Posts tagged Summer Watch Party
We Wish it was Summer Watch Party: Growing Belushi feat. Special guest Neil Kaufman (Encore)
We Wish it was Summer Watch Party: Growing Belushi feat. Special guest Neil Kaufman (Encore)

Actor Jim Belushi invites viewers to his south Oregon Cannabis farm to learn about his latest business ventures and his passion for the plant’s medicinal healing powers. Bobbi and her husband Neil share why they were mesmerized by this edu-tainment offering from Discovery +. 

A Little About The Show

Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest.


Follow Neil!

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees and, seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Neil Kaufman:
For those of you that love Breaking Bad, and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, my grown-up friends, to the latest installment of our 2021 Financial Grownup Summer Watch Party Series. Okay. You guys know the deal. During COVID, all of us, frankly, not just me, we all had a chance to check out a lot of streaming shows, probably way too many, but there's a lot of undiscovered gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So we are having a Summer Watch Party highlighting some of my personal favorites and some new buzz-worthy shows and, of course, the money tips that we learn from those shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joining me for this episode is a guest I have been trying to get on this podcast since it began, the love of my life and someone I spend way too much time watching streaming TV shows with, Mr. Neil Kaufman, my husband, guys. Welcome, Neil.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you, Bobbi. I am so excited about this episode tonight. I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Well, I'm so impressed because you haven't been on yet. It's been a few years, and you have asked frequently, and I was a little afraid you wouldn't do your homework, but you have piles of paper there. You're actually worried about all the rustling papers because you did your homework today. So everyone's in for a real treat because Neil is taking this very seriously.

Neil Kaufman:
I have OCD. For the listeners, I have OCD, and so I obsess over everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the best way, though, in the best way, and we're definitely going to get the dirt on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this week's show, I made a pun, Neil, because I said dirt, and we're going to talk about farm, get it? It's Growing Belushi, which is a reality TV show on Discovery Plus. It's only a three-episode season so that's definitely something we can all manage to drop in August of 2020. We only discovered this very recently, but it was renewed for a second season already. As is always the case, I got to warn you guys, there are going to be some spoilers here, but it's so worth it. So stay with us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Neil, tell us a little bit about the show.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest. I think that you nailed it and maybe you'll come back again. I don't know. Everyone, write in.

Neil Kaufman:
I would say that if Jim Belushi is listening, I want him to know that I did follow him on Instagram today so he have plus one to the numbers and I'm a big fan, both acting and what he's doing today. I think bravo, kudos to him. I think he's doing phenomenal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Like I said, I'm just going to say ditto to that. I love the show. It was totally worth watching. Do not be insulted that I fell asleep, Mr. Belushi, because I do that all the time. But I did wake up and re-watch it over again, which is the ultimate compliment from me, trust me. Definitely worth watching. I can't wait for next season, and maybe we'll reach out to the team over at Growing Belushi and see if we can get him on when the new season comes out. So, come on to the show, Jim.

Neil Kaufman:
I think maybe we should do a product review next time so we should sample and then do a product review. I think that would be appropriate.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We'll figure out what is compliant within the law. I don't know what the law is on that, but maybe we need to take a family field trip to Oregon. I don't know.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that might be an order.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in. I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Neil, love of my life, for joining us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone else, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please spread the love. Tell a friend. DM me on Insta @bobbirebell1. Let me know if you want Neil back. Let me know if you want us to try to get Jim Belushi on when his second season of Growing Belushi comes on. And, of course, let me know what else you want to hear on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all. Neil, thanks for helping everyone be financial grownups.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Weil. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanNeil Kaufman, Growing Belushi, Cannabis, Summer Watch Party, Discovery, Discovery +, Breaking Bad, Narcos, Ozark, Jim Belushi
Summer Watch Party: Million Dollar Listing New York with special guest co-hosts Paulette Perhach and Erin Lowry.
Summer Watch Party: Million Dollar Listing New York with special guest co-hosts Paulette Perhach and Erin Lowry.

Bobbi and her guests reveal their connections to MDLNY and share exclusive insider secrets and money lessons learned from the Bravo reality tv series focused on high end New York Real Estate agents in the final installment of the financial grownup summer watch party series. 

Summer-Watch-Party-Million-Dollar-Listing-Instagram-with-Erin-Lowry-and-Paulette-Perhach.png

A Little About The Show

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.



Follow Paulette!


Follow Erin!

Follow Bobbi!



Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.




Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Paulette Perhach:
You want to be this successful? You want to be at this level? This is what it takes. And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup."

Erin Lowry:
Anytime any of them are in those "self-care moments", they always take calls. They are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome friends to the fifth and final installment of our 2021 Financial Grown-up Summer Watch Party series. Having spent so much time at home in the past year and a half, one thing I've done with my time is, well, watch a ton of TV. And in that time, I have discovered there are a lot of streaming TV gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So I decided to bring on some friends, and discuss and have this summer watch party. So far, we have covered the Ashton Kutcher produced Going From Broke, which is on Crackle. Now I had not known of this network really before, but it is free, so definitely download Crackle or whatever, get to Crackle however you do, on your TV, and check out Going From Broke. It literally had me crying because the people that they have on this show were so good hearted, so well-meaning, and such interesting stories.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's just really well produced. We also talked about the new Netflix series, My Unorthodox Life, featuring entrepreneur Julia Haart, and her family and friends and coworkers. I think this family maybe the next Kardashians, but there was a lot of controversy about the show in the news because of how they presented their former life. There is a lot out there to this. Google it, just trust me. And then also obviously listened to our episode about it, and watch the show, but Google it for the controversy. In our third week of our little Summer Watch series, we got into it with some definite disagreements about whether the money lessons were good lessons, or bad lessons on the Netflix series, Marriage or Mortgage. My co-host, Andy Hill, held his own and we ended up agreeing to disagree. And then last week my husband came on the podcast to discuss and share his take on Jim Belushi's cannabis farm reality TV show on discovery, Growing Belushi, where his family actually had an intervention talking about concerns that the business was taking over his life and he didn't know what he was doing, which is kind of true. If you watch the show, you'll have to see.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sadly though, also we may have been witnessing some of the feelings that led to the recent announcement that Jim Belushi and his wife of 23 years, Jennifer, are splitting up. So we're very sad, and it's interesting. It makes the show all the more compelling to really look at what's going on behind the scenes as, yes, it's a cannabis farm and that's interesting in and of itself, but this is also someone starting a new family business and how it's impacting all of them. All of this to say it's been a great series, and if you have not listened so far, I highly recommend that you check out those episodes. This week, we have a really special show with a take on a show, a reality TV show that I can promise you, you will not hear anywhere else.

Bobbi Rebell:
We cannot possibly do a reality TV series without including a Bravo show, because who really does it better than Bravo, right? So we are going to be discussing Million Dollar Listing New York, MDLNY for the super fans. This is going to be next level because of my guests, and the exclusive information and insights that they bring to the table. Okay. First we have friend of the podcast, Ms. Paulette Perhach. Very famous writer in her own right, here to so many of us because of her F-U fund. But she also has a unique connection to the show that we will share in a moment. And we also have bestselling author, Erin Lowry, also a friend of the podcast, known for her trifecta of books in the Broke Millennial series and so much more, those introductions by the way, ladies do not do justice to all of your accomplishments, but in the interest of keeping the podcast a reasonable length, we will leave it there. Welcome.

Paulette Perhach:
Thanks for having us. I haven't heard trifecta yet. I'm going to start stealing that now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trifecta. You did.

Paulette Perhach:
I know I did. I just had never thought... I keep saying three-part I'm like, "Ugh, trifecta so much better. Why didn't I wordsmith that?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That? Yeah. A triptych of financial wisdom.

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's just too advanced. Get your $2 words out of here.

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:05:36] to the art world.

Erin Lowry:
We all come from the art world. Give you a triptych.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.

Erin Lowry:
The Bravo editors are unmatched, in my opinion, in terms of editing reality content. To a dash, Netflix is starting to do some really solid reality content, but Bravo really created the mold that everyone is just trying to match at this point.

Bobbi Rebell:
Agreed. All right. Thank you so much, Paulette, where can people catch up with you?

Paulette Perhach:
You can follow me on Twitter at @pauletperhach And I also blog about storytelling and writing and business at welcometothewriterslife.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And you also, by the way, have a growing business supporting writers.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. So I'm a writing coach and working on creating a program called the PMSA, the profitable MFA, where I help writers lead a profitable and satisfying writer's life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good stuff, Erin, my friend, what are you up to these days? And where can people be in touch with you?

Erin Lowry:
You can find me most actively on Instagram @brokemillennialblog on Twitter @brokemillennial. The website is brokemillennial.com. The books, all three of them are available. Wherever books are sold and also hopefully your local library.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely your local library. We're all an advocate for borrowing books and supporting your library. And by the way, that doesn't mean you can't tell your library to buy the books of your favorite author and in that way financially support your favorite author. That was my PSA. All right. Thanks everyone for listening. Do not forget if you enjoy the show too. Please tell your friends and share on social and tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
For show notes, a full transcript of this show add more, go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and just look for the podcast dropdown menu. Thank you for listening everyone. And thank you, Erin Lowry, Paulette Perhach for helping us all be Financial Grown Up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well, you can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grown-ups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Investing, Money, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMDLNY, Million Dollar Listing New York, Paulette Perhach, Erin Lowry, Broke Millennial, Summer Watch Party, Summer Watch Series, real estate
Summer Watch Party: Growing Belushi feat. Special guest Neil Kaufman
Summer Watch Party: Growing Belushi feat. Special guest Neil Kaufman

Actor Jim Belushi invites viewers to his south Oregon Cannabis farm to learn about his latest business ventures and his passion for the plant’s medicinal healing powers. Bobbi and her husband Neil share why they were mesmerized by this edu-tainment offering from Discovery +. 

Summer-Watch-Party-Growing-Belushi-Instagram-with-Neil-Kaufman .png

A Little About The Show

Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest.


Follow Neil!

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees and, seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Neil Kaufman:
For those of you that love Breaking Bad, and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, my grown-up friends, to the latest installment of our 2021 Financial Grownup Summer Watch Party Series. Okay. You guys know the deal. During COVID, all of us, frankly, not just me, we all had a chance to check out a lot of streaming shows, probably way too many, but there's a lot of undiscovered gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So we are having a Summer Watch Party highlighting some of my personal favorites and some new buzz-worthy shows and, of course, the money tips that we learn from those shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joining me for this episode is a guest I have been trying to get on this podcast since it began, the love of my life and someone I spend way too much time watching streaming TV shows with, Mr. Neil Kaufman, my husband, guys. Welcome, Neil.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you, Bobbi. I am so excited about this episode tonight. I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Well, I'm so impressed because you haven't been on yet. It's been a few years, and you have asked frequently, and I was a little afraid you wouldn't do your homework, but you have piles of paper there. You're actually worried about all the rustling papers because you did your homework today. So everyone's in for a real treat because Neil is taking this very seriously.

