Traveling like a grownup can be overwhelming. Pavia Rosati had the world class intel everyone wanted.  But she and her Fathom co-founder thought they needed a business savvy partner. Except they never found Mr/Ms. right. So they stepped up their game and did it themselves. 

In Pavia's money story you will learn:

“You need to think about time as money when you travel. You don’t have an unlimited time budget and so make sure you are spending your time as wisely as possible.”

That's right. When we started this business about nine years ago, we didn't really have the money locked up tight. We didn't have a full proof business plan. We had ideas for how to make money, but we had the vision and we had the drive, and at a certain point, we stopped talking about it and we're like, okay, we're just going to do it. In hindsight, it would have been better if we had also had somebody who was kind of the money yin to our content and experience yang.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there any business plan? Any revenue projection plan?

Pavia Rosati:
There were. There were. We didn't think about this at all. Digital media is, it's a moving target right now right. We had plans for where the money would come from, but when the industry changes, and the ad market changes, and people's online behaviors change, you need to be able to adjust your business models accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened specifically? What was your original plan, and then what happened?

Pavia Rosati:
The original plan, we actually did have somebody who was going to come on board as the business partner. At the end, she said, you know what, I just can't take the risk. I don't have the entrepreneurial courage that it takes to go out and do this. What's funny, when you launch a business, it's like dating. Everybody has you, oh, you should talk to this person. Oh, you should talk to that person. I swear, in the first year of the business, I had coffee with someone else, and someone new.

We ultimately made the decision of, you know what, if the alternative is not to do this, or to wait until we find the right person, the moment might be too late, so let's just do this and get this out there, and then see where we end up.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened? You didn't have a business partner. What actually happened in terms of the business part of Fathom.

Pavia Rosati:
The business part of Fathom is [Gerilyn 00:05:13] and myself doing the business. It means that we're the ones who hustle for the deals. It means that we're the ones who close these deals. It means that we've discovered our inner sales people, and we've been able to do it because we've been able to stay afloat, and we've been able to keep doing this. But, the question is, had we had somebody who was a serious, serious business person, where could we have been, and how much more could we have done, and how much more money would we have made?

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Can you think of any examples where you felt the real lack of that?

Pavia Rosati:
There was a project that we were pitching that we were very excited about working on. The person that I was negotiating with said, here's my budget. I said, hmm. Yeah, I was thinking three times that. I thought, oh God, this is when it all falls apart. Instead, he came back and he said, okay, that's fine. That was a great, very lucrative project for us.

One of the times when it really would have been helpful to have some money and some business muscle behind us was a few years ago when we launched these fantastic honeymoon guides to Italy. I love the fact that we cover the whole world. The question we get again and again from people who are seasoned travelers, or people who never travel, is help me figure out my trip to Italy. So we came up with these fantastic itineraries, three days, in Florence, Venice, Rome, and the Amalfi Coast. Think of it as a concierge in your pocket. These guides are amazing. Anybody who found them and downloaded them was like, Oh my God, this is perfect. One small guide and my whole trip is planned.

Had we had somebody, however, with a lot more marketing experience, we could have gotten the word out about these things out to the thousands and tens of thousands of travelers who would have wanted these for their summer vacations to Italy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing the work but you're not getting the attention that you want. How have you solved that, or have you?

Pavia Rosati:
Finding an audience is the ongoing struggle that anybody who is creating content, is struggling with all the time. There is no perfect answer to this. Getting our great work to the people who need it and who are looking for the information, is the constant struggle that we face, but that we're also not alone in facing. I mean, the internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything, but guess what, everything is too much. There's too much noise. We always say that we do everything we do at Fathom to really cut through the clutter. To instead of giving you everything, we give you a really tight edit so that it's not overwhelming. So that you can read one article, and base your Caribbean trip just on that one article.

In Pavia’s money lesson you will learn:

“Nothing makes me more sad than being in a foreign country and seeing everybody sitting at the table looking at their iPhones. ”

Even though you're driven to do something, imagine what will happen if you don't have a safety net. Works for your plan B, works for your plan C. Have all of that stuff figured out, take the time to do that and then dive in. You will end up on much more solid ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your safety net was relying on each other and figuring it out, and having the courage to act as your own advocate. As in the case when you just mentioned where you got triple what they wanted to pay, because you stood your ground.

Pavia Rosati:
Yes. Correct. Because we stood our ground. Listen, we've lost out on things also. It's not all, we've lost out on things because we are smaller. The challenge and the reality of the ad market place right now online is a lot of companies are just after millions and millions of eyeballs, and worried more about the numbers than the quality of what they're getting. We deliver on quality, but what we sometimes lose out on is quantity.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's something that I truly believe is evolving. I think we're seeing with a lot of, for example, the influencer market. People are moving away from, or at least paying more attention to, the micro-influencers, and paying less attention to or, maybe being more realistic, about these giant influencers. The stickiness is not always the same as a micro audience that might be interested in say a podcast, or a blog or whatever, that's very niche. I think there's a lot more interest in that because the value of quality and engagement. You probably have a very engaged audience.

Pavia Rosati:
We do. We have a very engaged audience. The only criticism we ever hear is, I wanted to go to fill in the blank on the most remote place on earth, and you don't have a full guide yet. Work faster.

In Pavia's everyday money tip you will learn:

“The internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything but guess what? Everything is too much. There is too much noise.”

Correct. Of course my tip is going to be about money. You're absolutely right. You need to think of time as money when you travel. You don't have an unlimited time budget. So make sure that you're spending your time as wisely as possible. When it comes to money, there are really simple things that you can do before your trip to make sure that you have things taken care of. Number one, not every place you go is going to have the most reliable ATM machine that's working where you need it to work. So maybe, plan ahead and have some cash available, if you're traveling in a foreign currency, to get you through the first day or two, until you can get to an ATM or a bank where you can change money.

Similarly, plan your tips in advance. Have a couple of euros in your pocket. Have pesos in your pocket so that you don't have to be fumbling for change when you want to give a porter a tip, or worse, give someone a dollar bill, because there's nothing that's worse than handing someone a $3 tip, then they would have to go to the bank to change that? Terrible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We sometimes, in America, assume that everyone really wants dollars, and sometimes they don't.

Pavia Rosati:
That hasn't been the case since like 1960. I have to tell this to my Dad all the time. He's like, I'll leave $100. I'm like no papa, they don't want to have to go to the bank to change some money. No. Other things to think about in terms of time and money when you're traveling is, invest in the things that are going to make your trip better. Invest in really good suitcase, so that you're sure that your stuff arrive safely. When you are thinking about auto insurance, know before hand, what does your credit card cover, what doesn't it cover. When you're getting on a plane, know what your points are. Does your credit card give you access to lounges at the airports? If so, which one.

I keep a file in my contacts of every lounge of the airports that I go to that I know which I have access to, through my credit card.



Financial Grownup tip number one:

Sometimes, the perfect partner is really late. Pavia and her partner were searching for a business oriented partner to add, and they never found them. They had to step up and just do it themselves. It wasn't their plan, it wasn't their ideal, and it still may change if they find the right match. And yeah, things might have been better if they did find that match earlier, or not. But just like you have to live your life even if you haven't found the perfect, let's say, romantic partner. It's the same with business. You got to keep moving. The right business partner may have not been there for the startup phase, but maybe there's someone that's right for them now that the company is more mature. They're looking, but they want the right fit, and that's a good thing.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

If you are a workaholic, yes, I'm looking in the mirror. One chapter that I loved in the book, travel anywhere and avoid being a tourists, was about the coolest coworking spaces. Here's the things everyone. Work should not keep you from traveling. But that doesn't mean that everyone really, especially maybe you're an entrepreneur, you have your own business, or you have a job with a lot of responsibility. Maybe you really can't take the time off that you feel that you need, or that people outside are telling you that you need. Maybe it doesn't make sense to put up walls between work and life and to go on this unplugged vacation. Maybe, you're going to enjoy your vacation more if you can do let's say, three days of vacation, and one day in a coworking space in that foreign city, or that other city that's not where you work that you're going on vacation with. Maybe that's actually going to help you stay on top of things, enjoy things more, focus on the days that you are "on vacation", but you can do work occasionally in that city and remain tied to your business in a ways that gives you comfort. So that when you come home, you aren't in catch up mode, and also frankly, before you leave.

Episode Links:

Pavia's Book Travel Anywhere (And Avoid Being a Tourist)

Check out Pavia's website -

www.FathomAway.com

Follow Pavia!

