Sometimes the best career role models are your first ones. For Ellevate Network CEO Kristy Wallace unfiltered advice from waitresses at a summer job she started as a teen still ring true. Plus her money tip that will instantly save us all cash and extra pounds this holiday season. 

Kristy’s Money Story:

Kristy Wallace:
Yeah, it was really interesting. I grew up in this tiny town in New Jersey, called Sea Isle City, and my sister and I worked at this Italian restaurant Bono's and we were teenagers when we did this. We worked there for years every summer, but all of the other waitresses were older. They were oftentimes already in college or many of them were teachers and this was their summer job when school was out. And they really helped instill in us values and perspective when it came to the work we were doing. Waitressing is so interesting because you get tips, you walk out of the door with cash every night and you can easily, especially if you're a young teenager want to go spend that money. But we saw from the teachers how much they saved that money. They worked really hard to get the tips. To keep track of that money and then saved it because that was what was helping to pay their bills and helping them during the school year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you tempted when you first started waitressing to just go out and spend the money?

Kristy Wallace:
Of course, of course. And especially I think when new have new driving cars. And so we wanted to go to the mall and buy things and just always going to Wawa, which was this convenience store there and buying drinks and sandwiches. I mean, it's so easy to just throw money away. And the advice that these other waitresses gave us around saving that money and using it more meaningfully. It really stood out. It stood out to me and it continues to stand out to me today because I think oftentimes it's, particularly now with credit cards and you just put your card down and buy, buy, buy and then suddenly you get the bill and it's wide eyes, sticker shock.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did the conversations start? I mean you guys were the new kids there, did they just see what was going on that you were spending your money? What happened?

Kristy Wallace:
I think the conversation started earlier in the season when things were a little bit slower and they would be talking about, how much money did you make last night or tonight, things are a bit slow. Here's how much I'm hoping to make this summer. This is why it's important to make X amount of dollars a summer and how it helps with rent or helps pay my bills during these months and into the winter. So they were just with each other very honest and transparent about their expectations for how much money they wanted to make or needed to make, how they were going to use it and spend it. And we're very inclusive of my sister and I in those conversations. So clearly we didn't, we were still living at home, we were younger, we didn't have that perspective. And we I'm sure would say in this kind of some flippant comments like, Oh, we just go out and buy a bunch of stuff.

Kristy Wallace:
That's great. We have cash. And so they definitely sat us down and said, "Listen, waitressing is a great job but you end up with a lot of cash and it can be easy to not keep track of how much you're making and to put it in the bank and to manage it wisely. And you know, just for now, and especially when you're going to college in a few years and you're older, it's really important that you understand how you spend your money and you spend it wisely." A few years later when I was going to college and using the money I made in the summer to pay for my bills and expenses once I was in school, I came out of the gate just, with all the insights I needed to be successful in that budgeting and in that planning.

“Take the extra shifts.. Put in 110%. Understand how your work relates to the money you are making.”

Kristy’s Money Lesson:

Kristy Wallace:
Be mindful of how you spend your money. You really want to understand ways you can save how you spend the money, but then also the impact you personally can have on driving that income, right? And when I was waitressing, something that I learned from the other waitresses was tips are relational to service. So if you have good service and you work hard to be the best at your job, then you get some money or take the extra shifts. There were a number of summers, particularly once I was in college then I didn't take a single day off the entire summer. I worked every day and I loved it because that meant I was making money and I had my little book where I was keeping track of how much I was making and how much I wanted to make.

Kristy Wallace:
So the lesson is just put in 110%, understand how your work relates to the money that you're making, particularly as you get into the workforce into a corporate environment. Really looking at the work that you do, how that ties to the business and the business success, and using that as a motivator for you to do great work, but then also make that extra money and ask for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of extra money, you have extra money because of the everyday money tip that you're going to share. Tell us your everyday money tip.

“Do great work but also make that extra money. Ask for it. ”

Kristy’s Money Tip:

Kristy Wallace:
I have three kids at home. They are little kids and every month or week the grocery bills were astronomical. And at the same time I was finding that I was spending a lot of cash every week and I couldn't quite understand why. So I spent a lot of time, I looked at all my budgets, my numbers, and where I was spending money and how I was spending it. I love Excel spreadsheets, so I categorized everything. And realized it was spending not just a lot of money at the grocery store, but a lot of money eating out just during the week. Getting coffee, grabbing breakfast, lunch could easily add up to $20, $30 a day. And when you think about that over five days a week, plus the grocery bills, it really adds up. So I stopped doing that. I stopped eating out. I would bring my breakfast and lunch. My husband and I would make these little egg muffins.

Kristy Wallace:
You make eggs in a muffin tin, so they're easy to just grab and go and make coffee at home. A pound of coffee is $12 versus a $4 cup of coffee when you're out. I love making soups and stews. They're relatively inexpensive to make and they freeze and they last a long time, so I make a big pot every weekend of something and just found it to be not only easy but financially healthy. And healthy for me in terms of the food I was eating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I think the everyday money tip there is actually look at the numbers because this is not something new. It's not something that we haven't all thought of. We all know that we shouldn't be spending so much money out, but it takes a lot to actually sit down and say, "Wait, look at what I'm actually spending," to actually add up the receipts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Especially when your grocery bill was high as well, so you might've thought, well I don't want to spend more money on groceries and if you eat at home in theory you'd be spending more on groceries so it's all going to work out. Not so much. I think you have a great example and making things like soups and stews in batches. I think that's a key thing that you have it ready in advance. It's something that I need to work on more is to actually plan in advance what you're going to be bringing with you when you go out so you're not left scrounging for coffee because you didn't have the coffee machine set the night before. And also maybe have a coffee cup that's portable that you can bring with you because you don't have something to bring in the coffee with you and it's time to go. You're kind of stuck and you're going to buy that coffee on the run.

Kristy Wallace:
Plan ahead, be creative. There's lots of great sites and recipes out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your favorite site?

Kristy Wallace:
I like all recipes actually because it's crowdsourced and so there's kind of some fun things and the comments are really interesting. Food 52 is always great. There's some great bloggers out there. We will sometimes try to eat Paleo or maybe Whole 30, so some really great sites out there with some good modifications to recipes that are really healthy and delicious.

“Plan ahead. Be creative. There’s lot of great sites and recipes out there.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Let's talk about work ethic and the fact that while it's nice to enjoy your work, we all should. It is also about the money. In fact, if we're being honest, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are showing up because they are paying you money. I love that we're paying attention more these days to things like self-care and "work life" balance and it's about time that matters, but let's not forget Kristy's advice. Take the extra shifts because work is about making money. Not saying we can't all benefit from a little yoga. All that stuff matters too, but paying bills is also a form of wellness. Think of all the reduced stress by having extra cash in the bank. Don't lose sight of that.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Christie talks a lot about meal planning.With the holidays coming up maybe also do some shopping planning. We're just a smidge ahead of black Friday and there's nothing wrong with shopping, but if you plan out ahead of time what you're going to buy, those plans will go a long way to keeping you from buying something not on your list because it's on sale. That's not a good reason. I've fallen into that trap. Trust me, and also don't forget if you do fall into that trap and buy something and you regret it. As I've said before, don't be afraid to return it. You usually can. Problem solved.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Kristy’s website - www.ellevatenetwork.com

• Ellevate’s new peer networking circle Squads

• www.allrecipes.com

• food52.com

Follow Kristy!

• Instagram - @kristyawallace

• Twitter - @kristyawallace

• LinkedIn

Follow Ellevate Network!

• Instagram - @Ellevate_Ntwk

• Facebook - @EllevateNetwork

• Twitter - @EllevateNtwk

• Pinterest - @ellevatenetwork

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Just in time for the holidays, Jen Smith, co-host of the Frugal Friends podcast and the author of the new book "Pay Off Your Debt For Good" joins us with her spending strategies so we can all shop like Financial Grownups.

3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup

1. Focus on your habits

2. Figure out what you value

3. Let go of guilt and shame

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jen’s Website - www.modernfrugality.com

• Jen’s podcast The Frugal Friends Podcast

• Jen’s new book - Pay Off Your Debt For Good

Follow Jen!

• Instagram - @modernfrugality

• Facebook - @modernfrugality

• Twitter - @modernfrugality

• Pinterest - @modernfrugality

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Money coach Whitney Hansen, who hosts the Money Nerds podcast, reveals how the pain of poverty and family instability almost led her to a tragic decision as a teenager. We also discuss how the challenges of true financial struggle can impact a family and inform priorities as an adult. 

Whitney’s Money Story:

Whitney Hansen:
I still get choked up about this too, even to this day. But it was a really tough time in my life because my parents were going through this divorce and they were married for a long time, six kids, so they had a really great life together. But my dad started a business and that business led to unhealthy habits. So he had really, I guess some issues with boundaries. It was a 365, 24/7 business. And so he turned to-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the business?

Whitney Hansen:
Pallet distributing.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's that?

Whitney Hansen:
Pallets, you always see him on Pinterest when people make like coffee tables and furniture and stuff from them, but it's what carries goods across the country in semi-trucks. So it's the wooden like crates almost. That's what his business was, was fixing those up and selling them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And so had he had that business before your parents got divorced or was it a new thing, so that was another change?

Whitney Hansen:
So it was before they officially got divorced. He started the business probably about 10 years before they officially divorced. And so it was just a really consuming business. He was terrible at delegating, could not find the right type of help. So instead of trusting people, he put all of that pressure on himself. And that led to having to take pallet calls at like two in the morning sometimes. It was just a nightmare. It really was.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then something happened with a mattress?

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, so with the mattress, after they divorced, my mom moved up to Boise and truly she left that relationship for her life. The abuse was getting so bad and it was just a terrible situation. And so she moved up to Boise making $7.25 an hour at a hobby and craft store and trying to support six kids in this little two bedroom apartment. And we were so broke, Bobbi, like we were broke. We didn't have any money at all, so we were sleeping on the floor.

Whitney Hansen:
My mom and I, one day we were walking and we found a mattress in the garbage can. So we went home, we grabbed her car, threw this on the top of the car. It's really that ridiculous. We both like had our hands out the window holding the mattress down and we took it home. But we were so freaking excited because for our family, that meant we didn't have to sleep on the floor. And it was such a sad moment, but such a powerful one. I was 16 and I will never forget that. It taught me my first personal finance lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about that.

Whitney Hansen:
Well, I started to really reflect on that and what I learned is that there's really a difference between a want and a need. A lot of times we say that we need something. Oh I need to get this new shirt, I need to get this new mattress, I need to get whatever it is.

Whitney Hansen:
But there's a huge difference between what we truly want and what we truly need. So I always carried that with me throughout my entire adulthood and my being a grownup. I mean that's something that I've always looked at, is this truly a want, Whitney, or is this a need? Of course it's like giving yourself permission to buy what you want on occasion, but always putting that in that perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about that time of your life. I mean, how did you survive? How did you get other things? Were you able to get it through people that were helpful to you? You were you working as a 16 year old?

Whitney Hansen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, so that's the sad thing. When you come from a really poor, poverty type situation, the families all working together to support everybody. So I had my own job. I had a job when I was actually 14 is when I officially started working. But I bought the family car when I was 16. My mom took out a loan, I made the payment, and I paid for the car insurance. That's just the way we did it.

Whitney Hansen:
We had a ton of help. Our church was super great. They were really helpful from that perspective as well. But I didn't deal with it well. I've actually never shared this publicly, but when I was 16 I was hospitalized for suicide.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, it was a terrible time. It really was not great. But what I started learning from all of this stuff was that when you have control over your money, you have options, and that's what I decided when I was 16, I was never going to be stuck in a really crappy situation because of money. I knew that was something I always wanted to have control over.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you having with your mom? Because at 16 you're not that young. You know what's up.

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely did know what was up. One of the biggest conversations that she shared with me was the importance of education. That was the one thing she had regretted her entire life. Her family did pretty well. Her parents died when she was really young. They did well enough that they left her some money for college, but she blew through it all with my dad. They just were very financially irresponsible. So that was one of the big conversations was Whitney, you need to get an education. You need to make sure you can take care of yourself no matter what. So that was always the focus of the conversation when I was a kid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you in the sibling order? What were your other siblings doing at this time in your life?

Whitney Hansen:
Second oldest. My oldest sister, she had quite a rough childhood herself, of course. She ended up moving out of the house officially when she was 16. She moved in with her boyfriend at that time. She has four kids now, so she's doing super great. But she was running her own family. She got pregnant when she was 17 in high school.

“When you have control over your money you have options. ”

Whitney’s Money Lesson:

Whitney Hansen:
I think the biggest lesson is how much control you have when you have money. When you have that money instead of just immediately blowing it on stuff that we don't really need, if you start to prioritize your own financial responsibility, and as a woman especially, you have to be able to take care of yourself in some capacity.

Whitney Hansen:
Now that's not saying don't be a stay at home mom if that's your dream, do it. But make sure that you have some skills that you can fall back on. I think that's one of the biggest lessons I can impart for people is just make sure you can take care of yourself, whether it's divorce or death or disease, we don't know what's going to happen in life with our partners, so you have to be able to really financially take care of yourself and be a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so impactful what you're saying and really hits home with so many people because we don't know it. It may be something like a divorce, but also sometimes people become injured. Your partner may lose their job. There can be a lot of unintended things that happen and things that you can't possibly plan for, but you have to always be able to have an income stream, even if you take it up and down at different points in your life. Having that ability and the education to do that is really important.

“Make sure you can take care of yourself..we don’t know what is going in life with our partners so you have to really be able to take care of yourself financially and really be a grownup.”

