Former Facebook exec. Paul Ollinger left his job with a pile of money and no plans. But retirement wasn’t all that and he decided to use his financial freedom to pivot to his true love, making people smile as a standup comedian and host of the podcast "Crazy Money". 

“The experience of being retired early was far far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.”

Paul's money story:

Yeah, I did quit at 42 and I left Facebook without a plan. I just thought, "Hey, I have enough money. I don't want to work and be stressed out all the time. I don't want to be away from my family. I want to be close to my mom who's sick," and I bailed on work and I didn't have a plan, so I thought, "Well, I'll just go be kind of rich for a while." After you take a few trips after you start getting back in shape and work on your golf handicap, one day I came home after dropping my kids at school and I turned on my computer and there was nothing there. It was like, you have no mail. I was like, huh. I was like, I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being a part of a team and I was like, well, what now? The experience of being retired early was far, far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because we talk a lot now, there's this growing enthusiasm for this acronym FIRE, as I mentioned, Financial Independence Retire Early. You have some very strong opinions about that.

Paul Ollinger:
Yeah, I think FI is great, financial independence. I think it's hugely neglected in our country and that we should all work very, very hard to buy ourselves back from the bank and to give ourselves a buffer so that we have the independence to leave a job if it's unhealthy for us, but I think the fascination, the fetishizing of RE, retire early, is hugely misdirected. You don't want to not work. You want to work on your terms and if that's how you interpret RE, then we're on the same page. but you want to be able to do work that's sustainable, that feeds your soul, and that is done in a way that leaves time in your life for things like family and staying healthy. The goal of retiring early and having nothing to do, that's not something any of us should aspire to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so back to the blank computer screen. You're sitting there, you got no mail, you got nowhere to go. What happens next?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I had done comedy before I worked at Facebook. I worked at Yahoo. I paid off my student loans and I went and I did comedy for two years before I went to Facebook. Then I got engaged and I just happened to end up getting a job selling advertising in Facebook, but when I left Facebook, I didn't have a plan. I was just walking away from something; I wasn't walking toward anything. After a year and a half, two years, of kind of goofing off and not finding what I wanted to do, I sucked it up and I decided I'm going to write every day, I'm going to get back in the open mics, I'm going to figure out how to reinvent myself as a stand-up comedian at, I guess it was 45 or 46 years old by that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What was the first thing you did? What was the conversation like with your family because you are now married and you now have children? If you're comfortable, tell us. You're welcome to tell us all your financial details, but give us some context for what this would involve financially.

Paul Ollinger:
On my very first date with my wife 14 years ago, I told her that I was going to quit my job and be a stand-up comedian and she was in from day one. You might also say she was warned on day one, so we've gone through periods of me doing very, very well in the corporate world and me making very little money as an artist. Four and a half, five years ago, when I really started back after Facebook, I said, "I'm going to commit to doing this, to getting after being a full-time comedian." She was fully onboard. Now, full disclosure, working at Facebook as one of the first 250 employees and getting stock options provided us with a size-able nest egg from which we have enough money to live indefinitely if we don't overspend. That certainly puts salve on the wounds of financial... the questions around finances if you don't have to make a living to feed your kids and pay your mortgage,

Bobbi Rebell:
What is it that you think people misunderstand then about the whole FIRE concept?

Paul Ollinger:
What people don't understand is how much they get from work that they're not computing on the positive side of the ledger. They think about work, they think about, okay, I get a paycheck and then it comes with all these costs of stress and hours and travel, but they're not saying, oh, what I get from work isn't just a paycheck. It's camaraderie, it's an identity, it's respect from colleagues, it's the satisfaction I get from learning and solving problems. All that stuff is really, really important. I mean, look at Maslow's Hierarchy. Belongingness is something that takes us one step above where we would be without work.

“I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being part of a team.”