Neil Kaufman:
I have OCD. For the listeners, I have OCD, and so I obsess over everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the best way, though, in the best way, and we're definitely going to get the dirt on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this week's show, I made a pun, Neil, because I said dirt, and we're going to talk about farm, get it? It's Growing Belushi, which is a reality TV show on Discovery Plus. It's only a three-episode season so that's definitely something we can all manage to drop in August of 2020. We only discovered this very recently, but it was renewed for a second season already. As is always the case, I got to warn you guys, there are going to be some spoilers here, but it's so worth it. So stay with us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Neil, tell us a little bit about the show.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest. I think that you nailed it and maybe you'll come back again. I don't know. Everyone, write in.

Neil Kaufman:
I would say that if Jim Belushi is listening, I want him to know that I did follow him on Instagram today so he have plus one to the numbers and I'm a big fan, both acting and what he's doing today. I think bravo, kudos to him. I think he's doing phenomenal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Like I said, I'm just going to say ditto to that. I love the show. It was totally worth watching. Do not be insulted that I fell asleep, Mr. Belushi, because I do that all the time. But I did wake up and re-watch it over again, which is the ultimate compliment from me, trust me. Definitely worth watching. I can't wait for next season, and maybe we'll reach out to the team over at Growing Belushi and see if we can get him on when the new season comes out. So, come on to the show, Jim.

Neil Kaufman:
I think maybe we should do a product review next time so we should sample and then do a product review. I think that would be appropriate.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We'll figure out what is compliant within the law. I don't know what the law is on that, but maybe we need to take a family field trip to Oregon. I don't know.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that might be an order.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in. I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Neil, love of my life, for joining us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone else, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please spread the love. Tell a friend. DM me on Insta @bobbirebell1. Let me know if you want Neil back. Let me know if you want us to try to get Jim Belushi on when his second season of Growing Belushi comes on. And, of course, let me know what else you want to hear on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all. Neil, thanks for helping everyone be financial grownups.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Weil. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanNeil Kaufman, Growing Belushi, Cannabis, Summer Watch Party, Discovery, Discovery +, Breaking Bad, Narcos, Ozark, Jim Belushi
Summer Watch Party: Netflix’s Marriage or Mortgage with guest co-host Andy Hill
Summer Watch Party: Netflix’s Marriage or Mortgage with guest co-host Andy Hill

Marriage Kids and Money’s Andy Hill joins Bobbi to break down the Netflix hit show that challenges couples to choose between the wedding of their dreams, and becoming home owners as they start their life together. 

A Little About The Show

Andy Hill:
So it's a 10 episode series on Netflix, and it follows these couples in Nashville. Then they've got a limited budget. So they've got to choose the mortgage, or they've got to choose the wedding of their dreams. So the mortgage obviously is for their first home or the home that they're going to have together. Most of them have around 30K saved up. And the hosts of the show, as you mentioned, Sarah, she's got the wedding planning, and then Nicole is the real estate agent. So they have a friendly competition about who's going to win over the couple, whether it's the marriage or the mortgage.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and it's interesting. Most of the couples have somewhere between 25 and $35,000 saved up for this. And that does work out well because the average cost of a wedding pre COVID, which is when this was filmed, and we'll talk about the relevance of that later, was about $34,000. Which of course, I'm in New York so I'm like, oh, that's not so bad. But in the real world, outside of the island of Manhattan, that is a ton of money. All right, Andy, you're the perfect person for this show. You have the marriage, but you don't have a mortgage anymore. So I know you have a lot to say about this show. You've watched a couple episodes, right?

Andy Hill:
Yeah. I watched a couple episodes. I watched the first one where it was a new couple coming in from Florida. And they were deciding whether they want to get married or pay for the wedding or do the house. And then I also watched another episode with an older lesbian couple, that they were going to say, Hey, do we want the big gay wedding, or do we want the big gay house? So it was fun to see different demographics in Nashville trying to figure out their situation. But yeah, overall, I thought it was a very interesting concept. And based on watching it, it was a little downer. Honestly, I feel like you come into it and it's like, okay, you set yourself up for the big hopes of the wedding because you've seen all the movies, or you've seen all your friends do it. Or you've got to get the big house because you've seen all your friends or your family or in the movies do it.

Andy Hill:
And I feel like when we throw that out into society, it's like, here's the things that you have to do, I think that it can be a depressing notion of you're not quite there financially. And it brought back memories for me with both of those situations as well. So I didn't quite have the money for either one of those things. And we got into forcing ourselves financially to do them. So it was kind of a ... I don't know, it's a happy go lucky show, but it made me a little bit sad.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I will say. So there is this reality TV veneer that they sometimes do where everything is presented as positivity. It is interesting because there is that dark undercurrent because they never have a choice of, well, you don't have to do either one.

Andy Hill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that's interesting. I joked that you know about the marriage, but not the mortgage anymore. You did pay off your mortgage. What do you think about the idea of what it's saying? That it positions home ownership has this ideal that couples should be striving for. They never really say, well, or you could just, do what you want to do [crosstalk 00:05:49] or whatever.

Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Andy Hill:
Yeah. I think there's the nationwide shame around renting. And that's something that I'd like to dispel, especially since ... I'm a homeowner. I love my home and we paid off the mortgage. Yes, it's great. But for my first home ownership experience, I bought with too little down with not an understanding of the general costs of home ownership outside of the mortgage. A lot of these things, a lot of the show is like, Hey, here's the home that you can afford for the mortgage. But then you move in and it's like, I got to furnish that thing. I got to get curtains. Oh, the roof is not in a good situation. I have to ... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the things that you didn't know because you are renting, all the things you got to fix because you don't have a landlord anymore. You are the landlord.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so interesting that you say that because the plot twist for this show actually happened after filming ended in my mind. Because when you first see the title of this show, every single person I've asked, because as I mentioned, I am obsessed with it, has said, who would not choose the house over the wedding? Everyone says, why would you? If you only have 30 grand, of course, you're going to get a house, especially cause some other living situations are less than ideal. They're living with parents or whatever, roommates. The thing is, is that you think when you're watching it, who's not going to choose the mortgage. And I didn't actually do a count, but I'm telling you, I feel like it's at least half chose the wedding.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, it was the majority. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on the surface, people get judgey. And they're like, you would blow 30 grand on four hours? And I asked the ladies, I said, after the pandemic, did people regret the weddings? Especially because some of the weddings were even downsized because they timed out to be the beginning of the pandemic. And they said, no. The regrets, if anything, came from the homeowners, which goes to what you just said. The wedding. Sure, they "blew 30 grand on it." But they had the day of a lifetime. They had a memory, they had their friends and family there, which we talk about how millennials and gen Z, they all want these experiences. Well, that's what the wedding was. The wedding was an experience versus a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what people forget is that the house does carry future financial responsibilities, positive things too. But it was very interesting talking to the ladies, seeing this afterthought. Do you think that people are too quick to judge stereotypes when they go to these things, where they judge people for spending a lot of money on a huge trip or a wedding or whatever it may be? And we were talking offline. We have a big family event that we're planning that I think we're spending way too much money on, but I also feel like this is what life is, right?

Speaker 3:
Absolutely. If you've saved up the money to purchase something, whether it's a thing or an experience in your life, I think there should be zero shame, and you enjoying what you've worked hard to have. Now, if, Bobby, you're going to take a big, old, personal loan to throw this party and rack up some double-digit interest to do that, then maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you were the host, let's say you're the moderator, they really didn't have a neutral party. But if you were there hosting it with the ladies, what would your advice to be as a neutral party to these couples?

Speaker 3:
I think that could be fun actually, because the show is supposed to be fun. And it's like, Hey, choose one or the other. And it's like a game show, like you said. It also opens up opportunity for social commentary at the end to be like, okay, Hey, we know that this is not the real world here, everybody. You don't have to do just this or that. There's a lot of other things you can do. I think maybe they should have risen up the conversation around renting. I think they should have risen up the conversation around maybe not having to do an extravagant thing if you can't afford it. And the realities of debt in our country, because those are really serious topics.

Speaker 3:
And since we're playfully talking about a $30,000 choice, which is very difficult for the majority of America, I think it opens up an opportunity to have real conversations. So maybe for the people who are on the show, maybe it's an opportunity for them to talk, get real, get real money talk and say, Hey, this is what it actually ended up being when we decided to go for the wedding. Or now that we've decided to go for the wedding, we have $0 to put down on this house that we're actually really interested. So there is a choice. And I think that it opens up an opportunity for education after the fun, which is important too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Final thoughts on the show. Are you going to be watching the rest of the episodes now that I've gotten you sucked into it?

Speaker 3:
You know what, Bobby? I'll be honest with you. I will probably not watch any more of them, but I really appreciated you opening it up to me. It's just that's not typically my type of show. I don't really watch a lot of reality TV, but I liked the fact that it hit on both of those buttons, marriage and mortgage because I talk about that all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, do you feel that it had lessons, maybe things that you already know? I mean, there was a lot of negotiation. I feel there was a lot of priority there. And I would have liked to have heard more about how they got to saving $30,000, which is no small feat.

Speaker 3:
Exactly. And I think that that in itself could teach a lot of people things. What I did like that you're bringing up, I like how they negotiated. I really like how when you come to the end and they make the final decision, here's what I was able to do for you, whether it was for the house or for the wedding venue. I used to work on event planning for 15 years, so I know all of the importance of the costs of events.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, tell us. Give us some insider secrets, Andy.

Speaker 3:
It's very important to not just take the price at face value, which the show hosts did, which was fantastic. What can you do for me? Where can we find some concessions? These people are considering going over these other locations. What can we do to save a little bit of money? Never take the price at face value in anything in life. This is an opportunity for you to negotiate, flex that skill, and go into it being like, Hey, you know what? If we can't get it, it's not going to be the end of the world. There's going to be somewhere else to go. And with that attitude, you're going to save a lot of money with a lot of choices in life, whether it's an event venue or a home or a thing that you want to buy in life. So that was one of my favorite things that the host did and showed the power of negotiation, which I think is really good for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they did do some budgeting. They did say, for example, the wedding, if you spend this much on the dress ... I mean, there was a lot of humor in there. To me, that's a lot of the watchability. You can see, everyone, I'm trying to get Andy to really watch the rest of these. But I mean, there was a woman that had to have this ranch dressing tower. I mean, it's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, but it was also her enthusiasm was infectious. So you find these characters endearing, even in what we might perceive as silliness. The truth is we all have our thing.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. Well, I like ranch on anything, so I respect that. So pizza, vegetables. So maybe I'll have to watch that episode. I think that's that ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe watch that one, and the one with a donut wall.

Speaker 3:
Oh, I like it. I like donuts, and I like ranch. Not together, but I like them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, see? I'm going to win you over. When we're done with this, I'm going to work on getting Andy to watch the rest of the show because these characters are endearing. You are rooting for them. The fact that this pandemic happened and squashed a lot of the ones ... the wedding's dreams, but they still love the weddings. It's like, I love that because the weddings, ultimately, even though they did ... and they put budgets up on the screen, by the way. They do, they show what things are going to cost. They do push people to make choices within the wedding. More so the house, it's a little trickier, but they do do that. So I thought that was also a good financial lesson. So I'm winning you over, Andy.

Speaker 3:
I like it. I'm not knocking your show. I don't normally do reality shows, but [crosstalk 00:12:58] you're a good friend of mine. If you want me to watch an another episode, I will.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recommend it for people that like reality TV.

Check out Sarah and Nichole’s episode here!

Follow Andy!

Follow Bobbi!



Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be tough. I have the solution over@grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, friends, to our latest installment of our 2021 financial grownup summer watch party series. During COVID, I had a chance to check out some streaming shows and there are a lot of undiscovered gems out there that I think have some really good money lessons. So we're going to have a separate watch party. Actually, we already are. I think this is our third episode highlighting, of course, some of my personal favorites and some new buzzworthy shows. And of course the money tips that we learned from them. And of course, what is a watch party without some good friends? So I am so excited to welcome Andy Hill. He is the host of Marriage, Kids and Money, the podcast, and the growing business empire around it. Welcome, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Thank you, Bobby. I'm so glad to be here and glad to be returning for some more fun with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have a lot going on as the world opens up, I say optimistically.

Andy Hill:
Yes. Let's keep saying it optimistically, please.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Well, I think you're one of the co-hosts of Fin Con this year.

Andy Hill:
Yeah. I'm excited about that. Yeah. Paula Pant and I are going to be co-hosting together in Fin Con in Austin, Texas. And I am pumped about it, to be able to not only do that, but hang out with a bunch of fellow money nerds just like you.

Bobbi Rebell:
In person, so cool. All right.

Andy Hill:
Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to this week's show. We're going to be talking about Marriage and Mortgage. I think it's actually called Marriage or Mortgage. I misspoke, so Marriage or Mortgage. It was an obsessive pandemic binge show for me, so much so that I had the stars of the show, Sarah Miller and Nicole Holmes, as guests on an earlier episode of this podcast. And yes, we'll leave a link in the show notes on my website, bobbirebell.com. So you guys can check that one out. I was obsessed. Andy, I had to prompt you to watch this, but you were a good sport. You dove right in. Tell us a little bit about the show.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so it's a very interesting ... and you were right. It's definitely an or because that's the whole point of the show, right? Marriage or Mortgage. So it's a 10 episode series on Netflix, and it follows these couples in Nashville. Then they've got a limited budget. So they've got to choose the mortgage, or they've got to choose the wedding of their dreams. So the mortgage obviously is for their first home or the home that they're going to have together. Most of them have around 30K saved up. And the hosts of the show, as you mentioned, Sarah, she's got the wedding planning, and then Nicole is the real estate agent. So they have a friendly competition about who's going to win over the couple, whether it's the marriage or the mortgage.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and it's interesting. Most of the couples have somewhere between 25 and $35,000 saved up for this. And that does work out well because the average cost of a wedding pre COVID, which is when this was filmed, and we'll talk about the relevance of that later, was about $34,000. Which of course, I'm in New York so I'm like, oh, that's not so bad. But in the real world, outside of the island of Manhattan, that is a ton of money. All right, Andy, you're the perfect person for this show. You have the marriage, but you don't have a mortgage anymore. So I know you have a lot to say about this show. You've watched a couple episodes, right?

Andy Hill:
Yeah. I watched a couple episodes. I watched the first one where it was a new couple coming in from Florida. And they were deciding whether they want to get married or pay for the wedding or do the house. And then I also watched another episode with an older lesbian couple, that they were going to say, Hey, do we want the big gay wedding, or do we want the big gay house? So it was fun to see different demographics in Nashville trying to figure out their situation. But yeah, overall, I thought it was a very interesting concept. And based on watching it, it was a little downer. Honestly, I feel like you come into it and it's like, okay, you set yourself up for the big hopes of the wedding because you've seen all the movies, or you've seen all your friends do it. Or you've got to get the big house because you've seen all your friends or your family or in the movies do it.

Andy Hill:
And I feel like when we throw that out into society, it's like, here's the things that you have to do, I think that it can be a depressing notion of you're not quite there financially. And it brought back memories for me with both of those situations as well. So I didn't quite have the money for either one of those things. And we got into forcing ourselves financially to do them. So it was kind of a ... I don't know, it's a happy go lucky show, but it made me a little bit sad.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I will say. So there is this reality TV veneer that they sometimes do where everything is presented as positivity. It is interesting because there is that dark undercurrent because they never have a choice of, well, you don't have to do either one.

Andy Hill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that's interesting. I joked that you know about the marriage, but not the mortgage anymore. You did pay off your mortgage. What do you think about the idea of what it's saying? That it positions home ownership has this ideal that couples should be striving for. They never really say, well, or you could just, do what you want to do [crosstalk 00:05:49] or whatever.

Andy Hill:
Yeah. I think there's the nationwide shame around renting. And that's something that I'd like to dispel, especially since ... I'm a homeowner. I love my home and we paid off the mortgage. Yes, it's great. But for my first home ownership experience, I bought with too little down with not an understanding of the general costs of home ownership outside of the mortgage. A lot of these things, a lot of the show is like, Hey, here's the home that you can afford for the mortgage. But then you move in and it's like, I got to furnish that thing. I got to get curtains. Oh, the roof is not in a good situation. I have to ... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the things that you didn't know because you are renting, all the things you got to fix because you don't have a landlord anymore. You are the landlord.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so interesting that you say that because the plot twist for this show actually happened after filming ended in my mind. Because when you first see the title of this show, every single person I've asked, because as I mentioned, I am obsessed with it, has said, who would not choose the house over the wedding? Everyone says, why would you? If you only have 30 grand, of course, you're going to get a house, especially cause some other living situations are less than ideal. They're living with parents or whatever, roommates. The thing is, is that you think when you're watching it, who's not going to choose the mortgage. And I didn't actually do a count, but I'm telling you, I feel like it's at least half chose the wedding.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, it was the majority. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on the surface, people get judgey. And they're like, you would blow 30 grand on four hours? And I asked the ladies, I said, after the pandemic, did people regret the weddings? Especially because some of the weddings were even downsized because they timed out to be the beginning of the pandemic. And they said, no. The regrets, if anything, came from the homeowners, which goes to what you just said. The wedding. Sure, they "blew 30 grand on it." But they had the day of a lifetime. They had a memory, they had their friends and family there, which we talk about how millennials and gen Z, they all want these experiences. Well, that's what the wedding was. The wedding was an experience versus a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what people forget is that the house does carry future financial responsibilities, positive things too. But it was very interesting talking to the ladies, seeing this afterthought. Do you think that people are too quick to judge stereotypes when they go to these things, where they judge people for spending a lot of money on a huge trip or a wedding or whatever it may be? And we were talking offline. We have a big family event that we're planning that I think we're spending way too much money on, but I also feel like this is what life is, right?

Speaker 3:
Absolutely. If you've saved up the money to purchase something, whether it's a thing or an experience in your life, I think there should be zero shame, and you enjoying what you've worked hard to have. Now, if, Bobby, you're going to take a big, old, personal loan to throw this party and rack up some double-digit interest to do that, then maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you were the host, let's say you're the moderator, they really didn't have a neutral party. But if you were there hosting it with the ladies, what would your advice to be as a neutral party to these couples?

Speaker 3:
I think that could be fun actually, because the show is supposed to be fun. And it's like, Hey, choose one or the other. And it's like a game show, like you said. It also opens up opportunity for social commentary at the end to be like, okay, Hey, we know that this is not the real world here, everybody. You don't have to do just this or that. There's a lot of other things you can do. I think maybe they should have risen up the conversation around renting. I think they should have risen up the conversation around maybe not having to do an extravagant thing if you can't afford it. And the realities of debt in our country, because those are really serious topics.

Speaker 3:
And since we're playfully talking about a $30,000 choice, which is very difficult for the majority of America, I think it opens up an opportunity to have real conversations. So maybe for the people who are on the show, maybe it's an opportunity for them to talk, get real, get real money talk and say, Hey, this is what it actually ended up being when we decided to go for the wedding. Or now that we've decided to go for the wedding, we have $0 to put down on this house that we're actually really interested. So there is a choice. And I think that it opens up an opportunity for education after the fun, which is important too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Final thoughts on the show. Are you going to be watching the rest of the episodes now that I've gotten you sucked into it?

Speaker 3:
You know what, Bobby? I'll be honest with you. I will probably not watch any more of them, but I really appreciated you opening it up to me. It's just that's not typically my type of show. I don't really watch a lot of reality TV, but I liked the fact that it hit on both of those buttons, marriage and mortgage because I talk about that all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, do you feel that it had lessons, maybe things that you already know? I mean, there was a lot of negotiation. I feel there was a lot of priority there. And I would have liked to have heard more about how they got to saving $30,000, which is no small feat.

Speaker 3:
Exactly. And I think that that in itself could teach a lot of people things. What I did like that you're bringing up, I like how they negotiated. I really like how when you come to the end and they make the final decision, here's what I was able to do for you, whether it was for the house or for the wedding venue. I used to work on event planning for 15 years, so I know all of the importance of the costs of events.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, tell us. Give us some insider secrets, Andy.

Speaker 3:
It's very important to not just take the price at face value, which the show hosts did, which was fantastic. What can you do for me? Where can we find some concessions? These people are considering going over these other locations. What can we do to save a little bit of money? Never take the price at face value in anything in life. This is an opportunity for you to negotiate, flex that skill, and go into it being like, Hey, you know what? If we can't get it, it's not going to be the end of the world. There's going to be somewhere else to go. And with that attitude, you're going to save a lot of money with a lot of choices in life, whether it's an event venue or a home or a thing that you want to buy in life. So that was one of my favorite things that the host did and showed the power of negotiation, which I think is really good for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they did do some budgeting. They did say, for example, the wedding, if you spend this much on the dress ... I mean, there was a lot of humor in there. To me, that's a lot of the watchability. You can see, everyone, I'm trying to get Andy to really watch the rest of these. But I mean, there was a woman that had to have this ranch dressing tower. I mean, it's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, but it was also her enthusiasm was infectious. So you find these characters endearing, even in what we might perceive as silliness. The truth is we all have our thing.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. Well, I like ranch on anything, so I respect that. So pizza, vegetables. So maybe I'll have to watch that episode. I think that's that ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe watch that one, and the one with a donut wall.

Speaker 3:
Oh, I like it. I like donuts, and I like ranch. Not together, but I like them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, see? I'm going to win you over. When we're done with this, I'm going to work on getting Andy to watch the rest of the show because these characters are endearing. You are rooting for them. The fact that this pandemic happened and squashed a lot of the ones ... the wedding's dreams, but they still love the weddings. It's like, I love that because the weddings, ultimately, even though they did ... and they put budgets up on the screen, by the way. They do, they show what things are going to cost. They do push people to make choices within the wedding. More so the house, it's a little trickier, but they do do that. So I thought that was also a good financial lesson. So I'm winning you over, Andy.

Speaker 3:
I like it. I'm not knocking your show. I don't normally do reality shows, but [crosstalk 00:12:58] you're a good friend of mine. If you want me to watch an another episode, I will.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recommend it for people that like reality TV. But in the meantime, everyone likes you, Andy Hill. Everyone should be following you and all of your ventures. Tell us more about what you're up to and where people can find you.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. So I have a podcast called Marriage, Kids and Money, which is appropriate for the show we're talking about today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's why I picked you to do this. Hello.

Speaker 3:
I know. I'm so thankful for being here. It's a show focused on helping families make smart financial choices that let them have a great today and tomorrow. So I've been doing it for about five years. It's a podcast, it's a YouTube channel. Come check it out, marriagekidsandmoney.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's award-winning by the way.

