Posts tagged Money
Answering the question I keep being asked by young adults and parents
Answering the question I keep being asked by young adults and parents
 

In this week’s episode Bobbi answers the question she is getting asked the most after the release of her new book “Launching Financial Grownups”


 
 

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Full Transcript:

Hi grownups!

I hope everyone is enjoying the spring and spending lots of time with their friends and family- hopefully staying healthy and having time with our loved ones in person. 

I’ve been enjoying getting out as well- and getting to share my new book: Launching Financial Grownups. Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids be Everyday Money Smart. In fact when this episode is released I will be in Los Angeles both for some speaking engagements and also getting to spend time with friends I have not seen since the before times. I’m so excited to get back out there in person. 

It’s been about a month since Launching Financial Grownups was released and it’s been so interesting seeing what people react to- a lot of people have related to my specific tips about teaching the next generation about money and also enjoyed the not always conventional  advice from the experts I was able to interview for the book including Tori Dunlap from her first 100k and financial therapist Dr. Brad Klontz. 

But there is one question that I keep getting when people learn about the book. And I have been surprised because I thought it was something people were more aware of - it wasn’t something I came up with myself and it wasn’t something that I thought would surprise anyone or really be that interesting. In fact it was kind of a last minute decision to expand the section in the book that talks about it. 

The question everyone has been asking is why do parents these days have such a harder time than their parents did- is there something different going on or are we just bad at this parenting thing even though we seem to be trying so much harder?

The last part of that question is the one that really gets everyone frustrated- should be we BETTER at parenting since we are paying so much more attention to it. I mean when we were coming of age, our parents didn’t pay nearly as much attention to us. They certainly didn’t spend as much money on us- and once we were out of school whether it was high school or college they just kind of let us figure it out. 

We’re working so hard to set our kids up for success. Many of us prioritize education and frankly almost any kid related expense over almost anything that seems indulgent or even wanted for us. And yet, their childhood seems to be endless. 

It’s even become a thing on social media. So many parents of early 20 something joke about the fact that their almost adult kids just don’t seem to leave the nest- financially. And the next generation is not shy about embracing their endless adolescence- joking that they are “adulting” as if doing something adult like in their 20’s is a game and they aren’t actually adults. 

But this didn’t just happen.

Parents are financially tied to their kids for longer for some very specific reasons. Here are some of them. 

First: The Affordable Care Act- aka Obamacare allows our offspring to be on our health insurance until age 26. So that often creates a financial tie in the family until age 26- boom- how do you cut off your kid when you are paying their health insurance. That discussion never happened when anyone who is a parent of a 20 something was growing up . 

Ok you’re saying- just limit it at that. But there are other things parents often pay for that also literally did not exist when we were growing up. Let’s talk about the cell phone bill. If it costs $100 for your kid to have their own bill- and your bill doesn’t go up much- maybe $25 to keep them on- you probably are going to do the math and keep them on there at least until they are .. say 26.. when that health insurance tie happens. But time slides- let’s just way a recent bit political investigation turned up a high ranking former presidential aide that was still on his parents phone bill. Google it. 

And who among us is going to take their kid off their Netflix and other streaming services if it literally costs nothing to keep them on. 

All of this is not bad- but it is something that keeps their finances tied to ours, and better for it. 

We’re closer to our kids and frankly tend to be more involved in their lives thanks to technology. When we were dropped off at college we could use a payphone to call home.. at some point. If we had a question about a life skill- we tended to ask around or figure it out. Now the answer is just a text away. Also a quick text away- money. As in, they can get money to us immediately. No waiting for a check in the mail. Which is a good thing because most young people haven’t even really dealt with physical checks. 

The point being- we’re there so solve their problems- instantly - and there’s a lot of good with that- but it also undermines their ability to develop their own solutions- financial or otherwise. 

And they need us more than ever because corporate America - for all it’s talk of upgrading the workplace - is also relying more on contract workers and many of our kids spend their first years in the gig economy- so they don’t have that structure that helped many of us feel like adults. They don’t have income reliability so how can they manage to have their own home- rented or owned. Ditto that for really being able to save up to live somewhere NOT their parents home. 

Which goes a long way to explain why so many of this generation of emerging adults live at home- which used to have a stigma. But will trillions in student debt and minimal wage gains relative to inflation- who can blame them. 

It’s a lot falling on our young adults- and in turn on us. 

So I’m glad we are all gaining a new appreciation of the challenges facing our young adult kids- and so we can understand how we can help them embrace being adults and move past the gamification of adulting. 

If this makes sense to you- I know you will really get a lot out of Launching Financial Grownups and I hope you will check it out. 

In the meantime I’m also giving some tips and having a little fun at my own expense over on Tik Tok- I keep it simple - the handle is just my name.. as it is on all social media except instagram which is bobbirebell1 - DM me or leave a comment on any of the social platforms with your ideas on how to tackle these challenges- whether you are a young adult or a parent- or if you just care about a young adult in your life. 

Also a reminder- if you are celebrating a big milestone this spring- graduation, mothers day, fathers day, an engagement or a big birthday- great gifts are available at grownupgear.com

Thanks so much as always for joining me as we all learn to be financial grownups. 

 
Advice, Authors, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanQuestions Answered, Young Adults, Parents, Parenting, Parenthood, Money, Money Advice
3 simple money mistakes for grownups to avoid with Ash “Cash" Exantus
3 simple money mistakes for grownups to avoid with Ash “Cash" Exantus
 

As much as we try to do right, we all fall into some common money mistakes. Ash Exantus joins us with 3 to avoid, and a special challenge for ambitious grownups.

 

3 money mistakes to avoid

  • Mistake 1: working hard for money- instead of letting money work for you

  • Mistake 2: having the wrong number of bank accounts

  • Mistake 3: saving money - you should actually invest first

 
 
 

Follow Name!

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really loved doing it, and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ash Cash:
Instead of focusing on active income, meaning, working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things.

Ash Cash:
Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard. But together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grown-up friends, get ready to smile and be really excited about your money and the potential to have more of it. No get-rich-quick ideas here. You know I would not take you guys there. But today's guest Ash Cash Exantus is going to help us all see the money mistakes that we make and also provide some easy solutions that can work for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Exantus, AKA Ash Cash, is often called the Hiphop Financial Motivator because he uses a culturally-responsive approach to teach financial literacy. He's also a speaker and a bestselling author of many, many books. We're going to talk about that. Lots of books, lots of money coming from books for him. He is also very much a financial grownup you will learn a lot from. Here is Ash Cash Exantus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Cash Exantus, you're a financial grownup. I'm so happy I finally got you on the program. Welcome.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We were joking before I started recording. I have been trying to get you on, literally, for years since we met at Shannon McLay's Financial Gym, which is now virtual, so hey, Shannon. So glad you're here. What have you been up to the last few years? You have, oh, I don't know, 11 books going on?

Ash Cash:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, just writing books and making sure people get their minds and their money right so they could live in abundance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is apropos. Your company is called Mind Right Money Management. Tell us quickly about that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think a lot of times people always think about the practical things as it relates to managing money, but they have to focus on a mindset first.

Ash Cash:
So when I started doing this work, I said, no, I can't. Everybody wants to lead with practicality, but the practicality is really the mindset. So mindset or Mind Right Money Management is really a company that teaches how to change your mind in order to manage your money the right way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so important, and one of the important mindsets, it's also to understand that as grown-ups, we make mistakes. It happens all the time, and it's part of the learning process, and that it's a really important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought with you three mistakes that we grown-ups need to be aware of so that we don't make them. We probably are making a lot of them already. I mean, I know mistake number two is something I may be doing. I'm excited to hear what you have to say about it so let's dive right in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Mistake number one is working hard for money, instead of letting money work for you. Tell us more about that and what we need to be aware of.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Number one, society, school, everything teaches us that we have to go to work, work hard. Then once we make some money, we buy things with the money, and then we continue that cycle of working hard, working hard, we put a little bit away.

Ash Cash:
But the truth of the matter is that if we want to create financial freedom, we want to build wealth, we have to change that relationship with money. Instead of focusing on active income, meaning working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things. Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give me a practical, real-world example of that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Young people are taught to buy a home first to live in, but you can house hack. So imagine a young 20-something-year-old or any age, to be a hundred percent honest, if they're saving to buy to become a homeowner, instead of buying a home to actually live in, you buy a home, a multi-family home and you rent it out. So now, immediately, you have achieved mortgage freedom because you live in one apartment, you rent out the other apartment, and then what you're renting that other apartment for pays for your mortgage and so now that rent is covered.

Ash Cash:
I wrote 11 books. Books are a great example. You write it one time, and so it took me active work for me to physically write these books. But after the books are done, you sell them over and over and over again. My first book, I wrote that in 2009, I still get checks to this day from something I did over 12 years ago.

Ash Cash:
So those are two high level and low level, if you will, examples of how I took active work to make money, but then now that asset is paying me over and over and over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Mistake number two, this is the one that has me sort of second-guessing myself. Mistake number two is having the wrong number of bank accounts. I've never given it that much thought. Tell us more about how many bank accounts should we have.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Everyone should have four bank accounts. Most people have the two. Mainly, people have one, they have the checking account. Some people have a checking and a savings account, but the savings account never accumulates anything because once they start to save, they get the buy one, get one from Macy's and then they charge so much through the checking account.

Ash Cash:
Everyone should have four accounts. You should have a spending account, and so that's the money that you allocate to spend money, and so whatever your bills, once you start allocating things, you want to have a bill account.

Ash Cash:
Let me back up a little bit. You should have a bill account first, and your bill account is where the money is going to go to pay your bill. So you should have a debit card attached to that bill account, everything should be automated, paid online.

Ash Cash:
You should have a spending account. You should have money put aside whatever the percentage is to spend, and that's in a checking account.

Ash Cash:
You should have a savings account, and that savings account is going to be for when you separate your budget from short-term spending, long-term, midterm goals. You should have a savings account and that money goes there.

Ash Cash:
Your fourth account should be a financial freedom fund. People call it an emergency fund. Words have power so we're not calling any emergencies into our lives so we call it a financial freedom fund. Every time you get paid, you should have a percentage of money that goes into your financial freedom fund.

Ash Cash:
But here's the kicker, Bobbi. Your financial freedom fund should not be in the same bank that you have your checking account. It could be a online bank. It could be a regional bank. I do not want you to have a debit card attached to it. I actually want you to make it so inconvenient that you don't even remember that you have this account. In fact, when you get paid, I want you to automate it somehow where the money goes automatically to that account and allow that money to grow. As that money grows, you use that to increase your wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing all this, but, okay, I feel like I just got a homework assignment from you because I don't have my funds set up that way, and I bet a lot of our grown-up audience does not. So this is a lot to really think about and really incorporate into our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third one is you lose money saving money. Invest first, save last.

Ash Cash:
Yes, yes, yes, and this is old advice. So I was a banker for 15 years, and I remember when I first started my career as a banker in 1999, that was the last time rates were probably like 4, 5% in the CD. Since then, you are, literally, losing money if you keep it in a bank. Especially now with the economy being what it is, I think inflation is over 7%, which means that if you're not at least making 7% in your checking account or your savings account, you're losing money.

Ash Cash:
When you think about investing, whatever investing means for you, whether it's index funds, whether direct stocks, mutual funds, whatever it is, if you look from a long-term investing perspective, the average is going to always beat inflation. So if we are looking to truly manage our money the right way by looking at or activating old advice, we're literally losing money.

Ash Cash:
So we have to invest first. Invest your money first. When I say savings, yes, you'll have that financial freedom fund because you want to have some liquidity. Things happen and so you want to have some liquidity, you want to have some cash available if things happen. But minus the financial freedom fund, let's start getting into investing as soon as possible. Because once you start investing, you take advantage of compound interests. You think about dollar-cost averaging.

Ash Cash:
You think about this year, stocks have been a rollercoaster. Some people get afraid at this time. But companies are, literally, on sale right now. So if you do what's called dollar-cost averaging and you're like, "You know what, let me start investing now," the companies that you would've gotten at $100 or maybe at $20 right now, you better buy them up. Then by the time the economy rebounds, your account's going to start looking nice, really, really nice.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it is important to dollar-cost average and to buy when you do see value, of course. I know you would also counsel people if you're buying individual stocks, make sure that they're down because of things like the overall market tone, not because of a company-specific reason so I just want to add that caveat in for people.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest mistake you think people made in the pandemic in terms of financially? Because it really threw so many people for a loop and a lot of us really, you talk about the stock market, we thought the market would crater during the pandemic, and it did for like a hot second and then it came right back. So I'm just curious to know your observations, what you're seeing among your clients and everybody that you work with.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think the number one money mistake that was made during the pandemic, we didn't pivot fast enough.

Ash Cash:
There's four types of people in the world. You have consumers, producers, investors and philanthropists. Most of us are just consumers, and I think that the pandemic gave us a great opportunity to become producers and investors, and we didn't pivot fast enough. We knew the world how normal it was, and we thought normal was going to come back where normal was never coming back.

Ash Cash:
So people got so used to meetings on Zoom and digital that if whatever our expertise was, if we jumped on it and said, "You know what, we're going to start providing that from a digital standpoint," there were so many digital millionaires made during the pandemic and I think that was the biggest mistake was that we were trying to hold on when it was time to kind of double down on our expertise and reach more of the world because everybody was home. Everybody didn't know what was next, and we could have reached our consumers faster had we pivoted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we all need you on our side. Before I let you go, you have a challenge for our listeners.

Ash Cash:
Yes. So I have the Max Out Your Income Challenge, and it's, literally, helping people do exactly that pivot. Wherever you are in the income spectrum there is always that next level. So I've been able to max out my income through books, creating 15 streams of income from books. So if you go to maxoutyourincome.com, you could join the five-day challenge and take your income to the next level.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, congratulations on all, and thank you so much for joining us. Where can people reach you besides, obviously, we know where to get to that challenge, where can people reach Ash Cash?

Ash Cash:
Yeah. You could follow me or go to my website, iamashcash.com or follow me on all social media platforms at iamashcash.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grown-ups, I think we can all agree Ash Cash has a way of getting us newly re-motivated to take action on our finances. I think my favorite takeaway was when Ash reframed the idea of an emergency fund as a financial freedom fund. It just seems more optimistic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your favorite takeaway? DM me on Instagram at bobbirebell1 and on Twitter at bobbirebell and let me know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you who have bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I have another ask, but it's a really easy one and it doesn't cost a thing. Please leave a five-star review on Amazon. You can keep it short and sweet, but having more reviews makes a big difference in getting the book discovered so we can help more people learn about money and generational wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of generational wealth, I would love to come speak to your company or organization and book clubs. I have some great virtual and in-person programs that you can learn more about by going to the Work with Bobbi tab on the top right of my website, bobbirebell.com. That's B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com. You can also get show notes and transcripts of every podcast right on my website and check out my adulting merch store, GrownupGear for fun gifts. If you're going to graduations, bachelor and bachelorette parties, housewarming parties, birthday parties, whatever you're celebrating, we've got good stuff to give your friends and relatives. Super cute fun stuff to make everyone smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, I wish all of you well, and especially a big thanks to our guest Ash Cash Exantus for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and, you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grown-up friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanAsh Cash, Ash Exantus, Ash Cash Exantus, Money, Money Mistakes, Financial Grownup
Summer Watch Party: Going from Broke
Summer Watch Party: Going from Broke

Our summer watch party kicks off with this endearing and often hilarious series from producer Ashton Kutcher staring financial expert Tonya Rapley and Chegg CEO Dan Rosensweig.  Bobbi is joined by Financial Wellness Expert Jason Vitug of Phroogal to share why they both could not stop binging this show and why you need to be watching it too!

Summer-Watch-Party-Instagram-Graphic-Going-From-Broke-with-Jason-Vitug.png

A Little About The Show

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a bunch of shows picked out for this summer watch series. Most of which are sort of, I would say under appreciated and undiscovered. And one of them that's definitely under appreciated is a show called Going From Broke. It is on Crackle, our mutual friend, Tonya Rapley is part of it. The show is in its second season. Fun fact, it is produced by Ashton Kutcher who does make occasional appearances. Jason, tell us a little bit about the show.

