Futurist Amy Webb, co-author of The Genesis Machine, explains how money influences the development synthetic biology, and the risks we need to be aware of before it is too late. 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So, I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Amy Webb:
Hermès, they've got a bag coming out this year made of something that looks exactly like leather but is made out of a synthetic process. So, it's not like chemical-based, it's totally organic. It's just engineering cells to produce something different. That's going to retail for $4,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what, grownup life is really hard, but together, we got this. Hey grownups, we are going off script today for an epic topic because futurist Amy Webb is my guest. She is going to share information that you have not heard before but that we all need to be paying attention to because it is going to change everything you think you know literally about life. She basically reveals a lot about where money goes in our society. What is getting funded is going to shape the very genetics of humans in the future. It also, by the way, could mean the end of hangovers and diets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, look out for $4,000 plus Hermès bags not even made of leather. Yes, you heard that right. Now, at first, Amy's new book, The Genesis Machine: Our Quest to Rewrite Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology, which he co-wrote with scientist Andrew Hessel, may sound a bit intimidating, I certainly was. But I promise you, after our conversation, you're going to go out, you're going to get the book and you're going to read it. And by the way, she has many different accolades but Amy Webb is the founder and CEO of the Future Today Institute and a professor at NYU. Let's just get into it. Here is The Genesis Machine author, Amy Webb. Hey, Amy Webb, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Amy Webb:
Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is, in this case, sort of besides the point because I am having you on for reasons that are about money but also at a new level. Money plays a big role in the topic we're going to talk about, which is synthetic biology. We're going to get to that in a minute. But first, I want to just put it out there. Your futurist, your latest book is called The Genesis Machine: Our Quest to Rewrite Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology. It's about an emerging technology that's going to allow us basically to edit and design new forms of life. So, set us up here. Tell us about what all this means.

Amy Webb:
Sure. And I should qualify maybe, futurist sounds like a strange job title and so it could be easy to dismiss. Me, if I have to say, I would too. That's a ridiculous made-up sounding job title. My academic background is game theory in economics. This is a branch of research called strategic foresight. And so, we use data and build out models to try to see what's happening in the present and anticipate what could happen in the future. So, I just bring that up first because this is kind of a weird book. It's a book about the technology that pretty soon is going to allow us to edit, redesign, or totally design from scratch new forms of life. And that's important because it gives us the ability to deal with existential threats like climate change, we just got some pretty horrifying news from the UN a couple days ago, and also to manage and mitigate novel pathogens.

Amy Webb:
So, we've got risks on the horizon, but this is the same technology that helps us potentially improve the human condition and improve longevity. The book is about this area of science that kind of incorporates gene editing, and DNA sequencing, and synthetic biology. These are new relatively areas of science and tech that combines engineering, and design, and computer science. And essentially, what this allows researchers to do is to program biology the way that you might program a computer. If you kind of forgot what you learned in biology class in high school, it's totally fine because this book is written for everyday people to understand what's coming because what's coming is it is enormous. I think 10 years from now, we're going to look back at this moment in time and be able to see how clearly things were changing right before our eyes. I think we're going to eventually be talking about synthetic biology the way we talk about AI today.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this is, in fact, has a lot in common with AI which you covered in your previous book, including the story of where the money flows. Can you talk a little bit about the fact that a lot of science is very underfunded but yet it's interesting who is funding this and what money is going into this and what purpose that's going to have in the future.

Amy Webb:
Right. So, everybody's thinking about NFTs in the metaverse right now, but this is kind of a really interesting area that some big unusual names are paying very close attention to. Bill Gates is a big proponent of this tech and a big investor in this space. But so is Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt, as some of you probably know, used to be the head of Google. One of the things that's interesting is that there's actually kind of an overlap between the VCs, and the hedge funds, and a lot of the investment community that funds AI, and those who are funding the future of synthetic biology, as strange as that sounds. I can give you a concrete example. In part because of SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19, this acted as a catalyst. Suddenly, everybody was trying to find a way to test and diagnose and then treat this horrible pathogen.

