There’s nothing grownup about having bad debt. Marcus Garrett joins us to share how he got into debt, how his parents helped him become a financial grownup, and his 4 step strategy to become debt free.
4 Steps to Become D.E.B.T. Free
Define the problem
Establish a plan
Build a budget
Trust the process
Follow Marcus!
Instagram - @TheMarcusGarrett
Facebook - @TheMarcusGarrett
Twitter - @TheMarcusGarret
LinkedIn - @themarcusgarrett
YouTube - @TheMarcusGarrett
Website - www.themarcusgarrett.com
Marcus’ book - D.E.B.T. Free or Die Trying
Follow Bobbi!
Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us and, of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.
Marcus Garrett:
I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life. They sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A lot of us spent, well, more money than we expected in November and December. Oh, high inflation. Yeah. Things got a lot more expensive, and they still are. And so we set resolutions in January. But here we are, it's February. And I kind of feel like this is the month of the reality check. So we were so determined in January to reach our goals. We started out so strong, but then each day and each week passes and here we are, it is February. Marcus Garrett is an award-winning freelance money writer. He is the podcast host of the Marcus Garrett Show and the author of Debt Free or Die Trying. You have seen him all over the media, including CBS News and USA Today.
Bobbi Rebell:
I asked him to swing by and kind of help us out with the debt issues that we may be experiencing. Or if not you, maybe some friends that want to help out that may be in a little bit over their head. Marcus has an incredible backstory that he shares with me that I think you guys are going to really find compelling. And then we get into some very specific tips about how to get out of debt. Here is Marcus Garrett. Hey, Marcus Garrett. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Marcus Garrett:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I brought you on to talk about your strategy for debt payoff. This is something near and dear to my heart because it's something that we have a lot of money shame about. I know I've had moments in my life when I have had debt and certainly not talked about it. I'm fortunate to have come out of them at this point and be in a much healthier position. But it's something that we all have, or at least a lot of us have experienced and can relate to and a lot of us don't talk about, certainly at the time. Tell us briefly about your experience, because that's a lot of what's brought you to where you are these days.
Marcus Garrett:
I got $26,000 in debt in 72 hours.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch.
Marcus Garrett:
It all started with a yo-yo. I was 18-years-old walking through the campus like many, millennial flashbacks. I should have hit hashtag trigger warning. And I went to the table where they had the credit cards and they had the swag to choose for. I chose a yo-yo. I signed up for $9,000 credit card at the time. I didn't know it was $9,000. It was a Discover card if I remember correctly. Then I got three more credit cards, graduated school with $9,000 in debt. And then I got a consolidation loan, which was supposed to consolidate in all one low monthly payment, as we all know. I took that consolidation loan, bought a car, bought some rims, I bought a $3,000 TV. I'm very specific about that because people can't wrap their head around the TV used to be $3,000. But that's just a reflection of how old I am.
Bobbi Rebell:
You can still get a TV for $3,000 or more, trust me.
Marcus Garrett:
But not a 42-inch TV.
Bobbi Rebell:
No, no.
Marcus Garrett:
I got a 70-inch TV this year for $300. So I ran out and buy a bunch of stuff that I don't need and didn't appreciate the value. And then I wrote a book about it, $30,000 in debt. It took me seven years to pay off that yo-yo.
Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to clarify. So you rang up $9,000 in debt, and then when you got the consolidation loan, you were supposed to use that money to pay off the debt, but you did not.
Marcus Garrett:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
You then use that too for more debt.
Marcus Garrett:
I bought more debt.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just so that we followed more debt correctly.
Marcus Garrett:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You got more debt. Okay.
Marcus Garrett:
I used debt to buy more debt.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what was going on there? I mean, without getting too detailed, just because I have this book launching, Financial Grownups, coming out. What happened in sort of your childhood or early adulthood that you had no idea this was happening?
Marcus Garrett:
I'd say kind of reminds me of the mind of [inaudible 00:05:05] is just the mind of a 22-year-old. Now that I'm on the wrong side of 30, I can barely wrap my head around that I did that. It almost seems like a dream that I watched on Netflix or something like that. It didn't actually happen to me. But I was really just ignorant of how money worked. It was really that simple. I really thought it was free money. I got a credit card, I thought I was getting over all the banks. I'm like, "Can you believe how low this minimum payment is? These guys, they don't know what they're doing. They're just giving me money." And then when I got the consolidation loan, I truly believed that they would pay off the credit card for me and that I would just make this new monthly payment.
Marcus Garrett:
And they sent a 22-year-old, I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life, they sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly." And I mean, I don't know how 22-year-olds are today. Now when I talk to kids, I feel they are more advanced that they have more information available to them, but they're still young-minded. I was just young-minded and I didn't have information available to me. But what I did have was a blank $10,000 check.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And were there any stakeholder, financial stakeholders, in your life that were influencing you? Who was influencing you? I mean, were you getting information from parents or other adults in your life, from the school, or were your influences just your peer group who maybe were getting the same thing?
