Ashley Kaufman, who bought her NYC apartment at age 24 shares how she did it, plus her best money tips for financial grownups. 

Money Tips

• Be the planner of the friend group

• Always be searching for discounts

• Have a monthly self reflection session on your spending

• Don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means, do not spend more than you have

• Always buy pet insurance!

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• Instagram - @ashleykaufman and @walnutthemaltese
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ashley Kaufman:
When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices. Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big question I am constantly asked about my book, Launching Financial Grownups is, did your stepdaughter really buy her apartment at age 24? Then, how did she do it? Then, how can we do it? Well, the truth is, she focused and she made some really tough choices. It was not all perfect to say the least. Ashley also truly embraced the financial grownup lifestyle. You're going to hear more about that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley wrote the epilogue to the book, Launching Financial Grownups, but until now no one has heard directly from her about all the details. Ashley not only reveals in her interview exactly how she did it and what she might do differently, she also is going to share her top money tips, including some that I am adopting myself. Yeah, you can tell I'm pretty proud of her. Here is my 25-year-old stepdaughter, Ashley Kaufman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Kaufman, you are a financial grownup and I can't believe I'm saying that after I've known you since you were eight years old. Oh my gosh. Welcome.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you for having me. Can't believe it's taken this long to get on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. First of all, let me just say that you're the first of your siblings to come on the podcast, and your father has come on for our Summer Watch Series, and he does want to return. But he never came on to give actual money advice, money tips like you are, so you are special, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to get to your money tips, which by the way, a lot of people know you because you wrote the epilogue to Launching Financial Grownups. It's been a big hit. Everyone says that is the best part of the book. I get a lot of people asking me something that we talk about in the book, which is the fact that you bought an apartment at age 24. I want to give you a chance to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do it in short, but also how has it been? Because the book was written really a year ago, more than a year ago at this point and a lot has happened.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I was able to do it in short, by saving a lot, living at home after college and saving every dollar that I made. Immediately after graduating from college, I picked up a summer job, even though I had a job starting in August where I work now. I picked up that job with the intention of continuing to save and aggressively saving so that I could buy an apartment and move out.

Ashley Kaufman:
Not that I didn't enjoy living at home and eating with Harry every night, but when you're 22 and moving home after college, you really want to move out and live your own life like all of your friends are. So it was definitely hard in that regard just because I saw my friends living their own lives, renting apartments all over the city and furnishing them and making it their own space. I felt a little claustrophobic, just kind of like, I don't have my own space. I'm living at home.

Ashley Kaufman:
But in the end it's been worth it. I absolutely adore where I live now. It took a little bit of adjustment after moving in also to just make it feel like home, and it's taken the majority of the year to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I get to asking you about how it is living in your own apartment, tell me about the choices that you had to make, because it sounds simple, "Well, I just saved a lot of money by living with my parents." But it's not really that simple. You did have to make some choices and you did miss out on some things or make adjustments to your plans many times.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I think COVID helped a lot and not being able to go out with friends. I did also miss out on some things my friends were doing, like going to music festivals, which in retrospect seems like it was a massive waste of money anyway, but seeing all my friends there and having a good time, it definitely felt like I was missing out on something.

Ashley Kaufman:
There were also times where my friends would be going out to brunch every week and I just wouldn't go along with them because every dollar ended up counting. I was really tight when I did put the down payment down on my apartment and then had to go buy furniture, so every dollar ended up adding up to allowing me to live where I am now.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that stuck with a lot of people in the epilogue in Launching Financial Grownups is you said something like, "I love Excel. I'm an Excel kind of girl." How did you use systems to help you save the money, track money, and then help you when you were moving into this apartment and setting up your own home?

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I do love Excel. I took a course on Excel in college, and since then, just everything has been in Excel. I have my monthly budgeting in there, which I have since college. I have a list of my running expenses that are the same every month, as well as a list of things I would like to do that month. If it doesn't add up to have me saving what I would like to be saving every month, I will make cutbacks and adjust, but Excel really runs my life.

Ashley Kaufman:
I mean, I have tabs for vacations I want to go on, I have tabs for, here's an expense that comes up once a year, like renewing my pass to the zoo, which I really enjoy, but I have to budget for that. It helps me keep track of that. When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices.

Ashley Kaufman:
Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what advice would you give to other people that have short-term, but big goals? Not necessarily buying an apartment, because not everybody wants to do that. It's not the right choice for everybody. People might want to move around, have other priorities, but if they have a short-term goal, what's the best way to get there?

Ashley Kaufman:
To really take a step back and look at what you're spending and do I really need be doing this? I mentioned earlier that I have a zoo membership. Maybe every year, I don't need to renew that if I don't see myself going, and I have a financial goal that I need to hit, or let's say something like I've been looking into buying a new couch. There's small steps that you can take to get to where you need to go by just taking that step back and reviewing all of those choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just being accountable and doing a self-audit of where you are right now and what matters most to you for that season of your life.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. That goes into our money tips that you brought with you that are new money tips, but I think makes so much sense for everybody, not just young people, but it's very relatable, certainly in the young adult phase of life that you're in and you're 25 years old right now. I can't believe it.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first of five money tips that we're going to get into has to do with, I would call it the FOMO thing, like your peer group and what's going on there. What's your money tip there?

Ashley Kaufman:
My money tip for friend groups is to always be the planner in the friend group, by being the planner, you can be cognizant of other people's requirements while also staying within your own budget. If people want to go out at night to say a club or something, you don't have to go to the fanciest nightclub to go have a good time with your friends. Some people might want to in your friend group, but other people might not be able to afford it.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can really make sure that you are courteous towards others while also staying within your own budget and maybe the budgets of your friends, if you're aware of their needs and requirements financially as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because we tend to think just reflect on ourselves like, "Wow, this is a stretch for me financially." But we also may not realize that it may be a stretch for everybody, but nobody really wants to say anything. It's actually a really considerate thing of your friend group to bring up the cost and to be the planner and control those things. Your second money tip is something your dad has gotten so good at and I'm so proud of him, and it has to do with making a little extra effort when you're buying stuff.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes. My second tip would be to always search for discounts, which goes back into being a planner. If you want something, wait for it to go on sale, wait to find a discount of some sort. If it's travel, be planning over a year in advance and make sure that you are tracking any sort of discount. Marriott hotels I know specifically you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance or up to 48 hours in some cases so it doesn't hurt to book something while you're searching for something else, or searching for a better deal.

Ashley Kaufman:
There are also corporate discounts to look at at larger companies. Discounts through loyalty programs. I'll occasionally get something in my inbox from Marriott due to my status. You get X, Y, and Z number of extra points for participating in this program we have going on, or memberships like Costco. Costco Travel actually has some great deals to be found.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Your money tip number three has to do, I think, with the ultimate in wellness and self-care.

Ashley Kaufman:
My third money tip is to always have a monthly reflection session. Whether you think that you need it or you don't, you probably do. It's just sitting down with your monthly credit card statements and your bank statements, and just seeing where there could be changes. It doesn't necessarily need to be cutting things, but it could be you have a subscription service like Ipsy or Birchbox, but every time you walk into TJ Maxx or Petco, you're buying makeup or things for your dog.

Ashley Kaufman:
You could be canceling those subscriptions and spending it on items that you really want, rather than what's just showing up in a subscription box.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's really good advice. I'm going to give that some thought, because I have a makeup/skincare subscription box that comes four times a year, that I do love the surprise element of it, but the truth is that they're not necessarily things that I would buy. I'm going to take that one to heart, Ashley. All right. The next one has to do with really the emotional elements. It's an emotional money tip.

Ashley Kaufman:
My next tip would be to don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means. Don't spend more than you have, but don't make yourself feel bad for going out for a $5 coffee with your friends. I'm very guilty of this.

Ashley Kaufman:
I will occasionally cancel plans because I feel like it's not within my budget and it makes you feel bad because number one, you're ruining relationships with friends, and number two, you're really are developing an unhealthy relationship with money, where you feel like you have to cut something else in order to make up for something that really isn't hurting you that much.

Ashley Kaufman:
If it's not within your means, go ahead, cancel the coffee date with your friends. But if it's really not going to stop you from paying your bills that month, it might be okay to spend a little extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would add that don't forget that at many coffee shops like Starbucks, even though you think the smallest one is a tall, there's actually a short, which is even cheaper. You can get a short, plain coffee and have your coffee plans and not spend as much money as you... You don't have to spend for the 7 or $8 fancy espresso drink.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number five is my favorite of all, because you are a new pet owner, which is something that you did wait to do until you could afford it. We had a lot of financial discussions as a family because you have a dependent, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. Yeah. We just brought home my little dog, Walnut. She's a Maltese puppy. She is my entire world, but my tip related to dogs would be to always buy pet insurance, cats, dogs, whatever you can insure, always insure your pets. It should never be a question of whether you can afford care for your animal. I built my $500 deductible into my emergency fund when I went and signed up for pet insurance.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know that if something happens with my dog, it's a $500 deductible that I've covered in my emergency fund and then my insurance will cover 90% of it. I don't have to worry about calling the vet for the smallest of things. My dog had an episode in the middle of the night a few weeks ago where she was shaking. It wasn't super concerning, but I didn't hesitate to call the vet and find out that it was probably normal because I knew that I could cover the cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember when you were thinking about adopting a dog, that you really in advance researched all the costs, including medical costs. I think that was so important because it is a dependent and it is important to understand the full scope of what you could be in store for, because you love your puppy. You're never going to say no and it's important to know what you're in store for. I was so proud of you just in the run-up to getting Walnut.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, final thoughts and where can people be in touch with you? I know Walnut, the Maltese, is a big star as well so people might want to follow her.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can follow me on Instagram @AshleyKaufman or Walnut @Walnutthemaltese. Walnut is much more interesting on Instagram than I am, I have to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are the brains behind the Walnutthemaltese Instagram account, so you get credit for both accounts. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Walnut is starting to get inquiries for brand deals. She is so unbelievably cute. Feel free to DM @Walnutthemaltese on Instagram. I loved how candid Ashley was about the importance of having a healthy relationship with money and prioritizing living your life. She's okay missing some music festivals that frankly, she probably just wasn't that into anyway, but she does kick herself for foregoing coffee plans with a friend because she's so committed to staying on budget. It's delicate.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've talked about my own issues letting go and letting myself spend money. The lines are blurry on this, but when it comes down to it, money is the means to do what you want, so do what you want. Apply that thinking and don't let an unhealthy relationship with money keep you from living your life. I would tell everyone to replay this episode, but the truth is, we have it all for you in the show notes. Just go to my website at bobbirebell.com for those. It also will give you a full transcript.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also can sign up for our newsletter there, where we send podcast previews and interesting news articles to you just twice a month. I haven't asked this in a while, but please take a minute and write a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy listening to us. Biggest thanks to all of you for supporting the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, please help me get the word out. Tell a friend, share on social and just keep listening and being in touch on all the socials. Big thanks to Ashley Kaufman for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Episode Description: Kirk Chisholm of Innovative Advisory Group and the host of the Money Tree podcast shares some controversial viewpoints that may have grownups questioning the market assumptions we take for granted.

Timestamps & Main Points:

• 00:00- Introduction

• 06:56 - Half Truth #1

• 07:30 - Cash is trash

• 09:09 - Half Truth #2

• 11:26 - Half Truth #3

• 11:52 - Where do people invest?

• 13:45 - Diversification is volatility management.

• 15:45 - Half Truth #4

Kirk’s Bio:

Kirk Chisholm is a wealth manager and principal at Innovative Advisory Group, Host of the Money Tree Investing Podcast and all around interesting guy. He is an outside the box thinker who provides a different perspective on many commonly held beliefs in personal finance. He has a rare expertise with alternative investments held in self-directed IRAs which has helped many investors invest in their passion. Kirk was recently recognized as one of the top 100 most influential financial advisors in the US by Investopedia.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

• https://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/

• bobbirebell.com/cleanmyMac

• www.moneytreepodcast.com

Follow Kirk!

• Facebook - @Money Tree Investing

• LinkedIn - Money Tree Investing Podcast

• Website - www.moneytreepodcast.com & www.innovativewealth.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Subscribe to the newsletter.

3. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey grownup friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer, because you're not as organized as you should be, because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up, and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files, so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M/cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Kirk Chisholm:

Diversification's not really protecting you. Diversification is volatility management. Risk management doesn't work because the markets have changed in the last 20 years where now big selloffs affect everything including bonds. So that's why you have to be aware. You can't just diversify and say, "I'll be okay." Because this year, stocks, bonds, everything was down similarly. So you really weren't protected by diversifying.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

This interview was like a punch to the gut. I'm still processing it, my friends. As you heard in the clip at the top of the episode, my guest has some very strong opinions about how we see the market, how we approach investing and maybe now with the market having such a rough year, now is the time to take a step back and really reexamine so many of the market truth that we just take for granted, and I'm in there. I take a lot of things for granted, things like buy and hold and don't miss the best 10 days of the market, things like that. Things we talk about and we just assume are great investing advice. But maybe not. Kirk Chisholm runs Innovative Advisory Group. You may also know him as the host of the Money Tree podcast. Kirk has been in the investment advisory business for decades, and he's developed perspectives that you may or may not agree with. But I can assure you, you want to hear. I'm still processing, as I said, a lot of what he said, but Kirk really made me think about things that I took for granted and at least question why do I take them for granted. I have a big takeaway I'm going to save it for after the interview here is Kirk Chisholm.

Kirk Chisholm, you are a financial grownup. I am so happy to finally, finally, finally have you on the podcast. So welcome.

Kirk Chisholm:

Thank you for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

For disclosure, the reason I'm laughing so much is this is actually our fourth attempt. Most of our failures were because I have had various illnesses highlighted by a wonderful experience with COVID. We've also had some technical issues. So we are finally here and I'm so excited to get it done and have you on the podcast and I'm going to be on your wonderful podcast, the Money Tree at some point in 2023, you also have a firm called Innovative Advisory Group as well is a great investment option for many people. Tell us a little bit about that and your philosophy and then we're going to get into investing half-truths.

Kirk Chisholm:

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Bobbi. Thanks for having me on the show. I love your show by the way, so your listeners are very lucky to have you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yes. So basically I've been in the industry for about 23 years and I started in the broker dealer side at Paine Webber, back when it was Paine Webber, then UBS, and Smith Barney, and then decided to go out my own because I just didn't see the value of the big firms. There was a time where they did have them, but then at everyone was a little bit more the same. So it just didn't have the same value. So what we did is 2008, we've started Innovative Advisor Group with the idea that you could have outside the box strategies. Because most of the industry is very regimented and it's very kind of inside the box. You have to do these things in a certain way and that's not how investing works. Talk to any real estate investor, they put all their money in real estate, they don't touch the stock market. Why should they? Right? If they know invest in what they know as Peter Ellens used to say.

So we focused on investing outside the market, in alternatives inside of retirement accounts. And of course we do traditional strategies, but I think the alternative stuff is really fascinating because some of the best investments we've seen have been on the alternative side.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you do specialize in alternative investments I should say. You mentioned 2008, here we are in closing up 2022 as we record this both very, let's call them interesting years for investing. Certainly challenging in a time when it makes sense to sort of reexamine the things that we sometimes take for granted when it comes to investing. And we're going to get through some of them, which is for example, always buy and hold is the way to go or that printing money always causes inflation. These are sort of what you call investing half-truths, and I'm excited to hear your perspective on them because I like many people do take these things as sort of the way to go and the standard advice that may not always hold up as our world is evolving. So we're heading into 2023, we're going to talk about some of the investing half-truths as you like to call them. The first one is cash is dangerous. Tell us about that.

Kirk Chisholm:

There's a steam in the financial, I don't know, if just the zeitgeist, there's the whole industry talks about how when you have high inflation cash is dangerous. Why? Well, if you have high inflation, your cash should be worth a lot less next year. And then they tried out this chart, which is 100-year chart which says, "Hey, in early 1900s, cash is worth a dollar and now it's worth 3 cents in the dollar." Wow, that's really scary. Well, I don't know anybody who kept cash for 100 years. That to me seems ridiculous, right? So you have people like Ray Dalio who says cash is trash, and over long-terms, he's right. But short-terms, it's different. If you look at up to the third quarter of this year, 2022, the S&P 500 was down 25%. The Nasdaq, 33. 30-Year US Treasuries are down 30%. Safe bonds, right? Down 30%.

Real estate, 30%. Gold, 8.4. How much was your cash down? Zero. If anything it made a little money but you weren't getting much in interest. Call it zero, okay. Being generous. So we had 8.2% inflation at some point. Now at 7.7. If you look at the real returns, which is inflation adjusted, so instead of the S&P 500 being down 25%, it's down 32%. The Nasdaq instead of 33, it's down 41, Treasury is down 38, gold down 16, cash is down 8.2, which one performed the best?

Bobbi Rebell:

Cash.

Kirk Chisholm:

It's still cash, right? And here's the framework you need to take away from this. It's not that cash is good or bad during inflation. It's that inflation affects every single asset class equally. So those math nerds out there, if something affects both sides of the equation equally, you can remove it. So when we look at returns, we don't look at inflation because it doesn't matter, what is the nominal return is really what matters because if cash is the best performer, and you're down 8.2%, that's still the best performer. Just because you have inflation doesn't mean you're going to make money. It just means it's the best of the bad options.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay. So let's move on to the next investing half-truths. This one I totally buy into. You always have to be invested. Obviously later in life when you're taking money out of your savings, that's different. But for the most part, most of us when we're in the investing accumulation and growth stage, I've always been told, after you have your emergency fund, you need to be invested. The money should not be sitting in cash, to contrary of what we just talked about. Tell us about that. Why is that a half-truth?

Kirk Chisholm:

There's this theme of you always have to be invested. This has been around for decades. And the reason was if you look back in the '80s and the '90s and some of the 2000s, if you were always invested, the market would just go up. It's kind of this buy and hold kind of theme. Oh, you just be invested and it'll continue to go up. And I think what that does is it kind of dumbs down the aspect of investing that's really important, which is understanding what you're in. So if you just think the market's going up 7% or 8% a year because you're in the market, then you're going to be disappointed. So from 2000 to 2013, you basically lost money for 13 years and it was up and down. But January of 2000, till July of 2013, you would've lost 30 basis points a year during that time.

It wasn't until after July that actually you broke even. That's 13 years of lost time. So yeah, you could have been invested in the market but you wouldn't have made money from that start to point. Now, there was a ton of volatility, just like we're having now. And think of it this way. So from the peak of 2007 until the bottom of 2009, you lost about 58 and a half percent, if you were in the S&P 500, okay? That's not a small number. Now, think of you were in cash, how much did you lose? Zero. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:

Right.

Kirk Chisholm:

Now your cash just made you 100% return because you can buy twice as much of that S&P 500 shares as you could have year prior.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay. But if we told everyone to just put all of your money in cash, for the majority of people, that would not work out well, because the truth is over time it has been proven that your money does increase more if it is invested, especially if it's diversified. One of your other half-truths that I'm obviously segueing into is that diversification manages risk. We've always been told be diversified. And I know many people think that investing in an index is diversification. That's not always true. It absolutely depends on how diversified that index is, right? Tell me why you feel this is a half-truth, that diversification manages risk.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yeah, and I want to address one quick point before we get into that which you mentioned, which is where do people invest? This is really hard. I'm giving you these mental models so that you can understand how the markets work. I'm not telling you to be in cash or stocks. I think that's important because if you're doing one thing and you never change your mind, then you're going to eventually be wrong even if you're right most times. So the whole diversification strategy that you mentioned, diversification, people have always looked at this, actually diversification started as an academic study. It was never intended for Wall Street, but what Wall Street realized is, "Hey, if we have diversification and it reduces risk, then we can sell more mutual funds." That's how this started. This wasn't like an academic proven positive thing that works all the time. It was a theory that people said, "Hey, this looks good enough to sell mutual funds to people."

Diversification actually does a really good job at reducing volatility. Now volatility is this up and down, you see any given day or week, it reduces volatility because in normal times it gives you a smoother ride. Some things go up, some things go down. But overall it's going to have a smoother ride in a direction you hope you're going. Now the problem is when it doesn't work. 2008, 2017, 2020, 2022, there's a difference between risk and volatility. Volatility is this up and down movement. Risk is what we call a permanent impairment of capital, which like 2008, dropping close to 60% is a permanent impairment of capital. Oddly enough, 2020 came back. So that technically would be volatility. But the point is no one wants to lose half their stuff. If you look at 2008, withstanding gold and cash, everything went down 58 and a half percent given a few percentage either way, but 2020 was the same thing.

Virtually everything went down the same. Which means diversification's not really protecting you. Diversification is volatility management. Risk management doesn't work because the markets have changed in the last 20 years. We're now big selloffs affect everything including bonds. So that's why you have to be aware. You can't just diversify and say, "I'll be okay." Because this year, stocks, bonds, everything was down similarly. So you really weren't protected by diversifying. So you just need to be aware of that aspect so that you're not blindly doing this and just saying, "Why did I lose so much money?" It's because it's not a good risk management tool. It's a good volatility management tool.

Bobbi Rebell:

So then what is a good risk management tool?