Amy Webb:
But that had some interesting knock-on effects. I think it was like two weeks ago, some biotech veterans raised $3 billion, that is billion with a B, to create a new company called Altos Labs on the premise that the fundamental machinery of life, which is cells, can be reprogrammed. If they raised $3 billion, think of what the valuation, the pitch must be. I mean, it's like incomprehensible. I bring this up just to say this is not a bunch of weirdos playing biohacker in their garage. This is real stuff and this is on a long time horizon, and there are majors in the space that are investing. But also, Google has a division dedicated to research in this space, so does Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to figure out how to use DNA as a storage device, which is kind of insane, right? But they're working in this space too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah and I should say what you mean is to store data inside of DNA-

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which is bananas. One of my favorite parts of the book is you talk about the futures and you talk about different scenarios of how this could be used in our practical lives. And when you think about those scenarios, you think, "What would people pay for this?" For example, you talk about the idea of no longer having hangovers, of no longer having to diet when you want to lose weight because of the things that we can do to our food and to the way that we consume food. Tell us more about that, because to me, that's an investment I want to make-

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... both as a consumer, I want that technology, and also as an investor.

Amy Webb:
Right. On the consumer side of things, I think it's worth noting that you can already get an entire genome sequenced for less than the cost of a pair of Nike Air Jordans. And that's pretty spectacular that prices come down by orders of magnitude since the first human genome, with the first draft was completed in the early 2000s. What does that mean? That means that a lot of people are sending off their samples to 23andMe and similar types of services, which pre-COVID probably was a select few. But in the age of COVID, we're used to giving our DNA samples to anybody who feels like, literally in New York City, I had to get a COVID test a couple months ago and I went to a guy in a van. And I was like, "Yeah, take my data. I guess that's what we're doing now," which is terrifying at any rate.

Amy Webb:
There's just this entire economy that's blossoming, that's blossoming now, but there's some practical reasons why. So, with regard to Microsoft, at some point, our computers can only get so small and they can only get so powerful. And we also have a geopolitical problem because most of our semiconductors come from a troubled region of the world. So, I think some of what's going on here is, can we reduce some of the soul-crushing uncertainty of our supply chains? And can we shrink components down to like nanoscale? Which again, I know it sounds insane, but there's a company called Roswell Technology that just did this. They just made an announcement of the world's first molecular chip. It has 16,000 sensors on it, smaller than the size of a fingernail. It makes use of biology as a computing platform.

Amy Webb:
So, again, I know all this sounds crazy, but their practical reasons that we describe in the scenarios, obviously, this changes food. It means that a couple of Super Bowls from now, the 1.45 billion with a B chicken wings that we consume on a single day in the United States won't have to come from 750,000 chickens. We could get it all out of a bioreactor. And bioreactors could be in every town and every city so it drastically shorten supply chains. In the beauty space, that's actually a pretty mature area where this research is already being applied, so just different approaches to products that make your cells work for you versus a cream or something that layers on top of your skin and doesn't really solve any problems to totally different ways that were going to produce materials.

Amy Webb:
I've seen some leather already that is made out of mycelium. It's made out of the fibrous material that connects mushrooms. And you would never know the difference. In fact, Hermès, I don't, obviously I carry many Hermès's bags. I don't know how to say that correctly, I'm not fancy. They've got a bag coming out this year made of something that looks exactly like leather but is made out of a synthetic process. So, it's not like chemical-based, it's totally organic. It's just engineering cells to produce something different. That's going to retail for $4,000, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So wait, so just to circle back though in terms of the not gaining weight and in terms of the not having a hangover, because I know people want to hear that.

