The best-selling author reveals what happened when her dad opened her mail and saw her credit card debt, and the surprising result when she and her husband cut their budget by 90 percent. Plus a preview of her new book: Your Turn: How to be an Adult. 

Julie’s Money Lesson:

Okay, the recliner. I'm starting to make a lot of money. I'm making enough that my husband is like, "How would you feel about me being a full-time artist?" And I was like, “Yes!”. I was supporting a family of four. My husband became a full-time artist and we started spending money. We're buying the nicer table. We're buying the nicer artwork. We're buying the nicer recliner. We realized that our set point of what we could just spend money on, in terms of discretionary spending, had just increased as our salary increased. We're looking around like we're making far more money than we ever had, but we're not saving a darn thing. What is up? And we realized that set point was just out of control. We were just dropping $1,000 without thinking about it. I read up, I talked to people and I learned this rule of if you want to save, you want to change your habits, you don't just try to start saving 5% or 10% if you've been saving nothing, you need to start saving for yourself first. You need to pay yourself first and decide what your savings goals are and set that to the side and then pay the rest of your bills. And that meant that our discretionary spending, we were going to cut by 95% or by 90%. If we were spending $1,000 on a recliner, when we had to buy the second recliner, it was going to be $100. And I was bummed because the second recliner was for me and my husband had the fancy recliner. We went to the cheaper furniture store and sat in recliners. And we had these down, sad faces, like “poor us” right? And I sound so privileged talking about this. I realize some people are like, "$100 is a lot of money." I'm just saying for me, it was a big cut. And then we found this recliner for $100 that is so comfortable. It is like the recliner of choice. You come to our house, everyone gravitates to it. It looks comfortable and it is comfortable. It's the kind of thing when you push the buttons and it starts to leans back, you're like, "Ah". It feels like a spa. And it's the cheapest thing in the whole downstairs of our house. Cut spending on something by 90% and see if you noticed.

Bobbi’s Takeaways:

#1 - Julie jokes about how retirement is over romanticized and I couldn't agree more. Work is not just a path to retirement. We put in about a third of our 24 hour day, and for many of us, a lot more than those eight hours. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you are laser focused on retirement, consider refocusing that energy on enjoying your day to day more. If there's anything we've learned during the pandemic, it's that we should not assume things need to stay the same. Hit pause, give yourself some grownup tough love and fix it.

#2 - Let's get better about asking our friends and colleagues of different backgrounds and races about their experiences with money. Even though Julie clearly and candidly talks about how being a person of color impacted her money decisions in the book, as a white person I wasn't sure about asking Julie about it. I'm really glad I did. I'm not sure why I was so hesitant. And I hope we can all make time to both listen and share with each other as well. And in case you're wondering, as a white person in this country, it never even occurred to me that I needed to use a credit card to prove I belonged in a store. We need to be talking about this.

Get your copy of YOUR TURN: How to Be an Adult today!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

It is officially spring. And that means graduation season is on. We here at The Financial Grownup Podcast have created some new super fun gifts just for that in our grownupgear.com merch store. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and the seriously, most cozy and comfortable sweaters all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. Grownup Gear also makes great gifts for Mother's Day, Father's Day, engagements, bachelor/bachelorette, parties birthdays, and of course, just for fun to treat yourself. Use code graduation for a 15% discount. And thank you in advance for your orders. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and we truly appreciate your support.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

They handed me a check for the full amount, $3,900 plus change, and I felt so shamed and so just embarrassed. Here I am highly educated, a fancy degree from a fancy college and I'd managed to get so far in the hole. And I just cried. I just cried. Tears just rolled down my face.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hello, my grownup friends. It is April. I am so happy it's April. I don't know about you, but I just, I needed the better weather. Speaking to you from my home in New York City, where we've had a very brutal winter. I was fortunate. I got to go to Florida for a little bit, but we've been home for a while and this better weather could not come at a better time.

Bobbi Rebell:

And also, as some of you get to see, it's very much a work in progress, you see it on my Instagram, but I do get to go out and play golf, which is a really great way to spend time. Anyway, let's talk about this week's Financial Grownup. The adjective that I am going to use to describe her, delightful, Julie Lythcott-Haims is out with a new book, Your Turn: How to be an Adult. It is the much anticipated follow-up to her previous book, How to Raise an Adult, and not to be forgotten in between those, Real American: A Memoir, and a very personal book, which continues to grow in relevance.

Bobbi Rebell:

Julie is a former Stanford Dean. She left that position to pursue her passion, the career she'd always dreamed about, writing. You know what? It's working out okay. Julie's new book, Your Turn: How to be an Adult, is about more than just being a Financial Grownup, though she does have a chapter which is pretty much on the topic. Chapter eight, check it out. The book is about being a full on adult, but for the purposes of this podcast, she was a good sport and gets candid about her money blunders and victories. Here is Julie Lythcott-Haims. Julie Lythcott-Haims, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Bobbi, no one's ever said that to me before. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

You are very much a Financial Grownup. You're the author of Your Turn: How to be an Adult. Welcome.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I think I'm going to learn something.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm going to ask you to share a money story from the book, which has to do with credit card debt, but there's a really interesting angle that has to do with how you relate to your family, which is so appropriate when we talk about Financial Grownups.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. Thanks for pointing to something that's deeply personal. No, of course. I shared it in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's in the book, Julie.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I know. I'm trying to be vulnerable with my readers so that they can feel more safe and seen. Okay, picture me. I now 53, but in the story, I was maybe 22. I had amassed a lot of credit card debt in college. I was at Stanford University. The student union was basically lined with the desks of fakes who were there to offer me a credit card application. And I filled out maybe two of them. I had two credit cards. I would use my credit cards at the local shopping center. I would use them for groceries. I would use them for dinners and lunches out and coffee. I was just, I was spending money without having really learned the habits of how you keep track of your expenses and the whole interest part with credit cards. Long and short, I had accumulated about $3,900 in debt.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

This would be around 1990, 1991. Maybe double that, maybe like $6,000, $7,000 in today's dollars. I had no way to pay it off. My first job I'd earned $20,000 a year. It's hard to pay down a debt of $3,000 when you're only earning $20,000 gross. And I was headed off to law school and was living with my parents over the summer before law school started. And so my mail, including my bills, was being forwarded to my parents' address. Well, unbeknownst to me, after I had opened the latest credit card bill showing just how much I owed, my parents had read it as well.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

One night they just solemnly came toward me and said, "You're about to go start grad school and you're getting married. And we want you to start life with Dan", my boyfriend and soon to be husband, "with a financial clean slate. So here's a check." They handed me a check for the full amount, $3,900 plus change. And I felt so shamed. And so just embarrassed. Here I am highly educated, a fancy degree from a fancy college, and I'd managed to get so far in the hole and I just cried. I just cried. Tears just rolled down my face. They weren't judgmental. They weren't scolding me. They were offering me this gift.

Bobbi Rebell:

There's also another lesson for our listeners about relationships and how you communicate with your family.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. That really pushes the button, right? I think I was so ashamed that I had let them down by being this child of theirs who had been so irresponsible. And I think the lesson is had I only reached out sooner. I just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper by paying the minimum on my credit cards. If I had reached out to my parents six months earlier, or a year before, or two years before, I would probably never have gotten into such bad debt to start with.

