Journalist and author Nicole Lapin shares a hilarious story of how a lack of preparation almost led to total humiliation.  Plus why procrastination can be a good thing for financial grownups.

Nicole’s Money Story:

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. I started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc when I was 18 years old, and when I was asked if I knew anything about money news or business news, I totally lied, and I faked it till I made it. And then I had to become real, because I found that money is just a language like anything else, and I could not speak that language. So I was going to interview the founders of a tech company at the time and my boss, who was awesome, said to me as I ran out the door, and I would always carry like a big diaper bag, almost combat ready with all sorts of stuff, like a poncho just in case, from my time in actual general news, I didn't know what would happen. I was combat ready. And he was like, "Do you have the P&L?" You know, a lot of people call me NL or Lapin for short.

Nicole Lapin:
And I was like, "No dude, I'm good. I don't need to pee." And I get to the interview and the PR person was like, "Do you have the P&L?" And I'm like, okay, think, Lapin, think. She is not asking you if you need to pee, this must be a money term. I sit down with the founders, and they're like, our profits, as you can see from our P&L, you know, blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, okay, has to do with profits, think, think, think. Profits. L, losses. And I kept saying PnL, like Kibbles 'n Bits, and I didn't even know it was an and. Like, I just was so clueless, and that was a great example of how I had to think about this right on the spot and definitely was not prepared.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so what happened? How did this play out? Did you have an aha moment in the middle of the interview?

Nicole Lapin:
I had the aha moment, and I knew enough that it had to do with their balance sheet, and so I could sort of dance around it and get through the interview. Then after that I wrote down PnL, like N for Nicole, and then it took me another hot minute to realize there was an and sign. It was like profits and losses.

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, did you confess to anyone? Did you tell your boss, "I didn't know what that meant," or did you just keep going?

Nicole Lapin:
No, no, no, no, no. I just had super intense imposter syndrome, and I just thought everyone was going to figure out that I didn't know what I was talking about, and I would have never, ever admitted at the time that I couldn't speak this language. I only now can talk about this, very gladly in hindsight. I love making fun of myself with the most embarrassing money stories, but no, definitely not at the time.

“Money is an intimidating language. It’s ok if you can’t speak the language. Just ask what something means.”

Nicole’s Money Lesson:

Nicole Lapin:
I think realizing that money is an intimidating language. We just don't have a Rosetta Stone for this growing up. And it's okay if you can't speak the language. Just ask what something means. I've talked to COs of major publicly traded companies who have asked me like what does [inaudible 00:06:00] mean, for example, like right before we went on the air, and I was like, "Dude, it's just the bond buyback program." Like, no big deal. And they were like, "Yeah, I just didn't know the terminology." And so there's lots of terminology that sounds confusing. If you went to China and you didn't speak Chinese, you'd be confused. If you went to Wall Street and you didn't speak the language of money, you would be confused, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you're saying that, because so many of us kind of nod and pretend we understand something and maybe make decisions that we shouldn't make, because we don't want to admit that we don't get it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah, totally. And you're definitely not alone. I think a lot of people smile and nod and don't join basic money conversations because they're too intimidated and too scared to admit that they don't know what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And by the way, your website and your books are a tremendous resource for understanding a lot of this stuff.

“I aim for progress and not perfection. If I have more good days than bad days then I am totally winning.”

Nicole’s Money Tip:

Nicole Lapin:
I like to rethink conventional financial wisdom, conventional business wisdom. And yes, you're right. I rewrite financial dictionaries and business dictionaries. I did it in the back of Rich (beep) and Boss (beep). This is maybe why I'm single. But at the end of every chapter in every book, I rethink conventional wisdom to hopefully help you think for yourself. And procrastination is often used as a bad word. It's used as something that you should avoid, but I actually think that you can not fully procrastinate, because it's so cathartic to cross out all the things on your to-do list, like, here we go, dry cleaning, you know, pick up this, blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, those things might not move you towards your goals. So if you remind yourself of what you're working toward and what you have to do and almost connect the dots, I came up with a Super Woman journal that's a companion journal along with Becoming Super Woman to help you do that throughout the day, and I create this point system that's almost like a weight loss sort of system that allows you to give yourself points for things you're focusing on and forgive yourself first if you're not focusing on just the then and there. Because I think we can have it all. We just can't do it all, especially not at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And another thing that I love about the book is you have these really compelling quotes. For example, related to what we were just talking about, you have a quote from Mark Twain, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow," which makes a lot of sense when you really think about the reasoning behind it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. If you have to pick up your dry cleaning or something, and you need to get something done that will move you toward making your side hustle your full time hustle, I would do that and then get your dry cleaning, unless you really have like nothing, nothing to wear. I would do that later on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing in the book that I love is that you have not just a to-do list, but a have done list.

Nicole Lapin:
Yes. Because, you know, we often get into this mode of we've just not accomplished anything, and we're not doing anything compared to everybody else on Instagram. And I think comparison is the thief of joy, and also we tend to compare ourselves to the best version of each aspect of our lives. So we compare our fitness regime to a fitness blogger who works out five hours a day, or our mommy life to that of a mommy YouTuber who bakes bread for her kids and homeschools them. That's not realistic. And so if we get into that cycle and we don't have the definition of what success is to us, we often feel inadequate. We shouldn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, we should not feel inadequate. But one thing that you also work through in the book is you have specific plans for people to organize and get towards those goals in a realistic way, not in a way where you're trying to keep up with somebody, like you were just talking about.

“Comparison is the thief of joy”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

We didn't get to this in the interview, but a lot of Nicole's advice focuses on productivity and avoiding distraction and all the stress that that causes, and of course spending time when you didn't mean to on things. For example, she recommends a browser extension called unroll.me. It's free, and I am now using it. I will leave a link in the show notes. You can always find the show notes by going to bobbirebell.com and then going to the Financial Grownup podcast area. There's also a handy search box in the upper right hand corner, where you can always just type in the guest name or any keyword, but definitely check out unroll.me.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Another one from Nicole's book was to keep emails to five sentences. If it has to be longer than five sentences, then it deserves a phone call. I'm going to start trying that in my workflow. We'll see how it goes, but if you do it, too, let me know how it goes.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Nicole’s website - nicolelapin.com

• Nicole’s book Becoming Super Woman

Follow Nicole!

• Instagram - @nicolelapin

• Facebook - @NicoleLapin

• Twitter - @NicoleLapin

• YouTube - @NicoleLapin

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

Fran’s money story:

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Fran’s Money Lesson:

I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Fran’s Everyday Money Tip:

Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Financial Grownup tip number one

one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.


Financial Grownup tip number two

don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Episode Links:

• Fran’s website - Franhauser.com

• Fran’s book - The Myth of the Nice Girl

 

Follow Fran!

• instagram - @fran_hauser

• twitter - @fran_hauser

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Optometrist Jen Tsai was in the process of launching her solo practice when the pandemic hit. She shares how she kept her cool and managed to overcome financing and construction challenges, as well as build a retail practice while the world was in turmoil. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, it definitely wasn't my goal to open a cold start practice in the start of pandemic. I honestly thought with the year being 2020 it would be good luck to open it with that, but you can never plan for things. I think that was an important lesson, to just always be prepared, especially financially, with working capital, when you go into any business. If we didn't do that, if I didn't do that, we would've been in a different place today.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
I think being prepared for that was always important, and being able to work the first couple of years, just seeing how other practices ran their business, really taught me a lot because I paid attention to their maybe downfalls and ways that they were efficient and applied that to my own business model.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, how did you balance everything? Because you had these plans in place, you were geared up to start this business, then coronavirus hit and you did have other financial things going on you had to balance. You still had student debt, so you had to balance that. Did you take out loans? How did you finance this business and how did you keep going as this pandemic is emerging?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, I definitely have student debt. Luckily, my undergrad was paid off and I had some scholarships. In terms of medical school and optometry school, it is quite expensive as we all know and we come out of it with a couple hundred thousand dollars with our name. I didn't always have a fear of taking out debt. I understood and I did my research about what the student rates were. I think a lot of people do have a fear of taking out student debt, and when they finish school their immediate goal is to completely pay off their loans because it may seem daunting or scary and they feel that they can't continue to do other things with their money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's not that it's bad to pay off the student debt. It's bad if it keeps you from living your life, I guess, is what you're getting at, that you don't start other things until you pay it down completely when you're facing, in your case, six-figure debt.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah. I think that is definitely something that stalls people or holds them back. I think it's important to realize that student debt is not a bad thing. I think people see it as a bad thing. There's definitely a lot of debt that other people have that they don't realize on a day-to-day basis that's actually worse, which is credit card loans that you purchase stuff with. Those interest rates are definitely higher.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Going into that, I definitely saved up enough working capital and I made sure that I refinanced my loans to make sure that I had a lower interest rate. I didn't really let that stop me from chasing my dreams and going after what I really wanted. Initially, I was held a bit back, looking at the cost of how much to start a complete cold start. I was even looking at buying old practices that were definitely a lot cheaper, but also evaluating their P&Ls. Thinking about the whole thing, I realized in the long run, this is a short-term investment for your end goal, which is the more important thing. So I was willing to take that investment, especially on myself. That's what I wanted to focus on.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you were in the pandemic and you're trying to start this?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Once it was around March, we were gearing up to open. We were finally putting down the finishing touches for the front of the store and then the pandemic happened. I'm in New York City, so when it first happened in March, it definitely was a tough time. It was really scary for us. We knew it was coming from upstate and then all of a sudden it became widespread and immediately everything just shut down. It was like a ghost town. We couldn't even go to the site to really look at the construction because we weren't even allowed to be in proximity with our contractors, so everything just came to a halt. I had to quickly convert to a virtual telehealth visit for my patients, while doing virtual Zoom calls with my architect team. It was just insane. It was an insane time. We couldn't even finish our construction because we had to apply for permitting in order to be able to finish construction during a pandemic.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Finally, around I would say maybe like June or July, they allowed us to go back in to finish construction. Of course, at that point there was delays in manufacturers with their materials, getting it to our store. It was just working around that. I mean, I will tell you, our store still isn't even completely done to this day. I've just learned to live day by day at this point. But luckily, we were able to at least open our doors August 6. I was just really excited to get in there. After four months of not really seeing patients in person, I wanted to be back in there to be able to care for the ones that really needed to see me during that time.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Then I was shocked because we basically, starting from the first day a month and a half ago to now, it's been seeing eight to 10 patients already. Partly, I think it would attribute to probably a little bit of social media, just sharing out there honest, brutal moments that I have and I think it makes it more authentic that people do see where you come from, and also sharing the fact that we're there to provide a space where they feel safe and comfortable, that it's modern and clean. I think that going forward, people really care about their health, patients really do, especially with COVID, that they realize how important their health is and they're willing to invest in that. I am grateful that people have been able to come in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do in advance financially to shore up your finances and made sure you had that runway?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
On a bigger scale level I think about it. People are either really trigger happy, or they're really risk adverse. If you're really risk adverse, you'll never take the first step because you're just afraid of all these self-doubts that you have. I think what has helped me is just really creating a strong financial plan and making sure that you have everything checked off for the worst-case scenario in case it happens, because you never know. I think for people who are trigger happy, I think that's one thing that they need to think about. Are there things that could happen, such as a pandemic, that will maybe cause me to not have any cashflow or working capital going into it?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Coming out of school a couple of years later, I realized it doesn't make sense to not refinance my loan so that I could reduce my interest rate and have it all in one place. That has helped me manage my money better. I was working, I would say for the first four years, full-time. Actually, when I first started in two practices, then I went down to one. I hustled, I worked really hard to save money. I didn't put it all into paying off my loans. I used it to save up money, invest on the side, so I had a better cash flow and working capital because I knew that I wanted to start my own practice at that point in time. I just knew that I needed money saved up to do that.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Starting lean when you start a practice is really important and only purchasing things when you need it. It has to justify. If you buy a piece of equipment, how many times do you have to perform the procedure to make the money back, thinking about that, cutting back on vendor purchases or offering more of a curated product of frame line. I think these days, patients prefer that one-on-one time, that one-on-one experience to feel like they've had an amazing experience at the store. You don't have to purchase a million things that don't get bought, instead focusing on limited product lines and setting aside cash reserves to pay bills and reducing your overhead capital expenditures and working with your vendors and landlord, if it's possible, if they're willing to negotiate with you.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
I would say, little by little, a little becomes a lot. These little steps that you set in place for the long road is really important. One of the things for me is making sure that you have your financial steps in place. At least for me, that was refinancing my student loans, that was the very first step. For example, I use Laurel Road. Right now, I think federal interest rates are so low it's silly to not take advantage of that. It's great to have this digital lending platform that is built for specifically young professionals in healthcare as well to work towards their goals. There's definitely perks and rewards that they have for healthcare professionals. Refinancing definitely helps you with savings over time, and that's how you can use working capital to invest towards your future or your dream practice or something that you want to build.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also going to help your credit score to have all of your finances in order, obviously, which is going to help if you do need to get more funding, especially if you get these unexpected things like a pandemic and you need to access maybe more capital, more time to pay loans and better rates than you maybe thought before.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Right, exactly. I agree.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, shiny object syndrome is definitely a public enemy if you go down this rabbit hole of just purchasing everything you find. They're really good at it with marketing, you're just sitting at home, scrolling through your phone on social media and there's something that you want. I remember when I first graduated out of school, with my first paycheck living in New York City, the first thing I decided to buy was a Chanel bag. That was the worst decision I ever made. I could not pay rent the next month. I learned really, really quickly to not do that. I think that was because of Sex and the City. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is so cool living in New York."

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
But I think learning stuff like that is really important. You don't have to have every single piece of brand new state-of-the-art technology in your office. I know you want it for your patients and for your store, but you want to start off very lean so that your savings don't get sucked dry so fast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I think that makes sense. I mean, I was upset because the style that I wanted on your eyeglasses store was sold out, but you kept your inventory tight so you're living true to that. You don't want to buy so much inventory that you're holding on to inventory. You're starting out your business lean.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Take your time. I was so frustrated that the glasses I wanted to order it were sold out on her online store, Carrot Eyewear, but Dr. Jen explained that she needed to control her risk exposure by keeping inventories lean, even if that meant losing out on some sales, like to me. Yes, it may slow the pace of the retail business growth, but when the pandemic hit, she wasn't over leveraged. Patience pays. Think about how you can buy just what you need so you don't feel stretched and stressed.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Paying down debt is all good, but as we have learned in the past eight or nine months, well, it shouldn't be at the expense of having enough cash on hand to manage through something totally unexpected, like a global pandemic. Don't miss any payments, be mindful, think about how you can refinance maybe at a lower rate as Jen did, especially with our still super low interest rates, but also do the other things to build your life and keep living.

Episode Links:

• Jennifer’s websites -

  • www.drjennifertsai.com

  • www.lineofsightvision.com

  • www.carroteyewear.com

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @drjenandjuice

• Instagram - @lineofsightvision

• Instagram - @carroteyewear

• Facebook - Carrot Eyewear

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Kara Goldin returns to the podcast to talk about how she broke (some) rules, got past business FOMO,  and never relied on simple check lists to bring HINT to the success it is today. Her new book, Undaunted, Overcoming Doubts + Doubters is part autobiography, part CEO manual and part therapy session for anyone aspiring to reach their career and life goals. 

“You can do it. You might need to go slower.”

Bobbi Rebell:
You're having fun, but you also had a lot of work along the way. You had a lot of kids along the way. There was a lot happening. Someone says this, like life is happening when you're not paying attention, that kind of thing. I mean, you were paying attention, but your life was happening while you were building this business. And now, I met you only a couple of years ago through a networking group that we're in, and I only know you as the CEO of Hint, which is a brand that I see everywhere. So I didn't know this whole backstory. I mean, tell us a little bit about that and the journey and the idea that so many people see you now and don't know the backstory and your decision to write the book.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah, including John. So John Legend is an investor in the company. It was funny. When he read the book, he said, "Okay, what was so fun is that I kept turning the pages, and I said, 'Okay, this is when she shuts the company down,' and then I realized that you haven't shut the company down and you're doing really well, and so you got through all of these crazy times."

Kara Goldin:
I started Hint 15 years ago, no experience in this industry. So my book is called Undaunted: Overcoming Doubts and Doubters. And really, it's about the journey of building something because I really believe that, especially in today's world, people [inaudible 00:04:07] you don't need a lot of experience to just go out and do things. What you need to do is have permission from yourself to go and try.

