Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission. 

In Catie’s money story you will learn:

-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"

-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast

-The employer side of pay negotiation

-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation

In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach

-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford

-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals

In Catie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her tips on negotiating

-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place

-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations

-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations

In my take you will learn:

-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise

-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion

-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right. 

-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product. 

Episode Links

EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/

Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!

Instagram Catie_Lazarus

Twitter @catielazarus

Facebook EOTM

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.

Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.

Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.

Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.

Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].

Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?

Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?

Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.

Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?

Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.

Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-

Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.

Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?

Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?

Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.

Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?

Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

“The Big Life” author and former Seventeen Magazine Editor-in-Chief Ann Shoket’s boss literally mocked her when she asked to get paid more as a young magazine editor. Now, she knows better. Ann shares the one thing she does to find out what to ask for in negotiations, and how she leverages it to make more money. 

 

In Ann’s money story you will learn:

-How as a young magazine editor, Ann loved her job, but her compensation was not in line with her contributions. 

-How Ann prepared to approach her manager about a raise

-The shocking reason the manager denied her request

-The uncharacteristic response Ann gave to his pushback

-Exactly what Ann would do if she could do it over

In Ann’s lesson you will learn:

-How the resources of today could have helped Ann get that raise

-The specific advice Ann offers millennials 

-Where and how exactly listeners can get the information they need to better negotiate

-How to find out what you are worth in the job market

In Anne’s money tip you will learn:

-The best way to approach colleagues and friends to share salary and compensation information

-How e-mail vs IRL compare in sharing sensitive information about compensation and other career advice 

-Why it is so important to Ann that she help other women

-The specific language Ann uses in her conversations about money and other compensation with her peers

-How to handle issues of competition with peers and colleagues after sharing information

-What Ann learned from millennials about transparency

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of creating networks and career allies to share pay and other relevant information

-How to decide and communicate boundaries regarding the information

-How to decide if it is best to share information over email or IRL

-The importance of security when sharing sensitive information online

 

Episode Links:

Ann’s Ted Talk: Why We Should All Be More Millennial 

Anne’s book The Big Life: Embrace the Mess, Work Your Side Hustle, Fie a Monumental Relationship and Become the Badass Babe You Were Meant to Be

Anne's website:

AnnShoket.com

Follow Ann!!

Twitter @annshoket

Instagram: @annshoket

Facebook Ann.Shoket

LinkedIn Ann Shoket

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brains behind Skype. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Ann Shoket:
He looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So this episode is going to be a treat and perfect for anyone that feels they could, and let's face it, should, be earning more money. You may have a boss you need to convince or you may have your own business and need to figure out how to charge your clients more and grow your business. Ann Shoket is a big name. She first became famous as the editor-in-chief of Seventeen Magazine and was named by Forbes to be one of the most powerful U.S. fashion magazine editors. More recently, she penned The Big Life and started a Badass Babes community. And being a badass herself, she also has an amazing TED Talk called Why We Should All Be More Millennial. Which brings us to the advice she is going to share, because it is about using that idea to get paid more money. Here is Ann Shoket.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ann Shoket, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ann Shoket:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulation on your massive bestseller, The Big Life, and more recently your TED Talk, which I've now watched a number of times. You are literally the Jane Goodall of millennials, so I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you. I have devoted my career to understanding millennials and supporting them and helping them find their power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to the money story that you're going to share, which really has to do with trading money for meaning at work. Because of the importance really of meaning, because we spend so much time at work.

Ann Shoket:
So when I was sort of mid-level editor coming up in the world, just past the stage of eating ramen and scrounging and going to happy hours to have dinner, where I had some experience under my belt and a little bit of a salary, I was creating new content for my company and doing great innovations and I wanted to get paid more. And I remember I walked into my boss and I came in with a list of things that I had achieved, I'm no dummy, you know, you come in with these [crosstalk 00:03:09].

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were prepared, right.

