Posts in Role Models
Money Tips to build your kids financial habits early with Stephanie Uchima-Carney
Money Tips to build your kids financial habits early with Stephanie Uchima-Carney
 

Stephanie Uchima-Carney, host of the Mommy’s on a Call podcast shares easy and fun tips for getting kids on the right track to be Financial Grownups

 
 
 
 

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse because their girlfriend had, it's because they wanted it because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of launching Financial Grownups, because you know what grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Haven't we all been there? Seeing something cool that our friends have or hearing about an amazing vacation we would love to go on, but it's not always in our budget. For parents, if that want is coming from our kids, it's tough, but it can also be an opportunity. And that's what we are talking about today with our guest. Stephanie Uchima is a business strategist, wellness coach and the host of the podcast, Mommy's on a Call. She's a mom of three who has learned to leverage those kid-driven wishlist into really effective money lessons. She uses everyday events as well as planned games and experiences to make money lessons real. And her tips are for more than moms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie and I talk about so many great things, including the stock market game, which she will explain, it's for older kids and getting your kids to open up about what they really want when they ask for expensive things and pricey vacations. The truth is that's not often what they're actually after. Here is Stephanie Uchima. Stephanie Uchima-Carney, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am a huge fan of your podcast, by the way, which is Mommy's on a Call. You're also a business strategist and a wellness coach. And of course, because your podcast is Mommy's on a Call, you also are the mom of three kids. So welcome.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me. Yes. Three little kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Three very little kids, one of which was a pandemic baby, so you have your hands full. we recently connected at a conference and we were talking a lot about, because I write about teaching older kids about money, you have a passion for teaching the youngest children about money. And so I asked you to come on here to give some tips to people who may have younger kids in their lives, their own kids maybe, maybe their grandkids, maybe their friends' kids, maybe their nieces and nephews. But I think there's never a time too early when the kid expresses interest to teach a child about money. Tell us more about why you're so interested in this. Have there been things that have come up in your life that have brought this to be top of mind for you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Yes. Well, so I kind of went on this journey of working on my own money mindset and really thinking about my own personal relationship with money. And I realized a lot of money relates back to your youth, back to your childhood. People have asked, "What's your very first memory of money? And so when I started to do my own reflection on that, I realized, "Wow, my own relationship with money has to do with when I was a very, very little kid." And so if I was a little kid when it shaped the future of my relationship with money as an adult, I need get to start early with my own children, so I don't basically screw them up for the future either. And so thinking about that, I was like, "Okay, let's learn more. I know they're young." So my kids are currently two, almost four and almost seven.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
They have play money, they have different things, but how can I start to instill the values and the relationship with money at an early age, so that when they are almost 40 years old going on a money mindset track down memory lane, they don't say, "Oh my goodness. Yeah, my mom and dad really screwed me up in the beginning."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you teach little kids about money? Do you let them see what's going on on your phone, for example, when you pay for things?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So we actually to just play with play money and I know they've seen Venmo, but they don't really understand what the digital money is. And I honestly think for toddlers and for little kids, that's a little much, but we do have play credit cards. And so my daughters are only two and almost four and they have a Mini Mouse grocery set and we play actual cash, like cash register and grocery. So there's a little cash register on it. It has fake money. It has one for a dollar, five for a five little coins and we go through it. I'm like, "I want eggs. The eggs are a dollar. Here's my money." I give it to them and they give it back or they understand that there's an exchange. And I always say, "It's not just money for something, it's also an energy exchange."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So I go on it on two different ways. And I know that could sound a little woo. But I always say, "Money is just an exchange for the value you're giving me. Money is exchanged for a product, money's exchange for a service." We use money as a universal tool to help get different things. And so they have two cash registers. They have a learning resources, one, a mini mouse one, and we literally just play. So my big thing is teaching toddlers and little kids is to do it through play. So have them have their own little wallet with their own fake credit card. And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I don't think you can buy that today. You need to make a choice between these two items, because you only have $5 and this one's $8 and this one's $1. You can get five of these." We play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you do that with the credit card? Do you teach them that they have to pay it in full at the end of the month? How does that work? Do you come back to it on a different day? Do you teach them about interest and what would happen if they had a late payment? How far can you take it, especially for your almost seven year old.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So the seven year old, that's funny, because for a while he was like, "Oh, just charge it," or, "Just put it on that." And I looked at him and I said, "Honey, what do you think happens once you give this magical card?" Especially like Amazon, for example, because everything is one touch. He's like, "Just buy that on Amazon." And I'm like, "Oh, I can just buy it. It magically appears, but then what?" Then how does that work? And so we do. We talk to him about the concept of "It's not just magic. It doesn't just appear. There's a cost for things. And so if you want that, it's going to be this amount. And even though you give this magical thing and it happens, it still has to come from somewhere." And so it's really hard. It's easier when it's physical. I think it's really hard, at least personally, to teach them digital. But we also love using manipulatives and he loves math. So that's helpful is that he loves math.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So anytime he goes to a store, he'll look at different numbers and prices of things and we'll play games like, "What's that plus that?" Or, "If I bought two of those, how much would it be?" And so we play around with that to help also academically.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also play the stock market game, so they can learn to invest with play money. And that actually is all online.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So that's for older kids. So a little side note is I substitute taught sixth grade math for fun. I was actually a math major back in college, but never pursued that route. Recently, someone asked if I would substitute teach sixth grade and I said, "Why not? It'd be fun." And they're like, "Oh, and they have this thing called the stock project." So this is more for 11 year olds and 12 year olds. And I was like, "Oh, what's this?" And I started to research it and play it with them. And I think it's such a fun tool for probably 10 to 12 year olds is the stock market game. They were telling me, I was asking them questions. I was like, "Which stocks are you buying? Why are you buying that? What's interesting about that. Okay. If you decide to sell that," and it's really fun, that's all online. But it's a good resource because they can play with their play money. And when they lose, they understand that, because they can see the charts in front of them.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so I think that's a good tool. Also introducing them to what stocks are. What is investing? What does this mean outside of the way money works just in your house, how money can be invested and why companies need money and how that all works?

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about how you can get your kids interested in savings and in automated savings and things like that. Talk about that and your unique approach to that.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
My kids still right now aren't really intrinsically motivated by money. They don't still really understand. Like my son, for example, his birthday's coming up. He's like, "I want this Pokemon thing." And so he has a little piggy bank. We go old school here. And he saved his tooth fairy money. He saved his birthday gift money. And then also I said, "You know what, instead of just leaving it here in your piggy bank, mommy's going to take that and we're going to open up a bank account for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your advice to parents whose kids come home from school or whatever activities they have and, especially as we're hopefully emerging from the pandemic, parents are finally taking those trips that they put off for so long. You asked me this question now I'm putting it right back at you. And they hear about, for example, to use your example, they hear about their friend going to Hawaii. What do you do to your kid that comes home and asks mom, "Can we go on this trip that my friend is going on? We should do that too." And it's not that they're necessarily materialistic. They don't even necessarily know. But how do you manage that?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You're putting me on the spot now on my own question. The way I look at it is today, my son actually said, "I want to go to Hawaii to go rock climbing." And I looked at him and I said, "Rock climbing? What do you mean? We never have been rock climbing in Hawaii." He's like, "Remember that time we climbed on rocks?" I was like, "You mean in Joshua Tree?" I was like, "So you don't actually want to go to Hawaii. You just want the experience of rock climbing? Well, let's look at other places that we can drive to that's close that you can do that." I know a lot of kids are going on trips, especially like Disneyland or things like that. "Why does he get to go? Why don't I get to go?" And I always say kind of like what you say is "Our family makes different choices and we choose for our family and what's best for our family. And so this time we think it's fun since you guys have never been to," I think, well, we're going to a summer camp.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
"Since you guys have never been water skiing and things like that, we decided instead of doing something you've done before, we're going to choose something different. And it'll be a fun experience with the family." I always like to get at the root of what they really want. So maybe they didn't actually want that physical item or maybe they actually didn't want the trip to Hawaii. Maybe they really just wanted family time together. Sometimes we'll come back from a trip. And I'll ask. We went for spring break somewhere and I was like, "What was the best part of the trip?" And he looked at me and said, "Mommy and daddy were here with me for a week." I was like, "Yeah." So we could have been anywhere. We could have literally been home.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so it's what do they really want? And same with even when they're young, when they're toddlers. All they really want is to know that they're loved, that they are accepted for who they are. They just want to feel that comfort. And so materialistic money, all that aside, there's a root at what they want. So if they want an item, because they want to feel included, that's a different emotion. And so now you can address the inclusion part. It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse, because their girlfriend had. It's because they wanted it, because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way you frame that. Tell us quickly about Mommy's on a Call. Because I love this, this is my new obsession, this podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Well, what happened was, is I had a podcast originally called Power Mom Minute and I wanted to interview all the successful moms in business, because I was very curious how they did it behind the scenes. How do you run a company and yet be a mom, because that was my aspiration to do. So I started this podcast and then got pregnant with a third kid, put it on hold, COVID hit. And in the middle of COVID, I needed an outlet and I was still curious, "What's going on in the world of moms?" I was on a phone call and my son was shooting a Spider-Man dart at me. I had a newborn that I was breastfeeding and I literally screamed out loud, "Mommy's on a call. Everyone, be quiet." I was like, "Huh." And the person on the Zoom was like, "That's your podcast name." And I was like, "That's perfect."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So it's a play on two things. Mommy's on a call, like "Go away." We're just going to figure out what's the behind the scenes of moms in business, career. And also mommy's on a call with different aspects of themselves. So I'm really big into multidimensional wellness. So that's not just health and or that's not just physical, emotional, mental. It's also financial. It's also career, which is occupational, environmental. And so mommy's on a call with different parts of the herself and her identity. So talking to you, mommy's on a call with finances and how can we better our financial future and our children's financial future. Or mommy's on a call with her health. And so I might interview someone on intermittent fasting or hormone health, because I'm personally curious. I want to see how you experts do it all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I loved being on your show. I hope everyone checks out Mommy's on a Call. Where else can people find out more about you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You can go to mommysonacall.com. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. It's all under Stephanie Uchima, that's U-C-H-I-M-A and follow me along there. I talk about all things motherhood and wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The advice at the end of the interview about vacations is so on point to what is going on these days with travel. It's not only getting ridiculously expensive, it is also so difficult, it may honestly just not be worth it. So drill down with your kids when they're saying, "We want to go away." And by the way, this goes for your partner or your friends or whoever you will be traveling with and figure out if there's a way to get the same experience or a similar experience or a good enough experience, whether it's rock climbing, or just spending time together without the hefty price tag and not to be overlooked, the hassle factor. One thing that is hassle-free is getting the show notes and full transcripts to this podcast. Both are available right on my website, which is my name. So it's just bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L .com. My newsletter is also available to subscribe to right on my website. Links to all of that in the show notes attached to the podcast, but also again on my website.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for investing the time to listen to this podcast. One thing I am asking in return and it's super easy and it's also free is to take just two more minutes to review my book, Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon. And, yes, the link to review this book on Amazon will be in the show notes, but you can also just find it by going to Amazon, finding the book and scrolling down, and finding where to review it. I am trying to get to 100 reviews and let me tell you, it's not easy. So if you do put a review on that page for me, it is noticed and it is appreciated. Your one review matters a lot to help me get to that goal. So thank you truly. I really appreciate it, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
And please of course share it with me on social media. If you do review the book or just if you the podcast, please help share it. Help me increase my listeners, grow the community. DM on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter, @bobbirebell. And also check out my new TikTok channel. Is that what it's called? Is it a channel? I'm not sure, but I'm posting a lot of videos of me doing local news hits, which is super fun, because I'm giving advice about battling inflation and saving money and so on. And you guys seem to like them, so I love sharing them and I would love to hear from you there. And, of course, make sure you are subscribed not just to this podcast, but to Stephanie's Mommy's on a Call podcast. It's a great one. And big thanks to Stephanie Uchima for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanStephanie Uchima, Stephanie Uchima-Carney, Mom Life, Kids, Children, Financial Education, Family
Answering the question I keep being asked by young adults and parents
Answering the question I keep being asked by young adults and parents
 

In this week’s episode Bobbi answers the question she is getting asked the most after the release of her new book “Launching Financial Grownups”


 
 

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Hi grownups!

I hope everyone is enjoying the spring and spending lots of time with their friends and family- hopefully staying healthy and having time with our loved ones in person. 

I’ve been enjoying getting out as well- and getting to share my new book: Launching Financial Grownups. Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids be Everyday Money Smart. In fact when this episode is released I will be in Los Angeles both for some speaking engagements and also getting to spend time with friends I have not seen since the before times. I’m so excited to get back out there in person. 

It’s been about a month since Launching Financial Grownups was released and it’s been so interesting seeing what people react to- a lot of people have related to my specific tips about teaching the next generation about money and also enjoyed the not always conventional  advice from the experts I was able to interview for the book including Tori Dunlap from her first 100k and financial therapist Dr. Brad Klontz. 

But there is one question that I keep getting when people learn about the book. And I have been surprised because I thought it was something people were more aware of - it wasn’t something I came up with myself and it wasn’t something that I thought would surprise anyone or really be that interesting. In fact it was kind of a last minute decision to expand the section in the book that talks about it. 

The question everyone has been asking is why do parents these days have such a harder time than their parents did- is there something different going on or are we just bad at this parenting thing even though we seem to be trying so much harder?

The last part of that question is the one that really gets everyone frustrated- should be we BETTER at parenting since we are paying so much more attention to it. I mean when we were coming of age, our parents didn’t pay nearly as much attention to us. They certainly didn’t spend as much money on us- and once we were out of school whether it was high school or college they just kind of let us figure it out. 

We’re working so hard to set our kids up for success. Many of us prioritize education and frankly almost any kid related expense over almost anything that seems indulgent or even wanted for us. And yet, their childhood seems to be endless. 

It’s even become a thing on social media. So many parents of early 20 something joke about the fact that their almost adult kids just don’t seem to leave the nest- financially. And the next generation is not shy about embracing their endless adolescence- joking that they are “adulting” as if doing something adult like in their 20’s is a game and they aren’t actually adults. 

But this didn’t just happen.

Parents are financially tied to their kids for longer for some very specific reasons. Here are some of them. 

First: The Affordable Care Act- aka Obamacare allows our offspring to be on our health insurance until age 26. So that often creates a financial tie in the family until age 26- boom- how do you cut off your kid when you are paying their health insurance. That discussion never happened when anyone who is a parent of a 20 something was growing up . 

Ok you’re saying- just limit it at that. But there are other things parents often pay for that also literally did not exist when we were growing up. Let’s talk about the cell phone bill. If it costs $100 for your kid to have their own bill- and your bill doesn’t go up much- maybe $25 to keep them on- you probably are going to do the math and keep them on there at least until they are .. say 26.. when that health insurance tie happens. But time slides- let’s just way a recent bit political investigation turned up a high ranking former presidential aide that was still on his parents phone bill. Google it. 

And who among us is going to take their kid off their Netflix and other streaming services if it literally costs nothing to keep them on. 

All of this is not bad- but it is something that keeps their finances tied to ours, and better for it. 

We’re closer to our kids and frankly tend to be more involved in their lives thanks to technology. When we were dropped off at college we could use a payphone to call home.. at some point. If we had a question about a life skill- we tended to ask around or figure it out. Now the answer is just a text away. Also a quick text away- money. As in, they can get money to us immediately. No waiting for a check in the mail. Which is a good thing because most young people haven’t even really dealt with physical checks. 

The point being- we’re there so solve their problems- instantly - and there’s a lot of good with that- but it also undermines their ability to develop their own solutions- financial or otherwise. 

And they need us more than ever because corporate America - for all it’s talk of upgrading the workplace - is also relying more on contract workers and many of our kids spend their first years in the gig economy- so they don’t have that structure that helped many of us feel like adults. They don’t have income reliability so how can they manage to have their own home- rented or owned. Ditto that for really being able to save up to live somewhere NOT their parents home. 

Which goes a long way to explain why so many of this generation of emerging adults live at home- which used to have a stigma. But will trillions in student debt and minimal wage gains relative to inflation- who can blame them. 

It’s a lot falling on our young adults- and in turn on us. 

So I’m glad we are all gaining a new appreciation of the challenges facing our young adult kids- and so we can understand how we can help them embrace being adults and move past the gamification of adulting. 

If this makes sense to you- I know you will really get a lot out of Launching Financial Grownups and I hope you will check it out. 

In the meantime I’m also giving some tips and having a little fun at my own expense over on Tik Tok- I keep it simple - the handle is just my name.. as it is on all social media except instagram which is bobbirebell1 - DM me or leave a comment on any of the social platforms with your ideas on how to tackle these challenges- whether you are a young adult or a parent- or if you just care about a young adult in your life. 

Also a reminder- if you are celebrating a big milestone this spring- graduation, mothers day, fathers day, an engagement or a big birthday- great gifts are available at grownupgear.com

Thanks so much as always for joining me as we all learn to be financial grownups. 

 
Advice, Authors, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanQuestions Answered, Young Adults, Parents, Parenting, Parenthood, Money, Money Advice
Financial free association Money Tips with Stacked author Joe Saul-Sehy
Financial free association Money Tips with Stacked author Joe Saul-Sehy
 

Joe Saul-Sehy, along with co-author Emily Guy Birken, is out with his first book. Bobbi puts him on the spot with a fun game of financial free association. Listen to hear how Joe did- and if you would have the same answers. 

Money Tips from Joe’s book

  1. Financial Fasting

  2. Electricity Jumanji

  3. Pretend it’s the 70’s and Do the hustle

  4. Understanding the CubE

  5. Emily’s love of custom stickers

  6. Get Two drinks even with American Express

  7. Cancel culture ( as in credit cards)

  8. Einstein approved 

  9. God Invest the queen

  10. Analysis paralysis

  11. Quick Draw

 
 

Follow Joe!

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.


Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never-ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is, it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
My team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup, either," and new colors and designs of our top-selling Generosity line.

Bobbi Rebell:
For the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y, and thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy Holidays, guys.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Do you always make sure you get your money's worth, especially when you paid for something and you feel like it's kind of your revenge reward kind of thing? So for example, and this is something we're going to talk about in the episode, in the interview, if you've earned status on a credit card, are you going to use every single perk and get every possible freebie? Even if it's not something that you necessarily would've wanted, otherwise? I mean, there's no reason not to. Money is funny that way, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Also funny is Joe Saul-Sehy. He is the co-host of the Stacking Benjamin's Podcast and the co-author of Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management, out today, by the way, if you are listening to this episode on the day that it drops. If you've been listening, by the way, to this podcast for a while, you know that name because Joe and I used to have a little podcast together, called Money With Friends, that we put on hold because, well, we both got book deals. So, Joe stopped by to promote his book, and I, of course, took the opportunity to put him on the spot with a little game of financial free association. Joe was kind enough to play along, and you'll get a kick out of this, I promise. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, my friend, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It feels like old days. We're back on together, Bobbi. We got the band back together.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are back on, and typical of me, I'm literally multitasking as we start because I didn't check all your audio stuff, but you're all good. Of course, you are.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And typical of me, I am about 20 minutes late.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is typical of you, yes. Okay. So, we know we are still ourselves, very much so. This is a big occasion. We stopped our mutual podcast because we both, which was called Money With Friends, which was an amazing podcast, and maybe one day it will be revived, but we stopped it because we each got these book deals. So of course, you had to be first. Your book is coming out in late... December 28th. So first of all, congratulations for getting it done.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
No one doubted it at all.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
The first time I tried it, it took 10 years. So as you know, I got a great co-author. Emily Guy Birken kind of helped me get through the process, which was fantastic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Joe, you beat me to the punch. Your book is coming out first. It is called Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. I like to keep you on your toes, so we're going to play a game, and it's called Financial Free Association. What I'm going to do is, I'm going to pull some words and catch phrases out of the book, Stacked, and you're going to tell me a money tip or a money lesson from that phrase. Just so everyone knows, this has not been rehearsed. I am throwing this at Joe, spontaneously. He's doing a little crying on the screen, which you guys can't see, but it's going to be all worth it because I know he's going to come up with some amazing advice from these little catch phrases and words from his book, Stacked, which by the way, again, co-written with Emily Guy Birken, who we have to give all the credit for the book, and Joe is wonderful as the face of the book, promoting it here today with us. All right. So, here we go. Number one, financial fasting.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Financial fasting is when you to take a break, just like when you do a regular fast. You take a break from spending to really see what comes out. What's important to spend money on, and what's not important to spend money on? So when you do a financial fast, you say, "You know what? I'm no longer going to maybe," along with eating, "I'm no longer going to eat at restaurants. I'm no longer going to buy stuff I don't need," outside of, let's say, groceries to live, right? But even before groceries to live, if you're really doing the fast, depending on how big a fast you're doing, you might not buy groceries until you clean everything out of the freezer and the refrigerator. You go through everything before you end the fast. A fast is a way to figure out what's important in your life and what's not, so when you create the real budget, you can design it around those things that are important to you and avoid all the stuff that's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, electricity Jumanji.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
My kids are 26 now, but this is back when they were about eight-years-old, and at that time, bills came in the mail once a month for the utility bill for electricity. So what we did was, we just took out some graph paper, and you could still do this, right, with your monthly... if you get the electronic notice of what your bill is going to be each month. We took out some graph paper, and we played a limbo game. We played Jumanji. It's, how low can you go with this electric bill? And it was awesome because I went from me being the only one who cared.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Guess what the prize was? There was no prize. There was no prize. It was just, let's see if we can do this together and make it a game. How low can we go? Can we beat last month? And just that little bit of motivation, I would be watching a television, and I'd leave the room to go get a snack, and I come back, and my daughter's got the TV off. She's like, "Dad, you left the room. You got to turn the TV off. You're wasting electricity." So, my kids went from not caring at all to caring a lot, and it wasn't through yelling. It was through involving my kids in what the real goal was for the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing that. I'm seeing how I can apply that to my family. It's hard.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to work at it. All right, for number three, we're going to pretend it's the 1970s. Okay. Do the hustle.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had a great interview with a guy that, Bobbi, you know I've had a crush on for a long time, Austin Kleon, who wrote Steal like an Artist, and he's this business person meets artist, and I asked him about side hustles and he said, "You know what? Time away from your job actually informs your job." And he said, "It's when I play guitar that I get great ideas for my business. It's not when I'm in the trenches doing the business. It's when I'm away." He said, "So, I really like side hustles because they kind of inform each other. It keeps you fresh. And, if it's for something small, like I want to pay off this credit card that I screwed up with, or I want to pay for this trip without having it come out of the budget. I want it to be extra, the side hustle can do all of that."

Bobbi Rebell:
Number four, understanding the cube, understanding the cube.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Oh, this is fantastic. I had a mentor tell me this, that whenever you're in a discussion, we all are trying so hard to get whoever we're in this discussion with to understand our point of view, and yet every discussion that we have is a cube. You're sitting, Bobbi, on one side of the cube, and I'm sitting on the other side of the cube, and it's imaginary. My mentor told me, he said, "Whoever sees the other person's side of the cube and looks at it from their point of view, from the other person's point of view, that person will be the first person to really be able to bridge that gap between the two of us." So when you're in any negotiation, and in the book, we talk about it in terms of a salary negotiation, right?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Understand what your boss wants. Your side of the cube is I got a lot of bills. I want more money. Daddy needs new shoes, whatever the thing is, that's what we want, but your boss wants more productivity, wants to understand how they tell their boss to give you a raise. What are you going to do for the department then that you're not doing for them now? Understand the other side. There's a truism that mom has said for a long time, that this goes back to, which is seek first to understand, and then to be understood, and that really is what the cube is all about.

Bobbi Rebell:
This one's a bit of a twist. Custom stickers, as in something Emily wanted. Custom stickers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You pulled for these, man. We get tripped up by credit card debt, and Emily, as a young college student, was like, "You know what? I'm not going for the Frisbee, or the pizza, or the stadium blanket," that they would used to have on campus. As you know, Bobbi, they can't do that anymore. But back in the day, man, a lot of us got in trouble for a free, quote, free Frisbee or a free stadium blanket, and they still offer these things even through the mail now. So, Emily was very proud of herself that she did not get caught up in credit card debt by the usual means.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And then, she got this letter in the mail from a credit card company, and it said that she could get stickers, that she would be able to choose what her credit card looked like on the front, and if you want to get Emily, you just got to offer her stickers, and she's yours. So, Emily ended up in credit card debt, like the rest of us, over custom stickers, which was really to make the bigger point that credit card companies have done so much research on you, and they know what your hot button is, and if they don't, they're going to find it and realize that there's a serious game being played against you when it comes to credit cards. So, you need to play a serious game on your end, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Next, we've got tipsy flying as in two drinks at the airport lounge, two drinks at the airport lounge, Joe, courtesy of American Express?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Two drinks at the... Is this talking about getting the reward cards?

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about the fact that you always get at least two drinks...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when you go to the Amex lounge.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
This is...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you're always a little tipsy on the airplane, Joe, but you got your money's worth. That's the important thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's okay to be a little bit tipsy, as long as you get your money's worth.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Well, no. Actually, the bigger point there was actually that maybe I wrote that wrong, because I didn't want that to be the point. The point, though, was I was a mess with credit cards when I was, like we just talked about with Emily, I was a disaster with credit cards. I had a bunch of credit card debt. I also went for the reward point program when I had no business doing that. I'm paying 25% interest, and I'm thinking, "Yeah, I'm getting these rewards." Well, I'm paying way, way over the amount that I was paying then in interest for the rewards I was getting. I was funding my own quote rewards. Well, now, I'm the opposite.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Now, I have this badass credit card that gets me into the lounges, and I love... It's funny. My son just went to one of the lounges with us. He went as my guest on a flight that we just took, and he's like, "Oh, I've heard about these. I don't really care," and then we went up into the lounge, and 10 minutes in, Bobbi, he's like, "How much did this cost? What is this? Really? I can eat whatever I want over here and..." Yes. You can do all that. You have your own little private area. It's very nice. They take care of you. You're in this calm environment. I now go to the airport, sometimes, 45 minutes early, just so I can have a good meal before my flight, relax a little bit, and to your point, have a couple drinks. But my point is, you play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's stick with the credit card theme here. Beware cancel culture. Beware of cancel culture.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. If you cancel a credit card that's your oldest credit card, that may lower the amount of time that they think that you've had credit. I actually had this horrible credit card from the mid '90s, Bobbi, that I only last year finally canceled. I finally canceled it last year, and it's because I've got plenty other credit. My length of credit's fine without it, so I went ahead and got rid of that. What is interesting, though, because like everybody or like a lot of people, my credit cards also show me my credit score all the time now, which is a cool perk of a lot of cards. When I canceled that card, still went down a couple points. It went from like 820 to 815, and nothing happened, besides the fact that I canceled a credit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wrong.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's stupid.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is what it is. Like a lot of these things, it's wrong. It shouldn't be, but we got to work with what...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... we got to work with.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Know how the game's played.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next up, Einstein-approved.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
There's this phrase that's been attributed to Einstein, which is about compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world. A lot of people say, Einstein said that. Well, Einstein didn't really say that. However, it still made our book because it's so often attributed to him, and we talked about here's this guy who's splitting atoms for fun, doing these crazy things with tweezers and atoms that nobody else can do, and he's bragging, supposedly, about compounding interest, and what is compounding interest? People talk about it different ways.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Here's the way Emily and I talk about it. Your money, when you get interest, it's like your money, Bobbi had a baby, right? And that's interest, but compounding interest is when your money baby has a baby, and then your money grandkid has a baby, and you're in with this $1. You're creating this lineage of compounding interest, so that... I'm as lazy as the next guy, so that I can sit on my butt at home, and I've got my money out there. All my money babies are out there working for me. How great is that? And so, that strategy of building money on your money, that's Einstein-approved.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Last one for the win, analysis paralysis.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Oh, I play board games as you know, Bobbi, and we've got this friend who takes all day to do anything, and it kills the game. That's fine. Killing game nights, okay, but taking so long to make a decision that you miss the opportunity is absolutely horrible, and I have a coach who taught me recently that you should work by the 80% rule, which is if it's 80%, right and the way that you should go, then you got to get moving that way, and I like that because movement, even the wrong movement, teaches you something. If you learn that this was the wrong way to move, it's easy, then, to tweak, right? We'll tweak. We'll either not make the same mistake, or we'll tweak it to be better next time, or we can tweak it this time. Most of the time, movement is not going to hurt you, unless it's second-guessing your strategy. That's the one place where sitting in one place is good, but too many people suffer from... I need more information. I need more information. It's just, I don't want to make a decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true, and so many things just don't happen in life because we just don't act, and I think one thing that I like about Sacked is that it will hopefully inspire lots of people to act. Tell us more about... Wait, I have to say the whole title properly now. We practiced this. Stacked: Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. Did I say it right, Joe?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You did. So when you're pitching the book, I was telling these editors from these different publishing houses. So here's the idea. I'd like to take the Cub Scout Wolf Guide, combined with the Hardy Boys Detective Manual, but make it serious and about money for adults. What do you think? And I thought, they're going to think I'm crazy, and the world's biggest publishing house said, "We're in. That sounds awesome." The book is meant to be very easy at the beginning, because I don't know where you're starting from, but at the end, it goes over some very seriously complex things. We start off with stacking your first Benjamin, and then stacking Benjamins, and then protecting your Benjamins, and then stacking stacks on your stacks of Benjamins. It isn't meant to be read from beginning to end. It's meant to be this guidebook, like I had when I had the Hardy Boys Detective Manual. I'd pick it up and learn how to...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
When my mom touched a doorknob, my brother and I would go over with the tape. Right? We'd make that we got that fingerprint, because you never knew what mom was doing. I wanted people to carry the book around that way. So, it's Stacked. It's out today, which is awesome. We're so excited, and it's available everywhere. Please, if you're going to buy it, buy it from your local bookshop, if at all possible, and we've got lots of links on our site, stackingbenjamins.com/stacked. I'm also going to be going on the road, 42 cities. I'm going to come see Bobbi, and we're going to see different cities. So if you want to follow us and come hang out and nerd out with other like-minded people, see what city is close to you, and come hang out with us in the next three months.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff there to get us set up for the new year. I love the part about Joe making sure to get the most out of those reward cards, because like I talked about in the open, we totally do things that we can get for free, even if we don't actually want them as is often the case with things like free food, or in Joe's case, free alcohol. We just like the idea that it's free, and we don't want to miss that opportunity, even if we don't actually want the thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm curious, what freebies do you guys take, just because they're free and maybe you wouldn't, if you actually were paying for them? Probably a lot, but you kind of feel like you earned it, right? So those kind of things, DM me on Instagram at @BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and I'm going to have some freebies for all of you in the new year, as I get ready to release my book, called Launching Financial Grownups. Get on my newsletter to be the first ones to hear about them. You can sign up by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, Stacked is now out, so get your copy, and get yourself set up for the new year in a really good way. Big thanks to my friend, Joe Saul-Sehy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media. @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and @BobbiRebell on, both, Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Authors, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanJoe Saul-Sehy, Stacked, Stacking Benjamins, Author, Financial Fasting, Electricity Jumanji, Do The Hustle, Understand The Cube, Credit Card Rewards, Cancel Culture, Einstein Approved, God Invest The Queen, Analysis Paralysis, Quick Draw
Money Tips for every single day of 2022 with So Money’s Farnoosh Torabi
Money Tips for every single day of 2022 with So Money’s Farnoosh Torabi
 

Treat yourself to the best grownup advice from podcast favorite Farnoosh Torabi. The So Money host and CNET Editor-at-Large joins Bobbi with a preview of her Page a Day Calendar for the new year- including some surprising advice from GirlBoss Sophia Amoruso.