Jason Vitug:
Well, the basic premise for Going From Broke is that each episode features someone who is well broke. Basically they need an intervention, they need some guidance. It's hosted by Dan Rosenzweig, CEO of Chegg and our friend financial expert, Tonya Rapley, who helps young professionals, young individuals become the CEO of their own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So each episode is about a half an hour and it has kind of a classic reality TV structure and that the hosts come in, they do a little preview of what we're going to see. Then they do a debrief with the guest to figure out what exactly is going on. Then we see the person change their bad habits or make some tough decisions. And then there's progress reports at the end. Jason, okay, besides the fact that we both adore Tonya, what's your take on the show?

Jason Vitug:
It's really an amazing show. Just the great casting. One of the key things that I love about shows that talk about personal finance is when it humanizes the individual. And often we kind of look at the financial aspect, just the numbers, not the emotional or the personal side. And this show does a great job in choosing people with compelling stories. So they're not just broke because they made financial mistakes, they're broke because there's a ton of different aspects when it comes to their life that caused them to take on debt or to live above their means.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, a lot of these people are doing amazing things with their life. I mean, one of the people featured is someone called The Donovan. So he's a musician. He's super talented at what he does. Huge personality, very giving, but yet behind the scenes, it's a mess. Right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And I have to say that The Donovan needs his own show. He was endearing. And I was just laughing throughout the whole entire episode. He was so dependent on his income from his gigs. And when this gig stopped during the pandemic, well, what happens, there was no money coming in and he was relying on his savings and then relying on credit. And it was exacerbating his financial issues. And all of a sudden he was in a situation where he was unhappy with his life. And that's where I related.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also he has a very colorful personality, very over the top lifestyle, but yet he didn't really see it that way. And it really was so as you said, I mean, endearing is just the best word for The Donovan. Because if he didn't have that personality, when things would come up, like his not being able to handle tasks that so many of us take for granted, like just basic cleaning your house, mowing your lawn. Although not that I've ever done that. Watching him sort of cave was so like, you just wanted to give the guy a hug because even though he was saying things that sounded crazy, watching him adapt his self care routine to more frugal approaches was the best.

Jason Vitug:
It was hilarious. And I was smiling throughout the episode and the fact that, yes, I've washed my own dishes. I've cleaned my own house. I've mowed my own lawn, but I can not play two pianos at once. And The Donovan can play two pianos at once. So that goes to show you where his talent lies and where he was using his money to help him in other aspects of his life. But when you get that financial situation where income isn't coming in, you're going to have to make drastic changes. And he was hilarious in terms of wanting to keep his routine when it comes to self care. The lawn was awesome at the final part of the show was just amazing. And I was cracking up and I couldn't wait to watch another episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, totally. And by the way, every episode you have to watch to the end because the closing credits, they put in the funniest clips that just leave you with this feeling where you were just rooting for them and so happy for them that they've achieved, whatever it is they achieved over the episode. And the other common theme that I saw in the casting was that these were people that were very successful and they were also generally very giving people. For example, there was someone in the first episode who had been an athlete and he definitely had a pension for buying expensive sneakers, but he was also paying tuition, I think for, was it his little brother? I mean, these are giving people.

Jason Vitug:
These are all giving people. So when that first episode of season one, his name was Obi, he was a former track athlete and a CEO of his own company. He felt in charge of having to take care of his parent and his brother who would be going to college. And this is just one example of the many episodes where it isn't selfish people or people who are broke because they're living way above their means. And they don't care about anyone else, but themselves. They're actually individuals who have responsibilities and they care about their family members, their neighbors, their community. And so part of their wellbeing when you think about it, that way is taking care of others. And they explore this. Well, what happens when your finances fall apart and you become broke and you still have these responsibilities? And so that was one. And one other show that got me was the mother with the special needs child. And she was in dire straits and she relied on credit cards to supplement her income. And so the first take is, okay, you need to stop using credit and you need to do X, Y, and Z such as rent out room for Airbnb. So these are practical tips. That's what I love. They give practical tips to help people manage their finances and kind of stop being broke.

Jason Vitug:
But then there's a point where she wanted to continue to spend eight weeks vacation in Mexico. Part of that was, you could say, okay, well that's luxurious spending. Why would you spend eight weeks, all that cash to go to Mexico? And she shares that is the only place and time where she sees her special needs daughter smiling and being happy. And so you have to connect with people in that human element where we make these financial decisions and we think it's just the numbers, but there's always something deeper behind it. And so for that place automatically, I said, okay, stop going. You can't go to Mexico. And that would probably be my advice, just like what they started with. And then towards the end, they're like, well, yes, that's how you should be spending your money, especially when it's helping your child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, like you said, they're very direct. They're very blunt. They're very understanding. I love an episode where they literally, I mean, this guy, he felt that he was a contractor basically. And he bought a Prius to save money because it's much more fuel efficient, but then he literally bought a truck because he felt that when he went to bid on jobs, no one would give him the job if he wasn't driving a truck and they convinced him to sell, I don't know if you saw this episode, they convinced him to sell the truck. And you know what, he was still closing the deals, but he needed an outside person to show him that. So having that outside perspective, and they do make people sell things. I mean, we were talking about Obi. Obi literally this is a spoiler, literally sells shoes that he is wearing. He bought some expensive sneakers. They made him take them off his feet. It's just an awesome show.

Jason Vitug:
It really is. And I'm a former sneakerhead. So I used to have those expensive sneakers. And so I related to him when the buyer wanted the shoes off his feet and he was going to give a pretty penny. And that is a tough decision. And some people might say, it's just sneakers. I'm telling you from a former sneakerhead, it's not just sneakers. There's a lot tied into it. And so for him to do that, just showed some growth. And I love that about the show.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to some of the lesson takeaways. Here's some of the money tips slash lessons from the show. First of all, I think there's a lot of perspective and understanding, for example, a lot of the spending that we see seems ridiculous, but it's brought to us in empathy and with love. And I think that's a great thing to understand that we're all human and we all have different values, right?

Jason Vitug:
Absolutely. And that kind of leads into that circumstances change. And season two takes place during the pandemic. And the pandemic has changed the lives of so many people and understanding that there are external factors that impact our finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Debtors, a lot of us can be very judgy when it comes to people in debt. But the truth is a lot of the things that put them in debt are things that could easily happen to any of us. And they're very specific down to exactly where the money is spent and we can all relate. I mean, shutting down Amazon or not feeling like you have control over your life if you don't have that money to spend, who hasn't been there at some time, if we're all being honest.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I've been there. And what's often necessary is doing these line by line breakdowns. And they do this really well from our friend, Tonya, who goes through the budget. And this is kind of like an indication that most people are successful with what they do and with their finances until something happens. And when something happens, you have to start asking the question, well, where's the money going?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also look, they do tell the people that are sort of the stars of the show that they have to negotiate. They need to go in and get better deals. For example, if they have a lot of credit card debt, they need to figure out how best to manage it without just kind of continuing to pay it down. You can call up the people that you owe money to and make a better deal for yourself. And I think that's valuable too, to be your own self advocate.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. It's really making those tough decisions. And sometimes those tough decisions are things like opening up your house to a roommate. And if you're used to living by yourself and having someone live in your house is quite a change. And so there's another person that we talked about, Obi selling his sneakers and others who decided to live with relatives and Airbnb that home. And so there are all these decisions that need to be made in order to get your finances from where they are to where you want them to be. And they're not easy, they're tough, but you need to make these tough decisions and they help them through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, they had to sell stuff that was literally part of their identity. That's a really hard thing. There's a lot of tough love in this show. I mean, there's a great line from Dan Rosensweig to a guest who kept talking about how much money they make. And he was like, no, you don't make money. You generate revenue. There is a difference. And then this was the guy who had to sell his truck. Gary V yelled at him for a while and told him to Google the word profit. And he literally, Gary V starts yelling. It was such a great scene. Gary V is yelling at this guy, saying, sell everything you own. And then he said a lot of other mean stuff. So I won't spoil that. You guys can watch that episode. It's awesome because it really crosses a line that a lot of financial shows are just too polite to cross, but they get really kind of, they just... Let's just say that. I don't know. I'll leave it there.

Jason Vitug:
There's a lot of emotional intelligence in the show. There really is a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. And it is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end. And as you mentioned, stay tuned till the end credits because you're going to crack up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is there's sort of an Easter egg in this. I mean, look, it's not a surprise. It is produced by Ashton Kutcher's production company. So he knows people. So in addition to Ashton Kutcher, there's a lot of celebrity appearances. I guess we can spoil some of them. We won't say which shows they're in, but I know Demi Lovato was in one and Jewel was in one. Who else do you remember spotting?

Jason Vitug:
There were executives such as the executive for Airbnb was there. And so there are a number, but the Demi Lovato one when you get to that episode was great because it shows that people who have achieved success in their careers and have a spotlight on them, do have financial struggles and issues as well. And so it's all connected and I love that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. The show just makes so much sense. I wish I had discovered it earlier. I'm glad there's two seasons. I hope they do more. I also, as we mentioned, we're a fan of Tonya's. I also had remembered that I interviewed Dan Rosensweig when I was a reporter at Reuters, he was at Yahoo where he was, I believe the COO. He's the CEO of Chegg. The program, as I mentioned, produced by Ashton Kutcher is sponsored by Chegg and there's definitely corporate support. And I love to see that. I think it's great. Chegg's an educational company, and this is a wonderful way to both get their message out and also do some great [inaudible 00:17:07] content. Right?

Jason Vitug:
I agree. I think it's important for us to kind of get this tie... If a corporation understands the importance of financial education and can create content that entertains me and is educational, it is a win. We need more of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. I give it five stars. It is available. That's just a made up thing, but I'm giving it five stars. We don't have a scale. It's just five stars. That's going to be the most. And it's available on Crackle, which I also never watched. I had to download it just to watch this, but Crackle is free. There's some ads, but Crackle is free. Jason, your final thoughts.

Jason Vitug:
I recommend everyone checking it out. It is a free app, so you're not spending any money to enjoy the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So keep at it guys. We think you're doing great.




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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what, finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. It is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money being a grown up is hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, my grow up friends to our first ever financial grownup summer watch party series. During COVID you guys, I had a chance to check out some streaming shows and there's a lot of uncovered gems out there that have really got amazing money lessons. So I thought what a great idea to highlight a few of them in a little summer mini series for everybody. So we're going to highlight some of my personal favorites, and then we're going to go over the money tips from them in the coming weeks. Now for this episode, I am so excited to be joined by my friend financial wellness guru, Jason Vitug author of You Only Live Once: The Roadmap to Wellness and a Purposeful Life. Also, the brains behind Phroogal spelled with a P-H-R-O-O-G-A-L. Did I spell that right Jason?

Jason Vitug:
You got it absolutely correctly. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason wait, you joined the podcasting world. You just launched your own podcast.

Jason Vitug:
I have. It's Live Financially Well, so I decided let's just jump in it and have awesome conversations with myself. So I'll be reading articles and giving commentary and insights on the articles that I've written. So it's a new way to kind of digest the information and the knowledge that I've written about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and a lot of people like to hear the audio of articles in that it's kind of like books on tape, Phroogal on tape, right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And it's humbling when my brothers and sisters who are part of my target market, they don't read my articles or my blog and they call me or they text me. And so I was recording and sending it to them because they have busy lives and they prefer, or they're auditory learners. They learn listening as opposed to sitting down and reading an article. And I figure there might be way more people. And just like your listeners who learn through voice versus written word.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also through watching. I mean, I do a lot of book recommendations on this podcast and I guess that same idea inspired me to do the summer watch series because I think a lot of people like to consume content and maybe learn through video. I think that's something we learned over the pandemic with everybody learning stuff and having meetings over Zoom. Yes, there can be too much Zoom. Absolutely. But we also can actually learn a lot through video, right?

Jason Vitug:
We really do. That's why I'm excited about this discussion today because it's a different form of learning. So entertainment or edutainment. So this is going to be exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Edutainment. Okay. I have a bunch of shows picked out for this summer watch series. Most of which are sort of, I would say underappreciated and undiscovered. And one of them that's definitely underappreciated is a show called Going From broke. It is on Crackle, our mutual friend, Tonya Rapley is part of it. The show is in its second season. Fun fact, it is produced by Ashton Kutcher who does make occasional appearances. Jason, tell us a little bit about the show.

Jason Vitug:
Well, the basic premise for Going From Broke is that each episode features someone who is well broke. Basically they need an intervention, they need some guidance. It's hosted by Dan Rosenzweig, CEO of Chegg and our friend financial expert, Tonya Rapley, who helps young professionals, young individuals become the CEO of their own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So each episode is about a half an hour and it has kind of a classic reality TV structure and that the hosts come in, they do a little preview of what we're going to see. Then they do a debrief with the guest to figure out what exactly is going on. Then we see the person change their bad habits or make some tough decisions. And then there's progress reports at the end. Jason, okay, besides the fact that we both adore Tonya, what's your take on the show?

Jason Vitug:
It's really an amazing show. Just the great casting. One of the key things that I love about shows that talk about personal finance is when it humanizes the individual. And often we kind of look at the financial aspect, just the numbers, not the emotional or the personal side. And this show does a great job in choosing people with compelling stories. So they're not just broke because they made financial mistakes, they're broke because there's a ton of different aspects when it comes to their life that caused them to take on debt or to live above their means.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, a lot of these people are doing amazing things with their life. I mean, one of the people featured is someone called The Donovan. So he's a musician. He's super talented at what he does. Huge personality, very giving, but yet behind the scenes, it's a mess. Right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And I have to say that The Donovan needs his own show. He was endearing. And I was just laughing throughout the whole entire episode. He was so dependent on his income from his gigs. And when this gig stopped during the pandemic, well, what happens, there was no money coming in and he was relying on his savings and then relying on credit. And it was exacerbating his financial issues. And all of a sudden he was in a situation where he was unhappy with his life. And that's where I related.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also he has a very colorful personality, very over the top lifestyle, but yet he didn't really see it that way. And it really was so as you said, I mean, endearing is just the best word for The Donovan. Because if he didn't have that personality, when things would come up, like his not being able to handle tasks that so many of us take for granted, like just basic cleaning your house, mowing your lawn. Although not that I've ever done that. Watching him sort of cave was so like, you just wanted to give the guy a hug because even though he was saying things that sounded crazy, watching him adapt his self care routine to more frugal approaches was the best.

Jason Vitug:
It was hilarious. And I was smiling throughout the episode and the fact that, yes, I've washed my own dishes. I've cleaned my own house. I've mowed my own lawn, but I can not play two pianos at once. And The Donovan can play two pianos at once. So that goes to show you where his talent lies and where he was using his money to help him in other aspects of his life. But when you get that financial situation where income isn't coming in, you're going to have to make drastic changes. And he was hilarious in terms of wanting to keep his routine when it comes to self care. The lawn was awesome at the final part of the show was just amazing. And I was cracking up and I couldn't wait to watch another episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, totally. And by the way, every episode you have to watch to the end because the closing credits, they put in the funniest clips that just leave you with this feeling where you were just rooting for them and so happy for them that they've achieved, whatever it is they achieved over the episode. And the other common theme that I saw in the casting was that these were people that were very successful and they were also generally very giving people. For example, there was someone in the first episode who had been an athlete and he definitely had a pension for buying expensive sneakers, but he was also paying tuition, I think for, was it his little brother? I mean, these are giving people.

Jason Vitug:
These are all giving people. So when that first episode of season one, his name was Obi, he was a former track athlete and a CEO of his own company. He felt in charge of having to take care of his parent and his brother who would be going to college. And this is just one example of the many episodes where it isn't selfish people or people who are broke because they're living way above their means. And they don't care about anyone else, but themselves. They're actually individuals who have responsibilities and they care about their family members, their neighbors, their community. And so part of their wellbeing when you think about it, that way is taking care of others. And they explore this. Well, what happens when your finances fall apart and you become broke and you still have these responsibilities? And so that was one. And one other show that got me was the mother with the special needs child. And she-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Go ahead.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. So she was in dire straits and she relied on credit cards to supplement her income. And so the first take is, okay, you need to stop using credit and you need to do X, Y, and Z such as rent out room for Airbnb. So these are practical tips. That's what I love. They give practical tips to help people manage their finances and kind of stop being broke.