Paul’s money lesson:

Find work that you want to do for as long as you can. Find work that doesn't just pay the most, but that you want to do for as long a period as you can. If you have a dream, by the way, it's a lot easier to chase if you've paid your bills first. Putting a little nest egg away before you chase your dream is a far safer way to do it than just saying screw this when you're 32 and then when you're 55 not having anything to show financially for your efforts of the previous two decades.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think there is a danger that some of the young retirees are putting themselves in by, especially, we're recording this at a time when the stock market is extremely volatile, so people may have historic calculations in their savings, but they may not necessarily play out as they expect?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I think there's two things there absolutely. One is, if you think having a million dollars when you're 32 in the market is going to last you forever, then you haven't lived through too many economic cycles and that million dollars can easily be $600,000 after a couple of bad quarters, so there's that. The second thing is that it's human nature that our wants continue to expand and it's not that we can't manage that as people, and I think we should be very aware of how we spend our money so that we're making sure we're spending it on what we value and provides us with more happiness, but however much you have and think you can live on when you're 32, it's not going to be the same number when you're 42 as perhaps your family expands or your parents get sick. There's all kinds of stuff that's going to happen in life that million bucks that could turn into $600,000 probably won't be able to pay for.

“If you have a dream, it is a lot easier to chase if you have paid your bills first.”

Paul's everyday money tip:

Paul Ollinger:
Be on the same page as your spouse. As difficult as it may be, go sit down and talk about where you're spending your money with your partner because there's nothing more expensive than not being on the same page with the person who shares, not just your life and your household, but the money that you all spend together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm just going to add, have that conversation ASAP if you're not already and don't be afraid to actually bring documents and go over what you're actually spending. Right?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, that's the first part is to find out where it's actually going and to say, "Hey, do you know that we're actually spending X on this? Do you feel like, are you getting what you want out of it? Because it doesn't feel like that's bringing us as much happiness as the top line number would indicate it should be."

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

My favorite line of Paul's in this entire episode was quote, "If you have a dream, it is easier to chase it if you have your bills paid." The truth is that is not so easy, but it is often the harsh truth. We get so caught up in the romance of going for it that we forget the role of financial stability in getting to our goals. No one wants a comedian who is stressed out about his bills, although actually in Paul's case, that could probably work into his act, but you get what I'm saying here.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

After our interview, I asked Paul how we could score discount or even free comedy tickets. He gave me the inside scoop. He said a lot of the shows don't actually sell out and the clubs make a lot of their money on the drinks and then the other stuff that you buy there, like souvenirs, so they really want to fill those seats and they often do this by sending out last minute email blasts offering free, free, free seats. You need to find out where the comedy shows are in your area or where you're going to visit. Get on those email lists, follow them on social media, so you can be on the list or get the social media tweets or posts and find out when those free tickets are happening.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Paul’s website - www.PaulOllinger.com/

• Paul’s podcast Crazy Money
  
  
  
  

Follow Paul!

• Instagram - Paul_Ollinger

• Facebook - @PaulOllinger

• Twitter - @Paul_Ollinger

• LinkedIn - @PaulOllinger

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. 

In Tanja's money story you will learn:

• The flip side of the side hustle

• When to call it quits

• Why she decides to leave her side hustle as a yoga instructor

In Tanja’s money lesson you will learn:

• Being aware of your options

• If you're side hustle is going to hold you back

• Realizing that a side hustle may not be forever and that's okay

In Tanja's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The surprising places you can schedule your dental and eye exams to save you money

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it’s important to be clear about your purpose if you have a side hustle

• The importance of knowing if your healthcare is valid overseas
  

Episode Links:

• Tanja's book Work Optional

• The Fairer Cents podcast

Check out Tanja's website -

• Our Next Life

Follow Tanja!

