Vera Gibbons:
Shane Snow and his Contently Co-Founders had a booming business- that almost completely crashed after they found themselves strapped for cash and struggling to meet payroll. Plus the nutritional bang-for-the buck of popular diets, including the Keto diet and ramen noodles.
In Shane’s money story you will learn:
-How he and his partners overlooked a key metric as they grew their business, Contently
-The importance of cash flow vs receivables
-The solution the company came up with that saved them, when they only had 2 weeks of cash left on hand
-How the experience impacted Shane’s personal financial plans and habits
In Shane’s money lesson you will learn:
-To pay attention to revenue, but also when it received as well as the net profit
-How to apply his business lessons to your personal financial life
In Shane’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Shane made a nutritional change for health and efficiency
-The financial benefits that came along with the experiment
In my take you will learn:
-Why reading at least a book a week is a habit of many successful people
-My advice on how to read a book a week, starting with Shane Snow’s “Dream Teams”
-How removing every day decisions, like food and clothing choices, can free up your mind to be more focused on other things
Episode Links
Learn more about Shane Snow at shanesnow.com
Buy (and Review!) Shane’s book “Dream Teams”
Buy Shane’s book “Smart Cuts
Follow Shane!
Twitter: @shanesnow
LinkedIn ShanedSnow
Instagram: @ManEatingRobot
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Shane Snow:
We made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Close call for our guest but, spoiler alert, they did escape that near-death experience. The company, Contently. The voice you were hearing was co-founder, Shane Snow, who just released his latest book, Dream Teams. Before we get to more about Shane and the book, a quick welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to those who are returning. We try to keep our episodes to just around 15 minutes because we know you guys are so busy, but you can also, of course, binge if you're a commuter or you just have a little bit more time some days. The idea is that you invest the time and get an inspiring money story from a high achiever that gives you value and you also get an everyday money tip that you can put to work in your life or your work, right away.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, you're going to get that here. Shane Snow is an entrepreneur, a journalist, an author, so much more. I wanted to have him on to talk about his most recent bestseller and that is, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. It's tough to get along, teams are hard. It's sometimes just easier to work alone and he talks a lot about that. Shane jokes that he hates business books, but this book is really more about people and stories and things that we can really integrate into our own lives. I learned a lot of things about history and the world that I thought I knew about, but there were nuances that people have never really shared publicly. And Shane is a master at research and revealing the full story when we didn't even know that we had part of the story. Here is Shane Snow.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shane Snow. You're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Shane Snow:
Thank you, I feel like a grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're definitely a grownup, you have so many accomplishments. The latest one, and we're going to get to all of them later but the latest one is your new book, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. And you've had quite a week promoting it, lots of accolades. Congrats.
Shane Snow:
Thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot, a long journey.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's basically of stories about how different teams work together, and often don't work together.
Shane Snow:
Yes, it's about that paradox. That normally group work is much, much harder than we think it's going to be, to the point that actually working by yourself is often more productive than group work. And yet sometimes we change the world when we work together.
Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that changed the world is your company that you started eight years ago, part of team, you're a co-founder. Tell us about the company. And your money story has to do with what happened when you weren't really watching all the numbers, just some of the numbers.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. So the company started about eight years ago. The business model changed, it grew into something-
Bobbi Rebell:
And the name of the company is?
Shane Snow:
Contently.
Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Shane Snow:
And it grew into a much bigger business than we thought it would, which is great. And initially the first piece of the business that we build was this marketplace for getting freelance journalists and photographers work and getting them paid. And a lot of the clients were brands, so it was this new branded content marketing thing. So Pepsi wants to hire some reporters to go cover a conference and write about it for their blog, that sort of thing.
Shane Snow:
So what happened, we started getting excited because the business was working. We're getting lots of work for these journalists and lots of clients, and we made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We were looking at all the money that our clients were on the hook for paying us and realized that we had this runway for six months before we would need to raise money from investors again, or maybe figure out how to get profitable by then. So things were going great, but we then looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left. Nobody had been paying attention to cash flow. The fact that we actually pay these creative people who do the work for the clients and the clients take a long time to pay us, basically we were floating all of this money. And nobody had bothered to ... We didn't have a finance person, we were a start up.
Bobbi Rebell:
So basically there was a lag between the receivables and the cash that you were actually paying out.
Shane Snow:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically acting like a bank.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. And the more successful we were, the worse it got. And so thank god someone checked and we were like, "Oh, no. We have two weeks left before we literally got out of business because of this problem." And so we founders cut our salaries so that we could put that toward payroll for our employees and we just sort of prayed for a miracle. And the miracle did come, but basically we asked our customers if they'd be willing to pay us upfront for what they excepted to be paying these freelancers. And basically everyone said yes and then we actually got a positive cash float, like a cash carry I guess?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.
Shane Snow:
Where our cash flow was so good that we could grow the company even better. But that was just sort of this miracle. Also we-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you worked together as a team. You worked together as a team and figured it out, right?
Shane Snow:
Right. Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
And investors.
Shane Snow:
Yes, yeah. We asked the clients if they would do that and they all said yes and we got our investors to sort of float us for a few more weeks. But I learned this as sort of a personal lesson, that even through it's sort of obvious, that cash flow can kill you basically. And so I've started paying a lot more attention to my cash flow and my personal finances, as a result of this.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners, regarding your money story?
Shane Snow:
Pay attention to all of the numbers, not just the fun ones. The profit number and their income, that's the funnest number, but you really need to pay attention to-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's really not profit, it was revenue was coming.
Shane Snow:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
The revenue.
Shane Snow:
[inaudible 00:06:20].
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Shane Snow:
Right. The revenue number, exactly. But even in your personal finances I think, paying attention to just the salary number is not actually the one to pay attention to. And when you're getting money in and when you're paying money out is sometimes more important.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip because this is a really good one. I am personally very curious about this because I keep hearing about this and it's a little bit experimental. But let me let you tell it, go ahead.
Shane Snow:
Okay. So I really like doing personal experiments and gonzo journalism, so one time for GQ I ate only this "healthy", in quotes, ice cream for ten days and lost a bunch of weight. And anyways, so I like doing stuff like that. And there's this stuff called Soylent that came out maybe five, six years ago, that's basically like a meal replacement drink, kind of like the goop on the Matrix. It's not supposed to taste like really anything and it's supposed to have everything your body needs.
Bobbi Rebell:
Pure efficiency.
Shane Snow:
Exactly. And the guy who made it, I actually interviewed him about it years ago. The guy who made it, his reason for doing it was so that he wouldn't have to think about cooking or food. It sounds like the most boring thing ever, he was like, "I don't want to think about food, so I made this replacement food." It's interesting. But there's a version of it, I think a competitive company, called Ketolent, which is that, it's like a drink that instead of eating food you just drink this drink all day. And it's chocolate flavored, which is more delicious, but it also puts you in ketosis, which is like a low-carb basically, where your metabolism changes and it's very good for-
Bobbi Rebell:
Are you hungry?
Shane Snow:
No. So that's the thing is ketosis, it changes your metabolism. So that instead of burning basically sugar, it burns lipids, fat, and that's a much more stable energy source. The upside of this, so I started doing this for working out and it's good for blood sugar levels and all that, but the upside of drinking Ketolent instead of food is it's a lot cheaper than going to lunch every day. And you know, you need to take like-
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you eat it for every meal? Is it like a full on thing?
Shane Snow:
Yeah. I mix up two big bottles of it every day. Like on weekends, I'll go to brunch, you can't do it every day or you'd go out of your mind. But you eat it every day or-
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much does it cost?
Shane Snow:
It ends up being something like eight buck a day. If you want to do the pre-mixed ones, which is even more convenient, then it's a little bit more but it's still ... It actually reminds me, I had this friend, one of my best friends in the world, in college he was trying to micro-optimize calories for percent, or whatever, in his diet. And he figured out this optimum combination of oatmeal and rice and he was miserable but he saved so much money.
Bobbi Rebell:
People stereotype that people that want to save money, they eat only ramen noodles while they're paying down their debt. I wonder what the nutritional value per serving, per cost, is for ramen noodles versus this keto diet and all the other diets. That's just, I don't know, interesnting.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. Well, getting it right, because you don't want your brain to not function.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Shane Snow:
I imagine that eating only ramen noodles is very bad also for your digestion I bet.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, wait. Let's talk about your book.
Shane Snow:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because I'm obsessed, I literally meant to just read enough to kind of get through the interview but I read the whole thing. I spent a little over four hours, you spent four years writing Dream Teams. One of my many favorite things about this is that it's almost like a suspense thriller because it told these stories where there's always these zingers at the end of each story.
Shane Snow:
Yeah. So I wanted to explore that paradox, that we say that two heads are better than one and, yeah, all of these things that you just said. And it turns out that research shows that's usually not true, and anyone that has worked in a group project at school knows that sometimes it's much easier to just do it on your own rather than in the group. And the bigger a team gets in business, the slower things get, the more communication is a pain, but there's all sorts of other psychology that basically says that group dynamics get in the way of productivity and progress. And so I wanted to explore that and kind of what does science and research tell us about our common conceptions about working together, so that we can actually fulfill that promise of becoming better than the sum of our parts.
Shane Snow:
So it's a non-fiction, science, and business book, essentially. But I hate business books and I-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I don't feel like this seems like a business book because you have everywhere from Wu-tang Clan ... Did I say that right?
Shane Snow:
Yeah, you did.
Bobbi Rebell:
The Russian hockey team, which, by the way, there's a zinger in there that I did not know. This whole miracle on ice with the US team.
Shane Snow:
Oh, yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know if people knew what really happened on the Russian side but let's not spoil it for them, but you gotta read that one.
Shane Snow:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
The Wright Brothers, the importance of play in being successful, and why a lot of mergers fail. And even you've got George Takei in there and how pop culture and people seeing things be normal changed our cultural expectations.
Shane Snow:
Well, thank you. What I wanted to do is talk about these things and the real research and the real science that can change our minds and, in some cases, blow our minds, about this. But I wanted to do it through stories that are fun, even if you don't care about the lessons. That for me, I wanted to write the kind of book that I would like to read, which would be more cinematic with surprises and twists and stories that I was excited enough to learn about that I would actually want to write about them too. So I'm glad that ... It is a nice compliment that you got through it so fast and enjoyed the stories.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone will get through it so fast and then they can read your previous book, Smartcuts, so it's all good. So Shane, tell us where people can find out more about you and where they can follow you on social media, because I know your selective in your social media.
Shane Snow:
I'm pretty selective in my social media. So shanesnow.com has links to everything. And well, anyone that's listening to your podcast, I can give them my Instagram. It's not Shane Snow, it's maneatingrobot.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Shane Snow:
Yeah, of course. It's self-explanatory, I think.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Shane Snow:
I actually really like maneatingrobot because depending on the punctuation it's either a man eating a robot or it's a robot eating a man.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I have to about about that.