Money Tips

  • Learn from your mistakes so you don’t repeat them

  • Rethink retirement

  • Envision your goals and be specific


 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is it's also really hard. I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup, either." And, new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code Holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And, thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And, you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. Hard to believe we are in countdown mode to the year 2022. I hope everyone had a good year this part year. Probably better than 2020, right? Anyway, I want everyone to be set up for success and just a really good year. And, what better way than getting advice for each and every day?

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I've been struggling with this past year has been all the damn screen time. I find myself just wanting to be away from all the glowing screens in my life. So, one thing I got recently was my friend Farnoosh Torabi's new page-a-day calendar. I have it right on my nightstand. It is paper, my friends. It is awesome. I do not have to charge it and it doesn't glow at night, it's just there. The added bonus for all of us is that I was able to get Farnoosh on the podcast, to give us all a proper sneak preview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for the few of you who do not know who Farnoosh Torabi is, in addition to putting together this lovely little calendar that I'm looking at as I record this, Farnoosh is a longtime financial journalist, content creator, bestselling author. She is also the host of the So Money Podcast, which is literally one of the most successful money podcasts ever, with more than 18 million downloads. She recently licensed the podcast to CNET, where she is now the editor at large. With that, let's get to this interview. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, welcome back to the podcast. You're a financial grownup.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Am I, Bobbi? Thank you. That means a lot, coming from you. That's official, I'm a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is official, in this year, two years I guess, we're losing count, where we're looking at screens so much. It can be so overwhelming. You are saving us all for the new year, because you have the ultimate product that we all need and that is a literal old school page-a-day calendar. It's called So Money: A year of managing your money, your life and your dreams. And, what I love most about this is that it is a physical product, which is something you haven't done before.

Farnoosh Torabi:
No. I've done books. I haven't done a book in forever. I have another one coming out in 2023. Yikes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But in the meantime, I've got a couple calendars that you can play with. I have this one for 2022, and then I have one for 2023. This is an opportunity to bring what has been a very virtual experience for people, the podcast and then following me on social, in the form of something really tangible. And, that they can gift.

Farnoosh Torabi:
For fans of the show, occasionally they'll write to me and they'll say, "Are you selling a t-shirt or a mug, or something with the words So Money on it? We want to show and express our fandom." I don't have anything in that world. So then, this is it. This calendar is special and it's one of those things where I find that we often need all the inspiration and reinforcement, and this is something that can sit on your desktop, wherever you work, which is probably home now. Or, you can take it with you, gift it. It's handy. And every day, a new piece of wisdom, often derived from the show and the wonderful guests that we've had, or a lot of them are just my own life philosophies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so we can't go through all 365 days, but I wanted to give some people the highlights of the highlights. So we're going to play, I don't know, we could call it Calendar Roulette, but it's not really that. We're just going to flip through and we're going to have Farnoosh randomly pick a page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, stop.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I just stopped, this is not going to be in order, obviously. June 29th, it's a Wednesday. By the way, this calendar will also let you know what day of the week it is, which I don't know, it's been pretty hard to-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it blends. It definitely blends sometimes, in this work-from-home life that we have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
A short while ago, I had on the founder of Girlboss, Sophia Amoruso, who has become a friend. It's just funny how the podcast ... Do you ever become friends with your guests?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
After they come on the show?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
It's not a friend that I ever thought I would have, but when she first came out with the book, which became a New York Times bestseller, I was in awe of her and I tried to get her on the show. She was way too busy for me. And then, I don't know, I just caught her at a good time, she came on the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But at this point, she had experienced a lot of public failure, where-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Isn't there a Netflix show? There was definitely some series about her life, which was awesome.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. It was Charlise Theron produced. Her story is phenomenal. I think she was a college dropout, she was dumpster diving for vintage clothing and all that. And, turned it into an eBay store and earned millions of dollars. And then, turned that into a clothing store called Nasty Gal, and then came up with this Girlboss movement.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Anyhow, Nasty Gal went bankrupt. This was after she was on the cover of Forbes, touted as one of the youngest potential multi-millionaires of our time, self made women. So we talked on the show a lot about that, the ups and the downs, and she was very candid.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So this date, Wednesday the 29th, the title of the wisdom is "Learn From Your Mistakes so That You Don't Repeat Them." It goes on to say that, "Sophia Amoruso is the poster child for a certain type of media backlash. When she started her first business, Nasty Gal, she was a darling of the financial press. Before long, she was routinely being called out for creating less-than-inclusive work environments."

Farnoosh Torabi:
This is true. She got a lot of heat, she almost got canceled.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, a lot of female founders do get.

Farnoosh Torabi:
They get a disproportionate amount of that, for sure.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"The criticism hurt," she told me on my show. "But it was fair," and she took a lot away from it. "It's an important opportunity for everyone to learn," she said, "when they get negative feedback. It doesn't always feel constructive, but there are ways to make it constructive for yourself."

Farnoosh Torabi:
And, there's a lot to say to that. I think for me, what she's really saying there, at least how it's hitting for me, is that in life, there are going to be challenges and you shouldn't be afraid of the feedback. Look, if we were afraid of feedback, would we be doing what we're doing?

Farnoosh Torabi:
It was hard at first, when I was first starting out working in financial news and giving opinions. And of course, with the internet, it's very easy to give feedback. I was getting a lot of nasty feedback, for things that were not even in my control. People didn't like the way I looked, or the way that I sounded, or the fact that they thought I was not qualified. And my boss told me, he said, "Listen, for every negative comment about you that you receive, there's 100 positive comments that weren't created, that weren't reported because people tend to be more negative than positive."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you have a bad experience at a restaurant, you're going to write that review on Yelp. Versus a great experience, you might not. You might tell a friend, but you're not going to publicly put it on Yelp.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Okay, let's do another one.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Okay. Wednesday, September 28th.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Rethink Retirement. The words we use matter."

Farnoosh Torabi:
In this tip I say, "Rather than saving for 'retirement,' which carries potentially negative connotations ... " And also, whose really retiring? Ron Lieber just wrote in the New York Times about the fact that we're all going to have to work longer, let's just face it. Face the music. Now's a good time to rethink your career, if you aren't happy.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So it says, "Rather than saving for retirement, which carries potentially negative connotations, consider saving for your freedom."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know, that's a little scary, too. But okay, go on.

Farnoosh Torabi:
The day in the future when I'll be able to actually call my own shots. This actually, I took this out of the page of NerdWallet's website. But this way, you're not putting away money for a hypothetical life stage you're not sure you'll ever reach. You're saving so that you have flexibility and security when you need it, and that's more enticing.

Farnoosh Torabi:
And if I hard more room, I would probably write that, as you're saving for retirement or whatever you want to call it, to really imagine yourself in that stage of your life. And, actually visualize yourself, what are you doing, what are you wearing, who are you with, where are you hanging out, what does your face look like. They have these studies now, Bobbi-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah, that app.

Farnoosh Torabi:
These simulations where they age you and then they did a test. People who saw their age progressed selves were more likely to save for retirement.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's do one more.

Farnoosh Torabi:
All right, one more. Why don't we do ... What's your birthday?

Bobbi Rebell:
January 3rd.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh!

Bobbi Rebell:
Coming up.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, that takes us right to almost the beginning. Oh, this is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Envision your goals and be specific. The more details an idea you have of what you want to accomplish this year, the better your chances of actually accomplishing it. Rather than aiming to save more, aim to save $5000 in a high yield savings account by year's end. This gives you a target that you can measure your progress against. And as I always say, goals carry price tags."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you want to make that sentence even longer and say, "I'm going to save $5000 in a high yield savings account for my daughter's whatever, college," or even something closer, like her tennis camp. Gosh, I'm not there yet. I don't know what tennis camp costs. But, her braces, let's be more practical.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Just the point is, back to that visualization tip, the more you can make real what it is that you're after, one, the more excited you can get. And, the more motivated and consistently you'll save because it's actually this thing, this tangible thing in front of you, as opposed to this abstract, saving just for saving. Decide your why, and then go and try to achieve the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, it has to be something that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited for the next year, with having this physical calendar on my desk. Because like I said, I'm so excited to have something that's not on a screen, and it can inspire me and give me different things to think about. Even if they're just reminders of things I know I should already be thinking about, reminders are really good and they push you to think about what's important to you. So thank you for this calendar. And by the way, it's super affordable, if you are looking for last minute gifts for the holidays.

Farnoosh Torabi:
We have a discount right now, going on. If you go to workman.com and you use the code So Money, you can get 20% off. And, I have a very special offer for anyone who wants to buy multiple copies. Let's say you want to buy 25 or more for your office friends, for your clients, for your extended family. If you want to do that, get in touch with me, I'll get you even a bigger discount. And, I'll show up virtually, for 15, 20 minutes and chat with your book club, your office mates. I've been doing this, so far. It's been fun to make face time with people. But, I'm offering this only until the end of the year, so you've got to get those purchases in and then we can schedule something in the new year.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, if you're interested in that bulk purchase and having me show up, and talk my mouth off in front of your group, it's farnoosh@somoneypodcast.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made some very big changes in your professional direction in the year 2021. Tell us your latest news and what you're up to for 2022. Oh my gosh, 2022.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So much has changed, I'm very excited. I've gone back to my roots of journalism and working in the media biz. And I've joined CNET as editor at large, and will be helping them launch and grow their money vertical. That means writing for them, doing a lot of media for them. We started a YouTube channel, so you go check out YouTube.com/CNETMoney. A newsletter, and the podcast, they're licensing the podcast which means they're helping me grow that, and we'll be integrating some more CNET content into the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, it's an opportunity for me to grow. I don't know about you, but the last 20 months, career wise, was a tremendous inflection point, for I think me and millions of Americans. I personally wanted to work with a team again and feel like I could make more of an impact. And of course, the show, as I mentioned at the top, I'm so blessed. The people just keep coming, it's millions of downloads. But, it's been a weird time and I feel like money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now, more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Farnoosh Torabi:
CNET's got an incredibly big, engaged audience so it was just a great partnership. And, they're giving me a lot of freedom to grow and try things, things that I would really do on my own. I tried to start a YouTube channel on my own in the pandemic, didn't work. Who knew you couldn't start a YouTube channel, on top of everything else? Raising your kids, teaching them school, going to work, in the same place, 24 hours a day.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm also writing a book, that has nothing and everything to do with money. But, it's really a memoir, big idea, memoir-ish kind of book. Which is a little different for me, because I'm very used to technical writing but it's really making me think and write creatively, about the fears that I grew up with. And, why I don't think that was always such a bad thing. I'm still a very frightened woman, who's very skeptical of a lot of things, but I get stuff done. And, I have to think that there's a connection there, that my fears have actually come out to work in my favor. But at the same time, I think there's also just panic and that's not what we want to have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So the book is really about how to be smart and emotionally intelligent about the fears that you experience, and recognizing what ones are worth paying attention to and what ones we need to kick to the curb. But, this idea that we need to ignore our fears or run away from our fears, I have a different philosophy. I feel like we should really embrace them in some ways, because I think it can help us to get closer to what we define as success and that's different for everybody.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, looking forward to finishing that. As you know, it's hellish when you're in the midst of ... I always like having written and I like going to book parties, but this process is like pulling teeth a little bit. But, it's good for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I can't wait to read it. You're such an inspiration. Thank you so much.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview as much as I did. Farnoosh really is the best. Such a generous, lovely person, I love having her on. We barely got into all of the incredible nuggets of wisdom in her calendar, but I am really into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, she is doing another one for 2023, so it's going to keep going on. The great thing is, like I said, paper, no screen. By the way, it's recycled paper so it is eco-friendly, all the good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do not forget to get that discount code that Farnoosh so generously gave us. It's So Money, when you order it on the Workman Publishing Page. You can also, by the way, get that info on my website, in the show notes. It's just my name, bobbirebell.com. Where like I said, you've got show notes, summarizing every episode. Also, full transcripts all there, just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, big almost end of year thank you to Ashley Wall, our producer who puts that together, all of the show notes, so well. She also puts the quote boards that we use on social media into the show notes, so you can see highlights of the interviews from all of our guests.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, if you're wondering what I'm talking about, I post them also, sometimes on Instagram, but pretty much always on Twitter. I'm going to do more Instagram in the new year, so follow me on Instagram. That is Bobbi Rebell and the number one. And also, on Twitter, that's just my name. It's easier, just Bobbi Rebell. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L. Even though I definitely get tired of the screen time, I am going to be on social media much more in the new year, with a lot of great stuff. DM me if you follow me on either platform, so that I know to follow you back and I know your part of our Grownup community.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, get yourself set up for the new year with the So Money page-a-day calendar. You're going to be really happy you did. It's just really calming and I feel like it's a nice thing to wake up to something inspirational in the morning. So big thanks to my friend, Farnoosh Torabi, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes, to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Authors, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Role Models, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanFarnoosh Torabi, Editor At Large, CNET, So Money, Podcast, Podcast Host, Calendar, Farnoosh Inspiration, Highlight Reel
Is unfollowing your passion the secret to grownup success with author Terri Trespicio
Is unfollowing your passion the secret to grownup success with author Terri Trespicio
 

Feeling unmotivated, indifferent and blah about your career (AKA how you make money)? With the great resignation we’re experiencing you are not alone. Unfollow Your Passion Author Terri Trespicio shares her tips on creating a life that matters to you AND  that can also pay your bills.

Money Tips

  • Get a job, any job, that pays money.

  • Commitments- this is where a lot of people get the wrong idea. 

  • Avoid doing something just because other people say you should.

  • Think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay.

  • Jobs are not all of nothing.

  • Don’t be judgy- especially for yourself.

  • Explore your off label use.

 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But, the truth is it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rather than think about the ideal job. I say, think about the life that you want, because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life, the kind of life you want, then you can do other things, you didn't sell out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. Did you always know what you wanted to do for a living? I kind of did. I wanted to be a journalist pretty early on. And while I have been able to do that, and you'll see why this is important, I have been able to get paid pretty well for it. This week's guest has me thinking, "It might have been okay or even pretty good to have tried out some other stuff first. But in my early twenties, I was in such a rush to follow my passion and turn it into a paying job. I mean, look, there was pressure from parents, from teachers, from friends that were doing this to just get started, to be the grownup right away, lock it in, define who you are. Now, again, to be clear, it's worked out pretty well. But looking back, I kind of wish I had known this week's guest back then and with the wisdom that she has now, since we are peers, but she wasn't so sure about what her passion was and that also worked out pretty well for her.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's going to be interesting for you to hear what she has to say. It's pretty epic stuff. Terri Trespicio gave a TED Talk a few years ago. It has racked up close to 8 million views. And by the time this goes out, it could be even more. It is amazing. It is about unfollowing your passion. And now she has a book by that same name, which follows up on that really landmark talk. I mean this talk, I can't even begin to tell you how much it mattered to so many people. So in my interview with Terri, we get into how her winding path to finding her passion actually led to this aha moment. That that is not what it's all about and most important, how we can all use Terri's experiences to take the pressure off, and find out what we actually want to do or confirm, it's okay. Confirm that we're doing what we want to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good too. But to be clear, sometimes it's okay to have a job that's for money to follow your passion. And so it's okay to just kind of work for the money. I mean, not to be so miserable, but you guys get the idea. Anyway, this interview is going to have you taking action and getting excited about your future. I promise you that. You got to hear it from Terri herself. I'm not as good at explaining this as Terri. So let's get to it. Here is Terri Trespicio.

Bobbi Rebell:
Terri Trespicio, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad that you are here. You are well known for your TED talk. Tell us a little bit about that, and then tell us about the book now following the TED Talk called Unfollow Your Passion.

Terri Trespicio:
The TED Talk I gave in 2015, it's called Stop Searching For Your Passion. I gave it and I thought, great. Whoever was there in the audience saw it. And that's probably the last time anyone will. And I was wrong about that. It took off. The thesis is that the question we ask each other and ourselves, whether we should or have found the one thing we should be doing, is not a helpful question. It is incredibly limiting, and it presumes that we're supposed to know what we're doing, and I'm not convinced that any of us does. And so [crosstalk 00:05:05]-

Bobbi Rebell:
I took issue with it-

Terri Trespicio:
... the world changes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... and that's an important point that you bring up in this book that I'm so happy we finally finally have. Okay. So taking that, the book really expands on the idea of the TED Talk about how we balance this whole notion of passion with look, we do need the practical reality that we have to earn money. And we also want to be happy because we spend a lot of time doing the things that earn us money very often. Not always, some of us are fortunate. We don't have to spend a lot of time, but most of us spend a good deal of time at what we like to refer to as work, or things that bring in money.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes, both those things. And the book picks up where the TED Talk leaves off and goes deeper to question all of the ways in which we have assessed career and meaning, and value, and time, especially now, and people are going, "What am I spending my time on? And is it worth it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved the book, and I pulled some of my favorite grownup tips from it to share. So the first one, which goes to what you were just saying, and you were sort of... It's well, the tip is that you should get a job, any job that pays money when you're sort of lost. And this relates back to you soon after you graduated college, going back to what you just said about all this pressure on finding the one thing. You were sort of stuck because you were doing nothing because it wasn't the one thing.

Terri Trespicio:
I would get offers for jobs, and I would turn them down. Low-paying entry-level jobs. And I said, "I can't do that one. I can't do that one." My mom said, "Why, why?" I said, "Because I don't want to do that for my life." And she said, "But you," I said, "But I'll be trapped. If I take it, I'll be stuck there for life." And I don't know, I don't know. I was really in a bad place. She was like, "Listen to me, you have to take a job, any job, and you will figure it out, but you've got to start." And so finally, when I finally said, "Okay, fine." It wasn't a dream job.

Terri Trespicio:
It wasn't meant to be a dream job. It was an executive assistant job at a management consulting company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I knew nothing of what they talked about. I didn't understand it. They were super brilliant people, went to MIT, I was charged with, "Sit there and answer the phone, and make travel arrangements," and do things I didn't know how to do. You'd say, "Well, why would that be some kind of breakthrough job?" Because I had a place to go, and I had a job, salary, benefits, people who waited for me in the morning and called me by name during the day. And I felt like I had a purpose there, which I did until I left. But If you don't let yourself do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, and it was a grown up job. And that's actually the second point, the second tip that I wanted to talk to you about was just that, commitments. People overthink this idea of commitments that they have to commit to that job forever when that's far from the truth. And by the way, the job is not committing to you, you point out too.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh, definitely not. Commitment does not have to be lifelong. Commitment means you're in it right at that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're very candid in the book. For example, you talk about being laid off, and how it just sort of at the moment was so devastating because you felt committed, and it was apparently a one-sided commitment at that moment.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, let's be real. By the time I got laid off from Martha Stewart, in my mind the writing was on a wall a little bit, because my boss had left. And they brought in a new editor-in-chief of that magazine. And that editor-in-chief didn't know me at all. And I thought, "There goes my connection." It just, I had a feeling, but I was also afraid to leave the full-time job. Well, you can't leave a full-time job when you don't have any something else. But by the time it happened, I remember the day before I got laid off, I said, " You know what's funny. I would imagine there might be a chance I could get laid off."

Terri Trespicio:
And it happened the next day, because they were cutting, cutting, cutting. It just, magazines weren't making Martha all the money. And ultimately the magazine work foreclosed a few months later, so that's it. But I didn't feel betrayed, actually. I said, "I need to leave," but it was almost like, "You're going to have to break up with me because I don't know if I'm going to leave." And then they did. And when I knew that commitment ended, I was a little bit fearful, but I knew then that I had to do something. Again, that prompted me to dig in.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third tip that I want to discuss is that you talk about avoiding doing something just because other people say you should. And you give the example of Michelangelo, which I thought was so genius.

Terri Trespicio:
It came out of the work of fiction about his life by Irving Stone, The Agony and the Ecstasy. And there's a moment when Michelangelo just wants to sculpt. He endures drawing or painting. He doesn't love it. He wants to be a sculptor. And he gets an opportunity [crosstalk 00:09:14] in Lorenzo's sculpture-

Bobbi Rebell:
A paid opportunity.

Terri Trespicio:
... Got paid. [crosstalk 00:09:17] paid for being in the sculpture garden. He was very excited about it. And he's like, "This is so great." It was like the equivalent of being a writer at SNL, except you're doing sculpture from marble. And one of his friends says, "Let's get out of here. What if this garden goes down? What if we don't... No one cares about this. Why are we doing this? It's not at the top of my list." And Michelangelo said, "There is no list. This is all I want to do."

Terri Trespicio:
Now that doesn't mean Michelangelo is right, and his friend would've been the next genius sculptor. It wasn't right for that kid. And I believe they were kids at the time. That kid wanted something steady. He said, "Let's get into something that makes some money, like pork. Maybe he went on to be a pork salesman who knows? But Michelangelo said, "No, this is what I'm doing right now." And he didn't say someday, I'm going to be to... Yeah, he was just like, this is all it. This is it. Now he knew, but there's a proof of my point though, Bobbi, because we don't all grow up craving marble. I didn't, I wasn't like I'm going to do this. That's the rare. Most of us are afraid and wanting to do something that makes money. But the idea that you have to make both the answer, that you have to do what you love and make a fortune doing it, is a lot of pressure.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot of things that focus on being in the right mindset, in your book. So the fourth grownup tip is, think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay, how does being paid make you feel? And I mean, for me, I had a tangent conversation with a friend of mine who had a very high paying job that she didn't love, but she loved the money and she didn't hate the job, but she really liked being paid so much money because it opened up opportunities and she's like, "Yeah, I took the job for the money. And somehow people have trouble with that. But I really liked being paid a high salary."

Terri Trespicio:
But that's the life. Rather than think about the ideal job, I say think about the life that you want. Because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life the kind of life you want, then you can do other things. You didn't sell out. I really hate this idea that you don't have to turn everything you love into a business. First of all, not everyone has to be an entrepreneur, and there's nothing wrong with taking something. You don't win points for being a starving artist. I'm sorry. You just don't. Unless you don't mind someone finding yourself 20 years from now and maybe caring about it, I'd rather enjoy the stuff I'm doing now.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, all right, number five. Jobs are not all or nothing. There's a lot of nuance. We tend to be very literal with jobs.

Terri Trespicio:
This is my problem with the linear thinking around jobs. That were only this job or we're defined by this job. Anyone you can think of who has a job, that that's what they do. I guarantee you, they have lots of other things they love to do too. On one hand, we want the work to inspire us, and we want to be known for doing something wonderful. But who said that the thing you create that's amazing has to be the thing you're getting paid for. I think we don't open up the bandwidth enough to see all of the potential from all the things we can do. This is what I usually say. Bobbi is like, "The world does not owe you a job that suits your dreams and passion." The world does not owe you that it's on you to figure out a way to do something you love that matters to someone else. No one just pays you more because you like it. That is not how it works. It's not how the economy works.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the stories you share in the book that I love is about your sister, who is a very talented singer, but that is not the job for pay that she wanted.

Terri Trespicio:
Right. My sister is an amazing singer. She could have had a chance of making a living as a singer. I don't know that she would've been like Jlo, I just know that she could have made a living singing, and she knew that from an earlier age. And she fought it and said, "No way, no way, no how." And no one understood it. And they still don't. If they hear her sing when she does do for fun. "You're so good. You could have been famous. Why don't you that?"

Terri Trespicio:
And she's like, "Do you understand that if I could have been the most successful you could be as a singer, my life would be singing every day or traveling all the time." She said, "My big goal is to have my own house, to have a couch, to sit on it every night, to watch TV, and have kids and a dog. That is the life I want. You don't get to make a living as a huge recording artist and then never go out and tour or perform." She said, I want to do it when I do it. And if I made singing my life, I would've come to resent it."

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the other themes that you talk about that I really picked up on is don't be judgey, especially of yourself. And I'm referring to, for example, the idea that you were selling jewelry in the suburbs on this MLM, you embraced it, you were good at it. You learned a lot from it. You formed relationships from it. It worked for you at that time.

Terri Trespicio:
I was bad at it at first. And I was like, "Really? I feel weird selling." I was a copywriter. This was not my jam, but I quite frankly needed to earn the money. And I really liked the jewelry. And so I realized liking jewelry, and having a passion for accessorizing does not directly link to a skill in sales. That I had to learn. It was tough, but I was incentivized to learn it. And when I figured out how to make it work for me, it was something I did well at. I didn't do it very long. I think I did this organization for maybe two years, if that, and then I kept those skills in my back pocket. And then when I got laid off and had to work for myself, guess what I pulled out? My skills that I had learned on how to sell. And now I had to sell myself. So nothing is wasted, no job, no opportunity is wasted if you know to take those skills and use them somewhere else to benefit you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right? Because what we're hearing is whether it's the executive assistant job or the job selling jewelry at these parties, these were all things that built up who you are and the skillset that you had. And had you been judgey about them and looked down on them, and not realize the opportunity in them, you would not be where you are today.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh I used to make a joke about earning an MFA in poetry. First of all, it was not a joke. It was a very expensive investment that my family was able to and willing to make for me. So there is a level of privilege right there. You don't need to go get an MFA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you make an argument there of how it would lead to income someday when you were asking them to pay for it?

Terri Trespicio:
I said, "This is what I want to do. I want to be in this program and learn it, and to become better at it. I don't know how it'll directly relate, but it is a Master's degree, and it could really be helpful, and I don't know how. My family is willing to back me on that. Plenty of people wouldn't. And you don't need an MFA to be a writer. However, I used to joke about it later. "Oh, I had an MFA poetry." I was real practical. Well, in fact, today I make my living, a lot of it from writing.

Terri Trespicio:
And what did I do? I apprenticed to study the words, the beats, the lines. I basically consider myself today a corporate poet. I use the skills I studied to create poetry for companies, to make it sing on the page. And that comes from years of study of line beats and forms, and all of that stuff. So I had the weird life that just is uniquely mine, but so did everyone else's. But I hear people dismissing, "Oh, I did that for a while. That was stupid. Oh, I did that. That was dumb." What did you... You learned something. Why would you let it go to waste? There isn't a thing I did that I don't use.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have to look and see if the URL, the corporate poet, is available for you. I feel like that's a good brand for you.

Terri Trespicio:
I don't know if a company wants to invest in a bard.

Bobbi Rebell:
But no, but you call it the corporate poet, which is really what it is. I think that's a very catchy brand-

Terri Trespicio:
You Think?

Bobbi Rebell:
... for someone that does something less. Yes-

Terri Trespicio:
Maybe I'll do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
... I do. The corporate poet. Do it before this airs. All right, the last one. This is my favorite one, because it's just so you. Explore your off label use.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes. This is again taking stock. And I walk people through that in the book. Of all the skills you've learned, no matter if it was paid or unpaid, whether it was what you learned from babysitting or raising your own kids, or running this nonprofit, you don't look at it just by, well, how much did I get paid there? What are the skills that you know? And how can you use them. Off label meaning, yeah, I trained as a poet. So now I know language really well. I also work as a brand advisor, so I know that, but the brand advising work, I can do that for anyone and anything.

Terri Trespicio:
Stop looking at our skills, stop looking at your own skills as tunnel vision, like they only work here. Your whole batch of skills is like a bag of tricks, and you can take it from landscape to landscape. From one group to another. The creativity, everyone's always saying they want to have a creative career, the creativity in a career does not come, whether it's labeled creative. It's how are you using all these different skills to light up different areas of your work and different people? How do you all your different skills help people in ways you might not have thought about? That's the magic. That really, really is.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, and so much great stuff in your book, Unfollow Your Passion, How to Create a Life that Matters to you. And I love on the cover that "to you" is in script and underlined, because that's really the big thing I think that stands out. That it's unique to you and everyone needs to take what matters to them from this book. And there's a lot to take there. Tell us more about the book, what you have planned. I know you're doing a lot of promotion for it. And then how people can get in touch with you and follow you and all the good things.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, the to you, by the way, imagine if it didn't have to you at the bottom, it would just say how to create a life that matters. Who says what matters? That's the key. It doesn't have to matter to anyone else, but you. But people I'll say, more women than men, are concerned that their life isn't serving enough people in enough ways. And as they say, "If you live out what everyone else wants, what are you left with? So my hope for the book is yeah, of course. Yeah. I hope people read it and use it. The thing that I most hope that it will do for people.

Terri Trespicio:
It's not going to tell you what you should pursue in your career. That it's too linear. That's not my job. I would be very arrogant to think I could tell you that, but I would hope that it will open up your thinking and unlock something so that you don't feel chained to one way, one role, one path for being in the world. That is a kind of self-imposed prison. And the sooner we can free ourselves of that and see that we really do get to make things up as we go and our lives can be what we want. The sooner we do that, the freer and the more self-possessed we will be. And isn't that the goal, the goal isn't just happy. The goal is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, where could people be in touch with you?

Terri Trespicio:
Well, they can find me, I'm on all the things. And I'm the only one with my name. So if you look up me up, you will find me, but if you want to learn more about the book it's at unfollowyourpassion.com, because that's easier to remember than my name, but of course you can find me @territrespicio on Instagram, Terri Trespicio, if you Google it, the Google knows how to correct the spelling, no matter how you do it. And I would love to hear from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that part about being a corporate poet. She really is. And that story about her sister's incredible singing talent really hits home. It makes so much sense just because you have a talent that others will pay you for. Doesn't mean you have to go sell that talent for a living, If it's not going to give you the life you want. You want to do something that will give you the life that you want. It's also okay to take a job that you don't love. But of course, obviously you don't want to take a job that you hate, but you love the fact that it pays super well and gives you something that you're really into. It gives you the ability to do things that you can afford to do. Jobs don't have to be for fun. They really can be for the money, after all, companies are paying you to do what they need to get done.

Bobbi Rebell:
They are not paying you to fulfill your dreams. If they work together. Great. But if not, well, seriously you are in the majority. Don't sweat it. Enjoy the regular paycheck and health insurance, and so on. I highly encourage everyone to not just check out Terri's book, Unfollow Your Passion, but also to check out some of her other content, she creates so much great stuff and has all of these workshops and other resources, including, but not limited to by the way, her TED Talk. Invest your time in her teachings. All to be found at unfollowyourpassion.com. And big thanks to the wonderful Terri Trespicio for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grown up. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how can do that first connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our Merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Authors, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanTerri Trespicio, Author, Unfollow Your Passion, Passion
Yay! for Money tips from Meaghan Murphy, author of Your Fully Charged Life (ENCORE)
Yay! for Money tips from Meaghan Murphy, author of Your Fully Charged Life (ENCORE)

Woman’s Day Editor-in-Chief Meaghan Murphy shares how her enthusiasm for things she loves turns into sales.  Plus tips for dealing with toxic bosses at work, why she loves coupons even more than ever, and a preview of her awesome new book "Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay."

 

Meaghan’s Money Tips

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

 
 

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

 
 

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Meaghan Murphy:
I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Time to smile my grownup friends. Money may not buy you happiness, but happiness can get you very far when it comes to making money. This week's guest literally leverages her happiness into success. You can't help but love this woman the minute you meet her, even if it is virtual. Meaghan Murphy is the editor in chief of Women's Day, which is the number one selling magazine on news stands. And one of the hosts of the Off the Gram podcast. She is also the author of the new book, Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
If she sounds familiar that's because you see you're on all the morning shows. Plus all those great shows like Live with Kelly & Ryan. She is a home hack master, a lifestyle and health expert. Oh. And she works out like a pro because yes, one more thing. She is a certified trainer. She also has lots of children and a husband and so much going on. But we got her here on the podcast to talk to us about how to put yay into our life. And of course, some incredible money tips. Here is Meaghan Murphy. Meaghan Murphy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. I love that you're saying yay. That's like your anthem as the author of Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay. A lot of people will look at this book and they'll say like, oh, that's not me. I'm not wired that way. She's so chipper. She just walks around saying, yay. By the way, people can't see you, but you have lightning bolts on your clothing. But honestly, if somebody met you earlier in life, that's not who you were. Give us some context for this because you weren't always the yay person.