Whitney’s Money Tip:

Whitney Hansen:
Oh, I love this. This is such a nerdy one, but it works wonders. My favorite tip in the world is for any person that's trying to better their financial life and doesn't quite know where their money's going, to print off your past 30 days of your bank statement and or your credit card statement anymore, we have Venmo as well, that all counts. Print those off, have those sitting in front of you and then assign three different categories that you tend to overspend on. So for me it's eating out, it's coffee, and it's Amazon. Amazon's the worst for me. So I will print off those statements, I'll write those at the top, and I will literally go line by line and highlight each of the different transactions as a specific color to make sure that I am looking at every single transaction.

Whitney Hansen:
It works like crazy because you have to highlight those transactions and you have to remember I'm the one that swiped my card this many times. This is on me. I think it's so much more personal than just like a roll up thing. I love apps and software. I think they're amazing, but when it's just a roll up number, it's not the same as when you actually have to physically highlight those things. It really does trigger a lot of changes in your financial life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us an example of something, especially when you first started doing this, that you noticed that you were surprised by.

Whitney Hansen:
For me, I've always been pretty frugal because of my background, but what I can tell you is I did this in a group with a bunch of college students, actually. We were doing this exercise and one guy kind of looked up and he had this deer in the headlights look. He was all white, and I'm not a nurse, but I'm like "Dude, are you all right? Do you need to get out of here? What's going on?" And he's like "Well, I just finally realized how much I spent on eating out." I'm like "Okay, cool. Well, how much should you spend?"

Whitney Hansen:
"I spent $400."

Whitney Hansen:
Now I think you and I get that that's not necessarily good or bad, it's all a proportion of your income. But he told me his income was $800 per month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Whitney Hansen:
I was like "Well, homie, I think 50% going directly towards eating out is probably not great." But he had no idea because he was just mindlessly spending and not even paying attention. I think it's really normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, a lot of us don't know. What about for you personally, what have you noticed?

Whitney Hansen:
For what I've noticed, this is really interesting, whenever I feel insecure or not so great about myself or I'm like dealing with some self esteem issues or whatever it might be, I'm not feeling as confident, I tend to spend more money on clothes and things that I don't need. I see this in my spending. If I'm having a crap week where I'm just not feeling great about myself, I don't feel like I'm cute enough. I don't feel like I'm skinny enough, whatever the heck it might be, I see that in my spending. So for me, I have to really pay attention to that and just monitor my spending to make sure if I do have a bad week, I'm not actually just blowing money because I'm not feeling super great about myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and what's good about that is with things like clothing, everybody, you can return it.

Whitney Hansen:
Yes, you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you haven't taken the tags off or anything.

Whitney Hansen:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So don't wear it. So versus like going out and eating, like the gentleman you were talking about, that can be at least corrected, right?

Whitney Hansen:
Absolutely. I think that awareness is key. So when you do this exercise, you're going to get that awareness. Then you can start to say, am I okay with these charges? Or if you want to fix it, you can. I think that's the beautiful thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk more about The Money Nerds Podcast, because this is one of my go to's. I love it that it's three days a week and you do different things. So you do Mondays, you talk about just kind of what you like. Then another day you have your sort of normal format where you do interviews, and then Fridays are always these five tips that are things you can really do in your life right away.

“Whenever I feel insecure.. I tend to spend more money on clothes and things I don’t need.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

If your financial problems are weighing on you mentally, you must get help. Please find the right professional. You are not alone. We've all been there and there are many organizations out there that can work with your budget, even if that budget is zero. Many employers also offer mental health counseling that is often a free benefits.

Financial grownup tip number two:

We talk a lot about apps and online resources for your finances on this show, and yes, there are a lot of resources also for mental health online. I'm going to give you links to some articles in the show notes that list options, but here are some that stand out that are pretty popular. One is Talkspace. Another one is BetterHelp, and then 7 Cups of Tea, which is more of a peer to peer resource where someone, maybe like you, can just be someone to listen to you and hear what's going on in your life. I want to caution you guys. I have no affiliation with any of these and I have not vetted them directly myself, but they are places to start and do your own homework.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Whitney’s website - www.whitneyhansen.com/

• Whitney’s podcast - The Money Nerds

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @whitney_hansen_co

• Facebook - @WhitneyHansenCo

• Twitter - @whitneyhansenco

• YouTube - @thewhitneyhansen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The gig economy is not going away anytime soon and that means we have a big challenge because a lot of us dong’ get steady paychecks. Freelance writer and personal finance expert Zina Kumok of ConsciousCoins.com shares her success strategies and more.

5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income

• Make sure to have an Emergency Fund

• Find the minimum amount you need to earn a month

• Having extra money

• Diversification

• Increase your rates on a regular basis

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Zina’s Website - www.consciouscoins.com

Follow Zina!

• Instagram - @zinakumok

• Facebook - @consciouscoins

• Twitter - @zinakumok

• Pinterest - @zinakumok

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Journalist and author Nicole Lapin shares a hilarious story of how a lack of preparation almost led to total humiliation.  Plus why procrastination can be a good thing for financial grownups.

Nicole’s Money Story:

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. I started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc when I was 18 years old, and when I was asked if I knew anything about money news or business news, I totally lied, and I faked it till I made it. And then I had to become real, because I found that money is just a language like anything else, and I could not speak that language. So I was going to interview the founders of a tech company at the time and my boss, who was awesome, said to me as I ran out the door, and I would always carry like a big diaper bag, almost combat ready with all sorts of stuff, like a poncho just in case, from my time in actual general news, I didn't know what would happen. I was combat ready. And he was like, "Do you have the P&L?" You know, a lot of people call me NL or Lapin for short.

Nicole Lapin:
And I was like, "No dude, I'm good. I don't need to pee." And I get to the interview and the PR person was like, "Do you have the P&L?" And I'm like, okay, think, Lapin, think. She is not asking you if you need to pee, this must be a money term. I sit down with the founders, and they're like, our profits, as you can see from our P&L, you know, blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, okay, has to do with profits, think, think, think. Profits. L, losses. And I kept saying PnL, like Kibbles 'n Bits, and I didn't even know it was an and. Like, I just was so clueless, and that was a great example of how I had to think about this right on the spot and definitely was not prepared.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so what happened? How did this play out? Did you have an aha moment in the middle of the interview?

Nicole Lapin:
I had the aha moment, and I knew enough that it had to do with their balance sheet, and so I could sort of dance around it and get through the interview. Then after that I wrote down PnL, like N for Nicole, and then it took me another hot minute to realize there was an and sign. It was like profits and losses.

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, did you confess to anyone? Did you tell your boss, "I didn't know what that meant," or did you just keep going?

Nicole Lapin:
No, no, no, no, no. I just had super intense imposter syndrome, and I just thought everyone was going to figure out that I didn't know what I was talking about, and I would have never, ever admitted at the time that I couldn't speak this language. I only now can talk about this, very gladly in hindsight. I love making fun of myself with the most embarrassing money stories, but no, definitely not at the time.

“Money is an intimidating language. It’s ok if you can’t speak the language. Just ask what something means.”

Nicole’s Money Lesson:

Nicole Lapin:
I think realizing that money is an intimidating language. We just don't have a Rosetta Stone for this growing up. And it's okay if you can't speak the language. Just ask what something means. I've talked to COs of major publicly traded companies who have asked me like what does [inaudible 00:06:00] mean, for example, like right before we went on the air, and I was like, "Dude, it's just the bond buyback program." Like, no big deal. And they were like, "Yeah, I just didn't know the terminology." And so there's lots of terminology that sounds confusing. If you went to China and you didn't speak Chinese, you'd be confused. If you went to Wall Street and you didn't speak the language of money, you would be confused, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you're saying that, because so many of us kind of nod and pretend we understand something and maybe make decisions that we shouldn't make, because we don't want to admit that we don't get it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah, totally. And you're definitely not alone. I think a lot of people smile and nod and don't join basic money conversations because they're too intimidated and too scared to admit that they don't know what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And by the way, your website and your books are a tremendous resource for understanding a lot of this stuff.

“I aim for progress and not perfection. If I have more good days than bad days then I am totally winning.”

Nicole’s Money Tip:

Nicole Lapin:
I like to rethink conventional financial wisdom, conventional business wisdom. And yes, you're right. I rewrite financial dictionaries and business dictionaries. I did it in the back of Rich (beep) and Boss (beep). This is maybe why I'm single. But at the end of every chapter in every book, I rethink conventional wisdom to hopefully help you think for yourself. And procrastination is often used as a bad word. It's used as something that you should avoid, but I actually think that you can not fully procrastinate, because it's so cathartic to cross out all the things on your to-do list, like, here we go, dry cleaning, you know, pick up this, blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, those things might not move you towards your goals. So if you remind yourself of what you're working toward and what you have to do and almost connect the dots, I came up with a Super Woman journal that's a companion journal along with Becoming Super Woman to help you do that throughout the day, and I create this point system that's almost like a weight loss sort of system that allows you to give yourself points for things you're focusing on and forgive yourself first if you're not focusing on just the then and there. Because I think we can have it all. We just can't do it all, especially not at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And another thing that I love about the book is you have these really compelling quotes. For example, related to what we were just talking about, you have a quote from Mark Twain, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow," which makes a lot of sense when you really think about the reasoning behind it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. If you have to pick up your dry cleaning or something, and you need to get something done that will move you toward making your side hustle your full time hustle, I would do that and then get your dry cleaning, unless you really have like nothing, nothing to wear. I would do that later on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing in the book that I love is that you have not just a to-do list, but a have done list.

Nicole Lapin:
Yes. Because, you know, we often get into this mode of we've just not accomplished anything, and we're not doing anything compared to everybody else on Instagram. And I think comparison is the thief of joy, and also we tend to compare ourselves to the best version of each aspect of our lives. So we compare our fitness regime to a fitness blogger who works out five hours a day, or our mommy life to that of a mommy YouTuber who bakes bread for her kids and homeschools them. That's not realistic. And so if we get into that cycle and we don't have the definition of what success is to us, we often feel inadequate. We shouldn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, we should not feel inadequate. But one thing that you also work through in the book is you have specific plans for people to organize and get towards those goals in a realistic way, not in a way where you're trying to keep up with somebody, like you were just talking about.

“Comparison is the thief of joy”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

We didn't get to this in the interview, but a lot of Nicole's advice focuses on productivity and avoiding distraction and all the stress that that causes, and of course spending time when you didn't mean to on things. For example, she recommends a browser extension called unroll.me. It's free, and I am now using it. I will leave a link in the show notes. You can always find the show notes by going to bobbirebell.com and then going to the Financial Grownup podcast area. There's also a handy search box in the upper right hand corner, where you can always just type in the guest name or any keyword, but definitely check out unroll.me.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Another one from Nicole's book was to keep emails to five sentences. If it has to be longer than five sentences, then it deserves a phone call. I'm going to start trying that in my workflow. We'll see how it goes, but if you do it, too, let me know how it goes.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Nicole’s website - nicolelapin.com

• Nicole’s book Becoming Super Woman

Follow Nicole!

• Instagram - @nicolelapin

• Facebook - @NicoleLapin

• Twitter - @NicoleLapin

• YouTube - @NicoleLapin

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

6 things you need to know about HSA’s

1. Tax free contributions

2. Grows tax free

3. Qualified medical withdrawals

4. Dental vision and hearing

5. After 65 no penalty for non medial withdrawal

6. Perfect medical nest egg in retirement

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Danielle’s website - boomerbenefits.com

Follow Danielle!

• Instagram - @boomerbenefits

• Facebook - @BoomerBenefits

• Twitter - @boomerbenefits

• LinkedIn - @boomer-benefits

• Pinterest - @boomerbenefits

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Getting a huge salary jump is awesome, but even with a big jump Paychecks & Balances podcast host, Rich Jones had some lessons to learn when his compensation skyrocketed. The entrepreneur behind the Show Starter shares his experiences, and how we can all get not just the best pay but also the best jobs. 

Rich’s Money Story:

Rich Jones:
Yeah, so by day I work at Google. I've been there for over five years. I'm moved to a tech startup called ScrollMotion, and it was the shortest role in my career, I'd only been there for about nine months. I actually got an email from a recruiter at Google and I thought it was spam. Even though my ultimate goal was to move to a big tech company, I kind of had this self-doubt of, "Oh wow, they're reaching out to me. Is this really a real role? Why are they reaching out to me in New York when this position is based in California?"

Rich Jones:
I went through the interview process and it probably took about three to four months, but then ultimately I ended up getting the job. I made the transition from New York City to California. And part of what I realized throughout the process that I think is really important, one is the importance of negotiation. And I learned this more for the role that I had at the tech startup because I won't say how, but I came across how much the person in that role before me made and it was a lot more than I had actually asked for.

Rich Jones:
And part of what I did not consider is that I worked at a nonprofit. Nonprofits typically pay a little bit less and when I saw an increase, I was so focused on one, getting out of that nonprofit because I realized that role wasn't for me, that I had this fear of not wanting to mess up the opportunities. I said, "Hey, this is a pay increase, this is great." Only to get there and find out that I actually could have asked for a lot more.

Rich Jones:
And what I've learned from tech companies like Google and Facebook, they really do try to do right by people, and instead of kind of negotiating people downward, they want to make sure that they bring people in at a fair market rate because they ultimately don't want to lose these people because the cost of hiring and losing someone is so high. Part of what I learned in the process is the importance of negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about the actual moment you got the job offer. Did they say the number first or did you?

Rich Jones:
They said the number first and it far exceeded the number that I had in mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this a phone conversation? What, where, how is this happening?

Rich Jones:
It was a phone conversation. I was ready to go back and forth and I had my numbers in mind, didn't realize that I was undercutting myself in the process and they made an offer that honestly had me floored. It was a no brainer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but did you ask for more?