Bobbi Rebell:

We're going to talk for your everyday money lesson about the fact that you guys like to splurge. But then there was sort of an aha moment. Tell us about the recliner.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Okay, the recliner. I'm starting to make a lot of money. I'm making enough that my husband, who's a designer, a product designer, user experience designer, is like, "How would you feel about me being a full-time artist?" And I was like, yes. Okay, that's how capable I was of supporting a family of four. My husband became a full-time artist and we started spending money. We're buying the nicer table. We're buying the nicer artwork. We're buying the nicer recliner.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

We realized that our set point of what we could just spend money on, in terms of discretionary spending, had just increased as our salary increased. We're looking around like we're making far more money than we ever had, but we're not saving a darn thing. What is up? And we realized that set point was just out of control. We were just dropping $1,000 without thinking about it. I read up, I talked to people and I learned this rule of if you want to save, you want to change your habits, you don't just try to start saving 5% or 10% if you've been saving nothing, you need to start saving for yourself first.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

You need to pay yourself first and decide what your savings goals are and set that to the side and then pay the rest of your bills. And that meant that our discretionary spending, we were going to cut by 95% or by 90%. If we were spending $1,000 on a recliner, when we had to buy the second recliner, it was going to be $100. And I was bummed because the second recliner was for me and my husband had the fancy recliner. We went to the cheaper furniture store and sat in recliners. And we had these down, sad faces, like poor us, we can only, right? And I sound so privileged talking about this. I realize some people are like,"$100 is a lot of money."

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I'm just saying for me, it was a big cut. And then we found this recliner for $100 that is so comfortable. It is like the recliner of choice. You come to our house, everyone gravitates to it. It looks comfortable and it is comfortable. It's the kind of thing when you push the buttons and it starts to leans back, you're like, "Ah". It feels like a spa. And it's the cheapest thing in the whole downstairs of our house.

Bobbi Rebell:

But it's good. It's working for you and you saved 90%.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:

Nobody misses not spending the money.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's so great. And yeah, the tip is basically cuts something by 90% and see if you noticed.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Right. That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah. That's a good one.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

100%. Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's talk more about this book. I devoured it. I have to say it's a robust book. This is a book that took a lot of research. I really encourage people, not only to read it, but to settle in with it because it really is worth your time. I picked out a few of the things that I'd like you to elaborate on within the book. And the first one kind of tag team to what we just talked about because there's a lot of talk about cutting your expenses so that you can retire early. That's one of the motivations for taking drastic action when it comes to spending. But you talk about the fact that retiring early is really over romanticized.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

The retiring early rhetoric tends to be, "My job sucks. I can't wait to retire. I'm just going to slog away working in this dungeon so that I can at 55 or 57 or 60, whatever, I can kick back and relax and travel." If that's the choice you're making, more power to you. But in the book, I'm trying to expand people's horizons and get folks to think maybe work doesn't have to feel so awful, such that all you want to do is leave work. Maybe you can lead a career life, a job life, a professional life that is intrinsically rewarding. It feels good. You're tapping into your talents, your strengths, your loves, you're growing. You're making enough money to pay your bills.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

And you're like, "Hey, I'm not eager to retire. I enjoy what I'm doing." And then to put a fine point on it, Bobbi, oftentimes when people retire, that is they cease doing that which they have always done, that which has been a huge part of their identity, they begin to wither psychologically. They begin to wither physically. They begin to wither in terms of their personal connections, because they're not making things with their hands, they're not doing as much with their brain and they're not seeing human beings as much. Retirement can often lead to a downward spiral. If one is not sort of healthy, hail and active in one's retirement, it can really be the beginning of the end.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I'm here to say, love the work you do, do the work you love, make sure it pays your bills and do it for as long as you can and build in the travel and the enjoyment and the fishing and all of that along the way, rather than waiting to live that life you imagined only after you've retired from some terrible job.

Bobbi Rebell:

Such a good reminder. Another thing that really stood out in the book that I went, oh, that I don't think about enough, when you talked about the spending, and this ties into your spending on the credit cards when you were younger especially, you talk about the fact that racial stereotypes played into your spending decisions. Tell us more.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Well, what listeners need to know is I'm a black and biracial woman, very light skin. But nevertheless, I think to the world, unambiguously of color. And most people figure out that I'm black. I, as a young person, had learned to ... I had internalized the hate that I had experienced along the way. Microaggressions, outright racism, these things were things I experienced in childhood. By the time I get to college and I'm at an elite college, I'm at Stanford University in Silicon Valley and I have these credit cards. I am using the credit cards when I'm in a store, in a fancy store, at the Stanford Shopping Center or in a nice restaurant as a way to demonstrate, I have credit, I am capable. You do not have to associate me with that stereotypical black person you think can't afford to purchase your goods, your food, because I have this credit card.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I was really deep in my internalized oppression that I was trying to not be the stereotypical black person. I was trying to be the model Negro, if you will, I'm using terms of stereotype. I have long since grown out of that behavior, but I will say, yeah, the credit card was like an appendage that was proving my ability or my worthiness or my right to be in these white environments. I overspent as a result, I'd be with friends at dinner and say like, you know what? I'll take care of the bill. And I'd plunk down my gold. How did I have a gold American Express card so young? But I did. They knew who they were preying on. It worked, right? I was like, I'll take care of the bill. And it was my way of showing, not just the restaurant, but my friends, I have money, even though I didn't necessarily have the money in the bank to pay that bill.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's a tough situation that society puts people in that mindset.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

We could talk about this a lot more, but this is a short podcast and I want to talk about one final theme. And that is that you really humanize a lot of our experiences with money by bringing stories of other people into the book. I wanted to ask you to share that a little bit.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. Thank you so much. The book is part memoir, me telling my lived experience, as you've just asked me about, me with some self-help tips, practical advice, but then I've got the stories of these other people in every chapter, a really diverse set of people from all walks of life in order to say to all readers, I'm trying to envision all of you as I write this. And the two stories in the money chapter are Wesley, who grew up working poor, put himself through community college, put himself into position of getting to drive for UPS and has been with UPS now for 35 years and will retire with a full pension from UPS.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

It hearkens back to days of yore, when you'd work for one employer all your life, and they were very loyal to you and you were loyal to them and unions were strong and that's not really the way much of the working world works these days, but there are plenty of industries that still do offer pensions, like the package driving industry, like UPS and police and law enforcement more broadly and schools. People who work for the government tend to have a pension. And this is a way to the middle class. Wesley has provided a life for himself, his wife and his son that is just many steps above what he grew up with financially. I wanted that story in there. I think it's a really important story about the American dream and that in many ways it is alive and well today.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

The other story is Denae, who's a dancer, got an undergraduate degree and a master's in dance. She's a professional dancer in New York City. She's done some amazing gigs, but dancing gigs come and they go. And when they go, she doesn't have income unless she supplements that with other work, which she does. Nevertheless, she had racked up with interest $50.000 in student loan debt, living in the most expensive city in America, New York, and or one of the most expensive, and she set herself a goal to get out of that credit card debt.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

She said, "I'm going to be debt three and three years." And she did it by being extremely frugal about her food, extremely thoughtful and mindful about her choices, about how she went places, what kinds of places she rented. She would even say when she was working a temp job in between dancing gigs, somebody took her food out of the fridge and started eating it. And she put a note on the refrigerators, "Hey, please don't eat my food. I'm paying down my student loans." And if that wasn't crystal clear, because she didn't know who did it, but she just knew I have to send this message.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

She stood up for herself, both to herself and to her friends and coworkers to say, "Hey, don't take my stuff. I'm paying off my student loan." Really brave. She did pay down that loan. Danced through the subway in a rented dress that she got from Rent the Runway with a big sign saying, "I'm debt-free. Hug me." And then she became a financial planner to help other people. When she's not dancing, she's now a certified financial planner person because she saw how many of her own peers, highly educated, didn't know enough about money. Here's to Denae, very much a resource for other people now that she is completely debt free.