Kara Goldin:
The reality is, is that a lot of people who have built companies, including myself, they're smart people, but they didn't have experience. They had curiosity and they were okay with potentially failing. They went out and just did.

Kara Goldin:
And so, it's the story of building Hint, but really more. It's a story of resilience and doing something that I really wanted to do. And you mentioned kids. I started this company when I had four kids under the age of six. I've sort of come out of the tunnel a little bit and happy to say that I really believe being a parent who has worked with these kids and they've seen this amazing business being built, now, I can't even imagine that they won't be entrepreneurs themself because they've just seen that, while this is hard, they could potentially go out and do whatever they want to do if they find a problem to solve and something that they're facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's very much a family business. I mean, you would put them to work, let's be clear.

“There is no checklist. There is a vision and there is a willingness to go and try and a resilience.”

Kara Goldin:
Definitely. Yeah, no, I remember early on that my sales guys in New York, my son went out with one of them and he said he's way harder like if the bottles aren't turned the right way, if the labels aren't turned the right way. And so just little things like that, like I always smile when I think about this because although my dad was kind of a frustrated entrepreneur working inside of a large company, I never really got kind of the hands-on learning that I think my kids have gotten, and understanding what things are important. And also understanding that you can actually go up against big industry and win. You can also be a female CEO and grow a company in a significant way.

Kara Goldin:
So I think all of those lessons are really important, especially for people who are sitting here saying, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this. I've got little kids at home," and they're finding excuses as to why they can't do it. You can do it, you might need to go slower.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I usually do with authors is I ask authors to put together checklists. You said to me, "No, there's no checklist." Talk about why entrepreneurs shouldn't have these checklists that we all love to have, like five easy ways to make sure your business is a super success. Tie it up with a bow.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I've had people say to me, usually it's kind of wannabe entrepreneurs who really want the one or two or five things that they ultimately need to do in order to start this business. And when I talk to entrepreneurs in every single category, every single industry, it's kind of the same thing. And that's sort of the element of making an incredible entrepreneur is that there was no checklist. And when they go back and they think, "Well, okay, I kind of went left, but then while I was going left, I actually figured out that I should go right because this was working."

Kara Goldin:
And so, most people who are really looking for a checklist probably are not entrepreneurs. And that's okay too. I talk about it in the book that you can join entrepreneurs. Just because you're not going to go start a company, it doesn't mean that you can't go and take on an incredible amount of responsibility within a company. But I think that there is no checklist. There's a vision and there's a willingness to go and try, and a resilience that is definitely apparent.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're in a recession now. Many people's businesses have taken hits that they've never saw coming. You had to guide Hint through the last recession and were asked to make some tough choices and you came out strong and a lot of similar companies did not. What are you doing now to weather this recession that you can share with us and maybe give other entrepreneurs some inspiration for getting through this very challenging business time?

Kara Goldin:
I think the number one thing that I learned from dealing with other difficult business times is really focusing on what is working. And so during a time when people are sitting here almost frozen, right, thinking, "Oh gosh, nothing is working," something has to be working. There has to be one thing that is really working. And so can you figure out how to throw the gas on that and get some traction?

Kara Goldin:
And there's always going to be things along the way that are out of your control, that you really cannot predict when those things will come back, if they'll ever come back. But in the meantime, by focusing on those things that ultimately are working, like for us, it was the direct to consumer business, you're able to not only potentially bring in more revenue to your company, but also, when you have something that is working, it's very motivating, not only for you, but also for your team to say, "Okay, everybody, start working on this because it's really working."

“There has to be one thing that is really working and so can you figure out how to throw the gas on that and get some traction.”

Kara Goldin:
And so I think that that is such a key thing during this time for everybody to be focusing on. Find that thing that's ultimately working.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you talk about direct to consumer sales. You really hadn't focused that much on your website and sort of owning your own sales until you dealt with companies like Amazon that would not share their data. I mean, that's an important thing is owning the information to understand your customer.

Kara Goldin:
A hundred percent. It really goes back to the purpose of the company. I didn't start this company because I wanted to run a beverage company. I started it because I actually saw that by making the shift away from diet soda to drinking water that tasted better, I got healthier and my family got healthier. And so I thought, if I can actually get to those people who are trying to do exactly what I was trying to do, then that would ultimately help me to grow my business.

Kara Goldin:
But again, Jeff Bezos, we love Amazon, we still sell through Amazon. For us, amazon is just like another retailer, just like a Whole Foods or Kroger or anybody else that we sell through that ultimately owns their own data. But we wanted the option to be able to communicate and get to know our customer as well. And that's really, especially during a time like COVID where out of stock situations and stores on Amazon as well, and everybody was just trying to keep up, we thought we can just go directly from our warehouse and ship directly to these consumers.

Kara Goldin:
And so that business has almost tripled since March for us. It's been really crazy. And again, because we have that relationship with the consumer. It's not that we are shutting down any of those other relationships, it's just that they're trying to manage not just us, but a lot of other vendors as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I think that lesson goes to the heart of everything. Whether it's your business or your life, it's important to have that control.

Kara Goldin:
Totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one other final topic I just wanted to touch on. Towards the end of the book, you talk a little bit about FOMO. Because you're in California, you see a lot of entrepreneurs, I'm sorry, not entrepreneurs, you see a lot of people working for big companies and making all this money as employees because of stock options and stuff. This is going on while you, I have this vision of you and your family like hauling these boxes and boxes of Hint water to go to stores yourself. Because a lot of this, you're doing yourself. You're funding it yourself. Talk about FOMO when you're building something, not necessarily even an entrepreneurial venture, but just in life. We tend to look at other people and feel like everyone's having this grand thing and it's so much harder for us.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah, I think it really just goes back to knowing your purpose. Yes, you will see people with nicer houses and better clothes from Barneys or whatever. I guess there's not Barneys anymore-

Bobbi Rebell:
Barneys went out of business, so there's a lesson right there.

Kara Goldin:
I've been so busy. I have not really focused on that at the moment, but it's really understanding what your purpose is. And again, just going back to the mission, and that's the most important thing. Because there will always be people who have nicer cars and houses and whatever, but if you're doing something that is meaningful, and I think health is incredibly meaningful to people. I think it's the number one thing that I see everyone focusing on today. Like nobody actually wants to get this disease. Wherever you live, how much money you have, how many stock options you have, everyone wants to stay healthy. And I think having a company that is ultimately focusing on that is something that I've reminded myself every single day is a good thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is a good thing. And thank you for all that you do. And by the way, people should understand, it was a natural brand extension to do different flavors of water, to do carbonated water and so on, but then your other brand extensions have not been necessarily about beverages. So even though we think of Hint big picture as a beverage company, you're now into suntan lotion, which you, again, had personal reasons, which people should read the book to find out more about, and then you're in deodorant. And is it antiperspirant or deodorant? Because you actually clarify the difference in the book as well.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah. So it's deodorant, but moving away from antiperspirant because all antiperspirant contains aluminum, which, going back to kind of a family health issue around Alzheimer's that I was grappling with, I saw that we could actually solve a problem for most consumers. Most consumers don't actually understand the difference between deodorant and antiperspirant-

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah, and why they shouldn't have it until it's too late. The hardest thing for consumers today is even when you shop at the best stores or you see celebrities holding a lot of these products, you just don't ultimately really understand how that could impact your health until it is too late. And so I thought it's my responsibility to actually try to show people what the difference is.

Kara Goldin:
And what I learned really by doing those products too about just the overall mission of the company is it's not just to help consumers, but it's also to help categories and other brands, like suntan category and also the personal care category as a whole. Because I really believe that if we can actually lead and some of these other large brands that are not really doing great for the consumer follows, that's okay too. That to me is incredibly motivating to know that companies were actually following us to actually create products, for example, that don't have oxybenzone in them. Which is true. I mean, we were not seeing products prior to us launching sunscreen that really called attention on the front of the package to say no oxybenzone. That to me is leading in an industry.

Kara Goldin:
Little Hint. That's what's so crazy. And that really is what the impact of what entrepreneurism is. It's not just about starting a company for money, it's actually creating change. And that is what everybody can do. And everybody sees holes in their life that can be solved. And if you really think that you can go and solve those problems, you have an idea, just try and figure it out. It doesn't matter if you don't have experience. And that's really what you're going to hear out of my book and hopefully will motivate people to go and create other companies. That's what we need.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the book is Undaunted: Overcoming Doubts and Doubters.

Episode Links:

• Kara’s website - www.drinkhint.com

• Kara’s book Undaunted - www.drinkhint.com/FinancialGrownup

Follow Kara + Hint!

• Instagram - @hint

• Facebook - @hint

• Twitter - @hint

• Pinterest - @hintwater

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Getting a PhD was an expensive, and time consuming investment for Elizabeth Segran. So the decision to leave academia did not come lightly. We discuss the season of her life when she came to the realization that it was time to pivot, and the financial grownup moment that clarified what she really wanted to be doing. 

Elizabeth’s Money Story:

Elizabeth Segran:
Absolutely. When I was 25, I took myself to a small village in India called Pondicherry as part of my research. I spent six weeks, the whole summer, walking through this tiny town, learning the language, floating on little boats in the water, exploring the food. And all of this was part of the research that I was doing. And it was one of the most remarkable experiences of my life. But what I'll tell you is that I had very little money in my bank account, and I was spending my 20s gathering all of these experiences, trying to figure out what I really wanted from life, and throughout that process, I wasn't making any money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how did you feel about it at the time versus how you feel about it now?

Elizabeth Segran:
People often ask me, was it valuable for you to go do a PhD? Especially since, as I explained in my book, I entered the job market in the middle of the great recession. There were no jobs in my field. And so I had to rethink what I wanted to do, and I eventually became a fashion journalist for a business magazine called Fast Company. And I also am now a writer of books. And people are like what were you doing? Did you feel like it was a waste of time? And my answer is always, absolutely not.

Elizabeth Segran:
For those of us who are in our 20s and 30s, millennials and Gen Z, it is far more important for us to find work that aligns with our values, passions, and identity, than to think purely about compensation. And that sets us apart from our parents' generation, who were primarily interested in work that would pay the bills, and that would give us some sort of social status in life. For those of us who are in our 20s and 30s, we know that we're going to be working for 40, 50 years. And we know that that work is going to take so much from us. And so it is so important for us to spend our 20s figuring out what that path is.

Elizabeth Segran:
And for me, that was being in this tiny village in India. I didn't make a lot of money in those years, but I did get a very clear sense of what I value and what I want to be doing with my life. It took being away from the United States, being in this country, spending a lot of time reading and doing all this research about India and my culture and all of these different things that gave me a sense of what I really want to do in life. And so I would not trade that for the world.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to know your opinion then on this pushback we're getting during the coronavirus pandemic. So many colleges are conducting classes virtually, and it's not the same experience for all the obvious reasons, but then there's this idea of what are we really paying for with an education? And the value of that four year traditional bachelor degree and we can extrapolate that to go all the way forward to a PhD when there's now a case being made for people just learning a trade. Is there still value in this whole idea of this extended period of higher education? What do you think about that whole idea that's being discussed now?

Elizabeth Segran:
I'm really sad to hear that many colleges are not just thinking about transitioning to remote learning during this period, but potentially make that part of their coursework going forward. And I'm really sad as well that the higher education is on the brink of collapse, and many people are not going to be able to get PhDs and other degrees going forward.

Elizabeth Segran:
Because there's lots of things that you can learn on the job. For me, I left with my PhD and then I became a journalist. I learned so much while I was practicing the work that I'm doing. And I think that that's true of many jobs. You learn on the job. But what you can't replace in higher that broadening of the mind, reading a lot. I'm spending time with other people asking really difficult questions about what life is about. All of that.

Elizabeth Segran:
It seems so frivolous, especially at a time when the economy is on the brink of collapse, but that is what we need in order to figure out what we want to be as individuals and as a society. It's in those conversations that we figure out what we want the world to be like. If we're closing off the spaces where we can have those conversations, those in-person discussions, the ability to travel to different locations and study abroad and explore other cultures, all of this stuff, if this goes away, I think that we're going to lose something very important.

“There has been this ideal of finding your dream job throughout history but for most of time people didn’t have the ability to actually do that kind of work.”

Elizabeth’s Money Lesson:

Elizabeth Segran:
Here's the main thing that I would like to communicate. I think that we're really lucky because we are among the first generations in the history of mankind who can find work that is an extension of our identity and ourselves. There's been this ideal of finding your dream job throughout history, but for most of time, people didn't have the ability to actually do that kind of work. For most of history, you had to be a farmer because that was the only work available to you. Or you had to learn a trade among a very small number of options that was out there. And even for our parents' generation, this notion was crystallizing, but the data shows that most people were still mostly interested in finding work that paid the bills.

Elizabeth Segran:
That is not true for us. We have the opportunity to find work and pursue work that aligns with who we are. And that is a huge gift. I think our 20s should really be spent trying to figure out what that work is for us and being patient with ourselves and going on these winding journeys to find it.

Elizabeth Segran:
Now, the data shows that 50% of people will eventually find work that is not just merely satisfying to them, but that exceeds their expectations. This is amazing news. Most of us will eventually find work that really makes us happy and really aligns with our identity.

Elizabeth Segran:
Now, the flip side to that is that it is really easy for employers to exploit workers who are working primarily out of a sense of purpose and out of a sense of passion, rather than trying to find good compensation. If we as workers are pursuing our work because we're passionate about it, it's really easy for employer to say that is compensation in itself. We're not going to pay you that much. Or, you're enjoying being part of the culture at this company, as a result, we're going to not compensate you enough. That is the downside to this new philosophy of work. And so the advice that I would give to people is once you figured out your path and you found work that is really engaging and passionate and that you will be able to do for the next 40 years, and it'll keep you happy. Once you've found that, you need to be really cautious about ensuring that you are properly compensated and that you have a good insurance and that you have good benefits because it's really easy to be exploited in this new way that we work.

“It is really easy for employers to exploit workers who are working primarily out of a sense of purpose and out of a sense of passion rather than trying to find good compensation.”

Elizabeth’s Money Tip:

Elizabeth Segran:
When you are considering taking a job, I would really caution you not to get distracted by shiny things that an employer puts in front of you like, "We have unlimited cold brew coffee on tap," or, "We have an amazing foosball table that our employees use," or "We have nap pods." I think it's really easy to get sold that this is a company that really wants to create an amazing culture and make you feel at home and all of that, because what you really need to be focused on is what is the salary that they're paying you? Is it on par with the market? Are you going to negotiate to make sure that you're getting paid appropriately? What is the benefits package like?

Elizabeth Segran:
I think it's really easy for brands to try and convince you that the work that you're so passionate about and the culture of the workplace that you're looking at is more important than your salary. And so you just need to not take the bait.

“It is really easy for brands to try and convince you that the work that you are so passionate about and the culture of the workplace that you are looking at is more important than your salary so you just need to not take the bait.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Elizabeth is adamant that we not allow ourselves to get exploited, and she is so right. But she also makes sure that we know that you have to be deliberate in the industry that you choose to join, because we can only control what we can control, which is our own choices for the most part. We can't change an entire industry's pay scale or the number of jobs that there are in the industry. She learned that pretty quickly about the academic world. You can read more about this in her book, but she goes into her decision to leave academia where only a small fraction of PhDs, and yes, she spent years getting one, actually work their making a grownup salary. Rather than just keep fighting, what is a harsh reality, but is reality, she went into a field that she also loved and where she was able to negotiate the right compensation for the work. And so she is doing something she's passionate about and she is getting paid.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Cut your losses. Whether it's a PhD, a law degree or whatever, if you spent money for an expensive education, the money has gone, regardless. The time has gone, regardless. When we were talking before the interview, I asked Elizabeth how she felt about spending so much time and money on a degree that she wasn't really using. PhDs, honestly, I'm intimidated by the whole idea. It is a lot of time. It is a big chunk of your life. But she still feels it was super valuable. And that education has a lot of value in and of itself. Yes, it is ridiculously too expensive right now, but that kind of education is not the same as a quick online course that teaches you job specific skills.

Episode Links:

• Elizabeth’s website - www.elizabethsegran.com

Follow Elizabeth!

