Perez Hilton:
Jane King caved in to pressure to buy an apartment with her first son on the way, but soon realized going against her gut created a lot of financial indigestion. Plus tips on how to make sure you get your bills paid on time.
In Jane’s money story you will learn:
-Why Jane decided to buy real estate, against her gut instinct, right when her son was born
-The key consideration that Jane and her husband overlooked when buying property in that location
-The indication in the economic news stories she was reporting that was a red flag to Jane that they were headed for real estate disasters
-How falling interest rates actually created a challenge for Jane and her family
-Why Jane had to move out of the first property
In Jane’s money lesson you will learn:
-How not trusting your gut can cost you a lot of money
-How to apply that theory not just to real estate but also to buying a stock any decision
-Our instincts are often stronger than we think
In Jane’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Jane does all of her bill paying on Saturday
-How that creates a checks and balances system for her
-How we can apply this kind of system to our own lives
In My Take you will learn
-The importance of getting out of big mistakes before they become even worse, even if it is expensive
-How Jane leveraged a layoff into a successful business venture
We also talk about:
-How Jane took a business that was folding at her employer, and created her own entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax media.
-Jane’s podcast about kids and money “KaChing with Jane King”
-About my side-hustle filling in for Jane doing local news updates live from the Nasdaq MarketSite that are seen all over the United States
Episode Links
Learn more about Jane King and LilaMax media at lilamaxmedia.com
Learn more about Jane’s podcast KaChing with Jane King at https://kachingpodcast.com/
Follow Jane!
Twitter https://twitter.com/MarketJane
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marketjane/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jane.king.560
Transcription
Jane King:
I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone! Today's episode features a friend I've known for more than a decade and learned a lot from and I know that you will as well. Jane King is a familiar face to so many of you because she's been anchoring local news business updates for years. First, on CNN, then on Bloomberg, and now with her entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax Media. Named after her two kids, Lila and Max.
Bobbi Rebell:
Even though her official money story has to do with a real estate flop, pay close attention to the extra story she casually slips in about launching her content syndication company, LilaMax. Previously referred to, which continues to grow at a time when so many bigger content companies are struggling. She makes it seems like no big deal, but I was there, and this Mompreneur is holing her own against some heavy competition. Here is Jane King.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jane King! You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jane King:
Great to be here, Bobbi, and I really loved hearing your podcast over the weekend. It's great advice out there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you, and I love your podcast, “KaChing With Jane King” and all of your entrepreneurial ventures. Tell us a little bit about that.
Jane King:
Well, right now I run a company called LilaMax Media. I'll just give you a little history of how this came to be. So, I worked for CNN. I worked for Bloomberg and then the division that I worked for at Bloomberg, in 2013, they decided to shut that down at the end of the year. So, they gave us about a six weeks notice and another guy on my time and I decided just to take it on. We started this company LilaMax Media.
Jane King:
We do broadcast of the NASDAQ Monday through Friday for local TV stations around the country and try to keep up everybody on this very interesting business news atmosphere that we have lately. Oh, my goodness!
Bobbi Rebell:
And, many of my listeners, I'm sure see you on their local morning news, so we love that.
Jane King:
Right. And, I have some great fill ins, like you!
Bobbi Rebell:
I do.
Jane King:
Good help.
Bobbi Rebell:
I do help you out. I love doing it. But, let's talk about your money story, because it has to do with something near and dear to my heart, because I have had a lot of financial security come my way because of real estate investments. You made a big real estate purchase. We were actually all pregnant together, us and a bunch of friends.
Jane King:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
We had our babies all at the same time back in 2007 and we all bought real estate at that time. But, your story is a little bit different from the standard run of the mill story. Tell us what happened.
Jane King:
Well, I got caught up in that whole disaster of what we lived in 2008 and 2009. So, I was working as a financial reporter at the time and I just had this feeling that the housing market was over valued. I, you know, I had even had discussions with people. I'm like, come on, the average house is $250,000. But, the average American is only making like 45 and nothing just added up. So, I just ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so logically, you went to buy a house. A home.
Jane King:
Well, so here's how this all came about. So, we had a friend who was moving and he said “Hey, how would you like to buy our apartment?” And, I was like “Oh, I really don't want to do that.” He was like “Oh, we don't have to pay commissions.” I was pregnant at the time as you mentioned. I thought “Well, gosh, it wouldn't be good for the child to have a house instead of a rental, for some reason. Even though, it kind of makes no sense.” Our accountant weighed in. Said the tax write offs were great so, we bought a home. Let's see. We closed on that in March or May of 2007, and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, right before Max was born?
Jane King:
Right before Max was born and at almost the exact peak of the housing market. When we closed on the home, I think they were around, just under seven percent. Like, six and a half or six point seven.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which, sounds really high right now.
Jane King:
Sounds high right now, but this was 2007. They went all the way down to three something and we just could not take advantage of that because the home values just ... the value of the appraisals were coming in too low. So ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, your equity was not high enough to refinance?
Jane King:
That's right. So, third times a charm. Finally got that done, and of course we paid all the fees and everything in the process. But ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, so much for saving so much on the commission.
Jane King:
So much for saving on the commission. You know, I don't know. You know, it was a co-op. We had trouble selling it because the co-op board was just ... that's another thing. I would never buy in a co-op again.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's go back to the story. So, okay, you get into the apartment. First of all, you wanted to refinance just because the rates were going lower, right?
Jane King:
Oh yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jane King:
We did, but it was, you know, a couple thousand dollars a month difference.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. So, your payments were high, number one. So, number two, then you're being rejected from refinancing because your equity relative to the value of the home was not a good enough ratio.
Jane King:
That's right.
Bobbi Rebell:
And then, number three, why did you want to sell? Why not, once you were able to refinance, why not just hang there?
Jane King:
Well, because it's a co-op and you can't rent it out for more than two years, so another one of those co-op rules that you have to deal with in New York City. So, we could only rent it out for two years and then we had to finally sell it. Because, we had moved to a different neighborhood and we weren't really ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so why did you move then, I guess is the question. Because, you bought it in 2007, why not just live there?
Jane King:
Two things. So, one was the apartment was up by Columbia University and they were taking over the building where my husband had a business. So, we needed to find a new location for the business, and the timing of that was right at the time when my son was entering Kindergarten and the schools in that area, of course, I was pregnant at the time. I didn't even think about to ask about the schools, but the schools in that area were not good schools. So, we moved to a better district where the schools were better. My husband set up a business and, you know in the end, everything's better. But, it's just I don't know. I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were, but you just got to trust your gut. We know more than we think we do.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?
Jane King:
Well, I would think that if you're somewhat informed about finances, trust your gut. Don't let somebody else talk you into something. Whether, it's buying an apartment or buying a stock or buying something else, you know, whatever. I would just trust your gut and really think about it, because I do think we know more instinctively than we think we do.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your every day money tip. Because, this is very basic and yet, sort of brilliant because it probably works. I mean, if it does work for you, I think it would work for a lot of our listeners.
Jane King:
Well, it's so easy. Anybody can do this. I pay all my bills on Saturday morning. It helps me keep all of my accounts in check. I know what the balances are. Nothing is ever paid late. So, I don't have any of the late fees or anything like that. I just set them down. It's part of my morning. My Saturday morning routine along with doing the laundry and doing the dishes, its I sit down and pay the bills. And, it's so easy and I think it's a great tip and anybody can do it. You can start this Saturday!
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes! Or, it can be any day of the week. The point is that you have an appointment with yourself to focus on your finances.
Jane King:
That's right. Saturday morning works well for me. Whatever day happens to work with you is good. It's just I'm a creature of routine and I find that it helps me lead a more organized life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Alright, tell us more about what's going on with your podcast KaChing.
Jane King:
Okay. KaChing with Jane King. It's all about kids and money. It really kind of comes from the financial crisis, because I felt like people were doing irresponsible things because they didn't know. They didn't know that housing doesn't go up forever or that you can't spend more than you earn. You know, things like this, so I really decry the lack of financial education in our schools and in our society. So, I started this little podcast and we have some great guests on there. Authors, and people who come and they talk about, you know, just helping to raise kids so they're financially responsible. KaChing with Jane King.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Check it out. Thank you so much Jane, you're the best!
Jane King:
Thank you Bobbi! Great to see you!
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, there's a lot to take from Jane's story. The first thing though, that strikes me is this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: If you make a real estate mistake. Admit it and get out. Jane did that right. Holding on to something you bought. Just because you bought it, is not going to fix the problem. And yes, you could lose money, but holding on, you could lose even more money. You don't know. So, staying put is just going to add to the pain. When we drill down the key problem with the apartment, was that the schools weren't a fit for Jane's kids. The other issue was that her husband's business was losing its lease. So, by paying the price, and it was expensive, it was painful for her. But, admitting the mistake, her family was able to move to one of, if not, the best public school districts in the entire city. Her husband set up a new business, in a hot neighborhood, with great clientele, and they moved on and they prospered. Digging in their heels and hoping things would just get better would have been a mistake.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's talk about Jane's business, LilaMax Media, which produces content primarily from the NASDAQ market site. So, this is the bonus story that I mentioned at the top. Her previous employer, Bloomberg, was shutting down that line of business. She and her partner, Bob Morris, figured out a way to make the economics work with lower overhead as a smaller company. So, instead of being out of work, Jane actually became the co-founder of a business that is going strong more than four years later.
Bobbi Rebell:
She took a terrible situation and made it into an opportunity of a lifetime and yes, you can see me filling in for Jane, so DM me and say “hi” if you see me on your local news in the early hours of the morning. If you have not already hit that subscribe button, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and be in touch. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell. On Instagram @BobbiRebell1. On Facebook @BobbiRebell and as I said, DM me. I love hearing your feedback on the podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jane had to make some very Grownup decisions as a consequence of that against the gut real estate decision, but she did it. And, it's a great lesson. Trust your gut, and if you find yourself having made the wrong decision, get the heck out. So, thanks Jane for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
High Fiving Dollars' Sarah Li Cain had a contract that said her company had to pay her medical costs, but when she got pregnant, she and her husband had to come up with a strategic plan to actually collect the cash they were owed. Plus her tips on how to make sure you get the luxuries you want in life, without feeling nickel and dime’d
In Sarah’s money story you will learn:
-The challenge Sarah faced when pregnant as a teacher in China
-How the healthcare system there required employees to pay upfront, and then fight to get re-imbursed
-The financial risk that created for Sarah and her colleagues
-How careful documentation helped to get her money back
-The technique Sarah used to negotiate with her employer and her boss for both her healthcare needs and those of her colleagues
In Sarah’s money lesson you will learn:
-That is is essential to read your contract when you take a job, and not assume it will provide things, even if it is the law.
-The importance of standing your ground when you are entitled to something.
In Sarah’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why she is willing to pay more for homes that have the amenities that are important to her and her family
-The importance of building in value-add activities and facilities into your home or community, so you don’t have to spend extra cash to have services and other things that you value but might not pay for on an individual basis.
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of documentation especially when you need to be re-imbursed by an employer
-The tools and apps I personally use for document management and scanning
-My take on lifestyle amenities where you live
-The crazy and outrageous amenities that may not be worth paying for in many cases
Episode Links
Learn more about Sarah at https://highfivingdollars.com/
Listen to her podcast with Garrett Philbin (from Be Awesome not Broke) Beyond the Dollar! https://highfivingdollars.com/podcast/
Follow Sarah Li Cain!
Twitter: @sarahlicain
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/highfivingdollars
Pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/sarahlicain/
The tools I use to store and track documents are
Dropbox dropbox.com
Evernote evernote.com
The App I use to scan documents is Jotnot https://www.jotnot.com/
Here’s a fun article from curbed.com on The Most outrageous amenities in NYC apartments https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/18/16743830/nyc-outrageous-apartment-amenities-2017
Here is one from Elledecor.com on over the top amenities
https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/g14031044/over-the-top-amenities-nyc/
And here is one from Streeteasy.com on What Building Amenities to New Yorkers Want Most?
https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-building-amenities-top-10-most-popular/
Transcription
Sarah Li Cain:
I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. I think I racked up a total about $25,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was holistic money coach Sarah Li Cain of the blog High Fiving Dollars and the podcast Beyond the Dollar, taking a stroll down memory lane to a financial experience she'd probably rather forget. But she got through it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone and thanks for taking the time to join us here at Financial Grownup. We keep the shows on the short side so you can squeeze it into your busy day. But if you have more time, or are commuting, they are also meant to be listened to a few at a time. So when you subscribe, make sure the settings are at auto download and you will get three episodes each week.
Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Sarah. Her story is truly a financial grownup one because it begins with the birth of her first child which is a big life transition in and of itself, without all the financial responsibilities that comes with it, and she had to deal with a lot of money headaches. Here is Sarah Li Cain.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah Li Cain, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm a big fan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh thank you, and I am a huge fan of yours ever since we met a couple of years ago actually at FinCon, which is a conference for content creators, because you were behind High Fiving Dollar and now the new Beyond the Dollar podcast. So congratulations on all of your success.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are a holistic money coach. You also as I mentioned are a financial writer, and you are also someone who has worked all over the world, which brings us to the money story that you brought with you to share because it has to do with the time that you spent in China and something momentous that happened while you were there. Tell us.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, so actually spent a total about eight years in China. So before I was a writer and a money coach I was a elementary school teacher at a bunch of different international schools. My very last job, my husband and I found out that were pregnant. The interesting thing was in my contract the employer actually didn't pay for healthcare. So it's the employer legally has to provide you with healthcare, and so instead of actually giving us health insurance he had a little clause at the bottom of the contract that basically said we will reimburse 100% of any healthcare cost that you incur.
Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds really good.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah, it does, except if you don't have the money upfront and pay for that, then it makes it very difficult. And so for some of my coworkers-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to front the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. For some of my coworkers it was very difficult for them, number one, the ones who have children, they had to cover all their healthcare cost, and number two, I remember one of my coworkers had ... It wasn't major surgery but it was fairly big. She actually [inaudible 00:03:28] having to borrow money to cover that, until the employer was willing to basically reimburse it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait. Was it a situation where you would have to pay out of pocket and then basically fight to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, exactly. So as long you had the receipt in theory they were going to pay you back. I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because healthcare is fairly cheap in China, but I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. So I think I racked up a total about $25,000 American, including the birth, including the prenatal and postnatal care.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to forward that money, you had to pay that, and then try to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One thing I did try to do was as the receipts payments, so every month when I'd have my prenatal appointments I would just sent, forward the receipt to my ... the owner of the school. Then the principal and I sat down and I said, "Listen, you know this is going to get really expensive. I'm going forward the boss or the owner a big, big bill, probably at least 10 grand after all of my prenatal appointments. He's going to have to be very careful because he's going to make sure, like, he's going to have that money and give it me." The principal and I actually worked together and figured out a way to approach the owner and how we were ... She was going to help me get that. The principal was going to help me get that money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was the school which is almost an independent school that did not have big financial resources, was that part of the issue why you were worried they wouldn't have the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Part of it was the owner was new. I think he had taken over that school maybe for about a year, and number two, he's been, and this like anecdotal evidence, I haven't directly heard him say this but he's always mentioned about try to pay as little as possible for the foreign staff as he called us, and so I kind of knew that if I slapped him with this $25,000 bill that he'd probably pretty shocked and would try to find a way out of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened?
Sarah Li Cain:
I actually added up, I predicted all the cost for the birth and everything like that and I forwarded it to my principal. Then again the principal and I sat down and we basically said, "Okay, what's the best case scenario, what's the worst case, where can we meet in the middle with him." So we kind of came up with different ways to negotiate with him. The best case was he gives all that money back to me in one go. The second the best was if he paid in installments. And the worst case he refused.
Sarah Li Cain:
But I also said, "Hey, listen, I'm a great employee," and I actually calculated how many students that I brought into the school, so it kind of proved to him that like, hey, I'm helping you make money so therefore this little $25,000 expense wasn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. What happened then was my principal then forwarded all of this information to the owner of the school and he actually agreed and was like, "Okay, I will pay all this back, I'll reimburse you as soon as you provide all the bills."
Bobbi Rebell:
And did they?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. So they did try to fight us a little bit. After my son was born my husband was the one to submit all the bills and so. Then they negotiated with him and said, "Well, we can't pay all this all at once. Is there some way we can just pay you back in increments?" So they did I think pay us the money back in about five installments but we did end up getting all the money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, that's great. But you used this to actually make broader changes.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. The funny thing was I had no idea that my principal was trying to fight for everyone to get free health insurance. Again, the owner of the school had to legally provide this. She actually ended up using the large medical bill to say to the owner, was like, "Hey, listen, what if another one of your employees gets pregnant. That's like a huge cost," and then she actually presented him with different health insurance options in China and how it ended up being cheaper. And so because of what happened with me, the entire staff actually got free health insurance afterwards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So how did you feel during this time? I mean you're pregnant, you're having to fight for all this stuff. What were your coworkers saying?
Sarah Li Cain:
It was really interesting. My coworkers didn't necessarily directly ask me about the money side of things because I think in their mind they're like, "Oh man, Sarah's really going to have to fight for this money because the owner is such a cheapskate," as they called him. I was really thankful because ... So my husband and I worked together, and so he really advocated for me when I couldn't, like when I was out on maternity leave and when I was just too tired to really say anything. So he would push me like, "No, listen, Sarah, you have to fight this," or he would go in himself and then talk to the principal which I found out later that he did, and say like, "Here, how can we negotiate all of this?" If it wasn't for his support, I probably wouldn't be able to keep pursuing the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?
Sarah Li Cain:
The lesson is number one, read your contract, and number two, stand your ground. If it says in your contract that you're supposed to get something, then fight for it because it's written down, it's not a verbal contract, it's a written contract, so definitely pursue it, and get as much support as you need in order to pursue it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back is there anything you would've done different yourself?
Sarah Li Cain:
No, not at all.
