram is a great place to go. As much as I have a love hate relationship with social media, I think if you find someone who's page you like who has style that looks like yours, that's a great place to go and find someone. It's also great to ask your friends because any of your friends that have really good style like that, I'd bet ne of them is using a stylist. A lot of people [inaudible 00:10:47] tell you unless you ask. It's like a dirty little secret.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about Broadway Roulette. One of the many things that impresses me is that if I go to one of the traditional ticket booths to buy a discount ticket, the shows that I see on the board are often the shows that are having a lot of trouble filling seats. When I go to Broadway Roulette, the shows are the ones we all want those tickets for. How does that happen?

Liz Durand:
Well, to be fully transparent, every Broadway show, except for the top like five average, have about 25% of their seats empty on any given night. There's very, very few shows that are actually sold out all the time consistently. The ones on the board in Times Square, which I affectionately call the wall of shame. It doesn't mean that they're terrible shows and it doesn't mean that you don't want to see it or that they have tons of empty etas, it means that the people that are behind that show have done the math and figured out that they'd rather have these seats sell at whatever price they're offering it there than have them go empty. There's other shows that decide they'd rather just not do that and not have their name up there and not have the seats all sell. So it is actually more of a management question then like a quality of the show question, but the way that our system works, we work directly with the Broadway shows. One of our big sales pitches to the show partners is, it's not an advertised discount or customers don't know what they're buying and so it protects your brand in a way that's very unique compared to like a big slash through it that says 80% off.

Liz Durand:
And because our brand partners to us as a company that is sort of based on the concept of rising tide lifts all boats versus race to the bottom, we're able to broker better seats at cheaper rates than you can find on public discount. And the second part of that is that we make a conscious effort to include, we literally send people to every single show on Broadway regularly. And that's a marketing expense for us. And the reason we do that is that we're not primarily a discounter where a discovery platform. So there's tickets to Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen and Hello Dolly and all the shows that you won't be able to see if you go to the TKTS booth, though I do think there's a time and place for that and no shade to TKTS. If you're not beholden to a particular show, this is a great way to see everything. And our customers do use our service over and over and over and we eliminate every show that you've ever seen through us every time you spin. So you can go 30 times and see 30 different shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is also a great business model because it promotes loyalty.

Liz Durand:
Yes it encourages repeat business. The thing I like about that part of the model especially, I mean really and truly is let's say we have a customer that we send to Miss Saigon that show's closed now, but let's say we send them to Miss Saigon. They have a great experience. That then prompts them to buy another ticket through Broadway Roulette. We then send them to, let's say, Phantom. We've now basically the experience that Miss Saigon has helped sell a ticket for Phantom. So our argument is that all the shows that work with us are helping each other versus competing for the consumer business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. Liz, where can people learn more about Broadway Roulette and about you?

Liz Durand:
Well, you can learn about Broadway Roulette on our site, it's just broadwayroulette.com. It's simple fun and easy, which is sort of our sales pitch. And the best place to follow me is just my Instagram account, which is just Miss Durand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that.

Liz Durand:
Lot's of cute pictures, if don't want to see cute pictures of the child don't follow my Instagram.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well thank you so much.

Liz Durand:
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Liz's story resonates on so many levels, but let's start with the one that's the most fun, which is getting tickets for what you want for less money. Financial Grownup tip number one, just because you don't have a big budget doesn't mean you can't see big shows. First of all, Broadway Roulette, as we discussed, is a game changer. But I'm also going to give you some other options, all of which have pros and cons. Obviously with Broadway Roulette you can see the best shows for less, but you do give up some control. Personally, I think that for as little as 49 bucks a ticket, that is part of the fun, but okay, maybe you're just in town for one night and you want to see a very specific show. You want another option. Most Broadway and off Broadway shows sell rush tickets and they also have lotteries.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some are online and some you do have to go in person. They can run for as little as $10 as is the case of Hamilton. Most are around 40 bucks, but yes, you can see Hamilton for as little as 10 bucks. You've got to be really lucky though, but it's there. Broadway shows also have standing room tickets. They are often under 30 bucks. Also look for student and active military discounts. Links that will tell you all the details for each show are going to be in the show notes. Financial Grownup tip number two, better than discount is free. Free entertainment this summer, there's also free theater in many cities. For example, right here in New York City where I live, we have free Shakespeare in the park. So you can wait in line, got to get up early, but you can also enter the online lottery. So if you've got to be at work, it's okay. Just remember to do this. I've always been able to get tickets at least once per summer. You may have to try a bunch of times, but you know what? Just set a reminder on your phone to enter each day and you're good to go wherever you live there are opportunities.

Bobbi Rebell:
One option, for example, get social. Follow the venue on social media of what you want to see. Sometimes if a theater isn't full, they will actually offer free or heavily discounted tickets to followers. You can also see things for free if you're willing to volunteer at a theater, maybe ushering or doing various other jobs to support the production. One thing I've yet to do but I hear about and I'm so curious about is being a seat filler. I'll leave links in the show notes, but basically you attend show tapings or live musicals or plays so they don't have empty seats and the stigma that goes with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. Thank you all for spending your time with us. It means a lot as do the social media DM's and shares that we've been getting. Please be in touch. I am at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter. And Bobbyrebell1 on Instagram. And if you're coming to New York, try Broadway Roulette. You can book up to three months in advance and if you follow them on social, they do freebie giveaways. Just saying. Thanks Liz for sharing the story of the birth of your business and your baby and for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Jessi Fearon lives her Real Life on a Budget- but getting her husband in line when he saw a great sale on Fireworks was still a challenge. Plus her tips on how she got her book buying obsession under control!

 

In Jessi’s money story you will learn: 

-Why her husband blew the budget on fireworks!

-How he tried to avoid telling her about the splurge

-How she reacted when she found out he spent more on fireworks than on their wedding

-What her husband’s buddies had to say about the situation

-What else the Fearon’s could have bought with the money he spent on the fireworks

-The upside of the incident: they had their first big money talk as a couple

-The mindset that allowed Jessi to forgive her husband, and give him a roadmap for handing future temptations

 

In Jessi’s money lesson you will learn:

-Tools to put in play if you are a saver married to a spender

-How to better understand and manage the mindset of an unintentional spender

-Specific ways Jessi and her husband set and execute financial priorities

-Exactly how much money Jessi now gives her husband when he goes shopping for fireworks

 

In Jessi’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How Jessi spent over $250 in one year on books on Amazon.com

-How she was tempted to spend more than she realized

-How Jessi rediscovered the library

 

In my take you will learn:

-Why approaching well-intentioned overspenders in a non-judgemental way can be effective in helping them to adjust their behavour

-Specific pitfalls that trigger us into spending more than we planned, and how to counteract them

-How to understand the mindset of consumers who fall into the trap of spending more than they planned because of well-designed targeted sales tactics

-The benefits of having intentional discussions with anyone with whom you have shared finances. 

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Jessi’s blog jessifearon.com

Get Jessi’s new free five-day money challenge

 

Follow Jessi!

Instagram @jessifearon

Twitter @Jessifearon

Facebook @JessiFearon

---

Transcription

Jessi Fearon:
They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff, and he said, “I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was”. They looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, “dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks”.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy 4th of July, my friends, we have a special just for Independence Day money story. Thanks to our friend Jessi Fearon from Real Life on a Budget. Hopefully you are relaxing and not at work today. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. Glad to have our returning folks as well, and thank you all for the DMs and the social sharing that's been going on. It's been so fun watching the show continue to gain traction, and we have you guys to thank. So, thank you. Hopefully, like I said, you're getting some time off this holiday week. For mom, Jessi Fearon, who is also an accountant, by the way. She celebrates every 4th of July with her husband, her family, and her friends in Georgia. And her husband is in her words, a total pyro. He loves his fireworks. So much so that he blew the budget, literally, which is not going to fly when your wife runs a blog called Real Life on a Budget. Here is Jessi Fearon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi, I appreciate you having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am a huge fan of your blog, Real Life on a Budget, because you get very real. So, congratulations on the success of all that.

Jessi Fearon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you manage it down in Georgia with three kids, which is pretty cool.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes. My sweet three children that can drive me crazy sometimes, but are such a blessing at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not to be forgotten, your husband, who ... This is ... Okay, little bit of trivia here, so your wedding, for fans of your blog, they already know this. Your wedding cost all of $500.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, your husband spent even more, more than ... Your husband spent more than your entire wedding budget on fireworks. So this is an episode that we're going to drop in honor of July 4th. You have the ultimate July 4th money story. Go for it, Jessi.

