The best new money books for Financial Grownups.

May 2019 Edition.

Once a month we feature a handful of books by authors that have appeared on the financial grownup podcast and share with you some of the reasons I chose to have the authors on the show. My promise is to be candid about how you can decide if the book is the best selection for your time and goals. For example,   Dig your Heels in by Joan Kuhl. While it has the most amazing strategies for staying in the corporate workforce, if you are in full startup mode or already feeling pretty solid in your entrepreneurial ventures, it maybe not the best investment of your reading time. 

Some ground rules:

There will be only positive comments. Because why waste your time telling you about something I don’t think is worth your time. 

Also - we limit our selections to books written by authors that appear on the podcast. In most cases they will have already appeared- so you can then go back and listen to their episode if you want to learn more. Occasionally, the episode will be in the future - so hopefully you will subscribe so you don’t miss it. 

Here are 3 books (+ a bonus book) I truly enjoyed in the past month!

Book #1

Let’s start with the one with one that is by Erin Lowry, whose brand “Broke Millennial’ no longer applies to her- and actually for those who follow her- never really did if we are being honest. She’s always been pretty money conscious. 

Here are three things I liked about her new book Broke Millennial takes on Investing. A beginner’s guide to leveling up your money. 

• There is no attitude. Erin takes ownership of the fact that her readers literally may know nothing about investing and will take her explanations down to the most basic level. The things we all pretend to know because we think we should. So for example, when she explains what asset allocation is, she uses the term risk tolerance but then takes the time to explain what that is. 

• She owns the fact that she is the writer- and not always the expert- so she seeks out experts including Jen Barrett from Acorns, Certified Financial Planner Doug Boneparth and Jill Schlesinger- the latter two have been on this podcast- and yes we’ll have links to them and their books in the shownotes as well.

• And finally- Erin gets personal about the financial grownup lessons she learned from her parents- and very specific. For example, her dad declared at age 24 that he wanted to be a millionaire by age 40. Did he? You probably guessed correctly but read the book to confirm.

Who should read this book:

Anyone who hears about investing and is curious but doesn’t know where to start, as well as beginners who want to get a better handle on what they are doing, and a little validation along the way.

Book #2. 

Dig Your Heels In. Navigate Corporate BS and Build the Company You Deserve by Joan Kuhl.

This is just what it sounds like- it’s about finding a way to stay in a corporate job when you really want to tell them to go to you know where. 

Here’s what I liked about it:

• Her strategist are specific and laid out for the reader- but there is also no bs that you have to do the work. For example, she talks about different ways to achieve goals. And is honest that you have to figure out who has the power to get you to that goal. But you have to do the work to seek out those people and find a way to get them to advocate for you. There are solutions here but no easy fix. She’s just being honest.

• There are some big revelations that I had no idea about- things like how opportunities and promotions are really decided behind closed doors that you think you know but you don’t. Like pre-gaming for reviews. Read the book. Joan has secrets.

• She did a lot of legwork and has interviewed an unbelievable number of high level women and men so there is propriety research in this book. Specific first person stories of how the most successful people make it work and yes, dig their heels in. 

Who should read this book?

I’m going to say both genders, but the truth is Kuhl is speaking primarily to women.. in large part because more women quit the corporate workforce in droves to deal with the demands of family- and these days they often start their own thing. But for women who would like to find a way to work things out, this is the best thing ever. As I said when Joan was on the podcast, I wish I had this book when I was at Thomson Reuters as a tv anchor and trying to balance my family life. 

Book #3:

An Economist Walks into a Brothel and other Unexpected Places to Understand Risk by economist Allison Schrager who is also with Quartz. 

Here’s what I liked about it:

• If we are being honest, the title. I mean- I love that Allison Schrager had the guts to just put it out there there is definitely a shock value to this book.  

• The fascinating different stories illustrating risk and reward in industries from surfing to paparazzi to the movie business.. and of course the brother. You learn economics- but you also learn a lot of behind the scenes dirt about these very cool niche businesses.

• The author has a real point of view. She takes a stand. For examples, Schrager gives us permission- and justification to NOT take risks that don’t make sense. “Taking more risk than necessary is inefficient.” 

Who is this book for?

People whose eyes glaze over when someone starts talking economics and risk. In a way- It’s for the nerds that haven’t yet come to terms with their nerdiness.. we’re turned off by insider jargon and boring explanations-  but secretly really do want to know all the data- just in a really fun and accessible way. This book is story telling at it’s finest. 

Bonus Book (because technically it is not a money book):

Travel Anywhere and Avoid Being a Tourist by financial grownup guest Pavia Rosati and her Fathom co-founder Jeralyn Gerba

The authors met as editors at Daily Candy and then later teamed up to launch the travel platform Fathom. It is an editorial website and so much more. You can find digital guides- as well as help planning your travel through their concierge service which I have personally used and loved when I went to Iceland.

Here’s what I liked about the book:

• I love it for all the reasons you should not read it on a kindle! This is just a beautiful book to just experience. Stunning photos and a beautiful layout and sharp focused writing. 

• There are actual money saving tips - like hostels where you feel like you are staying at a boutique hotel, and a nice little travel hacks section with tips like how much to invest in a top of the line suitcase, what to check on your data plan before you go and knowing your auto insurance coverage in advance. Doing these things can potentially save you a ton of money.

• The Digital Nomads chapter. Because although in theory we talk a lot about shutting off all the electronics when we travel, sometimes it’s just really nice not to be judged when we choose not to. Put another way- what if you get to travel because your work is portable- not everyone with a laptop on a beach is a slave to their job- it could be quite the opposite. 

Who is this book for:

People that already travel a lot and are looking for fresh perspectives, and those who want to travel but just don’t know where to get started.I personally can feel overwhelmed and so fearful of making a mistake that I can’t even get started.  And of course it’s great If you just want to look at beautiful pictures and learn about all the world has to offer- even if it’s not on your calendar in the immediate future. This book can just be for the love of relaxing with a special book. I’m not giving away my copy any time soon. 

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Erin Lowry’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Broke Millennial takes on Investing

• Joan Kuhl’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Dig Your Heels In

• Allison Schrager’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of An Economist Walks into a Brothel

• Pavia Rosati’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Travel Anywhere and Avoid Being a Tourist

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry joins Bobbi with 3 specific things you can do today to upgrade your investing strategy, along with her take on how to be a successful investor.  For example: How much should you be paying for your investments? How long should you set it and forget it- when do you check in on your investments? What is an investment audit? Are all index funds the same? Plus a preview of her new book “Broke Millennial Takes on Investing’ . How to tell if your goals are in line with the investment choices you are making? And what to do if you don’t understand an investment term but don’t want to ask. 

Here are the 3 things you must know about actionable investing tips

• Increase contributions in small increments

• Pay attention to expense ratios- they matter so much

• write down goals and check in once a year

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

• Jill Schlesinger's Financial Grownup episode

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Traveling like a grownup can be overwhelming. Pavia Rosati had the world class intel everyone wanted.  But she and her Fathom co-founder thought they needed a business savvy partner. Except they never found Mr/Ms. right. So they stepped up their game and did it themselves. 

In Pavia's money story you will learn:

“You need to think about time as money when you travel. You don’t have an unlimited time budget and so make sure you are spending your time as wisely as possible.”

That's right. When we started this business about nine years ago, we didn't really have the money locked up tight. We didn't have a full proof business plan. We had ideas for how to make money, but we had the vision and we had the drive, and at a certain point, we stopped talking about it and we're like, okay, we're just going to do it. In hindsight, it would have been better if we had also had somebody who was kind of the money yin to our content and experience yang.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there any business plan? Any revenue projection plan?

Pavia Rosati:
There were. There were. We didn't think about this at all. Digital media is, it's a moving target right now right. We had plans for where the money would come from, but when the industry changes, and the ad market changes, and people's online behaviors change, you need to be able to adjust your business models accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened specifically? What was your original plan, and then what happened?

Pavia Rosati:
The original plan, we actually did have somebody who was going to come on board as the business partner. At the end, she said, you know what, I just can't take the risk. I don't have the entrepreneurial courage that it takes to go out and do this. What's funny, when you launch a business, it's like dating. Everybody has you, oh, you should talk to this person. Oh, you should talk to that person. I swear, in the first year of the business, I had coffee with someone else, and someone new.

We ultimately made the decision of, you know what, if the alternative is not to do this, or to wait until we find the right person, the moment might be too late, so let's just do this and get this out there, and then see where we end up.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened? You didn't have a business partner. What actually happened in terms of the business part of Fathom.

Pavia Rosati:
The business part of Fathom is [Gerilyn 00:05:13] and myself doing the business. It means that we're the ones who hustle for the deals. It means that we're the ones who close these deals. It means that we've discovered our inner sales people, and we've been able to do it because we've been able to stay afloat, and we've been able to keep doing this. But, the question is, had we had somebody who was a serious, serious business person, where could we have been, and how much more could we have done, and how much more money would we have made?

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Can you think of any examples where you felt the real lack of that?

Pavia Rosati:
There was a project that we were pitching that we were very excited about working on. The person that I was negotiating with said, here's my budget. I said, hmm. Yeah, I was thinking three times that. I thought, oh God, this is when it all falls apart. Instead, he came back and he said, okay, that's fine. That was a great, very lucrative project for us.

One of the times when it really would have been helpful to have some money and some business muscle behind us was a few years ago when we launched these fantastic honeymoon guides to Italy. I love the fact that we cover the whole world. The question we get again and again from people who are seasoned travelers, or people who never travel, is help me figure out my trip to Italy. So we came up with these fantastic itineraries, three days, in Florence, Venice, Rome, and the Amalfi Coast. Think of it as a concierge in your pocket. These guides are amazing. Anybody who found them and downloaded them was like, Oh my God, this is perfect. One small guide and my whole trip is planned.

Had we had somebody, however, with a lot more marketing experience, we could have gotten the word out about these things out to the thousands and tens of thousands of travelers who would have wanted these for their summer vacations to Italy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing the work but you're not getting the attention that you want. How have you solved that, or have you?

Pavia Rosati:
Finding an audience is the ongoing struggle that anybody who is creating content, is struggling with all the time. There is no perfect answer to this. Getting our great work to the people who need it and who are looking for the information, is the constant struggle that we face, but that we're also not alone in facing. I mean, the internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything, but guess what, everything is too much. There's too much noise. We always say that we do everything we do at Fathom to really cut through the clutter. To instead of giving you everything, we give you a really tight edit so that it's not overwhelming. So that you can read one article, and base your Caribbean trip just on that one article.

In Pavia’s money lesson you will learn:

“Nothing makes me more sad than being in a foreign country and seeing everybody sitting at the table looking at their iPhones. ”

Even though you're driven to do something, imagine what will happen if you don't have a safety net. Works for your plan B, works for your plan C. Have all of that stuff figured out, take the time to do that and then dive in. You will end up on much more solid ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your safety net was relying on each other and figuring it out, and having the courage to act as your own advocate. As in the case when you just mentioned where you got triple what they wanted to pay, because you stood your ground.

Pavia Rosati:
Yes. Correct. Because we stood our ground. Listen, we've lost out on things also. It's not all, we've lost out on things because we are smaller. The challenge and the reality of the ad market place right now online is a lot of companies are just after millions and millions of eyeballs, and worried more about the numbers than the quality of what they're getting. We deliver on quality, but what we sometimes lose out on is quantity.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's something that I truly believe is evolving. I think we're seeing with a lot of, for example, the influencer market. People are moving away from, or at least paying more attention to, the micro-influencers, and paying less attention to or, maybe being more realistic, about these giant influencers. The stickiness is not always the same as a micro audience that might be interested in say a podcast, or a blog or whatever, that's very niche. I think there's a lot more interest in that because the value of quality and engagement. You probably have a very engaged audience.

Pavia Rosati:
We do. We have a very engaged audience. The only criticism we ever hear is, I wanted to go to fill in the blank on the most remote place on earth, and you don't have a full guide yet. Work faster.

In Pavia's everyday money tip you will learn:

“The internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything but guess what? Everything is too much. There is too much noise.”

Correct. Of course my tip is going to be about money. You're absolutely right. You need to think of time as money when you travel. You don't have an unlimited time budget. So make sure that you're spending your time as wisely as possible. When it comes to money, there are really simple things that you can do before your trip to make sure that you have things taken care of. Number one, not every place you go is going to have the most reliable ATM machine that's working where you need it to work. So maybe, plan ahead and have some cash available, if you're traveling in a foreign currency, to get you through the first day or two, until you can get to an ATM or a bank where you can change money.

Similarly, plan your tips in advance. Have a couple of euros in your pocket. Have pesos in your pocket so that you don't have to be fumbling for change when you want to give a porter a tip, or worse, give someone a dollar bill, because there's nothing that's worse than handing someone a $3 tip, then they would have to go to the bank to change that? Terrible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We sometimes, in America, assume that everyone really wants dollars, and sometimes they don't.

Pavia Rosati:
That hasn't been the case since like 1960. I have to tell this to my Dad all the time. He's like, I'll leave $100. I'm like no papa, they don't want to have to go to the bank to change some money. No. Other things to think about in terms of time and money when you're traveling is, invest in the things that are going to make your trip better. Invest in really good suitcase, so that you're sure that your stuff arrive safely. When you are thinking about auto insurance, know before hand, what does your credit card cover, what doesn't it cover. When you're getting on a plane, know what your points are. Does your credit card give you access to lounges at the airports? If so, which one.

I keep a file in my contacts of every lounge of the airports that I go to that I know which I have access to, through my credit card.



Financial Grownup tip number one:

Sometimes, the perfect partner is really late. Pavia and her partner were searching for a business oriented partner to add, and they never found them. They had to step up and just do it themselves. It wasn't their plan, it wasn't their ideal, and it still may change if they find the right match. And yeah, things might have been better if they did find that match earlier, or not. But just like you have to live your life even if you haven't found the perfect, let's say, romantic partner. It's the same with business. You got to keep moving. The right business partner may have not been there for the startup phase, but maybe there's someone that's right for them now that the company is more mature. They're looking, but they want the right fit, and that's a good thing.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

If you are a workaholic, yes, I'm looking in the mirror. One chapter that I loved in the book, travel anywhere and avoid being a tourists, was about the coolest coworking spaces. Here's the things everyone. Work should not keep you from traveling. But that doesn't mean that everyone really, especially maybe you're an entrepreneur, you have your own business, or you have a job with a lot of responsibility. Maybe you really can't take the time off that you feel that you need, or that people outside are telling you that you need. Maybe it doesn't make sense to put up walls between work and life and to go on this unplugged vacation. Maybe, you're going to enjoy your vacation more if you can do let's say, three days of vacation, and one day in a coworking space in that foreign city, or that other city that's not where you work that you're going on vacation with. Maybe that's actually going to help you stay on top of things, enjoy things more, focus on the days that you are "on vacation", but you can do work occasionally in that city and remain tied to your business in a ways that gives you comfort. So that when you come home, you aren't in catch up mode, and also frankly, before you leave.

Episode Links:

Pavia's Book Travel Anywhere (And Avoid Being a Tourist)

Check out Pavia's website -

www.FathomAway.com

Follow Pavia!

• Instagram - @FathomWayToGo and @PaviaNYC

• Pinterest - @FathomWayToGo

• Twitter - @FathomWayToGo

• Facebook - @FathomWayToGo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

A story pitch led economist Allison Schrager to conquer her own negotiating fears by learning from the economically savvy workers at a Nevada brothel. The experience led her to investigate the most compelling and successful approaches to negotiation, reducing risk and increasing the chances of success. 

“My new life philosophy is you should hear no at least 60% of the time and if not you haven’t asked for enough”

In Allison's money story you will learn:

Well, this is actually what brought me to the brothel initially. When I had a relationship with them is they called me wanting me to write about them and I was like, "I don't know about this." They were ... I'm like, "But, tell me about the industry" and they're like, "Well, you know. All the women are independent contractors and we have no set prices. They negotiate every transaction." I was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
These are the legal ones in Nevada?

Allison S.:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Allison S.:
Yes. This is the legal brothels in Nevada. They're all 1099 employees. I was like, "Well, that's interesting. So, you're telling me, you've got women in their early 20s negotiating with men in their 60s over tens of thousands of dollars?" And they're like, "Why, yes. And it's interesting, no one's ever asked us about that before. You know, then a lot of them come here, not knowing their value so we train them so they know how to be better negotiators and ask for more."

Allison S.:
Now, this is something I struggle with. I'm terrible at negotiating. Nothing freaks me out more and fills me with more anxiety, or at least used to, than asking for money. I am just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I think all of us.

Allison S.:
All of us. I've always probably been underpaid for this reason. Off I went to Nevada and I spent about a week and a half there learning negotiation skills and it changed my life. Particularly, Dennis Hof when he was alive, was there. He told me something about negotiation that just really changed my outlook for money and for everything, which is you have to get comfortable with "No" because you have to hear "No" more than you hear "Yes" because that's how you know you're asking for enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really smart. What's interesting that these women that are in the legal part of the industry do get triple, I think what the ones that are outside of the legal. There's a reason for that is because they're paying to lower their risk, which I think is fascinating.

Allison S.:
Yeah. Just like any market, you pay for safety. Brothel customers pay this 300% markup for transaction that affectively their "No's" going to have no consequence. They're not going to get arrested. No one's going to blackmail them. She's not going to be on the news. They know if she's been screened for diseases. If a customer want ... men and women want that kind of service, then there's somewhere they can go and know they can get at risk-free but they have to pay for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you take those lessons and actually use them in your own life?

Allison S.:
Oh, yeah. Especially one. I learned how to asked for more and feel comfortable hearing "No." My new life philosophy is you should hear "No's" at least 60% of the time and if not, you haven't asked for enough. Also, I also learned these techniques of how to feel more comfortable hearing "No" because it's like a risk, like anything. And that, if you go into a negotiation, it's a risk. It could blow up and you'll destroy your relationship. This is a big concern. The two people negotiating in a brothel, they're about to do something very intimate but they have to argue about money before. It's sort of like your job negotiation on steroids, in terms of tension.

Allison S.:
What they do is they do something you do in finance too, which is there's a lot of hedging. There's a lot of maintaining some sort of form of liquidity, which is you don't just say ... Salary negotiation like, "Double my salary or I'm going to quit." You're just like, "Well, hey. I would like this much more money but if that's not realistic, I could take more vacation days." What you do is you offer this menu of options, which promotes flexibility for both sides and that increases the odds you're going to have a more successful transaction.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you ... When you then ... Are there specific ways that you then implemented these negotiations strategies in your life since then?

Allison S.:
Oh, yeah. I'm now very comfortable hearing "No." Certainly in terms of writing the book and asking for the resources I needed from both the publisher and from friends helping me promote it. I'm now very comfortable with making these ballsy asks I would've never done before.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give an example of one that you asked for that was success? And maybe one that wasn't successful.

Allison S.:
I think it's certainly in terms of asking corporations to do bulk sales. That was just something I would've never asked for before. Now I feel comfortable with it. But, sometimes more often than not, I am being told "No." It still stings a little but then I sort of tell myself, "You asked for enough because you heard no."

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing to remember because ultimately, in other words, you want to hear "Yes" but if you hear a "Yes" right away, that in a way makes you feel, "Well, maybe I didn't ask for enough." I think that's something people need to keep in mind

“Nothing freaks me out and fills me with more anxiety,.. than asking for money”

In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:

I basically said it. It's okay to hear "No." The world doesn't end. It doesn't destroy your relationship. If you don't hear "No," you're not getting enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you recover from the "No?"

Allison S.:
Well, now as I said, it still stings. I sit there-

Bobbi Rebell:
But, can you just go back with your tail between your legs and be like, "Okay. I know you said no to that. Can you do this?" Or do you have to just walk? You just have to save face and be like, "Then I'm not going to do it."

Allison S.:
You come back with another alternative because most transactions aren't binary. It's not like you'll do this or it's not happened. There's maybe a third way. I become more of this school if you ask for the sun, maybe you'll get the moon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Maybe when you originally approach a negotiation, you make sure to not make it binary and not create absolutes. So, that starts at the beginning is giving yourself a way to circle back if you don't get the answer that you want.

Allison S.:
Exactly. What they do in the brothel is customer's a little nervous and they'll lay out like, "Hey. What do you think that they'll do?" He'll be like, "I don't know. I've never been here" and they'll be like, "All right. Here's what I think I should do." They'll lay out this elaborate sexual plan. It involves going to the movies, and dinner, and it's 12 hours. The guy will be like, "That's amazing" and then they'll be like, "Great. That'll be $15000." Then he's like, "Whoa, no" and then they're like, "All right. Well, maybe we can take dinner off the table."

Allison S.:
What you do is you have this big hairy ask but then there's components to it and you take it apart so no one's really ever heard "No." But, you have this whole ... It's actually a menu of choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Any specifics that you think people could use when they are applying it to their own life?

Allison S.:
Yeah. I mean, if you're ... Like I said, if you're negotiating for your salary, as I said, it doesn't have to be all monetary compensation. You could talk about flexible hours. You can talk about more vacation days. Or, as I said, even if you're asking a friend for a favor like they're going to promote your book. You can ask them to email everyone in their company and they'll probably say "No" because that's a little ballsy but maybe they'll share it on Facebook and it's something.

“If you ask for the sun, maybe you will get the moon”

In Allison's everyday money tip you will learn:

Risk is the cost of getting what you want. You don't want to take anymore than necessary. Diversification has been proven in finance as it gets rid of unnecessary risks but not all risk. That doesn't just apply to financial markets. It could apply to anything. It could be if you're in a job doing gig or contract work on the side if possible. So, you have that option. It could be keeping your network fresh, so you have other options if that job doesn't work out or you want a new skill. Or, it could even be with dating. I actually re-read the rules when I was doing the book because I keep [inaudible 00:10:47]. I was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, the book you're referring to is a book from years ago when two women wrote about these very harsh ... They sort of sound old fashion rules but they're almost playing hard to get, I guess. But, go on.

Allison S.:
Yeah. It's a much better book than you remember. But, one of their tips is don't be exclusive with someone until that you really know they're serious about you. I mean, they actually marry you but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Diversification then, in dating? Affectively. Yeah.