• Instagram - @FathomWayToGo and @PaviaNYC

• Pinterest - @FathomWayToGo

• Twitter - @FathomWayToGo

• Facebook - @FathomWayToGo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Dan Schawbel knew he needed to leave his job, but carefully choosing when and how to do it was the key to success in launching his own social media entrepreneurial venture

In Dan's money story you will learn:

• How he was able to transition from his corporate job to becoming an entrepreneur

• What it was like starting his own company

• How his life was different after making the transition
  

In Dan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important to be patient when moving from a corporate job to your own job

• Why you should prioritize what's important to you

• Why you should Invest in yourself

In Dan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How using a goal sheet can help you stay productive

In My Take you will learn:

• Why you shouldn’t rush your exit strategy

• Why it's important to create a goal system
  

Episode Links -

• Dan’s podcast - 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

• Dan's book - Back to Human: How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation

• Dan's book - Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Check out Dan's websites -

• Dan Schawbel

• Millennial Branding

• Workplace Trends

Follow Dan!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking to the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of a work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner of Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. There is an expression out there that became very popular a while back. First I believe it was first really mainstreamed on a show called Sex and the City. Then it was a book and then a movie. The expression is he's just not that into you because a lot of the time relationships don't work out, not for some big dramatic, blowup reason, but just because one person isn't that into it. They just hope there's someone else out there that will wow them, that will be their true love, not they're like, good for now, whatever.

Bobbi Rebell:
That can be true for jobs too. Follow me here guys. For all the stereotypes about hating your job and wanting to go into your boss's office and dramatically scream, "I quit." The truth is most jobs are okay. We like them, but sometimes you just know you're just not that into it. So then what? And that was the case with our guest today, Dan Schawbel. He's the author of Back to Human and the host of the podcast, Five Minutes with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners recently, so a special welcome to all of you. We keep the shows short because life is busy, and we want to fit into your schedule, so feel free to listen to one episode. If you are short on time, we try to keep them the classic episodes of which this is one to about 15 minutes. We do Financial Grownup Guides, often on the weekends. Those are even shorter, but if you have a little more time, feel free to stack the episodes together to make whatever amount of time you want to fill. So, if you're commuting, you have a 45 minute commute. Listen to three episodes. If it works for you, we're happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guests, Dan Schawbel, who I learned about through former Financial Grownup guests, Stefanie O'Connell. She's actually been on the show a couple of times. We will link to her episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan Schawbel has a great story for all of us about what I was talking about, about just not being that into a job. He was doing really well. His bosses liked him. He liked his colleagues, but it just wasn't enough for him. He wasn't miserable. He just wasn't that into it. Here is Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so happy to have you because your book is amazing, Back to Human, and I'm also enjoying your new podcast, Five Questions with Dan Schawbel, which has the most amazing guest line-up, by the way, everyone from Rachel Ray to Lewis Howes, Chris Anderson, star studded lineup there, so congrats on all.

Dan Schawbel:
Much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we stick to three main questions here on Financial Grownup, and the first of which is to tell us your money story, and this has to do with a big transition in your life that turned out okay, I think. Go for it.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. This was at the early days of social media, so I created the first ever social media positions in a big company back in 2007. I knew I was onto something, and I knew that I had a high value in the marketplace because it was new, and I had the right skills at the right time, and so that gave me a degree of confidence. The other thing that gave me a lot of confidence was outside of work, the reason why I got the position is I was early into blogging, social media. I had my own magazine and a blog that was successful, and to me, that made me realize that, oh my God, not only do I have these skills, but I have the assets, the credibility, the connections that I can leverage, and I was getting a lot of demand from companies to have me speak at those companies to various groups and audiences.

Dan Schawbel:
Between all of that, it proved to me that there was a market that I was the right person at the right time, and that allowed me to transition from corporate life into entrepreneurial life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's fascinating, though, because why didn't your corporate bosses see this and try to retain you?

Dan Schawbel:
It's actually really interesting. They knew that I was eventually going to leave. When I quit, they weren't surprised, but they didn't know when it was going to happen, so they wanted to maximize me and my time when I was actually there. So, that was really smart, and then they became one of my early clients because when I quit, they want to sign a consulting contract. So, that was the transition between when I was there and when they hired a replacement is we were working on a contingent basis.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of discussions were there during this time period? Did they tell you, "We value you? We just literally don't have the budget?" Or was there something else going on?

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities. I was doing a lot of this stuff that I still do, but within the few breaks that I had during the workday and outside of work. So my life was already crazy, and I was being ... Google wanted me to speak on campus. I was getting crazy opportunities, and so it almost wasn't fair to my manager and the company for me to stay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about that and the transition time? What was it like the early days, like day one when you started your own company?

Dan Schawbel:
One of the best pieces of advice my parents ever gave me was have the predictable income, be patient, stay at the company longer until you're really ready because I went through at least a year where I wanted to quit every day. I was like, [inaudible 00:06:11] like going home and working on my business nights and weekends was so enjoyable, what am I dealing with here? And they said, "Be patient. Make sure you have enough money." And I thought that was really good advice in hindsight. Right?

Dan Schawbel:
In the moment, I'm like, get me outta here. I think it is patience, right? It's very easy to be impatient because you get so much joy working on something that you own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the early days like? Day one? No company job. What'd you do? Did you get up and go to the gym, or did you get up and work?

Dan Schawbel:
Honestly, I don't think anything changed really. You know, I think it was the same or maybe a little bit more effort, but I was doing what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners? What's the takeaway from this?

Dan Schawbel:
The takeaway is be patient if you're going to move from a corporate job into your own business. Don't rush it. Be smart about how, where and when you're spending the money. Prioritize what's important to you, and if you're young, what should it be important to you is reinvesting in yourself and your own education and to save money so that you can make a transition that's smooth and not as stressful. There's always going to be some stress because it's something new, and people fear change. It's built into us being human. Take your time, be patient, save, know where you want to spend money and also know where you shouldn't be spending money.

Dan Schawbel:
I think that's also important that people don't talk about as much is not having lavish vacations in the early days is important. I didn't really even travel up until maybe seven years ago, and so a lot of the things that I had always wanted to do, I held off on and now I do them more regularly because I'm in a different position, but when you're first starting out, save, be smart about your priorities. Say yes to as much as you possibly can because that will give you the privilege to say no to more things later in life, the open opportunities. Do as much as you can. Surround yourself with smart people. I was fortunate to have supportive parents who pushed me to be as patient as possible and to save, but if you don't have that, I think it's finding role models, finding people who believe in you, and that will give you enough confidence to succeed in the early days so that sets you up for longterm happiness and fulfillment.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also brought with you an everyday money tip, which is something we kind of know, but so many of us just don't do.

Dan Schawbel:
I have a goal sheet that lists out the things that I need to get done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual basis. And even though this is basic, it really helps focus my attention, and there's a certain degree of satisfaction when you check something off, like you completed something, you've achieved something.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel better with that. What was on the top of your to do list today?

Dan Schawbel:
Top of my to do list today was to take a break.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, Back to Human. I really enjoyed this. There's a lot of great things here. For example, you talk about the optimal time for a break and the most productive day. Tell me more about those things.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The most productive day is Tuesday because Monday everyone's catching up on work. You have all these emails, so you're going to prioritize those instead of just planning and working on things that are going to have high impact for you on Tuesday. For every about 45 minutes you work, you should take a 15 minute break. Those 45 minutes, you need to really zone in and be focused.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your podcast, which is ... I hate to say this. This is a positive, but it's addicting because it's less than 10 minutes. It's five questions with Dan Schawbel, and you have such an incredible guest list. Tell us a little bit more about that and how you come up with these amazing guests.

Dan Schawbel:
Yep. So, I have interviewed over 2,000 people in about 10 or so years, and I've always had the same format. It's five questions in under 10 minutes, and it used to be for various media outlets and now I'm doing the same thing for a podcast because a lot of my friends have hour long podcasts, and for me, the format that makes the most sense because I'm a very intense, anxious type person is a very short podcast. And so I started putting it out, and I've been getting the feedback after thousands of downloads about how it's the podcast people listen to you between meetings. It's quick, it's efficient.

Dan Schawbel:
And I've also found that when I interview people, they give their best advice very quickly because they don't have an hour in order to talk about a subject. They need to boil it down into what's most important. So that pressure I put on them allows them to deliver their best content in just a few minutes, and yeah, it's been very enjoyable. The format feels unique and authentic to me, and it took me a while to come up with that format even though it was right in front of my face because everyone's like, "Start a podcast. Start a podcast. Start a podcast." And I had back in 2013. It wasn't the right format. I was trying to do too many things, and so I was patient. I waited, I put thought into it, and now we have Five Questions with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a great thing. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, be in touch with you, social media, all that stuff.

Dan Schawbel:
You can go to iTunes to listen to the podcast or DanSchawbel.com to see the research, the articles and all of my content as well as the book, Back to Human.

Bobbi Rebell:
And all your social channels, what's your handle?

Dan Schawbel:
It's just my name Dan Schawbel. It's D-A-N-S-C-H-A-W-B-E-L.