Jason Vitug:
But then there's a point where she wanted to continue to spend eight weeks vacation in Mexico. Part of that was, you could say, okay, well that's luxurious spending. Why would you spend eight weeks, all that cash to go to Mexico? And she shares that is the only place and time where she sees her special needs daughter smiling and being happy. And so you have to connect with people in that human element where we make these financial decisions and we think it's just the numbers, but there's always something deeper behind it. And so for that place automatically, I said, okay, stop going. You can't go to Mexico. And that would probably be my advice, just like what they started with. And then towards the end, they're like, well, yes, that's how you should be spending your money, especially when it's helping your child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, like you said, they're very direct. They're very blunt. They're very understanding. I love an episode where they literally, I mean, this guy, he felt that he was a contractor basically. And he bought a Prius to save money because it's much more fuel efficient, but then he literally bought a truck because he felt that when he went to bid on jobs, no one would give him the job if he wasn't driving a truck and they convinced him to sell, I don't know if you saw this episode, they convinced him to sell the truck. And you know what, he was still closing the deals, but he needed an outside person to show him that. So having that outside perspective, and they do make people sell things. I mean, we were talking about Obi. Obi literally this is a spoiler, literally sells shoes that he is wearing. He bought some expensive sneakers. They made him take them off his feet. It's just an awesome show.

Jason Vitug:
It really is. And I'm a former sneakerhead. So I used to have those expensive sneakers. And so I related to him when the buyer wanted the shoes off his feet and he was going to give a pretty penny. And that is a tough decision. And some people might say, it's just sneakers. I'm telling you from a former sneakerhead, it's not just sneakers. There's a lot tied into it. And so for him to do that, just showed some growth. And I love that about the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to some of the lesson takeaways. Here's some of the money tips slash lessons from the show. First of all, I think there's a lot of perspective and understanding, for example, a lot of the spending that we see seems ridiculous, but it's brought to us in empathy and with love. And I think that's a great thing to understand that we're all human and we all have different values, right?

Jason Vitug:
Absolutely. And that kind of leads into that circumstances change. And season two takes place during the pandemic. And the pandemic has changed the lives of so many people and understanding that there are external factors that impact our finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Debtors, a lot of us can be very judgy when it comes to people in debt. But the truth is a lot of the things that put them in debt are things that could easily happen to any of us. And they're very specific down to exactly where the money is spent and we can all relate. I mean, shutting down Amazon or not feeling like you have control over your life if you don't have that money to spend, who hasn't been there at some time, if we're all being honest.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I've been there. And what's often necessary is doing these line by line breakdowns. And they do this really well from our friend, Tonya, who goes through the budget. And this is kind of like an indication that most people are successful with what they do and with their finances until something happens. And when something happens, you have to start asking the question, well, where's the money going?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also look, they do tell the people that are sort of the stars of the show that they have to negotiate. They need to go in and get better deals. For example, if they have a lot of credit card debt, they need to figure out how best to manage it without just kind of continuing to pay it down. You can call up the people that you owe money to and make a better deal for yourself. And I think that's valuable too, to be your own self advocate.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. It's really making those tough decisions. And sometimes those tough decisions are things like opening up your house to a roommate. And if you're used to living by yourself and having someone live in your house is quite a change. And so there's another person that we talked about, Obi selling his sneakers and others who decided to live with relatives and Airbnb that home. And so there are all these decisions that need to be made in order to get your finances from where they are to where you want them to be. And they're not easy, they're tough, but you need to make these tough decisions and they help them through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, they had to sell stuff that was literally part of their identity. That's a really hard thing. There's a lot of tough love in this show. I mean, there's a great line from Dan Rosensweig to a guest who kept talking about how much money they make. And he was like, no, you don't make money. You generate revenue. There is a difference. And then this was the guy who had to sell his truck. Gary V yelled at him for a while and told him to Google the word profit. And he literally, Gary V starts yelling. It was such a great scene. Gary V is yelling at this guy, saying, sell everything you own. And then he said a lot of other mean stuff. So I won't spoil that. You guys can watch that episode. It's awesome because it really crosses a line that a lot of financial shows are just too polite to cross, but they get really kind of, they just... Let's just say that. I don't know. I'll leave it there.

Jason Vitug:
There's a lot of emotional intelligence in the show. There really is a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. And it is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end. And as you mentioned, stay tuned till the end credits because you're going to crack up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is there's sort of an Easter egg in this. I mean, look, it's not a surprise. It is produced by Ashton Kutcher's production company. So he knows people. So in addition to Ashton Kutcher, there's a lot of celebrity appearances. I guess we can spoil some of them. We won't say which shows they're in, but I know Demi Lovato was in one and Jewel was in one. Who else do you remember spotting?

Jason Vitug:
There were executives such as the executive for Airbnb was there. And so there are a number, but the Demi Lovato one when you get to that episode was great because it shows that people who have achieved success in their careers and have a spotlight on them, do have financial struggles and issues as well. And so it's all connected and I love that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. The show just makes so much sense. I wish I had discovered it earlier. I'm glad there's two seasons. I hope they do more. I also, as we mentioned, we're a fan of Tonya's. I also had remembered that I interviewed Dan Rosensweig when I was a reporter at Reuters, he was at Yahoo where he was, I believe the COO. He's the CEO of Chegg. The program, as I mentioned, produced by Ashton Kutcher is sponsored by Chegg and there's definitely corporate support. And I love to see that. I think it's great. Chegg's an educational company, and this is a wonderful way to both get their message out and also do some great [inaudible 00:17:07] content. Right?

Jason Vitug:
I agree. I think it's important for us to kind of get this tie... If a corporation understands the importance of financial education and can create content that entertains me and is educational, it is a win. We need more of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. I give it five stars. It is available. That's just a made up thing, but I'm giving it five stars. We don't have a scale. It's just five stars. That's going to be the most. And it's available on Crackle, which I also never watched. I had to download it just to watch this, but Crackle is free. There's some ads, but Crackle is free. Jason, your final thoughts.

Jason Vitug:
I recommend everyone checking it out. It is a free app, so you're not spending any money to enjoy the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So keep at it guys. We think you're doing great. Jason, where can people catch up with you?

Jason Vitug:
You can find me on social media, Twitter and Instagram. That's where I'm most active @phroogal, That's P-H-R-O-O-A-L. And you can also converse with me via the website, Phroogal.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason, thank you so much for joining me.

Jason Vitug:
Thank you. This was fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And everyone follow Jason. Follow me on Instagram at @bobbirebell1 and DM me what other shows you want us to talk about on the show. We're going to do a bunch of episodes in the summer watch series. Thanks again. We'll see you next time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.


Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Reality TV starsBobbi Rebell KaufmanGoing From Broke, Summer Watch Party, Crackle, Reality TV, Tonya Rapley, Dan Rosensweig, Chegg, Ashton Kutcher, Jason Vitug, Money, Phroogal
5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness and improve your mental health with Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money
5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness and improve your mental health with Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money

Do you track your “Happy Spends” against your “Sad Spends”? Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money will have you doing that and more with her money mental wellness tips. Don’t you feel better already?

Dr-Elizabeth-Dunn-Main-Instagram-Author-Happy-Money.png

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn’s 5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I spend my day-to-day work life thinking about what makes people happy and how we can make people happier. In particular, I've been really interested in how we can harness money as a tool to increase our happiness. I think the sort of overarching idea that I've been arguing throughout my career is that how much money we have actually matters less than what it is we do with it. So making more careful choices around not just how we invest our money, how we save our money-- which we think so much about-- but also how we spend our money. Can we spend it in ways that genuinely make us happier, rather than just sort of squandering it on the things that daily life tempts us with? All the things we see in sort of advertisements, things we see other people buying. Instead, can we chart our own path and find the kinds of purchases that really fill us with happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is such a great concept and one that I should mention you do cover in your book, Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending. All right, let's get to your five tips for financial wellness. Now some of these might sound familiar, but the way that you present them is going to really resonate I think, with our audience, because you also have the data to back them up and I think that's going to really motivate a lot of us to put these into action in our lives. Okay. The first one is normalize talking about money, which we hear a lot, but you've got a different spin on it.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. This really comes from our research at Happy Money where we've seen that people in debt especially really want a chance to hear from other people that have been through that journey too. They want to know how did you get through this? How did you pay off your debt? What challenges did you overcome? We're used to talking about money maybe on the brighter side of investments and savings and so forth, but I think it's really important that we start sharing our financial lows along with our financial highs just to normalize talking about money and just taking away some of the stigma that surrounds debt. We really encourage people to talk about and think about what it is that a rich life means to them. So I would argue that rich really is not about what's in your bank account. It's about what makes you happy and fulfilled in meaningful and sustainable ways. One thing we see is that over and above how much income people earn, it really matters how they think about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your second money tip is to treat money as a tool, but again, you are reframing the conversation here.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. So I think very often, people treat money as an end in itself. So much of financial planning, for example, surrounds how to get more money. So if we shift the conversation to be about how to get more happiness, then we start thinking of money not as an end in itself, but as a tool, kind of pathway for getting to happiness. We do know that people who have more money tend to be happier than those who have less, but this is mainly because those people with more money tend to be more able to meet their expenses and stay out of debt. In reality, the amount of money that you have really matters less than what you do with it and the key here is figuring out how to use money as a tool to boost your mental health and happiness.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This holds true whether you have a little money or a lot of money. In some of our recent data, we're seeing just how consistently these ideas hold up across the whole spectrum of income. For example, we know from research that people tend to get more satisfaction from buying time. For example, buying some help with childcare or a meal delivery service can really pay dividends in terms of life satisfaction. And from our latest data from Happy Money, we're actually seeing that this relationship holds true again, even for people who are living paycheck to paycheck, kind of struggling to make ends meet.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
It's quite a consistent principal and even more consistent, we see that people who give, who use their money to benefit others, tend to experience greater happiness. This is what we see, remarkably, even for people below the poverty line. This relationship holds true all the way across the income spectrum. At the end of the day, that's really why we created Happy Money, which is to help people use their money in ways that support their wellbeing and happiness and also allow them to build healthier and more mindful habits more broadly around their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because some of the examples you just gave like ordering in dinner are things that we generally think of as splurges and things that we can cut out when we're trying to get control of our budgets, but we shouldn't maybe make those assumptions.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's exactly right. In our research, we see that many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress, a lot of time stress... Buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has this changed during the pandemic? Do you have any data on that? I'm curious.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. We're just beginning to fully explore this question of how these principles might've been altered through the pandemic. But I think a particularly interesting one to focus on at this stage of the pandemic is giving, because we know that many people did not give as much money as they usually would to charity during the pandemic. Many charities are really hurting right now, and so as we kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel and maybe experience some gratitude over having made it this far and still being alive, still kind of being okay. I think this is a wonderful time to pay it forward.

Elizabeth-Dunn-Twitter-Quote-#3-Author-Happy-Money.png

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's move on to the third one. I think this is my favorite one. Track your happy spends versus sad spends.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. So I always tell people to track what you spend and how it makes you feel. So people are used to tracking their spending to try to restrain their spending or know how much they've got, but I say add on how it makes you feel so you can actually decide what's worth it to you and what's not. So really pay attention to how these purchases affect your mood and then you can start to identify what I call happy spends, these spends that really make you happy. And sad spends, maybe things that used to make you happy but aren't really paying off in terms of your happiness anymore.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This is going to help you ask yourself what actually brings you real joy and what do you regret by the next day? I would argue that when you shift your spending toward what makes you truly happy... That might be paying off debt, or savoring a treat, helping a friend donating to charity. That can enable you to make better, happier decisions around your own wellbeing and it's also a great opportunity to start thinking about investing in your future self. What are the purchases that make you happy when you first acquire them, but also still continue to provide happiness dividends going forward. I think that's a really fascinating issue. Helping people gain better self insight into what makes them happy starts with just paying attention in the moment to what's providing you joy and what's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was so glad to see this next one on the list because it really resonates with so many of us coming out of this pandemic. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis for me on celebrate along the way, because we really don't know what's going to happen.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. I mean, this experience of the past year has really made me appreciate the value of just celebrating what's good in the moment. So, I recommend when people are tackling a big financial challenge or big life challenge, start with small manageable changes. Achievable changes. And then do take the time to celebrate those little milestones along the way. So it isn't necessarily about just achieving your final goal and that's the only time you should celebrate. Celebrate each piece of it. So break your big goals into more bite sized pieces and these small steps are going to be a lot easier to form into sticky sorts of habits. Just to give some examples, you could start with little changes like saving $10 a week, or maybe giving $15 to a charitable organization that needs your support, or try putting an extra $50 a month toward your credit card debt.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
These are potentially more achievable changes that over time can actually have a really big impact on your overall happiness. So what we've seen in our data at Happy Money is that even building up a little bit of savings can go a long way in terms of people's life satisfaction. So we see that people with just $400 in emergency savings reported over 13% higher levels of life satisfaction compared to people who didn't have that cushion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're removing that anxiety, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I think that's a huge part of it. So we see that when people have savings, it kind of acts as this cushion that protects them from some of the shocks of unexpected events in daily life and can also just reassure people that they're going to be a little bit insulated. I think that's one of the big lessons for me from the pandemic because we just don't know what the future holds. Save up some money now so you're ready for whatever surprises the future might have in store.

Elizabeth-Dunn-Twitter-Quote-#1-Author-Happy-Money.png

Bobbi Rebell:
And this last one, I think, is just so essential and I hope that people take the time and really take it seriously. And that is to take the time to deal with your feelings around money... Because we often get so caught up in life's day-to-day, we never stop and kind of examine how we're approaching money.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. And I think this is probably the most important tip. That we focus so much on the sort of objective financial challenges surrounding money itself but we have to also deal with the feelings that are hovering around those challenges. So thinking about this, we decided last year to introduce a new money, mindfulness and stress reduction program that we call Peace. Like peace and love. This free course is really neat because it incorporates cognitive behavioral therapy and psychology to help people understand and reduce the impact that financial stress is having on their lives. The fact that it's completely free was super important to me. This is something we are giving away to just help people deal with the financial stress that the past year has created.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
What we did was really to try to think about how could busy people fit this into their lives? As somebody who's got a full-time job and a kid I thought, 'Could I make this work even for me?' Each exercise is really broken down into these small digestible bites and everything is personalized to the individual and really designed to build skills for addressing stress levels. And going beyond just combating stress, we also wanted to think about the positive sides. So we've got a whole week that's devoted to just helping people promote more positive thoughts and actions. To learn how to amplify their positive emotions and get more joy out of the tiny pleasures of daily life like sitting in the sunshine or eating a piece of chocolate.