Marcus Garrett:
I don't want to discount the role that my parents played because my parents are actually very good with money, but they've stumbled into it. They're just very cheap. And they've done really well for themselves. They're just your traditional savers, and they just save consistently. They're they're now both retired. My parents practiced FIRE and didn't even know what FIRE was. So they both retired early and they're currently retired now 20 years in. They were both retired in their fifties. But at the same time, which is weird, they were doing that as my parents, but not as my peers or my friends, which answers the other part of your question. We didn't really talk about money in the household. They helped me set up a savings account, which I'm very grateful and appreciative of. They showed me how to save and ultimately help buy my first car.
Marcus Garrett:
But we didn't really talk about the why. It wasn't as in-depth as it is today with the personal finance community and all the podcasts. So to pivot to the other side of your question, yes, it was thus other ignorant 22-year-olds just like myself. And what was fascinating is they were always buying stuff and I could never figure out how. I had three jobs and they had no jobs, yet they were always buying stuff. I learned later they were using their loans, their student loans and cash back. I didn't have any student loans. So I was like, "I have to keep up with the Jones's, or in this case, my juniors." I had to keep up with the juniors. And so I was buying it all with credit cards. And I learned too late in life that they were buying all that with debt, a different type of debt.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think peer pressure is a big thing when it comes to money, especially for young people. And were your parents aware that this credit card debt was building up? Were their conversations about it? Did you get any education from your school?
Marcus Garrett:
None from the school.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Marcus Garrett:
I can say that for a fact. I don't think they knew how big the scope of it was. And I remember one time, I distinctly remember this conversation. By then in Colorado, at the time I had moved to Colorado because I had so much debt, or part of the reason I moved to Colorado was because I had so much debt.
Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why Colorado?
Marcus Garrett:
I got a job opportunity that increased my pay 40%. And so by this point in my life, I had to move for money. I had to chase money to pay off all this debt I accumulated. I was 27-years-old. So five years after that, that car and $26,000 experience. So now I'm chasing after more money, because like most people, I think trading time for money is how you solve all your money problems.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're paying for your past.
Marcus Garrett:
Right. So I went to Colorado. And just having a good conversation, my mom's super proud of me. And it always has been super supportive. She knows how much I make. I mean, I work in the public sector, it's not hard to find. And she was like, "Oh, you must be," frankly, whatever she said, but balling out of control, which would be my terms. That's not what came out of my mom's mouth. I was like, "No, I got $18,000 in credit card debt." And I remember her eyes. My mom's probably never had a $18,000 credit card debt in her entire life. But she was in shock by that. But even that wasn't that big of a deal to me because I knew my friends had $30,000 in debt. And 20 is like, everybody's doing it. It's just I really didn't realize how big of a number it was, because I didn't see it objectively. I just said, "Well, everybody has debt. That's the American way of life."
Bobbi Rebell:
And your mother, did she offer to step in? Did she talk to you? Did she offer solutions? What was her reaction?
Marcus Garrett:
She definitely didn't offer to step in. My parents, they're they're not the salvation type. They're not the helicopter type. They're the, we've done what we can for you and good luck with that type. So she's like, "Oh you got $18,000 of debt. So what you going to do about that?" I asked my parents for money once and it's only because my roommate was late with rent. And I still look upon that day with great lament and pain.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did they give it to you?
Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
They did? Oh good. I could talk to you about this forever, but I want to give our listeners, you got four steps to becoming debt free. And obviously there's more information in your book. Let's go through. So debt free, and they go by D-E-B-T. So the first one is to find the problem.
Marcus Garrett:
Yes. So I tell people, and if they want this plan, they can get it at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. I now give it away for free, because I think it's that important. And the first step is, yes, to find the problem. For me, that's going to annualcreditreport.com and downloading, there you can get your credit report, not your credit score, related but different. And I remember when I had a conversation the second time to get a consolidation loan when I was finally making the proactive and responsible steps to get out of debt, they were asking me basics like what's your credit score? How much debt do you have outlaid?
Marcus Garrett:
I'd had no idea how much debt I even had available to me, assigned to me, my monthly payments. I was just, like most people, I was floating from paycheck to paycheck and making the minimum payment thinking I was doing well or getting by. And so I said I would never put myself in that position again. So step one, I tell people to find the problem. And I found out recently from a recent news interview I did, that's still true. I think it said at least one in three, but I think it was one in five people don't know their credit score or how much debt they have. You kind of just go into this wave of denial and start making the minimum payments.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, definitely. So D could also be for denial because I've had moments where I just do not want to open certain envelopes that come in the mail. And now that we do digital, it's even worse because you'd have to proactively log on and see something you may not want to see. But you know what? Guys, I have found it is usually not as bad as you think. And once you look at it, you know what it is, only then can you get a plan. And that brings us to E, which is establish a plan.
Marcus Garrett:
For me I use, it's still available, it's actually the one that I used. It was bankrate.com/calculators with a S. If they have under 70 calculators, I'd be amazed. But it's every calculator that you can think of. Mortgage loan, any way that you can get yourself from debt, I guarantee you Bankrate as it covered. And I use their debt calculator. And I remember I used this for frame of reference. Yahoo, I'm not even sure Google was around. I used yahoo.com to find bankrate.com/calculator. And I printed it out, the PDF. And that was the debt plan that I ultimately put together. And of course, things have been updated since then. There's all kinds of tools.
