Learn from Mindstorms author Kathleen Celmins how to know which ideas are worth monetizing vs. keeping as a hobby, why and how you should record and watch yourself speaking on video, and specific to come up with a business idea that you can monetize.

11 Money Tips to making more money

• Drill down to find your expertise- do this while sleepy- you should be able to smile at every topic when you are done with the list

• It’s the small ideas that make a lot of money

• Not all hobbies and interests are meant to be monetized

• Find your over arching topic, idea and word

• Record yourself on video talking about your ideas- then watch it

• People are willing to pay to solve problems- come up with a list of problems you can solve

• Write a book and step on a stage

• Create digital products

• Every 90 days find a new income stream to build

• How to battle resistance

• Build content on what you own not rent because the rules can change

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Follow Kathleen!

• Instagram - @kathleencelmins

• Facebook - @kathleencelminsdotcom

• Twitter - @kathleencelmins

• LinkedIn - @kathleencelmins

• Website - https://amplifiednow.com and https://mindstormsbook.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list, that includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And, for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, then we'll gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Kathleen Celmins:
So, what are the problems that you can solve? Not what are the problems you can solve better than anyone else in the world, but what are some of the problems that people come to you with and leave with a resolution?

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebel author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone to a episode of the money tips for financial grown ups podcast. I'm your host, Bobbi Rebell. Let's start today with a question, do you ever stop and think what if I could make money not doing my job, but doing something I love? Really, stop running around and focus. Are you thinking that now? I'm not going to tell you to just go for it. In fact, in many cases, you should not go do what you love for money. That is the advice from this week's grownup guest, Amplify Now's Kathleen Celmins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her new book, MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur has a lot of what to do, but just as importantly has some very big don'ts. And, trust me, I've done the don'ts, it's not good. You got to listen to Kathleen. There were so many incredible nuggets of wisdom in her book we raced through about 11, but we just barely touched the surface. So, don't worry about taking notes. As a reminder, everything is on my website, bobbirebell.com just go to the Podcast tab, show notes, you'll get the full transcript. But meanwhile, listen up. She's really good. Here is Kathleen Celmins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathleen Celmins, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm happy to have you. You've given me so much informal advice over the years about how I can monetize various business ventures of mine. I've taken some of your advice, I probably should take all of your advice because I'd be a lot wealthier by now, but I'm excited that you're going to your wisdom with all of our listeners.

Kathleen Celmins:
Well, thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And to that point, you wrote a book that is going to be very helpful to our listeners called MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur. This book sort of echoes the kinds of things that you do with your in-person clients. So everyone can it at their own pace at home. I have 11 tips that I took away from this book. We're going to try to plow through them as quickly as possible to get them all into the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first one... And, by the way, you say that you should do these a little bit sleepy. I want you to explain why, while you answer the first one, which is that you're going to drill down to find your expertise. So, you're going to do this while you're sleepy. Tell us about that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. Especially this first one, because if you do it first thing in the morning, you think, "Well, I don't even know how I brushed my teeth this morning. Like I don't know anything about anything. I'll never figure it out." But if you take your whole day and you do a bunch throughout the day and you get out of your desk, you get out of your office, you go out into the world, and somebody asks you for advice and you come back and you think, "Well, I did give somebody advice today. And I actually last week I give somebody advice too." By the end of the day, when you're tired is when you are the most creative. It's not when you should balance your checkbook, or do anything mathematic, but it's when you can really think about your ideas.

Kathleen Celmins:
And so, when you're drilling down on your expertise, there's a lot of different ways to come about it. It's what do you love doing? I don't start with that, but what do people ask you about? What are you the go-to expert in at work? What do your friends ask you about? What section of the bookstore or the library do you head toward every time without fail? That's different for everybody. What are the ordinary things that you find yourself explaining frequently that come really easy to you, but you see people taking a bunch of notes on? That's a good starting point for people who think, "Man, there's a lot of money out there to be made. I don't know how to get a piece of it." To me, that's a really good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, like you said, when you're at the end of the day, you sort of have this cumulative knowledge of all the things that you've been saying all day, and maybe some of those ideas will bubble to the top and be top of mind. And, hopefully, you'll smile at all of the topics.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number two, it is the small ideas that make a lot of money. That's kind of counterintuitive because I always think like we're waiting for the big idea. It's the small ideas you say.

Kathleen Celmins:
Maybe small ideas, isn't the right word. But it's the most simple, the thing you could put on a bumper sticker. There's a lot of profound wisdom to be found in the smallest thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number three, not all hobbies and interests are meant to be monetized.

Kathleen Celmins:
That's kind of a note to myself or even all of the entrepreneur friends that I have. My example was a friend of mine asked me to photograph her wedding. And I thought, "Oh, that'd be really fun. I really like her. I love her fiance. I have a fun camera. I need a new light. Okay, whatever. That sounds fun." And I had a great time. We did an engagement session. I did wedding photos and it was really, really fun. And I came home and I thought, "I'm keeping that as a hobby because I don't want to take away the joy of just grabbing my camera and going out and photographing the sunset." If everything can be monetized, and everything, can you have to keep something sacred. And you have to kind of test to see where that line is. It's really hard to do, but it's the sort of thing where you want to keep your beginner's mindset, your amateur's mentality. It helps a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I think that's really important to remember in this age where everyone says, "Follow your passion for your career," but maybe your passion should just be your passion. That's okay too. That's really important to remember that sometimes work can be work depending on it shouldn't be miserable, but it's okay for work to be work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number four, find your overarching topic, idea, and word. So this is sort of an exercise that people go through.

Kathleen Celmins:
Right so in one of the MINDSTORMS, we talk about expertise and you come up with a whole bunch of lists. And then one of the things you do is you highlight, and circle, and underline or whatever the things that show up on more than one list. Those are the kinds of things that you think about. Like you putting your ideas, you're downloading your brain into folders those are the titles on the outside of your folders.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number five, this is something that I think a lot of your students kind of were hesitant about, but it is record yourself on video talking about your idea, and then watch it. The second part being even harder, I think. I have trouble watching myself and I make a living doing video content basically.

Kathleen Celmins:
Me too, and me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Kathleen Celmins:
It is hard. You will find though, where you stumble. And the more you practice, and the more you dig into why you're stumbling, the better you can be about articulating your ideas in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do you say to people that just are so hesitant?

Kathleen Celmins:
Don't publish it anywhere. Don't do it on YouTube Live. Just put it on your phone and watch it yourself. To your same point about not every hobby needs to be monetized, not everything you do on your phone, or on your computer needs to be public.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, the next one is people are willing to pay to solve problems. So, come up with a list of problems you can solve. This, I think, is so important because there's so many products out there and ideas that may sound like a great idea, but if it doesn't solve a problem it's really hard to monetize sometimes.

Kathleen Celmins:
It's also really hard to talk about complicated solutions. And so, the more complex your solution, the more likely you are, as a person, as a business owner, to really talk about the details of the solution. But remembering that people do pay to solve problems period. And that's another way to get at what your expertise is. So, what are the problems that you can solve? Not what are the problems you can solve better than anyone else in the world, but what are some of the problems that people come to you with, and leave with a resolution?

Kathleen Celmins:
The more you can drill down on that, the easier it is to sell. If the problem you're solving is how to look good on your Instagram feed all day, every day. Great. That is a very specific problem you can solve. That's not mine, but...

Bobbi Rebell:
But it does sell. I mean people will absolutely pay to have someone help them with their social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number seven, very near and dear to my heart and to yours, write a book and step on a stage.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. And those are hard as I have just recently found out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Kathleen Celmins:
But it's a really good way to package up a lot of the things that you know. And writing a book is really challenging for the simple reason that you think you have to distill all of the knowledge you've ever gained into one book. And so, one of the things I say in the book is no, write your first of 10 books. Commit to writing 10 books. Then, that first one is nowhere near the mountain it was when you thought you had to write your odyssey, basically, on that. And stepping on a stage is hard also but, depending on who you are, it's nowhere near as hard as writing a book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I agree with that. And stepping on stage, once you're on stage, it's much easier. It's the moment before you go on that's really the hardest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number eight, create digital products. This is something I have really struggled with. You've urged me to do a video course and I am pushing back on you. I'm a bad student. All right, create digital products. Tell us more about that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah so, let's take the how to look good on your Instagram feed all day, every day. That's a very specific problem that you can solve. And it's probably not one you can just say, "Be yourself and smile more." One of the things you want to do is really show people exactly the step by step process. And, in order to do that, you give them the steps they need. And so, that can take a lot of different forms.

Kathleen Celmins:
Digital courses are really popular right now. Independent one on one coaching can be something you do. In fact, I say to lead with that because if you're coaching somebody through it, take notes, tell them, "First thing you need to do is make sure you have good lighting." Oh, good. Okay so, step one, lighting. So, then you're building out your digital product as you're getting paid to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number nine, every 90 days find a new income stream to build. So, you're doing that. Are you keeping the old ones, or you're sort of dropping the ones that weren't working every 90 days?

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah so, it totally depends.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Kathleen Celmins:
So 90 days, to me, I think of that meme, the diamond mine, one where the person turns around right before they get the big diamond. You want to make sure you give it a full 90 days and, again, a lot of this is notes to myself, or my past self. That got to a point where I was convinced that people didn't need marketing help at one point, because I had not asked more than a handful of people, if they needed marketing help. And if I had not given it that full 90 days, spoiler alert, they do. Everybody needs marketing. But if you don't give it the full effort, if you don't decide to commit to something for an entire quarter, you're going to give up before you hit that diamond.

Kathleen Celmins:
And, to your point, not every one of them is going to hit. Maybe this market isn't interested in that solution. You're not going to know that until you've had conversations for three months. And so, giving yourself permission to change every three months, but also give yourself permission to stay the course for three months. Because every 90 days sounds, when we're talking about it, sounds like no time at all. But, when you're in the middle of it, feels like forever. The consistency will pay off down the line.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next one is build content on what you own not rent because the rules can change.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yes. So, you only own two things, and you don't even really because you're renewing your domain, but the two things you own are your website content and your email list. Everything else is at the mercy of somebody else's algorithm. And the algorithm is set up to make the people stay on that platform. Not to help individual business owners grow their own businesses on their platform. That's true across the board. So that's true with all social media platforms. It's true with course platforms. It's true with email lists that get your content.

Kathleen Celmins:
So if you have a newsletter, keep it on something that you can always access. If you have a course, make sure you know the rules of who owns your content. For a lot of times, the content is owned by, or kept hostage by the course platform. I have a former client who had a course that was selling really well, and then had six chargebacks in three weeks. And the platform locked her out of the content that she created. She could not communicate with. So, there's a lot of things that seem really easy are really... To me it's like building a house on rented land. "Okay, you can have this house. You live in it as long as you want. I'll never charge you rent," until they do right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Kathleen Celmins:
Then you've got something you did not anticipate.

Bobbi Rebell:
The final thing I want to have you talk about is that commercial success is not passive. There are so many people out there talk about digital courses, on all this passive income tell us the deal.

Kathleen Celmins:
Okay, the only passive income are investments where your money is making money on its money. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like stocks, you're talking about stocks, things like that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. Anything like that, where you put money in the market and you decide to take it out another time. That's it, that's the long and short of passive income. The rest of it takes a lot of work, which is why it's worth thinking about in terms of, yes, there's so much money to be made on the internet where, at the very beginning of it, you can have your piece of it, but it's not something where you can just set up a sales page and then get your Lamborghini tomorrow.

Bobbi Rebell:
No. And even people talk about real estate is passive income. It's not passive because you're either managing it yourself, dealing with tenants, or whatever, the electricity is out, or you're paying a management company. Someone has to be in charge. And so, therefore it's never passive.

Kathleen Celmins:
Right. Really, honestly, the only passive income is when your money is making money on itself in the stock market in general. So, thinking about that in terms of you're going to build this, you're going to build something, you're going to download ideas from your brain you can't just sit back and wait for something to happen. You got to work toward it and it's worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think your book MINDSTORMS is definitely going to help a lot of people that can't get to you. Personally, reading really feels like you're there with you in a session with your three or four, a tight group going through these exercises. I particularly loved the back half of the book because you're very specific about exactly what to do and the steps to take. It's not one of these sort of just thoughtful books where you're just thinking about things. There's actual steps of specific things that people should be doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where we can find the book and where we can learn more about you and all of your stuff going on, all of your products.

Kathleen Celmins:
Sure. Thank you for saying that the book has its own URL. It's mindstormsbook.com and then I am, myself, on all of my social media. So I'm @KathleenCelmins on Instagram and Twitter, I have a lower presence on Facebook. But my business website is amplified, past tense, now.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that name.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for being here.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. This was wonderful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, much great advice from Kathleen. I've gotten a lot, as I said, behind the scenes over the years. And I'm really glad that I was able to share some of her experience, and her guidance with all of you. So, definitely check out the book because there's a lot more there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I related to so much of what we went over, especially the idea of not just speaking on video, I don't have so much trouble speaking on video, but watching myself back, that is really hard for me. It's part of why I'm bad about posting my appearances on TV, and the quotes in the press on my social media. I post a small fraction and I really should be better at that because do get a lot of nice feedback, and support from you guys when I do do that. So, hopefully, I'm sort of manifesting it by staying out loud. Hopefully, some of you will hold me accountable to it and I'll start posting a little bit more of those to share with you guys because they are kind of fun and I do enjoy it when I get the feedback from all of you. So thank you for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thank you also for listening and supporting this podcast. If you're any value out of this, please consider giving back by sharing on social media. Tag me, of course. Or write a review, or even just make sure that you're subscribed. It's now called follow on some platforms. So, this podcast, I do it for you guys. I don't make any money on this podcast. I don't take outside advertisers. I just share with you my Grownup Gear, which I hope you do support grownupgear.com. So, helping me grow the show is really all that I ask in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please make sure to check out Kathleen's book, MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur. And, of course, big thanks to Kathleen Celmins for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends, and treating yourself as well. And, most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

How To Fund Your Dream Project

Learn how to optimize a kickstarter campaign, and the big mistake that slipped through the cracks for entrepreneur and personal finance teacher Rob Phelan- including how he raised more than double his goal and published his children’s book with almost no financial risk.

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Follow Rob!

• Facebook - @TheSimpleStartUp

• Twitter - @ASimpleStartUp

• LinkedIn - @robphelan

• Website - www.thesimplestartup.com

• Rob’s book - M is for Money

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Rob Phelan:
All people need to see sometimes is that somebody else is doing it before they'll jump in and do it themselves. We love to do what other people are doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi, friends. Who among us doesn't have that dream project. We'd love to make time for, but we also need to make sure we've got the funds to pay for it ideally in advance. Well, in the opening clip, you heard entrepreneur and personal finance teacher, Rob Phelan, talking about the fact that he used, well, not quite peer pressure. Let's call it peer influence to get donors like myself on board his dream project before even the official Kickstarter campaign started. I have to say I was impressed, but as I've gotten to know, Rob, I'm not that surprised. After all he teaches this stuff. He has The Simple Startup, which teaches teens how to start a business. And his day job includes teaching high school kids about personal finance.

Bobbi Rebell:
But raising money on Kickstarter is not for the faint of heart. You need to know what you're doing. So we're going to get you there. Remember no need to take notes. I know you'll be tempted, but you can always just go to my website. It's just my name, bobbirebell.com for show notes, including a full transcript. We've got you covered. Here is Rob Phelan. Rob Phelan, You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Rob Phelan:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I actually invited you on. I've been trying to get you on. I think this is our third attempt because you have a book coming out called M is for Money. It's a fantastic book for children. We're going to talk a little bit about the book, but then we're going to get to what I really want to talk about, which is that this was a dream project. And I want people to hear how you got this dream project funded, but first tell us about M is for Money.

Rob Phelan:
Yeah, M is for Money is a dream project that I brought to life over this past year. It is a children's book. So I'm a high school personal finance teacher, but I wrote a children's book targeted at three to eight year olds that is an ABCs of money book. So it's going to introduce kids to a new letter, a new focus word that has to do with money. And then it's also going to give them illustration and a mini story on every page that shows the money word in action. And the whole goal behind the book is to try and get kids to build a positive relationship with money and to start having conversations about it from a young age. So breaking this idea that money is something shameful, or embarrassing, or taboo, or not a table conversation. We're going to try and change that because if we get kids who are confident about money and confident in their ability to ask questions and find answers, they're by default going to make better money decisions as they get older and turn into adults.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was a dream of yours and you got really creative with the funding. You went to Kickstarter. I'm very proud to say I was someone that helped to fund this dream of yours. Tell us about how you funded it, why you went that way, and the dos and don'ts. Well, that was a lot. So start with just the beginning.

Rob Phelan:
In my other, other, other, other job, I'm a person who's a big proponent in multiple streams of income. So I have my own company called the Simple Startup where I have 10 to 18 year old young entrepreneurs start their first businesses. And one of the things that I preach to them, or I talk to them about is how do you start a business for free? And we think most 10 to 18 year olds, you don't have a ton of capital available. You're not getting a loan from anyone unless your parents are feeling bad for you. So we need to start for free, or we need to start really cheap. And one of the ways to do that is to pre-sell your value. And Kickstarter is one of these companies out there that allows you to do that. I had the idea, I came up with my first draft and then some very crew graphics.

Rob Phelan:
And I started with that and I started telling people, look, I'm going to do this Kickstarter. It's where you pre-sell the book, or the game, or whatever it is you're creating. And people come on and say, I'm really interested in seeing this thing come to life. I'm going to back this project. There's usually multiple tiers that they can back at. So the lowest being just a hard cover copy of the book. And then it goes up to donating multiple copies of the book to different title one schools or public libraries. You are one of the backers who came in at a very special secret reward tier. So that was by invitation only. Where you came in and your, I guess, what are we going to call it? Your merchandise, your brand is somewhere inside,

Bobbi Rebell:
Grownup gear.

Rob Phelan:
The book. It's yes, it is a Easter egg inside of the book. So it's a secret kind of in the background kind of thing, but people will eventually notice it. And that was a big thank you for the wonderful support you showed me at the beginning. But yeah, Kickstarter is the way that I chose to fund this book. So I didn't want to put a ton of my own money into this. I wanted to first test out the idea and see do people actually want it, so they don't give you their true opinion until you actually ask them for money.

Rob Phelan:
And then also could I raise enough to cover the illustration costs and the printing costs of getting an offset run done and then be able to donate. I wanted to donate at least 300 books to title one schools and public libraries. And I think we hit all of those goals. We smashed our goals. Our goal was $6,000 and we hit 13,704. So it was,

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Rob Phelan:
Phenomenal success and really gave me the, I guess, courage to go forward and say like, yes, people want this. Go for it. Let's bring it to life. Let's make it happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now it's interesting. So you say you needed $6,000. How did you come up with that figure? What was the backend budgeting ahead of time? How did you even know what this project would cost?

Rob Phelan:
So back in budgeting, it was pretty much predicting out costs. So I was able to figure out, okay, this is what printing would cost. And that's kind of, one of the ones that you have to think about is like, how much does it cost to print a book? And then you have to do it in quantities usually of like 500 or 1,000. So I knew at the very minimum, I was going to have to print 500 of these things and that was going to cost me about $3,000. And if I go up to $1,000, it would cost me five. So the economies of scale was great. You could do more books. And then the illustrator was a flat fee and I interviewed a couple of illustrators. And so I knew I needed about 1500 to cover illustrations. And then there's just like getting an ISBN number for a book, which I didn't realize was a cost, thing that you had to do and registering the Library of Congress.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how does all this work? How did you find out what a illustrator costs, what the printing costs? I mean, what were your sources for this? Were you tapping into a network? Were you just Googling? I have a traditional publisher. I know nothing about any of this and I'm very curious.

Rob Phelan:
So I cheated a little bit and I hired an author coach for an independent author.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's not cheating, that's your strategy. You hired an... I know, but its true. That is the answer. You hired someone to create a shortcut to give you the information in a more efficient way than if you had spent the time kind of scrounging around looking for stuff. So that might be a good tip for people, is find an expert and then use that person's expertise to limit the amount of time you have to spend, because time is a currency. So you were able to do them. You have a two year old, you have a full time job, you have stuff going on.

Rob Phelan:
And I say cheated in the sense that I threw some of my own money at that first, but then I made it back in the Kickstarter. So I didn't do it totally for free upfront. I did throw some of my own money in, in the beginning to get started, knowing that I would make it back on the back end if the Kickstarter was successful, which I was very confident it would be.

Rob Phelan:
But the person I hired was M.K. Williams. She's the author of the Author Your Ambition series. So she's very big on helping independent authors just kind of go through the steps, kind of like I do with Simple Startup and helping people start the businesses, she helps independent authors to navigate the idea of like registering for ISBN numbers, registering with the Library of Congress. How do you get your book from the printer, so you can print your own copies, but how do you get it on like Amazon, or Target, or Barnes & Noble? How does that process work? She was the one who was kind of walking me through all those steps and just for a flat fee, which was great. So it's not like I've lost part of the ownership of the book or royalties or anything like that. It was a wonderful arrangement that really helped me a lot and-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. No. Yeah, that's a big money tip is, if you do hire someone, make a proactive decision, are you going to pay them a flat fee? And then you retain ownership. And I'm sure some people, if they believe in a project, might be willing to work for free, but take a percentage. So that's a decision that someone would make if they have a project like this. Tell me, I want to hear what went right, but first we're going to go through some missteps. Because I know it wasn't all smooth sailing.

Rob Phelan:
No, definitely not. So I'm not a marketing major by any stretch. I help kids learn to start their businesses. I'm not someone who's going to help you become a multi-million dollar business. That's the next step up for me. So I'm your first entry into entrepreneurship. And that's what I like to talk to my students about in schools. Like here's how you get started. And then there are multiple courses, degrees, things you can do for marketing. So marketing was something that I had to learn a lot about as I went. Did some good things, did some not great things. Overall, we got the Kickstarter going, it got over the line, which was the big thing. The hardest one for me was after I had finished the Kickstarter I put in the order for the books, they had arrived. I had packaged them up nicely. I sent them to everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you wait, wait, let me just stop. You handled the actual shipping and delivery to each of your Kickstarter contributors.

Rob Phelan:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like I received a book. You packed my book.

Rob Phelan:
Me or my mother-in-law. My mother-in-law has been my like fulfillment center.

Bobbi Rebell:
Family. Okay. So getting family to work for free. There's another money tip. Okay. So you did the physical labor of actually taking the time. You didn't outsource that at all. That's a lot. A lot of people don't realize like entrepreneurship, when you're starting out, you're doing everything.

Rob Phelan:
Yeah. And there was the option of having a fulfillment center do it. So Kickstarter, as soon as you run one, you'll start getting plagued by emails of people being like, Hey, I want to run your campaign for you. I want to do your fulfillment for you. And you'll lose about another 10 to 15% of the money you make just doing fulfillment if you hire somebody to do it, because they're going to take quite a significant cut to do that. And I figured for the, I ended up doing 739 books. So 340 were donated and then the rest were going to backers. So I was like, okay, it's a lot, but I can handle this. I can do it. My mother-in-law was very willing to be like a home base for it. So she's letting me take an entire room in her house at the moment where there's just boxes of books sitting and envelopes and bookmarks and stickers and all this other stuff that was going in there.

Rob Phelan:
But yeah, using your family, super good idea if they're willing to help out and she did not want any payment for it. I offered, she said, no. She just wanted to help. So that was a great thing to have. And I know not all of us have that network to fall back on, but if you do, don't be afraid to use it. But the mistake, the mistake we have to talk about. So no sooner had I sent all of these books out like 300 plus books had gone their Merry way. I dropped one off to my local library and I was like, Hey, I would love to use some of my allocation of donated books to give some to my local library. She emailed me back. She's like, oh, I love the book. Everything looks great. You can see how it's to be a wonderful resource for kids.

Rob Phelan:
But I can't put a book on the shelf that has a spelling error in it. And my heart stopped. I was like, what? No, there's no way. How does a children's book author have a spelling error? There's only like 300 words in the whole book. But yeah, sure enough I found the page and the word P-A-Y, so pay had an X instead of the Y. So the letters kind of look similar. I'm going with this, that everyone's brain was simply just reading over it the way the word was supposed to be understood in our heads. And all of us missed this. I read this book cover to cover 20, 30 times to spell check it. My wife did, a couple of other people were in focus groups for me and they did it too. None of us saw this spelling error until the librarian was like, Nope, can't put this on the shelf.

Rob Phelan:
So I had to email all of my Kickstarter backers and be like, I am so sorry. I sent you a book with a spelling error. If you would like a replacement copy, please let me know. I'll send you one for free. So that was a big, expensive learning lesson, but I think it was very important to acknowledge it and address it upfront and offered at least to fix the problem for people. And a lot of people are like, Nope, I want the collector edition of the book. So I've got something now that's a very limited edition. Then there were plenty who were like, yeah, I want to give this book away as a gift or I want to donate it. So I would like a corrected copy. So it's been a mixed result, but everyone has been very nice about it, which been the great part.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that's a good lesson for all the focus groups and everything you did. We're all human and things do happen and you have to just acknowledge it and figure out the best solution that you can and move on. Let's talk about what went right. When you look back now, what are you like yeah, that was genius.

