Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

Jen Hemphill: The first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.


We were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give.

I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell: Were they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill: I don't think it was that. That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell: Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill: I'm also a saver.

When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell: Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill: It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell: Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift, a loan?

Jen Hemphill: Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him. He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell: It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill: Yes, because then emotionally we don’t get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

A little bit about Jen’s book:

The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

In my take you will learn:

Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s book Her Money Matters

Jen’s website - www.JenHemphill.com

Follow Jen!

Twitter - @jenhemphilll

Instagram - @jenhemphill

Facebook - @Jennifer.Hemphill

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The cash crunch that led to a business that is disrupting the ultra short-term loan space

Travis Holoway started a Solo Funds, aimed at disrupting the short term, small loan industry by leveraging technology and offering a new kind of lending culture.

Travis: I was working on Wall Street and I was studying to be a broker and there's these exams that you have to take. They're series exams, but FINRA is the regulatory body. You know these exams are very strenuous and you're not really making money while you're studying for those exams.

Bobbi: So give me an example of what a typical salary would be and then what the cost of living is.

Travis: Man, if I remember correctly, I think I was making $250 a week.

Bobbi: Working at a financial company?

Travis: Yes. Working at a financial company in New York City.

Bobbi: What was your job there?

Travis: I was studying to be a broker. It's like a glorified intern, if you will. After you factor in the metro card I couldn't even afford much in the financial district where lunch was costing about $12 a day. So I took a job at CVS. Unpacking trucks, third shift and I would work 10 to six at night. I would come home at six o'clock I would shower, I would put a suit back on and I would head back into the office.

Bobbi: So you literally didn't sleep?

Travis: No sleep at all.

“ So even with working around the clock, I still couldn’t afford any financial surprises. I remember walking like 90 city blocks because I had no money left in my metro card.”

Travis: Actually what happened was I swiped my metro card and there should have been enough for another fair, but for some reason it didn't work. And the attendant told me that I had to mail them my metro card for them to figure out what happened. But long story short, that led to me walking 90 city blocks home. So humbling times.

Bobbi: So you're living this life where you're technically employed by brokers a firm, but you're really a glorified intern earning very little money. You've got a second job at CVS working overnight. So you're really not sleeping much. How does that play out?

Travis: So this situation for me didn't change or evolve until I actually took another job at another financial services firm where there was a more stable salary. And from that point I've been able to rise up the financial spectrum. But it was until I moved and changed positions that I was able to pull myself out of those financial circumstances.

Bobbi: You did pass the exams obviously?

Travis: Yes.

Bobbi: So basically by getting a higher paying job, that's what solved the problem for you?

Travis: Exactly. For me personally, yes.

The lesson here is really to focus on saving

Travis: Focus on getting to that first $500. If you have just $500 in liquid capital, you're actually doing better than half of the country. So people like to get down on themselves because they feel like they're not exactly where they want to be, but it's really a journey. And you know, it's a marathon. It doesn't happen overnight. But celebrate those little milestones along the way. You get to that first $500 saved, keep going, get to a thousand then get to 5,000 and just keep pushing yourself. But this doesn't happen over night for anyone except for power ball winners.

“Later on, I would talk to my friends and they would give me some feedback of what those payday loans actually meant for them. ”

So don't give up. I had friends who had taken payday loans during college and then post college and they would say, hey, just go to this brick and mortar building and get this loan for $400 and I would say, yeah, that sounds good. But there has to be more into that. And then after kind of speaking with my parents who actually steered me away from that and did everything that they could for me to prevent me from taking a payday loan, they're the ones who gave me that knowledge.

While it sounded like a good idea at the time, because their backs were against the wall and it seemed easy to go and get that capital after the fact, it really put them in a very tough financial situation because the fees that compound on top of those loans, it took them months and sometimes years to get out of.

My money tip is if you have the ability, add your teenage child or spouse that may have little or no credit to your credit card account as an authorized user.

Travis: Inversely, if you have a parent or a spouse that has more credit card accounts or better credit than you encourage them to add you to theirs. 28% of the country has no credit from any source and it's really important to build credit. And I personally believe that the FICO score stat, and I know we'll talk about that a little bit later, but credit is still required to accomplish many of life's financial milestones. So with that said, I believe that this is a tip best often overlooked and it's a great way to build credit. One your actual credit and limit I going to be considerably higher than it would be if you were applying for a brand new card. And then also the length of time that that account has been opened will also be a positive benefit to your overall credit report. So as payments are made to that card, they will positively impact everyone associated and it will help people build credit indirectly.

Bobbi: Right. And even though there is a lot of controversy right now about fico scores, especially with errors that can sometimes happen, which people should be vigilant about checking their credits so they can see if there are errors by the way. It is a time when people are looking for different solutions for access to money.

I really wanted to have you on because the company that you are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

About Travis; company Solo Funds

Bobbi: You are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

Travis: SoLo in short is a mobile mini exchange created to provide more affordable access to small dollar loans below $1,000.

We function very much like Airbnb for loans, but we were essentially created to disrupt that predatory payday lending industry that you're speaking about.

“. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower.”

The way that our platform works is it's a two sided marketplace and we're very different than some of the marketplaces that many have heard of like a lending tree or lending cloud primarily because we're focused on these small dollar loans and those larger, what I call big brother peer to peer lending companies are focused on loans up to $40,000. So that might be debt re-consolidation that might be a down payment on a home. We're focused on that American that's living paycheck to paycheck and that single mother that needs $100 to pay her utility bill or the college student who is $200 short for that textbook. That's who we're really trying to help.


Bobbi: I think one thing that's interesting here is that this could really apply even to families lending to other family members or friend to friend because you're providing a documentation and a paper trail effect if it's digital, but you're providing an authority in between. Because very often people are asked to lend money to people close to them and it becomes awkward. You don't want to be asking them. But if you go through the app, can you talk a little bit about how that would work because it creates a stronger outcome, a better outcome because you've made it more of an official loan, I guess.

Travis: Yes, exactly. So the reason why the platform is built that way is because the personal experiences that I had, lending and borrowing amongst friends and family. With that said, we're making this a real transaction and we're putting real terms around a loan. So people are lending and borrowing amongst each other every day via cash or other applications. But there's no terms around that. So if I wanted to borrow money from my mother and she said, Hey, I'll lend you the money but I'll lend it to you on SoLo, I would create a transaction on SoLo, which is basically saying I need to borrow $100. I as the borrower can actually create my own terms. The lender just agrees to the terms at a later point.


Bobbi: Right. So you can say, I'm going to pay zero interest mom, is that okay? And Mom can say, oh, that's okay. I don't want interest or mom can say I'm pulling money out of other investments. I want 5% whatever it is, you guys can work it out.


Travis: Exactly. Once we agree on those terms, there is a promissory note. A digital promissory note which is created which now says that I owe my mother X amount of dollars and that is actually enforceable. So the lender has track record of how much was lent, when the repayment is due and if there is any additional fee associated with that in the form of a return.

Bobbi: How is it enforceable and how do you guys get paid?

Travis: You know there are no impose fees on the SoLo platform, which makes us much more unique than any other financial platform today. So there are no imposed interest rates and there are no impose fees on behalf for SoLo. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower. And then solo actually makes a donation, which is also optional and paid by the borrower. Again, no imposed fees. So the enforceability comes into play where if a borrower does not repay, the lender the discretion to send that borrower or not send that borrower to collections. We have a third party collections company that we'll work on behalf of the lender to recover the funds. And once we recover those funds are directed directly back to the lender.

Bobbi: And what is your default rate? How often does that happen and how does it compare to payday loans?

Travis: Our default rate is two times better than the lending clubs, lending trees and [inaudible 00:12:15] of the world. We're about five times better than traditional payday loans. One of the things that investors are most excited about and other people are most excited about is this new creation of a credit score. I believe the fico score is dead because millennials in the under bank demographics are not doing the same. They're not living their lives the way that prior generations have like buying homes, buying cars, and using credit cards. So with that set, alternative data is necessary. And solo has this data on the under banked and millennial demographic and our goal is to be a path forward to upper financial mobility to where we can graduate borrowers from our platform to more traditional financial institutions in the future where they can have more resources and financial tools.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

#1: If someone that you care about needs money, in a cash crunch for example, and you have the money available but it needs to be a loan, not a gift, make sure you document it. Obviously SoLo Funds is an option to look into, but you can also draw up a payment plan or whatever. Just make sure the terms are clear and in writing.

#2: . Things for Travis did not turn around because he cut costs. They turned around when he got a better paying job. He got a better paying job by putting in the time to work basically as an intern and to study and then pass some big exams. They gave him more viability in the job market. Watch your money, of course, do not spend foolishly, but the goal always needs to be to earn more.

No one can cut their costs to get wealthy. Do the work, get a higher paying job, earn more money or some way to boost your income. That is ultimately what is going to build more money. More financial freedom is having more money. You can't cut your way to getting rich.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Check out Travis' website - https://solofunds.com/

Follow Travis!

• Instagram - @SoLoFunds

• Facebook - @SoLoFundsInc

• Twitter - @SoloFunds

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Charlotte Hale faced a big business dilemma.  When she named what she expected to be a seasonal business, Plum Pretty Sugar, she wanted to evoke a whimsical tone. But the brand soon became a powerhouse as the originator and pioneer of the now global multi-million dollar bridal ‘getting ready’ category, and she faced a challenge she compares to adulting but for brands. 

In Charlotte's money story you will learn:

Let's talk about the name, Plum Pretty Sugar, which makes you happy to saying it. I asked you before we started rolling how you came up with it and that was actually an interesting story because you think things are going to be one way when you start a project and then maybe not so much and maybe that's okay. Tell us your money story.

Yes. After my initial business, I was looking for what my next business was going to be. I didn't really have all the answers. I started what I thought would be a temporary business and it was something that sold robes and it was going to be for a season. By season, I mean a holiday season and just something that I could do easily and quickly and was also fun for me. I thought to myself, okay, well, what am I going to call this business? I gave it this fun, whimsical, playful name, Plum Pretty Sugar. Of course, one thing led to another and Plum Pretty Sugar is now the business. I still have the name obviously.

Did you think about changing the name? Do people approach you about the name? Because I had trouble saying it at the same time when I saw it on the screen, it made me happy. There's something very, as you say, very whimsical about it. Was there a story behind when you thought of the name? Do people talk to you about it and ask you about it now? Does it invite curiosity?

It always invites curiosity and when I named the business Plum Pretty Sugar, I wanted to have something that sort of went against the grain of everything you learned in business school, right? They tell you, you shouldn't have something that has more than three words and you shouldn't have alliteration, and you should create a word that means nothing that could mean everything, i.e. Google, Nike, et cetera. I just went against the grain entirely. You know, of course, I do think about it periodically in terms of, oh my gosh, it's so long, but at the same time it's so long that people almost remember it because it's so long or they changed the words kind of like you did.

Of course, we own all the URLs and all the versions of the order but because it's so long and people are like, "I forget the name," but they know it has pretty plum and plum pretty and sugar are built in there. It almost becomes memorable in a way. On the flip side, I sometimes want it to feel more sophisticated and elegant and more representative of where we are today. That's something that's sort of in my heart. When I say that to other people, they're like, but it is, it represents your brand perfectly. To the outside, I think it works. For me personally because I know where it started and why I started it, I have this back and forth kind of personal thing with it. It's fun. I do like it and we love the business.

It's interesting because you look back and it was almost a whimsical decision in and of itself, but it really was a pivotal branding decision that when you switch the business from being this seasonal business that you originally conceived of to being the permanent business, it's now a decade old, I should say. You did make a decision at some point to keep the name.

I did. I did. I really wrestled with that. You know, I thought, well, I have established the success. Why am I now going to go and change it? You know, it wasn't something that I could easily make up a story for or a marketing story for a while. This was great, but now I'm going to change it. I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward. That said, you know, we have done a couple of different collections that we've called for instance, PPS couture and we will reference ourselves sometimes as PPS when we need to or when we think that it's just a little bit too long for that given scenario. Also, another lesson is that it's really long to write as a logo and so we're always like, okay, how are we going to do our logo when we're ready for a logo update to make all those letters fit within a certain space or how people want logos to fit.

It does sound like what's happening is you are allowing the brand to grow up by having these things like PPS couture, you're adapting it for how the brand is evolving.

Yeah, we really are. I think also the connotation that I have and the whimsicality that it had for me initially, which kind of felt really sort of, I don't want to say young, but fun and lively. Now the way we've reiterated the letters a little bit differently and we're using the positioning of the logo a little bit differently and within the opportunities that we have, we're kind of growing up those words and trying to think of them differently. Sometimes it can be a challenge, but I don't think we can ever take away the name.

“What you think is temporary could be permanent whether it is a boyfriend .. or a business.. what you do in the early days impacts the long term”

In Charlotte’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, I guess, never think that something is temporary, what you think is temporary. It could be permanent, whether it's a boyfriend or a husband or business to a business. You know, what you do in the early days impacts the long-term and there's no doubt about that. To always think it through thoroughly and make smart decisions. I kind of knew in my gut when I named it, I was doing something that was kind of off the books and I probably should have listened to that at the time. We're going ahead and the name is staying.

Well, I like the name. I think it makes people feel happy. I think that it's serving you very well and like I said, I think you guys seem to have the way to adapt it in ways that will help the brand grow.

"Purchase quality pieces, think about who made them, where they came from and live with them for a long time.”

In Charlotte's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think for us and we talk about this in the brand too is just purchasing quality pieces, whether it's clothing or whether it's anything in your life, really, just to purchase quality pieces. Think about who made them, where they came from, and to live with them for a long time. For us as a brand that's important because we are in clothing and there is a decent amount of waste and we try not to be wasteful and we don't want to see whether it's clothing or plastic or whatever it is in landfills, for now, for our children, for our future. Buying quality pieces really, really can impact what we put in the landfill.

What are some specific things that our listeners can look for to know that something has been made in a responsible way and that is going to be long-lasting, et cetera?

Yeah. Shopping smaller, shopping locally, paying attention to the price point when something is 7.99 or $5 and it's almost like it's too good to be true then I think you really have to start thinking about who made this and what type of environment because it's just too cheap. That doesn't happen. You know, there's a cost for yardage. There's a cost for environmentally friendly ink. There's a cost to pay workers what they're supposed to be paid. When something is really too cheap, just think about it a couple of different ways and make sure that you really need it and want it.

“I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup tip number one. It goes to that saying that you should give a lot of thought to how you name a brand as much as it is possible, choose something that can evolve and grow with the business. It's also important to look at how others may remember that brand name and on that note, I want to point out something that Charlotte said sort of in passing. She has the URLs for all the ways people might mess up the name of her company. Grabbing a few extra URLs when you're setting up a business or a side hustle is inexpensive and really easy to do. I own close to 30 URLs tied to my various projects and ideas and side hustles. You know what? The cost is really minimal.

Set them up so that if someone types in something close to your business, they still find you. Make it as easy as possible for potential clients and customers and of course also friends and family that you want to be able to find your projects and your businesses. Financial Grownup tip number two, don't fight who you become as you grow up and go through the seasons and the milestones of life. Maybe just highlight different parts of who you are at that time. Yes, you will change, but the essence of who you are will not. Just like Plum Pretty Sugar still reflects the same essential vibe as the earlier versions, the earlier iterations of the business. It's just evolving and growing as it expands. This show is free for you but as I hope you guys can tell, we do put a lot of time, energy, and yes, there's a financial cost into this show and to keep it free for you, we do need your support.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

www.PlumPrettySugar.com

Follow Charlotte!

• Instagram - @PlumPrettySugar

• Personal Instagram - @CharlotteJayneHale

• Facebook - @PlumPrettySugar

• Twitter - @PlumPrettySugar

• Pinterest - @PlumPrettySugar

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Linda Davis Taylor looked like she had it all, but wanted to make more money. An unexpected meeting with the man who became her mentor took her out of her comfort zone, and into a role that would catapult her into a field where she made her mark, and inspired others to follow in her footsteps.

In Linda's money story you will learn:

We are actually the first investment advisory firm that was founded in the country, believe it or not, in 1915. Company's roots go back in this community over 100 years which makes it so much fun to work now with families who are in their fourth generation. We can see the 90 year olds, the 60 year olds, the 40 year olds and the 10 year olds in one meeting and it's just really rewarding to be in such a great community.

And community is really important. In fact a member of your community at the college you were working at 25 years ago is the focus of the money story that you are going to tell us, and it started with an appointment that was really you thought about his future, but it turned out to be about your future. Tell us your money story, Linda.

That's exactly right. This great gentleman who I knew a little bit then who became a lifelong mentor. I'll tell you more later, came into my office I thought to talk about the fact that he was retiring from his firm, and he looked me in the eye and he said, "I'm here because I want to change your trajectory and I want you to come and take over the leadership role in my firm," which was an investment firm which now is Clifford Swan.

Wow, and what were you doing? Explain more about what you were doing at the time and what your mindset was, because you weren't looking to make a change.

No. In fact I said to him, "Mr. Swan, I barely know the difference between a stock and the bond. How would I ever become a leader in the investment firm?"

I was in the higher ed environment, I'd been there for 25 years. I was a college admissions dean, I worked with all kinds of young kids going to college then I moved into philanthropy. I was working at this awesome women's college, where his wife was a graduate, and I was talking to women about philanthropy, which of course is connected with money, but in no way did I have the aspiration to think that I could make a switch from education to finance, and that's what he came in my office to talk to me about.

Was it a question of self-doubt, imposter syndrome? Talk about the gears in your mind at that point? What were you thinking?

I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me, but what I realized is that I really wanted to make more money, and he was the person who made me think, "That's great. That's not only okay, that's terrific, and it's great to have an aspiration about money if you're a woman."

How much of your feeling that you wanted to make more money were you holding back, you think, because you were a woman? Were you still tied to the often self-imposed rules that we put on ourselves?

I was the daughter of an entrepreneur, but I was told at that phase and that part of the country it's fine for you to be in education or maybe be a nurse, but you can't go into the family business because that's not what girls do.

Wow. Okay, so what clicked in your mind that you said, "You know what? Maybe I am going to do this."

I thought to myself, "If I don't go out of this office and follow this incredible opportunity ... This man has literally climbed into my office and said, 'How about do this?' If I don't do this now, I don't know if I'll have that opportunity again."

So I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step.

All right, so what happened? You just quit and left and started ...? What was it like starting?

It was very challenging because I did not have on paper the skills to do that job, so I entered then the financial world, mostly men, they thought, "What is this woman from a college doing here?" So it took me a lot of determination but also his support to be able to make that successful transition.

Having that male mentor, this goes ... I mean, we talk about a lot the importance of men to get women and help women to achieve what they can achieve. But it's not just for women, men play a very important role in this, and the fact that he had the faith in you and pushed you to do what you were capable of I think is important to note.

Absolutely, and probably true in many fields. At the time, this was 20 years ago, it was absolutely true in the field of finance that without a male successful financial entrepreneur, I don't think it could've happened and someone as determined, as passionate as this particular man who became my champion in that transition.

What I now know is that 20 years later, I see myself as a financial mentor, particularly to young women, but he was that to me, every week. And he retired from the firm after six months and he was not there day-to-day, but every week for the next 20 years we had breakfast and what he was doing gradually, over time, is teaching me, teaching me not so much how to be a CEO, but teaching me what it really means to have competence and confidence about money and to be aspirational about it, and I realized that a mentoring is not about one or two meetings, but it's about long-term really being consistent and building in that kind of, again, competence and confidence.

He passed away about a year ago. I miss him every day, but when I think about him I think of this Mark Twain quote that's very simple, and it said, "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambition, because small people always do that. The really great make you feel that you too can be great."

And I think we all need that. I think a lot of women need that. He did that for me, made me feel competent and confident about having those kind of aspirations, and my dreams and my ideas and my talents were really on target. I just needed to take it up and do it. So he became a lifelong mentor and now I think it's my turn to do that in whatever way I can.

“I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me but what I realized was that I wanted to make more money”

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

Find a financial mentor. You just have to find one. I think it's still very, very hard, particularly for women, to understand what their own fears or lack of confidence or what they feel about money. The financial industry does not make it easy to understand it, and that financial mentor, not just a mentor in general but someone who we can really be honest with and can tell us things like Mr. Swan did, don't have a lot of debt. The moment you get out of debt is when you really start being financially secure. Things about being careful with your spending, all of these things over time, find a financial mentor.

“I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step” 

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:

So my big one is, don't purchase any snacks on the go when you're thinking about those snacks, those extra drinks. It just adds unneeded calories frankly, and it wastes money, so no snacks on the go.