• Instagram - @lizsegran

• Twitter - @LizSegran

• Facebook - @elizabeth.segran

• LinkedIn - @elizabethsegran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After 300 episodes Bobbi shares some of her hardest times as a financial grownup. 

Bobbi shares the Financial Grownup lessons she’s learned from her failures throughout life and how to put a positive spin on those failures.

Follow Bobbi

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter - @bobbirebell

• Facebook - @bobbirebell

Please rate and review the podcast HERE! Your review helps others, like you, to find the podcast!

On a very special episode, More Than Me founder Tiffany Smiley shares the story of her husband’s brush with death, his subsequent blindness, and how she became a financial grownup because of it. Plus Tiffany's money tip on how to improve your personal finances during the pandemic.  

Tiffany’s Money Story:

Tiffany Smiley:
At 23, I was a nurse. I was emergency room nurse. Had my bachelor's in Science and Nursing. I loved helping people ever since I was in kindergarten. When they asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up," I wrote, "I want to be a nurse." It just was in me. And so there was no question out of high school, what I was going to go do. And so I went to school to get my bachelor's in Science. Married my high school sweetheart Scotty, who was a military academy grad. And I always joke that it was the picture of the American dream. He was a newly commissioned officer in the military, and I was a nurse, and our new last name was Smiley. You can't get a better last name than that.

Tiffany Smiley:
But it was the picture of the American dream. Until April 6th of 2005, when I received a phone call at 3:00 AM in the morning. And I was excited, because Scotty would call it different times. But this time it was someone else's voice on the other line. And they said, "I'm so sorry, but Scotty has come face to face with a suicide car bomb." He had been deployed in Iraq. "And there are shrapnel in both of his eyes. And I don't even know if he's going to survive." And this strong leader just broke down and started sobbing on the phone to me. So at 23 years old, my world blew up into a million pieces as well on that day.

Tiffany Smiley:
The next day I resigned from my nursing job, and I took my first one-way flight to meet Scotty out at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, DC. And I remember getting there and feeling so overwhelmed, and feeling the weight of the situation. And I remember thinking, "You just resigned from your job. Scotty is about to have no job. He's completely blind. The army doesn't want him anymore. And you're 23-24 years old. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out of this?" And it was in that moment that I realized, we really can create the future that we want. But you have to be willing to work hard for it, and believe in that vision more than anyone else's doubt.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also had to take charge of all the finances.

Tiffany Smiley:
Exactly. I resigned from my nursing job. I walk into this situation, and all of a sudden I'm in charge of all of my finances, all of our finances, my student loan debt, our car payment, our rental. And I remember the stress of just having to figure it all out. The silver lining of it is that there's always people that can help. And I realized that very quickly, that I needed to reach out and not just hold it so close, and not share it. But say, "Hey, I need help with this. I need help." Ask. The answer is always no, unless you ask. And so I, all of a sudden, became in charge of it all, in charge of our future, in charge of making sure that we could put the puzzle pieces back together.

Tiffany Smiley:
My money story is that I went from a nurse. So I resigned for my nursing job. I realized very quickly, that's not going to be something I'm going to go back to. That my new future is going to take what I learned in nursing, and I'm going to have to create something totally different to fit my lifestyle. And so I refused to sign paperwork to retire my husband from the military. That allowed him to stay on active duty, which was a huge benefit to our family. And as he stayed on active duty, he went on and did some really amazing things. He wrote a book, he skydived, climbed Mount Rainier, he went to Duke and got his MBA.

Tiffany Smiley:
And in the process of writing his book, I said, "You're not just going to write this and have it go away." So I started a speaking business. And I always laugh, because I'm biology and science. And then I remember being on the phone with accountants crying like, "What do you mean you want a spreadsheet, and what are these numbers?" But you really can figure it out along the way. I never, in a million years, would have thought a source of income for our family in a way of paying off our student loans, and finding space to put a down payment on a house would come from a speaking business.

“It really comes down to being the champion of your own life.”

Tiffany’s Money Lesson:

Tiffany Smiley:
It really comes to being the champion of your own life. And in whatever that looks like, whether you're peeling yourself off the ground, like I had to at rock bottom. But saying, "I'm going to champion this life and I'm going to be a self learner. I'm going to dig deep," because the answers are out there. And I learned that, even though it was hard starting that business. I had no idea about the speaking world. But I learned so much along the way. And I'm so glad. I look back now and I think, I'm so glad I did that.

Tiffany Smiley:
I've learned so much from other people. I've learned so much about running a business. And I do love my accountants now. I wouldn't survive without them. But had I not forced myself into that uncomfortable area, I don't think we'd be living in the freedom that we have now. And so I would just say, be the champion of your life, and be as self learner. Because there is so much knowledge out there. And if I can do it, anyone can do it. You can save a lot of money by being a self learner. And to me, you save money and time. And time is money. So I would just encourage whoever's listening to this, to think outside the box, to champion your own life, and go out and be a self learner.

“You’ve got to dive into books. There is so much knowledge in books. Reach out of your comfort zone.”

Tiffany’s Money Tip:

Tiffany Smiley:
I think number one is, you've got to dive into books. There's so much knowledge in books. One that I just read that I love was by Sallie Krawcheck, Own It. So I always feel like I would reach out to spaces that I'm not very comfortable with. Like I would say that's probably not a book I would normally buy, but I wanted to learn, and I want it to be better. And so I think, reach out of your comfort zone, and read some books that maybe scare you a little bit, or you wouldn't normally pick up.

Tiffany Smiley:
Also there's resources. And people. I always say that we are each other's greatest asset. And we need to tap into each other a lot more. Because something you learned could be something you pass on to me, and it helps me in my business. And just like we hosted in More Than Me, we had you come on, Bobbi, for our expert coaching call, and help the women in our coaching call. I think discussing it, not being afraid to discuss hard topics or money topics or finance, that's something that helped me along the way. So I would say, reach out, grab some books, look for extra resources that are out there, whether they're membership groups, or of course your podcasts, Bobbi. There is knowledge, so much knowledge out there for us to get ahold of.

Tiffany Smiley:
And something I always love to do was after I'd read a book, I would discuss it with someone. So I wouldn't just hold it here close to me. I would go to someone, whether it was a mentor or a friend or someone else in business, and I would run the ideas by them, see if they'd heard of them, discuss them, and ask questions that I had in my own life. And I think there's a lot of value to that. It's very simple. But I think it's something we could all do, especially right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have some resources that you can share with people. How can they learn more about what you're doing, and about you and your husband?

“We are each others greatest asset and we need to tap into each other more.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Tiffany advises that we read a book out of our comfort zone, and then talk about it with someone else. I'm going to add to that, and suggest that we reread books we read when we were younger. Our perspectives change so much. Maybe choose something you read in high school, maybe even middle school. I bet you see it a little bit differently.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Tiffany talks about learning from other people. But other people can also learn from you. So if you have someone in your life that you can help out, maybe take them under your wings a little bit, consider the time to help them learn from you.

Episode Links:

• Tiffany’s website - tiffanysmiley.com

• More Than Me

Follow Tiffany!

• Instagram - @tiffanysmiley9 + @morethanmemvmt

• Twitter - @TiffanySmiley9

• Facebook - @TiffanyMaeSmiley + @morethanmemvmt

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When Anna Gifty Opoku-Agyeman looked for ways to fund her education, she deliberately chose to focus her studies on areas where there were ample opportunities for financial support like grants and scholarships for minorities. The Sadie Collective is the first and only organization that  uniquely addresses the underrepresentation of black women in economics and related fields. 

Anna’s Money Story

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about, for your money story, you want to share how you got your education funded. We are in a time when there's so much controversy about how expensive an education is. We're in transition with this virtual learning. How did you successfully fund your education?

Anna Gifty:
When I first applied to college, I didn't have any financial aid. I actually applied to college park and I was admitted. And I went there for my first semester of college, and I left eventually and transfer to the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, where I graduated. And so the question, or the conversation rather, that I have with my parents was about how do we go about funding my education in state. The only reason I really stayed in state was to minimize the cost. I know there were other schools that I was interested in, especially within the DC area, since I'm interested in policy and economics. I was like, "Yeah. I definitely want to go to George Washington. But George Washington university is also one of the most expensive universities in America." So I knew that I wasn't going to get financial aid. I didn't want to get loans.

Anna Gifty:
And that was one thing that my parents also emphasized. They really did not want to get loans essentially. And my dad at the time, was also in school. And so that was the thinking that was going into how do I map out my own educational trajectory in terms of funding. In terms of when I transferred to UMBC, one thing I recognized was that there were individuals who seem to be getting paid over the Summer. I didn't know how they were doing it, but I did know that they were in STEM. And I did know that they were getting funded in terms of housing, food, and just the stipend. And I was trying to figure out how exactly are they accomplishing that?

Anna Gifty:
And that led me to connect with several different communities on campus, including the Meyerhoff scholars that I mentioned before. But also MARC U-STAR, which is now you ride scholars. And the MARC U-STAR program is really what ushered me into this world of research, and exposed me to the fact that there's actually a lot of funding opportunities for those who are interested in getting a PhD or doing some research related field. A lot of government agencies, as well as foundations will actually throw money at you to go and do these things professionally, because of the lack of diversity in those fields.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very interesting. So I'm hearing the first thing you did, is you thought realistically about what was worth the dollars. What's the return on the money in choosing the school. And then the second thing you did is you followed the money. You didn't look at a field that some people might look at that, and I don't want to call anything out as a journalist. But there are certain fields that have more funding and certain fields that don't, because of the market demands. You are looking and seeing the market had demand for people in STEM, especially recruiting probably women and minorities. And so you thought, "when I'm choosing what to do in life and what to study, I'm going to go where there's a need and therefore where the money is." So continue. Tell us the rest of your story.

Anna Gifty:
Sure. So what that led me to do, at the time I was a biology major. But I was exposed to this field of research, and biomedical research, and noticing that there was a lot of funds. I'm the kind of person where when I find out information, I am happy to share it with my colleagues and those who are coming behind me. And so there were a lot of different scholarship programs that were coming up through the NIH, coming up through the NSF. NSF by the way, is the National Science Foundation. NIH is the National Institutes of Health. And they have a lot of government funding to get more minorities into the biomedical profession. But at the same time, I also got exposed to data analysis, and that is what really led me to go and pursue mathematics. I ended up changing my major in my junior year. Which at first was kind of scary for my parents, but it paid off.

Anna Gifty:
So essentially when I switched to math, I also recognized that there was this field called economics, after having several conversations with colleagues and friends and teachers and other professors across the country. And that economics specifically, is the world's best kept secret, in terms of a profession that gives you guaranteed funding for your graduate education. You're definitely going to get a job after you graduate. And so thinking about all of these things, I said, okay. Economics is really something that I think for me, it speaks to the kind of questions I want to answer, but they also have tremendous funding opportunities. And one thing that I noticed was that there were internships that would pay tens of thousands of dollars for you to just go there and do some data analysis for somebody. And so that's something that I ended up doing. So I actually ended up participating in a Summer program that was in partnership with UMBC called the University of Chicago bridge program. And that allowed me to actually pay off the rest of my tuition for that year.

“A lot of people have money to give but it’s not until you approach them and ask them about it that they actually tell you where the money is.”

Anna’s Money Lesson

Anna Gifty:
My advice is simply to think about the different funding opportunities that are available within your field, and to be optimistic about that. What I mean is that, even if you're a journalism major, there's definitely funding for journalism majors. And so you have to go out and look at your network as well as your academic and professional resources, to see where the money is. A lot of people also have money to give, but it's not until you approach them and ask them about it, that they actually tell you where the money is. And so that's another piece of advice I would share with individuals.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do we even find those people though? If they're not advertising and they're not listed somewhere, where do you even begin? Especially now when everyone's stuck at home?

Anna Gifty:
That's exactly right. I think one thing that we have at our fingertips is the internet. So, actually doing a cold search, and looking up different opportunities and whether or not things align with where you are in life. But I think the other thing to look into, is people you're actually close with. You guys have professors or maybe bosses that might have access to networks that actually have access to capital. Those are the people you really want to tap in. Kind of drawing on the relationships that you have currently, to really build upon a network that allows you to gain access to funding, to do what you really want to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any examples of what you would say in an email?

Anna Gifty:
That's a good question. The first thing I would say is obviously, "Hello. Thank you so much for allowing me to reach out." But then what I would go in and say is that, I'm somebody who's looking for funding opportunities right now for X, Y, Z. Can we get on a call? Can we talk a little bit more about this? And I think that you have to approach it like that. You can't say, "Can I talk to you so I can get money?" That's not how you want to approach it. You want to say, "Can I talk to you so I can learn more." That way, that gives room for that individual to actually speak on their expertise and their knowledge about the topic. They may actually tell you way more than you were going to initially ask for. And that's what you want to do in leaving room during the email.

Bobbi Rebell:
You make a really good point about listening. Because when you let them talk, you may discover that they have a need that you can fill, and get to know them better, and then develop that relationship.

Anna Gifty:
That is my hack for life. I always say that when you ask people enough about themselves, at some point, they will say, "What about you?" And that's when you can talk a little bit about your journey.

“When you ask people enough about themselves at some point they will say “what about you” and that is when you can talk about your journey.”

Anna’s Money Tip

Bobbi Rebell:
So for your everyday money tip, you have some advice, especially for young people who have to approach both the maybe Summer Internships, or their first jobs. And they're coming out of school at a very fragile economy, should they just take anything they should get? Or do you still have any leverage? And if so, how do you even ask?

Anna Gifty:
That's a tricky question, and it's a question I'm currently dealing with right now. And I think it depends on what you ultimately want to gain from the kind of job that you end up doing. So if you really just need a job, of course if somebody offers you a job, go take it. But if you are really trying to maximize the skills that you've been able to acquire over your collegiate education, then yeah. It might be worth waiting it out just a little bit, to see if something better comes along.

Anna Gifty:
I will say transparently in the economics world, they're going to be hiring like business as usual in the Fall. Because they're not deeply affected by what's happening versus the retail space. Which I think that obviously a lot of those jobs are just being destroyed by the fact that people aren't shopping, right? So I think you really want to gauge what industry are you in? Is it necessary for you to be working at this very moment? And third of all, is there a way for you to draw on the networks that you already have to gain access to the resources that you hope to get?

Bobbi Rebell:
And of course, echoing what we said earlier, think about the field that you're in. Think about the longterm viability of your career choices, and maybe you have to pivot.

Anna Gifty:
That's exactly it.

“I am the kind of person that when I find out information I am happy to share it with my colleagues and those who are coming behind me.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Take a good hard look at where your money is going and don't be in denial. I joked about it, but it's actually no joke. Fields like journalism are consolidating and having a tough time. I have so many friends that have been laid off and are taking large pay cuts, and really are still likely to be laid off even if they are still employed. They're really worried. So if you want to earn money, why would you go where the money is not? Now, I'm not putting down journalism per se, I love what I do. But you should think about the economics of the career that you are looking at. Anna is looking forward and sees a deep need for really smart data analysis and economics related jobs.

She will be in demand, and will have a negotiating leverage. When it comes to getting paid, she can ask for more money. Follow where the money is and where it will be, and get real about where the money used to be and maybe is no longer. There's a reason I have multiple income streams, but that's for another podcast.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Ask for the money even if it's not being openly offered, Anna says, "A lot of people have money to give, but it's not until you approach them and ask them about it, that they actually tell you where the money is." I am not a scholarship expert, but I know from some of the guests that we have had on this podcast, that a lot of money really does go unclaimed. Take the time to look and to ask. And that goes for any opportunity.

Episode Links:

• Anna’s website - www.annagifty.com

Follow Anna!

• Instagram - @annagiftyo

• Twitter - @itsafronomics

• LInkedIn - @annagifty

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur coach Cait Scudder built a 6 figure business while living abroad overcoming numerous obstacles. She shares her specific strategies to help build a grownup business focused on sustainable product growth and revenue streams. 

