The market for Initial Public Offerings is red hot. But before jumping in, financial grownups need to understand how they work, and why they can be a lot more complicated than many people know. 

Episode Links:

• Stephan Paternot's Financial Grownup episode

• Allison Task's Financial Grownup episode

• Tanya Van Court's Financial Grownup episode

• ETF’s that invest in IPO’s

• Renaissance Capital IPO ETF

• Investopedia does a great job explaining IPO’s here

• Read more about the Pinterest IPO

• Read more about the Instinet IPO Bobbi invested in here
  

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. 

In Nathan's money story you will learn:

• Why it's so important to let children make decisions

• Why he feels like his parents helped to make him an entrepreneur

• Why he feels like his success is due to his parents never telling him no (and when they did instead)

• What he learned at the age of 5 by being given the option between Pizza Hut for dinner or a sleep over with friends

In Nathan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels like the idea of only focusing on one thing isn't practical

In Nathan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How you can use an app to book a hotel room for just a few hours during a day trip rather than spending money for an entire night

In My Take you will learn:

• Take 5 minutes each day this week and create a system for something that happens regularly

• By letting your children make choices- you empower them

Episode Links:

• Nathan's book How to be a Capitalist Without Any Capital

• Nathan's podcast The Top Entrepreneurs in Money, Marketing, Business and Life

• Recharge app for booking a stay for just a few hours

Check out Nathan's website -

www.NathanLatka.com

Follow Nathan!

• Instagram - @NathanLatka

• Twitter - @NathanLatka

• Facebook - @NathanWLatka

• LinkedIn - @NathanLatka

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you will learn a very important tip on how you can help to raise a successful child. #RaisingChildren #SuccessTips #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Nathan Latka:
You have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitors have already paid to learn, right, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it. Then you add your own twist at the end, and that's when people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, specially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Controversial advice from our guest millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author, Nathan Latka. He is everywhere, so if you haven't heard of him yet, that's probably gonna change pretty fast. He is high energy and will get you motivated to make more money after listening to him. This guy is all about systems and strategies. Welcome all, so glad to have you here. As our returning listeners know, we talk to high achievers about key money related events in their life that played a role in growing up to be financial grownups. Lessons learned and simple everyday money tips you can use right away to make your life richer, all in around 15 minutes. Big treat today. Nathan Latka founded his first company at the ripe old age of 19 with just 119 dollars in the bank. He now considers himself retired, but I would question that given how much this now 29 year old has on his plate between his podcast, his new bestselling book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital, a TV show in development with CNBC that he's gonna tell us about, and oh, so much more, here is Nathan Latka.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Nathan Latka, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi, thank you for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited because I have in my hand an early copy, and it may be out by the time this happens, of your new book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. And let me tell you, I think you are the Tim Ferriss of your generation, that is a huge compliment because I'm a massive Tim Ferriss fan. So congratulations on the book.

Nathan Latka:
Well, we'll see what happens. The publisher, which is the biggest I think in the world, Random House, they go, "Nathan, we don't know if we like this book because it's not timeless. These strategies, you know, we can't sell a thousand of this book a decade from now." I'm going, "Yeah, it's urgent." The first person who purchases will have the biggest advantage because these things will not work five, 10 years from now. And this is true about life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very specific and a lot of the tools and methods that you talk about, and will even drop some names of some websites that I was not really aware of, are really awesome, some apps I should say. So for example, we were referencing the four hour work week, so it is very much of the moment, but I want to take a step back in time Nathan, to a story that you mentioned briefly in your book, but we are going to expand on, and it is your money story. So people know that I am a huge Cheesecake Factory fan, you were a fan of Pizza Hut. So we're gonna talk about Pizza Hut for your story. Go for it.

Nathan Latka:
I remember I was like five years old, we were in this blue mini van, my mom loved it, and we were driving home and I go, "Mom, dad, can we go to pizza tonight for dinner?" Which was like a treat for me, and I also had a sleep over coming up, and yeah, I think that weekend, where there was four or five playmates I had coming over, and both of these things obviously cost money. They're dinner or I had my friends over, my parents have to pay to feed all of them, and then take them home in the morning and clean up messes. So my mom basically wanted to say no to pizza hut or no to the sleepover, and so she gave me, instead of saying no to either, she just gave me a choice and said, "Nathan, you know you can either choose, we can either choose to do pizza tonight or do the sleepover, but we can't do both. Right, 'cause they both cost money." And I thought for a second in the backseat and then said back, "Mom, can I choose to get into my piggy bank and take us pizza out tonight?" And they laughed after that realizing what I was doing, and ultimately both decided to take us out to dinner and I still did the sleepover, but the lesson there is clear, which is, give your kids decisions, not answers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you as a child wanted to find a solution, which in this case, and maybe you would not say this as an adult, was to tap your savings. Maybe as an adult you would let's say, try to up your income.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, or all kinds of things, right? I mean, the trick is there, is you're not giving your children the answer, you're setting up a decision and you're teaching them to build that decision making muscle. This is very rare in today's world, in my opinion.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell we, what is the takeaway for our audience there looking back? What did you learn and how does it apply to your life now?

Nathan Latka:
Well look, I mean, today I'm very different than I was when I was five years old, right? I mean, I have many, many different things going on, and so one of the things I talk about is, and I live this out every day is, there's a lot of people, in college for example, you're forced to essentially pick a major, right, when you're a sophomore, or you want to be forced into one thing. And this doesn't make a lot of sense to me, 'cause think about a bridge your going over, right, in your city. If it had one point of failure when the winds hit 20 miles per hour, you don't want to be going over that bridge, but a lot of us build our lives around a single point of failure. So the idea that you should only focus on one thing, and there's a lot of bestselling business books that sell this concept.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think there's actually a book called, The ONE Thing.

Nathan Latka:
The ONE Thing and Essentialism, because it sells. It's a really good story, and by the way, I love those guys. I know them all, but it's not practical, and that's because you never want a single point of failure. You want to always be throwing spaghetti noodles up the wall, you don't know which are gonna stick, and then when you see which ones stick, you double down on those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip, because this is something more and more people are traveling, we're not always working in an office, whether we're moving around, whether we work from home or we're going to see clients or traveling with our clients, and there is downtime, which can be wasted time.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, so I travel a lot and like to be efficient, and I would usually, I'd always go to New York on day trips, and I used to have to buy a hotel room because when I landed at 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 AM in the morning, I had to go take a shower somewhere. I would leave the hotel room and only use it for four or five hours. It was a total waste of money for 300, 400 bucks. Now there's this app called Recharge which I use, where when you land in any city really, you can go on Recharge and book an amount of hours in a hotel room. So you go in, get some sleep, get a shower, do you makeup, do your hair, and get ready to go to that meeting.

Nathan Latka:
The old concept in this book is, the folks that are really wealthy in the world today, they climbed a certain ladder, and any time someone climbs a ladder to power or wealth, they then remove rungs from that ladder. They make it more complex so that no one else can climb it and challenge them. And so this group has sold us on four rules, and ultimately these are rules that you shouldn't believe that you must break, and we've talked about a few of them. The first, you don't want to focus on one thing, right? The second is, you should totally feel comfortable copying your competitors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which has been used. To give examples in your book of how this has been used so successfully by some of the biggest companies in the world.

Nathan Latka:
But Bobbi, I bet your audience listening right now when they hear this, they're thinking, "Ugh, I feel dirty. It feels unethical. It feels slimy to copy my neighbor." I bet you they feel that. This is the problem with this tactic. People do this all the time 'cause it's smart, but humans, your natural emotion when you hear the word copy, is it feels bad. But here's, I mean, Facebook rips off every Snapchat feature, right? Steve Jobs went into the Xerox research lab and pulled a bunch of research out of there and basically copied that and that's what made the Lisa. That's what made the Mac and the iPhone and things like this. So you have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitor has already paid to learn, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it, then you add your own twist at the end, and that's where people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I love about this book Nathan is the detail. You made a decision to put a lot of your own personal data out there. Tell me about that approach to writing this book.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, I mean, it's very risky, right? Because the stuff will get old after four or five years, so again, this book is urgent. Say, you know, in page six I have my income statement and my tax return. My actual corporate tax return from 2013, where I was in my dorm room at 21, and we did 939,378 dollars in sales, and I started hiring my team. I put my board deck on page 35, and then I get into more personal finance stuff, right? Where I talk about how I used my very small Instagram following to get a free Rolls-Royce with an email striped on page 118. Or I used, how I did my first real estate deal, it was a 280 thousand dollar deal, where I only had to put essentially five grand down, and it [inaudible 00:08:31] 16 hundred dollars a month. That PNL is on page 149. So there's all kinds of examples here and there's not a big theme. They don't really connect. They're really individual stories that your audience can pick up, flip through and learn to drive their own side hustle and create some more financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what scares you? You have such wonderful confidence. You are how old now?

Nathan Latka:
29, just turned 29.

Bobbi Rebell:
The ripe old age of 29. What have you not done that you are hesitant about?

Nathan Latka:
Nothing really scares my in business, but I'll tell you what scares me in life. I don't know if anyone in your audience has ever gotten mono, but it basically knocks you out. You have to sleep.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's your health.

Nathan Latka:
Well, no, no, no. Health is one thing, but let me be more specific. When you're laying in bed for seven days straight, and your brain is the brain of an entrepreneur, you actually start to go a little insane because your brain goes a million miles an hour in that quiet time, but your body can't keep up with it. So my biggest fear is I get to some point in life where my mind is still going a million miles an hour, but my body can't keep up and execute.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll leave it there, but I want to hear from you. Where can people find out more about all of your ventures?

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, well we're excited. We just signed a TV deal with CNBC, which we didn't talk about. We're very excited about that. It is called Million Dollar Road Trip. So it will be like Shark Tank on the street, basically me walking up to random companies on the street, and in under 20 minutes or less flipping up my checkbook and buying the whole business or investing on the spot.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of like a cross between The Profit and Shark Tank, and by the way, we've had both Barbara Corcoran and Kevin O'Leary on this podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Both great, love them both. So anyways, we're very excited. Again, this book guys, it'll get old. You can't wait. It's one of those things, like the first person who reads it has the biggest advantage. So you want to grab it now. You go to nathanlatka.com/book to get it, and the best way to stay in touch with me, I am on Twitter every day, I'm @NathanLatka. That's L-A-T-K-A.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Nathan. This has been amazing.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, Nathan's energy is contagious. Here we go. Financial grown up tip number one. Nathan is all about systems because he is at a point where things would literally fall apart almost instantly if he didn't have those systems in place, but for most of us, myself included, we can muddle by. So they're kind of haphazard because we don't have to have, but we would be so much better off if we had the right systems. And we know we'd be better off with them in place. Even something as simple as automatic reordering of coffee that we drink at home, that we make at home that we ran out of, but we don't have a system in place to reorder it, and then you know what happens. We go out to get the expensive coffee at the coffee shop, but we're too busy. So take five minutes each day this week, okay? Everyone do this. Take five minutes each day this week and create system for something small but that happens regularly, like the coffee. So if you run out of coffee all the time or you run out of whatever it is that you use on a regular basis, or it could be bill paying, bills that come every month, automate that. DM me on the socials and let me know what you did. I need ideas myself. On Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell. You can also email at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love what Nathan learned from his parents that he talked about in his money story, because by not telling children what is happening when it comes to a money decision, but letting them make a choice, you empower them. This can apply to so many other situations in our personal lives and in our careers. Empower others to make decisions by giving them the specific options and the outcome that would happen based on the choice they make, and let them run with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, Nathan's book is called How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. It is an intense book everyone, but it is good. It is very specific. He literally gives you screen grabs of data that is very personal to him. I was a little shocked but he put it out there, and good for him, and good for us 'cause we learn from it. Go check it out along with his podcast The Top, and of course, big thanks to Nathan Latka for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Steward 00:12:57] and is a BRK Media production.

3 dumb things smart people do with their money

• How to avoid taking advice from the wrong people- and how to find the right trusted sources.

• How to protect yourself from identity theft, and avoid doing the dumb things that make you vulnerable.

• How to both avoid spending money on the wrong insurance, and how to know what insurance you do need. Plus how to adjust your insurance as you go through different life stages as a financial grownup.

Episode Links:

• Jill’s book Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money

• Website - Jill on Money

• Jill on Money podcast

Follow Jill!

• Twitter - @JillonMoney

• Facebook - @JillonMoney

• Instagram - @JillonMoney

• LinkedIn - @JillonMoney

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. 

In Tanja's money story you will learn:

• The flip side of the side hustle

• When to call it quits

• Why she decides to leave her side hustle as a yoga instructor

In Tanja’s money lesson you will learn:

• Being aware of your options

• If you're side hustle is going to hold you back

• Realizing that a side hustle may not be forever and that's okay

In Tanja's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The surprising places you can schedule your dental and eye exams to save you money

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it’s important to be clear about your purpose if you have a side hustle

• The importance of knowing if your healthcare is valid overseas
  

Episode Links:

• Tanja's book Work Optional

• The Fairer Cents podcast

Check out Tanja's website -

• Our Next Life

Follow Tanja!

• Instagram - @our_nextlife

• Pinterest - @our_nextlife

• Twitter - @our_nextlife

• Facebook - @ournextlife

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Tanja Hester:
Within that year of quitting, I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you guys have side hustles, multiple income streams? It's kind of becoming the normal thing to do these days, but they are also, if we're being honest, second jobs, and sometimes it just becomes too much. Welcome everyone. The show is growing and we have a lot of new listeners. Thank you for checking us out. I would love to learn how you heard about the show, so special ask here. Let me know how you heard of the podcast. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, or on Twitter at BobbiRebell, and you can always email at hello@financialgrownup.com and feel free to give other feedback as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to our guest. She is Tanja Hester. First of all, she has one of my favorite podcasts, The Fairer Cents, with Kara Perez. She also is an award winning blogger. Her blog is called Our Next Life, and we were able to get her on the show because of her new book. It is called Work Optional, and based on the story she shared, it also could be called "And Side Hustles Optional," because it seems like everyone expects you to have a side hustle these days and sometimes you just don't or you just can't anymore. And learning when it is okay to say no is definitely a very Financial Grownup thing. Here is Tanja Hester. Hey, Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Hey Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am happy to be talking to you about your new book: Work Optional, Retire Early. A lot of people already know you though because you're an overachiever, Tanja. You have, first of all, your blog. Beyond the fact that you're a part of the FIRE movement and you are financially independent, you are retired. This is some busy retirement by the way, just saying. Your blog, Our Next Life, was Blog of the Year for the Plutus Awards, which is huge. I am not a Plutus Awards winner. I was nominated though. This podcast was nominated, I should say. You're also the cohost of really one of, if not my very favorite podcast, Fairer Cents, so love all of them. So happy to have you.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you. Wow, that was the best intro ever, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is all sincere and all true. I really loved your book. I actually have asked you to talk about a money story from your book that really hit home with me and I think is really relevant to so many listeners, and something we're going to be talking more about, and that is the flip side to the side hustle and when to know when to call it quits basically, because in the book you talk about leaving your side hustle as a yoga instructor, and I really wanted to hear more. So tell us your money story, Tanya.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I started my career in DC and then LA, and at the time I was making not no money, but close to no money, especially considering how expensive those places are to live. And so I started teaching yoga when I think I was 23 or so. I loved yoga. I needed a side hustle. It was relatively low startup cost. I really do recommend actually teaching fitness for folks who want a side hustle, because you get paid to work out, and the overhead, you don't have to invest a whole lot to get certified, and it also makes you really comfortable on your feet and makes you a better public speaker, which are all my side effects. I did that for a long time. I also then started teaching spinning to supplement that, so I was doing both yoga and spinning. Yeah. About eight or nine years in I started realizing, for my main job, which was as a political consultant, I was having to travel a lot and I was starting to sub out more classes, or I was occasionally having to say no to things at my main job because of my class schedule, or I felt like I was subbing out too much stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you had to have a commitment to that people. You were on the schedule.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Yeah, and I had students who were my regulars who expected me to be there. It just got to a point where my main career and my side hustle were really in direct conflict with each other and I realized that continuing to teach yoga on the side was actually holding me back in my career, and was preventing me from being able to be a full team player, being able to say yes to things, so I made the really hard choice to give it up, which was hard because I love teaching yoga. I loved that community that I built, but within that year of quitting I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you prepare to lose that income stream? Because that is something a lot of people worry about.

