Talking Fintok, Robinhood, crypto, meme stocks and getting social with your investing habits with the founders of community investing platform Alinea

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids, and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends, and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super-important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Anam Lakhani:
Investing is such a social habit. I think that's what's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single-player mode, but the reason we're seeing this phenomenon FinTok, which is financial TikTok. And really finance coming in to social media, is because people want to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard, but together, we got this. Okay, my friends. Who here has an investing playlist? You might be inspired to put one together and maybe get some friends into it as well after listening to this episode. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani founded Alinea with a focus on portfolios, which they call playlists. Their app is all about community and education, right down to the much more calming color palette that they have, compared to the jarring bright reds and greens that we see on more of the old-school investing apps. In our interview, the Alinea founders share how they came up with the ideas behind the app that led to them raising a couple million dollars right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, some unique investing tips to get you started or give you a few new ideas to upgrade your investing playlist, AKA portfolio. One highlight to listen for in our interview, their reference to Warren Buffett and how his ideas apply more than ever to today's investor and to the Alinea community. We also get their thoughts on the crypto market, and how to approach that these days as well. No worries as usual about taking notes, we'll have the full transcript for you with the show notes. Here are Alinea founders, Eve Halimi, and Anam Lakhani. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani, you are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before we get started, I forgot to tell you guys this. Whenever we have two guests, I do have each person say hello and their name, so our listeners can tell who is talking at each time. So Eve, say hello.

Eve Halimi:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Eve. All right. Anam, say hello.

Anam Lakhani:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the launch of Alinea. You guys are 25 years old. You're getting a ton of press coverage already. I love this Business Insider headline, the Gen Z founders of Alinea. You raised $2.1 million for your anti-Robin Hood investing app. First of all, do you agree with the headline that you are an anti-Robin Hood investing app? And then tell us more about that. The whole $2 million thing.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think more than anti-Robin Hood, we're anti-day trading. We're anti-having just exclusivity within the investing and financial world. And with Alinea, we're really hoping to bring in a larger demographic, a more inclusive and younger demographic, to the financial world so they can start achieving financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Eve, you guys are so young, and you're both women. We hear so much about how much funding goes to men. Certainly sometimes more seasoned men. How did you guys raise 2 million at this age? Because so many people have aspirational, entrepreneurial ideas, and it's not easy.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah, it was definitely difficult. It was a lot of work, but I mean, when you're so passionate about something and you are so determined and you move fast, you will find the right investors who will back you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Eve Halimi:
We went through Y Combinator. So applying through YC, getting in, which is an incredibly competitive incubator, puts you at an edge and gives you an edge, essentially, when you're fundraising. So investors know you have a stamp of credibility at that time and at that point, which is very helpful for a young entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Anam, how did you guys even get this idea and come together with it? Were you watching apps like Robin Hood? And I don't mean to call them out. I'm just alluding to that Business Insider headline.

Eve Halimi:
We can call them out. We can call them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, you guys do that.

Anam Lakhani:
It's a great story. So we had come together our fall semester of senior year, and we had returned from these internships on Wall Street. We were both studying economics, and there was this big elephant in the room. We didn't know how to invest our own money. We saw this problem with our friends across both genders, honestly. There was definitely a bit of a confidence gap between those two genders, but we saw that there's this huge problem. And it really fundamentally boils down to two things. It's community and education. So there's a lack of community. If you don't know where to start, investing is such a social habit.

Anam Lakhani:
I think that's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single player mode. But the reason we're seeing this phenomenon, FinTok, which is financial TikTok, and really finance coming into social media is because people want to talk about it. And they always have. And the second component is education. Only 14 states in the United States mandate personal finance classes in high school. And even being at Columbia University, studying economics, we still didn't have that personal finance knowledge. So those were two things we wanted to tackle to really make investing more inclusive and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I noticed is that even during the pandemic, people were craving that social interaction. There was a lot of discussion of stocks, like meme stocks on places like Reddit and obviously TikTok, with FinTok and MoneyTok. People are craving that social interaction, but it can also be dangerous. So it's interesting that you guys have a place where maybe there could be more vetted conversations with people that are not necessarily, well, sometimes you don't know what people's motives are. But there's a lot of people that got sucked into a gamification of investing, rather than having your peers as a support system in the way that you set up the app. And obviously, I am alluding to the gamification that we see in places like Robin Hood. Can you talk a little bit about the way that your app, that Alinea is set up, and how you avoid gamification and yet support community?

Anam Lakhani:
We really think about it as this long-term journey you're on. It's like your fitness journey. If you're going to the gym, you have a gym buddy, you're talking to your friends about it. You have a community where you often go to, and that's so prevalent with fitness. And we wanted to really foster and create this community where it's not just about making the next buck as quickly as possible, but really being consistent and staying on this path. And so everything from the design of the app, to our messaging, to really our values as a brand and a community boil down to that. This is not something that you're going to make a quick buck on, but really to have people close to you for the long ride.

Eve Halimi:
Unlike other investing apps, we never really focus on the single stocks and single stock mentality. We always focused on portfolios and ETFs, which we renamed as playlists, investing playlists to make them more accessible. And we also never really leaned into the red and the greens, the really intense colors that make you panic. We kept pastel colors and more neutral colors.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, because especially with the stock market as rough as it has been for so many people, and really many people certainly, and Gen Z have not in their lifetime, seen a bear market in their experience like we see now. I think calming colors is so important. Those subtle touches. And I do love the idea of a playlist, because it does make it so much more accessible. And it also makes it something that you want to talk about in a positive sense, not in a sense of panic or a braggy sense. Because what I would overhear, and I'm dating myself here, but among my young adult children in the pandemic was, "Oh my gosh, my friend bought shares of Hertz and of AMC, and they're making so much money. Maybe I should be buying that now too." And it was a FOMO mentality. This is very different, right?

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think from the get-go, we really push people to invest in ideas and what they believe in, whether that's a cause or an industry. And when you frame it that way, the conversation becomes a lot different. You are literally invested, as opposed to making the next big buck on AMC or GameStop. Because it truly aligns with your identity. And I think what the financial world hasn't seen is these elements of creativity and authenticity come into their own personal finances. And that's what we're really trying to do at Alinea.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, you did bring some investing tips for our financial grownups. So let's just go through them. You have three main ones, and then something I want to send people to on your app that I think will be really great. So the first tip has to do with spreading the love a little bit, right?

Anam Lakhani:
Hundred percent. This is a journey, it's a long-term journey. So bring your friends into the conversation, talk to them about it. I started investing because of Eve. And we would always have conversations, and she would suggest investments to me. So it's really important to have your friends along for the ride, not only to just be more knowledgeable, but also have that motivation and support.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you start a conversation with friends about investing, especially when people have different resources to invest different stages of their life, depending on what's going on? There could be a wide variety at your age, or at any age, frankly.

Eve Halimi:
I think the first conversation that starts with investing money is where do I start? What do I even start with? I don't know how much to invest and I don't know what to invest in. And that's where friends and a community is really helpful. Because you're all alone with all these questions at the beginning, with no support system.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then you obviously want to supplement it with trusted sources. And by the way, Alinea does have a ton of editorial content. And that's really important, because not all of your friends will be as knowledgeable as they think they are. And I guess I'm putting that kindly. There are people that sometimes do get caught up in all the chit chat and maybe believe that they're very well-intentioned, but they may not have the best advice. So always, of course, be true to yourself. Your goals may be very different from your friends, and your resources may be very different. So you don't want to stretch yourself too far. Another thing is to diversify. So tell us about that second tip.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah. We're big fans of Warren Buffett at Alinea. So as Warren Buffett advises new investors is to start with the S&P 500. And that's the number one investing tip we give to new users getting on the app, because you can start investing in the S&P with as little as a dollar. It's a great way to diversify your in investments and to spread your first initial investment across the top 500 US companies.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I mean, diversification, it's key to Alinea. We built Alinea so you don't have to worry about, am I picking the right company? Because there's no such thing as the right company. It's about making sure that you're investing, based on your identity and causes and industries you truly care about, and you think that are going to succeed over the next five to 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your third investing tip has to do with really making it a habit, investing regularly.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's important.

Eve Halimi:
Dollar cost averaging is a strategy we all employ here. Recurring investments is one that we opt in all the time, because timing the market is not as great as time in the market.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. A hundred percent. Just investing very, it is a habit. It's like, you can't go to the gym once. You can't eat a salad once or twice a year. That's not enough, and you're not going to see the best results that way. And so really making it consistently a habit. I think people are always surprised by how much further a little amount can go if you're regular about it. And it's just not about throwing chunks in when you feel like it's the right time. It also really alleviates the pressure when you're doing it regularly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Yes. So I want to ask you guys before I let you go, tell me your thoughts on the crypto market. Because that's something where a lot of people had FOMO, and then finally jumped in, only to see the value of their crypto go down. And in some cases, depending where it was kept, really not even have access to it to even liquidate if they wanted to. What is your take on crypto? What is your advice to people who have invested in crypto, or are interested in the market in general?

Anam Lakhani:
This is a perfect example of why diversifying your investment is so important. It's totally okay. I'm a crypto investor and I have a little bit of money there, but it's also important to have your money in other places as well, like stocks or bonds. And making sure you have that diversification. If you have invested in crypto, I think as an investor, you need to ask yourself if your thesis truly stands true to you. If you are a believer in the technology and what's behind it, definitely don't just panic and sell because you're seeing other people doing that. Crypto's a newer asset, and the cyclicality and volatility of it is much higher because of that.

Eve Halimi:
But also, I will say, we are seeing more and more correlations between the equity space and the crypto space. And in my vision of things, I do think the crypto space, because it's gotten so affected in the past few months, is going to get less affected as compared to the equity space. And I will say, do not invest in a cryptocurrency without reading the white paper without doing your research. It's very important that you understand the tech behind it, and you understand the value proposition of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's interesting. I love that you guys said that, because it really is true. People do want to take shortcuts. They do want to just get a tip from, whether it's TikTok or Reddit and so on. What's your warning to them, to people that just sort of, we value our peers' advice. That was your first tip, but that doesn't mean you don't also do separate homework. Some of which can be really hard. It's not easy to just read all the little fine print, Eve. It's intimidating.

Eve Halimi:
That is true. But I think there's a ton of resources out there. It doesn't take too long to do some quick Google searches and to find, especially we have a ton of resources on our blog, on our website, about crypto. I believe that you shouldn't be putting in money into a cryptocurrency or into the markets in general without doing some kind of research.

Anam Lakhani:
And it's also about staying true to yourself. Why are you doing this? Why are you investing in that? Do you really believe that this is something that you believe is going to increase in value? So having that personal thesis as well, you see a lot of professional investors have a thesis, and it's important to have that personal thesis as you go along this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Just tell me a little bit more about the concept of a personal thesis when it comes to investing.

Anam Lakhani:
I was talking to one of our community members and he said, he's like, "I'm long FinTech. I truly believe that FinTech, I know it's crashing and sinking and tumbling, but I'm long FinTech. I believe in the industry. And I know it's going to come up." And I was so impressed, because this individual has a personal thesis. So it's important to have that just so again, takes the pressure off, and you're remaining true to yourself and thinking with that thesis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. You guys have amazing resources on Alinea, one of which is a quiz. Tell me a little bit about that.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. So I mean, one of the pain points we saw is our community members just didn't know where to start investing, or what to invest in. And so we thought, let's make this a little bit easier. And we developed a quiz in-house that creates a playlist for you, based on your interest, risks and company you're excited about.

Eve Halimi:
And a playlist, just to recap, is a mini-portfolio, essentially, a mini-baskets of investments that can be stocks, ETFs, crypto, and bonds. We really help you based on what your risk outlook is, what's the investing space, and your interests are to construct a portfolio from the get-go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are great. Thank you for joining me. Tell us more about where people can find not just Alinea, but also you guys on social and be in touch.

Eve Halimi:
Our website is Alinea-invest.com, and there you'll find all our socials. We're Alinea Invest on most of our social platforms, on TikTok, on Instagram and so on. We also have personal accounts for Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani that you can follow, where we're constantly trying to provide more and more investment education.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you both.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it was interesting to note that the ladies are seeing more correlation between the crypto space and the equity space. But also take note of their warning to make sure if you do invest in crypto, you must read the white paper and do your research. You. On you, not on your friends, on you. So you understand the technology and the value proposition. Don't just go on a tip from a friend from Reddit or from FinTech. You need to do the work. It's your investment. I would love to hear your thoughts on Alinea and other new investing apps that are becoming available and taking a different approach. Are you open to these new platforms? Are you looking for them? What do you want? What new features appeal most to you? Do you have a playlist that you want to share? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell. And please check out my new TikTok channel.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am trying my best. I would love all of your support. My TikTok channel is actually a finalist for a Plutus Award. So I'm so excited about that. You can check it out just under my name, Bobbi Rebell on TikTok. And if you are not already subscribed or a follower of this podcast, please click that button and consider writing a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I not only appreciate the support, I really need it. So thank you in advance for that. It means a lot. Check out Alinea's quiz, by the way, that the ladies mentioned. That can help you create your first playlist, AKA a mini-portfolio for you. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes, along with all of their social handles. And big thanks to Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani of Alinea for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Author Natalie Silverstein returns to the podcast to preview her latest book: Simple Acts: The Busy Teen's Guide to Making a Difference

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• Websites - https://simpleactsguide.com and www.doinggoodtogether.org

• Natalie’s new book - Simple Acts: The Busy Teen's Guide to Making a Difference

Follow Bobbi!

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• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids, and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends, and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them, and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So, I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
That feeling of when you give, the generosity, the good feeling that you get back in return is totally, totally worth it. Another cup of coffee that's costing you $8 at a fancy coffee shop, you don't need that cup of coffee.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For Financial Grownups. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups love that coffee reference in the open. And it is true. Whether the mission is to give to ourselves in the form of investing, or to give to others, thinking twice about the little ways money is sometimes mindlessly spent can be a good exercise. Friend of the podcast, Natalie Silverstein, is back to share her new book, Simple Acts: The Busy Teens Guide To Making a Difference. Among the things that we talk about is fundraising, how to ask people for money, something I personally find very hard to do, even when it is for a really good cause that I'm giving money to myself. We also talk about social media, and how teens, and really, all of us, can leverage our followings for good. Just quickly, before we roll the interview, I want to thank everyone who has picked up copies of Launching Financial Grownups. I am sending virtual hugs to all of you, especially if you took just a couple of minutes to write a review on Amazon. I'm trying to get a hundred reviews, and I need each and every one of you to help me get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not going to lie, it is hard to keep asking, but it's slow going. You guys are busy. I get it. The link is right in the show notes, super easy. Also, if you're just on the Amazon page where you bought the book, scroll down, find it right at the bottom where it says post eight review or leave a review. You get it. I need this, and I appreciate all of you who do it so much. On that note, let's move on. Here is my interview with a fantastic Natalie Silverstein.

Bobbi Rebell:
Natalie Silverstein, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Natalie Silverstein:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. And it's so great to be with you again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm happy to have you back to celebrate the launch of your newest book. Simple Acts: The Busy Teens Guide to Making a Difference, which is a follow up to your earlier book, which was, Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back, which was published in 2019. And by the way, it was named one of the top books for parents who want to raise kind kids by the Huff Post. I am a parent of a teen as our listeners know. I wanted to know more about this, especially how things have evolved over COVID. So, tell us a little bit about the book, what's changed since the first book, what's added for teens and COVID. That was five questions in one, so I'll let you go now.

Natalie Silverstein:
Well, thank you so much. It's so good to be with you again. And congratulations to you on the new book. I love it. I have two emerging adults. I have a 19 year old and a 21 year old. And believe me, I am using your book almost daily now. So, basically when the first book came out, which was really geared towards families with young children, it came out in April of 2019. It was thrilling. And pretty much the very same day, on the day of my big party for the book launch, which was such a fun day, I had several people come over to me and say, "This is great, and I want you to sign it/ and it's awesome, but when are you going to write one for teenagers?" So, even the rabbi from our temple came over, and he's like, "This is awesome, but can you do one for kids doing bar and bat mitzvah and confirmation?"

Natalie Silverstein:
I'm like, "Okay, rabbi, can I just enjoy this moment for five minutes before someone asks me to write the follow up?" But I see the point there, which is that book was really for families with young children, and it was really about living our values and how we go through our days and setting this precedent for our kids and setting this example, role modeling this. And it's important, but it's really important as kids age and grow into compassionate and empathetic adults and young adults. And so immediately, I started thinking about the follow up. I had a proposal, and I got it out there into the world and I signed a contract, and literally was starting to write the new book in March of 2020. So, we all know what happened then. The world sort of shut down. I had a couple of months to write the book. And I was bereft, as everyone was.

Natalie Silverstein:
As schools shut down, my oldest child came home from her freshman year of college. She was disappointed, to say the least. So, we were all living together under one roof, remote school, remote everything. And it was tough. A mutual friend of ours, Erica [inaudible 00:06:23], reminded me that I should really write a little prologue, a little forward to the book, and explain the conditions under which I was writing this, and how for a few minutes there, I wondered to myself if this was really important. And I didn't know what was happening in the world. And my kids were just, again, bereft as everyone's kids were. They lost so much. And then slowly, day by day, as per Mr. Rogers, I looked around and I started looking for the helpers, right?

Natalie Silverstein:
And this was the story of the early days of the pandemic, certainly, where the only thing giving us hope, getting us out of bed in the morning was knowing that the situation was pretty dire, but there were people out there willing to literally risk their lives, to help us and to get our food delivered and to take care of those who were ill, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, the way that we got out of our sadness and depression and hopelessness was to volunteer, to engage, to send pizzas to the local emergency department, and to bake and to make blankets, and you name it. And that's what my kids and I did, when they weren't doing online school for those first few kind of really tough months. So, it was that mindset that sort of informed the work. I had an outline. I knew what I wanted to talk about, but it really re-energized my belief that serving others, caring for others, turning our focus outward helps us to feel better and to feel more hopeful, to feel less isolated.

Natalie Silverstein:
And so I just really felt like this was a message that teenagers, in particular, needed to hear, because they had really lost so much. So, the book emerged from that. It is written for teens, as opposed to being written for parents. And so that was an important piece of it too, because I didn't want to be preachy, right? I didn't want to talk down to kids. I didn't want to be corny. In your book, you talk a lot about speaking to your kids in a way that isn't preachy, that isn't nagging, right? You want them to make these choices and these decisions, you want to give them options, but you want it to come from them, and you want to encourage them to come up with these ideas, these things that they're passionate about so that they can find their purpose and they can connect to it. And that's how we're going to get them to do the work long term and to stay engaged in it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, let's go over some of the money tips that you have in the book, because money does make a big difference when it comes to helping organizations. It does matter. It's important to be there in person too, but money can make a huge difference and should never be underestimated. The first thing that I think a lot of people find really hard is fundraising. You say it's easier than you think. Tell us how is it easy, because I find it totally intimidating. I've done fundraisers. It's hard.

Natalie Silverstein:
It is. It is hard. It's sort of funny. I've done a ton of fundraising for our kids' school, for our temple, for other organizations. I actually don't have a problem asking people for money, because I remind myself that the worst thing that someone can say is no. And if you're passionate about something, if you really care about an organization and its mission and what it is trying to accomplish, you're not asking for yourself. I'm not asking you for money so I can put it in my own pocket or go buy myself something. I am asking you to come on board with me. And it's also requiring me to express to you, to articulate to you why this cause is so important and why it matters, and why your donation will make a difference and how. And so I find that fundraising is this really wonderful way to distill what it is that you care about, why, why you have decided to give some of your very hard-earned money to this cause to help, and why it is worth trying to convince others to do the same.

Natalie Silverstein:
And so I think there are so many skills here that I've just described that I think we want our young people to have, which is understanding what they care about, knowing how to articulate it, and really trying to convince someone else, and then also developing kind of a thick skin. Because again, the worst thing that someone can say is no. You say, "Thank you. Thanks for consideration. Thank you for your time today." And you move on. And you need to let that sort of roll right off of you. I find, in asking people for money, people aren't typically rude about this. I'm not talking about cold calling, but I'm saying, asking folks, who you have their attention and talking about this fundraising issue. I think most of the time, people are receptive to this. They support the effort if they can. If they can't, they will apologize and say, "I'm sorry, I can't help you today," or whatever it is. I really think that this is a great life skill.

Bobbi Rebell:
You point out that money is important. No matter how much you make, you do have something to give. It doesn't have to be only about dollars.

Natalie Silverstein:
Right. Absolutely. I want kids to really tap into... And you'll see, there's a chapter of the book that really talks about what's your, why? What are the things that you're passionate about? And then what are your talents, your skills, your strengths, the things that you enjoy doing? And I want people to be sort of expansive in their thinking about this. When I say talents, I don't mean, are you a concert pianist? I mean, are you particularly strong? Are you really patient? Do you love to read? Do you have really neat handwriting? Are you great with technology? Which let's face it, every teenager is. They're technology natives. Can you go to a senior center and help elderly folks to learn how to use their phones, or how to use the FaceTime so that they can communicate or Zoom with their families? Every single kid has a talent or a gift or a strength that they can share. And they might not know it. And a lot of kids are very insecure, especially after these last few years.

Natalie Silverstein:
And they probably feel like, "Ugh, I don't really have anything special about me. What could anyone use that I have?" But every single kid has something special about them that they can share.

Bobbi Rebell:
Consistency is something that you talk about as being very important. Once you choose a cause, especially if it's a school you maybe went to, your alma mater, or whatever it is, to consistently to have. I think that's important, because you can make more of an impact if you're more consistent with one organization, whether it be small or large. Having that ongoing relationship can be really meaningful in your life. I have found that myself.

Natalie Silverstein:
Yeah, absolutely. I think there are a few things here. There are organizations that where you can set up to have a monthly donation come automatically out of your bank account or out of your PayPal or whatever. So, we do this with God's Love. We deliver here in New York City. I automatically give them some very small amount, but it comes out of my bank account or my credit card every single month. So, I don't even think about that. That automatically goes to them. And so consistently, over the course of years, that adds up, right? And then in terms of your alma mater or giving to a school or to another organization... I got a scholarship when I went to college. I don't know about you, Bobbi, but there was no way I was going to college unless I got scholarship money and loans and work study. My parents were immigrants, and I was the first of my family to go away to college.

Natalie Silverstein:
And the school that I attended was able to give me an academic scholarship, which meant that I got a certain amount of money, I want to say about $5,000, if I stayed on the Dean's list every semester for four years. So, this was a motivator for me to do well and to work hard in my academic work. I also had work study money that came in, so I worked a job. And that money bridged the gap and made it possible for me to attend college. So, my mom said to me, and they were not big philanthropists. They had come here with nothing in their pockets, not speaking the language. And they said to me, when I graduated, "They helped you. They gave you this gift of this scholarship money.

Natalie Silverstein:
It is your responsibility to give something back to the college, as much as you can when you're working." So, my very first job... I graduated in 1991. And I recently checked with the alumni office. I've given a gift to my college every year since 1992. Now, those dollars were not huge. Probably in the beginning, it was probably $25 or something, a hundred dollars. I don't know, but that adds up. And any development professional will tell you, it almost doesn't matter. Consistency is what matters. Participation is what matters. The loyalty to this, that I believe in this school, and it is important to me for my family to give back. And PS, over time, as my circumstances have changed, I've been able to increase that amount. And so that's just golden. And I think that's so important, and it makes me feel really, really great.

Natalie Silverstein:
And so I think having those types of things in your life, the things you really care about, you can show that you support this cause. This is important enough for you to set aside some money. As we know, there's been a lot of studies done, that those who do tithing in their religious communities, et cetera, typically folks who have less money give more as a percentage of their income, because it is just kind of what they feel is expected of them, and it's how they want to give back to support this organization, this cause, this community. And so I would just encourage young people to think this way, and to know that they always have something to give. And that feeling of when you give, the generosity, the good feeling that you get back in return is totally, totally worth it. Another cup of coffee that's costing you $8 at a fancy coffee shop, you don't need that cup of coffee, right? That $8 can probably make a bigger difference for an organization that really needs it. And I just want young people and teens to think about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk about using social media.

Natalie Silverstein:
I don't know about you, but I only want to follow and look at positive messages online. There is enough bad news in the world, if I try and watch any of the nightly news. I don't need to see negative messages on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or anything else. So my account, which is simpleactsguide, all I do is promote the volunteer work that I do, the organizations that I support, other folks that I know who are doing good things. I just amplify amplify, amplify positive messages. And if I'm doing great out in the community, or I'm fundraising or I'm volunteering somewhere in a hands on way, and I want to share that, I just blast that out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us where people can follow up with you on your socials, and also your website and key resources.

Natalie Silverstein:
I am @simpleactsguide. That's the Instagram account. That's my main platform really, because I love using photographs. So, simpleactsguide. And that's also on Facebook. And that's also the website, simpleactsguide.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Natalie Silverstein, thank you so much.

