Are you working harder than ever and not getting paid what you are worth? Claire Wasserman explains why so many of us get short-changed and shares 5 specific strategies that will upsize our income and compensation. Plus, Claire reveals the behind the scenes story of AOC’s decision to run for political office and her role in the gutsy move. 

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Claire’s 5 Tips For How To Get Paid More!

Tip #1-

Talk to real people about their salary. You could do research on Glassdoor all day, all night, it's just not going to be as accurate as it would be if you talk to a real person. Remember, every single person wants and needs money, and every single person is trying to figure out how much to charge. So, if you were the first person in your friend group to talk about money, you are actually doing them a favor.

Tip #2-

Have three numbers. I think too often we go into a negotiation with only one number prepared, or maybe even no numbers prepared and we just completely go off of what they say. This is a big problem because, first of all, we don't know if they're going to be giving an offer that is the highest offer. Oftentimes, it really is just a starting point. They're providing a number with the expectation that you will counter. So, what's your counter? And the counter should be at the very top of the range that you have researched. Then you have to have a comeback. Don't just stop after the first back and forth with them. Your second number, it's going to be the middle of the range. And the last number is your bottom line, and you hope to never have to get there. So start with the top number, they're going to counter, then you're going to counter, and hopefully, you get to some kind of compromise. I mean, that's the whole point of a negotiation is for both people to get to a place where they feel like they've gotten something.

Tip #3-

Talk about the whole picture. And this is especially important now when people are negotiating during a time of economic instability. You can negotiate for things other than money, things that bring you value, but maybe don't cost the company that much or nothing at all. So this could be career development, commissions, starting a signing bonus. If you're moving, moving costs, more vacation days. I mean, really anything that you think that you want, you just need to prioritize it, because you can't ask for everything.

Tip #4-

Talk about your value add. I think that's everything. The market research part is easy, but make the case for yourself. It's really about, "Here is how I've impacted the bottom line at this company." If you were in sales, or in other positions where it is just obvious how you've brought in money, lucky you. But for other folks, you need to do a little bit of sleuth work. So maybe it's, how much time did you save the company? Maybe you took over for another person who was on paid family leave, or your job really ballooned into multiple roles. You created efficient processes with your team. Discounts with vendors? Maybe you were able to negotiate. Saved time, saved money. That is making money for the company. Even things about how you've been a leader for your team. You've brought enthusiasm and energy. Maybe you've worked there for a long time, and you've become a mentor. This is helping the company save money, because it's helping people continue to work there. It is expensive for them to lose employees. It is expensive for them to find new employees. Have testimonials too. You should be tracking your wins. You should be forwarding your wins. When you have great feedback, let's say from a client, go ahead and forward it to your boss. Their success hinges on your success, so this is actually making them feel really good about what they're doing. And when you go into negotiate, you can say, "Listen, the client, Bob, gave me this feedback." It's like you're an LLC of you. You're a product, and this is a customer review.

Tip #5-

You have to ask with empathy. Especially for women, because there's this thing called the double bind. When women act outside of the social norm of how we're expected to act, we can get penalized by both men and women. So we are expected to be accommodating. If you go in and you ask for a lot of money, you're being assertive. So how do you address this? You use the word we. "I'm sure we can figure this out together." You've said your big number. You've been assertive, but then you caveat it with, "Well, I'm sure we can figure this out together."

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Get your copy of LADIES GET PAID.

Follow Claire!

• Twitter - @ladiesgetpaid

• Instagram - @ladiesgetpaid + @clairegetspaid

• Claire’s website - www.ladiesgetpaid.com + www.clairewasserman.com

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• LinkedIn - Ladies Get Paid

Follow Bobbi!

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• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Merch - grownupgear.com
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: Question for you guys. Are we ever going to get back to that whole dress up for work thing the way we used to? I don't know. But one thing I do know is it is time to get out of those PJs and those grungy Tshirts, and we need to give ourselves an upgraded, but still super comfy, wardrobe that makes us smile, and ideally, makes our coworkers, our friends and our family smile as well.

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Bobbi Rebell: Financial Grownup Guide, five ways to get paid more with Ladies Get Paid's Claire Wasserman.