Tanja Hester:
The truth is, I want to be clear that I'm in a financial unit, so my husband Mark was also working really hard through all of this and he had earned more. I think that this, I'm not remembering exactly, but I think he may have gotten a little bit of a promotion that year that I quit, so that kind of smoothed it out a little bit. But the truth is, by that point, we were both earning significantly above what we were spending, and so it was just a question of maybe taking a tiny temporary hit in what we were saving, but we were living so far below our means that it wasn't a question of constraining any spending because of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners who are getting such a very strong message, many of us, about having those multiple income streams, having those side hustles? There's downsides to it.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. There potentially are, and I think it's just being aware and intentional about what all of your options are. So if you're in a low level job right now and you want to stick that out, I think it's just paying attention to, is there a point at which having a side hustle is going to be too big a distraction? Is there a point at which it's going to start to hold you back? You know, I really am very pro side hustle, but I think it's just noticing that this may not be forever, or there might be stages in my life when I need to focus on one thing. So that's really I think what I'd advise, is just be smart about it. Just keep your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
And side hustles don't have to be forever.

Tanja Hester:
Absolutely not. They can be a great chapter of your life. I think of the decade when I taught yoga as a really special thing, but that doesn't mean I still have to be teaching it now.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's move on to your everyday money tip. This has to do with health care, actually.

Tanja Hester:
It's a better time to be early retired with healthcare than it used to be. Before the Affordable Care Act, people who didn't have a traditional job, and that could be freelancers and side hustlers and gig economy folks too, but we didn't necessarily have good ways to get it. Now with the Affordable Care Act, you can buy insurance, but for most of us that is not going to include dental or vision, and so a great way to save some money if you especially love international travel anyway, is when you're traveling, to schedule a dental cleaning, or schedule an eye exam, or do some of the predictable medical stuff that you know you can schedule when you're abroad.

Tanja Hester:
I think as Americans we tend to think of the rest of the world as not having high quality care, but that's just really not true. You can do a lot of the stuff for pennies on the dollar compared to what we pay here when you're already taking a trip, and if you're older and you need something like a hip replacement, it's worth pricing out what it would cost in a place like Thailand or India versus at home. Often, even if you have insurance, the total cost out of pocket in another country will be less than what you'd pay after copays and everything here.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's been your experience? Have you done it?

Tanja Hester:
You know what? I have not yet. We just haven't had the opportunity because we're only a year into early retirement, but for the book I interviewed a bunch of people who had and really heard nothing but positive experiences.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll have to look into that. Alright. I want to talk more about your book Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny Pinching Way, because it really draws from your experience. You mentioned FIRE, which stands for "financial independence, retire early." Is that correct?

Tanja Hester:
That is correct.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, your blog also won best FIRE blog I think the previous year, so you're an all star on all levels, but there's a lot of things that I like about the book, and one of them was, as a parent myself, that you also address the challenges that parents face when they have this goal of FIRE.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I did not want the book to be, "Here is the story of how Mark and I did this." I think that's pretty boring. We also recognize that a lot of our circumstances are not applicable to everyone or easy to replicate. We got really lucky in some key ways. We didn't have huge student debt. As you just said, we don't have kids, so I wanted to make this a book that was accessible to just about anybody, so I included a lot of case studies with parents. In fact, most of the people featured in the book have children, because I just felt that was so important to cover. Some people are couples who are earning under six figures combined, some single folks, so it's really trying to cover the bases.

Tanja Hester:
But yeah, I'm a huge believer that you can build a plan that works for you and you can, even if full retirement isn't an option, you can at least create a life where work is more optional, whether that's being able to cut back or take a year off or just work in a job that's fun for you as a part-time thing. I really do believe that it's accessible and so that's really what I set out to do with the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that really stood out to me in the book is a data point that you bring up, and that is that most people, we talk about the idea of choosing to retire early, but the truth is, data shows that most people don't actually even retire when they plan, so we think this is a choice, but really a lot of us just have to be ready whether we like it or not.

Tanja Hester:
Oh, it's so true. I feel really strongly about this because I get frustrated when there are new stories about early retirement that sort of go like, "Hey, look at these young weirdos." Because I think the discussion about early retirement should be inclusive of everyone, because as you said, that's just reality. We know that most Americans intend to work to 66 or 67, but end up having to retire at 62 or 63 on average. Although for many workers it's a lot younger, because companies are generally pretty cruel to those over 50. They lay people off without really much regard for how it's going to affect them, and so a ton of us, two-thirds are not retiring when we plan, and we also know that more than half of Americans are wholly reliant on Social Security as their only retirement income, which the very highest social security checks only give people about $30,000 a year.

Tanja Hester:
So we're talking about a real crisis and a real problem that just being able to put yourself in a position where you can retire securely is already enormous, and if you can put yourself in a position to be able to retire even sooner, all the better, because we just don't know what the future holds for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. All right. Everyone needs to check out Work Optional. Tanja, before I let you go, please tell us more about where people can follow you, your blogs, your podcasts, your books, all of you. There's so much happening in your retirement, Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
I know, I know and I know there are those who will say I'm not retired, but this is all stuff that I'm choosing to do that feels like play, and I feel lucky every day. My main site is ournextlife.com. From there you can find everything else. The podcast is The Fairer Cents, C-E-N-T-S on iTunes and all the podcast places. On social, I'm @Our_NextLife, mostly Twitter and Instagram, but from Our Next Life, you can kind of find all the different tentacles I have out there, get info on the book. The book is in all the normal book places, so yeah. It's a fun, fun thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, be clear about its purpose. For Tanja, it no longer was a needed income source. It was fun. She liked it, but it was holding her back. If the point of your side hustle is to build a business so you could leave your job and things are on track, of course you should stick with it, but as we move up in our primary jobs, side hustles can be a distraction, and you could be missing opportunities even just by not being as focused on the main job as you could be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Tanja talked about medical procedures overseas that are planned. Even if you don't plan to have something done, it's a good idea to note if your health care insurance is valid overseas, especially in the case of an emergency. In many cases, insurance will cover an emergency but will only reimburse you once you get home, so you have to pay out of pocket while there, keep the receipts and file afterwards. This actually happened to my family. We were vacationing in Jamaica and my son cut his head after falling getting out of the shower. We had to go to an emergency clinic and pay 100% out of pocket. The insurance company would not promise whether or not they would pay, and in the end they did pay as an out of network expense, but there you have it. By the way, Harry was completely fine. If you are traveling internationally, know what your health care coverage is and make a plan just in case you have to see a doctor while you are traveling.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to all of you, my Financial Grownup friends, for joining us. If you like the podcast, please help us grow, please, by sharing with your friends, and take a moment to leave a review as well. We read every one and they really mean the world to us, and they help us get discovered. Big thanks to Work Optional author Tanja Hester for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we talk about the 3 money tips for living abroad. #LivingAbroadForAYear #LivingAbroadTips

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

At 20-years old, Lauryn Williams CFP® was the fastest woman in America, and suddenly faced some very grownup financial decisions. Lauryn shares how she put together a team of advisors including her coach and an agent, how they vetted different sponsors, and how she learned to get paid to run for a living. 

In Lauryn’s money story you will learn:

-Why one of the fastest women in the world chose to slow down and carefully make her financial decisions

-How much money a three-time Gold medalist really makes 

-What goes into an olympic sponsorship deal

In Lauryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How keeping an open mind prepared Lauryn for the opportunity of a lifetime

-How to cope with money anxiety when making a big financial decision

In Lauryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one person who will always save you money

-How to listen to others talk about finance with a grain of salt

In My Take you will learn:

-The number one question you always need to ask yourself before making a financial decision

-Why Certified Financial Planners need to be your best friend

EPISODE LINKS

Check out Lauryn's website here

Listen to Lauryn's podcast here

Follow Lauryn's company! 

Instagram: @worthwinning

Twitter: @worth_winning

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lauryn Williams:
And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my financial grownup friends. That was fellow Certified Financial Planner, Lauryn Williams. Her company, by the way, is called Worth Winning. She also just happens to be a three-time Olympic medalist, the first American woman to medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympic Games. Lauryn was a track star and then just kind of decided to get into the bobsledding thing, because why not, and of course she won a medal there to. By the way, she's a four-time Olympian. And Lauryn not only is a CFP, she is an MBA, she has an MBA in Finance. Talk about a role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
So welcome, everyone. So glad you are investing the time. And for those of you that are new to the Financial Grownup podcast, we try to keep it short, about 15 minutes, because we know how busy you are. But if you have a little more time, feel free to stack a few episodes together. Let's get right to Lauryn, I met her through our mutual friend, Jamila Souffrant, of the Journey to Launch podcast at Podcast Movement, where else, this past summer. And immediately I adored her, I know that you will too. In addition to all of the accomplishments that I just mentioned, and many more, she's just the coolest and most lovely person, and also a fellow dog lover. Here is Lauryn Williams.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauryn Williams, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Lauryn Williams:
It's so good to be on. Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so excited to have you because not only are you a four-time Olympian, the first woman to earn a medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympics, you get the biggest gold star from me because you're an actual CFP, Certified Financial Planner. So, so great to have you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
It is really good to be on the show. I'm looking forward to telling my financial story today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do want to just mention, you also are a financial professional, you are the real deal. Your company, Worth Winning.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. I started a company to be able to help young professionals, people specifically in their 20s and 30s, organize their finances because I felt like there was such a big gap there. During my career as a professional athlete I had some advisors that didn't do a good job for me, and it was mainly because they didn't get what I needed at that age. So my company is specific to helping young professionals organize their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we'll give all the information for that. And by the way, your podcast, Worth Listening, after your money story. But we want to get to this because this is really a unique perspective into the world of a money-savvy athlete. Because when you were in college, just 20 years old, you won a very big, big race and that brought you to a big financial milestone in your life. Tell us your money story, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, so I was a junior in college at the University of Miami, having a blast. Made it to nationals my freshman and my sophomore year, but didn't have success. So on my junior year, I was on a tear. What do I need to do to win this national championship, I wanted to be the fastest girl in all of college. And I did, I achieved that. I ran the fastest time that day, won the race. It also happened to be the second fastest time in the world, for the whole year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just happened to be.

Lauryn Williams:
Just happened to be. And it was 2004, the Olympic year. So immediately I had to turn my focus from this one goal that I had of wining college nationals to, oh my goodness, America is counting on me to go to the Olympic trials a month from now and win that thing and represent Team USA.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, there was a money element to this.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So immediately after running that time I started to be approached by agents and they started approaching mostly through my coach. She was kind of the middle woman and she just had to sit me down and say, "Lauryn, as much as I'd like you to stay in college, I think it's going to be more lucrative for you to leave school. And the first part of that process if for you to get an agent."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. What happened was you were being approached by a bunch of companies who wanted to sponsor you.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So, with track and field, the shoe companies are usually the main way that we earn a means of income. So it's not a situation where you earn a W3 employment somewhere with Team USA and then you get this as extra. If you don't have a sponsorship, you don't have an income and you're not really a professional athlete. That was the main thing, so I had to decide which shoe company I wanted to go with, which contract was going to be the best. And the agent helped a lot with putting in the restrictions and the bonuses and making sure everything was really good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So let's take a step back. You finish the race, what happens then? Does a shoe company just call your mom? How do they first get in touch with you? Break down exactly what happens and, if you feel comfortable, who was approaching you and how they value an athlete early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the shoe companies are there at the meet, they're walking by you, they're shaking your hand, telling you good luck, we'd love to talk to you. And you don't have any long conversations in that moment, you just have kind of shorter ones. And then, like I said, my coach was very protective, made sure that first step is to get an agent, find someone that you trust, and let those shoe companies go through the agent instead of you having to talk to them directly. Because they're trying to woo you and tell you all these great things, but really it's going to come down to what's on that pen and paper and whether or not we should sign that. So we've got to get someone that's a professional, that knows about these contracts, in order to get the information we need. So that was the first step in the process really.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your coach guided you in choosing an agent. And what was that conversation like? Were you just swarmed by agents? How did you vet the agents?

Lauryn Williams:
I had to make a list of questions. I had to find out what I was looking for, what do I need from being a professional athlete, what can I expect from you? Because I'm 20 years old, I'm not even legally a grownup grownup yet. I'm going to need your guidance but I also know that I'm hiring you and you're going to make a living from this. So what can I expect from the money that you'll be paid to provide this service to me? And in track and field, an agent takes 15% of whatever they get for you, and that's a pretty hefty chunk of change. It's not 1% or 2% like it is in the other professional sports, so you'd better make sure that it's somebody that you trust and that's going to be making the best earnings for you so that they too, in turn, can earn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, is that true? So in track and field they take 15%, what sports do they take only 1% or 2%? That seems really low.

Lauryn Williams:
Pretty much the big three sports. So the Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, NFL. All of those have much lower percentages, but they also have much higher earnings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fascinating.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, our income fluctuates quite a bit in track and field. And so, for me, I was at around $200,000 as a 20-year-old. Like you said, fastest woman in the world in 2004. With, like I said, different bonuses and prize bonuses, if I ran a certain time I could get a bonus, if I won the Olympics I'd get an increase in salary. All those different sorts of things had to be negotiated.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So let's back it up a little. So you get the agent, then what happens? Did you just get a pile of offers and you just picked one? How did it work? Were there other factors? Was it just money? What kinds of things were you seeing, as a 20-year-old just getting these first money offers?

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the agent comes to me kind of with a summary of here's what Adidas is offering, here's the salary, here's the bonus structure, and here's the ... You know, he was just going with the main things. Of course, you know, the final contract is 20 or something pages long, but the initial part is just here's a summary of what it is. And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so you went with Nike. What were the factors that made that the winner for that first sponsorship endorsement deal?

Lauryn Williams:
Ultimately it was, like you said, the schooling was one of the big keys for me. Because, like you said, education was not optional. So for them being willing to support me, one, financially with a really good salary, then also pay for my education, they had a really good prize and bonus structure that if I did in fact run fast I would be compensated accordingly, which I thought was very fair. Every year that I won, I got a nice rollover or a nice salary increase. It was the most lucrative of the different contracts that were offered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me what was your feeling when you signed that first contract. Did you have a new sense of financial security when you signed with Nike, at age 20, for $200,000?