Natalie Silverstein:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. It's such a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Natalie had so many great ideas. Again, a reminder full transcripts on my webpage, Bobbirebell.com, so no need to take notes. I follow Natalie, by the way and her simpleactsguide account on Instagram, and it is always a mood lifter and motivator. So, please make sure you are following her. And the simpleactsguide has a separate page, so follow that too.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is motivating you guys this summer, besides obviously Natalie? Please follow me on Instagram a@bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell, and DM me to let me know that you are part of the Financial Grownup community, so I can follow you back. And then let me know what is motivating you. What's getting you excited, especially with so many things finally opening up. And even though it is so crazy expensive, I know a lot of us are really getting down to it and taking those vacations that we have put off for so long. For more on Natalie, please check out our show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can get those right on my website, bobbirebell.com, where you can also get our free newsletter, and as I mentioned, free transcripts of every podcast. I also want to support your company or organizations that you care about by being part of upcoming events that you might have, or if you have a need for personal finance education or consulting, get in touch by going to the work with me section on my website. I'm looking forward to hearing from you guys. I can't wait to hear back from everyone after you check out Natalie's book as well. As a reminder, it is called Simple Acts: The Busy Teens Guide to Making a Difference. And big thanks to Natalie for always making sure we are at our best as financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney, host of the Mommy’s on a Call podcast shares easy and fun tips for getting kids on the right track to be Financial Grownups

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse because their girlfriend had, it's because they wanted it because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of launching Financial Grownups, because you know what grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Haven't we all been there? Seeing something cool that our friends have or hearing about an amazing vacation we would love to go on, but it's not always in our budget. For parents, if that want is coming from our kids, it's tough, but it can also be an opportunity. And that's what we are talking about today with our guest. Stephanie Uchima is a business strategist, wellness coach and the host of the podcast, Mommy's on a Call. She's a mom of three who has learned to leverage those kid-driven wishlist into really effective money lessons. She uses everyday events as well as planned games and experiences to make money lessons real. And her tips are for more than moms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie and I talk about so many great things, including the stock market game, which she will explain, it's for older kids and getting your kids to open up about what they really want when they ask for expensive things and pricey vacations. The truth is that's not often what they're actually after. Here is Stephanie Uchima. Stephanie Uchima-Carney, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am a huge fan of your podcast, by the way, which is Mommy's on a Call. You're also a business strategist and a wellness coach. And of course, because your podcast is Mommy's on a Call, you also are the mom of three kids. So welcome.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me. Yes. Three little kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Three very little kids, one of which was a pandemic baby, so you have your hands full. we recently connected at a conference and we were talking a lot about, because I write about teaching older kids about money, you have a passion for teaching the youngest children about money. And so I asked you to come on here to give some tips to people who may have younger kids in their lives, their own kids maybe, maybe their grandkids, maybe their friends' kids, maybe their nieces and nephews. But I think there's never a time too early when the kid expresses interest to teach a child about money. Tell us more about why you're so interested in this. Have there been things that have come up in your life that have brought this to be top of mind for you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Yes. Well, so I kind of went on this journey of working on my own money mindset and really thinking about my own personal relationship with money. And I realized a lot of money relates back to your youth, back to your childhood. People have asked, "What's your very first memory of money? And so when I started to do my own reflection on that, I realized, "Wow, my own relationship with money has to do with when I was a very, very little kid." And so if I was a little kid when it shaped the future of my relationship with money as an adult, I need get to start early with my own children, so I don't basically screw them up for the future either. And so thinking about that, I was like, "Okay, let's learn more. I know they're young." So my kids are currently two, almost four and almost seven.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
They have play money, they have different things, but how can I start to instill the values and the relationship with money at an early age, so that when they are almost 40 years old going on a money mindset track down memory lane, they don't say, "Oh my goodness. Yeah, my mom and dad really screwed me up in the beginning."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you teach little kids about money? Do you let them see what's going on on your phone, for example, when you pay for things?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So we actually to just play with play money and I know they've seen Venmo, but they don't really understand what the digital money is. And I honestly think for toddlers and for little kids, that's a little much, but we do have play credit cards. And so my daughters are only two and almost four and they have a Mini Mouse grocery set and we play actual cash, like cash register and grocery. So there's a little cash register on it. It has fake money. It has one for a dollar, five for a five little coins and we go through it. I'm like, "I want eggs. The eggs are a dollar. Here's my money." I give it to them and they give it back or they understand that there's an exchange. And I always say, "It's not just money for something, it's also an energy exchange."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So I go on it on two different ways. And I know that could sound a little woo. But I always say, "Money is just an exchange for the value you're giving me. Money is exchanged for a product, money's exchange for a service." We use money as a universal tool to help get different things. And so they have two cash registers. They have a learning resources, one, a mini mouse one, and we literally just play. So my big thing is teaching toddlers and little kids is to do it through play. So have them have their own little wallet with their own fake credit card. And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I don't think you can buy that today. You need to make a choice between these two items, because you only have $5 and this one's $8 and this one's $1. You can get five of these." We play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you do that with the credit card? Do you teach them that they have to pay it in full at the end of the month? How does that work? Do you come back to it on a different day? Do you teach them about interest and what would happen if they had a late payment? How far can you take it, especially for your almost seven year old.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So the seven year old, that's funny, because for a while he was like, "Oh, just charge it," or, "Just put it on that." And I looked at him and I said, "Honey, what do you think happens once you give this magical card?" Especially like Amazon, for example, because everything is one touch. He's like, "Just buy that on Amazon." And I'm like, "Oh, I can just buy it. It magically appears, but then what?" Then how does that work? And so we do. We talk to him about the concept of "It's not just magic. It doesn't just appear. There's a cost for things. And so if you want that, it's going to be this amount. And even though you give this magical thing and it happens, it still has to come from somewhere." And so it's really hard. It's easier when it's physical. I think it's really hard, at least personally, to teach them digital. But we also love using manipulatives and he loves math. So that's helpful is that he loves math.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So anytime he goes to a store, he'll look at different numbers and prices of things and we'll play games like, "What's that plus that?" Or, "If I bought two of those, how much would it be?" And so we play around with that to help also academically.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also play the stock market game, so they can learn to invest with play money. And that actually is all online.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So that's for older kids. So a little side note is I substitute taught sixth grade math for fun. I was actually a math major back in college, but never pursued that route. Recently, someone asked if I would substitute teach sixth grade and I said, "Why not? It'd be fun." And they're like, "Oh, and they have this thing called the stock project." So this is more for 11 year olds and 12 year olds. And I was like, "Oh, what's this?" And I started to research it and play it with them. And I think it's such a fun tool for probably 10 to 12 year olds is the stock market game. They were telling me, I was asking them questions. I was like, "Which stocks are you buying? Why are you buying that? What's interesting about that. Okay. If you decide to sell that," and it's really fun, that's all online. But it's a good resource because they can play with their play money. And when they lose, they understand that, because they can see the charts in front of them.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so I think that's a good tool. Also introducing them to what stocks are. What is investing? What does this mean outside of the way money works just in your house, how money can be invested and why companies need money and how that all works?

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about how you can get your kids interested in savings and in automated savings and things like that. Talk about that and your unique approach to that.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
My kids still right now aren't really intrinsically motivated by money. They don't still really understand. Like my son, for example, his birthday's coming up. He's like, "I want this Pokemon thing." And so he has a little piggy bank. We go old school here. And he saved his tooth fairy money. He saved his birthday gift money. And then also I said, "You know what, instead of just leaving it here in your piggy bank, mommy's going to take that and we're going to open up a bank account for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your advice to parents whose kids come home from school or whatever activities they have and, especially as we're hopefully emerging from the pandemic, parents are finally taking those trips that they put off for so long. You asked me this question now I'm putting it right back at you. And they hear about, for example, to use your example, they hear about their friend going to Hawaii. What do you do to your kid that comes home and asks mom, "Can we go on this trip that my friend is going on? We should do that too." And it's not that they're necessarily materialistic. They don't even necessarily know. But how do you manage that?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You're putting me on the spot now on my own question. The way I look at it is today, my son actually said, "I want to go to Hawaii to go rock climbing." And I looked at him and I said, "Rock climbing? What do you mean? We never have been rock climbing in Hawaii." He's like, "Remember that time we climbed on rocks?" I was like, "You mean in Joshua Tree?" I was like, "So you don't actually want to go to Hawaii. You just want the experience of rock climbing? Well, let's look at other places that we can drive to that's close that you can do that." I know a lot of kids are going on trips, especially like Disneyland or things like that. "Why does he get to go? Why don't I get to go?" And I always say kind of like what you say is "Our family makes different choices and we choose for our family and what's best for our family. And so this time we think it's fun since you guys have never been to," I think, well, we're going to a summer camp.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
"Since you guys have never been water skiing and things like that, we decided instead of doing something you've done before, we're going to choose something different. And it'll be a fun experience with the family." I always like to get at the root of what they really want. So maybe they didn't actually want that physical item or maybe they actually didn't want the trip to Hawaii. Maybe they really just wanted family time together. Sometimes we'll come back from a trip. And I'll ask. We went for spring break somewhere and I was like, "What was the best part of the trip?" And he looked at me and said, "Mommy and daddy were here with me for a week." I was like, "Yeah." So we could have been anywhere. We could have literally been home.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so it's what do they really want? And same with even when they're young, when they're toddlers. All they really want is to know that they're loved, that they are accepted for who they are. They just want to feel that comfort. And so materialistic money, all that aside, there's a root at what they want. So if they want an item, because they want to feel included, that's a different emotion. And so now you can address the inclusion part. It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse, because their girlfriend had. It's because they wanted it, because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way you frame that. Tell us quickly about Mommy's on a Call. Because I love this, this is my new obsession, this podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Well, what happened was, is I had a podcast originally called Power Mom Minute and I wanted to interview all the successful moms in business, because I was very curious how they did it behind the scenes. How do you run a company and yet be a mom, because that was my aspiration to do. So I started this podcast and then got pregnant with a third kid, put it on hold, COVID hit. And in the middle of COVID, I needed an outlet and I was still curious, "What's going on in the world of moms?" I was on a phone call and my son was shooting a Spider-Man dart at me. I had a newborn that I was breastfeeding and I literally screamed out loud, "Mommy's on a call. Everyone, be quiet." I was like, "Huh." And the person on the Zoom was like, "That's your podcast name." And I was like, "That's perfect."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So it's a play on two things. Mommy's on a call, like "Go away." We're just going to figure out what's the behind the scenes of moms in business, career. And also mommy's on a call with different aspects of themselves. So I'm really big into multidimensional wellness. So that's not just health and or that's not just physical, emotional, mental. It's also financial. It's also career, which is occupational, environmental. And so mommy's on a call with different parts of the herself and her identity. So talking to you, mommy's on a call with finances and how can we better our financial future and our children's financial future. Or mommy's on a call with her health. And so I might interview someone on intermittent fasting or hormone health, because I'm personally curious. I want to see how you experts do it all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I loved being on your show. I hope everyone checks out Mommy's on a Call. Where else can people find out more about you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You can go to mommysonacall.com. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. It's all under Stephanie Uchima, that's U-C-H-I-M-A and follow me along there. I talk about all things motherhood and wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The advice at the end of the interview about vacations is so on point to what is going on these days with travel. It's not only getting ridiculously expensive, it is also so difficult, it may honestly just not be worth it. So drill down with your kids when they're saying, "We want to go away." And by the way, this goes for your partner or your friends or whoever you will be traveling with and figure out if there's a way to get the same experience or a similar experience or a good enough experience, whether it's rock climbing, or just spending time together without the hefty price tag and not to be overlooked, the hassle factor. One thing that is hassle-free is getting the show notes and full transcripts to this podcast. Both are available right on my website, which is my name. So it's just bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L .com. My newsletter is also available to subscribe to right on my website. Links to all of that in the show notes attached to the podcast, but also again on my website.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for investing the time to listen to this podcast. One thing I am asking in return and it's super easy and it's also free is to take just two more minutes to review my book, Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon. And, yes, the link to review this book on Amazon will be in the show notes, but you can also just find it by going to Amazon, finding the book and scrolling down, and finding where to review it. I am trying to get to 100 reviews and let me tell you, it's not easy. So if you do put a review on that page for me, it is noticed and it is appreciated. Your one review matters a lot to help me get to that goal. So thank you truly. I really appreciate it, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
And please of course share it with me on social media. If you do review the book or just if you the podcast, please help share it. Help me increase my listeners, grow the community. DM on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter, @bobbirebell. And also check out my new TikTok channel. Is that what it's called? Is it a channel? I'm not sure, but I'm posting a lot of videos of me doing local news hits, which is super fun, because I'm giving advice about battling inflation and saving money and so on. And you guys seem to like them, so I love sharing them and I would love to hear from you there. And, of course, make sure you are subscribed not just to this podcast, but to Stephanie's Mommy's on a Call podcast. It's a great one. And big thanks to Stephanie Uchima for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

• Learn how common the Career Blahs

• Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

• Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

• Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

---

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - WhitneyJohnson.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work

Money Tips

1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.

2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.

3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.

---

Follow Jill!

• Instagram - @jilleduffy

• Twitter - @jilleduffy

• Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/

• Jill’s book - The Everything Guide to Remote Work

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?

Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.

Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.

Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.

Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?

Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.

Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.

Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?

Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.

Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.

Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?

Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.

Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?

Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"

Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."

Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?

Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Learn the best advice, hacks and lessons to be your own self-made boss from top small business owners with authors Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg

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• Website - https://www.selfmadeboss.com/

• Jackie and Lauren’s book - Self-Made Boss

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. This episode is sponsored by UNest. Start investing in your most important asset, your kids, with UNest. Soon you will also be able to give the gift of crypto. Join the UNest legacy wait list and get early access entry into giveaways and much more. Visit unest.co for more information.

Lauren Weinberg:
If you're in the food business, he talks about using a smaller plate when you're taking pictures of food, what time of day, how to capture the best light. He really goes into a lot of specific details, because if you think about social channels and all these places where people are getting information or where they're viewing content from business owners, the better you can put your brand out there with photography and how you portray things, the more likely you are to connect and breakthrough.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard. But, together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money is in the details. If you want to succeed in business, my friends, wise words from Lauren Weinberg. She is the co-author of a new book, Self-Made Boss, that had me both smiling and taking notes as I read it. The other author is a longtime friend of mine, Jackie Reses. We went to Penn together, where we were also Tri Deltas.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jackie and Lauren met while working at Yahoo, and then worked together at Square, where they spent a lot of time with small business owners and entrepreneurs. Now they have come together with their first book, hopefully one of many, Self-Made Boss: Advice, Hacks, and Lessons from Small Business Owners.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we cover how businesses can leverage technology to connect more with customers, a great story about a pet-grooming business that you will definitely want to hear, upping the ante on the employee experience, creating an employee culture ... Super important these days when there's a lot of competition for workers, so you want to keep the good ones ... and how to set your company up to pass on to the next generation, although you also need to figure out if you even should.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here are Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg. Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg, you are both financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Jackie Reses:
Thank you for having us.

Lauren Weinberg:
Yes, thanks for having us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congrats on the book Self-Made Boss: Advice, Hacks, and Lessons from Small Business Owners. By the way, this is extra special because Jackie is a dear friend of mine going back to our days at University of Pennsylvania, where we were roommates and even, dare I say, Tri Delta sorority sisters. Oh my gosh. All right, before we get into the advice that you have for our listeners, you both met working at big companies. Tell us more about how you met and how this book was born.

Jackie Reses:
Sure. So we had the pleasure of meeting at Yahoo. We were both executives who ran the company. We then moved from Yahoo to Square. Lauren, I'll speak for you right now and just keep going for a second, and then you can introduce yourself.

Jackie Reses:
So Lauren is the chief marketing officer of Square. So wow, wow, wow. Incredible. And I ran banking and lending at Square and also the people team. And so, we had the benefit of working at a company that focuses on empowering small businesses and helping them start, run, and grow.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the idea was born out of listening to customers through the millions of Square sellers across the country, particularly in a pandemic, when we saw how much trauma was happening in the small business market. We understood some insights around how small businesses build community and learn and we thought this book would be an incredibly powerful guide to help them build their business.

Lauren Weinberg:
Yeah. I don't have too much to add to that other than, yes, Jackie and I met at Yahoo. We also were both New Yorkers who moved to California. So we shared that journey together of just moving our families across the country. We spent time in California walking around, because there was really nothing else you could do during the pandemic. We thought there's just this void of information.

Lauren Weinberg:
We also had the insight that more people than ever were starting their own businesses. That was true in 2020, where we saw more new business formations, and then again in 2021, where you have the great resignation where people aren't just leaving their jobs to sit home all day. They're leaving their jobs to go and start businesses.

Lauren Weinberg:
We thought, wow, anytime that there's these downturns in the economy or things are changing is a time where we tend to see a lot of innovation and new starts. And so, we thought the timing for putting a book like this out there with this kind of advice would be a good moment for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it was definitely a good moment, and you have a very optimistic tone, Lauren. I love that. Self-Made Boss also is a book ... Even though it is definitely a business book, it is very practical, it is very specific, but it's driven by personality and it is a book that is joyous. There's a lot of fun stories in here. So I want to ask each of you, what was the funniest story in the book where you just couldn't help but smile?

Jackie Reses:
Yeah, I'll start. One of the things we really enjoyed about the book is that it's written through the eyes of small business owners, and each chapter is a business chapter like HR, finance, hiring, operations, and logistics, legal matters. But each chapter is told through the eyes of four or five small businesses in each chapter and also a handful of experts in each chapter.

Jackie Reses:
There's one in particular that I really enjoyed, and the entrepreneurs' names are Keith and Patricia Miller from Pampered Pooch Playground and Bubbly Paws in Minneapolis. You listen to Keith and Patricia, and it was Keith who I spent the most time with, talk about how they build their team at a grooming shop ... Grooming shops, because they now have a few, in Minneapolis. He had incredible insight in how he focuses on fun and teamwork and creating an environment that feels safe for the dogs, safe for dog customers, and also safe for his employees.

Jackie Reses:
And so, I loved his ideas. One really simple one in building trust was he took a video of the dog getting groomed while it was getting groomed. He saw so many advantages in this idea. From a dog owner's point of view, they could see how their dog behaved during grooming, which could be a trying time for some dogs. The dog obviously felt safe because they were going to be streamed to their owner. For his employees, they felt safe so that they could also show their work. If anything went wrong, they could show what happened. It was a great experience. They could show that as well.

Jackie Reses:
And so, it's kind of like one of those things that you would never think of, but it's a really interesting business hack that he created in the context of his grooming store.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that it's using technology to make it more human and more ... I don't know what you call it with the animal, but you know what I mean. It's connecting people. Lauren, do you have a fun story?

Lauren Weinberg:
I would say that Germanee G. is somebody that really stands out to me, because she epitomizes this idea of following your passion and your dreams. So she had this great job, corporate job, at Gap and she left that job to go become a stylist. She now splits her time between Atlanta and LA. I think just hearing about her saving up her money and just getting ready to take that leap of faith is just really cool, because to me it really, I think, just epitomizes that entrepreneurial spirit that we try to capture in the book and just how she really went for it to go pursue her dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also so relatable because so many people do have these dreams. One thing in the book that I liked is that nothing was too small. You get into some very tiny decisions, but they are very important decisions. So can you share what the most overlooked thing, or one of the overlooked things, that many business owners forget to pay attention to that's really important, it moves the needle?

Lauren Weinberg:
I'll talk about two things to start with. I think one is just the entire look and feel of your business. I think thinking about your business from the notion that every touchpoint that somebody has with your store, what does your window look like? What does it look like when you walk through the door? If you have an online business, your website, your logo, your presence, every interaction that somebody has with your brand is a chance for them to make an impression and form a relationship with you. And so, I would just say all of those details really matter.

Lauren Weinberg:
And so, thinking about them from the very beginning of your business is really important. Then along those lines, we talked to Aundre Larrow in our marketing chapter and he is a photographer. He gave all these like very specific tips on how to take great pictures.

Lauren Weinberg:
So if you're in the food business, he talks about using a smaller plate when you're taking pictures of food, what time of day, how to capture the best light. He really goes into a lot of specific details, because I think if you think about social channels and all these places where people are getting information or where they're viewing content from business owners, the better you can put your brand out there with photography and how you portray things, the more likely you are to connect and breakthrough.

Lauren Weinberg:
So I thought the tips that he provided in there were really very specific, very detailed, and extremely actionable. Like don't take pictures outside in the middle of the day when it's sunny, but do take pictures inside when there's indirect sunlight. Just really practical tips that anyone can use on their own.

Jackie Reses:
I thought some of the financial advice was really helpful also, and just tiny decisions you might make at the very beginning of starting a company. For example, don't combine your business account and your personal account in terms of business accounts. A lot of small business owners, when they start to make it easy on themselves, they conflate the two. But there are a lot of downstream effects that could impact their business just by that one simple decision.

Jackie Reses:
And so, now there are lots of places, particularly online, where you can open up an online business account for free, and then get a lot of the technical tools that help support lots of other analytical decisions you can have.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the reason why you don't want to combine the accounts is if you ever want to get credit, it's hard to take apart your business account and your personal account. When you have to deal with taxes, it makes it more complicated. You're going to spend a headache's worth of time dealing with taxes. You might need to position your company to raise money at some point in the future. It just looks sloppy. Then you clearly have to do a separate accounting. Then you might also need trades and have to do trade invoicing and things like that.

Jackie Reses:
And so, you're going to have to start separating because they're going to want to get credit. They're going to want to see your different elements of your business operating independently.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the number one hack each of you learned from the self-made bosses that you interviewed, ideally something that you guys ... Even though you have a big, strong history in small business which people can read about in the book, what did you learn?

Lauren Weinberg:
I think Jackie talked about Keith Miller and Bubbly Paws. I think that they were really ahead of their time when it came to just thinking about culture and employee benefits for small business owners. I think a lot of business owners are contending with this fact now, like how do we retain employees?

Lauren Weinberg:
Keith was bringing cupcakes for employees on their birthdays. He was doing engagement surveys. He was offering employees mats to stand on so that their feet were more comfortable throughout the day. I think in a lot of ways, those are really simple things, but not always things that small businesses have front and center when they're thinking about their employee experience.

Lauren Weinberg:
So that was definitely one that I thought, wow, he had the hiring and culture part of the business down in a way that I think a lot of businesses are really trying to get their head around in the moment.

Jackie Reses:
Yeah. Pete Stein, the oyster farmer that you had talked about, he hacked software. So he wanted to optimize his operations and he used bus software in order to build his own optimized routes. And so, it doesn't have to be something super complicated. You can go out and try to find a proxy for what you're trying to do.

Jackie Reses:
My comment before was go find a free online business savings and checking account. In this case, he optimized his utilization. And so, if you're really creative about some of these systems, you can do it in a cheaper way if you need to and have it done more quickly. I think that kind of creativity is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Last question. We talk a lot on this podcast about generational wealth. What is your advice to families who want to pass a small business to the next generation? Because it is complicated.

Lauren Weinberg:
It is complicated. I think a couple of things. One is to make sure that you have family members that want to take on your business. We heard a lot from business owners that just didn't have anybody to pass their business on to. So I think that's something that getting your family members involved in, making sure that the interest is there.

Lauren Weinberg:
Then when it does come time to transition, I would say give up some control. I think one of the things we learned from a lot of the people that we interviewed in the book that come from multi-generational businesses is that when the next generation could come in and they were given more free reign to think about how they would change the business operation, that that really helps the business evolve.

Lauren Weinberg:
So one example is with Acme Smoked Fish. That was the company that I talked about with my roommate from college. It's fourth generation. Her brother came in and said, "We really need to upgrade how we think about manufacturing. We have a smoked fish company." At the time, it felt like a huge risk to them, and it ended up becoming the thing that really helped propel their business into the next phase of growth.

Lauren Weinberg:
I think the same thing is true with Pesso's Ice Cream, where they were really starting to think about using data. They used to have 132 flavors and they realized they don't need 132 flavors, that they could have 30 flavors and that those 30 flavors are the most popular, that really cuts down on the amount of time that they spend then producing ice cream flavors that are less popular.

Lauren Weinberg:
So I would say make sure that you, a, have the people there that have the interest. Then give them the room to do things in a little bit of a different way, which does require giving up some control, which is hard to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jackie, by the way, oh, your parents had a small business that you did not take over.

Jackie Reses:
Oh me? Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Jackie Reses:
No, I definitely was not taking over my family's small business. I think I'm the only person in my family to not work for myself. I did come from a small business family, and I appreciated some of the upsides and downsides of working with people that you can't fire and they are part of your family.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the message that I would add to this ... And I think about Jonathan Sciabica from Sciabica Family California Olive Oil and Gourmet Foods. Literally his grandfather and great-grandfather began the business with information they had pulled coming from Italy. The insight from him was to think about rules for how you're going to work together. Think about who decides what and how do you operate.

Jackie Reses:
I think that was really good advice he gave us so that you could try to minimize the ambiguity in how you make decisions and how you operate together. And so, people had their roles. Sometimes in family business, that can be incredibly challenging because you have, I'll call it, sloppy decisions. But where you don't make sloppy decisions and you're very specific about who does what, who decides, it can help alleviate some of that family tension.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice. Thank you both for joining us. Where can people learn more about you guys and Self-Made Boss?

