Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move. 

In Brian’s money story you will learn:

-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money

-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations

-The financial and social reality of academic life

-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends

-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career

-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career

-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job

In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:

-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change

-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right

-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward

In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How giving money can create contentment

-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier

-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you. 

In My Take you will learn:

-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose

-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values

Brian and Bobbi also talk about:

-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"

-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment

-How his book cuts through jargon

-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing

Episode Links

Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com

Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth

Follow Brian!

Twitter @brianportnoy

LinkedIn Brian Portnoy

 

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Transcription

Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.

Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.

Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.

Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.

Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.

Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?

Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?

Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?

Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.

Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.

Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?

Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.

Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.

Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.

Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?

Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.

Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. 

 

In Joe’s money story you will learn:

-Joe’s penny pinching philosophy- and how it backfired

-The impact of getting a gig on local tv

-Joe’s off-base take on how to develop trust in clients

 

In Joe’s lesson you will learn:

-The true cost of plastic shoes

-Why your co-workers may not tell you the truth

-How to avoid some of Joe’s mistakes

-How Joe invested in fixing his image problem, and increased his wealth

-Ways to get feedback on not just your career but also other aspects of your life

 

In Joe’s money tip you will learn:

-How to delegate one person to be the lead family financial manager

-What Joe refers to as ‘fantasyland'

-The one thing Joe does that avoids fighting about money in his family

-How to spot mistakes in your bills

 

In my take you will learn:

-The value of investing in your personal appearance

-What Kevin O’Leary had to say about investing in quality clothing and accessories

-How I have been burned by low quality purchases as fast fashion stores

-Why renting clothing can be a viable option that may work for your budget

-The importance of constantly upgrading your skills through education including online courses. 

 

Episode links:

Mint

Clarity Money

Moneylion

Udemy

Rent the Runway

 

Follow Joe Saul-Sehy!

 

Joe’s course How to legally cheat on your taxes

Joe’s money in the mornings show on facebook

Joe’s Facebook group

 

Money in the Morning podcast

Stacking Benjamins podcast

 

Twitter: @averagejoemoney

Facebook: Facebook.com/stackingbenjamins

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. 

The popular podcast host fesses up to having been a cheapskate fashion victim early in his career- and how learning to dress better, literally made him wealthier. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss the value of investing in your personal appearance. #AppearanceTips #InvestInYourself

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Transcription

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. This episode is all about investing in yourself. Whether it comes to your wardrobe or your education as you hear and will hear more from our guest Joe Saul-Sehy is the host of the crazy popular award winning Stacking Benjamins podcast. I don't have time to list all of the awards it has won but they include Best Business Podcast from the Academy of Podcasters, and Best Finance Podcast by Kiplinger. They also win a lot of these Plutus Awards among others.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're going to really like Joe's story. If you're a good dresser you're going to feel validated for spending all that time, effort and money. If you're not such a good dresser, I hope you're going to get motivated. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe Saul-Sehy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I can't believe I made it here. I must be a grownup if I made it here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You must, and you're up early these days. We're going to talk more about it later, but congratulations on the launch of Money In The Morning. It's awesome, and I love the music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you. We picked it out just for you Bobbi. That's our whole thing, if we can win with Bobbi we win with everybody, so there we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's happy music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is happy music, and I need happy music with coffee in the morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've evolved a lot in your grownup life, but there was a time, and we're leading into your money story here Joe, when you were a bit of a cheapskate. It wasn't just affecting you, it was really affecting your whole universe. Do tell.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I was a financial planner for 16 years. During that time I was teaching people how to pinch pennies and cut corners where they could. I thought, "You know, I really should take my own advice." I learned a valuable lesson here because people come to see you and they expect a certain type of person, but at the time I didn't think about that. I thought, "You know what? I'm in my office all day. I'm never out of my office." When I am, I started doing a television gig in Detroit at WXYZ Channel Seven, go Detroit. Even when I did that, people didn't see my shoes. So I went from really nice shoes-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well people that were watching you on camera did not see your shoes.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
People watching me on television didn't see my shoes. People that I interfaced with on a daily basis, they did, and my clients did. So I went from these really nice shoes that I had to these plastic shoes. You know, the shoes that buy at-

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know about plastic shoes Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Of course you don't. Like a Payless shoes. I would go there and I'd find these shoes that looked nice, but they looked like they were polished but they really were just plastic-y. For about a year, I for those. I dumbed down my suits, I wore cheaper ties. I thought, "People trust me, they like me. I don't need to spend a lot of money on this stuff." And then I realized that everything that I was doing was wrong one day, when I finally bought some new shoes and I went to my mentor's office, and the very first thing he said Bobbi, I walk in he said, "It's about time you got rid of those cheap shoes."

