Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— and crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

How to Buy Art Like a Financial Grownup

The art market is intimidating for many of us. But it can be a great way to both invest or just collect pieces you love and want to enjoy having. Gallerist and art advisor Janis Cecil walks us through exactly how to get started, what to look for, and how to get the best price. 

Bobbi Rebell:

A lot of our listeners are very curious about investing in art and what it takes to get started, so I wanted to bring you on to kind of give us the inside scoop in, I hate to say a safe environment because so many galleries seem intimidating even as your friend walking into that beautiful space in Chelsea, it's vast. You see this stunning art on the wall and you don't really know how it all works. How does it work? How do you start buying art, Janis?

Janis Cecil:

The primary market are galleries that represent artists who are making art now, which they are then presenting and selling to the public. There are other types of galleries called secondary market galleries, which just specialize in selling works that had been sold before. These works were sold from an artist at one point and now they're back on the market, either because the owners decided to sell them for whatever reason. The three Ds are often thought of, which is death, divorce, or debt.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh my gosh.

Janis Cecil:

Sometimes people sell for those three reasons. Other times people just want to upgrade their collections or they've moved and they can't take their big painting with them. There are all sorts of reasons why people sell.

Bobbi Rebell:

So the first step is to figure out what you like? Let's say you're ready for a transaction. I know when I've gone in, for example, to your gallery, there is no price tag next to these paintings.

Janis Cecil:

That's true. Very observant, Bobbi. There is actually a rule in New York that galleries are supposed to have available a price list upon request. I would suggest that if there's something that someone likes in a gallery, just say, "Hi," either there'll be someone, a staff member of the gallery, it could be a sales director who will talk to you about prices, there could be a price list available upon request at the front desk at the gallery. Every gallery will be somewhat different about this. They may have someone come out and talk to the person who's asking about prices so that way they can give a fuller understanding of the artist and their career, and kind of help the viewer understand what they're looking at and how things are priced.

Janis Cecil:

A price that's quoted by the person at the gallery is somewhat negotiable, especially if it's primary market. An artist who is selling will have an agreement with the gallery where they split the proceeds from the work that's sold and usually there is between a five and a 15% discount that can be given to a buyer.

Bobbi Rebell:

What is the language that you would use to ask for that? I mean, what do you say?

Janis Cecil:

One of the negotiating tactics would be to say, "Hi, I really like this painting. What's the price?" Then someone tells you the price. You can say, "Well, is that the best you can do?" Or, "What do you think the best price is?" I think the nomenclature here would be best price. And then also there are things that can be negotiated, which could be, if it's a larger work that would cost money to send someplace, right? To ship somewhere, you can kind of negotiate shipping costs. Maybe the gallery can ship for free, or they can actually pay for the crating.

Janis Cecil:

Imagine now, paintings that are really expensive to build a crate that's actually museum, or where they that can travel across large distances costs thousands and thousands of dollars. In this case if you're buying something smaller or something that is less valuable, you could use something called a master pack box, which they can actually order and it'll fit their artwork perfectly and keep it super safe so it can be sent by Federal Express or another courier or hand-trucked.

Bobbi Rebell:

New York is somewhat of an art gallery every day and a fair every day because there's so many galleries, but many people do enjoy going to art fairs. I know I've gone to them and I've actually bought art at them. Tell me how those work differently from walking into a gallery.

Janis Cecil:

Okay. The art fair is kind of like the art buying experience on steroids. I mean, it is just all about the transaction and all about introducing people to new artists or to a new body of work they haven't seen by an artist. If you see something you like, I would advise going in and introducing yourself to whoever looks like they're in charge in that booth. I would just start a conversation and say, "Hi, I like this. Tell me about the artist. Where are they from? What's the material? What's the medium of this work I'm looking at? Is it an oil, is it acrylic, is it a watercolor?" If it's a sculpture, "What's it made out of?" And then they can talk to you about the artist's inspiration or their goals that they're trying to achieve with this work.

Bobbi Rebell:

And again, how negotiable is it? And does that negotiability change depending on how early or how late in the fair you're there?

Janis Cecil:

Yes, things are negotiable always. Again, I would go by the five to 15% rule remembering, of course, that there is no incentive necessarily for a gallery to give a discount to an artist that's super hot when they're pretty much going to sell everything out. They may not give discounts at all or they may decide, "Look, if a collector's coming to us and they buy it from us a lot, we're going to always give them kind of a 10% discount." It's going to depend, really depending on the artist that is of interest and the gallery where you're looking.

Janis Cecil:

And then at the end of the fair, so say the fair starts on a Wednesday, that's the VIP day. Then on Sunday comes and you could be at the end of the week when the fair's about the close, there could be perhaps more flexibility and prices just because the fair's almost over and they tried to sell things before they leave.

Bobbi Rebell:

Because it's expensive to ship things back, right?

Janis Cecil:

It is expensive to ship things back. Or you know what? Shipping things back when they're sold, everyone's happy to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Of course.

Janis Cecil:

Of course, they'd rather ship it to its next home.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes. Okay, are there things to look for if you're buying for what you love, that goes without saying, but if you're buying and you do hope that this will appreciate in value, so you're buying as an investment. What are some things that people should keep in mind?

Janis Cecil:

Things you're looking at are condition of the work. Doing homework, say on a database that records auction sales. That could be Live Art Auction, or Artnet, and looking at what other works of art have sold by that artist in similar years or similar media. And then also having a condition report and doing basic due diligence on what the work is being sold.

Bobbi Rebell:

How much of this is available online? What can people find out if they don't have access to an art expert like you?

Janis Cecil:

Well, there's a couple of different ways of doing this. Both Artsy and Artnet have auction records online. Artsy, also provides kind of more of a bio and understanding of where that artist's work is in the firmament of contemporary art today. So artsy.net and you would basically go on the site and say, "Okay, I'm interested in a painting by," let's say, the American Alex Katz, or, "I'm interested in a sculpture by," let's say, the British sculptor, Lynn Chadwick. Like, "What museums are this work in and what are the prices at auction? How do we find sculpture or paintings by these artists?"

Janis Cecil:

There's a whole way of doing that. There'll be galleries you can search, you can google the artist's name and see who represents the artist or the estate of the artist. And remembering that if you fall in love with something that's very, very expensive, say a Jasper Johns painting. Jasper Johns paintings will cost deca millions. Even if you love Jasper Johns, and you can't afford that, which by the way, most people cannot, you can still buy a beautiful work on paper by the artist or a limited edition print. Our firm in itself is really good in print making. It could be etchings, it could be lithographs, right? Like Warhol, silkscreens, all these things are ways to buy art by artists who are famous, who are eternally recognized and to make it affordable.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I was even looking at Blain Southern's website before we started recording and there's a lot of really accessible stuff as inexpensive, by the way, as when artists had a mug that was 10. It was 10 pounds in this case because it was from your British branch. But there's very affordable works and works that are from the artists, but as you said, they're editions, they're prints. That means there's not only one, but there's only one of the one that you have. That's right.

Janis Cecil:

And that's the edition of 50.

Bobbi Rebell:

Exactly.

Janis Cecil:

At the edition of 50 you will get your own edition number and it will be edition to of a 50, or 10 or 50. And there's something else to know, which is that most editions have what's called an artist's proof. Or in French you'd say [French 00:11:34], and so there'll be a limited edition say of 10 and then there could be two artists proofs. They're actually, it means there are 12 in existence, but the say, at the edition of 10 when you buy something it'll either be one of that 10, or it could be an artist proof if the artist does decide to sell them.

Janis Cecil:

Another way to find really beautiful limited editions is to shop at museum stores and I love museum stores because it's great. You're supporting artists, you're supporting the health of the institution when you buy from museum shops, and if you're a member at a museum then you also get a discount when you do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Even though you're buying this artist at a lower price point, a more accessible price point, it is fully work of that artist and could also appreciate. It is a limited edition. It is potentially an investment, it could be-

Janis Cecil:

Oh, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:

Nothing's ever guaranteed, but it is a way to buy these artists at much more affordable prices.

Janis Cecil:

Exactly. I mean Jasper Johns, Prince by Jasper Johns, when he made them were incredibly affordable. They are now worth over a million dollars. And the important thing when looking at art is to think about what is it that I can buy with the budget that I have. I'd rather buy one or two things a year that are really good quality that are representative of the artist. In other words, that means they're kind of emblematic of what the artist does, right?

Janis Cecil:

If you're wanting to buy a work by an artist who's famous for painting portraits, maybe if you're going to buy just one thing by that artist, buy something that's actually figurative, right? That represents a portrait or a person. And that's kind of what that artist is known for. Whereas what if you want to buy something like by the British artist, David Hockney, and he's known for doing interiors but also these incredibly lush landscapes. In that case, a landscape by David Hockney makes perfect sense.

Bobbi Rebell:

What should people do when they walk into the galleries and it's just dead quiet and they've just got, there's just somebody at the desk kind of staring at them. You can feel so awkward, Janis.

Janis Cecil:

Well, I mean, most front desk people that I've had anyone at the front desk, I've always encouraged them to be friendly and smile and be welcoming. I think it's just to say, "Hi," and then when you leave say, "Thank you." And if you're like, "Oh wow, I love that. Can you tell me more?" And if the front desk person is super busy or can't talk to you, then they'll usually get someone who can.

Bobbi Rebell:

Amazing. Such great advice.

Episode Links:

• artsy.net is free

• artnet.com is paid but there is a lot of free information

• The Art Dealers Association of America - www.artdealers.org

Follow Janis!

• Instagram - @janisgcecil

• Twitter - @JanisGCecil

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Journalist Jeanne Pinder, founder of ClearHeathCosts reveals how medical costs can vary widely for the same products and procedures- and how we can find out- and negotiate- to get the best price.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jeanne’s website - clearhealthcosts.com

• GOODRX.com

• Negotiating Bills

• wnyc.org/healthcosts

Follow Jeanne + Clear Health Costs!

• Facebook - @ClearHealthCosts

• Twitter - @chcosts

• LinkedIn - @jeannepinder

• Pinterest - @chcosts

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Guide, how to pay less for healthcare. Like a Financial Grownup with Clear Health Costs, Jeanne Pinder. You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
No secret. Our healthcare costs are ridiculous. What makes matters even worse is that it is one of the few things that we buy where we don't even know what it costs. In fact, we don't even ask ahead of time. Very often we don't negotiate. We don't know what the competition is charging and there is often zero transparency. The costs are all over the place. For example, a simple blood test could be $500 in one place, $7 nearby. An MRI routine procedure can cost $300 to $6,000 in another location just a few blocks away. Very few of us even think to compare costs and shop around the way we do almost obsessively sometimes for everyday items.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is an urgent episode. I worked to bring it to you for a very long time. I am really excited about it. As you can tell as a journalist, I can tell you I really appreciate the work that goes in to getting the data that I just shared. Before my New York Times reporter, Jeanne Pinder is nailing it with the company that she founded, Clear Health Costs. Their work in bringing transparency to the healthcare marketplace by telling people simply what stuff costs is amazing. She has been called a benevolent genius for good reason.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listened to the end of the episode. It's not that long. Take notes or listen again, or go to the show notes at bobbirebell.com for a transcript. And by the way all the episodes are there. Use the search bar in the top right corner to get more info about our guests, or more info about the content of any of the episodes. But first, listen to this one. Here is Clear Health Costs founder and CEO, Jeanne Pinder. Jeanne Pinder, I'm so excited you're here with us. I've been trying to get you on the show for quite a while, but you're a busy lady. You are the founder and CEO of Clear Health Costs, and you are here to basically give us the lowdown on how we can be better financial grownups when it comes to what we pay for our healthcare. Tell us first about Clear Health Costs, and how it came about and what it does.

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. We're a New York City journalism company, no longer startup, bringing transparency to healthcare by telling people what stuff costs. We do this not only on our home site, but also in partnership with other news organizations in long running consumer friendly investigations. We're partnering now with CBS national news and WNYC public radio, and Gothamist here in New York, telling people what stuff costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do we even know where to begin with controlling our healthcare costs, because obviously, we often don't have that much choice when it comes to insurance, and we all feel like we're overpaying for insurance, and then we still do pay for this stuff.

Jeanne Pinder:
Right. Yeah, so we recommend that people just, whenever it's feasible, ask what stuff is going to cost you. We know that not everything is shoppable. Like we wouldn't expect you to shop your emergency up, inducted me or your cancer treatment, but if you think about it, somewhere around 80% of our healthcare system interactions are shoppable, where are you going to get that sore throat looked at, where are you going to get that MRI. Do you have choice in scheduling your surgery? So once you've ascertain that it is shoppable in some sense, you can start out by asking simple questions. Ask the insurance company if applicable and the hospital or doctor, how much will this cost me on my insurance?

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Meaning what's the net cost to you?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yes, and what's the cash price? Quite often they'll say, "Well, we don't know or we can't tell you," but our view is that if we make that behavior a normal behavior if everybody's asking. And increasingly, we hear that people are able, doctors, hospitals, labs, clinics are able to come up with a number.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then how do you even know where to go to start comparing? Because sometimes to go to get a second opinion, I would think you maybe have to go get a second appointment with another doctor, which is not only money but also time. Should you be going to second appointments just for the cost of it? How does that actually work in practice?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah, we usually suggest something simple like an MRI. You can call three separate providers, and ask them those questions. How much will that cost me on my insurance? What's your cash price? Very important, ask for the cash price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you explain that?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah. So we're hearing increasingly that people are finding if they put away their insurance card and pay cash. They can get a better rate. It doesn't necessarily fall against your deductible. Although, you should be able to take something like that from your HSA if you have one. But increasingly, we're hearing that people who are choosing to put away their insurance carrier didn't pay cash, do better. Not in every case.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thinking behind that? Because my gut instinct, which is clearly wrong, is that it's better to have insurance, right?

Jeanne Pinder:
Well, you have to ask every time. All bets are off. There are no rules. Everything we thought we knew about healthcare, we don't really know that anymore. So for example, we all grew up thinking that our insurance premiums gave us access to the lowest price. That is no longer true necessarily in every case.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you even know?

Jeanne Pinder:
In most cases, making three phone calls to ask the price, it might take you half an hour. It might take you an hour in advance of a procedure that you'd be surprised what you find out. Yes, in fact, we've heard that a simple blood test could be $500 one place in $7 another place. And if you haven't met your deductible, it really makes a difference. A simple MRI could be $300 one place and 6,000 in another, a few blocks away in the same city.

Bobbi Rebell:
So explain why there's such a cost differential? Does one person pay higher rent? Is one place subsidized by the government, one isn't? Why such a big differential?