Meaghan Murphy:
After some tragic teen years, I did write a very powerful essay that earned me a scholarship and a national TV spot, which ultimately led to an internship at YM Magazine and ultimately springboarded a magazine career. And so in my 20s, when I was working at Cosmopolitan Magazine, I was assigned by my boss to write a story called the seven secrets of happiness. And I completely rolled my eyes because I'm like, who wants to read this crap? But I was the senior editor at Cosmopolitan and this was my assignment when I started to delve into the research and I started to look at the field of positive psychology. And I looked at the work of Martin Seligman who sort of the godfather of positive psychology. And it was the first time that I sort of had this epiphany that happiness wasn't this like bumper sticker, static (beep) thing that you either were or weren't, but it was actually an active state of being, and there were things you can do.

Meaghan Murphy:
There were choices you could make on a daily basis to move the happiness needle. And maybe it might be better and feel better and to live that way. And so I started to dabble in optimism. I started to dabble in living differently. And that's really when the seeds of a fully charged life were planted. And the beautiful thing about prioritizing positivity and sort of actively choosing happiness is that it really started to build and spiral till it becomes easier to do. And it becomes, comes the default, right? And you don't have to work so hard at it. So today, I mean, my friends joke, I'm like a fricking rainbow unicorn. But that's years and years of practice later and kind of rewiring my brain for optimism and joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
That optimism and joy, even though you're not even conscious about it, does translate into so much success in things that are connected to money. So for example, you talk about in the book that you were online at an ice cream store and you were so enthusiastic about a santa cake that you basically became the de facto salesperson for this little ice cream store that was selling ice cream cakes, and you started selling santa cakes for them.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm an evangelist for things I love. If I get excited about something I want everyone else to get excited about. So I probably should have some type of sales career because I would crush it. I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can reach you and your podcast and all your other projects.

Meaghan Murphy:
Sure. So I am on Instagram. I'm pretty busy. Meghan B Murphy, M-E-A-G-H-A-N, B Murphy. I have a podcast called Off the Gram with a bunch of wellness influencers. That's wherever podcasts are not sold, but listened to, I guess. And I'm also the editor in chief of Woman's Day Magazine. So it's a top selling magazine on newsstands. I think we have 18 million readers. So that's a pretty fun thing to pick up too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. That's kind of huge. But yeah, most people would lead with that one, but you have so much going on. I can't thank you enough for stopping by. This is such a gift to our listeners. So thank you so much, Meaghan.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my gosh. I so enjoyed you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, right? She was great. Let's go over some of the tips that we learned from Meaghan. First, be an evangelist for things you love. They will literally sell themselves. If you have a toxic boss at work, do not fall for the bait. Be generous with introductions. Don't worry that there will be less for you. Things work out for those who give proactively and generously. And of course, yay for coupons.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So now I have a question for all of you. What are you happy about these days? What are you celebrating? I am looking forward to a lot of in-person get togethers as things open up. And I'm always looking for the perfect gift, which is one reason I created grownupgear.com. So if you haven't checked it out yet, please take a look. We have the perfect gift for all of those adulting moments that we celebrate from graduations to engagements, bridal showers, new homes, birthdays, all the good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
As a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 gift card to Grownup Gear each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. Can also think of it as financial independence day if that motivates you. There are two ways to enter, take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media and tag me @bobbirebell1. That's on Instagram, I should say. And then also email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter is to write a review on the Money Tips for Financial Grownups Podcast on Apple podcasts. Take a screenshot and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. Grownup Gear is what I like to call a micro business and we really do need and appreciate all of your support. So please check it out and tell your friends. And thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note. I hope you guys smiled a lot listening to this episode. I loved interviewing Meaghan. She's the best. So big thanks to Meaghan Murphy. Don't forget to check out her book for cheering us all on and yay for all of you financial grownups. Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. And Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Authors, Financial Grownup, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMeaghan Murphy, Your Fully Charged Life, Yay
3 Money Tips to Manage Burnout with Career and Life Strategist Elizabeth Koraca
3 Money Tips to Manage Burnout with Career and Life Strategist Elizabeth Koraca

Avoiding burnout is one thing- but what happens when it is happening and you need to find an escape? Career and Life Strategist Elizabeth Koraca shares 3 tips to managing burnout when it is actually happening.

 
Elizabeth Koraca Instagram.png

3 Money Tips To Manage Burnout

  • If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stop and ask yourself what is causing it. Write down what are your biggest pain points.

  • Look at what’s on your plate. Is it overflowing? Chances are if you're feeling overwhelmed you've got too much on your plate.

  • Listen to your body, mind, and emotions. Setting goals, taking action, and scheduling them in a calendar will help you combat overwhelm.

 

Follow Elizabeth!

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much, or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think, what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is, feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. I hope everyone is having a great fall and getting into some kind of a good routine because that is one of the many ways to avoid what we're going to talk about today, which is burnout. And there's a lot talk, by the way, about how to avoid burnout and so many great tips that are already out there. But here's the thing. What do you do if you were already in the burnout phase and you don't know how to even get out of it? This has been happening to me. So as some of you know, this summer, I sort of blocked everything out to finish up my next book, which will be out next spring. All good. People were very understanding. I told everyone get in touch. Early fall, I'm going to have tons of time. In fact, I don't even know what I'm going to do with myself. I'm going to have so much time and I can't wait to hang out with you and to do these work related things, and it's going to be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you can guess what happened. The minute I handed in that book, everything came crashing down. And of course, these are good problems to have because I want to see my friends and I want to take advantage of these great work opportunities, except it all came at me at once and I really wasn't ready. It just was kind of like going from zero to 60 overnight. And I had total overwhelm and very quickly I found myself burned out, especially because, as many of you probably have experienced during this pandemic, we just aren't doing as much. So when you suddenly are in a position where you're being invited to different social events that you want to go to and different work things and just plans to see friends and do different things, it's just so much and I don't know how we did it before.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this to say, I reached out to my friend, career and life coach, Elizabeth Koraca. She had some amazing ideas for me, and this is stuff, honestly, I usually roll my eyes at. But she actually had specific things that we can do. And by the way, I should mention part of the reason that we were we're talking is because she has a new podcast called The Speaking Up podcast, which we will talk about in our interview. Elizabeth, as some of you know, and I used to work together at Reuters, we were both TV anchors. And since leaving, she has become a leader in her field in life and career coaching. You should definitely check out the Speaking Up podcast. But first, I want you to listen to my interview with Elizabeth Koraca. Here she is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Elizabeth Koraca, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here, Bobbi. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Always great to have you on. You are definitely a friend of the podcast. And speaking of podcast, congratulations on your new podcast, The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, thank you so much. It's something I've wanted to do for so many years and really help empower people to speak up for themselves and ask for what they want. So I'm just excited that it's doing really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are rolling out the episodes. I know it's already a top ranked one, so everyone should definitely check out The Speaking Up podcast. We're going to talk about that more in a few minutes. But first, first of all, well, I have to convince we're very good friends. I asked you to come back on the podcast because of something that came up in our own private conversations that I really thought would be something of value for the grown up community, and that is my burnout. There's so many people out there with advice on how to of wait burnout, and that is wonderful and great. However, when you are in burnout, there's a lot less advice, but you have some great strategies. And so thank you for bringing them to us.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Can't wait. I can't wait to get to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and this has been something that's been a big topic for your clients, especially that you've been talking about a lot with your clients in the pandemic. Why do you think, before we get to your tips, why has this been so much worse in the pandemic? When in some ways, I feel like we're doing less. So I feel guilty about feeling burned out when there's actually less to do. And yet, I'm stressed out and burned out, my friend.

Elizabeth Koraca:
How you're feeling is completely normal and natural, and I think everyone needs to know that because during the pandemic, we had a lot of extra pressures and we're still in it. We are still in it. It's not over. We're just trying to live as normal as possible. So we've all had stress of getting COVID, loss of loved ones, quarantining, job loss, new jobs, all of a sudden maybe taking care of family, extended family members, children that's at home. You're homeschooling all of a sudden. All kinds of things we never thought we would have to do, we are adding to our plate that might have already been full.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And yes, many of us parents now have kids going back to school, but we're feeling burned out from the last year and a half as stressed out about what happens if they get sent right back home. So much to talk about. Let's get to the tips that you sent over to me that we're going to go over. First of all, if you're feeling overwhelmed, what should we be doing?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Well, you want to stop, look and listen. Okay? If you're feeling that sense of overwhelm, you want to sit with it? Where is it? Is it in your chest? Is it in your gut? What makes you feel overwhelmed? Okay. And then stop yourself and ask, what is causing it? Write down what your biggest pain points are. Is it financial? Is it the kids? Is it external pressures? Are you not getting along with your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend? You want to really think about all of this and you have to pinpoint what is causing the overwhelm.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And we talked about a lack of control. Sometimes things are happening to us that we never thought about we could not have been prepared about, and yet we have to manage that, and that kind of burns us out.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. Often, what stresses us, and that's what causes the burnout is the stress, we are focusing on things we cannot control. Okay? We cannot control when the pandemic is going to be over, but we can control other things. So you want to focus on what you can control. The feeling of being in control and in charge will help you to avoid burnout. And when you're in burnout, it will help you get out of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number two, look at what is on your plate.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Is it overflowing? Chances are, if you're overwhelmed, you've got too much on your plate. So what can you do? Who can you delegate to? What can you delete from your calendar? Or at least push it to a later date. Okay? All the time. And this happened to me the other day. I just felt like my calendar was just so packed and I had so much going on and I feel like we're even doing more as we're trying to go back to normal after what we've just experienced in the past year and a half. So think about all these things and then take action. What can I take off my plate?

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's hard because we're so conflicted because I have, for example, friends that I am dying to see, I haven't seen it so long, and at the same time, I'm hesitant because I just don't want that calendar to get so crowded because I'm afraid of even exaggerating the burnout that I'm already feeling. And we've gotten used to having more time to ourselves.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. And I feel like what you're really saying is, what are my priorities? Yes, I want to see people and I want to see friends I haven't seen in a long time, but maybe thinking about spacing that out and what feels comfortable for you. So many other people are saying, "I'm not used to doing so much." As we start to try to go back to normal, people are used to being at home and spending a lot of time at home. So thinking about slowly going back into it and not jamming the calendar is really going to help you with that feeling of overwhelm, just to dissipate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number three, listen to your body, mind and emotions.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, yes and yes. And I touched upon that earlier in our conversations. If you don't know you're in overwhelm or you're feeling burnt out, listen to your body. When you're speaking to a certain person, does that give you anxiety? Does that cause overwhelm. When you're doing a certain project or task, does that feel overwhelming? When just the thought of doing something feels overwhelming, you want to stop and ask yourself, "How can I help myself in this moment? Is it setting a goal around this? Is it taking action? Is it asking for help?" It's so important to ask for help when we're feeling like this and to ask for help so we can avoid feeling like this, because it's really important to remember people are not mind readers. They don't know what you're feeling. Even you've got people that have been together for 20 years, they don't always know what you're thinking and feeling. So you have to tell people what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such a good reminder because sometimes we get frustrated because we think people should be able to read our minds, and we have to actually be told by someone like you, "No, they can't read your minds." Believe it or not, no matter how long they've known you, even if they're related to you, they're not mind readers. The other thing we've talked about burnout from, and I experienced this is, I really had a social media burnout. I really enjoy social media. I love posing questions to the grownup community and having people interact and hearing from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this summer when I was in the middle of writing, finishing up writing, I should say, my book, which we'll talk about later, it's coming out in the spring, but I was in the middle of this and I just decided to go cold turkey and I really went off Instagram for more than a month. I miss that interaction. But right now, I also just feel a lot of burnout. What's your advice for people that feel like they have social media burnout? Is it to just cut it cold turkey like I did for a while? Or is there a way to sort of balance things?

Elizabeth Koraca:
It's okay to take a break. If you don't want to be on social every day and posting every day, you don't have to. Go at your own pace. So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself because when we don't write it down, it can cause tornado brain. When that stress and everything else is swirling around in your mind, it feels like a tornado. Okay? That's what often overwhelm feels like.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's a new expression for me, tornado brain. Wow.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, and many of us feel tornado brain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tornado brain. Okay.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to use that. I'm going to tell people I have tornado brain. It needs to stop. Anyway, that's all great advice. People can get more great advice. I'm so impressed. You just started a new podcast, but you actually pumped out quite a few episodes. It's now going to go to only twice a week, but there's a bunch of them already out there. It's called The Speaking Up podcast. And it's really, at this point, it's all you. Although, I'm hoping you'll start doing interviews so I can get in there too. Tell us more about The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. It's a lot of my experience grow up, being very fearful of speaking up for myself, and being afraid of public speaking and fearful, and just being afraid to ask for what I want. And then as you know, of course, as a Reuters television anchor, that all changed when I started my career in television news and I was on air. All of a sudden, I'm thrust into the spotlight and you have to speak up. You have to speak your mind. You need a strategy. You need a career strategy. You need to have a plan. So I share all of these tips and tricks and my top advice in my podcast. And I, of course, Bobbi, I would love to have you on when I start to have guests because right now, it's a solo podcast. But pretty soon, I'll be having people on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am there anytime you want. Where can people be in touch with you in addition to checking out The Speaking Up podcast wherever they listen to podcasts?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Wherever they listen to podcasts and on social media. When you have a unique name like Elizabeth Koraca, you often get your own handle. So my handle is @ElizabethKoraca, and that's K-O-R-A-C-A. And my website, of course, it's full of information and advice on me and my career coaching services. So that's ElizabethKoraca.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Thank you so much for joining me and indulging me because I really needed this advice. And like I said, I really hope that our grownup community benefited as well because I know so many people out there are feeling the burnout. Avoiding it is one thing, but sometimes we can't avoid it and we need to just deal with it and manage it, and these are amazing tips. So thank you so much.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel so much better after talking with Elizabeth. Here are some my big takeaways. First of all, make the effort to actually write down your biggest pain points. I'm usually lazy about this, but I find that when I did it after Elizabeth told me to, it seemed much more manageable just to see the words on the page. Also, be realistic. Is your plate overflowing? Maybe you just have to say no and do less. And you can say, "No," even if you don't have a conflict. You don't have to give an explanation. Sometimes it's better to just say, "I can't do it," and maybe schedule it further out like Elizabeth said. And then finally, listen to your body, your mind and your emotions and get control. Set goals and then this is key for me at least, actually put them in your calendar. And that goes along with the whole idea of writing things down because they just seem less scary and less overwhelming when you write them down rather than just having them all in your head.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the term tornado brain that she used. I hadn't really thought of that, but that's something that I think I have a lot. I hope this helped you. And if you know friends that you think might be feeling this way, please share this episode. I would really love to grow the podcast, which is free to you, but it does cost me to produce. I have a wonderful team and they do get paid. Another way to support the podcast is to write reviews on our Apple podcast or any platform you listen to that has reviews. Please do rate and review. And sometimes, this is so easy, the best way to get the word out is to share a screenshot on social media. It's totally free. It takes just a second, and just tag me if it's on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Twitter, just @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you do so, that's great because I can then thank you. And it's also, it's just really nice for me to see that you guys are out there and you're listening. It means so much when you send me DMs on Instagram or just notes in whatever format you choose. It just means a lot. It means a lot. I also appreciate my dear friend, career and life coach, and the host of the Speaking Up podcast, Elizabeth Koraca. And she did a great job helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and per reduction by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on in Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Career, Financial Grownup, Health + Fitness, Productivity, Role Models, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanElizabeth Koraca, Burnout, Money Tips, Career Coach, Speaking Up, Podcast Host
Money Tips on how to buy an online business with entrepreneur Tonya Rapley
Money Tips on how to buy an online business with entrepreneur Tonya Rapley

Who needs a start-up when you can buy your way into a business? My Fab Finance founder Tonya Rapley shares why and how she decided to buy an online business and her tips on what she would and would not do differently.

Tonya-Rapley-Main-Instagram-Club-Loofah-My-Fab-Finance.png

Money Tips On Buying An Online Business

  • Learn the types of questions you should ask before buying a business.

  • Learn how Tonya increased the average order value and how you can do the same.

  • Learn what kind of things you can do in the beginning to prepare for the growth that comes later.

  • Why it’s so important to have a marketing strategy for your business.



Follow Tonya!


Follow Club Loofah!


Follow My Fab Finance!


Other Important Links

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.






Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Tonya Rapley:
They were taking a significant loss. They were selling these loofahs for 4.99 and doing free shipping. Ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi, friends. Okay, we all know starting a business is not easy, but the truth is you don't have to start a business to be a business owner. There's a whole lot of options out there if you want to buy your way in. But there's a lot you need to know before you get started, and we're going to share some of the secrets that you need to know.

Bobbi Rebell:
My guest today is Tonya Rapley. You may know her as the co-host of one of the shows we featured in our summer watch party, Going From Broke. We were a little obsessed with it. Anyway, it's executive produced by Ashton Kutcher. Check it out on the Crackle channel. Tonya is also the founder of My Fab Finance and the author of The Money Manual. She is a big deal, guys. She's been featured everywhere from Vogue, Good Morning America, and The Today Show. But what you probably don't know is that she's also a holistic wellness business owner. In 2019 Tonya purchased Club Loofah, an inclusive self-care brand focused on inspiring and supporting regenerative practices for all. She mentioned this to me in passing recently, so I roped her into a podcast interview to tell us more about buying a business and basically how it all works. It's really interesting, guys. Here is Tonya Rapley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tonya Rapley, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you. I'm excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to have you. Long time overdue. I loved having you in my book and now here. You are the founder of My Fab Finance, which has an incredible community as well. You're host of Going From Broke, which was one of my favorite shows that I caught up on this summer. We highlighted it in our summer watch series. You have the 30-day shift program. And what we're going to talk about is your new online business, Club Loofah. Welcome, welcome.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you so much. It sounds like I do so many things, and I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many things, and wife and mother and all the things. Before we get into your online business, tell us a little bit about My Fab Finance.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, I mean, My Fab Finance, I started in 2013. It was essentially my accountability partner, as I decided that I was tired of being inconvenienced by being financially insecure. My goal at the time was to improve my credit score so that I could get my own apartment in New York City and hopefully get free clothes from Macy's. I just wanted free clothes. I was like, "Maybe they'll see what I'm doing and send me free clothes."

Bobbi Rebell:
Free clothes, always a noble cause.

Tonya Rapley:
You know, you know. And here we are, I guess. Well, I've been a full-time entrepreneur. I was able to transition into doing My Fab Finance full-time in 2015. We've created so many different elements of My Fab Finance and different iterations, but today our goal is to create a safe space for women to talk about money, as well as we have a mission of helping 1000 people achieve at least one financial goal that they're proud of.

Bobbi Rebell:
When we were doing our interview for my book, which is going to come out in the spring, which, guys, I'll talk about another time, you kind of mentioned, "Oh, by the way, yeah, I bought an online business." And so I wanted to bring you on the podcast, because you mentioned this oh so casually, like, "I'm doing 100 things, and by the way, I bought an online business," and then you move on to something else. I need to know about this. So a lot of people, they're home during this extended version, unfortunately, this extended pandemic that's so much longer than we thought we would be home. Of course it's good to start an online business, but not everyone has to start from scratch. Sometimes if you have the resources you could actually buy something and give yourself a jumpstart. And it sounds like that's what you did. So tell us about this decision to buy an online business and what you did. What is it?

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. So as a financial educator, I realized that a lot of my income was service-based. It was based on my ability to show up to coach my audience and everything else, and I wanted something that was easier to scale. That's how I thought about it before I bought the business, easier to scale. I knew I did not want to come up with a new concept, create a new brand and everything else. And so my sister, who had just closed her Shopify store, asked me... She said, "I know you're interested in potentially purchasing another business. Have you checked out the Shopify exchange?" And I hadn't heard of it, but I went to check it out immediately. And she then sent me this company, Club Loofah. And she just typed, "I think that you could really do something with this. It's a great concept."

Tonya Rapley:
And so I started to look into it more, and I thought to myself, "Wow, this is a really good concept." It is essentially a bath subscription business, a bath tool subscription business, because most people don't realize that you're supposed to replace your loofah every three to four weeks. Your loofah, your sponge, whatever it is you use in a bathroom, before it starts smelling, before it starts crumbling, you're to replace it. So we reached out to the owner, and he was about to actually close the doors, because he hadn't had any bites or anyone that had... He had a few conversations, but no one that was really serious. [inaudible 00:06:09], "Hey, the money's in escrow. Let's do this." So we ended up buying the business from him. He was actually based in Riverside, California at that time. We were living in Los Angeles, so we drove up to Riverside with a U-Haul, got all the inventory that he had on him-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, right, so you actually have to take inventory, because I have-

Tonya Rapley:
It is not drop shipping. Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do drop shipping for my grownup gear.

Tonya Rapley:
It is not drop shipping. We do not have a fulfillment center just right now. And so that's the thing. We got the items from them. We just started learning the e-commerce business when it came to loofahs. When we purchased the company, one of the things that was attractive to me was that it already had subscribers. It was a subscription business. So the day that we purchased the company, they had new orders, because it billed monthly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, why was he selling it? Presumably... I would always be suspicious. If someone's selling a business, you kind of go, "Well, why?" Because maybe if it's a good business, why would he sell it? So I would be wondering, what are the red flags?

Tonya Rapley:
So the reason he was selling it actually was because he inherited the business from the previous owner. So there was a previous owner who started the business for her daughters because she wanted to teach her daughters entrepreneurship. Then her daughters lost interest in it, and she didn't have the capacity to manage it, but he was already onboard as the marketing officer, the chief marketing officer, so he bought it. He believed in the business, thought it was a good company. He took it over. But then his father passed away, and he decided that he didn't want to do things just because anymore. He wanted to live a more purpose-focused life.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I have not seen this site before you, but it has a really nice editorial focus, and that's something that that is one of your strengths. Tell us more about the changes that you then brought in.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. Thank you very much, because when I bought the company, it was very fun and kitschy, and one of the things we realized was, if we're going to compete with the Targets... And we're not going to compete with Target and Amazon. We cannot drive our prices low enough to compete with them, so we have to appeal to a different demographic, someone who value self-care, who is willing to invest in their self-care and what's a higher end feeling product. And so we rebranded to go for a higher end. And so now the products that we're rolling out are more luxury-focused, or they're items that you can't find in your drug store. That was very intentional. And we wanted to clean it up a little bit. The company was based in California, so it was very beachy, Hollister... Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what would you have done differently? Are there questions you would have asked that you would advise people that are looking to buy an online business that's already somewhat established... What should they go in knowing that you wish you knew?

Tonya Rapley:
Absolutely. So when I bought the company, [inaudible 00:08:55], "Okay, it's bringing in revenue. You have XYZ subscribers. Cool. All right. Yeah, let's do this." Now I would definitely ask about their average order value, because the average order value determines if you can run ads. From my perspective, I was thinking, "All right, we're going to buy this company, and we're going to run ads, and we're just going to blow this out the water." But in order for ads to make sense, your average order value needs to be above what your minimum ad spend is going to be, or what it costs to acquire a customer.

Tonya Rapley:
They were taking a significant loss. They were selling these loofahs for 4.99 and doing free shipping. Ridiculous. So one of the things we did when I came in was changed the shipping model. We now charge 2.99 for shipping. And then we also increased the price point on some of the items. We allow the loofah, the classic loofah, to be the loss leader, but we increased the price points on some of the other items and introduced higher-priced items to the store as well, so that average order value and just the opportunity to bundle products... There wasn't really a strong opportunity to bundle products. So now we're in the final stages of developing a body care line so that you can bundle your body care with your loofah, since it's it's all body care anyway. So that's one of the questions I definitely, definitely would have asked, is average order value.

Tonya Rapley:
The retention rate was pretty good. Their retention rate... And that's a question, especially if you're buying a subscription business. How long does your average customer stay around? And do you have any existing customer service infrastructure in place? Because he was handling customer service inquiries. I found very early that I hated that aspect of the business, and we ended up hiring someone, but it would have been nice if there was somebody that came along with the company. So any personnel that would come that know the business outside of us going and doing training with you is another question that I probably would have asked. Those are the two big things we had to change, was... The average order value was a killer early on, because the company was basically losing money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you really didn't know that when you bought it.

Tonya Rapley:
No, I didn't, and I should have asked for stronger financials, but I think that [inaudible 00:10:55] I was like, "It's a subscription business. How bad could it be? It's not to the point where they're searching for customers every month. I bought the customers with the business. How bad could it be?" Yeah, I didn't do the math on that one, Bobbi. I didn't think like, "Okay, this is a 4.99 loofah, and they're charging nothing. Free shipping. How much is shipping?" But we addressed that, and within the first year we increase the average order value I think by like 32%.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do that?

Tonya Rapley:
We introduced a candle line, so most people were buying candles. And our candles are not... They're high-quality soy candles. Our candles were about 20... I think $28 for a candle. And so that definitely drives up, if you're buying a 4.99 loofah and a $28 candle. We introduced two higher end products, the ayate washcloth, and we actually just dropped our Japanese smoothing brush. So those aren't terribly expensive, but they're 10.99 and 11.99. And then we started adding bundle options. So when people checked out, we offer the upsell of a shower hook for people who don't have any hooks in their shower, so we offer that upsell. And then we also invited people to buy our family bundle, which was essentially four loofahs instead of one, just in case it's a family of four, and quite a few people decided to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you mentioned you wanted something that you could scale. Are you still bundling at home? Who is packaging this stuff up? You said you had no fulfillment center.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, so we still have a fulfillment manager. We do have a storage facility where we keep the things, and we have a facility manager, our fulfillment manager. So we are very hands-on still in that process. I don't pack the loofahs anymore, my husband doesn't, but our fulfillment manager does. And she's great. She's awesome. And that's something we had to look at when we were considering if it makes sense for us to place our products in a fulfillment center, which [inaudible 00:12:42] take about $2.80 to $3 per product, and our average order value just could not sustain that yet.

Tonya Rapley:
So maybe when we roll out the body care line... Our body care line is sulfate-free, microbiome friendly, and we've been really intentional about the body cream that we're creating. And we have a non-abrasive exfoliant that we're also rolling out a non-abrasive skin exfoliant, so it's papaya extract and natural fruit extract to help with skin turnover and cell turnover. So I think that once we roll those out, we might be in the zone of being able to send it to a fulfillment center, but maybe not. We have to see how our fulfillment manager feels, because we'll keep those profit margins... We'll grow them as long as we can, and we'll minimize the money that we're spending as much as we can.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am impressed, as someone that started a small online business during the pandemic. The amount of detail that you're going into is incredible. You know all of your numbers. What is your best advice, before we wrap up, for people that are considering buying an online business? You went basically to the Shopify exchange, and you can look for whoever's selling a Shopify site. Is that what you advise? And what else?

Tonya Rapley:
It's work. It's work. And decide what works for you, drop shipping, or whether you're going to do the order fulfillment yourself. But you also have to ask yourself, "Do I have the endurance to grow this?" Because I think a lot of times we hear about these overnight successes when it comes to shop owners. They get placed in Oprah's most favorite things list and everything else. But what happens if it doesn't? What is your marketing strategy? My main advice would be, have a sound marketing strategy for how you're going to acquire customers and keep your customers, because if you don't have customers, you don't have a business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true and such good advice. Okay. We know everyone needs to go to Club Loofah for sure. Where else can people find you and find out more about you and My Fab Finance and the community there? And also you have a 30 day shift program.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. Yeah, because I don't have enough things going on, right, Bobbi?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:14:44]. You need more.

Tonya Rapley:
So I decided to launch a personal coaching company, because a lot of women who didn't fall into the scope of work we do at My Fab Finance but wanted to know more about, "How do I confidently take on my next life phase?" And so I created a program, 30 day shift, for women who are looking to powerfully move into the direction of their next life shift. So that's at my personal platform. It's Tonya, T-O-N-Y-A, .rapley, or tonyarapley.com. If you go to that website, it actually has all of my companies. So it has a link to My Fab Finance. It has the link to Club Loofah. But if you're interested in Club Loofah, that website is actually loofah.club, so L-O-O-F-A-H.club.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that. That's another question though. You got to get the URL there. That's another thing you got to be asking. Wow.

Tonya Rapley:
Clubloofah.com is not available. And one of the things I wanted to do was make sure that we were in it for the long haul before I invested in buying the domain from someone else. Actually, after this interview, we're finally finalizing our trademark application, because the business was not trademarked, or they abandoned their previous trademark, so we're trademarking. So now that we've been in it for almost two years now, I'm in a phase like, "Okay, let's do all the things that we need to do and probably should have done." So I'm going to... Hopefully in the next year clubloofah.com will be ours. I'm like, "Who had a Club Loofah other than us?" I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're just squatting on the name.

Tonya Rapley:
They're squatting, waiting for someone like me to come buy it from them. Because that's a big business too. Think about it. Buying and selling domains is actually a big business.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is a big business. And when I named Grownup Gear Grownup Gear, I looked very carefully at what was available before I named a company. So that's also something to really look at, whether you start a company or buy a company. Look at the domain names that the company owns, because that's really important.

Tonya Rapley:
That is. That is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tonya, thank you so much. Oh, you didn't say your socials.

Tonya Rapley:
Oh. So My Fab Finance, that's M-Y-F-A-Bfinance.com. And then Tonya Rapley, so that's T-O-N-Y-A.rapley. And then Club Loofah is Club Loofah, C-L-U-B L-O-O-F-A-H.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So you have that on social media.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank goodness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank goodness.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, we have that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. Thanks so much.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends, there was a lot there, so much good stuff. I want to remind everyone full transcripts are available. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com. Go to the podcast section. You'll get the show notes and the transcripts.

Bobbi Rebell:
My take here is that whether you're going to start a business or you're going to buy a business, you need to know that it's going to be a lot of work, probably more than you expect, probably lots of surprises, and probably going to cost you a lot more than that purchase price. Yes, Tonya had customers. They were subscription-based. That's all good. But it wasn't a profitable business, and then she had to deal with that. You need a lot of, frankly, capital runway to manage a business when you're dealing with it initially and you don't really know what's coming at you. So make sure you ask all the questions you need to ask and that you're happy with the answers. The good news with buying a business is you do kind of get a headstart. She already had customers. That's great. You start in the middle. You have a concept there. But you also have challenges that were created by someone else, and you may not be aware of all of them, and they come at you a lot faster because you're already sort of in the middle. Make sure you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow or subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, reviews are so appreciated. I read every one, and they mean the world to me. Let me know what topics you want me to cover. DM me. And please follow me also on Instagram at bobbirebell1. And go to my website if you want to get on my newsletter list. Just as I said, bobbirebell.com. Pretty simple, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, support Tonya. She is amazing. Check out Club Loofah. Follow it on all the socials. And, of course, My Fab Finance and Tonya Rapley as well. Say thanks to Tonya for sharing her journey and for helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking out fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Authors, Business, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Health + Fitness, Money, Reality TV stars, Role Models, Startup, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanClub Loofah, My Fab Finance, Tonya Rapley, Startup, Business, Online Business, Marketing, Loofah
Money Tips from Machiavelli to have more power in the workplace with author Stacey Vanek Smith
Money Tips from Machiavelli to have more power in the workplace with author Stacey Vanek Smith

Want to have more power in the workplace? NPR’s Stacey Vanek Smith’s new book Machiavelli for Women takes the lessons from Machiacelli’s The Prince to give some specific and realistic ways to succeed.