• Instagram - @our_nextlife

• Pinterest - @our_nextlife

• Twitter - @our_nextlife

• Facebook - @ournextlife

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Tanja Hester:
Within that year of quitting, I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you guys have side hustles, multiple income streams? It's kind of becoming the normal thing to do these days, but they are also, if we're being honest, second jobs, and sometimes it just becomes too much. Welcome everyone. The show is growing and we have a lot of new listeners. Thank you for checking us out. I would love to learn how you heard about the show, so special ask here. Let me know how you heard of the podcast. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, or on Twitter at BobbiRebell, and you can always email at hello@financialgrownup.com and feel free to give other feedback as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to our guest. She is Tanja Hester. First of all, she has one of my favorite podcasts, The Fairer Cents, with Kara Perez. She also is an award winning blogger. Her blog is called Our Next Life, and we were able to get her on the show because of her new book. It is called Work Optional, and based on the story she shared, it also could be called "And Side Hustles Optional," because it seems like everyone expects you to have a side hustle these days and sometimes you just don't or you just can't anymore. And learning when it is okay to say no is definitely a very Financial Grownup thing. Here is Tanja Hester. Hey, Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Hey Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am happy to be talking to you about your new book: Work Optional, Retire Early. A lot of people already know you though because you're an overachiever, Tanja. You have, first of all, your blog. Beyond the fact that you're a part of the FIRE movement and you are financially independent, you are retired. This is some busy retirement by the way, just saying. Your blog, Our Next Life, was Blog of the Year for the Plutus Awards, which is huge. I am not a Plutus Awards winner. I was nominated though. This podcast was nominated, I should say. You're also the cohost of really one of, if not my very favorite podcast, Fairer Cents, so love all of them. So happy to have you.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you. Wow, that was the best intro ever, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is all sincere and all true. I really loved your book. I actually have asked you to talk about a money story from your book that really hit home with me and I think is really relevant to so many listeners, and something we're going to be talking more about, and that is the flip side to the side hustle and when to know when to call it quits basically, because in the book you talk about leaving your side hustle as a yoga instructor, and I really wanted to hear more. So tell us your money story, Tanya.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I started my career in DC and then LA, and at the time I was making not no money, but close to no money, especially considering how expensive those places are to live. And so I started teaching yoga when I think I was 23 or so. I loved yoga. I needed a side hustle. It was relatively low startup cost. I really do recommend actually teaching fitness for folks who want a side hustle, because you get paid to work out, and the overhead, you don't have to invest a whole lot to get certified, and it also makes you really comfortable on your feet and makes you a better public speaker, which are all my side effects. I did that for a long time. I also then started teaching spinning to supplement that, so I was doing both yoga and spinning. Yeah. About eight or nine years in I started realizing, for my main job, which was as a political consultant, I was having to travel a lot and I was starting to sub out more classes, or I was occasionally having to say no to things at my main job because of my class schedule, or I felt like I was subbing out too much stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you had to have a commitment to that people. You were on the schedule.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Yeah, and I had students who were my regulars who expected me to be there. It just got to a point where my main career and my side hustle were really in direct conflict with each other and I realized that continuing to teach yoga on the side was actually holding me back in my career, and was preventing me from being able to be a full team player, being able to say yes to things, so I made the really hard choice to give it up, which was hard because I love teaching yoga. I loved that community that I built, but within that year of quitting I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you prepare to lose that income stream? Because that is something a lot of people worry about.

Tanja Hester:
The truth is, I want to be clear that I'm in a financial unit, so my husband Mark was also working really hard through all of this and he had earned more. I think that this, I'm not remembering exactly, but I think he may have gotten a little bit of a promotion that year that I quit, so that kind of smoothed it out a little bit. But the truth is, by that point, we were both earning significantly above what we were spending, and so it was just a question of maybe taking a tiny temporary hit in what we were saving, but we were living so far below our means that it wasn't a question of constraining any spending because of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners who are getting such a very strong message, many of us, about having those multiple income streams, having those side hustles? There's downsides to it.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. There potentially are, and I think it's just being aware and intentional about what all of your options are. So if you're in a low level job right now and you want to stick that out, I think it's just paying attention to, is there a point at which having a side hustle is going to be too big a distraction? Is there a point at which it's going to start to hold you back? You know, I really am very pro side hustle, but I think it's just noticing that this may not be forever, or there might be stages in my life when I need to focus on one thing. So that's really I think what I'd advise, is just be smart about it. Just keep your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
And side hustles don't have to be forever.

Tanja Hester:
Absolutely not. They can be a great chapter of your life. I think of the decade when I taught yoga as a really special thing, but that doesn't mean I still have to be teaching it now.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's move on to your everyday money tip. This has to do with health care, actually.

Tanja Hester:
It's a better time to be early retired with healthcare than it used to be. Before the Affordable Care Act, people who didn't have a traditional job, and that could be freelancers and side hustlers and gig economy folks too, but we didn't necessarily have good ways to get it. Now with the Affordable Care Act, you can buy insurance, but for most of us that is not going to include dental or vision, and so a great way to save some money if you especially love international travel anyway, is when you're traveling, to schedule a dental cleaning, or schedule an eye exam, or do some of the predictable medical stuff that you know you can schedule when you're abroad.

Tanja Hester:
I think as Americans we tend to think of the rest of the world as not having high quality care, but that's just really not true. You can do a lot of the stuff for pennies on the dollar compared to what we pay here when you're already taking a trip, and if you're older and you need something like a hip replacement, it's worth pricing out what it would cost in a place like Thailand or India versus at home. Often, even if you have insurance, the total cost out of pocket in another country will be less than what you'd pay after copays and everything here.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's been your experience? Have you done it?