Allison S.:
It is and it really does bring out your best self. It really is efficient in some ways because it keeps you from getting invested in the wrong person. They could be a jerk and you don't know that yet because you don't really know who they are. It also makes you feel more desirable and attractive so really can be your best selves. Diversification really applies to anything.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Think about the things you can do to increase your odds of success in a negotiation. Allison talks about creating a menu of options asking for the most first but offering the other party at least something that they can give you to make it a win at some level. Think about a wine list at a restaurant. A lot of people pick the second cheapest one for a reason. The restaurant knows this and in many cases, they can actually build in the biggest profit margin because they know that's where everyone's going to gravitate towards.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Try to identify things you do that increase your risk. In the book, for example, Allison talks about how poker champions with stacks of money on the line have to factor in their irrational behavior as the stakes get higher. What do you do that is economically irrational? Shopping for food on an empty stomach. Yeah, that's me. Buying things because they're on sale. Me too. You get the idea. And let me know. DM me with your biggest irrational economic decisions. I would to hear and share with the community so we can all be a little bit more aware, and maybe we can come up with some ways to help.

Episode Links:

Allisons book An Economist Walks into a Brothel

Check out Allison's website -

www.AllisonSchrager.com

Follow Allison!

• Instagram - @AllisonSchrager

• Twitter - @AllisonSchrager

• Facebook - @Allison.Schrager

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

As a child, Joan Kuhl watched her single mom face severe financial discrimination. She shares the story of how this could have prevented the family from buying a home, and how it inspired her to become an advocate and mentor for women in the workplace. Plus money tips and  a preview of her new book “Dig Your Heels In”.

In Joan's money story you will learn:

• The important role her single mother played in her life

• The reason she felt like her mother was great role model

• Why her mother was charged more money for mortgage as a single parent

• The reason her mother believed it was important to know how to negotiate

“There are so many men that are coming to the table saying I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that is fair.“

In Joan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Know what you deserve

"We’re never going to really achieve this inclusive culture in the workplace if we don’t dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve"

In Joan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How Joan's $200 cash rule can really help you to put your spending into perspective

"They were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was. I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.“

In My Take you will learn:

• You can’t just say “I quit” and make it happen. There’s a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job. So tread carefully before you jump. Also read her book.
  

• Keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others are saying.

Episode Links:

Joan's book Dig Your Heels In can also be bought here on Amazon

Check out Joan's website -

www.JoanKuhl.com

Follow Joan!

• Instagram - @JoanKuhl

• Twitter - @JoanKuhl

• Facebook - @JoanKuhlSpeaker

• LinkedIn - @JoanKuhl
  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joan Kuhl:
I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grownup,” and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there today. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You may want to go back and replay that opening quote, it really happened, and yes, it is unbelievable. Welcome all, and to our new listeners, so glad you found us. Take a minute please, make sure you're subscribed, and say hi on the socials to let me know that you're here, RobbiRebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi on Twitter. Let's get to our guest, John Kuhl. K-U-H-L, Kuhl. She is the founder of "Why Millennials Matter" and the author of "Misunderstood Millennial Talent." Her latest book, which we're going to be talking about, is “Dig Your Heels In,” and when you hear in our interview about the incredible experiences her mom had, that's who she was talking about at the opening of the show, you're going to truly appreciate what a great role model Joan had in her mom and what a great role model Joan is. Here is Joan Kuhl.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Joan Kuhl, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Joan Kuhl:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm excited to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited, because I got a sneak peek at your new book "Dig Your Heels In." You are both a speaker, you're a consultant, you founded "Why Millennial's Matter and also "Courage to Stay," and as I've mentioned, now you've got "Dig Your Heels In", which is really about how to navigate, I don't know, we try to keep the E off the show, so I'm just going to say the corporate BS and build the company that you deserve, which is a book long overdue. I wish, we were talking [inaudible 00:02:19] like I wish I had this book when I had my corporate jobs, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
I know. Well, I'm here now, and so this is to empower the women that are working right now and make sure we pave the way for the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Speaking of next generation, you learned so much from your mom.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. So observing a mom that was really trying to build a better life for us, I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk. So ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait, they charged her more money because she had one income as a single mother, therefore she should pay more?

Joan Kuhl:
Yup. They lobbed on extra points onto her interest, her mortgage rate just because they considered her high risk, and like it was little things like that that I observed. It wasn't until I was older and we had those conversations when I was going after my first job offer and she was really in my corner saying "Negotiate, read everything in details," because I think that's when we started to understand some of the discrimination against women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people don't realize, we take this for granted that as a woman you could own a home, but this was really revolutionary, and I guess that's why they were able to pay, make her pay more. I mean, you talk about the pink tax.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, it's funny, this, a lot of this connects into why I wrote "Dig Your Heels In," even just thinking about the decisions that women make and sometimes feel forced to make because they're in a male dominated situation or a situation ripe with bias, so yeah, of course ... My mother was actually a teacher, and then she became a secre- she had multiple jobs, she was a secretary and she was trying to get an advanced degree, and then she was logging miles to get her pilots license, ultimately to get her in the door to become an air traffic controller, because she was kind of studying these fields that she thought she had the skills to transition into that would give her a higher income, and ultimately triple her income from being an inner city school teacher. So it's just things like that that really inspired me "Okay, well women should be able to go after what we want, but we should also not be pushed out of fields that we love or companies that we work so hard to get in the door of because we're not being paid equally."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and so there's the double irony. So she wasn't able to be paid equally to men, and yet she was being forced to pay more at the time than them. When she had this situation with for example the mortgage, at that time did she have any recourse? Was she able to negotiate at all or was it "If you want a mortgage, this is what it is?"

Joan Kuhl:
"This is what it is." It's funny, and now like I've seen over probably since my early teens, my mom will negotiate anything, even at an Anne Taylor in the mall, with her phone bills, and I think it was because of those experiences where she felt so scared, right? She's got like, even though I saw her as brave and courageous, you have a fear when you're a single parent of like, she just finally got the money to get us into a better home, you know, why would she risk not getting the loan approved just because they were discriminating against her in terms of the rate?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's incredible. So what is the lesson for our listeners from this story? Obviously, first of all always negotiate, but what do you think your lesson would be and what would your mom's lesson be?

Joan Kuhl:
Well, I think it is absolutely know what we deserve, and so I think it is not, sometimes when we are in a situation where we do think somebody might have more knowledge than us, so that's a situation where you're going for a home loan or something, and you think "Oh, well this person has the expertise, they have the credibility, and if they're pushing back on something I'm asking for maybe there's a legitimate reason," I wouldn't let it stop there. I think that's why there's so many amazing organizations right now of women talking to each other. One of the biggest things I've learned from my mom is we have to talk about money. One story I'll quickly share with you, I felt competent negotiation my salary and asking for a higher salary than most people when I graduated from college because of the net my friends that were guys that graduated the year before and were getting recruited by all these big consulting firms, they were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was, but I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's amazing. What kind of reaction did you get when you asked for those higher numbers?

Joan Kuhl:
I will never forget sitting in front of this woman, and it was actually a hotel management company, and I told her and she literally laughed at me. She was so condescending, like she could not believe I had the gall [inaudible 00:06:39]-

Bobbi Rebell:
A woman?

Joan Kuhl:
A woman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, and it happens, right? And I said to her, and I just started spouting off, I'm like "This company, this company, Deloitte, Accenture, Price Waterhouse Coopers, all these companies, and this is the kind of benefits they offer, and I've, I'm in the final rounds of interviews with them too, so I also know I'm the number one candidate for this job." And this is where I always laugh when they say millennials are entitled. I think that anyone that's young that kind of has the [foreign language 00:07:02] to say "This is what I know is the market value, and I'm going to ..." And I already knew that I work my butt off wherever I went, and so I always felt that gave me the confidence to say "Hey, this is what I believe I'm worth," and also "Hi, look how much it costs to go to school these days."

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting, the men will discuss money as a way of bragging, but very often women don't discuss it at all.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, exactly. I even just remember when we were at graduation and my mom was so proud, and my godmother came with her too to my, and I was the speaker at my graduation, huge university, University of Pittsburgh for the College of Business, and a couple of my girlfriends that we were all, had been presidents of clubs and had multiple job offers, our parents were like so excited talking to each other, and we were so embarrassed that they were talking about that we had these jobs, or the amount of money, or what the salaries were, whereas we knew that all the guys around us were like high fiving, they were telling their older brothers, ever- it was just, it's this strange thing that we feel like we have to shrink ourselves versus just talk about something that allows us to really feel on a level playing field.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's I think where men can actually be our partners and our assets, because we are their daughters, their wives, their friends, their girlfriends, their sisters, their nieces and so on, and they want to support us, so I think it's great that you really got support and information from your male friends and classmates to get that better offer, and that's why it's really an issue for everyone, and I think it's important that it be addressed that men can be our best advocates and our best assets in this as well.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, I've [inaudible 00:08:47] a lot of men and allies programs, and healthcare companies and sports companies, and there are so many men that are coming to the table saying "I want, I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be a part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that's fair and access, equally accessible to advancement, anything that we want."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. Let's move on to your everyday money tip Joan, because this is something we can all relate to, but we don't always do, and we should. Go for it.

Joan Kuhl:
So I have this 200 dollar cash rule that kind of by happenstance became a trick that I use, and I think it was because A, I used to realize I never had cash on me all the time, and living in New York City it's a must have, but it also allows me to see where unexpected things come up. So now as a mother, I have a five and a one-year-old, you've got birthday parties, or there's sometimes where, I always try to save and take public transportation, buses and subways, pride myself on that, but I look at the 200 dollar rule, I take it out on the first of the month, like I took it out this morning, and guess what, unfortunately today I got my hair done this morning, so I'm halfway done with that, with-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:09:51].

Joan Kuhl:
[crosstalk 00:09:51] dollars cash. Yeah, but that's the thing, I always say "Okay, this is my barometer of like how well I'm planning for my expenses." It's not like budgeting, but things come up like the birthday gifts or, you know, my daughter needs something extra for an after school activity, or I am like "You know what? I want to go out tonight and I didn't plan for it." So that's kind of my rule, is just looking at where the cash goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really important, because it also gives you an indication if that's how fast your actual cash is going, which can feel more painful, think how much is going that's sort of just automated in your life, that's being sucked out of your bank accounts for all of this bills, which we should automate of course, but we don't really feel it the same way. At least with the cash you're feeling it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book "Dig Your Heels In." So important. I feel like this is sort of the next wave. We had "Lean In," and that made sense to a lot of people at that time, but now you've really hit on something that is so important. "Dig Your Heels In," really, it's a metaphor, but it's not, it's literal too to a large degree. I love a quote from the book that you say, "By leaving your company are you running away from something or running towards something? Are you jumping ship because you just 'can't deal any longer,' or is the new opportunity something that really excites you and fulfills your career ambition?" Because sometimes, there's a lot of running away Joan, there really is.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. And I always say digging your heels in is a personal decision, and so I am in no way, shape or form telling everyone to grin and bear it if your situation's toxic, but the majority of the time the women that I have met over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of women around the world for global research projects, you get backed into a corner, and I think sometimes the sexy thing in popular culture right now is to get a bigger title, or a bigger promotion, or more money if you jump and ghost ship, or that the only way to advance is to be a girl boss and start your own thing, but the truth is you have so much equity in where you are right now and so much opportunity to really transform that company, and taking stock, taking a deep breath, really thinking about those ah-ha moments, what is really frustrating you there and how can you turn that into fuel and really disrupt the status quo? We're never going to, I think really achieve this inclusive culture and workplace if we don't dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also point out in the book that we think that we're the only ones feeling a certain way, but you interviewed the very highest achieving female executives who look, their lives look perfect on the outside, and as you got to know them and as they opened up to you these top executives were barely surviving rather than thriving as you perceived them to be.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, that threw me completely for a loop. I was so naive in my mindset thinking they were living this glamorous career, personal and professional lives, and to really hear their battle scars of what they had gone through and they endured taught me a lot about sometime that dynamic between women at work in different generations, but also that we still have so much work to do. I interviewed Reece Witherspoon a couple months ago who also told me that she has bouts with imposter syndrome. I mean, it's Reece Witherspoon. So one of side of this is the self limiting mindset that we can figure out how to overcome, and some of that is pushed on us because of bias in the system and around us, but the other side of it is the system's broken, and I think that's why we need to identify some tactical ways to change it, and that's why I want "Dig Your Heels In to be a real playbook that shows examples of women doing just that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because you have a lot of these broad strokes, you have a lot of really important statistics in this book, but you also interview women and give very specific stories that are relatable to all of us, and we see ourselves in that and there's a lot of value in that, so I really hope everyone will pick up "Dig Your Heels In." So Joan, just to wrap up tell us where people can get the book and hear more about you and be in touch with you, your socials, all that good stuff?

Joan Kuhl:
Awesome. So I have a brand new website, JoanKuhl.com J-O-A-N K-U-H-L. "Dig Your Heels In," we have a fantastic website that's DigYourHeelsIn.com and the book is sold everywhere books are sold, so Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, you name it. If you order it and you go and enter your information on my website you will get a ton of free resources that I developed as things that are master classes on work and life hacks and some great jumpstart your career guides. And on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook I'm @JoanKuhl as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
Thanks, Bobbi. I love talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right my friends, here's my take. Financial grown up tip number one, I want to address something that Joan alluded to, but we didn't really get to explore fully, and that is that we are having a cultural moment where we really glorify the idea of the entrepreneur, of being the boss babe and so on. We hear so many stories about being a boss, and changes in cultural norms and in technology do allow a lot more entrepreneurship, but don't be fooled. There is no paycheck coming every two weeks, at least not for a long time for most entrepreneurs, and of course there's that healthcare thing, and you can't just say "I quit" and just instantly have a business. There are a lot of things that go on in order to have a successful business, and it rarely is an overnight success. There are usually years of hard work behind the scenes that you don't hear about when you read these articles of what seems like overnight successes. So it's important that you acknowledge and understand that as Joan talks about, there are a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job as well. You can be an intrapreneur, which means you sort of build little businesses within a company, but with the company's support, which includes of course that ongoing paycheck and that financial security of a job. So tread carefully before you jump, and also of course read Joan's book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others of both sexes are saying. That can be in person and it can also be maybe in chat rooms online, it can be being part of a mastermind group or even on social media platforms, for example Facebook Groups and so on. It's a cliché for a reason, information is power.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you all enjoyed spending time with us today, now I need your help. Please make sure you are subscribed, and if you have friends or colleagues that you think will enjoy these interviews and these podcast episodes with, for example amazing role models like Joan, please encourage them to subscribe as well, and of course ratings and reviews are gold to us, we appreciate every single one. Big thanks to "Dig Your Heels In" author Joan Kuhl for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Philanthropist and "Simple Acts" author Natalie Silverstein learned first hand the power of empathy when her 7-year old son surprised her with a true act of kindness. She shares that experience along with specific ways Financial Grownups can give back to their communities with their family and friends. 

In Natalie's money story you will learn:

• How the verbiage we use with children about those less fortunate than us can be so important

• The importance of knowing that all kids are different and learn at different speeds

• How, when her son was about 7 years old, he knew that a homeless man in the subway needed help and proceeded to give all he had at the time

• Natalie and her son, now 16, had a very similar experience just recently where her son, once again, gave all that he had

In Natalie’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's so important to keep the lines of communication open with our children

• The importance of sharing our resources with our children while they are still young

• How showing our children gratitude for what we have can be so meaningful to them

• Showing our children how we can help people that don't have as much as they do

• The way we word things to our children can have an impact of how they view those people who are less fortunate

In Natalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

• If you have a child celebrating a birthday they can make a donation to a charity of their choosing at one of the websites listed below to help them learn about donating money

In My Take you will learn:

• The subtitle of the book is The Busy Family’s Guide to Giving Back. If you don’t have young kids- don’t let that stop you. Pick up Natalie’s book and get going. 

• Plan ahead for how you are going to interact with people that may be less fortunate than you.
  

Episode Links:

www.EchoAge.com

www.KidsCanGiveToo.com

www.SilversteinFoundation.org

Check out Natalie's website -

www.SimpleActsGuide.com

Follow Natalie!

• Instagram - @simpleacts_guide

• Twitter - @simpleactsguide

• Facebook - @simpleacts_guide

---

Transcription

Nat Silverstein:
Very quietly, he didn't even look up while he was doing it, he unzipped the little side pocket and he pulled out a nickel, and when the man came by, he kind of quietly put it in his cup, didn't look up at him. He obviously understood that he had something that he didn't need, and that he could give it to this man.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. This story you just heard a preview of at the top of the show literally gave me chills when my friend Natalie shared it with me, and there's more where that came from. I'm really excited to share this interview. I also want to thank everyone, truly, for joining us. The show is really picking up steam and that's because of you. The support that you've been giving to the show is priceless, especially when you not only subscribe but also tell friends about the show. I just wanted to say an official thank you again. It's really appreciated. We grow one listener at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Natalie Silverstein. She is a really big deal. Natalie is a frequent writer, speaker, and consultant on the topic of family service, presenting to parents, educators, and children, and I got to know her, actually, when our children went to school together. As you will hear, she was the go-to mom if you wanted to do something good with your kids, a service project, volunteering, and so on. I remember taking my son to different activities suggested by Natalie when he was younger. Very hands-on, getting it done. Natalie runs the New York chapter of Doing Good Together and has just come out with her first book, Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. When I was reading this book, I could literally hear the voice of Natalie behind the writing, that's how intensely personal this book was for Natalie.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's just get to the interview. Here is Natalie Silverstein.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Natalie Silverstein, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast!

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you so much, Bobbi! Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is such a treat because we are friends beyond the podcast. Our children actually went to school together.

Nat Silverstein:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so appropriate that you finally, finally wrote a book. You run the New York chapter of Doing Good Together, and now you've written the book Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back, so congratulations.

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you, thank you so much. A few years back, my kids were little, I have an 18-year-old, an almost-16-year-old, and an 11-year-old, same as you, and I really was just searching around New York City, trying to find volunteer opportunities, organizations, nonprofits, that would take us as volunteers. I just was sort of astonished at the number of people in need in this city, in this community, and the lack of opportunities for me to volunteer and to do good with my kids. I always joke around, you can get Chinese food at four in the morning, you can get anything you want any time in New York City, but I could not, for the life of me, find a place that would welcome my young children to volunteer, so I thought I would create something on my own.

Nat Silverstein:
Instead of creating a website, or a listing, or a subscriber list, I sort of noodled around on the internet and I found Doing Good Together, which is based in Minneapolis. It's been around for about 15 years, and they had a fantastic family-friendly listing of volunteer opportunities that they sent out to subscribers every month. I reached out to the founder and I said, "I'd like to do this, I'd like to franchise your idea and be your person on the ground in New York City." She flipped out and said, "This is exactly what I've always wanted, I've wanted to go national and spread the message of what we're doing here." I was the first other location, and now we're in several other cities, and so I curate this listing, and they push it out for me to all of my subscribers, and that's been really gratifying work. Through all of that, I did, as you mentioned, become sort of this defacto community service lady.

Bobbi Rebell:
As parents, and even if you're not a parent, you have people in your life, and you look at them, and you don't know if they really are understanding what they have and what other people don't have, and the importance of acts of kindness and simple things that you can give back. You're very candid in the book that you've had your own struggles with your own family about teaching them the values that you have and getting them to basically get on board.

Nat Silverstein:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us your money story.

Nat Silverstein:
I have three really wonderful kids. My son is in the middle, and while the two girls are very sort of emotionally connected, have very high EQ, super sensitive to other people's feelings, my boy is kind of a typical boy. When he was younger, he was a little bit head in the clouds, a little spacey. You'd be talking to him, and I joke around and say you could be crying hysterically in front of him and he'd be like, "Oh, gee, do you have a cookie?" He's a wonderful, affectionate, warm person, but when he was younger it really felt like it didn't quite connect, he didn't connect all the dots. I joked around that I sort of worried that he lacked this empathy chip, this piece of your soul that kind of connects to other people and understands what people are going through.

Nat Silverstein:
One day, we're on the subway, he and I, and he was young, maybe like seven or eight. There was a gentleman panhandling on the subway, as happens very frequently here in New York City. The gentleman was telling his story very passionately, and asking for help genuinely and articulately, and everyone on the subway is doing what people mostly do here in New York. They look down, looking at their phones, sort of ignoring him, not really making eye contact with him. It is very difficult to deal with homelessness in the street when you are dealing with it, because it would be very hard to help every single person.

Nat Silverstein:
But I'm sitting there and I'm looking at my son, I'm seeing him process all of this, and very quietly, and he didn't even look up while he was doing it, he unzipped the little side pocket, you know there's little pockets on the jacket, and he put his hand in, and he pulled out a nickel. Honestly, I don't know where he got this nickel. He probably found it on the street or found it on the playground, stuck it in his little zipper pocket, this little hidden pocket. He just pulled it out, and when the man came by, he kind of quietly put it in his cup, didn't look up at him. I was so moved in that moment, I just was like, first of all, where did this come from? He obviously understood that he had something that he didn't need and that he could give it to this man. Again, very quietly, without any fanfare.

Nat Silverstein:
I will fast-forward and tell you that we were just on the subway again together the other day, and the same thing happened. He's a big boy now, he's almost 16, and he pulled out his wallet, and he took out a dollar, and he put it in the man's cup before we got off the train. So I worried about him, and I didn't know if he was getting it all along, and he really kind of got it. It was gratifying to me, but every kid has to come at this and to this at their own speed. All kids are different, we know that, and again, it has to be all of this, doing service, acts of kindness, philanthropy, these have to be conversations and things that happen in your family on an ongoing everyday routine basis, because those are the drops in the bucket, those are the things that really fill out a kid's character, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversation did you have with him after this happened when he was younger? How old was he?

Nat Silverstein:
He was seven or eight. He was really little.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have a conversation? What was it like?

Nat Silverstein:
I did. We were holding hands, walking out of the subway, and I was like, "Oh, I'm really proud of you for doing that. I didn't know that you had that in your pocket, and I was kind of surprised." He didn't want to talk about it so much. I think that's the other thing, there's a lot of, my book talks about, reflection and really giving kids space to ask questions and to talk about what they'd like to do in terms of moving forward. Would they like to continue to do service in this way, and how did they feel about what they saw and what they heard? But there's also a little bit of, you don't want to over-talk it, and you want to just let it kind of be a part of the way that you move through the world. I just told him I was really proud of him and I thought that that was a really nice, kind thing to do, and that hopefully this man would be able to get some food with that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that story?