Kirk Chisholm:

This is where it gets into being hard. I try to think of simple frameworks to give people. The way I've kind of looked at it is you have to have a framework for risk management. Now everyone's different. Some people say, "If it goes down more than 5%, I'm out." But you have to have a more active mentality or you need to find tools like we use Options as a way to manage risk, because I can define the worst case scenario and say, "Nothing will be worse than this no matter what happens in the world." So I like Options as a tool for that, but it's not for everybody. So I'm not saying this is all in one tool for everybody, but you need to find a strategy that is acceptable to you. Now one strategy might be you invest in rental property and that's what you do for a living. You're really smart when it comes to real estate investing.

I have a lot of friends, they do this professionally and they'll always invest in real estate and they know how to manage that. And you're still getting your cash flow, you're still getting your returns, but you need to know what you're investing in. If you're going to be passive, then you need to expect the fact that we could have a period like the early 2000s or the '70s where your returns are lackluster for 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:

But not everyone can be an expert on those things. Very often we have jobs that there's a reason that all of these investment management firms exist because we have to outsource it. I want to gets back to one half-truth before we run out of time. So an investing half-truth that fascinates me that you talk about is that you have to be invested in order to get the best 10 days. You don't want to miss the best 10 days. I'm not sure if I phrased that correctly, so feel free to correct me.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yeah. So when I started this industry in '99, a whole bunch of wholesalers would go through the office and they would give you all these charts and say, "Here's a chart, you can use this to sell our mutual funds." And it was just weird. But anyway, that's the culture of the broker dealer world. So there's one I kept seeing over and over and over again, is basically if you missed the 10 best days, your performance would be cut in half. Since 1980, if you're invested all the time, your $10,000 would've grown to $700,000. If you missed the 10 best days, it would've been only $341,000. Well that's significant. I should be invested all the time, right?

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah.

Kirk Chisholm:

I mean, that's obvious.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm buying in. Sure.

Kirk Chisholm:

However, if you missed the 10 best days, your performance was lackluster. If you were invested all the time, it was much better. However, if you missed the 10 worst days, you would've doubled the performance than if you had just been invested the whole time. So it's what I call of Wall Street half-truth, where they tell you what you need to know to buy their mutual fund or to buy their narrative. But if you actually look at the numbers, it's not completely true, because missing the 10 best days is incentivizing you to buy something and never sell it, which is Wall Street's preference. But if you were to miss the 10 worst days, which is why we focus on risk management, if you miss the 10 worst days, then you're much better off and you don't have periods of big losses, which is if you invested all the time, like we talked about, you could be down 60% in your portfolio.

That is historically okay, that happens. It's not all the time, but it happens. So you just need to look at the full picture. So the half-truths are about showing you the difference between this little piece over here and the whole rest of the picture, which if you understood, you'd say, "Okay, I can make better decisions now because I understand the scope of what's going on."

Bobbi Rebell:

All right, so what's your best advice heading into 2023 for the average investor? Who is not able to time the market, to miss the worst 10 days and to get the best 10 days, because that's just not realistic for most of us.

Kirk Chisholm:

You should start thinking about your portfolio differently. For example, interest rates have been zero for a very long time, except for now. Now you can get three-month treasuries, which are virtually, if you can't say guaranteed about anything, that's as close as you can get to give you a guarantee of safety. So you can get 4% in change on three-month treasuries, which is great. 4% compared to losing 20%, 30% is pretty nice. So I wouldn't say go all in on bonds, but if you're going to have fixed income in your portfolio, you should look at short-term bonds, three months, maybe even six months at the most. But interest rates are going to keep going up for at least the next six months. So you shouldn't go out too far. But if you can lock in 4%, 5% on a bond for three to six months, I think you're in good shape. Savings bonds are phenomenal. You could get 9.6% I think as of October, now it's, I think 6.8. That's a pretty good yield. Now it's only $10,000 per year per person, but that's still a really good rate.

Bobbi Rebell:

A little more with your tax return if you can, if you get a tax refund.

Kirk Chisholm:

Right. So that's something anybody could do and that's like a no-brainer approach. You're getting a good yield, almost no risk. So it's a good approach. But outside of that, I would just say learn as much as you can and think about valuations. If you look back in the '70s, valuations got so cheap that it was blatantly obvious that it was a good time to buy. It didn't matter if it went up or down from there. It was just things like Warren Buffett made all his money. His best returns were in the late '70s and early '80s because it was just so cheap that things were, you could have just thrown a dart at a board and you could have made money. Right now, it is so expensive that things are more expensive now than they were prior to COVID, and then they were expensive. People were talking about how expensive it was prior to COVID and we're still above those.

So the fact that we've gone down 20% to 30% on the markets, we're not even close to where we should be. So be very careful about your investments. Don't feel like you need to be all in. Don't be afraid to be in cash. Just be more conservative with your investments than you think you should be. Because the one rule that if you take nothing away from this, you should take this away. In a bull market, the idea is to make money. In a bear market, the idea is not to make money. The winner of a bear market is the one who loses the least. Now you might think about that, you think you're crazy, but we're in a bear market. Markets have all been down this year. The one who lost the least is cash. And the cash has still lost 8% into inflation, which means it's still down, but it's lost the least.

So don't think about it as, "I need to make 7% this year." Because you could lose a lot of money. Think about it as, "How can I protect myself? What can I do to be more conservative and lose the least until things change?" And if you want to know when things are going to change, I'll give you an easy framework. Watch the Fed. If they start reducing rates, then you can get a green light to start investing. If as long as they're raising rates, you should keep your foot on the brake, not on the gas.

Bobbi Rebell:

All right, thank you so much Kirk. Where can people find out more about you and be in touch?

Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. You can find me on Money Tree Investing podcast. It's moneytreepodcast.com is the website. Also, you can find me at innovativewealth.com. That's our website and you can pretty much find me everywhere. I'm pretty easy to find.

Bobbi Rebell:

I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never-ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile. So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, I can't believe you are the grownup either, and new colors and designs of our top selling generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous too, well yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps small projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays guys.

So if you follow me on Instagram or on TikTok, you're going to see some of the video clips where I will look very confused and honestly kind of skeptical. I was. I try to be open-minded with what my guests are saying because there's so much that we can learn from them. And by the way, Kirk is a very smart guy. He made his arguments very well. A lot of what Kirk says makes sense. Maybe I'm just stuck in the things that I take for granted. And I like that he has me questioning them. On the other hand, when he talks about the market going down for years and how it would absolutely be better to have been in cash for those years, of course, so we can buy more at a lower price, of course, sure, but I'm just not smart enough or good enough or whatever, and maybe I don't pay the right people who are smart enough, but I can't identify those years.

And so I'm kind of lost, because someone like me, and many of you I suspect, kind of have to default to being in the market in the bad years so that we can be in the market when the good years come along. That said, I love a good discussion and I totally appreciate Kirk's viewpoints. Hopefully my conversation with Kirk got all of you at least questioning the things that we take for granted, which is something we should always be doing.

If you are not already, please go to my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, or go to the show notes and sign up for my newsletter where I share more useful information for financial grownups and of course DM me. Let me know what you thought about this, and every episode. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell pretty much everywhere else. And of course, also, if you can, please as a little holiday gift to me, consider writing a review of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast on Apple Podcast. Or if you listen on any other platform that has space for reviews, means a lot to me. And by the way, definitely send me a screen grab of it if you do so. So I can thank you. I also want to thank Kirk Chisholm for helping us all be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

As investors’ appetite for risk continues to be tested by the stock market and crypto currency, we shine the spotlight on old school Certificates of Deposit. Beth Pinsker shares how to buy them, which ones to buy and why CD's are having a moment for the first time in decades. 

Money Tips

1. Think about your whole financial picture

2. Your timeframe matters most

3. Money you need in the short-term is best kept low-risk investments.

4. Ask for help when you need it

---

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• LinkedIn - @bpinsker

• Website - https://www.marketwatch.com/author/beth-pinsker

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing. Even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M forward slash CleanMyMac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Beth Pinsker:

It is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Are you wearing any retro fashion? Maybe you're reaching to the back of your closet, pulling out something that you forgot was even an option but now looks interesting enough to try on. That's what's happening with CDs, which is short for certificates of deposit. I personally have absolutely ignored them for as long as I can remember and my only real awareness in my daily life of CDs came from those signs that you see when you walk by physical bank branches and they would advertise rates that were frankly not all that appealing. Well, the laughing has stopped because the rates have gone up right along with inflation, but in a good way. And unlike I bonds that we discussed a few weeks ago, there is not one rate for all and not one term for all. There are a lot of choices for all of us to make if this is something that we may be interested in adding to our investment portfolios.

So I have enlisted the help of my former work colleague, Beth Pinsker, to give us the low down. Now, Beth and I worked together at Reuters where she wrote a personal finance column and she was also the editor of many of my columns. Like me, she also became a certified financial planner. Beth is now at MarketWatch where she writes about investing. I saw her recently and being the nerds that we are, the conversation naturally turned to how exciting CDs were as one does. Beth translates all when it comes to CDs. You guys are in for a treat. Here is Beth Pinsker.

Beth Pinsker, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Beth Pinsker:

Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm happy to have you here. We ran into each other recently and reconnected. We are former colleagues and you have continued to soar in the world of journalism. You are now the investing columnist at MarketWatch. Tell us a little bit about that job and your expertise, because you're also a CFP. We both took the CFP exam and we both mutually cheered each other on and thank goodness we passed because that exam is one we don't want to take again.

Beth Pinsker:

No, never. I'm done with tests I think. So I'm looking in my column and investing holistically as an element of financial planning. So it looks at everything that you need to do from what kind of accounts you have open to what you put in them to how you take it out of them, that whole life cycle of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that because we previously used to just think, okay, investing means throw money into the stock market, pick an ETF and you're done, set it and forget it. But it's becoming a little more complicated now because the market's had such an extreme pullback. We're talking in the fall of 2022 and people are starting to think about things like I bonds, which we covered in a recent podcast episode, and things that we used to roll our eyes at and dismiss as being not all that, things like CDs, and that's what I asked you to come on and talk about. Tell us, first of all, just explain to people because this may be a foreign concept to some people listening to the podcast because it has not been something even really for many people worth looking at. What's a CD? How do they work? What do we need to know? The basics.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah. Advisors tell me that anybody under 50 has no idea what a CD is and has never touched one and doesn't have any idea what they are. A CD is a certificate of deposit, it's a banking product. So it's fully insured under the FDIC and you are basically buying a certificate that is loaning money to the bank and they pay you interest for that and that interest is higher as an incentive than a regular bank account. You lock in for a certain period of time, three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, five years. You can even get CDs that are longer than that and the longer the length, the higher the rate usually.

What happens with that kind of structure is that a lot of people will put longer term money in there in order to get the higher interest rate or they will create what are called ladders where they have different maturities that come due and then they create a rung structure. So you have a three month, a six month, and nine month, and when the three month comes due, you roll it into a six month and when the six month comes due, you roll it into another six months or a three month. There are different scenarios for what you need to get out of your money, but basically it's a loan that you are giving to the bank and so they give you money in return.

Bobbi Rebell:

Is this something that people would buy in a normal brokerage account like if they use certain apps or if they use certain discount trading platforms? Is it as simple as picking it out just like you would a stock or a mutual fund or an ETF?

Beth Pinsker:

It's actually easier, which is why I think that when you talk about I bonds, which you have to go to a separate account to buy, and treasuries, which you have to go to either treasurydirect.gov or you can get them through your brokerage account. There are all sorts of maturities and different distribution dates and all sorts of numbers after the title of the treasury bond, they're hard for the regular person. A CD is like a click in your bank account and you have a CD. It's like the regular person's version one step beyond a high yield savings account. I think that the hierarchy is you have your checking account, you have your savings account. If you're really interested in making more money, you have a high yield savings account, which might be at a separate bank like an online savings bank.

If you want more money than that, then you go to a CD and then if you're willing to go beyond those steps, then you think about I bonds in a separate account or treasuries in a separate account. There is something called a brokered CD, which would be available through your brokerage account and those are typically at a higher rate than even the CDs that are offered directly by a bank. Basically, they're like bulk rate brokerage discounts so that Fidelity or Vanguard or whatever your brokerage account is, they would make a deal with the bank that's offering the CD and you would get a slightly better rate to buy it through as the brokerage account as an incentive to do it there and then it would live in your brokerage account.

Bobbi Rebell:

So let me ask you this, for example, you compared it to treasuries. With the treasury, which is borrowing from the government, the rate is set. So with I bonds, every six months it's resetting. We know it's been 9.62, we know it's going to reset to a lower number, but it is what it is. With CDs, different banks could offer different rates. I mean we walk by, if you walk by a bank, you see them often advertising the CD rates. So is this something where you may bank at one place but you may want to shop around and buy a CD at a different place? And if so, how do you shop around?

Beth Pinsker:

So you can find the latest rates if you Google and search around a little bit, it is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate. You may get preferential rates from a bank you already have a relationship with, so that's one place to start, but then you can start looking around. And because they're all FDIC insured, you don't have to worry about the safety of a brand name that you might not have heard about or a bank that's only online or a bank that's really far from your home that you can't go visit in person. As long as it says FDIC insured on there, you should be pretty good. And because it's a competitive environment, you might find a really good rate somewhere that's seeking out new customers and you can get a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:

You sent me four tips for our financial grownups, so I just want to go through them as well. The first tip when buying CDs is to think about your whole financial picture.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. So you don't want to put money in a CD that you're going to need right away. If you have an emergency fund, people are starting to think about their emergency fund in tiers. You need the money that you need right away to have access to say for instance, a check doesn't come in that when you're expecting it or you blow a tire and you need a little bit of extra cash, you need money you can touch today and you want that in a savings account. You want that earning interest but somewhere where you can get at it, but you might have a lot saved in your emergency fund as you should like six months worth and you wouldn't need that money for six months.

So you can look a little bit further out for the kind of opportunities to earn more on it. And so you can get a six month CD but you lock it up for those six months. There are some CDs you can get where you can get no surrender charges, where they're going to charge you if you turn it in early, but those are going to cost you a little bit on the rate. So they'll take a little bit off for that convenience fee. So that's why you have to look at how much do I need right now? How much do I need in a little while? How much do I need in a longer term timeframe? And for that longer term money, you have other options right now. CDs are one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your second tip for financial grownups is exactly what you just said. Your timeframe matters most. So follow up on that, you've talked about the timeframe, but what are the other options? You said there's other options with different timeframes. What else should people be considering?

Beth Pinsker:

When I was first a grown up, I thought you needed a certain amount of money to invest. That used to be true. There used to be minimums and trading fees and it really didn't pay to invest money because you were going to pay so much in fees in order to buy the stock or mutual fund that you wanted to buy and you needed $5,000 or $10,000 to get anybody's attention to do it for you. And now with all these trading platforms, there's no transaction fee, there's no minimums and you can get started right away. So your money is really all about what you need it for and what's the best way to store it and grow it while you're waiting to spend it. You have investing options, you have bond options, you have banking product options, you have a lot of options these days.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. Because your third tip was money you need in the short term is best kept in low risk investments, CDs are one. And I think a key thing that has come up a few times in this interview is FDIC insured. And that's something that I think has become more of a conversation topic in the wake of so many troubles in the crypto space because that's something I don't know people were necessarily aware of that there is no FDIC insurance when it comes to crypto products and other new kinds of investments that maybe people are thinking about and talking about. It's not that simple. I mean FDIC insured, can you just explain what protection that offers?

Beth Pinsker:

Sure. FDIC is an insurance product offered by the government to banks on $250,000 worth of deposits in a single account type. So if I have $250,000 and I have it in the bank and the bank goes kaput, the government will make sure I have my $250,000. I can't lose that money. It won't necessarily protect me from losses in the stock market, for instance, like there's a separate insurance for the failure of brokerage houses, but that also only covers the amount of money you have saved there. It doesn't cover investment losses. And I think what a lot of people are learning this year too is that the stock market can indeed go down and I think a lot of people who might have gotten started investing in the last five years or so might not have really fully realized that that things do go down and that if you put a thousand dollars in the stock market and today it's 800, nobody's going to make up that difference for you. But if you put your money in a bank account and you have a thousand dollars, you're going to have a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. And the fourth one is probably the most important for financial grownups and that is to ask for help when you need it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah, a lot of people have trouble with that. A lot of people don't want to tell their exact numbers to anybody, and it's hard, even a teenager talking to their parents or a young adult talking to their parents doesn't want to talk in exact numbers. And it's hard to give advice for finances without exact numbers because the advice you give to somebody who has $10,000 to invest is a lot different than somebody who has a hundred thousand dollars to invest.

Bobbi Rebell:

I think that you've made a great point throughout this that not only is everyone's needs goals and resources different, but your timelines are different. And that really is so much of this discussion that the nice thing about CDs is you can choose different timelines with the CDs and you'll get different returns, but at least you can customize it to your needs and strategize with it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. Another important thing to take note of that is that the Federal Reserve's next meeting is November 2nd, and then after that, I think it's December 14th, and they might raise rates again. And so you might want to be cautious about what you lock into right this second. We're very close to November 2nd. If rates go up again with the Federal Reserve, they're tied to the rates that banks offer. And so CD rates and high yield savings account rates and treasury bill rates might all shift upwards with that. And if you're locked into a two year CD right now, you might not necessarily capture what's going to happen in a month. But then again, given all the forecast about the economy, rates might eventually come down. So we're in an in between phase where nobody knows exactly what's going to happen with rates. And so you just want to take a look at what your needs are and what the amount of money you're dealing with and the timeframe you're dealing with and see what the best course of action is for you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. Beth, tell us where people can make sure to get all of your pieces for MarketWatch and be in touch with you if they want to learn more about you.

Beth Pinsker:

Well, there's marketwatch.com and then there's bethpinsker.com, so either one.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, great. And your socials?

Beth Pinsker:

I'm @bethpinsker on Twitter. And I'm Beth Pinsker on LinkedIn, and my dog has an Instagram account.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh, well what's your dog's Instagram account?

Beth Pinsker:

It's [inaudible 00:16:28].

Bobbi Rebell:

We'll follow that too. Thanks, Beth.

Beth Pinsker:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

So many choices. I highly encourage everyone to use the free resources available to you as a listener of The Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast, including the full transcript that we provide so you guys don't even have to take notes. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and look under the podcast tab and then click on the episode and it is all there for you. So be in touch with what topics you want to hear about. Just DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, that's the number one. Or email me at hello@financialgrownup.com. I love sharing this information with all of you for free. I know your time is precious and I appreciate your support. If you do have the time, please leave a review of this podcast wherever you listen to it and help me get the word out by taking a screenshot on your phone and sharing it on social media.

Tag me so I can thank you and let you know how much it means to me. And of course, you could just tell a friend about it too, right? Let's stay in touch. I share relevant articles and resources in my newsletter. It only comes out every other week, so I promise I won't barrage you with mail, but I really appreciate you being part of the community. You can sign up on my website, bobbirebell.com. Super easy. Biggest thanks to MarketWatch investing columnist and certified financial planner, Beth Pinsker, for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Dorie Clark shares game-changing tips to upgrade our work and personal lives including a new alternative to the passion vs. money career debate, jet-lag productivity, heartbeat income and working more hours- in less time. 

5 Money Tips To Play And Profit At The Long Game

• Rethink Multitasking

• Use Jet lag for productivity

• Do something interesting

• Ask- but wait a year first

• Patience leads to the pay off- but don’t be passive

---

Follow Dorie!

• Instagram - @dorieclark

• Facebook - @dorieclarkauthor

• Twitter - @dorieclark

• LinkedIn - @doriec

• YouTube - @DorieClark

• Website - dorieclark.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Dorie Clark:
Lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? Is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, Grownup friends. You guys are in for a treat. This week's interview is someone I have been trying to get on the podcast for quite some time. It is Dorie Clark. She is the author of the new book, The Long Game, it's her fourth book actually. If you're not familiar with her, and frankly, even if you are familiar with her, you're going to be so happy to listen to this episode. You're going to get so much out of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dorie is a big time public speaker, thought leader, and as I mentioned, an author and so much more. We totally hit it off. She covered some great topics for us, including what we can do if we haven't found our big passion. We all talk about follow your passion, but some of us, it's not so obvious what that passion is, but Dorie has a great solution.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also talked about super easy ways to up our productivity. Yes, you can have more than 24 hours in a day apparently. I'll tell you, some of these things were obvious once Dorie pointed them out, but they really weren't obvious to me beforehand. They're easy things that we can do once we know how to do them from Dorie. You'll see, we were doing it all wrong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we're going to talk about what we can learn from the amount of time it takes to learn to do a handstand. It was a great story and it made so much sense. If we're being honest, I, by the way, can not do a handstand and I'm not going to put in the time to do this handstand thing, guys, but the lesson that Dorie is going to give us totally works. This is all going to make sense. I know this was a little bit confusing, but just trust me. Listen to the interview. Here is The Long Game author, Dorie Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Dorie Clark. You're a financial grownup.