Bobbi Rebell:
And Sarah, that brings us to your everyday money tip which also kind of has to do with your health and wellness.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One of the things I really strive to do is that whenever my husband and I are renting a new place, or when we're looking for a new apartment, we always make sure the kind of amenities there are. We're always looking for somewhere with a gym, how easy it is to walk from let's say the supermarket or my son's preschool, if there's a swimming pool, and just anything else where we don't have to spend extra money. For example, an apartment that we just rented is actually a five minute walk to my son's preschool, it's a few minutes walk to a couple of supermarkets, it's actually closer to my husband's work, it's got a gym, it's got a swimming pool, it's got a playground for my son. So we're effectively saving thousands of dollars a year because now that I can walk with my son to preschool, I don't need a second car. I can just walk again to the supermarket when I need to. I'm saving money on membership fees, things like that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right, Sarah, tell us more about what you're up to. I know you have started season two of your podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. So Beyond the Dollar I co-host it with another money coach, Garrett Philbin. We're just having a lot of fun. We discuss a lot of issues that go literally beyond the dollar, just not practical finance tips, but more of the deeper how money really affects your well being. You can also find me in High Fiving Dollars. I talk a lot about my personal life there. If you have any questions, I love answering reader questions there as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Sarah.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that Sarah and her husband paid it forward fighting for everyone else to have real health insurance even after they had won their own battle. Financial Grownup tip number one, whenever you know you're going to need to be reimbursed, as was the case with Sarah and her husband, document everything and make sure you have backups including electronic backups. I happen to use Evernote and Dropbox for storage, and I use an app called JotNot as a mobile scanner, and from that app I can upload to the Evernote and/or Dropbox accounts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you follow up on getting reimbursed, and on bills sometimes the way that the healthcare system is set up may not be as well-run as you would necessarily expect. If you want to learn more about the dangers of what can happen if you're not on top of these things, check out my interview with Chris Browning of the Popcorn Finance podcast. Just go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/chrisbrowning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, let's talk about lifestyle amenities because I know Sarah's a big fan of them. She makes this a priority. There's an upside and there's a downside. If you have amenities built into your rent or your home cost, you don't have to worry that if money gets tight or you just have a lot of expenses coming up or you're feeling uneasy about your financial situation, you're not going to feel pressured to say take a break from the gym. On the other hand, they do add to your overhead in most cases and if you're not going to use certain amenities, you need to factor that in and be honest with yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, just about all of us can at least make the argument that we can make good use of a gym. We might blow it off in reality, but we can at least make the case. That might be worth paying for when you're looking for a new residence, especially if it's in a community or an apartment building that has a really nice one. But if you don't have young kids, something like a playground does not add value to your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Those are pretty mainstream amenities, but some buildings can even have quirky amenities that sound so cool like wine cellars, relaxation lounges, climbing walls, hydrotherapy circuits, bowling allies, pet spas, and of course dog training studio, something we all look for. They are designed to wow buyers and renters, but just because something looks super cool when you're checking out the residence, doesn't mean it's something that you're going to actually use. If they deliver value for you, that's great. But some are just gimmicky and can up the prices. By the way, if you want to read about some of the crazy things happening in the amenities business, I'm going to leave a few fun articles about hot new amenities in the show notes for you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already hit that Subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, remember, the episodes are short, about 15 minutes, so if you want to listen for longer, there are three new episodes every week so you can easily binge on a bunch if you have a long commute or you're just running errands and you want a little more content.
Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook @bobbirebell, and of course DM me your feedback on the podcast. Thanks to Sarah Li Cain and her growing family for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Carol Roth’s father left a priceless gift when he passed. Now, she is using that to help others map out their plans for everything from their social media accounts, to their cryptocurrency and bitcoin assets, using her innovative FutureFile system.
In Carol’s money story you will learn:
-How losing close members of her family and loved ones impacted her outlook on life, and on finances
-How she got a credit card at the age of 10!
-Why her dad was so concerned about preparing his children for his eventual death
-How her dad created a filing system and what it included
In Carol’s money lesson you will learn:
-How Carol and her siblings used the file her dad created
-Exactly how much money it saved her and her family, both in actual money but also in the time they did not have to spend on estate related issues
-The mental relief the family had because of the system their dad had put in place
In Carol’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Carol believes no one should own depreciating assets
-How we can enjoy things like private jets without having to own them (JK)
-What kinds of investments we should be making instead of in things like cars and boats and planes
-The best use of our transportation dollars
Carol also talks about her business Futurefile.com
-Why she created it
-What it contains including not just places for wills and basic estate planning but also places to put cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin, and how to manage social media
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of making a plan, any plan, for when you are ill or pass away
-My experience knowing my mom’s wishes when she passed
-My take on whether you should own a car, and why I don’t fully agree with Carol
-Alternatives ways to save money if you do choose to have a car
EPISODE LINKS
Learn more about Carol Roth at https://www.carolroth.com/
Learn more about FutureFile at FutureFile.com
Follow Carol!!
Twitter @Caroljsroth
Facebook CarolJSRoth
Carol recommended not buying a private plane and instead using
NETJETS.com
More about Carol!
Carol Roth is the creator of the Future File® legacy planning system, “recovering” investment banker, billion-dollar dealmaker, investor, entrepreneur, business advisor, national media personality and author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Entrepreneur Equation.
Carol “plays herself on TV” weekly, having been a reality TV show judge (Mark Burnett’s America’s Greatest Makers on TBS), media contributor to outlets ranging from CNBC to Fox Business, and host of Microsoft’s Office Small Business Academy. She’s recognized internationally as a business expert and has worked with startups to the biggest companies and brands in the world on everything from strategy to content creation and marketing to billions of dollars in capital raising and transactional work.
Carol is dedicated to helping families prepare for and save time, cost and grief that comes with aging, medical issues and passing life events through her Future File products. She is a also former public company director and is a noted small business advocate. She invests in early and mid-stage companies as well.
Carol counts among her “accomplishments” having an action figure made in her own likeness, getting a standing ovation from Richard Branson and having the NFL follow her on Twitter.
Transcription
Carol Roth:
He was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that. I would have spent the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was business expert, Carol Roth. She is author of the bestseller, "The Entrepreneur Equation." You may have also caught her as a judge on the reality TV show, "America's Greatest Makers" on TBS. She's also seen a lot on TV: CNBC, Fox Business. You probably caught her. Her latest venture is called Future File. It's an idea that grew out of her own personal experiences with losing loved ones.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to Carol's interview, a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we try to keep the shows short to match your busy life. But if you're traveling, commuting and have more time, feel free to binge. You can learn more about Financial Grownup at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast where you can also sign up for our newsletter.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Carol because this interview was a real wake-up call for me on a lot of things that I just don't want to deal with, but Carol is a force to be reckoned with. Here is Carol Roth. Hey, Carol Roth, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Carol Roth:
Bobbi, it is so great to be here and to be all grown up with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you. It is a process for all of us, let me tell you. Many people already know you but, for those who don't, you are a big personality on TV. You are an author of the bestselling book "The Entrepreneur Equation," and you also have a business which is really an important business. We're going to talk about it a little bit more in-depth later in the show. But, it also ties into your money story because your money story led to it. Tell us your money story, Carol Roth.
Carol Roth:
This started when I was a senior in college. So I'm mourning the loss of somebody I had been in a relationship for a year and a half. I go off. I start my career, and my mom was diagnosed with leukemia. A year after that she passed, the day after her 51st birthday. So then I'm mourning these two losses. Then my stepmother, a few years later, is diagnosed with lung cancer, and she passes away at age 55. So at this point in time, my father, who despite not having a formal education, was very financially savvy. My dad was a union electrician. It was amazing. He couldn't spell banana. He spelled it bana, but he was the type of guy, he opened up a credit card for me somewhere around age 10 to establish my credit history.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. You got a credit card at age 10? First of all, they let you have that?
Carol Roth:
They did. Back in the day with a cosigner, as long as he co-signed on it, they didn't care, right? After we endure all these losses he says, “If something were to happen to me, and you and your sister have been through this now multiple times, if something were to happen to me, you guys wouldn't necessarily be prepared. So I'm gonna help you prepare.” Dad kept giving us pieces of paper, and the pieces of paper were, "I don't want you to spend this much money on a casket, I just want this. I don't want you to have two services. I just want a graveside service. Here's my insurance policy for this, and here's my wishes on this." Every time he'd give us a piece of paper, he'd say, "Stick it in the file."
Carol Roth:
So we had this running joke that we had this death file. We go okay, dad, whatever. We just continually collected information. As I said, my dad wasn't formally educated. So, low and behold, five years ago in May, my sister calls me on the phone and is like, "Carol, you know that file that dad has? Grab it and meet me at the hospital. He has been in a freak accident."
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. This is just a paper file. This is not in any kind of cloud storage, on the computer, nothing?
Carol Roth:
No, this is literally a hard copy, accordion file folder with backs of envelopes, paper plates, envelopes, policies, wishes, this kind of amalgamation of information. Oh, and also keys, we had keys to his car, keys to security-
Bobbi Rebell:
So he made copies of the keys for everything?
Carol Roth:
Yes, everything.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Carol Roth:
Copies of everything, hard copies. So I literally, physically grabbed this file, Bobbi, and I run to the hospital. He had been in this horrible accident, and he was completely out of it, bleeding on the brain. They said, "Do you want us to operate?" We went through, said, "Okay, what does Dad say about this? Okay, Dad says that yes, he wants you to operate." So they went ahead and operated. When he came out, he just never recovered. He was just basically brain dead and being kept alive by machines. So we pull out the piece of paper, including the power-of-attorney that said that we have the authorization to make these decisions. Then we pull out the wishes that Dad had. Dad had said if we've gone through a relevant number of tests and we've gotten a few opinions and everybody's come to the same conclusion that the machines are keeping him alive, to pull the plug. We followed Dad's instructions, and obviously he did not make it. Then we had to go through laying the body to rest within a few days, all of the services and wrapping up his personal affairs.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the lessons for our listeners from your story?
Carol Roth:
The benefits that we got that you can get if you preplan is that we saved a lifetime of burden, which is priceless. I don't have to walk around shouldering did I make the right decision in this particular scenario? Should I have gotten another opinion? Because my dad had talked through it, he had written it down, I knew what his wishes were, You can't put a financial price on that. That is priceless.
Carol Roth:
The second thing, from a financial standpoint, is we saved more than 10000 tangible dollars, Bobbi. I'm not even joking. End-of-life costs, what people don't realize, are so incredibly expensive. Average just funeral and burial is $8500. Cremation with a funeral service is close to $7000. So just by going through this, we saved more than $10000, and then the five figures that we did end up spending on all of these sort of end-of-life things, he had put end-of-life insurance in place. So it's something that we didn't have to come up with that money or go into his estate and try and figure that out. So there's a tangible dollar savings.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's the money that you did not spend? Did you not have a funeral that he didn't want? What money did you save because of knowing his wishes?
Carol Roth:
So we saved money on the casket. If you go with a Cadillac of caskets, it could be 6500. It could be $9500. You can get one at Costco for $600. So he was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that, I would have spent the money. So he told us not to do that. He told us to only have a graveside service. So instead of going into the funeral home and having the whole spiel there and then moving everybody to graveside and having a second spiel there, he didn't want that. He said just do the graveside. He didn't want flowers. He didn't want accoutrements. He didn't want programs.
Carol Roth:
Then I'm Jewish, so we do something called sitting shiva, which is similar to sort of visitation in the Christian religion. For that, he said, "Go to our clubhouse. Do it just the day of. Just have this and that and the other thing." By the instructions that he put out, we saved money there. So when we added it all up, it was well into the five figures. Then, as I said, we ended up spending five figures on stuff on top of that, but just the five figures of savings was incredible.
Carol Roth:
Then the other cost that is an indirect cost but was so incredibly valuable is he saved me hundreds of hours of time. If you look at how much I make in an hour, that's tangibly multiple six figures. So 200 at least, maybe 300, hours in trying to track down all of his accounts, all of his policies, making sure that we had everything, trying to find things like that safety deposit box key, making sure that he didn't have a treasure hunt for us somewhere where there was money hidden that we didn't know about. That's real money. I know people don't think of it that way. Sometimes people don't think of their time as money, but there is a true, tangible money cost associated with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You also brought with you a money tip. Awkwardly switching topics, but this has to do with depreciating assets, not investing in things that are going to go down in value.
Carol Roth:
Right. So basically, if it drives, floats or flies, you don't want to own it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So I shouldn't aspire to get my private jet?
Carol Roth:
No, buy a NetJet card because when you have an asset, something that quote, unquote "invest in," that decreases in value every time you use it, that's not the kind of investment that you want to be making. But if you have a car and you're living in the city or you're living somewhere else and you don't drive that often, or maybe you're a multiple car household and you have an extra car that you really can do without, sell it. Because the amount of money that you have tied up in that car plus ongoing maintenance plus the cost of gas plus the cost of insurance, you have to license it every year, and some places you have to pay for parking, it's a huge amount of wasted money. We have so many options for transportation now. You have these on-demand services like Uber and Lyft. Obviously, taxis are becoming more competitive because of that. If you do need to go somewhere for a couple of days, you have rental car agencies that will actually deliver the car to you.
Carol Roth:
So if you go through and you write down how much it's going to cost you to take those couple of Ubers and maybe to rent the car a couple of times a year and you add all that up versus how much money that you're spending invested in that car and all of these other maintenance items and you compare the two, I guarantee you there will be no comparison.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I do want to talk about your latest project because it came from these experiences with loved ones. It's called Future File, and it's genius. So please tell us a little bit about it.
Carol Roth:
When we told people our story, the feedback was so often, "I need to do that for my parents or grandparents." Or "I need to do that for my spouse." Or "I need to do that for myself. I don't know what's going on in the household." Or "We've got kids." So we took this prototype that our dad created for us, and we created a full kit called Future File at futurefile.com. It's basically a roadmap that walks you through everything you need to organize all of your wishes and information for either aging, passing or other family emergencies. So if somebody has a stroke or your house is burning down or whatever it is, it's one location that literally has access to everything you could possibly need. It helps you organize your wills and your powers-of-attorney. Also, your social media wishes, the budgeting that we talked about for long-term care, aging care, end of life. Even a place to put your cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. I know because you could have that, and then no one can get to it.
Carol Roth:
Well, that's the thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
They have to know.
Carol Roth:
Literally, it's not like a bank account that eventually, after hours and hours and hours and showing death certificates and going through probate, that you can access. If somebody doesn't have those keys, it's lost forever. So we didn't want to create any barriers to people doing this, so there's no subscription model. It's one-time. It's just under a hundred bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow, that's it? That's amazing.
Carol Roth:
Yeah, if you listen to the story and you understand those burdens, it makes sense. So do it. Prepare yourself, prepare your family, and you'll help us give that gift that our father gave to us to you and your family.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and Future File?
Carol Roth:
Yes. So Future File, go to futurefile.com. Tons of information there. The best place to find me, especially if you have a little bit of an odd and off-color sense of humor, is on Twitter at caroljsroth.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you, Carol.
Carol Roth:
Thanks so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
So that was pretty heavy stuff but important to hear. I personally would prefer to just live in denial, but if we're going to be grownups, it's going to catch up to us sooner or later.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. I think Carol did a great job getting her point across. No plan is actually a burden on your survivors. So make a plan. Include traditional assets, but also, if you can, leave instructions for the less tangible things. Try to envision the kind of decisions that will be made if you would pass or if you were very ill. If you don't want to decide for them, empower them to make the decision that they think is best without worrying about what you would think. When my mom passed, she was very specific about a few things for my dad and for me and for my siblings, and that gave us all comfort and the freedom to know she was okay with our choices.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Carol talked a lot about getting rid of cars. So here's the thing. She may be right financially, but let's face it, for some people, it's just part of their lifestyle. It's like asking someone whose only joy is that latte to give up their latte. They need to cut something different. You can find a workaround. So in this case, maybe cut expenses that are related to the car or the asset that is depreciating. One option, renegotiate your insurance. Shop around. Consolidating your insurance can also be a way to lower the cost. Also, if you park in a garage, maybe you can park on the street. Can you renegotiate the garage fee? Is there a tax break associated with the garage if you are resident? We get that here in New York City. If you park at work, can your company reimburse or subsidize the parking? For those of us who have private jets, for example, we know fuel is getting more expensive. One way to pare back costs ... okay, I was just kidding about the whole private jet thing. Anyway, moving on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. Hit subscribe if you can, and we'd love reviews and feedback. So thank you in advance if you can squeeze that into your day. Let's all try to find time soon to make a future file. Thank you, Carol Roth, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Broadway Roulette founder and CEO Liz Durand Streisand literally gave birth to her child just as her business came to life. Having that dual focus on the baby and Broadway Roulette created the perspective and balance to keep push past challenges and grow them both.
Celebrity journalist turned CEO creating a new marketplace model to buy and sell event tickets. After a decade in the trenches of New York's entertainment scene, Liz saw the opportunity to pair expiring inventory to cultural events with consumers who were being bombarded by choice overload -- and Broadway Roulette was born. Broadway Roulette's key investors include Jesse Draper of Halogen Ventures and Randi Zuckerberg of Zuckerberg media. In 2018, Broadway Roulette was accepted to Morgan Stanley's Multicultural Innovation Lab, an accelerator focused on female and minority-led companies positioned to disrupt industries.
In Liz’s money story you will learn:
-About Liz’s background as an entertainment and lifestyle journalist journalist covering celebrities like the Kardashians
-How she and her co-founder husband came up with the idea for affordable tickets to ALL Broadway shows
-Why the business morphed from a hobby to a business
-How they launched the business at the same time he was making a career change and their child was born, and the challenges that came with it
-How being a busy mom impacted the business- as a positive
In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of choosing a life partner that really sees you as a true life partner
-How Liz breaks down big projects into smaller and more manageable tasks
In Liz’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Liz feels hiring a stylist is worth the money
-How it will save you money
-Specific ways to find the stylist that is right for you and your budget
In my take you will learn:
-How to get tickets to Broadway shows and other live events at deep discounts
-Ways to find free tickets to events and shows
Episode Links
Learn more about Broadway Roulette at Broadwayroulette.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missdurand/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/broadwayroulette/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/missdurandnyc?lang=en
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BWayRoulette?lang=en
Here are some options for discount and free Broadway tickets:
http://www.playbill.com/article/broadway-rush-lottery-and-standing-room-only-policies-com-116003
https://www.nytix.com/Links/Broadway/lotteryschedule.html
Great article in the penny hoarder on getting free and discount theater tickets!
https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/smart-money/discount-theatre-tickets/
Seat fillers!
https://seatfillersandmore.com/
https://www.theaterextras.com/about.aspx
You could even go to the Oscars!!
https://www.refinery29.com/2018/01/189571/oscars-seat-filler-academy-awards-interview
Transcription
Liz Durand:
One day I was at the box office in labor, but didn't know it, buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby, buying tickets again. And the box office manager, there's two that are women, the one who was at the window that moment looked at me and was like, what just happened? Where is your baby?
Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own we got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, it is summer time to get out and do some fun things, oh but that budget. Well, this show is for you wherever you live. I hope this inspires you to go to live theater or go to a concert or whatever you enjoy. Just get out because it can be affordable in part because there are more and more disruptors in the entertainment business, like our guest who heads up Broadway Roulette. Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe to the podcast, we try to keep it to about 15 minutes to fit easily into your schedule. If you have more time, you can binge on, more episodes, especially if you're in a long car ride, going somewhere to visit friends. Maybe you're visiting some friends in New York. Our guests, Liz Durand Streisand knows all about that. Before she and her husband became parents, they had a lot of friends staying with them in their New York City apartment because they had something you don't hear about very often here in New York City, a spare bedroom. So their friends would come and they would want to see shows, but the big Broadway shows, the ones that they had heard of, we're always either sold out or ridiculously expensive. Fast forward, Liz and her husband came up with a way to disrupt the old Broadway discount model. Let's spend a money story with Broadway Roulette's Liz Durand Streisand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Liz Durand Streisand you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Liz Durand:
Thank you for having me, so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn more about Broadway Roulette. What is Broadway Roulette?
Liz Durand:
Broadway Roulette, it's basically price Priceline for Broadway with only two levels of bids. So you go onto the site and tell us when you want to go and how many tickets you're looking for and set some basic criteria about the type of show you want to see or don't want to see. And then the morning of the show you get an email that's like, surprise this is the show you're seeing and all the tickets are a flat price, so you don't have to like negotiate with your friends or look for discounts are stand in lines.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. We're going to talk more about that in a minute, but I want to talk about your money story because it ties into Broadway roulette. This happens all the time I feel, people are going through major life changes in their personal life. They're having babies, they're getting married, they're moving. All these things are happening and that is exactly when the greatest business opportunity ever just drops in their lap. Tell us your money story.
Liz Durand:
So I liked to be very orderly and very type A, which made me a good New Yorker for many years and I wanted to do things in the order that made sense and I saved 10% of my paycheck every month and did all that good stuff. I had a career as a journalist. I've been doing it for about a decade. I was very settled. It was very steady.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being modest, you were a very top entertainment journalist.
Liz Durand:
Yeah I was probably like the most prolific entertainment journalist in New York City for a decade. I wrote for every major publication that anyone has read on their phone, on the subway, on the way to work, hoping no one is seeing the story they're reading about the Kardashians. That was me.
Bobbi Rebell:
But they loved it.
Liz Durand:
But They loved to, and I actually really enjoyed it. And I would married. And then I finally was able to have a baby, which was very exciting, but at the same time that that happened HIS business that we had started kind of, not like as a joke, but as a hobby. It was sort of a side project just to see if anything would happen. And you know, two days after I gave birth, we landed this major contract with our first Broadway show and it was time to decide like go big or go home. He was actually in a very cushy family office job and it was about six weeks after I had the baby that he decided that would be a great time for him to leave that job and go basically be what I call a financial, a cowboy, to strike out on his own.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also in that time period this financing comes through.
Liz Durand:
Yeah, it was right around the same time. We had been sort of casually talking to friends and family about, hey, would you want to give us money for this weird thing we built in our living room? And that none of us know really that much about. And it turned out that the answer was yes. We met with two, they were technically venture firms but they were friends and they both said yes within a few hours of meeting us and that kind of, the tide turned and all the checks came in and all of a sudden it was just time to go for it. And you know, the timing was terrible in the sense that it's like I was nursing every three hours. I had just had a baby, my husband had just left his job, but the timing was also the timing. That's when it was. So it was the perfect timing because that was the only time if I didn't say yes to that money then, they weren't going to come back in six months and say, "Oh, can I give you money now?" They're giving the money now. So now is the time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So what happened next?
Liz Durand:
So what happened next is I briefly lost my mind. I was working around the clock literally, plus not sleeping because I was taking care of the baby. So I was running out to buy Broadway tickets in the two hour pocket-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you were, just to be clear, you're literally, it looks like you've got this massive company going on. You, Liz are going out and literally procuring these tickets.
Liz Durand:
Yes. So like one day at the box office and I was in labor but didn't know it buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby buying tickets again and the box office manager, there's two that are women in Broadway and the one who was at the window that moment was a woman and she looked at me and was like, "What just happened? Where, where is your baby?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.
Liz Durand:
But I think that's just ... on one hand I was very out of sorts because there's just all the drama that you just had a baby. But on the other hand was actually really nice for me to have something that was like the anchor and a goal that was unrelated to becoming a mother. That was, I have this business that is growing that needs my attention and the act of like leaving my apartment and running around in 95 degree weather and buying tickets at the theaters and begging people to hold them for me, actually was something that was very familiar at that point. And it gave me a sense of stability during a time that felt like it could have been just like spiraling out of control. In a weird way it was actually nice to do something over and over that wasn't that enjoyable, but that I knew how to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what is your takeaway for the listeners? If they experience something like that? And a lot of people do. Not that situation, but the convergence of different parts of their lives at the same time.
Liz Durand:
I think there's two things. I think it's important that you pick a life partner who truly sees you as a partner. Whether you want to pursue business or you just want to, do something else with your time. You want to work on charity, you want to take care of your kids. Having someone who's going to back you and they're going to back you, not because they necessarily agree with everything you want to do, but because they agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do and you should use the corded is the number one thing. The second thing is just breaking big projects down into small manageable tasks. Like when you're sitting there and you're trying to nurse and the baby's not latching on and you haven't slept in like eight hours. It feels like that's never going to end and your life is never, this is going to be your future forever and I think it's important to break down that bigger thing into a smaller task like all I have to do right now is try for 10 more minutes and then I'm going to put the baby down and I'm going to go buy these Broadway tickets and when I get back I'll try again.
Liz Durand:
And I'm going to give myself permission right now to not think that because this one moment didn't work that the rest of my life isn't going to work.
Bobbi Rebell:
You also have an everyday money tip that I had not really thought of. I've resisted doing this, but you made me think about it very differently and I'm really excited to kind of consider this.
Liz Durand:
My money is if you are a woman with limited time, hire a stylist immediately. Unless you love shopping as an actual recreational pastime and it's something you do socially or you find it relaxing, cut it out. You don't need to be doing it. Hire someone the money you pay that person to accrue all the clothes for you, will be paid out in spades because they will number one, find things that are $25 that look like $200 or $2000. And number two, all that time that you would have spent trying things on at the store feeling bad about yourself, you can instead spend on something that is more valuable to you, like an extra hour at the park with your child or sending three extra emails that wouldn't have gotten done because you just wasted an hour at Bloomingdale's staring at 300 pairs of shoes and bought nothing.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know my hesitation is, oh, it feels so frivolous to spend money paying someone to shop for me, and then what if they make me buy things are too expensive. I don't want to spend that much money. I feel like there's a lot of reasons people resist that kind of thing.
Liz Durand:
Well you need to find one who you're comfortable with who you can say to them, "I don't like this, I'm not buying it." But if you find the right one, it saves you so much time and so much money because you get an entire wardrobe that's like $25 dresses and then you have one handbag that goes with all those dresses that was a splurge, and now everything looks like it was a splurge. And I just think the emotional toll and the energy toll of shopping if you don't enjoy it, is so high. There's something to be said for outsourcing things so that you have time to work on things that add value. Like if you're not standing at Bloomingdale's, being miserable, finding things you don't like, that time can be spent on finding new clients. That time can be spent on something that generates revenue, that pays for the stylists, plus stylists are frankly not that expensive. They can shop in an hour, what it takes you, takes me four hours to find a dress that I don't really like, but I've finally given up because my friend's wedding is tomorrow and I need something. That's my shopping experience. My stylist in one hour, she's got me a wardrobe for the next six months.
Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find a stylist?
Liz Durand:
I think Instagram is a great place to go. As much as I have a love hate relationship with social media, I think if you find someone who's page you like who has style that looks like yours, that's a great place to go and find someone. It's also great to ask your friends because any of your friends that have really good style like that, I'd bet ne of them is using a stylist. A lot of people [inaudible 00:10:47] tell you unless you ask. It's like a dirty little secret.
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about Broadway Roulette. One of the many things that impresses me is that if I go to one of the traditional ticket booths to buy a discount ticket, the shows that I see on the board are often the shows that are having a lot of trouble filling seats. When I go to Broadway Roulette, the shows are the ones we all want those tickets for. How does that happen?
Liz Durand:
Well, to be fully transparent, every Broadway show, except for the top like five average, have about 25% of their seats empty on any given night. There's very, very few shows that are actually sold out all the time consistently. The ones on the board in Times Square, which I affectionately call the wall of shame. It doesn't mean that they're terrible shows and it doesn't mean that you don't want to see it or that they have tons of empty etas, it means that the people that are behind that show have done the math and figured out that they'd rather have these seats sell at whatever price they're offering it there than have them go empty. There's other shows that decide they'd rather just not do that and not have their name up there and not have the seats all sell. So it is actually more of a management question then like a quality of the show question, but the way that our system works, we work directly with the Broadway shows. One of our big sales pitches to the show partners is, it's not an advertised discount or customers don't know what they're buying and so it protects your brand in a way that's very unique compared to like a big slash through it that says 80% off.
Liz Durand:
And because our brand partners to us as a company that is sort of based on the concept of rising tide lifts all boats versus race to the bottom, we're able to broker better seats at cheaper rates than you can find on public discount. And the second part of that is that we make a conscious effort to include, we literally send people to every single show on Broadway regularly. And that's a marketing expense for us. And the reason we do that is that we're not primarily a discounter where a discovery platform. So there's tickets to Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen and Hello Dolly and all the shows that you won't be able to see if you go to the TKTS booth, though I do think there's a time and place for that and no shade to TKTS. If you're not beholden to a particular show, this is a great way to see everything. And our customers do use our service over and over and over and we eliminate every show that you've ever seen through us every time you spin. So you can go 30 times and see 30 different shows.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is also a great business model because it promotes loyalty.
Liz Durand:
Yes it encourages repeat business. The thing I like about that part of the model especially, I mean really and truly is let's say we have a customer that we send to Miss Saigon that show's closed now, but let's say we send them to Miss Saigon. They have a great experience. That then prompts them to buy another ticket through Broadway Roulette. We then send them to, let's say, Phantom. We've now basically the experience that Miss Saigon has helped sell a ticket for Phantom. So our argument is that all the shows that work with us are helping each other versus competing for the consumer business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. Liz, where can people learn more about Broadway Roulette and about you?
Liz Durand:
Well, you can learn about Broadway Roulette on our site, it's just broadwayroulette.com. It's simple fun and easy, which is sort of our sales pitch. And the best place to follow me is just my Instagram account, which is just Miss Durand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that.
Liz Durand:
Lot's of cute pictures, if don't want to see cute pictures of the child don't follow my Instagram.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well thank you so much.
Liz Durand:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Liz's story resonates on so many levels, but let's start with the one that's the most fun, which is getting tickets for what you want for less money. Financial Grownup tip number one, just because you don't have a big budget doesn't mean you can't see big shows. First of all, Broadway Roulette, as we discussed, is a game changer. But I'm also going to give you some other options, all of which have pros and cons. Obviously with Broadway Roulette you can see the best shows for less, but you do give up some control. Personally, I think that for as little as 49 bucks a ticket, that is part of the fun, but okay, maybe you're just in town for one night and you want to see a very specific show. You want another option. Most Broadway and off Broadway shows sell rush tickets and they also have lotteries.
Bobbi Rebell:
Some are online and some you do have to go in person. They can run for as little as $10 as is the case of Hamilton. Most are around 40 bucks, but yes, you can see Hamilton for as little as 10 bucks. You've got to be really lucky though, but it's there. Broadway shows also have standing room tickets. They are often under 30 bucks. Also look for student and active military discounts. Links that will tell you all the details for each show are going to be in the show notes. Financial Grownup tip number two, better than discount is free. Free entertainment this summer, there's also free theater in many cities. For example, right here in New York City where I live, we have free Shakespeare in the park. So you can wait in line, got to get up early, but you can also enter the online lottery. So if you've got to be at work, it's okay. Just remember to do this. I've always been able to get tickets at least once per summer. You may have to try a bunch of times, but you know what? Just set a reminder on your phone to enter each day and you're good to go wherever you live there are opportunities.
Bobbi Rebell:
One option, for example, get social. Follow the venue on social media of what you want to see. Sometimes if a theater isn't full, they will actually offer free or heavily discounted tickets to followers. You can also see things for free if you're willing to volunteer at a theater, maybe ushering or doing various other jobs to support the production. One thing I've yet to do but I hear about and I'm so curious about is being a seat filler. I'll leave links in the show notes, but basically you attend show tapings or live musicals or plays so they don't have empty seats and the stigma that goes with them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. Thank you all for spending your time with us. It means a lot as do the social media DM's and shares that we've been getting. Please be in touch. I am at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter. And Bobbyrebell1 on Instagram. And if you're coming to New York, try Broadway Roulette. You can book up to three months in advance and if you follow them on social, they do freebie giveaways. Just saying. Thanks Liz for sharing the story of the birth of your business and your baby and for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Newlywed Hilary Hendershott CFP® found herself with a limited cash flow after launching her own financial advisory firm, and started using her husband’s credit cards to make up the difference. What she considered to be a money secret she was keeping from her new husband, she discovered actually wasn’t, but was the catalyst that brought them together to discuss their finances as a married unit.
In Hilary’s money story you will learn:
-How as newlyweds, Hilary and her husband set up their finances
-The unseen pitfall that caught them both off guard
-Why Hilary considered spending money on her husband’s credit cards a “secret”
-What happened when she revealed her actions
In Hilary’s money lesson you will learn:
-Specifically what Hilary would do now in the same situation
-The exact questions you should be asking if your financial partners- romantic or otherwise
-Ways to motivate yourself to be financially open even in uncomfortable situations
In Hilary’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Why she is against buying service plans from auto dealerships
-The tactics they use to get you to buy the plans and how to flag them
-How to find alternative options to keeping you car properly maintained
-How Hilary got burned at auto dealerships
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of discussing cashflow, not just revenue
-Why taking ownership of your actions is the key to finding solutions
-The biggest danger of not talking about credit card bills with your partner
-How identity theft can be more of a threat if multiple people use the same credit card account
EPISODE LINKS
Learn more about Hilary Hendershott and the Profit Boss® Radio Podcast
https://www.hilaryhendershott.com
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/hilarythecfp
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/profitbossradio
Transcription
Hilary Hendersh:
I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around, or it was a credit card that I was using, or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating or lying or stealing or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so if you spend your significant other's money and you don't actively tell them that you are spending that money is that cheating? I'll let you guys be the judge.
Bobbi Rebell:
Quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to everyone else. Hit that subscribe button while you are there. We do three short episodes a week to fit your schedule. Each episode delivers a money story from a high achiever, a lesson in takeaway so you can apply it to your own life, and an every day money tip to help you save and have more money. If you've got more than about 15 minutes feel free to binge, get a few lessons in a row.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our guest, Hilary Hendershott. In addition to being the real deal, a certified financial planner who has been named one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors she also hosts the Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I highly recommend. I'm going to be a guest on a future episode likely in the fall. She is also relatively newlywed but regrets keeping a secret from her new husband, or did she? Here is Hilary Hendershott.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Hilary Hendershott you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors, quiet an honor.
Hilary Hendersh:
Isn't that cool? Yeah, I'm honored to be ranked.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are a certified financial planner, which we know is serious business, and of course your hit podcast Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I am huge fan of. So, welcome.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much, I'm really happy to be a financial grownup today.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought with you a great story and a very interesting one with a little bit of a plot twist. You were apparently using your husband's credit cards without his knowledge, but there's a lot more of the story, tell us.
Hilary Hendersh:
So for many years I worked for my father's financial planning for about 15 years. I went out on my own in 2014, so I took my clients and I formed a registered investment advisory firm. So here I am, I'm a bootstrapping entrepreneur and my husband was very generous, he said, "Of course, don't pay yourself for a while." And I think any of you who've started a business you understand you just really feel like all that dry kindling needs to go back onto fan the flames of the fire that is your new business. So I was not drawing an income from my business.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you were relatively newlywed, correct?
Hilary Hendersh:
We got married in 2013, yes so we were newlyweds. My husband had his own banking system, I had my own banking system we didn't join accounts, so I had separate checking account from him. So, I didn't think about the fact that we had set this scenario up where there was no money coming into the account that I was spending from. And so, I get to the end like I didn't want to go below $1,000 in this account, but there's no money coming in. I'm like, "What am I going to do now?" Well I happen to ... I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around or it was a credit card that I was using or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating, or lying, or stealing, or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do. And finally I was like, "I have to come clean honey, I've been spending on your credit card to live."
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, but you didn't tell him and you thought he didn't know. I was about to ask you, wait who's paying these bills? Doesn't he look at the bills? So the people have auto pay.
Hilary Hendersh:
Well he was.
Bobbi Rebell:
People have auto pay.
Hilary Hendersh:
No, he paid the bills and I just thought maybe he wasn't paying attention. I don't know that he combs the transactions at a detailed level. It wasn't like the portal was accounting for this is Hilary's card versus this is your card. I don't know what I thought, I was just in denial. I think I just probably wishing and hoping that my surreptitious little activities were not being found out by him. But of course, we're married it's all joint assets anyway, but it was just the fact that I hadn't asked him or gotten approval, it wasn't what we had planned. It wasn't what we said would happen. And I said to him, "How in the world were we designed? How did you think I was going to get money? How was money ever going to come into my accounts?"
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said something about me taking profit distributions from my business.
Hilary Hendersh:
And I said, "But I wasn't taking money out of the business." He and I just had very different expectations of what was happening from a cashflow management perspective, but it was very cool that he gave me a very soft landing, because when I did say, "I've been using your credit card to live."
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."
Bobbi Rebell:
Awe that's so nice. So then how did it evolve? What system did you put in place?
Hilary Hendersh:
Well now I'm on payroll.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, but I mean did you just say, "Well okay, we'll continue this"? Or did you just merge your accounts then? Or did it just continue where you were just still using his credit card but you guys were open about it?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think a little bit of both. I think he like wrote me a check for $20,000 or something so I had money in my checking account. And then we did create a joint account so I changed my bank over to his bank, and now I'm on payroll from the business. So, our personal finances evolved and grew, but we really should have been spending from the same bank account before that. But, yeah so we just kind of dealt with it step-by-step.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that? What is their takeaway?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think it's really common at the beginning of starting a business for someone's spouse to financially support them. And if you're going to do that you just want to be clear where's the pool of funds that you're actually spending from? And you want to be I think in communication, how much can I spend and have us still be on track for our plan? What is your expectation here? I think the problem was that Robert and I just didn't fully talk through the plan. What saved me was my need to be ... I really am fundamentally an honest person. I'm like, "Uh I need to come clean here." But being open and transparent communication with your partner, your spouse is your financial partner. And so, being able to talk about that really helps.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it sounds like he is really supportive of the business.
