Grant Sabatier was ready to retire at age 30 with over a million dollars saved - in large part by being mindful of his big expenses. The the author of "Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” shocked many followers by moving to New York City, one of the most expensive cities in the world. 

In Grant's money story you will learn:

• The reason behind Grant's controversial to move from Chicago to the more expensive NYC- despite it's impact on his FIRE goals

• How much more expensive NYC really is compared to Chicago if you apply Grant's money strategies

• Why he feels NYC lifestyle justifies the higher cost

• One thing he loves that is actually less expensive in NYC than it was in Chicago

• The surprising differences he found in cost of living between the two cities.

In Grant’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels that "money only matters when you can live a life you love"

• The things you can do to retire in 10-20 years or less

• Why he feels that cutting out the small things that bring us joy isn't necessarily the best way to save

• The best areas in budgeting you can save your money in

In Grant's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The exact questions he asks himself-and you should before making a purchase to determine it's true cost and value

• Where to find resources to make the calculations yourself

In My Take you will learn:

• How using a calculator can help to change your mindset

• Why it's important to not get caught up in the labels and trends

Episode links:

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Financial Freedom book trailer

• Financial Freedom podcast

Check out Grant's websites -

• Millennial Money

• Financial Freedom Book

Follow Grant!

• Instagram @MillennialMoneyCom and @FinancialFreedom

• LinkedIn

• Twitter @MillennialMoney

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Speaker 1:
What kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is, okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. So excited about this episode. Amazing guests we have here, Grant Sabatier. He is the author of the new book Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. That sounds pretty good. He is also known as the creator of Millennial Money and as you will hear, he went from having just a couple of bucks to his name to being a millionaire. In fact, having more than a million bucks by following the principles of the FIRE movement. By the way that stands for financial independence, retire early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant also came up with a lot of new ideas of his own that he put to work to reach his goals. He recently did something very controversial and surprising to many people in the FIRE movement. In fact, I personally was totally caught off guard and thought I heard it wrong because it just didn't make sense that he of all people would do this. More in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick hello to everyone. We have a lot of new listeners in the new year, so welcome. We interview high achievers here on the Financial Grownup Podcast who share many stories that we can all learn from along with everyday money tips. And we keep it short so you can stack a few episodes together to fit your commute, your workout or whatever you're up to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Grant's unbelievable story. So many takeaways from this interview and then from his book. Again, can't believe he actually did this. Here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant Sabatier, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Grant Sabatier:
Hey, glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations. You book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need is about to be a huge best seller. We were just talking offline about all the big plans you have, including your trailer just came out. I just watched it. So cool. Congrats on all.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. It's been a long time coming. It's like a two year plus project and I'm just super excited to have it released worldwide and hear and get the feedback and help as many people as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is the latest step on a journey you've been on since going from having I think what $2.26 to your name, something like that, to having $1.25 million. You skyrocketed to fame with your Millennial Money website.

Grant Sabatier:
I feel, even though I'm only 33, I feel like I'm kind of in the bonus years of my life in a lot of ways and it's super cool and I'm grateful for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I hope every year feels like a bonus year for you. This has been a big year. I want to talk and you agreed to share his story about a controversial decision that you recently made that sounds contradictory to a lot of the things that people in the FIRE movement, which is financial independence, retire early, which you're part of advocate. You moved to New York City. My home. So welcome by the way.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not the most bargain place to be building up your financial nest egg Grant. What's going on? Tell us your money story.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, that's a great question. I've gotten that a lot recently. You're right. Compared to Chicago where I was living, where I became financially independent, New York City has about a 2.35X cost of living multiple, meaning things are about 2.35 times as expensive here than in Chicago. So based on that, you would expect to need at least double the amount of money.

Grant Sabatier:
But those are just statistics and one of the things that, I did quite a bit of preparation before I moved to New York City to get a sense for obviously what apartments cost and what food costs. And one of the things that I pretty quickly realized was you can make whatever life you want in New York City. Even though writ large, it's incredibly expensive. It's incredibly expensive to buy real estate here. It often doesn't make sense to buy real estate if you're going to be here for less than six or seven years.

Grant Sabatier:
But from a rental perspective, there's actually an incredible amount of affordable rentals that I was able to find. Food is actually categorically less expensive than in Chicago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. Good example, I'm a huge raspberry fan. I eat them every morning. I love them. It's just something that I know the price of. And in Chicago it was about $4 for just a little bunch of raspberries. And a block and a half from my apartment in New York City. I'm able to get them for $1.50.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, tell me, let me stop you here. So why did you move to, a lot of people might be surprised because to achieve financial freedom, a lot of people, including you, talk about yeah, watch the little things, but really watch the big things. Like housing, like your food bill, the big things. And yet you upsized the biggest thing to some degree. People often move to less expensive locations, at least while they're building up their nest egg, which I understand you already did.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us about the decision to move to a more expensive city, or more expensive in most ways. Why and what it's been like.

Grant Sabatier:
So actually, ironically, I've been in New York City six months and I spent, I think it's 17, I keep track of all this stuff about 17 to 20 percent less than the previous six months that I lived in Chicago. So it's actually been less expensive to live in New York City. My rent here is less than the mortgage payment that I was paying on my apartment.

Grant Sabatier:
I moved to New York City because I lived in Chicago for pretty much all of the last 14 years. I went to college in Chicago and was more than ready for a change. I always wanted to live in New York City. I grew up on the east coast. I wanted to come back. I don't know if I'm going to be a New York City lifer, but because the book's coming out, the proximity to media, I'm a huge fan of the Catskills and the Hudson River Valley. I think they're incredibly beautiful. I'd visited them a few times. And in fact I spend quite a bit of time there now.

Grant Sabatier:
And so for me, obviously housing, transportation and food, that's where the average American spends 70% or more of their income. And if you can control those three expense categories, then you can really kind of win the game. And so the most important thing with my move was affordable housing.

Grant Sabatier:
It's important to mention that I'm already financially independent. And so I became financially independent in 2015 and so I've had a pretty solid market since then. My investments have done well. So now I have more than enough money, so I'm able to hedge in that way. I think it certainly would be more difficult if I had started my financial independence journey in New York City. I had a lot of advantages to doing it in Chicago, which is writ large, more affordable. But because I'm already financially independent, I have more advantages.

Grant Sabatier:
But with that being said, the past few years, I never spend with my wife more than $50,000 a year. I'm on pace based on the way I've set up my life to probably spend in the $45,000, $48,000 range in 2019 in New York City.

Bobbi Rebell:
You mentioned that people have questioned this decision, including me. Do you feel that you've had to kind of defend it as part of the FIRE movement?

Grant Sabatier:
Oh, definitely. I think there's a little bit of a judgment inherent in some of the community and to me FIRE, it can really mean whatever you want it to mean and that's the beautiful thing about it. It's what kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Grant Sabatier:
I think the lesson is that you have so much more control. I mean, money really only matters if it helps you live a life that you love. I think that that idea is so central to money. And if you're not happy with your life, if you're stressed out and you're paying too much rent, you have the ability to move to a different neighborhood, get a roommate for a while to downsize.

Grant Sabatier:
I mean, when I was becoming financially independent in Chicago, I moved from a $1,500 a month apartment to an $800 a month apartment and yes, it was smaller. Yes it was crappier. But I was able to sleep better at night because I knew I was investing that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's to your everyday money tip and this could apply to small items or to big decisions. And one thing I liked in your book, as you do a lot of math and you have a special way of calculating purchases or things you're considering buying that can really illustrate the impact of different choices. Go for it.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. So in the book, in one of the chapters, Is it Worth it, I outline 11 questions that you can ask yourself. If you go to financialfreedom book.com, you can download these 11 questions, keep them on your phone. You can print them out. And the questions are built around helping you figure out is it worth buying. And some of the trade offs that are in the book that you can calculate are how much of your life did you trade for this purchase? And one of those things, we can go to a car example, a $40,000 car if you're making $20 per hour after you factor in taxes and commuting time, it's gonna take you 2000 hours, an entire year of your life to afford that car. And on the flip side, you also lose the potential of that $40,000 to grow, which is even more profound.

