Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast,  the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.  

In Carrie’s money story you will learn:

-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New  York City!

-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000

-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding

-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”

-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable

-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones

-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!) 

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign

-How to determine the budget

-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals

-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures

-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time

-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value

-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies

In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her big negotiating strategy

-What she means when she says to hit the mute button

-How to use awkwardness to your advantage

-The secret to stalling as a strategy

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies

-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential

-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved. 

 

To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!

 

Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!

 

EPISODE LINKS

Likeable.com

Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!

Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com

Get Carrie’s book Work it!

Follow Carrie!

Twitter @CarrieKerpen

Instagram @CarrieKerpen

Facebook Carrie Kerpen

Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!

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Transcription

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?

Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.

Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.

Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.

Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.

Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?

Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.

Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.

Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.

Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.

Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?

Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.

Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.

Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending. 

In Jill’s money story you will learn:

-The negotiation that went on during her divorce

-The advice her father gave  her and the significance of his perspective

-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person

 

In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:

-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment

-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations. 

-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses

 

In Jill’s money tip you will learn:

-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs

-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance

-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card

-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods

-How to know what to insure

-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance

 

Episode Links

Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/

Check out the Better Off Podcast

Follow Jill!

Twitter: @jillonmoney

Facebook Jill On Money

Instagram: @jillonmoney

Linkedin JillonMoney

YouTube Jill Schlesinger

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Transcription

Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.

Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.

Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.

Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.

Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."

Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.

Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?

Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.

Bobbi Rebell:
True true.

Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.

Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?

Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."

Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.

Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?

Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.

Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.

Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.

Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

---

Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.  

In Kayla’s money story you will learn:

-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior

-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences. 

-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year

-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced

-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account

-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21

-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture

-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource

In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:

-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending

-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques

-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending

In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:

-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions

-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances

-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected

-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA. 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business

-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla. 

Episode links:

kaylasloan.com

Twitter @kaylarsloan

Instagram @kaylarsloan

Facebook @krsloan

Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month

You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com

  

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt

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Transcription

Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.

Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.

Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.

Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?

Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?

Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?

Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?

Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?

Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.

Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?

Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?

Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.

Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?

Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.

Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell. The following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad, so don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast, or download the app, it is the wise way to send money.

Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially

-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family

-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family

-How communication issues can impact financial decisions

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help

-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed

-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help

-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals

-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store

-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money

In my take you will learn:

-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help

-Strategies to have money available for that purpose

-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s new book!

Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice

Follow Jen!

Twitter: @jenhemphilll

IG: @jenhemphill

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.

Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.

Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?

Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”

Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.

Jen Hemphill:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?

Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.

Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right.

Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.

Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

 

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. 

 

In Kristin’s money story you will learn:

-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising

-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work

-The price of the first piece of art she sold

-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism

-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism

-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist

-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media

-How you can buy art that is affordable

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills

-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create

-Pricing strategies for art

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money

-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand

-Where Kristin goes for her recipes

In My Take you will learn:

-How to buy art as an investment

-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly

-How to use social media to research and find art to buy

-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art

You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself. 

EPISODE LINKS

Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/

The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018

This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July. 

Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:

Mourlot editions

Wide Walls

Art Space

Paddle8.com

Also mentioned: RealSimple.com

Follow Kristin!

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks

Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.

Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.

Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?

Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.

Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?

Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.

Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.

Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?

Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.

Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Life Coach and best-selling author Allison Task was a dot-com millionaire by 30, only to lose it all in the dot-com bust. But from there she started on a path that has included working with Martha Stewart, hosting cooking shows, writing cookbooks, building a coaching business and her latest book “Personal (R)evolution. How To Be Happy, Change Your Life, And Do That Thing You’ve Always Wanted To Do. “

 

In Allison’s money story you will learn:

-How Allison found became a millionaire when she was not yet 30 years old

-Why she had, and still has, conflicted feelings about whether she deserved the money

-How she lost the million dollars

-Why she actually came out in the red on the entire transaction, in large part because of the tax implications of the stock options

-What it was like to be part of the dot-com bubble

-What she might do differently were she to have another shot at a million dollars

In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice to listeners who want to earn a lot of money

-Why she does not advocate chasing money

-How she believes listeners can figure out what makes them happy

In Allison’s money tip you will learn

-Why her closet is so much smaller than her husbands

-Allison’s philosophy on how to maximize your clothing budget

-Her advice ,as  mom of four, on clothing for children, and how to make the most of your spending on kids shoes and clothing

-How her husband reacts when she calls his clothing “crap-oh- la”

-Why Allison shy’s away from great deals on clothing and vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-The basics of how stock options work

-Why taxes tied to stock options can complicate the investment

-How to manage an investment loss and offset future investment gains

Episode Links:

Get Allison’s new book Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do.

Visit Allison’s website

AllisonTask.com

Follow Allison!

Twitter: allisontask

Facebook: www.facebook.com/allison-task

Linked In: www.linkedin.com/allison-task

Instagram AllisonTaskCoach

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brains behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So, don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees. Join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Allison Task:
I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it, and I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there to gather. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, we'll get to our guest in just a sec. But I want to take a minute to just talk about some stuff about the show that's been going on. We've been getting a lot of great feedback, compliments and questions about the video promotions that we run on social media to support the podcast. I thought it might make sense to address some of the questions here. First of all, lots of you guys are asking me who makes them for us. I actually make them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new skills. I have a background in television production. I was a TV anchor for years. Part of working in media these days is learning a lot of technology editing and creative stuff. So, I'm really enjoying making them myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other question I'm getting the most is where you can get them made for your projects, for your business, or just for yourself. The answer is, well, I'm not going to go into that business. I have enough side hustles for now. But I did come up with an idea, an experiment that we're going to try here. We're going to have a little competition, hopefully, you guys are game, and the winner will get a custom video from me that I will make for your business, for you, for an event, whatever you want. Anything reasonable, we'll come up with something fun. The way it's going to work is from now until the beginning of July, I'm going to ask that whenever you see a video promotion for Financial Grownup, you share it on social media. Whether it be sharing on Facebook, retreating, reposting on Instagram, also DM me. Let me know that you're out there and that you are spreading the word about Financial Grownup. In the beginning of July, 1 week in July, I will see who is sharing the most and they will get a custom-made video promo just for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our fantastic guest. She is so cool. As you heard at the top of the show, the money came easy for a young Allison Task, and then it went poof, just as fast. But she has recovered. You'll be glad to know and has made peace with the whole drama. Not sure I would be so chill. But Allison did go on to work with Martha Stewart, and to host your own cooking shows. Also, she wrote some bestselling cookbooks. Alison has also built a life coaching business and she's got a great situation now with her husband and kids, and a fantastic new book that was just released called Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. Basically, it's all the solutions to everything in a book. Yeah. Anyway, she's doing a lot, she's terrific. Here is Allison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison Task, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. I binge read it this weekend. Even though I know I'm supposed to be doing exercises and stopping and going back and forth and all that good stuff. I promise I will, okay?

Allison Task:
You got it. It's there for you when you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. And you brought with you a money story which I have not heard in full yet. But I'm really excited about the beginning and really curious about the end, go for it.

Allison Task:
Okay. Well, the beginning is I need a million dollars and then cut to the end I lost a million dollars all before I was 30. That was actually real dollars. That wasn't like my monopoly, that was real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Fill in the blanks on that one.

Allison Task:
Okay, the blanks are simple, dot com. I was one of those early dot com kids and was one of the first 50 people in three different companies. One of them went public when I was there, and I had two commas in my bank account that I checked via etrade.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us the details. What was the company and how did you end up working there? Tell us just a little bit more.

Allison Task:
Sure. The company was called Silicon Valley Internet Partners. I was the marketing director. So, after a year it was then called Viant. You may remember at the time there was Viant, there were Siant, there were lots of internet builders. We were the people who were strategists, designers, and technologists to large companies who wanted websites back in the 90s. We helped create the not.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember that.

Allison Task:
Yeah, we worked with People Magazine. We worked all over new media and old media, literally building their high-performance websites.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, explain how you made the million dollars. You were paid in stock? What exactly happened? How did the million happen?

Allison Task:
I was employee number 50. I was there for four years. I was paid in stock. Generous stock options. Probably year two when I was there, we went public and those stock options that were pennies went to over three figures. So, I had multi million dollars on paper. And [inaudible 00:05:56] I exercised my shares, which means I got to pay taxes on those multimillion dollars too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you sell the stock when exercised those shares? [crosstalk 00:06:03] different. Right. So, explain how this works. You have to pay the taxes when you actually receive the stock, but that doesn't mean you sold the stock and received money.

Allison Task:
Correct. So, I probably purchased the stock when it was around 60. It went up to 120. And then I remember my father telling me, "Honey, it's at 30, you need to sell. You need to sell." I'm like, "It's fine." I didn't sell until it went down to six, and then it became a penny stock and I believe delisted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, you went from a million, more than a million-

Allison Task:
More than a million.

Bobbi Rebell:
... to ultimately that whole venture cost you money because of the tax. Is that correct?

Allison Task:
Yeah, that's so painful. I did have five years during which I was not paying tax. I was not paying tax, why? Because I had then got to write off the loss. But, yeah. I think it wasn't, definitely it wasn't a million dollars in the bank account. Let's just say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, first of all, looking back, is there anything you could have done differently? I guess you should have sold it at 120 if you are had a crystal ball, which you did not.

Allison Task:
Listen, with four kids, I would not have minded having that money, made a few investments. I think it would have been prudent to have earned it. What it did do for me, though, was set me up with my attitude for life. First of all, I say it's a million-dollar joke, I need to laugh a lot and I learn a lot from that experience, right? There's some value there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't alone, by the way.

Allison Task:
Oh, God. No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Allison Task:
Definitely. At least I did it to myself, you know what I mean? No one was [inaudible 00:07:25] me. That was my choice, fair and square. I think I always felt uncomfortable because I didn't earn the money, right? I wanted to earn it with my effort. I felt like, well, I was just part of a big thing. Well, that money came from somewhere. Someone had their retirement account and it went into Viant at some time. It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it. I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a little psychiatrist's thing, but do you feel like you sabotaged yourself the way you're talking?

Allison Task:
I think you're onto something. I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? I'm a marketing director for a dot com company. Come on. Come on. I'm not working that hard. How did I create that value? I didn't. In the end, it wasn't a value. It went away. It was part of the big bubble. Something of it felt dirty. Money is money, that was someone's, it wasn't mine. I didn't earn it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back in all your grow up wisdom, what is the lesson, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Allison Task:
Well, the take away is definitely find a way to earn your money in a way you feel good about. I, after that, literally left and started working for myself, right? When you work for yourself, you're only as good as your last client. You're only as good as your last experience. I developed a lot of personal integrity in terms of the way I work and the way I want to do my work. From that, I have something that's more important than money in my opinion, which is life satisfaction. Making a meaningful contribution. I'm a life coach. Everyone who comes to my office wants to make a meaningful contribution, every single last one. It's more valuable than money.

Allison Task:
I lost the money and learned the lesson, but I still really ... I had my ethics and values and I knew something wasn't right. What's the lesson your listeners?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Allison Task:
If you make a lot of money and you keep chasing money, there's something that's not right. There's a lack of fitness. If you have money and you keep chasing money, it's like you can never be too rich or too thin. I don't subscribe to that. I think there's a weird thing when you keep chasing money. So, figure out what that's about if you actually want to be happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we're going to pivot and kind of take a different angle. Because your money tip actually has to do with splurging. So, I guess it's okay if you have the right amount of money to splurge. Tell us more about how you approach that.

Allison Task:
Definitely. Splurge and enjoy it. This one, I'm going to take you into my closet for this one. My husband and I share a closet. It's a walk-in closet. But my side is pretty small. And why is my side small? I buy outstanding things. I used to go to the Gap and get six pairs of pants, half of which were on sale, most of which would fall apart in three months. I now by very expensive high quality essential pieces. Like, a pair of black pants, an amazing pair of Frye boots. My husband likes a sale, and he has a lot of crap-hola that doesn't exactly look, good fit.

Bobbi Rebell:
How would he feel if he heard you say that?

Allison Task:
He would not his hand and say, "I know hun, I know."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, really?

Allison Task:
I know, but it was such a good deal. But it was such a good deal. No good deal. Certainly not when you're sharing my closet, babe. No. Those vacations, right? You wait all year to go on the vacation. Spend the money. Spend the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Easier said than done. What about with your kids?

Allison Task:
Ah, my kids. I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. First of all, I have four kids, three of whom are under five. I do not want tons of crap, right? Their shoes, they each get one pair of sneakers, period. Wear it until there are holes in it. I mean that literally. They were their sneakers-

Bobbi Rebell:
But what if they get wet?

Allison Task:
Well, they have really good rubber boots.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book. As I mentioned, I whipped through it in literally one day. I know you're not supposed to do that, because one of the best things about it is it really, if you do go through this book properly, it holds you accountable.

Allison Task:
The book is nine chapters, end and intro. Each chapter is designed to be a guidebook workbook. So, the thing about seeing your coaches, coaches ask you lots of questions to get you deeper into your own thinking. Throughout the book, there's action points and insight points with lots of questions. I say please use it with a workbook, use it with a computer. Before you can go on to the next chapter, there's a prep sheet. You're constantly scaling yourself. How much closer am I to achieving my goal?

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite chapter then?

Allison Task:
I really like chapter five. Chapter four is identify your network. It's for people who want to do more networking. Anytime you have something you want to do, you call upon your people. You call upon your social network to help you. That is everything. Chapter five is expanding your network, right? So many people feel awkward about self-promotion, about asking others for things. So, once I got you to trust me and feel comfortable that like you are loved and people root for you, now let's take the next step and expand upon that existing network.

Allison Task:
My second favorite chapter is the last chapter, which is all about celebrating. You've achieved it. You've done it. Now, let's set that experience in your brain so that you can do it again and you can call upon it in the future. My book launched last week, and last week, it became a best seller on Amazon and actually still is. And so now, this is that time for me. I get to celebrate and do end runs with everyone who helped me along the way, and that's a total joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we will leave you to celebrate. Where can everyone find you and find out more about the book and everything you're up to?

Allison Task:
Thank you. Please visit allisontask.com. That's A-L-L-I-S-O-N-T-A-S-K.com. Plug it in to Facebook, Twitter, I'm Allison Task all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Allison was pretty cool about the loss, but I wonder how she really was back in the day. I do want to do a little bit of explaining about how options work and what exactly happened in terms of the tax consequences. Because we sort of alluded to it a little bit. Allison talked about how it worked out, but I think it's important that you guys understand at least a little bit about how options work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. If you do ever get offered stock options, obviously, do the research thoroughly and understand how they work. Because as Allison explained, you can sometimes be on the hook for taxes, even before you actually have the cash from the stock. So, a little bit about that. Options basically mean that you can buy or exercise shares at a preset price, known as the strike price. If a stock is selling at a price higher than the strike price, you basically get to buy the stock at a discount. If you sell them right away, guaranteed profit. The catch, and this is what Allison mentioned, is that you owe tax on the transaction, whether or not you sell the stock at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you sell the stock, you have the cash to pay the tax from your actual profits that you took, you got the money, you're good. But if you are betting that the stock is going to keep rising even more and you want to hold on to it so you don't sell it, you still have to pay the tax on that paper profit that you had by exercising the option. So, then, if the stock goes down and you sell it for a loss, the thing is, the government does not send you a check refunding the taxes that you paid. It doesn't work that way. It's really important that you understand how that works, and the risk involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Back to the taxes. So, the tax payments are painful, but they can be used in the future to offset other investment profits. So, let's say that you have a capital gain on another stock, another investment the next year. You can carry forward the losses from the first transaction and then you can offset those gains plus, an additional $3,000. So, it's going to help your tax situation going forward, even though no one wants to have paid taxes on money they didn't really make. You do get at least to match it up against profits going forward. That's basically what Allison did, and what she was referring to when she kind of jokingly said that she did not pay taxes for five years.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right everyone, please continue to rate and review the show if you have not on iTunes or Apple Podcast. Every single review matters. I know it's another thing to do. You guys are busy, but it is truly appreciated. And of course, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any episodes. We are also now on YouTube, just starting out there. So, we're posting the show there and we're also posting those promotional videos. Just search for financial grown up and you'll find it and you can see the promotional videos there. And, if you are following me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, please DM me. I want to hear from you guys and hear what you like about the show, what you want to hear differently on the show, guests that you want all that good stuff. So, be in touch and of course, follow me on Instagram @bobbyrebell1, and twitter @bobbirebell. I'm on Facebook, Bobbi Rebel. Learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, go check out Allison Task's new book, personal revolution, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. It is already a bestseller, and thank you, Allison, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Clever Girl Finance’s Bola Sokunbi is famous for saving $100k on a $54k salary in about 3 years. But then she started dropping $3,000 on a massive collection of luxury handbags, most of which she never even used. 

