The best-selling author reveals what happened when her dad opened her mail and saw her credit card debt, and the surprising result when she and her husband cut their budget by 90 percent. Plus a preview of her new book: Your Turn: How to be an Adult. 

Julie’s Money Lesson:

Okay, the recliner. I'm starting to make a lot of money. I'm making enough that my husband is like, "How would you feel about me being a full-time artist?" And I was like, “Yes!”. I was supporting a family of four. My husband became a full-time artist and we started spending money. We're buying the nicer table. We're buying the nicer artwork. We're buying the nicer recliner. We realized that our set point of what we could just spend money on, in terms of discretionary spending, had just increased as our salary increased. We're looking around like we're making far more money than we ever had, but we're not saving a darn thing. What is up? And we realized that set point was just out of control. We were just dropping $1,000 without thinking about it. I read up, I talked to people and I learned this rule of if you want to save, you want to change your habits, you don't just try to start saving 5% or 10% if you've been saving nothing, you need to start saving for yourself first. You need to pay yourself first and decide what your savings goals are and set that to the side and then pay the rest of your bills. And that meant that our discretionary spending, we were going to cut by 95% or by 90%. If we were spending $1,000 on a recliner, when we had to buy the second recliner, it was going to be $100. And I was bummed because the second recliner was for me and my husband had the fancy recliner. We went to the cheaper furniture store and sat in recliners. And we had these down, sad faces, like “poor us” right? And I sound so privileged talking about this. I realize some people are like, "$100 is a lot of money." I'm just saying for me, it was a big cut. And then we found this recliner for $100 that is so comfortable. It is like the recliner of choice. You come to our house, everyone gravitates to it. It looks comfortable and it is comfortable. It's the kind of thing when you push the buttons and it starts to leans back, you're like, "Ah". It feels like a spa. And it's the cheapest thing in the whole downstairs of our house. Cut spending on something by 90% and see if you noticed.

Bobbi’s Takeaways:

#1 - Julie jokes about how retirement is over romanticized and I couldn't agree more. Work is not just a path to retirement. We put in about a third of our 24 hour day, and for many of us, a lot more than those eight hours. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you are laser focused on retirement, consider refocusing that energy on enjoying your day to day more. If there's anything we've learned during the pandemic, it's that we should not assume things need to stay the same. Hit pause, give yourself some grownup tough love and fix it.

#2 - Let's get better about asking our friends and colleagues of different backgrounds and races about their experiences with money. Even though Julie clearly and candidly talks about how being a person of color impacted her money decisions in the book, as a white person I wasn't sure about asking Julie about it. I'm really glad I did. I'm not sure why I was so hesitant. And I hope we can all make time to both listen and share with each other as well. And in case you're wondering, as a white person in this country, it never even occurred to me that I needed to use a credit card to prove I belonged in a store. We need to be talking about this.

Get your copy of YOUR TURN: How to Be an Adult today!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

It is officially spring. And that means graduation season is on. We here at The Financial Grownup Podcast have created some new super fun gifts just for that in our grownupgear.com merch store. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and the seriously, most cozy and comfortable sweaters all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. Grownup Gear also makes great gifts for Mother's Day, Father's Day, engagements, bachelor/bachelorette, parties birthdays, and of course, just for fun to treat yourself. Use code graduation for a 15% discount. And thank you in advance for your orders. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and we truly appreciate your support.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

They handed me a check for the full amount, $3,900 plus change, and I felt so shamed and so just embarrassed. Here I am highly educated, a fancy degree from a fancy college and I'd managed to get so far in the hole. And I just cried. I just cried. Tears just rolled down my face.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hello, my grownup friends. It is April. I am so happy it's April. I don't know about you, but I just, I needed the better weather. Speaking to you from my home in New York City, where we've had a very brutal winter. I was fortunate. I got to go to Florida for a little bit, but we've been home for a while and this better weather could not come at a better time.

Bobbi Rebell:

And also, as some of you get to see, it's very much a work in progress, you see it on my Instagram, but I do get to go out and play golf, which is a really great way to spend time. Anyway, let's talk about this week's Financial Grownup. The adjective that I am going to use to describe her, delightful, Julie Lythcott-Haims is out with a new book, Your Turn: How to be an Adult. It is the much anticipated follow-up to her previous book, How to Raise an Adult, and not to be forgotten in between those, Real American: A Memoir, and a very personal book, which continues to grow in relevance.

Bobbi Rebell:

Julie is a former Stanford Dean. She left that position to pursue her passion, the career she'd always dreamed about, writing. You know what? It's working out okay. Julie's new book, Your Turn: How to be an Adult, is about more than just being a Financial Grownup, though she does have a chapter which is pretty much on the topic. Chapter eight, check it out. The book is about being a full on adult, but for the purposes of this podcast, she was a good sport and gets candid about her money blunders and victories. Here is Julie Lythcott-Haims. Julie Lythcott-Haims, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Bobbi, no one's ever said that to me before. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

You are very much a Financial Grownup. You're the author of Your Turn: How to be an Adult. Welcome.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I think I'm going to learn something.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm going to ask you to share a money story from the book, which has to do with credit card debt, but there's a really interesting angle that has to do with how you relate to your family, which is so appropriate when we talk about Financial Grownups.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. Thanks for pointing to something that's deeply personal. No, of course. I shared it in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's in the book, Julie.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I know. I'm trying to be vulnerable with my readers so that they can feel more safe and seen. Okay, picture me. I now 53, but in the story, I was maybe 22. I had amassed a lot of credit card debt in college. I was at Stanford University. The student union was basically lined with the desks of fakes who were there to offer me a credit card application. And I filled out maybe two of them. I had two credit cards. I would use my credit cards at the local shopping center. I would use them for groceries. I would use them for dinners and lunches out and coffee. I was just, I was spending money without having really learned the habits of how you keep track of your expenses and the whole interest part with credit cards. Long and short, I had accumulated about $3,900 in debt.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

This would be around 1990, 1991. Maybe double that, maybe like $6,000, $7,000 in today's dollars. I had no way to pay it off. My first job I'd earned $20,000 a year. It's hard to pay down a debt of $3,000 when you're only earning $20,000 gross. And I was headed off to law school and was living with my parents over the summer before law school started. And so my mail, including my bills, was being forwarded to my parents' address. Well, unbeknownst to me, after I had opened the latest credit card bill showing just how much I owed, my parents had read it as well.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

One night they just solemnly came toward me and said, "You're about to go start grad school and you're getting married. And we want you to start life with Dan", my boyfriend and soon to be husband, "with a financial clean slate. So here's a check." They handed me a check for the full amount, $3,900 plus change. And I felt so shamed. And so just embarrassed. Here I am highly educated, a fancy degree from a fancy college, and I'd managed to get so far in the hole and I just cried. I just cried. Tears just rolled down my face. They weren't judgmental. They weren't scolding me. They were offering me this gift.

Bobbi Rebell:

There's also another lesson for our listeners about relationships and how you communicate with your family.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. That really pushes the button, right? I think I was so ashamed that I had let them down by being this child of theirs who had been so irresponsible. And I think the lesson is had I only reached out sooner. I just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper by paying the minimum on my credit cards. If I had reached out to my parents six months earlier, or a year before, or two years before, I would probably never have gotten into such bad debt to start with.

Bobbi Rebell:

We're going to talk for your everyday money lesson about the fact that you guys like to splurge. But then there was sort of an aha moment. Tell us about the recliner.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Okay, the recliner. I'm starting to make a lot of money. I'm making enough that my husband, who's a designer, a product designer, user experience designer, is like, "How would you feel about me being a full-time artist?" And I was like, yes. Okay, that's how capable I was of supporting a family of four. My husband became a full-time artist and we started spending money. We're buying the nicer table. We're buying the nicer artwork. We're buying the nicer recliner.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

We realized that our set point of what we could just spend money on, in terms of discretionary spending, had just increased as our salary increased. We're looking around like we're making far more money than we ever had, but we're not saving a darn thing. What is up? And we realized that set point was just out of control. We were just dropping $1,000 without thinking about it. I read up, I talked to people and I learned this rule of if you want to save, you want to change your habits, you don't just try to start saving 5% or 10% if you've been saving nothing, you need to start saving for yourself first.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

You need to pay yourself first and decide what your savings goals are and set that to the side and then pay the rest of your bills. And that meant that our discretionary spending, we were going to cut by 95% or by 90%. If we were spending $1,000 on a recliner, when we had to buy the second recliner, it was going to be $100. And I was bummed because the second recliner was for me and my husband had the fancy recliner. We went to the cheaper furniture store and sat in recliners. And we had these down, sad faces, like poor us, we can only, right? And I sound so privileged talking about this. I realize some people are like,"$100 is a lot of money."

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I'm just saying for me, it was a big cut. And then we found this recliner for $100 that is so comfortable. It is like the recliner of choice. You come to our house, everyone gravitates to it. It looks comfortable and it is comfortable. It's the kind of thing when you push the buttons and it starts to leans back, you're like, "Ah". It feels like a spa. And it's the cheapest thing in the whole downstairs of our house.

Bobbi Rebell:

But it's good. It's working for you and you saved 90%.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:

Nobody misses not spending the money.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's so great. And yeah, the tip is basically cuts something by 90% and see if you noticed.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Right. That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah. That's a good one.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

100%. Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's talk more about this book. I devoured it. I have to say it's a robust book. This is a book that took a lot of research. I really encourage people, not only to read it, but to settle in with it because it really is worth your time. I picked out a few of the things that I'd like you to elaborate on within the book. And the first one kind of tag team to what we just talked about because there's a lot of talk about cutting your expenses so that you can retire early. That's one of the motivations for taking drastic action when it comes to spending. But you talk about the fact that retiring early is really over romanticized.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

The retiring early rhetoric tends to be, "My job sucks. I can't wait to retire. I'm just going to slog away working in this dungeon so that I can at 55 or 57 or 60, whatever, I can kick back and relax and travel." If that's the choice you're making, more power to you. But in the book, I'm trying to expand people's horizons and get folks to think maybe work doesn't have to feel so awful, such that all you want to do is leave work. Maybe you can lead a career life, a job life, a professional life that is intrinsically rewarding. It feels good. You're tapping into your talents, your strengths, your loves, you're growing. You're making enough money to pay your bills.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

And you're like, "Hey, I'm not eager to retire. I enjoy what I'm doing." And then to put a fine point on it, Bobbi, oftentimes when people retire, that is they cease doing that which they have always done, that which has been a huge part of their identity, they begin to wither psychologically. They begin to wither physically. They begin to wither in terms of their personal connections, because they're not making things with their hands, they're not doing as much with their brain and they're not seeing human beings as much. Retirement can often lead to a downward spiral. If one is not sort of healthy, hail and active in one's retirement, it can really be the beginning of the end.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I'm here to say, love the work you do, do the work you love, make sure it pays your bills and do it for as long as you can and build in the travel and the enjoyment and the fishing and all of that along the way, rather than waiting to live that life you imagined only after you've retired from some terrible job.