5 essential ways to create a successful business

Cait Scudder:
Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here and I'm so excited to be talking about this. I think for so many entrepreneurs, creating a successful business, whether you're running it from a laptop or abroad or whether you're running it out of your living room, feels like it's this enigmatic thing. So, I'm really excited to break down some really tangible steps to help your listeners apply it to their own businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm a little bit of a snob about this. I don't like all this mumbo jumbo. You are specific, and focused, and I love that. So, you've got five tips and then we have some other special stuff after this. So, stick with us, guys. Number one is basically, figure out the problem that you're going to solve for people, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, the first thing I would say if you are looking to build a six-figure business, and scale it to multiple six figures and beyond, is you have to be so crystal clear on the problem that you help people solve. It is not enough to just say, "Well, I want to be a consultant for leaders" or "I want to be a health coach" or whatever other niche that you're in. Dial that right in to get so specifically clear on the problem that you help your clients solve and how you do that with the solution that you offer.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what would be an example of a client that had this problem and how do they really figure out what problem they were solving for?

Cait Scudder:
So, one of the exercises that I lead my clients through, let's take a health-coaching coach, for example. If you are looking to build out a health-coaching business, somebody who helps their clients achieve either weight loss or higher levels of energy, the problem that you might help somebody solve is losing 15 pounds or losing 20 pounds. What you need to do if you want to dial that right in and then be able to build a compelling brand and a compelling message from that is, get super clear. Not only on that problem point as if it's a bullet point in your notebook, but what's the pain that somebody is experiencing as a result of having that problem? So, one of the things that I think happens a lot is entrepreneurs get stuck in this messaging spiral of, well, I'm listing out my client's problems, but they're not responding.

Cait Scudder:
I think the biggest thing that happens when we do that is that we're not actually speaking to the pain, the ripple effect pain I call it, that those problems caused. So, for example, if a client is struggling with low energy, they're feeling overweight, they're feeling not confident in their bodies, how is that actually playing out in their lives? Maybe they can't walk up the stairs without running out of breath. Maybe they can't bend over to pick up their grandchild and not feel like they have to sit down. So, really dialing your messaging straight in to the problem that you help people solve. The pain that it's going to help them get out of in painting the picture and creating offers that help somebody do that in a step-by-step way is such a powerful step for your business and for your marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your second tip, which is to figure out what exactly the offer is.

Cait Scudder:
Exactly. So, the second thing that you need to do is build out an offer. I always say to my clients, especially who offer their services, so consultants, any kind of strategists is, it's very, very important to be able to build a product in your client's mind as if it were a tangible product that you could put on top of your desk. So, if you're offering a six-month consultancy package or a retainer offer, what does that look like? What's the result that somebody is going to get? And the way that you want to think about your offers is in two different pieces. The first is the framework, and the second are the features. So, your framework might look like, for example, in my business coaching consultancy, I have a framework that's based on three different things: energy, strategy, and sales. When you can nail all three of those as a business owner, you are golden.

Cait Scudder:
So, the energy piece is, what does your vibe put out? How are you attracting your ideal client, how you are attracting your audience. The second piece of strategy is, what are the offers that you're building out? How are we marketing you in a way that is magnetic in a way that draws your people in? And thirdly, in sales, obviously, we need to make sales if we're going to be in business. So, what I really recommend entrepreneurs to do if they're struggling to build out an offer, is think about what's the framework that you move somebody through and what are the features? How long is your package for? What does it include? What's the scope of work? And when you can be so specifically clear on the process that you move somebody through, the framework, and the way that you do that in the tangible breakdown, the features, that's when you really have a rock-solid offer to bring to the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third thing is something I am so uncomfortable with myself, get comfortable with marketing. It is so hard, Cait. I feel this personally.

Cait Scudder:
Really, Bobbi? You're definitely not alone. And I have to be honest, at the beginning when I started my business, I felt so uncomfortable with it. I felt like, "Hang on, squawking about all of this stuff that I do for other people like this is so uncomfortable." Here's what I've come to see it as. When you are marketing your services or your products or your free content even, because let's be real, promoting a podcast or promoting a blog article, all of that is marketing. You are educating and you are empowering your audience with pieces of content, with pieces of information, and pieces of education that help them move towards a result. And I think that when you can have that internal shift as an entrepreneur from, "Oh, this is so self-indulgent. Who would want to read about this? This is so self-aggrandizing." And really flip that script to say, "Hey, me showing up and waving this flag loud and proud is helping somebody else who's seeing this achieve a result," and that is such an empowered place both for you and for your audience.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fourth one, also a pain point for me, confidence in selling. I always struggle with this, Cait. I really do.

Cait Scudder:
You know what? I hear you and especially for women, Bobbi, I personally think that we are not necessarily taught to move into a sales conversation or move into a sales context, with the same level of permission and confidence that for whatever reason I feel like men just intrinsically feel. I'm sure that's not the case for everybody, but I definitely know so many women who struggle with this piece.

Cait Scudder:
Here's my take on this. When you sell somebody your product or your service, you are giving them the pathway to a solution. If you don't sell, if you don't speak about what your offer is, if you never let somebody know how they can work with you and what's possible as a result, you are literally robbing from them the possibility for getting that result and you helping them. And I think when you really flip that script and look at, "Hang on, this is not just some selfish manipulative, greasy car salesman tactic. This is me showcasing the possibility that somebody has to achieve this solution with me." You really put yourself in the game, and you give your market confidence to buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the fifth thing is, be consistent.

Cait Scudder:
That is absolutely right. I think that there is no... One of the best pieces of advice, Bobbi, that I've ever been given in entrepreneurship is, don't get too high and don't get too low. When it comes to being your own boss and running things your own way, creating your own schedule, running your own team, there's so many opportunities to get knocked off your horse to feel like you just want to throw in the towel and crawl back into bed and you just don't want to do it. And that is the biggest thing that I think swipes entrepreneurs off their path is, feeling like I had a good day, I want to show up, had a bad day, I don't want to show up. Guys, if you take one thing away from this, let it be this. You are going to have great days. You're going to have hard days. It's your commitment to staying the course. That is the thing that's going to see you through. Just remember, you cannot fail if you just keep going.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want you to share, it's kind of a bonus for our listeners. You have a lot of everyday things that you do. Some things I do too that really help in terms of the day-to-day, like the way that you schedule your week, which is something I do as well.

Cait Scudder:
Yes, absolutely. So, one of the best hacks, oh my gosh, this just saves so much time, so much mental bandwidth for me is scheduling a CEO day. So, on Mondays, I mean, I'm on the phone a lot of the time, whether it's on the phone with clients, group calls, individual calls, collaborators, I'm on the phone a lot. Mondays are my CEO day, which means I don't take any calls. Monday is my day to work completely on my business, and not be in anybody else's business. And that has been so helpful for not only block scheduling and batching out what I need to do in a week, but also for keeping me super on point when I'm coaching on the other days and just very, very focused on what I need to do. I think that as entrepreneurs and as CEOs, one of our biggest forms of currency is our focus and our attention. So, scheduling in a CEO day is going to massively help you feel organized and sane as you move into the week. And I recommend doing it on a Monday because who doesn't love moving into the week feeling organized and sane?

Cait Scudder:
The second thing I would say is, create a little routine for yourself on a daily basis. And I don't mean wake up at 5:00 AM, meditate, do power yoga, sit in lotus for 25 minutes. No, you don't have to do any of that. For me, one of the things that I have is a non-negotiable. I wake up, I have some water with lemon, I exercise for half an hour to 45 minutes, and I move into my day after doing a little bit of gratitude practice. And I might think about things in the shower. I don't spend hours journaling in the morning. But I think that if you can mentally and physically prime your body in the morning, you're really setting yourself up for success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about the mindset that's involved because it's important that we be aware of what other people are doing. First of all, we learn from them and you should just always be aware of competition, let's be real. And also, I believe a lot of competition, it's actually expanding businesses. So, I believe in cooperation over competition in general, but it's also important not to compare too much, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, I think one of the biggest things that knocks us off our horse is this feeling of imposter syndrome of, "She's doing it better than me" or "they already have this established company" or "who am I to come into this space?" And I think whenever that happens, and let's be real, it happens for all of us, the most important way that we can shift out of that is moving your attention from comparison, from analyzing all of your flaws and your worthiness and your capability. Taking your attention off of all of that comparison and "not good enough" noise, and moving it back to a place of service, and moving it back to a place of all of the reasons why you and you alone are the best equipped to serve your people. Why you have moved through everything that you've been through in your life, in your business and your experience in order to be able to offer what you're doing.

Cait Scudder:
And just remember, if you are not showing up for your people, you're taking away from them the opportunity that they have to experience what's possible on the other side. So, the more that you can give yourself permission to let go of the comparing mind, which is our ego's way of keeping us safe, and go back to all of the ways that you're equipped to help somebody, you're going to be of so much more service and you're going to make a heck of a lot more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to finally just touch on something that you have some strong opinions on. And that is MLMs, multilevel marketing. It's important. There's some really good ones out there, but you also have a lot to say about the fact that some of them are scammy. What do people need to know?

Cait Scudder:
I think that there are a lot of amazing people out there building a successful business in network marketing. I think there are great companies out there that offer possibilities for people, but do your homework, guys. I think it's very important to know what you're getting into and to really... And this is the case, whether you're in an MLM or you're building your own business or you're working for somebody else, quite frankly, is you need to be 100% behind the mission, the ethos, the values of whatever it is that you're selling.

Cait Scudder:
So, rather than just looking at a shiny object as a way to make a little bit more money in your bank account month after month, really ask yourself, "Is being affiliated with this community or this company something that I'm going to feel proud of in 10 years? Do I align with the values and the greater impact that this company is making?" Because ultimately, whether you are just one person in a rank or you are an entrepreneur under your own brand, you are representing a brand and that brand is yourself. And so, you really want to make sure that you align at a deep level with whatever it is that you're standing behind.

Episode Links:

• Cait's website - www.caitscudder.com

• Cait’s podcast - Born To Rise

• Cait’s Ted Talk - www.caitscudder.com/episode/tedxtalk

Follow Cait!

• Instagram - @caitscudder

• YouTube

• Facebook - @caitloneragan

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Learn how to make 2020 the year you up your net worth with these specific and very do-able strategies that will motivate and inspire you. 

4 ways to increase your net worth in 2020

Bobbi:
And we're going to talk more about the specifics of the book, but first I want to get to these four ways to increase your net worth in 2020 that you have brought to us for this Financial Grownup guide episode. One whole chapter before we get into the four, one whole chapter of your book is actually becoming a net worth warrior.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And so much of what's in the book is really basic financial literacy and financial planning kind of ideas. Unfortunately those ideas have really gotten lost in it's the consumer society and we don't really give messages to people about financial literacy and how to build your net worth. So the whole idea of the book is to get some real concrete tips on how to build net worth.

Bobbi:
Before we get into your four ways that you brought to increase your net worth in 2020, let's just explain what exactly is your net worth. How do you calculate that? Because people kind of think they have an idea of what that is, but they may not know exactly how that is calculated, what's included and what's not.

Norm Champ:
The way to calculate your net worth is to make a balance sheet just like a business would. On the left hand side you list your assets. That's everything that you own, including things you own with debt. So home, car, savings accounts, securities account, your 401(k), any other retirement accounts. So all the assets on the left side. Then on the right hand side you put all of your liabilities, your mortgage, any other debt that you have, anything else where you owe money and it subtracts from the asset side.

Norm Champ:
So then you total up the left side, all your assets, you total up the right hand side, the liabilities, you subtract that and then the resulting number is your net worth. So what we're trying to do is build up that left hand side, build up the assets and cut down on the right hand side, cut down on the debt, so that you can increase your net worth.

Bobbi:
Great. And it takes patience. And it takes a lot of frankly being intentional. So we're going to go through these steps that you can take. And again, this is lifetime goals. This isn't something that's just going to happen overnight, but you have to start now. So the first thing that you talk about is cutting spending. And this isn't just about don't have those lattes. You talk about finding your inner governor. What does that mean? That's not a political statement.

Norm Champ:
No. And exactly is a joke in the book, it's not finding the politician running your State. So essentially we are living in a consumer society. You hear that all the time. What that means is our economy right now is primarily driven by consumer spending. I'm not so much of an unrealistic person to think we're going to stop that. However, consumer spending is not each person's friend when it comes to building their net worth. So I love your point about intentionality. You need to be intentional to reduce the spending side, because until you get the spending under control, any idea of getting out of debt, any idea of building net worth is a pretty distant goal. One of the things I talk about in the book is the subscription service mentality that we're in.

Bobbi:
Right. You say think before you click.

Norm Champ:
Think before you click. Every time you're on your phone, and literally, I mean it's gotten to absurd levels. Every time you download an app, Oh, just open an account and have a free trial and then you can always cancel. Well, human behavior and studies have shown people don't cancel. And I think the side in the book is people have nine apps that they don't use and that they're still being charged for. It's the average or something like that.

Norm Champ:
So it's just an example of how the consumer society gets you to spend and if we're going to get into positive net worth territory, we've got to get spending down. The apps are an easy one. You know the latte one is funny because you hear that all the time. I'm actually not a huge believer in that. If you want to get a cup of coffee, I would get a cup of coffee. But-

Bobbi:
It's meant to be a metaphor.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And I think you want to be very, very conscious of every message in our society is to buy and I think some of the best learning on this ever is the thought of listen, what do I really need? There's a great principle of, Hey, you could buy the 72 inch TV and do it on a layaway plan and all these other things, but do you really need that TV? Is your current 62 inch TV okay? And starting to really think through, do I need to buy these things?

Norm Champ:
Here's another great example. This one I didn't learn about until after I did the book. Almost a majority of Americans who have a car loan owe more on the car than the car is worth mostly by two to one. So around 40,000 in debt on cars that are worth around 20,000 you're asking how can that possibly be? It's because as you trade in cars and you get different ones, the debt keeps going up and you're never making any progress. Right? So the whole cutting spending side has to be the first principle. That's where we start out in the book with, because you've got to get a control of that side if you want to get to net worth.

Bobbi:
Right, and I think you make a good point about layaway plans. People are taking longer and longer loans for cars and that's why those car loans are getting a lot more attention. It's something we've covered actually on my other podcast, Money with Friends. We've done a bunch of episodes about how that consumer behavior towards cars and car buying is evolving. Let's get to number two and that is kind of the flip side. The sister to the spending is pay down your debt.

Norm Champ:
Debt has to be, if I want to single out one thing, it's the single most corrosive thing going on in our society. This is from the very top of the country all the way down. So we are now running massive deficits at the top level, at the government level. We have had low interest rates, although somewhat better return to more normal rates now, but we had zero interest rates for all the entire Obama administration.

Norm Champ:
So the whole society has moved towards debt. The problem with debt is that people keep incurring it for the spending we were talking about, and they're always incurring new debt and they're not paying off the old debt. And so that's how you end up with these balances rising up. And so it's very important to think about, you'll think super carefully about debt, I quote, it's Benjamin Franklin in the book.

Bobbi:
Yes, I love that quote. I was about to mention that.

Norm Champ:
It's just that debt gives someone else power over you and if want to make it to be a net worth warrior, if you want to get there, you've got to get out of debt. And so it's correlated to the first principle, right? You got to cut down on the spending so you can devote that money to paying down debt and the goal should be to get out of debt.

Norm Champ:
And one of the biggest ones which I devote an entire chapter to is home buying. Our government and our society continue to press home buying as a route to wealth. The only problem with that is talk to all those people that were closed on in 2009, in 2010, they're not going to tell you the home buying was a path to wealth. Before you buy a home, it's a financial decision just like any other, and it's the number one debt, typically the biggest debt any US citizens take on their life is their home debt. Make sure that you do that with an appropriate down payment and you're really intentional about what you're doing.

Norm Champ:
As I say in the book, everyone says rent is a waste of money. Well, in a mortgage, all you're doing is renting that money from the bank. So we've got to get real on the things we're spending and going into debt for and get that debt down. And it is tough, right? It's always easier to do the new spending than pay off the old, but it's a critical part of building net worth.

Bobbi:
Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. Okay, the third way to increase your net worth, you talk about taking advantage of a 401(k) and that really goes ... I mean in your book you talk about the tax free investing. You have a whole chapter on that.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. You know something is good if the government is trying to get at it. So remember that the Obama administration proposed taxing people's 529 college savings plans, that quickly to hide a political death. But the 529s, the 401(k)s, IRAs, these are all the rare gifts of the tax code. Generally the tax code takes from you. These accounts allow you to grow money tax free. Now whether it's a Roth or traditional, it has different tax impacts, but either way you are allowed to grow your money in those accounts tax free.