Amy Webb:
Yeah. So, there is a product, I think it's in the market already, it's an enzyme. It's kind of like functions a little bit like a probiotic. So, the idea is before were a night out drinking, you would take this enzyme and probably still get pretty drunk if that's what you were trying to do but it would prevent the after effects, the hangover part. But what's really interesting is, couldn't you just engineer a molecular whiskey or like a bioengineered wine to have that enzyme side of it already so that you just don't suffer those ill effects afterwards? And that research is underway and you can already buy some functional beverages that are hoping to do some of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the dieting?

Amy Webb:
The dieting is something that people are looking at. That one's a little bit more tricky because there is what causes hunger and then there's the mental, like the part of you that wants to eat, so there's deeply rooted psychological things that have to do with that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's out there but it's a longer timeline. All right. We don't have that much time left and I want to touch on risks. You talk about nine risks in the book. We can't go out to all of them. But one thing that I find fascinating is that you talked about, we gave our DNA to these random trucks on the street to get these tests for COVID. We leave DNA all over the place. And this is true, for example, you talked about the example of CEOs. They leave DNA all over the place. Someone could program, could somehow take the DNA and you could explain this better than I can, but they can be a little bit mischievous. Talk through that scenario of what could happen and how this could affect the company if the CEO's health is compromised through having their DNA effectively stolen.

Amy Webb:
Right. So, I know this sounds insane, but if you recall, President Macron of France met with Putin just before Russia started its attack and he refused to have a COVID test because he didn't want his data housed within Russia. And some people made fun of him but he was really smart to do that. A couple of years ago, there was a artists collective/activists collective that said that after WEF, so after the World Economic Forum Meeting in Davos, I was actually at that one, I'm assuming that I am nowhere near important enough that anybody went around to collect my stuff, my data, but they collected used napkins and coffee cups and things from world leaders and scraped the DNA off, had it sequenced and said, "We're going to auction off your sequences to the highest bidder."

Amy Webb:
Now, that is challenging to do but it's not impossible to do. And it does beg the question, "If I have your sequence, can I engineer something, some type of virus that is maybe not deadly but is debilitating?" And if you, as a CEO or you as a global leader had like chronic stomach pain or chronic diarrhea or something like that, the question I ask is, "Well, what fiduciary responsibility do you have to report that to your board and to shareholders and what do you do about it?" I mean, that's one of these weird questions, but we're already starting to see malware show up in sort of new ways and new forms of corporate espionage that involve biology. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could start seeing biological malware enter the mainstream here and there, which is kind of scary.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really scary. Okay, I'm going to pivot one last quick question.

Amy Webb:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not a very smooth transition, but I know there's already ETFs out there that people can invest in.

Amy Webb:
Oh yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you share a little bit about how people can invest in this space?

Amy Webb:
Yeah. And I want to be clear, I'm not specifically making investment advice, but there are ETFs, there's also a lot of thematic investing, Cathie Wood's ARK capital management or is it ARK investments? So, synthetic biology is a big piece and they have an ETF. Franklin Templeton launched an ETF. So, there are funds that exist and they're performing pretty well, but there's also individual companies that either IPOed or SPACed. So, Ginkgo Bioworks is an example of the latter but they're performing pretty well. They make custom microbes. Twist Bioscience is a really interesting company. It's an infrastructure company and those are always good to look at when a new ecosystem is forming.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very, very interesting. And by the way, if anyone wants a little more incentive to buy Amy's book, there is more information on page 96. So, you got to go to the book to get more info. Amy, this has been amazing. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you. I know your book is available everywhere.

Amy Webb:
Thank you. The book's available everywhere. Independent local bookstore is terrific but it's also available on Amazon and Walmart and everywhere books are sold online. And if you're interested in trends and what's on the horizon, all of our work is open source and freely available to download at the futuretodayinstitute.com. We've got our 15th annual Tech Trends Report launching in about two weeks at South By South West. And there are, I guess you're the first to know this, we have 574 trends this year spread across 13 individual volumes and like 20 different industries. So, it's pretty enormous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Well, thank you so much for being here on Financial Grownup and good luck with everything. Thank you.