Rob Phelan:
I'm going to do a little pat on the back for the secret reward tier. So like reaching out to you and a couple of other personal finance influencers. I handpicked the people I wanted to work with because I liked their brands. I liked who they were as a person, the message they were putting out there. And I wanted to be associated with them basically for all time, because your names were all printed in the back of the book, as well as having your stuff in the book somewhere as well. And that was a huge needle mover for getting initial backers in. So yours was in exchange for backing at least five books donated. So anyone who did the secret reward tier donated at least five books towards my 300. And then they also usually went on and shared it with their audiences.

Rob Phelan:
So like, Hey, I'm appearing in this book or my brand's appearing in this book. So you guys should go check out this book. I thought that was a great way to get some ownership from other people who are much bigger, wiser, more experienced than I was in terms of the personal finance world. It caused the Kickstarter to have a huge kickstart on day one. So like a lot of pledges came in day one, because I had lined up all of you secret reward tier backers to be like, please go in on day one, get your pledge in so I can add the illustrations in and keep this moving forward. But it caused the Kickstarter to like be 50%, 60% funded on the first day. All people need to see sometimes is that somebody else is doing it before they'll jump in and do it themselves. We love to do what other people are doing.

Rob Phelan:
The hardest part for a Kickstarter sometimes if you don't have a strong start, people kind of sit on the sidelines and they wait to see, is this going to get funded? Is it not? Should I jump in this? Should I not? Because if a Kickstarter does not reach its funding goal, nobody gets charged. So everyone has their credit card kind of like sitting on the side, they've pledged the money, but you don't get charged for it until the Kickstarter ends and the goal has been achieved.

Rob Phelan:
So I think a lot of people, they'll look at these projects and like, oh, it's got like 5,000 to go. It seems to be moving really slowly. I don't know if I'm even going to bother with this one because it doesn't look like it's going to meet its goal. And I could see a lot of great ideas don't make it over line because of that. They just don't have a strong start. And I think the secret reward tier was something that really allowed me to have that strong start and give people kind of that feeling of everybody else is doing it. I better do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am honored to have been selected to participate in the secret tier. How can people learn more about you? I know the book is now available or will be soon on Amazon, M is for Money. Where else can people be in touch with you?

Rob Phelan:
Yeah. So I am on Instagram @misformoneybook, Facebook @misformoneybook, Twitter it's @fieducator, F-I-educator. If you're on LinkedIn, you're more than welcome to reach out to me, Rob Phelan. You'll find me there. And you can check out the website, misformoneybook.com. As you said, M is for Money is available for pre-order at the moment up until November 13th, 2021. So if you're hearing this after November 13th, you can just go buy the book right now. If it's before November 13th, you can pre-order your book at Amazon, Target, Barnes & Noble, or bookshop.org. And I do encourage you to pre-order or order as soon as you can, if you are thinking about trying to get the book for the holidays, just because what we're hearing from the printers is that books are going to have a lot of supply chain problems and logistics problems over the winter holidays. And I know last year, even we had some where like I was ordering books and they were taking a month to get to where they were supposed to be. So highly encourage you if you are ordering books, whether it's my book or any other book, order them soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
So great. Thank you so much.

Rob Phelan:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. My friends that was a lot, but a lot of great stuff, right? What stood out to me was that Rob really needed to figure out ahead of time, how much the whole shebang would cost to make sure he didn't dig himself into a hole. So we need to research our costs including things like who is packing the boxes. I love the idea of having your family pitch in, but we don't always all have that available. So if they can't and you need to hire someone, just knowing what it would cost to outsource things like fulfillment is good business. You have options and you can make informed choices. Also, there is no such thing as proofreading too much. When Rob told me there was a typo, I tried to find it myself and I couldn't. Things do slip through the cracks. Really take those details seriously. We all need to be as detail oriented as possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also don't apologize for getting help if it gets you to your goal. Rob did hire a consultant, but even if the project didn't work out, it would have saved him so many wasted hours of research. In his case, he felt he had the green light after he had the information from the consultant. But you know what, if you bring in a consultant for a potential project and that helps you see that the numbers won't work on the project, that has a lot of value too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you got a lot of value from this podcast. I say this all the time but you know what, it's really true. You guys get used to it, but please do take a screenshot and do share it on social media. And please tag me so I can share it from there and bring in more grownups to this community. On Instagram, I'm @bobbirebell1, the number one and on Twitter, it's just Bobbi Rebell. M is for Money makes a great holiday gift. Order it now so it gets there when you need it on time. Lots of shipping delays these days. So don't hesitate. Big thanks to Rob Phelan for helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Who needs a start-up when you can buy your way into a business? My Fab Finance founder Tonya Rapley shares why and how she decided to buy an online business and her tips on what she would and would not do differently.

Money Tips On Buying An Online Business

• Learn the types of questions you should ask before buying a business.

• Learn how Tonya increased the average order value and how you can do the same.

• Learn what kind of things you can do in the beginning to prepare for the growth that comes later.

• Why it’s so important to have a marketing strategy for your business.

Follow Tonya!

• Instagram - @tonya.rapley

• Facebook - @OfficialTonyaRapley

• Twitter - @tonya.rapley

• Pinterest - @ItsTonyaRapley

• LinkedIn - @tonyarapley

• Website - tonyarapley.com

Follow Club Loofah!

• Instagram - @clubloofah

• Facebook - @clubloofah

• Pinterest- @OfficialClubLoofah

• Website - https://loofah.club

Follow My Fab Finance!

• Instagram - @myfabfinance

• Facebook - @MyFabFinance

• Twitter - @MyFabFinance

• Website - myfabfinance.com

Other Important Links

• My Fab Finance Bootcamp

• The Blue Ribbon Club

• The Fab Fam Community
  
  
  

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Tonya Rapley:
They were taking a significant loss. They were selling these loofahs for 4.99 and doing free shipping. Ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi, friends. Okay, we all know starting a business is not easy, but the truth is you don't have to start a business to be a business owner. There's a whole lot of options out there if you want to buy your way in. But there's a lot you need to know before you get started, and we're going to share some of the secrets that you need to know.

Bobbi Rebell:
My guest today is Tonya Rapley. You may know her as the co-host of one of the shows we featured in our summer watch party, Going From Broke. We were a little obsessed with it. Anyway, it's executive produced by Ashton Kutcher. Check it out on the Crackle channel. Tonya is also the founder of My Fab Finance and the author of The Money Manual. She is a big deal, guys. She's been featured everywhere from Vogue, Good Morning America, and The Today Show. But what you probably don't know is that she's also a holistic wellness business owner. In 2019 Tonya purchased Club Loofah, an inclusive self-care brand focused on inspiring and supporting regenerative practices for all. She mentioned this to me in passing recently, so I roped her into a podcast interview to tell us more about buying a business and basically how it all works. It's really interesting, guys. Here is Tonya Rapley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tonya Rapley, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you. I'm excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to have you. Long time overdue. I loved having you in my book and now here. You are the founder of My Fab Finance, which has an incredible community as well. You're host of Going From Broke, which was one of my favorite shows that I caught up on this summer. We highlighted it in our summer watch series. You have the 30-day shift program. And what we're going to talk about is your new online business, Club Loofah. Welcome, welcome.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you so much. It sounds like I do so many things, and I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many things, and wife and mother and all the things. Before we get into your online business, tell us a little bit about My Fab Finance.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, I mean, My Fab Finance, I started in 2013. It was essentially my accountability partner, as I decided that I was tired of being inconvenienced by being financially insecure. My goal at the time was to improve my credit score so that I could get my own apartment in New York City and hopefully get free clothes from Macy's. I just wanted free clothes. I was like, "Maybe they'll see what I'm doing and send me free clothes."

Bobbi Rebell:
Free clothes, always a noble cause.

Tonya Rapley:
You know, you know. And here we are, I guess. Well, I've been a full-time entrepreneur. I was able to transition into doing My Fab Finance full-time in 2015. We've created so many different elements of My Fab Finance and different iterations, but today our goal is to create a safe space for women to talk about money, as well as we have a mission of helping 1000 people achieve at least one financial goal that they're proud of.

Bobbi Rebell:
When we were doing our interview for my book, which is going to come out in the spring, which, guys, I'll talk about another time, you kind of mentioned, "Oh, by the way, yeah, I bought an online business." And so I wanted to bring you on the podcast, because you mentioned this oh so casually, like, "I'm doing 100 things, and by the way, I bought an online business," and then you move on to something else. I need to know about this. So a lot of people, they're home during this extended version, unfortunately, this extended pandemic that's so much longer than we thought we would be home. Of course it's good to start an online business, but not everyone has to start from scratch. Sometimes if you have the resources you could actually buy something and give yourself a jumpstart. And it sounds like that's what you did. So tell us about this decision to buy an online business and what you did. What is it?

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. So as a financial educator, I realized that a lot of my income was service-based. It was based on my ability to show up to coach my audience and everything else, and I wanted something that was easier to scale. That's how I thought about it before I bought the business, easier to scale. I knew I did not want to come up with a new concept, create a new brand and everything else. And so my sister, who had just closed her Shopify store, asked me... She said, "I know you're interested in potentially purchasing another business. Have you checked out the Shopify exchange?" And I hadn't heard of it, but I went to check it out immediately. And she then sent me this company, Club Loofah. And she just typed, "I think that you could really do something with this. It's a great concept."

Tonya Rapley:
And so I started to look into it more, and I thought to myself, "Wow, this is a really good concept." It is essentially a bath subscription business, a bath tool subscription business, because most people don't realize that you're supposed to replace your loofah every three to four weeks. Your loofah, your sponge, whatever it is you use in a bathroom, before it starts smelling, before it starts crumbling, you're to replace it. So we reached out to the owner, and he was about to actually close the doors, because he hadn't had any bites or anyone that had... He had a few conversations, but no one that was really serious. [inaudible 00:06:09], "Hey, the money's in escrow. Let's do this." So we ended up buying the business from him. He was actually based in Riverside, California at that time. We were living in Los Angeles, so we drove up to Riverside with a U-Haul, got all the inventory that he had on him-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, right, so you actually have to take inventory, because I have-

Tonya Rapley:
It is not drop shipping. Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do drop shipping for my grownup gear.

Tonya Rapley:
It is not drop shipping. We do not have a fulfillment center just right now. And so that's the thing. We got the items from them. We just started learning the e-commerce business when it came to loofahs. When we purchased the company, one of the things that was attractive to me was that it already had subscribers. It was a subscription business. So the day that we purchased the company, they had new orders, because it billed monthly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, why was he selling it? Presumably... I would always be suspicious. If someone's selling a business, you kind of go, "Well, why?" Because maybe if it's a good business, why would he sell it? So I would be wondering, what are the red flags?

Tonya Rapley:
So the reason he was selling it actually was because he inherited the business from the previous owner. So there was a previous owner who started the business for her daughters because she wanted to teach her daughters entrepreneurship. Then her daughters lost interest in it, and she didn't have the capacity to manage it, but he was already onboard as the marketing officer, the chief marketing officer, so he bought it. He believed in the business, thought it was a good company. He took it over. But then his father passed away, and he decided that he didn't want to do things just because anymore. He wanted to live a more purpose-focused life.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I have not seen this site before you, but it has a really nice editorial focus, and that's something that that is one of your strengths. Tell us more about the changes that you then brought in.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. Thank you very much, because when I bought the company, it was very fun and kitschy, and one of the things we realized was, if we're going to compete with the Targets... And we're not going to compete with Target and Amazon. We cannot drive our prices low enough to compete with them, so we have to appeal to a different demographic, someone who value self-care, who is willing to invest in their self-care and what's a higher end feeling product. And so we rebranded to go for a higher end. And so now the products that we're rolling out are more luxury-focused, or they're items that you can't find in your drug store. That was very intentional. And we wanted to clean it up a little bit. The company was based in California, so it was very beachy, Hollister... Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what would you have done differently? Are there questions you would have asked that you would advise people that are looking to buy an online business that's already somewhat established... What should they go in knowing that you wish you knew?

Tonya Rapley:
Absolutely. So when I bought the company, [inaudible 00:08:55], "Okay, it's bringing in revenue. You have XYZ subscribers. Cool. All right. Yeah, let's do this." Now I would definitely ask about their average order value, because the average order value determines if you can run ads. From my perspective, I was thinking, "All right, we're going to buy this company, and we're going to run ads, and we're just going to blow this out the water." But in order for ads to make sense, your average order value needs to be above what your minimum ad spend is going to be, or what it costs to acquire a customer.

Tonya Rapley:
They were taking a significant loss. They were selling these loofahs for 4.99 and doing free shipping. Ridiculous. So one of the things we did when I came in was changed the shipping model. We now charge 2.99 for shipping. And then we also increased the price point on some of the items. We allow the loofah, the classic loofah, to be the loss leader, but we increased the price points on some of the other items and introduced higher-priced items to the store as well, so that average order value and just the opportunity to bundle products... There wasn't really a strong opportunity to bundle products. So now we're in the final stages of developing a body care line so that you can bundle your body care with your loofah, since it's it's all body care anyway. So that's one of the questions I definitely, definitely would have asked, is average order value.

Tonya Rapley:
The retention rate was pretty good. Their retention rate... And that's a question, especially if you're buying a subscription business. How long does your average customer stay around? And do you have any existing customer service infrastructure in place? Because he was handling customer service inquiries. I found very early that I hated that aspect of the business, and we ended up hiring someone, but it would have been nice if there was somebody that came along with the company. So any personnel that would come that know the business outside of us going and doing training with you is another question that I probably would have asked. Those are the two big things we had to change, was... The average order value was a killer early on, because the company was basically losing money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you really didn't know that when you bought it.

Tonya Rapley:
No, I didn't, and I should have asked for stronger financials, but I think that [inaudible 00:10:55] I was like, "It's a subscription business. How bad could it be? It's not to the point where they're searching for customers every month. I bought the customers with the business. How bad could it be?" Yeah, I didn't do the math on that one, Bobbi. I didn't think like, "Okay, this is a 4.99 loofah, and they're charging nothing. Free shipping. How much is shipping?" But we addressed that, and within the first year we increase the average order value I think by like 32%.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do that?

Tonya Rapley:
We introduced a candle line, so most people were buying candles. And our candles are not... They're high-quality soy candles. Our candles were about 20... I think $28 for a candle. And so that definitely drives up, if you're buying a 4.99 loofah and a $28 candle. We introduced two higher end products, the ayate washcloth, and we actually just dropped our Japanese smoothing brush. So those aren't terribly expensive, but they're 10.99 and 11.99. And then we started adding bundle options. So when people checked out, we offer the upsell of a shower hook for people who don't have any hooks in their shower, so we offer that upsell. And then we also invited people to buy our family bundle, which was essentially four loofahs instead of one, just in case it's a family of four, and quite a few people decided to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you mentioned you wanted something that you could scale. Are you still bundling at home? Who is packaging this stuff up? You said you had no fulfillment center.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, so we still have a fulfillment manager. We do have a storage facility where we keep the things, and we have a facility manager, our fulfillment manager. So we are very hands-on still in that process. I don't pack the loofahs anymore, my husband doesn't, but our fulfillment manager does. And she's great. She's awesome. And that's something we had to look at when we were considering if it makes sense for us to place our products in a fulfillment center, which [inaudible 00:12:42] take about $2.80 to $3 per product, and our average order value just could not sustain that yet.

Tonya Rapley:
So maybe when we roll out the body care line... Our body care line is sulfate-free, microbiome friendly, and we've been really intentional about the body cream that we're creating. And we have a non-abrasive exfoliant that we're also rolling out a non-abrasive skin exfoliant, so it's papaya extract and natural fruit extract to help with skin turnover and cell turnover. So I think that once we roll those out, we might be in the zone of being able to send it to a fulfillment center, but maybe not. We have to see how our fulfillment manager feels, because we'll keep those profit margins... We'll grow them as long as we can, and we'll minimize the money that we're spending as much as we can.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am impressed, as someone that started a small online business during the pandemic. The amount of detail that you're going into is incredible. You know all of your numbers. What is your best advice, before we wrap up, for people that are considering buying an online business? You went basically to the Shopify exchange, and you can look for whoever's selling a Shopify site. Is that what you advise? And what else?

Tonya Rapley:
It's work. It's work. And decide what works for you, drop shipping, or whether you're going to do the order fulfillment yourself. But you also have to ask yourself, "Do I have the endurance to grow this?" Because I think a lot of times we hear about these overnight successes when it comes to shop owners. They get placed in Oprah's most favorite things list and everything else. But what happens if it doesn't? What is your marketing strategy? My main advice would be, have a sound marketing strategy for how you're going to acquire customers and keep your customers, because if you don't have customers, you don't have a business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true and such good advice. Okay. We know everyone needs to go to Club Loofah for sure. Where else can people find you and find out more about you and My Fab Finance and the community there? And also you have a 30 day shift program.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah. Yeah, because I don't have enough things going on, right, Bobbi?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:14:44]. You need more.

Tonya Rapley:
So I decided to launch a personal coaching company, because a lot of women who didn't fall into the scope of work we do at My Fab Finance but wanted to know more about, "How do I confidently take on my next life phase?" And so I created a program, 30 day shift, for women who are looking to powerfully move into the direction of their next life shift. So that's at my personal platform. It's Tonya, T-O-N-Y-A, .rapley, or tonyarapley.com. If you go to that website, it actually has all of my companies. So it has a link to My Fab Finance. It has the link to Club Loofah. But if you're interested in Club Loofah, that website is actually loofah.club, so L-O-O-F-A-H.club.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that. That's another question though. You got to get the URL there. That's another thing you got to be asking. Wow.

Tonya Rapley:
Clubloofah.com is not available. And one of the things I wanted to do was make sure that we were in it for the long haul before I invested in buying the domain from someone else. Actually, after this interview, we're finally finalizing our trademark application, because the business was not trademarked, or they abandoned their previous trademark, so we're trademarking. So now that we've been in it for almost two years now, I'm in a phase like, "Okay, let's do all the things that we need to do and probably should have done." So I'm going to... Hopefully in the next year clubloofah.com will be ours. I'm like, "Who had a Club Loofah other than us?" I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're just squatting on the name.

Tonya Rapley:
They're squatting, waiting for someone like me to come buy it from them. Because that's a big business too. Think about it. Buying and selling domains is actually a big business.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is a big business. And when I named Grownup Gear Grownup Gear, I looked very carefully at what was available before I named a company. So that's also something to really look at, whether you start a company or buy a company. Look at the domain names that the company owns, because that's really important.

Tonya Rapley:
That is. That is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tonya, thank you so much. Oh, you didn't say your socials.

Tonya Rapley:
Oh. So My Fab Finance, that's M-Y-F-A-Bfinance.com. And then Tonya Rapley, so that's T-O-N-Y-A.rapley. And then Club Loofah is Club Loofah, C-L-U-B L-O-O-F-A-H.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So you have that on social media.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank goodness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank goodness.

Tonya Rapley:
Yeah, we have that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. Thanks so much.

Tonya Rapley:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends, there was a lot there, so much good stuff. I want to remind everyone full transcripts are available. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com. Go to the podcast section. You'll get the show notes and the transcripts.

Bobbi Rebell:
My take here is that whether you're going to start a business or you're going to buy a business, you need to know that it's going to be a lot of work, probably more than you expect, probably lots of surprises, and probably going to cost you a lot more than that purchase price. Yes, Tonya had customers. They were subscription-based. That's all good. But it wasn't a profitable business, and then she had to deal with that. You need a lot of, frankly, capital runway to manage a business when you're dealing with it initially and you don't really know what's coming at you. So make sure you ask all the questions you need to ask and that you're happy with the answers. The good news with buying a business is you do kind of get a headstart. She already had customers. That's great. You start in the middle. You have a concept there. But you also have challenges that were created by someone else, and you may not be aware of all of them, and they come at you a lot faster because you're already sort of in the middle. Make sure you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow or subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, reviews are so appreciated. I read every one, and they mean the world to me. Let me know what topics you want me to cover. DM me. And please follow me also on Instagram at bobbirebell1. And go to my website if you want to get on my newsletter list. Just as I said, bobbirebell.com. Pretty simple, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, support Tonya. She is amazing. Check out Club Loofah. Follow it on all the socials. And, of course, My Fab Finance and Tonya Rapley as well. Say thanks to Tonya for sharing her journey and for helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking out fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Jesse Mecham, found of You Need a Budget joins us with a fantastic list of ways we can be a lot less stressed out about money, communicate better about money with out loved ones, and in the end feel and be more in control of our finances. 

Jesse’s Money Tips

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the founder, CEO, and creator, creative mind, I should say, behind You Need a Budget, affectionately known by many as YNAB. Congratulations on all the success of this product, and really, it's more than a product. It's really a whole suite of tools to help grownups.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. We're focused on anyone that thinks at some moment in time, "I think I might need a budget," and then we try and convince them that a budget is fun and useful and productive. Then we just teach them kind of a new way of thinking about their money and have them go on their way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, the backstory of this really started with you.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. I was the first one to realize that I needed a budget, at least that I knew, and my very new wife and I, we were both just newlyweds, broke, both in school. We wanted to get through school. We wanted to do it without taking on any debt, and we weren't making a lot of money at all. So I just thought, "Well, we need to watch this carefully." So I built this little spreadsheet for just me and my wife, Julie. A year later, it had done a lot of heavy lifting for us. We were on the same page. We were saving money.

Jesse Mecham:
Then this little baby came along, and our two big goals, we didn't want to borrow any money for school and we wanted Julie to be able to step out of the workforce and just focus on this baby, and she was the breadwinner at that time. I was still mainly focused on school. So the whole impetus was like, "Well, could we figure out some way to just kind of close that gap?" That was where I thought, "Well, maybe other people would want to use this spreadsheet that Julie and I have used." So we launched it and iterated for the next 17 years, and here we are.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people are working from home, but they're thinking or they're being told that they're going to come back in some form. So much is up in the air. Give us some money tips for managing this time in our lives.

Jesse Mecham:
Structure. That is the word. You want to build structure in. It's not so you can be uber super productive, right? We're not saying, "Oh, now you can be Superwoman because you've got work right there. You can go sit over there and just start plugging away." Not that at all. It's actually structure to be able to stop working and find time to close things down. So anything you can do, if it's a morning routine and a shutdown routine, our team swears by that, if you have the luxury of finding a separate space with maybe a door that you can close, that's excellent. Headphones that you can pop on and mute things, that's excellent. Anything where you can create structure around your work, but most importantly it's so you can shut things down. We saw a lot of burnout from 2020, not because ... Well, I mean, yeah, because of the pandemic, but because people didn't know how to not be at work when work had come home.

Bobbi Rebell:
All the rules changed when the pandemic hit. It became kind of okay to have kids in the background, but at a certain point, there is a productivity cost. So give us some money tips for parents balancing work and family, especially in this transitional time.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. We're promoters of remote work, and it's been kind of unfair for remote work to have the pandemic come along with the experiment, because what you were dealing with, it's like, "Oh, we don't like working from home because my kids are here." I'm like, "Well, they won't always be there. They'll probably be back in school, and it'll feel different," or suddenly someone's having to just on a whim work from their kitchen table. That's not ideal for basically most everyone. I say most because I do know one person that loves the chaos, and he works, codes right in that. But he is the exception.

Jesse Mecham:
So we don't want to combine our experience of working from home with the fact that we had all these other dynamics with the pandemic, number one, and maybe only, because you'd start here and then see what happened. You've got to have conversations with your spouse. You're probably both working, and you kind of have to say, "Okay, how do we divide and conquer this situation?" But Julie and I, when I used to work in our home, we had to have just straightforward conversations. I would say, "Hey, I'm going to go down." It's like I'm gone, just gone, and she was clear on that. Then she also needed to know from me, "Hey, are you going to come up for lunch? Should I eat without you?" She didn't want to just miss out on something. But it was a little bit of a burden for her if I wasn't very communicative on what my schedule looked like. She's like, "Oh, should I wait around, or should I take off with the kids and go somewhere?"

Jesse Mecham:
So just overly communicating as far as the boundaries go has been really helpful, but you have to recognize you're always going to iterate on this. Everything's changing. Life will change. The kids will get a little older, and they can understand things like, "Hey, don't come in when the door's closed." I lock my door here when I'm doing something like this. It's recording where I'll hear Faye, my little five-year-old, run across the garage floor, and I'll hear her coming. She knows if the door's locked, that means don't knock. That means just give Dad a little bit of time, and I can pop out at some point. But you've got to communicate those boundaries like, "Hey, this is real. I'm really at work."

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's an area that is ripe for improvement in my home, for sure.