Bobbi Rebell: You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Hey, grownup friends. Do you want to make more money? Yeah I thought so, and yeah, me too. The harsh reality is that the pandemic has been brutal, not just for our health, but also, yeah, for our wealth. Because how do you ask for more money from your boss, or how do you raise prices on your customers in a pandemic? I mean, we should be grateful just to have our jobs, just to have our businesses running if that's the case, which is true. That doesn't mean that we don't deserve to get paid more, and that doesn't mean that we can't get paid more. And we should not assume that those who make the decisions can't and aren't willing to pay us more. Right?

Bobbi Rebell: So I was thrilled to get to talk with Claire Wasserman of Ladies Get Paid about her new book aptly titled, Ladies Get Paid: The Ultimate Guide to Breaking Barriers, Owning Your Worth, and Taking Command of Your Career. So, if you are open to making more money, this episode is definitely for you. By the way, no need to take notes. As always, the show notes have a quick summary of the episode, and all the links that you will need, and even a transcript of the entire interview. You just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and click on the Financial Grownup tab to bring you to the podcast section. There's also a search box on the top right if you want to search for this or a past episode.

Bobbi Rebell: Okay, my friends here is Claire Wasserman of Ladies Get Paid.

Bobbi Rebell: Claire Wasserman, welcome to the Financial Grownup Podcast, and congrats on your new book, Ladies Get Paid: The Ultimate Guide to Breaking Barriers, Owning Your Worth, and Taking Command of Your Career.

Claire Wasserman: Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell: We're going to talk more about the book later in the show, but I want to get right into the five ways to get paid more that you brought for us. The first one is about talking to real people. And that sounds easy, but in this age, it can be complicated.

Claire Wasserman: Well, you could do research on Glassdoor all day, all night, it's just not going to be as accurate as it would be if you talk to real people.

Claire Wasserman: Here's the good news, if you are nervous, remember, every single person wants and needs money, and every single person is trying to figure out how much to charge. So, if you were the first person in your friend group to talk about money, you are actually doing them a favor.

Claire Wasserman: Now, you don't have to ask people specifically, "How much do you make?" Because sometimes that can feel a little uncomfortable. So instead, how about you bring them the research that you've done? "Listen, I'm an art director, five years into my career. I am working for a company that has 10 people." And please note here, I'm talking about context. Context is key. Tell them, "This is the research I did between X and Y. This is the salary. I think I should be getting paid. Am I off base, or, more abstractly, what's the ballpark that you're making?" Just remember, you want to talk to white men also, because they're the ones who are getting paid the most.

Claire Wasserman: And if any of them were trying to figure out how to be allies, which a lot of them are, this is a great way that they can support you. So don't be afraid to even cold email people, find them on LinkedIn, tell them you're trying to figure out your salary and you'd love for them to be an ally. How much do they make? Would they be willing to share, even just a ballpark. The worst thing that can happen is they just don't respond.

Bobbi Rebell: The second tip to get paid more is, "Have three numbers." What does that mean, Claire?

Claire Wasserman: Well, I think too often we go into a negotiation with only one number prepared, or maybe even no numbers prepared and we just completely go off of what they say. Big problem, big problem, because, first of all, we don't know if they're going to be giving an offer that is the highest offer. I mean, oftentimes, it really is just a starting point. They're providing a number with the expectation that you will counter.

Claire Wasserman: So, what's your counter? And the counter should be at the very top of the range that you have researched. Then you have to have a comeback. Don't just stop after the first back and forth with them. Your second number, it's going to be the middle of the range. And the last number is your bottom line, and you hope to never have to get there.

Claire Wasserman: So start with the top number, they're going to counter, then you're going to counter, and hopefully, you get to some kind of compromise. I mean, that's the whole point of a negotiation is for both people to get to a place where they feel like they've gotten something.

Bobbi Rebell: Even though you have those three numbers in your head, is it better to try to get them to make the first offer, or is it better for you to throw out the number first?

Claire Wasserman: I have a controversial opinion here, because I think when you do research, a lot of other coaches will tell you, "Never be the first one to say the number, because you might low ball yourself."

Claire Wasserman: If you've done the market research and they're paying in the market research, when you were the first person to say it, you're anchoring high. If they are the first person, they may be anchoring low. And it sometimes can feel a little uncomfortable to say, "Well, that wasn't really what I was thinking," or it might throw you off, maybe even demoralizes you. So start with the number you want, but back it up with the research that you've done. You can even say, "I've spoken to a number of other people," if they ask, "Where did you get this number?"