Amy Webb:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, I'll admit it, I am a little obsessed with this Hermès bag is going to be and whether it will be like synthetic diamonds where it is still not considered real or whether because it's so cool and new it's going to be considered something better than I guess what we would say the real thing was. This stuff is so cool. I also really found it interesting that we can all invest in synthetic biology. Let me know if you're going to do that. This episode was pretty intense, but I hope you enjoyed it. I usually cut interviews down but I did not want to have you guys miss anything I had to say. So, it is really all there and there is so much more in her book. So definitely, pick up Amy's book, The Genesis Machine. Check out the Future Today Institute for more incredibly cool info.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so generous that they make everything open source, so cool. If you enjoyed this episode, please share on social. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 if you do so. And big social media news, I started a TikTok channel. I have no idea what I'm doing so please follow me for all the cringiest videos ever. Super easy to find, just Bobbi Rebell, that is my TikTok handle. Thank you to everyone buying my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and for leaving reviews on Amazon. Algorithms pick up on that stuff so I really need your support. Please leave an Amazon review. Loved having Amy Webb of the Future Today Institute on talking about her latest bestseller, The Genesis Machine, and thanks Amy for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Life gets too busy, and sometimes even financial grownups drop the ball on making sure their bills don’t balloon out of control. Bobbi gets real about how this happened to her, and how she managed to downsize her family’s cable and phone bills. 

We’re going to do a deep dive into why my cable and phone bills were so high, and what I did to stop the madness. And how you can hopefully make the changes that are right for you. 

I do want to remind everyone that I am in New York City- and as I discovered there is a high amount of mandatory taxes added to the bill- that may or may not be true where you are. But you will also see some taxes CAN go away if you know what they are for, and make some choices. 

First- why did it take so long for me to take a deep dive into these bills: a combination of inertia, and family pushback. My kids were insisting they needed very high unlimited data plans- and my family felt strongly they needed to have every single channel on the tv. We don’t go out a lot because of all the things so there was a lot of resistance when I spoke of cutting the cord. After all, as expensive as it is, the amount we would save, is still a lot less than even going out to dinner and a movie for a family of 5- even once. 

But still. 

What prompted it? My 12 year old getting a phone and my 22 year old stepdaughter is out of college with a great job, and  should be transitioning to paying her own bills. 

So- with fear and trepidation, I looked at the bills for my family of 5 and it was bad. 

The monthly wireless bill for my family.. was $347.77

The monthly cable bill- which also includes, internet and a landline, was $309.77 for a total of more than $650. A month. 

And for the record it is not an oversight- I’m not going to name the provider- because this applies really to any bills.. and I don’t want to point fingers. 

So there were three main areas that I was able to cut- and we’ll get into each one. 

The first place was the micro cuts- little- and sometimes not so little things that add up. 

The second place was making choices about what we really needed

The third place was device management- looking at whether we really need to be on the latest and best phones- for which we pay hefty monthly payments. 

So first let’s get into the micro cuts. There are things almost everyone can find and execute simply by looking at their bill and working through it with customer service. 

First: The plans. Most wireless carriers have shifted their business model. It used to be the phones were free-ish as long as you committed- and locked into-  an expensive plan. So we were paying about $60 a line for unlimited- those plans have now dropped to as little as $35 a line, because more people are paying for their phone separately, in some way. They may own it outright, or it may be a separate rental or payment plan,

As I mentioned, my stepdaughter now has a great job- that comes with a phone. But she still wants a phone for personal use. We dropped that phone to the lowest plan at $35 a month because she simply does’t need that much data. My stepson and son are now also on the lowest possible unlimited phone plans. I’m on the second to lowest at $45 a month because I do use a lot of data for business- but that comes with a subscription to Apple Music. That is key. I had been paying $10 a month for Apple music- so that brings my net cost in line with the $35 everyone else is paying. 