Shane Snow:
Man, eating robot.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ah, ah. I'm a little slow on the uptake. All right, Shane. Thank you so much, this has been great.
Shane Snow:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on the book and all your success.
Shane Snow:
I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, pretty rare to go from bad cash flow management at start ups to the financial versus nutritional value of keto diets and ramen noodles. Bu there you have it, the wonderful Shane Snow, so much fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. In Shane's book, Dream Teams, Shane has a lot of data. One of the data points that he talks about is statistics linking the fact that the most successful people in the world are also what I would call intentional readers, meaning they read at least a book a week and make a point of it. They really carve that time out of their day to make sure that they read because that's where they feel that they learn about the world and become interesting people. You're busy, I'm busy, we're all busy, but they're busy and they find time. I'm right there with you, I know it's hard, but try an experiment, maybe with Shane's book. I read it on my Kindle and it said, for example, that it would be over five hours, but because there were so many notes from Shane's research at the end it was really maybe four and a half, let's say.
Bobbi Rebell:
So this week, this is my challenge to you guys, pick up Dream Teams, you can do it with another book but Dream Teams was good. On your calendar, block 45 minutes either early morning or before bedtime, do it before you turn on the TV, before you reach for the phone and start going through social media, set it an alarm, book it as an appointment in whatever you use to book your appointments. By dedicating 45 minutes-ish, a night, for the week, you'll be done by the end of the week and you'll probably have some interesting takeaways from the book as well and feel like you really got value from that time, versus just mindlessly scrolling through your feeds on your social media. Maybe then go write a nice review for Shane, authors love reviews. I love reviews, you could write a review for the podcast too. But consider making it a habit to go through and read a book a week, once you do it, you might really enjoy it and it'll stick and it'll be a great thing adding to your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Shane talked about how his keto-loving friend liked the idea of not having to think about what to eat, it just removed a decision. So removing decisions that are discretionary is something that a lot of leaders do. Consider that, maybe have the same breakfast every day, or buy all the same socks. Whatever it is that removes a decision, that removes having to do that one more thing each day. My son's school, for example, next year has uniforms, so that's going to be a new thing for us. He's pretty good in the mornings anyway, but it's going to be interesting to see how removing the decision of what to wear in the morning impacts his morning routine and, in turn, impacts my morning routine.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we hope that you are making Financial Grownup part of your routine. If you like the promo videos that you see on social media, share them, you may even win one for your company or yourself. And just tell a friend if you like the show, and let them know so we can grow our community. If you want to be a guest, you have a great money story or money tip you want to share, tell us by emailing at info@gfinancialgrownup.com, that's info@financialgrownup.com, and you may be a guest on the show. Follow us on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook I am @bobbirebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Shane Snow has come a long way from his cash flow crunch, so thank you Shane for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup, with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Investment advisor Andy Wang, host of the Inspired Money podcast, stepped out of his comfort zone, tried something that scared him, and connected with new clients and friends including celebrities like Christie Brinkley.
In Andy’s money story you will learn:
-How Andy balances his hobbies with his growing business and podcast
-The strategy Andy uses to overcome his fear of trying new things
-Why he originally stopped guitar lessons after just 4 sessions- and what brought him back to music
-What is Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar?
-The big call he got from Christie Brinkley’s team
In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:
-How having a hobby that opens him up to new experiences grows his social and business circle
-Why he believes the most successful people are those who force themselves out of their comfort zones
-The quote from Tina Fey that inspires Andy
In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How to recover from mistakes
-Specifically what to do if you own a stock that is not performing- and most importantly what to do next if you still believe in the stock
-How to keep up with your investments and automate them so you can be free to do other things
In my take you will learn:
-tips for things you can automate in addition to bill paying and investing
-how to get more sleep, to be more productive in business
-the importance of letting clients see you outside of transactional and business settings in order to build longer and stronger relationships
If you want to win a promotional video for you or your business- remember to share them when you see them on social media!
And if you have a money story and every day money tip you would like to share- write us at info@financialgrownup.com
and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of the podcast!
Episode Links
Learn about Andy’s company at http://www.runnymede.com/
Listen to his podcast at http://blog.runnymede.com/topic/podcast
On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/runnymedecap/
Follow Andy
Twitter @RunnymedeCap
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/taropatch
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/inspiredmoney.fm/
Transcription
Andy Wang:
One day, I was driving to work and my phone rang. I answered, and the person said, "This is Christie Brinkley's office calling. Are you available to play a private event?" So long story short, I played a small, intimate event for Christie and about 10 of her friends and family. It was a crazy night.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So I don't know about you, but I'm pretty happy just kind of staying in my comfort zone. But let's be real: It gets boring and staying still is also not usually a really good business plan or career advancement strategy. So we're all in for a year with this guest coming up. But first, a quick welcome to anyone new that is joining us for the first time. You're going to notice the episodes are relatively short, especially compared to other money, business, entrepreneur-focused shows out there. It's done very much on purpose. We're going for about 15 minutes, give or take. The idea is that, you can listen between things, when you have a sliver of free time, and walk away feeling like you learned something of value, and hopefully, smiled a bit, too. But we also know, a lot of our listeners like to binge on a few episodes at a time, so if you're commuting or running errands or something that takes a little bit longer, you can listen to two, three, four episodes and get an hour of content. So we just want to be flexible and work with you. And of course, welcome back to our regular listeners. Thank you. If you have not hit Subscribe, please do so, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and there are some really amazing ones coming up. So I'm exciting to share them with all of you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to Andrew Wang. He's an Investment Advisor at Runnymede Capital. But you may know him as the host of the Inspired Money Podcast, or he may have been the entertainment at a party you went to. Really. Listen. Here is Andy Wang.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy Wang, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Andy Wang:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. I can't believe that I'm here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Finally. I know, I've been trying to get you on for a while. You're very busy, you're the host of the Inspired Money Podcast. You also have your own company, Runnymede Capital Management, the only, thank you very much. And you are acclaimed as an advisor and an influencer, so much so, that you are on the Investopedia 100 Most Influential Advisors. So this is an honor, Andy.
Andy Wang:
The honor is mine. I'm still trying to convince all of my coworkers that when I'm on Facebook, that I'm working.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're always working, Andy, even when you're having fun, and even when you're doing your hobbies, one of which involves getting over your fears, learning new skills, and even meeting some celebrities. Tell us your money story.
Andy Wang:
Yeah. It goes back through, you and I have talked about this before, "How can we do so many things?" We all have to-do lists that are a mile long. It's important for us to find and make time for family, hobbies, and to decompress. So my Financial Grownup story is about doing something that scares you. It takes me back to when I was in high school. Remember the days when there were music videos on MTV?
Bobbi Rebell:
I do.
Andy Wang:
I always wanted to learn guitar, so the summer after graduation, I mentioned this to my dad. And without hesitation, he replied, "Well, go for it. Don't just think about it." So that was great advice. I took four lessons, and I never aspired to play in front of everybody. I had the worst stage fright. If I had to perform in front of a group, my hands got clammy, they shook. I literally got a stomachache. So years later, because my wife was born and raised in Hawaii, and over many trips back there, I fell in love with Hawaiian music and the Hawaiian culture. So there just aren't that many people in the New York Area who play Hawaiian slack key guitar.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is Hawaiian slack key guitar? Just so we know.
Andy Wang:
Hawaiian slack key guitar is a folk tradition that was born in Hawaii in the late 1800s. The legend is this: The locals didn't know how to tune the guitars, so they slacked or loosened the strings to suit their vocal range and their music. So I slacked my guitar strings, and I would get invited to play at weddings, parties, corporate events. And I had to get over my fear.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you got over your fear, and you started playing. And what's interesting is, this led to a bunch of different things. It led to celebrities, it led to new business. Tell us more.
Andy Wang:
Yeah. One day, I was driving to work and my phone rang. Even though I didn't recognize the number, I answered, and the person said, "This is Christie Brinkley's office calling. Are you available to play a private event?" So long story short, I played a small, intimate event for Christie and about 10 of her friends and family. She invited me to join them for dinner afterwards. She's just a super, super-nice person. It was a crazy night. The financial takeaway, I think is this: Our personal networks and connections that we make to people, that benefits our business, or benefits the work that I do. And when people can see me out of context: not wearing a tie, not being in my office, they see me wearing an aloha shirt, playing guitar with my family, it enables me to make those human connections, and meet all kinds of interesting people. After all, music is a language.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not about business that day. It's about starting the relationships that eventually, some of them, or maybe friends of theirs, or acquaintance of theirs, become your clients, in a very holistic way.
Andy Wang:
That's exactly right. It's about making friends. And just meeting people, and making those connections.
Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us, for our listeners, what is the takeaway for them? How can they apply this to their own lives, and to their own finances?
Andy Wang:
Well, my avocation has taught me that we can live richer lives by forcing ourselves past our comfort zones. Whether it's learning an instrument, starting a podcast, investing your 401(k), sometimes it's as simple as just opening up and reviewing your financial statements. I mean, we always hear the stories that, in a bear market, people don't want to even look at their financial statement. So pushing yourself to do things that scares you can really lead to magic happening. Tina Fey has a quote that I love, and it's, "The fun is always on the other side of yes." Surveys of millionaires support this, too, because there's a common characteristic that millionaires share. And that's having an openness to take on new experience and try new things. If your boss asks you to take on a new project or to lead a team, the answer should be, "Yes."
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that people that try new things, I'm kind of stating the obvious. But I guess, why is it that people who try new things are, in your mind, more successful?
Andy Wang:
Having a willingness to try new things, it's like, they say, "Fake it until you make it." You have to be open to new opportunities. Sometimes, these are opportunities that you would even imagine yourself doing. But by saying yes and to committing to it, that's how you're going to learn. I mean, that's how we all learn.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. But let's go to your everyday money tip, because it's kind of the reverse of commitment, and committing to your ideas. It's also kind of being okay taking a more, I don't know, kind of stepping back a little and being okay with being, maybe wrong sometimes?
Andy Wang:
Yes. My money tip: We all make mistakes, and when you're investing, my money tip is to cut your losses. I took this simple rule from a successful hedge fund manager. Too often, people let losers ride, in hope that they'll come back. We all have those dogs in our portfolio. And the reality is that, losses have a tendency to grow. It's almost like a disease or cancer in our portfolios. So if you really life something and want to be a long-term owner, be willing to enter, exit, and re-enter again if necessary. The fund manager who taught me this, he's willing to buy and sell a position, five, six, seven times. So if you cut losses, let the winners ride, you'll set yourself up for long-term gains, and lessen your term pain.
Bobbi Rebell:
So just to pull something out of there. So what you're saying is, if you still believe in a stock and it's going down, that doesn't mean you have to ride it to the very bottom. You could sell it, take some loss, and then re-buy it at a lower level. It doesn't mean you don't still believe in the company necessarily, you're just not okay with the price, where it's going in the short term. Is that where you're getting at?