Norm Champ:
There's no better way to build net worth than to take advantage of those tax free accounts and they are part of your net worth. Don't think of them as retirement accounts. Think of them as part of your net worth. And if you get, you should max your contribution to them and max any employer contribution to them.

Bobbi:
Right and don't exactly. The employer contribution is very important. Let's explain that. You can basically get in some cases as much as 100% return on whatever part the employer is matching, which is a better return than you're going to get in almost any mainstream investment, right?

Norm Champ:
As I say in the book, it's free money and anytime they offer you free money, there's the old saying, when they hand you money take it. When you get the chance to get free money from your employer in your 401(k), you have to take it. Unfortunately, statistics show low participation rates in 401(k) and then low participation with the match. And that's just free money that people are leaving on the table. And to your point, your return on that money is 100% because it's just free to you.

Norm Champ:
And then secondly, once you have it in your account and it grows tax free, then you get a compounding effect of that. And particularly for young people. But even later in life you're talking decades of investing in tax free and compounding in that account, there's nothing more valuable. And I just urge people to think of those accounts as part of their net worth, not as retirement accounts. They are part of your net worth.

Bobbi:
Right. And the fourth way to increase your net worth in 2020 that you want to talk about is the actual investing component. You say in the book that if you can read, you can manage your portfolio. A lot of people are intimidated. It's important also to understand that the vehicle we just talk about, the vehicles are buckets effectively. You don't just put money into a 401(k), you then have to invest it, it has to go somewhere. And those are choices that you have to make. You can't just put it there or it's basically like stuffing it under a mattress. Yes, you're getting the tax savings in the match, but then it has to go somewhere.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And this point about investing, if I think of my time in the US government at the Securities Exchange Commission, this had to be the most traumatic thing I learned there, which is you see headlines about the SEC working on big cases around big financial firms and all that kind of stuff. But the vast majority of those cases are a teeny little percentage. The vast majority of what the SEC works on is something called affinity fraud.

Norm Champ:
This is where someone in your church group, someone in your community group, someone in your friend group, unfortunately people turn money over to them and that money typically gets stolen. And the reason for this is that people are scared of investing. To your point, they just don't know what to do with it. Don't know where to go with it. Oh, the nice young man in my church group said he would handle it. And of course the money's never seen again.

Norm Champ:
And so, one of the basic points that I make in the book is until you get to, I just picked half a million dollars, but there's no magic number. But until you get to a significant net worth, there's no reason to do anything other than divide your money between stocks and bonds and mutual funds. Mutual funds are low cost. They're regulated very closely by the federal government. We have never had a mutual fund failure that cost anyone money. It doesn't mean the investments are going to go up, but they are heavily regulated. They're intended for the retail investor and they've become very cheap. if you look at the cost ratios, they've gotten incredibly cheap as far as fees.

Norm Champ:
My real point on this is don't be afraid because it's the fear of investing that leads people to the scam artists, the affinity frauds. And so don't be afraid. Do the simple formula that I have in the book of the split between stocks and bonds, go into your 401(k) or your taxable County, you're absolutely right. These are just buckets of money, taxable and nontaxable. Go in there and get your asset allocation set up and then forget about it. You're not going to trade, you're a busy person, you're hiring those mutual fund managers to do it for you. And it's a very safe way to invest.

Norm Champ:
Again, it doesn't mean you're going to make money. However, over the longterm, I just was reading an article over the longterm stocks remain at about an 11% return per year. There's obviously big ups and downs in that. The key is to stay in these funds and let them reinvest and let them ride out over time. And on a longterm average, you're going to make a ton of money and in the 401(k) you're not going to be taxed on it. So it's just trying to get people away from the risky investments, unfortunately, because of the fear of investing, people reach for investments that they shouldn't be investing in.

Bobbi:
Yeah, and I do want to just give some context to the comments that you're making. You are a former director of the division of investment management at the SEC, and also under your leadership I should say, the SEC did adopt a new rule to reform money market mutual funds. So this really is an issue that's very close to heart. You were there right after the Bernie Madoff scandal and you know Bernie Madoff, a lot of that happened because people trusted him. He was in these affinity groups. He had validation having been in leadership at the Nasdaq and so on and so that is a very real thing. So thank you for bringing that up. Before we wrap it up, anything more to share about the book? I mean it's very readable I think, and it's only 150 pages, but it is packed with a lot of great information.

Norm Champ:
Oh, thanks so much. This is a passion project. Financial literacy is something I believe in deeply. I'm starting a nonprofit organization to pursue that mission of trying to get these messages out there and I'd love to do, if anyone wants to do an event, I'd be happy to come and bring books and just give them away. Frankly, I want this message to get out there, it's really something I feel very, very strongly about.

Episode Links:

• Norm's website - www.normchamp.com

• Norm’s Book - Mastering Money: How to Beat Debt, Build Wealth and Be Prepared for Any Financial Crisis

Follow Norm!

• Instagram - @authornormchamp

• Twitter - @NormBChamp

• Facebook - @NormChampAuthor

• LinkedIn - @normchamp

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include Don’t Keep Your Day Job by Cathy Heller, The Big Stretch by Teneshia Warner, The Future is Faster Than You Think by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, Napkin Finance by Tina Hay and Bow Dow by Lindsay Goldwert.

These are recommendations so I am going to focus on why I was drawn to them and what I got out of them- and full disclosure we do focus  on books written by authors that appear on the podcast- because if we are being honest when I love a book- I want to know more and I want to share that with you guys so we tend to reach out and try to get them on.

Book #1: Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career by Cathy Heller

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-The book is practical and specific. She gives down to earth advice about how to realistically follow your passion but in a very practical way. 

- She shares advice from experts including authors Jen Sincero and Gretchen Rubin and actress Jenna Fischer. There are also stories about every day people to make it relatable.

-There are lots of inspirational quotes like "Why did it have to be an ‘either-or’ when it could be a ‘yes and’?”

Who is this book for:

Don’t keep your day job will motivate just about anyone but it is especially for people looking for advice on well.. how to leave their corporate jobs. Also Entrepreneurs who need a little nudge to connect doing what they love, with doing something that another person or entity will pay for. Emphasis on getting paid.  

Book #2: The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success by Teneshia Warner

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It shares the success stories of some of the dreamers that have spoken at those conferences

-It has a time line: 90 days with specific assignments

-Teneshia’s personality shines through and is the real gem in this book

Who is this book for:

It’s for people willing to do the work to get to their goals and The Big Stretch will help you decide if that is you. Not everyone is ready to go for it- and Teneshia sets expectations that will push you to get there- but only if you are ready. 

Book #3: The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-At first I was intimidated by the book- in part because it’s authors are so accomplished as “Big” Thought Leaders. But once I started reading it, this actually became a page turner because of the very accessible way they approach what are often complicated topics, 

-It’s a little like looking into a crystal ball except after- and only after they lay out theories and predictions, you realize that to a large degree. the way things play out was logical all along. They touch on everything from AI, to digital biology, virtual reality, robotics and blockchain.

-The book made me smarter about our world and who doesn’t love just feeling like they have a better handle on our world. 

Who is this book for:

Truth- This is all stuff I just wasn’t that into- until I started reading the book. So even if this isn’t your thing- move out of your comfort zone and just start. You might be surprised how much you like it, just like I did. 

Book #4: Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less by Tina Hay.

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It addresses the very basics of financial literacy in a unique and approachable way

-Napkin Finance explains some of the most misunderstood and confusing topics ranging from blockchain to credit scores and paying off student debt.

-Fun fact: Napkin Finance partnered with Michelle Obama’s Better Make Room campaign 

Who is this book for:

Napkin Finance is a book for beginners- and for those of us that can benefit from some re-enforcement and sometimes clarification of financial concepts- most basic but some kind of complicated. 

Bonus Book: Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want by Lindsay Goldwert.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-Lindsay is very revealing about her own challenges and makes you feel like you are in it together with her

-The doms- as Lindsay often refers to the dominatrixes share some very specific advice about how they negotiate and hold on to power

-There is a lot of psychology and real insights into human behavior and what triggers certain reactions. By revealing these Lindsay helps us see why we get the reactions we do, and how we can pivot to get.. well everything we want. 

Who is this book for:

Everyone that wants to get everything they want- of course. 

Episode Links:

Cathy Heller’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career

Teneshia Warner’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success

Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives

Tina Hay’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less

Lindsay Goldwert’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When all her friends seemed to be buying houses, sculptor and novelist Georgia Lee Hussey took the plunge. She quickly realized how much she didn’t know about home ownership, credit scores, and adjustable mortgages- and how much it was going to cost her. But the way out of the debacle was also the way in to the career she never knew she always wanted. 

Georgia’s Money Story:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, thank you so much. It's fun to be able to talk about money stories, my favorite topic.

Bobbi Rebell:
let's get into that now. It has to do with your first real estate purchase, you were just 27 years old. Tell us your money story.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So, when I moved back to Portland from New York, I thought, well, I want to move back and I want to buy a house because everybody I know is buying houses. And they were telling me how it easy it was and how great it was and how much the values of the houses were going up. And it seemed too good to be true, and as we know, things that are too good to be true often are.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so I qualified for a mortgage ... You'll love this. I had a five 50 credit score, I had no money down and I had two loans. So I had one loan that I had a seven and a half percent fixed rate and then a second loan at an 11 and a half percent adjustable rate. And I literally did not know what any of that meant. So the process of buying this home as a single person and trying to figure out how to make the cash flow for that work when I was working basically a high-end sales job with irregular income, was quite an awakening to what it meant to be a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you were getting this loan, did the loan salesperson, for lack of a better word, did they explain any of this to you?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
You know, they may have, but it was such a blur because everything was new. I didn't know what any of the terms really meant. I'd never been around somebody who bought a house before. And I'm a pretty smart person and savvy, but not in the world of finance. So they may have explained it to me, but I was surprised two years later when I was trying to figure out what to do with the house and that I was going to have an adjustable rate. I literally didn't understand that about-

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was it before it adjusted?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
I think I had ... It was a three year ARM.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's short. Wow.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Ugh, God. As a CFP it just makes me cringe inside to think about that. Although I was very lucky, thanks to a lot of privilege to be able to get out of that house.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did it play out? So you're in this house, it becomes pretty clear that with your irregular income from a sales job, this is not sustainable. What happens?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So I did all the scrappy, punk rock, arty things that I had always done. I got renters, I rented my garage, I rented the extra bedrooms, I did work trade with people to paint it. And I was working in modern interior design, that's how I leveraged my sculpture background. And so I can make it look really good. So I was really leveraging the resources in my community, in my friend group to be able to do that.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
But as I was realizing the extent of the problem of not understanding how to budget really, because nobody I'd ever been around had budgeted. I started learning everything I could from basically personal finance blogs, which were the equivalent of personal finance podcasts in the early [inaudible 00:06:11]. And I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked. And so I just started teaching myself everything I could. And talking to my friends about it, because I was really surprised by how little I understood. And then I started talking with my friends and they were really ashamed that they didn't know either.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And that's really what struck me, was that these incredibly intelligent, successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money. And I think that's pretty intersectional. A lot of my friends were female, a lot of my friends were queer, a lot of my friends were creatives or artists of one kind or another. And all of us in our individual groups, has been disenfranchised from the world of wealth and wealth accumulation for a variety of reasons and a variety of money stories.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so that really is what lit the fire under me to become a CFP, because I realized there were so many people who were being excluded from the financial world of stability and safety. And so I realized there had to be some job that did this. I was looking for a career change anyway, and I really loved the analytical element of money and the creativity of problem solving, which ... It's basically, my joke is that financial planning is exactly the same as installation sculpture, but it's just instead of using money, you're using clementines or glass or whatever your medium of choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, what happened with the house?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So, I had the house for three years, that was when I was starting to learn about the personal residency exclusion.

Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Yeah, so if you own a house and it's your personal residence and you sell it and you've lived in it, you are able to not have to take the gains on the sale. So there's a $250,000 exclusion. That was not going to be a problem that I had, I think I had a $10,000 gain on the house. It wasn't going to be a big deal. But if you don't live in the house at the sale, you have a certain period of time that the IRS can look back and tax you on the gain.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So I was renting the house, because I had moved in with my partner at that point and I realized that I sort of had a ... I had a moment where I had to either sell it or commit to renting it for the longterm. And I think that was really my first opportunity to analyze an investment and make a decision on whether this was a good choice to sell or hold. I ultimately decided that I wanted to sell because I did not like owning real estate, too much time and energy required to maintain it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you sold it at a slight profit?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
A tiny profit. But really if you look at how much money and energy I put into that house, it was basically a forced savings account with a very high rent.

“I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked and so I just started teaching myself everything I could.”

Georgia’s Money Lesson:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, I think there's a couple. One is that self-efficacy is a skill that we built. I didn't know anything about money, but I was able to access information about money and how to build my own self-efficacy around this new skill set. So that's one thing. I would also say that identifying your money story is essential. Because when I was at the beginning of my journey, I was learning a lot of new skills around budgeting and money management. But until I paired that with the work I was doing in therapy around behavior change and personal awareness, I couldn't utilize those tools and structures very well. I wasn't utilizing them. I knew them, but I couldn't implement it. It's like a doctor saying, "You need to lose weight." And that's the only tool that we're given.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And money is so emotional now, there's plenty of research now showing that all of our decisions are emotional and we just make them seem rational and logical. So once I understood that I had been told I couldn't be good with money as a creative and as a woman, I had been told that budgeting was dumb or not cool, that there were all these layers of money stories. Once I identified those and could pick them apart a bit, it was much easier for me to step into these structures with a sense of personal awareness and clarity about how they were going to serve me, and how they were going to help me change that story going forward.

“What struck me was that these incredibly intelligent successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money.”

Georgia’s Money Tip:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
There's a series of questions we ask our clients, and I would highly recommend asking your friends and family because we're heading into the holiday season. It's a great opportunity to have some more substantial conversations about what's important to us and what we value in the various relationship circles we live in.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So one thing that I think is an interesting question is, what did your mother teach you about money? What did your father teach you about money? Often there are not explicit lessons, like sitting down and having the talk. But there are usually things we gather from watching the world around us, and they're usually different for each parent or guardian that we have in our life. And then I think it's really interesting to ask our parents, "What did your mom and your dad teach you?" And what do you think their moms and dads taught them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that part of it, because we often just relate to our own generation and one up, but if we have the opportunity, if we are with our parents and the older generations, ask them what they learned from their ancestors. Because we rarely get that and I know we don't have time to get into it now, but people can follow up and read in all the places you're interviewed, and I'll leave some links in our show notes, but you have a very interesting multigenerational story about money that really formed who you are today.

“Identifying your money story is essential.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't sign anything you don't understand, even if all the cool kids are doing it. Georgia's friends were buying homes and I'll bet most of them were just as clueless about what they were signing. No excuses, ask questions, read the documents. For those of you guys who have not been at a real estate closing, you write checks and everyone else leaves with checks that they cash. You are paying these people, make them explain everything. Don't let them rush you. You're the one who is paying, you are the one who is on the hook. I have not done this all the time, I have signed documents I have not known. You know what? I now know better, so I'm passing that knowledge onto you. Take the time, no matter how long it takes.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Speaking of friends, Georgia's decision to buy a home was influenced by her friends, who truly meant well. But beware of well-intentioned, pure influence, kind of a cousin to peer pressure. Your friends most likely don't know your actual full financial picture, including your goals, and you don't have to share it with them. When they encourage you to, for example, treat yourself to whatever, especially this holiday season, they mean well but they aren't paying. Thank them for their advice and support and just say you'll think about it to deflect any persistence.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Georgia’s website - modernistfinancial.com

Follow Georgia + Modernist Financial!

• Instagram - @modernistfinancial

• Facebook

• LinkedIn - @georgialeehussey

• LinkedIn - @modernist-financial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Journalist and author Nicole Lapin shares a hilarious story of how a lack of preparation almost led to total humiliation.  Plus why procrastination can be a good thing for financial grownups.

Nicole’s Money Story:

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. I started as a business reporter on the floor of the Chicago Merc when I was 18 years old, and when I was asked if I knew anything about money news or business news, I totally lied, and I faked it till I made it. And then I had to become real, because I found that money is just a language like anything else, and I could not speak that language. So I was going to interview the founders of a tech company at the time and my boss, who was awesome, said to me as I ran out the door, and I would always carry like a big diaper bag, almost combat ready with all sorts of stuff, like a poncho just in case, from my time in actual general news, I didn't know what would happen. I was combat ready. And he was like, "Do you have the P&L?" You know, a lot of people call me NL or Lapin for short.