Very well said. Could you give some examples of the temptations that you pass up on? Was there anything that happened that changed your mind that you had an aha moment about this, or have you always been this way?

In the morning before your commute it's tempting to go buy coffee, tea or snack of your choice. When you're in an airport, walk on by, don't get that stuff and take it on the plane. When it's late at night in a hotel, stay out of the minibar, no potato chips, no chocolate chip cookies. Those are the things that tempt me and I just have to say, "No, I don't need it. It's going to be five extra dollars on my bill and 500 extra calories."

“Mentoring is not about one or two meetings. It is about long term really being consistent and building in .. competence and confidence.”

In My Take you will learn:

Here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one: Find mentors early and often. For Linda, she had one that made a huge difference. That doesn't always happen. For most of us it may be several in different stages of our careers and for different purposes.

When I wrote How to be a Financial Grownup, I went on what I now call my mentor-ter, asking successful people that I admire to just meet with me and talk about themselves. The information that I learned was life-changing and it became the foundation for my book and now this podcast.

Financial Grownup tip number two: Linda's everyday money tip is one of my favorites ever because so many of us, and yeah, I'm looking in the mirror, so many of us cave to those little treats especially when we are traveling. So here's one thing that I've learned to do that at least cuts off one major super unnecessary tip and that is, if you're traveling and you're buying food somewhere, you don't necessarily need to buy that bottle of water. If you're buying something else, it's a little weird if you go up if you're not buying anything else, but if you're already buying food, it's kind of okay to go up to the counter and say, "Oh, can I just get a cup with ice and water?"

Most of the time they're pretty happy to give it to you, and especially if you have a kid with you, forget it, they will definitely do it. So try it. You'll usually save five bucks on a bottle of water that is so unnecessary to pay for.

Episode Links:

• One of my favorite apps: Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They call these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

• www.CliffordSwan.com

• Linda’s book The Business of Family: How to Stay Rich for Generations

• Check out Linda's website - www.LindaDavisTaylor.com

• Follow Linda!

  • LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author and workplace strategist Lindsey Pollack shares a negotiation story with a big twist and a surprise ending. Plus how we often fail ourselves in negotiations by not using simple techniques when putting together deals, and how we can learn to up our game. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

So my money story goes back to before I wrote all those books and had the lovely credentials that you shared. About 10 years ago, I was speaking on college campuses to students about getting jobs and I really wanted to elevate my business to the next level. And so I wanted to connect with a large brand that would help me raise my image and get into the corporate market.

And through a connection of a connection of a connection, I ended up having the opportunity to pitch a major social network. And my pitch to them was that I wanted to run a series of webinars to campus career centers to teach them how to use this social network and get their students to use it for their career success. You can probably guess which network it was.

And I had no platform. I had no reputation. I had nothing to offer. And so what I did -

Let me just ask you, how had you even been connected to them?

I was so set on a couple of different companies wanting to work with that I asked everyone that I knew, "Hey, do you know anyone at this company?" And it took one full year, Bobbi and finally, a friend of a friend worked out in Silicon Valley and said, "I know someone there, I'm willing to make an introduction." So I asked until I finally got a yes.

So you had already invested quite a bit of time and energy in this and a lot of tenacity. Okay. So now you get your moment, keep going.

Okay. So I got my moment and I wrote up a huge fancy proposal that I was really proud of and I thought, "How am I going to price this?" They don't know me. I did not want to do it for free. And so what I did, was I came up with two tiers. I came up with the tier that was a very, very low investment for this company to pay me to start this webinar and run it.

And then I came up with a really, really high number and said, "If I can train 5000 people in two months. If 5000 people signed up to take this webinar in two months, you'll pay me this number." And they agreed to it because they basically had nothing to lose because the first number was really small.

Well I mean you've transferred all of the risk. You're taking on all the risk if the project were to not go well. They basically don't have much at stake. The payment from them would be so small. But of course, you are getting huge reward if it goes well which of course I know it does. But keep going.

It went well. I did everything humanly possible to get 5000 people to sign up for those webinars. And I do want to give credit that I had a very warm introduction. So I think that network and connection really helped. But I worked like crazy to get those people to sign up. I made the number. And the best part of the story is that I continued to work with that company for six more years. So I think by proving myself at the beginning, I was able to start the relationship off right and it truly was a game-changer for my business.

In Lindsey’s money lesson you will learn:

I think there are two lessons. One is to be really clear on what you want and if you get the introduction you want or if you get the opportunity you want, how are you going to turn it into something big. I think a lot of people say they want success or they want to write a book or they want to get their script produced. But once you have the opportunity in front of you, what are you going to do to make sure that you get a yes. And I can't say I knew at the time that this would be such a lesson but it was so empowering to know that I was willing to put everything on the table and work tenaciously, as you said, to get it. So know what you want and really think about how you can get the other side to say yes. Even if it means that you have to put some risk on the table.

You also mentioned the term a warm introduction. Can you talk more about how that came about, how that comes about, how people can get that more, and the importance of the kind introduction that you get? The nuance there.

Absolutely. And Bobbi, you are such a good practitioner of this generously making introductions for people you know and trust. I think that it's really easy to connect with someone today, whether it's on a social network, whether it's sending an email, finding somebody's phone number. That's easy. What's harder is standing out from the crowd. And I think the way to do that is when you have a person, a human being, who knows and trusts you who always knows and is trusted by the person you want to meet.

So I don't think it was just me and my proposal that got that company to say yes. I think it was the fact that someone who they trusted and vouched for me was able to make that introduction. You know we live in a world of a lot of connections but that true trusted connection, I think is more valuable than ever. That to me is a warm connection.

In Lindsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

I am laughing that my money story is about how great of a negotiator I am because it took me so long to learn how to improve my negotiation skills and my best negotiation tip is silence.

So why? We let there be a moment of silence there so everyone could think about that.

Silence is really uncomfortable. And I'm so glad you let that moment linger because it shows how much anyone wants to desperately make that silence go away. And so what I used to do, when I first started out as a speaker or as an author, was say something like, "Bobbi, the price of my speech is $1000." And if there was a nanosecond of silence, I would say, "But if you only want to pay 750 that's okay." Because I was so uncomfortable with the silence.

So letting a number sit there. Asking somebody, even if you're on the phone with your mobile phone provider saying, "Is that the best you can do? Can you offer me a different rate?" We jump in too quickly and say, "Or not, that's okay. Forget it." Letting that silence linger is so hard and has been a huge challenge for me but it is my best money tip to not talk myself down or lose an opportunity to get a better price because I'm not willing to sit with silence.

Can you recall any time that was super effective using that technique? Can you give us an example?

Oh, everyday when I'm negotiating for my business. As I've gotten more successful as a speaker, I've raised my prices. And probably the hardest one to do is to raise a price on an existing valued client. But over time, it's really a necessity to grow your business.

I had to say to someone just the other day, "I've raised my prices by 15%. I know that we've always been at X number. The new number is this." And I so wanted to say, "But if you don't want to pay that's okay." Or, "I know that might be challenging." But I just said it, I let it sit there and the person said, "Okay."

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip number one: Lindsey talked about warm introductions and I could not agree more. But how do you get started? Well the most important thing is to reach out and ask people in your industry or even just friends and family and just casual conversation to tell you more about what they're working on, what their goals are, and lead into how you might be able to help them. Don't be overly aggressive. But be creative. Are there things that you could do? And then follow up. And this is the most important thing. Don't ask them for anything in return.

The crazy thing that I have found is that the people that have come forward on my behalf and made introductions for me, aren't always the ones that I have helped. It's not always linear. In fact, it rarely is. Very often the people helping me are people that aren't necessarily in my closest circles. They're people that I've met through my life that I've stayed in touch with. Maybe a quick email every six months, a quick coffee date once or twice a year. That kind of thing. And just being in touch with them and being considerate of what they're going through and what their needs are, maybe they'll think of you when an opportunity that's appropriate for you comes about. Or maybe they'll be there for you if you want an introduction to someone that they know. Be patient. If you give, you will receive.

Financial Grownup Tip number two: Lindsey's book is so full of great tips for us. She shared a couple, but I wanted to give a little bit more. So here are some other tips from Lindsey.

First of all, if you can work up the courage and feel comfortable and if you don't then get comfortable, do this, work up to this. Ask your boss to CC you on emails even when you don't need to be directly involved. It's going to give you insights into things that are going on in your company beyond your immediate duties, give you a wider perspective.

Lindsey also suggests sending video emails on occasion instead of writing out what you want to say. Just film a quick video and attach it to an email. It can be very effective.

One more final tip: Remix your meetings. Just try sitting in different seats than you usually do and that could actually change the group dynamic and maybe the group think. Come up with some different ideas or just give you a little more energy in your day.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Check out Lindsey's website - www.LindseyPollak.com

• Lindsey's new book The Remix

Follow Lindsey!

• Instagram - @LindseyPollak

• Facebook - @LindseyPollakAuthor

• Twitter - @LindseyPollak

• LinkedIn - @LindseyPollak

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Talesha Carter lost all the money she had at the rodeo with friends. Fortunately she was only 9 years old.  But the money lesson stayed with her and created a money focus that is helping her to serve others.

In Talesha's money story you will learn:

I loved it, yes. I grew up in a small town. Rodeos were a big deal. This particular rodeo was actually down in Salt Lake City area, so about an hour and a half away from where I grew up. This was like the big rigs.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big time.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. It was so much fun. I went there with my friend and her family.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were how old?

Talesha Carter:
I was nine years old. I was a little wee one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Okay, so this is sort of a little bit of independence that you're getting, and your parents gave you, really, your first taste of financial independence, and spoiler alert, you failed spectacularly. Tell us exactly what happened. What did they do? They entrusted you. They said, "Okay, you're a big girl, you're nine years old, we're going to give you this responsibility." What happened?

Talesha Carter:
Yes! So they gave me the money. It was $50, and they told me, "Be very careful with this money. Please don't lose it. We're trusting you that you can be responsible with it." Years before they had started to teach me about saving money and spending money, so I had my little buckets and everything, so I had a pretty good concept. I'm the oldest child, so again they entrusted me that I could do well with it. I was so excited that they would let me have my own money, and therefore I got to have my own wallet to keep the fancy-pantsy money in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're all organized, you've got your money and your wallet, and what were you going to spend it on? What was this money for?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Oh, anything I wanted. It could be food, it could be souvenirs, it could be little outings that we were going to do, because we were also going to be going to Lagoon, which is an amusement park here in Utah. So lots of good things that we were going to be able to use with it, and so I was there, and just having so much fun. I was obsessed with the broncos, and just being able to watch the cowboys there and watching the bull riding, all that. I just was so entranced by it, and had a lot of soda beforehand, and about midway through, I was a little kid. You don't have much bladder control.

So I'm like, "Okay, I've got to go to the bathroom." I remember having this distinct memory of, "Oh, I have to take my money with me. I can't just leave my wallet here on the fence." Then the next thought was, "Oh, I'd better take it with me, because my parents said, 'Always keep your money with you. Don't lose your money.'"

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were being financially responsible.

Talesha Carter:
That's what I thought, yes. As a nine year old. So my friend and I, we went and found the bathroom, and I remembered, I didn't want to put it on the gross dirty floor, so I put it on the back of the toilet seat. I went to the bathroom, came out, washed my hands and everything, and I left it there on the toilet seat. Completely forgot that it was even there. Came back to our seats, we were enjoying the rodeo, and then I just had that sinking pit in my stomach of, "Oh my gosh, where is my wallet?" You know, as a grown up woman now, if you've ever left your purse somewhere and you have that moment of panic, that's what I felt as a nine year old, was that moment of, "Oh my gosh, I've got to go get my money. Where is my money? Where did I leave this money?"

And so we quickly went back to the bathroom, and of course, we went into every single stall, and nothing was there and no one had turned it in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Aw. You went to the lost and found?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes, we did everything to try and find it, and you know, hopefully someone else enjoyed that $50.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's disappointing that somebody did not turn that in to lost and found. I mean, did you have your name on it, anything? As a nine year old, we tend to put name tags on our kids' stuff.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes. You know, I'm sure I probably did, but I don't remember how that was. But I think one of the most disappointing things was that people could be dishonest. And that was a real big gut punch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you left it there, and I get it. That's irresponsible.

Talesha Carter:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lesson when you're nine, but somebody also took it! And that's also a lesson, that if you don't pay attention to your money, someone might take it.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So then from there I had to have that hard conversation and call my mom and dad, and tell them, "Hey, I'm really sorry, but I lost your money." I could hear their disappointment through the phone, but my parents are so amazing and incredible, and they just walked me through it. They said they were disappointed, but that they loved me and it was okay, and we could make that money back, and it wasn't earth-shattering, but I think for me the biggest thing is that nine year old was feeling that guilt that I had lost my parents' hard earned money, and then as well, feeling upset that someone would take it, and then me feeling like, "Oh my gosh, now I'm always going to lose my money."

So especially when I started my own business, that was where I started to see it come through a lot. I've always loved money, but that belief of, "Oh, I'm going to lose this money." So then I got really, I would hold onto it, and I almost created this scarcity mindset with money of, "If I don't keep it with me, or if I'm not tracking it 100% through my bank account, it's going to lose money," or some hacker is going to come on and take it.

So it made me almost shift into that scarcity greedy side of money, instead of just money flows to me easily, side of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And negativity about money, that money is not something that can empower you, it's something that you have to kind of hoard and protect and keep because someone else might take it from you. And that can really weigh on you.

Talesha Carter:
Yeah. It was a huge, that was probably one of the biggest lessons in that, is that I had to be able to let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me.

“I had to be able to  let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me” 

In Talesha’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, so I had to really learn how to identify my money beliefs. One of the ways I like to do that, and what I teach my coaching clients, is to start to look at the money that they have right now, and ask themselves, how do they feel about it? Are you happy? Are you sad? Does this overwhelm you? Does it stress you out?

And then from there, write letters to your money. Identify what your money is trying to tell you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you actually write letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
I do. I do, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you say in your letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
When I was first starting out, it was, "Why do you always leave? Why is there never enough? Why do I feel like any time I make money, it just quickly leaves?" The bills, whatever it is that you have. And so it first started out very negatively, like, "I don't like you. Why do you always leave me?"

Then it has slowly shifted into, "You're pretty awesome. Thank you so much for showing up in my life. This is really cool that I made $100 today by helping out a person, and now I'm going to turn around and utilize this to help my family or another family." Just writing like I would write to my best friend.

“ I had to learn how to identify my money beliefs”

In Talesha's everyday money tip you will learn:

Talesha Carter:
A lot of times we do things electronically, and so I like to cash my money, and put it into cash. And then I carry $100 worth of cash with me, and it's in the range from $2 bills all the way up to $100 bills. From there, I look at it every single day, and I'll say, "Thank you for showing up in my life. How can I help serve another person with this money?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So gratitude.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So much gratitude.

“People could be dishonest and that was a real gut punch” 

Financial grownup tip number one:

Look out for your friends' money and possessions. It would be obvious for me to say, "Keep tabs on your own stuff when you are out and about." That goes without saying. But I'm going to share a story, and I still feel sick to my stomach about it.

I was in London with a friend in college, we were at a restaurant. She went to the ladies' room, and I did not realize it, but she had left her bag somewhere. Maybe it was on the floor, the back of the chair, I wasn't really paying attention.

She hadn't said anything, but I was at the table, and her bag was somewhere. The thing is, I wasn't paying attention. And when she returned, she didn't notice anything either. But when we went to pay the bill, we noticed the bag had disappeared.

I still feel bad. Someone obviously came by and swiped it while she was away, or maybe it was when we were just talking, who knows? The point is, we weren't paying attention. We need to have each others' backs.

Financial grownup tip number two:

You probably won't get a do-over, so come up with a do-next. What are you going to do next time, after something goes wrong.

I want you guys to give it some thought, and when you have time, please DM me and let me know how you have come back from doing something cringe worthy with your money, like leaving your wallet in the bathroom. Because as I said at the top of the show, we all have those moments that we wish we could get a do-over on.

Heads up, everyone. Financial grownups pay attention to the news and learn from it. Here is your shortcut.

Episode/Other Links:

• Talesha's 1-on-1 coaching

• Talesha's Facebook Group- Foster Vitality: Energy Connection

Check out Talesha's website -

www.FosterVitality.com

Follow Talesha!

• Instagram - @FosterVitality

• Facebook - @FosterVitality

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

As a child, Joan Kuhl watched her single mom face severe financial discrimination. She shares the story of how this could have prevented the family from buying a home, and how it inspired her to become an advocate and mentor for women in the workplace. Plus money tips and  a preview of her new book “Dig Your Heels In”.

In Joan's money story you will learn:

• The important role her single mother played in her life

• The reason she felt like her mother was great role model

• Why her mother was charged more money for mortgage as a single parent

• The reason her mother believed it was important to know how to negotiate

“There are so many men that are coming to the table saying I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that is fair.“

In Joan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Know what you deserve

"We’re never going to really achieve this inclusive culture in the workplace if we don’t dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve"

In Joan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How Joan's $200 cash rule can really help you to put your spending into perspective

"They were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was. I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.“

In My Take you will learn:

• You can’t just say “I quit” and make it happen. There’s a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job. So tread carefully before you jump. Also read her book.
  

• Keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others are saying.

Episode Links:

Joan's book Dig Your Heels In can also be bought here on Amazon

Check out Joan's website -

www.JoanKuhl.com

Follow Joan!

• Instagram - @JoanKuhl

• Twitter - @JoanKuhl

• Facebook - @JoanKuhlSpeaker

• LinkedIn - @JoanKuhl
  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joan Kuhl:
I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grownup,” and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there today. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You may want to go back and replay that opening quote, it really happened, and yes, it is unbelievable. Welcome all, and to our new listeners, so glad you found us. Take a minute please, make sure you're subscribed, and say hi on the socials to let me know that you're here, RobbiRebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi on Twitter. Let's get to our guest, John Kuhl. K-U-H-L, Kuhl. She is the founder of "Why Millennials Matter" and the author of "Misunderstood Millennial Talent." Her latest book, which we're going to be talking about, is “Dig Your Heels In,” and when you hear in our interview about the incredible experiences her mom had, that's who she was talking about at the opening of the show, you're going to truly appreciate what a great role model Joan had in her mom and what a great role model Joan is. Here is Joan Kuhl.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Joan Kuhl, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Joan Kuhl:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm excited to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited, because I got a sneak peek at your new book "Dig Your Heels In." You are both a speaker, you're a consultant, you founded "Why Millennial's Matter and also "Courage to Stay," and as I've mentioned, now you've got "Dig Your Heels In", which is really about how to navigate, I don't know, we try to keep the E off the show, so I'm just going to say the corporate BS and build the company that you deserve, which is a book long overdue. I wish, we were talking [inaudible 00:02:19] like I wish I had this book when I had my corporate jobs, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
I know. Well, I'm here now, and so this is to empower the women that are working right now and make sure we pave the way for the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Speaking of next generation, you learned so much from your mom.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. So observing a mom that was really trying to build a better life for us, I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk. So ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait, they charged her more money because she had one income as a single mother, therefore she should pay more?

Joan Kuhl:
Yup. They lobbed on extra points onto her interest, her mortgage rate just because they considered her high risk, and like it was little things like that that I observed. It wasn't until I was older and we had those conversations when I was going after my first job offer and she was really in my corner saying "Negotiate, read everything in details," because I think that's when we started to understand some of the discrimination against women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people don't realize, we take this for granted that as a woman you could own a home, but this was really revolutionary, and I guess that's why they were able to pay, make her pay more. I mean, you talk about the pink tax.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, it's funny, this, a lot of this connects into why I wrote "Dig Your Heels In," even just thinking about the decisions that women make and sometimes feel forced to make because they're in a male dominated situation or a situation ripe with bias, so yeah, of course ... My mother was actually a teacher, and then she became a secre- she had multiple jobs, she was a secretary and she was trying to get an advanced degree, and then she was logging miles to get her pilots license, ultimately to get her in the door to become an air traffic controller, because she was kind of studying these fields that she thought she had the skills to transition into that would give her a higher income, and ultimately triple her income from being an inner city school teacher. So it's just things like that that really inspired me "Okay, well women should be able to go after what we want, but we should also not be pushed out of fields that we love or companies that we work so hard to get in the door of because we're not being paid equally."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and so there's the double irony. So she wasn't able to be paid equally to men, and yet she was being forced to pay more at the time than them. When she had this situation with for example the mortgage, at that time did she have any recourse? Was she able to negotiate at all or was it "If you want a mortgage, this is what it is?"