Bobbi Rebell:

I am smiling ear to ear hearing that story. And there's so many other wonderful human stories in this book. We know it's going to be available everywhere. I won't have you say that, but where can people find out more about you and any virtual touring that you're going to be doing, my dear?

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thank you, Bobbi. The best way to be in touch with me is through my website, JulieLythcott-Haims.com. I'm sure Bobbi will put the spelling of that in the show notes. From there, you can follow me on social I'm @JLythcott-Haims everywhere. Maybe even Tik Tok, who knows, we'll see. I'm starting a membership club because I like to get real with people. I like to get really vulnerable and share. I know that that's the way we learn and grow and feel less lonely and I'm starting that. That's all online. Go to my website and just from there, you'll be able to follow me what I'm up to and all the virtual tour stuff will be on there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, thank you so much for this. Thank you for the book and thank you for joining us.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

You're amazing. Thanks for having me. And I actually feel more competent about my financial choices and what I've learned from them because you helped me think it through, by walking through these stories with me. Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

They're all your stories. Thank you.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, my friends, here's my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, Julie jokes about how retirement is over romanticized And I couldn't agree more. Work is not just a path to retirement. We put in about a third of our 24 hour day, and for many of us, a lot more than those eight hours. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you are laser focused on retirement, consider refocusing that energy on enjoying your day to day more. If there's anything we've learned during the pandemic, it's that we should not assume things need to stay the same. Hit pause, give yourself some grownup tough love and fix it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Financial Grownup tip number two, let's get better about asking our friends and colleagues of different backgrounds and races about their experiences with money. Even though Julie clearly and candidly talks about how being a person of color impacted her money decisions in the book, as a white person I wasn't sure about asking Julia about it. I'm really glad I did. I'm not sure why I was so hesitant. And I hope we can all make time to both listen and share with each other as well. And in case you're wondering, as a white person in this country, it never even occurred to me that I needed to use a credit card to prove I belonged in a store. We need to be talking about this.

Bobbi Rebell:

It is Financial Literacy Month and I am giving away a ton of incredible books, including Julie's. You want one? All you have to do is DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and just say, "I'd love a book from a Financial Grownup". The authors that are on this podcast and their publishers are incredibly generous. And I can't wait to send out lots and lots of books. Everyone, pick up Your Turn: How to be an Adult and big thanks to Julie Lythcott-Haims for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:

The Financial Grownup Podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer and Amanda Savan is our talent coordinator and content creators. Yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels. Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life.

Bobbi Rebell:

And this year we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the Grownup list. Go-to BobbiRebell.com to sign up for free, while you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear Shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a Financial Grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoyed the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grownup life.

Jessica Zweig leads the thriving personal branding business: Simply Be. But the author of the new book "Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself” only got to this point in her life because she was able to exit a toxic business relationship that brought her personally and financially to rock bottom. Plus she shares an everyday money tip that will help us reach our goals during the pandemic, no matter what obstacles we are facing. 

Jessica’s Money Story:

My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had 100,000 local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship." And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth. It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch.

Jessica’s Money Lesson:

Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page.

Jessica’s Money Tip:

So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships, and used the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. - This past week the dating app Bumble went public. Its founder,  Whitney Wolfe Herd started Bumble in 2014..  after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder, where she was a co-founder- after a breakup with another co-founder. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and is worth over a billion dollars. 

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

So many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic- in part because it feels like no one is watching. I mean after all. We can and do literally work in our pajamas. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time. Get an accountability partner. Get someone who will be committed to you- and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren’t doing that- break up fast and find another accountability partner. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy, but this more quiet time will come to an end, and the opportunity to get to your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste. 

Get your copy of Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself.

Follow Jessica!

• Twitter - @jessica_zweig

• Instagram - @jessicazweig

• Jessica’s website - www.jessicazweig.com

• Facebook - Jessica Zweig

• LinkedIn - Jessica Zweig

Follow Bobbi!

• Twitter - @bobbirebell

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Merch - grownupgear.com

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: Question for you guys, are we ever going to get back to that whole dress-up for work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJ's and those grungy t-shirts and we need to give ourselves an upgraded but still super comfy wardrobe that makes us smile and ideally makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well.

Bobbi Rebell: I have so many friends that I've wanted to send little pick me ups to to let them know it's all good and that includes you. So that's why I created Grownup Gear a fun line of t-shirts, sweats, pillows, mugs, totes, and more that I guarantee will give you and everyone that you're Zooming with all day long a good giggle. Grownup Gear is about saying the things out loud that we tell ourselves silently like when you wake up and you look in the mirror and you think, "I can't believe I'm a grownup either." Or maybe you just want to be honest that you are still a grownup in progress or you want to send a gift congratulating a friend for paying off their debt. The most comfy sweatshirts, t-shirts, tote bags, mugs, pillows, and more give it to yourself or your favorite grownup or almost grownup friend. Go to grownupgear.com to check it out. For discount codes and sales follow us on Instagram at our new handle at @GrownupGear and DM us with any questions. And thank you because by supporting Grownup Gear you help support this free podcast.

Bobbi Rebell: The debt and the brokeness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would've if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Financial Grownup Podcast. We share money stories here that had big impacts on our guests lives and of course then they share with us the lessons from them. I'm your host Bobbi Rebell, Journalist, Certified Financial Planner and author of the book How To Be a Financial Grownup. If you're new here welcome. I'm so glad you found us.

Bobbi Rebell: So that clip that you heard at the top of the show was from author and personal branding expert Jessica Zweig. Jessica has a new book out called Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. I have to say I love that title. The thing about Jessica is that if you don't know her you would never know all the things that she has had to overcome to well be where she is now that included a toxic business relationship that lasted for seven years. The breakup left her with nothing hitting rock bottom at age 33, even having to ask her parents for money just to pay her phone bill. Just when we think we will be hitting our grownup stride you never know what's going to hit us. There is a lot to learn from this remarkable woman and she does not hold back in this interview. Here is Jessica Zweig.

Bobbi Rebell: Jessica Zweig, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm pumped to be here.

Bobbi Rebell: Well, I am pumped to have you here. Your book Be, I'm holding it up by the way, Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself is about to come out and it's your first book. Congratulations.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much. You know how much goes into it so thank you for saying that.

