Everyday we are seeing higher prices on everything from gas to the food we eat. But all is not lost. There are opportunities not just to cut costs as a consumer, but also to be smart as an investor. We talk with Andrew Graham of Jackson Square Capital for tips on how to navigate investing with inflation on the rise. 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them, and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So, I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Andrew Graham:
With elevated levels of inflation, with higher bond yields, that's a recipe probably for outperformance in value sectors. And the value sectors presently are: financials, materials, and energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because, you know what? Grown-up life is really hard but, together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends. I hope everyone's enjoying spring, wherever you are. It's a great time for a road trip, if you can afford the gas. And that is not the only thing with sky high prices. I mean, looking for a home these days can make even the most tenacious grown-ups feel like giving up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where is the upside? Well, there are investment opportunities here, and that's what we're going to talk about today. Our guest is Andrew Graham. He is the founder and managing partner at Jackson Square Capital. And it was really a privilege to be able to bring you his insights that he shares with his high-net-worth clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing to pay special attention to in the interview is what he has to say about the kinds of banks that are going to outperform and why. We also talk about energy and why that could be a place for dividends and a hedge against inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andrew also has some compelling things to say about the housing market and whether buying a home will become more affordable anytime soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listen closely. There's a lot to learn from this guy. Here is Jackson Square Capital's, Andrew Graham.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andrew Graham, you're a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Andrew Graham:
Thank you. I'm glad to be on the pod.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so happy to have you. So, let me just give a quick introduction. You're the founder and managing partner of Jackson Square Capital, an investment and financial advisory, out in San Francisco, one of my favorite cities.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked you to come on because so many of our listeners are concerned about inflation. They go to the grocery store. They go to the gas pump. The prices are just frightening, more and more, but there's some upside to this when it comes to investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, so, I asked you to come and talk about some strategies and some sort of mindset that we can take to understand that there are things about inflation that can present opportunity and, certainly, in some ways, at least mitigate some of the damage that we're seeing in our day-to-day consumer life with some wealth management strategies. So, thank you for coming on.

Andrew Graham:
My pleasure. So, I can start with inflation, just really quick. For us, in our world, as an in investment manager, our visibility really extends. It extends six months, for sure. And then, the further you go, the less clear things become, but we can kind of see out nine months and feel pretty good, forecasting nine months forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with equity. Where are the best sectors, in terms of equity investments for your money, as inflation continues to be a concern?

Andrew Graham:
Yeah. I think the best places to be, in terms of maybe equity style, rather than growth, sort of tech-centric portfolios, we have ... These are all household names now over the last 12 years. Everybody's made sure they've owned plenty of them. It's been pretty apparent that that where ... that was the only game in town.

Andrew Graham:
But with elevated levels of inflation, with higher bond yields, that's a recipe probably for outperformance in value sectors. And the value sectors presently are: financials, materials, and energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so let's break that down. Okay. So, let's start with financials.

Andrew Graham:
Banks have what's called ... make-most-of-their-money, the bulk of their money, on net interest margins. It's the difference between the rate that they borrow or receive their money from the Fed, and the rate that they earn on their loans.

Andrew Graham:
And, so, as short-term loans reset, they don't even need, really, to drive loan growth, although we see the beginnings of that happening in December and, again, here in Q1. They don't need to really get it out of loan growth. They can just reset their short-term loans, as they mature for those people rolling them over, and those loans at higher levels just reflecting where bond yields, short-term bond yields, are.

Andrew Graham:
So, again, deposits, they're not going to pay anything on deposits, let's assume. And they're going to be earning more for their loans. So, their net interest income, which is, again, the bulk of their earnings at a bank, is going to rise. And I see that going on for a while now.

Andrew Graham:
We, at Jackson Square Capital, have a preference for, sort of share takers, when it comes to the banks. And those are generally the regional banks, so not the super gigantic money centers that have been gobbling up community banks over the last, whatever, 20 or 30 years. It's the regional banks.

Andrew Graham:
And the ones that are most attractive, in our opinion, are the ones that are sort of high tech, high touch. And you can see them, just taking share in major markets like this one. So, in San Francisco where we sit, First Republic has been taking share for years. And we just see that continuing with lots of loan growth. So, we like First Republic, and we also like Silicon Valley Bank, also local. Again, taking share, lots of loan growth, lots of private equity cash, on the sidelines.

Andrew Graham:
And as that private equity money gets deployed in investments, they're going to make what they're called capital call loans, which are short-term loans. And, again, those will reset at higher rates.

Andrew Graham:
So, probably the bank that's the most sensitive to interest rates and that benefits the most, is Silicon Valley Bank.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. And the second equity sector that you mentioned to pay attention to is materials. Tell us more about that and why.

Andrew Graham:
So, materials are going to have the pricing power, the ability to benefit from their own pricing power. They have relative ... for sort of fixed costs. Most of these plants are built out. Some of these chemical companies, for example, Olin. There are some big barriers to entry. Some of them are dangerous products to make, but they are very necessary, and they have mostly industrial uses.

Andrew Graham:
So, if we're right, and inflation stays elevated, and the cycle has further to go. That's the recovery cycle, and we think it does, and I'll go into that if you'd like. Then there's more upside for those companies, as they have pricing power. And then there's an industrial, sort of recovery, narrative that goes on as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the third area you mentioned was energy.