Jessi Fearon:
Okay, well, a real quick little just background. It was our first year as a married couple. So we decided that we were going to celebrate the 4th of July with a good old American barbecue. And at the time our state, Georgia. You couldn't buy fireworks in the state of Georgia. You had to go outside the state. And so my husband and his buddies, they load up the truck, and they take the two hour trek over to Alabama. They buy fireworks, and they come back. And I'll never forget it. Me and my girlfriends were watching the truck pull in, and it literally looked like the Clampetts coming down the road. There were so many fireworks in the bed of this truck, it was insane. I mean, I even commented to one of the friends, I was like, "oh my goodness, it looks like they just bought fireworks enough for town hall to shoot off tonight". And so as I'm walking up to the truck, my husband's friends had this look on their face.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, oh. Like this guilty look?

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah. It's like they didn't want to talk to me, they didn't wanna look at me. It was almost like they were afraid they were gonna witness a murder or something, like they just didn't want to talk to me. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of made a joke to one of them. I said, "good mighty, how much did y'all spend"? And the one friend goes, "oh no, it wasn't us". "It was not y'all, it was your husband". What? I look over at my husband, I'm like, "honey, how much did you spend"? And so he starts going to this big deal about how they had this great sale, that it was like, buy two, get two free, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "okay honey, how much did you spend"? And he was like, "oh, we'll talk about it later". So in my mind I'm thinking, okay, he spent a lot of money. He spent probably like $200. I'm thinking that's an insane amount of money. How could you spent $200 on fireworks, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're guessing he splurged and spent about $200.

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happens next?

Jessi Fearon:
I cornered my husband and I finally got him to tell me how much she spent. But he spent $702.48 on fireworks. And I literally couldn't believe it. I thought he was joking. I kept looking at him like, what? No you did not. That's our rent money. How could you spend $700 on fireworks? And I was so mad, and so upset, I didn't scream and yell, but it was one of those things where you could just tell that I was really upset about this. I couldn't talk to anybody anymore. I was like, how could you spend $700 on fireworks?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and to put that in context too, you do disclose some of your budgeting and your expenses online, but give us a high level, what would $700 buy in the Fearon household in a typical month?

Jessi Fearon:
That would have bought groceries for about three months at that time, because it was just the two of us. So that would have bought groceries for about three months. That would have paid the one car payment that we had for two months. It would have definitely covered utilities probably for about six months, at the time. And it was in fact our rent money. So it was quite the expense. It definitely was not planned. I really did not think my husband was going to spend that much money. To say that my husband's a pyro is a little bit of an understatement. He likes to blow stuff up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened next? You have this talk.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. So the next morning, I remember I was still so mad. I could not believe it. And the thing is, that you can't return fireworks. It's a nonrefundable sale. So, it's not like we could take back any fireworks, because I mean, again, my husband bought so many fireworks, we couldn't even shoot them all off that one night. We had to shoot them off on Labor Day and then on New Year's Day, because there were so many still left. I remember we were cleaning up from the party and we were putting all the fireworks that were left over in the garage. I remember, I was so, so mad, and I kept thinking like, I just wanna scream, I just want to yell. But then the more and more I thought about it, I thought, okay, if I just scream and yell we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. So why don't I just kind of calm down and take my emotions out of it, and talk to him about this, because I really need to know why he would spend $700. I was raised in a very frugal household, and you don't spend $700 on fireworks. Only people with yachts spend $700 on fireworks. Why would you do this? And so I remember I just kind of turned around to my husband and I was like, "this was a lot of fireworks". And he goes, "it kind of is, isn't it"? "I went a little overboard, didn't I"? And I was like, "yeah honey, you went a little overboard". "So you want to tell me about this because this was a lot of money you spent". This is the first time that I really got to see how, because I'm a saver, my husband's a spender. And so this is first time I got to see how kind of a spender, for him anyways, rationalized his purchase. And it was because of that really awesome sale they were having. They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff. And he said, "I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was". He said, it wasn't until we were halfway home that one of his buddies had asked how much did you spend? And they looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, "dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks". And my husband couldn't believe it. He didn't even think it was going to be that much money because he thought he was saving a whole bunch of money. So for us this was the first real money conversation that we actually had as a married couple. We had been married for almost a year. Our anniversary is July 24th. And so we had been married for almost a year at this point, and this is the first time that we really sat down and talked about money, because even though we knew one day we wanted to have kids, or one day we wanted to buy a house, we had no plans for any of that. And so, this situation kind of pushed us into actually having to sit down and have a conversation about money, and we started realizing, okay, if we don't come together and be a team on this, there's going to be more and more $700 expenses on random stuff that isn't important, because he certainly wasn't the only one spending money. He just happened to spend a lot of money at one time, versus where, our day to day lives, we were spending little increments of money here and there, without thinking about it. And I think that it really for us kind of showed us that it compounded on itself to this one big $700 purchase where we went into it with no plan to attack at all. So it was quite the interesting thing. And I forgave my husband, obviously, we've been married now for nine years. So I forgave him, and it's kind of become our epic story for our family, about my husband's $700 expense.

Bobbi Rebell:
So looking back, I guess it's about eight years later. What is the lesson for our listeners?

Jessi Fearon:
One, if you are married to a spender, always remember to give a grace, because a lot of times spenders don't recognize that they're spending so much money, because they believe that they're saving money because of the sale. And a lot times spenders are really good at finding the bargains. They really are great at that. And just like spenders always get upset with the saver, when they want to save a bunch of money and not spend it. And so for us it came down to finding that balancing act between being a saver and a spender, and having the honest money conversation where we decided together, okay, how much are we going to spend, how much are we going to save? What is the best of both worlds? And it came down to us writing down what our financial goals were, which was saving for a house, paying off debt, and saving an emergency fund. And all of that. So we were able to put those into the budget, but then we were also able to put in spending money for my husband to go and spend money because he still buys fireworks every 4th of July. And he still spends more than probably what most people would. But now it's a planned thing, and he just gets to carry cash. He has to leave the debit card at home, so he can't go crazy in the firework store anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how much cash is he getting this year in 2018?

Jessi Fearon:
Like I said, it's still more than normal, what most people would spend, but it's $150 that he gets to buy whatever fireworks he wants. So then he can go blow them up all that he wants to.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your money tip, because you've gone over budget with things as well. Especially one of your pleasures, which is reading.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And like I said, my husband's definitely not the only one that's at fault. I had spent well over $250 in one year on Amazon buying books. And I kind of didn't even realize it because I think Prime makes it so easy. And so does Kindle, where your just buying books, and you see the deals, and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanted to read that book. So let me get that one. Oh, Amazon suggests this book. Okay. I like that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were actually reading the books?

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because sometimes people buy and they don't read.

Jessi Fearon:
No, I was definitely reading them, because I love, love to read. I read on average of about four book a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I just love to read. And here I was just buying all these books and reading, and reading, and getting excited about it. And then when I finally, I usually do, my husband and I will sit down every year and we kind of do a big annual spending review, where we literally look at how much we spent in every single category. And what we spent it on. And when I kinda sat down and realized just how much I had spent in one year on books, I was like, oh. This is my fireworks story, isn't it? I'm like, okay. we got to do something, and so I rediscovered the library. And that has kept me in check this past year so far. So it's been wonderful. I've been able to feed my guilty pleasure without a completely wrecking our budget this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. All right. Tell us more about what you are up to. I know you've got some new courses on tap.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Right now I have a free five day money challenge. All about things that you can do for the next five days. It's only about 10 minutes, 10 minutes or less a day that you can do right now. These steps that will help you to be able to start managing your money better. It will get you started on the right path to taking control over your money, and to stop letting money control you, and start putting you at the helm of your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. And where can people find out more about you and your blog?

Jessi Fearon:
They can find me at jessifearon.com, and on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook at Jesse Fearon. I'm constantly on Instagram trying to just share all the little snippets of our real life and all of its imperfect details. Everything for my husband working his side hustle here recently to buy a new boat motor, and our [inaudible 00:12:03] vacation that we go on for the cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a great 4th of July.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi. You too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, one thing that Jessi said really resonated when she talked about how a saver, like herself, can better understand a spender, and it has to do with the mindset of the spenders. Financial grownup tip number one. Jessi says, if you're married or in a relationship to a spender, always remember, give them grace. Many spenders are well intentioned, and go off track thinking in that moment when they're making the buying decision, that they're saving money. Seeing a two for one sale sets off a feeling of excitement. So many of us have fallen into buying more of an item than we intended because of the way the seller has priced it. They're smart, they know what they're doing. It sometimes is a better deal. In fact, never once did Jessi criticize the fact that the per firework price of what her husband bought wasn't a deal. He may have gotten good value. He just spent too much. She gets it. And I love her empathy and understanding. By figuring out the mindset of her husband, she was able to steer him on a healthier path and give him the tools. Okay, and also she gave him restricted cash on a budget this year, to resist the next great deal, rather than just screaming at him that he blew the budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Jessi also talks about the fact that this was the very first time the two of them had really sat down and intentionally talked about money. They didn't have kids yet, but they were newlyweds and they had no plan. So if you're in a relationship that involves shared financial resources, maybe have a little chat. If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button, and if you are listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate the podcast and leave a review. They really matter. Also, if you like the show, just tell a friend to check us out as well. And thanks to Jessi for giving us such a great Independence Day story. Let's all go out and celebrate with our friends and family. Maybe take Jessi's advice, and read a good book. Libraries are great. Also though, it's also nice to buy books on occasion, because we want to support our authors and value what they contribute as well. Authors need to make a living. So, it's a balance. Be sure to check out Real Life on a Budget and Jessi's great free course. I will leave links to both in the show notes. And thank you Jessi for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.

