Brian Portnoy:
When Skillcrush founder and CEO Adda Birnir got laid off from her job at a digital ad agency, she decided to follow the money and discovered a lucrative business she did not even know existed. Her ability to leverage events like South by Southwest and understand how to make tech education appeal to women have driven the phenomenal growth of her startup.
In Adda’s money story you will learn:
-The big “aha” moment she had after being laid off, and seeing that the tech jobs were a lot more secure
-How a side project called Digital Divas, evolved into Skillcrush
-How a chance meeting led to a pivotal business partnership
-How Adda validated the Skillcrush concept
-The key risks and challenges in the early days of Skillcrush
-How they grew the company after a big test at South By Southwest
-The role that an incubator, and those resources played in the success of Skillcrush
-How they raised money from investors
In Adda’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of listening to your potential customers and their problem- before trying to sell a solution
-How to find the best way to appeal to potential customers
-The way Skillcrush overcomes stereotypes about women and coding
In Adda’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How Adda and her business partner set up a system to make sure to fund the company, while paying themselves a salary
-The best way that can apply to your personal life (or your business!)
-Strategies for freelancers to streamline unsteady income
In my take you will learn:
-How to get over being intimidated by new things, like coding
-Why everyone should learn basic coding and web skills
-How creating virtual buckets can help your personal finances, and your business
Episode Links:
Learn more about Skillcrush! skillcrush.com
Try SkillCrush’s 10-day bootcamp! https://learn.skillcrush.com/skillcrush-10-day-bootcamp/
Follow Skillcrush and Adda!
Twitter: @skillcrush @addbjork
Instagram @skillcrush @addabjork
Facebook Skillcrush addabjork
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Adda Birnir:
What we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, that was Adda Birnir. She is CEO of Skillcrush, which is a big and growing online tech education company. She's talking about a big revelation that they had, when they were trying to figure out, how to better appeal to women, something very few tech companies were even trying to do, and this was way back in 2012.
Bobbi Rebell:
More on that in a sec, but first, just a quick welcome to all of our new listeners, if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. And if you're returning, welcome back. We try to keep the shows short, because we value your time. But you can also, of course, binge and listen to a few of them, if you're commuting. Or, if you have more time, you can listen to more episodes, all in a row.
Bobbi Rebell:
The goal is to deliver a valuable money story that you can learn from, hopefully be entertained by, and a money tip, that you can put into action pretty much right away, and weave into your life. If you enjoy the show, please consider taking a minute, and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and thank you so much, to all of you that have already done so.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to Adda, and her story. After being laid off from a digital ad agency, where she was an associate producer, she noticed that the technical people all had jobs. She wanted that security, and of course, who doesn't want the money that goes with that security?
Bobbi Rebell:
So she decided, also, because she talks about the fact that she had a lot of free time, that she would learn to code. And it turned out, it wasn't actually that hard. So fast forward to a side hustle, doing coding projects with a friend, and then, to a business venture that actually didn't work out, but it led to one that did, because of basically a chance meeting. Isn't it always that way? That's just the way it happens sometimes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Get ready for some drama here. This is a good story. Here is Skillcrush CEO Adda Birnir.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adda Birnir, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Adda Birnir:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all of your success. You are the founder and CEO of Skillcrush, which is the country's largest online tech education company. Your mission, of course, to help women and minorities learning digital skills, and you've been touted in the media as, so, for all of these accomplishments, 20 Women To Watch In Media, by Columbia Journalism School. You're one of the 30 Most Important Women In Tech, by Business Insider.
Bobbi Rebell:
We could basically spend the whole podcast going over that stuff, but I'm just happy to have you here, and get a little bit of your time in your busy day, running your growing empire. So thank you for being here.
Adda Birnir:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
The money story that you're going to share with us has a lot to do with how Skillcrush was born.
Adda Birnir:
Yeah, so, this is 2012 now. This is kind of the heyday of the incubator. I mean, they still exist, but they were really big then, and we were interested in exploring, trying to create some sort of software product ourselves.We had been playing around with a couple different ideas, and like I said, Skillcrush, which was called something totally different at the time, it was called Digital Divas, was totally, just like, a fun side product.
Adda Birnir:
We had this Tablet publishing software, so it was basically, like, our goal was to make it easy for online publishers to publish to iPads. That was kind of the thing we thought was like an actual business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it was a total business pivot.
Adda Birnir:
It wasn't even like, a pivot. It was like, an isolated example. We just threw one out, and we're like, "Oh, people think we're interested in this one." It was good. I mean, it was one of those examples that the market tells you what they're interested in. And basically, no one gave two bleeps about the Tablet publishing, and everyone was super interested in the Digital Diva thing.
Adda Birnir:
Then, at the same time, fortuitously, I did this program at CUNY, on the Journalism School. And there, I met a woman named Jennifer McFadden, who went on to become my cofounder at Skillcrush, and she had done a lot of research about the online education space.
Adda Birnir:
So it was sort of, one of those, sort of total kismet moments, where I had this education product, that I didn't have any sense for the business proposition, or the business opportunity, and she had all this deep knowledge about the education space. So that was what really started it.