Lauryn Williams:
As a finance major, I think my biggest feeling when I signed that contract was anxiety. It's like you've been given a really cool opportunity, don't blow it. And so the first thing I wanted to do was go and find a financial professional to help me, because I knew even though I was a finance major that I didn't have what it took just yet to be able to organize such a large amount of money that I'd never seen before, no one in my family seen before. It was excitement but mostly anxiety.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners from your story? From signing that first big contract at age 20?

Lauryn Williams:
I would say the takeaway is you never know when something really awesome is going to happen, when that windfall is right around the corner, but it's really about being prepared all the time. When opportunity knocks, be ready to answer the door and be prepared to take life at whatever it is, because it can immediately change. And my life changed overnight, I was a broke college student to hundred-thousandaire. Literally overnight.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. All right, let's get your everyday money tip, because this also relates back to those early experiences and some good habits that you learned early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I would say everyday money tip, make sure you have questions for whatever it is that you're going through in life. Whether it's hiring a financial professional, an accountant, an agent, when you're talking to your friends, ask questions. It's so important to be pulling information out of others as opposed to just taking the information as being fed to you. I found frequently during my career that people would give me information and they were only giving me the information they wanted me to have, and that ended up being catastrophic in a lot of different situations. So really having the ability to ask questions, look for red flags, and educate yourself in all aspects of life is the most important everyday money tip that I think your listeners need to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Tell us a little bit more about your business now. So you did have some tough experiences with financial advisors and you've talked about that widely, that really helped pivot your career when you moved away from full-time being a professional athlete into being a full-time financial advisor.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I just had to find a way to fill the gap. Like you said, there was so many basic things, from budgeting, to understanding first-time home purchase. I needed help with just those basic things and I realized that as young professionals, there's a gap in the industry. There's these big wealth managers that require you have at least a million dollars before you can get help and then there's these other guys that sell you crappy products. And I was like we deserve something better, we deserve just unbiased advice that could help us build wealth, sort through our student loans situation, sort through the financial basics so that we can get on the right track. And that's how Worth Winning was born.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what inspired you to become a CFP and not just a financial advisor? Because you don't have to be a CFP to do this.

Lauryn Williams:
You don't have to be a CFP but I feel like it's the standard. I wouldn't go to someone who said, "I read medical books all the time, so certainly I can perform this surgery on you." Yeah, you may be really smart, but I'm going to go with a doctor that's actually been to medical school. And CFP to me is the same sort of standard, where you've gone through rigorous education, you've gotten a certain amount of experience, you've taken a hard, hard, hard exam, and you're held to a level of ethics that is not what the whole industry is held to right now. So it was really important to me to be able to put that seal of approval and that stamp on, to be able to say I'm competent to serve people and do my best job for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find out more about your and Worth Winning, and Worth Listening, your podcast?

Lauryn Williams:
Yes. Worth Winning is worth-winning.com and the podcast is worth-listening.com. And you can get to Worth Listening by going to Worth Winning, so I'd love to have you go and check out my website and see if something there rings true with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social channels, you have a great following, by the way.

Lauryn Williams:
Oh, thank you. @worthwinning on Instagram, @worth_winning on Twitter. And then if you're looking for me, Lauryn Williams the Olympian, you can do lauryncwilliams on Instagram, Twitter, and you can find me on Facebook as well, by typing in either of those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love Lauryn's story, because it's such a different world. I mean, can you imagine being a star athlete and being offered hundreds of thousand dollar contracts when you're 20 years old, out of the blue, and all the responsibility that comes with it? I love the fact that she came out so strong and then it became such a great foundation for building her Worth Wining financial advisory business, and her Worth Listening podcast, which everyone should check out. Lauryn is a wonderful role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Lauryn talked about asking a lot of questions and having your list. Okay, I want everyone listening to always have one question at the top of that list, no matter what you are buying, financial services or otherwise, how do you get paid? It's very important to know, is someone being paid a flat fee or are they being paid on commission. Now, there's no right or wrong answer, as long as you're comfortable with the answer. Generally, it's nice for financial services to go to somebody who's not being paid on commission because you know that they're seeling you, in theory they should be selling you, what is best for your needs. If it's commission-based, they may be selling you what gives them the best commission and you never really know.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's important to know how they're being paid. But remember, this is the financial services industry. In many other industries the general rule is that commissions are often the preferable way to be paid. For example, think about travel. Very often someone that helps you set up a trip is getting a commission and most people are okay with it being paid that way, as opposed to paying them a separate fee, although it can be done that way as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. You may have noticed that I was fawning all over the fact that Lauryn is a Certified Financial Planner. It is a big deal. When you give your money to someone, you need to know that they are qualified, that you can trust them. And I can tell you, that as a Certified Financial Planner myself, we are what is called fiduciaries. And that means that we have to work with you to find whatever solution is in your best interest, not just what is suitable. Fiduciary, big word, very important word, but pay attention to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you have a financial question, a money question, or just a question about what goes on behind the scenes here at Fin aical Grownup that you want answered on one of our bonus episodes, we are taking listener questions. So just DM it to us on any of the social channels. On Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can also just email it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That's hellow@financialgrownup.com. And thank you to Lauryn Williams for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Fearless financial independence was a lesson superstar entrepreneur and Kabbage Co-founder and COO Kathryn Petralia learned early on from her parents. Now she is using those skills to not only build her company but to instill strong family and financial values in her own kids. 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn:

-How her parent's divorce impacted the way she understood money

-Not to dwell on past mistakes

-Her philosophy on financial independence

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she's teaching her children financial literacy

-A quick lesson in small business loans and how to get them

In Kathryn’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The open secret about getting discounts on AirBNB

-Examples where she used the technique to rent homes for less than AirBNB

Bobbi and Kathryn also talk about:

Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017
AirBNB

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Kathryn!!

Instagram @Kabbageinc

Twitter @KabbageInc

Learn more about Kabbage at https://www.kabbage.com/ 

Learn more about how to teach your kids financial literacy here:

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/articles/2017-04-04/how-to-raise-financially-literate-kids 

---

Transcription

Kathryn:
We went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled. And she started to cry and she was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. We all have memories of childhood that stay with us forever. As you heard with our remarkable guest who you'll get to know, Kabbage co-founder, Kathryn Petralia. In her case, literally her mom, crying over spilled milk; Kathryn never wanted to be in that position and one might argue that that moment, that defining moment and the realization that came from it, was her financial grownup moment.

Bobbi:
Welcome to all of you. So glad you can spend the time with us. We value that time so we keep the Podcast short; about 15 minutes. But if you have more time, feel free to binge. And if you like it, please share with a friend and don't forget to subscribe. New thing I learned recently: take a screenshot, share it on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. The show is free and if you feel it's giving you value, share it with someone that you think would enjoy it as well. Let's get to Kathryn's story. Stay to the end, by the way. Her everyday money tip is going to save you hundreds of dollars, if not more, on your next vacation. I'm serious. This is a really good one. Here is Kathryn Petralia.

Bobbi:
Hey, Kathryn Petralia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the Podcast!

Kathryn:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi:
Congratulations on all the success of your venture, Kabbage. Tell us a little more about it.

Kathryn:
Kabbage is a data and technology platform that enables realtime lending to small businesses. We've deployed over five billion dollars to 150 000 small businesses in the United States.

Bobbi:
Wow. And by the way, just so our listeners know, you're a big deal. You were named recently in the Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017, along with some peers like Oprah and Sheryl Sandberg, so congratulations on that.

Kathryn:
Oh, thanks a lot. I was really shocked by that, frankly. I'm super honored to be part of that crowd.

Bobbi:
Well, I think as more people get to know you and all that you've accomplished, I think people will not be at all surprised. And on that note, I wanna hear your money story because it has to do with your childhood and the framework that set you up to have this drive to make sure that you were successful in business and in your family as well. Tell us your story.

Kathryn:
Well, when I was about six years old my parents had recently divorced and my mom was struggling to make ends meet because she was getting her PhD and didn't wanna take alimony or child support that the court didn't order; this was in 1976, so that was a thing back then. And so things were really tight for her financially and we went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled and she started to cry. She was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk. That just had a really big impact on me, you know, at that time and I've remembered that story for many years. What's funny is my mom doesn't remember it anymore.

Bobbi:
Oh my goodness! It's so interesting always looking back the things that make an impact on a child and it just becomes part of the everyday fabric of life for adults. What else do you remember about that period of time in your life, in terms of your mom and what was going on with her? Did you guys have discussions about it? Did that incident open up any kind of dialogue about money? Or was she always trying to put on a brave face? Because it sounds like she was a really strong woman.

Kathryn:
Well, you know, she was always very transparent with me about everything, so it's not like she tried to hide it from me. She certainly didn't want me to be stressed about money, so it wasn't like she was saying to me, "Oh, we only have $14 this week," or whatever. But if I asked for something, she was really honest about, "Well, we can't really afford that now. Maybe we can do that later." I've lived with both my parents, so back and forth, so I had these two totally different experiences.

Bobbi:
Oh tell me more about that.

Kathryn:
Well my father's an attorney, and so he had obviously more money. He had a job; he wasn't working part-time. And so I was able to get things that I wanted and needed from my father and I was able to protect my mom from those requests, I think ... I learned a little bit about protecting my parents back then.

Bobbi:
Yeah. It sounds like you were taking on a lot of financial ... I don't know if it's decisions, but you were certainly thinking about money at an early age.

Kathryn:
Absolutely.

Bobbi:
Can you expand on that?

Kathryn:
I guess I just knew that there were different ways that people lived. So if I had only been in my dad's house all the time, then I think it was really useful to me to understand that not everybody has everything they want and some people really have to struggle to get by just to pay their rent and just to buy groceries. And I think that was a valuable lesson for me.

Bobbi:
Interesting. If you were able to see two ... You basically grew up almost in two different socio-economic levels in that you had to see both sides of the story.

Kathryn:
That's exactly right. But not forever. I mean, my mom got her PhD and married a professor and so I think everything was a lot more the same by the time I was 11 or 12. But certainly there was a period of time where things were different.

Bobbi:
Tell me more about your day-to-day life then with your mom and your dad, how it differed financially.

Kathryn:
I could ask my dad for things or I could ask to go out to eat or I could ask for a toy. I really didn't ask for a lot of stuff, anyway. But with my mom I was more careful and I knew that it would be a treat to go to Dairy Queen and get a Dilly Bar, which is like the D since back then. She wanted that too, so I picked the things that she could treat me to so that she would feel good to.

Bobbi:
Looking back, it's interesting because in many divorce cases you hear that one party wouldn't pay the other one, or something was going on, but your mother, it sounds like proactively did not wanna take child support or alimony. What's your sense ... Is that something you've ever talked to her about? Because it certainly would've made a lot of those times easier.

Kathryn:
Well, from her perspective it was her decision to leave the marriage and so from her perspective he didn't owe her any of that. In fact, the court actually wouldn't let my father not pay her, so she gave him the money back and she paid income taxes on it, I mean, because she's just a very stand-up kind of person, I guess. And she wanted to make her own way and she didn't feel like it needed to be his problem. So I think I've picked up on some of those tendencies from her, too. But thing's were different in the '70s.

Bobbi:
In what way did you pick up on those tendencies?

Kathryn:
Just to not expect things from people. To know that I have to make my own way and to not rely on other people to get what I need.

Bobbi:
You've always been fiercely independent it sounds like, at least certainly in terms of your financial drive and your ... You've got a lot of ... Like, look at what you've accomplished. You've done a lot and you're still pretty young.

Kathryn:
I don't feel that way now, but I mean ... I could tell you that my knees hurt when I stand up, when I get off the floor with the baby. But you think the independence is driving. I think it does drive me maybe to do more than I would otherwise and to not take something from someone and to try to get it myself. But sometimes that works against you, so if I really need for something, like this weekend my husband's gonna be out of town and he's at home with our two kids and I really would make my life easier if I had somebody come and watch our baby for a couple of hours so I could do something with the older child. But I'm probably not gonna do that. I'm probably gonna just try to get it all done myself and nobody's gonna have a great experience because I'm not asking for help, so I think there's a downside to that, too.

Bobbi:
I think we've all been there. So tell me, what's the lesson for our listeners from this? Because there's a lot of takeaways. It's very interesting and I really appreciate you sharing this with us.

Kathryn:
Well, I think because I went through some financial uncertainty as a child, it means that I know that people can get out of it. So I've never really been afraid of financial instability because I know that it's possible to make it through. I got married really young, right out of college, and my husband and I moved to Atlanta. We didn't have jobs or even prospects for jobs. I wasn't worried about it at all. We just figured it out, we got some jobs; I think I learned that from my mom. My husband's been a stay-at-home parent for 18 years since our 18 year old was born, and so you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that too to be the only one working.

Kathryn:
It's a little different as a woman, especially 18 years ago, being a stay-at-home dad wasn't a thing as much back then as it is now. But when we started Kabbage 10 years ago, we went without any income at all for a year and for way less income than we'd had for a long time for a couple years after that. And kudos to my husband for sticking it out, but I wanted to make sure ... One thing I wanted to be really careful about was that our eight year old at the time didn't feel any kind of stress from that. He knew what was going on and he knew that things were a little bit different around the house, but he wasn't worried that he wasn't gonna be able to eat dinner that night. And it was important for me to protect him from that.

Bobbi:
When you look back, do you feel like you're protecting him in reaction to the fact that you were not as protected as a child.

Kathryn:
What I've done is we have that same level of transparency that my mom had with me, and really my dad, too, frankly, about finances. So he knew exactly where things stood, but if we were worried about anything like were we gonna have enough money to pay for his college; we didn't talk about those things with him, if that makes sense.

Bobbi:
Right. You're not worrying him about big-picture stuff but you're talking about the day-to-day stuff.

Kathryn:
Right. And even since then, he had ... I got him a checking account when he was 10 and he's had his own debit card. So he buys his own toiletries today with the money that we give him so that he's having to make decisions about what to buy. That's also been important to us.

Bobbi:
Which is good, because you're making him into a financial grownup, which is amazing!

Kathryn:
I would tell you: sometimes I think he doesn't make very good decisions, but he'll learn.

Bobbi:
Look: I always say at the end of every episode, "We're getting closer." Because it's always a process. Right? We're never fully grown up.

Bobbi:
So I wanna hear your everyday money tip, because this was one. We were talking beforehand coming up with one and you came up with this and it's brilliant. I've never heard this before. Go for it.

Kathryn:
Well, my husband loves to travel. Vacations are important for him. But we couldn't do that for a couple of years while we were starting Kabbage. AirBNB was just becoming popular I would say, maybe what, seven or eight years ago. But what we've learned in the last couple of years is that when you find a listing that you really like on AirBNB, sometimes you can figure out that it's actually managed by a property management company and they have other properties as well. And you can find their website you can save a ton of money by going directly to the property managers as opposed to going through AirBNB, and my apologies to AirBNB for telling you this hack.

Bobbi:
Well, they'll understand. Because also it brings you to AirBNB to even check it out to begin with; I think they'll be okay. Do you have any example? Do you remember any trip that you took where you did this?

Kathryn:
I have one I'm just about take where I did this!

Bobbi:
Awesome!

Kathryn:
I gotta travel to California for work and my husband and baby are coming with me and so he found a property and I noticed that it said it was offered by a particular company. We went directly to the site and saved like $600.