Bobbi Rebell: I really enjoyed learning so much about you and what you teach people in the book. What's interesting is you come across as having it all together which you do now I'm going to say but it wasn't always the case. You brought with us a money story that is sadly something many of us can relate to but often don't know what to do with, I should say that often don't know what to do about, and that is finding ourselves in toxic relationships personally and in business in work environments. Tell us your money story Jessica.

Jessica Zweig: My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had a hundred thousand local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship."

Jessica Zweig: And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth.

Jessica Zweig: It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch. Bobbi Rebell: When you look back were there red flags that you should have spotted in the relationship, in the business in terms of the skills that you both brought?

Jessica Zweig: From day one. I mean, there were massive red flags. I think I realized three months in just how different we were but we were young and we were so naive and we both really loved this business. This magazine Cheeky was our baby. And so I didn't want to give it up and she didn't want to give it up and at the core there was a magic connection with us. We wouldn't have created what we created if there wasn't that synergistic spark. And we both loved each other to a degree which was what made it so difficult.

Jessica Zweig: But there were red flags and it was honestly one of the most toxic relationships of my life. I mean, we were together for seven years and we were water and vinegar. We were just totally different people. And I'm not saying I was better or she was worse, we were just different. I've come to so much peace and love and honestly forgiveness for myself first in the way that I showed up in that relationship as much as her and how she showed up in the relationship which I think has really been a huge key to me soaring in the last few years because I really did my own work.

Jessica Zweig: I think it's so easy to point fingers at people when they burn us or they hurt us or they come after us. There's that expression when you point one finger at someone, I mean do it, you're pointing three back at yourself. So you really do have to look at yourself in any sort of situation but when it comes to money it's especially loaded and I could still be angry, I could still be bitter, I could still be resentful. I don't feel any of those feelings. And it was the greatest learning lesson of my life. I applied all of those mistakes, all of those failures to simply be and simply be is so successful and it wouldn't have been unless I had that seven year chapter and run of making all of those mistakes.

Jessica Zweig: So, I think that everything happens for a reason and I feel like the debt and the brokenness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would have if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. So, everything happens for a reason and divine order. It's happening for you not to you even though it can really feel the opposite in the moment. I wouldn't be who I am without that business and that failure.

Bobbi Rebell: Can you me a specific example of something that happened that highlighted your differences? It doesn't have to be your biggest fight or something but something especially money related that you just never agreed on.

Jessica Zweig:I think we were both pretty irresponsible with the way we spent the business's money. I really wanted to grow it and scale it and exit. I wanted to be that type of entrepreneur and she wanted it to be a more lifestyle business. If you're going to go into business with anyone whether it's a business partner or someone on your team or your leadership team to really understand those nuances and get everyone on the same page. Because it sets the foundation for the type of business and the rate in which you want to grow and how you want to operate and who you want to do business with so, so much. And we just didn't have the skills. We were so young. We didn't have the tools to talk about money and business at that level. We were green as grass. So, of course it netted out the way that we netted out. And we also were really done when we opened up our credit cards. She was the personal guarantor on the credit cards. It was just mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah. I love that you're talking about the fact that it is so hard to talk about money and it sounds like you guys didn't have a lot of talks about money and how you were going to structure your firm and how you were going to fund it before you started it. What is the lesson for our listeners as we put it all in context?

Jessica Zweig: Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken and I think actually way, way up and make the right decision to partner with the right people in the first place. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page. And yet money makes people funny no matter what and so you really have to recognize that in yourself and in the others and bring as much consciousness and integrity to those kinds of negotiations, conversations, whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell: I could talk to you forever about this but I want to get your everyday money tip because it's something that I am already implementing for 2021 and that is having accountability, having an accountability partner. Talk about that.

Jessica Zweig: Yeah. So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Jessica Zweig: And so, I brought in my husband who is a financial advisor, as well as you are. And his business had kind of slowed down, he couldn't go out and network, we were quarantining. And he's like, "Jess, I'll help you with the PPP." He took one look at my finance team and was like, "Dude, I can do this better." And so I fired my finance team and I hired my husband. And my husband and I have always obviously been partners and accountable to each other because we're married but bringing him into my business...

Jessica Zweig: He's now my CFO, he helps me run the shop, saving money, ensuring that our P and L's are always balanced, making sure we're net profitable. Having someone that I trust, obviously I trust no one more than my own husband but he has really allowed me to fly as the CEO because I know that he's got things covered. And we operate like a legit finance CFO to CEO. We take weekly meetings. He has an agenda. We run through every money in money out, hiring, investments, savings. We don't have any debt in our business. It's a really powerful person, obviously it's my own husband. But if you can have someone to pulse check you, to support you, to believe in you, to honestly be able to see the forest from the trees more than you can in your own project or business or money endeavor that is so key.

Jessica Zweig: And then another thing that I have done that has really allowed me to get out of debt and save money and feel really, really peaceful and abundant and my husband has helped me with this is we've set up an account. I call it my island account and it's a bank account we can only put money in. And if I needed to take money out I'd have to drive all the way across town in the worst hours, whatever. It's my island account. I can only send money to it, it can only grow. And I'm stacking my cheddar as my accountant once told me and my husband helps me ensure that money is being sent to that account every single month and that we're totally able to send that level of money over to that account and that's really grown our savings. My husband and I sleep well at night because of it.

Jessica Zweig: And so those are the key hacks that having my husband and having that account has changed honestly my financial wellbeing more than my finances but more of my financial wellbeing, which I think is key to vibrating at that level of abundance and attracting more.

Bobbi Rebell: That's such great advice. There's also a lot more great advice and I'm picking up your book now even though I know we're on audio and your book, okay I'm going to read the title Be, with a period, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. And I love the yellow cover. Yellow became one of your themes in the book so it transcends so much about you and your sunny personality. Tell us briefly about the book.

Jessica Zweig: So the book is a personal branding book. It's going to walk you through my trademark methodology of how to build your platform, the platform of you. Whether you work for yourself, or you work for someone else, or you want to one day work for yourself, having an understanding of what makes you you is an invaluable asset that you can take with you no matter what your job title is. That's number one. It's going to teach you tactically step-by-step how to do that from messaging, to strategy, to content, to social media, to PR.

Jessica Zweig: However, it is a personal empowerment book in fact disguised as a business book. Because I think at the core most people feel afraid to do that and to put themselves out there. And I say that my book is the permission slip and the reminder that you are worthy to be seen and to shine and to have everything you ever want. And it's my own journey in fact as well and my uncovering that truth for myself. And so, I'm right along with you throughout the whole book and you're going to take away so much tactical knowledge but at the end of the day I hope it inspires people to stop playing small and stop apologizing for their authentic amazingness. And that's what my book Be is about.

Bobbi Rebell: One of the recommendations in the book is to keep your social media and all of your public identifying names, et cetera, very consistent. So let's end with you telling us where people can find you on all of the social media because I know you keep it easy.

Jessica Zweig: I walk the talk as I say I drink my own Kool-Aid. So yes I am at Jessica Zweig on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, jessicazweig.com. You can also go to simplybeagency.com which is my company's website and find me. I'm really, really, really easy to find. I'm out there. So please come and say hi.