Speaker 3:
Oh, thank you. Yes, it is award winning. I do a show on Fridays now with my wife called Bread and Wine, where it's her and I talking about stuff just very similar to the show, big decisions we're making as a family and what we're going to do. And I am secretly trying to get an award for that one, so Nicole will have to come with me to Austin. You guys can hang out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. Well, you've got my vote for all of that. And everyone, follow Andy, follow all of his shows. And if you enjoy this podcast, please tell a friend and make sure that you are following the podcast. That's new terminology now because we no longer say subscribe. We say, follow the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. Let me know what you liked about the show. Let me know what you want to hear more of on the podcast. And thanks, Andy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Andy Hill:
Thank you for inviting me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanAndy Hill, Marriage or Mortgage, Marriage Kids and Money, Netflix, Summer Watch Party, Money Tips
Summer Watch Party - My Unorthodox Life
Summer Watch Party - My Unorthodox Life

Our summer watch party continues with the controversial new Netflix reality tv series My Unorthodox Life. Bobbi and Jessica Goodman,  best-selling author of  “They Wish They Were Us” and "They’ll Never Catch Us” explain why it’s getting serious backlash, and why they can’t stop watching it anyway.

Summer-Watch-Party-My-Unorthodox-Life-Instagram-Jessica-Goodman.png

A Little About The Show


Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, so the premise is that there's this woman named Julia Haart and she's in her forties and she's the CEO of Elite World Group, which is a modeling conglomerate. She's launching a fashion line. She's this very glamorous, seemingly free kind of woman. She's married to an Italian man who used to be her... She used to work with at La Perla. She has four kids, kind of teenagers and young adults. And the show kind of frames this as, this is this crazy kind of New York city family, but twist... She used to be Orthodox Jewish and live in a community in upstate New York called Monsey, which is known for being very insular and having lots of different groups and communities and sects of Orthodox Judaism living there.

Jessica Goodman:
I have some thoughts on the problematic framing of this narrative. That the fact that they kind of frame it as a twist is a little bit othering in a lot of ways, but her whole thing is that she's not a part of this community anymore. And her kids are involved with the community to varying degrees. Her youngest son is... I think he's either in late middle school or early high school, and he still lives up there with his father and is very much a part of the community. And her other kids have varying levels of faith in Judaism.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm kind of amazed that they all agreed to so enthusiastically be part of this show, but they really... I almost feel like they're prepped for it and they're ready and roaring to go, which seems a little jarring. I don't know. And the clothing. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with the styling and the wardrobe on this. I mean, it's over the top. I guess that's part of why I had this Kardashian feeling and I have not been a loyal viewer of the Kardashians. I've kind of watched a few episodes over the years so I'm not really necessarily qualified to say that. But it's pretty flashy.

Jessica Goodman:
Oh, totally. And I feel like that's definitely on purpose because she's framing herself as a fashion mogul and she came into the fashion world having no experience in it and knowing nothing about it and yeah. The fashion and the glam and all of that really is such a part of the show. And also obviously I've been doing deep dive stalking of everybody who's on the show and her oldest daughter Batsheva, who's 27 or something. She's a full fledged fashion influencer. Has a million followers on TikToK. She was doing that before the show launched. So clearly, this is a family where fashion is a big part of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the show is a very deliberate and polished show. There's nothing accidental in this show. It is structured. So give me your take. I mean, I find this fascinating. I didn't binge all of it yet only because I've been blocked by other true obligations, but I'll probably finish the rest right after we're done taping this because it's so fascinating. What's your general takeaway from this? Just to begin with.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, totally. I mean, you told me we were going to talk about this show and I had heard about it a little bit and I was like, oh, I'll watch an episode and see what happens. Fast forward four hours, I'd watched basically the whole thing. I couldn't take my eyes away from it. I think it's extremely compelling television. But yeah, the whole thing is super contrived. It's very clearly... They decide what the storylines are going to be. There's nothing real about it. It's very much like The Hills in that way. Fake reality. And Julia is an executive producer on the show, just like the Kardashians are executive producers on their show. So you're getting the lifestyle and the perspective that she wants you to see and I think you have to really take that into consideration when you're viewing the show.

Jessica Goodman:
I grew up and I'm still a reformed Jewish person and I think what's most interesting to me is seeing the different levels of Judaism portrayed on the show. One of the daughters is basically... I don't know if she considers herself secular, but she is 20 years old and she eats treyf, like oysters and all those kind of stuff. And her older sister is still Orthodox and has a very contrived storyline with her husband about whether or not she's going to be wearing pants, when she's also wearing an off the shoulder shirt. The whole thing is kind of fake, but I'm interested in seeing these conversations play out within the family and how they accept one another's different parts of religion.

Jessica Goodman:
I think there are some really problematic moments in the show too. There's been a real big backlash against her from women in the Orthodox community who say that she portrays them... That Julia says that Orthodox women don't have free will. And a lot of Orthodox women are coming out and saying that's not true. We do have free will and this is how, and this is why. I'm not part of that community so I can't really speculate or comment on that. It's really interesting to watch it play out and to see what she... How she has reinvented herself. No matter what you think of her or the show, this woman reinvented herself.

Jessica Goodman:
And some of her history, there seemed to be some gaps in it. I would really love a real deep dive fact check on what she's been up to since she left the community. But again, like I said, I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to. Okay. So this is my big word vomit about the show, but that's what I think.

Summer-Watch-Party-My-Unorthodox-Life-Twitter-Jessica-Goodman.png

Money Tips and Lessons Learned


Bobbi Rebell:
That's all very valid. What drew me to the show, coming from my sort of perspective, was the money thing. And one of the things that I think is interesting is there is a missing link in how she sort of went... Because it hasn't been even a decade, I think, right? How did she go from having nothing? And they do make a point in the show that they don't... That the women certainly, and also the men to a large degree, are not educated in any formal way. We do have a storyline, for example-- this is a little bit of a spoiler-- that Batsheva's husband Ben, only has a high school education and therefore his career prospects are limited because that's all they do. They study Torah and they get a high school education and I presume the women have even less of an education.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I really admired, and again we don't get the full picture, is that she did find a way. She understood that she needed money to leave the community, which is often true in... We can only know her perspective. She felt oppressed. She felt she had no control over her life. We don't know the rest of the community but given from her perspective, that's how she felt. She knew money was going to be her answer to freedom and that was one of the things that attracted to me to the show. The ability to be able to support yourself. And she talks about that a lot in her family. That she wants her family to be able to be able to support each of themselves, even though it's very clear that right now, she's really the one supporting this entire huge operation. There's a lot of designer brands out there and I thought that was a very mixed message.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I did kind of come to the conclusion and I'm making this up. I don't know if it's true. My gut feeling is these brands give her the clothing for free, because every single person in her family and in the show is decked out at all times and usually with their labels showing. And I'm wondering if that's because the clothing is given to her? Maybe coming from the magazine world, you have some insight into that, because I do feel like it was a mixed message. You had a lot of women empowerment messages, but then it was almost like they were so weighed down in consumerism. They go to Paris and all they're talking about is shopping, shopping, shopping and I was a little bit uncomfortable with that message.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I mean, I wish I had more insight into how she got the clothes for my magazine world, but I have no idea. I mean, there are always sponsorships and partnerships and I wouldn't be surprised if she negotiated some free clothes or rentals or something like that. But yeah, I mean the consumerism and the capitalism on display in the show is over the top, but I think that's pretty true of any glam fashion-y reality show. That's a part of the reason why people watch. I'm a huge Real Housewives fan and obviously I want to watch and see what Kyle Richards is wearing because it's always really fun. Okay, one thing that you said really struck me that I can't stop thinking about is there does seem to be a gap in how she got to where she is now. So-

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you heard of her before this?

Jessica Goodman:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Exactly! No.

Jessica Goodman:
I've been googling around and trying to find some information on her and basically her "origin story" seems to be that while she was living in what she felt to be an oppressed community, she knew she wanted to get out and she started selling life insurance to the people in her community without her husband knowing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How does that really happen? First of all.

Jessica Goodman:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I love it. I support her. I think that's amazing. That's wonderful and innovative and brave, but anyway, go on.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. So that's how she said she got her nest egg to leave the community. Once she left the community, she says that she started a high heel company, which sounds great. Very cool. She was always into fashion and this is how she did it. How she wanted to become a business woman in that world. And I read an interview with her that was like, "How did you get financing?" And she said that she just kind of met people. She met someone in a doctor's office. She met someone on a flight to Hong Kong and they became her investors... And I just would love a little bit more information about how. Where Julia Haart came from and how was she was able to do this. It's obviously an incredible story and I just want more information about it.

Jessica Goodman:
Because then, once she had the shoe line, she sold it to La Perla and became the creative director there. She designed the thong outfit that Kendall Jenner wore to the Met Gala. That's a huge deal! She's very clearly good and successful. I just need some more information and I feel like... I just feel like she's not giving us the whole story on this show. Which is obvious because she's the one who produced it, like I said. But yeah, I mean this message of being able to start a business from nothing is incredibly powerful and important. I feel like with all of these... We hear about this kind of thing. This is the pull at your heartstrings story of I had nothing, now I own the world. I think what's really important about these stories when you're sharing them with young women is giving all the facts and making them really transparent so people can find ways to actually emulate that and do that for themselves. If you're watching this show looking for tips on how to start your own business, I don't think you're going to feel very equipped to do so after watching it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any favorite quotes from the show?

Jessica Goodman:
Okay, yes. I spoke about her daughter. Her second daughter, Miriam who... She's the one who goes to Stanford and she's building her own apps and she comes out as bisexual in the show and she's very cool and very free. And her mom says she's the reason for why they decided to leave the community really and she says, "People say think outside the box, but I don't even think the box exists." I just feel like she's such a cool mouthpiece for the younger generation on this show and that's just like a great little quote here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think she's awesome. So one of my favorite quotes was Julia. Julia Haart, our protagonist here saying, "I want you to never rely on anyone ever, not even me." And I didn't write down who she said that to, but I think that's really important as a-

Jessica Goodman:
Batsheva. She said it to Batsheva.

Bobbi Rebell:
To Batsheva. See, you are like a super fan of this show. Because, she does have... They're all her employees. Her children all do work for her and she's saying it's important that you establish yourself and that you are earning your money, whether you work for me or someone else and not be dependent on me as a parent. And that obviously is the sweet spot for me, writing my book about how to help our children be independent of us in a loving way and so that really hit home with me. Okay. Last little question about the show and then we're going to wrap up. Who's your favorite character and why?