In Andy’s money story you will learn:

-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan

-The emotional backdrop to that mistake

-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision

-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently

In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:

-The options Andy wish he had considered

-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship

In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research

-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan

-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings

In my take you will learn:

-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!

-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well

-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used

-Resources to get more information about 529 plans

Episode Links

Andy’s website:

Marriagekidsandmoney.com

Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook

Listen to Andy’s podcast! 

Follow Andy!!

Twitter @andyhillmkm

Instagram: @AndyHill 827

Facebook @andyhillMKM

 

Learn more about 529’s: 

Link to the SEC website:

https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html

Link to the FINRA website Saving for College

http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college

College Savings Plans Network

http://www.collegesavings.org/

SAVING FOR COLLEGE

https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan

---

Transcription

Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!

Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."

Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.

Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!

Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?

Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]

Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.

Andy Hill:
Nope.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?

Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?

Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?

Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?

Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."

Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."

Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?

Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?

Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."

Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."

Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.

Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.

Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.

Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.

Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.

Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.

Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.

Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and influencer Amanda Abella found out she was underpaid and often overlooked. But when she started playing hardball in negotiations with a really big potential client, she and her agent did not get the response they expected. 

 

In Amanda’s money story you will learn:

-All the things Amanda does to have multiple income streams tied to her own personal brand

-The challenges Amanda faced after graduating from college during the recession

-How her first job laid the groundwork for her current career as an entrepreneur

-How she and her agent planned for their negotiation with a potential client

-The pivotal decision that grew her brand ambassador asking rate almost 7 times over by focusing on her unique skillset

-What is a rate sheet, and what brand ambassadors do for clients

-How Amanda researched what was a new market/line of work for her business

-If Amanda has any regrets or things she would do differently in hindsight

In Amanda’s lesson you will learn:

-How she battles her nerves in high stakes negotiations

-Why the number of social media followers are less important than many people believe

-How to get brand partnerships by knowing what matters most to them

In Amanda’s money tip you will learn:

-How to find out about unpromoted discounts at restaurants and fitness clubs like SoulCycle

-How much you can save by using them, even if they are not advertised

-Amanda’s favorite places to get discounts and freebies

-What Amanda got for free recently at SoulCycle

-Why Amanda keeps getting water bottles

In My Take you will learn:

-How to asses what you bring to the market, to better negotiate higher rates

-What to do if you don’t currently have skills that add value to, and command a premium from, the clients you want to attract

-Tips to be more confident in a negotiation

-How the power poses, recommended by Amy Cuddy can give you an instant confidence boost when you really need it

EPISODE LINKS

Amanda’s website: amandaabella.com

Amanda’s podcast

Amanda’s course on becoming an influencer

Follow Amanda!

Twitter @amandaabella

Instagram- make sure to check out her feed AND stories: @amandaabella

Facebook Amanda Abella

Soulcycle.com where Amanda loves to get free stuff!

Check out Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk!

 

---

Transcription

Speaker 1:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Speaker 2:
We went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't. Not even one peep. Not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you like making money and want to know how to make more and ideally from different sources you are in the right place with our guests. Before we get to her though we've been getting a lot of new listeners so I want to just welcome all of you to the show and of course thank you so much to our returning listeners. So glad you are here. And if you have friends or family that you think would enjoy the show please tell them about it. Also the video promos everyone is asking about. So glad you guys like them. If you want one for your business or just for you we're having a little competition. I'm going to make one for a listener. All you have to do is share the promo videos on social media, starting now until July 1st whoever shares the most wins. I will announce the winner the first week in July.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to my friend and guest Amanda Abella. Besides the fact that for some reason her Instagram stories seem to be more entertaining than most TV shows she's hard to label because she does as she says all the things. Amanda is all about multiple income streams. She has a book Make Money or Honey, an award winning blog. She has been a brand ambassador for big names like Capitol One and [Into It 00:02:05]. She teaches millennials how to be entrepreneurs and influencers just like her and she will soon be bringing back her popular podcast. Here is Amanda Abella.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amanda Abella, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Amanda Abella:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got to hang out and get to know each other recently at the Statement event in upstate New York. That was awesome.

Amanda Abella:
It was so much fun. I needed that so bad. You have no idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think we all did. I learned a lot about you. I mean you do all the things Amanda. All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah all the things, literally all the things. I like my money coming from different places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, multiple revenue streams, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, your bestselling book is Make Money or Honey. And you also have an amazing social media feed that we were all gushing over at the retreat, especially your Insta Stories. You also are an influencer, you even have a course on how to be an influencer and you're a brand ambassador.

Amanda Abella:
Yup I literally do all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. What happened with me was you know I graduated during the recession and I just kind of learned really early on to always have your money coming from different places and then I was a recruiter for two years and I interviewed people who lost their jobs all the time. So I was like you always need to have multiple sources of income because if one thing doesn't work out like you get fired, well you still have money coming in from this other place so it started as a survival mechanism and now it's just a wealth building strategy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wise words my friend. And one of your multiple income streams that is growing is your brand ambassador business. And that brings us to your money story that has to do with a big new client that almost wasn't as big as you wanted it to be. Tell us.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so what happened there was I started getting approached a lot more for brand ambassador work. And first of all I had no idea how much money you could make doing this stuff because I was just having so much fun. I didn't know what the market rates were. I didn't know how to negotiate these situations. I didn't know anything about the contracts. But I started getting approached for this kind of work. So I went to go find myself an agent because I was like I need help. And the agent trained me a little bit on what to do in the meetings and all those kinds of things. And we were negotiating with this really big client. It was the first time I was going to do something of that magnitude and we were trying to figure out my rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of business was the client in? Can you tell us anything about it?

Amanda Abella:
Financial software.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Amanda Abella:
So we were trying to figure out my rate sheet for all the different deliverables and things like that because that's how green I was right, like I didn't even have a rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of deliverables would be on the rate sheet?

Amanda Abella:
You know media appearances, social media posts, blog posts, e-mail blasts, Twitter chats, all that type of stuff, all the different things that they ask you to do. I was so green I didn't even have a rate sheet for these things. And we were trying to figure that out at the same time while negotiating with this particular client.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you even start? Is there some kind of a standard place you can go and get that information?

Amanda Abella:
So what really helped me was asking a lot of my friends who were already doing that kind of work. And that's actually how I found out that for many years I have been low balling myself just because I didn't know, like I had no idea. I had no idea I could get paid what they were getting paid and then also one of those friends is the one who connected me with my agent and my agent who has been doing this for a very long time she kind of schooled me on how much money I was leaving on the table. So that was really helpful for me too. So that's how I found out personally.

Amanda Abella:
So what was going on was when we were trying to figure out the rate sheet we were trying to figure out the numbers and I went pretty high on this client to the point where my agent who you know she was doing her job. She's coming from many years of experience was like are you sure you want to do that because you're still pretty green, like do you want to go that high. And I thought to myself well you know what I may be green in terms of working on these big campaigns but I've got plenty of years of blogging experience. I have a pretty big social media following, they're pretty engaged. I'm bilingual. You know I bring things to the table that they need. So let's just go high and see what happens. She agreed. So we went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Amanda Abella:
Not even one peep, not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
So but here is the question Amanda. Knowing what you know now would you have gone higher?

Amanda Abella:
Well I was already pretty high for me. I mean my agent was to the point where she was like congratulations you just gave yourself a bonus of thousands of dollars for this kind of work. Good job negotiating that one. So I thought about that and for this particular client no because that was already super high for me to begin with. But-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much of a percentage higher was it than you kind of thought you were getting or that you were getting before?

Amanda Abella:
It was way more than double. It was like six or seven times more what I was getting previously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. OK. I'm sorry go on.

Amanda Abella:
So then having learned from that experience which was also my first experience like being in those meetings with an agent and learning those sort of nuances when you're in those situations with PR teams and things like that it was definitely a real lesson and you know confidence sells. Number one. And number two, fake it till you make it if you have to.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually came, you weren't really faking it because it sounds like when you went to them you had very specific reasons why you were worth what you were asking.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah but it doesn't mean I wasn't nervous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Amanda Abella:
I think people think that you walk into these situations and you're like fearless and you're not, you're just pretending not to be fearless which is where the confidence comes in. But you're right I did have specific experience and specific angles and specific things that I knew they wanted for this specific campaign and I definitely used it to my advantage. And like I said my agent agreed. So you know on the mere fact that I was bilingual I can get more money just because I'm bilingual and living in a city like Miami where everybody is bilingual I forget that that's actually a really valuable asset that I could get paid a lot more money for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners who may not all be social media all stars and brand influencers, brand ambassadors, how can they apply this to their own lives?