Jesse Mecham:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So okay. So your product is YNAB, and I'm sure some people are super fans and some people give you the eye roll. Part of it is that there's a perception that budgets are all about being restrictive. I'd like you to share an experience you had with your wife when you had a certain amount budgeted for groceries, but it wasn't working for her because it wasn't about the money.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah, it's almost nothing is ever really about just the money. There's always something at least a few layers deep, and in this instance, I regret to say that it was a 10-year evolution of my learning on this and Julie also learning it as well. But for the most part, when we were first early on married and I was not even working just on YNAB, I had a real job and stuff, I mean, I was swamped doing that, and she was swamped doing these little kids. So we were both pretty swamped. I do still the heavy lifting of the budgeting as far as running the software and making sure everything's reconciled, and then she comes over and I'm like, "Hey, I'm ready for you." She comes over and she looks at it all, and we make sure we're on the same page.

Jesse Mecham:
That was always how it worked, and one of those categories in there was the groceries category. Our third rule of budgeting is to roll with the punches, meaning you can overspend. You just adjust. It's flexible. So every month, we would overspend in groceries, and then literally 10 years in, one day ... So this would mean we had four kids, probably, at the time. I was like ... Same old conversation. It was like a light bulb went off for Julie or something where she's like, "For me, a successful grocery trip doesn't mean I'm under budget. It means that the kids don't meltdown. It means that it's just smooth. It means we're in and out. That's success."

Jesse Mecham:
I was trying to have the old school Julie, when we were first married and she knew the price of every brand of can of corn. But over time, we had evolved, and she didn't have the brain space for it, nor should she have. So it was her recognizing the value that she was placing was on the experience, not on just, "Oh, look how little we spent." Way back when we were first married, it was vital that we spent so little because it was so tight. So I bumped our budget up quite a bit, and we haven't overspent since. That was a big lesson for me. There's usually something behind the scenes when we're talking about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and you're speaking to something that hits home for so many of our grownup listeners, that it is an evolution as you go through the different stages of being a grownup. At the early times, when you made that budget initially and the decision about how much money you would have for groceries, she was in a position where it made sense with her time and her attention to be looking at every little price. There sometimes is a time in life when the price within that budget is not the most important thing. It might be the time, that it's not worth her time, resources, especially now, as you have seven children, to know the price of corn or whatever it may be. So I think it's really important that financial grownups understand that things change and that's okay. It's important to be able to adjust things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a big believer in not having debt. Obviously, you say it's not inevitable, but there are a lot of people that point out that debt can be used for good, like education. You were able to avoid debt for your education. Tell us about that, and give us some tips about avoiding debt, especially for people that are looking at student debt, credit card debt, what have you.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. The student debt, I'll kind of set aside for just a moment. Credit card debt, for the most part, at least as it's reported, you see a lot of people say, "The worst situations are someone declares bankruptcy." They'll say, "A lot of the time, it's a medical debt that will kind of tip the scales," but we don't recognize all of the little debts that come along that kind of pile up. Then it's like the straw that broke the camel's back. This final one is a medical bill or something a little bit larger than is the norm. Most people, it's kind of death by a thousand cuts with that credit card balance. So it goes up a little bit. They pay it down, but not quite all the way. It goes up a little bit. They pay it down, but not quite all the way.

Jesse Mecham:
It's really because they're making spending decisions now, not considering future expenses that are going to happen, that are very much going to happen. The car will need to be repaired at some point or an appliance will need to be replaced. So when these abnormal kind of ... Someone will say, "Oh, it's this one-off thing. This isn't a normal month, but we had this one-off kind of 'Ah' experience. I just had a water heater go out. Well, just the pipe for it, where it started shooting a little stream of water in your face if you walked by. We were like, 'Well, we've got to get that fixed.'" That just happens. So that's all real, and there is no such thing as a normal month. So every time we see a new expense pop up, we're like, "Oh, that's abnormal. That's not normally what happens. So I'll just put it on this card because it's a one-off." You find out that that abnormal stuff happens all the time. So we're always kind of telling ourselves that story, and that story isn't true.

Jesse Mecham:
So when we get to our second rule, we are embracing those true expenses, we want people to be able to look ahead to those larger, less frequent expenses that surprise them and break them up into monthly amounts and start saving up for the car repair, the appliance repair, or the vacation, kids' summer camp or whatever it may be, not always just bad things. Then when they're choosing to spend money in the moment, they're considering the future as well. So that thinking shift, and I should say I'm not talking about people that are truly in dire straights. They know how to stretch. I mean, you talk about financial grownups, financial tips, they know how to stretch a dollar in ways that would just blow our minds. So I'm talking about people that make good money. They don't have good information, and so they're just not choosing in the moment based on information that's fit to really give them the answer they need. That's how we slowly get into the credit card debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can you get that information?

Jesse Mecham:
You need to stop looking at your checking account balance as the end all, be all point of information. Say, "Well, how much money do I have? Can I go out to sushi, or are we going to get some cheap pizza? Can I do this? Can I buy these shoes that I just saw or not?" People will pull out their phone. They look at their bank balance. If they just got a paycheck, they're like, "Oh my gosh. I'm flush." If the paycheck comes in in a few days, they're like, "Oh, I can't buy that." The bank balance is the sole indicator of, "Can I buy this? Can I not? Can I afford this? Can I not? Should I buy this?" It's super stressful.

Jesse Mecham:
So instead, we want them to follow our first rule. You take that bank balance, you break it up into jobs, and you say, "This month" ... Say we have $1,000. "400 of that is for groceries for the next little while. The 200 of it is for this thing. 100 of it is for a car repair that I know will happen, but I don't know when and I don't know how much, but 100 bucks would be better than zero. I'm going to set that aside this month." You just start breaking that pile of money down. 50 bucks will be for sushi. Then you live according to that plan.

Jesse Mecham:
When your friend says, "Hey, we should go get some sushi," you look at your phone, and instead of seeing that you have $1,000 and you're like, "Oh, yeah, sushi, slam dunk" or you see $1,000 and you're like, "Oh, should I? I don't know," you still don't know, still stressful, you look at the sushi category and you're like, "Oh, I've got 50 bucks. I'm sitting pretty. Let's go do sushi," or you see that your eating out category is $2 and you're like, "You want to just come over? I'll make you some tea or something." But you're not choosing something now without considering all of those future obligations that are going to hit you. That's the key.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get through a couple other tips we have prepared for our listeners. You talk a lot about embracing your true expenses, and I feel like you were alluding to that in the last answer. What does it mean to embrace your true expenses?

Jesse Mecham:
You have to recognize that expenses are not even. They're not steady. They're like, I don't know, a really unhealthy EKG, maybe, where it's just like, "Boom, here's a big surprise. Boom, here's a big surprise." You always think, "Oh, that's the exception." It's not. It's real. Christmas comes every single year. So if you celebrate Christmas, if you do the gift thing, then you'd say, "Well, how much do we want to spend on that? Maybe it's $600." So you set aside 50 bucks a month. For all of 2021, you're setting aside 50 bucks a month, and then when Christmas comes, you have $600. Instead of flipping it around and starting to say, "Oh, well, I don't have any money, so I'll just put it on a card and then I'll pay that down," think about it this way, Bobbi. It's always you and future you that are sitting there with the pile of money. Future you needs to have a voice at the table.

Jesse Mecham:
If you think about the debt situation that you asked me about earlier, when you say someone's like, "Oh, we'll put that on a payment plan. We'll put this on a payment plan. That's the name of the game," that person, that company is thinking about future them. They're like, "Oh, man, it'd be great if you'd finance this car. Absolutely. It'd be great for us." They're totally thinking about future them, future quarterly earnings things for shareholders, future bank balance. I mean, they're all over the future. Then you have the person that signs it away saying, "Oh, yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that note for this car." They're not thinking about the future. I'm trying to flip that around. I'm trying to have people think about their future and position themselves to be future-oriented, where then they're making decisions with both of you in mind, future Bobbi, present Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and it's hard, because the truth is one of the things that worries a lot of us right now is that things like you talk about a car, car loans are getting longer and longer in term to make the payments look lower, but ultimately, you're paying more, and it's over your head for a very long time.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're orienting where they know. Well, don't even look at the repo situation. I mean, how many times people will get cars repossessed, and the same car will get repossessed five times. There is someone making money in that scenario, and it's not the person driving the car. So that seven-year note that you see on cars now, they used to be three, then five. Now they're seven. All that is is an evolution of the financing of that GM, Ford. Every car company makes most of their money, most of their profits from the financing side of this, not from the manufacture of the car. They're putting it out to seven years because they know that future Toyota, future Honda, no knock on any of the companies, but they are future- and profit-oriented, and people that are buying the car are now-oriented.

Jesse Mecham:
That's where we have to just try and get that shift to happen. So you start paying yourself a car payment, saving up cash for it over time. It might mean that you buy a car that's beneath you for a little while, but then you trade up over time and you start paying cash for that. You get out of that car payment trap. It's not a given.

Bobbi Rebell:
Or you don't trade up. A lot of really wealthy people drive really crummy cars.

Jesse Mecham:
It is absolutely. Yeah. They're hiding in plain sight.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. One final tip. What does it mean to age your money?

Jesse Mecham:
So we're essentially talking about if you were to earn a dollar today that it would be 30 to 60 days before you actually spent that dollar. So when a dollar enters your system, the clock starts ticking, and that dollar starts getting older and older and older. Right now, most people that are living paycheck to paycheck, they are spending dollars. I mean, they have a pile of bills just waiting for money to land, and we want to flip that around. We want to have a pile of money where bills come and land and you're like, "Oh, okay, I've got the money here set aside."

Jesse Mecham:
If you follow our first three rules, which we talk about ad nauseum, if you follow our first three rules, that fourth rule where you start to spend money that's a little older, a little older, a little older, it almost just happens automatically. It's a way to step back from the financial edge. You sleep better. You can talk more effectively about money with your partner because the stress levels are much lower. You make better decisions because of those stress levels being lower. You probably live longer because your stress levels are lower.

Jesse Mecham:
That's the aging your money concept. Spend money that is old. When you think about swiping a card, you actually spend money that ... Well, the metaphor breaks down, but it hasn't even been born yet. You haven't even earned it yet. The shift that we're seeing where companies are paying people for that day, for that shift, and they think that's going to help people break the paycheck to paycheck cycle, that's not going to do it. We're just pushing that can down the road. We have to have people start to orient themselves around thinking a little further ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way that you are reframing this and the different perspectives that you're giving, because I'm sitting here listening, and my mind is turning. It's so interesting to come at this from a different perspective. So thank you so much for joining us.

Follow Jesse!

• Instagram - @youneedabudget

• Facebook - @iYNAB

• Twitter - @ynab

• YouTube - @YouNeedABudget

• Website - https://www.youneedabudget.com

• Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-need-a-budget-ynab/id477248343

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Jesse Mecham:
People will pull out their phone. They look at their bank balance. If they just got a paycheck, they're like, "Oh my gosh. I'm flush." If the paycheck comes in a few days, they're like, "Oh, I can't buy that." The bank balance is the sole indicator of, "Can I buy this? Can I not? Can I afford this? Can I not? Should I buy this?" It's super stressful.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey there, grownup friends. Do you guys stress out about money? I do some of the time. I do. Do you check your bank balance before you make a purchase? Do you get anxious worrying about something unexpected coming at you, whacking your delicately balanced finances that are okay for now, but maybe not as strong as you would like, especially if those unexpected things should happen? But we have you covered with this week's financial grownup, Jesse Mecham. He is the founder of the You Need a Budget app and software, I should say, AKA, YNAB. Jesse has a lot to say about how we take the stress out of our grownup financial lives. The father of seven is remarkably calm. Yeah, I said the father of seven, in part because he has been able to separate his work from his family life, something we also talk about. I think you're really going to love his work from home tips as well. So with that, here is YNAB's Jesse Mecham. Hey, Jesse Mecham, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jesse Mecham:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the founder, CEO, and creator, creative mind, I should say, behind You Need a Budget, affectionately known by many as YNAB. Congratulations on all the success of this product, and really, it's more than a product. It's really a whole suite of tools to help grownups.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. We're focused on anyone that thinks at some moment in time, "I think I might need a budget," and then we try and convince them that a budget is fun and useful and productive. Then we just teach them kind of a new way of thinking about their money and have them go on their way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, the backstory of this really started with you.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. I was the first one to realize that I needed a budget, at least that I knew, and my very new wife and I, we were both just newlyweds, broke, both in school. We wanted to get through school. We wanted to do it without taking on any debt, and we weren't making a lot of money at all. So I just thought, "Well, we need to watch this carefully." So I built this little spreadsheet for just me and my wife, Julie. A year later, it had done a lot of heavy lifting for us. We were on the same page. We were saving money.

Jesse Mecham:
Then this little baby came along, and our two big goals, we didn't want to borrow any money for school and we wanted Julie to be able to step out of the workforce and just focus on this baby, and she was the breadwinner at that time. I was still mainly focused on school. So the whole impetus was like, "Well, could we figure out some way to just kind of close that gap?" That was where I thought, "Well, maybe other people would want to use this spreadsheet that Julie and I have used." So we launched it and iterated for the next 17 years, and here we are.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people are working from home, but they're thinking or they're being told that they're going to come back in some form. So much is up in the air. Give us some money tips for managing this time in our lives.

Jesse Mecham:
Structure. That is the word. You want to build structure in. It's not so you can be uber super productive, right? We're not saying, "Oh, now you can be Superwoman because you've got work right there. You can go sit over there and just start plugging away." Not that at all. It's actually structure to be able to stop working and find time to close things down. So anything you can do, if it's a morning routine and a shutdown routine, our team swears by that, if you have the luxury of finding a separate space with maybe a door that you can close, that's excellent. Headphones that you can pop on and mute things, that's excellent. Anything where you can create structure around your work, but most importantly it's so you can shut things down. We saw a lot of burnout from 2020, not because ... Well, I mean, yeah, because of the pandemic, but because people didn't know how to not be at work when work had come home.

Bobbi Rebell:
All the rules changed when the pandemic hit. It became kind of okay to have kids in the background, but at a certain point, there is a productivity cost. So give us some money tips for parents balancing work and family, especially in this transitional time.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. We're promoters of remote work, and it's been kind of unfair for remote work to have the pandemic come along with the experiment, because what you were dealing with, it's like, "Oh, we don't like working from home because my kids are here." I'm like, "Well, they won't always be there. They'll probably be back in school, and it'll feel different," or suddenly someone's having to just on a whim work from their kitchen table. That's not ideal for basically most everyone. I say most because I do know one person that loves the chaos, and he works, codes right in that. But he is the exception.

Jesse Mecham:
So we don't want to combine our experience of working from home with the fact that we had all these other dynamics with the pandemic, number one, and maybe only, because you'd start here and then see what happened. You've got to have conversations with your spouse. You're probably both working, and you kind of have to say, "Okay, how do we divide and conquer this situation?" But Julie and I, when I used to work in our home, we had to have just straightforward conversations. I would say, "Hey, I'm going to go down." It's like I'm gone, just gone, and she was clear on that. Then she also needed to know from me, "Hey, are you going to come up for lunch? Should I eat without you?" She didn't want to just miss out on something. But it was a little bit of a burden for her if I wasn't very communicative on what my schedule looked like. She's like, "Oh, should I wait around, or should I take off with the kids and go somewhere?"

Jesse Mecham:
So just overly communicating as far as the boundaries go has been really helpful, but you have to recognize you're always going to iterate on this. Everything's changing. Life will change. The kids will get a little older, and they can understand things like, "Hey, don't come in when the door's closed." I lock my door here when I'm doing something like this. It's recording where I'll hear Faye, my little five-year-old, run across the garage floor, and I'll hear her coming. She knows if the door's locked, that means don't knock. That means just give Dad a little bit of time, and I can pop out at some point. But you've got to communicate those boundaries like, "Hey, this is real. I'm really at work."

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's an area that is ripe for improvement in my home, for sure.

Jesse Mecham:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So okay. So your product is YNAB, and I'm sure some people are super fans and some people give you the eye roll. Part of it is that there's a perception that budgets are all about being restrictive. I'd like you to share an experience you had with your wife when you had a certain amount budgeted for groceries, but it wasn't working for her because it wasn't about the money.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah, it's almost nothing is ever really about just the money. There's always something at least a few layers deep, and in this instance, I regret to say that it was a 10-year evolution of my learning on this and Julie also learning it as well. But for the most part, when we were first early on married and I was not even working just on YNAB, I had a real job and stuff, I mean, I was swamped doing that, and she was swamped doing these little kids. So we were both pretty swamped. I do still the heavy lifting of the budgeting as far as running the software and making sure everything's reconciled, and then she comes over and I'm like, "Hey, I'm ready for you." She comes over and she looks at it all, and we make sure we're on the same page.

Jesse Mecham:
That was always how it worked, and one of those categories in there was the groceries category. Our third rule of budgeting is to roll with the punches, meaning you can overspend. You just adjust. It's flexible. So every month, we would overspend in groceries, and then literally 10 years in, one day ... So this would mean we had four kids, probably, at the time. I was like ... Same old conversation. It was like a light bulb went off for Julie or something where she's like, "For me, a successful grocery trip doesn't mean I'm under budget. It means that the kids don't meltdown. It means that it's just smooth. It means we're in and out. That's success."

Jesse Mecham:
I was trying to have the old school Julie, when we were first married and she knew the price of every brand of can of corn. But over time, we had evolved, and she didn't have the brain space for it, nor should she have. So it was her recognizing the value that she was placing was on the experience, not on just, "Oh, look how little we spent." Way back when we were first married, it was vital that we spent so little because it was so tight. So I bumped our budget up quite a bit, and we haven't overspent since. That was a big lesson for me. There's usually something behind the scenes when we're talking about money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and you're speaking to something that hits home for so many of our grownup listeners, that it is an evolution as you go through the different stages of being a grownup. At the early times, when you made that budget initially and the decision about how much money you would have for groceries, she was in a position where it made sense with her time and her attention to be looking at every little price. There sometimes is a time in life when the price within that budget is not the most important thing. It might be the time, that it's not worth her time, resources, especially now, as you have seven children, to know the price of corn or whatever it may be. So I think it's really important that financial grownups understand that things change and that's okay. It's important to be able to adjust things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a big believer in not having debt. Obviously, you say it's not inevitable, but there are a lot of people that point out that debt can be used for good, like education. You were able to avoid debt for your education. Tell us about that, and give us some tips about avoiding debt, especially for people that are looking at student debt, credit card debt, what have you.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah. The student debt, I'll kind of set aside for just a moment. Credit card debt, for the most part, at least as it's reported, you see a lot of people say, "The worst situations are someone declares bankruptcy." They'll say, "A lot of the time, it's a medical debt that will kind of tip the scales," but we don't recognize all of the little debts that come along that kind of pile up. Then it's like the straw that broke the camel's back. This final one is a medical bill or something a little bit larger than is the norm. Most people, it's kind of death by a thousand cuts with that credit card balance. So it goes up a little bit. They pay it down, but not quite all the way. It goes up a little bit. They pay it down, but not quite all the way.

Jesse Mecham:
It's really because they're making spending decisions now, not considering future expenses that are going to happen, that are very much going to happen. The car will need to be repaired at some point or an appliance will need to be replaced. So when these abnormal kind of ... Someone will say, "Oh, it's this one-off thing. This isn't a normal month, but we had this one-off kind of 'Ah' experience. I just had a water heater go out. Well, just the pipe for it, where it started shooting a little stream of water in your face if you walked by. We were like, 'Well, we've got to get that fixed.'" That just happens. So that's all real, and there is no such thing as a normal month. So every time we see a new expense pop up, we're like, "Oh, that's abnormal. That's not normally what happens. So I'll just put it on this card because it's a one-off." You find out that that abnormal stuff happens all the time. So we're always kind of telling ourselves that story, and that story isn't true.

Jesse Mecham:
So when we get to our second rule, we are embracing those true expenses, we want people to be able to look ahead to those larger, less frequent expenses that surprise them and break them up into monthly amounts and start saving up for the car repair, the appliance repair, or the vacation, kids' summer camp or whatever it may be, not always just bad things. Then when they're choosing to spend money in the moment, they're considering the future as well. So that thinking shift, and I should say I'm not talking about people that are truly in dire straights. They know how to stretch. I mean, you talk about financial grownups, financial tips, they know how to stretch a dollar in ways that would just blow our minds. So I'm talking about people that make good money. They don't have good information, and so they're just not choosing in the moment based on information that's fit to really give them the answer they need. That's how we slowly get into the credit card debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can you get that information?

Jesse Mecham:
You need to stop looking at your checking account balance as the end all, be all point of information. Say, "Well, how much money do I have? Can I go out to sushi, or are we going to get some cheap pizza? Can I do this? Can I buy these shoes that I just saw or not?" People will pull out their phone. They look at their bank balance. If they just got a paycheck, they're like, "Oh my gosh. I'm flush." If the paycheck comes in in a few days, they're like, "Oh, I can't buy that." The bank balance is the sole indicator of, "Can I buy this? Can I not? Can I afford this? Can I not? Should I buy this?" It's super stressful.

Jesse Mecham:
So instead, we want them to follow our first rule. You take that bank balance, you break it up into jobs, and you say, "This month" ... Say we have $1,000. "400 of that is for groceries for the next little while. The 200 of it is for this thing. 100 of it is for a car repair that I know will happen, but I don't know when and I don't know how much, but 100 bucks would be better than zero. I'm going to set that aside this month." You just start breaking that pile of money down. 50 bucks will be for sushi. Then you live according to that plan.

Jesse Mecham:
When your friend says, "Hey, we should go get some sushi," you look at your phone, and instead of seeing that you have $1,000 and you're like, "Oh, yeah, sushi, slam dunk" or you see $1,000 and you're like, "Oh, should I? I don't know," you still don't know, still stressful, you look at the sushi category and you're like, "Oh, I've got 50 bucks. I'm sitting pretty. Let's go do sushi," or you see that your eating out category is $2 and you're like, "You want to just come over? I'll make you some tea or something." But you're not choosing something now without considering all of those future obligations that are going to hit you. That's the key.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get through a couple other tips we have prepared for our listeners. You talk a lot about embracing your true expenses, and I feel like you were alluding to that in the last answer. What does it mean to embrace your true expenses?

Jesse Mecham:
You have to recognize that expenses are not even. They're not steady. They're like, I don't know, a really unhealthy EKG, maybe, where it's just like, "Boom, here's a big surprise. Boom, here's a big surprise." You always think, "Oh, that's the exception." It's not. It's real. Christmas comes every single year. So if you celebrate Christmas, if you do the gift thing, then you'd say, "Well, how much do we want to spend on that? Maybe it's $600." So you set aside 50 bucks a month. For all of 2021, you're setting aside 50 bucks a month, and then when Christmas comes, you have $600. Instead of flipping it around and starting to say, "Oh, well, I don't have any money, so I'll just put it on a card and then I'll pay that down," think about it this way, Bobbi. It's always you and future you that are sitting there with the pile of money. Future you needs to have a voice at the table.

Jesse Mecham:
If you think about the debt situation that you asked me about earlier, when you say someone's like, "Oh, we'll put that on a payment plan. We'll put this on a payment plan. That's the name of the game," that person, that company is thinking about future them. They're like, "Oh, man, it'd be great if you'd finance this car. Absolutely. It'd be great for us." They're totally thinking about future them, future quarterly earnings things for shareholders, future bank balance. I mean, they're all over the future. Then you have the person that signs it away saying, "Oh, yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that note for this car." They're not thinking about the future. I'm trying to flip that around. I'm trying to have people think about their future and position themselves to be future-oriented, where then they're making decisions with both of you in mind, future Bobbi, present Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and it's hard, because the truth is one of the things that worries a lot of us right now is that things like you talk about a car, car loans are getting longer and longer in term to make the payments look lower, but ultimately, you're paying more, and it's over your head for a very long time.

Jesse Mecham:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're orienting where they know. Well, don't even look at the repo situation. I mean, how many times people will get cars repossessed, and the same car will get repossessed five times. There is someone making money in that scenario, and it's not the person driving the car. So that seven-year note that you see on cars now, they used to be three, then five. Now they're seven. All that is is an evolution of the financing of that GM, Ford. Every car company makes most of their money, most of their profits from the financing side of this, not from the manufacture of the car. They're putting it out to seven years because they know that future Toyota, future Honda, no knock on any of the companies, but they are future- and profit-oriented, and people that are buying the car are now-oriented.

Jesse Mecham:
That's where we have to just try and get that shift to happen. So you start paying yourself a car payment, saving up cash for it over time. It might mean that you buy a car that's beneath you for a little while, but then you trade up over time and you start paying cash for that. You get out of that car payment trap. It's not a given.

Bobbi Rebell:
Or you don't trade up. A lot of really wealthy people drive really crummy cars.

Jesse Mecham:
It is absolutely. Yeah. They're hiding in plain sight.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. One final tip. What does it mean to age your money?