Jessica Goodman:
I have two favorite character, "characters". Batsheva, just because I think she's the one who's challenging her family the most and who is challenging her mom and I found myself agreeing with her in a lot of situations. Like when Julia invites a woman from her Orthodox community to come to the city for a day of make-over and wisdom, Batsheva was right on the money when she was like, "Maybe this isn't a good idea." And the whole thing felt really exploitative to me and I feel like it did to Batsheva as well. And also Robert! Julia's best friend/employees/person who basically it seems to helm the ship at Elite. I loved him and I'm glad that they haven't really reduced him to just fun, gay sidekick character. They're giving him real storylines as well and I just think he's just a great, fun character on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I also had a tie and I agree with you. Robert was one of my favorites and even though he does seem to come out of reality TV central casting, he's also so good. I mean, he's amazing. I would be curious if he was in this role before the show, because he's just that good. He's so perfect that it's like, whoa. But look, they do say they've been working together forever and he does fit her personality as someone that would be her right-hand man, literally. So I mean-

Jessica Goodman:
Well, I did a little LinkedIn stalking and it seems like he worked with her before.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And the other person that really grew on me and he seems like a minor character, it's Batsheva's husband, Ben. I just want to hug this man through the TV because he married into a certain idea of what his life was going to be. He's not her biological child that was sort of dragged out, which all of them were... Sort of voluntarily because she seems to be on good relations with her ex-husband which is also interesting. But okay. But he is just, he married this woman and then suddenly he's thrust into this whole different life and he is not set up for it. The kid is not ready for this. The first episode, they just say he's in real estate and then it comes out later the only house, the only apartment he's sold is theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it was kind of not a nice dig for Julia to make. I thought that was wrong, because she did this to him. He is... I don't want to say he's a victim because he's not portrayed as a victim in any way and he seems like a fantastic person and he's really trying so hard to adjust to things that have happened to him. He's trying to find his way and be a good husband. He was told that he should have kids the earliest possible and now he's got a wife that wants to wear pants and not have a baby till she's 30. So he's really rolling with the punches and I just think he's amazing. So yay, Ben.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I could do a spin off of the two of them for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
There might be a spinoff. I would not be surprised. Right?

Jessica Goodman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Final thoughts on the show.

Jessica Goodman:
So I still have a couple of episodes left and I'm really excited to keep going and just kind of finish it up. But I would also... If you're interested in the show and you're listening to this, I would recommend there's a great piece on Glamor. Glamour.com, about the kind of contradictions within the show and the backlash to it and explaining a lot of that stuff and I recommend that piece because it helped me think about it in a more critical way. But yeah, I... God, you know what? I'm probably going to read this woman's book too. So, yeah. I'm just interested. I'm just interested.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think it's so highly watchable and I also... For all the flaws that we talked about, I would say overall it's still a winner. I mean at a five stars, I'd still give it four and three quarter stars because while there are these inconsistencies, we don't know what was edited out. We don't know. I thought about if there's even legal things that happen behind the scenes in terms of what she can and cannot say, and it is glossy. It is definitely highly produced. But then again, it works for the show and I totally enjoyed it and I wish this whole group of people all the best success because they are risk-takers even by doing this show, even though they had control over it. And the book, I kind of hope it's not too much of a tell all. I hope that she doesn't reveal too much of her life in the name of building her persona because some things it's okay to keep private, Julia Haart. Even though we're big fans.

Jessica Goodman:
And I just want to shout out Batsheva's TikTok because I'm not even really a big fashion TikTok person and I found myself wasting a lot of time going through her very cute fashion TikToks with Ben. So highly recommend. They do-

Bobbi Rebell:
I haven't looked at it yet but I'm afraid to because it'll just... I'll never write my book.

Jessica Goodman:
No. It's a great procrastination tool.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to check it out as soon as my deadline passes in a month or so. Okay. Let's just talk quickly about They'll Never Catch Us.

Jessica Goodman:
Oh, yeah. So this is my new book, They'll never catch us. It is out July 27th. The date this episode drops, which is so exciting. And it is a young adult thriller about two sisters who are hyper competitive on a cross-country team in a small town in the Catskills, that is very dark and ominous and has a history of cold cases where young female runners go missing and they've never found the killer. And so the sister, the Steckler sisters, they are competing for the number one spot on their cross country team because their family can only afford to send one of them to college and the other one needs to get a scholarship. Their whole lives are wrapped up in cross country and everything changes when a new girl comes to town threatens to be better than both of them and take away the scholarship that one of them might get.

Jessica Goodman:
And when the new girl disappears, everyone starts to think that the Steckler sisters has something to do with her disappearance and they become the main suspects in the case. So it's a fun murder mystery that is about strength and desire and the power of teenage girls, which is what I love to write about. That's my sweet spot. And I think all my books also have a lot of themes about class distinctions, specifically within small communities and how power and money can kind of affect the way that young people think about the world and what their priorities are. So I'm excited. I'm excited for it to come out.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's coming out today. We can't wait to read it.




Follow Jessica!

Follow Bobbi!




Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.





Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Jessica Goodman:
I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome my friends, to a new episode of our 2021 Financial Grownups Summer Watch Party series. During COVID, well I probably should have read more, but I actually did a lot of streaming, show watching and I became a little bit obsessed with the fact that there are a lot of shows out there that talk about money. Many of them totally undiscovered, and they have pretty good money lessons. So we're going to have a summer watch party highlighting some of my personal favorites and some new buzzworthy shows and of course the money tips that we learned from them. I am so excited to have my friend Jessica Goodman here with me for this episode. She is the author of two... Not one, but two best-selling books. They Wish They Were Us and the newly released... Actually it's coming out the day this episode drops, I believe. They'll Never Catch Us. Her books? So successful that she is no longer employed by Cosmos magazine as an editor where she spent many, many years. Hi Jessica.

Jessica Goodman:
Hi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, so I also left out... Give us an update on the books because in addition to They'll Never Catch Us, which I'm holding up here even though no one can see it. But I'll hold it up just so you get the feeling of me holding it up. Your first book had all kinds of Hollywood stuff happening. Give us an update on that.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, absolutely. So my first book, They Wish They Were Us is a prep school murder mystery set in an exclusive school in Long Island. And yeah, it was optioned for TV, starring Sydney Sweeney and Halsey and it's with HBO Max in development right now. So we're hoping it gets made and seeing what's up, but it's been really fun to kind of see that process move along.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glam. Perfect for the show we're going to be talking about. We're going to get to They'll Never Catch Us after we talk about this week's must watch show. This is a new one. So this technically was not watched while I was under quarantine, but it was coming out and getting so much buzz that I decided to throw it in the mix. It is called My Unorthodox Life. I feel like this is almost the new Kardashian show. In that you've got all of these characters, they're this big family and they're sort of... I don't know if this is Kardashian-like or not, but they're super glam and they're sort of a fish out of water story. I don't know. Would you characterize it like that? What do you see? Tell us more about the premise.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, so the premise is that there's this woman named Julia Haart and she's in her forties and she's the CEO of Elite World Group, which is a modeling conglomerate. She's launching a fashion line. She's this very glamorous, seemingly free kind of woman. She's married to an Italian man who used to be her... She used to work with at La Perla. She has four kids, kind of teenagers and young adults. And the show kind of frames this as, this is this crazy kind of New York city family, but twist... She used to be Orthodox Jewish and live in a community in upstate New York called Monsey, which is known for being very insular and having lots of different groups and communities and sects of Orthodox Judaism living there.

Jessica Goodman:
I have some thoughts on the problematic framing of this narrative. That the fact that they kind of frame it as a twist is a little bit othering in a lot of ways, but her whole thing is that she's not a part of this community anymore. And her kids are involved with the community to varying degrees. Her youngest son is... I think he's either in late middle school or early high school, and he still lives up there with his father and is very much a part of the community. And her other kids have varying levels of faith in Judaism.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm kind of amazed that they all agreed to so enthusiastically be part of this show, but they really... I almost feel like they're prepped for it and they're ready and roaring to go, which seems a little jarring. I don't know. And the clothing. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with the styling and the wardrobe on this. I mean, it's over the top. I guess that's part of why I had this Kardashian feeling and I have not been a loyal viewer of the Kardashians. I've kind of watched a few episodes over the years so I'm not really necessarily qualified to say that. But it's pretty flashy.

Jessica Goodman:
Oh, totally. And I feel like that's definitely on purpose because she's framing herself as a fashion mogul and she came into the fashion world having no experience in it and knowing nothing about it and yeah. The fashion and the glam and all of that really is such a part of the show. And also obviously I've been doing deep dive stalking of everybody who's on the show and her oldest daughter Batsheva, who's 27 or something. She's a full fledged fashion influencer. Has a million followers on TikToK. She was doing that before the show launched. So clearly, this is a family where fashion is a big part of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the show is a very deliberate and polished show. There's nothing accidental in this show. It is structured. So give me your take. I mean, I find this fascinating. I didn't binge all of it yet only because I've been blocked by other true obligations, but I'll probably finish the rest right after we're done taping this because it's so fascinating. What's your general takeaway from this? Just to begin with.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, totally. I mean, you told me we were going to talk about this show and I had heard about it a little bit and I was like, oh, I'll watch an episode and see what happens. Fast forward four hours, I'd watched basically the whole thing. I couldn't take my eyes away from it. I think it's extremely compelling television. But yeah, the whole thing is super contrived. It's very clearly... They decide what the storylines are going to be. There's nothing real about it. It's very much like The Hills in that way. Fake reality. And Julia is an executive producer on the show, just like the Kardashians are executive producers on their show. So you're getting the lifestyle and the perspective that she wants you to see and I think you have to really take that into consideration when you're viewing the show.

Jessica Goodman:
I grew up and I'm still a reformed Jewish person and I think what's most interesting to me is seeing the different levels of Judaism portrayed on the show. One of the daughters is basically... I don't know if she considers herself secular, but she is 20 years old and she eats treyf, like oysters and all those kind of stuff. And her older sister is still Orthodox and has a very contrived storyline with her husband about whether or not she's going to be wearing pants, when she's also wearing an off the shoulder shirt. The whole thing is kind of fake, but I'm interested in seeing these conversations play out within the family and how they accept one another's different parts of religion.

Jessica Goodman:
I think there are some really problematic moments in the show too. There's been a real big backlash against her from women in the Orthodox community who say that she portrays them... That Julia says that Orthodox women don't have free will. And a lot of Orthodox women are coming out and saying that's not true. We do have free will and this is how, and this is why. I'm not part of that community so I can't really speculate or comment on that. It's really interesting to watch it play out and to see what she... How she has reinvented herself. No matter what you think of her or the show, this woman reinvented herself.

Jessica Goodman:
And some of her history, there seemed to be some gaps in it. I would really love a real deep dive fact check on what she's been up to since she left the community. But again, like I said, I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to. Okay. So this is my big word vomit about the show, but that's what I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's all very valid. What drew me to the show, coming from my sort of perspective, was the money thing. And one of the things that I think is interesting is there is a missing link in how she sort of went... Because it hasn't been even a decade, I think, right? How did she go from having nothing? And they do make a point in the show that they don't... That the women certainly, and also the men to a large degree, are not educated in any formal way. We do have a storyline, for example-- this is a little bit of a spoiler-- that Batsheva's husband Ben, only has a high school education and therefore his career prospects are limited because that's all they do. They study Torah and they get a high school education and I presume the women have even less of an education.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I really admired, and again we don't get the full picture, is that she did find a way. She understood that she needed money to leave the community, which is often true in... We can only know her perspective. She felt oppressed. She felt she had no control over her life. We don't know the rest of the community but given from her perspective, that's how she felt. She knew money was going to be her answer to freedom and that was one of the things that attracted to me to the show. The ability to be able to support yourself. And she talks about that a lot in her family. That she wants her family to be able to be able to support each of themselves, even though it's very clear that right now, she's really the one supporting this entire huge operation. There's a lot of designer brands out there and I thought that was a very mixed message.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I did kind of come to the conclusion and I'm making this up. I don't know if it's true. My gut feeling is these brands give her the clothing for free, because every single person in her family and in the show is decked out at all times and usually with their labels showing. And I'm wondering if that's because the clothing is given to her? Maybe coming from the magazine world, you have some insight into that, because I do feel like it was a mixed message. You had a lot of women empowerment messages, but then it was almost like they were so weighed down in consumerism. They go to Paris and all they're talking about is shopping, shopping, shopping and I was a little bit uncomfortable with that message.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I mean, I wish I had more insight into how she got the clothes for my magazine world, but I have no idea. I mean, there are always sponsorships and partnerships and I wouldn't be surprised if she negotiated some free clothes or rentals or something like that. But yeah, I mean the consumerism and the capitalism on display in the show is over the top, but I think that's pretty true of any glam fashion-y reality show. That's a part of the reason why people watch. I'm a huge Real Housewives fan and obviously I want to watch and see what Kyle Richards is wearing because it's always really fun. Okay, one thing that you said really struck me that I can't stop thinking about is there does seem to be a gap in how she got to where she is now. So-

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you heard of her before this?