Money Tips

Some money tips from the many amazing women Stacey references and interviews in her new book, Machiavelli for Women.


  1. The money tip from Ruth Bader Ginsburg RBG about being interrupted and mansplained while being a Supreme Court justice.

  2. The money tip from Sally Krawcheck on why people were much more open and receptive to an idea when using humor or distancing yourself from a controversial idea.

  3. The money tip from Janet Yellen on why it’s important to create a place where people want to work and why making them feel supported is also so important.

Follow Stacey!


Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.


Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
A lot of the advice is cringy and it does feel backwards. It is disturbing to me to say stuff like, "If you smile more in an interview or bring up a personal or social connection with someone, you're more likely to get what you're negotiating. The negotiation is more likely to be successful." Or, "If you go into a negotiation with an adversarial attitude or you're feeling very assertive, that really could backfire. People will see you as pushy or aggressive. You should go in with a more collaborative, friendly attitude."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends. In the words of our guest this week, a lot of the advice she's going to give is cringy. It is even disturbing and it feels kind of backwards, but the sad truth is that, well, it works. I've been trying it out, and she's right. I am talking about Stacey Vanek Smith. If you listen to public radio, you know her as the superstar journalist from NPR's Planet Money and The Indicator from Planet Money. She is out with a new book, Machiavelli for Women: Defend Your Worth, Grow Your Ambition, and Win in the Workplace. It is a very high concept book. Stacey takes the 500-year-old ideas of Machiavelli and uses them as a reference point for advice for present date women. And guess what? The advice is really not what we usually hear at all. I'll share my thoughts about the book on the other side of the interview, but let's get right into it. Here is Stacey Vanek Smith. Stacey Vanek Smith, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Thanks, Bobbi. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am holding up, even though no one can see it as usual, I always seem to do that,, your new book Machiavelli for Women: Defend Your Worth, Grow Your Ambition, and Win the Workplace. This is a really ambitious book. How did you even come up with this concept of bringing in this 500-year-old manuscript book from Machiavelli that people really associate with male power to this concept to female power?

Stacey Vanek Smith:
To be honest, I kind of backed into the Machiavelli part. This book came about because I was frustrated personally. I've been covering business and economics for about 15 years in public radio, always in public radio. I had been, as part of that job, talking to a lot of economists, talking to a lot of business leaders, talking to CEOs. And so many of them are men. Economics is 75% male. CEOs are 80% male. For Fortune 500 companies, it's 90% male. And then the things like the gender pay gap. Women make about 80 cents on the dollar compared to what men make. That has been stuck for 10 years. At the same time in my own career, I've been reading a lot of advice books and listening to a lot of advice and just being really frustrated with the advice being offered to women. I felt like a lot of it didn't resonate with me.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
I feel like there's a lot of girl power stuff that in my experience has not worked well. And then when I tried to use advice geared towards men, that definitely didn't work well. And I just wanted the truth. I just wanted some real advice. I was like, "Just give it to me straight." My mind just kept going back to Machiavelli. This class I had taken in college, I had read Machiavelli for that class and I hated Machiavelli. I thought he was so cynical and just very basic and obsessed with stupid things I didn't care about like crushing people and power and having... I didn't care about any of that stuff, obviously. I went into public radio. If I cared about money and power, I wouldn't have gotten into public radio. But I started thinking about Machiavelli and I re-read The Prince and all these lights went off in my brain. And that's how the project got started.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of the advice, in your own words, that you give in this book is pretty disturbing. Tell us, what do you see as disturbing in this book?

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Yes, it's really disturbing. People have told me this. They're like, "A lot of the advice is cringy. It feels backwards." A lot of the advice is cringy and it does feel backwards. It is disturbing to me to say stuff like, "If you smile more in an interview or bring up a personal or social connection with someone, you're more likely to get what you're negotiating. The negotiation is more likely to be successful." Or, "If you go into a negotiation with an adversarial attitude or you're feeling very assertive, that really could backfire. People will see you as pushy or aggressive. You should go in with a more collaborative, friendly attitude." That is disturbing to me. But what is way more disturbing to me is that women are twice as likely to live in poverty after age 65 or that 80% of CEOs are men. That women are not getting the funding they need for their companies, so that even though 40% of businesses are started by women, 2% of venture capital goes to women.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
So, women's businesses were far more likely to fail during the pandemic because they just weren't capitalized. The same is true for minorities and the funding for those businesses actually fell last year, which is amazing to me. That is far more disturbing to me. And so a lot of the advice is advice I wish I didn't have to give. I wish that a lot of it we're different, but we are living in an unfair structure. All you have to do is look at the data and you see it. We're living inside of an economy that is not fair. And it is, also, it is a structure that is very powerful. It is a lot. There's a lot of money in our economy. There's a lot of power in our economy. It is changing, but it's changing pretty slowly and in certain ways it's stuck. And if you want to navigate it, I just at least wanted to give people the tools that they needed to navigate it and I wanted to be as honest as I could.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's hard to hear because I know I've been coached to not put, let's say, a little smiley face in an email or to not have these little soft filler sentences in there. But the truth is, you say in the book, that works when coming from a woman.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Oh, yes. The softener. This is super interesting to me, too. So, I've been beating myself up about this for years. Overuse of exclamation points, overuse of emoji, lots of softeners. "Hey, how's it going? I was just wondering if XYZ." And I've been beating myself up about this. Why do I say this all the time? Why do I say things like, "You know, I was just thinking." Why do I say this when I'm introducing an idea? But studies show that men actually are more open to ideas and retain things that women say more when softeners are used. Softeners work. That's why we use them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And it's interesting because, as I said, we have been coached to take those out. In terms of money tips, one thing that I really enjoyed in the book is that you refer to and interview some incredible women. So, I want to go through three of my favorites. So, the first one that you reference is RBG, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, with some mansplaining and interrupting that famously went on with someone that actually was before her. I mean, she was in the position of power and yet this was happening. Tell us about that and how she dealt with it and what people can take away from that.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
This is one of the most amazing anecdotes in the book. It came from a study that came out a few years ago that looked at Supreme Court transcripts to study interruptions. And what they found was that female justices on the Supreme Court got interrupted three times more often than male justices, even though they spoke less and used fewer words when they did speak. What was even more shocking was that the lawyers arguing cases before the Supreme Court were also interrupting female justices, even though they are not allowed to interrupt justices. They would just jump in and interrupt female justices quite frequently, including Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And as someone who has really struggled to be heard...

Stacey Vanek Smith:
I'm in media so it's a lot of pitch meetings, ideas meetings. I've had my ideas stolen a million times. I've been talked over, interrupted, people forget I said things all the time. I mean, this is something that's definitely happened to me in my career in life. And I felt so relieved. Just like, "This happens to Ruth Bader Ginsburg?" I thought I was just messing up. But no, if it's happening to Ruth Bader Ginsburg, I think you can assume that it happens to literally everyone. It's just most of us don't have as much power as Ruth Bader Ginsburg had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another incredible woman that you did talk to in the book is Sallie Krawcheck. She's featured pretty prominently throughout the book. There's some things that you reveal in the book and I'm going to just leave it to people. I'm going to tell people it's on page 85. So, you can go to the book and look it up when you buy the book. You can learn about some of the truly offensive things that I don't even want to go there on this podcast. What's the Machiavellian lesson that we learn from her? She has a great sense of humor.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
She has a great sense of humor, and she's so honest and she sees so clearly. It was such a privilege to talk with her because when I asked questions, she never couched anything. She was just completely direct and honest. I learned a lot of things from her. One of my favorite lessons from Sallie was she said, "A lesson I think people don't get enough is that this is not your fault." She's like, "It ends up kind of falling on women and marginalized workers to deal with an unfair workplace. But the fact the workplace is unfair is not your fault. And the fact that it's falling on you to deal with it is really unfair." There was a lot of relief in that because, I mean, all the time and energy we spend strategizing to get paid more, to get promoted more quickly, or to get promoted at an equal level as our white male colleagues with hair, that's time we could be spending on other things, on life or Netflix or coming up with brilliant ideas or playing with our kids.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Instead, we have to spend it doing things like reading articles on how to get more out of your negotiation, trying to figure out why you're underpaid and things like that. My other favorite pieces of advice from Sallie Krawcheck had to do with leadership. Of course, she was working in the super male world of Wall Street, super male world of Wall Street, and trying to give orders to people who did not necessarily want to take direction from a woman, were not excited about that. Two things she said she would do. One, she used humor. Humor as a softener, actually. She would use humor and make jokes. And she said, "It's really hard for people to hate you if they're laughing with you," which I thought was pretty brilliant.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
And the other thing she would do is distance herself from her ideas. And I've started using this and it's amazing how well it works. So, I mean, if she felt very strongly like, "We need to go in direction B," she would just say, "You know, I was just thinking, I'm not sure I believe this, but why don't we try direction B and just see how that works out?" And she said people were much more open and receptive than they were if she came guns blazing out of the gate, "I feel strongly we need to go in direction B."

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to the third woman that I want to highlight, which is Janet Yellen. So, former Fed chair, treasury secretary. You titled her section, The Power of Preparation and Pulling Up Your Socks. Tell us more about her style because she really took a feminine approach to managing an office. Again, very male environment at the Fed.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Janet Yellen told me that she did not think managing people was hard. She was like, "You just tell people that you value their work, you support them in their work, and you make sure they feel valued." And I was like, "Oh, well, yeah." But I think part of the reason Janet Yellen has gotten so much support is because that is what she gives people. She gives people support. She thinks about what will make them happy, what will motivate them. And I mean, it's very simple, but I mean, not all managers do that. I would say almost no managers do that. It's really rare. And the fact she just said, "Oh, managing people isn't hard," was hilarious to me, but I think she comes by it honestly. I think she just cares about the work and respects the people doing the work and conveys that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that represents one of the common themes in the book, which is that you have to be very practical. You can be idealistic and say, "I don't want to be the woman that gets my ideas heard because I have a sense of humor and make people laugh or present them in a softer way," as with Sallie Krawcheck, or with Janet Yellen talking about, "I just want to have a place where people want to work." But perception and what we want to be isn't always the practical solution. And I love that this book has a lot of very specific and practical ideas for the readers. It also has a lot of you in it. It's very personal. You reveal a lot that I did not know. I've listened to your work for as long as I could remember. Tell us, why did you get so personal? Because you do reveal a lot of vulnerable moments in your life.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Yes. That was a conscious choice simply because, for me reading books about career advice, the advice always seems to be given a little bit from on high, like from an expert, and it makes it very hard to connect with people. So, I wanted to be very honest about where I was coming from. I'm like, "Listen, I don't like negotiating. Historically, I've been abysmally terrible at it. I have not had success in negotiation. I've avoided them studiously, for years often." I wanted to be honest about where I was coming from, because that is honestly where I was coming from. I have a lot of these issues I was exploring for myself. I didn't know what I would find. I didn't know what the research would show. I didn't know what people would say. But I wanted to be honest about my own experiences, the good and the bad, just so that people would understand that I've also been through this, too, some of these things.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
I wanted to be honest about the experiences that I had had in the hopes that it would make people who are maybe frustrated feel less alone. And also that they would know that it wasn't just like, "Oh, well I have had this transplendent career with no moments of self-doubt and I've just gone from peak to peak and it's been amazing, but I understand some of you people are having trouble, so here's my advice." I wanted to be totally honest about some of the experiences and some of the hardest experiences in my career. I thought that vulnerability was important.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I agree. And I think that it really works for the book and I think it's going to be very appreciated by the readers. And I know it certainly really hit home with me because I put you on a pedestal and hearing that there were times that really sucked in your career and knowing that, I think, makes you so much more relatable. It makes the book so much more relatable, and I really think it is appreciated. Stacey Vanek Smith, this has been so wonderful. Tell us more. We know the book is going to be everywhere. Where can people reach you? Besides, of course, hosting. We didn't even say. You host The Indicator.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
I host the podcast, The Indicator from Planet Money. There's my website, which is staceyvaneksmith.com. I wasn't very creative in the naming of it, but you can contact me through that site. I'm also on Twitter @svaneksmith, V-A-N-E-K Smith. Or Facebook, or I'm also on LinkedIn. So, you can message me any of those ways. And oh, I'm also on Instagram. All the social media things, or you can just email me through my website.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Stacey Vanek Smith:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. It was such a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, a brief recap. You were warned. The advice is, yeah, I think you guys all agree with me, it's pretty cringy. But it works. And we have proof now because we talked about three women in our interview, and if you go through the book, there's a lot more real life examples of exactly how, well, kind of messed up it is, but better to know than to be ignorant. And we learned that even some of the most remarkable women, we talked about RBG, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sallie Krawcheck, and Janet Yellen, they've had to use these Machiavellian principles to manage their careers. And yes, even all-star journalists like Stacey Vanek Smith have had major career setbacks by doing what we're kind of told to do even though, as we know, it's not what works. The hardest part about this interview was actually having to end it because there is so much we did not get to, but it's all in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so I hope you guys are going to step up and challenge yourself and pick up a copy. So, this book, maybe it feels a little intimidating when you first see it. Trust me, it is worth the effort. And once you get into it, you're not going to be able to put it down. Settle in. Read it this fall. Most of the books here, I talk about being a quick read, page-turners and so on. And there are times when I meant to put down the book and it was the end of a chapter and I said, "Oh, I'm going go and make dinner and do something else," but then I read just a few more pages and got back into it. But honestly, this is a book to savor and really let the concepts settle in and sometimes flip back and reread a little section to make sure that you really get the point and can apply it to what's going on in your life. It's worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends. This podcast, it's free and that's wonderful. I put so much effort into it and I want to spread the word. I want to grow my audience and I need your help. Please share it with your friends, post on social media, and if you're not already, please do follow or subscribe depending on what podcast platform you listen to. They use different words these days. I think you know what I mean. We want to make sure that you get the podcasts on a regular basis. And by the way, if that platform is Apple or any other platform that allows reviews, please leave a review. I read them all and I truly appreciate all of your support. I also appreciate the fabulous Stacey Vanek Smith, author of Machiavelli for Women, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley [Wall 00:19:14]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Authors, Career, Financial Grownup, Money, Women Role Models, Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMachiavelli, Machiavelli for Women, Author, Stacey Vanek Smith, Podcast Host, The Indicator, Planet Money, Money Tips
Summer Watch Party: Million Dollar Listing New York with special guest co-hosts Paulette Perhach and Erin Lowry.
Summer Watch Party: Million Dollar Listing New York with special guest co-hosts Paulette Perhach and Erin Lowry.

Bobbi and her guests reveal their connections to MDLNY and share exclusive insider secrets and money lessons learned from the Bravo reality tv series focused on high end New York Real Estate agents in the final installment of the financial grownup summer watch party series. 

Summer-Watch-Party-Million-Dollar-Listing-Instagram-with-Erin-Lowry-and-Paulette-Perhach.png

A Little About The Show

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.



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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Paulette Perhach:
You want to be this successful? You want to be at this level? This is what it takes. And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup."

Erin Lowry:
Anytime any of them are in those "self-care moments", they always take calls. They are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome friends to the fifth and final installment of our 2021 Financial Grown-up Summer Watch Party series. Having spent so much time at home in the past year and a half, one thing I've done with my time is, well, watch a ton of TV. And in that time, I have discovered there are a lot of streaming TV gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So I decided to bring on some friends, and discuss and have this summer watch party. So far, we have covered the Ashton Kutcher produced Going From Broke, which is on Crackle. Now I had not known of this network really before, but it is free, so definitely download Crackle or whatever, get to Crackle however you do, on your TV, and check out Going From Broke. It literally had me crying because the people that they have on this show were so good hearted, so well-meaning, and such interesting stories.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's just really well produced. We also talked about the new Netflix series, My Unorthodox Life, featuring entrepreneur Julia Haart, and her family and friends and coworkers. I think this family maybe the next Kardashians, but there was a lot of controversy about the show in the news because of how they presented their former life. There is a lot out there to this. Google it, just trust me. And then also obviously listened to our episode about it, and watch the show, but Google it for the controversy. In our third week of our little Summer Watch series, we got into it with some definite disagreements about whether the money lessons were good lessons, or bad lessons on the Netflix series, Marriage or Mortgage. My co-host, Andy Hill, held his own and we ended up agreeing to disagree. And then last week my husband came on the podcast to discuss and share his take on Jim Belushi's cannabis farm reality TV show on discovery, Growing Belushi, where his family actually had an intervention talking about concerns that the business was taking over his life and he didn't know what he was doing, which is kind of true. If you watch the show, you'll have to see.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sadly though, also we may have been witnessing some of the feelings that led to the recent announcement that Jim Belushi and his wife of 23 years, Jennifer, are splitting up. So we're very sad, and it's interesting. It makes the show all the more compelling to really look at what's going on behind the scenes as, yes, it's a cannabis farm and that's interesting in and of itself, but this is also someone starting a new family business and how it's impacting all of them. All of this to say it's been a great series, and if you have not listened so far, I highly recommend that you check out those episodes. This week, we have a really special show with a take on a show, a reality TV show that I can promise you, you will not hear anywhere else.

Bobbi Rebell:
We cannot possibly do a reality TV series without including a Bravo show, because who really does it better than Bravo, right? So we are going to be discussing Million Dollar Listing New York, MDLNY for the super fans. This is going to be next level because of my guests, and the exclusive information and insights that they bring to the table. Okay. First we have friend of the podcast, Ms. Paulette Perhach. Very famous writer in her own right, here to so many of us because of her F-U fund. But she also has a unique connection to the show that we will share in a moment. And we also have bestselling author, Erin Lowry, also a friend of the podcast, known for her trifecta of books in the Broke Millennial series and so much more, those introductions by the way, ladies do not do justice to all of your accomplishments, but in the interest of keeping the podcast a reasonable length, we will leave it there. Welcome.

Paulette Perhach:
Thanks for having us. I haven't heard trifecta yet. I'm going to start stealing that now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trifecta. You did.

Paulette Perhach:
I know I did. I just had never thought... I keep saying three-part I'm like, "Ugh, trifecta so much better. Why didn't I wordsmith that?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That? Yeah. A triptych of financial wisdom.

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's just too advanced. Get your $2 words out of here.

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:05:36] to the art world.

Erin Lowry:
We all come from the art world. Give you a triptych.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.

Erin Lowry:
The Bravo editors are unmatched, in my opinion, in terms of editing reality content. To a dash, Netflix is starting to do some really solid reality content, but Bravo really created the mold that everyone is just trying to match at this point.

Bobbi Rebell:
Agreed. All right. Thank you so much, Paulette, where can people catch up with you?

Paulette Perhach:
You can follow me on Twitter at @pauletperhach And I also blog about storytelling and writing and business at welcometothewriterslife.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And you also, by the way, have a growing business supporting writers.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. So I'm a writing coach and working on creating a program called the PMSA, the profitable MFA, where I help writers lead a profitable and satisfying writer's life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good stuff, Erin, my friend, what are you up to these days? And where can people be in touch with you?

Erin Lowry:
You can find me most actively on Instagram @brokemillennialblog on Twitter @brokemillennial. The website is brokemillennial.com. The books, all three of them are available. Wherever books are sold and also hopefully your local library.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely your local library. We're all an advocate for borrowing books and supporting your library. And by the way, that doesn't mean you can't tell your library to buy the books of your favorite author and in that way financially support your favorite author. That was my PSA. All right. Thanks everyone for listening. Do not forget if you enjoy the show too. Please tell your friends and share on social and tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
For show notes, a full transcript of this show add more, go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and just look for the podcast dropdown menu. Thank you for listening everyone. And thank you, Erin Lowry, Paulette Perhach for helping us all be Financial Grown Up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well, you can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grown-ups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

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Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Investing, Money, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMDLNY, Million Dollar Listing New York, Paulette Perhach, Erin Lowry, Broke Millennial, Summer Watch Party, Summer Watch Series, real estate
5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness and improve your mental health with Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money
5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness and improve your mental health with Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money

Do you track your “Happy Spends” against your “Sad Spends”? Dr. Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money will have you doing that and more with her money mental wellness tips. Don’t you feel better already?

Dr-Elizabeth-Dunn-Main-Instagram-Author-Happy-Money.png

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn’s 5 Money Tips to achieve financial wellness

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I spend my day-to-day work life thinking about what makes people happy and how we can make people happier. In particular, I've been really interested in how we can harness money as a tool to increase our happiness. I think the sort of overarching idea that I've been arguing throughout my career is that how much money we have actually matters less than what it is we do with it. So making more careful choices around not just how we invest our money, how we save our money-- which we think so much about-- but also how we spend our money. Can we spend it in ways that genuinely make us happier, rather than just sort of squandering it on the things that daily life tempts us with? All the things we see in sort of advertisements, things we see other people buying. Instead, can we chart our own path and find the kinds of purchases that really fill us with happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is such a great concept and one that I should mention you do cover in your book, Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending. All right, let's get to your five tips for financial wellness. Now some of these might sound familiar, but the way that you present them is going to really resonate I think, with our audience, because you also have the data to back them up and I think that's going to really motivate a lot of us to put these into action in our lives. Okay. The first one is normalize talking about money, which we hear a lot, but you've got a different spin on it.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. This really comes from our research at Happy Money where we've seen that people in debt especially really want a chance to hear from other people that have been through that journey too. They want to know how did you get through this? How did you pay off your debt? What challenges did you overcome? We're used to talking about money maybe on the brighter side of investments and savings and so forth, but I think it's really important that we start sharing our financial lows along with our financial highs just to normalize talking about money and just taking away some of the stigma that surrounds debt. We really encourage people to talk about and think about what it is that a rich life means to them. So I would argue that rich really is not about what's in your bank account. It's about what makes you happy and fulfilled in meaningful and sustainable ways. One thing we see is that over and above how much income people earn, it really matters how they think about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your second money tip is to treat money as a tool, but again, you are reframing the conversation here.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. So I think very often, people treat money as an end in itself. So much of financial planning, for example, surrounds how to get more money. So if we shift the conversation to be about how to get more happiness, then we start thinking of money not as an end in itself, but as a tool, kind of pathway for getting to happiness. We do know that people who have more money tend to be happier than those who have less, but this is mainly because those people with more money tend to be more able to meet their expenses and stay out of debt. In reality, the amount of money that you have really matters less than what you do with it and the key here is figuring out how to use money as a tool to boost your mental health and happiness.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This holds true whether you have a little money or a lot of money. In some of our recent data, we're seeing just how consistently these ideas hold up across the whole spectrum of income. For example, we know from research that people tend to get more satisfaction from buying time. For example, buying some help with childcare or a meal delivery service can really pay dividends in terms of life satisfaction. And from our latest data from Happy Money, we're actually seeing that this relationship holds true again, even for people who are living paycheck to paycheck, kind of struggling to make ends meet.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
It's quite a consistent principal and even more consistent, we see that people who give, who use their money to benefit others, tend to experience greater happiness. This is what we see, remarkably, even for people below the poverty line. This relationship holds true all the way across the income spectrum. At the end of the day, that's really why we created Happy Money, which is to help people use their money in ways that support their wellbeing and happiness and also allow them to build healthier and more mindful habits more broadly around their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because some of the examples you just gave like ordering in dinner are things that we generally think of as splurges and things that we can cut out when we're trying to get control of our budgets, but we shouldn't maybe make those assumptions.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's exactly right. In our research, we see that many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress, a lot of time stress... Buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has this changed during the pandemic? Do you have any data on that? I'm curious.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. We're just beginning to fully explore this question of how these principles might've been altered through the pandemic. But I think a particularly interesting one to focus on at this stage of the pandemic is giving, because we know that many people did not give as much money as they usually would to charity during the pandemic. Many charities are really hurting right now, and so as we kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel and maybe experience some gratitude over having made it this far and still being alive, still kind of being okay. I think this is a wonderful time to pay it forward.

Elizabeth-Dunn-Twitter-Quote-#3-Author-Happy-Money.png

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's move on to the third one. I think this is my favorite one. Track your happy spends versus sad spends.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. So I always tell people to track what you spend and how it makes you feel. So people are used to tracking their spending to try to restrain their spending or know how much they've got, but I say add on how it makes you feel so you can actually decide what's worth it to you and what's not. So really pay attention to how these purchases affect your mood and then you can start to identify what I call happy spends, these spends that really make you happy. And sad spends, maybe things that used to make you happy but aren't really paying off in terms of your happiness anymore.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This is going to help you ask yourself what actually brings you real joy and what do you regret by the next day? I would argue that when you shift your spending toward what makes you truly happy... That might be paying off debt, or savoring a treat, helping a friend donating to charity. That can enable you to make better, happier decisions around your own wellbeing and it's also a great opportunity to start thinking about investing in your future self. What are the purchases that make you happy when you first acquire them, but also still continue to provide happiness dividends going forward. I think that's a really fascinating issue. Helping people gain better self insight into what makes them happy starts with just paying attention in the moment to what's providing you joy and what's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was so glad to see this next one on the list because it really resonates with so many of us coming out of this pandemic. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis for me on celebrate along the way, because we really don't know what's going to happen.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. I mean, this experience of the past year has really made me appreciate the value of just celebrating what's good in the moment. So, I recommend when people are tackling a big financial challenge or big life challenge, start with small manageable changes. Achievable changes. And then do take the time to celebrate those little milestones along the way. So it isn't necessarily about just achieving your final goal and that's the only time you should celebrate. Celebrate each piece of it. So break your big goals into more bite sized pieces and these small steps are going to be a lot easier to form into sticky sorts of habits. Just to give some examples, you could start with little changes like saving $10 a week, or maybe giving $15 to a charitable organization that needs your support, or try putting an extra $50 a month toward your credit card debt.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
These are potentially more achievable changes that over time can actually have a really big impact on your overall happiness. So what we've seen in our data at Happy Money is that even building up a little bit of savings can go a long way in terms of people's life satisfaction. So we see that people with just $400 in emergency savings reported over 13% higher levels of life satisfaction compared to people who didn't have that cushion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're removing that anxiety, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I think that's a huge part of it. So we see that when people have savings, it kind of acts as this cushion that protects them from some of the shocks of unexpected events in daily life and can also just reassure people that they're going to be a little bit insulated. I think that's one of the big lessons for me from the pandemic because we just don't know what the future holds. Save up some money now so you're ready for whatever surprises the future might have in store.

Elizabeth-Dunn-Twitter-Quote-#1-Author-Happy-Money.png

Bobbi Rebell:
And this last one, I think, is just so essential and I hope that people take the time and really take it seriously. And that is to take the time to deal with your feelings around money... Because we often get so caught up in life's day-to-day, we never stop and kind of examine how we're approaching money.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. And I think this is probably the most important tip. That we focus so much on the sort of objective financial challenges surrounding money itself but we have to also deal with the feelings that are hovering around those challenges. So thinking about this, we decided last year to introduce a new money, mindfulness and stress reduction program that we call Peace. Like peace and love. This free course is really neat because it incorporates cognitive behavioral therapy and psychology to help people understand and reduce the impact that financial stress is having on their lives. The fact that it's completely free was super important to me. This is something we are giving away to just help people deal with the financial stress that the past year has created.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
What we did was really to try to think about how could busy people fit this into their lives? As somebody who's got a full-time job and a kid I thought, 'Could I make this work even for me?' Each exercise is really broken down into these small digestible bites and everything is personalized to the individual and really designed to build skills for addressing stress levels. And going beyond just combating stress, we also wanted to think about the positive sides. So we've got a whole week that's devoted to just helping people promote more positive thoughts and actions. To learn how to amplify their positive emotions and get more joy out of the tiny pleasures of daily life like sitting in the sunshine or eating a piece of chocolate.