Joan Kuhl:
"This is what it is." It's funny, and now like I've seen over probably since my early teens, my mom will negotiate anything, even at an Anne Taylor in the mall, with her phone bills, and I think it was because of those experiences where she felt so scared, right? She's got like, even though I saw her as brave and courageous, you have a fear when you're a single parent of like, she just finally got the money to get us into a better home, you know, why would she risk not getting the loan approved just because they were discriminating against her in terms of the rate?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's incredible. So what is the lesson for our listeners from this story? Obviously, first of all always negotiate, but what do you think your lesson would be and what would your mom's lesson be?

Joan Kuhl:
Well, I think it is absolutely know what we deserve, and so I think it is not, sometimes when we are in a situation where we do think somebody might have more knowledge than us, so that's a situation where you're going for a home loan or something, and you think "Oh, well this person has the expertise, they have the credibility, and if they're pushing back on something I'm asking for maybe there's a legitimate reason," I wouldn't let it stop there. I think that's why there's so many amazing organizations right now of women talking to each other. One of the biggest things I've learned from my mom is we have to talk about money. One story I'll quickly share with you, I felt competent negotiation my salary and asking for a higher salary than most people when I graduated from college because of the net my friends that were guys that graduated the year before and were getting recruited by all these big consulting firms, they were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was, but I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's amazing. What kind of reaction did you get when you asked for those higher numbers?

Joan Kuhl:
I will never forget sitting in front of this woman, and it was actually a hotel management company, and I told her and she literally laughed at me. She was so condescending, like she could not believe I had the gall [inaudible 00:06:39]-

Bobbi Rebell:
A woman?

Joan Kuhl:
A woman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, and it happens, right? And I said to her, and I just started spouting off, I'm like "This company, this company, Deloitte, Accenture, Price Waterhouse Coopers, all these companies, and this is the kind of benefits they offer, and I've, I'm in the final rounds of interviews with them too, so I also know I'm the number one candidate for this job." And this is where I always laugh when they say millennials are entitled. I think that anyone that's young that kind of has the [foreign language 00:07:02] to say "This is what I know is the market value, and I'm going to ..." And I already knew that I work my butt off wherever I went, and so I always felt that gave me the confidence to say "Hey, this is what I believe I'm worth," and also "Hi, look how much it costs to go to school these days."

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting, the men will discuss money as a way of bragging, but very often women don't discuss it at all.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, exactly. I even just remember when we were at graduation and my mom was so proud, and my godmother came with her too to my, and I was the speaker at my graduation, huge university, University of Pittsburgh for the College of Business, and a couple of my girlfriends that we were all, had been presidents of clubs and had multiple job offers, our parents were like so excited talking to each other, and we were so embarrassed that they were talking about that we had these jobs, or the amount of money, or what the salaries were, whereas we knew that all the guys around us were like high fiving, they were telling their older brothers, ever- it was just, it's this strange thing that we feel like we have to shrink ourselves versus just talk about something that allows us to really feel on a level playing field.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's I think where men can actually be our partners and our assets, because we are their daughters, their wives, their friends, their girlfriends, their sisters, their nieces and so on, and they want to support us, so I think it's great that you really got support and information from your male friends and classmates to get that better offer, and that's why it's really an issue for everyone, and I think it's important that it be addressed that men can be our best advocates and our best assets in this as well.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, I've [inaudible 00:08:47] a lot of men and allies programs, and healthcare companies and sports companies, and there are so many men that are coming to the table saying "I want, I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be a part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that's fair and access, equally accessible to advancement, anything that we want."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. Let's move on to your everyday money tip Joan, because this is something we can all relate to, but we don't always do, and we should. Go for it.

Joan Kuhl:
So I have this 200 dollar cash rule that kind of by happenstance became a trick that I use, and I think it was because A, I used to realize I never had cash on me all the time, and living in New York City it's a must have, but it also allows me to see where unexpected things come up. So now as a mother, I have a five and a one-year-old, you've got birthday parties, or there's sometimes where, I always try to save and take public transportation, buses and subways, pride myself on that, but I look at the 200 dollar rule, I take it out on the first of the month, like I took it out this morning, and guess what, unfortunately today I got my hair done this morning, so I'm halfway done with that, with-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:09:51].

Joan Kuhl:
[crosstalk 00:09:51] dollars cash. Yeah, but that's the thing, I always say "Okay, this is my barometer of like how well I'm planning for my expenses." It's not like budgeting, but things come up like the birthday gifts or, you know, my daughter needs something extra for an after school activity, or I am like "You know what? I want to go out tonight and I didn't plan for it." So that's kind of my rule, is just looking at where the cash goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really important, because it also gives you an indication if that's how fast your actual cash is going, which can feel more painful, think how much is going that's sort of just automated in your life, that's being sucked out of your bank accounts for all of this bills, which we should automate of course, but we don't really feel it the same way. At least with the cash you're feeling it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book "Dig Your Heels In." So important. I feel like this is sort of the next wave. We had "Lean In," and that made sense to a lot of people at that time, but now you've really hit on something that is so important. "Dig Your Heels In," really, it's a metaphor, but it's not, it's literal too to a large degree. I love a quote from the book that you say, "By leaving your company are you running away from something or running towards something? Are you jumping ship because you just 'can't deal any longer,' or is the new opportunity something that really excites you and fulfills your career ambition?" Because sometimes, there's a lot of running away Joan, there really is.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. And I always say digging your heels in is a personal decision, and so I am in no way, shape or form telling everyone to grin and bear it if your situation's toxic, but the majority of the time the women that I have met over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of women around the world for global research projects, you get backed into a corner, and I think sometimes the sexy thing in popular culture right now is to get a bigger title, or a bigger promotion, or more money if you jump and ghost ship, or that the only way to advance is to be a girl boss and start your own thing, but the truth is you have so much equity in where you are right now and so much opportunity to really transform that company, and taking stock, taking a deep breath, really thinking about those ah-ha moments, what is really frustrating you there and how can you turn that into fuel and really disrupt the status quo? We're never going to, I think really achieve this inclusive culture and workplace if we don't dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also point out in the book that we think that we're the only ones feeling a certain way, but you interviewed the very highest achieving female executives who look, their lives look perfect on the outside, and as you got to know them and as they opened up to you these top executives were barely surviving rather than thriving as you perceived them to be.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, that threw me completely for a loop. I was so naive in my mindset thinking they were living this glamorous career, personal and professional lives, and to really hear their battle scars of what they had gone through and they endured taught me a lot about sometime that dynamic between women at work in different generations, but also that we still have so much work to do. I interviewed Reece Witherspoon a couple months ago who also told me that she has bouts with imposter syndrome. I mean, it's Reece Witherspoon. So one of side of this is the self limiting mindset that we can figure out how to overcome, and some of that is pushed on us because of bias in the system and around us, but the other side of it is the system's broken, and I think that's why we need to identify some tactical ways to change it, and that's why I want "Dig Your Heels In to be a real playbook that shows examples of women doing just that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because you have a lot of these broad strokes, you have a lot of really important statistics in this book, but you also interview women and give very specific stories that are relatable to all of us, and we see ourselves in that and there's a lot of value in that, so I really hope everyone will pick up "Dig Your Heels In." So Joan, just to wrap up tell us where people can get the book and hear more about you and be in touch with you, your socials, all that good stuff?

Joan Kuhl:
Awesome. So I have a brand new website, JoanKuhl.com J-O-A-N K-U-H-L. "Dig Your Heels In," we have a fantastic website that's DigYourHeelsIn.com and the book is sold everywhere books are sold, so Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, you name it. If you order it and you go and enter your information on my website you will get a ton of free resources that I developed as things that are master classes on work and life hacks and some great jumpstart your career guides. And on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook I'm @JoanKuhl as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
Thanks, Bobbi. I love talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right my friends, here's my take. Financial grown up tip number one, I want to address something that Joan alluded to, but we didn't really get to explore fully, and that is that we are having a cultural moment where we really glorify the idea of the entrepreneur, of being the boss babe and so on. We hear so many stories about being a boss, and changes in cultural norms and in technology do allow a lot more entrepreneurship, but don't be fooled. There is no paycheck coming every two weeks, at least not for a long time for most entrepreneurs, and of course there's that healthcare thing, and you can't just say "I quit" and just instantly have a business. There are a lot of things that go on in order to have a successful business, and it rarely is an overnight success. There are usually years of hard work behind the scenes that you don't hear about when you read these articles of what seems like overnight successes. So it's important that you acknowledge and understand that as Joan talks about, there are a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job as well. You can be an intrapreneur, which means you sort of build little businesses within a company, but with the company's support, which includes of course that ongoing paycheck and that financial security of a job. So tread carefully before you jump, and also of course read Joan's book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others of both sexes are saying. That can be in person and it can also be maybe in chat rooms online, it can be being part of a mastermind group or even on social media platforms, for example Facebook Groups and so on. It's a cliché for a reason, information is power.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you all enjoyed spending time with us today, now I need your help. Please make sure you are subscribed, and if you have friends or colleagues that you think will enjoy these interviews and these podcast episodes with, for example amazing role models like Joan, please encourage them to subscribe as well, and of course ratings and reviews are gold to us, we appreciate every single one. Big thanks to "Dig Your Heels In" author Joan Kuhl for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Bobbi reveals her new partnership with the podcasting legend,  shares the behind the scenes intel on how it all happened, plus Joe gets honest about how his plastic shoe habit almost derailed his financial career. 

 

In Joe’s money story you will learn:

-Joe’s penny pinching philosophy- and how it backfired

-The impact of getting a gig on local tv

-Joe’s off-base take on how to develop trust in clients

 

In Joe’s lesson you will learn:

-The true cost of plastic shoes

-Why your co-workers may not tell you the truth

-How to avoid some of Joe’s mistakes

-How Joe invested in fixing his image problem, and increased his wealth

-Ways to get feedback on not just your career but also other aspects of your life

 

In Joe’s money tip you will learn:

-How to delegate one person to be the lead family financial manager

-What Joe refers to as ‘fantasyland'

-The one thing Joe does that avoids fighting about money in his family

-How to spot mistakes in your bills

 

In my take you will learn:

-The value of investing in your personal appearance

-What Kevin O’Leary had to say about investing in quality clothing and accessories

-How I have been burned by low quality purchases as fast fashion stores

-Why renting clothing can be a viable option that may work for your budget

-The importance of constantly upgrading your skills through education including online courses. 

 

Episode links:

Mint

Clarity Money

Moneylion

Udemy

Rent the Runway

 

Follow Joe Saul-Sehy!

 

Joe’s course How to legally cheat on your taxes

Joe’s money in the mornings show on facebook

Joe’s Facebook group

 

Money in the Morning podcast

Stacking Benjamins podcast

 

Twitter: @averagejoemoney

Facebook: Facebook.com/stackingbenjamins

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. This episode is all about investing in yourself. Whether it comes to your wardrobe or your education as you hear and will hear more from our guest Joe Saul-Sehy is the host of the crazy popular award winning Stacking Benjamins podcast. I don't have time to list all of the awards it has won but they include Best Business Podcast from the Academy of Podcasters, and Best Finance Podcast by Kiplinger. They also win a lot of these Plutus Awards among others.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're going to really like Joe's story. If you're a good dresser you're going to feel validated for spending all that time, effort and money. If you're not such a good dresser, I hope you're going to get motivated. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe Saul-Sehy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I can't believe I made it here. I must be a grownup if I made it here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You must, and you're up early these days. We're going to talk more about it later, but congratulations on the launch of Money In The Morning. It's awesome, and I love the music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you. We picked it out just for you Bobbi. That's our whole thing, if we can win with Bobbi we win with everybody, so there we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's happy music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is happy music, and I need happy music with coffee in the morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've evolved a lot in your grownup life, but there was a time, and we're leading into your money story here Joe, when you were a bit of a cheapskate. It wasn't just affecting you, it was really affecting your whole universe. Do tell.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I was a financial planner for 16 years. During that time I was teaching people how to pinch pennies and cut corners where they could. I thought, "You know, I really should take my own advice." I learned a valuable lesson here because people come to see you and they expect a certain type of person, but at the time I didn't think about that. I thought, "You know what? I'm in my office all day. I'm never out of my office." When I am, I started doing a television gig in Detroit at WXYZ Channel Seven, go Detroit. Even when I did that, people didn't see my shoes. So I went from really nice shoes-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well people that were watching you on camera did not see your shoes.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
People watching me on television didn't see my shoes. People that I interfaced with on a daily basis, they did, and my clients did. So I went from these really nice shoes that I had to these plastic shoes. You know, the shoes that buy at-

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know about plastic shoes Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Of course you don't. Like a Payless shoes. I would go there and I'd find these shoes that looked nice, but they looked like they were polished but they really were just plastic-y. For about a year, I for those. I dumbed down my suits, I wore cheaper ties. I thought, "People trust me, they like me. I don't need to spend a lot of money on this stuff." And then I realized that everything that I was doing was wrong one day, when I finally bought some new shoes and I went to my mentor's office, and the very first thing he said Bobbi, I walk in he said, "It's about time you got rid of those cheap shoes."

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I said, "What are you talking about? I've had those for a year. How come you didn't tell me?" He goes, "Well, I just thought you'd find out sooner or later by yourself." So I realized then that everyone notices. Then when I hired a firm to help me look better on TV, because I also-

Bobbi Rebell:
You hired someone.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're really investing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Yes, because I realized from the shoes, I realized I kind of have to invest in my career, and then I realized how bad everything was. The very first thing that the firm said that I hired, they said, "Well, we need to give you a big boy haircut." Because I was still wearing this haircut that I had from college, this is back when I had hair. They changed my look to be a more sophisticated haircut, to be shorter, to be more conservative, to look the part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They went with me shopping for clothes to show me how I could still spend less money on clothes, but I had to dress much more smart. I had to be trust ... and it's funny how that changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part. I don't know about you Bobbi, I don't trust people who look too good, people that are dressed to the nines. For whatever reason I don't trust them, but that doesn't give you an excuse to not dress appropriately, and I guess even to widen it, to take responsibility for your career. We have to take responsibility for this thing that we call a career and make it our own?

Bobbi Rebell:
Expending on that, what is the lesson for our listeners from the story?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I think the big lesson is don't wait for somebody else to give you this feedback about your career. Look in the mirror, and not just in the physical aspects like I was, but look in the mirror when it comes to your relationships with your family, with your relationship with money, with your relationship with your job. It's far easier, everybody wants to pinch pennies, it's far easier to go make a lot more money that it is to pinch pennies. It's funny, we might be able to save 50 cents or a dollar, but we could make $100 this week if we just looked outside ourself and went looking. I mean, there are so many job opportunities online, there are so many things to do. Look in the mirror and take responsibility for yourself was something that I learned that day that I try to teach other people now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And grow the top line.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Grow the top line, amen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a money tip, something personal that you and your family do that people can maybe make their own and do right away.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I just said, focus on the top line Bobbi, but I also look at the bottom line. Because if we can stretch the difference between the two of those, then that's where we experience growth. In a lot of families what I noticed is that one person in the family, like you have a budgeting partner, a spouse, a significant other, one person usually knows where every dollar is, every dime is. The other person's in a place I refer to as fantasy land. They think they know, they have this general feeling, but they also know the other person's taking care of it.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's when fights begin. That's when bad things happen in a relationship, it's because the person in fantasy land all the sudden realizes the fantasy doesn't look the way they thought that it should have, so there ends up being friction. To avoid friction, something that Cheryl my spouse, and I implemented and that I like to teach people how to do, is just have a quick weekly meeting. Maybe 15 minutes over breakfast, or I prefer over wine.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the evening, not wine at breakfast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's wine, iHop, you're probably [crosstalk 00:07:10]

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I'm not judging but you know.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's right, good for somebody but maybe not me. The thing I like about this weekly meeting though is it's quick, it's actually fun. We look through ... I use an app called Clarity Money but you can Mint, you can use MoneyLion. There's lots of apps out there. You could even just use a spreadsheet or look through, go to your bank website and take a look at what expenses you had. It's very easy, here's the way we do it. We look through all the upcoming expenses. What are we going to spend money on in the next week? We talk through that. Then the second thing we do is we look at the previous week's expenses and we see if there were any mistakes on any of our bills. What's funny is, we find so many mistakes. It's horrifying how many-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're never in your favor.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They never ever ... It's amazing that none of them ... Yeah, isn't that shocking. Yeah, business is always taking from me. And then also look for recurring expenses that you don't need anymore. I found just a couple weeks ago that there's been a recurring meeting, because we miss meetings from time to time and I must have missed it the last two years in a row. There's a Norton subscription that I've had for the last two years that I don't have hooked up to anything. That's a $100 a year for this subscription. It was really ... Luckily I caught it. I was able to get back this year, I can't go back and get the year before that, but have that money refunded to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, which also is cool. But the best thing is, Cheryl and I now go through the week and we know where the dollars are going to be spent. If things change we've got this open line of communication. I've got to tell you, it's so fun. The weekly meeting is so fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. And you know what's really fun? Is spending less on your taxes. I have a CFP, but I have to tell you, especially because I got the CFP before the new tax law was passed. I find it a little bit overwhelming, but you have out that can help a little bit.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. Thanks for mentioning this, because we were going to call this, Bobbi, we were going to call it Understanding The Tax Form, but that sounds so boring. It just sounds so-

Bobbi Rebell:
I would want that. I would do that one, but maybe not other people.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
[crosstalk 00:09:10] Yeah, you and I are money nerds so that's great. But here's what somebody did with me, this is the genesis of the course. I thought taxes were kind of mystical and I would ask people, "Can I write this off? Is this something that maybe I can take advantage of? Is this taxable? Is this not taxable? How does it all work?" Somebody sat down with me and walk through the 1040 and how the 1040 works, and then the itemized deductions page and how that works.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Once I knew that, and what's cool is it's only three pages, once we walked through that I totally then could see what I could write off, what I couldn't write off, where my opportunities might be, how my retirement plan fit into the big picture, what the downsides might be in the future, what tax problems I might have in the future. We call the course How To Legally Cheat On Your Taxes, and it is a lot of fun. It's a do at your own pace course. It teaches you how taxes work. You can do two things. Number one, put Humpty Dumpty together, like right now during tax season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, it's coming.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Put things together- Yeah, put things together in a way that helps. But that's not where the magic is. I think the real magic is doing things through the year so that when you're trying to put Humpty Dumpty together next year, you're able to do that much, much better because you knew how taxes worked going in. I think that the powerful thing. That's the reason we created it, was to try to get people that same leg up that I got.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Where can people find that? And where can people find you? I know Facebook in the morning, it's fascinating people. You can him do Money In The Mornings on Facebook and you can see how everything is made.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's so-

Bobbi Rebell:
Including the bloopers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. I was going to say, it's so uncomfortable because ... and I did it live on Facebook to try to force myself to do ... We talked earlier about taking responsibility for your career. One thing I do, I'm a natural stutterer, and do try to get around stuttering-

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes, and to make myself more natural on camera and try to get used to that. I started doing these daily Facebook Lives and say, "You know what, we're going to do this show without a net." So Money In The Morning is without a net, five days a week, wherever you're listening to this show. We just do two quick headlines. It's live, and man sometimes bad stuff happens. Which I think some people listen to it just to hear the car wreck.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right. Just to hear some of the bad stuff that sometimes happens, because you can't take it back if it's live.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. All right, so where can people find you and the course and everything?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, yeah. That's wherever you listen to this podcast, is where you can find Money In The Morning or Stacking Benjamins, our main show. The course is at learn.stackingbenjamins.com, that course, and we have a couple others, Save 50% Of Your Income and a quick hit course on your benefits package, so when you are going through open enrollment every year. Just a very quick, like, "What do I need to remember while I'm doing my open enrollment?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Where can people find you social media before we go?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I am @AverageJoeMoney on Twitter, stop by and say hi. On Facebook it's facebook.com/istackbenjamins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, thank you so much.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thanks Bobbi. This was so fun. I'm so happy that I'm finally a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are. Congratulations Joe. Here is my take on what Joe had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one, wear quality clothing. This is something that previous guests Kevin O'Leary touched on as well with respect especially to his mother. Not only is it important to look your best in business, but you often come out financially ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get tempted like everyone by the fast fashion places. I always get burned. I buy a sweater for 20 bucks, it looks identical to the one for 200 in the department store, so I think I'm really smart. But then, after a couple of wearings, it's trash. I'm going to let you guys in on an open secret. Notice that I said wear quality clothing. I did not say buy. If you come see me speak, I am often wearing a very expensive designer dress that I don't own. It's rented. The designer handbag I'm carrying, you got it, probably rented. That way I get the benefits of always showing up in a well made dress without having to constantly invest in buying expensive clothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, always keep learning. Joe talked about education, so whatever interests you or will further your career, get better at it. If you work for a big company, always find out what they will pay for. My first employer, CNBC, paid for my CFP classes. There are also incredible online resources from LinkedIn to Udemy, even Investopedia has great online classes. In fact many top universities are putting their classes online and you can often audit them for free. Make yourself smarter, it will probably pay off for you financially, but you'll also probably enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. It's amazing. Please, follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on everything going on with the show. I hope you enjoyed Joe's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by [Steve Stuart 00:14:28] and is a BRK Media production.