Adda Birnir:
I will say, though, because we'd had this failed attempt at this Tablet publishing software, I was very, very cautious with Skillcrush. I didn't want to invest in it without validating the idea on some product.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do? What are the steps you took to validate it?
Adda Birnir:
Basically, when you go through this process, what you want to do is, you want to figure out, what is your riskiest assumption? For us, because, at the time, there weren't as many online education players. But there was lynda.com. So we felt like, it's that aspect of it, will people pay for education online, was validated.
Adda Birnir:
That, to us, was not the riskiest assumption. The riskiest assumption for Skillcrush was whether women would pay for, or would be interested in, a technology learning platform. So we designed this experiment, which is that we started a newsletter, and basically, what the sort of offer was, that the newsletter offered, was, we would define a technical term, and find an interesting way. And we'd done a day for 30 days.
Adda Birnir:
We went to South By Southwest, and figured, what we'll do is, we'll pitch this to women at South By Southwest, and they will buy it, with their e-mail address. We considered that sort of like, a transaction, and we figured, if we can't convince women at South By Southwest to purchase this, with their e-mail address for free, obviously, then there's no hope for us.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happens?
Adda Birnir:
So, I think we had set, fill that goal of having 2,000 signups, and we did not get that, because we were doing direct sales. But our hit rate was 90% of them. I mean, everyone we spoke to, we got to sign up for it, so that was kind of our first positive signal. Then we actually, through that process, happened to pitch a woman who happened to work for Mother Jones. So then, she wrote us up, and then, that gave us another 600 signups, or something.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!
Adda Birnir:
That basically ended up with about 1,000 people.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then, what happened from there?
Adda Birnir:
So, from there, we started doing the Term a Day newsletter, and it started to build momentum, and I think we probably signed up, like, 3,000 people. Which, again, just to put this in perspective, this is shortly after Code Academy had gone live, and they had gotten 200,000 people to sign up over a 24-hour period. So I was completely bereft and disappointed by the 2,000. We had applied for the start of incubator, and we got in, and that gave us $25,000 of funding.
Adda Birnir:
The thing that I guess I think about it, like, at the time, I really needed that validation. Looking back on it, I think what I got out of it, more than the $25,000 ... because, honestly, the $25,000 just paid for incorporation. I didn't really have a lot of money, but it really was validation from an external source, that this is a cool idea, and you should keep working on it, and I think at that moment, I really needed that. But I don't think, the money itself, do you know what I'm saying?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Adda Birnir:
I think about this a lot, and looking back on it, I didn't need that validation, and that validation really didn't mean anything. Because they weren't my target audience, right? They didn't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
But at the time ...
Adda Birnir:
But at the time ...
Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, that mattered. Yeah.
Adda Birnir:
Exactly. But I just think about that, when I hear about women saying, "You know, I can't get funded," and I'm like, "Well, just remember, you don't need that validation from something." The only person, the only people that you need to validate your business are your customers, and often, it's easier to get them to validate it, than it is to get a venture capitalist to validate it.
Adda Birnir:
But we did, also from that, we did get another $50,000 as a convertible note from my other investors. That did give us some money, and that sort of about paid us, probably for the next four months, to build out Version 0.2, or whatever, of the product.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this?
Adda Birnir:
A lot of people get very attached to what is their solution, and there's kind of a thing in the startup community, which is that you got a solution in search of a problem. I think the most important thing that I can say to people is, you really have to start from the opposite end, right? You have to start with a problem, and then, come up with a solution for it.
Adda Birnir:
So I would just really encourage everyone, that if you have a business idea, chances are, you're onto something. But, before you kind of go all in on building out what you think is the best solution to this problem that you perceive, is to really talk to the people who are going to be paying for this solution, and really make sure that you understand their problem, and more deeply.
Adda Birnir:
That's sort of the case with Skillcrush. We had a lot of bumps in the road, especially in that first year and a half, and a lot of that was because it wasn't that we hadn't identified a legitimate problem. Because we had.
Adda Birnir:
There were women who could benefit from technical skills, but I will tell you, what we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.
Adda Birnir:
They have some interest, in the sense that technical skills could be helpful. The big insight for us was like, you can't sell women the jobs report. That's not how they purchase that, right? They are looking at, "What is this gonna do for me? What changes will I be able to see in my life?"
Adda Birnir:
That was a fundamental insight that I really didn't have, until I started talking to my customers, and really understanding what their pain points were, and their problems were, and making sure that the solution I was providing really aligned with what problem they were trying to solve.
Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get to your every day money tip, because it's actually a business lesson that applies equally to our personal financial levels.
Adda Birnir:
Yes. One of the biggest kind of "Aha" moments for me with my first business, which I was running with my friend, and we were both freelancers. I remember, we got this big check. I think it was for $10,000, or something, and her impulse was that we should just split it, 50/50. My thought, "Why don't we just set our salaries? We're each going to get $4,000 a month, or something."
Adda Birnir:
I don't remember what it was, these are hypothetical numbers, but I was like, "How about, instead of just splitting every check that comes in 50/50, why don't we put the money in a bank, and take salary, and create the sort of situation you would have, in a normal situation, where you are getting paid, like, a steady salary, even if your actual income is kind of lumpy?