Claire Wasserman: And you can also say things like, "This is the number, the market research that I found, but what are you proposing?" So it's not like you're ending the conversation with that first number.

Bobbi Rebell: And a lot of employers, though, try to find out what you were making before and anchor to that. How should people handle that? Because it also depends where you live.

Clair Wasserman: Exactly. So some states have passed what's called the Salary History Ban. The thinking behind that is if marginalized groups are getting paid less than other people from the beginning of their career, and every time that they get a raise, if that's always based on that original salary, well then, the gap will compound over time and will never catch up. So you can decline to respond, or you can be abstract, or tell them how much you got paid, but listen, that's not relevant to the ask now.

Claire Wasserman: I mean, even think about this, look at the original job description, write a new one for what you did. You're going to see a lot of changes. You're going to see experiences, growth, maybe totally different work that you ended up taking on. So the salary that was originally given to you was based on what you knew then. Regardless of what this next job is, and the market research, just know for yourself that you have grown by leaps and bounds since that first salary.

Bobbi Rebell: Number three, "You want to talk about the whole picture."

Claire Wasserman: Yes. And this is especially important now when people are negotiating during a time of economic instability, full compensation. You can negotiate for things other than money, things that bring you value, but maybe don't cost the company that much or nothing at all. So this could be career development, commissions, starting a signing bonus. If you're moving, moving costs, more vacation days. I mean, really anything that you think that you want, you just need to prioritize it, because you can't ask for everything.

Claire Wasserman: So I would say, "What are the top one, two and three items for full comp you can bring up?" I would personally bring it up after the salary conversation is over, only because I don't want them to use your full comp ask as leverage to get that salary down. And you want to ask for this, regardless of whether or not it's a pandemic, just be prepared that you may need to ask for more things, more full comp, if a time like now, if they're not saying yes to the salary.

Claire Wasserman: If you're wondering, "Well, Claire, if they don't have the money to give me a salary bump, how are they going to afford to give me a signing bonus, or pay for me to go to a conference?" A lot of times these come from different budgets. I know so many women who were not able to get the salary they wanted, but the signing bonus actually got them to a place where their now annual salary was exactly what they wanted to begin with. And that was simply because different budgets from different departments.

Claire Wasserman: So if you don't ask, a hundred percent, you're not getting. Again, the worst thing that can happen is they say, "No," which in my mind is really a, "Not yet." And then you can continue the conversation later.

Bobbi Rebell: I like that. A "Not yet." Not a "No." Are there benefits that have evolved during the pandemic that people may not be aware of, that they can ask for?

Claire Wasserman: Well, make sure that you're getting cell phone and internet and anything that requires you to do work from home, which by the way, I think most of us are doing, or a lot of us are doing that.

Bobbi Rebell: Oh yeah.

Claire Wasserman: I wonder if it can even be your laptop, paper, pen, I mean, really pretend you're a freelancer, to be honest. Your overhead costs, they should be paying for. If you want to continue flexibility, you've really proven now to them that it is possible. So if this fits for your lifestyle and you want to do a hybrid model, be prepared to ask, and you can make the case, I think, pretty easily.

Bobbi Rebell: Is that something you should ask before you start, or is that something that you should wait? Because traditionally, people often said "Go in 100% and be extremely present. And then once you prove yourself and they know you and they trust you, then you can ask for a hybrid approach." What's your take on that?

Claire Wasserman: Yeah. I mean, if this is a deal breaker for you, then you definitely want to bring this up maybe during the interview, otherwise you're wasting your own time along with theirs. You can also ask open-ended question of, "Do you have a hybrid model? Are there other people doing this? I'm just curious." So you can get a sense from the very beginning of their openness to the conversation.

Claire Wasserman: And then in terms of proving yourself, sure, but just to remember that it's not necessarily all or nothing. You can ask for maybe once or twice a month, or once a week, or something where they can see how this is going to go. And also proactively address all the reasons that they might be hesitant, so you're not just, "Hey, can I work from home?" And letting them tell you, "No, no, no." It's okay if you're concerned about team dynamic or communication, "Here's a way that we can address that." Just making it really easy for them to feel good about saying yes to you.