Jessica Goodman:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Exactly! No.

Jessica Goodman:
I've been googling around and trying to find some information on her and basically her "origin story" seems to be that while she was living in what she felt to be an oppressed community, she knew she wanted to get out and she started selling life insurance to the people in her community without her husband knowing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How does that really happen? First of all.

Jessica Goodman:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I love it. I support her. I think that's amazing. That's wonderful and innovative and brave, but anyway, go on.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. So that's how she said she got her nest egg to leave the community. Once she left the community, she says that she started a high heel company, which sounds great. Very cool. She was always into fashion and this is how she did it. How she wanted to become a business woman in that world. And I read an interview with her that was like, "How did you get financing?" And she said that she just kind of met people. She met someone in a doctor's office. She met someone on a flight to Hong Kong and they became her investors... And I just would love a little bit more information about how. Where Julia Haart came from and how was she was able to do this. It's obviously an incredible story and I just want more information about it.

Jessica Goodman:
Because then, once she had the shoe line, she sold it to La Perla and became the creative director there. She designed the thong outfit that Kendall Jenner wore to the Met Gala. That's a huge deal! She's very clearly good and successful. I just need some more information and I feel like... I just feel like she's not giving us the whole story on this show. Which is obvious because she's the one who produced it, like I said. But yeah, I mean this message of being able to start a business from nothing is incredibly powerful and important. I feel like with all of these... We hear about this kind of thing. This is the pull at your heartstrings story of I had nothing, now I own the world. I think what's really important about these stories when you're sharing them with young women is giving all the facts and making them really transparent so people can find ways to actually emulate that and do that for themselves. If you're watching this show looking for tips on how to start your own business, I don't think you're going to feel very equipped to do so after watching it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any favorite quotes from the show?

Jessica Goodman:
Okay, yes. I spoke about her daughter. Her second daughter, Miriam who... She's the one who goes to Stanford and she's building her own apps and she comes out as bisexual in the show and she's very cool and very free. And her mom says she's the reason for why they decided to leave the community really and she says, "People say think outside the box, but I don't even think the box exists." I just feel like she's such a cool mouthpiece for the younger generation on this show and that's just like a great little quote here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think she's awesome. So one of my favorite quotes was Julia. Julia Haart, our protagonist here saying, "I want you to never rely on anyone ever, not even me." And I didn't write down who she said that to, but I think that's really important as a-

Jessica Goodman:
Batsheva. She said it to Batsheva.

Bobbi Rebell:
To Batsheva. See, you are like a super fan of this show. Because, she does have... They're all her employees. Her children all do work for her and she's saying it's important that you establish yourself and that you are earning your money, whether you work for me or someone else and not be dependent on me as a parent. And that obviously is the sweet spot for me, writing my book about how to help our children be independent of us in a loving way and so that really hit home with me. Okay. Last little question about the show and then we're going to wrap up. Who's your favorite character and why?

Jessica Goodman:
I have two favorite character, "characters". Batsheva, just because I think she's the one who's challenging her family the most and who is challenging her mom and I found myself agreeing with her in a lot of situations. Like when Julia invites a woman from her Orthodox community to come to the city for a day of make-over and wisdom, Batsheva was right on the money when she was like, "Maybe this isn't a good idea." And the whole thing felt really exploitative to me and I feel like it did to Batsheva as well. And also Robert! Julia's best friend/employees/person who basically it seems to helm the ship at Elite. I loved him and I'm glad that they haven't really reduced him to just fun, gay sidekick character. They're giving him real storylines as well and I just think he's just a great, fun character on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I also had a tie and I agree with you. Robert was one of my favorites and even though he does seem to come out of reality TV central casting, he's also so good. I mean, he's amazing. I would be curious if he was in this role before the show, because he's just that good. He's so perfect that it's like, whoa. But look, they do say they've been working together forever and he does fit her personality as someone that would be her right-hand man, literally. So I mean-

Jessica Goodman:
Well, I did a little LinkedIn stalking and it seems like he worked with her before.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And the other person that really grew on me and he seems like a minor character, it's Batsheva's husband, Ben. I just want to hug this man through the TV because he married into a certain idea of what his life was going to be. He's not her biological child that was sort of dragged out, which all of them were... Sort of voluntarily because she seems to be on good relations with her ex-husband which is also interesting. But okay. But he is just, he married this woman and then suddenly he's thrust into this whole different life and he is not set up for it. The kid is not ready for this. The first episode, they just say he's in real estate and then it comes out later the only house, the only apartment he's sold is theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it was kind of not a nice dig for Julia to make. I thought that was wrong, because she did this to him. He is... I don't want to say he's a victim because he's not portrayed as a victim in any way and he seems like a fantastic person and he's really trying so hard to adjust to things that have happened to him. He's trying to find his way and be a good husband. He was told that he should have kids the earliest possible and now he's got a wife that wants to wear pants and not have a baby till she's 30. So he's really rolling with the punches and I just think he's amazing. So yay, Ben.

Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I could do a spin off of the two of them for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
There might be a spinoff. I would not be surprised. Right?

Jessica Goodman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Final thoughts on the show.

Jessica Goodman:
So I still have a couple of episodes left and I'm really excited to keep going and just kind of finish it up. But I would also... If you're interested in the show and you're listening to this, I would recommend there's a great piece on Glamor. Glamour.com, about the kind of contradictions within the show and the backlash to it and explaining a lot of that stuff and I recommend that piece because it helped me think about it in a more critical way. But yeah, I... God, you know what? I'm probably going to read this woman's book too. So, yeah. I'm just interested. I'm just interested.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think it's so highly watchable and I also... For all the flaws that we talked about, I would say overall it's still a winner. I mean at a five stars, I'd still give it four and three quarter stars because while there are these inconsistencies, we don't know what was edited out. We don't know. I thought about if there's even legal things that happen behind the scenes in terms of what she can and cannot say, and it is glossy. It is definitely highly produced. But then again, it works for the show and I totally enjoyed it and I wish this whole group of people all the best success because they are risk-takers even by doing this show, even though they had control over it. And the book, I kind of hope it's not too much of a tell all. I hope that she doesn't reveal too much of her life in the name of building her persona because some things it's okay to keep private, Julia Haart. Even though we're big fans.

Jessica Goodman:
And I just want to shout out Batsheva's TikTok because I'm not even really a big fashion TikTok person and I found myself wasting a lot of time going through her very cute fashion TikToks with Ben. So highly recommend. They do-

Bobbi Rebell:
I haven't looked at it yet but I'm afraid to because it'll just... I'll never write my book.

Jessica Goodman:
No. It's a great procrastination tool.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to check it out as soon as my deadline passes in a month or so. Okay. Let's just talk quickly about They'll Never Catch Us.

Jessica Goodman:
Oh, yeah. So this is my new book, They'll never catch us. It is out July 27th. The date this episode drops, which is so exciting. And it is a young adult thriller about two sisters who are hyper competitive on a cross-country team in a small town in the Catskills, that is very dark and ominous and has a history of cold cases where young female runners go missing and they've never found the killer. And so the sister, the Steckler sisters, they are competing for the number one spot on their cross country team because their family can only afford to send one of them to college and the other one needs to get a scholarship. Their whole lives are wrapped up in cross country and everything changes when a new girl comes to town threatens to be better than both of them and take away the scholarship that one of them might get.

Jessica Goodman:
And when the new girl disappears, everyone starts to think that the Steckler sisters has something to do with her disappearance and they become the main suspects in the case. So it's a fun murder mystery that is about strength and desire and the power of teenage girls, which is what I love to write about. That's my sweet spot. And I think all my books also have a lot of themes about class distinctions, specifically within small communities and how power and money can kind of affect the way that young people think about the world and what their priorities are. So I'm excited. I'm excited for it to come out.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's coming out today. We can't wait to read it... Another distraction. I love you Batsheva, but I'm going to read this before I check out your TikTok because I know that TikTok's going to be dangerous for me. Always so good to have you on. Where can people follow you on all the socials?

Jessica Goodman:
You can follow me on Instagram, @jessicagoodman and Twitter, @jessgood. And my website is goodmanjessica.com. So find me in any one of those places and thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for being on. Everyone, please make sure you are following the podcast on whatever platform you've listened to. That's new words because apparently subscriptions have a whole new meaning and this podcast is free for you. So come back next week, we're going to continue our Summer Watch series with another money show next week. See you then. Bye guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by [Steve Stewart 00:22:33]. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by [Ashley Wall 00:22:39]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media. @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanJessica Goodman, My Unorthodox Life, Summer Watch Party, Money Tips
Summer Watch Party: Going from Broke
Summer Watch Party: Going from Broke

Our summer watch party kicks off with this endearing and often hilarious series from producer Ashton Kutcher staring financial expert Tonya Rapley and Chegg CEO Dan Rosensweig.  Bobbi is joined by Financial Wellness Expert Jason Vitug of Phroogal to share why they both could not stop binging this show and why you need to be watching it too!

Summer-Watch-Party-Instagram-Graphic-Going-From-Broke-with-Jason-Vitug.png

A Little About The Show

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a bunch of shows picked out for this summer watch series. Most of which are sort of, I would say under appreciated and undiscovered. And one of them that's definitely under appreciated is a show called Going From Broke. It is on Crackle, our mutual friend, Tonya Rapley is part of it. The show is in its second season. Fun fact, it is produced by Ashton Kutcher who does make occasional appearances. Jason, tell us a little bit about the show.

Jason Vitug:
Well, the basic premise for Going From Broke is that each episode features someone who is well broke. Basically they need an intervention, they need some guidance. It's hosted by Dan Rosenzweig, CEO of Chegg and our friend financial expert, Tonya Rapley, who helps young professionals, young individuals become the CEO of their own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So each episode is about a half an hour and it has kind of a classic reality TV structure and that the hosts come in, they do a little preview of what we're going to see. Then they do a debrief with the guest to figure out what exactly is going on. Then we see the person change their bad habits or make some tough decisions. And then there's progress reports at the end. Jason, okay, besides the fact that we both adore Tonya, what's your take on the show?