Hilary Hendersh:
Oh tremendously. I could not have done it without him. Yeah, absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to talk about your money tip because it is something that so many people don't even think twice about, they just assume it's the best thing to do, but maybe not always.
Hilary Hendersh:
Yeah, so when you buy a car from a dealership they give you this schedule of appointments that you're supposed to be on for maintenance and tune-ups, that's a major profit center for those dealerships, those maintenance garages, or fix it places. So, I just went on Yelp and I found a four and a half star local mechanic and we take our cars there. I don't think I've had more than about $100 in maintenance costs over the last seven to eight years. One time I could literally hear the brake discs grinding on each other and I brought the car in thinking I was going to spend ... I had mentally budgeted like $1,000. I was like, "Maybe it'll be like $700 but I don't want to be disappointed, so I'll mentally budget $1,000."
Hilary Hendersh:
The guy said, "I'm going to retool it, it costs $49." It's like I can't spend money at this place if I try to, so that's my tip.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what do you think goes on that people are always feeling like they have to go the dealerships? And full disclosure, when we bought our car we did pre-pay for a maintenance plan. And so, we are locked in because we've paid for it, to our dealer.
Hilary Hendersh:
It's just a problem of information and education. A lot of people in my world, I see come into my office with things inside their investment portfolio that they don't understand, or aren't good for them, or have hidden fees. And under the hood of the car is the same thing. I myself, I know nothing about vehicles. And so, you want to trust dealer just sold you your car. You've been sitting with them all Saturday afternoon and they say, "This is your maintenance schedule."
Hilary Hendersh:
And you don't want to have to think, "Well I'm being taken advantage of or there's a way I can get it for a quarter of the cost." But you know these are huge profit centers for the dealerships and in my experience is I feel that I've been personally taken advantage of because I didn't know what to say or what to ask for.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well what happened at the dealer that you got burned?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think getting really high ticket maintenance bills. Having to do things like, "Well, we removed the rotor," or whatever.
Hilary Hendersh:
And then you go, "Okay can I see the part?" Because somebody tells you that in order to be a critical consumer you need to ask for your old parts.
Hilary Hendersh:
And they go, "Well, it's already at the dump," or whatever. Just signs of lack of credibility. And it's been so long since I've been to a dealership that I definitely am not going to remember the details, but just the fact of my maintenance costs went from several thousand dollars a year to under $100.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice. All right, before I let you go, tell me a little more about Profit Boss Radio and your mission, and a little bit about the show, and where people can find you.
Hilary Hendersh:
Yes, so Profit Boss Radio is your wealth mastermind. So, I take all the best of what I've learned over 18 years as a certified financial planner. I do solo shows on technical topics like, how to debunk economic doomsayers. You know those articles that always say, "The stock market's going to fall. The stock market's a huge bubble." I pull those articles apart and talk through every line item of them so that you understand how to think about and what to do about them when you read them. We've had finance experts such as David Bach and Dan Ariely on the show. I interview everyday entrepreneurs and even some really incredible everyday women, so not media experts but women who have done just remarkable things in their own financial life. I interviewed a single mom, she was left with no money and three kids, she had literally no income and now she owns a major clothing studio and online business living in the house of her dreams having paid cash for all of her kid's college. She was just an incredible interview. So lots of different kinds of topics. The show is designed to empower you financially to take control of your money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well I am a huge fan of the podcast and of you. Where can people find you and follow you?
Hilary Hendersh:
If you have room in your podcast lineup check out Profit Boss Radio wherever you find your podcast online. You can find me HilaryHendershott.com and that is Hilary with one l and Hendershott with two t's.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, this was amazing.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone here is my take. The first year's of any relationship that merges finances romantic or not is always challenging. Financial Grownup Tip #1, Hilary did talk to her new husband about the fact that she would not have income in the early stages of her business, but then she didn't follow up with exactly how the cashflow would work. So it was an incomplete discussion. Don't assume that your partner is making the leap to the next step. While Hilary takes ownership of her actions and feels she should have told him she was spending on his account, and she should have, why didn't he point out the charges to her? Because here's the really alarming thing about this story, given that he did not ask her or anyone about the charges that were appearing on his bill, how did he know that they were not unauthorized charges from strangers, and that his credit card and/or identity had not been compromised?
Bobbi Rebell:
So Financial Grownup Tip #2, if more than one person in your family is using a credit card or even a debit card you need to really be communicating. So taking it beyond the spouse example, maybe to build credit you put your teenage child on a credit card, or some people may give a caregiver a debit card to pay for expenses for a child. Make sure that person is giving you receipts or at the very least communicating what their buying. You may assume that because for example, they shop at Walmart every charge from Walmart is legit and is theirs, but a smart thief might make charges at places you already shop thus avoiding detection. Just think about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for spending some time with us. Feel free to binge a little and check out some other episodes. Learn more about Financial Grownup at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast and do follow us on social media. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell and on Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hilary's relationship with her hubby is still going strong as is her growing financial advisory business. Be sure to check out Profit Boss Radio for more great insights from Hilary, and thank you to my friend for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.
Author Cristina Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week as a lawyer. When she ditched the day job to write full time, Cristina also walked away from the pricey perks. But the author of The Bankers Wife, quickly found herself with the time to create better benefits for herself and her family.
Cristina Alger is a lifelong New Yorker. A graduate of Harvard College and NYU Law School, she worked as a financial analyst and a corporate attorney before becoming a writer. Her third novel, THE BANKER'S WIFE, will be published on July 3 by Penguin Random House. She lives in New York with her husband and two children.
In Cristina’s money story you will learn:
-How and why she came to work in finance after college even though she had been an English major and says she had no financial skills
-How and why she wrote the Darlings while working 120 hours a week as a corporate lawyer, often on the road
-How she got the book published
-How she had to adjust her budget and spending lifestyle when she left her corporate job to write fulltime
-Specific examples of the changes she made to lower her spending, but make up for it with time
In Cristina’s money lesson you will learn:
-How at her corporate job Cristina had to use money to make up for the lack of time she had
-How as a writer, Cristina now has time to make up for the lack of steady paycheck
-The specific current changes Cristina makes in her every day life to improve the quality of her family time and her overall lifestyle
In Cristina’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How Cristina and her husband have disrupted the common advice to hire babysitters and go out in order to really have a date night as parents of young children
-Exactly what they do to protect the time, and to focus on each other, not distractions around their home
-Ideas for how you can create time in your life for special moments - without spending more money than you would like.
-Other benefits from at-home date nights, including avoiding all the stress and to-do list of setting up the going-out date night!
About how Cristina researched her book “The Bankers Wife”
-She learned about Geneva as a child visiting her uncle
-As an ex-pat she was fascinated by the glamorous and mysterious world of swiss banking and offshore banking
-She is fascinated by the Panama Papers and used them for ideas. They were leaked while she was writing the book in the summer of 2016,
-Another case that inspired her was that of whistelblower Bradley Birkenfeld, who exposed how UBS helped ultra-wealthy Americans commit billions in tax fraud.
-Birkenfeld went to prison for 30 months, but when he got out he got $104 million from the IRS as a whistleblowers fee!
In my take you will learn:
-How to find the time to do what you love, even if you feel like you are too busy
-How to determine if in fact you should not try to find the time- because ultimately it’s not that important to you, or not realistic during this phase of your life.
-Ways to come to terms with your actual priorities not being what you think they SHOULD be.
-The difference between side hustles for enjoyment, and side hustles for pay.
-Ways to approach and re-think the pressure from friends and family to have a formal ‘date night’ when you really do have other financial needs- or the planning of the date night is creating stress.
EPISODE LINKS:
Learn more about Cristina Alger and her other books at her website:
CristinaAlger.com where you can also buy her book.
Follow Cristina!
Facebook: @AuthorCristinaAlger
Instagram: cristina.alger
Twitter: CristinaAlger
Here are some great articles about the Panama Papers:
International Consortium of Investigative Journalists
https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/
NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/06/us/panama-papers.html
The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/panama-papers
Wired: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/
Here is more about Bradley Birkenfeld.
https://lucifersbanker.com!
You can read more about him in his book: https://lucifersbanker.com/books/lucifers-banker/overview/
Transcription
Cristina Alger:
There was a salad place in basement of my loft apartment, we used to go everyday for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it, and a lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with my, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up, but you know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together, I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, a lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, the glam life of an entrepreneur, you can work from the beach, but you also need to watch out for those 30 dollar a day salads because that expense account has sailed away. Welcome everyone, so glad you are here, we have a great guest today in novelist Cristina Alger, whose latest book the financial thriller, The Bankers Wife, kept me up all weekend, I could not put it down until the very last page and it was a good ending. The book is fiction but also very realistic, taking us into the secretive world of Swiss banking and chock full of villains, if you can figure out who exactly are the villains. You can really tell that in Cristina's background in banking and law as well as growing up in a family that worked in finance, gave her insights into this actually really crazy world that we haven't seen before in a novel, at least not that I'm aware of.
Bobbi Rebell:
This book takes you on quite the adventure. Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings, as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week, when she ditched the day job though to write full time Cristina also walked away from those pricey perks and she had to learn to be quite the financial grown up, you're going to love this story. Here is Cristina Alger. Hey Cristina Alger, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.
Cristina Alger:
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for taking over my weekend, I spent the weekend reading your new book, I got a sneak peak at it, The Bankers Wife. We're going to talk more about it after your money story, but just high level, give us a little sneak peak?
Cristina Alger:
Well the bankers wife is a thriller and it's set sort of in Europe and New York and it's about a woman who is an ex pat, an American ex pat living in Geneva, and her husband is a private banker and he goes missing on a private plane, and she goes in search of him. It's really kind of a fun fast paced thriller that kind of takes you through the world of off shore banking.
Bobbi Rebell:
So we love that, a money thriller, and to get to the point where you are giving us this wonderful novel, and by the way it's your third novel, you had to leave your corporate job and become your own boss and that involved some big money decisions of your own. Nothing quite as dramatic as what goes on in The Bankers Wife, trust me, this book goes there, but lets hear about your life and your money story?
Cristina Alger:
Yeah, when I graduated in college, I was an English major, I had no actual marketable skills and I went to work at Goldman Sachs.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let me just correct that, you must have had some skills to get a job at Goldman Sachs, but go on.
Cristina Alger:
Well I had no financial skills and I grew up in a family where both my mom and my father worked in finance, I had never taken economics, I had never taken accounting, my dad passed away when I was a senior in college.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sorry.
Cristina Alger:
And I sort of realized that I had to start paying my own bills and so I decided to take the highest paying job I could get, which was a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs and they were one of the few banks that were hiring people out of undergrad who did not have a finance background, so I took that job and I sort of stuck with that through my 20's. I went to law school and when I came out of ... I became a corporate lawyer because I had spent these two years at Goldman Sachs learning how to be a financial analyst. So I spent about 10 years doing finance in sort of various roles and I wrote The Darlings really as a passion project, I wrote it while I was working as a lawyer and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So let me just ... so it was a side hustle, was it intended to make money or just ... it was just a project?
Cristina Alger:
No, it was just a project, I never thought it would get published ... actually even intended for it to see the light of day. I sent it to a writer friend of mine who asked, so are you still writing, are you still working on sort of creative projects, and so I sent this to her and she sent it to her agent, and her agent called me and said I really like this, do you want to publish it. I thought oh wow, I don't know if I have the time to do that, so I sort of hemmed and hawed about it ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And the economics, I mean I don't know what the advance was but you're in a job that you've said you're in for the money and now I mean it's a first time novel, it might pay well but probably not the same?
Cristina Alger:
No, and it's funny, being a lawyer and being a novelist are complete opposites. I mean being a lawyer is such a consistent steady job, you know you're really paid salary, it's a salary based job, the bonuses are not huge, and it's just a very consistent job. You sort of stay there, you keep your head down, you work hard and you get paid very well and you have great benefits and it's a very conservative kind of risk averse job. Obviously being a writer is the exact opposite, you get paid in kind of these lump sums, you never know when you're going to get paid next, there are no benefits, so ... it's a huge transition.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you make that transition?
Cristina Alger:
So we took the book to auction, it actually did really well at auction and we sold it for a fairly large advance, but it was a big leap for me. It was really stressful, it was hard in the beginning to figure out how to be my own boss and how to kind of manage my budget given that I wasn't getting a consistent salary.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do, what was it like?
Cristina Alger:
I set up a budget that would carry me through the next year and I really stuck to it. In fact, every month I was sort of coming under my budget because I was so scared that I would run out of money.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something maybe that you would have done in your lawyer life financially and you weren't doing anymore as a novelist, year one?
Cristina Alger:
Okay, yeah. Well the first thing and the most obvious thing that I actually ... and this is the change that I will never go back, I stopped doing take out. I just stopped, I now cook lunch and dinner, I bring my lunch to work if I'm going somewhere. I mean New York is sort of dangerous because there's so many quick lunch options and dinner options around but it's expensive, it adds up. So there was this salad place in the basement of my loft apartment, we used to go every day for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it. A lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore, so I had to get much more organized about doing meal planning and grocery shopping and ... but I also had more time, so I actually really enjoy cooking and that's something that my husband and I do a lot together and my kids and I now do it together. So it's been actually a really positive change, but we save a lot of money as a family by not really eating out very much.
Cristina Alger:
We almost never do take out, so that's one thing. Then another is that I don't take cabs anywhere, I was always in a rush when I was at my law firm and I was always traveling around the city. I literally can't remember the last time I took a cab, I walk everywhere, I take the subway, my kids love the bus, that's a huge cost savings. I also realized that I don't have to dry clean my clothes the way I did when I was a lawyer, when I was a lawyer I was wearing a suit every day and I would honestly throw things in the dry cleaning bin because I was just too lazy to think about it and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And busy, you were working 120 hours a week.
Cristina Alger:
I know. Then you know, I was a lot more conscious about going out with friends at night and the money I was spending on entertainment and that kind of thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson then for our listeners, what's their take away from this?
Cristina Alger:
One of the thing that I realize is when you work these very intense corporate jobs, you're spending money to create time, and that goes away when you cease to have a job that takes over your whole life. So a lot of the things that I was spending money on I realized didn't actually bring me any joy, they were just ... I was spending money to save time. So I was paying for a housekeeper, I was paying for transportation as I said, I was paying for take out, and all these things really what I was buying was time because I was so busy that I couldn't ... I didn't have the time to go grocery shopping and sit out on a Sunday and plan out what I was going to eat for the whole week and when you get back some of that time and you reclaim that time, you can actually save a lot of money because you're not making decisions kind of on the fly based on what's the most convenient thing to do right then.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's kind of along the same theme and it's really about date night with your husband.
Cristina Alger:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because now you're married, when The Darlings came along you were single, and when The Bankers Wife comes along now you are married.
Cristina Alger:
I am, I am, we have started doing date night at home and we cook a really nice elaborate dinner and we light candles, we set the table, and my husband brings me flowers, a date at home and it's really nice. Sometimes we'll watch a show or a movie on the couch and we'll drink wine and sort of do whatever we would do at a restaurant, but at home. We save money because it's just infinitely cheaper to eat at home but we also save on babysitting and sort of the mental gymnastics of getting a babysitter, so ... we just find it so much easier to be like okay, Thursday night we're doing it. It makes a big difference when you set the table and you use real silver wear and you're not sort of shoving food in your mouth because you have to put your kids down in the next 30 minutes.
Cristina Alger:
So we kind of make a production of it and it's nice, it's really romantic and my husband actually has now started to cook with me, which is fun. It's a fun different kind of date night so I highly recommend it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So lets talk about The Bankers Wife because I told you this beforehand, I chose to read this rather than watch The Handmaids Tale, which is basically huge, if anyone's every watched The Handmaids Tale, I could not put this book down. I read it in a day and a half, there's a lot of things that happen that at least I didn't see coming at all but make total sense in hindsight, you're like of course, but they don't make sense. Tell us about how you even came up with this idea, did you know about this world, did you know about things like this without getting to into the details, were you witness to this?
Cristina Alger:
I did, you know, I did because ... well I sort of have in two ways. One is the book is set in Geneva and my uncle actually lives in Geneva and so as a child we would spent a lot of time visiting him there and I always thought the ex pat world there was just so glamorous and it's sort of mysterious and ... I just thought it would always be a fabulous sort of setting for a novel. I became really fascinated with the Panama Papers Case, which is the data leak that came out of a Panamanian law firm that did a lot of business with these off shore banks. In the summer of 2016 when I was writing this book the Panama papers had just leaked out and they were all over the news and I'm sort of a nerdy financial news junky, and I just couldn't get enough of this case.
Cristina Alger:
I thought it was so fascinating that someone from inside this law firm had leaked all this really confidential information and it occurred to me that there was this whole world of banking that exists completely outside any sort of regulatory body and it's ... for the ultra rich and it's all operated in kind of numbered bank accounts, and no one knows who owns the numbered bank accounts and it's super shady. It amazed me that there's trillions of dollars in this sort of off shore banking system that exists and all the different people that can be involved, there are drug cartels that store their money, there's Presidents, there are all kinds of people. There was another case I did a lot of research on and it's this man named Bradley Burkenfeld who is an American private banker at UBS, United Bank of Switzerland, and he was a whistleblower.
Cristina Alger:
He ended up ... this is such a crazy story. He knew what he was doing, you know, that he was helping a lot of people evade taxes by having Americans bank at UBS and he knew what he was doing was illegal and he sort of saw the writing on the wall and he ended up becoming a whistleblower for the IRS, and he gave over a lot of confidential information from inside the bank to the DOJ and the IRS. They ended up prosecuting him anyway, so he went to jail.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, really?
Cristina Alger:
Yes, for aiding and embedding, tax evasion, and then he walks out of prison and the IRS awards him I think 114 million dollars because ...
Bobbi Rebell:
The finders fee.
Cristina Alger:
Whistleblower, yes. So it's a totally insane story.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you have another best seller on your hands, so congratulations.
Cristina Alger:
Thank you so much, that's so kind.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find out more about you?
Cristina Alger:
Well you can always go to my website, so it's Cristinaalger.com, it's Cristinaalger.com, and also on Penguin Random House they have pages on all the different authors and the books available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, so ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And to follow you on all your social channels.