Dorie Clark:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm so glad to finally have you on. I've been a fan of yours since our mutual friend, Danielle Towne, introduced us a few years ago, and at that time started reading your books, Reinventing You, Entrepreneurial You, and you have some other ones in the mix, but most recently, The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World. You can see all of the tattered pages. Congratulations.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. It is amazing. It looks like a dog attacked it. I'm glad you were that voracious with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I read it by the pool, so there was a little bit of suntan lotion and water and all that stuff, but it was truly loved, mainly because I know you as the super successful Dorie Clark, you're such a celebrated thought leader, but you're very vulnerable in this book.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. Well, one of the things that has been challenging for me over the course of writing books, and this is my fourth one, and it's not necessarily a philosophical or emotional challenge, but it's actually just overcoming training. But I started my career as a journalist, specifically a political journalist, and the thing that you learn above all else is you are not the story. You are not the interesting part of the story, you write about other people. That was the frame that I was coming from. Over the course of writing my four books, I've come to learn that actually, in terms of what connects with readers, what seems to really make an impact, that's exactly wrong. I mean, what we look for in the news I think is very different than what we look for in business or career books.

Dorie Clark:
Over time, the part that people seem to respond to the most strongly was actually hearing some of my own experiences, and so over the years, I've really learned to weave more about what I've done and what I've tried and what I've gone through into the books as a compliment to the narrative and the reporting that I did. I'm really glad that you responded to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really did. The book is very relatable and I think a lot of people in our Grownup audience will feel the same way. You have a lot of incredible money and, frankly, life tips in the book. I want to dive right into those. I have five that I've highlighted. The first one is you talk about rethinking multitasking, because multitasking has gotten a lot of pushback in recent years, but you have a different perspective.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It is completely true that perhaps what we think of when it comes to multitasking is bad. That would be the equivalent of like, "Oh, I'm actually pretending do a podcast interview with you, Bobbi, but I'm actually checking my email," and that is not true, by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
You could pull it off.

Dorie Clark:
Well, the truth is, if you're trying to use the same parts of your brain, something is going to slip and it's just going to be suboptimal all around. But something that I realized, through some very meticulous time-tracking studies that I did over the course of several years, is that actually there are very complimentary activities that you can do. I mean, some examples might be working out and listening to a professional development book, or taking a walk and calling your mom, or whatever the case is, but it's two activities that you can do both of them equally well at the same time. It could be a cooking dinner with a friend, So you're doing a chore, but you're also visiting with someone that you want to spend time with. During my time tracking, I actually would double count those activities if I could legitimately do both of them equally well, and I came to realize that I'm actually able to build in about 28% more time into my week by doing that. I've become a huge fan of strategic multitasking.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about that is it's the anti-workaholic mentality, because it's giving you more downtime.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It's really just being a little bit more thoughtful. I mean, sometimes we fritter away these moments. I mean, I remember back early in my career when I didn't live in New York and I had a car and I'd drive to work, sometimes I just wouldn't think about it and I'd put on top 40 radio and most of it was just listening to advertisements. I mean, that is legitimately wasted time. Whereas, with a little bit more thought, you're listening to some kind of an educational podcast, like this one, or you're listening to an audio book and you're actually using that as professional development time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, use jet lag for productivity.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. Speaking of things that we normally treat as wasted time, jet lag is often a top of the list. I mean, we all know, when we're jet lagged, you're not going to get anything "meaningful" done in terms of the way that we normally think of meaningful work. I mean, you can't do anything detail-oriented, you're propping your eyelids open, you're not much use, but what I came to realize is that, actually, we can begin to think about that time differently.

Dorie Clark:
Now, I would never say, "Oh, let's do your QuickBooks when you're jet lagged," that would be a bad move, but what I actually did one time, sort of inadvertently, was I was jet lagged on a trip to Russia and I ended up being able to do basically an entire year's worth of strategic planning while I was keeping myself awake at a cafe, partly because when you are jet lagged in that way, when you're half sleep deprived, your brain is able to make creative associations that are not necessarily logical and linear. I was able to be a lot more big picture about my thoughts and it enabled me to do better strategic planning than if I actually had been well slept and in a more logical frame of mind. I think it's really about matching your energy and your state of being to the tasks that are most appropriate at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number three, this one, I love this because it's a strategy that solves the issue of should you follow your passion or should you follow what's going to make a lot of money. You say focus on doing something interesting.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. What I've seen, and I'm sure you probably have too, Bobbi, is that there is so much pressure in our culture to find your passion. What's your passion? You don't know what your passion is? People can feel kind of inadequate and browbeaten at a certain point if you're not following your passion. I know a lot of people, smart, talented, hardworking people, that maybe they've reached a point where they have been working so hard and so long, they might not even necessarily be sure what their passions are anymore. With the work and the kids, they have kind of turned that part off because it's not even something you can really dwell on.

Dorie Clark:
What I wanted to do in my book, The Long Game, was to lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? I mean, is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time." Instead of looking for the passion, instead of looking for the soulmate, what I suggest is just do what's interesting, just explore something that seems interesting. It's a low bar, but almost all of us are at least able to tell, okay, this seems interesting to me or not. Then if it stays interesting, keep moving in that direction, and if it doesn't, it's your signal to pivot. I think that that is sometimes a more sane and sustainable way to begin to move in the direction of things that you care about more.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, that can evolve. We're not going to go too deeply into it because I want people to read it more fully in the book, but one thing you weave throughout the book that I loved hearing about is your passion for theater, which was not something you did as a kid. You weren't a theater kid on stage every day, but you started to develop it and now it's evolving into perhaps a business. I can't wait to see the rest of the story evolve, but it can be something that sort of weaves through your life through different things, even taking a comedy course, different things that you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
But in the interest of moving on, we're going to go to number four because otherwise we'll just go on a million tangents with you. Number four, ask, but wait a year first. Because we do push people to go, go after that mentor, get a champion, get someone who's going to be a sponsor at work, but it's a little delicate. You say a year, that seems so long.

Dorie Clark:
It's true, it's true. I like to be a little extreme in this because I think that we have a cultural problem, because certainly in the United States, but in many other countries as well, where we have internalized way too much, the mentality of, well, it doesn't hurt to ask. I would like to say, actually yes, sometimes it does hurt to ask, because if you are making an inappropriate request too early in a relationship, you will destroy that relationship. Now, where people go sometimes is they say, "Oh, well I don't want to be a wallflower. I don't want to be stupid about things." Well, the point is, it's not that you never ask, it's that you have to let a relationship evolve to the point where the ask is appropriate and contextual.

Dorie Clark:
I mean, I am sure this is probably the case for you, Bobbi, with your business and the media profile that you've cultivated. I certainly experience this as well, where I will meet somebody, maybe at an event, maybe we connect on LinkedIn or something like that, and then five minutes later they're saying, "Oh, hey, I see you're connected to so-and-so," insert super prominent person, "Can you connect us?" It's like, "Wait, I don't even know anything about you." Also, people don't really get this context, but a million people are asking the same thing. I don't want to blow up my relationship with somebody by sending them five random people a day. It's important to be thoughtful and to be judicious.

Dorie Clark:
It's not like ask them anything. If it's like, "Oh, Bobbi, I really like that sweater. Where did you get it?" Fine, ask them that, but I'm talking about wait a year before you ask somebody for something that involves political capital. When you do that, you're able to establish a genuine relationship so that they understand that you are not in it for the wrong reasons and you're not in it to use them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and using is very different from mutually beneficial friendships. There's nothing wrong with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fifth one, my fifth tip I want you to talk about, is patience leads to a payoff, but it's not just patience, you have to not be passive. That's a lot of P words, but yes, patience leads to the payoff, but don't be passive.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. In The Long Game, I have a concept that I write about called strategic patients. This is something that is dear to my heart, because frankly, from the time that I've been a little kid, patience has never been my strong suit. I have not been very good at it, but it is something that I have had to learn over time. I think the part that used to bother me about patience was that it did seem so passive. I mean, the way that it gets talked about oftentimes, and at least how my mom would talk about it, it was like, "Oh, we're just going to sit back, good things will happen. Just be patient, things work out." I can't help it, I'm a little more type A than that. I like to make things happen, not just have them happen.

Dorie Clark:
We understand, of course, we can't make everything happen, but it's important for us to have agency and for us to have autonomy in our lives and to control what we can control. Therefore, I have created essentially a hybrid model of strategic patience, because the truth is, yeah, it takes time, they don't happen as fast as you want, but you don't want to be a sucker about it. So that means actually developing hypotheses about, well, how long should this take and what are the signs that it's working or not working, how can I monitor them and adjust accordingly?

Dorie Clark:
The truth is, there's a lot of power. If something is going to take five years and you know it's going to take five years and you're monitoring for your progress, you're actually able to weather that a lot better. I mean, would it be better if it was fast? Yes, but you're able to weather that in a way that mostly you couldn't if you thought it was going to take six months and then it's not happening, it's not happening. That's when people give up, and they give up prematurely and it means that they are not able to accomplish their dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You give such wonderful and tangible examples of that in the book. My favorite is the headstand example.

Dorie Clark:
Yeah, thank you. This is one of my favorites as well. It actually comes from Jeff Bezos from one of his shareholder letters to Amazon stockholders. He tells the story about how a friend of his hired a handstand coach for yoga, which is pretty funny of a concept, but it turns out it is actually a legit hard to do a handstand. What the handstand coach told Bezos' friend is that the average person guesstimates that it'll take about two weeks of practice in order to be able to do a handstand. That is not the case. It turns out it takes about six months of daily practice to be able to do a yoga handstand.

Dorie Clark:
The lesson I think for all of us is that unless we are thoughtful and deliberate, it is easy to wildly over or underestimate what is going to be necessary for something. We really have to be aware of that. We have to check our assumptions and be thoughtful, because if you think something's going to take two weeks and it ends up taking six months, which is a factor of 12 difference, you're going to give up, you are going to get discouraged. That's true whether your goal is writing a book, whether it's being featured in a high-profile publication, whether it's building a new career. Developing that strategic patience is a really important prerequisite to being able to persevere and succeed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many wonderful insights in your book, The Long Game. I'm looking forward to hearing back from our listeners when they read it, so everyone should check it out. It will be everywhere, so we don't need to go through where your book will be, but where are you if people want to follow up with you?

Dorie Clark:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it. Well, the best place to find me, and also about 700 free articles on my website, is DorieClark.com. For people who are interested in the concept of playing the long game and becoming a more strategic and long-term thinker, I do have a free resource, which is The Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-assessment. Folks can get it for free at dorieclark.com/thelonggame.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much and continued success.

Dorie Clark:
Thanks, Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, did any of you think that it took that long to learn how to do a handstand? Would you hire a coach to teach you that? Yeah, me too. Dorie is so great. I actually went to her website after the interview to get some of her extra materials, very much worth making the effort, everyone, highly recommend.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many highlights from the interview, but the big takeaway for me was really that last part about strategic patience. Sometimes things just take time and if you don't have the right mindset, or in some cases, we don't have the resources to go the distance, we need to get honest about where we are spending our time and the best way to be spending our time. I have definitely been hit up by people very aggressively to make an introduction to other people way too early, so that whole thing really resonated with me. I mean, a year, it sounds like a long time, but time goes pretty quickly and you can't force a relationship. There's so much more in Dorie's latest book, The Long Game. She wasn't kidding, I really did read it intensely and I do plan to reference the book a lot. There's a lot of good stuff there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone, please be in touch. Let me know what resonated with you on this interview and let me know what more you want to hear on the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. Of course, if you want to hear more from me, I would love for you to join my newsletter. Just go to my website, BobbiRebell.com, and sign up there. Big thanks to The Long Game author, Dorie Clark, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley [Wall 00:19:59]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your Grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

I Bonds currently pay 9.62 percent but that is ending very soon. Certified Financial Planner Jeremy Keil joins us to explain what I Bonds are, why the interest rate is expiring and how to decide whether they are right for you. 

---

Follow Jeremy!

• Facebook - @KeilFinancialPartners

• LinkedIn - @jeremykeilfp

• Website - https://keilfp.com/

• Retirement Revealed Podcast

Links in the episode!

• Ibond Form - Form 8888

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Jeremy Keil:
9.62. A great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs. You can't find that in savings accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks, again, with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about savings bonds. Savings bonds used to sound really boring. In fact, they were really boring. The returns were kind of blah, especially compared to other opportunities that were out there. But things are changing. Between the bear market and the rise of inflation, something pretty interesting is happening with what are called I bonds. I as in inflation. Let me say though from the get go that this episode is, as is always the case frankly, for information and hopefully entertainment only. I'm not advising anyone to make any specific investments.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's going to depend on your personal situation and your goals, but you should at least know about different investments, in this case, I bonds, in order to make that decision. So my guest this week is Jeremy Keil. He is a Wisconsin-based financial planner and also the host of the Retirement Revealed Podcast. In our interview, Jeremy and I discuss what I bonds are, how they work, how you can actually buy I bonds. It's not where you think or where you usually get most of your investments. We also talk about how much you can buy. There are limitations and then there's little loopholes. And, most of all, why they are currently paying so much more than other investments. Stay tuned to the end because we also get into some quirks that you really need to know if you are considering putting some money into I bonds. And also a very important deadline. Here is Jeremy Keil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremy Keil, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a Certified Financial Planner. You have your own practice out in Wisconsin and you are also the host of the podcast Retirement Revealed. I asked you to come on because you focused, recently especially, on something that I am incredibly curious about and I think our listeners really need to know about, and that is something called I bonds. So it's a letter I and then the word bonds. Explain what exactly are I bonds and why do we care, especially at this moment in time?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. Well, you right might remember back in the day growing up, your grandparents probably gave you paper savings bonds for a gift. Christmas, birthdays, things like that. I bonds are savings bonds. They're U.S. government bonds. They're no longer on paper. And the I part means it's tied to inflation. And so no one really cared or knew about these until about the middle of 2021 when all of a sudden the rates started getting pretty good.

Jeremy Keil:
Middle of 2021, they were 3.5% and your average bank account was 0.01. And so that was a pretty good deal. Then they went to 7% and now, through the end of October, they're at 9.62%. So if you buy an I bond on October 30 or before that, then the rate will be 9.62%. And I threw in a little funky date there, October 30, because when you buy an I bond, you can only do it through treasurydirect.gov. You got to go direct to the U.S. government. They make it effective the next day. And so if you're on Halloween listening to this, have some fun, but don't bother buying an I bond because October 30 is the last day for the 9.62%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, we want to talk about why these rates are so much higher than other investment options, the risk involved in them, and then also what's going on on October 30. Let's start with, first of all, why are the rates so much higher? What's going on? Is there some kind of disconnect? Because, as we record this, which is October 6 of 2022, we're recording this, the stock market has been kind of a disaster the last few months. People have been losing quite a bit of money depending on where you're invested. And these seem very safe and kind of a no-brainer. How do they work? Why is the interest rate so much higher and why has it jumped so much recently?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, so I'll call it a quirk, not a disconnect. One reason why the stock market's down is because usually the stock market drops when there's a sudden quick inflation. And that's what happened. All of a sudden, inflation just kicked up. It was somewhat a surprise to most everybody. And yet the I bonds, I stands for inflation, they are tied directly to the inflation rate. And so when you see inflation high, that initially usually historically kicks down the stock market, but it's also tied a hundred percent. It kicks up the rates in these I bonds. And so it's also interesting too because usually in the newspapers and the news media, you'll see the 12-month inflation rate. And most of the time in the last year you've seen inflation's at around 8%, which is a pretty high rate. But the way I bonds are figured out is they take the last six months of inflation and they double it.

Jeremy Keil:
You normally see a 12-month rate, but they've looked at the last six months and doubled it. And so back in April of 2022, they had the March numbers and it came out that inflation was 8, 8.5%, whatever it was. But it was kind of a ramping up. The last six months of that 12-months number was really high and that happened to have been the number they use for inflation bonds, the I bonds on there. So 9.62% is the rate for anyone that bought in May of 2022 all the way through the end of October 2022. And that's interesting. 9.62, a great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs, you can't find that in saving accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks again with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on by looking into I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when you're buying an I bond, what kind of account should you put it in? Is it a taxable asset where you should maybe put it in something that's a retirement fund or is it something where you're going to pay tax on? Where is the best place to put these I bonds if you buy them?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. So you used a term taxable. I like to use the term non-IRA. It's just not special. It's just like your bank money. You cannot buy an I Bond inside of a Roth IRA. You cannot buy the I bond inside of your traditional 401k, anything like that. It's basically a replacement for your bank money. If you thought, "I don't need this bank money for the next 12 months or so", then you can put that money into an I bond and think of that 12-month number or 12-month time because you absolutely cannot, no way, get your money out of I bonds for the first 12 months. That's a rule. No matter how hard you try, you're not getting the money out. So the only money you should put into I bonds is money that you expect to not use for at least 12 months because you can't get it out.

Jeremy Keil:
And if you take it out in the first five years, you lose the prior three months interest as a penalty, which sounds big, sounds bad, but when you run the numbers, even after losing that last three months of interest, it still comes out to a pretty good rate. And then that gives us kind of a first tip with I bonds is looking at more a 15-month purchase at the minimum. Because if you really like the interest for the first year and you don't like the interest a year later, well, you want to wait about three months, then cash out your I bond because then you're cashing out and losing the bad interest and holding on to the good interest that you got the first 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you can't buy unlimited amounts of this. There are some caps to how much you can actually buy and then there's sort of a loophole with respect to taxes, to your tax refund.

Jeremy Keil:
A bit of that. So the maximum purchase is $10,000 per person per year. So a lot of people say, "Oh, that's not terribly too much." Most Americans don't have $10,000 in the bank. And so most Americans can benefit by purchasing I bonds and not actually running up against that $10,000 limit. Folks that have more than that and want to buy more than that, well, you might be married. That's 10,000 for you, that's 10,000 for your spouse. You might want to put some in the name of your kids. You might have a revocable living trust because you've done some estate planning and your trust can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds.

Jeremy Keil:
And you might have an LLC. Perhaps you have a business and that business can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds. So there's a lot of, I wouldn't say ways around it, but just knowing the rules that it's per person, per entity, I'd say most couples might be able to get 20,000, maybe even 30,000. Perhaps they could get more depending on what their kid situation is or their business situation is. And, hey, if you max out in one year, wait until January. It's per calendar year. You can get another. It just resets. You get another $10,000 per person or entity once you hit January.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now you talked about October 30 and that's because it's the end of the month and you need 24 hours. You need to buy it one day before the end of the month. What exactly is going to happen in November? I mean, how do we know it's not going to go up and get even better because it feels like inflation is still pretty bad right now.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, you get it. Inflation is bad on a 12-month basis. That's what you normally see. But the I bond rate is based on the prior six months. So the November rate will be based on what happened between March and September. And so far we're about a week away from that number release. So October 13, if you're listening October 13 or later, I'll have that posted right on our podcast website, which is retirement-revealed.com. We're doing the math every month on what the projection will be.

Jeremy Keil:
And, finally, October 13, we'll have the full six months that's on there. So we'll know for sure. But right now it's trending the last two months of inflation have actually gone down. And so you see the numbers that say inflation's 8% above. It's actually reporting 10 months of really bad inflation and the last two months, inflation has actually gone down. We'll see if it happens again for a third month straight. It's just kind of a quirk of how people report inflation with 12-month numbers. I bonds are based on six month numbers and if you really dig into it month by month, which I like to do, you'll notice that the last two months, inflation's actually gone down

Bobbi Rebell:
When you're actually going to buy an I bond, whether it's for money or also you can do it right with a tax refund money as well, right? That's an extra thing?

Jeremy Keil:
Yes. So that's an extra thing. So you could get, on top of the 10,000 per year of online I bonds, you could have your tax refund refunded to you, not direct to your bank, but through I bonds. Those are actually paper. You'll get them in the mail. And so some people are sending in a $5,000 extra payment. It's called a quarterly estimated payment. They're sending in that extra payment early in December or so because they want to file and get an extra refund coming back and they're choosing those paper savings bonds, those I bonds. That's a way to get more I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you could file your taxes. Let's say you got an extension on your taxes and you're filing them in October. You could send in an overpayment and ask for it to come back in the form of an I bond. And that's a way to actually put more money into I bonds if you wanted.

Jeremy Keil:
That's absolutely it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, great. So that happens automatically. That's something you do on the tax form. You can obviously speak to your tax preparer about that or I'm sure there's ways to figure it out through the IRS that it's on the forms, right?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah. That's a form. We'll see if I get you the exact form before we're done talking, but it's a form, I believe. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll figure it out and we're going to put it in the show notes for you, the form that you need, which is going to be on my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, but I'm sure you can also find it on Jeremy's website. So if you're not buying it through a tax refund, do you have to have it through a brokerage account or a savings account or whatever or can you literally just go to treasurydirect.gov and buy it that way? Or do you need it to be in an account?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, that's the only way to buy it is treasurydirect.gov. Yeah, you can not buy I bonds through a brokerage account or a bank. Some people are used to buying them through a bank or a payroll deduction. Those are all old school ways to do it. Treasurydirect.gov. Or, and I found it here, it's form 8888. Easy to remember.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jeremy Keil:
Form 8888, so tell your tax prepare if you want to get those I bonds, "Here's how I want my refund to come out to me" and you can put right in there up to $5,000 of your refund can come out as a I bond.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. Okay. So the limit though for the refund is $5,000. So that kind brings you up to 15,000 per person. Well, I guess it's 5,000 per tax return, right?

Jeremy Keil:
That's exactly it. So a married couple, 10,000 each plus 5,000 for the tax return gets you 25,000 for the year as your maximum.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What else do we need to know before we wrap up?