Bobbi Rebell:

Such a good reminder. Another thing that really stood out in the book that I went, oh, that I don't think about enough, when you talked about the spending, and this ties into your spending on the credit cards when you were younger especially, you talk about the fact that racial stereotypes played into your spending decisions. Tell us more.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Well, what listeners need to know is I'm a black and biracial woman, very light skin. But nevertheless, I think to the world, unambiguously of color. And most people figure out that I'm black. I, as a young person, had learned to ... I had internalized the hate that I had experienced along the way. Microaggressions, outright racism, these things were things I experienced in childhood. By the time I get to college and I'm at an elite college, I'm at Stanford University in Silicon Valley and I have these credit cards. I am using the credit cards when I'm in a store, in a fancy store, at the Stanford Shopping Center or in a nice restaurant as a way to demonstrate, I have credit, I am capable. You do not have to associate me with that stereotypical black person you think can't afford to purchase your goods, your food, because I have this credit card.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

I was really deep in my internalized oppression that I was trying to not be the stereotypical black person. I was trying to be the model Negro, if you will, I'm using terms of stereotype. I have long since grown out of that behavior, but I will say, yeah, the credit card was like an appendage that was proving my ability or my worthiness or my right to be in these white environments. I overspent as a result, I'd be with friends at dinner and say like, you know what? I'll take care of the bill. And I'd plunk down my gold. How did I have a gold American Express card so young? But I did. They knew who they were preying on. It worked, right? I was like, I'll take care of the bill. And it was my way of showing, not just the restaurant, but my friends, I have money, even though I didn't necessarily have the money in the bank to pay that bill.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's a tough situation that society puts people in that mindset.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

We could talk about this a lot more, but this is a short podcast and I want to talk about one final theme. And that is that you really humanize a lot of our experiences with money by bringing stories of other people into the book. I wanted to ask you to share that a little bit.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Yeah. Thank you so much. The book is part memoir, me telling my lived experience, as you've just asked me about, me with some self-help tips, practical advice, but then I've got the stories of these other people in every chapter, a really diverse set of people from all walks of life in order to say to all readers, I'm trying to envision all of you as I write this. And the two stories in the money chapter are Wesley, who grew up working poor, put himself through community college, put himself into position of getting to drive for UPS and has been with UPS now for 35 years and will retire with a full pension from UPS.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

It hearkens back to days of yore, when you'd work for one employer all your life, and they were very loyal to you and you were loyal to them and unions were strong and that's not really the way much of the working world works these days, but there are plenty of industries that still do offer pensions, like the package driving industry, like UPS and police and law enforcement more broadly and schools. People who work for the government tend to have a pension. And this is a way to the middle class. Wesley has provided a life for himself, his wife and his son that is just many steps above what he grew up with financially. I wanted that story in there. I think it's a really important story about the American dream and that in many ways it is alive and well today.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

The other story is Denae, who's a dancer, got an undergraduate degree and a master's in dance. She's a professional dancer in New York City. She's done some amazing gigs, but dancing gigs come and they go. And when they go, she doesn't have income unless she supplements that with other work, which she does. Nevertheless, she had racked up with interest $50.000 in student loan debt, living in the most expensive city in America, New York, and or one of the most expensive, and she set herself a goal to get out of that credit card debt.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

She said, "I'm going to be debt three and three years." And she did it by being extremely frugal about her food, extremely thoughtful and mindful about her choices, about how she went places, what kinds of places she rented. She would even say when she was working a temp job in between dancing gigs, somebody took her food out of the fridge and started eating it. And she put a note on the refrigerators, "Hey, please don't eat my food. I'm paying down my student loans." And if that wasn't crystal clear, because she didn't know who did it, but she just knew I have to send this message.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

She stood up for herself, both to herself and to her friends and coworkers to say, "Hey, don't take my stuff. I'm paying off my student loan." Really brave. She did pay down that loan. Danced through the subway in a rented dress that she got from Rent the Runway with a big sign saying, "I'm debt-free. Hug me." And then she became a financial planner to help other people. When she's not dancing, she's now a certified financial planner person because she saw how many of her own peers, highly educated, didn't know enough about money. Here's to Denae, very much a resource for other people now that she is completely debt free.

Bobbi Rebell:

I am smiling ear to ear hearing that story. And there's so many other wonderful human stories in this book. We know it's going to be available everywhere. I won't have you say that, but where can people find out more about you and any virtual touring that you're going to be doing, my dear?

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thank you, Bobbi. The best way to be in touch with me is through my website, JulieLythcott-Haims.com. I'm sure Bobbi will put the spelling of that in the show notes. From there, you can follow me on social I'm @JLythcott-Haims everywhere. Maybe even Tik Tok, who knows, we'll see. I'm starting a membership club because I like to get real with people. I like to get really vulnerable and share. I know that that's the way we learn and grow and feel less lonely and I'm starting that. That's all online. Go to my website and just from there, you'll be able to follow me what I'm up to and all the virtual tour stuff will be on there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, thank you so much for this. Thank you for the book and thank you for joining us.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

You're amazing. Thanks for having me. And I actually feel more competent about my financial choices and what I've learned from them because you helped me think it through, by walking through these stories with me. Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

They're all your stories. Thank you.

Julie Lythcott-Haims :

Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, my friends, here's my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, Julie jokes about how retirement is over romanticized And I couldn't agree more. Work is not just a path to retirement. We put in about a third of our 24 hour day, and for many of us, a lot more than those eight hours. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you are laser focused on retirement, consider refocusing that energy on enjoying your day to day more. If there's anything we've learned during the pandemic, it's that we should not assume things need to stay the same. Hit pause, give yourself some grownup tough love and fix it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Financial Grownup tip number two, let's get better about asking our friends and colleagues of different backgrounds and races about their experiences with money. Even though Julie clearly and candidly talks about how being a person of color impacted her money decisions in the book, as a white person I wasn't sure about asking Julia about it. I'm really glad I did. I'm not sure why I was so hesitant. And I hope we can all make time to both listen and share with each other as well. And in case you're wondering, as a white person in this country, it never even occurred to me that I needed to use a credit card to prove I belonged in a store. We need to be talking about this.

Bobbi Rebell:

It is Financial Literacy Month and I am giving away a ton of incredible books, including Julie's. You want one? All you have to do is DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and just say, "I'd love a book from a Financial Grownup". The authors that are on this podcast and their publishers are incredibly generous. And I can't wait to send out lots and lots of books. Everyone, pick up Your Turn: How to be an Adult and big thanks to Julie Lythcott-Haims for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:

The Financial Grownup Podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer and Amanda Savan is our talent coordinator and content creators. Yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels. Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life.

Bobbi Rebell:

And this year we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the Grownup list. Go-to BobbiRebell.com to sign up for free, while you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear Shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a Financial Grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoyed the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grownup life.

Jessica Zweig leads the thriving personal branding business: Simply Be. But the author of the new book "Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself” only got to this point in her life because she was able to exit a toxic business relationship that brought her personally and financially to rock bottom. Plus she shares an everyday money tip that will help us reach our goals during the pandemic, no matter what obstacles we are facing. 

Jessica’s Money Story:

My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had 100,000 local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship." And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth. It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch.

Jessica’s Money Lesson:

Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page.

Jessica’s Money Tip:

So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships, and used the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. - This past week the dating app Bumble went public. Its founder,  Whitney Wolfe Herd started Bumble in 2014..  after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder, where she was a co-founder- after a breakup with another co-founder. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and is worth over a billion dollars. 

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

So many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic- in part because it feels like no one is watching. I mean after all. We can and do literally work in our pajamas. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time. Get an accountability partner. Get someone who will be committed to you- and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren’t doing that- break up fast and find another accountability partner. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy, but this more quiet time will come to an end, and the opportunity to get to your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste. 

Get your copy of Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself.

Follow Jessica!

• Twitter - @jessica_zweig

• Instagram - @jessicazweig

• Jessica’s website - www.jessicazweig.com

• Facebook - Jessica Zweig

• LinkedIn - Jessica Zweig

Follow Bobbi!

• Twitter - @bobbirebell

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Merch - grownupgear.com

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: Question for you guys, are we ever going to get back to that whole dress-up for work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJ's and those grungy t-shirts and we need to give ourselves an upgraded but still super comfy wardrobe that makes us smile and ideally makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well.

Bobbi Rebell: I have so many friends that I've wanted to send little pick me ups to to let them know it's all good and that includes you. So that's why I created Grownup Gear a fun line of t-shirts, sweats, pillows, mugs, totes, and more that I guarantee will give you and everyone that you're Zooming with all day long a good giggle. Grownup Gear is about saying the things out loud that we tell ourselves silently like when you wake up and you look in the mirror and you think, "I can't believe I'm a grownup either." Or maybe you just want to be honest that you are still a grownup in progress or you want to send a gift congratulating a friend for paying off their debt. The most comfy sweatshirts, t-shirts, tote bags, mugs, pillows, and more give it to yourself or your favorite grownup or almost grownup friend. Go to grownupgear.com to check it out. For discount codes and sales follow us on Instagram at our new handle at @GrownupGear and DM us with any questions. And thank you because by supporting Grownup Gear you help support this free podcast.

Bobbi Rebell: The debt and the brokeness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would've if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Financial Grownup Podcast. We share money stories here that had big impacts on our guests lives and of course then they share with us the lessons from them. I'm your host Bobbi Rebell, Journalist, Certified Financial Planner and author of the book How To Be a Financial Grownup. If you're new here welcome. I'm so glad you found us.

Bobbi Rebell: So that clip that you heard at the top of the show was from author and personal branding expert Jessica Zweig. Jessica has a new book out called Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. I have to say I love that title. The thing about Jessica is that if you don't know her you would never know all the things that she has had to overcome to well be where she is now that included a toxic business relationship that lasted for seven years. The breakup left her with nothing hitting rock bottom at age 33, even having to ask her parents for money just to pay her phone bill. Just when we think we will be hitting our grownup stride you never know what's going to hit us. There is a lot to learn from this remarkable woman and she does not hold back in this interview. Here is Jessica Zweig.

Bobbi Rebell: Jessica Zweig, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm pumped to be here.

Bobbi Rebell: Well, I am pumped to have you here. Your book Be, I'm holding it up by the way, Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself is about to come out and it's your first book. Congratulations.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much. You know how much goes into it so thank you for saying that.

Bobbi Rebell: I really enjoyed learning so much about you and what you teach people in the book. What's interesting is you come across as having it all together which you do now I'm going to say but it wasn't always the case. You brought with us a money story that is sadly something many of us can relate to but often don't know what to do with, I should say that often don't know what to do about, and that is finding ourselves in toxic relationships personally and in business in work environments. Tell us your money story Jessica.