Cristina Alger:
Yes, definitely, I'm all over the place.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Cristina.
Cristina Alger:
No, thank you, it was such a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm still kind of trying to process how Cristina found the time to write while working 120 hours a week, but therein lies the takeaway, financial grown up tip number 1, if you want to do something you love you will find the time because you won't be able to stop yourself. Notice I didn't say it will necessarily pay, separate topics, whether that project will pay, but Cristina wrote her first book as a way to relax and cope with the stress of her job. As it happens, the book was also really good and she was able to turn it into a profitable project, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she was finding the time while working 120 hours a week. So the next time you feel you don't have time for a project, just think about Cristina and finding those pockets of time in that crazy week. If it feels like it's a chore and you're struggling, maybe it's okay to decide not to do it and do other things or maybe you don't time for anything else, that's okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
So rather than beat yourself up and feel bad about it, just say in this phase of my life I'm not going to do it because I don't have the time and it's not giving me enough joy that I'm going to find a way to make the time, it's okay. Financial grown up tip number 2, we get so many messages these days that we need to build in that date night with our significant other and commit money so that it sticks. When my husband and I had our son, we were told pre-schedule a baby sitter every Saturday night so we were forced to have a date night because things come up otherwise, this way we put money on it, we were going. I have to tell you, paying someone money to sit in our house watching TV while our son slept so we could go to a restaurant, maybe spend money on a taxi to get there, to spend more money for the meal then.
Bobbi Rebell:
It doesn't always work for everyone and sometimes the idea that you're spending all this money puts a lot of pressure on you. Also maybe the money just isn't there for that, maybe your priority is saving for something else, maybe it's paying down debt, maybe that's where your priority is right now and you can make ... and it was great that Cristina pointed this out, you can make a date night at home. Yes, it is absolutely easier to blow off if you haven't made this commitment, but Cristina's example really was telling. The little things are important, her husbands bringing her flowers, they really set the table, that makes a difference. I'm going to try it, maybe you guys can too.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you are enjoying the promos and want one for yourself or your business, follow me on social media and share them, I'm going to be choosing a winner soon and it could be you to get a promo made for you or your business. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram and BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook my author page is @BobbiRebell. Also, love it when you guys DM me and share your thoughts on the show and also suggest guests that you would like to see on Financial Grown Up. Everyone, go out and get Cristina Alger's new book, The Bankers Wife, it is the perfect summer read and thank you Cristina for sharing all your money saving tips and advice and experiences and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
TV and theater producer Jenna Segal had a dramatic financial shock as a child. Now as a financial grownup, Jenna takes her cue from that experience to make sure the creative ambition of her productions is in line with financial realities.
In Jenna’s money story you will learn:
-How Jenna had to adjust her life growing up when her parents financial situation experienced a big change
-The impact big changes in the U.S. economy and the fashion industry had on her family
-How Jenna managed multiple income streams and side hustles as a teen
-Why the happy birthday song at Bennigans shares a special place in Jenna’s heart
-The specific strategies Jenna used to balance her schoolwork with her many jobs and internships
-How Jenna leveraged her background watching the numbers to move into her career as a broadway, tv and film producer
-The factors Jenna takes into consideration when putting together a production to balance creativity with financial responsibility
-Why we are talking about my cousin Robin and coding
In Jenna’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to take life experiences and translate them into skills for your career
-How to balance desire for creativity in any project, with the financial realities
-How to actually use creativity on projects as a solution to budget challenges
In Jenna’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Jenna always has $2,000 available for emergencies
-The strategy she used to manage living paycheck to paycheck in one of her first jobs
In my take you will learn:
-The difference between an emergency fund and a get out of town fund
-What to do if you do not have the resources the fund an emergency fund in the near term
Episode Links
Look for new information coming soon about Jenna’s projects including the plan she is producing fall 2018 at her website SegalNYC.com
Learn about Jenna’s new content projects aimed at women- and get on the newsletter at gatherertv.com
Read more about Jenna Segal!
Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/articles/gigi-back-on-broadway-thanks-to-jenna-segal-a-rookie-producer-1426785748
Playbill: http://www.playbill.com/person/jenna-segal-vault-0000125916
Follow Jenna!!
Twitter @JennaKatzSegal
Instagram @JennaSegal
Facebook: JKSegal
Transcription
Jenna Segal:
She'd throw me the codes for the budgets and I would be able to look at each bill and really get to understand what it was costing for the networks to do what they were doing. That's what gave me the ability to do the job that I wound up getting at MTV, because I understood the cost of production and how to move money around, how to budget, figure out how to make a projection work on the amount of money that we had to work with.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money.
Bobbi Rebell:
But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was film, TV and theater producer, Jenna Segal talking show business number crunching. Welcome everyone to the show, if you have not already, please hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you are new to the show, great to have you. As our returning listeners know, we keep the episodes short because we know you're busy. About 15 minutes, just give you a story, little context, something to think about, a take away, and an everyday money tip.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, if you have more time, listen to a few episodes. All right, let's get back to today's money story. Jenna Segal's long list of productions include, Gigi on Broadway starring Vanessa Hudgens, the recent revival of Les Liaisons Dangereuses, hope I said that correctly, as well as the off Broadway show, What We're Up Against.
Bobbi Rebell:
She has also had stints at Viacom including MTV and Nickelodeon, as well as in news. Places like CNN and CNBC, whereas you will here, she worked for my cousin Robin. Hey Robin.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also, no matter how fabulous this show is, you're going to learn from Jenna, there is still math and a lot of people that have to get paid. If you can't crunch the numbers, the show does not go on. Jenna Segal got her ambition early on and it amped up, when as a teen her family had some big financial drama.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now her career, still has drama just also comedy, mystery, love stories and all that showbiz stuff. Here is Jenna Segal.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jenna Segal, you're our financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Jenna Segal:
Hey Bobbi, how are you? It's so exciting to be on.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you because you have so many interesting projects. You are the head of Segal NYC which is Broadway Production company, you're also a TV producer and you've got a number of projects going on right now. I have convinced you to give us a little sneak peak on one project, tell us a little about that very famous person you're working on a project about.
Jenna Segal:
Yes, I'm so excited. I am working with Daryl Roth on a brand new play called Gloria. Which is about the one and only Gloria Steinem. It is going to be at the Daryl Roth theater downtown in New York City in the fall.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very cool. I want to hear more about some other projects you're working on but first let's do your money story. It is something that unfortunately many people can relate to and that is when a parent loses a job. You were just 16, tell us what happened.
Jenna Segal:
When I was 16, I grew up in New Jersey and just kind of a regular existence. My dad had a great job working in the fashion industry and the whole industry, much like today, went through a major transition. The entire industry of the middle man started falling apart because Target and Walmart were doing networking, going directly to factories all around the world to find people to manufacture their goods.
Jenna Segal:
Financially for our family it was just a major, major change.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did that mean for you? What was the changes for you?
Jenna Segal:
Well it just meant that money wasn't coming easily anymore. And at a certain point, it also meant that my college education wasn't as secure as I had thought. I wasn't getting a car when I turned 17, I was sharing a car with my dad where I would drop him off so he could go into New York City. And I would pick him up at the end of the day.
Jenna Segal:
But it especially meant that I went out and I had always loved working but started, instead of doing you know one job that was babysitting after school, I went out and got three jobs. So I worked on the weekends at the local bagel store where I'd get there at five o'clock in the morning and Saturdays and Sundays I would talk to the first people in at five and make their bagels and go through the soccer lines and everything else.
Jenna Segal:
Making sure everyone got what they needed and then I would hostess at night at Finnegan's which was a-
Bobbi Rebell:
I loved Finnegan's.
Jenna Segal:
Of course. I still know the Happy Birthday song.
Bobbi Rebell:
I also grew up in New Jersey of course though.
Jenna Segal:
Yes totally. And I was able to do obvioulsy similar things there. And I also worked at Little Ceaser's when it first opened until I just couldn't take it anymore because I smelled so much like pizza. And I was a nanny after school for a single mother, not my Freshman year of college but starting my Sophomore year of college, I continued really doing that as well.
Jenna Segal:
Trying to take all of my classes in two days and then I started working at CNN five days a week. At first for an unpaid internship and then hostessing at night. But it really was a wonderful experience because it changed how I viewed being able to support myself.
Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're a Broadway producer. Having this background with the needing to earn money in that kind of situation, do you look at budget items differently, would you spend differently?
Jenna Segal:
Oh totally. When I look at Broadway, every single aspect of what you're doing has to relate to the return. And then it has to relate to the artistic integrity of the piece that you're doing. I would say even at MTV, where I started in the 90s in Los Angeles, it was always about taking whatever the budget was, being able to respect the artistic integrity of the director or the writer. And make sure to get them what they wanted visually but how to do that within the parameters of what financially needed to be achieved.
Jenna Segal:
And that's always a really huge challenge I think for many people who get out of film school and budgeting is generally not significantly taught there. And I have always felt that for creative people, having that ability to understand the parameters around a budget, especially for large corporations who have real risk assessment needs.
Jenna Segal:
And cannot just go out and shoot without permits and know that they're not going to majorly get in trouble or use music that hasn't been cleared. And just take the risk that they're not going to pay for it or have somebody come in and not have insurance for those people to make sure that if they get hurt, they don't take the risk and have that actor or that camera person or the audio person not have backup. So that if they get hurt, you're able to financially take care of them and not wind up getting sued and having it put you into major financial jeopardy as an independent producer.
Jenna Segal:
All of those things are what I'm thinking about all the time.
Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot of economics behind the scenes, I mean pun intended.
Jenna Segal:
Yes, 100 percent. I started in political talk shows in Washington D.C. with actually, I completely forgot about this, your cousin Robin [inaudible 00:08:06].
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, hey Robin.
Jenna Segal:
The absolute best producers I have ever worked with, incredibly smart. But Robin loved the creative and she hated the financial piece. And the best thing that Robin ever did for me and my production career and I credit her for this all the time. Is that Robin threw the bills at me. And she said, "You deal with this. You code it."
Jenna Segal:
And coding is, in the networks or really in any company that you work for, it's a way of accounting for each individual expenditure you have so that when they put it through the massively gigantic books in the big picture, they're able to understand what they're spending on everything.
Jenna Segal:
And so she'd throw me the codes for the budgets and I would be able to look at each bill and really get to understand what it was costing for the networks to do what they were doing. That's what gave me to the ability to do the job that I wound up getting at MTV in its heyday.
Jenna Segal:
Because I understood the costs of production and how to move money around, how to budget, how to figure out how to make a production work on the amount of money that we had to work with.
Jenna Segal:
(Music)
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from this?
Jenna Segal:
I think the most important lesson is to make sure to key into where you're real financial acumen is. And that could come from any kind of experience in your life. See why that moment resonated for you and how you can move that moment forward for what you're doing at work or what you're doing in your home.
Jenna Segal:
Look at your finances and figure out how you can make happen what you want to make happen, even if you have a minimal amount of money to do it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And even if you're in a creative field, I mean one thing that I notice is that you know, even the creative people need to understand the economics behind that creation.
Jenna Segal:
Oh 100 percent. And what I like to say is that I, what my real skill set wound being is that I am an excellent translator. Through my experiences, I was able to understand financial people and understand what they were getting at and why they were getting at why you could or couldn't spend money on something.
Jenna Segal:
And I was able to talk to creative people and explain to them why we did or didn't have the money to do what they wanted to do but how we could creatively come up with a solution for how to get what they wanted in a different way within the money that we had. And I think that lacking often creates the best creativity for how to find creative ways out of a situation.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right so Jenna, what is your money tip?
Jenna Segal:
Pick a number and create an emergency fund. When I was leaving Washington or decided I wanted to leave for Washington to move out to LA to begin working outside of political talk shows, I worked in a job where I only got paid once a month. And it really taught me how to budget wisely over the course of the month because of course I was living paycheck to paycheck.
Jenna Segal:
Knowing that I was going to get money at the end of the month, it made me think about how I could save to get to the 2000 dollars that I thought that I needed to get out to LA. And ever since then, I always make sure to have 2000 dollars in the bank at all times as my getaway car so to speak.
Jenna Segal:
Because I always feel that as long as I have that 2000 dollars in the bank, I can just change and-
Bobbi Rebell:
Get somewhere, right. So it's not a traditional emergency fund where if you lost your income source, you would have six months to live on. It's a get out-of-town fund, basically.
Jenna Segal:
It's a get out, yes exactly. Which is why I call it an emergency fund. It's not-
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, but it's not, I don't want our regular listeners to be confused with these same kind of emergency fund that's like for if you're in dire straights, this is your get out of town.
Jenna Segal:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Like yeah. Literally like quick cash fund.
Jenna Segal:
Literally I need to change my life tomorrow, I have this money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well you have a great life right now because you have so many amazing projects going on. Tell us what's going on with Segal NYC and you have another big thing that's happening the fall of 2018, I think.
Jenna Segal:
Yes. With Segal NYC, we're going to be producing the fall, Gloria as I mentioned. And then other projects that are brewing in the background and then I have also started with a partner, Gatherer Entertainment which is going to be a digital network for women. And we have a really fun newsletter at Gatherer TV dot com. If you're interested.
Jenna Segal:
But it's all really exciting and there is not-
Bobbi Rebell:
What kinds of projects are you going to have?
Jenna Segal:
On Gatherer, it's going to be everything from unscripted shows to scripted but all in the original stuff that we're going to be doing is all going to be in shorter form. And we're working with really talented writers, some with names you know and some who don't. Focusing on women, the world that women live in right now.
Jenna Segal:
And really things that are going to be instrumental to them in their lives that aren't necessarily being talked about.
Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds mysterious. All right I can't wait.
Jenna Segal:
I think it's unveiling the mysteries.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was a good tease, Jenna, good job. All right, where can people learn more about you and about Segal NYC and Gatherer and so on?
Jenna Segal:
Sure so Segal NYC, it is Segal NYC dot com, Gatherer is Gatherer TV dot com. And then I am on Twitter at JennaKatzSegal and Facebook and Instagram. Although I don't use Instagram as much. I know I really have to get on it but I just haven't gotten there yet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you'll get there and you have great things happening and coming so thank you Jenna Segal.
Jenna Segal:
Thank you so much. It was so good talking to you.
Bobbi Rebell:
(Music)
Bobbi Rebell:
Such a fun interview, can't wait to go see Jenna and Daryl Roth's Gloria production in the fall.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, Jenna worked as a teen in multiple jobs because she had to. But it's also often a great learning experience for teens to work just because they get exposed to the universal basics of being an employee. Show up on time, be reliable, follow directions, all that stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
It can also motivate teens not just to work hard, but also smart. And to have the best career that they can. I know having to memorize the price of every baked good at the Wycoff Bakery in New Jersey as a teen definitely motivated me. And I know my future in food service.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, emergency fund. So Jenna talked about having 2000 dollars as an emergency fund. We then, renamed it the get out-of-town fund. She basically was talking about money to buy a plane ticket and have a little spending money if you got to go. But as we also mentioned, everyone actually also needs what we traditionally call an emergency fund in case your income stops for some reason.
Bobbi Rebell:
So in a perfect world, it would be about six months, more or less depending on if you are a single person, then you might need a little more. If you have double income, you might need less because the odds of losing both incomes at once are lower.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now if that is not a reality right now and it's not for a lot of people, let's be honest about it, if you don't have it, here is a plan B. See if you can at least get a line of credit that could be available to you. The catch is, you need to get the line of the credit ahead of time, as in now when you don't need it. If you're not using it and you don't take money out, you're not paying any interest so it's okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
But then you have it so you can tap into that money if you do have an emergency at much lower rates than say a credit card. And that's really important because right now we are in a rising rate environment.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us for another great Financial Grownup Podcast episode. To stay up to date on episodes and also catch our fun promo videos, follow me on social media. At bobbierebell on Twitter, at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, my page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. And I'm also working on that YouTube page so check it out and please subscribe, I would love your support.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jenna's start continues to rise in large part because she keeps a nice balance between the show and the business, so thank you Jenna for sharing with us and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
(Music)
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.
In Andy’s money story you will learn:
-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan
-The emotional backdrop to that mistake
-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision
-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently
In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:
-The options Andy wish he had considered
-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship
In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research
-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan
-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings
In my take you will learn:
-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!
-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well
-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used
-Resources to get more information about 529 plans
Episode Links
Andy’s website:
Marriagekidsandmoney.com
Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook
Listen to Andy’s podcast!
Follow Andy!!
Twitter @andyhillmkm
Instagram: @AndyHill 827
Facebook @andyhillMKM
Learn more about 529’s:
Link to the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html
Link to the FINRA website Saving for College
http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college
College Savings Plans Network
http://www.collegesavings.org/
SAVING FOR COLLEGE
https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan
Transcription
Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.
Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.
Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!
Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."
Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.
Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!
Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?
Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]
Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.
Andy Hill:
Nope.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?
Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?
Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?
Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?
Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."
Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."
Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?
Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?
Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."
Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."
Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.
Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.
Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.
Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.
Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.
Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.
Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.
Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.
Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.
Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.
Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.
Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing.
Danielle's money story:
Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.
Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.
Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?
Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?
Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?
Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?
Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.
Danielle’s money lesson:
Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.
Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?
Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.
Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.
Danielle's everyday money tip:
Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.
Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.
Danielle Town:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.
Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.
Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.
Financial GrownUp Tip number one:
Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.
Financial GrownUp Tip number two:
If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.
Episode Links
Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.
Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!!
Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com
Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town: Invested and on iTunes here
Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested!
Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:
Follow Danielle!
Twitter: @danielle_town
Instagram: @danielletown
Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested
When journalist Vera Gibbons launched nonpoliticalnews.com she had lots of former colleagues and friends telling her she needed to spend money on all kinds of costs, but after making a few missteps, the entrepreneur learned to prioritize and keep her costs in check while she built a strong foundation.
In Vera’s money story you will learn:
-What inspired Vera to start her website and newsletter nonpoliticalnews.com
-How she was approached about hiring many people to help her, but at a cost, despite the fact that her business was not yet earning money
-Vera’s choices about where to spend her resources in the early days of her venture
-Where she regretted spending money, and where she felt her money was best allocated.
-Vera’s revenue model
In Vera’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to evaluate what expenses to take on in the startup phase of a business
-How to prioritize your business needs versus wants
-The legal issues you need to pay attention to when starting a business
In Vera’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why we all need to be paying close attention to interest rates
-How to identify the interest rates in your life that could be going up
-How to negotiate to get your rates lower
In my take you will learn:
-How to put your friends “advice’ in context when starting any new venture
-How the upward movement in interest rates can be both a positive and a negative.