Reality TV can be a job- but it often doesn’t pay like one. To film The Bachelorette and later Bachelor in Paradise Derek Peth had to take a break from his paying job in commercial banking. That’s where his emergency fund savings became the star of the show. 

Derek's money story:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so glad that you're here and so many of your fans are going to be tuning are going to be blown away by what they learn about you, because you're so well known as one of the ... first of all you were on The Bachelor on the JoJo season.

Derek Peth:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did not apparently live happily ever after with her. But you went on to more success on Bachelor in Paradise season four. And you even now continue a side hustle, which we'll talk about, host a podcast about Bachelor in Paradise and The Bachelor. But we're here because, and this got by the way this announcement of what you're doing now got over 16 thousand likes on Instagram. We're here to talk about what you do for a living right now, which is you are in the financial services sector. You are a Senior Vice President at Laurel Road. So congratulations on this career path as well.

Derek Peth:
Thank you. This is the original career path. Speaking of side hustle, I think that's kind of what The Bachelor became for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Derek Peth:
Hey, more opportunities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And you're stilling doing that. We're going to circle back to that, but I want to talk about your money story because what you're going to share with us is something that is, on the one hand unique to you and the people that are on reality TV shows, but also very relatable to almost anyone that has ever dreamed of taking a break from their quote, real career, their everyday job. And asking our boss for a sabbatical so that they can do something, maybe a dream, maybe an opportunity for an interesting experience. Maybe financial opportunity down the road. But that's what happened to you. You were working, all of how many years ago? Four years ago maybe?

Derek Peth:
Yeah I think it was about four-ish years ago. I was working in commercial banking as a sales role down in Florida at the time. And actually it's a funny story how it all originally happened because I wasn't ready for it. I didn't signup or anything, I was very focused on my career, and I thought it was a prank call from a radio station at first. I made them email me, and I researched them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. How did they find you? I just assumed people apply to be on these shows. You just get this call.

Derek Peth:
I know. My sister signed me up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Derek Peth:
I didn't figure it out until three weeks later when finally I ... because I had been kind of quiet about it and then finally I was like, "Hey did you happen to sign me up for The Bachelor ever?" And boom. There we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
She didn't tell you? Oh my gosh.

Derek Peth:
No. Her friends watch the show and it was like they all got around the computer and sent my photos and information in. But when I started thinking about this, it was like this is one of those opportunities that are once in a lifetime that can change the course of your life completely. And luckily, my mom has put self-help books in front of me my whole life, and I've been very, always interested in making sure that things were setup so that ... I ran some marketing businesses on the side when I was younger. I had a nice foundation of rental income incoming constantly that put me in a situation where I was like, "You know what? I don't necessarily need to have this job." While I enjoy what I'm doing, and I have a great relationship with my boss at the time. He really tried and he was like, "Listen, you're a sales role."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well what happened? Can you go in and say, "Hey I'm going to be on a reality TV show can I have a sabbatical of I don't know how long?" How does it work?

Derek Peth:
Exactly. I called him up. I said, "Hey I really need to have a side conversation that needs to be pretty quiet because there's some legal matters." And he was freaked out so he called me right away. But the legal matter was that I couldn't really discuss what the situation was with a bunch of people. And I just said, "I don't know. It could be one week that I'm gone, it could be eight weeks, 10 weeks." That's how long they tape for, and you have no idea going in. He went back and he reached out to HR and they tried to figure something out, but in the end, the response was basically, "This is a little too much of an ask right now, Derek. The only option is, if you want to do this you have to leave and quit, or you can keep working here. And call us back afterwards." The truth is, there's no chance on us just putting and eight week paused on your role.

Derek Peth:
Like you said, I saw it as a sabbatical of sorts, because there was that open end coming back, which I built from working by butt off in my job. And I built that foundation that I could really use to support my living without a normal income by working my butt off on the side. And again, I think there's a lesson there that really gives you the opportunity to do some unique and different things sometimes in life that we all dream and talk about, but when you're forcing yourself into the bare minimums, that's where I think, like I said, luckily I've had some of that literature in front of me my whole life and it was just pounded in my head, "Make sure you have enough income to live for a full year with what you're doing."

Bobbi Rebell:
You had a full year of income saved?

Derek Peth:
I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do people support themselves on these shows? Do you get paid to be on, do you get paid more if you last longer on the show? How does it work?

Derek Peth:
Some of those work that way. The actual Bachelor, Bachelorette, the first one there's no income from it, but the second show that I did that you talked about, it works that way where it's a per day payment situation. And so, it depends on what show you're talking about. Obviously, as we both know, the Instagram ad game has become I think the goal for a lot of people after that. And that's where the supporting themselves, and being a public figure offers some cool opportunities to do some travel where, if you're going and doing speaking somewhere or just doing an event anywhere, a lot of times there's free travel or the event itself, I should say, takes care of the travel and the accommodations. It is a unique situation. It's a little bit different than having to jump on Spirit because you're flying all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
But people going on these shows are not necessarily paid. There are costs involved, and you often lose your income. I don't know that people really understand that.

Derek Peth:
Yes. And that's why a lot of the people end up on the show, I think, are entrepreneurs. When you really think about it, there's business people and some small business owners a lot of the time, and it's because they have the flexibility to do that, they don't have this fear of having to jump of a cliff with their job, because it's scary thing. Not to mention just the nature of the United States these days. I don't know the exact numbers, but the cost of college has quadrupled or more in the last few years, and when you really look at that and compare that to what you come away with, and what you need, we have to have that income in order to just survive, right? Just the environment itself has made it so hard for people to jump out and do anything unique like this without cutting away, and living at home, and dodging their student loans.

Derek’s money lesson:

I think that rule is so important for people to live by. Instead of focusing on how do I get to the next paycheck, you got to focus on a rule, a separate goal. And that maybe 5% of their income for some people, 10% of their income. That's a conversation, especially if there's relationships, there's other situations that come in, but instead of maxing out what you're making, there needs to be savings goal and then a long-term goal of course. One of my favorite sayings is, how do you eat the elephant? One bite at a time. You have your big goal, but then one little step at a time, each month, each week, you're saving that money away, and that's how you, I think, create that foundation to give you the opportunity to go and do some different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also because as much as these kinds of ventures can create opportunity, at the end of the day, you're not an actor.

Derek Peth:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have a normal life to some degree. It will never be quite as normal again, and you're still doing a lot of Bachelor related things, but you have an actual job.

Derek Peth:
There's a few very successful individuals. No different than professional sports. Honestly every aspect of business and any job in and of itself has high performers, and medium as well. But a lot of people in that quote, medium performance, which of course relates to how many Instagram followers you have now. But they really butt their head up against the wall and get sucked into this life with these hopes and aspirations without the understanding that it does take the work no different than your job to do some hustling, to make connections, to call people, to set things up for yourself. They do the bare minimum, and sometimes that's nice for a little while, but I mean, I think the people who have been very successful with taking this opportunity that The Bachelor presents you with and have treated it like a job. You see some of those folks who previously had jobs.

Derek Peth:
I have a great example from my season. Wells, great example. They were high performers in what they were doing already. And they pivoted everything into, all right, this is my new side gig. I can just take the same lesson I learned from working hard and taking care of business in my day-to-day life and apply it to this new opportunity.

Derek's everyday money tip:

My money tip, especially for millennials like myself is, first and foremost, within the marketplace we're in, there's an urgency to refinance your student loans. We ourselves we save over $20 thousand, on average, for people who refinance their loans, when you look at the life of their loans. I think knowing your rate in the first place is a great place to start. A lot of people, a lot of my friends even when I started working at Laurel Road they didn't even know what their rate was. And I started talking to them about the opportunities and they were just mind-blown at how much they could save each year.

I don't mean that facetiously. They were shooting, kicking themselves saying, "Hey, I'm an idiot. I haven't been looking at this. I didn't even know that. Here I am complaining about my income, and I could have saved it just by going online, doing a little bit of research." And to all those millennials out there, or anyone else who's recently gone through school and still has those student loans, go refinance them. There's no cost. It's very quick. I'm going to say, go check out Laurel Road's website because we are, I think, the best at this, but across the board, that's the number one thing we need to be doing.

Financial grownup tip number one:

Emergency funds aren't just for when bad things happen. In this case, a really amazing thing happened, a once in a lifetime opportunity. Literally life-changing experiences, and Derek had the financial resources available to cover up to a year. So when he was on The Bachelorette, not a lot of financial stress. And then even more fun on Bachelor in Paradise. And by the way, did I mention he hosts The Bachelor podcast, which is strangely addicting, even though I don't even know all the people that Derek, and Kay his co-host, are talking about. Don't be judgey. Derek has had a great ride. And I'm not saying that I know anything, or that Derek told me any upcoming projects, maybe when we kept talking after we stopped taping. But you want to stay tuned to what Derek is up to. Follow him on all the socials, and keep tabs on him at Laurel Road.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I joked with Derek about being judgey. We can all get judgey, myself included, about productivity, and joke that if we spend all day watching Netflix, or whatever, on Instagram, on our social media channels, we're not going to be building our businesses, our personal brand empires or whatever our goals are. So yes, we have to be mindful of our time. Go listen to the Laura Vanderkam episode for tips on that, by the way. But you know what, I really enjoyed Derek and his cohost on The Bachelor podcast. And the Bachelor shows are really fund. If that's your thing, enjoy it. Like all indulgences, chocolate, try to keep it under control. Maybe do a Bachelor in Paradise marathon over the holidays with your friends, get it out of your system for a little bit, then be more productive in the new year. Enjoy it. Don't feel bad. It's all good. And then of course, come back and listen to all the good advice here on Financial Grownup to get your finances in order for the new year.

Episode Links:

• Derek’s website - Laurel Road

• The Betchelor podcast

• The Bachelor

• The Bachelorette
  

Follow Derek!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Want to learn more about productivity? Click Here to listen to our episode with "Off the Clock" Author @LauraVanderkam

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Soon after Christine Armstrong’s husband took a company buyout and launched a family vacation business, the executive and new mother found herself in an intolerable job situation and quit to start her own business- resulting in a double dose the challenges of startup life. 

In Christine's money story you will learn:

• Being miserable in your job isn't worth the money

• Why Christine and her husband went from having two good paying jobs to not having any set income to rely on and how they made it work

• By being curious how other parents were balancing work life and home life, she started interviewing them, which led to the inspiration of her book - The Mother Of All Jobs

In Christine’s money lesson you will learn:

• How little you can spend when you really put your mind to it

• Be conscious of how much you are spending on childcare and figure out a way to best balance that expense with your work life

In Christine's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to be more eco-friendly with your gifting over the holidays, and save money

• How to teach your children the benefits of gifting second hand goods and why they should be proud of it and not hide it

• Where to find the best high quality second hand goods for yourself, and for gifting

In My Take you will learn:

• Don’t spend the time stressing about the money. It is gone. Move on psychologically and just do better next time

• Keep your fixed costs low

Episode Links

Check out Christine's website - www.christinearmstrong.com
Link to buy Christine's book on Amazon - Mother Of All Jobs
Link to Ebay.com

Follow Christine!

• Linked In

• Twitter

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Christine:
What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, have you ever heard the acronym DINKS? D-I-N-K-S. Double income, no kids, usually used in the context of couples that have a capital F for fabulous lifestyle. How about if that was now double startup, two kids. That is where Christine Armstrong, author of The Mother of All Jobs, and her husband found themselves, and let me tell you, there was drama with a capital D. Spoiler alert though, they survived, but they lived to tell the tale and we get to benefit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone, if you are new, so glad you found us. If you have a sec, do a screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me so I can welcome you personally to our Financial Grownup community. The show stays around fifteen minutes because you're busy, but feel free to binge listen to a few if you have a little more time. We now have a library of more than 100 amazing high achievers sharing their stories and lessons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's get right to it. Here is Christine Armstrong. Hey Christine Armstrong, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Christine:
Thanks so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on you're new in the US book. It's already been a huge hit in the UK where you are called, The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. Emphases on the ish, right?

Christine:
Yeah, totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have managed to stay sane in an extraordinary circumstance where both you and your husband found yourself in startup mode. Tell us your money story.

Christine:
So I had a lovely job at an advertising agency and I traveled all over the world and presented work. When I had a baby, I came back to the ad agency, but the boss had changed and they were offering me different terms and I kind of panicked and I took another job, which wasn't a great fit for me. It was a really heavy [inaudible 00:02:56] culture and I was really kinda stressed. It wasn't a great place for me anyway, but it particularly wasn't a great place with a small baby.

Christine:
But I felt I couldn't leave because while I had been on maternity leave, my husband, who'd been eighteen years at his company, was offered a big package to leave and he was like "Look, I really wanna take it, I wanna startup this business." I was like "Okay, yeah. That'll be fine, great idea."

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would have the steady income.

Christine:
Right, 'cause I was just gonna go back to my job. It never occurred to me that I would want to stop or do less work. That kind of career was what I did. My job at the ad agency, they were really senior women who had families, and that seemed to be what they had done and it was fine.

Christine:
So we found ourselves in a situation where I was really unhappy at work and he was with the startup, which is a travel company called [inaudible 00:03:40] as you know with a startup, you don't make money immediately, so he wasn't making money, but we still needed quite a lot of childcare, because also, he wasn't home being just a parent and I was working really hard, but quite frustrated. So, I kind of was looking for answers in what I thought I could do to kinda make things better. I decided that I would have another baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Christine:
Of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because that will solve everything.

Christine:
In my mind ... you know, they say when you are really stressed, you start making really bad decisions and you can only see things in black and white. I was just like, I got to get out of here and I've got to take time to think, so I had another baby, which was great, but it obviously didn't solve my problems at work. Then I went back to work and it was still really, really difficult. So I decided to go and interview women about how they made it work, and some men as well. That was really where the book came about.

Christine:
During this process of interviewing these amazing people and understanding what I needed to do, I had lunch with a really old friend who's a therapist. We were in this café and I just talked at her for 45 minutes. She looked at me and she said "Look darling, just go. Go back to the office, get your coat and go home." I said "You're insane. I've got a mortgage, I've got childcare, [inaudible 00:04:58] is making no money." She's like "Yeah, but it'll be fine, just give it to the universe." I'm laughing at the word-

Bobbi Rebell:
The universe does not pay your bills.

Christine:
No, no. So, I didn't take her advice. I didn't literally go back to the office and resign, but I went home that evening, I said to my husband "Jill says I should resign" and he says "Yeah, I think you should, you're so unhappy, it'll be fine." So I did and then ... in the UK, you get three months notice. So I had three months of pay, so I kind of had three months to sort things out. During that period, we booked an amazing trip of a lifetime to go visit my sister in Thailand.

Christine:
Basically, the first thing I did with no income whatsoever was get on a plane to Thailand and go stay in five star hotels, but my sister had booked me where breakfast costs like $50 a person. Chris and I just kind of got fits of hysterical giggles and weren't really sure what to do or how to make it stop, because it was all pre-planned. Chris was like "Okay, the only thing we can do is just to enjoy it and then we'll deal with stuff when we get back."

Bobbi Rebell:
So basically, so now, you're gonna start your own business as an author, because you've got this book in progress. Your husband is at this business, which spoiler alert, is doing great now, but was at its early stages and you're living a lifestyle that needs two incomes from steady jobs to support.

Christine:
Well, I would say that that was our saving grace actually. I think we were really fortunate that my husband bought a house a long time ago, so actually, when we came back from Thailand and were like "Okay, let's just clear the decks. We've gotta lose every piece of spending that we have that is not essential." What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time, from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back. What we were astounded by, we really worked together on it, we were really focused on it. We went from shopping in the equivalent of Whole Foods to the discount aisle at the discount supermarket.

Christine:
We were just astonished actually how little you could spend when you really, really put your minds to it. Having been massively complacent, it has to be sad. So, we just stripped out all spending and twiddled everything back and basically rebuilt from there. So I didn't immediately start a business. I freelanced for a while and then I met a guy called Robert Phillips who had it in his mind an idea of a consultancy he wanted to set up and was really inspirational.

Christine:
I joined up with a group of people and we started a consultancy that's been really successful and it's given us a great and stable income and allowed us to compensate. But it really took nearly a year for us to sort all of that out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Christine:
So my takeaway, the thing that Chris and I have taken a run through our lives is to keep your fixed cost as low as you can, so that you've always got the flexibility to [inaudible 00:07:55]. We were saved by the fact that we didn't have an expensive car policy, we didn't have kids who have expensive childcare, we don't have kids in expensive schools now. We keep the baseline really low so that we can scale up or down according to what we've got available.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what you learned really, is that a lot of these expenses that were just part of your life, you weren't really thinking about. It was pretty easy to just say goodbye to them.

Christine:
It really was. I do totally take responsibility for having previously been compulsive, but we both had good jobs, we both got promoted pretty regularly, our incomes have got bigger and we just really assumed that they would just continue to get bigger. We just really were very thoughtless about A, the impact of childcare and how much money that is. And B, how you often also lose one or half a salary and we managed to lose two salaries, which I think was quite an achievement when you have kids.

Christine:
I think my other big learning is ... as well as keeping your expenses as low as they can be in terms of core expenses, but also to be really thoughtful about what your childcare costs are gonna be and how you can organize work when you've got kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Another big expense with children is the holiday season and all this gift giving that goes on, which brings us to your everyday money tip.

Christine:
Yeah, I'm really interested in the circular economy which is reusing things and not keeping ... making new stuff. I really try and use second buy, second hand things, whether it's books, toys, looking on Ebay for things and getting the kids used to the idea that a gift is a gift, even if it's secondhand. I think that you can still give things to people they really care about, without spending as much money as you might have done.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not hiding the fact that it is secondhand, actually making that part of the conversation.

Christine:
Yeah, absolutely. I think being proud of it, you know, mixing something up. My husband's great at re-painting stuff or making it look better and being really proud of it and saying "I found this in a secondhand shop and I thought you'd really like it" that's okay.

Christine:
What I find is that strangely, people are quite excited that you went through the trouble to go look for it for them and if you fixed it up and made it look nice, than great. Embrace it, enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well one thing that I enjoyed was your book which is called The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. And as I joked at the beginning, emphasis on the ish. One of the great things about it, is that it's very real. You have some very relatable and specific stories. You did a lot of work interviewing people here.

Christine:
I did. I started off with those interviews I mentioned with really senior women who were very high fly. Then, I kind of went for the book to lots of really, really ordinary women, doing ordinary jobs who are never gonna be Chief Exec. Probably never gonna be on the board and just working to pay their bills, basically. To really understand the dynamics of their relationship, their kids, schools and just try to figure out how it all works together and how their solving problems and what works and what doesn't.

Christine:
There are no quick fixes, right? You look at each [inaudible 00:10:55], you go "What can I take from that that's useful? What's relevant to me right now?" That's the way it's set up.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the book has said it really smartly, in that it is bite-sized. You could read the whole thing, of course, but you could read it little by little and there are sections, breakout sections that are titled "If you are too tired and read the above" which kind of gives us the executive summary, because you're realistic about how busy parents schedules are.

Christine:
That's good also, 'cause I've got fifteen books on my bedside table and I wish some of them had a [crosstalk 00:11:26] section I could read as well. So yeah, it was a reflection of the experience and I read two pages in the evening after putting all the kids to bed and everything, then I fall asleep and I don't read anything else.

Christine:
Yeah, it was so that if people are skipping through it, they could just pick out some bits and come back to something later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are wonderful, as is your book. Tell us more about how listeners can find out more about you, the book and of course, following you on social media.

Christine:
So, I'm a Twitter person, and that's C ARMSTRTONG LD which stands for London and I have a website at ChristineArmstrong.com and I look forward to hearing from your listeners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks Christine.