Ann Shoket:
It wasn't entitlement, I was prepared for this conversation, and he looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." And I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills. And frankly, I wanted to get paid for the work I was doing and for the good work that I knew I was bringing them. And I remember feeling instantly small, as if I had asked for too much or my ambition was too obvious, and I backed off of my request. I felt small, I retreated. He made me feel like I should feel lucky to be in that position. And maybe it's true, it's a competitive world that we're in-

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had worked for that position. I mean, yes, many other people would love to be in that position but you had earned it and you were working.

Ann Shoket:
And probably the worst part is I loved my job, I really did and he knew it. I loved my job, I was engaged, I was doing good work, I was doing work I felt was meaningful. I was on my path to finding what felt like my purpose, I was doing something real. And he used that to make me feel small in a salary negotiation and I didn't go for the big dollars and I didn't push hard and I backed off immediately. And could I do it all over again, I might have left that meeting, gone back to my desk, and then come back with a nuts and bolts, "Here's what other people are making in my position." It was at a time where frankly we didn't have Glass Door, we didn't have a million ways to check our salaries, so I didn't know what other people were making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, was it that other people were making more or that they were just paying you very little? We don't really know I guess, we don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know. But had I had the resources available that we have today and had I had the benefit of greater perspective on the world, I would have taken that moment and figured out how to get paid what I thought I deserved at that time. I would have really pushed for it rather than feeling small and retreating.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now we are years later, you are the voice for so many millennials, you are teaching them so much. What is your lesson from this that you would share to them if they find themselves in a similar situation?

Ann Shoket:
Knowledge is power. So if you know what other people at your level, in your company, who sit next to you in the competitive company, are making then you have a much greater leverage to get paid what you deserve. Women say to me all the time, "I just want to get paid what I'm worth," and I am like, "That's great, except for how do you know what you're worth?" And the only way to know is to share your salary information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
If you walk away from this interview right now with only one thing, it's share your salary information with a trusted colleague, someone who sits next to you, your regular lunch buddy, but share your salary information. It's not gratuitous, it's not for gossip purposes, but it's so that you know and are better prepared when you go into your own salary negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sticking to this theme for your money tip, you've talked about sharing your salary information but are there specific ways and specific resources that you can tell people about that can accomplish this goal? Because it's a little bit awkward to just go up to people and say, "Oh hey, tell me what you're making and I'll tell you what I make and it will be all good." I mean, how do you actually ... Are there certain things that you look for with someone that you feel you can trust them? Are there websites you can go to, are there chat groups? Specifically how does this happen? Because it's awkward, right?

Ann Shoket:
It is awkward and I'll tell you, the first time that someone asked me to ballpark my salary for them it came in an email-

Bobbi Rebell:
And was it a close friend, was it someone you knew well?

Ann Shoket:
It was a colleague.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
Not a close friend. It was a colleague and we had been supportive of each other over the years. And at first I was so shocked, I was like, "Can you believe the nerve of this woman! I would never share my salary information with her!" And I calmed down and tried to get a little perspective and I gave her some sort of halfway information that she may be able to use, I didn't go all the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
In writing, in writing.

Ann Shoket:
I did, I emailed her back in writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
However, if I did it again I would 100% ballpark and tell her the number. I was so stunned by it but I realize she was so ahead of the curve in even asking. And I have since been in a position to help other women where I've talked about what I got paid and about the ins and outs of my book deal to help other women in getting their book deal. I have had women who have helped me as I've been building a speaking practice, women who've been tremendously supportive, because it's all brand new.

Ann Shoket:
You know, one of the things about having careers that are more complicated and more evolved than we ever planned for is that suddenly you're being thrust into totally new arenas and you have to figure out how to take the skills that you have but make them work in new places and in new ways. How do you do that unless somebody gives you the lay of the land? And so that's another piece of this sisterhood, this idea that we should all support each other so that we can rise together as women and be collaborative and powerful.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, just to be specific about this, how do you know when it's okay to trust somebody or do you try to ... You were comfortable doing it in an email, you don't feel you have to pick up the phone or meet someone in person.