Bobbi Rebell:
genius. Thanks Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Do not rush your exit strategy. Dan makes a great point about being patient and planning a gracious exit. You are not in a movie, guys. Screaming, "I quit" is not a very grownup way to move to the next phase of your career. Be Realistic about the challenges that you will face after the big sendoff. As Dan said, nothing really changes your first day, not at your job. It's all on you. Your income will not be certain. Dan couldn't take vacations for a while. When I left my corporate job, I had a multiyear plan that I carried out before I left, and when I did it, it was in the most amicable way possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Create a goal system. Now, Dan talked about how it gives him satisfaction when he checks things off a list. I do that before I go to bed at night, and it calms me down a lot too. To just know what I'm up for it the next day. So, find a system to organize the things that you need to get done in different time increments. I also have begun adopting systems including, for example, [inaudible 00:13:05] in recent months. No affiliation with the company by the way, as my company has grown, and I have to coordinate schedules and deadlines with my growing team.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of that, I'm going to have a very big announcement about a new project very soon, so please follow me on social media for details. It involves a new partner, and it is one of those pinch me. I can't believe I'm actually doing this kind of thing. Translation, I am terrified, but I am excited for all of you to come along for the ride. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1. On Twitter, BobbiRebell, and if you want to be in touch or ask any questions about the show, you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. You can even email us a voice memo, and maybe we will share it in the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone go pick up Dan's book, Back to Human and check out is awesome podcast, Five questions with Dan Schawbel. It is everywhere. Follow him on social as well. Big thanks to Dan Schawbel for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

After appearing on Shark Tank, The Sole Mates’ Becca Brown and Monica Ferguson found their best business support came not from the sharks but from a resource that would become key to their growing success. 

In The Sole Mates money story you will learn:

-New details about their Shark Tank experience- including the awkward conversations they had with well-meaning friends before their episode aired

-What happened after their appearance as they became part of the Shark Tank Alumni group

-The role the private Shark Tank Alumni group plays in their current business strategy

-Specific examples of business opportunities that have come their way from being part of this exclusive group

-Details of how they were able to get a major national retail deal that elevated their business

-How they got involved with the NFL

In The Sole Mates money lesson you will learn:

-Specific ways to find entrepreneur groups that fit your business needs 

-Strategies to work to grow organic networks

In the Sole Mates every day money tip you will learn:

-Which luxury shoe brands best retail their value

-How to make sure you don’t lower the value of shoes you intend to sell

-The best strategy and what to look for when buying pre-owned shoes 

Bobbi and the Sole Mates also talk about

-The impact of the national CVS deal on their business

-Other ways they leveraged their Shark Tank experience

-The human element to big brands

In My Take you will learn:

-My strategies for buying gently work handbags and clothing

-How to apply re-sale strategies beyond shoes, to things like wedding dresses

EPISODE LINKS

thesolemates.com

Follow The Sole Mates!

Instagram @thesolemates

Twitter @thesolemates

Facebook The Sole Mates

Shark Tank 

CVS

Amazon.com

Facebook.com

Good Morning America

The View

The NFL

THEREALREAL.COM

Christian Louboutin

Gucci

Heidi Klum

Vera Wang

Oscar De La Renta

Here is an article from one of my favorite websites, The Knot, on used wedding dresses

https://www.theknot.com/content/used-wedding-dresses-buy-sell-online

---

Transcription

Becca Brown:
If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook. Don't work with them," It's a warning to all of us, like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody be on warning. Don't take these calls."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. We all need someone in our corner. Actually, we need as many people as possible in our corner. And for entrepreneurs, connections are everything, which is part of the appeal of the show Shark Tank. A deal with one of the sharks, in addition to money of course, opens doors. But a lot happens also after the cameras stop rolling that we don't hear about. More about that from our guest in a minute. You might be surprised.

Bobbi Rebell:
But first, we have some exciting news to share. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast from the Plutus Awards, which celebrate money-related content. And this October my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, will be coming out in paperback. I hope you pick up a copy, if you have not already. And maybe tell me what you think, and send over some ideas for another book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Shark Tank and our guests, those Solemates co-founders, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. They left their jobs at Goldman Sachs to start a company making heel protectors under the brand Solemates, and their products have become huge hits among celebrities. Names like Oprah and her buddy, Gail King, and countless women, including myself. As you will hear, some men as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they went on Shark Tank and they got a deal, but the deal actually didn't happen. However, a lot of maybe bigger things, longterm, long "tail", I guess we call it. Big things happened afterwards in a way that I had no idea even existed. Here are the co-founders of Solemates, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. Hey, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen, you guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Becca Brown:
Thanks.

Monica Fergusen:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the names behind the Solemates, which started with heel protectors, and now have a whole line of many, many things to help us keep our shoes in good shape and weather all kinds of hazards, like weddings. So congratulations on the success of Solemates.

Monica Fergusen:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, we like to say that our goal is to make you more comfortable in your own shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and so does Oprah, by the way. You guys have got amazing press, so many big fans. You also got a lot of press because you were on Shark Tank, where you actually got a deal, after the fact though. And you've talked about this. The deal did not happen for various reasons. But the most interesting thing, I think, that you're going to talk about in your money story is what happens after. Tell us your money story.

Becca Brown:
Yeah, well, thanks for having us, Bobbi. This is Becca speaking. So obviously being on Shark Tank was an amazing experience. We were so thrilled to have that opportunity. But honestly, one of the biggest pleasant surprises to doing the show was what happened afterwards, which is we became part of this incredible, dynamic group of Shark Tank alumni companies; other companies that have been on the show. We are all part of this private Facebook group, and it has been literally the best resource for us to continue growing our business because it's like-minded individuals with, a lot of times, product-based businesses that are growing their companies. And we all are going through the same growth trajectories and sharing ideas and feedback and resources and it's been such an amazing resource for us.

Monica Fergusen:
Every time we would tell someone about what we did, the response was, "Oh, that sounds like something that should be on Shark Tank." And before you go on the show, you can't tell anyone you're going on the show, so it was a very frustrating time for us-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so you knew ... How far in advance before you actually ... first of all, before the taping, and then before it aired ... did you know? How long were you this keeping the secret?

Monica Fergusen:
Well, it was probably only a tight, tight, tight secret for a few months. The application process is really long and really from the time you start applying, you're pretty tight lipped about it because there's no upside in telling people what you're trying to get on. So it was a lot of forced smile responses of like, "Oh, what a great idea. We had not ever considered that"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So now you have this alumni group. Tell us more about the kinds of discussions and the kinds of advice that you've gotten from that and how has that helped your business?

Monica Fergusen:
The physical manufacturer of goods and the sale of goods comes with it a really unique set of problems including sourcing, including, web development, including your relationship with Amazon, including your PR, your social media, your relationship with influencers and traditional media, your relationship with employees. What kind of benefits do you set up? Do you have your own warehousing? Do you outsource it? There's so many things that come with every part of the business that to date we've kind of operated in a little bit of a vacuum where we leveraged them for everything daily. Being on the show it's a really cool and unique experience and I feel like it's also very much like a reflection of our culture right now, so in 25 years people will have no idea what we're talking about and Shark Tank is that right now and so it's cool to be a part of something that's so like of the moment culturally, which has also helped us grow our business in really unexpected and cool ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the unexpected and cool ways the business has grown?

Becca Brown:
Well right after airing, we actually reached out to a couple of big mass retailers. CVS Pharmacies was one of them and the timing was perfect. CVS happened to be looking into building out a whole new category around fashion solutions and accessories and we had just had this massive exposure being on Shark Tank and so the buyer was willing to meet with us and literally like a month after Shark Tank, we went up to Woonsock at Rhode Island and met with the buyer and ended up launching in 5000 retail CVS pharmacies a few months later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Did you go into the Facebook group and tell them about this and what was the reaction?

Becca Brown:
No, it's not really a place where you go and brag. Okay, so if I post a query today saying, "Hey, does anybody happen to know somebody that is working in media covering women's shoes?" Chances are within an hour I would have several responses like, "Oh, I know this person. I know that person."

Monica Fergusen:
Right. It's really, has anyone had this problem or has anyone met this person who's so helpful? It's asking questions and sharing a best practice. So like, "Hey, do you know if you contact Amazon on Sundays and you get the help desk in Ireland, there are much more likely to help your brand do X, Y, and Z if you get, I will not name a country, country on another day, hang up. Because like if [inaudible 00:07:09]

Becca Brown:
And I want to add to that too because I used to rent zip cars and that the sort of ethos of Zip cars was the community takes care of itself and you take care of the car and you return it with gas so that the next person can use the car. And I feel like our Shark Tank group carries that same sort of ethos. We take care of each other. We're looking out for one another. If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook, don't work with them." It's a warning to all of us. Like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody beyond warning don't take these calls." And so we all are only as good as what we contribute and we are genuinely wanting to help one another.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give me an example of wind that happened for you guys or for someone else in the Shark Tank alumni Facebook group that may not have happened without that network?

Becca Brown:
Good morning America and the television show The View. They do these really cool segments that are kind of like flash sales and on The View it's called view your deal and one of the. Actually two of the other Sharks Tank companies in our group have done view your deal before and they were so kind to introduce us to the group that runs that. So we did it in July.

Monica Fergusen:
And it was a great revenue generator and then more recently someone asked, anyone have products that would be interesting for NFL players in their fall training. So we're like, you know, we have products that we market for women but the product certainly work for men in hot pink packaging with high yield on it. If they're open to it, we're open to it and the managers looked at our product line and were like, "These products are amazing."