Christine:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. First, have you ever heard of something called the sunken cost theory? Financial grownup tip number one, sometimes, you pay for something and then, you can't get out of it. You are stuck and the money is gone. Like Christine and her husband's big luxury trip to Thailand. Don't spend your time stressing about the money, 'cause it's already bye-bye. It's gone. Move on psychologically, do better next time, but most of all, enjoy what you spent the money on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, keep those fixed costs low. Part of the reason that the panic attacks were kept in check for the couple was that they had a stable place to live. They own their home and they kept their overhead low because of that, so that they didn't have to worry about all of these bills that they were stuck with, that they couldn't do anything about. They were able to make changes in the high cost that they did have because, they were discretionary. Sure, you can go back and say they shouldn't, coulda, woulda, whatever, but ... the reality is, that when the you know what hit the fan, they were able to make some choices that didn't even seem that tough at the time. It's interesting that they never really went back to a lot of those discretionary expenses, even when they could, in theory afford them again, because their perspective had changed.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can go back now, of course and look at what you have that's discretionary and cut back, probably a good idea for most of us. But at least go and do an analysis of what you have that is fixed that you could not get rid of in this kind of unexpected situation where you suddenly have no income and two kids and businesses with bright futures, but still not any real, meaningful cashflow temporarily. Think about what you would do if you were in their situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, I hope this episode with the great Christine Armstrong gave you guys some perspective on your money and your life. Let me know your takeaways and if maybe your making some changes because of what you heard from Christine. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell and big thank yous for leaving reviews, it helps others discover the show, as does just simply telling a friend. Thank you so much, you have no idea. Thank you so much to those of you who do all these things and who subscribe and spread the word. It is truly so appreciated. We put so much work into this show and your feedback is priceless. Of course, also priceless, is the advice we got from Christine Armstrong that helped us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge. 

In Melissa’s money story you will learn:

-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness

-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways

-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience

In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Melissa prioritized her business growth

-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business

-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!

In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs

-The things you might want to pay for

-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space

-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions

-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide

-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs

Bobbi and Melissa also talk about

-The She Shift brand and her book

-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations

-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast

In My Take you will learn:

-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience

-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused

-The importance of consistency in brand building

-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready. 

Episode Links

Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com

Follow Melissa and the She Shift!

Facebook TheSheShift

Twitter @thesheshift

Instagram @thesheshift

LinkedIn :Melissa Clark

Create Space

 

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author

---

Transcription

Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.

Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business

Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.

Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?

Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.

Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?

Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.

Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?

Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?

Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.

Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Startup guru Courtney Reum credits family dinners and the lessons served with helping to create the foundation of his business success. Along with his brother, he has not only built and sold his own venture (Veev) and written a best seller “Shortcut Your Startup”, but is now also mentoring and supporting a new generation of entrepreneurs and brands. 

 

In Courtney’s money  story you will learn:

-The importance of family dinners in forming Courtney’s values

-The financial values Courtney and his brother learned from their parents

-Courtney’s confession about his teenage self

-How it helped Courtney learn about financial priorities and resource allocation

-Why Courtney references Jane Fonda and Jazzercise when talking about nutrition

-Courtney’s love of Sushi on Sundays

In Courtney’s money lesson you will learn:

-How his parents shared meals in order to stretch their dinners out budget

-The one key thing Courtney’s dad did when the bill came that can save you money

-Advice on how to figure out the right amount to tip when eating out

-The importance of sticking to old fashioned values even though technology dominates

-Little known facts about how phone numbers were created

In Courtney’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Courtney’s advice about carrying cash in a digital world

-Why $100 is the magic number for his emergency stash when traveling

Bobbi and Courtney also talk about

-How M13 began after the brothers sold Veev

-Why Courtney believes we are living in the golden age of creating brands

-Courtney’s angel investments and his take on consumer tech brands

-Why he believes all brands need to be media and tech companies

-What the M13 playbook is and how it works

-Courtney’s book with his brother, “Shortcut your Startup” 

-The importance of realizing “Time is the new Money"

In My Take you will learn

-How eating together as a family has been shown to increase the odds of success for kids

-Why checking the bill at restaurants often leads to corrections- in your favor

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Courtney!!

Instagram @CourtneyReum And his insta with his brother Carter @ReumBrothers

Twitter @courtneyreum @M13company

Linkedin Courtney Reum

 

Learn more about M13 at m13.co

 

Read Courtney’s book “Shortcut your Startup” !

 

Learn more about the spirits brand they built and sold: Veev !

 

Learn more about the companies Courtney and M13.co are working with:

Classpass

Lyft

Casper

Kevita

Pinterest

Bonobos

Warby Parker

 

Learn more about the success that comes from eating together as a family:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/12/the-most-important-thing-you-can-do-with-your-kids-eat-dinner-with-them/?utm_term=.94cf3514f57c

 

---

Transcription

Courtney Reum:
They certainly tried to show us and explain that there's some nutrition here. Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was Courtney Reum talking about family dinners growing up, and this is on family. They eat together generally seven nights a week, and while, as you will hear in his story, it wasn't about the food, the food did provide a largely unspoken lesson about money allocation and priorities. I'm really excited to share this story, I think we're all going to find something that we can relate to here and put to work in our own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, first a quick welcome. We keep things short here, around 15 minutes. Flex time for our busy listeners because you can listen to one episode or you can listen to a few if you have more time. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already, so you won't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure when you do so, to go into settings and set you the auto-download. That way you never have to think about it again. If you have a free moment after that, leave a review. We see every one of them, we really appreciate it, and it is the best way for other people to hear about the show and for us to grow. Speaking of that, of course you can also tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Courtney. There is something in this episode for everyone. Courtney Reum is not as famous as he should be, or as he will be. Pay attention to this guy, and his brother by the way, who's also his business partner, Carter. After stints at Goldman Sachs and success creating and then selling their popular spirits company, VeeV, the brothers are now helping nurture other success stories with their company M13. It's a disruptive brand development studio and venture capital firm. Their portfolio incudes investments in some names you may or may not have heard of, like Lyft, ClassPass, Pinterest, Bonobos, Warby Parker and more.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, in their spare time, they wrote a book for anyone who wants to rev up their brand, Shortcut Your Startup. Courtney also drops some random facts I never knew, and I bet you didn't either, so play close attention, here is Courtney Reum.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney Reum, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Courtney Reum:
Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you. Not only are you, and your brother I should say, the inventors of Veev, which a lot of people are fans of, you now have a new company which we'll talk more extensively about after your money story, but M13, which is a brand development company, you have investments in a lot of really cool companies, from ClassPass, to Casper, to Lyft. Tell us just briefly about it. What is M13? M13 has a really cool origin, the name right?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. Well we wanted to have that mysterious MI6 kind of I don't know what they do, but it must be something cool sound to it. But the literal name, M13, is the brightest cluster of starts in the galaxy, whereby the sum of the whole shines greater than the individual parts. It's this idea of connecting the dots and pitting the pieces together, which is what we're really endeavoring to with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. I should mention you also have a book.

Courtney Reum:
We do. What we're trying to do right now with M13 is build a company for building companies, so we're starting some of our own, we're working with other companies, and so we have a, I guess I'd call it a venture capital arm and then a brand development studio, and we're really trying to institutionalize the platform or the machinery of how you create brands. We decided to try to codify that and write a book called Shortcut Your Startup, that is a lot of the principals and things we're doing, because we believe it's the new age of creating consumer brands and things like that, so we wanted to share what we've learned and then hopefully continue to improve on it with what we're doing with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. You also learned a lot from your parents growing up. I know your father unfortunately passed away a little more than a year ago, but there were a lot of lessons around the dinner table, about saving and splurging. Tell us your money story Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
I think one of my most vivid memories growing up is that my family was really big on the lost art of having family dinner, probably almost until the time we got to high school, we probably did it seven days a week just about, and even through high school, probably four or five, which I think is almost unheard of. But what stands out to me is my parents, who were very frugal even when they didn't have to be, but always very value oriented, we would probably, four nights a week, eat some kind of Stouffer's, Lean Cuisine, AKA TV dinner. The only real choice for the night would be are we going to have spaghetti tonight or are we going to have chicken and vegetables? Whatever it may be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your mom wasn't cooking spaghetti from scratch, these were heat-up meals for $5, $10, whatever they were going for at that time.

Courtney Reum:
Right, because I remember being teenager, and I was always a little bit of a smart you know what, and my mom would say, "Okay, I'm going to cook dinner," I'm like, "You call that cooking?" She's like, "You know what I mean, just pick which one you want." I think my family's a bunch of type A busy bees, people on the go, but we would have TV dinners three or four nights a weeks, and then Sunday would always be the day where my parents would say, "All right, we're going to go out for a nice dinner. Where do you guys want to go?" Nine out of 10 times, growing up in Chicago in the 90s we'll say, it would be sushi, and despite what people may think now, sushi was super exotic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Courtney Reum:
And rare back then, to the point that not one friend of mine ate sushi. My friends in high school, like on the football team and stuff, when I would walk somewhere with a cut roll of sushi, they would take it out and throw it back and forth like it was an egg toss because they were so wowed by what the heck sushi was. Anyways-

Bobbi Rebell:
And it was expensive.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, and it was expensive. We certainly grew up having every opportunity, but having said that, I could not have gone out for sushi four nights a week, so it was a great lesson in all right, I'm going to have a TV dinner tonight, not realizing how some of those nitrates and processing and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was a different time. Give your parents a break. We didn't know at the time. Now we're all eating clean.

Courtney Reum:
Yes, exactly, but I definitely was able to scoff down a few of those dinners, knowing that Sunday was around the corner and we were going to have our favorite sushi dinners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did your parents ever talk to you about the financial decisions behind that?

Courtney Reum:
My parents didn't explicitly talk about it, but they certainly tried to show us and explain that, "Hey, we don't have time, nor can we go out for sushi every night, but this is still a really good meal. There's some nutrition here." Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway? How can people apply this lesson of saving and then splurging to their own lives?

Courtney Reum:
My parents are both highly disciplined people, and I would like to think that has trickled down to us. Even to keep it with food, since it's such a bonding occasion, my parents loved to tell stories of living in New York City right after they graduated college, and they would go out to dinner once a week because they felt like it was important to do right when they were newly weds, but they couldn't afford to really go out to dinner, so they would share one appetizer, one entree, one dessert and one coffee. The fact that they had the discipline to still find a way to enjoy and make the most of whatever they could do, but they had the discipline to realize we can't go out for a full-blown meal all the time, and that made a big impression on me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the most memorable financial lesson your dad taught you?

Courtney Reum:
My dad checked every bill from every restaurant. Whether we spent $7 or $70, he would check every bill. Still to this day, I do that, and I'm shocked how often there's a mistake on the bill, and most people, if you don't really check it closely, they don't catch it. They're like oh, they threw another drink on there, and maybe you don't care, but you might as well at least know. My dad would always joke, "It's funny how the restaurant very rarely makes an error in your favor." He just taught me to really dot your Ts and cross your Is, and my dad was one of those guys who could do incredible math in his head. None of this stuff where you just take the amount of the check and double it to do the tip or something like that, he would calculate whatever number was in his mind, 16%, 17%, without tax because he didn't believe you tipped on tax back then, and just do it in his head and write it down. Just having a facility with numbers and being in the details was something I really took from him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He didn't have apps that would split things up and calculate everything for him.

Courtney Reum:
No calculators on his phone because there was and phones. He was like a human calculator, at least up to maybe two or three digits.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what's the takeaway from that?

Courtney Reum:
I think there is that old fashioned way to do things, and we've got to make sure [inaudible 00:09:20] where we don't lose it in the world of talk to text or voice or you name it, because I always say to people, "Do you know why telephone numbers are seven digits, not including area code? Because seven digits is roughly the amount of digits that can stay in you short-term memory, depending on how you define that, 30 seconds to a minute, this can stay in your memory and you can remember it. Back in the day when phone numbers were created, you really needed to remember that thing, or even if you wrote to down, and so it was important that it stayed in your short-term memory." Now think how few numbers we actually know off the top of our head, so we have to make sure we just don't lose those skills.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Speaking of skills, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because we were joking before we started taping, that you are ... I can't even keep track Courtney. I know you got off an overnight, but then it was delayed and you were on the tarmac. You travel a lot and you don't use a lot of cash, but cash is important in terms of this one everyday money tip that you're going to share.

Courtney Reum:
Yes. I always keep an emergency $100 bill, just for a rainy day, in my briefcase. My briefcase is more of a tech Tumi backpack, but I always keep it in there, try to always replenish it when I use it, and as silly as it sounds, obviously it takes up no room and there are so many times where I'm some place, I'm like, "I have no money," I'm like, "Wait. The emergency 100." I would encourage people, whether it's an emergency 20 or 50 or 100, whatever it is, always hide it from yourself so you don't use it too often, but then always have it available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, and something we all should definitely do. All right, let's talk a little bit more about M13. Where are you taking this company? Because this was basically formed after you sold Viiv, what's happening with it next and what should we look forward to hearing about?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, as I alluded to, I think our whole thing when we sold Viiv, was we had started and operated some companies, we had been on the boards of a bunch of other companies and thankfully been successful. For example, there's a probiotic and kombucha line called KeVita, that Pepsi bought a couple of years ago. Basically, all consumer tech companies, we probably made, at that time, maybe three dozen angel investments, and we said, "You know," we tried to step back and do the proverbial lift your head up, see where the world's going, and we thought yeah, of course we could, we had plenty of ideas, we could start a new company, try to make it successful, sell it or not sell it.

Courtney Reum:
But we really think we're living in this golden age of creating brands, again, we focus on consumer tech brands, and by that I mean consumer brands that tend to be techable, so that can be anything like direct to consumer online brand, or even something like a Lyft that we're big investors in, or Pinterest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Give us some more examples. Yeah, drop some names.

Courtney Reum:
Drop some names, okay. Let's see. Right now I'm wearing Bonobos pants, Warby Parker glasses, some of the mattress companies, so it's all things that we basically believe that every consumer brand needs to be saying to themselves, "How can it more of a media and tech company?" Because what's really changed is that this is the golden age of creating brands. I saw a funny meme the other day that was like I want to create a brand and someone says, "How should I do it?2 he goes, "Oh, it's really easy. You just get someone to give you a name, a logo, and then you make it in China and you sell some ads on Instagram." It obviously a joke, but there's some truth to it.

Courtney Reum:
What we're trying to do is institutionalize the process of brand building. Obviously nothing is one size fits all, but there are things that I get asked every single day like, "Hey, do you know a good digital marketing agency? Do you know someone who does that?" Rather than do the analog way of replying to every one of those, or thinking about who I know or who did I come across that week, we have actually taken all of our learnings and put it into what we call our M13 playbook, which is literally a digital repository of all our best practices and best resources. That's contacts, that distribution strategies, that's broker partners, those are relationships, and have actually put it in a format that we believe if we do this well, will help brands start faster, more time efficiently. Our book is all about time is the new money, so it's about trying to launch brands at scale so we can do it in a repeatable way and launch brands more quickly and more often than we previously would have been able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and Shortcut Your Startup, which is your book, and all your social channels. I know you're a little bit shy about being too promotional on social, but people can at least see pictures of your adorable mom on your social right?

Courtney Reum:
Right, exactly. If nothing else, please read the first page of my book because it's dedicated to my dad, and please look at my social media to find my mom. My Instagram is really easy, it's just my first name and last, @courtneyreum. If you find another one of those, I would be shocked, so it should be easy to find me there. M13.co, not .com, .co because it's more trendy now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, is it? Okay.

Courtney Reum:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I learn so much from you Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. I don't do a ton with LinkedIn, but I think I've gotten about three or four requests since we've been sitting here, so that's the world we're living in, and our book, shortcutyourstartup.com, there's a website, and then of course, since the whole world is on Amazon Prime, you can certainly find us there too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney, I'm so excited to see how much more you accomplish. You're so impressive. Congratulations on everything.

Courtney Reum:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Courtney's money story and what he had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. We focused primarily on the fact that Courtney's parents did spend a lot of time preparing or money on everyday meals, and left that to the once a week sushi splurge, but Courtney also said something very important, and that is that they ate together as a family pretty much every night. Research has shown that leads to high achievement in kids, specifically dinnertime conversation boosts vocabulary for young kids, and for school-age kids, regular mealtime is a powerful predictor of high achievement scores, more so than time spent in school, doing homework, playing sports and doing art.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's even more. Other research found that teenagers who ate family meals five to seven times a week were twice as likely to get As in school as those who ate two or fewer times a week with their families. Full disclosure here, I am aspiring to this, it is not happening yet, so I'm going to put that on my fall to do list. I will leave a link to the research in the show notes. If you want to learn more, you can find those show notes at bobbirebell.com/podcast/courtneyreum. C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y-R-E-U-M.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Courtney talks about checking the bill, and how the mistakes are usually not in your favor. No matter how much money you have, check the bill. I'm not alone in having caught so many things on bills that just should not be there. It happens so much, and as for tipping, I do believe you still aren't expected to tip on the tax, even though tipping expectations have certainly gone up in recent years.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way my friends, did you catch the random knowledge about phone numbers that Courtney shared? Rewind if you need to. I was fascinated. Maybe everyone knows that and I'm the only one. Anyway, Courtney crammed some amazing wisdom into this episode, raising the bar for my future guests, just saying. Keep an eye on this guy, and thanks Courtney, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

 Legendary entrepreneur Shelley Zalis, Founder and CEO of The Female Quotient, The Girls Lounge, FQ Talent and FQ Impact, knew she needed to be fearless when she started her first company Online Testing Exchange. So when her relatives offered to fund the venture, she turned down the money, choosing instead to go to outside investors. 

 

In Shelley’s money story you will learn:

-How she had an idea to disrupt the online research field

-The pivotal decision she had to make when it came to raising the million dollars she needed to get her company started

-The concerns she had about her ability to take risks with family financing

-How her strong track record and achievements in the industry allowed her relatively easy access to financing her dream company

-Examples of specific risks she was able to take because she was not emotionally connected to her funding

In Shelley’s money lesson you will learn:

-The danger of being greedy and not wanting to share equity by taking outside financing

-The importance of making bold decisions and not playing it too safe when starting and building a business

In Shelley’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The best ways to manage giving

-Shelley’s strategy to make sure the businesses she supports get the financing they need

-How Shelley makes sure her donations are always used as she intended

Bobbi and Shelley also talk about:

-Her latest venture, The Female Quotient

-The growing components of The Female Quotient including The Girls Lounge

-How The Female Quotient evolved from the Intelligence Quotient, and then the Emotional Quotient

-Men are welcome in the Girls Lounge

-The Girls Lounge is launching permanently on university campuses in over 122 countries

-FQ Talent and FQ Impact will launch soon

In My Take you will learn:

-The way to apply Shelley’s strategy to businesses you want to support

-Strategies to gain the experience and industry respect to be able to get others to buy in to your dreams when you go looking for funding

 

Episode links

Learn more about The Female Quotient https://www.thefemalequotient.com/

Follow Shelley and The Female Quotient!

Twitter: @shelleyzalis  @wearetfq

Instagram @shelleyzalis @wearetfq

Facebook: Shelley Zalis  The Female Quotient

---

Transcription

Shelley Zalis:
I thought well if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say, if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed, but failure wouldn't have been an option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of 'How To Be a Financial Grown up'. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. It sounds like a dream come true to be able to avoid outside financing when you're starting a business. Keep it in the family, right? But let's be honest, how much risk would you really take with your parents or your spouse's money? And as our guest Shelley Zalis makes very clear, you need that risk to succeed. Not all money is created equal when it comes to funding startups. Welcome everyone. The show continues to grow, so thanks to all of you who have been telling your friends. If you're new, we work on flextime here. The podcast runs about 15 minutes or so. So pretty much anyone can fit it into their schedule, but if you have more time, go ahead and binge.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about Shelley Zalis. I first met her or should I say I first witnessed Shelley taking total command of a room of mesmerized women about a year ago. I was fortunate to be included in a dinner that she hosted and have been in awe ever since. She is a force. She is a disruptor in the online research business with OTX, Online Testing Exchange, that was her first company and now is taking aim at equality with The Female Quotient. Here is Shelley Zalis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shelley Zalis, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. I hope I never grow up though, because once you're grown up, you feel you never have the opportunity to keep learning and I learn every day. So I hope that I never grow up. I guess I'm like Peter Pan-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just financially.

Shelley Zalis:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you can find all your youthful adventures, right?