Nat Silverstein:
I think it's watching and listening to your own kids, teaching about money, learning about money, and particularly learning about philanthropy and sharing of your resources is very personal to a family. These concepts of generosity, and service, and empathy, all of that goes along with a conversation about money and gratitude for what we have, and understanding and acknowledging that not everyone in the world has as much as we do, so how lucky we are. Also, what are the ways in which we can help other people who maybe don't have as much?

Nat Silverstein:
There's a lot of language around this social justice stuff. We talk about not calling someone a homeless person, but a person who is experiencing homelessness, because the notion is, "There but for the grace of God go I." homeless people generally are people who had a home, had a job, had a family. Something has happened, right now they're experiencing this, hopefully they can get help and they can find a home, find a job, go back to school. So much of the language around philanthropy and service has sort of judgment around financial and socioeconomic status, and so I just think these are important conversations to have with kids, and to always talk about how grateful we are for what we have. To be honest, it's not always going to be perfect, and sometimes things aren't going to go perfectly when you're doing volunteer work and that sort of thing, but just kind of always keeping the lines of communication open with kids on this.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like what you said about learning not to judge, because that's something even just among adults, we should not judge people that are going through tough times.

Nat Silverstein:
Sure. Words like impoverished, and needy, and hungry, yes, food insecurity is a real thing, and I think that phrase has really come up lately. The notion that kids go to school hungry every day and it's not because they don't have homes, or families that love them, or their parents don't have jobs, it's because at the end of the month, money starts to run tight, and there's not as much food. We know that a lot of kids get their meals at school, and so kids need to understand that this is a real thing that happens to a lot of children in their own communities, and that there are simple things that they can be doing, that your family can be doing, to help others who are in that position, and hopefully help them to get out of that position. It's not always a handout, it's a hand-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move onto your money tip, because this basically will tell us all how we can execute these ideas, specific apps that will make it easier to have your children get involved and give back.

Nat Silverstein:
One idea in particular that I wanted to share is if you have a child who's celebrating a birthday, or a bar mitzvah, or a sweet 16, or a confirmation, or anything, any wonderful milestone, and they would like to make some sort of charitable donation as part of that celebration, which I think is so critically important, and shows that in our joy, we are able to share that joy with others who perhaps are in need, there are a couple of websites, one's called ECHOage, one's called Kids Can Give Too, and these are gift sharing websites. The birthday child, or the special event child, registers with their website, selects a charity to support, there are literally hundreds to choose from, and then asks guests, in lieu of getting gifts, to make a monetary donation on the website.

Nat Silverstein:
The website collects all the funds and splits it, and I think in some cases the kids can even say how much of a split they want. Do they want 50/50? Do they want 60/40? Do they want 70/30? So that's sort of an interesting conversation, too. The child can say, "I want to do 50/50." Half of the money they collect through this website from their guests, and their friends, and their family, will go to the charity of their choosing, and half will come back to them so they can select one special, important gift for them. It's kind of a win/win, everybody feels like they've given something to the child, and the child feels like they've given back something to a charity that they care about. I do find sometimes when you ask for in lieu of gifts, people don't like doing that because they want so much to give a gift, and I totally get it, so this is sort of the best of both worlds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because the kid is still getting a gift, so they're more likely to do it, because sometimes people, as you said, they just end up not doing anything rather than go to the toy store. That's a great solution.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and about your book, Simple Acts: A Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back, and all the other ventures that you're involved with?

Nat Silverstein:
Well, I am on Instagram, simpleacts_guide, so if you look at simpleacts_guide, you'll find me. Facebook, Twitter, also simpleacts_guide. I have a website, simpleactsguide.com, and of course the Gryphon House website. Gryphon House is my publisher, and they have lots of pages of my background, and a little more information about the book, and ways that you can order the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Natalie, this was amazing.

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you, Bobbi, I really appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. When it comes to role models, Natalie is the total package. Here's my take on what she had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: family is how you define it. The subtitle of this book is The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. Just because you don't have young kids, don't let that stop you. Pick up Natalie's book and get going with your family, again, however you define family.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: plan ahead for how you are going to interact with people that may be less fortunate than you, and decide in advance, for example, if you are out with a child, maybe your own child, maybe a niece, a nephew, a friend's child, what have you, if you see a homeless person, for example, how are you going to handle it? As Natalie said, that is a personal choice, but in the moment, you might panic and not have the right language, and so if this child asks you about it, it's important that you approach it using the right words. As Natalie pointed out, those words that we use, for example, saying food insecure, or experiencing homelessness, using those kinds of choices, they can really shape the perception of a child when they encounter these very precarious and difficult situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, for more specific tips, Natalie did stick around and taped a Financial Grownup Guide episode about ways to be a kinder financial grownup, so make sure that you are subscribed, because it's a really special episode, and we will be rolling it out in just a couple of weeks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Natalie Silverstein for really being the ultimate role model and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Erin Lowry, author of Broke Millennial Takes on Investing thought her new hubby was all set when he assured her he had bought life insurance to protect his parents obligation to his student debt. But a chance discovery revealed the insurance was not what either of them thought he had purchased. 

In Erin's money story you will learn:

• Erin is a newlywed - Congrats again Erin!!

• Her husband had a huge amount of student debt that his parents had co-signed for

• She suggested that he get life insurance so that, in the unfortunate event that he were to lose his life, the debt wouldn't pass to his parents

• She found out that the life insurance he got was Whole Life insurance instead of Term Life insurance

• Why Whole Life Insurance wasn't the best for him

• The difference between Whole Life Insurance and Term Life Insurance

In Erin’s money lesson you will learn:

• Fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can’t do anything that is harmful to you.

• Her husband was sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him

In Erin's everyday money tip you will learn:

• When she receives change back from a purchase, she saves the $5 bills. In 2018 she saved over $1000 to use towards her honeymoon

In My Take you will learn:

• There’s a lot of financial jargon out there. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don’t understand.

• I’ve been talking a lot recently about what I call the Family Ecosystem. You are not just responsible for yourself, even if you are single.

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Erin Lowry:
My editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy." And I thought, "You know what? You're right." Then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. Have you ever had a conversation with someone that in your mind was totally straight forward? The conversation was totally straight forward with no room for error or misunderstanding, super clear and clear to them, they said they got it, but there was one deal once you didn't realize you had been silent to and they didn't know to ask about and that caused things to go very wrong? Well, it happened to newlywed author, Erin Lowry, and it serves as a real warning to all of us because it can happen to a money expert and her new husband.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, by the way, and thanks for joining us, new listeners, so glad you have found us. DM me if you have a sec, bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi Rebell on Twitter and let me know how you discovered the show and what you would like to hear. We do this for you. Let's get to our guest. Her new book is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, which after you hear more about it will definitely be something you want to pick up. Here is Erin Lowry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erin Lowry, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erin Lowry:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited. I've been waiting to have you on my show for over a year and we said we're going to wait and hold off until your next book comes out and it's happening. It is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing and people should know this. This is a followup to your first book, Broke Millennial, and there's actually going to be a third one, which is pretty unheard of to do like a three ... Do we call it a hat trick to get a three book deal? That's pretty amazing. So congratulations on all.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, but first we're going to do your money story. You're a newlywed. Congratulations on your wedding and that comes with merging finances and you start to learn about the love of your life in different ways. In this case you learned that your now husband did the right thing, but made the wrong choice in a big financial decision and it just shows how complicated things are. It had to do with student loans and insurance. Tell us the story.

Erin Lowry:
It also shows that when you give somebody advice they take it sometimes, but don't take it in the way that you intended, which was a big part of what happened here. And for context, my husband, whom I call Peach, he has student loans. When this whole thing went down, first of all, it was not an insignificant amount. I don't really share his number, but it was a hefty chunk of change.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're talking about student debt?

Erin Lowry:
Student loan debt. Yep. And a big chunk of those student loans were private student loans that his parents had cosigned on, which meant that if something happened to him, his parents would still be responsible for paying off those loans and by something happening, I mean, if he died, and the debt was still there. His parents would still be required to pay off that student loan debt. Now, I want to say right now, some companies have changed their policies and started to discharging debt and most federal student loans can be discharged in death, but not necessarily the case with private.

Erin Lowry:
After we have this conversation, this was a few years before we got married, I said, "I think it would be prudent for you to get a life insurance policy on yourself because seriously having forbid something happen, your parents are still on the hook for a lot of money and that could really impact their ability to retire. So you should have a life insurance policy that has them as the beneficiaries."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And the good news is he took your advice.

Erin Lowry:
He did. And I just kind of said it. I wasn't even necessarily like, "Go do this right now." He went and got a life insurance policy and a few months later I was actually writing an article on life insurance and I interviewed him for it. He told me how much he was paying every month and what the payout would be. And I wrote the article up and my editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy."

Erin Lowry:
I thought, "You know what? You're right." And then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy." So I go back and I went, "Hey babe, what kind of life insurance policy did you get?"

Bobbi Rebell:
"Hey babe, let's talk life insurance tonight?"

Erin Lowry:
So sexy. It's such a great topic. He had indeed gotten a whole life insurance policy and I tried not to get any sort of aggressive about it. He was like, "Why?"

Bobbi Rebell:
He's like, "Aren't you proud of me? I went out and got life insurance just like you said," and he had actually talked to somebody. He didn't even go out blindly and just kind of buy it ... I don't even know if you can literally just buy it on the web. There's obviously a step that you have to take. But he did proactively talk to somebody about it and get "advice" and I put advice in quotation marks.

Erin Lowry:
And that was where the problem was, is the person that he talked to was essentially pitching him a product, and listen, the pitch on whole life insurance is great. It does sound really good, I get it. But on the backend, this salesperson, and I'm going to call them a salesperson also probably got a commission for signing him up for whole life insurance. This is a fiduciary versus suitability conversation. Fiduciary meaning it's in your best interest. Suitability, just meaning it's suitable for you. Whole life is suitable for him, but it certainly wasn't the best product for him, what his needs were and what his age was.

Erin Lowry:
Even what it is now, it doesn't make sense for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Could you explain a little bit about why? Why was whole life insurance not right for him and how is that different from term life, which is what was appropriate for him.

Erin Lowry:
Without getting into the weeds on technicalities, a big part of it really is one, the monthly premium that you're paying on a whole life insurance policy is usually significantly more expensive than term. Significant can be kind of a subjective term, but he was at the time in his mid 20s trying to pay off student loans, living in New York City and he's a public school teacher. So $25.50 a month in his budget does make a really big difference.

Erin Lowry:
That was thing one and two term life insurance is usually much lower monthly payments, typically a higher payout. It's just for a shorter period of time and it's a use it or lose it policy. So if you stay alive, which "Yay! You stay alive," and don't use it, the policy eventually just expires. So some people don't like this feeling of, "Well, I never see a return on my money," but that's true. Really most insurances that we pay for, if you have auto insurance and never get in a car accident, yay, you didn't get in a car accident, but also what were you paying for? You we're just paying for the protection.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so term life does not have an investment component and therefore when the term is over, if you do not use it, which we hope we don't use it, there is nothing left. There's no benefit at all. You have just spent the money and the money that you spent on those premiums is gone, but it is less money.

Erin Lowry:
It's less money. You can be putting the money that you're not spending towards other financial goals and or investments. The other thing you've got to think about is does this particular product make the most sense for you? Whole life insurance does make sense for some people. It didn't make sense for him at the time. Maybe way down the line it will make more sense, but right now all he needed was a basic simple term life insurance policy.

Bobbi Rebell:
What finally happened?

Erin Lowry:
He called the folks back up that had sold him the whole life insurance policy and said, "Hey, this isn't actually what I wanted. I want a term policy." The woman tried to talk him into staying with the whole, he was adamant-

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Oh, I hate that.

Erin Lowry:
Yep. So there was a back and forth, but he was adamant about switching to term. He switched to term, has a really basic policy. Now that we're married, actually we have to have a whole other conversation about life insurance as well in our own estate planning, but he still does have that policy because those student loans still do exist. We're working on getting rid of them and his parents are still the beneficiary because again, if something happened to him, even though he and I are married, if something happens to him, his parents would still be on the hook for those particular student loans. They didn't transfer it to me in our marriage.

Bobbi Rebell:
And he was able to get out of the whole life insurance policy? He wasn't locked in?

Erin Lowry:
He wasn't locked in. He was able to switch.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, it's the same company actually. He didn't switch companies, but he did completely switch policies.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? It sounds like they really need to understand fiduciary versus a salesperson.

Erin Lowry:
The big thing is understanding fiduciary versus suitability. And for me, I also use this story in my book to talk about sniffing out a scam. I don't want to say he was necessarily scammed in the way that we traditionally think, especially when we think about investing, but he was definitely sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him. And I want you to consider that anytime you're working with any sort of professional, because they don't necessarily have your ultimate best interest in mind, they might also have their bank account in mind and you need to know how that person is getting paid.

Erin Lowry:
For instance, if you're a financial adviser gets paid on commission, you need to understand how that's going to be impacting your overall portfolio. What products are they putting in there that they get a kickback for? Now, I'm not saying everybody that takes commission is working in any sort of nefarious ways, but I am saying you need to make sure you understand exactly what that means for you and your investments. And again, fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can't do anything that's harmful to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your everyday money tip. It's something you really do and it has made a big difference in your life.

Erin Lowry:
Yes, and this is going to sound so silly to people, but I like to save $5 bills, and I know a lot of people don't use cash anymore. I still do like to use cash and every single time I get a $5 bill back when I pay for something in cash, I put it inside in a little jar and just let that money accumulate. And then eventually I put it all in my bank account. And in 2018, I saved over a thousand dollars to put towards my honeymoon fund account just with this tiny little trick.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. So let's just talk briefly about your latest book, number two, out of your three book series, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing. Tell us more about what sets this apart and the kind of advice that people could expect from the book?

Erin Lowry:
This is a true beginners guide to investing and that's the way I like to position it. Also, I'm not an investing expert. What I like to consider myself in this book is a translator. So I went out and interviewed a bunch of very, very smart, very experienced people and was able to distill this into a more digestible package. But the reason I wrote the book is because, listen, there are great investing books out there, but a lot of them do kind of operate under the assumption that you have some base level knowledge when it comes to investing. And frankly, most of us don't when we're just getting started.

Erin Lowry:
So I wanted to write a book that bridged the gap. It assumes that you have no background in investing, no base level knowledge and if you do, great, there's still content for you, but you don't need to know what asset allocation or index funds are or time horizon means or anything like that in order to pick up my book. It also really talks a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to kind of get control over that because a lot of us do fear and are intimidated by the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love the fact that you actually have a ton of just plain definitions in the book.

Erin Lowry:
Yes. There's a whole chapter about having this sort of baseline understanding of terminology and I even kind of apologize and the beginning of, "Hey, I know this is about to get real technical bear with me," but it's important that you understand the language because these are the terms you're going to hear when you're out there as an investor and you want to make sure you know what people are talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And never be afraid to ask a question that you "think is dumb," because there've been times I've asked questions that I'm embarrassed to ask and you know what? The person I'm asking doesn't actually know the answer. They're kind of faking their way through it, so don't fake it and pretend you understand something when you don't. It's okay. Ask the questions or look it up in Erin's book. There you go.

Erin Lowry:
That was actually one of my favorite parts of writing this book is learning terms and like, "Oh, that's what a basis [inaudible 00:12:22] is." It really wasn't helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people gloss over those things and don't actually know what they mean. You would be surprised. Just say. Great. Give us all your socials and where people can find out more about the book and you.

Erin Lowry:
I am on Instagram @brokemillennialblog, on Twitter @BrokeMillennial, Facebook the same. You can find a lot of information about me on my website, brokemillennial.com, and both my first and second books are available wherever books are sold. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Powell's, Indie books, hopefully your local bookstore and I always like to make a plug for your local library and if it's not there, please request it and get it on the shelf.

Bobbi Rebell:
And make sure everyone follow her on Instagram. She does great AMA, so that's one of my favorite parts of all of your social. So thank you Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. There's a lot of financial jargon out there. Erin talks about it a lot. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don't understand. I get it. It can be embarrassing to ask someone something you think you should know, but by the way, a lot of times those people are nodding along pretending they fully get it and they may not or they may think they get it and they don't really know the questions to ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
As was the case with Erin's husband where he didn't know to ask exactly what kind of life insurance because he didn't know and he certainly wasn't educated by the salesperson what to ask and what the nuance differences are between different kinds of life insurance. So Erin has a lot of definitions in her book, but you can also check out websites for example, I like a website called Investopedia. It breaks down exactly what things really mean. Takes away the jargon.

Bobbi Rebell:
As I often say, the IRS website. Yes, the irs.gov website is also great at clarifying how certain things work. You forget about this, but a lot of the savings vehicles and retirement plans that we have are named after their tax code, like the 401k or the 529. Those numbers, that's the meaning of the numbers. They're actually part of the tax code. I know it's kind of crazy, but that's our system.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. I've been talking a lot recently about what I call, the family ecosystem. You're not just responsible for yourself if you're going to be a financial grownup. Even if you're single, you likely have financial ties to members of your family you may not even realize. For example, you may be with somebody who's your partner. They may have ties that both of you aren't fully aware of in terms of top of mind. If you really think about it, you are and that's what I'm asking you to do, but it may not be the first thing you think of.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think of yourself as just single. It could be something like in the case of Erin's new husband, co-signing on debt of some sorts, student debt in that case. Maybe it's a car loan or even a mortgage or maybe you and your siblings could find yourselves in the future caring for parents or another member of the older generation and you have financial responsibilities. You may need to pick up the pieces of something that they did not do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe they didn't save enough for retirement. This could be something that you get involved with. Maybe you'll inherit something with your siblings. The point is make sure that you know and that you talk about it with anyone that's a stakeholder. Erin didn't cosign her husband's student debt, but she is definitely a stake holder. Thanks so much for spending this time with us. Please subscribe. We have an amazing spring lineup of guests you don't want to miss, and we are also doing some listener requested topics on the Financial Grownup guide series that we roll out on the weekends. So feel free to send in suggestions on the socials.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can DM me at Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell and our email is hello@financialgrownup.com. Big thanks to Broke Millennial, Erin Lowry, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The bosses behind design website "Of a Kind", the podcast “A Few Things” and the new book “Work Wife” share their experience finally being offered the investor funding they fought for-  and then walking away from the deal. Plus a preview of their new book “Work Wives".

In Erica and Claire's money story you will learn:

• They started trying to raise money when they started their retail business in 2010

• Their business, Of A Kind, is an e-commerce site that is focused primarily fashion and design

• How they were finally able to get some money In 2013 for their business

• Why Claire and Erica didn't like the terms of the agreement.

• How they finally decided that the money wasn't what they wanted after all

In Erica and Claire’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's so important to listen to your gut. If it's something you thought you wanted but then decided it wasn't, it's okay to change your mind and walk away

• Why what they thought they wanted would only bring new and different problems

In Erica and Claire's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why Erica feels strongly about having multiple accounts that have money automatically being put into each account

• When Claire and her husband combined finances they both started taking the same percentage of their paychecks to contribute to shared account.

In My Take you will learn:

• How the benefits of friendships in business can also be platonic relationships between the opposite sex

• Why it's important to read all the paperwork like Erica and Claire did

Episode Links:

Erica and Claire's book Work Wife

Check out Erica and Claire's website -

www.OfAKinda.com

Follow Erica and Claire!

• Instagram - @OfAKind

• LinkedIn - @OfAKind

• Pinterest - @OfAKind

• Twitter - @OfAKind

• Facebook - @OfAKind

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Claire Mazur:
For so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money, and I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us.

Erica Cerulo:
We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office I think up to two full days a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So when someone offers you the money, maybe for a business you've been building, that you've been asking for, begging for, searching for, for so long, and you finally get that offer. Well, it's a pretty good bet you'll say, "Thank you." And cash that check. But what if you have a bad gut feeling? What if there are things in the terms that you didn't really think would bother you, but then they really do? Nothing's ever free, and an investor money always comes with some strings. It's just a question of how tied up you're willing to be in those strings. And like many big life decisions, we often don't know until we are there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. New listeners, thank you for checking out the podcast. We bring you high achievers who share money stories that had big impacts on their lives, along with the lessons that they have learned, so we all get to benefit from their experiences. Today we are doing something extra special. We have two guests, Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You may already know their design website Of a Kind and their podcast A Few Things, and most recently their best selling, newly released book Work Wife, appropriately titled because these best friends are just that. And that friendship proved priceless when they had to make a key decision for their business in its startup time in search of cash. Here are Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcasts.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Said in unison.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect.

Erica Cerulo:
That's very us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very you. You guys are work wives. I'm gonna ask you to each say hi and say your names so everybody knows which voice is which of you.

Claire Mazur:
This is Claire Mazur, and I hope that this introduction helps people distinguish us because we're told all the time that our voices sound exactly alike.

Erica Cerulo:
At least on a podcast. This is Erica Cerulo.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. You guys are on in part to talk about, we have a great money story and all those good things, but congratulations on your latest together project appropriately titled Work Wife, and I should tell everyone this comes after other things which include a business called Of A Kind, which you still control, we can talk about how that's become a bigger venture, a podcast called A Few Things which I am a new and very dedicated fan of, and a newsletter called 10 things. So there's a lot going on guys.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. We have been at this not for over nine years, and the business has been around for eight years and some change, and we just keep adding on new projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys met in college, I should said?

Erica Cerulo:
Yes. It was when I was 19 and Claire was 18. So still teenagers.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys have a long history together, and that helps you deal with what we're gonna talk about as your money story, which was kind of a tough situation as young business women. Tell us your money story.

Claire Mazur:
We were a couple of years into the business, we had been trying to raise money, kind of the entire life of the business at that point. We started the business in 2010, which was a time of very frothy VC funding. It seemed like left, right and center, everybody was raising a million dollars or more very easily, and we had been struggling to do that, I think in part because we had a more traditional retail business than a lot of the [crosstalk 00:04:12].