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I said, "What are you talking about? I've had those for a year. How come you didn't tell me?" He goes, "Well, I just thought you'd find out sooner or later by yourself." So I realized then that everyone notices. Then when I hired a firm to help me look better on TV, because I also-

Bobbi Rebell:
You hired someone.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're really investing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Yes, because I realized from the shoes, I realized I kind of have to invest in my career, and then I realized how bad everything was. The very first thing that the firm said that I hired, they said, "Well, we need to give you a big boy haircut." Because I was still wearing this haircut that I had from college, this is back when I had hair. They changed my look to be a more sophisticated haircut, to be shorter, to be more conservative, to look the part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They went with me shopping for clothes to show me how I could still spend less money on clothes, but I had to dress much more smart. I had to be trust ... and it's funny how that changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part. I don't know about you Bobbi, I don't trust people who look too good, people that are dressed to the nines. For whatever reason I don't trust them, but that doesn't give you an excuse to not dress appropriately, and I guess even to widen it, to take responsibility for your career. We have to take responsibility for this thing that we call a career and make it our own?

Bobbi Rebell:
Expending on that, what is the lesson for our listeners from the story?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I think the big lesson is don't wait for somebody else to give you this feedback about your career. Look in the mirror, and not just in the physical aspects like I was, but look in the mirror when it comes to your relationships with your family, with your relationship with money, with your relationship with your job. It's far easier, everybody wants to pinch pennies, it's far easier to go make a lot more money that it is to pinch pennies. It's funny, we might be able to save 50 cents or a dollar, but we could make $100 this week if we just looked outside ourself and went looking. I mean, there are so many job opportunities online, there are so many things to do. Look in the mirror and take responsibility for yourself was something that I learned that day that I try to teach other people now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And grow the top line.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Grow the top line, amen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a money tip, something personal that you and your family do that people can maybe make their own and do right away.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I just said, focus on the top line Bobbi, but I also look at the bottom line. Because if we can stretch the difference between the two of those, then that's where we experience growth. In a lot of families what I noticed is that one person in the family, like you have a budgeting partner, a spouse, a significant other, one person usually knows where every dollar is, every dime is. The other person's in a place I refer to as fantasy land. They think they know, they have this general feeling, but they also know the other person's taking care of it.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's when fights begin. That's when bad things happen in a relationship, it's because the person in fantasy land all the sudden realizes the fantasy doesn't look the way they thought that it should have, so there ends up being friction. To avoid friction, something that Cheryl my spouse, and I implemented and that I like to teach people how to do, is just have a quick weekly meeting. Maybe 15 minutes over breakfast, or I prefer over wine.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the evening, not wine at breakfast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's wine, iHop, you're probably [crosstalk 00:07:10]

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I'm not judging but you know.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's right, good for somebody but maybe not me. The thing I like about this weekly meeting though is it's quick, it's actually fun. We look through ... I use an app called Clarity Money but you can Mint, you can use MoneyLion. There's lots of apps out there. You could even just use a spreadsheet or look through, go to your bank website and take a look at what expenses you had. It's very easy, here's the way we do it. We look through all the upcoming expenses. What are we going to spend money on in the next week? We talk through that. Then the second thing we do is we look at the previous week's expenses and we see if there were any mistakes on any of our bills. What's funny is, we find so many mistakes. It's horrifying how many-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're never in your favor.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They never ever ... It's amazing that none of them ... Yeah, isn't that shocking. Yeah, business is always taking from me. And then also look for recurring expenses that you don't need anymore. I found just a couple weeks ago that there's been a recurring meeting, because we miss meetings from time to time and I must have missed it the last two years in a row. There's a Norton subscription that I've had for the last two years that I don't have hooked up to anything. That's a $100 a year for this subscription. It was really ... Luckily I caught it. I was able to get back this year, I can't go back and get the year before that, but have that money refunded to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, which also is cool. But the best thing is, Cheryl and I now go through the week and we know where the dollars are going to be spent. If things change we've got this open line of communication. I've got to tell you, it's so fun. The weekly meeting is so fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. And you know what's really fun? Is spending less on your taxes. I have a CFP, but I have to tell you, especially because I got the CFP before the new tax law was passed. I find it a little bit overwhelming, but you have out that can help a little bit.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. Thanks for mentioning this, because we were going to call this, Bobbi, we were going to call it Understanding The Tax Form, but that sounds so boring. It just sounds so-