Jeanne Pinder:
Well, the biggest reason why is that there is no transparency in healthcare. So people aren't used to publishing prices, and people aren't used to asking for prices. A few rules of thumb. We generally think that any procedure in a hospital is going to be much more expensive. So let's say that lab test, if you get it at LabCorp on cash can be dramatically cheaper than if you get it in a hospital lab.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, can you negotiate? Let's say for some reason you want to have it at the hospital, can you tell the hospital, "Well, if I go to a lab it's going to be less." Can you match that price? Is that something that people do yet?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yes. People are doing that increasingly. I did it myself actually. I needed an MRI for a member of my family. The orthopedist in question gave us a list of three radiology providers that he uses. And because I know how to do this, so I called the first one and said, "I'm a cash customer. I'm not using my insurance. What's your price for the MRI, the particular code number?" And she said, "$900." I called the second one and had the same conversation. She said, "$600." And then the first one called me back and said, "If you can be here at seven o'clock tonight, it'll be 450." Right. So it's like surge pricing on Uber. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeannie's reacting to seeing my face. I have a look of surprise for our listeners that obviously can't see me. I was like, "You got to be kidding." Oh my gosh. It's like, are they going to have Black Friday sales one day? I don't know.

Jeanne Pinder:
It is. You never.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you can definitely negotiate. And is it the thing where you can say, "I'm willing to come in last minute and fill an empty slot." Because they're trying to manage their business. That's crazy.

Jeanne Pinder:
And you can say anything that you feel comfortable with. Not everybody is. Well, like for example, my friend Cindy, she was going to a doctor, and she had to get slightly gross. She had to get wax removed from her ear. So she went in and the first thing they said at the billing office was, "Give us your credit card." And she said, "How much is it going to cost?" And they said, "We don't know." And she said, "Well then, why should I give you my credit card?" And she left.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Jeanne Pinder:
Well, not everybody wants to do that. And again, we don't expect you to behave like that when you're on the gurney waiting to have your appendix removed. But increasingly, people are asking because people are getting these terrifying bills, making decisions not to go to the doctor because they get a terrifying bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is some of the language that people could use when you want to negotiate beyond saying, "Well, your competitor offers this price." Can you make a hardship argument, especially if you have insurance but then the insurance isn't going to cover it that well? What are the kinds of techniques that are most successful in negotiating a healthcare bill both before and after you get the bill?

Jeanne Pinder:
Right. Generally, we say just those simple questions, how much is this going to cost me on my insurance? What's the cash price? Yes, I'm shopping around. We don't hear a lot of people who are having a lot of success they're saying, "Well, your competitor up the streets charging 6,000 and we'd rather have it for 4,000." But we do hear a lot of people who are asking that question very specifically, and asking it of several providers because quite often the providers do know what their competitors are charging and they do want your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll talk a little bit about that because I think people don't always understand that there's the other side to this, that they also in some cases are not necessarily getting rich off of us. They have their own business issues going on.

Jeanne Pinder:
Right. And one of the issues that they do have going on is that there are people who are not paying their co-insurance and their deductibles. There's a huge conversation in healthcare finance these days about people who are just not paying. So as a reaction to that, we think these cash prices are coming to the fore. Not every time, not every place, but quite often.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about prescriptions. What can people do to lower their prescription costs? Because we were joking before we started taping that I have a prescription that would be very, very expensive, but my doctor gave me this kind of coupon that goes directly to the manufacturer, and that made it only $25, and it's a monthly thing, which is great, but what if you didn't get that coupon? How would you even know what you don't know what to ask for?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah. So we say ask that same question at the pharmacy. How much is this going to cost me on my insurance and what's your cash price? You can also go online to goodrx.com and get an idea of what the prices are going to be there. They have coupons that the issue. In general, we hear a lot of people who are saying that they are finding that their copay, like they might have a $35 copay for a common medication, but they can buy it on cash for $4. It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
That makes no sense though.

Jeanne Pinder:
It makes no sense. Right. Again, you think that your insurance policy gives you access to a lower price. That's no longer true.

Bobbi Rebell:
What tips do you have for getting the right amount of money back from your insurance provider? Because I find, how do you know if your doctor even coded it correctly? Are there certain ways you can research that yourself, and make sure when they submitted it's submitted in the best possible way for you? Because I find, a lot of times they're not necessarily paying attention.

Jeanne Pinder:
I think you're right about that. We generally suggest, and again, I'm not saying that this is right because they feel like when people are not healthy, they're not at their best. They would rather not be arguing over nickels and dimes, but we do recommend that people ask on the front end, how much is this going to cost me, and then scrutinize the bill on the backend, like is this what they said they were going to do, and does everything look kosher here? We have a little handbook on how to argue bills on our website.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. We'll leave a link in the show notes. Make sure to send that to us.

Jeanne Pinder:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
But in short, go ahead. How do you argue the bills?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah, so I have argued many a bill over the years.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not surprised. And probably very successfully.

Jeanne Pinder:
Well, sometimes yes and sometimes no, but you should document everything. Do it in writing. Don't do it on the phone because doing it on the phone, you're not going to have any record of stuff. I have sent stacks and stacks of copies to CEOs of hospitals and of insurance companies complaining about my treatment. I can get a little bit enthusiastic about arguing bills, but it's worked out for me in many cases. And I think if everybody was reading their bills and challenging them, I think we would be able to reduce the amount of shenanigans that goes on in hospital and doctor billing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think there's a lot of... we just calling it shenanigans? I would call it fraud over-billing.

Jeanne Pinder:
Well, In some places I think it is fraud. In some places that shenanigans. In some places it's just so complicated. The doctor submits one code and the insurance company says, "Well, we don't code it that way. We code it another way." The sum total is that the patient gets stuck in the middle.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the things we can control it? So for example, I noticed that one doctor, they have multiple labs. They can send a test out to, not all the labs, maybe on your insurance. Can you tell the doctor, "Please send it to this lab, not the other lab."

Jeanne Pinder:
Yes. And try to in every case. Again, it's really hard to place that burden on you as the patient. They should be doing it automatically, but you can remind them. And also when you're doing this prep work, I always recommend that people take notes, take names and take numbers. You can ask for something in writing, for example, a hospital estimate in writing, which will then make it easier for you to argue on the back end should you want to. For many of us, we're a little bit squeamish about talking about body parts and money because it feels like, "Ooh, well, maybe my doctor's going to think that I'm like a cheapskate or something." But I really think it's time for this to come out into the open, and for all of us to get comfortable with the fact that asking that question is going to make us, and our doctors frankly feel a lot better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are a tremendous resource. One more question. We're talking in general about medical procedures that are not necessarily elective. Do you have any negotiability when it comes to things that are elective?

Jeanne Pinder:
The elective procedures that we price on in our database are pretty much already negotiable. They're basically a cash marketplace. So we do pricing on Botox, LASIK and teeth whitening, and they really are pretty much an open marketplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fascinating. So they're probably more negotiable because they're really running purely as a business where you can truly take your business somewhere else?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah, they'll have specials, special on the LASIK, special on teeth whitening.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good to note. Jeanne, where can people find out more about you and Clear Health Costs?

Jeanne Pinder:
Yeah, clearhealthcosts.com. You can also find us on cbsnews.com/healthcosts, wnyc.org/healthcosts, and gothamist.com/healthcosts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tremendous resources. We are so grateful to you. Thank you so much and happy holidays.

Jeanne Pinder:
Thank you Bobbi. Thank you. Happy holidays to you too.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was awesome. Big things to Jeanne Pinder. Be sure to check out Clear Health Costs as Jeanne said in all the places, including their partnership with WNYC public radio and Gothamist. That's wnyc.org/health costs. You can also check out their partnership with CBS national news at cbsnews.com/health costs. This is one of those episodes you definitely want to go to the show notes. You could do that at bobbirebell.com/podcast/jeannepinder.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also just search for her name, J-E-A-N-N-E P-I-N-D-E-R in the search box. That also goes for all the episodes of Financial Grownup. You can get show notes and resources for all of them. And if you like this podcast, please be sure to subscribe and leave a review. And if you have other ways to save on healthcare DM, so that I can share it with the whole community. On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell. And of course, check out Money With Friends. My other podcast with my friend Joe Saul-Sehy. You may know him from Stacking Benjamins. Be sure to follow Money With Friends also. On all the socials, it's at moneyfriendspod. Thank you everyone. Infinite things to Clear Health Costs, Jeanne Pinder for helping us all get our healthcare costs under control. Like the financial grownups, we are. By everyone. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

When all her friends seemed to be buying houses, sculptor and novelist Georgia Lee Hussey took the plunge. She quickly realized how much she didn’t know about home ownership, credit scores, and adjustable mortgages- and how much it was going to cost her. But the way out of the debacle was also the way in to the career she never knew she always wanted. 

Georgia’s Money Story:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, thank you so much. It's fun to be able to talk about money stories, my favorite topic.

Bobbi Rebell:
let's get into that now. It has to do with your first real estate purchase, you were just 27 years old. Tell us your money story.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So, when I moved back to Portland from New York, I thought, well, I want to move back and I want to buy a house because everybody I know is buying houses. And they were telling me how it easy it was and how great it was and how much the values of the houses were going up. And it seemed too good to be true, and as we know, things that are too good to be true often are.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so I qualified for a mortgage ... You'll love this. I had a five 50 credit score, I had no money down and I had two loans. So I had one loan that I had a seven and a half percent fixed rate and then a second loan at an 11 and a half percent adjustable rate. And I literally did not know what any of that meant. So the process of buying this home as a single person and trying to figure out how to make the cash flow for that work when I was working basically a high-end sales job with irregular income, was quite an awakening to what it meant to be a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you were getting this loan, did the loan salesperson, for lack of a better word, did they explain any of this to you?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
You know, they may have, but it was such a blur because everything was new. I didn't know what any of the terms really meant. I'd never been around somebody who bought a house before. And I'm a pretty smart person and savvy, but not in the world of finance. So they may have explained it to me, but I was surprised two years later when I was trying to figure out what to do with the house and that I was going to have an adjustable rate. I literally didn't understand that about-

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was it before it adjusted?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
I think I had ... It was a three year ARM.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's short. Wow.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Ugh, God. As a CFP it just makes me cringe inside to think about that. Although I was very lucky, thanks to a lot of privilege to be able to get out of that house.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did it play out? So you're in this house, it becomes pretty clear that with your irregular income from a sales job, this is not sustainable. What happens?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So I did all the scrappy, punk rock, arty things that I had always done. I got renters, I rented my garage, I rented the extra bedrooms, I did work trade with people to paint it. And I was working in modern interior design, that's how I leveraged my sculpture background. And so I can make it look really good. So I was really leveraging the resources in my community, in my friend group to be able to do that.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
But as I was realizing the extent of the problem of not understanding how to budget really, because nobody I'd ever been around had budgeted. I started learning everything I could from basically personal finance blogs, which were the equivalent of personal finance podcasts in the early [inaudible 00:06:11]. And I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked. And so I just started teaching myself everything I could. And talking to my friends about it, because I was really surprised by how little I understood. And then I started talking with my friends and they were really ashamed that they didn't know either.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And that's really what struck me, was that these incredibly intelligent, successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money. And I think that's pretty intersectional. A lot of my friends were female, a lot of my friends were queer, a lot of my friends were creatives or artists of one kind or another. And all of us in our individual groups, has been disenfranchised from the world of wealth and wealth accumulation for a variety of reasons and a variety of money stories.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so that really is what lit the fire under me to become a CFP, because I realized there were so many people who were being excluded from the financial world of stability and safety. And so I realized there had to be some job that did this. I was looking for a career change anyway, and I really loved the analytical element of money and the creativity of problem solving, which ... It's basically, my joke is that financial planning is exactly the same as installation sculpture, but it's just instead of using money, you're using clementines or glass or whatever your medium of choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, what happened with the house?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So, I had the house for three years, that was when I was starting to learn about the personal residency exclusion.

Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Yeah, so if you own a house and it's your personal residence and you sell it and you've lived in it, you are able to not have to take the gains on the sale. So there's a $250,000 exclusion. That was not going to be a problem that I had, I think I had a $10,000 gain on the house. It wasn't going to be a big deal. But if you don't live in the house at the sale, you have a certain period of time that the IRS can look back and tax you on the gain.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So I was renting the house, because I had moved in with my partner at that point and I realized that I sort of had a ... I had a moment where I had to either sell it or commit to renting it for the longterm. And I think that was really my first opportunity to analyze an investment and make a decision on whether this was a good choice to sell or hold. I ultimately decided that I wanted to sell because I did not like owning real estate, too much time and energy required to maintain it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you sold it at a slight profit?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
A tiny profit. But really if you look at how much money and energy I put into that house, it was basically a forced savings account with a very high rent.

“I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked and so I just started teaching myself everything I could.”

Georgia’s Money Lesson:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, I think there's a couple. One is that self-efficacy is a skill that we built. I didn't know anything about money, but I was able to access information about money and how to build my own self-efficacy around this new skill set. So that's one thing. I would also say that identifying your money story is essential. Because when I was at the beginning of my journey, I was learning a lot of new skills around budgeting and money management. But until I paired that with the work I was doing in therapy around behavior change and personal awareness, I couldn't utilize those tools and structures very well. I wasn't utilizing them. I knew them, but I couldn't implement it. It's like a doctor saying, "You need to lose weight." And that's the only tool that we're given.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And money is so emotional now, there's plenty of research now showing that all of our decisions are emotional and we just make them seem rational and logical. So once I understood that I had been told I couldn't be good with money as a creative and as a woman, I had been told that budgeting was dumb or not cool, that there were all these layers of money stories. Once I identified those and could pick them apart a bit, it was much easier for me to step into these structures with a sense of personal awareness and clarity about how they were going to serve me, and how they were going to help me change that story going forward.

“What struck me was that these incredibly intelligent successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money.”

Georgia’s Money Tip:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
There's a series of questions we ask our clients, and I would highly recommend asking your friends and family because we're heading into the holiday season. It's a great opportunity to have some more substantial conversations about what's important to us and what we value in the various relationship circles we live in.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So one thing that I think is an interesting question is, what did your mother teach you about money? What did your father teach you about money? Often there are not explicit lessons, like sitting down and having the talk. But there are usually things we gather from watching the world around us, and they're usually different for each parent or guardian that we have in our life. And then I think it's really interesting to ask our parents, "What did your mom and your dad teach you?" And what do you think their moms and dads taught them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that part of it, because we often just relate to our own generation and one up, but if we have the opportunity, if we are with our parents and the older generations, ask them what they learned from their ancestors. Because we rarely get that and I know we don't have time to get into it now, but people can follow up and read in all the places you're interviewed, and I'll leave some links in our show notes, but you have a very interesting multigenerational story about money that really formed who you are today.

