Erin Lowry, author of Broke Millennial Takes on Investing thought her new hubby was all set when he assured her he had bought life insurance to protect his parents obligation to his student debt. But a chance discovery revealed the insurance was not what either of them thought he had purchased. 

In Erin's money story you will learn:

• Erin is a newlywed - Congrats again Erin!!

• Her husband had a huge amount of student debt that his parents had co-signed for

• She suggested that he get life insurance so that, in the unfortunate event that he were to lose his life, the debt wouldn't pass to his parents

• She found out that the life insurance he got was Whole Life insurance instead of Term Life insurance

• Why Whole Life Insurance wasn't the best for him

• The difference between Whole Life Insurance and Term Life Insurance

In Erin’s money lesson you will learn:

• Fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can’t do anything that is harmful to you.

• Her husband was sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him

In Erin's everyday money tip you will learn:

• When she receives change back from a purchase, she saves the $5 bills. In 2018 she saved over $1000 to use towards her honeymoon

In My Take you will learn:

• There’s a lot of financial jargon out there. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don’t understand.

• I’ve been talking a lot recently about what I call the Family Ecosystem. You are not just responsible for yourself, even if you are single.

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Erin Lowry:
My editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy." And I thought, "You know what? You're right." Then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. Have you ever had a conversation with someone that in your mind was totally straight forward? The conversation was totally straight forward with no room for error or misunderstanding, super clear and clear to them, they said they got it, but there was one deal once you didn't realize you had been silent to and they didn't know to ask about and that caused things to go very wrong? Well, it happened to newlywed author, Erin Lowry, and it serves as a real warning to all of us because it can happen to a money expert and her new husband.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, by the way, and thanks for joining us, new listeners, so glad you have found us. DM me if you have a sec, bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi Rebell on Twitter and let me know how you discovered the show and what you would like to hear. We do this for you. Let's get to our guest. Her new book is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, which after you hear more about it will definitely be something you want to pick up. Here is Erin Lowry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erin Lowry, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erin Lowry:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited. I've been waiting to have you on my show for over a year and we said we're going to wait and hold off until your next book comes out and it's happening. It is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing and people should know this. This is a followup to your first book, Broke Millennial, and there's actually going to be a third one, which is pretty unheard of to do like a three ... Do we call it a hat trick to get a three book deal? That's pretty amazing. So congratulations on all.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, but first we're going to do your money story. You're a newlywed. Congratulations on your wedding and that comes with merging finances and you start to learn about the love of your life in different ways. In this case you learned that your now husband did the right thing, but made the wrong choice in a big financial decision and it just shows how complicated things are. It had to do with student loans and insurance. Tell us the story.

Erin Lowry:
It also shows that when you give somebody advice they take it sometimes, but don't take it in the way that you intended, which was a big part of what happened here. And for context, my husband, whom I call Peach, he has student loans. When this whole thing went down, first of all, it was not an insignificant amount. I don't really share his number, but it was a hefty chunk of change.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're talking about student debt?

Erin Lowry:
Student loan debt. Yep. And a big chunk of those student loans were private student loans that his parents had cosigned on, which meant that if something happened to him, his parents would still be responsible for paying off those loans and by something happening, I mean, if he died, and the debt was still there. His parents would still be required to pay off that student loan debt. Now, I want to say right now, some companies have changed their policies and started to discharging debt and most federal student loans can be discharged in death, but not necessarily the case with private.

Erin Lowry:
After we have this conversation, this was a few years before we got married, I said, "I think it would be prudent for you to get a life insurance policy on yourself because seriously having forbid something happen, your parents are still on the hook for a lot of money and that could really impact their ability to retire. So you should have a life insurance policy that has them as the beneficiaries."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And the good news is he took your advice.

Erin Lowry:
He did. And I just kind of said it. I wasn't even necessarily like, "Go do this right now." He went and got a life insurance policy and a few months later I was actually writing an article on life insurance and I interviewed him for it. He told me how much he was paying every month and what the payout would be. And I wrote the article up and my editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy."

Erin Lowry:
I thought, "You know what? You're right." And then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy." So I go back and I went, "Hey babe, what kind of life insurance policy did you get?"

Bobbi Rebell:
"Hey babe, let's talk life insurance tonight?"

Erin Lowry:
So sexy. It's such a great topic. He had indeed gotten a whole life insurance policy and I tried not to get any sort of aggressive about it. He was like, "Why?"

Bobbi Rebell:
He's like, "Aren't you proud of me? I went out and got life insurance just like you said," and he had actually talked to somebody. He didn't even go out blindly and just kind of buy it ... I don't even know if you can literally just buy it on the web. There's obviously a step that you have to take. But he did proactively talk to somebody about it and get "advice" and I put advice in quotation marks.

Erin Lowry:
And that was where the problem was, is the person that he talked to was essentially pitching him a product, and listen, the pitch on whole life insurance is great. It does sound really good, I get it. But on the backend, this salesperson, and I'm going to call them a salesperson also probably got a commission for signing him up for whole life insurance. This is a fiduciary versus suitability conversation. Fiduciary meaning it's in your best interest. Suitability, just meaning it's suitable for you. Whole life is suitable for him, but it certainly wasn't the best product for him, what his needs were and what his age was.

Erin Lowry:
Even what it is now, it doesn't make sense for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Could you explain a little bit about why? Why was whole life insurance not right for him and how is that different from term life, which is what was appropriate for him.

Erin Lowry:
Without getting into the weeds on technicalities, a big part of it really is one, the monthly premium that you're paying on a whole life insurance policy is usually significantly more expensive than term. Significant can be kind of a subjective term, but he was at the time in his mid 20s trying to pay off student loans, living in New York City and he's a public school teacher. So $25.50 a month in his budget does make a really big difference.

Erin Lowry:
That was thing one and two term life insurance is usually much lower monthly payments, typically a higher payout. It's just for a shorter period of time and it's a use it or lose it policy. So if you stay alive, which "Yay! You stay alive," and don't use it, the policy eventually just expires. So some people don't like this feeling of, "Well, I never see a return on my money," but that's true. Really most insurances that we pay for, if you have auto insurance and never get in a car accident, yay, you didn't get in a car accident, but also what were you paying for? You we're just paying for the protection.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so term life does not have an investment component and therefore when the term is over, if you do not use it, which we hope we don't use it, there is nothing left. There's no benefit at all. You have just spent the money and the money that you spent on those premiums is gone, but it is less money.

Erin Lowry:
It's less money. You can be putting the money that you're not spending towards other financial goals and or investments. The other thing you've got to think about is does this particular product make the most sense for you? Whole life insurance does make sense for some people. It didn't make sense for him at the time. Maybe way down the line it will make more sense, but right now all he needed was a basic simple term life insurance policy.

Bobbi Rebell:
What finally happened?

Erin Lowry:
He called the folks back up that had sold him the whole life insurance policy and said, "Hey, this isn't actually what I wanted. I want a term policy." The woman tried to talk him into staying with the whole, he was adamant-

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Oh, I hate that.

Erin Lowry:
Yep. So there was a back and forth, but he was adamant about switching to term. He switched to term, has a really basic policy. Now that we're married, actually we have to have a whole other conversation about life insurance as well in our own estate planning, but he still does have that policy because those student loans still do exist. We're working on getting rid of them and his parents are still the beneficiary because again, if something happened to him, even though he and I are married, if something happens to him, his parents would still be on the hook for those particular student loans. They didn't transfer it to me in our marriage.

Bobbi Rebell:
And he was able to get out of the whole life insurance policy? He wasn't locked in?

Erin Lowry:
He wasn't locked in. He was able to switch.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, it's the same company actually. He didn't switch companies, but he did completely switch policies.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? It sounds like they really need to understand fiduciary versus a salesperson.

Erin Lowry:
The big thing is understanding fiduciary versus suitability. And for me, I also use this story in my book to talk about sniffing out a scam. I don't want to say he was necessarily scammed in the way that we traditionally think, especially when we think about investing, but he was definitely sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him. And I want you to consider that anytime you're working with any sort of professional, because they don't necessarily have your ultimate best interest in mind, they might also have their bank account in mind and you need to know how that person is getting paid.

Erin Lowry:
For instance, if you're a financial adviser gets paid on commission, you need to understand how that's going to be impacting your overall portfolio. What products are they putting in there that they get a kickback for? Now, I'm not saying everybody that takes commission is working in any sort of nefarious ways, but I am saying you need to make sure you understand exactly what that means for you and your investments. And again, fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can't do anything that's harmful to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your everyday money tip. It's something you really do and it has made a big difference in your life.

Erin Lowry:
Yes, and this is going to sound so silly to people, but I like to save $5 bills, and I know a lot of people don't use cash anymore. I still do like to use cash and every single time I get a $5 bill back when I pay for something in cash, I put it inside in a little jar and just let that money accumulate. And then eventually I put it all in my bank account. And in 2018, I saved over a thousand dollars to put towards my honeymoon fund account just with this tiny little trick.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. So let's just talk briefly about your latest book, number two, out of your three book series, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing. Tell us more about what sets this apart and the kind of advice that people could expect from the book?

Erin Lowry:
This is a true beginners guide to investing and that's the way I like to position it. Also, I'm not an investing expert. What I like to consider myself in this book is a translator. So I went out and interviewed a bunch of very, very smart, very experienced people and was able to distill this into a more digestible package. But the reason I wrote the book is because, listen, there are great investing books out there, but a lot of them do kind of operate under the assumption that you have some base level knowledge when it comes to investing. And frankly, most of us don't when we're just getting started.

Erin Lowry:
So I wanted to write a book that bridged the gap. It assumes that you have no background in investing, no base level knowledge and if you do, great, there's still content for you, but you don't need to know what asset allocation or index funds are or time horizon means or anything like that in order to pick up my book. It also really talks a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to kind of get control over that because a lot of us do fear and are intimidated by the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love the fact that you actually have a ton of just plain definitions in the book.

Erin Lowry:
Yes. There's a whole chapter about having this sort of baseline understanding of terminology and I even kind of apologize and the beginning of, "Hey, I know this is about to get real technical bear with me," but it's important that you understand the language because these are the terms you're going to hear when you're out there as an investor and you want to make sure you know what people are talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And never be afraid to ask a question that you "think is dumb," because there've been times I've asked questions that I'm embarrassed to ask and you know what? The person I'm asking doesn't actually know the answer. They're kind of faking their way through it, so don't fake it and pretend you understand something when you don't. It's okay. Ask the questions or look it up in Erin's book. There you go.

Erin Lowry:
That was actually one of my favorite parts of writing this book is learning terms and like, "Oh, that's what a basis [inaudible 00:12:22] is." It really wasn't helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people gloss over those things and don't actually know what they mean. You would be surprised. Just say. Great. Give us all your socials and where people can find out more about the book and you.

Erin Lowry:
I am on Instagram @brokemillennialblog, on Twitter @BrokeMillennial, Facebook the same. You can find a lot of information about me on my website, brokemillennial.com, and both my first and second books are available wherever books are sold. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Powell's, Indie books, hopefully your local bookstore and I always like to make a plug for your local library and if it's not there, please request it and get it on the shelf.

Bobbi Rebell:
And make sure everyone follow her on Instagram. She does great AMA, so that's one of my favorite parts of all of your social. So thank you Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. There's a lot of financial jargon out there. Erin talks about it a lot. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don't understand. I get it. It can be embarrassing to ask someone something you think you should know, but by the way, a lot of times those people are nodding along pretending they fully get it and they may not or they may think they get it and they don't really know the questions to ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
As was the case with Erin's husband where he didn't know to ask exactly what kind of life insurance because he didn't know and he certainly wasn't educated by the salesperson what to ask and what the nuance differences are between different kinds of life insurance. So Erin has a lot of definitions in her book, but you can also check out websites for example, I like a website called Investopedia. It breaks down exactly what things really mean. Takes away the jargon.

Bobbi Rebell:
As I often say, the IRS website. Yes, the irs.gov website is also great at clarifying how certain things work. You forget about this, but a lot of the savings vehicles and retirement plans that we have are named after their tax code, like the 401k or the 529. Those numbers, that's the meaning of the numbers. They're actually part of the tax code. I know it's kind of crazy, but that's our system.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. I've been talking a lot recently about what I call, the family ecosystem. You're not just responsible for yourself if you're going to be a financial grownup. Even if you're single, you likely have financial ties to members of your family you may not even realize. For example, you may be with somebody who's your partner. They may have ties that both of you aren't fully aware of in terms of top of mind. If you really think about it, you are and that's what I'm asking you to do, but it may not be the first thing you think of.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think of yourself as just single. It could be something like in the case of Erin's new husband, co-signing on debt of some sorts, student debt in that case. Maybe it's a car loan or even a mortgage or maybe you and your siblings could find yourselves in the future caring for parents or another member of the older generation and you have financial responsibilities. You may need to pick up the pieces of something that they did not do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe they didn't save enough for retirement. This could be something that you get involved with. Maybe you'll inherit something with your siblings. The point is make sure that you know and that you talk about it with anyone that's a stakeholder. Erin didn't cosign her husband's student debt, but she is definitely a stake holder. Thanks so much for spending this time with us. Please subscribe. We have an amazing spring lineup of guests you don't want to miss, and we are also doing some listener requested topics on the Financial Grownup guide series that we roll out on the weekends. So feel free to send in suggestions on the socials.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can DM me at Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell and our email is hello@financialgrownup.com. Big thanks to Broke Millennial, Erin Lowry, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The bosses behind design website "Of a Kind", the podcast “A Few Things” and the new book “Work Wife” share their experience finally being offered the investor funding they fought for-  and then walking away from the deal. Plus a preview of their new book “Work Wives".

In Erica and Claire's money story you will learn:

• They started trying to raise money when they started their retail business in 2010

• Their business, Of A Kind, is an e-commerce site that is focused primarily fashion and design

• How they were finally able to get some money In 2013 for their business

• Why Claire and Erica didn't like the terms of the agreement.

• How they finally decided that the money wasn't what they wanted after all

In Erica and Claire’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's so important to listen to your gut. If it's something you thought you wanted but then decided it wasn't, it's okay to change your mind and walk away

• Why what they thought they wanted would only bring new and different problems

In Erica and Claire's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why Erica feels strongly about having multiple accounts that have money automatically being put into each account

• When Claire and her husband combined finances they both started taking the same percentage of their paychecks to contribute to shared account.

In My Take you will learn:

• How the benefits of friendships in business can also be platonic relationships between the opposite sex

• Why it's important to read all the paperwork like Erica and Claire did

Episode Links:

Erica and Claire's book Work Wife

Check out Erica and Claire's website -

www.OfAKinda.com

Follow Erica and Claire!

• Instagram - @OfAKind

• LinkedIn - @OfAKind

• Pinterest - @OfAKind

• Twitter - @OfAKind

• Facebook - @OfAKind

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Claire Mazur:
For so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money, and I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us.

Erica Cerulo:
We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office I think up to two full days a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So when someone offers you the money, maybe for a business you've been building, that you've been asking for, begging for, searching for, for so long, and you finally get that offer. Well, it's a pretty good bet you'll say, "Thank you." And cash that check. But what if you have a bad gut feeling? What if there are things in the terms that you didn't really think would bother you, but then they really do? Nothing's ever free, and an investor money always comes with some strings. It's just a question of how tied up you're willing to be in those strings. And like many big life decisions, we often don't know until we are there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. New listeners, thank you for checking out the podcast. We bring you high achievers who share money stories that had big impacts on their lives, along with the lessons that they have learned, so we all get to benefit from their experiences. Today we are doing something extra special. We have two guests, Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You may already know their design website Of a Kind and their podcast A Few Things, and most recently their best selling, newly released book Work Wife, appropriately titled because these best friends are just that. And that friendship proved priceless when they had to make a key decision for their business in its startup time in search of cash. Here are Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcasts.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Said in unison.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect.

Erica Cerulo:
That's very us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very you. You guys are work wives. I'm gonna ask you to each say hi and say your names so everybody knows which voice is which of you.

Claire Mazur:
This is Claire Mazur, and I hope that this introduction helps people distinguish us because we're told all the time that our voices sound exactly alike.

Erica Cerulo:
At least on a podcast. This is Erica Cerulo.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. You guys are on in part to talk about, we have a great money story and all those good things, but congratulations on your latest together project appropriately titled Work Wife, and I should tell everyone this comes after other things which include a business called Of A Kind, which you still control, we can talk about how that's become a bigger venture, a podcast called A Few Things which I am a new and very dedicated fan of, and a newsletter called 10 things. So there's a lot going on guys.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. We have been at this not for over nine years, and the business has been around for eight years and some change, and we just keep adding on new projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys met in college, I should said?

Erica Cerulo:
Yes. It was when I was 19 and Claire was 18. So still teenagers.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys have a long history together, and that helps you deal with what we're gonna talk about as your money story, which was kind of a tough situation as young business women. Tell us your money story.

Claire Mazur:
We were a couple of years into the business, we had been trying to raise money, kind of the entire life of the business at that point. We started the business in 2010, which was a time of very frothy VC funding. It seemed like left, right and center, everybody was raising a million dollars or more very easily, and we had been struggling to do that, I think in part because we had a more traditional retail business than a lot of the [crosstalk 00:04:12].

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain what Of A Kind is actually for people that don't know.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah, absolutely. So Of A Kind is an e-commerce site. We are primarily fashion and design, so we sell clothes, accessories, jewelry, also personal care and paper goods from emerging designers, primarily in the United States. So it's really based on discovery and Erica and my love of discovering new designers and new makers, and telling the story behind the pieces. So we have a very party content arm to the business and we have since day one always told the story of all of the makers whose pieces are on the site.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So you guys go to raise money and the good news is there is a lot of money out there.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah.

Erica Cerulo:
And the bad news is we were really bad at raising it.

Claire Mazur:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did have opportunity to get funded.

Erica Cerulo:
We did. In about 2012 or 2013 we had gone out to investors and had conversations with a few angel investors who were very enthusiastic about our business and made us an, put a deal sheet in front of us, a term sheet in front of us, and what we were aiming for this whole time, right? To raise funding, to be able to grow the business more aggressively, and to pursue marketing and other growth opportunities that we hadn't been able to pursue to date because we were really scrappy and cash strapped.

Erica Cerulo:
In looking at their term sheet and in thinking about what this would mean for the business, we came to this realization that we didn't want the terms. We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office at least one full day a week, I think up to two full days a week, and while we valued their input, we didn't want them to be involved in the business in that capacity.

Erica Cerulo:
So we were sort of in this place where we were like, well what do we do here? This is what we thought we wanted, but here we are and it's not what we want.

Claire Mazur:
It took a minute for us to really get there because for so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money. And I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us. And really, the options at that point were to walk away, to try to find money from somebody else, or to take the leap and say, okay, we're gonna take the money and hope it goes well. And what we realized, and what we were really fortunate to be able to do at that point was we had just started to be cash flow positive. So we were able to say no to them because we realized, okay, if we were cash flow positive last month we know we can do it again next month, and we know we can continue to just sort of put money back into the business. And we were able to pull together a little bit of friends and family funding to close the delta, because obviously we weren't making as much money as these investors were offering us. But it felt like absolutely the right decision at the time.

Claire Mazur:
It was a while ago, but I can't even remember how much discussion went into it. I think we really knew at the end of the day, especially when we got that report from our accountants that showed us how much money we were making we were like, okay, this is the right decision.

Erica Cerulo:
I also, I remember having the conversation, we were in South by Southwest, we were sitting in the Airbnb that we were renting, and basically coming to the realization that this wasn't money that we wanted, and that we would find another way, and that the thing that would impact the business at that point most, more than having those significantly bigger marketing budget or more than having the other things that we really wanted to be able to spend this money on was another head count and being able to at higher, I think at this point it woulda been our second employee so it woulda been Claire and I, we had a third employee, and this would be our sort of fourth person on the team. And that, that would allow Claire and I to be able to focus more on some of the bigger picture things that we weren't really able to think about at that point. And that, that could be the difference in the future of the company maybe more than the money would.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was the conversation like? Did you just say, we're not gonna do this and walk away? Or was there an attempt to negotiate?

Erica Cerulo:
We had definitely attempted to negotiate with them for sure. And those were all sort of conversations leading up to this point. But this was just sort of where they had firmly come down and said, no, this is what it would need to be for us to be involved. And so it was sort of like the final offering that we were walking away from.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you guys feel? What was your private conversation like at this point?

Claire Mazur:
I think we felt really triumphant in a way. It was honestly one of the best feelings we'd had about the business up to that point because it wasn't just that we had done what we knew was the right thing and was frankly kind of the hard thing, but we were able to do it because we had some success in the business. And that empowerment was really thrilling for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that story?

Claire Mazur:
There are several, but I think the one for me is to listen to your gut. And to know that just because something is something you thought you wanted, if it doesn't feel right it's probably not right.