Jason Vitug:
It's really an amazing show. Just the great casting. One of the key things that I love about shows that talk about personal finance is when it humanizes the individual. And often we kind of look at the financial aspect, just the numbers, not the emotional or the personal side. And this show does a great job in choosing people with compelling stories. So they're not just broke because they made financial mistakes, they're broke because there's a ton of different aspects when it comes to their life that caused them to take on debt or to live above their means.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, a lot of these people are doing amazing things with their life. I mean, one of the people featured is someone called The Donovan. So he's a musician. He's super talented at what he does. Huge personality, very giving, but yet behind the scenes, it's a mess. Right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And I have to say that The Donovan needs his own show. He was endearing. And I was just laughing throughout the whole entire episode. He was so dependent on his income from his gigs. And when this gig stopped during the pandemic, well, what happens, there was no money coming in and he was relying on his savings and then relying on credit. And it was exacerbating his financial issues. And all of a sudden he was in a situation where he was unhappy with his life. And that's where I related.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also he has a very colorful personality, very over the top lifestyle, but yet he didn't really see it that way. And it really was so as you said, I mean, endearing is just the best word for The Donovan. Because if he didn't have that personality, when things would come up, like his not being able to handle tasks that so many of us take for granted, like just basic cleaning your house, mowing your lawn. Although not that I've ever done that. Watching him sort of cave was so like, you just wanted to give the guy a hug because even though he was saying things that sounded crazy, watching him adapt his self care routine to more frugal approaches was the best.

Jason Vitug:
It was hilarious. And I was smiling throughout the episode and the fact that, yes, I've washed my own dishes. I've cleaned my own house. I've mowed my own lawn, but I can not play two pianos at once. And The Donovan can play two pianos at once. So that goes to show you where his talent lies and where he was using his money to help him in other aspects of his life. But when you get that financial situation where income isn't coming in, you're going to have to make drastic changes. And he was hilarious in terms of wanting to keep his routine when it comes to self care. The lawn was awesome at the final part of the show was just amazing. And I was cracking up and I couldn't wait to watch another episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, totally. And by the way, every episode you have to watch to the end because the closing credits, they put in the funniest clips that just leave you with this feeling where you were just rooting for them and so happy for them that they've achieved, whatever it is they achieved over the episode. And the other common theme that I saw in the casting was that these were people that were very successful and they were also generally very giving people. For example, there was someone in the first episode who had been an athlete and he definitely had a pension for buying expensive sneakers, but he was also paying tuition, I think for, was it his little brother? I mean, these are giving people.

Jason Vitug:
These are all giving people. So when that first episode of season one, his name was Obi, he was a former track athlete and a CEO of his own company. He felt in charge of having to take care of his parent and his brother who would be going to college. And this is just one example of the many episodes where it isn't selfish people or people who are broke because they're living way above their means. And they don't care about anyone else, but themselves. They're actually individuals who have responsibilities and they care about their family members, their neighbors, their community. And so part of their wellbeing when you think about it, that way is taking care of others. And they explore this. Well, what happens when your finances fall apart and you become broke and you still have these responsibilities? And so that was one. And one other show that got me was the mother with the special needs child. And she was in dire straits and she relied on credit cards to supplement her income. And so the first take is, okay, you need to stop using credit and you need to do X, Y, and Z such as rent out room for Airbnb. So these are practical tips. That's what I love. They give practical tips to help people manage their finances and kind of stop being broke.

Jason Vitug:
But then there's a point where she wanted to continue to spend eight weeks vacation in Mexico. Part of that was, you could say, okay, well that's luxurious spending. Why would you spend eight weeks, all that cash to go to Mexico? And she shares that is the only place and time where she sees her special needs daughter smiling and being happy. And so you have to connect with people in that human element where we make these financial decisions and we think it's just the numbers, but there's always something deeper behind it. And so for that place automatically, I said, okay, stop going. You can't go to Mexico. And that would probably be my advice, just like what they started with. And then towards the end, they're like, well, yes, that's how you should be spending your money, especially when it's helping your child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, like you said, they're very direct. They're very blunt. They're very understanding. I love an episode where they literally, I mean, this guy, he felt that he was a contractor basically. And he bought a Prius to save money because it's much more fuel efficient, but then he literally bought a truck because he felt that when he went to bid on jobs, no one would give him the job if he wasn't driving a truck and they convinced him to sell, I don't know if you saw this episode, they convinced him to sell the truck. And you know what, he was still closing the deals, but he needed an outside person to show him that. So having that outside perspective, and they do make people sell things. I mean, we were talking about Obi. Obi literally this is a spoiler, literally sells shoes that he is wearing. He bought some expensive sneakers. They made him take them off his feet. It's just an awesome show.

Jason Vitug:
It really is. And I'm a former sneakerhead. So I used to have those expensive sneakers. And so I related to him when the buyer wanted the shoes off his feet and he was going to give a pretty penny. And that is a tough decision. And some people might say, it's just sneakers. I'm telling you from a former sneakerhead, it's not just sneakers. There's a lot tied into it. And so for him to do that, just showed some growth. And I love that about the show.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to some of the lesson takeaways. Here's some of the money tips slash lessons from the show. First of all, I think there's a lot of perspective and understanding, for example, a lot of the spending that we see seems ridiculous, but it's brought to us in empathy and with love. And I think that's a great thing to understand that we're all human and we all have different values, right?

Jason Vitug:
Absolutely. And that kind of leads into that circumstances change. And season two takes place during the pandemic. And the pandemic has changed the lives of so many people and understanding that there are external factors that impact our finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Debtors, a lot of us can be very judgy when it comes to people in debt. But the truth is a lot of the things that put them in debt are things that could easily happen to any of us. And they're very specific down to exactly where the money is spent and we can all relate. I mean, shutting down Amazon or not feeling like you have control over your life if you don't have that money to spend, who hasn't been there at some time, if we're all being honest.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I've been there. And what's often necessary is doing these line by line breakdowns. And they do this really well from our friend, Tonya, who goes through the budget. And this is kind of like an indication that most people are successful with what they do and with their finances until something happens. And when something happens, you have to start asking the question, well, where's the money going?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also look, they do tell the people that are sort of the stars of the show that they have to negotiate. They need to go in and get better deals. For example, if they have a lot of credit card debt, they need to figure out how best to manage it without just kind of continuing to pay it down. You can call up the people that you owe money to and make a better deal for yourself. And I think that's valuable too, to be your own self advocate.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. It's really making those tough decisions. And sometimes those tough decisions are things like opening up your house to a roommate. And if you're used to living by yourself and having someone live in your house is quite a change. And so there's another person that we talked about, Obi selling his sneakers and others who decided to live with relatives and Airbnb that home. And so there are all these decisions that need to be made in order to get your finances from where they are to where you want them to be. And they're not easy, they're tough, but you need to make these tough decisions and they help them through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, they had to sell stuff that was literally part of their identity. That's a really hard thing. There's a lot of tough love in this show. I mean, there's a great line from Dan Rosensweig to a guest who kept talking about how much money they make. And he was like, no, you don't make money. You generate revenue. There is a difference. And then this was the guy who had to sell his truck. Gary V yelled at him for a while and told him to Google the word profit. And he literally, Gary V starts yelling. It was such a great scene. Gary V is yelling at this guy, saying, sell everything you own. And then he said a lot of other mean stuff. So I won't spoil that. You guys can watch that episode. It's awesome because it really crosses a line that a lot of financial shows are just too polite to cross, but they get really kind of, they just... Let's just say that. I don't know. I'll leave it there.

Jason Vitug:
There's a lot of emotional intelligence in the show. There really is a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. And it is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end. And as you mentioned, stay tuned till the end credits because you're going to crack up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is there's sort of an Easter egg in this. I mean, look, it's not a surprise. It is produced by Ashton Kutcher's production company. So he knows people. So in addition to Ashton Kutcher, there's a lot of celebrity appearances. I guess we can spoil some of them. We won't say which shows they're in, but I know Demi Lovato was in one and Jewel was in one. Who else do you remember spotting?

Jason Vitug:
There were executives such as the executive for Airbnb was there. And so there are a number, but the Demi Lovato one when you get to that episode was great because it shows that people who have achieved success in their careers and have a spotlight on them, do have financial struggles and issues as well. And so it's all connected and I love that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. The show just makes so much sense. I wish I had discovered it earlier. I'm glad there's two seasons. I hope they do more. I also, as we mentioned, we're a fan of Tonya's. I also had remembered that I interviewed Dan Rosensweig when I was a reporter at Reuters, he was at Yahoo where he was, I believe the COO. He's the CEO of Chegg. The program, as I mentioned, produced by Ashton Kutcher is sponsored by Chegg and there's definitely corporate support. And I love to see that. I think it's great. Chegg's an educational company, and this is a wonderful way to both get their message out and also do some great [inaudible 00:17:07] content. Right?

Jason Vitug:
I agree. I think it's important for us to kind of get this tie... If a corporation understands the importance of financial education and can create content that entertains me and is educational, it is a win. We need more of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. I give it five stars. It is available. That's just a made up thing, but I'm giving it five stars. We don't have a scale. It's just five stars. That's going to be the most. And it's available on Crackle, which I also never watched. I had to download it just to watch this, but Crackle is free. There's some ads, but Crackle is free. Jason, your final thoughts.

Jason Vitug:
I recommend everyone checking it out. It is a free app, so you're not spending any money to enjoy the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So keep at it guys. We think you're doing great.




Follow Jason!

Follow Bobbi!





Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.





Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what, finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. It is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money being a grown up is hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, my grow up friends to our first ever financial grownup summer watch party series. During COVID you guys, I had a chance to check out some streaming shows and there's a lot of uncovered gems out there that have really got amazing money lessons. So I thought what a great idea to highlight a few of them in a little summer mini series for everybody. So we're going to highlight some of my personal favorites, and then we're going to go over the money tips from them in the coming weeks. Now for this episode, I am so excited to be joined by my friend financial wellness guru, Jason Vitug author of You Only Live Once: The Roadmap to Wellness and a Purposeful Life. Also, the brains behind Phroogal spelled with a P-H-R-O-O-G-A-L. Did I spell that right Jason?

Jason Vitug:
You got it absolutely correctly. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason wait, you joined the podcasting world. You just launched your own podcast.

Jason Vitug:
I have. It's Live Financially Well, so I decided let's just jump in it and have awesome conversations with myself. So I'll be reading articles and giving commentary and insights on the articles that I've written. So it's a new way to kind of digest the information and the knowledge that I've written about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and a lot of people like to hear the audio of articles in that it's kind of like books on tape, Phroogal on tape, right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And it's humbling when my brothers and sisters who are part of my target market, they don't read my articles or my blog and they call me or they text me. And so I was recording and sending it to them because they have busy lives and they prefer, or they're auditory learners. They learn listening as opposed to sitting down and reading an article. And I figure there might be way more people. And just like your listeners who learn through voice versus written word.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also through watching. I mean, I do a lot of book recommendations on this podcast and I guess that same idea inspired me to do the summer watch series because I think a lot of people like to consume content and maybe learn through video. I think that's something we learned over the pandemic with everybody learning stuff and having meetings over Zoom. Yes, there can be too much Zoom. Absolutely. But we also can actually learn a lot through video, right?

Jason Vitug:
We really do. That's why I'm excited about this discussion today because it's a different form of learning. So entertainment or edutainment. So this is going to be exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Edutainment. Okay. I have a bunch of shows picked out for this summer watch series. Most of which are sort of, I would say underappreciated and undiscovered. And one of them that's definitely underappreciated is a show called Going From broke. It is on Crackle, our mutual friend, Tonya Rapley is part of it. The show is in its second season. Fun fact, it is produced by Ashton Kutcher who does make occasional appearances. Jason, tell us a little bit about the show.