“Identifying your money story is essential.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't sign anything you don't understand, even if all the cool kids are doing it. Georgia's friends were buying homes and I'll bet most of them were just as clueless about what they were signing. No excuses, ask questions, read the documents. For those of you guys who have not been at a real estate closing, you write checks and everyone else leaves with checks that they cash. You are paying these people, make them explain everything. Don't let them rush you. You're the one who is paying, you are the one who is on the hook. I have not done this all the time, I have signed documents I have not known. You know what? I now know better, so I'm passing that knowledge onto you. Take the time, no matter how long it takes.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Speaking of friends, Georgia's decision to buy a home was influenced by her friends, who truly meant well. But beware of well-intentioned, pure influence, kind of a cousin to peer pressure. Your friends most likely don't know your actual full financial picture, including your goals, and you don't have to share it with them. When they encourage you to, for example, treat yourself to whatever, especially this holiday season, they mean well but they aren't paying. Thank them for their advice and support and just say you'll think about it to deflect any persistence.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Georgia’s website - modernistfinancial.com

Follow Georgia + Modernist Financial!

• Instagram - @modernistfinancial

• Facebook

• LinkedIn - @georgialeehussey

• LinkedIn - @modernist-financial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Black Friday can be a great time to kick off your holiday shopping and maximize your budget. Family Finance expert Andrea Woroch joins us with her best tips and favorite apps to get it down like a grownup. 

11 tips and tricks for Black Friday shopping

1. Derivative goods.

2. Misleading discount claims.

3. Sale price isn’t always the best price.

4. Save more with discount gift cards.

5. Some retailers promising best deals on Black Friday.

6. Beware of bundle deals and rebates.

7. Think about your impulse purchasing triggers.

8. Avoid extended warranty.

9. Watch out for fees.

10. What to buy, what to skip.

11. How to shop safely.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Andrea’s website - andreaworoch.com

• Parabis - The website where you can find out if stores owe you a refund - https://paribus.co

Follow Andrea!

• Instagram - @andreaworoch

• Facebook - @AndreaWoroch

• Twitter - @andreaworoch

• LinkedIn - @andreaworoch

• Pinterest - @andreaworoch

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur and author Teneshia Warner shares a childhood story of being paid less because she was female, and being told that it would always be that way- by her own grandmother. Teneshia also shares her advice on how to handle the dream bullies and previews her new book.

Teneshia’s Money Story:

Teneshia Warner:
All right, so The Big Stretch, I am thrilled about my second book. As you just mentioned, I'm the founder of The Dream Project, and I was able to take a lot of the key learnings from speaking to over 180,000 dreamers, iconic dreamers, as well as my own story, and put it in a book format of a 12 week dreamers bootcamp.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I can tell you the book literally lays it out in very easy to follow steps and there's a lot of accountability in the book. We're going to get to that soon, but I don't want to hesitate to get to your money story, because this is kind of an epic story. There's a big twist, it has to do with your great grandmother and a lesson she taught you. But the lesson she taught you was not the one that she intended to teach you. Go for it.

Teneshia Warner:
All right, so my money story, it actually dates back until I was a young kid. I was in the third grade, so think I'm eight or nine. I had an idea that I wanted to work the summer over at my great grandmother's farm. She owned a farm with hundreds of acres of land. And my uncle, who was also very younger, he's only five years older than me, I went to him, and his name was Gerald. I said, "Gerald, I have an idea. I think I can convince our grandma, [Osi 00:03:43], to allow us to work the farm and pay us versus pay other people."

Teneshia Warner:
So he was down for it. And I went over to my grandmother and I pitched her on this concept. You should keep the money in the family, let Gerald and I work for you this summer. And so I landed us a job, Bobbi. And we were working the farm. We would get to work around 4:30 AM. I would go with my grandmother and Gerald would go with my great grandfather. And for my great grandmother, we would go and get eggs out of the chicken coop, we would clean the porches, we would pick fresh vegetables, we had to cook dinner. I mean it was a long, long day. And then as for Gerald, he was doing things in the field like picking corn, all types of hard labor things.

Bobbi Rebell::
But you're both working.

Teneshia Warner:
We both are not only working, we are working hard. At the end of the day we're exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell::
So then comes payday.

Teneshia Warner:
Yes. So we do this for about two weeks and payday comes. Prior to this, I didn't negotiate how much she was going to pay us, I was just happy to have a summer job. And so she gave us these envelopes, and I didn't want to be rude and open it in front of her.

Teneshia Warner:
So we got in the car and we went back home. And we open our envelopes. So Gerald tore his envelope open and out comes this money that's folding. And then I tear my envelope open, and coins drop out.

Teneshia Warner:
And so I'm looking, and I'm like, wait a minute, something's wrong here. Where's my money? There was no money, there was not folding money in there. And so I went to my mom and I said, "I need you to take me back over to my great grandmother, Osi's house."

Teneshia Warner:
So she took me back and I said, "Hey you, you must have made a mistake because I don't have any folding dollars and I only have coins, so you didn't pay me the right amount." And we kind of went back and forth. She told me she was very clear on the amount that she paid me. And I kept pushing, pushing.

Teneshia Warner:
And then finally she said, "You know what, Neshia." She called me Neshia. "I'm not going to pay you the same amount that I paid Gerald, because the world is not going to do that." She said, "No matter what, girls do not make what boys make, and I'm not going to start doing that." Yes. So it really pierced my heart.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this was a statement, not a discussion.

Teneshia Warner:
This was a statement, yes. It was like, the end. And so I was really, really courageous with what I did next, Bobbi. I put my hands on my hip, I looked at her in the eyes and I said, "If you're not going to pay me what you pay Gerald, I need you to know I quit." And I took off running because she definitely believed in the rod and she would have spanked me, but it was worth it for me to stand up for myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did Gerald say?

Teneshia Warner:
So my dearest Gerald. Gerald felt sorry for me. However, Gerald continued to work and collected that check for the rest of the summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. And that folded money. And what did your mom say? And did you have any further discussions as you got older about this with any of the people involved?

Teneshia Warner:
So my mom, she's just awesome. I told her how I felt, and she told me that I did not have to go back and work there, that if I really wanted to quit, that I could. Hindsight looking back, I realized she really wanted to teach me a lesson, and she knew that that was going to give me an experience to stand up for myself and to actually demand my value, which leads me to, that's why it's my money story because one of my biggest lessons I took away from that, and that's, it's okay to demand your value and stand by that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the amazing thing is, that was not the lesson that your great grandmother was teaching you.

Teneshia Warner:
Absolutely not.

Bobbi Rebell:
She is from a different era, and we love our grandmas, but that was not the lesson that we want to teach people today. What is your lesson for our listeners from that story?

“It’s ok to demand your value and stand by that.”

Teneshia’s Money Lesson:

Teneshia Warner:
So my lesson for your listeners is, if you are a small business owner, and or, if you're working in corporate America, there comes a time that you have to be extremely comfortable with what you bring to the table and the value that's associated with that, and willing to negotiate based on that value, and not compromising that.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing in the book that I've asked you to talk about as your money tip, your everyday money tip is, how to do a dream detox specifically. If there are people in your life that are what you call a dream bullies, what do you do specifically to get rid of those people? Do you just ghost them? What do you do?

“When you have a dream and you have a big idea, it is important that you safeguard your dream.”

Teneshia’s Money Tip:

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing in the book that I've asked you to talk about as your money tip, your everyday money tip is, how to do a dream detox specifically. If there are people in your life that are what you call a dream bullies, what do you do specifically to get rid of those people? Do you just ghost them? What do you do?

Teneshia Warner:
Well, I definitely wouldn't say ghost them. Well, first, I think it's very important to know that when you have a dream, and you have a big idea, especially when you really originally get that idea, it's important that you safeguard your dream. So you have to become aware of who is in your circle.

Teneshia Warner:
Do you have a circle of dream champions? Champions reflect back to you the best of who you're becoming, they're going to reflect back to you the possibility that this dream can become a reality. And or, you have dream bullies. And dream bullies are those that are within our circle that potentially just cannot see the vision that you've been given for that dream. Sometimes your dream bully can be the people that are the closest to you, that actually love you the most, and they will actually try to protect you as you stretch to become more uncomfortable and to step outside of that comfort zone, you will find that you start to disrupt the comfort zone of sometimes the people that are really close to you.

Teneshia Warner:
Those individuals can sometimes want to protect you. Instead, they're becoming a dream bully. They're working against your vision. So for me, my best friend in the whole world is my grandmother. Not my great grandmother, but my grandmother. Her name is [Noretha Hearns and 00:09:24], and she is the biggest dream bully I've ever encountered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Teneshia Warner:
And so I've had to learn, when I have a big idea, and I have a concept, I don't share those visions with my grandmother because she's not going to support me in having them turn out. So for the listeners, how do you do a dream detox and how do you protect yourself from the bullies? Well, number one, first you need to identify who they are. Second, you need to alter your conversations accordingly. That's not the place to go and share your next big idea, that's not the place you call where you want to know, do I continue to go or do I stop?

Teneshia Warner:
And so it's not about cutting out dream bullies completely out of your life. I don't want you sort of ghosting everybody and then saying Teneshia and Bobbi told you to tell everybody peace out. No, that's not what we're saying. However, I will say it's about becoming conscious, and aware, and protecting your ideas and your dreams accordingly. And it may mean altering your relationships with the person, especially as you're in a season of birthing a new dream. You may not find yourself hanging out with the old best friend where you know you guys used to gossip, or you weren't doing anything productive. Maybe that's not the person that you will be spending the majority of your time with in this new season of bringing your dream to reality.

Teneshia Warner:
One of the things that you talk about in your book also is doing a time audit. Absolutely. And, Bobbi, you and I were just talking. You talked about the fact that your book was in Cosmo, or in these business magazines. It wasn't that it just appeared there, but you did a lot of hard work. And so the hard work that goes into where you invested your time. So when you have this idea and this dream, you need to also do a time audit to say what time can you get back, and work that time for you and your dream.

“Your big idea and your dream, I can 100% bet it is not going to dwell within the zip code of your comfort zone. You are going to have to stretch beyond that, and it is probably going to take some radical action.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally related to tenacious experiences with dream bullies. I probably had more bullies, as she calls it, than supporters when I announced, a few years ago, that I was going to write a book with candid and personal money stories from super successful people while working full time in media, with three kids and a husband, and of course a dog.

Bobbi Rebell:
People were not only skeptical, some made really hurtful comments, and I know there was chatter behind my back at work. It was pretty bad. They really thought I would never pull it off. I had some supporters, don't get me wrong, but I wish I had Teneshia in my corner back then. But she's right, sometimes it's better to just not share your plans with them early on, especially if you kind of know they're not going to be supportive.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Do a time audit, kind of like those weight loss diaries where if you're write it down, you see what's going on, and that act in and of itself will change your behavior, and you'll have a better focus and be able to better allocate your time. You become more accountable. Don't necessarily though, share it with those dream bullies.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Teneshia’s website - egamigroup.com

• Teneshia’s new book The Big Stretch

Follow Teneshia!

• Instagram - @teneshiajwarner

• Facebook - @teneshiajwarner

• Twitter - @teneshiajwarner

• LinkedIn - @teneshiajackson

• Pinterest - @dreamcreative

Follow Egami Group!

• Instagram - @egamigroup

• Facebook - @EgamiConsulting

• Twitter - @egamigroup

• LinkedIn - @egami-consulting-group

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sometimes the best career role models are your first ones. For Ellevate Network CEO Kristy Wallace unfiltered advice from waitresses at a summer job she started as a teen still ring true. Plus her money tip that will instantly save us all cash and extra pounds this holiday season. 

Kristy’s Money Story:

Kristy Wallace:
Yeah, it was really interesting. I grew up in this tiny town in New Jersey, called Sea Isle City, and my sister and I worked at this Italian restaurant Bono's and we were teenagers when we did this. We worked there for years every summer, but all of the other waitresses were older. They were oftentimes already in college or many of them were teachers and this was their summer job when school was out. And they really helped instill in us values and perspective when it came to the work we were doing. Waitressing is so interesting because you get tips, you walk out of the door with cash every night and you can easily, especially if you're a young teenager want to go spend that money. But we saw from the teachers how much they saved that money. They worked really hard to get the tips. To keep track of that money and then saved it because that was what was helping to pay their bills and helping them during the school year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you tempted when you first started waitressing to just go out and spend the money?

Kristy Wallace:
Of course, of course. And especially I think when new have new driving cars. And so we wanted to go to the mall and buy things and just always going to Wawa, which was this convenience store there and buying drinks and sandwiches. I mean, it's so easy to just throw money away. And the advice that these other waitresses gave us around saving that money and using it more meaningfully. It really stood out. It stood out to me and it continues to stand out to me today because I think oftentimes it's, particularly now with credit cards and you just put your card down and buy, buy, buy and then suddenly you get the bill and it's wide eyes, sticker shock.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did the conversations start? I mean you guys were the new kids there, did they just see what was going on that you were spending your money? What happened?

Kristy Wallace:
I think the conversation started earlier in the season when things were a little bit slower and they would be talking about, how much money did you make last night or tonight, things are a bit slow. Here's how much I'm hoping to make this summer. This is why it's important to make X amount of dollars a summer and how it helps with rent or helps pay my bills during these months and into the winter. So they were just with each other very honest and transparent about their expectations for how much money they wanted to make or needed to make, how they were going to use it and spend it. And we're very inclusive of my sister and I in those conversations. So clearly we didn't, we were still living at home, we were younger, we didn't have that perspective. And we I'm sure would say in this kind of some flippant comments like, Oh, we just go out and buy a bunch of stuff.

Kristy Wallace:
That's great. We have cash. And so they definitely sat us down and said, "Listen, waitressing is a great job but you end up with a lot of cash and it can be easy to not keep track of how much you're making and to put it in the bank and to manage it wisely. And you know, just for now, and especially when you're going to college in a few years and you're older, it's really important that you understand how you spend your money and you spend it wisely." A few years later when I was going to college and using the money I made in the summer to pay for my bills and expenses once I was in school, I came out of the gate just, with all the insights I needed to be successful in that budgeting and in that planning.

“Take the extra shifts.. Put in 110%. Understand how your work relates to the money you are making.”

Kristy’s Money Lesson:

Kristy Wallace:
Be mindful of how you spend your money. You really want to understand ways you can save how you spend the money, but then also the impact you personally can have on driving that income, right? And when I was waitressing, something that I learned from the other waitresses was tips are relational to service. So if you have good service and you work hard to be the best at your job, then you get some money or take the extra shifts. There were a number of summers, particularly once I was in college then I didn't take a single day off the entire summer. I worked every day and I loved it because that meant I was making money and I had my little book where I was keeping track of how much I was making and how much I wanted to make.