Nicole Lapin:
And I was like, "No dude, I'm good. I don't need to pee." And I get to the interview and the PR person was like, "Do you have the P&L?" And I'm like, okay, think, Lapin, think. She is not asking you if you need to pee, this must be a money term. I sit down with the founders, and they're like, our profits, as you can see from our P&L, you know, blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, okay, has to do with profits, think, think, think. Profits. L, losses. And I kept saying PnL, like Kibbles 'n Bits, and I didn't even know it was an and. Like, I just was so clueless, and that was a great example of how I had to think about this right on the spot and definitely was not prepared.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so what happened? How did this play out? Did you have an aha moment in the middle of the interview?

Nicole Lapin:
I had the aha moment, and I knew enough that it had to do with their balance sheet, and so I could sort of dance around it and get through the interview. Then after that I wrote down PnL, like N for Nicole, and then it took me another hot minute to realize there was an and sign. It was like profits and losses.

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, did you confess to anyone? Did you tell your boss, "I didn't know what that meant," or did you just keep going?

Nicole Lapin:
No, no, no, no, no. I just had super intense imposter syndrome, and I just thought everyone was going to figure out that I didn't know what I was talking about, and I would have never, ever admitted at the time that I couldn't speak this language. I only now can talk about this, very gladly in hindsight. I love making fun of myself with the most embarrassing money stories, but no, definitely not at the time.

“Money is an intimidating language. It’s ok if you can’t speak the language. Just ask what something means.”

Nicole’s Money Lesson:

Nicole Lapin:
I think realizing that money is an intimidating language. We just don't have a Rosetta Stone for this growing up. And it's okay if you can't speak the language. Just ask what something means. I've talked to COs of major publicly traded companies who have asked me like what does [inaudible 00:06:00] mean, for example, like right before we went on the air, and I was like, "Dude, it's just the bond buyback program." Like, no big deal. And they were like, "Yeah, I just didn't know the terminology." And so there's lots of terminology that sounds confusing. If you went to China and you didn't speak Chinese, you'd be confused. If you went to Wall Street and you didn't speak the language of money, you would be confused, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you're saying that, because so many of us kind of nod and pretend we understand something and maybe make decisions that we shouldn't make, because we don't want to admit that we don't get it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah, totally. And you're definitely not alone. I think a lot of people smile and nod and don't join basic money conversations because they're too intimidated and too scared to admit that they don't know what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And by the way, your website and your books are a tremendous resource for understanding a lot of this stuff.

“I aim for progress and not perfection. If I have more good days than bad days then I am totally winning.”

Nicole’s Money Tip:

Nicole Lapin:
I like to rethink conventional financial wisdom, conventional business wisdom. And yes, you're right. I rewrite financial dictionaries and business dictionaries. I did it in the back of Rich (beep) and Boss (beep). This is maybe why I'm single. But at the end of every chapter in every book, I rethink conventional wisdom to hopefully help you think for yourself. And procrastination is often used as a bad word. It's used as something that you should avoid, but I actually think that you can not fully procrastinate, because it's so cathartic to cross out all the things on your to-do list, like, here we go, dry cleaning, you know, pick up this, blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, those things might not move you towards your goals. So if you remind yourself of what you're working toward and what you have to do and almost connect the dots, I came up with a Super Woman journal that's a companion journal along with Becoming Super Woman to help you do that throughout the day, and I create this point system that's almost like a weight loss sort of system that allows you to give yourself points for things you're focusing on and forgive yourself first if you're not focusing on just the then and there. Because I think we can have it all. We just can't do it all, especially not at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And another thing that I love about the book is you have these really compelling quotes. For example, related to what we were just talking about, you have a quote from Mark Twain, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow," which makes a lot of sense when you really think about the reasoning behind it.

Nicole Lapin:
Yeah. If you have to pick up your dry cleaning or something, and you need to get something done that will move you toward making your side hustle your full time hustle, I would do that and then get your dry cleaning, unless you really have like nothing, nothing to wear. I would do that later on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing in the book that I love is that you have not just a to-do list, but a have done list.

Nicole Lapin:
Yes. Because, you know, we often get into this mode of we've just not accomplished anything, and we're not doing anything compared to everybody else on Instagram. And I think comparison is the thief of joy, and also we tend to compare ourselves to the best version of each aspect of our lives. So we compare our fitness regime to a fitness blogger who works out five hours a day, or our mommy life to that of a mommy YouTuber who bakes bread for her kids and homeschools them. That's not realistic. And so if we get into that cycle and we don't have the definition of what success is to us, we often feel inadequate. We shouldn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, we should not feel inadequate. But one thing that you also work through in the book is you have specific plans for people to organize and get towards those goals in a realistic way, not in a way where you're trying to keep up with somebody, like you were just talking about.

“Comparison is the thief of joy”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

We didn't get to this in the interview, but a lot of Nicole's advice focuses on productivity and avoiding distraction and all the stress that that causes, and of course spending time when you didn't mean to on things. For example, she recommends a browser extension called unroll.me. It's free, and I am now using it. I will leave a link in the show notes. You can always find the show notes by going to bobbirebell.com and then going to the Financial Grownup podcast area. There's also a handy search box in the upper right hand corner, where you can always just type in the guest name or any keyword, but definitely check out unroll.me.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Another one from Nicole's book was to keep emails to five sentences. If it has to be longer than five sentences, then it deserves a phone call. I'm going to start trying that in my workflow. We'll see how it goes, but if you do it, too, let me know how it goes.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Nicole’s website - nicolelapin.com

• Nicole’s book Becoming Super Woman

Follow Nicole!

• Instagram - @nicolelapin

• Facebook - @NicoleLapin

• Twitter - @NicoleLapin

• YouTube - @NicoleLapin

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Getting a huge salary jump is awesome, but even with a big jump Paychecks & Balances podcast host, Rich Jones had some lessons to learn when his compensation skyrocketed. The entrepreneur behind the Show Starter shares his experiences, and how we can all get not just the best pay but also the best jobs. 

Rich’s Money Story:

Rich Jones:
Yeah, so by day I work at Google. I've been there for over five years. I'm moved to a tech startup called ScrollMotion, and it was the shortest role in my career, I'd only been there for about nine months. I actually got an email from a recruiter at Google and I thought it was spam. Even though my ultimate goal was to move to a big tech company, I kind of had this self-doubt of, "Oh wow, they're reaching out to me. Is this really a real role? Why are they reaching out to me in New York when this position is based in California?"

Rich Jones:
I went through the interview process and it probably took about three to four months, but then ultimately I ended up getting the job. I made the transition from New York City to California. And part of what I realized throughout the process that I think is really important, one is the importance of negotiation. And I learned this more for the role that I had at the tech startup because I won't say how, but I came across how much the person in that role before me made and it was a lot more than I had actually asked for.

Rich Jones:
And part of what I did not consider is that I worked at a nonprofit. Nonprofits typically pay a little bit less and when I saw an increase, I was so focused on one, getting out of that nonprofit because I realized that role wasn't for me, that I had this fear of not wanting to mess up the opportunities. I said, "Hey, this is a pay increase, this is great." Only to get there and find out that I actually could have asked for a lot more.

Rich Jones:
And what I've learned from tech companies like Google and Facebook, they really do try to do right by people, and instead of kind of negotiating people downward, they want to make sure that they bring people in at a fair market rate because they ultimately don't want to lose these people because the cost of hiring and losing someone is so high. Part of what I learned in the process is the importance of negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about the actual moment you got the job offer. Did they say the number first or did you?

Rich Jones:
They said the number first and it far exceeded the number that I had in mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this a phone conversation? What, where, how is this happening?

Rich Jones:
It was a phone conversation. I was ready to go back and forth and I had my numbers in mind, didn't realize that I was undercutting myself in the process and they made an offer that honestly had me floored. It was a no brainer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but did you ask for more?

Rich Jones:
I did not because it far exceeded what I was even looking for and I felt completely comfortable about the offer. The lesson here is having a number in mind and I made sure that I did research when I looked at this role to make sure that I wasn't going to get undercut. When they came back with a number that was far greater than what I had in mind, I could've went back and forth with them. And there are situations where I would say, "Hey, ask for more," but it was so much greater than what I thought it was going to be. Everything else about it made sense that it made sense for me to ultimately accept the role.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you find out the data about the previous employee that they were making more and about how much more was it, like a percentage-wise? Give me some sort of scale.

Rich Jones:
Oh, it was about 20 to $25,000 more. It was one of those things where I was doing some research in the system for a project and I saw what they were actually making. And I had this Wow! Moment of, "This is not good. I could have asked for a lot more." Part of what I've learned in my current role, especially because I work in staffing or worked in staffing for a number of years, even if I probably had asked for more for the role at Google I probably wouldn't have gotten it. Because I think one of the other mistakes I made is that at the time they would ask you what you were making today, and companies sometime anchor on that. Once we tell them what you're making, they just try to do a percentage increase. One thing I probably would have done differently is not actually share that salary information and just said come back-

Bobbi Rebell:
You shared it before they gave you the offer?

Rich Jones:
I did, I did. I did. And more states now are implementing policies or laws where companies can not ask for salary information specifically for that reason. I actually encourage people, if you're talking to a company and they ask what you're making today, that you not tell them that actual number and see what they come back with. If they come back with a number that's lower or even if it's a number that's right where you want to be, try the approach of, "Hey, I'm super excited about this offer. If we can get to X number, I'll be willing to sign this offer today." And that recruiter is incentivized to go back and see what they can do to ultimately get you that number that they want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you to take action after getting this information, did you go ask for a raise?

Rich Jones:
No, I did not ask for a raise because for me, my ultimate goal was to move to a company like Google or Facebook and it happened sooner than I expected and that's why I say it caught me off guard and I'm like, "Wow, they're reaching out to me." Because to me it was, "I'll get a couple of years of experience, I'll go and apply. Not this company will find me on LinkedIn because my profile is optimized and then contact me." I'd say over the course of three years, my total compensation increased by 200 to 250%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Rich Jones:
And while at that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Now wait, let me ask you, was that prompted by you becoming a better negotiator because you now have this information or they're just a generous company and that's kind of what they gave you?

Rich Jones:
I think it was more so prompted by things like updating my LinkedIn profile so that they could find me in the first place because there is applying for jobs, but then there's also recruiters who were out there every day looking for talent, scouring LinkedIn. I was that recruiter. Part of the insight knowledge I had was how a recruiter would go about looking for somebody who has a particular set of skills.

Rich Jones:
A big part for me was updating my LinkedIn profile so that if a recruiter was looking for someone who had a combination of HR experience and recruiting experience, and they had this profession in human resource certification, my profile would pop up. While it wasn't as heavy on the negotiation side, there were things that I did to optimize my profile and optimize myself so that if people were looking for someone with my skills, I would pop up in that search and I attribute it a lot more to that.

Rich Jones:
I think part of what's helped me maximize my raises and my increase, it's not so much that I had to negotiate a higher pay, it's that I documented my value and I documented the things that I did to bring more people in, the things that I did to a higher level of impact and then that was ultimately factored into my bonus percentage, which is on a scale. And that was ultimately factored into the salary increase, which is also one scale. It's funny going from being an individual contributor to a manager and then having to go through that same process, where if an employee didn't tell me all the things they did, I had so many things going on so I could not remember everything that they did.

Rich Jones:
But there would be times where they'd say, "Hey, I did this and I did that." And I'd be like, "Oh yeah, you did do this, and you did do that. You should be an exceeds expectation, versus a meets expectations." A lot of it is on the individual to make sure that they're documenting and that they're in a position to be able to show the value that they've added. I had it for that conversation, but also if an opportunity came up outside of the company, I had those things documented, which would then become answers for interview questions or things that I could put in my LinkedIn profile to further show my value and that I'm a high performer.

“I actually encourage people, if you are talking to a company and they ask what you are making today that you not tell that number and see what they come back with.”

Rich’s Money Lesson:

Rich Jones:
There's an article that came out from Glassdoor, a couple of years ago. For someone starting at a salary of $50,000, the difference in not negotiating a $5,000 increase when they're first starting could be the difference of $600,000 over the course of their working career. What people don't think about, we talk about compound interest when it comes to your savings account or when it comes to stocks and investing, but we don't talk about the compound effect of negotiating a higher salary.

Rich Jones:
Because if you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be a lot higher. There are people, they're actually scared to negotiate because they think that the company's going to pull the offer. And I can tell you from being on the employer's side, no recruiter or no company is going to rescind offer because you asked for something. In fact, we expect you to ask for something.

“If you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be higher.”

Rich’s Money Tip:

Rich Jones:
A couple of apps that I really love today. One is Tiller. It allows you to connect your bank accounts and I'm someone that loves spreadsheets. And they have these templates and these customized spreadsheets where if you connect your accounts, it'll automatically pull in the information. You can see what you're spending on by category, if you're over or under or at budget. And there's also a feature where I get an email daily that anytime there's been a transaction, whether money coming in or money going out, I see that first thing in the morning.

Rich Jones:
And there've been times where I've said, "Wow, did I really just spend that much on food?" Or, "Wow, I forgot that I had that subscription." That's one service that I use to kind of see where my spending is going. But the other service that I really like, it's called Truebill, and initially this started out as an app that would monitor all your subscriptions and tell you where you could have a subscription canceled, where they can negotiate on your behalf to bring that subscription costs down.

Rich Jones:
And just even today before we recorded this interview, I've realized that I was getting double-billed for a particular subscription and now I'm in the process of having them resolve it for me so I don't have to deal with the process of calling in and talking to multiple people and going back and forth and sending emails. Pairing up apps, one, I have something that tells me where my money is going on a day to day basis, which keeps me sharp. And then two, I have a service that's monitoring my subscriptions, but it's also giving me a breakdown of how I'm spending for the month. And I can see that category by category and it kind of tells me if I'm doing too much, if I'm going over budget and I found both of those to be super helpful with each other.

“I can tell you from being on the employer side,  no company is going to rescind the offer because you asked for something. In fact we expect you to ask for something. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Manage up. Remember Rich, said to prepare for performance reviews, that's just part of it. This is all about communication with your supervisors. Those are the people who decide how much you get paid. Don't assume they know and in some cases even understand what you do and how valuable you have become to the company.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love what Rich said about the very first salary being an anchor to ongoing salary negotiations. He is 100% correct, but at the same time, don't assume you are worth more than they're willing to pay. With the first job, you don't always bring as much to the table as you will in future jobs. Yes, you probably went to school and studied, but let's face it, in most cases the companies are also going to put a lot of resources into training you. Just factor in what you will learn as an employee when you are in that negotiation and be thoughtful about your asks.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Rich’s website - paychecksandbalances.com/

Follow Rich!

• Instagram - @paybalances

• Facebook - @paychecksandbalances

• Twitter - @PayBalances

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Cate Luzio had no problem getting her boss to agree to give her a raise, but was caught off guard when asked how much she wanted. Cate shares exactly how she was able to come back with her number in just 24 hours, and how we can all get paid as much as possible. 

Cate's money story:

So I spent many years in corporate investment banking, but a large stint of it at JP Morgan. I was living in London, I was already at a managing director level, I was managing a big business within the corporate bank. I was, as women do, getting ready to prepare for that year end discussion and to ask for a raise. I go into my boss's office who was amazing and as I'm starting to already defend my accomplishments and list them out within 30 seconds of me speaking, he says, "Cate stop talking." I thought, "Oh, God, what did I do wrong?".

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I would be worried.

Cate Luzio:
I thought he was going to say, "You're out.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Cate Luzio:
And then he said, "What's your number?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Meaning?

Cate Luzio:
Meaning what's the number?

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you want?

Cate Luzio:
Exactly. Because, one, he didn't have time to waste, and I will tell you that. And two, he was like, "Let's get to the point. You're going to come in here and give me all your accomplishments, but I'm your manager, I know your accomplishments, I know what you've done for the business. So tell me how much more money you want to make." And I had never even thought of the number, which is embarrassing to one extent and then proves a point to the other around that women often are ready to just talk about, list out what they've done and how they've made a value to the company versus going in and asking for that number and then being prepared to defend why they've asked for that. And so, he said, "I give you 24 hours and you come back to me with a number.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, no pressure. So, what do you do with that 24 hours?