In Bola’s money story you will learn:

-How she saved more than $100,000 on a salary of just $54,000 in three and a half years

-The side hustle that helped her reach that goal

-How after she reached that goal, she made a very unexpected spending splurge

-The fascinating reason, looking back, that she went down that path and kept going!

-The moment she woke up and realized she had to make a change

-Exactly what she did to get back on track and make a profit in the process

-The regret she had despite making money on her debacle

-Why she thinks so much about Amazon stock

In Bola’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why keeping her handbags in top condition was the key in getting a solid return when she went to sell them

-Other ways to maintain the value of resale able luxury goods like handbags

-Her take on investing in goods like handbags compared to the stock market and corporations

In Bola’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to get luxury goods like handbags for less money without compromising quality

-Bola’s favorite pre-owned goods resources

-How friends can trade or sell handbags to each other

-Bola’s new strategy for buying expensive handbags

In my take you will learn:

-Why I compare Bola’s handbag venture to winning the lottery

-The difference between saving money and building wealth

-How to sell luxury goods like handbags, as well as other things you can sell, like baby strollers

-Why I do not promote buying fake goods as a cheaper option

Episode links

Bola’s website: CleverGirlFinance.com

Bola’s podcast: Clever Girls Know

Follow Bola!

Twitter Clever Girl Finance

Instagram Clever Girl Finance

Facebook Clever Girl Finance

LinkedIn Bola Sokunbi

 

Also mentioned in the show:

Vestiare Collective

Fashionphile

Rent the Runway

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Bola Sokumbi:
I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather. Like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is one of those, "She did not do that," episodes. My guest was a champ at saving money on a very low income, but once she had that money, things took in unexpected turn and then there was yet another unexpected twist to the story. Bola Sokumbi is a certified financial education instructor and the force behind the very popular, Clever Girl Finance, a website and podcast that empowers and educates women to make the best financial decisions for them. Here is Bola Sokumbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Bola Sokumbi, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of yours. First of all, in addition to being a money expert, you are the force behind Clever Girl Finance, which is a website and a podcast. It started after you. I don't even know how you did this. You saved $100,000 in three and a half years on a salary of, I want to say, about $50,000?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I was making $54,000 before taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Give us just the high level. How you did that.

Bola Sokumbi:
I basically got lean and mean with, probably, my finances. I contributed to my retirement fund from my employer because I knew they were offering a match and that was a way for me to get some free money. I kept my expenses super low. I avoided my friends and stayed home. I wasn't going out to eat very much. I wasn't buying alcohol. I was the-

Bobbi Rebell:
Temporarily, right?

Bola Sokumbi:
Temporarily.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Bola Sokumbi:
I was in a steady ramen noodles and coke diet. I focused on saving 40 to 50% of my paycheck and anything extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I save my tax returns, my bonuses. I try to save as much as possible. I also started a side hustle. I started a wedding photography business, which really helped to increase the amount of money I was bringing in. That helped contribute to me being able to save that amount of money. Finally, I avoided credit cards as best I could. I, instead, used a charge card that require me to pay my balance in full every month. That kept me really mindful about my spending, but overall, it was really just setting the intention that I wanted to save and I wanted to challenge myself to save six figures. I put my mind to it. I gone to that focus and three and a half years later, I was able to save that $100,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. In full details, if anyone wants, go to Clever Girl Finance. I want to talk about your money story that you brought because Bola, this is like an incredible story given what you just said.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here you are. You got $100,000. You're hustling with a side hustle. You're eating ramen noodles. You're doing everything intentionally, maxing out your retirement account to get the max. What do you do? You start buying $3,000 handbags. Tell us what, what.

Bola Sokumbi:
Holla.

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Bola Sokumbi:
Let me break it down. Basically, I got to this point where I had saved a ton of money. I had a lot of money in the bank. Actually, at the end of the four years, I had about $150,000 saved. I was making more money. I had my business. I gone raising at my job. I was earning, now, well over six figures at this point. I was like "Wow, I have all this money. I maxed out my retirement savings. I'm still meeting my savings obligations. I just have to treat myself." I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather, like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I personally would've bought a pint of Haagen-Dazs if I wanted to treat myself but okay. $3,000 handbags.

Bola Sokumbi:
I went all the way, yes. I got my first designer handbag like "Oh my God, this is amazing. It's beautiful. I bought this in cash. I love it."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it? Describe it.

Bola Sokumbi:
It was a Channel Jumbo in black caviar leather with gold hardware, classic, beautiful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I wouldn't know.

Bola Sokumbi:
I got the one. Should've been enough, but then I was like well, few months later, I have all the spare money. I'm still saving. I didn't know what to do. I want to invest, but I don't need to invest that much. I'm going to buy another designer handbag. I got to the point where I was buying several handbags for maybe three or four years. To me, it was fine because I was still saving. I was still meeting my obligation.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you think you spent in total, Bola, on the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh my goodness. I don't know. If we were to have an Instagram competition on who could grab their handbags steady for the next 30 to 60 days, I would win, every time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Wait. You're going to have a different handbag every day for 30 to 60 days?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah, I could. Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Bola Sokumbi:
I could've. I have a lot of handbags. I had them in different colors-

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they just sitting in the closet? Were you taking them to work? What was going on with the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
That's the sucky part. I maybe use like two or three. Well, I was exaggerated. I didn't have 60. Exaggerating. About a month. Let's say, a month. I didn't really use them. That was a disappointing factor. I'm one of those people that believe that if there's something that you like and it's something that you're going to use, go for it as long as you plan it out financial, but I wasn't using them. They did not make financial sense for me. I was using like one or two of them, and then maybe the others, I would look at or wear to a baby shower for 25 minutes and it goes right back into the closet. It did not make any financial sense. Fortunately, for me, at the time that I purchase them, for those of you who are into handbags, knew that there have been a flurry of price increases especially with the higher end luxury brands.

Bola Sokumbi:
At the time I bought the handbags, I bought them before the crazy price increases started. I got to a point where I was like "Okay, this doesn't make any sense." I will look in my closet and all I would see would be dollar bills stacked up. My husband is like "You need to let these go. You don't even use them. It doesn't make sense. You feel so guilty about having them because you're not using them." I took it upon myself to sell almost every one of them. I still have a few. The ones I use. It was really hard to sell them because I felt like I was selling my children. It's crazy. When I think about it, it's ridiculous, but I sold them. Luckily, for me, because of the price increases, I was able to sell them for a lot more than I purchase. That very first Channel handbag, the black jumbo I just described with caviar hardware, I paid $2,900 for it and I sold it for $5,500.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. Only you, Bola, would actually turn a cringeworthy shopping habit into a positive investment experience.

Bola Sokumbi:
However, Bobbi, to the point you asked me before we started recording was, I made money but when I think about it, I really didn't make that much money because one of the things that trigger me to start selling those handbags was Amazon stock. I realized that if I had spent all that money I spent on those handbags on Amazon Stock, I would've had times 100 of what I had spent on handbags. Not just doubling my money. I would've like times 100 it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
If you had actually bought Amazon Stock, but truthfully, how much do you think ... do you think you spent $90,000 on handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh, I don't know. Over a three to four year period, I spent a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. You bought 30 handbags at $3,000 each.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I had about 30. They were not all the same price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Bola Sokumbi:
They were not all $3,000 handbags.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the most expensive one?

Bola Sokumbi:
The Channel handbags I had. They were about in the $3,000, $3,500 range at that time. Now, they're not anymore. They're about 6 to $7,000 now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I don't own any more handbags by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this beyond the fact that there was a time in life when investing in handbag was actually an appreciable asset? Still, they probably know. I don't know the market, but anyway, beyond the fact that it actually turned on to be a good investment.

Bola Sokumbi:
I wouldn't even describe as an appreciable handbag because for me, it was just purely for the fact that I was not using them. No one is going to pay you top dollar for a handbag that has been worn and beat up. If you're buying something, I believe that you should be using it. Lesson for this is cost per wear. You can have 100 Channel handbags if you want to have them and if you can afford them and you're paying for them in cash and it's not taking off your financial goals, but what is your cost per wear. How often are you using them? Are you getting your money's worth? If you buy a handbag for $3,000 and you wear it once, then that one time you wore it cost you $3,000 and that makes no sense. If you buy this handbag and you wear it 3,000 times over four years, then that handbag cost you $1 or maybe it comes down to cents and pennies and that starts to make more sense because as opposed to buying $25 handbags over that three-year period and use that one handbag over that time and you get your cost per wear.

Bola Sokumbi:
To me, cost per wear is really important. That's how I plan out my wardrobe. I still buy fancy things, but I have to be using them. I have to get my cost per wear down to pennies for it to make sense. I know when I see something if I'm going to use it or not. Understand your cost per wear. People may think, "Oh, buying handbags is crazy," but people spend their money on different things. For me, it was the handbag thing. Some people spend their money on electronics, on cars, on things that they don't necessarily use like having a second car in your garage that you drive on Saturday is not good to drive per wear.

Bobbi Rebell:
The handbags make you feel good.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I would pick a handbag over a lot of things. That was me. That was a lesson I learned. I put the money right back into my investment accounts. I was better for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's stick with the handbag thing. What is your money tip, your everyday money tip for everyone?

Bola Sokumbi:
I would say that if you are a handbag girl like me, no shay, no judgment, find ways to get the handbags that you like at a cheaper cost or without putting out so much money. For instance, Bobbi, you and I talked about Rent the Runway. You really like that. If you want to actually own them, you can think about getting them preowned from sties like Fashion File or Vestiaire Collective. There's a bunch of different ones that are reputable that sell authentic products or even local consignment stores in New York. There's a ton of them. Or buying them off of friends who are trying to let go of their handbags or trying to recycle their wardrobe. Those are great ways that you can get luxury at a lower cost. You can also wait until some of these handbags go into the sale and purchase them that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because a lot of them are really classic.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yes. It's all about buying something that you know you're going to use for a long time. I tend to avoid any trend pieces because I don't want to be out of fashion next year after spending all this money on it. I buy bags that I can carry forever. That's what I do. Every purchase I make right now, I carry that bag to shreds, basically.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely. Get that cost per wear down. Where can people find you and learn more about Clever Girl Finance?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. You can find me on my website at clevergirlfinance.com, on Instagram at Clever Girl Finance, on Facebook, Clever Girl Finance. I also have a podcast called, Clever Girls Know. You can search for it on iTunes, Stitcher, Sound Cloud. You'll find it there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone should definitely check all of that out. I am a big fan. Thank you so much, Bola.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Except for the fact that she was ironically able to sell the handbags at a profit, this whole thing reminds me of what happens when people inherit a ton of money or they win the lottery and then they just don't know what to do, so they go shopping. Financial Grownup tip number one, Bola was great at accumulating money but she was selling herself short when it came to building wealth. She was meeting her goals in terms of saving and investing and all that, but that doesn't mean she couldn't move the goal post given the resource that she had and make even more ambitious goals. Not a problem to buy a bag that you can afford, but she wasn't even using most of them. Bola is very specific that, well, they ironically went up in value if she had invested the money. In her case, she talks about Amazon Stock, she would've made a lot more money. Of course, you could lose money in the stock market. There's no guarantee of that. It's just something to consider.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do buy luxury goods and you aren't using them, it is easier than ever to sell them, so many resources online. You may not make as big a profit as Bola did, you may lose money but you're still going to get some cash. I have sold some bags on the real wheel. I've been happy to have the cash even though it went for less than I paid. You can also buy slightly used bags there at a discount if you want them. As I've said before, you can rent them at Rent the Runway or other similar websites. I will leave some links in the show notes for you guys. Given these resources, I would also urge you to stay away from the fakes. It undermines the economy and the business of the companies that produce the real thing. Don't buy fake bags. Also, it is illegal.

Bobbi Rebell:
We want you to be a financial grownup. Send us an email to info@financialgrownup.com if you want to be considered for one of our monthly listener episodes. Just tell us what the money story is that you want to share and your everyday money tip. If you have not already, please rate and review the podcast on iTunes, Apple Podcast. That helps others discover us and grow the community. It is truly appreciated. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter @ bobbirebell1 on Instagram and on Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. Bola is the best. I am so appreciative that she was brave enough to get really candid. She definitely got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

“The Big Life” author and former Seventeen Magazine Editor-in-Chief Ann Shoket’s boss literally mocked her when she asked to get paid more as a young magazine editor. Now, she knows better. Ann shares the one thing she does to find out what to ask for in negotiations, and how she leverages it to make more money. 

 

In Ann’s money story you will learn:

-How as a young magazine editor, Ann loved her job, but her compensation was not in line with her contributions. 

-How Ann prepared to approach her manager about a raise

-The shocking reason the manager denied her request

-The uncharacteristic response Ann gave to his pushback

-Exactly what Ann would do if she could do it over

In Ann’s lesson you will learn:

-How the resources of today could have helped Ann get that raise

-The specific advice Ann offers millennials 

-Where and how exactly listeners can get the information they need to better negotiate

-How to find out what you are worth in the job market

In Anne’s money tip you will learn:

-The best way to approach colleagues and friends to share salary and compensation information

-How e-mail vs IRL compare in sharing sensitive information about compensation and other career advice 

-Why it is so important to Ann that she help other women

-The specific language Ann uses in her conversations about money and other compensation with her peers

-How to handle issues of competition with peers and colleagues after sharing information

-What Ann learned from millennials about transparency

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of creating networks and career allies to share pay and other relevant information

-How to decide and communicate boundaries regarding the information

-How to decide if it is best to share information over email or IRL

-The importance of security when sharing sensitive information online

 

Episode Links:

Ann’s Ted Talk: Why We Should All Be More Millennial 

Anne’s book The Big Life: Embrace the Mess, Work Your Side Hustle, Fie a Monumental Relationship and Become the Badass Babe You Were Meant to Be

Anne's website:

AnnShoket.com

Follow Ann!!

Twitter @annshoket

Instagram: @annshoket

Facebook Ann.Shoket

LinkedIn Ann Shoket

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brains behind Skype. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Ann Shoket:
He looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So this episode is going to be a treat and perfect for anyone that feels they could, and let's face it, should, be earning more money. You may have a boss you need to convince or you may have your own business and need to figure out how to charge your clients more and grow your business. Ann Shoket is a big name. She first became famous as the editor-in-chief of Seventeen Magazine and was named by Forbes to be one of the most powerful U.S. fashion magazine editors. More recently, she penned The Big Life and started a Badass Babes community. And being a badass herself, she also has an amazing TED Talk called Why We Should All Be More Millennial. Which brings us to the advice she is going to share, because it is about using that idea to get paid more money. Here is Ann Shoket.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ann Shoket, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ann Shoket:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulation on your massive bestseller, The Big Life, and more recently your TED Talk, which I've now watched a number of times. You are literally the Jane Goodall of millennials, so I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you. I have devoted my career to understanding millennials and supporting them and helping them find their power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to the money story that you're going to share, which really has to do with trading money for meaning at work. Because of the importance really of meaning, because we spend so much time at work.