Rich Jones:
I did not because it far exceeded what I was even looking for and I felt completely comfortable about the offer. The lesson here is having a number in mind and I made sure that I did research when I looked at this role to make sure that I wasn't going to get undercut. When they came back with a number that was far greater than what I had in mind, I could've went back and forth with them. And there are situations where I would say, "Hey, ask for more," but it was so much greater than what I thought it was going to be. Everything else about it made sense that it made sense for me to ultimately accept the role.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you find out the data about the previous employee that they were making more and about how much more was it, like a percentage-wise? Give me some sort of scale.

Rich Jones:
Oh, it was about 20 to $25,000 more. It was one of those things where I was doing some research in the system for a project and I saw what they were actually making. And I had this Wow! Moment of, "This is not good. I could have asked for a lot more." Part of what I've learned in my current role, especially because I work in staffing or worked in staffing for a number of years, even if I probably had asked for more for the role at Google I probably wouldn't have gotten it. Because I think one of the other mistakes I made is that at the time they would ask you what you were making today, and companies sometime anchor on that. Once we tell them what you're making, they just try to do a percentage increase. One thing I probably would have done differently is not actually share that salary information and just said come back-

Bobbi Rebell:
You shared it before they gave you the offer?

Rich Jones:
I did, I did. I did. And more states now are implementing policies or laws where companies can not ask for salary information specifically for that reason. I actually encourage people, if you're talking to a company and they ask what you're making today, that you not tell them that actual number and see what they come back with. If they come back with a number that's lower or even if it's a number that's right where you want to be, try the approach of, "Hey, I'm super excited about this offer. If we can get to X number, I'll be willing to sign this offer today." And that recruiter is incentivized to go back and see what they can do to ultimately get you that number that they want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you to take action after getting this information, did you go ask for a raise?

Rich Jones:
No, I did not ask for a raise because for me, my ultimate goal was to move to a company like Google or Facebook and it happened sooner than I expected and that's why I say it caught me off guard and I'm like, "Wow, they're reaching out to me." Because to me it was, "I'll get a couple of years of experience, I'll go and apply. Not this company will find me on LinkedIn because my profile is optimized and then contact me." I'd say over the course of three years, my total compensation increased by 200 to 250%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Rich Jones:
And while at that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Now wait, let me ask you, was that prompted by you becoming a better negotiator because you now have this information or they're just a generous company and that's kind of what they gave you?

Rich Jones:
I think it was more so prompted by things like updating my LinkedIn profile so that they could find me in the first place because there is applying for jobs, but then there's also recruiters who were out there every day looking for talent, scouring LinkedIn. I was that recruiter. Part of the insight knowledge I had was how a recruiter would go about looking for somebody who has a particular set of skills.

Rich Jones:
A big part for me was updating my LinkedIn profile so that if a recruiter was looking for someone who had a combination of HR experience and recruiting experience, and they had this profession in human resource certification, my profile would pop up. While it wasn't as heavy on the negotiation side, there were things that I did to optimize my profile and optimize myself so that if people were looking for someone with my skills, I would pop up in that search and I attribute it a lot more to that.

Rich Jones:
I think part of what's helped me maximize my raises and my increase, it's not so much that I had to negotiate a higher pay, it's that I documented my value and I documented the things that I did to bring more people in, the things that I did to a higher level of impact and then that was ultimately factored into my bonus percentage, which is on a scale. And that was ultimately factored into the salary increase, which is also one scale. It's funny going from being an individual contributor to a manager and then having to go through that same process, where if an employee didn't tell me all the things they did, I had so many things going on so I could not remember everything that they did.

Rich Jones:
But there would be times where they'd say, "Hey, I did this and I did that." And I'd be like, "Oh yeah, you did do this, and you did do that. You should be an exceeds expectation, versus a meets expectations." A lot of it is on the individual to make sure that they're documenting and that they're in a position to be able to show the value that they've added. I had it for that conversation, but also if an opportunity came up outside of the company, I had those things documented, which would then become answers for interview questions or things that I could put in my LinkedIn profile to further show my value and that I'm a high performer.

“I actually encourage people, if you are talking to a company and they ask what you are making today that you not tell that number and see what they come back with.”

Rich’s Money Lesson:

Rich Jones:
There's an article that came out from Glassdoor, a couple of years ago. For someone starting at a salary of $50,000, the difference in not negotiating a $5,000 increase when they're first starting could be the difference of $600,000 over the course of their working career. What people don't think about, we talk about compound interest when it comes to your savings account or when it comes to stocks and investing, but we don't talk about the compound effect of negotiating a higher salary.

Rich Jones:
Because if you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be a lot higher. There are people, they're actually scared to negotiate because they think that the company's going to pull the offer. And I can tell you from being on the employer's side, no recruiter or no company is going to rescind offer because you asked for something. In fact, we expect you to ask for something.

“If you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be higher.”

Rich’s Money Tip:

Rich Jones:
A couple of apps that I really love today. One is Tiller. It allows you to connect your bank accounts and I'm someone that loves spreadsheets. And they have these templates and these customized spreadsheets where if you connect your accounts, it'll automatically pull in the information. You can see what you're spending on by category, if you're over or under or at budget. And there's also a feature where I get an email daily that anytime there's been a transaction, whether money coming in or money going out, I see that first thing in the morning.

Rich Jones:
And there've been times where I've said, "Wow, did I really just spend that much on food?" Or, "Wow, I forgot that I had that subscription." That's one service that I use to kind of see where my spending is going. But the other service that I really like, it's called Truebill, and initially this started out as an app that would monitor all your subscriptions and tell you where you could have a subscription canceled, where they can negotiate on your behalf to bring that subscription costs down.

Rich Jones:
And just even today before we recorded this interview, I've realized that I was getting double-billed for a particular subscription and now I'm in the process of having them resolve it for me so I don't have to deal with the process of calling in and talking to multiple people and going back and forth and sending emails. Pairing up apps, one, I have something that tells me where my money is going on a day to day basis, which keeps me sharp. And then two, I have a service that's monitoring my subscriptions, but it's also giving me a breakdown of how I'm spending for the month. And I can see that category by category and it kind of tells me if I'm doing too much, if I'm going over budget and I found both of those to be super helpful with each other.

“I can tell you from being on the employer side,  no company is going to rescind the offer because you asked for something. In fact we expect you to ask for something. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Manage up. Remember Rich, said to prepare for performance reviews, that's just part of it. This is all about communication with your supervisors. Those are the people who decide how much you get paid. Don't assume they know and in some cases even understand what you do and how valuable you have become to the company.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love what Rich said about the very first salary being an anchor to ongoing salary negotiations. He is 100% correct, but at the same time, don't assume you are worth more than they're willing to pay. With the first job, you don't always bring as much to the table as you will in future jobs. Yes, you probably went to school and studied, but let's face it, in most cases the companies are also going to put a lot of resources into training you. Just factor in what you will learn as an employee when you are in that negotiation and be thoughtful about your asks.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Rich’s website - paychecksandbalances.com/

Follow Rich!

• Instagram - @paybalances

• Facebook - @paychecksandbalances

• Twitter - @PayBalances

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

David Stein shares a sneak peak of the investing strategies from his new book, including how to differentiate between investing, speculating and gambling. He also discusses why you need to know who is on the other side of a trade, and the key factors that will make an investment profitable. 

3 Best Investing Tips

1. Know if a financial opportunity is investing, speculating or gambling

2. Know who is on the other side of the trade

3. Know what it takes to be successful

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• David’s website - moneyfortherestofus.com

• David’s book Money For The Rest Of Us

Follow David!

• Instagram - @moneyfortherestofus

• Facebook - @moneyfortherestofus

• Twitter - @jdstein

• YouTube - @MoneyFortheRestofUs

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Chad Parks, founder of Ubiquity Retirement and Savings, and the producer of the Broken Eggs documentary shares a money story of a chance encounter with a waiter who seemed indifferent to his own eventual retirement crisis, and the “aha" moment that followed. 

Chad’s Money Story:

Chad Parks:
So, when we were on the road trip making the documentary, one of our stops was in New Orleans. The way we got the stories was we literally would just stop and talk to anybody, and sometimes it'd be on-camera, sometimes it'd be off-camera. We were at dinner one night with the film crew and he's asking, "What are y'all doing here?" And we told him we're making a documentary about retirement. That got him talking about his own life, and that he's been a career waiter, and that he has not been able to save substantially, and that he thought that he just... Retirement was a foreign object to him and he just thinks that he's never going to be able to retire.

Bobbi Rebell:
About how old was he, would you say?

Chad Parks:
In his late 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Late 40s, so this is a time when it's starting to get real. You're no longer a kid who can kind of say, "Well, I maybe am paying down student debt or I just had a baby. At 40-something, you are definitely an adult.

Chad Parks:
Yeah. I think what was really also stood out a lot was that he didn't really seem too concerned about not having savings or a plan. And his attitude was that he just figured that the government or social services would be there to help him and that he'd figure it out. That was a little bit disheartening to hear because if so many people do believe that, then we're really going to be in for some serious problems in the future if everybody has got that attitude.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, he was a waiter and that is the job that is typically not one that has maybe all of the programs and the retirement plans that some other jobs have. So that could also be a factor as we move towards more of a gig economy, right?

Chad Parks:
Oh, for sure. The statistics are frightening. More than half of the U.S. working population don't have the ability to save at work. The point of the business is, they're small. They don't think they can afford a small business retirement plan and they don't do it. And so, half of us in this population don't have a vehicle to save easily and efficiently for their future.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you had this conversation with the waiter, what were your colleagues and friends at the table, what was their reaction? And was there conversation afterwards about it?

Chad Parks:
Well, it definitely proved the point of why we're on the road, right? To kind of understand what the reality of people's understanding of retirement is, what their attitudes are. And I think what we all walked away from, not only with this talking to this gentleman but for most of the people we talked to, was that there's a big awareness that there's a problem, but not many people are doing much about it nor do they know what to do about it. So we likened it to this whole thing of like, we all know we need to go to the gym and work out, but not many of us do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else did the waiter say to you?

Chad Parks:
That dependency on social services, it didn't sound like he had much of a plan. And he literally was living paycheck to paycheck. He just kind of shrugged his shoulders and it was like, "I don't know what to do about it."

Bobbi Rebell:
Did he ask you?

Chad Parks:
Well, I mean, I could preach all day about it, but...

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I'm saying, did he ask you though?

Chad Parks:
No, he did not.

Bobbi Rebell:
I say that because part of the problem is that many of us don't ask. So of course, we should get more information, but he, like many people maybe in your film, didn't ask.

Chad Parks:
This is a very good observation. Yeah, that's true. I had to stop and think about that and no, he did not ask and had he asked, I might've been able to share some good information with him.

Chad’s Money Lesson:

Chad Parks:
So, this concept of retirement is relatively new in our country. Pretty much if you think about after World War II, when the GIs were coming home and the modern corporation went back to building cars and doing what they did, there was this promise of the three-legged stool of retirement which is, you would get a pension plan from your employer, social security was going to be there for you in your older age. And then in the '70s and '80s, we introduced the additional savings vehicle of a 401k. That sounds great, right? You got a guaranteed income, you've got a safety net with social security, and you can augment your retirement savings with a 401k or IRA. Unfortunately, we know today, especially in 2019, that most businesses don't offer pensions anymore. Good example was General Electric having just frozen the pension for their 20,000 employees.

Chad Parks:
Social security was never meant to be the primary source of income in your retirement, but unfortunately for a lot of people, that is becoming the primary source. And social security itself may actually end up having some reduction in benefits in 2034, 15 years from now, by about 25% if they don't make any changes to it today. Then that puts the onus back on personal savings, and just as I shared before, half of our country doesn't have the ability to even save at work, and that's where we are.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's where we are. And what scares me here is not only, as I mentioned, that people aren't asking and being their own advocates, but our expectations of people realistic in terms of what people earn, what people can realistically save in our world, and our lifestyle expectations. If we're being honest, we have an expectation that everybody has a cellphone and everybody lives a certain lifestyle and it's partially the media, but we also have to own it ourselves. We choose to purchase things or live lifestyles that maybe are not sustainable.

Chad Parks:
No, you're so right. And that, I call it, nicknamed this the microwave society, right? Everybody wants everything instantly and want instant gratification. We are marketed to and sold to, we are rewarded with spending. Unfortunately, our attitudes are not the same about long-term savings. It's not really exciting nor fun to see your paycheck go down and to see money accumulate over a long period of time, in this idea that you're visualizing yourself in the future. And this whole concept of asking the average individual to become a savings expert and investment expert, a budgeting expert, to be able to say, this is your magic number, this is when you retire, this is how much money you're going to have, that's really putting a lot on people.

Chad Parks:
I was formerly a certified financial planner. I went to grad school for finance and it was, I said, it's a shame I had to go to grad school to learn the basics of personal finance. And so it's really, as much as we try to get people to say, listen, this is your responsibility. Don't forget that the way the world has been set up today is that it's not up to the government, it's not up to your employer. Unfortunately, it is up to you to take your future in your own hands. But at the same time, we haven't equipped you with the tools to do so. So, that's where we kind of have this big chasm as a society that we really need to figure out.

Chad’s Money Tip:

Chad Parks:
Yeah. So, as I was saying there, it's hard for people to visualize themselves in the future. None of us want to acknowledge that we're going to get old. It happens to other people. And so, one of the ways that I've found to really help people to drive that point home is to volunteer at a retirement home. These are the people who have lived their careers. These are people who've had the life lessons and the experiences that they're happy to share with you. And when you sit down and you just listen to people tell their stories, you can absolutely relate to them. You can learn, you will be emotionally moved. And hopefully, after some time doing that, you'll go home and you'll start to rethink your priorities and say, "All right, this person seemed to be okay and have it pretty good." Or "this person over here, wow. I really don't want to end up like them. So, what can I do differently today?" And then it's also just being kind and sharing some of your time with people who are in the last stages of their lives and could use a little camaraderie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

I am generally against the whole trophy for everything, but when it comes to retirement, making an effort can solve a lot of problems. Just trying. The truth is, you guys are a self-selecting audience. You are interested in money stuff. The waiter probably not listening to this or any podcast related to money that's going to actually help him do something other than quote, figure it out when the time comes. The waiter isn't even asking our guest, Mr. Parks, for solutions. He's not even looking, he's not trying. But you guys are. So pat yourself on the back and definitely an A-plus for effort, because you guys are at least interested and I bet you are in better shape than you realize.