Jeremy Keil:
When you're thinking of short term money, you deserve more interest. And your bank is out there getting more interest through things like treasury bills or they're loaning out your money to make a better interest rate. I'd encourage you to go get the best interest you can find and it's definitely not your local bank. It's going to be a place like a high yield savings account. It's going to be a place like treasury bills, six month treasury bills especially, are a higher rate right now. But these I bonds have been kind of hot since middle of 2021. They look like they'll continue that way at least through the end of October of a purchase you can get for 12 months and get more interest than you can get anywhere else for 12 months guaranteed. So just look into those things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Tell us where people can find more about you and your podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, we've got the Retirement Revealed podcast, so just look up Retirement Revealed wherever you listen to podcasts. And then if you'd like to learn more about what we do on the retirement planning front, just go to fivestepretirementplan.com and you'll see some videos about here's how we take people through the retirement planning process.

Bobbi Rebell:
And those are great videos. Thank you so much, Jeremy.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, thanks, Bobbi. It's been fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called Clean My Mac. It's from a company called MacPaw.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and Clean My Mac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get Clean My Mac. To get that 10% off Clean My Mac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/Cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you you'll be so happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you guys to be in touch with me, let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it. As you could probably tell, this is not an investment that I have made in the past because the fact is saving bonds have just not been competitive with the stock market. And while I do want to repeat that this is not an endorsement of I bonds, because everyone's financial situation is different, it's important to at least know what's going on so you can make those decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, how are you guys feeling about your investments and are there new kinds of investments or investments that haven't been front and center in recent years, like I bonds, that you want to know more about? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter at BobbiRebell and please go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my free newsletter where you will get more useful investment tips and ideas.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also get the show notes with links to the things that we talk about on this podcast, like that IRS form, which is important. I think that was really interesting. And you can also get full transcripts of every podcast that we do for free. Just go to the podcast dropdown menu right on the top of the page. I also want to thank those of you who have left reviews for the podcast and ask that if you have not to please consider taking a couple minutes to leave one.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know everyone's so busy, but the support is really appreciated and means a lot to me. If it's easier, take a screenshot while you're listening and just post it on social media and tag me so that I can share it as well. And also thank you because it means a lot. It's really important to me to grow the community and get the word out and help more people. So thank you. I also want to thank Retirement Revealed podcast host and financial advisor Jeremy Keil for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Talking Fintok, Robinhood, crypto, meme stocks and getting social with your investing habits with the founders of community investing platform Alinea

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids, and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends, and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super-important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Anam Lakhani:
Investing is such a social habit. I think that's what's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single-player mode, but the reason we're seeing this phenomenon FinTok, which is financial TikTok. And really finance coming in to social media, is because people want to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard, but together, we got this. Okay, my friends. Who here has an investing playlist? You might be inspired to put one together and maybe get some friends into it as well after listening to this episode. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani founded Alinea with a focus on portfolios, which they call playlists. Their app is all about community and education, right down to the much more calming color palette that they have, compared to the jarring bright reds and greens that we see on more of the old-school investing apps. In our interview, the Alinea founders share how they came up with the ideas behind the app that led to them raising a couple million dollars right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, some unique investing tips to get you started or give you a few new ideas to upgrade your investing playlist, AKA portfolio. One highlight to listen for in our interview, their reference to Warren Buffett and how his ideas apply more than ever to today's investor and to the Alinea community. We also get their thoughts on the crypto market, and how to approach that these days as well. No worries as usual about taking notes, we'll have the full transcript for you with the show notes. Here are Alinea founders, Eve Halimi, and Anam Lakhani. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani, you are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before we get started, I forgot to tell you guys this. Whenever we have two guests, I do have each person say hello and their name, so our listeners can tell who is talking at each time. So Eve, say hello.

Eve Halimi:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Eve. All right. Anam, say hello.

Anam Lakhani:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the launch of Alinea. You guys are 25 years old. You're getting a ton of press coverage already. I love this Business Insider headline, the Gen Z founders of Alinea. You raised $2.1 million for your anti-Robin Hood investing app. First of all, do you agree with the headline that you are an anti-Robin Hood investing app? And then tell us more about that. The whole $2 million thing.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think more than anti-Robin Hood, we're anti-day trading. We're anti-having just exclusivity within the investing and financial world. And with Alinea, we're really hoping to bring in a larger demographic, a more inclusive and younger demographic, to the financial world so they can start achieving financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Eve, you guys are so young, and you're both women. We hear so much about how much funding goes to men. Certainly sometimes more seasoned men. How did you guys raise 2 million at this age? Because so many people have aspirational, entrepreneurial ideas, and it's not easy.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah, it was definitely difficult. It was a lot of work, but I mean, when you're so passionate about something and you are so determined and you move fast, you will find the right investors who will back you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Eve Halimi:
We went through Y Combinator. So applying through YC, getting in, which is an incredibly competitive incubator, puts you at an edge and gives you an edge, essentially, when you're fundraising. So investors know you have a stamp of credibility at that time and at that point, which is very helpful for a young entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Anam, how did you guys even get this idea and come together with it? Were you watching apps like Robin Hood? And I don't mean to call them out. I'm just alluding to that Business Insider headline.

Eve Halimi:
We can call them out. We can call them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, you guys do that.

Anam Lakhani:
It's a great story. So we had come together our fall semester of senior year, and we had returned from these internships on Wall Street. We were both studying economics, and there was this big elephant in the room. We didn't know how to invest our own money. We saw this problem with our friends across both genders, honestly. There was definitely a bit of a confidence gap between those two genders, but we saw that there's this huge problem. And it really fundamentally boils down to two things. It's community and education. So there's a lack of community. If you don't know where to start, investing is such a social habit.

Anam Lakhani:
I think that's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single player mode. But the reason we're seeing this phenomenon, FinTok, which is financial TikTok, and really finance coming into social media is because people want to talk about it. And they always have. And the second component is education. Only 14 states in the United States mandate personal finance classes in high school. And even being at Columbia University, studying economics, we still didn't have that personal finance knowledge. So those were two things we wanted to tackle to really make investing more inclusive and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I noticed is that even during the pandemic, people were craving that social interaction. There was a lot of discussion of stocks, like meme stocks on places like Reddit and obviously TikTok, with FinTok and MoneyTok. People are craving that social interaction, but it can also be dangerous. So it's interesting that you guys have a place where maybe there could be more vetted conversations with people that are not necessarily, well, sometimes you don't know what people's motives are. But there's a lot of people that got sucked into a gamification of investing, rather than having your peers as a support system in the way that you set up the app. And obviously, I am alluding to the gamification that we see in places like Robin Hood. Can you talk a little bit about the way that your app, that Alinea is set up, and how you avoid gamification and yet support community?

Anam Lakhani:
We really think about it as this long-term journey you're on. It's like your fitness journey. If you're going to the gym, you have a gym buddy, you're talking to your friends about it. You have a community where you often go to, and that's so prevalent with fitness. And we wanted to really foster and create this community where it's not just about making the next buck as quickly as possible, but really being consistent and staying on this path. And so everything from the design of the app, to our messaging, to really our values as a brand and a community boil down to that. This is not something that you're going to make a quick buck on, but really to have people close to you for the long ride.

Eve Halimi:
Unlike other investing apps, we never really focus on the single stocks and single stock mentality. We always focused on portfolios and ETFs, which we renamed as playlists, investing playlists to make them more accessible. And we also never really leaned into the red and the greens, the really intense colors that make you panic. We kept pastel colors and more neutral colors.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, because especially with the stock market as rough as it has been for so many people, and really many people certainly, and Gen Z have not in their lifetime, seen a bear market in their experience like we see now. I think calming colors is so important. Those subtle touches. And I do love the idea of a playlist, because it does make it so much more accessible. And it also makes it something that you want to talk about in a positive sense, not in a sense of panic or a braggy sense. Because what I would overhear, and I'm dating myself here, but among my young adult children in the pandemic was, "Oh my gosh, my friend bought shares of Hertz and of AMC, and they're making so much money. Maybe I should be buying that now too." And it was a FOMO mentality. This is very different, right?

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think from the get-go, we really push people to invest in ideas and what they believe in, whether that's a cause or an industry. And when you frame it that way, the conversation becomes a lot different. You are literally invested, as opposed to making the next big buck on AMC or GameStop. Because it truly aligns with your identity. And I think what the financial world hasn't seen is these elements of creativity and authenticity come into their own personal finances. And that's what we're really trying to do at Alinea.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, you did bring some investing tips for our financial grownups. So let's just go through them. You have three main ones, and then something I want to send people to on your app that I think will be really great. So the first tip has to do with spreading the love a little bit, right?

Anam Lakhani:
Hundred percent. This is a journey, it's a long-term journey. So bring your friends into the conversation, talk to them about it. I started investing because of Eve. And we would always have conversations, and she would suggest investments to me. So it's really important to have your friends along for the ride, not only to just be more knowledgeable, but also have that motivation and support.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you start a conversation with friends about investing, especially when people have different resources to invest different stages of their life, depending on what's going on? There could be a wide variety at your age, or at any age, frankly.

Eve Halimi:
I think the first conversation that starts with investing money is where do I start? What do I even start with? I don't know how much to invest and I don't know what to invest in. And that's where friends and a community is really helpful. Because you're all alone with all these questions at the beginning, with no support system.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then you obviously want to supplement it with trusted sources. And by the way, Alinea does have a ton of editorial content. And that's really important, because not all of your friends will be as knowledgeable as they think they are. And I guess I'm putting that kindly. There are people that sometimes do get caught up in all the chit chat and maybe believe that they're very well-intentioned, but they may not have the best advice. So always, of course, be true to yourself. Your goals may be very different from your friends, and your resources may be very different. So you don't want to stretch yourself too far. Another thing is to diversify. So tell us about that second tip.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah. We're big fans of Warren Buffett at Alinea. So as Warren Buffett advises new investors is to start with the S&P 500. And that's the number one investing tip we give to new users getting on the app, because you can start investing in the S&P with as little as a dollar. It's a great way to diversify your in investments and to spread your first initial investment across the top 500 US companies.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I mean, diversification, it's key to Alinea. We built Alinea so you don't have to worry about, am I picking the right company? Because there's no such thing as the right company. It's about making sure that you're investing, based on your identity and causes and industries you truly care about, and you think that are going to succeed over the next five to 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your third investing tip has to do with really making it a habit, investing regularly.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's important.

Eve Halimi:
Dollar cost averaging is a strategy we all employ here. Recurring investments is one that we opt in all the time, because timing the market is not as great as time in the market.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. A hundred percent. Just investing very, it is a habit. It's like, you can't go to the gym once. You can't eat a salad once or twice a year. That's not enough, and you're not going to see the best results that way. And so really making it consistently a habit. I think people are always surprised by how much further a little amount can go if you're regular about it. And it's just not about throwing chunks in when you feel like it's the right time. It also really alleviates the pressure when you're doing it regularly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Yes. So I want to ask you guys before I let you go, tell me your thoughts on the crypto market. Because that's something where a lot of people had FOMO, and then finally jumped in, only to see the value of their crypto go down. And in some cases, depending where it was kept, really not even have access to it to even liquidate if they wanted to. What is your take on crypto? What is your advice to people who have invested in crypto, or are interested in the market in general?

Anam Lakhani:
This is a perfect example of why diversifying your investment is so important. It's totally okay. I'm a crypto investor and I have a little bit of money there, but it's also important to have your money in other places as well, like stocks or bonds. And making sure you have that diversification. If you have invested in crypto, I think as an investor, you need to ask yourself if your thesis truly stands true to you. If you are a believer in the technology and what's behind it, definitely don't just panic and sell because you're seeing other people doing that. Crypto's a newer asset, and the cyclicality and volatility of it is much higher because of that.

Eve Halimi:
But also, I will say, we are seeing more and more correlations between the equity space and the crypto space. And in my vision of things, I do think the crypto space, because it's gotten so affected in the past few months, is going to get less affected as compared to the equity space. And I will say, do not invest in a cryptocurrency without reading the white paper without doing your research. It's very important that you understand the tech behind it, and you understand the value proposition of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's interesting. I love that you guys said that, because it really is true. People do want to take shortcuts. They do want to just get a tip from, whether it's TikTok or Reddit and so on. What's your warning to them, to people that just sort of, we value our peers' advice. That was your first tip, but that doesn't mean you don't also do separate homework. Some of which can be really hard. It's not easy to just read all the little fine print, Eve. It's intimidating.

Eve Halimi:
That is true. But I think there's a ton of resources out there. It doesn't take too long to do some quick Google searches and to find, especially we have a ton of resources on our blog, on our website, about crypto. I believe that you shouldn't be putting in money into a cryptocurrency or into the markets in general without doing some kind of research.

Anam Lakhani:
And it's also about staying true to yourself. Why are you doing this? Why are you investing in that? Do you really believe that this is something that you believe is going to increase in value? So having that personal thesis as well, you see a lot of professional investors have a thesis, and it's important to have that personal thesis as you go along this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Just tell me a little bit more about the concept of a personal thesis when it comes to investing.

Anam Lakhani:
I was talking to one of our community members and he said, he's like, "I'm long FinTech. I truly believe that FinTech, I know it's crashing and sinking and tumbling, but I'm long FinTech. I believe in the industry. And I know it's going to come up." And I was so impressed, because this individual has a personal thesis. So it's important to have that just so again, takes the pressure off, and you're remaining true to yourself and thinking with that thesis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. You guys have amazing resources on Alinea, one of which is a quiz. Tell me a little bit about that.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. So I mean, one of the pain points we saw is our community members just didn't know where to start investing, or what to invest in. And so we thought, let's make this a little bit easier. And we developed a quiz in-house that creates a playlist for you, based on your interest, risks and company you're excited about.

Eve Halimi:
And a playlist, just to recap, is a mini-portfolio, essentially, a mini-baskets of investments that can be stocks, ETFs, crypto, and bonds. We really help you based on what your risk outlook is, what's the investing space, and your interests are to construct a portfolio from the get-go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are great. Thank you for joining me. Tell us more about where people can find not just Alinea, but also you guys on social and be in touch.

Eve Halimi:
Our website is Alinea-invest.com, and there you'll find all our socials. We're Alinea Invest on most of our social platforms, on TikTok, on Instagram and so on. We also have personal accounts for Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani that you can follow, where we're constantly trying to provide more and more investment education.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you both.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it was interesting to note that the ladies are seeing more correlation between the crypto space and the equity space. But also take note of their warning to make sure if you do invest in crypto, you must read the white paper and do your research. You. On you, not on your friends, on you. So you understand the technology and the value proposition. Don't just go on a tip from a friend from Reddit or from FinTech. You need to do the work. It's your investment. I would love to hear your thoughts on Alinea and other new investing apps that are becoming available and taking a different approach. Are you open to these new platforms? Are you looking for them? What do you want? What new features appeal most to you? Do you have a playlist that you want to share? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell. And please check out my new TikTok channel.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am trying my best. I would love all of your support. My TikTok channel is actually a finalist for a Plutus Award. So I'm so excited about that. You can check it out just under my name, Bobbi Rebell on TikTok. And if you are not already subscribed or a follower of this podcast, please click that button and consider writing a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I not only appreciate the support, I really need it. So thank you in advance for that. It means a lot. Check out Alinea's quiz, by the way, that the ladies mentioned. That can help you create your first playlist, AKA a mini-portfolio for you. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes, along with all of their social handles. And big thanks to Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani of Alinea for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Bobbi chats with popular author and keynote speaker Whitney Johnson about how we can disrupt the traditional ways of talking to our kids about money to meet them where they are, boost their confidence and get comfortable revealing own financial struggles.   

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Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - https://whitneyjohnson.com

• This episode - https://whitneyjohnson.com/282-bobbi-rebell-raising-our-kids-to-be-financial-grown-ups

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Money can be one of the hardest things to talk about with your kids- because it is so emotional and because we as parents often hide our own struggles from our kids. 

I have spent the past few months since the release of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life While Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart” talking to a long list of exceptional journalists, podcast hosts and experts. 

And one of the real stand out ones was with someone who is very familiar to many of you because I have had her on repeatedly to share her wisdom with our financial grownup community. It is Whitney Johnson and for those of you who are not yet subscribed to her Disrupt Yourself podcast you are in for a treat. Guests on the podcast have included the world’s best thinkers and do-ers: names like Adam Grant, Simon Sinek, Benee Brown and Susan Cain- and recently yours truly. 

I feel honored to be in such incredible company- and you may hear me getting a little nervous in this interview but Whitney got a lot of stuff out of me that I don’t normally discuss in public and she also adds in her exceptional take on how we can teach the next generation about money. 

I’m so excited to share my chat with Whitney Johnson on her Disrupt Yourself podcast. 

Bobbi shares her chat with Popcorn Finance podcast host Chris Browning. They focus on the best ways to transition teenagers to financial independence and more. 

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Follow Chris!

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• YouTube

• Website - https://popcornfinance.com/

• Chris’ episode featuring Bobbi

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

We are in full back to school season and for parents it is a big time of transition. Our kids are ready to do things - but sometimes we aren’t ready to let them. This gets amplified when we have teenagers- those of you who aren’t there yet- just go with it and trust me. You are in for a ride. 

That’s why I loved my discussion with Chris Browning on his Popcorn Finance podcast. We talk about how transitioning from dependent teen to a financially independent grown up can be extremely tough, not only for that individual, but also for their parents 

Chris and I break down how to discuss money and plan for the future from both the parents and the children's perspective. So whether you're a parent or just have a young person you care about- you will get so much out of this episode. 

And don’t forget to follow or subscribe to the popcorn finance podcast. The format is great and Chris covers so many topics - each episode is short but I will warn you- popcorn finance is bingeworthy and you will have a hard time pressing pause. 

Enjoy my chat with Chris Browning on the Popcorn Finance podcast. 

Bobbi joins Marriage Kids and Money host Andy Hill to talk about everything from realistic money discussions with kids, letting your emerging adults make money mistakes and preventing boomerang kids. 

Bobbi Rebell and Andy Hill review the following:

• The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

• Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

• The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

• How to prevent boomerang kids

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Follow Andy!

• Instagram - http://instagram.com/andyhillmkm

• Facebook - http://facebook.com/andyhillmkm

• Twitter - http://twitter.com/andyhillmkm

• Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/andyhillmkm

• YouTube - http://youtube.com/MarriageKidsandMoney

• Website - https://marriagekidsandmoney.com/

• Andy’s podcast episode featuring Bobbi
  

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Worried about your adult child moving back home? You're not alone! Boomerang kids are a group of adult children who move back in with their parents after going out into the world. 

John, a concerned parent of a teen, wants to make sure his daughter doesn’t do this! 

Author Bobbi Rebell joins me to share how we can get adult children to launch (and stay launched).

Bobbi Rebell and I review the following:

• The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

• Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

• The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

• How to prevent boomerang kids
  

2022 is past the halfway mark. Everyone’s Talkin’ Money podcast host Shannah Game keeps us on track to make sure we don’t miss out before December 31 comes along. 

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Follow Shannah!

• Instagram - @shannahgame

• Twitter - @ShannahGame

• LinkedIn - @shannahcompton

• Website - http://www.shannahcompton.com

• Podcast - Everyone’s Talkin Money

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Shannah Game:
It's a great time to kind of check in. We've got six months left. So things like if you have a flexible spending account, how are you tracking with that? If you have a health savings account, an HSA account, are you really utilizing those benefits as well? And then another thing to focus on as we get closer to open enrollment later this year is really thinking about, are there any health changes that you see coming up next year?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Time flies, we know, but missing deadlines can cost you. It gets really expensive when it comes to our money. That is why I invited one of my favorite money experts back on the show. She's going to make sure we are all on track for the money moves that we have to be making between now and the end of the year. Shannah Game is a certified financial planner and the host of the podcast, Everyone's Talkin' Money, formerly known as Millennial Money. We're going to talk about that. This podcast, my friends, get this, 20 million downloads. Yep. And it's because she's that good. Shannah's amazing so let's get to her. Here is Shannah Game. Shannah Game, you're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Shannah Game:
Thanks so much. Such a pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to celebrate with you because you have reached an important milestone in your podcasting journey. Your podcast, which we're going to talk about the name of it in a moment, has had more than 20 million downloads. That's incredible.

Shannah Game:
Thank you. It's a little hard to fathom myself that many people listen to me and other people babble on about money, but it's happened. Yeah. It has been incredible. It's grown primarily just organically through people sharing the show. It's a love of mine. I love talking to people. I love podcasting. So I'm just so enthusiastic that it's resonating.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're also really good at it. You definitely do not babble on in your podcast. I think you've helped so many people. The podcast for most of its many, many millions of downloads has been called The Millennial Money Podcast. And you've made a recent change. Tell us about the change and the thinking behind it.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. It was kind of like a itch that I had for many years and I just didn't know what to do about it. I started the podcast under Millennial Money after an article that I wrote went viral and I thought, okay, there's something to Millennial. And me myself, I'm kind of on that cusp between Millennial and Gen X, depending on which age group survey you're looking at. And so I thought, okay, this is really ... Millennial Money is a strong name, it was available when I started the show in 2015 and kind of took off after that. But I launched the show in 2015. Over the years, I've just thought, I want this show to be more relevant, more inclusive, and to open it up to kind of any age demographic and really be the place where people are welcomed in, they have a place that is a safe place to really learn about money and hear about all of these different topics.