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain what Of A Kind is actually for people that don't know.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah, absolutely. So Of A Kind is an e-commerce site. We are primarily fashion and design, so we sell clothes, accessories, jewelry, also personal care and paper goods from emerging designers, primarily in the United States. So it's really based on discovery and Erica and my love of discovering new designers and new makers, and telling the story behind the pieces. So we have a very party content arm to the business and we have since day one always told the story of all of the makers whose pieces are on the site.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So you guys go to raise money and the good news is there is a lot of money out there.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah.

Erica Cerulo:
And the bad news is we were really bad at raising it.

Claire Mazur:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did have opportunity to get funded.

Erica Cerulo:
We did. In about 2012 or 2013 we had gone out to investors and had conversations with a few angel investors who were very enthusiastic about our business and made us an, put a deal sheet in front of us, a term sheet in front of us, and what we were aiming for this whole time, right? To raise funding, to be able to grow the business more aggressively, and to pursue marketing and other growth opportunities that we hadn't been able to pursue to date because we were really scrappy and cash strapped.

Erica Cerulo:
In looking at their term sheet and in thinking about what this would mean for the business, we came to this realization that we didn't want the terms. We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office at least one full day a week, I think up to two full days a week, and while we valued their input, we didn't want them to be involved in the business in that capacity.

Erica Cerulo:
So we were sort of in this place where we were like, well what do we do here? This is what we thought we wanted, but here we are and it's not what we want.

Claire Mazur:
It took a minute for us to really get there because for so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money. And I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us. And really, the options at that point were to walk away, to try to find money from somebody else, or to take the leap and say, okay, we're gonna take the money and hope it goes well. And what we realized, and what we were really fortunate to be able to do at that point was we had just started to be cash flow positive. So we were able to say no to them because we realized, okay, if we were cash flow positive last month we know we can do it again next month, and we know we can continue to just sort of put money back into the business. And we were able to pull together a little bit of friends and family funding to close the delta, because obviously we weren't making as much money as these investors were offering us. But it felt like absolutely the right decision at the time.

Claire Mazur:
It was a while ago, but I can't even remember how much discussion went into it. I think we really knew at the end of the day, especially when we got that report from our accountants that showed us how much money we were making we were like, okay, this is the right decision.

Erica Cerulo:
I also, I remember having the conversation, we were in South by Southwest, we were sitting in the Airbnb that we were renting, and basically coming to the realization that this wasn't money that we wanted, and that we would find another way, and that the thing that would impact the business at that point most, more than having those significantly bigger marketing budget or more than having the other things that we really wanted to be able to spend this money on was another head count and being able to at higher, I think at this point it woulda been our second employee so it woulda been Claire and I, we had a third employee, and this would be our sort of fourth person on the team. And that, that would allow Claire and I to be able to focus more on some of the bigger picture things that we weren't really able to think about at that point. And that, that could be the difference in the future of the company maybe more than the money would.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was the conversation like? Did you just say, we're not gonna do this and walk away? Or was there an attempt to negotiate?

Erica Cerulo:
We had definitely attempted to negotiate with them for sure. And those were all sort of conversations leading up to this point. But this was just sort of where they had firmly come down and said, no, this is what it would need to be for us to be involved. And so it was sort of like the final offering that we were walking away from.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you guys feel? What was your private conversation like at this point?

Claire Mazur:
I think we felt really triumphant in a way. It was honestly one of the best feelings we'd had about the business up to that point because it wasn't just that we had done what we knew was the right thing and was frankly kind of the hard thing, but we were able to do it because we had some success in the business. And that empowerment was really thrilling for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that story?

Claire Mazur:
There are several, but I think the one for me is to listen to your gut. And to know that just because something is something you thought you wanted, if it doesn't feel right it's probably not right.

Erica Cerulo:
It demonstrated to us that with money there come trade offs. We thought this was the answer to our questions and the answer to our problems and we realized that actually this would introduce new and different problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. It is complicated. And people think that something, that's kind of a metaphor for bigger statement that people do think that money is going to be the answer to so many things in life. And it's really not. It sometimes just leads to different challenges.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of challenges, let's give everyone solutions. Let's talk about everyday money tips.

Erica Cerulo:
Well, basically my money solution is that feel strongly about having multiple different accounts that I'm automatically putting a percentage of each paycheck into. So I know that one account is for savings, and I don't touch it. And a percentage of my income just gets dropped there. Another account is for day to day necessities like rent and groceries and those things that are sort of fixed costs and that I can budget toward. And the third is sort of a slush fund and that's where dinners out and shoes or whatever else come from. And I think it's nice for me to know that, that particular account is just sort of a play fund. It is for me to do with what I do. And so I don't set a firm budget around dining out or entertainment or any of those things, but I know that I have this fixed amount of money to play with for all of those things combined.

Bobbi Rebell:
So broader categories. And Claire, sticking to the theme of bank accounts, you also have an everyday money tip.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. So when it came time for my husband and I to combine finances we used something that I know I learned from somebody else, and I think it might have been from Suze Orman, but we basically, no matter how much either of us is making, and obviously that number changes and has changed over the years, we both take the same percentage of our paycheck and contribute it to a shared amount. And then whatever's remaining we each have in our individual accounts. And we both have really different spending habits and that has made our lives so much easier when it comes to dealing with shared expenses and not shared expenses. So I never worry about if he's going to judge me for buying clothes or expensive tickets somewhere or whatever or a fancy gift for a friend of mine whose not his friend, he doesn't have to worry about it, he knows it's coming from my private account.

Claire Mazur:
And when it comes to our shared account it's so much easier to have these conversations about how and what we're spending on because we know that these are shared expenses and we're making those decisions together. And I never have to worry about if he's spending his money in a way that I approve of or don't approve of. And I think that has eliminated so much potential tension from our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it's about communicating when you need to and also giving yourselves permission not to communicate on some things because you don't need to and that can be a relief as well. You guys communicate pretty well as work wives so much so that you've written a book. And this is becoming a whole buzz word in the community these days. I don't think we realize how many big companies have been led by these female power house teams. Tell us a little bit more.

Claire Mazur:
Erica and I had been business partners for nine years now and friends for 17 years?

Erica Cerulo:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Claire Mazur:
And had always known that we were very proud of our partnership and had always taken that really seriously. In fact, when we were fundraising we would often hear from investors, they would say, I think I'm gonna pass, it's not right for me, but I gotta tell you, I'm really impressed by your partnership. And I remember that really sticking with us and being like, oh, I think what we have here is unique. And it is unique, but what we realized in looking around was that there are a ton of other women doing this. And there are a ton of women who are really benefiting from this sort of basic tenants of female friendship like emotional intimacy and vulnerability and transparency in a business environment. So what we did for the book is we interviewed 14 other duos and trios of women about what their partnerships look like and what the friendships underneath those partnerships look like.

Claire Mazur:
And what we came with was this really strong belief in the power of female friendship to drive successful businesses and this understanding that when you value female friendship in the workplace you start to see other characteristics contributing to corporate culture that weren't there before. So these ideas of vulnerability in the workplace become a much bigger facet, and that can really change corporate culture ultimately.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think it's important to understand a lot of these relationships did not start on day one. Some did, but most did not start on day one with, let's just meet as strangers and start a business. There's usually a history and a bond before that. And a lot of work that goes into preparing to go into business together. I mean, one of the tips that you give that I think makes so much sense is to do something like take a trip together and see how you react when something doesn't go as planned. Because these are complicated relationships. 'Cause they're real friendships but they're real businesses.

Erica Cerulo:
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's a piece of advice that Haley [Barna 00:13:54] who is one of the founders of BirchBox and is now a venture capitalist gave for potential business partners or potential work wives who don't have that previous experience of working together, who maybe were friends first and haven't been in an office together and aren't 100% sure of how the other interacts in super stressful situations in a work environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm gonna give you the last word Claire.

Claire Mazur:
We are so excited about the book and we hope that it spreads the idea of friendship in the workplace, not just for women but for men too. We think it's really important to think about the way that personal and the professional mesh with each other in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's wrap it up with you can just tell us where we can out more about you guys, your book Work Wife, your business Of a Kind, your podcast A Few Things, your newsletter Ten Things, and everything else. I feel like you guys have a lot more in your back pocket that we're gonna be hearing from you soon.

Erica Cerulo:
You can find it on our website ofakind.com where you can also buy the book Work Wife or you can buy it any place books are sold. You can find us on Instagram, @ofakind, and the book, @workwifehq and yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica Cerulo, Claire Mazur, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much Bobbi, have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about work besties. Financial Grownup tip number one, Erica and Claire's book is focused on female friendship and business partnership and has a lot of specifics that are unique to women, combining business and friendship that both women and men can learn a lot from. But I also wanna add that while the relationships are absolutely different there can also be a lot of value in work husbands or work wife relationships of opposite sexes. And just to confirm, we are talking platonic here. That can also be really supportive at work. Add to that what I would call your work squad which can mean a group of work friends that can be supportive and be true friends, business partners, and industry allies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, read all that paperwork. It's boring but you have to do it. Erica and Claire did it. They thought they had the deal they really wanted. But then, when they took the time, and thankfully they did, to read all the terms, not just how much money they were getting, read past the headline my friends, they made an unexpected decision. Make sure you pay attention and consider all the information, not just the ones with the dollar signs in front of them. And this goes of course for any binding contract.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a work wife? A work bestie? Have you ever turned down something that you thought you wanted and really fought for? I wanna talk about, I wanna hear about your experiences. Follow me and DM me on all the socials, Instagram, bobbirebell1, Twitter, bobbirebell, or drop us an email at hello@financialgrownup.com, and tell me what you thought about this episode. And tell me about your experiences. And please, if you're not already subscribed, do so, we have some incredible guests lined up for spring, and I can't wait to share them with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely pick up Work Wife, it will not disappoint, and check out Of a Kind. So much cool stuff there. Big thanks to Erica and Claire for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Health insurance is expensive but fitness coach and author Liz Josefsberg learned there are ways to lower your cost, and to make sure you are getting what you need at the same time. Plus her every day money tip to go to every restaurant you love, order what you want, and still reach your health goals. 

In Liz's money story you will learn:

• The things she learned about buying her own health insurance when she left Weight Watchers after being there for 11 years

• Why she says that buying your own health insurance it's not as hard or scary as it seems

• Why she was grateful to live a healthy lifestyle when looking at health insurance for herself

• The reason she was able to get a lower health insurance rate because she was so healthy

• How being healthy helped her to save more money than people her same age due to her lifestyle

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

• How changing your health is easier than people make it to be

• How making small shifts can make the biggest impact on your health

In Liz's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How you can figure out a weight loss program that will work for your lifestyle

• The tip she suggests to those that eat out more often than most due to meetings with clients

In My Take you will learn:

• Let’s talk about working out. I love a $35 boutique fitness class as much as the next person (or maybe you don’t) but that is expensive and for a lot of us. Instead see if they offer a streaming option, which may be a fraction of the cost.

• Find the technology that works for you- and you may already have it

Episode Links:

Liz's book Target 100

Cosmo piece- 14 Fitness Apps that Make exercise suck less

Bustle piece- 6 apps that can help you drink more water

Check out Liz's website -

www.lizjosefsberg.com

Follow Liz!

• Instagram - @LizJosefsberg

• Pinterest - @LizJosefsberg

• Twitter - @LizJosefsberg

• Facebook - @LizJosefsbergWeightLoss

• LinkedIn - @LizJosefsberg

Health insurance is expensive but fitness coach and author Liz Josefsberg learned there are ways to lower your cost, and to make sure you are getting what you need at the same time. Plus her every day money tip to go to every restaurant you love, order what you want, and still reach your health goals. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how to invest in you! #InvestInYou #Fitness Coach #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Liz Josefsberg:
I was able to get a lower health insurance bill because I was so healthy. Just being a healthy person saves you so much money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my financial grownup friends, we are talking health and wellness here on the Financial Grownup podcast, because you gotta have those if you want to be wealthy in the end. Very excited to share this interview with this woman that I have come to adore. Her name is Liz Josefsberg, she is a health, wellness and weight loss expert. She has worked with so many big names, everyone, including Jessica Simpson, Jennifer Hudson, who is on The Voice, love her. Katie Couric, personal idol of mine, I think she is amazing, and Charles Barkley. All of whom she talks about in her latest book, Target 100. And by the way, the love is mutual, they all endorse her as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone, and to our new listeners, thank you for checking us out. We keep the shows on the shorter side, but they are designed to stack together to fit whatever amount of time you have available. Make your own playlist. With that, let's get some great advice from Liz, who after leaving her corporate job at Weight Watchers, started her own business, and like millions of people had to go shopping for health insurance on her own for the very first time. Here is Liz Josefsberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Liz Josefsberg, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Liz Josefsberg:
Great to be here, thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
For those of our listeners who aren't already fans of yours, you are a very well known weight loss expert. You are the author of Target 100, the world's simplest weight loss program in six easy steps, foreword by non other than Jennifer Hudson, and as a lot of our listeners know, I always love to talk about the connection between health and wealth. So I'm so happy to have you.

Liz Josefsberg:
I'm so glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And before we get into your money story, I do want to talk just a little bit about the book. Right here on the front page it is a who's who of people that are famous for getting in shape, and you were their coach. People like Jessica Simpson, Charles Barkley, Katie Couric, Dr. Oz, Rocco DiSpirito, the famous chef. Pretty cool stuff.

Liz Josefsberg:
Yeah. I've had a great, great career and I'm very lucky to work with amazing, amazing people, and I love all those guys, but I would say standing behind those famous names are thousands of people, thousands of everyday moms, dads, working people, and even myself, having lost 65 pounds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You lost that weight and then you went on to work at Weight Watchers where you were really a brand ambassador for them and working with all these celebrities, but then it came time for you to go out on your own, and that was a big life transition, and you had to make some big financial grownup choices of your own. One of which, and this is a big one, is for the first time in your life you had to buy your own health insurance.

Liz Josefsberg:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So that is your money story. So tell us, what happened? You leave Weight Watchers, and suddenly you're starting your own company, what do you do? Where do you begin, and what was that like?

Liz Josefsberg:
I have to say, that was one of the scariest parts. You work for a big corporation, and I was there for 11 years, I played all these roles, and the corporation takes care of everything for you. It's like they're leading you through it, there aren't that many choices, and then I was very intentional about wanting to start my own company and wanting to get out on my own, but that was one of the things that held me back for some time actually. So I'm here to say that once you do go out into the world and buy your own health insurance, it's not as scary as it seems, so don't let it hold you back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us what actually happened. So you realized you had to do this, where do you even begin, for people that have never had to do this, and what was it like?

Liz Josefsberg:
Yeah. So, I was lucky because the marketplace was open that year. It was the first time it had ever opened, so things weren't going smoothly, I will give you that. It was crashing all the time, if you remember. So I started there and I started just researching a bunch of different plans, and looking at different levels of what did I actually need? Because my husband is an actor, he has a union, and he has life insurance and health insurance through there, and I just was, it's just for me, not for my kids. Just for me as a solo person, I don't have a big corporation.

Liz Josefsberg:
So I started to think about what did I actually need, and I think this was one of those moments where I was so grateful that I did live a healthy lifestyle and I was a healthy person, because I felt like I looked through things like what a bronze level was, and what a silver level, and what a gold level was, and what those comparisons were between different companies, and what I would be getting, and what my deductibles would be. And I was just grateful that I was able to get a lower health insurance bill because I was so healthy.

Liz Josefsberg:
I would say as a part of what I do, I'm always encouraging people to think about where and how just being a healthy person saves you so much money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And just to ask this, I feel a little silly that maybe this is obvious, but when you say you got a lower rate because you were healthier, do you go in and get an exam and get told, "Oh, you're at low risk for all of these things, so we'll give you a better rate," or are you just self diagnosing and saying, "Well, I'm going to go on the bronze plan, not the silver plan, because I feel more comfortable with that because I think the odds of me having something more serious are low."

Liz Josefsberg:
Do you know what? I did two things hand in hand. I did go to my general practitioner and have a check up to just reinstate and recheck my blood sugar levels, things like that. I was pretty confident that I was a healthy person, but I wanted to make sure first. I also looked back and did a little bit of a self audit about how often am I going to the doctor? I knew I wanted to be covered for anything catastrophic, but honestly I get sick, if even, I'm knocking on some wood right now, but if even once a year, and usually some little cold.

Liz Josefsberg:
That was my 'aha' moment. I go for my general checkups, I get my mammograms, I want those things to be covered, but I don't have a lot of need because I'm really taking great care of myself, and I would say that some of that money that I save on health insurance, I definitely spend on healthcare for myself. I spend it on supplements that I believe in, I spend it on gym memberships, and athletic clothing, and all the things that keep me healthy, but it's much less than I would be spending.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the idea that you did this health audit of looking back at the actual healthcare services and products that you were actually using, because a lot of us don't necessarily pay deliberate attention to that the way we do with our finances. So we have all these software programs that we use to analyze where our money is going, but you were analyzing where your healthcare spending was going, and broadening that, not just to the actual medical bills, but also to things that improved your health, and really taking a tactical approach when making this ... How much you pay for health insurance can be a huge part of your financial budget.

Liz Josefsberg:
Yes. I'm probably spending about a third as much of a lot of the people that I've heard in my age range are spending, and that is because I feel so confident that with my lifestyle, and the lifestyle that I've created even in my book, which it's not really just about your weight, it's about the hours of sleep that I get, it's about the stress relief that I believe in, it's about my hydration levels, it's about my exercise and my movements. So not just getting to the gym, but how much I walk, how many steps I get in a day, and then about my nutrition as well.

Liz Josefsberg:
So I feel very confident having built a life of healthy habits, that this would be the right amount of coverage for me, and I think thinking about those things of, "Okay, how could I lower my health insurance bills? I could really investigate the habits in my life that are making me get sick more often, that are making me less strong and stable, so that I am falling and breaking things." All of those things that are going to cost you so much more in the long run than taking care of yourself in a gentle way. And I'm not talking crazy change your life kind of ways, but the simplest things like staying hydrated keep my immune system running at its optimum levels. 75% of America is critically, critically dehydrated.

Liz Josefsberg:
So I'm always talking about simple shifts that are going to pay major, major dividends.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners here then, what's the take away?

Liz Josefsberg:
I really encourage people to make the small shifts that give the biggest impact. So I keep coming back to hydration because it's such a great example. If you are critically dehydrated, all of your systems aren't running well. So learning and triggering the habit of drinking water is a perfect example of how you can change your health outcomes and change your life with a simple shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of which, that brings us to our everyday money tip, and this has to do with a client of yours.

Liz Josefsberg:
Yeah. I'm all about people living and having a weight loss program that actually fits in their life. So this particular client lives in New York, he has to dine out a lot, most days he's eating out, and he didn't want to give that piece up because he can't really. So we looked at his life, and he was talking about wanting to go out for Chinese food, and I said, "What you're ordering isn't bad at all, it's the amount that you're ordering. So instead I want you to sit down, I want you to order what you like, I want you to ask them for a to go box, put half of it in and have that for lunch the next day." So my everyday money tip is, you can get two meals out of one. You can split that price right down the middle and save a ton of money, and lose weight at the same time, by just splitting those portions. Always do it upfront, because if you leave it on the plate you might not be able to stop yourself from eating it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That last part is key. Alright, let's talk about your business and Target 100. There's so many things that I like about this, one of which is that you talk about sample eating plans. That's one of the first major chapters of it, but then you say, but this is my eating plan and that doesn't mean it's right for you.

Liz Josefsberg:
That's where I saw long term success living. Wasn't if you blindly follow somebody else's meal plan, because maybe you don't like kale and quinoa, it doesn't mean you can't lose weight.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you talk about how certain celebrities, like Jennifer Hudson, had trouble with that. They were on these different plans but they couldn't stick to it.

Liz Josefsberg:
Jennifer was terrified. She loves chicken wings, that's one of her favorite foods, and sushi too, and she swore off of those. I was like, "You don't need to swear off of those." I said, "But hey, when you get out and you want to have the chicken wings, you've got to start with a salad to fill yourself up, then get a half order instead." So it's not about not having, it's about the management of.

Bobbi Rebell:
And portion control. Then the final thing I want to touch on is technology, that you're really pro technology.

Liz Josefsberg:
I am pro technology. I think about this as there are of course Fitbits, but there are also these amazing technologies. These scales that wirelessly upload to your phone and they give you all these outputs of not just your weight, but your body fat. There are connected water bottles that tell you how much water you've had during the day, and ping you to remind you to drink the water. There are incredible breath analysis technologies now that can tell us if we're actually in ketosis, if you wanted to be on a keto diet, just by analyzing particles in your breath. So there are incredible moves forward that are happening in technology, or just take Peloton.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Liz Josefsberg:
You've got this amazing technology that's creating community and inspiring people, and gamifying exercise in a way that we know those are the things that are going to move the needle on obesity. It's really about accountability, support, and gamification. Technology is going to single handedly be the thing that turns the tide on this thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it all. Where can people get in touch with you and learn more about all of this?

Liz Josefsberg:
You can look me up on all platforms, Instagram, Facebook, Linkedin, you name it, as Liz Josefsberg, and it's J-O-S-E-F-S-B-E-R-G, and or you can look up the book at Target 100 program on all the platforms as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, one thing I love about the book is, I feel like I read this but now I'm going to go back and do the worksheets and really go through it. This is a library book, it's not a book you read and then give away. You keep it and make it part of your plan to be healthier. So thank you, Liz.

Liz Josefsberg:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends, here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one, let's talk about working out and let's be honest here. I love a great $35 boutique fitness class as much as the next person, maybe you don't, but a lot of us do, if we're being honest. But if we're also being honest about the cost, it is really expensive and to some degree not really the best use of our money all the time. Maybe a treat, maybe you get it on a discount site. I use Gilt a lot sometimes, G-I-L-T, but for a lot of us it's really not necessarily the best option all the time, and also it's winter, and for some of us that live in colder climates, we're just not motivating to leave the house all that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
The solution; pick your favorite kind of boutique class and see if they offer a streaming option, or if there's a similar class that does. And remember, obviously you might like your local place, but if you're going online and you're looking for streaming options, the sky's the limit. You are not limited to local, you could go everywhere, and if you're looking for other ideas, you don't know where to start, Class Pass now offers free workouts. Look for Class Pass Go, it is an app, and at least for now, it's free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; find the technology that works for you, and you may already have it by the way. It could be on your phone and you just haven't noticed it. For example, if you have an iPhone there's a health app built right in, and you know what? It tracks a lot of things. What I use it for is my steps, and it's great because I will forget about it for the longest time, and then I'll check it, and because I live in New York city and we walk a lot here, I usually get a nice surprise in terms of how many steps I have actually been doing throughout my week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one that a lot of people love is My Fitness Pal, which I just downloaded and I'm going to be trying it out, if anyone there has feedback or suggestions for me about My Fitness Pal. Other ones to check out include Health Out, this one is interesting because it puts together restaurants in your area that have healthy menu items, so it actually gives you those options, and then done, which is about habit building.