Erica Cerulo:
It demonstrated to us that with money there come trade offs. We thought this was the answer to our questions and the answer to our problems and we realized that actually this would introduce new and different problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. It is complicated. And people think that something, that's kind of a metaphor for bigger statement that people do think that money is going to be the answer to so many things in life. And it's really not. It sometimes just leads to different challenges.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of challenges, let's give everyone solutions. Let's talk about everyday money tips.

Erica Cerulo:
Well, basically my money solution is that feel strongly about having multiple different accounts that I'm automatically putting a percentage of each paycheck into. So I know that one account is for savings, and I don't touch it. And a percentage of my income just gets dropped there. Another account is for day to day necessities like rent and groceries and those things that are sort of fixed costs and that I can budget toward. And the third is sort of a slush fund and that's where dinners out and shoes or whatever else come from. And I think it's nice for me to know that, that particular account is just sort of a play fund. It is for me to do with what I do. And so I don't set a firm budget around dining out or entertainment or any of those things, but I know that I have this fixed amount of money to play with for all of those things combined.

Bobbi Rebell:
So broader categories. And Claire, sticking to the theme of bank accounts, you also have an everyday money tip.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. So when it came time for my husband and I to combine finances we used something that I know I learned from somebody else, and I think it might have been from Suze Orman, but we basically, no matter how much either of us is making, and obviously that number changes and has changed over the years, we both take the same percentage of our paycheck and contribute it to a shared amount. And then whatever's remaining we each have in our individual accounts. And we both have really different spending habits and that has made our lives so much easier when it comes to dealing with shared expenses and not shared expenses. So I never worry about if he's going to judge me for buying clothes or expensive tickets somewhere or whatever or a fancy gift for a friend of mine whose not his friend, he doesn't have to worry about it, he knows it's coming from my private account.

Claire Mazur:
And when it comes to our shared account it's so much easier to have these conversations about how and what we're spending on because we know that these are shared expenses and we're making those decisions together. And I never have to worry about if he's spending his money in a way that I approve of or don't approve of. And I think that has eliminated so much potential tension from our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it's about communicating when you need to and also giving yourselves permission not to communicate on some things because you don't need to and that can be a relief as well. You guys communicate pretty well as work wives so much so that you've written a book. And this is becoming a whole buzz word in the community these days. I don't think we realize how many big companies have been led by these female power house teams. Tell us a little bit more.

Claire Mazur:
Erica and I had been business partners for nine years now and friends for 17 years?

Erica Cerulo:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Claire Mazur:
And had always known that we were very proud of our partnership and had always taken that really seriously. In fact, when we were fundraising we would often hear from investors, they would say, I think I'm gonna pass, it's not right for me, but I gotta tell you, I'm really impressed by your partnership. And I remember that really sticking with us and being like, oh, I think what we have here is unique. And it is unique, but what we realized in looking around was that there are a ton of other women doing this. And there are a ton of women who are really benefiting from this sort of basic tenants of female friendship like emotional intimacy and vulnerability and transparency in a business environment. So what we did for the book is we interviewed 14 other duos and trios of women about what their partnerships look like and what the friendships underneath those partnerships look like.

Claire Mazur:
And what we came with was this really strong belief in the power of female friendship to drive successful businesses and this understanding that when you value female friendship in the workplace you start to see other characteristics contributing to corporate culture that weren't there before. So these ideas of vulnerability in the workplace become a much bigger facet, and that can really change corporate culture ultimately.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think it's important to understand a lot of these relationships did not start on day one. Some did, but most did not start on day one with, let's just meet as strangers and start a business. There's usually a history and a bond before that. And a lot of work that goes into preparing to go into business together. I mean, one of the tips that you give that I think makes so much sense is to do something like take a trip together and see how you react when something doesn't go as planned. Because these are complicated relationships. 'Cause they're real friendships but they're real businesses.

Erica Cerulo:
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's a piece of advice that Haley [Barna 00:13:54] who is one of the founders of BirchBox and is now a venture capitalist gave for potential business partners or potential work wives who don't have that previous experience of working together, who maybe were friends first and haven't been in an office together and aren't 100% sure of how the other interacts in super stressful situations in a work environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm gonna give you the last word Claire.

Claire Mazur:
We are so excited about the book and we hope that it spreads the idea of friendship in the workplace, not just for women but for men too. We think it's really important to think about the way that personal and the professional mesh with each other in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's wrap it up with you can just tell us where we can out more about you guys, your book Work Wife, your business Of a Kind, your podcast A Few Things, your newsletter Ten Things, and everything else. I feel like you guys have a lot more in your back pocket that we're gonna be hearing from you soon.

Erica Cerulo:
You can find it on our website ofakind.com where you can also buy the book Work Wife or you can buy it any place books are sold. You can find us on Instagram, @ofakind, and the book, @workwifehq and yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica Cerulo, Claire Mazur, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much Bobbi, have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about work besties. Financial Grownup tip number one, Erica and Claire's book is focused on female friendship and business partnership and has a lot of specifics that are unique to women, combining business and friendship that both women and men can learn a lot from. But I also wanna add that while the relationships are absolutely different there can also be a lot of value in work husbands or work wife relationships of opposite sexes. And just to confirm, we are talking platonic here. That can also be really supportive at work. Add to that what I would call your work squad which can mean a group of work friends that can be supportive and be true friends, business partners, and industry allies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, read all that paperwork. It's boring but you have to do it. Erica and Claire did it. They thought they had the deal they really wanted. But then, when they took the time, and thankfully they did, to read all the terms, not just how much money they were getting, read past the headline my friends, they made an unexpected decision. Make sure you pay attention and consider all the information, not just the ones with the dollar signs in front of them. And this goes of course for any binding contract.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a work wife? A work bestie? Have you ever turned down something that you thought you wanted and really fought for? I wanna talk about, I wanna hear about your experiences. Follow me and DM me on all the socials, Instagram, bobbirebell1, Twitter, bobbirebell, or drop us an email at hello@financialgrownup.com, and tell me what you thought about this episode. And tell me about your experiences. And please, if you're not already subscribed, do so, we have some incredible guests lined up for spring, and I can't wait to share them with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely pick up Work Wife, it will not disappoint, and check out Of a Kind. So much cool stuff there. Big thanks to Erica and Claire for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. 

In Nathan's money story you will learn:

• Why it's so important to let children make decisions

• Why he feels like his parents helped to make him an entrepreneur

• Why he feels like his success is due to his parents never telling him no (and when they did instead)

• What he learned at the age of 5 by being given the option between Pizza Hut for dinner or a sleep over with friends

In Nathan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels like the idea of only focusing on one thing isn't practical

In Nathan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How you can use an app to book a hotel room for just a few hours during a day trip rather than spending money for an entire night

In My Take you will learn:

• Take 5 minutes each day this week and create a system for something that happens regularly

• By letting your children make choices- you empower them

Episode Links:

• Nathan's book How to be a Capitalist Without Any Capital

• Nathan's podcast The Top Entrepreneurs in Money, Marketing, Business and Life

• Recharge app for booking a stay for just a few hours

Check out Nathan's website -

www.NathanLatka.com

Follow Nathan!

• Instagram - @NathanLatka

• Twitter - @NathanLatka

• Facebook - @NathanWLatka

• LinkedIn - @NathanLatka

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you will learn a very important tip on how you can help to raise a successful child. #RaisingChildren #SuccessTips #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Nathan Latka:
You have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitors have already paid to learn, right, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it. Then you add your own twist at the end, and that's when people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, specially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Controversial advice from our guest millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author, Nathan Latka. He is everywhere, so if you haven't heard of him yet, that's probably gonna change pretty fast. He is high energy and will get you motivated to make more money after listening to him. This guy is all about systems and strategies. Welcome all, so glad to have you here. As our returning listeners know, we talk to high achievers about key money related events in their life that played a role in growing up to be financial grownups. Lessons learned and simple everyday money tips you can use right away to make your life richer, all in around 15 minutes. Big treat today. Nathan Latka founded his first company at the ripe old age of 19 with just 119 dollars in the bank. He now considers himself retired, but I would question that given how much this now 29 year old has on his plate between his podcast, his new bestselling book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital, a TV show in development with CNBC that he's gonna tell us about, and oh, so much more, here is Nathan Latka.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Nathan Latka, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi, thank you for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited because I have in my hand an early copy, and it may be out by the time this happens, of your new book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. And let me tell you, I think you are the Tim Ferriss of your generation, that is a huge compliment because I'm a massive Tim Ferriss fan. So congratulations on the book.

Nathan Latka:
Well, we'll see what happens. The publisher, which is the biggest I think in the world, Random House, they go, "Nathan, we don't know if we like this book because it's not timeless. These strategies, you know, we can't sell a thousand of this book a decade from now." I'm going, "Yeah, it's urgent." The first person who purchases will have the biggest advantage because these things will not work five, 10 years from now. And this is true about life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very specific and a lot of the tools and methods that you talk about, and will even drop some names of some websites that I was not really aware of, are really awesome, some apps I should say. So for example, we were referencing the four hour work week, so it is very much of the moment, but I want to take a step back in time Nathan, to a story that you mentioned briefly in your book, but we are going to expand on, and it is your money story. So people know that I am a huge Cheesecake Factory fan, you were a fan of Pizza Hut. So we're gonna talk about Pizza Hut for your story. Go for it.

Nathan Latka:
I remember I was like five years old, we were in this blue mini van, my mom loved it, and we were driving home and I go, "Mom, dad, can we go to pizza tonight for dinner?" Which was like a treat for me, and I also had a sleep over coming up, and yeah, I think that weekend, where there was four or five playmates I had coming over, and both of these things obviously cost money. They're dinner or I had my friends over, my parents have to pay to feed all of them, and then take them home in the morning and clean up messes. So my mom basically wanted to say no to pizza hut or no to the sleepover, and so she gave me, instead of saying no to either, she just gave me a choice and said, "Nathan, you know you can either choose, we can either choose to do pizza tonight or do the sleepover, but we can't do both. Right, 'cause they both cost money." And I thought for a second in the backseat and then said back, "Mom, can I choose to get into my piggy bank and take us pizza out tonight?" And they laughed after that realizing what I was doing, and ultimately both decided to take us out to dinner and I still did the sleepover, but the lesson there is clear, which is, give your kids decisions, not answers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you as a child wanted to find a solution, which in this case, and maybe you would not say this as an adult, was to tap your savings. Maybe as an adult you would let's say, try to up your income.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, or all kinds of things, right? I mean, the trick is there, is you're not giving your children the answer, you're setting up a decision and you're teaching them to build that decision making muscle. This is very rare in today's world, in my opinion.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell we, what is the takeaway for our audience there looking back? What did you learn and how does it apply to your life now?

Nathan Latka:
Well look, I mean, today I'm very different than I was when I was five years old, right? I mean, I have many, many different things going on, and so one of the things I talk about is, and I live this out every day is, there's a lot of people, in college for example, you're forced to essentially pick a major, right, when you're a sophomore, or you want to be forced into one thing. And this doesn't make a lot of sense to me, 'cause think about a bridge your going over, right, in your city. If it had one point of failure when the winds hit 20 miles per hour, you don't want to be going over that bridge, but a lot of us build our lives around a single point of failure. So the idea that you should only focus on one thing, and there's a lot of bestselling business books that sell this concept.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think there's actually a book called, The ONE Thing.

Nathan Latka:
The ONE Thing and Essentialism, because it sells. It's a really good story, and by the way, I love those guys. I know them all, but it's not practical, and that's because you never want a single point of failure. You want to always be throwing spaghetti noodles up the wall, you don't know which are gonna stick, and then when you see which ones stick, you double down on those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip, because this is something more and more people are traveling, we're not always working in an office, whether we're moving around, whether we work from home or we're going to see clients or traveling with our clients, and there is downtime, which can be wasted time.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, so I travel a lot and like to be efficient, and I would usually, I'd always go to New York on day trips, and I used to have to buy a hotel room because when I landed at 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 AM in the morning, I had to go take a shower somewhere. I would leave the hotel room and only use it for four or five hours. It was a total waste of money for 300, 400 bucks. Now there's this app called Recharge which I use, where when you land in any city really, you can go on Recharge and book an amount of hours in a hotel room. So you go in, get some sleep, get a shower, do you makeup, do your hair, and get ready to go to that meeting.

Nathan Latka:
The old concept in this book is, the folks that are really wealthy in the world today, they climbed a certain ladder, and any time someone climbs a ladder to power or wealth, they then remove rungs from that ladder. They make it more complex so that no one else can climb it and challenge them. And so this group has sold us on four rules, and ultimately these are rules that you shouldn't believe that you must break, and we've talked about a few of them. The first, you don't want to focus on one thing, right? The second is, you should totally feel comfortable copying your competitors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which has been used. To give examples in your book of how this has been used so successfully by some of the biggest companies in the world.

Nathan Latka:
But Bobbi, I bet your audience listening right now when they hear this, they're thinking, "Ugh, I feel dirty. It feels unethical. It feels slimy to copy my neighbor." I bet you they feel that. This is the problem with this tactic. People do this all the time 'cause it's smart, but humans, your natural emotion when you hear the word copy, is it feels bad. But here's, I mean, Facebook rips off every Snapchat feature, right? Steve Jobs went into the Xerox research lab and pulled a bunch of research out of there and basically copied that and that's what made the Lisa. That's what made the Mac and the iPhone and things like this. So you have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitor has already paid to learn, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it, then you add your own twist at the end, and that's where people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I love about this book Nathan is the detail. You made a decision to put a lot of your own personal data out there. Tell me about that approach to writing this book.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, I mean, it's very risky, right? Because the stuff will get old after four or five years, so again, this book is urgent. Say, you know, in page six I have my income statement and my tax return. My actual corporate tax return from 2013, where I was in my dorm room at 21, and we did 939,378 dollars in sales, and I started hiring my team. I put my board deck on page 35, and then I get into more personal finance stuff, right? Where I talk about how I used my very small Instagram following to get a free Rolls-Royce with an email striped on page 118. Or I used, how I did my first real estate deal, it was a 280 thousand dollar deal, where I only had to put essentially five grand down, and it [inaudible 00:08:31] 16 hundred dollars a month. That PNL is on page 149. So there's all kinds of examples here and there's not a big theme. They don't really connect. They're really individual stories that your audience can pick up, flip through and learn to drive their own side hustle and create some more financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what scares you? You have such wonderful confidence. You are how old now?

Nathan Latka:
29, just turned 29.

Bobbi Rebell:
The ripe old age of 29. What have you not done that you are hesitant about?

Nathan Latka:
Nothing really scares my in business, but I'll tell you what scares me in life. I don't know if anyone in your audience has ever gotten mono, but it basically knocks you out. You have to sleep.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's your health.

Nathan Latka:
Well, no, no, no. Health is one thing, but let me be more specific. When you're laying in bed for seven days straight, and your brain is the brain of an entrepreneur, you actually start to go a little insane because your brain goes a million miles an hour in that quiet time, but your body can't keep up with it. So my biggest fear is I get to some point in life where my mind is still going a million miles an hour, but my body can't keep up and execute.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll leave it there, but I want to hear from you. Where can people find out more about all of your ventures?

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, well we're excited. We just signed a TV deal with CNBC, which we didn't talk about. We're very excited about that. It is called Million Dollar Road Trip. So it will be like Shark Tank on the street, basically me walking up to random companies on the street, and in under 20 minutes or less flipping up my checkbook and buying the whole business or investing on the spot.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of like a cross between The Profit and Shark Tank, and by the way, we've had both Barbara Corcoran and Kevin O'Leary on this podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Both great, love them both. So anyways, we're very excited. Again, this book guys, it'll get old. You can't wait. It's one of those things, like the first person who reads it has the biggest advantage. So you want to grab it now. You go to nathanlatka.com/book to get it, and the best way to stay in touch with me, I am on Twitter every day, I'm @NathanLatka. That's L-A-T-K-A.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Nathan. This has been amazing.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, Nathan's energy is contagious. Here we go. Financial grown up tip number one. Nathan is all about systems because he is at a point where things would literally fall apart almost instantly if he didn't have those systems in place, but for most of us, myself included, we can muddle by. So they're kind of haphazard because we don't have to have, but we would be so much better off if we had the right systems. And we know we'd be better off with them in place. Even something as simple as automatic reordering of coffee that we drink at home, that we make at home that we ran out of, but we don't have a system in place to reorder it, and then you know what happens. We go out to get the expensive coffee at the coffee shop, but we're too busy. So take five minutes each day this week, okay? Everyone do this. Take five minutes each day this week and create system for something small but that happens regularly, like the coffee. So if you run out of coffee all the time or you run out of whatever it is that you use on a regular basis, or it could be bill paying, bills that come every month, automate that. DM me on the socials and let me know what you did. I need ideas myself. On Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell. You can also email at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love what Nathan learned from his parents that he talked about in his money story, because by not telling children what is happening when it comes to a money decision, but letting them make a choice, you empower them. This can apply to so many other situations in our personal lives and in our careers. Empower others to make decisions by giving them the specific options and the outcome that would happen based on the choice they make, and let them run with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, Nathan's book is called How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. It is an intense book everyone, but it is good. It is very specific. He literally gives you screen grabs of data that is very personal to him. I was a little shocked but he put it out there, and good for him, and good for us 'cause we learn from it. Go check it out along with his podcast The Top, and of course, big thanks to Nathan Latka for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Steward 00:12:57] and is a BRK Media production.

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration.

In Kelsey's money story you will learn:

• How this young mom started a company from a product she made to keep her son clean during mealtime

• How she started a business with a $99 dollar sewing machine and $20 in fabric

• How her first sale on Etsy launched her into full business mode and the things she had to learn along the way

• The importance asking questions even when you're nervous to do so

In Kelsey's money lesson you will learn:

• If you have an idea, just go for it

• If you aren't embarrassed by the first version of your product you've started too late

In Kelsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Realizing that at some point that you can't do it all

• The importance of finding and identifying people that are great with aspects of your business that you aren't so good at

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from

• Why you'll want to do some test marketing before going all in on your side hustle
  
  

Check out Kelsey's website -

BapronBaby.com

Follow Kelsey!

• Instagram - @BapronBaby

• Facebook - @BapronBaby

• Pinterest - @BapronBaby

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can take a side hustle and turn it into a successful business. #Entrepreneur #SideHustle

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Kelsey Larsen:
I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product. I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people that I had no business talking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was entrepreneur, Kelsey Larsen of BapronBaby talking about jumping in big when she decided her hobby, making unique bibs that wrap around the baby, was going to be a lot more than a stay-at-home mom hobby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup friends and special welcome to our newest listeners. If you have a moment, I want to hear how you discovered the show and also any feedback or suggestions. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or email hello@financialgrownup.com. As I said, suggestions, feedback, anything that can help me improve the show and grow the show, truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to BapronBaby's Kelsey Larsen. The biggest of her story is really relatable but where she went and where she's going is pretty extraordinary and something that we can all learn from. There's so many decisions that she's made so far that really changed the course of where the company is going and that's affected her life and her business. Make sure you stay for our everyday money tip by the way. It is about a vision board, but it's not really the kind of vision board that you're used to. It's got a big twist that I think you guys are going to really get a lot from. Here is BapronBaby founder, Kelsey Larsen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kelsey Larson. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kelsey Larsen:
Thanks, Bobbi. It's so good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your business. You are the founder and the owner. We practiced saying the name because I kept messing it up. It's BapronBaby.

Kelsey Larsen:
BapronBaby. Yeah, it's got- [crosstalk 00:02:32]

Bobbi Rebell:
Which I do want to point out is self-funded and debt-free and you have really ... I mean, your main product are these, I wish they were around when my son was younger, these bibs that are basically for the babies that rip off the bibs and throw them to the side, which is pretty much, at least my kid, a lot of kids.

Kelsey Larsen:
Exactly. The company, I started because my son wouldn't wear bibs and I was getting so frustrated with how many of his outfits he was ruining.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Outfits, furniture, walls. So much can be ruined.

Kelsey Larsen:
All of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All of the things. And I want to talk to you about how this become "A real company," a real brand because you're now in everywhere from Buy Buy Baby, you're on Amazon, just everywhere that you would ... I think over a hundred boutiques in this country. If this started as a hobby though, how did you know this could be a brand? Tell us your money story.

Kelsey Larsen:
You know, it sort of started out a necessity. I was a young mom. I had quite my job in HR to stay home with my little boy and I was living the dream, but my husband's a police officer and we started looking through things and we were like wow, we need some additional income. I had made this product for my son. It was just something that I had created for him because I needed something that would cover his entire body when he was eating meal time and he was comfortable in it. A friend mentioned Etsy. I had never heard of it. I had never sold anything on it, for sure. And I just sort of made a listing. I took some pictures of a bib that my son ... It was a Bapron that my son had actually worn. It was kind of dirty. Just took a picture of it and say hey, I'll sell this to you for ... I think I said like ... My first one, I think I sold for $17.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you just made it at home. You had just made this yourself?