Jessica Zweig: My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had a hundred thousand local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship."

Jessica Zweig: And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth.

Jessica Zweig: It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch. Bobbi Rebell: When you look back were there red flags that you should have spotted in the relationship, in the business in terms of the skills that you both brought?

Jessica Zweig: From day one. I mean, there were massive red flags. I think I realized three months in just how different we were but we were young and we were so naive and we both really loved this business. This magazine Cheeky was our baby. And so I didn't want to give it up and she didn't want to give it up and at the core there was a magic connection with us. We wouldn't have created what we created if there wasn't that synergistic spark. And we both loved each other to a degree which was what made it so difficult.

Jessica Zweig: But there were red flags and it was honestly one of the most toxic relationships of my life. I mean, we were together for seven years and we were water and vinegar. We were just totally different people. And I'm not saying I was better or she was worse, we were just different. I've come to so much peace and love and honestly forgiveness for myself first in the way that I showed up in that relationship as much as her and how she showed up in the relationship which I think has really been a huge key to me soaring in the last few years because I really did my own work.

Jessica Zweig: I think it's so easy to point fingers at people when they burn us or they hurt us or they come after us. There's that expression when you point one finger at someone, I mean do it, you're pointing three back at yourself. So you really do have to look at yourself in any sort of situation but when it comes to money it's especially loaded and I could still be angry, I could still be bitter, I could still be resentful. I don't feel any of those feelings. And it was the greatest learning lesson of my life. I applied all of those mistakes, all of those failures to simply be and simply be is so successful and it wouldn't have been unless I had that seven year chapter and run of making all of those mistakes.

Jessica Zweig: So, I think that everything happens for a reason and I feel like the debt and the brokenness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would have if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. So, everything happens for a reason and divine order. It's happening for you not to you even though it can really feel the opposite in the moment. I wouldn't be who I am without that business and that failure.

Bobbi Rebell: Can you me a specific example of something that happened that highlighted your differences? It doesn't have to be your biggest fight or something but something especially money related that you just never agreed on.

Jessica Zweig:I think we were both pretty irresponsible with the way we spent the business's money. I really wanted to grow it and scale it and exit. I wanted to be that type of entrepreneur and she wanted it to be a more lifestyle business. If you're going to go into business with anyone whether it's a business partner or someone on your team or your leadership team to really understand those nuances and get everyone on the same page. Because it sets the foundation for the type of business and the rate in which you want to grow and how you want to operate and who you want to do business with so, so much. And we just didn't have the skills. We were so young. We didn't have the tools to talk about money and business at that level. We were green as grass. So, of course it netted out the way that we netted out. And we also were really done when we opened up our credit cards. She was the personal guarantor on the credit cards. It was just mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah. I love that you're talking about the fact that it is so hard to talk about money and it sounds like you guys didn't have a lot of talks about money and how you were going to structure your firm and how you were going to fund it before you started it. What is the lesson for our listeners as we put it all in context?

Jessica Zweig: Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken and I think actually way, way up and make the right decision to partner with the right people in the first place. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page. And yet money makes people funny no matter what and so you really have to recognize that in yourself and in the others and bring as much consciousness and integrity to those kinds of negotiations, conversations, whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell: I could talk to you forever about this but I want to get your everyday money tip because it's something that I am already implementing for 2021 and that is having accountability, having an accountability partner. Talk about that.

Jessica Zweig: Yeah. So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Jessica Zweig: And so, I brought in my husband who is a financial advisor, as well as you are. And his business had kind of slowed down, he couldn't go out and network, we were quarantining. And he's like, "Jess, I'll help you with the PPP." He took one look at my finance team and was like, "Dude, I can do this better." And so I fired my finance team and I hired my husband. And my husband and I have always obviously been partners and accountable to each other because we're married but bringing him into my business...

Jessica Zweig: He's now my CFO, he helps me run the shop, saving money, ensuring that our P and L's are always balanced, making sure we're net profitable. Having someone that I trust, obviously I trust no one more than my own husband but he has really allowed me to fly as the CEO because I know that he's got things covered. And we operate like a legit finance CFO to CEO. We take weekly meetings. He has an agenda. We run through every money in money out, hiring, investments, savings. We don't have any debt in our business. It's a really powerful person, obviously it's my own husband. But if you can have someone to pulse check you, to support you, to believe in you, to honestly be able to see the forest from the trees more than you can in your own project or business or money endeavor that is so key.

Jessica Zweig: And then another thing that I have done that has really allowed me to get out of debt and save money and feel really, really peaceful and abundant and my husband has helped me with this is we've set up an account. I call it my island account and it's a bank account we can only put money in. And if I needed to take money out I'd have to drive all the way across town in the worst hours, whatever. It's my island account. I can only send money to it, it can only grow. And I'm stacking my cheddar as my accountant once told me and my husband helps me ensure that money is being sent to that account every single month and that we're totally able to send that level of money over to that account and that's really grown our savings. My husband and I sleep well at night because of it.

Jessica Zweig: And so those are the key hacks that having my husband and having that account has changed honestly my financial wellbeing more than my finances but more of my financial wellbeing, which I think is key to vibrating at that level of abundance and attracting more.

Bobbi Rebell: That's such great advice. There's also a lot more great advice and I'm picking up your book now even though I know we're on audio and your book, okay I'm going to read the title Be, with a period, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. And I love the yellow cover. Yellow became one of your themes in the book so it transcends so much about you and your sunny personality. Tell us briefly about the book.

Jessica Zweig: So the book is a personal branding book. It's going to walk you through my trademark methodology of how to build your platform, the platform of you. Whether you work for yourself, or you work for someone else, or you want to one day work for yourself, having an understanding of what makes you you is an invaluable asset that you can take with you no matter what your job title is. That's number one. It's going to teach you tactically step-by-step how to do that from messaging, to strategy, to content, to social media, to PR.

Jessica Zweig: However, it is a personal empowerment book in fact disguised as a business book. Because I think at the core most people feel afraid to do that and to put themselves out there. And I say that my book is the permission slip and the reminder that you are worthy to be seen and to shine and to have everything you ever want. And it's my own journey in fact as well and my uncovering that truth for myself. And so, I'm right along with you throughout the whole book and you're going to take away so much tactical knowledge but at the end of the day I hope it inspires people to stop playing small and stop apologizing for their authentic amazingness. And that's what my book Be is about.

Bobbi Rebell: One of the recommendations in the book is to keep your social media and all of your public identifying names, et cetera, very consistent. So let's end with you telling us where people can find you on all of the social media because I know you keep it easy.

Jessica Zweig: I walk the talk as I say I drink my own Kool-Aid. So yes I am at Jessica Zweig on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, jessicazweig.com. You can also go to simplybeagency.com which is my company's website and find me. I'm really, really, really easy to find. I'm out there. So please come and say hi.

Bobbi Rebell: Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me. This was amazing.

Bobbi Rebell: Here we go my friends Financial Grownup tip number one, some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships like Jessica, and like Jessica they use the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. This past week the dating app Bumble went public and its founder Whitney Wolfe-Herd started Bumble in 2014 after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder where she was a co-founder after a breakup with another co-founder. And she's talked about it a lot, it was a toxic relationship for sure. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and worth over a billion dollars. What a great story.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial Grownup tip number two, so many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic in part because it feels like no one's watching. I mean, after all we can and do literally work in our pajamas, certainly the off-camera part. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time, get an accountability partner like Jessica. Get someone who will be committed to you and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren't doing that well break up fast and find another accountability partner who's a better fit. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy but this more quiet time will come to an end and the opportunity to get your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste.

Bobbi Rebell: One way to get motivated, get out of those PJ's. Realistically, I know we aren't getting dressed up but have some fun with your pandemic wardrobe. That's what I know I needed when I came up with a concept for Grownup Gear it is all about celebrating wherever we are in our journey to being grown ups which never really ends let's be honest. Check out the designs on my website, bobbirebell.com. Click on shop or just go directly to grownupgear.com. And please be in touch. DM me what you want more of on this podcast. I love your feedback. I put discount codes for Grownup Gear on my Instagram, which by the way is Bobbi Rebell one. And we did just start a Grownup Gear Instagram. We don't have a lot of followers so please come check it out. That's at @GrownupGear on Instagram.

Bobbi Rebell: So big thanks to Jessica Zweig, author of Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing You Self-Worth and Your Net Worth By Simply Being Yourself. Everyone check out the book and thanks again to Jessica for helping us all be financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Big cities have a lot to offer- but can be expensive. Co-host Grant Sabatier, creator of Millennnial Money and author of the new book “Financial Freedom. A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” recently moved to New York City despite the costs. He shares his three biggest tips to making it work for your financial grownup money goals, and still live life to the fullest.

Here are 3 tips for expensive city living

• How you can plan for the big fixed expenses

• Why you should balance the convenience of prepped vs non-prepped items

• The importance of getting out of the city

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Check out the book trailer here

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

HSA's, aka Health Savings Accounts are getting a lot of buzz - because they can be awesome. Here is the Financial Grownup Guide to 10 things you need to know to find out if HSA’s are right for you. 

Here are the 10 things you must know about them and why you need to find out asap if they are right for you.

1. What are they. Health savings accounts are tax advantaged savings accounts- that means you put in pre-tax money- that can be used to pay for medical related expenses. 

2. Love paying no taxes- how much can I put in? That changes every year. For 2019 you can put in up to $3500- and families can put in up to $7000. If you are over 50 you can do a catch up of an additional $1000. 

3. What kinds of things can I use it for? Generally the things you would get re-imbursed for by insurance once you use up the deductible- so NOT the bi-weekly premiums you are paying but YES to doctor visit you went to or a medication that wasn’t reimbursed because, you have a high deductible that you haven’t met yet.  

4. Am I eligible? You have to have - another acronym here- an HDHP- that is a High Deductible Health Plan. That is defined by the IRS as a deductible of $1350 for an individual and $2700 for a family. You also have to have some hefty out of picket amounts: $6,750 for individuals and $13,500 for families. You also can’t have another medical plan. You can’t be enrolled in Medicare. And you can’t be a dependent on someone else’s tax return. 

5. How do I actually set it up- this can be done through your employer- right along with the health care plan- which is usually a good idea because some companies will also put money into the account for you- and we all love ‘free’ money. According to Mercer the average company contributes almost $700. That money is not included in your gross income.  it can also be set up at some financial institutions. 

6. What does it cost: Many financial institutions do charge fees but they are often waived if you can maintain a minimum balance. I will leave some links in the show notes of great articles that rank financial institutions by things like fee structure from places like Morningstar and the College Investor- which is run by financial grownup Robert Farrington- you guys should make sure to check out his great episode. Also with financial institutions you can put in after tax money - and then deduct it from your income.