Grant Sabatier:
And one of the things that I found, because I was interested in buying a $40,000 car, is that I would actually have to work almost six years longer in the future in order to afford that car because of the lost opportunity of not investing that money.

Grant Sabatier:
The best way to save money is just not to spend it because there's kind of, I call it the net effective spending, where whenever you buy anything, not only are you trading the time that you spent to make that money, but you're also trading the ability for that money to grow and the freedom that it buys you in the future. And that's kind of a mindset shift because I actually figured out that every $100 that I would spend, you know you go out to a nice meal and have a couple of drinks with your partner or with a friend and you know, say you spend $100. I figured out that I'd actually have to work four more days in the future in order to afford $100 purchase.

Grant Sabatier:
And so every time I spent $100, I was sacrificing for days of future freedom. And I literally went around and I have a calculator that I built called the Financial Freedom Calculator at financialfreedombook.com where you can put in all your own numbers and it'll tell you whether it's a $5 cup of coffee or a $40,000 car. It'll tell you in your own life how much freedom, how much time you're actually trading for that purchase.

Bobbi Rebell:
One are the things that I love about your book is all of the tools that it has and the different links. So it's kind of like the book will live on beyond the printed book, although some people will listen to it and read it on electronic books. But I love those tools because it makes it very granular and very specific and user friendly. Tell us a little bit more about the book and where people can find more about you and all your social channels grant. We love to follow you.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, so financialfreedombook.com is the best place to learn about the book. On the book website you can learn all about the book. You can also use all the tools and the book for free before you even buy the book. So there are nine calculators on there. They all work on your phone. I already have people who've read the book and they've bookmarked them and they're going into the store and they're using the calculators, which is super cool. So financialfreedombook.com. It's available wherever books are sold. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, your favorite local book seller. So I guess just go check it out. It's a bright blue cover with a bird on the front.

Grant Sabatier:
Social channels, you should check out the book Instagram account that I just launched. You can follow me around the world. I'm going to be visiting 40 different cities this spring and 17 countries in the fall so @financialfreedom on Instagram. And then hit me up, millennialmoney.com is my website. At millennialmoney on Twitter, those are the best ways to reach me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. And I also love your new book trailer. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes as well. So thank you Grant.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you Bobbi. This is a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so glad we were able to talk about those calculators. They are a good thing in this case.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one. I'm not always a huge fan of big budgets and counting up every dollar that you spend because it can feel so restrictive and you feel deprived. Almost like being on a diet. It is kind of like being on a money diet. And no one's going to feel good about that. And when you feel bad, at a certain point you're going to reach your breaking point and that's going to be the edge. You're going to fall off the bandwagon just like you do with the food diet. And hopefully as we get through January, we won't be falling off the bandwagon with all of our goals. We're all working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, taking the time however, to use a calculator like the ones that grant has put together to figure out the relationship between your purchases and their true cost and your life can totally change your mindset. I remember when Starbucks started putting calorie counts on the food in that counter, all those yummy cookies and goodies and stuff. So I love this yellow icing lemon cake. They have it there still in many of these Starbucks. I'm still obsessed with them as you can tell, but I don't really get them anymore because even though I always knew they were high calorie, I didn't really see the number. It didn't really register with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then they put the calories there. It's over 400 calories for this little slice of cake, which is not going to fill you up. And that visual, that number, calculating the percentage of that, of the number of calories that I'm supposed to eat per day and knowing what a high percentage was going to go to something that really didn't give me that much bang for my calorie buck really motivated me to change my behavior. I'm far from perfect when it comes to choosing the snacks, but I am more likely now to go for a protein box where it may not have the absolute lowest calories, but I know at least I'm going to get some nutrition for my choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it's the same way when it comes to money. When you really calculate the true cost as Grant points out, it helps.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number Twitter, do not get caught up in labels and trends to the point where you don't do what you want to do. Grant is managing New York City on his own terms, but he's honest. There are places that he could live where he would reach his financial goals faster and without having to watch his finances as tightly, but he is putting his life first.

Bobbi Rebell:
Never live your life backwards or for someone else's idea of what they think you should be doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you Grant. So happy for all he has achieved including his first book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. Go order it now. As an author, guys, I have to stress buying it on preorder really makes a difference at hitting the bestseller lists and all that comes with it. So if you like Grant and you think you're going to like the book, go right now and preorder it so you get it right when it comes out and you also help Grant a little bit in the process as they say.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to have a link for it in the show notes as well, and also meaningful you. Be in touch. BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter and our email address is hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Grant Sabatier for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Doug Boneparth  CFP®, author of The Millennial Money Fix,  got his entrepreneurial game on early in life when at just 15 he was selling Japanese Anime video’s on a new platform- eBay. While the business did not last, the lessons about supply and demand, as well as keeping track of the profits, provided the foundation for the entrepreneur he is today. 

In Doug’s money story you will learn:

-Why checks were arriving in the mail for the then 15-year old Doug Boneparth

-How Doug leveraged his passion for Japanese Anime into a thriving online business just as the internet was becoming a mainstream tool for commerce

-The skills Doug and his brother developed to grow the anime business, and other businesses they started

-How much money Doug made

In Doug’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Doug’s passion for his product drove sales

-How Doug has used the lessons from that teenage business to build his current CFP® practice

-How Doug continues to leverage the internet for business

-Why it is important to understand the legal ramifications of business decisions

-Where the profits from his business went!

In Doug’s money tip you will learn:

-How to make your commute more productive

-The financial and psychological benefits of investing in improving your time between home and work

 

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of tracking your business spending and costs, in addition to top line income

-How saving money in the wrong places can hurt both your business, and the quality of your personal life

-The specific, and very tough decision Bobbi made to increase her intentional work time, in order to improve the quality of her time with her family. 

 

Episode Links

Doug Boneparth’s Bona Fide Wealth Website: https://bonefidewealth.com/

Get Doug’s book The Millennial Money Fix

Follow Doug!

Twitter @dougboneparth

Instagram @Dougnotsofunny

Facebook Bonefidewealth

LinkedIn DouglasBoneparth

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
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Doug Boneparth:
I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?" Eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect as to what I was doing, as well. My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Certified Financial Planner and Author of The Millennial Money Fix, Doug Boneparth, was born to be an entrepreneur. He started building businesses in his teens. Doug was hesitant to share the story you're going to hear because, well, it was the early days of the internet. And let's just say the rules were still unclear. That aside, it is a great lesson in taking something you love, knowing the market, and then filling a demand by creating supply.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Certified Financial Planner, Doug Boneparth. Doug Boneparth, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Doug Boneparth:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite CFP friends, and also, by the way, congratulations on your still relatively new book, The Millennial Money Fix. We're going to talk more about that soon. But first, I want to get to your money story. It's a really good one. We've been talking about this.

Doug Boneparth:
It's a throwback.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a throwback to when you were 15 years old. Anime was a big thing. You learned about the markets with a little business venture. Tell us.