Monica Fergusen:
And so a 110 NFL players have been using our blister blocker and antibacterial spray as a result of some of the Shark Tank group The Newson sports managers who are looking for products for gift bags and looking to create relationships between celebrities and product companies and get nothing from it. Like the people in the group get, there no economic gain for them. It's more people they know have been put together with other people they know and that kind of goodwill you realize as you get older. It doesn't exist in that many places in the world people are often looking like, what can I get out of this? Or I can introduce you but like what's my take? And that is definitely not in line with the spirit of the Shark Tank group.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Becca Brown:
I think a lot of entrepreneurs, if they make a leap to start off their own business, they've come from a company where there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of resources that you may have taken for granted and when you venture out on your own, as Monica touched on, it's very isolating and I think it's very important as soon as possible to start building a really strong organic network that is going to help you grow your business. And so obviously not everybody is going to be able to be part of the Shark Tank alumni group, but I mean looking at other entrepreneurs groups in your area, leveraging like the Chamber of Commerce, leveraging the small business administration. I think looking at your alumni network, a lot of times alumni networks do have an entrepreneur focus. There's like a sub network and it just can be so much more helpful to have that kind of a focus network because everybody's kind of in it to help one another, but also to expand and grow their businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys brought a fantastic shoe themed everyday money tip, do you tell?

Monica Fergusen:
Yes. So we're in the business of shoes and we are both appreciators and to some to be collectors of nice shoes. Not all high heels but many high heels, but something I think people should take in mind when they are considering a purchase of new shoes is that sometimes the more you spend, the more you can get back. And if you look at the success of the secondary market, the used clothing market for shoes, it's thriving, but in particular Christian Louboutin and Gucci are two brands that stick out as having the strongest bid for their gently used shoes. If you spend a thousand dollars, God bless you on a pair of shoes, the real real Mike Compu is several hundred dollars when you sell it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by Compu?

Monica Fergusen:
I mean they will have someone buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Monica Fergusen:
To make it simple. It's $500. So your net cost on that shoe is only $500. Whereas a lot of other designers that are not quite as high don't have a strong secondary bid. So you're unlikely to recoup any cash when you try to sell them. If you try to sell them, but Christian Louboutin and Gucci in particular, the real real has reported have done phenomenally

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting. What about the fact that they are worn a little bit? Can you get them resoled? How does that affect the value, if you like with the Christian Louboutin, those are the shoes. Just so people know. I personally, by the way don't own any, but maybe some day they have the red bottoms, so what happens if you've worn it? Can you get them sort of resold? Because I resell a lot of shoes sometimes if I like them. Does that hurt the value? If you then put on new soles, can you paint them red? Does it matter?

Monica Fergusen:
It actually hurt the value. Done something like put on a new sole. They want the shoe to be in pretty good condition. I don't want to plug my own product too, but using things like a heel protector is a great start because the damaged heel-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you should do anyway, whether you're going to sell it or not?

Monica Fergusen:
Well absolutely, but a damaged heel really can't be fixed. So you wear a little heel protector, keeping that heel in perfect condition, therefore it's so much easier to sell it. As someone who sells a lot of shoes, I can attest the lifetime value of the heel protector exceeds its retail value because it's a gold age-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well how much is, I mean they're not expensive. How much is a heel protector?

Monica Fergusen:
$10.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Monica Fergusen:
And that $10 is probably generated hundreds of dollars in resale for me on my shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about buying shoes secondhand? What do people need to know there, what should they look for? Any tips?

Monica Fergusen:
So it's actually great to buy a shoe secondhand. And I have no economic interest in the real real, but I'm a big fan of theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I've sold stuff fair. They're great.

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah. But you can feel comfortable buying stuff from them too because they do have a really sharp guy and discipline and what they'll accept and they'll take anything back for them. I mean they'll let you know before you buy it, if it's final sale, but for the most part things are returnable.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk a little bit about Solemates. So what's going on with you guys? You're everywhere these days.

Monica Fergusen:
We're trying, we're trying. I mean CVS has been a great boon for our business and brought us in so many new customers and such great exposure and it's also been really fun to meet the brands that were sold within CVS. I mean it's more, again, more like-minded people, non Shark Tank brands. But we reached out to the other brands that were sold with just to introduce ourselves. A lot of them are based in our area, so we've been able to actually get together and have coffee. I think people sometimes forget there's a human element to everything. And so these massive brands that have names are intimidating because they've got Heidi Klum on their packaging, but they're run by real people that have real jobs and do a lot of the same things that we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about where people can find you and keep up with all the new products that you guys will be putting out?

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah, so we're @thesolemates on Instagram and twitter and Facebook and our website is thesolemates.com where we're sort of up to date with all of our retailers and all of our products were sold at CVS, DSW, David's bridal, Von Mar, about a thousand independence all listed on our website. Always changing, always, hopefully, always growing our website and Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

Monica Fergusen:
Bobbi. Thank you so much-

Becca Brown:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Not your typical everyday money tip, but personally I kind of loved it. There's nothing wrong with having fantastic shoes. If you can get them at a huge discount, barely worn even better, but know to buy. Financial Grownup tip Number one. So the same idea goes for other things that you may not think you can afford or want to spend big money on, but if you buy gently used ones, maybe they do fit into your mindset. For most of us, it's really about getting past that psychological barrier, whether it's the idea of buying something that has been gently worn or just the idea of owning something that is so expensive. Even if you didn't pay the original retail price, so it's important to look for niche sites that specialize in what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Real, real that Monica and Becca referenced is luxury, especially shoes and handbags, but you can also look, for example, for wedding dresses, so according to The Knot a used wedding dress in great condition can sell for 50% of the retail price. Just as is the case with shoes. Some designer names like Vera Wang and Oscar De La Renta will get a higher percentage. So if you want to go really high end and you know you're going to sell your dress after your wedding, know what you're buying so you know what you're selling and you can maybe choose a designer assuming that you liked that designer because you're going to be of course wearing the dress, which is the most important thing, but maybe if you're selecting between two, select a designer that will have the higher resale value. I'm going to leave a link to The Knot with some websites that you can check out.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to know more, including or to possibly even rent a wedding dress, the show notes that will have all this information are @bobbirebell.com/podcast/the soul mates. Financial Grownup. Tip number two, turn lemons into lemonade like the ladies did. Their deal fell through, but in the end, Monica and Becca leverage the Shark Tank experience and grew their business from the show anyway. Setbacks are only that and while they are a mum about why exactly the deal didn't happen ultimately my sense is that it just didn't work for both parties when it came down to it and that's okay. No deal is better than the wrong deal and that's a great lesson from Becca and Monica.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Please be in touch DM me on all the socials. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbirebell on twitter, and sign up for our newsletter@Bobbirebell.com and thank you for a great story to Becca and Monica. So much we didn't know about Shark Tank and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

 Legendary entrepreneur Shelley Zalis, Founder and CEO of The Female Quotient, The Girls Lounge, FQ Talent and FQ Impact, knew she needed to be fearless when she started her first company Online Testing Exchange. So when her relatives offered to fund the venture, she turned down the money, choosing instead to go to outside investors. 

 

In Shelley’s money story you will learn:

-How she had an idea to disrupt the online research field

-The pivotal decision she had to make when it came to raising the million dollars she needed to get her company started

-The concerns she had about her ability to take risks with family financing

-How her strong track record and achievements in the industry allowed her relatively easy access to financing her dream company

-Examples of specific risks she was able to take because she was not emotionally connected to her funding

In Shelley’s money lesson you will learn:

-The danger of being greedy and not wanting to share equity by taking outside financing

-The importance of making bold decisions and not playing it too safe when starting and building a business

In Shelley’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The best ways to manage giving

-Shelley’s strategy to make sure the businesses she supports get the financing they need

-How Shelley makes sure her donations are always used as she intended

Bobbi and Shelley also talk about:

-Her latest venture, The Female Quotient

-The growing components of The Female Quotient including The Girls Lounge

-How The Female Quotient evolved from the Intelligence Quotient, and then the Emotional Quotient

-Men are welcome in the Girls Lounge

-The Girls Lounge is launching permanently on university campuses in over 122 countries

-FQ Talent and FQ Impact will launch soon

In My Take you will learn:

-The way to apply Shelley’s strategy to businesses you want to support

-Strategies to gain the experience and industry respect to be able to get others to buy in to your dreams when you go looking for funding

 

Episode links

Learn more about The Female Quotient https://www.thefemalequotient.com/

Follow Shelley and The Female Quotient!