Adda Birnir:
It was really interesting, because this obviously was really helpful for us, just from a perspective of, when you're a freelancer, it's really hard, because your salary and your income is unpredictable. So we sort of artificially created this predictability for us, but it turned out to be a really, really important shift in perspective, in terms of thinking about the business as a third entity, and not sort of seeing it as something, where we were just like, 50/50, but it was like being ... we were like an entity unto itself, that we wanted to grow, and build up.
Adda Birnir:
I think that, in a lot of ways, this is something that is really applicable to anyone who's running a freelance business, even if they're just a one-person freelance shop ... That, to really to start think about your freelancing career as a business, and you want to grow that business, and make sure that business has a really solid foundation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Skillcrush. So much going on. Tell me the latest for summer of 2018.
Adda Birnir:
We are in the process of launching a couple of new blueprints, so when you come to Skllcrsuh, you have two options, in terms of how you want to learn. You can either take our sort of, shorter, more specific skill focus, Blueprints.
Adda Birnir:
Or you can sign up for what we call a Breaking Detect Blueprint, which is our all-inclusive program. You get access to everything that we have, and a lot of personalization. We work with you to set your career goals, and all those things, but we have a couple of new blueprints coming out, where it's going to be launching: a Web developer blueprint, we have a UX Designer blueprint coming out, which is really exciting.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where people can learn more about you, and Skillcrush, and follow you on social media, and all that good stuff?
Adda Birnir:
You just got to skillcrush.com, and sign up for our 10-day boot camp. It's the best way to get started. It's totally free, and you can follow us on Twitter. Just add skillcrush, and on Instagram, at skillcrush. I'm out of Bork on all the platforms, although I'm not the best at this, that you can get ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Spell that out, then.
Adda Birnir:
Oh. A-D-D-A, B-J-O-R-K. It's just, like Bjork the singer, but it also happens to be my middle name, so ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it, because you're from Iceland. Which is a cool, random fact.
Adda Birnir:
Yes, definitely.
Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you when you came to this country? You were like a baby, right?
Adda Birnir:
I was a tiny little baby, yeah, and I speak Icelandic, and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. Say something.
Adda Birnir:
[foreign language 00:13:01]?
Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?
Adda Birnir:
Just, "This really nice letter today."
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, on that note, we'll leave it there, thank you so much.
Adda Birnir:
Thanks for just having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. So here's my take. When Adda and I were talking before the interview, she confessed that she had been so intimidated, just by the concept of coding beforehand, that she was resisting it, until, of course, she learned about them money thing, and all that.
Bobbi Rebell:
But then, when she focused, and tried it, she found out, it actually wasn't that hard.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number One: don't be intimidated by coding, or any skill that can benefit your career. It's basically a language. It can be challenging, she says, but it will open opportunities, and is becoming a basic thing that we all need to know a little bit about, at least, the basic level.
Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you're not directly coding, you may be supervising someone who is coding, or have somebody on your team, or at your company, or a peer. Understanding the basics of what they're doing, is going to help you figure out and understand workflow and project management.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I learned even just basic HTML years ago, and I built a website, literally typing in the codee that's now generally automatically generated for you, I was actually typing in the different codes.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, pre-Wordpress, pre-Squares-based, the whole thing. Skillcrush does have a free 10-day boot camp. So you can do that. I'm going to leave a link in the notes. It's pretty much risk-free, and worth checking out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: the every day money tip that she was talking about was basically about creating buckets for different needs with your money. So that can be really useful in your personal finances, even though she did really for business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Paying yourself the same amount each, especially if you have a variable income, is really useful. And then, you can put everything extra, in a different bucket, for a specific purpose. It's a great way, if you have a big goal, especially a goal that's intimidating, like, saving for a house down payment or something. Put it in a separate bucket. It'll start to add up. You won't even noticing it, and it works.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support of the show. If you like it, please, just tell a friend. Be sure to follow us on social media, and share the promo video, if you like them. You can win one for your business, or even just for yourself. Share them. Whoever the most this month, I'm going to pick someone, and I will make them a promotional video for themselves, or their business.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Twitter, you can follow me @bobbirebell, on Instagram, @obbirebell1. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell, and to learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financial grown-up podcasts.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, [Ada Bernier 00:15:47] learned to move out of a career that left her financially vulnerable. She built a business instead focusing on helping others follow the money. Always a good philosophy when it comes to business and career. So thank you, Adda, for sharing your story, and for getting us one step closer to being financial grownups.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup With Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Stuart 00:16:20], and is a BRK media production.
As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup.
In Randi’s money story you will learn:
-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000
-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses
-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway
In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:
-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence
-If Randi still has all those shoes!
-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money
In Randi’s money tip you will learn:
-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
In My Take you will learn:
-How to manage social media envy
-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends
-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency
Episode Links:
Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com
Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day
Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial
Follow Randi!
Facebook Randi Zuckerberg
Instagram @RandiZuckerberg
Twitter @RandiZuckerberg
Also mentioned
Statement Event
Empower App
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.
Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.
Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-
Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."
Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?
Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."
Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?
Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?
Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?
Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?
Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?
Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach.
In Kathryn’s money story you will learn
-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money
-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing
-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors
-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets
-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors
-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective
-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy
-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company
-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round
In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:
-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors
-How she got help from other entrepreneurs
-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark
-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important
-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company
In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:
-Negotiations can be about more than just cash
-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.
-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them
In my take you will learn:
-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture
-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches
-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful.
Episode links:
TheMuse.com
Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work
Follow Kathryn and The Muse!
Instagram @kminshew @themuse
Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse
https://www.facebook.com/minshew
Transcription
Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.
Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?
Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".
Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.
Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.
Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.
Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.
Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.
Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?
Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.
Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?
Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.
Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.
Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.
Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.
Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.
Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.
Money expert Lynnette Khalfani-Cox admits she was “young and dumb” when she owed money and could not pay it back. Instead of facing her reality- she hoped if she ignored it, it would go away. It did not.
In Lynnette’s money story you will learn:
-Why she decided to borrow money from family
-The reason she was not able to pay it back despite having a plan
-Why she hid from several creditors- and her creative cover ups
-The devastating consequences of not paying her debt
In Lynnette’s lesson you will learn:
-Strategies to identify in advance when you are buying to impress others at your own expense
-No one who loves you is going to want you to go into debt for them
-You can run but you can’t hide from debt
In Lynnette’s money tip you will learn:
-The 3 questions Lynnette and her husband ask each other before taking on debt
-How to borrow strategically
In my take you will learn
-The importance of facing up to your debt
-The danger of getting creditors involved
-Strategies to lower your obligations including meeting in person and negotiating lower payments
Episode Links
MoneyCoachUniversity.com
Askthemoneycoach.com
https://themoneycoach.net
Follow Lynnette!!
Instagram @themoneycoach
Facebook The Money Coach
Twitter @themoneycoach
Money expert Lynnette Khalfani-Cox admits she was “young and dumb” when she owed money and could not pay it back. Instead of facing her reality- she hoped if she ignored it, it would go away. It did not. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how to strategically borrow money. #DebtFree #FinanceTips #BorrowMoney
Transcription
Lynette K. Cox:
I was mortified that my sister had to literally call me out and call me on the carpet, and just tell me how raggedy I was being, and how irresponsible.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Well, the only thing worse than having debt you can't pay back is having debt and just ignoring it. That will only make it worse. Actually, wait. There is one thing that is actually even worse, and that is, of course, owing money to family and trying to duck it. My guest is Lynette Khalfani-Cox, known as the Money Coach. She is also the force behind Money Coach University. Her sister's loan wasn't the only one she was hiding from. Let's just say there's a guy she wants to impress involved, cars get repossessed, and all kinds of chaos ensues. I can't believe she told us this story. This is definitely unbelievable. Here is Lynette Khalfani-Cox.
Bobbi Rebell:
Lynette Khalfani-Cox, welcome to the show. You are a financial grownup.
Lynette K. Cox:
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's great to have you, especially because I am such a fan of yours. We've met through friends a couple of times at different events, and of course you were a superstar at the last FinCon, which was fantastic.
Lynette K. Cox:
I am so looking forward to FinCon 2018.
Bobbi Rebell:
Orlando.
Lynette K. Cox:
Exactly. What is not to like about Florida?
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. I love the money story that you are going to share with us. You did a little bit of hide and seek in college. You weren't always the superstar that you are now, to say the least.
Lynette K. Cox:
Yeah. That's putting it mildly. The story I want to share is about the time that I hid in college, not just from one creditor, but actually from two. One of the creditors, surprisingly enough, was my sister, Cheryl. I have five sisters, and Cheryl's the oldest one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my.
Lynette K. Cox:
Never a good look there, to hide from a family member that you owe. But also from my car lender. Here's kind of what happened with both situations. I was totally young and dumb when I was in college. Honestly, I didn't borrow wisely, but-
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you borrow for? What were these loans for?
Lynette K. Cox:
With my sister, I had my very first internship, a college internship with ... I'll never forget. With WEAR-TV in Pensacola, Florida, and my sister lived right nearby there at the time, and I was in school in Southern California. I went to University of California Irvine for undergrad. I had this internship, but guess what? It didn't pay. They actually said, "Oh, we'll give you a stipend at the end." What happened was, I asked my sister to borrow money in order to go out there to Florida, to get a plane ticket from Southern Cal into Pensacola area. I had all the best of intentions, and I really did plan to pay her back.
Lynette K. Cox:
Well, what happens? I go back to Southern California after the internship, then I don't. I just don't immediately pay her back. Life got in the way. My tuition, and fees, and books, and supplies-
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah.
Lynette K. Cox:
... everything else. Then she called me. She was like, "Oh, hey." And she left me a voicemail, and I didn't make a speedy beat to call her back, and then the next week she called me again, and then I didn't call her back, and boy, the third time she called me did she let me have it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ooh.