Amanda Abella:
I think it's realizing that there is a lot of talk about the influence that you have in the social media numbers. They're really not that important. One of the things my students tell me all the time is I had no idea that I could get that kind of work with 3000 followers on my Instagram feed or a thousand people on an email list. They all go into my program assuming that they need you know tens of thousands or 100000 followers to get really good brand partnerships and what they don't realize is that brand partnerships are looking more for unique angles and engagement more than they're looking for the actual numbers. Because I mean you could pay to get followers and brands know it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. I want to move on to your money tip because this one is going to be a huge hit with our listeners. I love it because you're going to spill some secrets for us. What's your money tip Amanda?

Amanda Abella:
So my secret is all about the rewards programs that restaurants are really bad at marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Therefore they are secrets, they're sort of open secrets that nobody knows about.

Amanda Abella:
So if you frequent certain places and certain restaurants, I've noticed it's definitely more with the chain restaurants. A lot of times they have apps and on those apps they have rewards programs or loyalty programs or referral programs. So for example I go to a specific juice bar pretty often after I work out. I learned recently that they had an app where I could get like 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:10:13]after spending a certain amount or if I refer friends I get three dollars off my next juice. I had no idea because they hadn't actually like said anything to me, I just happened to see a, I saw a little thing on the napkin holder and then a friend also told me he was like you don't know that they have an app.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so random.

Amanda Abella:
So my tip is not only to use the apps and find them but ask to see if they're even available because like I said they don't necessarily do a really good job of telling their customers that these things exist. Unless you're Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Starbucks is pretty aggressive about promoting their app. But other companies maybe not so. And if you take the time just like with so many of the money tips that we talk about here if you take the time to focus and learn about these programs, ask about them, you will benefit.

Amanda Abella:
Yep, it's all about asking.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's the best deal you've ever gotten through an app?

Amanda Abella:
Hmm well I'm getting 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:11:07]now. So that's pretty good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Pretty good.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah I'm kind of addicted to them to be honest so I would say that's the best one although I would say probably my best deals have been through the Soul Cycle app.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh OK.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I do Soul Cycle. You know if you sign up for like certain challenges, if you're working out already anyway, you sign up for certain challenges or certain themed rides or they'll have certain promotions going on. Like I walked in yesterday and they gave me like a bag of free stuff because I'm partaking in this certain challenge and I've been tracking it you know on the app and then once I get to a certain amount of rides which the app tracks then I get a free ride. So that's probably the one that has saved me the most money because Soul Cycle is not cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, can we just back up here because I really want to hear about the free stuff. What was in the free stuff bag from Soul Cycle?

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I got a bag. I got like a top to work out in. I got a water bottle. People just keep giving me water bottles lately, I have a whole collection of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah water bottles are, we got water bottles on the retreat.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. I was joking with my roommate I was like I lose one water bottle and require another four no matter-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know, I know. I am very excited about the Soul Cycle free stuff though. You have delivered, that alone Amanda, you scored. I want to talk about you because one of the things that happened on the retreat was you made a decision to pick something up that I loved. I loved your podcast and I'm so happy that you're going to bring it back.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so I'm bringing my podcast back after much deliberation and I really want to thank Statement and all the women who attended it and all the tips you gave me Bobbi because I've been studying your podcast since I got back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
I was like Bobbi is on point. Bobbi knows what she's doing. I'm going to take some notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
So I'm bringing my podcast back. It's coming back in July and it's going to alternate between solo episodes where I'm answering a lot of my audience questions about you know business, online marketing, negotiating, making money, all those types of things and then I'm also going to be bringing on a lot of guests so a lot of the women who were at the retreat have actually already signed up to be on the podcast so I'll be interviewing them. It will be a lot of fun and I'm trying to really bring as much diversity as I can to the conversation. So a lot of women, a lot of people of color. I'm Latina so that's something that really matters to me. One of the things I've heard so much from people is how sometimes it's hard for them to really relate to a lot of the mainstream financial advice that's out there because these people just you know either don't look like them or don't have the same experience as them. So I'm trying to bring as much diversity to the conversation as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you for that. I'm working on that here too. So I think we are hopefully on a good path with all that. Where can people find you, especially your Insta Stories which we're all obsessed with.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah my Insta Stories are a lot of fun. You guys can go watch me freak out over seeing snow for the first time on my Insta. Bobby was there for that. So you could go to Amanda Abella. That's my Twitter and my Instagram, I'm all over those all day long. You could also go to my Web site amandaabella.com or you could find my podcast, previous episodes of my podcast. So they're on iTunes, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Spotify, YouTube, just search make money or honey or my name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Amanda.

Amanda Abella:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take on what Amanda had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. Take a moment and write down the skills that you have that are unique, things you can use as leverage to get more money in a negotiation. So in Amanda's case one thing that she is is Latina, she's also bilingual. If you can't think of something, become something. Learn a skill that will set you apart from others. Invest in yourself in a specific intentional way that will give you a foundation to command higher compensation. Focus on the skills that are most in demand but still hard to find in your field.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talked about the fact that confidence sells and that you have to sell yourself. She did OK when she waited for businesses to come to her but her business really took off when she took control and became proactive. Find a way to appear confident even if you're having jitters inside like Amanda admits she sometimes does. If you need to just leave the room to gather your thoughts if you're getting nervous during a negotiation. Maybe do some power poses. Look up a TED talk by a woman named Amy Cuddy. I'll put it in the show notes and you will see what I mean. I've done it myself and it really works.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what story you want to share and what your everyday money tip would be if you are chosen. Thank you all for being part of our financial grownup community. If you enjoy the show consider leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts and of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1. Don't forget to DM me with your feedback about the show. I love hearing from everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show join the competition. Share the videos when you see them on social media. Retweet, repost and so on. You can even see them by the way on YouTube now. We will pick a winner by July 1st. So look for us to move forward in early July. Amanda is amazing. I'm excited for her podcast to come back so make sure to watch her social channels for updates on that. Great episode. And thank you Amanda for giving us the confidence to ask for what we deserve and sometimes even more than we think we can get. Helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

 

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. 

 

In Kristin’s money story you will learn:

-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising

-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work

-The price of the first piece of art she sold

-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism

-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism

-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist

-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media

-How you can buy art that is affordable

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills

-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create

-Pricing strategies for art

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money

-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand

-Where Kristin goes for her recipes

In My Take you will learn:

-How to buy art as an investment

-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly

-How to use social media to research and find art to buy

-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art

You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself. 

EPISODE LINKS

Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/

The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018

This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July. 

Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:

Mourlot editions

Wide Walls

Art Space

Paddle8.com

Also mentioned: RealSimple.com

Follow Kristin!

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks

Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.

Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.

Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?

Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.

Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?

Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.

Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.

Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?

Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.

Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind. 

In Kevin’s money story you will learn:

-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born

-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire

-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire

-Why he regrets taping the video

In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect

-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!

In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:

-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential

-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio

-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced. 

In my take you will learn:

-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present

-How to time your financial check ups

Episode Links

Building Bread

Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts

Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs

Follow Kevin

Twitter @buildingbread

Instagram @buildingbread

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/

Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com

 

 

Also mentioned

Phroogal

Jason Vitug

The Financial Gym

 

Kevin Matthews II promo for the Financial Grownup podcast with Bobbi Rebell.. Kevin shares his story of recording a video for his son, about 3 ways to make sure he became a millionaire, and how he cut it very close to missing the birth of his first son!

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.

Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?

Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.

Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?

Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.

Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.

Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.

Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Liz Thames and her husband adopted their dog Gracie they went on a spending bender buying up countless toys and treats for their new baby. But instead their precious pet taught them a lesson in values that helped shape the parents and family they became. 

In Liz’s money story you will learn:

-The story of how Liz and her husband adopted their first pet, Gracie

-The costs involved in adopting a dog

-How much money they spent before getting the dog, and what they bought

-How Gracie reacted to all the toys and treats

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to figure out what you really need to buy for your family

-How marketing can confuse us and create a false need

-The importance of waiting to find out what is truly needed during a life change, such as having a child

-How to fight back against a scarcity mindset

-Specific tips on how to be frugal like Liz, including using social media as a tool

In Liz’s money tip you will learn:

-How she was able to take yoga classes by bartering

-The specific language and approach if you want to barter with a business

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should consider selling your used baby products, especially big ticket items like strollers

-My personal story of selling my son’s stroller

-My take on pet insurance

Episode Links

Get Liz Thames Book Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. 