Financial grownup tip number two:

One thing we can all learn from our waiter is that, our waiter friend in the story I should say, is that to some degree, we will all figure it out along the way. Redefine what retirement will mean for you and set your goals, but also live your present life. For example, you could see ads for older couples blissfully traveling the world, on luxury cruises or whatever, but honestly, that may not be for you. You might not suddenly wake up at a certain age and suddenly have this burning desire to go on a riverboat cruise. Maybe you will but maybe not. Your retirement bliss could be totally different and at a different price point, higher or lower.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Chad’s website - www.myubiquity.com

Follow Chad!

• Instagram - @myubiquity

• Facebook - @ubiquitysavings

• Twitter - @ubiquitysavings

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include The House Hacking Strategy: How to use your Home to Achieve Financial Freedom by Craig Curelop, Your Turn: Careers, Kids and Comebacks by Jennifer Gefsky and Stacey Delo, Retirement Reality Check: How to Spend Your Money and Still Leave an Amazing Legacy by Josh Jalinski and ZenBender: A Decade-Long Enthusiastic Quest to Fix Everything (That was Never Broken) by Stephanie Krikorian.

Book #1: The House Hacking Strategy: How to use your Home to Achieve Financial Freedom by Craig Curelop.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-The book has a ton of very specific case studies- including that of the author.

-The under the radar red flags for choosing tenants. Things you would not think about.

-How to successfully invest in areas that are NOT distressed.

Who is this book for? 

Everyone interested in actually house hacking but also those of us who are just curious how it all works. I was extremely skeptical, and honestly, some people over leverage in my opinion. But there is a real formula and method to success and Craig does a great job explaining it. This makes GREAT cocktail party chatter as they say.. I thought it was well worth the time I invested, even though I do not plan on investing in real estate using the house hacking strategy.

Book #2: Your Turn: Careers, Kids and Comebacks by Jennifer Gefsky and Stacey Delo. 

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-If we are being honest- it spoke to me, and to most of my friends. This is a book about how to keep that career going- even if you hit pause.

-While there is a positive tone, it is not the usual rah rah blah blah blah you go girl stuff. This is realistic and because of that both empowers and challenges the reader to take ownership of the fact that making it happen has to come from them

-The book doesn’t just speak to the parents wanting to make a career comeback- it also speaks to the employers who want these great resources back at work. 

Who is this book for? 

The authors have targeted working moms- so that’s clear. This is also a book that men should read- and not just dads who may face similar challenges coming back into full time work. I mean the men who worked with the women earlier in their careers and will get re-introduced to them when they return to their jobs.

Book #3: Josh Jalinksi’s Retirement Reality Check: How to Spend your Money and Still Leave an Amazing Legacy. 

What I like about this:

-Josh talks about tools that aren’t always super mainstream these days- including annuities and whole life. Not for everyone- but they are for some people and we all should have a sense of what they are so we can make the decision that is right for us.

-Josh strikes a nice balance between focusing on living the life we want, and also wanting to leave something for those who come after us. Passing wealth on to family members is something many people also care about that isn’t often addressed in books aimed at one’s own retirement. 

-Josh’s gregarious personality comes through making this tough topic a lot more pleasant to learn about

Who is this book right for:

Anyone who wants to retire comfortably, and wants a roadmap that wants a fresh perspective - including some controversial options. 

Bonus Book: Stephanie Krikorian’s Zenbender: A Decade-Long Enthusiastic Quest to Fix Everything (That was Never Broken).

What I loved about this book:

-So much of the time we think we are the only ones experiencing but in fact many others like Stephanie are having similar life experiences- from insecurity, to weight and career battles, to questions about where you are in life, relationships and of course, adulting. 

-This book may be non fiction but it is a page turner as if it were the fiction book you just need to tell someone about asap so they can be in on it too. 

-Stephanie has amazing money tips and life insights- from just using one pump of shampoo to save money- to the admission that yes, in her words “I’m built to spa”. Stephanie knows who she is, and she will help you figure out- or admit- you you are too! 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Craig Curelop’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The House Hacking Strategy: How to use your Home to Achieve Financial Freedom

Jennifer Gefsky and Stacey Delo’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Your Turn: Careers, Kids and Comebacks

Josh Jalinksi’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Retirement Reality Check: How to Spend your Money and Still Leave an Amazing Legacy

Stephanie Krikorian’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Zenbender: A Decade-Long Enthusiastic Quest to Fix Everything (That was Never Broken)

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

Episode Links

• Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast

• Check your credit score!

Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• YouTube - Popcorn Finance 

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Investing can be intimidating, but there are some simple basic steps that can put anyone on the path to success. NextGen Wealth founder Clint Haynes CFP® walks us through 8 steps to get started investing, including how to decide how long to own a stock, if and when you should pay fees, which stocks make sense with your goals, and how to understand the role emotions can play in our investment decisions. 

8 Steps to Becoming a Great DIY Investor

• Understand How to Invest for the Timeframe for Each Goal

• Understand the Role Your Emotions Play in Investing

• Your Investments Will Lose Money on Average Every 3-5 Years

• Each Goal Should Have Its Own Specific Portfolio/Bucket

• Rebalance Your Portfolio(s) at Least Annually

• Choose Investments with Low Fees and Expenses

• Don’t Reinvent the Wheel When Creating Your Own Portfolio(s)

• Monitor Your Investments Quarterly to Annually

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Clint’s website - www.nextgen-wealth.com

• Clint’s course - The Financial Freedom Blueprint Course

  • Special discount to Financial Grownup listeners of $300!! Discount will only last for the next 48 hours.

Follow Clint!

• Instagram - @clint_nextgen_wealth

• Facebook - @NextGenWealth

• Twitter - @Clint_NextGen

• Pinterest - @nextgenwealth

• LinkedIn - @nextgen-wealth

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After witnessing a friend make over $100,000 trading stocks, Dr. Brad Klontz went all in.. just in time for the tech bubble to bust. He lost the cash, but learned a lot of lessons about the market, and his own mental wealth. Plus: the quiz you can take to find out if you have a money disorder, and what to do about it. 

Brad’s Money Story:

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I didn't start out to be a financial psychologist. I actually started out to be a clinical psychologist, so to get through school I had to take out student loans and I'm sure some other people can relate to this situation. When I got out of school, I owed $100,000 in debt; student loan debt.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I grew up lower middle class. My mom says we were middle-class but lower and taught to be a healthy saver, not to overspend. I was also taught never have any debt, however, that was the only way I could get through school. So I, just to sort of set the stage, I had a lot of anxiety about having this debt. It was something that I wasn't comfortable with.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much debt did you have?

Dr Brad Klontz:
About a hundred thousand dollars?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a lot.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Yeah, it was a lot, especially back then, but that's what I had to do to get my doctorate.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I started my internship year. I was over in Hawaii and I saw a friend of mine make $100,000 that year, trading stocks. I would sit next to him at the computer and he'd be like, "Oh, I just bought 200 shares of EMC." I'm like, "What's EMC?" He's like, "I have no clue. Ha, ha, ha." Click. I saw him make $100,000 in the course of a year. I thought, what a brilliant way for me to get out of debt. So I'll just do the same thing.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I sold what I had of value, which for me mainly was a truck and I put it all in the stock market.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much?

Dr Brad Klontz:
For me it was about like 10 or $15,000. I mean, I cobbled together everything I had and I had nothing beyond that and I put it all in the stock market. So this was everything I owned.

Bobbi Rebell:
Based on this one observation?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Well, I observed this over the course of about a year. So I watched this person make $100,000 trading stocks. So that's where I, where I came up with this idea. So I studied it for six months. I didn't just dive right in, Bobbi, but then I did. I dove right in and I had a fabulous two or three months and then the tech bubble crashed and I sat there and I watched all this money melt away. It was just a terrifying, terrible. I felt so ashamed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe I would do something so radically stupid with my money and I turned to the field of psychology. I did what grad students are very familiar with; I did a literature review, so I was going to dive into psychology and find these studies that have been done to help explain why a reasonably intelligent person would do something so stupid with his money.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I started to do the searches and I found nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Yeah. Really the field of psychology at utterly ignore the topic of money for decades. So I was kind of bummed by that. What I wanted to do was read a few studies, get my head straight, and move forward with my life as a clinical psychologist.

Dr Brad Klontz:
What I discovered is there was nothing there and so I decided to actually have to dig it around in my own financial psychology and what I found is that it was all my mother's fault.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Dr Brad Klontz:
That's sort of a psychology joke.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, your father, you're now in business with your father.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Exactly. But psychologists like to pick on mothers for some reason, typically because they're the ones who are most involved in there. But what I did is I actually, I did, I was like, okay, so I've learned, everything I've learned pretty much from my parents. So what I did is I hopped on a plane and I went back home and I sat down with my mother and then I did this with my father too, and I interviewed them, almost like an anthropologist would.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I'm like, okay, so I have this money psychology, I have no idea really what it is. I have a lot of anxiety around money, but where did it come from? So I sat down with my parents and by the way, as a grad student, I'd put them through this before and so it wasn't unfamiliar. So I was asking my mother, what was it like for you growing up? What was it like for grandma and grandpa around money? I got to tell you, Bobbi, I was shocked by some of the stories I heard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like what?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Well, the one that was the most shocking for me was that my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, he lost all of his money and the family's money in the Great Depression. So he went to the bank one day and the doors shut. You have no more money. This was a traumatic experience and a lot of the research that we've done since then, there are a lot of these traumatic experiences around money that people have experienced in families or entire cultures or groups of people, and the story gets passed down in the anxiety gets passed down.

Dr Brad Klontz:
That's what happened to him and he's not alone. That happened to a lot of people, but what I didn't know is he lived to be in his mid-nineties he never put a dollar in the bank the rest of his life. That was such a traumatic experience for him.

Dr Brad Klontz:
He's like, you can't trust banks with your money; never put money in the bank again. He put it in a lockbox in his attic and of course it wasn't going so well for him financially and when he passed away, he was living in a trailer park. Super great guy, very generous guy, but was so traumatized by what happened around money, never even entered the door of possibly getting some interest or investing.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Now, my mother had tons of anxiety around money. I knew that. She didn't invest in the stock market, but she would put money in the bank and CDs. What I realized was there's this entire family story that I hadn't even heard of, but I'm playing out the next chapter and of course growing up in that family, I'm like, I don't want to be poor like you guys, so I'm going to do the opposite of what you did.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I, I call it like a dysfunctional pendulum swing. I went from extremely anxious and conservative to the most risky possible investment and I got burned really badly and if I wasn't a psychologist, I wonder if I wouldn't have sort of blamed the market. This is actually what we're seeing happen now with a lot of millennials where they saw their parents go through a trauma; losing a house, delaying retirement, that kind of thing and there's a general mistrust of the markets and financial institutions within that generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that's why a lot of millennials, and we're totally stereotyping here, guys are less into buying houses as a generation and less into credit cards, more into debit cards and more in to experiences than owning stuff because stuff you can kind of lose and experience is with you forever.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I think so, and again it is a generalization, but I think that there are surveys that have really borne this out like this. This is a real thing. Like they experienced a cultural phenomenon that has impacted how they look at money, how they look at investing, how they look at risk, and so absolutely. Just like that Great Depression generation had a cultural experience that led to a bunch of hoarding, frankly. A lot of people know relatives who lived through that, who are a bit of hoarders. They're saving stuff. They don't want to get rid of it. They have anxiety about not having enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you pull the money out when the market crashed in the tech bubble or did you ride it out?

Dr Brad Klontz:
You know what, I did a combination. I think I actually still own a couple legacy stocks from then that I just hold on to just as a reminder that that we're all vulnerable. We're all potentially vulnerable to emotional decisions around money. I took it in the chin. A lot of these were stocks that just basically went belly up because things were ridiculously crazy back then.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh okay. So it wasn't even an option to ride them out because a lot of good companies went down and then eventually came back.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Absolutely. But I was on the, I was going after the riskiest stocks possible within that tech sector because that's what I had seen my friend do and make $100,000.

“We are vulnerable to emotional decisions around money.”

Brad’s Money Lesson:

Dr Brad Klontz:
So the lesson is this, that the craziest behaviors you have around money, the things that you must struggle with, you're not crazy. They make perfect total sense.

Dr Brad Klontz:
If you understand the story that your family experienced around money and the beliefs that you got based on that story, either your direct experience or the experience that was passed down to you, and the research that we do, we call them money scripts. These are those typically subconscious beliefs you have about money and we've done a dozen studies on this now. These beliefs will predict income, net worth, a whole host of financial behaviors including credit card debt, et cetera.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So these beliefs are extremely powerful and most of us have no idea they're clanking around in our head. So yeah, that's the message I would give.

“I was going after the riskiest stocks possible within that tech sector because that is what I had seen my friend do and make $100,000.”

Brad’s Money Tip:

Dr Brad Klontz:
Absolutely. So it's understanding those money scripts and there's a couple of different ways to do it.

Dr Brad Klontz:
On Yourmentalwealthadvisors.com I've got the test that we've used in all those studies. That's a quick, simple way to look at them, or another way is to actually sit back with a paper and pencil and ask yourself, what three things did my mother teach me about money? What three things did my father teach me about money? If you have the benefit of them being still alive, go interview them, ask them stories. What was it like for them growing up? What was it like for your grandparents? Because again, these messages get trickled down. We have no idea where they came from, but they totally drive all our financial behaviors.