Lynette K. Cox:
She said, "Lynette, I don't want you to treat me like you would treat a Visa or a MasterCard, a creditor." She said, "You borrowed from family. I'm your sister and I love you, but you have to be financially responsible. Don't duck your obligations, and most importantly, don't duck me." She said, "If you don't have the money, just say, 'I don't have it.' Or, 'Here, let me pay you back a month from now.' Or, 'Let me work out a payment plan for you.' Or let ..." It was such a wake-up call, Bobbi, I'll tell you, because I was so embarrassed. I was mortified, frankly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Then there was also this car loan.
Lynette K. Cox:
Oh, yeah. There was the car loan. I had a 1987 Hyundai Excel. It was my very first car. Don't you know, that car got repossessed.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Lynette K. Cox:
I only missed two payments. I don't know why they did that to me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is that standard, that they repossess so quickly? Is that the norm?
Lynette K. Cox:
Wait, or was it three? I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
But still, that seems ... I don't know. Did you talk to them and say, "Can you cut me some slack?" Was there any dialogue, or you just shut them down?
Lynette K. Cox:
Absolutely not. I was such a bonehead. Again, very quickly, here's what I did. I had a boyfriend at the time. Doesn't it always involve a guy?
Bobbi Rebell:
Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
Lynette K. Cox:
Very nice, sweet guy. We were totally into each other. We're walking through the mall one time in Southern California. We go into a leather store. It was around the holidays. He sees this leather coat, this brown leather coat. I see him look at the tag at the end of the sleeve, on the arm of the coat, and he looks at it quickly and goes, "whew," and just flips that tag back around, as if, "Whew, that's too expensive for my taste." He just keeps walking, but what do I do? Young and dumb. I'm like, "Ooh, note to self. I see that he really liked the coat. I'm gonna come back and buy it."
Lynette K. Cox:
Sure enough, I go back to the store. I spend like $500, which I have-
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your car payment? Do you remember?
Lynette K. Cox:
Yes. It was about $225, $250.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're talking about two months' car payments, which would have prevented the car from being repossessed.
Lynette K. Cox:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Lynette K. Cox:
I totally, I just blew it. I mean, I did not even attempt to contact Hyundai Motor Credit Corp, and yes, they did come and take that car, rightfully so, of course.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did the boyfriend drive you around everywhere then?
Lynette K. Cox:
You know what? I learned an even bigger lesson, because I had to fess up. One day I walked out of my apartment that I had. You would have thought I was Halle Berry. I was such an actress, okay? I was like, "Where's my car?" He was like, "Oh my god. Did somebody steal your car? Where's your car?"
Bobbi Rebell:
"You're wearing it."
Lynette K. Cox:
Yeah, exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did he have the jacket on? Oh my gosh.
Lynette K. Cox:
Finally, I fessed up. I was like, "No. You know what, honey? Actually I think my car got repossessed." He was like, "What?" He was like, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, to be honest, I didn't pay my car note." He was like, "What?" He was so shocked. He looked at me. He said, "If you didn't have the money for it, how come you didn't just ask me? I would have given you the money."
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Lynette K. Cox:
He was a very sweet guy, and I said, "No, no, no." He knew that I was working at the time. I was a dispatcher for AAA at the time, in college. He says, "Well, can I ask, what did you do with your money?" I was like, "You know that brown leather coat that I got you for Christmas?" He was like, "Yeah." I said, "Well, I kind of spent two car payments on that."
Bobbi Rebell:
See, he wouldn't spend his own money on that.
Lynette K. Cox:
Yeah. But he told me something, Bobbi, again, that I never forgot. He said, "Lynette, I would have never want you to put yourself in the hole for me." It was a wake-up call. I mean, nobody who loves you is really gonna want you to just ... You don't have to spend to impress somebody. You don't have to buy someone's love. You don't have to try to dig yourself in the hole, quote-unquote, to make somebody else happy. It just doesn't work that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? What could you have done differently, looking back with all of your wisdom now?
Lynette K. Cox:
Unquestionably, the biggest lesson that I got is that you can run, but you can't hide, and that literally as much as you may try to duck your responsibilities ... Believe me, I tried to hide that Hyundai. Like, I parked on the side, not right in the front of my apartment complex. But as much as you try to shirk or duck your financial responsibilities, in the end, it always catches up with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
For your money tip, I love that you're going to talk about debt, because sometimes you do need to borrow money.
Lynette K. Cox:
What my husband and I do, before we borrow now, we first ask ourselves three questions. Question one is, "Can we afford to pay cash instead of borrowing?" If the answer is "no," or "not comfortably," then we say, "Is this something that's worth borrowing for?" We love to travel, but is it worth just going into debt, putting it on a credit card, and really, the answer is "no" for that. But the third question is, "If you say yes, it is worth borrowing for, what is the lowest cost source that we can tap to borrow and pay off the debt?" When you do that, at least you're borrowing strategically. You're borrowing wisely, giving it some serious thought and consideration before you just sign on the dotted line.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, let's talk about MoneyCoachUniversity.com.