Bobbi Rebell: Exactly. And make it easy to say yes. The fourth way to get paid more is my favorite. It's about your value add, really.

Claire Wasserman: I think that's everything. The market research part is easy, but making the case... So it's you say, "Well, Hey, I want top dollar." "Well, hold on now. You have to prove to me that you're a top performer." You don't get the money, because you deserve it, even though, I know you deserve it. And it's also not about, "Here's the work that I did," because guess what? It was your job. It's really about, "Here is how I've impacted the bottom line at this company."

Claire Wasserman: Now, if you were in sales, or in other positions where it is just obvious how you've brought in money, lucky, lucky you. But for other folks, you need to do a little bit of sleuth work. So maybe it's, well, how much time did you save the company? Maybe you took over for another person who was on paid family leave, or your job really ballooned into multiple roles. You created efficient processes with your team. I mean, discounts with vendors, maybe you were able to negotiate. Saved time, saved money that is making money for the company. Even things about how you've been a leader for your team. You've brought enthusiasm and energy. Maybe you've worked there for a long time, and you've become a mentor. This is helping the company save money, because it's helping people continue to work there. It is expensive for them to lose employees. It is expensive for them to find new employees.

Claire Wasserman: So if you're a part of contributing to the culture of the company, it means as much as if you were able to land a client, but you just have to make the case. Have testimonials too. So through all throughout the year, I mean, first of all, you should be tracking your wins. You should be forwarding your wins. When you have great feedback, let's say from a client, go ahead and forward it to your boss. Their success hinges on your success, so this is actually making them feel really good about what they're doing. And when you go into negotiate, you can say, "Listen, the client, Bob, gave me this feedback." It's like you're an LLC of you. You're a product, and this is a customer review. I mean, not to put it so... It sounds not great, but that's the same thing. It's like, "Don't just take my word for it. Take Bob's word for it."

Bobbi Rebell: Okay. The fifth way to get paid more, this is something I think is very hard for a lot of women, because you tell them to be assertive, but you also have to have empathy.

Claire Wasserman: You have to ask with empathy. Especially for women, because we are, this is terrible, but there's this thing called the double bind. When women act outside of the social norm of how we're expected to act, we can get penalized by both men and women. So we are expected to be accommodating, put others before ourselves, be nice, be good girls, don't disrupt.

Claire Wasserman: Well, hold on now. If you go in and you ask for a lot of money, you're being assertive. Well, what's the chance that they're going to now look at you like you're aggressive? And women of color, I know you're nodding. This is something that they even more. So how do you address this? Well, you use the word we. "I'm sure we can figure this out together." But you've said your big number, I want to be clear. You've been assertive, but then you caveat it with, "Well, I'm sure we can figure this out together." Or, "I know this is a company that pays women equitably." That's actually shaming them a little bit.

Bobbi Rebell: I like that one.

Claire Wasserman: Or, "This is a company that is very fair. I'm sure we can figure this out together." And you can always, at the very end, just say, "Well, what would you do if you were in my shoes?" Bring it around. And do remember that we're all negotiating in this environment. They will, I think, automatically have empathy with you if you have empathy with them.

Bobbi Rebell: I don't want to let you go before we talk a little bit about your book directly. Like I said, it's called Ladies Get Paid: The Ultimate Guide to Breaking Barriers, Owning Your Worth, and Taking Command of Your Career. What was your favorite chapter?

Claire Wasserman: I don't think I have a favorite chapter. I just have favorite stories. So for those of you listening, if you're not familiar with the book, I structure it by following the lives of nine real women from the Ladies Get Paid community. Each of them is going through a different professional challenge. And as I tell their story, I stop along the way, and I give advice.

Claire Wasserman: A woman who came to the second workshop that I ever organized about getting unstuck in her career, and all the way, for the next year and a half, she wanted to be in some kind of civic engagement role, maybe in politics. And finally, at a town hall that I hosted about reinventing yourself, she stood up and she declared to the whole room, "I have always wanted to run for office, but people who look like me don't run for office." And she was a young Hispanic woman. And this was in front of a room, this is a hundred women. She said, "But I am going to run for office."