Kelsey Larsen:
I started this business. Honestly, I started everything that I have with a $99 Brother sewing machine and 20 bucks in fabric. It was just something I made in my living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Okay. So, how did you go from ... Now, you start selling it on Etsy. What happens?

Kelsey Larsen:
My very first listing sold within 24 hours to someone I had never met, a stranger in Illinois. All of a sudden, I needed packaging. I needed to figure out how I was going to send this to her. I couldn't just send it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't thought about that?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. No, I didn't think I was ever going to sell anything. So, I had a printer and I went online and I used Microsoft Paint to make myself a logo and write a few words about the product and printed it out and it was very homemade.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that went on for about a year, the Etsy selling. Then, you made a decision to really turn this into a brand. What happened?

Kelsey Larsen:
From Etsy, I gained a little bit of confidence. I started realizing that this is a product that mothers and families need. Toddlers are really happy in it. They're comfortable and they're working. They're waterproof. They have everything that we need. So, I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product ... I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people I had no business talking with. The owner of EzPz, Lindsey Laurain, she ... I reached out to her. One email ... I think I sent her an email on Christmas Eve.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cold? You didn't know her at all?

Kelsey Larsen:
Oh no. No contact prior to it but I knew that she had been on Shark Tank and it was something I had been thinking about. So, I kind of angled it as like "Hey, I'm someone coming up the same path you did and I wanted some insight." It was Christmas Eve and she responded to me at like 11:00 at night within 20 minutes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, wow.

Kelsey Larsen:
She was so quick to answer questions and so quick to give me her tips because she kind of did start the same way. Just a ... Like a mom who had a product that she needed to get out in the world. From there, I was able to awkwardly ask her the questions about "Hey, who makes packages? How do you find a company that does that?" Because when I Googled it, I couldn't really find much. So, a series of those awkward conversation where I asked someone who was successful already and- [crosstalk 00:06:36]

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were just cold calling these people? You were just emailing this people cold?

Kelsey Larsen:
Honestly, it was basically just sending a message on Instagram or finding an email address or just little things here and there. There were businesses that did not ever respond to me, but that's okay. I mean, not everybody has to give me the time of day. Just reaching out about very specific questions and little by little, I found contacts for manufacturing and then I found contacts for a team here in the United States who does the actual sewing of the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then how did you grow it? How did it become this bigger brand that's now in so many retailers?

Kelsey Larsen:
Instagram has been a wonderful wonderful tool and being able to connect with other mothers has been great. Word of mouth advertising is the most successful form of marketing and I never could have grown my business without customers taking my photos. I don't have a photo studio but we're still growing to Buy Buy Baby and we're in Nordstrom and we're on Amazon in these places that I never could have done on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait. What happens is people take pictures of their own babies ... And do you prompt them to do that? Do you ask them to do that or did this just start happening?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. At first, I was just on Instagram trying to [huck 00:07:50] my product to the 12 followers that I had or something. That first customer that I told you about on Etsy, she had bought the Bapron specifically for her little girl's 11-month photo shoot. So, she just sent me pictures just saying like "Hey, look how cute your product is on my baby." I asked her if I could use that for my marketing and she absolutely goes "Yeah, that would be great." And from there, I started to find that people are pretty excited to have their photos out and so I would just reach out individuals who had taken their pictures in the past, say "Hey, if I send you a few products, can you take pictures for me?" Absolutely, they would and it's been a very slow organic growth and brand repping has been something that I've been really grateful for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's really been organic authentic growth through social media.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yes. Along with that though, there was a lot of pacing myself, realizing that I can't do it all. I can't balance manufacturing on my own and marketing on my own and running my social media and taking care of my son and making sure that my family has the things that they need. I very quickly learned how important it was to recognize the things that I'm failing at. Maybe not failing, but that I just cannot fit in and get over the guilt of it, stop feeling bad that I can't do it all. There's a David Allen quote that says "You can do anything, but you can't do everything."

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from this story?

Kelsey Larsen:
If you think you're not ready but you have an idea, there is no harm in just doing it, just going for it. If you're not embarrassed by the first version of your product that you've launched, you've started to late. You'll find your success and you'll find what's working by putting it out in the marketplace, using your success as a test market and allowing yourself to organically grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's something that a lot of us ... It has to do with, frankly, guilt that we feel because we can't do everything we feel we should and we don't want to let people down.

Kelsey Larsen:
So, I have a vision board. I actually have a physical vision board kind of like we did in middle school.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Kelsey Larsen:
I put pictures of things that I'm really good at or I will identify things that I need someone else to do. For example, I do not take good photos. I just don't. And my product and my brand, I mean on Instagram, everything has to look great. So, I've been able to find and identify people who are great at it who I can pay to handle that. Even if it's not money that you've got, talking with other women, other mothers, other business owners, people are really willing to help out other individuals who are trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kelsey, before I let you go, tell us where people can find out more about you and the company.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, we do most of our sales on bapronbaby.com. We are on Amazon. We also ... As far as social media goes, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram. It's just BapronBaby.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're also in retailers, right?

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, local retailers throughout the country. We are in bundles with EzPz on Buy Buy Baby and in Nordstrom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Kelsey.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. It was great to be here. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from. Be smart about it. Don't stalk anyone, okay? But there is nothing wrong with a few polite emails to someone that you admire. Flattery is a great strategy. You would be surprised how well it works and how few people actually do it. Maybe you're going to get a mentor like Kelsey did and that, in here case, got her into a top retailer for her product. You would be amazed at the kinds of things people will do if you connect with them and you bond with them and make a relationship. People really do want to help other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. If you have a side hustle and are considering going all in as Kelsey did, you gotta do some test marketing first before you go all in as she did. Let's not forget. Kelsey was selling Etsy for a year before she even tried to go big. So while her growth plan, once she was doing it, was pretty bold, it did have a really strong foundation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, I want to thank you guys that have checked out my new podcast, Money in the Morning, with Joe Saul-Sehy. You may know him from his other podcast, Stacking Benjamins. So, Joe and I take a couple of news headlines and we share the lessons from it that we can all learn from and we come up with a big idea, a big takeaway that you can really take with you and hopefully make some positive changes in your financial life and your wellbeing and sometimes just overall happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's where it gets really interesting and really scary for me. We do it live. We do not cut anything out and we do it in front of you guys on camera on Facebook Live and if you want to be on the show, you can actually participate with your comments, which we integrate into the show. Go to Facebook.com/istackbenjamins. Set your alerts for when we go live. It's really easy to do that. We're working on a regular schedule but set the alerts for now. We would love to see you there. Check out the audio podcast as well, Money in the Morning. That is wherever you enjoy podcasts, just like this this.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Big thanks to Kelsey for sharing her story and for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Sadie Kurzban won $25,000 in a college contest for entrepreneurs by using a strategy that has continued to drive the growth of her boutique dance fitness chain. The millennial entrepreneur shares her secrets to building a business on a low budget, along with her personal tips on how she manages healthy meals on a budget with her relentless schedule.

Sadie’s Money Story:

Bobbi Rebell:
For your money story, you're going to actually talk to us about how you got the funding to start this, because you were just in college.

Sadie Kurzban:
I was, yes. I started teaching aerobics classes really for fun in college because I was passionate about it. I had always loved group fitness and I thought, well let me take my hand at giving this a try. So I was teaching it for fun and when I was thinking about what I wanted to do for my career around graduation, that my senior year my friend turned to me and she was like, "Girl, like this is your passion, you need to do this" and I was like, "What? I'm not going to graduate college and go be a fitness instructor".

Bobbi Rebell:
You were at Brown University by the way.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yes, I graduated top of my class. Everyone around me was getting a job in consulting. They were going to medical school, going to law school and I was like, "I think I should go do something like that". So I was like, "How am I going to go?" I even, I remember I looked up in Brown alumni who's in fitness, even just as a category and there was like one alumni from the 70's like it's just not a very popular thing to do. So, I was like, "God, I'm not going to go. Yeah, I have bigger ambitions than being a trainer". So she said, "Why don't you just start a business?" I was like, "What?" I had never even thought about starting a business, truly. This was right before senior year.

Sadie Kurzban:
We started looking up in the course curriculum, entrepreneurship, accounting, really we were kind of scrambling and I ended up majoring in economics, which was really funny and unexpected. But I took every entrepreneurship related, business related, accounting related. It was my entire senior year I was filled with these courses, studying my tail off and I entered the big annual business plan pitch competition. So it's a 10 minute pitch. It's all students, almost all the teams were all male. A lot of the teams were graduate students who had invented like incredible things like medical devices, like really impressive businesses and here I was, I was like, "I'm going to start this dance cardio workout. It has a DJ. It's really fun. This is why I should win". It was really surprising at the end of the day that I won, but it really was the sign from the universe that I needed to move to New York and make this happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why do you think you won? What was the differentiator?

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, I'll tell you why I think I won was that it's held in the school auditorium and it's a pretty nerdy competition. A lot of business majors, a lot of masters students that I got hundreds of kids who would come take my class every week. I said, "I'm entering this pitch competition. If you love these fitness classes I've been teaching, please come and cheer me on". So I packed the room. I mean, honestly, with 300, 400 students that were screaming their heads off for me. So I think the judges, while they thought, well maybe, I don't know if they felt this was the most impressive business, but what they definitely saw was I had proven the concept and I had really gotten a handful of ... More than a handful of really passionate evangelists. So they knew I was onto something and getting people super passionate about this early on has been the biggest gift and the biggest way that we've grown so quickly, as you know with limited resources, getting customers to really evangelize us and tell their friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and then you got the $25,000 to get going.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, it was enough to at least give me the confidence to move to New York and give myself nine months to try and make it happen.

Sadie’s Money Lesson:

Sadie Kurzban:
I think the biggest lesson there is, I didn't worry so much about all of the 'what if's' and the house and even moving to New York and all of these things and renting space. I just thought about how can I get every customer who walks in to really go back to their next dinner, to work the next day and talk about this like it's nobody's business, right? So with pretty limited resources, $25,000 in New York City is not a lot of money at all. I knew I didn't have a lot of room for error, but what I did have was customers in front of me every day and if I could get one person super jazzed about this, telling 10 people, that was free marketing for me. So I had to really deliver on the experience and most importantly stop worrying about all the 'what if's' and what could happen. Really think about that person in front of me and look at them as a real opportunity to keep just running through the doors that have been opened for me and breaking the glass ceiling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your instructors are really brand ambassadors.

Sadie Kurzban:
They are, yes. We all live in Brea, 305 and we know how important that client in front of us is.

Sadie’s Money Tip:

Sadie Kurzban:
So yeah, I was thinking a little bit about this because they listened to your show and I have to admit I'm not great at saving. I'm a little bit better at just creating things and I tend to kind of close my eyes and drive at the same time when it comes to money. But the one way that I really do, I think successfully saved is again, in a city like New York where it's really tempting to do seamless every night or go to dinner, that can really add up big time, like $30, $40 every night. So instead what I do is, I cook and I eat a lot of homemade meals or I'll pack it to the office. But the best thing that I found is really, instead of, it would just be so daunting to get home late at night and cook for myself every night this [inaudible 00:07:48] meal.

Sadie Kurzban:
So what I do is I cook a whole bunch on Sundays, like a bunch, as much as I can. I refrigerate enough for three days and then everything left over I freeze. So by the time the weekend rolls around, unfolding and I'm cooking again. So it's enough what I make on Sunday to really carry me through the week and within that what I've found is another tip within that is, that if I put all this pressure on myself to make these gourmet meals and I'm chopping onions and all these things, I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to wake up on Sunday and I'm going to think no way, no way. So instead I'll splurge a bit on the pain in the butt stuff like chopping onions, chopping garlic. This stuff that I know is going to come up in every recipe, I'll get those precut so I'll spend the extra dollar at trader Joe's knowing that someone else's has cut or a machine has cut the onions for me and that way I know I can make the meal in five minutes instead of taking me 15 minutes to make everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. That's so practical and it's also important because you aren't just sitting in an office, you actually go and teach these classes.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Sadie won that first $25,000 in college by doing something no one else did. She literally brought her own cheering section of happy clients. They were there to cheer for her, but they were also there with her. None of us can do everything alone. Sadie doesn't, she brings others along for the ride. If you do that in your life with anything, not just business, but anything that matters to you, include others, make them stakeholders in your success and also you can hear it in her voice, it just made it so much fun.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love Sadie's hybrid approach to cooking at home. You will not get a prize if you chop every single onion. It is more than okay to splurge and pay a little more to have some ingredients prepped for you so you're more likely to not only eat healthy but also not waste money ordering out and having food delivered. The key thing, and I'm still working on this myself, is the organizational element and the planning.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• 305 Fitness career opportunities

• Money with Friends podcast

• Sadie’s website - 305 Fitness

Follow Sadie!

• Instagram - @305fitness

• Twitter - @305fitness

• Facebook - @305fitness

• Pinterest - @305fitness

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sadie Kurzban won $25,000 in a college contest for entrepreneurs by using a strategy that has continued to drive the growth of her boutique dance fitness chain. The millennial entrepreneur shares her secrets to building a business on a low budget, along with her personal tips on how she manages healthy meals on a budget with her relentless schedule. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how Sadie built her business on a budget and how you can too. #Budget #Entrepreneur #Fitness

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. 

In Jocelyn's money story you will learn:

• How her business, The Scholarship System, came about from her own experience

• How Dave Ramsey had influenced her decision to seek out scholarships

• How she won enough scholarships to pay for not only college but also living expenses

• What a scholarship scam is and how to know what to look for to avoid them

In Jocelyn’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why she feels like applying to more and more scholarships actually becomes easier

• How you can still continue to get scholarships even when you are out of high school and in college

In Jocelyn's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Not all scholarship opportunities are online and some are still on paper. Jocelyn shares where you can find these scholarships

In My Take you will learn:

• Other places you can find scholarships besides just educational institutions

• One benefit to look for in your job search that can help with student debt

Episode Links:

Jocelyn's book The Scholarship System

Jocelyn’s free webinar

Melanie Lockert's Financial Grownup Episode

Check out Jocelyn's website -

https://thescholarshipsystem.com/

Follow Jocelyn!

• LinkedIn - @TheScholarshipSystem

• Twitter - @ScholarshipSYS

• Facebook - @TheScholarshipSystem

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how to find and recognize good scholarships and how to apply for them. #MoneyTips #Scholarships

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jocelyn Pearson:
Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair, so these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. College, totally affordable, said no one ever. It's crazy expensive and every dollar that you can save is a really good thing. That much debt student debt on the other end. So glad I was able to get Jocelyn Paonita Pearson on the program. She is the master at finding money to pay for school and save precious time while doing it with a fantastic program called, The Scholarship System. Welcome, to everyone. If you're a new, we're so glad you discovered the show. We interview high achievers and get their money stories, and their lessons and even some every day money tips, all in about 15 minutes. If you have a little more time though, feel free to stack a few episodes together to make it work for you. With that, here is Jocelyn Paonita Pearson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jocelyn Paonita Pearson. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to learn more about The Scholarship System because who doesn't need more money for education for themselves, for their children, for the future and so on. Tell us, just briefly, what it is before we get to your money story.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Sure, so The Scholarship System is a six step process that I accidentally stumbled upon to pay for college without taking out student loans. Now, it started off as a simple book, but then we learned that our families wanted true live interaction and get some videos, worksheets, templates, you name it, and so now it is a full on course, blog and tons of resources for families to learn how to pay for college with scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're going to circle back to that, but first, I want to get to your money story, which is actually very appropriate because that's actually how you came up with this. It all started with you and your own scholarship needs. Do tell.

Jocelyn Pearson:
I would love to. So, it really was an accident. When I was in high school, my parents sat us down. I'm one of five kids, and they said, "We love you guys, but there is no way we could pay for college." Because at this rate it's half a million to a million dollars for this many kids, right? So, I was a pretty bullheaded teenager who just ... I did not want to take out student loan debt. Actually, I had watched Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University in one of my high school classes and made me terrified of any kind of debt, nevermind just student debt. So, I started off on a path to get scholarships for college and I just, for some reason, assumed my university would give me a ton of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
They did not though. They give you very little, I got to say. $2,000, right?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. And what was tuition? What did that represent versus tuition?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Tuition was I think around 10 grand a year, so I needed way more just for tuition, but the thing was my freshman year in college tuition was just half of my expenses. So, in the end, it cost me over 20 grand a year. So, yeah, they gave me, what? 10%?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that tuition is not everything. There's so much more that comes out of pocket. Not to mention the fact that ... sometimes your earnings are more limited than they might have been otherwise because you're studying, so you can't work as many hours as you might be able to if you weren't in school. There's that opportunity cost as well.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. And that's the beautiful thing about what I figured out is that I could use this money that I ended up getting without stealing too much from the end to pay for these other expenses as well, not just tuition. So, that was beautiful, but it was not a beautiful process at the beginning. It was so painful. I think a lot of your listeners could probably relate. I think most people either have the intentions of applying for scholarships or have given it a shot, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
And this was first happening in high school, I should say. You're in [crosstalk 00:04:24] figuring this out.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What number are you among the five children? Did you have older siblings that had done this already?

Jocelyn Pearson:
No, so I was the guinea pig.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. So, I started looking for scholarships and spent my junior year, this was before I knew that I was not getting much money, but I spent my junior years nonchalantly applying. But what I was doing was I was applying to these, what I later found out, were pretty much scams. So, I wasted an entire year applying to scholarships that weren't legitimate.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by scams? What would they be? They would say there was a scholarship and then they would just get your data? What was going on?

Jocelyn Pearson:
That's pretty much what it was. Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair. So, these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time, period.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are they legit? Like, if you win, it is at least legit. If you want to enter a lottery, it's not ... They're not taking from you. Your worst case scenario is you've wasted your time. I mean what is the danger of these scams? Because I don't know about this.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's a great question. So, my inbox that I used for that, now has over 20,000 unread emails, and I'm not exaggerating, literally over 20,000. I'm sure it's way more now. Because what they did was they were taking my information and selling it to affiliate marketers. So, your inbox will pretty much be destroyed and whatever information you've given could possibly be given out. So, it's not that they're necessarily really hurting you, but in this day and age, our data is really valuable. So, it was a way for them to target teenagers especially.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who don't know better. Who are just looking to pay for their college education.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Exactly. Which is the easiest, most vulnerable set of people to go after because everything is so scary and overwhelming with this process in itself. So, I got sucked into that. I did not know until finally the end of my junior year, I found a small little local scholarship that was 500 bucks, and I applied and wrote this essay. It was terrible. I had so many different drafts that I had to go back and forth and fix, but in the end, I won 500 bucks. Some people might be thinking, $500, you needed pretty much six figures to get a free ride. Why would you waste your time on $500? But that $500 scholarship meant so much more for me because what it did was it validated scholarships in general. It showed me, "Hey Jocelyn, there is money out there. There are scholarships out there. You just need to know what you're looking for, and apply to the right ones."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was different about that $500 one versus what you call the scams?

Jocelyn Pearson:
You asked the best questions. This is one of the golden nuggets that we really harp on in our course, and it's to know if a scholarship is legitimate or not. There's really a spectrum. So I mentioned the ones that are based on luck, you throw your name in a drawing, and you're entered to win $10,000. Those are not worth your time. Even though people are like, "Well, someone has to win them." I have been doing this for now nearly a decade, and I've never met anyone to win one, so it's not worth your time. But on the other end of the spectrum, we have scholarships that asked for criteria that we compete, that shows our qualifications for money.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Those are the ones that are worth our time. For example, I mentioned the one that I finally won $500 with required essays. That was something where, if I improve my essay, if I write a high quality essay, that increases my chances of winning. It's something within my control beyond just luck. So, in that way, it has a higher chance of being legitimate. The more it's based on my true credentials, and my competitiveness versus luck.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you eventually raised I think $126,000 to fund your education and the ancillary costs of that education, correct?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. So, in the end I got to six figures, and I was, not only able to graduate completely debt free, but I actually got an overage check every school year, every semester to pay for any external expenses that I had that were beyond my bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, What is the lesson for our listeners here that people don't know that's not obvious? Because there's a lot to this. It's not just write an essay. There's a strategy here.

Jocelyn Pearson:
When I got my six figures in scholarships, it was not all in my senior year. It was gradual. Every single year I was able to apply for more and more money and it got easier and easier, I promise. That might sound like a lot of work, but once you get some winning ups, you just reuse them. So, that's actually a golden nugget as well. But every single year can get more money. A lot of people think, oh, once I finished high school, I'm out of luck. There aren't any more opportunities for me to change my status when it comes to loans or scholarships. That's not true.