Lynette K. Cox:
Well, I'm doing courses, and I'm teaching people everything under the sun about money, about budgeting. I have a course on there, Negotiating for Women. I have a course about paying for college, credit courses, debt courses. It's really teaching people the nuts and bolts about personal finances, in what I hope is an engaging way, and they get lessons. I give them homework assignments, and we kind of make it fun, but it's all video-based. You know, I write a lot. You know I've written 12 books, but everybody doesn't want to read a 200, 250 page book. Watch a video instead, and learn.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are prolific. Oh my gosh. I mean, 12 books, all these video courses. Amazing. Where can people find you?
Lynette K. Cox:
Well, my free financial advice site is AsktheMoneyCoach.com. A ton of videos on there. 1600 plus articles. You mentioned that I've written 12 books. I'm super proud about that. Then the latest is MoneyCoachUniversity.com. We're all on social media. Everything is just @TheMoneyCoach. Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, all that good stuff. Instagram too, now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Instagram too. Everything.
Lynette K. Cox:
I'm on the Gram.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I don't know how you do it all. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been great. Thank you so much.
Lynette K. Cox:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
This episode was a tough one. My friends, I truly hope you do not have an experience anything like Lynette. Financial Grownup Tip number one: Do not duck and cover. If you can not pay a debt, find a way to work something out. No creditor wants to get zero paid back. They want to work with you, and you do not want them sending your case to a collection agency. No one wins there, and it will wreck your credit score. There's nothing more not grownup than just hoping if you ignore the debt it will go away. It will not.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two: Make a phone call to the person or business to whom you owe money. Even if you can, make an appointment and go in person. I say that because if you just email, there's no human touch. If they can sense your goodwill and your honesty, and see you as a person, not a bill to be collected, it could make them want to help you more, because you're a person, not a piece of paper. While you should be prepared to tell them what you can pay- in other words, do your math in advance and come prepared- before you actually offer anything, tell them your story and say, "I want to work something out. I value your service, and you do deserve to be paid, but can you help me out a little here? What can you do for me?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Just give it a few minutes. Let them think about it. They may reduce the overall bill. They may propose some kind of payment plan that works for you better than you even would have proposed to them. Even if they don't, move forward. Set up something. Find a way to pay them something. If you are really tight, a small payment, even if they have to increase down the road.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grownup. If you like the show, take a minute to rate and review us, and if you have not already, please hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any episodes. I want to hear from you guys. Get in touch on social media, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and don't forget to leave me comments. Go to my website. Please sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show. No more hide and seek, my friends. I hope you guys enjoyed Lynette's story as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession.
In Stefanie’s story you will learn:
-The challenges of her seven years as a professional actress
-How the recession left her unemployed half way around the world
-The harsh financial realities of the entertainment business
-The creative ways Stefanie handled her finances, including roommates, while she traveled as an actress
-Her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want
-Why she pivoted to become a personal finance expert
-The tools she uses to manager her own money
-How to build a lifestyle you love while still following your passion
-The two big fairytales she says millennials need to get over
-Her take on how the financial challenges millennials face are different from previous generations
In Stefanie’s lesson you will learn:
-How to own your income potential
-Ways to build your skill sets and find new market opportunities
-How to maximize income growth
-How to transition your passion skill set into one that is also profitable
In Stefanie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her online shopping strategy
-How she uses online cash back portals like ebates
-The savings you can get from browser extensions like Honey that automatically search for coupons and promo codes
-Ways to stack your savings using cash back credit cards
In my take you will learn:
-Why I believe passions should usually not be connected to income
-The benefits of taking the pressure off earning money from your passion
-The danger of having unrealistic expectations from side hustles
-Strategies to own your future by going beyond your credentials like academic accomplishments
Episode links:
Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life
Ebates
Honey
You can find Stefanie at:
Stefanie O’Connell.com
Get Stefanie’s free Cash Confidence challenge
Sign up for Stefanie’s All In DIY class!
Stefanie’s facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/661192974055824/
Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life
Instagram @stefanieoconnell
Twitter @stefanieoconnell
Facebook: Stefanie OConnell
Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn about Stefanie's challenges of her seven years as a professional actress, her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want, and how to maximize income growth. #Income #LifeLessons #Author
Transcription
Stefanie OC:
The reality hit me that this pursuit of my "passion" that everyone says, that isn't always the case because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be Financial Grown Up. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. How many of you have been told, "Follow your dreams. The money will come. Just trust in yourself?" In most cases, you were lied to. Former struggling actress turned millennial finance expert Stefanie O'Connell is here to set you straight. She is also the author of The Broke and The Beautiful book, and she also has a thriving community over at her website, stefanieoconnell.com. I love her story because it will put you on a path to prosperity and, hopefully, more happiness doing what you really are passionate about when you're not earning money. Here is Stefanie O'Connell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie O'Connell, author of The Broke and Beautiful Life and millennial money expert, you're a financial grown up and welcome to the program.
Stefanie OC:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to congratulate you on your new venture, All In. Tell us about it.