Shelley Zalis:
I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Shelley Zalis:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm a huge fan of your company. You're CEO of The Female Quotient, which of course encompasses the Girls' Lounge. Tell us just a little bit about what it is before we get to your money story.

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. First of all, I am your greatest fan 'cause you make every conversation, whether it's complicated or easy, fun, interactive, engaging-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you.

Shelley Zalis:
And with solutions for change. So thank you for doing what you do as well. The Female Quotient, the name came ... first came the Intelligence Quotient, IQ, then the Emotional Quotient EQ, now the Female Quotient, FQ. When you put women in any equation, the equation gets better so that we can start creating solutions around diversity. We say that diversity is good for business and yet we're going backwards. So The Female Quotient is in the business of equality and we have four key pillars, the Girls' Lounge. There's a boys club, why not have a girls' lounge, a place where the minority acts and feels like the majority. Men are welcome, but they come into our world with our rules and they all feel comfortable. And we will be launching a permanent Girls' Lounge on university campuses in over 122 countries. And then we'll also be launching the FQ Talent, a talent business for corporate women to bring more visibility to women doing remarkable things. And then we also have a practice of equality, helping companies become a quality fit because we can help women all we want, but if we don't rewrite the rules than women will continue to fall out in middle management or what we call the messy middle. And then the fourth is the FQ Impact, which is our giving back with generosity really to women in developing markets.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this costs money and a lot of that money came from Online Testing Exchange, which you built earlier in your career. You have a money ... Sort of share with us about a strategic decision that you made, a psychological strategic decision you made about how to finance your first business venture. Tell us your money story, Shelley.

Shelley Zalis:
I needed a million dollars because I met a 21 year old. I was doing website testing, usability testing and I thought, "What if we migrate research from offline to online?" And I said to him, "Trevor, why don't you build this for me?" I said, "But I have no money." And I said, "But the second someone gives you money, I'll give you a million dollars. So believe in me, invest in me and I will give it back in a very significant way." And so I needed a million dollars and I had two options, go to a big company and get them to buy in, or my husband and my father both agree to give me half a million dollars to realize my dream and they believed in me.

Shelley Zalis:
I thought about that. I thought well that's the easy way just to go to my family, but it was gonna be hard. My husband was just starting out in medicine. We did not have that kind of money. We would have been putting everything in our savings account into this and of course my father wanted to help out. And I thought well, if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed. But failure wouldn't have been an option if I had my family's option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk and so I did not take their money and I went to Nielsen and they were the first to fund me. And as soon as they said yes, I handed a 21 year old a million dollar check.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you already had a relationship with Nielsen?

Shelley Zalis:
Yep. I went to Nielsen. I said, "I have a big idea." And they said, "Great. What do you need?" I said, "I need a million dollars." And that is the check that I gave to this young man that just said yes to me, believed in me, not knowing what the results would become. But what I had was passion and purpose and an unstoppable mindset. And I went in saying, "I really want to try something new. I don't know if it's gonna work, but if it does, it's certainly gonna be a game changer." And I sold that same company three times. So they took a good risk and they also got a great reward as a result of saying yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back at those early days, do you feel that there are risks that you took? Is there a specific example you can think of, of a risk that you took that you may have been more hesitant to take had you been financed by your relatives, by your husband and your ... well really, you and your husband and your father?

Shelley Zalis:
Absolutely. The first risk I took when I got to Nielsen was I said to Nielsen, "Not only do we need to pay this young man a million dollars, but I'm going to go break into the movie business." I was very well known in the consumer packaged good business, but I decided to go after the movie business because they had two and a half minute trailers versus just 30 second spots. They tested a lot of content and they needed data within 48 hours and security was very important for them, because you could close the movie before it opens if people panned the trailer. And so I thought if I could build a system around the hardest thing possible than doing 30 second spots for products that are womb to tomb would be very simple. So I said to Nielsen, "I'm gonna go to the studios and everything they're testing offline ..." And there was a monopoly. One guy owned the research business for the movie ... for the movie industry. I said, "Everything they test offline, I want to parallel test for free online so I could calibrate the scores and build the model and build the technology that would work." And that was very risky and that was very expensive and I wouldn't have been able to take those chances if I couldn't go way out there and build the [echo system 00:08:06] very quickly by parallel testing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Versus if you were investing ... If you had your father's money and your husband's money, you would have been watching every penny and maybe been a lot more reluctant to do something like that.

Shelley Zalis:
I would have played it safe and if you play it safe, there's no way you'll be really the first to own something. And I always said to myself, "I need to be the first, the second and the third." The first has to come up with this big idea, but they usually lose. So if I took my father and husband's money, I probably would have lost. So the first always comes up with a big idea. You have to make the investment, but you don't reap the benefit because the second one comes in, they copy everything you did, but they don't really know what's under the hood, and the third is the sweeper. You've now built an [echo system 00:08:53], everyone is buying in. They get the money and they win.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, what is the takeaway here? What is the lesson for them, how they can apply it to their own lives?

Shelley Zalis:
Well I think number one, don't be greedy. Like had I've taken my husband's money and my father's money, I would have ... the equity would have stayed in the family and that was the positive. But the negative was I would have been risk averse and failure would not have been an option for me, and there is no companies that succeed building something that doesn't exist if you're not willing to fail before you succeed. Number two, when you are pioneering something that's never been done before, make sure you set yourself up in your own mind that you will have freedom to color out of the lines, that you're not gonna play it safe. You've gotta be bold, you've gotta be brave, you've gotta be willing to take chances, and you do need a partner that will support that mindset.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's talk about your everyday money tip now though, because it sort of flips where you're seated. Because now instead of being the one receiving the money, now you're in a position to support businesses that you believe in.

Shelley Zalis:
I once had someone come to me, they needed $100,000.00 to create a project that I thought was very worthwhile. And so of course I gave them $10,000.00 and I said, "Here's $10,000.00 towards the hundred thousand." As it turns out, they never raised the additional $90,000.00 that they needed and I never got my money back, and that really bothered me. That's hard worked money for me that I really gave to this organization to make something happen. So now I designate all of my giving and so if someone needs 100,000 and I'm planning to give 10, I will say to them, "You go get your 90,000 and I will give you the last 10 so that I know the project is a go." Or I will designate my giving. Of I'm gonna give 10,000 to something, I will buy three dogs sniffing dogs or I will buy three rehabilitation machines in Tel HaShomer Hospital or for my children's bar in Bar Mitzvahs. I said to them, "10% of what you get for your Bar Mitzvah, we're gonna give to an organization." And we built a gym for handicapped children and my kids were able to go and see that that actually happened. Because when you can see the results of your giving, you want to give more.

Shelley Zalis:
My mother always used to tell me that giving is like wearing a new pair of shoes. When you put them on the first time, it pinches but the more you wear them, the more comfortable you get. Like I just was at the MAKERS Conference recently and I met a young girl. She's 12 years old from India living in Colorado and she found a technology, a way to remove lead from water and she needed $25,000.00 for her dream and I thought, if they're asking everyone in the audience and someone says, "I'll give you 500, I'll give you a thousand." She might've ended up with 3,000 out of 25 and one, it would have been discouraging for her and two, she would not have been able to realize her dreams. If I'm gonna give, I want to know that it's gonna make a difference and help you go where you need to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, Shelley. Let's talk quickly about the Girls' Lounge and The Female Quotient and what is happening in the rest of 2018.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. So we are doing Girls' Lounge popups. It is a space, as I said before, where the minority acts and feels like the majority. A space for women to connect, collaborate, activate, change together, but more importantly to support each other and have unplugged conversations. So we have popups at pretty much every major industry. We will be rolling out on college campuses starting in September. We already opened two, but we'll be opening 200 universities at a time. We have access to 3,800 universities in 122 countries. Our FQ talent business will be launched in about three months. We are building it right now with wire frames.

Bobbi Rebell:
What will that be?

Shelley Zalis:
It will be a talent agency for senior women, placing women in keynotes. I'm just so sick of hearing that there's no women for keynote speeches-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I've heard that too, Shelley. It's amazing.

Shelley Zalis:
It's ridiculous. We have all the women, the women are all here. We have over 17,000 corporate women in our community that are all bad ass in their own regard with their own stories to tell. So no excuses. Sorry, not sorry. There's plenty of women. So if you don't find them, then that's just a poor excuse for not moving forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, where can people find out more about all of this and be in touch with you and your team?

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. You can follow us on social @shelleyzalis or @wearetfq and you can find us ... our website is The Female Quotient.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Shelley Zalis:
Bobbi, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing our journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
All I can say is one day I hope I have the means to be able to make someone's dreams come true the way Shelley does. It's pretty incredible, but take her advice to heart. Financial grownup tip number one, when giving to a startup, maybe your friend is starting a business, has a page on Kickstarter. Don't be afraid to take a step back and see how they raised funds from other people first. If you wanna give something to show your support early on, well maybe make a small donation, but hold back and know what happens to your money if the project is not fully funded. Financial grownup tip number two, Shelley talks about being fearless and taking risks. But take that in the context of the fact that she already had a ton of experience in the industry. She knew what she was doing. Companies like Nielsen don't just hand you a million dollars. You need to know your stuff and have the credibility and the experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe and while you're there, make sure to go to settings and select auto downloads. You don't have to worry about missing any episodes and I want to hear your thoughts. DM on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and of course, sign up for our newsletter more about the podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Shelley Zalis, truly fearless and so inspiring. Thank you Shelley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move. 

In Brian’s money story you will learn:

-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money

-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations

-The financial and social reality of academic life

-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends

-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career

-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career

-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job

In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:

-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change

-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right

-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward

In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How giving money can create contentment

-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier

-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you. 

In My Take you will learn:

-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose

-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values

Brian and Bobbi also talk about:

-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"

-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment

-How his book cuts through jargon

-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing

Episode Links

Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com

Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth

Follow Brian!

Twitter @brianportnoy

LinkedIn Brian Portnoy

 

---

Transcription

Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.

Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.

Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.

Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.

Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.

Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?

Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?

Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?

Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.

Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.

Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?

Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.

Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.

Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.

Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?

Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.

Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Parenting expert KJ Dell’Antonia takes the money lessons her parents taught her as a child, and adapts them to her rural life raising 4 kids on a farm. The author of the new book “How to be a Happier Parent” discusses her kids income streams, financial responsibilities, and other behind the scenes details to help other families adapt to the realities of our digital culture. 

 

In KJ’s money story you will learn:

-The specific ways her parents taught her to be financially responsible at a young age

-How KJ applies some, but not all of those rules to her own life

-The strategy KJ uses in teaching her 4 kids about money

-How author Ron Lieber inspired how KJ teachers her kids about finances

-When to pay kids for tasks/chores around the house

-How the things kids want today is different from when KJ was growing up

-KJ and Bobbi disagree about spending money on “virtual” purchases like in-app offerings

-The businesses KJ’s kids have and other income streams happening in her household

-How KJ determines how much to pay her son and his friends to do work on their farm

In KJ’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of setting kids up with savings accounts that have interest

-The lesson KJ learned from her dad about checking accounts

-How KJ set up a virtual allowance for her kids

In KJ’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The strategy KJ uses to be a happier parent when traveling

-Her take on budgeting for travel

-How it is different from her parents point of view on traveling as a family

KJ and Bobbi also talk about:

-KJ’s new book “How to be a Happier Parent” 

-How to set the clocks that you can control

-Why she says ‘everyday is a race against the clocks we don’t set’

-Techniques to set up routines that work

-KJ’s four ways to make parents happier

 

In My Take you will learn: 

-My take on ways to help kids learn to be financially responsible

-How to find your own solutions to teaching kids about money- regardless of what your peer group is doing

-How me and my siblings learned about budgeting from our dad

-My take on traveling with a family and whether to splurge on that extra room or nicer hotel- even if it means cutting the trip shorter

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about KJ and her latest book howtobeahappierparent.com

KJ’s website: KJDellantonia.com

Follow KJ!

Instagram @kjda

Twitter @kjdellantonia

Facebook: KJ Dell’Antonia

Check out the Ron Lieber episode we talks about! 

 

---

Transcription

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening, but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was new friend, KJ Dell-Antonia talking about her kids and letting them splurge on virtual purchases, something, by the way, we disagreed on. I got to meet her recently at Podcast Movement, and we bonded over all things money and parenting. When I heard she had a new book coming out, How to Be a Happier Parent, I was all over it. You knew she was coming on. This is a great interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to our new listeners. For those of you just discovering us, we're so glad that you're here. As a regulars know, we keep the shows short, around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy life, but we also know some of you have more time so we do three a week. Feel free to listen to a few at a time. Subscribing will make this easier. Don't forget. Go into the settings, set up auto download. Then you don't have to do anything more. Automate your podcast like you automate your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to KJ. Her book is super practical and -- I love this part -- very specific. It's like a roadmap. Very well researched, but it also has a lot of information about her family life which is fascinating by the way. She talks a lot about it in her interview. Here is KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, KJ Dell'Antonia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of so many things but most recently How to Be a Happier Parent which no one needs. We all need this. We all need this so badly, and you're the perfect person because you are the former lead editor of the New York Times mother lode. You're still involved in that kind of writing as well. Congratulations on the new book which is coming out.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a perfect podcast for you because you were basically born a financial grownup. Tell us your money story.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I was definitely raised a financial grownup. I'm an only child, and my dad in particular was really determined that I would understand the value of a dollar and understand how the financial system worked. People say there are those who understand compound interest and then there are those who pay it. He was determined that I would be the one who understood it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was his job? What was his background?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He's in computers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He was not a financial advisor. It's just money is an important part of life, and it was important to him that it be something that I understood. If I had a lemonade stand, I had to pay for all the ingredients and justify how much we were spending versus how much we were making. As I got older if I needed a loan for something, I he would charge me interest. I would really ... I mean I had to pay him every month certain amounts. He set up a checking account for me really early. He got me a credit card really early that I got the bills for. I mean to have missed a payment and paid interest on that credit card, I mean I can think of nothing more shameful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. So now you are officially the financial grownup of the household. You have four children.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
How is this now translating into how you are teaching them to be independent financial adults and then therefore you will be a happier parent?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
That is the hope. We do give them an allowance. It is not an exchange for work. That's a Ron Leiber tip that I have completely embraced. He's the author of The Opposite of Spoiled. I will pay them for jobs that I would pay someone else to do. Now, they are 17, 14, 12, and 12. The 17-year-old and the two 12-year-olds take care of the lawn because I paid someone else to take care of the lawn. In our house, you have to pay for your own electronics. If you want a phone, you have to save up. You have to be able to pay the monthly bills for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So before we were recording, you joked but I think you were also somewhat serious that you are not as good at teaching your children to become financial grownups as your dad was in your case. What's different?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
When I was growing up, I wanted Gloria Vanderbilt jeans or Doc Martens or whatever. My kids want Fortnite money. I feel like helping them to sort of keep track of digital money is really challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So what do you do? I've had this happen where your kid wants money to buy something that is virtual. It's an in-app purchase that's not actually a thing. It's like a new avatar or something that, for me at least, I really don't want them to ever spend a penny on ever. You're okay with them buying these virtual things in these games?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Once it's their money, I'll talk to them. At the end of a month, I might say "Do you realize how much you spent?" Especially when it comes ... I've got one now that wants a phone. Boy, you better bet I'm going "Yeah, look how much you spent on Pokemon Go. You could have had a quarter of a phone for that." Once it's their money, I pretty much let them spend it on whatever they want within some limits. I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell me, for each of them quickly, what are their primary income streams? It is all just for tasks that you would pay other people for? Or are there other things that your kids are doing to earn this money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I have a 17-year-old. He has a small business selling maple soda and maple iced tea at our farmer's market. He's struggling to make a profit at it, but he's finally getting there. He's got allowance saved, and we also have a small farm so I will pay him for farm work. He's hauling hay bales and driving the tractor. When we're in really the throes of farm work, I hire his friends as well. He makes $15 an hour from me. My 14-year-old daughter is a huge babysitter so she gets paid to babysit. In fact, she doesn't do any lawn work. She doesn't want to do lawn work, and she's got her income stream. She babysits. The other ones do mostly lawn work for me and allowance and saving up birthday gifts still, but they're both only 12.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this? What advice do you have for parents in this situation teaching kids about money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you can set them up with some kind of savings where they can see the interest coming in ... My dad actually had something where they would mail me a little tiny check for the interest. I'm not sure how he came up with that, but he kept these minuscule checks. It was neat and it was educational. If you have to have sort of virtual money as we do, I mean all this allowance that I'm talking about, it tends to be virtual. We use an app. Make sure you talk about what's going in and what's going out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. I've done this so I was really excited to hear this. Go for it.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you have kids and you're traveling with kids and this would make you happier, book two hotel rooms. There was a woman in my book who was talking about this and she had a partner, and she was like "No sex on vacation is not a good vacation." That's part of the reason, but part of the reason is just for your own sanity. You have a little ones. You put them to bed. You retire to your own room. You get an adjoining room. Spend a little less time in the location and a little more money on making that a more comfortable experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
One day less you probably won't miss. You'll still really have the experience.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that idea.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah, I feel like one day less but a more pleasant days that you have there is going to be worth it. My folks would have said "But you're just sleeping there because we're going to get up and go." You got to decide what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. That's a lot of the themes in your book, How to Be a Happier Parent, which is coming out right as the kids are heading back to school. It's a perfect time for parents to really be proactively thinking about parenting and-

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... the decisions that they make and the systems that we put in place when we get back into our routines in the fall. I love this quote. "It's hard to find happiness when every day is a race against a clock we don't set."

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah. Part of what I'm trying to do in the book is help you to set the clocks you do control. We talk about mornings, homework, screen time, all the stuff that as we, like you said, get back into our normal routines, we're really looking and going "Okay. How are we going to handle that this year?"

Bobbi Rebell:
One other part of the book I love is there's four things that can make parents happier.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Parents who say that they're happier in their parenting, that they feel sort of better about it, they tend, when their kids are younger, to be one the more involved side. When they are parents of older kids, they tend to describe themselves as doing things that encourage independence in their kids. That's one thing, sort of that evolution from helping to letting go and letting your kids do what they're capable of. Happier parents have a real mindset of recognizing when things are pretty good even if some things are bad. Looking around at a moment when the kids are bickering and maybe there's a lot of homework and dinner's not on the table and recognizing to yourself that "Hey, it's a rough evening, but really overall this is what I wanted. We're all healthy. We're all happy. We're here together" and just soaking in that good feeling.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Happier parents also, they know what's really big. I call it's what's a tiger and what's not a tiger. Most of the things in life that stress us on behalf of our kids are not a tiger. There will always be another balloon. There will always be another lost Thomas train. There will always be another best friend and there's another college. Those things are ... When things go wrong for our kids, it's stressful, but typically, it's not a tiger. The last thing that happier parents tend to say is that they don't put their children's everyday needs above their own. When they're looking at something like what to serve for dinner or where to go on vacation, they don't pick based on what will make the kids happy. They pick based on what's going to make the family happier. Sometimes we should be looking at them and going "I'm sorry. I can't run you to Jessie's house because I've got a tennis game in 10 minutes. You'll have to find another way to get there."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. I do have a pretty regular tennis game on Saturday mornings with my friend. You know what? I get home and my son gets to sleep a little late and it's okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's important for us to stick to activities. You talk about this in the book too. To stick to activities that made us happy before we had kids and just keep doing it. It sets a good example for them. Tell us more about the book, where they can see you, where they can learn more about you, and all that good stuff.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
The best way to find me is kjdellantonia.com. You'll also find me in the New York Times. There's a couple of excerpts from the book that are running or have run, one in the Boston Globe as well. Howtobeahappierparent.com will also work. All the urls, all the things. On Instagram, I'm @kjda, and everywhere else, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Well thank you for all that you do for all of us parents. We truly appreciate it. A lot of what you say actually goes for just about everyone in people that you deal with in your everyday life. Great perspective. Congratulations on the new book.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that KJ isn't afraid to do things differently from her parents even though she admits they did a good job teaching her to be financially responsible. Financial Grownup tip number one. As we raise kids, we may think that our strategy to teach kids to be financially responsible will be the same as other parents, but think again. Some people will insist they want to pay kids for everything. Some don't believe in paying kids for things they should be doing as a member of the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are parents who will -- this is true -- give teenagers credit cards or debit cards with zero restrictions saying "I don't want them to think we can't afford something" or they say they'll monitor their spending and, this way, they can see everything going on and have a discussion about it. I can see the logic. Or they just don't want to bother to talk to their kids about it because they're busy so life goes on and there's no plan and no cap on spending. They just kind of give the kids money haphazardly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever you decide, make it deliberate and I do think it is a good idea to get ideas from other parents, but don't feel pressured to do what they do. Just because your kids bestie has an unlimited credit card doesn't mean you have to do that too. My siblings and I, for example, we had to present a budget to our parents at the beginning of, let's say, a semester of school and then if they approved it and funded it, we had to live within that and that was that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love KJ's tip about travel. The truth is, if you prefer to stay at a nicer hotel or have that extra room like KJ says, just make the trip a little shorter. You'll still have the experience and it will cut down on the tension and make the whole thing a lot more enjoyable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. Tell us more about your financial grownup experiences. DM me. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast which will also get you to the show notes. Those are always at bobbirebell.com/ and then the guest name. In this case, KJ Dell'Antonia. Thanks to KJ for sharing such great tips and insights, helping us all get one step closer to be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur Lyss Stern, CEO of networking and event planning company DivaMoms and author of two best-selling books explains how she dealt with a major company that approached her to work with them, and offered to pay her in Craisins. Lyss also shares her secret to controlling costs, and still saying yes, when she is out with her kids and they want to have some for treats like ice cream. 