Bobbi Rebell:
Liz also in the interview, as you remember, stressed hydration. Another thing that I working on, and probably a lot of you, because we always should be drinking more water. A couple apps to try out for that include Water Time, Mobile Creatures, we'll leave links to all of these in the show notes, which rewards you with adorable creatures like cute cats. The other one Drink Water Reminder, great names, they really get to the point. Drink Water Reminder, which will give you a nudge to drink water at set times throughout the day, and by the way the show notes are always at BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and find them there, you could also look at the bottom of the notes, if you're listening in an app, and there'll be a link right there. The other format is BobbiRebell.com/podcast/ and then the guest's name.

Bobbi Rebell:
And of course, I need to know what your favorite fitness, health, and hydration apps are. So please send them to me, you can DM @BobbiRebell1 at Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, or you could email us hello@financialgrownup.com, and we will then share them with the rest of the listeners through the show notes. Maybe I'll share them on social media as well. Big thanks to Liz Josefsberg for her healthy tips to help us all live our richest lives, and for helping us all get closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have. 

“You can’t wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can’t wait around for your boss to give you that raise for you to be happy.”

Melissa’s Money Story:

I tried to shop this around. It's a vampire series, during the time ... Well, it was the tail end of Twilight, so no publisher wanted another vampire book. So I got a lot of no’s, in which case I was faced with this decision of, what is my dream worth? I want to get this done, so what am I willing to invest in myself? So I created a budget of how much I would spend on, pay a designer to create a cover, to publish it myself, to put it out into the world.

I self-published it, and yes, it turned out, in more ways than one, to be a great, great experience, something that I consider a success in my life. Something that I could check off my bucket list. And I still get the occasional check in the mail, even though I don't do all that much work publicizing it. I did make my money back and then some, and it was basically a great gift that I could give to myself, just in terms of learning that I could build a brand, make money for myself outside of a salary, and take those tools and make more money in another career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the journey. Did you write it first, and then you went to different publishers? How did it actually work? And how did the economics change between, if you had gotten a deal with a traditional publisher versus your own situation where you were self-publishing? What did that actually involve from a business and an economic standpoint, and a marketing standpoint?

Melissa Leong:
I think people don't realize that when you go and you create any product, you are entering into a business. You're your own business. You're your own publisher. I learned so much about being my own marketing department, my own publishing, and quality control, and PR, and that all requires resources, time and money. So yeah, I didn't have a publisher to push my books, but because I was doing everything myself, I had full control, and I had a huge percentage of the cut of sales. A traditional publisher might give you 7% off of the book selling price, but say you publish through Amazon, you get 70%, depending on what you price the book at. That was really rewarding.

Bobbi Rebell:
I realize we were talking about PR for the book. We didn't say what the book title was, and where people can get it. We should say that, right?

Melissa Leong:
Yes. It's still on Amazon. The first book is called What Kills Me, and the second is I Am Forever. It's a teen adventure novel. It's based on a vampire story.

“Mute the people on social media who make you feel bad about yourself”

Melissa’s Money Lesson:

The same lesson that I have when it comes to happiness. I think we sit around waiting for external factors to fulfill us, and that's not how life will serve you best. You can't wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can't wait around for your boss to give you that raise, for you to be happy. Happiness is for you to fulfill for yourself. It's the same thing with any of your goals or your dreams. They all seem lofty, and they all seem huge in the beginning, but you have to take that first step. You turn on the heat, and if you turn off the heat before the water boils, the water will never boil. You just have to keep going. You break everything down into some sort of small, bite-sized goal, like writing a 60,000-word book in six months. That was my goal, and I thought, "That is ridiculous. How am I going to do that?"

Well, I broke it down to the smallest thing. Every single day, five days a week, I have to write 500 words. There you go. If, by the end of the day, I haven't written 500 words of something for this novel, then I didn't feel good. I also had a partner who I could check in with, and say, "I met my goal today. Yay. Somebody keep me accountable." It was something very tangible to do in a very short period of time.

“I was faced with this decision. What is my dream worth? I want to get this done and so what am I willing to invest in myself”

Melissa’s Money Tip:

There is a study that shows that if you live beside somebody who's won the lottery, you are more apt to go bankrupt, because you're also spending on tangible, visible assets, even though you have not won any money. It is something that we beat ourselves up for, but it's something that you can control. You can put a tracker on your phone to see how much time you spend on social media. You can mute the people on social media who make you feel kind of jealous, who make you feel bad about yourself, who don't share your values. You can fill your feed with things that are uplifting, things that inspire you.

If you find yourself comparing yourself to other people, then choose what specific attributes that they have, that you admire. Don't admire somebody because they're rich. Admire them because they have some sort of tenacity, or some sort of perseverance quality that you think that you would like more of in your own life.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Inventory your stuff. We're not saying to do a Kon-Mari, reference to Marie Kondo, who is known for Tidying Up. Just know what you own, so you can make a decision about whether you want to own more. At least know what you have, so you don't make buying mistakes. So, for example, you don't buy something that you already have five of, you just didn't know where they were. And let's be honest, we've all done that. Make sure you know where your stuff is, so it's there for you when you need it.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Again from Melissa's book, Happy Go Money: Delete your credit card info from the browser on your computer, your phone, iPad, whatever you use to shop, so you have to manually enter it each time you want to buy something. What I love about this advice is that it's not about buying something, whether you need it or just want it. That's okay. It is about creating a speed bump so you have to slow down and think about the decision, and make it a thoughtful one, and it's okay to buy things.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Melissa's book Happy Go Money

• Melissa’s website - www.MelissaLeong.com

Follow Melissa!

• Instagram - @LisLeong

• LinkedIn - @MelissaWLeong

• Twitter - @LisLeong

• Facebook - @Melissa.W.Leong

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the things you can do to create your happiness. #Happiness #Author

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money books of the month, why she loves them and how to know if they are right for you. This month’s picks include The Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money. Thirteen Ways to Right Your Financial Wrongs by CBS News Business Analyst and Certified Financial Planner Jill Schlesinger,  Startup Money Made Easy: The Inc. Guide to Every Financial Question About Starting, Running and Grownup Your Business by Inc magazine Editor at Large Maria Aspan and Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny Pinching Way by Our Next Life blogger and podcaster Tanja Hester.

Here are 3 money books that I truly enjoyed

• The Dumb Things Smart People Do with their Money. Thirteen Ways to Right Your Financial Wrongs by CBS News Business Analyst and Certified Financial Planner Jill Schlesinger

  • Jill's Financial Grownup episode

• Startup Money Made Easy: The Inc. Guide to Every Financial Question About Starting, Running and Grownup Your Business by Inc Magazine Editor at Large Maria Aspan

  • Maria's Financial Grownup episode

• Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny Pinching Way by blogger and podcaster Tanja Hester

  • Tanja's Financial Grownup episode

Be sure to listen to the episode to learn if the book is for you!

Episode Links:

• Jill's website - Jill on Money

• Maria's website - Maria Aspan

• Tanja's website - Our Next Life

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Elisa Camahort Page and her BlogHer co-founders went two years without paying themselves a salary. She had the financial foundation to stick with the venture for that long thanks to conservative money habits she established well before deciding to be an entrepreneur. 

In Elisa's money story you will learn:

• How seeing her friends stuck in their jobs because of their mortgages helped Elisa to make a better decision on where to live

• The reason she decided to quit her job

• How budgeting and saving her money helped to put her into a position to pursue her dreams

• How she was able to not take a salary for herself for two years after starting her business

• The importance of really thinking about what she wanted to spend her money on

• Why she felt like it was important to spend money on experiences rather than things
  

In Elisa’s money lesson you will learn:

• Money doesn't buy happiness but it does buy you freedom

In Elisa's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she feels like having just one mentor isn't enough

• The importance that one of her mentors had on her by letting her sit in on calls and meetings that her position didn't require her to be there for

In My Take you will learn:

• Ask your boss if you can be in the room of meetings you may not be officially invited to join

• Prepare for the long term even if you don’t have any big picture goals

Check out Elisa's website -

www.elisacp.com

Follow Elisa!

• Instagram @ElisaCP

• LinkedIn - @ElisaCamahortPage

• Twitter - @ElisaC

• Facebook - @ElisaC

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Elisa Camahort:
We didn't take a salary for two years, so I had put myself in a position to really pursue my dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Women's Blogging Network BlogHer co-founder, Elisa Camahort Page, talking about the early days of that company. How many of us could go two full years without any cash coming in? Wow. Hello, Financial Grownup friends. Welcome to our newest listeners, and thank you for checking out the podcast. We keep shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but feel free to stack a few episodes together if you have a little more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to our inspiring guest. Elisa Camahort Page made a career switch to be part of the Silicon Valley boom, and was rising through the ranks. She saw a lot of big spenders there, but as you will hear, she escaped many of the pitfalls of her dot com peers. And it is only because of that, because of living below her means, that she was able to create her own company after the bust, global women's media empire BlogHer, which won countless accolades, including being named among the most powerful women entrepreneurs by Fortune, the most powerful people in new media by Forbes, and the most influential women in technology by Fast Company. By the way, she also won the Vanguard Award by Mom 2.0 summit, Iris Award. And for anyone that's gonna be down in Austin for Mom 2.0 this year in April, please come say hello. I will be down there as a speaker, and I'm very much looking forward to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Elisa. She later sold the company to SheKnows Media, and recently embarked on a career as a consultant, speaker, and author. Her book is Roadmap for Revolutionaries. Here is Elisa Camahort Page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Elisa Camahort Page. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people know you as the founder of BlogHer, which set all kinds of high standards for women's organizations and blogging. You were named as a social media legend, by the way, by the C Suite Network, top women in media by Folio. I could go on and on. And also, by the way, BlogHer, you guys were named most powerful women entrepreneurs by Fortune. You sold that to SheKnows Media, and stayed with the company for a little bit, but now you are a consultant and a speaker. You are also the author of the book Roadmap for Revolutionaries. So, welcome.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you started your journey back in the late '90s in Silicon Valley. At that time, you made a critical decision that we're gonna talk about as your money story. Then we're gonna come back, by the way, and talk more about you. But I want to hear your money story, because it has to do with a conservative financial move that you made, at a time when the dot com boom was really becoming a lifestyle, and something that was really consuming everyone around you, but you took a different tactic. Tell us your money story, Elisa.

Elisa Camahort:
Well, as I started going up the ladder and making more and more money, I did not spend like I was going up the ladder and making more and more money. I decided to really devote myself to my career at that point, because I had this goal. I wanted to buy a house or a condo. I just really focused on that. And sure enough I was able, by myself, to buy a condo. And what happened is, when the boom ended, and we started with the bust, and it started spiraling down ... And it was kind of a long, slow, uncomfortable spiral down ... I had a lot of friends who were really married to their mortgage, and they were really stuck. Because when times are really great, and banks were willing to give you big loans, I stayed really conservative, and I got a place that was appropriate for me, someone living alone, and ultimately with a partner. I didn't go hog wild.

Elisa Camahort:
A lot of my friends, when the bust happened, they were married to jobs that they felt miserable in, because they had this big mortgage. Whereas I, I had sort of the opposite experience. Which is in 2003, the nadir of the bust, and my company was going through like its eighth layoff in two years, and I thought, "It's gotta be me. Like, I have got to be laid off at this point. There is hardly anyone left."

Elisa Camahort:
Friday came and went, and layoffs happened, and I didn't get laid off. I sat there, and I spent all weekend being depressed, thinking, "Oh my God. I have to go back. It's gonna be such a graveyard. It's gonna be so much more work, and no more people to do it. I have to go back. That's so sad." And then I had this little voice in my head that said, "Why? Why do you have to go back?" Because I had been smart. I had bought my condo, and then I had gone right back into conserving and hoarding my money. I had about two years' worth of take home pay in the bank at that point, and so I walked in on Monday and said, "How do I get on the list?"

Elisa Camahort:
The other thing that allowed me to do, besides having my walk away money, was a year later, when I met my co-founders of BlogHer, and we decided to go after that, we didn't take a salary for two years. So, I had put myself in a position to really pursue my dreams. One dream was the condo. One dream was the company. But I really believe that you should think about your spending and saving now, like you have that big idea you want to pursue, even if you don't know what it is. Just think about when it hits you, being ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really about keeping your overhead low, so you have that financial flexibility.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah. Absolutely. I had a lot of options, because I maybe wasn't as ... I wasn't as high spending, and wasn't going out and doing some of the things that looked kind of fun, and they would have been fun. I just found other ways, and really focused on wanting to have that cushion for myself, because who knows what I would want to do next?

Bobbi Rebell:
So, give me an example. Do you remember any times when other people were doing things that you really couldn't do because you wanted to keep that overhead low, and have this giant cushion? I mean, two years, when you're so young, is a lot of financial runway there.

Elisa Camahort:
I think a lot of it was about, what do I spend my money on? And I presaged the millennials, because I tended to spend my money on getting together with friends, experiences. You know, I would go out to eat more than I would buy things. I wasn't necessarily out there getting that upgraded bag, or lots of clothes. And certainly I still shop. I have always liked shopping. Oh, Ann Taylor Loft. That's the perfect store for me, you know? That's just not where my interests lied, to want to spend a lot of money.

Elisa Camahort:
The other thing is, I do travel more now than I used to. I think it's good. Travel is obviously super expanding for your mind and your heart and your soul, and so I do think travel is important. That has been sort of a slow increase, in investing in those experiences. But until that point, most of it was experiences that were pretty moderately priced and pretty close to home, and pretty involving friends, as well. Which I think was another reason that made me not miss the stuff I wasn't acquiring, because what I was doing was sort of enriching my circle and my network and my friendships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were busy. So, what is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Elisa Camahort:
Well, the takeaway is that money doesn't buy happiness, up to a certain point. I mean, yes. Once you have your basic needs met, you're happier. But, money doesn't buy happiness. What it buys you is freedom, and it buys you the freedom to do a lot more than you might be thinking about. And I don't know that when I was saving money to buy a house, I was thinking about saving money to start a company. Luckily, that came in handy for me. So, money doesn't buy you happiness, but it does buy you freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's move to your everyday money tip, which has to do with the value of mentoring, and how that translates into financial success in the long run. I mean, it really goes to what you were saying before. You talk about playing the long game, even if you don't know what the long game is yet. That's kind of what you were just getting at, is have the money even before you figure out what you need it for. Because you didn't envision BlogHer when you were buying a house that was a lot less than what you could afford.

Elisa Camahort:
I learned, when I first got into tech, that first of all, I had multiple mentors. I didn't loo for one person to be the be-all end-all mentor. I had one guy who mentored me around technology issues. I had one guy who mentored me around business issues. And the one key thing he did for me, that really was a lesson, was that he let me sit in on calls and meetings that my position didn't require me to be there. He just sort of identified me as his protégé, and let me sit in. And all I did in most of those meetings and calls was listen, but I heard how he established relationships. I heard how he negotiated. I heard how those two things worked together, to get him what he wanted.

Elisa Camahort:
You know, a lot of people think about ... When they think about negotiation, they think about what they're gonna say, how they're gonna make their case, and it's very kind of me-focused. I really prefer to do a lot more listening, because it's only when you understand what core thing the person you're negotiating with, the core thing they really want, that's the way that you can find your way to having a mutually beneficial outcome to the negotiation. And I think that works on both sides of the hiring process, both sides of the negotiating and advancement process, and both sides of negotiating partnerships, and even M&A deals. So, I tend to be ... I'm kind of talkative in real life, like outside of a negotiation. But I listen more than I talk, so that I can figure out how to get to that core thing my other person across the table really wants. And then, giving me what I want is so much easier.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The information helps you get to the point where you know what they need to hear to make it happen, whatever your goal is.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah. If you're more busy talking than listening in any negotiation, you're actually not gonna come out, I don't think, with the better end of the deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said, Elisa. All right. Let's talk about you, because you have now left your baby, BlogHer, which you had sold, and you are making a big impact in the world with your speaking and your book. Tell us more about what's going on with you.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah, absolutely. I stayed after the acquisition for almost three years, but then it really was time to go. Part of it was because I wanted to work on some other projects, including my book, Roadmap for Revolutionaries, which is all about how we can all be better every day activists, and how we can be more effective, because we're all busy. I used to hate the term work-life balance, because I felt like no one ever asked men about it. But now I like the term work-life-activism balance, because I like to think about how can you integrate, into an already really busy life, how you want to make a difference in the world. The things you want to activate around, the things you're most passionate about. Finding a space for that in your life, I think makes us so much happier, because i think happiness is really tied to how well we live to our own value system, and how much we're able to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. All right. Where can everyone find out more about you, and where they can see you? Because you're very busy on the speaker circuit.

Elisa Camahort:
Yes. Well, my website is ElisaCP.com, and there is a tab there for all my speaking appearances. There's a tab there about my book, and about articles I write and the writing I'm doing. And then, I'm on the interwebs. Twitter @ElisaC, and Instagram ElisaCP, and most of my posts on Facebook are public. Just search my name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff. Here we go. Financial grownup tip number one: Ask your boss if you can be in the room of meetings you may not officially be invited to join. It's okay to just say, "I want to learn from you. I want to observe." Think of it like auditing a class in school. Even if you don't have a specific business purpose there, ask if you can just be in the room, as I said. And then, just do that. Listen. Pay attention. Be a little invisible. I know there's a lot of talk about sitting at the table, speaking up, participating, and that's all good when you have a role at the meeting. But if you're there to observe, consider that a privilege, and make sure it doesn't take away from the work that you need to get done otherwise.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: Prepare for the long term, even if you don't have any big picture goals yet. Elisa wasn't saving to start a business. She did not see that in her future. But when opportunity presented itself, she had the money to go two years without income to make it happen, and it paid off.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my friends, what is the best lesson you have learned from a mentor? I would love to hear from you. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can email at hello@FinancialGrownup.com. And if you find value in this show, please take the time to think of a friend that might also enjoy it, and help us grow by encouraging them to check it out and subscribe. Big thanks to Elisa Camahort Page for her words of wisdom, a great story, and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

For all the talk about the dangers of credit cards, Inc’s Maria Aspan sees the benefits of them, especially when compared to debit cards. She shares a couple of personal stories of how credit cards protected her in ways debit cards could not. 

In Maria's money story you will learn:

• The importance of looking at your receipts especially when using a debit card

• Why credit cards are better than debit cards when it comes to fraud

• The reason that fraudulent credit card charges are easier to dispute and have the charge reversed

• Debit cards don't help you build credit

In Maria’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to pay for most things with a credit card

• The importance of getting alerts for certain transactions

• How using a credit card can not only be a great way to track spending, but it can also make doing taxes easier

In Maria's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How having a vacation/wedding fund can save you money in the long run

In My Take you will learn:

• Choose the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to your 401 (k)

• If you set up a separate account to save for events or vacations as Maria does, be sure to automate the deposits

Episode Links:

Maria's book Startup Money Made Easy

Money In The Morning podcast

Check out Maria's website -

www.mariaaspan.com

Follow Maria!

• Instagram - @mhaspan

• LinkedIn - @MariaAspan

• Twitter - @MariaAspan

• Facebook - @Maria.Aspan

For all the talk about the dangers of credit cards, Inc’s Maria Aspan sees the benefits of them, especially when compared to debit cards. She shares a couple of personal stories of how credit cards protected her in ways debit cards could not. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn 3 reasons why you will want to start using credit cards instead of debit cards. #MoneyTips #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Maria Aspan:
I was tired. Didn't really look at the receipt as I was paying and used my debit card to pay, and a few days later, I checked my bank account, and I noticed that the taxi cab had overcharged me. It was like a $15 fare, and there was something like $50 taken out of my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. We have all been there. We're tired. We just want to get home, and we don't want to look at the bill all that closely. Sometimes, we don't even look at the bill at all, and then we sign, and then of course, we don't even keep the receipt, but for our guest, that had consequences one time, and it was a big learning lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Special thank you to our new listeners. Thanks for checking out the show. I would love to hear how you heard about us, so please DM me, and let me know on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, on Twitter at BobbiRebell, or you can email at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to our guest. Maria Aspan is an award winning journalist and the editor at large of Inc magazine. Her new book is called Startup Money Made Easy, Answers to all your Questions about Starting, Running and Growing your business. Great material for business owners, but also a lot of eye-opening info for all of us just to apply to how we access money for anything that we need in our lives. Maria also shared a great money story that may surprise you with how it played out. Here is Maria Aspan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Maria Aspan, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Maria Aspan:
Thank you Bobbi. It's so much fun to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book. You are editor at large at Inc, and you have a new book, Startup Money Made Easy. Inc answers all your financial questions about starting, running and growing your business, and what I love about this is that it focuses on something a lot of people ignore in books for entrepreneurs. They focus on the building of the actual service or product, but a lot of the times it comes down to money.

Maria Aspan:
Yeah, I mean money is just such a part of every single decision you make throughout your business from startup, to growing, to selling it and retiring. So, we really tried to take just sort of an accessible and fun approach to something that can seem really daunting and somewhat like financial and high tech. We just tried to make it very easy, and if possible, fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's definitely exciting and fun when you're successful at raising money, but we're going to talk ... We're going to pivot a little bit and do your money story, which has to do with spending money and how you facilitate that. A lot of people are very wary of credit cards these days and for good reason. There are a lot of dangers of credit cards, but you actually had an experience earlier in your life where you learned the merits of credit cards. Tell us your funny story Maria.