And that is an important side note- many phone carriers have deals with Apple Music, Hulu, Spotify etc. Make sure you are taking advantage of them. I was paying $10 a month for something I could get for free through my phone carrier.  So painful. 

Let’s keep going. 

There were a series of $5 and $10 bill reductions I was able to get- I asked if there was a loyalty discount for using both the company’s wireless service and their cable/internet service. Why yes- $10 for each for a $20 savings. Was there a discount for auto pay- because I was on auto pay but didn’t see it on my bill. I was informed that the auto pay discount does not work if you put it on your credit card- which I had done to get points. You must do it as a debit from our account. I switched- and got the discount- from both wireless and from cable/internet. 

Customer service volunteered that there was a military discount of $20 a month. I said that neither my husband and I were military- but apparently we are eligible because both our fathers were military- we just have to add them to the account- they don’t have to have a phone line. So we saved that. 

We were also still paying $5 a month to monitor my now adult stepchildren- so that went away. 

Let’s move on to the second thing we did and that is to make some choices. 

I have been pushing to just cut the cord, and I had been losing. 

But given that the kids basically watch youtube, this was getting silly. 

We not only had 100% every single premium channel, we had infinite other channels that never get watched. And we have Hulu. And Netflix. And Amazon Prime. Seriously. And we are too busy to watch that much TV. 

I made a deal with my husband that if I cut anything he missed, we could bring it back. 

Here’s where it got challenging. I asked the cable representative about the skinny bundles. Can she send me a list of the channels on them. They made this very hard. She just had lists of some channels that were ‘representative’. And when she sent me via email a link to the complete list, it did not work. Keep in mind, this project was moving past the 4 hour mark, complete with hang ups and call backs. 

I also had to push back against some assumptions she was making. She told me of course I did not want to live MTV. Of course I did not want to lose local sports. Actually- I was ok with that. I also was- to her surprise, ok losing every premium channel, thought I did keep HBO for now. But it was a frustrating push. We finally did settle on a skinny package that I think will work- though I never was able to get a specific list of the channels on it. It can always be changed. And by the way, bonus- by losing the local sports channels, we also lost a $9 a month tax that we pay in New York for the privilege of paying for local sports. Not making this up. 

I also asked about our internet speed- and guess what, we could get a better service, for the same price as the older plan we were on.. so we did that. 

Here’s another tricky thing. We had been getting our landline through our internet/cable provider- for $5 a month. But we never use it and only get spam calls on it. I’ve wanted to get rid of it anyway. Once we moved to the cheaper cable plan, the landline cost went up. Also with a ton of taxes, it was now going to be close to $40 a month! So we cut that. No more land line. 

Also - when we switched to the skinny cable bundle we were informed our cable boxes were out of date, so they charged us a one time $50 fee for that change. I was not happy. 

Let’s get to the third thing- and this made me really mad. As I mentioned earlier- the business model has been shifting away from having the phone plans subsidize the devices. We were paying $40 for each fo 3 phones in a monthly payment plan. Total $120 a month. Renting phones.  One phone has one month left and the other 2 devices have 4 months left. When that is over, I plan and hope to get out of the monthly renting game- we’ll be holding on to our devices and so saving $120 a month on that bill. And if the older kids want the latest and greatest phones and choose to rent them- that will become their bill. 

So there you have it- the bills, once we get those phone device payments off will be about half what they were.. and my bet is that my family will not come back to me asking for all those cable channels back. 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The gig economy is here to stay, and freelancing can be either a side hustle or a full time job. Cody Berman of Fly to Fi joins us with 5 tips on how to maximize your time and profits doing what you love, on your own terms.

5 things you must know to freelance like a Financial Grownup

• Take the time to get set up intentionally

• Have a niche

• Invest in the right tools

• Know how to document

• Create systems

Episode Links

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Cody’s website - https://flytofi.com/

• Cody’s podcast The FI Show

• Cody’s Freelance Course - https://goldcityventures.com/financial-grownup

How to get TWO discounts for Cody’s Freelance course:

• You MUST purchase the course through the link above by June 30, 2019 in order to get the second discount!