Andy Wang:
Correct. The whole idea is that, if you pick a company that you love, you may not know the precise timing that's going to make sense, like, the optimal time to buy it. So you have to be willing to buy it, but then, set a limit, so that, if it goes down and it's not working in your favor, that you have to be willing to cut it. And you may come back and re-purchase that stock, but you just, you want to eliminate the potential for losses to grow into bigger losses. And then, you're stuck, because you're kind of handcuffed, because then you're not sure: Should you wait, or should you not?
Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, what are some tactics that people can use to actually do this?
Andy Wang:
Well, my advice is that, people should pay like, pick a number. Pick a number that you're willing to stomach. Sometimes, that could be, if it goes down 5 percent, if it goes down 10 percent, and then, in your brokerage account, you could set up a stop loss order to automatically trigger if the stock hits that level.
Bobbi Rebell:
In order words, you're automating it and taking the emotion out of it.
Andy Wang:
That's correct. You can set it up so that this could be happening while you're taking a nap somewhere, or even if you're on the beach: If the stock goes down 5 percent, 10 percent, whatever your limit is, you're controlling the amount of loss that you're willing to let that get to.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much, Andy. So tell us more about what's going on at Inspired Money. Tell us about, we haven't actually talked much about it, because the title is actually very meaningful to what you talk about.
Andy Wang:
Yeah, someone told me recently that money is not something that they associated with inspiration. So on the Inspired Money Podcast, we really try to explore money conversations with successful people on how to be more purposeful, more intentional, and make your money more meaningful. And I'm having a lot of fun with it, because I'm talking to such a diverse group of people, ranging from entrepreneurs to those in non-profit. I've talked to actors, I've talked to screenwriters, musicians. I mean, we all have to live and deal with money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm waiting for the Christie Brinkley episode, so that'll be one to watch. Right?
Andy Wang:
My fingers and toes are crossed, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where everyone can find you.
Andy Wang:
And thanks so much. Listeners can find me at Runnymede.com or @RunnymedeCap on Twitter. That's R-U-N-N-Y-M-E-D-E. We help people to plan for retirement, protect and grow their investments. We also help business owners to set up and manage their company 401(k) plans. And then, for Inspired Money, you can find me at InspiredMoney.fm, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Andy. I really appreciate you coming on.
Andy Wang:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that advice from Andy, my friends: Take the emotion out. So let's talk about that. Financial Grownup Tip number 1: We automate lots of things, just like Andy suggested. Stock sales is one example. Paying bills is another thing. But it's just good to automate things that we don't always make rational decisions about. So in addition to stocks and bill paying and those kind of things that we think about automating, I'm going to go to something that is non-financial, but that does have financial consequences if we don't pay attention to it. And that is sleep, and getting a good night's sleep. You know what we can all do, to get a better good night's sleep? Set a sleep timer on your media. It can be the television and yes, you can put your phone or your computer on a timer as well, to go into sleep mode. In fact, there's tons of apps to even measure the quality of your sleep.
Bobbi Rebell:
But I think the most important thing is to not be actively using the actual devices. And sometimes, it's really hard to do that. So set a sleep time. Think about how many nights we intend to watch just one TV show, one half-an-hour TV show, and you know they all go rolling right into the next show. So it's really hard to do that. Or we say we're going to check our social media for a limited time, and then, you look up at the clock, if you even do look up at the clock. And then, "Oh, my gosh, it's past midnight." So let's automate that, so that it goes off. And try to not turn it back on when it goes off, kind of like the snooze alarm in the morning. Just, when it goes off, let it go off. We know that if we get more and better-quality sleep, we're going to function better. We're going to perform better at work, at our jobs, with our businesses. And in the end, that will result in a better chance at hiring profits and more success. So let's do it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number 2: Andy quoted Tina Fey as saying, "The fun, it's always on the other side of yes." And I would add, "The profit is on the other side of yes." Come from a place of "Yes." Don't forget to have fun. Keep an eye, though, on where the profit can be. If you say "No," there is zero chance of fun and zero chance of profit. Andy not only has a great side hustle from this skill playing Hawaiian slack key guitar, go Google it. After this is over, you can learn even more. He meets celebrities like Christie Brinkley, one-on-one. Super fun. And to be sure, he gets new business in an authentic way that bonds him to clients and makes them more likely to stay with him long-term, because they see what a great guy he is. They see him in a different context from just meeting him behind a desk in the office or through phone calls, or through other ways of communication, emails and all that stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, love hearing from all of you. Keep sharing our promo videos on social media for a chance to win one for your business, or just for you. And please rate and review Financial Grownup on Apple Podcasts, and of course, hit the Subscribe button, to make sure you don't meet any upcoming episodes. And tell your friends if you like it. We really love that the show is growing, and want to keep it that way. So make sure to tell everyone that you think would enjoy Financial Grownup. You can follow me @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Instagram, BobbiRebell1. Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. And of course, you can also go to my website, BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and sign up for our newsletter.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy is a true Financial Grownup, blending all that he loves together: family, friends, music, and his business. He is a great role model, so thank you, Andy for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.
Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.
In Carrie’s money story you will learn:
-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New York City!
-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000
-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding
-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”
-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable
-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones
-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!)
In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:
-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign
-How to determine the budget
-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals
-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures
-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time
-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value
-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies
In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her big negotiating strategy
-What she means when she says to hit the mute button
-How to use awkwardness to your advantage
-The secret to stalling as a strategy
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies
-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential
-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved.
To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!
Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!
EPISODE LINKS
Likeable.com
Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!
Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com
Get Carrie’s book Work it!
Follow Carrie!
Twitter @CarrieKerpen
Instagram @CarrieKerpen
Facebook Carrie Kerpen
Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!
Transcription
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?
Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.
Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.
Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.
Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-
Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.
Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?
Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.
Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.
Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.
Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.
Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?
Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.
Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.
Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.
Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending.
In Jill’s money story you will learn:
-The negotiation that went on during her divorce
-The advice her father gave her and the significance of his perspective
-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person
In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:
-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment
-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations.
-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses
In Jill’s money tip you will learn:
-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs
-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance
-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card
-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!
In My Take you will learn:
-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods
-How to know what to insure
-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance
Episode Links
Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/
Check out the Better Off Podcast
Follow Jill!
Twitter: @jillonmoney
Facebook Jill On Money
Instagram: @jillonmoney
Linkedin JillonMoney
YouTube Jill Schlesinger
Transcription
Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.
Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.
Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.
Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.
Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-
Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.
Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."
Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.
Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?
Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.
Bobbi Rebell:
True true.
Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.
Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.
Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?
Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."
Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.
Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.
Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?
Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.
Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.
Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.
Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.
Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.
In Scott’s money story you will learn:
-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans
-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision
-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how that impacted their financial wellbeing.
-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt
-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers
-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences
-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it
In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:
-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school
-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition.
-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.
In Scott’s money tip you will learn:
-How you can get medical school debt forgiven
In My Take you will learn:
-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven
-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness
-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt
EPISODE LINKS
Government website links:
Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor:
This is the article by Melanie Lockert.
You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!
You can consolidate your student debt, and get more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com
Follow Scott!
Twitter @radiology911
Transcription
Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.
Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?
Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?
Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?
Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?
Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.
Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.
Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?
Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?
Scott Steenburg:
No, no.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?
Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.
Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?
Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.
Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.
Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.
Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.
Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15..
In Paulette’s money story you will learn:
-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup
-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame
-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing
-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast
-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career
-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired
-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs
-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients
-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged
In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.
-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges
In Paulette’s money tip you will learn
-How she gets things for free!
-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community
-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups
-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”
-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls
-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy
Episode Links
Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com
Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!
Twitter: @PaulettePerhach
Instagram: @PaulettePerhach
Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/
Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !
If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com
If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell
Transcription
Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.
Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.
Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.
Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.
Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.
Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?
Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.
Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.
Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.
Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-
Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?
Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.
Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.
Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.
Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.
Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?
Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.
Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?
Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.
Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.
Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.
Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.
Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?
Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.
Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.
Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.
Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?
Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.
Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.
Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.
Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.
In Ron’s money story you will learn:
-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college
-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back
-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and get to the important information
-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes
-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”
In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:
-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now
-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid
-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time
-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out
In Ron’s money tip you will learn:
-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games
-How he is able to get discount tickets to events
-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets
-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!
In My Take you will learn:
-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand
-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business.
-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research
-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it.
EPISODE LINKS
Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com
Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber
Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled
Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”
Resources recommended by Ron Lieber
Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney
SavingforCollege.com
Follow Ron!!
Twitter @RonLieber
Instagram @ronlieber
Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor
StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!
Transcription
Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.
Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.
Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
No.
Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?
Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.
Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?
Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?
Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?
Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?
Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.
Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?
Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.
Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.
Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.
Bobbi Rebell:
So true.
Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?
Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?
Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.
Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.
Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.
In Kayla’s money story you will learn:
-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior
-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences.
-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year
-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced
-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account
-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21
-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture
-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource
In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:
-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending
-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques
-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending
In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:
-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions
-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances
-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected
-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA.
In My Take you will learn:
-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business
-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla.
Episode links:
kaylasloan.com
Twitter @kaylarsloan
Instagram @kaylarsloan
Facebook @krsloan
Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month
You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt
Transcription
Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.
Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.
Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.
Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.
Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.
Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.
Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.
Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?
Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.
Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?
Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?
Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.
Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.
Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.
Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?
Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?
Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.
Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?
Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?
Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.
Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.
Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?
Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.
Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life.
In Tina’s money story you will learn:
-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing
-Why the art meant so much to Tina
-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina
-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures
-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager
-How the art now has multi-generational significance
In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of commemorating milestones in life
-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing
-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact
In Tina’s money tip you will learn:
-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale
-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say
-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask
-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store
-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers
In my take you will learn:
-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did
-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone
-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time
-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy
EPISODE LINKS:
Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com
Follow Tina and Brandless!
Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife
Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless
Facebook: Tina Sharkey Brandlesslife
Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!
Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/
As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell. The following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad, so don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast, or download the app, it is the wise way to send money.
Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.
Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.
Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.
Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.
Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.
Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.
Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?
Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.
Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?
Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.
Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.
Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.
Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."
Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.
Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.
Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.
Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.
Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.
Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Entrepreneur and influencer Amanda Abella found out she was underpaid and often overlooked. But when she started playing hardball in negotiations with a really big potential client, she and her agent did not get the response they expected.