7. What if I don’t use it all?  This is my # favorite fact about HSA’s - you get to keep the money. it’s your money. So it rolls over until forever. Even if you later GO on medicare and can’t contribute, you can use it to pay premiums there. So good. BY the way- FSA- flexible spending- it is use it or lose it at the end of the year - big difference here. 

8. What if I leave my job? No worries- HSA’s are portable.

9. Explain the investing thing. The money is invested and the earnings, assuming they are used for eligible medical expenses, remain tax free. 

10. What’s the catch? The big catch is that if you think you are going to have big medical expenses, or you won’t have the cash to actually save and fund the HSA- you might want to consider a lower deduct-able health plan- it’s safer and you won’t get hit so hard with high medical bills. You can still do the flexible spending account.. 

EPISODE LINKS

Here are some resources to find out more about fees associated with HSA’s

https://www.morningstar.com/blog/2018/11/27/hsa-spending-account.html

https://www.morningstar.com/blog/2018/11/12/top-hsa-providers.html

https://thecollegeinvestor.com/22222/best-hsa/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/07/your-money/health-savings-accounts-morningstar.html

https://www.doughroller.net/insurance/health/the-best-hsa-accounts/

Check out The College Investors’ Robert Farrington’s episode

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author Cristina Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week as a lawyer. When she ditched the day job to write full time, Cristina also walked away from the pricey perks.  But the author of The Bankers Wife, quickly found herself with the time to create better benefits for herself and her family. 

 

Cristina Alger is a lifelong New Yorker. A graduate of Harvard College and NYU Law School, she worked as a financial analyst and a corporate attorney before becoming a writer. Her third novel, THE BANKER'S WIFE, will be published on July 3 by Penguin Random House. She lives in New York with her husband and two children.

 

In Cristina’s money story you will learn: 

-How and why she came to work in finance after college even though she had been an English major and says she had no financial skills

-How and why she wrote the Darlings while working 120 hours a week as a corporate lawyer, often on the road

-How she got the book published

-How she had to adjust her budget and spending lifestyle when she left her corporate job to write fulltime

-Specific examples of the changes she made to lower her spending, but make up for it with time

In Cristina’s money lesson you will learn:

-How at her corporate job Cristina had to use money to make up for the lack of time she had

-How as a writer, Cristina now has time to make up for the lack of steady paycheck

-The specific current changes Cristina makes in her every day life to improve the quality of her family time and her overall lifestyle

In Cristina’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Cristina and her husband have disrupted the common advice to hire babysitters and go out in order to really have a date night as parents of young children

-Exactly what they do to protect the time, and to focus on each other, not distractions around their home

-Ideas for how you can create time in your life for special moments - without spending more money than you would like. 

-Other benefits from at-home date nights, including avoiding all the stress and to-do list of setting up the going-out date night!

About  how Cristina researched her book “The Bankers Wife”

-She learned about Geneva as a child visiting her uncle

-As an ex-pat she was fascinated by the glamorous and mysterious world of   swiss banking and offshore banking

-She is fascinated by the Panama Papers and used them for ideas. They were leaked while she was writing the book in the summer of 2016, 

-Another case that inspired her was that of whistelblower Bradley Birkenfeld, who exposed how UBS helped ultra-wealthy Americans commit billions in tax fraud.

-Birkenfeld went to prison for 30 months, but when he got out he got $104 million from the IRS as a whistleblowers fee!

In my take you will learn:

-How to find the time to do what you love, even if you feel like you are too busy

-How to determine if in fact you should not try to find the time- because ultimately it’s not that important to you, or not realistic during this phase of your life. 

-Ways to come to terms with your actual priorities not being what you think they SHOULD be. 

-The difference between side hustles for enjoyment, and side hustles for pay. 

-Ways to approach  and re-think the pressure from friends and family to have a formal ‘date night’ when you really do have other financial needs- or the planning of the date night is creating stress. 

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Cristina Alger and her other books at her website:

CristinaAlger.com where you can also buy her book. 

Follow Cristina!

Facebook: @AuthorCristinaAlger

Instagram: cristina.alger

Twitter: CristinaAlger

Here are some great articles about the Panama Papers: 

International Consortium of Investigative Journalists

https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/

NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/06/us/panama-papers.html

The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/panama-papers

Wired: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Here is more about Bradley Birkenfeld.

https://lucifersbanker.com! 

You can read more about him in his book: https://lucifersbanker.com/books/lucifers-banker/overview/

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Transcription

Cristina Alger:
There was a salad place in basement of my loft apartment, we used to go everyday for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it, and a lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with my, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up, but you know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together, I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, a lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, the glam life of an entrepreneur, you can work from the beach, but you also need to watch out for those 30 dollar a day salads because that expense account has sailed away. Welcome everyone, so glad you are here, we have a great guest today in novelist Cristina Alger, whose latest book the financial thriller, The Bankers Wife, kept me up all weekend, I could not put it down until the very last page and it was a good ending. The book is fiction but also very realistic, taking us into the secretive world of Swiss banking and chock full of villains, if you can figure out who exactly are the villains. You can really tell that in Cristina's background in banking and law as well as growing up in a family that worked in finance, gave her insights into this actually really crazy world that we haven't seen before in a novel, at least not that I'm aware of.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book takes you on quite the adventure. Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings, as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week, when she ditched the day job though to write full time Cristina also walked away from those pricey perks and she had to learn to be quite the financial grown up, you're going to love this story. Here is Cristina Alger. Hey Cristina Alger, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.

Cristina Alger:
Thank you, thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for taking over my weekend, I spent the weekend reading your new book, I got a sneak peak at it, The Bankers Wife. We're going to talk more about it after your money story, but just high level, give us a little sneak peak?

Cristina Alger:
Well the bankers wife is a thriller and it's set sort of in Europe and New York and it's about a woman who is an ex pat, an American ex pat living in Geneva, and her husband is a private banker and he goes missing on a private plane, and she goes in search of him. It's really kind of a fun fast paced thriller that kind of takes you through the world of off shore banking.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we love that, a money thriller, and to get to the point where you are giving us this wonderful novel, and by the way it's your third novel, you had to leave your corporate job and become your own boss and that involved some big money decisions of your own. Nothing quite as dramatic as what goes on in The Bankers Wife, trust me, this book goes there, but lets hear about your life and your money story?

Cristina Alger:
Yeah, when I graduated in college, I was an English major, I had no actual marketable skills and I went to work at Goldman Sachs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let me just correct that, you must have had some skills to get a job at Goldman Sachs, but go on.

Cristina Alger:
Well I had no financial skills and I grew up in a family where both my mom and my father worked in finance, I had never taken economics, I had never taken accounting, my dad passed away when I was a senior in college.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sorry.

Cristina Alger:
And I sort of realized that I had to start paying my own bills and so I decided to take the highest paying job I could get, which was a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs and they were one of the few banks that were hiring people out of undergrad who did not have a finance background, so I took that job and I sort of stuck with that through my 20's. I went to law school and when I came out of ... I became a corporate lawyer because I had spent these two years at Goldman Sachs learning how to be a financial analyst. So I spent about 10 years doing finance in sort of various roles and I wrote The Darlings really as a passion project, I wrote it while I was working as a lawyer and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So let me just ... so it was a side hustle, was it intended to make money or just ... it was just a project?

Cristina Alger:
No, it was just a project, I never thought it would get published ... actually even intended for it to see the light of day. I sent it to a writer friend of mine who asked, so are you still writing, are you still working on sort of creative projects, and so I sent this to her and she sent it to her agent, and her agent called me and said I really like this, do you want to publish it. I thought oh wow, I don't know if I have the time to do that, so I sort of hemmed and hawed about it ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And the economics, I mean I don't know what the advance was but you're in a job that you've said you're in for the money and now I mean it's a first time novel, it might pay well but probably not the same?

Cristina Alger:
No, and it's funny, being a lawyer and being a novelist are complete opposites. I mean being a lawyer is such a consistent steady job, you know you're really paid salary, it's a salary based job, the bonuses are not huge, and it's just a very consistent job. You sort of stay there, you keep your head down, you work hard and you get paid very well and you have great benefits and it's a very conservative kind of risk averse job. Obviously being a writer is the exact opposite, you get paid in kind of these lump sums, you never know when you're going to get paid next, there are no benefits, so ... it's a huge transition.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you make that transition?

Cristina Alger:
So we took the book to auction, it actually did really well at auction and we sold it for a fairly large advance, but it was a big leap for me. It was really stressful, it was hard in the beginning to figure out how to be my own boss and how to kind of manage my budget given that I wasn't getting a consistent salary.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do, what was it like?

Cristina Alger:
I set up a budget that would carry me through the next year and I really stuck to it. In fact, every month I was sort of coming under my budget because I was so scared that I would run out of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something maybe that you would have done in your lawyer life financially and you weren't doing anymore as a novelist, year one?

Cristina Alger:
Okay, yeah. Well the first thing and the most obvious thing that I actually ... and this is the change that I will never go back, I stopped doing take out. I just stopped, I now cook lunch and dinner, I bring my lunch to work if I'm going somewhere. I mean New York is sort of dangerous because there's so many quick lunch options and dinner options around but it's expensive, it adds up. So there was this salad place in the basement of my loft apartment, we used to go every day for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it. A lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore, so I had to get much more organized about doing meal planning and grocery shopping and ... but I also had more time, so I actually really enjoy cooking and that's something that my husband and I do a lot together and my kids and I now do it together. So it's been actually a really positive change, but we save a lot of money as a family by not really eating out very much.

Cristina Alger:
We almost never do take out, so that's one thing. Then another is that I don't take cabs anywhere, I was always in a rush when I was at my law firm and I was always traveling around the city. I literally can't remember the last time I took a cab, I walk everywhere, I take the subway, my kids love the bus, that's a huge cost savings. I also realized that I don't have to dry clean my clothes the way I did when I was a lawyer, when I was a lawyer I was wearing a suit every day and I would honestly throw things in the dry cleaning bin because I was just too lazy to think about it and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And busy, you were working 120 hours a week.

Cristina Alger:
I know. Then you know, I was a lot more conscious about going out with friends at night and the money I was spending on entertainment and that kind of thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson then for our listeners, what's their take away from this?

Cristina Alger:
One of the thing that I realize is when you work these very intense corporate jobs, you're spending money to create time, and that goes away when you cease to have a job that takes over your whole life. So a lot of the things that I was spending money on I realized didn't actually bring me any joy, they were just ... I was spending money to save time. So I was paying for a housekeeper, I was paying for transportation as I said, I was paying for take out, and all these things really what I was buying was time because I was so busy that I couldn't ... I didn't have the time to go grocery shopping and sit out on a Sunday and plan out what I was going to eat for the whole week and when you get back some of that time and you reclaim that time, you can actually save a lot of money because you're not making decisions kind of on the fly based on what's the most convenient thing to do right then.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's kind of along the same theme and it's really about date night with your husband.