Jesse Mecham:
So we're essentially talking about if you were to earn a dollar today that it would be 30 to 60 days before you actually spent that dollar. So when a dollar enters your system, the clock starts ticking, and that dollar starts getting older and older and older. Right now, most people that are living paycheck to paycheck, they are spending dollars. I mean, they have a pile of bills just waiting for money to land, and we want to flip that around. We want to have a pile of money where bills come and land and you're like, "Oh, okay, I've got the money here set aside."

Jesse Mecham:
If you follow our first three rules, which we talk about ad nauseum, if you follow our first three rules, that fourth rule where you start to spend money that's a little older, a little older, a little older, it almost just happens automatically. It's a way to step back from the financial edge. You sleep better. You can talk more effectively about money with your partner because the stress levels are much lower. You make better decisions because of those stress levels being lower. You probably live longer because your stress levels are lower.

Jesse Mecham:
That's the aging your money concept. Spend money that is old. When you think about swiping a card, you actually spend money that ... Well, the metaphor breaks down, but it hasn't even been born yet. You haven't even earned it yet. The shift that we're seeing where companies are paying people for that day, for that shift, and they think that's going to help people break the paycheck to paycheck cycle, that's not going to do it. We're just pushing that can down the road. We have to have people start to orient themselves around thinking a little further ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way that you are reframing this and the different perspectives that you're giving, because I'm sitting here listening, and my mind is turning. It's so interesting to come at this from a different perspective. So thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find out more about you and about your company?

Jesse Mecham:
You can just go to youneedabudget.com, and we are on all the social stuff. We're even on TikTok, which I don't even understand, but we're there. I personally am not on any of the social stuff. I stay plenty busy not doing that. But you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, all over the place. My podcast is called You Need a Budget as well, and if you loved listening to this silky voice, you can listen to it all you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
So great having you. Thank you.

Jesse Mecham:
Thanks so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's review some of what we learned from Jesse. First of all, it took 17 years for Jesse to get his business where it is now. So be prepared to play the long game with your goals. If you are working from home for the long haul, make sure you create structure to put up guardrails and protect your time so you don't get burned out. Remember, the kids are going back to school. Because kids were home at the same time, remote work was very different during the pandemic. With the kids back in school, it likely will be easier, but make sure to communicate with your family about exactly how things are going to run. Be prepared for abnormal expenses, which are actually kind of routine. We just don't think of it that way. Start putting money aside for unexpected expenses that you know to expect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Consider the future. When you were about to buy something, are you considering future you and how that will impact future you, the decision you make today, right? Break up your money and give every dollar a job to start getting control of your money. Think it through. When you borrow money, like for a car, know that the companies stretch out the length of the loan to make those payments lower. Do the math, but I'm going to bet you probably are going to pay more in the end. Age your money. Try to wait and have money in your account for a period of time before you spend it. It'll take a lot of anxiety out of your life. How do you lower the stress levels when it comes to money? I'd love to hear your ideas. DM me at bobbirebell1, and let me know.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you are shopping for gifts, please check out grownupgear.com. I will be eternally grateful for your business. As a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 gift card to grownupgear.com each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. We could also call it Financial Independence Day, I hope. I don't know. Maybe. There are two ways to enter to win. Take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media, and tag me at bobbirebell1. Then also email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That's hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter to win a $50 gift card to grownupgear.com is to write a review of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups Podcast on Apple Podcasts. Take a screenshot and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. So easy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Grownup Gear, as I like to say, is it's a micro business. We really do need and appreciate all of your support, so check it out and, of course, tell your friends. Big thanks to Jesse Mecham of You Need a Budget for helping us lower our stress levels and be our best financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup, the podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Entrepreneur Jennifer Owens found herself out of a job and out of luck after the startup she worked for folded. But the former Working Mother Editorial Director quickly set her self up for success using some creative strategies she shares on the podcast. 

Jennifer’s Money Story-

A startup I was part of failed, then I looked around and I was inspired by women who had done the same thing ahead of me. And it's formed my own consultancy, do all the things, make an LLC, get it filed right, do whatever. And then look and learn how to pitch myself as the content agency that I knew I could be. Basically like a fractional content agency to people who couldn't afford to hire me. And that was very exciting. And what I'm very proud of is that I got to do interesting projects, but I also got to continue to support my family. I talked to a lot of good friends that had done it before, to kind of learn from their mistakes. And people were very kind to share. I got my accountant from one person. I got the way you set up because when you start to set up, there are S Corps and C Corps. And so finding the one that's right for you, and that will get your tax accruing right. I learned from this network of people, I started reaching out. And yes, behind the scenes, it was very stressful. When that startup was dying, of all people, my mother said, "You know it's going to fall apart." She has the clear-eyed view of someone who can see, whereas when you're in it, you're like, "No, no, I can make it happen. I can keep it going." And no. So no, that was very stressful. And it was until the moment it clicked that, no my mother's right, which is always hard to admit. But my mother is right and I need to get my act together. That's when I started putting the pieces together and thinking about, I do the thing where I make a huge list of like a hundred things, what about this? What about that? What about this? And then start to break it down.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson-

If you're looking to pivot, if you think that your skills need to be burnished a bit in your resume, look around, look at resume writers. Because there are bots that are just like SEO is working on websites. Basically the same concept is looking at HR departments. That they are getting, because they're using Indeed and LinkedIn, they're getting hundreds of resumes. And so then they use these bots to scrape and to look at keywords. Is that your skill? I had to admit it wasn't my skill. I know how to do all kinds of content, but this is a specific kind of content. I think there's no shame in investing in yourself for certain skills that will help present you in the best light.

Jennifer’s Everyday Money Tip-

Talk to your older generation of your family about their money stories. Because I have gotten such an insight into, especially the women of my family. Learning about their approach to working and to money.

Bobbi’s Takeaways:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

If we're being honest, I have a really hard time pricing my work. That's why I depend on a team. My friends, my network of business colleagues who do work in the personal finance space and the content creation space that is somewhat similar to mine. I also talk to family, especially my husband. And in my case, I am fortunate, I have an agent who is familiar with the going rates in the market. Networking isn't just about getting the job. It's also about finding people to bounce ideas off of, and to learn from and about getting paid the right price when you do get the job.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

I love what Jen had to say about talking to older generations. We don't do it enough. I've learned so much about my parents' finances in just the last few years. Frankly, a lot of it was 100% different from what I had just assumed. Don't assume that you know your family's actual money story. Take the time to ask more questions. I'm putting it on my list as well.

Listen to The Bread Winners Podcast

Follow Jennifer!

• Twitter- @_jenniferowens

• LinkedIn- Jennifer Owens

• Website- www.jennwork.com

• Podcast- The Breadwinners

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com/
  

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Bobbi Rebell :

It is officially spring, and that means graduation season is on. We here at The Financial Grownup podcast have created some new super fun gifts just for that in our grownupgear.com merch store. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and the seriously, most cozy and comfortable sweaters, all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. Grownup gear also makes great gifts for mother's day, father's day, engagements, bachelor, bachelorette parties, birthdays. And of course, just for fun to treat yourself. Use code graduation for a 15% discount. And thank you in advance for your orders. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And we truly appreciate your support.

Jennifer Owens :

Behind the scenes. It was very stressful when that startup was dying/ of all people, my mother said, "You know it's going to fall apart." She has the clear-eyed view of someone who can see, whereas when you're in it, you're like, no, no.

Bobbi Rebell :

You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup. One lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell :

Hey friends, so I think that we have all probably had that sinking feeling, that something not so good is on the horizon. And it's just a matter of time before it hits us. But we actively work to just ignore it and hope we're wrong. And that everything's actually fine, even if it's pretty much crystal clear to our friends and family around us, that this is happening.

Bobbi Rebell :

As you just heard in the open for our guest Jen Owens, that person was her mother who had no doubt, the startup that Jen was working for was a sinking ship. And by the way, that is just the tip of the iceberg. But we'll get to that later.

Bobbi Rebell :

First, welcome everyone. This is the Financial Grownup podcast. We talk to financial grownups who share many stories and lessons and money tips all to help us on our own journeys. Now, I first met Jen Owens at an event ahead of the launch of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, when she was the Editorial Director at Working Mother. Her energy was, and frankly is still contagious. She is a force. Fast-forward and Jen has had a very exciting, as it turns out, but very unpredictable few years after leaving that job. And I'm not just talking about the COVID times. Even in the before, as we like to say.

Bobbi Rebell :

In addition to her consulting company, Jen works and a new corporate job. Jen is also the cohost of the Breadwinners podcast, which we will talk about later in her interview. But first let's get to that interview. Here is Jen Owens.

Bobbi Rebell :

Jen Owens, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennifer Owens :

Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell :

Congratulations on the continued success of the Breadwinners podcast. Always a great listen.

Jennifer Owens :

Oh, thank you. You know, very much inspired by the Financial Grownup, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell :

Oh thank you so much. Well, I'm glad to finally have you on here. You brought a money story that is very appropriate for a breadwinner and it has to do with what you did when no one would hire you. Jen, tell us your money story.

Jennifer Owens :

My money story is, how to stay in your career. Even when, how you think your career is supposed to look working for someone else. That's how I had done it for 30 years. So when a startup I was part of failed, then I looked around and I was inspired by women who had done the same thing ahead of me. And it's formed my own consultancy, do all the things, make an LLC, get it filed right, do whatever. And then look and learn how to pitch myself as the content agency that I knew I could be. Basically like a fractional content agency to people who couldn't afford to hire me. And that was very exciting. And what I'm very proud of is that I got to do interesting projects, but I also got to continue to support my family.

Bobbi Rebell :

Okay. But let's break it down. You made it sound like you made a simple checklist and boom, boom, boom. Everything came together. But we both know it was not so simple. Tell us more about what was going on behind the scenes, how you were feeling and how you really actually got those first clients. Because a lot of people hang up the shingle, me, myself and I consulting. And then crickets.

Jennifer Owens :

Yes. I talked to a lot of good friends that had done it before, to kind of learn from their mistakes. And people were very kind to share. I got my accountant from one person. I got the way you set up because when you start to set up, there are S Corps and C Corps. And so finding the one that's right for you, and that will get your tax accruing right. I learned from this network of people, I started reaching out. And yes, behind the scenes, it was very stressful. When that startup was dying, of all people, my mother said, "You know it's going to fall apart."

Bobbi Rebell :

Oh no.

Jennifer Owens :

Yes, well she has the clear-eyed view of someone who can see, whereas when you're in it, you're like, "No, no, I can make it happen. I can keep it going." And no. So no, that was very stressful. And it was until the moment it clicked that, no my mother's right, which is always hard to admit. But my mother is right and I need to get my act together. That's when I started putting the pieces together and thinking about, I do the thing where I make a huge list of like a hundred things, what about this? What about that? What about this? And then start to break it down. Just like you're talking about.

Jennifer Owens :

As for finding clients, I think your go-to spot is your network. I have been working for a lot of years and it's funny that in your network, people don't remember where you are. Because I had been at Working Mother Media for almost a decade and the startup had lasted a year. So people just assumed I was still at Working Mother. And you're like, "Aren't you following my every move?" So no, they don't. But that network from Working Mother, that's my passion anyways, that's my expertise. That's what I tapped first. And I reached out to people just to catch up. I reached out to find out what they were working on and that became my core of my first clients.

Bobbi Rebell :

One thing that's always been frustrating for me in my career is people that are well-meaning, but tell you to do things that you're doing. Because they're really obvious. I mean, if one more person tells me to apply to XYZ for a job that hasn't hired me yet to this day, I just don't know what to do. So what do you do when people give you, basically... It's not necessarily bad advice. It's just obvious advice and sort of condescending. Like, obviously I thought of that, but you don't want to say that when they're well-meaning. And you're like, "I'd rather, you just send business my way, if you, or someone you know, needs it." I don't need you to tell me to apply to this job. I'm doing this.

Jennifer Owens :

Right. I think one answer is to say, other than to be very polite and thank you as we all do, because we're all lovely ladies. But I think one way is to respond, to say, "Do you have any connections there? Do you have any insight there?" Like do you have anything? And if they do, pry it out to them. Get whatever connection. And if they don't have anything, well then thank you. Great. Moving on.

Bobbi Rebell :

And since many of your initial clients come from our friends basically, is it hard to get them to perceive the value in your work? Because one thing entrepreneurs also face is that many people think that because they're your friend or your family, that you're going to give them the discount. You're going to give them the friends and family rate. And you can to some degree, but long-term, that's not really a viable business strategy.

Jennifer Owens :

That's true. And I think that even the step back is to think of pricing. I did the classic thing where, to value yourself at the real rate. And what I mean by that is, I've come to learn after doing this for quite a while, that your rate is not just the moment of time that you're working. It's all the expertise and experience that you bring to that hour.

Jennifer Owens :

So you might work on a project, but the reason you can do it so quickly and so well, and so thoughtfully, and you can think about the future, it's because you have all this experience. Think of it as overhead, like intellectual overhead. So that's where I think talking to your network of peers, talk about pricing. I think people, at least privately, like you and I we'll talk about what we charge people. And you and another person. If we share this information, it really does help us know how to price ourselves, especially if you're new to the market of being an entrepreneur. Because then you can give a friends and family discount that won't hurt you.

Bobbi Rebell :

Very well said. So what is the lesson for our listeners, especially so many people that are rethinking how they're going to get back into the job market as hopefully things continue to improve with respect to the pandemic?

Jennifer Owens :

You know, honest to goodness, real down and dirty. I say, if you're looking to pivot, if you think that your skills need to be burnished a bit in your resume, look around, look at resume writers. Because there are bots that are just like SEO is working on websites. Basically the same concept is looking at HR departments. That they are getting, because they're using Indeed and LinkedIn, they're getting hundreds of resumes. And so then they use these bots to scrape and to look at keywords. Is that your skill? I had to admit it wasn't my skill. I know how to do all kinds of content, but this is a specific kind of content. I think there's no shame in investing in yourself for certain skills that will help present you in the best light.

Bobbi Rebell :

That's very interesting because I never thought about the fact that you need to really SEO optimize your resume these days. Because I've been working on trying to SEO optimize my website for the first time. And it's fascinating. And so that's something that is true. You may not have to do it that often, so it may be worth it to just outsource it rather than invest the time to learn to do it yourself. You may not do it that well yourself in the end. That's such good advice. You did bring with you in everyday money tip that is so... I don't know, it's just endearing. What's your everyday money tip Jen?

Jennifer Owens :

So my everyday money tip is to talk to your older generation of your family about their money stories. Because I have gotten such an insight into, especially the women of my family. Learning about their approach to working and to money. I have a story that my grandmother, my father's mother once followed an ad on the back of the bus to US Shoe, when shoe manufacturing is still a thing in the Northeast. And she got a job as a bookkeeper. And she came home, she had two kids at home, I think they had just entered high school. And her husband, my grandfather said, "Well, as long as you're home for making dinner." And like, "Come on dude." But very lovely parents.

Bobbi Rebell :

But that was actually probably considered very modern at the time.

Jennifer Owens :

And I said, Nana, why did you do that? She said, "Well, I was always good with figures." So she became a bookkeeper and that paid for college. ,That pin money was college money. And what's funny is I'm doing the same thing. What clients can I bring in to pay for college? So it makes me feel linked to my grandmother in a very visceral way.

Bobbi Rebell :

I love that. And it's such great advice because we do get so much information and context on financial decisions that were made in previous generations. And what we can take forward from talking to our older friends and relatives, whoever that may be. It might be your grandparents, but it might be somebody else your life. And I think that's such a wonderful thing to proactively do. Tell us more about everything else you're doing these days, starting with your podcast?

Jennifer Owens :

Well, thank you. The Breadwinners' just celebrated its 100th episode, which is quite the milestone. Can't believe we did that. So The Breadwinners is... We're looking at the world, the everyday hustle of life seen through those of us who have to work. Which is really everyone. So how it impacts our relationships, our careers certainly, our families, our communities. So we enjoy just talking to smart people, of which you shall be on. I am saying it right now for goodness sakes.

Bobbi Rebell :

Anytime. All right. Where can people follow you on social and all those things?

Jennifer Owens :

They can follow me on twitter @_jenniferowens and they can come to thebreadwinnerspodcast.com. All of it is there.

Bobbi Rebell :

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jen.

Jennifer Owens :

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell :

Okay. My friends, here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one. If we're being honest, I have a really hard time pricing my work. That's why I depend on a team. My friends, my network of business colleagues who do work in the personal finance space and the content creation space that is somewhat similar to mine. I also talk to family, especially my husband. And in my case, I am fortunate, I have an agent who is familiar with the going rates in the market. Networking isn't just about getting the job. It's also about finding people to bounce ideas off of, and to learn from and about getting paid the right price when you do get the job.

Bobbi Rebell :

Financial Grownup tip number two. I love what Jen had to say about talking to older generations. We don't do it enough. I've learned so much about my parents' finances in just the last few years. Frankly, a lot of it was 100% different from what I had just assumed. Don't assume that you know your family's actual money story. Take the time to ask more questions. I'm putting it on my list as well.

Bobbi Rebell :

Friends, I have more books to give away as we continue to celebrate financial literacy month. If you want to win a book from one of our Financial Grownup authors, just DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, that's Bobbi Rebell and the number one. And just write, "I want to win a book by a Financial Grownup author." And please continue to join my money tips for grownups club on clubhouse, DM me @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram if you need an invite. We meet every Friday at 1:00 PM Eastern time. And we look forward to having you as part of the conversation.

Bobbi Rebell :

I also encourage everyone to check out Jen's podcast, the Breadwinners podcast and big thanks of course, to Jen Owens for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell :

The Financial Grownup podcast is a production of BRK Media. The podcast is hosted by me, Bobbi Rebell, but the real magic happens behind the scenes with our team. Steve Stewart is our Editor and Producer and Amanda Saven is our Talent Coordinator and Content Creator. So yeah, that means she does the show notes, you can get for every show right on our website and all the fantastic graphics that you can see on our social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell :

Our mission here at Financial Grownup is to help you be at your financial best in every stage of life. And this year, we want to help you get there by giving away some of our favorite money books. To get yours make sure you are on the grownup list. Go to Bobbirebell.com to sign up for free. While you're there, please check out our grownup gear shop and help support the show by buying something to express your commitment to being a Financial Grownup. Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell. You can email us hello@financialgrownup.com. And if you enjoy the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grownup life.

Jessica Zweig leads the thriving personal branding business: Simply Be. But the author of the new book "Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself” only got to this point in her life because she was able to exit a toxic business relationship that brought her personally and financially to rock bottom. Plus she shares an everyday money tip that will help us reach our goals during the pandemic, no matter what obstacles we are facing. 

Jessica’s Money Story:

My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had 100,000 local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship." And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth. It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch.

Jessica’s Money Lesson:

Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page.

Jessica’s Money Tip:

So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships, and used the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. - This past week the dating app Bumble went public. Its founder,  Whitney Wolfe Herd started Bumble in 2014..  after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder, where she was a co-founder- after a breakup with another co-founder. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and is worth over a billion dollars. 

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

So many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic- in part because it feels like no one is watching. I mean after all. We can and do literally work in our pajamas. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time. Get an accountability partner. Get someone who will be committed to you- and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren’t doing that- break up fast and find another accountability partner. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy, but this more quiet time will come to an end, and the opportunity to get to your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste. 

Get your copy of Be: A No-Bullsh*t Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself.

Follow Jessica!

• Twitter - @jessica_zweig

• Instagram - @jessicazweig

• Jessica’s website - www.jessicazweig.com

• Facebook - Jessica Zweig

• LinkedIn - Jessica Zweig

Follow Bobbi!

• Twitter - @bobbirebell

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Merch - grownupgear.com

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: Question for you guys, are we ever going to get back to that whole dress-up for work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJ's and those grungy t-shirts and we need to give ourselves an upgraded but still super comfy wardrobe that makes us smile and ideally makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well.

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Bobbi Rebell: The debt and the brokeness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would've if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Financial Grownup Podcast. We share money stories here that had big impacts on our guests lives and of course then they share with us the lessons from them. I'm your host Bobbi Rebell, Journalist, Certified Financial Planner and author of the book How To Be a Financial Grownup. If you're new here welcome. I'm so glad you found us.

Bobbi Rebell: So that clip that you heard at the top of the show was from author and personal branding expert Jessica Zweig. Jessica has a new book out called Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. I have to say I love that title. The thing about Jessica is that if you don't know her you would never know all the things that she has had to overcome to well be where she is now that included a toxic business relationship that lasted for seven years. The breakup left her with nothing hitting rock bottom at age 33, even having to ask her parents for money just to pay her phone bill. Just when we think we will be hitting our grownup stride you never know what's going to hit us. There is a lot to learn from this remarkable woman and she does not hold back in this interview. Here is Jessica Zweig.

Bobbi Rebell: Jessica Zweig, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm pumped to be here.

Bobbi Rebell: Well, I am pumped to have you here. Your book Be, I'm holding it up by the way, Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself is about to come out and it's your first book. Congratulations.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much. You know how much goes into it so thank you for saying that.

Bobbi Rebell: I really enjoyed learning so much about you and what you teach people in the book. What's interesting is you come across as having it all together which you do now I'm going to say but it wasn't always the case. You brought with us a money story that is sadly something many of us can relate to but often don't know what to do with, I should say that often don't know what to do about, and that is finding ourselves in toxic relationships personally and in business in work environments. Tell us your money story Jessica.

Jessica Zweig: My first company was a magazine that I ran called Cheeky for seven years, from 2008 to 2014. I was 26 when I started that company. We launched the biggest platform for women in Chicago. We were the it fashion, food blog in the city. We had a hundred thousand local readers. And from the outside we were this really sparkly, successful business but on the inside we were very dysfunctional, toxic, and weren't really succeeding. And it was our first business. We were so young. I was 26, she was 24. I didn't know her that well when we went into business which is I think a common mistake people make when they meet someone they really love and they have that spark and then they get into business together and then they're like, "Oh my gosh. Business is like running a family and a marriage. It's such an intense relationship."

Jessica Zweig: And we really didn't know each other and so we just made a ton of mistakes. We opened up a ton of credit cards. She was managing the books, I was doing sales. We were so young, so green, so inexperienced and seven years later we had $75,000 worth of debt and I wanted to leave the business and she didn't. And so, I was willing to settle for my half of the debt and she was very, very upset with me for leaving and it was a really tough decision. I loved her, I loved the business. I mean, we were like sisters. We had a love, hate. After seven years of building something great with someone you do have a relationship. So it wasn't an easy thing but I think in many ways she looked at me like I was abandoning her but I was really just following my truth.

Jessica Zweig: It had run its course. I couldn't do it anymore. And I did want to clean up my side of the street and pay off my 50% of the debt with a payment plan because that's all I could afford. And I got a lawyer and she got hers and it just got really, really, really ugly and it took about seven, nine months for us to settle it. And I ended up paying 50% of the debt in one fell swoop and I had very little money in savings. I ended up having no choice but to just clear it and start from scratch. Bobbi Rebell: When you look back were there red flags that you should have spotted in the relationship, in the business in terms of the skills that you both brought?

Jessica Zweig: From day one. I mean, there were massive red flags. I think I realized three months in just how different we were but we were young and we were so naive and we both really loved this business. This magazine Cheeky was our baby. And so I didn't want to give it up and she didn't want to give it up and at the core there was a magic connection with us. We wouldn't have created what we created if there wasn't that synergistic spark. And we both loved each other to a degree which was what made it so difficult.

Jessica Zweig: But there were red flags and it was honestly one of the most toxic relationships of my life. I mean, we were together for seven years and we were water and vinegar. We were just totally different people. And I'm not saying I was better or she was worse, we were just different. I've come to so much peace and love and honestly forgiveness for myself first in the way that I showed up in that relationship as much as her and how she showed up in the relationship which I think has really been a huge key to me soaring in the last few years because I really did my own work.

Jessica Zweig: I think it's so easy to point fingers at people when they burn us or they hurt us or they come after us. There's that expression when you point one finger at someone, I mean do it, you're pointing three back at yourself. So you really do have to look at yourself in any sort of situation but when it comes to money it's especially loaded and I could still be angry, I could still be bitter, I could still be resentful. I don't feel any of those feelings. And it was the greatest learning lesson of my life. I applied all of those mistakes, all of those failures to simply be and simply be is so successful and it wouldn't have been unless I had that seven year chapter and run of making all of those mistakes.

Jessica Zweig: So, I think that everything happens for a reason and I feel like the debt and the brokenness has made me value money today and cherish money and respect money and operate my money with so much more reverence and care than I think I would have if I hadn't reached that rock bottom. So, everything happens for a reason and divine order. It's happening for you not to you even though it can really feel the opposite in the moment. I wouldn't be who I am without that business and that failure.

Bobbi Rebell: Can you me a specific example of something that happened that highlighted your differences? It doesn't have to be your biggest fight or something but something especially money related that you just never agreed on.