Jocelyn Pearson:
And the second one that I want to share is to find these scholarships, and we will share a free webinar, where I go in more depth and have more time about this, but we teach how to use Google the right way to find scholarships. I think one of the biggest challenges with the scholarship process is it's so overwhelming for students, where they go to Google, they look up scholarships, and they find a bunch of junk that doesn't even pertain to them. One of the smallest low hanging fruit tactics that we can teach that someone can implement in two seconds is to go to Google and Google their community or their zip code or their city name plus the word "community foundation." And oftentimes, community foundations have half a million, a million plus dollars to give out in scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right there, that one search can open the doors to, not just dozens of scholarships, but dozens have scholarships specifically for students in their area, which means it's less competitive.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip, which is very retro. It has to do with paper. Give it up Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. This is so funny. Back in the day, if I will, when I was doing this, paper applications were more common, but believe it or not, they still are around. I know that's hard to believe, but there are organizations like the Elks Club or the Rotary Club, where some of them just aren't tech savvy just yet. And so, what they're doing is they're still sending letters to our guidance counselors saying, "Hey, we have this money, can you please share it with students?" A lot of schools are now doing great where they put that inside a student portal or put it on some sort of page for students, but there are still some that just stash that away inside a filing cabinet. I highly recommend students, go into the Guidance Office at their high school and also at their colleges. Again, remember this is not over in high school.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of scholarships don't even start or not available to freshmen. Sometimes they start at older grades.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right. And there's a reason for that. One of the reasons is because once you get to college, you have such a higher chance of graduating, so people want to make sure they're giving the money to the highest chance of someone that would do something with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, I never knew that.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's [crosstalk 00:11:23].

Bobbi Rebell:
I never thought of it that way. That is so interesting. But a lot of this that you talk about in the scholarship system is that it's about effort, but it's also about knowing which scholarships are less competitive because some scholarships don't have that many people applying. We're talking about these paper applications where you have to physically go into the office IRL and asked for them. That gives you a big leg up.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely, Bobbi. That's the one thing is ... a lot of students, they go after the Dr Pepper Scholarship or the Coca Cola scholarship, where it's a free ride in one shot, but the problem is everyone is going after that one. And even I, I applied for the KFC one, I didn't get it, but that was a really competitive one. And then when I realized, you know what? That $500 one, $1,000 one, $1,200 one, they still add up pretty quickly and yet, I'm competing against ... actually, just a quick story. Once, ISM had an application and they had two awards that they were going to give out. And this was a local based one. In the end, they only received four scholarship applications, so they doubled the award and gave all four of us an award. So, it was 100% success rate because it was one of the lucky ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, isn't it incredible?

Bobbi Rebell:
You have to just try. Okay, before we wrap up, I want to hear what is going on with the scholarship system. You have a webinar, first of all, so tell us about that and how else people can learn more about you and all your social channels.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. I appreciate that. So, we have a free webinar that we hold. It's around an hour to an hour and 15 minutes. I go in-depth about some very large myths, which we did burst a few here, but I go in more depth on those in the Webinar, as well as a very specific places you can look, including more detail on how to use our Google method. So, if you're interested in joining our webinar and registering, it's completely free. You can go to, we created a unique link just for Bobbi's audience. So, you go to the scholarshipsystem.com/grownup. This is for parents and students. Actually, if you can attend together, that's even better.

Jocelyn Pearson:
So, that's the best place to get ... just hit the ground running when it comes to finding these scholarships we're talking about. The low hanging fruit, the ones that have a greater chance of winning and get started. Then, if you want any additional information, I love our Facebook page. We share scholarships on there as well as tons of helpful articles, our own and others. So, you can just go to Facebook and search "The Scholarship System." And then our website, we have a weekly blog that we give and these are massive, actionable in-depth blog posts and you can just go to the scholarshipsystem.com for those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This is all so important. And you're really creating the shortcuts because we're all so busy, so this is kind of a central place for everyone to go. So, thank you, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Here is my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, scholarships are not limited to educational institutions. Many professional conferences have them. In fact, usually the information on how to apply is right on the website, but you can also just write to the people running the conference and find out. For example, one of my favorite events, The Lola Retreat, run by Melanie Lockert, who has been on this podcast, we'll link to her episode, offer scholarships, including one financed by this podcast. Another conference that I attend that offer scholarships is Finncon. It is run by Philip Taylor, Aka PT Money, also has been on this conference, and they offer scholarships for content creators that are looking into the industry or growing their business and aren't really financially able to attend. Totally worth applying to all these kind of conferences and seeing if there are scholarship money available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do graduate with debt, student debt I should say, consider looking for jobs that have programs to help pay down those loans or that will pay for graduate school so you don't take on more debt. It is becoming more common in this tight job market. Thank you, to everyone, for being here with us. Please share with friends and be in touch with your tips on paying for education, both school and professional developments. On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1 and Twitter, @bobbirebell and you can always email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And by the way, I have a new podcast, in addition to this one. Financial Grownup is not going anywhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is with my friend Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins' fame. It is called, Money in the Morning. We talk about headlines and break down what matters to you, and we tape it live on Facebook. We will leave links to where you can join us in the show notes. Big thanks to Jocelyn Paonita Pearson for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we talk about the 3 money tips for living abroad. #LivingAbroadForAYear #LivingAbroadTips

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Wander Wealthy’s Tess Wicks shares her early interest in investing in the stock market, how Warren Buffett inspired her, the advice her family gave her and what got her to actually make her first investment. Her every day money tip will resonate with fans of Marie Kondo who are tired of feeling overwhelmed by their belongings. 

In Tess' money story you will learn:

• The reason she felt like she was starting to invest late at the age of 22

• What Dollar Cost Averaging is and why you might want to invest this way

• Why investing may feel overcomplicated, but it can actually be really easy

In Tess’ money lesson you will learn:

• You may never feel ready but it's important to just jump in anyway

• Why the younger you start investing, the better it is for you in the long run

In Tess' everyday money tip you will learn:

• How creating a capsule wardrobe can not only help you save money, but may bring more joy to your life in the spirit of Marie Kondo

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to realize that you must actually start the clock in order to have time on your side

• Just because you have a lot of space for more stuff, that doesn't mean you need to fill that space with stuff

Episode Links:

Learn more about Value Investing!

Financial Grownup Guest Danielle Town is one of my favorite resources.

This is a great piece on value investing from one of my favorite websites Investopedia!

Check out Tess' Invested program and website -

• The Invested Program

• Wander Wealthy

Follow Tess!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Tess Wicks:
After doing that it opened up the whole world of money to me; it really helped me see the possibility of money and what's really important here is that you don't need to be ready, you don't need to know all of the facts, you just have to dive in.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to be a Financial Grownup" and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown-up, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, we are going global here at Financial Grownup to Italy for this episode, virtually of course. It is a podcast, come on guys, you know we weren't really going.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tess Wicks, you may know her from her blog, her podcast and her super fun, and honestly, extremely informative and educational, YouTube channel, all under the brand, Wonder Wealthy. She moved to Italy for love, but she's also building her own entrepreneurial venture which we talk about in our interview. Tess is someone that I've been impressed with for quite some time from afar, and I was really excited to get to talk to her about her proactive approach to investing and creating systems so that we can all stay on track to meet our financial goals. Very appropriate for the beginning of the year, even if you do something you never plan to do like move to Europe. No excuses, just different opportunities. Here is Tess Wicks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Tess Wicks, you're a financial grown-up, welcome to the podcast.

Tess Wicks:
Thank you so much Bobbi. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well I'm excited that you're here because I am such a fan of Wander Wealthy, which is your brand, it is on YouTube, where you're ... I'm sorry to use this term, but you're so adorable. You have buddy tips that even I don't know which is truly brilliant, and of course you have your podcast, so congratulations on it all.

Tess Wicks:
Thank you so much, it's really wonderful to hear coming from you, someone who's been on TV, now doing radio podcast stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're a natural of all of it, and you have so many great things in the works and I'm gonna give a little teaser after your money story and everyday money tip. We're gonna give everyone a sneak peek to something new that they can be a part of. But first let's get to your money story which is really appropriate because here we are, we're taping this in January, this has been a very stressful and a bit of a rollercoaster ride for anyone that is interested in investing and the stock market, and it's something that even I find a bit overwhelming, whether or not to put new money in, what to do with the money that you have. Your money story has to do with a big decision you made to just get started, go for it.

Tess Wicks:
Yes, absolutely so I started investing right out of college and that to me felt late because I was majoring in Actuarial Science and Finance in college, so I was supposed to be the money expert here, I supposed to know my stuff and I remember going through my portfolio, investing class in college, I think it was my senior year, it was full of just guys and they all seemed like they knew what they were doing, and I was so confused but I knew that investing was something that people did, especially wealthy people, and someone I really looked up to, well first when I was younger, was my brother who is seven years older than me and he started investing when he was 12, so I was very behind compared to him. And I would ask my dad all the time about investing and he would try and explain it to me while we were driving in his truck and I just never could get it. And then of course college happened and then I started looking up to Warren Buffet cos one of my professors made us read us every single one of his letters to shareholders for Berkshire Hathaway. So if you know anything about Warren Buffet, then you're probably a fan too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, he is all about value investing. We'll leave some links to help you look and learn about value investing and Warren Buffett.

Tess Wicks:
Yes, so I actually remember so I was sitting, we had this little TV room that all the kids would pile into, I'm one of four, when I was little. And I'm sitting there after college and I'm about to leave on a big, not around the world, but I was going to go on a trip to New Zealand to [inaudible 00:04:35] myself solo, traveling the world, and I was but I know there's something I need to do first, and that was to make my first investment.

Tess Wicks:
And I had no idea where to start. All I knew was wealthy people invested. I asked my brother how to open up an investment account, and he was "Just choose one, Saber, Vanguard, whatever." I basically knew that I needed to invest in, or I thought what would be good and smart for me at the time, was to invest in some sort of index mimicking, exchange traded fund or a mutual fund. So those were all that I knew.

Tess Wicks:
And the thing and the reason that I wanted to tell this story is that I just did it. I didn't even know what the stock market looked like at the time; I didn't know a lot about investing, but I just did it. I was 22 years old and I just did it. After doing that, it opened up the whole world of money to me; it really helped me see the possibilities of money and what's really important here is that you don't need to be ready, you don't need to know all of the facts, you just have dive in, and especially when you are young, you have that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the one thing that happened that finally pulled the trigger on it for you?

Tess Wicks:
There wasn't one thing except this build up of pressure of saying, I'm supposed to know this stuff, so I'm just gonna do it so I can get that experience, and maybe once I get the experience, I'll figure it out after that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And did you put systems in place? Did you put in any kind of automatic investing? Dollar cost averaging? What's been your general system since then?

Tess Wicks:
Okay, well at that time no. I had saved up a chunk of money during my internship during school, and was like, I know this is enough to open an account so I'm gonna go, and at that time, nothing, I literally let that investment stay put and I never really touched it until two or three years later. But in that two or three year timeframe, after I got back from my summer trip and I started my work full-time, my brother, the investing guru had told me about [Roble 00:06:40] advisors and I actually opened a Roble advisor account and then I started regularly investing in that, along with of course my 401 cape through my employers. So I was taking advantage of dollar cost averaging which is just investing on a regular basis, once a month I think, was my timeline and I had set a couple of goals cos with Roble advisors you can do that as well. I knew I wanted to invest for the long term because I want to be really rich in 20, 30, 40 years, and I think I wanted to buy an investment property. I was very future oriented when I was 22, so that's what I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is your takeaway for our listeners, especially those who are sitting here, knowing like you did that they should be investing but they're watching the market and they're thinking, well I don't want to put money into a market that keeps going down. As we're taping here, I have a screen to the side of me and the market is down today again.

Tess Wicks:
Yes, okay so first of all, anything you wanna do, when it comes to money or anything else, you never are going to feel ready, you just have to jump in. So that's my one, number one of that, is just, you just have to suck it up. But if you're looking at the market specifically, something that I realized, and there's a lot of historical data and different reports that you can look up about this, is if you miss 10 or 20 of the best trading days in the market, in a 15 year increment, your returns get cut significantly. The thing is, we don't know when those best trading days are going to be. It could be literally tomorrow so if you get in today you can capture a really great trading day tomorrow. But we don't know when that's going to happen, so the best time to get invested is when you just have money and you are financially capable to be investing, meaning you have an emergency savings fund, your high interest debt is being taken care of, hopefully paid off, and now you feel financially able to put some money into the market.

Tess Wicks:
And the younger you are, the better, because the longer timeframe you have to maybe have those investments lose a little bit of money, and then maybe make some money and of course at the end of the day the trend has historically been upwards so if you can do that, you should be okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your everyday money tip is genius because you, for those folks who don't know that much about you, you moved across the world to Italy for love, and when you move you can't bring everything but that's a good thing when it comes to your everyday money tip, go for it.

Tess Wicks:
Yeah my everyday money tip is to create a capsule wardrobe or if you want to be more general, you can just downsize, whether it's your wardrobe or the things in your house. Even if you have a lot of space for stuff, I find that when we downsize and we make it a high priority to find things that we love to keep in our home, we're then able to save more money by setting some really high requirements for what we bring into our lives. And it just makes you way more aware about the things you already have, how you can make good use of them, and when you feel like you're tempted to spend, you'll probably second guess a lot of the time and then you won't necessarily spend as much money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a good thing, especially when so many pieces are in motion.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have a new program starting this winter that I think is a really innovative approach to what we just talked about, to investing and to making sure to put yourself and your future and the money you'll have in the future, as a priority. Tell us more about the Invested Program.

Tess Wicks:
Yeah so the Invested Program is a six module program where I give you the information that you need but also the steps that you can take and implement in your life to create a personalized prudent investment strategy for yourself. Now I'm a big index investor kind of girl. I like to base my investment strategy off of research, especially Nobel Prize winning research and theories that have worked in the past.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're so intense Tess! Oh my God!

Bobbi Rebell:
Sorry, keep going. Oh my gosh.

Tess Wicks:
That's what I like to teach cos I want people to feel confident that they know what they're doing. Cos I think what holds you back lots of times especially when it comes to investing, is it is just way over complicated by the media, by a lot of people on Wall Street, even by your Great Uncle Gary. You think, oh my gosh I can never figure out what's gonna be good or what's gonna be bad, and it's scary when things are unclear and when you don't have that confidence. So in the program I really try and fill people with confidence and give them the things they need to know and how investing can actually be really easy. And then on top of that, I have a live bonus module where you get to watch me invest twice a week, from here til in the future, so you can see me putting the strategies I teach into action and I think that really helps people gain confidence and see that it really does work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well it also gives you the confidence that even though the market can be such a rollercoaster, that doesn't mean you can't control your investments and still make it work for you.

Tess Wicks:
Exactly and there is obviously very important criteria that you'll put in place for yourself to meet your needs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And I love the fact that you do so much of the research behind the scenes and then filter it down and then deliver exactly what people need to know, and not everything. Because as you said, sometimes things are made so complicated that we just can't get it done; it's just not happening because there's too much.

Tess Wicks:
Yes absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay Tess, tell us where we can learn more about the Investor program and you and Wander Wealthy and all the things.

Tess Wicks:
Yes, so you can find all of my content at Wonderwealthy.com. There's links to my YouTube channel, to the podcast and if you wanna learn more about the Invested program, it's actually gonna officially launching early February, but you can get into, I have a free investing bootcamp; it's ten days, you get e-emails and we start getting you into the investing world, and you can go to Wonderwealthy.com/invest to sign up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, and I love that you feel like you are part of a team and a group and that gets you motivated, because sometimes in the new year, we have all of those goals, we need that. We need to feel that accountability.

Tess Wicks:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tess Wicks, thank you so much. Love it all. I'll keep watching Wander Wealthy and I love your podcast and I'm excited to see the Invested Program. Thank you.

Tess Wicks:
Thanks so much Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right friends, lets get right to it. Here is my take. Financial Grownup tip, number one: time is only on your side if you actually start the clock. Now this is one clock we all want to be ticking. Saving money is not enough as Tess points out. There is never gonna be an obvious time to start investing, so you have to start. Make sure to invest the money that you have allocated to investing; no sitting on the sidelines for every. You can wait a little. I would say if you're cautious, dollar cost invest, averaging everything out to smooth the ups and downs, that means putting a set amount of money into the market at set intervals so that you don't get the highs and lows. You also don't get all the highs when you're avoiding the lows, but so be it. The point is, start the clock, start the timer, get going, just like Tess says.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love that Tess talked about downsizing our stuff and most of us have too much, that's the truth of it, which is so appropriate given that many of us are watching the [inaudible 00:14:23] Show on Tidying up on Netflix. Just because you have enough space for more stuff and you're not going abroad like Tess is, doesn't mean that you need to buy and keep things to fill all the space. Make sure you know where things are. That's something I have a hard time with myself even though I live in an apartment, I put things away in a safe place and then I don't know where they are. And then you know what happens? You can't find it and you buy another one. And then what happens? You find the original item. So lets all work towards getting past that and only having the things we want, need or see a need for realistically in the future, getting more organized so we don't buy things we already have.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would love to hear from you about your experience, your first experience investing or if it hasn't happened yet, what is keeping you from it? And how can we all get started, finding our starting line and getting things going? Be in touch on all the socials, at Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, my Facebook page is Bobbi Rebbell and you can email me at Hello@FinancialGrownup.com. And by the way, I mention my Facebook page because something interesting is happening on Facebook, specifically Facebook Live with a new project that I have been alluding to a little bit here. I've talked about it a couple of times, but if you have not already, please check out my new podcast, a second podcast, Financial Grownup's not going anywhere, it is called Money in the Morning, it is with my dear friend Joe Saul-Sehy, you may know him from Stacking Benjamin's fame. We tape live on the Stacking Benjamin's Facebook page at IstackBenjamins and there is audience participation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I hope you guys will join us, we read your comments live and it's a really really fun thing to do if you have some time. We're gonna start posting a specific schedule in advance there and I'll also be sure to share it on my socials as well. And big thanks to the inspiring Tess Wicks of Wanderwealthy for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown-up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Grant Sabatier was ready to retire at age 30 with over a million dollars saved - in large part by being mindful of his big expenses. The the author of "Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” shocked many followers by moving to New York City, one of the most expensive cities in the world. 

In Grant's money story you will learn:

• The reason behind Grant's controversial to move from Chicago to the more expensive NYC- despite it's impact on his FIRE goals

• How much more expensive NYC really is compared to Chicago if you apply Grant's money strategies

• Why he feels NYC lifestyle justifies the higher cost

• One thing he loves that is actually less expensive in NYC than it was in Chicago

• The surprising differences he found in cost of living between the two cities.

In Grant’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels that "money only matters when you can live a life you love"

• The things you can do to retire in 10-20 years or less

• Why he feels that cutting out the small things that bring us joy isn't necessarily the best way to save

• The best areas in budgeting you can save your money in

In Grant's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The exact questions he asks himself-and you should before making a purchase to determine it's true cost and value

• Where to find resources to make the calculations yourself

In My Take you will learn:

• How using a calculator can help to change your mindset

• Why it's important to not get caught up in the labels and trends

Episode links:

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Financial Freedom book trailer

• Financial Freedom podcast

Check out Grant's websites -

• Millennial Money

• Financial Freedom Book

Follow Grant!

• Instagram @MillennialMoneyCom and @FinancialFreedom

• LinkedIn

• Twitter @MillennialMoney

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Speaker 1:
What kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is, okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. So excited about this episode. Amazing guests we have here, Grant Sabatier. He is the author of the new book Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. That sounds pretty good. He is also known as the creator of Millennial Money and as you will hear, he went from having just a couple of bucks to his name to being a millionaire. In fact, having more than a million bucks by following the principles of the FIRE movement. By the way that stands for financial independence, retire early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant also came up with a lot of new ideas of his own that he put to work to reach his goals. He recently did something very controversial and surprising to many people in the FIRE movement. In fact, I personally was totally caught off guard and thought I heard it wrong because it just didn't make sense that he of all people would do this. More in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick hello to everyone. We have a lot of new listeners in the new year, so welcome. We interview high achievers here on the Financial Grownup Podcast who share many stories that we can all learn from along with everyday money tips. And we keep it short so you can stack a few episodes together to fit your commute, your workout or whatever you're up to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Grant's unbelievable story. So many takeaways from this interview and then from his book. Again, can't believe he actually did this. Here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grant Sabatier, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Grant Sabatier:
Hey, glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations. You book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need is about to be a huge best seller. We were just talking offline about all the big plans you have, including your trailer just came out. I just watched it. So cool. Congrats on all.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. It's been a long time coming. It's like a two year plus project and I'm just super excited to have it released worldwide and hear and get the feedback and help as many people as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is the latest step on a journey you've been on since going from having I think what $2.26 to your name, something like that, to having $1.25 million. You skyrocketed to fame with your Millennial Money website.