Cristina Alger:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because now you're married, when The Darlings came along you were single, and when The Bankers Wife comes along now you are married.

Cristina Alger:
I am, I am, we have started doing date night at home and we cook a really nice elaborate dinner and we light candles, we set the table, and my husband brings me flowers, a date at home and it's really nice. Sometimes we'll watch a show or a movie on the couch and we'll drink wine and sort of do whatever we would do at a restaurant, but at home. We save money because it's just infinitely cheaper to eat at home but we also save on babysitting and sort of the mental gymnastics of getting a babysitter, so ... we just find it so much easier to be like okay, Thursday night we're doing it. It makes a big difference when you set the table and you use real silver wear and you're not sort of shoving food in your mouth because you have to put your kids down in the next 30 minutes.

Cristina Alger:
So we kind of make a production of it and it's nice, it's really romantic and my husband actually has now started to cook with me, which is fun. It's a fun different kind of date night so I highly recommend it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So lets talk about The Bankers Wife because I told you this beforehand, I chose to read this rather than watch The Handmaids Tale, which is basically huge, if anyone's every watched The Handmaids Tale, I could not put this book down. I read it in a day and a half, there's a lot of things that happen that at least I didn't see coming at all but make total sense in hindsight, you're like of course, but they don't make sense. Tell us about how you even came up with this idea, did you know about this world, did you know about things like this without getting to into the details, were you witness to this?

Cristina Alger:
I did, you know, I did because ... well I sort of have in two ways. One is the book is set in Geneva and my uncle actually lives in Geneva and so as a child we would spent a lot of time visiting him there and I always thought the ex pat world there was just so glamorous and it's sort of mysterious and ... I just thought it would always be a fabulous sort of setting for a novel. I became really fascinated with the Panama Papers Case, which is the data leak that came out of a Panamanian law firm that did a lot of business with these off shore banks. In the summer of 2016 when I was writing this book the Panama papers had just leaked out and they were all over the news and I'm sort of a nerdy financial news junky, and I just couldn't get enough of this case.

Cristina Alger:
I thought it was so fascinating that someone from inside this law firm had leaked all this really confidential information and it occurred to me that there was this whole world of banking that exists completely outside any sort of regulatory body and it's ... for the ultra rich and it's all operated in kind of numbered bank accounts, and no one knows who owns the numbered bank accounts and it's super shady. It amazed me that there's trillions of dollars in this sort of off shore banking system that exists and all the different people that can be involved, there are drug cartels that store their money, there's Presidents, there are all kinds of people. There was another case I did a lot of research on and it's this man named Bradley Burkenfeld who is an American private banker at UBS, United Bank of Switzerland, and he was a whistleblower.

Cristina Alger:
He ended up ... this is such a crazy story. He knew what he was doing, you know, that he was helping a lot of people evade taxes by having Americans bank at UBS and he knew what he was doing was illegal and he sort of saw the writing on the wall and he ended up becoming a whistleblower for the IRS, and he gave over a lot of confidential information from inside the bank to the DOJ and the IRS. They ended up prosecuting him anyway, so he went to jail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, really?

Cristina Alger:
Yes, for aiding and embedding, tax evasion, and then he walks out of prison and the IRS awards him I think 114 million dollars because ...

Bobbi Rebell:
The finders fee.

Cristina Alger:
Whistleblower, yes. So it's a totally insane story.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you have another best seller on your hands, so congratulations.

Cristina Alger:
Thank you so much, that's so kind.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find out more about you?

Cristina Alger:
Well you can always go to my website, so it's Cristinaalger.com, it's Cristinaalger.com, and also on Penguin Random House they have pages on all the different authors and the books available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, so ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And to follow you on all your social channels.

Cristina Alger:
Yes, definitely, I'm all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Cristina.

Cristina Alger:
No, thank you, it was such a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm still kind of trying to process how Cristina found the time to write while working 120 hours a week, but therein lies the takeaway, financial grown up tip number 1, if you want to do something you love you will find the time because you won't be able to stop yourself. Notice I didn't say it will necessarily pay, separate topics, whether that project will pay, but Cristina wrote her first book as a way to relax and cope with the stress of her job. As it happens, the book was also really good and she was able to turn it into a profitable project, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she was finding the time while working 120 hours a week. So the next time you feel you don't have time for a project, just think about Cristina and finding those pockets of time in that crazy week. If it feels like it's a chore and you're struggling, maybe it's okay to decide not to do it and do other things or maybe you don't time for anything else, that's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So rather than beat yourself up and feel bad about it, just say in this phase of my life I'm not going to do it because I don't have the time and it's not giving me enough joy that I'm going to find a way to make the time, it's okay. Financial grown up tip number 2, we get so many messages these days that we need to build in that date night with our significant other and commit money so that it sticks. When my husband and I had our son, we were told pre-schedule a baby sitter every Saturday night so we were forced to have a date night because things come up otherwise, this way we put money on it, we were going. I have to tell you, paying someone money to sit in our house watching TV while our son slept so we could go to a restaurant, maybe spend money on a taxi to get there, to spend more money for the meal then.

Bobbi Rebell:
It doesn't always work for everyone and sometimes the idea that you're spending all this money puts a lot of pressure on you. Also maybe the money just isn't there for that, maybe your priority is saving for something else, maybe it's paying down debt, maybe that's where your priority is right now and you can make ... and it was great that Cristina pointed this out, you can make a date night at home. Yes, it is absolutely easier to blow off if you haven't made this commitment, but Cristina's example really was telling. The little things are important, her husbands bringing her flowers, they really set the table, that makes a difference. I'm going to try it, maybe you guys can too.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are enjoying the promos and want one for yourself or your business, follow me on social media and share them, I'm going to be choosing a winner soon and it could be you to get a promo made for you or your business. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram and BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook my author page is @BobbiRebell. Also, love it when you guys DM me and share your thoughts on the show and also suggest guests that you would like to see on Financial Grown Up. Everyone, go out and get Cristina Alger's new book, The Bankers Wife, it is the perfect summer read and thank you Cristina for sharing all your money saving tips and advice and experiences and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.

In Andy’s money story you will learn:

-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan

-The emotional backdrop to that mistake

-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision

-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently

In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:

-The options Andy wish he had considered

-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship

In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research

-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan

-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings

In my take you will learn:

-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!

-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well

-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used

-Resources to get more information about 529 plans

Episode Links

Andy’s website:

Marriagekidsandmoney.com

Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook

Listen to Andy’s podcast! 

Follow Andy!!

Twitter @andyhillmkm

Instagram: @AndyHill 827

Facebook @andyhillMKM

 

Learn more about 529’s: 

Link to the SEC website:

https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html

Link to the FINRA website Saving for College

http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college

College Savings Plans Network

http://www.collegesavings.org/

SAVING FOR COLLEGE

https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan

---

Transcription

Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!

Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."

Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.

Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!

Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?

Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]

Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.

Andy Hill:
Nope.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?

Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?

Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?

Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?

Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."

Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."

Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?

Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?

Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."

Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."

Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.

Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.

Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.

Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.

Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.

Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.

Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.

Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.  

In Kayla’s money story you will learn:

-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior

-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences. 

-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year

-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced

-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account

-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21

-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture

-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource

In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:

-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending

-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques

-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending

In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:

-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions

-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances

-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected

-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA. 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business

-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla. 

Episode links:

kaylasloan.com

Twitter @kaylarsloan

Instagram @kaylarsloan

Facebook @krsloan

Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month

You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com

  

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt

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Transcription

Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.

Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.

Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.

Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?

Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?

Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?

Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?

Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?

Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.

Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?

Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?

Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.

Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?

Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.

Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. 

 

In Chris’ money story you will learn

-How Chris Hogan had money wake up call

-Why his spending was spiraling out of control

-How he curbed his grocery spending bill from $1500 a month to close to nothing

-How routine and habit was hurting his wallet

-The specific strategy Chris and his wife used to get back on track with their spending

-The crazy meals the Hogans had while cleaning out their food stash!

In Chris’ lesson you will learn

-Chris’s strategy to avoid mixing up wants and needs

-The importance of being intentional with how you spend your money

-How to curb spending even when you think you can afford it

-Chris’ saying: interest you pay is a penalty but interest you earn is a reward

-How to get debt out of your life

In Chris’ money tip you will learn

-Why he believes cash is the best tool to control spending

-How electronic payments can confuse you and cause you to spend more than you intend

In my take you will learn:

-While eating out can be a budget killer, eating at home can be expensive as well

-Be deliberate at the grocery store- have a list and don’t buy those impulse items!

-Don’t shop hungry

-Use apps like Grocery IQ and Grocery pal to help stay on track in the store and to plan better

-Avoid routine spends. But on purpose, and with purpose!

EPISODE LINKS

Chris Hogan’s website https://www.chrishogan360.com/

Chris Hogan’s book Retire Inspired

Chris Hogan’s podcast Retire inspired https://www.chrishogan360.com/podcast/

Chris Hogan’s Retirement calculator https://www.chrishogan360.com/riq/

Follow Chris!

Instagram @ChrisHogan360

Twitter @ChrisHogan360

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/chrishogan360/

 

Grocery apps to check out:

Grocery IQ

Grocery Pal

 

Here are some stories about Grocery apps:

8 apps that will save you real Money on Food- from Money

http://time.com/money/5095326/8-apps-that-will-save-you-real-money-on-food/

10 Best apps to save money on groceries 2018 from Frugal for Less

https://www.frugalforless.com/apps-to-save-money-on-groceries/

Best Grocery List apps article from best products;

https://www.bestproducts.com/eats/food/g1505/grocery-shopping-list-apps/

6 best grocery shopping list apps for iphone and ipad 2018 from appsdose

http://www.appsdose.com/2015/04/6-best-grocery-shopping-list-apps-for-iphone-ipad.html

7 Grocery List apps for iPhone and Android for best shopping experience

https://mashtips.com/best-grocery-list-app-iphone-android/

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Transcription

Chris Hogan:
You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot these days in our society about being mindful. I'm working hard about bringing that into my life in a consistent and intentional way, but we also need to talk about mindlessness especially when it comes to our every day spending. I love the story that Retire Inspired author and podcast Chris Hogan is about to share with us because of its brilliant simplicity. We need to hear this stuff and know that even the people we look up to when it comes to money have not always been the role models for money mindfulness. He became aware, and once he saw the numbers, change came. Chris Hogan, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's an honor to have you. I am such a fan of all that you do for people from Retire Inspired, the book, to your podcast, to all of your good teachings and advice. It is truly a privilege, and we thank you.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have brought with you a money story about spending and the grocery store, which is something that people don't always realize what's going on there. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Bobbi, I had an issue. I wasn't being a grownup at this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Chris Hogan:
This is back before I had kids. I'm now the proud father of three boys, but no kids, double income household. We were just getting started getting serious about where we were financially and what we were doing. I sat down and was looking at bank statements. I wanted to add up, I wanted to know where was my money going? Where was our money heading? I started adding up the different categories, the eating out, but the grocery bill. This was one that was jumping out at me. I thought, this can't be correct. I went another month back, and yeah, $1,200 a month on groceries, a family of two.

