Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.

 

In Scott’s money story you will learn:

-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans

-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision

-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how  that impacted their financial wellbeing.

-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt

-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers

-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences

-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it

In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:

-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school

-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition. 

-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.

In Scott’s money tip you will learn:

-How you can get medical school debt forgiven

In My Take you will learn:

-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven

-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness

-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt

 

EPISODE LINKS

• Government website links:

  • www.studentloans.gov

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions

• Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor: 

  • https://thecollegeinvestor.com/578/ways-to-get-student-loan-forgiveness/

• This is the article by Melanie Lockert. 

  • https://studentloanhero.com/featured/the-complete-list-of-student-loan-forgiveness-programs/

• You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!

• You can consolidate your student debt, and get  more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com

 

Follow Scott!

Twitter @radiology911

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Transcription

Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.

Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?

Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?

Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?

Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?

Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.

Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.

Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?

Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?

Scott Steenburg:
No, no.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?

Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?

Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.

Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.

Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.

Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Melanie Lockert and her business partner Emma Pattee launched the Lola Retreat in 2017,  profits were at the bottom of their list. So low they did not even try to get sponsors until just a few weeks before the event. What happened then was shocking. Plus a money tip for the luxury lover. 

In Melanie’s money story you will learn:

-The behind-the-scenes decisions that went into the launch of the Lola Retreat

-Why the creators of Lola prioritized content over profit

-How the last-minute decision to reach out for sponsorship took Lola from a money-losing venture into a profitable ongoing business

-Why they chose not to outsource as they were building the Lola Retreat

-The technique Melanie Lockert and her partner Emma Pattee used to attract sponsors to her first-ever Lola Retreat

In Melanie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of actually asking for what you want

-How to leverage your reputation to build a new business

-How positive thinking even in tough times helped Melanie achieve her goals.

-Melanie’s new approach to negotiation

In Melanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Where to get luxury beauty services at a fraction of the cost

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should aim high when asking for money

-How smaller,niche events can offer great marketing value for even the largest companies

-Ways to save money on services by going to students in places like cooking schools and design schools, in addition to the beauty schools that Melanie discussed

Follow Melanie!

Twitter @deardebtblog @LolaRetreat

Instagram @deardebt @lolaretreat

Facebook Melanie Lockert

Melanie’s Dear Debt blog

Get Melanie’s book Dear Debt

Learn more about lolaretreat.com

Fidelity.com

FinancialGym.com

Kristin Wong is at TheWildWong.com

Erin Lowry/Broke Millennial is at https://brokemillennial.com/

 

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Transcription

Melanie Lockert:
Something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event. It was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. You guys know that song, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets." Well, the reality is sometimes Lola has to actually ask for it. That is the irony of the story you are about to hear from Melanie Lockert. She is well-known from her blog and her book, Dear Debt, where she chronicled her feelings about the $81,000 of debt that she was saddled with. Melanie is also the co-founder of the Lola Retreat, and yes, the name was inspired by that song, because it is meant to be about women getting whatever they want. While the event is meant to teach attendees how to empower themselves financially, when planning her first conference, Melanie had to learn some lessons of her own in that regard. Here is Melanie Lockert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melanie Lockert, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Melanie Lockert:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
People know you from your Dear Debt blog, your Dear Debt book, and your newest project, which we will talk about more at the end of the podcast. Just briefly, what is Lola Retreat, because I know it's happening very soon.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah. Lola Retreat is a women and money event, and it is a weekend full of education and workshop and panels to empower women to rock their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted you to explain what it is because the money story that you're going to talk about has to do with it, and it has to do with year one, which was just last year, and how you've monetized the event and what you did right and what you maybe would do differently and are doing differently this time.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, totally. I had such a great money lesson last year. With the retreat, there was so much going on in regards to programming and attendees, and I was so focused on getting the content really wonderful and making sure that we got the venue right, the speakers and everything that sponsors were not really on my mind. I really just wanted to make sure that it was the best even possible, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and when you say sponsors, you were just funding it purely on the admission that you were charging people?

Melanie Lockert:
Our ticket sales were really getting invested back into the event, so we didn't really know if we were going to make money on this event or not. Three weeks before the event, Emma, my colleague, talked to me, and she was like, "Melanie, we're going to breakeven right now, so if you want to make some money on this event, either we're going to have to cut back or be happy with breaking even." I was like, "I don't like either of those answers. I don't want to cut back because this is our first event, and it needs to be super amazing, and I also want to make some money, even if it's just one dollar." I really needed just that symbolic metaphor that I made a profit, so I was like, "How am I going to do this?" I was like, "I'm going to approach sponsors. People sponsor events all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to approach sponsors, I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to go find some money." In the back of my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. I haven't contacted anybody about sponsorship money. It's too late."