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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grown-up for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
In our research, we see that people, many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress-- a lot of time stress-- buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being grown up is hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends! I hope everyone is having fun this summer and feeling healthy and most of all, feeling happier these days. A lot of things affect our moods. I know for me, I always feel better when the weather is good and there is scientific evidence that for some people, including me, sunshine and warmth really does have an impact on our moods. There's also evidence that what's going on with our money can have a measurable impact, a scientifically measurable impact on our mood and yes, our happiness. So, okay. For most of us, it doesn't take a scientific survey or research or whatever to tell us that if we're worried about money, we're not happy. But stick with me friends, because if we understand the science, we can then take it to the next level and implement real strategies to boost our financial wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for example, a lot of the time, things like meal delivery plans are framed as something that maybe we should feel a little guilty about. We see it as a splurge, a luxury, and certainly discretionary when we're having budgeting discussions. But here's the thing. Apparently, things that buy us time are scientifically proven to be good for our mental health and could actually be one of the best uses of our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I found the perfect guest to tell us more about all of that and also to teach us how we can incorporate good money habits that lead to happiness into our lives. Dr. Elizabeth Dunn is a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of British Columbia and the Chief Science Officer at Happy Money, a Los Angeles based FinTech company. Now Dunn is also the author of Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending which she co authored with Michael Norton of Harvard Business School. Dr. Dunn conducts experimental research on happiness, exploring how people can optimize their use of time, money and technology to promote well-being. Her TED 2019 Talk on generosity and happiness, has been viewed over 3 million times and was selected by TED as one of the top 10 Talks of that year 2019. She is amazing and we are in for a treat. Here is Dr. Elizabeth Dunn. Dr. Elizabeth Dunn, you are a financial grownup. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, okay. Before we get to... You're going to be talking about five tips for financial wellness and improving our mental health, especially as it relates to money. I have to ask you, you call yourself a happiness researcher. Tell us about that.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Well, I spend my day-to-day work life thinking about what makes people happy and how we can make people happier. In particular, I've been really interested in how we can harness money as a tool to increase our happiness. I think the sort of overarching idea that I've been arguing throughout my career is that how much money we have actually matters less than what it is we do with it. So making more careful choices around not just how we invest our money, how we save our money-- which we think so much about-- but also how we spend our money. Can we spend it in ways that genuinely make us happier, rather than just sort of squandering it on the things that daily life tempts us with? All the things we see in sort of advertisements, things we see other people buying. Instead, can we chart our own path and find the kinds of purchases that really fill us with happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is such a great concept and one that I should mention you do cover in your book, Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending. All right, let's get to your five tips for financial wellness. Now some of these might sound familiar, but the way that you present them is going to really resonate I think, with our audience, because you also have the data to back them up and I think that's going to really motivate a lot of us to put these into action in our lives. Okay. The first one is normalize talking about money, which we hear a lot, but you've got a different spin on it.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. This really comes from our research at Happy Money where we've seen that people in debt especially really want a chance to hear from other people that have been through that journey too. They want to know how did you get through this? How did you pay off your debt? What challenges did you overcome? We're used to talking about money maybe on the brighter side of investments and savings and so forth, but I think it's really important that we start sharing our financial lows along with our financial highs just to normalize talking about money and just taking away some of the stigma that surrounds debt. We really encourage people to talk about and think about what it is that a rich life means to them. So I would argue that rich really is not about what's in your bank account. It's about what makes you happy and fulfilled in meaningful and sustainable ways. One thing we see is that over and above how much income people earn, it really matters how they think about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your second money tip is to treat money as a tool, but again, you are reframing the conversation here.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Right. So I think very often, people treat money as an end in itself. So much of financial planning, for example, surrounds how to get more money. So if we shift the conversation to be about how to get more happiness, then we start thinking of money not as an end in itself, but as a tool, kind of pathway for getting to happiness. We do know that people who have more money tend to be happier than those who have less, but this is mainly because those people with more money tend to be more able to meet their expenses and stay out of debt. In reality, the amount of money that you have really matters less than what you do with it and the key here is figuring out how to use money as a tool to boost your mental health and happiness.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This holds true whether you have a little money or a lot of money. In some of our recent data, we're seeing just how consistently these ideas hold up across the whole spectrum of income. For example, we know from research that people tend to get more satisfaction from buying time. For example, buying some help with childcare or a meal delivery service can really pay dividends in terms of life satisfaction. And from our latest data from Happy Money, we're actually seeing that this relationship holds true again, even for people who are living paycheck to paycheck, kind of struggling to make ends meet.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
It's quite a consistent principal and even more consistent, we see that people who give, who use their money to benefit others, tend to experience greater happiness. This is what we see, remarkably, even for people below the poverty line. This relationship holds true all the way across the income spectrum. At the end of the day, that's really why we created Happy Money, which is to help people use their money in ways that support their wellbeing and happiness and also allow them to build healthier and more mindful habits more broadly around their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because some of the examples you just gave like ordering in dinner are things that we generally think of as splurges and things that we can cut out when we're trying to get control of our budgets, but we shouldn't maybe make those assumptions.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's exactly right. In our research, we see that many people do experience guilt around using their money to buy themselves some time. Just give yourself a break from that guilt. What we see in our research is that buying time really is a good way to promote your happiness and if you're experiencing a lot of stress, a lot of time stress... Buying time can help buffer your overall wellbeing from those feelings of time stress that can otherwise chip away at your mental health.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has this changed during the pandemic? Do you have any data on that? I'm curious.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. We're just beginning to fully explore this question of how these principles might've been altered through the pandemic. But I think a particularly interesting one to focus on at this stage of the pandemic is giving, because we know that many people did not give as much money as they usually would to charity during the pandemic. Many charities are really hurting right now, and so as we kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel and maybe experience some gratitude over having made it this far and still being alive, still kind of being okay. I think this is a wonderful time to pay it forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's move on to the third one. I think this is my favorite one. Track your happy spends versus sad spends.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Yeah. So I always tell people to track what you spend and how it makes you feel. So people are used to tracking their spending to try to restrain their spending or know how much they've got, but I say add on how it makes you feel so you can actually decide what's worth it to you and what's not. So really pay attention to how these purchases affect your mood and then you can start to identify what I call happy spends, these spends that really make you happy. And sad spends, maybe things that used to make you happy but aren't really paying off in terms of your happiness anymore.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
This is going to help you ask yourself what actually brings you real joy and what do you regret by the next day? I would argue that when you shift your spending toward what makes you truly happy... That might be paying off debt, or savoring a treat, helping a friend donating to charity. That can enable you to make better, happier decisions around your own wellbeing and it's also a great opportunity to start thinking about investing in your future self. What are the purchases that make you happy when you first acquire them, but also still continue to provide happiness dividends going forward. I think that's a really fascinating issue. Helping people gain better self insight into what makes them happy starts with just paying attention in the moment to what's providing you joy and what's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was so glad to see this next one on the list because it really resonates with so many of us coming out of this pandemic. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis for me on celebrate along the way, because we really don't know what's going to happen.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. I mean, this experience of the past year has really made me appreciate the value of just celebrating what's good in the moment. So, I recommend when people are tackling a big financial challenge or big life challenge, start with small manageable changes. Achievable changes. And then do take the time to celebrate those little milestones along the way. So it isn't necessarily about just achieving your final goal and that's the only time you should celebrate. Celebrate each piece of it. So break your big goals into more bite sized pieces and these small steps are going to be a lot easier to form into sticky sorts of habits. Just to give some examples, you could start with little changes like saving $10 a week, or maybe giving $15 to a charitable organization that needs your support, or try putting an extra $50 a month toward your credit card debt.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
These are potentially more achievable changes that over time can actually have a really big impact on your overall happiness. So what we've seen in our data at Happy Money is that even building up a little bit of savings can go a long way in terms of people's life satisfaction. So we see that people with just $400 in emergency savings reported over 13% higher levels of life satisfaction compared to people who didn't have that cushion.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're removing that anxiety, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
I think that's a huge part of it. So we see that when people have savings, it kind of acts as this cushion that protects them from some of the shocks of unexpected events in daily life and can also just reassure people that they're going to be a little bit insulated. I think that's one of the big lessons for me from the pandemic because we just don't know what the future holds. Save up some money now so you're ready for whatever surprises the future might have in store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this last one, I think, is just so essential and I hope that people take the time and really take it seriously. And that is to take the time to deal with your feelings around money... Because we often get so caught up in life's day-to-day, we never stop and kind of examine how we're approaching money.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
That's right. And I think this is probably the most important tip. That we focus so much on the sort of objective financial challenges surrounding money itself but we have to also deal with the feelings that are hovering around those challenges. So thinking about this, we decided last year to introduce a new money, mindfulness and stress reduction program that we call Peace. Like peace and love. This free course is really neat because it incorporates cognitive behavioral therapy and psychology to help people understand and reduce the impact that financial stress is having on their lives. The fact that it's completely free was super important to me. This is something we are giving away to just help people deal with the financial stress that the past year has created.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
What we did was really to try to think about how could busy people fit this into their lives? As somebody who's got a full-time job and a kid I thought, 'Could I make this work even for me?' Each exercise is really broken down into these small digestible bites and everything is personalized to the individual and really designed to build skills for addressing stress levels. And going beyond just combating stress, we also wanted to think about the positive sides. So we've got a whole week that's devoted to just helping people promote more positive thoughts and actions. To learn how to amplify their positive emotions and get more joy out of the tiny pleasures of daily life like sitting in the sunshine or eating a piece of chocolate.

Bobbi Rebell:
We so needed all of these reminders. Where can people follow up with you and then follow you on all the socials?

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Well, my number one tip would be to go over to happymoney.com\peace. There they can find more about our Peace program, this free six week program to help people decrease their stress levels. They can follow me on Twitter. I'm @DunnHappyLab. I would also just suggest checking out Happy Money more broadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Elizabeth Dunn:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you feeling happier? Let's do a quick review of some of the concepts here. Okay. First of all, we want to make sure that we actually talk about money with other people. Not to other people by the way, with other people. And it doesn't mean revealing your personal data. It's more like finding comfort in the discussions and taking the stress out of mutual money decisions. So for example, if you make plans with friends to go out, think carefully not just about making sure the place that you go fits your budget, but also fits their budget. So one way to do this is to say that you're going to take control and you'll plan the event or the dining out or whatever you're doing, but give them a few choices. Make sure they're at kind of different price points and point that out to them and maybe in a casual way, be like, "We could splurge and do this, or we could be more budget friendly and do this," or somewhere in between. And you can gauge the reaction from that. It takes away the awkwardness.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the fact that Dr. Dunn talks about treating money as a tool, but not as an end in and of itself. So let's focus on how to get more happiness and how money can get us there. Letting go of the guilt when you buy time to boost happiness. So yeah, hire that babysitter and go on date night. I didn't do it a lot, but maybe I should have. All right track how you spend and how it makes you feel. This is going to help you identify happy spends versus sad spends. I love the way she puts that. Start small and celebrate along the way with an emphasis on celebrating the milestones along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And finally, take the time to deal with your feelings about money. By the way, if you're looking for more info about happiness, definitely check out my recent episode with Meaghan Murphy, where we talk about specific ways to be happier and make sure to also read Meaghan's book, Your Fully Charged Life, which is a great summer beach read. You'll love the cover by the way, it's so... The cover itself makes you happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoy this episode, I would love your help. Make sure you are following it on the platform of your choice and make sure you share it with friends. One easy way to do that is just take a screenshot and post it on your social media and of course, please tag me so I can thank you and I can also share it as well. Growing the show is really hard and your help means the world to me. On Instagram, by the way, I'm @bobbirebell1. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L and then the number one. I highly recommend Dr. Dunn's free Peace course. So go to our show notes at bobbirebell.com under podcast for details. I also provide summaries and full transcripts of the show in the show notes. So please definitely use that resource. It's there for you. It's also free. And of course, we are so thankful and so happy that Dr. Elizabeth Dunn was able to join us and help us all be happy financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by [Steve Stewart 00:18:04]. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by [Ashley Wall 00:18:09]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
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Authors, Advice, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMoney, Happy Money, Happiness Researcher, Author, Authors, Elizabeth Dunn, Money Tips, Happy Spends
Yay! for Money tips from Meaghan Murphy, author of Your Fully Charged Life
Yay! for Money tips from Meaghan Murphy, author of Your Fully Charged Life

Woman’s Day Editor-in-Chief Meaghan Murphy shares how her enthusiasm for things she loves turns into sales.  Plus tips for dealing with toxic bosses at work, why she loves coupons even more than ever, and a preview of her awesome new book "Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay."

Meaghan-Murphy-Main-Instagram-Your-Fully-Charged-LIfe.png

Meaghan’s Money Tips

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Meaghan-Murphy-Twitter-Quote-#3-Your-Fully-Charged-LIfe.png

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

Meaghan-Murphy-Twitter-Quote-#1-Your-Fully-Charged-LIfe.png

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.



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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Meaghan Murphy:
I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Time to smile my grownup friends. Money may not buy you happiness, but happiness can get you very far when it comes to making money. This week's guest literally leverages her happiness into success. You can't help but love this woman the minute you meet her, even if it is virtual. Meaghan Murphy is the editor in chief of Women's Day, which is the number one selling magazine on news stands. And one of the hosts of the Off the Gram podcast. She is also the author of the new book, Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
If she sounds familiar that's because you see you're on all the morning shows. Plus all those great shows like Live with Kelly & Ryan. She is a home hack master, a lifestyle and health expert. Oh. And she works out like a pro because yes, one more thing. She is a certified trainer. She also has lots of children and a husband and so much going on. But we got her here on the podcast to talk to us about how to put yay into our life. And of course, some incredible money tips. Here is Meaghan Murphy. Meaghan Murphy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. I love that you're saying yay. That's like your anthem as the author of Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay. A lot of people will look at this book and they'll say like, oh, that's not me. I'm not wired that way. She's so chipper. She just walks around saying, yay. By the way, people can't see you, but you have lightning bolts on your clothing. But honestly, if somebody met you earlier in life, that's not who you were. Give us some context for this because you weren't always the yay person.

Meaghan Murphy:
After some tragic teen years, I did write a very powerful essay that earned me a scholarship and a national TV spot, which ultimately led to an internship at YM Magazine and ultimately springboarded a magazine career. And so in my 20s, when I was working at Cosmopolitan Magazine, I was assigned by my boss to write a story called the seven secrets of happiness. And I completely rolled my eyes because I'm like, who wants to read this crap? But I was the senior editor at Cosmopolitan and this was my assignment when I started to delve into the research and I started to look at the field of positive psychology. And I looked at the work of Martin Seligman who sort of the godfather of positive psychology. And it was the first time that I sort of had this epiphany that happiness wasn't this like bumper sticker, static (beep) thing that you either were or weren't, but it was actually an active state of being, and there were things you can do.

Meaghan Murphy:
There were choices you could make on a daily basis to move the happiness needle. And maybe it might be better and feel better and to live that way. And so I started to dabble in optimism. I started to dabble in living differently. And that's really when the seeds of a fully charged life were planted. And the beautiful thing about prioritizing positivity and sort of actively choosing happiness is that it really started to build and spiral till it becomes easier to do. And it becomes, comes the default, right? And you don't have to work so hard at it. So today, I mean, my friends joke, I'm like a fricking rainbow unicorn. But that's years and years of practice later and kind of rewiring my brain for optimism and joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
That optimism and joy, even though you're not even conscious about it, does translate into so much success in things that are connected to money. So for example, you talk about in the book that you were online at an ice cream store and you were so enthusiastic about a santa cake that you basically became the de facto salesperson for this little ice cream store that was selling ice cream cakes, and you started selling santa cakes for them.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm an evangelist for things I love. If I get excited about something I want everyone else to get excited about. So I probably should have some type of sales career because I would crush it. I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can reach you and your podcast and all your other projects.

Meaghan Murphy:
Sure. So I am on Instagram. I'm pretty busy. Meghan B Murphy, M-E-A-G-H-A-N, B Murphy. I have a podcast called Off the Gram with a bunch of wellness influencers. That's wherever podcasts are not sold, but listened to, I guess. And I'm also the editor in chief of Woman's Day Magazine. So it's a top selling magazine on newsstands. I think we have 18 million readers. So that's a pretty fun thing to pick up too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. That's kind of huge. But yeah, most people would lead with that one, but you have so much going on. I can't thank you enough for stopping by. This is such a gift to our listeners. So thank you so much, Meaghan.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my gosh. I so enjoyed you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, right? She was great. Let's go over some of the tips that we learned from Meaghan. First, be an evangelist for things you love. They will literally sell themselves. If you have a toxic boss at work, do not fall for the bait. Be generous with introductions. Don't worry that there will be less for you. Things work out for those who give proactively and generously. And of course, yay for coupons.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So now I have a question for all of you. What are you happy about these days? What are you celebrating? I am looking forward to a lot of in-person get togethers as things open up. And I'm always looking for the perfect gift, which is one reason I created grownupgear.com. So if you haven't checked it out yet, please take a look. We have the perfect gift for all of those adulting moments that we celebrate from graduations to engagements, bridal showers, new homes, birthdays, all the good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
As a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 gift card to Grownup Gear each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. Can also think of it as financial independence day if that motivates you. There are two ways to enter, take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media and tag me @bobbirebell1. That's on Instagram, I should say. And then also email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter is to write a review on the Money Tips for Financial Grownups Podcast on Apple podcasts. Take a screenshot and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. Grownup Gear is what I like to call a micro business and we really do need and appreciate all of your support. So please check it out and tell your friends. And thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note. I hope you guys smiled a lot listening to this episode. I loved interviewing Meaghan. She's the best. So big thanks to Meaghan Murphy. Don't forget to check out her book for cheering us all on and yay for all of you financial grownups. Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. And Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Authors, Financial Grownup, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMeaghan Murphy, Your Fully Charged Life, Yay
Money tips from Million Dollar Listing New York’s Kirsten Jordan
Money tips from Million Dollar Listing New York’s Kirsten Jordan
Kirsten-Jordan-Main-Instagram-Real-Estate-Million-Dollar-Listing-New-York.png

The newest star of the hit Bravo series shares specific tips on where to spend your money to get maximum impact in everything from real estate to your career wardrobe. Plus: how they filmed a reality tv series during a pandemic. 

Kirsten’s Money Tips:

Kirsten Jordan:
What I learned the most over the last year and a half is that it's very easy as a working mom to just bulk up on childcare and not bulk up on help anywhere else. And just think that you need to get more childcare so that you can work longer hours and work harder and just be further stretched and be crankier and angrier. And just you have that be your MO, which we've all been there. What I realized as soon as I actually had somebody helping me in the office and actually helping me with the backend of my business, that's when I realized that I don't need to be the one touching everything and doing everything.

Kirsten Jordan:
And why did I wait 12 years to get help at work. That made me be able to leverage myself into the areas that I really enjoy the most and that bring me the most money per hour. But also it made me a lot happier at home because I wasn't focusing on the stuff I didn't like doing. And I think this is a very benign, so elementary basic thing for people who are not entrepreneurs but I think it's very easy when you're an entrepreneur to be like, "I'm going to save money and not hire extra help. I'm just going to think about my bottom line," when it's very hard to scale, virtually impossible to scale, if you're not ready to embrace having some actual help at work as well.

Kirsten-Jordan-Twitter-#1-Real-Estate-Million-Dollar-Listing-New-York .png

Bobbi Rebell:
That makes so much sense. And people forget, in addition to childcare, you could get someone and it sounds almost luxurious, but to get a personal assistant to do all those errands and maybe then you have less childcare and spend that time with your kids, right.

Kirsten Jordan:
Right. And I have three kids. So for me, it's always the constant struggle. It's trying to figure out how to not only spend more time with my kids but be present when I'm with them, which is one of my main objectives in every area of my life. It is making sure that I am present in whatever I'm doing. So, if it's a podcast, if it's being with my kids, if it's being with clients, if it's meeting a new prospect, it is you get my undivided attention. Then when I'm done with it, I walk away and I'm done with it. The only way to do that, in my opinion, at least at my age, with the amount of kids I have and the amount of stuff I have going on is to get as much stuff off my plate that is not the highest and best use of my time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a real estate tip that everyone can use.

Kirsten Jordan:
Throughout the country, we are in a sellers market. In order to be able to get any sort of opportunity, pretty much it means being flexible and knowing how much you can spend and how high you can bid. And making sure you evaluate the taxes on the property, your mortgage and what that's going to look like so you really understand what your monthly number is going to be. Because if you find something you really like, it's probably going to be going over the asking price or go to closed bids very, very quickly. So, the key is being ultra prepared when you go to see a property and understanding what you can spend, what that looks like on a monthly basis, speaking to a mortgage broker and being ready to take the advice of the real estate agent as to where to come in.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of young people, instead of starting their jobs in person have started their jobs at home in sweats behind a Zoom camera. And now they're going to go out into the world. Share some tips on how people can present their best selves as we reemerge into the office spaces. Assuming we do, which I think we will, at least to some degree.

Kirsten-Jordan-Instagram-#2-Real-Estate-Million-Dollar-Listing-New-York.png

Kirsten Jordan:
I completely agree with you. I've been in person with people since June 22nd. So, I have continued to hold myself together and dress up, which I even did during quarantine. I would say it breaks down to three tips. The number one tip is get a uniform for yourself in the sense that you have an idea of what your look is and how you can rotate that. I think people call that a capsule wardrobe. Whatever it is, for me, it's colored blazers. I wear a lot of different colored blazers every day with different kinds of looks. Whether it's a skirt or it's a pair of pants but that's my staple and it makes it really easy for me get out of the house in the morning and feel put together.

Kirsten Jordan:
The second thing is making sure that you have a routine around making sure that you're ready or have an idea of what you're going to wear the next day. It's super cliche but this idea of laying out your clothes like the way that I do with my kids, I think that that saves a lot of time and it really guarantees that you're going to have a nice look every day because spending a ton of time, preparing yourself in the morning is a waste of time because it can be really simplified. And if you stick with looking at the weather the night before, just pulling out an outfit that you plan on wearing and being ready to pull yourself together to get out the door, I think that's super important. And it cuts back on the time that you can spend with this idea of, or the burden of looking really nice every day.

Kirsten Jordan:
And the third thing is making sure that you are dressing for your audience. In New York as a real estate agent, dressing for downtown is different then dressing for uptown. Without over-analyzing it, I do adjust what I'm wearing based on what I have going that day.

Kirsten Jordan:
So, it is really important to value that and remember that people that spend time with you, they can't help but want to have some sort of aspiration about hanging out with you. And that's something I always have believed. I have clients who say to me, "I just love the fact that every single time you show up, you look nice. That's really important because I feel like you'll represent my property better because you're so put together." And you know what? That is something that I've gotten used to doing every single day since I was 10 years old. And it has gotten me really, really far. You just can't discount it.

Kirsten-Jordan-Twitter-#3-Real-Estate-Million-Dollar-Listing-New-York .png

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Buying the perfect gift to celebrate life's big milestones can be tough. I have the solution with grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees and these seriously, most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts celebrating adulting on grownupgear.com. And yeah, of course, they're all at affordable prices. If you can't decide, we now have digital gift certificates. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast and we truly appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have clients who say to me, "I just love the fact that every single time you show up, you look nice. That's really important because I feel like you'll represent my property better because you're so put together." And you know what? That is something that I've gotten used to doing every single day since I was 10 years old and it has gotten me really, really far. You just can't discount it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone to, Money Tips for Financial Grownups. This week's guest said what some people might not like to hear but is so true in grownup land. How you present absolutely matters. It can make all the difference, frankly, when it comes to how successful you are in life. That is just one of the no BS money tips that Kirsten Jordan, the new breakout star of Million Dollar Listing New York on Bravo shares in our interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, we have deconstructed the podcast just a bit. So, the conversation is more free flowing and you get maximum money tips. Listen for the sound throughout the episode and you'll get what I mean. All right, let's talk about Kirsten Jordan. Her day job is selling extremely expensive real estate at Douglas Element in Manhattan. But just before the pandemic, she joined the cast of Bravo's Million Dollar Listing New York. We talk about what it was like to film during the pandemic and her secrets to getting all those lucrative real estate deals. So many of you loved our episode with her co-star Ryan Serhant, you will adore Kirsten, AKA, KJ as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Kirsten Jordan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kirsten Jordan, you're a financial grownup. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

Kirsten Jordan:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Million Dollar Listing New York, just debuted. How exciting is this after filming in a pandemic all this time in secret?

Kirsten Jordan:
It has been a roller coaster because I started filming in the beginning of 2020. So, it was January of 2020. And here we are in May of 2021 and it's finally aired. We weren't allowed to film. So, everything was home footage. Then when we started up again at the end of July, there was major protocols in place to even start doing that. So, it was really just a very jarring stop. And then it was, you know, we're going to take a bunch of footage because I think we all were taking footage of our homes in general. And there's no secret about that.

Kirsten Jordan:
All of us were taking footage just because it was fun and interesting to record history. And then of course that was something that potentially could have been used. And then it got started again and it just hit the ground running when the real estate market wasn't really up and running fully yet in the sense that we were allowed to show but we weren't really... People weren't back and ready yet. They were really just not focused on real estate yet. They were just like, "Wow, I can't believe things are open again. Is it really safe to come see an apartment?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It's almost like this is really going to be a behind the scenes documentary of a two layer thing. It's what was happening in real estate but also what happens on a reality TV show when a pandemic hits.

Kirsten Jordan:
Right. And we weren't the only show that tried to figure out ways to be able to get footage during COVID. A lot of those shows have closed sets or able to shoot during a very specific time period where clearly, because ours is truly reality of following us around and seeing what properties we're pitching and we're selling, it's just much, much more complicated.

Bobbi Rebell:
The thing I love about you is you have already, before the show, you have a huge presence giving very no BS tips about the real estate market. We're going to get to those in just a minute but I want to hear what tips you picked up from your co-stars on the show when filming Million Dollar Listing New York.

Kirsten Jordan:
What you learned from the other cast members is they have been doing it longer than I have and they're very successful. I would say that I've learned how to be able to take it with a grain of salt and be able to have tension with them because I think we all are really competitive. And so, for me in the beginning, the hardest part was the fact that we all are going to be competing with each other because we do overlap anyway. That's just how the nature of the business is. This is a competitive industry. And so, I have a lot of tension with Tyler, a lot of tension with Frederick and you see that on the show. And I think for me, that was the first time I had something like this, where it's normal to have this in the industry but then this idea of like, "Oh, wow. And then everybody's watching." It took me a little bit to get used to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, tell me what tips do you have for our grownup listeners?

Kirsten Jordan:
What I learned the most over the last year and a half is that it's very easy as a working mom to just bulk up on childcare and not bulk up on help anywhere else. And just think that you need to get more childcare so that you can work longer hours and work harder and just be further stretched and be crankier and angrier. And just you have that be your MO, which we've all been there. What I realized as soon as I actually had somebody helping me in the office and actually helping me with the backend of my business, that's when I realized that I don't need to be the one touching everything and doing everything.

Kirsten Jordan:
And why did I wait 12 years to get help at work. That made me be able to leverage myself into the areas that I really enjoy the most and that bring me the most money per hour. But also it made me a lot happier at home because I wasn't focusing on the stuff I didn't like doing. And I think this is a very benign, so elementary basic thing for people who are not entrepreneurs but I think it's very easy when you're an entrepreneur to be like, "I'm going to save money and not hire extra help. I'm just going to think about my bottom line," when it's very hard to scale, virtually impossible to scale, if you're not ready to embrace having some actual help at work as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
That makes so much sense. And people forget, in addition to childcare, you could get someone and it sounds almost luxurious, but to get a personal assistant to do all those errands and maybe then you have less childcare and spend that time with your kids, right.

Kirsten Jordan:
Right. And I have three kids. So for me, it's always the constant struggle. It's trying to figure out how to not only spend more time with my kids but be present when I'm with them, which is one of my main objectives in every area of my life. It is making sure that I am present in whatever I'm doing. So, if it's a podcast, if it's being with my kids, if it's being with clients, if it's meeting a new prospect, it is you get my undivided attention. Then when I'm done with it, I walk away and I'm done with it. The only way to do that, in my opinion, at least at my age, with the amount of kids I have and the amount of stuff I have going on is to get as much stuff off my plate that is not the highest and best use of my time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a real estate tip that everyone can use.

Kirsten Jordan:
Throughout the country, we are in a sellers market. In order to be able to get any sort of opportunity, pretty much it means being flexible and knowing how much you can spend and how high you can bid. And making sure you evaluate the taxes on the property, your mortgage and what that's going to look like so you really understand what your monthly number is going to be. Because if you find something you really like, it's probably going to be going over the asking price or go to closed bids very, very quickly. So, the key is being ultra prepared when you go to see a property and understanding what you can spend, what that looks like on a monthly basis, speaking to a mortgage broker and being ready to take the advice of the real estate agent as to where to come in.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of young people, instead of starting their jobs in person have started their jobs at home in sweats behind a Zoom camera. And now they're going to go out into the world. Share some tips on how people can present their best selves as we reemerge into the office spaces. Assuming we do, which I think we will, at least to some degree.

Kirsten Jordan:
I completely agree with you. I've been in person with people since June 22nd. So, I have continued to hold myself together and dress up, which I even did during quarantine. I would say it breaks down to three tips. The number one tip is get a uniform for yourself in the sense that you have an idea of what your look is and how you can rotate that. I think people call that a capsule wardrobe. Whatever it is, for me, it's colored blazers. I wear a lot of different colored blazers every day with different kinds of looks. Whether it's a skirt or it's a pair of pants but that's my staple and it makes it really easy for me get out of the house in the morning and feel put together.

Kirsten Jordan:
The second thing is making sure that you have a routine around making sure that you're ready or have an idea of what you're going to wear the next day. It's super cliche but this idea of laying out your clothes like the way that I do with my kids, I think that that saves a lot of time and it really guarantees that you're going to have a nice look every day because spending a ton of time, preparing yourself in the morning is a waste of time because it can be really simplified. And if you stick with looking at the weather the night before, just pulling out an outfit that you plan on wearing and being ready to pull yourself together to get out the door, I think that's super important. And it cuts back on the time that you can spend with this idea of, or the burden of looking really nice every day.

Kirsten Jordan:
And the third thing is making sure that you are dressing for your audience. In New York as a real estate agent, dressing for downtown is different then dressing for uptown. Without over-analyzing it, I do adjust what I'm wearing based on what I have going that day.

Kirsten Jordan:
So, it is really important to value that and remember that people that spend time with you, they can't help but want to have some sort of aspiration about hanging out with you. And that's something I always have believed. I have clients who say to me, "I just love the fact that every single time you show up, you look nice. That's really important because I feel like you'll represent my property better because you're so put together." And you know what? That is something that I've gotten used to doing every single day since I was 10 years old. And it has gotten me really, really far. You just can't discount it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm definitely on the KJ bandwagon that we start dressing up a little bit more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Million Dollar Listing New York is now out on Bravo. So, everyone needs to be watching that. Where can people find out more about you, KJ?

Kirsten Jordan:
I have a website. It's called www.KirstenJordan.com. There you can find all of my press. You can also find all of the videos that I've created, all of my blogs and then you can click through. And then there's a way to get to my real estate website, of course, which is the www.KirstenJordanTeam.com that has all of my real estate listings. And then it also has all the historical sales that I've done. So, you can do a deep dive there as well. And then of course you can find me on Instagram @Kirsten.Jordan.

Kirsten Jordan:
If you look on Bravo's website, which is www.bravotv.com, there's a ton of stuff there too that shows what we're going to be doing on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the show is amazing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Kirsten Jordan:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys enjoyed listening to that interview as much as I enjoy talking to Kirsten. Let's review a little bit of what we learned from her. When I asked her what she learned from her co-stars, Kirsten was honest. They are her peers but they're also the competition. And that doesn't mean you don't like them. It doesn't mean you don't get along with them but it is something to think about when you collaborate in your career. Sometimes there's only one winner. Make sure it's you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another tip. Protect your time. That means thinking not just about outsourcing things like childcare if you're a parent, but maybe other things like your personal to-do list. So, you get to spend time doing what you want. That might be with your kids if you're a parent or if you're a parent, maybe that's not spending time with your kids and doing something else. Whatever it may be, you can free up your time. Think about how you allocate your resources and really make sure they reflect your priorities.

Bobbi Rebell:
When it comes to real estate, run the numbers before you fall in love with a property and listen to the professionals that you hire. You are paying them for their expertise. Get your money's worth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kirsten also had great general advice about being successful in your career or in your business. First of all, she talks about coming up with a consistent look. Get your outfit ready for the next day. So, you don't waste time in the morning. It will really lower your stress levels. Dress for your audience. People hire people that they think have their act together. How you present yourself is often the first and biggest indicator, if that is true. Like it or not. Just saying.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to watch the Million Dollar Listing New York season unfilled. Kirsten is a total star and I am so grateful that she took the time to be part of this podcast and share with all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you follow her on all the socials and definitely check out the show. And if you are an M D L N Y super fan like me, DM me and tell me what you think of this season. I want to hear from you guys, seriously. I'm a little obsessed. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Also, please support the show by checking out and hopefully making some purchases on www.grownupgear.com for all the gifts you need this spring. Including graduations, bridal showers, engagement parties and of course, M D L N Y viewing parties because really guys, what is more grown-up than being able to watch as much high quality, reality TV as you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
And in fact, next week, we're going to have the stars of another one of my favorite reality TV shows on. The ladies from the Netflix hit series, Marriage or Mortgage, Nichole Holmes and Sarah Miller. I have a lot to say about this show and the ladies really dish with some fantastic insider moments and money tips.

Bobbi Rebell:
Until next week. Big thanks to Million Dollar Listing New York's, Kirsten Jordan for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
The financial grownup podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer and Amanda Saven is our Talent Coordinator and Content Creator. So yeah, that means she does the show notes. You can get for every show, right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. And this year we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the grownup list. Go to www.BobbiRebell.com to sign up for free. While you're there, please check out our grownup gear shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a financial grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoy the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grown-up life.

Reality TV stars, Money, Productivity, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanKirsten Jordan, Money Tips, Real Estate, Million Dollar Listing New York
How to make $10,000 in 10 days with author and entrepreneur Rachel Rodgers
How to make $10,000 in 10 days with author and entrepreneur Rachel Rodgers
Main Insta- Rachel Rodgers ceo hello 7 we should all be millionaires (1).png

Rachel Rodgers is back! She has a new book "We Should All Be Millionaires" plus why broken kitchen cabinets drive her nuts and why she is throwing out her “shitty bras”. Rachel also updates us on the Rodgers Ranch and her company Hello Seven.

Rachel’s Tips

Tip #1- We have this thing where we want to be liked. Every human wants to be liked, this is not unique to women, but our culture has created this situation where women think they need to be nice and they need to be liked by all. Let me tell you something, that is a losing game. That desire to be liked really kills your ability to generate more money. I think, we think like, "Oh, if I make a bunch of money, people are not going to like me." You know what? People already don't like you, so who cares? Might as well make some money.

Tip #2- It's just little things like that, where we have shabby conditions around us that make us feel shabby inside. When you wake up and your environment tells you, "You know what? You must be a boss because look at this environment that you're in," guess what? You're going to go out there and you're going to make million-dollar decisions all day, every day. It really shifts your energy when you are in an environment that makes you feel really good.