Bobbi Rebell:
What were you buying?

Chris Hogan:
Anything and everything, meats, cheeses, anything and everything at any time. Again, we had the money. We weren't hurting anybody. I went back a third month and added it up. It was like $1,500. I was like, "Okay, let's go back to the $1,200," and it was just too much. Then I started realizing something. I was making the grocery store rich, instead of me building my own wealth. That became my financial wake up call, so to speak. Literally, looking at this, we got intentional. We got on a budget, and we set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries. That was the taking control. I'll never forget, we looked at all the food that I stockpiled. You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store. I realized something. I was shopping out of habit, not out of necessity.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like it was part of your routine. That was your weekend routine.

Chris Hogan:
That's exactly right. It was the routine. Regardless if we needed anything or not, I was going and buying things because I could. Stepping back and really looking at that, we put some parameters in place. We set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries, but before we did that we ate the food that we had. I'll never forget, that was a grownup moment for us, really starting to take a stand because the $1,200 to $1,500 that was normally being spent in that month, we didn't spend it that month. We actually sent it toward our debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
The entire amount?

Chris Hogan:
The entire amount. We had $100 for groceries. We built the milk, and eggs, and things like that. The other stuff, we ate the things that we had. Now I'm not going to lie to you, Bobbi, we had some interesting meals. It was interesting. Ramen noodles with corn. We did some stuff, but we made a stand at that point financially that we were going to be in charge, and our habits weren't going to take charge of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to ask you something. Earlier you said you could afford it, but then you said you were putting that money towards debt. You could afford it in terms of cash flow, but yet maybe you should not have been spending that, clearly, because you could have put it towards debt, so your perception of afford has changed.

Chris Hogan:
Absolutely, it did, because my math changed. Looking at debt, it was one of those things that at that time we rationalized it, because why? Everybody had credit card debt, everybody had a car payment. As you start to look at it, and you start to run the numbers, you understand interest that you pay is a penalty. Interest that you earn is a reward. When you start to learn real math, as I call it, you start to see debt for what it is. It's a threat, and it's a thief. You want to get it out of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this for our listeners?

Chris Hogan:
I'd say, "Be intentional." It's the lesson of wants versus needs, and we can get confused. We can want something so bad that we feel like we need it, but I want us to be clear. Set spending limits for yourself. Understand what you normally spend, but let's put some dollar amounts on there of hey, here's what we're going to spend on groceries. This is what we're going to spend eating out. Now you start to construct that budget. It puts you in control, and then you don't have to feel regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your money tip because this is one, I know what you're going to say. It's so brilliantly simple.

Chris Hogan:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your money tip for everyone that they can use right away?

Chris Hogan:
Right away, my money tip is this. Use cash. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, when you have cash, and you go into the grocery store with that dollar amount, it helps you stay aware, and it helps you stay in control. Now when they say the total amount is $85, and you count out $85 you are feeling the spending of the money as you're counting out those bills as opposed to with a debit card, the swipe, we don't feel the pain there. It's just this swipe. Now there's a chip, and all these things going on. It doesn't become spending until you balance your checking account. Use cash in those areas that you struggle in, whether it's eating out. Get an envelope, write eating out on it. Put a dollar amount in there each and every pay period. When the money is gone, you're done. It's this great reminder, and it keeps us aware of where we stand financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Chris. Thank you so much. I want to hear more quickly about what is going on with you, and what you are working on at Dave Ramsey Solutions and at Retire Inspired. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Yes. We launched Retire Inspired in 2016. I'm working on my second book that we're going to have ready and available for the public in 2019, but I'm traveling all over the country doing smart money events where we walk people through the baby steps. I'm also doing corporate events where I'm talking about money and leadership. They can go check me out at ChrisHogan360.com, look at the events page, and they can find out where I'm at and where I'm going to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
One my favorite things about what you do in your books, and I hope you have this in your next book, is that you really as you travel you get so many unique stories that are relatable, or sometimes hopefully they won't be relatable because some of them can be pretty scary, but I look forward to hearing more of those stories. In terms of social media, always Chris Hogan 360?

Chris Hogan:
Always, everything, on Facebook as well as Twitter, Instagram. @chrishogan360 is where I'm at.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, there was a lot there that I could relate to and have definitely been guilty of. This is a case where I am right in it with you guys. Financial Grownup Tip Number 1: We think of eating out in restaurants as a big expense that has to be watched, and it does, but you can also buy quite expensive items at the grocery store, and have some very pricey home cooked meals, or even worse as in the case of the Hogan household, some expensive food just sitting in the pantry and the freezer. You have to watch that bill. It seems so simple, but make a list when you go shopping and stick to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've heard this before, but I'm going to remind you. Don't shop hungry. It happens, I do it. I always buy more than I should and fall for the impulse items. I'm working on it, and you should too. There are a ton of apps that can help you to be more organized and save money when you shop for groceries. I'm going to put links to a few articles with suggestions in the show notes, but a couple to check out just here, Grocery IQ and Grocery Pal. You make your list, and the app will sort out and show you discounts including those for other brands of the same item. While it may seem like it's okay if you can afford it to spend that extra money at the grocery store, it's not always as okay as it seems. For example, in the Hogan's case, they realized that they could be using that money to pay down debt. They thought that they could afford it, but maybe not so much. If you don't have debt, wouldn't it be more fun to do something else with the money, or more smarter, to invest the money? Savings is a good thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2: Ditch the bad money habits that are just there because they're routine. Chris Hogan was shopping at the grocery every Saturday because it was Saturday. He did not need the food. In fact, he probably didn't have room for it at a certain point. This comes back to things like lattes. If you want one because you want one, and you can afford it, that's fine, but if you're just buying one every morning because that's your routine, think about it. Maybe you want to do something else some days.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to thank all of you for your ratings and reviews on iTunes. It is making a huge difference in helping others discover our new podcast. I also want to thank Forbes for naming Financial Grownup one of the five podcasts that is getting it right. It was amazing to be getting that kind of recognition less than two months after we started this project. Keep spreading the word, friends, and keep in touch. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell and on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Facebook. Check me out under Bobbi Rebell and learn more about the show at, you're getting the theme here, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Chris Hogan is pretty much as grown up as it gets. I loved his episode, and I hope you did too, and that it got us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. 

 

In Joe’s money story you will learn:

-Joe’s penny pinching philosophy- and how it backfired

-The impact of getting a gig on local tv

-Joe’s off-base take on how to develop trust in clients

 

In Joe’s lesson you will learn:

-The true cost of plastic shoes

-Why your co-workers may not tell you the truth

-How to avoid some of Joe’s mistakes

-How Joe invested in fixing his image problem, and increased his wealth

-Ways to get feedback on not just your career but also other aspects of your life

 

In Joe’s money tip you will learn:

-How to delegate one person to be the lead family financial manager

-What Joe refers to as ‘fantasyland'

-The one thing Joe does that avoids fighting about money in his family

-How to spot mistakes in your bills

 

In my take you will learn:

-The value of investing in your personal appearance

-What Kevin O’Leary had to say about investing in quality clothing and accessories

-How I have been burned by low quality purchases as fast fashion stores

-Why renting clothing can be a viable option that may work for your budget

-The importance of constantly upgrading your skills through education including online courses. 

 

Episode links:

Mint

Clarity Money

Moneylion

Udemy

Rent the Runway

 

Follow Joe Saul-Sehy!

 

Joe’s course How to legally cheat on your taxes

Joe’s money in the mornings show on facebook

Joe’s Facebook group

 

Money in the Morning podcast

Stacking Benjamins podcast

 

Twitter: @averagejoemoney

Facebook: Facebook.com/stackingbenjamins

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. 

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss the value of investing in your personal appearance. #AppearanceTips #InvestInYourself

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Transcription

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. This episode is all about investing in yourself. Whether it comes to your wardrobe or your education as you hear and will hear more from our guest Joe Saul-Sehy is the host of the crazy popular award winning Stacking Benjamins podcast. I don't have time to list all of the awards it has won but they include Best Business Podcast from the Academy of Podcasters, and Best Finance Podcast by Kiplinger. They also win a lot of these Plutus Awards among others.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're going to really like Joe's story. If you're a good dresser you're going to feel validated for spending all that time, effort and money. If you're not such a good dresser, I hope you're going to get motivated. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe Saul-Sehy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I can't believe I made it here. I must be a grownup if I made it here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You must, and you're up early these days. We're going to talk more about it later, but congratulations on the launch of Money In The Morning. It's awesome, and I love the music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you. We picked it out just for you Bobbi. That's our whole thing, if we can win with Bobbi we win with everybody, so there we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's happy music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is happy music, and I need happy music with coffee in the morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've evolved a lot in your grownup life, but there was a time, and we're leading into your money story here Joe, when you were a bit of a cheapskate. It wasn't just affecting you, it was really affecting your whole universe. Do tell.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I was a financial planner for 16 years. During that time I was teaching people how to pinch pennies and cut corners where they could. I thought, "You know, I really should take my own advice." I learned a valuable lesson here because people come to see you and they expect a certain type of person, but at the time I didn't think about that. I thought, "You know what? I'm in my office all day. I'm never out of my office." When I am, I started doing a television gig in Detroit at WXYZ Channel Seven, go Detroit. Even when I did that, people didn't see my shoes. So I went from really nice shoes-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well people that were watching you on camera did not see your shoes.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
People watching me on television didn't see my shoes. People that I interfaced with on a daily basis, they did, and my clients did. So I went from these really nice shoes that I had to these plastic shoes. You know, the shoes that buy at-

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know about plastic shoes Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Of course you don't. Like a Payless shoes. I would go there and I'd find these shoes that looked nice, but they looked like they were polished but they really were just plastic-y. For about a year, I for those. I dumbed down my suits, I wore cheaper ties. I thought, "People trust me, they like me. I don't need to spend a lot of money on this stuff." And then I realized that everything that I was doing was wrong one day, when I finally bought some new shoes and I went to my mentor's office, and the very first thing he said Bobbi, I walk in he said, "It's about time you got rid of those cheap shoes."