Maria Aspan:
That's right. I am a financial reporter who is very pro credit card. To your point, debit cards, they allow you to control your spending and to budget more, but as I also discovered when I was a 20-something who had actually just started reporting on credit cards and debit cards, you don't have a lot of protections with debit cards when somebody uses your cards for fraud, and this was a kind of everyday story. I was coming home from a work event. I had taken a cab. It was the end of the night. I was tired. Didn't really look at the receipt as I was paying, and I used my debit card to pay. And a few days later, I checked my bank account, and I noticed that the taxi cab had overcharged me. It was like a $15 fair, and there was something like $50 taken out of my bank account from my debit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
They were hoping you wouldn't notice that, of course.

Maria Aspan:
Again, financial reporter. They picked the wrong person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think they probably picked many people, but they finally picked the wrong person and got caught.

Maria Aspan:
But what was really infuriating was that I complained to my bank. My bank was like, "Well, do you have the receipt? Because otherwise, we can't ... It's your word versus theirs, and we can't give you the money back." Didn't have the receipt. Lost that $50. I realized then that I had to start applying some of the lessons that I'd been learning about the credit card industry, that even though it's really easy to get in over your head with credit cards, they're also basically an interest free 30-day loan if you pay them off at the end of the month, and any money that gets taken out is the bank's money, not yours until you pay that bill.

Maria Aspan:
So, I actually had ... Recently, I had signed up for like a free trial month for a subscription service, one of those fashion subscription services, and I canceled the trial at the end of the month, and they didn't process it. A few days later on my credit card this time, a bill for $175 showed up. It was like, "Wait. No. I didn't. I did not spend $175 on that."

Maria Aspan:
But this time, I was able to complain to my credit card company and actually to the subscription service. They reversed the charge, and it was credited back to my account before I had to pay any bills, so I never had to put out that money even though they overcharged me. The bank had it covered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because credit cards work very differently from debit cards in these kinds of situations.

Maria Aspan:
Yes, and they basically are a loan, and the credit card company is the one who's fronting you the cash, and also the credit card company has more obligations to cover you in the case of fraud. Whereas with debit cards and bank accounts, there are many fewer protections for consumers in the case of fraud.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think that's something that's got lost in all the backlash about credit cards is that while debit cards do offer a lot of benefits, especially for young people that are first learning to manage their money, there are limitations. There's also a big danger to debit cards.

Maria Aspan:
There is, and there's also the fact that using a debit card doesn't necessarily help you build credit, which can be important when you're working up to getting a mortgage or car loan or in the case of a lot of the entrepreneurs that we talked to, a business loan. If you're using a credit card and paying it off every month and creating a record and a credit history, that can really help you down the road in getting a cheaper loan when you need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what is the lesson from this money story for our listeners?

Maria Aspan:
Apply for a credit card and use one responsibly. I will say that I try to put pretty much all of my spending on my credit cards, but I also set up a lot of alerts. I check my balances. I have alerts set up so that I get a text message if there is an online transaction or a foreign transaction or a transaction above a certain amount. So, I'm just alerted if I'm in New York, but suddenly my credit card is buying $500 worth of material in Russia, it's a sign that something is wrong.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's a big sign. Absolutely.

Maria Aspan:
And of course, I pay it off every single month. Then I would say that's probably the biggest lesson about using credit cards is don't use them to get into more debt than you can afford to repay regularly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely, and also they're a way to track your spending and know what is going on. You can quickly scan and know what you spent versus if you're using cash, then you have to actually write down what you're doing. The credit card takes care of that for you. So, I think that's a good benefit as well.

Maria Aspan:
Actually, since we're coming up on tax time, I should say that it really makes doing my taxes easier because at the end of every year I download my credit card's annual report, and I just have a list of all the different expenses that I made, which is something that paying in cash doesn't give you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they also categorize them, which is nice, which is something entrepreneurs can really use. Let's talk about your everyday money tip cause it's something that's for happy occasions but can be a challenge for many people.

Maria Aspan:
Yes, so my tip has to do with my friends getting married and all of the fun events that happen around other people's weddings, but also all of the expenses that are incurred. A few years ago my circle of friends started getting married. I started being asked to be in weddings, which of course involves bridesmaid dresses-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you always wear again.

Maria Aspan:
Which you always wear again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Always, always.

Maria Aspan:
Always so flattering and made out of such great material and totally worth the $300 or so.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lot actually. I haven't been a bridesmaid in a while, but 300 bucks is a lot of cash for an often one-time wear.

Maria Aspan:
It really is. And even if they're only one-time wear, they're made out of this cheap, gross fabric that's just not super comfortable even for that one night.

Bobbi Rebell:
[inaudible 00:09:11] your friendship.

Maria Aspan:
Definitely, and not to mention all of the wedding showers and the bachelorettes and the gifts, and these are all wonderful things that I'm happy to help my friends celebrate, but to your point, testing the friendship. They get to be very expensive, and there was one year when I had three or four such weddings sort of staring me down at the end of the summer, and I realized that this was going to be several thousand dollars that I didn't want to have to pay for all at once, so I set up a separate online savings account and just put $50 a week into it towards weddings. I think I started this in January. By the time September came along, that didn't necessarily cover all of the expenses, but it helped cover a lot of them, and I felt absolutely no guilt cleaning out that savings account to cover all of the bills from these different weddings.

Bobbi Rebell:
It cushioned the blow.

Maria Aspan:
It really did, and now, I've kept that savings account up. I've been a bridesmaid less, but now I've renamed it vacation weddings. So, I use it for like plane tickets or fancy meals out every once in a while and it's a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And guilt-free. Let's talk about your book, Startup Money Made Easy, which as I said at the beginning, I love because it focuses on the fact that a lot of entrepreneurs really spend the majority of their time dealing with getting cash to fund the business. Even though they may romanticize the idea that they're going to be actively running the day to day business, that often takes a back seat to the need for cash. And what I found interesting that you talk about here is the fact that many entrepreneurs are limited in their options and often end up getting money through means that are really not the best.

Maria Aspan:
Right. One of the things that we find when we talk to entrepreneurs at Inc is that even though venture capital gets all of the headlines and [inaudible 00:11:05] backed startups in Silicon Valley are the most prominent ones. Most of the entrepreneurs we talk to use their savings or ask friends and family members or use credit cards or tap their retirement accounts to get their businesses off the ground,

Bobbi Rebell:
Which we think of as almost, "Oh, you shouldn't do that." The truth is that is the reality and that many people do that. And we hear ... For every story that we hear of people that cashed out their 401k and took out a second mortgage on their home and then they made it big, there are a lot of people that do that and then suffer the consequences.

Maria Aspan:
We absolutely don't recommend cashing out your 401K, but it's very much often what happens. And the other thing is just we talked to many more entrepreneurs that just use regular loans versus [inaudible 00:11:49]. So whether it's credit cards to go back to the beginning of this, or applying a bank loan, which can be ... It can take so much time and be so tedious with paperwork, but it's like the best interest rate you're going to get anywhere versus a credit card or an online loan. Or asking friends and family for money is another way that a lot of people gather the money together to get their business off the ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, is that your advice for entrepreneurs? Where is the best way to fund your big idea?

Maria Aspan:
I would say my first piece of advice would be to figure out how much money you need, and it may not be very much. We've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs who start their businesses for less than $5,000. But figure out roughly how much money you need. Maybe write a business plan. It's not fun, but it'll help you get your plans in order, and then figure out how you can gather that money together. You might want to work on your business part time until you figure out cash flow and the business is making enough money to support you because that's the other thing that we find when we talked to a lot of the CEO's of the most successful private companies in America. We pull the Inc 5,000 CEOs every year. Only 28% of them said they started paying themselves a salary immediately upon starting their business. 31% waited for a year before they started paying themselves. So, if you can't afford to go a year or more without paying yourself a salary from your business, maybe don't make it a full time endeavor until you've got it all figured out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, lots of great advice and great advice in the book, Startup Money Made Easy. Tell us where people can find out more about you, the book and all that good stuff.

Maria Aspan:
Thanks so much Bobbi. You can find the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Audible. You can go to StartupMoneyMadeEasy.com to find a whole list of sellers, and you can find me on Twitter or at my website, MariaAspan.com, and my Twitter handle is the same.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, friends, let's do this. Financial Grownup Tip Number One. Choose the lesser of two evils. I agree with Maria, and absolutely I do not recommend cashing out a 401k, but if you are going to go for that cash in that retirement account, and I'm reminding you that is for your retirement, but if you're going forward anyway, look into borrowing from the 401k instead of just taking the money out. You can usually borrow up to $10,000 or 50% of the vested balance up to $50,000. At least with a loan you are paying interest to yourself. Just be aware that if you leave the company, you have to repay it, and the time you are paying back the loan, by the way, even if you're still at the company, many companies don't allow you to also contribute to that 401k. So then, that is a lost opportunity cost because those years when you're focused on paying back the loan, the loan money's not earning interest and growing for your retirement, and you're also not putting new money into the 401k for your retirement. So, try not to do it at all, but if you're going to it, the loan, depending on the terms that your company allows in line with the IRS rules, probably better than just taking the money out. But try to not do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two. If you set up a separate account to save for events like weddings or for vacations as Maria does, be sure to automate the deposits so it actually keeps happening.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, before we wrap up, I want to invite all of you to check out my new podcast with my friend, Joe [inaudible 00:15:19] of Stacking Benjamins. It is called Money in the Morning. We take two recent headlines, talk about what we can learn from them to improve our own personal finance situation, to improve our own lives, and to learn from it about investing, about saving, and all that good stuff. And we keep it light by taping it live on Facebook, complete with audience participation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, I hope some of you will join us. You can see a taping. Get the information by going to facebook.com/Istackbenjamins to check it out. We will leave a link in the show notes, and yes, it is taped live. So, what we do is we do not edit it at all. Whatever happens during the live taping, all my mistakes, are all out there. So, if you listen to the audio on whatever channel you listen to podcasts on, whatever app you listen to podcasts on, please be forgiving, laugh with us, learn from us, and most of all, just join us for the fun. We really would love to have you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, everyone can learn something from Maria Aspan's book, Startup Money Made Easy. So, please check out the book. Big thanks to Maria Aspan for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

 In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

• How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

• The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

• How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

• How she motivates herself to save money

• Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

• Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she spends money before she has it

• How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results
  

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

• Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

• Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

• Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

• Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC
  
  

Follow Barbara!

• Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

• Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

• Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how to commit to your goals. #Goals #GoalSetting

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

TRANSCRIPTION

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

3 dumb things smart people do with their money

• How to avoid taking advice from the wrong people- and how to find the right trusted sources.

• How to protect yourself from identity theft, and avoid doing the dumb things that make you vulnerable.

• How to both avoid spending money on the wrong insurance, and how to know what insurance you do need. Plus how to adjust your insurance as you go through different life stages as a financial grownup.

Episode Links:

• Jill’s book Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money

• Website - Jill on Money

• Jill on Money podcast

Follow Jill!

• Twitter - @JillonMoney

• Facebook - @JillonMoney

• Instagram - @JillonMoney

• LinkedIn - @JillonMoney

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. 

In Tanja's money story you will learn:

• The flip side of the side hustle

• When to call it quits

• Why she decides to leave her side hustle as a yoga instructor

In Tanja’s money lesson you will learn:

• Being aware of your options

• If you're side hustle is going to hold you back

• Realizing that a side hustle may not be forever and that's okay

In Tanja's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The surprising places you can schedule your dental and eye exams to save you money

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it’s important to be clear about your purpose if you have a side hustle

• The importance of knowing if your healthcare is valid overseas
  

Episode Links:

• Tanja's book Work Optional

• The Fairer Cents podcast

Check out Tanja's website -

• Our Next Life

Follow Tanja!

• Instagram - @our_nextlife

• Pinterest - @our_nextlife

• Twitter - @our_nextlife

• Facebook - @ournextlife

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Tanja Hester explains why she had to call it quits on the side hustle she loved in order to create new opportunities at her primary job. Plus her big money tip on how to save big on medical expenses while traveling the world. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can retire early without having to pinch pennies doing so. #Author #RetireEarly #FIRE

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Tanja Hester:
Within that year of quitting, I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you guys have side hustles, multiple income streams? It's kind of becoming the normal thing to do these days, but they are also, if we're being honest, second jobs, and sometimes it just becomes too much. Welcome everyone. The show is growing and we have a lot of new listeners. Thank you for checking us out. I would love to learn how you heard about the show, so special ask here. Let me know how you heard of the podcast. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, or on Twitter at BobbiRebell, and you can always email at hello@financialgrownup.com and feel free to give other feedback as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to our guest. She is Tanja Hester. First of all, she has one of my favorite podcasts, The Fairer Cents, with Kara Perez. She also is an award winning blogger. Her blog is called Our Next Life, and we were able to get her on the show because of her new book. It is called Work Optional, and based on the story she shared, it also could be called "And Side Hustles Optional," because it seems like everyone expects you to have a side hustle these days and sometimes you just don't or you just can't anymore. And learning when it is okay to say no is definitely a very Financial Grownup thing. Here is Tanja Hester. Hey, Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Hey Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am happy to be talking to you about your new book: Work Optional, Retire Early. A lot of people already know you though because you're an overachiever, Tanja. You have, first of all, your blog. Beyond the fact that you're a part of the FIRE movement and you are financially independent, you are retired. This is some busy retirement by the way, just saying. Your blog, Our Next Life, was Blog of the Year for the Plutus Awards, which is huge. I am not a Plutus Awards winner. I was nominated though. This podcast was nominated, I should say. You're also the cohost of really one of, if not my very favorite podcast, Fairer Cents, so love all of them. So happy to have you.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you. Wow, that was the best intro ever, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is all sincere and all true. I really loved your book. I actually have asked you to talk about a money story from your book that really hit home with me and I think is really relevant to so many listeners, and something we're going to be talking more about, and that is the flip side to the side hustle and when to know when to call it quits basically, because in the book you talk about leaving your side hustle as a yoga instructor, and I really wanted to hear more. So tell us your money story, Tanya.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I started my career in DC and then LA, and at the time I was making not no money, but close to no money, especially considering how expensive those places are to live. And so I started teaching yoga when I think I was 23 or so. I loved yoga. I needed a side hustle. It was relatively low startup cost. I really do recommend actually teaching fitness for folks who want a side hustle, because you get paid to work out, and the overhead, you don't have to invest a whole lot to get certified, and it also makes you really comfortable on your feet and makes you a better public speaker, which are all my side effects. I did that for a long time. I also then started teaching spinning to supplement that, so I was doing both yoga and spinning. Yeah. About eight or nine years in I started realizing, for my main job, which was as a political consultant, I was having to travel a lot and I was starting to sub out more classes, or I was occasionally having to say no to things at my main job because of my class schedule, or I felt like I was subbing out too much stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you had to have a commitment to that people. You were on the schedule.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Yeah, and I had students who were my regulars who expected me to be there. It just got to a point where my main career and my side hustle were really in direct conflict with each other and I realized that continuing to teach yoga on the side was actually holding me back in my career, and was preventing me from being able to be a full team player, being able to say yes to things, so I made the really hard choice to give it up, which was hard because I love teaching yoga. I loved that community that I built, but within that year of quitting I got promoted. I was able to take on a lot more interesting assignments at work. I was able to start traveling more, which I did really enjoy. Ultimately for me, it's crazy, but yeah. As much as the side hustle served me earlier, it was giving it up that really let me get ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you prepare to lose that income stream? Because that is something a lot of people worry about.

Tanja Hester:
The truth is, I want to be clear that I'm in a financial unit, so my husband Mark was also working really hard through all of this and he had earned more. I think that this, I'm not remembering exactly, but I think he may have gotten a little bit of a promotion that year that I quit, so that kind of smoothed it out a little bit. But the truth is, by that point, we were both earning significantly above what we were spending, and so it was just a question of maybe taking a tiny temporary hit in what we were saving, but we were living so far below our means that it wasn't a question of constraining any spending because of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners who are getting such a very strong message, many of us, about having those multiple income streams, having those side hustles? There's downsides to it.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. There potentially are, and I think it's just being aware and intentional about what all of your options are. So if you're in a low level job right now and you want to stick that out, I think it's just paying attention to, is there a point at which having a side hustle is going to be too big a distraction? Is there a point at which it's going to start to hold you back? You know, I really am very pro side hustle, but I think it's just noticing that this may not be forever, or there might be stages in my life when I need to focus on one thing. So that's really I think what I'd advise, is just be smart about it. Just keep your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
And side hustles don't have to be forever.

Tanja Hester:
Absolutely not. They can be a great chapter of your life. I think of the decade when I taught yoga as a really special thing, but that doesn't mean I still have to be teaching it now.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's move on to your everyday money tip. This has to do with health care, actually.

Tanja Hester:
It's a better time to be early retired with healthcare than it used to be. Before the Affordable Care Act, people who didn't have a traditional job, and that could be freelancers and side hustlers and gig economy folks too, but we didn't necessarily have good ways to get it. Now with the Affordable Care Act, you can buy insurance, but for most of us that is not going to include dental or vision, and so a great way to save some money if you especially love international travel anyway, is when you're traveling, to schedule a dental cleaning, or schedule an eye exam, or do some of the predictable medical stuff that you know you can schedule when you're abroad.

Tanja Hester:
I think as Americans we tend to think of the rest of the world as not having high quality care, but that's just really not true. You can do a lot of the stuff for pennies on the dollar compared to what we pay here when you're already taking a trip, and if you're older and you need something like a hip replacement, it's worth pricing out what it would cost in a place like Thailand or India versus at home. Often, even if you have insurance, the total cost out of pocket in another country will be less than what you'd pay after copays and everything here.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's been your experience? Have you done it?

Tanja Hester:
You know what? I have not yet. We just haven't had the opportunity because we're only a year into early retirement, but for the book I interviewed a bunch of people who had and really heard nothing but positive experiences.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll have to look into that. Alright. I want to talk more about your book Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny Pinching Way, because it really draws from your experience. You mentioned FIRE, which stands for "financial independence, retire early." Is that correct?

Tanja Hester:
That is correct.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, your blog also won best FIRE blog I think the previous year, so you're an all star on all levels, but there's a lot of things that I like about the book, and one of them was, as a parent myself, that you also address the challenges that parents face when they have this goal of FIRE.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. I did not want the book to be, "Here is the story of how Mark and I did this." I think that's pretty boring. We also recognize that a lot of our circumstances are not applicable to everyone or easy to replicate. We got really lucky in some key ways. We didn't have huge student debt. As you just said, we don't have kids, so I wanted to make this a book that was accessible to just about anybody, so I included a lot of case studies with parents. In fact, most of the people featured in the book have children, because I just felt that was so important to cover. Some people are couples who are earning under six figures combined, some single folks, so it's really trying to cover the bases.

Tanja Hester:
But yeah, I'm a huge believer that you can build a plan that works for you and you can, even if full retirement isn't an option, you can at least create a life where work is more optional, whether that's being able to cut back or take a year off or just work in a job that's fun for you as a part-time thing. I really do believe that it's accessible and so that's really what I set out to do with the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that really stood out to me in the book is a data point that you bring up, and that is that most people, we talk about the idea of choosing to retire early, but the truth is, data shows that most people don't actually even retire when they plan, so we think this is a choice, but really a lot of us just have to be ready whether we like it or not.

Tanja Hester:
Oh, it's so true. I feel really strongly about this because I get frustrated when there are new stories about early retirement that sort of go like, "Hey, look at these young weirdos." Because I think the discussion about early retirement should be inclusive of everyone, because as you said, that's just reality. We know that most Americans intend to work to 66 or 67, but end up having to retire at 62 or 63 on average. Although for many workers it's a lot younger, because companies are generally pretty cruel to those over 50. They lay people off without really much regard for how it's going to affect them, and so a ton of us, two-thirds are not retiring when we plan, and we also know that more than half of Americans are wholly reliant on Social Security as their only retirement income, which the very highest social security checks only give people about $30,000 a year.

Tanja Hester:
So we're talking about a real crisis and a real problem that just being able to put yourself in a position where you can retire securely is already enormous, and if you can put yourself in a position to be able to retire even sooner, all the better, because we just don't know what the future holds for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. All right. Everyone needs to check out Work Optional. Tanja, before I let you go, please tell us more about where people can follow you, your blogs, your podcasts, your books, all of you. There's so much happening in your retirement, Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
I know, I know and I know there are those who will say I'm not retired, but this is all stuff that I'm choosing to do that feels like play, and I feel lucky every day. My main site is ournextlife.com. From there you can find everything else. The podcast is The Fairer Cents, C-E-N-T-S on iTunes and all the podcast places. On social, I'm @Our_NextLife, mostly Twitter and Instagram, but from Our Next Life, you can kind of find all the different tentacles I have out there, get info on the book. The book is in all the normal book places, so yeah. It's a fun, fun thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much Tanja.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, be clear about its purpose. For Tanja, it no longer was a needed income source. It was fun. She liked it, but it was holding her back. If the point of your side hustle is to build a business so you could leave your job and things are on track, of course you should stick with it, but as we move up in our primary jobs, side hustles can be a distraction, and you could be missing opportunities even just by not being as focused on the main job as you could be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Tanja talked about medical procedures overseas that are planned. Even if you don't plan to have something done, it's a good idea to note if your health care insurance is valid overseas, especially in the case of an emergency. In many cases, insurance will cover an emergency but will only reimburse you once you get home, so you have to pay out of pocket while there, keep the receipts and file afterwards. This actually happened to my family. We were vacationing in Jamaica and my son cut his head after falling getting out of the shower. We had to go to an emergency clinic and pay 100% out of pocket. The insurance company would not promise whether or not they would pay, and in the end they did pay as an out of network expense, but there you have it. By the way, Harry was completely fine. If you are traveling internationally, know what your health care coverage is and make a plan just in case you have to see a doctor while you are traveling.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to all of you, my Financial Grownup friends, for joining us. If you like the podcast, please help us grow, please, by sharing with your friends, and take a moment to leave a review as well. We read every one and they really mean the world to us, and they help us get discovered. Big thanks to Work Optional author Tanja Hester for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. 

In Jocelyn's money story you will learn:

• How her business, The Scholarship System, came about from her own experience

• How Dave Ramsey had influenced her decision to seek out scholarships

• How she won enough scholarships to pay for not only college but also living expenses

• What a scholarship scam is and how to know what to look for to avoid them

In Jocelyn’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why she feels like applying to more and more scholarships actually becomes easier

• How you can still continue to get scholarships even when you are out of high school and in college

In Jocelyn's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Not all scholarship opportunities are online and some are still on paper. Jocelyn shares where you can find these scholarships

In My Take you will learn:

• Other places you can find scholarships besides just educational institutions

• One benefit to look for in your job search that can help with student debt

Episode Links:

Jocelyn's book The Scholarship System

Jocelyn’s free webinar

Melanie Lockert's Financial Grownup Episode

Check out Jocelyn's website -

https://thescholarshipsystem.com/

Follow Jocelyn!

• LinkedIn - @TheScholarshipSystem

• Twitter - @ScholarshipSYS

• Facebook - @TheScholarshipSystem

Scholarships are anything but free money. They actually take a lot of work. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson shares the story of how she graduated not just debt free, but also with cash to spare, all by knowing where to focus her efforts, and how to avoid the scholarship scams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how to find and recognize good scholarships and how to apply for them. #MoneyTips #Scholarships

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jocelyn Pearson:
Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair, so these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. College, totally affordable, said no one ever. It's crazy expensive and every dollar that you can save is a really good thing. That much debt student debt on the other end. So glad I was able to get Jocelyn Paonita Pearson on the program. She is the master at finding money to pay for school and save precious time while doing it with a fantastic program called, The Scholarship System. Welcome, to everyone. If you're a new, we're so glad you discovered the show. We interview high achievers and get their money stories, and their lessons and even some every day money tips, all in about 15 minutes. If you have a little more time though, feel free to stack a few episodes together to make it work for you. With that, here is Jocelyn Paonita Pearson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jocelyn Paonita Pearson. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to learn more about The Scholarship System because who doesn't need more money for education for themselves, for their children, for the future and so on. Tell us, just briefly, what it is before we get to your money story.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Sure, so The Scholarship System is a six step process that I accidentally stumbled upon to pay for college without taking out student loans. Now, it started off as a simple book, but then we learned that our families wanted true live interaction and get some videos, worksheets, templates, you name it, and so now it is a full on course, blog and tons of resources for families to learn how to pay for college with scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're going to circle back to that, but first, I want to get to your money story, which is actually very appropriate because that's actually how you came up with this. It all started with you and your own scholarship needs. Do tell.

Jocelyn Pearson:
I would love to. So, it really was an accident. When I was in high school, my parents sat us down. I'm one of five kids, and they said, "We love you guys, but there is no way we could pay for college." Because at this rate it's half a million to a million dollars for this many kids, right? So, I was a pretty bullheaded teenager who just ... I did not want to take out student loan debt. Actually, I had watched Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University in one of my high school classes and made me terrified of any kind of debt, nevermind just student debt. So, I started off on a path to get scholarships for college and I just, for some reason, assumed my university would give me a ton of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
They did not though. They give you very little, I got to say. $2,000, right?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. And what was tuition? What did that represent versus tuition?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Tuition was I think around 10 grand a year, so I needed way more just for tuition, but the thing was my freshman year in college tuition was just half of my expenses. So, in the end, it cost me over 20 grand a year. So, yeah, they gave me, what? 10%?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that tuition is not everything. There's so much more that comes out of pocket. Not to mention the fact that ... sometimes your earnings are more limited than they might have been otherwise because you're studying, so you can't work as many hours as you might be able to if you weren't in school. There's that opportunity cost as well.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. And that's the beautiful thing about what I figured out is that I could use this money that I ended up getting without stealing too much from the end to pay for these other expenses as well, not just tuition. So, that was beautiful, but it was not a beautiful process at the beginning. It was so painful. I think a lot of your listeners could probably relate. I think most people either have the intentions of applying for scholarships or have given it a shot, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
And this was first happening in high school, I should say. You're in [crosstalk 00:04:24] figuring this out.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What number are you among the five children? Did you have older siblings that had done this already?

Jocelyn Pearson:
No, so I was the guinea pig.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. So, I started looking for scholarships and spent my junior year, this was before I knew that I was not getting much money, but I spent my junior years nonchalantly applying. But what I was doing was I was applying to these, what I later found out, were pretty much scams. So, I wasted an entire year applying to scholarships that weren't legitimate.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by scams? What would they be? They would say there was a scholarship and then they would just get your data? What was going on?

Jocelyn Pearson:
That's pretty much what it was. Scams is a pretty harsh term, but I think it's fair. So, these are the sweepstakes scholarships, the ones that are based on drawings. If it's based on luck, it is not worth your time, period.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are they legit? Like, if you win, it is at least legit. If you want to enter a lottery, it's not ... They're not taking from you. Your worst case scenario is you've wasted your time. I mean what is the danger of these scams? Because I don't know about this.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's a great question. So, my inbox that I used for that, now has over 20,000 unread emails, and I'm not exaggerating, literally over 20,000. I'm sure it's way more now. Because what they did was they were taking my information and selling it to affiliate marketers. So, your inbox will pretty much be destroyed and whatever information you've given could possibly be given out. So, it's not that they're necessarily really hurting you, but in this day and age, our data is really valuable. So, it was a way for them to target teenagers especially.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who don't know better. Who are just looking to pay for their college education.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Exactly. Which is the easiest, most vulnerable set of people to go after because everything is so scary and overwhelming with this process in itself. So, I got sucked into that. I did not know until finally the end of my junior year, I found a small little local scholarship that was 500 bucks, and I applied and wrote this essay. It was terrible. I had so many different drafts that I had to go back and forth and fix, but in the end, I won 500 bucks. Some people might be thinking, $500, you needed pretty much six figures to get a free ride. Why would you waste your time on $500? But that $500 scholarship meant so much more for me because what it did was it validated scholarships in general. It showed me, "Hey Jocelyn, there is money out there. There are scholarships out there. You just need to know what you're looking for, and apply to the right ones."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was different about that $500 one versus what you call the scams?

Jocelyn Pearson:
You asked the best questions. This is one of the golden nuggets that we really harp on in our course, and it's to know if a scholarship is legitimate or not. There's really a spectrum. So I mentioned the ones that are based on luck, you throw your name in a drawing, and you're entered to win $10,000. Those are not worth your time. Even though people are like, "Well, someone has to win them." I have been doing this for now nearly a decade, and I've never met anyone to win one, so it's not worth your time. But on the other end of the spectrum, we have scholarships that asked for criteria that we compete, that shows our qualifications for money.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Those are the ones that are worth our time. For example, I mentioned the one that I finally won $500 with required essays. That was something where, if I improve my essay, if I write a high quality essay, that increases my chances of winning. It's something within my control beyond just luck. So, in that way, it has a higher chance of being legitimate. The more it's based on my true credentials, and my competitiveness versus luck.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you eventually raised I think $126,000 to fund your education and the ancillary costs of that education, correct?

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. So, in the end I got to six figures, and I was, not only able to graduate completely debt free, but I actually got an overage check every school year, every semester to pay for any external expenses that I had that were beyond my bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, What is the lesson for our listeners here that people don't know that's not obvious? Because there's a lot to this. It's not just write an essay. There's a strategy here.

Jocelyn Pearson:
When I got my six figures in scholarships, it was not all in my senior year. It was gradual. Every single year I was able to apply for more and more money and it got easier and easier, I promise. That might sound like a lot of work, but once you get some winning ups, you just reuse them. So, that's actually a golden nugget as well. But every single year can get more money. A lot of people think, oh, once I finished high school, I'm out of luck. There aren't any more opportunities for me to change my status when it comes to loans or scholarships. That's not true.

Jocelyn Pearson:
And the second one that I want to share is to find these scholarships, and we will share a free webinar, where I go in more depth and have more time about this, but we teach how to use Google the right way to find scholarships. I think one of the biggest challenges with the scholarship process is it's so overwhelming for students, where they go to Google, they look up scholarships, and they find a bunch of junk that doesn't even pertain to them. One of the smallest low hanging fruit tactics that we can teach that someone can implement in two seconds is to go to Google and Google their community or their zip code or their city name plus the word "community foundation." And oftentimes, community foundations have half a million, a million plus dollars to give out in scholarships.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right there, that one search can open the doors to, not just dozens of scholarships, but dozens have scholarships specifically for students in their area, which means it's less competitive.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip, which is very retro. It has to do with paper. Give it up Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah. This is so funny. Back in the day, if I will, when I was doing this, paper applications were more common, but believe it or not, they still are around. I know that's hard to believe, but there are organizations like the Elks Club or the Rotary Club, where some of them just aren't tech savvy just yet. And so, what they're doing is they're still sending letters to our guidance counselors saying, "Hey, we have this money, can you please share it with students?" A lot of schools are now doing great where they put that inside a student portal or put it on some sort of page for students, but there are still some that just stash that away inside a filing cabinet. I highly recommend students, go into the Guidance Office at their high school and also at their colleges. Again, remember this is not over in high school.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of scholarships don't even start or not available to freshmen. Sometimes they start at older grades.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Right. And there's a reason for that. One of the reasons is because once you get to college, you have such a higher chance of graduating, so people want to make sure they're giving the money to the highest chance of someone that would do something with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, I never knew that.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, that's [crosstalk 00:11:23].

Bobbi Rebell:
I never thought of it that way. That is so interesting. But a lot of this that you talk about in the scholarship system is that it's about effort, but it's also about knowing which scholarships are less competitive because some scholarships don't have that many people applying. We're talking about these paper applications where you have to physically go into the office IRL and asked for them. That gives you a big leg up.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely, Bobbi. That's the one thing is ... a lot of students, they go after the Dr Pepper Scholarship or the Coca Cola scholarship, where it's a free ride in one shot, but the problem is everyone is going after that one. And even I, I applied for the KFC one, I didn't get it, but that was a really competitive one. And then when I realized, you know what? That $500 one, $1,000 one, $1,200 one, they still add up pretty quickly and yet, I'm competing against ... actually, just a quick story. Once, ISM had an application and they had two awards that they were going to give out. And this was a local based one. In the end, they only received four scholarship applications, so they doubled the award and gave all four of us an award. So, it was 100% success rate because it was one of the lucky ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Yeah, isn't it incredible?

Bobbi Rebell:
You have to just try. Okay, before we wrap up, I want to hear what is going on with the scholarship system. You have a webinar, first of all, so tell us about that and how else people can learn more about you and all your social channels.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Absolutely. I appreciate that. So, we have a free webinar that we hold. It's around an hour to an hour and 15 minutes. I go in-depth about some very large myths, which we did burst a few here, but I go in more depth on those in the Webinar, as well as a very specific places you can look, including more detail on how to use our Google method. So, if you're interested in joining our webinar and registering, it's completely free. You can go to, we created a unique link just for Bobbi's audience. So, you go to the scholarshipsystem.com/grownup. This is for parents and students. Actually, if you can attend together, that's even better.

Jocelyn Pearson:
So, that's the best place to get ... just hit the ground running when it comes to finding these scholarships we're talking about. The low hanging fruit, the ones that have a greater chance of winning and get started. Then, if you want any additional information, I love our Facebook page. We share scholarships on there as well as tons of helpful articles, our own and others. So, you can just go to Facebook and search "The Scholarship System." And then our website, we have a weekly blog that we give and these are massive, actionable in-depth blog posts and you can just go to the scholarshipsystem.com for those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This is all so important. And you're really creating the shortcuts because we're all so busy, so this is kind of a central place for everyone to go. So, thank you, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Pearson:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Here is my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, scholarships are not limited to educational institutions. Many professional conferences have them. In fact, usually the information on how to apply is right on the website, but you can also just write to the people running the conference and find out. For example, one of my favorite events, The Lola Retreat, run by Melanie Lockert, who has been on this podcast, we'll link to her episode, offer scholarships, including one financed by this podcast. Another conference that I attend that offer scholarships is Finncon. It is run by Philip Taylor, Aka PT Money, also has been on this conference, and they offer scholarships for content creators that are looking into the industry or growing their business and aren't really financially able to attend. Totally worth applying to all these kind of conferences and seeing if there are scholarship money available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do graduate with debt, student debt I should say, consider looking for jobs that have programs to help pay down those loans or that will pay for graduate school so you don't take on more debt. It is becoming more common in this tight job market. Thank you, to everyone, for being here with us. Please share with friends and be in touch with your tips on paying for education, both school and professional developments. On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1 and Twitter, @bobbirebell and you can always email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And by the way, I have a new podcast, in addition to this one. Financial Grownup is not going anywhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is with my friend Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins' fame. It is called, Money in the Morning. We talk about headlines and break down what matters to you, and we tape it live on Facebook. We will leave links to where you can join us in the show notes. Big thanks to Jocelyn Paonita Pearson for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Sharon Epperson survived a brain aneurism. But despite being one of the country's top personal finance experts, and having all the right plans in place, some of the experiences with the finances of her medical emergency still caught her off guard.

In Sharon's money story you will learn:

• The plans she put into place early on that helped her when she ended up in the ER from a brain aneurysm

• The importance of having an emergency fund

• The financial set back she experienced once she was out of the hospital

In Sharon’s money lesson you will learn:

• The importance of money saved

• Why it's so important to have an estate plan

• Having adequate medical insurance even when you feel like it's so expensive

• Why she's so grateful to have disability insurance

In Sharon's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Know financially where you stand financially. Check your alerts every day on your phone

In My Take you will learn:

• Do the paperwork in case of a medical emergency, specifically a living will

• If you aren't in a mental state to fully understand what you are signing, wait until a loved one gets there

Episode Links:

• Sharon's book The Big Payoff

• Host of Retire Well

• Sharon’s episode on Farnoosh Torabi’s podcast So Money

• Sharon’s episode on Jean Chatzky’s podcast Her Money

• The article I mention in this episode

• Brain Aneurysm Foundation

Follow Sharon!

• Instagram - @sharoneppersoncnbc

• LinkedIn - @sharoneppersoncnbc

• Twitter - @sharon_epperson

• Facebook - @CNBCSharonEpperson

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Sharon Epperson:
I remember lying on the stretcher at the Rehab Hospital having just been brought in, and handed a clipboard with paperwork. No one who has suffered a brain injury, should be handed a clipboard of paperwork and a pen for anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello financial grownup friends. This episode is an uncomfortable one. I had a really tough time approaching the topic because it's really sensitive. It's really hard to ask the stuff that I ask our guest about. First, a quick welcome note to everyone, our new listeners. Thank you for coming and checking us out. If you enjoy the show, please tell friends. That is the best way for us to grow the podcast, and keep bringing it to you. To today's guest, CNBC's senior personal finance corresponded, Sharon Epperson was really gracious and open in this interview. She has already talked extensively about the brain aneurysm that she suffered a couple of years ago, and about her recovery. But she agreed to venture into an area that is really taboo, and that is asking what do things cost in an emergency? And what can you do to control the cost in an emergency? Because you can't exactly shop around and you may just get the biggest bill of your entire life. So the stakes are really high. Here is Sharon Epperson. Hey, Sharon Epperson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Sharon Epperson:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We met recently at the taping of Secrets of Wealthy Women. I can't believe we didn't know each other before. I don't think we overlapped at all, but I'm a CNBC alum and you are the personal finance correspondent for CNBC.

Sharon Epperson:
I am.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are named 2018, one of the 12 to watch in TV news. You also have a bestselling book, The Big Payoff; Eight steps couples Can take to make the most of their money, and live richly ever after. Congratulations on all of that. And you are also deeply affected by a horrible medical tragedy. You had a brain aneurysm in 2016, and you've been very candid talking about it. I want to encourage everyone, I'm going to leave links to hear the full story because it's important that people hear everything that happened to you. How it happened, how you've dealt with it and everything. But there's one area that for this short show I was actually afraid to ask you to even talk about, and you were so gracious when I sent you this email because it's an important part of what happens after the fact.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you us, in your money story, about the brain aneurysm? How it happened, but then as I said, and this is hard to talk about, the money aspects of it, and what happened on the financial side while your life is ... We don't even know what's going to happen. You're fighting for your life, and after the fact the money is discussed. Tell us your money story. Sharon.

Sharon Epperson:
I one day went to exercise class and then did not come home again for a month. I'm the person that handles the bills, the daily expenses in my family. All of that pretty much came to a full stop when I was in the hospital. The things that saved us are one, we are both, my husband and I, employed by companies that have medical insurance, and comprehensive coverage. And I was under his employer's insurance actually, and had really great medical care, and was not really conscious of how expensive the bills were for what I had done in a 24-hour period. I do know that I saw more than 50 or 60 medical professionals, and I was in three different hospitals. I remember going to the doctor's office. I remember my husband taking me to the ER. I do not remember much after that, other than the ER doc saying I had bleeding in my brain and calling my sister who lives out of town to tell her that.

Sharon Epperson:
And then I was pretty much unconscious. I remember being in [inaudible 00:04:25], before the anesthesiologist put me under. So anything that happened, all of the decisions that had to be made, financial, medical, everything, in the period of time, but pretty much from the time I left the doctor's office till they decided I had to have this type of emergency and surgery and the particulars of that. I had no involvement. So, I wasn't doing what I usually do [crosstalk 00:04:45]. Before I have a procedure or I take my kids somewhere, I call the insurance company. I say, "Is this covered? Do I ... Have I met my family deductible? What do I have to?" So I know ... I'm a budgeter, so I'd know how much I'm going to be spending for the orthodontia, and the and the other things that I've ... medicines and all that, that I have had over the years with my children.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happens in this situation? Because this is by far the biggest medical spence you hopefully, God help us, will ever have in your life.

Sharon Epperson:
Exactly. It played out in real time in real life, in my medical emergency. My sister was the first call that I made. She was on the next train from Washington, D.C. to New York, and she was present before I went into surgery. So, all of those decisions, my husband and my sister conferred together and made for me, for my care. Ultimately the paperwork that I assumed was signed, that I wasn't able to sign that says, you got to pay for this if your insurance doesn't cover it, my husband has signed for that too. So, all of those financial medical decisions were made by them for the first month, I would say, after I had my aneurysm.

Sharon Epperson:
I will say that I was actually the one, when I went from by ambulance from the first hospital to the Rehab Hospital two weeks after my surgery, I remember lying on the stretcher at the Rehab Hospital having just been brought in, and handed a clipboard with paperwork. No one who has suffered a brain injury should be handed a clipboard of paperwork and a pen for anything. I mean, I'm still floored that that happened, and I think I had more faculties than probably a lot of people at that may have. But I went through a period, and I actually still do, where I have someone, I kind of run by most of my financial decisions and things by somebody just for a gut check sometimes. and also just for a double check if I've missed anything in the fine print. And I think he later was consulted and everything worked out insurance wise, thankfully, with that hospital as well. But I definitely signed paperwork on a stretcher. That was not cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, it's not cool. And I have read recently of some hospitals, one in particular that I'm thinking of and I will put the article in the show notes, in California where it is presumed most hospitals are "in network." But this hospital is not and it is a major trauma center, and people get brought to hospitals and then they believe, because most hospitals are "in network" that they will be covered under whatever their insurance plan, but that's not always true. You really at this point, this is life or death. You're not in control of these decisions and the financial decisions that do come afterwards.

Sharon Epperson:
You are asked to be in control of them. The other memory that I have is when I was in the first hospital, the social worker came and asked me what type of facility I wanted to be in next. I didn't at the time, didn't have enough information really to even know exactly what had happened to me, or what the difference between the sub acute and acute facility was. They just both sounded really scary, and I just started crying. Because it just sounded like, I was slowly figuring out that what had happened to me was extremely serious. But in that discussion, I think the ones that she suggested, as I recall, she did mention were covered under my insurance, but it wasn't necessarily ... I don't remember if I asked it or if she just told it to me.

Sharon Epperson:
But again, to your point, you're suggesting places based on medical care, or proximity to my home, but not necessarily based on what's covered or what's covered more fully. And these are questions that need to be asked, but I was by myself when I was approached.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right? And that's a very financially vulnerable position to be in because your life is at stake, and your life is what matters, but yet you are ... Other people very often are making decisions for you or asking you to make decisions that you are not in a position to make at that point, that will have huge financial consequences when you get better. For example, I wonder how it worked with all the various tests that they did, and other specialists that they're bringing in. Did somebody look and say, "Do you want someone in plan?"

Sharon Epperson:
That absolutely happened. I remember having to have a call with the insurance company about a specialist who was in the ER. I don't remember what exactly the test was that I had, and specialist was not in the same network exactly. And I had to appeal, and say that I was unconscious, had no ability to say yes or no to this test. It was a test that had to be done because I was literally at a near death situation. And once I explained it, it was taken care of. But again, you are critically ill, you've slowly recovered and you're not near yourself again, and you're confronted with having to deal with insurance companies who are second guessing what you had no control over. The main focus of my family was making sure I stayed alive, and get the best medical care possible.

Sharon Epperson:
And they were not thinking about the financial situation at that particular time. And certainly were not trying to make sure that every specialist that I saw was in the network. And I'll probably also just assume that if the hospital is in the network that the specialists would be in the network in the same way, and that's not always the case.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what is your advice now in hindsight to our listeners, should they ever be in an emergency situation and face financial decisions, or then not face them until the emergency is over?

Sharon Epperson:
The thing that is so very important is to make sure that you have a plan, an estate plan ideally. And some people say, "I don't have an estate. I have no money. Why do I need to have an estate plan?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of mislabeled the word estate.

Sharon Epperson:
Exactly. You need this to have people in place who can help you with decisions that you're unable to make. And you can do that verbally with family members and just say, "If anything ever happens to me, I want you to be the one." But that's not what's going to hold up necessarily at a hospital or definitely not in a court. So you want to make sure that you have it in writing, and that you have the legal documents necessary for power of attorney, for health care proxy, for financial and for medical decisions to be made. And the other thing I guess I would say is to make sure that you have medical insurance, and when you're an independent contractor, self employed, have your own business. I know it's expensive, it's really difficult to figure out, but it's so very important to make sure that you have adequate comprehensive medical insurance.

Sharon Epperson:
And I'll add one more. There's four things I'll say and that's disability insurance. Again, extremely expensive if you're self employed, but you are protecting your income. You are protecting the greatest financial asset that you likely have, which is your ability to work and make money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what about dealing with the finances in a medical emergency? What's your takeaway there?