Bobbi Rebell: Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me. This was amazing.

Bobbi Rebell: Here we go my friends Financial Grownup tip number one, some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships like Jessica, and like Jessica they use the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. This past week the dating app Bumble went public and its founder Whitney Wolfe-Herd started Bumble in 2014 after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder where she was a co-founder after a breakup with another co-founder. And she's talked about it a lot, it was a toxic relationship for sure. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and worth over a billion dollars. What a great story.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial Grownup tip number two, so many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic in part because it feels like no one's watching. I mean, after all we can and do literally work in our pajamas, certainly the off-camera part. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time, get an accountability partner like Jessica. Get someone who will be committed to you and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren't doing that well break up fast and find another accountability partner who's a better fit. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy but this more quiet time will come to an end and the opportunity to get your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste.

Bobbi Rebell: One way to get motivated, get out of those PJ's. Realistically, I know we aren't getting dressed up but have some fun with your pandemic wardrobe. That's what I know I needed when I came up with a concept for Grownup Gear it is all about celebrating wherever we are in our journey to being grown ups which never really ends let's be honest. Check out the designs on my website, bobbirebell.com. Click on shop or just go directly to grownupgear.com. And please be in touch. DM me what you want more of on this podcast. I love your feedback. I put discount codes for Grownup Gear on my Instagram, which by the way is Bobbi Rebell one. And we did just start a Grownup Gear Instagram. We don't have a lot of followers so please come check it out. That's at @GrownupGear on Instagram.

Bobbi Rebell: So big thanks to Jessica Zweig, author of Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing You Self-Worth and Your Net Worth By Simply Being Yourself. Everyone check out the book and thanks again to Jessica for helping us all be financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Special guest co-host millennial personal finance author, speaker and entrepreneur Stefanie O’Connell joins Bobbi to talk smart financial moves to make before the New Year. Bobbi and Stefanie also take a listener question on how to lower the interest rate on a credit card before a big purchase. 

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. 

In Stefanie’s story you will learn:

-The challenges of her seven years as a professional actress

-How the recession left her unemployed half way around the world

-The harsh financial realities of the entertainment business

-The creative ways Stefanie handled her finances, including roommates, while she traveled as an actress

-Her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want

-Why she pivoted to become a personal finance expert

-The tools she uses to manager her own money

-How to build a lifestyle you love while still following your passion

-The two big fairytales she says millennials need to get over

-Her take on how the financial challenges millennials face are different from previous generations

In Stefanie’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to own your income potential

-Ways to build your skill sets and find new market opportunities

-How to maximize income growth

-How to transition your passion skill set into one that is also profitable

 

In Stefanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her online shopping strategy

-How she uses online cash back portals like ebates

-The savings you can get from browser extensions like Honey that automatically search for coupons and promo codes

-Ways to stack your savings using cash back credit cards

In my take you will learn:

-Why I believe passions should usually not be connected to income

-The benefits of taking the pressure off earning money from your passion

-The danger of having unrealistic expectations from side hustles

-Strategies to own your future by going beyond your credentials like academic accomplishments

 

Episode links:

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Ebates

Honey

 

You can find Stefanie at:

Stefanie O’Connell.com

Get Stefanie’s free Cash Confidence challenge  

Sign up for Stefanie’s All In DIY class!

Stefanie’s facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/661192974055824/

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Instagram @stefanieoconnell

Twitter @stefanieoconnell

Facebook: Stefanie OConnell

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn about Stefanie's challenges of her seven years as a professional actress, her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want, and how to maximize income growth. #Income #LifeLessons #Author

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Transcription

Stefanie OC:
The reality hit me that this pursuit of my "passion" that everyone says, that isn't always the case because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be Financial Grown Up. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. How many of you have been told, "Follow your dreams. The money will come. Just trust in yourself?" In most cases, you were lied to. Former struggling actress turned millennial finance expert Stefanie O'Connell is here to set you straight. She is also the author of The Broke and The Beautiful book, and she also has a thriving community over at her website, stefanieoconnell.com. I love her story because it will put you on a path to prosperity and, hopefully, more happiness doing what you really are passionate about when you're not earning money. Here is Stefanie O'Connell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie O'Connell, author of The Broke and Beautiful Life and millennial money expert, you're a financial grown up and welcome to the program.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to congratulate you on your new venture, All In. Tell us about it.

Stefanie OC:
Oh, it is a course specifically designed for millennial women who want to feel as confident with their money, as they do in the rest of their lives. I know too many women who are really successful in their careers, really successful in their personal relationships, and all these different facets of their lifestyle, but when it comes to their money, they feel really out of control, so I built this 10-module step-by-step blueprint to help those ambitious women match their cash competence with their lifestyle ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect, and we will put a link to where you can find that more in the show notes. I want to get right to your story because it's so relatable and it's something that is so relevant to young people figuring out where they want to put their energy and where they want to earn their money. Tell us your money story, Ms. Stefanie.

Stefanie OC:
Okay. I'm going to try to keep it concise here. It's been a bit of a journey. But, essentially, it started in college when I decided I was going to pursue acting professionally. Now, I did get a degree in psychology as well as like backup plan, my responsible, quote unquote backup plan, but the plan was to be a professional actress and, believe it or not, I was. I actually was for seven years a professional actress, but it was extremely difficult, primarily because I worked in theater, not film, so the paydays are not the same.

Stefanie OC:
I also graduated in 2008, which was the year of the recession. So even though I got a great job right out of school on like a dream tour of Asia, understudying one of my professional musical theater idols, the producers flew out about halfway through the tour, and there were, like, "Oh, you know, there was a global recession. We're going to send you all home." [inaudible 00:03:22]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like that?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah just like that, so my bubble just got-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you basically got laid off in the middle of the world, in the middle of nowhere.

Stefanie OC:
As a actress, which is the most ... it's the first thing to go, right? Entertainment budget, especially for something like live theater that's really expensive is the first thing people cut out. So the industry was really in bad shape and the first job offer I got after was to play three leading roles in three musicals for $225 a week. And I was like, "Okay, that is not sustainable. Yeah. This is my profession it is how I support myself." So I had to turn it down. And for the next five or six years after that I kept coming up against this reality of okay, I'm doing what I love, but it's not paying the bills. It's not sustainable, it's not consistent, when I do get work it's a huge win if I'm making $500 a week, I live in New York city. That is not enough money to sustain even a very basic lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, how were you living? Did you have roommates? What was going on there?

Stefanie OC:
Oh yeah. So I've always had roommates. I've never not had roommates, so I'm 31 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Including now.

Stefanie OC:
Including now. I live my boyfriend now, so it's a little different.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good kind of roommate.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah it's a better kind of roommate situation. And then I also sublet my apartment a lot. So one of the things about being an actor is I was on the road a lot, so I was able to sublet my apartment so I didn't have the expense of rent which was a savior for me. And so even if I wasn't making a ton of money, maybe two, three hundred dollars a week, if I didn't have a $1500 a month cost of rent that made it a lot more sustainable to pursue it. That said, I would come home at the end of my contracts and still need to pay rent.