In Amanda’s money story you will learn:
-All the things Amanda does to have multiple income streams tied to her own personal brand
-The challenges Amanda faced after graduating from college during the recession
-How her first job laid the groundwork for her current career as an entrepreneur
-How she and her agent planned for their negotiation with a potential client
-The pivotal decision that grew her brand ambassador asking rate almost 7 times over by focusing on her unique skillset
-What is a rate sheet, and what brand ambassadors do for clients
-How Amanda researched what was a new market/line of work for her business
-If Amanda has any regrets or things she would do differently in hindsight
In Amanda’s lesson you will learn:
-How she battles her nerves in high stakes negotiations
-Why the number of social media followers are less important than many people believe
-How to get brand partnerships by knowing what matters most to them
In Amanda’s money tip you will learn:
-How to find out about unpromoted discounts at restaurants and fitness clubs like SoulCycle
-How much you can save by using them, even if they are not advertised
-Amanda’s favorite places to get discounts and freebies
-What Amanda got for free recently at SoulCycle
-Why Amanda keeps getting water bottles
In My Take you will learn:
-How to asses what you bring to the market, to better negotiate higher rates
-What to do if you don’t currently have skills that add value to, and command a premium from, the clients you want to attract
-Tips to be more confident in a negotiation
-How the power poses, recommended by Amy Cuddy can give you an instant confidence boost when you really need it
EPISODE LINKS
Amanda’s website: amandaabella.com
Amanda’s podcast
Amanda’s course on becoming an influencer
Follow Amanda!
Twitter @amandaabella
Instagram- make sure to check out her feed AND stories: @amandaabella
Facebook Amanda Abella
Soulcycle.com where Amanda loves to get free stuff!
Check out Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk!
Transcription
Speaker 1:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Speaker 2:
We went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't. Not even one peep. Not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you like making money and want to know how to make more and ideally from different sources you are in the right place with our guests. Before we get to her though we've been getting a lot of new listeners so I want to just welcome all of you to the show and of course thank you so much to our returning listeners. So glad you are here. And if you have friends or family that you think would enjoy the show please tell them about it. Also the video promos everyone is asking about. So glad you guys like them. If you want one for your business or just for you we're having a little competition. I'm going to make one for a listener. All you have to do is share the promo videos on social media, starting now until July 1st whoever shares the most wins. I will announce the winner the first week in July.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to my friend and guest Amanda Abella. Besides the fact that for some reason her Instagram stories seem to be more entertaining than most TV shows she's hard to label because she does as she says all the things. Amanda is all about multiple income streams. She has a book Make Money or Honey, an award winning blog. She has been a brand ambassador for big names like Capitol One and [Into It 00:02:05]. She teaches millennials how to be entrepreneurs and influencers just like her and she will soon be bringing back her popular podcast. Here is Amanda Abella.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amanda Abella, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Amanda Abella:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got to hang out and get to know each other recently at the Statement event in upstate New York. That was awesome.
Amanda Abella:
It was so much fun. I needed that so bad. You have no idea.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think we all did. I learned a lot about you. I mean you do all the things Amanda. All the things.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah all the things, literally all the things. I like my money coming from different places.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, multiple revenue streams, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, your bestselling book is Make Money or Honey. And you also have an amazing social media feed that we were all gushing over at the retreat, especially your Insta Stories. You also are an influencer, you even have a course on how to be an influencer and you're a brand ambassador.
Amanda Abella:
Yup I literally do all the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All the things.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. What happened with me was you know I graduated during the recession and I just kind of learned really early on to always have your money coming from different places and then I was a recruiter for two years and I interviewed people who lost their jobs all the time. So I was like you always need to have multiple sources of income because if one thing doesn't work out like you get fired, well you still have money coming in from this other place so it started as a survival mechanism and now it's just a wealth building strategy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wise words my friend. And one of your multiple income streams that is growing is your brand ambassador business. And that brings us to your money story that has to do with a big new client that almost wasn't as big as you wanted it to be. Tell us.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah so what happened there was I started getting approached a lot more for brand ambassador work. And first of all I had no idea how much money you could make doing this stuff because I was just having so much fun. I didn't know what the market rates were. I didn't know how to negotiate these situations. I didn't know anything about the contracts. But I started getting approached for this kind of work. So I went to go find myself an agent because I was like I need help. And the agent trained me a little bit on what to do in the meetings and all those kinds of things. And we were negotiating with this really big client. It was the first time I was going to do something of that magnitude and we were trying to figure out my rate sheet.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of business was the client in? Can you tell us anything about it?
Amanda Abella:
Financial software.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Amanda Abella:
So we were trying to figure out my rate sheet for all the different deliverables and things like that because that's how green I was right, like I didn't even have a rate sheet.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of deliverables would be on the rate sheet?
Amanda Abella:
You know media appearances, social media posts, blog posts, e-mail blasts, Twitter chats, all that type of stuff, all the different things that they ask you to do. I was so green I didn't even have a rate sheet for these things. And we were trying to figure that out at the same time while negotiating with this particular client.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you even start? Is there some kind of a standard place you can go and get that information?
Amanda Abella:
So what really helped me was asking a lot of my friends who were already doing that kind of work. And that's actually how I found out that for many years I have been low balling myself just because I didn't know, like I had no idea. I had no idea I could get paid what they were getting paid and then also one of those friends is the one who connected me with my agent and my agent who has been doing this for a very long time she kind of schooled me on how much money I was leaving on the table. So that was really helpful for me too. So that's how I found out personally.
Amanda Abella:
So what was going on was when we were trying to figure out the rate sheet we were trying to figure out the numbers and I went pretty high on this client to the point where my agent who you know she was doing her job. She's coming from many years of experience was like are you sure you want to do that because you're still pretty green, like do you want to go that high. And I thought to myself well you know what I may be green in terms of working on these big campaigns but I've got plenty of years of blogging experience. I have a pretty big social media following, they're pretty engaged. I'm bilingual. You know I bring things to the table that they need. So let's just go high and see what happens. She agreed. So we went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Amanda Abella:
Not even one peep, not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.
Bobbi Rebell:
So but here is the question Amanda. Knowing what you know now would you have gone higher?
Amanda Abella:
Well I was already pretty high for me. I mean my agent was to the point where she was like congratulations you just gave yourself a bonus of thousands of dollars for this kind of work. Good job negotiating that one. So I thought about that and for this particular client no because that was already super high for me to begin with. But-
Bobbi Rebell:
How much of a percentage higher was it than you kind of thought you were getting or that you were getting before?
Amanda Abella:
It was way more than double. It was like six or seven times more what I was getting previously.
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. OK. I'm sorry go on.
Amanda Abella:
So then having learned from that experience which was also my first experience like being in those meetings with an agent and learning those sort of nuances when you're in those situations with PR teams and things like that it was definitely a real lesson and you know confidence sells. Number one. And number two, fake it till you make it if you have to.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually came, you weren't really faking it because it sounds like when you went to them you had very specific reasons why you were worth what you were asking.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah but it doesn't mean I wasn't nervous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Amanda Abella:
I think people think that you walk into these situations and you're like fearless and you're not, you're just pretending not to be fearless which is where the confidence comes in. But you're right I did have specific experience and specific angles and specific things that I knew they wanted for this specific campaign and I definitely used it to my advantage. And like I said my agent agreed. So you know on the mere fact that I was bilingual I can get more money just because I'm bilingual and living in a city like Miami where everybody is bilingual I forget that that's actually a really valuable asset that I could get paid a lot more money for.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners who may not all be social media all stars and brand influencers, brand ambassadors, how can they apply this to their own lives?
Amanda Abella:
I think it's realizing that there is a lot of talk about the influence that you have in the social media numbers. They're really not that important. One of the things my students tell me all the time is I had no idea that I could get that kind of work with 3000 followers on my Instagram feed or a thousand people on an email list. They all go into my program assuming that they need you know tens of thousands or 100000 followers to get really good brand partnerships and what they don't realize is that brand partnerships are looking more for unique angles and engagement more than they're looking for the actual numbers. Because I mean you could pay to get followers and brands know it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. I want to move on to your money tip because this one is going to be a huge hit with our listeners. I love it because you're going to spill some secrets for us. What's your money tip Amanda?
Amanda Abella:
So my secret is all about the rewards programs that restaurants are really bad at marketing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Therefore they are secrets, they're sort of open secrets that nobody knows about.
Amanda Abella:
So if you frequent certain places and certain restaurants, I've noticed it's definitely more with the chain restaurants. A lot of times they have apps and on those apps they have rewards programs or loyalty programs or referral programs. So for example I go to a specific juice bar pretty often after I work out. I learned recently that they had an app where I could get like 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:10:13]after spending a certain amount or if I refer friends I get three dollars off my next juice. I had no idea because they hadn't actually like said anything to me, I just happened to see a, I saw a little thing on the napkin holder and then a friend also told me he was like you don't know that they have an app.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so random.
Amanda Abella:
So my tip is not only to use the apps and find them but ask to see if they're even available because like I said they don't necessarily do a really good job of telling their customers that these things exist. Unless you're Starbucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Starbucks is pretty aggressive about promoting their app. But other companies maybe not so. And if you take the time just like with so many of the money tips that we talk about here if you take the time to focus and learn about these programs, ask about them, you will benefit.
Amanda Abella:
Yep, it's all about asking.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what's the best deal you've ever gotten through an app?
Amanda Abella:
Hmm well I'm getting 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:11:07]now. So that's pretty good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Pretty good.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah I'm kind of addicted to them to be honest so I would say that's the best one although I would say probably my best deals have been through the Soul Cycle app.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh OK.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I do Soul Cycle. You know if you sign up for like certain challenges, if you're working out already anyway, you sign up for certain challenges or certain themed rides or they'll have certain promotions going on. Like I walked in yesterday and they gave me like a bag of free stuff because I'm partaking in this certain challenge and I've been tracking it you know on the app and then once I get to a certain amount of rides which the app tracks then I get a free ride. So that's probably the one that has saved me the most money because Soul Cycle is not cheap.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, can we just back up here because I really want to hear about the free stuff. What was in the free stuff bag from Soul Cycle?
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I got a bag. I got like a top to work out in. I got a water bottle. People just keep giving me water bottles lately, I have a whole collection of them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah water bottles are, we got water bottles on the retreat.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. I was joking with my roommate I was like I lose one water bottle and require another four no matter-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know, I know. I am very excited about the Soul Cycle free stuff though. You have delivered, that alone Amanda, you scored. I want to talk about you because one of the things that happened on the retreat was you made a decision to pick something up that I loved. I loved your podcast and I'm so happy that you're going to bring it back.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah so I'm bringing my podcast back after much deliberation and I really want to thank Statement and all the women who attended it and all the tips you gave me Bobbi because I've been studying your podcast since I got back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.
Amanda Abella:
I was like Bobbi is on point. Bobbi knows what she's doing. I'm going to take some notes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.