Twitter: @shelleyzalis  @wearetfq

Instagram @shelleyzalis @wearetfq

Facebook: Shelley Zalis  The Female Quotient

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Transcription

Shelley Zalis:
I thought well if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say, if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed, but failure wouldn't have been an option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of 'How To Be a Financial Grown up'. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. It sounds like a dream come true to be able to avoid outside financing when you're starting a business. Keep it in the family, right? But let's be honest, how much risk would you really take with your parents or your spouse's money? And as our guest Shelley Zalis makes very clear, you need that risk to succeed. Not all money is created equal when it comes to funding startups. Welcome everyone. The show continues to grow, so thanks to all of you who have been telling your friends. If you're new, we work on flextime here. The podcast runs about 15 minutes or so. So pretty much anyone can fit it into their schedule, but if you have more time, go ahead and binge.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about Shelley Zalis. I first met her or should I say I first witnessed Shelley taking total command of a room of mesmerized women about a year ago. I was fortunate to be included in a dinner that she hosted and have been in awe ever since. She is a force. She is a disruptor in the online research business with OTX, Online Testing Exchange, that was her first company and now is taking aim at equality with The Female Quotient. Here is Shelley Zalis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shelley Zalis, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. I hope I never grow up though, because once you're grown up, you feel you never have the opportunity to keep learning and I learn every day. So I hope that I never grow up. I guess I'm like Peter Pan-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just financially.

Shelley Zalis:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you can find all your youthful adventures, right?

Shelley Zalis:
I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Shelley Zalis:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm a huge fan of your company. You're CEO of The Female Quotient, which of course encompasses the Girls' Lounge. Tell us just a little bit about what it is before we get to your money story.

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. First of all, I am your greatest fan 'cause you make every conversation, whether it's complicated or easy, fun, interactive, engaging-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you.

Shelley Zalis:
And with solutions for change. So thank you for doing what you do as well. The Female Quotient, the name came ... first came the Intelligence Quotient, IQ, then the Emotional Quotient EQ, now the Female Quotient, FQ. When you put women in any equation, the equation gets better so that we can start creating solutions around diversity. We say that diversity is good for business and yet we're going backwards. So The Female Quotient is in the business of equality and we have four key pillars, the Girls' Lounge. There's a boys club, why not have a girls' lounge, a place where the minority acts and feels like the majority. Men are welcome, but they come into our world with our rules and they all feel comfortable. And we will be launching a permanent Girls' Lounge on university campuses in over 122 countries. And then we'll also be launching the FQ Talent, a talent business for corporate women to bring more visibility to women doing remarkable things. And then we also have a practice of equality, helping companies become a quality fit because we can help women all we want, but if we don't rewrite the rules than women will continue to fall out in middle management or what we call the messy middle. And then the fourth is the FQ Impact, which is our giving back with generosity really to women in developing markets.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this costs money and a lot of that money came from Online Testing Exchange, which you built earlier in your career. You have a money ... Sort of share with us about a strategic decision that you made, a psychological strategic decision you made about how to finance your first business venture. Tell us your money story, Shelley.

Shelley Zalis:
I needed a million dollars because I met a 21 year old. I was doing website testing, usability testing and I thought, "What if we migrate research from offline to online?" And I said to him, "Trevor, why don't you build this for me?" I said, "But I have no money." And I said, "But the second someone gives you money, I'll give you a million dollars. So believe in me, invest in me and I will give it back in a very significant way." And so I needed a million dollars and I had two options, go to a big company and get them to buy in, or my husband and my father both agree to give me half a million dollars to realize my dream and they believed in me.

Shelley Zalis:
I thought about that. I thought well that's the easy way just to go to my family, but it was gonna be hard. My husband was just starting out in medicine. We did not have that kind of money. We would have been putting everything in our savings account into this and of course my father wanted to help out. And I thought well, if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed. But failure wouldn't have been an option if I had my family's option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk and so I did not take their money and I went to Nielsen and they were the first to fund me. And as soon as they said yes, I handed a 21 year old a million dollar check.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you already had a relationship with Nielsen?

Shelley Zalis:
Yep. I went to Nielsen. I said, "I have a big idea." And they said, "Great. What do you need?" I said, "I need a million dollars." And that is the check that I gave to this young man that just said yes to me, believed in me, not knowing what the results would become. But what I had was passion and purpose and an unstoppable mindset. And I went in saying, "I really want to try something new. I don't know if it's gonna work, but if it does, it's certainly gonna be a game changer." And I sold that same company three times. So they took a good risk and they also got a great reward as a result of saying yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back at those early days, do you feel that there are risks that you took? Is there a specific example you can think of, of a risk that you took that you may have been more hesitant to take had you been financed by your relatives, by your husband and your ... well really, you and your husband and your father?

Shelley Zalis:
Absolutely. The first risk I took when I got to Nielsen was I said to Nielsen, "Not only do we need to pay this young man a million dollars, but I'm going to go break into the movie business." I was very well known in the consumer packaged good business, but I decided to go after the movie business because they had two and a half minute trailers versus just 30 second spots. They tested a lot of content and they needed data within 48 hours and security was very important for them, because you could close the movie before it opens if people panned the trailer. And so I thought if I could build a system around the hardest thing possible than doing 30 second spots for products that are womb to tomb would be very simple. So I said to Nielsen, "I'm gonna go to the studios and everything they're testing offline ..." And there was a monopoly. One guy owned the research business for the movie ... for the movie industry. I said, "Everything they test offline, I want to parallel test for free online so I could calibrate the scores and build the model and build the technology that would work." And that was very risky and that was very expensive and I wouldn't have been able to take those chances if I couldn't go way out there and build the [echo system 00:08:06] very quickly by parallel testing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Versus if you were investing ... If you had your father's money and your husband's money, you would have been watching every penny and maybe been a lot more reluctant to do something like that.

Shelley Zalis:
I would have played it safe and if you play it safe, there's no way you'll be really the first to own something. And I always said to myself, "I need to be the first, the second and the third." The first has to come up with this big idea, but they usually lose. So if I took my father and husband's money, I probably would have lost. So the first always comes up with a big idea. You have to make the investment, but you don't reap the benefit because the second one comes in, they copy everything you did, but they don't really know what's under the hood, and the third is the sweeper. You've now built an [echo system 00:08:53], everyone is buying in. They get the money and they win.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, what is the takeaway here? What is the lesson for them, how they can apply it to their own lives?

Shelley Zalis:
Well I think number one, don't be greedy. Like had I've taken my husband's money and my father's money, I would have ... the equity would have stayed in the family and that was the positive. But the negative was I would have been risk averse and failure would not have been an option for me, and there is no companies that succeed building something that doesn't exist if you're not willing to fail before you succeed. Number two, when you are pioneering something that's never been done before, make sure you set yourself up in your own mind that you will have freedom to color out of the lines, that you're not gonna play it safe. You've gotta be bold, you've gotta be brave, you've gotta be willing to take chances, and you do need a partner that will support that mindset.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's talk about your everyday money tip now though, because it sort of flips where you're seated. Because now instead of being the one receiving the money, now you're in a position to support businesses that you believe in.

Shelley Zalis:
I once had someone come to me, they needed $100,000.00 to create a project that I thought was very worthwhile. And so of course I gave them $10,000.00 and I said, "Here's $10,000.00 towards the hundred thousand." As it turns out, they never raised the additional $90,000.00 that they needed and I never got my money back, and that really bothered me. That's hard worked money for me that I really gave to this organization to make something happen. So now I designate all of my giving and so if someone needs 100,000 and I'm planning to give 10, I will say to them, "You go get your 90,000 and I will give you the last 10 so that I know the project is a go." Or I will designate my giving. Of I'm gonna give 10,000 to something, I will buy three dogs sniffing dogs or I will buy three rehabilitation machines in Tel HaShomer Hospital or for my children's bar in Bar Mitzvahs. I said to them, "10% of what you get for your Bar Mitzvah, we're gonna give to an organization." And we built a gym for handicapped children and my kids were able to go and see that that actually happened. Because when you can see the results of your giving, you want to give more.

Shelley Zalis:
My mother always used to tell me that giving is like wearing a new pair of shoes. When you put them on the first time, it pinches but the more you wear them, the more comfortable you get. Like I just was at the MAKERS Conference recently and I met a young girl. She's 12 years old from India living in Colorado and she found a technology, a way to remove lead from water and she needed $25,000.00 for her dream and I thought, if they're asking everyone in the audience and someone says, "I'll give you 500, I'll give you a thousand." She might've ended up with 3,000 out of 25 and one, it would have been discouraging for her and two, she would not have been able to realize her dreams. If I'm gonna give, I want to know that it's gonna make a difference and help you go where you need to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, Shelley. Let's talk quickly about the Girls' Lounge and The Female Quotient and what is happening in the rest of 2018.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. So we are doing Girls' Lounge popups. It is a space, as I said before, where the minority acts and feels like the majority. A space for women to connect, collaborate, activate, change together, but more importantly to support each other and have unplugged conversations. So we have popups at pretty much every major industry. We will be rolling out on college campuses starting in September. We already opened two, but we'll be opening 200 universities at a time. We have access to 3,800 universities in 122 countries. Our FQ talent business will be launched in about three months. We are building it right now with wire frames.

Bobbi Rebell:
What will that be?