Stefanie OC:
Oh, it is a course specifically designed for millennial women who want to feel as confident with their money, as they do in the rest of their lives. I know too many women who are really successful in their careers, really successful in their personal relationships, and all these different facets of their lifestyle, but when it comes to their money, they feel really out of control, so I built this 10-module step-by-step blueprint to help those ambitious women match their cash competence with their lifestyle ambitions.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect, and we will put a link to where you can find that more in the show notes. I want to get right to your story because it's so relatable and it's something that is so relevant to young people figuring out where they want to put their energy and where they want to earn their money. Tell us your money story, Ms. Stefanie.
Stefanie OC:
Okay. I'm going to try to keep it concise here. It's been a bit of a journey. But, essentially, it started in college when I decided I was going to pursue acting professionally. Now, I did get a degree in psychology as well as like backup plan, my responsible, quote unquote backup plan, but the plan was to be a professional actress and, believe it or not, I was. I actually was for seven years a professional actress, but it was extremely difficult, primarily because I worked in theater, not film, so the paydays are not the same.
Stefanie OC:
I also graduated in 2008, which was the year of the recession. So even though I got a great job right out of school on like a dream tour of Asia, understudying one of my professional musical theater idols, the producers flew out about halfway through the tour, and there were, like, "Oh, you know, there was a global recession. We're going to send you all home." [inaudible 00:03:22]-
Bobbi Rebell:
Just like that?
Stefanie OC:
Yeah just like that, so my bubble just got-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you basically got laid off in the middle of the world, in the middle of nowhere.
Stefanie OC:
As a actress, which is the most ... it's the first thing to go, right? Entertainment budget, especially for something like live theater that's really expensive is the first thing people cut out. So the industry was really in bad shape and the first job offer I got after was to play three leading roles in three musicals for $225 a week. And I was like, "Okay, that is not sustainable. Yeah. This is my profession it is how I support myself." So I had to turn it down. And for the next five or six years after that I kept coming up against this reality of okay, I'm doing what I love, but it's not paying the bills. It's not sustainable, it's not consistent, when I do get work it's a huge win if I'm making $500 a week, I live in New York city. That is not enough money to sustain even a very basic lifestyle.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, how were you living? Did you have roommates? What was going on there?
Stefanie OC:
Oh yeah. So I've always had roommates. I've never not had roommates, so I'm 31 years old.
Bobbi Rebell:
Including now.
Stefanie OC:
Including now. I live my boyfriend now, so it's a little different.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good kind of roommate.
Stefanie OC:
Yeah it's a better kind of roommate situation. And then I also sublet my apartment a lot. So one of the things about being an actor is I was on the road a lot, so I was able to sublet my apartment so I didn't have the expense of rent which was a savior for me. And so even if I wasn't making a ton of money, maybe two, three hundred dollars a week, if I didn't have a $1500 a month cost of rent that made it a lot more sustainable to pursue it. That said, I would come home at the end of my contracts and still need to pay rent.
Stefanie OC:
So it just didn't work. The numbers didn't add up. And so what happened for me was there was just this huge sense of frustration and the reality hit me that this pursuit of my passion, quote unquote, that everyone says if you do that everything will work itself out, just that isn't always the case when it comes to your money. Because there's more to your life than just what you do for a living. There are other goals you have, there are the trips you want to take, there are the weddings you want to have, there are the children and family you want to start, there's the house you want to buy. And that costs money. And I had this realization that if I continued doing what I was doing I was never going to create enough capital through acting, through this pursuit of my passion to do all these things that I cared about in the rest of my life.
Stefanie OC:
And so I really started digging into personal finance because I wanted to understand, okay, how do I take the little money I have and maximize it and then step two, how do I bring more in? So that I have more to maximize and that really set me on this journey of personal transformation to owning my own cash confidence, as I like to call it, through tracking my spending, through earning more, through learning to invest, through saving and tracking that all on my blog at stefanieoconnell.com and then finding a community of other people in similar situations, millennials working through the recession who were really taught do what they love and are facing this reality of, well what if that doesn't pay the bills? And how do I still build a lifestyle I love, even if it's not necessarily the way I thought it was going to look like?
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you and lot of millennials were sold this fairytale that if you follow your passion the money will come?
Stefanie OC:
Absolutely. I think there are two big fairytales. That one and then the second one is if you get a college degree you're set for life. Because I think you know, for my parents for example, they graduated college, they did get their MBAs, but from there it was smooth sailing right from graduation to retirement. There was great salaries, there were income increases, there was healthcare, there was retirement benefits. I've never had any of those things. I've never had employer sponsored health care, I've never had a 401K plan. So it's so much more, even if you're not necessarily pursuing your passion, even if you're just trying to make a living, for so many young people today there isn't that inbuilt infrastructure that takes your hand and paves the way for you from graduation to retirement.
Stefanie OC:
So much of the onus now is on the individual, and that's why I really started writing about this stuff, because I found that so much of the personal space was like, "Contribute to your 401K." And meanwhile, I'm surrounded by people who've never even had the opportunity to have access to a 401K. So that's why I write about what I write about.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right so you are 31 years old now. What is the lesson from that journey, for our listeners?