Grant Sabatier:
I feel, even though I'm only 33, I feel like I'm kind of in the bonus years of my life in a lot of ways and it's super cool and I'm grateful for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I hope every year feels like a bonus year for you. This has been a big year. I want to talk and you agreed to share his story about a controversial decision that you recently made that sounds contradictory to a lot of the things that people in the FIRE movement, which is financial independence, retire early, which you're part of advocate. You moved to New York City. My home. So welcome by the way.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not the most bargain place to be building up your financial nest egg Grant. What's going on? Tell us your money story.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, that's a great question. I've gotten that a lot recently. You're right. Compared to Chicago where I was living, where I became financially independent, New York City has about a 2.35X cost of living multiple, meaning things are about 2.35 times as expensive here than in Chicago. So based on that, you would expect to need at least double the amount of money.

Grant Sabatier:
But those are just statistics and one of the things that, I did quite a bit of preparation before I moved to New York City to get a sense for obviously what apartments cost and what food costs. And one of the things that I pretty quickly realized was you can make whatever life you want in New York City. Even though writ large, it's incredibly expensive. It's incredibly expensive to buy real estate here. It often doesn't make sense to buy real estate if you're going to be here for less than six or seven years.

Grant Sabatier:
But from a rental perspective, there's actually an incredible amount of affordable rentals that I was able to find. Food is actually categorically less expensive than in Chicago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. Good example, I'm a huge raspberry fan. I eat them every morning. I love them. It's just something that I know the price of. And in Chicago it was about $4 for just a little bunch of raspberries. And a block and a half from my apartment in New York City. I'm able to get them for $1.50.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, tell me, let me stop you here. So why did you move to, a lot of people might be surprised because to achieve financial freedom, a lot of people, including you, talk about yeah, watch the little things, but really watch the big things. Like housing, like your food bill, the big things. And yet you upsized the biggest thing to some degree. People often move to less expensive locations, at least while they're building up their nest egg, which I understand you already did.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us about the decision to move to a more expensive city, or more expensive in most ways. Why and what it's been like.

Grant Sabatier:
So actually, ironically, I've been in New York City six months and I spent, I think it's 17, I keep track of all this stuff about 17 to 20 percent less than the previous six months that I lived in Chicago. So it's actually been less expensive to live in New York City. My rent here is less than the mortgage payment that I was paying on my apartment.

Grant Sabatier:
I moved to New York City because I lived in Chicago for pretty much all of the last 14 years. I went to college in Chicago and was more than ready for a change. I always wanted to live in New York City. I grew up on the east coast. I wanted to come back. I don't know if I'm going to be a New York City lifer, but because the book's coming out, the proximity to media, I'm a huge fan of the Catskills and the Hudson River Valley. I think they're incredibly beautiful. I'd visited them a few times. And in fact I spend quite a bit of time there now.

Grant Sabatier:
And so for me, obviously housing, transportation and food, that's where the average American spends 70% or more of their income. And if you can control those three expense categories, then you can really kind of win the game. And so the most important thing with my move was affordable housing.

Grant Sabatier:
It's important to mention that I'm already financially independent. And so I became financially independent in 2015 and so I've had a pretty solid market since then. My investments have done well. So now I have more than enough money, so I'm able to hedge in that way. I think it certainly would be more difficult if I had started my financial independence journey in New York City. I had a lot of advantages to doing it in Chicago, which is writ large, more affordable. But because I'm already financially independent, I have more advantages.

Grant Sabatier:
But with that being said, the past few years, I never spend with my wife more than $50,000 a year. I'm on pace based on the way I've set up my life to probably spend in the $45,000, $48,000 range in 2019 in New York City.

Bobbi Rebell:
You mentioned that people have questioned this decision, including me. Do you feel that you've had to kind of defend it as part of the FIRE movement?

Grant Sabatier:
Oh, definitely. I think there's a little bit of a judgment inherent in some of the community and to me FIRE, it can really mean whatever you want it to mean and that's the beautiful thing about it. It's what kind of life do you want to live is the most important question. And then the second question is okay, how much money do you need to live that life?

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Grant Sabatier:
I think the lesson is that you have so much more control. I mean, money really only matters if it helps you live a life that you love. I think that that idea is so central to money. And if you're not happy with your life, if you're stressed out and you're paying too much rent, you have the ability to move to a different neighborhood, get a roommate for a while to downsize.

Grant Sabatier:
I mean, when I was becoming financially independent in Chicago, I moved from a $1,500 a month apartment to an $800 a month apartment and yes, it was smaller. Yes it was crappier. But I was able to sleep better at night because I knew I was investing that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's to your everyday money tip and this could apply to small items or to big decisions. And one thing I liked in your book, as you do a lot of math and you have a special way of calculating purchases or things you're considering buying that can really illustrate the impact of different choices. Go for it.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah. So in the book, in one of the chapters, Is it Worth it, I outline 11 questions that you can ask yourself. If you go to financialfreedom book.com, you can download these 11 questions, keep them on your phone. You can print them out. And the questions are built around helping you figure out is it worth buying. And some of the trade offs that are in the book that you can calculate are how much of your life did you trade for this purchase? And one of those things, we can go to a car example, a $40,000 car if you're making $20 per hour after you factor in taxes and commuting time, it's gonna take you 2000 hours, an entire year of your life to afford that car. And on the flip side, you also lose the potential of that $40,000 to grow, which is even more profound.

Grant Sabatier:
And one of the things that I found, because I was interested in buying a $40,000 car, is that I would actually have to work almost six years longer in the future in order to afford that car because of the lost opportunity of not investing that money.

Grant Sabatier:
The best way to save money is just not to spend it because there's kind of, I call it the net effective spending, where whenever you buy anything, not only are you trading the time that you spent to make that money, but you're also trading the ability for that money to grow and the freedom that it buys you in the future. And that's kind of a mindset shift because I actually figured out that every $100 that I would spend, you know you go out to a nice meal and have a couple of drinks with your partner or with a friend and you know, say you spend $100. I figured out that I'd actually have to work four more days in the future in order to afford $100 purchase.

Grant Sabatier:
And so every time I spent $100, I was sacrificing for days of future freedom. And I literally went around and I have a calculator that I built called the Financial Freedom Calculator at financialfreedombook.com where you can put in all your own numbers and it'll tell you whether it's a $5 cup of coffee or a $40,000 car. It'll tell you in your own life how much freedom, how much time you're actually trading for that purchase.

Bobbi Rebell:
One are the things that I love about your book is all of the tools that it has and the different links. So it's kind of like the book will live on beyond the printed book, although some people will listen to it and read it on electronic books. But I love those tools because it makes it very granular and very specific and user friendly. Tell us a little bit more about the book and where people can find more about you and all your social channels grant. We love to follow you.

Grant Sabatier:
Yeah, so financialfreedombook.com is the best place to learn about the book. On the book website you can learn all about the book. You can also use all the tools and the book for free before you even buy the book. So there are nine calculators on there. They all work on your phone. I already have people who've read the book and they've bookmarked them and they're going into the store and they're using the calculators, which is super cool. So financialfreedombook.com. It's available wherever books are sold. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, your favorite local book seller. So I guess just go check it out. It's a bright blue cover with a bird on the front.

Grant Sabatier:
Social channels, you should check out the book Instagram account that I just launched. You can follow me around the world. I'm going to be visiting 40 different cities this spring and 17 countries in the fall so @financialfreedom on Instagram. And then hit me up, millennialmoney.com is my website. At millennialmoney on Twitter, those are the best ways to reach me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. And I also love your new book trailer. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes as well. So thank you Grant.

Grant Sabatier:
Thank you Bobbi. This is a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so glad we were able to talk about those calculators. They are a good thing in this case.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one. I'm not always a huge fan of big budgets and counting up every dollar that you spend because it can feel so restrictive and you feel deprived. Almost like being on a diet. It is kind of like being on a money diet. And no one's going to feel good about that. And when you feel bad, at a certain point you're going to reach your breaking point and that's going to be the edge. You're going to fall off the bandwagon just like you do with the food diet. And hopefully as we get through January, we won't be falling off the bandwagon with all of our goals. We're all working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, taking the time however, to use a calculator like the ones that grant has put together to figure out the relationship between your purchases and their true cost and your life can totally change your mindset. I remember when Starbucks started putting calorie counts on the food in that counter, all those yummy cookies and goodies and stuff. So I love this yellow icing lemon cake. They have it there still in many of these Starbucks. I'm still obsessed with them as you can tell, but I don't really get them anymore because even though I always knew they were high calorie, I didn't really see the number. It didn't really register with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then they put the calories there. It's over 400 calories for this little slice of cake, which is not going to fill you up. And that visual, that number, calculating the percentage of that, of the number of calories that I'm supposed to eat per day and knowing what a high percentage was going to go to something that really didn't give me that much bang for my calorie buck really motivated me to change my behavior. I'm far from perfect when it comes to choosing the snacks, but I am more likely now to go for a protein box where it may not have the absolute lowest calories, but I know at least I'm going to get some nutrition for my choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it's the same way when it comes to money. When you really calculate the true cost as Grant points out, it helps.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number Twitter, do not get caught up in labels and trends to the point where you don't do what you want to do. Grant is managing New York City on his own terms, but he's honest. There are places that he could live where he would reach his financial goals faster and without having to watch his finances as tightly, but he is putting his life first.

Bobbi Rebell:
Never live your life backwards or for someone else's idea of what they think you should be doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you Grant. So happy for all he has achieved including his first book, Financial Freedom, a Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need. Go order it now. As an author, guys, I have to stress buying it on preorder really makes a difference at hitting the bestseller lists and all that comes with it. So if you like Grant and you think you're going to like the book, go right now and preorder it so you get it right when it comes out and you also help Grant a little bit in the process as they say.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to have a link for it in the show notes as well, and also meaningful you. Be in touch. BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter and our email address is hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Grant Sabatier for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Big cities have a lot to offer- but can be expensive. Co-host Grant Sabatier, creator of Millennnial Money and author of the new book “Financial Freedom. A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” recently moved to New York City despite the costs. He shares his three biggest tips to making it work for your financial grownup money goals, and still live life to the fullest.

Here are 3 tips for expensive city living

• How you can plan for the big fixed expenses

• Why you should balance the convenience of prepped vs non-prepped items

• The importance of getting out of the city

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Check out the book trailer here

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, the blogger behind The Fiscal Femme website, quit her high paying investment banking job- but spent money as if nothing had changed. The numbers quickly caught up with her, and she quickly learned to be a Financial Grownup. 

In Ashley's money story you will learn:

• The long hours as an Investment Banker was wearing on her

• After receiving a huge bonus she leaves for a job in finance that is less stressful

• How having more free time isn't always so great for your bank account

In Ashley’s money lesson you will learn:

• How the price of a daily latte was affecting her annually

• How talking about money with friends can be helpful for your money goals

• Creative ways to save your money

In Ashley's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why it's important to make mistakes and to not give up when things aren't perfect

• Why writing down our expenses is helpful

• Purchasing unnecessary things daily can add up when calculated annually

In My Take you will learn:

• If you spent money you regret over the holidays, try to return stuff

• Do a latte assessment

Episode Links -

Ashley's book The 30-Day Money Cleanse

Listen to Lauren Smith Brody's Financial Grownup Episode

David Bach's book Smart Women Finish Rich

Ramit Sethi's book I Will Teach You to Be Rich

Check out Ashley's website -

The Fiscal Femme

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Ashley Gerstley:
I just remember looking at my bank account and seeing that my bonus was now $10,000. I think it was over the course of a couple of months that I had just, including my new salary, had just bled through this bonus that I had. I saw that that pace was really unsustainable.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to 2019. We have the perfect episode to get us all on track to be better financial grownups in the new year. Our guest is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, also known as the Fiscal Femme. She just came out with her first book, The 30-Day Money Cleanse: Take Control of Your Finances, Manage Your Spending, and De-Stress Your Money for Good. My favorite part is that she makes sure to include stress, because paying attention to your money can be stressful.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are new, welcome, welcome, welcome, and of course, welcome back to our regulates. We keep the episodes here short, but of course feel free to binge if you have a little extra time. We have a great library of money stories and tips from high achievers like Ashley. If you have the time, enjoy a few. And don't forget to subscribe. Automate your podcasts like your automate your bills, your money. All systems are all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
To Ashley now. Ashley and I met through our mutual friend and fellow financial grownup, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester. Strongly encourage all of you to check out her episode of The Financial Grownup podcast. Like Lauren, Ashley is all about balance and making sure that if there's one thing that your money buys you, it is having a life. Workaholics, we're coming for you. Here is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Ashley Feinstein Gerstley. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book coming out in the new year for 2019, The 30-Day Money Cleanse: Take Control of Your Finances, Manage Your Spending, and De-Stress Your Money for Good. I think we all need that in the new year.

Ashley Gerstley:
That is exactly why I wrote it. I needed it myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a very welcoming book. It's got a very healthy-looking, but also it looks like it's going to taste good too, green shake. I'm very skeptical of the green juice thing. I know they're supposed to be good for you, but they usually taste really bad. This one looks like it's going to taste really good.

Ashley Gerstley:
It has a creamy green look.

Bobbi Rebell:
It has a creamy green look and a very pretty blue stirrer with a dollar sign. Good job to the graphics team.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You started out as an investment banker making very nice money. You were burning out, though. Let's just be real. This was not an easy job. But you held on for the big bonus. Tell us your money story.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. I studied finance in college, then went on to be an investment banker. Great experience, learned a ton, but I was burning out, working really long hours, not any time for my life or friends, family, health. I went in knowing that I would quit after my second year, go through my two-year program and move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, for people that don't know how that works, how does that work?

Ashley Gerstley:
Typically, you get a bonus each year. When people leave, they leave after their bonus, because they work so hard during the year, and it's a large portion of their compensation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like what percentage? People may not be familiar with this world.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yeah, it depends on the year and it depends on your performance and how far ... Sometimes some people in your class can get 100% of their salary as their bonus, and then others get zero or 10%. It really varies, and it's very stressful waiting to find that number, because it can make such a big difference in your life, and you've given so much and have no idea what you're going to get.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you get your bonus, which was how much? And how old were you?

Ashley Gerstley:
I was 25, and it was $70,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is huge. But then the taxman does come, to be fair.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, and it ends up being more like 35,000 when it gets to your bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So now you've downsized. You're going to have a job in finance that's less stressful but less money, but you finally have time for your friends and family and to do all the stuff you weren't doing because you were working.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. I was so excited. I moved to a corporate finance job where I had a 9:00 to 6:00 schedule. Every day I got out at 6:00, when before I would say on average it was 10:00 to midnight. The hard part was not knowing. You couldn't make plans. So it was so fun to know, oh, I can make dinner plans, I can make drink plans, I can sign up for a French class and sign up for a workout class. So I kind of went overboard and made plans every single night making up for lost time with my friends and family.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was going on with the money at this point? Because you did take a salary cut, correct?

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, and there was definitely ... The bonus was a huge cut at the end of the year too. It's not like I could spend more than I made and make up for it. I hadn't really had to think about my finances at all, because I had so little time to spend my money that when I did spend, it didn't really matter, because I was making a great salary and didn't have time to spend it. This was new territory for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the moment when you realized things were going awry and had to make a change? What was happening?

Ashley Gerstley:
What was happening? All of these plans ... I just remember looking at my bank account and seeing that my bonus was now $10,000. I think it was over the course of a couple of months that I had just, including my new salary, had just bled through this bonus that I had. I saw that that pace was really unsustainable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then what happened?

Ashley Gerstley:
What happened? I thought about it. Okay, what are my options? I can go back to my investment banking job, because that worked for me financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you would earn more.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, I would earn more. I would get those big bonuses. I wouldn't have time to spend it. It would be no money problems there. But I didn't want to. I loved this new lifestyle. I loved walking outside when it was sunny out and doing things and volunteering and all of those great things. I decided I needed to figure it out and become a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you actually do? What changed?

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. Like any type A person, I bought a bunch of books and started just devouring articles. One of the ones that I remember making a big difference to me was Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach. Ramit Sethi, I read I Will Teach You to Be Rich, and that was really helpful when I was getting started with investing. Some of the things I did ... found so simple. Writing down what I spent, actually spending time at all looking at my money.

Ashley Gerstley:
One of the things I found was that a lot of my everyday expenses were adding up to a ton over the course of a month or a year, and they weren't even that important to me. A lot of my spending was just on automatic, it's what other people did, it was out of habit, and it wasn't even bringing me joy. For example, shopping. I felt like shopping was something that I should love to do, people seemed like like it, walking around stores, and I didn't enjoy it. Things I didn't even need became things that I had to have once I walked around the store.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners?

Ashley Gerstley:
When I became a financial grownup, when I looked at what I was spending and aligned it with what was most important to me, I was able to save a lot more money and feel like my lifestyle was getting bigger. I was getting a $4.30 latte every day, and now I know it's a lot more money. The prices have gone up. But when I saw that that was over $1,600 annually, I realigned that, or reallocated that towards something that was more important. I decided, I want to take a trip. It was something that I thought I couldn't do at the time. But that amount of money could just move over to something that made me happier. That's one example.

Ashley Gerstley:
A big repercussion of not talking about money with our friends and family is that they can't support us in our goals. One of my best friends didn't know that this was something that I was doing, and I was trying to save money and reallocate my money with my values. They might encourage me to do things that sabotage my goals. And so brainstorming with friends, okay, maybe we're going to dinner every week, what do we value about this time? Is it the time together? Is it trying new foods? Is it going to a cool new place? And then honoring those things that are most important, and then letting go of the things that aren't about it. That might mean, you know what, we want to drink really good wine. This is me. I'd rather eat at home and not have to pay the markup, and drink nicer wine. So creative ways that look different for each of us to honor what's most important to us about an experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's do your everyday money tip. I like this because this also has to do with kind of a celebration.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, making money fun and more of a game. One of my favorite money tips is to have money parties, because what often happens is, we don't dedicate time to our money or show our money any love. Our money to-dos or checking in on our expenses or finally rolling over that 401(k) kind of hang over our head and stress us out. If we don't create time, we're never going to have time to do it, so I recommend having a biweekly or even monthly time in the calendar to check in and do all of those financial to-dos.

Ashley Gerstley:
And make it fun. I call it a party for a reason. We want to incorporate things that will make it fun for us, whether that's having our favorite beverage, putting on music, getting cozy in PJs. Trying things out, seeing what works, and of course, if it's not fun, try something else, and then rewarding ourselves when we actually have our money party by going out with friends. If you have a money party with your friends, all go out together after. If you're having a money party with your partner, making it part of date night, and either having ... One of my clients has a nice steak after their money party, or ice cream during their money party, to make it more fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever works. That brings us to talking more about your book, because one of the many things I like about it is the inspiring quotes that you have. For example, "Too many people spend ..." This is a classic quote. Everyone quotes this, but it never gets old. "Too many people spend they earned to buy things they don't want to impress people that they don't like." It sounds like you really got away from that when you had this sort of change, going back to your money story. This really all comes together in your book.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. It's so ironic, right, that we would ... I think so often we're quote-unquote "treating ourselves" at the expense of what we actually want, which-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We're told we should love, for example, a day at the spa, but maybe we don't. Maybe we'd rather go to, I don't know, on a trip, like you said, to some adventure. Maybe we don't want to just sit on the beach during vacation. Whatever it is, we have these ideas put forth by our friends, and frankly by businesses that push us to do things we may not really actually want to do.

Ashley Gerstley:
Right. That's a whole other topic, is ... For example, in my shopping example, if we're in a store walking around, we're just giving companies the chance to sell us things that we didn't even know we needed.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are your three grownup money tips for the new year from this book that people can follow?

Ashley Gerstley:
Money tips for the new year. One of the biggest New Year's mistakes, and I think this is financial goals or otherwise, is that we give up as soon as we're not perfect. So I think understanding and getting okay with having mistakes or bumps in the road in our journey is really important, because one of the trickiest, sneakiest ways that we cheat ourselves is giving up as soon as we're not perfect. That's really where the learning is. I would say definitely set out those goals with that in mind.

Ashley Gerstley:
Another tip, write it down like I did. It sounds so simple, but magical things happen when we become aware.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I just told this to a friend last night who emailed me and she said she's feeling overwhelmed by her money. She has, for example, retirement accounts in different places, but she doesn't know where. I said, "Just write everything down. Go through your papers, write down what you have, and you'll feel better just knowing it, just knowing the numbers, whatever they are."

Ashley Gerstley:
Definitely. Then another thing I think is helpful, and was helpful for me in my money journey, was just looking at numbers annually. Once you write them down, what is that cost annually? Because sometimes the little expenses seem ... And I hear it a lot. "Oh, I can't afford to go on a vacation. I really want to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your latte example is kind of on it. I mean, that make sense, because that was your vacation money.