“We saw a 73 percent increase in savings when people got really excited about what they were saving for.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

After you take Doctor Brad's Money Disorders Test, which as you heard called me out as being a workaholic and sometimes to a not healthy level, actually do something about it. In my case, Doctor Brad got me started with some ideas by pointing me to a recent video he did on YouTube for workaholics. Among the tips, taking the Rocking Chair Test where you reflect on your life and you think about where you wish you had spent more of your time. We will leave a link to that video in the show notes.

Financial grownup tip number two:

One of the things that Doctor Brad does is that he has a money mantra. For him, it goes something like this. I worked very hard today. I'm really happy with what I did. Now my wife, my children and my health are actually more important to me, so I'm going to stop working right now and I'm going to leave. So maybe we should all make money mantras. Something I've thought about before, still haven't done, something to think about.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Brad’s website - www.yourmentalwealth.com

• Paul Ollinger’s Financial Grownup Episode

• The workaholic video I mentioned

• Money Disorder Assessment

Follow Brad!

• Instagram - @DrBradKlontz

• Facebook - @DrBradKlontz

• Twitter - @DrBradKlontz

• LinkedIn - @DrBradKlontz

• YouTube - @DrBradKlontz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After buying 39 properties in one year, real estate investor, blogger and podcaster Chad “Coach” Carson had second thoughts about his fast paced business, and totally reworked his business, to reflect his values. 

Chad’s Money Story:

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so you can imagine sprinting up a mountain is probably not a good idea for anybody. Sprinting up's a little dangerous. But my story is I graduated from college about 18 years ago almost now. Amazing. But I graduated from college, I thought I would go into one career as a, I was biology major, pre-med. I thought that's what I would do. I took a break just to be an entrepreneur, and I started flipping houses, like finding properties to buy and got into the real estate investing thing, and I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Back it up a little. How does that just happen?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so I just read some books on a shelf. My father was in rental properties, had rental properties, and so he happened to have some real estate books on his shelf. I'm at home post-college saying, "What am I going to do with my life?" I said, "I think I'm going to do this instead for a couple of years instead of going to medical school," which was a little crazy at the time because that was the normal path I probably should take in society. But I decided to be an entrepreneur. I lived at home for a year. My second year in business, I lived in my business partner's spare bedroom for free, so I was just basically bootstrapping it as long as-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait.

Chad Carson:
... I could.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, was your father helping you? Who was your business partner? How did you get to that point?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so my parents definitely helped me the first year because I lived at home.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they wanting you to go to medical school, or were they happy for you to kind of-

Chad Carson:
They were happy for me to do this as well, so I had support from them. My father was an entrepreneur. My mother was a dentist, so she's in the medical field, but they, they were happy with it. They were encouraging me, so I was very fortunate in that respect. But after a year, I was on my own, and so this has saved up some money, moved to a different state. That's when I met a, it was a friend of mine from college and we just went into business together. Neither one of us have business experience with real estate. Neither one of us had a lot of money, so it wasn't the smartest type of start as a real estate venture, but we were scrappy. We liked the hustle, and we were ready to sprint, which I guess is kind of part of the part of the story.

Chad Carson:
We went to a class, and we watched a... the person who's teaching that class had some really exciting, kind of inspiring goals where they were buying and selling a lot of properties. We just sort of gravitated to that and said, "Hey, that sounds good. That's a good goal to have. Why don't we go buy and sell a lot of properties?" They were buying and selling like 50 properties per year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, wait. Let me just stop you there because there's a fine line between the people that are the real deal that will legitimately teach you, and then there's a lot of people out there that make a lot of promises to people. These real estate conferences or presentations and they say, "We're going to help you do that," are notorious for not always being on the-

Chad Carson:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... up and up. How did you-

Chad Carson:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... know that yours was a good one, and what can people watch for if they go to these seminars to know if they're at a good one or not?

Chad Carson:
You hit the nail on the head that a lot of those are a little bit more rah-rah than they are the practical nuts and bolts of "here's how you do it." We took the rah-rah. I was 23 years old and just said, "Oh, we can do this. Let's go do it." As naive as that sounds, that's what I did. I would say, to go back to your question though, yeah, I always found that I got good information from a lot of things, but I would avoid paying, like there's, there's some where you, they're almost like pyramid schemes where you get in for free for one day. Then you have to pay 300 bucks to go for the weekend, and then you have to pay 10,000 bucks for our consulting and our course that lasts for six months. When they started getting in the pyramid scheme thing, you've lost me there. When you're brand new and you don't have much money and they're asking you to put money on credit cards and get a lot of credit card debt in order to learn about real estate investing, that's a problem. That-

Bobbi Rebell:
So look for red flags. What are the green flags?

Chad Carson:
The green flags are people who are doing it, who are still investing, and who are out there buying properties, who own rental properties. For me, the green flag is that they're not pushing you to do financially stupid things in order to buy their thing. If you're having to go into a lot of debt with credit cards to buy some person's program, yeah, that's a problem. You could spend that same amount of money going and buying an investment, and so that's an issue. We did spend some money on education. We did go to some classes obviously, but to our, I guess to our benefit, we went out and applied a lot of it. We started buying and selling a lot of houses and-

Bobbi Rebell:
How did get the capital to start? This is from saving from living at home for the one year?

Chad Carson:
No. We partnered with other people. I'm just getting out of college, and so I met a professor from Clemson University where I went to school, go Tigers, and this professor just mentioned that he invested in real estate. I just sort of stuck to him like glue after class and said, "Hey, could I follow you around or jump in your car and go look at your houses, just sort of... " probably annoying a little bit. But he recognized some sincerity there, and so I just started asking questions and learning from him and eventually said, "I'm out looking for properties. If I found a really good deal, is there some way you could put up the money, and we could both make a profit on this?"

Chad Carson:
He said yes. He started putting up some of the money. He's actually, to this day, 18 years later, the form of getting the money has changed, but that he's still been a private lender for our business almost 18 years later. We help fund his retirement. We pay him interest every month that allows him to do whatever he wants to do and travel with his family, and we have rental properties that allow us to pay him interest, and we make money as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so you started out with a very ambitious plan with a partner, with an investor. What happens next?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, we got overheated. We bought... We got too big too fast. I guess the big issue was, or the sprint up the real estate mountain was that we went to classes, and other people were saying that bigger was better and buying a lot of properties is good, but we never really thought about like, why would we do that? What's the result of this in our lives that makes it good to get bigger and do it faster?

Chad Carson:
In 2007, so kind of history lesson that, recent history that people probably remember, 2007, 2008 a great recession, economy collapses, lots of real estate is kind of the core problem with that. We bought 30, we had 39 closings where we bought properties in 2007.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. I can't even imagine keeping track of all that.

Chad Carson:
Yeah, we got systematized. We were very organized. I'm organized. I've built business systems, and most of those are really good deals actually. We flipped some properties that made 50, 60,000 bucks on flipping a house, fixing it up and flipping it, so we did well. We had money in the bank. But we also bought some properties that were rental properties that we would keep for a longer period of times, and we made mistakes on a handful of them. Not all of them. We've made mistakes where we bought in wrong locations. We underestimated some of the remodel costs. What should have been a $15,000 budget was really a $30,000 budget for our remodel.

Chad Carson:
The long and short of it is, is that we got to the end of 2007, and I'll give credit to my business partner more than me, we were like, "We gotta slow this train down. We're going sprinting up this real estate mountain, but we're not really sure why we're going so fast and doing all this," and so we stepped back and thought about it and sort of reoriented our business and our goals. We each made a list of saying, "What are the things that are important to you in your life that this business and that the money this business is generating can support?" like what is it? It was really eye-opening because, on my list, I wrote down things like play pick-up basketball for two hours in the middle of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chad Carson:
You know how much money does that cost?

Bobbi Rebell:
Zero.

Chad Carson:
Zero. I had a pick-up basketball game-

Bobbi Rebell:
But it cost your time, Chad.

Chad Carson:
It cost-

Bobbi Rebell:
It cost your time.

Chad Carson:
Exactly, and so that was the big aha moment was that money is important. Money is one currency. It's not the only currency. I got that idea from the exact same time I read The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss, which, so that idea itself of that you have multiple currencies in your life, money's a really important one, but a lot of the time, we sell all of our other currencies like our time and our flexibility, and we sell those for the highest bidder. We get to make the most money, and that's not the way it always needs to work, that you... especially as an entrepreneur and for all of us, if we're investing our own money on the side, we can decide how we orient and prioritize our life to some extent. That's what we tried to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened with the business? You took it down a notch. What happened with these properties? 2007 was not a good year. 2008 I should say.

Chad Carson:
2008 was worse than 2007. We didn't buy that many properties after that. That's the long and short. We had some money saved in the bank, thankfully. We were very frugal. We didn't spend much of the money that we made, so that was a smart move. But we had to use a lot of that money because we had a lot of negative cashflow on certain properties where the tenant moved out and we had an extra 10 or 15,000 repairs that we didn't think we had, and so it was sort of a game of just pivoting, changing, learning how to be really good rental landlords, learning how to handle your cash flow and financing.

Chad Carson:
We did okay though. We didn't make any money for a year or two, but we didn't lose a bunch of money either. We got through that and sold some properties. We refinanced some properties, and we bought some new properties because it was one of the best times, and probably all of our lifetimes is 2009, 2010, 2011 to buy real estate because we had good relationships with people like my professor and other people we borrowed money from. We were actually able to buy some of the best deals we ever had in the years following that once we recovered and kind of got out of there.

“A lot of the time we sell our time and our flexibility for the highest bidder. We get to make the most money. And that is not the way it always needs to work”

Chad’s Money Lesson:

Chad Carson:
I think the lesson, no matter whether you're in business or not, whether you invest in real estate or not, is to be more deliberate with your money goals. For us, that was a really big aha that, money's important, but it's not the only thing in the equation. We probably all know this intuitive, that money's not everything, there's other things more important in life, but I don't know how often, at least I didn't, actually put that into effect and prioritize that with your money, with your investing, with your business, actually like put those other things in your life.

Chad Carson:
We really did that. Actually, my wife and I took a four-month mini retirement kind of trip in 2009 where we said, "I'm not going to make any money for the next four months. In fact, we're going to save money for a while and just take off and travel." Travel was important to us, and we had to prioritize that and balance that in into our lives. I think just everybody's got different flexibility and abilities to be able to do that, but we can start prioritizing and balancing those.

“Be more deliberate with your money goals. Money is important but it is not the only thing in the equation. ”

Chad’s Money Tip:

Chad Carson:
Yeah. My tip is that you and I, like we are, the people who are listening to this, we are our number one asset. We think about sometimes investing our money and our time into investments and money, in businesses, but what about improving ourselves? My tip is, one thing I like to do is I actually prioritize and budget a little bit of time every day, usually in the morning for me when I actually read a book or listen to a podcast like this or watch a YouTube video specifically trying to improve a skill or something that I really want to learn, so you can have pleasure reading and enjoying reading, which is great too, but actually trying to get better at something.

Chad Carson:
For me for the last six months, I've been trying to get better at YouTube and creating YouTube videos. I'm like a broken record. My wife's like, "Are you watching another how to do YouTube video chat?" I'm like, "Yep, that's what I'm doing right now." For 20 minutes a day, I'm budgeting that time, I'm getting better at it. You'd be amazed how good you can get at anything if you budget some time, budget some money, maybe to go to a class, go to a conference. If you want to get good at being on YouTube and making YouTube videos, within six months, you can get really good at it if you prioritize and focus your time on it. That's my tip is to budget your money and time to improve yourself, to improve your own skills, and that actually leads to not only money, but also other skills, other happiness skills, other things that you want to do in your life.

“We are our #1 asset. Prioritize and budget a little bit of time every day.. specifically trying to improve a skill or something that I really want to learn. Try to get better at something. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Chad talks about taking time to educate yourself maybe 20 minutes a day. I couldn't agree more, but I want to add that one way to accomplish this is to add an accountability element by telling someone and maybe making it mutual. Check in on each other. I know that when I was studying for the CFP, Certified Financial Planner, exam, I was being checked on by some friends who had recently passed the exam, and that really helped. If you were taking an online class, maybe get a friend to take it as well so you guys can keep up with each other and stay on track.

Financial grownup tip number two:

One of the best things that Chad was able to do was to buy property when prices were cheap but at time when a lot of other people just didn't have the resources because he did. He had cash on the side ready to go when there were opportunities. He wasn't over leveraged, and that can be applied to all parts of our lives. Having available resources for when others aren't so flush can be a huge advantage.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Chad’s website - www.coachcarson.com

• Chad’s podcast - Coach Carson Podcast

• Your Money or Your Life

• The 4-hour Workweek

Follow Chad!

• Instagram - @coachcarson1

• Facebook - @coachchadcarson

• Twitter - @CoachChadCarson

• LinkedIn - @coachcarson

• Pinterest - @chadcarson1

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ghost writer Stephanie Krikorian trusted a financial planner with her investments after a big layoff a decade ago. But years later discovered blind trust was costing her, and learned to read the paperwork, and take grownup ownership of her money strategy.  

Stephanie's money story:

Steph Krikorian:
So, basically, I get laid off and I did two quick things. I refinanced while I still had a paycheck coming in, because rates were down and they hadn't been for awhile. I thought that was a smart thing to do. Secondly, I went to this financial planner and merged several 401ks, because I had been at several jobs and never really paid much attention to it. I always put in the max that I could, et cetera. But I thought, "This will help me move it, and then I can focus on finding a job or starting a business, whichever I'm going to do."

Steph Krikorian:
I remember meeting with this financial planner and asking a very specific question, "How are you paid?" My understanding when I left that meeting, and I interview people for a living, so I feel fairly confident I was given a certain answer and didn't make that mistake, but maybe I did, my understanding was the payment for the financial planner was based on money I made, so that if I made 10%, the financial planner was paid a percentage of that. So, I do all these things, and I am on my own little austerity program. I'm doing a single pump of shampoo. You can read about all the crazy things I did to not waste money while I was trying to, you know, make sure I didn't overspend. ,I was trying to stay on my budget. I invested. I knew I had to save. Even when there was no money coming in, even though I cut everything else out, I scraped together a certain amount of money.