Jessica Zweig:I think we were both pretty irresponsible with the way we spent the business's money. I really wanted to grow it and scale it and exit. I wanted to be that type of entrepreneur and she wanted it to be a more lifestyle business. If you're going to go into business with anyone whether it's a business partner or someone on your team or your leadership team to really understand those nuances and get everyone on the same page. Because it sets the foundation for the type of business and the rate in which you want to grow and how you want to operate and who you want to do business with so, so much. And we just didn't have the skills. We were so young. We didn't have the tools to talk about money and business at that level. We were green as grass. So, of course it netted out the way that we netted out. And we also were really done when we opened up our credit cards. She was the personal guarantor on the credit cards. It was just mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah. I love that you're talking about the fact that it is so hard to talk about money and it sounds like you guys didn't have a lot of talks about money and how you were going to structure your firm and how you were going to fund it before you started it. What is the lesson for our listeners as we put it all in context?

Jessica Zweig: Communicate. Be willing to have hard conversations. Money makes people funny. I also would say, don't ever talk about money in those conversations on email or on Slack or even on the phone. We unfortunately can't get together in person so if you Zoom, Zoom, but in-person is best. Having sacred space around conversations, honoring this is uncomfortable, honoring this is important, honoring this is going to make or break our business if we don't talk about it. And we just didn't communicate. Our communication style was so dysfunctional and broken and I think actually way, way up and make the right decision to partner with the right people in the first place. Because if you do then you won't need to ceremonialize these conversations so much because you'll already be in the same vibration, in the same page. And yet money makes people funny no matter what and so you really have to recognize that in yourself and in the others and bring as much consciousness and integrity to those kinds of negotiations, conversations, whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell: I could talk to you forever about this but I want to get your everyday money tip because it's something that I am already implementing for 2021 and that is having accountability, having an accountability partner. Talk about that.

Jessica Zweig: Yeah. So I actually write about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on accountability partners. Because attempting to do anything great and big and significant for your life you need someone to keep you accountable. You need someone to hold you in check. So whether that's writing a book, launching a business, saving money, paying off your debt, having a partner in it is I think the key to the success of it all. And to be frank with you, I'm very fortunate. So the pandemic disrupted my business in a lot of beautiful ways, in a lot of challenging ways. And one of the things I did is I applied for the PPP. I had a finance team at the time that I didn't really fully like, they were fine, and they wanted to charge me $10,000 to apply for the PPP loan which I thought was the most counterintuitive request I've ever seen because we were a small business going into a pandemic applying for a loan and they wanted to charge us money.

Jessica Zweig: And so, I brought in my husband who is a financial advisor, as well as you are. And his business had kind of slowed down, he couldn't go out and network, we were quarantining. And he's like, "Jess, I'll help you with the PPP." He took one look at my finance team and was like, "Dude, I can do this better." And so I fired my finance team and I hired my husband. And my husband and I have always obviously been partners and accountable to each other because we're married but bringing him into my business...

Jessica Zweig: He's now my CFO, he helps me run the shop, saving money, ensuring that our P and L's are always balanced, making sure we're net profitable. Having someone that I trust, obviously I trust no one more than my own husband but he has really allowed me to fly as the CEO because I know that he's got things covered. And we operate like a legit finance CFO to CEO. We take weekly meetings. He has an agenda. We run through every money in money out, hiring, investments, savings. We don't have any debt in our business. It's a really powerful person, obviously it's my own husband. But if you can have someone to pulse check you, to support you, to believe in you, to honestly be able to see the forest from the trees more than you can in your own project or business or money endeavor that is so key.

Jessica Zweig: And then another thing that I have done that has really allowed me to get out of debt and save money and feel really, really peaceful and abundant and my husband has helped me with this is we've set up an account. I call it my island account and it's a bank account we can only put money in. And if I needed to take money out I'd have to drive all the way across town in the worst hours, whatever. It's my island account. I can only send money to it, it can only grow. And I'm stacking my cheddar as my accountant once told me and my husband helps me ensure that money is being sent to that account every single month and that we're totally able to send that level of money over to that account and that's really grown our savings. My husband and I sleep well at night because of it.

Jessica Zweig: And so those are the key hacks that having my husband and having that account has changed honestly my financial wellbeing more than my finances but more of my financial wellbeing, which I think is key to vibrating at that level of abundance and attracting more.

Bobbi Rebell: That's such great advice. There's also a lot more great advice and I'm picking up your book now even though I know we're on audio and your book, okay I'm going to read the title Be, with a period, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing Your Self-Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. And I love the yellow cover. Yellow became one of your themes in the book so it transcends so much about you and your sunny personality. Tell us briefly about the book.

Jessica Zweig: So the book is a personal branding book. It's going to walk you through my trademark methodology of how to build your platform, the platform of you. Whether you work for yourself, or you work for someone else, or you want to one day work for yourself, having an understanding of what makes you you is an invaluable asset that you can take with you no matter what your job title is. That's number one. It's going to teach you tactically step-by-step how to do that from messaging, to strategy, to content, to social media, to PR.

Jessica Zweig: However, it is a personal empowerment book in fact disguised as a business book. Because I think at the core most people feel afraid to do that and to put themselves out there. And I say that my book is the permission slip and the reminder that you are worthy to be seen and to shine and to have everything you ever want. And it's my own journey in fact as well and my uncovering that truth for myself. And so, I'm right along with you throughout the whole book and you're going to take away so much tactical knowledge but at the end of the day I hope it inspires people to stop playing small and stop apologizing for their authentic amazingness. And that's what my book Be is about.

Bobbi Rebell: One of the recommendations in the book is to keep your social media and all of your public identifying names, et cetera, very consistent. So let's end with you telling us where people can find you on all of the social media because I know you keep it easy.

Jessica Zweig: I walk the talk as I say I drink my own Kool-Aid. So yes I am at Jessica Zweig on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, jessicazweig.com. You can also go to simplybeagency.com which is my company's website and find me. I'm really, really, really easy to find. I'm out there. So please come and say hi.

Bobbi Rebell: Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica Zweig: Thank you so much for having me. This was amazing.

Bobbi Rebell: Here we go my friends Financial Grownup tip number one, some of the greatest business and financial success stories come from people who have survived toxic business relationships like Jessica, and like Jessica they use the lessons from those crushing and painful experiences to thrive in their next venture. This past week the dating app Bumble went public and its founder Whitney Wolfe-Herd started Bumble in 2014 after she very publicly left the dating app Tinder where she was a co-founder after a breakup with another co-founder. And she's talked about it a lot, it was a toxic relationship for sure. She is now the youngest female CEO to take her company public and worth over a billion dollars. What a great story.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial Grownup tip number two, so many of us are having trouble staying on track to meet our goals during the pandemic in part because it feels like no one's watching. I mean, after all we can and do literally work in our pajamas, certainly the off-camera part. We can quite literally take a nap between meetings. So it is time, get an accountability partner like Jessica. Get someone who will be committed to you and to whom you will also be committed to keeping on track. And if you both aren't doing that well break up fast and find another accountability partner who's a better fit. Nothing wrong with taking it a little easy but this more quiet time will come to an end and the opportunity to get your goals without so many distractions should not go to waste.

Bobbi Rebell: One way to get motivated, get out of those PJ's. Realistically, I know we aren't getting dressed up but have some fun with your pandemic wardrobe. That's what I know I needed when I came up with a concept for Grownup Gear it is all about celebrating wherever we are in our journey to being grown ups which never really ends let's be honest. Check out the designs on my website, bobbirebell.com. Click on shop or just go directly to grownupgear.com. And please be in touch. DM me what you want more of on this podcast. I love your feedback. I put discount codes for Grownup Gear on my Instagram, which by the way is Bobbi Rebell one. And we did just start a Grownup Gear Instagram. We don't have a lot of followers so please come check it out. That's at @GrownupGear on Instagram.

Bobbi Rebell: So big thanks to Jessica Zweig, author of Be, A No Bullshit Guide to Increasing You Self-Worth and Your Net Worth By Simply Being Yourself. Everyone check out the book and thanks again to Jessica for helping us all be financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

Fran’s money story:

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Fran’s Money Lesson:

I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Fran’s Everyday Money Tip:

Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Financial Grownup tip number one

one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.


Financial Grownup tip number two

don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Episode Links:

• Fran’s website - Franhauser.com

• Fran’s book - The Myth of the Nice Girl

 

Follow Fran!

• instagram - @fran_hauser

• twitter - @fran_hauser

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Starting your life is expensive, and so is starting a business. Canvas and Hyde Founder Lisa Pongrass quickly learned that not having insurance, or ordering in bulk to save money can come back to hit your bottom line before you even have a top line. 

Lisa’s Money Story:

Lisa Pongrass:
So interestingly, I'm self-funded and when I started the business I had to go out and source all of the materials. And having never worked in this field before, I went door to door, found the great leathers. In fact, I flew to Miami to get the hides hat I was using initially for the bags. What I found, and because I guess when there's skin in the game, your own skin in the game, so much of it you really want to get the best prices for everything. And I found that people offered me greater discounts when I bought volume, which is pretty much standard in the industry. So of course what did I do? I bought volume in the assumption that I would be making certain amount of inventory.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have any presales at this point?

Lisa Pongrass:
None.

Bobbi Rebell:
You had no orders. Okay.

Lisa Pongrass:
No orders at this point. I'm a brand new brand. Never made a bag before. And I guess someone had said to me once that one of the single biggest contributing factors to small business failure is a lack of cashflow. And it obviously didn't resonate enough because I found quite quickly that I had all this great material but not the cashflow to use it to go into production with all the bags. So had I had my time again, I definitely would have done that a little bit differently.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened? How'd you get out of this mess?

Lisa Pongrass:
How did I get out of the mess? Well, I didn't use all my capital and I did start selling the bags quite quickly. I got into 23 stores and that was then able to bring money back into the business. There were a few sleepless nights in there. In this industry, in the fashion industry, you make things and you, unless everything is for order, you never know if it's going to work or not. There's a little bit of a risk and a lot of luck. Fear is a little bit paralyzing. So I tried to not come from a place of fear. I had to have confidence and I did have confidence in what I was creating. I was just very lucky to be around women friends who empowered me and kept me going. For example, when you're buying the skins, you get a better price to buy more. But when you buy the hardware, I use the very best nickel plated brass, the best hardware, and it's expensive.

Lisa Pongrass:
But if you buy a thousand of something, it's not as expensive. So I was buying in the thousands of these pieces of hardware. I use them all in the end. I mean, it's three years in, so I've actually had a chance to use them all, thank goodness. I've still got some skins sitting in storage, but how did I get out of it? I think just then the cash flow started to change the sales. So I would be getting checks from my retailers and I was able to get myself out of it. You know, looking back, if someone had said to me, "Pay a little extra but get less so you're not in the hole for that amount of money." I probably would have listened and that would've been a more prudent way to go about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did it motivate you in a way because you suddenly had a clock ticking, even though you had a little extra cash? There's something to be said for that pressure, whether it's welcome or not, it was there.

Lisa Pongrass:
Absolutely. Look, it's a catch 22, because by getting a better price when you're doing your costings, you're able to use that better price to put together what it actually costs you to make. However, if the money is tied up on developed or manufactured bags, then it's dead money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have any business background? I mean, what were you basing all these ideas on?

Lisa Pongrass:
So I'd worked in PR and Marketing. I'd worked for a magazine as a Deputy Editor of a fashion mag, and I'd also worked as an agent, a fashion agent. So I'd been in sales, but I'd never been in the business side of production before. The logistics of just going into production, of sourcing materials, of getting the best prices for things. I'd never done any of that and I had zero experience. Luckily I was very naive, because I look back now and had I known what I know now, I think I would have been too fearful to go into it. But I was ... ignorance is bliss in a bit of a way, and I thought, "How hard can it be? It's not brain surgery."

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you educate yourself?

Lisa Pongrass:
Trial and error. I've made some mistakes that were very costly. One mistake that cost me $8,000, that I'll never see is my manufacturer delivered my first order from overseas. So now I've diversified manufacturing. It's New York and Italy, and they just sent the order and they didn't insure it. I didn't know, I just assumed that that was part of the shipment. They didn't insure it and FedEx lost one of my boxes. So they didn't cover it. My manufacturer didn't cover it and I had to wear it.

“Slow down and don’t rush into committing to things you don’t need.”

Lisa’s Money Lesson:

Lisa Pongrass:
You know, one of the ones that I've learned is there are lots of hidden costs that you don't see day to day. For example, when you have a website and you're with Square, there's a monthly fee. When you sell something, there is a vendor's fee, which is I think three or 4% transaction fee. Google Drive. There's a monthly fee. QuickBooks, there's a monthly fee. There are so many fees that you sign up for at the beginning and then after a while you're thinking, "Wow, why is the bank balance diminishing so rapidly?" And then when you go back in and you check it out, you think, "Well, I don't really need that anymore. I don't need QuickBooks yet." Certain businesses, every business is different, but I certainly learnt that I signed up for things like Yelp or certain social media things that I really didn't need to do and I thought I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it sounds like basically when you started your business you had costs, whether it be from buying too much inventory initially, too much supplies, and also maybe signing up for so many things that are ongoing subscriptions that maybe you found out you didn't necessarily need, they weren't quite right. What is the lesson from all of this for our listeners?

Lisa Pongrass:
I think take it slow. I think probably slow down and don't rush into committing to things that you don't really need. At the time, you think that you do need them. And then maybe revise it more regularly than I did. I certainly know that for the first year I worked out of my home, which was a good thing to do. I had that advice from people, don't go and get an office or a showroom too quickly, which I didn't do. And I'm very glad I have an office and a showroom now and I don't think I could ever work from home again, because I've just grown too much. But take it slow, take it slow.

“Unless everything is for order, you never know if it’s going to work or not. It’s a little risk and a lot of luck.”

Lisa’s Money Tip:

Lisa Pongrass:
I recently was going through my finances and I saw that one of the biggest expenses I had monthly was my dry cleaning bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
We can all relate.

Lisa Pongrass:
I do buy quality, so I'm wearing things that are from 10 years ago, [inaudible 00:10:49] beautiful quality. So I bought a steamer and I realized that you can have something that's beautiful that says dry clean only, but it doesn't literally mean that you have to dry clean it. You can steam it yourself. So I'm hoping that that's going to really reduce my cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also, and I'm going to force you to throw in another one that you mentioned to me before we started recording, about your dog, which is another fun, easy way to save money. Maybe not always fun.

Lisa Pongrass:
My baby. Well, grooming is so expensive. So, now I obviously I can't cut him myself, but I wash him myself and it's a really nice bonding experience for my baby and I, but it also saves me between 80 and $100 for a wash. So I do that. We do that every three or four weeks and he loves it and I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's so cute. It's so cute. And that's significant money. That's for real. I mean, if you're saving a hundred bucks a month, that's $1,200 a year. That is a lot of money.

Lisa Pongrass:
Yeah. Not only am I saving money, but he and I are having a fun time. In fact, it always seems like one of those things, "Oh, I've got to wash the dog." And then the minute you started, it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is. We actually, we wash our dog. My listeners know my dog is Waffles, she's a Morkie and my husband's really primarily in charge of the washing. I am in charge of the drying. And she loves it, she loves it.

Lisa Pongrass:
Does she love it?

Bobbi Rebell:
She goes into the shower? Yes, and she's super cute and she always looks so good when she comes out all clean.

Lisa Pongrass:
Does your dog run around the house crazy when she's wet?

Bobbi Rebell:
No, she does not. She stands nicely and waits for us to dry her. She's a very well behaved dog, so I take it yours does.

Lisa Pongrass:
When he's wet. He can't wait to get out of the towel and then he just zooms around the house and rubs up against the sofa. It's very funny.

“Luckily I was very naive, because I look back now and had I known what I know now, I think I would have been too fearful to go into it.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Lisa went through her business expenses and realized that all the little things were really adding up to big things. This applies to apps, subscriptions, and probably a lot of things that I'm not even thinking of right now. Some of them may be worth it, but sometimes you realize maybe you don't need the premium version of everything. Maybe you can step it down a notch. Do an inventory of all the little things, cut as many as you possibly can, maybe cut all of them even and then just add them back in one by one, the ones that you feel you really need or you miss.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Lisa talks about buying a steamer and slashing her dry cleaning bill. She also washes her dog at home. The truth is we can all do a lot more at home. If you're into facials, maybe go sometimes, but do some at home for example, or find ways to make things last longer. Take your shoes and have new soles put on them instead of going out and purchasing new ones. It's also a lot more sustainable, better for the environment.

Episode Links:

• Lisa's website - www.canvasandhyde.com

Follow Lisa + Canvas & Hyde!

• Instagram - @canvasandhyde

• Facebook - @canvasandhyde

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Dani Nagel has had to defend her pricey Dazey-LA t-shirts but her refusal to cave to pressure to ship manufacturing overseas is winning her fans, and a growing army of ambassadors. She shares her strategies to leverage social media to create transparency, and grow her feminist brand.

Dani's money story:

Dani Nagel:
For sure. I love that article and when it came out, I didn't know what the title was going to be, I just did the interview with them, and I just laughed out loud. Literally the title was Why Thousands of People Are Spending $52 On These T-shirts. And it does seem so backwards because people are used to paying $20 maybe $30 for a shirt, and our shirts are $52, and they're made to order so people are waiting sometimes three weeks to get their shirts. So it seems so backwards in this Amazon age of people getting things in a couple of days at rock bottom prices. But we are all about slow fashion and we make our shirts sustainably out of organic cotton right here in Los Angeles, and they're made to order to eliminate all waste.

“I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our t’s and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted.”

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come to the idea that you're going to produce garments this way? Because I'm sure people said to you, "Oh, you should just offshore this and you can retail them for under 10 bucks."

Dani Nagel:
Oh, totally. Every time I look at the prices of producing it in a different place, it's tempting. I'm not going to do it. Like I'm strong standing by my values, but oh my gosh, it's very tempting. You can get things made for a fraction of the price. But another big part of my clothing line is all about female empowerment, and I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our tees and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted. And the truth is that most clothing companies can't say that. Production overseas is extremely inhumane and the garment workers are being oppressed, they're being in dangerous working conditions, paid extremely low wages, and we couldn't be a company that stood for female empowerment and put empowering phrases on our shirts without also thinking about everyone a part of that process.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you presented these shirts to interested parties, investors, et cetera, what was the reaction? Was there pushback?

Dani Nagel:
You know, where we get the most pushback is when we do Facebook ads, because people just don't understand and they're quick to judge. But luckily with our customers we spend so much time on social media educating them why the shirt costs that much and why it's truly valuable and it should cost that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And can you tell us more about where is the money going? I don't know if you can literally break down $52 but whatever you feel comfortable disclosing.

Dani Nagel:
Our shirts are actually made to order in Los Angeles, which is really crazy and nobody really does that because it's really difficult. But by doing that, we've been able to eliminate all waste in our production, which is one of the biggest reasons why the fashion industry is the number two polluting industry in the world, there's so much waste. We have partnered with an amazing production company. My production partner, Kelly, has worked with us. We're the Guinea pigs on this big project he had and we met right when I was starting Dazey. And he has a facility in Los Angeles. They small batch make the shirts, so they'll make like 10 shirts in mustard and 10 shirts in off-white. And when the shirts are ordered, that's when they're printed. So it's a really complicated process and it does take time and we really embrace the term slow fashion as literally this is going to be slow. We use that a lot in our marketing.

Dani’s money lesson:

“if you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production which is the person making it and paying them a fair living wage.”

I'm happy to stand up for our shirts every time we get one of those comments, like trolls on Instagram. And since our clothing is so much about female empowerment, some people see the price of our shirts and say something like, "Okay, your shirts aren't economically inclusive." Our brand is all about inclusivity, empowerment and people will say that. And my response to them is, "If you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production, which is the person making it, and paying them a fair living wage is truly what is going to be as economically inclusive as possible." And the truth is when you're paying $20, I mean maybe not $20, like $10, even 20 honestly for these shirts, someone else is paying the cost. That's usually somebody in the line of production being taken advantage of by these fast fashion companies. So I think the most feminist thing is paying for a shirt where everyone is being treated fairly in the process.

Dani's everyday money tip:

And as a slow fashion brand working with really tight margins, which people are always surprised to hear even with the $52 shirts, our margins are tight, making things to order here in LA, so I have to be really careful about our budgeting as a company and where I allocate my time as a small business owner. And something I did with my business coach, which really opened my mind to finances and allocating time was creating a list of how much time you spend doing each task and how much money that task generates. And she had me write down a list, and a couple of things on my list was our online blog. We run a blog, we promote a lot of other female owned businesses, talk about empowerment, and we were spending so much time curating this truly beautiful blog, almost like an article media website. And the truth is not a lot of people are reading our long form content.

And then I wrote down the time I spent on our ambassador program, which is something that generates a lot of money, and I was spending way more time on the blog that wasn't really generating us money and not enough time into our ambassador program. And putting it down on paper and looking at it was like a smack in the face and I realized I needed to better allocate my time. So once every few months, I sit down and kind of write down all the tasks I'm doing and what I'm getting back from those tasks, and I reprioritize the things. It's made a huge impact on our super nimble bootstraps business.

Episode Links:

Dani’s website - www.dazeyla.com

The Forbes article - Why Thousands Of Customers Pay $52 For These T-Shirts

Follow Dani!

• Instagram - @Dazey_LA

• Instagram - @Dazey_Dessert_House

• Instagram - @BizBabez

• Twitter - @dazey_la

• Facebook - @DazeyLA

The cash crunch that led to a business that is disrupting the ultra short-term loan space

Travis Holoway started a Solo Funds, aimed at disrupting the short term, small loan industry by leveraging technology and offering a new kind of lending culture.

Travis: I was working on Wall Street and I was studying to be a broker and there's these exams that you have to take. They're series exams, but FINRA is the regulatory body. You know these exams are very strenuous and you're not really making money while you're studying for those exams.

Bobbi: So give me an example of what a typical salary would be and then what the cost of living is.

Travis: Man, if I remember correctly, I think I was making $250 a week.

Bobbi: Working at a financial company?

Travis: Yes. Working at a financial company in New York City.

Bobbi: What was your job there?

Travis: I was studying to be a broker. It's like a glorified intern, if you will. After you factor in the metro card I couldn't even afford much in the financial district where lunch was costing about $12 a day. So I took a job at CVS. Unpacking trucks, third shift and I would work 10 to six at night. I would come home at six o'clock I would shower, I would put a suit back on and I would head back into the office.

Bobbi: So you literally didn't sleep?

Travis: No sleep at all.

“ So even with working around the clock, I still couldn’t afford any financial surprises. I remember walking like 90 city blocks because I had no money left in my metro card.”

Travis: Actually what happened was I swiped my metro card and there should have been enough for another fair, but for some reason it didn't work. And the attendant told me that I had to mail them my metro card for them to figure out what happened. But long story short, that led to me walking 90 city blocks home. So humbling times.

Bobbi: So you're living this life where you're technically employed by brokers a firm, but you're really a glorified intern earning very little money. You've got a second job at CVS working overnight. So you're really not sleeping much. How does that play out?

Travis: So this situation for me didn't change or evolve until I actually took another job at another financial services firm where there was a more stable salary. And from that point I've been able to rise up the financial spectrum. But it was until I moved and changed positions that I was able to pull myself out of those financial circumstances.

Bobbi: You did pass the exams obviously?

Travis: Yes.

Bobbi: So basically by getting a higher paying job, that's what solved the problem for you?

Travis: Exactly. For me personally, yes.

The lesson here is really to focus on saving

Travis: Focus on getting to that first $500. If you have just $500 in liquid capital, you're actually doing better than half of the country. So people like to get down on themselves because they feel like they're not exactly where they want to be, but it's really a journey. And you know, it's a marathon. It doesn't happen overnight. But celebrate those little milestones along the way. You get to that first $500 saved, keep going, get to a thousand then get to 5,000 and just keep pushing yourself. But this doesn't happen over night for anyone except for power ball winners.

“Later on, I would talk to my friends and they would give me some feedback of what those payday loans actually meant for them. ”

So don't give up. I had friends who had taken payday loans during college and then post college and they would say, hey, just go to this brick and mortar building and get this loan for $400 and I would say, yeah, that sounds good. But there has to be more into that. And then after kind of speaking with my parents who actually steered me away from that and did everything that they could for me to prevent me from taking a payday loan, they're the ones who gave me that knowledge.

While it sounded like a good idea at the time, because their backs were against the wall and it seemed easy to go and get that capital after the fact, it really put them in a very tough financial situation because the fees that compound on top of those loans, it took them months and sometimes years to get out of.

My money tip is if you have the ability, add your teenage child or spouse that may have little or no credit to your credit card account as an authorized user.

Travis: Inversely, if you have a parent or a spouse that has more credit card accounts or better credit than you encourage them to add you to theirs. 28% of the country has no credit from any source and it's really important to build credit. And I personally believe that the FICO score stat, and I know we'll talk about that a little bit later, but credit is still required to accomplish many of life's financial milestones. So with that said, I believe that this is a tip best often overlooked and it's a great way to build credit. One your actual credit and limit I going to be considerably higher than it would be if you were applying for a brand new card. And then also the length of time that that account has been opened will also be a positive benefit to your overall credit report. So as payments are made to that card, they will positively impact everyone associated and it will help people build credit indirectly.