Kristy Wallace:
So the lesson is just put in 110%, understand how your work relates to the money that you're making, particularly as you get into the workforce into a corporate environment. Really looking at the work that you do, how that ties to the business and the business success, and using that as a motivator for you to do great work, but then also make that extra money and ask for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of extra money, you have extra money because of the everyday money tip that you're going to share. Tell us your everyday money tip.

“Do great work but also make that extra money. Ask for it. ”

Kristy’s Money Tip:

Kristy Wallace:
I have three kids at home. They are little kids and every month or week the grocery bills were astronomical. And at the same time I was finding that I was spending a lot of cash every week and I couldn't quite understand why. So I spent a lot of time, I looked at all my budgets, my numbers, and where I was spending money and how I was spending it. I love Excel spreadsheets, so I categorized everything. And realized it was spending not just a lot of money at the grocery store, but a lot of money eating out just during the week. Getting coffee, grabbing breakfast, lunch could easily add up to $20, $30 a day. And when you think about that over five days a week, plus the grocery bills, it really adds up. So I stopped doing that. I stopped eating out. I would bring my breakfast and lunch. My husband and I would make these little egg muffins.

Kristy Wallace:
You make eggs in a muffin tin, so they're easy to just grab and go and make coffee at home. A pound of coffee is $12 versus a $4 cup of coffee when you're out. I love making soups and stews. They're relatively inexpensive to make and they freeze and they last a long time, so I make a big pot every weekend of something and just found it to be not only easy but financially healthy. And healthy for me in terms of the food I was eating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I think the everyday money tip there is actually look at the numbers because this is not something new. It's not something that we haven't all thought of. We all know that we shouldn't be spending so much money out, but it takes a lot to actually sit down and say, "Wait, look at what I'm actually spending," to actually add up the receipts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Especially when your grocery bill was high as well, so you might've thought, well I don't want to spend more money on groceries and if you eat at home in theory you'd be spending more on groceries so it's all going to work out. Not so much. I think you have a great example and making things like soups and stews in batches. I think that's a key thing that you have it ready in advance. It's something that I need to work on more is to actually plan in advance what you're going to be bringing with you when you go out so you're not left scrounging for coffee because you didn't have the coffee machine set the night before. And also maybe have a coffee cup that's portable that you can bring with you because you don't have something to bring in the coffee with you and it's time to go. You're kind of stuck and you're going to buy that coffee on the run.

Kristy Wallace:
Plan ahead, be creative. There's lots of great sites and recipes out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your favorite site?

Kristy Wallace:
I like all recipes actually because it's crowdsourced and so there's kind of some fun things and the comments are really interesting. Food 52 is always great. There's some great bloggers out there. We will sometimes try to eat Paleo or maybe Whole 30, so some really great sites out there with some good modifications to recipes that are really healthy and delicious.

“Plan ahead. Be creative. There’s lot of great sites and recipes out there.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Let's talk about work ethic and the fact that while it's nice to enjoy your work, we all should. It is also about the money. In fact, if we're being honest, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are showing up because they are paying you money. I love that we're paying attention more these days to things like self-care and "work life" balance and it's about time that matters, but let's not forget Kristy's advice. Take the extra shifts because work is about making money. Not saying we can't all benefit from a little yoga. All that stuff matters too, but paying bills is also a form of wellness. Think of all the reduced stress by having extra cash in the bank. Don't lose sight of that.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Christie talks a lot about meal planning.With the holidays coming up maybe also do some shopping planning. We're just a smidge ahead of black Friday and there's nothing wrong with shopping, but if you plan out ahead of time what you're going to buy, those plans will go a long way to keeping you from buying something not on your list because it's on sale. That's not a good reason. I've fallen into that trap. Trust me, and also don't forget if you do fall into that trap and buy something and you regret it. As I've said before, don't be afraid to return it. You usually can. Problem solved.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Kristy’s website - www.ellevatenetwork.com

• Ellevate’s new peer networking circle Squads

• www.allrecipes.com

• food52.com

Follow Kristy!

• Instagram - @kristyawallace

• Twitter - @kristyawallace

• LinkedIn

Follow Ellevate Network!

• Instagram - @Ellevate_Ntwk

• Facebook - @EllevateNetwork

• Twitter - @EllevateNtwk

• Pinterest - @ellevatenetwork

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Just in time for the holidays, Jen Smith, co-host of the Frugal Friends podcast and the author of the new book "Pay Off Your Debt For Good" joins us with her spending strategies so we can all shop like Financial Grownups.

3 strategies to spend money like a Financial Grownup

1. Focus on your habits

2. Figure out what you value

3. Let go of guilt and shame

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jen’s Website - www.modernfrugality.com

• Jen’s podcast The Frugal Friends Podcast

• Jen’s new book - Pay Off Your Debt For Good

Follow Jen!

• Instagram - @modernfrugality

• Facebook - @modernfrugality

• Twitter - @modernfrugality

• Pinterest - @modernfrugality

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Money coach Whitney Hansen, who hosts the Money Nerds podcast, reveals how the pain of poverty and family instability almost led her to a tragic decision as a teenager. We also discuss how the challenges of true financial struggle can impact a family and inform priorities as an adult. 

Whitney’s Money Story:

Whitney Hansen:
I still get choked up about this too, even to this day. But it was a really tough time in my life because my parents were going through this divorce and they were married for a long time, six kids, so they had a really great life together. But my dad started a business and that business led to unhealthy habits. So he had really, I guess some issues with boundaries. It was a 365, 24/7 business. And so he turned to-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the business?

Whitney Hansen:
Pallet distributing.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's that?

Whitney Hansen:
Pallets, you always see him on Pinterest when people make like coffee tables and furniture and stuff from them, but it's what carries goods across the country in semi-trucks. So it's the wooden like crates almost. That's what his business was, was fixing those up and selling them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And so had he had that business before your parents got divorced or was it a new thing, so that was another change?

Whitney Hansen:
So it was before they officially got divorced. He started the business probably about 10 years before they officially divorced. And so it was just a really consuming business. He was terrible at delegating, could not find the right type of help. So instead of trusting people, he put all of that pressure on himself. And that led to having to take pallet calls at like two in the morning sometimes. It was just a nightmare. It really was.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then something happened with a mattress?

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, so with the mattress, after they divorced, my mom moved up to Boise and truly she left that relationship for her life. The abuse was getting so bad and it was just a terrible situation. And so she moved up to Boise making $7.25 an hour at a hobby and craft store and trying to support six kids in this little two bedroom apartment. And we were so broke, Bobbi, like we were broke. We didn't have any money at all, so we were sleeping on the floor.

Whitney Hansen:
My mom and I, one day we were walking and we found a mattress in the garbage can. So we went home, we grabbed her car, threw this on the top of the car. It's really that ridiculous. We both like had our hands out the window holding the mattress down and we took it home. But we were so freaking excited because for our family, that meant we didn't have to sleep on the floor. And it was such a sad moment, but such a powerful one. I was 16 and I will never forget that. It taught me my first personal finance lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about that.

Whitney Hansen:
Well, I started to really reflect on that and what I learned is that there's really a difference between a want and a need. A lot of times we say that we need something. Oh I need to get this new shirt, I need to get this new mattress, I need to get whatever it is.

Whitney Hansen:
But there's a huge difference between what we truly want and what we truly need. So I always carried that with me throughout my entire adulthood and my being a grownup. I mean that's something that I've always looked at, is this truly a want, Whitney, or is this a need? Of course it's like giving yourself permission to buy what you want on occasion, but always putting that in that perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about that time of your life. I mean, how did you survive? How did you get other things? Were you able to get it through people that were helpful to you? You were you working as a 16 year old?

Whitney Hansen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, so that's the sad thing. When you come from a really poor, poverty type situation, the families all working together to support everybody. So I had my own job. I had a job when I was actually 14 is when I officially started working. But I bought the family car when I was 16. My mom took out a loan, I made the payment, and I paid for the car insurance. That's just the way we did it.

Whitney Hansen:
We had a ton of help. Our church was super great. They were really helpful from that perspective as well. But I didn't deal with it well. I've actually never shared this publicly, but when I was 16 I was hospitalized for suicide.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, it was a terrible time. It really was not great. But what I started learning from all of this stuff was that when you have control over your money, you have options, and that's what I decided when I was 16, I was never going to be stuck in a really crappy situation because of money. I knew that was something I always wanted to have control over.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you having with your mom? Because at 16 you're not that young. You know what's up.

Whitney Hansen:
Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely did know what was up. One of the biggest conversations that she shared with me was the importance of education. That was the one thing she had regretted her entire life. Her family did pretty well. Her parents died when she was really young. They did well enough that they left her some money for college, but she blew through it all with my dad. They just were very financially irresponsible. So that was one of the big conversations was Whitney, you need to get an education. You need to make sure you can take care of yourself no matter what. So that was always the focus of the conversation when I was a kid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you in the sibling order? What were your other siblings doing at this time in your life?

Whitney Hansen:
Second oldest. My oldest sister, she had quite a rough childhood herself, of course. She ended up moving out of the house officially when she was 16. She moved in with her boyfriend at that time. She has four kids now, so she's doing super great. But she was running her own family. She got pregnant when she was 17 in high school.

“When you have control over your money you have options. ”

Whitney’s Money Lesson:

Whitney Hansen:
I think the biggest lesson is how much control you have when you have money. When you have that money instead of just immediately blowing it on stuff that we don't really need, if you start to prioritize your own financial responsibility, and as a woman especially, you have to be able to take care of yourself in some capacity.

Whitney Hansen:
Now that's not saying don't be a stay at home mom if that's your dream, do it. But make sure that you have some skills that you can fall back on. I think that's one of the biggest lessons I can impart for people is just make sure you can take care of yourself, whether it's divorce or death or disease, we don't know what's going to happen in life with our partners, so you have to be able to really financially take care of yourself and be a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so impactful what you're saying and really hits home with so many people because we don't know it. It may be something like a divorce, but also sometimes people become injured. Your partner may lose their job. There can be a lot of unintended things that happen and things that you can't possibly plan for, but you have to always be able to have an income stream, even if you take it up and down at different points in your life. Having that ability and the education to do that is really important.

“Make sure you can take care of yourself..we don’t know what is going in life with our partners so you have to really be able to take care of yourself financially and really be a grownup.”

Whitney’s Money Tip:

Whitney Hansen:
Oh, I love this. This is such a nerdy one, but it works wonders. My favorite tip in the world is for any person that's trying to better their financial life and doesn't quite know where their money's going, to print off your past 30 days of your bank statement and or your credit card statement anymore, we have Venmo as well, that all counts. Print those off, have those sitting in front of you and then assign three different categories that you tend to overspend on. So for me it's eating out, it's coffee, and it's Amazon. Amazon's the worst for me. So I will print off those statements, I'll write those at the top, and I will literally go line by line and highlight each of the different transactions as a specific color to make sure that I am looking at every single transaction.

Whitney Hansen:
It works like crazy because you have to highlight those transactions and you have to remember I'm the one that swiped my card this many times. This is on me. I think it's so much more personal than just like a roll up thing. I love apps and software. I think they're amazing, but when it's just a roll up number, it's not the same as when you actually have to physically highlight those things. It really does trigger a lot of changes in your financial life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us an example of something, especially when you first started doing this, that you noticed that you were surprised by.

Whitney Hansen:
For me, I've always been pretty frugal because of my background, but what I can tell you is I did this in a group with a bunch of college students, actually. We were doing this exercise and one guy kind of looked up and he had this deer in the headlights look. He was all white, and I'm not a nurse, but I'm like "Dude, are you all right? Do you need to get out of here? What's going on?" And he's like "Well, I just finally realized how much I spent on eating out." I'm like "Okay, cool. Well, how much should you spend?"

Whitney Hansen:
"I spent $400."

Whitney Hansen:
Now I think you and I get that that's not necessarily good or bad, it's all a proportion of your income. But he told me his income was $800 per month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Whitney Hansen:
I was like "Well, homie, I think 50% going directly towards eating out is probably not great." But he had no idea because he was just mindlessly spending and not even paying attention. I think it's really normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, a lot of us don't know. What about for you personally, what have you noticed?

Whitney Hansen:
For what I've noticed, this is really interesting, whenever I feel insecure or not so great about myself or I'm like dealing with some self esteem issues or whatever it might be, I'm not feeling as confident, I tend to spend more money on clothes and things that I don't need. I see this in my spending. If I'm having a crap week where I'm just not feeling great about myself, I don't feel like I'm cute enough. I don't feel like I'm skinny enough, whatever the heck it might be, I see that in my spending. So for me, I have to really pay attention to that and just monitor my spending to make sure if I do have a bad week, I'm not actually just blowing money because I'm not feeling super great about myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and what's good about that is with things like clothing, everybody, you can return it.

Whitney Hansen:
Yes, you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you haven't taken the tags off or anything.

Whitney Hansen:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So don't wear it. So versus like going out and eating, like the gentleman you were talking about, that can be at least corrected, right?

Whitney Hansen:
Absolutely. I think that awareness is key. So when you do this exercise, you're going to get that awareness. Then you can start to say, am I okay with these charges? Or if you want to fix it, you can. I think that's the beautiful thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk more about The Money Nerds Podcast, because this is one of my go to's. I love it that it's three days a week and you do different things. So you do Mondays, you talk about just kind of what you like. Then another day you have your sort of normal format where you do interviews, and then Fridays are always these five tips that are things you can really do in your life right away.

“Whenever I feel insecure.. I tend to spend more money on clothes and things I don’t need.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

If your financial problems are weighing on you mentally, you must get help. Please find the right professional. You are not alone. We've all been there and there are many organizations out there that can work with your budget, even if that budget is zero. Many employers also offer mental health counseling that is often a free benefits.

Financial grownup tip number two:

We talk a lot about apps and online resources for your finances on this show, and yes, there are a lot of resources also for mental health online. I'm going to give you links to some articles in the show notes that list options, but here are some that stand out that are pretty popular. One is Talkspace. Another one is BetterHelp, and then 7 Cups of Tea, which is more of a peer to peer resource where someone, maybe like you, can just be someone to listen to you and hear what's going on in your life. I want to caution you guys. I have no affiliation with any of these and I have not vetted them directly myself, but they are places to start and do your own homework.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Whitney’s website - www.whitneyhansen.com/

• Whitney’s podcast - The Money Nerds

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @whitney_hansen_co

• Facebook - @WhitneyHansenCo

• Twitter - @whitneyhansenco

• YouTube - @thewhitneyhansen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The gig economy is not going away anytime soon and that means we have a big challenge because a lot of us dong’ get steady paychecks. Freelance writer and personal finance expert Zina Kumok of ConsciousCoins.com shares her success strategies and more.

5 Ways to Manage Unsteady Income

• Make sure to have an Emergency Fund

• Find the minimum amount you need to earn a month

• Having extra money

• Diversification

• Increase your rates on a regular basis

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Zina’s Website - www.consciouscoins.com

Follow Zina!

• Instagram - @zinakumok

• Facebook - @consciouscoins

• Twitter - @zinakumok

• Pinterest - @zinakumok

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Journalist and author Nicole Lapin shares a hilarious story of how a lack of preparation almost led to total humiliation.  Plus why procrastination can be a good thing for financial grownups.

Nicole’s Money Story:

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. I started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc when I was 18 years old, and when I was asked if I knew anything about money news or business news, I totally lied, and I faked it till I made it. And then I had to become real, because I found that money is just a language like anything else, and I could not speak that language. So I was going to interview the founders of a tech company at the time and my boss, who was awesome, said to me as I ran out the door, and I would always carry like a big diaper bag, almost combat ready with all sorts of stuff, like a poncho just in case, from my time in actual general news, I didn't know what would happen. I was combat ready. And he was like, "Do you have the P&L?" You know, a lot of people call me NL or Lapin for short.

Nicole Lapin:
And I was like, "No dude, I'm good. I don't need to pee." And I get to the interview and the PR person was like, "Do you have the P&L?" And I'm like, okay, think, Lapin, think. She is not asking you if you need to pee, this must be a money term. I sit down with the founders, and they're like, our profits, as you can see from our P&L, you know, blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, okay, has to do with profits, think, think, think. Profits. L, losses. And I kept saying PnL, like Kibbles 'n Bits, and I didn't even know it was an and. Like, I just was so clueless, and that was a great example of how I had to think about this right on the spot and definitely was not prepared.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so what happened? How did this play out? Did you have an aha moment in the middle of the interview?

Nicole Lapin:
I had the aha moment, and I knew enough that it had to do with their balance sheet, and so I could sort of dance around it and get through the interview. Then after that I wrote down PnL, like N for Nicole, and then it took me another hot minute to realize there was an and sign. It was like profits and losses.

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, did you confess to anyone? Did you tell your boss, "I didn't know what that meant," or did you just keep going?

Nicole Lapin:
No, no, no, no, no. I just had super intense imposter syndrome, and I just thought everyone was going to figure out that I didn't know what I was talking about, and I would have never, ever admitted at the time that I couldn't speak this language. I only now can talk about this, very gladly in hindsight. I love making fun of myself with the most embarrassing money stories, but no, definitely not at the time.

“Money is an intimidating language. It’s ok if you can’t speak the language. Just ask what something means.”

Nicole’s Money Lesson:

Nicole Lapin:
I think realizing that money is an intimidating language. We just don't have a Rosetta Stone for this growing up. And it's okay if you can't speak the language. Just ask what something means. I've talked to COs of major publicly traded companies who have asked me like what does [inaudible 00:06:00] mean, for example, like right before we went on the air, and I was like, "Dude, it's just the bond buyback program." Like, no big deal. And they were like, "Yeah, I just didn't know the terminology." And so there's lots of terminology that sounds confusing. If you went to China and you didn't speak Chinese, you'd be confused. If you went to Wall Street and you didn't speak the language of money, you would be confused, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you're saying that, because so many of us kind of nod and pretend we understand something and maybe make decisions that we shouldn't make, because we don't want to admit that we don't get it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah, totally. And you're definitely not alone. I think a lot of people smile and nod and don't join basic money conversations because they're too intimidated and too scared to admit that they don't know what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And by the way, your website and your books are a tremendous resource for understanding a lot of this stuff.

“I aim for progress and not perfection. If I have more good days than bad days then I am totally winning.”

Nicole’s Money Tip:

Nicole Lapin:
I like to rethink conventional financial wisdom, conventional business wisdom. And yes, you're right. I rewrite financial dictionaries and business dictionaries. I did it in the back of Rich (beep) and Boss (beep). This is maybe why I'm single. But at the end of every chapter in every book, I rethink conventional wisdom to hopefully help you think for yourself. And procrastination is often used as a bad word. It's used as something that you should avoid, but I actually think that you can not fully procrastinate, because it's so cathartic to cross out all the things on your to-do list, like, here we go, dry cleaning, you know, pick up this, blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, those things might not move you towards your goals. So if you remind yourself of what you're working toward and what you have to do and almost connect the dots, I came up with a Super Woman journal that's a companion journal along with Becoming Super Woman to help you do that throughout the day, and I create this point system that's almost like a weight loss sort of system that allows you to give yourself points for things you're focusing on and forgive yourself first if you're not focusing on just the then and there. Because I think we can have it all. We just can't do it all, especially not at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And another thing that I love about the book is you have these really compelling quotes. For example, related to what we were just talking about, you have a quote from Mark Twain, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow," which makes a lot of sense when you really think about the reasoning behind it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. If you have to pick up your dry cleaning or something, and you need to get something done that will move you toward making your side hustle your full time hustle, I would do that and then get your dry cleaning, unless you really have like nothing, nothing to wear. I would do that later on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing in the book that I love is that you have not just a to-do list, but a have done list.

Nicole Lapin:
Yes. Because, you know, we often get into this mode of we've just not accomplished anything, and we're not doing anything compared to everybody else on Instagram. And I think comparison is the thief of joy, and also we tend to compare ourselves to the best version of each aspect of our lives. So we compare our fitness regime to a fitness blogger who works out five hours a day, or our mommy life to that of a mommy YouTuber who bakes bread for her kids and homeschools them. That's not realistic. And so if we get into that cycle and we don't have the definition of what success is to us, we often feel inadequate. We shouldn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, we should not feel inadequate. But one thing that you also work through in the book is you have specific plans for people to organize and get towards those goals in a realistic way, not in a way where you're trying to keep up with somebody, like you were just talking about.

“Comparison is the thief of joy”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

We didn't get to this in the interview, but a lot of Nicole's advice focuses on productivity and avoiding distraction and all the stress that that causes, and of course spending time when you didn't mean to on things. For example, she recommends a browser extension called unroll.me. It's free, and I am now using it. I will leave a link in the show notes. You can always find the show notes by going to bobbirebell.com and then going to the Financial Grownup podcast area. There's also a handy search box in the upper right hand corner, where you can always just type in the guest name or any keyword, but definitely check out unroll.me.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Another one from Nicole's book was to keep emails to five sentences. If it has to be longer than five sentences, then it deserves a phone call. I'm going to start trying that in my workflow. We'll see how it goes, but if you do it, too, let me know how it goes.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Nicole’s website - nicolelapin.com

• Nicole’s book Becoming Super Woman

Follow Nicole!

• Instagram - @nicolelapin

• Facebook - @NicoleLapin

• Twitter - @NicoleLapin

• YouTube - @NicoleLapin

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ghost writer Stephanie Krikorian trusted a financial planner with her investments after a big layoff a decade ago. But years later discovered blind trust was costing her, and learned to read the paperwork, and take grownup ownership of her money strategy.  

Stephanie's money story:

Steph Krikorian:
So, basically, I get laid off and I did two quick things. I refinanced while I still had a paycheck coming in, because rates were down and they hadn't been for awhile. I thought that was a smart thing to do. Secondly, I went to this financial planner and merged several 401ks, because I had been at several jobs and never really paid much attention to it. I always put in the max that I could, et cetera. But I thought, "This will help me move it, and then I can focus on finding a job or starting a business, whichever I'm going to do."

Steph Krikorian:
I remember meeting with this financial planner and asking a very specific question, "How are you paid?" My understanding when I left that meeting, and I interview people for a living, so I feel fairly confident I was given a certain answer and didn't make that mistake, but maybe I did, my understanding was the payment for the financial planner was based on money I made, so that if I made 10%, the financial planner was paid a percentage of that. So, I do all these things, and I am on my own little austerity program. I'm doing a single pump of shampoo. You can read about all the crazy things I did to not waste money while I was trying to, you know, make sure I didn't overspend. ,I was trying to stay on my budget. I invested. I knew I had to save. Even when there was no money coming in, even though I cut everything else out, I scraped together a certain amount of money.

Steph Krikorian:
So, in the meantime, I start going on the Zen Bender, because I start reading self-help books. I've reinvented myself. I start reading self-help books. I start getting obsessed-

Bobbi Rebell:
This is all because you're ghostwriting a lot of them too, so you're really immersing yourself in your material.

Steph Krikorian:
That's how it started. I really was immersing myself in the material, because everybody has a book idea, and then they say, "Oh, it's like the Suze Orman of such and such or the Marie Kondo of such and such." So, I was reading for research, but as I read, I also got a little obsessed, because I said, "Oh my God. There's all these fixes out there. I must have all these holes in my life to fill. I'm single. I'm thick around the middle, because everyone wants to lose a few pounds. I'm trying to figure out my career." So, I started grasping at all these things a little more than necessary, as per the research.

Steph Krikorian:
So, I take my eye off the ball of what I think I had set up with the financial planner, and I spend hoards of money on Reiki, and rainbow healers, and dating coaches. You know, I could've basically probably gone to law school instead and done something productive. But all of this time I think, "You know, I've made my budget. I'm following the rules. I'm being careful." But somewhere in all that mishmash, kind of the point of the Zen Bender was I lost a little bit of confidence. I stopped trusting my gut and I kind of took my eye off the ball of the important things and ceded a lot of power to these ... you know, this dating coach who's telling me, "You've got to wear high heels and have shiny hair in order to find a husband, because he'll think you're fertile, and he'll want to marry you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And probably very expensive heels too.

Steph Krikorian:
[inaudible 00:06:24] I got $200 a pop, but if you do five, then of course X,Y,Z is going to happen. The doors will open up. I had started treating my business like a business. Even though it's writing, I formed an LLC. I have a lawyer. I outsource things like copy editing, because I wanted to only do the work that was mission-critical. So, I was making enough money. It wasn't like I was on my credit card doing this stuff. You know? There were lean years the first couple of years. Then I started getting on my feet and I started making enough money.

Steph Krikorian:
Somewhere in there I have a call from my financial planner. Also, in fairness, if I step back and look at it, she gave me a couple of pieces of advice which were, "Sell all your stock from your first job," which was General Electric stock, which at the time was not a good suggestion, and, "Dump this apartment, even at a loss." I disregarded both pieces of advice. I was not going to dump that apartment at a loss. I was going to make my payments, and I was going to save it, that investment. So, I didn't take that warning sign, you know? That should have made me a little nervous, and it didn't, because I knew better. I'd worked in financial news, like you, and I knew that wasn't right. Every year I'm putting together the maximum I can scrape in and put in, but nothing's really moving in the fund. I'm in one of those funds as you age, you know, with the term and the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
The target date fund, which sometimes have double fees. Sometimes those can be very expensive.

Steph Krikorian:
Right. It didn't seem to be doing a lot, and I thought, "Oh, it must just be the time, you know. Whatever." So, we have this call and she suggests, since I've reached a certain milestone, she explains there's this, you know, almost like a fund of funds with these various ETFs in the same thing. It sort of ages as you go and it's really something to consider. I said, "Okay. Great. I guess so. Sure." She said, "And the fee is so much less. It's almost half,| or whatever. I say, "Oh, what's the fee been generally, because it shouldn't ... you know, we haven't made a lot of money, so it couldn't possibly be very high." She tells me the percentage, and I do the math, and I get furious.

Steph Krikorian:
I'm like, "Wait a minute. You're charging more out of my fund than I'm depositing every year. You should have seen that." You know, she said, "Well, I don't keep track of who's putting in more or who's not." I'm like, "That's your single job. That's like your only job, to be ... Maybe you should've stopped and said, 'Hey. I don't think you need to be in here. Just go to Fidelity and buy a fund.'" I was mad at her, but honestly I was more mad at myself, because the one thing I probably should have spent the time on was understanding what was going on there. But I got so lost in the haze of all the chaos and life change that was happening, that I trusted the professional to handle it, and I don't think ... She didn't do anything negligent or anything like that. She did what she told me she would do. It's just I didn't double check. I think you have to stay on top of these things, because the single most important thing is your money, period. It really is.

“Nobody reads the fine print. So you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check in and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. ”

Stephanie’s money lesson:

Steph Krikorian:
Double check, double check, double check, and then quarterly, when you have those check-ins, check, and maybe you're smarter than the experts. Maybe if you're in a single fund, investigate the other ways to invest in that single fund, so that you don't pay the load that you're paying a financial planner,` who has much wealthier clients to make money off of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was she a fiduciary? Do you know? Was she a CFP? Was she a fiduciary?

Steph Krikorian:
Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Steph Krikorian:
Yeah. It was a big firm and all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She did her job.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she informed you. You just didn't hear I guess is what you're saying.

Steph Krikorian:
I misunderstood at the beginning and I was an early client.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a financial journalist.

Steph Krikorian:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness, Stephanie. What hope is there for everybody else?

Steph Krikorian:
I know, and I wonder. I was an early client of hers, and she was just starting out. I liked her, because she was woman and she was new, and people were giving me a chance, and I gave her a chance. I still don't regret that, but I think, you know, these things aren't transparent. You can't tell how much you pay. In fairness to anybody, it's hard to tell what percentage you're paying in these things. So, I think you have to ask those questions regularly, because things also change, and nobody reads the fine print. So, you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check-in, and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. I check my bank account to see ... You know, my bank account got hacked. If I didn't check as frequently as I did, I would never have known. So, you-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Steph Krikorian:
It did. Yeah. They had my name. They had my bank account. Must've been off a piece of paper or a bill. They were trying to get in there. They didn't get anything. But, so, you have to always check. Nothing to do with your money should ever be on autopilot, even paying your bills. You know, you can miss a bill, because autopilot is not the way to go, and that's for your financial planning and your daily accounts. You got to keep a tally.

“Walking solves all my problems… It helps creatively, it helps anxiety.. and saves some money. ”

Stephanie's everyday money tip:

Steph Krikorian:
So, you can get really caught up into these things. The average price for any of these sessions is $200. It's very easy to get-

Bobbi Rebell:
For what? I'm sorry. $200 for what?

Steph Krikorian:
Like Reiki, the astrologist, acupuncture. $200 seems to be the going rate of 2019, and buying five packs is very easy to get caught up. I would say this. Try anything, because there's a placebo effect or you find it inspiring. Try anything once. Don't buy the five packs. Just try it and see, and then step away and think of it. Don't get caught up in it. But more importantly, what I found, after all of the sessions, and all of the coaches, and thousands of dollars on a dating coach, I'm still single.

Steph Krikorian:
All the diets I tried and paid for and I think of how much per pound I've spent trying to lose the same 5, 10 pounds. Go for a walk, and then go for another walk, and then walk for more, longer, longer, longer. Walking solves all my problems, and it took me ... I knew that at the beginning, and then I didn't figure it out until the end, but it helps creatively. It helps anxiety. It does the same trick as some of this other stuff does, and it helps you work out, and it's good for your health, and so do that. That's my suggestion. Save some money. Do everything that you want to do, but just once in a while. Don't go on a Zen Bender, like I did, and hit it all hard, all at once, all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing advice, and it's so true about walking. I get all my best ideas when I'm walking. It's also a great way to socialize, instead of going somewhere and spending money on food that will cost you money and weight.

Steph Krikorian:
What was the scariest thing to write? Oh, a lot of it was scary. It set out to be a book on humor, you know, a humor book on all these crazy things I tried, and then as I wrote it, I'm like thinking, "Well, why did I do that?" I think a couple of things, quickly, how much weight has held me back in life. You know, we all wish we were a little thinner I think. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Me.

Steph Krikorian:
I think-

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm raising my hand.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly. And we all wish that we could drop a few pounds, and I spent a little bit too much time obsessing about that. That was sort of disappointing, and I was surprised I was able to put that on the page, because I really don't like to talk about it. I think being single, you know, I kind of likened the dating at ... I'm 50 now, but this whole book took place in my 40s. It's like shopping at Marshall's or T.J.Maxx. Everything is picked over. It's like seconds right now. So, that was a lot for me to talk about. You know, I had a hard time with that.

Steph Krikorian:
The realization I came to through writing and through discussing it is that after doing the Marie Kondo, I Marie Kondo'd, the living crap out of my house, including my freezer, did the doors open up? I don't know, but I learned to say no to things that didn't bring me joy. I don't think that was her intent in the book. I think that was, as interesting as ... It wasn't a hard to write about that, but it was an interesting learning experience for me that that takeaway kind of came through the process of trying to be funny about folding my socks, rolling my socks a certain way, that all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have a hard time saying no to things. Now, I'm a little better at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all working on that. I think that's a big theme these days is sometimes it's okay to just decline an invitation, even if you don't have a conflict. Just say, "I'm sorry. I can't make it," and don't elaborate.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly.

“After doing the Marie Kondo..  I learned to say no to things that didn’t bring me joy.. that takeaway kind of came through the process of rolling my socks a certain way that I realized I have a hard time saying no to things.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one.:

Buy what you want if you want to be trying things. That's always all good. But when Stephanie talks about buying the five packs, that applies to pretty much any upsell that you get in life. Yes. You do get a better price per item, but you also get more items than you want or need.

Financial grownup tip number two:

If you aren't sure that you understand how someone controlling your money gets paid, keep asking until you are beyond 100% sure. Stephanie is educated and smart and was literally writing about money for her job, but she made assumptions that were not correct.

As a financial grownup, I love that she takes ownership that maybe she didn't understand what she thought she did. It can happen to any of us, if it can happen to Stephanie. Read, and reread, and then, as Stephanie recommends, go do regular check-ins, as she now does, and of course be careful with automation. It is a great tool for regular bills and such, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be checking as well. How are you doing on this front? Do you understand how people or companies that hold your money ore paid? Is free really free if there are maybe commissions or fees in there that you may not know about. Maybe they're disclosed in very tiny print, because if something is truly free, well, then how is the company making money? You need to ask what is going on on the other side.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Stephanie’s website http://stephaniekrikorian.com/

• Stephanie’s book ZenBender

Follow Stephanie!

• Instagram - @stephiekrik

• Facebook - @skrikorian

• Twitter - @stephiekrik

• LinkedIn - @stephaniekrikorian

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

YouTube superstar Sarah Wilson documented and inspired others with her journey to being debt free. But after she got to do the debt free scream with Dave Ramsey, she had a whole new set of challenges. Plus Sarah saves Bobbi from buying things she can get for free at the Fincon conference. 

Sarah's money story:

sarah wilson:
five years ago I was working in a newspaper for about $26,000 a year. I had deferred my student loans from college, and there were $33,000 of them. I lost my job. Suddenly I was extremely scared and I swore to myself that whenever I got a new job, I would figure this money thing out. Because being unemployed would've been so much less stressful had I not had $33,000 worth of student debt looming.

sarah wilson:
So, I got a new job making $26,000 a year at a newspaper, in a new state, and I started budgeting. I did everything possible to lower my expenses, increase my income, side hustling. And over the next three years, I actually documented it on YouTube. Every single week, I'd go on and tell people how much debt I had left and what I was doing that week to help fix it. It took me three years and a couple of different jobs where I raised my income a little each time, but I paid off all my debt.

bobbi rebell:
We're so proud of you for that. And also, what you're leaving out with your modesty is that while you were doing this, there was something about you. You have a relatability and an it factor that you also developed a huge following of fans and supporters while doing this. How many YouTube subscribers do you have right now?

sarah wilson:
A little over 56,000.

bobbi rebell:
Wow. And you also have monetized that. So, you actually have this side business of this YouTube channel, which is really inspiring and helping so many people. Then you hit a big milestone a year ago and that changed everything. We're going to start your story, your money story that you're going to share, with a big scream.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I actually went on the Dave Ramsey show because I was a huge fan of his and I was following his steps to get out of debt. I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.

bobbi rebell:
It's a big milestone and it brings us to what we want to talk about, which is what happens when you reach your money goal. Because your money goal was to be debt free. That scream was so symbolic. Then what?

sarah wilson:
The first thing I decided was to save up a giant chunk of money. Once again, ala Dave Ramsey. I saved six months worth of living expenses in case I ever lost my job again. I would be okay for a while. Or if I suddenly got into a car accident, or a medical thing, it just gives so much peace to know that I have 10 grand sitting in a interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.

sarah wilson:
And then I also started investing, which is super fun and kind of intimidating for someone who was never taught about money.

bobbi rebell:
How did you start investing?

sarah wilson:
I did a lot of research, and procrastinated way too long. And then I just kind of jumped in. I bought a few index funds. I did a little robo-investing. Just kind of got my feet wet and figured out what was right for me. I'm still exploring that. I'm starting to purchase, actually, some single stocks and do some more exploratory stuff.

sarah wilson:
I funded my... I did more retirement funding for her, so I opened a couple of Roth IRAs. It's a really fun time now because I'm learning about all of that, which was not within my capacity when I was getting out of debt. I couldn't think about future dreams then.

bobbi rebell:
How specifically are you learning? What are your tools and how did you set up these things? I mean, if we get really basic, did you choose a robo-advisor? Did you just walk into a branch of a brokerage firm? I mean, what specifically did you do at that point?

sarah wilson:
Well, I tried working with a planner first and then I didn't like that. They wanted 5% of whatever I invested and I was like, "You know what? No. I can figure this out. I figured out how to get out of debt. I can figure this out on my own."

sarah wilson:
So, I've read every single thing that Bigger Pockets has ever wrote. I've watched so many YouTube channels that my friends are on. As they've learned, they've shared that information as well, which is incredible. And read a couple of books. Erin's Broke Millennial's Guide To Investing, TFD, all of it.

bobbi rebell:
The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
It's The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Oh, I'm sorry, the Financial Diet. And of course, How To Be a Financial Grownup by someone you might know.

bobbi rebell:
Thank you. I think education is such an important message. As you go through the different phases of being a grownup, your phase one was paying off the debt. Your phase two is educating yourself to grow your money. So, you didn't go with a financial advisor that wanted to take 5%. What did you go with? Are you with a discount brokerage. Are you with a robo-advisor? How did you come to those decisions?

sarah wilson:
Right. I don't advise people who watch my channel to do this, because I think you should do things more simply. But I have, probably, 15 different investment accounts. I have accounts at Vanguard. I have accounts at different robo-advisors. Because I wanted to try everything, and I wanted to see the pros and cons.

bobbi rebell:
So, you're sampling?

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I'm sampling. I will continue to kind of narrow things as I figure out what is right for me. The different fee structures, pros and cons, that kind of thing.

bobbi rebell:
That's interesting. And so-

sarah wilson:
I'm not advising that. People ask me like, "Well, what do you think of Robinhood?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Let me go try it."

bobbi rebell:
Right. Well, one thing that people should... I just want to note. Very often, if you do consolidate your money and you get to a certain level, you can get benefits at these things.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
So, I do advise you even though I don't... But I advise you to consider consolidating into fewer accounts than 15 at some point.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
Because there are often benefits. People do want to reward their better customers. And also, from a question of just tracking your money and having those efficiencies. That might be something to consider.

sarah wilson:
I have a lot of spreadsheets right now.

bobbi rebell:
You mentioned in terms of your bigger picture life planning, what have you been able to do since paying off your debt?

sarah wilson:
The next big thing is going to be buying a multifamily property, and house hacking that into another stream of income. This is something I never dreamed of before. I never thought I'd be able to buy a house on a currently around $50,000 a year. But I have no debt. I live off of about 50 to 60% of my income, invest and save the rest.

bobbi rebell:
And explain what house hacking is. And that's a topic we're going to cover, actually, on a new Financial Grownup episode coming up.

sarah wilson:
Wonderful. House hacking is say I purchased a duplex for $200,000. Because I live in Texas and I'm very lucky. So, I move into one unit and then the other unit I rent out for say a little bit above what my mortgage payment and taxes are for the entire property. Suddenly, I've got essentially someone else, a renter, paying my mortgage for me. I've opened up another line of income and I'm also building equity in this home. In a couple of years, I can be saving the money that I'm saving on rent and do that again. Rent out both sides and maybe move into a different property, or maybe a fourplex.

“I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.”

Sarah’s money lesson:

sarah wilson:
I think that money mastery is a muscle and that none of us are born with it. And if we had been having this conversation three years ago, it would've been like, "I can't talk about house hacking. I can't talk about investing right now. I can't. I don't have the capacity."

sarah wilson:
But by doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it's cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or ballsing up and opening your first investing account, even though you're a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free. You just have to keep moving forward one step at a time. You can't just suddenly wake up and be you.

bobbi rebell:
You make a great point to not be afraid. And even though I do hope that you eventually consolidate your 15 accounts, I do think there's something to be said for just starting. If you open an account at a brokerage firm and you decide, for whatever reason, it's not the right fit, you can move that money to someplace that is a better fit. It doesn't have to be forever, but it should be starting.

“It just gives so much peace to know that I have $10,000 sitting in an interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.”

Sarah's everyday money tip:

bobbi rebell:
I want to transition to talking about your money tip because this is something that I totally did not know. I am significantly older than you, but apparently other people do. My husband made fun of me now for not knowing this. However, I feel that I have to be honest that I did not know to do this all these years, and maybe there are other people out there that haven't.

bobbi rebell:
We were chatting earlier at FinCon and I mentioned that I'd forgotten toothpaste. I had a toothbrush, I forgot the toothpaste. You gave me this amazing advice because I was about to go buy one. Go for it. What's your money tip?

sarah wilson:
I told you to go down to the front desk and ask the concierge, or hospitality, or the front desk clerk, just tell them that you forgot your toothpaste and toothbrush and they will give you one.

bobbi rebell:
For free.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, completely free. Like 50 feet away from the gift shop where they sell a miniature size toothpaste for $4 and a toothbrush for 3. He'll just hand you one.

bobbi rebell:
Not only did they give me toothpaste, they gave me a toothbrush. A full size toothbrush, by the way, Sarah.

sarah wilson:
Yeah. Like an Oral B toothbrush and then like Crest mini toothpaste.

bobbi rebell:
Totally.

sarah wilson:
It's the good stuff.

bobbi rebell:
And apparently they give away other stuff. The concierge.

sarah wilson:
What else do they give away?

bobbi rebell:
My husband has informed me they give away combs. They can give you a razor. All kinds of things that you would go to the gift shop right next door and purchase.

“By doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it’s cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or opening your first investing account, even though you’re a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free.”

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

I never thought about the fact that hotels and tons of other places that we visit, that we see throughout our everyday lives, have lost and founds. They do, guys. It's not just school.

When you're growing up, this can be very important. If you lose something, or misplace it, or maybe if you need a charger, like Sarah did. I know this is very basic, but just like I didn't know that you could just ask for things for free from a hotel front desk, that were for sale right around the corner. Make sure that if you misplace something, or you just maybe need to borrow something, again like a charger, you ask if there is a lost and found. Maybe the thing that you lost is there, or maybe something that you need to borrow is there.

I once left a pair of shoes in a hotel. Don't ask how I lost the shoes. I was wearing other shoes. Just trust me. And I called anyway. They looked in the lost and found. Sure enough, they were there and they mailed the shoes to me. All is not lost. Just ask.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Financial Grownup tip number two. Sarah is all over the place with her investing. That's her thing right now. We're not going to judge. But I do want to caution that although I said in our interview that you don't want your resources too scattered, and that there are often perks that you get if you have larger balances and you consolidate in one place, it's also okay to have your resources in a few places. Maybe not, and I know it's an expression but, put all your eggs in one basket. Put all your eggs in just a few baskets. Not too many, but a few.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but sometimes things do go wrong. There have been companies that have gone out of business, or sometimes something not so legal happens in some places that seem to be pretty above board until they're not. So, it's okay to have your wealth in a few places. Make sure that they have the appropriate protections in place. Whether it's a bank with FDIC insurance. Or SIPC, for example, for a brokerage. And understand what that protects.

For example, SIPC is not going to protect you from a stock's value going down. That's just the market. What it does protect you from is the custody function of a broker. So, if a brokerage firm fails, that's going to give you some limited protection. Take the time to understand the protections for your investments when you choose what entities to park your money in. Whether it's banks or brokerage firms, what have you, there's a lot of startups, make sure that they've been vetted, make sure you understand the protections that are in place. Made a deliberate decision about how many entities you're going to be parking in your money in. Again, 15 seems like a lot. Whatever works for you, though. I think it's your decision. Just make sure it is deliberate, as I said.

Episode Links:

• Sarah’s Website - www.gobudgetgirl.com

• Sarah’s Dave Ramsey Debt Free Scream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ofhfT4mx7s

Follow Sarah!

• YouTube - @BudgetGirl

• Facebook - @GoBudgetGirl

• Instagram - @GoBudgetGirl

• Twitter - @GoBudgetGirl

• Pinterest - @GoBudgetGirl

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When Park Place Payments founder and CEO Samantha Ettus was just getting started in her career, family vacations were not in the budget. But she found a way to get a luxury vacation for free, with a little creativity, and a sense of adventure.

Samantha's money story:

Samantha Ettus:
Oh my gosh. You're the first person I've shared this with on air, but this is a little bit embarrassing. That's okay. We go way back, so I'll share it with you. But I was pregnant with my third child, and I had two little ones, Ella and Ruby, who were both under age five at the time. And spring break was coming up. We were in a very small New York City apartment. It was 1400 square feet. And I was freezing and just exhausted, and I said to my husband, "Where are we going to go spring break when the kids are off?" And he was like, "What do you mean? You have a book coming up that you have to work on, and I have this business I just started, and there is no budget for a vacation." I kind of had my own version of like an adult temper tantrum where I was crying and emotional and pregnant, very pregnant, and just beside myself that there was no way to get out of Dodge basically.

Samantha Ettus:
So basically we got in this argument and he said, "Well, if you can figure out how to do it for free, I'll take the time off." I said, "Okay, I'm going to do it." The first thing I did was get online, and this is ridiculous, but I looked up-

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is basically, I can tell, this is basically how Samantha Ettus gets a vacation for free. Okay. Go.

Samantha Ettus:
Exactly. Yes. Thank you for titling it. So basically I quickly got online and just said I was going to enter a contest where you could win a vacation for free. That was a total dead end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Or just enter the lottery, Samantha. Why not.

Samantha Ettus:
Right, exactly. If we're going down that path. Good stats there. And then I went on these home-swapping sites and saw so many exciting homes. Then I thought, well I can [inaudible 00:05:52] to this apartment. I went to the flower store. I basically had completely [inaudible 00:05:57] the apartment and photographed it by the time the day was over, and that night we had 15 to 20 offers of home swaps. There's all these websites where you can just house swap. You have to sign up and do all the things, and you barter, and people will immediately start making offers like, "Do you want my flat in Paris if I can have your flat in New York City?" I mean, that's literally what it was like. And it has to be compatible dates, but you type in your dates. I mean, these sites are really sophisticated at this point.

Samantha Ettus:
So we ended up swapping. By the next week we had our spring break plan. We used frequent flyer miles to go to Newport Beach, California. There was a family there of five. They had a brand new home. I looked it up on Google. I even Googled the owners to make sure they were legit people. She was like a VP at some company, and so I knew she was like a real person and I could find her on LinkedIn. She actually left her car, which was an SUV, at the airport for us, so that when we landed we had her car for the week. The only thing I had to do was feed her fish, which my little kids thought was so exciting, and we had a one week vacation in Newport Beach that was completely free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she let you drive her car?

Samantha Ettus:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Samantha Ettus:
And by the way, the one thing we did was we had a housekeeper come right before they came to our apartment and right after they left. So for us, you wouldn't have even noticed that they were there. It did not impact our apartment at all. We left their apartment in good shape and they left ours in great shape.

“I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.”

Samantha’s money lesson:

Samantha Ettus:
I think it was homeaway.com. But otherwise it was just the number one house-swapping site, whatever that is. You can just Google it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you done more, by the way, since then?

Samantha Ettus:
We haven't done more. And the other lesson I think is-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, why not?

Samantha Ettus:
Because we actually fortunately got into a position where we didn't need to do a house swap for a vacation. We found other ways to pay for the vacation. The other thing is we were in a New York city co-op, and like shh, but you're not really supposed to be house swapping in a New York City co-op. So it was a little bit tricky. But it's many years later. So I think I'm safe to share that with your listeners. But at the end of the day, it all worked out beautifully. I think in general we had a great situation. Their house was not as clean as I would have liked it to be. It wasn't as clean as a hotel would be. There were certain things that weren't perfect, but it was as close to good as you could get. I think the lesson is just you can always figure it out.

Samantha Ettus:
But the other lesson is to always keep that vacation money aside. Like figure out either a side hustle or figure out a way to put away money for a vacation. Because at least in my family, we are a two-income family. My husband and I are both working, and our vacations are so important to us because it's a lot of quality time with our kids. And so especially as our kids are getting older, we care so much about that time. And I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so glad you said that. It reminds me of the question that Warren Buffet got from a child recently asking about how to suppress his desire to, for example, go on vacation. I think they were talking about Disney, or Warren Buffet brought up the idea of Disney that you can say you want to save up for a seven-day trip to Disney, but then by the time you've saved up for seven days, your child is not the right age anymore or the age that you wanted to go. So maybe it's better to go for a two or three-day Disney trip. Or in your case, maybe it's better to go on a home swap and go on the vacation rather than just not, rather than waiting for the perfect time when you're completely financially able to afford your dream vacation. You have to live your life.

Samantha Ettus:
And the other thing about that it's the same thing as people saying, well, it's not the right time to have a baby, it's not the right time to fall in love, it's not... The bottom line is life doesn't work that way. And if you fall in love, go for it. If you want to have a kid, you'll figure it out. There's no perfect time for any of this. But I do think that time passes really fast with people you love. And so the more time you can spend having those experiences now it's really worth it. Don't delay happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't delay happiness. Excellent point.

“Time is more valuable than any other thing you have so use it wisely.”

Samantha's everyday money tip:

Samantha Ettus:
Yes. I think it is critical to think of your time as money. So for example, I mean this is just a little small example, but part of my team yesterday was ordering in lunch because we had a big conference call, and one of my employees who focuses on the budget was like, "Oh my gosh, it's so expensive." And someone said, "Well I'll just go get it." And I was like, "Hold on. Hold on one second. The amount of money we're saving for you to go get it, for you to be gone from the office to go get it for 45 minutes is actually not worth the $8 we're saving."

Samantha Ettus:
And so sometimes we forget that time is money. And that's just a micro example at work. But then at home it's like I will meet so many people who think it's better to not spend $40 on a housekeeper once a week or $50 on housekeeper once a week, instead of doing it themselves. But what could you be doing in that four hours? Could you be working on a side hustle, or that business idea you've always wanted to start? Like there are so many things you could do with that time. Or is it maybe worth it to spend that time doing something alone with your child?

Samantha Ettus:
I think it's pivotal to think of time as money. And pretty much time is more valuable than any other thing you have. So use it wisely.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Samantha talks about the cost of being out of the workforce, but with so many entrepreneurial ventures these days, how that is defined is changing. So you may work for yourself and not be in a traditional job and think you are good to go. And you are good to go to an extent, but you need to make sure that if you are not working for a corporation that gives you benefits, you are also paying yourself the benefits that you would have had. And specifically I want to focus on retirement savings. Many full-time jobs have some kind of plan, often a 401k with a match. If you do something yourself, for example, for the flexibility, something like Park Place Payments, make sure you calculate more than just your salary when you are figuring out how much you are really making, and make sure you set up a retirement plan for yourself and you fund it consistently.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Go on short vacations if you are on a budget. My family wanted to go to Iceland. It is crazy expensive. We went for four days. We had an amazing time. And if you can pay for part of it, by the way, with points and so on, do it. Don't save it all up for the most amazing round-the-world trip when you get old. Just use it now. Don't save it for when the time is perfect. Do it. I'm looking at my 12-year-old and wondering how he is 12 years old, and I am so happy that we have gone on the trips that we've gone on, and my only regret really is that we haven't done more adventures as a family traveling.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Samantha’s website - www.samanthaettus.com/

Park Place Payments Website - www.ParkPlacePayments.com

• To access your path to financial freedom, join the family of Account Executives- Receive $100 off of Park Place Academy when you enter code: financialgrownup

Follow Samantha!

• Instagram - @SamanthaEttus

• Facebook - @SamanthaEttus

• Twitter - @SamanthaEttus

• LinkedIn - @SamanthaEttus

Follow Park Place Payments!

• Instagram - @parkplacepayments

• Facebook - @parkplacepayments

• Twitter - @parkplacepower

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Tess’ website - Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

• This is a great piece on value investing from one of my favorite websites Investopedia!

• Tess' Invested program- The Invested Program

Follow Tess!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have.

“You can’t wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can’t wait around for your boss to give you that raise for you to be happy.”

Melissa’s Money Story:

I tried to shop this around. It's a vampire series, during the time ... Well, it was the tail end of Twilight, so no publisher wanted another vampire book. So I got a lot of no’s, in which case I was faced with this decision of, what is my dream worth? I want to get this done, so what am I willing to invest in myself? So I created a budget of how much I would spend on, pay a designer to create a cover, to publish it myself, to put it out into the world.

I self-published it, and yes, it turned out, in more ways than one, to be a great, great experience, something that I consider a success in my life. Something that I could check off my bucket list. And I still get the occasional check in the mail, even though I don't do all that much work publicizing it. I did make my money back and then some, and it was basically a great gift that I could give to myself, just in terms of learning that I could build a brand, make money for myself outside of a salary, and take those tools and make more money in another career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the journey. Did you write it first, and then you went to different publishers? How did it actually work? And how did the economics change between, if you had gotten a deal with a traditional publisher versus your own situation where you were self-publishing? What did that actually involve from a business and an economic standpoint, and a marketing standpoint?

Melissa Leong:
I think people don't realize that when you go and you create any product, you are entering into a business. You're your own business. You're your own publisher. I learned so much about being my own marketing department, my own publishing, and quality control, and PR, and that all requires resources, time and money. So yeah, I didn't have a publisher to push my books, but because I was doing everything myself, I had full control, and I had a huge percentage of the cut of sales. A traditional publisher might give you 7% off of the book selling price, but say you publish through Amazon, you get 70%, depending on what you price the book at. That was really rewarding.

Bobbi Rebell:
I realize we were talking about PR for the book. We didn't say what the book title was, and where people can get it. We should say that, right?

Melissa Leong:
Yes. It's still on Amazon. The first book is called What Kills Me, and the second is I Am Forever. It's a teen adventure novel. It's based on a vampire story.

“Mute the people on social media who make you feel bad about yourself”

Melissa’s Money Lesson:

The same lesson that I have when it comes to happiness. I think we sit around waiting for external factors to fulfill us, and that's not how life will serve you best. You can't wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can't wait around for your boss to give you that raise, for you to be happy. Happiness is for you to fulfill for yourself. It's the same thing with any of your goals or your dreams. They all seem lofty, and they all seem huge in the beginning, but you have to take that first step. You turn on the heat, and if you turn off the heat before the water boils, the water will never boil. You just have to keep going. You break everything down into some sort of small, bite-sized goal, like writing a 60,000-word book in six months. That was my goal, and I thought, "That is ridiculous. How am I going to do that?"

Well, I broke it down to the smallest thing. Every single day, five days a week, I have to write 500 words. There you go. If, by the end of the day, I haven't written 500 words of something for this novel, then I didn't feel good. I also had a partner who I could check in with, and say, "I met my goal today. Yay. Somebody keep me accountable." It was something very tangible to do in a very short period of time.

“I was faced with this decision. What is my dream worth? I want to get this done and so what am I willing to invest in myself”

Melissa’s Money Tip:

There is a study that shows that if you live beside somebody who's won the lottery, you are more apt to go bankrupt, because you're also spending on tangible, visible assets, even though you have not won any money. It is something that we beat ourselves up for, but it's something that you can control. You can put a tracker on your phone to see how much time you spend on social media. You can mute the people on social media who make you feel kind of jealous, who make you feel bad about yourself, who don't share your values. You can fill your feed with things that are uplifting, things that inspire you.

If you find yourself comparing yourself to other people, then choose what specific attributes that they have, that you admire. Don't admire somebody because they're rich. Admire them because they have some sort of tenacity, or some sort of perseverance quality that you think that you would like more of in your own life.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Inventory your stuff. We're not saying to do a Kon-Mari, reference to Marie Kondo, who is known for Tidying Up. Just know what you own, so you can make a decision about whether you want to own more. At least know what you have, so you don't make buying mistakes. So, for example, you don't buy something that you already have five of, you just didn't know where they were. And let's be honest, we've all done that. Make sure you know where your stuff is, so it's there for you when you need it.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Again from Melissa's book, Happy Go Money: Delete your credit card info from the browser on your computer, your phone, iPad, whatever you use to shop, so you have to manually enter it each time you want to buy something. What I love about this advice is that it's not about buying something, whether you need it or just want it. That's okay. It is about creating a speed bump so you have to slow down and think about the decision, and make it a thoughtful one, and it's okay to buy things.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Melissa's book Happy Go Money

• Melissa’s website - www.MelissaLeong.com

Follow Melissa!

• Instagram - @LisLeong

• LinkedIn - @MelissaWLeong

• Twitter - @LisLeong

• Facebook - @Melissa.W.Leong

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the things you can do to create your happiness. #Happiness #Author

Cate Luzio had no problem getting her boss to agree to give her a raise, but was caught off guard when asked how much she wanted. Cate shares exactly how she was able to come back with her number in just 24 hours, and how we can all get paid as much as possible. 

Cate's money story:

So I spent many years in corporate investment banking, but a large stint of it at JP Morgan. I was living in London, I was already at a managing director level, I was managing a big business within the corporate bank. I was, as women do, getting ready to prepare for that year end discussion and to ask for a raise. I go into my boss's office who was amazing and as I'm starting to already defend my accomplishments and list them out within 30 seconds of me speaking, he says, "Cate stop talking." I thought, "Oh, God, what did I do wrong?".

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I would be worried.

Cate Luzio:
I thought he was going to say, "You're out.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Cate Luzio:
And then he said, "What's your number?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Meaning?

Cate Luzio:
Meaning what's the number?

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you want?

Cate Luzio:
Exactly. Because, one, he didn't have time to waste, and I will tell you that. And two, he was like, "Let's get to the point. You're going to come in here and give me all your accomplishments, but I'm your manager, I know your accomplishments, I know what you've done for the business. So tell me how much more money you want to make." And I had never even thought of the number, which is embarrassing to one extent and then proves a point to the other around that women often are ready to just talk about, list out what they've done and how they've made a value to the company versus going in and asking for that number and then being prepared to defend why they've asked for that. And so, he said, "I give you 24 hours and you come back to me with a number.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, no pressure. So, what do you do with that 24 hours?

Cate Luzio:
I knew that my team, more broadly the leadership team, were all a bunch of men, and that was fine, they were great, but I couldn't ask them. I had come from a different business about a year prior to that within JP Morgan, but I knew I should be making a big jump. So, what did I do? I called a bunch of my guy friends at other banks. I just said, "Here's the situation, I just need to know what you make."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let me just ask you. Did you just randomly pick up the actual, I hate to say this, the actual phone, meaning you didn't text them, you didn't email them.

Cate Luzio:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were picking up the phone.

Cate Luzio:
Picked up the phone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And putting them on the spot.

Cate Luzio:
Putting them on the spot. And I had done that throughout my career. I think women don't realize this, and I think it's a lot in the banking sector, that when you get your bonus everyone's pounding their chest, like, "This is what I got." And guys do. They tell each other what they make. So they benchmark early on. And I had been doing that early on in my career. And then as I got more senior it was like, "Oh, well I'm getting more jobs and I'm getting these big promotions. This is great." And I had forgotten about I should be getting paid for what I do.

And so that's what I did. I spent that night calling and talking. And I remember I met with one of the guys that I knew at a big bank competitor, and hashing it out. And walked in the next day with the number.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just stop you there. What was your take on the numbers they were getting? What did you learn just from those numbers about where you are relative to them?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, much lower. I mean considerable amount lower. And again, remember, I think it didn't have to do with the company not wanting to pay me. It was commensurate with I had been at the firm for a while. You don't normally get huge bumps and raises unless you come from another firm. If you've made a jump that normally happens with your bonus or your variable compensation. So that was not an expectation that someone would walk in and get a very large raise. I knew that from the hundreds of people that I had managed.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't asked.

Cate Luzio:
And I had never asked. A part of me thinks, "Oh, I should've asked." And then part of me thinks, "I'd only been in that particular role for less than a year. So, was it warranted?" Yes, because not only of my performance, but my potential to continue to perform in that role, and bigger roles. And so, we hear it a lot, men are promoted on potential, women are promoted on performance. This wasn't even about promotion. This was about getting a fair compensation.

And so, when I did that benchmarking and talking to my male peers, I realized I was making a lot less. And so the next day I went in and he said, "Do you have your number?" I said, "Yeah, this is my number." He said, "It's not unreasonable. I don't know what we can do, but it's not unreasonable." To which I walked out thinking that's a huge win itself that I didn't come in and him say that's absolutely never going to happen, which, by the way, that happens quite a bit.

And so, three months later when you actually get your comp information and your bonus, they hand you a paper, and that has everything written. And so, I have no poker face. And so I immediately pull up the paper in front of my face, because I don't want him to see if I'm crying or if I'm smiling. Because if it was going to be a bad number I was going to be really upset. And the number was not the number that I asked for, it was even more.

So, as I'm putting the paper down, I'm smiling. What was even better was my boss was smiling even bigger than I was. And his exact words were, "You perform for us, we perform for you." He said, "This is probably never going to happen again in your career unless you leave and go to another firm, but you've demonstrated not only performance but potential and we value that."

“Don’t just go into any or these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Have that number going in.”

Cate’s money lesson:

So the lesson is don't just go into any of these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Right? So already have that number going in, because the worst thing that can happen is, one, they quiz you on why you should get that money or that promotion. Then you're ready, you've got your accomplishments, you've got what you've done for the business, you've got how you've demonstrated your value.

Cate Luzio:
But also what's the worst that can happen? They say no. And then you decide whether you can live with that no, you continue to fight for that compensation or that role or that promotion, or you go elsewhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever gotten a no, and how did you deal with it if you did?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, absolutely gotten a no. Listen, companies are under lots of constraints, they're under huge budgetary issues, so there are a lot of nos. And I've had to give a lot of nos to people too. I think the way I combated that or came back from that was, "Is this still the firm that I want to work for? Is their rationale correct? Do I get that? Do I look at the overall earnings of the company and where I fit into that?".

Cate Luzio:
So, when you work for a large publicly traded company that's in the Fortune 150, they have a lot of mouths to feed. But you still, at the end of the day, have to feel comfortable with the answer that they give. And, for me, I never left a company because they didn't pay me. So I looked at where else there were value they were adding in my life and my career. Was there a career path? Were they providing opportunities? And that was big for me around the delivering of those other opportunities, but also investing in me as an employee, making me a better asset to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that. Because sometimes people might work for, let's say, a startup or something and there just isn't the money.

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you have to look at other things.

Cate Luzio:
You have to look at other things and what drives you. If money is the only thing that drives you, then that's not going to be the place. But there's the role, there's are you managing a team? Are you part of other projects within the organization? Are you moving up quickly, as you mentioned, like in a startup or even in intrepreneurial environment within a big company where it's not just about the compensation? I do firmly believe you have to be fairly compensated, but I think there's a lot of factors that play into that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. Now you are well compensated. I should say, when you worked for other people you were well com... Now you work for yourself. When you worked for other people you were certainly well compensated. You could certainly do the shopping that you wanted to do and have the wardrobe that you want to have. But just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it all on clothing. And that brings us to a everyday money tip from you. Because this is really interesting. We talk a lot about saving money because you have to or to reach certain goals. Sometimes you're saving money because maybe spending it just doesn't make sense.

“I decided to self fund. I wanted to look at my members of the community of Luminary as my investors, versus maximizing value for an investor.”

Cate's everyday money tip:

As someone who did make quite a bit of money, and I actually reinvested a lot of that money into my company because I self funded, one of the things I knew is that my disposable income I needed to make it very small, because I was investing it into the company. And I was a big shopper. I needed retail therapy. So I actually now rent most of my clothes. I do it mostly with Rent the Runway, but it's exciting to see all of these other new players out there because it gives you so much more variety and diversity of your clothes. And for me it ends up really saving a lot of money for me. Also, I get the thrill of shopping online or even in person because they have stores, but without the guilt of spending all that money and then wasting it because I wear those clothes one time and then never wear them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
I second that. I actually also use Rent the Runway, and I find that to be very true. And I also think you can wear things. Sometimes fashions can be a little bit silly, like we had weird sleeves happening a year ago. And you can try that and you don't have to own that because we know some things are just not going to have staying power. Right?

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely. And some things you may think one day they flatter you and the next they don't. So, why keep it in your closet?

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Cate was able to get the intel on her number in just 24 hours, because she had spent years building strong relationships. To do a quick turnaround, you need to have everything in place, and to do that you need to be playing the long game when it comes to those relationships.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

One of my favorite parts of this interview is when Cate got really candid talking about how she deals with nos. First of all, if Cate Luzio is getting no’s, we can all feel a lot better about our setbacks. But she never talks about storming out or being confrontational. Instead, it's about taking a big picture look and being tuned in to why that no happened. It could be you and your performance, and if so, you need to be self-aware enough to own that and to take action.

Sometimes we all have so much ra-ra, go for it in our lives that we're not really that honest when maybe we aren't deserving of that. I'm not saying that's true all that often, but it could sometimes be true. And we need to be realistic about whether the assessment of us might have some good points. But it can also be things that are out of your control, having to do with where the business is financially. That's not really on you, but it's still your reality. Keep your cool, don't make brash emotional decisions.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Cate’s website - https://www.luminary-nyc.com/

• Cate’s Podcast - Come Sit At Our Table

Follow Cate!

• Instagram - @BeALuminary

• Facebook - @BeALuminary

• Twitter - @BeALuminary

• LinkedIn - @BeALuminary

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The secret to getting the most free money in the form of scholarships is in knowing the systems to use and the shortest, most efficient path to success. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson, creator of the Scholarship System joins Bobbi to talk specific strategies to get the most dollars to pay for your education or that of those you care about, without wasting time on dead ends.

Here are 3 tips for scholarship success

• Dedicate a certain day to work on scholarships

• Efficiency - apply all the way through the college and tweak your story that is working

• Don't make excuses - there is money out there for for all gpa's and low income - Still apply - read criteria

Episode Links:

• Free webinar

• Facebook

• The Scholarship System

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College can be the ultimate adulting experience- including taking on some bad money habits if students aren’t taught the right way to start building a financial life.

4 Things College Students Need To Learn About Money

• Debt can be dangerous (credit cards are not free money, student loans must be repaid)

• Cash flow is king (save money, start budgeting, know needs vs. wants)

• Run your own race (know priorities and allocate dollars accordingly)

• Money is a tool that can help or hurt you in reaching your goals

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Tara’s website - www.reisupllc.com

• Tara’s courses MONEY and WEALTH

  • Tara is offering 20% off of either course to our Financial Grownup community. Use the code GROWNUP20 at checkout

Follow Tara!

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/reisupllc/

• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/reisupllc/

• Twitter - https://twitter.com/reisupllc

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe5MrXlrFYJmvRzN9XDAeLA

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarafalcone/

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Bethany Bayless wanted to be a financial grownup when she was an 18-year college student. But when she couldn’t get a traditional college student job near campus, she got creative, earned the money she needed for expenses and found a way to give back to the community. Plus Bethany shares her favorite apps to make extra cash.

“There is a limit to how much you can cut back in your budget. You don’t have to limit your income. ”

Bethany's money story

Bethany Bayless:
When I graduated high school, I went off to college and as a grownup, I just turned 18, and I went to a college that was very small, and it was in a town of six other colleges. We were lots and lots of college students.

Bobbi Rebell:
What town?

Bethany Bayless:
It was Spokane, Washington. In Spokane, there's Gonzaga University, Eastern Washington, all these big universities. There were not a lot of jobs for college students there. It was very very saturated. I was very adamant that I wanted to pay my own rent.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are, by the way, one of five children.

Bethany Bayless:
That's correct. I am the only girl also, I just might add. I didn't want to ask my parents for money because I'm an adult, and that's what adults do is you make your own money. You pay your own rent and utilities, and food, and all of those things. What I did find was that I could go to a plasma bank and donate my blood plasma twice a week. That's exactly what I did. I made $240, and my rent was $240, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my god. Talk a using your god-given resources, Bethany.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly. I also think, isn't the house rent supposed to be 25% of your income? It was about 100, and so definitely a lesson learned there. I had to do some other little things here and there. This was before side hustle nation. This was before Uber, before Insta Cart, or something else that I could do to earn money. This was the side hustle app of the age, if you will.

Bethany Bayless:
I just learned very very quickly how much money was worth, and even a quarter was the world to me. It was a chunk right there. It was a great experience because I learned to be frugal. I learned to cut back, and I learned to know exactly what I needed. It was a time that I had zero once.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I used to give blood plasma a lot. My mother was sick at a point, and that was something that I was a regular there. One thing that I did learn was that they also feed you there, Bethany.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes. Cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
In addition to the money you could get meals, right?

Bethany Bayless:
Yeah. Basically the way the plasma works for people who are not familiar with this process, we will be talking about blood. Just give that disclaimer very quickly. What they do is they hook you up to a machine. They take out a certain amount.
Bobbi Rebell:
It takes a while.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a process. This isn't just donating blood. This is a different kind of thing.

Bethany Bayless:
Totally different. Because what they do is they put it in a ... It is a word for it. They put it in a machine where it separates it. They spin it really really fast, and it separates the platelets with the white blood cells, with the red blood cells and your hemoglobin, or whatever. Then they give you back your red blood cells.

Bobbi Rebell:
It takes about an hour sometimes. It depends on your blood pressure, believe it or not. Because I had low blood pressure, and sometimes I would not even qualify because you have to be at a certain level, which makes it a very special thing. People really should donate if you do qualify. It's an important thing to do, I should say. You are there for quite a while.

Bethany Bayless:
It is. I would be there sometimes ... Because you had to go in the waiting room first. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Bethany Bayless:
You have to wait-

Bobbi Rebell:
They set it up for you.

Bethany Bayless:
You have to go through this process. It was a chunk of time, but it was exactly what I needed. I went twice a week. I became friends with Rick, who was the guy who ever single week I would go to him. We became friends. He even had the bedside manner of House, very dry, sarcastic, hated the world, but he called me Sunshine. It was a great experience for me to really do it on my own, to do it myself. I thought, why not. It was the epitome of my desperation pretty much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, it is a giving thing to do, and I think it's wonderful that you did that, because even though that wasn't your primary motivation at the time, and I think it's important that people understand that, and that if they are eligible and can do that, it is great to donate plasma.

Bethany Bayless:
Absolutely. Also, I was a universal donor. My blood type is the rarest blood type. I'm AB negative, for anyone who wanted to know. We're finding out so much about each other in this conversation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much.

Bethany Bayless:
I'm AB negative. It is the universal plasma donor, so anyone could take my plasma.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's wonderful. You didn't mention, what was your favorite snack when you were done? Because they did feed you, so you got food and money.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes, food and money, and I really loved the little cookies. They have little chocolate chip cookies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yum. Do they have orange juice too?

Bethany Bayless:
Yes, and apple juice, I believe.

Bethany’s money lesson

Bethany Bayless:
The lesson is to do whatever it takes to get by, and to be a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Within what is legal and what is reasonable. We need to qualify that, Bethany-

Bethany Bayless:
Absolutely. Do anything that was legal. Should I say that again, Bobbi?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I don't know that people should, for example, donate a kidney, that kind of thing. I think that things like plasma, and things like that, are good, but not actual body parts.

Bethany Bayless:
A kidney or another controversial-

Bobbi Rebell:
We want to be clear.

Bethany Bayless:
... another controversial is donating things like eggs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Bethany Bayless:
That could have set me up for the entire year, but interesting.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a personal decision. Just be thoughtful about what body parts and things that you give from yourself.

“I could go to a plasma bank and donate my blood plasma twice a week. So that is exactly what I did. I made $240. And my rent was $240 exactly. ”

Bethany's everyday money tip

Bethany Bayless:
Like I said in my story, there was a time when I gave plasma as my last option, it was a time that these apps did not exist. It was not the age of the side hustle, but now I feel like financial grownups have so many options, because you can cut back. There's a limit to how much you can cut back in your budget. There's a limit to how you can limit your expenses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can only give plasma twice a week.

Bethany Bayless:
You can only give plasma twice a week, but the other thing is that you don't have to limit your income. That is something that there's no limit to the amount of money that you can make. One of the things that you can do is there are a list of apps, things that we've talked about, like Uber or AirBnb, or things like that. Those are already very well known. Other things like Insta Cart, maybe you want to go grocery shopping for people, and you can do it in your spare time. You can pick up times where you just go grocery shopping. It's a great tool to use. I love getting my groceries delivered. If you want to shop [crosstalk 00:10:29].

Bobbi Rebell:
But you can also be the person delivering the groceries.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
We want to be clear. For all of these, you're not the person getting in the Uber. You're the one driving the Uber.

Bethany Bayless:
That's absolutely right.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's where the income comes.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly. We have Insta Cart. We have Etsy. Maybe it's time to make things online. There's also some other really great ones, like Rover. It's a dog-walking app. If you want to go hang out with dogs for a day, why don't you download Rover, and you're able to go. You can even teach your kids about being responsible, and take them along with you now that you're a financial grownup, if you have children. Those are some of my favorite apps that you can use.

Episode Links:

Bethany’s websites TheMoneyMillhouse.com and BethanyBayless.org

Apps we mentioned in the episode:

• Uber

• Aribnb

• Instacart

• Etsy

• Rover

Follow Bethany!

• Instagram - @BethanyBayless

• Facebook - @BethanyGraceK

• Twitter - @BethanyBayless

• LinkedIn - @BethanyGrace

Follow The Money Millhouse!

• Instagram - @TheMoneyMillhouse

• Facebook - @TheMoneyMillhouse

• Pinterest - @TheMoneyMillhouse
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.