Learn more about Liz on her website Frugalwoods.com

Follow Liz!

Twitter @frugalwoods

Facebook Frugalwoods

Instagram Frugalwoods

---

Transcription

Bobbi:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message comes from Transfer Wise. The cheaper way to send money internationally. Transfer Wise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come up sending money abroad. Test it out for free at Transfer Wise.com slash podcast or download the app.

Liz:
We probably spent I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. So it was once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, [inaudible 00:01:02] and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone. Pet lovers this is especially for you and if you're like me, your pets are like your children. There's nothing you wouldn't do for them. But there are things that you shouldn't do for them including overspending. Liz Thames is the author of Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. And in fact many of her fans knew her only as Mrs. Frugalwoods until recently. But as you will learn Liz was not always as frugal as she is now. Here is Liz Thames, aka Mrs. Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz Thames aka Mrs. Frugalwoods, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Liz:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi:
And congratulations are in order for your new book, Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. Did I get that right?

Liz:
You did.

Bobbi:
Okay. All right. We're going to talk more about the book but I want to hear more about your life in Vermont and your money story which has to do with something near and dear to my heart which is of course our pets.

Liz:
Yes. A number of years ago my husband and I decided we were ready to adopt a dog. We had wanted a dog for years but we'd been renters and we had moved around a lot. I'd been in grad school. Not a good time to get a dog because when you get a dog, you need to think about who's going to care for them all day long. When you're moving around and you're renting an apartment and you're not home because you're in grad school and working full time in order to get free tuition. You don't really have the time to care for a pet. It was a big decision for us to finally come to that moment where we owned a home and we felt like we had the time and the money to dedicate to having a dog. We adopted a gray hound which is a rescue dog. It's a really frugal way to get a pet and it's also a wonderful way of giving a pet a new home.

Liz:
So, gray hounds are-

Bobbi:
By the way, there are some costs when you adopt a pet.

Liz:
Oh absolutely. Yes. There are ... It's like with children. There's just kind of the costs just keep on going but it's yes, so you do pay a fee when you adopt a dog. Then you need to think about their long term health care as well. One of the things that we thought when we first adopted our dog was that she needed everything. We had waited years to get this dog; we were going to lavish her with all of the wonderful dog things. We went to PetSmart and just cruised the aisles and bought you know "Oh we need this. We need this" like impulse shop for this dog and bought all these toys. All of these kongs. You know what those are? You put peanut butter in it.

Bobbi:
What's a kong?

Liz:
It's like this round thing that you put peanut butter or treats in and the dog-

Bobbi:
Are dogs supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
Purportedly they stick their snout in it and lick it out. I don't know. I have like four[crosstalk 00:04:04]

Bobbi:
Are they supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
I don't know. They told us she could.

Bobbi:
Okay.

Liz:
But our dog had zero use for all of this stuff. She looked at it and was like no thanks and took a red kitchen towel out of our kitchen and said, this is my toy and she decided that she really didn't need a lot in life and that was a great lesson for us. That we kind of had bought into this consumer notion that in order to be good dog parents, we needed to provide all of this stuff for her. When in reality all she needed was a safe, warm space and lots and lots of walks and play time outside. It was just so illuminating for us that uh wow, we really bought into this marketing trope of what it means to have a dog.

Bobbi:
It reminds me of when people buy all these toys for babies. Maybe toddlers let's say and then all the toddler wants to do is play in the box that the toys came in.

Liz:
Oh a 100 percent. Yes. My daughter the other day got in a box and was like, "It's a boat". "I'm sailing down the river". This is an empty cardboard box. Just like excellent. I am really glad you have that imagination and I'm really glad I didn't buy any toys for you.

Bobbi:
Totally. So how much do you think you spent on toys and unnecessary just stuff for your- what's your dog's name?

Liz:
Our dog was Gracie better known as frugal hound and she sadly passed away earlier this year.

Bobbi:
Oh. I'm so sorry.

Liz:
Thank you. But it's wonderful to talk about her and to realize sort of the important role that she had in our lives. She was our first child and she really taught us what we needed to know about parenting which is that you do not need to buy a ton of stuff. It's also true that we bought things preemptively before she was even part of our lives. We probably spent to your question I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. Once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
And it's interesting because you actually learned from Gracie how to not over prepare and buy in advance for your children, your human children, when they came along. In a way she taught you a good lesson in budget parenting.

Liz:
Really.

Bobbi:
So what is the lesson then for our listeners and how can this apply not just to pet owners but to everyone?

Liz:
We are surrounded almost every single day by messages that tell us we need more stuff. There is always something more to buy for whatever phase of life you're in. Whether you have pets or you have kids or you don't have either of those things but you have a great interest in hiking or rock climbing or whatever it might be. There will always be this huge list of things that we're told that we need. I think marketing really makes us feel as though we need to have those things in order to be happy and to be fulfilled to be able to do the things we want to do with our lives. What I've realized over the years is that there really is no way to buy happiness. There is no way to sort own everything that you need to own. As soon as you reach that point, you'll realize there's more stuff or you need newer stuff or bigger stuff.

Liz:
This applies to everything from houses and cars all the way down to the clothes that we wear and the food that we buy. I think when you can sort of step outside of that consumer carousel and really identify what it is that you actually need on a daily basis. You'll realize it's quite a bit less than we're told we need.

Bobbi:
You also it seems learned that you can wait. We live in such a culture of abundance here in the United States that had you waited to buy the dog toys and evaluated whether you need them, it's not like they wouldn't have been there. There's no fear that it won't be there if you don't buy in advance. The same thing applies to children and for ourselves. We don't necessarily need to stock up a head of time. We can almost like the stores now do with as needed inventory. We can almost act that way for ourselves.

Liz:
So true and I think we often have this scarcity mindset that we won't have an [inaudible 00:08:22] we won't be able to provide for kids or our pets or our families. When in reality, we probably have plenty and we probably can make do with what we already own. My other favorite thing to do is source things used. Used cars, used furniture, used stuff for my kids. You can save 50, 75 percent sometimes 90 percent off of what something would have originally cost just by getting it used. There are so many sources right now of used things. Craig's List of course everybody knows about. Buy nothing groups. Buy and sell groups on Facebook. Just talking with your neighbors and friends. Finding hand me downs. Of course finding fantastic things on the side of the road which I advise caution but really can be done to great effect.

Liz:
Essentially looking at ways to not buy new. This not only saves you money but is environmentally friendly. It takes away a lot of that paralysis by analysis that I get when I'm looking at Amazon and reading 500 reviews. Like, "I don't know which toddler sippy cup to buy". If you just get it used, you kind of remove all of that stress and time from your search.

Bobbi:
And for your money tip Liz you're going to help us all live healthier for less.

Liz:
Yes. It's often possible to exercise for free by bartering or trading with your exercise studio. When I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston, I volunteered at the front desk of my yoga studio in exchange for free yoga classes. This was something I didn't realize was possible until I tried to save as much as I could every month and realized I was spending tons and tons of money on yoga classes. I think it's easy for us to look at exercise and think, "Oh I'm happy to spend on that because it's a good thing". And it is a good thing but you can often do it for free and I've heard from readers who have accomplished this at Crossfit studios, Pilates, ballet just about any type of exercise that the studio is often looking for this opportunity to make a barter or a trade. I used to take out the trash, sweep the floors, work at the front desk. Free yoga.

Bobbi:
How much do you estimate you saved?

Liz:
Doing that it was thousands of dollars. It's another great example of how costs really compound over the course of a year. You might only be spending 50 dollars, a 100 dollars, 200 dollars a month on exercising but when you think about how much that is over the course of a year and how much that money could do for you if you instead invested it or used it in a wiser way. It really becomes pretty profound. When you start to apply this to every line item in your budget, then you really can start to see astronomical savings.

Bobbi:
How did you approach the yoga studio because a lot of people might say well that's great but that's kind of a weird conversation. To be a client there and just sort of say, "Oh can I take out the trash and go to yoga for free"? How did that actually happen?

Liz:
Fortunately for me they had a poster up that advertised this program and so I was able to just email the email address on the poster but I know that this type of work study program often exists in studios. You can just ask, "Do you have any type of work study program where I could volunteer in exchange for classes"? And if they say no nothing is lost. They've said no. If they say yes, fabulous. You've now got an opportunity to get free classes.

Bobbi:
All great. I love that idea. Tell us more about your book and where people can find you.

Liz:
The book is Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living and it is a memoir about the financial journey that essentially I've been on and that ultimately led me to living on a homestead in Vermont. You can find the book on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, at any local bookstore anywhere that books are sold.

Bobbi:
And where can people find you? Social media, website all that good stuff?

Liz:
Sure. So it's all Frugalwoods across the board. My website is: Frugalwoods.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz you are wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us.

Liz:
Oh thank you for having me.