Cate Luzio:
I knew that my team, more broadly the leadership team, were all a bunch of men, and that was fine, they were great, but I couldn't ask them. I had come from a different business about a year prior to that within JP Morgan, but I knew I should be making a big jump. So, what did I do? I called a bunch of my guy friends at other banks. I just said, "Here's the situation, I just need to know what you make."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let me just ask you. Did you just randomly pick up the actual, I hate to say this, the actual phone, meaning you didn't text them, you didn't email them.

Cate Luzio:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were picking up the phone.

Cate Luzio:
Picked up the phone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And putting them on the spot.

Cate Luzio:
Putting them on the spot. And I had done that throughout my career. I think women don't realize this, and I think it's a lot in the banking sector, that when you get your bonus everyone's pounding their chest, like, "This is what I got." And guys do. They tell each other what they make. So they benchmark early on. And I had been doing that early on in my career. And then as I got more senior it was like, "Oh, well I'm getting more jobs and I'm getting these big promotions. This is great." And I had forgotten about I should be getting paid for what I do.

And so that's what I did. I spent that night calling and talking. And I remember I met with one of the guys that I knew at a big bank competitor, and hashing it out. And walked in the next day with the number.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just stop you there. What was your take on the numbers they were getting? What did you learn just from those numbers about where you are relative to them?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, much lower. I mean considerable amount lower. And again, remember, I think it didn't have to do with the company not wanting to pay me. It was commensurate with I had been at the firm for a while. You don't normally get huge bumps and raises unless you come from another firm. If you've made a jump that normally happens with your bonus or your variable compensation. So that was not an expectation that someone would walk in and get a very large raise. I knew that from the hundreds of people that I had managed.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't asked.

Cate Luzio:
And I had never asked. A part of me thinks, "Oh, I should've asked." And then part of me thinks, "I'd only been in that particular role for less than a year. So, was it warranted?" Yes, because not only of my performance, but my potential to continue to perform in that role, and bigger roles. And so, we hear it a lot, men are promoted on potential, women are promoted on performance. This wasn't even about promotion. This was about getting a fair compensation.

And so, when I did that benchmarking and talking to my male peers, I realized I was making a lot less. And so the next day I went in and he said, "Do you have your number?" I said, "Yeah, this is my number." He said, "It's not unreasonable. I don't know what we can do, but it's not unreasonable." To which I walked out thinking that's a huge win itself that I didn't come in and him say that's absolutely never going to happen, which, by the way, that happens quite a bit.

And so, three months later when you actually get your comp information and your bonus, they hand you a paper, and that has everything written. And so, I have no poker face. And so I immediately pull up the paper in front of my face, because I don't want him to see if I'm crying or if I'm smiling. Because if it was going to be a bad number I was going to be really upset. And the number was not the number that I asked for, it was even more.

So, as I'm putting the paper down, I'm smiling. What was even better was my boss was smiling even bigger than I was. And his exact words were, "You perform for us, we perform for you." He said, "This is probably never going to happen again in your career unless you leave and go to another firm, but you've demonstrated not only performance but potential and we value that."

“Don’t just go into any or these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Have that number going in.”

Cate’s money lesson:

So the lesson is don't just go into any of these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Right? So already have that number going in, because the worst thing that can happen is, one, they quiz you on why you should get that money or that promotion. Then you're ready, you've got your accomplishments, you've got what you've done for the business, you've got how you've demonstrated your value.

Cate Luzio:
But also what's the worst that can happen? They say no. And then you decide whether you can live with that no, you continue to fight for that compensation or that role or that promotion, or you go elsewhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever gotten a no, and how did you deal with it if you did?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, absolutely gotten a no. Listen, companies are under lots of constraints, they're under huge budgetary issues, so there are a lot of nos. And I've had to give a lot of nos to people too. I think the way I combated that or came back from that was, "Is this still the firm that I want to work for? Is their rationale correct? Do I get that? Do I look at the overall earnings of the company and where I fit into that?".

Cate Luzio:
So, when you work for a large publicly traded company that's in the Fortune 150, they have a lot of mouths to feed. But you still, at the end of the day, have to feel comfortable with the answer that they give. And, for me, I never left a company because they didn't pay me. So I looked at where else there were value they were adding in my life and my career. Was there a career path? Were they providing opportunities? And that was big for me around the delivering of those other opportunities, but also investing in me as an employee, making me a better asset to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that. Because sometimes people might work for, let's say, a startup or something and there just isn't the money.

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you have to look at other things.

Cate Luzio:
You have to look at other things and what drives you. If money is the only thing that drives you, then that's not going to be the place. But there's the role, there's are you managing a team? Are you part of other projects within the organization? Are you moving up quickly, as you mentioned, like in a startup or even in intrepreneurial environment within a big company where it's not just about the compensation? I do firmly believe you have to be fairly compensated, but I think there's a lot of factors that play into that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. Now you are well compensated. I should say, when you worked for other people you were well com... Now you work for yourself. When you worked for other people you were certainly well compensated. You could certainly do the shopping that you wanted to do and have the wardrobe that you want to have. But just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it all on clothing. And that brings us to a everyday money tip from you. Because this is really interesting. We talk a lot about saving money because you have to or to reach certain goals. Sometimes you're saving money because maybe spending it just doesn't make sense.

“I decided to self fund. I wanted to look at my members of the community of Luminary as my investors, versus maximizing value for an investor.”

Cate's everyday money tip:

As someone who did make quite a bit of money, and I actually reinvested a lot of that money into my company because I self funded, one of the things I knew is that my disposable income I needed to make it very small, because I was investing it into the company. And I was a big shopper. I needed retail therapy. So I actually now rent most of my clothes. I do it mostly with Rent the Runway, but it's exciting to see all of these other new players out there because it gives you so much more variety and diversity of your clothes. And for me it ends up really saving a lot of money for me. Also, I get the thrill of shopping online or even in person because they have stores, but without the guilt of spending all that money and then wasting it because I wear those clothes one time and then never wear them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
I second that. I actually also use Rent the Runway, and I find that to be very true. And I also think you can wear things. Sometimes fashions can be a little bit silly, like we had weird sleeves happening a year ago. And you can try that and you don't have to own that because we know some things are just not going to have staying power. Right?

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely. And some things you may think one day they flatter you and the next they don't. So, why keep it in your closet?

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Cate was able to get the intel on her number in just 24 hours, because she had spent years building strong relationships. To do a quick turnaround, you need to have everything in place, and to do that you need to be playing the long game when it comes to those relationships.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

One of my favorite parts of this interview is when Cate got really candid talking about how she deals with nos. First of all, if Cate Luzio is getting no’s, we can all feel a lot better about our setbacks. But she never talks about storming out or being confrontational. Instead, it's about taking a big picture look and being tuned in to why that no happened. It could be you and your performance, and if so, you need to be self-aware enough to own that and to take action.

Sometimes we all have so much ra-ra, go for it in our lives that we're not really that honest when maybe we aren't deserving of that. I'm not saying that's true all that often, but it could sometimes be true. And we need to be realistic about whether the assessment of us might have some good points. But it can also be things that are out of your control, having to do with where the business is financially. That's not really on you, but it's still your reality. Keep your cool, don't make brash emotional decisions.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Cate’s website - https://www.luminary-nyc.com/

• Cate’s Podcast - Come Sit At Our Table

Follow Cate!

• Instagram - @BeALuminary

• Facebook - @BeALuminary

• Twitter - @BeALuminary

• LinkedIn - @BeALuminary

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College can be the ultimate adulting experience- including taking on some bad money habits if students aren’t taught the right way to start building a financial life.

4 Things College Students Need To Learn About Money

• Debt can be dangerous (credit cards are not free money, student loans must be repaid)

• Cash flow is king (save money, start budgeting, know needs vs. wants)

• Run your own race (know priorities and allocate dollars accordingly)

• Money is a tool that can help or hurt you in reaching your goals

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Tara’s website - www.reisupllc.com

• Tara’s courses MONEY and WEALTH

  • Tara is offering 20% off of either course to our Financial Grownup community. Use the code GROWNUP20 at checkout

Follow Tara!

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/reisupllc/

• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/reisupllc/

• Twitter - https://twitter.com/reisupllc

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe5MrXlrFYJmvRzN9XDAeLA

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarafalcone/

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Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

Jen Hemphill: The first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.


We were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give.

I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell: Were they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill: I don't think it was that. That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell: Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill: I'm also a saver.

When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell: Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill: It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell: Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift, a loan?

Jen Hemphill: Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him. He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell: It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill: Yes, because then emotionally we don’t get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

A little bit about Jen’s book:

The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

In my take you will learn:

Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s book Her Money Matters

Jen’s website - www.JenHemphill.com

Follow Jen!

Twitter - @jenhemphilll

Instagram - @jenhemphill

Facebook - @Jennifer.Hemphill

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The cash crunch that led to a business that is disrupting the ultra short-term loan space

Travis Holoway started a Solo Funds, aimed at disrupting the short term, small loan industry by leveraging technology and offering a new kind of lending culture.

Travis: I was working on Wall Street and I was studying to be a broker and there's these exams that you have to take. They're series exams, but FINRA is the regulatory body. You know these exams are very strenuous and you're not really making money while you're studying for those exams.

Bobbi: So give me an example of what a typical salary would be and then what the cost of living is.

Travis: Man, if I remember correctly, I think I was making $250 a week.

Bobbi: Working at a financial company?

Travis: Yes. Working at a financial company in New York City.

Bobbi: What was your job there?

Travis: I was studying to be a broker. It's like a glorified intern, if you will. After you factor in the metro card I couldn't even afford much in the financial district where lunch was costing about $12 a day. So I took a job at CVS. Unpacking trucks, third shift and I would work 10 to six at night. I would come home at six o'clock I would shower, I would put a suit back on and I would head back into the office.

Bobbi: So you literally didn't sleep?

Travis: No sleep at all.

“ So even with working around the clock, I still couldn’t afford any financial surprises. I remember walking like 90 city blocks because I had no money left in my metro card.”

Travis: Actually what happened was I swiped my metro card and there should have been enough for another fair, but for some reason it didn't work. And the attendant told me that I had to mail them my metro card for them to figure out what happened. But long story short, that led to me walking 90 city blocks home. So humbling times.

Bobbi: So you're living this life where you're technically employed by brokers a firm, but you're really a glorified intern earning very little money. You've got a second job at CVS working overnight. So you're really not sleeping much. How does that play out?

Travis: So this situation for me didn't change or evolve until I actually took another job at another financial services firm where there was a more stable salary. And from that point I've been able to rise up the financial spectrum. But it was until I moved and changed positions that I was able to pull myself out of those financial circumstances.

Bobbi: You did pass the exams obviously?

Travis: Yes.

Bobbi: So basically by getting a higher paying job, that's what solved the problem for you?

Travis: Exactly. For me personally, yes.

The lesson here is really to focus on saving

Travis: Focus on getting to that first $500. If you have just $500 in liquid capital, you're actually doing better than half of the country. So people like to get down on themselves because they feel like they're not exactly where they want to be, but it's really a journey. And you know, it's a marathon. It doesn't happen overnight. But celebrate those little milestones along the way. You get to that first $500 saved, keep going, get to a thousand then get to 5,000 and just keep pushing yourself. But this doesn't happen over night for anyone except for power ball winners.

“Later on, I would talk to my friends and they would give me some feedback of what those payday loans actually meant for them. ”

So don't give up. I had friends who had taken payday loans during college and then post college and they would say, hey, just go to this brick and mortar building and get this loan for $400 and I would say, yeah, that sounds good. But there has to be more into that. And then after kind of speaking with my parents who actually steered me away from that and did everything that they could for me to prevent me from taking a payday loan, they're the ones who gave me that knowledge.

While it sounded like a good idea at the time, because their backs were against the wall and it seemed easy to go and get that capital after the fact, it really put them in a very tough financial situation because the fees that compound on top of those loans, it took them months and sometimes years to get out of.

My money tip is if you have the ability, add your teenage child or spouse that may have little or no credit to your credit card account as an authorized user.

Travis: Inversely, if you have a parent or a spouse that has more credit card accounts or better credit than you encourage them to add you to theirs. 28% of the country has no credit from any source and it's really important to build credit. And I personally believe that the FICO score stat, and I know we'll talk about that a little bit later, but credit is still required to accomplish many of life's financial milestones. So with that said, I believe that this is a tip best often overlooked and it's a great way to build credit. One your actual credit and limit I going to be considerably higher than it would be if you were applying for a brand new card. And then also the length of time that that account has been opened will also be a positive benefit to your overall credit report. So as payments are made to that card, they will positively impact everyone associated and it will help people build credit indirectly.

Bobbi: Right. And even though there is a lot of controversy right now about fico scores, especially with errors that can sometimes happen, which people should be vigilant about checking their credits so they can see if there are errors by the way. It is a time when people are looking for different solutions for access to money.

I really wanted to have you on because the company that you are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

About Travis; company Solo Funds

Bobbi: You are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

Travis: SoLo in short is a mobile mini exchange created to provide more affordable access to small dollar loans below $1,000.

We function very much like Airbnb for loans, but we were essentially created to disrupt that predatory payday lending industry that you're speaking about.

“. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower.”

The way that our platform works is it's a two sided marketplace and we're very different than some of the marketplaces that many have heard of like a lending tree or lending cloud primarily because we're focused on these small dollar loans and those larger, what I call big brother peer to peer lending companies are focused on loans up to $40,000. So that might be debt re-consolidation that might be a down payment on a home. We're focused on that American that's living paycheck to paycheck and that single mother that needs $100 to pay her utility bill or the college student who is $200 short for that textbook. That's who we're really trying to help.


Bobbi: I think one thing that's interesting here is that this could really apply even to families lending to other family members or friend to friend because you're providing a documentation and a paper trail effect if it's digital, but you're providing an authority in between. Because very often people are asked to lend money to people close to them and it becomes awkward. You don't want to be asking them. But if you go through the app, can you talk a little bit about how that would work because it creates a stronger outcome, a better outcome because you've made it more of an official loan, I guess.

Travis: Yes, exactly. So the reason why the platform is built that way is because the personal experiences that I had, lending and borrowing amongst friends and family. With that said, we're making this a real transaction and we're putting real terms around a loan. So people are lending and borrowing amongst each other every day via cash or other applications. But there's no terms around that. So if I wanted to borrow money from my mother and she said, Hey, I'll lend you the money but I'll lend it to you on SoLo, I would create a transaction on SoLo, which is basically saying I need to borrow $100. I as the borrower can actually create my own terms. The lender just agrees to the terms at a later point.


Bobbi: Right. So you can say, I'm going to pay zero interest mom, is that okay? And Mom can say, oh, that's okay. I don't want interest or mom can say I'm pulling money out of other investments. I want 5% whatever it is, you guys can work it out.


Travis: Exactly. Once we agree on those terms, there is a promissory note. A digital promissory note which is created which now says that I owe my mother X amount of dollars and that is actually enforceable. So the lender has track record of how much was lent, when the repayment is due and if there is any additional fee associated with that in the form of a return.

Bobbi: How is it enforceable and how do you guys get paid?

Travis: You know there are no impose fees on the SoLo platform, which makes us much more unique than any other financial platform today. So there are no imposed interest rates and there are no impose fees on behalf for SoLo. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower. And then solo actually makes a donation, which is also optional and paid by the borrower. Again, no imposed fees. So the enforceability comes into play where if a borrower does not repay, the lender the discretion to send that borrower or not send that borrower to collections. We have a third party collections company that we'll work on behalf of the lender to recover the funds. And once we recover those funds are directed directly back to the lender.

Bobbi: And what is your default rate? How often does that happen and how does it compare to payday loans?