Episode Links
Vera’s website: nonpoliticalnews.com
Twitter @nopodaily
Facebook Non political News
Instagram @nonpoliticalnews
Resources to learn more about interest rates and why they are going up:
The Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/
Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/interestrate.asp
Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-fed-raises-interest-rates-2017-12
Kiplinger https://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T019-C000-S010-interest-rate-forecast.html
Marketwatch: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/rising-interest-rates-give-retirees-good-news-and-bad-news-2018-06-20
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Vera Gibbons:
They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast, your website needs to be revised, I'll do it for $15,000." I'm a startup, and I have no income, and I have no revenue, how am I going to pay for any of this?
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot about living within our means, and ideally below our means, when we talk about personal finance. But the truth is, that also applies in business, especially with startup businesses that are as they say pre-revenue. Before we get to our guest, I just want to welcome our new listeners, and of course welcome back our regulars, we keep the show on the shorter side around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy day. But of course, feel free to binge on a few episodes if you've got half an hour, two episodes, and so on. The idea is that we share money stories that are going to give us something to think about that may relay to our personal lives, maybe our careers and business lives, which these days are blending together more and more. We also do everyday money tips, because we want you to have more money.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I guess Vera Gibbons spent years as a Consumer Journalist before starting her website, Non Political News, aka NoPo. When she did, everybody wanted to help her out and have their hand out. Here is Vera Gibbons. Hey, Vera Gibbons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Vera Gibbons:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be your guest.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new website, Non Political News, something we all need a little bit of.
Vera Gibbons:
It is a labor of love. I started it a couple of years ago, and it's really been growing like gangbusters. All the news is non political, and then we have some fun stuff and some stuff that is just frivolous and interesting. It's resonating, people really seem to like it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear more about it, but first I want to get to your money story, because it has to do with being an entrepreneur and starting a business, and the fact that sometimes we take on costs that we should not. Tell us more.
Vera Gibbons:
That is a big problem. All my life, as you know, I've been bouncing around on different TV shows, doing personal financing consumer segments. Then I started NonPoliticalNews.com, so the big money story is it's expensive to be your own boss. This is probably why people don't do it. There are legal costs, there are marketing costs, and they add up, and they add up very, very quickly, as I quickly found.
Bobbi Rebell:
People tell you that you need to do this, you need to do that.
Vera Gibbons:
It never ends. When I first started NonPoliticalNews.com I had people approach me from NBC, where I used to work, and they we're saying "Oh, do you want me to do some videos for you?" They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast. Your website needs to be revised. I'll do it for $15,000." I mean-
Bobbi Rebell:
Those are big numbers.
Vera Gibbons:
Big.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because your revenue was what at this point?
Vera Gibbons:
Zip.
Bobbi Rebell:
Zero. Zero revenue and these people are hitting you up.
Vera Gibbons:
They wanted to do all sorts of stuff and they weren't taking me and my personal situation under consideration at all. I'm like "Hey, I'm a startup, I have no income. I have no revenue. How am I going to pay for any of this?" People were telling me "You should bring on people to work for you. You should hire someone to do the marketing." I hired one person to help me with email problems, with the delivery of our email. We use MailChimp, as everybody does, because I'm a newsletter business pretty much. The email goes out every single morning at 7:00 into your inbox. Occasionally, some people weren't getting the email, or it was showing up late, or it was bouncing back. So I had to bring in somebody to help me with that. But at the time I was thinking "I just got to make sure this email gets out to my subscribers every single morning, and it's consistent in the delivery." So that was a priority.
Vera Gibbons:
Now we had another priority that literally landed on my desk, which was we had a trademark problem, I had trademarked NonPoliticalNews.com, and somebody was infringing on our trademark. That was a big legal cost that I had to undertake for obvious reasons, we couldn't have this happen. We had to do a cease and desist, and [inaudible 00:04:42] people out, and then we ended up buying their domain. It was a big ordeal. It also held up the marketing side of things too, because I was like "Well, I can't really continue with using the name Non Political News or NoPo News as call it if somebody else has that name." People are confused with where they're going, and they're being miscorrected. That was a big unfortunate legal battle that we had to undertake, and that was an expensive one.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did this all evolve to where you are now in terms of your ongoing expenses, your payroll basically?
Vera Gibbons:
I did make a compromise with videos. They had wanted me to do like 20 videos for $20,000. I worked out a deal with them where I did a couple just to test the waters for a couple thousand dollars. In the end, that was a financial mistake actually, because the videos did not do all that well, they weren't generating the kind of traffic or interest we wanted. I had actually found a couple of typos in one of the videos before it went out. I'm like "What am I paying for all this for?" That was a mistake. Thankfully it wasn't that big of financial a mistake, it was just a couple thousand dollars, the cost of doing business.
Vera Gibbons:
I also had a lot of people who approached me and wanted to help me with the social media. That's still a work in progress, because I'm not very good at social media, and I don't really like it. But at some point, I'm probably going to have to hire somebody to do that, because I know now that in order to get your product out there, and to get the word out there about your product, you need to have someone pretty aggressively promoting it on Instagram, and Twitter, and Facebook. I've been not very good about that quite honestly. The bulk of the money has gone toward my website guy, he redid the website, it looks pretty good now, it's a little flashier, it's a little more user friendly. My marketing, he's just a part-time marketing guy, he's on a retainer. He does help me with Facebook promotions, and a little bit of social media. We occasionally do free giveaways via NonPoliticalNews.com, where we partner up with various entities, and we provide something for our subscribers. He's been helping me with some of those promotions.
Vera Gibbons:
Those can be costly too depending on how you market them on Facebook. Facebook has changed all the algorithms now, so it's a little trickier than it used to be perhaps, but that has been primarily where I've been spending the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's the revenue model?
Vera Gibbons:
The revenue model is, at some point we're going to be doing sponsored segments. We do have, the way it's organized now is we have different categories. We have consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty and fitness and diet. Every day into the night, and early morning, I curate the news within those categories. At some point soon, we're going to partner up with influential people within each of the respective categories, and we're going to tap into their followers and see if it ... to catch on with Non Political News.
Bobbi Rebell:
Vera, what is your money lesson from that story? Taking on all of those expenses, some you didn't take on, some you did and regret.
Vera Gibbons:
I guess the lesson is, do what is absolutely necessary at the time, and hold off on the other things until that becomes a complete necessity. For me, the necessity is we're dealing with email delivery problems, obviously you want to make sure-
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because if people aren't getting their daily emails, you have no business.
Vera Gibbons:
Exactly. That was a hot fire I had to put up immediately. Then the other issue was this legal issue, we had someone infringing on our trademark, and that was another hot issue that had to be taken care of immediately. The other stuff could wait, and some of it is still waiting. It's just been a work in a progress.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about an everyday money tip, because you're in the news business, you know what's going on, and that gave you an idea for something people need to be paying a lot of attention to, maybe more than they think.
Vera Gibbons:
Check your interest rates, guys. A lot of people do not even know what their interest rate actually is. We are in a rising interest rate environment, you really need to know where you stand on that front, because your costs are going to get more expensive, you probably, maybe, perhaps have noticed things are going up on your credit card.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. What are the different interest rates that people should be checking that could change, that aren't usually fixed?
Vera Gibbons:
That would be your variable rate loans, your credit cards are variable rate loans. If you had an adjustable rate mortgage, that's a variable rate loan. These are the types of things that people really need to check, especially that credit card rate, because when Fed raises their rates, your credit card rate goes up in sync, pretty much immediately. 25 Basis Point hike may not sound like a lot, but we've had a couple, and we're potentially going to get three or four hikes for the total of 2018. That credit card debt you carry months to months, to months over, you revolve your debt, is going to be more expensive.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's say you have a credit card, and you know it's not being paid off any time soon, what can you do?
Vera Gibbons:
If you have good credit, in the 700 range, you could always call up your credit card company and see if they'll actually lower your rate. That strategy continues to work today. If you have been paying your bills on time, if you've shown them that you're reliable, that you do pay everything off, and you're responsible, they may actually be willing to give you a bit of a break. That has been true for years and years and years, but a lot of people don't bother actually taking that step. If you notice your credit card rate has gone up, and it probably has over the course of the last six months, you could always pick up the phone and ask the credit card company to lower that rate, or to bring it down to the rate it once was a couple of months ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us a little bit more about Non Political News and where people can find it, where people can learn more about it, and more about you.
Vera Gibbons:
Non Political News, you can find it on NonPoliticalNews.com, once you sign on to subscribe, you will get a link to confirm your subscription, and then every day in your inbox, 7:00 a.m., you get a nice [inaudible 00:10:54] of Non Political News in consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty, fitness and diet. Then on Friday, we run guest posts. We've had Jean Chatzky, we have had Peter Greenberg, we've had a bunch of CNBC people up from Bill Griffeth to Ron Insana up to Guy Adami do them.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know you're not a huge social media fan, but people would probably really enjoy following you, where can they?
Vera Gibbons:
Thanks, Bobbi. Yeah. We do have an Instagram account nonpoliticalnews. Like you said, I'm not very good about putting updates on there, but I promise to get better. On Facebook, we're Nonpoliticalnews. Twitter, we're NoPoDaily.
Bobbi Rebell:
NoPoDaily, like it.
Vera Gibbons:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Vera Gibbons, thank you so much. This was wonderful.
Vera Gibbons:
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So my friends, Vera learned some very big lessons very quickly. Financial Grownup tip number one, tune out the advice from well-meaning friends, who want you to take on costs before your business mission and priorities are well defined. Frankly, before you can afford them. Vera still has no clear path to revenue, so she's right to limit her expenses to only the most essential, making sure her emails go out without a hitch and paying her legal bills. She knows that if she adds people on, as she does on occasion, she keeps it freelance, and project-based, so flexibility is still there for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you aren't already, start paying attention to the news regarding the Fed and interest rates. It is going to get personal real fast. If you have any kind of loans, this is important to be paying attention to. But here's the good news, there is an upside, low rates have also meant very low returns for those on fixed incomes or those that just invest in fixed income instruments. Rates for things that you might want to invest in, like CDs, are going to go up. Glass half full my friends. I will leave some links in the show notes of places you can get some great information and stay up to speed on what matters.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button. If you are listening on Apple podcast, or iTunes, please rate the podcast or leave a review. Also, if you liked the show, just tell a friend. Ask them to check it out as well. If you are enjoying the promos, and want one for yourself or for your business, follow me on social media and share them. I will be choosing a winner soon and it could be you. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and Facebook @bobbirebell. DM me your thoughts on the show, and what guests you would like to hear from.
Bobbi Rebell:
Loved how candid Vera Gibbons was with us about the challenges of starting and growing a business. Lots of lessons in hindsight already. So thank you, Vera, for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
When Skillcrush founder and CEO Adda Birnir got laid off from her job at a digital ad agency, she decided to follow the money and discovered a lucrative business she did not even know existed. Her ability to leverage events like South by Southwest and understand how to make tech education appeal to women have driven the phenomenal growth of her startup.
In Adda’s money story you will learn:
-The big “aha” moment she had after being laid off, and seeing that the tech jobs were a lot more secure
-How a side project called Digital Divas, evolved into Skillcrush
-How a chance meeting led to a pivotal business partnership
-How Adda validated the Skillcrush concept
-The key risks and challenges in the early days of Skillcrush
-How they grew the company after a big test at South By Southwest
-The role that an incubator, and those resources played in the success of Skillcrush
-How they raised money from investors
In Adda’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of listening to your potential customers and their problem- before trying to sell a solution
-How to find the best way to appeal to potential customers
-The way Skillcrush overcomes stereotypes about women and coding
In Adda’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How Adda and her business partner set up a system to make sure to fund the company, while paying themselves a salary
-The best way that can apply to your personal life (or your business!)
-Strategies for freelancers to streamline unsteady income
In my take you will learn:
-How to get over being intimidated by new things, like coding
-Why everyone should learn basic coding and web skills
-How creating virtual buckets can help your personal finances, and your business
Episode Links:
Learn more about Skillcrush! skillcrush.com
Try SkillCrush’s 10-day bootcamp! https://learn.skillcrush.com/skillcrush-10-day-bootcamp/
Follow Skillcrush and Adda!
Twitter: @skillcrush @addbjork
Instagram @skillcrush @addabjork
Facebook Skillcrush addabjork
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Adda Birnir:
What we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, that was Adda Birnir. She is CEO of Skillcrush, which is a big and growing online tech education company. She's talking about a big revelation that they had, when they were trying to figure out, how to better appeal to women, something very few tech companies were even trying to do, and this was way back in 2012.
Bobbi Rebell:
More on that in a sec, but first, just a quick welcome to all of our new listeners, if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. And if you're returning, welcome back. We try to keep the shows short, because we value your time. But you can also, of course, binge and listen to a few of them, if you're commuting. Or, if you have more time, you can listen to more episodes, all in a row.
Bobbi Rebell:
The goal is to deliver a valuable money story that you can learn from, hopefully be entertained by, and a money tip, that you can put into action pretty much right away, and weave into your life. If you enjoy the show, please consider taking a minute, and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and thank you so much, to all of you that have already done so.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to Adda, and her story. After being laid off from a digital ad agency, where she was an associate producer, she noticed that the technical people all had jobs. She wanted that security, and of course, who doesn't want the money that goes with that security?
Bobbi Rebell:
So she decided, also, because she talks about the fact that she had a lot of free time, that she would learn to code. And it turned out, it wasn't actually that hard. So fast forward to a side hustle, doing coding projects with a friend, and then, to a business venture that actually didn't work out, but it led to one that did, because of basically a chance meeting. Isn't it always that way? That's just the way it happens sometimes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Get ready for some drama here. This is a good story. Here is Skillcrush CEO Adda Birnir.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adda Birnir, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Adda Birnir:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all of your success. You are the founder and CEO of Skillcrush, which is the country's largest online tech education company. Your mission, of course, to help women and minorities learning digital skills, and you've been touted in the media as, so, for all of these accomplishments, 20 Women To Watch In Media, by Columbia Journalism School. You're one of the 30 Most Important Women In Tech, by Business Insider.
Bobbi Rebell:
We could basically spend the whole podcast going over that stuff, but I'm just happy to have you here, and get a little bit of your time in your busy day, running your growing empire. So thank you for being here.
Adda Birnir:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
The money story that you're going to share with us has a lot to do with how Skillcrush was born.
Adda Birnir:
Yeah, so, this is 2012 now. This is kind of the heyday of the incubator. I mean, they still exist, but they were really big then, and we were interested in exploring, trying to create some sort of software product ourselves.We had been playing around with a couple different ideas, and like I said, Skillcrush, which was called something totally different at the time, it was called Digital Divas, was totally, just like, a fun side product.
Adda Birnir:
We had this Tablet publishing software, so it was basically, like, our goal was to make it easy for online publishers to publish to iPads. That was kind of the thing we thought was like an actual business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it was a total business pivot.
Adda Birnir:
It wasn't even like, a pivot. It was like, an isolated example. We just threw one out, and we're like, "Oh, people think we're interested in this one." It was good. I mean, it was one of those examples that the market tells you what they're interested in. And basically, no one gave two bleeps about the Tablet publishing, and everyone was super interested in the Digital Diva thing.
Adda Birnir:
Then, at the same time, fortuitously, I did this program at CUNY, on the Journalism School. And there, I met a woman named Jennifer McFadden, who went on to become my cofounder at Skillcrush, and she had done a lot of research about the online education space.
Adda Birnir:
So it was sort of, one of those, sort of total kismet moments, where I had this education product, that I didn't have any sense for the business proposition, or the business opportunity, and she had all this deep knowledge about the education space. So that was what really started it.
Adda Birnir:
I will say, though, because we'd had this failed attempt at this Tablet publishing software, I was very, very cautious with Skillcrush. I didn't want to invest in it without validating the idea on some product.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do? What are the steps you took to validate it?
Adda Birnir:
Basically, when you go through this process, what you want to do is, you want to figure out, what is your riskiest assumption? For us, because, at the time, there weren't as many online education players. But there was lynda.com. So we felt like, it's that aspect of it, will people pay for education online, was validated.
Adda Birnir:
That, to us, was not the riskiest assumption. The riskiest assumption for Skillcrush was whether women would pay for, or would be interested in, a technology learning platform. So we designed this experiment, which is that we started a newsletter, and basically, what the sort of offer was, that the newsletter offered, was, we would define a technical term, and find an interesting way. And we'd done a day for 30 days.
Adda Birnir:
We went to South By Southwest, and figured, what we'll do is, we'll pitch this to women at South By Southwest, and they will buy it, with their e-mail address. We considered that sort of like, a transaction, and we figured, if we can't convince women at South By Southwest to purchase this, with their e-mail address for free, obviously, then there's no hope for us.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happens?
Adda Birnir:
So, I think we had set, fill that goal of having 2,000 signups, and we did not get that, because we were doing direct sales. But our hit rate was 90% of them. I mean, everyone we spoke to, we got to sign up for it, so that was kind of our first positive signal. Then we actually, through that process, happened to pitch a woman who happened to work for Mother Jones. So then, she wrote us up, and then, that gave us another 600 signups, or something.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!
Adda Birnir:
That basically ended up with about 1,000 people.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then, what happened from there?
Adda Birnir:
So, from there, we started doing the Term a Day newsletter, and it started to build momentum, and I think we probably signed up, like, 3,000 people. Which, again, just to put this in perspective, this is shortly after Code Academy had gone live, and they had gotten 200,000 people to sign up over a 24-hour period. So I was completely bereft and disappointed by the 2,000. We had applied for the start of incubator, and we got in, and that gave us $25,000 of funding.
Adda Birnir:
The thing that I guess I think about it, like, at the time, I really needed that validation. Looking back on it, I think what I got out of it, more than the $25,000 ... because, honestly, the $25,000 just paid for incorporation. I didn't really have a lot of money, but it really was validation from an external source, that this is a cool idea, and you should keep working on it, and I think at that moment, I really needed that. But I don't think, the money itself, do you know what I'm saying?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Adda Birnir:
I think about this a lot, and looking back on it, I didn't need that validation, and that validation really didn't mean anything. Because they weren't my target audience, right? They didn't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
But at the time ...
Adda Birnir:
But at the time ...
Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, that mattered. Yeah.
Adda Birnir:
Exactly. But I just think about that, when I hear about women saying, "You know, I can't get funded," and I'm like, "Well, just remember, you don't need that validation from something." The only person, the only people that you need to validate your business are your customers, and often, it's easier to get them to validate it, than it is to get a venture capitalist to validate it.