Doug Boneparth:
So self-admitted super dork here. In high school-

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Doug Boneparth:
I really kind of got into Japanese animation. I thought it was awesome, and one thing that I noticed was, it was becoming more and more popular in American culture. I think Cartoon Network had Toonami and it was something I just loved. I loved all these things, video games. Of course, Japanese animation. I was really good with computers. My brother and I were both really good with computers, and I always was able to find a way to surf the internet a little bit better than others. So I said, "Geez, if we could find a way to get some great shows, these anime shows and sell them, we could probably make some money."

Doug Boneparth:
I noticed the demand in this relatively new market in the US and I did just that. I found a number of series, back from like the '80s. I think CD burners were relatively new, and eBay was relatively new, so what did I have? I had a market, I had a way to distribute, I had a way to capture content, and I was in business, and the checks came in.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much were the checks, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
Each series, in the beginning, and what was really interesting is I watched the price of these series come down pretty dramatically over the course of like six months. But checks were 80 bucks, 70 bucks for a particular show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're how old again?

Doug Boneparth:
I was 15.

Bobbi Rebell:
15, okay.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, so here I was, thinking I had a really cool idea. I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, they didn't know what was going on?

Doug Boneparth:
Well, no. They really didn't. They knew like I was savvy with computers, and I was into these shows, but they let me. I was a good boy. They left me to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much money, Doug, was coming in exactly? How much? What was your haul here?

Doug Boneparth:
I think from beginning to end, I had to have cleared $10,000 in checks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, it's a lot of money for a 15 year old, and the worst part is, I have no idea what I did with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Doug Boneparth:
I know. I'm sure I spent it on like candy, and video games, and computer equipment, and again, real dorky stuff. But, yeah. It was cool and I felt like I was running this amazing enterprise, where I had really tapped into something that was becoming popular. But those checks eventually dwindled, and eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect to what I was doing, as well.

Doug Boneparth:
My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office, which was right outside his office. And that was the end of my borderline questionable anime sales and marketing job on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a talk that your parents had with you and your brother? By the way, so your brother's involved in this, too, I assume?

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, no. No, he remains innocent. I remember my dad pulling my brother aside and asking, "What is your brother doing?" I think my brother covered for me pretty good. He goes, "He's putting these shows on CDs, I think they're so old that nobody cared." And my dad kind of looked at him strangely and I think that was the end of him kind of sponsoring or being my mule to bring the series to the post office. Yeah, quasi unethical behavior perhaps at 15.

Doug Boneparth:
Hey, look. Kids are going to get in trouble and it's probably a good reminder to let those who are trying to become entrepreneurs early on, make sure what you're doing is completely legit, like the computer repair business. My brother and I were running, that seemed to be probably a little bit more above board. But it was a great learning lesson. It kind of fanned the flames of the entrepreneur in me and only led to greater success down the road.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was the early days of the internet, so the rules were not clear yet, to be clear in terms of you were a 15 year old kid. You certainly were not intentionally doing anything that was not above board.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, no. I thought it was extremely clever. I thought it was amazing that this could all be put together. And if I was smart enough to do it, then to the victor go the spoils. Now looking back at it, yeah, it maybe a little bit dicey.

Doug Boneparth:
But again, I kind of wear it with a badge of honor, and have more value from the lessons that I learned in doing it and in business, than really just about anything else. But, yeah. You got it. Probably walking a fine line there.

Bobbi Rebell:
From an entrepreneurial standpoint, from a money standpoint, what did you learn running this internet business at age 15? I mean, were there marketing [inaudible 00:06:37]? Because you did well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did really well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, I learned that if you can sell something that you're excited about and you're passionate about, it's almost like not working. And that's a really important lesson. And that holds true as an advisor. My friends don't want to hear how I love Monday. I do. I absolutely love what I do, in the same way that I loved what I was doing. I loved these shows, and the stories, and I thought that I was sharing them with other people in this new trend that was emerging. That was super cool. So that was lesson number one.

Doug Boneparth:
Two was really an economic lesson, and looking at something here that I saw the trend. I saw the demand. I had an ability to supply it. And sure enough, you put those two concepts together and you're in business. And then third, is the internet side of things. Again, this is kind of the dawn of the eCommerce. This is the beginning of the internet. I thank my parents for allowing my brother to get a broadband cable modem and to be able to do a lot of cool stuff out there.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think the lessons and the experience I had there followed through to even how I'm operating business today. A lot of the way that I market my firm is definitely on the internet side of things, so I was an early adopter. And those are my three big lessons from being an entrepreneur at the age of 15. Even if it was selling Japanese animation on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hate to ask you this, but the $10,000. You really have no idea where it went, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
All right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because I know people want to know.

Doug Boneparth:
Fourth lesson. Become financially literate and responsible, and I only ... This is where I'm haunted by, "What if I had bought some really cheap technology stocks back in the day?" Or something like that, I'd be swimming in it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
$10,000 at age 15, Doug. Where did it go?

Doug Boneparth:
You tell me. Where didn't it go? I always had a lot of fun, and I really liked video games, and computer, I probably just ... I'll tell you where it went. It went into computers, and hardware, and things like that. Again, you're having me admit just how big of a nerd I was.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's investing back in the business.

Doug Boneparth:
No, that was to play video games, and get like cool graphic cards, and buy video games, and stuff like that. No, it was-

Bobbi Rebell:
I was trying to help there you there, Doug.

Doug Boneparth:
No, no, no. I appreciate that, but there's no, really no helping me on that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your money tip. This is a good one. You struggled with this, but I think it's a really good one. Because so many people spend so much time on their way to and from work. Hopefully they're listening to podcasts like this one while they do it. But it's important to really prioritize this time and think about it as an asset. And you have a money tip to that end.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. When you're thinking about commuting, I think that you should pay for the things that free up your time. So for me, that's parking across the river in Jersey City, so there's a car that can get me to my daughter or home a lot faster. And therefore, I can be more productive with my time.

Doug Boneparth:
It's paying for things like your 4G internet, for your laptop, so if I do take the train or I'm not driving, I can work and be productive. The theme here is, I usually don't hesitate to spend money on things, like parking or internet, things that make me become more productive when I'm commuting. It's usually a good payoff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Sounds good. Let's talk a little bit about The Millennial Money Fix. This is a great book. It's very comprehensive, and yet to the point. Tell me more.

Doug Boneparth:
So there are a lot of personal finance books out there, and I hope that the stories are what differentiate one book from another. And this is A, 80% of what you should have learned about in personal finance, right here in like 200 pages. Extremely digestible, but B, it's a first-hand perspective of what it's like for two hardworking millennials to navigate their young adult and now more mature adult lives in a way that's relatable and practical.

Doug Boneparth:
We know what hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt looks like. We know what it's like to buy a home, and start a family, and have kids with that burden. And we know how hard you have to work to make these things happen. So we practice what we preach and we want to share our story. My wife, Heather, and I want to share our story with everyone, so they become financially educated, empowered, and go after their great things in life.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, of course, people look at you. You're a very successful Certified Financial Planner. You're all over the media, so prominent. But you have the same challenges that so many people do have.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. If you judge a book by its cover, you might say to yourself, "Well, there's nothing these two really need to worry about. They're doing really well for themselves." And that's false. I mean, yeah, we're doing really well-

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing well, but it's not all roses.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, exactly. Nothing's been handed to us and our debt was something that we took on ourselves through Heather's own decisions to go to law school-

Bobbi Rebell:
You went to graduate school, too.

Doug Boneparth:
I went to graduate school, too. But I willingly knew what the impact would be. She did not have that advantage, and that's actually a cool contrast that we provide in the book. What it's like to pay for an expensive education, knowing fully well what it means financially, as well as what it means to pay for that education, not being financially literate. And I think that's something a lot of young people are going through, the older millennials.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think it's an opportunity for younger millennials, and even Gen Z to use this as a cautionary tale. Know what it is that you're getting yourself into, and how to find that return on your investment, and set yourself up with lessons that you should be learning, but unfortunately, aren't offered to you. So we're going to provide-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And where can people find you?