Ann Shoket:
So when I was sort of mid-level editor coming up in the world, just past the stage of eating ramen and scrounging and going to happy hours to have dinner, where I had some experience under my belt and a little bit of a salary, I was creating new content for my company and doing great innovations and I wanted to get paid more. And I remember I walked into my boss and I came in with a list of things that I had achieved, I'm no dummy, you know, you come in with these [crosstalk 00:03:09].

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were prepared, right.

Ann Shoket:
It wasn't entitlement, I was prepared for this conversation, and he looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." And I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills. And frankly, I wanted to get paid for the work I was doing and for the good work that I knew I was bringing them. And I remember feeling instantly small, as if I had asked for too much or my ambition was too obvious, and I backed off of my request. I felt small, I retreated. He made me feel like I should feel lucky to be in that position. And maybe it's true, it's a competitive world that we're in-

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had worked for that position. I mean, yes, many other people would love to be in that position but you had earned it and you were working.

Ann Shoket:
And probably the worst part is I loved my job, I really did and he knew it. I loved my job, I was engaged, I was doing good work, I was doing work I felt was meaningful. I was on my path to finding what felt like my purpose, I was doing something real. And he used that to make me feel small in a salary negotiation and I didn't go for the big dollars and I didn't push hard and I backed off immediately. And could I do it all over again, I might have left that meeting, gone back to my desk, and then come back with a nuts and bolts, "Here's what other people are making in my position." It was at a time where frankly we didn't have Glass Door, we didn't have a million ways to check our salaries, so I didn't know what other people were making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, was it that other people were making more or that they were just paying you very little? We don't really know I guess, we don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know. But had I had the resources available that we have today and had I had the benefit of greater perspective on the world, I would have taken that moment and figured out how to get paid what I thought I deserved at that time. I would have really pushed for it rather than feeling small and retreating.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now we are years later, you are the voice for so many millennials, you are teaching them so much. What is your lesson from this that you would share to them if they find themselves in a similar situation?

Ann Shoket:
Knowledge is power. So if you know what other people at your level, in your company, who sit next to you in the competitive company, are making then you have a much greater leverage to get paid what you deserve. Women say to me all the time, "I just want to get paid what I'm worth," and I am like, "That's great, except for how do you know what you're worth?" And the only way to know is to share your salary information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
If you walk away from this interview right now with only one thing, it's share your salary information with a trusted colleague, someone who sits next to you, your regular lunch buddy, but share your salary information. It's not gratuitous, it's not for gossip purposes, but it's so that you know and are better prepared when you go into your own salary negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sticking to this theme for your money tip, you've talked about sharing your salary information but are there specific ways and specific resources that you can tell people about that can accomplish this goal? Because it's a little bit awkward to just go up to people and say, "Oh hey, tell me what you're making and I'll tell you what I make and it will be all good." I mean, how do you actually ... Are there certain things that you look for with someone that you feel you can trust them? Are there websites you can go to, are there chat groups? Specifically how does this happen? Because it's awkward, right?

Ann Shoket:
It is awkward and I'll tell you, the first time that someone asked me to ballpark my salary for them it came in an email-

Bobbi Rebell:
And was it a close friend, was it someone you knew well?

Ann Shoket:
It was a colleague.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
Not a close friend. It was a colleague and we had been supportive of each other over the years. And at first I was so shocked, I was like, "Can you believe the nerve of this woman! I would never share my salary information with her!" And I calmed down and tried to get a little perspective and I gave her some sort of halfway information that she may be able to use, I didn't go all the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
In writing, in writing.

Ann Shoket:
I did, I emailed her back in writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
However, if I did it again I would 100% ballpark and tell her the number. I was so stunned by it but I realize she was so ahead of the curve in even asking. And I have since been in a position to help other women where I've talked about what I got paid and about the ins and outs of my book deal to help other women in getting their book deal. I have had women who have helped me as I've been building a speaking practice, women who've been tremendously supportive, because it's all brand new.

Ann Shoket:
You know, one of the things about having careers that are more complicated and more evolved than we ever planned for is that suddenly you're being thrust into totally new arenas and you have to figure out how to take the skills that you have but make them work in new places and in new ways. How do you do that unless somebody gives you the lay of the land? And so that's another piece of this sisterhood, this idea that we should all support each other so that we can rise together as women and be collaborative and powerful.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, just to be specific about this, how do you know when it's okay to trust somebody or do you try to ... You were comfortable doing it in an email, you don't feel you have to pick up the phone or meet someone in person.

Ann Shoket:
I think when you're talking real numbers, I think it's okay to send an email that says, "Hey, can I talk to you about this? I'm interested in finding out what you charge or how you got paid or how the deal went down," in an email, to be clear about what it is that you're asking them. But then to have the real nuts and bolts money conversation in person, I think is probably smart. That's how the last couple of conversations that I've had have gone. But I think it has to be someone you trust, who's not going to feel competitive, someone who's going to give you good, smart information. And I think that you find those people in your network, maybe they're not someone who sits next to you at work, maybe it's not your work wife, although you probably should share some of this information with your work wife. But it is people who are going to be in your life for a while, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
You're going to see them at industry events, you're going to be up for the same jobs, you're going to see them schmoozing here and there, you're going to see them at parities-

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you do if you find out that there's a big disparity?

Ann Shoket:
I think the only thing to do ... I mean, yes, maybe it's awkward with the two of you but I think it's better to say now you know and now you can go to your boss and let them know that you know and to be clear. One of the most interesting things about this transparency that millennials have brought into the world is that Gen Xers are so supremely uncomfortable with it, we think it's TMI and that it's oversharing and that the system, sort of old systems, are set up to keep you in line and to keep you not knowing. And those don't really serve us moving forward, the transparency that millennials are demanding is going to become second nature for all of us. And so I think it's a smart company that honors this kind of transparency rather than shuts it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right, Ann Shoket, I know that you are so busy on the speaker circuit and with all of your projects. Tell us more about what you're up to these days and where people can find you.

Ann Shoket:
So since the TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial, I have actually been doing a ton of speaking. It is, in so many ways, a love letter to millennials, to a generation that I believe is going to lead our future and is changing the way we define power and success. But it's also incredibly important for boomers and Xers, and there's this real tension at work between boomers and Xers and the millennial employees that are coming up behind them. And it is my goal to make everybody come together so that we can rise together as women.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find you?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com is the best, fastest way to find The Big Life, to find my speaking, to find my TED Talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is awesome, by the way. And on social media?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com on Instagram, ann.shoket on Facebook, annshoket on Twitter. You can find me everywhere, I'm very easy to find. A-N-N, S-H-O-K-E-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, this has been amazing.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you Bobbi, I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love how direct Ann was, I feel there were a lot of takeaways but this is what I'm going to focus on. Financial grownup tip number one, create networks and career allies to share pay and career information. But this is what I'm adding, treat it kind of like any successful relationship, in that you need to respect the boundaries and you also need to respect that even though you're being transparent with each other that doesn't mean that the information goes beyond that relationship, you need to respect the other person and their privacy. Be sure to vet someone also before you reveal too much, and keep the information that is said between the two of you, or the group, private unless it is clearly agreed that it is for public disclosure. Ann and I have shared career information and goals, but that remains private.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. When you have these conversations, Ann points out that while you can initiate via email, you should have the real conversation in real life, in person, face to face. Meeting in person is worth the time, at the very least, do it by phone. On your end, you don't want to create a paper trail with information that you don't want to go beyond the intended recipient. No matter how well-intentioned they are, things happen, be secure with your information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The minute this podcast is over, I want everyone to go listen to Ann Shoket's TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial. I will leave a link in the show notes. Then check out her book, The Big Life, and follow her on social media. I want to hear your money story and get some great money tips from you, our listeners. We are going to be starting having one episode a month be a listener as our guest. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, lesson, and money tip you would share.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you like what you are hearing please don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And of course, rate and review the show, especially on iTunes. Anywhere is good, but especially iTunes so more people can learn about the show. And on that note, please share this with a friend so we can share these stories with more people and help them live richer lives. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I adore Ann and I hope you do now too. It was a great episode and here's to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked  shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode. 

 

In Manisha’s money story you will learn:

-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons

-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator

-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween. 

-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments

-The power of compounding

In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:

-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing

-The corrosive power of inflation

-Why we need to put  the recent period of historically low inflation in context

-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility

In Manisha’s money tip you will learn

Manisha’s investing formula

1. Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios

2. Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years

3. For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age 

4. That is the amount that should be in equities

5. For example Manisha is 47. 

6. 110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Why you do not need an HP12C calculator because so much is available online

-Exactly how to find out the status of your retirement accounts and if you are on track to reach your goals

-How and why you should automate your retirement savings. 

 

Episode links: 

Follow Manisha!

Twitter: @manishathakor

Facebook: Manisha Thakor

LinkedIn Manisha Thakor

YouTube: Manisha Thakor

Instagram Manisha Thakor

Pinterest Manisha Thakor

MoneyZen.com

Get Manisha’s books! http://www.moneyzen.com/books/

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is a really hard, especially when it comes for money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are geeking out here at Financial Grownup, but stay with me friends because you will have more money and be wealthier if you listened to this episode and follow my guest advice. Manisha Thakor is the author of Get Financially Naked, How to Talk Money With Your Honey. She is also the force behind MoneyZen, and is a practicing certified financial planner. If that sounds pretty cerebral, well, she will take that as a compliment. She started learning about investing very, very early. Here is Manisha Thakor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Manisha Thakor, welcome. You are a financial grownup. I'm so excited you're joining us on the Financial Grownup podcast.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited to be here, and to be deemed by you a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're very much a grownup. You're the author of two books, On My Own Two Feet, and I love the second title, I know everyone does, Get Financially Naked. You also have MoneyZen. Lots going on.

Manisha Thakor:
I feel super excited about the world of personal finance and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good, and I'm super excited about the story that you brought to share today, because it has to do with some father-daughter bonding around, not the dinner table, around the HP 12C calculator.

Manisha Thakor:
I love this. When I was around 11 years old, my dad, he's an MBA and a CPA, he sat me down in a moment of father-daughter bonding that only financial geeks, like ourselves, could really appreciate. He had an HP 12C calculator, which for folks who may not be familiar with it, is a financial calculator that enables you to do sophisticated compounding calculations on it.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, if I earned 7% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Manisha Thakor:
That was really my first introduction to the power of compounding, and I think because he had my physically touching the buttons on the calculator, and then he made me write down the numbers in a little grid on a notepad. I can literally still even remember what the notepad looked like. It was so tactile and so visual.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have the notebook still?

Manisha Thakor:
You know, I wish I did. He and I both say in retrospect, "We totally should have saved that for the grandkids," but it's in my mind's eye. That's how I got hooked on saving and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what is the lesson for our listeners? Should everyone be bonding over calculators?

Manisha Thakor:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that's not going to happen.

Manisha Thakor:
No, I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's bring it down to a realistic level.

Manisha Thakor:
The lesson for me, and the lesson that I want to scream from the mountain tops, is, and particularly for women, is that it's not enough to just save money. Saving is great, and it's freaking hard to do, but you must invest it as well, first and foremost to offset the corrosive power of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is picking up by the way, so that's something we need to start being more aware of, and a lot of young people haven't really seen inflation at the level that other generations have. But it is going to become a bigger part of our dialog.

Manisha Thakor:
Yeah, and Bobbi, you've nailed it. We've just gone through such a bizarro period of de minimis inflation. An example I love to give is 100 bucks over a 30 year period at 3% inflation is worth $40, was, at the beginning. If you just increase that inflation to 5%, which doesn't sound like a big jump, but that drops the value of $100 in 30 years to what $20 would have bought.

Manisha Thakor:
So small [inaudible 00:05:54] inflation have a huge, huge impact, and that's why you cannot just save. You have to invest, because the first step of investing is keeping your money growing at least with the rate of inflation. If you do investing well, then ideally over the long run you grow your portfolio even faster than inflation, which increases your real purchasing power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now for your money tip, Manisha. We're geek out even more, because you have actually brought a formula. Your, Manisha's, magical formula for investing success. I promise everyone, just stick with us, she says it really well. She's going to explain it all, and we're going to have it all written down in the show notes for you as well. Go for it.

Manisha Thakor:
The way I think about how to take your hard earned savings and invest it is the following. First, take a look at the total dollar value of your current saving and investment portfolios. Second, subtract out any money you know you need to spend in the next five years. This could be money you need for a home down payment, or it could be your six month emergency fund.

Manisha Thakor:
Then, for any of your long term money, which for most of us is our retirement money. So it's any money that you know you don't have to spend in the next five years. What you do, is you take 110, and you subtract your age to get a back of the envelop estimate of what percent of your portfolio should be invested in stocks. That was a mouthful, and Bobbi, as you mentioned, it will be in the show notes, but I'll give you an example.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm 47 years old. We'll round that down, because at my age you like to round down. To keep the math easy, 110 minus 45 equals 65. So a good starting point for me, for how much of my long term money at my age should be in stocks, is 65%. Lo and behold, that's how much I have of my long term money in stocks.

Manisha Thakor:
The biggest mistake that I am seeing with young people these days is shying away from investing their savings, because they're afraid of losing money. So they're missing those vital early years of compounding. That's why it's so important that you subtract out the money you need to spend in the next five years, so no matter what the market is doing, you're fine. The money you know you needed, it's in cash. It's only your long term money that's being invested.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of young people witnessed their older siblings, or their parents, really being burnt in the recession, and that's a lot of the hesitation.

Manisha Thakor:
I'll just say, Bobbi, when I hear somebody tell me that 2007 to 2009 ruined their retirement, what I say is, "No. Either you had the wrong asset allocation going into it, or you blink and you deviated from your plan." Because if you followed the formula that I'm saying, and you didn't have any money that you needed to spend in the next five years in the market, in 2007-2009, you would have seen your portfolio drop as much as 50%, but you wouldn't have sold a single share of anything, because you didn't need to touch it, and then you would have seen your money double or triple as you came out of the recovery.

Manisha Thakor:
So the people who lost in 07-09, where the people that were forced to sell at bottom to maintain their lifestyle, or got scared because they didn't have the cash cushion, and sold at the bottom. That's why this formula is so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you've got to sit tight. Even the beginning of 2018 we had some scary days. You've got to know your focus and stick with the plan. All right. Mrs Manisha, I also hear you have big news, new projects, new jobs. Tell us.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited. I have just accepted the role of vice president of financial education for an amazing firm called Brighton Jones. I could not be happier. When I think about what I want to accomplish in this world, my belief is that money is power, and women need more of both.

Manisha Thakor:
And so I am going to be doing my darnedest in this new role to help women achieve that. As part of that, I'm really going to be ramping up my efforts with my MoneyZen newsletter. So if listeners are interested, I encourage you, go to my website, moneyzen.com. I'll have a monthly newsletter that I'll be putting out. It's educational, and I'm really going to be working hard to share the most vital resources, articles, tools, each month around women's economic empowerment, and how we can all use personal finance and investing to increase our voices and choices. I always say, "Money gives women, it gives everyone, voices and choices," and financial education, and financial guidance are what helps unlock those doors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Before I let you go, where can we find you on social media?