Shannah Game:
And so we'd been playing around with this idea for quite some time. And last year we decided, okay, we're going to make the name change this year. It took us 4 months to find a name that wasn't taken. It's a little bit more challenging now in 2022. And so the name we came up with is Everyone's Talkin' Money. And it's just this safe place that you can come to and hear all of these different conversations around money from lots of different perspectives and lots of different topics.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I also think that it makes a lot of sense because your show has always been so inclusive. And as people can tell, just from listening to your voice, you have such a calming way about you, Shannah, that I think makes everyone just feel like everything is going to be okay when it comes to our money. Because so many of us have anxieties, and fears, and concerns about money and often a lack of confidence. And I feel like when I listen to your podcast, whatever the name, I always feel a little bit better. And I feel like things are going to be okay. So I've asked you to give us a little bit of a teaser of some of the information that everyone can get when they're listening to your podcast, which everyone, if anyone here is not already listening, should be listening to Everyone's Talkin' Money. You brought three sort of midyear tips for our listeners when it comes to money. And the first one has to do with really being intentional, which is so you. I mean, it's just so perfect for you to speak about.

Shannah Game:
Yeah, I'm a big fan of intentionality when it comes to money because you and I both know that about 90% of money success is mental. It's what's going on in your brain, your thoughts, your feelings, your money story, all of this plays into the decisions that you make with your money. But most people don't spend time thinking about that. They're only focused on the how around money. So when I talk about spending with intention, I always focus on asking why? I say at least three times before you make a purchase. Why do I want this? Why is it important? And why do I need it now?

Shannah Game:
You can really get easily focused solely on just saving money. But I think without focusing on cutting out your coffees and all of those things that you really love in your life, focus on bringing some intentionality to your spending and just taking some time to pause and check in before you make a purchase. Like, does this make sense for me to buy right now? The answer can be yes. I mean, that's the beauty of finance. It's personal. So it could be, yes, absolutely. I want to buy this thing regardless, or it could be no, wait, I want to actually move that money towards one of my money goals. So it's giving yourself more control over your money versus letting it just kind of take you by the whim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you share a real life example from either you or somebody in your friends or family that has had that experience? What would be a real world application of that?

Shannah Game:
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned that. We just did an episode on revenge spending.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ooh, I love that.

Shannah Game:
Which was fascinating because we all have just come out of this pandemic. And so it's easy for us to feel like we want to do all the things and go all the places and buy all the things. And so we talked about bringing this intentionality and something that I shared, which was actually sort of a revenge spend purchase if you will, is I got a puppy in March. She was a little bit expensive. We bought all the toys and she's already had to go to the vet several times. The intentionality behind that was, this is something that is very important to me. She's actually going to be a service dog for me in the future. We took that money and said, okay, this is what we want to do. So although it may have seemed a little bit of a ridiculous amount of money to spend maybe to somebody else. To us, we took the time, we understood how this was going to impact our other money goals. And we said, yeah, this is what we want to do with our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. And let me tell you as the parent of Waffles and the grandmother of Wally, who my listeners probably heard about last week from my episode with my stepdaughter, Ashley. She has the most adorable Maltese that she just recently adopted. You will never go wrong with a puppy. That is priceless. All right, let's go to money tip ... I could talk about puppies so we must move on. Number two, you want to talk to us, you have some money tips when it comes to investing, which is so topical right now because the market has just been brutal. Almost anything you may have invested in whether it is something riskier like crypto, or just a diversified portfolio, this has been a tough time recently.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. And there can be a lot of anxiety right now that comes from what's going on. I mean, many young investors, this is kind of the first glimpse they're seeing of a bear market. And I think it's important to always just kind of zoom out. Zoom out from all of the headlines, and all the kind of fear tactics that are going on right now, and really root back into your investing goals. Why are you investing? It's a great time to maybe hire a CFP or some other financial professional to figure out, okay, what am I actually invested in? Do I need to make some changes?

Shannah Game:
And although this may seem a little bit illogical, I also think it's a great time to maybe up your percentage of investing a little bit. Maybe if you've got a raise at work or if you're freelance and maybe you got a couple of extra contracts this year, it might be a good time to just say, okay, stocks are down, but let me put a little bit more money in because I know everything is cyclical and everything is going to eventually turn back. Even if we have a year or two of a bear market, we know from history that nothing lasts forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that perspective because the truth is if stocks are down across the board and you're not investing in a specific company that may have a specific problem. In general, if they're down across the board, this can be a great time to get in at basically buying stocks on sale. So it can be something that is also, as you said, very wisely, a good time to talk to an outside professional that can give you a third party perspective. And that can sometimes provide a lot of motivation, even though sometimes it's an expense, it is often worth it to have that outside opinion when it comes to how you're allocating your resources. Okay. The third thing, maybe the most important really, and it has to do with wellness because that is actually so very much tied to money.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. As we're recording this right now, we're in July, kind of midyear, and this is such a great time for healthcare checkups, to make sure you're using your benefits. I think we can go through the year and maybe we have a lot of benefits that are covered in our plan that maybe we haven't used. Maybe you have some eyecare benefits or dental benefits. I know I hate going to the dentist.

Bobbi Rebell:
We all do.

Shannah Game:
I have to be pulled basically, like you're missing out on this benefit, but it's a great time to kind of check in. We've got six months left. So things like if you have a flexible spending account, how are you tracking with that? If you have a health savings account, an HSA account, are you really utilizing those benefits as well? And then another thing to focus on as we get closer to open enrollment later this year is really thinking about, are there any health changes that you see coming up next year? Like, are you planning to get pregnant? Are you planning a surgery? Do you know anything that might be coming up next year to make sure that you choose a health plan, that's really going to provide you the best benefits for the next year?

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's really important because when that window does come up for your re-enrollment and choosing your benefits, it's often a very short window, sometimes just 10 days. So you want to prepare and make those decisions and make sure also that you have it on your calendar, because sometimes it might be an email that goes into spam or a piece of snail mail that you just don't notice that maybe you don't really see, or you don't act on. You want to make sure that you've set reminders in your calendar for when your company's open enrollment is because you do not want to miss that window. It can get very expensive. So those are great tips. Before I let you go, congratulations again, on Everyone's Talkin' Money. We know everyone that's listening to me probably already is listening to you, but if they're not, we know they have to be, so everyone get on board. Where can people find out more about you and follow you on all the social channels and learn more about your next ventures?

Shannah Game:
Absolutely. Yes. Thanks for having me. If you're interested in listening to the podcast, it's Everyone's Talkin'. That's T-A-L-K-I-N, Talkin' Money. You can find that on absolutely any podcast player and we're launching our new website this month. So that will be everyonestalkinmoney.com. We're going to have all sorts of fun freebies over there. And if you want to follow me on social, I'm most active on Instagram, just at Shannah Game.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Shannah Game:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I always feel so much better about money after talking with Shannah. In fact, I think I feel better about life in general. She just has this wonderful way about her. And by the way, her podcast comes out three times a week so there is plenty of information there for all of you grownups. I have one more tip that I want to add to though. When it comes to the annual enrollment, don't assume the benefits are the same as they were last year or the year before. And especially before the pandemic. So many companies have added or adjusted their benefits to support their employees who work from home. So be sure to look closely. There may be some really cool things that you don't even know about. Okay, my friends, what are your midyear money tips? I would love to hear them. So please be in touch on whatever social channel you like.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, Bobby Rebell. And by the way, I am also trying my best over on TikTok, but I could really use your support. That is also just under my name, Bobby Rebell. I post a lot of clips of my appearances on local news, mainly because people seem to like them. They get a good response. I'm not really sure what I'm doing over there. But anyway, please follow me there, and like, and comment. You can also send me tips on how to improve the TikTok channel, of course. And let me know if you are a listener in the comments of one of my TikTok videos so that I can follow you back and I can also support your work. Thank you so much to Everyone's Talkin' Money's Shannah Game for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbyrebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at, bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we've got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Ashley Kaufman, who bought her NYC apartment at age 24 shares how she did it, plus her best money tips for financial grownups. 

Money Tips

• Be the planner of the friend group

• Always be searching for discounts

• Have a monthly self reflection session on your spending

• Don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means, do not spend more than you have

• Always buy pet insurance!

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Follow Name!

• Instagram - @ashleykaufman and @walnutthemaltese
  

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ashley Kaufman:
When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices. Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this. Hey grownups, welcome to episode 400 of this podcast. You are in for a very special treat. I have a guest that is making her podcast debut, and you're going to absolutely love her.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big question I am constantly asked about my new book, Launching Financial Grownups is, did your stepdaughter really buy her apartment at age 24? Then, how did she do it? Then, how can we do it? Well, the truth is, she focused and she made some really tough choices. It was not all perfect to say the least. Ashley also truly embraced the financial grownup lifestyle. You're going to hear more about that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley wrote the epilogue to the book, Launching Financial Grownups, but until now no one has heard directly from her about all the details. Ashley not only reveals in her interview exactly how she did it and what she might do differently, she also is going to share her top money tips, including some that I am adopting myself. Yeah, you can tell I'm pretty proud of her. Here is my 25-year-old stepdaughter, Ashley Kaufman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Kaufman, you are a financial grownup and I can't believe I'm saying that after I've known you since you were eight years old. Oh my gosh. Welcome.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you for having me. Can't believe it's taken this long to get on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. First of all, let me just say that you're the first of your siblings to come on the podcast, and your father has come on for our Summer Watch Series, and he does want to return. But he never came on to give actual money advice, money tips like you are, so you are special, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to get to your money tips, which by the way, a lot of people know you because you wrote the epilogue to Launching Financial Grownups. It's been a big hit. Everyone says that is the best part of the book. I get a lot of people asking me something that we talk about in the book, which is the fact that you bought an apartment at age 24. I want to give you a chance to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do it in short, but also how has it been? Because the book was written really a year ago, more than a year ago at this point and a lot has happened.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I was able to do it in short, by saving a lot, living at home after college and saving every dollar that I made. Immediately after graduating from college, I picked up a summer job, even though I had a job starting in August where I work now. I picked up that job with the intention of continuing to save and aggressively saving so that I could buy an apartment and move out.

Ashley Kaufman:
Not that I didn't enjoy living at home and eating with Harry every night, but when you're 22 and moving home after college, you really want to move out and live your own life like all of your friends are. So it was definitely hard in that regard just because I saw my friends living their own lives, renting apartments all over the city and furnishing them and making it their own space. I felt a little claustrophobic, just kind of like, I don't have my own space. I'm living at home.

Ashley Kaufman:
But in the end it's been worth it. I absolutely adore where I live now. It took a little bit of adjustment after moving in also to just make it feel like home, and it's taken the majority of the year to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I get to asking you about how it is living in your own apartment, tell me about the choices that you had to make, because it sounds simple, "Well, I just saved a lot of money by living with my parents." But it's not really that simple. You did have to make some choices and you did miss out on some things or make adjustments to your plans many times.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I think COVID helped a lot and not being able to go out with friends. I did also miss out on some things my friends were doing, like going to music festivals, which in retrospect seems like it was a massive waste of money anyway, but seeing all my friends there and having a good time, it definitely felt like I was missing out on something.

Ashley Kaufman:
There were also times where my friends would be going out to brunch every week and I just wouldn't go along with them because every dollar ended up counting. I was really tight when I did put the down payment down on my apartment and then had to go buy furniture, so every dollar ended up adding up to allowing me to live where I am now.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that stuck with a lot of people in the epilogue in Launching Financial Grownups is you said something like, "I love Excel. I'm an Excel kind of girl." How did you use systems to help you save the money, track money, and then help you when you were moving into this apartment and setting up your own home?

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I do love Excel. I took a course on Excel in college, and since then, just everything has been in Excel. I have my monthly budgeting in there, which I have since college. I have a list of my running expenses that are the same every month, as well as a list of things I would like to do that month. If it doesn't add up to have me saving what I would like to be saving every month, I will make cutbacks and adjust, but Excel really runs my life.

Ashley Kaufman:
I mean, I have tabs for vacations I want to go on, I have tabs for, here's an expense that comes up once a year, like renewing my pass to the zoo, which I really enjoy, but I have to budget for that. It helps me keep track of that. When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices.

Ashley Kaufman:
Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what advice would you give to other people that have short-term, but big goals? Not necessarily buying an apartment, because not everybody wants to do that. It's not the right choice for everybody. People might want to move around, have other priorities, but if they have a short-term goal, what's the best way to get there?

Ashley Kaufman:
To really take a step back and look at what you're spending and do I really need be doing this? I mentioned earlier that I have a zoo membership. Maybe every year, I don't need to renew that if I don't see myself going, and I have a financial goal that I need to hit, or let's say something like I've been looking into buying a new couch. There's small steps that you can take to get to where you need to go by just taking that step back and reviewing all of those choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just being accountable and doing a self-audit of where you are right now and what matters most to you for that season of your life.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. That goes into our money tips that you brought with you that are new money tips, but I think makes so much sense for everybody, not just young people, but it's very relatable, certainly in the young adult phase of life that you're in and you're 25 years old right now. I can't believe it.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first of five money tips that we're going to get into has to do with, I would call it the FOMO thing, like your peer group and what's going on there. What's your money tip there?

Ashley Kaufman:
My money tip for friend groups is to always be the planner in the friend group, by being the planner, you can be cognizant of other people's requirements while also staying within your own budget. If people want to go out at night to say a club or something, you don't have to go to the fanciest nightclub to go have a good time with your friends. Some people might want to in your friend group, but other people might not be able to afford it.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can really make sure that you are courteous towards others while also staying within your own budget and maybe the budgets of your friends, if you're aware of their needs and requirements financially as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because we tend to think just reflect on ourselves like, "Wow, this is a stretch for me financially." But we also may not realize that it may be a stretch for everybody, but nobody really wants to say anything. It's actually a really considerate thing of your friend group to bring up the cost and to be the planner and control those things. Your second money tip is something your dad has gotten so good at and I'm so proud of him, and it has to do with making a little extra effort when you're buying stuff.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes. My second tip would be to always search for discounts, which goes back into being a planner. If you want something, wait for it to go on sale, wait to find a discount of some sort. If it's travel, be planning over a year in advance and make sure that you are tracking any sort of discount. Marriott hotels I know specifically you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance or up to 48 hours in some cases so it doesn't hurt to book something while you're searching for something else, or searching for a better deal.

Ashley Kaufman:
There are also corporate discounts to look at at larger companies. Discounts through loyalty programs. I'll occasionally get something in my inbox from Marriott due to my status. You get X, Y, and Z number of extra points for participating in this program we have going on, or memberships like Costco. Costco Travel actually has some great deals to be found.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Your money tip number three has to do, I think, with the ultimate in wellness and self-care.

Ashley Kaufman:
My third money tip is to always have a monthly reflection session. Whether you think that you need it or you don't, you probably do. It's just sitting down with your monthly credit card statements and your bank statements, and just seeing where there could be changes. It doesn't necessarily need to be cutting things, but it could be you have a subscription service like Ipsy or Birchbox, but every time you walk into TJ Maxx or Petco, you're buying makeup or things for your dog.

Ashley Kaufman:
You could be canceling those subscriptions and spending it on items that you really want, rather than what's just showing up in a subscription box.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's really good advice. I'm going to give that some thought, because I have a makeup/skincare subscription box that comes four times a year, that I do love the surprise element of it, but the truth is that they're not necessarily things that I would buy. I'm going to take that one to heart, Ashley. All right. The next one has to do with really the emotional elements. It's an emotional money tip.

Ashley Kaufman:
My next tip would be to don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means. Don't spend more than you have, but don't make yourself feel bad for going out for a $5 coffee with your friends. I'm very guilty of this.

Ashley Kaufman:
I will occasionally cancel plans because I feel like it's not within my budget and it makes you feel bad because number one, you're ruining relationships with friends, and number two, you're really are developing an unhealthy relationship with money, where you feel like you have to cut something else in order to make up for something that really isn't hurting you that much.

Ashley Kaufman:
If it's not within your means, go ahead, cancel the coffee date with your friends. But if it's really not going to stop you from paying your bills that month, it might be okay to spend a little extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would add that don't forget that at many coffee shops like Starbucks, even though you think the smallest one is a tall, there's actually a short, which is even cheaper. You can get a short, plain coffee and have your coffee plans and not spend as much money as you... You don't have to spend for the 7 or $8 fancy espresso drink.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number five is my favorite of all, because you are a new pet owner, which is something that you did wait to do until you could afford it. We had a lot of financial discussions as a family because you have a dependent, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. Yeah. We just brought home my little dog, Walnut. She's a Maltese puppy. She is my entire world, but my tip related to dogs would be to always buy pet insurance, cats, dogs, whatever you can insure, always insure your pets. It should never be a question of whether you can afford care for your animal. I built my $500 deductible into my emergency fund when I went and signed up for pet insurance.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know that if something happens with my dog, it's a $500 deductible that I've covered in my emergency fund and then my insurance will cover 90% of it. I don't have to worry about calling the vet for the smallest of things. My dog had an episode in the middle of the night a few weeks ago where she was shaking. It wasn't super concerning, but I didn't hesitate to call the vet and find out that it was probably normal because I knew that I could cover the cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember when you were thinking about adopting a dog, that you really in advance researched all the costs, including medical costs. I think that was so important because it is a dependent and it is important to understand the full scope of what you could be in store for, because you love your puppy. You're never going to say no and it's important to know what you're in store for. I was so proud of you just in the run-up to getting Walnut.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, final thoughts and where can people be in touch with you? I know Walnut, the Maltese, is a big star as well so people might want to follow her.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can follow me on Instagram @AshleyKaufman or Walnut @Walnutthemaltese. Walnut is much more interesting on Instagram than I am, I have to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are the brains behind the Walnutthemaltese Instagram account, so you get credit for both accounts. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Walnut is starting to get inquiries for brand deals. She is so unbelievably cute. Feel free to DM @Walnutthemaltese on Instagram. I loved how candid Ashley was about the importance of having a healthy relationship with money and prioritizing living your life. She's okay missing some music festivals that frankly, she probably just wasn't that into anyway, but she does kick herself for foregoing coffee plans with a friend because she's so committed to staying on budget. It's delicate.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've talked about my own issues letting go and letting myself spend money. The lines are blurry on this, but when it comes down to it, money is the means to do what you want, so do what you want. Apply that thinking and don't let an unhealthy relationship with money keep you from living your life. I would tell everyone to replay this episode, but the truth is, we have it all for you in the show notes. Just go to my website at bobbirebell.com for those. It also will give you a full transcript.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also can sign up for our newsletter there, where we send podcast previews and interesting news articles to you just twice a month. I haven't asked this in a while, but please take a minute and write a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy listening to us. That wraps up episode 400. Biggest thanks to all of you for supporting the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, please help me get the word out. Tell a friend, share on social and just keep listening and being in touch on all the socials. Big thanks to Ashley Kaufman for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney, host of the Mommy’s on a Call podcast shares easy and fun tips for getting kids on the right track to be Financial Grownups

