Entrepreneur Lyss Stern, CEO of networking and event planning company DivaMoms and author of two best-selling books explains how she dealt with a major company that approached her to work with them, and offered to pay her in Craisins. Lyss also shares her secret to controlling costs, and still saying yes, when she is out with her kids and they want to have some for treats like ice cream. 

 

In Lyss’ money story you will learn:

-How a billion dollar food company tried to hire her for no pay

-Why they said they had no budget to hire Lyss

-What they offered her instead of money

-The strategy Lyss uses to make sure she is properly compensated for her work

In Lyss’ money lesson you will learn:

-Her negotiating strategy and tips on how it can be used by others

-The best ways to communicate the value of your business

-How mompreneurs can leverage their skillset

-How to handle low ball offers

In Lyss’ everyday money tip you will learn

-How to save money on treats like ice cream

-The questions you should ask while ordering to find out about sizes and other items not on the menu

Lyss and Bobbi also talk about:

-Her books: If You Give a Mom a Martini

and Motherhood is a B****

-How her life inspired her books and her business

-The realities of life as a mom and an entrepreneur

In My Take you will learn:

-How to decide whether it is worth it to take on a low-paying client, when you don’t have other clients in place

-How to find value in a client that truly does not have money to pay for your services

Episode Links:

Divamoms.com

Follow Lyss!!

instagram @diva_moms

twitter @divamoms

Facebook lys.  Lyss Stern

Get her books!

If you give a mom a martini

Motherhood is a B****

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Transcription

Lyss Stern:
They wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
You're listening to Financial Grownup With Me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, financial grownup friends, so this episode is going to give us permission to push back a little or actually a lot when we don't get what we need to run a profitable business. Emphasis on profit. Mompreneur, Lyss Stern, is the CEO of the networking and event planning company, DivaMoms. There are a number of them out there, but she was really a pioneer and helped create and define an industry that is thriving. And since she has so much free time, not while raising her three kids, she also writes books.

Bobbi R.:
You may have heard of If You Give a Mom a Martini and her more recent hit Motherhood is a B: 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness, and Inner Diva, which she co-wrote with Cheryl Burke, and it has a forward by odd-mom-out star, Jill Kargman. Special welcome to our new listeners. We keep the shows short, about 15 minutes so that we can fit it into your busy day, but we also do three a week, so we hear a lot of listeners like to binge listen on, for example, longer commutes. Think of it like flex-time for podcast listening. Hit subscribe if you have not already, and be sure to set up automatic downloads, so you have one less thing to remember. Just like you should automate your savings. One less thing. Okay, now let's get to the fantastic, Lyss Stern, who runs a for-profit business, something potential clients seem to have a hard time fully understanding. Here is Lyss Stern.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, Lyss Stern, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi R.:
And I am such a fan of your company Divalysscious Moms, major event planning company. I mean literally, you have millions of mothers and Mompreneurs in your universe that you have coming to your incredible events. So I'm over the moon that you were able to make time to chat with us. So thank you for being here.

Lyss Stern:
Of course. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Bobbi R.:
Before we get to your money story, just tell us a little bit about the company.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So DivaMoms is a lifestyle company for moms everywhere. What we do is we bring the best of the best directly to the moms. We've really become a direct marketing company, so we work with whatever is new, fabulous for moms, for kids, but everything has to be approved by DivaMoms, by Lyss Stern herself, before we promote it to our moms and our community.

Lyss Stern:
And we throw these amazing events and we have DivaMoms book clubs and lots of fabulous parties where moms can come and just be, let their hair down, have fun, mix and mingle with other fabulous moms and really a great social network for moms everywhere. A really amazing community online and offline.

Bobbi R.:
And you're also an author. We're going to talk about your books, in a couple of minutes, but first I want to get to your money story, because you're talking about your business, and it's really important for people to hear a little bit of the behind-the-scenes of what goes on behind these events, and the kind of decisions that you have to make in running a successful business. Tell us your money story.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So my money story is that I get hundreds and hundreds of emails a day, as I'm sure many Mompreneurs do, where companies want to work with me. They want to advertise with DivaMoms. They want to sponsor DivaMoms events. They want social media, They want email blasts, you name it. They want it.

Bobbi R.:
So there was one company that approached you and this was not a startup. What specifically did they approach you about doing with them as a business?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this one company, in particular, that is a billion dollar business.

Bobbi R.:
A food company?

Lyss Stern:
A food company, billion dollars.

Bobbi R.:
A company we've all heard of?

Lyss Stern:
Yes, oh yes. Reached out to me and said, "We love DivaMoms. We want to work with you, we want to advertise with you. We want to sponsor some of your events. We want to do direct marketing with you, want to do social media with you. We want email blast with you," all this other fabulous stuff. Okay, great. So I write back and "Thank you for reaching out. Let's talk, when you have some time, about what your budget may be," and all this other stuff.

Lyss Stern:
And they write back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no. We don't have a budget. We don't have a marketing or advertising budget." No, but I see their advertisements on every billboard, on every bus.

Bobbi R.:
Well they don't have a budget for you.

Lyss Stern:
But they don't have a budget for me. Correct.

Bobbi R.:
And they came to you?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. I did not approach them, and they can come directly to me. I wrote back something very polite and then they wrote back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, but we can't pay you," because I guess they got, they understood where I was coming from, that this DivaMoms is a for-profit business. Yes, we are affiliated. We work with different charities that we're passionate about, but DivaMoms is not a charity, we're a for-profit business like everybody else like they are.

Lyss Stern:
And they wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins. And ladies and everybody out there know your worth, and you know that you are better at getting paid in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
Oh, my goodness. Tell me how you would, in another situation, how can you turn around that kind of approach to something that is paying you in money? Have you had any stories where you've been able to make the pivot and get someone to see the value and then actually pay you in a currency?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. So I've had this many a times and this was the one time, obviously, that was with the craisins, and it was just ridiculous. But a lot of times I will write back to companies that reach out to me, and I'll explain to them who we ... Sometimes I don't think they really understand what I am or what we do. They might think that I'm, I don't know what they might think, maybe it's just a hobby for Lyss Stern. Maybe this is a hobby DivaMoms, this is not a business, and I make it, it's all business.

Lyss Stern:
This is what it is. It's very black and white and I send them, obviously, information. I send them photos, I send them videos, I send them press links and let them know who I really am. And then a lot of the times they do come back, and they say, "Oh, I didn't realize," and, "I didn't know that you did this and this and this. Let me go back and see if we can find some money in the budget." And a lot of the times they do go back, and they do, miraculously somewhere, find money out of their budget to work with us.

Bobbi R.:
So what is the lesson for our listeners to get more situations like scenario number two rather than number one?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. My mom always taught me, and I'm sure we get everybody's heard this a million times, "You get more with sugar, so always be sweet." Always put your best self out there and hopefully they will come back and understand. That you, obviously, that you have a business that you have worth. And it's always nicer to respond with a nice email and/or pick up the phone and set up a time to call and explain yourself. Explain what the business is, who you are, what you actually really do. And if they don't understand, no worries, no problem. But, hopefully, after speaking to you, after really going through your email and going through your information and doing their due diligence. They'll come back and say, "Okay, we found money," or "We'd like to really work with you and this is what we're going to do and this is what we can do."

Lyss Stern:
And I also always, I think it's important too, to give companies options to say, "What is your budget? What are you looking to do? Because we could start at this, and we can go to this." But it depends on again, what every company's looking for. And I just think it's there from the beginning, from day one of the conversation to be open and hat in hand and to have that conversation. And that's just even an example of a few days ago, a company reached out to me, a clothing company. They want me to host an event for them and Dah, Dah, Dah. And she starting to getting into this whole conversation about where the event was going to be. And I said, "Before we even begin this conversation, I just have to tell you we charge and this is what we do and this is-

Lyss Stern:
And she's, "Oh well, oh, I didn't know, I didn't know that you ... and so I had to explain it and then I sent her a proposal and that's also important too. Write it out, a, b, c, bullet point, make it visual and show them what you do, and then hopefully they'll come back with a budget.

Bobbi R.:
And I like the way that you phrase that, because what you're doing is you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. That they may think, on the surface, not fully understand your business, that they're in fact helping you give you exposure, give you new contacts, that kind of thing when in fact, as you said, you do need to be compensated, because this is the business. And I think that's something that people can sometimes get lost in, and they are well intentioned. You can't necessarily come back with negativity.

Lyss Stern:
Absolutely. I think that if you come back with negativity, at least from the beginning, from right on, it's not going to get you anywhere, but sometimes they really might not understand what you are, who your business is and what you really do. So just again, send an email, really show them what you do or set up a phone call with them or even have a meeting, go for coffee, have a lunch meeting and be a person and talk about what you do. So I think that they get a better understanding and then hopefully they can wrap their head around it and see the value and see the worth. And I think that's really important.

Bobbi R.:
Do you try to let them say the number first in terms of budget?

Lyss Stern:
I do. A lot of times I'll say to the company, "What are you looking to do? What is your budget?" And a lot of times they'll come back to me, and they'll say, "Well, what can you do for this amount? What can you do for that amount?" And sometimes they'll say to me, "Well, I don't really know, so can you give me a breakdown of what things cost?" Which I'll do always. I think a lot of times a lot of companies today don't pay, because they don't have to, because a lot of times people or companies or influencers might do stuff for free, which is fine and great. Or they might do stuff for products, I mean whatever that's wonderful. But we, my company, happens to be a for-profit business, so I just need to make that clear from early on.

Bobbi R.:
All right, let's move on to your everyday money tip, because this one made me really happy. Tell us.

Lyss Stern:
Okay. I have three children, and we love to go for ice cream. However, there is a great way to save money for ice cream. For us as adults, they always do offer kiddie cups and kiddie cones. They might not show it out on the counters-

Bobbi R.:
And they don't always tell you, which is tricky with the kids. You have to be proactive, because your kids are going to see the bigger sizes.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. You have to be proactive. You have to ask, they most usually do not put the kiddie cone, or the Kiddie cup out there, especially during the summertime, their busiest time. And same thing for going for a ladies lunch. A lot of times you don't have to order the whole salad. You could ask for half a salad, and it also affects the cost, obviously. They're just little tips about food that you can, obviously, save a few dollars by asking and being proactive.

Bobbi R.:
Always order the small or even just order an appetizer. If you're super hungry, of course, eat what you want to eat, but if you're really just there to spend time with your friends, and the food is kind of an afterthought. Don't feel you have to order an appetizer, a drink, a full entrée, a dessert, a coffee, tea.

Lyss Stern:
No, it's definitely not necessary.

Bobbi R.:
All right. I want to talk about your books, because in addition to this big business that you re running you're also churning out some books. So your first book was If You Give a Mom a Martini, which I loved. I remember reading that. A 100 ways to find 10 blissful minutes for yourself. We all need that. And, by the way, it applies to dads too, okay.

Lyss Stern:
Yes, it does.

Bobbi R.:
And then your latest one is Motherhood is a B, 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness and Inner Diva, which is a great summer read. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this book was created, because I felt, after having three kids, that I was just on the verge of losing it, losing myself actually. I wasn't feeling well. I was just in a place, my father just passed away, and I remember going to a retreat by myself for a few days. I said to my husband, "I just need to go away for a few days." I went to a retreat, and I remember coming back from that retreat and saying, "I need to start taking care of myself. I need to start putting myself first, because if mom's not happy, kids aren't going to be happy." Motherhood is really hard. I don't think that anybody tells you, there are no parenting books out there that really tell you what motherhood is.

Lyss Stern:
Everyone, sometimes they paint pictures of that it's rainbows and roses and Unicorns every day and it's happiness, and it's ... but it's really hard being a parent, and I think that the book is all about really empowering you to step back and get yourself back. It's like almost like a Stella Got Her Groove Back, right.

Bobbi R.:
When feel like someone gets you.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. And that's really what the book is about, and it's a great beach read, and you could have conversations with your friends and don't forget to have a B-Tini on the beach as well, because we have the recipe in there. It's absolutely delicious, with watermelon juice, and it's just again, taking care of you and putting your foot down and learning to say no and really regaining your inner-B, because motherhood is a B.

Bobbi R.:
All right. Tell us more about where people can find you and learn more about you, DivaMoms, your books, all that good stuff.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So everybody can find me. The best place to find me is on Instagram, which is diva D-I-V-A _ moms M-O-M-S. And you can also find me on Twitter, which is divamoms.com, and of course my website, which is divamoms.com and also on Facebook. I'm very active on Facebook.

Bobbi R.:
You're everywhere.

Lyss Stern:
We have a Divalysscious Moms pages, but we also have a Lyss Stern page where I post a lot of stuff too, and also everybody listening, I'm a little sarcastic online, and I'm a little bit funny I'm a little bit witty, and I'm very real and what you see is what you get.

Bobbi R.:
Which is awesome.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, friends. So the most upsetting thing about Liz's story is that while the whole craisins thing with the currency was pretty unbelievable, the idea that potential clients will try to convince you that they have no money is not unusual, especially when it comes to Mompreneurs. Let's face it. So Financial Grownup tip number one, every time you take on a client that pays you a low market or less than you want or need, the time that you used to work for that client is time you are not using to find better paying-work or to do better-paying work. So for example, let's say Lyss decided to work on a client that paid her 20% below what she needed to make a profit, because well, it was better than nothing and maybe she didn't have something else at the time, when that offer came in, those days are locked in.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, so now another potential client comes along, and we'll meet her price, but now she's not available. Don't work with clients who either cannot afford to pay you at the rate that you need to hit your profit targets, and especially don't work with clients that have the resources to pay you appropriately, but choose to try to low ball you.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup tip number two, but here is the caveat to what I just said. If there is a client that, in the short term, cannot afford to pay you in currency, as I joked with Lyss, but you believe they will add value for your brand in a constructive way, it is okay to try to work something out. Don't be stubborn. Not every case is black and white. Live in the gray areas, just not in the red, of course.

Bobbi R.:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. Tell us your Financial Grownup money tips, DM me on the social channels @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, @bobbirebell on twitter, and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownupspodcast. Lyss Stern does not mess around. She is definitely a Financial Grownup, so thanks, Lyss, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. 

 

In Lauren’s story you will learn:

• Why she turned down a speaking engagement invitation she really wanted

• How her entrepreneur philosophy has changed since her book was released

• How turning down that so-called opportunity led to better ones

In Lauren’s lesson you will learn:

• How she balances her desire to volunteer with the importance of being paid for your work

• Her specific strategy to put a price on your time- even when you are volunteering

• Specific ways parents can evaluate how much time to allocate to different commitments

In Lauren’s money tip you will learn:

• The specific way she decides what to outsource, and what to do for herself

• Tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business

• How taking the time to learn new skills like setting up a website and putting together presentations, improved her value as an entrepreneur. 

• What she chose to outsource and the mistakes she made along the way. 

In my take you will learn:

• Why you need to decide if you are a business, or a hobby. 

• How to evaluate the true vale of an opportunity, beyond the direct financial benefit

• Why I am adamant that entrepreneurs must trademark their brands

 

Episode links:

Squarespace

Harvey Karp’s book: The happiest baby on the block

Learn more about Lauren at http://www.thefifthtrimester.com/

Follow Lauren on instagram @thefifthtrimester

Follow Lauren on Twitter @Laurensbrody

Follow Lauren on Facebook @thefifthtrimester

Buy Lauren’s book The Fifth Trimester

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

---

Transcription

Lauren S. B.:
I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard. Especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This episode is about saying no when you are not valued. And by being valued, I mean, being paid. My guest is Lauren Smith Brody. She is the Author of the bestseller, The Fifth Trimester: The Working Mom's Guide to Style, Sanity, and Big Success After Baby, which just came out in paperback.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauren is also the founder of The Fifth Trimester Consulting business, which helps parents and businesses create a more family-friendly workplace culture. Lauren is also the former Executive Editor of Glamour magazine, and you've seen her all over the media, including Good Morning America and CNN. Here is Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren Smith Brody, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll talk more about this later, but your book, The Fifth Trimester, is out in paperback this week, so congratulations on that.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. It's been a fun year.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've been building The Fifth Trimester into a whole consulting business, which brings us to the story that you are going to share because it has to do with basically running your business, and how that's evolved.

Lauren S. B.:
I have learned so many financials this past year since the hardback launch last spring, I can't even tell you. The story that I wanted to share is about the first big thing I turned down. So this whole year has been about building, as an entrepreneur, my own business, and really having to put a price tag on my time, and on what exposure is actually worth to me, and what things I'm kind of willing to do for free for the good of the community, and the good of my business, and what things are really, I must be paid for. So anyway, I had a big bank. Like think of the biggest name bank you can possibly think of-

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a definite name in my head, but okay. Go on.

Lauren S. B.:
I'm not going to say it. The two came to me this week and it was through someone else. It wasn't actually totally direct, but the conversation got a little muddled along the way, and it turned out that they didn't want to pay me to do a presentation. They wanted me to do a presentation. Didn't want me to pay them, and I'm thinking-

Bobbi Rebell:
Literally free? Not a low pay, just free?

Lauren S. B.:
No, literally, free. And so then it was like, well, maybe they would buy a big quantity of books to give to all of their employees, which at least, sort of makes my soul feel a little better about the situation. And all I want to do is take a big screenshot of their logo, turn it gray, put it on my website, and say, "I spoke here. It's huge. It's worth so much to me." Except then, I found out that actually the event was a client event. They were trying to woo new business and I was basically going to be the hired entertainment, and they weren't going to pay me for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, they probably would pay the caterer, right?

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure the food would have been really nice. I wouldn't have eaten because I would have been speaking. Anyway, I don't mean to sound bitter. I'm actually not bitter. It made me feel so good to say no to this because it's the bravest I've been about saying no to something. It could have been valuable for me to have that exposure.

Lauren S. B.:
But actually, I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women. It was going to be women, and talk about things like the pay gap, pay parity, the motherhood penalty, and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this. So it felt good to make that decision and then the big PS is that the very next day, I got two more offers from other big corporations that want me to come and speak. I turned them right over to my speaking agent, she's negotiating it, and I think it's going to go well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they will pay you.

Lauren S. B.:
And they will pay me because I feel confident enough that if I can say no to X thing, then I can probably say yes to a lot of other really good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson? I mean, I feel like there's a lot of pressure, especially on moms, to volunteer.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because so many moms are so qualified, they're organized, they have their act together, and yet, they may not be working to maximize their income in certain years, so there's an expectation. "Well, you have the time. You should volunteer."

Lauren S. B.:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, and that's really what that was. Is you would have been a volunteer for this for-profit event.

Lauren S. B.:
Right, and you know what I love even more than my business, is I love my children, and I love their school, and I love all of the things that I can do for that community, to foster that community for them. And so what I really learned ... I worked in corporate America for many, many, many years in publishing. I worked at Condé Nast. And then so this is my first venture working for myself. This is the first time when I've had the freedom to do a lot of this volunteer work, and I do squeeze it in, in the middle of the day and then I'll end up doing a lot of my work-work in the evenings.

Lauren S. B.:
And so after saying yes to the umpteenth thing that I really did enjoy, I found that I had to kind of in my head, put a price tag on my time, which sounds a little crass. But it's only in my head. I'm not sharing it with anybody else. But it's I need to put a price tag on what is an hour of my volunteer time worth? It is, what sort of satisfaction does it give me? Is it worth X dollars of my day to miss this much work to be able to enjoy this much pleasure? Is it something that I'm doing with my kids? Is it something that will directly benefit them? Or, is it more of a sort of like status thing in the school, which is worth less to me, frankly, because it just doesn't feel genuine.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes we feel obligated.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, we do feel obligated. And it's okay, like when you're part of a community, you do have an obligation sometimes to be a part of it, but it's helped me. If I put a dollar amount on an hour of my time, both for work and for volunteering, and that has made me make a lot of decisions a lot more clearly and easily about whether I say yes or no to things.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you to share a personal money tip, and I know the one that you've brought has to do with being an entrepreneur, and things that you have learned in terms of what you want to do yourself and what you outsource, and how to do that. How to decide.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, there are so many mothers who are very, very, very good at outsourcing absolutely everything that is not something they're naturally good at. That's not me. I'm one of these people who would rather just do it all myself. Well, there's diminishing returns very often on that, and it comes back to what is an hour of my time worth? So when I was putting together my website, thank God there's Squarespace, and there's actually things that make it sort of intuitive and easier, but I have never done that before. I'm not even joking.

Lauren S. B.:
This is embarrassing to admit in a podcast. I had never made my own PowerPoint. I always had a staff of designers and assistants. I would tell them what to write and do and they would animate me this gorgeous PowerPoint. Well, those are two things I actually decided to do myself because I knew that in doing them, I would gain the confidence I needed to do a lot of other things. I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about having worked in print magazines and not so much in digital.

Lauren S. B.:
Now I feel I've built a website, I've built an online community, I have built a social network. I feel very digitally savvy, and I've grown that all myself, and that started with actually spending three days struggling through Squarespace, trying to figure out how to size pictures, and how to line things up, and how to communicate to an audience, really more than anything. So that was really valuable to me.

Lauren S. B.:
On the other hand, what I did spend my money on was trademarking my company name, The Fifth Trimester, which ended up, has been ... I am so grateful there have been probably a dozen moments over the last dozen months when I have been so glad that I own that trademark. It is now something I can license. It is actually worth something to me.

Lauren S. B.:
I actually expanded the trademark to several other categories a few months ago, so that if I want to claim it in many other ways, I can. And that is definitely something I couldn't have done myself. I actually initially signed on for one of those online legal websites, and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, and I ended up hiring a real lawyer to really do it for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, I actually did the same thing with Financial Grownup, and it gives me a lot of security because I knew when I went to do the podcast, I had the audio rights to it, and I wouldn't have a problem. I think that legal money when you're not a lawyer, is definitely money well spent. You want to be protected because you're building this business, so for entrepreneurs, spend money on the right things. So speaking of The Fifth Trimester, so as I mentioned at the beginning, it's paperback week. Congratulations.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, thank you. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
This has been quite a journey. First of all, it's been a bestseller. I love seeing it on the shelf in Barnes & Noble in my neighborhood, which is really nice. It's usually in a beautiful display because people love this book.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really resonated with so many people. I wish it was there when I had my son, 10 years ago, because I would have felt so much better having a guide going back to work.

Lauren S. B.:
It is the book I needed. It's the resource I needed. When I was pregnant, during my first three trimesters, of course, I had Baby Center to tell me when my fetus was the size of a kumquat, and when he was the size of a cucumber, and then he was ready to be born. Then I learned about something called The Fourth Trimester, which was the newborn phase because the idea is that human babies are actually born a whole trimester too early. So to soothe a newborn, you recreate the feeling of the womb-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, we swaddle.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, so we swaddle. Exactly. Swaddle, we shush, we swing, all of those S verbs. It's the Harvey Karp idea. Then when I got back to work, all that support sort of fell off. I have to tell you, I was working in a fairly supportive industry, surrounded by women who were very comfortable talking about things like breastfeeding. I had a supportive spouse. We had enough money in the bank that I could take a few weeks of my leave unpaid. I did have to back after 12 weeks, which to me, was not quite enough. But it's what I needed to maintain my job.

Lauren S. B.:
And yet still, I just felt like there was nothing out there to support me. I ended up, years later, I had the idea that this was transition, that I had gotten through essentially another trimester. This one was for the Working Mom, and I had colleagues who said to me, younger colleagues who weren't in this phase of life yet who said, "Thank you for being so honest and transparent about what's hard here, because ..." And I thought, "Oh, gosh. Have I been unprofessional?" And they were like, they went on to say, "Because you've shown me I can do it one day, too. You've shown me that it's hard, and that I will still get through it, and it will be okay."

Lauren S. B.:
That was really a eureka moment for me, when I realized that my next goal in the next phase of my career was going to be support new parents in this transition back to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's more than a book now.

Lauren S. B.:
It is, yes. It's a movement. For the book, I interviewed hundreds and hundreds of new working moms to figure out what worked for them, and they've become this sort of working, collective working mom mentor for anybody going through it. But what I found is that in speaking, I go into companies and I help them make, not just better policies, but actually better culture so that even if they have good policies, a lot of these, especially the big tech companies, the big law firms.

Lauren S. B.:
People feel like they can't use what's available to them. This actually lets them change the culture, lets them use what's theirs, sort of equalizes things between moms and dads, and people who don't have children, and may never have children. To make things fair for really anyone with a personal life in the workplace.

Lauren S. B.:
So I've been in, I'm going into Google next week. I'm going to AmEx. I've been to Facebook. I've done a ton of big law firms. It has been so fulfilling and the room is full of not just new moms, or expectant moms, but also the managers who really want to support them. And that is, we are in a groundswell movement for women's rights in the workplace and it has been a good moment to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we are lucky to have you leading the charge there. Tell us where people can find you.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, absolutely. So I'm all over Instagram. Too much, it's-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your Instagram.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you. I'm having so much fun with stories in the new font. And again, like that's because I made my own website, that I feel confident that. And then on Facebook, it is The Fifth Trimester. On Twitter, I'm @LaurenSBrody. Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren S. Brody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what Lauren had to say. First of all, Financial Grownup tip number one. Are you a business or an expensive hobby? You cannot be afraid to say no to something if it does not benefit your business if you are running a business. In some cases, you may say, "You know what? I do want that logo on my website. I don't like the deal, but the logo on my website does present enough value to me that this time, I am going to say yes." That's okay, but realize you have set a low and, frankly, unsustainable price point.

Bobbi Rebell:
You will never make a profit if you don't get paid. There will come a time when you have to say no to free. Or, like I said, "You just have an expensive hobby." If a for-profit company is running a marketing event to bring in clients to benefit their business, and they don't have a budget for speakers, it is because they made a choice when they created that budget. It's just not something that they value. So think, "Are these people that you want to be in business with? And, will you feel good about being there?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lauren also talked about trademarking. If you are investing your time in a new venture, make sure you protect it. And frankly, make sure you're not violating some else's trademark. This is serious stuff. If you are not a lawyer, and I should say a lawyer that specializes in this, get a pro. Get the right lawyer for this. Don't mess around. The last thing you want is to devote your limited time and resources to something, only to have someone swoop in, and benefit from the brand value that you have created.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you all for all of your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening and you haven't subscribed yet, it's free. Hit that subscribe button. Of course, please follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and go to my website. Sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show and other projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Lauren's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.