Stefanie OC:
So it just didn't work. The numbers didn't add up. And so what happened for me was there was just this huge sense of frustration and the reality hit me that this pursuit of my passion, quote unquote, that everyone says if you do that everything will work itself out, just that isn't always the case when it comes to your money. Because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living. There are other goals you have, there are the trips you want to take, there are the weddings you want to have, there are the children and family you want to start, there's the house you want to buy. And that costs money. And I had this realization that if I continued doing what I was doing I was never going to create enough capital through acting, through this pursuit of my passion to do all these things that I cared about in the rest of my life.

Stefanie OC:
And so I really started digging into personal finance because I wanted to understand, okay, how do I take the little money I have and maximize it and then step two, how do I bring more in? So that I have more to maximize and that really set me on this journey of personal transformation to owning my own cash confidence, as I like to call it, through tracking my spending, through earning more, through learning to invest, through saving and tracking that all on my blog at stefanieoconnell.com and then finding a community of other people in similar situations, millennials working through the recession who were really taught do what they love and are facing this reality of, well what if that doesn't pay the bills? And how do I still build a lifestyle I love, even if it's not necessarily the way I thought it was going to look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you and lot of millennials were sold this fairytale that if you follow your passion the money will come?

Stefanie OC:
Absolutely. I think there are two big fairytales. That one and then the second one is if you get a college degree you're set for life. Because I think you know, for my parents for example, they graduated college, they did get their MBAs, but from there it was smooth sailing right from graduation to retirement. There was great salaries, there were income increases, there was healthcare, there was retirement benefits. I've never had any of those things. I've never had employer sponsored health care, I've never had a 401K plan. So it's so much more, even if you're not necessarily pursuing your passion, even if you're just trying to make a living, for so many young people today there isn't that inbuilt infrastructure that takes your hand and paves the way for you from graduation to retirement.

Stefanie OC:
So much of the onus now is on the individual, and that's why I really started writing about this stuff, because I found that so much of the personal space was like, "Contribute to your 401K." And meanwhile, I'm surrounded by people who've never even had the opportunity to have access to a 401K. So that's why I write about what I write about.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right so you are 31 years old now. What is the lesson from that journey, for our listeners?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah, so for me the biggest lesson is that you are the primary driver of your own income potential. I think we have this idea that our degree or our experience or our skills or our lack of any of those things is what dictates what opportunities are available to us, but the reality is it's us. It's our willingness to continue putting ourselves out there, building our skillsets, finding new market opportunities and really putting ourselves in the drivers seat of our own earning potential that really leads to maximal income growth. And I think that it's so important because we too often make excuses for ourselves for why a six figure salary is not available to us or why a one million dollar net worth is not available to us.

Stefanie OC:
And we have to [inaudible 00:09:04] ownership of those things, before we can start making progress to actually achieving them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it may not be in the glam career that you envision, that may be a side thing.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah. And the other thing is I think there's this all or nothing mentality that's really destructive. I'm not professionally acting anymore, but I love what I do. And one of the big things I do is I give talks, I go on camera a lot, I do a lot of media appearances and I feel like I get to use that skillset from acting that I so enjoyed [inaudible 00:09:36] performance all the time, but now I get paid ten, 20, 30 times what I used to make. But the fact is I would have never found this outlet if I had never pivoted temporarily to something a little less glamorous like freelance writing and blogging about money. Right?

Stefanie OC:
So we have to remember that it's not like you're abandoning this thing forever, it's just about trying a new approach so that you can have a lifestyle you love and not just a career you love.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something specific and actionable that everyone can do right now.

Stefanie OC:
Okay, so this one is a little bit more simple, a really quick win that you [crosstalk 00:10:15]-

Bobbi Rebell:
We love simple.

Stefanie OC:
Can start with right now.

Stefanie OC:
There's a lot of shopping online, I personally do most of my shopping online because anytime I walk into a retail environment it's a 20 minute wait, it drives me crazy. So one of the ways I save, I have different ways of doing my shopping. So I will sometimes go through an online cash back portal, like an Ebates, where if you go through their portal first and then select the retailer you can get one or two or three or four percent cashback on all of your purchases. And then also downloading a browser extension like Honey that automatically searches for coupons and promo codes for you. And applies them to your order without you even having to go open up 20 tabs and search for promo codes.

Stefanie OC:
And then you can stack your savings even further by using a cash back credit card. So you know, get one percent or [inaudible 00:11:10] percent cash back on all purchases on your credit card, plus the promo code, plus the cash back from shopping through something like Ebates, you're really stacking your savings for immediate wins on all your purchases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice, Stefanie O'Connell, millennial money expert, thank you so much.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends, here is my take on what Stefanie had to say. Financial grown up tip number one, detach your passion from your income. We all spend a lot of time at our paying jobs and businesses so obviously you don't want to pick something that you don't like and you can't stand. You want to be happy, you're putting a lot of time in there, but that may not be your passion. Focus on earning the income you need to be happy in life and maybe pursue that passion on the side. It could be a side hustle, it could just be a hobby. Take the pressure off trying to earn a living at your passion. You may actually find yourself enjoying it more without the pressure to create income from that passion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, don't sit on your laurels just because you got a college degree. It matters a lot, but for the most part after your first job it's going to come down to you and how hard and how smart you work. As Stefanie said so well, you have to have ownership of your own future. Don't just show up at your job, really show up. Be present, try hard, do extra things that are beyond the exact job duties. Impress your boss, learn new skills. A degree is only one piece of the puzzle, you have to fill in the rest by earning it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right thank you all for your support of the podcast, I love hearing your feedback and I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. Please also follow me on social media. I'm @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and of course, go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Stefanie O'Connell's story and her advice. I think she's terrific. Check out her website, as I said, stefanieoconnell.com, and I hope we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Rebecca Jarvis, ABC News Chief Business, Technology and Economics Correspondent, and Host and Managing editor of the “No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis” podcast learned her financial lessons early.

But the truth about the value of that education really came to light when she learned what was going on with a dear friend.  

You will learn why you want Rebecca, and friends like her, on your team. 

 

Rebecca's money story:

• The  money lessons from her journalist mom that set her on the right path

• How Rebecca has helped her friends who have run into money trouble

• The ways that poor money decisions can hurt your opportunities, including jobs

• How banks sometimes lure young people into borrowing more money than they can afford

 

Rebecca’s lesson: 

• specific tools to figure out wants vs. needs. 

• advice on how to maintain a budget

• her favorite app for managing money

Rebecca’s money tip:

• How to make sure your education pays off

• What kind of classes to take post-college

• To be featured as a women entrepreneur of the week email Rebecca Jarvis nolimitswithrjpodcast@gmail.com

Links to people and things we talked about in this episode

• No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis podcast

• Robin Roberts

• Gabby Bernstein

• Sheila Nevins

• Randi Zuckerberg

• Mint

• CFP Board

• The Federal Reserve

Rebecca Jarvis learned her financial lessons early. The truth about the value of that education really came to light when she learned what was going on with a dear friend. Listen to this Financial Grownup episode to learn Rebecca's advice on how to maintain a budget and her favorite app for managing money. #MoneyManagement #Budget

Transcription

Rebecca Jarvis:
He even had some issues along the way when he was applying to jobs. If they think of you as somebody who's not a credit worthy individual, they can say, "Hmm is this person really responsible."