Steph Krikorian:
So, in the meantime, I start going on the Zen Bender, because I start reading self-help books. I've reinvented myself. I start reading self-help books. I start getting obsessed-

Bobbi Rebell:
This is all because you're ghostwriting a lot of them too, so you're really immersing yourself in your material.

Steph Krikorian:
That's how it started. I really was immersing myself in the material, because everybody has a book idea, and then they say, "Oh, it's like the Suze Orman of such and such or the Marie Kondo of such and such." So, I was reading for research, but as I read, I also got a little obsessed, because I said, "Oh my God. There's all these fixes out there. I must have all these holes in my life to fill. I'm single. I'm thick around the middle, because everyone wants to lose a few pounds. I'm trying to figure out my career." So, I started grasping at all these things a little more than necessary, as per the research.

Steph Krikorian:
So, I take my eye off the ball of what I think I had set up with the financial planner, and I spend hoards of money on Reiki, and rainbow healers, and dating coaches. You know, I could've basically probably gone to law school instead and done something productive. But all of this time I think, "You know, I've made my budget. I'm following the rules. I'm being careful." But somewhere in all that mishmash, kind of the point of the Zen Bender was I lost a little bit of confidence. I stopped trusting my gut and I kind of took my eye off the ball of the important things and ceded a lot of power to these ... you know, this dating coach who's telling me, "You've got to wear high heels and have shiny hair in order to find a husband, because he'll think you're fertile, and he'll want to marry you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And probably very expensive heels too.

Steph Krikorian:
[inaudible 00:06:24] I got $200 a pop, but if you do five, then of course X,Y,Z is going to happen. The doors will open up. I had started treating my business like a business. Even though it's writing, I formed an LLC. I have a lawyer. I outsource things like copy editing, because I wanted to only do the work that was mission-critical. So, I was making enough money. It wasn't like I was on my credit card doing this stuff. You know? There were lean years the first couple of years. Then I started getting on my feet and I started making enough money.

Steph Krikorian:
Somewhere in there I have a call from my financial planner. Also, in fairness, if I step back and look at it, she gave me a couple of pieces of advice which were, "Sell all your stock from your first job," which was General Electric stock, which at the time was not a good suggestion, and, "Dump this apartment, even at a loss." I disregarded both pieces of advice. I was not going to dump that apartment at a loss. I was going to make my payments, and I was going to save it, that investment. So, I didn't take that warning sign, you know? That should have made me a little nervous, and it didn't, because I knew better. I'd worked in financial news, like you, and I knew that wasn't right. Every year I'm putting together the maximum I can scrape in and put in, but nothing's really moving in the fund. I'm in one of those funds as you age, you know, with the term and the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
The target date fund, which sometimes have double fees. Sometimes those can be very expensive.

Steph Krikorian:
Right. It didn't seem to be doing a lot, and I thought, "Oh, it must just be the time, you know. Whatever." So, we have this call and she suggests, since I've reached a certain milestone, she explains there's this, you know, almost like a fund of funds with these various ETFs in the same thing. It sort of ages as you go and it's really something to consider. I said, "Okay. Great. I guess so. Sure." She said, "And the fee is so much less. It's almost half,| or whatever. I say, "Oh, what's the fee been generally, because it shouldn't ... you know, we haven't made a lot of money, so it couldn't possibly be very high." She tells me the percentage, and I do the math, and I get furious.

Steph Krikorian:
I'm like, "Wait a minute. You're charging more out of my fund than I'm depositing every year. You should have seen that." You know, she said, "Well, I don't keep track of who's putting in more or who's not." I'm like, "That's your single job. That's like your only job, to be ... Maybe you should've stopped and said, 'Hey. I don't think you need to be in here. Just go to Fidelity and buy a fund.'" I was mad at her, but honestly I was more mad at myself, because the one thing I probably should have spent the time on was understanding what was going on there. But I got so lost in the haze of all the chaos and life change that was happening, that I trusted the professional to handle it, and I don't think ... She didn't do anything negligent or anything like that. She did what she told me she would do. It's just I didn't double check. I think you have to stay on top of these things, because the single most important thing is your money, period. It really is.

“Nobody reads the fine print. So you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check in and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. ”

Stephanie’s money lesson:

Steph Krikorian:
Double check, double check, double check, and then quarterly, when you have those check-ins, check, and maybe you're smarter than the experts. Maybe if you're in a single fund, investigate the other ways to invest in that single fund, so that you don't pay the load that you're paying a financial planner,` who has much wealthier clients to make money off of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was she a fiduciary? Do you know? Was she a CFP? Was she a fiduciary?

Steph Krikorian:
Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Steph Krikorian:
Yeah. It was a big firm and all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She did her job.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she informed you. You just didn't hear I guess is what you're saying.

Steph Krikorian:
I misunderstood at the beginning and I was an early client.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a financial journalist.

Steph Krikorian:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness, Stephanie. What hope is there for everybody else?

Steph Krikorian:
I know, and I wonder. I was an early client of hers, and she was just starting out. I liked her, because she was woman and she was new, and people were giving me a chance, and I gave her a chance. I still don't regret that, but I think, you know, these things aren't transparent. You can't tell how much you pay. In fairness to anybody, it's hard to tell what percentage you're paying in these things. So, I think you have to ask those questions regularly, because things also change, and nobody reads the fine print. So, you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check-in, and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. I check my bank account to see ... You know, my bank account got hacked. If I didn't check as frequently as I did, I would never have known. So, you-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Steph Krikorian:
It did. Yeah. They had my name. They had my bank account. Must've been off a piece of paper or a bill. They were trying to get in there. They didn't get anything. But, so, you have to always check. Nothing to do with your money should ever be on autopilot, even paying your bills. You know, you can miss a bill, because autopilot is not the way to go, and that's for your financial planning and your daily accounts. You got to keep a tally.

“Walking solves all my problems… It helps creatively, it helps anxiety.. and saves some money. ”

Stephanie's everyday money tip:

Steph Krikorian:
So, you can get really caught up into these things. The average price for any of these sessions is $200. It's very easy to get-

Bobbi Rebell:
For what? I'm sorry. $200 for what?

Steph Krikorian:
Like Reiki, the astrologist, acupuncture. $200 seems to be the going rate of 2019, and buying five packs is very easy to get caught up. I would say this. Try anything, because there's a placebo effect or you find it inspiring. Try anything once. Don't buy the five packs. Just try it and see, and then step away and think of it. Don't get caught up in it. But more importantly, what I found, after all of the sessions, and all of the coaches, and thousands of dollars on a dating coach, I'm still single.

Steph Krikorian:
All the diets I tried and paid for and I think of how much per pound I've spent trying to lose the same 5, 10 pounds. Go for a walk, and then go for another walk, and then walk for more, longer, longer, longer. Walking solves all my problems, and it took me ... I knew that at the beginning, and then I didn't figure it out until the end, but it helps creatively. It helps anxiety. It does the same trick as some of this other stuff does, and it helps you work out, and it's good for your health, and so do that. That's my suggestion. Save some money. Do everything that you want to do, but just once in a while. Don't go on a Zen Bender, like I did, and hit it all hard, all at once, all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing advice, and it's so true about walking. I get all my best ideas when I'm walking. It's also a great way to socialize, instead of going somewhere and spending money on food that will cost you money and weight.

Steph Krikorian:
What was the scariest thing to write? Oh, a lot of it was scary. It set out to be a book on humor, you know, a humor book on all these crazy things I tried, and then as I wrote it, I'm like thinking, "Well, why did I do that?" I think a couple of things, quickly, how much weight has held me back in life. You know, we all wish we were a little thinner I think. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Me.

Steph Krikorian:
I think-

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm raising my hand.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly. And we all wish that we could drop a few pounds, and I spent a little bit too much time obsessing about that. That was sort of disappointing, and I was surprised I was able to put that on the page, because I really don't like to talk about it. I think being single, you know, I kind of likened the dating at ... I'm 50 now, but this whole book took place in my 40s. It's like shopping at Marshall's or T.J.Maxx. Everything is picked over. It's like seconds right now. So, that was a lot for me to talk about. You know, I had a hard time with that.

Steph Krikorian:
The realization I came to through writing and through discussing it is that after doing the Marie Kondo, I Marie Kondo'd, the living crap out of my house, including my freezer, did the doors open up? I don't know, but I learned to say no to things that didn't bring me joy. I don't think that was her intent in the book. I think that was, as interesting as ... It wasn't a hard to write about that, but it was an interesting learning experience for me that that takeaway kind of came through the process of trying to be funny about folding my socks, rolling my socks a certain way, that all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have a hard time saying no to things. Now, I'm a little better at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all working on that. I think that's a big theme these days is sometimes it's okay to just decline an invitation, even if you don't have a conflict. Just say, "I'm sorry. I can't make it," and don't elaborate.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly.

“After doing the Marie Kondo..  I learned to say no to things that didn’t bring me joy.. that takeaway kind of came through the process of rolling my socks a certain way that I realized I have a hard time saying no to things.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one.:

Buy what you want if you want to be trying things. That's always all good. But when Stephanie talks about buying the five packs, that applies to pretty much any upsell that you get in life. Yes. You do get a better price per item, but you also get more items than you want or need.

Financial grownup tip number two:

If you aren't sure that you understand how someone controlling your money gets paid, keep asking until you are beyond 100% sure. Stephanie is educated and smart and was literally writing about money for her job, but she made assumptions that were not correct.

As a financial grownup, I love that she takes ownership that maybe she didn't understand what she thought she did. It can happen to any of us, if it can happen to Stephanie. Read, and reread, and then, as Stephanie recommends, go do regular check-ins, as she now does, and of course be careful with automation. It is a great tool for regular bills and such, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be checking as well. How are you doing on this front? Do you understand how people or companies that hold your money ore paid? Is free really free if there are maybe commissions or fees in there that you may not know about. Maybe they're disclosed in very tiny print, because if something is truly free, well, then how is the company making money? You need to ask what is going on on the other side.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Stephanie’s website http://stephaniekrikorian.com/

• Stephanie’s book ZenBender

Follow Stephanie!

• Instagram - @stephiekrik

• Facebook - @skrikorian

• Twitter - @stephiekrik

• LinkedIn - @stephaniekrikorian

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

YouTube superstar Sarah Wilson documented and inspired others with her journey to being debt free. But after she got to do the debt free scream with Dave Ramsey, she had a whole new set of challenges. Plus Sarah saves Bobbi from buying things she can get for free at the Fincon conference. 

Sarah's money story:

sarah wilson:
five years ago I was working in a newspaper for about $26,000 a year. I had deferred my student loans from college, and there were $33,000 of them. I lost my job. Suddenly I was extremely scared and I swore to myself that whenever I got a new job, I would figure this money thing out. Because being unemployed would've been so much less stressful had I not had $33,000 worth of student debt looming.

sarah wilson:
So, I got a new job making $26,000 a year at a newspaper, in a new state, and I started budgeting. I did everything possible to lower my expenses, increase my income, side hustling. And over the next three years, I actually documented it on YouTube. Every single week, I'd go on and tell people how much debt I had left and what I was doing that week to help fix it. It took me three years and a couple of different jobs where I raised my income a little each time, but I paid off all my debt.

bobbi rebell:
We're so proud of you for that. And also, what you're leaving out with your modesty is that while you were doing this, there was something about you. You have a relatability and an it factor that you also developed a huge following of fans and supporters while doing this. How many YouTube subscribers do you have right now?

sarah wilson:
A little over 56,000.

bobbi rebell:
Wow. And you also have monetized that. So, you actually have this side business of this YouTube channel, which is really inspiring and helping so many people. Then you hit a big milestone a year ago and that changed everything. We're going to start your story, your money story that you're going to share, with a big scream.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I actually went on the Dave Ramsey show because I was a huge fan of his and I was following his steps to get out of debt. I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.

bobbi rebell:
It's a big milestone and it brings us to what we want to talk about, which is what happens when you reach your money goal. Because your money goal was to be debt free. That scream was so symbolic. Then what?

sarah wilson:
The first thing I decided was to save up a giant chunk of money. Once again, ala Dave Ramsey. I saved six months worth of living expenses in case I ever lost my job again. I would be okay for a while. Or if I suddenly got into a car accident, or a medical thing, it just gives so much peace to know that I have 10 grand sitting in a interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.

sarah wilson:
And then I also started investing, which is super fun and kind of intimidating for someone who was never taught about money.

bobbi rebell:
How did you start investing?

sarah wilson:
I did a lot of research, and procrastinated way too long. And then I just kind of jumped in. I bought a few index funds. I did a little robo-investing. Just kind of got my feet wet and figured out what was right for me. I'm still exploring that. I'm starting to purchase, actually, some single stocks and do some more exploratory stuff.

sarah wilson:
I funded my... I did more retirement funding for her, so I opened a couple of Roth IRAs. It's a really fun time now because I'm learning about all of that, which was not within my capacity when I was getting out of debt. I couldn't think about future dreams then.

bobbi rebell:
How specifically are you learning? What are your tools and how did you set up these things? I mean, if we get really basic, did you choose a robo-advisor? Did you just walk into a branch of a brokerage firm? I mean, what specifically did you do at that point?

sarah wilson:
Well, I tried working with a planner first and then I didn't like that. They wanted 5% of whatever I invested and I was like, "You know what? No. I can figure this out. I figured out how to get out of debt. I can figure this out on my own."

sarah wilson:
So, I've read every single thing that Bigger Pockets has ever wrote. I've watched so many YouTube channels that my friends are on. As they've learned, they've shared that information as well, which is incredible. And read a couple of books. Erin's Broke Millennial's Guide To Investing, TFD, all of it.

bobbi rebell:
The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
It's The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Oh, I'm sorry, the Financial Diet. And of course, How To Be a Financial Grownup by someone you might know.

bobbi rebell:
Thank you. I think education is such an important message. As you go through the different phases of being a grownup, your phase one was paying off the debt. Your phase two is educating yourself to grow your money. So, you didn't go with a financial advisor that wanted to take 5%. What did you go with? Are you with a discount brokerage. Are you with a robo-advisor? How did you come to those decisions?

sarah wilson:
Right. I don't advise people who watch my channel to do this, because I think you should do things more simply. But I have, probably, 15 different investment accounts. I have accounts at Vanguard. I have accounts at different robo-advisors. Because I wanted to try everything, and I wanted to see the pros and cons.

bobbi rebell:
So, you're sampling?