Manisha Thakor:
My name is a mouthful, and I'm the same handle on everything. I'm ManishaThakor everywhere. It's M-A-N-I-S-H-A-T-H-A-K-O-R, on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you forget that, go to moneyzen.com, because I have all my social media icons right up at the top.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

Manisha Thakor:
Bobbi, always a pleasure to chat with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
As warned, Manisha and her dad totally geeked out with all that math, but the good news is, you guys don't need to go out and buy yourself fancy HP 12C calculators and do all this kind of fancy math, because these days it's really all there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, there is nothing more powerful than seeing the numbers. And like I said, you don't even have to do the math yourself these days. Log into your HR website from your job, or if you work for yourself and you have retirement accounts, which you should, go there. Go to the provider, and just take a look. Most of them will have nice calculators. They'll do the math for you. They'll have probably some graphic ways to show you how you measure up, where you are relative to your retirement goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can actually see how you stand, and see how you feel about it. You might get pretty emotional. It could be a really emotion. You might doing pretty well. It could possibly be not that great, but maybe that will motivate you. But the important thing is, get the information, it doesn't take much work, and make decisions from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of decisions, financial grownup tip number two. While you're on that website, look at the retirement savings, and look for a box that says, "Increase your withholding," or a box you should check that says, "Increase your withholding by 1% every year," and of course check that box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you can always undo it, but by checking that box it will automate increasing the amount of money that you are putting away each year, and you probably won't feel it because it's tax deductible, so it won't cost you that full amount, and it will amplify your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have been hearing a lot from you guys, wanting to share your own financial grownup money stories, lessons, and money tips. So we are going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, and tell us, what is the money story that you would like to share, and what is the money tip that you would also share with us, if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Subscribe if you have not already, and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Follow me, and please retweet these silly promo videos I'm doing. They're a lot of fun. I enjoy making them. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy seeing them, if you have not already. Help us reach more listeners. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1, you can also repost those, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show, and sign up for our mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Manisha's story, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Whitney Johnson, author of "Disrupt Yourself” and her new book “Build an A Team” finds out from her financial planner that her overspending is impacting her ability to tithe 10 percent and support her church. She and her family plan a self-disruption, downsizing their life so they can deploy their money in a more intentional way. 

 

In Whitney’s story you will learn

-How a phone call from Whitney’s financial planner got Whitney’s attention about her finances

-Why Whitney was not going to be able to reach her financial goals, despite a relatively high income

-The shifts that Whitney made in terms of her spending and savings habits

-How her ties to her church and her belief in God inspire her financial planning

-How she spends differently as an entrepreneur compared to her previous career working on Wall Street

-Her belief that money is meant to be a servant, not a master

-How she uses money to support her values

 

In Whitney’s lesson you will learn:

-Every tie you spend money you are voting on the kind of world you want

-The importance of modeling financial spending for your children

 

In Whitney’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to teach kids about investing

-How to buy fractions of a share of stock

-Whitney recommends an app called Stockpile

-How Whitney looks to the theories of Peter Lynch and advocates buying what you know and use and value, and to couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior. 

 

In my take you will learn:

-How allowing your values to guide your financial life can be rewarding

-Why disrupting your life to better align it with your financial values is something people at any income level should consider

-How you can be pro-active in taking down barriers for your bosses, to create better odds of them giving a green light to your goals

-How I got my bosses to allow me to work a 4-day week for years, by removing barriers and creating solutions before I approached them. 

Episode Links

Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

Facebook - facebook.com/johnsonwhitneyauthor

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneyjohnson/

Get Whitney’s new book: Build an A Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. Free chapter download available at https://whitneyjohnson.com/ateam

Stockpile

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app.

Whitney Johnson:
"I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Well, despite the clip you heard at the top of this episode, today's podcast is not about religion, but it is about values, and leveraging your money and your financial resources to support what you and your family believe in. Whitney Johnson's new book is called Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. She is also the author of the bestseller Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work, and she hosts, you get the theme here, the Disrupt Yourself Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
In this case, the story that she's going to share, Whitney disrupted her entire family life, downsizing everything to get to her financial goals and to have the financial resources to support what she and her family value. She lives what she preaches. Here is Whitney Johnson. Whitney Johnson, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, I do want to congratulate you on your new book. It is Build an A-Team and we're going to talk more about that going forward, but just high level, what's it about?

Whitney Johnson:
Build an A-Team is about helping you as a manager build a team that can manage through change, that can be innovative and high performing, and the key is to let your people learn. When you allow them to learn, leap, and repeat, they are engaged and therefore happy, they love coming to work, they're more productive, and they love working for you, so you become a great place to work and a boss people love.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. For your money story, though, we're going talk about you and your team, which includes your husband and includes your financial planner, and an incident that happened when you got a call from your financial planner. You weren't achieving a goal that was really important to you. Tell us your money story.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. This happened about 15 years ago. I got a call from my financial planner and he said to me, "You are spending way too much money." It was really a wake-up call for me, because I was having the conversation with him of like, "I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me, that I really needed to think about, "Okay, it's really great that you can earn lots of money, but you have to also basically manage your money and not just think about what you're earning. You have to also think about what you're spending and spend less than you're actually earning." That was a really important lesson for me and really started to shift how I was thinking about money, not only what I was earning, but also what I was saving.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was important to you was that 10%. I want to pick up on that, because in your heart one of the things that you really prioritize is giving to causes that you believe in, to religious causes, to God, as you say. That was really your priority and you weren't able to accomplish that, or you would not have been able to continue to accomplish that if you didn't change your ways.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. It's such a great point because when I was thinking about the fact that I wasn't managing my money, a lot of times it was exactly to causes or people or things that I cared about, so it's not like I was being profligate, and yet if I didn't manage my money, those things that were deeply important to me, education for my children, et cetera, were not going to be a possibility, and that was a very important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there things that you could pull out that you were able to change? What did you do to pivot from there?

Whitney Johnson:
I had become an entrepreneur at this point and I was still spending like I wasn't an entrepreneur. I was still working on Wall Street, and so one of the things that we did is we made some really tough decisions. Over the next year, we decided to downsize and to sell our house, and to really pare back on how we were spending our money in that interim so that we could still buy the things that mattered to us, but then also undertake these entrepreneurial ventures that were also important to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And maintain a culture and a family life and setting an example, for the rest of your family, of giving.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely, 100%, because that is a high, high priority for me and for my husband and for our entire family, is to be able to give to others.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Whitney Johnson:
Most of us have a pretty ... not most, many, probably including myself, have a fairly froth relationship with money. We're like, "Is it good? Is it bad?" And it's not either, and so a couple of lessons that I've learned is that money is meant to be a servant, not a master, and that I, and this is a gradual lesson that I've been learning throughout my life, is to remember that that's the case. And that also the more money we're able to not only earn, but the more we extend our ability to do good beyond our physical presence, and so those are becoming mantras for me, but really guiding principles in terms of how I think about money saving tactically day-to-day, and spending, I should say, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the importance of not only thinking about growing your business and buying things, but also the values that money can help you support.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. I mean, one of the things, there was a quote that I remember reading probably about seven or eight years ago now, which is really, again, a bit of a watchword for me. It was Anna Lappé and she said that every time you spend money, you're voting on the kind of world that you want. That has been a really powerful thing for me. One, a dollar, $10, what kind of world am I saying I want with this money that I've just spent or allocated to whatever I allocated it to? That's just a really important thing to me and something that we're trying to instill in our children as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have a wonderful money tip, and this is great especially when you talk about children. It's always hard to teach children to invest because sometimes stocks are really expensive and you can't always buy. I can think of Berkshire Hathaway, obviously as the most extreme example perhaps, but a lot of stocks, they don't split and they're very expensive to buy individual stocks. They just start buying 100 shares of a stock, so talk to me about your money tip, because it has to do with investing. It's something that is often applicable when children want to start learning about investing.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. One of the really wonderful boons of the last couple of years is you can buy fractional shares. You don't have to buy 100 shares. You don't even have to buy 10 shares. You can buy a half a share. There's something called Stockpile, stockpile.com, that you can go on there and say, "Okay, I want to spend $300," and so you can spend $300 on Apple or $300 on Tesla. Or just to other day for my son, for his birthday, he wanted to buy Spotify, and so I was like, "Okay, $300. We'll buy some Spotify stock." I don't actually know how much it costs, but you can buy a half a share, a quarter of a share, a tenth of a share, but it's just based on how much money you want to spend.

Whitney Johnson:
So it's a great way to start investing in the stock market and really building on an idea that Peter Lynch pioneered 20, 30 years ago now, which is to buy what it is you know and use and value, and couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior, and fractional shares, and Stockpile specifically, allows you to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. All right. Let's talk about your new book because it is coming out pretty much now. It's called Build an A-Team. It's a follow up to Disrupt Yourself, which was a huge, huge hit and relatable to so many people, especially myself, having disrupted myself in the last few years professionally. Tell me more about Build an A-Team.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, Build an A-Team came about because people had read Disrupt Yourself and said, "Okay. I get it. I got it. I'm willing to disrupt myself, but what about the people around me? How do I create an ecosystem that makes that possible?" So in Build an A-Team I make it possible for you to think about, "Okay, how do I create a workplace or an environment, a team where personal disruption is possible?" Then I flip it on its head and say, "Okay, so to you, the manager, you don't want just your people to be disputing themselves willy-nilly. What's in it for you?"

Whitney Johnson:
So I make the case that every single person is on a learning curve, including you, the manager, and you build that team that can innovate, that can manage through change by managing your team as a collection of S curves or learning curves, and optimize by having about 70% of your people in the middle at any given time, 15% at the low end, and 15% of your people at the high end. And when they get to the high of their learning curve, you allow them to disrupt themselves because by doing that, they start over that cycle of learn, leap, and repeat, and whenever people are learning, they're able to be innovative. When they're learning, they're innovative, and so you as a company can stay competitive, and because they're so happy at work, they love working for you as a boss, and so you become a talent magnet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you, if you are the employee, because a lot of our listeners are younger and starting out in their careers, if you are on the curve and you recognize that you're at the top of your curve, do you approach your manager and say, "I basically want a different job within the organization"? I mean, what do you do?

Whitney Johnson:
Obviously there are going to be risks in doing that. You've got to really suss out your boss. I think one of the ways that you can do that is, "Does it make sense for me to have this conversation with my boss?" What's that boss' track record? Do they have a history of people who have worked for them in the past, it's been possible for them to move on to other opportunities for which the boss advocated, that they've sponsored them into those opportunities? Then you can be pretty comfortable that having that conversation with them is a safe thing to do. You also, before you have that conversation, want to make sure that in fact you are ready to ... sometimes we overestimate our abilities. We all do it. We think we really want it, and so therefore it's time for us to have it.

Whitney Johnson:
So in having that conversation, what I would encourage you to do is go to your boss and say, "I've been in this role for about three years. It feels like I'm starting to peak and I've really hit my stride, and it's time for me to try something new, so here's what I would propose and here's the business case for why it makes sense for me to do it, because it's not just about me. It's going to help our organization be more innovative, and in the process I've identified this person over here that I think can really step into this role nicely, so you will not be left in the lurch. I will help train that successor so that they're able to continue to grow and develop. And at the same time I'm able to grow and develop as well as help our organization and our team be more innovative, and so that would be my suggestion to you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Anticipate what's going to go wrong and make sure you have a solution for every possible iteration. All right. Whitney Johnson, where can people find you?

Whitney Johnson:
You can find me at whitneyjohnson.com. If you want to email me, it's wj@whitneyjohnson.com. I would love to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you have, by the way, a million, I heard a million LinkedIn followers.

Whitney Johnson:
I do, 1.2 million, actually, but I'm not counting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. You are our hero, Whitney Johnson. I will leave all of your social media links in the show notes, but just so we have them here, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff?

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Johnson Whitney, actually. It's Johnson Whitney.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Good to know. Exactly. That's why we ask. All right. You're wonderful. Thank you so much, and congratulations on the new book.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Don't you feel so motivated by Whitney, like anything is possible if you know think it through and get really intentional?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, let your values be a guide to how you want to not just spend your money, but spend your life. Whitney literally disrupted her entire life, her family downsized, and I don't have Whitney's personal financial info, but I'm guessing she does pretty well, so this is not really about income level. It's about allocation of your resources, whatever they are, to support the way you want to live your life and the role model you want to be for your family. In Whitney's case, it was about tithing to her church and other things that her family valued, like education and financial security and financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, get intentional about your career goals. You probably think you are, but be honest. Are you proactively doing something to remove barriers? Put yourself in your bosses' position and think about what they need to get you what you want. If you own a business, your clients are basically your bosses. Yeah, sorry, but kind of. Right? So come with solutions.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I wanted to work, for example, four days a week after having my son, I presented my bosses with the solution. My colleague, who was, fun fact, Manoush Zomorodi that many of you may know as the host of the Note to Self podcast, was also having her son. We gave birth, in fact, two days apart in the same hospital. Manoush agreed to be my Friday fill in. We presented a complete solution, and it was tough for the bosses to turn down something that was already good to go, especially with someone as wonderful as Manoush.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now Whitney is giving us the first chapter of her new book Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve for free to download. Just go to whitneyjohnson.com/ateam and you can get that download, so start there for free and then go pick up a copy of the whole book ASAP. Build an A-Team has tons of specific examples in it that will give you a lot of aha moments of how bosses think and need to think, and it is well worth the time you will invest in reading it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just a reminder, we are excited to start our once a month listener episode, so if you want to be a guest on Financial Grownup, email us with your money story and your money tip to info@financialgrownup.com. Make sure you are on our mailing list. Go to our website, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You'll get a pop up and you can sign up. Be in touch on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and on Instagram, at bobbirebell1. Whitney Johnson gave us so much to think about. Here is to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Leanna Haakons trusted a friend to sell her car so she could use the proceeds for tuition. But when she handed over the keys, he hit the road leaving her without the cash to pay for school. 

In Leanna’s money story you will learn:

-How Leanna planned to finance her college

-The two mistakes she made that destroyed those plans

-How she paid for college even though she did not recover the money she lost

-The role her dad played in the story

-The psychological impact of a financial betrayal on Leanna

-What happened years later when she finally confronted the person who stole her money

In Leanna’s money lesson you will learn:

-Be aware of the ways people can take advantage of you and your money

-Her warning about cybersecurity, identity theft and financial infidelity in relationships

-How to research a broker or financial advisor

-The importance of a paper trail

In Leanna’s Money tip you will learn:

-The link between healthy eating and building wealth

-Leanna’s healthy body healthy wallet theory

-Her top 12 dirtiest produce items

-When to buy organic even if it costs more

-Cooking techniques that will kill pesticides

-Apps she recommends to eat healthier

In my take you will learn:

-Specific ways to create a paper trail so you don't get caught in a bind like Leanna

-How to buy food based on the season

Episode links:

Get Leanna Haakons book Young Fun and Financially Free!!

 

Follow Leanna!

Twitter @Leannablackhawk

Instagram @leanna_hawk

website youngfunfree.com

website blackhawkfinancial.ca

 

Do your homework on brokers

FINRA/brokercheck

Places to get contracts

Legal Zoom

Nolo

Rocket Lawyer

 

Leanna recommended  the Flipp app for finding organic produce on sale

 

seasonal fruit guide from The Balance https://www.thebalance.com/the-cheapest-fruits-and-vegetables-month-by-month-1388345

 

To apply to be a guest on the show for our new once a month listener episode email us your

-money story

-money lesson

-everyday money tip

 

to info@financialgrownup.com

And we’ll be in touch if you are chosen!!