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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grown-up for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
In our research, we see that people, many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress-- a lot of time stress-- buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being grown up is hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends! I hope everyone is having fun this summer and feeling healthy and most of all, feeling happier these days. A lot of things affect our moods. I know for me, I always feel better when the weather is good and there is scientific evidence that for some people, including me, sunshine and warmth really does have an impact on our moods. There's also evidence that what's going on with our money can have a measurable impact, a scientifically measurable impact on our mood and yes, our happiness. So, okay. For most of us, it doesn't take a scientific survey or research or whatever to tell us that if we're worried about money, we're not happy. But stick with me friends, because if we understand the science, we can then take it to the next level and implement real strategies to boost our financial wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for example, a lot of the time, things like meal delivery plans are framed as something that maybe we should feel a little guilty about. We see it as a splurge, a luxury, and certainly discretionary when we're having budgeting discussions. But here's the thing. Apparently, things that buy us time are scientifically proven to be good for our mental health and could actually be one of the best uses of our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I found the perfect guest to tell us more about all of that and also to teach us how we can incorporate good money habits that lead to happiness into our lives. Dr. Elizabeth Dunn is a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of British Columbia and the Chief Science Officer at Happy Money, a Los Angeles based FinTech company. Now Dunn is also the author of Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending which she co authored with Michael Norton of Harvard Business School. Dr. Dunn conducts experimental research on happiness, exploring how people can optimize their use of time, money and technology to promote well-being. Her TED 2019 Talk on generosity and happiness, has been viewed over 3 million times and was selected by TED as one of the top 10 Talks of that year 2019. She is amazing and we are in for a treat. Here is Dr. Elizabeth Dunn. Dr. Elizabeth Dunn, you are a financial grownup. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, okay. Before we get to... You're going to be talking about five tips for financial wellness and improving our mental health, especially as it relates to money. I have to ask you, you call yourself a happiness researcher. Tell us about that.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Well, I spend my day-to-day work life thinking about what makes people happy and how we can make people happier. In particular, I've been really interested in how we can harness money as a tool to increase our happiness. I think the sort of overarching idea that I've been arguing throughout my career is that how much money we have actually matters less than what it is we do with it. So making more careful choices around not just how we invest our money, how we save our money-- which we think so much about-- but also how we spend our money. Can we spend it in ways that genuinely make us happier, rather than just sort of squandering it on the things that daily life tempts us with? All the things we see in sort of advertisements, things we see other people buying. Instead, can we chart our own path and find the kinds of purchases that really fill us with happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is such a great concept and one that I should mention you do cover in your book, Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending. All right, let's get to your five tips for financial wellness. Now some of these might sound familiar, but the way that you present them is going to really resonate I think, with our audience, because you also have the data to back them up and I think that's going to really motivate a lot of us to put these into action in our lives. Okay. The first one is normalize talking about money, which we hear a lot, but you've got a different spin on it.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. This really comes from our research at Happy Money where we've seen that people in debt especially really want a chance to hear from other people that have been through that journey too. They want to know how did you get through this? How did you pay off your debt? What challenges did you overcome? We're used to talking about money maybe on the brighter side of investments and savings and so forth, but I think it's really important that we start sharing our financial lows along with our financial highs just to normalize talking about money and just taking away some of the stigma that surrounds debt. We really encourage people to talk about and think about what it is that a rich life means to them. So I would argue that rich really is not about what's in your bank account. It's about what makes you happy and fulfilled in meaningful and sustainable ways. One thing we see is that over and above how much income people earn, it really matters how they think about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your second money tip is to treat money as a tool, but again, you are reframing the conversation here.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. So I think very often, people treat money as an end in itself. So much of financial planning, for example, surrounds how to get more money. So if we shift the conversation to be about how to get more happiness, then we start thinking of money not as an end in itself, but as a tool, kind of pathway for getting to happiness. We do know that people who have more money tend to be happier than those who have less, but this is mainly because those people with more money tend to be more able to meet their expenses and stay out of debt. In reality, the amount of money that you have really matters less than what you do with it and the key here is figuring out how to use money as a tool to boost your mental health and happiness.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This holds true whether you have a little money or a lot of money. In some of our recent data, we're seeing just how consistently these ideas hold up across the whole spectrum of income. For example, we know from research that people tend to get more satisfaction from buying time. For example, buying some help with childcare or a meal delivery service can really pay dividends in terms of life satisfaction. And from our latest data from Happy Money, we're actually seeing that this relationship holds true again, even for people who are living paycheck to paycheck, kind of struggling to make ends meet.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
It's quite a consistent principal and even more consistent, we see that people who give, who use their money to benefit others, tend to experience greater happiness. This is what we see, remarkably, even for people below the poverty line. This relationship holds true all the way across the income spectrum. At the end of the day, that's really why we created Happy Money, which is to help people use their money in ways that support their wellbeing and happiness and also allow them to build healthier and more mindful habits more broadly around their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because some of the examples you just gave like ordering in dinner are things that we generally think of as splurges and things that we can cut out when we're trying to get control of our budgets, but we shouldn't maybe make those assumptions.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's exactly right. In our research, we see that many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress, a lot of time stress... Buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has this changed during the pandemic? Do you have any data on that? I'm curious.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. We're just beginning to fully explore this question of how these principles might've been altered through the pandemic. But I think a particularly interesting one to focus on at this stage of the pandemic is giving, because we know that many people did not give as much money as they usually would to charity during the pandemic. Many charities are really hurting right now, and so as we kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel and maybe experience some gratitude over having made it this far and still being alive, still kind of being okay. I think this is a wonderful time to pay it forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's move on to the third one. I think this is my favorite one. Track your happy spends versus sad spends.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. So I always tell people to track what you spend and how it makes you feel. So people are used to tracking their spending to try to restrain their spending or know how much they've got, but I say add on how it makes you feel so you can actually decide what's worth it to you and what's not. So really pay attention to how these purchases affect your mood and then you can start to identify what I call happy spends, these spends that really make you happy. And sad spends, maybe things that used to make you happy but aren't really paying off in terms of your happiness anymore.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This is going to help you ask yourself what actually brings you real joy and what do you regret by the next day? I would argue that when you shift your spending toward what makes you truly happy... That might be paying off debt, or savoring a treat, helping a friend donating to charity. That can enable you to make better, happier decisions around your own wellbeing and it's also a great opportunity to start thinking about investing in your future self. What are the purchases that make you happy when you first acquire them, but also still continue to provide happiness dividends going forward. I think that's a really fascinating issue. Helping people gain better self insight into what makes them happy starts with just paying attention in the moment to what's providing you joy and what's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was so glad to see this next one on the list because it really resonates with so many of us coming out of this pandemic. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis for me on celebrate along the way, because we really don't know what's going to happen.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. I mean, this experience of the past year has really made me appreciate the value of just celebrating what's good in the moment. So, I recommend when people are tackling a big financial challenge or big life challenge, start with small manageable changes. Achievable changes. And then do take the time to celebrate those little milestones along the way. So it isn't necessarily about just achieving your final goal and that's the only time you should celebrate. Celebrate each piece of it. So break your big goals into more bite sized pieces and these small steps are going to be a lot easier to form into sticky sorts of habits. Just to give some examples, you could start with little changes like saving $10 a week, or maybe giving $15 to a charitable organization that needs your support, or try putting an extra $50 a month toward your credit card debt.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
These are potentially more achievable changes that over time can actually have a really big impact on your overall happiness. So what we've seen in our data at Happy Money is that even building up a little bit of savings can go a long way in terms of people's life satisfaction. So we see that people with just $400 in emergency savings reported over 13% higher levels of life satisfaction compared to people who didn't have that cushion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're removing that anxiety, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I think that's a huge part of it. So we see that when people have savings, it kind of acts as this cushion that protects them from some of the shocks of unexpected events in daily life and can also just reassure people that they're going to be a little bit insulated. I think that's one of the big lessons for me from the pandemic because we just don't know what the future holds. Save up some money now so you're ready for whatever surprises the future might have in store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this last one, I think, is just so essential and I hope that people take the time and really take it seriously. And that is to take the time to deal with your feelings around money... Because we often get so caught up in life's day-to-day, we never stop and kind of examine how we're approaching money.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. And I think this is probably the most important tip. That we focus so much on the sort of objective financial challenges surrounding money itself but we have to also deal with the feelings that are hovering around those challenges. So thinking about this, we decided last year to introduce a new money, mindfulness and stress reduction program that we call Peace. Like peace and love. This free course is really neat because it incorporates cognitive behavioral therapy and psychology to help people understand and reduce the impact that financial stress is having on their lives. The fact that it's completely free was super important to me. This is something we are giving away to just help people deal with the financial stress that the past year has created.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
What we did was really to try to think about how could busy people fit this into their lives? As somebody who's got a full-time job and a kid I thought, 'Could I make this work even for me?' Each exercise is really broken down into these small digestible bites and everything is personalized to the individual and really designed to build skills for addressing stress levels. And going beyond just combating stress, we also wanted to think about the positive sides. So we've got a whole week that's devoted to just helping people promote more positive thoughts and actions. To learn how to amplify their positive emotions and get more joy out of the tiny pleasures of daily life like sitting in the sunshine or eating a piece of chocolate.

Bobbi Rebell:
We so needed all of these reminders. Where can people follow up with you and then follow you on all the socials?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Well, my number one tip would be to go over to happymoney.com\peace. There they can find more about our Peace program, this free six week program to help people decrease their stress levels. They can follow me on Twitter. I'm @DunnHappyLab. I would also just suggest checking out Happy Money more broadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you feeling happier? Let's do a quick review of some of the concepts here. Okay. First of all, we want to make sure that we actually talk about money with other people. Not to other people by the way, with other people. And it doesn't mean revealing your personal data. It's more like finding comfort in the discussions and taking the stress out of mutual money decisions. So for example, if you make plans with friends to go out, think carefully not just about making sure the place that you go fits your budget, but also fits their budget. So one way to do this is to say that you're going to take control and you'll plan the event or the dining out or whatever you're doing, but give them a few choices. Make sure they're at kind of different price points and point that out to them and maybe in a casual way, be like, "We could splurge and do this, or we could be more budget friendly and do this," or somewhere in between. And you can gauge the reaction from that. It takes away the awkwardness.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the fact that Dr. Dunn talks about treating money as a tool, but not as an end in and of itself. So let's focus on how to get more happiness and how money can get us there. Letting go of the guilt when you buy time to boost happiness. So yeah, hire that babysitter and go on date night. I didn't do it a lot, but maybe I should have. All right track how you spend and how it makes you feel. This is going to help you identify happy spends versus sad spends. I love the way she puts that. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis on celebrating the milestones along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And finally, take the time to deal with your feelings about money. By the way, if you're looking for more info about happiness, definitely check out my recent episode with Meaghan Murphy, where we talk about specific ways to be happier and make sure to also read Meaghan's book, Your Fully Charged Life, which is a great summer beach read. You'll love the cover by the way, it's so... The cover itself makes you happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoy this episode, I would love your help. Make sure you are following it on the platform of your choice and make sure you share it with friends. One easy way to do that is just take a screenshot and post it on your social media and of course, please tag me so I can thank you and I can also share it as well. Growing the show is really hard and your help means the world to me. On Instagram, by the way, I'm @bobbirebell1. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L and then the number one. I highly recommend Dr. Dunn's free Peace course. So go to our show notes at bobbirebell.com under podcast for details. I also provide summaries and full transcripts of the show in the show notes. So please definitely use that resource. It's there for you. It's also free. And of course, we are so thankful and so happy that Dr. Elizabeth Dunn was able to join us and help us all be happy financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by [Steve Stewart 00:18:04]. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by [Ashley Wall 00:18:09]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts . Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Authors, Advice, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMoney, Happy Money, Happiness Researcher, Author, Authors, Elizabeth Dunn, Money Tips, Happy Spends
How Jen Risher got over the social awkwardness of extreme unexpected wealth
How Jen Risher got over the social awkwardness of extreme unexpected wealth

Jen Risher, Author of “We Need to Talk, A Memoir About Wealth” and her husband made a fortune thanks to stock they both received while employed at Microsoft, adding more when her husband joined Amazon. But as Jen shares, the blessings of wealth came with a social awkwardness until she learned some key strategies we can all learn from and apply to our lives when we have different financial circumstances from those around us. 

Jennifer Risher

Jen’s Money Story:

Jennifer Risher:
I joined Microsoft, and I met my husband and then I got these things called stock options which ended up being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that was the beginning because six years later when David and I were married and expecting our first child, he took a job at a small unknown start-up that was selling books on the internet called Amazon.com. And there we were in our early thirties, company went public and yeah, we had more money than we could wrap our head around.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is wonderful, but it also made your life a little bit complicated and your money story has to do with how it, I guess, influenced the different challenges you faced when you were a new mother. Tell us your money story.

Jennifer Risher:
Yeah. Well, after our first daughter was born, well, motherhood is incredible, right? So this curtain opened, I entered this new world, I had this incredible baby, and I joined a moms group with other new moms and we were all in it together. I mean, everyone wants to talk about how much their baby isn't sleeping, and how to keep them from crying and just all the joys, the ups and downs. And I felt so connected to this group of women. At the same time, I had this other curtain lift and I was in this other new world where there was really silence. No one talks about money and I heard that, "Oh, the wealthy don't want to worry about people only liking them for their money." But I wasn't worried about being liked for what I had. I was worried about being hated for it. So I kept it secret. I kept it hidden. So as the women in my mothers group started talking about what stroller to buy or what highchair to buy, I felt like I couldn't contribute. I didn't want anyone to know about my situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because a lot of the discussion had to do with best value, best bang for your buck, where can you get things for less. Price was a big part of that decision for them and it wasn't necessarily for you. Is that correct?

Jennifer Risher:
That's absolutely right. Yes. So although we were relating on every level to all the stuff that was going on as new moms, when it came to buying anything or thinking about like, I'd have to just be at home during the evenings when my husband was out working, he never came home, he was working really hard. And I felt like I couldn't complain about that. So there were a lot of issues that were kind of coming up for me that I couldn't share with other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how did that evolve? Did you become more comfortable with them? Did it start coming out? What was their reaction? And did they react negatively as you feared?

Jennifer Risher:
Well, it took a long time to evolve. It's hard to imagine money is a challenge that needs to be overcome. And I'll say up front that money does make life easier. So no one needs to shed any tears over my situation, but it is isolating. So I didn't talk about it. And normally I do, if I have a question, I ask my friends, "What should you do? What did you do?" I get other people's experiences but when it came to money, there was no one I could turn to. I felt like I couldn't talk. And it's taken me a long time to get comfortable enough to talk and to try and get other people to do the same.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do that helped you get over that hurdle?

Jennifer Risher:
Yeah. I spent some time feeling a little on the outside, which was tough. And I think I spent a long time writing my book and that was part of kind of coming to terms with issues around money. And now I really want to get us talking about money because it is a way to connect and learn from each other. I mean, the emotions that come up with money are pretty universal because they involve fear. We're afraid of hurting someone's feelings, we're afraid of not measuring up or sounding unknowledgeable. And we all have some sense of money shame or money guilt. We all have a money story. Right? And so the more we can talk to each other about the emotions that come up for us, I think the better because we'd be more connected.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has it affected your friendships?

Jennifer Risher:
When you don't talk about something, I think it tends to loom large and take on a life of its own. It gives money a lot of power when you don't talk about it. But I think when you actually can have that dialogue, it kind of puts money in its place as a tool and a benefit. That's something that's not bigger than I am or than a friend is. So the people who know me and know that that's just something that I am lucky enough to have as a tool in my toolbox.

 
“I really want to get us talking about money because it is a way to connect and learn from each other”
 

Jen’s Money Lesson:

Jennifer Risher:
I think it is important to be transparent and to acknowledge those differences upfront. And when they come up, to talk about them, like if I want to go to a fancy restaurant and I know the person that I want to have dinner with, can't afford it, [inaudible 00:07:20] "It's on me this time." Or if someone feels like they don't want to go to that restaurant, they want to eat somewhere more within their budget, then we need to talk about it and make sure that those things don't become bigger than us and that we're in communication. So I think it really is important to maybe get uncomfortable for a little bit and to be vulnerable and really connect as people because ultimately, I mean, that's where life happens and that's where happiness happens. Is in our relationships and our connections with other people.

Jennifer Risher:
People say money doesn't make you happy. And I used to tell myself, "Oh, money doesn't make me happy. Well, it's not going to make me happy." Kind of secretly thinking that it just might, but now I can tell you from firsthand experience that yeah, it's nice, but it's not it. It really is those relationships that you have with other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it sounds like you've evolved. How would you have approached that group differently?

Jennifer Risher:
I used to want to keep things hidden and now it doesn't benefit me, it doesn't benefit anyone else either. I mean, it's not helpful to try and hide what you have or what you don't have because people can sense authenticity and I trust people enough to be able to handle the fact that I have money and that they can look past it and see me as just another person, because that's how I feel and I think that's important for us all to know. That, no, money doesn't make you special or better than or worse than. It's just one more thing that you have in your life. And I feel very fortunate that I have it in my life because it means that I can be generous and I am very grateful.



 
“The emotions that come up with money are pretty universal, because they involve fear, we are afraid of hiring someone’s feelings, or not measuring up.. we all have some sense of money shame or money guilt.”
 