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I'm sampling. I will continue to kind of narrow things as I figure out what is right for me. The different fee structures, pros and cons, that kind of thing.

bobbi rebell:
That's interesting. And so-

sarah wilson:
I'm not advising that. People ask me like, "Well, what do you think of Robinhood?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Let me go try it."

bobbi rebell:
Right. Well, one thing that people should... I just want to note. Very often, if you do consolidate your money and you get to a certain level, you can get benefits at these things.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
So, I do advise you even though I don't... But I advise you to consider consolidating into fewer accounts than 15 at some point.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
Because there are often benefits. People do want to reward their better customers. And also, from a question of just tracking your money and having those efficiencies. That might be something to consider.

sarah wilson:
I have a lot of spreadsheets right now.

bobbi rebell:
You mentioned in terms of your bigger picture life planning, what have you been able to do since paying off your debt?

sarah wilson:
The next big thing is going to be buying a multifamily property, and house hacking that into another stream of income. This is something I never dreamed of before. I never thought I'd be able to buy a house on a currently around $50,000 a year. But I have no debt. I live off of about 50 to 60% of my income, invest and save the rest.

bobbi rebell:
And explain what house hacking is. And that's a topic we're going to cover, actually, on a new Financial Grownup episode coming up.

sarah wilson:
Wonderful. House hacking is say I purchased a duplex for $200,000. Because I live in Texas and I'm very lucky. So, I move into one unit and then the other unit I rent out for say a little bit above what my mortgage payment and taxes are for the entire property. Suddenly, I've got essentially someone else, a renter, paying my mortgage for me. I've opened up another line of income and I'm also building equity in this home. In a couple of years, I can be saving the money that I'm saving on rent and do that again. Rent out both sides and maybe move into a different property, or maybe a fourplex.

“I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.”

Sarah’s money lesson:

sarah wilson:
I think that money mastery is a muscle and that none of us are born with it. And if we had been having this conversation three years ago, it would've been like, "I can't talk about house hacking. I can't talk about investing right now. I can't. I don't have the capacity."

sarah wilson:
But by doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it's cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or ballsing up and opening your first investing account, even though you're a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free. You just have to keep moving forward one step at a time. You can't just suddenly wake up and be you.

bobbi rebell:
You make a great point to not be afraid. And even though I do hope that you eventually consolidate your 15 accounts, I do think there's something to be said for just starting. If you open an account at a brokerage firm and you decide, for whatever reason, it's not the right fit, you can move that money to someplace that is a better fit. It doesn't have to be forever, but it should be starting.

“It just gives so much peace to know that I have $10,000 sitting in an interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.”

Sarah's everyday money tip:

bobbi rebell:
I want to transition to talking about your money tip because this is something that I totally did not know. I am significantly older than you, but apparently other people do. My husband made fun of me now for not knowing this. However, I feel that I have to be honest that I did not know to do this all these years, and maybe there are other people out there that haven't.

bobbi rebell:
We were chatting earlier at FinCon and I mentioned that I'd forgotten toothpaste. I had a toothbrush, I forgot the toothpaste. You gave me this amazing advice because I was about to go buy one. Go for it. What's your money tip?

sarah wilson:
I told you to go down to the front desk and ask the concierge, or hospitality, or the front desk clerk, just tell them that you forgot your toothpaste and toothbrush and they will give you one.

bobbi rebell:
For free.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, completely free. Like 50 feet away from the gift shop where they sell a miniature size toothpaste for $4 and a toothbrush for 3. He'll just hand you one.

bobbi rebell:
Not only did they give me toothpaste, they gave me a toothbrush. A full size toothbrush, by the way, Sarah.

sarah wilson:
Yeah. Like an Oral B toothbrush and then like Crest mini toothpaste.

bobbi rebell:
Totally.

sarah wilson:
It's the good stuff.

bobbi rebell:
And apparently they give away other stuff. The concierge.

sarah wilson:
What else do they give away?

bobbi rebell:
My husband has informed me they give away combs. They can give you a razor. All kinds of things that you would go to the gift shop right next door and purchase.

“By doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it’s cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or opening your first investing account, even though you’re a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free.”

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

I never thought about the fact that hotels and tons of other places that we visit, that we see throughout our everyday lives, have lost and founds. They do, guys. It's not just school.

When you're growing up, this can be very important. If you lose something, or misplace it, or maybe if you need a charger, like Sarah did. I know this is very basic, but just like I didn't know that you could just ask for things for free from a hotel front desk, that were for sale right around the corner. Make sure that if you misplace something, or you just maybe need to borrow something, again like a charger, you ask if there is a lost and found. Maybe the thing that you lost is there, or maybe something that you need to borrow is there.

I once left a pair of shoes in a hotel. Don't ask how I lost the shoes. I was wearing other shoes. Just trust me. And I called anyway. They looked in the lost and found. Sure enough, they were there and they mailed the shoes to me. All is not lost. Just ask.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Financial Grownup tip number two. Sarah is all over the place with her investing. That's her thing right now. We're not going to judge. But I do want to caution that although I said in our interview that you don't want your resources too scattered, and that there are often perks that you get if you have larger balances and you consolidate in one place, it's also okay to have your resources in a few places. Maybe not, and I know it's an expression but, put all your eggs in one basket. Put all your eggs in just a few baskets. Not too many, but a few.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but sometimes things do go wrong. There have been companies that have gone out of business, or sometimes something not so legal happens in some places that seem to be pretty above board until they're not. So, it's okay to have your wealth in a few places. Make sure that they have the appropriate protections in place. Whether it's a bank with FDIC insurance. Or SIPC, for example, for a brokerage. And understand what that protects.

For example, SIPC is not going to protect you from a stock's value going down. That's just the market. What it does protect you from is the custody function of a broker. So, if a brokerage firm fails, that's going to give you some limited protection. Take the time to understand the protections for your investments when you choose what entities to park your money in. Whether it's banks or brokerage firms, what have you, there's a lot of startups, make sure that they've been vetted, make sure you understand the protections that are in place. Made a deliberate decision about how many entities you're going to be parking in your money in. Again, 15 seems like a lot. Whatever works for you, though. I think it's your decision. Just make sure it is deliberate, as I said.

Episode Links:

• Sarah’s Website - www.gobudgetgirl.com

• Sarah’s Dave Ramsey Debt Free Scream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ofhfT4mx7s

Follow Sarah!

• YouTube - @BudgetGirl

• Facebook - @GoBudgetGirl

• Instagram - @GoBudgetGirl

• Twitter - @GoBudgetGirl

• Pinterest - @GoBudgetGirl

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Life gets too busy, and sometimes even financial grownups drop the ball on making sure their bills don’t balloon out of control. Bobbi gets real about how this happened to her, and how she managed to downsize her family’s cable and phone bills. 

We’re going to do a deep dive into why my cable and phone bills were so high, and what I did to stop the madness. And how you can hopefully make the changes that are right for you. 

I do want to remind everyone that I am in New York City- and as I discovered there is a high amount of mandatory taxes added to the bill- that may or may not be true where you are. But you will also see some taxes CAN go away if you know what they are for, and make some choices. 

First- why did it take so long for me to take a deep dive into these bills: a combination of inertia, and family pushback. My kids were insisting they needed very high unlimited data plans- and my family felt strongly they needed to have every single channel on the tv. We don’t go out a lot because of all the things so there was a lot of resistance when I spoke of cutting the cord. After all, as expensive as it is, the amount we would save, is still a lot less than even going out to dinner and a movie for a family of 5- even once. 

But still. 

What prompted it? My 12 year old getting a phone and my 22 year old stepdaughter is out of college with a great job, and  should be transitioning to paying her own bills. 

So- with fear and trepidation, I looked at the bills for my family of 5 and it was bad. 

The monthly wireless bill for my family.. was $347.77

The monthly cable bill- which also includes, internet and a landline, was $309.77 for a total of more than $650. A month. 

And for the record it is not an oversight- I’m not going to name the provider- because this applies really to any bills.. and I don’t want to point fingers. 

So there were three main areas that I was able to cut- and we’ll get into each one. 

The first place was the micro cuts- little- and sometimes not so little things that add up. 

The second place was making choices about what we really needed

The third place was device management- looking at whether we really need to be on the latest and best phones- for which we pay hefty monthly payments. 

So first let’s get into the micro cuts. There are things almost everyone can find and execute simply by looking at their bill and working through it with customer service. 

First: The plans. Most wireless carriers have shifted their business model. It used to be the phones were free-ish as long as you committed- and locked into-  an expensive plan. So we were paying about $60 a line for unlimited- those plans have now dropped to as little as $35 a line, because more people are paying for their phone separately, in some way. They may own it outright, or it may be a separate rental or payment plan,

As I mentioned, my stepdaughter now has a great job- that comes with a phone. But she still wants a phone for personal use. We dropped that phone to the lowest plan at $35 a month because she simply does’t need that much data. My stepson and son are now also on the lowest possible unlimited phone plans. I’m on the second to lowest at $45 a month because I do use a lot of data for business- but that comes with a subscription to Apple Music. That is key. I had been paying $10 a month for Apple music- so that brings my net cost in line with the $35 everyone else is paying. 

And that is an important side note- many phone carriers have deals with Apple Music, Hulu, Spotify etc. Make sure you are taking advantage of them. I was paying $10 a month for something I could get for free through my phone carrier.  So painful. 

Let’s keep going. 

There were a series of $5 and $10 bill reductions I was able to get- I asked if there was a loyalty discount for using both the company’s wireless service and their cable/internet service. Why yes- $10 for each for a $20 savings. Was there a discount for auto pay- because I was on auto pay but didn’t see it on my bill. I was informed that the auto pay discount does not work if you put it on your credit card- which I had done to get points. You must do it as a debit from our account. I switched- and got the discount- from both wireless and from cable/internet. 

Customer service volunteered that there was a military discount of $20 a month. I said that neither my husband and I were military- but apparently we are eligible because both our fathers were military- we just have to add them to the account- they don’t have to have a phone line. So we saved that. 

We were also still paying $5 a month to monitor my now adult stepchildren- so that went away. 

Let’s move on to the second thing we did and that is to make some choices. 

I have been pushing to just cut the cord, and I had been losing. 

But given that the kids basically watch youtube, this was getting silly. 

We not only had 100% every single premium channel, we had infinite other channels that never get watched. And we have Hulu. And Netflix. And Amazon Prime. Seriously. And we are too busy to watch that much TV. 

I made a deal with my husband that if I cut anything he missed, we could bring it back. 

Here’s where it got challenging. I asked the cable representative about the skinny bundles. Can she send me a list of the channels on them. They made this very hard. She just had lists of some channels that were ‘representative’. And when she sent me via email a link to the complete list, it did not work. Keep in mind, this project was moving past the 4 hour mark, complete with hang ups and call backs. 

I also had to push back against some assumptions she was making. She told me of course I did not want to live MTV. Of course I did not want to lose local sports. Actually- I was ok with that. I also was- to her surprise, ok losing every premium channel, thought I did keep HBO for now. But it was a frustrating push. We finally did settle on a skinny package that I think will work- though I never was able to get a specific list of the channels on it. It can always be changed. And by the way, bonus- by losing the local sports channels, we also lost a $9 a month tax that we pay in New York for the privilege of paying for local sports. Not making this up. 

I also asked about our internet speed- and guess what, we could get a better service, for the same price as the older plan we were on.. so we did that. 

Here’s another tricky thing. We had been getting our landline through our internet/cable provider- for $5 a month. But we never use it and only get spam calls on it. I’ve wanted to get rid of it anyway. Once we moved to the cheaper cable plan, the landline cost went up. Also with a ton of taxes, it was now going to be close to $40 a month! So we cut that. No more land line. 

Also - when we switched to the skinny cable bundle we were informed our cable boxes were out of date, so they charged us a one time $50 fee for that change. I was not happy. 

Let’s get to the third thing- and this made me really mad. As I mentioned earlier- the business model has been shifting away from having the phone plans subsidize the devices. We were paying $40 for each fo 3 phones in a monthly payment plan. Total $120 a month. Renting phones.  One phone has one month left and the other 2 devices have 4 months left. When that is over, I plan and hope to get out of the monthly renting game- we’ll be holding on to our devices and so saving $120 a month on that bill. And if the older kids want the latest and greatest phones and choose to rent them- that will become their bill. 

So there you have it- the bills, once we get those phone device payments off will be about half what they were.. and my bet is that my family will not come back to me asking for all those cable channels back. 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When Park Place Payments founder and CEO Samantha Ettus was just getting started in her career, family vacations were not in the budget. But she found a way to get a luxury vacation for free, with a little creativity, and a sense of adventure.