Stefanie OC:
Yeah, so for me the biggest lesson is that you are the primary driver of your own income potential. I think we have this idea that our degree or our experience or our skills or our lack of any of those things is what dictates what opportunities are available to us, but the reality is it's us. It's our willingness to continue putting ourselves out there, building our skillsets, finding new market opportunities and really putting ourselves in the drivers seat of our own earning potential that really leads to maximal income growth. And I think that it's so important because we too often make excuses for ourselves for why a six figure salary is not available to us or why a one million dollar net worth is not available to us.
Stefanie OC:
And we have to [inaudible 00:09:04] ownership of those things, before we can start making progress to actually achieving them.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it may not be in the glam career that you envision, that may be a side thing.
Stefanie OC:
Yeah. And the other thing is I think there's this all or nothing mentality that's really destructive. I'm not professionally acting anymore, but I love what I do. And one of the big things I do is I give talks, I go on camera a lot, I do a lot of media appearances and I feel like I get to use that skillset from acting that I so enjoyed [inaudible 00:09:36] performance all the time, but now I get paid ten, 20, 30 times what I used to make. But the fact is I would have never found this outlet if I had never pivoted temporarily to something a little less glamorous like freelance writing and blogging about money. Right?
Stefanie OC:
So we have to remember that it's not like you're abandoning this thing forever, it's just about trying a new approach so that you can have a lifestyle you love and not just a career you love.
Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something specific and actionable that everyone can do right now.
Stefanie OC:
Okay, so this one is a little bit more simple, a really quick win that you [crosstalk 00:10:15]-
Bobbi Rebell:
We love simple.
Stefanie OC:
Can start with right now.
Stefanie OC:
There's a lot of shopping online, I personally do most of my shopping online because anytime I walk into a retail environment it's a 20 minute wait, it drives me crazy. So one of the ways I save, I have different ways of doing my shopping. So I will sometimes go through an online cash back portal, like an Ebates, where if you go through their portal first and then select the retailer you can get one or two or three or four percent cashback on all of your purchases. And then also downloading a browser extension like Honey that automatically searches for coupons and promo codes for you. And applies them to your order without you even having to go open up 20 tabs and search for promo codes.
Stefanie OC:
And then you can stack your savings even further by using a cash back credit card. So you know, get one percent or [inaudible 00:11:10] percent cash back on all purchases on your credit card, plus the promo code, plus the cash back from shopping through something like Ebates, you're really stacking your savings for immediate wins on all your purchases.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent advice, Stefanie O'Connell, millennial money expert, thank you so much.
Stefanie OC:
Thank you Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends, here is my take on what Stefanie had to say. Financial grown up tip number one, detach your passion from your income. We all spend a lot of time at our paying jobs and businesses so obviously you don't want to pick something that you don't like and you can't stand. You want to be happy, you're putting a lot of time in there, but that may not be your passion. Focus on earning the income you need to be happy in life and maybe pursue that passion on the side. It could be a side hustle, it could just be a hobby. Take the pressure off trying to earn a living at your passion. You may actually find yourself enjoying it more without the pressure to create income from that passion.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, don't sit on your laurels just because you got a college degree. It matters a lot, but for the most part after your first job it's going to come down to you and how hard and how smart you work. As Stefanie said so well, you have to have ownership of your own future. Don't just show up at your job, really show up. Be present, try hard, do extra things that are beyond the exact job duties. Impress your boss, learn new skills. A degree is only one piece of the puzzle, you have to fill in the rest by earning it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right thank you all for your support of the podcast, I love hearing your feedback and I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. Please also follow me on social media. I'm @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and of course, go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Stefanie O'Connell's story and her advice. I think she's terrific. Check out her website, as I said, stefanieoconnell.com, and I hope we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
MSNBC Your Business host JJ Ramberg didn’t just love Ben & Jerry’s ice cream growing up.
She loved their mission. That led not only to her career interviewing entrepreneurs on television but to her own socially responsible ventures including Goodshop and The Startup Club.
In JJ’s money story you will learn:
-How Ben and Jerry’s Ice cream inspired JJ’s business with her brother called Goodshop
-How her business supports non-profit causes
-How to use GetGumdrop to support causes you care about
-How her ventures have raised nearly $13 million dollars for non-profit causes
In JJ’s lesson you will learn:
-How to balance being socially responsible business with profitability
-Why JJ believes corporate sustainability starts with focusing on secure jobs for employees
-When NOT to give directly to charity
In JJ’s money tip you will learn:
-How JJ’s new spending categorization strategy is helping her save money
In my take you will learn:
-How to balance supporting your business with supporting causes you believe in
-No-cost ways to support charities you believe in
Episode Links
Learn more about
JJ Ramberg on MSNBC
Been There Built That podcast
Your Business with JJ Ramberg on MSNBC
The Startup Club book
Goodshop
GetGumDrop
Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream
The Body Shop
Patagonia
Amazon Smile
Bidding for Good
Follow JJ Ramberg!
Twitter @jjramberg
Instagram @jj.ramberg
Facebook JJRamberg
MSNBC Your Business host JJ Ramberg didn’t just love Ben & Jerry’s ice cream growing up. She loved their mission. That led not only to her career interviewing entrepreneurs on television but to her own socially responsible ventures. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we also discuss no-cost ways you can support charities. #CharityIdeas #GiveBack