Claire Wasserman: And everybody cheered. And I cried. I cried, because I knew her. I knew her since college. We were so excited for her, because of how brave she was. She declared that she was going to do something that she was probably not going to succeed at. She was going to be going against an incumbent who was 20 or 30 years older than her, of course, a white man. And so here she was, saying, "I'm going to do this thing. And the chances that I even seed are so slim." But that was why it was courageous, and that's why we were so moved by her.

Claire Wasserman: Now, of course, a year later, she wins. Then she became the youngest Congresswoman ever. And her name is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. So that story is my favorite. I guess I just gave away the ending of that story. If that wasn't enough to have you read the book... Well, you'll read the book. I know you all will.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah, the book was amazing. And by the way, it's important to know that even though the title is Ladies Get Paid, there is a lot of general career advice here. It's really powerful. And things that you haven't necessarily heard before are very original strategies that I think will be helpful to everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:My favorite chapter, by the way, was in level up section, you have different sections. I love chapter eight, Get Allies, because I think it's so important to have allies in your corner. As you mentioned, so many jobs are never publicly listed. And so it's important to have people that are looking out for you. And it's not always your direct inner circle. Sometimes it's your acquaintances that can be so valuable in helping your career.

Claire Wasserman: I have never gotten a job that I applied to online. I think I maybe got an interview once. My whole career has come from relationships that I've built over time. They've also been strategic. It's not mutually exclusive to be authentic and have a genuine friendship while also knowing how both of you are going to leverage each other's strengths and connections. And that, again, has been the key, the key to men, the old boys club that exists for a reason. And so we have to create the young girls club. How about that?

Bobbi Rebell: Yes. Well, it's the everyone club, really. And you have to... One of my favorite stories was the last one that you share, which is Madeline, who really investigated and was very upset to find that the men in her company were making multitudes of what she was making. I was a little bit upset by what the ending was, but it was a big lesson.

Claire Wasserman: So that name has been changed.

Bobbi Rebell: Yes.

Claire Wasserman: Her story is in the New Yorker. You can all figure it out.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah.

Claire Wasserman: It is wild. It is even more dramatic than I put in the book, because my editor thought, "Well, the people won't believe this." So you know what? Truth is stranger than fiction, and I'm so honored by her and everybody else who so vulnerably shared their struggles with me. I think it goes a long way to showing folks out there that they're not alone, which is the first step, undo any shame that you have in order to be open to learning and to helping others. We're all going through something. It's so relieving. It's like you just alleviate this weight off of you when you share your story, and I'm just honored that these women did that with me and for you all.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah. And thank you for sharing all of those stories. Tell us more about where people can reach you. We know the book is available everywhere. Where can people be in touch with you and Ladies Get Paid?

Claire Wasserman: I would love you all to follow me on Instagram. I'm @ClaireGetsPaid. You can also follow @LadiesGetPaid on Instagram, and join our Slack group. We've got 75,000 women from all over the world. They've exchanged more than two million messages since 2016. So very talkative in there, and it's free. So just join at LadiesGetPaid.com, and we'll add you. And thanks, Bobbi, for having me. I always love an opportunity to share my story, and as you can tell, I like to talk.

Bobbi Rebell: If you loved what Claire had to say as much as I did, I hope you will, first of all, go buy her book. It's great. And I also hope you will take a moment, while you are listening to this podcast, and take a screenshot of it and post it on Instagram Stories or other social media. And if you tag me @BobbiRebell1, that's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L, and then the number one, you will be entered into our monthly giveaways. You can win books by our authors that are on the podcast, as well as merch from our new Grownup Gear store. You can see the merch, by the way, right on my website, BobbiRebell.com. You'll see it says shop grownup gear.

Bobbi Rebell: Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of the Financial Grownup podcast. So grateful for Claire Wasserman for helping us all learn to get paid like financial grownups. Bye, everyone.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and extreme athlete Kyle Maynard has lived a life of high achievement, so it came a shock, when a planned business venture stumbled, and he had to let 5 employees go and accept the limitations of his vision. 