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I said, "What are you talking about? I've had those for a year. How come you didn't tell me?" He goes, "Well, I just thought you'd find out sooner or later by yourself." So I realized then that everyone notices. Then when I hired a firm to help me look better on TV, because I also-

Bobbi Rebell:
You hired someone.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're really investing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Yes, because I realized from the shoes, I realized I kind of have to invest in my career, and then I realized how bad everything was. The very first thing that the firm said that I hired, they said, "Well, we need to give you a big boy haircut." Because I was still wearing this haircut that I had from college, this is back when I had hair. They changed my look to be a more sophisticated haircut, to be shorter, to be more conservative, to look the part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They went with me shopping for clothes to show me how I could still spend less money on clothes, but I had to dress much more smart. I had to be trust ... and it's funny how that changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part. I don't know about you Bobbi, I don't trust people who look too good, people that are dressed to the nines. For whatever reason I don't trust them, but that doesn't give you an excuse to not dress appropriately, and I guess even to widen it, to take responsibility for your career. We have to take responsibility for this thing that we call a career and make it our own?

Bobbi Rebell:
Expending on that, what is the lesson for our listeners from the story?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I think the big lesson is don't wait for somebody else to give you this feedback about your career. Look in the mirror, and not just in the physical aspects like I was, but look in the mirror when it comes to your relationships with your family, with your relationship with money, with your relationship with your job. It's far easier, everybody wants to pinch pennies, it's far easier to go make a lot more money that it is to pinch pennies. It's funny, we might be able to save 50 cents or a dollar, but we could make $100 this week if we just looked outside ourself and went looking. I mean, there are so many job opportunities online, there are so many things to do. Look in the mirror and take responsibility for yourself was something that I learned that day that I try to teach other people now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And grow the top line.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Grow the top line, amen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a money tip, something personal that you and your family do that people can maybe make their own and do right away.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I just said, focus on the top line Bobbi, but I also look at the bottom line. Because if we can stretch the difference between the two of those, then that's where we experience growth. In a lot of families what I noticed is that one person in the family, like you have a budgeting partner, a spouse, a significant other, one person usually knows where every dollar is, every dime is. The other person's in a place I refer to as fantasy land. They think they know, they have this general feeling, but they also know the other person's taking care of it.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's when fights begin. That's when bad things happen in a relationship, it's because the person in fantasy land all the sudden realizes the fantasy doesn't look the way they thought that it should have, so there ends up being friction. To avoid friction, something that Cheryl my spouse, and I implemented and that I like to teach people how to do, is just have a quick weekly meeting. Maybe 15 minutes over breakfast, or I prefer over wine.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the evening, not wine at breakfast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's wine, iHop, you're probably [crosstalk 00:07:10]

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I'm not judging but you know.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's right, good for somebody but maybe not me. The thing I like about this weekly meeting though is it's quick, it's actually fun. We look through ... I use an app called Clarity Money but you can Mint, you can use MoneyLion. There's lots of apps out there. You could even just use a spreadsheet or look through, go to your bank website and take a look at what expenses you had. It's very easy, here's the way we do it. We look through all the upcoming expenses. What are we going to spend money on in the next week? We talk through that. Then the second thing we do is we look at the previous week's expenses and we see if there were any mistakes on any of our bills. What's funny is, we find so many mistakes. It's horrifying how many-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're never in your favor.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They never ever ... It's amazing that none of them ... Yeah, isn't that shocking. Yeah, business is always taking from me. And then also look for recurring expenses that you don't need anymore. I found just a couple weeks ago that there's been a recurring meeting, because we miss meetings from time to time and I must have missed it the last two years in a row. There's a Norton subscription that I've had for the last two years that I don't have hooked up to anything. That's a $100 a year for this subscription. It was really ... Luckily I caught it. I was able to get back this year, I can't go back and get the year before that, but have that money refunded to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, which also is cool. But the best thing is, Cheryl and I now go through the week and we know where the dollars are going to be spent. If things change we've got this open line of communication. I've got to tell you, it's so fun. The weekly meeting is so fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. And you know what's really fun? Is spending less on your taxes. I have a CFP, but I have to tell you, especially because I got the CFP before the new tax law was passed. I find it a little bit overwhelming, but you have out that can help a little bit.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. Thanks for mentioning this, because we were going to call this, Bobbi, we were going to call it Understanding The Tax Form, but that sounds so boring. It just sounds so-

Bobbi Rebell:
I would want that. I would do that one, but maybe not other people.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
[crosstalk 00:09:10] Yeah, you and I are money nerds so that's great. But here's what somebody did with me, this is the genesis of the course. I thought taxes were kind of mystical and I would ask people, "Can I write this off? Is this something that maybe I can take advantage of? Is this taxable? Is this not taxable? How does it all work?" Somebody sat down with me and walk through the 1040 and how the 1040 works, and then the itemized deductions page and how that works.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Once I knew that, and what's cool is it's only three pages, once we walked through that I totally then could see what I could write off, what I couldn't write off, where my opportunities might be, how my retirement plan fit into the big picture, what the downsides might be in the future, what tax problems I might have in the future. We call the course How To Legally Cheat On Your Taxes, and it is a lot of fun. It's a do at your own pace course. It teaches you how taxes work. You can do two things. Number one, put Humpty Dumpty together, like right now during tax season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, it's coming.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Put things together- Yeah, put things together in a way that helps. But that's not where the magic is. I think the real magic is doing things through the year so that when you're trying to put Humpty Dumpty together next year, you're able to do that much, much better because you knew how taxes worked going in. I think that the powerful thing. That's the reason we created it, was to try to get people that same leg up that I got.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Where can people find that? And where can people find you? I know Facebook in the morning, it's fascinating people. You can him do Money In The Mornings on Facebook and you can see how everything is made.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's so-

Bobbi Rebell:
Including the bloopers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. I was going to say, it's so uncomfortable because ... and I did it live on Facebook to try to force myself to do ... We talked earlier about taking responsibility for your career. One thing I do, I'm a natural stutterer, and do try to get around stuttering-

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes, and to make myself more natural on camera and try to get used to that. I started doing these daily Facebook Lives and say, "You know what, we're going to do this show without a net." So Money In The Morning is without a net, five days a week, wherever you're listening to this show. We just do two quick headlines. It's live, and man sometimes bad stuff happens. Which I think some people listen to it just to hear the car wreck.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right. Just to hear some of the bad stuff that sometimes happens, because you can't take it back if it's live.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. All right, so where can people find you and the course and everything?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, yeah. That's wherever you listen to this podcast, is where you can find Money In The Morning or Stacking Benjamins, our main show. The course is at learn.stackingbenjamins.com, that course, and we have a couple others, Save 50% Of Your Income and a quick hit course on your benefits package, so when you are going through open enrollment every year. Just a very quick, like, "What do I need to remember while I'm doing my open enrollment?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Where can people find you social media before we go?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I am @AverageJoeMoney on Twitter, stop by and say hi. On Facebook it's facebook.com/istackbenjamins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, thank you so much.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thanks Bobbi. This was so fun. I'm so happy that I'm finally a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are. Congratulations Joe. Here is my take on what Joe had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one, wear quality clothing. This is something that previous guests Kevin O'Leary touched on as well with respect especially to his mother. Not only is it important to look your best in business, but you often come out financially ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get tempted like everyone by the fast fashion places. I always get burned. I buy a sweater for 20 bucks, it looks identical to the one for 200 in the department store, so I think I'm really smart. But then, after a couple of wearings, it's trash. I'm going to let you guys in on an open secret. Notice that I said wear quality clothing. I did not say buy. If you come see me speak, I am often wearing a very expensive designer dress that I don't own. It's rented. The designer handbag I'm carrying, you got it, probably rented. That way I get the benefits of always showing up in a well made dress without having to constantly invest in buying expensive clothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, always keep learning. Joe talked about education, so whatever interests you or will further your career, get better at it. If you work for a big company, always find out what they will pay for. My first employer, CNBC, paid for my CFP classes. There are also incredible online resources from LinkedIn to Udemy, even Investopedia has great online classes. In fact many top universities are putting their classes online and you can often audit them for free. Make yourself smarter, it will probably pay off for you financially, but you'll also probably enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. It's amazing. Please, follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on everything going on with the show. I hope you enjoyed Joe's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by [Steve Stuart 00:14:28] and is a BRK Media production.

Rebecca Jarvis, ABC News Chief Business, Technology and Economics Correspondent, and Host and Managing editor of the “No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis” podcast learned her financial lessons early.

But the truth about the value of that education really came to light when she learned what was going on with a dear friend.  

You will learn why you want Rebecca, and friends like her, on your team. 

 

Rebecca's money story:

• The  money lessons from her journalist mom that set her on the right path

• How Rebecca has helped her friends who have run into money trouble

• The ways that poor money decisions can hurt your opportunities, including jobs

• How banks sometimes lure young people into borrowing more money than they can afford

 

Rebecca’s lesson: 

• specific tools to figure out wants vs. needs. 

• advice on how to maintain a budget

• her favorite app for managing money

Rebecca’s money tip:

• How to make sure your education pays off

• What kind of classes to take post-college

• To be featured as a women entrepreneur of the week email Rebecca Jarvis nolimitswithrjpodcast@gmail.com

Links to people and things we talked about in this episode

• No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis podcast

• Robin Roberts

• Gabby Bernstein

• Sheila Nevins

• Randi Zuckerberg

• Mint

• CFP Board

• The Federal Reserve

Rebecca Jarvis learned her financial lessons early. The truth about the value of that education really came to light when she learned what was going on with a dear friend. Listen to this Financial Grownup episode to learn Rebecca's advice on how to maintain a budget and her favorite app for managing money. #MoneyManagement #Budget

Transcription

Rebecca Jarvis:
He even had some issues along the way when he was applying to jobs. If they think of you as somebody who's not a credit worthy individual, they can say, "Hmm is this person really responsible."

Bobbie Rabell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbie Rabell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbie Rabell:
Hey friends, welcome to another edition of Financial Grownup. I do want to first take a moment to thank those of you who are already supporting the show through subscribing, and of course through rating and reviewing it. Those early reviews have been so precious to me. They are truly appreciated, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. If you haven't rated or reviewed the show and you like it, or you just want to give me some feedback, please do so. It means the world to me.

Bobbie Rabell:
All right, this guest is amazing and inspiring. She was spared some of the most damaging early in life mistakes that so many of us make thanks in large part to her mom's early lessons about using credit cards and the dangers of debt. But, here's where it gets really good guys. In addition to learning early on how to be financially responsible herself, what I love about speaking with her and what really comes through in this interview is that she is an empathetic and truly supportive friend. Many of her friends, for whatever reason, didn't have the ideal financial educations or experiences, but she is there for them. She is not judgmental. She is helpful. Rebecca Jarvis is the Chief Business Technology and Economics Correspondent at ABC News. She is also host of one of my personal favorite podcasts, No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis, which you should definitely check out. In the meantime, here is my interview with Rebecca Jarvis.

Bobbie Rabell:
Rebecca Jarvis, you are such a financial grownup and I'm so excited to have you on the program. Welcome.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you so much Bobbie. I'm so excited to chat with you. I love your books. I love you. You set a great example for so many people.

Bobbie Rabell:
Thank you.