Samantha's money story:

Samantha Ettus:
Oh my gosh. You're the first person I've shared this with on air, but this is a little bit embarrassing. That's okay. We go way back, so I'll share it with you. But I was pregnant with my third child, and I had two little ones, Ella and Ruby, who were both under age five at the time. And spring break was coming up. We were in a very small New York City apartment. It was 1400 square feet. And I was freezing and just exhausted, and I said to my husband, "Where are we going to go spring break when the kids are off?" And he was like, "What do you mean? You have a book coming up that you have to work on, and I have this business I just started, and there is no budget for a vacation." I kind of had my own version of like an adult temper tantrum where I was crying and emotional and pregnant, very pregnant, and just beside myself that there was no way to get out of Dodge basically.

Samantha Ettus:
So basically we got in this argument and he said, "Well, if you can figure out how to do it for free, I'll take the time off." I said, "Okay, I'm going to do it." The first thing I did was get online, and this is ridiculous, but I looked up-

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is basically, I can tell, this is basically how Samantha Ettus gets a vacation for free. Okay. Go.

Samantha Ettus:
Exactly. Yes. Thank you for titling it. So basically I quickly got online and just said I was going to enter a contest where you could win a vacation for free. That was a total dead end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Or just enter the lottery, Samantha. Why not.

Samantha Ettus:
Right, exactly. If we're going down that path. Good stats there. And then I went on these home-swapping sites and saw so many exciting homes. Then I thought, well I can [inaudible 00:05:52] to this apartment. I went to the flower store. I basically had completely [inaudible 00:05:57] the apartment and photographed it by the time the day was over, and that night we had 15 to 20 offers of home swaps. There's all these websites where you can just house swap. You have to sign up and do all the things, and you barter, and people will immediately start making offers like, "Do you want my flat in Paris if I can have your flat in New York City?" I mean, that's literally what it was like. And it has to be compatible dates, but you type in your dates. I mean, these sites are really sophisticated at this point.

Samantha Ettus:
So we ended up swapping. By the next week we had our spring break plan. We used frequent flyer miles to go to Newport Beach, California. There was a family there of five. They had a brand new home. I looked it up on Google. I even Googled the owners to make sure they were legit people. She was like a VP at some company, and so I knew she was like a real person and I could find her on LinkedIn. She actually left her car, which was an SUV, at the airport for us, so that when we landed we had her car for the week. The only thing I had to do was feed her fish, which my little kids thought was so exciting, and we had a one week vacation in Newport Beach that was completely free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she let you drive her car?

Samantha Ettus:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Samantha Ettus:
And by the way, the one thing we did was we had a housekeeper come right before they came to our apartment and right after they left. So for us, you wouldn't have even noticed that they were there. It did not impact our apartment at all. We left their apartment in good shape and they left ours in great shape.

“I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.”

Samantha’s money lesson:

Samantha Ettus:
I think it was homeaway.com. But otherwise it was just the number one house-swapping site, whatever that is. You can just Google it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you done more, by the way, since then?

Samantha Ettus:
We haven't done more. And the other lesson I think is-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, why not?

Samantha Ettus:
Because we actually fortunately got into a position where we didn't need to do a house swap for a vacation. We found other ways to pay for the vacation. The other thing is we were in a New York city co-op, and like shh, but you're not really supposed to be house swapping in a New York City co-op. So it was a little bit tricky. But it's many years later. So I think I'm safe to share that with your listeners. But at the end of the day, it all worked out beautifully. I think in general we had a great situation. Their house was not as clean as I would have liked it to be. It wasn't as clean as a hotel would be. There were certain things that weren't perfect, but it was as close to good as you could get. I think the lesson is just you can always figure it out.

Samantha Ettus:
But the other lesson is to always keep that vacation money aside. Like figure out either a side hustle or figure out a way to put away money for a vacation. Because at least in my family, we are a two-income family. My husband and I are both working, and our vacations are so important to us because it's a lot of quality time with our kids. And so especially as our kids are getting older, we care so much about that time. And I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so glad you said that. It reminds me of the question that Warren Buffet got from a child recently asking about how to suppress his desire to, for example, go on vacation. I think they were talking about Disney, or Warren Buffet brought up the idea of Disney that you can say you want to save up for a seven-day trip to Disney, but then by the time you've saved up for seven days, your child is not the right age anymore or the age that you wanted to go. So maybe it's better to go for a two or three-day Disney trip. Or in your case, maybe it's better to go on a home swap and go on the vacation rather than just not, rather than waiting for the perfect time when you're completely financially able to afford your dream vacation. You have to live your life.

Samantha Ettus:
And the other thing about that it's the same thing as people saying, well, it's not the right time to have a baby, it's not the right time to fall in love, it's not... The bottom line is life doesn't work that way. And if you fall in love, go for it. If you want to have a kid, you'll figure it out. There's no perfect time for any of this. But I do think that time passes really fast with people you love. And so the more time you can spend having those experiences now it's really worth it. Don't delay happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't delay happiness. Excellent point.

“Time is more valuable than any other thing you have so use it wisely.”

Samantha's everyday money tip:

Samantha Ettus:
Yes. I think it is critical to think of your time as money. So for example, I mean this is just a little small example, but part of my team yesterday was ordering in lunch because we had a big conference call, and one of my employees who focuses on the budget was like, "Oh my gosh, it's so expensive." And someone said, "Well I'll just go get it." And I was like, "Hold on. Hold on one second. The amount of money we're saving for you to go get it, for you to be gone from the office to go get it for 45 minutes is actually not worth the $8 we're saving."

Samantha Ettus:
And so sometimes we forget that time is money. And that's just a micro example at work. But then at home it's like I will meet so many people who think it's better to not spend $40 on a housekeeper once a week or $50 on housekeeper once a week, instead of doing it themselves. But what could you be doing in that four hours? Could you be working on a side hustle, or that business idea you've always wanted to start? Like there are so many things you could do with that time. Or is it maybe worth it to spend that time doing something alone with your child?

Samantha Ettus:
I think it's pivotal to think of time as money. And pretty much time is more valuable than any other thing you have. So use it wisely.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Samantha talks about the cost of being out of the workforce, but with so many entrepreneurial ventures these days, how that is defined is changing. So you may work for yourself and not be in a traditional job and think you are good to go. And you are good to go to an extent, but you need to make sure that if you are not working for a corporation that gives you benefits, you are also paying yourself the benefits that you would have had. And specifically I want to focus on retirement savings. Many full-time jobs have some kind of plan, often a 401k with a match. If you do something yourself, for example, for the flexibility, something like Park Place Payments, make sure you calculate more than just your salary when you are figuring out how much you are really making, and make sure you set up a retirement plan for yourself and you fund it consistently.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Go on short vacations if you are on a budget. My family wanted to go to Iceland. It is crazy expensive. We went for four days. We had an amazing time. And if you can pay for part of it, by the way, with points and so on, do it. Don't save it all up for the most amazing round-the-world trip when you get old. Just use it now. Don't save it for when the time is perfect. Do it. I'm looking at my 12-year-old and wondering how he is 12 years old, and I am so happy that we have gone on the trips that we've gone on, and my only regret really is that we haven't done more adventures as a family traveling.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Samantha’s website - www.samanthaettus.com/

Park Place Payments Website - www.ParkPlacePayments.com

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Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Former Facebook exec. Paul Ollinger left his job with a pile of money and no plans. But retirement wasn’t all that and he decided to use his financial freedom to pivot to his true love, making people smile as a standup comedian and host of the podcast "Crazy Money". 

“The experience of being retired early was far far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.”

Paul's money story:

Yeah, I did quit at 42 and I left Facebook without a plan. I just thought, "Hey, I have enough money. I don't want to work and be stressed out all the time. I don't want to be away from my family. I want to be close to my mom who's sick," and I bailed on work and I didn't have a plan, so I thought, "Well, I'll just go be kind of rich for a while." After you take a few trips after you start getting back in shape and work on your golf handicap, one day I came home after dropping my kids at school and I turned on my computer and there was nothing there. It was like, you have no mail. I was like, huh. I was like, I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being a part of a team and I was like, well, what now? The experience of being retired early was far, far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because we talk a lot now, there's this growing enthusiasm for this acronym FIRE, as I mentioned, Financial Independence Retire Early. You have some very strong opinions about that.

Paul Ollinger:
Yeah, I think FI is great, financial independence. I think it's hugely neglected in our country and that we should all work very, very hard to buy ourselves back from the bank and to give ourselves a buffer so that we have the independence to leave a job if it's unhealthy for us, but I think the fascination, the fetishizing of RE, retire early, is hugely misdirected. You don't want to not work. You want to work on your terms and if that's how you interpret RE, then we're on the same page. but you want to be able to do work that's sustainable, that feeds your soul, and that is done in a way that leaves time in your life for things like family and staying healthy. The goal of retiring early and having nothing to do, that's not something any of us should aspire to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so back to the blank computer screen. You're sitting there, you got no mail, you got nowhere to go. What happens next?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I had done comedy before I worked at Facebook. I worked at Yahoo. I paid off my student loans and I went and I did comedy for two years before I went to Facebook. Then I got engaged and I just happened to end up getting a job selling advertising in Facebook, but when I left Facebook, I didn't have a plan. I was just walking away from something; I wasn't walking toward anything. After a year and a half, two years, of kind of goofing off and not finding what I wanted to do, I sucked it up and I decided I'm going to write every day, I'm going to get back in the open mics, I'm going to figure out how to reinvent myself as a stand-up comedian at, I guess it was 45 or 46 years old by that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What was the first thing you did? What was the conversation like with your family because you are now married and you now have children? If you're comfortable, tell us. You're welcome to tell us all your financial details, but give us some context for what this would involve financially.

Paul Ollinger:
On my very first date with my wife 14 years ago, I told her that I was going to quit my job and be a stand-up comedian and she was in from day one. You might also say she was warned on day one, so we've gone through periods of me doing very, very well in the corporate world and me making very little money as an artist. Four and a half, five years ago, when I really started back after Facebook, I said, "I'm going to commit to doing this, to getting after being a full-time comedian." She was fully onboard. Now, full disclosure, working at Facebook as one of the first 250 employees and getting stock options provided us with a size-able nest egg from which we have enough money to live indefinitely if we don't overspend. That certainly puts salve on the wounds of financial... the questions around finances if you don't have to make a living to feed your kids and pay your mortgage,

Bobbi Rebell:
What is it that you think people misunderstand then about the whole FIRE concept?

Paul Ollinger:
What people don't understand is how much they get from work that they're not computing on the positive side of the ledger. They think about work, they think about, okay, I get a paycheck and then it comes with all these costs of stress and hours and travel, but they're not saying, oh, what I get from work isn't just a paycheck. It's camaraderie, it's an identity, it's respect from colleagues, it's the satisfaction I get from learning and solving problems. All that stuff is really, really important. I mean, look at Maslow's Hierarchy. Belongingness is something that takes us one step above where we would be without work.

“I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being part of a team.”

Paul’s money lesson:

Find work that you want to do for as long as you can. Find work that doesn't just pay the most, but that you want to do for as long a period as you can. If you have a dream, by the way, it's a lot easier to chase if you've paid your bills first. Putting a little nest egg away before you chase your dream is a far safer way to do it than just saying screw this when you're 32 and then when you're 55 not having anything to show financially for your efforts of the previous two decades.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think there is a danger that some of the young retirees are putting themselves in by, especially, we're recording this at a time when the stock market is extremely volatile, so people may have historic calculations in their savings, but they may not necessarily play out as they expect?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I think there's two things there absolutely. One is, if you think having a million dollars when you're 32 in the market is going to last you forever, then you haven't lived through too many economic cycles and that million dollars can easily be $600,000 after a couple of bad quarters, so there's that. The second thing is that it's human nature that our wants continue to expand and it's not that we can't manage that as people, and I think we should be very aware of how we spend our money so that we're making sure we're spending it on what we value and provides us with more happiness, but however much you have and think you can live on when you're 32, it's not going to be the same number when you're 42 as perhaps your family expands or your parents get sick. There's all kinds of stuff that's going to happen in life that million bucks that could turn into $600,000 probably won't be able to pay for.

“If you have a dream, it is a lot easier to chase if you have paid your bills first.”

Paul's everyday money tip:

Paul Ollinger:
Be on the same page as your spouse. As difficult as it may be, go sit down and talk about where you're spending your money with your partner because there's nothing more expensive than not being on the same page with the person who shares, not just your life and your household, but the money that you all spend together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm just going to add, have that conversation ASAP if you're not already and don't be afraid to actually bring documents and go over what you're actually spending. Right?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, that's the first part is to find out where it's actually going and to say, "Hey, do you know that we're actually spending X on this? Do you feel like, are you getting what you want out of it? Because it doesn't feel like that's bringing us as much happiness as the top line number would indicate it should be."

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

My favorite line of Paul's in this entire episode was quote, "If you have a dream, it is easier to chase it if you have your bills paid." The truth is that is not so easy, but it is often the harsh truth. We get so caught up in the romance of going for it that we forget the role of financial stability in getting to our goals. No one wants a comedian who is stressed out about his bills, although actually in Paul's case, that could probably work into his act, but you get what I'm saying here.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

After our interview, I asked Paul how we could score discount or even free comedy tickets. He gave me the inside scoop. He said a lot of the shows don't actually sell out and the clubs make a lot of their money on the drinks and then the other stuff that you buy there, like souvenirs, so they really want to fill those seats and they often do this by sending out last minute email blasts offering free, free, free seats. You need to find out where the comedy shows are in your area or where you're going to visit. Get on those email lists, follow them on social media, so you can be on the list or get the social media tweets or posts and find out when those free tickets are happening.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Paul’s website - www.PaulOllinger.com/

• Paul’s podcast Crazy Money
  
  
  
  

Follow Paul!

• Instagram - Paul_Ollinger

• Facebook - @PaulOllinger

• Twitter - @Paul_Ollinger

• LinkedIn - @PaulOllinger

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Tess’ website - Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

• This is a great piece on value investing from one of my favorite websites Investopedia!

• Tess' Invested program- The Invested Program

Follow Tess!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.