Jen’s Money Tip:

Jennifer Risher:
It is. I'll tell you a little story because a friend of mine who is middle-class told me how she and her husband drove the same car for many, many years and finally, when it broke down, she bought an Audi Q5. She'd always wanted that car, she loved that car. But then when she was thinking about visiting her sister and driving up in the car, she started to worry about being judged. And in her mind, she heard herself through her sister saying, "Oh, aren't we fancy now? Probably too good for us," in her mind. Then she also heard herself justifying the car, "Well it was used. It wasn't that expensive." And there is an example of, you haven't even talked to your sister and you're making all these assumptions, you're telling yourself stories of what would happen if she had talked to her sister. My bet is that it maybe would be a little uncomfortable, but there's so much relief and connection that can come from addressing your fears of whatever she was afraid her sister would feel.

Jennifer Risher:
And then there is that, like you say, the ownership of, "Yeah, I wanted this car, I'm excited about this car, and I'm happy with it." And to share that excitement with your sister.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think that what you're basically saying is, don't apologize for something. Don't create a conflict that doesn't exist. Don't prejudge that people are going to judge you for a purchase. Live your own life, do what you want to do, and let them react but communicate with them, discuss it. If they have a reaction like that to something you purchase, well, ask them, why. Why do they take issue with you buying something? And in some cases it could be they're taking issue because they have a real concern. Somebody might have a spending problem or something. It doesn't sound like that's the case here, but it's the dialogue. It's talking about it, and keeping that relationship intact and not presuming someone's going to judge you and therefore not buying it or even worse hiding a purchase.

Jennifer Risher:
Yes. Well said. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it is that communication. A friend of mine told me like a year after the fact that she almost hadn't invited our family to join hers to see a Cirque du Soleil show. And she said, "Yeah, I agonized over it for weeks. I was worried that you would only want to sit in front row seats, which our family can't afford." I felt terrible. I didn't realize that she was worried about the finances, but our friendship meant more to me than front row seats. Didn't she know that? But I'm so happy that she said something to me. And the fact that she trusted me enough to bring up money really made me feel closer to her, and our conversation really, it ended up bringing us closer. It also made me more aware of how money might play a role in my relationships with other people and how I could be out of touch. Like that hadn't even crossed my mind. But hearing that from her helped me be more aware. So I think it's just a win win.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, there's so many things. Who knows what we don't know? That people judge us, whether maybe somebody doesn't invite somebody to something because they think they don't have enough money, and they do want to sit in the front row seats, which is not very nice. But some people might say, "We want to go to this restaurant and we don't feel comfortable treating them. And so we're not going to invite them," when maybe they could afford it or would do it, and we just should talk about it. We shouldn't just assume and make judgments about people. And also we should buy things we want to buy if we can afford them and enjoy them and not assume we will be judged. So much wisdom.

 
“It gives money a lot of power when you don’t talk about it. But I think when you actually can have that dialogue it kind of puts money in it’s place as a tool or a benefit.”
 


Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

if you are the wealthier of your friends and you want to treat the other friend or friends to say a restaurant meal or the best seats at a show like Cirque du Soleil, you can make it a little less awkward by tying the outing to a special celebration. Maybe it's a birthday, or if it's a couple, maybe it's a couple's anniversary, or maybe there's a work accomplishment to celebrate. That way, you're treating as a gift for a reason, not because of the difference in economic resources.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

The next time you're negotiating for a new job, or you're getting a raise, or you have any leverage in a job or some kind of venture that there's stock options as a possibility, get the stock options. They could pay off big.



Episode Links:


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Authors, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanJen Risher, Jennifer Risher, Author, Money, Money Talk, Talking About Money, Financial Grownup
Top New Money Books for Grownups Right Now (Winter 2020)
Top New Money Books for Grownups Right Now (Winter 2020)
Money Books Winter 2020 Instagram

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include Don’t Keep Your Day Job by Cathy Heller, The Big Stretch by Teneshia Warner, The Future is Faster Than You Think by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, Napkin Finance by Tina Hay and Bow Dow by Lindsay Goldwert.

These are recommendations so I am going to focus on why I was drawn to them and what I got out of them- and full disclosure we do focus  on books written by authors that appear on the podcast- because if we are being honest when I love a book- I want to know more and I want to share that with you guys so we tend to reach out and try to get them on.

Book #1: Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career by Cathy Heller

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-The book is practical and specific. She gives down to earth advice about how to realistically follow your passion but in a very practical way. 

- She shares advice from experts including authors Jen Sincero and Gretchen Rubin and actress Jenna Fischer. There are also stories about every day people to make it relatable.

-There are lots of inspirational quotes like "Why did it have to be an ‘either-or’ when it could be a ‘yes and’?”

Who is this book for:

Don’t keep your day job will motivate just about anyone but it is especially for people looking for advice on well.. how to leave their corporate jobs. Also Entrepreneurs who need a little nudge to connect doing what they love, with doing something that another person or entity will pay for. Emphasis on getting paid.  

Book #2: The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success by Teneshia Warner

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It shares the success stories of some of the dreamers that have spoken at those conferences

-It has a time line: 90 days with specific assignments

-Teneshia’s personality shines through and is the real gem in this book

Who is this book for:

It’s for people willing to do the work to get to their goals and The Big Stretch will help you decide if that is you. Not everyone is ready to go for it- and Teneshia sets expectations that will push you to get there- but only if you are ready. 

Book #3: The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-At first I was intimidated by the book- in part because it’s authors are so accomplished as “Big” Thought Leaders. But once I started reading it, this actually became a page turner because of the very accessible way they approach what are often complicated topics, 

-It’s a little like looking into a crystal ball except after- and only after they lay out theories and predictions, you realize that to a large degree. the way things play out was logical all along. They touch on everything from AI, to digital biology, virtual reality, robotics and blockchain.

-The book made me smarter about our world and who doesn’t love just feeling like they have a better handle on our world. 

Who is this book for:

Truth- This is all stuff I just wasn’t that into- until I started reading the book. So even if this isn’t your thing- move out of your comfort zone and just start. You might be surprised how much you like it, just like I did. 

Book #4: Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less by Tina Hay.

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It addresses the very basics of financial literacy in a unique and approachable way

-Napkin Finance explains some of the most misunderstood and confusing topics ranging from blockchain to credit scores and paying off student debt.

-Fun fact: Napkin Finance partnered with Michelle Obama’s Better Make Room campaign 

Who is this book for:

Napkin Finance is a book for beginners- and for those of us that can benefit from some re-enforcement and sometimes clarification of financial concepts- most basic but some kind of complicated. 

Bonus Book: Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want by Lindsay Goldwert.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-Lindsay is very revealing about her own challenges and makes you feel like you are in it together with her

-The doms- as Lindsay often refers to the dominatrixes share some very specific advice about how they negotiate and hold on to power

-There is a lot of psychology and real insights into human behavior and what triggers certain reactions. By revealing these Lindsay helps us see why we get the reactions we do, and how we can pivot to get.. well everything we want. 

Who is this book for:

Everyone that wants to get everything they want- of course. 

Episode Links:

Cathy Heller’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career

Teneshia Warner’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success

Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives

Tina Hay’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less

Lindsay Goldwert’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Advice, Authors, Career, Entrepreneurs, Business, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guides, Get Paid More, Money, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanBooks, Author, Authors, Money, Money Books, Financial Grownup, Cathy Heller, Don't Keep Your Day Job, The Big Stretch, Teneshia Warner, The Future is Faster Than You Think, Peter Diamandis, Steven Kotler, Tina Hay, Lindsay Goldwert
Financial Grownup Guide: 7 ways money will change in the future- and how we can be ready with Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler
Financial Grownup Guide: 7 ways money will change in the future- and how we can be ready with Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler
Peter Diamandis + Steven Kotler Instagram

Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, authors of "The Future is Faster Than You Think: How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries And Our Lives" join Bobbi with a preview of their latest book, and specific ways money-related changes will impact us in the coming years. 

8 Ways Money Will Change the Future

1. We’re going to live longer—we’ll need to approach retirement very differently

2. Demonetization is going to radically alter education, travel etc.

3. Convergence means that future financial investment opportunities can lie between industries and in mash-up markets

4. New players in Finance (Google, for example, just went into banking)

5. Insurance is going to radically change and whole categories will vanish

6. Your AI is going to be making a lot of your buying decisions for you.

7 You also say we are moving to a cashless future 

8 -Blockchain will continue to disrupt traditional banking, spreading widely into the developed world much like it’s already transformed financial systems in developing countries.

Episode Links:

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Follow Steven!

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us a little bit about the book, just quickly before we get into some really cool stuff you're going to share with us.

Steven Kotler:
The future we talk about in the book, for some people is scary, because people are not used to this rapid rate of change. The best solution for that fear is really having an understanding of where the world is going. Part of the mission of the book is to give people a clear vision of the future that these converging technologies are enabling. For most of the case, this is an incredible win for consumers, an uplifting of abundance in the world, where ultimately these exponential converging technologies are helping to meet the need of every man, woman, and child on the planet. That makes for a world that is, in my ... in our mind, I would say safer and better for humanity, so this is a hopeful book that builds the case for creating a better world for tomorrow.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really a roadmap into how money is going to change in the future and, most importantly, how we can and frankly need to be ready. A lot of this is not just you guys talking. There's a lot of scientific research here and a lot tying in technology to money and how it's going to specifically impact our lives. You're going to give us a preview, and you brought with you a list of different ways that all these things are going to affect money and our lives. Let's start with the first thing on your list. This is about our approach to retirement and longevity.

Peter Diamandis:
Sure, let me jump in there, because it's an area that I spend a lot of time investing in and time building companies around, and it's the notion that we're going to be heading to a world in which we're not dying at age 70 or 80, that we're living a healthy lifespan to 90, to 100, to 110, eventually 120. In our book, The Future is Faster Than You Think, we have an entire chapter on healthcare and a chapter on longevity that tracks these different technologies, billions of dollars flowing into them. If you think about it, there's no larger business opportunity than extending the healthy human lifespan. So, I think this is a reality and I think people need to start thinking about, "Do I have to save enough money to live to be 100 years old or 110 years old?" Because if you can have the aesthetics, the cognition and mobility at 100 that you had at 60, why wouldn't you want to? It's not about living in a wheelchair, it's about living a vibrant life. So, that's the first thing. We're going to live longer. We're going to live healthier, and we have to prepare for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such a great point. Let's move onto the second point. This is fascinating, demonetization, because this goes into things that we love, like travel, right, Steven?

Steven Kotler:
Yeah, so demonetization is essentially the removal of money from the equation. The simple example that we're all familiar with is the smartphone. So when Peter and I wrote the first book in the trilogy, [inaudible 00:05:30], we're calling the Exponential Mindset trilogy, with our latest book, The Future is Faster Than You Think is the third installment in. In Abundance, back when we started, we looked at all the technology that shows up for free, demonetized completely, in your smartphone. In 1980s prices, it was over a million dollars-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Steven Kotler:
In music players, in Encyclopedias, in GPS, and on and on and on. So, this is a million dollars worth of stuff that has been dematerialized. It doesn't exist anymore. It comes for free in your phone. This is ... Whenever technologies go exponential, one of the things that starts to happen almost automatically is they begin to demonetize, and this is going into every industry. Travel is a really radical example, both because we're seeing ... over the next 10 years, we're going to see technology such as the Hyperloop, which is high speed trains, maglev trains, 750 miles an hour, so suddenly San Francisco to LA is a 20-minute commute or Las Vegas to San Francisco is a 20-minute commute, which, by the way, totally changes the real estate picture and your local school metric and your dating pool and all that stuff, besides the point, but you've got five or six other technologies, autonomous cars, flying cars, rockets, et cetera.

Steven Kotler:
Then, you have avatars and virtual reality, which completely demonetizes travel. Now we already have avatars and virtual worlds, but if you can put on VR goggles and have an avatar attend a meeting that you need to attend and you've got haptic technology so you can shake hands with other people and be there, or you can have telepresence robots waiting for you that you sort of rent by the hour in your destination city and you can port your senses using VR into the robot and then send the robot onto stage to give a speech for you or whatnot. This sounds crazy far future, but Peter's company, the X Prize, it's [nepon 00:07:29], right, Peter?

Peter Diamandis:
It's all Nepon Airways, ANA Airlines, has basically said, "How do we displace the need for airplanes? How do you not put yourself in an aluminum tube and fly someplace?" They launched a $10 million dollar avatar X Prize. Can we build the avatars, like Steven was saying, then I can transport my consciousness, my senses, and my actions hundreds or thousands of miles away instead of flying in an airplane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, so cool. Let's talk about the investment opportunities angle here, because you say convergence means that future of financial investment opportunities can lie between industries and mashup markets. What does that mean?

Peter Diamandis:
It means that we have pure play investments before in a computer company or communications company or a healthcare company, but all of these things are beginning to blur, right? We're seeing Amazon all of a sudden going from a bookseller to a food company when it buys Whole Foods and it's now moving into healthcare and into finance. So, we're going to start to see companies that are blurring the lines between what have been traditional areas. A lot of the companies that are going to be crushing it are data-driven companies. Google and Amazon and Apple are in our home and they're going to start to play increasingly different roles. It was interesting that Tim Cook, we talk about this in The Future is Faster Than You Think. Tim Cook makes a statement like, "In the future, Apple is going to be best known for its impact on healthcare." Wow. So, we're going to start to see a lot of these blurred lines. So, when you are excited about investing in a particular industry or particular area, it's not going to be the traditional players. It's going to be a new set of players coming in from unpredictable adjacencies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which dovetails to your point that there's going to be a lot of new players in finance.

Steven Kotler:
There are going to be a lot of new players in finance and finance as a whole is going to radically change. We've seen this already. We've seen what AI did to finance. At this point, when there's height rating volume, for example, 90% of the trades on Wall Street are being made by computers at this point. That's just today and where we are, but to Peter's point, the advantage you get is data, right? The more data you have, the bigger understanding you have of markets. We'll see this in traditional finance. We're going to see this playing huge roles in insurance. We're going to see this show up in real estate. It's really going to transform the financial landscape. The first inklings of it, companies like IBM, lots in doing wealth management services, right? It's going to mean that people working in the finance space, creativity is going to become the most important skill going forward. This was not a skill 20 years ago you would have really associated with finance and now it's the key skill because everything else that can be automatized will probably be automatized.

Bobbi Rebell:
Insurance, it is going to radically change.

Peter Diamandis:
Insurance is going to change dramatically and we are going to go away from what was the old actuarial tables of, statistically, over a population of 100,000 people, here's the probability. That's not going to be the case. Now it's like, okay, this is specifically the probability for you, given the technology you're enabling, given the way you eat, exercise, and so forth, your genetics and such. We're going to insure you personally and we're going to work to keep you healthier longer, alive longer, fire free, theft free, and that's our job now. So, interesting change, which makes the world a better place, and people will want that kind of insurance over the "We'll pay you after the disaster occurred."

Steven Kotler:
The other thing I want to add to that is, of course with autonomous cars, car insurance as a category goes away. Right? If the cars are driving themselves and they don't crash, car insurance goes away or at least the risk, it shifts from the consumer, right? Google, with Waymo, [inaudible 00:11:33] with Waymo, they provide ... everybody who gets in the car automatically gets insurance because they're the one who controls the autonomous car, so that's another category that's going to disappear.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about artificial intelligence. How will this affect, for example, the everyday consumer, people buying stuff?

Peter Diamandis:
So, interestingly enough, we're all going to have a version of Jarvis from Iron Man. If you remember Jarvis, Tony Stark had this AI that was in his suit and in his home. He would talk to it and Jarvis would be like a personal, intelligent butler or assistant in this regard. We have the early versions of this with Amazon Echo. We have the early versions of that with Google Home and such, but one thing that's going to happen in the consumer world is that your AI's going to do your buying for you. If your AI is doing your buying for you of foods or consumer products in general, what's that do to advertising, right? If I'm not making the decisions anymore, you can throw all the ads at me you want, but my AI is actually looking at my genetics and the molecular makeup of the toothpaste and saying, "This toothpaste is better for you than this one. Everyone in your peer group, Peter, is buying this and enjoying it and it's cheaper, so I'm buying that for you." You get a new toothpaste and go, "Oh, I like this one better." Right? So the world becomes auto-magical.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it, because it can save a lot of money for consumers, and time and energy, to not have that decision making stress, because every decision is stress.