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse because their girlfriend had, it's because they wanted it because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of launching Financial Grownups, because you know what grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Haven't we all been there? Seeing something cool that our friends have or hearing about an amazing vacation we would love to go on, but it's not always in our budget. For parents, if that want is coming from our kids, it's tough, but it can also be an opportunity. And that's what we are talking about today with our guest. Stephanie Uchima is a business strategist, wellness coach and the host of the podcast, Mommy's on a Call. She's a mom of three who has learned to leverage those kid-driven wishlist into really effective money lessons. She uses everyday events as well as planned games and experiences to make money lessons real. And her tips are for more than moms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie and I talk about so many great things, including the stock market game, which she will explain, it's for older kids and getting your kids to open up about what they really want when they ask for expensive things and pricey vacations. The truth is that's not often what they're actually after. Here is Stephanie Uchima. Stephanie Uchima-Carney, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am a huge fan of your podcast, by the way, which is Mommy's on a Call. You're also a business strategist and a wellness coach. And of course, because your podcast is Mommy's on a Call, you also are the mom of three kids. So welcome.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me. Yes. Three little kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Three very little kids, one of which was a pandemic baby, so you have your hands full. we recently connected at a conference and we were talking a lot about, because I write about teaching older kids about money, you have a passion for teaching the youngest children about money. And so I asked you to come on here to give some tips to people who may have younger kids in their lives, their own kids maybe, maybe their grandkids, maybe their friends' kids, maybe their nieces and nephews. But I think there's never a time too early when the kid expresses interest to teach a child about money. Tell us more about why you're so interested in this. Have there been things that have come up in your life that have brought this to be top of mind for you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Yes. Well, so I kind of went on this journey of working on my own money mindset and really thinking about my own personal relationship with money. And I realized a lot of money relates back to your youth, back to your childhood. People have asked, "What's your very first memory of money? And so when I started to do my own reflection on that, I realized, "Wow, my own relationship with money has to do with when I was a very, very little kid." And so if I was a little kid when it shaped the future of my relationship with money as an adult, I need get to start early with my own children, so I don't basically screw them up for the future either. And so thinking about that, I was like, "Okay, let's learn more. I know they're young." So my kids are currently two, almost four and almost seven.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
They have play money, they have different things, but how can I start to instill the values and the relationship with money at an early age, so that when they are almost 40 years old going on a money mindset track down memory lane, they don't say, "Oh my goodness. Yeah, my mom and dad really screwed me up in the beginning."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you teach little kids about money? Do you let them see what's going on on your phone, for example, when you pay for things?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So we actually to just play with play money and I know they've seen Venmo, but they don't really understand what the digital money is. And I honestly think for toddlers and for little kids, that's a little much, but we do have play credit cards. And so my daughters are only two and almost four and they have a Mini Mouse grocery set and we play actual cash, like cash register and grocery. So there's a little cash register on it. It has fake money. It has one for a dollar, five for a five little coins and we go through it. I'm like, "I want eggs. The eggs are a dollar. Here's my money." I give it to them and they give it back or they understand that there's an exchange. And I always say, "It's not just money for something, it's also an energy exchange."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So I go on it on two different ways. And I know that could sound a little woo. But I always say, "Money is just an exchange for the value you're giving me. Money is exchanged for a product, money's exchange for a service." We use money as a universal tool to help get different things. And so they have two cash registers. They have a learning resources, one, a mini mouse one, and we literally just play. So my big thing is teaching toddlers and little kids is to do it through play. So have them have their own little wallet with their own fake credit card. And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I don't think you can buy that today. You need to make a choice between these two items, because you only have $5 and this one's $8 and this one's $1. You can get five of these." We play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you do that with the credit card? Do you teach them that they have to pay it in full at the end of the month? How does that work? Do you come back to it on a different day? Do you teach them about interest and what would happen if they had a late payment? How far can you take it, especially for your almost seven year old.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So the seven year old, that's funny, because for a while he was like, "Oh, just charge it," or, "Just put it on that." And I looked at him and I said, "Honey, what do you think happens once you give this magical card?" Especially like Amazon, for example, because everything is one touch. He's like, "Just buy that on Amazon." And I'm like, "Oh, I can just buy it. It magically appears, but then what?" Then how does that work? And so we do. We talk to him about the concept of "It's not just magic. It doesn't just appear. There's a cost for things. And so if you want that, it's going to be this amount. And even though you give this magical thing and it happens, it still has to come from somewhere." And so it's really hard. It's easier when it's physical. I think it's really hard, at least personally, to teach them digital. But we also love using manipulatives and he loves math. So that's helpful is that he loves math.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So anytime he goes to a store, he'll look at different numbers and prices of things and we'll play games like, "What's that plus that?" Or, "If I bought two of those, how much would it be?" And so we play around with that to help also academically.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also play the stock market game, so they can learn to invest with play money. And that actually is all online.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So that's for older kids. So a little side note is I substitute taught sixth grade math for fun. I was actually a math major back in college, but never pursued that route. Recently, someone asked if I would substitute teach sixth grade and I said, "Why not? It'd be fun." And they're like, "Oh, and they have this thing called the stock project." So this is more for 11 year olds and 12 year olds. And I was like, "Oh, what's this?" And I started to research it and play it with them. And I think it's such a fun tool for probably 10 to 12 year olds is the stock market game. They were telling me, I was asking them questions. I was like, "Which stocks are you buying? Why are you buying that? What's interesting about that. Okay. If you decide to sell that," and it's really fun, that's all online. But it's a good resource because they can play with their play money. And when they lose, they understand that, because they can see the charts in front of them.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so I think that's a good tool. Also introducing them to what stocks are. What is investing? What does this mean outside of the way money works just in your house, how money can be invested and why companies need money and how that all works?

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about how you can get your kids interested in savings and in automated savings and things like that. Talk about that and your unique approach to that.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
My kids still right now aren't really intrinsically motivated by money. They don't still really understand. Like my son, for example, his birthday's coming up. He's like, "I want this Pokemon thing." And so he has a little piggy bank. We go old school here. And he saved his tooth fairy money. He saved his birthday gift money. And then also I said, "You know what, instead of just leaving it here in your piggy bank, mommy's going to take that and we're going to open up a bank account for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your advice to parents whose kids come home from school or whatever activities they have and, especially as we're hopefully emerging from the pandemic, parents are finally taking those trips that they put off for so long. You asked me this question now I'm putting it right back at you. And they hear about, for example, to use your example, they hear about their friend going to Hawaii. What do you do to your kid that comes home and asks mom, "Can we go on this trip that my friend is going on? We should do that too." And it's not that they're necessarily materialistic. They don't even necessarily know. But how do you manage that?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You're putting me on the spot now on my own question. The way I look at it is today, my son actually said, "I want to go to Hawaii to go rock climbing." And I looked at him and I said, "Rock climbing? What do you mean? We never have been rock climbing in Hawaii." He's like, "Remember that time we climbed on rocks?" I was like, "You mean in Joshua Tree?" I was like, "So you don't actually want to go to Hawaii. You just want the experience of rock climbing? Well, let's look at other places that we can drive to that's close that you can do that." I know a lot of kids are going on trips, especially like Disneyland or things like that. "Why does he get to go? Why don't I get to go?" And I always say kind of like what you say is "Our family makes different choices and we choose for our family and what's best for our family. And so this time we think it's fun since you guys have never been to," I think, well, we're going to a summer camp.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
"Since you guys have never been water skiing and things like that, we decided instead of doing something you've done before, we're going to choose something different. And it'll be a fun experience with the family." I always like to get at the root of what they really want. So maybe they didn't actually want that physical item or maybe they actually didn't want the trip to Hawaii. Maybe they really just wanted family time together. Sometimes we'll come back from a trip. And I'll ask. We went for spring break somewhere and I was like, "What was the best part of the trip?" And he looked at me and said, "Mommy and daddy were here with me for a week." I was like, "Yeah." So we could have been anywhere. We could have literally been home.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so it's what do they really want? And same with even when they're young, when they're toddlers. All they really want is to know that they're loved, that they are accepted for who they are. They just want to feel that comfort. And so materialistic money, all that aside, there's a root at what they want. So if they want an item, because they want to feel included, that's a different emotion. And so now you can address the inclusion part. It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse, because their girlfriend had. It's because they wanted it, because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way you frame that. Tell us quickly about Mommy's on a Call. Because I love this, this is my new obsession, this podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Well, what happened was, is I had a podcast originally called Power Mom Minute and I wanted to interview all the successful moms in business, because I was very curious how they did it behind the scenes. How do you run a company and yet be a mom, because that was my aspiration to do. So I started this podcast and then got pregnant with a third kid, put it on hold, COVID hit. And in the middle of COVID, I needed an outlet and I was still curious, "What's going on in the world of moms?" I was on a phone call and my son was shooting a Spider-Man dart at me. I had a newborn that I was breastfeeding and I literally screamed out loud, "Mommy's on a call. Everyone, be quiet." I was like, "Huh." And the person on the Zoom was like, "That's your podcast name." And I was like, "That's perfect."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So it's a play on two things. Mommy's on a call, like "Go away." We're just going to figure out what's the behind the scenes of moms in business, career. And also mommy's on a call with different aspects of themselves. So I'm really big into multidimensional wellness. So that's not just health and or that's not just physical, emotional, mental. It's also financial. It's also career, which is occupational, environmental. And so mommy's on a call with different parts of the herself and her identity. So talking to you, mommy's on a call with finances and how can we better our financial future and our children's financial future. Or mommy's on a call with her health. And so I might interview someone on intermittent fasting or hormone health, because I'm personally curious. I want to see how you experts do it all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I loved being on your show. I hope everyone checks out Mommy's on a Call. Where else can people find out more about you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You can go to mommysonacall.com. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. It's all under Stephanie Uchima, that's U-C-H-I-M-A and follow me along there. I talk about all things motherhood and wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The advice at the end of the interview about vacations is so on point to what is going on these days with travel. It's not only getting ridiculously expensive, it is also so difficult, it may honestly just not be worth it. So drill down with your kids when they're saying, "We want to go away." And by the way, this goes for your partner or your friends or whoever you will be traveling with and figure out if there's a way to get the same experience or a similar experience or a good enough experience, whether it's rock climbing, or just spending time together without the hefty price tag and not to be overlooked, the hassle factor. One thing that is hassle-free is getting the show notes and full transcripts to this podcast. Both are available right on my website, which is my name. So it's just bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L .com. My newsletter is also available to subscribe to right on my website. Links to all of that in the show notes attached to the podcast, but also again on my website.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for investing the time to listen to this podcast. One thing I am asking in return and it's super easy and it's also free is to take just two more minutes to review my book, Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon. And, yes, the link to review this book on Amazon will be in the show notes, but you can also just find it by going to Amazon, finding the book and scrolling down, and finding where to review it. I am trying to get to 100 reviews and let me tell you, it's not easy. So if you do put a review on that page for me, it is noticed and it is appreciated. Your one review matters a lot to help me get to that goal. So thank you truly. I really appreciate it, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
And please of course share it with me on social media. If you do review the book or just if you the podcast, please help share it. Help me increase my listeners, grow the community. DM on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter, @bobbirebell. And also check out my new TikTok channel. Is that what it's called? Is it a channel? I'm not sure, but I'm posting a lot of videos of me doing local news hits, which is super fun, because I'm giving advice about battling inflation and saving money and so on. And you guys seem to like them, so I love sharing them and I would love to hear from you there. And, of course, make sure you are subscribed not just to this podcast, but to Stephanie's Mommy's on a Call podcast. It's a great one. And big thanks to Stephanie Uchima for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Media all-star Kim Rittberg gets us ready to exit our jobs the right way, and previews her new podcast: Mom’s Exit Interview.

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Follow Kim Rittberg!

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Follow Bobbi!

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• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life By Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Kim Rittberg:
Figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups. Quick ask, before we get into today's topic. I need your help big time. My book Launching Financial Grownups is out and I need your help to get this information to more grownups who can use the advice from my amazing experts in the book. As you know, I wrote Launching Financial Grownups because I was struggling and the information in this book has been everything to me. If you have not already, please pick up a copy. Please get one for a friend or a relative. And also this is so important, please take just a couple of minutes to leave a review on Amazon. We will have a link for that in the show notes. And if you have a group that you think would benefit from having me come to speak to them in person or virtually, get in touch. It's super easy. On my website, just hit the button on the top right that says Work with Bobbi and we can get in touch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now to this episode's topic. Are you curious about the Great Resignation? Are you reading about some scary stuff in the job market like rescinded job offers or people that regret quitting? Maybe you are already in the thick of it, but how do we make sure it doesn't turn into the great regret, whatever we're doing. We have you covered with the most amazing guest Kim Rittberg. Kim Rittberg has had the most phenomenal career in the media business with stints everywhere, from Netflix to Fox and PopSugar. She even launched Us Weekly Television.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then she had that aha moment. You probably have had it too if you're listening to this, and realized she wanted more control. And if we're being honest, more upside potential by stepping out on her own.

Bobbi Rebell:
But of course it's never that simple. We grownups know it never is. I've shared my own three year exit strategy from when I left my job as a business news anchor at Thompson Reuters. But what if you don't want to wait three years or you just can't, and what if you don't know where you want to go, just that it's not where you are right now? Kim and I talk about all of that and then get very specific in our interview with what you need to know before you make your exit, including, of course, the financial things we need to be putting in place. And my favorite, how do you know where to invest in your business as you are building it? Where do you put your resources? It's often limited. Where do you outsource? And how do you even find the right people to help you? It's a lot. So listen carefully to Kim. She gets it and she has incredible advice. Here is Kim Rittberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim Rittberg, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much for calling me a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are such a grownup. We've been gabbing a lot while we've been getting set up because you have a new podcast that has just debuting. It is called Mom's Exit Interview. And I asked you to come on to talk about exit strategies when we want to make big changes in our life. But first tell us about Mom's Exit Interview.

Kim Rittberg:
Yeah, so Mom's Exit Interview is pretty much a resource for moms to thrive when they've ditched the 9:00 to 5:00. Because people don't realize you think that there's stay at home mom, and then 90 hour work weeks on the corporate ladder. There's so much in between. And this podcast is an amazing resource. So every single episode, there's a mom, a real mom with an inspirational story where she's carving her own path and an expert with tips to guide you. So it's really meant to be that inspiration and action paired together.

Kim Rittberg:
And the reason I came up with it was sort of my baby. I had worked in media for about 10 years in TV. I launched the video unit for Us Weekly, like complete dream job. Like I made it. I was like, I made it. I'm such a big deal. It was awesome. I ran an 18 person team. I had my first baby, my baby, actual baby, and Us Weekly, my other baby. But what happened was when I being pregnant with my second, we were required, and I was in the hospital room having my second baby looking through resumes of all the people quitting, looking around at all the executives who were getting fired. I still had my job, but I thought, "Whew, I have no control." And so that really made me think I got to rethink my career. I need to take back control. If this is what success means, this is not the version of success I want.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because, so your podcast is about the mom experience, but the truth is that, and that is often sort of the tipping point for making a change is when you have a change in terms of your family dynamics, whatever that may be, this applies to anyone. Right now, we're going through what many people are referring to as the Great Resignation because so many of us are now rethinking where we want to be, what's going on around us. I mean, you weren't necessarily being forced to make a change, but you had this aha moment. Tell us about what you think about the broader picture of what's going on these days in society, because that had to have inspired this new podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Absolutely. So I, funny enough, right before the pandemic is when I decided to work for myself. When I tell people about this idea, dads, millennials, all people are like, "What a great idea. Why is it just for moms?" I'm like the idea is not just for moms. It's really for people who want to take control. And I think you're seeing that entrepreneurial, grab the reigns mentality, strike more people. But I do think that parents were feeling it more during the pandemic because all of the things that make a parent feel stretched thin before really rose to the surface in a very visceral way. Never before have parents had to homeschool and work at the same time. It's just it was a banana situation, but those little pieces had been happening for a long, long time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Assuming that we have a choice because sometimes people have to exit what they're doing without a choice, but if we have a choice, what things should people do beforehand to be most ready to have an exit?

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. Because on the show, I've conducted tens of hours of interviews with real moms. And we have surveys of hundreds of moms that filled out this survey for the podcast about what they're looking for. And people quit with a plan, without a plan, but I do think there are some general guardrails in place. So in my experience, I left Us Weekly, I knew I wanted to work for myself. I actually didn't have the courage or confidence to do it for another two years.

Kim Rittberg:
So a lot of times I think people have those sort of mental blocks of, can I do it? Is this really the right move? And then there's the tangible things. Do you have enough money? Do you have insurance or does your partner have insurance?

Kim Rittberg:
So some of the things to prepare are A, if you're going to exit, what are you entering? Do you want to be an entrepreneur and grow a huge company? Do you want to be a part-time worker? Do you want to be a consultant? But figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go and it doesn't have to be career A. It doesn't have to be job B, but you should have your priorities really clear because otherwise you're going to find yourself going to the right, going to the left, not really knowing which direction to really lock in on. So get clear on what you want. Your priorities are the top thing.

Kim Rittberg:
Secondly, figure out your financial situation. It is different for everyone. Some people have a lot of savings. Perhaps they have a partner with insurance and childcare. That makes it obviously a clearer path to take an exit. So figure that out. You obviously need to cover housing, food, childcare, but think about which of those things are temporary and which are permanent.

Kim Rittberg:
One of the other things I think is super helpful that I've learned from the podcast, I was talking to Gretchen Rubin, the Happiness Guru, who is amazing. She's amazing. I'm like, I love you. I also love you, Bobbi. We were talking about chapters and how life can be in chapters. So another helpful framework is you're slamming a door. You didn't lock the door with a bolt and never go back. You do always have the opportunity to reenter whatever it is you want to. You don't have to go back, but you can go right, you can go left, you can go forward. So I think the framework of knowing that an exit could be an entrance to something else and you get to decide what that is. A lot of people think of it's that old, famous video of that Jet Blue person, this flight attendant who jumped out the window and quit, and storming out of your job and lighting it on fire. It doesn't have to be that. There are a lot of ways to exit and enter something that's really satisfying.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you balance the amount of planning you do with the actual doing? Because I have had friends that say, "I'm going to make a move," and then it doesn't happen. Or you also, sometimes people, as you just alluded to, take the leap and it's so dramatic and I'm just going to walk in and quit. Maybe they haven't thought it out well. So how do you kind of know what the balance is? And I say that, and I will talk about this on your podcast, I really took three years before I exited my corporate job. I did a lot of planning, but it was very specific with a timeline and everything. How do you balance that? Because you can spend forever planning.

Kim Rittberg:
You can definitely spend forever planning. I 100% agree with you. I spent two years knowing I wanted to work for myself, but not really understanding the financials of that. And finally, one day I said, "I'm going to do it. I'm going to network. I'm just going to see what happens." And I've had two and a half years of making good money doing some of the best work of my life, getting awards. You have to be clear in what you want. I think that clarity has to come.

Kim Rittberg:
Some of the tips that I have learned through the podcast is generally some of the ways that you can figure out that next step, if you have the time, obviously it's very hard to find the time, start doing that next thing as a side hustle. See if you like it, see if the money makes sense. See if there's clients out there, are people wanting what you're selling? So that's one way is to dip your toe in as a side hustle. The other thing is to make sure you have that financial cushion to make sure that you're not just quitting your job and then you feel unemployed. You don't want to feel unemployed. You want to feel empowered.

Kim Rittberg:
And the actual timeline, some people plan a business for years before they launch and other people spend six months, they make their plan. So getting the resources, like tapping into people. Getting your mentors, getting your coaches, doing that business plan, talking it out, and getting on the same page with your spouse or partner if you have one. That's another big thing is if you're going to make a big move, your whole house has to be aligned to that move, or it's going to be very hard for you to handle that. As you know, financial stress is the top stress for partners. So if you are going to make a move, your whole house has to be okay with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And it is important to understand the difference between procrastination and planning, and understanding the balance of that. Once you make this leap and you do exit, Kim, one of the things that I worry about with people because I've been approached, fortunately, I don't think I've been scammed yet, but there's a lot of people... And it's not just scammed. There's a lot of people that can actually legitimately help you. That can really help you clarify, especially if you're a little bit lost, they can clarify with you what you want to be doing, because it is complicated. There are things that might be part of your business that are marketing and things that are revenue producing. And you have to balance that because some things can be so much fun, but they will never produce income. And if you want to have income for your family, you have to really have an understanding of that. How do you figure out who to bring in to help you and what kind of investments to make? Especially if maybe it's early and you don't have the cash flow to just pay for it out of your business, or if you need the cash flow to be supporting your family.

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. And I think there are several different points of view on this. Some people are in the camp of delegate everything, and delegate everything even before you're ready to. So when I was running a big company, I was like, "I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to delegate." Now that I run my own company, I do delegate, but I wait till I feel like I really need it and before I'm at that breaking point, then I hire help for that.

Kim Rittberg:
But in terms of bringing on coaches and all of that, there are a lot of people out there who would like to make money off of you. That's across the world. You go into a store, everyone's trying to sell you something, but figure out who you need to help you get to the next level. For some people, it's a business coach. You actually need to sit down and have your business plan. So on our podcast, I have this entrepreneur media business development consultant, and he gives you tips on how to find clients, how to price your business, how to make a business plan. If you don't know how to do those things, that's the right type of person to bring on. For other people, it's a graphic designer or it's a branding consultant because I think that when you're ready to take that next step, you need to have a brand identity and you need to really like have a good brand presence. Your socials, your site, all that stuff, but you have to be able to separate it.

Kim Rittberg:
And I think there are also a lot of people on social media, the idea that you have to be on social all the time, promoting yourself, and then you end up spending all your time there. You have to really think in your mind, balance your time between what is marketing and what is branding, and what is necessary, and where am I making my money?

Kim Rittberg:
So I had a huge year, my very first year actually working for myself. I had a huge year. I was barely on social media. My inbound contacts, all of my work was inbound. All of my clients were inbound. There were people I had met or contacts of contacts, and I did it through networking. So I think it's very important because a lot of people sell products or services that are related to marketing yourself. And I think social media marketing is super important, but you have to remember, at the end of the day, you got your checking and your savings account. How much money are you making? Are you bringing in money? Are these people who are helping you, are they going to help you bring in money? So I think you need to do that. I personally am a big fan of like word of mouth, figuring out are they legit, checking online sites, Better Business Bureau, all the things like that. I mean, a lot of coaches and people I brought on have been word of mouth. They have been recommendations from other business owners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim, you are such a gem. I want to remind everyone that beyond just rewinding this, I do provide transcripts because you're going to want to literally underline and circle everything that Kim has said. This is a tremendous resource. And we're so excited for your new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you, and I know it's going to be everywhere the podcast. So the podcast is everywhere that you listen, make sure to follow and subscribe. I guess we say we have to say follow now, not to subscribe, but where can people find Kim Rittberg?