Twitter Quote #1- Rachel Rodgers ceo hello 7 we should all be millionaires (1).png

Tip #3-Are you surrounding yourself with people who make broke decisions all day? Is your best girlfriend, Brenda, calling you to complain about her job every day, but never does anything to go get a better job or talk to her boss about it or deal with her situation? Or are you surrounded by people who when you say, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this exciting thing. Hey, I'm thinking about buying a house. Hey, I'm thinking about making this money move," they're like, "Ooh, I wouldn't do that," and discouraging you and being very negative about it and making you feel bad about being ambitious? When you have those kinds of people around you all day, trust me, it is affecting your ability to make million-dollar decisions. This is literally nonstop. This is exactly how it works, and there's science to back it up. Harvard studies, where it shows that the people that you spend the most time with, 95% of your success or failure in whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish comes from the people you surround yourself with on a daily basis. If you are surrounding yourself with naysayers, people who are negative, people who are not ambitious at all, people who are discouraging, you are going to be discouraged and you're likely not going to make the moves that you want to be making.

Tip #4- Okay, a lot of times we say, "Well, I really want to upgrade my home, but I don't have enough money." One of the sections of the book, what we talk about is can we flip that but to an and? Can we say instead of, "I want to do this thing, but I can't afford it," what if you said, "I want to do this thing and I don't currently have the money." Cool, now that opens up possibilities. It makes you feel like, "Oh, okay. These are the facts of the case. I want to do this thing and I don't have the money right now, but what could I do to change the situation?" I could potentially change it. It creates opportunity. It opens it up, it expands the possibilities. Whereas when you say, "But," it's kind of like it closes the door on that being a possibility, it closes the door on that opportunity. I encourage you to be and people instead of but people. This goes to the peer group. Are you surrounded by people who can say, "Yes, that's true, and what could you do differently? Let's brainstorm some opportunities." Imagine if we had friends who would brainstorm business opportunities, money-making opportunities, networking opportunities with us, instead of talking about everything that's wrong with the world and just complaining all the time and commiserating. We could do that too, but let's make sure that we are also being expansive. If you change your but to and, that might open up some creativity for you to come up with solutions to the financial problems that come up.

Follow Rachel!

Twitter Quote #3- Rachel Rodgers ceo hello 7 we should all be millionaires (1).png

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

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Rachel Rodgers :

We did a 10K in 10 Days challenge with 350 of our clients. The average was like $6,700 per person, and they, as a group, made $2.4 million in 10 days.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes, my friends, $10,000 in 10 days, do you dare take the challenge? You want to hear about it though, right? Rachel Rodgers is back and the perfect guest for our newly updated format here on Money Tips for Financial Grownups. If you missed the bonus episode, it should be just before this one in your feed, but in short, we're streamlining the show to focus more on money tips to help us all be our best financial grownups. I lost count of all the incredible money tips that Rachel shares in our interview, but you're going to hear ... sound every time she drops one.

Bobbi Rebell:

Rachel, who is the CEO of HelloSeven and runs the Rodgers' Ranch, which you're going to hear about in our interview, has a new book out called We Should All be Millionaires. I read it cover to cover in one sitting and you should too, then you should also go back and make note of all the gems in the book. But first, let's get some extra money tips in our interview. Here is Rachel Rodgers.

Bobbi Rebell:

Rachel Rodgers, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast again, welcome back.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yay, I'm so glad to be back. I'm excited.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, we're celebrating because your book, We Should All be Billionaires: A Woman's Guide to Earning More, Building Wealth, and Gaining Economic Power, is released today, the day that this episode is coming out. Tell us high level about the book and what we can expect.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes. Well, you can expect some tough love and you can expect a guide to becoming a millionaire, making a million dollars. I think we need that. We shoot for six figures and it's not enough, I don't know if you've noticed. You probably have, because you're a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:

And I live in New York City.

Rachel Rodgers :

Exactly, but I want women to be shooting for seven figures so that we can really make a massive impact. The reality is that 2% of women entrepreneurs ever hit the seven-figure mark, and when it comes to the world's billionaires, very, very few of them are women. I think we need to understand how to earn more, and that's what this book is about. It's not about what to put in your 401k or how to invest, what to do with your money on the backend. No, it's about how to get more of it in the first place.

Bobbi Rebell:

You challenge your clients to come up with a way to make $10,000 in 10 days. Let's just start with the results, and then tell me some of the ways that you could make $10,000 in 10 days.

Rachel Rodgers :

We did a 10K in 10 Days challenge with 350 of our clients, and they, as a group, made $2.4 million in 10 days.

Bobbi Rebell:

What was the average?

Rachel Rodgers :

The average was like $6,700 per person, approximately.

Bobbi Rebell:

Which is incredible.

Rachel Rodgers :

I mean, incredible, right? To me, it's not about the money. It's about the fact that what I'm trying to prove and what I want women to be able to prove to themselves is that you can earn as much as you want, whenever you want. You have the ability to generate cash whenever you need to. I think we have a money problem come up and we're like, "I don't know what I'm going to do. Let me start cutting things and slashing things. Let me start shrinking my life," and I'm like, "I do the opposite." If something comes up and I want to spend money on something, I'm like, "Okay, well, let me think about what are my different ways of earning more and which one am I going to choose? Okay, great. I'm going to choose that one, let me put it out there," and then I earn that money in 30 days or less and then I go do that thing I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:

What are some of the best ways people came up with to earn money?

Rachel Rodgers :

Oh, it was amazing. There were people having yard sales, people were just reaching out to past clients who owed them money and they just hadn't reached out to them and said, "Hey, you owe me money. Hey, you hadn't paid your invoice, can you go ahead and take care of that?" They made all this money from clients that were like six months late, just because they weren't following up. I'm like, "Honey, we need to focus on our money and not let all of those dollars trickle out of our hands." That's what I see happening with women as a whole, and so I'm asking us to hold ourselves accountable to really pay attention to our money.

Rachel Rodgers :

That was some of the things that they did. They launched new programs, they created products. They had ideas for all these different ways that they could make money or they thought like, "Oh, one day maybe I'll do X," and I'm like, "I challenge you to go do X right now," and they would do it. They would launch a new program or launch a product and put it out there. They didn't even have to create the product or the program yet, they could just say, "Hey, this is coming. Would you like one? If you purchase it early, here's what happens. You have 10 days to say, yes, you want it," they buy it and then you have a little bit of time to go create the thing and deliver it.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it's also a proven idea. One of my favorite parts of the book, you say you have three ways that women make bad money decisions. What are the three ways that women make bad money decisions?

Rachel Rodgers :

Well, we have this thing where we want to be liked, it's like every human wants to be liked, this is not unique to women, but our culture has created this situation where women think they need to be nice and they need to be liked by all. Let me tell you something, that is a losing game. That desire to be liked really kills your ability to generate more money. I think, we think like, "Oh, if I make a bunch of money, people are not going to like me." You know what? People already don't like you, so who cares? Might as well make some money.

Bobbi Rebell:

Absolutely. Okay, number two, what was the second thing?

Rachel Rodgers :

Environment. We're in this broke (beep) environment. We have (beep) bras. I literally just bought 12 new bras because we've been in a pandemic and every bra has a busted strap, the wire is broken. I was like, "Honey, get your life together." It was just things like that. One of my clients used to have a cabinet in her kitchen that would not open all the way, and because of that, she had a small little kitchen and so it was all shoved into the other cabinets. Every time she opened her cabinets, all this (beep) falling out. She was just like, "This drives me nuts literally all day, every day," every time she's making coffee, every time she's preparing a meal.

Rachel Rodgers :

It's just little things like that, where we have shabby conditions around us that make us feel shabby inside. When you wake up and your environment tells you, "You know what? You must be a boss because look at this environment that you're in," guess what? You're going to go out there and you're going to make million-dollar decisions all day, every day. It really shifts your energy when you are in an environment that makes you feel really good.

Bobbi Rebell:

And then the third one has to do with who we surround ourselves with, right?

Rachel Rodgers :

Exactly. Are you surrounding yourself with people who make broke (beep) decisions all day? Is your best girlfriend, Brenda, calling you to complain about her job every day, but never does anything to go get a better job or talk to her boss about it or deal with her situation? Or are you surrounded by people who when you say, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this exciting thing. Hey, I'm thinking about buying a house. Hey, I'm thinking about making this money move," they're like, "Ooh, I wouldn't do that," and discouraging you and being very negative about it and making you feel bad about being ambitious? When you have those kinds of people around you all day, trust me, it is affecting your ability to make million-dollar decisions.

Rachel Rodgers :

This is literally nonstop. This is exactly how it works, and there's science to back it up. Harvard studies, where it shows that the people that you spend the most time with, 95% of your success or failure in whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish comes from the people you surround yourself with on a daily basis. If you are surrounding yourself with naysayers, people who are negative, people who are not ambitious at all, people who are discouraging, you are going to be discouraged and you're likely not going to make the moves that you want to be making.

Bobbi Rebell:

Another money tip in the book that I love has to do with flipping just one word. Tell us about that.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes. Okay, a lot of times we say, "Well, I really want to upgrade my home, but I don't have enough money." One of the sections of the book, what we talk about is can we flip that but to an and? Can we say instead of, "I want to do this thing, but I can't afford it," what if you said, "I want to do this thing and I don't currently have the money." Cool, now that opens up possibilities. It makes you feel like, "Oh, okay. These are the facts of the case. I want to do this thing and I don't have the money right now, but what could I do to change the situation?" I could potentially change it. It creates opportunity. It opens it up, it expands the possibilities. Whereas when you say, "But," it's kind of like it closes the door on that being a possibility, it closes the door on that opportunity. I encourage you to be and people instead of but people.

Rachel Rodgers :

This goes to the peer group. Are you surrounded by people who can say, "Yes, that's true, and what could you do differently? Let's brainstorm some opportunities." Imagine if we had friends who would brainstorm business opportunities, money-making opportunities, networking opportunities with us, instead of talking about everything that's wrong with the world and just complaining all the time and commiserating. We could do that too, but let's make sure that we are also being expansive. If you change your but to and, that might open up some creativity for you to come up with solutions to the financial problems that come up.

Bobbi Rebell:

Changing the way that you frame how you see things, so important. You also talk about taking certain tests to figure out basically where your talent is, where you're most likely to be the most successful.

Rachel Rodgers :

One of the things that we recommend is that we do an assessment, a skills assessment, to see what skills have I acquired over the years, what are my natural talents and gifts and strengths, what am I naturally good at, what do people come to me all the time to ask me for, where you can start to really hone in on the way that you add value in the world and then how can you capitalize on that skill, how can you start charging for that service, or how can you create a product based on that skillset that can increase your earning potential.

Bobbi Rebell:

And there are specific tests you recommend.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes, exactly. You can take StrengthsFinders, Kolbe, DiSC. There's also a great book called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks. Each one of these will help you assess for yourself where your natural talents and skills lie, and so you can figure out where is my money-making potential.

Bobbi Rebell:

You were waiting for a client's check.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you needed that money. It's very relatable in the last year, because we all learned how important having that cash cushion, whether you label it as an emergency fund or just savings, whatever it may be, you were in a precarious position waiting on money to come in. Tell us what you needed the money for, what was going on, and how it was resolved.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes. This was years ago, I was probably two years into building my business. I was pregnant with my son, my daughter was one years old. I was trying to put her in daycare. I was working from home, my husband was in school at the time. My child had been home with us for a full year, there was zero childcare. My child was with her father or me or both of us for the whole first year of her life. I'm trying to grow a law practice, so I needed childcare, and searched for the right childcare, found a great place and her spot came up on the wait list. I'm like, "Great." Now, I'm waiting for this corporate check to come from a client. This was one of my first corporate clients and it was a big check for $5,000, which was the most money that I had ever received at one time in my life at the time.

Rachel Rodgers :

I'm waiting for months for this check to come, because we all know corporations, sometimes it's like net 30. I mean, they just pay you when they feel like it, basically. Three, four months later, finally the check shows up, I go to the bank to deposit, I'm like, "Thank God, I'm going to deposit this check and then immediately write a check for the daycare and go drop that off so that I can hold her spot," because it was like the last day to reserve her spot. I get to the bank, I deposit it, I'm all giddy and excited. I mean, I'm in my sweats, looking like crap, but who cares, I got money so I'm happy. I go to deposit it and the bank teller says, "Great, that'll be a two-week hold," and I'm like, "Pardon me? What?" I'm whispering to her because I don't want the other people in the bank to hear me and I'm like, "Is there any way you can make that available like today?" and she's like, "Nope, I can't because it's an out-of-state check."

Rachel Rodgers :

She sent me to go talk to the branch manager. I go talk to the branch manager, who's an older white guy. Here I am in my sweats looking like a broke (beep) college student and not a trustworthy professional. I go and talk to him and tell him I need the money right away. My face is getting red and I'm just absolutely mortified to be an attorney who has to go beg the branch manager to make her money available right away. It was a good wake up call. I was watching the branch manager and another banker looking at their monitor, I could tell they're scrolling through my account, looking at all my purchases. I'm sitting there and I'm feeling the hot tears come, my face is all red. As I sat there, I just had this moment where I was like, "Never again. This is my fault that I'm here right now and it will never, ever happen again."

Rachel Rodgers :

Luckily, they did release the check, I was able to put my daughter in childcare. That year I took that business from $60,000 a year to $300,000, so 5X'd my revenue, because I got focused because I realized the money was on me. Somebody else isn't going to make that money for me, it's not going to manifest out of thin air, and it's nobody's fault necessarily. Yes, there are systemic things at play. There is racism and sexism at play for sure, and at the same time, I also have a choice in the matter and there's also decisions that I'm making on a daily basis. I held myself to being a financial grownup, and that year, I really grew up and made a lot more money.

Bobbi Rebell:

Just one of the many, many incredible and inspiring stories in your new book. Tell us, we know the book is available everywhere, what else should people be looking out for from you? I know you have a course associated with the book and a lot more going on at the Rodgers' Ranch and so on. Tell us.

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes. Lord, I seem to have way too much going on. We have a podcast called the HelloSeven Podcast. We're always interviewing women, definitely women of color, who are making seven figures or more, because again, I like to provide my clients with evidence.

Bobbi Rebell:

And the Rodgers' Ranch, what's going on there?

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes, we have been fixing it up. It's so funny, my children are right outside my window. My little cottage is right next to the arena where we do horse training and lessons and stuff. My kids are out there right now, riding horses. Yeah, we're crazy up in here. We've also been renovating our retreat house. We're going to be opening up to be able to offer our retreat house up to people who want to come and have a little equestrian getaway here in North Carolina, in the next couple of weeks, so that's really exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you have social handles for all these things, right?

Rachel Rodgers :

Yes. We are @therodgersranch, Rodgers with a D, on Instagram. Then my personal Instagram is @rachrodgersesq, and you can follow my company, HelloSeven, @hello7co.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much for coming back to the show.

Rachel Rodgers :

Thank you for having me. I love talking about money.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, my friends, let's review some of the key money tips that Rachel gave us. First of all, aim high. Rachel is all about seven figures, not six. Having high goals is a win-win. If you reach it, you win, but if you get closer than you would have with a lower goal, you also are better off and you still have more room to grow, win. One of the easiest ways to make money is to collect the money that you are owed receivables matter, get them settled. Sell before you create, that way you prove the concept and you have built in pre-orders when you do launch. Just be careful to manage timeline expectations for when customers will get the product.

Bobbi Rebell:

Get over getting everyone to like you and choose who you spend your time with very carefully. Be a friend, be a business colleague, do not be a therapist, unless of course you are a therapist. Make the effort to create a work environment where you will be your most productive. People are shocked that I wrote most of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, at a big ugly Formica table under bright lights at the Whole Foods across the street from my apartment. But you know what? There were no distractions and there was great wifi, it worked. Try to experiment a bit and find what works for you. And take a skills assessment test. We'll have the links to the ones Rachel suggested in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:

Friends, there is also a companion course to Rachel's book. You can find out more on her website, which we will also have linked in the show notes. Let me know how you guys liked the updated format. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and get more money tips by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com, and signing up for our now weekly Money Tips newsletter. Big thanks to Rachel Rodgers for coming back and sharing her money tips for financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:

The Financial Grownup Podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer and Amanda Saven is our talent coordinator and content creators, so yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels. Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. This year, we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the grownup list. Go to BobbiRebell.com to sign up for free. While you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:

Stay in touch on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com, and if you enjoyed the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts, it only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grown-up life.


Follow Rachel!

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Advice, Authors, Entrepreneurs, Millennial Superstars, Money, Personal Finance, Productivity, Role Models, Shopping, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsGuest UserRachel Rodgers, ceo hello 7, money tips for financial grownups
Tiffany Aliche “The Budgetnista” on how she taught her bonus daughter to Get Good with Money
Tiffany Aliche “The Budgetnista” on how she taught her bonus daughter to Get Good with Money
Main Twitter- Tiffany the budgetnista Aliche educator and author (2).png

Former pre-school teacher Tiffany Aliche created a mini-“boss” entrepreneur when her savvy stepdaughter started asking questions about money- and put her on an early path to being a financial grownup. Plus we preview Tiffany’s latest book, Get Good with Money. 10 Steps to Financial Wholeness. 

Tiffany’s Money Story

Every time we would go out shopping, My husband would buy my step-daughter a toy or something. And at first, I was like, "Did she get good grades today? Is it her birthday?" And I noticed that she just came to expect that, "If we're going someplace random, I'm going to get something." And I told him thatt his is not the best way to raise a financially-savvy grownup. I told him instead, "Let's put her on a budget so we can give her the words." She would get birthday money or Christmas money. I would tell her to save it. I got her a little piggy bank. And before we would go someplace, I would say, because I call her Supergirl, that's her nickname because I call her father, my husband, Superman. So, I would say, "Supergirl, we're going to Target today. What's your budget?" And she'd asked me like, "What does that mean?" I'm like, "The amount of money that you have to spend." And she would say, "I don't know. Whatever Daddy gives me." I'm like, "No, no. It's in your piggy bank." So, she would go and be like, "Oh, okay, I've got $5." I'm like, "You can bring it with you. What do you want to do?" And she's like, "I'd bring it with me." What he realized, because at first, he thought that I was pulling back and giving, she would feel like I was coming in and she was getting less stuff. But what he didn't realize, what I knew as an educator and a preschool teacher for over 10 years, is that kids love autonomy. What she loved even more than saying, "Get what you want. No, not that. No, no, not that," is, "Here's your budget. It's $5. Get what you want as long as it's kid-appropriate," because now she had the power. There was no, "No, not that. She loves comparing prices. "This is $4.99. This is $3.32. If I get this and this... " And so, we would have those conversations all the time. I can remember the first time she learned about tax. Something was exactly $4.99. And she had $5. I knew there was going to be tax. I didn't say anything until we got to the register. And they told her like, "$5.12." And she was like, "I don't... I don't have 12 cents." I was like, "Well, things have tax. Taxes are used to build your school and the roads. And so, we pay them to make our state and our city better." And I remember she being like, "Oh, do I have to put it back?" And so, thankfully the lady behind... I had 12 cents obviously, but the lady behind the counter thought it was so adorable and gave her 12 cents. But she started to learn. Now, when she was buying ( her favorite place is Staples) she was buying her favorite gel pens or markers or coloring pencils, that she knew, okay... she calls me Tiffy when she was little. "Tiffy, how much is the tax going to be?" Because she wanted to integrate that into what her choices were. And now, she's a super savvy boss. When my book came out and they sent me them in the mail, Penguin Random House, my publisher, she saw them and she jumped up and down and she said, "Can I have one?" And I thought she just wanted to keep it, but I heard her tell her little girlfriend on the phone like, "Girl, my stepmother's book came in. I'm about to get my money all the way together." So, she has just become super savvy. She now does work for me at The Budgetnista. My sister's my publicist. She does work with my sister. You should see her mapping out how much she wants to make. She actually has a map on her wall of what she wants to make, what she wants to get with it. We elevated her to a piggy bank when she was 10 for saving, giving and spending. So, now she knows every time she gets money, she has to put it into those three categories. So, she has just grown into this super savvy, major budgetnista. And I'm proud of her because it all started when she was seven and I taught her what a budget was.

Insta quote #2- Tiffany the budgetnista Aliche educator and author (2).png

Tiffany’s Money Lesson

The lesson for my money story is it is important to teach kids in a teachable moment, when you have the opportunity. It's important to teach kids about money in real time. Make it meaningful for them, whether it's their favorite store and you explain how their $10 can only get so much. Do it consistently. And don't bring shame into it or judgment. I never made her feel bad about she didn't have enough or, "We don't have that kind of money." It's important. So, teach your children. Make it age-appropriate. Be consistent. And keep it positive.

Tiffany’s Everyday Money Tip

So, when I was a kid, I was quite clumsy, as I am now. And I would spill stuff all over the floor. My favorite was some kind of red juice on some sort of light-colored carpet or couch. And my dad, I am very much like him, is a natural fusser. You spill something, "Oh my goodness... " My dad and mom were born in Nigeria. "My goodness, you spilled again? We don't have juice. We don't have money to be cleaning carpets." So, you're all flustered. And my mom, when you spilled something, would just get up and hand you a paper towel. And I remember thinking, because I'm very much like my father, I would fuss at myself when I made mistakes. But I remember thinking, "You know what? After Daddy finishes fussing, he hands me a paper towel. So, why go through that middle anxiety and fussing and judgment? Why can't we just get to the paper towel?"And I really took that as a metaphor for life, that I want to be a paper-towel person, especially when it comes to my money. I spent too much on my credit card. "Oh my goodness, Tiffany... " No. Go get the paper towel. You know what? I'm going to put the credit card in my desk at home. I'm going to use the snowball method to pay it off. I'm going to automate it. That's the paper towel. Being a paper-towel person means that you're solution-focused, solution-oriented. You skip over the fussing because honestly, you got to give yourself the grace and the space to make mistakes and to find those solutions. So, be the paper towel.

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Bobbi’s Takeaways:

#1 - As I've aged, I have grown to appreciate something that Tiffany touches on: the limitations of robo-advisors and robo-everything. Yes, you will likely have to pay a human to give you advice. And people who are good at their job are well worth paying. And yes, some humans are unethical and will sell you things you don't need. So, it is buyer beware. But robo-advisors work on algorithms and fancy formulas and so on. And there's a lot of good there. But robos can't read into who you really are, what actually matters to you and have a conversation that might bring up financial needs, financial wants maybe even that you didn't realize you had, the nuances in our lives that sometimes don't come out in a questionnaire. It's chapter nine. Read more about what Tiffany has to say about getting humans involved.

#2 - Don't sit your kids down and have a formal lecture about money. Do it in the moment like Tiffany said because it is in that moment that the lesson will be real, relatable and most of all, memorable.

Buy Tiffany’s book, GET GOOD WITH MONEY today!

Insta quote #3- Tiffany the budgetnista Aliche educator and author (2).png

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Question for you guys. Are we ever going to get back to that whole dress-up-for-work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJs and those grungy t-shirts, and we need to give ourselves an upgraded-but-still-super-comfy wardrobe that makes us smile and ideally makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well. I have so many friends that I've wanted to send little pick-me-ups to, to let them know it's all good. And that includes you.

Bobbi Rebell:

So, that's why I created Grownup Gear, a fun line of t-shirts, sweats, pillows, mugs, totes and more that I guarantee will give you and everyone that you're Zooming with all day long a good giggle. Grownup Gear is about saying the things out loud that we tell ourselves silently, like when you wake up and you look in the mirror and you think, "I can't believe I'm a grownup either," or maybe you just want to be honest that you are still a grownup in progress or you want to send a gift congratulating a friend for paying off their debt. The most comfy sweatshirts, t-shirts, tote bags, mugs, pillows and more. Give it to yourself or your favorite grownup or almost-grownup friend.

Bobbi Rebell:

Go to grownupgear.com to check it out. For discount codes and sales, follow us on Instagram at our new handle, @grownupgear and DM us with any questions. And thank you because by supporting Grownup Gear, you help support this free podcast.

Tiffany Aliche :

When I would get speaking engagements, I would allow her to open the checks when they came because I wanted her to see that there are different ways to make income and certain ways pay more than others, so she had... because I didn't have a broad scope of what I could be.

Tiffany Aliche :

So, she would open it and say, "$500." And then it became 10,000. And then so when I got like a $1,500 check, she'd be like, "It's only 1,500." I'm like, "Only 1,500?" Because maybe the one before was 10,000. So, I let her see that because I wanted her to see that different things that I did paid different amounts of money.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, grownups, how many of you had parents who had you open up their paychecks? Definitely not me. But our financial grownup this week, Tiffany Aliche, known as The Budgetnista, didn't just do that; she talked to her bonus daughter about all the money stuff. Not just the paychecks that she was allowing her to open, as early as age seven; she talked to her about the taxes, the business deductions, the negotiations, the side hustles, the net profit and so much more. These ladies do business plans in their sleep.

Bobbi Rebell:

Welcome everyone to the Financial Grownup podcast. So, glad you guys are here. We talk with high-achieving grownups about money stories that inspired their lives and the lessons from them. And this week's financial grownup, Tiffany Aliche, is truly next-level. I joke with her that while most books these days are Money 101, hers, Get Good With Money, is Money 201 because she holds her readers to a higher standard and goes into the real grownup stuff. Not surprising, given her background in teaching preschool, where she sets kids as young as three up for success. You'll hear what she has to say about what kids that age should hear, when they say, "Buy me... " She pulls no punches.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tiffany has a thriving business, teaching money skills to thousands of Dream Catchers and co-hosts the Brown Ambition podcast with Mandi Woodruff. But as you will hear, this mega entrepreneur, wife and mother's biggest accolades may in fact come from the lessons she is teaching her step-daughter. Here is The Budgetnista, Tiffany Aliche.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tiffany Aliche, The Budgetnista, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tiffany Aliche :

Thank you so much, Bobbi with an "I".

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes. And congratulations on your book. I'm going to hold it up here, even though no one can see it, just because I feel good holding it up because I love the cover. Your book is Get Good with Money: Ten Simple Steps to Become Financially Whole. We're going to talk about it more later in the podcast, but give us just high-level what it's about.

Tiffany Aliche :

It's about financial wholeness, which is when these 10 core aspects of your financial life grow together and meld together to create the strongest financial foundation possible so you can build any financial house you want on top of it.

Bobbi Rebell:

And I love, when you read the book, you go along and you get percentages, so you feel like you're building to get to that 100%, which is great. Like I said, we're going to circle back to the book, but first I want to ask you your money story. And it has to do with your bonus baby, your daughter, your 14-year-old step-daughter. She was seven when you came into her life. And you had some interesting discussions about money. Tell us how your money conversations began and how they've evolved.

Tiffany Aliche :

So, they began because I just noticed that her father, every time we would go out shopping, food-shopping or whatever, she would always get a toy or something. And at first, I was like, "Did she get good grades today? Is it her birthday?" And I noticed that she just came to expect that, "If we're going someplace random, I'm going to get something." And I told him, "This is not the best way to raise a financially-savvy grownup." So, I told him instead, "Let's put her on a budget so we can give her the words."

Tiffany Aliche :

So, she would get birthday money or Christmas money. And so, I would tell her to save it. I got her a little piggy bank. And before we would go someplace, I would say, because I call her Supergirl, that's her nickname because I call her father, my husband, Superman. So, I would say, "Supergirl, we're going to Target today. What's your budget?" And she'd asked me like, "What does that mean?" I'm like, "The amount of money that you have to spend." And she would say, "I don't know. Whatever Daddy gives me." I'm like, "No, no. It's in your piggy bank." So, she would go and be like, "Oh, okay, I've got $5." I'm like, "You can bring it with you. What do you want to do?" And she's like, "I'd bring it with me."

Tiffany Aliche :

What he realized... because at first, he thought that I was pulling back and giving... she would feel like I was coming in and she was getting less stuff. But what he didn't realize, what I knew as an educator and a preschool teacher for over 10 years, is that kids love autonomy. What she loved even more than saying, "Get what you want. No, not that. No, no, not that," is, "Here's your budget. It's $5. Get what you want as long as it's kid-appropriate," because now she had the power. There was no, "No, not that."

Tiffany Aliche :

She loves comparing prices. "This is $4.99. This is $3.32. If I get this and this... " And so, we would have those conversations all the time.

Tiffany Aliche :

I can remember the first time she learned about tax. Something was exactly $4.99. And she had $5. I knew there was going to be tax. I didn't say anything until we got to the register. And they told her like, "$5.12." And she was like, "I don't... I don't have 12 cents." I was like, "Well, things have tax. Taxes are used to build your school and the roads. And so, we pay them to make our state and our city better." And I remember she being like, "Oh, do I have to put it back?" And so, thankfully the lady behind... I had 12 cents obviously, but the lady behind the counter thought it was so adorable and gave her 12 cents. But she started to learn like, "Oh... "

Tiffany Aliche :

So, now, when she was buying... her favorite place is Staples. She was buying her favorite gel pens or markers or coloring pencils, that she knew, okay... she calls me Tiffy when she was little. "Tiffy, how much is the tax going to be?" Because she wanted to integrate that into what her choices were.

Tiffany Aliche :

And now, she's a super savvy boss. When my book came out and they sent me them in the mail, Penguin Random House, my publisher, she saw them and she jumped up and down and she said, "Can I have one?" And I thought she just wanted to keep it, but I heard her tell her little girlfriend on the phone like, "Girl, my stepmother's book came in. I'm about to get my money all the way together." So, she has just become super savvy.

Tiffany Aliche :

She now does work for me at The Budgetnista. My sister's my publicist. She does work with my sister. You should see her mapping out how much she wants to make. She actually has a map on her wall of what she wants to make, what she wants to get with it. We elevated her to a piggy bank when she was 10 for saving, giving and spending. So, now she knows every time she gets money, she has to put it into those three categories. So, she has just grown into this super savvy, major budgetnista. And I'm proud of her because it all started when she was seven and I taught her what a budget was.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you also were very brave in that you were transparent with your money coming in and the costs associated with running a business. Tell us a little bit about why you did that because many parents hold back. We all hold back secret... I don't know if "secrets" is the right word, but we're not with our money, certainly to young people. And that was an interesting decision.

Tiffany Aliche :

Yeah. So, I used to allow her... when I would get speaking engagements, I would allow her to open the checks when they came because I wanted her to see that there are different ways to make income and certain ways pay more than others because I didn't have a broad scope of what I could be.

Tiffany Aliche :

So, she would open it and say, "$500." And then it became 10,000. And then so when I got like a $1,500 check, she'd be like, "It's only 1,500." I'm like, "Only 1,500?" Because maybe the one before was 10,000. So, I let her see that because I wanted her to see that different things that I did paid different amounts of money.

Tiffany Aliche :

And I remember, I think she was in fifth or sixth grade and she had to interview someone she admired. And she chose me because she wanted to be an entrepreneur. She wasn't sure what she wanted to be. I mean, she's sold lip gloss. She's made friendship bracelets. She's done a bunch of different... now, she's got a YouTube channel. Now, she's teaching adults how to use TikTok. It's like she's got a bunch of different businesses going.

Tiffany Aliche :

But I remember when I realized she was really getting it, because she was still young then, maybe eight or nine. And I explained to her how taxes worked. She heard me talking to her father about taxes. She asked me what they were. And I told her, "Similar to sales tax, taxes are when you pay some of the money that you earn to the government so they can use it to make our country better."

Tiffany Aliche :

And I said, "But when you're an entrepreneur, taxes work differently. When I was a teacher," I told her, "Before I even get my paycheck, the government takes their taxes." And she was like, "That's unfair." I'm like, "Many would say so." But I said, "But as an entrepreneur, when you see those paychecks, Supergirl, I get all my money. Then I can use that money to grow and maintain the business. And what's left over, I pay taxes on. That's why you see me save the receipts. I save the receipts so I can show the government, 'Hey, I spent money to run my business.'" She had a bag one day and it was 15 different receipts. And I'm like, "Well, what are these from?" She's like, "These are the receipts so you give to the government so you could show them that you spend money on the business." And I was like, "Well, they have to be receipts for my business." But the fact that at eight or nine that she was thinking like that was just really transformative.