Bobbie Rabell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbie Rabell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbie Rabell:
Hey friends, welcome to another edition of Financial Grownup. I do want to first take a moment to thank those of you who are already supporting the show through subscribing, and of course through rating and reviewing it. Those early reviews have been so precious to me. They are truly appreciated, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. If you haven't rated or reviewed the show and you like it, or you just want to give me some feedback, please do so. It means the world to me.

Bobbie Rabell:
All right, this guest is amazing and inspiring. She was spared some of the most damaging early in life mistakes that so many of us make thanks in large part to her mom's early lessons about using credit cards and the dangers of debt. But, here's where it gets really good guys. In addition to learning early on how to be financially responsible herself, what I love about speaking with her and what really comes through in this interview is that she is an empathetic and truly supportive friend. Many of her friends, for whatever reason, didn't have the ideal financial educations or experiences, but she is there for them. She is not judgmental. She is helpful. Rebecca Jarvis is the Chief Business Technology and Economics Correspondent at ABC News. She is also host of one of my personal favorite podcasts, No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis, which you should definitely check out. In the meantime, here is my interview with Rebecca Jarvis.

Bobbie Rabell:
Rebecca Jarvis, you are such a financial grownup and I'm so excited to have you on the program. Welcome.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you so much Bobbie. I'm so excited to chat with you. I love your books. I love you. You set a great example for so many people.

Bobbie Rabell:
Thank you.

Rebecca Jarvis:
So thank you for what you're doing.

Bobbie Rabell:
Well, speaking of great examples, I am such a fan of the No Limits podcast, which is no moving into live events, which is awesome. I mean I could literally spend my entire podcast rattling off all of my favorite episodes. Of course, I love the live show you just did, which featured Robin Roberts, who holds a special place in my heart because she survived a horrible disease that my mother did not survive. Every time I look at Robin I get emotional and happy for her. I love the Sheila Nevins episode, which is dishy. I'm basically telling people to go through your archives. Of course, my friend Randy Zuckerberg, who is amazing. Tell me more about what's going on for 2018 with No Limits.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you. I really appreciate that. We are starting to do more live podcasts. We did this most recent one with Robin Roberts. Also, Gabby Bernstein, which a number of people probably know from the space. She had an awakening, a moment in her life where she hit rock bottom, and she figured out gratitude to come back and be a stronger person. But what we're looking at now is a year ahead where we will be doing some live events. We'll continue to talk to game changing women. That's my mission statement is to talk to women who have broken down walls, who have figured out how to play the game, set the rules, and looking at their paths, the trade offs along the way, the choices that they've made along the way, what success really means to them and how they're figuring out balancing all of it. It's really honest, authentic conversations. My favorite thing Bobbie is when a guest will say, "I've never told this to anyone before." I know we're in the right spot if that's the conversation that we're having.

Rebecca Jarvis:
We'll continue to do that. We also will continue to feature and highlight women from our community who are No Limits entrepreneurs of the week. Every single week we feature a listener who is building an empire of her own, and how she's doing it. She gets featured on her Instagram account, on my Instagram account. She gets featured on the podcast and we share a little bit about her story. Anybody who wants to apply for that can always email me at nolimitswithrjpodcast@gmail.com. Feel free to send me ideas and submissions as well. I do read all of the emails there.

Bobbie Rabell:
Okay, I can't wait to see who is going to be next on No Limits, but I'm also looking forward to your money story. It's a good one, do tell.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Okay. I would say that for me my money story, it started early. My mom is a financial journalist. She's a columnist at Reuters. When I was a kid, she was a columnist at the Minnesota newspaper where I grew up. She sat me down before college. The conversation that we had prior to me leaving for college was all about credit cards. It wasn't your typical going off to college conversation, but she talked me through the idea that when you go to college, and the rules were a little bit different back then, you could be a bank and advertise anywhere on campus for people to sign up for credit cards. She said they're going to be everywhere. They're going to be hounding you. They're going to tell you it's great, it's the best thing in the world. Don't do it. You need-

Bobbie Rabell:
By the way, people should know, no longer allowed, but they were bribing you too probably.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Exactly. Exactly. That's the latest story that just came out that a lot of these banks are now even working with the colleges and giving kickbacks to the colleges. Anyway, my mom sat me down, she had this conversation with me and basically said, "Becky, whatever you do, do not sign up for these credit card offers that sound too good to be true. You don't need to do that. Instead, save your money and think about every penny that you spend is money that's coming out of your savings account. Don't spend money that you don't have." That really made a huge impact on me. I have to say because I now in my life have two credit cards. From that point forward, I was just much more skeptical. I think, I look around at a number of my friends who didn't necessarily have those conversations ... I actually had a really good friend in college who he ran up $10,000 in credit card debt not fully recognizing at the time that he would eventually have to pay that back.

Bobbie Rabell:
Oh no.

Rebecca Jarvis:
And he's a smart guy.

Bobbie Rabell:
And it's not just pay it back. It's pay it back and paying interest.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Exactly, which the interest on credit cards is always going to be the highest interest that you're going to get. It's way higher than the amount of interest that you pay on a mortgage. Way higher than the interest that you'd pay on a student loan. Credit card debt is some of the worst debt that you can take on. Anyway, this friend of mine, his credit score was ruined so he couldn't go out and get a mortgage or a car loan post-college. He also ended up not being able to afford paying off the loans and ultimately his family had to step in and help in. He even had some issues along the way when he was applying to jobs. If they think of you as somebody who's not a credit worthy individual, they can say, "Hmm, is this person really responsible?" He was. He was totally responsible. But anyway, that was a big lesson for me along the way just thinking about debt and my mom sitting me down. I'm so thankful that she did, talking to me about it early on.

Bobbie Rabell:
Besides obviously not getting into credit card debt in college, what is your lesson for our listeners? What is the takeaway?

Rebecca Jarvis:
I think that one of the biggest takeaways is recognizing that no matter how much money you have, or feel that you don't have, budgeting and thinking through your needs versus wants is a really valuable thing. There's research out there that shows that almost every person, whether they have $10 in their pocket or $100,000 in their pocket, is very likely spending more on wants than they're truly aware of. I cover so many stories about people who have gotten out of debt. One of the biggest things that the people who have gotten out of debt have done is they figured out, they've gone through line by line, their spending for the last three months.

Rebecca Jarvis:
They've said where am I spending on my needs versus where am I spending on my wants. One of the greatest things that you can do for yourself is think about what those wants are in the short term, and if you can cut back on those wants, you will make sure that you have the future cushion and money to spend on your needs and to get out of that debt. I think it's a really important thing to budget and to look at needs versus wants.

Bobbie Rabell:
Do you have any specific recommendations for budgeting? Do you budget?