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much. So kimrittberg.com, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G, is all things me and Mom's Exit Interview is there. And as a part of my business, I do media training and video content strategy. So I'm laughing. I'm like, "Don't hire coaches, except for me." I'm just kidding. But all of my information is that KimRittberg.com and this was so fun. And I really, my goal for the podcast is to be a resource for people to create a more fulfilling life. And so if I'm doing, that's awesome. And thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. I love how Kim gets real at the end of the interview, especially understanding that we have to focus not just on doing what we love, but understanding what will actually bring in revenue. It is something I'm trying to focus on more these days as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you go to my website. It's just my name, BobbiRebell.com, to get the show notes, with links to learn more about Kim's business and her new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. While you are there, make sure to subscribe to my newsletter. There's a link in the show notes and on my website for that. We send the newsletter out every couple of weeks with articles and helpful information that can help all of us be financial grownups and it is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I'm now on TikTok where I'm still figuring it out. Please help me. Give me ideas, give me suggestions, or any feedback in the comments on TikTok. So far, everyone seems to like clips of me on local news sharing advice on saving money and paying down debt and other grownup money skills. You can also find me super easy under my name, just Bobbi Rebell. Same goes for Twitter. And on Instagram, I am @BobbiRebel1. That's Bobbi Rebell with the number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I also want to be helpful to all of you in your business ventures. I would love to come speak at your company or perhaps at a client event. I have virtual and in person programs available on topics, including of course, Launching Financial Grownups. I talk a lot about intergenerational wealth and of course, how to maximize work life benefits. Links to more info on that in the show notes as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Go listen and subscribe to Kim Rittberg's new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview, and big thanks to Kim for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

• Learn how common the Career Blahs

• Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

• Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

• Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

---

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - WhitneyJohnson.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Concerns of economic turmoil are rising, and while we can’t prevent a storm, grownups can take specific steps to get ready and take stock of how well prepared they would be if the time comes to batten down the hatches. 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, Live your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Jamie Bosse:
We listen to the media, we hear what's going on. People talk about the S&P, the DOW. CNBC's talking about all sorts of things, and we tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with that. But we need to think about how this correction and how the market is impacting our lives, not necessarily that the S&P's down this much or up this much. So creating a benchmark that makes more sense is what is your goals, your objectives, your financial plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups. With me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. Are you watching the news and bracing for the worst in this ... and I want to stress, potential, economic hurricane? Well, probably not a bad idea to at least be thinking about it. But our guests today reminds us that just because we should be prepared for an economic storm, doesn't mean we will be directly impacted by that storm. I like that optimistic take. The wise woman I am referring to is Jamie Bosse. In addition to being the author of several books, including Money Boss Mom, Jamie is a certified financial planner. She also has that magical it factor when it comes to helping both calm us down and motivate us to do what needs to be done when it comes to being financial grownups. Among the things Jamie and I talk about, specific ways to build up cash as a cushion, AKA an emergency fund. So you aren't caught in an economic hurricane of your own.

Bobbi Rebell:
In this interview, you're also going to get her take on money shaming and how we can control things like our emotions. And what is most impactful for us to get to our financial goals, emphasis on our goals. Not somebody else's, our goals. And finally, the best things you could do if the stock market continues to stay under pressure. Here is Jamie Bosse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jamie Bosse, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you. Nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to have you here. We have so much in common and that's kind of how we connected. I have my book launching, Financial Grownups. You have your book, which is Money Boss Mom, helping young parents be the boss of their financial future. So I think they're perfect complimentary books because you focus more on the younger side, although you do touch on older kids a little bit. And then I focus on the older kids. So it was perfect for us to connect. And I just thought you were so amazing, I had to have you on the podcast. And I'm glad we finally got you.

Jamie Bosse:
Well, thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about your latest book, Money Boss Mom, in a few minutes. And by the way, you have a couple kids books, as well. But given everything going on in the world, in the summer of 2022, as we're recording this. I did ask you to give us some very grown up investing advice on how to weather what some people ... and I guess the some people I'm speaking about most prominently is Jamie Diamond recently made some comments about an economic hurricane coming. And now we've had a number of other high profile people sort of saying their own version of it. And it has a lot of people worried. But not to worry because we have you. You came with three tips, three money tips to help us all weather this economic storm, which we hope maybe won't come, but let's just say it does. So, thank you for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first tip you have is to have, maintain or build an emergency fund. That's tip number one. So tell us more about that. Because you have some specific ideas for exactly how to do that.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah, so having an emergency fund is definitely a good thing to have in place during any time. It doesn't have to be an economic hurricane. But when these bad times do happen, it's so much better to have that in place. We saw this a lot in 2020 where a lot of people who owned small businesses just didn't have the customers that they normally did and the income that they normally did. A lot of people lost their jobs. And then when you get in a period where you don't have income or things are different or you have an unexpected expense of some kind, having a cash cushion really helps you get through that. So you're not having to run up credit card debt or borrow money from somewhere or take money from somewhere you shouldn't, like your 401k to make up the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
And a lot of people had those emergency funds depleted somewhat during the pandemic. Of course everyone had different experiences. How do you suggest you kind of get back on track with that? Are there any shortcuts or sort of maybe tough choices that people can make to beef up your emergency fund, just in case?

Jamie Bosse:
I think a couple of tips that are helpful there is to really automate whatever you can. So if you are automatically directing some of your paycheck to a savings account that is specifically for emergency funds, you don't have to manually think about it to do that. And a lot of times, once you get used to that, you don't miss the money. Like it's just building on your behalf and you're not tempted to touch it.

Jamie Bosse:
So I think having an account that is separate than your normal bank accounts makes a ton of sense. Because the money's more out of sight, out of mind. Because I know even me, when I see I have a bucket of cash kind of built up, I'm like, "Oh, well we could buy this or we could do this." But if you have an earmarked specifically for emergencies and you're not seeing it every day, it has a better chance of being protected from your exciting expenses.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's so true. I mean, so many of us think this would never happen to us. So we let our cash get very low. I mean, you brought some relevant stats here, nearly 50% of Americans can't come up with $400 in the case of an emergency. And this is staggering because we all think we're in the minority if we were living paycheck to paycheck. But almost four out of five Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. So we think that we're alone in this, but it's really something that so many of us experience. If not now, at some point in our lives, we have experienced this. So we're not alone. I mean there's a lot of money shame that goes on.

Jamie Bosse:
For sure, yeah. And I think on the job front, 6 million people lose or leave their jobs every month. And the average time to get a new job is about three months or more. And the higher up you are in a company, the longer it takes. And so, there's a lot of periods in people's lives where their income changes drastically. Maybe not by their choosing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. We talk so much about the great resignation, but that doesn't hide the fact that many companies are having layoffs right now. So sometimes you leave a job not by choice and without much warning. So in that case, those are things you can't control.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two money tip that you brought to weather an economic hurricane is to focus on what you can control.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. So right now, you're hearing it in the media, you mentioned it with Jamie Diamond and others saying, a hurricane is coming. But what can you do about it? A lot of the things in the market are out of our control. The market ebbs and flows. That's kind of the one thing it is guaranteed to do, actually. Yet we still want to act, we're wired for action. We want to do something about it. Think about what you can control. So the things you can control are your emotions, like don't get too wrapped up in what's happening, focus on your life and how this impacts you. But also, what are you spending? What are you saving? Are you still saving for the long term? Focusing on those things that matter for your life and your plan and the things that you can control.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing I love about your book, Money Boss Mom is you have so many quotes that are from people we hear about a lot, but not always the quotes that we are used to hearing. One quote that I haven't heard in a while from Warren Buffet is, "Be greedy when others are fearful. And be fearful when others are greedy." That says a lot in very few words, right?

Jamie Bosse:
It really does. It's such a great quote. And it reminds us that oftentimes what our gut reaction is to do, is the exact opposite of what we should do when it comes to investing. So, when the market feels yucky like it does right now, things are scary. We just want to pull away. We don't want to invest anymore money, we want to take money out. But what we're doing when we do that is recognizing losses and missing out on big opportunities.

Jamie Bosse:
So technically the market is on sale. Everything is cheaper than it normally is, stock prices are low. So now is the time to buy more and put more into the market because you have more long term growth potential.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And also, be aware that the entire market may go down for a systemic reason because of these big picture issues. But that doesn't mean every company is being impacted. We might hear that, for example, here we are recording this in June of 2022, just to timestamp this. We're hearing a lot of retailers like Target have too much inventory. So that's something worrisome, but that doesn't mean that other companies aren't going to have growth. So you need to think about where is consumer cash, for example, going to be flowing going forward? Who's going to be on the up and up? So paying attention to individual companies in this case, it may be through a sector fund instead of an overall index fund. Could be an interesting thing to consider.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that you can control that you talk about within this tip number two, about what you can control is spending your money. I mean, we are all consumers and we have made very different choices during the pandemic than we did before. Now many of us are sort of getting back to more normalized lifestyles, but that can be tricky.

Jamie Bosse:
Right, yeah. I think you want to zone your spending in on what your priorities are, what your values are for your family. And try to make sure that your spending matches that. So if there's a bunch of things that you're spending money on that you don't care about or you don't use. Now's the time to kind of reevaluate, look at those things and reprioritize, if necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it does make sense to check in, I would say, every three to four months and see what's going on. Because we have been making so many different changes. And I know I certainly had an urge to splurge this Spring and sort of upgrade my wardrobe because I hadn't done it in a while. And now I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe I'm going to take a break."

Bobbi Rebell:
Number three money tip is what are your benchmarks? And you have a big emphasis on the word, your. Tell us more about that.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. So when we think about markets like this, we listen to the media, we hear what's going on. People talk about the S&P, the DOW, CNBC's talking about all sorts of things. And we tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with that. But we need to think about how this correction and how the market is impacting our lives, not necessarily that the S&P's down this much or up this much. So creating a benchmark that makes more sense is what is your goals, your objectives, your financial plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It's so true because we're talking about this economic hurricane, but there's a common saying, it's an economy of one. You might not lose your job. You might not have any economic hardship. Your investments may be just fine based on your goals and you may have extra cash to invest, as you say, as things are on sale. So we really need to focus on ourselves, not always the big picture. Well being aware of the big picture, but it's not always about the big picture. Sometimes it is about us.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. If your financial plan is still on track and you're able to do the things you want to do, let the market kind of do its thing and make sure you're still focused on what your goals are. If you're younger and saving for retirement, you're actually benefiting from the time we're in now, because the money going into your 401k, the money you're investing right now is actually going in at lower prices. And so it has a lot more growth potential.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Time is always on our side. So thank you so much. Before I let you go, though, I do want to give people a little sense of your book, your latest book, I should say, Money Boss Mom. One thing that really hit home is how personal this is. You come out right away talking about everything from your parents' bankruptcy, to the challenges of being in middle school. And other people have more stuff than you or more luxury things and wanting what other kids have. It's very real book.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you. Yeah. I tie in a lot of my personal experience just growing up. And then also in terms of what I've seen clients go through and their kids go through. And it's a good compilation of all those things to help young parents kind of understand and manage and improve their financial situations going forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one of the things that I really liked about this is you break down different things based on the children's age that they should be doing, whether it's working, giving to charity, things like that. Different specific ideas. So I think that's really useful, as well.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. A lot of people in this age group, we want the next generation to succeed with money. We want them to have a better life than we did. So, we can start those lessons now as young as age three with our children. So I wanted to provide some helpful tips there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's a very readable, very accessible and understandable book. I truly enjoyed it. I obviously have a special interest in this space. So thank you for that. Tell us where people can be in touch with you and learn more about you and pick up Money Boss Mom.

Jamie Bosse:
Well, the books are available on Amazon. So there's the Money Boss Mom book and there's also the Milton, The Money Savvy Pup Series. I work for Aspire Wealth Partners for my financial planning. And you can check out my author work at MoneyBossMom.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite part of talking to Jamie was that she balanced being prepared for anything with also reminding us that we are absolutely not doomed and that we may be okay. In fact, more than okay. And for some of us, there may be opportunities on the horizon to improve our economic situation. Remember it's an economy of one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what stood out to you in our interview? I'd love to hear from you guys, DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell. And please follow my new TikTok channel where I share a lot of clips of my TV interviews, talking about things like inflation fighting ideas and ways to reduce your debt. We are also working to bring everyone the most relevant and readable news stories for financial grownups. We send out a newsletter a couple times a month. You can get on that list by going to my website, which is just my name, BobbiRebell.com, where you can also get show notes with links to our guests and anything relevant to the episodes, along with a full transcript. All of those things are free for all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love doing this podcast for everyone for free, along with the newsletter. But I could really use your help in return. I am trying to get to 100 reviews for my book, Launching Financial Grownups. It is super easy to leave a review on Amazon. We will leave a link to that in the show notes, as well. It makes such a difference. And thank you again to all of you who have already left a review on Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Money Boss Mom, Jamie Bosse, pick up her book, as well. Thank you to Jamie for helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse. Where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting money tips for financial grownups.

WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work

Money Tips

1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.

2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.

3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.

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• Twitter - @jilleduffy

• Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/

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Follow Bobbi!

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• Twitter- @bobbirebell

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?

Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.

Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.

Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.

Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?

Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.

Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.

Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?

Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.

Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.

Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?

Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.

Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?

Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"

Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."

Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?

Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

There’s been mayhem in the markets. Here’s how to feel better about it.

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Follow Bobbi!

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• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Grownups. I have some important things I want to say about the financial markets and I hope you will take them to heart. 

But first I just want to thank so many of you who have picked up my new book Launching Financial Grownups- it is such a great graduation gift for parents of young adults and also makes a great fathers day gift. I’m trying to get to 100 reviews on Amazon - I’m now in the mid-40’s and so I am asking once again if you can leave a review on Amazon. I really need your support and I truly appreciate it. 

 Now let’s get to this week’s episode. And just to time stamp this- I am recording this Memorial Day weekend of 2022. 

The last week was a bit of relief-  but the last couple of months things have been going down enough, that people are legit worried. It’s not just stocks that have been taking a big hit. Crypto has taken a beating. And All this while life is getting more expensive: Gas prices are soaring - mortgage rates climbing along with the interest rates we pay on all kids of debt- as are prices of seemingly all the things we pretty much have to buy to get through the day. And that doesn’t count artificially inflated prices like on baby formula which we are not going to cover in this episode but I just want to note- is so wrong.

For almost of of us- the pain is personal. I log on to my brokerage account, the one that has money for retirement which gets closer each day- and the number is- staggeringly depressing. It so much lower than it was a few months ago, and I don’t know about you but it makes me sad - and given that I am closer to retirement than to my career beginnings, honestly- a little scared. 

And I’m thinking about our 22 year old who just graduated college into all this- he  has been faithfully saving and investing money in diversified funds for a few years and who has been so proud and excited watching it grow- and I’m purposefully not bringing it up because I don’t want him to look and be upset- or worse - do something about it.

And that’s what I want to focus on- should you DO something about this. Because it’s hard to just watch. We want to take action. It feels helpless to just watch. 

We are human. We have emotion. And even though we know intellectually that the only days that count when it comes to whether you win or lose at investing is the price on the day you buy and the day you sell. It still stinks. We still feel a rush of excitement when our account gets bigger. We feel smarter. We are proud of our decisions as if we control the market in some way which is ridiculous. And we still feel that pang of failure when the number gets smaller and we just want to look away from the screen- and we are embarrassed because maybe we invested too much or we chose the wrong investment or we weren’t diversified enough or whatever and we should have done something different.

There’s also some smugness going on. People who were kicking themselves this winter for missing the big crypto boom are now feeling a lot better- they dodged a bullet. And had they invested in say January and sold in May it would have been a brutal loss. All true.

But the game is not over. In fact part of the magic is that unless we are forced to sell- and I hope no one listening to this is in that position- we get to decide when the game is over.

And so here’s are some things that I hope will make everyone feel better- especially for grownups who understood the risks and held steady as they watched their accounts shrink- reminding themselves that this is the part where the risk feels real. And the return is not guaranteed- but is historically consistent.

First - A short term view: Things may be turning around: All three major indices scored big gains in the past week, each rising higher than 6%. Both the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite broke a seven-week losing streak. For the Dow it had been 8 weeks of losses.  

As bad as the month of May felt, heading into the Memorial Day weekend the Dow and S&P 500 were both about flat in May and the Nasdaq was only down a few percentage points.

And while the market has priced in Fed rate hikes of half a percent, there is some buzz that if they raise rates in smaller increments, that could spark more upside momentum.

One thing to watch: what are hedge funds doing? They have been unloading holdings- so if they start to buy in the coming week, it could be a possible positive catalyst for the market.

And now- a longer term view: The S&P 500's average annual returns over the past decade 14.7%. That’s pretty incredible but it reflects some extremely strong years. I like it better than the even longer term perspective of 30 years which is 10.7 percent. But either one is going to serve investors well.

As for Crypto-  I have no clue where that is going and personally don’t own any as of this recording. But what I do know is that it is becoming clear that not all Crypto’s will perform the same and that investors should do very  careful and intense research when choosing which one to put their resources into- bitcoin, etherium and so on are very different from some of the less main stream crypto’s so please my grownup friends, tread carefully and make sure you are aware of the risk levels if you venture into this new world.

Finally- no matter where you are on your investing journey , I hope you shut down that scree and take a look around at your life beyond the numbers and not let them define your life. We are all much more than our balance sheets. 

I hope this has brought you some peace of mind. 

If you enjoy this podcast at all, it would really help me out if you would take a few minutes and write a review on Apple podcasts. I don’t ask that often and I probably should because it does really help make new people aware of the podcast and grow the audience so I can keep bringing you this podcast. 

I also love to hear from you directly so please DM me on whatever social media works for you- I’m at Bobbirebell on Twitter and Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and I am newly on Tik Tok at BobbiRebell. 

I also love to share money and investing tips beyond this podcast in my newsletter- it is now only going to be twice a month which I think is the perfect amount to give everyone value. So please if you are not on the grownup list yet- go to my website where you will see the button to sign up so we can include you. 

I wish everyone a wonderful start to summer- and sending good investing vibes to all of you on the path to being financial grownups. 

Kerry Hannon, author of In Control at 50+ shares her tips for all grownups on getting ahead by keeping up no matter what grownup life stage you are in. 

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Follow Kerry!

• Facebook - @KerryHannonAuthor

• Twitter - @kerryhannon

• LinkedIn - @kerryhannon

• Pinterest - @kerryhannon

• YouTube

• Website - https://kerryhannon.com

• Kerry’s book - In Control at 50+: How to Succeed In The New World of Work

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

• Review my book Launching Financial Grownups

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Kerry Hannon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kerry Hannon:
Great to be here. Thanks for the invitation, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on your latest book. It's 14 books you've done. The latest book is In Control at 50+: How to Succeed in the New World of Work. And by the way, you also wrote the book right before this, which is very important, was Great Jobs for Everyone 50+. So this is an emerging category I think that we need to be talking more about. Tell us a little bit about the book, but I also want to hear about the pivot that you made because many people take a pivot into solo careers around the age of 50, sometime in midlife. You just did the opposite and you're now also senior columnist at Yahoo Finance.

Kerry Hannon:
I know. I know it is crazy. I am walking the walk for the older worker, or I should say experienced worker over 50. Bobbi, I was in house for 20 years. I ran my own business for 20 years. And then out of the blue, I got this opportunity at Yahoo Finance earlier this year to come on as a senior columnist. It was just unexpected. I wasn't looking for it, but I was open to new opportunities. And that's what is really magical because it's what I've been telling workers over 50 for years now that they need to be willing to step it up, try new ways of doing things, work with younger bosses, learn new technology. Yep, I got to do all of them in the last couple of months and I'm having a blast. It is absolutely fabulous. But I've done my time in the trenches with Forbes and Money and U.S. News and USA Today. So it's just fun to add this one to my quiver, you know? Yahoo Finance. Woo-hoo!

Bobbi Rebell:
It's great. I'm a huge fan of Yahoo and Yahoo Finance in particular. I have many friends there. It's very interesting because that came so well with this new book, because you are effectively living what you are teaching people to do. And I want to go over some of the tips that you have in the book. And a lot of them, they almost sound obvious but they're not at all obvious. They're things that I never would think to do. And they're so easy and actionable. So for example, and I wonder if you did these things because... Well, you weren't proactively looking. They kind of found you.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But if you were proactively looking. One tip you had was to read LinkedIn profiles of people that have the jobs you want. I love that. Tell us more about that and how that plays out and how people would do that. What to search for?

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, I mean, you're so right, Bobbi. I mean, that is an easy thing we can all do. If you're sort of in that stage where you're looking for something new, you have an idea of the kind of work you want to do, or the company you want to work with, the most important thing is that you have the right skills, right? That you've upskilled, that you've sharpened your skills, added new things. So go to the LinkedIn profiles of people who have jobs that interest you and say, "Huh, what experience do they have? What skills do they have? Do I have those? How can I put those? How do I get that?" Because online virtual education has exploded since the pandemic. You don't have to spend a fortune to pick up new skills. You don't need a master's degree. Just dip in and you can add some new things quite easily these days.

Kerry Hannon:
And so I think that LinkedIn is... I'm a big fan of LinkedIn, if you're a white collar worker particularly. So we got to be clear there. But you can find out who you know at companies where you're interested in working. It's really a great source of research on those kinds of things. But the really simple thing is you look at what those people who have jobs that you're interested, what they have in their summary on LinkedIn, you go, "Oh, that's how they describe what they do. I think maybe I'll go change mine." And you just shift it up, you know? So it's really kind of fun because with LinkedIn, it's so simple to go in and just edit your profile anytime you want to.

Bobbi Rebell:
That said, you also emphasize that you might actually be asked for an old school resume, but you have to really focus on keywords. And this is a time when it's kind of okay to plagiarize in a way to kind of lift exact words. So tell us more about that and why people have to bother, because people might think, "Well, can't they just look at my LinkedIn resume?" I mean, that's what you thought.

Kerry Hannon:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it might be true, but it's not always true.