Bobbi:
Wow. That's awesome. $600 on how much? On a week or something?

Kathryn:
Five days.

Bobbi:
Awesome. Alright. You're definitely the money expert here. I wanna hear more about Kabbage, because it seems like you're disrupting an area that was really needing to ... It's sort of an open niche between the small businesses needs that ... It's like bigger than a personal loan, but not quite a full medium sized business loan. Tell us more about what Kabbage does and what's unique about it that's so disruptive and that's getting so much attention. And frankly I've been reading some really large numbers in terms of valuation, Kathryn. I know you haven't disclosed all of them but there's a B in front of some of these numbers, my friends.

Kathryn:
There is a B.

Bobbi:
B as in billion.

Kathryn:
US dollars. So, yeah, we've certainly grown a lot. And I think we've been the fortunate beneficiaries of access to realtime data. Our business couldn't have existed 10 years ago the way it does today because the data wasn't available for us to give our customers the experience that we give them. We can actually ... A small business owner who comes to our site can get through the entire application and have actual money in their account in less than 10 minutes. The average is like seven or eight minutes.

Bobbi:
Wow.

Kathryn:
So businesses need capital, but they also need time. Small business owners are running all over the place. They're managing their families, they're managing their businesses, they're doing all kinds of financial things that they probably weren't trained to do and maybe even don't like doing. And so we try to make this as painless as possible for them and really transparent so you're not wondering for days and weeks and months, are they really gonna get that loan and what did that loan officer think.

Kathryn:
That's a big part of the challenge today is that most small business loans are a very manual, time-consuming process. So businesses looking for less than a quarter of a million dollars from a bank? The banks have a hard time doing that cost effectively, so they generally don't even make those loans. And I think that's really the reason our business is able to exist because we could cost-effectively using technology and automation. We can cost-effectively serve those small businesses.

Bobbi:
How did you first come up with this idea?

Kathryn:
My co-founder Rob had the idea because he was working with another company that was using a recently launched Ebay API. They gave third parties access to seller and transaction level data. All the data was authorized. You know, the customer's authorize Ebay or QuickBooks or can't even process where to share the data with us, so they know that we're getting it. But he thought, "Wow. Wouldn't it be interesting to use that data to make a small business lending decision about that business that sells on Ebay?"

Kathryn:
And my background was in FinTech, which wasn't called that then, but that's what it was. So he called me up and said, "Hey, what do you think about this idea?" We had worked together previously and I thought, "Wow, that's really cool." I love that you could use data in that way and consumer lending's been automated since the '90s. But the small business funders hadn't already picked up on that, apparently. We didn't really realize that.

Bobbi:
So it's an underserved market?

Kathryn:
Absolutely. It was an underserved market and it remains underserved. It wasn't because of the financial crisis that it was underserved, but it's always been that way.

Bobbi:
Well I'm glad that you are now helping out in that area. Tell us where people can learn more about you and about Kabbage.

Kathryn:
I'm not a huge social media person. I have the best Twitter handle ever that I don't use well and that's Kabbage; @Kabbage. And you can find out more about Kabbage at www.Kabbage.com and it's Kabbage with K. Although, if you use Cabbage with a C, then you'll find us there, too. We originally named it Kabbage with a K because it was cheaper to get that domain. It was like $1200 as opposed to $75 000 for Cabbage with C. But-

Bobbi:
Oh, wow.

Kathryn:
... we got the Cabbage with the C recently a lot cheaper, so we're excited now we have both. And you can find out more about me on LinkedIn; you can connect with me there. I'm not a huge social media user, but you can always find me on LinkedIn.

Bobbi:
Awesome. Thank you so much!

Kathryn:
Thank you!

Bobbi:
Hey friends. Here is my take on what Kathryn had to say. Financial grownup tip number one: don't be too hard on yourself. Kathryn remembers dropping the milk and her mom crying so vividly. But her mom didn't even remember it. Move forward, don't dwell on past mistakes. Financial grownup tip number two: educating your kids about money doesn't mean you have to tell them everything. It's more than okay to protect them from the scary stuff before they need to know or if it's not age-appropriate. Even if they may never need to know the details of your financial life, it doesn't have to be transparent. Kids can learn about money without knowing everything going on with your family finances. You can just say no to a request for something without saying that you can't afford it. You can just say, "We're not buying it."

Bobbi:
Alright my friends. I am curious. What money lessons did your parents teach you growing up that you remember? Connect with my on social and DM me your thoughts. In Instagram, I am @Bobbirebell1, on Twitter @Bobbirebell, and on Facebook, @Bobbirebell. Learn more about the show at www.bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And the show notes are at www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/kathrynpetralia. And while you're there, sign up for the newsletter. And thanks to Kathryn for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Startup guru Courtney Reum credits family dinners and the lessons served with helping to create the foundation of his business success. Along with his brother, he has not only built and sold his own venture (Veev) and written a best seller “Shortcut Your Startup”, but is now also mentoring and supporting a new generation of entrepreneurs and brands. 

 

In Courtney’s money  story you will learn:

-The importance of family dinners in forming Courtney’s values

-The financial values Courtney and his brother learned from their parents

-Courtney’s confession about his teenage self

-How it helped Courtney learn about financial priorities and resource allocation

-Why Courtney references Jane Fonda and Jazzercise when talking about nutrition

-Courtney’s love of Sushi on Sundays

In Courtney’s money lesson you will learn:

-How his parents shared meals in order to stretch their dinners out budget

-The one key thing Courtney’s dad did when the bill came that can save you money

-Advice on how to figure out the right amount to tip when eating out

-The importance of sticking to old fashioned values even though technology dominates

-Little known facts about how phone numbers were created

In Courtney’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Courtney’s advice about carrying cash in a digital world

-Why $100 is the magic number for his emergency stash when traveling

Bobbi and Courtney also talk about

-How M13 began after the brothers sold Veev

-Why Courtney believes we are living in the golden age of creating brands

-Courtney’s angel investments and his take on consumer tech brands

-Why he believes all brands need to be media and tech companies

-What the M13 playbook is and how it works

-Courtney’s book with his brother, “Shortcut your Startup” 

-The importance of realizing “Time is the new Money"

In My Take you will learn

-How eating together as a family has been shown to increase the odds of success for kids

-Why checking the bill at restaurants often leads to corrections- in your favor

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Courtney!!

Instagram @CourtneyReum And his insta with his brother Carter @ReumBrothers

Twitter @courtneyreum @M13company

Linkedin Courtney Reum

 

Learn more about M13 at m13.co

 

Read Courtney’s book “Shortcut your Startup” !

 

Learn more about the spirits brand they built and sold: Veev !

 

Learn more about the companies Courtney and M13.co are working with:

Classpass

Lyft

Casper

Kevita

Pinterest

Bonobos

Warby Parker

 

Learn more about the success that comes from eating together as a family:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/12/the-most-important-thing-you-can-do-with-your-kids-eat-dinner-with-them/?utm_term=.94cf3514f57c

 

---

Transcription

Courtney Reum:
They certainly tried to show us and explain that there's some nutrition here. Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was Courtney Reum talking about family dinners growing up, and this is on family. They eat together generally seven nights a week, and while, as you will hear in his story, it wasn't about the food, the food did provide a largely unspoken lesson about money allocation and priorities. I'm really excited to share this story, I think we're all going to find something that we can relate to here and put to work in our own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, first a quick welcome. We keep things short here, around 15 minutes. Flex time for our busy listeners because you can listen to one episode or you can listen to a few if you have more time. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already, so you won't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure when you do so, to go into settings and set you the auto-download. That way you never have to think about it again. If you have a free moment after that, leave a review. We see every one of them, we really appreciate it, and it is the best way for other people to hear about the show and for us to grow. Speaking of that, of course you can also tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Courtney. There is something in this episode for everyone. Courtney Reum is not as famous as he should be, or as he will be. Pay attention to this guy, and his brother by the way, who's also his business partner, Carter. After stints at Goldman Sachs and success creating and then selling their popular spirits company, VeeV, the brothers are now helping nurture other success stories with their company M13. It's a disruptive brand development studio and venture capital firm. Their portfolio incudes investments in some names you may or may not have heard of, like Lyft, ClassPass, Pinterest, Bonobos, Warby Parker and more.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, in their spare time, they wrote a book for anyone who wants to rev up their brand, Shortcut Your Startup. Courtney also drops some random facts I never knew, and I bet you didn't either, so play close attention, here is Courtney Reum.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney Reum, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Courtney Reum:
Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you. Not only are you, and your brother I should say, the inventors of Veev, which a lot of people are fans of, you now have a new company which we'll talk more extensively about after your money story, but M13, which is a brand development company, you have investments in a lot of really cool companies, from ClassPass, to Casper, to Lyft. Tell us just briefly about it. What is M13? M13 has a really cool origin, the name right?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. Well we wanted to have that mysterious MI6 kind of I don't know what they do, but it must be something cool sound to it. But the literal name, M13, is the brightest cluster of starts in the galaxy, whereby the sum of the whole shines greater than the individual parts. It's this idea of connecting the dots and pitting the pieces together, which is what we're really endeavoring to with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. I should mention you also have a book.

Courtney Reum:
We do. What we're trying to do right now with M13 is build a company for building companies, so we're starting some of our own, we're working with other companies, and so we have a, I guess I'd call it a venture capital arm and then a brand development studio, and we're really trying to institutionalize the platform or the machinery of how you create brands. We decided to try to codify that and write a book called Shortcut Your Startup, that is a lot of the principals and things we're doing, because we believe it's the new age of creating consumer brands and things like that, so we wanted to share what we've learned and then hopefully continue to improve on it with what we're doing with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. You also learned a lot from your parents growing up. I know your father unfortunately passed away a little more than a year ago, but there were a lot of lessons around the dinner table, about saving and splurging. Tell us your money story Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
I think one of my most vivid memories growing up is that my family was really big on the lost art of having family dinner, probably almost until the time we got to high school, we probably did it seven days a week just about, and even through high school, probably four or five, which I think is almost unheard of. But what stands out to me is my parents, who were very frugal even when they didn't have to be, but always very value oriented, we would probably, four nights a week, eat some kind of Stouffer's, Lean Cuisine, AKA TV dinner. The only real choice for the night would be are we going to have spaghetti tonight or are we going to have chicken and vegetables? Whatever it may be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your mom wasn't cooking spaghetti from scratch, these were heat-up meals for $5, $10, whatever they were going for at that time.

Courtney Reum:
Right, because I remember being teenager, and I was always a little bit of a smart you know what, and my mom would say, "Okay, I'm going to cook dinner," I'm like, "You call that cooking?" She's like, "You know what I mean, just pick which one you want." I think my family's a bunch of type A busy bees, people on the go, but we would have TV dinners three or four nights a weeks, and then Sunday would always be the day where my parents would say, "All right, we're going to go out for a nice dinner. Where do you guys want to go?" Nine out of 10 times, growing up in Chicago in the 90s we'll say, it would be sushi, and despite what people may think now, sushi was super exotic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Courtney Reum:
And rare back then, to the point that not one friend of mine ate sushi. My friends in high school, like on the football team and stuff, when I would walk somewhere with a cut roll of sushi, they would take it out and throw it back and forth like it was an egg toss because they were so wowed by what the heck sushi was. Anyways-

Bobbi Rebell:
And it was expensive.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, and it was expensive. We certainly grew up having every opportunity, but having said that, I could not have gone out for sushi four nights a week, so it was a great lesson in all right, I'm going to have a TV dinner tonight, not realizing how some of those nitrates and processing and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was a different time. Give your parents a break. We didn't know at the time. Now we're all eating clean.

Courtney Reum:
Yes, exactly, but I definitely was able to scoff down a few of those dinners, knowing that Sunday was around the corner and we were going to have our favorite sushi dinners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did your parents ever talk to you about the financial decisions behind that?

Courtney Reum:
My parents didn't explicitly talk about it, but they certainly tried to show us and explain that, "Hey, we don't have time, nor can we go out for sushi every night, but this is still a really good meal. There's some nutrition here." Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway? How can people apply this lesson of saving and then splurging to their own lives?

Courtney Reum:
My parents are both highly disciplined people, and I would like to think that has trickled down to us. Even to keep it with food, since it's such a bonding occasion, my parents loved to tell stories of living in New York City right after they graduated college, and they would go out to dinner once a week because they felt like it was important to do right when they were newly weds, but they couldn't afford to really go out to dinner, so they would share one appetizer, one entree, one dessert and one coffee. The fact that they had the discipline to still find a way to enjoy and make the most of whatever they could do, but they had the discipline to realize we can't go out for a full-blown meal all the time, and that made a big impression on me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the most memorable financial lesson your dad taught you?

Courtney Reum:
My dad checked every bill from every restaurant. Whether we spent $7 or $70, he would check every bill. Still to this day, I do that, and I'm shocked how often there's a mistake on the bill, and most people, if you don't really check it closely, they don't catch it. They're like oh, they threw another drink on there, and maybe you don't care, but you might as well at least know. My dad would always joke, "It's funny how the restaurant very rarely makes an error in your favor." He just taught me to really dot your Ts and cross your Is, and my dad was one of those guys who could do incredible math in his head. None of this stuff where you just take the amount of the check and double it to do the tip or something like that, he would calculate whatever number was in his mind, 16%, 17%, without tax because he didn't believe you tipped on tax back then, and just do it in his head and write it down. Just having a facility with numbers and being in the details was something I really took from him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He didn't have apps that would split things up and calculate everything for him.

Courtney Reum:
No calculators on his phone because there was and phones. He was like a human calculator, at least up to maybe two or three digits.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what's the takeaway from that?

Courtney Reum:
I think there is that old fashioned way to do things, and we've got to make sure [inaudible 00:09:20] where we don't lose it in the world of talk to text or voice or you name it, because I always say to people, "Do you know why telephone numbers are seven digits, not including area code? Because seven digits is roughly the amount of digits that can stay in you short-term memory, depending on how you define that, 30 seconds to a minute, this can stay in your memory and you can remember it. Back in the day when phone numbers were created, you really needed to remember that thing, or even if you wrote to down, and so it was important that it stayed in your short-term memory." Now think how few numbers we actually know off the top of our head, so we have to make sure we just don't lose those skills.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Speaking of skills, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because we were joking before we started taping, that you are ... I can't even keep track Courtney. I know you got off an overnight, but then it was delayed and you were on the tarmac. You travel a lot and you don't use a lot of cash, but cash is important in terms of this one everyday money tip that you're going to share.

Courtney Reum:
Yes. I always keep an emergency $100 bill, just for a rainy day, in my briefcase. My briefcase is more of a tech Tumi backpack, but I always keep it in there, try to always replenish it when I use it, and as silly as it sounds, obviously it takes up no room and there are so many times where I'm some place, I'm like, "I have no money," I'm like, "Wait. The emergency 100." I would encourage people, whether it's an emergency 20 or 50 or 100, whatever it is, always hide it from yourself so you don't use it too often, but then always have it available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, and something we all should definitely do. All right, let's talk a little bit more about M13. Where are you taking this company? Because this was basically formed after you sold Viiv, what's happening with it next and what should we look forward to hearing about?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, as I alluded to, I think our whole thing when we sold Viiv, was we had started and operated some companies, we had been on the boards of a bunch of other companies and thankfully been successful. For example, there's a probiotic and kombucha line called KeVita, that Pepsi bought a couple of years ago. Basically, all consumer tech companies, we probably made, at that time, maybe three dozen angel investments, and we said, "You know," we tried to step back and do the proverbial lift your head up, see where the world's going, and we thought yeah, of course we could, we had plenty of ideas, we could start a new company, try to make it successful, sell it or not sell it.