Marcus Garrett:
But I just tell people the tool doesn't matter. The best system is a system that works. So establish your plan. How are you going to pay down this debt? I think a lot of people are just like, "I want to be debt free." That was probably their new year's resolution. "I want to be debt free." And those goals sound good, but how much does that cost? How many months, how much do you have to pay each month to truly be debt free in that timeframe that you set for yourself? That's the hard part that you're talking about. That's where you're doing the work. So establish a plan, a true plan with a system to become debt free.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I totally agree. People will get caught up in the avalanche or the snowball or whatever, all these different things. The truth is, whatever works for you. And I am also a big fan of bankrate.com. All right, then we've got B is for build a budget. Ooh. I hate budgets, Marcus.
Marcus Garrett:
Well, that's good because I think the chapter is you actually don't need a budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Marcus Garrett:
What I say is you need a system. So the first budget is really to say, "Once you've got that, you know how much debt you had, you define. You've established a plan." And now really what I'm saying is build a budget around that plan, because sometimes a plan might say it's $500 a month. If you don't have an extra or cannot find $500 a month, then you've set yourself up to fail. So you've set your plan incorrectly. So it forces you to go back and revisit the plan. And that's why I say budget is actually step number three because it supports what you define and if you have an actual plan that you can follow. It's like a diet. If your diet says cut 2,000 calories, you're probably not going to do that because I think you need 2,000 a day to survive. So it forces you to, is this reasonable? Can I survive on this plan?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Being realistic is so important. And then the last one is trust the process.
Marcus Garrett:
So that's a shout out to my millennials and zennials out there. I'm actually a geriatric millennial, I found out. Those of you 37 and up are with me. But really all that means is the system works. I know for a fact this system cannot fail. And you said the avalanche and the snowball, I've used both of those as well. And in combination I've used a number of different systems that adjusted to my lifestyle as necessary. But once you choose one and you trust the process, truly buy in. That's why the book is called Debt Free or Die Trying. Not debt free until inconvenient, not debt free until I need a new TV. It is Debt Free or Die Trying. There's very little outs other than being out of debt. So hashtag trust the process.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great tips. You have a bunch of other stuff going on this winter going into spring. Tell us what you're up to, Marcus.
Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, I've got a lot. I'm currently, and thank you to Apple Podcast, I'm featured in Apple Podcast for black history month in they're hashtag secure the bag category. For the people who are interested in this plan, they can get it downloaded for free at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. And then I have a newsletter of now about 5,000 individuals. I've scaled from 200 to 5,000 in the last 12 months. And every week I send out something informative about getting out of personal finance. And my season three episode focus is from employee to entrepreneur. I just want to see people be great and do well. And it's called The Marcus Garrett Show. But honestly, it's just opportunities for me to have cool conversations with people I would've loved to talk to anyway. And you'll be on an upcoming show actually in the spring in March promoting your book. And then in April, I always do a big push for financial literacy month.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well thank you so much. And let's just give your socials and where else people can find out more about you.
Marcus Garrett:
I'm universally branded under The Marcus Garrett. I'm most active now at youtube.com/themarcusgarrett. And then I've always been super active on Instagram. Again, it's themarcusgarrett as well. I have about 10,000 coming close to 11,000 followers there. So I just, once again, share memes. That's the lighter side of me. So the cat makes cameo appearances. The cat gets more views than any video I ever put up. She has a video right now that's like I would describe as viral. So I do reels and memes on instagram.com/themarcusgarrett.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.
Marcus Garrett:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grownups, I think the thing that I liked most about this interview with Marcus Garrett was hearing about how his parents dealt with his financial ups and downs. For example, when his mom heard that Marcus was $18,000 in debt when he was in his mid twenties. So not even that young, he should have known better by then. She put it to him to find a solution rather than giving him actual money to pay down his debt. That said, in a true clutch situation, when, and this was at a younger time when Marcus's roommate did not pay his rent, probably knowing how hard it was for Marcus to come to his parents for financial help, they were there for their son. It's a fine line. It's a lot of what I talk about in my book, Launching Financial Grownups, because yeah, it's a tricky situation and there's a lot of nuances. Being there for kids, grandkids, and just young adults that care about in your life. But not always with a check or a financial gift as a solution. Sometimes, but usually not. Sometimes just as a support and helping them work through it.
Bobbi Rebell:
There are times when, if you can financially help in a specific situation, that is okay too. It's a lot about figuring out what to do when. So this is a perfect segue to ask everyone to pre-order Launching Financial Grownups. A lot of authors do big giveaways. But as you know, I put a lot of time, energy and yes, financial resources into providing this podcast for free. Along with my newsletter that you can sign up for free on my website, bobbirebell.com. I hope you will help me out by pre-ordering Launching Financial Grownups because the early sales, especially pre-orders, really help. And of course, Marcus is terrific. So everyone, please check out The Marcus Garrett Show wherever you enjoy podcasts. And big thanks to Marcus Garrett for helping us all be financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 one on Instagram and bobbirebell on Twitter, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.