Ashley Gerstley:
Right. And lunch is another big one. Spending $15 dollars a day on lunch adds up to thousands of dollars a year.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where people can learn more about you and the 30-day money cleanse.

Ashley Gerstley:
On my website, thefiscalfemme.com, F-I-S-C-A-L, F-E-M-M-E dot com, and on social media, on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, @thefiscalfemme.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Ashley.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Loved that last bit about spending just because you're in the store. You know we've all done that. Financial grownup tip number one. If you spent money you regret over the holidays, try to return stuff. If you can't get the money back, get a store credit, and if possible, use it right away on something you do want. If you keep it, create a system so you don't lose it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than finding an expired gift card. Been there.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, if you do find an expired gift card, still go to the store and ask if they're going to honor it anyway. Very often they will, because first of all, it creates goodwill. It makes you feel good as a customer and like them. Also, if you do spend it, you're going to be going back into the store or back online to your website, and you're going to reestablish the habit of shopping at the store, and odds are, you're probably going to spend more than what is on that gift card.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Do a latte assessment. Ashley talked about lattes and lunches. We all don't want to hear it, I don't, but if we're being honest, we do it too much. For example, if you have the Starbucks app, just pull up how much you spent there in 2018 and be aware, and then make the decision that is best for you. I definitely spent too much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. We are moving into our second year, and more than ever, hearing from you really matters. Please leave a review, DM us feedback on the show, whatever works for you. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and our email is hello@financialgrownup.com. And of course, thanks to Ashley Feinstein Gerstley for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Taxes are never fun but millions of Americans may pay less for 2018. David Rae CFP® joins Bobbi for a breakdown of what changes matter and specific things Financial Grownups can do to make sure they are on track for when it is time to turn in their returns this spring. 

Here are 5 tips for year end tax planning

• Max out your retirement accounts

• Set up the Right Retirement Plan for your business

• Strategically Bunch your Tax Deductions

• Consider Doner-Advised Funds

• Tax-Loss Harvesting

Wealth coach Adeola Omole got a do-over she didn’t want when she got laid off a second time- but by being financially prepared she was able to land on her feet. The author of “7 Steps to get out of Debt and Build Wealth” shares her story of how she came out stronger the second time around. 

In Adeola's money story you will learn:

• How she prepared herself for a second lay-off

• What the Super-Charged Financial Strategy is and how it helped her to pay off $70,000 in consumer debt in less than 3 years

• Why you should negotiate interest rate reductions

In Adeola’s money lesson you will learn:

• What she did to layoff proof her life

• Why debt is the only thing that holds you back from living the life you want

In Adeola's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What it means to triple-check your way to wealth and why it's important

In My Take you will learn:

• Why no ask is too great when negotiating interest rate reductions

• Why it's so important to pay attention to what's going on in your industry on an economic level

Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away- all you have to do it DM me your takeaway from this episode- bobbirebell1 on instagram bobbirebell on twitter or email us at hello@financialgrownup.com

Episode Links:

Check out Adeola's website - https://www.adeolaomole.com/

Adeola's book 7 Steps to Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth

Follow Adeola!

• Instagram

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Adeola Amole:
Because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I have these rental properties that are cashflow positive, I have money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. It's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. No matter how much we talk about being ready for something like a layoff who really is? Right? For today's guest, wealth coach, author, social worker and lawyer, Adeola Amole, getting laid off for the second time still caught her off-guard even though the signs were all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
This time she was a lot better prepared and I think you are going to be very interested in what she did to layoff-proof her life. It was not just having an emergency fund, although that also matters a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy holidays to everyone and special welcome to our newest listeners. So glad you found us. We keep the episodes on the short side, about 15 minutes, with the idea that you can stack a few together to fill the time that you have to listen. Feel free to listen to a few episodes at a time if that's what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get back to Adeola. She is also the author of a really readable book and I don't take that lightly because it is true to the title 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth in that she really walks us through exactly what to do. Action steps, not just theories. She comes from experience as you will hear in our interview. Here is Adeola Amole.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adeola Amole. You are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adeola Amole:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
We practiced saying your name because I am terrible at pronunciation. I just want to say for people curious about the name Adeola Amole it is of Nigerian origin. I just learned this. It means crown of wealth, which we love, so welcome.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you. Yeah. No. I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth. You are a money coach but by trade your background is as a lawyer and you have a graduate degree in social work. You know a lot about a lot of things.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you for that. I like to think that I'm a person who just wants to learn and I love learning about so many different things as my background shows. Now I'm living my passion. This wealth coaching thing is right up my alley. I also am able to still use the legal background as well as the social work background. It marries brilliantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to your money story. It has to do with the art of the do-over. Let's call it that. Go for it.

Adeola Amole:
I got laid off and I literally had no backup plan, no clue how to do it. Long story short, I figured out a strategy. I call it the Super-Charged Financial Strategy. I figured out how to pay it all off and luckily for me [crosstalk 00:03:30]

Bobbi Rebell:
We should say you had quite a bit ... You had $70,000 in consumer debt when you suddenly had no income of your own and your husband had a smaller income. You had the larger income.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. You are absolutely correct. $70,000 was paid off in the first three years of the plan. Just shy of three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the plan? When you say the plan what is the plan?

Adeola Amole:
The Super-Charged Financial Strategy is a two-part plan. The first part of the strategy I call it the Super-Charged Debt Repayment Plan and that literally is the snowball method on super-charged. Hence, the fact that I call it the Super-Charged Plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would pay but you would also negotiate a lot with the credit card companies.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. I would negotiate like crazy. This is where the legal background truly did pay off because I literally knew ... I setup the system for myself and I knew exactly what processes I would have to use. If I didn't get what I wanted from the rep I would just ask to speak with a manager and usually got what I wanted. I knew how to negotiate myself to as low a rate as possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about this is you at times went for the 8% or 9% but you even went for 0% sometimes. You can ask for that. It's a little bit bold, you won't always succeed, but you can ask for 0%.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. It works. It helps you crush that debt faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You had the first layoff. You learned from the idea of not being prepared. Then life goes on, you get a new job, the recession, we move past the recession, past that 18 months of being unemployed, things are good, you now have a child, your husband is home now taking care of the child. What happens next?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. To add onto that story we have a child but now we have two rental properties. We have money in the markets. We built up assets after having paid off the $70,000 consumer debt. Now things are looking fabulous, my husband is a stay-at-home dad. He's been with our son for four years.

Adeola Amole:
Then we get pregnant with a second child but I didn't tell my employer this because most women know this, first trimester you just stay hush hush until you go into the second trimester. Long story short, I get laid off again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you had any idea this was coming?

Adeola Amole:
No. Well, I shouldn't say no. What happened is I worked in an industry where it was really contingent on oil prices. Oil prices had just crashed. This was I believe last quarter of 2014. I was in a position where we got rumors as to, "Things aren't looking so good. Oil is going down." People talked about it but no one knew that it was going to happen. We had suspicions but obviously I didn't think I was going to be one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel looking back you had a sense of denial maybe about it?

Adeola Amole:
Absolutely. Absolutely. However, I have to tell you because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I had these rental properties that were cashflow positive. I had money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. What happens?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. I'm laid off. My employer at the time doesn't know that I'm three months pregnant. I should have been absolutely terrified but I wasn't because, as I said, we set ourselves up. We had cashflow in properties. We had investment properties.

Adeola Amole:
My husband and I were figuring out what to do next and we had five months to think about it. Guess what? There was money to take care of everything. We had a 12 month emergency plan. It was really my financial do-over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. What is your advice for our listeners? What's the takeaway here?

Adeola Amole:
The biggest takeaway is, guys, plan for these what ifs. These what ifs it's not if they're going to happen. It's when they're going to happen. It's best to just put a plan of action in place. Crush that debt. Like get it off your plate, get it off your balance sheet.

Adeola Amole:
At the end of the day, that's what's holding you back from really creating the life that you want to live. If you get that out of the way you can truly start planning where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You brought with you a great everyday money tip that's something we kind of all should know but we just ... I don't do it. I totally take the short way and I'm sure I've made so many bad decisions, I know I have, because of it. Teach us.

Adeola Amole:
You're awesome. The tip that I have is triple-check your way to wealth. It's a really simple tip and it's something that you can totally use today and it means that when you're looking for any item, like any big ticket item, even a little ticket item, always at least refer to three merchants or three service providers for pricing and also for service. This is boiling down to people as well as prices. I think it matters to work with good people. I always want to work with good people. I always want to get the best prices.

Adeola Amole:
I recently had some auto body work that I had to do. I was referred to one company and when I called them ... They're a reputable company and I've heard about them so I knew that they were good ... I called the service provider and they set a price that sounded wonky to me. It was like $3800 to get this done. I literally almost lost my mind.

Adeola Amole:
I thought, "Okay, let's just call around" so I called a few other folks, got some references. Long story short, after doing the check I found an incredible company, extremely reputable, used by the best dealerships where I live, and they came up with a price that was just $1000 shy of the price so it was $2800. The people were incredible, they were extremely friendly, and because I'm a lawyer I decided I'm going to negotiate an even better rate.

Adeola Amole:
I spoke with the guy and told him, "Okay, what can we do here? I really want to go with you, I really like you guys. What more can you do for me?" Sure enough he gave me $200 less than it was originally quoted. $2600 and change. Long story short, guys, triple-check your way to wealth. That extra money now can go into my investment portfolio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite go-to source for even finding vendors or people that you can work with? Sometimes it's really hard just to get referrals.

Adeola Amole:
It's the truth. It depends on what it is. In this instance, because it was auto body I've worked with a few companies in the past so I went to the companies I trusted. My husband and I drive Acuras and Hondas. I went to the dealerships, the Acura dealerships that I like and that we've dealt with in the past and I spoke with the guys and said, "Who would you refer?"

Adeola Amole:
They gave me some auto body shops. Then I went to the Honda dealerships, "Who would you refer?" I had a list of a bunch of them. Go to the source. If you're looking for even if it's just furniture and stuff go to the sources. Go to the people you know who have fabulous furniture or go to the companies themselves and just start talking to the people who are working there. Sometimes they'll tell you, "Don't buy it here. Go here."

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an advantage to talking to them in real life versus just calling around or looking at an app?

Adeola Amole:
You know, I think there is. Always that human connection will get you the better referrals and then you can connect with them, right? So they're willing to give you that information. Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think being in person makes a huge difference. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you and your book.

Adeola Amole:
Oh, absolutely. My book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth, guys, it's available everywhere. Go to my website www dot Adeola Amole dot com and there you can choose your retailer of choice because I'm on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books A Million, Indigo, pretty much anywhere you can buy books it's available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much. Social media, where can we follow you?

Adeola Amole:
Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm everywhere but Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm at Adeola Amole B.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This was great.

Adeola Amole:
Aww. Thanks for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one, when it comes to things like cutting your debt no ask is too aggressive when you negotiate for interest rate reductions like Adeola. She went for the 0% interest rate. Kind of surprised me but I'm impressed. While she didn't always get there she sometimes did so why not ask?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, listen to the whispers at work. Pay attention to the larger macro economic climate and what's going on in your industry. Adeola in her gut knew that there was a good chance she was going to get laid off but she was still surprised. Financially, though, with her multiple and largely passive income streams she was ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, everyone. Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away. All you have to do is DM me your takeaway from this episode on any of the social channels. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, or if you prefer email you can email me at Hello at Financial Grownup dot com. Big thanks to Adeola Amole for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Technology can’t really be unplugged, so the best solution is the make it work for us as Humans. Back to Human author Dan Schawbel joins Bobbi Rebell as co-host on this special Financial Grownup Guide. They discuss 5 specific actionable tips to using technology to enhance and humanize the role of our devices in our daily lives. 

• Specific ways to eliminate tech driven distractions

• How to manage devices and stay focused in meetings

• How to use apps to learn and then control your time online.

• How to most effectively use video conferencing

• The best ways to delegate unwanted tasks to technology so you can focus on being more human

Episode Links:

Dan's book Back to Human

Dan's book Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Dan’s podcast 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Guide, five ways to make technology more human, with special guest cohost, Back to Human author, Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi everyone, welcome to a new Financial Grownup Guide. These are short episodes meant to give us all some actionable life tips to be a little bit more grownup. If you are looking for what we now call classic episodes with money stories and everyday money tips from high achievers, they drop on Mondays and Thursdays. We have a library of over 100 and growing. So do check them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about technology. So many of us are feeling tech overload these days. At first, I had the idea to do a list of tips for unplugging. But you know what? I'm not sure if that's the best thing, or ever realistic. What we really need to do is just make technology work for us. So I recruited Dan Schawbel, he literally wrote a book about this called Back to Human, to get some tips about how we can get our technology to help us be a little more human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, thanks for co-hosting this special episode with me.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is the thing Dan, we need to learn to make tech more human in the new year because we cannot get rid of technology. We're over that whole concept. But yet we have to make it work for us as humans because of course you are the author of Back to Human. So you're here to guide us. So thanks for joining me.

Dan Schawbel:
Happy to be here as your cohost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about why this topic is so important to you, you basically wrote ... that's a lot of what the book Back to Human is.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. Technology has created the illusion of connection when in reality, our overuse and misuse of it has created a sense of isolation, loneliness, disengagement and lower team and organizational commitment. The way the workplace has changed now versus years ago is more people working remote, a third of the global workforce does. Yet 2/3 are disengaged. And you can be isolated in a physical space whether it's a corporate office. You can be isolated in the subway in New York City, where we both live, you can be isolated while you're walking down the street because people are looking and spending more time on devices than they are looking at a human being. And so I think this is important because as an introvert, as someone whose built a lot of connections digitally, I realize that it was very isolating and that the best way to use technology is to use it as a bridge to human connection. Let it get you to physical spaces, but be attentive, be respectful, and focus on the human to human communication because those relationships are what are gonna matter for you for the rest of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, I love that you're also realistic, that we can't completely unplug. It is what it is.

Dan Schawbel:
It is what it is. I think it's how, when, and where you use it. I interviewed 100 top young leaders and they say technology is a double-edged sword. It can be good or bad. And I think texting's someone that there's a meeting in five minutes or 10 minutes is appropriate but if you're in an argument with your coworker that's not gonna be solved through text and it's actually gonna make it worse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So Dan you brought with you five ways that we can make tech more human. Number one, eliminate distractions in your workplace, technology distractions.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. By watching TV, by having your iPad out, by looking at a laptop, if you're always doing that all day you're gonna feel trapped, you're gonna feel isolated from those around you. So be smart about what's in front of you and make sure that you take breaks because otherwise if you don't have a tech detox it's gonna be bad for your health and relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you pointed out take breaks because so many workspaces now have screens all around us, whether it's television, with programming and content going on, or screens that just have corporate messaging. We screens everywhere. Not to mention our own devices, our phone, our iPad, our computer. So you make a great point that we need to walk away a little.

Dan Schawbel:
Everyone needs a break. Especially in today's society, everyone's always on. Not having your phone is the new vacation, the average work week in America is 47 hours a week but people bring their devices home with them and on weekends. So we're just overworked, we're burned out and that's why there's a whole backlash now globally on hours work. Finland, UK they're fighting for four day work week. In France they have the right to disconnect. In Japan, every citizen gets Monday mornings off. So we're-

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Dan Schawbel:
The technology's made us always work and now all these countries are saying, hey we need to do something about this. This is bad for the population's health.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your second tip actually goes to that point because not only are the devices encroaching on our personal time, they're encroaching on our meeting time because you'll be in a meeting and people are sometimes sitting there kind of looking at you but also on their screens. Which is like why bother even having this meeting? So what's your second tip?

Dan Schawbel:
Put your devices in the middle of the table when you're in a meeting. People send an average of five texts within a meeting. And so they're not being respectful for the people who are speaking, they're unable to collaborate, and I think it's part of the reason why meetings are dysfunctional and they last too long because people are physically there but not mentally, emotionally there. And so they're unable to contribute, collaborate, and it's not only disrespectful but what's the point in even being in the meeting in the first place if you're texting and emailing people who aren't even at that meeting?

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan, number three, so apropo, because there's so many apps on our phones that are distracting us but we actually have some apps that can do some good.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The best way to take stock of how you're spending your time using technology is to use Moment app or rescuetime.com and they'll help you better understand how you're spending your time on apps and websites. And if you see that you're spending too much time on a certain app or a website, it's an indicator that you might wanna reallocate that time to more personal communication.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one way to be a little more personal in your communication, but also use technology, and this is number four, you wanna talk to us about video conferencing, because you can get a lot more from that. It's not the same as in person but it's a step in the right direction, right?

Dan Schawbel:
That's one of the great inventions of the past few decades is video conferencing because most communication is nonverbal and video conferencing allows you to not just hear someone but actually see them and how they express their emotions. And as a result you feel like you have a stronger relationship with them and you can better understand the message they're trying to get across.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite of your five tips is this one, the final one, which has to to do with using technology for the things that you can really outsource and technology is better at.

Dan Schawbel:
Let technology remove the work that you don't even wanna do. All that routine work, like making sure that you and your coworker or friend are going to the same event or birthday party, conference room at the same time so that you can be more thoughtful about the time you're spending with them when you're at that event, when you're in the conference room or celebrating someone's birthday party. And so I think that calendars and chat box and some of these newer technologies can remove the logistical work from what you have to do on a daily basis so you can spend more time doing the face to face.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good tips. Thank you so much Dan. And the final tip, of course, is to read your book, Back to Human because it has so many more incredibly ways to optimize the way that you interact with technology so it's actually supporting your life goals and making your life better and not having all of these negative effects that so many of us are fighting back against. So thank you Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks everyone for joining us. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss anymore upcoming Financial Grownup Guides. I am very excited about some of the ones that we have planned and be in touch on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 on twitter at BobbiRebell, and of course you can always email us, we are at hello@financialgrownup.com so glad you joined us in investing in getting a little bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

Reality TV can be a job- but it often doesn’t pay like one. To film The Bachelorette and later Bachelor in Paradise Derek Peth had to take a break from his paying job in commercial banking. That’s where his emergency fund savings became the star of the show. 

Derek's money story:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so glad that you're here and so many of your fans are going to be tuning are going to be blown away by what they learn about you, because you're so well known as one of the ... first of all you were on The Bachelor on the JoJo season.

Derek Peth:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did not apparently live happily ever after with her. But you went on to more success on Bachelor in Paradise season four. And you even now continue a side hustle, which we'll talk about, host a podcast about Bachelor in Paradise and The Bachelor. But we're here because, and this got by the way this announcement of what you're doing now got over 16 thousand likes on Instagram. We're here to talk about what you do for a living right now, which is you are in the financial services sector. You are a Senior Vice President at Laurel Road. So congratulations on this career path as well.

Derek Peth:
Thank you. This is the original career path. Speaking of side hustle, I think that's kind of what The Bachelor became for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Derek Peth:
Hey, more opportunities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And you're stilling doing that. We're going to circle back to that, but I want to talk about your money story because what you're going to share with us is something that is, on the one hand unique to you and the people that are on reality TV shows, but also very relatable to almost anyone that has ever dreamed of taking a break from their quote, real career, their everyday job. And asking our boss for a sabbatical so that they can do something, maybe a dream, maybe an opportunity for an interesting experience. Maybe financial opportunity down the road. But that's what happened to you. You were working, all of how many years ago? Four years ago maybe?

Derek Peth:
Yeah I think it was about four-ish years ago. I was working in commercial banking as a sales role down in Florida at the time. And actually it's a funny story how it all originally happened because I wasn't ready for it. I didn't signup or anything, I was very focused on my career, and I thought it was a prank call from a radio station at first. I made them email me, and I researched them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. How did they find you? I just assumed people apply to be on these shows. You just get this call.

Derek Peth:
I know. My sister signed me up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Derek Peth:
I didn't figure it out until three weeks later when finally I ... because I had been kind of quiet about it and then finally I was like, "Hey did you happen to sign me up for The Bachelor ever?" And boom. There we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
She didn't tell you? Oh my gosh.

Derek Peth:
No. Her friends watch the show and it was like they all got around the computer and sent my photos and information in. But when I started thinking about this, it was like this is one of those opportunities that are once in a lifetime that can change the course of your life completely. And luckily, my mom has put self-help books in front of me my whole life, and I've been very, always interested in making sure that things were setup so that ... I ran some marketing businesses on the side when I was younger. I had a nice foundation of rental income incoming constantly that put me in a situation where I was like, "You know what? I don't necessarily need to have this job." While I enjoy what I'm doing, and I have a great relationship with my boss at the time. He really tried and he was like, "Listen, you're a sales role."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well what happened? Can you go in and say, "Hey I'm going to be on a reality TV show can I have a sabbatical of I don't know how long?" How does it work?