Bobbi: Right. And even though there is a lot of controversy right now about fico scores, especially with errors that can sometimes happen, which people should be vigilant about checking their credits so they can see if there are errors by the way. It is a time when people are looking for different solutions for access to money.

I really wanted to have you on because the company that you are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

About Travis; company Solo Funds

Bobbi: You are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

Travis: SoLo in short is a mobile mini exchange created to provide more affordable access to small dollar loans below $1,000.

We function very much like Airbnb for loans, but we were essentially created to disrupt that predatory payday lending industry that you're speaking about.

“. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower.”

The way that our platform works is it's a two sided marketplace and we're very different than some of the marketplaces that many have heard of like a lending tree or lending cloud primarily because we're focused on these small dollar loans and those larger, what I call big brother peer to peer lending companies are focused on loans up to $40,000. So that might be debt re-consolidation that might be a down payment on a home. We're focused on that American that's living paycheck to paycheck and that single mother that needs $100 to pay her utility bill or the college student who is $200 short for that textbook. That's who we're really trying to help.


Bobbi: I think one thing that's interesting here is that this could really apply even to families lending to other family members or friend to friend because you're providing a documentation and a paper trail effect if it's digital, but you're providing an authority in between. Because very often people are asked to lend money to people close to them and it becomes awkward. You don't want to be asking them. But if you go through the app, can you talk a little bit about how that would work because it creates a stronger outcome, a better outcome because you've made it more of an official loan, I guess.

Travis: Yes, exactly. So the reason why the platform is built that way is because the personal experiences that I had, lending and borrowing amongst friends and family. With that said, we're making this a real transaction and we're putting real terms around a loan. So people are lending and borrowing amongst each other every day via cash or other applications. But there's no terms around that. So if I wanted to borrow money from my mother and she said, Hey, I'll lend you the money but I'll lend it to you on SoLo, I would create a transaction on SoLo, which is basically saying I need to borrow $100. I as the borrower can actually create my own terms. The lender just agrees to the terms at a later point.


Bobbi: Right. So you can say, I'm going to pay zero interest mom, is that okay? And Mom can say, oh, that's okay. I don't want interest or mom can say I'm pulling money out of other investments. I want 5% whatever it is, you guys can work it out.


Travis: Exactly. Once we agree on those terms, there is a promissory note. A digital promissory note which is created which now says that I owe my mother X amount of dollars and that is actually enforceable. So the lender has track record of how much was lent, when the repayment is due and if there is any additional fee associated with that in the form of a return.

Bobbi: How is it enforceable and how do you guys get paid?

Travis: You know there are no impose fees on the SoLo platform, which makes us much more unique than any other financial platform today. So there are no imposed interest rates and there are no impose fees on behalf for SoLo. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower. And then solo actually makes a donation, which is also optional and paid by the borrower. Again, no imposed fees. So the enforceability comes into play where if a borrower does not repay, the lender the discretion to send that borrower or not send that borrower to collections. We have a third party collections company that we'll work on behalf of the lender to recover the funds. And once we recover those funds are directed directly back to the lender.

Bobbi: And what is your default rate? How often does that happen and how does it compare to payday loans?

Travis: Our default rate is two times better than the lending clubs, lending trees and [inaudible 00:12:15] of the world. We're about five times better than traditional payday loans. One of the things that investors are most excited about and other people are most excited about is this new creation of a credit score. I believe the fico score is dead because millennials in the under bank demographics are not doing the same. They're not living their lives the way that prior generations have like buying homes, buying cars, and using credit cards. So with that set, alternative data is necessary. And solo has this data on the under banked and millennial demographic and our goal is to be a path forward to upper financial mobility to where we can graduate borrowers from our platform to more traditional financial institutions in the future where they can have more resources and financial tools.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

#1: If someone that you care about needs money, in a cash crunch for example, and you have the money available but it needs to be a loan, not a gift, make sure you document it. Obviously SoLo Funds is an option to look into, but you can also draw up a payment plan or whatever. Just make sure the terms are clear and in writing.

#2: . Things for Travis did not turn around because he cut costs. They turned around when he got a better paying job. He got a better paying job by putting in the time to work basically as an intern and to study and then pass some big exams. They gave him more viability in the job market. Watch your money, of course, do not spend foolishly, but the goal always needs to be to earn more.

No one can cut their costs to get wealthy. Do the work, get a higher paying job, earn more money or some way to boost your income. That is ultimately what is going to build more money. More financial freedom is having more money. You can't cut your way to getting rich.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Check out Travis' website - https://solofunds.com/

Follow Travis!

• Instagram - @SoLoFunds

• Facebook - @SoLoFundsInc

• Twitter - @SoloFunds

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration.

In Kelsey's money story you will learn:

• How this young mom started a company from a product she made to keep her son clean during mealtime

• How she started a business with a $99 dollar sewing machine and $20 in fabric

• How her first sale on Etsy launched her into full business mode and the things she had to learn along the way

• The importance asking questions even when you're nervous to do so

In Kelsey's money lesson you will learn:

• If you have an idea, just go for it

• If you aren't embarrassed by the first version of your product you've started too late

In Kelsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Realizing that at some point that you can't do it all

• The importance of finding and identifying people that are great with aspects of your business that you aren't so good at

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from

• Why you'll want to do some test marketing before going all in on your side hustle
  
  

Check out Kelsey's website -

BapronBaby.com

Follow Kelsey!

• Instagram - @BapronBaby

• Facebook - @BapronBaby

• Pinterest - @BapronBaby

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can take a side hustle and turn it into a successful business. #Entrepreneur #SideHustle

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Kelsey Larsen:
I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product. I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people that I had no business talking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was entrepreneur, Kelsey Larsen of BapronBaby talking about jumping in big when she decided her hobby, making unique bibs that wrap around the baby, was going to be a lot more than a stay-at-home mom hobby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup friends and special welcome to our newest listeners. If you have a moment, I want to hear how you discovered the show and also any feedback or suggestions. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or email hello@financialgrownup.com. As I said, suggestions, feedback, anything that can help me improve the show and grow the show, truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to BapronBaby's Kelsey Larsen. The biggest of her story is really relatable but where she went and where she's going is pretty extraordinary and something that we can all learn from. There's so many decisions that she's made so far that really changed the course of where the company is going and that's affected her life and her business. Make sure you stay for our everyday money tip by the way. It is about a vision board, but it's not really the kind of vision board that you're used to. It's got a big twist that I think you guys are going to really get a lot from. Here is BapronBaby founder, Kelsey Larsen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kelsey Larson. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kelsey Larsen:
Thanks, Bobbi. It's so good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your business. You are the founder and the owner. We practiced saying the name because I kept messing it up. It's BapronBaby.

Kelsey Larsen:
BapronBaby. Yeah, it's got- [crosstalk 00:02:32]

Bobbi Rebell:
Which I do want to point out is self-funded and debt-free and you have really ... I mean, your main product are these, I wish they were around when my son was younger, these bibs that are basically for the babies that rip off the bibs and throw them to the side, which is pretty much, at least my kid, a lot of kids.

Kelsey Larsen:
Exactly. The company, I started because my son wouldn't wear bibs and I was getting so frustrated with how many of his outfits he was ruining.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Outfits, furniture, walls. So much can be ruined.

Kelsey Larsen:
All of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All of the things. And I want to talk to you about how this become "A real company," a real brand because you're now in everywhere from Buy Buy Baby, you're on Amazon, just everywhere that you would ... I think over a hundred boutiques in this country. If this started as a hobby though, how did you know this could be a brand? Tell us your money story.

Kelsey Larsen:
You know, it sort of started out a necessity. I was a young mom. I had quite my job in HR to stay home with my little boy and I was living the dream, but my husband's a police officer and we started looking through things and we were like wow, we need some additional income. I had made this product for my son. It was just something that I had created for him because I needed something that would cover his entire body when he was eating meal time and he was comfortable in it. A friend mentioned Etsy. I had never heard of it. I had never sold anything on it, for sure. And I just sort of made a listing. I took some pictures of a bib that my son ... It was a Bapron that my son had actually worn. It was kind of dirty. Just took a picture of it and say hey, I'll sell this to you for ... I think I said like ... My first one, I think I sold for $17.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you just made it at home. You had just made this yourself?

Kelsey Larsen:
I started this business. Honestly, I started everything that I have with a $99 Brother sewing machine and 20 bucks in fabric. It was just something I made in my living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Okay. So, how did you go from ... Now, you start selling it on Etsy. What happens?

Kelsey Larsen:
My very first listing sold within 24 hours to someone I had never met, a stranger in Illinois. All of a sudden, I needed packaging. I needed to figure out how I was going to send this to her. I couldn't just send it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't thought about that?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. No, I didn't think I was ever going to sell anything. So, I had a printer and I went online and I used Microsoft Paint to make myself a logo and write a few words about the product and printed it out and it was very homemade.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that went on for about a year, the Etsy selling. Then, you made a decision to really turn this into a brand. What happened?

Kelsey Larsen:
From Etsy, I gained a little bit of confidence. I started realizing that this is a product that mothers and families need. Toddlers are really happy in it. They're comfortable and they're working. They're waterproof. They have everything that we need. So, I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product ... I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people I had no business talking with. The owner of EzPz, Lindsey Laurain, she ... I reached out to her. One email ... I think I sent her an email on Christmas Eve.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cold? You didn't know her at all?

Kelsey Larsen:
Oh no. No contact prior to it but I knew that she had been on Shark Tank and it was something I had been thinking about. So, I kind of angled it as like "Hey, I'm someone coming up the same path you did and I wanted some insight." It was Christmas Eve and she responded to me at like 11:00 at night within 20 minutes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, wow.

Kelsey Larsen:
She was so quick to answer questions and so quick to give me her tips because she kind of did start the same way. Just a ... Like a mom who had a product that she needed to get out in the world. From there, I was able to awkwardly ask her the questions about "Hey, who makes packages? How do you find a company that does that?" Because when I Googled it, I couldn't really find much. So, a series of those awkward conversation where I asked someone who was successful already and- [crosstalk 00:06:36]

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were just cold calling these people? You were just emailing this people cold?

Kelsey Larsen:
Honestly, it was basically just sending a message on Instagram or finding an email address or just little things here and there. There were businesses that did not ever respond to me, but that's okay. I mean, not everybody has to give me the time of day. Just reaching out about very specific questions and little by little, I found contacts for manufacturing and then I found contacts for a team here in the United States who does the actual sewing of the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then how did you grow it? How did it become this bigger brand that's now in so many retailers?

Kelsey Larsen:
Instagram has been a wonderful wonderful tool and being able to connect with other mothers has been great. Word of mouth advertising is the most successful form of marketing and I never could have grown my business without customers taking my photos. I don't have a photo studio but we're still growing to Buy Buy Baby and we're in Nordstrom and we're on Amazon in these places that I never could have done on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait. What happens is people take pictures of their own babies ... And do you prompt them to do that? Do you ask them to do that or did this just start happening?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. At first, I was just on Instagram trying to [huck 00:07:50] my product to the 12 followers that I had or something. That first customer that I told you about on Etsy, she had bought the Bapron specifically for her little girl's 11-month photo shoot. So, she just sent me pictures just saying like "Hey, look how cute your product is on my baby." I asked her if I could use that for my marketing and she absolutely goes "Yeah, that would be great." And from there, I started to find that people are pretty excited to have their photos out and so I would just reach out individuals who had taken their pictures in the past, say "Hey, if I send you a few products, can you take pictures for me?" Absolutely, they would and it's been a very slow organic growth and brand repping has been something that I've been really grateful for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's really been organic authentic growth through social media.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yes. Along with that though, there was a lot of pacing myself, realizing that I can't do it all. I can't balance manufacturing on my own and marketing on my own and running my social media and taking care of my son and making sure that my family has the things that they need. I very quickly learned how important it was to recognize the things that I'm failing at. Maybe not failing, but that I just cannot fit in and get over the guilt of it, stop feeling bad that I can't do it all. There's a David Allen quote that says "You can do anything, but you can't do everything."

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from this story?

Kelsey Larsen:
If you think you're not ready but you have an idea, there is no harm in just doing it, just going for it. If you're not embarrassed by the first version of your product that you've launched, you've started to late. You'll find your success and you'll find what's working by putting it out in the marketplace, using your success as a test market and allowing yourself to organically grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's something that a lot of us ... It has to do with, frankly, guilt that we feel because we can't do everything we feel we should and we don't want to let people down.

Kelsey Larsen:
So, I have a vision board. I actually have a physical vision board kind of like we did in middle school.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Kelsey Larsen:
I put pictures of things that I'm really good at or I will identify things that I need someone else to do. For example, I do not take good photos. I just don't. And my product and my brand, I mean on Instagram, everything has to look great. So, I've been able to find and identify people who are great at it who I can pay to handle that. Even if it's not money that you've got, talking with other women, other mothers, other business owners, people are really willing to help out other individuals who are trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kelsey, before I let you go, tell us where people can find out more about you and the company.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, we do most of our sales on bapronbaby.com. We are on Amazon. We also ... As far as social media goes, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram. It's just BapronBaby.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're also in retailers, right?

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, local retailers throughout the country. We are in bundles with EzPz on Buy Buy Baby and in Nordstrom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Kelsey.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. It was great to be here. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from. Be smart about it. Don't stalk anyone, okay? But there is nothing wrong with a few polite emails to someone that you admire. Flattery is a great strategy. You would be surprised how well it works and how few people actually do it. Maybe you're going to get a mentor like Kelsey did and that, in here case, got her into a top retailer for her product. You would be amazed at the kinds of things people will do if you connect with them and you bond with them and make a relationship. People really do want to help other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. If you have a side hustle and are considering going all in as Kelsey did, you gotta do some test marketing first before you go all in as she did. Let's not forget. Kelsey was selling Etsy for a year before she even tried to go big. So while her growth plan, once she was doing it, was pretty bold, it did have a really strong foundation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, I want to thank you guys that have checked out my new podcast, Money in the Morning, with Joe Saul-Sehy. You may know him from his other podcast, Stacking Benjamins. So, Joe and I take a couple of news headlines and we share the lessons from it that we can all learn from and we come up with a big idea, a big takeaway that you can really take with you and hopefully make some positive changes in your financial life and your wellbeing and sometimes just overall happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's where it gets really interesting and really scary for me. We do it live. We do not cut anything out and we do it in front of you guys on camera on Facebook Live and if you want to be on the show, you can actually participate with your comments, which we integrate into the show. Go to Facebook.com/istackbenjamins. Set your alerts for when we go live. It's really easy to do that. We're working on a regular schedule but set the alerts for now. We would love to see you there. Check out the audio podcast as well, Money in the Morning. That is wherever you enjoy podcasts, just like this this.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Big thanks to Kelsey for sharing her story and for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

For all the talk about the dangers of credit cards, Inc’s Maria Aspan sees the benefits of them, especially when compared to debit cards. She shares a couple of personal stories of how credit cards protected her in ways debit cards could not. 

In Maria's money story you will learn:

• The importance of looking at your receipts especially when using a debit card

• Why credit cards are better than debit cards when it comes to fraud

• The reason that fraudulent credit card charges are easier to dispute and have the charge reversed

• Debit cards don't help you build credit

In Maria’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to pay for most things with a credit card

• The importance of getting alerts for certain transactions

• How using a credit card can not only be a great way to track spending, but it can also make doing taxes easier

In Maria's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How having a vacation/wedding fund can save you money in the long run

In My Take you will learn:

• Choose the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to your 401 (k)

• If you set up a separate account to save for events or vacations as Maria does, be sure to automate the deposits

Episode Links:

Maria's book Startup Money Made Easy

Money In The Morning podcast

Check out Maria's website -

www.mariaaspan.com

Follow Maria!

• Instagram - @mhaspan

• LinkedIn - @MariaAspan

• Twitter - @MariaAspan

• Facebook - @Maria.Aspan

For all the talk about the dangers of credit cards, Inc’s Maria Aspan sees the benefits of them, especially when compared to debit cards. She shares a couple of personal stories of how credit cards protected her in ways debit cards could not. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn 3 reasons why you will want to start using credit cards instead of debit cards. #MoneyTips #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Maria Aspan:
I was tired. Didn't really look at the receipt as I was paying and used my debit card to pay, and a few days later, I checked my bank account, and I noticed that the taxi cab had overcharged me. It was like a $15 fare, and there was something like $50 taken out of my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. We have all been there. We're tired. We just want to get home, and we don't want to look at the bill all that closely. Sometimes, we don't even look at the bill at all, and then we sign, and then of course, we don't even keep the receipt, but for our guest, that had consequences one time, and it was a big learning lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Special thank you to our new listeners. Thanks for checking out the show. I would love to hear how you heard about us, so please DM me, and let me know on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, on Twitter at BobbiRebell, or you can email at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to our guest. Maria Aspan is an award winning journalist and the editor at large of Inc magazine. Her new book is called Startup Money Made Easy, Answers to all your Questions about Starting, Running and Growing your business. Great material for business owners, but also a lot of eye-opening info for all of us just to apply to how we access money for anything that we need in our lives. Maria also shared a great money story that may surprise you with how it played out. Here is Maria Aspan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Maria Aspan, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Maria Aspan:
Thank you Bobbi. It's so much fun to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book. You are editor at large at Inc, and you have a new book, Startup Money Made Easy. Inc answers all your financial questions about starting, running and growing your business, and what I love about this is that it focuses on something a lot of people ignore in books for entrepreneurs. They focus on the building of the actual service or product, but a lot of the times it comes down to money.

Maria Aspan:
Yeah, I mean money is just such a part of every single decision you make throughout your business from startup, to growing, to selling it and retiring. So, we really tried to take just sort of an accessible and fun approach to something that can seem really daunting and somewhat like financial and high tech. We just tried to make it very easy, and if possible, fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's definitely exciting and fun when you're successful at raising money, but we're going to talk ... We're going to pivot a little bit and do your money story, which has to do with spending money and how you facilitate that. A lot of people are very wary of credit cards these days and for good reason. There are a lot of dangers of credit cards, but you actually had an experience earlier in your life where you learned the merits of credit cards. Tell us your funny story Maria.

Maria Aspan:
That's right. I am a financial reporter who is very pro credit card. To your point, debit cards, they allow you to control your spending and to budget more, but as I also discovered when I was a 20-something who had actually just started reporting on credit cards and debit cards, you don't have a lot of protections with debit cards when somebody uses your cards for fraud, and this was a kind of everyday story. I was coming home from a work event. I had taken a cab. It was the end of the night. I was tired. Didn't really look at the receipt as I was paying, and I used my debit card to pay. And a few days later, I checked my bank account, and I noticed that the taxi cab had overcharged me. It was like a $15 fair, and there was something like $50 taken out of my bank account from my debit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
They were hoping you wouldn't notice that, of course.

Maria Aspan:
Again, financial reporter. They picked the wrong person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think they probably picked many people, but they finally picked the wrong person and got caught.

Maria Aspan:
But what was really infuriating was that I complained to my bank. My bank was like, "Well, do you have the receipt? Because otherwise, we can't ... It's your word versus theirs, and we can't give you the money back." Didn't have the receipt. Lost that $50. I realized then that I had to start applying some of the lessons that I'd been learning about the credit card industry, that even though it's really easy to get in over your head with credit cards, they're also basically an interest free 30-day loan if you pay them off at the end of the month, and any money that gets taken out is the bank's money, not yours until you pay that bill.

Maria Aspan:
So, I actually had ... Recently, I had signed up for like a free trial month for a subscription service, one of those fashion subscription services, and I canceled the trial at the end of the month, and they didn't process it. A few days later on my credit card this time, a bill for $175 showed up. It was like, "Wait. No. I didn't. I did not spend $175 on that."

Maria Aspan:
But this time, I was able to complain to my credit card company and actually to the subscription service. They reversed the charge, and it was credited back to my account before I had to pay any bills, so I never had to put out that money even though they overcharged me. The bank had it covered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because credit cards work very differently from debit cards in these kinds of situations.

Maria Aspan:
Yes, and they basically are a loan, and the credit card company is the one who's fronting you the cash, and also the credit card company has more obligations to cover you in the case of fraud. Whereas with debit cards and bank accounts, there are many fewer protections for consumers in the case of fraud.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think that's something that's got lost in all the backlash about credit cards is that while debit cards do offer a lot of benefits, especially for young people that are first learning to manage their money, there are limitations. There's also a big danger to debit cards.

Maria Aspan:
There is, and there's also the fact that using a debit card doesn't necessarily help you build credit, which can be important when you're working up to getting a mortgage or car loan or in the case of a lot of the entrepreneurs that we talked to, a business loan. If you're using a credit card and paying it off every month and creating a record and a credit history, that can really help you down the road in getting a cheaper loan when you need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what is the lesson from this money story for our listeners?

Maria Aspan:
Apply for a credit card and use one responsibly. I will say that I try to put pretty much all of my spending on my credit cards, but I also set up a lot of alerts. I check my balances. I have alerts set up so that I get a text message if there is an online transaction or a foreign transaction or a transaction above a certain amount. So, I'm just alerted if I'm in New York, but suddenly my credit card is buying $500 worth of material in Russia, it's a sign that something is wrong.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's a big sign. Absolutely.

Maria Aspan:
And of course, I pay it off every single month. Then I would say that's probably the biggest lesson about using credit cards is don't use them to get into more debt than you can afford to repay regularly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely, and also they're a way to track your spending and know what is going on. You can quickly scan and know what you spent versus if you're using cash, then you have to actually write down what you're doing. The credit card takes care of that for you. So, I think that's a good benefit as well.

Maria Aspan:
Actually, since we're coming up on tax time, I should say that it really makes doing my taxes easier because at the end of every year I download my credit card's annual report, and I just have a list of all the different expenses that I made, which is something that paying in cash doesn't give you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they also categorize them, which is nice, which is something entrepreneurs can really use. Let's talk about your everyday money tip cause it's something that's for happy occasions but can be a challenge for many people.

Maria Aspan:
Yes, so my tip has to do with my friends getting married and all of the fun events that happen around other people's weddings, but also all of the expenses that are incurred. A few years ago my circle of friends started getting married. I started being asked to be in weddings, which of course involves bridesmaid dresses-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you always wear again.

Maria Aspan:
Which you always wear again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Always, always.

Maria Aspan:
Always so flattering and made out of such great material and totally worth the $300 or so.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lot actually. I haven't been a bridesmaid in a while, but 300 bucks is a lot of cash for an often one-time wear.

Maria Aspan:
It really is. And even if they're only one-time wear, they're made out of this cheap, gross fabric that's just not super comfortable even for that one night.

Bobbi Rebell:
[inaudible 00:09:11] your friendship.

Maria Aspan:
Definitely, and not to mention all of the wedding showers and the bachelorettes and the gifts, and these are all wonderful things that I'm happy to help my friends celebrate, but to your point, testing the friendship. They get to be very expensive, and there was one year when I had three or four such weddings sort of staring me down at the end of the summer, and I realized that this was going to be several thousand dollars that I didn't want to have to pay for all at once, so I set up a separate online savings account and just put $50 a week into it towards weddings. I think I started this in January. By the time September came along, that didn't necessarily cover all of the expenses, but it helped cover a lot of them, and I felt absolutely no guilt cleaning out that savings account to cover all of the bills from these different weddings.

Bobbi Rebell:
It cushioned the blow.

Maria Aspan:
It really did, and now, I've kept that savings account up. I've been a bridesmaid less, but now I've renamed it vacation weddings. So, I use it for like plane tickets or fancy meals out every once in a while and it's a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And guilt-free. Let's talk about your book, Startup Money Made Easy, which as I said at the beginning, I love because it focuses on the fact that a lot of entrepreneurs really spend the majority of their time dealing with getting cash to fund the business. Even though they may romanticize the idea that they're going to be actively running the day to day business, that often takes a back seat to the need for cash. And what I found interesting that you talk about here is the fact that many entrepreneurs are limited in their options and often end up getting money through means that are really not the best.

Maria Aspan:
Right. One of the things that we find when we talk to entrepreneurs at Inc is that even though venture capital gets all of the headlines and [inaudible 00:11:05] backed startups in Silicon Valley are the most prominent ones. Most of the entrepreneurs we talk to use their savings or ask friends and family members or use credit cards or tap their retirement accounts to get their businesses off the ground,

Bobbi Rebell:
Which we think of as almost, "Oh, you shouldn't do that." The truth is that is the reality and that many people do that. And we hear ... For every story that we hear of people that cashed out their 401k and took out a second mortgage on their home and then they made it big, there are a lot of people that do that and then suffer the consequences.