Adda Birnir:
But we did, also from that, we did get another $50,000 as a convertible note from my other investors. That did give us some money, and that sort of about paid us, probably for the next four months, to build out Version 0.2, or whatever, of the product.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this?
Adda Birnir:
A lot of people get very attached to what is their solution, and there's kind of a thing in the startup community, which is that you got a solution in search of a problem. I think the most important thing that I can say to people is, you really have to start from the opposite end, right? You have to start with a problem, and then, come up with a solution for it.
Adda Birnir:
So I would just really encourage everyone, that if you have a business idea, chances are, you're onto something. But, before you kind of go all in on building out what you think is the best solution to this problem that you perceive, is to really talk to the people who are going to be paying for this solution, and really make sure that you understand their problem, and more deeply.
Adda Birnir:
That's sort of the case with Skillcrush. We had a lot of bumps in the road, especially in that first year and a half, and a lot of that was because it wasn't that we hadn't identified a legitimate problem. Because we had.
Adda Birnir:
There were women who could benefit from technical skills, but I will tell you, what we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.
Adda Birnir:
They have some interest, in the sense that technical skills could be helpful. The big insight for us was like, you can't sell women the jobs report. That's not how they purchase that, right? They are looking at, "What is this gonna do for me? What changes will I be able to see in my life?"
Adda Birnir:
That was a fundamental insight that I really didn't have, until I started talking to my customers, and really understanding what their pain points were, and their problems were, and making sure that the solution I was providing really aligned with what problem they were trying to solve.
Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get to your every day money tip, because it's actually a business lesson that applies equally to our personal financial levels.
Adda Birnir:
Yes. One of the biggest kind of "Aha" moments for me with my first business, which I was running with my friend, and we were both freelancers. I remember, we got this big check. I think it was for $10,000, or something, and her impulse was that we should just split it, 50/50. My thought, "Why don't we just set our salaries? We're each going to get $4,000 a month, or something."
Adda Birnir:
I don't remember what it was, these are hypothetical numbers, but I was like, "How about, instead of just splitting every check that comes in 50/50, why don't we put the money in a bank, and take salary, and create the sort of situation you would have, in a normal situation, where you are getting paid, like, a steady salary, even if your actual income is kind of lumpy?
Adda Birnir:
It was really interesting, because this obviously was really helpful for us, just from a perspective of, when you're a freelancer, it's really hard, because your salary and your income is unpredictable. So we sort of artificially created this predictability for us, but it turned out to be a really, really important shift in perspective, in terms of thinking about the business as a third entity, and not sort of seeing it as something, where we were just like, 50/50, but it was like being ... we were like an entity unto itself, that we wanted to grow, and build up.
Adda Birnir:
I think that, in a lot of ways, this is something that is really applicable to anyone who's running a freelance business, even if they're just a one-person freelance shop ... That, to really to start think about your freelancing career as a business, and you want to grow that business, and make sure that business has a really solid foundation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Skillcrush. So much going on. Tell me the latest for summer of 2018.
Adda Birnir:
We are in the process of launching a couple of new blueprints, so when you come to Skllcrsuh, you have two options, in terms of how you want to learn. You can either take our sort of, shorter, more specific skill focus, Blueprints.
Adda Birnir:
Or you can sign up for what we call a Breaking Detect Blueprint, which is our all-inclusive program. You get access to everything that we have, and a lot of personalization. We work with you to set your career goals, and all those things, but we have a couple of new blueprints coming out, where it's going to be launching: a Web developer blueprint, we have a UX Designer blueprint coming out, which is really exciting.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where people can learn more about you, and Skillcrush, and follow you on social media, and all that good stuff?
Adda Birnir:
You just got to skillcrush.com, and sign up for our 10-day boot camp. It's the best way to get started. It's totally free, and you can follow us on Twitter. Just add skillcrush, and on Instagram, at skillcrush. I'm out of Bork on all the platforms, although I'm not the best at this, that you can get ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Spell that out, then.
Adda Birnir:
Oh. A-D-D-A, B-J-O-R-K. It's just, like Bjork the singer, but it also happens to be my middle name, so ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it, because you're from Iceland. Which is a cool, random fact.
Adda Birnir:
Yes, definitely.
Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you when you came to this country? You were like a baby, right?
Adda Birnir:
I was a tiny little baby, yeah, and I speak Icelandic, and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. Say something.
Adda Birnir:
[foreign language 00:13:01]?
Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?
Adda Birnir:
Just, "This really nice letter today."
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, on that note, we'll leave it there, thank you so much.
Adda Birnir:
Thanks for just having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. So here's my take. When Adda and I were talking before the interview, she confessed that she had been so intimidated, just by the concept of coding beforehand, that she was resisting it, until, of course, she learned about them money thing, and all that.
Bobbi Rebell:
But then, when she focused, and tried it, she found out, it actually wasn't that hard.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number One: don't be intimidated by coding, or any skill that can benefit your career. It's basically a language. It can be challenging, she says, but it will open opportunities, and is becoming a basic thing that we all need to know a little bit about, at least, the basic level.
Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you're not directly coding, you may be supervising someone who is coding, or have somebody on your team, or at your company, or a peer. Understanding the basics of what they're doing, is going to help you figure out and understand workflow and project management.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I learned even just basic HTML years ago, and I built a website, literally typing in the codee that's now generally automatically generated for you, I was actually typing in the different codes.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, pre-Wordpress, pre-Squares-based, the whole thing. Skillcrush does have a free 10-day boot camp. So you can do that. I'm going to leave a link in the notes. It's pretty much risk-free, and worth checking out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: the every day money tip that she was talking about was basically about creating buckets for different needs with your money. So that can be really useful in your personal finances, even though she did really for business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Paying yourself the same amount each, especially if you have a variable income, is really useful. And then, you can put everything extra, in a different bucket, for a specific purpose. It's a great way, if you have a big goal, especially a goal that's intimidating, like, saving for a house down payment or something. Put it in a separate bucket. It'll start to add up. You won't even noticing it, and it works.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support of the show. If you like it, please, just tell a friend. Be sure to follow us on social media, and share the promo video, if you like them. You can win one for your business, or even just for yourself. Share them. Whoever the most this month, I'm going to pick someone, and I will make them a promotional video for themselves, or their business.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Twitter, you can follow me @bobbirebell, on Instagram, @obbirebell1. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell, and to learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financial grown-up podcasts.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, [Ada Bernier 00:15:47] learned to move out of a career that left her financially vulnerable. She built a business instead focusing on helping others follow the money. Always a good philosophy when it comes to business and career. So thank you, Adda, for sharing your story, and for getting us one step closer to being financial grownups.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup With Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Stuart 00:16:20], and is a BRK media production.
Shane Snow and his Contently Co-Founders had a booming business- that almost completely crashed after they found themselves strapped for cash and struggling to meet payroll. Plus the nutritional bang-for-the buck of popular diets, including the Keto diet and ramen noodles.
In Shane’s money story you will learn:
-How he and his partners overlooked a key metric as they grew their business, Contently
-The importance of cash flow vs receivables
-The solution the company came up with that saved them, when they only had 2 weeks of cash left on hand
-How the experience impacted Shane’s personal financial plans and habits
In Shane’s money lesson you will learn:
-To pay attention to revenue, but also when it received as well as the net profit
-How to apply his business lessons to your personal financial life
In Shane’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Shane made a nutritional change for health and efficiency
-The financial benefits that came along with the experiment
In my take you will learn:
-Why reading at least a book a week is a habit of many successful people
-My advice on how to read a book a week, starting with Shane Snow’s “Dream Teams”
-How removing every day decisions, like food and clothing choices, can free up your mind to be more focused on other things
Episode Links
Learn more about Shane Snow at shanesnow.com
Buy (and Review!) Shane’s book “Dream Teams”
Buy Shane’s book “Smart Cuts
Follow Shane!
Twitter: @shanesnow
LinkedIn ShanedSnow
Instagram: @ManEatingRobot
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Shane Snow:
We made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Close call for our guest but, spoiler alert, they did escape that near-death experience. The company, Contently. The voice you were hearing was co-founder, Shane Snow, who just released his latest book, Dream Teams. Before we get to more about Shane and the book, a quick welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to those who are returning. We try to keep our episodes to just around 15 minutes because we know you guys are so busy, but you can also, of course, binge if you're a commuter or you just have a little bit more time some days. The idea is that you invest the time and get an inspiring money story from a high achiever that gives you value and you also get an everyday money tip that you can put to work in your life or your work, right away.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, you're going to get that here. Shane Snow is an entrepreneur, a journalist, an author, so much more. I wanted to have him on to talk about his most recent bestseller and that is, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. It's tough to get along, teams are hard. It's sometimes just easier to work alone and he talks a lot about that. Shane jokes that he hates business books, but this book is really more about people and stories and things that we can really integrate into our own lives. I learned a lot of things about history and the world that I thought I knew about, but there were nuances that people have never really shared publicly. And Shane is a master at research and revealing the full story when we didn't even know that we had part of the story. Here is Shane Snow.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shane Snow. You're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Shane Snow:
Thank you, I feel like a grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're definitely a grownup, you have so many accomplishments. The latest one, and we're going to get to all of them later but the latest one is your new book, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. And you've had quite a week promoting it, lots of accolades. Congrats.
Shane Snow:
Thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot, a long journey.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's basically of stories about how different teams work together, and often don't work together.
Shane Snow:
Yes, it's about that paradox. That normally group work is much, much harder than we think it's going to be, to the point that actually working by yourself is often more productive than group work. And yet sometimes we change the world when we work together.
Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that changed the world is your company that you started eight years ago, part of team, you're a co-founder. Tell us about the company. And your money story has to do with what happened when you weren't really watching all the numbers, just some of the numbers.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. So the company started about eight years ago. The business model changed, it grew into something-
Bobbi Rebell:
And the name of the company is?
Shane Snow:
Contently.
Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Shane Snow:
And it grew into a much bigger business than we thought it would, which is great. And initially the first piece of the business that we build was this marketplace for getting freelance journalists and photographers work and getting them paid. And a lot of the clients were brands, so it was this new branded content marketing thing. So Pepsi wants to hire some reporters to go cover a conference and write about it for their blog, that sort of thing.
Shane Snow:
So what happened, we started getting excited because the business was working. We're getting lots of work for these journalists and lots of clients, and we made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We were looking at all the money that our clients were on the hook for paying us and realized that we had this runway for six months before we would need to raise money from investors again, or maybe figure out how to get profitable by then. So things were going great, but we then looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left. Nobody had been paying attention to cash flow. The fact that we actually pay these creative people who do the work for the clients and the clients take a long time to pay us, basically we were floating all of this money. And nobody had bothered to ... We didn't have a finance person, we were a start up.
Bobbi Rebell:
So basically there was a lag between the receivables and the cash that you were actually paying out.
Shane Snow:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically acting like a bank.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. And the more successful we were, the worse it got. And so thank god someone checked and we were like, "Oh, no. We have two weeks left before we literally got out of business because of this problem." And so we founders cut our salaries so that we could put that toward payroll for our employees and we just sort of prayed for a miracle. And the miracle did come, but basically we asked our customers if they'd be willing to pay us upfront for what they excepted to be paying these freelancers. And basically everyone said yes and then we actually got a positive cash float, like a cash carry I guess?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.
Shane Snow:
Where our cash flow was so good that we could grow the company even better. But that was just sort of this miracle. Also we-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you worked together as a team. You worked together as a team and figured it out, right?
Shane Snow:
Right. Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
And investors.
Shane Snow:
Yes, yeah. We asked the clients if they would do that and they all said yes and we got our investors to sort of float us for a few more weeks. But I learned this as sort of a personal lesson, that even through it's sort of obvious, that cash flow can kill you basically. And so I've started paying a lot more attention to my cash flow and my personal finances, as a result of this.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners, regarding your money story?
Shane Snow:
Pay attention to all of the numbers, not just the fun ones. The profit number and their income, that's the funnest number, but you really need to pay attention to-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's really not profit, it was revenue was coming.
Shane Snow:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
The revenue.
Shane Snow:
[inaudible 00:06:20].
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Shane Snow:
Right. The revenue number, exactly. But even in your personal finances I think, paying attention to just the salary number is not actually the one to pay attention to. And when you're getting money in and when you're paying money out is sometimes more important.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip because this is a really good one. I am personally very curious about this because I keep hearing about this and it's a little bit experimental. But let me let you tell it, go ahead.
Shane Snow:
Okay. So I really like doing personal experiments and gonzo journalism, so one time for GQ I ate only this "healthy", in quotes, ice cream for ten days and lost a bunch of weight. And anyways, so I like doing stuff like that. And there's this stuff called Soylent that came out maybe five, six years ago, that's basically like a meal replacement drink, kind of like the goop on the Matrix. It's not supposed to taste like really anything and it's supposed to have everything your body needs.
Bobbi Rebell:
Pure efficiency.
Shane Snow:
Exactly. And the guy who made it, I actually interviewed him about it years ago. The guy who made it, his reason for doing it was so that he wouldn't have to think about cooking or food. It sounds like the most boring thing ever, he was like, "I don't want to think about food, so I made this replacement food." It's interesting. But there's a version of it, I think a competitive company, called Ketolent, which is that, it's like a drink that instead of eating food you just drink this drink all day. And it's chocolate flavored, which is more delicious, but it also puts you in ketosis, which is like a low-carb basically, where your metabolism changes and it's very good for-
Bobbi Rebell:
Are you hungry?
Shane Snow:
No. So that's the thing is ketosis, it changes your metabolism. So that instead of burning basically sugar, it burns lipids, fat, and that's a much more stable energy source. The upside of this, so I started doing this for working out and it's good for blood sugar levels and all that, but the upside of drinking Ketolent instead of food is it's a lot cheaper than going to lunch every day. And you know, you need to take like-
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you eat it for every meal? Is it like a full on thing?
Shane Snow:
Yeah. I mix up two big bottles of it every day. Like on weekends, I'll go to brunch, you can't do it every day or you'd go out of your mind. But you eat it every day or-
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much does it cost?
Shane Snow:
It ends up being something like eight buck a day. If you want to do the pre-mixed ones, which is even more convenient, then it's a little bit more but it's still ... It actually reminds me, I had this friend, one of my best friends in the world, in college he was trying to micro-optimize calories for percent, or whatever, in his diet. And he figured out this optimum combination of oatmeal and rice and he was miserable but he saved so much money.
Bobbi Rebell:
People stereotype that people that want to save money, they eat only ramen noodles while they're paying down their debt. I wonder what the nutritional value per serving, per cost, is for ramen noodles versus this keto diet and all the other diets. That's just, I don't know, interesnting.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. Well, getting it right, because you don't want your brain to not function.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Shane Snow:
I imagine that eating only ramen noodles is very bad also for your digestion I bet.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, wait. Let's talk about your book.
Shane Snow:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because I'm obsessed, I literally meant to just read enough to kind of get through the interview but I read the whole thing. I spent a little over four hours, you spent four years writing Dream Teams. One of my many favorite things about this is that it's almost like a suspense thriller because it told these stories where there's always these zingers at the end of each story.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. So I wanted to explore that paradox, that we say that two heads are better than one and, yeah, all of these things that you just said. And it turns out that research shows that's usually not true, and anyone that has worked in a group project at school knows that sometimes it's much easier to just do it on your own rather than in the group. And the bigger a team gets in business, the slower things get, the more communication is a pain, but there's all sorts of other psychology that basically says that group dynamics get in the way of productivity and progress. And so I wanted to explore that and kind of what does science and research tell us about our common conceptions about working together, so that we can actually fulfill that promise of becoming better than the sum of our parts.
Shane Snow:
So it's a non-fiction, science, and business book, essentially. But I hate business books and I-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I don't feel like this seems like a business book because you have everywhere from Wu-tang Clan ... Did I say that right?
Shane Snow:
Yeah, you did.
Bobbi Rebell:
The Russian hockey team, which, by the way, there's a zinger in there that I did not know. This whole miracle on ice with the US team.
Shane Snow:
Oh, yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know if people knew what really happened on the Russian side but let's not spoil it for them, but you gotta read that one.
Shane Snow:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
The Wright Brothers, the importance of play in being successful, and why a lot of mergers fail. And even you've got George Takei in there and how pop culture and people seeing things be normal changed our cultural expectations.
Shane Snow:
Well, thank you. What I wanted to do is talk about these things and the real research and the real science that can change our minds and, in some cases, blow our minds, about this. But I wanted to do it through stories that are fun, even if you don't care about the lessons. That for me, I wanted to write the kind of book that I would like to read, which would be more cinematic with surprises and twists and stories that I was excited enough to learn about that I would actually want to write about them too. So I'm glad that ... It is a nice compliment that you got through it so fast and enjoyed the stories.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone will get through it so fast and then they can read your previous book, Smartcuts, so it's all good. So Shane, tell us where people can find out more about you and where they can follow you on social media, because I know your selective in your social media.
Shane Snow:
I'm pretty selective in my social media. So shanesnow.com has links to everything. And well, anyone that's listening to your podcast, I can give them my Instagram. It's not Shane Snow, it's maneatingrobot.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Shane Snow:
Yeah, of course. It's self-explanatory, I think.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Shane Snow:
I actually really like maneatingrobot because depending on the punctuation it's either a man eating a robot or it's a robot eating a man.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I have to about about that.
Shane Snow:
Man, eating robot.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ah, ah. I'm a little slow on the uptake. All right, Shane. Thank you so much, this has been great.
Shane Snow:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on the book and all your success.
Shane Snow:
I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, pretty rare to go from bad cash flow management at start ups to the financial versus nutritional value of keto diets and ramen noodles. Bu there you have it, the wonderful Shane Snow, so much fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. In Shane's book, Dream Teams, Shane has a lot of data. One of the data points that he talks about is statistics linking the fact that the most successful people in the world are also what I would call intentional readers, meaning they read at least a book a week and make a point of it. They really carve that time out of their day to make sure that they read because that's where they feel that they learn about the world and become interesting people. You're busy, I'm busy, we're all busy, but they're busy and they find time. I'm right there with you, I know it's hard, but try an experiment, maybe with Shane's book. I read it on my Kindle and it said, for example, that it would be over five hours, but because there were so many notes from Shane's research at the end it was really maybe four and a half, let's say.