 

In Lyss’ money story you will learn:

-How a billion dollar food company tried to hire her for no pay

-Why they said they had no budget to hire Lyss

-What they offered her instead of money

-The strategy Lyss uses to make sure she is properly compensated for her work

In Lyss’ money lesson you will learn:

-Her negotiating strategy and tips on how it can be used by others

-The best ways to communicate the value of your business

-How mompreneurs can leverage their skillset

-How to handle low ball offers

In Lyss’ everyday money tip you will learn

-How to save money on treats like ice cream

-The questions you should ask while ordering to find out about sizes and other items not on the menu

Lyss and Bobbi also talk about:

-Her books: If You Give a Mom a Martini

and Motherhood is a B****

-How her life inspired her books and her business

-The realities of life as a mom and an entrepreneur

In My Take you will learn:

-How to decide whether it is worth it to take on a low-paying client, when you don’t have other clients in place

-How to find value in a client that truly does not have money to pay for your services

Episode Links:

Divamoms.com

Follow Lyss!!

instagram @diva_moms

twitter @divamoms

Facebook lys.  Lyss Stern

Get her books!

If you give a mom a martini

Motherhood is a B****

---

Transcription

Lyss Stern:
They wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
You're listening to Financial Grownup With Me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, financial grownup friends, so this episode is going to give us permission to push back a little or actually a lot when we don't get what we need to run a profitable business. Emphasis on profit. Mompreneur, Lyss Stern, is the CEO of the networking and event planning company, DivaMoms. There are a number of them out there, but she was really a pioneer and helped create and define an industry that is thriving. And since she has so much free time, not while raising her three kids, she also writes books.

Bobbi R.:
You may have heard of If You Give a Mom a Martini and her more recent hit Motherhood is a B: 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness, and Inner Diva, which she co-wrote with Cheryl Burke, and it has a forward by odd-mom-out star, Jill Kargman. Special welcome to our new listeners. We keep the shows short, about 15 minutes so that we can fit it into your busy day, but we also do three a week, so we hear a lot of listeners like to binge listen on, for example, longer commutes. Think of it like flex-time for podcast listening. Hit subscribe if you have not already, and be sure to set up automatic downloads, so you have one less thing to remember. Just like you should automate your savings. One less thing. Okay, now let's get to the fantastic, Lyss Stern, who runs a for-profit business, something potential clients seem to have a hard time fully understanding. Here is Lyss Stern.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, Lyss Stern, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi R.:
And I am such a fan of your company Divalysscious Moms, major event planning company. I mean literally, you have millions of mothers and Mompreneurs in your universe that you have coming to your incredible events. So I'm over the moon that you were able to make time to chat with us. So thank you for being here.

Lyss Stern:
Of course. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Bobbi R.:
Before we get to your money story, just tell us a little bit about the company.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So DivaMoms is a lifestyle company for moms everywhere. What we do is we bring the best of the best directly to the moms. We've really become a direct marketing company, so we work with whatever is new, fabulous for moms, for kids, but everything has to be approved by DivaMoms, by Lyss Stern herself, before we promote it to our moms and our community.

Lyss Stern:
And we throw these amazing events and we have DivaMoms book clubs and lots of fabulous parties where moms can come and just be, let their hair down, have fun, mix and mingle with other fabulous moms and really a great social network for moms everywhere. A really amazing community online and offline.

Bobbi R.:
And you're also an author. We're going to talk about your books, in a couple of minutes, but first I want to get to your money story, because you're talking about your business, and it's really important for people to hear a little bit of the behind-the-scenes of what goes on behind these events, and the kind of decisions that you have to make in running a successful business. Tell us your money story.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So my money story is that I get hundreds and hundreds of emails a day, as I'm sure many Mompreneurs do, where companies want to work with me. They want to advertise with DivaMoms. They want to sponsor DivaMoms events. They want social media, They want email blasts, you name it. They want it.

Bobbi R.:
So there was one company that approached you and this was not a startup. What specifically did they approach you about doing with them as a business?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this one company, in particular, that is a billion dollar business.

Bobbi R.:
A food company?

Lyss Stern:
A food company, billion dollars.

Bobbi R.:
A company we've all heard of?

Lyss Stern:
Yes, oh yes. Reached out to me and said, "We love DivaMoms. We want to work with you, we want to advertise with you. We want to sponsor some of your events. We want to do direct marketing with you, want to do social media with you. We want email blast with you," all this other fabulous stuff. Okay, great. So I write back and "Thank you for reaching out. Let's talk, when you have some time, about what your budget may be," and all this other stuff.

Lyss Stern:
And they write back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no. We don't have a budget. We don't have a marketing or advertising budget." No, but I see their advertisements on every billboard, on every bus.

Bobbi R.:
Well they don't have a budget for you.

Lyss Stern:
But they don't have a budget for me. Correct.

Bobbi R.:
And they came to you?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. I did not approach them, and they can come directly to me. I wrote back something very polite and then they wrote back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, but we can't pay you," because I guess they got, they understood where I was coming from, that this DivaMoms is a for-profit business. Yes, we are affiliated. We work with different charities that we're passionate about, but DivaMoms is not a charity, we're a for-profit business like everybody else like they are.

Lyss Stern:
And they wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins. And ladies and everybody out there know your worth, and you know that you are better at getting paid in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
Oh, my goodness. Tell me how you would, in another situation, how can you turn around that kind of approach to something that is paying you in money? Have you had any stories where you've been able to make the pivot and get someone to see the value and then actually pay you in a currency?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. So I've had this many a times and this was the one time, obviously, that was with the craisins, and it was just ridiculous. But a lot of times I will write back to companies that reach out to me, and I'll explain to them who we ... Sometimes I don't think they really understand what I am or what we do. They might think that I'm, I don't know what they might think, maybe it's just a hobby for Lyss Stern. Maybe this is a hobby DivaMoms, this is not a business, and I make it, it's all business.

Lyss Stern:
This is what it is. It's very black and white and I send them, obviously, information. I send them photos, I send them videos, I send them press links and let them know who I really am. And then a lot of the times they do come back, and they say, "Oh, I didn't realize," and, "I didn't know that you did this and this and this. Let me go back and see if we can find some money in the budget." And a lot of the times they do go back, and they do, miraculously somewhere, find money out of their budget to work with us.

Bobbi R.:
So what is the lesson for our listeners to get more situations like scenario number two rather than number one?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. My mom always taught me, and I'm sure we get everybody's heard this a million times, "You get more with sugar, so always be sweet." Always put your best self out there and hopefully they will come back and understand. That you, obviously, that you have a business that you have worth. And it's always nicer to respond with a nice email and/or pick up the phone and set up a time to call and explain yourself. Explain what the business is, who you are, what you actually really do. And if they don't understand, no worries, no problem. But, hopefully, after speaking to you, after really going through your email and going through your information and doing their due diligence. They'll come back and say, "Okay, we found money," or "We'd like to really work with you and this is what we're going to do and this is what we can do."

Lyss Stern:
And I also always, I think it's important too, to give companies options to say, "What is your budget? What are you looking to do? Because we could start at this, and we can go to this." But it depends on again, what every company's looking for. And I just think it's there from the beginning, from day one of the conversation to be open and hat in hand and to have that conversation. And that's just even an example of a few days ago, a company reached out to me, a clothing company. They want me to host an event for them and Dah, Dah, Dah. And she starting to getting into this whole conversation about where the event was going to be. And I said, "Before we even begin this conversation, I just have to tell you we charge and this is what we do and this is-

Lyss Stern:
And she's, "Oh well, oh, I didn't know, I didn't know that you ... and so I had to explain it and then I sent her a proposal and that's also important too. Write it out, a, b, c, bullet point, make it visual and show them what you do, and then hopefully they'll come back with a budget.

Bobbi R.:
And I like the way that you phrase that, because what you're doing is you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. That they may think, on the surface, not fully understand your business, that they're in fact helping you give you exposure, give you new contacts, that kind of thing when in fact, as you said, you do need to be compensated, because this is the business. And I think that's something that people can sometimes get lost in, and they are well intentioned. You can't necessarily come back with negativity.

Lyss Stern:
Absolutely. I think that if you come back with negativity, at least from the beginning, from right on, it's not going to get you anywhere, but sometimes they really might not understand what you are, who your business is and what you really do. So just again, send an email, really show them what you do or set up a phone call with them or even have a meeting, go for coffee, have a lunch meeting and be a person and talk about what you do. So I think that they get a better understanding and then hopefully they can wrap their head around it and see the value and see the worth. And I think that's really important.

Bobbi R.:
Do you try to let them say the number first in terms of budget?

Lyss Stern:
I do. A lot of times I'll say to the company, "What are you looking to do? What is your budget?" And a lot of times they'll come back to me, and they'll say, "Well, what can you do for this amount? What can you do for that amount?" And sometimes they'll say to me, "Well, I don't really know, so can you give me a breakdown of what things cost?" Which I'll do always. I think a lot of times a lot of companies today don't pay, because they don't have to, because a lot of times people or companies or influencers might do stuff for free, which is fine and great. Or they might do stuff for products, I mean whatever that's wonderful. But we, my company, happens to be a for-profit business, so I just need to make that clear from early on.

Bobbi R.:
All right, let's move on to your everyday money tip, because this one made me really happy. Tell us.

Lyss Stern:
Okay. I have three children, and we love to go for ice cream. However, there is a great way to save money for ice cream. For us as adults, they always do offer kiddie cups and kiddie cones. They might not show it out on the counters-

Bobbi R.:
And they don't always tell you, which is tricky with the kids. You have to be proactive, because your kids are going to see the bigger sizes.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. You have to be proactive. You have to ask, they most usually do not put the kiddie cone, or the Kiddie cup out there, especially during the summertime, their busiest time. And same thing for going for a ladies lunch. A lot of times you don't have to order the whole salad. You could ask for half a salad, and it also affects the cost, obviously. They're just little tips about food that you can, obviously, save a few dollars by asking and being proactive.

Bobbi R.:
Always order the small or even just order an appetizer. If you're super hungry, of course, eat what you want to eat, but if you're really just there to spend time with your friends, and the food is kind of an afterthought. Don't feel you have to order an appetizer, a drink, a full entrée, a dessert, a coffee, tea.

Lyss Stern:
No, it's definitely not necessary.

Bobbi R.:
All right. I want to talk about your books, because in addition to this big business that you re running you're also churning out some books. So your first book was If You Give a Mom a Martini, which I loved. I remember reading that. A 100 ways to find 10 blissful minutes for yourself. We all need that. And, by the way, it applies to dads too, okay.

Lyss Stern:
Yes, it does.

Bobbi R.:
And then your latest one is Motherhood is a B, 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness and Inner Diva, which is a great summer read. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this book was created, because I felt, after having three kids, that I was just on the verge of losing it, losing myself actually. I wasn't feeling well. I was just in a place, my father just passed away, and I remember going to a retreat by myself for a few days. I said to my husband, "I just need to go away for a few days." I went to a retreat, and I remember coming back from that retreat and saying, "I need to start taking care of myself. I need to start putting myself first, because if mom's not happy, kids aren't going to be happy." Motherhood is really hard. I don't think that anybody tells you, there are no parenting books out there that really tell you what motherhood is.

Lyss Stern:
Everyone, sometimes they paint pictures of that it's rainbows and roses and Unicorns every day and it's happiness, and it's ... but it's really hard being a parent, and I think that the book is all about really empowering you to step back and get yourself back. It's like almost like a Stella Got Her Groove Back, right.

Bobbi R.:
When feel like someone gets you.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. And that's really what the book is about, and it's a great beach read, and you could have conversations with your friends and don't forget to have a B-Tini on the beach as well, because we have the recipe in there. It's absolutely delicious, with watermelon juice, and it's just again, taking care of you and putting your foot down and learning to say no and really regaining your inner-B, because motherhood is a B.

Bobbi R.:
All right. Tell us more about where people can find you and learn more about you, DivaMoms, your books, all that good stuff.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So everybody can find me. The best place to find me is on Instagram, which is diva D-I-V-A _ moms M-O-M-S. And you can also find me on Twitter, which is divamoms.com, and of course my website, which is divamoms.com and also on Facebook. I'm very active on Facebook.

Bobbi R.:
You're everywhere.

Lyss Stern:
We have a Divalysscious Moms pages, but we also have a Lyss Stern page where I post a lot of stuff too, and also everybody listening, I'm a little sarcastic online, and I'm a little bit funny I'm a little bit witty, and I'm very real and what you see is what you get.

Bobbi R.:
Which is awesome.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, friends. So the most upsetting thing about Liz's story is that while the whole craisins thing with the currency was pretty unbelievable, the idea that potential clients will try to convince you that they have no money is not unusual, especially when it comes to Mompreneurs. Let's face it. So Financial Grownup tip number one, every time you take on a client that pays you a low market or less than you want or need, the time that you used to work for that client is time you are not using to find better paying-work or to do better-paying work. So for example, let's say Lyss decided to work on a client that paid her 20% below what she needed to make a profit, because well, it was better than nothing and maybe she didn't have something else at the time, when that offer came in, those days are locked in.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, so now another potential client comes along, and we'll meet her price, but now she's not available. Don't work with clients who either cannot afford to pay you at the rate that you need to hit your profit targets, and especially don't work with clients that have the resources to pay you appropriately, but choose to try to low ball you.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup tip number two, but here is the caveat to what I just said. If there is a client that, in the short term, cannot afford to pay you in currency, as I joked with Lyss, but you believe they will add value for your brand in a constructive way, it is okay to try to work something out. Don't be stubborn. Not every case is black and white. Live in the gray areas, just not in the red, of course.

Bobbi R.:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. Tell us your Financial Grownup money tips, DM me on the social channels @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, @bobbirebell on twitter, and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownupspodcast. Lyss Stern does not mess around. She is definitely a Financial Grownup, so thanks, Lyss, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Susie Orman Schall was financially content and lacked the motivation to rev up her writing career. Then a ’tough love’ conversation with a friend motivated her to get back to her A game. The mindset change resulted in phenomenal reviews and success for her latest novel, Subway Girls. 

In Susie’s money story you will learn:

-How Susie was not motivated by money in becoming a novelist

-The one thing a friend said that changed her perspective, and leveled up her ambition

-How Susie was able to get an agent for her third novel

-How Susie got a two-book deal for The Subway Girls

In Susie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Susie defines success as a writer

-The change in self worth after quitting her corporate job to be a stay at home mom with three children

-Why earning money makes her feel valued

In Susie’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Resources to get books at a lower cost, including Bookbub

Bobbi and Susie also talk about

-Susie’s latest book “The Subway Girls”

-The economic message that is a theme of “The Subway Girls”

-How Susie researched the book

-The history of the Miss Subways contest

-How Susie got the idea as a foundation for her book

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of financial rewards in self worth

-Why having a second earner can be an important safety net even if one partner is the primary breadwinner

Episode Links

SusieSchnall.com

Get your copy of her latest book “The Subway Girls” 

Follow Susie!

On Twitter @susieschnall

On Instagram @Susieormanschnall

On Facebook Susie Orman Schnall

Check out Susie’s Balance Project interview Series!

Featured on the Balance project:

Reese Witherspoon, Sara Blakely and Sarah Michelle Gellar

BookBub

---

Transcription

Susie Orman Sch:
One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. So that was my college friend and now novelists, Susie Orman Schnall. Her new book, The Subway Girls, was named one of five inspiring career girl stories to enjoy on your commute by Buzzfeed. InStyle called Subway Girls one of 11 bucks to bury your nose in the summer, and PopSugar called it one of the summer's hottest new books. Not bad, Susie.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. In our interview, Susie gets very candid about the fact that she wasn't really trying that hard with her career as a novelist. She wasn't the breadwinner, so why stress? Well, you will hear why, especially if you dream of turning in your resignation to your boring office job the minute you have kids or other financial resources, and you don't have to go in and work for the money. You need to go in with your eyes open. Here is Susie Orman Schnall.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie Orman Schnall, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on your latest book, huge bestseller already. The Subway Girls getting rave reviews. Wait, I have to read some of these. You were named one of the most anticipated novels of summer by, this is a very long list. I'm just going to read some of them. Refinery 29, PureWow, Working Mother, PopSugar, Parade, and we could go on. I'm so proud of you. I have to tell everyone, we know each other a long time. We were actually college classmates and for one semester we were even roommates. So we've come a long way together and I'm really excited for you.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Likewise. It's wonderful that we can do this now as adults professionally, so it's a great honor to be on your show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we also reconnected when we both decided to get into the book writing business a few years ago. You started when you had a lot on your plate already at home. You had three growing boys, a husband to take care of, a very busy life in the suburbs, and you decided to write books, and you were successful. You had a couple of very good books come out, but your motive wasn't necessarily to earn money. It was really about being fulfilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then one day, one of your friends said something to you that really changed your mindset and resulted in this book, which all your books are good, but this book really is a huge commercial success and has taken your career to a new level. Tell us about what that friend said and what happened.

Susie Orman Sch:
What happened with my first is I wasn't able to secure a literary agent, and so I ended up self publishing it. And then it got picked up by a small publisher, and that was really a wonderful experience for me. I really loved being with that publishing house. So for my second novel, which is called The Balance Project, I didn't even try to get an agent and go the traditional publishing route. I stayed with my publisher because I was comfortable there, they treated me really well. It was just a kind and gentle way to publish a book.

Susie Orman Sch:
And then I was talking to a friend who also happens to be a life coach, and she said something that changed my entire framework. One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me. It kind of gave me more of a sense of urgency.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you then implement changes? What happened that was different?

Susie Orman Sch:
So I ended up writing the book, but instead of just opting to go with the publisher who I had been with who I still absolutely love, I went and queried the book and tried to get an agent, and I was successful. That was really one of the most wonderful professional experiences that I'd had because I knew that it was going to set me up to take me to a different level with this book. And then she put it in on submission, and I got an offer from St. Martin's Press for a two book deal.

Susie Orman Sch:
Right away, I felt like a completely different person. It gave me a validation as an author that I didn't have before. So I'm just so grateful that she made me think, well, what if? You know, stop staying in your comfort zone. Go outside of that and try something hard and something uncomfortable. Be comfortable being uncomfortable because that's how you get where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also brought you more financial rewards.

Susie Orman Sch:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners?

Susie Orman Sch:
I think of my success in the fact that I wrote these books and they were published, and they get great response from readers. To me, that is success. That makes me feel fulfilled and I feel like I've already won. The sales of the book are kind of the icing on the cake and that is because I don't have to earn a living as an author. But I don't really want to act like I don't have to earn a living as an author because, as we all know, everything can change.

Susie Orman Sch:
I was fortunate enough, and I'll use that word "fortunate" and then I'll qualify it in a minute, that when I started having children, I was able to quit my full time job. I was working for an internet company and earning a nice living that made me feel like I had value. I stopped working so that I could be a full time stay at home mom. Unfortunately, that didn't make me feel valuable, and what I realized is that earning a paycheck is something that's important to me.