Tiffany Aliche :

I was a school teacher before I started The Budgetnista. I've seen firsthand that a lot of parents think that it's not age-appropriate to teach financial education to kids. It's inappropriate not to. There are ways to do it in a way that's appropriate as young as three because typically by three or four or five, kids start to saying, "Mommy, Daddy, Auntie, Uncle, can you buy me... " not just, "Can I have... " So, once you hear that word "buy", they've already made the connection between stuff and money. You want to make sure it's the right connection.

Bobbi Rebell:

What is the lesson from your money story?

Tiffany Aliche :

The lesson for my money story is it is important to teach kids in a teachable moment, when you have the opportunity. It's important to teach kids about money in real time. Make it meaningful for them, whether it's their favorite store and you explain how their $10 can only get so much. Do it consistently.

Tiffany Aliche :

And don't bring shame into it or judgment. I never made her feel bad about she didn't have enough or, "We don't have that kind of money." It's important. So, teach your children. Make it age-appropriate. Be consistent. And keep it positive.

Bobbi Rebell:

So brilliant. You brought with you an everyday money tip that has to do with paper towels?

Tiffany Aliche :

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tell us. Tell us. This is great.

Tiffany Aliche :

So, when I was a kid, I was quite clumsy, as I am now. And I would spill stuff all over the floor. My favorite was some kind of red juice on some sort of light-colored carpet or couch. And my dad, I am very much like him, is a natural fusser. You spill something, "Oh my goodness... " My dad and mom were born in Nigeria. "My goodness, you spilled again? We don't have juice. We don't have money to be cleaning carpets." So, you're all flustered.

Tiffany Aliche :

And my mom, when you spilled something, would just get up and hand you a paper towel. And I remember thinking, because I'm very much like my father, I would fuss at myself when I made mistakes. But I remember thinking, "You know what? After Daddy finishes fussing, he hands me a paper towel. So, why go through that middle anxiety and fussing and judgment? Why can't we just get to the paper towel?"

Tiffany Aliche :

And I really took that as a metaphor for life, that I want to be a paper-towel person, especially when it comes to my money. I spent too much on my credit card. "Oh my goodness, Tiffany... " No. Go get the paper towel. You know what? I'm going to put the credit card in my desk at home. I'm going to use the snowball method to pay it off. I'm going to automate it. That's the paper towel. Being a paper-towel person means that you're solution-focused, solution-oriented. You skip over the fussing because honestly, you got to give yourself the grace and the space to make mistakes and to find those solutions. So, be the paper towel.

Bobbi Rebell:

Skip the drama. Find the solution.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's talk about this book because it is... this is a substantial book. Again, it's called Get Good with Money. One of my favorite things is you say something that has become somewhat controversial. In this age, where we are so focused on automating things... and some things should be automated, absolutely. We should automate our savings and things like that. But just because something, like certain apps, can automate investing doesn't mean you don't need the human touch. You really advocate for having a human involved. Tell us more about the belief and why we need to be more cognizant of it.

Tiffany Aliche :

No, absolutely. Because there's nuance with human beings that you don't get from just automating everything. And also too, it's really from people that you learn. So, if everything is automated and you automate your investments, that's great, but you don't really learn why something works. That's why we have teachers because it's through these teachers that you get to really learn why something works and how it works.

Tiffany Aliche :

It's critically important, depending on where you are in life, that you have actual people who have been there, done that to lean into, whether it's a CFP, whether it's an accountant. You may or may not need one. You might need an insurance agent. You might need an attorney. It all depends. But at the very least, I tell people to get themselves an accountability partner, someone that you can travel the financial journey with. It might be your work mom, it might be your sister, your cousin, but someone that you can link with that you can kind of share the struggles, that you can get accountability and encouragement from and someone who can help to normalize the process. I think human beings work best in community. And it's not something that goes away just because we're talking about money.

Bobbi Rebell:

I read so many books, Tiffany. And many of them are very good, but they're very much Money 101. This is, I feel, more Money 201. You're a former teacher. Well, you're really still a teacher, let's be honest. You hold people to a higher standard. You go into some much more sophisticated topics, but in an accessible way. Tell us about that decision to be a little bit more challenging and to be a little more ambitious with this book.

Tiffany Aliche :

Well, as a teacher, Bobbi, one of the things that we really learn is something called differentiated learning, that people learn differently. So, literally, when I taught, I had kids ages just turned three to turned five. So, that's like high school and college in the same classroom. So, I really had to learn how do I teach something in a way that doesn't offend the five-year-olds and they don't get bored and start tearing up the classroom, or it's not too heavy for the three-year-olds so they don't start tearing up the classroom. And so, I really mastered how do I speak to different ranges of folks.

Tiffany Aliche :

So, the first five steps in financial wholeness, Get Good with Money are really the foundational: budgeting, debt, credit, savings, learn to earn. But the next five really are a deeper dive. So, that's how I address that. I was like, "Okay, if you have that great super foundation, then here's where you're going to learn how to invest for retirement and wealth. Here's where you're going to learn how to make sure you get good with insurance, your net worth, getting your money team and estate planning." And so, I spoke to both of those levels by including both of them in the book. But I wanted to make sure that even if you're like, "You know what? I've got the super foundation," I really did deeper dives so you could learn something new, even if you were pretty good there. Or if you were ready to go to the next level and it was new to you, I really explained it in such a way that even if investing was new to you, that you could really learn.

Bobbi Rebell:

You did a great job. Where can people learn more about you and be in touch?

Tiffany Aliche :

So, you can learn more about me... I'm The Budgetnista on all social media platforms. And you can keep in touch and get the book at getgoodwithmoney.com.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much.

Tiffany Aliche :

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, my friends, here's my take. Financial grownup tip number one. As I've aged, I have grown to appreciate something that Tiffany touches on: the limitations of robo-advisors and robo-everything. Yes, you will likely have to pay a human to give you advice. And people who are good at their job are well worth paying. And yes, some humans are unethical and will sell you things you don't need. So, it is buyer beware. But robo-advisors work on algorithms and fancy formulas and so on. And there's a lot of good there. But robos can't read into who you really are, what actually matters to you and have a conversation that might bring up financial needs, financial wants maybe even that you didn't realize you had, the nuances in our lives that sometimes don't come out in a questionnaire. It's chapter nine. Read more about what Tiffany has to say about getting humans involved.

Bobbi Rebell:

Financial grownup tip number two. Don't sit your kids down and have a formal lecture about money. Do it in the moment like Tiffany said because it is in that moment that the lesson will be real, relatable and most of all, memorable.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, my friends. April is Financial Literacy Month and I'm giving away a ton of incredible money books, including Tiffany's. Want one? All you have to do is DM me on Instagram at @bobbirebell1 and just say, "I'd love a book from a financial grownup." The authors that are on this podcast and their publishers are incredibly generous. And I can't wait to send out lots and lots of books.

Bobbi Rebell:

And by the way, I was so honored to have the Financial Grownup podcast on Real Simple's list of the top 10 best finance podcasts for beginners, investors and everyone, along with Tiffany and Mandi's Brown Ambition podcast and many more really fantastic shows. I'll share the article in the show notes, which you can see on my website, bobbirebell.com. And I hope you'll make the time to check out some of the other great money podcasts on the list.

Bobbi Rebell:

Big thanks to Tiffany Aliche, The Budgetnista, for teaching us all how to be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:

The Financial Grownup podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell. But the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer. And Amanda Savan is our talent coordinator and content creator, so, yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:

Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. And this year, we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the grownup list. Go to bobbirebell.com to sign up for free. While you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear Shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:

Stay in touch on Instagram at @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter at @bobbirebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoyed the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grownup life.

Advice, Authors, Entrepreneurs, Family + Relationships, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursGuest Usertiffany aliche, the budgetnista, money education
How to Earn More and Worry Less with "Think Like a Breadwinner" Author Jennifer Barrett
How to Earn More and Worry Less with "Think Like a Breadwinner" Author Jennifer Barrett
Main Insta- Jen Barrett chief education officer acorns-How to Earn More and Worry Less with _Think Like a Breadwinner_ Author .png

Acorn’s Chief Education Officer Jennifer Barrett shares her own “wake up’ call’ when she learned to think like a breadwinner, and gives us specific strategies to build wealth and create a path to have the rich life we all deserve. 

Jennifer’s Money Lesson-

I think every woman would benefit from thinking like a breadwinner, from really basing our choices, the choices we make with our money and our career on the assumption that we should be able to provide the life that we want for ourselves without having to depend on someone else. If we make our money and career choices on that assumption, we will set ourselves up really nicely. Then if we need someone, whether or not we end up being the main earner is sort of irrelevant, but the most important thing is to think about what do I want in my life and what do I need to do financially, professionally to make that happen? One of the most important pieces of that is building wealth. So that means investing right off the bat as early as you can, as much as you can, because that is really the ticket to freedom. The more money that you have invested, the more freedom you have, because you are decreasing your dependency on each paycheck with the amount of money that you have growing for you. It just gives you so many more options. It means you can buy a house on your own, whether or not you're with somebody else. It means that if you lose a job, you are fine. You have that financial security net. It means if you want to have a baby on your own, you can afford that financially. It just gives you so many more choices with your life.

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Jennifer’s Money Tip-

I think it comes down to asking yourself the question, "Are the choices I'm making with my money bringing me closer or further away from the future I want?" That seems like such a basic question, but I still ask myself that a lot of times when I'm thinking about even small choices around my money. "Is this going to bring me closer to the future I want, or is this setting me back?" So it's a good question to ask yourself regularly, a good gut check.

Bobbi’s Tips-

Financial Grownup Tip #1-

Jen talked about how hard it is to negotiate. I've had the toughest time with this too so I want to recommend a book that made a huge difference to me. It's called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. He also has a masterclass if you like to watch videos and I can tell you, I watched it all and it is excellent.

Financial Grownup Tip #2-

Thinking like a breadwinner sadly is not optional. I have twice become the family breadwinner totally out of the blue and it was temporary, but let me tell you, it is a shock to the system. Like Jen, I never thought it would happen to me. You don't have to be the breadwinner, but you do have to be ready to step up if life throws you a curve ball. Jen's book will help you do just that, so definitely pick up a copy of Think Like a Breadwinner.

Get your copy of Think Like A Bread Winner by Jennifer Barrett

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Full Transcript:

Bobbie Rebell: Question for you guys. Are we ever going to get back to that whole dress up for work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJ's and those grungy tshirts, and we need to give ourselves an upgraded, but still super comfy, wardrobe that makes us smile, and ideally makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well. I have so many friends that I've wanted to send a little pick me ups to, to let them know it's all good, and that includes you. So that's why I created Grownup Gear, a fun line of t-shirts, sweats, pillows, mugs, totes, and more thaT I guarantee will give you and everyone that you're Zooming with all day long, a good giggle.

Bobbie Rebell: Grownup Gear is about saying the things out loud that we tell ourselves silently. Like when you wake up and you look in the mirror and you think, "I can't believe I'm a grownup either." Or maybe you just want to be honest that you are still a grownup in progress, or you want to send a gift congratulating a friend for paying off their debt. The most comfy sweatshirts, t-shirts, tote bags, mugs, pillows, and more. Give it to yourself or your favorite grownup, or almost grownup, friend. Go to grownupgear.com to check it out. For discount codes and sales, follow us on Instagram at our new handle, @grownupgear, and DM us with any questions. And thank you because by supporting Grownup Gear, you help support this free podcast.

Jen Barrett: Deep down. I really don't think I believed that I would be taking the lead financially at any point in my life. I really thought my husband would be the main earner. So it probably seemed less important to negotiate that salary, and then for the next seven years, I barely negotiated my raises.

Bobbie Rebell: You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbie Rebell: Hey, Grownups, this episode has been about five years in the making. I'll never forget sitting in a Midtown restaurant with my new friend, Jennifer Barrett. A mutual friend had introduced us thinking, "Well, you guys have a lot in common and maybe you guys will come up with some projects together." So we were brainstorming our two big ideas. For me, it was Financial Grownup and the idea of sharing money stories to inspire people to build the foundation for a wealthy life of choices, getting to live the life that they want. For Jen, it was the concept that we all had to, well, think like breadwinners. Jen had, and still has, I should say, what we call a big job. She really is the breadwinner and her job as the chief education officer at Acorns is intense and sometimes all consuming. But finally, her new book, Think Like a Bread Winner, A Wealth Building Manifesto For Women Who Want To Earn More and Worry Less is coming out.

Bobbie Rebell:I can tell all of you it has been well worth the wait. I was honored that Jen asked me to contribute to this book and to endorse it along with David Bach, Eve Rodsky, the author of Fairplay, Farnoosh Torabi, who by the way wrote When She Makes More, so thinking along the same path, and Erin Lowry, who's been a frequent guest on this podcast, author of the Broke Millennial books series, and many more. In our interview, Jen Barrett shares the story that started it all when she realized what she didn't want to admit. If she wanted to get what she wanted to get, she was going to have to start thinking like a breadwinner. Here is Jennifer Barrett.

Bobbie Rebell: Jen Barrett, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Barrett: Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbie Rebell: I'm so excited to talk to you about your new book. So many years in the making, we've been talking about this for years. It's finally here. Think Like A Breadwinner, A Wealth Building Manifesto For Women Who Want To Earn More and Worry Less. By the way, Jen, it's already getting reviews that are amazing. This one I'm going to read to people. It's from Ladders, which is a career website. "Jennifer Barrett's manifesto for working women transcends its goal by being more than a finance book, but a testament that anyone anywhere can achieve their goals with the right advice." Not bad, Jen.

Jen Barrett: Yeah, that was a nice review. It was nice to read.

Bobbie Rebell: You're very modest.

Jen Barrett: I know. You're so nervous. You're on pins and needles before the book comes out. You're like, "I hope they like it." So it was really nice to read that.

Bobbie Rebell: Well, I got a sneak peek of the book because I got to endorse it so everyone can read my blurb when they get the book. Before we talk more about it, though, you did bring with you a money story, which really inspired the book so many years ago. Tell us your money story, Jen.

Jen Barrett: Yeah, well, there's a material difference between being able to cover the bills and handle a budgets and building wealth that supports your life and the future you want. That difference became super clear to me just after we'd had our oldest son. At the time, I was in my early 30s and we were sharing a small one bedroom apartment with our toddler who was about 18 months old. One night I was pacing back and forth with him, trying to get him back to sleep, and I think it just hit me so hard in that moment that we were in a situation that was just completely unsustainable.

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Jen Barrett: I had this moment of, "Wait a second. I thought I was doing everything right financially." I had a little 401k. I had a little bit of savings. I was paying half the bills. But what I realized was that I hadn't been putting money away for the things that were most important to me, and that was being able to have another child, to afford to buy a place or even to move into a bigger apartments because we lived in Brooklyn, which is not cheap. I did some real soul searching and asked myself, "Why didn't I make those choices with my money to save more and to invest more?" I realized that subconsciously I had been thinking that my husband would take the lead there. In that moment, I think it finally dawned on me how precarious an assumption that is. So I asked myself in the days that followed, "How would the choices I make with my money and my career be different if I had been raised to think like a breadwinner?"

Jen Barrett: That's what sort of set me off on a whole new journey and brought me to where I am today, more than a decade later, which is a much better place financially. We have a larger home. I helped with most of the down payment. We have two lovely sons now. I've had both a career and been able to build the kind of wealth that I couldn't have even imagined 12 years ago when I had that wake up call.

Bobbie Rebell: Tell us more about what you were doing before you had that wake up call, what kind of job you had. Because you had a really good job that a lot of people would be very, very envious of and really admire. I mean, you were high achieving and then the things that you looked for in the next job, besides obviously paying more. I know there was a lot of soul searching about sort of what people would think, because we're both journalist backgrounds, there's a lot of judgment there.

Jen Barrett: Yeah, and I think that's an important point is just because you have a good job doesn't mean that you have your finances together. You can be a professional success and feel like a financial failure. I interviewed more than 100 women for the book and I did find that to be the case with a surprising number of women who were otherwise very successful. So I think I was in sort of the same situation but with one crucial distinction, which is I was an editor at Newsweek at that point a pretty big weekly news magazine. It has since sort of gone under and been reborn and it's not quite the same as it used to be, but it was a great job. I really looked like I had it all together from the outside, but I was really living paycheck to paycheck for the most part.

Jen Barrett: We say paycheck to paycheck, but what I was was broke, right? I only had a few hundred dollars in my savings. I was still paying down some credit card debt. So if you looked at my actual net worth, I was in negative territory and I really wasn't making the kinds of choices or making the kinds of money that would allow me to support the life that I really wanted. One big reason for that, which is almost embarrassing to admit now and I've since changed my approach with this significantly, is that I had never negotiated my salary. So when I got the job at Newsweek, I was just so thrilled to be hired there I literally did not even think to negotiate. I do think part of that was that I was so excited to be hired there, but the other part of it was deep down I really don't think I believed that I would be taking the lead financially at any point in my life.

Jen Barrett: I really thought my husband would be the main earner and so it probably seemed less important to negotiate that salary. Then for the next seven years, I barely negotiated my raises. So one other critical moment for me was I came back from maternity leave and I found out that someone had been hired who had just a few more years experience than me in a very similar role and they were making 50% more than me. That moment was like ... It was so crushing that I vowed I would never ever make that mistake again and I was going to negotiate the hell out of every job offer and raise that I got from that point on, and it made me sort of reassess this idea I had about loyalty and about employers just taking care of you because you're doing a great job. It was a real wake up call in that sense too, where I realized I need to advocate for myself. I need to show my value. I need to ask for it and not assume that I'm going to get it just because I'm doing a good job.

Bobbie Rebell: So you set out to get a job that paid more. Tell us what that job was and how that onboarding went.

Jen Barrett: Yeah. So I was hired in my first job in management. I became the director of a health site. It was part of NBC. It was called iVillage Health. It was a huge site at the time. I think one of the top five largest health sites for women. It was a dramatic increase in the amount of responsibility I had, but also in my salary. So I ended up making almost double what I had ... Actually, no. More than double what I had been making at Newsweek and in between there I freelanced, and when I was freelancing, I really understood that I had undervalued myself and my skills because I was able to make a lot more freelancing than I had in my full-time job at Newsweek. So that was also a realization and a validation of the fact that the skills that I had were valuable. Then with this job, it both provided a lot more income. It allowed me to get the mortgage and it also put me on the management track, which I have been on ever since.

Bobbie Rebell: Jen, what was your husband thinking while this was going on? Did you have talks about this?

Jen Barrett: We did and I think part of it was when he and I first started dating, he was working at a startup at the time and was making a lot more than I was as a reporter. But I think that's where some of the assumptions sort of got set in my head. The startup went under and then he moved back to journalism. So he took a pretty big pay cut and suddenly our salaries were much closer than they have been. But I think in my head, I still kept telling myself that that was a temporary situation. I still expected him to earn considerably more than me, even as the evidence started to mount that that may not be the case, particularly with both of us being in journalism. We did have some discussions around that and in particular, when I got that job in management at that point, he was on contract.

Jen Barrett: So we realized that my income and my income prospects were probably greater at that particular point. Certainly I was the one who had secured the mortgage in part because I had a full-time job and it's very difficult when you are on contract to get approved. So we realized that my income was really critical to the household and so that launched a whole series of discussions about how is this going to work. I'm not going to say it was easy. We had to have a lot of really difficult discussions because I was pregnant with our second son when I moved into the breadwinner role. In my mind, again, I thought, "Oh, this is sort of a temporary situation where I'm going to take on this really demanding role so we can get the mortgage. I'll keep doing this."

Jen Barrett: Then I found I really enjoyed it. I realized I really am quite ambitious and so I wasn't sure I wanted to give up that role, but at the same time, for a while I was also trying to be the primary caregiver and that, as anyone who has tried to do both can tell you, is almost impossible to sustain. So it led to some really emotional and candid conversations with my husband about what role are we each going to take here and how are we going to divide all the responsibilities, household responsibilities, caregiving, breadwinning, in a way that feels fair to each of us?

Bobbie Rebell: Jen, what is the lesson from your story?

Jen Barrett: I think every woman would benefit from thinking like a breadwinner, from really basing our choices, the choices we make with our money and our career on the assumption that we should be able to provide the life that we want for ourselves without having to depend on someone else. If we make our money and career choices on that assumption, we will set ourselves up really nicely. Then if we need someone, whether or not we end up being the main earner is sort of irrelevant, but the most important thing is to think about what do I want in my life and what do I need to do financially, professionally to make that happen? One of the most important pieces of that is building wealth.

Jen Barrett: So that means investing right off the bat as early as you can, as much as you can, because that is really the ticket to freedom. The more money that you have invested, the more freedom you have, because you are decreasing your dependency on each paycheck with the amount of money that you have growing for you. It just gives you so many more options. It means you can buy a house on your own, whether or not you're with somebody else. It means that if you lose a job, you are fine. You have that financial security net. It means if you want to have a baby on your own, you can afford that financially. It just gives you so many more choices with your life.

Bobbie Rebell: You also brought with you in everyday money tip.

Jen Barrett: Yeah, I think it comes down to asking yourself the question, "Are the choices I'm making with my money bringing me closer or further away from the future I want?" That seems like such a basic question, but I still ask myself that a lot of times when I'm thinking about even small choices around my money. "Is this going to bring me closer to the future I want, or is this setting me back?" So it's a good question to ask yourself regularly, a good gut check.

Bobbie Rebell: It's a very good gut check and I think it's something that sounds easy, but we don't really do that a lot. We don't usually just kind of pause and sit down and really think about that and maybe even write down a few things that we want to do. I find when you write things down, sometimes they stick a little bit better. I don't know. All right, we got to shift gears because I don't want to run out of time and we have to talk about Think Like A Breadwinner because this is a book that has been in the making for quite a long time, because it is so well researched, Jen. You spent a lot of time doing the work here and the book is chock-full of statistics that are ... Some of them would just blow my mind. If you could share with us just one statistic that's sort of your elevator pitch to get this book, what is that one stat that stands out?

Jen Barrett: Well, I think one of the most significant stats is that half of moms in this country today are contributing at least 40% of the total household earnings. That's according to the latest Institute for Women's Policy Research report. That just reinforces the fact that women's income is absolutely critical right now. I think we saw that when women started dropping out of the workforce. We could see what the impact was going to be, not just on families, but on the economy.

Bobbie Rebell: A lot of this book was already done before the pandemic, but you were still finishing it up during the pandemic. What is in the book now that would not have been pre-pandemic?

Jen Barrett: The pandemic reminded us of how important it is to take charge of our finances and to build the kind of savings and wealth that provide financial security and help us weather tough times like this. So that message of taking care of yourself and putting money into an investment account and building wealth to support you not just now but in the future is more important than ever.

Bobbie Rebell: So well said. Jen, where can people catch up with you? I know that your book is going to be everywhere.

Jen Barrett: I hope so. You can find me at jenniferbarrett.com and you can read more about the book there, and then I'm on social media all over the place. It's @jbarrettNYC on Instagram, Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn.

Bobbie Rebell: All the places.

Jen Barrett: Oh, the places. Clubhouse. Yes.

Bobbie Rebell: Yes, Clubhouse. Let's not forget that. Thanks, Jen.

Jen Barrett: Thank you.

Bobbie Rebell: Here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one. Jen talked about how hard it is to negotiate. I've had the toughest time with this too so I want to recommend a book that made a huge difference to me. It's called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. He also has a masterclass if you like to watch videos and I can tell you, I watched it all and it is excellent. Financial Grownup tip number two, thinking like a breadwinner sadly is not optional. I have twice become the family breadwinner totally out of the blue and it was temporary, but let me tell you, it is a shock to the system. Like Jen, I never thought it would happen to me. You don't have to be the breadwinner, but you do have to be ready to step up if life throws you a curve ball. Jen's book will help you do just that, so definitely pick up a copy of Think Like a Breadwinner.

Bobbie Rebell: One thing I do, I always try to think of new revenue streams. My latest is Grownup Gear. You can see more about it at grownupgear.com. I hope you'll support it by checking out the merchandise. It's perfect for all of your grownup milestones. Gifts for graduation, new parents, mother's day, father's day, a new home, birthdays, or just celebrating being a grownup and kind of owning it. Discount codes available on my Instagram @bobbirebell1. Another reason to follow me on Instagram, we will be giving away copies of Jen's book and of other authors on the show. This spring, so many amazing authors are on tap and they're generously giving gifts to our Grownup community. I also want to invite everyone to join our weekly Friday at 1:00 PM Clubhouse chats in the Money Tips For Grownups club. DM me on Instagram if you need and invite to Clubhouse. Big thanks to Jen Barrett for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbie Rebell: The Financial Grownup Podcast is a production of BRK media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer, and Amanda Savan is our talent coordinator and content creator. So yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels. Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. This year we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books.

Bobbie Rebell: To get yours, make sure you are on the Grownup list. Go to bobbirebell.com to sign up for free. While you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a financial grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram @bobbirebell1and on Twitter @bobbirebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com and if you enjoyed the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grownup life.

Advice, Authors, Business, Career, Entrepreneurs, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Financial Independence, Get Paid More, Journalists, Money, Personal Finance, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsGuest UserJennifer Barrett, chief education officer acorns, think like a breadwinner, author, build wealth, asking for a raise, the life we deserve
Lessons learned from when your income goes poof! With Recalculating author Lindsey Pollak
Lessons learned from when your income goes poof! With Recalculating author Lindsey Pollak

Author Lindsey Pollak watched her thriving speaking career hit a wall when the pandemic hit a year ago. The career and workplace expert realized she had ignored her own advice, and had all her eggs in one basket. Lindsey gets refreshingly candid about how bad it got, what she did, and how we can all do better. 

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Financial Grownup Tip #1: Social media is more than social. Certainly during the pandemic depending on your business,  it has become an important tool for your career. Take the time to master the ones that fit your business. It’s not just about being social- it is about career success -and sometimes survival as well.

Financial Grownup Tip #2- If you are on social media- don’t forget to participate. Staying on the sidelines will keep you there. So for example, if you are in clubhouse- raise your hand and add to the conversation. By the way, it is invitation only but I do have invites so DM me if you need one. And please join my club on clubhouse- Money Tips for Grownups. I’d love to connect with you there. 

Buy your copy of Recalculating : Navigate Your Career Through The Changing World of Work.


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Full Transcript-

Bobbi Rebell: Go to grownupgear.com and be sure to check my Instagram, @bobbirebell1, for discount codes. And thank you for supporting this venture and for supporting the podcast.

Lindsey Pollak : I had a fully booked calendar and a lot of deposits. And within a two week period, I lost six figures in speaking bookings. And my calendar went from completely full to completely empty.

Bobbi Rebell: You're listening to financial grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell: It's been a year guys. If you want to get technical, it's been a year and about a week. Although most of us, frankly, lost count of the days and didn't even know which day of the week it was for a while. The pandemic put so many of our lives on hold and so many of our businesses in the tank.

Bobbi Rebell: For people who make their living talking to people in-person, they went from thriving to, well, there's no cute pun here. The business died. There was nothing there. For my friend, Lindsey Pollak, who is a top speaker and bestselling author, ironically in the career space, her career literally went poof last March with no end in sight.

Bobbi Rebell: This was literally unchartered territory for pretty much anyone alive these days. Two weeks to stop the spread was one thing, but getting back to packed rooms with over 1,000 people as she was used to, yeah, crickets. Even now. Lindsey agreed to share her experience with us in the hopes that many of us can at least relate to and get some solace from her experiences.

Bobbi Rebell: She also has, as she always has, great and specific advice on how we can better be prepared for the future and the unimaginable. She also managed to write a fantastic book in quarantine. It is called Recalculating: Navigate Your Career Through the Changing World of Work. we do a little sneak peak at the end of our interview. Here is Lindsey Pollak. Lindsey Pollak, you are a financial grownup and welcome back to the show.

Lindsey Pollak : It is an honor to be back for the second time. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell: We're going to talk about your new book, which was written in quarantine and has a lot of really relevant advice for anyone who is thinking of recalculating. That's also the name of the book. But first you brought us a very relevant story that happened to you just when quarantine was starting. And sadly, too many of us can relate to this. Tell us your money story, Lindsey.

Lindsey Pollak : I'd be happy to. So, like many people in March of 2020, everything stopped and everything changed. And I think we hear about food service people and certain jobs that you know would be destroyed by the pandemic or pushed off. Professional speakers were in that category.

Lindsey Pollak : I had at that time, been doing about 70 to 80 live speaking events per year. And I had a fully booked calendar and a lot of deposits. And within a two week period, I lost six figures. I can't even say it. I stumble on the words. I lost six figures in speaking bookings and my calendar went from completely full to completely empty.

Bobbi Rebell: Just to explain how speaking works, you had deposits. How does the contract work? Did you have to return all the deposits or did they reschedule or was it just gone?

Lindsey Pollak : So, you know what's interesting is, my contract said that the deposits were nonrefundable and that we would make our best efforts to reschedule if something got canceled. Several people took me up on that, I will say, and let me keep the deposits.

Lindsey Pollak : Several requested for their own financial difficulties to return it and I made the decision to do that, to keep the relationships because I understood that people were in really tough times. So I did return them. So it sort of went beyond the contract. And for anything that had been booked, but not yet paid, of course, that just disappeared. Bobbi Rebell: So then what?

Lindsey Pollak : It was tough. And I'll tell you a couple of things, because it's a financial podcast. Number one, just by luck, about a year before my bookkeeper had said, "You really need to have a credit line for your business." I had contacted my bank, Chase Bank, and gotten a very significant credit line because I have good credit that I'm extremely proud of. It's one of the proudest things in my life that I have good credit. And I got a significant six-figure credit line, which saved me.

Lindsey Pollak : I paid it all back ultimately over time, but having that fund to dip into to make sure that I could continue to pay my assistant and my rent and so on. I cut back on expenses tremendously, and I started reaching out. And it's really interesting as I didn't have a plan for where the money would come from, but I've always relied on the fact that relationships are where opportunities come from.

Lindsey Pollak : And I just called people, checked in, "How are you doing? What's going on? How are you?" I mean, for about four weeks, it was just, "Oh my gosh, what's happening?" And slowly but surely, a relationship with a UK firm that had been pending for a while, took off. Slowly but surely, people who had never booked for years were like, "Hey, could you do a session on how to work remotely?" And I was like, "Yes, I can." That had been one slide in my presentation. And now, suddenly that became a presentation.

Lindsey Pollak : It was nowhere near what I had projected for the year, but the year turned out okay. And this miracle moment was on May 5th. I'll never remember. I got an email from my agent about something totally different. And at the very bottom of the email, she said, "And by the way, do you think you might want to write a book during this pandemic experience? I feel like you might have something to say." And that one sentence turned into Recalculating, which we're here today to talk about.

Bobbi Rebell: So perfect. So you basically pivoted from doing speaking to going back to book writing, which you were always doing. This is I think number four, number five? I can't keep track of you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Pollak : I think of them like children and I had been writing a book every five years. And I had written the remix last year in 2019. And I say it's like my accidental fourth child. I didn't mean to have a child so quickly after my third, but so it happens. Bobbi Rebell: Well, it's a wonderful book. We're going to talk about it soon, but tell me what is the lesson for our listeners from this?

Lindsey Pollak : It's something that I think is such a cliche, but true. Necessity is the mother of invention. I was a speaker. I was like, I'm a speaker. That's what I do. And I realized I can't only be a speaker.