Tanja Hester:
You know what? I have not yet. We just haven't had the opportunity because we're only a year into early retirement, but for the book I interviewed a bunch of people who had and really heard nothing but positive experiences.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll have to look into that. Alright. I want to talk more about your book Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny Pinching Way, because it really draws from your experience. You mentioned FIRE, which stands for "financial independence, retire early." Is that correct?

Tanja Hester:
That is correct.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, your blog also won best FIRE blog I think the previous year, so you're an all star on all levels, but there's a lot of things that I like about the book, and one of them was, as a parent myself, that you also address the challenges that parents face when they have this goal of FIRE.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I did not want the book to be, "Here is the story of how Mark and I did this." I think that's pretty boring. We also recognize that a lot of our circumstances are not applicable to everyone or easy to replicate. We got really lucky in some key ways. We didn't have huge student debt. As you just said, we don't have kids, so I wanted to make this a book that was accessible to just about anybody, so I included a lot of case studies with parents. In fact, most of the people featured in the book have children, because I just felt that was so important to cover. Some people are couples who are earning under six figures combined, some single folks, so it's really trying to cover the bases.

Tanja Hester:
But yeah, I'm a huge believer that you can build a plan that works for you and you can, even if full retirement isn't an option, you can at least create a life where work is more optional, whether that's being able to cut back or take a year off or just work in a job that's fun for you as a part-time thing. I really do believe that it's accessible and so that's really what I set out to do with the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that really stood out to me in the book is a data point that you bring up, and that is that most people, we talk about the idea of choosing to retire early, but the truth is, data shows that most people don't actually even retire when they plan, so we think this is a choice, but really a lot of us just have to be ready whether we like it or not.

Tanja Hester:
Oh, it's so true. I feel really strongly about this because I get frustrated when there are new stories about early retirement that sort of go like, "Hey, look at these young weirdos." Because I think the discussion about early retirement should be inclusive of everyone, because as you said, that's just reality. We know that most Americans intend to work to 66 or 67, but end up having to retire at 62 or 63 on average. Although for many workers it's a lot younger, because companies are generally pretty cruel to those over 50. They lay people off without really much regard for how it's going to affect them, and so a ton of us, two-thirds are not retiring when we plan, and we also know that more than half of Americans are wholly reliant on Social Security as their only retirement income, which the very highest social security checks only give people about $30,000 a year.

Tanja Hester:
So we're talking about a real crisis and a real problem that just being able to put yourself in a position where you can retire securely is already enormous, and if you can put yourself in a position to be able to retire even sooner, all the better, because we just don't know what the future holds for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. All right. Everyone needs to check out Work Optional. Tanja, before I let you go, please tell us more about where people can follow you, your blogs, your podcasts, your books, all of you. There's so much happening in your retirement, Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
I know, I know and I know there are those who will say I'm not retired, but this is all stuff that I'm choosing to do that feels like play, and I feel lucky every day. My main site is ournextlife.com. From there you can find everything else. The podcast is The Fairer Cents, C-E-N-T-S on iTunes and all the podcast places. On social, I'm @Our_NextLife, mostly Twitter and Instagram, but from Our Next Life, you can kind of find all the different tentacles I have out there, get info on the book. The book is in all the normal book places, so yeah. It's a fun, fun thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, be clear about its purpose. For Tanja, it no longer was a needed income source. It was fun. She liked it, but it was holding her back. If the point of your side hustle is to build a business so you could leave your job and things are on track, of course you should stick with it, but as we move up in our primary jobs, side hustles can be a distraction, and you could be missing opportunities even just by not being as focused on the main job as you could be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Tanja talked about medical procedures overseas that are planned. Even if you don't plan to have something done, it's a good idea to note if your health care insurance is valid overseas, especially in the case of an emergency. In many cases, insurance will cover an emergency but will only reimburse you once you get home, so you have to pay out of pocket while there, keep the receipts and file afterwards. This actually happened to my family. We were vacationing in Jamaica and my son cut his head after falling getting out of the shower. We had to go to an emergency clinic and pay 100% out of pocket. The insurance company would not promise whether or not they would pay, and in the end they did pay as an out of network expense, but there you have it. By the way, Harry was completely fine. If you are traveling internationally, know what your health care coverage is and make a plan just in case you have to see a doctor while you are traveling.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to all of you, my Financial Grownup friends, for joining us. If you like the podcast, please help us grow, please, by sharing with your friends, and take a moment to leave a review as well. We read every one and they really mean the world to us, and they help us get discovered. Big thanks to Work Optional author Tanja Hester for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Grant Sabatier was ready to retire at age 30 with over a million dollars saved - in large part by being mindful of his big expenses. The the author of "Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” shocked many followers by moving to New York City, one of the most expensive cities in the world. 