Susie Orman Sch:
I don't judge other people's choices. Stay at home mom, full time working mom, whatever people want to do is great, but I do know that for myself, earning money makes me feel valued, and feeling valued is really important. It's very hard as a full time state home mother. You don't get a lot of recognition and validation for your work, and I do call it work. And so I started freelancing very soon after I had my first son, and that led into writing the novel. But the lesson for me is that if it makes me feel a certain way, then I absolutely need to do whatever it is to make that happen for myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip because this is something that I think a lot of our listeners who love to read books will really find a lot of value in.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yeah, so I love to read books, and I find myself buying more books than I can read. Luckily now, authors give me their books and I go to the library. I'm constantly inundated by books, but one wonderful resource is called BookBub and that's B-O-O-K-B-U-B as in book, U, book. And it's a website and if you go on there and you sign up with your email address and you put down what genre books you like, then every day, you get an email with daily deals of books that are ninety nine cents or $1.99 or even free, and it's a great way to load up your Kindle with books and not spend a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. I want to talk about Subway Girls a little bit more and about the economic message of this book because people looked at this campaign and it almost looked like a beauty pageant, but in fact, it was actually a way at the time, as I see it, an opportunity for many of these women to have economic opportunity that they might not have otherwise had.

Susie Orman Sch:
Exactly. So my novel, The Subway Girls, is historical fiction and it's based on fascinating Miss Subways Contest, which was essentially a beauty contest that took place in the New York City subway system from 1941 to 1976. So my novel is dual storyline and the 1949 story features two young females who are competing for the Miss Subways title, and then in 2018, you have a female advertising executive who's pitching the MTA, comes across the Miss Subways campaign in her research. The two story lines intersect, and that's where the fun begins.

Susie Orman Sch:
But the initial, the motivation for both of the women is to find professional success. They both are incredibly ambitious, my main character in 1949, along with my main character in 2018, and they both have different motivations and reasons why professional success is so important to them. And for both of them, it ends up that the Miss Subways Contest, even though my 2018 character doesn't actually compete for Miss Subways, but it's this contest that allows them to fulfill their ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
It represents economic dreams because that is a way out, especially for the character in the 1940s. That is a way to basically not "just be a housewife," which is what she was fighting against. At the time, there were very limited opportunities for women. She would have basically just worked for her father. She did have someone that wanted to marry her and she put off getting married because she wanted to do other things.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yes, Charlotte is, she was unique for her time and she didn't want to have to go only with the constraints, what the expectations were for her by society, by her family, by herself, by her professors. They all wanted something for her and she just completely butted up against that box and wanted to get out of it. She found that, for various reasons, and you'll have to read the book to find out, that the Miss Subways Contest was her ticket out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did a lot of research for this book. What happened in terms of their career paths for these women, the ones that you were able to interview?

Susie Orman Sch:
It was amazing. A lot of them, this became a stepping stone to a career either as an entertainer, or a model, or a singer. The very first Miss Subway was Mona Freeman. In 1941, she became a big Hollywood star. I actually coordinated a reunion a couple of days ago for Miss Subways in New York City. We had about 15 Miss Subways. The earliest one was Miss Subways of 1946, and the latest one was the very last Miss Subways in 1976.

Susie Orman Sch:
I just got to hear so many stories from them about how this launched their careers. These were every day New York city girls next door, and to have this opportunity to be seen as special, and to get recognition, and then have that launch into a career, was just something that changed most of their lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you first discover this and decide to write about it?

Susie Orman Sch:
I was actually driving in my car and listening to NPR and a story came on about the Miss Subways Contest and I was floored. I found it fascinating. I had worked in advertising, so that was relatable. And just this small slice of New York City history was beyond. And so I went home and I started doing research on the contest. Everything about it was fascinating to me, especially because it was rooted in this whole concept of female ambition, and women seeking their professional and personal dreams, and how this contest aided and abetted them with that. So the more research I did and I ended up interviewing former Miss Subways and hearing about their experiences, I realized that this would be a great foundation for a novel, and took it from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you took it very well. I loved this book. I read it in, literally, one day. I couldn't put it down, and it's truly summer beach reading at its best and more. So congratulations on all your success. Where can people learn more about you, about The Subway Girls, and how to follow you?

Susie Orman Sch:
So the best place is my website, which is susieschnall.com, and that's S-U-S-I-E-S-C-H-N-A-L-L .com. And that has all of my social media links, and links for my books, and also my Balance Project interview series, which you're featured on. That is where I interview women about work life balance, but not from the perspective that we should all be trying to achieve this perfect level of work life balance, but more revealing it for what it is, as something that's hard to be perfect and absolutely no reason why we should try.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've had some major stars on there by the way. Do some name dropping.

Susie Orman Sch:
Okay. Reese Witherspoon has done the interview. Sara Blakely, who founded Spanx. I have the founders of The Skim. I have women from all walks of life, all different professions, and it's a really ... There are 175 interviews posted up there now, and it's a really great way to see how different women are dealing with this challenge of work life balance. I know that there's a lot of pushback about, why do we ask women about work life balance, but semantics aside, a lot of women are interested how other women are dealing with it. So this interview series gives a way for women to see that everybody's struggling with it. Everybody's making sacrifices. We're not alone in that regard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you so much, Susie. This was great.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie was pretty candid, and I appreciate that she was honest about some things. We aren't always comfortable talking about in public and saying out loud, that she just wasn't all that into being a stay at home mom, that she didn't feel valued. She didn't feel validated until she started making money again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, admit that for most of us, many of us at least, money, our paycheck, does make us feel appreciated. There's a great scene in Mad Men where the character of Peggy goes into her boss, Don Draper, and she complains that he never says thank you, and his answer of course is, "Well, that's what the money is for." If that happened today, I would hope that instead of Peggy wanting a thank you, Peggy would ask for a raise. In other words, it is okay for your work to be about the money. Bonus points for fulfillment, of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Susie talks about not being stressed out because she wasn't the breadwinner. Well, I'm glad she did get the wake up call from her friend. Twice, I have unexpectedly and temporarily, thankfully, been the primary breadwinner for my family. One time, my ex husband's job just ended after a merger, not his fault in any way. Nothing we could have seen ahead of time. Another time, my family was hit by the recession and while my husband landed very well and pretty quickly, we were both glad that I had some money coming in along with benefits like health insurance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make the choice that is right for your family, but it's never a bad idea to have two incomes, even if one is much lower than the other. You'll be glad to have it if something happens and a lot of the time, at least once in your life, something's going to happen. Family, multiple income streams. If you are not already, please subscribe to the podcast and while you are there, manually change the settings to automatically download episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We put out these episodes three times a week. They're about 15 minutes, so you can easily fit one, two, or more episodes into your listening time and make it work for you. Be in touch. DM me your thoughts on the podcast @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. To learn more about the show and get the show notes with links to everything that we talk about, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to Susie Orman Schnall for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Influencer author Brittany Hennessy shares her strategies for getting large raises even when companies push back. Her book, Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand In the Age of Social Media, focuses on strategies for content creators to monetize influence. 

In Brittany’s story you will learn:

-Why she did not negotiate her first job offer

-The strategy she used to get a raise from $35,000 to $55,000 after just 6 months

-How she got yet another $20,000 jump in pay not long after

-Why the third time she tried to get a raise, she got a different result, and how she moved forward from there

In Brittany’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate

-When to walk away

-How to look at job interviews as a two way street, and integrate that into your strategy

In Brittany’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The importance of staying in touch and being reachable if your work demands that. 

-The consequences of not being available when an opportunity comes up

-How to put the pressure to disconnect in perspective relative to your reality

Bobbi And Brittany also talk about

-Her new book Influencer

-The four parts of Brittany’s book: Building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future.

-The Don’t be that Girl sections of the book

-The mega influencers that Brittany interviewed for the book

-How being an influence is a lot of work, sometimes a lot more than a traditional job, with none of the financial security

-Many of the most successful influencers went years without any financial compensation

-How brands can get more transparent value working with influencers, where they see the specific impact, compared to traditional celebrities on traditional media platforms

-Brittany’s #1 piece of advice for aspiring influencers

In My Take you will learn:

-Disconnecting from technology is a good thing- but if your business is tied to being reachable- make sure you are still reachable. 

-Use apps to limit and control the amount of time wasted on social media,so you can be more productive and focus on income generating activities

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Brittany Hennessy on her website: https://brittanyhennessy.com/

Read Brittany’s Book #Influencer!

 

Follow Brittany!

Instagram @mrsbrittanyhennessy

 

Here are some roundup articles with apps to turn off social media:

https://www.reviewed.com/smartphones/features/10-apps-that-block-social-media-so-you-can-stay-focused-and-be-more-productive

 

https://www.teensafe.com/blog/best-app-limits-social-media-time-iphones/

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apps-to-reduce-screen-time-iphone-android/

 

Reward Style

Shop Style Collective

Learn how Brittany Hennessy negotiated a 57% raise on this Financial Grownup podcast episode. http://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/britannyhennessy

---

Transcription

Brittany Hennes:
I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken, because $50,000 is a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownup friends. So, I think we would all like to make $50,000 for a day's work. It almost makes that famous quote from supermodel, Linda Evangelista, the one where she says she doesn't get out of bed for less than $10,000 seem a little quaint.

Bobbi Rebell:
Apparently, according to our guest, Brittany Hennessy, at least one influencer didn't pick up the phone and missed out on $50,000. That is a very expensive missed call.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Thanks for spending some time with us here at Financial Grownup. We keep it to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge if you have a bit more time, and it would mean the world to us if you would hit that subscribe button. Go into settings and then set up automatic downloads. Automation is everything just like with investing, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to Brittany Hennessy. She is the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and she was a pioneer in the influencer field, first as a nightlife blogger, and then she worked as an influencer for brands including Bacardi, Pop Chips and The Gap, as well as having amazing assignments like ooh going enough to Germany for [inaudible 00:01:46] and hanging out with Rihanna and live tweeting about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her book, Influencer, is really a first. Even if you aren't in the content creator influencer world, you should definitely check it out. We're going to talk a little bit about that too. Here as Brittany Hennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Brittany Hennessy. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Brittany Hennes:
Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations are in order. Your book, which has only been out a week, Influencer, Building Your Personal Brand in the Age of Social Media, already an Amazon bestseller, so congratulations.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you very much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I know you've been very busy. Tell us just a little bit about you, your background and what you've been up to. The last week or two you've been touring around with your book.

Brittany Hennes:
Yeah, I'm currently the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and here I book all of the branded content talent across all of our digital platforms and spent a lot of time working with influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
My background, for the last five years, has been in influencer marketing and just realizing that a lot of influencers were not getting the education and resources that they needed to be successful in this industry, and that's mostly because it's a new industry. There are not a lot of people who could give that sort of advice, and I love giving advice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought a great money story to share, and it has to do with getting paid more, which you're so good at it. So tell us.

Brittany Hennes:
So my money story ... My first job that I had after a long break of freelancing, and I had just taken the job at the amount, it was $35,000, and I was really happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us what the job was. What were you doing?

Brittany Hennes:
Oh it was to be ... So, I was the social media manager of a fitness chain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Brittany Hennes:
And happy to have a steady paycheck, have health insurance. And so I took the number, even though it was much lower than what I wanted, and after the first six months I realized that I can't live on this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well wait, had you tried to negotiate it at the beginning or you just took it because you just wanted to be working?

Brittany Hennes:
You know what? I knew better to negotiate, and I was scared. And so, I think that happens to a lot of people. We're afraid that if we negotiate, a company will take back the offer. And so that is a lesson I learned the hard way and quickly course corrected when I asked for my first raise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did not negotiate it all when they made you your very first offer for the job?

Brittany Hennes:
I did not, and that's something I think everyone should do, and I've done every time since.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, let's go on. But then things get better?

Brittany Hennes:
Things get better. So, I put together a big proposal, and I asked for promotion, and I asked for a $20,000 raise, and they gave it to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, you asked ... Let's just slow that down. You asked for $20,000 on a $35,000 base. How did you present that case?

Brittany Hennes:
You know, I think it really was explaining what I had been doing at the company and the returns they had been seeing, because they hadn't really been a digital company at all, and I really put them on the map with social media, digital advertising, and I had the numbers to show. Like before I started working here, this is how many signups you were regenerating. This is how much revenue you are making. And in the six months I've been here, here are the new numbers. So, they more than make up for the increase I'm asking for, and unless you want to go back to not making as much money, you should give me what I'm asking for, and they took the bait.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. Then, you actually did it again though.

Brittany Hennes:
I did it again. Once I was grooving at that new level, I also stepped up the amount of work I was doing. I really stepped into like a brand director role, and we had an apparel line that we made. We had a radio station that we were playing in all the locations. So, really doing things that increased the brand value of the company, and that's something that translated into reviews online, into sales, into word of mouth. And again, when you can show that you're adding value, I think you should not be afraid to ask for a hefty bump. And I asked for another $20,000, and I got that as well.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think, you know, if you're working hard and you're adding value, and you can put that on paper and quantify it real numbers, you should not be afraid to ask for more money because your job will give it to you, and if they don't, they don't appreciate you, and you probably should look for a new job anyway.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if they'd come back and said, "We agree you're worth this, but we don't have that in our budget."

Brittany Hennes:
So, that's actually what happened the third time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you went back for more. How far apart? It was six months for the first time, and how much between each subsequent time?

Brittany Hennes:
Six months for the first time, and then I think a year and a half for the second time because I was there for almost three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And then you came back the third time.

Brittany Hennes:
And my last negotiation came at the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And?

Brittany Hennes:
And they didn't have it. They said, "You know, you're great, and we don't have it." And I think you can either be able to walk away, which I was able to walk away, and I had also gotten another job offer that was for significantly more than they were paying me, so I was willing to walk away. Or, you know, if you can't, then you can look into trade offs. Like, if you can't give me X amount, can I have more vacation? Can I have a work from home day? Can I, you know, have shorter days? I think, if you really love your job, and the job is not just about the money. It's also about the work-life balance that you have.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners when you look at a big picture in sort of a broader sense of how it can apply to our listeners' lives?

Brittany Hennes:
I think the lesson there is really when you're going into a job situation, to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate for what you want, and also be prepared to walk away.

Brittany Hennes:
I think lots of times we're very much, "I hope they like me." And we forget that interviewing for a job is a two-way street. Of course, you're going to be able to work at this great company and all the perks that come with it, but this company is benefiting greatly because they're going to get to have you as an employee.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I want to talk about your everyday money tip because it's fascinating and brilliant, because it goes against the grain.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're in a period where a lot of people are saying, "We look at our phones too often. We need to completely detach, turn it off, put it away for a full day or whatever it is and be in the moment." But that could be very expensive and could be a money mistake. So, what's your everyday money tip?

Brittany Hennes:
My everyday money tip is don't play hard to get and definitely be present.

Brittany Hennes:
I work with a lot of influencers who, I email them, I have contracts, I have offers. Sometimes it's four or five, six figures, and they don't respond because they just didn't get around to it, and they're always heartbroken when they try and connect with me later, and the opportunity has passed them.

Brittany Hennes:
So, I think, you know, it's definitely important to disconnect and recharge, but you still need some sort of out of office-on even if it's just letting people know that you only check email twice a day, and the next time you'll check is that this time because you never know what's sitting in your inbox or in your voicemail, and you have to make sure you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
Without naming names, what's the worst case that this ever happened?

Brittany Hennes:
I won't name names because the poor girl's probably still traumatized by it, but I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken because $50,000 is a lot of money for anybody.

Brittany Hennes:
Even Warren Buffet, if you want to give him $50,000, would probably take it. Why not? It's a nice amount of money, and she could have made that doing relatively little work, you know, compared to what a lot of people have to do for $50,000, and she just wasn't there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Heartbreaking. All right, let's talk about Influencer because, as I said, I love this book, and I don't know that there's any other book out here yet that lays it all out so clearly and in such a specific way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your expert tips. You have throughout the book this Don't Be That Girl, which is a lot of no-BS advice for people as to what you can't do. Tell us more about the book and what went into it.

Brittany Hennes:
The book is broken out into four parts, building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future, and it's really just giving you tips and practical advice. Like I even give email templates on if someone asks you this, you should write back this, because I think part of what makes people successful is having a formula and having some sort of standard, and influencer marketing is still so young that there really hasn't been anything that's been created that's a textbook, and that's really what I tried to write.

Brittany Hennes:
And I think my favorite part ... I really liked the icons that I interviewed eight mega influencers who were at the top of their game, but I do really like, Don't Be That Girl just because I think it's really ... I think it's really funny, and people always like horror stories, and so I had to change some details so that people aren't easily identified, but the meat of the story and how ridiculous some of the [inaudible 00:10:49], they are a hundred percent true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You talk about the request that some of them put forward as if they were celebrities of a caliber that they just are not at this point, but because they live in this bubble, they believed that they are.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think another good thing that I love about the book is that you make it very clear that they treat this like a job, and in most cases it's not even a solo job. It is a job with multiple people working on these brands. So, it may look very carefree, these beautiful photos, but in fact, they're very planned. The equipment is specific. The lighting, the filters. The other people working on it have very targeted jobs. This is work even though you say it's eight hours, for example, for $50,000 that that person missed out on. To be at the caliber where you ae being offered $50,000 for eight hours of work and an Instagram post, that person probably was working for many years very hard.

Brittany Hennes:
That's 100 percent true, and I think that's the part people miss when they, I think, are a little disgusted, might be the proper word, about how much some of these top-tier influencers are making, and a lot of these women weren't making that much money until recently, and some of them have been YouTubers, bloggers, Instagram stars for 10 years, and for the first five they made $0.

Brittany Hennes:
People just think they snap one photo and slap it on Instagram. Have you ever taken one photo of yourself? It's not perfect. You take at least five. And so, they're taking hundreds, then doing select, then editing, and that's even before they were mood boarding the clothing and the locations and getting permits, and they're ... You know, if you think of any major brand that does a photo shoot, they're doing the exact same thing just sometimes on a smaller scale.

Bobbi Rebell:
Brands can tell on a much more granular level exactly what return they're getting. So, if you were a traditional celebrity and you're in a shampoo ad on TV, they never know how many bottles of shampoo they sold. But it's much easier, somewhat, to track the impact of an influencer campaign.

Brittany Hennes:
Absolutely. Between ... Even if you just look at basic media, if you're looking at engagements, the cost per click, the cost per impression, we have those data points now because Instagram is providing them, and YouTube provides them, and then you have huge affiliate networks like Reward Style and you know, Shop Style Collective where influencers can actually see how much product they're moving because they make commission off of it.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think Reward Style has crazy numbers that like in a very short period, they did a billion dollars worth of sales, and companies like Nordstrom, 80 percent of their mobile traffic comes from influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
And so, brands can really see the difference that influencers are making, and it's not just enough to make great content, you also have to be able to move product.

Brittany Hennes:
And the girls who are commanding six figures for a campaign, they can do both really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, final question on this. Number one piece of advice for people that want to be an influencer that earns money.

Brittany Hennes:
Number one piece of advice is make sure you are in it for the right reasons. Everything is great, but everything, once it is your job, is now a job, and you may not want to get up some days, but you still have to go and shoot content. Definitely pick something that is your passion. And if you could do it and no one would pay you, you would do it anyway, because it will be a while. It can be a short while or a long while until you see real revenue from it. So, you definitely want to make sure you don't burn out before your time comes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great Advice. Tell us where we can follow you because you are an influencer in your own right.

Brittany Hennes:
I'm on Instagram. That's my primary channel at MrsBrittanyHennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Brittany.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you so much. This was so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so Brittany did not hold back. Here's my take on it though. Financial grownup tip number one. There is a big trend now that we should take breaks from our technology, and that is a really good thing, but if you have a job where you need to be reachable, be reachable.

Bobbi Rebell:
One option is to use, for example, the do not disturb feature settings on your phone. So, within there, you can set it up so that the calls from one group, let's say VIPs are allowed. You can also usually set it up so that repeated calls get through. That way if someone's calling you over and over again to hand you money, like $50,000, you may notice repeated calls and eventually they will get through to you. You can also, obviously, have some kind of message on your voicemail telling people to call someone like an assistant that can reach you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. While we are talking about phone settings, one way to not make money is to always be on social media, unless of course that is literally your work. Then be on social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are all kinds of apps and settings that can put controls in, so you won't be distracted by all the apps on your phone, but you can leave the right things on and use the setting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to list some roundup articles with a bunch of these, but a couple to check out are Moments, Off Time, and Freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for sharing your time with us DM me and tell me what your financial grownup tips are. I am at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook, and you can get the show notes, for example, with the links of those articles for this episode BobbiRebell.com/podcast/BrittanyHennessy, and all of the show notes follow that same pattern where it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast, and then forward slash and the guest's name. And we have lots of great information there, including links to their books, where you can find them on social media and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you for Influencer author, Brittany Hennessy, for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.