Doug Boneparth:
People can find me so many places. So many places. BonafideWealth.com's website. You can follow me on Twitter @DougBoneparth. Facebook. Just Google Douglas Boneparth and take your pick.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, and YouTube especially. Check out his YouTube channel. It's awesome.

Doug Boneparth:
Especially for young financial advisors, that's for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right, Doug. You've been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Doug's teenage entrepreneurial venture. Financial Grownup tip number one. You guys may have noticed I didn't want to let Doug off the hook about his profits. It was $10,000, he was only 15, so we are going to give him a pass. But if you are bringing in cash, you need to have a system, any system. Whatever works for you. There's a lot we don't know about what was going on with Doug's business.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know if there was overhead, probably not. We don't know who was paying, for example, for his shipping costs. Probably his dad, so it was pure profit. So $10,000, he enjoyed it, he was 15, but if you want to be a Financial Grownup, figure out what's going on with your cash flow, and be more deliberate, and more intentional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Doug talked about spending money to make your commute and your life more productive. He focused on logistics, like parking, and having internet wherever he goes. And that is a great point. Spend money on productivity, so you can complete more work more efficiently. For example, this is something I've come to realize. I will sometimes cut my workday short to pick up my son from school. That can be as early as 2:30 in the afternoon some days. On a personal level, that's great.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes it's a mistake because it can cut hours off my workday, when I could simply pay a babysitter just to pick him up and get those hours back. Then I can be focused on my son when he is home because I have completed my work. Racing to get him and then ignoring him because I have to get work done is not a win for either of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. You can also get our newsletter there and find out how you can be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Doug's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Leanna Haakons trusted a friend to sell her car so she could use the proceeds for tuition. But when she handed over the keys, he hit the road leaving her without the cash to pay for school. 

In Leanna’s money story you will learn:

-How Leanna planned to finance her college

-The two mistakes she made that destroyed those plans

-How she paid for college even though she did not recover the money she lost

-The role her dad played in the story

-The psychological impact of a financial betrayal on Leanna

-What happened years later when she finally confronted the person who stole her money

In Leanna’s money lesson you will learn:

-Be aware of the ways people can take advantage of you and your money

-Her warning about cybersecurity, identity theft and financial infidelity in relationships

-How to research a broker or financial advisor

-The importance of a paper trail

In Leanna’s Money tip you will learn:

-The link between healthy eating and building wealth

-Leanna’s healthy body healthy wallet theory

-Her top 12 dirtiest produce items

-When to buy organic even if it costs more

-Cooking techniques that will kill pesticides

-Apps she recommends to eat healthier

In my take you will learn:

-Specific ways to create a paper trail so you don't get caught in a bind like Leanna

-How to buy food based on the season

Episode links:

Get Leanna Haakons book Young Fun and Financially Free!!

 

Follow Leanna!

Twitter @Leannablackhawk

Instagram @leanna_hawk

website youngfunfree.com

website blackhawkfinancial.ca

 

Do your homework on brokers

FINRA/brokercheck

Places to get contracts

Legal Zoom

Nolo

Rocket Lawyer

 

Leanna recommended  the Flipp app for finding organic produce on sale

 

seasonal fruit guide from The Balance https://www.thebalance.com/the-cheapest-fruits-and-vegetables-month-by-month-1388345

 

To apply to be a guest on the show for our new once a month listener episode email us your

-money story

-money lesson

-everyday money tip

 

to info@financialgrownup.com

And we’ll be in touch if you are chosen!!

---

Transcription

Leanna Haakons:
It hurt. It hurt from the money side of it, and I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights, and I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But, you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to today's guest, I am really excited about an announcement that we are going to be making at the end of the podcast about something new that we're going to be doing here at Financial Grownup. I'm going to fill you in after Leanna Haakons' story. Stay tuned until the end. But let's talk about Leanna. She is the author of Young, Fun, and Financially Free, and a financial marketing expert. You see her all over the media. She had a great plan to buy a car, and then sell it in time to use the proceeds for tuition, but she learned a terrible lesson when a trusted friend betrayed her. Here is Leanna Haakons. Leanna Haakons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to have you, first of all I love your book Young, Fun and Financially Free. You're also not just an author, you are also a financial marketing expert. You have a lot of wisdom to share with us.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of that wisdom has to do with a story, the car, your first year of college, and thinking things were going to go one way, and then there was a surprise and not so pleasant ending. Tell us what happened.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I call this story my school of hard knocks story. My first year of college was a lot of learning about finance, and doing that whole traditional [inaudible 00:02:14] going through school. But it was also a school and year of hard knocks in the financial, the personal financial, world. I had gone to my first year of college in Toronto, and come back to the West coast, to Vancouver, where I grew up. I needed a car for the summer. I was working at a gym, and I needed to open up the gym at 5:30 in the morning. That was before public transit was running. I needed a car to get to the gym really early in the morning. I had been working four different jobs throughout the school year to be able to save up money so I could get my first car, which was this little blue convertible with white leather interior, it was so cute, it was awesome. I was just so excited to get this car.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had a plan for the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yes, I had this whole plan. I worked super hard during the school year, I saved up the money, and I had this friend of mine that I'd known throughout high school for years, and he's sort of a brother to me. He had said "Well, if you save up the money, I'll buy the car for you in cash, and then you can use it throughout the summer while you're working, and at the end of the summer I'll sell the car for you, because I have this car dealership, and get the money back for you and give it to you, so you can use the money to pay for your school when you go back to Toronto in September, when you go back to school again." I said "That sounds like a great plan, because I need the money for school expenses." I thought it would all work out great. Sounded perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically renting the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, well, effectively that was the plan was supposed to be. All did not go according to plan. I ended up giving him the keys at the end of the summer, after I'd used the car. I thought it was the perfect plan. It didn't end up working out that way. This led to a series of events where I had to learn-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, what happened? What happened? You handed back the key and he did not hand you the money, it's what I'm assuming.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I gave him the keys back to the car and he vanished. I never heard from him again. After-

Bobbi Rebell:
The car vanished too?

Leanna Haakons:
Of course, yeah. It had been about six or sevens weeks, and tuition was due, expenses were due, of course I was renting the apartment, the bills were coming in, I was freaking out. I ended up having to get a line of credit from the bank. I had to ask my dad to cosign for it. Some hard lessons were learned there. My dad was a big believer in not immediately bailing me out, which he could've done, but he wanted me to learn the hard lesson that you don't just give up your assets to people without having a paper trail. I had thought this person was a trusted friend of mine. I'd known him for many years. I thought he was someone that I could trust. You know what? You just don't give your keys and your assets to someone without having a paper trail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do the paperwork. Do you know even now, years later, whatever happened to him?

Leanna Haakons:
Well, this is another story.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a backstory? Did he owe people a lot of money? Was he in trouble? Did he have some reason even if we don't like it? At least something happened why he did this to you?

Leanna Haakons:
Along the way, probably about eight months after the fact, he did end up giving me some excuses, lies of excuses, very, very horrible excuses thus to why. He didn't give me the money, and apparently things had happened in his family, [inaudible 00:05:25] people had passed away that were in his life, family members and whatnot, which I found out years later they were still alive. It was a total con. This person knew immediately what they were doing. I ended up finding out from the insurance company that the car was transferred to someone else the week that I had given him the keys to the car, gifted to someone else with the value of zero dollars with the same last name as him. He knew what he was doing right off [crosstalk 00:05:47]-

Bobbi Rebell:
It was deliberate.