In Grant's money story you will learn:

• The reason behind Grant's controversial to move from Chicago to the more expensive NYC- despite it's impact on his FIRE goals

• How much more expensive NYC really is compared to Chicago if you apply Grant's money strategies

• Why he feels NYC lifestyle justifies the higher cost

• One thing he loves that is actually less expensive in NYC than it was in Chicago

• The surprising differences he found in cost of living between the two cities.

In Grant’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels that "money only matters when you can live a life you love"

• The things you can do to retire in 10-20 years or less

• Why he feels that cutting out the small things that bring us joy isn't necessarily the best way to save

• The best areas in budgeting you can save your money in

In Grant's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The exact questions he asks himself-and you should before making a purchase to determine it's true cost and value

• Where to find resources to make the calculations yourself

In My Take you will learn:

• How using a calculator can help to change your mindset

• Why it's important to not get caught up in the labels and trends

Episode links:

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Financial Freedom book trailer

• Financial Freedom podcast

Check out Grant's websites -

• Millennial Money

• Financial Freedom Book

Follow Grant!

• Instagram @MillennialMoneyCom and @FinancialFreedom

• LinkedIn

• Twitter @MillennialMoney

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Speaker 1:
What kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is, okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. So excited about this episode. Amazing guests we have here, Grant Sabatier. He is the author of the new book Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. That sounds pretty good. He is also known as the creator of Millennial Money and as you will hear, he went from having just a couple of bucks to his name to being a millionaire. In fact, having more than a million bucks by following the principles of the FIRE movement. By the way that stands for financial independence, retire early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant also came up with a lot of new ideas of his own that he put to work to reach his goals. He recently did something very controversial and surprising to many people in the FIRE movement. In fact, I personally was totally caught off guard and thought I heard it wrong because it just didn't make sense that he of all people would do this. More in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick hello to everyone. We have a lot of new listeners in the new year, so welcome. We interview high achievers here on the Financial Grownup Podcast who share many stories that we can all learn from along with everyday money tips. And we keep it short so you can stack a few episodes together to fit your commute, your workout or whatever you're up to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Grant's unbelievable story. So many takeaways from this interview and then from his book. Again, can't believe he actually did this. Here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant Sabatier, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Grant Sabatier:
Hey, glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations. You book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need is about to be a huge best seller. We were just talking offline about all the big plans you have, including your trailer just came out. I just watched it. So cool. Congrats on all.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. It's been a long time coming. It's like a two year plus project and I'm just super excited to have it released worldwide and hear and get the feedback and help as many people as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is the latest step on a journey you've been on since going from having I think what $2.26 to your name, something like that, to having $1.25 million. You skyrocketed to fame with your Millennial Money website.

Grant Sabatier:
I feel, even though I'm only 33, I feel like I'm kind of in the bonus years of my life in a lot of ways and it's super cool and I'm grateful for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I hope every year feels like a bonus year for you. This has been a big year. I want to talk and you agreed to share his story about a controversial decision that you recently made that sounds contradictory to a lot of the things that people in the FIRE movement, which is financial independence, retire early, which you're part of advocate. You moved to New York City. My home. So welcome by the way.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not the most bargain place to be building up your financial nest egg Grant. What's going on? Tell us your money story.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, that's a great question. I've gotten that a lot recently. You're right. Compared to Chicago where I was living, where I became financially independent, New York City has about a 2.35X cost of living multiple, meaning things are about 2.35 times as expensive here than in Chicago. So based on that, you would expect to need at least double the amount of money.

Grant Sabatier:
But those are just statistics and one of the things that, I did quite a bit of preparation before I moved to New York City to get a sense for obviously what apartments cost and what food costs. And one of the things that I pretty quickly realized was you can make whatever life you want in New York City. Even though writ large, it's incredibly expensive. It's incredibly expensive to buy real estate here. It often doesn't make sense to buy real estate if you're going to be here for less than six or seven years.