Andrew Graham:
We expect energy stocks to outperform over the next, that six to nine-month window we discussed, and maybe beyond. There's some structural supply issues going on in the industry where, either from political pressures or pressure from shareholders to return capital, many of these oil and gas exploration and production companies, for example, are being incented to return capital to shareholders, rather than develop new production and drill new wells, for example.

Andrew Graham:
So, we expect, even if ... And we do expect U.S. oil and gas production to rise this year, in 2022, but we don't see it matching demand levels. So, look for elevated WTI crude prices, and beneficiaries there include the majors that pay big dividend yields, like the Exxon and the Chevron of the world, of course. And then in exploration and production companies, maybe like Marathon Petroleum, Ovintiv, also, is a midcap name that stands out.

Andrew Graham:
If oil prices stay just above $65, modeling that out, based on their ... based on Ovintiv's free cash flow generation from the past, they're going to have the ability to pay back the entire market cap of the company within five years. So, lots of opportunity there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I think, with respect to stocks in general, you've talked about the importance of paying attention to companies that give money back to shareholders, whether that be in the form of stock buybacks or in dividends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that is something that, at the end of the day, money is money, and they're giving people money. That's something that investors should pay attention to.

Andrew Graham:
I think so. I would say, with one qualifier, I think it works best in that energy sector. And the reason is, is that the decarbonization efforts are there for a reason.

Andrew Graham:
By the time you get out, 10 years, and again, I know we wish it was a shorter window, but saying you move out further and further, demand for alternative energy sources actually starts to kind of come together. The demand is there now. The problem is, there's just not the capacity to meet it. And, so, demand chooses the old forms right now. But as the substitutes become available, I think we'll see a shift.

Andrew Graham:
So, in most cases, our preference, when I was talking about banks, I chose two banks that don't return capital to shareholder in any big way. As a matter of fact, they raise capital. And the reason why our preference there, is those are longer-term investments. Both of those banks have outperformed the large cap money centers over the last two decades, and we expect it to continue in the current environment, probably at an accelerated rate because they do have loan growth.

Andrew Graham:
But I think an energy return of capital is a good plan, and it's a good thing, whether it's in the form of dividends or share repurchases and just, what are you going to do with all that free cash flow generation? So, it's got to go to the shareholders. And it's a meaningful way, I think, of hedging against elevated rates of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's just touch quickly on real estate because there's so many people frustrated by higher home prices. And look, we have to be realistic. You probably aren't going to make a ton of money if you're buying a home, just to live in or as an investment, anytime short term. But that doesn't mean it's not an area that people should be paying attention to.

Andrew Graham:
Yeah. If you look at the supply and demand within the housing world, there's just ... There is limited supply, and demand has been sort of running at a accelerated clip since there was glimmers of hope the pandemic might be ending.

Andrew Graham:
So, you've seen some sharp upticks in almost all geographic areas in this country. And I don't know if that's going to slow down here in the near term. So, we're kind of modeling in 12% home price appreciation for this year. And we think the economy can withstand that kind of appreciation. So, I don't think the affordability factor is going to mean much here in the near term.

Andrew Graham:
And in the short term, as bond yields rise, inflation's going up, so bond yields are rising. As bond yields rise, there's sort of a get-it-while-you-can attitude on the part of consumers to lock in their mortgage rates now, versus six, nine months, well into the future.

Andrew Graham:
So, you'll see, I think, accelerated pick-up in housing demand as, in the short term, as bond yields have already risen. And I think they can ... there's further room for bond yields to go higher.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, continued frustration for people looking to buy a home, but good news for real estate investors.

Andrew Graham:
I think so. Again, eventually, price cures price, but affordability, even though it's the worst it's been since the global financial crisis, affordability measures, they are nowhere near where they were leading into the global financial crisis.

Andrew Graham:
So, I don't think it's a cycle killing kind of thing, like I said before. And, so, yeah. It's going to be competitive, I think. Home-buying, home shopping is going to be competitive for the near term, and maybe even accelerate here, as bond yields have gone up, and people feel a need to get it done now, rather than later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Andrew, where can people learn more about you and Jackson Square Capital?

Andrew Graham:
You can go onto our website, of course, which is jacksonsquarecap.com. I write a daily email, which I think helps me stay informed. It's called Morning Notes, and you can sign up there if you'd like to receive it, but happy to be of help today. Thanks for having me on. I've been told I have a face for podcasting, so this is such a [inaudible 00:15:05].

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a lot of fun to have on. Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew Graham:
Anytime.

Bobbi Rebell:
There was a lot to take away from that. You were probably tempted to take notes, but if you're a regular listener, you know don't have to. We always have you covered with show notes and full transcripts on my website. Go to bobbirebell.com. That's B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
There, you will, of course, also find information about my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, as well as how to be in touch if you would like me to come speak to your organization. I have both virtual and in-person programs, that you can learn more about by clicking on Work with Bobbi. It's the tab on the upper right corner of my website. I hope to hear from you guys soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, I want to hear what you are investing in, as inflation continues to rise. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, I did what I didn't think I would ever do. I opened a TikTok account. I am still figuring it out. So, check out my videos, and give me some pointers. The handle is bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Jackson Square Capital's, Andrew Graham, for sharing some great insights on investing and helping us all be financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey, as a financial grown-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grown-up friends, and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grown-ups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The buzz on SPACs keeps building. Bobbi shares what is driving the trend, what a SPAC is, and what investors need to know about them. 