Derek Peth:
Exactly. I called him up. I said, "Hey I really need to have a side conversation that needs to be pretty quiet because there's some legal matters." And he was freaked out so he called me right away. But the legal matter was that I couldn't really discuss what the situation was with a bunch of people. And I just said, "I don't know. It could be one week that I'm gone, it could be eight weeks, 10 weeks." That's how long they tape for, and you have no idea going in. He went back and he reached out to HR and they tried to figure something out, but in the end, the response was basically, "This is a little too much of an ask right now, Derek. The only option is, if you want to do this you have to leave and quit, or you can keep working here. And call us back afterwards." The truth is, there's no chance on us just putting and eight week paused on your role.

Derek Peth:
Like you said, I saw it as a sabbatical of sorts, because there was that open end coming back, which I built from working by butt off in my job. And I built that foundation that I could really use to support my living without a normal income by working my butt off on the side. And again, I think there's a lesson there that really gives you the opportunity to do some unique and different things sometimes in life that we all dream and talk about, but when you're forcing yourself into the bare minimums, that's where I think, like I said, luckily I've had some of that literature in front of me my whole life and it was just pounded in my head, "Make sure you have enough income to live for a full year with what you're doing."

Bobbi Rebell:
You had a full year of income saved?

Derek Peth:
I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do people support themselves on these shows? Do you get paid to be on, do you get paid more if you last longer on the show? How does it work?

Derek Peth:
Some of those work that way. The actual Bachelor, Bachelorette, the first one there's no income from it, but the second show that I did that you talked about, it works that way where it's a per day payment situation. And so, it depends on what show you're talking about. Obviously, as we both know, the Instagram ad game has become I think the goal for a lot of people after that. And that's where the supporting themselves, and being a public figure offers some cool opportunities to do some travel where, if you're going and doing speaking somewhere or just doing an event anywhere, a lot of times there's free travel or the event itself, I should say, takes care of the travel and the accommodations. It is a unique situation. It's a little bit different than having to jump on Spirit because you're flying all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
But people going on these shows are not necessarily paid. There are costs involved, and you often lose your income. I don't know that people really understand that.

Derek Peth:
Yes. And that's why a lot of the people end up on the show, I think, are entrepreneurs. When you really think about it, there's business people and some small business owners a lot of the time, and it's because they have the flexibility to do that, they don't have this fear of having to jump of a cliff with their job, because it's scary thing. Not to mention just the nature of the United States these days. I don't know the exact numbers, but the cost of college has quadrupled or more in the last few years, and when you really look at that and compare that to what you come away with, and what you need, we have to have that income in order to just survive, right? Just the environment itself has made it so hard for people to jump out and do anything unique like this without cutting away, and living at home, and dodging their student loans.

Derek’s money lesson:

I think that rule is so important for people to live by. Instead of focusing on how do I get to the next paycheck, you got to focus on a rule, a separate goal. And that maybe 5% of their income for some people, 10% of their income. That's a conversation, especially if there's relationships, there's other situations that come in, but instead of maxing out what you're making, there needs to be savings goal and then a long-term goal of course. One of my favorite sayings is, how do you eat the elephant? One bite at a time. You have your big goal, but then one little step at a time, each month, each week, you're saving that money away, and that's how you, I think, create that foundation to give you the opportunity to go and do some different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also because as much as these kinds of ventures can create opportunity, at the end of the day, you're not an actor.

Derek Peth:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have a normal life to some degree. It will never be quite as normal again, and you're still doing a lot of Bachelor related things, but you have an actual job.

Derek Peth:
There's a few very successful individuals. No different than professional sports. Honestly every aspect of business and any job in and of itself has high performers, and medium as well. But a lot of people in that quote, medium performance, which of course relates to how many Instagram followers you have now. But they really butt their head up against the wall and get sucked into this life with these hopes and aspirations without the understanding that it does take the work no different than your job to do some hustling, to make connections, to call people, to set things up for yourself. They do the bare minimum, and sometimes that's nice for a little while, but I mean, I think the people who have been very successful with taking this opportunity that The Bachelor presents you with and have treated it like a job. You see some of those folks who previously had jobs.

Derek Peth:
I have a great example from my season. Wells, great example. They were high performers in what they were doing already. And they pivoted everything into, all right, this is my new side gig. I can just take the same lesson I learned from working hard and taking care of business in my day-to-day life and apply it to this new opportunity.

Derek's everyday money tip:

My money tip, especially for millennials like myself is, first and foremost, within the marketplace we're in, there's an urgency to refinance your student loans. We ourselves we save over $20 thousand, on average, for people who refinance their loans, when you look at the life of their loans. I think knowing your rate in the first place is a great place to start. A lot of people, a lot of my friends even when I started working at Laurel Road they didn't even know what their rate was. And I started talking to them about the opportunities and they were just mind-blown at how much they could save each year.

I don't mean that facetiously. They were shooting, kicking themselves saying, "Hey, I'm an idiot. I haven't been looking at this. I didn't even know that. Here I am complaining about my income, and I could have saved it just by going online, doing a little bit of research." And to all those millennials out there, or anyone else who's recently gone through school and still has those student loans, go refinance them. There's no cost. It's very quick. I'm going to say, go check out Laurel Road's website because we are, I think, the best at this, but across the board, that's the number one thing we need to be doing.

Financial grownup tip number one:

Emergency funds aren't just for when bad things happen. In this case, a really amazing thing happened, a once in a lifetime opportunity. Literally life-changing experiences, and Derek had the financial resources available to cover up to a year. So when he was on The Bachelorette, not a lot of financial stress. And then even more fun on Bachelor in Paradise. And by the way, did I mention he hosts The Bachelor podcast, which is strangely addicting, even though I don't even know all the people that Derek, and Kay his co-host, are talking about. Don't be judgey. Derek has had a great ride. And I'm not saying that I know anything, or that Derek told me any upcoming projects, maybe when we kept talking after we stopped taping. But you want to stay tuned to what Derek is up to. Follow him on all the socials, and keep tabs on him at Laurel Road.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I joked with Derek about being judgey. We can all get judgey, myself included, about productivity, and joke that if we spend all day watching Netflix, or whatever, on Instagram, on our social media channels, we're not going to be building our businesses, our personal brand empires or whatever our goals are. So yes, we have to be mindful of our time. Go listen to the Laura Vanderkam episode for tips on that, by the way. But you know what, I really enjoyed Derek and his cohost on The Bachelor podcast. And the Bachelor shows are really fund. If that's your thing, enjoy it. Like all indulgences, chocolate, try to keep it under control. Maybe do a Bachelor in Paradise marathon over the holidays with your friends, get it out of your system for a little bit, then be more productive in the new year. Enjoy it. Don't feel bad. It's all good. And then of course, come back and listen to all the good advice here on Financial Grownup to get your finances in order for the new year.

Episode Links:

• Derek’s website - Laurel Road

• The Betchelor podcast

• The Bachelor

• The Bachelorette
  

Follow Derek!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Want to learn more about productivity? Click Here to listen to our episode with "Off the Clock" Author @LauraVanderkam

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After buying an expensive home, Certified Financial Planner David Rae found himself facing an income crunch during the recession. His decision to get a roommate helped him keep the home and stay on track with his financial and lifestyle goals. 

In David's money story you will learn:

-That even CFP's experience money troubles too

-Creative ideas to help alleviate the cost of a home

-Ways to cope with the feeling of failure when financial goals aren't met

-The real reason people can afford big houses

-What David looks for in a roommate!

In David’s money lesson you will learn:

-Financial problems should be dealt with head on

-There are creative ways to cut spending that won't inhibit your lifestyle

In David's everyday money tip you will learn:

-David's favorite credit cards and the perks of each one

-The easiest way David saves money while traveling first class 

-How to prioritize your spending to afford nice vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-Being a financial grownup means keeping on track with your goals, not living a certain lifestyle

-Take action if a financial disaster is coming your way, don't wait for it to go away

EPISODE LINKS

Check out David's website FinancialPlannerLA.com

Follow David!

Instagram: @DavidRaeLA

Linked In: @David Rae, CFP

Twitter: @DavidRaeCFP

Facebook: @DavidRaeCFP

In this Financial Grownup episode we have Certified Financial Planner David Rae as a guest on our show. He talks about decisions he made that make him a Financial Grownup like getting a roommate. He also gives us tips on how we can save money traveling first class. #FinancialGrownup #SaveMoney #Traveling

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

David Rae:
It did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Growing Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown up. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was my friend certified financial planner, David Rae. Even though he felt like he was failing, he was in fact pivoting, very well in fact, to deal with things beyond his control. More on that in a moment. Just wanna thank all of you for your support. We have been doing some new content here, adding in bonus episodes on topics you guys have requested, and the feedback has been amazing. Please keep it coming, DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter and BobbiRebell, and tell me what you think about the changes we've been making, and what kind of topics you want us to be covering. Reviews are great, too if you wanna support the show, and of course, tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk now about about David Rae. He takes being a financial grown up very seriously, and so it was hard, but maybe not too hard to make a decision when the recession hit a decade ago. Here is David Rae.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey David Rae, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.

David Rae:
Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of all the wisdom that you share with so many people. You're quoted very widely in the media, you're on TV all the time, and a lot of it has to do with your expertise being a financial planner, and telling us what to do when we need it in advance of what we need it. And the story that you brought to share with us here on Financial Grown Up I love because it has to do with the fact that you're kind of just like us in that things happen that you can't always control with the economy and the larger environment, but you, even though you're a CFP, still have to deal with them. Tell us your money story.

David Rae:
I did a lot of planning and I went out and bought a very nice and expensive house in LA. This was right before the financial crisis, so I bought my house in early 2007. I thought I got a great deal, I got like $300,000 off the asking price, little did I know that the financial crisis was coming. I got a house that I thought I could afford with my growing income, and when we went into the financial crisis, my income didn't go up as much as it had in the past, and a few years in, it had started to decline actually, and that combined that with real estate values tanking, I had to go back to my financial plan and look at my spending and where I wanted to spend money, and instead of having to cut back on my travel and fun with friends, I decided to get a roommate

David Rae:
And I think that was a really big financial grown up moment because it did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do. And I have a big, nice house, I can have a roommate here. It wasn't like I was sharing a room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about what happened. How do you even start looking for a roommate? How old were you at the time, and you'd been living on your own for how long?

David Rae:
I hadn't been on my own that long. I'd had roommates before I bought the house, so it wasn't like a huge, big deal. It wasn't like I was married with ten kids running around which would make it a lot more difficult, but I was in my mid twenties, I had been a few years in to being a financial planner, and I planned ahead. I could make the payment, I could afford the house, even with the drop in income, but it juts would be tight and really not a fun process. Plus, I was looking at real estate values and they had dropped pretty substantially around the country.

David Rae:
By getting a roommate, I was able to still travel, still have money, and still be able to save for my financial goals, like retirement and all those fun things that a financial planner should be doing. And at the same time, it allowed me to stay in my home because I bought a bigger, more expensive home knowing I would be there for a long time. Since I've bought the house, it's doubled in value, it just had a very nice 30 or 40 percent dip during the financial crisis, like much real estate did during that time. But looking forward, because I kept the house and stuck with it, even when times were tough, I was able to come out ahead with this great investment on my house which if I took the dip out of it, it looks great, my house doubled in value in like 10-11 years, which is a pretty nice return there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because the truth is, as long as you can afford the payments, and you don't fall into a problem situation, it only matters the day that you buy an investment, and the day that you sell it. So even though there, as you say there's this dip, ultimately, it really is just on paper, because you had enough of a financial cushion, and you also made a big lifestyle adjustment.

David Rae:
Absolutely, and you know, most investments, it really does help to have time on your side, and real estate is one of those things as well because so many bailed out. And don't get me wrong, there are people that maybe their house dropped a lot more or they didn't want to live there and there was reasons to sell, or if I was gonna be going into credit card debt or racking up other bills, or not able to pay my mortgage, it would be a different conversation.

David Rae:
But with roommates, I was able to maintain my lifestyle, and then now I don't have roommates. I've since gotten married, and the house is mine and it's been upgraded and all this great stuff. But I weathered the storm, and I think having a plan and facing being a financial grown up really can make you smooth some of these tough times out.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it like looking for a roommate? How did you even do that? Were there a lot of people looking for places to stay more than usual because of what was going on in the larger economy?

David Rae:
You know, I'm in the center of LA, so a lot of people are looking for roommates. Rent is really expensive here, so me renting a room in the house was still a few hundred dollars cheaper rent wise for someone coming to rent a room versus getting their own one bedroom or studio apartment. Plus it was fun, I mean I was in my 20's, so I think a lot of people in their 20's still have roommates, especially in bigger cities, and it was still fun to have because we had game night at the house, and we had people over for American Idol, so it was actually a really nice social thing because I was single and it probably actually aided my social life more than being a hindrance. Like oh my god, my terrible roommates sitting on the couch, you know, the horrible thing that people are probably picturing when they're thinking of getting a roommate or some hobbit that never leaves the house.

David Rae:
I actually had friends living with me, and it was not a problem to find roommates, and over the years I had a few roommates move in, and then the final roommate stayed probably two years after I got married. We just enjoyed having them here, and when they finally moved out, we didn't replace them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the fact that you're not living in absolutes. You didn't say well I am a grown up now, so I must live in this house alone, and it would be very immature to have roommates or whatever, or deal with people judging you. You made a financially responsible decision and it also was kind of fun in the end.

David Rae:
It was fun in the end, and looking ahead to where I'm at financially now as a financial planner, that meant my 401k contributions were still made, my mortgage was still paid, I didn't rack up credit card debt, and that's turned into hundreds of thousands of dollars over that time when I put it into the stock market and let it grow. So it really can make a huge difference when you give it time and let it compound.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners?

David Rae:
Don't ignore financial problems. That's the biggest thing. I could have probably ignored it, and a lot of other people ignore when they're out of work and they don't wanna cut back, or they've gotten a decrease in pay, or they've had an illness. I face it head on, and it really meant that I could brave the storm and come out stronger on the other end. And I had some fun along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and you know what, the other thing is you you didn't have to deprive yourself of things you enjoyed, like travel, so you were able to still do things that were discretionary to some degree. Because sometimes people in that situation, maybe would not have thought to take on a roommate, or chosen not to, and then they just wouldn't have traveled for two years.

David Rae:
And do what's right for you. I mean obviously some other people, you're right, it may be better to just not travel, but that wasn't what I wanted to be doing in my mid 20's when I was single and free and could run around the world and have a great time and I also wanted to have a house and I wanted to save for the future cause I am a financial planner, and I do love saving my money and seeing my net worth grow, which wasn't necessarily happening on paper during the financial crisis when the market was dropping and real estate values were dropping, and my income wasn't doing what I would like it to be doing, or what it's doing today.

David Rae:
But I'm here and I made it through and I was a financial grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were proactive, and that's the important thing. Lets talk about your everyday money tip, because it also has to do with travel and making sure that you can travel the way that you want to travel. You have some tips for us.

David Rae:
Absolutely. My big thing to think about is prioritize what's important to you, cause I see so many people that say they can't afford to travel, but they're driving an expensive car, or they're living in a really expensive house, and that just doesn't leave any money leftover to travel. So prioritize your spending, and for me, one of the biggest ways that I can really travel in style, because I've gotten spoiled and like to fly say first class around the world. I use credit card points and miles to really make that affordable. I'm not gonna be spending $15,000 a ticket like my last trip to Europe would have cost if I paid cash. But i used miles, so I spent like $50 on that, and the way I accrue a ton of miles is I put all of my bills on credit cards, just disclaimer, I pay them off every month, I can afford what I'm spending. And I put them on the credit cards that will get me the most miles.

David Rae:
At Staples and Office Depot I get five points on one of my cards, and I have another card that gives me like four points on dining and other cards give you money on gas and utilities. So finding the cards that will give you the most points, as well as sign up bonuses and status matches. So I have an airline card that helps me have higher status, and I've gotten upgraded like 12 times this year on almost all of my flights from just having status, so that's free, sitting in first or business class. Just for having status. I like free.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like free.

David Rae:
I like nice stuff for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what resources, do you have any favorite resources that you can point us to?

David Rae:
I really like the points guy. It's a website that has a bunch of tips there, and there's another blogger called Eric Rosen who has a bunch of stuff on the internet if you google him, he talks really about how to get upgraded to first class, which is a great resource there.

Bobbi Rebell:
I need that.

David Rae:
I know you do. There's nothing more financial grown up than being first class, especially [crosstalk 00:10:46]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Not if you pay for it though. Definitely not gonna pay for it in actual cash or money. But if it could be free, that works for me.

David Rae:
We could all do that, we can all use miles and points or status, and just being a little strategic on how you do it, I book my hotels a lot of times through hotels dot com and I just went away for the weekend and used free nights. I went to Vegas and had two free nights of hotel. So it's just stretching the money you're making and spending to turn it into more travel and more fun, and that's just the stuff I love. I know other people like cash back, or gift cards or things like that, but I love to travel, and again, I've become a little spoiled and wanna be up in first class when possible, even though I believe Barbara Corcharan says she's back in coach. But I'll be up in first and that's how I like it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, I love your blog. Tell me about your blog.

David Rae:
My blog is Financial Planner LA dot com, and I really just try to bring fun tips to money. I know we get pretty serious as a financial planner, and you say the big B word, budget, but I really like to go more in the range of pop culture and fun, and I did a big series on the Golden Girls retirement, how you can retire and have a fabulous time [crosstalk 00:11:56].

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, I was retweeting that one, I loved it.

David Rae:
I know, it's so much fun. People really love that. It's kind of taking that roommate story and going this can actually be a great, positive thing, and a happy dream retirement. We'd all love to live with friends, or at least have that kind of friendships around. So I try to make money fun, and definitely the tax stuff is in there, and the nuts and bolts are in there, but we try and wrap it in something fun so you're not just stocks and bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and it's a great resource, especially because we're heading into the end of the year, and there's a lot of changes, and you mentioned the tax law, so you're a great resource as a Certified Financial Planner to check out for all of that. And just before I let you go, one last thing, share with us your social handles so people can follow you.

David Rae:
Yes, on Twitter I'm DavidRae, R-A-E, CFP. On Instagram, I'm DavidRaeLA, and on Facebook it's David Rae CFP as well. So check me out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, David.

David Rae:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. For all the talk about delayed adulthood these days, the truth is, there is still a stigma with having roommates as not being a very grown up thing. But, being a grown up means making adjustments and being real when you need to. Life's complicated, things get messy, and there's a lot of unpredictable stuff that we can't always be fully prepared for. So we have to be ready to make changes and go with the flow a little bit. Sometimes things just kind of happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number one, do what you have to do to stay on track with your financial goals. David took on roommates. It wasn't so bad, in fact, he had a pretty good time with it. I moved back in with my parents when I got a divorce early in my adult life. I sold the tiny one bedroom apartment that I had owned, regrouped for a year, saved money, and moved out. Stronger financially, and also just like David had a good time with his roommates, it was kind of nice getting to know my parents as an adult.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, if you see the financial train wreck coming down the tracks, and you know it's coming guys, you can see it, get a plan together fast. Don't assume things are just gonna fix themselves or you can just bury your head in the sand. They're not gonna go away so easily. Even if your plan isn't perfect, just have some kind of plan. Do something. You can adjust it later. But denial and procrastination like David said, just too expensive. You deserve better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If you have not, please subscribe to the podcast. It's free. Go into the manual settings when you do it, and setup auto downloads so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and of course, please tell a friend that you care about and who you think deserves to have a rich life.

Bobbi Rebell:
David Rae is such a wonderful role model for all of us. Thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

At 20-years old, Lauryn Williams CFP® was the fastest woman in America, and suddenly faced some very grownup financial decisions. Lauryn shares how she put together a team of advisors including her coach and an agent, how they vetted different sponsors, and how she learned to get paid to run for a living. 

In Lauryn’s money story you will learn:

-Why one of the fastest women in the world chose to slow down and carefully make her financial decisions

-How much money a three-time Gold medalist really makes 

-What goes into an olympic sponsorship deal

In Lauryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How keeping an open mind prepared Lauryn for the opportunity of a lifetime

-How to cope with money anxiety when making a big financial decision

In Lauryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one person who will always save you money

-How to listen to others talk about finance with a grain of salt

In My Take you will learn:

-The number one question you always need to ask yourself before making a financial decision

-Why Certified Financial Planners need to be your best friend

EPISODE LINKS

Check out Lauryn's website here

Listen to Lauryn's podcast here

Follow Lauryn's company! 