Shelley Zalis:
It will be a talent agency for senior women, placing women in keynotes. I'm just so sick of hearing that there's no women for keynote speeches-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I've heard that too, Shelley. It's amazing.

Shelley Zalis:
It's ridiculous. We have all the women, the women are all here. We have over 17,000 corporate women in our community that are all bad ass in their own regard with their own stories to tell. So no excuses. Sorry, not sorry. There's plenty of women. So if you don't find them, then that's just a poor excuse for not moving forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, where can people find out more about all of this and be in touch with you and your team?

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. You can follow us on social @shelleyzalis or @wearetfq and you can find us ... our website is The Female Quotient.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Shelley Zalis:
Bobbi, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing our journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
All I can say is one day I hope I have the means to be able to make someone's dreams come true the way Shelley does. It's pretty incredible, but take her advice to heart. Financial grownup tip number one, when giving to a startup, maybe your friend is starting a business, has a page on Kickstarter. Don't be afraid to take a step back and see how they raised funds from other people first. If you wanna give something to show your support early on, well maybe make a small donation, but hold back and know what happens to your money if the project is not fully funded. Financial grownup tip number two, Shelley talks about being fearless and taking risks. But take that in the context of the fact that she already had a ton of experience in the industry. She knew what she was doing. Companies like Nielsen don't just hand you a million dollars. You need to know your stuff and have the credibility and the experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe and while you're there, make sure to go to settings and select auto downloads. You don't have to worry about missing any episodes and I want to hear your thoughts. DM on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and of course, sign up for our newsletter more about the podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Shelley Zalis, truly fearless and so inspiring. Thank you Shelley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Jessi Fearon lives her Real Life on a Budget- but getting her husband in line when he saw a great sale on Fireworks was still a challenge. Plus her tips on how she got her book buying obsession under control!

 

In Jessi’s money story you will learn: 

-Why her husband blew the budget on fireworks!

-How he tried to avoid telling her about the splurge

-How she reacted when she found out he spent more on fireworks than on their wedding

-What her husband’s buddies had to say about the situation

-What else the Fearon’s could have bought with the money he spent on the fireworks

-The upside of the incident: they had their first big money talk as a couple

-The mindset that allowed Jessi to forgive her husband, and give him a roadmap for handing future temptations

 

In Jessi’s money lesson you will learn:

-Tools to put in play if you are a saver married to a spender

-How to better understand and manage the mindset of an unintentional spender

-Specific ways Jessi and her husband set and execute financial priorities

-Exactly how much money Jessi now gives her husband when he goes shopping for fireworks

 

In Jessi’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How Jessi spent over $250 in one year on books on Amazon.com

-How she was tempted to spend more than she realized

-How Jessi rediscovered the library

 

In my take you will learn:

-Why approaching well-intentioned overspenders in a non-judgemental way can be effective in helping them to adjust their behavour

-Specific pitfalls that trigger us into spending more than we planned, and how to counteract them

-How to understand the mindset of consumers who fall into the trap of spending more than they planned because of well-designed targeted sales tactics

-The benefits of having intentional discussions with anyone with whom you have shared finances. 

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Jessi’s blog jessifearon.com

Get Jessi’s new free five-day money challenge

 

Follow Jessi!

Instagram @jessifearon

Twitter @Jessifearon

Facebook @JessiFearon

---

Transcription

Jessi Fearon:
They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff, and he said, “I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was”. They looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, “dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks”.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy 4th of July, my friends, we have a special just for Independence Day money story. Thanks to our friend Jessi Fearon from Real Life on a Budget. Hopefully you are relaxing and not at work today. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. Glad to have our returning folks as well, and thank you all for the DMs and the social sharing that's been going on. It's been so fun watching the show continue to gain traction, and we have you guys to thank. So, thank you. Hopefully, like I said, you're getting some time off this holiday week. For mom, Jessi Fearon, who is also an accountant, by the way. She celebrates every 4th of July with her husband, her family, and her friends in Georgia. And her husband is in her words, a total pyro. He loves his fireworks. So much so that he blew the budget, literally, which is not going to fly when your wife runs a blog called Real Life on a Budget. Here is Jessi Fearon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi, I appreciate you having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am a huge fan of your blog, Real Life on a Budget, because you get very real. So, congratulations on the success of all that.

Jessi Fearon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you manage it down in Georgia with three kids, which is pretty cool.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes. My sweet three children that can drive me crazy sometimes, but are such a blessing at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not to be forgotten, your husband, who ... This is ... Okay, little bit of trivia here, so your wedding, for fans of your blog, they already know this. Your wedding cost all of $500.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, your husband spent even more, more than ... Your husband spent more than your entire wedding budget on fireworks. So this is an episode that we're going to drop in honor of July 4th. You have the ultimate July 4th money story. Go for it, Jessi.

Jessi Fearon:
Okay, well, a real quick little just background. It was our first year as a married couple. So we decided that we were going to celebrate the 4th of July with a good old American barbecue. And at the time our state, Georgia. You couldn't buy fireworks in the state of Georgia. You had to go outside the state. And so my husband and his buddies, they load up the truck, and they take the two hour trek over to Alabama. They buy fireworks, and they come back. And I'll never forget it. Me and my girlfriends were watching the truck pull in, and it literally looked like the Clampetts coming down the road. There were so many fireworks in the bed of this truck, it was insane. I mean, I even commented to one of the friends, I was like, "oh my goodness, it looks like they just bought fireworks enough for town hall to shoot off tonight". And so as I'm walking up to the truck, my husband's friends had this look on their face.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, oh. Like this guilty look?

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah. It's like they didn't want to talk to me, they didn't wanna look at me. It was almost like they were afraid they were gonna witness a murder or something, like they just didn't want to talk to me. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of made a joke to one of them. I said, "good mighty, how much did y'all spend"? And the one friend goes, "oh no, it wasn't us". "It was not y'all, it was your husband". What? I look over at my husband, I'm like, "honey, how much did you spend"? And so he starts going to this big deal about how they had this great sale, that it was like, buy two, get two free, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "okay honey, how much did you spend"? And he was like, "oh, we'll talk about it later". So in my mind I'm thinking, okay, he spent a lot of money. He spent probably like $200. I'm thinking that's an insane amount of money. How could you spent $200 on fireworks, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're guessing he splurged and spent about $200.

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happens next?

Jessi Fearon:
I cornered my husband and I finally got him to tell me how much she spent. But he spent $702.48 on fireworks. And I literally couldn't believe it. I thought he was joking. I kept looking at him like, what? No you did not. That's our rent money. How could you spend $700 on fireworks? And I was so mad, and so upset, I didn't scream and yell, but it was one of those things where you could just tell that I was really upset about this. I couldn't talk to anybody anymore. I was like, how could you spend $700 on fireworks?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and to put that in context too, you do disclose some of your budgeting and your expenses online, but give us a high level, what would $700 buy in the Fearon household in a typical month?

Jessi Fearon:
That would have bought groceries for about three months at that time, because it was just the two of us. So that would have bought groceries for about three months. That would have paid the one car payment that we had for two months. It would have definitely covered utilities probably for about six months, at the time. And it was in fact our rent money. So it was quite the expense. It definitely was not planned. I really did not think my husband was going to spend that much money. To say that my husband's a pyro is a little bit of an understatement. He likes to blow stuff up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened next? You have this talk.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. So the next morning, I remember I was still so mad. I could not believe it. And the thing is, that you can't return fireworks. It's a nonrefundable sale. So, it's not like we could take back any fireworks, because I mean, again, my husband bought so many fireworks, we couldn't even shoot them all off that one night. We had to shoot them off on Labor Day and then on New Year's Day, because there were so many still left. I remember we were cleaning up from the party and we were putting all the fireworks that were left over in the garage. I remember, I was so, so mad, and I kept thinking like, I just wanna scream, I just want to yell. But then the more and more I thought about it, I thought, okay, if I just scream and yell we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. So why don't I just kind of calm down and take my emotions out of it, and talk to him about this, because I really need to know why he would spend $700. I was raised in a very frugal household, and you don't spend $700 on fireworks. Only people with yachts spend $700 on fireworks. Why would you do this? And so I remember I just kind of turned around to my husband and I was like, "this was a lot of fireworks". And he goes, "it kind of is, isn't it"? "I went a little overboard, didn't I"? And I was like, "yeah honey, you went a little overboard". "So you want to tell me about this because this was a lot of money you spent". This is the first time that I really got to see how, because I'm a saver, my husband's a spender. And so this is first time I got to see how kind of a spender, for him anyways, rationalized his purchase. And it was because of that really awesome sale they were having. They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff. And he said, "I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was". He said, it wasn't until we were halfway home that one of his buddies had asked how much did you spend? And they looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, "dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks". And my husband couldn't believe it. He didn't even think it was going to be that much money because he thought he was saving a whole bunch of money. So for us this was the first real money conversation that we actually had as a married couple. We had been married for almost a year. Our anniversary is July 24th. And so we had been married for almost a year at this point, and this is the first time that we really sat down and talked about money, because even though we knew one day we wanted to have kids, or one day we wanted to buy a house, we had no plans for any of that. And so, this situation kind of pushed us into actually having to sit down and have a conversation about money, and we started realizing, okay, if we don't come together and be a team on this, there's going to be more and more $700 expenses on random stuff that isn't important, because he certainly wasn't the only one spending money. He just happened to spend a lot of money at one time, versus where, our day to day lives, we were spending little increments of money here and there, without thinking about it. And I think that it really for us kind of showed us that it compounded on itself to this one big $700 purchase where we went into it with no plan to attack at all. So it was quite the interesting thing. And I forgave my husband, obviously, we've been married now for nine years. So I forgave him, and it's kind of become our epic story for our family, about my husband's $700 expense.

Bobbi Rebell:
So looking back, I guess it's about eight years later. What is the lesson for our listeners?

Jessi Fearon:
One, if you are married to a spender, always remember to give a grace, because a lot of times spenders don't recognize that they're spending so much money, because they believe that they're saving money because of the sale. And a lot times spenders are really good at finding the bargains. They really are great at that. And just like spenders always get upset with the saver, when they want to save a bunch of money and not spend it. And so for us it came down to finding that balancing act between being a saver and a spender, and having the honest money conversation where we decided together, okay, how much are we going to spend, how much are we going to save? What is the best of both worlds? And it came down to us writing down what our financial goals were, which was saving for a house, paying off debt, and saving an emergency fund. And all of that. So we were able to put those into the budget, but then we were also able to put in spending money for my husband to go and spend money because he still buys fireworks every 4th of July. And he still spends more than probably what most people would. But now it's a planned thing, and he just gets to carry cash. He has to leave the debit card at home, so he can't go crazy in the firework store anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how much cash is he getting this year in 2018?

Jessi Fearon:
Like I said, it's still more than normal, what most people would spend, but it's $150 that he gets to buy whatever fireworks he wants. So then he can go blow them up all that he wants to.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your money tip, because you've gone over budget with things as well. Especially one of your pleasures, which is reading.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And like I said, my husband's definitely not the only one that's at fault. I had spent well over $250 in one year on Amazon buying books. And I kind of didn't even realize it because I think Prime makes it so easy. And so does Kindle, where your just buying books, and you see the deals, and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanted to read that book. So let me get that one. Oh, Amazon suggests this book. Okay. I like that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were actually reading the books?

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because sometimes people buy and they don't read.

Jessi Fearon:
No, I was definitely reading them, because I love, love to read. I read on average of about four book a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I just love to read. And here I was just buying all these books and reading, and reading, and getting excited about it. And then when I finally, I usually do, my husband and I will sit down every year and we kind of do a big annual spending review, where we literally look at how much we spent in every single category. And what we spent it on. And when I kinda sat down and realized just how much I had spent in one year on books, I was like, oh. This is my fireworks story, isn't it? I'm like, okay. we got to do something, and so I rediscovered the library. And that has kept me in check this past year so far. So it's been wonderful. I've been able to feed my guilty pleasure without a completely wrecking our budget this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. All right. Tell us more about what you are up to. I know you've got some new courses on tap.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Right now I have a free five day money challenge. All about things that you can do for the next five days. It's only about 10 minutes, 10 minutes or less a day that you can do right now. These steps that will help you to be able to start managing your money better. It will get you started on the right path to taking control over your money, and to stop letting money control you, and start putting you at the helm of your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. And where can people find out more about you and your blog?

Jessi Fearon:
They can find me at jessifearon.com, and on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook at Jesse Fearon. I'm constantly on Instagram trying to just share all the little snippets of our real life and all of its imperfect details. Everything for my husband working his side hustle here recently to buy a new boat motor, and our [inaudible 00:12:03] vacation that we go on for the cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a great 4th of July.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi. You too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, one thing that Jessi said really resonated when she talked about how a saver, like herself, can better understand a spender, and it has to do with the mindset of the spenders. Financial grownup tip number one. Jessi says, if you're married or in a relationship to a spender, always remember, give them grace. Many spenders are well intentioned, and go off track thinking in that moment when they're making the buying decision, that they're saving money. Seeing a two for one sale sets off a feeling of excitement. So many of us have fallen into buying more of an item than we intended because of the way the seller has priced it. They're smart, they know what they're doing. It sometimes is a better deal. In fact, never once did Jessi criticize the fact that the per firework price of what her husband bought wasn't a deal. He may have gotten good value. He just spent too much. She gets it. And I love her empathy and understanding. By figuring out the mindset of her husband, she was able to steer him on a healthier path and give him the tools. Okay, and also she gave him restricted cash on a budget this year, to resist the next great deal, rather than just screaming at him that he blew the budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Jessi also talks about the fact that this was the very first time the two of them had really sat down and intentionally talked about money. They didn't have kids yet, but they were newlyweds and they had no plan. So if you're in a relationship that involves shared financial resources, maybe have a little chat. If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button, and if you are listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate the podcast and leave a review. They really matter. Also, if you like the show, just tell a friend to check us out as well. And thanks to Jessi for giving us such a great Independence Day story. Let's all go out and celebrate with our friends and family. Maybe take Jessi's advice, and read a good book. Libraries are great. Also though, it's also nice to buy books on occasion, because we want to support our authors and value what they contribute as well. Authors need to make a living. So, it's a balance. Be sure to check out Real Life on a Budget and Jessi's great free course. I will leave links to both in the show notes. And thank you Jessi for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

 

Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. 

 

In Lauren’s story you will learn:

• Why she turned down a speaking engagement invitation she really wanted

• How her entrepreneur philosophy has changed since her book was released

• How turning down that so-called opportunity led to better ones

In Lauren’s lesson you will learn:

• How she balances her desire to volunteer with the importance of being paid for your work

• Her specific strategy to put a price on your time- even when you are volunteering

• Specific ways parents can evaluate how much time to allocate to different commitments

In Lauren’s money tip you will learn:

• The specific way she decides what to outsource, and what to do for herself

• Tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business

• How taking the time to learn new skills like setting up a website and putting together presentations, improved her value as an entrepreneur. 

• What she chose to outsource and the mistakes she made along the way. 

In my take you will learn:

• Why you need to decide if you are a business, or a hobby. 

• How to evaluate the true vale of an opportunity, beyond the direct financial benefit

• Why I am adamant that entrepreneurs must trademark their brands

 

Episode links:

Squarespace

Harvey Karp’s book: The happiest baby on the block

Learn more about Lauren at http://www.thefifthtrimester.com/

Follow Lauren on instagram @thefifthtrimester

Follow Lauren on Twitter @Laurensbrody

Follow Lauren on Facebook @thefifthtrimester

Buy Lauren’s book The Fifth Trimester

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

---

Transcription

Lauren S. B.:
I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard. Especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This episode is about saying no when you are not valued. And by being valued, I mean, being paid. My guest is Lauren Smith Brody. She is the Author of the bestseller, The Fifth Trimester: The Working Mom's Guide to Style, Sanity, and Big Success After Baby, which just came out in paperback.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauren is also the founder of The Fifth Trimester Consulting business, which helps parents and businesses create a more family-friendly workplace culture. Lauren is also the former Executive Editor of Glamour magazine, and you've seen her all over the media, including Good Morning America and CNN. Here is Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren Smith Brody, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll talk more about this later, but your book, The Fifth Trimester, is out in paperback this week, so congratulations on that.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. It's been a fun year.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've been building The Fifth Trimester into a whole consulting business, which brings us to the story that you are going to share because it has to do with basically running your business, and how that's evolved.

Lauren S. B.:
I have learned so many financials this past year since the hardback launch last spring, I can't even tell you. The story that I wanted to share is about the first big thing I turned down. So this whole year has been about building, as an entrepreneur, my own business, and really having to put a price tag on my time, and on what exposure is actually worth to me, and what things I'm kind of willing to do for free for the good of the community, and the good of my business, and what things are really, I must be paid for. So anyway, I had a big bank. Like think of the biggest name bank you can possibly think of-

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a definite name in my head, but okay. Go on.

Lauren S. B.:
I'm not going to say it. The two came to me this week and it was through someone else. It wasn't actually totally direct, but the conversation got a little muddled along the way, and it turned out that they didn't want to pay me to do a presentation. They wanted me to do a presentation. Didn't want me to pay them, and I'm thinking-

Bobbi Rebell:
Literally free? Not a low pay, just free?

Lauren S. B.:
No, literally, free. And so then it was like, well, maybe they would buy a big quantity of books to give to all of their employees, which at least, sort of makes my soul feel a little better about the situation. And all I want to do is take a big screenshot of their logo, turn it gray, put it on my website, and say, "I spoke here. It's huge. It's worth so much to me." Except then, I found out that actually the event was a client event. They were trying to woo new business and I was basically going to be the hired entertainment, and they weren't going to pay me for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, they probably would pay the caterer, right?

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure the food would have been really nice. I wouldn't have eaten because I would have been speaking. Anyway, I don't mean to sound bitter. I'm actually not bitter. It made me feel so good to say no to this because it's the bravest I've been about saying no to something. It could have been valuable for me to have that exposure.

Lauren S. B.:
But actually, I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women. It was going to be women, and talk about things like the pay gap, pay parity, the motherhood penalty, and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this. So it felt good to make that decision and then the big PS is that the very next day, I got two more offers from other big corporations that want me to come and speak. I turned them right over to my speaking agent, she's negotiating it, and I think it's going to go well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they will pay you.

Lauren S. B.:
And they will pay me because I feel confident enough that if I can say no to X thing, then I can probably say yes to a lot of other really good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson? I mean, I feel like there's a lot of pressure, especially on moms, to volunteer.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because so many moms are so qualified, they're organized, they have their act together, and yet, they may not be working to maximize their income in certain years, so there's an expectation. "Well, you have the time. You should volunteer."

Lauren S. B.:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, and that's really what that was. Is you would have been a volunteer for this for-profit event.

Lauren S. B.:
Right, and you know what I love even more than my business, is I love my children, and I love their school, and I love all of the things that I can do for that community, to foster that community for them. And so what I really learned ... I worked in corporate America for many, many, many years in publishing. I worked at Condé Nast. And then so this is my first venture working for myself. This is the first time when I've had the freedom to do a lot of this volunteer work, and I do squeeze it in, in the middle of the day and then I'll end up doing a lot of my work-work in the evenings.

Lauren S. B.:
And so after saying yes to the umpteenth thing that I really did enjoy, I found that I had to kind of in my head, put a price tag on my time, which sounds a little crass. But it's only in my head. I'm not sharing it with anybody else. But it's I need to put a price tag on what is an hour of my volunteer time worth? It is, what sort of satisfaction does it give me? Is it worth X dollars of my day to miss this much work to be able to enjoy this much pleasure? Is it something that I'm doing with my kids? Is it something that will directly benefit them? Or, is it more of a sort of like status thing in the school, which is worth less to me, frankly, because it just doesn't feel genuine.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes we feel obligated.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, we do feel obligated. And it's okay, like when you're part of a community, you do have an obligation sometimes to be a part of it, but it's helped me. If I put a dollar amount on an hour of my time, both for work and for volunteering, and that has made me make a lot of decisions a lot more clearly and easily about whether I say yes or no to things.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you to share a personal money tip, and I know the one that you've brought has to do with being an entrepreneur, and things that you have learned in terms of what you want to do yourself and what you outsource, and how to do that. How to decide.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, there are so many mothers who are very, very, very good at outsourcing absolutely everything that is not something they're naturally good at. That's not me. I'm one of these people who would rather just do it all myself. Well, there's diminishing returns very often on that, and it comes back to what is an hour of my time worth? So when I was putting together my website, thank God there's Squarespace, and there's actually things that make it sort of intuitive and easier, but I have never done that before. I'm not even joking.

Lauren S. B.:
This is embarrassing to admit in a podcast. I had never made my own PowerPoint. I always had a staff of designers and assistants. I would tell them what to write and do and they would animate me this gorgeous PowerPoint. Well, those are two things I actually decided to do myself because I knew that in doing them, I would gain the confidence I needed to do a lot of other things. I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about having worked in print magazines and not so much in digital.

Lauren S. B.:
Now I feel I've built a website, I've built an online community, I have built a social network. I feel very digitally savvy, and I've grown that all myself, and that started with actually spending three days struggling through Squarespace, trying to figure out how to size pictures, and how to line things up, and how to communicate to an audience, really more than anything. So that was really valuable to me.

Lauren S. B.:
On the other hand, what I did spend my money on was trademarking my company name, The Fifth Trimester, which ended up, has been ... I am so grateful there have been probably a dozen moments over the last dozen months when I have been so glad that I own that trademark. It is now something I can license. It is actually worth something to me.

Lauren S. B.:
I actually expanded the trademark to several other categories a few months ago, so that if I want to claim it in many other ways, I can. And that is definitely something I couldn't have done myself. I actually initially signed on for one of those online legal websites, and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, and I ended up hiring a real lawyer to really do it for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, I actually did the same thing with Financial Grownup, and it gives me a lot of security because I knew when I went to do the podcast, I had the audio rights to it, and I wouldn't have a problem. I think that legal money when you're not a lawyer, is definitely money well spent. You want to be protected because you're building this business, so for entrepreneurs, spend money on the right things. So speaking of The Fifth Trimester, so as I mentioned at the beginning, it's paperback week. Congratulations.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, thank you. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
This has been quite a journey. First of all, it's been a bestseller. I love seeing it on the shelf in Barnes & Noble in my neighborhood, which is really nice. It's usually in a beautiful display because people love this book.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really resonated with so many people. I wish it was there when I had my son, 10 years ago, because I would have felt so much better having a guide going back to work.

Lauren S. B.:
It is the book I needed. It's the resource I needed. When I was pregnant, during my first three trimesters, of course, I had Baby Center to tell me when my fetus was the size of a kumquat, and when he was the size of a cucumber, and then he was ready to be born. Then I learned about something called The Fourth Trimester, which was the newborn phase because the idea is that human babies are actually born a whole trimester too early. So to soothe a newborn, you recreate the feeling of the womb-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, we swaddle.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, so we swaddle. Exactly. Swaddle, we shush, we swing, all of those S verbs. It's the Harvey Karp idea. Then when I got back to work, all that support sort of fell off. I have to tell you, I was working in a fairly supportive industry, surrounded by women who were very comfortable talking about things like breastfeeding. I had a supportive spouse. We had enough money in the bank that I could take a few weeks of my leave unpaid. I did have to back after 12 weeks, which to me, was not quite enough. But it's what I needed to maintain my job.

Lauren S. B.:
And yet still, I just felt like there was nothing out there to support me. I ended up, years later, I had the idea that this was transition, that I had gotten through essentially another trimester. This one was for the Working Mom, and I had colleagues who said to me, younger colleagues who weren't in this phase of life yet who said, "Thank you for being so honest and transparent about what's hard here, because ..." And I thought, "Oh, gosh. Have I been unprofessional?" And they were like, they went on to say, "Because you've shown me I can do it one day, too. You've shown me that it's hard, and that I will still get through it, and it will be okay."

Lauren S. B.:
That was really a eureka moment for me, when I realized that my next goal in the next phase of my career was going to be support new parents in this transition back to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's more than a book now.

Lauren S. B.:
It is, yes. It's a movement. For the book, I interviewed hundreds and hundreds of new working moms to figure out what worked for them, and they've become this sort of working, collective working mom mentor for anybody going through it. But what I found is that in speaking, I go into companies and I help them make, not just better policies, but actually better culture so that even if they have good policies, a lot of these, especially the big tech companies, the big law firms.

Lauren S. B.:
People feel like they can't use what's available to them. This actually lets them change the culture, lets them use what's theirs, sort of equalizes things between moms and dads, and people who don't have children, and may never have children. To make things fair for really anyone with a personal life in the workplace.

Lauren S. B.:
So I've been in, I'm going into Google next week. I'm going to AmEx. I've been to Facebook. I've done a ton of big law firms. It has been so fulfilling and the room is full of not just new moms, or expectant moms, but also the managers who really want to support them. And that is, we are in a groundswell movement for women's rights in the workplace and it has been a good moment to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we are lucky to have you leading the charge there. Tell us where people can find you.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, absolutely. So I'm all over Instagram. Too much, it's-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your Instagram.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you. I'm having so much fun with stories in the new font. And again, like that's because I made my own website, that I feel confident that. And then on Facebook, it is The Fifth Trimester. On Twitter, I'm @LaurenSBrody. Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren S. Brody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what Lauren had to say. First of all, Financial Grownup tip number one. Are you a business or an expensive hobby? You cannot be afraid to say no to something if it does not benefit your business if you are running a business. In some cases, you may say, "You know what? I do want that logo on my website. I don't like the deal, but the logo on my website does present enough value to me that this time, I am going to say yes." That's okay, but realize you have set a low and, frankly, unsustainable price point.

Bobbi Rebell:
You will never make a profit if you don't get paid. There will come a time when you have to say no to free. Or, like I said, "You just have an expensive hobby." If a for-profit company is running a marketing event to bring in clients to benefit their business, and they don't have a budget for speakers, it is because they made a choice when they created that budget. It's just not something that they value. So think, "Are these people that you want to be in business with? And, will you feel good about being there?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lauren also talked about trademarking. If you are investing your time in a new venture, make sure you protect it. And frankly, make sure you're not violating some else's trademark. This is serious stuff. If you are not a lawyer, and I should say a lawyer that specializes in this, get a pro. Get the right lawyer for this. Don't mess around. The last thing you want is to devote your limited time and resources to something, only to have someone swoop in, and benefit from the brand value that you have created.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you all for all of your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening and you haven't subscribed yet, it's free. Hit that subscribe button. Of course, please follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and go to my website. Sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show and other projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Lauren's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.