In Kyle’s money story you will learn:

-How Kyle took a risk on a new venture that did not go as well as projected

-The tough decisions that he had to make to protect his assets

-Kyle's ability to come to terms with his missteps, and decision to cut his losses

-How he chose to pivot and re-think his venture

-The importance of protecting his own financial security while expanding his business

-What Kyle learned from a mentor about "the double bottom line”

-How he integrates his “no excuses” philosophy into his business ventures even when they are not living up to his expectations

In Kyle’s money lesson you will learn

-How to know when to cut your losses

-How to avoid making decisions in fear of what others will think

-Specific ways to evaluate whether or not to put more money into an investment or business ventures

In Kyle's every day money tip you will learn:

-How to prioritize the money you spend on fitness and health

-Whether supplements are worth the money

-How to get in shape when you have a low or no budget

-Why high quality food is better than supplements and shakes etc

-His take on organic foods

-If you need a $10,000 treadmill

-What Kyle was eating  (or not eating!) the day we taped the interview

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of HOW you fail- because at some point we all do

-Why many entrepreneurs, like Kyle, and Perez Hilton do not invest all their own money in their businesses, in order to protect their assets and spread the risk.

-My tip on how to save money and eat healthier when buying fresh fruit

Episode Links

Kyle’s webpage: http://kyle-maynard.com/

Follow Kyle!

Instagram @kylemaynard

Facebook Kyle Maynard

Get a signed copy of Kyle’s book “No Excuses” !

Listen to the Perez Hilton episode where he talks about not risking your own capital that I reference in this episode! 

When should you pay up for organic fruit?

What not to buy organic- Insider

The Truth about organic produce and pesticides- The Washington Post

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Transcription

Kyle Maynard:
Just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well, and so I did go in and let five of the people go on short notice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebel, author of "How to be a financial grownup". But you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So losing a job is hard, but being the one to make those decisions and cause those job losses as a business owner is brutal. As you'll hear from the very raw sharing of an experience that is all too common for entrepreneurs, but rarely talked about so candidly, as it is by my guest, Kyle Maynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
I met him a little more than a year ago at a conference in San Francisco, and immediately needed to know more about this incredible man. I can't begin to tell you how much it means to me that I finally was able to get him on the podcast for everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for those of you who don't know about Kyle Maynard. Kyle is an entrepreneur. He's a speaker. He's an author of the bestseller, "No excuses". Kyle is also an award-winning extreme athlete. He was the first man to bear crawl the highest mountain in Africa, Mount Kilimanjaro. Now, why was he bear crawling? Because Kyle was born with a rare condition known as congenital amputation. It left him with arms that end at the elbows, and legs that end at his knees. So naturally in addition to climbing massive mountains, Kyle owns a gym, is a champion wrestler, teaches crossfit, and is a world record setting weightlifter.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I try to keep the podcast short, so we're just going to cut off the bio there, but trust me, look him up. His accomplishments are endless. I'm so excited about this interview guys. Here is Kyle Maynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kyle Maynard. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kyle Maynard:
Hey, thank you so much Bobbi. Appreciate you having me. I don't know about this whole grownup business, but I'll go with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you're definitely a grownup. I've followed your adventures. So we met, we met over a year ago at a conference out in San Francisco where I got to interview you for the conference and then you were off. You've been traveling. I think you went to something like 14 countries since then, and now you've landed long enough to do this interview in San Diego where you are living a nomadic and minimalist lifestyle.

Kyle Maynard:
Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You may have some ex-girlfriends that would disagree on the grownup part, but you know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no. We're just doing money. We're just going to talk about money and you're a businessman. Look, you have many accomplishments, and you were a bestselling author at a very young age. You were able to make some money early on, enough to be able to invest in a home. You invested in mutual funds that was up and down. You also founded a very successful gym and that venture has done well.

Bobbi Rebell:
But now for your money story, we're going to talk about what's been going on more recently. And first of all I just want to thank you in advance, because this was not the original story that you were going to share, but you have agreed to share it I believe here for the first time, so candidly. And you had to make some very tough decisions after something, a new venture hadn't gone as well as expected. And I think it's something a lot of people will relate to and get a lot out of this story. So go for it. Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
So I guess to start with my current career has been, as you know, traveling around giving speeches, corporate events, and you know a variety of other types of events. Like you in sort of the motivations for starting this podcast, very similar motivations. I've been wanting to go and try to find a way to go and build a business and monetize things outside of just the constant travel, and feel like there is a place to be able to go and reach people in the digital world, you know.

Kyle Maynard:
I also do have access to some amazing human beings, and really wanted to be able to harness that and be able to help other people realize more of their potential in their lives and whatever that would mean for them.

Kyle Maynard:
And I made some really aggressive hires very quickly, so I'd hired five near full time people to kind of help build out the vision for what I had set out to do with this new program. And things got pretty dramatically behind schedule and I ultimately realized the amount that was going to go and take to be able to go and get the ship righted if it worked at all, potentially might eat away at the vast majority of the savings that I'd made over the last decade or more.

Kyle Maynard:
And I had to make a very tough decision to be able to analyze the whole idea of the sunk cost fallacy. It's probably one of my favorite financial concepts. But the idea that just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well.

Kyle Maynard:
And so I did go and let five of the people go on short notice quickly and ended up, give them a month to figure out what they were going to go and do next, as I felt like that was something that needed to happen. The promises and the excitement that was there and was made, I just wanted to go and do right by them, but at the same time did not want to eat away at the savings that I'd built up entirely for something that wasn't going so great.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's hard. Can you tell us more about what your vision, what kind of venture it was, and what did not happen or did happen that was not aligned with your original vision?

Kyle Maynard:
One of my financial mentors taught me this. He's the vice chairman of AOL, and he said that everything that he goes and gets into, you know, has this double bottom line aspect of purpose and profitability. That theme and that concept is something that I wanted to go and teach people that purpose and profitability. Profitability not just in their business lives, but like in every aspect of their lives.

Kyle Maynard:
And through some of my best friends that are former Navy seals, professional athletes, people that have achieved great things, wanted to be able and go and pull together from their wisdom to be able to create a program to ultimately inspire other people to go and take on these dreams, these visions.

Kyle Maynard:
And it's not dissimilar from, you know, people who have done these types of things before. You know, like the Tony Robbins style events and things like that. We wanted to go and approach it from a different angle, which is still going to happen I know down the road at some point, so I'm not going to go into the details, the specifics of what makes that so different.

Kyle Maynard:
But at the same time holding true to that message, the achievement of that no excuses mentality, which is kind of, that's the core of my messaging is like finding a way. That could be really detrimental when we try to enforce things that are not happening.

Kyle Maynard:
Things were way behind on this project and in order to like kind of pull together and unravel it, like ultimately to realize that by forcing that to happen in the nature of this project, I was going to lose the essence of what it was too, and kind of create something that was just generic that was too similar to what other people had already done too. So it was even still protecting the project at the risk of looking like an idiot. And it's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a very grownup decision because you're also number one, protecting your financial assets that you've built up over a decade and that's something very real. But Perez Hilton, of of all people said, when you're building a business, don't always risk all your money. It's okay to take other people's money. You have to protect your own money too, and that's okay.

Kyle Maynard:
Totally. Really, I think that what it comes down to is the idea of fear and ego and looking bad and all of those things should not keep us from making the decisions that we know we need to make. So many of us go through life attached to the image of who we think that we are.

Kyle Maynard:
If we both throw in $50,000 into a business and I'm running the business, I come to you and I say, "Hey, we need to go and put in another $25,000 each". If you justify that in your head based off of the logic that you've already put in 50, it's a faulty logic.

Kyle Maynard:
The right way to make that decision would be as if I've made no investment whatsoever in that, like, would I make that $25,000 investment today. And if you answered yes, then do it and if not, then it's time to walk away from it. And ultimately what I had to go and realize is, if I were to go and make that investment for that payroll and kind of the extended runway and all that stuff, like I wouldn't make that investment today. So then ultimately I've got to make a hard choice now.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from your experience?

Kyle Maynard:
I would say it's to look at whatever the situation, whether it's a financial thing, but it could be like I said, relationship thing, health thing, whatever. Look at where things are like out of order, and frankly are we clinging to something or some idea? Because you know, we think that we've already invested so much in it, like it's a dumb idea. Or like you continue on down that path, you know, whether it's ... I talk to my sisters about that all the time and like, you know, relationships too, it's this exact same way, you know. It's like you don't date somebody just because you dated them for two years. That's not the right way to go about that decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But people do, they feel they've invested in the person, the relationship. I should stick in and that is definitely not good to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you how. So so you are in the fitness business and that's your everyday money tip is how to save money. What to prioritize? What's worth spending money on when you're trying to get in shape? Because you climbed mountains, Kyle, like it's pretty insane what goes on.

Kyle Maynard:
You mentioned this, but I'd owned a gym for a long time too, and actually my first company right out of the gate was a supplement company and learned a tremendous amount about that and just the whole industry. And I think a ton of stuff that we spend money on in health and fitness goes unused and wasted. The biggest thing that you can do I think in the health and fitness journey is to drastically simplify it and spend time actually doing stuff. You know, spend time on, like if you're going to spend money, spend it on getting high quality food, instead of a ton of supplements and shakes and all of that stuff. Spend it on getting real foods, decent quality stuff. If you can eat organic, great. If not, then you can still get high quality food too that's not organic, that maybe it's not going to be as ideal, but like it's going to be pretty good.

Kyle Maynard:
It's going to get you a long ways and you don't need to go in and buy a ton of crazy fitness contraptions like you can make do with simple stuff. Like everyone has access to the gym of the outdoors like and if it's super cold or super hot where you're at, then you have your bedroom, you have a space at some point. You have your body. You have you know so many ways to go and move that don't require expensive $10,000 treadmills.

Kyle Maynard:
Is it an excuse? When it comes down to it, it actually is avoidant of the real issue at hand, which is putting in work and eating high quality food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So what are you eating for dinner tonight, Kyle?

Kyle Maynard:
Today, I have yet to eat anything yet. I think I'm going to go on a fasting day, and then thrown in ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait a second, guys. Just so you know, we're taping this. It's after noon in San Diego where Kyle is. You haven't eaten till noon. Come on.

Kyle Maynard:
Most days I don't.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're one of those morning faster people.

Kyle Maynard:
Intermittent fasting. Yeah, and also like I'll throw in a periodic like two, three, five day fast every now and then. So ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. That's also not, not the purpose of it.

Kyle Maynard:
Saves money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Save some money I guess. Anyway, so everyone. So Kyle has a bunch of projects going on. but they're top secret. So Kyle's not going to tell us. So I'm just going to have Kyle tell everyone where you can find out about all of his top secret next chapter of his business venture and life adventures. Go for it, Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
All right. You can hit me up on Instagram is probably the place that I'm a more active, Instagram and Facebook, but Instagram's like pretty much where it's at. Like I've also taken the time to be able to spend the next few months to be able to go at a little slower pace and enjoy and then gear up for some exciting stuff in the fall and the winter.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handle is Kyle Maynard, is it Kyle Maynard, right?

Kyle Maynard:
It's just KyleMaynard.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kylemayard.com. Cool. All right, everyone. Check him out. Thank you Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
Awesome. Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So if there is anyone whose adventures you really need to be following on Instagram, it is Kyle's. This was a serious interview, but he's a really fun guy to watch, so definitely follow him.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get down to my take. Financial Grownup tip number one. Fail, but with grace and gratitude. I did not hear one bit of pity from Kyle, and I know he really put his all into this venture, so thankfully he did not put it in all his money. There was no finger pointing. He did not blame anyone. He kept his head up.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was not the story we had planned to share. Kyle mentioned it casually as we were setting up. We planned to share something else, so it is possible, even likely, that you guys are the first ones hearing this, and that's pretty brave for Kyle because Kyle's a pretty well known guy who is known for winning, and as he says, no excuses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Kyle reminds us that we can get in shape at no cost, and that rather than supplements, we can just eat good quality food. My tip buy less precut fruit to save money. So just this week, I realized my family bought a $9 container of cut up organic cantaloupe, which by the way had already gone bad that day so it wasn't even fresh and I had to return it, but $9. Oh my gosh. So first of all, easy way to save money on healthy fruits and vegetables. Cut them up yourself at home.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, be aware of where to pay up for organic. In general, if it has a skin or an outer layer that you're not eating in general, you don't need to pay up for organic. I'll leave some links with more info in the show notes. And by the way the show notes can always be found by going to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and scrolling down to the episode. You can also type in bobbirebell.com/podcast and the guest's name. So in this case it would be bobbirebell.com/podcast/kylemaynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, big thank you. The show is growing. More of you are subscribing, so thank you again. Please tell your friends and all that good stuff. Social media is great, DME. Be in touch on Instagram bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to the great Kyle Maynard for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Speaker 1:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

---

Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.