Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing. 

Danielle's money story:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.

Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?

Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?

Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?

Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?

Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.

Danielle’s money lesson:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?

Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.

Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.

Danielle's everyday money tip:

Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.

Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.

Danielle Town:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.

Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.

Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.

Financial GrownUp Tip number one:

Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.

Financial GrownUp Tip number two:

If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.

Episode Links

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!! 

Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com

Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town:  Invested and on iTunes here 

Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested! 

Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:

• Investopedia

• CNBC

• CNN Money

• Reuters

• GoogleFinance

• Yahoo Finance

• Seeking Alpha

Follow Danielle!

• Twitter: @danielle_town

• Instagram: @danielletown

• Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested

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Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked  shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode. 

 

In Manisha’s money story you will learn:

-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons

-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator

-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween. 

-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments

-The power of compounding

In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:

-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing

-The corrosive power of inflation

-Why we need to put  the recent period of historically low inflation in context

-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility

In Manisha’s money tip you will learn

Manisha’s investing formula

1. Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios

2. Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years

3. For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age 

4. That is the amount that should be in equities

5. For example Manisha is 47. 

6. 110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Why you do not need an HP12C calculator because so much is available online

-Exactly how to find out the status of your retirement accounts and if you are on track to reach your goals

-How and why you should automate your retirement savings. 

 

Episode links: 

Follow Manisha!

Twitter: @manishathakor

Facebook: Manisha Thakor

LinkedIn Manisha Thakor

YouTube: Manisha Thakor

Instagram Manisha Thakor

Pinterest Manisha Thakor

MoneyZen.com

Get Manisha’s books! http://www.moneyzen.com/books/

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
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Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is a really hard, especially when it comes for money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are geeking out here at Financial Grownup, but stay with me friends because you will have more money and be wealthier if you listened to this episode and follow my guest advice. Manisha Thakor is the author of Get Financially Naked, How to Talk Money With Your Honey. She is also the force behind MoneyZen, and is a practicing certified financial planner. If that sounds pretty cerebral, well, she will take that as a compliment. She started learning about investing very, very early. Here is Manisha Thakor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Manisha Thakor, welcome. You are a financial grownup. I'm so excited you're joining us on the Financial Grownup podcast.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited to be here, and to be deemed by you a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're very much a grownup. You're the author of two books, On My Own Two Feet, and I love the second title, I know everyone does, Get Financially Naked. You also have MoneyZen. Lots going on.

Manisha Thakor:
I feel super excited about the world of personal finance and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good, and I'm super excited about the story that you brought to share today, because it has to do with some father-daughter bonding around, not the dinner table, around the HP 12C calculator.

Manisha Thakor:
I love this. When I was around 11 years old, my dad, he's an MBA and a CPA, he sat me down in a moment of father-daughter bonding that only financial geeks, like ourselves, could really appreciate. He had an HP 12C calculator, which for folks who may not be familiar with it, is a financial calculator that enables you to do sophisticated compounding calculations on it.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, if I earned 7% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Manisha Thakor:
That was really my first introduction to the power of compounding, and I think because he had my physically touching the buttons on the calculator, and then he made me write down the numbers in a little grid on a notepad. I can literally still even remember what the notepad looked like. It was so tactile and so visual.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have the notebook still?

Manisha Thakor:
You know, I wish I did. He and I both say in retrospect, "We totally should have saved that for the grandkids," but it's in my mind's eye. That's how I got hooked on saving and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what is the lesson for our listeners? Should everyone be bonding over calculators?

Manisha Thakor:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that's not going to happen.

Manisha Thakor:
No, I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's bring it down to a realistic level.

Manisha Thakor:
The lesson for me, and the lesson that I want to scream from the mountain tops, is, and particularly for women, is that it's not enough to just save money. Saving is great, and it's freaking hard to do, but you must invest it as well, first and foremost to offset the corrosive power of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is picking up by the way, so that's something we need to start being more aware of, and a lot of young people haven't really seen inflation at the level that other generations have. But it is going to become a bigger part of our dialog.

Manisha Thakor:
Yeah, and Bobbi, you've nailed it. We've just gone through such a bizarro period of de minimis inflation. An example I love to give is 100 bucks over a 30 year period at 3% inflation is worth $40, was, at the beginning. If you just increase that inflation to 5%, which doesn't sound like a big jump, but that drops the value of $100 in 30 years to what $20 would have bought.

Manisha Thakor:
So small [inaudible 00:05:54] inflation have a huge, huge impact, and that's why you cannot just save. You have to invest, because the first step of investing is keeping your money growing at least with the rate of inflation. If you do investing well, then ideally over the long run you grow your portfolio even faster than inflation, which increases your real purchasing power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now for your money tip, Manisha. We're geek out even more, because you have actually brought a formula. Your, Manisha's, magical formula for investing success. I promise everyone, just stick with us, she says it really well. She's going to explain it all, and we're going to have it all written down in the show notes for you as well. Go for it.