Amanda Abella:
So I'm bringing my podcast back. It's coming back in July and it's going to alternate between solo episodes where I'm answering a lot of my audience questions about you know business, online marketing, negotiating, making money, all those types of things and then I'm also going to be bringing on a lot of guests so a lot of the women who were at the retreat have actually already signed up to be on the podcast so I'll be interviewing them. It will be a lot of fun and I'm trying to really bring as much diversity as I can to the conversation. So a lot of women, a lot of people of color. I'm Latina so that's something that really matters to me. One of the things I've heard so much from people is how sometimes it's hard for them to really relate to a lot of the mainstream financial advice that's out there because these people just you know either don't look like them or don't have the same experience as them. So I'm trying to bring as much diversity to the conversation as I can.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you for that. I'm working on that here too. So I think we are hopefully on a good path with all that. Where can people find you, especially your Insta Stories which we're all obsessed with.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah my Insta Stories are a lot of fun. You guys can go watch me freak out over seeing snow for the first time on my Insta. Bobby was there for that. So you could go to Amanda Abella. That's my Twitter and my Instagram, I'm all over those all day long. You could also go to my Web site amandaabella.com or you could find my podcast, previous episodes of my podcast. So they're on iTunes, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Spotify, YouTube, just search make money or honey or my name.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Amanda.
Amanda Abella:
Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take on what Amanda had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. Take a moment and write down the skills that you have that are unique, things you can use as leverage to get more money in a negotiation. So in Amanda's case one thing that she is is Latina, she's also bilingual. If you can't think of something, become something. Learn a skill that will set you apart from others. Invest in yourself in a specific intentional way that will give you a foundation to command higher compensation. Focus on the skills that are most in demand but still hard to find in your field.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talked about the fact that confidence sells and that you have to sell yourself. She did OK when she waited for businesses to come to her but her business really took off when she took control and became proactive. Find a way to appear confident even if you're having jitters inside like Amanda admits she sometimes does. If you need to just leave the room to gather your thoughts if you're getting nervous during a negotiation. Maybe do some power poses. Look up a TED talk by a woman named Amy Cuddy. I'll put it in the show notes and you will see what I mean. I've done it myself and it really works.
Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what story you want to share and what your everyday money tip would be if you are chosen. Thank you all for being part of our financial grownup community. If you enjoy the show consider leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts and of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1. Don't forget to DM me with your feedback about the show. I love hearing from everyone.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show join the competition. Share the videos when you see them on social media. Retweet, repost and so on. You can even see them by the way on YouTube now. We will pick a winner by July 1st. So look for us to move forward in early July. Amanda is amazing. I'm excited for her podcast to come back so make sure to watch her social channels for updates on that. Great episode. And thank you Amanda for giving us the confidence to ask for what we deserve and sometimes even more than we think we can get. Helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being.
In Jen’s money story you will learn:
-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially
-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family
-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family
-How communication issues can impact financial decisions
In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:
-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help
-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed
-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help
-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family
In Jen’s money tip you will learn:
-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals
-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store
-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money
In my take you will learn:
-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help
-Strategies to have money available for that purpose
-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget
EPISODE LINKS
Get Jen’s new book!
Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice
Follow Jen!
Twitter: @jenhemphilll
IG: @jenhemphill
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.
Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.
Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.
Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.
Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?
Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?
Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?
Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-
Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-
Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”
Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.
Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.
Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.
Jen Hemphill:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?
Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.
Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.
Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right.
Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.
Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.
Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.
Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.
Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.
Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City.
In Kristin’s money story you will learn:
-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising
-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work
-The price of the first piece of art she sold
-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism
-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism
-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist
-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media
-How you can buy art that is affordable
In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills
-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create
-Pricing strategies for art
In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:
-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money
-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand
-Where Kristin goes for her recipes
In My Take you will learn:
-How to buy art as an investment
-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly
-How to use social media to research and find art to buy
-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art
You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself.
EPISODE LINKS
Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/
The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018
This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July.
Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:
Mourlot editions
Wide Walls
Art Space
Paddle8.com
Also mentioned: RealSimple.com
Follow Kristin!
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks
Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.
Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.
Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?
Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.
Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?
Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.
Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.
Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.
Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.
Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?
Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.
Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.
Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.
Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Life Coach and best-selling author Allison Task was a dot-com millionaire by 30, only to lose it all in the dot-com bust. But from there she started on a path that has included working with Martha Stewart, hosting cooking shows, writing cookbooks, building a coaching business and her latest book “Personal (R)evolution. How To Be Happy, Change Your Life, And Do That Thing You’ve Always Wanted To Do. “
In Allison’s money story you will learn:
-How Allison found became a millionaire when she was not yet 30 years old
-Why she had, and still has, conflicted feelings about whether she deserved the money
-How she lost the million dollars
-Why she actually came out in the red on the entire transaction, in large part because of the tax implications of the stock options
-What it was like to be part of the dot-com bubble
-What she might do differently were she to have another shot at a million dollars
In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:
-Her advice to listeners who want to earn a lot of money
-Why she does not advocate chasing money
-How she believes listeners can figure out what makes them happy
In Allison’s money tip you will learn
-Why her closet is so much smaller than her husbands
-Allison’s philosophy on how to maximize your clothing budget
-Her advice ,as mom of four, on clothing for children, and how to make the most of your spending on kids shoes and clothing
-How her husband reacts when she calls his clothing “crap-oh- la”
-Why Allison shy’s away from great deals on clothing and vacations
In My Take you will learn:
-The basics of how stock options work
-Why taxes tied to stock options can complicate the investment
-How to manage an investment loss and offset future investment gains
Episode Links:
Get Allison’s new book Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do.
Visit Allison’s website
AllisonTask.com
Follow Allison!
Twitter: allisontask
Facebook: www.facebook.com/allison-task
Linked In: www.linkedin.com/allison-task
Instagram AllisonTaskCoach
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brains behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So, don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees. Join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.
Allison Task:
I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it, and I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there to gather. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, we'll get to our guest in just a sec. But I want to take a minute to just talk about some stuff about the show that's been going on. We've been getting a lot of great feedback, compliments and questions about the video promotions that we run on social media to support the podcast. I thought it might make sense to address some of the questions here. First of all, lots of you guys are asking me who makes them for us. I actually make them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new skills. I have a background in television production. I was a TV anchor for years. Part of working in media these days is learning a lot of technology editing and creative stuff. So, I'm really enjoying making them myself.
Bobbi Rebell:
The other question I'm getting the most is where you can get them made for your projects, for your business, or just for yourself. The answer is, well, I'm not going to go into that business. I have enough side hustles for now. But I did come up with an idea, an experiment that we're going to try here. We're going to have a little competition, hopefully, you guys are game, and the winner will get a custom video from me that I will make for your business, for you, for an event, whatever you want. Anything reasonable, we'll come up with something fun. The way it's going to work is from now until the beginning of July, I'm going to ask that whenever you see a video promotion for Financial Grownup, you share it on social media. Whether it be sharing on Facebook, retreating, reposting on Instagram, also DM me. Let me know that you're out there and that you are spreading the word about Financial Grownup. In the beginning of July, 1 week in July, I will see who is sharing the most and they will get a custom-made video promo just for them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our fantastic guest. She is so cool. As you heard at the top of the show, the money came easy for a young Allison Task, and then it went poof, just as fast. But she has recovered. You'll be glad to know and has made peace with the whole drama. Not sure I would be so chill. But Allison did go on to work with Martha Stewart, and to host your own cooking shows. Also, she wrote some bestselling cookbooks. Alison has also built a life coaching business and she's got a great situation now with her husband and kids, and a fantastic new book that was just released called Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. Basically, it's all the solutions to everything in a book. Yeah. Anyway, she's doing a lot, she's terrific. Here is Allison Task.
Bobbi Rebell:
Allison Task, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. I binge read it this weekend. Even though I know I'm supposed to be doing exercises and stopping and going back and forth and all that good stuff. I promise I will, okay?
Allison Task:
You got it. It's there for you when you're ready.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. And you brought with you a money story which I have not heard in full yet. But I'm really excited about the beginning and really curious about the end, go for it.
Allison Task:
Okay. Well, the beginning is I need a million dollars and then cut to the end I lost a million dollars all before I was 30. That was actually real dollars. That wasn't like my monopoly, that was real.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Fill in the blanks on that one.
Allison Task:
Okay, the blanks are simple, dot com. I was one of those early dot com kids and was one of the first 50 people in three different companies. One of them went public when I was there, and I had two commas in my bank account that I checked via etrade.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us the details. What was the company and how did you end up working there? Tell us just a little bit more.
Allison Task:
Sure. The company was called Silicon Valley Internet Partners. I was the marketing director. So, after a year it was then called Viant. You may remember at the time there was Viant, there were Siant, there were lots of internet builders. We were the people who were strategists, designers, and technologists to large companies who wanted websites back in the 90s. We helped create the not.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
I remember that.
Allison Task:
Yeah, we worked with People Magazine. We worked all over new media and old media, literally building their high-performance websites.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, explain how you made the million dollars. You were paid in stock? What exactly happened? How did the million happen?
Allison Task:
I was employee number 50. I was there for four years. I was paid in stock. Generous stock options. Probably year two when I was there, we went public and those stock options that were pennies went to over three figures. So, I had multi million dollars on paper. And [inaudible 00:05:56] I exercised my shares, which means I got to pay taxes on those multimillion dollars too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you sell the stock when exercised those shares? [crosstalk 00:06:03] different. Right. So, explain how this works. You have to pay the taxes when you actually receive the stock, but that doesn't mean you sold the stock and received money.
Allison Task:
Correct. So, I probably purchased the stock when it was around 60. It went up to 120. And then I remember my father telling me, "Honey, it's at 30, you need to sell. You need to sell." I'm like, "It's fine." I didn't sell until it went down to six, and then it became a penny stock and I believe delisted.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, you went from a million, more than a million-
Allison Task:
More than a million.
Bobbi Rebell:
... to ultimately that whole venture cost you money because of the tax. Is that correct?
Allison Task:
Yeah, that's so painful. I did have five years during which I was not paying tax. I was not paying tax, why? Because I had then got to write off the loss. But, yeah. I think it wasn't, definitely it wasn't a million dollars in the bank account. Let's just say.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, first of all, looking back, is there anything you could have done differently? I guess you should have sold it at 120 if you are had a crystal ball, which you did not.
Allison Task:
Listen, with four kids, I would not have minded having that money, made a few investments. I think it would have been prudent to have earned it. What it did do for me, though, was set me up with my attitude for life. First of all, I say it's a million-dollar joke, I need to laugh a lot and I learn a lot from that experience, right? There's some value there.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't alone, by the way.
Allison Task:
Oh, God. No.
Bobbi Rebell:
No.
Allison Task:
Definitely. At least I did it to myself, you know what I mean? No one was [inaudible 00:07:25] me. That was my choice, fair and square. I think I always felt uncomfortable because I didn't earn the money, right? I wanted to earn it with my effort. I felt like, well, I was just part of a big thing. Well, that money came from somewhere. Someone had their retirement account and it went into Viant at some time. It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it. I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.
Bobbi Rebell:
This is a little psychiatrist's thing, but do you feel like you sabotaged yourself the way you're talking?
Allison Task:
I think you're onto something. I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? I'm a marketing director for a dot com company. Come on. Come on. I'm not working that hard. How did I create that value? I didn't. In the end, it wasn't a value. It went away. It was part of the big bubble. Something of it felt dirty. Money is money, that was someone's, it wasn't mine. I didn't earn it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back in all your grow up wisdom, what is the lesson, what is the takeaway for our listeners?
Allison Task:
Well, the take away is definitely find a way to earn your money in a way you feel good about. I, after that, literally left and started working for myself, right? When you work for yourself, you're only as good as your last client. You're only as good as your last experience. I developed a lot of personal integrity in terms of the way I work and the way I want to do my work. From that, I have something that's more important than money in my opinion, which is life satisfaction. Making a meaningful contribution. I'm a life coach. Everyone who comes to my office wants to make a meaningful contribution, every single last one. It's more valuable than money.
Allison Task:
I lost the money and learned the lesson, but I still really ... I had my ethics and values and I knew something wasn't right. What's the lesson your listeners?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.
Allison Task:
If you make a lot of money and you keep chasing money, there's something that's not right. There's a lack of fitness. If you have money and you keep chasing money, it's like you can never be too rich or too thin. I don't subscribe to that. I think there's a weird thing when you keep chasing money. So, figure out what that's about if you actually want to be happy.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we're going to pivot and kind of take a different angle. Because your money tip actually has to do with splurging. So, I guess it's okay if you have the right amount of money to splurge. Tell us more about how you approach that.
Allison Task:
Definitely. Splurge and enjoy it. This one, I'm going to take you into my closet for this one. My husband and I share a closet. It's a walk-in closet. But my side is pretty small. And why is my side small? I buy outstanding things. I used to go to the Gap and get six pairs of pants, half of which were on sale, most of which would fall apart in three months. I now by very expensive high quality essential pieces. Like, a pair of black pants, an amazing pair of Frye boots. My husband likes a sale, and he has a lot of crap-hola that doesn't exactly look, good fit.
Bobbi Rebell:
How would he feel if he heard you say that?
Allison Task:
He would not his hand and say, "I know hun, I know."
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, really?
Allison Task:
I know, but it was such a good deal. But it was such a good deal. No good deal. Certainly not when you're sharing my closet, babe. No. Those vacations, right? You wait all year to go on the vacation. Spend the money. Spend the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Easier said than done. What about with your kids?
Allison Task:
Ah, my kids. I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. First of all, I have four kids, three of whom are under five. I do not want tons of crap, right? Their shoes, they each get one pair of sneakers, period. Wear it until there are holes in it. I mean that literally. They were their sneakers-
Bobbi Rebell:
But what if they get wet?
Allison Task:
Well, they have really good rubber boots.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book. As I mentioned, I whipped through it in literally one day. I know you're not supposed to do that, because one of the best things about it is it really, if you do go through this book properly, it holds you accountable.
Allison Task:
The book is nine chapters, end and intro. Each chapter is designed to be a guidebook workbook. So, the thing about seeing your coaches, coaches ask you lots of questions to get you deeper into your own thinking. Throughout the book, there's action points and insight points with lots of questions. I say please use it with a workbook, use it with a computer. Before you can go on to the next chapter, there's a prep sheet. You're constantly scaling yourself. How much closer am I to achieving my goal?
Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite chapter then?
Allison Task:
I really like chapter five. Chapter four is identify your network. It's for people who want to do more networking. Anytime you have something you want to do, you call upon your people. You call upon your social network to help you. That is everything. Chapter five is expanding your network, right? So many people feel awkward about self-promotion, about asking others for things. So, once I got you to trust me and feel comfortable that like you are loved and people root for you, now let's take the next step and expand upon that existing network.
Allison Task:
My second favorite chapter is the last chapter, which is all about celebrating. You've achieved it. You've done it. Now, let's set that experience in your brain so that you can do it again and you can call upon it in the future. My book launched last week, and last week, it became a best seller on Amazon and actually still is. And so now, this is that time for me. I get to celebrate and do end runs with everyone who helped me along the way, and that's a total joy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we will leave you to celebrate. Where can everyone find you and find out more about the book and everything you're up to?
Allison Task:
Thank you. Please visit allisontask.com. That's A-L-L-I-S-O-N-T-A-S-K.com. Plug it in to Facebook, Twitter, I'm Allison Task all over the place.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Allison Task:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, Allison was pretty cool about the loss, but I wonder how she really was back in the day. I do want to do a little bit of explaining about how options work and what exactly happened in terms of the tax consequences. Because we sort of alluded to it a little bit. Allison talked about how it worked out, but I think it's important that you guys understand at least a little bit about how options work.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. If you do ever get offered stock options, obviously, do the research thoroughly and understand how they work. Because as Allison explained, you can sometimes be on the hook for taxes, even before you actually have the cash from the stock. So, a little bit about that. Options basically mean that you can buy or exercise shares at a preset price, known as the strike price. If a stock is selling at a price higher than the strike price, you basically get to buy the stock at a discount. If you sell them right away, guaranteed profit. The catch, and this is what Allison mentioned, is that you owe tax on the transaction, whether or not you sell the stock at that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you sell the stock, you have the cash to pay the tax from your actual profits that you took, you got the money, you're good. But if you are betting that the stock is going to keep rising even more and you want to hold on to it so you don't sell it, you still have to pay the tax on that paper profit that you had by exercising the option. So, then, if the stock goes down and you sell it for a loss, the thing is, the government does not send you a check refunding the taxes that you paid. It doesn't work that way. It's really important that you understand how that works, and the risk involved.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Back to the taxes. So, the tax payments are painful, but they can be used in the future to offset other investment profits. So, let's say that you have a capital gain on another stock, another investment the next year. You can carry forward the losses from the first transaction and then you can offset those gains plus, an additional $3,000. So, it's going to help your tax situation going forward, even though no one wants to have paid taxes on money they didn't really make. You do get at least to match it up against profits going forward. That's basically what Allison did, and what she was referring to when she kind of jokingly said that she did not pay taxes for five years.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right everyone, please continue to rate and review the show if you have not on iTunes or Apple Podcast. Every single review matters. I know it's another thing to do. You guys are busy, but it is truly appreciated. And of course, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any episodes. We are also now on YouTube, just starting out there. So, we're posting the show there and we're also posting those promotional videos. Just search for financial grown up and you'll find it and you can see the promotional videos there. And, if you are following me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, please DM me. I want to hear from you guys and hear what you like about the show, what you want to hear differently on the show, guests that you want all that good stuff. So, be in touch and of course, follow me on Instagram @bobbyrebell1, and twitter @bobbirebell. I'm on Facebook, Bobbi Rebel. Learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, go check out Allison Task's new book, personal revolution, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. It is already a bestseller, and thank you, Allison, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Clever Girl Finance’s Bola Sokunbi is famous for saving $100k on a $54k salary in about 3 years. But then she started dropping $3,000 on a massive collection of luxury handbags, most of which she never even used.
In Bola’s money story you will learn:
-How she saved more than $100,000 on a salary of just $54,000 in three and a half years
-The side hustle that helped her reach that goal
-How after she reached that goal, she made a very unexpected spending splurge
-The fascinating reason, looking back, that she went down that path and kept going!
-The moment she woke up and realized she had to make a change
-Exactly what she did to get back on track and make a profit in the process
-The regret she had despite making money on her debacle
-Why she thinks so much about Amazon stock
In Bola’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why keeping her handbags in top condition was the key in getting a solid return when she went to sell them
-Other ways to maintain the value of resale able luxury goods like handbags
-Her take on investing in goods like handbags compared to the stock market and corporations
In Bola’s money tip you will learn:
-Ways to get luxury goods like handbags for less money without compromising quality
-Bola’s favorite pre-owned goods resources
-How friends can trade or sell handbags to each other
-Bola’s new strategy for buying expensive handbags
In my take you will learn:
-Why I compare Bola’s handbag venture to winning the lottery
-The difference between saving money and building wealth
-How to sell luxury goods like handbags, as well as other things you can sell, like baby strollers
-Why I do not promote buying fake goods as a cheaper option
Episode links
Bola’s website: CleverGirlFinance.com
Bola’s podcast: Clever Girls Know
Follow Bola!
Twitter Clever Girl Finance
Instagram Clever Girl Finance
Facebook Clever Girl Finance
LinkedIn Bola Sokunbi
Also mentioned in the show:
Vestiare Collective
Fashionphile
Rent the Runway
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Bola Sokumbi:
I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather. Like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is one of those, "She did not do that," episodes. My guest was a champ at saving money on a very low income, but once she had that money, things took in unexpected turn and then there was yet another unexpected twist to the story. Bola Sokumbi is a certified financial education instructor and the force behind the very popular, Clever Girl Finance, a website and podcast that empowers and educates women to make the best financial decisions for them. Here is Bola Sokumbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Bola Sokumbi, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of yours. First of all, in addition to being a money expert, you are the force behind Clever Girl Finance, which is a website and a podcast. It started after you. I don't even know how you did this. You saved $100,000 in three and a half years on a salary of, I want to say, about $50,000?
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I was making $54,000 before taxes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Give us just the high level. How you did that.
Bola Sokumbi:
I basically got lean and mean with, probably, my finances. I contributed to my retirement fund from my employer because I knew they were offering a match and that was a way for me to get some free money. I kept my expenses super low. I avoided my friends and stayed home. I wasn't going out to eat very much. I wasn't buying alcohol. I was the-
Bobbi Rebell:
Temporarily, right?
Bola Sokumbi:
Temporarily.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Bola Sokumbi:
I was in a steady ramen noodles and coke diet. I focused on saving 40 to 50% of my paycheck and anything extra.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Bola Sokumbi:
I save my tax returns, my bonuses. I try to save as much as possible. I also started a side hustle. I started a wedding photography business, which really helped to increase the amount of money I was bringing in. That helped contribute to me being able to save that amount of money. Finally, I avoided credit cards as best I could. I, instead, used a charge card that require me to pay my balance in full every month. That kept me really mindful about my spending, but overall, it was really just setting the intention that I wanted to save and I wanted to challenge myself to save six figures. I put my mind to it. I gone to that focus and three and a half years later, I was able to save that $100,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. In full details, if anyone wants, go to Clever Girl Finance. I want to talk about your money story that you brought because Bola, this is like an incredible story given what you just said.
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here you are. You got $100,000. You're hustling with a side hustle. You're eating ramen noodles. You're doing everything intentionally, maxing out your retirement account to get the max. What do you do? You start buying $3,000 handbags. Tell us what, what.
Bola Sokumbi:
Holla.
Bobbi Rebell:
What?
Bola Sokumbi:
Let me break it down. Basically, I got to this point where I had saved a ton of money. I had a lot of money in the bank. Actually, at the end of the four years, I had about $150,000 saved. I was making more money. I had my business. I gone raising at my job. I was earning, now, well over six figures at this point. I was like "Wow, I have all this money. I maxed out my retirement savings. I'm still meeting my savings obligations. I just have to treat myself." I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather, like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
I personally would've bought a pint of Haagen-Dazs if I wanted to treat myself but okay. $3,000 handbags.
Bola Sokumbi:
I went all the way, yes. I got my first designer handbag like "Oh my God, this is amazing. It's beautiful. I bought this in cash. I love it."
Bobbi Rebell:
What was it? Describe it.
Bola Sokumbi:
It was a Channel Jumbo in black caviar leather with gold hardware, classic, beautiful.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I wouldn't know.
Bola Sokumbi:
I got the one. Should've been enough, but then I was like well, few months later, I have all the spare money. I'm still saving. I didn't know what to do. I want to invest, but I don't need to invest that much. I'm going to buy another designer handbag. I got to the point where I was buying several handbags for maybe three or four years. To me, it was fine because I was still saving. I was still meeting my obligation.
Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you think you spent in total, Bola, on the handbags?
Bola Sokumbi:
Oh my goodness. I don't know. If we were to have an Instagram competition on who could grab their handbags steady for the next 30 to 60 days, I would win, every time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Wait. You're going to have a different handbag every day for 30 to 60 days?
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah, I could. Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Bola Sokumbi:
I could've. I have a lot of handbags. I had them in different colors-
Bobbi Rebell:
Were they just sitting in the closet? Were you taking them to work? What was going on with the handbags?
Bola Sokumbi:
That's the sucky part. I maybe use like two or three. Well, I was exaggerated. I didn't have 60. Exaggerating. About a month. Let's say, a month. I didn't really use them. That was a disappointing factor. I'm one of those people that believe that if there's something that you like and it's something that you're going to use, go for it as long as you plan it out financial, but I wasn't using them. They did not make financial sense for me. I was using like one or two of them, and then maybe the others, I would look at or wear to a baby shower for 25 minutes and it goes right back into the closet. It did not make any financial sense. Fortunately, for me, at the time that I purchase them, for those of you who are into handbags, knew that there have been a flurry of price increases especially with the higher end luxury brands.
Bola Sokumbi:
At the time I bought the handbags, I bought them before the crazy price increases started. I got to a point where I was like "Okay, this doesn't make any sense." I will look in my closet and all I would see would be dollar bills stacked up. My husband is like "You need to let these go. You don't even use them. It doesn't make sense. You feel so guilty about having them because you're not using them." I took it upon myself to sell almost every one of them. I still have a few. The ones I use. It was really hard to sell them because I felt like I was selling my children. It's crazy. When I think about it, it's ridiculous, but I sold them. Luckily, for me, because of the price increases, I was able to sell them for a lot more than I purchase. That very first Channel handbag, the black jumbo I just described with caviar hardware, I paid $2,900 for it and I sold it for $5,500.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. Only you, Bola, would actually turn a cringeworthy shopping habit into a positive investment experience.
Bola Sokumbi:
However, Bobbi, to the point you asked me before we started recording was, I made money but when I think about it, I really didn't make that much money because one of the things that trigger me to start selling those handbags was Amazon stock. I realized that if I had spent all that money I spent on those handbags on Amazon Stock, I would've had times 100 of what I had spent on handbags. Not just doubling my money. I would've like times 100 it, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
If you had actually bought Amazon Stock, but truthfully, how much do you think ... do you think you spent $90,000 on handbags?
Bola Sokumbi:
Oh, I don't know. Over a three to four year period, I spent a lot of money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. You bought 30 handbags at $3,000 each.
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I had about 30. They were not all the same price.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Bola Sokumbi:
They were not all $3,000 handbags.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the most expensive one?
Bola Sokumbi:
The Channel handbags I had. They were about in the $3,000, $3,500 range at that time. Now, they're not anymore. They're about 6 to $7,000 now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Bola Sokumbi:
I don't own any more handbags by the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this beyond the fact that there was a time in life when investing in handbag was actually an appreciable asset? Still, they probably know. I don't know the market, but anyway, beyond the fact that it actually turned on to be a good investment.
Bola Sokumbi:
I wouldn't even describe as an appreciable handbag because for me, it was just purely for the fact that I was not using them. No one is going to pay you top dollar for a handbag that has been worn and beat up. If you're buying something, I believe that you should be using it. Lesson for this is cost per wear. You can have 100 Channel handbags if you want to have them and if you can afford them and you're paying for them in cash and it's not taking off your financial goals, but what is your cost per wear. How often are you using them? Are you getting your money's worth? If you buy a handbag for $3,000 and you wear it once, then that one time you wore it cost you $3,000 and that makes no sense. If you buy this handbag and you wear it 3,000 times over four years, then that handbag cost you $1 or maybe it comes down to cents and pennies and that starts to make more sense because as opposed to buying $25 handbags over that three-year period and use that one handbag over that time and you get your cost per wear.
Bola Sokumbi:
To me, cost per wear is really important. That's how I plan out my wardrobe. I still buy fancy things, but I have to be using them. I have to get my cost per wear down to pennies for it to make sense. I know when I see something if I'm going to use it or not. Understand your cost per wear. People may think, "Oh, buying handbags is crazy," but people spend their money on different things. For me, it was the handbag thing. Some people spend their money on electronics, on cars, on things that they don't necessarily use like having a second car in your garage that you drive on Saturday is not good to drive per wear.
Bobbi Rebell:
The handbags make you feel good.
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I would pick a handbag over a lot of things. That was me. That was a lesson I learned. I put the money right back into my investment accounts. I was better for it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's stick with the handbag thing. What is your money tip, your everyday money tip for everyone?
Bola Sokumbi:
I would say that if you are a handbag girl like me, no shay, no judgment, find ways to get the handbags that you like at a cheaper cost or without putting out so much money. For instance, Bobbi, you and I talked about Rent the Runway. You really like that. If you want to actually own them, you can think about getting them preowned from sties like Fashion File or Vestiaire Collective. There's a bunch of different ones that are reputable that sell authentic products or even local consignment stores in New York. There's a ton of them. Or buying them off of friends who are trying to let go of their handbags or trying to recycle their wardrobe. Those are great ways that you can get luxury at a lower cost. You can also wait until some of these handbags go into the sale and purchase them that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because a lot of them are really classic.
Bola Sokumbi:
Yes. It's all about buying something that you know you're going to use for a long time. I tend to avoid any trend pieces because I don't want to be out of fashion next year after spending all this money on it. I buy bags that I can carry forever. That's what I do. Every purchase I make right now, I carry that bag to shreds, basically.
Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely. Get that cost per wear down. Where can people find you and learn more about Clever Girl Finance?
Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. You can find me on my website at clevergirlfinance.com, on Instagram at Clever Girl Finance, on Facebook, Clever Girl Finance. I also have a podcast called, Clever Girls Know. You can search for it on iTunes, Stitcher, Sound Cloud. You'll find it there as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone should definitely check all of that out. I am a big fan. Thank you so much, Bola.
Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Except for the fact that she was ironically able to sell the handbags at a profit, this whole thing reminds me of what happens when people inherit a ton of money or they win the lottery and then they just don't know what to do, so they go shopping. Financial Grownup tip number one, Bola was great at accumulating money but she was selling herself short when it came to building wealth. She was meeting her goals in terms of saving and investing and all that, but that doesn't mean she couldn't move the goal post given the resource that she had and make even more ambitious goals. Not a problem to buy a bag that you can afford, but she wasn't even using most of them. Bola is very specific that, well, they ironically went up in value if she had invested the money. In her case, she talks about Amazon Stock, she would've made a lot more money. Of course, you could lose money in the stock market. There's no guarantee of that. It's just something to consider.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do buy luxury goods and you aren't using them, it is easier than ever to sell them, so many resources online. You may not make as big a profit as Bola did, you may lose money but you're still going to get some cash. I have sold some bags on the real wheel. I've been happy to have the cash even though it went for less than I paid. You can also buy slightly used bags there at a discount if you want them. As I've said before, you can rent them at Rent the Runway or other similar websites. I will leave some links in the show notes for you guys. Given these resources, I would also urge you to stay away from the fakes. It undermines the economy and the business of the companies that produce the real thing. Don't buy fake bags. Also, it is illegal.
Bobbi Rebell:
We want you to be a financial grownup. Send us an email to info@financialgrownup.com if you want to be considered for one of our monthly listener episodes. Just tell us what the money story is that you want to share and your everyday money tip. If you have not already, please rate and review the podcast on iTunes, Apple Podcast. That helps others discover us and grow the community. It is truly appreciated. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter @ bobbirebell1 on Instagram and on Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. Bola is the best. I am so appreciative that she was brave enough to get really candid. She definitely got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind.
In Kevin’s money story you will learn:
-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born
-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire
-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire
-Why he regrets taping the video
In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect
-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!
In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:
-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential
-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio
-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced.
In my take you will learn:
-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present
-How to time your financial check ups
Episode Links
Building Bread
Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts
Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs
Follow Kevin
Twitter @buildingbread
Instagram @buildingbread
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/
Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com
Also mentioned
Phroogal
Jason Vitug
The Financial Gym
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.
Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?
Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.
Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?
Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.
Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.
Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.
Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup.
In Randi’s money story you will learn:
-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000
-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses
-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway
In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:
-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence
-If Randi still has all those shoes!
-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money
In Randi’s money tip you will learn:
-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
In My Take you will learn:
-How to manage social media envy
-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends
-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency
Episode Links:
Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com
Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day
Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial
Follow Randi!
Facebook Randi Zuckerberg
Instagram @RandiZuckerberg
Twitter @RandiZuckerberg
Also mentioned
Statement Event
Empower App
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.
Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.
Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-
Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."
Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?
Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."
Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?
Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?
Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?
Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?
Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?
Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission.
In Catie’s money story you will learn:
-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"
-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast
-The employer side of pay negotiation
-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation
In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach
-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford
-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals
In Catie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her tips on negotiating
-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place
-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations
-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations
In my take you will learn:
-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise
-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion
-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right.
-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product.
Episode Links
EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/
Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!
Instagram Catie_Lazarus
Twitter @catielazarus
Facebook EOTM
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.
Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.
Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.
Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.
Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.
Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.
Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.
Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.
Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].
Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?
Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?
Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.
Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?
Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.
Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-
Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.
Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?
Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.
Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?
Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.
Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?
Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.
Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.
Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
“The Big Life” author and former Seventeen Magazine Editor-in-Chief Ann Shoket’s boss literally mocked her when she asked to get paid more as a young magazine editor. Now, she knows better. Ann shares the one thing she does to find out what to ask for in negotiations, and how she leverages it to make more money.
In Ann’s money story you will learn:
-How as a young magazine editor, Ann loved her job, but her compensation was not in line with her contributions.
-How Ann prepared to approach her manager about a raise
-The shocking reason the manager denied her request
-The uncharacteristic response Ann gave to his pushback
-Exactly what Ann would do if she could do it over
In Ann’s lesson you will learn:
-How the resources of today could have helped Ann get that raise
-The specific advice Ann offers millennials
-Where and how exactly listeners can get the information they need to better negotiate
-How to find out what you are worth in the job market
In Anne’s money tip you will learn:
-The best way to approach colleagues and friends to share salary and compensation information
-How e-mail vs IRL compare in sharing sensitive information about compensation and other career advice
-Why it is so important to Ann that she help other women
-The specific language Ann uses in her conversations about money and other compensation with her peers
-How to handle issues of competition with peers and colleagues after sharing information
-What Ann learned from millennials about transparency
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of creating networks and career allies to share pay and other relevant information
-How to decide and communicate boundaries regarding the information
-How to decide if it is best to share information over email or IRL
-The importance of security when sharing sensitive information online
Episode Links:
Ann’s Ted Talk: Why We Should All Be More Millennial
Anne’s book The Big Life: Embrace the Mess, Work Your Side Hustle, Fie a Monumental Relationship and Become the Badass Babe You Were Meant to Be
Anne's website:
AnnShoket.com
Follow Ann!!
Twitter @annshoket
Instagram: @annshoket
Facebook Ann.Shoket
LinkedIn Ann Shoket
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
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Ann Shoket:
He looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So this episode is going to be a treat and perfect for anyone that feels they could, and let's face it, should, be earning more money. You may have a boss you need to convince or you may have your own business and need to figure out how to charge your clients more and grow your business. Ann Shoket is a big name. She first became famous as the editor-in-chief of Seventeen Magazine and was named by Forbes to be one of the most powerful U.S. fashion magazine editors. More recently, she penned The Big Life and started a Badass Babes community. And being a badass herself, she also has an amazing TED Talk called Why We Should All Be More Millennial. Which brings us to the advice she is going to share, because it is about using that idea to get paid more money. Here is Ann Shoket.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ann Shoket, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Ann Shoket:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulation on your massive bestseller, The Big Life, and more recently your TED Talk, which I've now watched a number of times. You are literally the Jane Goodall of millennials, so I'm so excited to be talking with you.
Ann Shoket:
Thank you. I have devoted my career to understanding millennials and supporting them and helping them find their power.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to the money story that you're going to share, which really has to do with trading money for meaning at work. Because of the importance really of meaning, because we spend so much time at work.
Ann Shoket:
So when I was sort of mid-level editor coming up in the world, just past the stage of eating ramen and scrounging and going to happy hours to have dinner, where I had some experience under my belt and a little bit of a salary, I was creating new content for my company and doing great innovations and I wanted to get paid more. And I remember I walked into my boss and I came in with a list of things that I had achieved, I'm no dummy, you know, you come in with these [crosstalk 00:03:09].
Bobbi Rebell:
So you were prepared, right.
Ann Shoket:
It wasn't entitlement, I was prepared for this conversation, and he looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." And I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills. And frankly, I wanted to get paid for the work I was doing and for the good work that I knew I was bringing them. And I remember feeling instantly small, as if I had asked for too much or my ambition was too obvious, and I backed off of my request. I felt small, I retreated. He made me feel like I should feel lucky to be in that position. And maybe it's true, it's a competitive world that we're in-
Bobbi Rebell:
But you had worked for that position. I mean, yes, many other people would love to be in that position but you had earned it and you were working.
Ann Shoket:
And probably the worst part is I loved my job, I really did and he knew it. I loved my job, I was engaged, I was doing good work, I was doing work I felt was meaningful. I was on my path to finding what felt like my purpose, I was doing something real. And he used that to make me feel small in a salary negotiation and I didn't go for the big dollars and I didn't push hard and I backed off immediately. And could I do it all over again, I might have left that meeting, gone back to my desk, and then come back with a nuts and bolts, "Here's what other people are making in my position." It was at a time where frankly we didn't have Glass Door, we didn't have a million ways to check our salaries, so I didn't know what other people were making.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, was it that other people were making more or that they were just paying you very little? We don't really know I guess, we don't know.
Ann Shoket:
I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know.
Ann Shoket:
I don't know. But had I had the resources available that we have today and had I had the benefit of greater perspective on the world, I would have taken that moment and figured out how to get paid what I thought I deserved at that time. I would have really pushed for it rather than feeling small and retreating.
Bobbi Rebell:
So now we are years later, you are the voice for so many millennials, you are teaching them so much. What is your lesson from this that you would share to them if they find themselves in a similar situation?
Ann Shoket:
Knowledge is power. So if you know what other people at your level, in your company, who sit next to you in the competitive company, are making then you have a much greater leverage to get paid what you deserve. Women say to me all the time, "I just want to get paid what I'm worth," and I am like, "That's great, except for how do you know what you're worth?" And the only way to know is to share your salary information.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Ann Shoket:
If you walk away from this interview right now with only one thing, it's share your salary information with a trusted colleague, someone who sits next to you, your regular lunch buddy, but share your salary information. It's not gratuitous, it's not for gossip purposes, but it's so that you know and are better prepared when you go into your own salary negotiation.
Bobbi Rebell:
So sticking to this theme for your money tip, you've talked about sharing your salary information but are there specific ways and specific resources that you can tell people about that can accomplish this goal? Because it's a little bit awkward to just go up to people and say, "Oh hey, tell me what you're making and I'll tell you what I make and it will be all good." I mean, how do you actually ... Are there certain things that you look for with someone that you feel you can trust them? Are there websites you can go to, are there chat groups? Specifically how does this happen? Because it's awkward, right?
Ann Shoket:
It is awkward and I'll tell you, the first time that someone asked me to ballpark my salary for them it came in an email-
Bobbi Rebell:
And was it a close friend, was it someone you knew well?
Ann Shoket:
It was a colleague.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Ann Shoket:
Not a close friend. It was a colleague and we had been supportive of each other over the years. And at first I was so shocked, I was like, "Can you believe the nerve of this woman! I would never share my salary information with her!" And I calmed down and tried to get a little perspective and I gave her some sort of halfway information that she may be able to use, I didn't go all the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
In writing, in writing.
Ann Shoket:
I did, I emailed her back in writing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Ann Shoket:
However, if I did it again I would 100% ballpark and tell her the number. I was so stunned by it but I realize she was so ahead of the curve in even asking. And I have since been in a position to help other women where I've talked about what I got paid and about the ins and outs of my book deal to help other women in getting their book deal. I have had women who have helped me as I've been building a speaking practice, women who've been tremendously supportive, because it's all brand new.
Ann Shoket:
You know, one of the things about having careers that are more complicated and more evolved than we ever planned for is that suddenly you're being thrust into totally new arenas and you have to figure out how to take the skills that you have but make them work in new places and in new ways. How do you do that unless somebody gives you the lay of the land? And so that's another piece of this sisterhood, this idea that we should all support each other so that we can rise together as women and be collaborative and powerful.
Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, just to be specific about this, how do you know when it's okay to trust somebody or do you try to ... You were comfortable doing it in an email, you don't feel you have to pick up the phone or meet someone in person.
Ann Shoket:
I think when you're talking real numbers, I think it's okay to send an email that says, "Hey, can I talk to you about this? I'm interested in finding out what you charge or how you got paid or how the deal went down," in an email, to be clear about what it is that you're asking them. But then to have the real nuts and bolts money conversation in person, I think is probably smart. That's how the last couple of conversations that I've had have gone. But I think it has to be someone you trust, who's not going to feel competitive, someone who's going to give you good, smart information. And I think that you find those people in your network, maybe they're not someone who sits next to you at work, maybe it's not your work wife, although you probably should share some of this information with your work wife. But it is people who are going to be in your life for a while, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Ann Shoket:
You're going to see them at industry events, you're going to be up for the same jobs, you're going to see them schmoozing here and there, you're going to see them at parities-
Bobbi Rebell:
What do you do if you find out that there's a big disparity?
Ann Shoket:
I think the only thing to do ... I mean, yes, maybe it's awkward with the two of you but I think it's better to say now you know and now you can go to your boss and let them know that you know and to be clear. One of the most interesting things about this transparency that millennials have brought into the world is that Gen Xers are so supremely uncomfortable with it, we think it's TMI and that it's oversharing and that the system, sort of old systems, are set up to keep you in line and to keep you not knowing. And those don't really serve us moving forward, the transparency that millennials are demanding is going to become second nature for all of us. And so I think it's a smart company that honors this kind of transparency rather than shuts it down.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right, Ann Shoket, I know that you are so busy on the speaker circuit and with all of your projects. Tell us more about what you're up to these days and where people can find you.
Ann Shoket:
So since the TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial, I have actually been doing a ton of speaking. It is, in so many ways, a love letter to millennials, to a generation that I believe is going to lead our future and is changing the way we define power and success. But it's also incredibly important for boomers and Xers, and there's this real tension at work between boomers and Xers and the millennial employees that are coming up behind them. And it is my goal to make everybody come together so that we can rise together as women.
Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find you?
Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com is the best, fastest way to find The Big Life, to find my speaking, to find my TED Talk.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is awesome, by the way. And on social media?
Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com on Instagram, ann.shoket on Facebook, annshoket on Twitter. You can find me everywhere, I'm very easy to find. A-N-N, S-H-O-K-E-T.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, this has been amazing.
Ann Shoket:
Thank you Bobbi, I love it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love how direct Ann was, I feel there were a lot of takeaways but this is what I'm going to focus on. Financial grownup tip number one, create networks and career allies to share pay and career information. But this is what I'm adding, treat it kind of like any successful relationship, in that you need to respect the boundaries and you also need to respect that even though you're being transparent with each other that doesn't mean that the information goes beyond that relationship, you need to respect the other person and their privacy. Be sure to vet someone also before you reveal too much, and keep the information that is said between the two of you, or the group, private unless it is clearly agreed that it is for public disclosure. Ann and I have shared career information and goals, but that remains private.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. When you have these conversations, Ann points out that while you can initiate via email, you should have the real conversation in real life, in person, face to face. Meeting in person is worth the time, at the very least, do it by phone. On your end, you don't want to create a paper trail with information that you don't want to go beyond the intended recipient. No matter how well-intentioned they are, things happen, be secure with your information.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The minute this podcast is over, I want everyone to go listen to Ann Shoket's TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial. I will leave a link in the show notes. Then check out her book, The Big Life, and follow her on social media. I want to hear your money story and get some great money tips from you, our listeners. We are going to be starting having one episode a month be a listener as our guest. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, lesson, and money tip you would share.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you like what you are hearing please don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And of course, rate and review the show, especially on iTunes. Anywhere is good, but especially iTunes so more people can learn about the show. And on that note, please share this with a friend so we can share these stories with more people and help them live richer lives. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I adore Ann and I hope you do now too. It was a great episode and here's to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode.
In Manisha’s money story you will learn:
-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons
-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator
-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween.
-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments
-The power of compounding
In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:
-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing
-The corrosive power of inflation
-Why we need to put the recent period of historically low inflation in context
-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility
In Manisha’s money tip you will learn
Manisha’s investing formula
Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios
Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years
For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age
That is the amount that should be in equities
For example Manisha is 47.
110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities