Posts tagged Career
Grownup alert! How to be ready to exit your job- and be ready for what’s next.
Grownup alert! How to be ready to exit your job- and be ready for what’s next.
 

Media all-star Kim Rittberg gets us ready to exit our jobs the right way, and previews her new podcast: Mom’s Exit Interview.

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life By Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Kim Rittberg:
Figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups. Quick ask, before we get into today's topic. I need your help big time. My book Launching Financial Grownups is out and I need your help to get this information to more grownups who can use the advice from my amazing experts in the book. As you know, I wrote Launching Financial Grownups because I was struggling and the information in this book has been everything to me. If you have not already, please pick up a copy. Please get one for a friend or a relative. And also this is so important, please take just a couple of minutes to leave a review on Amazon. We will have a link for that in the show notes. And if you have a group that you think would benefit from having me come to speak to them in person or virtually, get in touch. It's super easy. On my website, just hit the button on the top right that says Work with Bobbi and we can get in touch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now to this episode's topic. Are you curious about the Great Resignation? Are you reading about some scary stuff in the job market like rescinded job offers or people that regret quitting? Maybe you are already in the thick of it, but how do we make sure it doesn't turn into the great regret, whatever we're doing. We have you covered with the most amazing guest Kim Rittberg. Kim Rittberg has had the most phenomenal career in the media business with stints everywhere, from Netflix to Fox and PopSugar. She even launched Us Weekly Television.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then she had that aha moment. You probably have had it too if you're listening to this, and realized she wanted more control. And if we're being honest, more upside potential by stepping out on her own.

Bobbi Rebell:
But of course it's never that simple. We grownups know it never is. I've shared my own three year exit strategy from when I left my job as a business news anchor at Thompson Reuters. But what if you don't want to wait three years or you just can't, and what if you don't know where you want to go, just that it's not where you are right now? Kim and I talk about all of that and then get very specific in our interview with what you need to know before you make your exit, including, of course, the financial things we need to be putting in place. And my favorite, how do you know where to invest in your business as you are building it? Where do you put your resources? It's often limited. Where do you outsource? And how do you even find the right people to help you? It's a lot. So listen carefully to Kim. She gets it and she has incredible advice. Here is Kim Rittberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim Rittberg, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much for calling me a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are such a grownup. We've been gabbing a lot while we've been getting set up because you have a new podcast that has just debuting. It is called Mom's Exit Interview. And I asked you to come on to talk about exit strategies when we want to make big changes in our life. But first tell us about Mom's Exit Interview.

Kim Rittberg:
Yeah, so Mom's Exit Interview is pretty much a resource for moms to thrive when they've ditched the 9:00 to 5:00. Because people don't realize you think that there's stay at home mom, and then 90 hour work weeks on the corporate ladder. There's so much in between. And this podcast is an amazing resource. So every single episode, there's a mom, a real mom with an inspirational story where she's carving her own path and an expert with tips to guide you. So it's really meant to be that inspiration and action paired together.

Kim Rittberg:
And the reason I came up with it was sort of my baby. I had worked in media for about 10 years in TV. I launched the video unit for Us Weekly, like complete dream job. Like I made it. I was like, I made it. I'm such a big deal. It was awesome. I ran an 18 person team. I had my first baby, my baby, actual baby, and Us Weekly, my other baby. But what happened was when I being pregnant with my second, we were required, and I was in the hospital room having my second baby looking through resumes of all the people quitting, looking around at all the executives who were getting fired. I still had my job, but I thought, "Whew, I have no control." And so that really made me think I got to rethink my career. I need to take back control. If this is what success means, this is not the version of success I want.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because, so your podcast is about the mom experience, but the truth is that, and that is often sort of the tipping point for making a change is when you have a change in terms of your family dynamics, whatever that may be, this applies to anyone. Right now, we're going through what many people are referring to as the Great Resignation because so many of us are now rethinking where we want to be, what's going on around us. I mean, you weren't necessarily being forced to make a change, but you had this aha moment. Tell us about what you think about the broader picture of what's going on these days in society, because that had to have inspired this new podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Absolutely. So I, funny enough, right before the pandemic is when I decided to work for myself. When I tell people about this idea, dads, millennials, all people are like, "What a great idea. Why is it just for moms?" I'm like the idea is not just for moms. It's really for people who want to take control. And I think you're seeing that entrepreneurial, grab the reigns mentality, strike more people. But I do think that parents were feeling it more during the pandemic because all of the things that make a parent feel stretched thin before really rose to the surface in a very visceral way. Never before have parents had to homeschool and work at the same time. It's just it was a banana situation, but those little pieces had been happening for a long, long time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Assuming that we have a choice because sometimes people have to exit what they're doing without a choice, but if we have a choice, what things should people do beforehand to be most ready to have an exit?

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. Because on the show, I've conducted tens of hours of interviews with real moms. And we have surveys of hundreds of moms that filled out this survey for the podcast about what they're looking for. And people quit with a plan, without a plan, but I do think there are some general guardrails in place. So in my experience, I left Us Weekly, I knew I wanted to work for myself. I actually didn't have the courage or confidence to do it for another two years.

Kim Rittberg:
So a lot of times I think people have those sort of mental blocks of, can I do it? Is this really the right move? And then there's the tangible things. Do you have enough money? Do you have insurance or does your partner have insurance?

Kim Rittberg:
So some of the things to prepare are A, if you're going to exit, what are you entering? Do you want to be an entrepreneur and grow a huge company? Do you want to be a part-time worker? Do you want to be a consultant? But figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go and it doesn't have to be career A. It doesn't have to be job B, but you should have your priorities really clear because otherwise you're going to find yourself going to the right, going to the left, not really knowing which direction to really lock in on. So get clear on what you want. Your priorities are the top thing.

Kim Rittberg:
Secondly, figure out your financial situation. It is different for everyone. Some people have a lot of savings. Perhaps they have a partner with insurance and childcare. That makes it obviously a clearer path to take an exit. So figure that out. You obviously need to cover housing, food, childcare, but think about which of those things are temporary and which are permanent.

Kim Rittberg:
One of the other things I think is super helpful that I've learned from the podcast, I was talking to Gretchen Rubin, the Happiness Guru, who is amazing. She's amazing. I'm like, I love you. I also love you, Bobbi. We were talking about chapters and how life can be in chapters. So another helpful framework is you're slamming a door. You didn't lock the door with a bolt and never go back. You do always have the opportunity to reenter whatever it is you want to. You don't have to go back, but you can go right, you can go left, you can go forward. So I think the framework of knowing that an exit could be an entrance to something else and you get to decide what that is. A lot of people think of it's that old, famous video of that Jet Blue person, this flight attendant who jumped out the window and quit, and storming out of your job and lighting it on fire. It doesn't have to be that. There are a lot of ways to exit and enter something that's really satisfying.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you balance the amount of planning you do with the actual doing? Because I have had friends that say, "I'm going to make a move," and then it doesn't happen. Or you also, sometimes people, as you just alluded to, take the leap and it's so dramatic and I'm just going to walk in and quit. Maybe they haven't thought it out well. So how do you kind of know what the balance is? And I say that, and I will talk about this on your podcast, I really took three years before I exited my corporate job. I did a lot of planning, but it was very specific with a timeline and everything. How do you balance that? Because you can spend forever planning.

Kim Rittberg:
You can definitely spend forever planning. I 100% agree with you. I spent two years knowing I wanted to work for myself, but not really understanding the financials of that. And finally, one day I said, "I'm going to do it. I'm going to network. I'm just going to see what happens." And I've had two and a half years of making good money doing some of the best work of my life, getting awards. You have to be clear in what you want. I think that clarity has to come.

Kim Rittberg:
Some of the tips that I have learned through the podcast is generally some of the ways that you can figure out that next step, if you have the time, obviously it's very hard to find the time, start doing that next thing as a side hustle. See if you like it, see if the money makes sense. See if there's clients out there, are people wanting what you're selling? So that's one way is to dip your toe in as a side hustle. The other thing is to make sure you have that financial cushion to make sure that you're not just quitting your job and then you feel unemployed. You don't want to feel unemployed. You want to feel empowered.

Kim Rittberg:
And the actual timeline, some people plan a business for years before they launch and other people spend six months, they make their plan. So getting the resources, like tapping into people. Getting your mentors, getting your coaches, doing that business plan, talking it out, and getting on the same page with your spouse or partner if you have one. That's another big thing is if you're going to make a big move, your whole house has to be aligned to that move, or it's going to be very hard for you to handle that. As you know, financial stress is the top stress for partners. So if you are going to make a move, your whole house has to be okay with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And it is important to understand the difference between procrastination and planning, and understanding the balance of that. Once you make this leap and you do exit, Kim, one of the things that I worry about with people because I've been approached, fortunately, I don't think I've been scammed yet, but there's a lot of people... And it's not just scammed. There's a lot of people that can actually legitimately help you. That can really help you clarify, especially if you're a little bit lost, they can clarify with you what you want to be doing, because it is complicated. There are things that might be part of your business that are marketing and things that are revenue producing. And you have to balance that because some things can be so much fun, but they will never produce income. And if you want to have income for your family, you have to really have an understanding of that. How do you figure out who to bring in to help you and what kind of investments to make? Especially if maybe it's early and you don't have the cash flow to just pay for it out of your business, or if you need the cash flow to be supporting your family.

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. And I think there are several different points of view on this. Some people are in the camp of delegate everything, and delegate everything even before you're ready to. So when I was running a big company, I was like, "I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to delegate." Now that I run my own company, I do delegate, but I wait till I feel like I really need it and before I'm at that breaking point, then I hire help for that.

Kim Rittberg:
But in terms of bringing on coaches and all of that, there are a lot of people out there who would like to make money off of you. That's across the world. You go into a store, everyone's trying to sell you something, but figure out who you need to help you get to the next level. For some people, it's a business coach. You actually need to sit down and have your business plan. So on our podcast, I have this entrepreneur media business development consultant, and he gives you tips on how to find clients, how to price your business, how to make a business plan. If you don't know how to do those things, that's the right type of person to bring on. For other people, it's a graphic designer or it's a branding consultant because I think that when you're ready to take that next step, you need to have a brand identity and you need to really like have a good brand presence. Your socials, your site, all that stuff, but you have to be able to separate it.

Kim Rittberg:
And I think there are also a lot of people on social media, the idea that you have to be on social all the time, promoting yourself, and then you end up spending all your time there. You have to really think in your mind, balance your time between what is marketing and what is branding, and what is necessary, and where am I making my money?

Kim Rittberg:
So I had a huge year, my very first year actually working for myself. I had a huge year. I was barely on social media. My inbound contacts, all of my work was inbound. All of my clients were inbound. There were people I had met or contacts of contacts, and I did it through networking. So I think it's very important because a lot of people sell products or services that are related to marketing yourself. And I think social media marketing is super important, but you have to remember, at the end of the day, you got your checking and your savings account. How much money are you making? Are you bringing in money? Are these people who are helping you, are they going to help you bring in money? So I think you need to do that. I personally am a big fan of like word of mouth, figuring out are they legit, checking online sites, Better Business Bureau, all the things like that. I mean, a lot of coaches and people I brought on have been word of mouth. They have been recommendations from other business owners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim, you are such a gem. I want to remind everyone that beyond just rewinding this, I do provide transcripts because you're going to want to literally underline and circle everything that Kim has said. This is a tremendous resource. And we're so excited for your new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you, and I know it's going to be everywhere the podcast. So the podcast is everywhere that you listen, make sure to follow and subscribe. I guess we say we have to say follow now, not to subscribe, but where can people find Kim Rittberg?

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much. So kimrittberg.com, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G, is all things me and Mom's Exit Interview is there. And as a part of my business, I do media training and video content strategy. So I'm laughing. I'm like, "Don't hire coaches, except for me." I'm just kidding. But all of my information is that KimRittberg.com and this was so fun. And I really, my goal for the podcast is to be a resource for people to create a more fulfilling life. And so if I'm doing, that's awesome. And thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. I love how Kim gets real at the end of the interview, especially understanding that we have to focus not just on doing what we love, but understanding what will actually bring in revenue. It is something I'm trying to focus on more these days as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you go to my website. It's just my name, BobbiRebell.com, to get the show notes, with links to learn more about Kim's business and her new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. While you are there, make sure to subscribe to my newsletter. There's a link in the show notes and on my website for that. We send the newsletter out every couple of weeks with articles and helpful information that can help all of us be financial grownups and it is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I'm now on TikTok where I'm still figuring it out. Please help me. Give me ideas, give me suggestions, or any feedback in the comments on TikTok. So far, everyone seems to like clips of me on local news sharing advice on saving money and paying down debt and other grownup money skills. You can also find me super easy under my name, just Bobbi Rebell. Same goes for Twitter. And on Instagram, I am @BobbiRebel1. That's Bobbi Rebell with the number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I also want to be helpful to all of you in your business ventures. I would love to come speak at your company or perhaps at a client event. I have virtual and in person programs available on topics, including of course, Launching Financial Grownups. I talk a lot about intergenerational wealth and of course, how to maximize work life benefits. Links to more info on that in the show notes as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Go listen and subscribe to Kim Rittberg's new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview, and big thanks to Kim for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Career, Financial Grownup, Health + Fitness, Personal Finance, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanKim Rittberg, Career, Job, Mom's Exit Interview, Podcast
How to Manage the Career Blah’s with Smart Growth author Whitney Johnson ENCORE
How to Manage the Career Blah’s with Smart Growth author Whitney Johnson ENCORE
 

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

  • Learn how common the Career Blahs

  • Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

  • Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

  • Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

 
 

Follow Whitney!

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

  2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.


Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

 
Career, Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Productivity, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanWhitney Johnson, Smart Growth, Author, Career, Career Tips, Career Blahs
How to Manage the Career Blah’s with Smart Growth author Whitney Johnson
How to Manage the Career Blah’s with Smart Growth author Whitney Johnson
 

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

  • Learn how common the Career Blahs

  • Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

  • Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

  • Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

 
 

Follow Whitney!

Follow Bobbi!


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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

 
Career, Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Productivity, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanWhitney Johnson, Smart Growth, Author, Career, Career Tips, Career Blahs
Your 2022 Grownup career guide with Careers Done Write's Debra Wheatman
Your 2022 Grownup career guide with Careers Done Write's Debra Wheatman
 

Careers Done Write’s Debra Wheatman shares her best tips for Grownups to level up their careers in the new year. 

Career Tips for 2022

  • Write down a list of these things so that you can visualize them.

  • Think about what you would like to achieve in the coming year.

  • Create a plan for getting there. Perhaps you’re looking to be promoted, switch industries, or change careers altogether.

  • Do you feel like you’re too busy to focus on managing your career and your brand?

  • Another thing that will help you in the coming year is single-tasking.

  • How are you at building relationships?

  • Challenge the status quo.

 
 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting; t-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Debra Wheatman:
If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as you may have guessed from the opening sound bite, we're going to talk about careers. I have been having a bit of the career blahs lately. I sense a lot of people do as we are entering year three of the pandemic, which was supposed to be staying home 15 days to stop the spread. Yeah. Well it is what it is. So here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I decided we should do a little miniseries of career episodes for financial grownups starting with this week's guest, who's amazing. Her name is Debra Wheatman. She runs a company called Careers done Write, and Write is spelled W-R-I-T-E. Her genius is in the fact that Debra helps people not just figure out what they're good at and what they should be getting paid for, she also helps kind of package it all up so that your best attributes are front and center and help you land that dream job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Highlights of our interview included talking about the mistakes that we make when we're choosing a career. It was interesting because she has a very different perspective from what I think a lot of parents tell their young adult children. She also has a lot to say about the urge to multitask and some their very interesting suggestions there that you are going to want to hear. She also shares her take on the whole work from home thing, how it's evolving, what we should sort of make ourselves do in person maybe, but also some things that may be better off, I don't know, remotely. It's all okay. You'll love to hear what Debra has to say, so here is the interview with Debra Wheatman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Debra Wheatman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a human capital management strategist. Your company, by the way, is called Careers Done Write. What does that mean?

Debra Wheatman:
Well, we're a writing company and we're a branding company. We work with our clients to help them define, manage, maintain, and grow their brands so they can be successful in their careers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so much more relevant than ever with all the changes going on in the workplace. We don't know what is going on for 2022 in terms of how things will evolve with work from home, with working in the gig economy, how companies are evolving. So this is something that everyone needs to pay attention to, especially our grownups. Let's get into your tips for 2022.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing is just to write things down so you can visualize them. That's something we hear a lot, but you have a different spin on it.

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah. If you write things down, you're obviously going to be more inclined to not only remember them because there's a lot going on upstairs, we don't retain information just by saying, "Well, I'm going to do this. I mean, how many times have you said, "I'm going to do this," and then you forget about it. People do that all the time. If you write things down, you're not only more than likely to then commit to getting them done, crossing them off your list, but also that sense of accomplishment that you get when you write them down, when you complete them, and it allows you to move ahead with purpose. I like to say that because that's an important part of job search, it's an important part of your professional, your personal life, and gives you a feeling of accomplishment when you write things down and then you check them off as you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say that you have to think about what you want to achieve in the coming year, but also very specifically create a plan for being there and be specific. Are you looking to be promoted? Are you looking to switch industries? Are you looking to just change careers altogether? And this is an opportune time because so many different industries are open-minded about maybe mentoring somebody and bringing someone into the fold that they might not have looked at before, but now they need people. So this is kind of a good time, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah, this is definitely a job seekers market. If you are in the middle of the opportunity to do something different, something that maybe has driven you in the past or something that you want to get involved in, now might be a good time to do that because there's been a lot of upheaval. And as a result, because it is a job seekers market, you have more of an opportunity to spread your wings, explore new things and do something perhaps that maybe inspires you in a new and different way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, a lot of people listening to this might say, but, but, but, somehow I'm just so busy. When the pandemic started, we were home and we had so much time. We were baking bread. I did that. We were doing all kinds of home projects. We were having little wine, coffee hours, wine happy hours, whatever you might call it, because we suddenly felt like we had so much time, and now I don't know where the time is going. I mean, we're all so busy. So what do you say to people that just say, I feel like I'm so busy, I don't have time to manage my career or my brand?

Debra Wheatman:
I say to that, that you don't not have time to do it. That is a thing that should be a priority for you because your career, your brand, while I like to think that people are altruistic, there's no altruism when it comes to your ability and the need to make money. You have to support yourself. Maybe you have a family, you're beholden to other people. Whatever it is at the end of the day, the ability to make money and have a life that you want to lead, and take a vacation even, is predicated on your ability to make money. You also, at some point in your life, you're going to retire. You're not going to be working well into your 90s. What does that look like for you? If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting that you say that because we also do have this movement, especially stereotyping a little bit, but maybe not too much, especially among young people that really want to follow their passions and do good, and they get told, well, sometimes that's not going to pay as much. It's a delicate balance because people feel like it's the right thing to do to take these sometimes jobs that don't pay as much in money, but pay a lot in feel good, but they're doing themselves a disservice sometimes when they don't prioritize money.

Debra Wheatman:
That is true. I would say there's more than one way to make yourself feel good and get that gratification that you're looking for. Maybe you don't necessarily do it in your "day job". Maybe you volunteer for an organization that is close to your heart, where you have a really strong connection. Instead of looking at it like I have to do work in this particular area, there are other ways that you can actually give back and get that same thing while still making money that supports you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another misconception is that people feel like if they can multitask, they'll get more done. You are against multitasking for sure.

Debra Wheatman:
Multitasking is not always a great thing. I do like to call it single-tasking instead. You should do one thing, try to complete that and do it properly. If you multitask, you're not going to do any of the things that you have on your list in a way that is either completed or satisfactory to you. If you focus on the one thing and get that thing done, it will be done properly. It will be done on time. It will be done according to the specifications that you hold yourself accountable to, and then you can move on to the next task. And that goes back to my earlier point, what you were asking me about prioritizing and making lists. This is why writing things down is important because then you could check it off, and the single task that you completed, victory is yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
The multitasking, you get sucked into it when you work from home. I mean, I definitely have gotten to the like, oh, I should be doing this, but I'm also doing the laundry and I'm also making lunch for my child, and I'm also doing all this because I have to get it all done. It's really dangerous. We really need to get that under control because we don't know if and when we're going back to the office full time, and we have to find ways to kind of settle in and create new ways to work at home, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, absolutely. Of course feeding your child and doing the laundry and cooking dinner so that everybody has something to eat, all of those things are very important, but if you don't finish the one thing that you had to do that you said I'm going to finish this and then I can move on to this next task, that's an interrupt-driven work style. And I know, because I'm sometimes guilty of that. You'll never get any of them done. And you'll find that instead of getting this thing done and then being able to go and make dinner, if you will, neither of those things will be complete. And the thing that you had to get done that was sort of for traditional work, you're going to be doing that at 10 o'clock at night. How are you going to feel about that? Versus getting it done and finishing it and then saying, okay, once I'm finished with this, I'm now going to go do this other thing that I need to accomplish over here.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really hard, but we do have to learn to set those boundaries because it felt temporary at first, but now a lot of us if we're not going to work from home all the time, it's still going to be a part of our life. One of the hard things also about working from home or even in a hybrid environment is building relationships. Can you talk a little bit about your advice for that and how it pertains to sort of up-leveling your career in 2022?

Debra Wheatman:
Sure. Building relationships is difficult in an online world because while you can see people, the connection that you get from being in person is just not the same thing. The other thing is that you're scheduling these meetings, you're scheduling a Zoom call. It seems sort of disingenuous in some way. I'm going to speak to you today. I'm going to see you on Zoom at 4:00 PM. Versus saying, you know what, meet me at the restaurant. We're going to have some coffee, some wine and some dinner and just get together in person. People like to be around other people. This situation in particular has proven challenging for a number of people because of that.

Debra Wheatman:
Now given the situation that we're in, this is a good way to still connect with people and build those bridges as long as you use the time wisely, as long as it's meaningful for you, with the understanding that when it is safe to go back and meet in person, and when it's feasible to do that, we're going to resume those activities because again, people do like to be around other people. And proximity to other people, not just through a screen, it's important. It's good for our mental wellbeing. It's good for our physical wellbeing. To be able to give someone a hug is an important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
The last point I want to bring up, I can't believe this, we're entering year three. Debra, I remember when they said 15 days to stop the spread. Now we're entering the third year of 2022. We have a new status quo. You say challenge the status quo.

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, challenge the status quo. You don't have to continue to do the same things the way you've done them in the past. The pandemic has taught us if nothing else, that life is fleeting. It has taught us that we can work from home. We can do these things successfully. I know a number of people, a number of my clients who are far more efficient, far more effective working from home than they ever were in the office. And their bosses have said, you know what, stay at home. You're doing great. We love having you there. You're so efficient. Continue to do what you're doing. This is working out wonderfully.

Debra Wheatman:
That doesn't mean that you don't want to show up in the office because you want to show up at some point, out of sight, out of mind, and you want to have a little bit of a balance, but if you're effective working from home and that works for you, then you should pursue that path. And the state of the market the way it is today, the jobs they are showing us online, hybrid, fully remote, in-office, so we're having the opportunity to see what that looks like.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and be in touch?

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you. Yes, if people want to learn more, they can find me debra@careersdonewrite.com. That is my email. You can also go to my website, careersdonewrite. And that's like writing; W-R-I-T-E.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. One of my favorite things about getting to know Debra in that interview is that while she had a definite point of view about things like not taking a low paying job to quote, follow your passion and instead, maybe taking a higher paying job and using that to support your passion or support a cause that you really care about. She's totally nonjudgmental, and it's tough to walk that line. So I think it was pretty cool the way that she approached it. By the way, she is working on a book called Help! To Hired, which will help all of us find meaningful work, but in a way that also helps get you to your financial goals. So keep an eye out for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Speaking of books, my book, Launching Financial Grownups, is on presale. You can buy it in all the usual places. If you go to my website, which is bobbirebell.com, you can learn more about it. It is a huge help if you order it in advance because it helps with algorithms, and it lets the places that sell books know that people are interested, and then those places in turn will make the book more discoverable.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of elaborate pre-order giveaways. That would take a lot of time and money and effort and all that kind of stuff, but I'm putting my effort into things like keeping this podcast super high quality and free for all of you, but it is something that takes time and money. I also put a lot of money and time into my newsletter, also free to you. So your support with the book pre-orders is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next two weeks of this career video series are going to be incredible. I have Whitney Johnson. She is huge coming up next. Her new book is called Smart Growth. We're going to be talking with her more directly about those career blogs that I mentioned at the top of this show and how to get motivated again. And then I'm going to be speaking with Jill Duffy. She wrote The Everything Guide to Remote Work. So please make sure you are a subscriber or are following the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. And please tell your friends to do so as well. I really appreciate your support of the podcast as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, big thanks to Debra Wheatman. Check out her blog at Careers Done Write. She also has a great newsletter, so I encourage you to get on her list as well. And truly grateful for her advice to help us all beat financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbierebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for grown up friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Career, Financial Grownup, Financial Independence, Money, Personal Finance, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanDebra Wheatman, Career, Careers Done Write, Career Tips, Financially Independent
Financial Grownup Guide: 5 essential ways to create a successful business from anywhere with Entrepreneur Cait Scudder
Financial Grownup Guide: 5 essential ways to create a successful business from anywhere with Entrepreneur Cait Scudder
Cait Scudder Instagram

Entrepreneur coach Cait Scudder built a 6 figure business while living abroad overcoming numerous obstacles. She shares her specific strategies to help build a grownup business focused on sustainable product growth and revenue streams. 

5 essential ways to create a successful business

Cait Scudder:
Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here and I'm so excited to be talking about this. I think for so many entrepreneurs, creating a successful business, whether you're running it from a laptop or abroad or whether you're running it out of your living room, feels like it's this enigmatic thing. So, I'm really excited to break down some really tangible steps to help your listeners apply it to their own businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm a little bit of a snob about this. I don't like all this mumbo jumbo. You are specific, and focused, and I love that. So, you've got five tips and then we have some other special stuff after this. So, stick with us, guys. Number one is basically, figure out the problem that you're going to solve for people, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, the first thing I would say if you are looking to build a six-figure business, and scale it to multiple six figures and beyond, is you have to be so crystal clear on the problem that you help people solve. It is not enough to just say, "Well, I want to be a consultant for leaders" or "I want to be a health coach" or whatever other niche that you're in. Dial that right in to get so specifically clear on the problem that you help your clients solve and how you do that with the solution that you offer.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what would be an example of a client that had this problem and how do they really figure out what problem they were solving for?

Cait Scudder:
So, one of the exercises that I lead my clients through, let's take a health-coaching coach, for example. If you are looking to build out a health-coaching business, somebody who helps their clients achieve either weight loss or higher levels of energy, the problem that you might help somebody solve is losing 15 pounds or losing 20 pounds. What you need to do if you want to dial that right in and then be able to build a compelling brand and a compelling message from that is, get super clear. Not only on that problem point as if it's a bullet point in your notebook, but what's the pain that somebody is experiencing as a result of having that problem? So, one of the things that I think happens a lot is entrepreneurs get stuck in this messaging spiral of, well, I'm listing out my client's problems, but they're not responding.

Cait Scudder:
I think the biggest thing that happens when we do that is that we're not actually speaking to the pain, the ripple effect pain I call it, that those problems caused. So, for example, if a client is struggling with low energy, they're feeling overweight, they're feeling not confident in their bodies, how is that actually playing out in their lives? Maybe they can't walk up the stairs without running out of breath. Maybe they can't bend over to pick up their grandchild and not feel like they have to sit down. So, really dialing your messaging straight in to the problem that you help people solve. The pain that it's going to help them get out of in painting the picture and creating offers that help somebody do that in a step-by-step way is such a powerful step for your business and for your marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your second tip, which is to figure out what exactly the offer is.

Cait Scudder:
Exactly. So, the second thing that you need to do is build out an offer. I always say to my clients, especially who offer their services, so consultants, any kind of strategists is, it's very, very important to be able to build a product in your client's mind as if it were a tangible product that you could put on top of your desk. So, if you're offering a six-month consultancy package or a retainer offer, what does that look like? What's the result that somebody is going to get? And the way that you want to think about your offers is in two different pieces. The first is the framework, and the second are the features. So, your framework might look like, for example, in my business coaching consultancy, I have a framework that's based on three different things: energy, strategy, and sales. When you can nail all three of those as a business owner, you are golden.

Cait Scudder:
So, the energy piece is, what does your vibe put out? How are you attracting your ideal client, how you are attracting your audience. The second piece of strategy is, what are the offers that you're building out? How are we marketing you in a way that is magnetic in a way that draws your people in? And thirdly, in sales, obviously, we need to make sales if we're going to be in business. So, what I really recommend entrepreneurs to do if they're struggling to build out an offer, is think about what's the framework that you move somebody through and what are the features? How long is your package for? What does it include? What's the scope of work? And when you can be so specifically clear on the process that you move somebody through, the framework, and the way that you do that in the tangible breakdown, the features, that's when you really have a rock-solid offer to bring to the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third thing is something I am so uncomfortable with myself, get comfortable with marketing. It is so hard, Cait. I feel this personally.

Cait Scudder:
Really, Bobbi? You're definitely not alone. And I have to be honest, at the beginning when I started my business, I felt so uncomfortable with it. I felt like, "Hang on, squawking about all of this stuff that I do for other people like this is so uncomfortable." Here's what I've come to see it as. When you are marketing your services or your products or your free content even, because let's be real, promoting a podcast or promoting a blog article, all of that is marketing. You are educating and you are empowering your audience with pieces of content, with pieces of information, and pieces of education that help them move towards a result. And I think that when you can have that internal shift as an entrepreneur from, "Oh, this is so self-indulgent. Who would want to read about this? This is so self-aggrandizing." And really flip that script to say, "Hey, me showing up and waving this flag loud and proud is helping somebody else who's seeing this achieve a result," and that is such an empowered place both for you and for your audience.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fourth one, also a pain point for me, confidence in selling. I always struggle with this, Cait. I really do.

Cait Scudder:
You know what? I hear you and especially for women, Bobbi, I personally think that we are not necessarily taught to move into a sales conversation or move into a sales context, with the same level of permission and confidence that for whatever reason I feel like men just intrinsically feel. I'm sure that's not the case for everybody, but I definitely know so many women who struggle with this piece.

Cait Scudder:
Here's my take on this. When you sell somebody your product or your service, you are giving them the pathway to a solution. If you don't sell, if you don't speak about what your offer is, if you never let somebody know how they can work with you and what's possible as a result, you are literally robbing from them the possibility for getting that result and you helping them. And I think when you really flip that script and look at, "Hang on, this is not just some selfish manipulative, greasy car salesman tactic. This is me showcasing the possibility that somebody has to achieve this solution with me." You really put yourself in the game, and you give your market confidence to buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the fifth thing is, be consistent.

Cait Scudder:
That is absolutely right. I think that there is no... One of the best pieces of advice, Bobbi, that I've ever been given in entrepreneurship is, don't get too high and don't get too low. When it comes to being your own boss and running things your own way, creating your own schedule, running your own team, there's so many opportunities to get knocked off your horse to feel like you just want to throw in the towel and crawl back into bed and you just don't want to do it. And that is the biggest thing that I think swipes entrepreneurs off their path is, feeling like I had a good day, I want to show up, had a bad day, I don't want to show up. Guys, if you take one thing away from this, let it be this. You are going to have great days. You're going to have hard days. It's your commitment to staying the course. That is the thing that's going to see you through. Just remember, you cannot fail if you just keep going.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want you to share, it's kind of a bonus for our listeners. You have a lot of everyday things that you do. Some things I do too that really help in terms of the day-to-day, like the way that you schedule your week, which is something I do as well.

Cait Scudder:
Yes, absolutely. So, one of the best hacks, oh my gosh, this just saves so much time, so much mental bandwidth for me is scheduling a CEO day. So, on Mondays, I mean, I'm on the phone a lot of the time, whether it's on the phone with clients, group calls, individual calls, collaborators, I'm on the phone a lot. Mondays are my CEO day, which means I don't take any calls. Monday is my day to work completely on my business, and not be in anybody else's business. And that has been so helpful for not only block scheduling and batching out what I need to do in a week, but also for keeping me super on point when I'm coaching on the other days and just very, very focused on what I need to do. I think that as entrepreneurs and as CEOs, one of our biggest forms of currency is our focus and our attention. So, scheduling in a CEO day is going to massively help you feel organized and sane as you move into the week. And I recommend doing it on a Monday because who doesn't love moving into the week feeling organized and sane?

Cait Scudder:
The second thing I would say is, create a little routine for yourself on a daily basis. And I don't mean wake up at 5:00 AM, meditate, do power yoga, sit in lotus for 25 minutes. No, you don't have to do any of that. For me, one of the things that I have is a non-negotiable. I wake up, I have some water with lemon, I exercise for half an hour to 45 minutes, and I move into my day after doing a little bit of gratitude practice. And I might think about things in the shower. I don't spend hours journaling in the morning. But I think that if you can mentally and physically prime your body in the morning, you're really setting yourself up for success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about the mindset that's involved because it's important that we be aware of what other people are doing. First of all, we learn from them and you should just always be aware of competition, let's be real. And also, I believe a lot of competition, it's actually expanding businesses. So, I believe in cooperation over competition in general, but it's also important not to compare too much, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, I think one of the biggest things that knocks us off our horse is this feeling of imposter syndrome of, "She's doing it better than me" or "they already have this established company" or "who am I to come into this space?" And I think whenever that happens, and let's be real, it happens for all of us, the most important way that we can shift out of that is moving your attention from comparison, from analyzing all of your flaws and your worthiness and your capability. Taking your attention off of all of that comparison and "not good enough" noise, and moving it back to a place of service, and moving it back to a place of all of the reasons why you and you alone are the best equipped to serve your people. Why you have moved through everything that you've been through in your life, in your business and your experience in order to be able to offer what you're doing.

Cait Scudder:
And just remember, if you are not showing up for your people, you're taking away from them the opportunity that they have to experience what's possible on the other side. So, the more that you can give yourself permission to let go of the comparing mind, which is our ego's way of keeping us safe, and go back to all of the ways that you're equipped to help somebody, you're going to be of so much more service and you're going to make a heck of a lot more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to finally just touch on something that you have some strong opinions on. And that is MLMs, multilevel marketing. It's important. There's some really good ones out there, but you also have a lot to say about the fact that some of them are scammy. What do people need to know?

Cait Scudder:
I think that there are a lot of amazing people out there building a successful business in network marketing. I think there are great companies out there that offer possibilities for people, but do your homework, guys. I think it's very important to know what you're getting into and to really... And this is the case, whether you're in an MLM or you're building your own business or you're working for somebody else, quite frankly, is you need to be 100% behind the mission, the ethos, the values of whatever it is that you're selling.

Cait Scudder:
So, rather than just looking at a shiny object as a way to make a little bit more money in your bank account month after month, really ask yourself, "Is being affiliated with this community or this company something that I'm going to feel proud of in 10 years? Do I align with the values and the greater impact that this company is making?" Because ultimately, whether you are just one person in a rank or you are an entrepreneur under your own brand, you are representing a brand and that brand is yourself. And so, you really want to make sure that you align at a deep level with whatever it is that you're standing behind.

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Advice, Career, Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, Financial Grownup Guides, Money, Millennial Superstars, Personal Finance, Podcasts, Productivity, Role Models, Women Role Models, Women EntrepreneursBobbi Rebell KaufmanCait Scudder, Business, Career, Career Coach, Ted Talk, Entrepreneur, Success Tips, Productivity, Build A Business, Six Figure Business
How to Dig Your Heels in Like a Financial Grownup with author Joan Kuhl
How to Dig Your Heels in Like a Financial Grownup with author Joan Kuhl
Joan Kuhl Instagram

As a child, Joan Kuhl watched her single mom face severe financial discrimination. She shares the story of how this could have prevented the family from buying a home, and how it inspired her to become an advocate and mentor for women in the workplace. Plus money tips and  a preview of her new book “Dig Your Heels In”.

In Joan's money story you will learn:

  • The important role her single mother played in her life

  • The reason she felt like her mother was great role model

  • Why her mother was charged more money for mortgage as a single parent

  • The reason her mother believed it was important to know how to negotiate

“There are so many men that are coming to the table saying I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that is fair.“

In Joan’s money lesson you will learn:

  • Know what you deserve

"We’re never going to really achieve this inclusive culture in the workplace if we don’t dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve"

In Joan's everyday money tip you will learn:

  • How Joan's $200 cash rule can really help you to put your spending into perspective

"They were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was. I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.“

In My Take you will learn:

  • You can’t just say “I quit” and make it happen. There’s a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job. So tread carefully before you jump. Also read her book.

  • Keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others are saying.

Episode Links:

Joan's book Dig Your Heels In can also be bought here on Amazon



Check out Joan's website -

www.JoanKuhl.com


Follow Joan!

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joan Kuhl:
I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grownup,” and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there today. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You may want to go back and replay that opening quote, it really happened, and yes, it is unbelievable. Welcome all, and to our new listeners, so glad you found us. Take a minute please, make sure you're subscribed, and say hi on the socials to let me know that you're here, RobbiRebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi on Twitter. Let's get to our guest, John Kuhl. K-U-H-L, Kuhl. She is the founder of "Why Millennials Matter" and the author of "Misunderstood Millennial Talent." Her latest book, which we're going to be talking about, is “Dig Your Heels In,” and when you hear in our interview about the incredible experiences her mom had, that's who she was talking about at the opening of the show, you're going to truly appreciate what a great role model Joan had in her mom and what a great role model Joan is. Here is Joan Kuhl.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Joan Kuhl, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Joan Kuhl:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm excited to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited, because I got a sneak peek at your new book "Dig Your Heels In." You are both a speaker, you're a consultant, you founded "Why Millennial's Matter and also "Courage to Stay," and as I've mentioned, now you've got "Dig Your Heels In", which is really about how to navigate, I don't know, we try to keep the E off the show, so I'm just going to say the corporate BS and build the company that you deserve, which is a book long overdue. I wish, we were talking [inaudible 00:02:19] like I wish I had this book when I had my corporate jobs, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
I know. Well, I'm here now, and so this is to empower the women that are working right now and make sure we pave the way for the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Speaking of next generation, you learned so much from your mom.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. So observing a mom that was really trying to build a better life for us, I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk. So ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait, they charged her more money because she had one income as a single mother, therefore she should pay more?

Joan Kuhl:
Yup. They lobbed on extra points onto her interest, her mortgage rate just because they considered her high risk, and like it was little things like that that I observed. It wasn't until I was older and we had those conversations when I was going after my first job offer and she was really in my corner saying "Negotiate, read everything in details," because I think that's when we started to understand some of the discrimination against women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people don't realize, we take this for granted that as a woman you could own a home, but this was really revolutionary, and I guess that's why they were able to pay, make her pay more. I mean, you talk about the pink tax.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, it's funny, this, a lot of this connects into why I wrote "Dig Your Heels In," even just thinking about the decisions that women make and sometimes feel forced to make because they're in a male dominated situation or a situation ripe with bias, so yeah, of course ... My mother was actually a teacher, and then she became a secre- she had multiple jobs, she was a secretary and she was trying to get an advanced degree, and then she was logging miles to get her pilots license, ultimately to get her in the door to become an air traffic controller, because she was kind of studying these fields that she thought she had the skills to transition into that would give her a higher income, and ultimately triple her income from being an inner city school teacher. So it's just things like that that really inspired me "Okay, well women should be able to go after what we want, but we should also not be pushed out of fields that we love or companies that we work so hard to get in the door of because we're not being paid equally."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and so there's the double irony. So she wasn't able to be paid equally to men, and yet she was being forced to pay more at the time than them. When she had this situation with for example the mortgage, at that time did she have any recourse? Was she able to negotiate at all or was it "If you want a mortgage, this is what it is?"

Joan Kuhl:
"This is what it is." It's funny, and now like I've seen over probably since my early teens, my mom will negotiate anything, even at an Anne Taylor in the mall, with her phone bills, and I think it was because of those experiences where she felt so scared, right? She's got like, even though I saw her as brave and courageous, you have a fear when you're a single parent of like, she just finally got the money to get us into a better home, you know, why would she risk not getting the loan approved just because they were discriminating against her in terms of the rate?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's incredible. So what is the lesson for our listeners from this story? Obviously, first of all always negotiate, but what do you think your lesson would be and what would your mom's lesson be?

Joan Kuhl:
Well, I think it is absolutely know what we deserve, and so I think it is not, sometimes when we are in a situation where we do think somebody might have more knowledge than us, so that's a situation where you're going for a home loan or something, and you think "Oh, well this person has the expertise, they have the credibility, and if they're pushing back on something I'm asking for maybe there's a legitimate reason," I wouldn't let it stop there. I think that's why there's so many amazing organizations right now of women talking to each other. One of the biggest things I've learned from my mom is we have to talk about money. One story I'll quickly share with you, I felt competent negotiation my salary and asking for a higher salary than most people when I graduated from college because of the net my friends that were guys that graduated the year before and were getting recruited by all these big consulting firms, they were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was, but I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's amazing. What kind of reaction did you get when you asked for those higher numbers?

Joan Kuhl:
I will never forget sitting in front of this woman, and it was actually a hotel management company, and I told her and she literally laughed at me. She was so condescending, like she could not believe I had the gall [inaudible 00:06:39]-

Bobbi Rebell:
A woman?

Joan Kuhl:
A woman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, and it happens, right? And I said to her, and I just started spouting off, I'm like "This company, this company, Deloitte, Accenture, Price Waterhouse Coopers, all these companies, and this is the kind of benefits they offer, and I've, I'm in the final rounds of interviews with them too, so I also know I'm the number one candidate for this job." And this is where I always laugh when they say millennials are entitled. I think that anyone that's young that kind of has the [foreign language 00:07:02] to say "This is what I know is the market value, and I'm going to ..." And I already knew that I work my butt off wherever I went, and so I always felt that gave me the confidence to say "Hey, this is what I believe I'm worth," and also "Hi, look how much it costs to go to school these days."

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting, the men will discuss money as a way of bragging, but very often women don't discuss it at all.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, exactly. I even just remember when we were at graduation and my mom was so proud, and my godmother came with her too to my, and I was the speaker at my graduation, huge university, University of Pittsburgh for the College of Business, and a couple of my girlfriends that we were all, had been presidents of clubs and had multiple job offers, our parents were like so excited talking to each other, and we were so embarrassed that they were talking about that we had these jobs, or the amount of money, or what the salaries were, whereas we knew that all the guys around us were like high fiving, they were telling their older brothers, ever- it was just, it's this strange thing that we feel like we have to shrink ourselves versus just talk about something that allows us to really feel on a level playing field.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's I think where men can actually be our partners and our assets, because we are their daughters, their wives, their friends, their girlfriends, their sisters, their nieces and so on, and they want to support us, so I think it's great that you really got support and information from your male friends and classmates to get that better offer, and that's why it's really an issue for everyone, and I think it's important that it be addressed that men can be our best advocates and our best assets in this as well.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, I've [inaudible 00:08:47] a lot of men and allies programs, and healthcare companies and sports companies, and there are so many men that are coming to the table saying "I want, I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be a part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that's fair and access, equally accessible to advancement, anything that we want."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. Let's move on to your everyday money tip Joan, because this is something we can all relate to, but we don't always do, and we should. Go for it.