Bobbi:
Okay everyone. Liz totally delivered in this episode especially with taking the lessons from buying habits with Gracie and then taking those lessons and applying them when she became a parent to humans. Financial grownup tip number one. Liz talked about buying used stuff for your kid. Don't forget to sell stuff. For example, we were gifted an incredible and very pricey stroller when my son was born. We kept it in good shape and when he outgrew it, we posted it in a Facebook group and we were able to sell it to a local person for more than half the original cost which was still several hundred dollars. It pays off. Financial grownup tip number two. A word about pets. They are expensive. While you can easily avoid luxury pet wardrobes if that's your thing, that's fine but you can avoid it. It's a choice.

Bobbi:
You cannot neglect their health. Make sure you have a very big budget for that. I can take my Morkie in for a checkup and a routine vaccine and walk out with a very large bill. I also want to talk about pet insurance. It is also very expensive and can be limited in its coverage. In many cases it is not something that makes financial sense if you do the math. My family decided to have it for our Morkie for one reason. We never wanted to make a health decision about her after consulting our bank account.

Bobbi:
Pet health care expenses when they do need care beyond the routine, can put owners in a very tough positions. You may be asked to pay let's say a 1000 dollars for a bunch of tests. How do you say no? Then the tests show the pet needs a procedure; another bill. Then therapy and so on. It adds up and our pets are priceless but our money is finite. At a certain point you could be put in the position of saying, "Is so many more months worth this many more dollars"? Well the answer is usually going to be yes because we're human and we love our pets. The reality is that decision could very easily derail other financial needs, obligations and plans.

Bobbi:
If you get a pet, research pet insurance and make an informed decision. It is expensive. Usually it's only affordable if you get it when your pet is young. It's worth being proactive early on.

Bobbi:
All right. If you have not heard yet, I am very excited about this. We are going to start having one guest a month. Be a listener. If you want to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what money story and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. If you have not already, please subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am at Bobbi Rebell at Twitter, on Instagram I am at Bobbi Rebell1 and go to BobbiRebell.com forward slash financial grownup podcast to learn more about the show and to sign up for mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show.

Bobbi:
I hope that you enjoyed Liz's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Kristin Wong laughs about it now but she literally cried and wanted to drown her sorrows at TGI Fridays when an unexpected tax bill hit her out of the blue. She fesses up to Bobbi that it never occurred to her that she would not get a refund. Ironically, her money tip is one for the budget conscious foodie in all of us. 

In Kristin Wong’s money story you will learn:

-Why she did not pay her taxes when she started freelance writing

-How your tax responsibilities change when you switch from being an employee to being self-employed

-Why she owed money instead of getting her usual refund

-The benefits of having an emergency fund

-The emotional toll it took on Kristin

 

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big mistake Kristin made regarding money when she became a freelancer

-Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to taxes

-Kristin’s tips for managing major work changes

-How to find free resources online to manage and pay your taxes

-How to know when you need a professional for your taxes

 

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-The high/low method for restaurant spending

-The most expensive/biggest splurge meal Kristin has had

In my take you will learn:

-What happens if you send in your tax returns without payment

-What to do if you do not have the money to pay your taxes on April 17th

-Strategies to use when you set up a payment plan with the IRS

-Why you should avoid paying your taxes with a credit card

 

Episode links

Pickup your copy of Kristin Wong’s new book Get Money

The book website is at: https://thegetmoneybook.com/

Get Kristin’s downloadable worksheets at https://thegetmoneybook.com/worksheets/

Kristin Wong’s website is https://www.thewildwong.com/

Follow Kristin!

Facebook- (and join her private facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/thewildwong/

Twitter @thewildwong

Instagram: @thewildwong

Pinterest thewildwong

YouTube The Wild Wong

Other links:

IRS.Gov

TurboTax.com

Vanguard.com

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-if-i-cant-pay-my-taxes

https://www.irs.gov/payments/direct-pay

Cary Carbonaro

Stefanie O’Connell

Holly Hanson

Get Rich Slowly

JD Roth

---

Transcription

Kristin Wong:
So, I just cried. My now husband, who was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Fridays.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of "How to be a Financial Grownup", and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you and make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, spoiler alert, our guest Kristin Wong author of "Get Money" was crying because of something that happened to her at tax time. And I thought this would be a great time to hear her story about the time she, oops, forgot to pay her taxes. So her book, as I mentioned is called, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." It makes learning about money feel like a game, which she really could have used her own book at this time because it was not a fun time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've probably read Kristin's work in the New York Times, New York Magazine, Glamour, Life Hacker. Kristin got her start as a money writer at the fantastic blog, "Get Rich Slowly." This is a story you need to hear, especially right now at tax time. Here is Kristin Wong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Wong. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the show.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you for having me on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am loving your new book, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." Full disclosure, I'm only about two thirds of the way through, but I will be finishing it very soon. Great job.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's not easy to say something new in this space and you really did it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. And I've been writing about money for so long that it was kind of hard to say something new. So I really had to think about it for ... I had to take myself out of the money geek persona.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're not a geek. You're the cool money nerd.

Kristin Wong:
All right. I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're the cool friend, talking about money and we have cool stuff to talk about. Your money tip is super cool, but before we do your money tip and that's a teaser for all the foodies out there, we're going to do your money story, which is so appropriate, because this is going to come out in April, which is our favorite month. Not. Because we talk about taxes and your money story is about the fun world of taxes. Tell us, Kristin.

Kristin Wong:
Oh man, I have a crazy tax story. When I first started freelancing six or seven years ago, I was full time freelancing and everything was going fine. I wasn't making that much money because I was new at it. I had no idea that you had to pay estimated quarterly taxes. It's just not something that I paid attention to. I was so used to having an employer take out taxes for me. So in April I decided to do my taxes, which usually I liked doing taxes because-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you were probably getting refunds. You were getting refunds when you worked for an employer.

Kristin Wong:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this was the time you would be getting like a bonus.

Kristin Wong:
Right. So I was looking forward to all this money coming in, thinking what I was going to do with it. But nope. I had a $5000 tax bill. And some of it was penalties but it was mostly, I hadn't paid any of my taxes. And the fact that my taxes were only $5000 should tell you that I wasn't making that much. I had an emergency fund, thankfully and it just depleted my emergency fund.

Kristin Wong:
I remember, I had just moved to Los Angeles and I was proud of myself for finding a job here and I was a writer and I was making it at work, and I had an apartment, and I just remember-

Bobbi Rebell:
You were very grown up except for one thing.

Kristin Wong:
Except for the taxes. Well I just cried. I remember it was a Friday night-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you just literally cry? You actually cried?

Kristin Wong:
I cried. I did because it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there witnesses?

Kristin Wong:
My now husband, was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Friday that night.

Bobbi Rebell:
And spend more money.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. I was like, I want to do it. Let's go to TGIF Friday.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you have everyone helping you? Did you just go to a tax preparer? What happened?

Kristin Wong:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
How was this all discovered?

Kristin Wong:
I just wasn't prepared at all for it. I thought, you know I've always been when of those type of people, I'll just say yeas and figure it out later. And that can definitely work in my favor, but this time it did not. I was unprepared for the freelance life and the massive change. Like how different it is financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so let's talk about the lessons. What are the lessons, besides know whether you're paying taxes or not.

Kristin Wong:
Right. I'd say the lesson is just don't ignore money. Like I just ignored what it took to be a freelancer financially and I ignored all of that. And I think a lot of people do that. We don't like to think about money. We don't want to figure out the practical side of things. So we just kind of sweep it under the rug. I think a lot of people even take it further. They don't look at their budget or they don't look at their credit card statements, and that really was a game-changer for me because this was pre-writing about money days.

Kristin Wong:
But I really realized, nobody is going to care abut your finances. Nobody's going to hold your hand and walk you through it. And if you don't take care of it the somebody else will. Well if you don't care of your money somebody else -

Bobbi Rebell:
Somebody else will take it, somehow.

Kristin Wong:
They'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
It there like a checklist of things? So number one would be, be aware of taxes that you may owe. And if you're just starting out the truth is, you may earn so little money that you, especially with the new tax system, under a certain amount you may not even owe taxes. But you just need to figure out if you do.

Kristin Wong:
Right. And I would say, if you're going through a major work change like that, where your status is changing from full time to freelance, if you can afford it, go to a tax preparer and have them kind of walk you through the process. But at the very least, always research what your financial situation is going to look like if you have a major life change, especially when it comes to taxes. There are a lot of free resources on line, but I would say if you can afford it you certainly want to go to a professional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there some resources you can recommend?

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. The IRS.gov website is actually pretty great. They have a lot of resources for freelancers and independent contractors and that sort of thing. And Turbo Tax, their website actually has a lot of useful information. So I would check out those two resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go to the money tip because I teased it a little bit earlier. I love this Kristin. This is one for the foodies.