Jackie Reses:
Well, they absolutely should go to our website, selfmadeboss.com. They can go onto Amazon or any independent book seller, if they prefer that, and look up Self-Made Boss. Hopefully they will enjoy the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you both.

Lauren Weinberg:
Thank you.

Jackie Reses:
Thank you so much for having us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great stories we couldn't get to. So even if you are not a small business owner, read this book, just for the entertainment value and the amazing stories these self-made bosses share with Jackie and Lauren.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what resonated with you in the interview? DM me on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, or on Twitter, @bobbirebell. Please share this podcast on social media, or just tell a friend, so we can grow the Financial Grownup community.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want to thank those you who have reviewed my new book Launching Financial Grownups wherever, maybe Amazon, maybe Goodreads, and have shared it on social media. Please let me know when you do through all the social channels, and I would love to thank some of you. I'll surprise you with some Grownup Gear merch, which, by the way, you can check out at grownupgear.com to celebrate all of the adulting moments in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, if you are looking for someone to speak to your company or your school or your parent group, please get in touch. Just go to my website, super easy, bobbirebell.com, and click on the Work with Me tab, or you can also get a Grownup Gear discount by signing up for the newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg, authors of Self-Made Boss. Pick up a copy. Thanks to both of them for helping us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Parents and grandparents may be wary of crypto for their own portfolio's, but when it comes to setting up their kids for long-term investing success, UNest.co expects digital currency to be the gift of choice this year.

---

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. This episode is sponsored by UNest, start investing in your most important asset, your kids, with UNest. Soon, you will also be able to give the gift of crypto. Join the UNest Legacy waitlist and get early access, entry into giveaways, and much more. Visit unest.co for more information.

Ksenia Yudina:
We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? And overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobby Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here we go, grownup friends. If you are a regular listener, you know I spend a lot of time talking about how to set our kids up for success, especially as they get into the teen and early adult years. But it all starts early. And while money isn't everything, of course, having money ready for them to go fund those early life needs, whether it's college, a car, a first home, and yes, even a wedding, it is a wonderful gift that we can give to the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so I was fascinated by what I learned from a relatively new company called UNest, which is an app designed to help parents and loved ones save and invest for their kids. They found that in addition to stocks, which is a surprise to nobody, what parents really wanted to put in their kids investment accounts was crypto. And the reason why actually makes a lot of sense, especially when you're worried about the risks. We're going to get to that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently sat down with Ksenia Yudina. She is the founder and CEO of UNest. And we started by talking about her own experience getting started in her adult life which, like so many young people, included a mountain of student debt. Here is Ksenia Yudina.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ksenia Yudina, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ksenia Yudina:
Hi, Bobbi. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for coming on. You are truly a financial grownup. You came to the U.S. when you were only 18, put yourself through undergrad and business school. You've done so much with your life. We're going to talk about your company UNest in a minute. But you graduated, we're talking a lot about student loans, you graduated with I think $180,000 in student loans. Tell us how you did that.

Ksenia Yudina:
I came to here when I was a student. I was 18 years old. I was truly passionate about education. And I believe that education is a key to getting financial freedom. So even 18 years old, I kind of was very rational and logical person in that respect. So I put myself through college, got my undergrad from CSUN. And then later got my MBA from UCLA Anderson. I also received a CFA, which is one of the hardest financial exams in the nation. And I believe it just changed me as a person, right? I do know how to manage my own money. I'm trying to help my friends every day financial planning. And I'm trying to kind of save the country right now from the little bit of financial crisis we're going through right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you're talking a lot about what's going on especially with student loans and how to finance our education, how to finance the futures of young people. And to that point, your company is UNest. Tell us about UNest.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. UNest is an app that makes it super easy for parents to create and manage the account for their kids, the investment account, and get gifts from friends and family. The inspiration to start my own company, as you mentioned, came from kind of twofold. First, because I graduated myself with 180,000 in student debt. And a lot of my friends were impacted by the student debt crisis. Right now, it's estimated to be at 1.7 trillion. And a lot of parents, quite honestly, just want to build a better future for their kids and want to make a difference in their kids lives and give them more chance to success. The key to that is start saving early and investing for the kids future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, on the surface, a lot of parents were told to open up a 529. Recently, there's been a lot of debate about where is the best place to really put the money for your young children as they grow up because there are limitations to 529s. UNest made a change. You pivoted from 529s to UTMAs early on. Walk us through that.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, that's correct. I was actually a huge fan of 529s when I was working at Capital Group, my previous employer. And Capital Group was number one provider of 529s in the nation. And when we started the company, we focused on 529s because of amazing tax advantages and tax-free growth. What we realized in the middle of pandemic is that parents have different priorities for their kids and not necessarily want to save for college.

Ksenia Yudina:
The biggest limitation of 529 is that if you do not spend it for education expenses or for college, you lose all tax benefits and you get penalty of 10% on all the gains in your account. As we learned from our user base, parents want to save for some other things sometimes, for the child's first car or for the wedding day or for the first home. It's not necessarily college. And also, a lot of people were just questioning the value of college and the cost of education when everything shifted online during the pandemic.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that makes a lot of sense because I can say having raised three kids here, every kid is so different and their dreams and aspirations and their priorities can really vary. And we don't know necessarily when they're young where they will want to focus and where we can help the most as they become financial grownups. Why is it so important then to start saving and investing for children when they're really young, when we don't know necessarily what their priorities are going to be?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. I think that's the best way to set them up for success. Right? So I'll just give you quick example from my life. When I went through my undergrad, I actually got assistance from the government and I was lucky enough to get financial aids and all of that. But in the meantime, my parents did help me with the down payment on my first apartment, or the townhouse. I actually still own it. That resulted in such a huge value-add and just wealth building and gave me a great opportunity to kickstart my own savings and investment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk to me about the pandemic because you're growing this company during the pandemic and you had to make a lot of decisions. How did the pandemic impact the focus of UNest?

Ksenia Yudina:
Sure. So the first one, as I mentioned, that big pivot from 529s to UTMA, which is a different type of account that allows parents invest for other priorities for their kids. Another interesting observation during the pandemic was that gifting became super popular on the platform. So UNest gives this ability to gift for birthdays or other holidays electronically. And when people were hit with pandemic, a lot of times they were not able to celebrate holidays in person. That feature became extremely popular, just sending a quick gift to the child in your life.

Ksenia Yudina:
And another interesting thing during the pandemic and just most recently last year was huge demand for crypto assets. We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? Overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto. So that's what we're doing right now. We're actually launching it in few months.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, you have a waitlist for this product, which is kind of mind blowing to me. Tell us about this new crypto product because I know a lot of people are interested in it. And why move into digital assets, especially as you're still a growing company?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah. As we look into the future, the next 10, 15, 20 years, people realize that crypto has a lot of potential. And it does have a lot of interest right now. Everyone reads the news. Everyone expressed some interest in buying, holding crypto. And sometimes when people are hesitant to buy it for themselves, when they think about their kids and that long, long time horizon, they understand that this is the asset class that has the highest probability of appreciation. It just reduces risk, right? Like when you think about holding something that might be volatile in the short term, but you think about holding it for the next 10, 15, 20 years, all of a sudden you realize that you can withstand that risk.

Ksenia Yudina:
Another observation is that parents want to learn more about crypto. We would like to provide about 30 coins on UNest platform, and we will provide educational component so they can actually learn what each coin means and make informed decision when they buy something for their kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that educational component is so important. Before we wrap up, I also want to touch on, there was just a piece in Fortune about how you've been helping employees in Ukraine and Russia. Tell us what you've been doing to support them since the war started. I know this is something obviously, you're from Eastern Europe, this is something that is really in your heart these days.

Ksenia Yudina:
When I started UNest, the goal was to create a truly global company. So we hired people from all around the world. And today, I'm proud to say that we have team members in U.S., Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Belarus. And as situation in Ukraine escalated, our top priority as a company was safety of our team members. So we acted very quickly to relocate them to safe zones outside of those impacted by the war and provide financial assistance to our employees and their families.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you very much. This has been so interesting. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and about UNest, which I want to tell everyone, by the way, is unest.co, co not com, unest.co.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. Yes. Thank you. They can find out more about us and actually get on the crypto waiting list on our website, unest.co. And just search for us in the App Store or Google Play. You know, the app is available. They can read some reviews. They can learn a little bit more about the product if they just simply go to the App Store or Google Play.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social media handles. I forgot to ask you.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, it just @unest. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Ksenia Yudina:
Oh, thank you so much, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So friends, now I'm thinking after this interview, if we're on the fence about crypto, is the best way to manage risk to create the longest time horizon by investing for the next generation? I'm curious to hear what you guys think. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram or Bobby Rebell on Twitter. And I'm now on TikTok. They said it would never happen. But please check out my videos there. It is an understatement to say I could really use your support. And by the way, my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, makes a great gift for Mother's Day, Father's Day, and of course, for parents of high school and college graduates. Don't just get presents for the graduates, get presents for the parents, right? Give it to each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, make sure to check out UNest at unest.co. That's unest.co without the M. And download the app to get on the Legacy waiting list and enter their giveaways. Big thanks to UNest founder Ksenia Yudina for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobborebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobby Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Futurist Amy Webb, co-author of The Genesis Machine, explains how money influences the development synthetic biology, and the risks we need to be aware of before it is too late. 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So, I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Amy Webb:
Hermès, they've got a bag coming out this year made of something that looks exactly like leather but is made out of a synthetic process. So, it's not like chemical-based, it's totally organic. It's just engineering cells to produce something different. That's going to retail for $4,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what, grownup life is really hard, but together, we got this. Hey grownups, we are going off script today for an epic topic because futurist Amy Webb is my guest. She is going to share information that you have not heard before but that we all need to be paying attention to because it is going to change everything you think you know literally about life. She basically reveals a lot about where money goes in our society. What is getting funded is going to shape the very genetics of humans in the future. It also, by the way, could mean the end of hangovers and diets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, look out for $4,000 plus Hermès bags not even made of leather. Yes, you heard that right. Now, at first, Amy's new book, The Genesis Machine: Our Quest to Rewrite Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology, which he co-wrote with scientist Andrew Hessel, may sound a bit intimidating, I certainly was. But I promise you, after our conversation, you're going to go out, you're going to get the book and you're going to read it. And by the way, she has many different accolades but Amy Webb is the founder and CEO of the Future Today Institute and a professor at NYU. Let's just get into it. Here is The Genesis Machine author, Amy Webb. Hey, Amy Webb, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Amy Webb:
Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is, in this case, sort of besides the point because I am having you on for reasons that are about money but also at a new level. Money plays a big role in the topic we're going to talk about, which is synthetic biology. We're going to get to that in a minute. But first, I want to just put it out there. Your futurist, your latest book is called The Genesis Machine: Our Quest to Rewrite Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology. It's about an emerging technology that's going to allow us basically to edit and design new forms of life. So, set us up here. Tell us about what all this means.

Amy Webb:
Sure. And I should qualify maybe, futurist sounds like a strange job title and so it could be easy to dismiss. Me, if I have to say, I would too. That's a ridiculous made-up sounding job title. My academic background is game theory in economics. This is a branch of research called strategic foresight. And so, we use data and build out models to try to see what's happening in the present and anticipate what could happen in the future. So, I just bring that up first because this is kind of a weird book. It's a book about the technology that pretty soon is going to allow us to edit, redesign, or totally design from scratch new forms of life. And that's important because it gives us the ability to deal with existential threats like climate change, we just got some pretty horrifying news from the UN a couple days ago, and also to manage and mitigate novel pathogens.

Amy Webb:
So, we've got risks on the horizon, but this is the same technology that helps us potentially improve the human condition and improve longevity. The book is about this area of science that kind of incorporates gene editing, and DNA sequencing, and synthetic biology. These are new relatively areas of science and tech that combines engineering, and design, and computer science. And essentially, what this allows researchers to do is to program biology the way that you might program a computer. If you kind of forgot what you learned in biology class in high school, it's totally fine because this book is written for everyday people to understand what's coming because what's coming is it is enormous. I think 10 years from now, we're going to look back at this moment in time and be able to see how clearly things were changing right before our eyes. I think we're going to eventually be talking about synthetic biology the way we talk about AI today.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this is, in fact, has a lot in common with AI which you covered in your previous book, including the story of where the money flows. Can you talk a little bit about the fact that a lot of science is very underfunded but yet it's interesting who is funding this and what money is going into this and what purpose that's going to have in the future.

Amy Webb:
Right. So, everybody's thinking about NFTs in the metaverse right now, but this is kind of a really interesting area that some big unusual names are paying very close attention to. Bill Gates is a big proponent of this tech and a big investor in this space. But so is Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt, as some of you probably know, used to be the head of Google. One of the things that's interesting is that there's actually kind of an overlap between the VCs, and the hedge funds, and a lot of the investment community that funds AI, and those who are funding the future of synthetic biology, as strange as that sounds. I can give you a concrete example. In part because of SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19, this acted as a catalyst. Suddenly, everybody was trying to find a way to test and diagnose and then treat this horrible pathogen.

Amy Webb:
But that had some interesting knock-on effects. I think it was like two weeks ago, some biotech veterans raised $3 billion, that is billion with a B, to create a new company called Altos Labs on the premise that the fundamental machinery of life, which is cells, can be reprogrammed. If they raised $3 billion, think of what the valuation, the pitch must be. I mean, it's like incomprehensible. I bring this up just to say this is not a bunch of weirdos playing biohacker in their garage. This is real stuff and this is on a long time horizon, and there are majors in the space that are investing. But also, Google has a division dedicated to research in this space, so does Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to figure out how to use DNA as a storage device, which is kind of insane, right? But they're working in this space too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah and I should say what you mean is to store data inside of DNA-

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which is bananas. One of my favorite parts of the book is you talk about the futures and you talk about different scenarios of how this could be used in our practical lives. And when you think about those scenarios, you think, "What would people pay for this?" For example, you talk about the idea of no longer having hangovers, of no longer having to diet when you want to lose weight because of the things that we can do to our food and to the way that we consume food. Tell us more about that, because to me, that's an investment I want to make-

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... both as a consumer, I want that technology, and also as an investor.

Amy Webb:
Right. On the consumer side of things, I think it's worth noting that you can already get an entire genome sequenced for less than the cost of a pair of Nike Air Jordans. And that's pretty spectacular that prices come down by orders of magnitude since the first human genome, with the first draft was completed in the early 2000s. What does that mean? That means that a lot of people are sending off their samples to 23andMe and similar types of services, which pre-COVID probably was a select few. But in the age of COVID, we're used to giving our DNA samples to anybody who feels like, literally in New York City, I had to get a COVID test a couple months ago and I went to a guy in a van. And I was like, "Yeah, take my data. I guess that's what we're doing now," which is terrifying at any rate.

Amy Webb:
There's just this entire economy that's blossoming, that's blossoming now, but there's some practical reasons why. So, with regard to Microsoft, at some point, our computers can only get so small and they can only get so powerful. And we also have a geopolitical problem because most of our semiconductors come from a troubled region of the world. So, I think some of what's going on here is, can we reduce some of the soul-crushing uncertainty of our supply chains? And can we shrink components down to like nanoscale? Which again, I know it sounds insane, but there's a company called Roswell Technology that just did this. They just made an announcement of the world's first molecular chip. It has 16,000 sensors on it, smaller than the size of a fingernail. It makes use of biology as a computing platform.

Amy Webb:
So, again, I know all this sounds crazy, but their practical reasons that we describe in the scenarios, obviously, this changes food. It means that a couple of Super Bowls from now, the 1.45 billion with a B chicken wings that we consume on a single day in the United States won't have to come from 750,000 chickens. We could get it all out of a bioreactor. And bioreactors could be in every town and every city so it drastically shorten supply chains. In the beauty space, that's actually a pretty mature area where this research is already being applied, so just different approaches to products that make your cells work for you versus a cream or something that layers on top of your skin and doesn't really solve any problems to totally different ways that were going to produce materials.

Amy Webb:
I've seen some leather already that is made out of mycelium. It's made out of the fibrous material that connects mushrooms. And you would never know the difference. In fact, Hermès, I don't, obviously I carry many Hermès's bags. I don't know how to say that correctly, I'm not fancy. They've got a bag coming out this year made of something that looks exactly like leather but is made out of a synthetic process. So, it's not like chemical-based, it's totally organic. It's just engineering cells to produce something different. That's going to retail for $4,000, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So wait, so just to circle back though in terms of the not gaining weight and in terms of the not having a hangover, because I know people want to hear that.

Amy Webb:
Yeah. So, there is a product, I think it's in the market already, it's an enzyme. It's kind of like functions a little bit like a probiotic. So, the idea is before were a night out drinking, you would take this enzyme and probably still get pretty drunk if that's what you were trying to do but it would prevent the after effects, the hangover part. But what's really interesting is, couldn't you just engineer a molecular whiskey or like a bioengineered wine to have that enzyme side of it already so that you just don't suffer those ill effects afterwards? And that research is underway and you can already buy some functional beverages that are hoping to do some of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the dieting?

Amy Webb:
The dieting is something that people are looking at. That one's a little bit more tricky because there is what causes hunger and then there's the mental, like the part of you that wants to eat, so there's deeply rooted psychological things that have to do with that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's out there but it's a longer timeline. All right. We don't have that much time left and I want to touch on risks. You talk about nine risks in the book. We can't go out to all of them. But one thing that I find fascinating is that you talked about, we gave our DNA to these random trucks on the street to get these tests for COVID. We leave DNA all over the place. And this is true, for example, you talked about the example of CEOs. They leave DNA all over the place. Someone could program, could somehow take the DNA and you could explain this better than I can, but they can be a little bit mischievous. Talk through that scenario of what could happen and how this could affect the company if the CEO's health is compromised through having their DNA effectively stolen.

Amy Webb:
Right. So, I know this sounds insane, but if you recall, President Macron of France met with Putin just before Russia started its attack and he refused to have a COVID test because he didn't want his data housed within Russia. And some people made fun of him but he was really smart to do that. A couple of years ago, there was a artists collective/activists collective that said that after WEF, so after the World Economic Forum Meeting in Davos, I was actually at that one, I'm assuming that I am nowhere near important enough that anybody went around to collect my stuff, my data, but they collected used napkins and coffee cups and things from world leaders and scraped the DNA off, had it sequenced and said, "We're going to auction off your sequences to the highest bidder."

Amy Webb:
Now, that is challenging to do but it's not impossible to do. And it does beg the question, "If I have your sequence, can I engineer something, some type of virus that is maybe not deadly but is debilitating?" And if you, as a CEO or you as a global leader had like chronic stomach pain or chronic diarrhea or something like that, the question I ask is, "Well, what fiduciary responsibility do you have to report that to your board and to shareholders and what do you do about it?" I mean, that's one of these weird questions, but we're already starting to see malware show up in sort of new ways and new forms of corporate espionage that involve biology. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could start seeing biological malware enter the mainstream here and there, which is kind of scary.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really scary. Okay, I'm going to pivot one last quick question.

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not a very smooth transition, but I know there's already ETFs out there that people can invest in.

Amy Webb:
Oh yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you share a little bit about how people can invest in this space?

Amy Webb:
Yeah. And I want to be clear, I'm not specifically making investment advice, but there are ETFs, there's also a lot of thematic investing, Cathie Wood's ARK capital management or is it ARK investments? So, synthetic biology is a big piece and they have an ETF. Franklin Templeton launched an ETF. So, there are funds that exist and they're performing pretty well, but there's also individual companies that either IPOed or SPACed. So, Ginkgo Bioworks is an example of the latter but they're performing pretty well. They make custom microbes. Twist Bioscience is a really interesting company. It's an infrastructure company and those are always good to look at when a new ecosystem is forming.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very, very interesting. And by the way, if anyone wants a little more incentive to buy Amy's book, there is more information on page 96. So, you got to go to the book to get more info. Amy, this has been amazing. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you. I know your book is available everywhere.

Amy Webb:
Thank you. The book's available everywhere. Independent local bookstore is terrific but it's also available on Amazon and Walmart and everywhere books are sold online. And if you're interested in trends and what's on the horizon, all of our work is open source and freely available to download at the futuretodayinstitute.com. We've got our 15th annual Tech Trends Report launching in about two weeks at South By South West. And there are, I guess you're the first to know this, we have 574 trends this year spread across 13 individual volumes and like 20 different industries. So, it's pretty enormous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Well, thank you so much for being here on Financial Grownup and good luck with everything. Thank you.

Amy Webb:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, I'll admit it, I am a little obsessed with this Hermès bag is going to be and whether it will be like synthetic diamonds where it is still not considered real or whether because it's so cool and new it's going to be considered something better than I guess what we would say the real thing was. This stuff is so cool. I also really found it interesting that we can all invest in synthetic biology. Let me know if you're going to do that. This episode was pretty intense, but I hope you enjoyed it. I usually cut interviews down but I did not want to have you guys miss anything I had to say. So, it is really all there and there is so much more in her book. So definitely, pick up Amy's book, The Genesis Machine. Check out the Future Today Institute for more incredibly cool info.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so generous that they make everything open source, so cool. If you enjoyed this episode, please share on social. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 if you do so. And big social media news, I started a TikTok channel. I have no idea what I'm doing so please follow me for all the cringiest videos ever. Super easy to find, just Bobbi Rebell, that is my TikTok handle. Thank you to everyone buying my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and for leaving reviews on Amazon. Algorithms pick up on that stuff so I really need your support. Please leave an Amazon review. Loved having Amy Webb of the Future Today Institute on talking about her latest bestseller, The Genesis Machine, and thanks Amy for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Let’s take the stress out of grownup life. Instead of lifestyle creep, embrace a lifestyle upgrade. Intimidated by the idea of building a full emergency fund? Just start with a short term crisis fund. Ashley Feinstein Gerstley walks us through how to be intentional with our money, and avoid information overload. 

Money Tips

• What you can do to prevent lifestyle creep.

• What is the difference between a crisis fund vs rainy day fund.

• Learn what a walkaway fund is.

• Learning the things you should and shouldn’t know in order to make things more manageable.

• Who couldn’t use some negotiation strategies?!

• Sinking funds - what are they and why should you know about them?

• It doesn’t have to be all or nothing

• Retirement does not have to be associated with age

• Riskiest part of investing is that we are human

---

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram - @thefiscalfemme

• Facebook - @TheFiscalFemme

• Twitter - @TheFiscalFemme

• LinkedIn - @knowing-your-worth

• Website - https://thefiscalfemme.com

• Tanja Hester’s episodes HERE and HERE

• Ashley’s book - Financial Adulting

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us and, of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child." And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Money Smart. I'm excited to share with all of you and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. And thank you for your support.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
It was this moment where as a financial adult in a different stage, I was very frugal. I wanted to reach these money goals. There's this point where it's like, "When do I want to invest in something that will really benefit my happiness?" And it's not a cheap thing to get a babysitter every single week. But it's something that we did, an investment we made, and it has been so incredible. So that was a conscious lifestyle upgrade I made versus allowing like expenses to creep in.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grownups, as I say, in the intro, being a grownup is hard. But you know what? There's so much great stuff that comes with being a grownup as well. And with, for example, we're going to talk about this, having a little more spending power as we grow into our adulthood and feel the confidence of being on track to our goals. And by the way, little tangent quickly. Speaking of goals, one of my goals is to start getting out and seeing more of you this spring and summer. My new book, Launching Financial Grownups, is coming out in just a couple of weeks. And if you, your company, an organization that you're part of, or just people in your life are looking for speakers or program ideas for this spring or summer, let's chat. Go to my website for more information, bobbirebell.com/speaking, to get in touch and for more information.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about this week's guest because she is one of my favorites and someone who shares my passion for helping us all be financial grownups. Ashley Feinstein Gerstley is the author of the new book, Financial Adulting. It's a guide that breaks down everything that we need to know to be financially confident and conscious as adults. Ashley is also a money coach, author of The 30-Day Money Cleanse, and the founder of The Fiscal Femme, a money platform on a mission to end inequality through financial wellbeing. And as you will hear, I got so engrossed in our conversation that I actually lost track of the money tips that Ashley was sharing. Turned out there were nine and each one was really cool. Here is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, welcome back to the podcast. You are a financial grownup and you're also a financial adult.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So guys, I'm joking about that, because Ashley has a new book out called Financial Adulting. Nothing, by the way, like my previous book, How to Be a Financial Grownup. It's a very different take that I absolutely love. And so tell us about it. Welcome back.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you. Financial Adulting. I'm so excited about it. It basically covers all of the money topics. And I interviewed 35 experts for the book. A wide range of diverse experts. I'd say part how to. Or mostly a how to, with some expose in there. So it's fun. I think I let some more of my humor through than I did in my last book. And I'm just excited for it to be out in the world.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. And it has a lot of personality to it. And so I feel like we can kind of be with you on this journey. And also, there's a lot of data that is sort of jaw-dropping. I'm going to leave that to people to read in the actual book. What I did is when I went through, I kind of took some notes. And so I'm going to ask you to expand on some of the big themes that jumped out at me. Starting with, okay, this is one... And this is where you show your personality. You also show sort of the maturity of coming at money as a financial adult. You talk about the difference between lifestyle creep, which is something people warn against, and lifestyle upgrade. Ashley, so what's the difference?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Lifestyle creep, I feel like it's more happening behind the scenes. Whereas an upgrade is very intentional. We're consciously choosing to add something or pay for something or do something in our life. I had an example recently. I was with my parents on a vacation in North Carolina and we had the two kids and it was kind of wild. We didn't get to do a lot of things because we were busy with the kids. And my mom challenged me actually. She's like, "I challenge you to get a babysitter every single Saturday." She said it would be life...