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you guys discussed the concept of sponsors at all? Had it ever occurred to you before this?

Melanie Lockert:
We kind of did, but it was really at the bottom of our list. We really were just focused on making sure the programming was amazing and making sure all of the programmatic details were really in place.

Bobbi Rebell:
So just to be clear, it's not that you were trying and sponsors were rejecting, you just literally had not tried. Did you think about outsourcing it to somebody else, or it just slipped through the cracks?

Melanie Lockert:
It slipped through the cracks. It was something that we didn't really focus on at all. We didn't contact anyone about it until three weeks, and in the back of my mind, I was like, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. There's no way anybody's going to give us any money at this point it's too late." But I wanted to do it anyways just so I could cross it off my list and say that I did it, and be like, "Okay, well, I tried to get money. It didn't happen, whatever," but something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event, and so it was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you talk a little bit about how much money you got in sponsorships and maybe speculate what you think you may have left on the table had you tried earlier?

Melanie Lockert:
We did get several thousand dollars worth of sponsorships. I don't want to get into specifics, but I definitely know we did leave some money on the table.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made a profit of more than a dollar first of all, to be clear.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's excellent.

Melanie Lockert:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think you left money on the table?

Melanie Lockert:
I do think we left money on the table because, first of all, we did give sponsorships at a discount because it was so late, number one. Number two, there's only so much you can do in three weeks, so we didn't have really the time to foster that kind of outreach and sponsorship beforehand, and I think if we would've had more time to dedicate earlier on that we could've had more sponsorship money and really been able to fund the event in a better way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do differently in year two?

Melanie Lockert:
This year we've definitely worked on approaching sponsors earlier. I'm happy to say that we're going to be working with Fidelity on a welcome reception for Lola Retreat year two. I'm super excited about that. They are a wonderful company, and they've always supported women and money. We're definitely working with a lot of scholarship sponsors this year. That makes me super happy because the scholarship sponsorship is near and dear to my heart. Essentially people sponsor a lovely lady to come to the event who wouldn't be able to otherwise come, so they get to read over the scholarship applications and they get to pick who they think would be a good fit to come to the event. It's really interactive, it's really an affordable sponsorship too, and at the end of the day it's one less ticket that I need to sell, so we've been focusing on that a lot as well, which is fun for me, and I really enjoy that part of it.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, I think this year we've had kind of more time to focus and more outreach, and then really focus on big partners. We've loved to work with Fidelity this year and continue working with sponsors that really align with our values.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson now? I know that we are still a couple weeks away from Lola Retreat. What is the lesson for our listeners about this? What's the takeaway?

Melanie Lockert:
The lesson is that you should always ask, and you should really check yourself if you think there's no way that you can do something because in my mind, I had already made up the fact that, "Oh, no one's going to give me money. It's too late. It's three weeks before the event. Why would anyone take me seriously?" Mind you, it was scary because in year one, this was before the event, we had nothing to show for it. We had no photos, we had no testimonials, we just had a website essentially. We had nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also had your reputation. You had a very strong reputation, as does your partner.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did have that. That's a lot.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did have that, which is definitely helpful, but from an event standpoint we had nothing necessarily to show, "Here are the testimonials, here are what people said, here are photos, here's impressions from the social media from that weekend." We had nothing concrete to show, and so in my mind it was like, "No one's going to take us seriously. No one's going to give us money," and I just had already made up my mind, but I was so shocked kind of how easy it was. I mean, it wasn't super easy, but it wasn't that difficult either.

Bobbi Rebell:
People said yes.

Melanie Lockert:
People said yes more than they said no actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Melanie Lockert:
I think I was just so passionate about women and money and doing this event, and I think people could see the grit and the passion in my words, and they can understand the idea. People were willing to invest in that idea, and those initial sponsors, I'm so grateful for because they really believed in us and our idea from the beginning when we had nothing to show. I'm really grateful for them, and then it just proved to me, like what other areas of my life am I convinced that, "Oh, this isn't going to work out, or this wouldn't happen," but if I just try, maybe it will. Actually, this is a reoccurring lesson for me. I actually when I was a non-profit employee before becoming self-employed, I had never asked for a raise once. Not once. I'm so ashamed that I've never negotiated my salary until becoming self-employed, because as a self-employed person, you have to learn to negotiate or you will not survive. This is kind of a reoccurring money lesson for me is that I have to know what I'm worth, and I have to negotiate, and I have to ask, and really at the end of the day, the worst thing people are going to say is no. No one's going to laugh at your idea and say you're stupid and call you ridiculous and think, "Wow, you think you're something else," or "you think you're a bigshot."