Pros of SPAC

#1: It lowers the risk of going public. Let’s face it: a lot can go wrong. Companies are worried that market volatility could tank their public debut. Merging with a SPAC gets them a capital influx much faster and easier. 

#2: It’s faster. Space have no financial history- so the only track record is the reputation of the management teams. For a company, merging with a SPAC can get them funding in a few months. The traditional IPO route which involves a lot of paperwork with the SEC can take as much as 6 months, sometimes longer. 

#3: More control over valuation. With a SPAC merger, the company can negotiate a fixed valuation with the sponsors. 

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Cons of SPAC

#1: Shady history.  Back in the 1980’s SPAC’s were known as  “Blank Check Companies” The industry was full of fraud, and known for scamming investors. A federal law was even passed to crack down on them. Now there are some guardrails in place- for example, if an investor does not approve of a company that the SPAC is merging with they can get their money back. 

#2: A successful SPAC can be incredibly lucrative for the for the sponsor, to the point where there is a concern that they might merge the SPAC with a less than ideal company just to get their big payday. Oh- and generally they have to make a deal within 2 years- so there’s a ticking clock to make something, sometimes anything, happen. 

#3: Investors should be aware that the company that has gone public by merging with the SPAC has not gone through the vetting process of doing all the financial audits and requirements that happen in a traditional initial public offering. So you have to wonder: what do you not know about the company? In other words, it is easier for the company, but riskier for the investor. 

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Financial Grownup Guide: What is a SPAC- and why it is such a hot trend on Wall Street

Hi friends!

If you pay attention to the money and investing related news, which you should be, you have probably been hearing about SPACS- which stands for special purpose acquisition company. They have actually been around for decades-but the buzz has really been building lately. Their rep is that they are last resorts for small companies to go public, because they couldn’t raise money on the open market. But that doesn’t really explain why they are having such a big moment right now. 

So here’s what we are going to go over in this episode:

-What is a SPAC

-Why would a company go public using a SPAC rather than the traditional route?

-What are SPACs so popular now- and what role did the global pandemic play in the trend?

-I'll tell you about the shady history of SPAC's

-What are the risks for investors?

Before we get into it- I do want to welcome everyone. If you are new- this is kind of a special episode. I do these solo episodes on occasion where I talk about a money topic- usually something in the news. 

But most of our episodes focus on having a role model as a guest- a financial grownup as we like to say, sharing a money story that had a big impact on their life and then the lessons we can all learn from their experience. We also have them share everyday money tips that we can put to work right away. If you enjoy this podcast I hope you will take a moment to subscribe, and share it with friends or family that you think might enjoy it. One easy way is just to take a screenshot of the show and share it on social media- and please tag me @bobbirebell1 on instagram so I can thank you. 

Back to SPACs. Let’s first go over exactly what a SPAC is- and is not. 

Think of a SPAC as a shell company set up to buy another company- except it doesn’t necessarily know what that company will be. Usually a team of investors raise the money first- but again- very often without a target company. It goes public as a Special Purpose Acquisition Company but it contains no company. All it has is money kept in a trust. 

Then we have companies that need money- and are on the hunt for the right way to get it. 

So to simplify- on one side we have money with no company, and on the other side we have a company, that it looking for money. 

This is different from the more common way for companies to raise big money in the public markets with a standard initial public offering. But that is really complicated- and expensive. There’s a ton of paperwork, financial audits and regulations. There are road shows, and pitch meetings with institutional investors. And it is super risky. Some of the risks the company can control, but the truth is the depending on what is going on in the world at the time the company wants to go public, a lot of how well that company will do- it can’t control. 

But they have become a really big trend on Wall Street recently. 242 SPACs were introduced in 2020, quadruple the number raised in 2019, according to SPAC Insider. The average size of a SPAC in 2020 was $335 million, that is almost  10 times the amount in 2009.

And there are some interesting reasons why that we are going to talk about. 

Reason #1: It lowers the risk of going public. Let’s face it: a lot can go wrong. Companies are worried that market volatility could tank their public debut. Merging with a SPAC gets them a capital influx much faster and easier. 

Reason #2: It’s faster. Space have no financial history- so the only track record is the reputation of the management teams. For a company, merging with a SPAC can get them funding in a few months. The traditional IPO route which involves a lot of paperwork with the SEC can take as much as 6 months, sometimes longer. 

Reason #3 More control over valuation. With a SPAC merger, the company can negotiate a fixed valuation with the sponsors. 

All this has a lot of appeal during the global pandemic, given how much uncertainty there has been in the global markets. It got a lot harder to raise money the traditional way. So SPAC’s can provide a viable option for capital starved companies to access funding. 

This all sounds great- so what’s the catch?

Well first- their shady history.  Back in the 1980’s SPAC’s were known as  “Blank Check Companies” The industry was full of fraud, and known for scamming investors. A federal law was even passed to crack down on them. Now there are some guardrails in place- for example, if an investor does not approve of a company that the SPAC is merging with they can get their money back. 

Second: A successful SPAC can be incredibly lucrative for the for the sponsor, to the point where there is a concern that they might merge the SPAC with a less than ideal company just to get their big payday. Oh- and generally they have to make a deal within 2 years- so there’s a ticking clock to make something, sometimes anything, happen. 