Lindsey Pollak : And when I look at the people I most admire in my world, people like you, it's do you have a podcast? Do you have online courses? Do you have newsletters? Do you get paid to write? And what I remembered is sometimes you go back to basics, which I think is the other lesson.

Lindsey Pollak : When I was first starting out, I didn't make enough money from speaking. So I was freelance writing. I was coaching. I was doing resume reviews. I was doing anything I could. And I realized I have to get back into that mindset that I'm not "just a speaker." And that's what led to these other opportunities.

Lindsey Pollak : Now, I don't want to say it was easy. I don't want to say I wasn't scared, or I didn't stay up at night, or I wasn't uncomfortable dipping into my savings or my credit line, which I did do. But ultimately, what got me through it, was going back to basics and realizing I have to get creative.

Bobbi Rebell: Looking back, what would you have done differently in terms of setting up your life? Would you have diversified your business more in advance?

Lindsey Pollak : Yes. Sometimes success is not so good because you get so deep into one area that you put all your eggs in one basket. And what's really funny is I've advised job seekers for years, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Even if you're happily employed, keep your network going. Don't just apply for jobs in one field." And I had to take my own advice.

Bobbi Rebell: Very well said. And it's good to know that even people far along and super successful in their careers, sometimes have to take their own advice, which they move past. I love this. You brought with you an everyday money tip and I'm going to give a little bit of a spoiler. One part of this made you $2,000 in just extra cash. Tell us your everyday money tip because this is so fascinating. I had no idea this was such a big thing.

Lindsey Pollak : Okay. So at my heart, I grew up in Norwalk, Connecticut, the burbs. I am just a suburban girl. And in my high school, I remember they had all these categories, best dressed, best looking, all that. There was informal stuff that we would just send around to be silly.

Lindsey Pollak : And mine was most likely to drive a station wagon in the suburbs. Which by the way, I have not done, but my money tip was to clip coupons. And in the old days, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and she had an envelope. Right. And she would hand the coupons to the checkout person. And apparently, I used to play that at home, handing the coupons to the checkout person. Bobbi Rebell: I think we all did.

Lindsey Pollak : I think we all did. Right. Bobbi Rebell: My mom definitely had the coupons. And a whole organizer. There was a coupon organizer box.

Lindsey Pollak : Oh yeah. A little box. Bobbi Rebell: And she would organize what she was going to bring that day. And you were waiting for the double coupon day.

Lindsey Pollak : And here we are, talking about personal finances on a podcast. So, the modern day version of that, it used to be called Ebates. Now it's called Rakuten. Rakuten is I have this little widget on my browser and on my phone that tells me that I can get cash back if you shop through Ebates or Rakuten.

Lindsey Pollak : And over the past several years, I've made $2,000 using that little widget to get little discounts on things. And yeah, of course, I look like, "Ooh, that's fine. I can get a little bit more cash back than if I shop at such and such." And it's funny. I always did it. My husband would make fun of me like, "Ooh, you got your $7.53 check today." And then I looked and I saw, wow, over a few years, I've made $2,000 back and that's real money.

Bobbi Rebell: And that was basically on money you were probably going to spend anyway. Now you might've chosen one retailer over another because of it, but still, it's money.

Lindsey Pollak : Target is my favorite one. The Target app I've saved, I think $110. We've been quarantining in Connecticut. And I think I've saved $110 this year, which is only $10 a month, but hey, I used that credit for other good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell: Oh, absolutely. So I have in my hand, my early copy. This is one of my favorite perks of doing this podcast. I have an early copy of Recalculating: Navigate Your Career Through the Changing World of Work, which you wrote during quarantine. So, tell us what is different now, both in quarantine and hopefully, very soon as we emerge from quarantine, in terms of how we recalculate our careers and our life?

Lindsey Pollak : The first thing to think about is, recalculating is not one thing that you do in a moment and then it's over. Right. It's not like a fork in the road. I think we all need to be re-skilling, up-skilling pivoting, diversifying all the things that we talked about in my own story.

Lindsey Pollak : What we've learned through COVID is you cannot coast. Right. You can't just say, "Well, I'm comfortable where I am and I'm going to keep moving forward." You probably never could. But I think we all know that now more than ever.

Lindsey Pollak : And a really important piece of that, that I know you're so good at and is important to you, is if you're not getting good at virtual communication, and remote communication, and email, and texting, and Slack, and social media, you are not keeping up with the tools that you need to have to succeed now and into the future. It's no longer a nice to have. It's an absolute must have skill.

Bobbi Rebell: Yes, I am always learning different things. I mean, for example, right now, I started this merch store and I had to learn all this stuff about how to connect it to Instagram and so on. But it's actually really fun and you feel very accomplished. So, technical skills and learning new ways of doing business is very important.

Bobbi Rebell: And on that note, a lot of people have questions about how to use social media differently while we're in this pandemic, because it does become more important when we can't be social in person. Right.

Lindsey Pollak : Absolutely. But I think there are parallels. And so, the parallels are you've got to remember that each social network, if you're looking at it from a professional standpoint, like networking to find a job or new clients. Just like it's different to chat with people at the supermarket than to chat with people at a black tie gala, you have to see the social networks as different. You can't be the same or use the same language and style, or even necessarily profile photo, on Twitter as you would on LinkedIn, or on Instagram, or on Clubhouse, or what have you. So, number one is to acknowledge that they're all different.

Lindsey Pollak : Number two is I think you do use them in the same way you would in-person networking. So, you and I, let's say, may bond on Facebook because you're wearing a cute shirt or I see a cute picture of your son. I'm not going to say, "Do you have a job." Or, "Can I send you my resume?" I'm going to say, "Hey, great photo. Hey, do you want to get together and talk sometime about work stuff?" It's an entry point, just as if I saw you on the sidelines of a soccer game, we would talk about the game. I wouldn't start to launch into my sales pitch.

Lindsey Pollak : So, I think that social media should be seen as these personal moments where you might "bump into somebody." And then you take it to the next level off of that social network to have the professional conversation. LinkedIn is a bit different. I think LinkedIn is like a professional conference where people go, no one's going to be offended if you try to network professionally on LinkedIn. That's the point. It's like being at a conference. But for all the other sites, it's about building and solidifying real, authentic, personal relationships. And then you take the conversation elsewhere after that. Bobbi Rebell: And what do you think about Clubhouse? Because you're very successful on Clubhouse. I love dropping in on the rooms that you're in and the conversations. What's your take and your advice to people on how to use Clubhouse?

Lindsey Pollak : So that's a really good example of like, "I don't know, I'll give it a try. This is a new thing, and I'm going to try it." And I wasn't sure. To me, it's like a mix between listening to the radio and dropping in on a podcast or a webinar. But sometimes you get to talk.

Lindsey Pollak : What's absolutely amazing to me is how much free advice is there. I'm providing it myself. I do a career chat every Wednesday at one o'clock with a bunch of career experts and people just ask their questions. And what's really cool is, not only do we give our thoughts or advice, but other people on the call can raise their hand and say, "Hey, I know somebody." Or, "Oh, I have an idea for you."

Lindsey Pollak : And so, what's happening is like these conference moments in the Clubhouse app. So I'd really encourage people to give it a try. And if it's not for you, it's not for you, but it's just another tool where you might bond. And just funny things like bumping into each other. I was on it yesterday. I went to graduate school in Australia at this school called Monash University, which is just outside of Melbourne. Most people have never heard of it.

Lindsey Pollak : There was a woman on the call who had gone to Monash University and had moved to the United States. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, you're kidding." And we met on Clubhouse. So you just never know what kinds of moments like that can happen wherever you decide to show up, but you have to decide to show up.

Bobbi Rebell: Absolutely. So, everyone should follow Lindsey on Clubhouse. And also me. I'm on Clubhouse too.

Lindsey Pollak : Yeah. Bobbi Rebell: And I'm still learning the ropes, but I'm having a great time on it too. So, please follow both of us. Your book Recalculating: Navigate Your Career Through the Changing World of Work is going to be available everywhere, March 23rd. Where can people get in touch with you?

Lindsey Pollak : So my website is my name, lindseypollock.com. I'll spell it for you because it's a doozy. L-I-N-D-S-E-Y-P-O-L-L-A-K. I'm the only one in the world who spells it that exact way. And I'd be delighted to connect with anyone there or on social media.

Bobbi Rebell: Thank you so much.

Lindsey Pollak : Thank you, Bobbi. Bobbi Rebell: Here we go. Financial grownup tip number one. Social media is a lot more than social these days. Certainly during the pandemic, depending on your business, it became an important tool for your career. Take the time to master the onesthat fit your business. It's not just about being social. It is about career success and sometimes career survival as well.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial grownup tip number two. If you are on social media, don't forget to participate. Staying on the sidelines will keep you there. So for example, if you are in Clubhouse, raise your hand and add to the conversation. By the way, it is invitation only, but I do have invites, so DM me if you need one. And please join my club on Clubhouse, Money tips for Grownups. I'd love to connect with you there.

Bobbi Rebell: If you enjoy the podcast, please take a screenshot and share it on social media. And if you tag me, @bobbirebell1, that will also enter you into our book and merch giveaways. I also want to encourage everyone to pre-order a copy of Recalculating: Navigate Your Career Through the Changing World of Work by Lindsey Pollak. It is a bit complicated, but it really helps Lindsey if you pre-order it.

Bobbi Rebell: And this episode is dropping about a week before it's released, so you still have a week to get it done. And it is truly a big deal to Lindsey, so thank you for doing that. I promise you will love it. And big thanks to my friend, Lindsey Pollak, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell: The Financial Grownup podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our editor and producer. And Amanda Savan is our talent coordinator and content creator. So yeah, that means she does the show notes you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell: Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. And this year, we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours, make sure you are on the grownup list. Go to bobbirebell.com to sign up for free.

Bobbi Rebell: While you're there, please check out our Grownup Gear shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a financial grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter,

@ bobbirebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoy the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcast. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grown-up life.

Advice, Authors, Business, Career, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Productivity, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsGuest Userrecalculating, lindsey pollak, keynote speaker, author, pandemic, speaking career, refresh
Awkward career moments and how to get through them with dignity with Super Woman author Nicole Lapin (ENCORE)
Awkward career moments and how to get through them with dignity with Super Woman author Nicole Lapin (ENCORE)
Nicole Lapin Instagram

Journalist and author Nicole Lapin shares a hilarious story of how a lack of preparation almost led to total humiliation.  Plus why procrastination can be a good thing for financial grownups.


Nicole’s Money Story:

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. I started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc when I was 18 years old, and when I was asked if I knew anything about money news or business news, I totally lied, and I faked it till I made it. And then I had to become real, because I found that money is just a language like anything else, and I could not speak that language. So I was going to interview the founders of a tech company at the time and my boss, who was awesome, said to me as I ran out the door, and I would always carry like a big diaper bag, almost combat ready with all sorts of stuff, like a poncho just in case, from my time in actual general news, I didn't know what would happen. I was combat ready. And he was like, "Do you have the P&L?" You know, a lot of people call me NL or Lapin for short.

Nicole Lapin:
And I was like, "No dude, I'm good. I don't need to pee." And I get to the interview and the PR person was like, "Do you have the P&L?" And I'm like, okay, think, Lapin, think. She is not asking you if you need to pee, this must be a money term. I sit down with the founders, and they're like, our profits, as you can see from our P&L, you know, blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, okay, has to do with profits, think, think, think. Profits. L, losses. And I kept saying PnL, like Kibbles 'n Bits, and I didn't even know it was an and. Like, I just was so clueless, and that was a great example of how I had to think about this right on the spot and definitely was not prepared.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so what happened? How did this play out? Did you have an aha moment in the middle of the interview?

Nicole Lapin:
I had the aha moment, and I knew enough that it had to do with their balance sheet, and so I could sort of dance around it and get through the interview. Then after that I wrote down PnL, like N for Nicole, and then it took me another hot minute to realize there was an and sign. It was like profits and losses.

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, did you confess to anyone? Did you tell your boss, "I didn't know what that meant," or did you just keep going?

Nicole Lapin:
No, no, no, no, no. I just had super intense imposter syndrome, and I just thought everyone was going to figure out that I didn't know what I was talking about, and I would have never, ever admitted at the time that I couldn't speak this language. I only now can talk about this, very gladly in hindsight. I love making fun of myself with the most embarrassing money stories, but no, definitely not at the time.

“Money is an intimidating language. It’s ok if you can’t speak the language. Just ask what something means.”

Nicole’s Money Lesson:

Nicole Lapin:
I think realizing that money is an intimidating language. We just don't have a Rosetta Stone for this growing up. And it's okay if you can't speak the language. Just ask what something means. I've talked to COs of major publicly traded companies who have asked me like what does [inaudible 00:06:00] mean, for example, like right before we went on the air, and I was like, "Dude, it's just the bond buyback program." Like, no big deal. And they were like, "Yeah, I just didn't know the terminology." And so there's lots of terminology that sounds confusing. If you went to China and you didn't speak Chinese, you'd be confused. If you went to Wall Street and you didn't speak the language of money, you would be confused, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you're saying that, because so many of us kind of nod and pretend we understand something and maybe make decisions that we shouldn't make, because we don't want to admit that we don't get it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah, totally. And you're definitely not alone. I think a lot of people smile and nod and don't join basic money conversations because they're too intimidated and too scared to admit that they don't know what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And by the way, your website and your books are a tremendous resource for understanding a lot of this stuff.

“I aim for progress and not perfection. If I have more good days than bad days then I am totally winning.”

Nicole’s Money Tip:

Nicole Lapin:
I like to rethink conventional financial wisdom, conventional business wisdom. And yes, you're right. I rewrite financial dictionaries and business dictionaries. I did it in the back of Rich (beep) and Boss (beep). This is maybe why I'm single. But at the end of every chapter in every book, I rethink conventional wisdom to hopefully help you think for yourself. And procrastination is often used as a bad word. It's used as something that you should avoid, but I actually think that you can not fully procrastinate, because it's so cathartic to cross out all the things on your to-do list, like, here we go, dry cleaning, you know, pick up this, blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, those things might not move you towards your goals. So if you remind yourself of what you're working toward and what you have to do and almost connect the dots, I came up with a Super Woman journal that's a companion journal along with Becoming Super Woman to help you do that throughout the day, and I create this point system that's almost like a weight loss sort of system that allows you to give yourself points for things you're focusing on and forgive yourself first if you're not focusing on just the then and there. Because I think we can have it all. We just can't do it all, especially not at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And another thing that I love about the book is you have these really compelling quotes. For example, related to what we were just talking about, you have a quote from Mark Twain, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow," which makes a lot of sense when you really think about the reasoning behind it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. If you have to pick up your dry cleaning or something, and you need to get something done that will move you toward making your side hustle your full time hustle, I would do that and then get your dry cleaning, unless you really have like nothing, nothing to wear. I would do that later on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing in the book that I love is that you have not just a to-do list, but a have done list.

Nicole Lapin:
Yes. Because, you know, we often get into this mode of we've just not accomplished anything, and we're not doing anything compared to everybody else on Instagram. And I think comparison is the thief of joy, and also we tend to compare ourselves to the best version of each aspect of our lives. So we compare our fitness regime to a fitness blogger who works out five hours a day, or our mommy life to that of a mommy YouTuber who bakes bread for her kids and homeschools them. That's not realistic. And so if we get into that cycle and we don't have the definition of what success is to us, we often feel inadequate. We shouldn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, we should not feel inadequate. But one thing that you also work through in the book is you have specific plans for people to organize and get towards those goals in a realistic way, not in a way where you're trying to keep up with somebody, like you were just talking about.

“Comparison is the thief of joy”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

We didn't get to this in the interview, but a lot of Nicole's advice focuses on productivity and avoiding distraction and all the stress that that causes, and of course spending time when you didn't mean to on things. For example, she recommends a browser extension called unroll.me. It's free, and I am now using it. I will leave a link in the show notes. You can always find the show notes by going to bobbirebell.com and then going to the Financial Grownup podcast area. There's also a handy search box in the upper right hand corner, where you can always just type in the guest name or any keyword, but definitely check out unroll.me.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Another one from Nicole's book was to keep emails to five sentences. If it has to be longer than five sentences, then it deserves a phone call. I'm going to start trying that in my workflow. We'll see how it goes, but if you do it, too, let me know how it goes.

Episode Links:

Follow Nicole!

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Authors, Business, Career, Financial Grownup, Personal Finance, Money, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanNicole Lapin, Author, Becoming Super Woman, Boss Bitch, Rich Bitch
It’s a Pandemic- Let’s Buy a 50- Acre Ranch! With Hello Seven’s Rachel Rodgers
It’s a Pandemic- Let’s Buy a 50- Acre Ranch! With Hello Seven’s Rachel Rodgers

Hello Seven CEO and author Rachel Rodgers has always been bold. But even she was surprised when her family took the plunge and bought a 50-Acre Ranch just after the pandemic started. Her money story will reveal why it makes total sense to expand just when everyone else is in retreat. 

Rachel Rodgers

Rachel’s Money Story:

Rachel Rodgers:
We built a house that we currently live in two years ago. We love it, right? I thought this was our forever house. And literally the moment we moved in, my husband's like, "We'll be here a couple of years and then we'll upgrade." And I'm like, "No. Stop saying that. We're going to live here forever. I don't want to upgrade. I want to raise my children here."

Rachel Rodgers:
And sure enough, two years later we saw a property go on the market here in North Carolina. We were like, "Oh my God, we got to see it." It was a ranch, 50 acres. Horse ranch, so it had horses and a beautiful main house on the property. There's also a cottage and there's trails. I mean, it's insane. There's a river runs through it. I mean, it's a little unreal.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Rachel to put this in context, just maybe four years ago, you were actually living in New York and even in much smaller quarters.

Rachel Rodgers:
Yes. So I lived in an 1100 square foot house in Tenafly, New Jersey, right outside the city. And I loved that house, I loved that town, but I got all the kids in the world and we did not fit. And I was running my business from the house as well, so we were bursting at the seams and needed to expand, right? So we wound up with 50 acres. Not exactly what I intended.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And to be clear, [crosstalk 00:03:56]. You have four children. Wait, you have four children. What are their ages?

Rachel Rodgers:
They are 20, 8, 7 and 2.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. Okay. So you moved it to the ranch as we record this about a week ago. And by the way, there's actually a separate Instagram channel for the ranch. Tell us what it's like. So you've now gone up from five years, you've gone from 1100 square feet, and correction in New Jersey I thought it was New York, 1100 square feet in the New York area, we're call it, and now you're at this 50 acre ranch. You've got a big to-do list. How are you managing that financially? Do you have a plan? Tell us more.

Rachel Rodgers:
Yeah. Well, I have a big successful business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is your next investment.

Rachel Rodgers:
Yes, exactly. And so I actually use the things that I want to do in my personal life as motivation to keep growing the business. And so we've been having a lot of success. We actually had our first million dollar month where we made seven figures in a single month in June, which was really exciting. But we were in the process of buying this before that and so fast forward to February of 2020, we went to see the property. My husband whispers in my ear, "We must do this." Right? Like as we're walking around the property and so I'm like thinking in my head, I don't know how the hell we would pull this off. This feels like a lot. I got to wrap my head around it. And we were thinking maybe it's a retreat space and we use it for business and we make money from it as well. I couldn't wrap my mind around actually living there personally. It just felt like this property is too big. Who raises their kids on 50 acres?

Rachel Rodgers:
And then, literally, we sat down with the sellers. We connected with them. They are entrepreneurs as well. They felt like our fairy godparents, right? They were almost like mentors and they are the ones that built this property. And so we were like, "You know what, we're going to try to find a way and we'll use it for the business and we'll make money from it. Right? I'm good at that. I'm good at ways to make money from things. And so I was like, great. And then literally two weeks later, there was a world pandemic declared and banks weren't even giving out loans. It was like basically business stopped in March and April. And so we were like, I don't know what we're going to do with this property. Obviously this is like a no-go because who buys an enormous property in the middle of pandemic. Maybe not the best choice.

Rachel Rodgers:
And so we kind of hemmed and hawed and we kept in touch with the sellers and we had realtors involved and everything. But in our minds, we really didn't think that we were going to go through with it. And then as the news kept rolling out, it became clear that this is going to be a long-term thing. We're going to be in this pandemic for like a year, maybe longer, who knows. And so we were out in our backyard at the house that we built that I thought we were going to live in forever. We were just laying there, hanging out with our kids. And I was like, "You know what? We should totally move into that big ass ranch. We should move into that ranch. We should live there with our family. If we're going to be in a pandemic, might as well own a ranch." And my husband's like, "I'm down." That was the moment where we committed in the midst of this craziness. It was like, I think we wouldn't have actually gone through with it without the pandemic.

Bobbi Rebell:
So projecting forward, Rachel, tell us about the business of the Rodgers' ranch? What do you envision now?

Rachel Rodgers:
What we envision for it is that we're going to have a little farm. We are going to host retreats. There's a cottage on the property that I'm going to use for my business as my office. And a little sneak peek ahead, we're actually in the process, because we're crazy, of buying a house across the street. Because of course, before we even closed on this property, the house across the street which is the only other house in the culdesac, that house went on the market. And I was like, "Oh my God, it's the perfect retreat house. It has seven bedrooms. We can house so many clients and we could do amazing retreats on the property. We have to buy it."

Rachel Rodgers:
My financial advisors is like, "Please don't. Can we take a beat?" And I'm like, "No, no, no, we have to buy this." Because when will we get another chance if somebody else buys it. So now we're in the process of purchasing the house across the street, so now we will have 57 acres because that house comes with four acres. So it's like 57 acres total that we will own and we'll rent out the house and do Airbnb and stuff like that. But then we'll have retreats where we'll have like coaching with the horses and we'll have a pool party. We've got trails. We have a tennis court. It's pretty bananas.

Rachel Rodgers:
I personally cannot wait to come. Tell us what is the lesson from this money story for our listeners? How can they put this into their own lives? What can they learn from it?



Rachel’s Money Lesson:

Rachel Rodgers:
My lesson for you guys is during a pandemic or recession or any type of hard time, I encourage you to expand instead of contract. I think that's what our natural response is, particularly when it comes to money. Let us just get smaller and contract and we're afraid and so we shrink ourselves and we shrink our dreams during tough times like this. And I say, no, let's expand. Because I actually think, and I've studied this, there are a lot of businesses and a lot of opportunities and careers that get made during times like this. It's the crazy people who are willing to take risks during these sort of shaky times. Those are the people that wind up having wild success. Netflix became what it is in the last recession because remember they were doing the DVDs and then they started doing streaming because they had to change their business model. And guess what? Now they're an enormous giant. And so I say, look for opportunities to expand.


Rachel’s Money Tip:

Rachel Rodgers:
So my everyday money tip is to pay to be productive. So pay coaches, pay people to babysit you, pay people or pay for space to get things done. So I recently wrote a book and the way that I wrote the book, because I live in a household with a bunch of children, big family, we also have my mother-in-law lives with us. Like there's a lot of people in my house and so I went to Hawaii for a week. This was pre-pandemic and got half of my book done and then-

Bobbi Rebell:
Half?

Rachel Rodgers:
Half of it and then when I got back to town, the only way I got the other half done was by going to a hotel locally and getting the rest of it done. And then I would meet with a book coach every Wednesday. And she would basically sit there and babysit me on Zoom so that I would write. Yeah. But I mean, to some degree I completely get that. I mean, I was joking. My family interrupted me like 10 times all with really good things. They wanted to share their opinion on something. They wanted my opinion on something. They wanted it to tell me something. It was all good things, but it took me hours to watch a 40 minute video that was something for work because I couldn't find a place to not be interrupted and people mean well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Rachel Rodgers:
It's a good thing that they want to talk to you, but you just can't always get stuff done and leaving sometimes is the best thing. Leaving temporarily, you know what I mean?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Rachel Rodgers:
And when you pay for that space, I think sometimes you value it more. Now we obviously can't go sit at a coffee shop the same way we could before, but even that you're not paying for, I think when you pay for someone to watch you, you take it a lot more seriously.

Rachel Rodgers:
You know what someone said to me years ago, and I will never forget this phrase. They said, when people pay, they pay attention.



Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Bobbi Rebell:
start thinking about ending the timeout, if you haven't already. When the pandemic first started, it was totally understandable that we weren't going to be very productive, so timeout made a lot of sense. But at a certain point, we need to find a way despite the fact that the situation very much still stinks for many of us and could get worse, we got to do it. Rachel talks about even paying to be productive. And I agree if you can do it, do it. If it's not in your budget, well try to get creative. Maybe create blocks of time where if you can't leave your home, everyone else does so that you can get some work done. Or go to sleep earlier than everyone, a few days a week so you can get up and work before they get up. Maybe have an accountability buddy that does it with you and you text each other to make sure you're getting up. You can make excuses that are totally valid, good reasons, but that's not going to get you to your goal. Life has to go on and so does your path to success.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Bobbi Rebell:
don't assume your dreams will always be just dreams. Rachel never imagined moving south and opening up a ranch and a retreat. In fact, that wasn't even in the dream category at a certain point, but here she is. Dream big and then break it down into small steps that you can work towards. Even if the overall timeline has to be extended, just keep making progress and don't forget to document it all.



Episode Links:



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Authors, Business, Financial Grownup, Money, Investing, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanRachel Rodgers, The Rodgers Ranch, Coronavirus, COVID-19, Ask For More, Reach For More, More Space
How to adapt your business model to the new reality of the Coronavirus quarantine with Smart Money Mamas Chelsea Brennan (ENCORE)
How to adapt your business model to the new reality of the Coronavirus quarantine with Smart Money Mamas Chelsea Brennan (ENCORE)

Entrepreneur Chelsea Brennan’s product sales are surging during the Coronavirus pandemic but the boom has brought some difficult business and ethical decisions. The founder of Smart Money Mamas shares her personal money story, along with how to do a  money fire drill so you and your family are ready for emergencies.

Chelsea Brennan

Chelsea’s Money Story:

Chelsea Brennan:
I still think of myself as self-employed, right? This is like my business that serves me in my family, but the reality is it's grown over the past couple of years. We have contractors, numerous contractors, that work for us and we have affiliates promote our product and depend on their affiliate commissions for their business revenue. Our most popular product on our site is called our family emergency binder. It's this product that fills the gap between kind of your general having the right insurance and having a will and what your family would actually need to navigate a crisis.

Chelsea Brennan:
As this whole pandemic started to happen, we saw sales pick up of that, which on one side as a business owner is great, but on the other side it was really emotional for me of, am I profiting off a crisis, am I taking advantage of the situation, even though the product existed long before this all happened. My initial reaction was to discount it significantly to make sure more people got it, but I had to think through was I jeopardizing my ability to support my regular contractors who typically work with me? How is this going to affect my affiliates? How do I communicate this to them in a way that they think this is the right decision?

Chelsea Brennan:
Something that once upon a time when it was just me would have been an easy decision to just slash the price and move on. I had to have a lot more conversations and think more carefully about it for several days before he made the decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because we realized that so many of our businesses, even though you think of yourself as a solo entrepreneur, are actually connected to other people and their income if you have suppliers, vendors, and then on the other hand, your clients. It can be a bit complicated. How did it work out?

Chelsea Brennan:
We decided to reduce the binder price by 40% for the remainder of the crisis. We keep setting an end date on it just because it helps optically and people understand what's going on, but we keep extending it through the crisis. It wasn't a very expensive product to start. It was $39. Now it's $23. We talked to our affiliates about the fact that like, listen, this isn't a sexy product. It never has been, right? This isn't something that people want to think about.

Chelsea Brennan:
If we discounted the price, if we made it super accessible, we could get it to more people and get them to take action on it in a time where even people who bought it in the past have a tendency to kind of stick it in the drawer of, "I don't want to fill this out. I don't want to think about it. I know I need it, but I'll deal with it later," whereas we could really encourage them to use this as an opportunity to get prepared. Everyone in our affiliate group completely understood that. They thought it was a great idea. We have been discounting it and find that balance between making sure we're supporting my business and the other businesses that depend on the binder, as well as making sure we're helping the community as well.

 
“People value things more that they pay for. So I could have made the product free and I think that we would have had fewer people.”
 

Chelsea’s Money Lesson:

Chelsea Brennan:
I think that if you're a business owner, you have to treat your business as a business. As much as we all have that helper mindset and we want to make sure that everyone has everything they need all the time in our community, first of all, people value things more that they pay for. I could've made the product free and I think that we would have had fewer people filling it out. We're getting lots and lots of emails of people taking action, which is my favorite thing. You have to support yourself and the people that depend on you, your family, your contractors, your employees. Don't feel guilty about having a business through recession, through a downturn because you still have to survive, to keep serving your community.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because if you don't make money and you don't pay your bills, those people are not going to be able to pay their bills. It's important to remember that everything is connected.

 
“You have to support yourself and the people that depend on you. Your family, your contractors, your employees. So don’t feel guilty about having a business through a recession, through a downturn because you still have to survive. ”
 

Chelsea’s Money Tip:


Chelsea Brennan:
The family emergency binder came about because my husband is a stay at home dad who is not super involved in the day-to-day of the finances, right? We have regular money conversations, but he's not the one signing into accounts, paying the bills, understanding the investments. I was a little bit worried of if something ever happened to me. We have two young boys. The emotional difficulty for him of having to both deal with any kind of grief and learn a whole new set of skills. One month out of the year, we call it our fire drill month, he takes over all of our finances for the month. I have to step out and be quiet, which is the hardest part, right, is to let him-

Bobbi Rebell:
Does he come to you for help?

Chelsea Brennan:
He does. The way we run it is that he's got to go to the binder first. We're trying to find holes in the binder in the first place of like, okay, where are things that we didn't write down that we should have written down? But he does come and ask questions. The first time was a little bit difficult, right? We had a couple of things that fell through the cracks a bit, but that's natural and now we're in year three and it's gotten a lot easier, right? He knows. When we have money conversations in the other 11 months of the year, he's more involved. He has more buy in, and I feel like it's built a lot of comfort for both of us.

Chelsea Brennan:
My money tip is if you have one partner in a relationship that manages the majority of the finances or if you're equal partner switch, let the typically secondary partner take over and really get some practice in case they ever have to step in because they likely will at some point. Even if it's just a temporary point of an illness or whatever, then they have that comfort that they can do what they need to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, or even worse, what could happen is they could just do nothing and that would be even scarier. What about if people sort of share things equally, if they divide and conquer, which a lot of couples do?

Chelsea Brennan:
Yeah. I love the idea of swapping completely, right? Take over the other responsibilities. We see this sometimes with like home maintenance and childcare, right, where one partner is the stay at home parent. We have this in our house except the difference is I'm home also working from home, so I kind of see what's going on, but it's letting the other partner handle what you normally handle, whether that's school routines or packing lunches or managing the auto maintenance, right? It's experiencing what you would have to pick up the slack on if your partner wasn't around.

 
“We are getting lots and lots of emails of people taking action, which is my favorite thing.”
 

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Think about all the financial stakeholders before making a money related decision. For Chelsea, this included not just herself and her family, but also people with whom she had business ties and, of course, our customers. This applies even to our families. You may want to do something with the family's money, but we need to all think about the impact they will have on everyone in our financial ecosystem.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Pay it forward, but also pay yourself. My bet is Chelsea's community will remember that she cut them a break during this tough time, but they will also respect the fact that Chelsea made sure to take care of her own family. That will go a long way towards sustaining her business well beyond this time period and people remember that and they're okay with that. What are you doing that people will remember?

Episode Links:

Follow Chelsea!

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Advice, Business, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Get Paid More, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanChelsea Brennan, Smart Money Mamas, Coronavirus, COVID-19, Entrepreneur