Grant Sabatier:
But from a rental perspective, there's actually an incredible amount of affordable rentals that I was able to find. Food is actually categorically less expensive than in Chicago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. Good example, I'm a huge raspberry fan. I eat them every morning. I love them. It's just something that I know the price of. And in Chicago it was about $4 for just a little bunch of raspberries. And a block and a half from my apartment in New York City. I'm able to get them for $1.50.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, tell me, let me stop you here. So why did you move to, a lot of people might be surprised because to achieve financial freedom, a lot of people, including you, talk about yeah, watch the little things, but really watch the big things. Like housing, like your food bill, the big things. And yet you upsized the biggest thing to some degree. People often move to less expensive locations, at least while they're building up their nest egg, which I understand you already did.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us about the decision to move to a more expensive city, or more expensive in most ways. Why and what it's been like.

Grant Sabatier:
So actually, ironically, I've been in New York City six months and I spent, I think it's 17, I keep track of all this stuff about 17 to 20 percent less than the previous six months that I lived in Chicago. So it's actually been less expensive to live in New York City. My rent here is less than the mortgage payment that I was paying on my apartment.

Grant Sabatier:
I moved to New York City because I lived in Chicago for pretty much all of the last 14 years. I went to college in Chicago and was more than ready for a change. I always wanted to live in New York City. I grew up on the east coast. I wanted to come back. I don't know if I'm going to be a New York City lifer, but because the book's coming out, the proximity to media, I'm a huge fan of the Catskills and the Hudson River Valley. I think they're incredibly beautiful. I'd visited them a few times. And in fact I spend quite a bit of time there now.

Grant Sabatier:
And so for me, obviously housing, transportation and food, that's where the average American spends 70% or more of their income. And if you can control those three expense categories, then you can really kind of win the game. And so the most important thing with my move was affordable housing.

Grant Sabatier:
It's important to mention that I'm already financially independent. And so I became financially independent in 2015 and so I've had a pretty solid market since then. My investments have done well. So now I have more than enough money, so I'm able to hedge in that way. I think it certainly would be more difficult if I had started my financial independence journey in New York City. I had a lot of advantages to doing it in Chicago, which is writ large, more affordable. But because I'm already financially independent, I have more advantages.

Grant Sabatier:
But with that being said, the past few years, I never spend with my wife more than $50,000 a year. I'm on pace based on the way I've set up my life to probably spend in the $45,000, $48,000 range in 2019 in New York City.

Bobbi Rebell:
You mentioned that people have questioned this decision, including me. Do you feel that you've had to kind of defend it as part of the FIRE movement?

Grant Sabatier:
Oh, definitely. I think there's a little bit of a judgment inherent in some of the community and to me FIRE, it can really mean whatever you want it to mean and that's the beautiful thing about it. It's what kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Grant Sabatier:
I think the lesson is that you have so much more control. I mean, money really only matters if it helps you live a life that you love. I think that that idea is so central to money. And if you're not happy with your life, if you're stressed out and you're paying too much rent, you have the ability to move to a different neighborhood, get a roommate for a while to downsize.

Grant Sabatier:
I mean, when I was becoming financially independent in Chicago, I moved from a $1,500 a month apartment to an $800 a month apartment and yes, it was smaller. Yes it was crappier. But I was able to sleep better at night because I knew I was investing that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's to your everyday money tip and this could apply to small items or to big decisions. And one thing I liked in your book, as you do a lot of math and you have a special way of calculating purchases or things you're considering buying that can really illustrate the impact of different choices. Go for it.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. So in the book, in one of the chapters, Is it Worth it, I outline 11 questions that you can ask yourself. If you go to financialfreedom book.com, you can download these 11 questions, keep them on your phone. You can print them out. And the questions are built around helping you figure out is it worth buying. And some of the trade offs that are in the book that you can calculate are how much of your life did you trade for this purchase? And one of those things, we can go to a car example, a $40,000 car if you're making $20 per hour after you factor in taxes and commuting time, it's gonna take you 2000 hours, an entire year of your life to afford that car. And on the flip side, you also lose the potential of that $40,000 to grow, which is even more profound.

Grant Sabatier:
And one of the things that I found, because I was interested in buying a $40,000 car, is that I would actually have to work almost six years longer in the future in order to afford that car because of the lost opportunity of not investing that money.