Steven Kotler:
Absolutely. These are parts of where the world is going, and not in 30 years or 20 years, this next decade, which is what we outlined in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last thing I want to go through is you say we're moving to a cashless future, to the surprise of, really, no one, I think. I think everyone kind of sees the writing on the wall with this one.

Steven Kotler:
Where it starts to get really interesting is, for example, Amazon Go. This is a cashierless checkout where you scan a QR code on your way into the store on your phone, you take the items off the shelf, sensors in the items notice that you've taken it, the AI cameras pick it up, and it's automatically deducted from your account, which is linked, too, in your cellphone and there's no more cash in the equation. This is ... Those stores are here. They're rolling out at scale over the next couple of years. I'm sure there are probably always going to be craft retail stores, like throwback stores. We still have [inaudible 00:13:50] and the chain here, but at convenience stores, at gas stations, at grocery stores, places we're already seeing automated checkout anyways, right? We're checking ourselves out and it's a pain in the butt, but now the hassle is gone. Obviously the savings for retail is enormous. There's no way to compete.

Bobbi Rebell:
What can the average person be doing to get ready for this future?

Peter Diamandis:
We put out something called Abundance Insider, which is a weekly email of how the world is getting more abundant and how to see this positive news. There are amazing books that Steven have written. Please read Abundance and Bold, which are the first two books in the Exponential Mindset series.

Steven Kotler:
Yeah, the only other thing I would add is, there's a human performance side of this, which I tend to work on the Flow Research Collective, so if you want to know what you can do in your own life to keep up in an accelerating world, the website for the flowresearchcollective.com will give you tons and tons of information there.

Advice, Authors, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guides, Money, Personal Finance, Retirement, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanPeter Diamandis, Steven Kotler, Technology, Money, Future, Retirement, Finance, Insurance, AI, Artificial Intelligence
Financial Grownup Guide: 3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup with Modern Frugality's Jen Smith
Financial Grownup Guide: 3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup with Modern Frugality's Jen Smith
FGG Jen Smith Instagram

Just in time for the holidays, Jen Smith, co-host of the Frugal Friends podcast and the author of the new book "Pay Off Your Debt For Good" joins us with her spending strategies so we can all shop like Financial Grownups.

3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup

  1. Focus on your habits

  2. Figure out what you value

  3. Let go of guilt and shame

Episode Links:

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Advice, Authors, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guides, Money, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanJen Smith, Modern Frugality, The Frugal Friends Podcast, Money, Personal Finance, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guide
Financial Grownup Guide: 5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income in the Gig Economy with Zina Kumok
Financial Grownup Guide: 5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income in the Gig Economy with Zina Kumok
FGG Zina Kumok Instagram

The gig economy is not going away anytime soon and that means we have a big challenge because a lot of us dong’ get steady paychecks. Freelance writer and personal finance expert Zina Kumok of ConsciousCoins.com shares her success strategies and more.

5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income

  • Make sure to have an Emergency Fund

  • Find the minimum amount you need to earn a month

  • Having extra money

  • Diversification

  • Increase your rates on a regular basis

Episode Links:

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Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Advice, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guides, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanZina Kumok, Financial Grownup, Conscious Coins, ConsciousCoins, Income, Money, Personal Finance
How to recover when your credit score is unfairly poisoned with Popcorn Finance's Chris Browning (Encore)
How to recover when your credit score is unfairly poisoned with Popcorn Finance's Chris Browning (Encore)
Chris Browning Instagram

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

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Advice, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Health + Fitness, Money, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanChris Browning, Popcorn Finance, medical bills, hospital, collection agency, Podcast, Personal Finance, Advice, Money
How her financial planner made more on her investments than she did with ZenBender author, and financial journalist, Stephanie Krikorian
How her financial planner made more on her investments than she did with ZenBender author, and financial journalist, Stephanie Krikorian
Stephanie Krikorian Instagram

Ghost writer Stephanie Krikorian trusted a financial planner with her investments after a big layoff a decade ago. But years later discovered blind trust was costing her, and learned to read the paperwork, and take grownup ownership of her money strategy.  


Stephanie's money story:

Steph Krikorian:
So, basically, I get laid off and I did two quick things. I refinanced while I still had a paycheck coming in, because rates were down and they hadn't been for awhile. I thought that was a smart thing to do. Secondly, I went to this financial planner and merged several 401ks, because I had been at several jobs and never really paid much attention to it. I always put in the max that I could, et cetera. But I thought, "This will help me move it, and then I can focus on finding a job or starting a business, whichever I'm going to do."

Steph Krikorian:
I remember meeting with this financial planner and asking a very specific question, "How are you paid?" My understanding when I left that meeting, and I interview people for a living, so I feel fairly confident I was given a certain answer and didn't make that mistake, but maybe I did, my understanding was the payment for the financial planner was based on money I made, so that if I made 10%, the financial planner was paid a percentage of that. So, I do all these things, and I am on my own little austerity program. I'm doing a single pump of shampoo. You can read about all the crazy things I did to not waste money while I was trying to, you know, make sure I didn't overspend. ,I was trying to stay on my budget. I invested. I knew I had to save. Even when there was no money coming in, even though I cut everything else out, I scraped together a certain amount of money.

Steph Krikorian:
So, in the meantime, I start going on the Zen Bender, because I start reading self-help books. I've reinvented myself. I start reading self-help books. I start getting obsessed-

Bobbi Rebell:
This is all because you're ghostwriting a lot of them too, so you're really immersing yourself in your material.

Steph Krikorian:
That's how it started. I really was immersing myself in the material, because everybody has a book idea, and then they say, "Oh, it's like the Suze Orman of such and such or the Marie Kondo of such and such." So, I was reading for research, but as I read, I also got a little obsessed, because I said, "Oh my God. There's all these fixes out there. I must have all these holes in my life to fill. I'm single. I'm thick around the middle, because everyone wants to lose a few pounds. I'm trying to figure out my career." So, I started grasping at all these things a little more than necessary, as per the research.

Steph Krikorian:
So, I take my eye off the ball of what I think I had set up with the financial planner, and I spend hoards of money on Reiki, and rainbow healers, and dating coaches. You know, I could've basically probably gone to law school instead and done something productive. But all of this time I think, "You know, I've made my budget. I'm following the rules. I'm being careful." But somewhere in all that mishmash, kind of the point of the Zen Bender was I lost a little bit of confidence. I stopped trusting my gut and I kind of took my eye off the ball of the important things and ceded a lot of power to these ... you know, this dating coach who's telling me, "You've got to wear high heels and have shiny hair in order to find a husband, because he'll think you're fertile, and he'll want to marry you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And probably very expensive heels too.

Steph Krikorian:
[inaudible 00:06:24] I got $200 a pop, but if you do five, then of course X,Y,Z is going to happen. The doors will open up. I had started treating my business like a business. Even though it's writing, I formed an LLC. I have a lawyer. I outsource things like copy editing, because I wanted to only do the work that was mission-critical. So, I was making enough money. It wasn't like I was on my credit card doing this stuff. You know? There were lean years the first couple of years. Then I started getting on my feet and I started making enough money.

Steph Krikorian:
Somewhere in there I have a call from my financial planner. Also, in fairness, if I step back and look at it, she gave me a couple of pieces of advice which were, "Sell all your stock from your first job," which was General Electric stock, which at the time was not a good suggestion, and, "Dump this apartment, even at a loss." I disregarded both pieces of advice. I was not going to dump that apartment at a loss. I was going to make my payments, and I was going to save it, that investment. So, I didn't take that warning sign, you know? That should have made me a little nervous, and it didn't, because I knew better. I'd worked in financial news, like you, and I knew that wasn't right. Every year I'm putting together the maximum I can scrape in and put in, but nothing's really moving in the fund. I'm in one of those funds as you age, you know, with the term and the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
The target date fund, which sometimes have double fees. Sometimes those can be very expensive.

Steph Krikorian:
Right. It didn't seem to be doing a lot, and I thought, "Oh, it must just be the time, you know. Whatever." So, we have this call and she suggests, since I've reached a certain milestone, she explains there's this, you know, almost like a fund of funds with these various ETFs in the same thing. It sort of ages as you go and it's really something to consider. I said, "Okay. Great. I guess so. Sure." She said, "And the fee is so much less. It's almost half,| or whatever. I say, "Oh, what's the fee been generally, because it shouldn't ... you know, we haven't made a lot of money, so it couldn't possibly be very high." She tells me the percentage, and I do the math, and I get furious.

Steph Krikorian:
I'm like, "Wait a minute. You're charging more out of my fund than I'm depositing every year. You should have seen that." You know, she said, "Well, I don't keep track of who's putting in more or who's not." I'm like, "That's your single job. That's like your only job, to be ... Maybe you should've stopped and said, 'Hey. I don't think you need to be in here. Just go to Fidelity and buy a fund.'" I was mad at her, but honestly I was more mad at myself, because the one thing I probably should have spent the time on was understanding what was going on there. But I got so lost in the haze of all the chaos and life change that was happening, that I trusted the professional to handle it, and I don't think ... She didn't do anything negligent or anything like that. She did what she told me she would do. It's just I didn't double check. I think you have to stay on top of these things, because the single most important thing is your money, period. It really is.

 
“Nobody reads the fine print. So you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check in and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. ”
 

Stephanie’s money lesson:

Steph Krikorian:
Double check, double check, double check, and then quarterly, when you have those check-ins, check, and maybe you're smarter than the experts. Maybe if you're in a single fund, investigate the other ways to invest in that single fund, so that you don't pay the load that you're paying a financial planner,` who has much wealthier clients to make money off of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was she a fiduciary? Do you know? Was she a CFP? Was she a fiduciary?

Steph Krikorian:
Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Steph Krikorian:
Yeah. It was a big firm and all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She did her job.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she informed you. You just didn't hear I guess is what you're saying.

Steph Krikorian:
I misunderstood at the beginning and I was an early client.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a financial journalist.

Steph Krikorian:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness, Stephanie. What hope is there for everybody else?

Steph Krikorian:
I know, and I wonder. I was an early client of hers, and she was just starting out. I liked her, because she was woman and she was new, and people were giving me a chance, and I gave her a chance. I still don't regret that, but I think, you know, these things aren't transparent. You can't tell how much you pay. In fairness to anybody, it's hard to tell what percentage you're paying in these things. So, I think you have to ask those questions regularly, because things also change, and nobody reads the fine print. So, you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check-in, and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. I check my bank account to see ... You know, my bank account got hacked. If I didn't check as frequently as I did, I would never have known. So, you-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Steph Krikorian:
It did. Yeah. They had my name. They had my bank account. Must've been off a piece of paper or a bill. They were trying to get in there. They didn't get anything. But, so, you have to always check. Nothing to do with your money should ever be on autopilot, even paying your bills. You know, you can miss a bill, because autopilot is not the way to go, and that's for your financial planning and your daily accounts. You got to keep a tally.

 
“Walking solves all my problems… It helps creatively, it helps anxiety.. and saves some money. ”
 

Stephanie's everyday money tip:

Steph Krikorian:
So, you can get really caught up into these things. The average price for any of these sessions is $200. It's very easy to get-

Bobbi Rebell:
For what? I'm sorry. $200 for what?

Steph Krikorian:
Like Reiki, the astrologist, acupuncture. $200 seems to be the going rate of 2019, and buying five packs is very easy to get caught up. I would say this. Try anything, because there's a placebo effect or you find it inspiring. Try anything once. Don't buy the five packs. Just try it and see, and then step away and think of it. Don't get caught up in it. But more importantly, what I found, after all of the sessions, and all of the coaches, and thousands of dollars on a dating coach, I'm still single.

Steph Krikorian:
All the diets I tried and paid for and I think of how much per pound I've spent trying to lose the same 5, 10 pounds. Go for a walk, and then go for another walk, and then walk for more, longer, longer, longer. Walking solves all my problems, and it took me ... I knew that at the beginning, and then I didn't figure it out until the end, but it helps creatively. It helps anxiety. It does the same trick as some of this other stuff does, and it helps you work out, and it's good for your health, and so do that. That's my suggestion. Save some money. Do everything that you want to do, but just once in a while. Don't go on a Zen Bender, like I did, and hit it all hard, all at once, all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing advice, and it's so true about walking. I get all my best ideas when I'm walking. It's also a great way to socialize, instead of going somewhere and spending money on food that will cost you money and weight.

Steph Krikorian:
What was the scariest thing to write? Oh, a lot of it was scary. It set out to be a book on humor, you know, a humor book on all these crazy things I tried, and then as I wrote it, I'm like thinking, "Well, why did I do that?" I think a couple of things, quickly, how much weight has held me back in life. You know, we all wish we were a little thinner I think. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Me.

Steph Krikorian:
I think-

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm raising my hand.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly. And we all wish that we could drop a few pounds, and I spent a little bit too much time obsessing about that. That was sort of disappointing, and I was surprised I was able to put that on the page, because I really don't like to talk about it. I think being single, you know, I kind of likened the dating at ... I'm 50 now, but this whole book took place in my 40s. It's like shopping at Marshall's or T.J.Maxx. Everything is picked over. It's like seconds right now. So, that was a lot for me to talk about. You know, I had a hard time with that.

Steph Krikorian:
The realization I came to through writing and through discussing it is that after doing the Marie Kondo, I Marie Kondo'd, the living crap out of my house, including my freezer, did the doors open up? I don't know, but I learned to say no to things that didn't bring me joy. I don't think that was her intent in the book. I think that was, as interesting as ... It wasn't a hard to write about that, but it was an interesting learning experience for me that that takeaway kind of came through the process of trying to be funny about folding my socks, rolling my socks a certain way, that all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have a hard time saying no to things. Now, I'm a little better at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all working on that. I think that's a big theme these days is sometimes it's okay to just decline an invitation, even if you don't have a conflict. Just say, "I'm sorry. I can't make it," and don't elaborate.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly.

 
“After doing the Marie Kondo..  I learned to say no to things that didn’t bring me joy.. that takeaway kind of came through the process of rolling my socks a certain way that I realized I have a hard time saying no to things.”
 

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one.:

Buy what you want if you want to be trying things. That's always all good. But when Stephanie talks about buying the five packs, that applies to pretty much any upsell that you get in life. Yes. You do get a better price per item, but you also get more items than you want or need.

Financial grownup tip number two:

If you aren't sure that you understand how someone controlling your money gets paid, keep asking until you are beyond 100% sure. Stephanie is educated and smart and was literally writing about money for her job, but she made assumptions that were not correct.

As a financial grownup, I love that she takes ownership that maybe she didn't understand what she thought she did. It can happen to any of us, if it can happen to Stephanie. Read, and reread, and then, as Stephanie recommends, go do regular check-ins, as she now does, and of course be careful with automation. It is a great tool for regular bills and such, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be checking as well. How are you doing on this front? Do you understand how people or companies that hold your money ore paid? Is free really free if there are maybe commissions or fees in there that you may not know about. Maybe they're disclosed in very tiny print, because if something is truly free, well, then how is the company making money? You need to ask what is going on on the other side.

Episode Links:

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Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Investing, Journalists, Money, Personal Finance, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanStephanie Krikorian, Financial Planner, Invest, Investing, Investing Tips, investing advice, ZenBender, Author, Money, money lesson
Financial Grownup Guide - The biggest money mistakes financial grownups are making and how to avoid them - with Josh Jalinski, author of the Retirement Reality Check. 
Financial Grownup Guide - The biggest money mistakes financial grownups are making and how to avoid them - with Josh Jalinski, author of the Retirement Reality Check. 
FGG Josh Jalinski Instagram

Find out the biggest money mistakes even financial grownups are making, and how to avoid them with Josh Jalinski, aka the Financial Quarterback and author of the new book “Retirement Reality Check: How to Spend your Money and Still Leave an Amazing Legacy”

The biggest money mistakes financial grownups are making and how to avoid them:

  • Need to be more tax smart

  • Risk averse

  • Holistic plan

  • Not in the market enough

  • Insurance

Episode Links:

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Financial Grownup Guide: Top new money books for grownups right now (August)
Financial Grownup Guide: Top new money books for grownups right now (August)
August Money Books Instagram

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include The Startup Squad by Brian Weisfeld and Nicole Kear, Grown and Flown: How to support your teen, stay close as a family and raise independent adults which is by Mary Dell Harrington and Lisa Heffernan, And then finally The Essential First-Time Home Buyers book: How to buy a house, Get a Mortgage and Close a Real Estate deal by Judy Dutton and Realtor.com editors.