Ann Shoket:
I think when you're talking real numbers, I think it's okay to send an email that says, "Hey, can I talk to you about this? I'm interested in finding out what you charge or how you got paid or how the deal went down," in an email, to be clear about what it is that you're asking them. But then to have the real nuts and bolts money conversation in person, I think is probably smart. That's how the last couple of conversations that I've had have gone. But I think it has to be someone you trust, who's not going to feel competitive, someone who's going to give you good, smart information. And I think that you find those people in your network, maybe they're not someone who sits next to you at work, maybe it's not your work wife, although you probably should share some of this information with your work wife. But it is people who are going to be in your life for a while, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
You're going to see them at industry events, you're going to be up for the same jobs, you're going to see them schmoozing here and there, you're going to see them at parities-

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you do if you find out that there's a big disparity?

Ann Shoket:
I think the only thing to do ... I mean, yes, maybe it's awkward with the two of you but I think it's better to say now you know and now you can go to your boss and let them know that you know and to be clear. One of the most interesting things about this transparency that millennials have brought into the world is that Gen Xers are so supremely uncomfortable with it, we think it's TMI and that it's oversharing and that the system, sort of old systems, are set up to keep you in line and to keep you not knowing. And those don't really serve us moving forward, the transparency that millennials are demanding is going to become second nature for all of us. And so I think it's a smart company that honors this kind of transparency rather than shuts it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right, Ann Shoket, I know that you are so busy on the speaker circuit and with all of your projects. Tell us more about what you're up to these days and where people can find you.

Ann Shoket:
So since the TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial, I have actually been doing a ton of speaking. It is, in so many ways, a love letter to millennials, to a generation that I believe is going to lead our future and is changing the way we define power and success. But it's also incredibly important for boomers and Xers, and there's this real tension at work between boomers and Xers and the millennial employees that are coming up behind them. And it is my goal to make everybody come together so that we can rise together as women.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find you?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com is the best, fastest way to find The Big Life, to find my speaking, to find my TED Talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is awesome, by the way. And on social media?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com on Instagram, ann.shoket on Facebook, annshoket on Twitter. You can find me everywhere, I'm very easy to find. A-N-N, S-H-O-K-E-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, this has been amazing.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you Bobbi, I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love how direct Ann was, I feel there were a lot of takeaways but this is what I'm going to focus on. Financial grownup tip number one, create networks and career allies to share pay and career information. But this is what I'm adding, treat it kind of like any successful relationship, in that you need to respect the boundaries and you also need to respect that even though you're being transparent with each other that doesn't mean that the information goes beyond that relationship, you need to respect the other person and their privacy. Be sure to vet someone also before you reveal too much, and keep the information that is said between the two of you, or the group, private unless it is clearly agreed that it is for public disclosure. Ann and I have shared career information and goals, but that remains private.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. When you have these conversations, Ann points out that while you can initiate via email, you should have the real conversation in real life, in person, face to face. Meeting in person is worth the time, at the very least, do it by phone. On your end, you don't want to create a paper trail with information that you don't want to go beyond the intended recipient. No matter how well-intentioned they are, things happen, be secure with your information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The minute this podcast is over, I want everyone to go listen to Ann Shoket's TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial. I will leave a link in the show notes. Then check out her book, The Big Life, and follow her on social media. I want to hear your money story and get some great money tips from you, our listeners. We are going to be starting having one episode a month be a listener as our guest. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, lesson, and money tip you would share.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you like what you are hearing please don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And of course, rate and review the show, especially on iTunes. Anywhere is good, but especially iTunes so more people can learn about the show. And on that note, please share this with a friend so we can share these stories with more people and help them live richer lives. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I adore Ann and I hope you do now too. It was a great episode and here's to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.