---

Transcription

Leanna Haakons:
It hurt. It hurt from the money side of it, and I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights, and I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But, you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to today's guest, I am really excited about an announcement that we are going to be making at the end of the podcast about something new that we're going to be doing here at Financial Grownup. I'm going to fill you in after Leanna Haakons' story. Stay tuned until the end. But let's talk about Leanna. She is the author of Young, Fun, and Financially Free, and a financial marketing expert. You see her all over the media. She had a great plan to buy a car, and then sell it in time to use the proceeds for tuition, but she learned a terrible lesson when a trusted friend betrayed her. Here is Leanna Haakons. Leanna Haakons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to have you, first of all I love your book Young, Fun and Financially Free. You're also not just an author, you are also a financial marketing expert. You have a lot of wisdom to share with us.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of that wisdom has to do with a story, the car, your first year of college, and thinking things were going to go one way, and then there was a surprise and not so pleasant ending. Tell us what happened.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I call this story my school of hard knocks story. My first year of college was a lot of learning about finance, and doing that whole traditional [inaudible 00:02:14] going through school. But it was also a school and year of hard knocks in the financial, the personal financial, world. I had gone to my first year of college in Toronto, and come back to the West coast, to Vancouver, where I grew up. I needed a car for the summer. I was working at a gym, and I needed to open up the gym at 5:30 in the morning. That was before public transit was running. I needed a car to get to the gym really early in the morning. I had been working four different jobs throughout the school year to be able to save up money so I could get my first car, which was this little blue convertible with white leather interior, it was so cute, it was awesome. I was just so excited to get this car.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had a plan for the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yes, I had this whole plan. I worked super hard during the school year, I saved up the money, and I had this friend of mine that I'd known throughout high school for years, and he's sort of a brother to me. He had said "Well, if you save up the money, I'll buy the car for you in cash, and then you can use it throughout the summer while you're working, and at the end of the summer I'll sell the car for you, because I have this car dealership, and get the money back for you and give it to you, so you can use the money to pay for your school when you go back to Toronto in September, when you go back to school again." I said "That sounds like a great plan, because I need the money for school expenses." I thought it would all work out great. Sounded perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically renting the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, well, effectively that was the plan was supposed to be. All did not go according to plan. I ended up giving him the keys at the end of the summer, after I'd used the car. I thought it was the perfect plan. It didn't end up working out that way. This led to a series of events where I had to learn-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, what happened? What happened? You handed back the key and he did not hand you the money, it's what I'm assuming.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I gave him the keys back to the car and he vanished. I never heard from him again. After-

Bobbi Rebell:
The car vanished too?

Leanna Haakons:
Of course, yeah. It had been about six or sevens weeks, and tuition was due, expenses were due, of course I was renting the apartment, the bills were coming in, I was freaking out. I ended up having to get a line of credit from the bank. I had to ask my dad to cosign for it. Some hard lessons were learned there. My dad was a big believer in not immediately bailing me out, which he could've done, but he wanted me to learn the hard lesson that you don't just give up your assets to people without having a paper trail. I had thought this person was a trusted friend of mine. I'd known him for many years. I thought he was someone that I could trust. You know what? You just don't give your keys and your assets to someone without having a paper trail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do the paperwork. Do you know even now, years later, whatever happened to him?

Leanna Haakons:
Well, this is another story.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a backstory? Did he owe people a lot of money? Was he in trouble? Did he have some reason even if we don't like it? At least something happened why he did this to you?

Leanna Haakons:
Along the way, probably about eight months after the fact, he did end up giving me some excuses, lies of excuses, very, very horrible excuses thus to why. He didn't give me the money, and apparently things had happened in his family, [inaudible 00:05:25] people had passed away that were in his life, family members and whatnot, which I found out years later they were still alive. It was a total con. This person knew immediately what they were doing. I ended up finding out from the insurance company that the car was transferred to someone else the week that I had given him the keys to the car, gifted to someone else with the value of zero dollars with the same last name as him. He knew what he was doing right off [crosstalk 00:05:47]-

Bobbi Rebell:
It was deliberate.

Leanna Haakons:
It was deliberate, 100%. I found that out eventually, and I did run into him actually about three years ago or so, maybe about 10 years later. That was a showdown. I'll tell you that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
I won't give you the details, but it wasn't pretty.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a little detail, now that you said that.

Leanna Haakons:
It didn't get physical, I'm not that kind of girl, but it was ugly that's for sure. But, I never got any of the money back. But it was definitely a ... it was a hard lesson for sure. I think $10,000 was around the amount that it was. When you're that young, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of hard work to save up that kind of money. It hurt, it hurt from the money side of it. I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights. I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me. Especially when I found out months after the fact that the car had been signed over to someone else. I knew it was deliberate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me, what is the lesson for our listeners?

Leanna Haakons:
There are so many ways that people can be taken advantage of, or at risk with your money, whether it's with your investment dealings, whether it's cybersecurity, identify theft, financial infidelity in relationships. There are so many ways that people need to be careful with their financial dealings. That can be within families and friendships as well as I experienced, how that all gets intertwined. There's lots of different things that you can do to protect yourself. I mentioned some of those things in my book, Young, Fun and Financially Free.

Leanna Haakons:
There's also things like FINRA's BrokerCheck. Whenever you're going to go into a new investment dealing, you're looking to working with a new financial advisor, you should go on to something called BrokerCheck, which is a FINRA program, and you can look to see whether that investment advisor has had any marks on their record, and see if there's anything on there that you should be aware of. Because you need to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings. The moral of my financial grownup story is don't ever give away your assets to anyone without having a paper trail, and that you really need to keep really good records of your own transfers, payments and passwords. You have to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings.

Bobbi Rebell:
On a lighter note, you brought a great money tip. But also an important thing that people do spend a lot of money on, and sometimes it's not necessary, you call it I think the dirty dozen?

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I'm a really big advocate as well that sound money decisions start with putting healthy food into your body, and making, I call it a healthy body healthy wallet decision. Spending consciously and something that they call in the healthy food world, the organic world, is their dirty dozen. There's sort of the top 12 dirtiest produce items that you purchase. If you want to be buying organic, and buying healthy food, and putting healthy food into your body, there are sort of the top 12 things that are most important to buy organic. If something like that is a priority to you, then you should be spending consciously on those items. A great way to do that is to download an app like one called Flipp, F-L-I-P-P.

Leanna Haakons:
You can download an app like Flipp and you can browse different grocery stores, supermarkets in your area and see what's on sale. Buy consciously. Make buying healthy organic food a priority, but do it smartly. Shop at a couple different stores in your area, do your research, and look at what's on sale at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's or the stores in your area. Find the things that are on sale, and beware of the things like the dirty dozen fruits and vegetable that should be bought organic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are those? Give us some examples of them.

Leanna Haakons:
Things like apples, carrots, things that you buy that you eat peel of mostly, those are the ones that have the pesticides, they're all covered in pesticides, those things you want to buy organic. Apples are always at the top of the list. Things like bananas that you take the peel off of, you don't really have to worry about as much, but you'll also notice that bananas in the stores as well, those are pretty cheap to buy organic, so you don't really have to worry about those as much. Anything that you are also cooking that you boil or something like that as well, you don't have to worry about as much because the boiling effect usually kills a lot of the pesticides. But, you can find that list anywhere, if you just google the dirty dozen, you'll be able to find that list anywhere. Then an app like Flipp can help you find organic produce, or organic meats and natural food items as well. Finding an app like that is really helpful to be able to get organic food on sale.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk quickly about your book, Young, Fun, and Financially Free. Thank you so much by the way, you sent me not one, but two copies, because we're going to give one away to a listener. You have to tag this episode in a post on Twitter and tag both me, I'm on Twitter @bobbirebell, and what's your Twitter handle?

Leanna Haakons:
Mine is @leannablackhawk.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tag us both and we will pick someone within a week of the episode dropping, and we will send one of you a copy of her book. Tell me more about the book.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. The book is a really easy read. It takes about five hours to get through, so you can do it all on a weekend. It's a nice cover-to-cover read, sort of the money 101 on anything from spending, saving, investing, insurance, just sort of an adult [inaudible 00:11:18] book 101.

Bobbi Rebell:
We need books like that.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. You know what? When I was young and I got my first job in finance was in the stock market doing investor relations when I was 18. I was really into this stuff naturally. I started trading in individual stocks when I was 18.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I really love this stuff. But you know what? Even for me, a lot of the books that I picked up, I wanted to be reading them, but even I wasn't getting through them cover to cover. I wanted to write something that people, that even if they weren't interested in this stuff naturally could read it cover to cover, get a few [inaudible 00:11:53] out of it, there's some funny money quotes in it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there's some very fun quotes in [crosstalk 00:11:58].

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I just wanted it to be light, and something that people could actually enjoy reading whether they're interested in this stuff or not, they can enjoy it, and it doesn't have to be something that they struggle to read, whether their parents or their friends are kind of forcing them, or asking them to read it or not. It's actually something enjoyable read.

Bobbi Rebell:
I enjoyed it, and I enjoy this conversation with you. Thank you for being my guest. Where can people follow you on social media?

Leanna Haakons:
I am on Twitter, @leannablackhawk, or Instagram, leanna_hawk, they can also find me on my website youngfunfree.com or at blackhawkfinancial.ca.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi, loved the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
This story really broke my heart, because we can't through life not trusting anyone. This was someone Leanna had known for a very long time, this was someone that was part of her community. Financial Grownup tip number one, unless you are willing and financially able to part with your money, get it in writing. There are plenty of places like LegalZoom, Nolo, and Rocket Lawyer, I'll leave the links in the show notes, where you can download forms and create simple legal documents for things like selling a car, or other assets. By the way, I don't have any affiliation with any of these companies, but those are some names that you can look at, they may be a good place to start and see if they are the right fit for your needs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Leanna talked about knowing where to spend your money on organic vegetables and fruits. I would add that you should also be thinking about what is in season and what is grown locally because it is in season. Because when something is not in seasons, they often source it from far away places around the world, because these days most of us can get any fruit or vegetable that we want any time of the year, because of being able to basically, as I said, source it from around the world. That doesn't mean that we should, the best deals and the quality often happens when we keep it simple and eat the foods that nature wants us to eat right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
In April, here are some names, ready? Artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, lettuce, mushrooms, pineapples, radishes, rhubarb, and spring peas. I'm going to leave a link to a calendar and the article from the balance that I grabbed those names from in the show notes, it also has every month of the year so you can go through that article from the balance and look up what fruits and vegetables are best for what month of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now the time for the big announcement. We have been hearing from a lot of you wanting to share your Financial Grownup stories, your lessons, and of course creative money tips. We're going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, we're going to keep it simple, see how it goes, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. I'm so excited to hear from you guys and bring all of you our first listener guest.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is the Leanna Haakons episode of Financial Grownup. Subscribe if you have not already. Help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show and sign up for a mailing list, so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Leanna's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Deborah Owens, aka America’s Wealth Coach  and creator of WealthyU literally drove down the value of her car,  and actually owed money at the end of her lease. She admits she didn’t even know the difference between owning and leasing a car. 

In Deborah’s money story you will learn:

-How Deborah found out she owed money on her car at the end of her lease

-Why Deborah made the decision to lease a car based solely on one piece of information

-The questions Deborah wished she had asked when she got the car

In Deborah’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she has applied the lessons from the first car she had to every future car she has owned or leased

-How she pays for and how long she now drives cars- and her advice for others

-What she learned about where it is best to finance a car

-Her car buying negotiation tips

In Deborah’s Money tip you will learn:

-How to assess big purchases like cars

-What to look for and what to ask when making those decisions

-Why car buyers need to look at more than the monthly payments

-The price of extended lease and loan terms

In my take you will learn:

-Why you need to read not just the fine print but all the print. 

-Specific techniques others will use to get you to sign something without reading it first. 

-The importance of paying attention to how long a loan is, and how you can save money with a shorter loan

Episode Links

Follow Deborah Owens!

Instagram @iamdeborahowens

Twitter @deborahowens

Facebook @deborahowenspage

YouTube Owens Media Worldwide  

Deborah Owens website https://deborahowens.com/

WealthyU

  

Loan calculator links

Bankrate

NerdWallet

Dave Ramsey

 

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Transcription

Deborah Owens:
I went over the mileage and then when I turned it in, they ding me on the mileage, they ding me on the wear and tear, and so I ended up owing them money and then I didn't have a car.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, this is a story about learning to read. As in read what you are signing and understand what is in the document. Sounds pretty basic but I think if we get a little honest here, we're all going to admit that we don't read everything we sign. I mean, good for you if you do. I own a condo, for example, I admit at the closing we sat there for hours signing endless documents, I did not read them all, I trusted my attorney so I'm guilty on that one, hopefully everything is fine, seems okay for now. Deborah Owens is known as America's Wealth Coach and she is the creator of WealthyU. She is also someone that we are going to learn a lot from. Here is Deborah Owens. Deborah Owens you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the program.

Deborah Owens:
It's such a pleasure to be here Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am so glad to have you here. First of all, your moment that you're going to talk about is a good one and a dilemma that so many people have these days, but before we get to that, I want to ask you to tell us a little bit more about your new project. Because we met when you were doing a radio show but now you are focused fully 100% on WealthyU.

Deborah Owens:
Yes, I am. My journey has been quite the journey in that I really started out in the financial services industry as an advisor and then went on to be in management. And I was previously with a very large company, Fidelity Investments but it is through that experience that I really found what I was really good at. And that was demystifying the financial markets and making it easy to understand for the layman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So tell us about WealthyU.

Deborah Owens:
So, WealthyU is an extension of that. It was really taking what I loved to do and that was educate people and give them insight around investing and now WealthyU allows me to scale that competency.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us about your money story that you brought with you because it has to do with a very common decision that so many of us make when it comes to how we're going to get where we're going, our cars.

Deborah Owens:
Yes. Well, as I reflected on this, I believe that the worst financial decision I ever made was to lease a car. Like many people, I was young and I wanted to get off of that. I had this really kind of hootie Mustang that one of my cousins was so angry for me buying because it was a stick shift and when you're learning that's the worst thing you can buy. But long story short, I had a friend he worked at a dealership and he said, you can get this great-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no, it's an old friend's story. Okay, go on. Sorry.

Deborah Owens:
That great car for a little bit of money that you can afford. I fell in love with this wonderful little 200 in excess and it had a computer in it and it talked and it had everything you could possibly imagine. And then two years later when I turned that car in-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Did that you were releasing it, not buying it? Did you fully understand?

Deborah Owens:
All I loved about-

Bobbi Rebell:
You just knew the monthly payments?

Deborah Owens:
Yeah, I loved the monthly payments. I mean, all I was focused on was could I afford this each month, which is how most of us are sold cars that way or even our mortgages are sold that way. So, I could afford it, so I didn't really care. I didn't really think about what would happen when I wanted the next car. And so of course I decided two-year lease and I went over the mileage and then when I turned it in, they ding me on the mileage, they ding me on the wear and tear and so I ended up owing them money and then I didn't have a car. And so I was right where I started before I got the car. And that taught me a very good lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So, just to be clear, so not only did you not have a car at the end of the two years. I think a lot of people don't realize. They think if you lease a car, yes you lose out on owning the car at the end of the lease but you actually owed money to the dealer. Can you just explain how that worked?

Deborah Owens:
So, when you lease a car, you have to stay within a certain number of miles each year.

Bobbi Rebell:
So that is something in the contract that you didn't know to look for and therefore didn't read. So, people if you're going to lease the car, you need to look for it and know what it is, right?

Deborah Owens:
Yes. And make sure ... Of course, when they ask me what the estimated mileage that I would have per year, I didn't know what to tell them. I said, "Well what's the minimum amount?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the lesson that you want to share with our listeners about this money story?

Deborah Owens:
Well, the moral to the story was, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. The lesson I learned from that really was A, I really wanted to minimize car payments and I wanted to own that car when I was finished with it. So, since then every car that I have purchased has not been brand new, I've either paid for it in cash or put a large down payment on it and I have driven my cars a minimum of 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And you read the contracts too now.

Deborah Owens:
Absolutely. Know what you're getting into. And the other lesson that I learned, rarely do I finance a car through a dealership. Typically, I'm going in, I've already called my credit union to figure out what is the best loan terms I can get and I go in. I don't tell them I'm not going to finance through them but once I've gotten the price that I feel I want, then I tell them thanks I'll have my credit union call you and we'll seal the deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sure they're thrilled.