Bobbi Rebell:
I would want that. I would do that one, but maybe not other people.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
[crosstalk 00:09:10] Yeah, you and I are money nerds so that's great. But here's what somebody did with me, this is the genesis of the course. I thought taxes were kind of mystical and I would ask people, "Can I write this off? Is this something that maybe I can take advantage of? Is this taxable? Is this not taxable? How does it all work?" Somebody sat down with me and walk through the 1040 and how the 1040 works, and then the itemized deductions page and how that works.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Once I knew that, and what's cool is it's only three pages, once we walked through that I totally then could see what I could write off, what I couldn't write off, where my opportunities might be, how my retirement plan fit into the big picture, what the downsides might be in the future, what tax problems I might have in the future. We call the course How To Legally Cheat On Your Taxes, and it is a lot of fun. It's a do at your own pace course. It teaches you how taxes work. You can do two things. Number one, put Humpty Dumpty together, like right now during tax season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, it's coming.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Put things together- Yeah, put things together in a way that helps. But that's not where the magic is. I think the real magic is doing things through the year so that when you're trying to put Humpty Dumpty together next year, you're able to do that much, much better because you knew how taxes worked going in. I think that the powerful thing. That's the reason we created it, was to try to get people that same leg up that I got.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Where can people find that? And where can people find you? I know Facebook in the morning, it's fascinating people. You can him do Money In The Mornings on Facebook and you can see how everything is made.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's so-

Bobbi Rebell:
Including the bloopers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. I was going to say, it's so uncomfortable because ... and I did it live on Facebook to try to force myself to do ... We talked earlier about taking responsibility for your career. One thing I do, I'm a natural stutterer, and do try to get around stuttering-

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes, and to make myself more natural on camera and try to get used to that. I started doing these daily Facebook Lives and say, "You know what, we're going to do this show without a net." So Money In The Morning is without a net, five days a week, wherever you're listening to this show. We just do two quick headlines. It's live, and man sometimes bad stuff happens. Which I think some people listen to it just to hear the car wreck.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right. Just to hear some of the bad stuff that sometimes happens, because you can't take it back if it's live.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. All right, so where can people find you and the course and everything?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, yeah. That's wherever you listen to this podcast, is where you can find Money In The Morning or Stacking Benjamins, our main show. The course is at learn.stackingbenjamins.com, that course, and we have a couple others, Save 50% Of Your Income and a quick hit course on your benefits package, so when you are going through open enrollment every year. Just a very quick, like, "What do I need to remember while I'm doing my open enrollment?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Where can people find you social media before we go?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I am @AverageJoeMoney on Twitter, stop by and say hi. On Facebook it's facebook.com/istackbenjamins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, thank you so much.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thanks Bobbi. This was so fun. I'm so happy that I'm finally a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are. Congratulations Joe. Here is my take on what Joe had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one, wear quality clothing. This is something that previous guests Kevin O'Leary touched on as well with respect especially to his mother. Not only is it important to look your best in business, but you often come out financially ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get tempted like everyone by the fast fashion places. I always get burned. I buy a sweater for 20 bucks, it looks identical to the one for 200 in the department store, so I think I'm really smart. But then, after a couple of wearings, it's trash. I'm going to let you guys in on an open secret. Notice that I said wear quality clothing. I did not say buy. If you come see me speak, I am often wearing a very expensive designer dress that I don't own. It's rented. The designer handbag I'm carrying, you got it, probably rented. That way I get the benefits of always showing up in a well made dress without having to constantly invest in buying expensive clothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, always keep learning. Joe talked about education, so whatever interests you or will further your career, get better at it. If you work for a big company, always find out what they will pay for. My first employer, CNBC, paid for my CFP classes. There are also incredible online resources from LinkedIn to Udemy, even Investopedia has great online classes. In fact many top universities are putting their classes online and you can often audit them for free. Make yourself smarter, it will probably pay off for you financially, but you'll also probably enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. It's amazing. Please, follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on everything going on with the show. I hope you enjoyed Joe's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by [Steve Stuart 00:14:28] and is a BRK Media production.

This episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor Jean Chatzky is about getting the most value for your work. 

In Jean’s money story you will learn

• the impact her divorce had on her financial strategy

• how the loss of her dad changed her perspective on money

• the loss of her job and the career change that followed

• how to assess your financial needs, especially your savings goals

• how focusing on her money created emotional and psychological security

• her  post-divorce college savings plan pivot

 

In Jean’s lesson you will learn:

• how to evaluate your financial needs at different life stages

• which professional advisors she has used at key points in her life

• how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products

• why and how she shares information about pricing

 

In her money tip you will learn:

• the power of automatic savings

• mental accounting and why it works for her

• using different pools of money for different goals

• guilt free spending

 

In my take you will learn:

• my advice on knowing your worth in the market

• why socializing and making friends in person and online is key to growing your business

• Why you must choose clients that value your work

• How to deal with clients that lowball you on price

• How to grow low paying clients into higher paying ones

Links related to this episode

The Today Show

Jean Chatzky

Her Money with Jean Chatzky

Stacy Tisdale

This Financial Grownup episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor, Jean Chatzky, is about getting the most value for your work. We also discuss how to assess your savings goals and how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products. #SavingsPlan #ChargeYourWorth #Author