Kristin Wong:
Yes, so it is ... My money tip is the high, low method for restaurant spending. And I actually read this tip from a restaurant critic on line. And he or she, I don't remember, this was a long time ago, basically said don't go to any middle of the road restaurants. Save your budget. Spend it mostly on hole-in-wall, cheaper restaurants because they are usually mom and pop owned and the food is really good and they stay in business because the food is really good.

Kristin Wong:
You're going to save money going to those cheaper restaurants and then use that to splurge every now and then on a really high-end, nice restaurant that's known for their cuisine. So his or her tip was, basically just avoid any middle of the road restaurants. And so if you are going to go out six times a month on restaurants, go to the cheaper places five times and then save your sixth splurge restaurant meal for a nicer high end restaurant.

Kristin Wong:
The idea is, those middle of the road restaurants ... I mean there are some exceptions to this. This is a generalization, but they're usually like, the food is very mediocre, and your not getting the most bank for your buck.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Kristin Wong:
But you will get the most value from the high, low method.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And you're usually just avoiding cooking at home because you just don't feel like it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, let me ask you ... So you talk about splurge. What is the most you've ever spent on one meal out, Kristen?

Kristin Wong:
Oh my gosh. I've told this story before but I ... I still I feel guilty about this but I spenT $40 on a steak once. And I don't know what I was thinking. I think that I had been ... My lifestyle-

Bobbi Rebell:
So the entrée was $40? The entrée. But that's not that bad.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Obviously there were other things to the whole meal.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you think the whole meal cost you, then?

Kristin Wong:
I was with a friend so we split it. But it was probably like $50, $60 for one person. And I had never spent that kind of money before. That's the thing. I grew up in a lower income household so $40 on steak. If my parent found out about that, they would slap me silly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You haven't spent that much time in New York City, but maybe that's a good thing. New York City is not very budget-friendly. All right. We are never going out for steaks together. We are going to have some plain, simple coffee.

Kristin Wong:
I like the steaks, though.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Maybe we'll make steaks at home. That sounds like a good plan. All right. Thank you so much. I want to talk about your book quickly before I let you go. "Get Money." This is a good book. It is a paperback. I now carry it with me because it's like little nuggets of money tips and little things like what you just said about the restaurants. So many brilliant musings on money. Tell us a little bit more about it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. Well, it's a very actionable and interactive book so there area lot of exercises and there are a lot of assignments in it. You have to do work when you're reading it, so I would read it with a pen or pencil in hand. You can also go on line. There is an accompanying website to the book, called Thegetmoneybbok.com or you can find worksheets in like video tutorials for it, because I think sometimes with these money concepts, somebody tells you how to open a retirement account.

Kristin Wong:
And you're like, okay that sounds well and good when I'm reading it but when I go to the Vanguard website I have no idea how to get started. So I actually show you in some video tutorials exactly what you need to do to get started, so you have no excuse not to get your money in order.

Bobbi Rebell:
And there's a lot of value out of this book, because you quote so many of my favorite people, Cary Carbonaro. You quote Stephanie O'Connell, Holly Hansen, so many brilliant money minds are in here. It's great, so congratulations on the book. Where can people find you and what else are you up to?

Kristin Wong:
I am at the WildWong.com, is my website and all my social media handles. And I just sort of write about, of course personal fiance, but also resources for freelancers and that sort of thing too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. And your background, by the way is so cool. You were a movie writer, a TV writer. So interesting.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, how did you fall into the money stuff?

Kristin Wong:
Well I was actually writing full time freelance for about dating and relationships when I started writing about money. I actually started writing at "Get Rich Slowly', J.D. Roth's blog. I have always been fascinated with money. That's a longer story. But I would read his blog every morning and then one day he said that he was hiring writers, so I just applied to be a freelance writer and I started kind of blogging about ...

Kristin Wong:
Like I would write essays about my own dysfunctional relationship with money and I really just, I figured out how to get money through just writing about it for five years. So I wanted to share that knowledge with other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we appreciate it. Kristin Wong, thank you so much.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much as we hate to deal with it, taxes are a reality of being a financial grownup. Here's the thing. Kristin was able to contain the damage of not filing quarterly taxes as a freelancer because she had the cash in an emergency fund. So great. There were some consequences, but all things considered, Kristin made the problem go away. In reality that is not always the case. In fact, I'm going to bet, very often it's not the case, so what do you do if you don't have the cash?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, first of all, financial grownup tip number one. No matter what, you still have to file the paperwork on time. Now you can file an extension if you just want to procrastinate and not even figure out what you owe. But you got to figure out some kind of idea, because they're going to start penalizing you and you're going to be paying interest on what you owe. So when you do pay it, it's going to be so much more.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money is due April 17th. Now, as Kristin said, the IRS.gov website can very easily walk you through all of this. They even have an IRS direct pay area of the website, where you can easily pay tax estimates. I'm going to leave a link to that in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Okay, let's say you literally do not have the cash. You need to get in touch with the IRS and you need to get on a payment plan. They can even give you extensions if you literally don't have the ability to pay anything right now. I'm going to give you a phone number to the IRS. 1-800-829-1040. 1-800-829-1040. Call them up, They will work out a plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be nice. The whole point is you're talking to a human being. You can be reasonable. They want to get their money and they want to get it consistently in a way that you're going to be able pay. So they're going to be flexible. In fact, they can often waive the penalties. Not only the interest on the money you owe, but the penalties. So ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do not recommend putting it on a credit card. In almost every case, unless you hae a 0 interest credit card, in almost every case the IRS, even with penalties will be less than the interest on a credit card. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and consider writing a review on Apple Piecasts, aka iTunes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It helps the show get discovered so we can share more money stories and tips and be in touch. On Twitter, I'm @BobbiRebell. On Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. And to learn more about the program and to get on our mailing list for bonus content and more go to BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGownuppodcast. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with writer and money expert Kristin Wong. Get her book, "Get Money" and here's to us all getting always bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach. 

 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn

-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money

-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing

-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors

-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets

-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors

-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective

-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy

-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company

-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round

In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:

-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors

-How she got help from other entrepreneurs

-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark

-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important

-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company

In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:

-Negotiations can be about more than just cash

-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.

-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them

In my take you will learn:

-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture

-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches

-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful. 

Episode links:

TheMuse.com

Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work

Follow Kathryn and The Muse!

Instagram @kminshew @themuse

Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules

Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse

https://www.facebook.com/minshew

Kathryn Minshew, Co-Founder and CEO of The Muse shares her rebound from 148 investor rejections to eventually raising $30 million for her startup. Listen to her episode of the Financial Grownup podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast-- Created using PowToon -- Free sign up at http://www.powtoon.com/youtube/ -- Create animated videos and animated presentations for free.

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Transcription

Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?

Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.

Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.

Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.

Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.

Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?

Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?

Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.

Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.

Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.

Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.

Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.

Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. 

In Stefanie’s story you will learn:

-The challenges of her seven years as a professional actress

-How the recession left her unemployed half way around the world

-The harsh financial realities of the entertainment business

-The creative ways Stefanie handled her finances, including roommates, while she traveled as an actress

-Her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want

-Why she pivoted to become a personal finance expert

-The tools she uses to manager her own money

-How to build a lifestyle you love while still following your passion

-The two big fairytales she says millennials need to get over

-Her take on how the financial challenges millennials face are different from previous generations

In Stefanie’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to own your income potential

-Ways to build your skill sets and find new market opportunities

-How to maximize income growth

-How to transition your passion skill set into one that is also profitable

 

In Stefanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her online shopping strategy

-How she uses online cash back portals like ebates

-The savings you can get from browser extensions like Honey that automatically search for coupons and promo codes

-Ways to stack your savings using cash back credit cards

In my take you will learn:

-Why I believe passions should usually not be connected to income

-The benefits of taking the pressure off earning money from your passion

-The danger of having unrealistic expectations from side hustles

-Strategies to own your future by going beyond your credentials like academic accomplishments

 

Episode links:

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Ebates

Honey

 

You can find Stefanie at:

Stefanie O’Connell.com

Get Stefanie’s free Cash Confidence challenge  

Sign up for Stefanie’s All In DIY class!

Stefanie’s facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/661192974055824/

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Instagram @stefanieoconnell

Twitter @stefanieoconnell

Facebook: Stefanie OConnell

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn about Stefanie's challenges of her seven years as a professional actress, her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want, and how to maximize income growth. #Income #LifeLessons #Author

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Transcription

Stefanie OC:
The reality hit me that this pursuit of my "passion" that everyone says, that isn't always the case because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be Financial Grown Up. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. How many of you have been told, "Follow your dreams. The money will come. Just trust in yourself?" In most cases, you were lied to. Former struggling actress turned millennial finance expert Stefanie O'Connell is here to set you straight. She is also the author of The Broke and The Beautiful book, and she also has a thriving community over at her website, stefanieoconnell.com. I love her story because it will put you on a path to prosperity and, hopefully, more happiness doing what you really are passionate about when you're not earning money. Here is Stefanie O'Connell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie O'Connell, author of The Broke and Beautiful Life and millennial money expert, you're a financial grown up and welcome to the program.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to congratulate you on your new venture, All In. Tell us about it.