Deborah Owens:
Well, the less they know the better.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get a personal finance tip from you Deborah Owens.

Deborah Owens:
The tip that I have for anyone is when you make any kind of financial decision, really look at the long-term impact of that decision. And so the example that I would give, if we were to look at that car, don't just look at what your monthly payments are going to be, look at the total terms of the loan and based on the information that they're giving you, what is the overall cost of the car? What are you paying to own it. I think so often, we're sold things based on the monthly payment and we don't really recognize the overall cost of that financial decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
So always actually run the numbers and think about whether it fits into your long-term goals.

Deborah Owens:
Absolutely. Count the cost is the point I'm making. If you count the overall cost, it's going to cause you to really think about that decision. For example, if you're buying a $20,000 car and let's say you're financing it even at 4%. And what we're seeing is that the way people are qualifying for more expensive and luxury cars is they're extending the payments. The average term used to be four years, now the average term of a car has gone up to six or seven years and some people are paying upwards of 7 or $800 a month. The cost of extending a loan from four to seven years is huge and you're paying thousands of dollars. And the tip there is typically, if you have to extend the term of a loan beyond four years on a car, you probably can't afford it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Truth spoken. All right, and we'll all keep looking out for WealthyU and that app coming and you can check it out on Kickstarter.

Deborah Owens:
Thank you so much Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I liked this topic because it related not only to one of our biggest budget items, at least for many of us, which is a car or some mode of transportation, but also to anything that involves signing on the dotted line. Financial Grownup tip number one. We always hear, read the fine print. But Deborah admits not only did she not read the fine print, she didn't read any of the print. You also have to read the big print guys. Deborah wasn't even clear on whether she was buying or leasing, she was just all about those monthly payments and it does matter. We all think that way, can we afford the monthly payments. But it also pays to take a step back and think about what you're paying in total.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, she didn't even know whether she would be keeping the car at the end of the lease. She seems to think that she would have the car at the end of the lease and she was certainly taken aback by the fact that she owed money. She didn't really understand what she had signed up for and if she had, maybe she would not have gone over the mileage limit or she might have made sure that she paid a little more upfront and had a higher mileage limit. She would have had more leeway. Really, Deborah just wanted to get in the car, she wanted the keys and she was going to sign it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, anything you are signing, read it. Don't let someone rush you into signing something that you haven't read or aren't aware of what is in the document. So, for example, one phrase to look out for that someone might say to you is, it's all standard, it's what everyone signs, it's the same thing. But you know what? You're the one on the hook. So, especially in this case when you're buying a car, go through and take the time to read it, make them wait a moment, patience is key, it'll all be good but know what you've locked yourself into. And make sure that you're okay with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Think carefully about the length of a loan, how much time it involves. So Deborah talked about how car leases are getting longer. For homes, this is also happening. This standard has always kind of been 30 years, now some people even are getting 40-year loans. But as many financial experts will point out, if you can swing something like a 15-year loan, which will have bigger payments, you can not only cut the time you are making payments, so you'll feel good, you'll have no overhead of that big mortgage payment, you're also going to cut the total amount that you pay in interest and that ultimately will make the house or whatever it is that you bought cost you less. It brings down the total cost and it's a good thing if you can swing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to leave some links to loan calculators in the show notes and you guys can play around with the numbers that apply to your situation and figure out what would work for you. Friends, if you have not already hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming shows, please do so. Also continue to spread the word, tell your friends, share our posts on social media, share this episode on social media if you enjoyed it or other episodes. I'm loving the DMs that you guys are sending me and don't forget you can suggest future guests if there's someone you want to hear from, I'll try to get them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. And to learn more about the show and get on our newsletter, visit my website bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I hope you guys feel ready to make that big purchase with your eyes open after hearing Deborah Owens great story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

When Melanie Lockert and her business partner Emma Pattee launched the Lola Retreat in 2017,  profits were at the bottom of their list. So low they did not even try to get sponsors until just a few weeks before the event. What happened then was shocking. Plus a money tip for the luxury lover. 

In Melanie’s money story you will learn:

-The behind-the-scenes decisions that went into the launch of the Lola Retreat

-Why the creators of Lola prioritized content over profit

-How the last-minute decision to reach out for sponsorship took Lola from a money-losing venture into a profitable ongoing business

-Why they chose not to outsource as they were building the Lola Retreat

-The technique Melanie Lockert and her partner Emma Pattee used to attract sponsors to her first-ever Lola Retreat

In Melanie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of actually asking for what you want

-How to leverage your reputation to build a new business

-How positive thinking even in tough times helped Melanie achieve her goals.

-Melanie’s new approach to negotiation

In Melanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Where to get luxury beauty services at a fraction of the cost

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should aim high when asking for money

-How smaller,niche events can offer great marketing value for even the largest companies

-Ways to save money on services by going to students in places like cooking schools and design schools, in addition to the beauty schools that Melanie discussed

Follow Melanie!

Twitter @deardebtblog @LolaRetreat

Instagram @deardebt @lolaretreat

Facebook Melanie Lockert

Melanie’s Dear Debt blog

Get Melanie’s book Dear Debt

Learn more about lolaretreat.com

Fidelity.com

FinancialGym.com

Kristin Wong is at TheWildWong.com

Erin Lowry/Broke Millennial is at https://brokemillennial.com/

 

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Transcription

Melanie Lockert:
Something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event. It was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. You guys know that song, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets." Well, the reality is sometimes Lola has to actually ask for it. That is the irony of the story you are about to hear from Melanie Lockert. She is well-known from her blog and her book, Dear Debt, where she chronicled her feelings about the $81,000 of debt that she was saddled with. Melanie is also the co-founder of the Lola Retreat, and yes, the name was inspired by that song, because it is meant to be about women getting whatever they want. While the event is meant to teach attendees how to empower themselves financially, when planning her first conference, Melanie had to learn some lessons of her own in that regard. Here is Melanie Lockert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melanie Lockert, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Melanie Lockert:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
People know you from your Dear Debt blog, your Dear Debt book, and your newest project, which we will talk about more at the end of the podcast. Just briefly, what is Lola Retreat, because I know it's happening very soon.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah. Lola Retreat is a women and money event, and it is a weekend full of education and workshop and panels to empower women to rock their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted you to explain what it is because the money story that you're going to talk about has to do with it, and it has to do with year one, which was just last year, and how you've monetized the event and what you did right and what you maybe would do differently and are doing differently this time.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, totally. I had such a great money lesson last year. With the retreat, there was so much going on in regards to programming and attendees, and I was so focused on getting the content really wonderful and making sure that we got the venue right, the speakers and everything that sponsors were not really on my mind. I really just wanted to make sure that it was the best even possible, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and when you say sponsors, you were just funding it purely on the admission that you were charging people?

Melanie Lockert:
Our ticket sales were really getting invested back into the event, so we didn't really know if we were going to make money on this event or not. Three weeks before the event, Emma, my colleague, talked to me, and she was like, "Melanie, we're going to breakeven right now, so if you want to make some money on this event, either we're going to have to cut back or be happy with breaking even." I was like, "I don't like either of those answers. I don't want to cut back because this is our first event, and it needs to be super amazing, and I also want to make some money, even if it's just one dollar." I really needed just that symbolic metaphor that I made a profit, so I was like, "How am I going to do this?" I was like, "I'm going to approach sponsors. People sponsor events all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to approach sponsors, I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to go find some money." In the back of my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. I haven't contacted anybody about sponsorship money. It's too late."

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you guys discussed the concept of sponsors at all? Had it ever occurred to you before this?

Melanie Lockert:
We kind of did, but it was really at the bottom of our list. We really were just focused on making sure the programming was amazing and making sure all of the programmatic details were really in place.

Bobbi Rebell:
So just to be clear, it's not that you were trying and sponsors were rejecting, you just literally had not tried. Did you think about outsourcing it to somebody else, or it just slipped through the cracks?

Melanie Lockert:
It slipped through the cracks. It was something that we didn't really focus on at all. We didn't contact anyone about it until three weeks, and in the back of my mind, I was like, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. There's no way anybody's going to give us any money at this point it's too late." But I wanted to do it anyways just so I could cross it off my list and say that I did it, and be like, "Okay, well, I tried to get money. It didn't happen, whatever," but something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event, and so it was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you talk a little bit about how much money you got in sponsorships and maybe speculate what you think you may have left on the table had you tried earlier?

Melanie Lockert:
We did get several thousand dollars worth of sponsorships. I don't want to get into specifics, but I definitely know we did leave some money on the table.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made a profit of more than a dollar first of all, to be clear.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's excellent.

Melanie Lockert:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think you left money on the table?

Melanie Lockert:
I do think we left money on the table because, first of all, we did give sponsorships at a discount because it was so late, number one. Number two, there's only so much you can do in three weeks, so we didn't have really the time to foster that kind of outreach and sponsorship beforehand, and I think if we would've had more time to dedicate earlier on that we could've had more sponsorship money and really been able to fund the event in a better way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do differently in year two?

Melanie Lockert:
This year we've definitely worked on approaching sponsors earlier. I'm happy to say that we're going to be working with Fidelity on a welcome reception for Lola Retreat year two. I'm super excited about that. They are a wonderful company, and they've always supported women and money. We're definitely working with a lot of scholarship sponsors this year. That makes me super happy because the scholarship sponsorship is near and dear to my heart. Essentially people sponsor a lovely lady to come to the event who wouldn't be able to otherwise come, so they get to read over the scholarship applications and they get to pick who they think would be a good fit to come to the event. It's really interactive, it's really an affordable sponsorship too, and at the end of the day it's one less ticket that I need to sell, so we've been focusing on that a lot as well, which is fun for me, and I really enjoy that part of it.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, I think this year we've had kind of more time to focus and more outreach, and then really focus on big partners. We've loved to work with Fidelity this year and continue working with sponsors that really align with our values.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson now? I know that we are still a couple weeks away from Lola Retreat. What is the lesson for our listeners about this? What's the takeaway?

Melanie Lockert:
The lesson is that you should always ask, and you should really check yourself if you think there's no way that you can do something because in my mind, I had already made up the fact that, "Oh, no one's going to give me money. It's too late. It's three weeks before the event. Why would anyone take me seriously?" Mind you, it was scary because in year one, this was before the event, we had nothing to show for it. We had no photos, we had no testimonials, we just had a website essentially. We had nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also had your reputation. You had a very strong reputation, as does your partner.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did have that. That's a lot.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did have that, which is definitely helpful, but from an event standpoint we had nothing necessarily to show, "Here are the testimonials, here are what people said, here are photos, here's impressions from the social media from that weekend." We had nothing concrete to show, and so in my mind it was like, "No one's going to take us seriously. No one's going to give us money," and I just had already made up my mind, but I was so shocked kind of how easy it was. I mean, it wasn't super easy, but it wasn't that difficult either.

Bobbi Rebell:
People said yes.

Melanie Lockert:
People said yes more than they said no actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Melanie Lockert:
I think I was just so passionate about women and money and doing this event, and I think people could see the grit and the passion in my words, and they can understand the idea. People were willing to invest in that idea, and those initial sponsors, I'm so grateful for because they really believed in us and our idea from the beginning when we had nothing to show. I'm really grateful for them, and then it just proved to me, like what other areas of my life am I convinced that, "Oh, this isn't going to work out, or this wouldn't happen," but if I just try, maybe it will. Actually, this is a reoccurring lesson for me. I actually when I was a non-profit employee before becoming self-employed, I had never asked for a raise once. Not once. I'm so ashamed that I've never negotiated my salary until becoming self-employed, because as a self-employed person, you have to learn to negotiate or you will not survive. This is kind of a reoccurring money lesson for me is that I have to know what I'm worth, and I have to negotiate, and I have to ask, and really at the end of the day, the worst thing people are going to say is no. No one's going to laugh at your idea and say you're stupid and call you ridiculous and think, "Wow, you think you're something else," or "you think you're a bigshot."

Melanie Lockert:
No one's going to say that. They're just going to say, "No, we can't do that." It's really okay. I'm really trying to push my boundaries and figure out other areas of my life that I can push and really kind of change the game a little bit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you before we get to your money tip. In terms of the money, you made a few thousand dollars in year one. In terms of how much more you're going to make this year, can you give me some idea of how the results changed when you were more purposeful in asking for sponsorships?

Melanie Lockert:
That's a good question. That's still TBD because we still have a lot of expenses that are going to be in the queue in the next coming weeks, but projecting right now it looks like hopefully double what we made last year, which would be really amazing, but like I said, we're not totally sure because there are a lot of last minute expenses that come up towards the end. We will see how everything shakes out, but I'm feeling pretty good about everything right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your money tip because this one is brilliant, and I never thought of this. This is really original, and it's something that can let us all have our luxuries and indulgences, but within our budgets, or even just to save money for other things that we want to do even if we're not on a tight budget, so it's nice to spend a little bit less for luxuries in life. Do tell.

Melanie Lockert:
Totally. Yeah. My money tip is to go to a beauty school for haircuts, pedicures, manicures, or massages or facials. When I was paying off debt, I didn't really have extra money to do anything, but I still wanted to treat myself at least once a year to something, especially when I hit a big debt milestone, right? I found this beauty school in Portland, and the rates were so insanely cheap because all of them were students, and before you get scared, they do have kind of more professional level people there working alongside the students to make sure they don't mess up. I remember I paid like $35 for a pedicure, a manicure, and a facial.

Bobbi Rebell:
Total.

Melanie Lockert:
Total, and I'm pretty sure the school had a policy that you couldn't tip either because it was a school, so it was super affordable. It was really affordable. My money tip is to find a local beauty school in your area and see what services they offer. It could be much, much cheaper and at a fraction of a cost, and at least in my personal experience, it was wonderful. If you have a specific person that you love or specific things then maybe that's not necessarily the best tip for you, but for me, the services were completely comparable and totally worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk about the Lola Retreat. It is in my hometown, New York City, this year.

Melanie Lockert:
Yay, I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, it's going to be at the Financial Gym, so Shannon McLeigh, the CEO and founder of The Financial Gym is one of my best friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she was on the podcast last week.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, she is amazing, and she has graciously agreed to host us in New York city, so Lola Retreat is at The Financial Gym April 27th through the 29th, and we are going to have sessions on how to pay off debt, how to get started with investing, how to level up your money with Kristin Wong. We also have Get Your Financial Life together with Erin Lowry. We also have some really interesting panels on how to prepare and deal with financial disaster as well as this concept of F Off Funds. I won't curse on the podcast, but it's especially important for women, especially right now for women to have a separate stash of cash to be able to say, "F you," in a situation that is not healthy, whether it's a workplace scenario, a relationship scenario. I think it's so important, so I'm really excited about the content that we have, and so excited to meet our lovely ladies. Yeah, I think it's going to be a wonderful weekend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I send people to sign up for Lola and to be in touch with you?