Rebecca Jarvis:
So thank you for what you're doing.

Bobbie Rabell:
Well, speaking of great examples, I am such a fan of the No Limits podcast, which is no moving into live events, which is awesome. I mean I could literally spend my entire podcast rattling off all of my favorite episodes. Of course, I love the live show you just did, which featured Robin Roberts, who holds a special place in my heart because she survived a horrible disease that my mother did not survive. Every time I look at Robin I get emotional and happy for her. I love the Sheila Nevins episode, which is dishy. I'm basically telling people to go through your archives. Of course, my friend Randy Zuckerberg, who is amazing. Tell me more about what's going on for 2018 with No Limits.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you. I really appreciate that. We are starting to do more live podcasts. We did this most recent one with Robin Roberts. Also, Gabby Bernstein, which a number of people probably know from the space. She had an awakening, a moment in her life where she hit rock bottom, and she figured out gratitude to come back and be a stronger person. But what we're looking at now is a year ahead where we will be doing some live events. We'll continue to talk to game changing women. That's my mission statement is to talk to women who have broken down walls, who have figured out how to play the game, set the rules, and looking at their paths, the trade offs along the way, the choices that they've made along the way, what success really means to them and how they're figuring out balancing all of it. It's really honest, authentic conversations. My favorite thing Bobbie is when a guest will say, "I've never told this to anyone before." I know we're in the right spot if that's the conversation that we're having.

Rebecca Jarvis:
We'll continue to do that. We also will continue to feature and highlight women from our community who are No Limits entrepreneurs of the week. Every single week we feature a listener who is building an empire of her own, and how she's doing it. She gets featured on her Instagram account, on my Instagram account. She gets featured on the podcast and we share a little bit about her story. Anybody who wants to apply for that can always email me at nolimitswithrjpodcast@gmail.com. Feel free to send me ideas and submissions as well. I do read all of the emails there.

Bobbie Rabell:
Okay, I can't wait to see who is going to be next on No Limits, but I'm also looking forward to your money story. It's a good one, do tell.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Okay. I would say that for me my money story, it started early. My mom is a financial journalist. She's a columnist at Reuters. When I was a kid, she was a columnist at the Minnesota newspaper where I grew up. She sat me down before college. The conversation that we had prior to me leaving for college was all about credit cards. It wasn't your typical going off to college conversation, but she talked me through the idea that when you go to college, and the rules were a little bit different back then, you could be a bank and advertise anywhere on campus for people to sign up for credit cards. She said they're going to be everywhere. They're going to be hounding you. They're going to tell you it's great, it's the best thing in the world. Don't do it. You need-

Bobbie Rabell:
By the way, people should know, no longer allowed, but they were bribing you too probably.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Exactly. Exactly. That's the latest story that just came out that a lot of these banks are now even working with the colleges and giving kickbacks to the colleges. Anyway, my mom sat me down, she had this conversation with me and basically said, "Becky, whatever you do, do not sign up for these credit card offers that sound too good to be true. You don't need to do that. Instead, save your money and think about every penny that you spend is money that's coming out of your savings account. Don't spend money that you don't have." That really made a huge impact on me. I have to say because I now in my life have two credit cards. From that point forward, I was just much more skeptical. I think, I look around at a number of my friends who didn't necessarily have those conversations ... I actually had a really good friend in college who he ran up $10,000 in credit card debt not fully recognizing at the time that he would eventually have to pay that back.

Bobbie Rabell:
Oh no.

Rebecca Jarvis:
And he's a smart guy.

Bobbie Rabell:
And it's not just pay it back. It's pay it back and paying interest.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Exactly, which the interest on credit cards is always going to be the highest interest that you're going to get. It's way higher than the amount of interest that you pay on a mortgage. Way higher than the interest that you'd pay on a student loan. Credit card debt is some of the worst debt that you can take on. Anyway, this friend of mine, his credit score was ruined so he couldn't go out and get a mortgage or a car loan post-college. He also ended up not being able to afford paying off the loans and ultimately his family had to step in and help in. He even had some issues along the way when he was applying to jobs. If they think of you as somebody who's not a credit worthy individual, they can say, "Hmm, is this person really responsible?" He was. He was totally responsible. But anyway, that was a big lesson for me along the way just thinking about debt and my mom sitting me down. I'm so thankful that she did, talking to me about it early on.

Bobbie Rabell:
Besides obviously not getting into credit card debt in college, what is your lesson for our listeners? What is the takeaway?

Rebecca Jarvis:
I think that one of the biggest takeaways is recognizing that no matter how much money you have, or feel that you don't have, budgeting and thinking through your needs versus wants is a really valuable thing. There's research out there that shows that almost every person, whether they have $10 in their pocket or $100,000 in their pocket, is very likely spending more on wants than they're truly aware of. I cover so many stories about people who have gotten out of debt. One of the biggest things that the people who have gotten out of debt have done is they figured out, they've gone through line by line, their spending for the last three months.

Rebecca Jarvis:
They've said where am I spending on my needs versus where am I spending on my wants. One of the greatest things that you can do for yourself is think about what those wants are in the short term, and if you can cut back on those wants, you will make sure that you have the future cushion and money to spend on your needs and to get out of that debt. I think it's a really important thing to budget and to look at needs versus wants.

Bobbie Rabell:
Do you have any specific recommendations for budgeting? Do you budget?

Rebecca Jarvis:
I've done the budget. You literally sit down with your credit card statements and you go through line by line. You can use a ruler to go through line by line. You circle every single time you see something on that credit card statement that is a want verus a need, you circle it. It's a reminder to yourself that those are not the things, especially if you're already in debt, which so many people are. Credit card debt just passed $1 trillion. It's at the highest level, a record level. Going through those credit card statements, circling the wants. You don't have to go out and get an app. You don't have to go out and get some fancy technology to do this. It is really right in front of you right now. Most people have bank accounts and credit cards that are already on the internet, that you can access on the internet.

Rebecca Jarvis:
I really like Mint. I think Mint is a good app where my husband and I have all of our, every single loan, every single piece of money, every single paycheck, feeds into our Mint account so we have a full picture of how much we have, or need to spend towards various areas. I do think that that's a good way, but I don't want people to feel complicated. We don't have to over complicate it. It's as easy as taking a look at that whatever it is, whether it's your checking account, or it's your credit card, and saying where am I spending my money and where am I wasting my money.

Bobbie Rabell:
Right, the numbers tell you the story.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Yes, completely.

Bobbie Rabell:
Before I let you go, I do want you to give us a money tip. Something you or maybe your husband uses. Something that our listeners can put to work right now.

Rebecca Jarvis:
One tip that doesn't relate to debt or any of the things we've already talked about that I really like is if you are spending money, think about how that money can help improve you in some way, education, additional learning, whether it's useful to your community. Those are the areas where that dollar, whatever amount of money that you're putting out there, will come back to you ten X, will come back to you so much, with so much more value than just the single penny or dollar that you've spent. Think about those places, when you are spending, think about those places where it goes beyond that sugar rush of oh I just got this new thing. Think about those areas where if you spend your money on something to make yourself better or stronger, then you will gain so much more from that dollar than if you just spend it on whatever thing is sitting in front of you.

Bobbie Rabell:
Can you give us a personal example?

Rebecca Jarvis:
Well for me, I've spent my money on education. I mean that's probably the biggest thing I've ever spent my personal money on is going to college, taking ... I'm not good. I'm not there yet, but taking Spanish classes. I haven't done this yet this year, but I was looking at different art classes because I really love art and I really would love to be able to create art better. Even things like a gym class, for example, if you feel healthier, and it's something that you feel like you can regularly commit to. I have a group of girlfriends that I work out with now, and I will spend money on those workouts with that group of girls because it has genuinely made my life exponentially better.

Bobbie Rabell:
It's all about experience versus just having more stuff. Thank you so much Rebecca.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you.

Bobbie Rabell:
This was wonderful. Rebecca Jarvis, No Limits. I can't wait to hear all of your episodes for 2018 and beyond. Thank you so much.

Rebecca Jarvis:
Thank you. Have a great day Bobbie.

Bobbie Rabell:
Wow, Rebecca had a lot of great info and advice. Here is my take. I want to pick up on Rebecca's money tip and the importance of investing in yourself through education. I have always done this, and I really encourage everyone to do it as well. Most recently, some of you know this, I became a certified financial planner. It was a huge investment, both in time and money, but I felt strongly that if I was going to be here giving advice I need to know my stuff. Can I be stumped? Well, definitely. You guys will definitely be able to stump me, and I'm still figuring out the new tax law, but after I left Reuters last spring, I did take a break and I got my CFP.

Bobbie Rabell:
Over the years I've also gone back to school when things just didn't make sense, or I wanted to know more. For example, early on at my first job at CNBC I realized I honestly, truly did not understand how the fed worked. It was something that I would go on to write about quite a bit in my career, so I took a class. I kid you not, I literally took a class on how the fed worked, how the federal reserve worked. There is a class on that. It doesn't get nerdier. I even took a class on technical analysis because it was just so strange and I didn't understand it. Still don't get it 100%, but the point is I'm always learning.

Bobbie Rabell:
So how do you make it work, both from a money perspective and a time one? Financial grownup tip number one, get someone else to pay for it. If you work for a large company, odds are they have a program to reimburse tuition. Some may require good grades. All the better. Incentives are good. If they don't have a program, ask your boss if the company can pay for a course. Explain how improving your knowledge will ultimately benefit the company. For example, if you want to learn a language like Spanish or Mandarin, you could help the company break into markets where that language dominates, or maybe open up an office in another country. Find a way to make your case and get them to pay for it. If not, there are nonprofits that support continuing education, as well as government programs. Do some homework, find the money.

Bobbie Rabell:
Financial grownup tip number two, and this one is harder. Find the time. We are all so busy. Finding time for something that seems like an extra may seem like a non-starter. I had this problem when I decided I was going to write my book. I had a very demanding job, and was barely seeing my family as it was. I would get home literally just in time to tuck my son into bed before I ate a quick dinner and crashed for the night exhausted. I mean I couldn't even get to the mail pile. But then, I thought about it. I decided I was going to write this book and I was going to find the time. But where?

Bobbie Rabell:
Well, I found the earliest time I could drop my son off at his school, and even if I had a ton of work and a huge busy day ahead of me, I did not go into the office early. I created a window of time between school drop off and my job, my primary job, and stuck to it as a protected time. No plans with friends. No grabbing coffee with the other moms. No doctors appointments. No phone calls. Just the book. And it worked. Find the a time slot that you can carve out and then protect it like a beast. It works.

Bobbie Rabell:
All right, that wraps up this episode of Financial Grownup. Thank you again for all of your support. If you like the show, or just want to give me some feedback, please rate and review it in iTunes, and of course share it with your friends. I truly appreciate all of your support.

Bobbie Rabell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is a BRK Media production.