Some ground rules:

There will be only positive comments. Because why waste your time telling you about something I don’t think is worth your time. 

Also - we limit our selections to books written by authors that appear on the podcast. In most cases they will have already appeared- so you can then go back and listen to their episode if you want to learn more. Occasionally, the episode will be in the future - so hopefully you will subscribe so you don’t miss it. 

Here are 3 books I truly enjoyed in the past month!

Book #1

The Startup Squad - which is aimed at kids but I will tell you it hits on themes and lessons many adults in business will truly benefit from.

Here’s what I liked about it:

  1. Don’t be fooled by the illustration on the cover or the fact that this is about a lemonade stand. This is a sophisticated book disguised as a kids book. The book covers a lot of territory.

  2. They get into extreme detail- for example: the cost of ingredients, pricing strategy and profit margin, organization and planning ahead, design and branding, the importance of selecting the right location to attract target customers- and of course how to figure out who your target customers are in the first place.

  3. The book addresses the more human issues associated with a business- including dealing with imposter syndrome, competition, and interpersonal relationships among team members.

Who is this book for?

This book is of course great for kids but I strongly recommend it for aspiring entrepreneurs. It covers all the bases. I also recommend parents read it and then discuss with their kids. Investors will also benefit because they can learn more about how to identify a business that is setting itself up for success, and the skillset to look for in founders. There are so many layered nuances to this book that it really creates a framework for understanding exactly what goes into a successful startup. I loved this this book and am thrilled it is the first in a series.

Book #2

Moving on the the next life stage- the teenage years. Here we have Grown and Flown: How to support your teen, stay close as a family and raise independent adults which is by Mary Dell Harrington and Lisa Heffernan,who are the founders of the #1 website for parents of teens and young adults. People magazine named them 2 of 25 women changing the world.

Here’s what I liked about it:

  1. While there are endless resources for new parents, the information overload thins out substantially as kids get older. But in this age of extended childhood and delayed adulthood, we all need more guidance

  2. While the authors have a lot of great advice, the book’s heart and depth comes from it’s broad sourcing of contributors. You feel like you have an army of advisors bringing you information you were either looking for- didn’t know you needed.

  3. They go there. Topics include the expected on family life and happiness, college admissions and academics. But they also tackle, love, sex and the ultimate taboo- mental health.. and yes even money. For example: in the chapter on college admissions, the authors point out the importance of understanding the financial costs- the sticker price, meaning the listed tuition, is not the whole story- or even close. Financial aid letters can be misleading And to make sure you understand the average number of years it takes a student to graduate- it is not always four. An example of the advice: Don’t let a small price differential keep you from choosing the school that is the best fit - but that debt also matters a lot and needs to be factored in.

Who is this book for?

Primarily it is for parents of kids ages 15 -25- the teenage and college years. But as the parent of a 12 year old- I can say it’s never too early to learn about these years and if anything it will make you appreciate the simpler times of younger kids.

Book #3

The third book I am recommending this month is The Essential First-Time Home Buyers book: How to buy a house, Get a Mortgage and Close a Real Estate Deal

Here’s what I liked about it:

  1. It is to the point. This book is going to get you the information you need, and is a great compliment to the realtor.com website- it is self contained and an easy shortcut for first time homeowners.

  2. It has fun and fascinating (and sometimes reality check) trivia. Did you know: the average in state move costs $2300? Moving out of state averages $4300!

  3. It cuts through the BS with recurring “myths” like the the fact that a new home doesn’t need to be inspected- or that you can’t buy a home if you have bad credit- even a score under 600. . The editors also tell you the truth that a human often won’t. For example: did you know that your appraiser works for the lender- not you. My favorite: 5 things never to say at a real estate closing.

Who is this book for?

Clearly people who are buying their first home. It’s a small book and you can literally carry it with you when you look at homes rather than fumble to look stuff up on your phone. But also current home owners can benefit- as can renters - because in the end every time we decide to rent or stay in our home- that is a decision made that should be done in comparison to the benefits or drawbacks of owning a home. This book lays out what you need to know- so that you can be deliberate in your decision whether or not to buy a home or upgrade or downsize to a new home

Episode Links:

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Authors, Entrepreneurs, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup Guides, Investing, Personal Finance, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanBooks, Money Books, Money, Financial Grownup
How to find a mentor, get over imposter syndrome and make more money with Clifford Swan Investment Counselors Chairman and CEO Linda Davis Taylor
How to find a mentor, get over imposter syndrome and make more money with Clifford Swan Investment Counselors Chairman and CEO Linda Davis Taylor
Linda Davis Taylor Instagram

Linda Davis Taylor looked like she had it all, but wanted to make more money. An unexpected meeting with the man who became her mentor took her out of her comfort zone, and into a role that would catapult her into a field where she made her mark, and inspired others to follow in her footsteps.

In Linda's money story you will learn:


We are actually the first investment advisory firm that was founded in the country, believe it or not, in 1915. Company's roots go back in this community over 100 years which makes it so much fun to work now with families who are in their fourth generation. We can see the 90 year olds, the 60 year olds, the 40 year olds and the 10 year olds in one meeting and it's just really rewarding to be in such a great community.

And community is really important. In fact a member of your community at the college you were working at 25 years ago is the focus of the money story that you are going to tell us, and it started with an appointment that was really you thought about his future, but it turned out to be about your future. Tell us your money story, Linda.

That's exactly right. This great gentleman who I knew a little bit then who became a lifelong mentor. I'll tell you more later, came into my office I thought to talk about the fact that he was retiring from his firm, and he looked me in the eye and he said, "I'm here because I want to change your trajectory and I want you to come and take over the leadership role in my firm," which was an investment firm which now is Clifford Swan.

Wow, and what were you doing? Explain more about what you were doing at the time and what your mindset was, because you weren't looking to make a change.

No. In fact I said to him, "Mr. Swan, I barely know the difference between a stock and the bond. How would I ever become a leader in the investment firm?"

I was in the higher ed environment, I'd been there for 25 years. I was a college admissions dean, I worked with all kinds of young kids going to college then I moved into philanthropy. I was working at this awesome women's college, where his wife was a graduate, and I was talking to women about philanthropy, which of course is connected with money, but in no way did I have the aspiration to think that I could make a switch from education to finance, and that's what he came in my office to talk to me about.

Was it a question of self-doubt, imposter syndrome? Talk about the gears in your mind at that point? What were you thinking?

I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me, but what I realized is that I really wanted to make more money, and he was the person who made me think, "That's great. That's not only okay, that's terrific, and it's great to have an aspiration about money if you're a woman."

How much of your feeling that you wanted to make more money were you holding back, you think, because you were a woman? Were you still tied to the often self-imposed rules that we put on ourselves?

I was the daughter of an entrepreneur, but I was told at that phase and that part of the country it's fine for you to be in education or maybe be a nurse, but you can't go into the family business because that's not what girls do.

Wow. Okay, so what clicked in your mind that you said, "You know what? Maybe I am going to do this."

I thought to myself, "If I don't go out of this office and follow this incredible opportunity ... This man has literally climbed into my office and said, 'How about do this?' If I don't do this now, I don't know if I'll have that opportunity again."

So I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step.

All right, so what happened? You just quit and left and started ...? What was it like starting?

It was very challenging because I did not have on paper the skills to do that job, so I entered then the financial world, mostly men, they thought, "What is this woman from a college doing here?" So it took me a lot of determination but also his support to be able to make that successful transition.

Having that male mentor, this goes ... I mean, we talk about a lot the importance of men to get women and help women to achieve what they can achieve. But it's not just for women, men play a very important role in this, and the fact that he had the faith in you and pushed you to do what you were capable of I think is important to note.

Absolutely, and probably true in many fields. At the time, this was 20 years ago, it was absolutely true in the field of finance that without a male successful financial entrepreneur, I don't think it could've happened and someone as determined, as passionate as this particular man who became my champion in that transition.

What I now know is that 20 years later, I see myself as a financial mentor, particularly to young women, but he was that to me, every week. And he retired from the firm after six months and he was not there day-to-day, but every week for the next 20 years we had breakfast and what he was doing gradually, over time, is teaching me, teaching me not so much how to be a CEO, but teaching me what it really means to have competence and confidence about money and to be aspirational about it, and I realized that a mentoring is not about one or two meetings, but it's about long-term really being consistent and building in that kind of, again, competence and confidence.

He passed away about a year ago. I miss him every day, but when I think about him I think of this Mark Twain quote that's very simple, and it said, "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambition, because small people always do that. The really great make you feel that you too can be great."

And I think we all need that. I think a lot of women need that. He did that for me, made me feel competent and confident about having those kind of aspirations, and my dreams and my ideas and my talents were really on target. I just needed to take it up and do it. So he became a lifelong mentor and now I think it's my turn to do that in whatever way I can.

“I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me but what I realized was that I wanted to make more money”

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

Find a financial mentor. You just have to find one. I think it's still very, very hard, particularly for women, to understand what their own fears or lack of confidence or what they feel about money. The financial industry does not make it easy to understand it, and that financial mentor, not just a mentor in general but someone who we can really be honest with and can tell us things like Mr. Swan did, don't have a lot of debt. The moment you get out of debt is when you really start being financially secure. Things about being careful with your spending, all of these things over time, find a financial mentor.

“I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step” 

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:


So my big one is, don't purchase any snacks on the go when you're thinking about those snacks, those extra drinks. It just adds unneeded calories frankly, and it wastes money, so no snacks on the go.

Very well said. Could you give some examples of the temptations that you pass up on? Was there anything that happened that changed your mind that you had an aha moment about this, or have you always been this way?

In the morning before your commute it's tempting to go buy coffee, tea or snack of your choice. When you're in an airport, walk on by, don't get that stuff and take it on the plane. When it's late at night in a hotel, stay out of the minibar, no potato chips, no chocolate chip cookies. Those are the things that tempt me and I just have to say, "No, I don't need it. It's going to be five extra dollars on my bill and 500 extra calories."

“Mentoring is not about one or two meetings. It is about long term really being consistent and building in .. competence and confidence.”

In My Take you will learn:


Here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one: Find mentors early and often. For Linda, she had one that made a huge difference. That doesn't always happen. For most of us it may be several in different stages of our careers and for different purposes.

When I wrote How to be a Financial Grownup, I went on what I now call my mentor-ter, asking successful people that I admire to just meet with me and talk about themselves. The information that I learned was life-changing and it became the foundation for my book and now this podcast.

Financial Grownup tip number two: Linda's everyday money tip is one of my favorites ever because so many of us, and yeah, I'm looking in the mirror, so many of us cave to those little treats especially when we are traveling. So here's one thing that I've learned to do that at least cuts off one major super unnecessary tip and that is, if you're traveling and you're buying food somewhere, you don't necessarily need to buy that bottle of water. If you're buying something else, it's a little weird if you go up if you're not buying anything else, but if you're already buying food, it's kind of okay to go up to the counter and say, "Oh, can I just get a cup with ice and water?"

Most of the time they're pretty happy to give it to you, and especially if you have a kid with you, forget it, they will definitely do it. So try it. You'll usually save five bucks on a bottle of water that is so unnecessary to pay for.

Episode Links:

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Authors, Business, Career, Financial Grownup, Money, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell Kaufmanmentors, Business Mentor, Money Mentor, Imposter Syndrome, Money, Linda Davis Taylor
1.2 million reasons to diversify your investments with GoalSetter’s Tanya Van Court (Encore)
1.2 million reasons to diversify your investments with GoalSetter’s Tanya Van Court (Encore)
Tanya Van Court Instagram

If you are a fan of Shark Tank- our guest may look familiar. We here at the Financial Grownup podcast were so excited to see Tanya Van Court and her company, GoalSetter on the show recently trying to make a deal with the sharks.

At 29 years old Tanya Van Court thought she had more than a million dollars on hand to change the world and live the life of her dreams. Until it vanished in a few hours. 

Tanya's money story:

Tanya Van Court:
I was 29 years old, it was in the first tech boom where all of the Silicon Valley companies had stock that was just rising uncontrollably. I happened to be one of the first 200 employees at a company in Silicon Valley that was doing extraordinarily well.

Bobbi Rebell:
What company?

Tanya Van Court:
The company was Covac Communications. Before any of the telephone companies or cable companies were offering high-speed data I had a great job, a meaningful job, and I had a lot of stock that went along with that job.

Tanya Van Court:
I got all this stock in Covac, and some of the stock I couldn't cash out yet, but a lot of the stock I could cash out. I could have sold that stock and went and diversified my portfolio and bought mutual funds, or invested it in many, many stocks, as opposed to having all of my eggs sitting in one proverbial basket. But I didn't, because it was literally the first stock I had ever known or owned-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's just back it up, so you were given, as part of your compensation, shares in this company. Did it go public? Where was this stock? Explain exactly what you were given, and how it was valued, and did you have opportunities to sell it?

Tanya Van Court:
Yes, I had opportunities to sell the stock, many opportunities. The company had gone public, and so I had the opportunity to sell the stock when the company went public, I had the opportunity ... not exactly when it went public, because we had a certain window. But that window had passed, and so I had many opportunities to sell the stock, but I had no idea that I should sell the stock.

Tanya Van Court:
The stock kept going up, and I thought, "Wow, this is great. The stock just doubled in the past six months. I should just hold onto it, and I guess it will double again."

Bobbi Rebell:
At its peak what was the value of this stock, and how old were you at that time?

Tanya Van Court:
I was 29, and the value of the stock at its peak was about 1.2 million dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
At that time how did you feel?

Tanya Van Court:
You know, I was so excited, because since I came from a household of two parents who were elementary school educators, all I ever wanted to do was make a difference in the world. I knew that having that 1.2 million dollars in my late 20s was going to enable me to make different choices and different life decisions to help people and to give back instead of just working in corporate America and doing things that were kind of interesting to me, but weren't impactful to other people. I felt free, Bobbi. I felt really free and empowered.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're 29 years old, you have stock that on paper is worth 1.2 million dollars. What happened then?

Tanya Van Court:
The big Dotcom bust happened. Literally in hours stock just started to tank for company, after company, after company. I watched the stock literally go from being in the teens, each share was trading in the teens, to trading for less than a dollar. When I say less than a dollar it went from the teens to like .50 cents in the course of a few hours. Every bit of that 1.2 million was wiped away in a matter of hours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Tanya Van Court:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel then?

Tanya Van Court:
Then I felt stupid, I felt deflated, I felt panicked, depressed, it was almost as if you had 1.2 million dollars sitting in your living room, and you just left the front door to your house open and walked out and went to the park, right?

Tanya Van Court:
It was, like, wait a minute. I had been living this life and treating this money so casually, as if it would always be there.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you say, it was the dotcom bust. This was happening to everyone?

Tanya Van Court:
It was happening to everyone, and it's interesting, because while I suffered a tremendous loss with that stock that I could've diversified, what I still had was ... I still had a home that I owned, I had bought a condo, and I still had that. What I found with many of my colleagues who experienced that same bust, is that they had actually leveraged their stock to buy lots of other things, so they bought cars, and they bought multiple houses.

Tanya Van Court:
Because they had borrowed against that stock, once the crash happened, they then had to pay back the money that they had borrowed by going and selling off all of their assets, including the assets that they had come to the company with.

Tanya Van Court:
If they came to the company with a big million-dollar home in Silicon Valley that was passed down to them from their parent, or that they had worked really hard in a previous company to be able to buy, now all of a sudden, they not only lost all of their stock, they lost every other asset that they had, because they had to payback loans that they had made against their stock.