Rebecca Jarvis:
I've done the budget. You literally sit down with your credit card statements and you go through line by line. You can use a ruler to go through line by line. You circle every single time you see something on that credit card statement that is a want verus a need, you circle it. It's a reminder to yourself that those are not the things, especially if you're already in debt, which so many people are. Credit card debt just passed $1 trillion. It's at the highest level, a record level. Going through those credit card statements, circling the wants. You don't have to go out and get an app. You don't have to go out and get some fancy technology to do this. It is really right in front of you right now. Most people have bank accounts and credit cards that are already on the internet, that you can access on the internet.

Rebecca Jarvis:
I really like Mint. I think Mint is a good app where my husband and I have all of our, every single loan, every single piece of money, every single paycheck, feeds into our Mint account so we have a full picture of how much we have, or need to spend towards various areas. I do think that that's a good way, but I don't want people to feel complicated. We don't have to over complicate it. It's as easy as taking a look at that whatever it is, whether it's your checking account, or it's your credit card, and saying where am I spending my money and where am I wasting my money.

Bobbie Rabell:
Right, the numbers tell you the story.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Yes, completely.

Bobbie Rabell:
Before I let you go, I do want you to give us a money tip. Something you or maybe your husband uses. Something that our listeners can put to work right now.

Rebecca Jarvis:
One tip that doesn't relate to debt or any of the things we've already talked about that I really like is if you are spending money, think about how that money can help improve you in some way, education, additional learning, whether it's useful to your community. Those are the areas where that dollar, whatever amount of money that you're putting out there, will come back to you ten X, will come back to you so much, with so much more value than just the single penny or dollar that you've spent. Think about those places, when you are spending, think about those places where it goes beyond that sugar rush of oh I just got this new thing. Think about those areas where if you spend your money on something to make yourself better or stronger, then you will gain so much more from that dollar than if you just spend it on whatever thing is sitting in front of you.

Bobbie Rabell:
Can you give us a personal example?

Rebecca Jarvis:
Well for me, I've spent my money on education. I mean that's probably the biggest thing I've ever spent my personal money on is going to college, taking ... I'm not good. I'm not there yet, but taking Spanish classes. I haven't done this yet this year, but I was looking at different art classes because I really love art and I really would love to be able to create art better. Even things like a gym class, for example, if you feel healthier, and it's something that you feel like you can regularly commit to. I have a group of girlfriends that I work out with now, and I will spend money on those workouts with that group of girls because it has genuinely made my life exponentially better.

Bobbie Rabell:
It's all about experience versus just having more stuff. Thank you so much Rebecca.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you.

Bobbie Rabell:
This was wonderful. Rebecca Jarvis, No Limits. I can't wait to hear all of your episodes for 2018 and beyond. Thank you so much.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you. Have a great day Bobbie.

Bobbie Rabell:
Wow, Rebecca had a lot of great info and advice. Here is my take. I want to pick up on Rebecca's money tip and the importance of investing in yourself through education. I have always done this, and I really encourage everyone to do it as well. Most recently, some of you know this, I became a certified financial planner. It was a huge investment, both in time and money, but I felt strongly that if I was going to be here giving advice I need to know my stuff. Can I be stumped? Well, definitely. You guys will definitely be able to stump me, and I'm still figuring out the new tax law, but after I left Reuters last spring, I did take a break and I got my CFP.

Bobbie Rabell:
Over the years I've also gone back to school when things just didn't make sense, or I wanted to know more. For example, early on at my first job at CNBC I realized I honestly, truly did not understand how the fed worked. It was something that I would go on to write about quite a bit in my career, so I took a class. I kid you not, I literally took a class on how the fed worked, how the federal reserve worked. There is a class on that. It doesn't get nerdier. I even took a class on technical analysis because it was just so strange and I didn't understand it. Still don't get it 100%, but the point is I'm always learning.

Bobbie Rabell:
So how do you make it work, both from a money perspective and a time one? Financial grownup tip number one, get someone else to pay for it. If you work for a large company, odds are they have a program to reimburse tuition. Some may require good grades. All the better. Incentives are good. If they don't have a program, ask your boss if the company can pay for a course. Explain how improving your knowledge will ultimately benefit the company. For example, if you want to learn a language like Spanish or Mandarin, you could help the company break into markets where that language dominates, or maybe open up an office in another country. Find a way to make your case and get them to pay for it. If not, there are nonprofits that support continuing education, as well as government programs. Do some homework, find the money.

Bobbie Rabell:
Financial grownup tip number two, and this one is harder. Find the time. We are all so busy. Finding time for something that seems like an extra may seem like a non-starter. I had this problem when I decided I was going to write my book. I had a very demanding job, and was barely seeing my family as it was. I would get home literally just in time to tuck my son into bed before I ate a quick dinner and crashed for the night exhausted. I mean I couldn't even get to the mail pile. But then, I thought about it. I decided I was going to write this book and I was going to find the time. But where?

Bobbie Rabell:
Well, I found the earliest time I could drop my son off at his school, and even if I had a ton of work and a huge busy day ahead of me, I did not go into the office early. I created a window of time between school drop off and my job, my primary job, and stuck to it as a protected time. No plans with friends. No grabbing coffee with the other moms. No doctors appointments. No phone calls. Just the book. And it worked. Find the a time slot that you can carve out and then protect it like a beast. It works.

Bobbie Rabell:
All right, that wraps up this episode of Financial Grownup. Thank you again for all of your support. If you like the show, or just want to give me some feedback, please rate and review it in iTunes, and of course share it with your friends. I truly appreciate all of your support.

Bobbie Rabell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is a BRK Media production.

Even the best money experts can make money mistakes. For nine-time New York Times best-selling author David Bach, it happened in college.

It is not that surprising that he got buried in credit card debt. That happens to a lot of students who get tempted by the easy credit available. But after paying off his debt, David went back and did it again! 

Things get really interesting when he goes to his parents to ask for help.

In this episode you will hear

David Bach’s Financial Grownup money story including:

• How David Bach got into credit card debt- twice- before even starting his independent adult life

• The tactic the credit card companies used that led to even more debt

• How David’s parents reacted when he came clean about his debt

• The common mistakes college students make when it comes to credit cards

• How that debacle actually led to his beginnings as an entrepreneur as a sophomore in college. 

• What David’s first business was and how it helped him get out of debt

• How Bach learned to automate his savings and investing

• How he has used those early in life lessons to build his own wealth, and teach others as well

David’s Financial Grownup lesson including:

• How damaging credit card can be

• Ways to avoid credit card debt

• Why he has not carried credit card debt since age 21

• How he has avoided borrowing for 3 decades

David’s personal finance tip:

• Why automatic payments are great for investing, but not always for bill paying

• The first thing david cut from his budget in 2018.

• How to decide what to cut from your automatic payments

 

In my take you’ll hear my controversial advice on credit card debt including when to use:

• The avalanche method

• The snowball method

• How and when to use your home equity as a resource

• How and when you should consider opening up a zero interest credit card

 

Links to things mentioned in this episode:

David Bach

Smart Couples Finish Rich

AE Wealth Management

Even the best money experts can make money mistakes. For nine-time New York Times best-selling author David Bach, it happened in college. It is not that surprising that he got buried in credit card debt. Listen to the Financial Grownup podcast on ways to avoid credit card debt. #CreditCardDebt #FinancialGrownup #Money #Author