Courtney Reum:
But we really think we're living in this golden age of creating brands, again, we focus on consumer tech brands, and by that I mean consumer brands that tend to be techable, so that can be anything like direct to consumer online brand, or even something like a Lyft that we're big investors in, or Pinterest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Give us some more examples. Yeah, drop some names.

Courtney Reum:
Drop some names, okay. Let's see. Right now I'm wearing Bonobos pants, Warby Parker glasses, some of the mattress companies, so it's all things that we basically believe that every consumer brand needs to be saying to themselves, "How can it more of a media and tech company?" Because what's really changed is that this is the golden age of creating brands. I saw a funny meme the other day that was like I want to create a brand and someone says, "How should I do it?2 he goes, "Oh, it's really easy. You just get someone to give you a name, a logo, and then you make it in China and you sell some ads on Instagram." It obviously a joke, but there's some truth to it.

Courtney Reum:
What we're trying to do is institutionalize the process of brand building. Obviously nothing is one size fits all, but there are things that I get asked every single day like, "Hey, do you know a good digital marketing agency? Do you know someone who does that?" Rather than do the analog way of replying to every one of those, or thinking about who I know or who did I come across that week, we have actually taken all of our learnings and put it into what we call our M13 playbook, which is literally a digital repository of all our best practices and best resources. That's contacts, that distribution strategies, that's broker partners, those are relationships, and have actually put it in a format that we believe if we do this well, will help brands start faster, more time efficiently. Our book is all about time is the new money, so it's about trying to launch brands at scale so we can do it in a repeatable way and launch brands more quickly and more often than we previously would have been able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and Shortcut Your Startup, which is your book, and all your social channels. I know you're a little bit shy about being too promotional on social, but people can at least see pictures of your adorable mom on your social right?

Courtney Reum:
Right, exactly. If nothing else, please read the first page of my book because it's dedicated to my dad, and please look at my social media to find my mom. My Instagram is really easy, it's just my first name and last, @courtneyreum. If you find another one of those, I would be shocked, so it should be easy to find me there. M13.co, not .com, .co because it's more trendy now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, is it? Okay.

Courtney Reum:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I learn so much from you Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. I don't do a ton with LinkedIn, but I think I've gotten about three or four requests since we've been sitting here, so that's the world we're living in, and our book, shortcutyourstartup.com, there's a website, and then of course, since the whole world is on Amazon Prime, you can certainly find us there too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney, I'm so excited to see how much more you accomplish. You're so impressive. Congratulations on everything.

Courtney Reum:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Courtney's money story and what he had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. We focused primarily on the fact that Courtney's parents did spend a lot of time preparing or money on everyday meals, and left that to the once a week sushi splurge, but Courtney also said something very important, and that is that they ate together as a family pretty much every night. Research has shown that leads to high achievement in kids, specifically dinnertime conversation boosts vocabulary for young kids, and for school-age kids, regular mealtime is a powerful predictor of high achievement scores, more so than time spent in school, doing homework, playing sports and doing art.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's even more. Other research found that teenagers who ate family meals five to seven times a week were twice as likely to get As in school as those who ate two or fewer times a week with their families. Full disclosure here, I am aspiring to this, it is not happening yet, so I'm going to put that on my fall to do list. I will leave a link to the research in the show notes. If you want to learn more, you can find those show notes at bobbirebell.com/podcast/courtneyreum. C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y-R-E-U-M.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Courtney talks about checking the bill, and how the mistakes are usually not in your favor. No matter how much money you have, check the bill. I'm not alone in having caught so many things on bills that just should not be there. It happens so much, and as for tipping, I do believe you still aren't expected to tip on the tax, even though tipping expectations have certainly gone up in recent years.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way my friends, did you catch the random knowledge about phone numbers that Courtney shared? Rewind if you need to. I was fascinated. Maybe everyone knows that and I'm the only one. Anyway, Courtney crammed some amazing wisdom into this episode, raising the bar for my future guests, just saying. Keep an eye on this guy, and thanks Courtney, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move. 

In Brian’s money story you will learn:

-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money

-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations

-The financial and social reality of academic life

-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends

-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career

-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career

-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job

In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:

-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change

-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right

-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward

In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How giving money can create contentment

-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier

-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you. 

In My Take you will learn:

-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose

-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values

Brian and Bobbi also talk about:

-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"

-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment

-How his book cuts through jargon

-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing

Episode Links

Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com

Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth

Follow Brian!

Twitter @brianportnoy

LinkedIn Brian Portnoy

 

---

Transcription

Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.

Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.

Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.

Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.

Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.

Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?

Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?

Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?

Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.

Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.

Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?

Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.

Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.

Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.

Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?

Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.

Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Perez Hilton pioneered blogging as a profession, starting with his first $5 payday from Google Adsense. The once-bankrupt Hilton has built a multi-media business on that foundation, moving into YouTube, television and his latest venture, a guest stint at Chippendales in Vegas. 

In Perez’ money story you will learn:

-How Perez first earned money as a blogger, and the size of his first payment

-How he promoted his wesite perezhilton.com when it first started, well before social media existed

-How he realized he could make money blogging

-The big life failure that happened that led to his ability to focus on and monetize his blog

-The turning point in his career as a blogger when he was able to help his family

-What Perez tells his kids about his job

-Perez’s daily schedule and how he maintains productivity

-Why Perez wakes up at 5:51 every morning

-What was Perez’s biggest payday, and how much he has made in one day

-Why he is so excited talking about Lady Gaga!!

In Perez’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big warning he has to new business owners about the pace of growth

-Why he warns startup founders not to invest all their own money in their business when they can get investors

In Perez’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to negotiate better rates with the people that you have been doing business with for years

-How much you can reasonably expect them to discount services

-How to leverage your social media following to get discounts on products

In my take you will learn:

-Why it is important to note that Perez Hilton wakes up everyday at 5:51 am

-The significance of his regular, reliable schedule, especially as an entrepreneur and a parent

-How he is putting time management Laura Vanderkam’s strategies to work. 

-The importance of building out a brand in an intentional and focused way

-How Perez is integrating new platforms to expand his audience from his core platform

-The video on Perez’s personal youtube channel that I am personally completely fascinated by and why. 

Perez and Bobbi also talk about:

-How he has had to re-think his finances since having three kids

-Why Perez believes in diversifying financial assets, but also focuses on real estate

-The kinds of real estate Perez believes will be the best investments and why

-Where Perez is invested right now

Episode Links:

Check out Perez’s block perezhilton.com

Subscribe to Perez’ youtube channels

His personal channel The Perez Hilton

His regular content channel Perez Hilton

Here is more info about Perez’s Chippendales show in Las Vegas!

You may also be interested in Time Management expert Laura Vanderkam’s interview. You can listen to it at bobbirebell.com/podcast/lauravanderkam

 

Follow Perez!

On Twitter: https://twitter.com/PerezHilton

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perezhilton

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePerezHilton/

 

Listen to Perez’s podcast with Chris Booker:  http://perezhiltonpodcast.com/

Want to learn more about Perez? Check out his interview with Michael Dinich

---

Transcription

Perez Hilton:
I'll get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event it was 4th of July, I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest, so my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was gossip blogging pioneer Perez Hilton dishing on some of his own finances and getting very candid about how much and how little other headliners really make. Perez has talked in public pretty candidly about some of his financial let's say adventures, including declaring bankruptcy and spending several hundred thousand dollars on surrogacy for his three kids. Go to his YouTube channel The Perez Hilton to hear more about that. His gossip YouTube channel is Perez Hilton, but I wanted to know more. After all, love him or hate him the guy started making money from blogging before it was a thing. And if you look at some of the ways we use social media now, like even the doodling people do on pictures and all that stuff he was doing it way ahead of us. He's made mistakes, which we talk about, but now that he's gotten older and wiser with three kids and a team that works with him, which includes by the way his mom, and his sister Perez Hilton is all about being a financial grownup. Here is Perez Hilton.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Perez Hilton you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Perez Hilton:
Hello, I try to be. Actually I don't even try, I am. It takes work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You very much are. Oh, come on. Yeah anyone who watches you have two YouTube channels, you have your fun gossipy one and then you have your also fun personal one. And people that watch that they know you talk about your bankruptcy, you talk about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on surrogacy and the financial implications of that. So you are definitely, you're a grownup Perez.

Perez Hilton:
Well not even that, you know last year at the beginning of 2017 when I knew I was having a third child and that was coming it was a huge push for me to completely re haul my financial life. Meaning, overtly looking at every possible way to spend less and make more. And shorter term goals are definitely to diversify, it's a key word especially given how everything changes so quickly in entertainment, and just the world. For me though, and I may have still been at this before but I'm still trying to make it happen. And I wish I would have heard this before, I wish I would have made it a priority younger, I really want to get into real estate. Like some people want to play the stock market, some people want to invest in startups, some people want to start new businesses, some people want to let their money sit in a savings account, I want to go old school and own land. Own property. Not commercial property, I specifically want to own like a duplex or a triplex or four plex because I think that, that will only go up and it will only win.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you keep your assets now? Do you own your home? Do you have some stocks? Are you diversified? Because if you do everything in real estate you're not diversified and we just heard you want to be diversified.

Perez Hilton:
Yeah, no I mean I have a retirement account and I have different thing for my kid's college. I'm making all of the smart moves but instead of going heavier in the stock market, which I was advised to ... I did not listen to that advice and I'm going to go more into real estate. If I keep most of my money in real estate I don't care. I don't mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
We talked before we started taping about the first time you were able to actually monetize blogging, because you were basically the first. You were blogging before there was social media. You were blogging you were just trying to promote it on something called Friendster, which most of my listeners probably never even heard of. When did you realize you could monetize this and what was the first memory you have of receiving money for blogging?

Perez Hilton:
Well I didn't make any money for the first year plus. It was really just a hobby. Thankfully I ended up getting fired from a job that I had during that first year of blogging, which I credit to my website becoming successful. Because as a result of getting fired during that first year I was able to collect unemployment. So I didn't have to worry about feeding myself and having enough to pay rent. Thank God that happened. Sometimes a negative really is a positive. So, when I finally started making money to pay rent ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So a lot of bloggers today they make money from ads, from affiliate links, things like that. How was the first way that you made money?

Perez Hilton:
The first way that I made money, of course Google Ad Sense, was probably less than $5 but I was like, "Wow this is something exciting."

Bobbi Rebell:
$5 for something you were doing as just a fun little side thing is money, right?

Perez Hilton:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a pivotal moment where you realized, "This is actually my ..." It's not your whole career because you do a lot more, you first of all you went to NYU, you studied acting you did a lot and you do a lot. This doesn't just come from nowhere, and I think you make it look easy but it's not as easy as you make it look. But when did you realize that this in terms of your general identity was going to be it and that there was a way to monetize this? I mean reports are you've made many millions.

Perez Hilton:
I would say that by 2007 things got to a point where I was able to and I needed to get help. And I was able to help my family by doing so. I hired my mom and my sister with me and really made it a family operation. So, I moved them from Miami to Los Angeles and they still work with me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And how do you think you'll explain to your kids how you earn a living? Or will it just be kind of organic as they grow up?

Perez Hilton:
Well they already understand who Perez Hilton is. They've seen me on TV many times, the many different things I've done. They've been on TV with me. Last year I did a show for the Food Network called Worst Cooks in America Celebrity Edition, which I ended up winning by the way. I was the best of the worst. They got to be part of the show and they watched it every week with me. I do a lot of talking head commentary whenever I'm on like The Talk, or The Real, or local news here in LA. My mom will always record it and make sure my kids see it. Plus I make all my YouTube videos, they're in the background hearing daddy work and seeing me work as well on my laptop on my website. So they definitely have an understanding. They know I work so hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well tell me about that. Do you have a schedule or do you just keep going until it gets done? How does it work?

Perez Hilton:
I just keep going until it gets done, but I wake up at 5:51 every morning. I literally start working before I even get out of bed, before I even pickup my laptop I'm able to get some work done on my phone on Instagram. It's like you have to be doing everything everywhere. And I'll work, work, work. Then I'll take my kids to school, then I'll go to gym. Then I'll come back, catch up on work, do more work. Then I'll usually have a meeting or a filming or something in the afternoon. Come back home, catch up on work, spend early evening in dad mode. Put my kids to bed after getting them their shower and all that jazz, read their nightly book. And then get more work done, catch up on emails, and then usually get to bed like 11:30 maybe. I still love what I do, 14 years later. And I'm filled with so much gratitude that I am continuing to have fun and entertain people, and get new followers through different ways. Yeah, like even in a couple of days I'm heading to Las Vegas. I'm going to be doing the Chip 'n Dale show there.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wild.

Perez Hilton:
That's so exciting. I'm going to be the special celebrity host of Chip 'n Dales.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you remember your biggest payday? What can you tell us about it and most of all how it made you feel?

Perez Hilton:
I remember like 2006 - 2012 before the rise of the DJ, which is where Vegas is now. It's all about the big name DJ's. You used to have a ton of celebrities hosting club nights in Vegas. And they would just throw ridiculous amounts of money my way and everybody's way. Now you'll have celebrities host Vegas, but because I know the market so well now, and I have so many friends that work in nightlife they're paying for the Vanderpump Rule for a housewife or whomever, five maybe $10,000. If you're a celebrity like Drake or somebody of that stature they'll make tons of money, but TV personalities five to $10,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let me ask you, how much would you make in those days in Vegas? And what was it like?

Perez Hilton:
Yeah. Well it depends on the venue, and the time of year, and a whole bunch of variables but I would say I would get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event I had back in 2008 it was 4th of July weekend, and I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest. So my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the lessons, the business lessons that you've learned from going from making $5 from Google Ad Sense, to Vegas at $50,000 doing DJ stuff, to now where you've got this multi-media empire that you are growing and building to invest in real estate as we know it for your kids?

Perez Hilton:
One advice I would give somebody is don't grow too much too quickly, which is a big mistake that many companies make. I would also say ... and a lot of this is just my experience, my advice, it probably maybe goes against what traditional business people might say. I would also say if you start making a lot of money on your business do not invest it back into your business or invest some but not a lot. Ideally to grow you can grow with other people's money. That's the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, that's something a lot of people do. They leverage other people's money. Maybe put some of your own skin in the game, but it's also important to have some money set aside personally for you.

Perez Hilton:
Absofreakinglutely. Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. All right Perez, I don't want to keep you too long. Give me an everyday money tip.

Perez Hilton:
One simple thing people that you do business with regularly, maybe your pool cleaner, or trainer at the gym, or for me I get my meals delivered from this one company. So I reached out to a lot of these people I've been very loyal to for a long time and I'm like, "Can we work anything out? Can you charge me less if I promote more?" Even if you don't have a large social media following, if you've been loyal to a company for a long time and been paying them they'll probably say, "Sure we can give you five percent off, 10% off." Any savings anywhere is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, where can we support you? You're heading to Vegas, I just watched your video today, you're packing everyone up. Tell us about that and everything else that you want us to be paying attention to.

Perez Hilton:
Well I am a busy dude, yeah I'm going to Vegas. I'll be staring in the Chip 'n Dales show at the Rio from July 26th through Labor Day Sunday. I've got two YouTube channels, The Perez Hilton for everything family and then Perez Hilton for everything pop culture. Of course my website. And then I've got a podcast, The Perez Hilton podcast with Chris Booker where we talk everything pop culture.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is an empire. Congratulations on it all. Thank you for doing this.

Perez Hilton:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Perez is a lot of fun my friends, and he kind of makes it look easy if you watch his content. But let's look at what is really going on with this business, and it is business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, note that Perez casually mentions that he always wakes up at 5:51 in the morning, and that he does work before his kids get up. Getting up early is a common thread of successful self starter entrepreneur, in fact according to time management expert Laura Vanderkam who was a recent guest on this podcast the vast majority of successful executives wake up before 6:00 am on weekdays. So, go set your alarm clock and try it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, I love that Perez is always trying new things, but at the same time they are things that make sense with the brand that he has created. Perez still has his blog for sure and has expanded to different vertices, but he also knows that YouTube is very important to his audience as well. And so, he is growing there. One channel that extends his traditional gossip content, but he also now wants his audience to know him as a person. And he does very candid personal videos including a strangely amazing video by the way of how he brushes his teeth and keeps them so white. Watch it, you'll find yourself watching till the end, it's mesmerizing. Silly but mesmerizing. And now he's starting the Chip 'n Dales thing in Las Vegas, so this man is fearless but it is all on brand and all designed to appeal to his audience. Perez is consistent with his content and keeps his audience engaged.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this show please tell a friend. The best way for us to grow and keep bringing you these great stories is by sharing. You are busy but if you have time please leave a review and hit subscribe, and keep in touch on social media. We love it when you DM us on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. And a big thanks to Perez Hilton who's having a great time in his very grownup life, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media Production.

Carol Roth’s father left a priceless gift when he passed. Now, she is using that to help others map out their plans for everything from their social media accounts, to their cryptocurrency and bitcoin assets, using her innovative FutureFile system. 

 

In Carol’s money story you will learn:

-How losing close members of her family and loved ones impacted her outlook on life, and on finances

-How she got a credit card at the age of 10!

-Why her dad was so concerned about preparing his children for his eventual death

-How her dad created a filing system and what it included

In Carol’s money lesson you will learn: 

-How Carol and her siblings used the file her dad created

-Exactly how much money it saved her and her family, both in actual money but also in the time they did not have to spend on estate related issues

-The mental relief the family had because of the system their dad had put in place

In Carol’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Carol believes no one should own depreciating assets

-How we can enjoy things like private jets without having to own them (JK)

-What kinds of investments we should be making instead of in things like cars and boats and planes

-The best use of our transportation dollars

Carol also talks about her business Futurefile.com

-Why she created it

-What it contains including not just places for wills and basic estate planning but also places to put cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin, and how to manage social media

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of making a plan, any plan, for when you are ill or pass away

-My experience knowing my mom’s wishes when she passed

-My take on whether you should own a car, and why I don’t fully agree with Carol

-Alternatives ways to save money if you do choose to have a car

 

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about Carol Roth at https://www.carolroth.com/

Learn more about FutureFile at FutureFile.com

 

Follow Carol!!

Twitter @Caroljsroth

Facebook CarolJSRoth

 

Carol recommended not buying a private plane and instead using

NETJETS.com

More about Carol!

Carol Roth is the creator of the Future File® legacy planning system, “recovering” investment banker, billion-dollar dealmaker, investor, entrepreneur, business advisor, national media personality and author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Entrepreneur Equation.

Carol “plays herself on TV” weekly, having been a reality TV show judge (Mark Burnett’s America’s Greatest Makers on TBS), media contributor to outlets ranging from CNBC to Fox Business, and host of Microsoft’s Office Small Business Academy. She’s recognized internationally as a business expert and has worked with startups to the biggest companies and brands in the world on everything from strategy to content creation and marketing to billions of dollars in capital raising and transactional work.

Carol is dedicated to helping families prepare for and save time, cost and grief that comes with aging, medical issues and passing life events through her Future File products. She is a also former public company director and is a noted small business advocate. She invests in early and mid-stage companies as well.

Carol counts among her “accomplishments” having an action figure made in her own likeness, getting a standing ovation from Richard Branson and having the NFL follow her on Twitter.

 

---

Transcription

Carol Roth:
He was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that. I would have spent the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was business expert, Carol Roth. She is author of the bestseller, "The Entrepreneur Equation." You may have also caught her as a judge on the reality TV show, "America's Greatest Makers" on TBS. She's also seen a lot on TV: CNBC, Fox Business. You probably caught her. Her latest venture is called Future File. It's an idea that grew out of her own personal experiences with losing loved ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to Carol's interview, a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we try to keep the shows short to match your busy life. But if you're traveling, commuting and have more time, feel free to binge. You can learn more about Financial Grownup at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast where you can also sign up for our newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Carol because this interview was a real wake-up call for me on a lot of things that I just don't want to deal with, but Carol is a force to be reckoned with. Here is Carol Roth. Hey, Carol Roth, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Carol Roth:
Bobbi, it is so great to be here and to be all grown up with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you. It is a process for all of us, let me tell you. Many people already know you but, for those who don't, you are a big personality on TV. You are an author of the bestselling book "The Entrepreneur Equation," and you also have a business which is really an important business. We're going to talk about it a little bit more in-depth later in the show. But, it also ties into your money story because your money story led to it. Tell us your money story, Carol Roth.

Carol Roth:
This started when I was a senior in college. So I'm mourning the loss of somebody I had been in a relationship for a year and a half. I go off. I start my career, and my mom was diagnosed with leukemia. A year after that she passed, the day after her 51st birthday. So then I'm mourning these two losses. Then my stepmother, a few years later, is diagnosed with lung cancer, and she passes away at age 55. So at this point in time, my father, who despite not having a formal education, was very financially savvy. My dad was a union electrician. It was amazing. He couldn't spell banana. He spelled it bana, but he was the type of guy, he opened up a credit card for me somewhere around age 10 to establish my credit history.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. You got a credit card at age 10? First of all, they let you have that?

Carol Roth:
They did. Back in the day with a cosigner, as long as he co-signed on it, they didn't care, right? After we endure all these losses he says, “If something were to happen to me, and you and your sister have been through this now multiple times, if something were to happen to me, you guys wouldn't necessarily be prepared. So I'm gonna help you prepare.” Dad kept giving us pieces of paper, and the pieces of paper were, "I don't want you to spend this much money on a casket, I just want this. I don't want you to have two services. I just want a graveside service. Here's my insurance policy for this, and here's my wishes on this." Every time he'd give us a piece of paper, he'd say, "Stick it in the file."

Carol Roth:
So we had this running joke that we had this death file. We go okay, dad, whatever. We just continually collected information. As I said, my dad wasn't formally educated. So, low and behold, five years ago in May, my sister calls me on the phone and is like, "Carol, you know that file that dad has? Grab it and meet me at the hospital. He has been in a freak accident."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. This is just a paper file. This is not in any kind of cloud storage, on the computer, nothing?

Carol Roth:
No, this is literally a hard copy, accordion file folder with backs of envelopes, paper plates, envelopes, policies, wishes, this kind of amalgamation of information. Oh, and also keys, we had keys to his car, keys to security-

Bobbi Rebell:
So he made copies of the keys for everything?

Carol Roth:
Yes, everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Carol Roth:
Copies of everything, hard copies. So I literally, physically grabbed this file, Bobbi, and I run to the hospital. He had been in this horrible accident, and he was completely out of it, bleeding on the brain. They said, "Do you want us to operate?" We went through, said, "Okay, what does Dad say about this? Okay, Dad says that yes, he wants you to operate." So they went ahead and operated. When he came out, he just never recovered. He was just basically brain dead and being kept alive by machines. So we pull out the piece of paper, including the power-of-attorney that said that we have the authorization to make these decisions. Then we pull out the wishes that Dad had. Dad had said if we've gone through a relevant number of tests and we've gotten a few opinions and everybody's come to the same conclusion that the machines are keeping him alive, to pull the plug. We followed Dad's instructions, and obviously he did not make it. Then we had to go through laying the body to rest within a few days, all of the services and wrapping up his personal affairs.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the lessons for our listeners from your story?

Carol Roth:
The benefits that we got that you can get if you preplan is that we saved a lifetime of burden, which is priceless. I don't have to walk around shouldering did I make the right decision in this particular scenario? Should I have gotten another opinion? Because my dad had talked through it, he had written it down, I knew what his wishes were, You can't put a financial price on that. That is priceless.

Carol Roth:
The second thing, from a financial standpoint, is we saved more than 10000 tangible dollars, Bobbi. I'm not even joking. End-of-life costs, what people don't realize, are so incredibly expensive. Average just funeral and burial is $8500. Cremation with a funeral service is close to $7000. So just by going through this, we saved more than $10000, and then the five figures that we did end up spending on all of these sort of end-of-life things, he had put end-of-life insurance in place. So it's something that we didn't have to come up with that money or go into his estate and try and figure that out. So there's a tangible dollar savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the money that you did not spend? Did you not have a funeral that he didn't want? What money did you save because of knowing his wishes?

Carol Roth:
So we saved money on the casket. If you go with a Cadillac of caskets, it could be 6500. It could be $9500. You can get one at Costco for $600. So he was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that, I would have spent the money. So he told us not to do that. He told us to only have a graveside service. So instead of going into the funeral home and having the whole spiel there and then moving everybody to graveside and having a second spiel there, he didn't want that. He said just do the graveside. He didn't want flowers. He didn't want accoutrements. He didn't want programs.

Carol Roth:
Then I'm Jewish, so we do something called sitting shiva, which is similar to sort of visitation in the Christian religion. For that, he said, "Go to our clubhouse. Do it just the day of. Just have this and that and the other thing." By the instructions that he put out, we saved money there. So when we added it all up, it was well into the five figures. Then, as I said, we ended up spending five figures on stuff on top of that, but just the five figures of savings was incredible.

Carol Roth:
Then the other cost that is an indirect cost but was so incredibly valuable is he saved me hundreds of hours of time. If you look at how much I make in an hour, that's tangibly multiple six figures. So 200 at least, maybe 300, hours in trying to track down all of his accounts, all of his policies, making sure that we had everything, trying to find things like that safety deposit box key, making sure that he didn't have a treasure hunt for us somewhere where there was money hidden that we didn't know about. That's real money. I know people don't think of it that way. Sometimes people don't think of their time as money, but there is a true, tangible money cost associated with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You also brought with you a money tip. Awkwardly switching topics, but this has to do with depreciating assets, not investing in things that are going to go down in value.

Carol Roth:
Right. So basically, if it drives, floats or flies, you don't want to own it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So I shouldn't aspire to get my private jet?

Carol Roth:
No, buy a NetJet card because when you have an asset, something that quote, unquote "invest in," that decreases in value every time you use it, that's not the kind of investment that you want to be making. But if you have a car and you're living in the city or you're living somewhere else and you don't drive that often, or maybe you're a multiple car household and you have an extra car that you really can do without, sell it. Because the amount of money that you have tied up in that car plus ongoing maintenance plus the cost of gas plus the cost of insurance, you have to license it every year, and some places you have to pay for parking, it's a huge amount of wasted money. We have so many options for transportation now. You have these on-demand services like Uber and Lyft. Obviously, taxis are becoming more competitive because of that. If you do need to go somewhere for a couple of days, you have rental car agencies that will actually deliver the car to you.

Carol Roth:
So if you go through and you write down how much it's going to cost you to take those couple of Ubers and maybe to rent the car a couple of times a year and you add all that up versus how much money that you're spending invested in that car and all of these other maintenance items and you compare the two, I guarantee you there will be no comparison.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I do want to talk about your latest project because it came from these experiences with loved ones. It's called Future File, and it's genius. So please tell us a little bit about it.

Carol Roth:
When we told people our story, the feedback was so often, "I need to do that for my parents or grandparents." Or "I need to do that for my spouse." Or "I need to do that for myself. I don't know what's going on in the household." Or "We've got kids." So we took this prototype that our dad created for us, and we created a full kit called Future File at futurefile.com. It's basically a roadmap that walks you through everything you need to organize all of your wishes and information for either aging, passing or other family emergencies. So if somebody has a stroke or your house is burning down or whatever it is, it's one location that literally has access to everything you could possibly need. It helps you organize your wills and your powers-of-attorney. Also, your social media wishes, the budgeting that we talked about for long-term care, aging care, end of life. Even a place to put your cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. I know because you could have that, and then no one can get to it.

Carol Roth:
Well, that's the thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
They have to know.

Carol Roth:
Literally, it's not like a bank account that eventually, after hours and hours and hours and showing death certificates and going through probate, that you can access. If somebody doesn't have those keys, it's lost forever. So we didn't want to create any barriers to people doing this, so there's no subscription model. It's one-time. It's just under a hundred bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow, that's it? That's amazing.

Carol Roth:
Yeah, if you listen to the story and you understand those burdens, it makes sense. So do it. Prepare yourself, prepare your family, and you'll help us give that gift that our father gave to us to you and your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and Future File?

Carol Roth:
Yes. So Future File, go to futurefile.com. Tons of information there. The best place to find me, especially if you have a little bit of an odd and off-color sense of humor, is on Twitter at caroljsroth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you, Carol.

Carol Roth:
Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So that was pretty heavy stuff but important to hear. I personally would prefer to just live in denial, but if we're going to be grownups, it's going to catch up to us sooner or later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. I think Carol did a great job getting her point across. No plan is actually a burden on your survivors. So make a plan. Include traditional assets, but also, if you can, leave instructions for the less tangible things. Try to envision the kind of decisions that will be made if you would pass or if you were very ill. If you don't want to decide for them, empower them to make the decision that they think is best without worrying about what you would think. When my mom passed, she was very specific about a few things for my dad and for me and for my siblings, and that gave us all comfort and the freedom to know she was okay with our choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Carol talked a lot about getting rid of cars. So here's the thing. She may be right financially, but let's face it, for some people, it's just part of their lifestyle. It's like asking someone whose only joy is that latte to give up their latte. They need to cut something different. You can find a workaround. So in this case, maybe cut expenses that are related to the car or the asset that is depreciating. One option, renegotiate your insurance. Shop around. Consolidating your insurance can also be a way to lower the cost. Also, if you park in a garage, maybe you can park on the street. Can you renegotiate the garage fee? Is there a tax break associated with the garage if you are resident? We get that here in New York City. If you park at work, can your company reimburse or subsidize the parking? For those of us who have private jets, for example, we know fuel is getting more expensive. One way to pare back costs ... okay, I was just kidding about the whole private jet thing. Anyway, moving on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. Hit subscribe if you can, and we'd love reviews and feedback. So thank you in advance if you can squeeze that into your day. Let's all try to find time soon to make a future file. Thank you, Carol Roth, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Tom Corley grew up in financial turmoil but after studying the wealthy was able to copy their habits and make his money dreams into a reality. 

In Tom’s money story you will learn:

-How Tom’s childhood money disappointments created poor money habits in his early adulthood

-The specific things Tom’s parents did that created financial instability for Tom and his siblings

-Why his graduation party was cancelled because of his parents’ financial troubles

-How he was unable buy a car and to rent an apartment as a young adult again, because of his parents financial needs

-The emotional component of his financial challenges early in his life

-How a client inspired him to do the research that became “Rich Habits"

In Tom’s money lesson you will learn:

-The impact of your parents money habits on your own money habits

-The importance of avoiding “want spending" driven by envy

-How you can change those habits

-Why changing only two or three habits can change your life

-Tom’s habit that he does every day on his way to work to re-inforce gratitude

In Tom’s every day money tip

-Why successful people keep track of other people’s birthdays

-How calling them on their birthday makes a meaningful impact

-Why to avoid the birthday wish on social media

-The connection between the Happy Birthday habit and why it will help you prosper through genuine friendships

 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to move past parents who have poor money habits

-The advice Tony Robbins offers to people who get a rough start in life, as he did

-How my new friend Ramit Sethi uses birthdays as a way to connect with friends and get "Birthday Wisdom"

Episode Links:

Tom’s website: www.richhabits.net

Follow Tom!

Twitter: @RichHabits

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thomas.c.corley.3

Learn more about Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor

 

Get Tom’s books including "Rich Habits, Poor Habits" and "Change Your Habits, Change Your Life” and “Rich Kids"

 

Tom is also writing a book called “The Other Side of Cancer”. Learn more about the Ashely Lauren Foundation which helps families struggling with pediatric cancer. 

 

Also mentioned in the episode:

Tony Robbins

David Bach

Ramit Sethi

 

More about Tom Corley: 

CBS Nightly News Interview: http://richhabits.net/cbs-news-rich-habits-interview-with-lisa-hughes/

Dave Ramsey Interview:http://richhabits.net/dave-ramsey-rich-habits-tom-corley/ 

SUCCESS Magazine Interviews: http://shar.es/1HKwDe      http://shar.es/1HK95w

USA Today Article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/02/22/credit-dotcom-credit-card-habits/23545023/ 

 

Tom Corley is an internationally recognized authority on habits and wealth creation.

Tom has spoken alongside Richard Branson, Robin Sharma, Dr. Daniel Amen and many other notable speakers.

In Tom’s five-year study of the rich and poor he identified over 300 daily habits that separated the “haves” from the “have nots.” Tom is s bestselling author and award winning author. His books include: Rich Habits, Rich Kids and Change Your Habits Change Your Life and Rich Habits Poor Habits.

Tom has appeared on or in CBS Evening News, The Dave Ramsey Show, CNN, MSN Money, USA Today, the Huffington Post, Marketplace Money SUCCESS Magazine, Inc. Magazine, Money Magazine, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance Magazine, Fast Company Magazine, Epoca Magazine (Brazil’s largest weekly) and thousands of other media outlets in the U.S. and 25 other countries. Tom is a frequent contributor to Business Insider, CNBC, SUCCESS Magazine and Credit.com.

Tom is also a CPA, CFP and holds a Master’s Degree in Taxation and heads a top financial firm in New Jersey

---

Transcription

Tom Corley:
I told all my friends that I'm having a graduation party, I told them the date, and a couple of weeks before the party date I just let my mother know, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know, I saved $200." That night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my faith on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, if you feel a big knot in your stomach from that clip you just heard from our guest today, I'm right there with you, this was a tough one. But it's also an important story, so I hope you stick with us. Welcome, everyone. As our regular listeners know, while we try to keep the mood light, we also get real here on the Financial Grownup podcast, and we listen and we learn from others' experiences. So my guests are brave and they reveal very personal financial stories sometimes, in the hopes that it will make your lives better, our lives better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tom Corley is the author of a number of bestselling books including Rich Habits, and it was inspired by his devastating childhood experiences, but also how you can change your habits and have financial freedom. This really goes to the heart of what we try to do here. Here is Tom Corley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tom Corley, you are our financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Tom Corley:
Hi, Bobbi, thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you because you are the author of Rich Habits, and we all need to develop rich habits for sure.

Tom Corley:
Yeah, I spent five years doing research on the daily habits of rich people and poor people, gathered three hundred and forty something data points, and decided to incorporate some of them, the most important keystone habits, into my book Rich Habits, which has become very popular around the world.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're being very modest, it's been a huge bestseller, and you've been on everything from Dave Ramsey to the CBS Evening News, literally you've been all over the place, and I know that the book has helped so many people, so thank you for that. Also I'm going to thank you in advance for sharing what's a very sensitive money story having to do with your upbringing and the poor habits that you learned from your father. Tell us more.

Tom Corley:
Yeah, so I actually have two stories that I'll try and be as concise as possible. So you know, we were rich and then we were poor. My father's business went under when I was aged nine, it's a complicated story, but it was really random bad luck. Anyway, from the age of nine until, I guess, I left the house, we were poor.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you had a big household, by the way.

Tom Corley:
We had 11 in our family, so we were constantly worried. Our home was in foreclosure, as least as far as I can remember, four times. So we were worried about being homeless. I remember I used to shovel snow and mow lawns, and I spent the whole year doing that, saved money, saved $200, because in the 8th grade I wanted to have a graduation party. I told all my friends who I wanted to come that I'm having a graduation party. I told them the date. A couple of weeks before the party date, I just my mother know, just to make sure it was okay, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know. I saved $200." Well, that night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money, because I have bills that I have to pay or they'll shut off my electricity, our phones, or whatever." So I handed him the money.

Tom Corley:
The second story was when I was 23 and I had just been working for about a year. I was still living at home, but I was trying to get ready to leave home. So I saved about $5,000, I wanted to buy a car, and use whatever was left to put down on a rental, an apartment somewhere. Somebody in my family found out about it, and my father approached me a couple of days later and said, "You know, we need that $5,000 to pay our real estate taxes. They're in the process of foreclosing on our house again." So I had to give up that $5,000.

Tom Corley:
So what I learned from those two experiences, which were very emotional experiences to me, was, don't save, if you save, somebody will take it. I was young when I learned those lessons, so they stayed with me in my adult life. And it wasn't until really I did my Rich Habits research that I realized I had this horrific poor habit of not saving, and it was emotion based, which most habits are.

Bobbi Rebell:
What even started the idea of doing Rich Habits research?

Tom Corley:
When I took over my CPA firm here from my predecessor, I had a small business client in the auto body business, he had inherited the business from his father and over the course of 20 years he found himself with cashflow issues. He asked me, "What are your successful clients doing that I'm not doing?" Then he started crying because he couldn't make payroll that week, and basically he was going out of business.

Tom Corley:
So I started doing research, I couldn't find anything other than The Millionaire Next Door, that didn't help me really, it wasn't specific enough. So I said, "You know what? I'm going to do my own research." I interviewed 361 rich people and poor people, find out what the rich do and what the poor do, and I didn't know I was doing a habit study, I just was trying to uncover the truth, why are some people rich and why are some people poor? What I wanted to do, Bobbi, was find out what they did from the minute they put their feet on the floor in the morning to the minute they put their head on the pillow at night. So that's kind of what started me on that research.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you talk to your dad about this at all?

Tom Corley:
No. My dad passed away in 2013, and he was always one of my biggest cheerleaders, but we never really saw eye to eye on a lot of things. I did everything a good son is supposed to do to help my father, and he loved me, you know, we just didn't have that kind of relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
You never talked to him about your feelings when the money was taken from you after saving it?

Tom Corley:
No. I couldn't do that to him. I know, he was older, why burden him with that? I just felt, this is something that I don't ever want him to know about.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway from your story?

Tom Corley:
Well, the takeaway is this: I was able to turn things around, thanks to my Rich Habits research, I started saving, started putting money into my 401(k), and other things. Whether you are aware of it or not, you have certain good habits and bad habits, I call them rich habits and poor habits, that are the result of your upbringing. They primarily are from your parents. So if you are, like I was, not saving any money, and maybe have debt, credit card debt, there's a very good likelihood that that has something to do with your upbringing, and some habits that you forged in your childhood that stayed with you in your adult life. The good news is that I'm evidence you can change your habits, and not only am I evidence, I have 177 self-made millionaires that are proof that once you change your habits, you change your life.

Tom Corley:
So there's light at the end of the tunnel here for anyone, doesn't matter if you're poor or stuck in the middle class. You can change your habits, and it only takes two or three habits to change your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some habits.

Tom Corley:
So many people struggle with savings, right? If you really peel that onion, what's the reason why they just can't save? In many cases, especially in America, it's the keeping up with the Jones's mindset, it's, my friend bought a BMW, or leased a BMW, my other friend, or someone I know, or colleague just got a really nice house. So you supersize your life. I call it want spending. What drives want spending is envy. Envy is a negative emotion. What shuts down the want spending is turning the fuel off for your want spending, which is turning off your envy. How do you do that? You shift your mindset from negative to positive by, instead of being envious, be grateful for what you have.

Tom Corley:
What I do every day, every morning on my commute to work, is, I sit in my car as I'm driving and I say, "What are three things that went right yesterday with my life, that I'm grateful for?" I spend about 10 minutes thinking about it and going over it. It's an amazing thing, Bobbi, but it completely makes you positive. Gratitude is the gateway to positivity, it's a domino effect. So it's not just, "Oh, all of a sudden I have this gratitude, positive mental outlook." You have a completely changed mental outlook, everything, you start seeing the glass half full, you start seeing the good in life, the good in people. It's amazing when you start treating people as valuable instead of finding the flaws and the faults in them, they respond, and next thing you know you've got these powerful relationships with people that you didn't have before, all because of a shift in your mindset.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tom, for your everyday money tip, I think you're going to win the most original, and should I just wish you a happy birthday even though I don't even know when your birthday is, but I just want to say happy birthday.

Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate that. It wasn't long ago, June 12th. The happy birthday call was one of the things that I uncovered that the self-made millionaires did. All you do is just call people, you don't tweet them, you don't Facebook them, no social media interaction here, you're calling them on the phone, just to wish them a happy birthday. The amazing thing is, when you call somebody on their birthday, guess what, you're going to probably be one of three or four phone calls that they receive. Here's the really cool thing, Bobbi, I found, because I've been tracking this since I uncovered it in 2007, 25% of the people that you call on your birthday will reciprocate, so it's called the reciprocal happy birthday call, that really takes your relationship off life support, takes it to another level.

Bobbi Rebell:
And especially, you mentioned, not social media and that kind of thing, taking it in a different medium really differentiates you.

Tom Corley:
Yeah, look, you want to stand out. If you're going to just be saying "happy birthday" on Facebook, you don't stand out, because the herd is doing that. You want to step outside the herd. What do people outside the herd do? They make happy birthday calls. It's going to emotionalize your relationship. Why is that important to making money? Because the people that really help you open doors, they might be on board of directors with you on nonprofits, they might be other successful people, well, these are the people you want to be making the happy birthday calls to, they're going to remember you, it's going to improve your relationship, strengthen it, and now you're going to start to develop friendships with these people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Tell us more about what you're up to this summer and into fall, and where people can learn more about you, Tom.

Tom Corley:
Sure. So I've got a book, Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor, that I'm just about wrapping up. I'm going to be traveling to Vietnam for a couple of speaking engagements. I'm also going to start work on a book called The Other Side of Cancer. So I've got a few things in the pipeline this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
What prompted that, Tom?

Tom Corley:
I'm the president of The Ashley Lauren Foundation. We help families who are struggling with pediatric cancer. So if you found out your child had cancer, we step in to help you financially, emotionally, all different sorts of things. We've bailed people out where they were almost homeless because cancer costs money to fight that fight. We've kept people in their homes just by paying their mortgage and paying their rent. So growing up poor, that means a lot to me, because we didn't really have anybody to help us, so I'm going to write a book and proceeds are going to go to The Ashley Lauren Foundation, and it's going to be an upbeat book about how some of the kids who survived cancer went on to become doctors, lawyers, and other things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, well keep us posted on that, and I'll make sure to have you send me some links that we can put in the show notes, and people can learn more about it. Thank you so much, Tom.

Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, can't thank Tom enough for sharing such a candid and raw story. I truly hope none of you have had to go through that kind of, not just financial devastation, but the toll that it takes on the relationship with your parents and how you view them and how you relate to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: as much as our parents set the foundation for our financial perspectives, if you get a bad deal, like Tom, you can move past it. In addition to Tom's books, there are other resources to check out. As our regulars know, I'm a big fan, for example, of Tony Robbins, who was kind enough to support my book, How To Be a Financial Grownup, by contributing the foreword. Tony is a big believer in owning your own situation. Whatever happened in the past with your parents, in your childhood, whatever, look forward, you're an adult, be a financial grownup, and move past anything your parents may have done that you feel hurt you financially. Almost all our parents are well intentioned and really do try their best. Maybe try to teach them what you learn places like here, and from Tom Horley or from Tony Robbins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: let's talk about those birthday wishes. I recently met Ramit Sethi at a dinner party that he co-hosted with my friend, David [Bock 00:13:50], Episode 1, by the way, guys, if you want to go back. You guys may know Ramit as the author of the book, I Can Teach You To Be Rich. So I follow him now on social media. It was recently Ramit's birthday, and he said that when his friends have birthdays he reaches out, and he asks them to share birthday wisdom with him. So maybe that's something that we can all do when we reach out and call them, as Tom suggested.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. This was an emotional one, but that's okay, it was also honest. If you have not, please hit that subscribe button, and follow us on social media, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Thanks to Tom Corley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.

In Andy’s money story you will learn:

-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan

-The emotional backdrop to that mistake

-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision

-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently

In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:

-The options Andy wish he had considered

-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship

In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research

-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan

-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings

In my take you will learn:

-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!

-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well

-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used

-Resources to get more information about 529 plans

Episode Links

Andy’s website:

Marriagekidsandmoney.com

Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook

Listen to Andy’s podcast! 

Follow Andy!!

Twitter @andyhillmkm

Instagram: @AndyHill 827

Facebook @andyhillMKM

 

Learn more about 529’s: 

Link to the SEC website:

https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html

Link to the FINRA website Saving for College

http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college

College Savings Plans Network

http://www.collegesavings.org/

SAVING FOR COLLEGE

https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan

---

Transcription

Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!

Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."

Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.

Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!

Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?

Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]

Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.

Andy Hill:
Nope.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?

Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?

Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?

Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?

Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."

Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."

Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?

Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?

Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."

Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."

Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.

Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.

Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.

Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.

Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.

Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.

Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.

Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast,  the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.  

In Carrie’s money story you will learn:

-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New  York City!

-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000

-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding

-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”

-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable

-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones

-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!) 

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign

-How to determine the budget

-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals

-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures

-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time

-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value

-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies

In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her big negotiating strategy

-What she means when she says to hit the mute button

-How to use awkwardness to your advantage

-The secret to stalling as a strategy

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies

-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential

-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved. 

 

To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!

 

Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!

 

EPISODE LINKS

Likeable.com

Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!

Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com

Get Carrie’s book Work it!

Follow Carrie!

Twitter @CarrieKerpen

Instagram @CarrieKerpen

Facebook Carrie Kerpen

Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!

---

Transcription

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?

Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.

Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.

Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.

Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.

Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?

Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.

Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.

Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.

Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.

Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?

Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.

Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.

 

Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.

 

In Scott’s money story you will learn:

-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans

-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision

-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how  that impacted their financial wellbeing.

-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt

-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers

-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences

-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it

In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:

-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school

-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition. 

-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.

In Scott’s money tip you will learn:

-How you can get medical school debt forgiven

In My Take you will learn:

-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven

-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness

-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt

 

EPISODE LINKS

• Government website links:

  • www.studentloans.gov

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions

• Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor: 

  • https://thecollegeinvestor.com/578/ways-to-get-student-loan-forgiveness/

• This is the article by Melanie Lockert. 

  • https://studentloanhero.com/featured/the-complete-list-of-student-loan-forgiveness-programs/

• You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!

• You can consolidate your student debt, and get  more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com

 

Follow Scott!

Twitter @radiology911

---

Transcription

Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.

Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?

Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?

Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?

Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?

Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.

Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.

Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?

Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?

Scott Steenburg:
No, no.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?

Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?

Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.

Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.

Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.

Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

---

Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.  

In Kayla’s money story you will learn:

-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior

-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences. 

-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year

-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced

-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account

-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21

-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture

-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource

In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:

-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending

-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques

-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending

In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:

-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions

-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances

-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected

-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA. 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business

-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla. 

Episode links:

kaylasloan.com

Twitter @kaylarsloan

Instagram @kaylarsloan

Facebook @krsloan

Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month

You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com

  

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt

---

Transcription

Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.

Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.

Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.

Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?

Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?

Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?

Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?

Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?

Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.

Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?

Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?

Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.

Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?

Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.

Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and influencer Amanda Abella found out she was underpaid and often overlooked. But when she started playing hardball in negotiations with a really big potential client, she and her agent did not get the response they expected. 

 

In Amanda’s money story you will learn:

-All the things Amanda does to have multiple income streams tied to her own personal brand

-The challenges Amanda faced after graduating from college during the recession

-How her first job laid the groundwork for her current career as an entrepreneur

-How she and her agent planned for their negotiation with a potential client

-The pivotal decision that grew her brand ambassador asking rate almost 7 times over by focusing on her unique skillset

-What is a rate sheet, and what brand ambassadors do for clients

-How Amanda researched what was a new market/line of work for her business

-If Amanda has any regrets or things she would do differently in hindsight

In Amanda’s lesson you will learn:

-How she battles her nerves in high stakes negotiations

-Why the number of social media followers are less important than many people believe

-How to get brand partnerships by knowing what matters most to them

In Amanda’s money tip you will learn:

-How to find out about unpromoted discounts at restaurants and fitness clubs like SoulCycle

-How much you can save by using them, even if they are not advertised

-Amanda’s favorite places to get discounts and freebies

-What Amanda got for free recently at SoulCycle

-Why Amanda keeps getting water bottles

In My Take you will learn:

-How to asses what you bring to the market, to better negotiate higher rates

-What to do if you don’t currently have skills that add value to, and command a premium from, the clients you want to attract

-Tips to be more confident in a negotiation

-How the power poses, recommended by Amy Cuddy can give you an instant confidence boost when you really need it

EPISODE LINKS

Amanda’s website: amandaabella.com

Amanda’s podcast

Amanda’s course on becoming an influencer

Follow Amanda!

Twitter @amandaabella

Instagram- make sure to check out her feed AND stories: @amandaabella

Facebook Amanda Abella

Soulcycle.com where Amanda loves to get free stuff!

Check out Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk!

 

---

Transcription

Speaker 1:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Speaker 2:
We went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't. Not even one peep. Not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you like making money and want to know how to make more and ideally from different sources you are in the right place with our guests. Before we get to her though we've been getting a lot of new listeners so I want to just welcome all of you to the show and of course thank you so much to our returning listeners. So glad you are here. And if you have friends or family that you think would enjoy the show please tell them about it. Also the video promos everyone is asking about. So glad you guys like them. If you want one for your business or just for you we're having a little competition. I'm going to make one for a listener. All you have to do is share the promo videos on social media, starting now until July 1st whoever shares the most wins. I will announce the winner the first week in July.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to my friend and guest Amanda Abella. Besides the fact that for some reason her Instagram stories seem to be more entertaining than most TV shows she's hard to label because she does as she says all the things. Amanda is all about multiple income streams. She has a book Make Money or Honey, an award winning blog. She has been a brand ambassador for big names like Capitol One and [Into It 00:02:05]. She teaches millennials how to be entrepreneurs and influencers just like her and she will soon be bringing back her popular podcast. Here is Amanda Abella.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amanda Abella, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Amanda Abella:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got to hang out and get to know each other recently at the Statement event in upstate New York. That was awesome.

Amanda Abella:
It was so much fun. I needed that so bad. You have no idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think we all did. I learned a lot about you. I mean you do all the things Amanda. All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah all the things, literally all the things. I like my money coming from different places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, multiple revenue streams, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, your bestselling book is Make Money or Honey. And you also have an amazing social media feed that we were all gushing over at the retreat, especially your Insta Stories. You also are an influencer, you even have a course on how to be an influencer and you're a brand ambassador.

Amanda Abella:
Yup I literally do all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. What happened with me was you know I graduated during the recession and I just kind of learned really early on to always have your money coming from different places and then I was a recruiter for two years and I interviewed people who lost their jobs all the time. So I was like you always need to have multiple sources of income because if one thing doesn't work out like you get fired, well you still have money coming in from this other place so it started as a survival mechanism and now it's just a wealth building strategy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wise words my friend. And one of your multiple income streams that is growing is your brand ambassador business. And that brings us to your money story that has to do with a big new client that almost wasn't as big as you wanted it to be. Tell us.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so what happened there was I started getting approached a lot more for brand ambassador work. And first of all I had no idea how much money you could make doing this stuff because I was just having so much fun. I didn't know what the market rates were. I didn't know how to negotiate these situations. I didn't know anything about the contracts. But I started getting approached for this kind of work. So I went to go find myself an agent because I was like I need help. And the agent trained me a little bit on what to do in the meetings and all those kinds of things. And we were negotiating with this really big client. It was the first time I was going to do something of that magnitude and we were trying to figure out my rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of business was the client in? Can you tell us anything about it?

Amanda Abella:
Financial software.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Amanda Abella:
So we were trying to figure out my rate sheet for all the different deliverables and things like that because that's how green I was right, like I didn't even have a rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of deliverables would be on the rate sheet?

Amanda Abella:
You know media appearances, social media posts, blog posts, e-mail blasts, Twitter chats, all that type of stuff, all the different things that they ask you to do. I was so green I didn't even have a rate sheet for these things. And we were trying to figure that out at the same time while negotiating with this particular client.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you even start? Is there some kind of a standard place you can go and get that information?

Amanda Abella:
So what really helped me was asking a lot of my friends who were already doing that kind of work. And that's actually how I found out that for many years I have been low balling myself just because I didn't know, like I had no idea. I had no idea I could get paid what they were getting paid and then also one of those friends is the one who connected me with my agent and my agent who has been doing this for a very long time she kind of schooled me on how much money I was leaving on the table. So that was really helpful for me too. So that's how I found out personally.

Amanda Abella:
So what was going on was when we were trying to figure out the rate sheet we were trying to figure out the numbers and I went pretty high on this client to the point where my agent who you know she was doing her job. She's coming from many years of experience was like are you sure you want to do that because you're still pretty green, like do you want to go that high. And I thought to myself well you know what I may be green in terms of working on these big campaigns but I've got plenty of years of blogging experience. I have a pretty big social media following, they're pretty engaged. I'm bilingual. You know I bring things to the table that they need. So let's just go high and see what happens. She agreed. So we went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Amanda Abella:
Not even one peep, not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
So but here is the question Amanda. Knowing what you know now would you have gone higher?

Amanda Abella:
Well I was already pretty high for me. I mean my agent was to the point where she was like congratulations you just gave yourself a bonus of thousands of dollars for this kind of work. Good job negotiating that one. So I thought about that and for this particular client no because that was already super high for me to begin with. But-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much of a percentage higher was it than you kind of thought you were getting or that you were getting before?

Amanda Abella:
It was way more than double. It was like six or seven times more what I was getting previously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. OK. I'm sorry go on.

Amanda Abella:
So then having learned from that experience which was also my first experience like being in those meetings with an agent and learning those sort of nuances when you're in those situations with PR teams and things like that it was definitely a real lesson and you know confidence sells. Number one. And number two, fake it till you make it if you have to.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually came, you weren't really faking it because it sounds like when you went to them you had very specific reasons why you were worth what you were asking.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah but it doesn't mean I wasn't nervous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Amanda Abella:
I think people think that you walk into these situations and you're like fearless and you're not, you're just pretending not to be fearless which is where the confidence comes in. But you're right I did have specific experience and specific angles and specific things that I knew they wanted for this specific campaign and I definitely used it to my advantage. And like I said my agent agreed. So you know on the mere fact that I was bilingual I can get more money just because I'm bilingual and living in a city like Miami where everybody is bilingual I forget that that's actually a really valuable asset that I could get paid a lot more money for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners who may not all be social media all stars and brand influencers, brand ambassadors, how can they apply this to their own lives?

Amanda Abella:
I think it's realizing that there is a lot of talk about the influence that you have in the social media numbers. They're really not that important. One of the things my students tell me all the time is I had no idea that I could get that kind of work with 3000 followers on my Instagram feed or a thousand people on an email list. They all go into my program assuming that they need you know tens of thousands or 100000 followers to get really good brand partnerships and what they don't realize is that brand partnerships are looking more for unique angles and engagement more than they're looking for the actual numbers. Because I mean you could pay to get followers and brands know it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. I want to move on to your money tip because this one is going to be a huge hit with our listeners. I love it because you're going to spill some secrets for us. What's your money tip Amanda?

Amanda Abella:
So my secret is all about the rewards programs that restaurants are really bad at marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Therefore they are secrets, they're sort of open secrets that nobody knows about.

Amanda Abella:
So if you frequent certain places and certain restaurants, I've noticed it's definitely more with the chain restaurants. A lot of times they have apps and on those apps they have rewards programs or loyalty programs or referral programs. So for example I go to a specific juice bar pretty often after I work out. I learned recently that they had an app where I could get like 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:10:13]after spending a certain amount or if I refer friends I get three dollars off my next juice. I had no idea because they hadn't actually like said anything to me, I just happened to see a, I saw a little thing on the napkin holder and then a friend also told me he was like you don't know that they have an app.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so random.

Amanda Abella:
So my tip is not only to use the apps and find them but ask to see if they're even available because like I said they don't necessarily do a really good job of telling their customers that these things exist. Unless you're Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Starbucks is pretty aggressive about promoting their app. But other companies maybe not so. And if you take the time just like with so many of the money tips that we talk about here if you take the time to focus and learn about these programs, ask about them, you will benefit.

Amanda Abella:
Yep, it's all about asking.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's the best deal you've ever gotten through an app?

Amanda Abella:
Hmm well I'm getting 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:11:07]now. So that's pretty good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Pretty good.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah I'm kind of addicted to them to be honest so I would say that's the best one although I would say probably my best deals have been through the Soul Cycle app.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh OK.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I do Soul Cycle. You know if you sign up for like certain challenges, if you're working out already anyway, you sign up for certain challenges or certain themed rides or they'll have certain promotions going on. Like I walked in yesterday and they gave me like a bag of free stuff because I'm partaking in this certain challenge and I've been tracking it you know on the app and then once I get to a certain amount of rides which the app tracks then I get a free ride. So that's probably the one that has saved me the most money because Soul Cycle is not cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, can we just back up here because I really want to hear about the free stuff. What was in the free stuff bag from Soul Cycle?

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I got a bag. I got like a top to work out in. I got a water bottle. People just keep giving me water bottles lately, I have a whole collection of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah water bottles are, we got water bottles on the retreat.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. I was joking with my roommate I was like I lose one water bottle and require another four no matter-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know, I know. I am very excited about the Soul Cycle free stuff though. You have delivered, that alone Amanda, you scored. I want to talk about you because one of the things that happened on the retreat was you made a decision to pick something up that I loved. I loved your podcast and I'm so happy that you're going to bring it back.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so I'm bringing my podcast back after much deliberation and I really want to thank Statement and all the women who attended it and all the tips you gave me Bobbi because I've been studying your podcast since I got back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
I was like Bobbi is on point. Bobbi knows what she's doing. I'm going to take some notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
So I'm bringing my podcast back. It's coming back in July and it's going to alternate between solo episodes where I'm answering a lot of my audience questions about you know business, online marketing, negotiating, making money, all those types of things and then I'm also going to be bringing on a lot of guests so a lot of the women who were at the retreat have actually already signed up to be on the podcast so I'll be interviewing them. It will be a lot of fun and I'm trying to really bring as much diversity as I can to the conversation. So a lot of women, a lot of people of color. I'm Latina so that's something that really matters to me. One of the things I've heard so much from people is how sometimes it's hard for them to really relate to a lot of the mainstream financial advice that's out there because these people just you know either don't look like them or don't have the same experience as them. So I'm trying to bring as much diversity to the conversation as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you for that. I'm working on that here too. So I think we are hopefully on a good path with all that. Where can people find you, especially your Insta Stories which we're all obsessed with.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah my Insta Stories are a lot of fun. You guys can go watch me freak out over seeing snow for the first time on my Insta. Bobby was there for that. So you could go to Amanda Abella. That's my Twitter and my Instagram, I'm all over those all day long. You could also go to my Web site amandaabella.com or you could find my podcast, previous episodes of my podcast. So they're on iTunes, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Spotify, YouTube, just search make money or honey or my name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Amanda.

Amanda Abella:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take on what Amanda had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. Take a moment and write down the skills that you have that are unique, things you can use as leverage to get more money in a negotiation. So in Amanda's case one thing that she is is Latina, she's also bilingual. If you can't think of something, become something. Learn a skill that will set you apart from others. Invest in yourself in a specific intentional way that will give you a foundation to command higher compensation. Focus on the skills that are most in demand but still hard to find in your field.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talked about the fact that confidence sells and that you have to sell yourself. She did OK when she waited for businesses to come to her but her business really took off when she took control and became proactive. Find a way to appear confident even if you're having jitters inside like Amanda admits she sometimes does. If you need to just leave the room to gather your thoughts if you're getting nervous during a negotiation. Maybe do some power poses. Look up a TED talk by a woman named Amy Cuddy. I'll put it in the show notes and you will see what I mean. I've done it myself and it really works.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what story you want to share and what your everyday money tip would be if you are chosen. Thank you all for being part of our financial grownup community. If you enjoy the show consider leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts and of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1. Don't forget to DM me with your feedback about the show. I love hearing from everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show join the competition. Share the videos when you see them on social media. Retweet, repost and so on. You can even see them by the way on YouTube now. We will pick a winner by July 1st. So look for us to move forward in early July. Amanda is amazing. I'm excited for her podcast to come back so make sure to watch her social channels for updates on that. Great episode. And thank you Amanda for giving us the confidence to ask for what we deserve and sometimes even more than we think we can get. Helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially

-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family

-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family

-How communication issues can impact financial decisions

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help

-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed

-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help

-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals

-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store

-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money

In my take you will learn:

-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help

-Strategies to have money available for that purpose

-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s new book!

Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice

Follow Jen!

Twitter: @jenhemphilll

IG: @jenhemphill

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.

Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.

Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?

Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”

Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.

Jen Hemphill:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?

Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.

Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right.

Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.

Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.