Maria Aspan:
We absolutely don't recommend cashing out your 401K, but it's very much often what happens. And the other thing is just we talked to many more entrepreneurs that just use regular loans versus [inaudible 00:11:49]. So whether it's credit cards to go back to the beginning of this, or applying a bank loan, which can be ... It can take so much time and be so tedious with paperwork, but it's like the best interest rate you're going to get anywhere versus a credit card or an online loan. Or asking friends and family for money is another way that a lot of people gather the money together to get their business off the ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, is that your advice for entrepreneurs? Where is the best way to fund your big idea?

Maria Aspan:
I would say my first piece of advice would be to figure out how much money you need, and it may not be very much. We've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs who start their businesses for less than $5,000. But figure out roughly how much money you need. Maybe write a business plan. It's not fun, but it'll help you get your plans in order, and then figure out how you can gather that money together. You might want to work on your business part time until you figure out cash flow and the business is making enough money to support you because that's the other thing that we find when we talked to a lot of the CEO's of the most successful private companies in America. We pull the Inc 5,000 CEOs every year. Only 28% of them said they started paying themselves a salary immediately upon starting their business. 31% waited for a year before they started paying themselves. So, if you can't afford to go a year or more without paying yourself a salary from your business, maybe don't make it a full time endeavor until you've got it all figured out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, lots of great advice and great advice in the book, Startup Money Made Easy. Tell us where people can find out more about you, the book and all that good stuff.

Maria Aspan:
Thanks so much Bobbi. You can find the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Audible. You can go to StartupMoneyMadeEasy.com to find a whole list of sellers, and you can find me on Twitter or at my website, MariaAspan.com, and my Twitter handle is the same.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, friends, let's do this. Financial Grownup Tip Number One. Choose the lesser of two evils. I agree with Maria, and absolutely I do not recommend cashing out a 401k, but if you are going to go for that cash in that retirement account, and I'm reminding you that is for your retirement, but if you're going forward anyway, look into borrowing from the 401k instead of just taking the money out. You can usually borrow up to $10,000 or 50% of the vested balance up to $50,000. At least with a loan you are paying interest to yourself. Just be aware that if you leave the company, you have to repay it, and the time you are paying back the loan, by the way, even if you're still at the company, many companies don't allow you to also contribute to that 401k. So then, that is a lost opportunity cost because those years when you're focused on paying back the loan, the loan money's not earning interest and growing for your retirement, and you're also not putting new money into the 401k for your retirement. So, try not to do it at all, but if you're going to it, the loan, depending on the terms that your company allows in line with the IRS rules, probably better than just taking the money out. But try to not do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two. If you set up a separate account to save for events like weddings or for vacations as Maria does, be sure to automate the deposits so it actually keeps happening.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, before we wrap up, I want to invite all of you to check out my new podcast with my friend, Joe [inaudible 00:15:19] of Stacking Benjamins. It is called Money in the Morning. We take two recent headlines, talk about what we can learn from them to improve our own personal finance situation, to improve our own lives, and to learn from it about investing, about saving, and all that good stuff. And we keep it light by taping it live on Facebook, complete with audience participation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, I hope some of you will join us. You can see a taping. Get the information by going to facebook.com/Istackbenjamins to check it out. We will leave a link in the show notes, and yes, it is taped live. So, what we do is we do not edit it at all. Whatever happens during the live taping, all my mistakes, are all out there. So, if you listen to the audio on whatever channel you listen to podcasts on, whatever app you listen to podcasts on, please be forgiving, laugh with us, learn from us, and most of all, just join us for the fun. We really would love to have you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, everyone can learn something from Maria Aspan's book, Startup Money Made Easy. So, please check out the book. Big thanks to Maria Aspan for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. 

In Jocelyn's money story you will learn:

• How her business, The Scholarship System, came about from her own experience

• How Dave Ramsey had influenced her decision to seek out scholarships

• How she won enough scholarships to pay for not only college but also living expenses

• What a scholarship scam is and how to know what to look for to avoid them

In Jocelyn’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why she feels like applying to more and more scholarships actually becomes easier

• How you can still continue to get scholarships even when you are out of high school and in college

In Jocelyn's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Not all scholarship opportunities are online and some are still on paper. Jocelyn shares where you can find these scholarships

In My Take you will learn:

• Other places you can find scholarships besides just educational institutions

• One benefit to look for in your job search that can help with student debt

Episode Links:

Jocelyn's book The Scholarship System

Jocelyn’s free webinar

Melanie Lockert's Financial Grownup Episode

Check out Jocelyn's website -

https://thescholarshipsystem.com/

Follow Jocelyn!

• LinkedIn - @TheScholarshipSystem

• Twitter - @ScholarshipSYS

• Facebook - @TheScholarshipSystem

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how to find and recognize good scholarships and how to apply for them. #MoneyTips #Scholarships

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jocelyn Pearson:
Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair, so these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. College, totally affordable, said no one ever. It's crazy expensive and every dollar that you can save is a really good thing. That much debt student debt on the other end. So glad I was able to get Jocelyn Paonita Pearson on the program. She is the master at finding money to pay for school and save precious time while doing it with a fantastic program called, The Scholarship System. Welcome, to everyone. If you're a new, we're so glad you discovered the show. We interview high achievers and get their money stories, and their lessons and even some every day money tips, all in about 15 minutes. If you have a little more time though, feel free to stack a few episodes together to make it work for you. With that, here is Jocelyn Paonita Pearson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jocelyn Paonita Pearson. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to learn more about The Scholarship System because who doesn't need more money for education for themselves, for their children, for the future and so on. Tell us, just briefly, what it is before we get to your money story.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Sure, so The Scholarship System is a six step process that I accidentally stumbled upon to pay for college without taking out student loans. Now, it started off as a simple book, but then we learned that our families wanted true live interaction and get some videos, worksheets, templates, you name it, and so now it is a full on course, blog and tons of resources for families to learn how to pay for college with scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're going to circle back to that, but first, I want to get to your money story, which is actually very appropriate because that's actually how you came up with this. It all started with you and your own scholarship needs. Do tell.

Jocelyn Pearson:
I would love to. So, it really was an accident. When I was in high school, my parents sat us down. I'm one of five kids, and they said, "We love you guys, but there is no way we could pay for college." Because at this rate it's half a million to a million dollars for this many kids, right? So, I was a pretty bullheaded teenager who just ... I did not want to take out student loan debt. Actually, I had watched Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University in one of my high school classes and made me terrified of any kind of debt, nevermind just student debt. So, I started off on a path to get scholarships for college and I just, for some reason, assumed my university would give me a ton of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
They did not though. They give you very little, I got to say. $2,000, right?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. And what was tuition? What did that represent versus tuition?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Tuition was I think around 10 grand a year, so I needed way more just for tuition, but the thing was my freshman year in college tuition was just half of my expenses. So, in the end, it cost me over 20 grand a year. So, yeah, they gave me, what? 10%?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that tuition is not everything. There's so much more that comes out of pocket. Not to mention the fact that ... sometimes your earnings are more limited than they might have been otherwise because you're studying, so you can't work as many hours as you might be able to if you weren't in school. There's that opportunity cost as well.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. And that's the beautiful thing about what I figured out is that I could use this money that I ended up getting without stealing too much from the end to pay for these other expenses as well, not just tuition. So, that was beautiful, but it was not a beautiful process at the beginning. It was so painful. I think a lot of your listeners could probably relate. I think most people either have the intentions of applying for scholarships or have given it a shot, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
And this was first happening in high school, I should say. You're in [crosstalk 00:04:24] figuring this out.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What number are you among the five children? Did you have older siblings that had done this already?

Jocelyn Pearson:
No, so I was the guinea pig.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. So, I started looking for scholarships and spent my junior year, this was before I knew that I was not getting much money, but I spent my junior years nonchalantly applying. But what I was doing was I was applying to these, what I later found out, were pretty much scams. So, I wasted an entire year applying to scholarships that weren't legitimate.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by scams? What would they be? They would say there was a scholarship and then they would just get your data? What was going on?

Jocelyn Pearson:
That's pretty much what it was. Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair. So, these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time, period.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are they legit? Like, if you win, it is at least legit. If you want to enter a lottery, it's not ... They're not taking from you. Your worst case scenario is you've wasted your time. I mean what is the danger of these scams? Because I don't know about this.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's a great question. So, my inbox that I used for that, now has over 20,000 unread emails, and I'm not exaggerating, literally over 20,000. I'm sure it's way more now. Because what they did was they were taking my information and selling it to affiliate marketers. So, your inbox will pretty much be destroyed and whatever information you've given could possibly be given out. So, it's not that they're necessarily really hurting you, but in this day and age, our data is really valuable. So, it was a way for them to target teenagers especially.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who don't know better. Who are just looking to pay for their college education.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Exactly. Which is the easiest, most vulnerable set of people to go after because everything is so scary and overwhelming with this process in itself. So, I got sucked into that. I did not know until finally the end of my junior year, I found a small little local scholarship that was 500 bucks, and I applied and wrote this essay. It was terrible. I had so many different drafts that I had to go back and forth and fix, but in the end, I won 500 bucks. Some people might be thinking, $500, you needed pretty much six figures to get a free ride. Why would you waste your time on $500? But that $500 scholarship meant so much more for me because what it did was it validated scholarships in general. It showed me, "Hey Jocelyn, there is money out there. There are scholarships out there. You just need to know what you're looking for, and apply to the right ones."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was different about that $500 one versus what you call the scams?

Jocelyn Pearson:
You asked the best questions. This is one of the golden nuggets that we really harp on in our course, and it's to know if a scholarship is legitimate or not. There's really a spectrum. So I mentioned the ones that are based on luck, you throw your name in a drawing, and you're entered to win $10,000. Those are not worth your time. Even though people are like, "Well, someone has to win them." I have been doing this for now nearly a decade, and I've never met anyone to win one, so it's not worth your time. But on the other end of the spectrum, we have scholarships that asked for criteria that we compete, that shows our qualifications for money.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Those are the ones that are worth our time. For example, I mentioned the one that I finally won $500 with required essays. That was something where, if I improve my essay, if I write a high quality essay, that increases my chances of winning. It's something within my control beyond just luck. So, in that way, it has a higher chance of being legitimate. The more it's based on my true credentials, and my competitiveness versus luck.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you eventually raised I think $126,000 to fund your education and the ancillary costs of that education, correct?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. So, in the end I got to six figures, and I was, not only able to graduate completely debt free, but I actually got an overage check every school year, every semester to pay for any external expenses that I had that were beyond my bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, What is the lesson for our listeners here that people don't know that's not obvious? Because there's a lot to this. It's not just write an essay. There's a strategy here.

Jocelyn Pearson:
When I got my six figures in scholarships, it was not all in my senior year. It was gradual. Every single year I was able to apply for more and more money and it got easier and easier, I promise. That might sound like a lot of work, but once you get some winning ups, you just reuse them. So, that's actually a golden nugget as well. But every single year can get more money. A lot of people think, oh, once I finished high school, I'm out of luck. There aren't any more opportunities for me to change my status when it comes to loans or scholarships. That's not true.

Jocelyn Pearson:
And the second one that I want to share is to find these scholarships, and we will share a free webinar, where I go in more depth and have more time about this, but we teach how to use Google the right way to find scholarships. I think one of the biggest challenges with the scholarship process is it's so overwhelming for students, where they go to Google, they look up scholarships, and they find a bunch of junk that doesn't even pertain to them. One of the smallest low hanging fruit tactics that we can teach that someone can implement in two seconds is to go to Google and Google their community or their zip code or their city name plus the word "community foundation." And oftentimes, community foundations have half a million, a million plus dollars to give out in scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right there, that one search can open the doors to, not just dozens of scholarships, but dozens have scholarships specifically for students in their area, which means it's less competitive.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip, which is very retro. It has to do with paper. Give it up Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. This is so funny. Back in the day, if I will, when I was doing this, paper applications were more common, but believe it or not, they still are around. I know that's hard to believe, but there are organizations like the Elks Club or the Rotary Club, where some of them just aren't tech savvy just yet. And so, what they're doing is they're still sending letters to our guidance counselors saying, "Hey, we have this money, can you please share it with students?" A lot of schools are now doing great where they put that inside a student portal or put it on some sort of page for students, but there are still some that just stash that away inside a filing cabinet. I highly recommend students, go into the Guidance Office at their high school and also at their colleges. Again, remember this is not over in high school.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of scholarships don't even start or not available to freshmen. Sometimes they start at older grades.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right. And there's a reason for that. One of the reasons is because once you get to college, you have such a higher chance of graduating, so people want to make sure they're giving the money to the highest chance of someone that would do something with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, I never knew that.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's [crosstalk 00:11:23].

Bobbi Rebell:
I never thought of it that way. That is so interesting. But a lot of this that you talk about in the scholarship system is that it's about effort, but it's also about knowing which scholarships are less competitive because some scholarships don't have that many people applying. We're talking about these paper applications where you have to physically go into the office IRL and asked for them. That gives you a big leg up.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely, Bobbi. That's the one thing is ... a lot of students, they go after the Dr Pepper Scholarship or the Coca Cola scholarship, where it's a free ride in one shot, but the problem is everyone is going after that one. And even I, I applied for the KFC one, I didn't get it, but that was a really competitive one. And then when I realized, you know what? That $500 one, $1,000 one, $1,200 one, they still add up pretty quickly and yet, I'm competing against ... actually, just a quick story. Once, ISM had an application and they had two awards that they were going to give out. And this was a local based one. In the end, they only received four scholarship applications, so they doubled the award and gave all four of us an award. So, it was 100% success rate because it was one of the lucky ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, isn't it incredible?

Bobbi Rebell:
You have to just try. Okay, before we wrap up, I want to hear what is going on with the scholarship system. You have a webinar, first of all, so tell us about that and how else people can learn more about you and all your social channels.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. I appreciate that. So, we have a free webinar that we hold. It's around an hour to an hour and 15 minutes. I go in-depth about some very large myths, which we did burst a few here, but I go in more depth on those in the Webinar, as well as a very specific places you can look, including more detail on how to use our Google method. So, if you're interested in joining our webinar and registering, it's completely free. You can go to, we created a unique link just for Bobbi's audience. So, you go to the scholarshipsystem.com/grownup. This is for parents and students. Actually, if you can attend together, that's even better.

Jocelyn Pearson:
So, that's the best place to get ... just hit the ground running when it comes to finding these scholarships we're talking about. The low hanging fruit, the ones that have a greater chance of winning and get started. Then, if you want any additional information, I love our Facebook page. We share scholarships on there as well as tons of helpful articles, our own and others. So, you can just go to Facebook and search "The Scholarship System." And then our website, we have a weekly blog that we give and these are massive, actionable in-depth blog posts and you can just go to the scholarshipsystem.com for those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This is all so important. And you're really creating the shortcuts because we're all so busy, so this is kind of a central place for everyone to go. So, thank you, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Here is my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, scholarships are not limited to educational institutions. Many professional conferences have them. In fact, usually the information on how to apply is right on the website, but you can also just write to the people running the conference and find out. For example, one of my favorite events, The Lola Retreat, run by Melanie Lockert, who has been on this podcast, we'll link to her episode, offer scholarships, including one financed by this podcast. Another conference that I attend that offer scholarships is Finncon. It is run by Philip Taylor, Aka PT Money, also has been on this conference, and they offer scholarships for content creators that are looking into the industry or growing their business and aren't really financially able to attend. Totally worth applying to all these kind of conferences and seeing if there are scholarship money available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do graduate with debt, student debt I should say, consider looking for jobs that have programs to help pay down those loans or that will pay for graduate school so you don't take on more debt. It is becoming more common in this tight job market. Thank you, to everyone, for being here with us. Please share with friends and be in touch with your tips on paying for education, both school and professional developments. On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1 and Twitter, @bobbirebell and you can always email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And by the way, I have a new podcast, in addition to this one. Financial Grownup is not going anywhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is with my friend Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins' fame. It is called, Money in the Morning. We talk about headlines and break down what matters to you, and we tape it live on Facebook. We will leave links to where you can join us in the show notes. Big thanks to Jocelyn Paonita Pearson for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Steph Paternot make a virtual fortune when the internet startup he co-founded in college, TheGlobe.com set records on its first trading day. But he and his company paid the price when his personal brand image as a brash young hard- partying entrepreneur pulled attention away from the business fundamentals. 

In Stephan's money story you will learn:

• Why it may not be a good idea to dance on tables during an interview

• Sometimes a lot of publicity isn't always the best publicity

• The documentary that CNN did on him that he and his company ended up paying the price for

In Stephan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to be careful not to overdramatize your story

• The importance of staying focused on your business

In Stephan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why you don't want to fall into the FOMO mentally when it comes to investing

In My Take you will learn:

• The reason that the expression "Dance like no one is watching" doesn't really work in this day and age

• Why it's so important to get back up after you fail

Check out Stephan's website -

• Slated

Follow Stephan!

• Instagram @stephanpaternot

• LinkedIn @stephanpaternot

• Twitter @stephanpaternot

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Steph Paternot:
The cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs. We maybe shouldn't trust them. You know, maybe they're too crazy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, how much thought do you give to your personal brand? To the images that you post on social media, or that are posted about you, with you in them, that you are tagged in? Do you think it impacts your career, or your future career, your business if you're an entrepreneur, your life? What would it have been like if social media weren't even around yet, and yet you were the one creating social media? It's very meta, but so is this whole interview, because I actually interviewed our guest who was the CEO of a company called theGlobe.com, the co-founder Steph Paternot back in the dotcom boom and bust.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I remember all the buzz that he got, it wasn't always focused on his company, a lot of it was on his personal life, on his clubbing, and even what he wore when he was out of the clubs. Kind of like many young adults who are in their 20s, that was a thing that people were doing at the time, he was quite normal, except most of those other 20 somethings, I'd say pretty much all of those other 20 somethings, were not worth close to $100 million on paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. If you are new, so glad you are joining us. We talk to high achievers here on the Financial Grownup podcast, they share unique money stories, and how we can learn from them, and also some every day money tips. Let's get to Steph Paternot, and the time that he and his co-founder, Todd Krizelman, were literally in college, and it should be noted that they did not drop out by the way, while they were building their company, theGlobe.com. Now they stayed in college specifically because it wasn't so clear that this internet was gonna be a thing, Steph actually said that. He really wasn't sure that the internet would be a thing that would actually be a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, stay to the end to hear more about what Steph is up to now, he is disrupting a new industry, and I think you're gonna be very interested. Here is Steph Paternot. Hey Steph Paternot, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Steph Paternot:
Good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading the re-released, new and improved, version of your book, A Very Public Offering: The Story of Theglobe.com and the First Internet Revolution, it was a total page turner, and I'm glad it got re-released, in large part because of a new series that features you, and someone playing the part of you which we'll talk about, it's a little bit weird, National Geographic series, Valley of the Boom, which I am truly enjoying. So welcome.

Steph Paternot:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, what was it like when you found out that they were casting someone to play you? Is that weird?

Steph Paternot:
Oh it was weird. I was shocked, because they had already engaged with me to come and participate in their documentary interview, and I'd already put in hours of being interviewed. In my mind it was nothing more than an expanded sort of news segment, or a documentary about the past. Since my current company, Slated, is in the film industry, I have a lot of film industry contacts, and the last thing I expected was to hear from film industry friends who were like, "Hey Steph, I just got this casting notice," I have friends who are casting directors and actors. Both parties were getting in touch with me saying, "Oh yeah so they're looking for a young, charismatic, actor to play a Steph Paternot, and another to play Mark Andreason, and a Todd Krizelman." And that's when I realized, "Oh my god I had just been pulled into something that I had no idea about."

Bobbi Rebell:
I gotta tell you Steph, your story doesn't need a whole lot of embellishment. And I'm excited about the money story that you're gonna share, because it has to do with personal branding, and the impact that can have on your financial success, or failure, of your company. And this all happened before social media was a thing. I mean you guys were inventing social media, and yet, this is kinda meta stuff I think. Tell us your money story.

Steph Paternot:
CNN decided to do a documentary on us, where they wanted to follow us, and see what the life was of a public company, dotcom CEO who's 24. And they followed Todd out to the Hamptons, where he had organized an impromptu badminton game, and a barbecue, and it was all very quaint. And then I decided, well I'll go show them what I've been doing when I need to let off steam," and that is to go clubbing, and why don't I kick it up a notch, and for once I'll wear these crazy vinyl black pants I bought, that'll make the story sexier.

Steph Paternot:
They also recorded me at my home, and one of the producers when I was off camera had asked me like, "Oh my gosh, so are you ready to live it up Steph now? I mean now that you're a billionaire are you ready to live it up?" And being that I'd grown up in England and I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, I just played along and said, "Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm ready to live a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle. That's the idea right?" And the filmed me going out to a nightclub and dancing on the tables. And I made sure really sort of to give them exactly the visual story I knew that would play well, and would be what their audience wants to believe about these dotcom days, and their juxtaposition of me dancing on the tables with this audio clip of me talking about a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle, they played that on CNN.

Steph Paternot:
Then they put that all summer long, it kept playing over and over as the hot dotcom-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my.

Steph Paternot:
I got so much [inaudible 00:00:00] from so many people, including my partner saying, "Why would you say that? Why would you do that." I was like, "Look this is all part of building the brand of the company, and living the life that they want to imagine we live." And by the way, not for nothing, but since this has been airing we've had tens of thousands more users sign up to our site. But the cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we've got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs, we maybe shouldn't trust them." People love to look for reasons when something isn't going well, of why it's not going well. And if you give the media, or if you give an audience one reason to dislike you, or to paint you with to say why everything's going badly, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Steph what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Steph Paternot:
Be careful of taking your story, or over selling, or over dramatizing, or doing something like what I did, where you gave them a cool visual and a ridiculous piece of audio. And you're giving them something they can hit you on the head with later.

Bobbi Rebell:
And do you feel it hurt your finances? Did it hurt your ability to go back for more money, and other things? Did it hurt the image? It seems like it helped to drive users to your website, but there's two sides of the business that were going on.

Steph Paternot:
Yeah, so the truth is, is that if your business fails it's not because you once wore plastic pants on a T.V. show. If your business fails, that's what people will say, because it's just easy to paint people with ... the simplest character assassination is what people like to use. But the truth is, is if your business is failing, it's usually because either your customers aren't satisfied by the product, or your advertisers are fleeing, or there's not enough revenue in the market to cover the costs of your business and your infrastructure. So the reasons theGlobe failed, ultimately, have very little to do with one particular interview segment. That just simply gave people ammunition to become haters, and troll us.

Steph Paternot:
There's so many other factors that can bring down your business. I think the takeaway her is, stay focused on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you wanted to talk about an acronym that I don't know even existed back in the day, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Steph Paternot:
FOMO, I think the term got coined in the late 90s, the fear of missing out, meant that you're operating often from a place of fear. If you're seeing everyone get rich quick because they're investing in dotcoms, well then you're gonna be apt to wanna quickly invest in anything with a dotcom as well, and you're gonna throw your money at a bunch of dotcom stuff. And for a while it's probably gonna grow, and you're gonna feel okay, until you realize that you had no clue what you were investing in. And when the market craps out, you go down with it. So you don't wanna invest ever because you're seeing everyone else getting rich from a particular area.

Steph Paternot:
By the way, that just happened in 2017 with the crypto space, right. Everyone was getting into ICOs, everyone was operating from a place of fear, if you don't invest you're gonna be poor, you gotta invest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your latest venture, Slated, tell us more about that and the other projects that you have on deck.

Steph Paternot:
I decided every movie getting made shouldn't be a miracle. There should be much more a method to the madness of filmmaking. And there's probably a much more intelligent way that people in this industry should be able to find great projects, assemble teams, find financing, and execute on their vision. And I saw this occurring in the tech space, with marketplaces like AngelList, which were making it way easier for anyone to set up a startup, find talent, find financing, discover what the growth metrics were that were important, and really grow a successful business.

Steph Paternot:
And so we took the model of AngelList, we reinvented it for the film industry, and now Slated is the leading on-line film finance marketplace. Half of all the movies that have been nominated for Academy awards the last few years are made by Slated producers, directors, writers. And we're just increasingly getting those successful filmmakers to put their next films on Slated, and getting those financed. So it took me a long time to put my CEO hat back on, and to find my passions that married film, technology, the reinvention of money on-line, and marry those all together, and really take a shot again at building a company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well congratulations on your success throughout the decades, because you really have had such an incredible run, and you're still just beginning with new projects. Where can people find out more?

Steph Paternot:
They can find me on Twitter, @stephanpaternot, or in Instagram @stephanpaternot, or on Facebook as Stephan Paternot.

Bobbi Rebell:
If only it was at theGlobe.com, oh what could have been Steph.

Steph Paternot:
What could've been, yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But thank you so much, this was great.

Steph Paternot:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
What an amazing story. Financial Grownup tip number one, you know that expression, "Dance like no one is watching." So freeing, so empowering, so not realistic in this day and age, because you know everyone's watching. Unfortunately you have to live like someone is watching. Like it or not, the lines are blurring between our work and personal, and something you think you do only amongst friends could be public faster than you can click post. Act appropriate. If you have a finsta, that's a fake Instagram, I get it. Just remember, it's still out there, and you just never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you fail, get up. Steph was down, ooh $100 million, yes it was all on paper, but it sure felt real to him. He has done so much since those days, and because he kept strong relationships with the investors that believed in him, he was able to start new businesses, new investments, and have new success. Keep an eye on Steph, and his film finance business Slated, I expect to continue to see big things, lots of disruption happening in that industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for all of your support, of not just Financial Grownup, but my new podcast, Money in the Morning with Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins fame. Truly appreciate if you tell your friends, and subscribe to both. And big thanks to Steph Paternot for helping us all get one step close to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When payroll is coming directly out of your bank account, every penny is precious. For entrepreneur Vic Drabicky that laser focus on costs, held back growth for January Digital, until he started to see the real cost of his fiscal frugality. 

In Vic's money story you will learn:

• Why Vic's conservative approach lead him to losing a big client

• What he did to turn things around

• Why it's so important to invest in the right leadership

In Vic’s money lesson you will learn:

• "Pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones"

• Why it's important, when looking at investments, to see which ones yield the highest return

In Vic's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What the "plan your work, work your plan" strategy is

In My Take you will learn:

• Doing one thing at a time can help to prevent from becoming overwhelmed

• Sometimes there is no perfect answer but be prepared to pivot when your views change

Check out Vic's website

January Digital

Follow Vic!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Vic Drabicky:
... a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy January, everyone. In this case, January Digital. The marketing agency was named in honor of the month that celebrates new beginnings for so many of us, including its founder, Vic Drabicky. Love his story, and you will too. Such inspiration for the new year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. New listeners, so glad you're here. Welcome back to our regulars. Episodes are short so you can stack them back to back for however much time you have to spend with us. And if you like what we're doing, tell a friend and DM us your feedback. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, and you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Get ready to say hello to our guest, Vic Drabicky. He and his company, January Digital, have worked with amazing brands. Think Fenty by Rihanna, Diane von Furstenberg, Oscar de la Renta, Vineyard Vines, and Kendra Scott. But January Digital's first year was rocky because they didn't invest enough in themselves. Big lessons here, and Vic's tip at the end about how companies and people can get attention on social media without hiring a big company like January Digital is pure gold.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listen to this man. Here is January Digital's Vic Drabicky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Vic Drabicky. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Vic Drabicky:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your digital marketing company, January Digital. By the way this is airing of course in January, so it's perfect timing. Tell us quickly about the name.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. So we are a full frontal digital agency. What that means is brands, primarily luxury brands and beauty brands, come to us and say, "Look I've got this money and I need to advertise my brand digitally. I don't know how to do it. Can you do it for me?" And that's everything from working with folks like Vogue and influencers all the way down to the tactical paid search and SEO and sort of the nerdy parts of digital marketing as well. So kind of top to bottom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where did the name January Digital come from? I mean, digital makes sense. But why January?

Vic Drabicky:
January 1st, if you're poor you're going to be rich. If you're fat your going to be thin. You can do absolutely anything in January. So that theme of renewal and rebirth was really important for me, and important for us in the way that we approach things for our company. It's different than the traditional way too, so that's how it kind of fits together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also a perfect transition to your money story that you brought, because it has to do with the birth of the company. Which of course you were ambitious, but you were also very conservative to the point where it came to bite you. Tell us your money story, Vic.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody that knows me knows I tend to be fiscally conservative. I mean, some would say cheap. I think very calculated. But what happened is we were very lucky early on and our company grew really fast. We went from something like nine people to 32 or 33 over the course of just a couple months. Which was phenomenal and great, but I still had the mindset of, okay, let me make sure that I conserve the profit that we have. Because I started the company with no venture capital, not even a loan. So it was right out of my bank account, which was relatively small.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were paying these people, I mean, you had to hit payroll every month on your bank account.

Vic Drabicky:
Exactly right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'd be pretty careful with that money then.

Vic Drabicky:
Well, right, and that's what you would think, right? This is my money. If I pay these people too much or hire too much, I don't get paid. And then, well, you know, that affects my family and my rent and my kids and all of those sorts of things. And so I took this really conservative approach, even when we were growing really quickly. And what that led me to was hiring folks who tended to be probably a little bit younger and a little bit cheaper. And I was probably a little bit arrogant, thinking, you know what, I've done enough of this; I can figure it out. I can teach them all how to do this and I can be a great leader.

Vic Drabicky:
But when ended up happening in the end is I underinvested in leadership. And because of that, the people that were on my staff all of a sudden, the 30-something people were looking towards me and some of them weren't that happy. And some of them weren't great hires. And that led to our work product being a little meh at times. And then clients felt that. And the year following that extensive growth is where we actually saw the hardest quarter ever, where we had clients and people leave at a rate that we've never seen ever in the history of our company.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you actually lost a big client. What was that discussion like when they pulled the plug?

Vic Drabicky:
Well, a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? And by that time I was lucky enough to have added a couple people to my executive team around me who were accepting of my panic. But also did a great job of sitting down and going, okay, listen, we have been conservative for this long so we have a little bit to fall back on. And I have a great board member from the financial field who helped make sure we secured rainy day funding and things like that just in case something happened.

Vic Drabicky:
So by that point we were okay and we could get through. I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that. But with the help of those guys, we were able to get through it. We were able to stop and say, okay, clearly identify what the problem was: not enough leadership, not enough skill. Let's put together a plan and put together a calculated risk on where we're going to invest against those. And we know that if we're right, that this sort of downturn ... we're only going to really feel the hurt from this for the next quarter or quarter and a half. So if we have this right, then this is a short-term thing when you compare it to the life of a company.

Vic Drabicky:
So for us, we were able to make those decisions. We were able to hold on and stick together. And I'll say that since then, our company has grown at a rate much faster than it originally had, and we've invested in right leadership. And so now our retention rates both for employees and clients are at all-time highs. Our profit margin has steadily increased quarter over quarter over quarter for a year and a half straight. So that investment that we ended up making at that time in leadership, which corrected our original mistake, has really paid off for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your takeaway that you would offer to the listeners so that they could apply this to their businesses, but also to their lives when it comes to investing? Because we do want to be careful with our money.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. So for me it's ... the saying that we've coined is, pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones. The idea is is that a lot of people look at finances and expenses on a sheet and say: where can I make sure my costs stay in line? But what people rarely do is look at it and go: what investment yields me the highest return?

Vic Drabicky:
And the reason I think most people do that is the first one is easy. You put it on a spreadsheet and you go, oh, my people cost me $10, my office costs me 2 ... unless you're in New York then it costs 8 ... and people look at this and that's a very easy thing to move around. But understanding what the profit you're going to get from that investment is much harder and much more nebulous.

Vic Drabicky:
So instead, if you're able to take that spreadsheet and still have it ... add an extra column in the end that goes, okay if I spend these $10 on these people, I'm going to make 20. If I spend this $8 on technology, I'm going to make 22. Okay, that might actually be the better one. So as long as you have that end goal next to it, it allows you to ensure you're pinching the right pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
But if you're being honest with yourself, Vic, looking back, do you think that as a startup entrepreneur, self-funding, which is huge, could you have, even now looking back, really stomached hiring expensive people? It's hard to really do, right?

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. It's extremely hard to do. You know, I think one of the things that's great about not having funding is you don't owe anybody any growth. And so when you don't owe anybody growth, you don't have to take on a deal that maybe your people don't like or maybe you don't like just to hit your growth goals. You can take on things that are really true to the mission of what you want, or what you want to accomplish. And so if that mission of what you want to accomplish is a really good one, then not having that funding allows you to stay true to that and you'll still eventually succeed.

Vic Drabicky:
So there's that side. But on the other side of it, again, having the risk of my bank account being zero if things went bad is an awfully hefty risk. So I still haven't figured out exactly if I would have changed it or not, but I'm very happy to be where we are now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fair enough. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. Because this is something that is relatable to so many people but yet we don't do. Go for it.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. Plan your work, work your plan. Finances more than almost any other part of your business, I think, is something that you have to have a plan around. You absolutely have to sit down, write out what you want to accomplish, write out what it takes, write out what the costs are, all the cost centers, all of those sorts of things. You have to do that. Once you have that plan down, then you work against that.

Vic Drabicky:
Inevitably, what you'll find out is that your plan on day one is slightly outdated on day two, and is really outdated by day 365. But what happens is if you have that plan and you're constantly working against it and you tweak, versus having no plan and trying to resolve everything as it comes out, you're going to be significantly more successful. This works both at home and in the office.

Vic Drabicky:
In the office we have something that we run. We always have our plan for the entire year, then we have our forecast which shows what our trend is, and we have our actuals. And we always keep the plan steady; we never touch it. January 1st it's set in stone. We don't touch it. The forecast we adjust, and obviously the actuals we put in each month.

Vic Drabicky:
But I actually do the same thing at home. I'm very lucky to have married a very talented woman who owns an interior design firm. The great thing about that is she's extremely talented; the bad thing about that means our house is under construction every day for the entire year. It's sort of running on the fly, but what we do is at the beginning of the year we sit down and go, here are all the projects we want to get done for this year. Let's write them down then we can start prioritizing against them, and then we can start figuring out which ones we actually can accomplish, which ones we can't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit more about January Digital and the work that you do there. Explain to me, what is the challenge? Because it's kind of a moving target, digital marketing. And you work with some brands that have ... some are newer brands, some are older brands. Like you work with David's Bridal; that's got to be challenging. You work with Kendra Scott, one of my favorite jewelry lines. Tell me more.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, so I mean, it definitely is. Our primary focus is on retail, luxury, and beauty. So most of our clients fit within that. Not all of them. David's Bridal being a good example of one that, you know, from the outside you might look at it and go, okay, that's an interesting brand but it doesn't sound near as sexy as working with Tory Burch or J.Crew or-

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. So how do you do that? Right.

Vic Drabicky:
What I think is great about what we've been able to do is that we are very good at making sure what we want to accomplish with our clients aligns very well with what they want us to accomplish for them. That sounds very simplistic, but I think a lot of times clients look at agencies and think of them as this mysterious entity over there that they're going to kick work to, and every year they're just going to [inaudible 00:11:16] to make sure that their fees go down. And we're very clear going in to people saying, no, that's not what we want. And we as an agency are going to invest in you. We're going to put people in your offices to make sure we know you and your brand and everything you want to accomplish.

Vic Drabicky:
And what that does is that really aligns both of us not as two separate entities but as one team trying to accomplish things. And whenever you have that as your base, it doesn't matter if you're selling dresses or jewelry. When you have that at your core, your opportunity to succeed is significantly higher. And that's what we've seen. And that's why our client retention rate is north of 90 percent versus the industry average, which is below 70 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you were starting out as an entrepreneur in general, not someone that is a digital marketing agency, but if you're just trying to get attention online, get your brand noticed, do you have any tips for people that aren't at the level where they can hire an agency?

Vic Drabicky:
I still think one of the more underused techniques is to use LinkedIn to advertise your business. You can go in and very quickly advertise against prospects that you want to talk to. You can very quickly advertise against audiences, those sorts of things. And if you have truly valuable content that you want to share, it's a really cheap, easy way to go in and start being very ... test the waters to see how your message is resonating.

Vic Drabicky:
For those that are not in a service industry but maybe you're selling a product, maybe you're a jeweler, or whatever it might be. What I always tell people is start small and then iterate really quickly. There are sort of the basics of digital marketing that always start with Google search, then you can move on to Facebook. But just do one piece at a time.

Vic Drabicky:
If you can do one piece at a time and figure out how to do it well, what happens is it becomes very predictable. And so now all of a sudden every morning when you wake up, you know Google's going to make you $10 and Facebook is going to make you 2. Okay so if your goal for the day was only to make $15, you don't have to worry about those 12. You only have to worry about selling the last 3. And that simplifies [inaudible 00:13:07] problems down and allows you to focus on the areas that you need to solve versus the ones that are consistent and will deliver every day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such valuable advice. Thank you so much. Okay, now that you have a website, tell us where we can go and where we can follow January Digital and you on social.

Vic Drabicky:
Sure. januarydigital.com is the website. Please don't judge us too much; while we think it looks great, we still have a lot of work to do. And then, quite honestly, we do a ton on LinkedIn. I try to post relatively regularly on LinkedIn. Our company does as well. We include content that everyone from our newest employees who are just out of school all the way up to people who have been here six, seven years, we allow them to post content quite a bit that we find valuable. And we share it all pretty openly too, so ... Those are the areas that I think we're probably most active. Obviously we're still on Facebook and things like that too. But that's probably the best area to get to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Vic. This was great.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. I appreciate you having me. And congratulations on all your success as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one. Focus. I get overwhelmed by all the things I want to learn, and Vic makes a great point about learning about new things but maybe focus on one thing at a time. I'm going to take that advice myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. There is no right answer when you're starting a new venture, personal or business. So be prepared to pivot. Vic knows, looking back, that he aimed too low in his hiring. But also admits that his reason for doing so made sense at the time. And he still sees why they made sense, even in retrospect. So in life and in business, part of being a financial grownup is accepting that sometimes there is no perfect answer. Let's say Vic had stretched and had hired more expensive and more experienced people from the get-go; that also had risks. He did what he thought was best at the time and then when it wasn't, he course-corrected.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thanks everyone for joining us. If you like the podcast and enjoy it, don't forget to subscribe. And we really appreciate ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or anywhere. All feedback is good. And big thanks to January Digital's Vic Drabicky for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
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Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Boreland Group Founder and CEO Jennefer Witter learned early on that the best way to get clients was to offer extreme value. But to stay in business, and continue to serve the clients, the author of the Little Book of Big PR also learned when to put the brakes on the discounts. 

In Jennefer’s money story you will learn:

-How to utilize a current network to create a new one

-Why Jennefer values transparency with her clients and how it helped her build a business

-Ways to find out what to charge new clients

In Jennefer’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to create meaningful relationships with new clients

-Three ways to look at the return on investment

-Why Jennefer always sets a definite stop date with her clients

In Jennefer's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one question Jennefer asks that saves her small business big bucks

-Why it's good to be aggressive in business negotiations

In My Take you will learn:

-Take an angle that makes you eligible for discounts

-Why sometimes working for free has the biggest pay off

Bobbi and Jennefer also talk about:

-Jennefer mentioned that she gets a small business discount for ProfNet, which helps her public relations company get leads

EPISODE LINKS:

Jennefer's book is available online here

Check out The Boreland Group's website here

Follow Jennefer! 

Twitter: @JenneferTBG

Linked In: @Jennefer Witter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jennefer W.:
It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000, but what I got back through that $10,000, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to, Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story, from a financial grown-up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown-up friends. Every business, or pretty much every business, I would think, starts as a start-up, and every business has to get that very first sale, and that very first client, and to make it happen, in most cases, that first client, that first sale, the business owner has to be willing to lose money on the bet, that they will win over that first client, and build from there, but many businesses make a mistake, in that, they don't really set the expectations right, and then when they do have to raise the price, so that they can actually make money, they get backlash, because the client's expectations were not aligned with the realities of the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our guest, public relations whiz, Jennefer Witter, who is the head of, The Boreland Group, and by the way, literally, wrote the book on PR. It's called, The Little Book of Big PR, was careful in her approach at that delicate start-up stage, and it has served her well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners, that we are very excited about. The show's are short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but of course, you can binge, stack a few together. Maybe if you're commuting, have a little more time to listen. Consider it flextime for podcasts, and with that, let's get to our amazing guest. Here is Jennefer Witter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jennefer Witter. You are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennefer W.:
I am so thrilled to be on, Bobbi. How are you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to finally snag you. You are one busy lady. You are, the CEO and Founder of the boutique, Boreland Group, and you're also the author of a book that I loved reading, 'cause I'm kind of on the other side of it. It's The Little Book of Big PR, which is awesome, and it really is a little book.

Jennefer W.:
It's a tiny little book. It's a paperback, softcover. You can also get it as an e-book, and I wanted it to be little, because you know what it's like as an entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Jennefer W.:
You have some things on your desk. You have to do this. You have to do that. You don't want to be reading, War and Peace.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Jennefer W.:
So, with the full book of Big PR, the full title is, The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed, is you can read a chapter here, a chapter there, or you can read it all at once, and it will not take you more than a couple of hours to read it, and you walk away with information that you can readily use in your business practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and you are an entrepreneur. Your business has grown, but when it first started, you had to make some difficult choices, and we always say, "Don't undervalue yourself. Don't give away services for free, but it's kind of complicated." Tell us your mini story.

Jennefer W.:
Well, here's the thing. When I first started The Boreland Group, it was 15 years ago. I really didn't think about becoming an entrepreneur. So, when I decided to do it, it was just like, "You know what? I don't have clients. I don't have any income coming in."

Jennefer W.:
So, I reached out to everybody that I knew, and I said, "Do you know of somebody, who is looking for a boutique public relations firm?" And I got one response back, after sending out like 200 emails, and it was a friend of mine, and he said, "I have a friend, who's sister-in-law is looking for a publicist." And when I met with her, she did not want to pay what I was charging at that time, and so, what I decided to do was invest, because I only was going to have one client, and I knew that once I got that one client, once I got that chance, I would have those doors open.

Jennefer W.:
So, what I did was, she paid me [crosstalk 00:04:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Let me just stop you there. So, you say what you were charging, but the truth is, you were charging no one because you had no clients.

Jennefer W.:
No. No clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was your first client. Right. So, you had an idea of what you wanted to charge, but you didn't have a rate that you were getting. So, you needed to start building your client roster.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and so what I did with this one client was, and I'll give everything as transparent. I charged her $1,800.00 a month. One thousand, eight hundred dollars, and then, I invested another $1,800.00 into her. So, it normally would have been $3,600.00, but I was only getting back $1,800.00.

Jennefer W.:
Now, you may say, "You're giving away your services." And I absolutely was, but I knew that once people saw what I was doing, getting her into the media, getting her speaking opportunities, that I would be able to build upon this client that I had, into a client portfolio, and after [crosstalk 00:05:16].

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this client, Jennifer, let me ask you, was she aware? Did she really only have budget for $1,800.00, and was she aware that she was getting, quote, double the value of what you felt you should be paid?

Jennefer W.:
Oh, she was absolutely aware, and what I told her was, for this first six months, I would charge her $1,800.00, and at the end of the six months, it would go up to the $3,600.00. So, she was fully aware, and I wrote a program, and I said, "This is what you're going to get overall." And I said, "This part you're going to be paying for. This part is what I'm investing in." And I put together a plan, that was very tight, because you have to be careful about such things. You don't want to say, "I'm going to give you $1,800.00." And you wind up giving somebody $5,000.00. You definitely need to have parameters, that you don't sink yourself before you swim, and once I started to do that, and then I started leveraging, and I'd say, "I have this client. This is what we're doing."

Jennefer W.:
When I was meeting with the media, some of the media saw what I was doing, and they sent some direct clients over to her, and at the end of the six months, I did a new program for her at the full price, $3,600.00, and she knew that it was coming. She saw the work that I was doing. She appreciated everything that I was doing, and more than that, she saw the value. She signed the account. I got paid the $3,600.00. I had other clients, who were paying that amount, and my business was based on an investment, that I knew would pay off in the long run, and it did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners? Among young people, there's a lot of talk coming up in business, that it's really important to be aggressive with your pricing, and not undersell yourself.

Jennefer W.:
You know, I wasn't underselling myself, and you have to want to give, in order to get, and when you have zero clients, and you have the opportunity to get a client, who you know will be the foundation of growing your business, you need to take that step, and you need to invest, and know that at the end of that six months, or whatever timeframe you're going to get your money back. You have to look at the big picture. You have to be long term, and you have to look at that ROI, the return on investment. It can't stretch out forever in eternity.

Jennefer W.:
You need to have a definite stop date, which is exactly what I did with this client. It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000.00, but what I got back through that $10,000.00, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a great story. Let's talk about your every day money tip, because it also pertains to when you start a business, and you're the small guy, you still need to have the tools, that the big guys have, but they are expensive. So, you have a tip on how you can save, if you are an individual, or a small boutique business, and you have to be assertive about it. Go for it.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and what you need to do, this is what I did. I am a small business. I've always been a small business, and whenever you're going out for products and services, if it's expensive, you know you have to use it, but tell them, "You know what? I'm a small business. Do you have a small business discount? What can you give me? I'm not the Edelmanns, or the Ketchums of the world. I'm not pulling in like $30-$40 million a year. I'm pulling in a fraction, but what I am is a client, and there's more of me than there are of the Ketchums, and the Edelmanns, and the large corporations."

Jennefer W.:
So, if you go out there, and you are aggressive, if you are forceful, and you say, "Look, I'm a small business. I'll be a loyal client. Give me that discount, that I know that you can give me." Let me tell you, it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so our listeners who aren't familiar, you were referencing large public relations firms, 'cause you are in the public relations business. So, can you give us a tangible example, of something that you bought when you were starting out, or buy now, and approximately what it would cost for a large business, and approximately what it would cost for a ... how much you can get a discount from, from sort of the list price, so people have an idea of how much you can ask for?

Jennefer W.:
Sure. One of the services that I use is called, ProfNet, and it's specific to the PR community. What it is, you get pushed about 100 leads a day, and you go through them seeing which ones are, that you can respond to. It's from reporters. It's from producers. They're looking for interview topics for the stories that they are writing or producing.

Jennefer W.:
For large companies, it's several thousand dollars a year. I'm not exactly sure. Like $3,000.00 or $4,000.00, and by making it clear, and asking for a discount, and saying that I am a small business, I got it for less than $1,000.00 a year. So, right there and then, I was able to save about, over $2,000.00, that I would have paid ordinarily, if I had not spoken up and say, "Hey, I'm a small business. I'm a solopreneur. What can you do for me?" And it worked, and I saved a lot of money, because of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can we find you, and find out more about you?

Jennefer W.:
Well, you can always find me on Twitter, which is J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R-T-B-G. You can go to my website, which is The Boreland Group dot com. B-O-R-E-L-A-N-D Group dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn, and again, my first name is spelled funny. It's J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R, and the last name is W-I-T-T-E-R. No h.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there a story behind the spelling of your name?

Jennefer W.:
You know what? I wish. I just think it was a nurse, who spelled it incorrectly. Both parents deny spelling it with the e, and it's on my birth certificate, so it got there some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so funny. Okay. Love that, but it sets you apart. So, there you go. We're all unique in our own way. Thank you so much, Jennefer, with an e, Witter. This was amazing. Thank you.

Jennefer W.:
Thank you, Bobbi, with an I.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, Friends. Alright, let's get right to it. Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Jennefer does a great job asking for discounts, because she is running a small business. That is the angle that she uses. So, think about what your angle is. There's countless ways for you to get a better price, or a better deal in some way, on just about anything, work or personal. You gotta find your angle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite ways to get a discount on something that I need, for example, for my business, but don't want to pay the full price, or can't afford the full price. Maybe it's not in my budget. I say that. I just reach out and say to the vendor, "That's just not in my budget right now. Will you be in touch, if and when you have something that's an alternative to the offering, or maybe you can offer me a price reduction, an option that can work within my budget?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I have always gotten a response, and in almost every case, we've been able to work out a way for me to become a client, because ultimately, that's what they want. They want to get you in to their system, as a client, at some level, and then hopefully, later on down the road, they can increase how much you're spending, because you'll see the value in the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: So, here's the flip side of all that. The most important part of Jennefer's money story, isn't that she lowered the price for her client, or did some of the work for free, however you want to look at it. To get a new client, it's that she had a strategy to end it. Expectations were set right at the outset. So, let's just say, you're on the other side of the business that I just talked about, where you had a business owner like myself coming to you saying, "It's just not in my budget." And you work out a deal to get me onboard. The important thing is to set expectations to say, "Okay, we're gonna do this for one year, and then, in a year when you see the value and hopefully your business is doing better, and your budget would have increased, you're gonna come in at the regular price." And they're hoping, that I, the business owner, will see the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's important, as Jennefer did, to work with clients when they need you to work with them, but also have them recognize that they are getting something of value, that maybe they're not paying the full price for, and that the expectation is, down the road, the price will meet the level that it needs to be at, for the business owner to sustain their business, because at the end of the day, if you enjoy doing business with somebody, you like their product, you want them to stay in business, and to do so, you need to make a profit. All good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another great thing. If you enjoyed this podcast, let a friend know. Help us grow the show. Also, share it on social media. On Twitter, I am at Bobbi Rebell. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell One, and DM me with your feedback. A lot of you have been doing that, and it's really great for me to hear which episodes really resonate, and what you want to hear more of, and maybe what you're not that into. That's okay too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love hearing all of it, and as I have mentioned on previous episodes, we are now gearing up to do bonus episodes, which will include listener questions. So, send them in. You can DM me on the socials that I just mentioned, or you can email me them at, hello at Financial Grownup dot com. That's, hello at Financial Grownup dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Jennefer's. She has so much to offer. Do check out her book, The Little Book of Big PR, and of course, The Boreland Group, and thank you, Jennefer, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by, Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.