Joan Kuhl:
So I have this 200 dollar cash rule that kind of by happenstance became a trick that I use, and I think it was because A, I used to realize I never had cash on me all the time, and living in New York City it's a must have, but it also allows me to see where unexpected things come up. So now as a mother, I have a five and a one-year-old, you've got birthday parties, or there's sometimes where, I always try to save and take public transportation, buses and subways, pride myself on that, but I look at the 200 dollar rule, I take it out on the first of the month, like I took it out this morning, and guess what, unfortunately today I got my hair done this morning, so I'm halfway done with that, with-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:09:51].

Joan Kuhl:
[crosstalk 00:09:51] dollars cash. Yeah, but that's the thing, I always say "Okay, this is my barometer of like how well I'm planning for my expenses." It's not like budgeting, but things come up like the birthday gifts or, you know, my daughter needs something extra for an after school activity, or I am like "You know what? I want to go out tonight and I didn't plan for it." So that's kind of my rule, is just looking at where the cash goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really important, because it also gives you an indication if that's how fast your actual cash is going, which can feel more painful, think how much is going that's sort of just automated in your life, that's being sucked out of your bank accounts for all of this bills, which we should automate of course, but we don't really feel it the same way. At least with the cash you're feeling it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book "Dig Your Heels In." So important. I feel like this is sort of the next wave. We had "Lean In," and that made sense to a lot of people at that time, but now you've really hit on something that is so important. "Dig Your Heels In," really, it's a metaphor, but it's not, it's literal too to a large degree. I love a quote from the book that you say, "By leaving your company are you running away from something or running towards something? Are you jumping ship because you just 'can't deal any longer,' or is the new opportunity something that really excites you and fulfills your career ambition?" Because sometimes, there's a lot of running away Joan, there really is.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. And I always say digging your heels in is a personal decision, and so I am in no way, shape or form telling everyone to grin and bear it if your situation's toxic, but the majority of the time the women that I have met over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of women around the world for global research projects, you get backed into a corner, and I think sometimes the sexy thing in popular culture right now is to get a bigger title, or a bigger promotion, or more money if you jump and ghost ship, or that the only way to advance is to be a girl boss and start your own thing, but the truth is you have so much equity in where you are right now and so much opportunity to really transform that company, and taking stock, taking a deep breath, really thinking about those ah-ha moments, what is really frustrating you there and how can you turn that into fuel and really disrupt the status quo? We're never going to, I think really achieve this inclusive culture and workplace if we don't dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also point out in the book that we think that we're the only ones feeling a certain way, but you interviewed the very highest achieving female executives who look, their lives look perfect on the outside, and as you got to know them and as they opened up to you these top executives were barely surviving rather than thriving as you perceived them to be.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, that threw me completely for a loop. I was so naive in my mindset thinking they were living this glamorous career, personal and professional lives, and to really hear their battle scars of what they had gone through and they endured taught me a lot about sometime that dynamic between women at work in different generations, but also that we still have so much work to do. I interviewed Reece Witherspoon a couple months ago who also told me that she has bouts with imposter syndrome. I mean, it's Reece Witherspoon. So one of side of this is the self limiting mindset that we can figure out how to overcome, and some of that is pushed on us because of bias in the system and around us, but the other side of it is the system's broken, and I think that's why we need to identify some tactical ways to change it, and that's why I want "Dig Your Heels In to be a real playbook that shows examples of women doing just that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because you have a lot of these broad strokes, you have a lot of really important statistics in this book, but you also interview women and give very specific stories that are relatable to all of us, and we see ourselves in that and there's a lot of value in that, so I really hope everyone will pick up "Dig Your Heels In." So Joan, just to wrap up tell us where people can get the book and hear more about you and be in touch with you, your socials, all that good stuff?

Joan Kuhl:
Awesome. So I have a brand new website, JoanKuhl.com J-O-A-N K-U-H-L. "Dig Your Heels In," we have a fantastic website that's DigYourHeelsIn.com and the book is sold everywhere books are sold, so Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, you name it. If you order it and you go and enter your information on my website you will get a ton of free resources that I developed as things that are master classes on work and life hacks and some great jumpstart your career guides. And on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook I'm @JoanKuhl as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
Thanks, Bobbi. I love talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right my friends, here's my take. Financial grown up tip number one, I want to address something that Joan alluded to, but we didn't really get to explore fully, and that is that we are having a cultural moment where we really glorify the idea of the entrepreneur, of being the boss babe and so on. We hear so many stories about being a boss, and changes in cultural norms and in technology do allow a lot more entrepreneurship, but don't be fooled. There is no paycheck coming every two weeks, at least not for a long time for most entrepreneurs, and of course there's that healthcare thing, and you can't just say "I quit" and just instantly have a business. There are a lot of things that go on in order to have a successful business, and it rarely is an overnight success. There are usually years of hard work behind the scenes that you don't hear about when you read these articles of what seems like overnight successes. So it's important that you acknowledge and understand that as Joan talks about, there are a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job as well. You can be an intrapreneur, which means you sort of build little businesses within a company, but with the company's support, which includes of course that ongoing paycheck and that financial security of a job. So tread carefully before you jump, and also of course read Joan's book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others of both sexes are saying. That can be in person and it can also be maybe in chat rooms online, it can be being part of a mastermind group or even on social media platforms, for example Facebook Groups and so on. It's a cliché for a reason, information is power.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you all enjoyed spending time with us today, now I need your help. Please make sure you are subscribed, and if you have friends or colleagues that you think will enjoy these interviews and these podcast episodes with, for example amazing role models like Joan, please encourage them to subscribe as well, and of course ratings and reviews are gold to us, we appreciate every single one. Big thanks to "Dig Your Heels In" author Joan Kuhl for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Authors, Career, Financial Grownup, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanCorporate, Jobs, Career, Negotiation