Melanie Lockert:
No one's going to say that. They're just going to say, "No, we can't do that." It's really okay. I'm really trying to push my boundaries and figure out other areas of my life that I can push and really kind of change the game a little bit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you before we get to your money tip. In terms of the money, you made a few thousand dollars in year one. In terms of how much more you're going to make this year, can you give me some idea of how the results changed when you were more purposeful in asking for sponsorships?

Melanie Lockert:
That's a good question. That's still TBD because we still have a lot of expenses that are going to be in the queue in the next coming weeks, but projecting right now it looks like hopefully double what we made last year, which would be really amazing, but like I said, we're not totally sure because there are a lot of last minute expenses that come up towards the end. We will see how everything shakes out, but I'm feeling pretty good about everything right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your money tip because this one is brilliant, and I never thought of this. This is really original, and it's something that can let us all have our luxuries and indulgences, but within our budgets, or even just to save money for other things that we want to do even if we're not on a tight budget, so it's nice to spend a little bit less for luxuries in life. Do tell.

Melanie Lockert:
Totally. Yeah. My money tip is to go to a beauty school for haircuts, pedicures, manicures, or massages or facials. When I was paying off debt, I didn't really have extra money to do anything, but I still wanted to treat myself at least once a year to something, especially when I hit a big debt milestone, right? I found this beauty school in Portland, and the rates were so insanely cheap because all of them were students, and before you get scared, they do have kind of more professional level people there working alongside the students to make sure they don't mess up. I remember I paid like $35 for a pedicure, a manicure, and a facial.

Bobbi Rebell:
Total.

Melanie Lockert:
Total, and I'm pretty sure the school had a policy that you couldn't tip either because it was a school, so it was super affordable. It was really affordable. My money tip is to find a local beauty school in your area and see what services they offer. It could be much, much cheaper and at a fraction of a cost, and at least in my personal experience, it was wonderful. If you have a specific person that you love or specific things then maybe that's not necessarily the best tip for you, but for me, the services were completely comparable and totally worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk about the Lola Retreat. It is in my hometown, New York City, this year.

Melanie Lockert:
Yay, I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, it's going to be at the Financial Gym, so Shannon McLeigh, the CEO and founder of The Financial Gym is one of my best friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she was on the podcast last week.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, she is amazing, and she has graciously agreed to host us in New York city, so Lola Retreat is at The Financial Gym April 27th through the 29th, and we are going to have sessions on how to pay off debt, how to get started with investing, how to level up your money with Kristin Wong. We also have Get Your Financial Life together with Erin Lowry. We also have some really interesting panels on how to prepare and deal with financial disaster as well as this concept of F Off Funds. I won't curse on the podcast, but it's especially important for women, especially right now for women to have a separate stash of cash to be able to say, "F you," in a situation that is not healthy, whether it's a workplace scenario, a relationship scenario. I think it's so important, so I'm really excited about the content that we have, and so excited to meet our lovely ladies. Yeah, I think it's going to be a wonderful weekend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I send people to sign up for Lola and to be in touch with you?

Melanie Lockert:
People can go to LolaRetreat.com and check it out. People can also find me at DearDebt.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Melanie Lockert, Lola Retreat. Can't wait to get there. It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Loved hearing how far Melanie and her partner have come in just one year of the Lola Conference. Here's my take, Financial Grown Up tip number one. Aim high. In year one, Melanie didn't think she would get any sponsors. She was shy just about reaching out to anyone at all, but here we are, just year two, just a second year, and she has incredible brand. She has Fidelity, guys. Sensei, Shopkick, and of course The Financial Gym, so don't write off a large company assuming they will only sponsor large events. They will find, often, a lot of value in smaller, targeted, specific events that have engaged and invested audiences as is the case with Lola.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two, be creative when it comes to treating yourself. If you're feeling deprived financially because you never get to do anything, you are much more likely to cheat, just like on a food diet. Melanie talked about going to beauty schools for things like manicures, massages, facials, all that good spa stuff, but sticking to the theme of students, you can also, for example, have a great meal at a cooking school, or if you're redoing your home or redecorating one of the rooms but have a limited budget, consider getting a student from a local design school involved, and just think, you could be someone's final graduation project. You never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, if you enjoyed Melanie's story, please hit the subscribe button, and if you have just a few minutes, leave a review on Apple podcast. They really do make a difference in getting the word out. I am also working on getting better at sending out my newsletters, so if you are not already on the list, get on the list. Just go to BobbiRebell.com. While you're there you can check out previous episodes by clicking on Financial Grown Up Podcast, and of course, be in touch. I'm on Twitter @BobbiRebell, Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. I hope you guys all head out and treat yourselves to some affordable indulgences just like Melanie, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.