Third: Investors should be aware that the company that has gone public by merging with the SPAC has not gone through the vetting process of doing all the financial audits and requirements that happen in a traditional initial public offering. So you have to wonder: what do you not know about the company? In other words, it is easier for the company, but riskier for the investor. 

Which brings us to why you should be paying attention to the trend. In my opinion- and this is an opinion, we should look carefully at why a company would choose to go public this way. That does not mean it is not a good investment. It just means, it did not go through the traditional red tape. To be clear, many companies go through the red tape, and no one takes the time to read all the details of what they have disclosed to potential investors. 

That said, once a company is publicly traded, as the calendar mandates, it will have to comply with the laws regarding disclosure. So maybe, if you want to invest in a company that used a SPAC to go public, you might consider taking your time, and getting more information before you jump in. 

Before I let you go- a reminder that I am on a campaign to boost financial literacy by giving out free books. If you want to win a book that has been grownup list approved- all you need to do is either do a screen grab of the podcast while you are listening to it - and post it on instagram and tag me at bobbirebell1- or write a review on apple podcasts and email it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. You could win a book by one of the authors that has been on the show, or some of the merch from the grownupgear store which you can check out at grownupgear.com.

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Wealthy grownups use strategies to invest that are aimed at not just growing assets but also protecting their wealth in turbulent times, like we are currently experiencing with the coronavirus pandemic. Vince Annable walks us through his theories and previews his new book: The Household Endowment Model- Wealth Planning for Affluent Families.

5 Ways To Invest Like The Wealthy

1. Think beyond the 60/40 plan for stocks and bonds

2. Include alternative investments

3. Use non correlated investments

4. Focus on protection of assets

5. Take a holistic approach

Episode Links:

• Vince’s websites:

  • www.thehouseholdendowmentmodel.com

  • themusa.net

  • wsagaz.com

Follow Vince!

• Instagram - @themadvisors

• Twitter - @HH_Endowment

• Facebook - @thehouseholdendowmentmodel

• LinkedIn - @vince-annable

• LinkedIn - @the-household-endowment-model-llc

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

David Stein shares a sneak peak of the investing strategies from his new book, including how to differentiate between investing, speculating and gambling. He also discusses why you need to know who is on the other side of a trade, and the key factors that will make an investment profitable. 

3 Best Investing Tips

1. Know if a financial opportunity is investing, speculating or gambling

2. Know who is on the other side of the trade

3. Know what it takes to be successful

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• David’s website - moneyfortherestofus.com

• David’s book Money For The Rest Of Us

Follow David!

• Instagram - @moneyfortherestofus

• Facebook - @moneyfortherestofus

• Twitter - @jdstein

• YouTube - @MoneyFortheRestofUs

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Investing can be intimidating, but there are some simple basic steps that can put anyone on the path to success. NextGen Wealth founder Clint Haynes CFP® walks us through 8 steps to get started investing, including how to decide how long to own a stock, if and when you should pay fees, which stocks make sense with your goals, and how to understand the role emotions can play in our investment decisions. 

8 Steps to Becoming a Great DIY Investor

• Understand How to Invest for the Timeframe for Each Goal

• Understand the Role Your Emotions Play in Investing

• Your Investments Will Lose Money on Average Every 3-5 Years

• Each Goal Should Have Its Own Specific Portfolio/Bucket

• Rebalance Your Portfolio(s) at Least Annually

• Choose Investments with Low Fees and Expenses

• Don’t Reinvent the Wheel When Creating Your Own Portfolio(s)

• Monitor Your Investments Quarterly to Annually

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Clint’s website - www.nextgen-wealth.com

• Clint’s course - The Financial Freedom Blueprint Course

  • Special discount to Financial Grownup listeners of $300!! Discount will only last for the next 48 hours.

Follow Clint!

• Instagram - @clint_nextgen_wealth

• Facebook - @NextGenWealth

• Twitter - @Clint_NextGen

• Pinterest - @nextgenwealth

• LinkedIn - @nextgen-wealth

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ghost writer Stephanie Krikorian trusted a financial planner with her investments after a big layoff a decade ago. But years later discovered blind trust was costing her, and learned to read the paperwork, and take grownup ownership of her money strategy.  

Stephanie's money story:

Steph Krikorian:
So, basically, I get laid off and I did two quick things. I refinanced while I still had a paycheck coming in, because rates were down and they hadn't been for awhile. I thought that was a smart thing to do. Secondly, I went to this financial planner and merged several 401ks, because I had been at several jobs and never really paid much attention to it. I always put in the max that I could, et cetera. But I thought, "This will help me move it, and then I can focus on finding a job or starting a business, whichever I'm going to do."

Steph Krikorian:
I remember meeting with this financial planner and asking a very specific question, "How are you paid?" My understanding when I left that meeting, and I interview people for a living, so I feel fairly confident I was given a certain answer and didn't make that mistake, but maybe I did, my understanding was the payment for the financial planner was based on money I made, so that if I made 10%, the financial planner was paid a percentage of that. So, I do all these things, and I am on my own little austerity program. I'm doing a single pump of shampoo. You can read about all the crazy things I did to not waste money while I was trying to, you know, make sure I didn't overspend. ,I was trying to stay on my budget. I invested. I knew I had to save. Even when there was no money coming in, even though I cut everything else out, I scraped together a certain amount of money.

Steph Krikorian:
So, in the meantime, I start going on the Zen Bender, because I start reading self-help books. I've reinvented myself. I start reading self-help books. I start getting obsessed-

Bobbi Rebell:
This is all because you're ghostwriting a lot of them too, so you're really immersing yourself in your material.

Steph Krikorian:
That's how it started. I really was immersing myself in the material, because everybody has a book idea, and then they say, "Oh, it's like the Suze Orman of such and such or the Marie Kondo of such and such." So, I was reading for research, but as I read, I also got a little obsessed, because I said, "Oh my God. There's all these fixes out there. I must have all these holes in my life to fill. I'm single. I'm thick around the middle, because everyone wants to lose a few pounds. I'm trying to figure out my career." So, I started grasping at all these things a little more than necessary, as per the research.

Steph Krikorian:
So, I take my eye off the ball of what I think I had set up with the financial planner, and I spend hoards of money on Reiki, and rainbow healers, and dating coaches. You know, I could've basically probably gone to law school instead and done something productive. But all of this time I think, "You know, I've made my budget. I'm following the rules. I'm being careful." But somewhere in all that mishmash, kind of the point of the Zen Bender was I lost a little bit of confidence. I stopped trusting my gut and I kind of took my eye off the ball of the important things and ceded a lot of power to these ... you know, this dating coach who's telling me, "You've got to wear high heels and have shiny hair in order to find a husband, because he'll think you're fertile, and he'll want to marry you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And probably very expensive heels too.

Steph Krikorian:
[inaudible 00:06:24] I got $200 a pop, but if you do five, then of course X,Y,Z is going to happen. The doors will open up. I had started treating my business like a business. Even though it's writing, I formed an LLC. I have a lawyer. I outsource things like copy editing, because I wanted to only do the work that was mission-critical. So, I was making enough money. It wasn't like I was on my credit card doing this stuff. You know? There were lean years the first couple of years. Then I started getting on my feet and I started making enough money.

Steph Krikorian:
Somewhere in there I have a call from my financial planner. Also, in fairness, if I step back and look at it, she gave me a couple of pieces of advice which were, "Sell all your stock from your first job," which was General Electric stock, which at the time was not a good suggestion, and, "Dump this apartment, even at a loss." I disregarded both pieces of advice. I was not going to dump that apartment at a loss. I was going to make my payments, and I was going to save it, that investment. So, I didn't take that warning sign, you know? That should have made me a little nervous, and it didn't, because I knew better. I'd worked in financial news, like you, and I knew that wasn't right. Every year I'm putting together the maximum I can scrape in and put in, but nothing's really moving in the fund. I'm in one of those funds as you age, you know, with the term and the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
The target date fund, which sometimes have double fees. Sometimes those can be very expensive.

Steph Krikorian:
Right. It didn't seem to be doing a lot, and I thought, "Oh, it must just be the time, you know. Whatever." So, we have this call and she suggests, since I've reached a certain milestone, she explains there's this, you know, almost like a fund of funds with these various ETFs in the same thing. It sort of ages as you go and it's really something to consider. I said, "Okay. Great. I guess so. Sure." She said, "And the fee is so much less. It's almost half,| or whatever. I say, "Oh, what's the fee been generally, because it shouldn't ... you know, we haven't made a lot of money, so it couldn't possibly be very high." She tells me the percentage, and I do the math, and I get furious.

Steph Krikorian:
I'm like, "Wait a minute. You're charging more out of my fund than I'm depositing every year. You should have seen that." You know, she said, "Well, I don't keep track of who's putting in more or who's not." I'm like, "That's your single job. That's like your only job, to be ... Maybe you should've stopped and said, 'Hey. I don't think you need to be in here. Just go to Fidelity and buy a fund.'" I was mad at her, but honestly I was more mad at myself, because the one thing I probably should have spent the time on was understanding what was going on there. But I got so lost in the haze of all the chaos and life change that was happening, that I trusted the professional to handle it, and I don't think ... She didn't do anything negligent or anything like that. She did what she told me she would do. It's just I didn't double check. I think you have to stay on top of these things, because the single most important thing is your money, period. It really is.

“Nobody reads the fine print. So you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check in and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. ”

Stephanie’s money lesson:

Steph Krikorian:
Double check, double check, double check, and then quarterly, when you have those check-ins, check, and maybe you're smarter than the experts. Maybe if you're in a single fund, investigate the other ways to invest in that single fund, so that you don't pay the load that you're paying a financial planner,` who has much wealthier clients to make money off of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was she a fiduciary? Do you know? Was she a CFP? Was she a fiduciary?

Steph Krikorian:
Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Steph Krikorian:
Yeah. It was a big firm and all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She did her job.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she informed you. You just didn't hear I guess is what you're saying.

Steph Krikorian:
I misunderstood at the beginning and I was an early client.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a financial journalist.

Steph Krikorian:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness, Stephanie. What hope is there for everybody else?

Steph Krikorian:
I know, and I wonder. I was an early client of hers, and she was just starting out. I liked her, because she was woman and she was new, and people were giving me a chance, and I gave her a chance. I still don't regret that, but I think, you know, these things aren't transparent. You can't tell how much you pay. In fairness to anybody, it's hard to tell what percentage you're paying in these things. So, I think you have to ask those questions regularly, because things also change, and nobody reads the fine print. So, you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check-in, and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. I check my bank account to see ... You know, my bank account got hacked. If I didn't check as frequently as I did, I would never have known. So, you-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Steph Krikorian:
It did. Yeah. They had my name. They had my bank account. Must've been off a piece of paper or a bill. They were trying to get in there. They didn't get anything. But, so, you have to always check. Nothing to do with your money should ever be on autopilot, even paying your bills. You know, you can miss a bill, because autopilot is not the way to go, and that's for your financial planning and your daily accounts. You got to keep a tally.

“Walking solves all my problems… It helps creatively, it helps anxiety.. and saves some money. ”

Stephanie's everyday money tip:

Steph Krikorian:
So, you can get really caught up into these things. The average price for any of these sessions is $200. It's very easy to get-

Bobbi Rebell:
For what? I'm sorry. $200 for what?

Steph Krikorian:
Like Reiki, the astrologist, acupuncture. $200 seems to be the going rate of 2019, and buying five packs is very easy to get caught up. I would say this. Try anything, because there's a placebo effect or you find it inspiring. Try anything once. Don't buy the five packs. Just try it and see, and then step away and think of it. Don't get caught up in it. But more importantly, what I found, after all of the sessions, and all of the coaches, and thousands of dollars on a dating coach, I'm still single.

Steph Krikorian:
All the diets I tried and paid for and I think of how much per pound I've spent trying to lose the same 5, 10 pounds. Go for a walk, and then go for another walk, and then walk for more, longer, longer, longer. Walking solves all my problems, and it took me ... I knew that at the beginning, and then I didn't figure it out until the end, but it helps creatively. It helps anxiety. It does the same trick as some of this other stuff does, and it helps you work out, and it's good for your health, and so do that. That's my suggestion. Save some money. Do everything that you want to do, but just once in a while. Don't go on a Zen Bender, like I did, and hit it all hard, all at once, all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing advice, and it's so true about walking. I get all my best ideas when I'm walking. It's also a great way to socialize, instead of going somewhere and spending money on food that will cost you money and weight.

Steph Krikorian:
What was the scariest thing to write? Oh, a lot of it was scary. It set out to be a book on humor, you know, a humor book on all these crazy things I tried, and then as I wrote it, I'm like thinking, "Well, why did I do that?" I think a couple of things, quickly, how much weight has held me back in life. You know, we all wish we were a little thinner I think. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Me.

Steph Krikorian:
I think-

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm raising my hand.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly. And we all wish that we could drop a few pounds, and I spent a little bit too much time obsessing about that. That was sort of disappointing, and I was surprised I was able to put that on the page, because I really don't like to talk about it. I think being single, you know, I kind of likened the dating at ... I'm 50 now, but this whole book took place in my 40s. It's like shopping at Marshall's or T.J.Maxx. Everything is picked over. It's like seconds right now. So, that was a lot for me to talk about. You know, I had a hard time with that.

Steph Krikorian:
The realization I came to through writing and through discussing it is that after doing the Marie Kondo, I Marie Kondo'd, the living crap out of my house, including my freezer, did the doors open up? I don't know, but I learned to say no to things that didn't bring me joy. I don't think that was her intent in the book. I think that was, as interesting as ... It wasn't a hard to write about that, but it was an interesting learning experience for me that that takeaway kind of came through the process of trying to be funny about folding my socks, rolling my socks a certain way, that all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have a hard time saying no to things. Now, I'm a little better at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all working on that. I think that's a big theme these days is sometimes it's okay to just decline an invitation, even if you don't have a conflict. Just say, "I'm sorry. I can't make it," and don't elaborate.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly.

“After doing the Marie Kondo..  I learned to say no to things that didn’t bring me joy.. that takeaway kind of came through the process of rolling my socks a certain way that I realized I have a hard time saying no to things.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one.:

Buy what you want if you want to be trying things. That's always all good. But when Stephanie talks about buying the five packs, that applies to pretty much any upsell that you get in life. Yes. You do get a better price per item, but you also get more items than you want or need.

Financial grownup tip number two:

If you aren't sure that you understand how someone controlling your money gets paid, keep asking until you are beyond 100% sure. Stephanie is educated and smart and was literally writing about money for her job, but she made assumptions that were not correct.

As a financial grownup, I love that she takes ownership that maybe she didn't understand what she thought she did. It can happen to any of us, if it can happen to Stephanie. Read, and reread, and then, as Stephanie recommends, go do regular check-ins, as she now does, and of course be careful with automation. It is a great tool for regular bills and such, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be checking as well. How are you doing on this front? Do you understand how people or companies that hold your money ore paid? Is free really free if there are maybe commissions or fees in there that you may not know about. Maybe they're disclosed in very tiny print, because if something is truly free, well, then how is the company making money? You need to ask what is going on on the other side.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Stephanie’s website http://stephaniekrikorian.com/

• Stephanie’s book ZenBender

Follow Stephanie!

• Instagram - @stephiekrik

• Facebook - @skrikorian

• Twitter - @stephiekrik

• LinkedIn - @stephaniekrikorian

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry joins Bobbi with 3 specific things you can do today to upgrade your investing strategy, along with her take on how to be a successful investor.  For example: How much should you be paying for your investments? How long should you set it and forget it- when do you check in on your investments? What is an investment audit? Are all index funds the same? Plus a preview of her new book “Broke Millennial Takes on Investing’ . How to tell if your goals are in line with the investment choices you are making? And what to do if you don’t understand an investment term but don’t want to ask. 

Here are the 3 things you must know about actionable investing tips

• Increase contributions in small increments

• Pay attention to expense ratios- they matter so much

• write down goals and check in once a year

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

• Jill Schlesinger's Financial Grownup episode

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Steph Paternot make a virtual fortune when the internet startup he co-founded in college, TheGlobe.com set records on its first trading day. But he and his company paid the price when his personal brand image as a brash young hard- partying entrepreneur pulled attention away from the business fundamentals. 

In Stephan's money story you will learn:

• Why it may not be a good idea to dance on tables during an interview

• Sometimes a lot of publicity isn't always the best publicity

• The documentary that CNN did on him that he and his company ended up paying the price for

In Stephan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to be careful not to overdramatize your story

• The importance of staying focused on your business

In Stephan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why you don't want to fall into the FOMO mentally when it comes to investing

In My Take you will learn:

• The reason that the expression "Dance like no one is watching" doesn't really work in this day and age

• Why it's so important to get back up after you fail

Check out Stephan's website -

• Slated

Follow Stephan!

• Instagram @stephanpaternot

• LinkedIn @stephanpaternot

• Twitter @stephanpaternot

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Steph Paternot:
The cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs. We maybe shouldn't trust them. You know, maybe they're too crazy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, how much thought do you give to your personal brand? To the images that you post on social media, or that are posted about you, with you in them, that you are tagged in? Do you think it impacts your career, or your future career, your business if you're an entrepreneur, your life? What would it have been like if social media weren't even around yet, and yet you were the one creating social media? It's very meta, but so is this whole interview, because I actually interviewed our guest who was the CEO of a company called theGlobe.com, the co-founder Steph Paternot back in the dotcom boom and bust.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I remember all the buzz that he got, it wasn't always focused on his company, a lot of it was on his personal life, on his clubbing, and even what he wore when he was out of the clubs. Kind of like many young adults who are in their 20s, that was a thing that people were doing at the time, he was quite normal, except most of those other 20 somethings, I'd say pretty much all of those other 20 somethings, were not worth close to $100 million on paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. If you are new, so glad you are joining us. We talk to high achievers here on the Financial Grownup podcast, they share unique money stories, and how we can learn from them, and also some every day money tips. Let's get to Steph Paternot, and the time that he and his co-founder, Todd Krizelman, were literally in college, and it should be noted that they did not drop out by the way, while they were building their company, theGlobe.com. Now they stayed in college specifically because it wasn't so clear that this internet was gonna be a thing, Steph actually said that. He really wasn't sure that the internet would be a thing that would actually be a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, stay to the end to hear more about what Steph is up to now, he is disrupting a new industry, and I think you're gonna be very interested. Here is Steph Paternot. Hey Steph Paternot, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Steph Paternot:
Good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading the re-released, new and improved, version of your book, A Very Public Offering: The Story of Theglobe.com and the First Internet Revolution, it was a total page turner, and I'm glad it got re-released, in large part because of a new series that features you, and someone playing the part of you which we'll talk about, it's a little bit weird, National Geographic series, Valley of the Boom, which I am truly enjoying. So welcome.

Steph Paternot:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, what was it like when you found out that they were casting someone to play you? Is that weird?

Steph Paternot:
Oh it was weird. I was shocked, because they had already engaged with me to come and participate in their documentary interview, and I'd already put in hours of being interviewed. In my mind it was nothing more than an expanded sort of news segment, or a documentary about the past. Since my current company, Slated, is in the film industry, I have a lot of film industry contacts, and the last thing I expected was to hear from film industry friends who were like, "Hey Steph, I just got this casting notice," I have friends who are casting directors and actors. Both parties were getting in touch with me saying, "Oh yeah so they're looking for a young, charismatic, actor to play a Steph Paternot, and another to play Mark Andreason, and a Todd Krizelman." And that's when I realized, "Oh my god I had just been pulled into something that I had no idea about."

Bobbi Rebell:
I gotta tell you Steph, your story doesn't need a whole lot of embellishment. And I'm excited about the money story that you're gonna share, because it has to do with personal branding, and the impact that can have on your financial success, or failure, of your company. And this all happened before social media was a thing. I mean you guys were inventing social media, and yet, this is kinda meta stuff I think. Tell us your money story.

Steph Paternot:
CNN decided to do a documentary on us, where they wanted to follow us, and see what the life was of a public company, dotcom CEO who's 24. And they followed Todd out to the Hamptons, where he had organized an impromptu badminton game, and a barbecue, and it was all very quaint. And then I decided, well I'll go show them what I've been doing when I need to let off steam," and that is to go clubbing, and why don't I kick it up a notch, and for once I'll wear these crazy vinyl black pants I bought, that'll make the story sexier.

Steph Paternot:
They also recorded me at my home, and one of the producers when I was off camera had asked me like, "Oh my gosh, so are you ready to live it up Steph now? I mean now that you're a billionaire are you ready to live it up?" And being that I'd grown up in England and I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, I just played along and said, "Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm ready to live a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle. That's the idea right?" And the filmed me going out to a nightclub and dancing on the tables. And I made sure really sort of to give them exactly the visual story I knew that would play well, and would be what their audience wants to believe about these dotcom days, and their juxtaposition of me dancing on the tables with this audio clip of me talking about a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle, they played that on CNN.

Steph Paternot:
Then they put that all summer long, it kept playing over and over as the hot dotcom-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my.

Steph Paternot:
I got so much [inaudible 00:00:00] from so many people, including my partner saying, "Why would you say that? Why would you do that." I was like, "Look this is all part of building the brand of the company, and living the life that they want to imagine we live." And by the way, not for nothing, but since this has been airing we've had tens of thousands more users sign up to our site. But the cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we've got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs, we maybe shouldn't trust them." People love to look for reasons when something isn't going well, of why it's not going well. And if you give the media, or if you give an audience one reason to dislike you, or to paint you with to say why everything's going badly, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Steph what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Steph Paternot:
Be careful of taking your story, or over selling, or over dramatizing, or doing something like what I did, where you gave them a cool visual and a ridiculous piece of audio. And you're giving them something they can hit you on the head with later.

Bobbi Rebell:
And do you feel it hurt your finances? Did it hurt your ability to go back for more money, and other things? Did it hurt the image? It seems like it helped to drive users to your website, but there's two sides of the business that were going on.

Steph Paternot:
Yeah, so the truth is, is that if your business fails it's not because you once wore plastic pants on a T.V. show. If your business fails, that's what people will say, because it's just easy to paint people with ... the simplest character assassination is what people like to use. But the truth is, is if your business is failing, it's usually because either your customers aren't satisfied by the product, or your advertisers are fleeing, or there's not enough revenue in the market to cover the costs of your business and your infrastructure. So the reasons theGlobe failed, ultimately, have very little to do with one particular interview segment. That just simply gave people ammunition to become haters, and troll us.

Steph Paternot:
There's so many other factors that can bring down your business. I think the takeaway her is, stay focused on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you wanted to talk about an acronym that I don't know even existed back in the day, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Steph Paternot:
FOMO, I think the term got coined in the late 90s, the fear of missing out, meant that you're operating often from a place of fear. If you're seeing everyone get rich quick because they're investing in dotcoms, well then you're gonna be apt to wanna quickly invest in anything with a dotcom as well, and you're gonna throw your money at a bunch of dotcom stuff. And for a while it's probably gonna grow, and you're gonna feel okay, until you realize that you had no clue what you were investing in. And when the market craps out, you go down with it. So you don't wanna invest ever because you're seeing everyone else getting rich from a particular area.

Steph Paternot:
By the way, that just happened in 2017 with the crypto space, right. Everyone was getting into ICOs, everyone was operating from a place of fear, if you don't invest you're gonna be poor, you gotta invest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your latest venture, Slated, tell us more about that and the other projects that you have on deck.

Steph Paternot:
I decided every movie getting made shouldn't be a miracle. There should be much more a method to the madness of filmmaking. And there's probably a much more intelligent way that people in this industry should be able to find great projects, assemble teams, find financing, and execute on their vision. And I saw this occurring in the tech space, with marketplaces like AngelList, which were making it way easier for anyone to set up a startup, find talent, find financing, discover what the growth metrics were that were important, and really grow a successful business.

Steph Paternot:
And so we took the model of AngelList, we reinvented it for the film industry, and now Slated is the leading on-line film finance marketplace. Half of all the movies that have been nominated for Academy awards the last few years are made by Slated producers, directors, writers. And we're just increasingly getting those successful filmmakers to put their next films on Slated, and getting those financed. So it took me a long time to put my CEO hat back on, and to find my passions that married film, technology, the reinvention of money on-line, and marry those all together, and really take a shot again at building a company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well congratulations on your success throughout the decades, because you really have had such an incredible run, and you're still just beginning with new projects. Where can people find out more?

Steph Paternot:
They can find me on Twitter, @stephanpaternot, or in Instagram @stephanpaternot, or on Facebook as Stephan Paternot.

Bobbi Rebell:
If only it was at theGlobe.com, oh what could have been Steph.

Steph Paternot:
What could've been, yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But thank you so much, this was great.

Steph Paternot:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
What an amazing story. Financial Grownup tip number one, you know that expression, "Dance like no one is watching." So freeing, so empowering, so not realistic in this day and age, because you know everyone's watching. Unfortunately you have to live like someone is watching. Like it or not, the lines are blurring between our work and personal, and something you think you do only amongst friends could be public faster than you can click post. Act appropriate. If you have a finsta, that's a fake Instagram, I get it. Just remember, it's still out there, and you just never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you fail, get up. Steph was down, ooh $100 million, yes it was all on paper, but it sure felt real to him. He has done so much since those days, and because he kept strong relationships with the investors that believed in him, he was able to start new businesses, new investments, and have new success. Keep an eye on Steph, and his film finance business Slated, I expect to continue to see big things, lots of disruption happening in that industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for all of your support, of not just Financial Grownup, but my new podcast, Money in the Morning with Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins fame. Truly appreciate if you tell your friends, and subscribe to both. And big thanks to Steph Paternot for helping us all get one step close to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.