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Transcription

Jean Chatzky:
We were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was NBC today show financial editor Jean Chatzky, host of the Her Money podcast, and author of countless bestselling books, most recently Age Proof. The clip is part of the lesson that she will share with us, in just a few minutes, about getting paid more. But first, we are going to start with her money story, which has to do with a rocky time in Jean's life, and how she found financial security. Here is Jean Chatzky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jean Chatzky, financial grownup, welcome to the program.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you Bobbi, so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and happy 2018, and happy almost 100 episodes of Her Money. Congratulations.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you, and congratulations on the launch of this podcast, I think it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, it's been quite a year. I remember I think my second time ever as a guest was on Her Money, so it holds a very special place in my heart, and it's really just wonderful content that you're bringing to people, so thank you for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
And everyone of course should check out Her Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have brought with you a really important and compelling money story. Do tell.

Jean Chatzky:
I feel like I was thrust into the real world of financial grownups when I got divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how old were you?

Jean Chatzky:
I was about 40. I mean that's when it hit, and it hit at a time when a lot of things hit. I lost my dad, who had been sick for a while. I got fired from Money Magazine, I mean they didn't actually say fired, but that's what happens when you get laid off. I had to take a whole new look at my life, knowing that I was going to be doing it on my own, knowing that I was going to be a freelancer rather than an employee, starting a business, maybe hiring my own employees.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you have now.

Jean Chatzky:
Which I have now. And all of it caused me to really take a hard look at the inflows and outflows of money, at what I really needed. And most importantly, at what I needed to meet my savings goals, because when I got divorced, I started saving money like crazy, because nothing else made me feel as safe, and I was not feeling particularly safe in the world at that point.

Jean Chatzky:
And so it took the form of doing everything from buying a smaller house than I could really afford, and just shoving more money every single month into savings, to starting new college accounts for my kids, because the plan that my ex-husband and I had about how we were going to pay off the mortgage and then use that money to pay for college had gone out the window, to really taking a closer look at all of the bills every single month, and seeing what was not necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't doing that before?

Jean Chatzky:
I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it in such a diligent and type A way. I was saving up to the guidelines that I give people, but I just wanted to do more. That's what made me feel safe, was not shoes in the closet, it was just money in the bank.

Jean Chatzky:
So my lesson is a little bit different from that story, but no matter what stage you're at in life, we all need help. And I think asking for help, which I did during that period in my life, from financial advisors, from lawyers, from estate planners, from friends who had been through it before me. We've got to ask for help to figure out how to chart the right course at the right time.

Jean Chatzky:
And I thought about this lesson because I had lunch yesterday with Stacey Tisdale, who is another financial expert/journalist/colleague, who you should absolutely have on this show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely.

Jean Chatzky:
And we were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more. And doing this feels to me like we are really helping each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give me a money tip, something that you are using yourself, with your family, that is really making a difference, that people can implement right now.

Jean Chatzky:
Going back to what I told you about saving like a crazy person around the time of my divorce, I save automatically for every goal, even the small ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you separate different accounts you mean?

Jean Chatzky:
I separate. I am a huge believer in mental accounting for which Richard Thaler just won a Nobel prize. I find when you have different pools of money for different things, it's easier to reach your goals. I've got a big trip coming up, I've got that money isolated. I'm saving ahead of time, and it means I will not be looking at big credit card bills that I don't have money to pay off, after that trip happens.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also takes away the guilt of feeling like maybe I shouldn't treat myself to this trip, because the money is there for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it's a trip, or a handbag, or a spa weekend, or college. Just knowing this is the job that this money has been set aside to do is really, really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, thank you Jean Chatzky.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that advice about pricing. Information is power when it comes to pricing your services, especially as we seem to move more and more into the gig economy, not to mention side hustles.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to just expand on Jean's great advice about knowing what you're worth in the market and getting it. Financial grownup tip number one, get social. Think of others in your field not as the competition, but as your teammates, your allies. Spend time with your people. This can be in person, like Jean does, or even online. There are countless groups these days, especially for example on Facebook, where you can ask people specifically what do they charge?

Bobbi Rebell:
They may not say it publicly in the App itself, but a lot of people are willing to DM you with some actual numbers and helpful tips about what you can and should be charging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, do not work with clients that don't value your work, aka don't pay you enough. Good clients want you to stay in business, that can't happen if you are in a race to the bottom with price. If someone does not want to pay the right price to work with you, odds are this is not the last argument you're going to have with them. If they truly have a budget that is still too small, see if you can limit the scope of what you're doing. If you believe they're going to grow into a client that can eventually afford you, make a judgment call. But make it clear that you are working below rate, and that the numbers are unsustainable and need to grow when their business grows.

Bobbi Rebell:
If it really can't work, consider referring them out to someone who does work with people with smaller budgets. They will appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. We are loving all the amazing feedback. Please subscribe, share, rate, review. It matters, and is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK media production.