Leanna Haakons:
It was deliberate, 100%. I found that out eventually, and I did run into him actually about three years ago or so, maybe about 10 years later. That was a showdown. I'll tell you that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
I won't give you the details, but it wasn't pretty.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a little detail, now that you said that.

Leanna Haakons:
It didn't get physical, I'm not that kind of girl, but it was ugly that's for sure. But, I never got any of the money back. But it was definitely a ... it was a hard lesson for sure. I think $10,000 was around the amount that it was. When you're that young, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of hard work to save up that kind of money. It hurt, it hurt from the money side of it. I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights. I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me. Especially when I found out months after the fact that the car had been signed over to someone else. I knew it was deliberate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me, what is the lesson for our listeners?

Leanna Haakons:
There are so many ways that people can be taken advantage of, or at risk with your money, whether it's with your investment dealings, whether it's cybersecurity, identify theft, financial infidelity in relationships. There are so many ways that people need to be careful with their financial dealings. That can be within families and friendships as well as I experienced, how that all gets intertwined. There's lots of different things that you can do to protect yourself. I mentioned some of those things in my book, Young, Fun and Financially Free.

Leanna Haakons:
There's also things like FINRA's BrokerCheck. Whenever you're going to go into a new investment dealing, you're looking to working with a new financial advisor, you should go on to something called BrokerCheck, which is a FINRA program, and you can look to see whether that investment advisor has had any marks on their record, and see if there's anything on there that you should be aware of. Because you need to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings. The moral of my financial grownup story is don't ever give away your assets to anyone without having a paper trail, and that you really need to keep really good records of your own transfers, payments and passwords. You have to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings.

Bobbi Rebell:
On a lighter note, you brought a great money tip. But also an important thing that people do spend a lot of money on, and sometimes it's not necessary, you call it I think the dirty dozen?

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I'm a really big advocate as well that sound money decisions start with putting healthy food into your body, and making, I call it a healthy body healthy wallet decision. Spending consciously and something that they call in the healthy food world, the organic world, is their dirty dozen. There's sort of the top 12 dirtiest produce items that you purchase. If you want to be buying organic, and buying healthy food, and putting healthy food into your body, there are sort of the top 12 things that are most important to buy organic. If something like that is a priority to you, then you should be spending consciously on those items. A great way to do that is to download an app like one called Flipp, F-L-I-P-P.

Leanna Haakons:
You can download an app like Flipp and you can browse different grocery stores, supermarkets in your area and see what's on sale. Buy consciously. Make buying healthy organic food a priority, but do it smartly. Shop at a couple different stores in your area, do your research, and look at what's on sale at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's or the stores in your area. Find the things that are on sale, and beware of the things like the dirty dozen fruits and vegetable that should be bought organic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are those? Give us some examples of them.

Leanna Haakons:
Things like apples, carrots, things that you buy that you eat peel of mostly, those are the ones that have the pesticides, they're all covered in pesticides, those things you want to buy organic. Apples are always at the top of the list. Things like bananas that you take the peel off of, you don't really have to worry about as much, but you'll also notice that bananas in the stores as well, those are pretty cheap to buy organic, so you don't really have to worry about those as much. Anything that you are also cooking that you boil or something like that as well, you don't have to worry about as much because the boiling effect usually kills a lot of the pesticides. But, you can find that list anywhere, if you just google the dirty dozen, you'll be able to find that list anywhere. Then an app like Flipp can help you find organic produce, or organic meats and natural food items as well. Finding an app like that is really helpful to be able to get organic food on sale.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk quickly about your book, Young, Fun, and Financially Free. Thank you so much by the way, you sent me not one, but two copies, because we're going to give one away to a listener. You have to tag this episode in a post on Twitter and tag both me, I'm on Twitter @bobbirebell, and what's your Twitter handle?

Leanna Haakons:
Mine is @leannablackhawk.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tag us both and we will pick someone within a week of the episode dropping, and we will send one of you a copy of her book. Tell me more about the book.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. The book is a really easy read. It takes about five hours to get through, so you can do it all on a weekend. It's a nice cover-to-cover read, sort of the money 101 on anything from spending, saving, investing, insurance, just sort of an adult [inaudible 00:11:18] book 101.

Bobbi Rebell:
We need books like that.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. You know what? When I was young and I got my first job in finance was in the stock market doing investor relations when I was 18. I was really into this stuff naturally. I started trading in individual stocks when I was 18.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I really love this stuff. But you know what? Even for me, a lot of the books that I picked up, I wanted to be reading them, but even I wasn't getting through them cover to cover. I wanted to write something that people, that even if they weren't interested in this stuff naturally could read it cover to cover, get a few [inaudible 00:11:53] out of it, there's some funny money quotes in it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there's some very fun quotes in [crosstalk 00:11:58].

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I just wanted it to be light, and something that people could actually enjoy reading whether they're interested in this stuff or not, they can enjoy it, and it doesn't have to be something that they struggle to read, whether their parents or their friends are kind of forcing them, or asking them to read it or not. It's actually something enjoyable read.

Bobbi Rebell:
I enjoyed it, and I enjoy this conversation with you. Thank you for being my guest. Where can people follow you on social media?

Leanna Haakons:
I am on Twitter, @leannablackhawk, or Instagram, leanna_hawk, they can also find me on my website youngfunfree.com or at blackhawkfinancial.ca.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi, loved the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
This story really broke my heart, because we can't through life not trusting anyone. This was someone Leanna had known for a very long time, this was someone that was part of her community. Financial Grownup tip number one, unless you are willing and financially able to part with your money, get it in writing. There are plenty of places like LegalZoom, Nolo, and Rocket Lawyer, I'll leave the links in the show notes, where you can download forms and create simple legal documents for things like selling a car, or other assets. By the way, I don't have any affiliation with any of these companies, but those are some names that you can look at, they may be a good place to start and see if they are the right fit for your needs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Leanna talked about knowing where to spend your money on organic vegetables and fruits. I would add that you should also be thinking about what is in season and what is grown locally because it is in season. Because when something is not in seasons, they often source it from far away places around the world, because these days most of us can get any fruit or vegetable that we want any time of the year, because of being able to basically, as I said, source it from around the world. That doesn't mean that we should, the best deals and the quality often happens when we keep it simple and eat the foods that nature wants us to eat right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
In April, here are some names, ready? Artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, lettuce, mushrooms, pineapples, radishes, rhubarb, and spring peas. I'm going to leave a link to a calendar and the article from the balance that I grabbed those names from in the show notes, it also has every month of the year so you can go through that article from the balance and look up what fruits and vegetables are best for what month of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now the time for the big announcement. We have been hearing from a lot of you wanting to share your Financial Grownup stories, your lessons, and of course creative money tips. We're going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, we're going to keep it simple, see how it goes, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. I'm so excited to hear from you guys and bring all of you our first listener guest.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is the Leanna Haakons episode of Financial Grownup. Subscribe if you have not already. Help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show and sign up for a mailing list, so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Leanna's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams. 

 

In Paula’s money story you will learn:

-How Paula saved money to travel on a $21,000 salary

-Paula’s strategies to travel on a budget- even when it is not budget travel

-Her side hustles that helped boost her incomes

-The behavioral games she would play to incentivize herself for saving money

-Paula’s strategy to avoid having to delay gratification

-Her specific ‘games’ to make saving fun and rewarding

-Her strategy to travel to places where the cost of living is lower to stick to a $1,000 a month budget. 

In Paula’s lesson you will learn

-How to have a more authentic experience when you travel.

-How to balance saving money with your travel interests

In Paula’s money tip you will learn:

-How to “gamify” saving money

-How to avoid feeling deprived when saving money

-the importance maxing out every retirement account

-How to buy individual stocks without a fee

-How to divert money from your bank account into savings automatically

-How to use Acorns to round up savings when you buy things. 

In my take you will learn:

-Specific resources to "gamify" your finances

-Specific resources to improve your travel experience

EPISODE LINKS

Robinhood

Acorns

Digit

SmartyPig

Qapital

The Points Guy

Scott’s Cheap Flights

Hotel Tonight

Paula’s podcast Afford Anything

Paula’s website Afford Anything

Follow Paula!

Twitter @affordanything

Instagram @paulapant

Facebook Afford Anything

The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn strategies to travel on a budget and how you can balance saving money with your travel interests. #Travel #TravelTips

---

Transcription

Paula Pant:
Never delay gratification. I hate the concept of delayed gratification, because if you get into this mindset of, "Oh, my life is going to suck now so that it can be better later," well, later is just going to be disappointing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, let's talk about travel and seeing the world. Authentic travel within a budget, which is not the same as budget travel. One of the top reasons people want to have financial resources is to travel, and that is something a young Paula Pant, the force behind the Afford Anything website and podcast, wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rather than do it through her school, she decided to explore the world on her own terms and her own budget. Her plan, make it a game. Here is Paula Pant. Paula Pant, you are a financial grownup. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

Paula Pant:
I am excited to be here, and I don't think I've ever been called a grownup before.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very much a grownup. Oh my gosh, you have a website and a podcast called Afford Anything, which is sort of everyone's financial fantasy, because we all wish we could afford anything. But as you say, not necessarily all at the same time, right?

Paula Pant:
Exactly. You can afford anything, but not everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best tagline, I love it. All right, so you brought with you a story that has to do with your love of travel, which makes total sense to me, because I love following your Instagram and all of your fantastic photos of you on all of your various adventures, but you didn't always have the money to fund those adventures.

Paula Pant:
That is totally true. Travel has always been a passion of mine. When I was in college, I really wanted to study abroad, but those programs were prohibitively expensive, like 15 to 20 grand for a single semester. I thought about it and I realized, "I don't really want to study, I just want to go abroad."

Paula Pant:
I realized that if I graduated, I worked, I saved up some money, and then I just went off on my own, if I DIY'd it, so to speak, I could do it for like a much cheaper price tag.

Bobbi Rebell:
Without the university as a middleman, basically.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. So that's exactly what I did. I graduated, I started working. Like you, I was a journalist. I became an entry level newspaper reporter at a very small paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where?

Paula Pant:
In Boulder, Colorado. The paper was called the Colorado Daily. It was owned by E.W. Scripps, so it was a part of the Scripps family, but it was the smallest paper, I think, in the Scripps family, and we had a circulation of 40,000. My salary, my starting salary, was $21,000 and this was in 2005.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch.

Paula Pant:
So adjusted for inflation, that's like still pretty close to 21,000. I think I did the inflation adjustment, and that's $26,000 per year in today's dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, we actually have not had that much inflation is the truth of it.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, exactly. Between 2005 and now-

Bobbi Rebell:
The last few years, we really didn't. Thank you, Fed. That's changing, but anyway.

Paula Pant:
So yeah, so I made a starting salary of 21,000 in 2005, and then in 2008, which was when I quit that job, I was earning 31,000 at the time, so that was the highest amount that I made during that three year period, and yet during those three years, I, because I was so interested in traveling, I was saving money as much as I could. In order to do that, I did a couple of things. Number one, was I had a side hustle, and I saved all of the money that came in from that side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the side hustle?

Paula Pant:
Freelance writing. I freelance wrote for both websites and magazines.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they allowed you to do that? That's nice.

Paula Pant:
Oh yeah, yeah. There was no restriction.

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice.

Paula Pant:
My paper had no restriction against me taking on any outside work. I think they probably knew that we all had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I guess they got away with paying you so little because they knew that.

Paula Pant:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, so okay. So you saved a lot from the side hustle, but still. What else did you do?

Paula Pant:
Because so much of finance is behavioral, so much of it is psychological, I would find ways to spend just a little bit less than I otherwise would. For example, I would go to the grocery store and I'd walk around the store, and I'd fill the cart with whatever was on my list, and then at that last moment before going to the checkout aisle, I would take a look at my cart, and I would find two or three things to put back.

Paula Pant:
Orange juice, for example, you know? Because we don't need, quote unquote, "need," orange juice. You can have water and fresh fruit. Or like potato chips, or Oreo cookies, or whatever. I would pick a couple of things, I'd put them back, and then I would figure out how much money I had shaved off my grocery bill by virtue of doing so, and I would literally pull that money out of my wallet and stick it into an envelope that I kept in the glove compartment of my car.

Bobbi Rebell:
Brilliant, I love it.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, so just little things like that forced me to save money, and it kind of turned it into a game a little bit. If you think about a big goal like saving $25,000, that can seem daunting. But if you think about, "All right, I'm at the grocery store. How can I shave 10 bucks off of this trip?" and you do that consistently over time, A, it's fun, because it's a little bit of a game. It's a bit of almost like a detective ... not a detective, sleuth thing, that's not exactly the right analogy, but you know what I mean. It's like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, it's a kind of challenge.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much did you save in those years, if you have kind of an estimate of how much you saved doing those kinds of things, and give us some travel highlights, where you went.

Paula Pant:
In total during those three years, I saved $25,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
On a salary of 31,000 at most.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. And again, I'll emphasize that I was freelancing during the evenings and weekends, and everything that I made from freelancing after taxes went into my travel savings, so that was where the bulk of those savings came from.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where did you travel?

Paula Pant:
I flew at first to Egypt, and I spent six weeks in Egypt. From there to Israel, and then from there I went to Southeast Asia where the dollar exchange rate really worked in my favor. Hanging out in places like Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, places that just have a much lower cost of living, and where the U.S. dollar goes a lot further. That was a big part of how I was able to travel.

Paula Pant:
During that time, I lived on a budget of $1,000 a month, which again, if you're traveling slowly, like if you're not moving around very often, so you're saving money on transit costs, and you're eating local food, you're not going to restaurants, like you're eating street cart food, or things like that, and you're not drinking much alcohol, if any, that's how you can really make your money stretch quite a ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? I mean, obviously we want to be traveling kind of like locals, I guess, is live like locals, don't just stick to the resorts and the resort food, and the hotels and all that stuff, right?

Paula Pant:
Yeah, exactly. Have a more authentic experience. If you're going to go to all of the trouble of going all the way out to Myanmar, then why would you stay at a four star hotel, if instead you could have a very authentic conversation with somebody there who has just a roadside, street side little ... I can't even call it a café, that's too fancy of a word. Just a little tin ... you know, a couple of pieces of corrugated tin under which they have a little stove through which they can cook you some food.

Paula Pant:
It's a much more real experience. It's just much more authentic, and the fact that it saves money is I think, also a bonus. But don't do everything for the sake of saving money, do it because it gives you an authentic experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something that people can put to work right away. Maybe let's stick to the gamification theme, because that's fun. I like playing money games, because you don't even feel bad when you're saving money. It actually makes you feel good, like you're winning.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. A big part of my philosophy is never delay gratification. I hate the concept of delayed gratification, because if you get into this mindset of, "Oh, my life is going to suck now so that it can be better later," well, later is just going to be disappointing.

Paula Pant:
I'm a big fan of when you're saving money, gamify it, have fun with it. When I tell the story of going to a grocery store, and then right before checkout putting the orange juice back, that was not an act of deprivation, that was a fun challenge, like it was a game that allowed me to save. You could think of it as like scoring points on the leaderboard.

Paula Pant:
I continue to do the same thing today. I want to put as much money into investments today as I possibly can. My core investing strategy is of course, max out every retirement account that I'm eligible to contribute to. Those are like my core strategies, and through those, I put money in an index funds. On top of that, I have this app, it's called Robinhood, that allows you to buy individual stocks fee free.

Paula Pant:
Through Robinhood, I will put extra money into individual stock picking. Now, this is not my core investment strategy whatsoever. This is just extra money. It's money I otherwise would have spent on beer and shoes that instead, I kind of think of making it an in-app purchase in a game. I'm playing this game, and if my budget to play this game is $100 a month, that's the cost of like maybe a fun night out.

Paula Pant:
So for me, instead of having that quote unquote, "Fun night out on the town," I put that money into a game that I'm playing on my phone, and I'm buying some individual stocks that I think are kind of fun. Well, that's a way to put more money into investments than I otherwise would. So that's my money tip, is gamify it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there other apps that you like to incorporate that are also kind of on the game theme?

Paula Pant:
Sure, yeah. There's an app called Digit, and that's more of an automated system, so you link it up to your bank account, and it will divert really small sums of money, like three bucks here, four bucks there, into a separate account that then accumulates into a pretty substantial amount of savings over time. That's kind of a fun little automated, gamey sort of way to save more, to hide some savings from yourself.

Paula Pant:
There's another one called Acorns that rounds up every purchase that you make, so if you buy something for $7.36, it will round that up to eight bucks, and put the change into a separate account. It's like another way to gamify it a little bit. Any way that you can take care of the margins in a way that's fun, it's a way to make compounding work in your favor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, great. Paula Pant, you are so much fun. Where can people find out more about you, and follow you, and of course, hear more about your podcast Afford Anything?

Paula Pant:
Sure, well as you mentioned, the podcast is called Afford Anything, and you can find it wherever finer podcasts are sold. So yeah, just head to your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, or Overcast, or Stitcher, and just search for the Afford Anything podcast. Then you can also find me on the web at affordanything.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social media handles?

Paula Pant:
Oh, on Twitter I am @AffordAnything. On Facebook I am Afford Anything, and on Instagram I've broken the pattern. Instagram I'm @PaulaPant, so that's P-A-U-L-A P-A-N-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Putting yourself out there, Paula Pant. Thank you so much. You're so wonderful, and thank you for coming on.

Paula Pant:
Oh, thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you take out of your grocery cart to save a little money? I know I have a bad habit of throwing extra things into the cart that I was not originally planning on buying, except unlike Paula, I usually don't take them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's do Financial Grownup tip number one, listen to Paula. Gamification of good money habits works. Money is psychological, and little wins can inspire us to keep going when we get that positive reinforcement. You can go totally retro and just put your spare change in a jar and watch it add up, or you can use apps like Paula mentioned, including Acorns, Digit, and Robinhood.

Bobbi Rebell:
Other names to help you save and feel like you're playing a game and reward good money habits include Qapital, that's with a Q, Qapital. You get rewarded for things like working out. SmartyPig, which helps you set up little piggy banks for different things. By the way, just so you guys know, I have no financial affiliation at this time with any of those names, and I will always let you know if I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be strategic with your travel, and do what's right for you. I am not a big fan of street food the way that Paula is, and I don't want everyone to feel like they have to travel quite that lean, but if you do want to go the higher end route, put the time in to looking into what the right resources are before you put your money in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the Points Guy blog, for example. There are great travel deals, and ideas, and even things at the higher end to help you save money. Another website for deals is Scott's Cheap Flights. If you are willing to wait close to your trip, or in some cases, and I've done this, when you're already on your trip, I've had some great experiences with the app Hotel Tonight. I also think there is great value in literally asking friends, and neighbors, and even virtual friends in Facebook groups that have something in common with you, for their recommendations. Happy travels.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast and all that good stuff, and thank you in advance to any of you who will now take the time to review it on iTunes or Apple Podcasts, as it is now known.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear from you guys. Follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Leave me comments as well. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter, so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show. Paula's story has inspired me to start traveling more, so maybe send me some suggestions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I go? Not just for business. If she's inspired you, let me know that as well. Where are you guys traveling? I hope you got some great takeaways from Paula. I certainly did, as you heard, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. 

In Stefanie’s story you will learn:

-The challenges of her seven years as a professional actress

-How the recession left her unemployed half way around the world

-The harsh financial realities of the entertainment business

-The creative ways Stefanie handled her finances, including roommates, while she traveled as an actress

-Her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want

-Why she pivoted to become a personal finance expert

-The tools she uses to manager her own money

-How to build a lifestyle you love while still following your passion

-The two big fairytales she says millennials need to get over

-Her take on how the financial challenges millennials face are different from previous generations

In Stefanie’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to own your income potential

-Ways to build your skill sets and find new market opportunities

-How to maximize income growth

-How to transition your passion skill set into one that is also profitable

 

In Stefanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her online shopping strategy

-How she uses online cash back portals like ebates

-The savings you can get from browser extensions like Honey that automatically search for coupons and promo codes

-Ways to stack your savings using cash back credit cards

In my take you will learn:

-Why I believe passions should usually not be connected to income

-The benefits of taking the pressure off earning money from your passion

-The danger of having unrealistic expectations from side hustles

-Strategies to own your future by going beyond your credentials like academic accomplishments

 

Episode links:

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Ebates

Honey

 

You can find Stefanie at:

Stefanie O’Connell.com

Get Stefanie’s free Cash Confidence challenge  

Sign up for Stefanie’s All In DIY class!

Stefanie’s facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/661192974055824/

Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life

Instagram @stefanieoconnell

Twitter @stefanieoconnell

Facebook: Stefanie OConnell

Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn about Stefanie's challenges of her seven years as a professional actress, her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want, and how to maximize income growth. #Income #LifeLessons #Author

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Transcription

Stefanie OC:
The reality hit me that this pursuit of my "passion" that everyone says, that isn't always the case because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be Financial Grown Up. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. How many of you have been told, "Follow your dreams. The money will come. Just trust in yourself?" In most cases, you were lied to. Former struggling actress turned millennial finance expert Stefanie O'Connell is here to set you straight. She is also the author of The Broke and The Beautiful book, and she also has a thriving community over at her website, stefanieoconnell.com. I love her story because it will put you on a path to prosperity and, hopefully, more happiness doing what you really are passionate about when you're not earning money. Here is Stefanie O'Connell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie O'Connell, author of The Broke and Beautiful Life and millennial money expert, you're a financial grown up and welcome to the program.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to congratulate you on your new venture, All In. Tell us about it.

Stefanie OC:
Oh, it is a course specifically designed for millennial women who want to feel as confident with their money, as they do in the rest of their lives. I know too many women who are really successful in their careers, really successful in their personal relationships, and all these different facets of their lifestyle, but when it comes to their money, they feel really out of control, so I built this 10-module step-by-step blueprint to help those ambitious women match their cash competence with their lifestyle ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect, and we will put a link to where you can find that more in the show notes. I want to get right to your story because it's so relatable and it's something that is so relevant to young people figuring out where they want to put their energy and where they want to earn their money. Tell us your money story, Ms. Stefanie.

Stefanie OC:
Okay. I'm going to try to keep it concise here. It's been a bit of a journey. But, essentially, it started in college when I decided I was going to pursue acting professionally. Now, I did get a degree in psychology as well as like backup plan, my responsible, quote unquote backup plan, but the plan was to be a professional actress and, believe it or not, I was. I actually was for seven years a professional actress, but it was extremely difficult, primarily because I worked in theater, not film, so the paydays are not the same.

Stefanie OC:
I also graduated in 2008, which was the year of the recession. So even though I got a great job right out of school on like a dream tour of Asia, understudying one of my professional musical theater idols, the producers flew out about halfway through the tour, and there were, like, "Oh, you know, there was a global recession. We're going to send you all home." [inaudible 00:03:22]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like that?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah just like that, so my bubble just got-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you basically got laid off in the middle of the world, in the middle of nowhere.

Stefanie OC:
As a actress, which is the most ... it's the first thing to go, right? Entertainment budget, especially for something like live theater that's really expensive is the first thing people cut out. So the industry was really in bad shape and the first job offer I got after was to play three leading roles in three musicals for $225 a week. And I was like, "Okay, that is not sustainable. Yeah. This is my profession it is how I support myself." So I had to turn it down. And for the next five or six years after that I kept coming up against this reality of okay, I'm doing what I love, but it's not paying the bills. It's not sustainable, it's not consistent, when I do get work it's a huge win if I'm making $500 a week, I live in New York city. That is not enough money to sustain even a very basic lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, how were you living? Did you have roommates? What was going on there?

Stefanie OC:
Oh yeah. So I've always had roommates. I've never not had roommates, so I'm 31 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Including now.

Stefanie OC:
Including now. I live my boyfriend now, so it's a little different.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good kind of roommate.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah it's a better kind of roommate situation. And then I also sublet my apartment a lot. So one of the things about being an actor is I was on the road a lot, so I was able to sublet my apartment so I didn't have the expense of rent which was a savior for me. And so even if I wasn't making a ton of money, maybe two, three hundred dollars a week, if I didn't have a $1500 a month cost of rent that made it a lot more sustainable to pursue it. That said, I would come home at the end of my contracts and still need to pay rent.

Stefanie OC:
So it just didn't work. The numbers didn't add up. And so what happened for me was there was just this huge sense of frustration and the reality hit me that this pursuit of my passion, quote unquote, that everyone says if you do that everything will work itself out, just that isn't always the case when it comes to your money. Because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living. There are other goals you have, there are the trips you want to take, there are the weddings you want to have, there are the children and family you want to start, there's the house you want to buy. And that costs money. And I had this realization that if I continued doing what I was doing I was never going to create enough capital through acting, through this pursuit of my passion to do all these things that I cared about in the rest of my life.

Stefanie OC:
And so I really started digging into personal finance because I wanted to understand, okay, how do I take the little money I have and maximize it and then step two, how do I bring more in? So that I have more to maximize and that really set me on this journey of personal transformation to owning my own cash confidence, as I like to call it, through tracking my spending, through earning more, through learning to invest, through saving and tracking that all on my blog at stefanieoconnell.com and then finding a community of other people in similar situations, millennials working through the recession who were really taught do what they love and are facing this reality of, well what if that doesn't pay the bills? And how do I still build a lifestyle I love, even if it's not necessarily the way I thought it was going to look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you and lot of millennials were sold this fairytale that if you follow your passion the money will come?

Stefanie OC:
Absolutely. I think there are two big fairytales. That one and then the second one is if you get a college degree you're set for life. Because I think you know, for my parents for example, they graduated college, they did get their MBAs, but from there it was smooth sailing right from graduation to retirement. There was great salaries, there were income increases, there was healthcare, there was retirement benefits. I've never had any of those things. I've never had employer sponsored health care, I've never had a 401K plan. So it's so much more, even if you're not necessarily pursuing your passion, even if you're just trying to make a living, for so many young people today there isn't that inbuilt infrastructure that takes your hand and paves the way for you from graduation to retirement.

Stefanie OC:
So much of the onus now is on the individual, and that's why I really started writing about this stuff, because I found that so much of the personal space was like, "Contribute to your 401K." And meanwhile, I'm surrounded by people who've never even had the opportunity to have access to a 401K. So that's why I write about what I write about.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right so you are 31 years old now. What is the lesson from that journey, for our listeners?

Stefanie OC:
Yeah, so for me the biggest lesson is that you are the primary driver of your own income potential. I think we have this idea that our degree or our experience or our skills or our lack of any of those things is what dictates what opportunities are available to us, but the reality is it's us. It's our willingness to continue putting ourselves out there, building our skillsets, finding new market opportunities and really putting ourselves in the drivers seat of our own earning potential that really leads to maximal income growth. And I think that it's so important because we too often make excuses for ourselves for why a six figure salary is not available to us or why a one million dollar net worth is not available to us.

Stefanie OC:
And we have to [inaudible 00:09:04] ownership of those things, before we can start making progress to actually achieving them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it may not be in the glam career that you envision, that may be a side thing.

Stefanie OC:
Yeah. And the other thing is I think there's this all or nothing mentality that's really destructive. I'm not professionally acting anymore, but I love what I do. And one of the big things I do is I give talks, I go on camera a lot, I do a lot of media appearances and I feel like I get to use that skillset from acting that I so enjoyed [inaudible 00:09:36] performance all the time, but now I get paid ten, 20, 30 times what I used to make. But the fact is I would have never found this outlet if I had never pivoted temporarily to something a little less glamorous like freelance writing and blogging about money. Right?

Stefanie OC:
So we have to remember that it's not like you're abandoning this thing forever, it's just about trying a new approach so that you can have a lifestyle you love and not just a career you love.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something specific and actionable that everyone can do right now.

Stefanie OC:
Okay, so this one is a little bit more simple, a really quick win that you [crosstalk 00:10:15]-

Bobbi Rebell:
We love simple.

Stefanie OC:
Can start with right now.

Stefanie OC:
There's a lot of shopping online, I personally do most of my shopping online because anytime I walk into a retail environment it's a 20 minute wait, it drives me crazy. So one of the ways I save, I have different ways of doing my shopping. So I will sometimes go through an online cash back portal, like an Ebates, where if you go through their portal first and then select the retailer you can get one or two or three or four percent cashback on all of your purchases. And then also downloading a browser extension like Honey that automatically searches for coupons and promo codes for you. And applies them to your order without you even having to go open up 20 tabs and search for promo codes.

Stefanie OC:
And then you can stack your savings even further by using a cash back credit card. So you know, get one percent or [inaudible 00:11:10] percent cash back on all purchases on your credit card, plus the promo code, plus the cash back from shopping through something like Ebates, you're really stacking your savings for immediate wins on all your purchases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice, Stefanie O'Connell, millennial money expert, thank you so much.

Stefanie OC:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends, here is my take on what Stefanie had to say. Financial grown up tip number one, detach your passion from your income. We all spend a lot of time at our paying jobs and businesses so obviously you don't want to pick something that you don't like and you can't stand. You want to be happy, you're putting a lot of time in there, but that may not be your passion. Focus on earning the income you need to be happy in life and maybe pursue that passion on the side. It could be a side hustle, it could just be a hobby. Take the pressure off trying to earn a living at your passion. You may actually find yourself enjoying it more without the pressure to create income from that passion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, don't sit on your laurels just because you got a college degree. It matters a lot, but for the most part after your first job it's going to come down to you and how hard and how smart you work. As Stefanie said so well, you have to have ownership of your own future. Don't just show up at your job, really show up. Be present, try hard, do extra things that are beyond the exact job duties. Impress your boss, learn new skills. A degree is only one piece of the puzzle, you have to fill in the rest by earning it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right thank you all for your support of the podcast, I love hearing your feedback and I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. Please also follow me on social media. I'm @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and of course, go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Stefanie O'Connell's story and her advice. I think she's terrific. Check out her website, as I said, stefanieoconnell.com, and I hope we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.