Grant Sabatier:
The best way to save money is just not to spend it because there's kind of, I call it the net effective spending, where whenever you buy anything, not only are you trading the time that you spent to make that money, but you're also trading the ability for that money to grow and the freedom that it buys you in the future. And that's kind of a mindset shift because I actually figured out that every $100 that I would spend, you know you go out to a nice meal and have a couple of drinks with your partner or with a friend and you know, say you spend $100. I figured out that I'd actually have to work four more days in the future in order to afford $100 purchase.

Grant Sabatier:
And so every time I spent $100, I was sacrificing for days of future freedom. And I literally went around and I have a calculator that I built called the Financial Freedom Calculator at financialfreedombook.com where you can put in all your own numbers and it'll tell you whether it's a $5 cup of coffee or a $40,000 car. It'll tell you in your own life how much freedom, how much time you're actually trading for that purchase.

Bobbi Rebell:
One are the things that I love about your book is all of the tools that it has and the different links. So it's kind of like the book will live on beyond the printed book, although some people will listen to it and read it on electronic books. But I love those tools because it makes it very granular and very specific and user friendly. Tell us a little bit more about the book and where people can find more about you and all your social channels grant. We love to follow you.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, so financialfreedombook.com is the best place to learn about the book. On the book website you can learn all about the book. You can also use all the tools and the book for free before you even buy the book. So there are nine calculators on there. They all work on your phone. I already have people who've read the book and they've bookmarked them and they're going into the store and they're using the calculators, which is super cool. So financialfreedombook.com. It's available wherever books are sold. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, your favorite local book seller. So I guess just go check it out. It's a bright blue cover with a bird on the front.

Grant Sabatier:
Social channels, you should check out the book Instagram account that I just launched. You can follow me around the world. I'm going to be visiting 40 different cities this spring and 17 countries in the fall so @financialfreedom on Instagram. And then hit me up, millennialmoney.com is my website. At millennialmoney on Twitter, those are the best ways to reach me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. And I also love your new book trailer. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes as well. So thank you Grant.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you Bobbi. This is a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so glad we were able to talk about those calculators. They are a good thing in this case.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one. I'm not always a huge fan of big budgets and counting up every dollar that you spend because it can feel so restrictive and you feel deprived. Almost like being on a diet. It is kind of like being on a money diet. And no one's going to feel good about that. And when you feel bad, at a certain point you're going to reach your breaking point and that's going to be the edge. You're going to fall off the bandwagon just like you do with the food diet. And hopefully as we get through January, we won't be falling off the bandwagon with all of our goals. We're all working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, taking the time however, to use a calculator like the ones that grant has put together to figure out the relationship between your purchases and their true cost and your life can totally change your mindset. I remember when Starbucks started putting calorie counts on the food in that counter, all those yummy cookies and goodies and stuff. So I love this yellow icing lemon cake. They have it there still in many of these Starbucks. I'm still obsessed with them as you can tell, but I don't really get them anymore because even though I always knew they were high calorie, I didn't really see the number. It didn't really register with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then they put the calories there. It's over 400 calories for this little slice of cake, which is not going to fill you up. And that visual, that number, calculating the percentage of that, of the number of calories that I'm supposed to eat per day and knowing what a high percentage was going to go to something that really didn't give me that much bang for my calorie buck really motivated me to change my behavior. I'm far from perfect when it comes to choosing the snacks, but I am more likely now to go for a protein box where it may not have the absolute lowest calories, but I know at least I'm going to get some nutrition for my choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it's the same way when it comes to money. When you really calculate the true cost as Grant points out, it helps.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number Twitter, do not get caught up in labels and trends to the point where you don't do what you want to do. Grant is managing New York City on his own terms, but he's honest. There are places that he could live where he would reach his financial goals faster and without having to watch his finances as tightly, but he is putting his life first.

Bobbi Rebell:
Never live your life backwards or for someone else's idea of what they think you should be doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you Grant. So happy for all he has achieved including his first book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. Go order it now. As an author, guys, I have to stress buying it on preorder really makes a difference at hitting the bestseller lists and all that comes with it. So if you like Grant and you think you're going to like the book, go right now and preorder it so you get it right when it comes out and you also help Grant a little bit in the process as they say.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to have a link for it in the show notes as well, and also meaningful you. Be in touch. BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter and our email address is hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Grant Sabatier for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.