Bobbi Rebell:
So this week, this is my challenge to you guys, pick up Dream Teams, you can do it with another book but Dream Teams was good. On your calendar, block 45 minutes either early morning or before bedtime, do it before you turn on the TV, before you reach for the phone and start going through social media, set it an alarm, book it as an appointment in whatever you use to book your appointments. By dedicating 45 minutes-ish, a night, for the week, you'll be done by the end of the week and you'll probably have some interesting takeaways from the book as well and feel like you really got value from that time, versus just mindlessly scrolling through your feeds on your social media. Maybe then go write a nice review for Shane, authors love reviews. I love reviews, you could write a review for the podcast too. But consider making it a habit to go through and read a book a week, once you do it, you might really enjoy it and it'll stick and it'll be a great thing adding to your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Shane talked about how his keto-loving friend liked the idea of not having to think about what to eat, it just removed a decision. So removing decisions that are discretionary is something that a lot of leaders do. Consider that, maybe have the same breakfast every day, or buy all the same socks. Whatever it is that removes a decision, that removes having to do that one more thing each day. My son's school, for example, next year has uniforms, so that's going to be a new thing for us. He's pretty good in the mornings anyway, but it's going to be interesting to see how removing the decision of what to wear in the morning impacts his morning routine and, in turn, impacts my morning routine.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we hope that you are making Financial Grownup part of your routine. If you like the promo videos that you see on social media, share them, you may even win one for your company or yourself. And just tell a friend if you like the show, and let them know so we can grow our community. If you want to be a guest, you have a great money story or money tip you want to share, tell us by emailing at info@gfinancialgrownup.com, that's info@financialgrownup.com, and you may be a guest on the show. Follow us on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook I am @bobbirebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Shane Snow has come a long way from his cash flow crunch, so thank you Shane for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup, with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Investment advisor Andy Wang, host of the Inspired Money podcast, stepped out of his comfort zone, tried something that scared him, and connected with new clients and friends including celebrities like Christie Brinkley.
In Andy’s money story you will learn:
-How Andy balances his hobbies with his growing business and podcast
-The strategy Andy uses to overcome his fear of trying new things
-Why he originally stopped guitar lessons after just 4 sessions- and what brought him back to music
-What is Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar?
-The big call he got from Christie Brinkley’s team
In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:
-How having a hobby that opens him up to new experiences grows his social and business circle
-Why he believes the most successful people are those who force themselves out of their comfort zones
-The quote from Tina Fey that inspires Andy
In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How to recover from mistakes
-Specifically what to do if you own a stock that is not performing- and most importantly what to do next if you still believe in the stock
-How to keep up with your investments and automate them so you can be free to do other things
In my take you will learn:
-tips for things you can automate in addition to bill paying and investing
-how to get more sleep, to be more productive in business
-the importance of letting clients see you outside of transactional and business settings in order to build longer and stronger relationships
If you want to win a promotional video for you or your business- remember to share them when you see them on social media!
And if you have a money story and every day money tip you would like to share- write us at info@financialgrownup.com
and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of the podcast!
Episode Links
Learn about Andy’s company at http://www.runnymede.com/
Listen to his podcast at http://blog.runnymede.com/topic/podcast
On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/runnymedecap/
Follow Andy
Twitter @RunnymedeCap
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/taropatch
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/inspiredmoney.fm/
Transcription
Andy Wang:
One day, I was driving to work and my phone rang. I answered, and the person said, "This is Christie Brinkley's office calling. Are you available to play a private event?" So long story short, I played a small, intimate event for Christie and about 10 of her friends and family. It was a crazy night.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So I don't know about you, but I'm pretty happy just kind of staying in my comfort zone. But let's be real: It gets boring and staying still is also not usually a really good business plan or career advancement strategy. So we're all in for a year with this guest coming up. But first, a quick welcome to anyone new that is joining us for the first time. You're going to notice the episodes are relatively short, especially compared to other money, business, entrepreneur-focused shows out there. It's done very much on purpose. We're going for about 15 minutes, give or take. The idea is that, you can listen between things, when you have a sliver of free time, and walk away feeling like you learned something of value, and hopefully, smiled a bit, too. But we also know, a lot of our listeners like to binge on a few episodes at a time, so if you're commuting or running errands or something that takes a little bit longer, you can listen to two, three, four episodes and get an hour of content. So we just want to be flexible and work with you. And of course, welcome back to our regular listeners. Thank you. If you have not hit Subscribe, please do so, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and there are some really amazing ones coming up. So I'm exciting to share them with all of you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to Andrew Wang. He's an Investment Advisor at Runnymede Capital. But you may know him as the host of the Inspired Money Podcast, or he may have been the entertainment at a party you went to. Really. Listen. Here is Andy Wang.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy Wang, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Andy Wang:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. I can't believe that I'm here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Finally. I know, I've been trying to get you on for a while. You're very busy, you're the host of the Inspired Money Podcast. You also have your own company, Runnymede Capital Management, the only, thank you very much. And you are acclaimed as an advisor and an influencer, so much so, that you are on the Investopedia 100 Most Influential Advisors. So this is an honor, Andy.
Andy Wang:
The honor is mine. I'm still trying to convince all of my coworkers that when I'm on Facebook, that I'm working.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're always working, Andy, even when you're having fun, and even when you're doing your hobbies, one of which involves getting over your fears, learning new skills, and even meeting some celebrities. Tell us your money story.
Andy Wang:
Yeah. It goes back through, you and I have talked about this before, "How can we do so many things?" We all have to-do lists that are a mile long. It's important for us to find and make time for family, hobbies, and to decompress. So my Financial Grownup story is about doing something that scares you. It takes me back to when I was in high school. Remember the days when there were music videos on MTV?
Bobbi Rebell:
I do.
Andy Wang:
I always wanted to learn guitar, so the summer after graduation, I mentioned this to my dad. And without hesitation, he replied, "Well, go for it. Don't just think about it." So that was great advice. I took four lessons, and I never aspired to play in front of everybody. I had the worst stage fright. If I had to perform in front of a group, my hands got clammy, they shook. I literally got a stomachache. So years later, because my wife was born and raised in Hawaii, and over many trips back there, I fell in love with Hawaiian music and the Hawaiian culture. So there just aren't that many people in the New York Area who play Hawaiian slack key guitar.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is Hawaiian slack key guitar? Just so we know.
Andy Wang:
Hawaiian slack key guitar is a folk tradition that was born in Hawaii in the late 1800s. The legend is this: The locals didn't know how to tune the guitars, so they slacked or loosened the strings to suit their vocal range and their music. So I slacked my guitar strings, and I would get invited to play at weddings, parties, corporate events. And I had to get over my fear.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you got over your fear, and you started playing. And what's interesting is, this led to a bunch of different things. It led to celebrities, it led to new business. Tell us more.
Andy Wang:
Yeah. One day, I was driving to work and my phone rang. Even though I didn't recognize the number, I answered, and the person said, "This is Christie Brinkley's office calling. Are you available to play a private event?" So long story short, I played a small, intimate event for Christie and about 10 of her friends and family. She invited me to join them for dinner afterwards. She's just a super, super-nice person. It was a crazy night. The financial takeaway, I think is this: Our personal networks and connections that we make to people, that benefits our business, or benefits the work that I do. And when people can see me out of context: not wearing a tie, not being in my office, they see me wearing an aloha shirt, playing guitar with my family, it enables me to make those human connections, and meet all kinds of interesting people. After all, music is a language.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not about business that day. It's about starting the relationships that eventually, some of them, or maybe friends of theirs, or acquaintance of theirs, become your clients, in a very holistic way.
Andy Wang:
That's exactly right. It's about making friends. And just meeting people, and making those connections.
Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us, for our listeners, what is the takeaway for them? How can they apply this to their own lives, and to their own finances?
Andy Wang:
Well, my avocation has taught me that we can live richer lives by forcing ourselves past our comfort zones. Whether it's learning an instrument, starting a podcast, investing your 401(k), sometimes it's as simple as just opening up and reviewing your financial statements. I mean, we always hear the stories that, in a bear market, people don't want to even look at their financial statement. So pushing yourself to do things that scares you can really lead to magic happening. Tina Fey has a quote that I love, and it's, "The fun is always on the other side of yes." Surveys of millionaires support this, too, because there's a common characteristic that millionaires share. And that's having an openness to take on new experience and try new things. If your boss asks you to take on a new project or to lead a team, the answer should be, "Yes."
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that people that try new things, I'm kind of stating the obvious. But I guess, why is it that people who try new things are, in your mind, more successful?
Andy Wang:
Having a willingness to try new things, it's like, they say, "Fake it until you make it." You have to be open to new opportunities. Sometimes, these are opportunities that you would even imagine yourself doing. But by saying yes and to committing to it, that's how you're going to learn. I mean, that's how we all learn.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. But let's go to your everyday money tip, because it's kind of the reverse of commitment, and committing to your ideas. It's also kind of being okay taking a more, I don't know, kind of stepping back a little and being okay with being, maybe wrong sometimes?
Andy Wang:
Yes. My money tip: We all make mistakes, and when you're investing, my money tip is to cut your losses. I took this simple rule from a successful hedge fund manager. Too often, people let losers ride, in hope that they'll come back. We all have those dogs in our portfolio. And the reality is that, losses have a tendency to grow. It's almost like a disease or cancer in our portfolios. So if you really life something and want to be a long-term owner, be willing to enter, exit, and re-enter again if necessary. The fund manager who taught me this, he's willing to buy and sell a position, five, six, seven times. So if you cut losses, let the winners ride, you'll set yourself up for long-term gains, and lessen your term pain.
Bobbi Rebell:
So just to pull something out of there. So what you're saying is, if you still believe in a stock and it's going down, that doesn't mean you have to ride it to the very bottom. You could sell it, take some loss, and then re-buy it at a lower level. It doesn't mean you don't still believe in the company necessarily, you're just not okay with the price, where it's going in the short term. Is that where you're getting at?
Andy Wang:
Correct. The whole idea is that, if you pick a company that you love, you may not know the precise timing that's going to make sense, like, the optimal time to buy it. So you have to be willing to buy it, but then, set a limit, so that, if it goes down and it's not working in your favor, that you have to be willing to cut it. And you may come back and re-purchase that stock, but you just, you want to eliminate the potential for losses to grow into bigger losses. And then, you're stuck, because you're kind of handcuffed, because then you're not sure: Should you wait, or should you not?
Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, what are some tactics that people can use to actually do this?
Andy Wang:
Well, my advice is that, people should pay like, pick a number. Pick a number that you're willing to stomach. Sometimes, that could be, if it goes down 5 percent, if it goes down 10 percent, and then, in your brokerage account, you could set up a stop loss order to automatically trigger if the stock hits that level.
Bobbi Rebell:
In order words, you're automating it and taking the emotion out of it.
Andy Wang:
That's correct. You can set it up so that this could be happening while you're taking a nap somewhere, or even if you're on the beach: If the stock goes down 5 percent, 10 percent, whatever your limit is, you're controlling the amount of loss that you're willing to let that get to.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much, Andy. So tell us more about what's going on at Inspired Money. Tell us about, we haven't actually talked much about it, because the title is actually very meaningful to what you talk about.
Andy Wang:
Yeah, someone told me recently that money is not something that they associated with inspiration. So on the Inspired Money Podcast, we really try to explore money conversations with successful people on how to be more purposeful, more intentional, and make your money more meaningful. And I'm having a lot of fun with it, because I'm talking to such a diverse group of people, ranging from entrepreneurs to those in non-profit. I've talked to actors, I've talked to screenwriters, musicians. I mean, we all have to live and deal with money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm waiting for the Christie Brinkley episode, so that'll be one to watch. Right?
Andy Wang:
My fingers and toes are crossed, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where everyone can find you.
Andy Wang:
And thanks so much. Listeners can find me at Runnymede.com or @RunnymedeCap on Twitter. That's R-U-N-N-Y-M-E-D-E. We help people to plan for retirement, protect and grow their investments. We also help business owners to set up and manage their company 401(k) plans. And then, for Inspired Money, you can find me at InspiredMoney.fm, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Andy. I really appreciate you coming on.
Andy Wang:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that advice from Andy, my friends: Take the emotion out. So let's talk about that. Financial Grownup Tip number 1: We automate lots of things, just like Andy suggested. Stock sales is one example. Paying bills is another thing. But it's just good to automate things that we don't always make rational decisions about. So in addition to stocks and bill paying and those kind of things that we think about automating, I'm going to go to something that is non-financial, but that does have financial consequences if we don't pay attention to it. And that is sleep, and getting a good night's sleep. You know what we can all do, to get a better good night's sleep? Set a sleep timer on your media. It can be the television and yes, you can put your phone or your computer on a timer as well, to go into sleep mode. In fact, there's tons of apps to even measure the quality of your sleep.
Bobbi Rebell:
But I think the most important thing is to not be actively using the actual devices. And sometimes, it's really hard to do that. So set a sleep time. Think about how many nights we intend to watch just one TV show, one half-an-hour TV show, and you know they all go rolling right into the next show. So it's really hard to do that. Or we say we're going to check our social media for a limited time, and then, you look up at the clock, if you even do look up at the clock. And then, "Oh, my gosh, it's past midnight." So let's automate that, so that it goes off. And try to not turn it back on when it goes off, kind of like the snooze alarm in the morning. Just, when it goes off, let it go off. We know that if we get more and better-quality sleep, we're going to function better. We're going to perform better at work, at our jobs, with our businesses. And in the end, that will result in a better chance at hiring profits and more success. So let's do it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number 2: Andy quoted Tina Fey as saying, "The fun, it's always on the other side of yes." And I would add, "The profit is on the other side of yes." Come from a place of "Yes." Don't forget to have fun. Keep an eye, though, on where the profit can be. If you say "No," there is zero chance of fun and zero chance of profit. Andy not only has a great side hustle from this skill playing Hawaiian slack key guitar, go Google it. After this is over, you can learn even more. He meets celebrities like Christie Brinkley, one-on-one. Super fun. And to be sure, he gets new business in an authentic way that bonds him to clients and makes them more likely to stay with him long-term, because they see what a great guy he is. They see him in a different context from just meeting him behind a desk in the office or through phone calls, or through other ways of communication, emails and all that stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, love hearing from all of you. Keep sharing our promo videos on social media for a chance to win one for your business, or just for you. And please rate and review Financial Grownup on Apple Podcasts, and of course, hit the Subscribe button, to make sure you don't meet any upcoming episodes. And tell your friends if you like it. We really love that the show is growing, and want to keep it that way. So make sure to tell everyone that you think would enjoy Financial Grownup. You can follow me @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Instagram, BobbiRebell1. Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. And of course, you can also go to my website, BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and sign up for our newsletter.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy is a true Financial Grownup, blending all that he loves together: family, friends, music, and his business. He is a great role model, so thank you, Andy for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.
Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.
In Carrie’s money story you will learn:
-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New York City!
-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000
-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding
-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”
-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable
-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones
-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!)
In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:
-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign
-How to determine the budget
-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals
-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures
-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time
-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value
-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies
In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her big negotiating strategy
-What she means when she says to hit the mute button
-How to use awkwardness to your advantage
-The secret to stalling as a strategy
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies
-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential
-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved.
To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!
Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!
EPISODE LINKS
Likeable.com
Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!
Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com
Get Carrie’s book Work it!
Follow Carrie!
Twitter @CarrieKerpen
Instagram @CarrieKerpen
Facebook Carrie Kerpen
Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!
Transcription
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?
Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.
Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.
Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.
Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-
Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.
Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?
Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.
Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.
Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.
Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.
Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?
Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.
Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.
Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.
Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending.
In Jill’s money story you will learn:
-The negotiation that went on during her divorce
-The advice her father gave her and the significance of his perspective
-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person
In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:
-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment
-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations.
-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses
In Jill’s money tip you will learn:
-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs
-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance
-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card
-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!
In My Take you will learn:
-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods
-How to know what to insure
-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance
Episode Links
Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/
Check out the Better Off Podcast
Follow Jill!
Twitter: @jillonmoney
Facebook Jill On Money
Instagram: @jillonmoney
Linkedin JillonMoney
YouTube Jill Schlesinger
Transcription
Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.
Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.
Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.
Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.
Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-
Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.
Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."
Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.
Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?
Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.
Bobbi Rebell:
True true.
Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.
Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.
Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?
Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."
Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.
Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.
Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?
Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.
Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.
Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.
Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.
Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.
In Scott’s money story you will learn:
-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans
-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision
-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how that impacted their financial wellbeing.
-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt
-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers
-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences
-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it
In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:
-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school
-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition.
-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.
In Scott’s money tip you will learn:
-How you can get medical school debt forgiven
In My Take you will learn:
-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven
-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness
-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt
EPISODE LINKS
Government website links:
Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor:
This is the article by Melanie Lockert.
You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!
You can consolidate your student debt, and get more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com
Follow Scott!
Twitter @radiology911
Transcription
Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.
Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?
Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?
Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?
Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?
Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.
Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.
Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?
Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?
Scott Steenburg:
No, no.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?
Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.
Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?
Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.
Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.
Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.
Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.
Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15..
In Paulette’s money story you will learn:
-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup
-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame
-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing
-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast
-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career
-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired
-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs
-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients
-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged
In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.
-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges
In Paulette’s money tip you will learn
-How she gets things for free!
-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community
-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups
-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”
-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls
-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy
Episode Links
Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com
Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!
Twitter: @PaulettePerhach
Instagram: @PaulettePerhach
Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/
Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !
If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com
If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell
Transcription
Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.
Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.
Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.
Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.
Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.
Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?
Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.
Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.
Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.
Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-
Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?
Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.
Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.
Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.
Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.
Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?
Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.
Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?
Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.
Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.
Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.
Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.
Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?
Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.
Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.
Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.
Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?
Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.
Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.
Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.
Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.
In Ron’s money story you will learn:
-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college
-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back
-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and get to the important information
-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes
-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”
In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:
-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now
-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid
-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time
-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out
In Ron’s money tip you will learn:
-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games
-How he is able to get discount tickets to events
-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets
-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!
In My Take you will learn:
-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand
-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business.
-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research
-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it.
EPISODE LINKS
Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com
Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber
Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled
Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”
Resources recommended by Ron Lieber
Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney
SavingforCollege.com
Follow Ron!!
Twitter @RonLieber
Instagram @ronlieber
Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor
StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!
Transcription
Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.
Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.
Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
No.
Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?
Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.
Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?
Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?
Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?
Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?
Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.
Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?
Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.
Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.
Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.
Bobbi Rebell:
So true.
Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?
Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?
Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.
Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.
Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.
In Kayla’s money story you will learn:
-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior
-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences.
-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year
-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced
-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account
-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21
-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture
-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource
In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:
-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending
-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques
-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending
In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:
-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions
-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances
-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected
-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA.
In My Take you will learn:
-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business
-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla.
Episode links:
kaylasloan.com
Twitter @kaylarsloan
Instagram @kaylarsloan
Facebook @krsloan
Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month
You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt