Naseema McElroy candidly shares her experiences paying off debt and building a financial foundation, and how that journey allowed her to break free from both a toxic work environment and an abusive relationship. 

Naseema’s Money Story:

Naseema McElroy:
When I started on this journey, I was single. I was a single mom with my daughter, and as I was starting to pay down debt, I did get married. It was a very short marriage because it was abusive. He ended up having to go to jail. And then I had to go through that divorce process. But if I hadn't had my finances in order during that process, it could have dragged out. I could have stayed in that relationship because of financial dependency. And so I thank God that I was already on that journey so I could step away.

Naseema McElroy:
Shortly after that, I transitioned to a different facility for the same organization that I was working for and was experiencing and witnessing a lot of medical malpractice, especially in regards to maternal morbidity, not to the point of mortality, but almost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you explain what you mean by that?

Naseema McElroy:
Yeah. In this country, we have higher rates of black women dying and being seriously injured from just giving birth. And it's very prevalent in certain areas. And in this particular hospital I was working with, it was prevalent and I was speaking up against it. That wasn't well accepted or received.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was happening? They weren't getting good medical care? Tell us more about that, because that is something that we don't know about. I want to know more about that.

Naseema McElroy:
Yeah. So it's very common and that's probably why I'm not being as specific as you want because everybody knows this, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Are they not getting the right? I mean, look, we're both moms, are they not getting the right medical care? And why? Is it a cost cutting decision in the hospital? What is going on? What's not happening?

Naseema McElroy:
It's implicit bias. It's just the way that you handle two different patients, right? So I'll give you an example. I have a mom that's in labor. She's trying to have a vaginal delivery after she had a C-section, which has serious implications, has to be monitored carefully. She's telling me that she's having a lot of pain and I'm prepping her to go to the OR. This doesn't feel right, let's go. The attending walks in the room and she's like, "Oh, so you're in pain now? You're in actual pain now because you're actually in labor and this is what you wanted." So instead of doing the C-section right then, she waited hours to do the C-section, went and did the C-section. And then the baby was hanging out of her uterus with both her and her baby could have died.

Naseema McElroy:
So these things were happening over and over again, over a short period of time. And when I spoke up about it, I was basically told to shut up, and I didn't know what I was talking about. And I had been a labor and delivery nurse for years and had never had my judgment questioned. And so I know that that was an environment that I had to leave because I already tried to speak out. But I was at a position financially where I didn't have to have that job, and so I left. And then when I left in the back end, I did some actions in order to make sure that they corrected their mistakes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank God for that. So you had the choice to leave this horrific job environment, which by the way, thank you for speaking up so candidly, and thank you for following up after you left. Because I know that probably many women benefited, families benefited, children benefited from that. In terms of you, because we want to focus on you on this podcast, you had the financial freedom. So tell us the steps that you went through. You had the financial freedom to leave an abusive relationship. And by the way, divorce is never cheap, as we know.

Naseema McElroy:
Even for that short amount of time. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it's almost many divorces last more than marriages. But also leaving so many people are stuck in jobs that they're trapped because they don't have the finances to have the freedom to leave. Tell us, what were you doing specifically, you had $200,000 of student debt and other debt you've alluded to. How did you get control of that so that you could leave both an abusive relationship and a toxic job?

Naseema McElroy:
Well, ironically, I thought it was because I didn't know how to invest my money and that's why I wasn't good with money, and I always thought that investing took like this college degree to learn how to do. And so, I listened to podcasts. I had a long commute and so I Googled investing podcasts and stumbled upon Dave Ramsey, ironically. So I actually started listening to Dave Ramsey and followed his baby steps to start getting out of debt, and that helped me accelerate my debt pay off. And so in just two years, I was able to pay off most of my student loans. Then I was going through my divorce at that time. And then during that divorce, I had to pay, I forgot, $20,000 in debt towards, well, it was basically a car that I had paid off. But anyway, I had to pay my husband, even though it was an abusive relationship, he was in jail. They don't care, so I had to pay him.

Naseema McElroy:
And then, because of the way I was doing and following Dave Ramsey's plan, because I was gung ho, I had a $30,000 IRS debt. So I was almost finished paying off all my debt. And that's just snowballing. I did sell a house in the beginning of the process. That helped accelerate that process, but it was just debt snowballing, zero based budgeting my way. And then finally at the end of it, I had a choice to sell my house and, and people are like, why would you sell your house? I had to really think about this. It's like, a lot of stuff happened in that house, especially with my marriage. And so I was able to walk away from that house pretty easily, even though it was a really nice house. And so I sold my house at the end when I had about $50,000 left in debt and then that cleared out everything.

Naseema McElroy:
And so that's all the debt that I paid off. And so all that stuff took place over a matter of three years. And then at the end of those three years, when I sold my house, I moved, I relocated back to my hometown and that's where I was in that toxic work environment. But at this point I was like, I was on wealth accumulation instead of debt payoff. And so I actually stepped back and only went down to working six days a month. And that was a freedom that I had.

Naseema McElroy:
So financial freedom is not about reaching like this fire number that you might hear out there. It's about the levels of independence that you get to take along the way. And my independence was being able to spend time with my family, be free from this toxic work environment, be out of that bad relationship, be able to recover from all the stuff that happened to me over the years and only work six days a month and still make a pretty good living.

Naseema’s Money Lesson:

Naseema McElroy:
The money lesson is being intentional with your finances unlocks levels of freedom in your life for you to live your life by intention, to be able to walk away from those things.

Naseema’s Money Tip:

Naseema McElroy:
For me, I like nice things. And so I don't skimp on my cars for example. I drive a Tesla. During the whole process of me paying down debt, I took my daughter to Disneyland every other month, but that was super important to me, but it was part of my budget. And so it still fits within whatever financial goals I have, but I don't live in deprivation.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Naseema created choices when she needed them, because she had made the grownup decision ahead of those situations to get control of her finances. Don't wait for the rainy day to have that umbrella handy, guys.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

As Naseema said, Teslas are pricey, but you know what? If you want an electric car, which will allow you of course, to save on gas and be better for the environment, don't forget there are many other electric cars out there to choose from. Happy shopping.

Episode Links:

• Naseema’s website - www.financiallyintentional.com/

Follow Naseema!

• Instagram - @financiallyinte

• Twitter - @financialintent

• Facebook - @nursesonfire

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Financial Anxiety is surging in the wake the coronavirus crisis. Here are some ways to manage it and get through it without making financial moves you will later regret. 

Some ways you can manage financial anxiety:

• Resist the urge to do something - like sell stocks- just for the sake of doing something

• Be sure that you are making regular contributions through your paycheck to your retirement account

• if you aren’t already, automate as much of your finances as you can- including debt repayments and savings.

• Try to lower your interest rates on any debt you have

• Spend time at home with family

• Catch up on some reading

• Watch a movie at home (throw in some popcorn if you want)

• Take a walk in the park or around your neighborhood

• Listen to some music

• Practice some meditation

• Talk with a Financial and/or Mental Health Therapist- Many of which are available remotely

• Anti-Anxiety Medications- After talking with your doctor, of course

• Be mindful about where you are getting your news

• Do the things you meant to do, but could never find the time

Stay healthy everyone!

Episode Links:

• Headspace app

• Tally

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author, Podcast host and Entrepreneur magazine’s Editor in Chief Jason Feifer shares specifically how he raised his speaking fees, and confesses to a massive and very un-grownup recent financial blunder.

Jason’s Money Story:

Jason Feifer:
So I had done a lot of unpaid public speaking and then felt like it was time to actually start charging for this. And I didn't know how to because I was genuinely uncomfortable saying you should pay me for this. Actually, I just hadn't really done that. It's weird. I have been very successful in my career. I have a high profile job, but the ways that I've been paid have largely been these very established methods. I get a salary and that is it.

Jason Feifer:
And now here, I am telling someone, you have asked me to do a thing, I know that I could do it for free because I've done it before, and you probably know that too. But instead I'm going to set a very high fee and expect that you pay me that. And I was so uncomfortable doing that that I kept undervaluing myself. I had a friend who's in this industry who had told me what my value would be and I just literally couldn't say it to people. And so I was telling them half or a quarter of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did this evolve? So someone reaches out and says, Jason, we want you to speak at our events. What happens next?

Jason Feifer:
So here's how the conversation would start at the beginning of this. Somebody would invite me to their event and I would gush over the event. And I would tell them how excited I could be, and we would talk about literally everything except for money. And then, they would bring up the money, and then I would have a number in my head that I was supposed to say and that I couldn't say it, and I said something lower. And that is not what happens now. What happens now is that, very upfront, as soon as somebody reaches out to me, I say, do you have a speaker budget for this?

Jason Feifer:
And sometimes I will also say, do you ever speak your budget for this? I would do this for free if I could, but I have two kids and a very busy job and I can only do these kinds of things if there's compensation. Sometimes they don't. But oftentimes, they do. They say they have a budget and then they'll ask me what the budget is, or what my fee is, and I'll tell them. And I'm just really upfront about it because that is my worth, and I have over time taught myself that I am worth something and that there's no shame in being worth something. But it took a long time to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the tipping point?

Jason Feifer:
The tipping point was actually my wife getting extremely annoyed that I was leaving New York to go speak at these things and not getting as much as she thought I probably could get. But honestly, it was talking to other people and seeing what they were being paid and realizing that I was doing the same work, and I was I think better than a lot of them, and yet I was getting paid less. And that told me, most importantly, that I could stand up for my own value and I wouldn't put other people off.

Jason Feifer:
The thing is you don't know what the marketplace is and so you don't know what people are willing to pay and you are afraid. Everybody's afraid, I think, of showing themselves to be too full of hubris, and say I'm worth this crazy amount of money, and that people will look at you. It'd be like, no, you're actually just a jerk. But once you understand the marketplace and you get a sense of what people actually will pay, then you realize, Oh no, wait a second, I am valuable and I'm not being obnoxious in my value. I'm just being straightforward in my value.

Bobbi Rebell:
But how do you know what the marketplace is? And for example, in the market that you're talking about, which is speaking, which is very often doing keynote speeches, moderating panels, emceeing events. There's no database where everyone says what they make. How do you know?

Jason Feifer:
No, there's no database. I wish there was a database, but there are a lot of people who do it, or there are a lot of people who work with people who do it. And so, I just started asking everybody. Every single person who I interacted with at any event or just in the course of my work, we would start talking about speaking and I would just start asking them either, are you willing to share what you make or are you willing to share what the ballpark is for people in our range or whatever.

Jason Feifer:
Because the thing is that people do not volunteer this information upfront because I think oftentimes people are uncomfortable sharing numbers and being the one to broach that subject. But if you open up the door to it, a lot of people actually are fine sharing information because they understand that information is power for everybody. And if they share something with you, you'll share something with them. And just starting that conversation and having so many of those conversations, you start to triangulate what your value is or what other people did to get more valuable, which is also so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was that? What did people do to get more valuable?

Jason Feifer:
Well, one of the things that they did is that they did a lot of add ons. That was not something that was intuitive to me. So you would go to an event and you'd find some fee, but then you would start upselling people. You'd be like, I'd be happy to come in the evening before and have a dinner with your sponsors or whatever. I'm around. Is that something you'd be interested in because we could just throw on an additional fee for that? And people are happy to do it. And that's how I've upped my fee often for taking time that I would be... What would else would I be doing? I might as well be having dinner with somebody and making a little extra money.

Jason Feifer:
But yeah, it was a lot of add ons. I found that the key to the add ons is not just that you're willing to do stuff, but that you're showing them that you're invested in them and invested in helping their whatever it is be as successful as possible. And so, here they have an asset. The asset is you, and there are two ways that asset could be, it could either somebody who just blows through and doesn't really care and just collects the check or, someone who says, hey, I've invested, I care, I want to do what's great for you. It's going to cost a little bit more, but I'm there and I want to do it. And I think that they also want to pay me just because they like me and that matters.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you handle it when someone says, I don't have the budget that you're asking for it.

Jason Feifer:
So I take it on a case by case. Is it something that I really want to do? Is there some other value that I can extract from them? Because sometimes, there is. I could, for example say, Oh, I'll do it for this lesser fee that you're offering, but can you buy copies of my book? Can you buy some subscriptions to the magazine for people who are attending? Can you give me the email addresses of everyone in attendance so that I can follow up with them and maybe get them to sign up for my newsletter or whatever. If there's something that makes sense for me for other reasons and it doesn't really put me out, I'll do it for a little less.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?

“I have over time taught myself that I am worth something and there is no shame in being worth something but it took a long time to get there.”

Jason’s Money Lesson:

Jason Feifer:
The lesson is lead with value and be confident in your value. I hear from people a lot, if I could just turn it around as me as a recipient of people pitching, I hear from people a lot who want a lot of things from me. They're pitching me because they want me to write about their company or they're pitching me because they want me to assign them a story or whatever. And a phrase that they use all the time, I literally just read about this in the magazine, a phrase they use all the time when they write to me is, let me know if you ever need a dot dot dot. Let me know if you ever need a writer. Let me know if you ever need a good story. Let me know if you ever need a customer service solution or whatever it is.

Jason Feifer:
And that is a terrible, terrible way to pitch yourself because it actually puts the sales onus on me, the person who's supposed to be sold to. Now, I have to research them and go back to them and say, Oh, you know what I actually do. Here's the thing; nobody ever just needs a blah, blah, blah. They never do. I am full of writers. I am full of stories. I don't need any more of them. So why would I take any more of them? Because if somebody comes to me and isn't shy about their value and is instead value forward, if they understand what I'm looking for and what kind of value they can provide to me, if they're upfront about that and good at communicating that, then I see the value and I want the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such great advice. Let's move on to your everyday money tip because, Jason, you're being very brave. You're going to admit to having done something that you're no longer doing, right?

“I was doing the same work and I think better than they were and I was being paid less. And that told me that I could stand up for my own value and I wouldn’t put other people off.”

Jason’s Money Tip:

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your everyday money tip because, Jason, you're being very brave. You're going to admit to having done something that you're no longer doing, right?

Jason Feifer:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
... that costs you thousands of dollars. Tell us your everyday money. Thousands of dollars. Oh my goodness.

Jason Feifer:
I know. I'm so embarrassed and annoyed that I have done this. It is the most basic piece of advice. Look at your statements... Go through them line by line, your credit card statements. There were some services that I had signed up for that I either forgot about or in one case it was a fairly expensive service that I thought I had signed up for a month of, but it turns out it was a recurring fee.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, that's your worst nightmare. And can you get them to refund a few months back at least? Is there any recourse at that point? because you clearly weren't using it. Do you want to tell us what kind of thing it was? Was it a really expensive magazine, Jason?

Jason Feifer:
No, it was a social media management thing. It was $400 a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God. Oh my God. How many months did this go on, Jason?

Jason Feifer:
Ten.

Bobbi Rebell:
You didn't catch a $400 charge for ten months?

Jason Feifer:
No, I didn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason.

Jason Feifer:
I know, it's awful. It's awful. And now you're like, what kind of completely irresponsible financial person is this? And the answer is that I do too many things myself and I have a number of different income streams from speaking and podcasting and I'm just throwing it all into the same account and I just wasn't being mindful of where the number was. And so there was this giant hole being poked in my finances, and it was just pouring out $400 a month.

Jason Feifer:
I contacted the company and they were not really willing to be helpful, and I've gotten in touch with the head guy. And he just kept putting me off and putting me off, and I can tell what's happening, which is that he's hoping that he is going to wait me out, and that I'm going to just give up on this and forget about it. And so, I literally have on my reminders app that tells me all the things that I should be doing. One of them is to keep texting this guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is unresolved right now. So you're not paying ongoing, but you've now paid 10 months, you paid $4,000 to this company?

Jason Feifer:
That's right, and I proposed a deal to them too, and I just haven't gotten the money back. I'm a little resolved to just eat it as a very, very expensive lesson in keeping tabs on your credit card forms. But I am also going to text this dude for the rest of my life demanding my money back.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you can automate that. So Jason's going to un-automate his bill paying and he's going to automate, I'm sure there's an app you can download that can charge you another monthly fee to automatically text this guy. I'm going to text him for you, too.

“If you open up the door to it, a lot of people actually are fine sharing information because they understand that information is power for everybody. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Like Jason did, work up the courage to ask, but also, as he did, keep it reasonable so you can get to the yes. People ask how I got such high profile people to be in my book, How To Be A Financial Grownup; those included Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank, designer Cynthia Rowley, and even Tony Robbins. A lot of it was simply working up the courage to ask, but I also kept the ask really simple. It was two questions, similar format to this podcast. You'll have more success if you ask for something that's easier for them to do.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Jason talks about add ons and up-selling. Not only does this bring in more money, it also provides more value for clients. Most important, it often strengthens the bond and creates a relationship where you're probably going to have a better shot at getting hired again. Play the long game.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jason’s website - www.jasonfeifer.com

Follow Jason!

• Instagram - @heyfeifer

• Facebook - @jasonfeifer

• Twitter - @heyfeifer

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Just in time for the holidays, Jen Smith, co-host of the Frugal Friends podcast and the author of the new book "Pay Off Your Debt For Good" joins us with her spending strategies so we can all shop like Financial Grownups.

3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup

1. Focus on your habits

2. Figure out what you value

3. Let go of guilt and shame

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jen’s Website - www.modernfrugality.com

• Jen’s podcast The Frugal Friends Podcast

• Jen’s new book - Pay Off Your Debt For Good

Follow Jen!

• Instagram - @modernfrugality

• Facebook - @modernfrugality

• Twitter - @modernfrugality

• Pinterest - @modernfrugality

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The gig economy is not going away anytime soon and that means we have a big challenge because a lot of us dong’ get steady paychecks. Freelance writer and personal finance expert Zina Kumok of ConsciousCoins.com shares her success strategies and more.

5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income

• Make sure to have an Emergency Fund

• Find the minimum amount you need to earn a month

• Having extra money

• Diversification

• Increase your rates on a regular basis

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Zina’s Website - www.consciouscoins.com

Follow Zina!

• Instagram - @zinakumok

• Facebook - @consciouscoins

• Twitter - @zinakumok

• Pinterest - @zinakumok

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

Episode Links

• Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast

• Check your credit score!

Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• YouTube - Popcorn Finance 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

College can be the ultimate adulting experience- including taking on some bad money habits if students aren’t taught the right way to start building a financial life.

4 Things College Students Need To Learn About Money

• Debt can be dangerous (credit cards are not free money, student loans must be repaid)

• Cash flow is king (save money, start budgeting, know needs vs. wants)

• Run your own race (know priorities and allocate dollars accordingly)

• Money is a tool that can help or hurt you in reaching your goals

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Tara’s website - www.reisupllc.com

• Tara’s courses MONEY and WEALTH

  • Tara is offering 20% off of either course to our Financial Grownup community. Use the code GROWNUP20 at checkout

Follow Tara!

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/reisupllc/

• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/reisupllc/

• Twitter - https://twitter.com/reisupllc

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe5MrXlrFYJmvRzN9XDAeLA

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarafalcone/

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Doug Boneparth  CFP®, author of The Millennial Money Fix,  got his entrepreneurial game on early in life when at just 15 he was selling Japanese Anime video’s on a new platform- eBay. While the business did not last, the lessons about supply and demand, as well as keeping track of the profits, provided the foundation for the entrepreneur he is today. 

In Doug’s money story you will learn:

-Why checks were arriving in the mail for the then 15-year old Doug Boneparth

-How Doug leveraged his passion for Japanese Anime into a thriving online business just as the internet was becoming a mainstream tool for commerce

-The skills Doug and his brother developed to grow the anime business, and other businesses they started

-How much money Doug made

In Doug’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Doug’s passion for his product drove sales

-How Doug has used the lessons from that teenage business to build his current CFP® practice

-How Doug continues to leverage the internet for business

-Why it is important to understand the legal ramifications of business decisions

-Where the profits from his business went!

In Doug’s money tip you will learn:

-How to make your commute more productive

-The financial and psychological benefits of investing in improving your time between home and work

 

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of tracking your business spending and costs, in addition to top line income

-How saving money in the wrong places can hurt both your business, and the quality of your personal life

-The specific, and very tough decision Bobbi made to increase her intentional work time, in order to improve the quality of her time with her family. 

 

Episode Links

Doug Boneparth’s Bona Fide Wealth Website: https://bonefidewealth.com/

Get Doug’s book The Millennial Money Fix

Follow Doug!

Twitter @dougboneparth

Instagram @Dougnotsofunny

Facebook Bonefidewealth

LinkedIn DouglasBoneparth

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast or download the app.

Doug Boneparth:
I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?" Eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect as to what I was doing, as well. My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Certified Financial Planner and Author of The Millennial Money Fix, Doug Boneparth, was born to be an entrepreneur. He started building businesses in his teens. Doug was hesitant to share the story you're going to hear because, well, it was the early days of the internet. And let's just say the rules were still unclear. That aside, it is a great lesson in taking something you love, knowing the market, and then filling a demand by creating supply.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Certified Financial Planner, Doug Boneparth. Doug Boneparth, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Doug Boneparth:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite CFP friends, and also, by the way, congratulations on your still relatively new book, The Millennial Money Fix. We're going to talk more about that soon. But first, I want to get to your money story. It's a really good one. We've been talking about this.

Doug Boneparth:
It's a throwback.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a throwback to when you were 15 years old. Anime was a big thing. You learned about the markets with a little business venture. Tell us.

Doug Boneparth:
So self-admitted super dork here. In high school-

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Doug Boneparth:
I really kind of got into Japanese animation. I thought it was awesome, and one thing that I noticed was, it was becoming more and more popular in American culture. I think Cartoon Network had Toonami and it was something I just loved. I loved all these things, video games. Of course, Japanese animation. I was really good with computers. My brother and I were both really good with computers, and I always was able to find a way to surf the internet a little bit better than others. So I said, "Geez, if we could find a way to get some great shows, these anime shows and sell them, we could probably make some money."

Doug Boneparth:
I noticed the demand in this relatively new market in the US and I did just that. I found a number of series, back from like the '80s. I think CD burners were relatively new, and eBay was relatively new, so what did I have? I had a market, I had a way to distribute, I had a way to capture content, and I was in business, and the checks came in.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much were the checks, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
Each series, in the beginning, and what was really interesting is I watched the price of these series come down pretty dramatically over the course of like six months. But checks were 80 bucks, 70 bucks for a particular show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're how old again?

Doug Boneparth:
I was 15.

Bobbi Rebell:
15, okay.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, so here I was, thinking I had a really cool idea. I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, they didn't know what was going on?

Doug Boneparth:
Well, no. They really didn't. They knew like I was savvy with computers, and I was into these shows, but they let me. I was a good boy. They left me to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much money, Doug, was coming in exactly? How much? What was your haul here?

Doug Boneparth:
I think from beginning to end, I had to have cleared $10,000 in checks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, it's a lot of money for a 15 year old, and the worst part is, I have no idea what I did with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Doug Boneparth:
I know. I'm sure I spent it on like candy, and video games, and computer equipment, and again, real dorky stuff. But, yeah. It was cool and I felt like I was running this amazing enterprise, where I had really tapped into something that was becoming popular. But those checks eventually dwindled, and eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect to what I was doing, as well.

Doug Boneparth:
My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office, which was right outside his office. And that was the end of my borderline questionable anime sales and marketing job on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a talk that your parents had with you and your brother? By the way, so your brother's involved in this, too, I assume?

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, no. No, he remains innocent. I remember my dad pulling my brother aside and asking, "What is your brother doing?" I think my brother covered for me pretty good. He goes, "He's putting these shows on CDs, I think they're so old that nobody cared." And my dad kind of looked at him strangely and I think that was the end of him kind of sponsoring or being my mule to bring the series to the post office. Yeah, quasi unethical behavior perhaps at 15.

Doug Boneparth:
Hey, look. Kids are going to get in trouble and it's probably a good reminder to let those who are trying to become entrepreneurs early on, make sure what you're doing is completely legit, like the computer repair business. My brother and I were running, that seemed to be probably a little bit more above board. But it was a great learning lesson. It kind of fanned the flames of the entrepreneur in me and only led to greater success down the road.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was the early days of the internet, so the rules were not clear yet, to be clear in terms of you were a 15 year old kid. You certainly were not intentionally doing anything that was not above board.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, no. I thought it was extremely clever. I thought it was amazing that this could all be put together. And if I was smart enough to do it, then to the victor go the spoils. Now looking back at it, yeah, it maybe a little bit dicey.

Doug Boneparth:
But again, I kind of wear it with a badge of honor, and have more value from the lessons that I learned in doing it and in business, than really just about anything else. But, yeah. You got it. Probably walking a fine line there.

Bobbi Rebell:
From an entrepreneurial standpoint, from a money standpoint, what did you learn running this internet business at age 15? I mean, were there marketing [inaudible 00:06:37]? Because you did well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did really well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, I learned that if you can sell something that you're excited about and you're passionate about, it's almost like not working. And that's a really important lesson. And that holds true as an advisor. My friends don't want to hear how I love Monday. I do. I absolutely love what I do, in the same way that I loved what I was doing. I loved these shows, and the stories, and I thought that I was sharing them with other people in this new trend that was emerging. That was super cool. So that was lesson number one.

Doug Boneparth:
Two was really an economic lesson, and looking at something here that I saw the trend. I saw the demand. I had an ability to supply it. And sure enough, you put those two concepts together and you're in business. And then third, is the internet side of things. Again, this is kind of the dawn of the eCommerce. This is the beginning of the internet. I thank my parents for allowing my brother to get a broadband cable modem and to be able to do a lot of cool stuff out there.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think the lessons and the experience I had there followed through to even how I'm operating business today. A lot of the way that I market my firm is definitely on the internet side of things, so I was an early adopter. And those are my three big lessons from being an entrepreneur at the age of 15. Even if it was selling Japanese animation on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hate to ask you this, but the $10,000. You really have no idea where it went, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
All right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because I know people want to know.

Doug Boneparth:
Fourth lesson. Become financially literate and responsible, and I only ... This is where I'm haunted by, "What if I had bought some really cheap technology stocks back in the day?" Or something like that, I'd be swimming in it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
$10,000 at age 15, Doug. Where did it go?

Doug Boneparth:
You tell me. Where didn't it go? I always had a lot of fun, and I really liked video games, and computer, I probably just ... I'll tell you where it went. It went into computers, and hardware, and things like that. Again, you're having me admit just how big of a nerd I was.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's investing back in the business.

Doug Boneparth:
No, that was to play video games, and get like cool graphic cards, and buy video games, and stuff like that. No, it was-

Bobbi Rebell:
I was trying to help there you there, Doug.

Doug Boneparth:
No, no, no. I appreciate that, but there's no, really no helping me on that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your money tip. This is a good one. You struggled with this, but I think it's a really good one. Because so many people spend so much time on their way to and from work. Hopefully they're listening to podcasts like this one while they do it. But it's important to really prioritize this time and think about it as an asset. And you have a money tip to that end.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. When you're thinking about commuting, I think that you should pay for the things that free up your time. So for me, that's parking across the river in Jersey City, so there's a car that can get me to my daughter or home a lot faster. And therefore, I can be more productive with my time.

Doug Boneparth:
It's paying for things like your 4G internet, for your laptop, so if I do take the train or I'm not driving, I can work and be productive. The theme here is, I usually don't hesitate to spend money on things, like parking or internet, things that make me become more productive when I'm commuting. It's usually a good payoff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Sounds good. Let's talk a little bit about The Millennial Money Fix. This is a great book. It's very comprehensive, and yet to the point. Tell me more.

Doug Boneparth:
So there are a lot of personal finance books out there, and I hope that the stories are what differentiate one book from another. And this is A, 80% of what you should have learned about in personal finance, right here in like 200 pages. Extremely digestible, but B, it's a first-hand perspective of what it's like for two hardworking millennials to navigate their young adult and now more mature adult lives in a way that's relatable and practical.

Doug Boneparth:
We know what hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt looks like. We know what it's like to buy a home, and start a family, and have kids with that burden. And we know how hard you have to work to make these things happen. So we practice what we preach and we want to share our story. My wife, Heather, and I want to share our story with everyone, so they become financially educated, empowered, and go after their great things in life.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, of course, people look at you. You're a very successful Certified Financial Planner. You're all over the media, so prominent. But you have the same challenges that so many people do have.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. If you judge a book by its cover, you might say to yourself, "Well, there's nothing these two really need to worry about. They're doing really well for themselves." And that's false. I mean, yeah, we're doing really well-

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing well, but it's not all roses.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, exactly. Nothing's been handed to us and our debt was something that we took on ourselves through Heather's own decisions to go to law school-

Bobbi Rebell:
You went to graduate school, too.

Doug Boneparth:
I went to graduate school, too. But I willingly knew what the impact would be. She did not have that advantage, and that's actually a cool contrast that we provide in the book. What it's like to pay for an expensive education, knowing fully well what it means financially, as well as what it means to pay for that education, not being financially literate. And I think that's something a lot of young people are going through, the older millennials.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think it's an opportunity for younger millennials, and even Gen Z to use this as a cautionary tale. Know what it is that you're getting yourself into, and how to find that return on your investment, and set yourself up with lessons that you should be learning, but unfortunately, aren't offered to you. So we're going to provide-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And where can people find you?

Doug Boneparth:
People can find me so many places. So many places. BonafideWealth.com's website. You can follow me on Twitter @DougBoneparth. Facebook. Just Google Douglas Boneparth and take your pick.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, and YouTube especially. Check out his YouTube channel. It's awesome.

Doug Boneparth:
Especially for young financial advisors, that's for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right, Doug. You've been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Doug's teenage entrepreneurial venture. Financial Grownup tip number one. You guys may have noticed I didn't want to let Doug off the hook about his profits. It was $10,000, he was only 15, so we are going to give him a pass. But if you are bringing in cash, you need to have a system, any system. Whatever works for you. There's a lot we don't know about what was going on with Doug's business.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know if there was overhead, probably not. We don't know who was paying, for example, for his shipping costs. Probably his dad, so it was pure profit. So $10,000, he enjoyed it, he was 15, but if you want to be a Financial Grownup, figure out what's going on with your cash flow, and be more deliberate, and more intentional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Doug talked about spending money to make your commute and your life more productive. He focused on logistics, like parking, and having internet wherever he goes. And that is a great point. Spend money on productivity, so you can complete more work more efficiently. For example, this is something I've come to realize. I will sometimes cut my workday short to pick up my son from school. That can be as early as 2:30 in the afternoon some days. On a personal level, that's great.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes it's a mistake because it can cut hours off my workday, when I could simply pay a babysitter just to pick him up and get those hours back. Then I can be focused on my son when he is home because I have completed my work. Racing to get him and then ignoring him because I have to get work done is not a win for either of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. You can also get our newsletter there and find out how you can be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Doug's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.