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
And it was this moment where as a financial adult in a different stage, I was very frugal. I wanted to reach these money goals. There's this point where it's like, "When do I want to invest in something that will really benefit my happiness?" And it's not a cheap thing to get a babysitter every single week. But it's something that we did, an investment we made, and it has been so incredible. So that was a conscious lifestyle upgrade I made versus allowing like expenses to creep in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. All right. You also talk about the difference between a crisis fund, a rainy day fund, and a walk away fund. Talk about that.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. So I would define crisis fund as like the minimum amount of rainy day fund we need in case of a crisis, something happening. Losing our job, a large health-related expense coming up, we want some cash set aside for that. Rainy day, I would say is a bigger fund than that. It's kind of like our ideal, what we'd want to have set aside. And I walk through in the book how to price it out, how much you want to have in there. But there's like the crisis minimum cash you want to have then the ideal. And then the walk away is actually to protect us in our relationships.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
And this was something that Dasha Kennedy, in my interview with her, talked about. That, especially women, having money set aside in case we need to walk away because in a time where 99% of cases of abuse include financial abuse. And so to have these funds available, without having to wait or put things on credit cards, if you need to get out of a situation is a very powerful thing. And so the walk away fund, she recommended six months of expenses to have, that you just have that cash available in the case you need to walk away.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's really important. Something I experienced when my marriage early in life broke up. I was really happy to have that financial stability. It was really, really important. Okay. The third financial adulting tip is knowing what you need to know, but also what you don't need to know to make things more manageable. This is about living in reality, not aspiration, right?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. And there's just so much financial information, right? There's channels. So many books, articles. I think we can get very overwhelmed in that information overload. And there's always more to learn and new things happening, and it can have us never take action. So knowing what we need to know and kind of filtering out the rest is really key to financial adulting, because then we can take action and take steps to move forward in our financial lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, you definitely can get that like analysis paralysis, I think they call it.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you just can't get anything done. It's almost like when you go to the supermarket and there's just too many choices. And sometimes it's better to go to a smaller store where there aren't as many options.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. The fourth tip is negotiating. Okay. When you're negotiating, one thing you tell people to do is to document your work along the way. And this goes to preparation, which can kind of be applied to so many different things and organization.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. So I recommend keeping a success log. And this is actually something that happened to me. You have a big success at work or something goes well with the project and you assume you'll always remember that. How could I forget? That went so well. And then you go into your negotiation conversation or your year-end review with your boss or manager and you draw a blank. Like what did I even do over the last six months? What were the results?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
So as you have successes, big and small, I highly recommend documenting them. What went well with a certain team? What was the result for the company? And then when it's time to go into that meeting, you have this laundry list of things that you accomplished. It's also really good for those down days where you're not feeling really great. You can read that list and give yourself a little pep talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also sometimes assume that our bosses know all the stuff that we did. But the truth is we often barely remember. The bosses forget it. They don't know. They're doing their best, but they're worried about their career. They are not taking notes to make sure that they do the absolute best review of you possible. I mean, some might. But generally it's better to have that covered yourself. Okay. I think we're up to five. The fifth financial adulting tip is let's talk about the concept of sinking funds.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
It's called a sinking fund probably because it's a fund that we build up to sink. So the point of it is to spend it. You can use them for all kinds of things. I recommend if there's ever an expense that tends to make your budget feel really tight or out of whack, and it messes up cashflow, and that could be... Travel is a very common sinking fund. A travel or vacation fund or a holiday fund. Or I have one for my dogs, medical bills, in case something big happens that I don't have to stress about money in case she needs something. So sinking funds are... I recommend putting them in an online savings account. Having each one have its own bucket. And transferring money every paycheck, every week, every month. Whatever cadence works for you towards that fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial adulting tip... I think we're up to seven. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. This can apply to so many things. One reason we often don't plan for different goals or for different expenses is because we don't have all the information and we're not sure what it's going to be. Or when we're thinking about goals, especially really long term ones like retirement or paying for our children's education, there's so many variables and we don't know when we're going to die or what our investments will earn or what taxes will be. And so moving towards the goal, generally checking in is so much better than not doing anything because we can't know everything. So I think... And reaching a goal part way versus all the way is so much better than not reaching it at all. So moving towards goals and giving ourselves from grace for this like perfect number we have to reach.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, it's like when you're losing weight. If you try to lose weight and you want to lose 10 pounds and you lose seven, well, you lost seven. So it's okay. I mean, you can still work on the extra three. But you did lose seven, so you probably feel a lot better. All right. I've lost count. So we're on the second to the last one. Okay. Retirement does not have to be associated with age. And you do a nod to the FIRE movement, but it's not just about the FIRE movement, which is the financial independence, retire early. It's about really thinking about what the word retirement means.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
I think the word retirement comes with a lot of different connotations. And that's kind of what I wanted to have people reframe because we often don't feel connected to that goal, especially if you're earlier in your career because you think it is an age. So that's why in the chapter on retirement, I called it work optional, because that's really what it is. We're saving to have enough money to not have to work, to be able to choose to do a different kind of work, to have more flexibility. And that can happen whenever you reach that goal. And I think that makes it a little more exciting and a little more tangible when we're saving up for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it can also be a season of our life that we do that. And then we go back to doing maybe the same thing or maybe something different. And by the way, I do want to acknowledge that in the book, you do this too. That that is a nod to our mutual friend, Tanja Hester. She was on this podcast talking about her book, Work Optional. We can leave a link for that in the show notes, as we like to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, last one. I love this one the best, because it's about investing, the riskiest part. And this is epic that you say this because it's obvious and yet I don't think I've heard anyone say this. The riskiest part of investing is that we are human. I love that, Ashley.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you. It's great to be called epic, you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
It is, but it's everything, because that's what it is. We are human. I mean, I remember the first time I was able to buy into... Not that it's happened so often. But I was able to buy into an IPO. And I thought I really had it emotionally managed because I'd been a journalist for years covering IPOs. And I knew intellectually how it works and how people react and the kind of mistakes people made. And I still was a wreck. I was an emotional wreck when that happened. And I didn't know what to do and it [inaudible 00:13:41]. And so I sold half to take it off the table and then it cratered. So I lost the other half, so I came out even. But let me tell you, I was so human in that moment. Even though I knew intellectually exactly what to do, I was just a wreck.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. And you hear it over and over. Buy low, sell high. Invest for the long term. Don't look at your investments. But it truly is so different when it's happening, when you're in the moment, when you're seeing things on the news and people are saying, "The market will never be the same," or whatever it is. So some of the things to combat that, that we talk about in the book, is like investing for the long term. Not needing the money in the short term. Not looking. Understanding that we don't actually lose or make money until we sell the investment. So that's also helpful to remember, because I think there's always like, "Oh, I made $500 today," or "I lost $5,000 today." And that's not really the case. It's [inaudible 00:14:39] all the case until you actually sell is when it's a realized investment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And don't forget, you will pay taxes, which you also do cover very well in the book. All right, let's wrap this up, my friend. Tell us where we can find out more about you and Financial Adulting, the book?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
You can find more about the book at financialadultingbook.com. And follow along me and the rest of the things going on at The Fiscal Femme.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know they say save the best for last. But my favorite tip was actually the first one about lifestyle upgrade as opposed to lifestyle creep. As we can see from all that is going on in the world, from COVID to war, it is important to remember that while we want to be thoughtful about planning for the future, we must live our lives in the present as well. And be so appreciative of all that we have and we should never take for granted, including our health and being able to live in a peaceful country. Nothing is guaranteed.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please be in touch with me. I would love to hear from all of you, what resonated with you about my interview with Ashley? You can DM me on Instagram, @bobbirebell1. And also, be in touch by being part of my newsletter. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, to sign up for that. Make sure to check out Ashley's book as I mentioned, Financial Adulting. And thank you so much to Ashley Feinstein Gerstley for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Cameron Huddleston is back on the podcast to share how we can help our older loved ones with daily money matters and other financial support- even if we are not prepared. 

Tips on how to protect your parents and grandparents money

• Learn what you can be doing to prepare right now.

• What you should be trying to get our older relatives to do.

• If you find yourself having to help, but you haven’t done any prep work, what can you do to from there.

• How can you be there for those you love, but also maintain your own life?

• Learn about some financial resources that are out there that you can utilize

---

Follow Cameron!

• Instagram - @cameronkhuddleston

• Facebook - @CameronHuddlestonMoneyExpert

• Twitter - @CHLebedinsky

• LinkedIn - @cameron-huddleston

• Website - https://cameronhuddleston.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Money Smart. I'm excited to share with all of you and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Cameron Huddleston:
I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea. And someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this

Bobbi Rebell:
Brace yourself, my grownup friends. Most of us are so used to thinking of our parents as our safety net and our support system. There are going to be seasons of our life, maybe for you it has already happened, when we may need to step up, take care of our older loved ones, not just managing their healthcare, but also their money related life stuff. Bills don't just get paid. Someone needs to make sure their lives, their financial lives specifically, are kept running and in order. And I'm going to make sure all of you are prepared if you invest the time to listen to this week's episode, because nothing says grown up like having to take care of your older loved ones, whether it be parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or just special people in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cameron Huddleston is the author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk. She is now the director of education and content for Carefull, that is with two Ls, and she has a lot of great advice and wisdom on this topic to share with us. Here is Cameron Huddleston. Cameron Huddleston. Welcome back to the podcast. You are still very much such a financial grownup. Nice to see you, my friend.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you so much for having me back on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked you to come back on because I want you to talk about something that is really top of mind for so many people. With COVID 19, we've all been more in touch than ever with different special members of our family, often older members of our family, and much more aware of what's going on with them, checking in with them about their health. But also this has opened up an opportunity for new awareness and new discussions and new planning when it comes to money matters for our older loved ones. You, by the way, since we last talked now work with a company that really helped people with that. Tell us what you've been up to give us a little update and a little context on why you're so interested in this topic.

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. Well, of course it's personal for me because my mom had Alzheimer's disease and I was her caregiver for 12 years. Even though I was providing hands on care for about four years, for eight years, I was managing her finances while she was in a memory care facility. In addition to that, I am working for a new company called Carefull with two Ls, and Carefull is the first service that's built specifically to help organize and protect aging adults' daily finances. It's desktop service and a mobile app. You can link it to your bank and your credit of card accounts. And it's going to monitor those accounts 24/7 for common money mistakes, sign of fraud. There's also credit monitoring and personal information monitoring. And so you get alerts when it spots something unusual and it's really a great way to protect your finances as you age, protect them against fraud and protect them against those late payments that you might be accidentally making or not realizing that you're making because there's a cognitive decline issue.

Bobbi Rebell:
We can see each other. We're both nodding. I mean, it happens a lot and it happens a lot in a way that we don't always discover until it's too late. My husband had a friend who found out the friend's parents had literally been scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars. And it was not that recent. And it's hard to even tell whether the parents knew it happened and were embarrassed and didn't want to tell anyone or were not even aware. So it's really important that we stay on top of the finances of those that we love and also that we use the tools that are now available, that weren't available until recently to automate that and have these digital check-ins that we can do.

Bobbi Rebell:
But let's talk more about the broad picture. I mean, we think about, for example, I pay for long term healthcare insurance. So if something happens, my husband and I will have some money that will pay for us to be in a long-term care facility. So we are used to thinking about physical care for older people, but we don't think about having this financial safety net. Tell us more about where to even begin with this if you are someone that has older people in your life that you care about, whether they be relatives or just people that you love.

Cameron Huddleston:
Really, it all begins with conversations. Oftentimes we don't want to broach conversations about money because they seem really awkward, and you might have been raised in a household where your parents told you that it was impolite to talk about money. So the idea of going to your parents and saying, "Hey, mom and dad, I want to discuss your finances with you," can sound really intimidating, but this is where it has to start. These conversations are so important and you need to be having them before there's any sort of healthcare emergency, before there's any sort of financial emergency, because if you wait to have these conversations, at that point, it can be too late. There's not going to be a plan to deal with the emergency. Emotions are going to be running high. And who wants to talk about finances when there is some sort of healthcare emergency? And the bigger issue is that there might not be the legal documents in place that give you right to step in and make financial and healthcare decisions for your parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
What specifically should people be doing in advance to be prepared, one, for the big picture things that you're talking about, and two, for just the daily money matters that they might need to step in and help with?

Cameron Huddleston:
An easy way to kind of get this conversation started and to get information that you need is to ask your parents about what if scenarios. We're still in a pandemic, right? And so what if, mom or dad, you end up getting COVID and you're in the hospital and you can't pay your bills for a week or for two weeks while you're in the hospital or longer? What do I need to know about making sure as bills get paid? Asking about these sort of what if scenarios is a very easy and natural way to start the conversation.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if we get the pushback? Because that does happen a lot. I have older relatives in my family that will not talk about their money. It is no one else's business. I don't know why, but it happens. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Cameron Huddleston:
You are not alone. It does happen. You know, fortunately I've heard that most parents are willing, but of course not all. And when you get pushed back, a couple things that you can try. If your parents or aging loved ones don't want to tell you information, maybe they would be willing to write it down. That allows them to maintain control over the information. So say, "Look, I get it. It's awkward. And you probably don't think it's any of my business right now. And really it isn't right now, but it might be some day. And so when that time comes, it would be nice if I had a list that I could go to of your accounts and how to access those accounts and what bills you pay and how they're paid and where the estate planning documents are and where the insurance policies are. Make this list for me, please. Put it someplace safe and tell me how to access it." If they are not willing to listen to you, they might listen to a third party. Maybe you reach out to their accountant, their financial advisor, their doctor, even.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about if you're in a situation where you do need to step in and you do not have this information? Where can you get it? What resources are out there?

Cameron Huddleston:
So you're going to have to play detective, most likely. And the key thing is, first of all, to find out what sort of estate planning documents do they have? Have they named you or someone else in your family power of attorney to make financial decisions for them? You cannot talk to your parents' bank, their insurance companies, their credit card companies, unless you have been named power of attorney and you have that document. So you go to your parents' house and you check the desk drawers, you check the filing cabinet if there's a filing cabinet, you check the closets and you search for these estate planning documents. Maybe they have a home safe. Maybe you know who their attorney is. And so you call up the attorney and say, "Hey, do you know if mom has named a power of attorney? Do you know who that person is? Do you have any idea where that document might be?"

Cameron Huddleston:
Because typically attorneys are not going to hang on to these documents in their office. And so you start there and maybe you don't know this information from your mom, but maybe your mom has happened to say something to your aunt and your aunt knows, "Oh yeah, I know she did that a long time ago and it's in the home safe. And here's the combination. She happened to give it to me." So you play detective. That's where you start. And then you're going to have to go through the may to figure out what sort of bills are paid. If you have any way to access their computer, for example, and you can check emails to see what sort of statements that they're getting electronically.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are some of the red flags to know that you should get proactively involved, even if they're not in the sort of distress situation that we were alluding to earlier?

Cameron Huddleston:
Well, here's something interesting Bobbi, the researchers at John's Hopkins found that those with Alzheimer's disease and related dementias show a pattern of missed and late payments up to six years before there's ever a diagnosis. So your parent, your aging loved one, could be making all sorts of money mistakes before you even start to see really obvious signs of memory loss. Obviously at that point, the damage could be severe. I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea, and someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No one had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they had the money to pay it. He just wasn't paying it.

Cameron Huddleston:
Right. He had just forgotten to send in the payments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Cameron Huddleston:
So here are some of the signs that you can look for that your parent might be experiencing cognitive decline, and if there's cognitive decline, that means their financial decision making ability is already impaired. So obvious ones like notices for late payments, collection notices that you see sitting on the dining room table, parents not paying the bills. And if you know they've got money to pay the bills, there's something going on here. If you go out to dinner with mom and dad and they're offering to pay for dinner, but then they can't figure out how to compute a tip or they can't figure out, let's say the check is $50 and they're pulling out a 20 thinking that's going to cover. So there's obviously signs with math and the inability to handle just simple mathematical tasks.

Cameron Huddleston:
Other mathematical errors that might be obvious. If they're writing a check and they can't remember how to fill out that check or how to put the date on the check, this is a sign that something's going on. But then also if you're going to your parents' house and you notice that it was once always tidy and organized, and now it seems to be disorganized, there's plates in this sink, there's just piles of clothes everywhere and you know that they're still physically capable of handling those tasks, it could be a sign that there is cognitive decline because familiar tasks become more difficult to complete. If there are sticky notes or reminder notes all over the house, and they're telling and your parents how to do things that seem really obvious, like how to turn on the cable TV, this is a sign that something's going on and you shouldn't ignore these signs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm just sitting here absorbing all of this. Anything else I should have asked you?

Cameron Huddleston:
Here's one more thing to look out for. If your parents mail is full of charitable donation requests, or a lot of those sweepstakes entry forms, if they're getting a lot of those, that's a good sign that your parents have already been making donations. Their names are on lists and charities and other organizations are reaching out to them. And if you see a lot of those gifts that charities send, like a blanket, the little stickers that you can put on your envelopes with your address, calendars, if there are lots of those gifts that are showing up in your parents' house, that also means that they are making donations. Now, if you know your parents are givers naturally, but they seem to be giving a lot more money, that's a sign that their financial decision making ability is impaired potentially. And again, you've got to get involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You have to just not always assume everything is okay just because they tell you that on your weekly phone call. You need to get involved, ask the right questions and show up in person sometimes, or make sure that if you have siblings or other relatives that can come in and do things, like physically look at the mail, because a lot of older people do still get physical bills. That's a really important thing to be able to check and make sure you guys put together a safety net as grownups to take care of the people that you love in your life. Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where of people learn more about what you're off to and about Carefull?

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. So you can find out more about me at CameronHuddleston.com and you can learn about Carefull at GetCarefull.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really appreciate Cameron being so candid about her own life. It's tough. It's also stuff that we need to hear and we need to hear real examples of how this impacts our lives. Hopefully we've inspired some of you to take action and have those uncomfortable conversations, and maybe they won't be as cringey as we fear. And by the way, this is something that I struggle with. It's not always successful. So you may have to kind of regroup, give it a little bit of time and just try again. It's not easy. I would love to hear your tips on getting past awkward conversations when it comes to talking to parents. And then also, when it comes to talking to younger generations about money stuff. That is a lot of the focus of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I am both excited and really, really nervous, actually really nervous for it finally, coming out. Years in the making.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of free giveaways to get people to pre-order. I'm putting my time, and yes, money instead into this podcast and my newsletter, which remain free for all of you. And I really want to keep my focus on keeping those two things the highest quality that I possibly can and not being distracted. So that's what I'm doing. So what I ask all of you in return is that you help me get the word out by pre-ordering the book and also encouraging others that you think might like it to do so as well. You can learn more about the book on my website, BobbiRebell.com/LaunchingFinancialGrownups. And by the way, you can also sign up for my free newsletter there as well on the website. Big thanks as always to my dear friend, Cameron Huddleston, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work

Money Tips

1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.

2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.

3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.

---

Follow Jill!

• Instagram - @jilleduffy

• Twitter - @jilleduffy

• Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/

• Jill’s book - The Everything Guide to Remote Work

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?

Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.

Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.

Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.

Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?

Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.

Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.

Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?

Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.

Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.

Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?

Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.

Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?

Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"

Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."

Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?

Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

• Learn how common the Career Blahs

• Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

• Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

• Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

---

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - WhitneyJohnson.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Careers Done Write’s Debra Wheatman shares her best tips for Grownups to level up their careers in the new year. 

Career Tips for 2022

• Write down a list of these things so that you can visualize them.

• Think about what you would like to achieve in the coming year.

• Create a plan for getting there. Perhaps you’re looking to be promoted, switch industries, or change careers altogether.

• Do you feel like you’re too busy to focus on managing your career and your brand?

• Another thing that will help you in the coming year is single-tasking.

• How are you at building relationships?

• Challenge the status quo.

---

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting; t-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Debra Wheatman:
If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as you may have guessed from the opening sound bite, we're going to talk about careers. I have been having a bit of the career blahs lately. I sense a lot of people do as we are entering year three of the pandemic, which was supposed to be staying home 15 days to stop the spread. Yeah. Well it is what it is. So here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I decided we should do a little miniseries of career episodes for financial grownups starting with this week's guest, who's amazing. Her name is Debra Wheatman. She runs a company called Careers done Write, and Write is spelled W-R-I-T-E. Her genius is in the fact that Debra helps people not just figure out what they're good at and what they should be getting paid for, she also helps kind of package it all up so that your best attributes are front and center and help you land that dream job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Highlights of our interview included talking about the mistakes that we make when we're choosing a career. It was interesting because she has a very different perspective from what I think a lot of parents tell their young adult children. She also has a lot to say about the urge to multitask and some their very interesting suggestions there that you are going to want to hear. She also shares her take on the whole work from home thing, how it's evolving, what we should sort of make ourselves do in person maybe, but also some things that may be better off, I don't know, remotely. It's all okay. You'll love to hear what Debra has to say, so here is the interview with Debra Wheatman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Debra Wheatman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a human capital management strategist. Your company, by the way, is called Careers Done Write. What does that mean?

Debra Wheatman:
Well, we're a writing company and we're a branding company. We work with our clients to help them define, manage, maintain, and grow their brands so they can be successful in their careers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so much more relevant than ever with all the changes going on in the workplace. We don't know what is going on for 2022 in terms of how things will evolve with work from home, with working in the gig economy, how companies are evolving. So this is something that everyone needs to pay attention to, especially our grownups. Let's get into your tips for 2022.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing is just to write things down so you can visualize them. That's something we hear a lot, but you have a different spin on it.

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah. If you write things down, you're obviously going to be more inclined to not only remember them because there's a lot going on upstairs, we don't retain information just by saying, "Well, I'm going to do this. I mean, how many times have you said, "I'm going to do this," and then you forget about it. People do that all the time. If you write things down, you're not only more than likely to then commit to getting them done, crossing them off your list, but also that sense of accomplishment that you get when you write them down, when you complete them, and it allows you to move ahead with purpose. I like to say that because that's an important part of job search, it's an important part of your professional, your personal life, and gives you a feeling of accomplishment when you write things down and then you check them off as you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say that you have to think about what you want to achieve in the coming year, but also very specifically create a plan for being there and be specific. Are you looking to be promoted? Are you looking to switch industries? Are you looking to just change careers altogether? And this is an opportune time because so many different industries are open-minded about maybe mentoring somebody and bringing someone into the fold that they might not have looked at before, but now they need people. So this is kind of a good time, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah, this is definitely a job seekers market. If you are in the middle of the opportunity to do something different, something that maybe has driven you in the past or something that you want to get involved in, now might be a good time to do that because there's been a lot of upheaval. And as a result, because it is a job seekers market, you have more of an opportunity to spread your wings, explore new things and do something perhaps that maybe inspires you in a new and different way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, a lot of people listening to this might say, but, but, but, somehow I'm just so busy. When the pandemic started, we were home and we had so much time. We were baking bread. I did that. We were doing all kinds of home projects. We were having little wine, coffee hours, wine happy hours, whatever you might call it, because we suddenly felt like we had so much time, and now I don't know where the time is going. I mean, we're all so busy. So what do you say to people that just say, I feel like I'm so busy, I don't have time to manage my career or my brand?

Debra Wheatman:
I say to that, that you don't not have time to do it. That is a thing that should be a priority for you because your career, your brand, while I like to think that people are altruistic, there's no altruism when it comes to your ability and the need to make money. You have to support yourself. Maybe you have a family, you're beholden to other people. Whatever it is at the end of the day, the ability to make money and have a life that you want to lead, and take a vacation even, is predicated on your ability to make money. You also, at some point in your life, you're going to retire. You're not going to be working well into your 90s. What does that look like for you? If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting that you say that because we also do have this movement, especially stereotyping a little bit, but maybe not too much, especially among young people that really want to follow their passions and do good, and they get told, well, sometimes that's not going to pay as much. It's a delicate balance because people feel like it's the right thing to do to take these sometimes jobs that don't pay as much in money, but pay a lot in feel good, but they're doing themselves a disservice sometimes when they don't prioritize money.

Debra Wheatman:
That is true. I would say there's more than one way to make yourself feel good and get that gratification that you're looking for. Maybe you don't necessarily do it in your "day job". Maybe you volunteer for an organization that is close to your heart, where you have a really strong connection. Instead of looking at it like I have to do work in this particular area, there are other ways that you can actually give back and get that same thing while still making money that supports you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another misconception is that people feel like if they can multitask, they'll get more done. You are against multitasking for sure.

Debra Wheatman:
Multitasking is not always a great thing. I do like to call it single-tasking instead. You should do one thing, try to complete that and do it properly. If you multitask, you're not going to do any of the things that you have on your list in a way that is either completed or satisfactory to you. If you focus on the one thing and get that thing done, it will be done properly. It will be done on time. It will be done according to the specifications that you hold yourself accountable to, and then you can move on to the next task. And that goes back to my earlier point, what you were asking me about prioritizing and making lists. This is why writing things down is important because then you could check it off, and the single task that you completed, victory is yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
The multitasking, you get sucked into it when you work from home. I mean, I definitely have gotten to the like, oh, I should be doing this, but I'm also doing the laundry and I'm also making lunch for my child, and I'm also doing all this because I have to get it all done. It's really dangerous. We really need to get that under control because we don't know if and when we're going back to the office full time, and we have to find ways to kind of settle in and create new ways to work at home, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, absolutely. Of course feeding your child and doing the laundry and cooking dinner so that everybody has something to eat, all of those things are very important, but if you don't finish the one thing that you had to do that you said I'm going to finish this and then I can move on to this next task, that's an interrupt-driven work style. And I know, because I'm sometimes guilty of that. You'll never get any of them done. And you'll find that instead of getting this thing done and then being able to go and make dinner, if you will, neither of those things will be complete. And the thing that you had to get done that was sort of for traditional work, you're going to be doing that at 10 o'clock at night. How are you going to feel about that? Versus getting it done and finishing it and then saying, okay, once I'm finished with this, I'm now going to go do this other thing that I need to accomplish over here.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really hard, but we do have to learn to set those boundaries because it felt temporary at first, but now a lot of us if we're not going to work from home all the time, it's still going to be a part of our life. One of the hard things also about working from home or even in a hybrid environment is building relationships. Can you talk a little bit about your advice for that and how it pertains to sort of up-leveling your career in 2022?

Debra Wheatman:
Sure. Building relationships is difficult in an online world because while you can see people, the connection that you get from being in person is just not the same thing. The other thing is that you're scheduling these meetings, you're scheduling a Zoom call. It seems sort of disingenuous in some way. I'm going to speak to you today. I'm going to see you on Zoom at 4:00 PM. Versus saying, you know what, meet me at the restaurant. We're going to have some coffee, some wine and some dinner and just get together in person. People like to be around other people. This situation in particular has proven challenging for a number of people because of that.

Debra Wheatman:
Now given the situation that we're in, this is a good way to still connect with people and build those bridges as long as you use the time wisely, as long as it's meaningful for you, with the understanding that when it is safe to go back and meet in person, and when it's feasible to do that, we're going to resume those activities because again, people do like to be around other people. And proximity to other people, not just through a screen, it's important. It's good for our mental wellbeing. It's good for our physical wellbeing. To be able to give someone a hug is an important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
The last point I want to bring up, I can't believe this, we're entering year three. Debra, I remember when they said 15 days to stop the spread. Now we're entering the third year of 2022. We have a new status quo. You say challenge the status quo.

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, challenge the status quo. You don't have to continue to do the same things the way you've done them in the past. The pandemic has taught us if nothing else, that life is fleeting. It has taught us that we can work from home. We can do these things successfully. I know a number of people, a number of my clients who are far more efficient, far more effective working from home than they ever were in the office. And their bosses have said, you know what, stay at home. You're doing great. We love having you there. You're so efficient. Continue to do what you're doing. This is working out wonderfully.

Debra Wheatman:
That doesn't mean that you don't want to show up in the office because you want to show up at some point, out of sight, out of mind, and you want to have a little bit of a balance, but if you're effective working from home and that works for you, then you should pursue that path. And the state of the market the way it is today, the jobs they are showing us online, hybrid, fully remote, in-office, so we're having the opportunity to see what that looks like.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and be in touch?

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you. Yes, if people want to learn more, they can find me debra@careersdonewrite.com. That is my email. You can also go to my website, careersdonewrite. And that's like writing; W-R-I-T-E.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. One of my favorite things about getting to know Debra in that interview is that while she had a definite point of view about things like not taking a low paying job to quote, follow your passion and instead, maybe taking a higher paying job and using that to support your passion or support a cause that you really care about. She's totally nonjudgmental, and it's tough to walk that line. So I think it was pretty cool the way that she approached it. By the way, she is working on a book called Help! To Hired, which will help all of us find meaningful work, but in a way that also helps get you to your financial goals. So keep an eye out for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Speaking of books, my book, Launching Financial Grownups, is on presale. You can buy it in all the usual places. If you go to my website, which is bobbirebell.com, you can learn more about it. It is a huge help if you order it in advance because it helps with algorithms, and it lets the places that sell books know that people are interested, and then those places in turn will make the book more discoverable.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of elaborate pre-order giveaways. That would take a lot of time and money and effort and all that kind of stuff, but I'm putting my effort into things like keeping this podcast super high quality and free for all of you, but it is something that takes time and money. I also put a lot of money and time into my newsletter, also free to you. So your support with the book pre-orders is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next two weeks of this career video series are going to be incredible. I have Whitney Johnson. She is huge coming up next. Her new book is called Smart Growth. We're going to be talking with her more directly about those career blogs that I mentioned at the top of this show and how to get motivated again. And then I'm going to be speaking with Jill Duffy. She wrote The Everything Guide to Remote Work. So please make sure you are a subscriber or are following the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. And please tell your friends to do so as well. I really appreciate your support of the podcast as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, big thanks to Debra Wheatman. Check out her blog at Careers Done Write. She also has a great newsletter, so I encourage you to get on her list as well. And truly grateful for her advice to help us all beat financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbierebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for grown up friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The Success Factor author explains how to know what kind of mentor you need, how to look for one in sometimes unexpected places, and the best ways to get top mentors to help you achieve your goals.

Learn Why You Need A Mentor, Where To Find Them, And More!

Learn what the 24/7/30 rule is and how it can help to grow your network.

How to approach someone to be your mentor.

Be open to learning from anyone and at any age. You never know when or where you will run into your next mentor.

Be open and honest with your mentor. If you don’t know how to do something, tell them.

---

Follow Ruth!

• Instagram - @ruthgotian

• Twitter - @ruthgotian

• LinkedIn - @rgotian

• YouTube

• Website - https://www.ruthgotian.com

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• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes, we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So, it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. T-shirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He told me at the Olympic Village they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control. He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. I hope everyone is staying healthy and safe these days. Last week, I talked about the use it or lose it strategy and how, as hard as the last two years have been with COVID, when we are ready, we really should try to get on with it when it comes to our goals. Many of us hit pause on a lot of stuff and just sat still for a while. And at a certain point, I think a lot of us have to decide if the pause is a stop and exit or if we are going to hit play again and move forward. And it is with that in mind that I am excited to share my interview with Dr. Ruth Gotian. She is the chief learning officer and assistant professor of education in anesthesiology and former assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell Medicine.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's more. She also writes a fantastic Forbes column that I have been binging on. But I wanted her to come on the podcast because of her new book, The Success Factor. For the book, she talked to super high achievers, Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, top athletes to kind of figure out what they all had in common. One highlight that I'm excited to share with you is what she had to say about mentoring and a very well known doctor that she talked to. I hope you enjoy our chat. Here is Dr. Ruth Gotian. Dr. Ruth Gotian, welcome to the podcast. You are a financial grownup.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I am, I guess.

Bobbi Rebell:
You absolutely are. You are so amazing. I mean, look, I've already introduced you to our listeners, but you studied the mindset and skillset of peak performers including Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, Olympic champions, Dr. Anthony Fauci. We're going to talk about that later. You put it all into a new book called The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I did. For years, and years, and years, I literally got a doctorate in success. I'm not obsessed with it. I want to know how people get it and how the rest of us can attain it and keep it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, one of the things that caught my eye in your work is that you really focus on mentoring. I mean, that's been something that's been a big part of your career. You were the assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell. Now, what role does mentoring play in success?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
All of the extreme high achievers who I've interviewed, and it ranges from, as you said, the Nobel Prize winners, the astronauts, the NBA champions, Olympic champions, CEOs, every single one of them had not one mentor but a team of mentors. So, instead of looking for that one perfect person, they created their version of perfect by surrounding themselves with people who believed in them more than they believed in themselves. And if that's what the astronauts, and the Olympic champions, and the Nobel Prize winners do, why aren't the rest of us doing that?

Bobbi Rebell:
How do we even get started identifying what we need? And especially in the pandemic, which as of now, I mean, there's still a lot of things keeping us from doing those IRL things that used to be a resource. What do we do now given where we are in the world?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I actually think it's easier now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hmm, interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Because, yes, because you're no longer confined to the people who are close to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
You can actually spread your wings and find mentors from all over the world. So, what are some of the ways that we can find mentors when we can't meet face to face? Well, if you ever listen to a podcast, if you ever listen to a lecture or a workshop or a YouTube video, or took a class, or you're in these meetings at work, listen to what is being said, listen to the person who is talking. But, and here's the secret that most people don't do, pay attention to the comments. The people who are attending, whatever it is that you are actually watching and participating in, they have the same ideas, they have the same vision, they have the same hopes and goals. They want to learn from whoever is the presenter. So, you have that commonality.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Now, if they made a comment that really resonated with you, you should reach out to them and say, "You know, Bobbi, I really loved what you said about blah, blah, blah that really resonated with me because of whatever." And then, you start connecting with them on social media and then you start engaging with their posts, and then you can start sharing information with what my friend, Andy Lopata, calls the 24/7/30 rule. Which is, after you meet someone, your first point of contact is 24 hours later, second point of contact is seven days later, and then the third point of contact is 30 days later. Now, at this point, you are no longer a stranger. You've actually communicated with someone, you've been engaging with them, not so much that you're stalking, but engaging with their content. Now, the thing is, you don't ever ask someone to be your mentor, because, "I don't know about you. I think we're all busy, really busy."

Bobbi Rebell:
It feels like another to-do item on my list-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when someone says that to me.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly. It feels like another obligation, doesn't it?

Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
So, don't ask someone to do that because that almost feels like, "Ugh, I got to take on another job." But ask them for their perspective on something, "Can I get your opinion on something? I just wanted to run something by you to make sure I don't have my blinders," we all have 15 minutes for that, don't we? That's actually mentorship. We just didn't give it that label. And once you start doing that, it really helps. And remember, you are not a mentor until the mentee calls you one. It's earned.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very interesting. And it also needs to be not just a one-way relationship, right?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Absolutely. It's definitely two ways. And actually, you can and should be helping your mentor out. And trust me, I don't care how junior you are, there is always something that you can offer the mentor. And you should be giving before you're ever taking, before you ever ask for their help. Always offer to help.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be an example? Because a lot of people may be saying, "Oh, what can I possibly offer?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I'm actually helping a Nobel Prize winner market his book. I'm never going to be a Nobel Prize winner, I'm not even a basic scientist. But here is somebody who is a Nobel Prize winner and he is a brilliant physician scientist, wrote a book, but doesn't know the first thing about marketing. I have a Master's Degree in Business, I know a thing or two about marketing, plus I have my own book, The Success Factor. So, I'm actually help helping him through that. So, here is somebody who's significantly junior, in this case me, helping somebody who's significantly senior to me. Now, the flip side of that, I was once at a conference and I was recruiting students for this program that I used to run.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I don't know if you've ever been recruiting at these conferences, you stand in your booth and you say the same thing over and over and over again, really hoping to sound excited at the 100th time that you've said it. All of a sudden, I see everybody staring at their phone. I realized as we walked into the conference center, there was a big board on easel with what I thought was a symbol of the pound symbol. It actually turned out to the a hashtag and a blue bird. And that's when I first found out about Twitter. And I called somebody, a former student of mine who's a generation and a half younger than me and I said, "Why is everyone staring at the phone? What is all this tweet, tweet, tweet they're talking about?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And that's when I realized that the conversations I was having one on one, I could have one with thousands of people. And they were much more chatty on that platform than they were with me because they might have been intimidated. That night, I went to my hotel room. 11:30 at night, I sat on the floor, opened my first Twitter account, didn't even have a picture, it was just an egg, but that's how I got introduced, how I got trained. It was actually somebody, a generation a half younger than me. So, you never know where this can come from.

Bobbi Rebell:
You never know where this can come from. One of the many things that you do, you have so many different things going on. I am so in awe of everything you do, but I really enjoy your Forbes column. And so, I did see you have a number of them on the topic of mentoring. But I did want to pull a few tips from one of them and encourage everyone to go right on your website, you can go to all of your Forbes articles and get the full thing. But let's do a few highlights there because you have some mentor-related tips of how to be a good mentor. And you've talked about staying engaged in person, virtual, and social. "Deadlines' not recommendations." I thought that-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... was interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah, that's a big one which I repeat quite often. And I'm really excited that we're talking about it because January's National Mentoring Month. So, this whole idea of deadlines are not recommendations, if someone tells you that something is due on January 10th, you don't submit it January 11th. Frankly, if you're submitting it January 10th, it's likely too late because the deadline is the drop dead date. So, you always want to submit it early because you know on that deadline date, the Internet's going to go down, the copier is jammed, there's always a problem. But there are always people who think that those deadlines are flexible. No, they're not. And they're not recommendations. They are firm, very firm. And you always want to, not just meet, meeting is average, you want to exceed. So, you want to submit it early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another tip from the article is, "Be honest." In the context of mentoring, what does that mean?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Don't promise that you can do something that you can't. Don't say that you know how to do something when you can't. Be transparent about what you can and cannot do. Be transparent about what you're hesitant to do, what you're afraid to do, what you're excited to do and why. And I think the more honest you are and more transparent you are, your mentor will be as well. And those are the best kind of relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to leave time to talk about your book. So, I'm going to just tell people to go look at your website, which is just your name. And we'll have links in the show notes, et cetera, to get more of your tips in your Forbes articles. But tell us more about The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
The Success Factor is years of research that I put into setting the most extreme high achievers of our generation, everyone from the former NASA Chief Astronaut Dr. Peggy Whitson, a lot of Nobel Prize winners, Dr. Mike Brown and Dr. Bob Lefkowitz, NBA stars, eight-time NBA champion Steve Kerr, NFL Hall of Famer Curtis Martin, Olympic champions like Scott Hamilton and the most decorated Winter Olympian, Apolo Anton Ohno.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Dr. Anthony Fauci, by the way, what was he like?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yes. He was great. They were all fantastic, very forthcoming. It was interesting I actually interviewed him before the pandemic. I said, "How do you pick which projects to work on?" Because he worked on HIV, Ebola, SARS, right? He said, "I pick something important, not just interesting. Because if it's important, it'll have an impact. And that's why I can't drop my pen at 5:00." And that explains why he's over 80 years old. He could have retired a long time ago, but he's clearly so passionate about what it is that he's doing. And that was the same thing with Dr. Fauci, that was the same thing with the astronauts, that was the same thing with the elite athletes. They have found what it is that they are so passionate about, that they love doing. They can't see themselves not doing it. They would do it for free if they didn't have bills to pay. Right?They loved it so much and that's why they work so hard at it.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And it's not just working the long hours, it's actually working smarter, which also includes rest time which is critical. So, those are the first two and Dr. Fauci was a perfect example of that as well. The third thing that they all had in common was a really strong foundation which they're constantly reinforcing, what they did early in their careers is what they did later in their careers. They don't say, "Oh, I won an NBA championship. I don't need to do lay ups anymore in my warmup." No. Ryan Millar, three-time Olympian, gold medal volleyball player, he told me that the most important thing in volleyball is not how high you can jump, it's ball control. And he told me at the Olympic village, they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do. And then, last but not least, doesn't matter that they have the Nobel, doesn't matter that they have all these fancy degrees, they are constantly learning, constantly trying to get new knowledge. While some of them, like you've heard the billionaires who read for three to eight hours a day, that works for them. But what made them billionaires is not that they read three to eight hours a day, it's that they were open to new knowledge. So, what are some of the other ways that you can get new knowledge? You could read articles, blogs, listen to podcasts such as this one, hopefully I'm sharing good stuff, YouTube, LinkedIn learning. I mean it's endless, the ways that you can learn new things.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is. And by the way, for our listeners, you read something like 70 to 100 books a year. You're reading three at once. So, I'm not going to challenge people to do that, but my challenge for myself is to just read more, maybe two a month. I read about one and a half a month, I would say. And I really enjoy my reading time and I enjoy more and more reading books not on screens. I know you are on every medium, so. But anyway, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people catch up with you and get all of your resources including The Success Factor?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Thank you so much. Yes. The Success Factor is available wherever you love to buy books. And if you want to know where you can find them, you could just go to my website, ruthgotian.com. And to find out where the books are, it's ruthgotian.com/book. And if you get the book by January 24th, you actually get a free bonus of all these different ways that you can approach strangers and start a conversation and not be awkward or weird about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, I need that right away. Okay. It's so hard. Oh, conversation starters. Oh my goodness. All right. Thank you so much.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much to think about. And I definitely want those conversation starter tips. I mean, it's always so awkward. I'm also thinking a lot about what she said on how we shouldn't only think about that person who's up on stage speaking when we attend some kind of conference, it's also the people in the room, even by the way, if that room is virtual. And also, the additional opportunities that this remote world has opened up for all of us to connect in new and sometimes more focused ways. I would love to hear what resonated with you guys. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and I would love to share more grownup resources with you. I'm putting them in my newsletter, which is free. You can sign up for it right on my website, bobbirebell.com, which is also where you get show notes and other resources. Big thanks to The Success Factor author Dr. Ruth Gotian for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Treat yourself to the best grownup advice from podcast favorite Farnoosh Torabi. The So Money host and CNET Editor-at-Large joins Bobbi with a preview of her Page a Day Calendar for the new year- including some surprising advice from GirlBoss Sophia Amoruso.

Money Tips

• Learn from your mistakes so you don’t repeat them

• Rethink retirement

• Envision your goals and be specific
  
  
  

---

Follow Farnoosh!

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/farnooshtorabi/

• Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/FarnooshTorabi

• Twitter - https://twitter.com/FARNOOSH

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/farnooshtorabi/

• YouTube -https://www.youtube.com/c/FarnooshTorabiTV

• Website -https://farnoosh.tv/

• Farnoosh’s Page A Day Calendar - So Money Page-A-Day Calendar 2022

  • Receive 20% off when you use the code “SOMONEY” at checkout to

  • If you would like to order in bulk, reach out to Farnoosh directly at Farnoosh@somoney.com for a deeper discount and to have her appear virtually for your event.

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is it's also really hard. I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup, either." And, new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code Holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And, thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And, you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. Hard to believe we are in countdown mode to the year 2022. I hope everyone had a good year this part year. Probably better than 2020, right? Anyway, I want everyone to be set up for success and just a really good year. And, what better way than getting advice for each and every day?

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I've been struggling with this past year has been all the damn screen time. I find myself just wanting to be away from all the glowing screens in my life. So, one thing I got recently was my friend Farnoosh Torabi's new page-a-day calendar. I have it right on my nightstand. It is paper, my friends. It is awesome. I do not have to charge it and it doesn't glow at night, it's just there. The added bonus for all of us is that I was able to get Farnoosh on the podcast, to give us all a proper sneak preview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for the few of you who do not know who Farnoosh Torabi is, in addition to putting together this lovely little calendar that I'm looking at as I record this, Farnoosh is a longtime financial journalist, content creator, bestselling author. She is also the host of the So Money Podcast, which is literally one of the most successful money podcasts ever, with more than 18 million downloads. She recently licensed the podcast to CNET, where she is now the editor at large. With that, let's get to this interview. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, welcome back to the podcast. You're a financial grownup.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Am I, Bobbi? Thank you. That means a lot, coming from you. That's official, I'm a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is official, in this year, two years I guess, we're losing count, where we're looking at screens so much. It can be so overwhelming. You are saving us all for the new year, because you have the ultimate product that we all need and that is a literal old school page-a-day calendar. It's called So Money: A year of managing your money, your life and your dreams. And, what I love most about this is that it is a physical product, which is something you haven't done before.

Farnoosh Torabi:
No. I've done books. I haven't done a book in forever. I have another one coming out in 2023. Yikes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But in the meantime, I've got a couple calendars that you can play with. I have this one for 2022, and then I have one for 2023. This is an opportunity to bring what has been a very virtual experience for people, the podcast and then following me on social, in the form of something really tangible. And, that they can gift.

Farnoosh Torabi:
For fans of the show, occasionally they'll write to me and they'll say, "Are you selling a t-shirt or a mug, or something with the words So Money on it? We want to show and express our fandom." I don't have anything in that world. So then, this is it. This calendar is special and it's one of those things where I find that we often need all the inspiration and reinforcement, and this is something that can sit on your desktop, wherever you work, which is probably home now. Or, you can take it with you, gift it. It's handy. And every day, a new piece of wisdom, often derived from the show and the wonderful guests that we've had, or a lot of them are just my own life philosophies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so we can't go through all 365 days, but I wanted to give some people the highlights of the highlights. So we're going to play, I don't know, we could call it Calendar Roulette, but it's not really that. We're just going to flip through and we're going to have Farnoosh randomly pick a page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, stop.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I just stopped, this is not going to be in order, obviously. June 29th, it's a Wednesday. By the way, this calendar will also let you know what day of the week it is, which I don't know, it's been pretty hard to-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it blends. It definitely blends sometimes, in this work-from-home life that we have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
A short while ago, I had on the founder of Girlboss, Sophia Amoruso, who has become a friend. It's just funny how the podcast ... Do you ever become friends with your guests?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
After they come on the show?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
It's not a friend that I ever thought I would have, but when she first came out with the book, which became a New York Times bestseller, I was in awe of her and I tried to get her on the show. She was way too busy for me. And then, I don't know, I just caught her at a good time, she came on the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But at this point, she had experienced a lot of public failure, where-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Isn't there a Netflix show? There was definitely some series about her life, which was awesome.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. It was Charlise Theron produced. Her story is phenomenal. I think she was a college dropout, she was dumpster diving for vintage clothing and all that. And, turned it into an eBay store and earned millions of dollars. And then, turned that into a clothing store called Nasty Gal, and then came up with this Girlboss movement.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Anyhow, Nasty Gal went bankrupt. This was after she was on the cover of Forbes, touted as one of the youngest potential multi-millionaires of our time, self made women. So we talked on the show a lot about that, the ups and the downs, and she was very candid.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So this date, Wednesday the 29th, the title of the wisdom is "Learn From Your Mistakes so That You Don't Repeat Them." It goes on to say that, "Sophia Amoruso is the poster child for a certain type of media backlash. When she started her first business, Nasty Gal, she was a darling of the financial press. Before long, she was routinely being called out for creating less-than-inclusive work environments."

Farnoosh Torabi:
This is true. She got a lot of heat, she almost got canceled.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, a lot of female founders do get.

Farnoosh Torabi:
They get a disproportionate amount of that, for sure.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"The criticism hurt," she told me on my show. "But it was fair," and she took a lot away from it. "It's an important opportunity for everyone to learn," she said, "when they get negative feedback. It doesn't always feel constructive, but there are ways to make it constructive for yourself."

Farnoosh Torabi:
And, there's a lot to say to that. I think for me, what she's really saying there, at least how it's hitting for me, is that in life, there are going to be challenges and you shouldn't be afraid of the feedback. Look, if we were afraid of feedback, would we be doing what we're doing?

Farnoosh Torabi:
It was hard at first, when I was first starting out working in financial news and giving opinions. And of course, with the internet, it's very easy to give feedback. I was getting a lot of nasty feedback, for things that were not even in my control. People didn't like the way I looked, or the way that I sounded, or the fact that they thought I was not qualified. And my boss told me, he said, "Listen, for every negative comment about you that you receive, there's 100 positive comments that weren't created, that weren't reported because people tend to be more negative than positive."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you have a bad experience at a restaurant, you're going to write that review on Yelp. Versus a great experience, you might not. You might tell a friend, but you're not going to publicly put it on Yelp.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Okay, let's do another one.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Okay. Wednesday, September 28th.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Rethink Retirement. The words we use matter."

Farnoosh Torabi:
In this tip I say, "Rather than saving for 'retirement,' which carries potentially negative connotations ... " And also, whose really retiring? Ron Lieber just wrote in the New York Times about the fact that we're all going to have to work longer, let's just face it. Face the music. Now's a good time to rethink your career, if you aren't happy.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So it says, "Rather than saving for retirement, which carries potentially negative connotations, consider saving for your freedom."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know, that's a little scary, too. But okay, go on.

Farnoosh Torabi:
The day in the future when I'll be able to actually call my own shots. This actually, I took this out of the page of NerdWallet's website. But this way, you're not putting away money for a hypothetical life stage you're not sure you'll ever reach. You're saving so that you have flexibility and security when you need it, and that's more enticing.

Farnoosh Torabi:
And if I hard more room, I would probably write that, as you're saving for retirement or whatever you want to call it, to really imagine yourself in that stage of your life. And, actually visualize yourself, what are you doing, what are you wearing, who are you with, where are you hanging out, what does your face look like. They have these studies now, Bobbi-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah, that app.

Farnoosh Torabi:
These simulations where they age you and then they did a test. People who saw their age progressed selves were more likely to save for retirement.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's do one more.

Farnoosh Torabi:
All right, one more. Why don't we do ... What's your birthday?

Bobbi Rebell:
January 3rd.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh!

Bobbi Rebell:
Coming up.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, that takes us right to almost the beginning. Oh, this is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Envision your goals and be specific. The more details an idea you have of what you want to accomplish this year, the better your chances of actually accomplishing it. Rather than aiming to save more, aim to save $5000 in a high yield savings account by year's end. This gives you a target that you can measure your progress against. And as I always say, goals carry price tags."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you want to make that sentence even longer and say, "I'm going to save $5000 in a high yield savings account for my daughter's whatever, college," or even something closer, like her tennis camp. Gosh, I'm not there yet. I don't know what tennis camp costs. But, her braces, let's be more practical.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Just the point is, back to that visualization tip, the more you can make real what it is that you're after, one, the more excited you can get. And, the more motivated and consistently you'll save because it's actually this thing, this tangible thing in front of you, as opposed to this abstract, saving just for saving. Decide your why, and then go and try to achieve the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, it has to be something that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited for the next year, with having this physical calendar on my desk. Because like I said, I'm so excited to have something that's not on a screen, and it can inspire me and give me different things to think about. Even if they're just reminders of things I know I should already be thinking about, reminders are really good and they push you to think about what's important to you. So thank you for this calendar. And by the way, it's super affordable, if you are looking for last minute gifts for the holidays.

Farnoosh Torabi:
We have a discount right now, going on. If you go to workman.com and you use the code So Money, you can get 20% off. And, I have a very special offer for anyone who wants to buy multiple copies. Let's say you want to buy 25 or more for your office friends, for your clients, for your extended family. If you want to do that, get in touch with me, I'll get you even a bigger discount. And, I'll show up virtually, for 15, 20 minutes and chat with your book club, your office mates. I've been doing this, so far. It's been fun to make face time with people. But, I'm offering this only until the end of the year, so you've got to get those purchases in and then we can schedule something in the new year.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, if you're interested in that bulk purchase and having me show up, and talk my mouth off in front of your group, it's farnoosh@somoneypodcast.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made some very big changes in your professional direction in the year 2021. Tell us your latest news and what you're up to for 2022. Oh my gosh, 2022.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So much has changed, I'm very excited. I've gone back to my roots of journalism and working in the media biz. And I've joined CNET as editor at large, and will be helping them launch and grow their money vertical. That means writing for them, doing a lot of media for them. We started a YouTube channel, so you go check out YouTube.com/CNETMoney. A newsletter, and the podcast, they're licensing the podcast which means they're helping me grow that, and we'll be integrating some more CNET content into the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, it's an opportunity for me to grow. I don't know about you, but the last 20 months, career wise, was a tremendous inflection point, for I think me and millions of Americans. I personally wanted to work with a team again and feel like I could make more of an impact. And of course, the show, as I mentioned at the top, I'm so blessed. The people just keep coming, it's millions of downloads. But, it's been a weird time and I feel like money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now, more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Farnoosh Torabi:
CNET's got an incredibly big, engaged audience so it was just a great partnership. And, they're giving me a lot of freedom to grow and try things, things that I would really do on my own. I tried to start a YouTube channel on my own in the pandemic, didn't work. Who knew you couldn't start a YouTube channel, on top of everything else? Raising your kids, teaching them school, going to work, in the same place, 24 hours a day.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm also writing a book, that has nothing and everything to do with money. But, it's really a memoir, big idea, memoir-ish kind of book. Which is a little different for me, because I'm very used to technical writing but it's really making me think and write creatively, about the fears that I grew up with. And, why I don't think that was always such a bad thing. I'm still a very frightened woman, who's very skeptical of a lot of things, but I get stuff done. And, I have to think that there's a connection there, that my fears have actually come out to work in my favor. But at the same time, I think there's also just panic and that's not what we want to have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So the book is really about how to be smart and emotionally intelligent about the fears that you experience, and recognizing what ones are worth paying attention to and what ones we need to kick to the curb. But, this idea that we need to ignore our fears or run away from our fears, I have a different philosophy. I feel like we should really embrace them in some ways, because I think it can help us to get closer to what we define as success and that's different for everybody.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, looking forward to finishing that. As you know, it's hellish when you're in the midst of ... I always like having written and I like going to book parties, but this process is like pulling teeth a little bit. But, it's good for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I can't wait to read it. You're such an inspiration. Thank you so much.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview as much as I did. Farnoosh really is the best. Such a generous, lovely person, I love having her on. We barely got into all of the incredible nuggets of wisdom in her calendar, but I am really into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, she is doing another one for 2023, so it's going to keep going on. The great thing is, like I said, paper, no screen. By the way, it's recycled paper so it is eco-friendly, all the good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do not forget to get that discount code that Farnoosh so generously gave us. It's So Money, when you order it on the Workman Publishing Page. You can also, by the way, get that info on my website, in the show notes. It's just my name, bobbirebell.com. Where like I said, you've got show notes, summarizing every episode. Also, full transcripts all there, just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, big almost end of year thank you to Ashley Wall, our producer who puts that together, all of the show notes, so well. She also puts the quote boards that we use on social media into the show notes, so you can see highlights of the interviews from all of our guests.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, if you're wondering what I'm talking about, I post them also, sometimes on Instagram, but pretty much always on Twitter. I'm going to do more Instagram in the new year, so follow me on Instagram. That is Bobbi Rebell and the number one. And also, on Twitter, that's just my name. It's easier, just Bobbi Rebell. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L. Even though I definitely get tired of the screen time, I am going to be on social media much more in the new year, with a lot of great stuff. DM me if you follow me on either platform, so that I know to follow you back and I know your part of our Grownup community.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, get yourself set up for the new year with the So Money page-a-day calendar. You're going to be really happy you did. It's just really calming and I feel like it's a nice thing to wake up to something inspirational in the morning. So big thanks to my friend, Farnoosh Torabi, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes, to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling unmotivated, indifferent and blah about your career (AKA how you make money)? With the great resignation we’re experiencing you are not alone. Unfollow Your Passion Author Terri Trespicio shares her tips on creating a life that matters to you AND  that can also pay your bills.

Money Tips

• Get a job, any job, that pays money.

• Commitments- this is where a lot of people get the wrong idea. 

• Avoid doing something just because other people say you should.

• Think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay.

• Jobs are not all of nothing.

• Don’t be judgy- especially for yourself.

• Explore your off label use.
  

---

Follow Terri!

• Instagram - @ttrespicio

• Facebook - @TerriTrespicio

• Twitter - @territ

• LinkedIn - @territrespicio

• Website - https://territrespicio.com

• Terri’s New Book - Unfollow Your Passion

• Terri’s Ted Talk - Stop Searching For Your Passion

• Terri’s Other Ted Talk - It’s About Time We Rethink Happily Ever After

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But, the truth is it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rather than think about the ideal job. I say, think about the life that you want, because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life, the kind of life you want, then you can do other things, you didn't sell out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. Did you always know what you wanted to do for a living? I kind of did. I wanted to be a journalist pretty early on. And while I have been able to do that, and you'll see why this is important, I have been able to get paid pretty well for it. This week's guest has me thinking, "It might have been okay or even pretty good to have tried out some other stuff first. But in my early twenties, I was in such a rush to follow my passion and turn it into a paying job. I mean, look, there was pressure from parents, from teachers, from friends that were doing this to just get started, to be the grownup right away, lock it in, define who you are. Now, again, to be clear, it's worked out pretty well. But looking back, I kind of wish I had known this week's guest back then and with the wisdom that she has now, since we are peers, but she wasn't so sure about what her passion was and that also worked out pretty well for her.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's going to be interesting for you to hear what she has to say. It's pretty epic stuff. Terri Trespicio gave a TED Talk a few years ago. It has racked up close to 8 million views. And by the time this goes out, it could be even more. It is amazing. It is about unfollowing your passion. And now she has a book by that same name, which follows up on that really landmark talk. I mean this talk, I can't even begin to tell you how much it mattered to so many people. So in my interview with Terri, we get into how her winding path to finding her passion actually led to this aha moment. That that is not what it's all about and most important, how we can all use Terri's experiences to take the pressure off, and find out what we actually want to do or confirm, it's okay. Confirm that we're doing what we want to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good too. But to be clear, sometimes it's okay to have a job that's for money to follow your passion. And so it's okay to just kind of work for the money. I mean, not to be so miserable, but you guys get the idea. Anyway, this interview is going to have you taking action and getting excited about your future. I promise you that. You got to hear it from Terri herself. I'm not as good at explaining this as Terri. So let's get to it. Here is Terri Trespicio.

Bobbi Rebell:
Terri Trespicio, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad that you are here. You are well known for your TED talk. Tell us a little bit about that, and then tell us about the book now following the TED Talk called Unfollow Your Passion.

Terri Trespicio:
The TED Talk I gave in 2015, it's called Stop Searching For Your Passion. I gave it and I thought, great. Whoever was there in the audience saw it. And that's probably the last time anyone will. And I was wrong about that. It took off. The thesis is that the question we ask each other and ourselves, whether we should or have found the one thing we should be doing, is not a helpful question. It is incredibly limiting, and it presumes that we're supposed to know what we're doing, and I'm not convinced that any of us does. And so [crosstalk 00:05:05]-

Bobbi Rebell:
I took issue with it-

Terri Trespicio:
... the world changes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... and that's an important point that you bring up in this book that I'm so happy we finally finally have. Okay. So taking that, the book really expands on the idea of the TED Talk about how we balance this whole notion of passion with look, we do need the practical reality that we have to earn money. And we also want to be happy because we spend a lot of time doing the things that earn us money very often. Not always, some of us are fortunate. We don't have to spend a lot of time, but most of us spend a good deal of time at what we like to refer to as work, or things that bring in money.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes, both those things. And the book picks up where the TED Talk leaves off and goes deeper to question all of the ways in which we have assessed career and meaning, and value, and time, especially now, and people are going, "What am I spending my time on? And is it worth it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved the book, and I pulled some of my favorite grownup tips from it to share. So the first one, which goes to what you were just saying, and you were sort of... It's well, the tip is that you should get a job, any job that pays money when you're sort of lost. And this relates back to you soon after you graduated college, going back to what you just said about all this pressure on finding the one thing. You were sort of stuck because you were doing nothing because it wasn't the one thing.

Terri Trespicio:
I would get offers for jobs, and I would turn them down. Low-paying entry-level jobs. And I said, "I can't do that one. I can't do that one." My mom said, "Why, why?" I said, "Because I don't want to do that for my life." And she said, "But you," I said, "But I'll be trapped. If I take it, I'll be stuck there for life." And I don't know, I don't know. I was really in a bad place. She was like, "Listen to me, you have to take a job, any job, and you will figure it out, but you've got to start." And so finally, when I finally said, "Okay, fine." It wasn't a dream job.

Terri Trespicio:
It wasn't meant to be a dream job. It was an executive assistant job at a management consulting company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I knew nothing of what they talked about. I didn't understand it. They were super brilliant people, went to MIT, I was charged with, "Sit there and answer the phone, and make travel arrangements," and do things I didn't know how to do. You'd say, "Well, why would that be some kind of breakthrough job?" Because I had a place to go, and I had a job, salary, benefits, people who waited for me in the morning and called me by name during the day. And I felt like I had a purpose there, which I did until I left. But If you don't let yourself do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, and it was a grown up job. And that's actually the second point, the second tip that I wanted to talk to you about was just that, commitments. People overthink this idea of commitments that they have to commit to that job forever when that's far from the truth. And by the way, the job is not committing to you, you point out too.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh, definitely not. Commitment does not have to be lifelong. Commitment means you're in it right at that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're very candid in the book. For example, you talk about being laid off, and how it just sort of at the moment was so devastating because you felt committed, and it was apparently a one-sided commitment at that moment.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, let's be real. By the time I got laid off from Martha Stewart, in my mind the writing was on a wall a little bit, because my boss had left. And they brought in a new editor-in-chief of that magazine. And that editor-in-chief didn't know me at all. And I thought, "There goes my connection." It just, I had a feeling, but I was also afraid to leave the full-time job. Well, you can't leave a full-time job when you don't have any something else. But by the time it happened, I remember the day before I got laid off, I said, " You know what's funny. I would imagine there might be a chance I could get laid off."

Terri Trespicio:
And it happened the next day, because they were cutting, cutting, cutting. It just, magazines weren't making Martha all the money. And ultimately the magazine work foreclosed a few months later, so that's it. But I didn't feel betrayed, actually. I said, "I need to leave," but it was almost like, "You're going to have to break up with me because I don't know if I'm going to leave." And then they did. And when I knew that commitment ended, I was a little bit fearful, but I knew then that I had to do something. Again, that prompted me to dig in.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third tip that I want to discuss is that you talk about avoiding doing something just because other people say you should. And you give the example of Michelangelo, which I thought was so genius.

Terri Trespicio:
It came out of the work of fiction about his life by Irving Stone, The Agony and the Ecstasy. And there's a moment when Michelangelo just wants to sculpt. He endures drawing or painting. He doesn't love it. He wants to be a sculptor. And he gets an opportunity [crosstalk 00:09:14] in Lorenzo's sculpture-

Bobbi Rebell:
A paid opportunity.

Terri Trespicio:
... Got paid. [crosstalk 00:09:17] paid for being in the sculpture garden. He was very excited about it. And he's like, "This is so great." It was like the equivalent of being a writer at SNL, except you're doing sculpture from marble. And one of his friends says, "Let's get out of here. What if this garden goes down? What if we don't... No one cares about this. Why are we doing this? It's not at the top of my list." And Michelangelo said, "There is no list. This is all I want to do."

Terri Trespicio:
Now that doesn't mean Michelangelo is right, and his friend would've been the next genius sculptor. It wasn't right for that kid. And I believe they were kids at the time. That kid wanted something steady. He said, "Let's get into something that makes some money, like pork. Maybe he went on to be a pork salesman who knows? But Michelangelo said, "No, this is what I'm doing right now." And he didn't say someday, I'm going to be to... Yeah, he was just like, this is all it. This is it. Now he knew, but there's a proof of my point though, Bobbi, because we don't all grow up craving marble. I didn't, I wasn't like I'm going to do this. That's the rare. Most of us are afraid and wanting to do something that makes money. But the idea that you have to make both the answer, that you have to do what you love and make a fortune doing it, is a lot of pressure.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot of things that focus on being in the right mindset, in your book. So the fourth grownup tip is, think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay, how does being paid make you feel? And I mean, for me, I had a tangent conversation with a friend of mine who had a very high paying job that she didn't love, but she loved the money and she didn't hate the job, but she really liked being paid so much money because it opened up opportunities and she's like, "Yeah, I took the job for the money. And somehow people have trouble with that. But I really liked being paid a high salary."

Terri Trespicio:
But that's the life. Rather than think about the ideal job, I say think about the life that you want. Because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life the kind of life you want, then you can do other things. You didn't sell out. I really hate this idea that you don't have to turn everything you love into a business. First of all, not everyone has to be an entrepreneur, and there's nothing wrong with taking something. You don't win points for being a starving artist. I'm sorry. You just don't. Unless you don't mind someone finding yourself 20 years from now and maybe caring about it, I'd rather enjoy the stuff I'm doing now.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, all right, number five. Jobs are not all or nothing. There's a lot of nuance. We tend to be very literal with jobs.

Terri Trespicio:
This is my problem with the linear thinking around jobs. That were only this job or we're defined by this job. Anyone you can think of who has a job, that that's what they do. I guarantee you, they have lots of other things they love to do too. On one hand, we want the work to inspire us, and we want to be known for doing something wonderful. But who said that the thing you create that's amazing has to be the thing you're getting paid for. I think we don't open up the bandwidth enough to see all of the potential from all the things we can do. This is what I usually say. Bobbi is like, "The world does not owe you a job that suits your dreams and passion." The world does not owe you that it's on you to figure out a way to do something you love that matters to someone else. No one just pays you more because you like it. That is not how it works. It's not how the economy works.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the stories you share in the book that I love is about your sister, who is a very talented singer, but that is not the job for pay that she wanted.

Terri Trespicio:
Right. My sister is an amazing singer. She could have had a chance of making a living as a singer. I don't know that she would've been like Jlo, I just know that she could have made a living singing, and she knew that from an earlier age. And she fought it and said, "No way, no way, no how." And no one understood it. And they still don't. If they hear her sing when she does do for fun. "You're so good. You could have been famous. Why don't you that?"

Terri Trespicio:
And she's like, "Do you understand that if I could have been the most successful you could be as a singer, my life would be singing every day or traveling all the time." She said, "My big goal is to have my own house, to have a couch, to sit on it every night, to watch TV, and have kids and a dog. That is the life I want. You don't get to make a living as a huge recording artist and then never go out and tour or perform." She said, I want to do it when I do it. And if I made singing my life, I would've come to resent it."

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the other themes that you talk about that I really picked up on is don't be judgey, especially of yourself. And I'm referring to, for example, the idea that you were selling jewelry in the suburbs on this MLM, you embraced it, you were good at it. You learned a lot from it. You formed relationships from it. It worked for you at that time.

Terri Trespicio:
I was bad at it at first. And I was like, "Really? I feel weird selling." I was a copywriter. This was not my jam, but I quite frankly needed to earn the money. And I really liked the jewelry. And so I realized liking jewelry, and having a passion for accessorizing does not directly link to a skill in sales. That I had to learn. It was tough, but I was incentivized to learn it. And when I figured out how to make it work for me, it was something I did well at. I didn't do it very long. I think I did this organization for maybe two years, if that, and then I kept those skills in my back pocket. And then when I got laid off and had to work for myself, guess what I pulled out? My skills that I had learned on how to sell. And now I had to sell myself. So nothing is wasted, no job, no opportunity is wasted if you know to take those skills and use them somewhere else to benefit you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right? Because what we're hearing is whether it's the executive assistant job or the job selling jewelry at these parties, these were all things that built up who you are and the skillset that you had. And had you been judgey about them and looked down on them, and not realize the opportunity in them, you would not be where you are today.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh I used to make a joke about earning an MFA in poetry. First of all, it was not a joke. It was a very expensive investment that my family was able to and willing to make for me. So there is a level of privilege right there. You don't need to go get an MFA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you make an argument there of how it would lead to income someday when you were asking them to pay for it?

Terri Trespicio:
I said, "This is what I want to do. I want to be in this program and learn it, and to become better at it. I don't know how it'll directly relate, but it is a Master's degree, and it could really be helpful, and I don't know how. My family is willing to back me on that. Plenty of people wouldn't. And you don't need an MFA to be a writer. However, I used to joke about it later. "Oh, I had an MFA poetry." I was real practical. Well, in fact, today I make my living, a lot of it from writing.

Terri Trespicio:
And what did I do? I apprenticed to study the words, the beats, the lines. I basically consider myself today a corporate poet. I use the skills I studied to create poetry for companies, to make it sing on the page. And that comes from years of study of line beats and forms, and all of that stuff. So I had the weird life that just is uniquely mine, but so did everyone else's. But I hear people dismissing, "Oh, I did that for a while. That was stupid. Oh, I did that. That was dumb." What did you... You learned something. Why would you let it go to waste? There isn't a thing I did that I don't use.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have to look and see if the URL, the corporate poet, is available for you. I feel like that's a good brand for you.

Terri Trespicio:
I don't know if a company wants to invest in a bard.

Bobbi Rebell:
But no, but you call it the corporate poet, which is really what it is. I think that's a very catchy brand-

Terri Trespicio:
You Think?

Bobbi Rebell:
... for someone that does something less. Yes-

Terri Trespicio:
Maybe I'll do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
... I do. The corporate poet. Do it before this airs. All right, the last one. This is my favorite one, because it's just so you. Explore your off label use.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes. This is again taking stock. And I walk people through that in the book. Of all the skills you've learned, no matter if it was paid or unpaid, whether it was what you learned from babysitting or raising your own kids, or running this nonprofit, you don't look at it just by, well, how much did I get paid there? What are the skills that you know? And how can you use them. Off label meaning, yeah, I trained as a poet. So now I know language really well. I also work as a brand advisor, so I know that, but the brand advising work, I can do that for anyone and anything.

Terri Trespicio:
Stop looking at our skills, stop looking at your own skills as tunnel vision, like they only work here. Your whole batch of skills is like a bag of tricks, and you can take it from landscape to landscape. From one group to another. The creativity, everyone's always saying they want to have a creative career, the creativity in a career does not come, whether it's labeled creative. It's how are you using all these different skills to light up different areas of your work and different people? How do you all your different skills help people in ways you might not have thought about? That's the magic. That really, really is.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, and so much great stuff in your book, Unfollow Your Passion, How to Create a Life that Matters to you. And I love on the cover that "to you" is in script and underlined, because that's really the big thing I think that stands out. That it's unique to you and everyone needs to take what matters to them from this book. And there's a lot to take there. Tell us more about the book, what you have planned. I know you're doing a lot of promotion for it. And then how people can get in touch with you and follow you and all the good things.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, the to you, by the way, imagine if it didn't have to you at the bottom, it would just say how to create a life that matters. Who says what matters? That's the key. It doesn't have to matter to anyone else, but you. But people I'll say, more women than men, are concerned that their life isn't serving enough people in enough ways. And as they say, "If you live out what everyone else wants, what are you left with? So my hope for the book is yeah, of course. Yeah. I hope people read it and use it. The thing that I most hope that it will do for people.

Terri Trespicio:
It's not going to tell you what you should pursue in your career. That it's too linear. That's not my job. I would be very arrogant to think I could tell you that, but I would hope that it will open up your thinking and unlock something so that you don't feel chained to one way, one role, one path for being in the world. That is a kind of self-imposed prison. And the sooner we can free ourselves of that and see that we really do get to make things up as we go and our lives can be what we want. The sooner we do that, the freer and the more self-possessed we will be. And isn't that the goal, the goal isn't just happy. The goal is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, where could people be in touch with you?

Terri Trespicio:
Well, they can find me, I'm on all the things. And I'm the only one with my name. So if you look up me up, you will find me, but if you want to learn more about the book it's at unfollowyourpassion.com, because that's easier to remember than my name, but of course you can find me @territrespicio on Instagram, Terri Trespicio, if you Google it, the Google knows how to correct the spelling, no matter how you do it. And I would love to hear from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that part about being a corporate poet. She really is. And that story about her sister's incredible singing talent really hits home. It makes so much sense just because you have a talent that others will pay you for. Doesn't mean you have to go sell that talent for a living, If it's not going to give you the life you want. You want to do something that will give you the life that you want. It's also okay to take a job that you don't love. But of course, obviously you don't want to take a job that you hate, but you love the fact that it pays super well and gives you something that you're really into. It gives you the ability to do things that you can afford to do. Jobs don't have to be for fun. They really can be for the money, after all, companies are paying you to do what they need to get done.

Bobbi Rebell:
They are not paying you to fulfill your dreams. If they work together. Great. But if not, well, seriously you are in the majority. Don't sweat it. Enjoy the regular paycheck and health insurance, and so on. I highly encourage everyone to not just check out Terri's book, Unfollow Your Passion, but also to check out some of her other content, she creates so much great stuff and has all of these workshops and other resources, including, but not limited to by the way, her TED Talk. Invest your time in her teachings. All to be found at unfollowyourpassion.com. And big thanks to the wonderful Terri Trespicio for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grown up. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how can do that first connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our Merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The holiday season can be a great opportunity to teach young children money lessons including needs vs wants, the importance of saving and investing, and the power of giving. Bobbi talks with The Wisest Investment author Robin Taub, about the best ways to have those talks, and make an impact on your kids. 

Money Tips

• Talk about needs vs wants

• Find Opportunities where children can learn how to be generous

• Learn how to have a conversation about money with kids of any age

• The important lesson that children can learn by walking away empty handed

• Have children use their own money when purchasing things they want
  

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Follow Robin!

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• Robin’s Book - The Wisest Investment

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile. So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the Wednesdays with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top selling generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Robin Taub:
It's really hard as parents not to rescue your kids and you say you've done it, I know I've done it, and you're standing there and they're so disappointed, but it is a really important lesson that they have to understand that money's a finite resource and you have to do some planning and you have to do some research and know what things cost and whether you have enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grown friends and happy holidays, whatever holidays you are celebrating. It is the season for so many good things, but we also want to make sure that we keep our kids from developing bad money habits, because that can happen with all the giving that goes on. Giving and getting presidents is good, don't get me wrong, but we just want to make sure that the young people in our lives don't get a sense of entitlement. Not just because we'll have to live with it, ugh, but also because it's just not going to serve them well as they grow into being grownups. Robin Taub is the author of The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life. While she's based in Canada, her lessons are really universal. In my interview with Robin, we talk about using the holidays as an opportunity to teach kids, well, to be their best selves, maximize the fun and giving spirit of the holidays and not get caught up in all the bad stuff. All the me, me, me, get me, get me, buy me, buy me. Right? We've all heard that. Robin is so warm. You can tell she has a great heart and really cares about teaching young people. I think that's why we bonded so much. You're going to love this interview. Here is Robin Taub.

Bobbi Rebell:
Robin Taub, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Robin Taub:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are of like minds across international borders. You are Canadian, I am obviously a US citizen, but we are like mines because we both are very interested in teaching children about money. I heard about your book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life and I had to have you on the podcast, so welcome.

Robin Taub:
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, so this book, full disclosure, it is a book that is has Canadian references, but I think there's a lot of lessons that are universal and cross the international border between the US and Canada so I think that we're going to have a lot to discuss.

Robin Taub:
Good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Starting with the fact that you specialize in teaching parents how to teach their kids about money and in the book you go through different ages. You really start at the very youngest ages. It is the holiday season. It's a time when little kids may be asking for more and more and more, and this may be a time when things slow down a little bit with the older kids, the kids in elementary, middle school, maybe even high school, they may have more time to be around you. What kind of opening does this create for parents to have those discussions about money and money lessons with their children?

Robin Taub:
I think with holidays and gifts, you can have a talk about needs versus wants because I think this is the time of year where everyone wants the fun things, the things that are not must haves for survival, but the nice to haves. So having a conversation with your kids about what things cost and if they're working, how many hours it would take to work, they would have to work to earn something like the equivalent of what they want. Just talking about things like even buyer's remorse and thinking before you buy something, being more mindful about your spending.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that parents want to teach their children about obviously is being generous and giving. What kind of opportunities are presented around that during the holiday season?

Robin Taub:
I think you could be going with your kids to a place where they're giving out hot meals to people that are homeless or having trouble this time of year. It could be donating dry goods or new toys to an organization that's collecting for families that are in need this year. I feel like doing a project like that as a family really does help put things into perspective if your kids are developing a sense of entitlement and it just opens their eyes up to the fact that not everyone lives the way that they do. It teaches them to be grateful for what they have, which I think is a really important message all year round but especially around the holidays when they can be a little bit demanding of all the things on their list.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are some good ways to even open the conversation about money with kids, especially at the younger ages, if they don't show an interest in it and they don't really ask you? How do you even bring it up?

Robin Taub:
Yeah. As you mentioned, my book does start at the younger end around five, and I say that it usually does start when they go to school like preschool and they can see what other kids have and do and they might start expressing a curiosity around money. If they haven't initiated it and you think that they already based on their maturity, you can start with cash and you can start by showing them bills and coins and how you use those to pay for things, assuming you still do here and there. You would play county games with money. Canadian money's actually a lot more colorful and interesting than American money. That's something that I did when my kids were little, but it's always about sharing age appropriate information. You're going to interest a five year old in things that are outside of their little world. What does an ice cream cost and what does an apple cost? What about this toy that they want? How much does that cost, and showing them how you would actually add that up with cash and pay for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that is interesting is in the book you talk about if a little boy, I forget if it was a little boy or a little girl, whatever, if a child wants something and they're short, like they have a certain amount of money at the store and they come up short, many parents, and I myself have been guilty of this, pony up the last dime or whatever it is, you say not to do that.

Robin Taub:
Yeah, there is a story in the book about letting your child walk away empty-handed because they didn't have enough, they hadn't saved enough, or maybe it was a simple question if they didn't have enough for the tax, the sales tax. Again, that's another really good teachable moment because it's not just the sticker price, it's all these additional taxes. Yeah, it's really hard as parents not to rescue your kids and you say you've done it, I know I've done it, and you're standing there and they're so disappointed, but it is a really important lesson that they have to understand that money's a finite resource and you have to do some planning and you have to do some research and know what things cost and whether you have enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because that's sort of an evergreen lesson and many of the books lessons are evergreen, but the book is actually 10 years old and you've updated it. Tell me about what changed over the last decade when you went back and looked at it, how has the world changed and therefore, the way that we teach our children about money has changed?

Robin Taub:
Quite a bit, it's changed quite a bit, and in two major ways, I would say. The first is that we live in an increasingly cashless and digital society. With young kids you still want to teach them with cash because it's tangible and concrete and it's not as conceptual but older kids are ready to learn about digital money, but that has been a huge change. We are rarely using cash anymore. We are tapping, we are using our phones, everything's being done from our phone or computer. A lot of people were taught about money using jars and using cash and sort of when you run out, then you know you can't spend anymore. Well, that doesn't really happen anymore. We also don't feel that same pain of loss that you feel when you hand money over to somebody, when you just tap. It just doesn't feel that same visceral feeling.

Robin Taub:
You have to build some of that friction back into the system. As much as technology has made spending so much easier, and it's really changed the game on how we manage money, you can also use it to help you. I think that this move to digital has been huge in how we teach our kids and some of the challenges.

Robin Taub:
The other thing was COVID, was the pandemic. It just felt like it was a wake up call for parents. Well, for everyone really, about being prepared financially and about the importance of making sure the next generation is prepared, whether it's something crazy like a pandemic where things were shut down for a while and some people weren't able to work or be prepared for something good like some kind of a financial windfall. On the downside, a lot of people didn't have emergency money and they were really scrambling until the government stepped in with assistance. Just how important it is to have that safety net built.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that the pandemic made or created a situation where parents were more candid with their children about money?

Robin Taub:
I think that especially teenagers and older kids, they are aware of what's going on in the house and I think it is catalyst for some difficult conversations. You want your child to have some context as to what's happening in the household, if you have to say, no, maybe this year celebrations are not going to be what they have been in the past for that reason, but you all also have to take on the responsibility of managing the household. You don't want to overburden your child with too much information or worry them, even teachable moments like taking your kid grocery shopping, that was such a go-to example, and all of a sudden no one was going to grocery stores, everyone was shopping online so just how do you then use those as opportunities to teach your kids?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you can also sit at the computer with your kid and go shopping online with your kids all the same.

Robin Taub:
Yeah, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other interesting thing is that you talk about digital tools. We can also see when I ... I no longer give my child actual cash. He has a debit card that actually works through digital, is through his phone on Apple Pay and so I can see everything he buys. How would you recommend, sometimes I don't like what he buys. How would you handle this with a child? How do you discuss what they're buying when they don't necessarily fully understand that you see everything?

Robin Taub:
Yeah. Well, is your child a teenager?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, this one is. He's 14, yes. But any kid that has a debit card, I think it's a great tool because you used to, you'd give them money and you kind of don't know exactly but here you can see. They were at Dunkin' Donuts at 3:30 PM with their friends after school.

Robin Taub:
Yeah. That's a good example. You're right. With cash it's not traceable, so he might have been doing that. You just didn't know about it. With teenagers, the allowance that you're giving them, assuming you're having a conversation or I recommend parents do have a conversation about it, what are the expectations? Is it just for their wants? Is it for just going to Dunkin Donuts after school? Or is it supposed to cover some other things, maybe cell phone or ... Have that conversation about who's paying for, what are they working? Are they contributing also? Are you just paying for everything in the household? Most parents aren't charging teenage kids living at home rent or anything like that. But just going over what their daily spending or their weekly spending looks like.

Robin Taub:
Then I would sort of try and step back because you don't want to fight every little battle, as you know as a parent. You don't want to be arguing over every wasteful coffee or drink or fast food meal that they buy. If you've kind of got the big picture category sorted out, you're giving them some money for entertainment and some money for transportation and clothes, and I think within that, you want to let them do what they want because they are going to make mistakes and waste money and you kind of want them to, because that's how you learn.

Robin Taub:
Speaking of coffee, my daughter went through a phase in high school where she was going to Starbucks all the time after school. I know when I would take my kids to Starbucks, I wouldn't get anything because it was expensive when for two or three people. When she was going every day herself, she was spending 5, $6 at a pop, so that could be $30 a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever talk to your daughter when you were going to Starbucks with all of them and buying them treats and not-

Robin Taub:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not buying yourself. Would you say to them, "I'm buying you, but I'm not buying myself because it's too expensive?"

Robin Taub:
Yes, I would.

Bobbi Rebell:
It didn't work, Robin, they didn't-

Robin Taub:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:13:36]

Robin Taub:
It might make me look cheap, but I didn't really care because I was like, "I don't really need this or want this that badly," and it was more like an outing so it was like, "Happy to buy it for you guys, but I don't need this so I'm not going to spend the money on myself." But I think it became for her the social thing. It was like they went en masse after school as a group and you don't want to be the odd kid out and whatever, but it can really add up. My son was the same, but for him it was cans of pop at a convenience store across the street. If you bring up from home, it's way cheaper.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you handle that peer pressure to spend money with kids? Because that's what you're talking about.

Robin Taub:
It is and it's so hard now because it's in person and it's online with social media and social commerce and stuff. Yeah. It's a really hard thing. Again, I think it goes back to needs versus wants. Just emphasizing that with your kids, first we have to take care of the must-haves for survival and then if there's money left over for the nice haves, okay. When they start working, even as teenagers and they have to earn some of their own money to pay for some of the things that they have FOMO over or peer pressure over and they know that they have to work a certain number of hours to be able to afford that thing, it makes it a lot more real for them. When they're spending their own money compared to when they're spending yours, it just hurts more.

Robin Taub:
Even if you've given them that money as an allowance, as you were saying, it's still their money and they have ownership over it and they know if they spend it on this, they won't have it left over for that. It forces them to make these choices. I think that's another way. Doing those family philanthropy projects that we talked about maybe around the holidays, but all times of year schools are always doing fundraisers, just also reinforces the fact that life is not just about consuming and having the latest this and the greatest that, and just having some kind of a gratitude practice, even informally at home like going around the dinner table and everyone sharing one thing that happened that week that they're grateful for, it just changes the context from this whole got to have it, got to have it now, I deserve it to life's about a lot more than just stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your number one money tip for parents?

Robin Taub:
I think for parents it's to try to get their own financial house in orders so that they can be good financial role models and lead by example. Kids are watching and listening and learning and they are aware of both the good and the bad money habits in the home. They're modeling us, we are their role models for so many areas, including with money. I think that's an easy way, in some ways it's hard if you haven't done that, if you're not financially on top of things, but if you are then just by doing what you do normally you're teaching your kids. They have a good example to follow.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Where can people follow up with you and be in touch?

Robin Taub:
I have this book that has now been updated called The Wisest Investment and that is the name of the website where you can find it and links to it as well as some free resources. I actually have an exercise from the book that will help parents figure out if they're a good financial role model and how they could become one. That's all on thewisestinvestment.com and then on social media, I'm Robin Taub which is T-A-U-B.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Robin Taub:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff in that interview, especially that last part about the fact that whether we are aware of it or not, the kids are watching how we talk about money and they are probably a lot more aware of what is going on with us financially than we realize, especially to so many of us were home so much more with those kids around in the last year and a half. I love this topic and I am so excited to start sharing more about my next book, Launching Financial Grownups with all of you soon. To learn more about it, please go to my website, bobbirebelle.com, you can learn more just in the dropdown menu, click on books, but also sign up for my newsletter. There's an invitation right there waiting for you when you go to the website and I will keep you posted.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, I would love to hear your tips on this topic or if you have any more questions or topic suggestions that you want to hear more about on the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell, and big thanks to The Wisest Investment author, Robin Taub, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find in the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebelle.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at Bobby rebel, one on Instagram @bobbierebell1 and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share the is podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your Grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Want to have more money AND a better planet? Learn what we can control that really matters- and what we are over stressing about when it comes to climate change, waste, carbon offsets, plastic straws and all those questions about which milk to order from Wallet Activist author Tanja Hester. 

Money Tips

• Why you might want to consider joining the sharing economy

• Donating isn’t always a good thing.

• Learn what some alternatives are.

• Beware the DIY trap

• What it means to factor in your own financial well being and how to do that
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear, with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity Line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday. Holiday. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself face up to your food waste, like put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family, or you, create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. Then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eye-opening and that can be really motivating.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. That opening clip, from Tanja Hester, it's a bit much, while it would certainly be very impactful for my family, if we all put our wasted food in a bucket, in our refrigerator for a week, to see just how bad we are with wasting food. We already know that. Let's just be honest. We know we're terrible at it. So, that's part of why I wanted to talk to Tanja. And if her name by the way, sounds familiar, that's because she's been here before talking about her first book, Work Optional. Even though she is technically retired, that's the title of her book, Tanja is so passionate out the topic for her new book, Wallet Activism, that she couldn't help but write at least one more book. Tanja is also a familiar name to many of you because of her successful blog, Our Next Life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now in our interview, Tanja and I talk about everything from the sharing economy on a practical basis, because we say that a lot, but I don't know if we really do it in real life. Also, her unique take on Marie Kondo, when it matters to buy organic or even grass-fed, and also why I'm being ripped off when I get oat milk in my coffee and they charge me more. Apparently, it doesn't really cost more. We're going to learn a lot more from Tanja about kind of how everything fits into the ecosystem. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Wallet Activism, author Tanja Hester.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much for having me back.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you back to talk about your latest project. It's a book and it's a podcast called Wallet Activism: How To Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn And Save, As A Force For Change. This is a follow-up book, well really a separate book, but your second book, to Work Optional, which I really enjoyed and was a huge bestseller. So congratulations and welcome back.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about the money tips that you share in Wallet Activists. The first one has to do with the sharing economy and kind of taking it to a next level. This is not just about sharing an Uber ride and that kind of thing. This is about just don't buy stuff.

Tanja Hester:
Share it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have various specific ways this can actually happen because some people, myself included as I started to read this part of the book, are doing some eye rolls right now.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, you know, I think that the way that our economy and society have gone, they've worked to make everything cheaper, so that we've been trained out of thinking of different ways of acquiring something.

Tanja Hester:
So let's say you're doing a home improvement project and you think, "Oh, I'm going to need a saw for this." You look at Home Depot, it's only $60 to buy a saw and you think, "Oh, that's not bad. I'll just buy it." But then suddenly we've got a situation where we all have a ton of stuff sitting around that's really resource intensive to produce, impossible to recycle, that'll be obsolete after however many years, or it'll just sit in your garage or closet and rust and not be usable after a long time.

Tanja Hester:
But instead, we could all go back to how folks used to think about these things. I'm not saying this to like, oh, the good old days were the best or anything like that. But in this particular area, the idea of borrowing things or why does everyone on a block need own their own lawnmower? Why couldn't you share with different neighbors? Why couldn't you rent a saw or a drill for the project and then give it back and someone else can use it.

Tanja Hester:
A lot of the tips that I offer, I think this is a good example, are both good for the planet and other people, so we're not contributing a whole bunch of demand for stuff that's ultimately just going through our resources, resulting in a lot of carbon emissions, resulting in exploitation of workers, but it's also saving you money. You know, renting a power tool is a lot cheaper than buying it. The same is true if you share something across multiple neighbors, or friends, or whatever makes sense in your situation. Obviously not everybody has a house and a yard, but fill in the blanks with your stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk throughout the book, by the way, about factoring in your own financial wellbeing and it's important to look out for yourself and don't always be... The dominant thing doesn't have to always be giving, giving, giving. Part of giving is creating your own financial foundation and maintaining it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say some things that make sense, but only after you explain it, because they're a little bit counterintuitive. For example, Marie Kondo, cleaning out. Minimalism has been a big trend, but it's not really that simple. You have some interesting thoughts about donations and what we do with our stuff because we all have so much stuff. We think we're doing good when we donate it and we certainly have good intentions, but explain. It's not so simple, right?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, the most important part to me of Marie's message is actually take good care of the things that you own and help them last longer. I think that part's been totally lost in favor of, trash anything that doesn't spark joy. The problem is that we have such a huge flow of things going to donation centers. You know, everybody loves to take their garbage bags full of stuff to Goodwill, that most of what Goodwill does is actually not sell our discards. It's actually throw them away and they pay a huge amount of money every month, as do other charitable organizations that take donations in physical form, just to send stuff to the landfill.

Tanja Hester:
I think if we all knew that what we were donating was most likely either going to the landfill or worse, getting loaded on a ship and sent to Africa, where it was decimating local textile industries, I think we would be a lot more thoughtful about it, but we feel like we're sending stuff out and it's doing good rather than we're sending stuff to the trash, I think we would approach things differently.

Tanja Hester:
So, I propose a different standard rather than sparking joy or using it, and thinking instead about, could I get more useful life out of this and maybe it's repurposing it in some way. It doesn't have to be wearing a dress that you hate forever, or a dress that doesn't fit. You know, it's thinking, could I use the fabric and make something else with it or whatever it might be. If you can't that, then working a little bit harder to put those items, you're discarding into the hands of someone who will actually use them, rather than just sort of blindly sending them off to the donation center.

Tanja Hester:
So rather whether it's trading with friends, or listing things online, or on a buy nothing group, there's so many different options now for discarding things a bit more thoughtfully, that will make sure we're not just sending huge amounts of stuff to the landfill and even worse than filling that empty space with new stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said. And you have a lot of specific resources in the book and through your website, et cetera, that we can refer people to, to get more details on how to actually do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another interesting thing, we're talking about activism, but also money tips, is to be aware of the DIY trap. People think if they do it themselves, they're going to save money and it's all good and it's great, but there's a lot to be wary about there.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, I think if folks have hobbies that are doing things yourself, making kombucha, for example, that can actually be a great way to save resources because you don't need special gear to make kombucha versus buying a steady stream of bottles from the store. If you like to drink it often, you can reuse the same bottles over and over and over, if you make it yourself.

Tanja Hester:
But there are other things that are DIY where you sort of say, "Well, you know, if everyone just did this ourselves, we'd actually save resources." And that's in fact not true. If we all tried to grow all our own food, think about how much more equipment we'd all need. We'd all need hoses and tools and all the things you need to garden. I garden myself. It's my favorite hobby, but I do it because I love it, not because I'm under any illusions about it being some better way, where we'd also have to all spread out across the land when we should be leaving more of that land alone so that it can sequester carbon and just not have human impact on it.

Tanja Hester:
I think about a lot of folks I know here who love to home brew. And if you really love that and you're going to do it for a long time, that's great. But if you're thinking, "Oh, I buy a lot of beer and that comes with cans and bottles." Think about how much gear you actually need to do home brewing. You need all these buckets and you need metal tubes and you need a lot of stuff. And if you do what a lot of folks do, which is invest in all the gear and then give up that hobby, you've now gotten a whole bunch of stuff that's very specialized, that you can't easily use for other things, and then you're still having all the waste of the bottles and cans. Which by the way, bottles and cans, people shouldn't stress about. Just make sure they get recycled. Those are actually recycled at a high rate and are not a huge deal.

Tanja Hester:
So, that's really where I say it. It's also, I don't want anyone to feel pressure to DIY things, when you have a very busy life and you've got demands on your time. You need to work. You need to earn a living. All the things you need to do. I say, do DIY stuff if you love it, if it's fulfilling to you in some way but don't feel like you must. If that's not something that's doable for you, there are other good ways to be a wallet activist.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that theme that also runs throughout your book where you do talk about the fact that people should be realistic about what they can do. It doesn't have to be all at once. You don't need to overhaul your life immediately upon reading the book and treat it like a checklist and go through each thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most importantly, don't be judgy about other people. You make a big point about the fact that if you feel passionate about something like I don't eat meat and it's for a number of reasons, but I'm also aware of a lot of the things that you talk about in the book. But I don't tell other people not to do that. I just say, "I don't eat meat," and I leave it at that. Let them do that. If they ask you more questions, then absolutely you can share some more information, but it's important to not impose your views too strongly because it can backfire.

Tanja Hester:
It absolutely can backfire. You know, I think there is ample research to show that shaming people doesn't work. Shaming corporations, that can work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. That's a PR campaign. That's a whole different thing.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Shaming, very, very wealthy people can work in some instances. But shaming individuals really doesn't work and so there's no point in doing it.

Tanja Hester:
But the other thing and something that I really set out to do with this book is to balance both environmental concerns and human concerns. Oftentimes, those things are posited as opposites, as you can do one but not the other, and I just reject that. I think it's so important that we start thinking about both our fellow humans and the planet together and when we talk about climate change, that we're also talking about inequality and how all of that ties together. That's a big part of it.

Tanja Hester:
I think sometimes in the interest of making an environmental choice, we do things that hurt people. An example I use in the book is the popularity right now of plastic drinking straw bans that are going into place all over the country, all over the world. Those are doing a lot of harm actually to disabled communities. There's this thought of like, "Well, but you have all these other choices. You could use a paper straw." Well guess what? A lot of disabled folks say those don't work. They don't work in hot beverages. They aren't positionable.

Tanja Hester:
Okay, well what about that fancy stainless steel straw? Well, not everyone can afford that. First of all, they're expensive. And second, how are you supposed to clean that on the go and use it every time you're out and about. And so we just aren't having enough of that conversation of balancing both. And so if you're talking about shaming people who use single use plastics, or my favorite is seeing the tweet, that's like, "Hey, look at this peeled apple that's wrapped in plastic." Like, yeah. Okay. That is a lot of plastic. That's a bummer. But guess what? The people who need that are people with disabilities, where they can't use their hands properly, or they don't trust themselves to use a knife.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to go through kind of a quick hits list of food advice because this was my favorite area of the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, the question on everyone's mind, the whole organic thing and I'm going to throw in there the whole grass-fed thing, because my son Bradley, he wanted everything grass-fed for a while and it's really expensive, but is it bad if we don't buy grass-fed everything and organic everything? I know the prices are coming down for organic, but talk to us.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, it's funny. Organic is often posited as sort of the panacea. This will fix everything and if you actually look at the science of it, and I say this as a person who loves to buy organic, so I'm talking to myself here too. The truth is a lot of organically produced food actually has a much bigger climate impact than things that are produced more conventionally.

Tanja Hester:
With grass-fed beef, for example, or grass-fed dairy, the cows have to live a lot longer because grass is much less caloric than the grain they're fed in feed lots and so the cows who live in feed lots, those are terrible conditions. I think we can all agree on that and they have a lot of waste they have to deal with. It's not a good system. We need to reform it, but those cows live less than half as long, to get to the same size as the cows that are fed grass.

Tanja Hester:
So if we are just looking at how much beef we want to produce, grass-fed actually has a much, much higher climate impact. So that's not to say-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. It's not to say the industrial side is great, but organic is not automatically a cure-all. I recommend that folks look at organic for most animal products, if possible, and certain produce, especially things that are grains, so that you're avoiding Roundup glyphosate. But I think folks will be shocked to hear that I recommend a lot of non-organic too, because of both the climate impact and the worker impact.

Tanja Hester:
There are a lot more injuries associated with organic fruits and vegetables because they have to do absolutely everything by hand. So those are important things to consider that I haven't seen be included in the conversation so far.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do we do about the whole milk options thing? Because first I was putting almond milk in my coffee. I felt really good about it and then I heard it was really bad. Now I'm doing oat milk but I also feel like rice milk. But I know from your book, rice milk is also not so good. So what do we do? What do we do, Tanja? And the price is that they're always charging me more for... I mean, do we have to pay more for the oat milk? Is it really more for the oat milk or are the coffee place is just charging us more because they can?

Tanja Hester:
With oat milk in particular, they're charging you more because they can. Oats are incredibly cheap to produce. If you were getting organic oats, which is actually really hard to find, that could be worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have no idea.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
No idea.

Tanja Hester:
Most oats are sprayed with Roundup and people don't like hearing that, but the pesticide and herbicide levels in oat-based products are really high. In terms of dairy, non-dairy milks, I mean honestly, I think the answer I want to give folks is don't stress that much about it. Any plant-based milk is better for the planet, for people, for animal welfare, than dairy.

Tanja Hester:
So this getting ourselves tied up in knots about how many gallons go into a gallon of almond milk? Okay, yeah. Like that's true but it also is true that we're reforesting California Central Valley, when we grow almond trees that are replacing cotton, which is a much more water intensive crop.

Tanja Hester:
So everything exists on a spectrum. My point is not to try to get people twisted in knots. It's to say actually, stop twisting yourself in knots. If you're doing any non-dairy milk, you're doing great. Do organic with soy and with oat. With the rest, don't stress about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Final question before we wrap up. Give us your tips about food waste because food waste really costs people so much money, myself included. I am terrible at food inventory management. Things go bad all the time. I have the best intentions. I want to do a fancy recipe and then I'm missing one ingredient. I don't do it that night and then it just never happens and that fabulous herb that I bought goes bad. What do we do?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, food waste is a huge, huge problem. So some tips are, a lot of these I think folks have probably seen around, but making a meal plan before you shop, trying not to shop for a few weeks so that you can eat down what you already have. I love your example of the recipe. You know, don't buy some fad ingredient unless you have the recipe and have all the things for it and you know, you're going to make it right away.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself sort of face up to your food waste. Put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family or you create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. And then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eyeopening and that can be really motivating. So once you see the types of foods you're wasting most, or where the sources are, you can start to come up with a plan. Maybe it's serving smaller portions for everyone, but letting them take seconds instead of putting big portions on the plate. Once you've sort of come face-to-face with your food waste, you can make a plan to reduce it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I'm kind of sitting here processing that, getting ready to reveal that to my husband, who I'm sure will be thrilled to have all of our food waste in our refrigerator, front and center, for a week. So we're going to work on that here in my home, but in the meantime, Tanja, congratulations on the book again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people be in touch with you? I know the book is going to be available everywhere, so please pick up Wallet Activism, everyone. Where can they reach you?