Jason Vitug:
Well, the basic premise for Going From Broke is that each episode features someone who is well broke. Basically they need an intervention, they need some guidance. It's hosted by Dan Rosenzweig, CEO of Chegg and our friend financial expert, Tonya Rapley, who helps young professionals, young individuals become the CEO of their own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So each episode is about a half an hour and it has kind of a classic reality TV structure and that the hosts come in, they do a little preview of what we're going to see. Then they do a debrief with the guest to figure out what exactly is going on. Then we see the person change their bad habits or make some tough decisions. And then there's progress reports at the end. Jason, okay, besides the fact that we both adore Tonya, what's your take on the show?

Jason Vitug:
It's really an amazing show. Just the great casting. One of the key things that I love about shows that talk about personal finance is when it humanizes the individual. And often we kind of look at the financial aspect, just the numbers, not the emotional or the personal side. And this show does a great job in choosing people with compelling stories. So they're not just broke because they made financial mistakes, they're broke because there's a ton of different aspects when it comes to their life that caused them to take on debt or to live above their means.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, a lot of these people are doing amazing things with their life. I mean, one of the people featured is someone called The Donovan. So he's a musician. He's super talented at what he does. Huge personality, very giving, but yet behind the scenes, it's a mess. Right?

Jason Vitug:
It is. And I have to say that The Donovan needs his own show. He was endearing. And I was just laughing throughout the whole entire episode. He was so dependent on his income from his gigs. And when this gig stopped during the pandemic, well, what happens, there was no money coming in and he was relying on his savings and then relying on credit. And it was exacerbating his financial issues. And all of a sudden he was in a situation where he was unhappy with his life. And that's where I related.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also he has a very colorful personality, very over the top lifestyle, but yet he didn't really see it that way. And it really was so as you said, I mean, endearing is just the best word for The Donovan. Because if he didn't have that personality, when things would come up, like his not being able to handle tasks that so many of us take for granted, like just basic cleaning your house, mowing your lawn. Although not that I've ever done that. Watching him sort of cave was so like, you just wanted to give the guy a hug because even though he was saying things that sounded crazy, watching him adapt his self care routine to more frugal approaches was the best.

Jason Vitug:
It was hilarious. And I was smiling throughout the episode and the fact that, yes, I've washed my own dishes. I've cleaned my own house. I've mowed my own lawn, but I can not play two pianos at once. And The Donovan can play two pianos at once. So that goes to show you where his talent lies and where he was using his money to help him in other aspects of his life. But when you get that financial situation where income isn't coming in, you're going to have to make drastic changes. And he was hilarious in terms of wanting to keep his routine when it comes to self care. The lawn was awesome at the final part of the show was just amazing. And I was cracking up and I couldn't wait to watch another episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, totally. And by the way, every episode you have to watch to the end because the closing credits, they put in the funniest clips that just leave you with this feeling where you were just rooting for them and so happy for them that they've achieved, whatever it is they achieved over the episode. And the other common theme that I saw in the casting was that these were people that were very successful and they were also generally very giving people. For example, there was someone in the first episode who had been an athlete and he definitely had a pension for buying expensive sneakers, but he was also paying tuition, I think for, was it his little brother? I mean, these are giving people.

Jason Vitug:
These are all giving people. So when that first episode of season one, his name was Obi, he was a former track athlete and a CEO of his own company. He felt in charge of having to take care of his parent and his brother who would be going to college. And this is just one example of the many episodes where it isn't selfish people or people who are broke because they're living way above their means. And they don't care about anyone else, but themselves. They're actually individuals who have responsibilities and they care about their family members, their neighbors, their community. And so part of their wellbeing when you think about it, that way is taking care of others. And they explore this. Well, what happens when your finances fall apart and you become broke and you still have these responsibilities? And so that was one. And one other show that got me was the mother with the special needs child. And she-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Go ahead.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. So she was in dire straits and she relied on credit cards to supplement her income. And so the first take is, okay, you need to stop using credit and you need to do X, Y, and Z such as rent out room for Airbnb. So these are practical tips. That's what I love. They give practical tips to help people manage their finances and kind of stop being broke.

Jason Vitug:
But then there's a point where she wanted to continue to spend eight weeks vacation in Mexico. Part of that was, you could say, okay, well that's luxurious spending. Why would you spend eight weeks, all that cash to go to Mexico? And she shares that is the only place and time where she sees her special needs daughter smiling and being happy. And so you have to connect with people in that human element where we make these financial decisions and we think it's just the numbers, but there's always something deeper behind it. And so for that place automatically, I said, okay, stop going. You can't go to Mexico. And that would probably be my advice, just like what they started with. And then towards the end, they're like, well, yes, that's how you should be spending your money, especially when it's helping your child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, like you said, they're very direct. They're very blunt. They're very understanding. I love an episode where they literally, I mean, this guy, he felt that he was a contractor basically. And he bought a Prius to save money because it's much more fuel efficient, but then he literally bought a truck because he felt that when he went to bid on jobs, no one would give him the job if he wasn't driving a truck and they convinced him to sell, I don't know if you saw this episode, they convinced him to sell the truck. And you know what, he was still closing the deals, but he needed an outside person to show him that. So having that outside perspective, and they do make people sell things. I mean, we were talking about Obi. Obi literally this is a spoiler, literally sells shoes that he is wearing. He bought some expensive sneakers. They made him take them off his feet. It's just an awesome show.

Jason Vitug:
It really is. And I'm a former sneakerhead. So I used to have those expensive sneakers. And so I related to him when the buyer wanted the shoes off his feet and he was going to give a pretty penny. And that is a tough decision. And some people might say, it's just sneakers. I'm telling you from a former sneakerhead, it's not just sneakers. There's a lot tied into it. And so for him to do that, just showed some growth. And I love that about the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to some of the lesson takeaways. Here's some of the money tips slash lessons from the show. First of all, I think there's a lot of perspective and understanding, for example, a lot of the spending that we see seems ridiculous, but it's brought to us in empathy and with love. And I think that's a great thing to understand that we're all human and we all have different values, right?

Jason Vitug:
Absolutely. And that kind of leads into that circumstances change. And season two takes place during the pandemic. And the pandemic has changed the lives of so many people and understanding that there are external factors that impact our finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Debtors, a lot of us can be very judgy when it comes to people in debt. But the truth is a lot of the things that put them in debt are things that could easily happen to any of us. And they're very specific down to exactly where the money is spent and we can all relate. I mean, shutting down Amazon or not feeling like you have control over your life if you don't have that money to spend, who hasn't been there at some time, if we're all being honest.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I've been there. And what's often necessary is doing these line by line breakdowns. And they do this really well from our friend, Tonya, who goes through the budget. And this is kind of like an indication that most people are successful with what they do and with their finances until something happens. And when something happens, you have to start asking the question, well, where's the money going?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And also look, they do tell the people that are sort of the stars of the show that they have to negotiate. They need to go in and get better deals. For example, if they have a lot of credit card debt, they need to figure out how best to manage it without just kind of continuing to pay it down. You can call up the people that you owe money to and make a better deal for yourself. And I think that's valuable too, to be your own self advocate.

Jason Vitug:
Yeah. It's really making those tough decisions. And sometimes those tough decisions are things like opening up your house to a roommate. And if you're used to living by yourself and having someone live in your house is quite a change. And so there's another person that we talked about, Obi selling his sneakers and others who decided to live with relatives and Airbnb that home. And so there are all these decisions that need to be made in order to get your finances from where they are to where you want them to be. And they're not easy, they're tough, but you need to make these tough decisions and they help them through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, they had to sell stuff that was literally part of their identity. That's a really hard thing. There's a lot of tough love in this show. I mean, there's a great line from Dan Rosensweig to a guest who kept talking about how much money they make. And he was like, no, you don't make money. You generate revenue. There is a difference. And then this was the guy who had to sell his truck. Gary V yelled at him for a while and told him to Google the word profit. And he literally, Gary V starts yelling. It was such a great scene. Gary V is yelling at this guy, saying, sell everything you own. And then he said a lot of other mean stuff. So I won't spoil that. You guys can watch that episode. It's awesome because it really crosses a line that a lot of financial shows are just too polite to cross, but they get really kind of, they just... Let's just say that. I don't know. I'll leave it there.

Jason Vitug:
There's a lot of emotional intelligence in the show. There really is a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Jason Vitug:
And I have to admit, I laughed. I cried. There was a lot of tears because I connected with these people and their stories. And it is really awesome seeing where they started in the beginning of the show and where they end. And as you mentioned, stay tuned till the end credits because you're going to crack up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is there's sort of an Easter egg in this. I mean, look, it's not a surprise. It is produced by Ashton Kutcher's production company. So he knows people. So in addition to Ashton Kutcher, there's a lot of celebrity appearances. I guess we can spoil some of them. We won't say which shows they're in, but I know Demi Lovato was in one and Jewel was in one. Who else do you remember spotting?

Jason Vitug:
There were executives such as the executive for Airbnb was there. And so there are a number, but the Demi Lovato one when you get to that episode was great because it shows that people who have achieved success in their careers and have a spotlight on them, do have financial struggles and issues as well. And so it's all connected and I love that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. The show just makes so much sense. I wish I had discovered it earlier. I'm glad there's two seasons. I hope they do more. I also, as we mentioned, we're a fan of Tonya's. I also had remembered that I interviewed Dan Rosensweig when I was a reporter at Reuters, he was at Yahoo where he was, I believe the COO. He's the CEO of Chegg. The program, as I mentioned, produced by Ashton Kutcher is sponsored by Chegg and there's definitely corporate support. And I love to see that. I think it's great. Chegg's an educational company, and this is a wonderful way to both get their message out and also do some great [inaudible 00:17:07] content. Right?

Jason Vitug:
I agree. I think it's important for us to kind of get this tie... If a corporation understands the importance of financial education and can create content that entertains me and is educational, it is a win. We need more of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. I give it five stars. It is available. That's just a made up thing, but I'm giving it five stars. We don't have a scale. It's just five stars. That's going to be the most. And it's available on Crackle, which I also never watched. I had to download it just to watch this, but Crackle is free. There's some ads, but Crackle is free. Jason, your final thoughts.

Jason Vitug:
I recommend everyone checking it out. It is a free app, so you're not spending any money to enjoy the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. So keep at it guys. We think you're doing great. Jason, where can people catch up with you?

Jason Vitug:
You can find me on social media, Twitter and Instagram. That's where I'm most active @phroogal, That's P-H-R-O-O-A-L. And you can also converse with me via the website, Phroogal.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason, thank you so much for joining me.

Jason Vitug:
Thank you. This was fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And everyone follow Jason. Follow me on Instagram at @bobbirebell1 and DM me what other shows you want us to talk about on the show. We're going to do a bunch of episodes in the summer watch series. Thanks again. We'll see you next time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.


Financial Grownup, Money, Personal Finance, Reality TV starsBobbi Rebell KaufmanGoing From Broke, Summer Watch Party, Crackle, Reality TV, Tonya Rapley, Dan Rosensweig, Chegg, Ashton Kutcher, Jason Vitug, Money, Phroogal