Manisha Thakor:
The way I think about how to take your hard earned savings and invest it is the following. First, take a look at the total dollar value of your current saving and investment portfolios. Second, subtract out any money you know you need to spend in the next five years. This could be money you need for a home down payment, or it could be your six month emergency fund.

Manisha Thakor:
Then, for any of your long term money, which for most of us is our retirement money. So it's any money that you know you don't have to spend in the next five years. What you do, is you take 110, and you subtract your age to get a back of the envelop estimate of what percent of your portfolio should be invested in stocks. That was a mouthful, and Bobbi, as you mentioned, it will be in the show notes, but I'll give you an example.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm 47 years old. We'll round that down, because at my age you like to round down. To keep the math easy, 110 minus 45 equals 65. So a good starting point for me, for how much of my long term money at my age should be in stocks, is 65%. Lo and behold, that's how much I have of my long term money in stocks.

Manisha Thakor:
The biggest mistake that I am seeing with young people these days is shying away from investing their savings, because they're afraid of losing money. So they're missing those vital early years of compounding. That's why it's so important that you subtract out the money you need to spend in the next five years, so no matter what the market is doing, you're fine. The money you know you needed, it's in cash. It's only your long term money that's being invested.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of young people witnessed their older siblings, or their parents, really being burnt in the recession, and that's a lot of the hesitation.

Manisha Thakor:
I'll just say, Bobbi, when I hear somebody tell me that 2007 to 2009 ruined their retirement, what I say is, "No. Either you had the wrong asset allocation going into it, or you blink and you deviated from your plan." Because if you followed the formula that I'm saying, and you didn't have any money that you needed to spend in the next five years in the market, in 2007-2009, you would have seen your portfolio drop as much as 50%, but you wouldn't have sold a single share of anything, because you didn't need to touch it, and then you would have seen your money double or triple as you came out of the recovery.

Manisha Thakor:
So the people who lost in 07-09, where the people that were forced to sell at bottom to maintain their lifestyle, or got scared because they didn't have the cash cushion, and sold at the bottom. That's why this formula is so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you've got to sit tight. Even the beginning of 2018 we had some scary days. You've got to know your focus and stick with the plan. All right. Mrs Manisha, I also hear you have big news, new projects, new jobs. Tell us.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited. I have just accepted the role of vice president of financial education for an amazing firm called Brighton Jones. I could not be happier. When I think about what I want to accomplish in this world, my belief is that money is power, and women need more of both.

Manisha Thakor:
And so I am going to be doing my darnedest in this new role to help women achieve that. As part of that, I'm really going to be ramping up my efforts with my MoneyZen newsletter. So if listeners are interested, I encourage you, go to my website, moneyzen.com. I'll have a monthly newsletter that I'll be putting out. It's educational, and I'm really going to be working hard to share the most vital resources, articles, tools, each month around women's economic empowerment, and how we can all use personal finance and investing to increase our voices and choices. I always say, "Money gives women, it gives everyone, voices and choices," and financial education, and financial guidance are what helps unlock those doors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Before I let you go, where can we find you on social media?

Manisha Thakor:
My name is a mouthful, and I'm the same handle on everything. I'm ManishaThakor everywhere. It's M-A-N-I-S-H-A-T-H-A-K-O-R, on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you forget that, go to moneyzen.com, because I have all my social media icons right up at the top.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

Manisha Thakor:
Bobbi, always a pleasure to chat with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
As warned, Manisha and her dad totally geeked out with all that math, but the good news is, you guys don't need to go out and buy yourself fancy HP 12C calculators and do all this kind of fancy math, because these days it's really all there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, there is nothing more powerful than seeing the numbers. And like I said, you don't even have to do the math yourself these days. Log into your HR website from your job, or if you work for yourself and you have retirement accounts, which you should, go there. Go to the provider, and just take a look. Most of them will have nice calculators. They'll do the math for you. They'll have probably some graphic ways to show you how you measure up, where you are relative to your retirement goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can actually see how you stand, and see how you feel about it. You might get pretty emotional. It could be a really emotion. You might doing pretty well. It could possibly be not that great, but maybe that will motivate you. But the important thing is, get the information, it doesn't take much work, and make decisions from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of decisions, financial grownup tip number two. While you're on that website, look at the retirement savings, and look for a box that says, "Increase your withholding," or a box you should check that says, "Increase your withholding by 1% every year," and of course check that box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you can always undo it, but by checking that box it will automate increasing the amount of money that you are putting away each year, and you probably won't feel it because it's tax deductible, so it won't cost you that full amount, and it will amplify your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have been hearing a lot from you guys, wanting to share your own financial grownup money stories, lessons, and money tips. So we are going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, and tell us, what is the money story that you would like to share, and what is the money tip that you would also share with us, if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Subscribe if you have not already, and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Follow me, and please retweet these silly promo videos I'm doing. They're a lot of fun. I enjoy making them. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy seeing them, if you have not already. Help us reach more listeners. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1, you can also repost those, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show, and sign up for our mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Manisha's story, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.