Melanie Lockert:
People can go to LolaRetreat.com and check it out. People can also find me at DearDebt.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Melanie Lockert, Lola Retreat. Can't wait to get there. It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Loved hearing how far Melanie and her partner have come in just one year of the Lola Conference. Here's my take, Financial Grown Up tip number one. Aim high. In year one, Melanie didn't think she would get any sponsors. She was shy just about reaching out to anyone at all, but here we are, just year two, just a second year, and she has incredible brand. She has Fidelity, guys. Sensei, Shopkick, and of course The Financial Gym, so don't write off a large company assuming they will only sponsor large events. They will find, often, a lot of value in smaller, targeted, specific events that have engaged and invested audiences as is the case with Lola.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two, be creative when it comes to treating yourself. If you're feeling deprived financially because you never get to do anything, you are much more likely to cheat, just like on a food diet. Melanie talked about going to beauty schools for things like manicures, massages, facials, all that good spa stuff, but sticking to the theme of students, you can also, for example, have a great meal at a cooking school, or if you're redoing your home or redecorating one of the rooms but have a limited budget, consider getting a student from a local design school involved, and just think, you could be someone's final graduation project. You never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, if you enjoyed Melanie's story, please hit the subscribe button, and if you have just a few minutes, leave a review on Apple podcast. They really do make a difference in getting the word out. I am also working on getting better at sending out my newsletters, so if you are not already on the list, get on the list. Just go to BobbiRebell.com. While you're there you can check out previous episodes by clicking on Financial Grown Up Podcast, and of course, be in touch. I'm on Twitter @BobbiRebell, Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. I hope you guys all head out and treat yourselves to some affordable indulgences just like Melanie, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When model and actress Victoria Summer got her big break first in Saving Mr. Banks, which starred Tom Hanks,  playing Julie Andrews, and then in Transformers 4, she was happy about the big upfront paycheck- but got really excited when she learned about residuals aka passive income. 

In Victoria’s money story you will learn:

-About her first big breaks as a hollywood actress

-How the pay system in Hollywood works

-The similarities between acting and modeling and other “gig” economy jobs

-How Victoria manages to balance one-time paychecks and residual income

-What her one big spurge was after that big paycheck

In Victoria’s money lesson you will learn: 

-How Victoria creates multiple income streams

-Why Victoria organizes her money in different bank accounts

-Her philosophy of acting like she is broke as a budget motivator

-Her goals to start a skin care line, a vegan handbag line and grow her production company

-Her strategies to promote herself as a brand

-The importance of top line income

In Victoria’s money tip you will learn:

-The danger of taking advice from the wrong people

-The warning signs to look for in advisors

-Why well-intentioned advice can often be off-base

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of choosing side hustles that complement, not contradict your primary career

-Why taking advice from well-meaning friends and relatives should be taken in context. 

-The best way to find the right people to give you career and business advice.

Follow Victoria!

VictoriaSummer.com

Twitter: @VictoriaSummer

Instagram: @VictoriaSummer

Facebook: Victoria Summer Entertainment

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Transcription

Victoria Summer:
Us as actors, we are personal brands. And all actors have to realize that you really are selling yourself. So for me it's work on promoting myself as a brand, and also, increasing the amount of income I can have from multiple streams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup but you know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So if you were to do a social media post about the gig economy, what kind of image would you use? Probably maybe an Uber driver, a millennial doing graphic design or coding or someone running errands at services like Task Rabbit.

Bobbi Rebell:
But take a minute to think about the business of acting. After the studio system ended, actors were in many ways pioneers in the gig economy. My guest today is a rising star. She is actress Victoria Summer, and she got her big break playing Julie Andrews in Saving Mr. Banks which starred, Tom Hanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
But the movie that gave her first really big payday, and key here is that it was more than just an upfront paycheck, was Transformers four. Here is Victoria Summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Victoria Summer, you are a financial grownup. So great to have you on the podcast.

Victoria Summer:
Thank you. Great [inaudible 00:01:43] to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
For those of you who don't know her work you will soon. She is a rising star, actually you've really risen, what am I saying. You were Julie Andrews in Saving Mr. Banks, you've been in Transformers Four, and you've also been with me on Bold TV, that's how I met you in New York City recently. And I'm so glad we're connecting on the podcast now.

Victoria Summer:
Me too, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of those roles, even though your big breakout hit was in that phenomenal role in Saving Mr Banks, your big money story actually has to do with really your biggest paycheck to date came from Transformers Four, and it was a big lesson to you, very eyeopening in something that is very relatable in what is becoming more and more of a gig economy, where we get sudden spikes of income. Tell us more.

Victoria Summer:
I actually remember when I booked that job, it was for me ... Even though I didn't say it in Mr Banks, it was the biggest job I'd ever booked, because it was such a big franchise, it was Michael Bay. I was going to be on set for three weeks with all these huge actors. And of course I knew, I was going to get residuals on that job. I was very excited about the passive income that I could make, not just the money that I got up front from being on set, but the passive income.

Victoria Summer:
At the time, I was living in a guesthouse, I'd not really been settled in LA that long, and it was just a big deal for me. So I thought, oh my God, wow, this big check upfront, three weeks of work which is a big deal for me at the time.

Victoria Summer:
So yeah, my lesson really was working out, how was I going to actually manage that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well tell me a little bit more about how it works, because people may not understand how the payments work in Hollywood, you get paid very sporadically, really only when you work right. So most movies you just get a set paycheck and then they're done, at least that had been your experience up to this point.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, but what happened to me on Transformers was they wanted me to be on set specifically for three weeks, so they bought me out for a three week period. And that was my deal, and then after that, once the movie aired, then I got residual income. So you get that four times a year. You get it quarterly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one of are the challenges as an actress is that, you have income that is completely unpredictable. How do you manage that?

Victoria Summer:
Completely unpredictable, because for me, I'm doing auditions day in day out, and unfortunately, although I wish I did, I don't get paid for additions. And auditions take up a huge amount of my time. And when I'm working say on a movie like Transformers, you have a lot of money all at once and you tend to think, oh my God, I'm rich. What am I going to do with this money, oh my goodness.

Victoria Summer:
So for me, I've had to be careful and learn how to strategize in order to make sure that for the downsides and the down periods that I have with no work, that I have money set aside.

Bobbi Rebell:
One quick digression question. Did you buy anything, any little splurge Victoria?

Victoria Summer:
I bought a dog.

Bobbi Rebell:
You bought a dog. That's a necessity in life okay. That's not a [crosstalk 00:04:44] splurge. That's the best and I know you had your dog with you in New York, so that's not a splurge. That is always allowed. We advocate pet ownership here, they're the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get your lesson though because, it's important for our listeners to understand how ... You have ways that you manage having such sporadic income, and a lot of it is psychological. So share with us your lesson from that story and really from being an actress and learning to deal with what is it many cases 'cause you don't always get residuals. And even the residuals, you don't always know what they're going to be. These sort of spurts of unreliable income. Which again freelancers, the gig economy, we can all relate.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, I mean with residuals you're absolutely right, you have no idea how much it's going to be. So whenever I get a check, it's always like oh, okay. But, you know, you can't predict that. So for me first and foremost is multiple streams of income, but also you know, when I do get these sort of big check windfalls, I make sure to put money aside. And honestly, from day to day, the best thing that works for me in my life particularly, is staying broke.

Victoria Summer:
I'm not saying poor, I'm saying convincing myself that I'm broke because I kind of ... For me as a person, I work very well on a highly necessity level. I tend to pull things in when I feel like I have to.

Victoria Summer:
So what I do is I have reserve bank accounts which are basically for future investments. So I move any money that's sitting around into these bank accounts to create passive income flows and also to use to set up other businesses. And so for me day to day, I do feel like I'm broke, and I work like I'm broke.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what kind of investments do you focus on?

Victoria Summer:
Well, for instance, I want to start my own skin care line, and I'm also wanting to start a vegan handbag line and that's important to me. Plus also my production company, I have to invest time in that. So that's really where my money goes is to start other businesses and to expand my brand really. I mean, honestly us as actors, we are personal brands, and all actors have to realize that, that you really are selling yourself.

Victoria Summer:
So for me it's work on promoting myself as a brand and also increasing the amount of income I can have from multiple streams.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's so smart and it's an interesting thing because, just like so many other businesses, the film business and the acting business has really evolved and is so much more driven by individuals and there's a lot of opportunity in that, but it also means that you have to be really smart about it. Yu have to be deliberate, as you are, and intentional, all those buzzwords.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, you do. You have to be really smart and honestly, I focus on income. Every day I'm looking at okay, where's my money, where can I go and get money at this point, where is my next paycheck coming from, and how can I get more money from the different areas that I work in, and how can I expand? So I really do focus on income more than anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so smart, and that also brings us to the money tip that you brought because that really has to do with believing in yourself.

Victoria Summer:
Yes. Absolutely. To me, it's interesting. I didn't grow up in the kind of family where they were working in the theater or they were working on movies. My dad worked in the mail room of a bank, my mom worked in a school as a secretary, so I come from a prime middle class family, and I was always told, cut your cloth according to your means, never use credit cards, don't take any risks, that kind of thin.

Victoria Summer:
Honestly, I just had to get educated on the finance for myself. I think my money tip would be, don't take advice and don't listen to people close to you who really don't understand your business, or don't understand the actual area of money. They probably haven't had very much money, and they give you advice on money, but they really have given up on money themselves. So for me, just be careful of who you actually take advice from, and get educated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, you have to own it yourself, which is what we're trying to do here at Financial grownup. So Victoria Summer, tell us where you can be found on social media, your website and what you're up to these days.

Victoria Summer:
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at Victoria Summer, on Twitter at Victoria Summer, and then on Facebook, Victoria Summer Entertainment. Then you can also, for more information go to my website victoriasummer.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
This has wonderful. Amazing advice, you are such a smart cookie my dear. I am so impressed with so many different things going on, and you're so smart with your money. I truly appreciate you joining us.

Victoria Summer:
Thank you very much for having me, it's great taking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I think we all learned a lot about the acting business and how erratic the paychecks can be, so it's definitely part of the gig economy. So here is my take, financial grownup tip number one, Victoria talked about her multiple income streams and her business aspirations, which at first had me a little bit concerned about whether she was really focused enough on acting. But then when I really thought about what she was saying, it did start to make a lot of sense, because she was looking towards businesses that were complimentary to her skill set, and her primary career as a model and actress.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for example, she wants to have a skincare line. That makes sense. she's got a background in modeling and she's beautiful. She also wants a vegan handbag line, and she of course has a production company. As a model and actress, that can make sense. If she were an accountant who wanted to start a skincare line, maybe it makes less sense. Not that it couldn't be done, but you don't really have the same kind of synergies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, Victoria talks about being wary of advisors that aren't successful in your field. Basically she's talking about well meaning friends and family that don't really understand the nuances of the business that you're in. Because, they have ties to us, sometimes the people closest to us have complicated motivations. For example, and it's well meaning, but a parent may advise a child to be more cautious in their career because the parent may prioritize security over risk, when maybe it takes risk to be successful in some careers, many careers. But especially something like acting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Instead, maybe try to find a mentor that is in the business that you are in or aspire to be in, and then get advice from them. You'll get a more experienced vantage point, and maybe without the baggage of being a stakeholder in your life. Now we want to ask something of you. If you liked this show, help us get the word out. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple podcast, i Tunes or wherever you want, or just share this episode on social media. Be sure to tag me and then I can share it on that platform as well, and I love it by the way. A lot of you guys have been DMming me and, telling me how much you like different episodes. That's awesome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Victoria maybe a glamorous Hollywood actress but I found a lot of her story actually pretty relatable, and very relevant to a lot of the universal themes in our lives, and I hope you got a lot of value out of the conversation as well, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Kristin Wong laughs about it now but she literally cried and wanted to drown her sorrows at TGI Fridays when an unexpected tax bill hit her out of the blue. She fesses up to Bobbi that it never occurred to her that she would not get a refund. Ironically, her money tip is one for the budget conscious foodie in all of us. 

In Kristin Wong’s money story you will learn:

-Why she did not pay her taxes when she started freelance writing

-How your tax responsibilities change when you switch from being an employee to being self-employed

-Why she owed money instead of getting her usual refund

-The benefits of having an emergency fund

-The emotional toll it took on Kristin

 

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big mistake Kristin made regarding money when she became a freelancer

-Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to taxes

-Kristin’s tips for managing major work changes

-How to find free resources online to manage and pay your taxes

-How to know when you need a professional for your taxes

 

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-The high/low method for restaurant spending

-The most expensive/biggest splurge meal Kristin has had

In my take you will learn:

-What happens if you send in your tax returns without payment

-What to do if you do not have the money to pay your taxes on April 17th

-Strategies to use when you set up a payment plan with the IRS

-Why you should avoid paying your taxes with a credit card

 

Episode links

Pickup your copy of Kristin Wong’s new book Get Money

The book website is at: https://thegetmoneybook.com/

Get Kristin’s downloadable worksheets at https://thegetmoneybook.com/worksheets/

Kristin Wong’s website is https://www.thewildwong.com/

Follow Kristin!

Facebook- (and join her private facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/thewildwong/

Twitter @thewildwong

Instagram: @thewildwong

Pinterest thewildwong

YouTube The Wild Wong

Other links:

IRS.Gov

TurboTax.com

Vanguard.com

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-if-i-cant-pay-my-taxes

https://www.irs.gov/payments/direct-pay

Cary Carbonaro

Stefanie O’Connell

Holly Hanson

Get Rich Slowly

JD Roth

---

Transcription

Kristin Wong:
So, I just cried. My now husband, who was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Fridays.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of "How to be a Financial Grownup", and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you and make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, spoiler alert, our guest Kristin Wong author of "Get Money" was crying because of something that happened to her at tax time. And I thought this would be a great time to hear her story about the time she, oops, forgot to pay her taxes. So her book, as I mentioned is called, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." It makes learning about money feel like a game, which she really could have used her own book at this time because it was not a fun time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've probably read Kristin's work in the New York Times, New York Magazine, Glamour, Life Hacker. Kristin got her start as a money writer at the fantastic blog, "Get Rich Slowly." This is a story you need to hear, especially right now at tax time. Here is Kristin Wong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Wong. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the show.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you for having me on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am loving your new book, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." Full disclosure, I'm only about two thirds of the way through, but I will be finishing it very soon. Great job.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's not easy to say something new in this space and you really did it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. And I've been writing about money for so long that it was kind of hard to say something new. So I really had to think about it for ... I had to take myself out of the money geek persona.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're not a geek. You're the cool money nerd.

Kristin Wong:
All right. I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're the cool friend, talking about money and we have cool stuff to talk about. Your money tip is super cool, but before we do your money tip and that's a teaser for all the foodies out there, we're going to do your money story, which is so appropriate, because this is going to come out in April, which is our favorite month. Not. Because we talk about taxes and your money story is about the fun world of taxes. Tell us, Kristin.

Kristin Wong:
Oh man, I have a crazy tax story. When I first started freelancing six or seven years ago, I was full time freelancing and everything was going fine. I wasn't making that much money because I was new at it. I had no idea that you had to pay estimated quarterly taxes. It's just not something that I paid attention to. I was so used to having an employer take out taxes for me. So in April I decided to do my taxes, which usually I liked doing taxes because-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you were probably getting refunds. You were getting refunds when you worked for an employer.

Kristin Wong:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this was the time you would be getting like a bonus.

Kristin Wong:
Right. So I was looking forward to all this money coming in, thinking what I was going to do with it. But nope. I had a $5000 tax bill. And some of it was penalties but it was mostly, I hadn't paid any of my taxes. And the fact that my taxes were only $5000 should tell you that I wasn't making that much. I had an emergency fund, thankfully and it just depleted my emergency fund.

Kristin Wong:
I remember, I had just moved to Los Angeles and I was proud of myself for finding a job here and I was a writer and I was making it at work, and I had an apartment, and I just remember-

Bobbi Rebell:
You were very grown up except for one thing.

Kristin Wong:
Except for the taxes. Well I just cried. I remember it was a Friday night-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you just literally cry? You actually cried?

Kristin Wong:
I cried. I did because it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there witnesses?

Kristin Wong:
My now husband, was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Friday that night.

Bobbi Rebell:
And spend more money.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. I was like, I want to do it. Let's go to TGIF Friday.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you have everyone helping you? Did you just go to a tax preparer? What happened?

Kristin Wong:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
How was this all discovered?

Kristin Wong:
I just wasn't prepared at all for it. I thought, you know I've always been when of those type of people, I'll just say yeas and figure it out later. And that can definitely work in my favor, but this time it did not. I was unprepared for the freelance life and the massive change. Like how different it is financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so let's talk about the lessons. What are the lessons, besides know whether you're paying taxes or not.