Tanja Hester:
My website is ournextlife.com and I'm most active on Twitter and Instagram and that's at our_nextlife. I also recently joined TikTok, which is so embarrassing for a person over 40. That's @walletactivism.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it and you have a podcast as well, right? Now with Wallet Activism?

Tanja Hester:
Yes, that's right. It's called Wallet Activism, same as the book, and you can find it in all the podcast places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many takeaways from our interview. I personally am bracing for a big post-pandemic closet clean-out and knowing what Tanja had to say about what really goes on when we donate clothing and other goods to charity is really making me think twice about what to do with all of that. So I'm definitely going to be checking out those, buy nothing groups, because I really have so much stuff that is perfectly good. I don't want to throw it out because it's perfectly good but if I said it to charity, well, it may not get to the right place either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends. There was a lot to digest in this episode, but do not stress. We have it all for you right on my website. You can get a full transcript of the show, along with resources and so on, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com and just click on the podcast tab.

Bobbi Rebell:
What got you thinking in this interview? For me, it was the whole plastic straw thing. It shows we really have to think broadly about these decisions and there's a lot of gray areas out there. You really have to think through what this means for different people versus what this also means for our planet. It's complicated. DM me and let me know your take and what really stood out to you. On Instagram, I am at BobbiRebell1. The number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Wallet Activism author, Tanja Hester, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, it's brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Susan McPherson, author of the new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships shares 5 specific tips to connect and intentionally leverage your network of friends and colleagues. 

Susan’s 5 Easy Tips for Daily Connection

#1 - Spend a little bit of time reflecting and thinking about what it is you want to accomplish when you emerge. Think about the communities and the people you want to surround you because you do have this opportunity now.

#2 - Maybe it's time to forget FOMO, that fear of missing out and instead create JOMO, which is a little bit different than what you may think. Instead of the joy of missing out, it's actually the joy of meeting others. As we return to a sense of normalcy, consider becoming a convener. For those of you who tend to be more introverted, this does not mean you have to gather a hundred people. You can create a convening of four friends or four colleagues and ask them to each bring one and voila! No more FOMO.

#3 - Ask questions. To truly build connection, I would highly recommend learning the art of the ask. Have five or six questions at the ready, that will help you elicit meaningful responses from those you are chatting with. So instead of just talking about yourself, start asking people questions, not about the weather, not about what they had for lunch today, but how they honestly are doing, or how have they fared during the last 12 months and what are they looking forward to, in the next 12 months?

#4- Let's step up our listening skills and believe it or not, something like 75% of the time, most of us are distracted and that's partially due to all the devices and all of just the daily mayhem, that every one of us lives through. But I carry a notebook with me now, and maybe that's just a sign of my aging feeble brain, but more importantly, it helps me remember when somebody tells me something about themselves and therefore I'm able to follow up, in a more expedient and more reliable fashion.

#5- Once you've listened, after asking the important questions, the followup is vitally important because that establishes trust. It establishes reliability and dependability, all the things that you want to be, professionally and probably personally as well. So if you truly listen and go so far as take notes, you will have all the tools you need to actually artfully follow up and be effective.

Bobbi’s Takeaways:

#1 - Create a system to track those connections. Susan talked about carrying a notebook to jot things down about people so she doesn't forget. I'm going to write that down, to come up with a system for myself, because if I had a notebook, I'd probably misplace the notebook, but I'm going to come up with a system, probably something on my phone, because even though I tend to lose my phone, I do always seem to find it.

#2 - Make it personal. So Susan talked about reaching out to a handful of people each day. I've been on the receiving end of this from Susan and it's awesome. She sends these photos from gatherings that she's had with me in it with a quick, "Thinking of you." Takes probably a moment on her time, but it totally makes my day.

Get your copy of The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Business Relationships today!

Follow Susan!

• Instagram - @susanmcp1

• Twitter- @susanmcp1

• LinkedIn- Susan McPherson

• Website- www.mcpstrategies.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com/

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Full Transcript:

Susan McPherson: This is a way of leading yourself professionally and personally, to be of support because it all will come back. It will all come back around and I can honestly say the dopamine you get, it feels really good to be helping others.

Bobbi Rebell: You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Hey friends, today's show is going to put a smile on your face. This week's financial grownup is my dear friend, Susan McPherson. She is back to share her pandemic project, and that is her new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships. Susan is the founder and CEO of McPherson Strategies, a communications consultancy that focuses on the intersection of brands and social impact. When not in quarantine, Susan's a prominent speaker at top conferences around the globe. She's also a contributor to the Harvard Business Review, Fast Company and Forbes, and you've probably seen or heard her or read her work in the media everywhere from NPR to CNN, to USA today, the New Yorker, New York Magazine and The Los Angeles Times and many more. She is also an angel investor, and if we're going to cut to the chase, she is huge on social media. By the way, fun fact, Susan has run six marathons.

Bobbi Rebell: Her book, for us, could not come at a more perfect time. As I read the book, I got so many ideas of things that I can do to specifically enjoy spending time with people and frankly, being a better friend and being a more effective person in my business and professional relationships and just enjoying it all more. And a reminder, you're going to be tempted to take notes but please focus your attention on the gems that Susan shares. We've got a summary for you right on my website, BobbiRebell.com. Just go to the Financial Grownup Podcast dropdown menu and when you click on Susan's episode, you'll see that summary, along with all the links you need and below that, a full transcript. Here is Susan McPherson. Susan McPherson, welcome back. You are a financial grownup. We're so happy to have you here again.

Susan McPherson: Bobbi, I couldn't pick a better place to be.

Bobbi Rebell: We are going to be talking about your new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships and what better time than now when we are just on the cusp, I hope, oh please, I hope of getting out of this debacle that has been quarantine, COVID-19 and the last year, right?

Susan McPherson: Absolutely. But I have to say, if anything, over this last year, one thing we all have realized is how much we miss human connection.

Bobbi Rebell: So true, and you are the ultimate connector. I mean, literally so funny because at the beginning of this book, you talk about the fact that some people have called you a human CRM app and that's so true.

Susan McPherson: It is something I have loved all my life so what better than to excel at something that you love doing?

Bobbi Rebell: Well as someone that has personally benefited from your generosity and your graciousness and your giving nature, I can just, first of all, attest to the truth of that. You did bring with you five practical tips for daily connection with colleagues, neighbors, and others in your community and network. That's the formal name, but you know what? Really we're talking about how to reset after everything that's been going on. What's your first tip?

Susan McPherson: Spend a little bit of time now, reflecting and thinking about what it is you want to accomplish when you emerge. Do some old fashion navel-gazing and think about the communities and the people you want to surround you because you do have this opportunity now.

Bobbi Rebell: Very well said, what is your second tip?

Susan McPherson : Maybe it's time to forget FOMO, that fear of missing out and instead create JOMO, which is a little bit different than what you may think. Instead of the joy of missing out, it's actually the joy of meeting others. As we return to a sense of normalcy, consider becoming a convener, and I will say for those of you who tend to be more introverted, this does not mean you have to gather a hundred people. You can create a convening of four friends or four colleagues and ask them to each bring one and voila, no more FOMO.

Bobbi Rebell: I love that, and it reminds me, and we're going to digress just for a moment of part of your book, where you talk about creating rituals, something our mutual friend, Erica Keswin talks about in her latest book, but that could be part of getting that done, of JOMO.

Susan McPherson: Absolutely. It doesn't all have to be sitting around, having cocktails. You can gather groups for taking a walk and talk. You can gather groups for a cooking class. Again, we've been doing this in some shape, way or form online, but now you have an opportunity to actually potentially maybe by the summer in small groups, doing it in real life.

Bobbi Rebell: Oh, we all can't wait for that. What is your third tip?

Susan McPherson: Well, and this is a big component of the book and it's ask. Ask questions. To truly build connection, first, I would highly recommend learning the art of the ask. Have five or six questions at the ready, that will help you elicit meaningful responses from those you are chatting with. So instead of just talking about yourself, start asking people questions, not about the weather, not about what they had for lunch today, but how they honestly are doing, or how have they fared during the last 12 months and what are they looking forward to, in the next 12 months?

Bobbi Rebell: And one underlying theme in your book, by the way, is the importance of curiosity.

Susan McPherson: Yes. And to me, it's a drug and a positive drug because it is curiosity that leads you to the path to understand and appreciate people for where they are and see people, and most importantly, that curiosity helps you then to be able to follow up and be supportive.

Bobbi Rebell: Which is another big theme in your book, and that brings us to your fourth tip.

Susan McPherson: Yes, well, it's important of course, to ask, but we won't be successful at asking if we don't know how to listen. So number four is, let's step up our listening skills and believe it or not, something like 75% of the time, most of us are distracted and that's partially due to all the devices and all of just the daily mayhem, that every one of us lives through. But I carry a notebook with me now, and maybe that's just a sign of my aging feeble brain, but more importantly, it helps me remember when somebody tells me something about themselves and therefore I'm able to follow up, in a more expedient and probably more reliable fashion.

Bobbi Rebell: That really is everything, and so let's talk about following up and let's get to your fifth tip.

Susan McPherson: My fifth tip is essentially that. Once you've listened, after asking the important questions, the followup is vitally important because that establishes trust. It establishes reliability and dependability, all the things that you want to be, professionally and probably personally as well. So if you truly listen and go so far as take notes, you will have all the tools you need to actually artfully follow up and be effective. I want to just caveat all of this, Bobbi, this isn't about putting everyone else before you, but this is a way of leading yourself, professionally and personally, to be of support, because it all will come back. It will all come back around and I can honestly say the dopamine you get, and you know this Bobbi, you support so many women and men and probably children. That notion, it feels really good to be helping others.

Bobbi Rebell: That reminds me of some advice that your father gave you growing up that really still resonates with you and really hit home for me.

Susan McPherson: Yes, and that was to always ask first how you can be of help, before stepping up and doing.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah and what would be an example of how someone could put that into, I mean, what I love about this book also is it's so specific and practical, give us some examples first of that, of how someone would put that into their life. Then I'm going to try to squeeze it in one more question before we wrap.

Susan McPherson: Just a week ago, a dear friend of mine introduced me to a lovely woman who is trying to expand her portfolio. She and I had a 30 minute conversation, literally an hour after a conversation, I was able to introduce her to the executive director of an organization whose board I serve on, and literally the next day, she had an opportunity to actually lead a workshop for that organization. So that all happened within 24 hours. I didn't ask for anything in return. Having the conversation with this wonderful woman named Natalie, after that conversation, I was so impressed that I introduced her, again to the executive director of a board whose organization I serve on and was able to facilitate an opportunity for her. That was a perfect example of how it wasn't a huge lift on my part yet it enormously helped Natalie and it also helped the organization for which the board I serve on.

Bobbi Rebell: Absolutely, and it also goes to the fact that we get so busy in our lives, that we sometimes go through phases where we feel like we have to say no to even have time to breathe, and then you have to balance that, because you also have some good advice, you say, "Always take the meeting." Tell us more about that and why that is so important.

Susan McPherson: Well, I have the proof in the pudding for that, and that is, my company is now eight years old and seven years in, I realized that 98% of our business had been inbound, which is pretty remarkable for a consulting firm. I realized that in my twenties and thirties, all those meetings I took, that were yes, challenging at times because of course I was busy, those people came back 20, 30 years later, and it wasn't like when I was 25, I was saying, "Oh, I'm going to be calling on you in 2020 when I have a company, to see if you'll buy services from me." It was not even a glimmer in my brain. So every single person we meet is a conduit to something else, to someone else, to something new, to learn something about ourselves, and if we don't open those doors and we don't take those meetings, we are missing tremendous opportunities. I fervently believe that, and I live that every day.

Bobbi Rebell: It's so true. So many major things in my life have happened by almost chance meetings, little meetings that you didn't think were going to be meaningful, and then they do end up having a huge impact sometimes right then, as in the case you described earlier and sometimes not for years later, and that's also important. They're true friendships. The final thing I wanted to just touch on is you talk about expressing gratitude and that's something that sometimes gets lost in the hustle and bustle. I've certainly been guilty of not always properly thanking everyone that's done amazing things for me. It's tough. We get so busy and so distracted and are just keeping up with the world, certainly as we get back into, hopefully some sense of normalcy now. Talk to me more about expressing gratitude and specific ways that people can do that.

Susan McPherson : Don't overthink it. Sometimes just a quick phone call, a quick text, a DM, shining a light on socials, showcasing someone else. Those are all very immediate, quick and simple and easy. You don't have to go so far as sending flowers or sending cookies, although that's certainly a wonderful thing to do, but whatever is going to be the most expedient way, sometimes, is the best way, because that's the way it'll get done. But I think it's important to plan one bit of gratitude, every single day, and that includes gratitude for yourself.

Bobbi Rebell: And as you mentioned earlier, it's important to give, but it's also important to be practical and also look out for yourself.

Susan McPherson: Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell: Susan, this has been so wonderful. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you. We know your book is going to be on sale, literally everywhere. So I hope people will pick it up and continue to get all of these incredible gems. It is very readable. I will tell you that.

Susan McPherson: Aww.

Bobbi Rebell: It's precise, specific, practical in all the best ways, and yet it has the warmth of your personality in it. Where can people follow up with you, once they get the book?

Susan McPherson: First of all, I am glowing. Thank you so much. Hearing that from you means the world to me, Bobbi. I have so much respect for you personally, professionally. Thank you. You can find me at my company's website, McPStrategies.com. I'm on all the social platforms with the name @SusanMcP1 and of course the book can be purchased at your local bookstores or any of the major online booksellers, and I am grateful for you to give it a shot.

Bobbi Rebell: Thank you so much.

Susan McPherson: Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell: All right, guys, that was an awesome interview. Here's my take. Financial grownup tip number one, create a system to track those connections. Susan talked about carrying a notebook to jot things down about people so she doesn't forget. I'm going to write that down, to come up with a system for myself, because if I had a notebook, I'd probably misplace the notebook, but I'm going to come up with a system, probably something on my phone, because even though I tend to lose my phone, I do always seem to find it, but you get the idea and by the way, feel free to send me your suggestions for how I can implement Susan's methodology for this, but we're going to go with the phone for now.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial grownup tip number two, make it personal. So Susan talked about reaching out to a handful of people each day. I've been on the receiving end of this from Susan and it's awesome. She sends these photos from gatherings that she's had with me in it with a quick, "Thinking of you." Takes probably a moment on her time, but it totally makes my day. So I want to ask you guys, what little things make big impacts on your days? DM me on Instagram, @BobbiRebell1, I would love more ideas. And while you're at it, help me give away some incredible books.

Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com, and if you enjoy the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grown-up life.

Don’t wait until January!! Friend of the podcast Allison Task is back with her latest project: A Year of Self Care Journal. Find out how you can create a healthy financial ecosystem, get tips for active listening and the difference between responding and reacting and so much more.  

Money Tips

• Create a healthy financial ecosystem

• Get tips for active listening

• Learn the difference between responding and reacting

• How to make the most of the Self Care Journal
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Allison Task:
Dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where are money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers. That's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to an all new episode of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. You guys are in for a treat today because it is all about you putting yourself first as you should and not waiting until the new year. I'm really excited to bring back career coach, mentor, life coach, all around wise person. An author, Allison Task, she's a guest so many of you wrote me about that you loved, as did I. Because Allison just gets it. And she isn't afraid to dish out some tough love to get all of us to a better place.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get a lot of books sent to me asking if the author could be featured on the show and I really try to limit the number of sort of journals as we head into the new year. Some of them are really good, but a lot of them are kind same old, same old. This is very different. It is, I don't know what to say, just substantial. There's a lot more to it and a lot of thought that went into it. And most of all, it's definitely not something you want to wait on. You want to get this now and not just wait to the new year. So in this case, I actually reached out to Allison Task and I bought myself this journal because I wanted it now, I didn't want to wait. And it really is a next level version of something that so many other people are doing, but just not as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you listen to the interview with Allison, you're going to start to understand why it is simply called a year of self-care journal. So in our interview, Allison and I talk about some very real world situations, including ... and this gets really personal, I was kind of a little surprised she went there. But Allison talks about how she talks about money with her husband and even revealed some of the conversations that they had when things got really dicey during the pandemic. She gets really candid about how her life changed, some big decisions that had to be made. And how this project, the journal, came to be. We talk about active listening, communicating boundaries, and the difference between reacting and responding. Get ready, guys, this is good. Here is Alison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alison Task, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad to have you back. You were here a little while ago to talk about personal revolution. It's like our important to sort of like evolution, everyone should check out that book and that at episode. Which of course, we have to be like so podcast cliche and be like, "Go to our show notes for the link to that." But I have you back because you have a new book. It is called A Year of Self-care, it's a journal. Allison, first of all, welcome, welcome, welcome. And tell us about the new book.

Allison Task:
So, the new book is something that I created so that people could have really tangible exercises. You know me, right? I'm a coach, I'm a life coach, career coach. And what happens out of my room is more important than what happens in the room. While in conversation with people, we have work to do. And I wanted to create something so that people could go home at night and do the work. That's where the rubber hits the road, you be with your coach, but it's in your weekly runs that you really get stuff done. That was the idea for this book. And it's a journal. So every week has either a quote or some sort of topic to keep you thinking and then an action. And it's designed to happen anytime over the course of a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. And the other thing that I really like about it is they're really substantial, and they're thoughtful, and there's themes that come back throughout the book, which I like. Because you want reinforcement, you don't want just one time to be told, "Oh, think about your sleep and how that impacts the rest of your life." They're recurring themes and I really like that positive reinforcement. Especially when we are home more than we used to be, even as the world opens up. And this is a time when people really want to be thinking about how they're living their life.

Allison Task:
Right. So it's very intentional. And when you talk about the themes, there are five specific areas that I focus on. I focus on self care in terms of the physical, the mental, the spiritual, and the emotional. Like those three always get put together. So physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, and social.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I cheated a little and looked ahead and went through the book to pull out some of my favorite week challenges, prompts, whatever you want to call it. So I want to ask you to elaborate on a few of them, just to give people a little bit of a teaser of the book, sneak, peek, whatever you want to call it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one of my favorites is week seven, which is about making an honest assessment of your financial situation including creating a healthy financial ecosystem. And that's something, by the way, sneak peek, also, Allison you're featured in my upcoming book that's coming out in March, Launching Financial Grownups. You had amazing advice for parents. We talked about the financial ecosystem a bit there, too.

Allison Task:
Absolutely. I can't tell you how many clients I meet at all levels of economics who I'll say, "What is your budget? Do you know what you're spending a month or a year?" They'll say, "No." And dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where our money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers, that's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's hard to make time to do that even when we have a lot of time. So that's one of the reasons it's nice to have a physical book with actual prompts because you can go to the other financial stakeholders in your family, which may be a husband, a wife, whomever it is. But the people that your finances overlap with and say, "Look, I'm working on this. I need your help. Can you participate in this exercise this week?" So I think that's a great thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk about practicing active listening. It's so important in life, but also it's important for career and business success. We've learned that a little bit with Zoom because we can't talk over each other as much as we might in person. But tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, active listening, to me, it's a gift you're giving to the person you're speaking with. I'm speaking right now, you're giving me the space, you're not stepping on me. And now the next part is ... and we don't have to do this in the interview. But it's, "Here's what I heard you say, Allison." It's actively giving space, then even a little extra space when the person finishes. And then letting you know they were heard.

Allison Task:
If there's community, the level of connectivity that happens when a person feels heard is very powerful. It's relief, you can feel it in your body and you feel it because there's me and you and the space between us. And the space between us grows wider and more powerful, we connect more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one of my favorites here was communicating boundaries. This is really important as we start going back into the world. You mentioned your PTA president, I'm actually the class mom, whatever you want to call it, for my son's grade. And we get pulled into ... you're silently applauding me, but I'm sort of mixed feelings about it. Because we sometimes say yes, and when you say yes to something, you are kind of saying no to something else. So it's really important to be selective and to create those boundaries. Tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, yes. Congratulations and thank you for stepping up in this leadership role. Yeah, fuzzy boundaries like this, emotional boundaries with your kids, showing up, volunteering is some of the fuzziest of boundaries. And so where do we want to go? Checking in with ourself. When you feel you're getting pulled, I sense resistance. And it's very much okay. And trust me as a PTA president, I'm always having people tell me, no. But when people tell me, yes, I go, "Great. How do you want to build this? How will this work for you?" I do not want a single volunteer that isn't thrilled to be there because then the work doesn't get done in a passive aggressive way and I'm not interested in wasting time with that. So if you want to stand up, how do you want to stand up? So maybe defining for yourself how you want to be a class parent. I will spend no more than two hours a week on this. Some weeks I'll go to 10 for big weeks, but that's it. And you can say no and say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that a lot. The other thing I really like is further on ... actually this is the final one, so I'm giving everyone ... it's not a spoiler, but anyway. It's consider the range of responses, the difference between responding and reacting. And I was like, "Hmm." I read that, I'm like, "I really have to process that because they are very different." And very often we're reactive when really we should be a little bit more thoughtful and think about our response.

Allison Task:
Right. And active listening helps you with that. Responding is taking a beat, thinking, giving space. And reacting is quicker. I was visiting relatives in Rochester the summer and she said, "The difference between the downstate city folk and us is, we just take that space." And you gave that some space, which I appreciate. Because you were considering it. Respond. React is, "No, no, no, that's not what I said. No, no, I meant something totally different." It's high pitched, it's frenetic, it's pitchy, it's up here. It's not deeper, stronger.

Bobbi Rebell:
The final thing that I want to ask you to tell us more about of these 52 amazing prompts. You talk about ... this is really towards the beginning, if your ship doesn't come in ... this is a quote because you have the quotes and then you have the actions. If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to meet it. I want to hear more about that. Because many of us are still home, we're starting to go back to offices, back to socializing, back to in-person activities and networking. And this is a time when we have to remember that if we just sit back, sometimes the ship doesn't come into us. Sometimes we do have to force ourselves and I find myself sometimes really not wanting to go to things. Even though I do miss friends, I do miss going out. We kind of got used to just not.

Allison Task:
Well dirty little secret, boy was I happy to have all those obligations off of my docket. And I sense you're feeling that way, too. And so ... ah, you're giving me the side eye. So that's a boundary thing. Here's what I learned about myself during the pandemic, I tend to overbook and I really value my downtime and I don't have that much of it. You're a person who puts yourself out there in public for a career, maybe you really treasure that reconnection, rejuvenation, repair time. You're out so much, you got to go in, too. I think that's important. I'm not sure that I answered your exact question because I flipped it [crosstalk 00:11:55]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I guess the question is, though, at a certain point, you also have to say, "Okay, but I do have a business, I do have to earn income." And it's not going to happen. If I just wait for the ship to come to me, maybe I have to go out and meet the ship. I mean, that really hit home with me that we do have to motivate. Yes, we've learned how much we need that rejuvenation, how much we do need that downtime. But we also have to remember, there's a reason why people go to in person business trips, for example. There's a reason why we would meet somebody in person to have coffee or lunch or whatever it may be. Because you do connect with of people sometimes on a very different level when you do have those in-person experiences. And that's something that we're all figuring out right now, what is the balance? Because of what you just said.

Allison Task:
That's a really powerful part of self-care. Self-care isn't just the repair and the snuggling in the cashmere. Self-care is also taking action, growing. I like the concept that you're either comfortable or you're growing. And if you're waiting on the couch or by the edge of the sea, maybe you're comfortable and maybe you need a little goose. Maybe you need to goose your system. Maybe your business is running perfectly fine, but then have that moment with yourself where you sit down and have a little offsite with you. Maybe it's down insight in your home. And you're like, "Is this where I want my business to go? Where do I want my business in ten years, five years? Then what are my goals for this year?" So that's assert yourself. One of the WHO things, The World Health Organization, I believe was agency. It's empowerment, autonomy, self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
Self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
There you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you gave me the perfect lead in and because you also have a whole business. Books are just a tiny part of all that you do. So tell us about that and how people can be in touch with you and learn more about everything besides your books. We know your books are everywhere.

Allison Task:
Yeah, they are live and large. So I have a personal coaching business, I work privately with individuals to coach them. I have been hired by organizations, but I prefer to keep my work really intimate, working directly with the person who hires me. My name is Alison Task. My website is AllisonTask. And currently available working with private clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And it's great that you can be available for people, but also if that's not an option for somebody, they can definitely get your books and other resources. So thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison was so great, as always, so perceptive. Just really nails it and calls us out for the things that we know we should be doing, but we don't always actively pay attention to. I particularly loved what she had to say about volunteering, which is something I have mixed feelings about. Also how to say no, but also say yes. And I was struck by what she had to say about the fact that we tend to just react to things when we really should take a beat and think about our response. Take some space, give other people a little space.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would love to hear from all of you about what resonated with you. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. And please take a moment to share this episode on social media or just directly share with your friends that might enjoy it. I really need your help to grow this podcast, it is truly a labor of love. And for that reason, each and every one of you matters to me. So I am sincere when I ask you to be in touch. I want to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't wait until the new year to pick up Allison's book, A Year of Self-care Journal. Allison Task always brings it and we are so thankful for her coming back to the podcast to help us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a Production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, Guest Coordination, Content Creation, Social Media Support and Show Notes By Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.