• After you purchase the course through the link above, take a screenshot of this podcast episode within 7 days of purchase

• Post it on social media and tag Cody and Bobbi within one week of buying the course.. Bobbi is at @bobbirebell1 and Cody is at @CodyDBerman on instagram

• After the 30-day money back guarantee has expired, we will make arrangements to send you the additional 40 percent off the course.

• We wanted to give a huge shout out to our editor Steve Stewart. In Cody’s freelance course, you will find an exclusive interview with Steve, who shares a bit of his knowledge in the podcast editing world.

Follow Cody!

• Instagram - @CodyDBerman

• Twitter - @flytofi

• Facebook - @flytofi
  

Technology can’t really be unplugged, so the best solution is the make it work for us as Humans. Back to Human author Dan Schawbel joins Bobbi Rebell as co-host on this special Financial Grownup Guide. They discuss 5 specific actionable tips to using technology to enhance and humanize the role of our devices in our daily lives. 

• Specific ways to eliminate tech driven distractions

• How to manage devices and stay focused in meetings

• How to use apps to learn and then control your time online.

• How to most effectively use video conferencing

• The best ways to delegate unwanted tasks to technology so you can focus on being more human

Episode Links:

Dan's book Back to Human

Dan's book Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Dan’s podcast 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Guide, five ways to make technology more human, with special guest cohost, Back to Human author, Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi everyone, welcome to a new Financial Grownup Guide. These are short episodes meant to give us all some actionable life tips to be a little bit more grownup. If you are looking for what we now call classic episodes with money stories and everyday money tips from high achievers, they drop on Mondays and Thursdays. We have a library of over 100 and growing. So do check them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about technology. So many of us are feeling tech overload these days. At first, I had the idea to do a list of tips for unplugging. But you know what? I'm not sure if that's the best thing, or ever realistic. What we really need to do is just make technology work for us. So I recruited Dan Schawbel, he literally wrote a book about this called Back to Human, to get some tips about how we can get our technology to help us be a little more human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, thanks for co-hosting this special episode with me.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is the thing Dan, we need to learn to make tech more human in the new year because we cannot get rid of technology. We're over that whole concept. But yet we have to make it work for us as humans because of course you are the author of Back to Human. So you're here to guide us. So thanks for joining me.

Dan Schawbel:
Happy to be here as your cohost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about why this topic is so important to you, you basically wrote ... that's a lot of what the book Back to Human is.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. Technology has created the illusion of connection when in reality, our overuse and misuse of it has created a sense of isolation, loneliness, disengagement and lower team and organizational commitment. The way the workplace has changed now versus years ago is more people working remote, a third of the global workforce does. Yet 2/3 are disengaged. And you can be isolated in a physical space whether it's a corporate office. You can be isolated in the subway in New York City, where we both live, you can be isolated while you're walking down the street because people are looking and spending more time on devices than they are looking at a human being. And so I think this is important because as an introvert, as someone whose built a lot of connections digitally, I realize that it was very isolating and that the best way to use technology is to use it as a bridge to human connection. Let it get you to physical spaces, but be attentive, be respectful, and focus on the human to human communication because those relationships are what are gonna matter for you for the rest of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, I love that you're also realistic, that we can't completely unplug. It is what it is.

Dan Schawbel:
It is what it is. I think it's how, when, and where you use it. I interviewed 100 top young leaders and they say technology is a double-edged sword. It can be good or bad. And I think texting's someone that there's a meeting in five minutes or 10 minutes is appropriate but if you're in an argument with your coworker that's not gonna be solved through text and it's actually gonna make it worse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So Dan you brought with you five ways that we can make tech more human. Number one, eliminate distractions in your workplace, technology distractions.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. By watching TV, by having your iPad out, by looking at a laptop, if you're always doing that all day you're gonna feel trapped, you're gonna feel isolated from those around you. So be smart about what's in front of you and make sure that you take breaks because otherwise if you don't have a tech detox it's gonna be bad for your health and relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you pointed out take breaks because so many workspaces now have screens all around us, whether it's television, with programming and content going on, or screens that just have corporate messaging. We screens everywhere. Not to mention our own devices, our phone, our iPad, our computer. So you make a great point that we need to walk away a little.