Stefanie OC:
Oh, it is a course specifically designed for millennial women who want to feel as confident with their money, as they do in the rest of their lives. I know too many women who are really successful in their careers, really successful in their personal relationships, and all these different facets of their lifestyle, but when it comes to their money, they feel really out of control, so I built this 10-module step-by-step blueprint to help those ambitious women match their cash competence with their lifestyle ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect, and we will put a link to where you can find that more in the show notes. I want to get right to your story because it's so relatable and it's something that is so relevant to young people figuring out where they want to put their energy and where they want to earn their money. Tell us your money story, Ms. Stefanie.

Stefanie OC:
Okay. I'm going to try to keep it concise here. It's been a bit of a journey. But, essentially, it started in college when I decided I was going to pursue acting professionally. Now, I did get a degree in psychology as well as like backup plan, my responsible, quote unquote backup plan, but the plan was to be a professional actress and, believe it or not, I was. I actually was for seven years a professional actress, but it was extremely difficult, primarily because I worked in theater, not film, so the paydays are not the same.

Stefanie OC:
I also graduated in 2008, which was the year of the recession. So even though I got a great job right out of school on like a dream tour of Asia, understudying one of my professional musical theater idols, the producers flew out about halfway through the tour, and there were, like, "Oh, you know, there was a global recession. We're going to send you all home." [inaudible 00:03:22]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like that?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah just like that, so my bubble just got-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you basically got laid off in the middle of the world, in the middle of nowhere.

Stefanie OC:
As a actress, which is the most ... it's the first thing to go, right? Entertainment budget, especially for something like live theater that's really expensive is the first thing people cut out. So the industry was really in bad shape and the first job offer I got after was to play three leading roles in three musicals for $225 a week. And I was like, "Okay, that is not sustainable. Yeah. This is my profession it is how I support myself." So I had to turn it down. And for the next five or six years after that I kept coming up against this reality of okay, I'm doing what I love, but it's not paying the bills. It's not sustainable, it's not consistent, when I do get work it's a huge win if I'm making $500 a week, I live in New York city. That is not enough money to sustain even a very basic lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, how were you living? Did you have roommates? What was going on there?

Stefanie OC:
Oh yeah. So I've always had roommates. I've never not had roommates, so I'm 31 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Including now.

Stefanie OC:
Including now. I live my boyfriend now, so it's a little different.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good kind of roommate.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah it's a better kind of roommate situation. And then I also sublet my apartment a lot. So one of the things about being an actor is I was on the road a lot, so I was able to sublet my apartment so I didn't have the expense of rent which was a savior for me. And so even if I wasn't making a ton of money, maybe two, three hundred dollars a week, if I didn't have a $1500 a month cost of rent that made it a lot more sustainable to pursue it. That said, I would come home at the end of my contracts and still need to pay rent.

Stefanie OC:
So it just didn't work. The numbers didn't add up. And so what happened for me was there was just this huge sense of frustration and the reality hit me that this pursuit of my passion, quote unquote, that everyone says if you do that everything will work itself out, just that isn't always the case when it comes to your money. Because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living. There are other goals you have, there are the trips you want to take, there are the weddings you want to have, there are the children and family you want to start, there's the house you want to buy. And that costs money. And I had this realization that if I continued doing what I was doing I was never going to create enough capital through acting, through this pursuit of my passion to do all these things that I cared about in the rest of my life.

Stefanie OC:
And so I really started digging into personal finance because I wanted to understand, okay, how do I take the little money I have and maximize it and then step two, how do I bring more in? So that I have more to maximize and that really set me on this journey of personal transformation to owning my own cash confidence, as I like to call it, through tracking my spending, through earning more, through learning to invest, through saving and tracking that all on my blog at stefanieoconnell.com and then finding a community of other people in similar situations, millennials working through the recession who were really taught do what they love and are facing this reality of, well what if that doesn't pay the bills? And how do I still build a lifestyle I love, even if it's not necessarily the way I thought it was going to look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you and lot of millennials were sold this fairytale that if you follow your passion the money will come?

Stefanie OC:
Absolutely. I think there are two big fairytales. That one and then the second one is if you get a college degree you're set for life. Because I think you know, for my parents for example, they graduated college, they did get their MBAs, but from there it was smooth sailing right from graduation to retirement. There was great salaries, there were income increases, there was healthcare, there was retirement benefits. I've never had any of those things. I've never had employer sponsored health care, I've never had a 401K plan. So it's so much more, even if you're not necessarily pursuing your passion, even if you're just trying to make a living, for so many young people today there isn't that inbuilt infrastructure that takes your hand and paves the way for you from graduation to retirement.

Stefanie OC:
So much of the onus now is on the individual, and that's why I really started writing about this stuff, because I found that so much of the personal space was like, "Contribute to your 401K." And meanwhile, I'm surrounded by people who've never even had the opportunity to have access to a 401K. So that's why I write about what I write about.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right so you are 31 years old now. What is the lesson from that journey, for our listeners?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah, so for me the biggest lesson is that you are the primary driver of your own income potential. I think we have this idea that our degree or our experience or our skills or our lack of any of those things is what dictates what opportunities are available to us, but the reality is it's us. It's our willingness to continue putting ourselves out there, building our skillsets, finding new market opportunities and really putting ourselves in the drivers seat of our own earning potential that really leads to maximal income growth. And I think that it's so important because we too often make excuses for ourselves for why a six figure salary is not available to us or why a one million dollar net worth is not available to us.

Stefanie OC:
And we have to [inaudible 00:09:04] ownership of those things, before we can start making progress to actually achieving them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it may not be in the glam career that you envision, that may be a side thing.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah. And the other thing is I think there's this all or nothing mentality that's really destructive. I'm not professionally acting anymore, but I love what I do. And one of the big things I do is I give talks, I go on camera a lot, I do a lot of media appearances and I feel like I get to use that skillset from acting that I so enjoyed [inaudible 00:09:36] performance all the time, but now I get paid ten, 20, 30 times what I used to make. But the fact is I would have never found this outlet if I had never pivoted temporarily to something a little less glamorous like freelance writing and blogging about money. Right?

Stefanie OC:
So we have to remember that it's not like you're abandoning this thing forever, it's just about trying a new approach so that you can have a lifestyle you love and not just a career you love.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something specific and actionable that everyone can do right now.

Stefanie OC:
Okay, so this one is a little bit more simple, a really quick win that you [crosstalk 00:10:15]-

Bobbi Rebell:
We love simple.

Stefanie OC:
Can start with right now.

Stefanie OC:
There's a lot of shopping online, I personally do most of my shopping online because anytime I walk into a retail environment it's a 20 minute wait, it drives me crazy. So one of the ways I save, I have different ways of doing my shopping. So I will sometimes go through an online cash back portal, like an Ebates, where if you go through their portal first and then select the retailer you can get one or two or three or four percent cashback on all of your purchases. And then also downloading a browser extension like Honey that automatically searches for coupons and promo codes for you. And applies them to your order without you even having to go open up 20 tabs and search for promo codes.

Stefanie OC:
And then you can stack your savings even further by using a cash back credit card. So you know, get one percent or [inaudible 00:11:10] percent cash back on all purchases on your credit card, plus the promo code, plus the cash back from shopping through something like Ebates, you're really stacking your savings for immediate wins on all your purchases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice, Stefanie O'Connell, millennial money expert, thank you so much.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends, here is my take on what Stefanie had to say. Financial grown up tip number one, detach your passion from your income. We all spend a lot of time at our paying jobs and businesses so obviously you don't want to pick something that you don't like and you can't stand. You want to be happy, you're putting a lot of time in there, but that may not be your passion. Focus on earning the income you need to be happy in life and maybe pursue that passion on the side. It could be a side hustle, it could just be a hobby. Take the pressure off trying to earn a living at your passion. You may actually find yourself enjoying it more without the pressure to create income from that passion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, don't sit on your laurels just because you got a college degree. It matters a lot, but for the most part after your first job it's going to come down to you and how hard and how smart you work. As Stefanie said so well, you have to have ownership of your own future. Don't just show up at your job, really show up. Be present, try hard, do extra things that are beyond the exact job duties. Impress your boss, learn new skills. A degree is only one piece of the puzzle, you have to fill in the rest by earning it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right thank you all for your support of the podcast, I love hearing your feedback and I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. Please also follow me on social media. I'm @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and of course, go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Stefanie O'Connell's story and her advice. I think she's terrific. Check out her website, as I said, stefanieoconnell.com, and I hope we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.