Kristin Wong:
Right. I'd say the lesson is just don't ignore money. Like I just ignored what it took to be a freelancer financially and I ignored all of that. And I think a lot of people do that. We don't like to think about money. We don't want to figure out the practical side of things. So we just kind of sweep it under the rug. I think a lot of people even take it further. They don't look at their budget or they don't look at their credit card statements, and that really was a game-changer for me because this was pre-writing about money days.

Kristin Wong:
But I really realized, nobody is going to care abut your finances. Nobody's going to hold your hand and walk you through it. And if you don't take care of it the somebody else will. Well if you don't care of your money somebody else -

Bobbi Rebell:
Somebody else will take it, somehow.

Kristin Wong:
They'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
It there like a checklist of things? So number one would be, be aware of taxes that you may owe. And if you're just starting out the truth is, you may earn so little money that you, especially with the new tax system, under a certain amount you may not even owe taxes. But you just need to figure out if you do.

Kristin Wong:
Right. And I would say, if you're going through a major work change like that, where your status is changing from full time to freelance, if you can afford it, go to a tax preparer and have them kind of walk you through the process. But at the very least, always research what your financial situation is going to look like if you have a major life change, especially when it comes to taxes. There are a lot of free resources on line, but I would say if you can afford it you certainly want to go to a professional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there some resources you can recommend?

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. The IRS.gov website is actually pretty great. They have a lot of resources for freelancers and independent contractors and that sort of thing. And Turbo Tax, their website actually has a lot of useful information. So I would check out those two resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go to the money tip because I teased it a little bit earlier. I love this Kristin. This is one for the foodies.

Kristin Wong:
Yes, so it is ... My money tip is the high, low method for restaurant spending. And I actually read this tip from a restaurant critic on line. And he or she, I don't remember, this was a long time ago, basically said don't go to any middle of the road restaurants. Save your budget. Spend it mostly on hole-in-wall, cheaper restaurants because they are usually mom and pop owned and the food is really good and they stay in business because the food is really good.

Kristin Wong:
You're going to save money going to those cheaper restaurants and then use that to splurge every now and then on a really high-end, nice restaurant that's known for their cuisine. So his or her tip was, basically just avoid any middle of the road restaurants. And so if you are going to go out six times a month on restaurants, go to the cheaper places five times and then save your sixth splurge restaurant meal for a nicer high end restaurant.

Kristin Wong:
The idea is, those middle of the road restaurants ... I mean there are some exceptions to this. This is a generalization, but they're usually like, the food is very mediocre, and your not getting the most bank for your buck.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Kristin Wong:
But you will get the most value from the high, low method.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And you're usually just avoiding cooking at home because you just don't feel like it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, let me ask you ... So you talk about splurge. What is the most you've ever spent on one meal out, Kristen?

Kristin Wong:
Oh my gosh. I've told this story before but I ... I still I feel guilty about this but I spenT $40 on a steak once. And I don't know what I was thinking. I think that I had been ... My lifestyle-

Bobbi Rebell:
So the entrée was $40? The entrée. But that's not that bad.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Obviously there were other things to the whole meal.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you think the whole meal cost you, then?

Kristin Wong:
I was with a friend so we split it. But it was probably like $50, $60 for one person. And I had never spent that kind of money before. That's the thing. I grew up in a lower income household so $40 on steak. If my parent found out about that, they would slap me silly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You haven't spent that much time in New York City, but maybe that's a good thing. New York City is not very budget-friendly. All right. We are never going out for steaks together. We are going to have some plain, simple coffee.

Kristin Wong:
I like the steaks, though.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Maybe we'll make steaks at home. That sounds like a good plan. All right. Thank you so much. I want to talk about your book quickly before I let you go. "Get Money." This is a good book. It is a paperback. I now carry it with me because it's like little nuggets of money tips and little things like what you just said about the restaurants. So many brilliant musings on money. Tell us a little bit more about it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. Well, it's a very actionable and interactive book so there area lot of exercises and there are a lot of assignments in it. You have to do work when you're reading it, so I would read it with a pen or pencil in hand. You can also go on line. There is an accompanying website to the book, called Thegetmoneybbok.com or you can find worksheets in like video tutorials for it, because I think sometimes with these money concepts, somebody tells you how to open a retirement account.

Kristin Wong:
And you're like, okay that sounds well and good when I'm reading it but when I go to the Vanguard website I have no idea how to get started. So I actually show you in some video tutorials exactly what you need to do to get started, so you have no excuse not to get your money in order.

Bobbi Rebell:
And there's a lot of value out of this book, because you quote so many of my favorite people, Cary Carbonaro. You quote Stephanie O'Connell, Holly Hansen, so many brilliant money minds are in here. It's great, so congratulations on the book. Where can people find you and what else are you up to?

Kristin Wong:
I am at the WildWong.com, is my website and all my social media handles. And I just sort of write about, of course personal fiance, but also resources for freelancers and that sort of thing too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. And your background, by the way is so cool. You were a movie writer, a TV writer. So interesting.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, how did you fall into the money stuff?

Kristin Wong:
Well I was actually writing full time freelance for about dating and relationships when I started writing about money. I actually started writing at "Get Rich Slowly', J.D. Roth's blog. I have always been fascinated with money. That's a longer story. But I would read his blog every morning and then one day he said that he was hiring writers, so I just applied to be a freelance writer and I started kind of blogging about ...

Kristin Wong:
Like I would write essays about my own dysfunctional relationship with money and I really just, I figured out how to get money through just writing about it for five years. So I wanted to share that knowledge with other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we appreciate it. Kristin Wong, thank you so much.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much as we hate to deal with it, taxes are a reality of being a financial grownup. Here's the thing. Kristin was able to contain the damage of not filing quarterly taxes as a freelancer because she had the cash in an emergency fund. So great. There were some consequences, but all things considered, Kristin made the problem go away. In reality that is not always the case. In fact, I'm going to bet, very often it's not the case, so what do you do if you don't have the cash?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, first of all, financial grownup tip number one. No matter what, you still have to file the paperwork on time. Now you can file an extension if you just want to procrastinate and not even figure out what you owe. But you got to figure out some kind of idea, because they're going to start penalizing you and you're going to be paying interest on what you owe. So when you do pay it, it's going to be so much more.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money is due April 17th. Now, as Kristin said, the IRS.gov website can very easily walk you through all of this. They even have an IRS direct pay area of the website, where you can easily pay tax estimates. I'm going to leave a link to that in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Okay, let's say you literally do not have the cash. You need to get in touch with the IRS and you need to get on a payment plan. They can even give you extensions if you literally don't have the ability to pay anything right now. I'm going to give you a phone number to the IRS. 1-800-829-1040. 1-800-829-1040. Call them up, They will work out a plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be nice. The whole point is you're talking to a human being. You can be reasonable. They want to get their money and they want to get it consistently in a way that you're going to be able pay. So they're going to be flexible. In fact, they can often waive the penalties. Not only the interest on the money you owe, but the penalties. So ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do not recommend putting it on a credit card. In almost every case, unless you hae a 0 interest credit card, in almost every case the IRS, even with penalties will be less than the interest on a credit card. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and consider writing a review on Apple Piecasts, aka iTunes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It helps the show get discovered so we can share more money stories and tips and be in touch. On Twitter, I'm @BobbiRebell. On Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. And to learn more about the program and to get on our mailing list for bonus content and more go to BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGownuppodcast. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with writer and money expert Kristin Wong. Get her book, "Get Money" and here's to us all getting always bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Trade Bodge and her partners set out to build a business- that they knew was challenging before they even started. But they focused on funding, building a strong foundation, and learning from the past mistakes. 

 

In Trae’s money story you will learn:

-The market opportunity Trae and her partners saw when they created ThreeCustom.com

-The challenges the new business faced, including the difficulty of scaling up

-The creative way they funded the business

-Why Trae left the business

In Trae’s lesson you will learn:

-The challenge in finding the balance between waiting until a business is “ready” and moving forward while there is the most excitement

-Why she believes entrepreneurs should pay as much attention to how time their launch, as how they spend their funds

-Specific ways to research markets ahead of time, and during the early stages of a business launch including trade shows and how to get competitor insights. 

-How to use time to your advantage

In Trae’s money tip you will learn

-Where to find money, that is already yours, to fund your startup

-How they each saved $25,000 to put towards their business

-How to avoid feeling deprived when saving for a goal

In my take you will learn:

-The realities of start-up life

-What to do when you just aren’t that into your startup

-Tips to make sure you remain financially solvent even as an entrepreneur with a startup

 

Episode Links

Threecustom.com on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThreeCustom

Traebodge.com

Follow Trae!

• Twitter https://twitter.com/truetrae

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/traebodge/

• Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Truetrae/

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Transcription

Trae Bodge:
We had the best intentions. We wanted to get out there and start this business. We found out that customization is very difficult to scale, and so any business who has attempted to do bespoke or customized products can attest to this. It's very, very difficult to grow a business like that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. This is an episode about starting something really big, being all-in, and then finding out maybe it's not for you and having the strength to, well, exit gracefully. My guest and her partners were off to the races with what seemed like a genius idea: blend customer colors to replace makeup products that were no longer available. But, while the business is still chugging along, Trae Bodge left and is now a smart shopping expert that you can see all over the media and with her column in Women's Day. Here is Trae Bodge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trae Bodge, smart shopping expert, you are a financial grownup. Welcome.

Trae Bodge:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations, by the way, are in order for your new Women's Day column.

Trae Bodge:
Oh, thank you so much. I'm really excited to be partnering with Women's Day as their financial expert. I'm covering everything from best buys month-to-month, how to maximize your tax return, how to save on your Amazon purchases, all sorts of things that savvy shoppers need to know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. We will definitely put a link to it in the show notes. I'm excited to hear your money story because, first of all, it has to do with the beauty business, it has to do with being entrepreneur, and it has to do with how much money do you really need to start a business? Do tell.

Trae Bodge:
Many years ago, two friends and I thought that we wanted to start a beauty business that specialized in the reproduction of discontinued colors. This is something that one of my partners and I had done for another brand that came on to the scene, blew up really quickly, and then fizzled out really quickly. Because, we found out, is that customization is very difficult to scale, and so any business who has attempted to do bespoke or customized products can attest to this. It's very, very difficult to grow a business like that.

Trae Bodge:
But we had the best intentions. We wanted to get out there and start this business and custom-blend products for women, and men, of course, and makeup artists. We started, for the first couple of years, creating our plan, saving our tax returns, saving our bonuses very-

Bobbi Rebell:
Saving the refunds from the tax returns.

Trae Bodge:
Yes, yes. Saving our tax refunds, and planning along the way. What this business was about was really about answering a problem that many women had, which was when you have a favorite product, like your favorite eye shadow or your favorite lipstick, and then that product is continued, we set out to reproduce those products as close as we could to the original color and texture. Then we kept that formulation on file so you can reorder it any time. Now, I [crosstalk 00:03:33]-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Trae Bodge:
It's such a helpful process for so many people because you finally find that thing that works, and then suddenly, you can't get it anymore. Forgive me, I do sometimes speak about it in the past tense because I'm no longer with the business. The business is still alive and well. You can find it at threecustom.com. My two partners are still running the business, but about four years ago, I decided that I needed to move on and do new things, which is where I landed as a smart shopping expert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me, what is the lesson from that story? What is the takeaway?

Trae Bodge:
For me, and in terms of being a financial grownup, when we set out to start our business, there's this excitement and energy about getting the business out there right away. My recommendation to all potential entrepreneurs out there is I know you want to get out there and you want to get out there now; however, the time that it takes to save the money or to crowd-fund, for instance, if you're going to do Kickstarter or Indiegogo, or if you're going to look for venture capital or money from family and friends, the time that it takes to gather that money is time that works for you. You need the time to do your market research, to attend trade shows, to interview people and really flush out what you want this business to be because there are so many brands out there. How are you going to differentiate and set yourselves apart from the competition?

Trae Bodge:
For me, I would say to people, just take your time. Don't get frustrated by how long it takes to start a business, and use that time to your advantage.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something tangible that people can literally do today.

Trae Bodge:
This is a tip that I think can apply to many things, whether it's going to be starting a business or paying off your student loans or any other debt is to take money that may feel like a windfall, and rather than spending it and going on a luxurious trip or buying a fancy handbag or even doing a renovation in your apartment, save that money. Save that money towards your business.

Trae Bodge:
What my partners and I did over the course of about two years is every tax refund we got, every bonus that we received, and then any extra money from if we inherited a little bit of money or anything extra like that, we did not take that money for ourselves. We put it in the bank. The three of us each saved over two years. We were in our early 20s at the time. We each saved $25,000. For the three of us, we were able to start our business with $75,000 after couple of years.

Trae Bodge:
That would be my money tip is that money that feels like something extra, instead of going to town with it and spending it, put it away towards your goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it's hard because you feel like it's found money.

Trae Bodge:
Yeah. It does. It is hard. It almost feels like you're on a diet. It's like you have that diet and you have the rules in front of you and everything you're supposed to eat and not eat, and you really, really, really want to eat that thing that you're not supposed to eat. To me, it's the similar feeling. You see that money, cross your hands, and you so want to go out and enjoy it and treat yourself because especially with, say, a bonus from work, it's like that's being given to you as a congratulations for work well done, and you want to enjoy that, but instead, put that away. You'll save money so much faster than you think you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trae Bodge, thank you so much. Wonderful story. Wonderful advice. We will all be checking out your column in Women's Day and visiting your website, which is traebodge.com, right?

Trae Bodge:
Yes, it's traebodge.com or truetrae.com, and definitely follow me on social. I'm truetrae or traebodge. I hope to see you all there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you.

Trae Bodge:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved Trae's story because it highlights the gray areas of startup life. Sometimes, a business is solid, but maybe not the future that you want. It's not a bad thing. It's just not your thing. Financial grownup tip number one: Leaving something that isn't right for you is like leaving a relationship with someone that you are just not that into. You could stay. It will probably be okay, but by staying with something that isn't for you, you're also not finding the business or career that is right for you. It's the missed opportunity cost. Don't get caught up in sticking something for fear people judging you or an idea that you are not a quitter. It's not about the exit. It's about what you find behind the door that you open as you leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: As Trae says, whenever you start something new, don't rush in. Take the right amount of time to build yourself enough runway that you can be intentional when you do ramp up. You don't want to be scrambling for cash to fill an order. Be purposeful. Spend the time before you spend the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you have not already, hit that subscribe button so you won't miss any episodes, and be in touch on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course, visit my website bobbirebell.com and sign up for our mailing list so we can keep you posted on what's going on at the show, and of course, spread the word. Tell a friend. Thank you also to Forbes for naming Financial Grownup as one of five podcasts that are getting it right. That was really cool. I hope you all enjoyed this episode with smart shopping expert Trae Bodge and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach. 

 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn

-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money

-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing

-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors

-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets

-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors

-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective

-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy

-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company

-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round

In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:

-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors

-How she got help from other entrepreneurs

-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark

-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important

-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company

In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:

-Negotiations can be about more than just cash

-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.

-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them

In my take you will learn:

-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture

-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches

-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful. 

Episode links:

TheMuse.com

Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work

Follow Kathryn and The Muse!

Instagram @kminshew @themuse

Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules

Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse

https://www.facebook.com/minshew

Kathryn Minshew, Co-Founder and CEO of The Muse shares her rebound from 148 investor rejections to eventually raising $30 million for her startup. Listen to her episode of the Financial Grownup podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast-- Created using PowToon -- Free sign up at http://www.powtoon.com/youtube/ -- Create animated videos and animated presentations for free.

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Transcription

Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?

Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.

Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.

Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.

Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.

Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?

Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?

Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.

Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.

Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.

Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.

Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.

Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.