Tanya’s money lesson:

Oh my gosh. Diversify, diversify, diversify. Don't ever put all of your money into one basket. I don't care if that basket is a real estate basket, and you have found a hot, booming real estate market that's working really well for you, and so you're, like, "Let me just buy it."

More apartments here in X place, or more houses in X place, don't do that. Diversify your money. If you have found that your golden goose is a stock that is doing really well, don't do that. Diversify your money. You really have to weigh and measure your risk, and think about the worst case scenarios. If that particular company, if something happens to that company, if something happens to that area of town that you're investing in, and every asset you have goes under water, what happens to your entire portfolio?

Tanya's everyday money tip:

My everyday money tip is actually a money tip that kind of goes back to my time in college. I would always watch people who ... I don't happen to drink, but I would watch people who would do progressives. Where they went from one bar to another, or one restaurant to another, and progressively partied from one place to the next. Like, the party would follow them. Like, a group of people would go and they'd hang out in one place, and they'd do that for 20 minutes, and then they'd go and hang out at another place.

I thought, "Wouldn't that be fun if we did that just with our friends, and did it in order to swap and exchange stuff that we no longer needed at our respective homes." Look, we all look in our homes and we go, "There are 10 things here that I don't use anymore, that I don't need." If you happen to have kids there may be things that your kids don't use anymore, or your kids don't need. If you happen to be a sports fan there may be equipment that you don't use anymore. "Hey, I'm not golfing as much as I used to anymore."

There are things in all of our homes that we don't want or we don't need, and so it's a great way of getting together with five or six friends, scheduling it on a Saturday, and going to each other's houses where you put everything that you don't want in your living room, and it becomes a virtual shopping spree.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love, first of all, that it's social, and I love, also, it's always delicate, because when you want to gift to somebody something that maybe you don't need anymore it's an awkward thing to give them something that you don't want. Because it's kind of like, "Oh, you're giving me your leftovers." But if you just put it there and they can just decide to take it, then it takes away that sort of negativity and makes it a positive thing.

Tanya Van Court:
It absolutely does. I think it makes it a positive thing for everyone, like, you're super happy to get rid of it, but they're super happy to get it.

Financial Grownup tip #1:

One things Tanya mentioned that stood out is that, while she lost money that she had on paper, I know it still hurts a lot, others had leveraged against their stockings and lost so much more. In addition to her advice to diversify, we also want to be very careful when borrowing against actual assets. Do not over leverage.


Financial Grownup tip #2:

This holiday season take it a step further than what Tanya was talking about. Think carefully about the physical stuff that you are buying for other people, not just children. Unwanted gifts are a total waste of money. There are so many new ways that technology is allowing us to give differently. Apps like Goalsetter are great, especially for kids that have too much stuff. But when you want to send a physical gift, and sometimes this is even for business purposes, there are new services, like, GiftNow. That's my personal new favorite that I'm obsessed with.

Basically, the way that one works is that instead of a boring gift certificate you virtually send someone a specific gift from a retailer to their email, so you don't need their physical address, you don't have to send them an email asking where should I send this, who will receive it, blah, blah, blah. It opens in a virtual gift box, and they can select their size, so you don't have to be guessing. They can change the color, if you don't know what color they want. They can even exchange it all before it gets delivered, so you don't have the whole hassle of the return and all that stuff.

I just used it for my friends' baby's one year birthday. It was so great to not have to carry a gift to the party, not worrying about it getting lost in the pile, and to know that my friend could swap it out without me even knowing it, not worrying if she would hurt my feelings, if she didn't love the fabulous dress that I got her daughter.

Then again, you can never have too many little frilly little girl dresses, right? I'm sure it was a huge hit.

EPISODE LINKS

Check out Tanya's company GoalSetter here!

Tanya Van Court is on Shark Tank!

Follow Tanya!

Instagram: @tvancourt

Linked In: @Tanya Van Court

Twitter: @tvancourt

Follow Goalsetter!

Instagram: @goalsetterco

Twitter: @goalsetterco

Facebook: @goalsetterco

Learn more about GiftNow

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanTanya Van Court, Goalsetter, Saving Money, Stocks, Stock Market, Assets, Kids and Money, Holidays, regifting, Money
Oops, I did it again. Missing credit card payments with Good Money author Nathalie Spencer
Oops, I did it again. Missing credit card payments with Good Money author Nathalie Spencer
Nathalie Spencer Instagram White Border- CORRECTED.png

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here


Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Advice, Authors, Business, Millennial Superstars, Shopping, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursGuest UserNathalie Spencer, Good Money, Authors, Money, Credit Cards, credit score, Budgeting, Personal Finance, automatic payments
The really good reason The Long Game’s Lindsey Holden shared a bathroom with 40 people for 5 years
The really good reason The Long Game’s Lindsey Holden shared a bathroom with 40 people for 5 years
Lindsay Holden Instagram White Border (1).png

Serial entrepreneur Lindsey Holden, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of the personal finance app The Long Game, literally played the long game when she spent 5 years living in her family’s veterinary office, to pay off her student loans and build a solid financial foundation. 

In Lindsay’s money story you will learn:

-Why she lived at her family’s veterinary office for 5 years

-Some of the unique experiences she had and what, if anything she would do differently

-How to come up with creative solutions to financial problems

-Tips on how to pay off student debt

In Lindsay’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to stick to your convictions and deflect judgement when making personal money decisions

-Why Lindsay considers herself a minimalist spender

In Lindsay’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to leverage coupon codes using Google ads to get discounts on services like Uber and more.

In My Take you will learn:

-How using gamification can motivate you to save and encourage better money habits

-How to get the most out of a rewards programs

Bobbi and Lindsay also talk about:

-How Lindsay’s app The Long Game works

-Lindsay’s experiences as a serial entrepreneur

EPISODE LINKS

Uber

Google Adwords

Cryptocurrency

https://www.longgame.co/ 

Follow Lindsay!

Twitter @linzor1

Linked In @LindsayHolden


Follow Long Game 

Twitter: @LongGame

Instagram: @LongGameSavings

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lindsey Holden:
It's kind of like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson. And then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, hope that little teaser at the top got you curious. This story is one-of-a-kind. And it makes you think, what would you do to get yourself on solid financial footing if you had debt coming out of school? How far would you go? And for how long? And would you care what people thought?

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to everyone, and thank you for spending time with us. We keep it short here, around 15 minutes, flex time for podcasts. If you find value, the only payment that we ask is that you share it with friends, the ones you care about, the ones you want to live a richer life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Lindsey Holden. She is the CEO and founder of Long Game, which is a personal app that uses games and rewards to incentivize financial habits. All of us could use a little extra motivation. And Lindsey was certainly motivated to get her financial life in order. Great story, my friends. Here is Lindsey Holden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Holden, you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the Long Game. You're certainly in it for the long haul. This is not even your first company.

Lindsey Holden:
Yeah, we built a financial app, so we're an FDIC insured savings account. That have games on top, and you can win up to a million dollars on our app for saving your own money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's awesome. Let's talk about your money story, because that has to do with building a base to now have the kind of success that you're seeing. You kind of took a step back at one point, to make sure you have that firm foundation, and it had to do with sharing a bathroom with 40 people for about five years? Am I getting that right?

Lindsey Holden:
Yes you are. Let me tell you a little more about that. After leaving college, I had a graduate degree. I had also, major student loans, like a lot of people today. And, I had a job offer in San Francisco, which is a very expensive place to live, and my finances are tight. My father owns a veterinary hospital in San Francisco. So I decided to move into a veterinary hospital, in a room in the back, where I did share a bathroom with 40 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain more. How exactly did that work? Were there 40 people living there?

Lindsey Holden:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't think so.

Lindsey Holden:
It was a place of work. Essentially, my bathroom was also shared by the people that work there. And there're specific hours, obviously, where it was much more comfortable to take a shower or whatever it was. But it was kind of a silly thing, but it was a really long period of my life. I had lived there from, I'm embarrassed to say, five years, to pay off my student loans, and get a good start on my career. But there're a lot of silly little things, when you're there. Because you end up being part of a community in the place that you live.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, like what?

Lindsey Holden:
I lived in a room in the back of the hospital, and we had a mouse infestation. Mice, they moved into my room. I was like, "Well, we have so many cats here." So I went downstairs and basically said, "Hey, can I borrow a cat for a minute?" And they're obviously like, "No, you cannot. You cannot take a cat."

Bobbi Rebell:
I thought they were going to say yes.

Lindsey Holden:
I know, me too. There's like a boarding cat, that wants to do some work here.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually accomplished quite a bit, because you did pay off your student loans.

Lindsey Holden:
Exactly, yeah. There's a lot of expectations around starting your career, and having this life that you've always imagined. I think it's really important to be practical, and not to be afraid to have creative solutions, and just develop the foundation that you need to build a life that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things you did, besides not paying rent, to pay off those loans, and form that foundation? So you could go and be an entrepreneur?

Lindsey Holden:
Paying off loans is absolutely huge. Most people today, that are graduating, have student loans, about $38,000 on average. So, to build a lifestyle that you're living well within your means, when you get that first job, is just really important.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things that you did? So you lived rent-free. Were you changing the kinds of foods that you ate? Did you go out less with your friends? What other things helped you achieve that goal?

Lindsey Holden:
I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to things, so I wasn't spending too much on extra things, and trying to really optimize my life in that way. I think that's basically a mindset and an attitude that you can get in, that's really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Holden:
The takeaway is that maybe it's not cool to move in with your parents or whatever, but don't let shame be the driver in this. I think it's ridiculous. The way to really live a cool life is to be an individual, and be responsible for the financial life that you want to live.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever get criticized? Or did you feel like people judged you?

Lindsey Holden:
Not criticized, but it's like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life, as you can imagine. But I just owned it because it was something that, I really care about building the foundation that you need to have the career that you want. And the people that love you, really start to think that's cool too.

Lindsey Holden:
I've had flowers delivered to the front desk there, before. So all the people that work there, just knew my social life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your every day money tip. You have one of the most creative ways I have ever heard of, to really leverage reward codes.

Lindsey Holden:
This one's fun. You know, there're a lot of referral programs out there. When you're playing on the internet a lot, you find creative ways to use these. And one of the things that I did when I was living at veterinary hospital was to run Google AdWords against my Uber code. This can be done with any other referral program, but essentially, the link that you're using is your referral link. And then, you're able to get the money from the referral, which ended up being credits for Uber. It was just a fantastic way to get some free rides around the city.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about the Long Game. So, as I mentioned earlier, this is not your very first venture. You're an experienced entrepreneur. Tell us more about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
Like I said, Long Game is a gamified financial app. We're trying to make banking into a wonderful, joyous experience. And we do that through use of games. A lot of those games are games of chance, where you can win up to a million dollars. But you can also win cryptocurrency in our app. We're always talking to our users and finding out what rewards they want to see in our app. And then using those to help people build a financial foundation that they need.

Bobbi Rebell:
So specifically, how does it work?

Lindsey Holden:
So you download an app, where Long Game, obviously on Google Play and the App Store. You get a FDIC insured savings account. Then, as you save in that savings account, we reward you with games. And you can choose which game you'd like to play. Some of our games are instant win, some of them are a weekly drawing. But they're all giving you a chance where you can win cash. And, the more you save, the more games you can play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come up with this?

Lindsey Holden:
It came from an idea that's called Prize-Linked Savings. It's usually run by financial institutions, or governments, actually, for bonds. But, it's offline, you basically deposit in an account, and there's a monthly raffle, generally. So we've taken that idea, and brought it into an app form, and made it much more engaging and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us more about the future. I know you're always coming up with new games. What can we expect to see next?

Lindsey Holden:
Not only are we coming up with new games, new rewards, all the time, new characters in our app. We're also adding financial products. So, Long Game hopes to be the financial hub that can help you with all your financial needs, in a rewarded way. So you can imagine us later, online banking, letting you pay down your loans, and that sort of thing. And then giving you rewards for completing those actions.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest prize that anyone has won?

Lindsey Holden:
It's a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
A thousand dollars is the most you've given away?

Lindsey Holden:
A lot of people have won a thousand dollars, actually. We've given away over a hundred thousand dollars to-date.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, great. Tell us where people can find out more about you and about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
You can find out more about us on LongGame.co. You can download Long Game in the Google Play store, and the App Store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, to follow you on all your socials?

Lindsey Holden:
On Twitter, I'm @linzor1. And you can find me, Lindsey Holden on the rest of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much Lindsey. This was amazing.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that was a genius money tip there. Super original for sure. DM me if you try it, and let me know how it goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Apps that use gamification to motivate you to adopt better financial habits, are always a good thing. In addition to, of course, checking out the Long Game, some other popular ones are Beeminder. It forces users to make a commitment to a financial goal, and to hit milestones. Now, if you don't hit them, you have to make a payment to Beeminder. Obviously, you can fake out the system, but, if you go with it, it might be just painful enough to make a difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one that's a little different, is Fortune City. Along with bookkeeping and so on, to check expenses, the app has a simulation game to build and grow your own city, so it keeps it interesting. Other more traditional apps that make paying more attention to your money, more fun, and help you achieve savings goals for example, include Acorns, Stash, You Need a Budget, Thrive, and Qapital, that is, Qapital with a Q. I'm going to leave more info in the show notes, which can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcasts/lindseyholden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lindsey talked about sharing her Uber code through Google AdWords. We all get codes all the time. Make sure if you love a product that you use, and you recommend it to a friend, you tell them, give them your code, ask them to use your code, if they try the product. And it's fine to say, "I'll get a bonus," because almost every case, they get something too. And even if they don't, friends want to see you rewarded. So don't be shy about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And every time you sign up something new, don't forget to use a friend's code, that they can share with you. So if you know a friend uses a service, or goes to a certain exercise place, or buys a certain product, ask them, "Do you have a reward code that you can give me, because I might sign up for that as well." Just think for a moment, who you know that uses that product or service, pay forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, I want to thank all of you for sharing your time. DM me, let me know your favorite gamification apps. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell. On Instagram, at bobbirebell1. More about the podcast, at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And did I mention, my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup is now out in paperback. I'd love it if you pick up a copy, and maybe one for a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, to the Long Game's Lindsey Holden, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Family + Relationships, Entrepreneurs, Career, Business, Millennial Superstars, Role Models, Women Role Models, Student Debt, Women Entrepreneurs, StartupBobbi Rebell KaufmanLindsay Holden, Apps, Google Adwords, Money, Saving Money, Long Game, Student Debt, Minimalist Spender, Gamification, Uber
Love is blind to price tags with Andy Hill of the Marriage, Kids and Money podcast
Love is blind to price tags with Andy Hill of the Marriage, Kids and Money podcast
ANDY HILL INSTAGRAM white border.png

Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.

In Andy’s money story you will learn:

-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan

-The emotional backdrop to that mistake

-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision

-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently

In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:

-The options Andy wish he had considered

-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship

In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research

-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan

-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings

In my take you will learn:

-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!

-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well

-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used

-Resources to get more information about 529 plans

Episode Links

Andy’s website:

Marriagekidsandmoney.com

Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook

Listen to Andy’s podcast! 

Follow Andy!!

Twitter @andyhillmkm

Instagram: @AndyHill 827

Facebook @andyhillMKM

 

Learn more about 529’s: 

Link to the SEC website:

https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html

Link to the FINRA website Saving for College

http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college

College Savings Plans Network

http://www.collegesavings.org/

SAVING FOR COLLEGE

https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan

 

Transcription

Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!

Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."

Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.

Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!

Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?

Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]

Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.

Andy Hill:
Nope.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?

Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?

Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?

Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?

Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."

Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."

Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?

Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?

Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."

Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."

Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.

Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.

Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.

Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.

Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.

Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.

Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.

Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Advice, Business, Financial Aid, Financial Grownup, Investing, Money, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Entrepreneurs, Family + Relationships, Millennial SuperstarsBobbi Rebell KaufmanAndy Hill, Marriage Kids and Money, Marriage, Kids, Money, personal finance, personal branding, family, family values, dave ramsey, saving, student loans, 529 plans, college, engagement rings, shopping, loans, spending, podcast, podcast guest, financial grownup