Kerry Hannon:
No. There's bureaucratic process that goes into this hiring stuff. So with HR, you've got to play the game. And the game today is these artificial intelligence platforms that filter out different things because it's one way employers can weed down the number of applications they get. They know they're missing out on good people, but this is the way they do it. So you have to be really game the system the best that you can. And the simplest way, to start at least, is to actually replicate the exact word that was in that job posting. So you may call yourself a project manager, but they're looking for a project director. I don't know. I'm just making that up. But change it to director and go with whatever that word is that they use. And so you have your basic resume already and to go, and you jump into the document and you just create a new one and throw in these new terms that apply to this... Customize it. Bespoke it so to speak.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also advise people to kind of take a different perspective on social media, which many people feel is something that's fun, maybe it's optional and something social, but it also can factor into whether or not you get that job.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to be very strategic. Someone's going to Google you. You Googled the company, you found out about the job. You hopefully did your research on the person who's going to interview you and found out some little tidbit about them that's helpful. They're doing the same for you. They're going to go see everything that's out there about you. So if you can, go clean some stuff up, get rid of kooky things on Facebook, or on Twitter you can delete tweets that maybe are political. Just try to stay in your lane.

Kerry Hannon:
And also one thing I found super helpful about social media is it's a great way when you're searching for a job to support other people. It's just not all about you. Look at stories you think are interesting that other people have written or research. Highlight that, share it with your people and tag that person. And they feel like, "Oh wow. They noticed that I did this." It builds a network for you, and a very easy way to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I completely agree. And another thing that is not obvious to most people but very easy to do and obvious once we're going to say it, is to pay attention to the photo and other ways that you present yourself visually.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, especially as you push 60 or whatever, people go, "Oh, I don't really want to show that photo with me with gray hair or whatever." Get over it. They're going to figure out how old you are. And put a really great energetic picture of yourself up there. And I mean, energetic. Don't be a boring old headshot. Yeah, it can be a headshot, but try to show some personality. I do think it's important. They're going to find a picture of you somewhere, but also hopefully they're going to meet you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. They are going to meet you. But at the same time, just because you're not going to hide who you are, doesn't mean you have to include everything you've ever done. We don't want the four page resume. I mean, you have some advice about sort of being deliberate in how you present your resume.

Kerry Hannon:
Oh, without question. And you know what's funny, Bobbi, I always say, "It's not your obituary. It's an advertisement." So get over it. This is your song and dance time. So let's keep it down to the last 10 years of working, maybe 15, and just a little box saying additional stuff, but highlight the stuff that applies to that job that you're interviewing for. That's, again, why each job has a special resume going that direction, but you need to really customize it for that employer. One great way is just shrink it down, tell stories. We call these CAR stories, challenge, action, result. People love to read narratives. I did this. I brought in a project three months ahead of time. Whatever it is, try to quantify. People love numbers. Hiring managers love numbers. They love little stories. They do not understand titles usually or boring job descriptions.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people may reach their midlife stage, even frankly it can happen even at the quarter-life stage, let's be honest, and they sort of don't know where they want to go in terms of their life structure and their career because it's all blending together. You have something called the You Bet Your Life exercise where you can kind of figure out where you have the most potential. Tell us about You Bet Your Life.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah. I got to say I have to give a hat tip to Steve Dalton at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business for that one. Steve is awesome. He shared that with me and I'm owning it too. It's just a quick hit, like what is your best skill? If you have one or two or 10 seconds of maximum, just write it down, what do you think you're very best at in the whole world and maybe you're better than most anybody you know? And that kind of gives you a clue to start figuring out what it is you're really good at and what you like to do. I think these are kind of trying to put the breadcrumbs together. There's a lot of different steps, but one of the first things you need to do is, what are you really good at? And what do you really like to do? And truthfully, most of us are a little oblivious to what we're really good at because we take it for granted. We do actually know what we like to do. So how do you put those two together?

Bobbi Rebell:
And what someone will pay you to do.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we had this pandemic and it impacted all of us in different ways, but many ways were sort of universal. Many people have been frustrated with where they were in their jobs and made big changes. But for people, especially midlife and older, you really stress the idea that they should not necessarily be part of the great resignation. Talk a little bit about that.

Kerry Hannon:
Well, I actually call it the great reimagination. A lot of people may have stepped away from the workplace during the pandemic for a lot of reasons. I mean, caregiving is a big one and it's not just for kids. I mean, for me, I had my 91-year old mom living with me and she had dementia. My sister and I traded her back and forth, but it was really hard. I was hanging by a shoestring. If I had been working full time for an employer, I would've probably had to step away. So there were many reasons people stepped away. But what it did is it provided an opportunity to rethink work. It's not like they never want to work again or they never want to work even for that particular company where they were working, but they need flexibility. They need to find ways that they can balance.

Kerry Hannon:
We all, in the pandemic, did that in our MRI. We're like, "What are our priorities? What matters to us? Is it our family? Is it time that we spend doing hobbies or volunteering, giving back?" There's lots of things that go into our life. And we started to... Some of us, at the later stages of some of my readers, is you realize you have more yesterdays than tomorrows. And so this is where you, "Let's put pedal to the metal and make life matter."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you know whether it's time to retire, resign, whatever, or to kickstart a new phase of your career or a different kind of career? How can you sort of figure out the balance there?

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, Bobbi, that's a real tough one, because retiring, I hate that word altogether because that's like stepping away and you're... Ugh. At this stage of life, everyone should be eager to step forward to do new things. And so I think this is really a gut check, but the most important piece of it is something that you know all about is financial fitness. And if you're financially secure... And I write my book about how that is a big part of my fitness program is financial fitness, and if you are financially secure, you can make these kinds of decisions. You can choose to step off the rabbit... My brother calls it the pony at the state fair going around in circles. You can stop doing that, but you can move to do something else that might not pay as much as that primary career did, but it's something that you're using your skills that matters to you.

Kerry Hannon:
I do think debt is the biggest dream killer and the biggest stumbling block to starting your own business. People at this age, I mean, entrepreneurship is hot. I mean, it lit up for the over 50 set after the pandemic. It had already started. But self-employment and entrepreneurship is just booming for this category because people say, "Guess what? I want to be my own boss. I want to be in control. And this is what I've always wanted to do." But in order to do that, they had to be financially fit, because otherwise it's a recipe for disaster.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I just want to add the other two parts of that. You really have a three part fitness plan, financially fit, physically fit, and spiritually fit. People can read that in the book. Because we're going to wrap up, I want to give people a teaser so they can read it. It's on page 47, everyone.

Kerry Hannon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. In control at 50+. Kerry Hannon, where can people find out more about you and the book?

Kerry Hannon:
Oh, thanks Bobbi. My website is the best. It's kerryhannon.com. K-E-R-R-Y-H-A-N-N-O-N.com. I'm on Twitter at @kerryhannon and on LinkedIn, so check in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Kerry Hannon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite thing about Kerry's tips is that they're always so easy to do once we are made aware of them, just like copying those keywords so the computer picks up your resume, and making sure your picture is on point. So what were your top tips from Kerry? What did you like the best? I'd love to know. Please DM me on instagram, @bobbirebell1, or on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and be sure to go to my website, @bobbirebell.com for the transcript and show notes from this and every episode and to sign up for the newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
My latest book Launching Financial Grownups is out. If you do choose to buy it, which I would love if you did, buy it for yourself, buy it for your friend, great graduation present, for the parents. If you do, please leave a review on Amazon. I truly appreciate it. I love doing this and your support doing things as simple as leaving a review on Amazon, it's free. That is what makes this all worth it for me. Big thanks to Kerry Hannon for making us all financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, @bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 one on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Learn the best advice, hacks and lessons to be your own self-made boss from top small business owners with authors Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg

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Follow Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg!

• Lauren’s Twitter - @WeinbergLauren

• Jackie’s Twitter - @jackiereses

• Jackie’s LinkedIn

• Lauren’s LinkedIn

• Website - https://www.selfmadeboss.com/

• Jackie and Lauren’s book - Self-Made Boss

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. This episode is sponsored by UNest. Start investing in your most important asset, your kids, with UNest. Soon you will also be able to give the gift of crypto. Join the UNest legacy wait list and get early access entry into giveaways and much more. Visit unest.co for more information.

Lauren Weinberg:
If you're in the food business, he talks about using a smaller plate when you're taking pictures of food, what time of day, how to capture the best light. He really goes into a lot of specific details, because if you think about social channels and all these places where people are getting information or where they're viewing content from business owners, the better you can put your brand out there with photography and how you portray things, the more likely you are to connect and breakthrough.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard. But, together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money is in the details. If you want to succeed in business, my friends, wise words from Lauren Weinberg. She is the co-author of a new book, Self-Made Boss, that had me both smiling and taking notes as I read it. The other author is a longtime friend of mine, Jackie Reses. We went to Penn together, where we were also Tri Deltas.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jackie and Lauren met while working at Yahoo, and then worked together at Square, where they spent a lot of time with small business owners and entrepreneurs. Now they have come together with their first book, hopefully one of many, Self-Made Boss: Advice, Hacks, and Lessons from Small Business Owners.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we cover how businesses can leverage technology to connect more with customers, a great story about a pet-grooming business that you will definitely want to hear, upping the ante on the employee experience, creating an employee culture ... Super important these days when there's a lot of competition for workers, so you want to keep the good ones ... and how to set your company up to pass on to the next generation, although you also need to figure out if you even should.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here are Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg. Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg, you are both financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Jackie Reses:
Thank you for having us.

Lauren Weinberg:
Yes, thanks for having us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congrats on the book Self-Made Boss: Advice, Hacks, and Lessons from Small Business Owners. By the way, this is extra special because Jackie is a dear friend of mine going back to our days at University of Pennsylvania, where we were roommates and even, dare I say, Tri Delta sorority sisters. Oh my gosh. All right, before we get into the advice that you have for our listeners, you both met working at big companies. Tell us more about how you met and how this book was born.

Jackie Reses:
Sure. So we had the pleasure of meeting at Yahoo. We were both executives who ran the company. We then moved from Yahoo to Square. Lauren, I'll speak for you right now and just keep going for a second, and then you can introduce yourself.

Jackie Reses:
So Lauren is the chief marketing officer of Square. So wow, wow, wow. Incredible. And I ran banking and lending at Square and also the people team. And so, we had the benefit of working at a company that focuses on empowering small businesses and helping them start, run, and grow.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the idea was born out of listening to customers through the millions of Square sellers across the country, particularly in a pandemic, when we saw how much trauma was happening in the small business market. We understood some insights around how small businesses build community and learn and we thought this book would be an incredibly powerful guide to help them build their business.

Lauren Weinberg:
Yeah. I don't have too much to add to that other than, yes, Jackie and I met at Yahoo. We also were both New Yorkers who moved to California. So we shared that journey together of just moving our families across the country. We spent time in California walking around, because there was really nothing else you could do during the pandemic. We thought there's just this void of information.

Lauren Weinberg:
We also had the insight that more people than ever were starting their own businesses. That was true in 2020, where we saw more new business formations, and then again in 2021, where you have the great resignation where people aren't just leaving their jobs to sit home all day. They're leaving their jobs to go and start businesses.

Lauren Weinberg:
We thought, wow, anytime that there's these downturns in the economy or things are changing is a time where we tend to see a lot of innovation and new starts. And so, we thought the timing for putting a book like this out there with this kind of advice would be a good moment for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it was definitely a good moment, and you have a very optimistic tone, Lauren. I love that. Self-Made Boss also is a book ... Even though it is definitely a business book, it is very practical, it is very specific, but it's driven by personality and it is a book that is joyous. There's a lot of fun stories in here. So I want to ask each of you, what was the funniest story in the book where you just couldn't help but smile?

Jackie Reses:
Yeah, I'll start. One of the things we really enjoyed about the book is that it's written through the eyes of small business owners, and each chapter is a business chapter like HR, finance, hiring, operations, and logistics, legal matters. But each chapter is told through the eyes of four or five small businesses in each chapter and also a handful of experts in each chapter.

Jackie Reses:
There's one in particular that I really enjoyed, and the entrepreneurs' names are Keith and Patricia Miller from Pampered Pooch Playground and Bubbly Paws in Minneapolis. You listen to Keith and Patricia, and it was Keith who I spent the most time with, talk about how they build their team at a grooming shop ... Grooming shops, because they now have a few, in Minneapolis. He had incredible insight in how he focuses on fun and teamwork and creating an environment that feels safe for the dogs, safe for dog customers, and also safe for his employees.

Jackie Reses:
And so, I loved his ideas. One really simple one in building trust was he took a video of the dog getting groomed while it was getting groomed. He saw so many advantages in this idea. From a dog owner's point of view, they could see how their dog behaved during grooming, which could be a trying time for some dogs. The dog obviously felt safe because they were going to be streamed to their owner. For his employees, they felt safe so that they could also show their work. If anything went wrong, they could show what happened. It was a great experience. They could show that as well.

Jackie Reses:
And so, it's kind of like one of those things that you would never think of, but it's a really interesting business hack that he created in the context of his grooming store.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that it's using technology to make it more human and more ... I don't know what you call it with the animal, but you know what I mean. It's connecting people. Lauren, do you have a fun story?

Lauren Weinberg:
I would say that Germanee G. is somebody that really stands out to me, because she epitomizes this idea of following your passion and your dreams. So she had this great job, corporate job, at Gap and she left that job to go become a stylist. She now splits her time between Atlanta and LA. I think just hearing about her saving up her money and just getting ready to take that leap of faith is just really cool, because to me it really, I think, just epitomizes that entrepreneurial spirit that we try to capture in the book and just how she really went for it to go pursue her dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also so relatable because so many people do have these dreams. One thing in the book that I liked is that nothing was too small. You get into some very tiny decisions, but they are very important decisions. So can you share what the most overlooked thing, or one of the overlooked things, that many business owners forget to pay attention to that's really important, it moves the needle?

Lauren Weinberg:
I'll talk about two things to start with. I think one is just the entire look and feel of your business. I think thinking about your business from the notion that every touchpoint that somebody has with your store, what does your window look like? What does it look like when you walk through the door? If you have an online business, your website, your logo, your presence, every interaction that somebody has with your brand is a chance for them to make an impression and form a relationship with you. And so, I would just say all of those details really matter.

Lauren Weinberg:
And so, thinking about them from the very beginning of your business is really important. Then along those lines, we talked to Aundre Larrow in our marketing chapter and he is a photographer. He gave all these like very specific tips on how to take great pictures.

Lauren Weinberg:
So if you're in the food business, he talks about using a smaller plate when you're taking pictures of food, what time of day, how to capture the best light. He really goes into a lot of specific details, because I think if you think about social channels and all these places where people are getting information or where they're viewing content from business owners, the better you can put your brand out there with photography and how you portray things, the more likely you are to connect and breakthrough.

Lauren Weinberg:
So I thought the tips that he provided in there were really very specific, very detailed, and extremely actionable. Like don't take pictures outside in the middle of the day when it's sunny, but do take pictures inside when there's indirect sunlight. Just really practical tips that anyone can use on their own.

Jackie Reses:
I thought some of the financial advice was really helpful also, and just tiny decisions you might make at the very beginning of starting a company. For example, don't combine your business account and your personal account in terms of business accounts. A lot of small business owners, when they start to make it easy on themselves, they conflate the two. But there are a lot of downstream effects that could impact their business just by that one simple decision.

Jackie Reses:
And so, now there are lots of places, particularly online, where you can open up an online business account for free, and then get a lot of the technical tools that help support lots of other analytical decisions you can have.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the reason why you don't want to combine the accounts is if you ever want to get credit, it's hard to take apart your business account and your personal account. When you have to deal with taxes, it makes it more complicated. You're going to spend a headache's worth of time dealing with taxes. You might need to position your company to raise money at some point in the future. It just looks sloppy. Then you clearly have to do a separate accounting. Then you might also need trades and have to do trade invoicing and things like that.

Jackie Reses:
And so, you're going to have to start separating because they're going to want to get credit. They're going to want to see your different elements of your business operating independently.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the number one hack each of you learned from the self-made bosses that you interviewed, ideally something that you guys ... Even though you have a big, strong history in small business which people can read about in the book, what did you learn?

Lauren Weinberg:
I think Jackie talked about Keith Miller and Bubbly Paws. I think that they were really ahead of their time when it came to just thinking about culture and employee benefits for small business owners. I think a lot of business owners are contending with this fact now, like how do we retain employees?

Lauren Weinberg:
Keith was bringing cupcakes for employees on their birthdays. He was doing engagement surveys. He was offering employees mats to stand on so that their feet were more comfortable throughout the day. I think in a lot of ways, those are really simple things, but not always things that small businesses have front and center when they're thinking about their employee experience.

Lauren Weinberg:
So that was definitely one that I thought, wow, he had the hiring and culture part of the business down in a way that I think a lot of businesses are really trying to get their head around in the moment.

Jackie Reses:
Yeah. Pete Stein, the oyster farmer that you had talked about, he hacked software. So he wanted to optimize his operations and he used bus software in order to build his own optimized routes. And so, it doesn't have to be something super complicated. You can go out and try to find a proxy for what you're trying to do.

Jackie Reses:
My comment before was go find a free online business savings and checking account. In this case, he optimized his utilization. And so, if you're really creative about some of these systems, you can do it in a cheaper way if you need to and have it done more quickly. I think that kind of creativity is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Last question. We talk a lot on this podcast about generational wealth. What is your advice to families who want to pass a small business to the next generation? Because it is complicated.

Lauren Weinberg:
It is complicated. I think a couple of things. One is to make sure that you have family members that want to take on your business. We heard a lot from business owners that just didn't have anybody to pass their business on to. So I think that's something that getting your family members involved in, making sure that the interest is there.

Lauren Weinberg:
Then when it does come time to transition, I would say give up some control. I think one of the things we learned from a lot of the people that we interviewed in the book that come from multi-generational businesses is that when the next generation could come in and they were given more free reign to think about how they would change the business operation, that that really helps the business evolve.

Lauren Weinberg:
So one example is with Acme Smoked Fish. That was the company that I talked about with my roommate from college. It's fourth generation. Her brother came in and said, "We really need to upgrade how we think about manufacturing. We have a smoked fish company." At the time, it felt like a huge risk to them, and it ended up becoming the thing that really helped propel their business into the next phase of growth.

Lauren Weinberg:
I think the same thing is true with Pesso's Ice Cream, where they were really starting to think about using data. They used to have 132 flavors and they realized they don't need 132 flavors, that they could have 30 flavors and that those 30 flavors are the most popular, that really cuts down on the amount of time that they spend then producing ice cream flavors that are less popular.

Lauren Weinberg:
So I would say make sure that you, a, have the people there that have the interest. Then give them the room to do things in a little bit of a different way, which does require giving up some control, which is hard to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jackie, by the way, oh, your parents had a small business that you did not take over.

Jackie Reses:
Oh me? Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Jackie Reses:
No, I definitely was not taking over my family's small business. I think I'm the only person in my family to not work for myself. I did come from a small business family, and I appreciated some of the upsides and downsides of working with people that you can't fire and they are part of your family.

Jackie Reses:
And so, the message that I would add to this ... And I think about Jonathan Sciabica from Sciabica Family California Olive Oil and Gourmet Foods. Literally his grandfather and great-grandfather began the business with information they had pulled coming from Italy. The insight from him was to think about rules for how you're going to work together. Think about who decides what and how do you operate.

Jackie Reses:
I think that was really good advice he gave us so that you could try to minimize the ambiguity in how you make decisions and how you operate together. And so, people had their roles. Sometimes in family business, that can be incredibly challenging because you have, I'll call it, sloppy decisions. But where you don't make sloppy decisions and you're very specific about who does what, who decides, it can help alleviate some of that family tension.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice. Thank you both for joining us. Where can people learn more about you guys and Self-Made Boss?

Jackie Reses:
Well, they absolutely should go to our website, selfmadeboss.com. They can go onto Amazon or any independent book seller, if they prefer that, and look up Self-Made Boss. Hopefully they will enjoy the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you both.

Lauren Weinberg:
Thank you.

Jackie Reses:
Thank you so much for having us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great stories we couldn't get to. So even if you are not a small business owner, read this book, just for the entertainment value and the amazing stories these self-made bosses share with Jackie and Lauren.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what resonated with you in the interview? DM me on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, or on Twitter, @bobbirebell. Please share this podcast on social media, or just tell a friend, so we can grow the Financial Grownup community.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want to thank those you who have reviewed my new book Launching Financial Grownups wherever, maybe Amazon, maybe Goodreads, and have shared it on social media. Please let me know when you do through all the social channels, and I would love to thank some of you. I'll surprise you with some Grownup Gear merch, which, by the way, you can check out at grownupgear.com to celebrate all of the adulting moments in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, if you are looking for someone to speak to your company or your school or your parent group, please get in touch. Just go to my website, super easy, bobbirebell.com, and click on the Work with Me tab, or you can also get a Grownup Gear discount by signing up for the newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Jackie Reses and Lauren Weinberg, authors of Self-Made Boss. Pick up a copy. Thanks to both of them for helping us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Home ownership is getting more expensive. But it is not impossible. I shared how our 24-year old did it- and how my husband and I helped give her just the right amount of strategic help- with Joe Saul-Sehy on Stacking Benjamins. 

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