Dan Schawbel:
Everyone needs a break. Especially in today's society, everyone's always on. Not having your phone is the new vacation, the average work week in America is 47 hours a week but people bring their devices home with them and on weekends. So we're just overworked, we're burned out and that's why there's a whole backlash now globally on hours work. Finland, UK they're fighting for four day work week. In France they have the right to disconnect. In Japan, every citizen gets Monday mornings off. So we're-

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Dan Schawbel:
The technology's made us always work and now all these countries are saying, hey we need to do something about this. This is bad for the population's health.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your second tip actually goes to that point because not only are the devices encroaching on our personal time, they're encroaching on our meeting time because you'll be in a meeting and people are sometimes sitting there kind of looking at you but also on their screens. Which is like why bother even having this meeting? So what's your second tip?

Dan Schawbel:
Put your devices in the middle of the table when you're in a meeting. People send an average of five texts within a meeting. And so they're not being respectful for the people who are speaking, they're unable to collaborate, and I think it's part of the reason why meetings are dysfunctional and they last too long because people are physically there but not mentally, emotionally there. And so they're unable to contribute, collaborate, and it's not only disrespectful but what's the point in even being in the meeting in the first place if you're texting and emailing people who aren't even at that meeting?

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan, number three, so apropo, because there's so many apps on our phones that are distracting us but we actually have some apps that can do some good.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The best way to take stock of how you're spending your time using technology is to use Moment app or rescuetime.com and they'll help you better understand how you're spending your time on apps and websites. And if you see that you're spending too much time on a certain app or a website, it's an indicator that you might wanna reallocate that time to more personal communication.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one way to be a little more personal in your communication, but also use technology, and this is number four, you wanna talk to us about video conferencing, because you can get a lot more from that. It's not the same as in person but it's a step in the right direction, right?

Dan Schawbel:
That's one of the great inventions of the past few decades is video conferencing because most communication is nonverbal and video conferencing allows you to not just hear someone but actually see them and how they express their emotions. And as a result you feel like you have a stronger relationship with them and you can better understand the message they're trying to get across.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite of your five tips is this one, the final one, which has to to do with using technology for the things that you can really outsource and technology is better at.

Dan Schawbel:
Let technology remove the work that you don't even wanna do. All that routine work, like making sure that you and your coworker or friend are going to the same event or birthday party, conference room at the same time so that you can be more thoughtful about the time you're spending with them when you're at that event, when you're in the conference room or celebrating someone's birthday party. And so I think that calendars and chat box and some of these newer technologies can remove the logistical work from what you have to do on a daily basis so you can spend more time doing the face to face.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good tips. Thank you so much Dan. And the final tip, of course, is to read your book, Back to Human because it has so many more incredibly ways to optimize the way that you interact with technology so it's actually supporting your life goals and making your life better and not having all of these negative effects that so many of us are fighting back against. So thank you Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks everyone for joining us. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss anymore upcoming Financial Grownup Guides. I am very excited about some of the ones that we have planned and be in touch on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 on twitter at BobbiRebell, and of course you can always email us, we are at hello@financialgrownup.com so glad you joined us in investing in getting a little bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

The holidays are full of good cheer and great shopping deals. But it is also a great opportunity for scammers who prey on distracted consumers who often have their guard down. Adam Levin, author of “Swiped: How to Protect Yourself in a World Full of Scammers, Phishers, and Identity Thieves” and the founder of Cyber Scout, joins the show to share the best ways to make sure no one steals the fun out of the season. 

Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

---

Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.