Travis: Our default rate is two times better than the lending clubs, lending trees and [inaudible 00:12:15] of the world. We're about five times better than traditional payday loans. One of the things that investors are most excited about and other people are most excited about is this new creation of a credit score. I believe the fico score is dead because millennials in the under bank demographics are not doing the same. They're not living their lives the way that prior generations have like buying homes, buying cars, and using credit cards. So with that set, alternative data is necessary. And solo has this data on the under banked and millennial demographic and our goal is to be a path forward to upper financial mobility to where we can graduate borrowers from our platform to more traditional financial institutions in the future where they can have more resources and financial tools.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

#1: If someone that you care about needs money, in a cash crunch for example, and you have the money available but it needs to be a loan, not a gift, make sure you document it. Obviously SoLo Funds is an option to look into, but you can also draw up a payment plan or whatever. Just make sure the terms are clear and in writing.

#2: . Things for Travis did not turn around because he cut costs. They turned around when he got a better paying job. He got a better paying job by putting in the time to work basically as an intern and to study and then pass some big exams. They gave him more viability in the job market. Watch your money, of course, do not spend foolishly, but the goal always needs to be to earn more.

No one can cut their costs to get wealthy. Do the work, get a higher paying job, earn more money or some way to boost your income. That is ultimately what is going to build more money. More financial freedom is having more money. You can't cut your way to getting rich.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Check out Travis' website - https://solofunds.com/

Follow Travis!

• Instagram - @SoLoFunds

• Facebook - @SoLoFundsInc

• Twitter - @SoloFunds

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Episode 200!

Bobbi shares 20 quick and easy ways to be a little more Financial Grownup some of her hopes for the podcast as the show grows up. 

Bobbi: This is a surreal episode. We are celebrating number 200 - and I want to first thank everyone for your support. The DM’s that you send me mean so much- as do reviews so just thank you and I hope I keep delivering value to all of you. Please be in touch and keep letting me know what you like and what you want to hear more of.. and I will do my best to deliver. So for this special episode I kind of wanted to do something fun directly with you guys, 

20 quick and easy Financial Grownup tips

1. Organize your closet to know what you own and be able to find it when you want to use it. Full disclosure I’m in the process. When we moved into our apartment- oh a decade ago- stuff got put away. and we all know how that goes. We are dong a major re-org and I’m working up to actually spending money on a closet system. There’s always something more important- right? I’ll keep you posted and leave links in the show notes for resources. But knowing what you have will keep you from spending on things you.. already have. And if we are being honest- unless you are that really organized person we all aspire to be- it probably has happened. 

2. Donate or sell clothing you have not worn for two years- or choose your own time frame but no a decade is not acceptable and yes I have clothing that is a decade old. So i’m on it too. Let’s face it- we all have stuff  that we know was a mistake-buy. I give myself a 5 out of 10 on this one. There’s more room to go on this. Make sure to get a receipt in case you end up deducting donations on your taxes

3. Go on that trip. Modify it to fit your budget but to not put off your life until you feel you are a “grownup”. I had a hard time last year going to Iceland. It’s expensive. So we went for just 4 nights. Don’t sit home not living your life. That’s definitely not grownup. 

4. Decide on purpose if you are buying or renting for the next 5 years. In other words have a plan.. and play out the scenario of how your finances are impacted by that decision. Write it down and maybe discuss with someone you feel comfortable talking money with. 

5. Make sure your  side hustles actually accomplish a goal. If it’s money- make sure you are making enough to justify the time. If it’s for fun- make sure you really are having fun. Don’t side hustle just because its a thing

6. Plan meals. This is on my aspiration list which is really bad. We eat at home but it’s a lot of same same same. And because we live within a block of several groceries including whole foods- I’m not organized with shopping and often need to run across the street for that one missing ingredient as I’m cooking dinner in the evening. Not grownup. We can all do better. 

7. Understand your paycheck. Go through each line and look up what it is. Just so you know. If you already did your 2018 taxes (we filed for an extension) go through each line there so you understand the tax pain points under the new tax law. You may make different choices if for example, something you used to deduct no longer is. 

8. Clean out your computer and create digital systems. I’ve been working on this and it is already making a difference in my general productivity not just in my business but with life in general. Also my computer runs better when it’s cleaned out. Pro-tip: if it is really bad- drag everything onto a hard drive- wipe it clean- and then only load on the stuff you miss. You might want a professional to supervise. 

9. On that note, create mail systems. I use sane later and I’ve been mostly happy with it to sort e-mail.There is still a lot of room for improvement because sometimes it is too aggressive and puts emails from unknown senders (like a potential client) into spam. Feel free to send me tips on organizing my email better. 

10. Follow brands you like on social to get discounts. For example: we were ordering in last week, I went to twitter, got a discount code, and instantly saved money

11. Read the news. Grownups know what is going on around them- politics is important because it is often the politicians decisions that impact our finances- hello new tax law. Be aware of what is up to date- and by the way that includes things like financially relevant supreme court decisions, and trade war developments. Those can directly impact everything from what things cost to buy, to the job market. 

12. Create a financial slush fund to support your friends charities and causes. Like it or not, as we grow up, we get asked to support friends and actually co-workers causes. Sometimes you even get ambushed when you least expect it- I remember being with my husband at a work related party hosted by someone senior to him at the firm. His 12 year old son hit us up for a donation to his boy scout troop. We had no choice but to give. Multiply that time losing count and that’s what you will start to get. And the truth is that example aside, you want to give. So start to budget for it. And it is more than ok to give $25 even $10. It’s the support that counts. 

13. Focus on being really nice to anyone you deal with in customer service. You can usually get better service and sometimes a better deal. You can even ask nicely if there are any coupons or discounts available. They often are and if you are that nice person, they usually choose to tell you.

14. Read the directions to things you buy and invest the time to really learn how to work them- not just muddle by. This is an aspiration for me. I often rush to use products without really learning to use them. Even my iPhone. I can do the basic stuff but I haven’t invested the time for example, to learn how to take the best photos, or shortcuts that I know are out there. Every time I go to an apple store I learn just from those slide shows they have showing little iPhone tips. So Note to Self- take the time to learn more about the things that I already own - like the iPhone- can do. 

15. Read more books. Books make you smarter. They just do. I try to segment 45 minutes before bed to devote to reading books.That often goes to books of authors that are going to be on the show. I also listen to books on audio when I’m walking around or taking public transportation. And as our regulars know- I use Blinkist to get the best summaries of books I have aspired to read but haven’t gotten to. Done is better than perfect and Blinkist gives me the intel I want to get from the books in the most efficient way. I do audio but you can also get it with just text- and on any device including Kindle. As some of you know, I love Blinkist so much I partnered with them- so if you want to check it out- please use my link for a free trial and to support the show. 

16. Install web extensions like honey , rakuten and ebates so you get cash back when you buy things

17. Sell things you aren’t using for money- and buy used things when they are just commodity items. And yes you can buy refurbished.  

18. Unsubscribe. In your email and also with almost everything you do- then add back in the things you miss. They will always take you back. and you sometimes get a better deal for requesting to cancel. 

19. Be smart about outsourcing. It may make sense to have someone do things for you if they can do it more efficiently and free up your time to do things that either make more money than that person costs you, or if you can afford it, frees you up to have more fun. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should, or that you are the best one for the job. Financial Grownup has a great editor- even though technically I know how to edit, Steve does a better job and it is not the best use of my time. Same goes for a lot of my social media. Ashley, my wonderful assistant, is more efficient at it than I am. What should you be outsourcing?

20. Look up from your screen and talk to someone IRL. You could even call someone instead of emailing, texting or messaging via social media. And focus on listening- something I’m definitely always trying to get better at. You never know what kind of business opportunity- or even friendship-  could come from just paying better attention to the world around us. 

Before we wrap- a quick note about the show. If you listened to the April Fools show- but not until the end. It was April Fools. The show is continuing. I do have a lot going on but this show is a labor of love, so I have no plans to stop. That said, my goal for the next couple hundred is to focus on expanding the show and yes- monetizing it. I have two people that help put the show together- Steve Stewart and Ashley Wall and they need to get paid, as do I. So- while the show will remain free- I do ask that you understand that we will be having sponsors on the show. Rather than shortchange you on the editorial content, the sponsors may at times  make the show a little longer. And that’s ok. I have an amazing lineup of guests for the summer that I can’t wait to bring to you- so thanks to all of you for being financial grownups with me. 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Being a grownup is hard, but being a parent to emerging financial grownups may be even harder. Author John Christianson talks with Bobbi about the challenges of raising financial grownups - when it’s easier for the parents to support them. 

In John's money story you will learn:

Yeah. Well, we've been successful at launching three kids, which we feel very proud of. But, along the way, we made tons of mistakes, and one of those was, we just had a difficult time saying no. Whether it was providing an allowance for the kids, and then they'd run through that allowance, and we'd somehow refill it. But, our story, really, is around providing a car for our kids. We needed the kids to get from our home, to their school, which was a private school about 20 minutes away, 25 minutes away, and they were all ... The kids were in sports.

So, at this point, we didn't have time to have the kids earn enough money to get a car. That would've been nice, but we didn't have that kind of luxury.

The car was really for you, so you, and your wife, and any caregivers in the mix, didn't have to be doing the driving.

Yeah. We were exhausted taking the kids around. We felt like a shuttle bus, taking them to all their events, and all their stuff. So, we needed that for them, and not only did we provide the gas, we provided the insurance and all that. So, it was kind of, yes, to take care of us, and in the process, at one particular day, I remember that we got the call from our son and he said, "Hey, dad. There's a red light on, on the dash." I said, "Well, what's the red light?" It's the engine that's ... That red thing on the engine is blinking, and the car won't start.

Come to find out, they'd run the car to the point where there was no oil. It had frozen up the engine. So, here I am, putting a new engine in the car, that was to help them kind of commute back and forth to school. It was just kind of this constant need for us to keep things moving, and we just didn't do a great job of saying, no, that there's consequences to that decision that you made not to look at the light, when you needed to refill oil in the car. It really came down to our own comfort as parents, and while we talked about, hey, that wasn't a really smart decision, and hey, that engine's going to cost a whole bunch of money to replace and to fix, and it would've great if we would've had more conversation about that before this point. Ultimately, at the end of the day, we put another engine in that car.

There was multiple cars after that, that led to us continuing just to feel like there was this flow of capital out the door, to kind of support what we need our kids to be able to do. So, yeah, I don't feel great about that. I feel like that's the one place in our life that I wish we would've said sooner, no, we're not going to do that. But, we didn't. In a lot of cases we just looked at what would be best for us.

What kind of discussions were you having at the time? Or, would you have liked to have had, I guess? It sounds like you weren't having discussions.

We were having discussions, but they weren't those. We were at least open about the fact, this is really costing mom and I a lot of money. I do remember saying that. This is expensive. At the same time, we were also, though, talking about what we valued as a family, and things that we were seeing in our kids. Which, they were committing to ... Our oldest son was committing to a sport that he loved. Our middle son was working, so we were trying to commit, help support him in that. So, we felt like we were talking about things like generosity, and talking about the opportunities that our kids were able to get that we weren't getting, or didn't get as kids, ourselves, my wife and I. So, we did have lots of conversations about those kinds of things.

So, I feel like there was some success in the types of things we talked about, in the experiences our kids got to have, that ultimately shaped who they became. For example, our daughter was going on mission trips, and helping building homes in Mexico. Our son got to go to Uganda, and do some service work there. Our oldest son, who was playing baseball, got to go to Puerto Rico, and serve some needy people in that area, on a baseball trip. Ultimately, at the end of the day, while I feel like we made some mistakes in providing too much, in some cases, and not having consequence for the cash outflows, I also think those things that the kids got to do, and what they were experiencing, shaped who they became today.

“I want to maximize return on life”

In John's money lesson you will learn:

I think it starts with opening up investment accounts for kids, and getting them ... And, that probably a seed capital from parents. That's money that you've got to put in there, and help them kind of get a sense of how that works, and help them understand what investing does, and the power of that, and the compounding of that, and how that can provide freedoms and choices in their life. It wasn't that we weren't talking about that. We kind of thought that the kids would be able to accumulate enough money, in savings, in allowance, that they would do that on their own, in our home. That just didn't occur.

So, I think that would be a place to start, would be seed some investment account for them. A small amount, or some amount that you can talk to them about. What companies are you interested in? Buy a few shares of a few stocks. I see successful parents talking about that.

The other thing I see parents do, that we did, and I have to say we did it differently than this, but is saying, "Here's what we value as a family. Here's what our family is about, and why we spend money on the things we spend money on." And, articulating that to kids. It's not so much about the dollar amount we're spending. It's almost irrelevant. It's, we're spending money on these things, because we care so much about them, and talking openly about that.

I think we gave our kids that gift of being able to ... Almost, like an entrepreneur, you can go do whatever you want to do, and they watched their mother and I go do that. All those things are messages. I think it's important to think about, if I ... Summing that up, I would say, what are the messages you're sending to your kids? Sometimes, that financial literacy is a great head knowledge, but is there a message in that you want to deliver to them? The message for us was, you can go be whoever you want to be, and we're going to give you the tools, and prepare you for that. Then, we're going to launch you, and we're going to let you go to figure out what that is.

"People that were gaining wealth weren’t necessarily any happier. In fact sometimes it was more complicated"

In John's everyday money tip you will learn:

Move towards something that is in the direction of risk. What I've found is, you don't have to get all the way there. It'd be great if you could, but just take one step towards that. Because, life will pass you by. I just see lots of people who have money, interestingly enough, and can do anything they want to do, don't do that. And, I see people that don't have money, the same. We're somehow wired to stay in whatever our comfort zone is, our cocoon. We're kind of wired to stay there, and it takes effort to take that step. I would just encourage people to take that step.

That's part of what I wrote in my book, which is, I want to maximize my return on life.

One thing that our listeners ask us a lot is, how do you know when you need to switch from the DIY approach to money management, maybe using a robo adviser, to really working with an investment pro? Then, how do we even begin to find one? That's something that you do cover in the book.

Yes, I do. Yeah, it's ... What I've found, is that you get to a point where you start to realize that, both, the assets are going up enough that you don't have the time, the inclination, or the knowledge, anymore, to do it. You're definitely smart enough. I don't think it's a function of how smart you are. It's just, I'm not giving it the attention it needs, even though I have my best intentions to rebalance my account, or to look at a new investment. Or, whatever that is, I just am not getting around to it.

I think there's a point there for everybody, where they have to be honest with themselves, and just say, look, I need some help. It isn't a sign of weakness. It's, I need help, and I'm going to put my time and energy where it's best suited, and maybe that's wealth creating, and I'm going to bring some people around me to help me manage and do some of the things that, either, I don't have the time for, or I just am not enjoying.

How do you identify that person? Especially, another theme you talk about in the book, is the issue of trust.

There's lots of people out there, but I do think it's something that I encourage people to take time. Take time interviewing a variety of people. Make sure there's a connection, both in character, but in capability, and in experience. Because, that trusted adviser role is critical.

There is a difference, I should say, another theme in your book that I just want to bring up quickly, between wealth creation versus money management. It's not the same thing.

It's not the same thing. People confuse that all the time, because they'll create wealth through a business, or a concentrated position in a company, or an IPO, or a whatever, and then all of a sudden they'll get a portfolio of investments, and go, "I want the same returns as that." That's just almost silliness.

It takes a little bit of conversation with people, to go, no, that's the point of money management. The point of money management is to grow that, and diversify it, and protect it, so it's there to fulfill the things you want in your life.

“We just didn’t do a great job of saying “no”, and that there is consequences to that decision that you made” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial grownup tip number one. Everyone matures financially, at different times, and it's usually okay. John had mixed feelings about supporting his kids, but the truth is, they had the right values. They were doing all the things that they should be. And, yes, they should've been more responsible with things like the car maintenance. But, they are all, now, fully functioning financial grownups. Sometimes, it just takes a little more time, and that's okay.

Financial grownup tip number two. There is proof that when parents give their children money, especially college graduates, to support them and give them a little boost as their starting out in life, these kids do go onto have greater professional success, according to research in a report by Anna Manzoni, Associate Professor of Sociology at North Carolina State University. In other words, giving kids a financial boost, again, assuming you can afford it, is in fact, a great way to put them on a path to success. So, while by no means should you put your own financial future, for example, your retirement, in jeopardy, if you can afford to help your kids while they are doing all the things that they're supposed to be doing, earning money, saving appropriately, and so on, it's a good thing. Life is hard enough.

John's kids have the values that he instilled in them, and when they needed to be financially independent, they were able to.

Episode Links:

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John’s book The Wealth Creator’s Playbook

John’s Podcast The Wealth Confidant

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