Instagram: @worthwinning

Twitter: @worth_winning

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lauryn Williams:
And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my financial grownup friends. That was fellow Certified Financial Planner, Lauryn Williams. Her company, by the way, is called Worth Winning. She also just happens to be a three-time Olympic medalist, the first American woman to medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympic Games. Lauryn was a track star and then just kind of decided to get into the bobsledding thing, because why not, and of course she won a medal there to. By the way, she's a four-time Olympian. And Lauryn not only is a CFP, she is an MBA, she has an MBA in Finance. Talk about a role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
So welcome, everyone. So glad you are investing the time. And for those of you that are new to the Financial Grownup podcast, we try to keep it short, about 15 minutes, because we know how busy you are. But if you have a little more time, feel free to stack a few episodes together. Let's get right to Lauryn, I met her through our mutual friend, Jamila Souffrant, of the Journey to Launch podcast at Podcast Movement, where else, this past summer. And immediately I adored her, I know that you will too. In addition to all of the accomplishments that I just mentioned, and many more, she's just the coolest and most lovely person, and also a fellow dog lover. Here is Lauryn Williams.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauryn Williams, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Lauryn Williams:
It's so good to be on. Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so excited to have you because not only are you a four-time Olympian, the first woman to earn a medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympics, you get the biggest gold star from me because you're an actual CFP, Certified Financial Planner. So, so great to have you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
It is really good to be on the show. I'm looking forward to telling my financial story today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do want to just mention, you also are a financial professional, you are the real deal. Your company, Worth Winning.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. I started a company to be able to help young professionals, people specifically in their 20s and 30s, organize their finances because I felt like there was such a big gap there. During my career as a professional athlete I had some advisors that didn't do a good job for me, and it was mainly because they didn't get what I needed at that age. So my company is specific to helping young professionals organize their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we'll give all the information for that. And by the way, your podcast, Worth Listening, after your money story. But we want to get to this because this is really a unique perspective into the world of a money-savvy athlete. Because when you were in college, just 20 years old, you won a very big, big race and that brought you to a big financial milestone in your life. Tell us your money story, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, so I was a junior in college at the University of Miami, having a blast. Made it to nationals my freshman and my sophomore year, but didn't have success. So on my junior year, I was on a tear. What do I need to do to win this national championship, I wanted to be the fastest girl in all of college. And I did, I achieved that. I ran the fastest time that day, won the race. It also happened to be the second fastest time in the world, for the whole year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just happened to be.

Lauryn Williams:
Just happened to be. And it was 2004, the Olympic year. So immediately I had to turn my focus from this one goal that I had of wining college nationals to, oh my goodness, America is counting on me to go to the Olympic trials a month from now and win that thing and represent Team USA.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, there was a money element to this.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So immediately after running that time I started to be approached by agents and they started approaching mostly through my coach. She was kind of the middle woman and she just had to sit me down and say, "Lauryn, as much as I'd like you to stay in college, I think it's going to be more lucrative for you to leave school. And the first part of that process if for you to get an agent."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. What happened was you were being approached by a bunch of companies who wanted to sponsor you.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So, with track and field, the shoe companies are usually the main way that we earn a means of income. So it's not a situation where you earn a W3 employment somewhere with Team USA and then you get this as extra. If you don't have a sponsorship, you don't have an income and you're not really a professional athlete. That was the main thing, so I had to decide which shoe company I wanted to go with, which contract was going to be the best. And the agent helped a lot with putting in the restrictions and the bonuses and making sure everything was really good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So let's take a step back. You finish the race, what happens then? Does a shoe company just call your mom? How do they first get in touch with you? Break down exactly what happens and, if you feel comfortable, who was approaching you and how they value an athlete early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the shoe companies are there at the meet, they're walking by you, they're shaking your hand, telling you good luck, we'd love to talk to you. And you don't have any long conversations in that moment, you just have kind of shorter ones. And then, like I said, my coach was very protective, made sure that first step is to get an agent, find someone that you trust, and let those shoe companies go through the agent instead of you having to talk to them directly. Because they're trying to woo you and tell you all these great things, but really it's going to come down to what's on that pen and paper and whether or not we should sign that. So we've got to get someone that's a professional, that knows about these contracts, in order to get the information we need. So that was the first step in the process really.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your coach guided you in choosing an agent. And what was that conversation like? Were you just swarmed by agents? How did you vet the agents?

Lauryn Williams:
I had to make a list of questions. I had to find out what I was looking for, what do I need from being a professional athlete, what can I expect from you? Because I'm 20 years old, I'm not even legally a grownup grownup yet. I'm going to need your guidance but I also know that I'm hiring you and you're going to make a living from this. So what can I expect from the money that you'll be paid to provide this service to me? And in track and field, an agent takes 15% of whatever they get for you, and that's a pretty hefty chunk of change. It's not 1% or 2% like it is in the other professional sports, so you'd better make sure that it's somebody that you trust and that's going to be making the best earnings for you so that they too, in turn, can earn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, is that true? So in track and field they take 15%, what sports do they take only 1% or 2%? That seems really low.

Lauryn Williams:
Pretty much the big three sports. So the Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, NFL. All of those have much lower percentages, but they also have much higher earnings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fascinating.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, our income fluctuates quite a bit in track and field. And so, for me, I was at around $200,000 as a 20-year-old. Like you said, fastest woman in the world in 2004. With, like I said, different bonuses and prize bonuses, if I ran a certain time I could get a bonus, if I won the Olympics I'd get an increase in salary. All those different sorts of things had to be negotiated.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So let's back it up a little. So you get the agent, then what happens? Did you just get a pile of offers and you just picked one? How did it work? Were there other factors? Was it just money? What kinds of things were you seeing, as a 20-year-old just getting these first money offers?

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the agent comes to me kind of with a summary of here's what Adidas is offering, here's the salary, here's the bonus structure, and here's the ... You know, he was just going with the main things. Of course, you know, the final contract is 20 or something pages long, but the initial part is just here's a summary of what it is. And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so you went with Nike. What were the factors that made that the winner for that first sponsorship endorsement deal?

Lauryn Williams:
Ultimately it was, like you said, the schooling was one of the big keys for me. Because, like you said, education was not optional. So for them being willing to support me, one, financially with a really good salary, then also pay for my education, they had a really good prize and bonus structure that if I did in fact run fast I would be compensated accordingly, which I thought was very fair. Every year that I won, I got a nice rollover or a nice salary increase. It was the most lucrative of the different contracts that were offered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me what was your feeling when you signed that first contract. Did you have a new sense of financial security when you signed with Nike, at age 20, for $200,000?

Lauryn Williams:
As a finance major, I think my biggest feeling when I signed that contract was anxiety. It's like you've been given a really cool opportunity, don't blow it. And so the first thing I wanted to do was go and find a financial professional to help me, because I knew even though I was a finance major that I didn't have what it took just yet to be able to organize such a large amount of money that I'd never seen before, no one in my family seen before. It was excitement but mostly anxiety.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners from your story? From signing that first big contract at age 20?

Lauryn Williams:
I would say the takeaway is you never know when something really awesome is going to happen, when that windfall is right around the corner, but it's really about being prepared all the time. When opportunity knocks, be ready to answer the door and be prepared to take life at whatever it is, because it can immediately change. And my life changed overnight, I was a broke college student to hundred-thousandaire. Literally overnight.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. All right, let's get your everyday money tip, because this also relates back to those early experiences and some good habits that you learned early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I would say everyday money tip, make sure you have questions for whatever it is that you're going through in life. Whether it's hiring a financial professional, an accountant, an agent, when you're talking to your friends, ask questions. It's so important to be pulling information out of others as opposed to just taking the information as being fed to you. I found frequently during my career that people would give me information and they were only giving me the information they wanted me to have, and that ended up being catastrophic in a lot of different situations. So really having the ability to ask questions, look for red flags, and educate yourself in all aspects of life is the most important everyday money tip that I think your listeners need to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Tell us a little bit more about your business now. So you did have some tough experiences with financial advisors and you've talked about that widely, that really helped pivot your career when you moved away from full-time being a professional athlete into being a full-time financial advisor.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I just had to find a way to fill the gap. Like you said, there was so many basic things, from budgeting, to understanding first-time home purchase. I needed help with just those basic things and I realized that as young professionals, there's a gap in the industry. There's these big wealth managers that require you have at least a million dollars before you can get help and then there's these other guys that sell you crappy products. And I was like we deserve something better, we deserve just unbiased advice that could help us build wealth, sort through our student loans situation, sort through the financial basics so that we can get on the right track. And that's how Worth Winning was born.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what inspired you to become a CFP and not just a financial advisor? Because you don't have to be a CFP to do this.

Lauryn Williams:
You don't have to be a CFP but I feel like it's the standard. I wouldn't go to someone who said, "I read medical books all the time, so certainly I can perform this surgery on you." Yeah, you may be really smart, but I'm going to go with a doctor that's actually been to medical school. And CFP to me is the same sort of standard, where you've gone through rigorous education, you've gotten a certain amount of experience, you've taken a hard, hard, hard exam, and you're held to a level of ethics that is not what the whole industry is held to right now. So it was really important to me to be able to put that seal of approval and that stamp on, to be able to say I'm competent to serve people and do my best job for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find out more about your and Worth Winning, and Worth Listening, your podcast?

Lauryn Williams:
Yes. Worth Winning is worth-winning.com and the podcast is worth-listening.com. And you can get to Worth Listening by going to Worth Winning, so I'd love to have you go and check out my website and see if something there rings true with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social channels, you have a great following, by the way.

Lauryn Williams:
Oh, thank you. @worthwinning on Instagram, @worth_winning on Twitter. And then if you're looking for me, Lauryn Williams the Olympian, you can do lauryncwilliams on Instagram, Twitter, and you can find me on Facebook as well, by typing in either of those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love Lauryn's story, because it's such a different world. I mean, can you imagine being a star athlete and being offered hundreds of thousand dollar contracts when you're 20 years old, out of the blue, and all the responsibility that comes with it? I love the fact that she came out so strong and then it became such a great foundation for building her Worth Wining financial advisory business, and her Worth Listening podcast, which everyone should check out. Lauryn is a wonderful role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Lauryn talked about asking a lot of questions and having your list. Okay, I want everyone listening to always have one question at the top of that list, no matter what you are buying, financial services or otherwise, how do you get paid? It's very important to know, is someone being paid a flat fee or are they being paid on commission. Now, there's no right or wrong answer, as long as you're comfortable with the answer. Generally, it's nice for financial services to go to somebody who's not being paid on commission because you know that they're seeling you, in theory they should be selling you, what is best for your needs. If it's commission-based, they may be selling you what gives them the best commission and you never really know.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's important to know how they're being paid. But remember, this is the financial services industry. In many other industries the general rule is that commissions are often the preferable way to be paid. For example, think about travel. Very often someone that helps you set up a trip is getting a commission and most people are okay with it being paid that way, as opposed to paying them a separate fee, although it can be done that way as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. You may have noticed that I was fawning all over the fact that Lauryn is a Certified Financial Planner. It is a big deal. When you give your money to someone, you need to know that they are qualified, that you can trust them. And I can tell you, that as a Certified Financial Planner myself, we are what is called fiduciaries. And that means that we have to work with you to find whatever solution is in your best interest, not just what is suitable. Fiduciary, big word, very important word, but pay attention to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you have a financial question, a money question, or just a question about what goes on behind the scenes here at Fin aical Grownup that you want answered on one of our bonus episodes, we are taking listener questions. So just DM it to us on any of the social channels. On Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can also just email it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That's hellow@financialgrownup.com. And thank you to Lauryn Williams for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Ameliora Founder and CEO Adrienne Kronovet started paying close attention to clothing as a child shopping with her grandmother, and shares her timeless insights on shopping strategies and lessons learned. 

In Adrienne’s money story you will learn:

-The role the perfect pair of jeans played in her success

-Her strategy to determine value when deciding what clothing to invest in and more

In Adrienne’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her specific tips to find the best values when shopping

-The different ways you can leverage confidence to make the best financial decisions

In Adrienne’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to look at the cost-per-use of an item

-Exactly what to look for when purchasing a work-appropriate wardrobe, especially when you are first starting out in your career

EPISODE LINKS:

https://ameliora.com/

Follow Adrienne and Ameliora!

Instagram @Ameliorany

Facebook @Ameliorany

Pinterest @Ameliorany

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Adrienne Kronov:
I found these jeans. They were bootcut, dark wash, denim. I think they were about $60. I put them on, and oh my gosh, I felt invincible.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. How can you tell when an expensive clothing buy is really an investment piece and not just a splurge that you're trying to justify? There are specific things that you need to know, and our guest is going to educate us. First, quick thank you just for being here. Your time matters. We appreciate it. We try to keep the show around 15 minutes because you're busy. The show is also free to you. We've done over 100 episodes, and the only thank you that I ask is that you give back by telling a friend that you care about and helping them find the show. They may not even know how to listen to a podcast, so help them actually load it onto their phone or other device so that they can also benefit from the stories of these amazing high achievers that we get to speak to here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to another high achiever, our guest. You guys are just going to love her. Adrienne Kronovet founded and self-founded her clothing company, Ameliora, remember that name, with a very clear mission that she's going to share, and she is already making a real difference. But it all started with some special shopping trips with her grandmother. Here is Adrienne Kronovet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adrienne Kronovet, CEO of Ameliora, hopefully I said that right, all of 23 years old. You're already a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you so much, Bobbi, and you pronounced it all right. I'm such a fan, and it's so awesome to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm glad you're being honest. But we did practice that, so we do try.

Adrienne Kronov:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've botched quite a few names, so we got past that one. So I mentioned your company, Ameliora, and we're going to talk more after [inaudible 00:02:28] but just quickly, since you're all of 23 years old, this is a self-funded, beautiful clothing company, the most elegant jackets and pants-

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
... named after extraordinary women. Just tell us a little bit about it.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah, absolutely. So I started Ameliora almost a year ago, which is so crazy to say, to make clothes that would make women feel confident and empowered. I really wanted to have clothes you would take out for a special occasion. If you had an interview to go to or you had a meeting or you were giving a presentation, I wanted to create clothes that you would grab for that special moment and put on that would make you feel absolutely invincible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they are. I am the proud owner of the Carmen jacket, which we'll talk about later. They are beautiful, down to the fabric.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of that is because you learned the appreciation of clothing. You're from a family that was in the clothing business back in your home state of North Carolina, where your grandfather had a clothing mill, and you actually have a lot of childhood memories of, for example, shopping with your grandmother and a specific pair of jeans. Tell us your money story about these jeans. I think you wore them for almost a decade.

Adrienne Kronov:
I did. So every year for my birthday, my grandmother would take me shopping, and she did this for all of her grandchildren. And we all looked forward to it because my grandmother has the most exquisite taste-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah?

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this an outing for all of you at the same time, like one big day, or was it your birthday day?

Adrienne Kronov:
It was our birthday day, but we always when it was coming up. Grandma Maryann would call us, we'd pick a date, and then we'd head off to the mall. It was something that I know myself and all my cousins really looked forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was a day at the mall like with your grandma?

Adrienne Kronov:
It was an event. So my grandmother, she would pick us up. We'd go eat at the food court and we'd make a map of where we wanted to go and pick the highlights and stores we really loved. Like for my male cousins, I think she took them to maybe Dick's, and I know for me and a lot of my girl cousins, we went to Hollister and American Eagle. And she really custom tailored where we would go depending on our own personal taste.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a budget, or this was just the ultimate shopping spree?

Adrienne Kronov:
I mean, of course, there was always a budget, but it was really interesting because she never framed it around money. It was all about how the clothes made you feel. So, yes, there was a budget, but it never felt like one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So then tell me what would go on in a typical shopping trip and about these jeans you want to talk about.

Adrienne Kronov:
My grandmother, it was such this treasured experience that she and I shared. So we, one day, I think it was I want to say my 12th birthday, and the two of us, we ate at the food court, and then we immediately headed over to Hollister. I tried on a bunch of stuff, different shirts, dresses, and all the sudden I found these jeans. They were bootcut, dark wash, denim. I think they were about $60. I put them on, and oh my gosh, I felt invincible, and my grandmother, she took one look at me. She saw how I felt in them, and she said, "You know what? We're getting them." So we got them, and I wore them from 12 to 21.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, and by the way, just remind everyone, you're 23 now. Okay, go on.

Adrienne Kronov:
Right. I'm 23. Yeah. I'm 23 now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Miss CEO.

Adrienne Kronov:
[inaudible 00:05:48] right. So I wore these jeans at every place I had to go. I wore these jeans because I felt super, super invincible. I knew that if I wanted to look good, I would wear these bootcut jeans. I wore them to my first day of college. I have pictures and pictures of me in the same pair of pants. I mean, I wore them for almost 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did anyone ever notice? I mean, they're jeans, so most people don't, right?

Adrienne Kronov:
People don't. None of my-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Then it's a good thing it wasn't a crazy top or something.

Adrienne Kronov:
Oh my gosh. Exactly. And that was the best part because they were such a great, universal pair of jeans that I could wear them with a blazer if I needed to be more formal. I could wear a T-shirt if it was casual. They would work with heels, with sneakers, with slippers. I mean, I loved, loved these jeans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this?

Adrienne Kronov:
I guess the takeaway would be get a good pair of jeans. I think the big takeaway from this is to be thoughtful in your purchases, make your buying really deliberate. I'd bought these jeans. When I got them, they were pretty universal so I could wear them with a blazer, like I said. I could wear them with really anything. They were so versatile. They were a forever piece in my closet, and just having that to turn to was so amazing knowing that I had a go-to item that would make me feel super confident.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of investing in clothing or items that are going to really last, I love your everyday money tip because it's something that is becoming more of a discussion topic, especially as Millennials, like you, are moving up the career ladder and becoming more successful in business and wanting to present a certain way among their peers and colleagues.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Absolutely. I think when, as myself and my friends, as we get older, we really want to look professional and we want to look polished. And so that leads me to my money tip, which is rather than just the initial sticker price is to focus on the cost per wear, which is basically where the value of the item is directly related to how much you use it. So if you have a $30 dress and you wear it once, the cost per wear is 30 bucks. But if you spend $100 on a dress and you wear it 20 times, the cost per wear is $5. I mean, I think my $60 Hollister jeans, I think the cost per wear was in the negatives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Pennies. Pennies.

Adrienne Kronov:
Pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, which is excellent. Try to get to pennies in your cost per wear. Let's talk more about Ameliora, because, as I keep saying, you're 23 years old. You basically founded this right out of school, self-funded, which is incredible. You did have a family background. Your grandfather operated a clothing mill in North Carolina. This is not just about the clothing, though. Tell us more.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah, absolutely. It's all about how clothes can make you feel, the feeling I got when I put on those jeans and I felt invincible. It's about creating blazers and jackets and different items that you put on and you feel like you can conquer anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they all go together. They're all coordinated, which is great.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Absolutely. Everything is made in the same black, except I will give you a bit of an exclusive-

Bobbi Rebell:
Ooh.

Adrienne Kronov:
We are in the process of developing and launching a new shirting that will introduce white into the collection, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. I think I read a little bit of a hint about this. You're sourcing unusual fabrics, so there's also some innovation happening here.

Adrienne Kronov:
Right. What we're trying to do is we're trying to elevate the regular suit. So in our suiting and in our shirting fabric, we're using performance fabrics. So imagine the same fabric that's used in Lululemon legging but as a shirt, a professional shirt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I need to see this. I'm going to have to track you down in New York and come down and see it. So where can people get your stuff? Where can people get everything?

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. You can find us 100% online at Ameliora.com. We live on the web. We're accessible 24/7 from any device.

Bobbi Rebell:
And social media, where can people follow you?

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Social media @AmelioraNY.

Bobbi Rebell:
On all the channels.

Adrienne Kronov:
On all the channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. It was such a joy to be on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't wait for all of you to check out Ameliora. The pieces are stunning. I own a Carmen jacket and love it, and I love that she's expanding beyond black. Who knows what's next? Financial Grownup tip number one, if you do splurge on something you love, and then you realize you were wrong, return it. Now, that may sound obvious, but as everyone who has cleaned out his or her closet knows, you probably found some items with tags on it. You know who you are. And in fact, go through your closet right now and see, or after you finish listening, and see if any items have tags on them, and if it hasn't been too long, return them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, leverage what you know and who you know. I met Adrienne almost a year ago when she was just launching the line right out of college. Most people would say she should have worked at a fashion line behind the scenes and learned the ropes, but you know what? Because her family had been in the garment industry, she already knew the ropes, and she was able to use that to her advantage. A lot of people don't want to go into family businesses, but tapping into what those closest to you know and know well is a smart move, and that goes for friends who may have insights and connections in a given field as well. Use it. Life's tough enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you enjoyed this episode. We have some big new things planned that I will be talking about later this week, so be sure to subscribe and go into settings to make sure that you are in auto download mode so you don't miss it. Be in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Twitter @BobbiRebell and PM me what you want to see more of because we're making big changes here at Financial Grownup. And thank you to Ameliora's Adrienne Kronovet for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.