Sharon Epperson:
If you can, I would say, "I'm waiting for my ..." whomever that power of attorney or that person you've designated, "to come. Can we have this conversation when my husband, loved one friend, caregiver, someone is there with me?" And I know for many people that might be hard. Also, I had a friend who's really good and really technical, and really organized and is really good at harassing people to make sure that she gets her money, and she helped me with a lot of my bill paying and the discussions I had to have with insurance companies. So, it's hard to do by yourself. It's very, very difficult and I had people, thankfully in my network.

Sharon Epperson:
There are also agencies out there that will help. That help caregivers are that help people in terms of being your advocate for healthcare issues, but it's just hard to know. And Bobbi, you may know better, who can you trust? You do your [palase 00:12:21] and core [Barre 00:12:22] class, and you ran the marathon, and you did this and you eat ... you drink this spinach smoothie. I had a spinach smoothie and an hour later I had a brain aneurism. So, you never ever ... in an exercise class. So, you never ever, ever know what can happen and when it can happen, and so having that conversation, it's not a downer. It's I'm going to be in the strongest possible position for the rest of my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's switch gears to a more uplifting topic, and that is your everyday money tip, which no one has ever said I believe on Financial Grownup and yet it is something we can all do that will really help us on a day to day basis.

Sharon Epperson:
You have to know where you stand financially before you can plan on where you want to go. And so, I set up alerts through my bank, text alerts or email alerts on how much money I have in my account on a daily basis. Whenever I go over spending $250, when I have a bill that's paid that's over $250 from my account. All of these alerts come into my phone, so my money tip is to everyday check in. If it makes you crazy to do it every day, do it every week. But I check in every day, because I get an email on my phone that let's me know how much money I have to spend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great Advice. Before I let you go, I just want to talk briefly about your efforts to raise awareness, and to advocate for more research about brain aneurysms. You established the Sharon Epperson share of research through the Brain Aneurysm Foundation. It provides grants for research on early detection. Tell us a little bit more about that and how people can support that effort.

Sharon Epperson:
I am the fourth generation of my family members to suffer a brain hemorrhage. And so while I don't know for sure if the brain hemorrhages of my great grandfather, grandfather, and my mother's eldest sister was caused by a brain aneurysm, I know it's very likely that that is the reason why I suffered one. And brain aneurysms are more likely to impact women than men, and twice as likely to rupture in African Americans than in whites. And so, as the mother of two children, who I'm not sure yet whether they are going to be completely healthy or may have a brain aneurysm, I want to make sure that the best technology, the best strategies for treatment, and for dealing with this are available to them. And so I'm supporting the Brain Aneurysm Foundation, which is at the forefront of raising money for research for brain aneurysms. And of lobbying in Washington to increased federal funding for this type of research also.

Sharon Epperson:
So, I would urge people to go to beafound.org to learn more about what happened to me, and what research is being done. And also to support the Sharon Epperson share of research so that more research dollars can be given to very, very, very smart researchers and medical professionals who are coming up with cutting edge, innovative treatments and strategies to deal with this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well. Thank you for all of your efforts. And finally just share with us your social channels and where people can learn more about you and follow all of your endeavors.

Sharon Epperson:
You can follow me on Twitter @Sharon_Epperson S-H-A-R-O-N_Epperson, E-P-P-E-R-S-O-N. I'm on Instagram at Sharon Epperson, CNBC. You can also reach out to me on Linkedin or Facebook, on my Facebook page. And I love to connect with viewers, and readers, and listeners and know what your money stories are. I love your show. I love what you're doing because the more that we talk about this, none of this is taboo. We all have something. We all have something that we're dealing with there were going through, or that we have gone through. And by sharing with one another the ways we've coped, things we've done well and things we have not done well, I think it helps everyone. So, I urge people to reach out to me, and I thank you so much for inviting me to be on your show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for joining us, Sharon.

Sharon Epperson:
Take care.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends, Financial Grownup tip number one, do the paperwork in case of a medical emergency, specifically a living will. That is, a written statement saying what you want in terms of medical treatment if you cannot give consent, like Sharon. Financial Grownup tip number two, if you're in a medical emergency and someone is thrusting forums at you, as was the case with Sharon, and you are not in a mental state to fully understand what you are signing, tell them that. Tell them that you need to wait until a loved one gets there. Tell them the reason. That you are not fully able to understand what you are signing. And if you do sign under duress and it comes back to haunt you, consult a lawyer. What happened to Sharon as she says is not okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you as always for joining us. I am blown away by the incredible gift that Sharon has given to all of us, and I want to hear from you what you think, and what kind of experiences you have had with medical bills and emergencies. DM Me on Instagram at Bobbi Rebell1, and on Twitter @BobbyRebell. You can always email me at hello@financialgrownup.com and please do share the podcast with friends. That along with ratings and reviews possibly on Apple iTunes are the best. And by the way, I have a new additional podcast I'd love for you guys to check out, it is called Money in the Morning with my cohost Joe [Saulcihi 00:17:35]. We talk about news headlines and why they matter to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, big things to Sharon Epperson for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Steph Paternot make a virtual fortune when the internet startup he co-founded in college, TheGlobe.com set records on its first trading day. But he and his company paid the price when his personal brand image as a brash young hard- partying entrepreneur pulled attention away from the business fundamentals. 

In Stephan's money story you will learn:

• Why it may not be a good idea to dance on tables during an interview

• Sometimes a lot of publicity isn't always the best publicity

• The documentary that CNN did on him that he and his company ended up paying the price for

In Stephan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to be careful not to overdramatize your story

• The importance of staying focused on your business

In Stephan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why you don't want to fall into the FOMO mentally when it comes to investing

In My Take you will learn:

• The reason that the expression "Dance like no one is watching" doesn't really work in this day and age

• Why it's so important to get back up after you fail

Check out Stephan's website -

• Slated

Follow Stephan!

• Instagram @stephanpaternot

• LinkedIn @stephanpaternot

• Twitter @stephanpaternot

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Steph Paternot:
The cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs. We maybe shouldn't trust them. You know, maybe they're too crazy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, how much thought do you give to your personal brand? To the images that you post on social media, or that are posted about you, with you in them, that you are tagged in? Do you think it impacts your career, or your future career, your business if you're an entrepreneur, your life? What would it have been like if social media weren't even around yet, and yet you were the one creating social media? It's very meta, but so is this whole interview, because I actually interviewed our guest who was the CEO of a company called theGlobe.com, the co-founder Steph Paternot back in the dotcom boom and bust.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I remember all the buzz that he got, it wasn't always focused on his company, a lot of it was on his personal life, on his clubbing, and even what he wore when he was out of the clubs. Kind of like many young adults who are in their 20s, that was a thing that people were doing at the time, he was quite normal, except most of those other 20 somethings, I'd say pretty much all of those other 20 somethings, were not worth close to $100 million on paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. If you are new, so glad you are joining us. We talk to high achievers here on the Financial Grownup podcast, they share unique money stories, and how we can learn from them, and also some every day money tips. Let's get to Steph Paternot, and the time that he and his co-founder, Todd Krizelman, were literally in college, and it should be noted that they did not drop out by the way, while they were building their company, theGlobe.com. Now they stayed in college specifically because it wasn't so clear that this internet was gonna be a thing, Steph actually said that. He really wasn't sure that the internet would be a thing that would actually be a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, stay to the end to hear more about what Steph is up to now, he is disrupting a new industry, and I think you're gonna be very interested. Here is Steph Paternot. Hey Steph Paternot, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Steph Paternot:
Good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading the re-released, new and improved, version of your book, A Very Public Offering: The Story of Theglobe.com and the First Internet Revolution, it was a total page turner, and I'm glad it got re-released, in large part because of a new series that features you, and someone playing the part of you which we'll talk about, it's a little bit weird, National Geographic series, Valley of the Boom, which I am truly enjoying. So welcome.

Steph Paternot:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, what was it like when you found out that they were casting someone to play you? Is that weird?

Steph Paternot:
Oh it was weird. I was shocked, because they had already engaged with me to come and participate in their documentary interview, and I'd already put in hours of being interviewed. In my mind it was nothing more than an expanded sort of news segment, or a documentary about the past. Since my current company, Slated, is in the film industry, I have a lot of film industry contacts, and the last thing I expected was to hear from film industry friends who were like, "Hey Steph, I just got this casting notice," I have friends who are casting directors and actors. Both parties were getting in touch with me saying, "Oh yeah so they're looking for a young, charismatic, actor to play a Steph Paternot, and another to play Mark Andreason, and a Todd Krizelman." And that's when I realized, "Oh my god I had just been pulled into something that I had no idea about."

Bobbi Rebell:
I gotta tell you Steph, your story doesn't need a whole lot of embellishment. And I'm excited about the money story that you're gonna share, because it has to do with personal branding, and the impact that can have on your financial success, or failure, of your company. And this all happened before social media was a thing. I mean you guys were inventing social media, and yet, this is kinda meta stuff I think. Tell us your money story.

Steph Paternot:
CNN decided to do a documentary on us, where they wanted to follow us, and see what the life was of a public company, dotcom CEO who's 24. And they followed Todd out to the Hamptons, where he had organized an impromptu badminton game, and a barbecue, and it was all very quaint. And then I decided, well I'll go show them what I've been doing when I need to let off steam," and that is to go clubbing, and why don't I kick it up a notch, and for once I'll wear these crazy vinyl black pants I bought, that'll make the story sexier.

Steph Paternot:
They also recorded me at my home, and one of the producers when I was off camera had asked me like, "Oh my gosh, so are you ready to live it up Steph now? I mean now that you're a billionaire are you ready to live it up?" And being that I'd grown up in England and I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, I just played along and said, "Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm ready to live a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle. That's the idea right?" And the filmed me going out to a nightclub and dancing on the tables. And I made sure really sort of to give them exactly the visual story I knew that would play well, and would be what their audience wants to believe about these dotcom days, and their juxtaposition of me dancing on the tables with this audio clip of me talking about a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle, they played that on CNN.

Steph Paternot:
Then they put that all summer long, it kept playing over and over as the hot dotcom-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my.

Steph Paternot:
I got so much [inaudible 00:00:00] from so many people, including my partner saying, "Why would you say that? Why would you do that." I was like, "Look this is all part of building the brand of the company, and living the life that they want to imagine we live." And by the way, not for nothing, but since this has been airing we've had tens of thousands more users sign up to our site. But the cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we've got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs, we maybe shouldn't trust them." People love to look for reasons when something isn't going well, of why it's not going well. And if you give the media, or if you give an audience one reason to dislike you, or to paint you with to say why everything's going badly, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Steph what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Steph Paternot:
Be careful of taking your story, or over selling, or over dramatizing, or doing something like what I did, where you gave them a cool visual and a ridiculous piece of audio. And you're giving them something they can hit you on the head with later.

Bobbi Rebell:
And do you feel it hurt your finances? Did it hurt your ability to go back for more money, and other things? Did it hurt the image? It seems like it helped to drive users to your website, but there's two sides of the business that were going on.

Steph Paternot:
Yeah, so the truth is, is that if your business fails it's not because you once wore plastic pants on a T.V. show. If your business fails, that's what people will say, because it's just easy to paint people with ... the simplest character assassination is what people like to use. But the truth is, is if your business is failing, it's usually because either your customers aren't satisfied by the product, or your advertisers are fleeing, or there's not enough revenue in the market to cover the costs of your business and your infrastructure. So the reasons theGlobe failed, ultimately, have very little to do with one particular interview segment. That just simply gave people ammunition to become haters, and troll us.

Steph Paternot:
There's so many other factors that can bring down your business. I think the takeaway her is, stay focused on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you wanted to talk about an acronym that I don't know even existed back in the day, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Steph Paternot:
FOMO, I think the term got coined in the late 90s, the fear of missing out, meant that you're operating often from a place of fear. If you're seeing everyone get rich quick because they're investing in dotcoms, well then you're gonna be apt to wanna quickly invest in anything with a dotcom as well, and you're gonna throw your money at a bunch of dotcom stuff. And for a while it's probably gonna grow, and you're gonna feel okay, until you realize that you had no clue what you were investing in. And when the market craps out, you go down with it. So you don't wanna invest ever because you're seeing everyone else getting rich from a particular area.

Steph Paternot:
By the way, that just happened in 2017 with the crypto space, right. Everyone was getting into ICOs, everyone was operating from a place of fear, if you don't invest you're gonna be poor, you gotta invest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your latest venture, Slated, tell us more about that and the other projects that you have on deck.

Steph Paternot:
I decided every movie getting made shouldn't be a miracle. There should be much more a method to the madness of filmmaking. And there's probably a much more intelligent way that people in this industry should be able to find great projects, assemble teams, find financing, and execute on their vision. And I saw this occurring in the tech space, with marketplaces like AngelList, which were making it way easier for anyone to set up a startup, find talent, find financing, discover what the growth metrics were that were important, and really grow a successful business.

Steph Paternot:
And so we took the model of AngelList, we reinvented it for the film industry, and now Slated is the leading on-line film finance marketplace. Half of all the movies that have been nominated for Academy awards the last few years are made by Slated producers, directors, writers. And we're just increasingly getting those successful filmmakers to put their next films on Slated, and getting those financed. So it took me a long time to put my CEO hat back on, and to find my passions that married film, technology, the reinvention of money on-line, and marry those all together, and really take a shot again at building a company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well congratulations on your success throughout the decades, because you really have had such an incredible run, and you're still just beginning with new projects. Where can people find out more?

Steph Paternot:
They can find me on Twitter, @stephanpaternot, or in Instagram @stephanpaternot, or on Facebook as Stephan Paternot.

Bobbi Rebell:
If only it was at theGlobe.com, oh what could have been Steph.

Steph Paternot:
What could've been, yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But thank you so much, this was great.

Steph Paternot:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
What an amazing story. Financial Grownup tip number one, you know that expression, "Dance like no one is watching." So freeing, so empowering, so not realistic in this day and age, because you know everyone's watching. Unfortunately you have to live like someone is watching. Like it or not, the lines are blurring between our work and personal, and something you think you do only amongst friends could be public faster than you can click post. Act appropriate. If you have a finsta, that's a fake Instagram, I get it. Just remember, it's still out there, and you just never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you fail, get up. Steph was down, ooh $100 million, yes it was all on paper, but it sure felt real to him. He has done so much since those days, and because he kept strong relationships with the investors that believed in him, he was able to start new businesses, new investments, and have new success. Keep an eye on Steph, and his film finance business Slated, I expect to continue to see big things, lots of disruption happening in that industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for all of your support, of not just Financial Grownup, but my new podcast, Money in the Morning with Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins fame. Truly appreciate if you tell your friends, and subscribe to both. And big thanks to Steph Paternot for helping us all get one step close to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Attorney Leslie Tayne shares her unique take on why we should view debt as a good thing, along with candid details on why she ended an engagement over money issues

In Leslie's money story you will learn:

• What kinds of things are red flags financially when dating someone

• The different approach she took with debt management

• What a "Bird and Fish issue" is and why it's important to steer clear of this kind of relationship financially
  

In Leslie’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important not to rely on someone else to take care of your money

In Leslie's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to put a positive spin on your debt

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to ask uncomfortable questions when getting serious with someone

• What the difference is between secrets vs baggage when it comes to money

Episode Links-

Leslie's book Life & Debt: A Fresh Approach to Achieving Financial Wellness

Check out Leslie's website - https://attorney-newyork.com/

Follow Leslie!

• Instagram - @taynelawgroup

• LinkedIn

• Twitter - @lesliehtayneesq / @taynelawgroup

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So the clip that you heard at the top was a big moment for me. I had never really thought of debt as something that was actually a symbol of things that that debt had allowed you to achieve. To help you get to your goals. And we don't always think of debt that way. It's a mindset and we're gonna come back to that. First, welcome to everyone. Especially to our new listeners. Let me tell you a little bit about the show. We interview high achievers that share personal stories about money that had an impact on their lives. We also give you every day money tips that you can put to work right away. In this case, as I mentioned, we're gonna be learning how to change our debt mindset. Now, the fantastic guest for this episode is Leslie Tayne. She is the author of Life and Debt. Also an attorney. And before we get to that every day money tip, she gets very real in her money story about a broken engagement. And you're also gonna hear some information about my own break up that was a little bit scary for me to talk about. My own broken marriage. We actually went through with the engagement. Did get married. And things did not work out. And a lot had to do with our different money mindsets. Here we go. With Leslie Tayne.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Leslie Tayne. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the Podcast.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much for having me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have you on for a number of reasons. One of which is you know a lot about a lot of financial things. You are the author of Life and Debt. A fresh approach to achieving financial wellness. Congratulations on the book.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me a little bit about it.

Leslie Tayne:
I don't think, from my perspective, that it's realistic to really be out of debt. I think that it's a different mindset when it comes to debt resolution, which is learning to love your debt and accept it. So I took this totally different approach about debt management, debt resolution. Whatever concept you want to call it. But I took a totally different approach which is to learn to love your debt, accept it, know that it's part of your life, and find really good strategic ways to manage it so it works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. Because it's not always realistic to just say I'm not gonna have it. We have to live in the real world. And part of living in the real world is being realistic about relationships, which is hard to do when we're caught up in things like engagements and all that goes with it. And I know I had a short marriage in my 20s, which broke up for a number of reasons. But money, as is the case in many marriages, our different money values was a factor. And that was also a factor in a big decision that you made.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes, it was. I actually was also engaged to somebody. And I ended the engagement due to what I'm gonna call bird and fish issues related to finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. That's a good tease. What does that mean?

Leslie Tayne:
So bird and fish issues have to do with my conceptualization of the differences between people's ideas of money. For example, if you're a spender and your significant other is a saver and you really like to spend and don't think about it and your significant other is a saver, you have bird and fish issues. So obviously a bird can't live in the water and a fish doesn't live in a tree. So when you have significant bird and fish issues from a financial perspective, your relationship, unless you can really manage it, is not likely to succeed in that particular area.

Leslie Tayne:
So with my significant other at the time, my fiancé, we just did not see ... And he was a great guy. It wasn't the person. It really had to do with the fact that from a financial perspective, he saw things very differently than I did. And it wasn't something that I felt would make a successful long-term relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the red flags?

Leslie Tayne:
I needed to get a new car. And I'm not sure what's on my credit. And then that starts the red flag stuff for me. The I'm not sure what's on-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ask his credit score?

Leslie Tayne:
I told him that I thought it was in his best interest to pull his credit and take a look at it and make sure that there was nothing on there that he wasn't aware of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you find out what the number was?

Leslie Tayne:
Yeah. I did see his credit later on in the relationship. The ultimate issue was about how he managed his money. Meaning he made money and he told me basically what he was earning, and his job, and his prospect for more money because another big discussion always was around Christmas time or the end of the year bonuses. So the question was, he would always say, "I wonder what I'm gonna get. Is it gonna be like it was last year? And I have to put that money away for taxes. And I need to do this or that with it." So he was volunteering that information to me and then I would follow up with questions based on his volunteering that. And there was a little bit of recklessness there and-

Bobbi Rebell:
What's an example of that?

Leslie Tayne:
Spending without thinking. Like having 100 pairs of jeans. Just continuing to buy without thinking. And then saying, "Oh, I have to pay off my ..." Things that ... These are red flags to me. Excessive spending. Not budgeting. Not being sure how you're gonna make it through the year if you're on salary plus commission. Those are red flags and problems to me. That's a money management issue. It became problematic when I would hear things like, "I don't think I can afford that." Well, you should know what you should be able to afford or not be able to afford. Or, "How could I just say no to my kids?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were examples of that happening?

Leslie Tayne:
Vacations. So if I wanted to go on vacation and say I have a different budget than he has or at least I'm aware of my budget than he had. I want to go on vacation and this is what I would like to stay. Then I don't know if I can do that. And I would say, "Well, why would you have a problem doing it based on the things that you told me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
In other words, based on his income, he should be able to afford it, but where was the money going I guess is what you were wondering.

Leslie Tayne:
Correct. Correct. And it wasn't my place. I didn't feel comfortable that it was my place to micromanage it. Again, I don't want to be in a position in relationships and I don't recommend being in a position where you are micromanaging somebody else's inability to manage their own money. Going into a relationship as adults, each one of you should be managing your money effectively and being aware of your finances, being aware of your debt, having some sort of plan. It doesn't have to be a written dissertation of exactly how to pay it off. But an idea, not when I get some money I'm gonna do this. Or I'll have some money soon. There was a dishonesty piece about not telling me what was going on with the finances and with his finances. There came a point when we were engaged when I said, "I'm not just a girlfriend now. We're engaged and we're talking about a long-term future. So I feel like I have a right to understand or have a good understanding of what your finances are." And when there was a hesitation about giving me that information, I knew at that point that I would not be able to proceed.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your advice to our listeners?

Leslie Tayne:
My best advice is that you may love this person. You may find so many wonderful qualities about them. They may be a great parent. A loving human being. But when you go into a situation where there's any level of dishonesty, that doesn't get better. That gets worse. So those are red flags. Be brave and strong. It's not easy to break off a relationship for a million different reasons. But take your time. Go slow. If you're the one with the money or you're the one with the better credit, always keep it separate and really create a line in the sand-

Bobbi Rebell:
Leslie, tell us your every day money tip. It has to do with debt, but appreciation. And not appreciation in the idea of interest appreciating. A better kind of appreciation.

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree. So I know that sounds like a challenging statement to make. But once you change your attitude and you become thankful for the debts that you have, you'd be surprised how that impacts the totality of resolving your own finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because many times, they did help you achieve something. Whether it's having a home, having a law degree, whatever it may be.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes. You're correct. All of the debt that you have helps you achieve something. You have a car, it takes you places. You have a home, you have a roof over your head. You have food that you bought maybe on credit. You have student loans from an education that you got. It's not that you didn't get something for nothing. You exchanged the debt for something that may not be tangible. But it's something that is useful in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So, Leslie, tell us a little bit more before we wrap up about your practice because it is concentrated on debt. And where people can find you and learn more about you.

Leslie Tayne:
Sure. So I'm an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of New York. And I have a practice called [inaudible 00:09:45] Law Group. We have four offices in New York. But we do help clients outside of New York as well. And we're gonna be opening offices soon in South Florida.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you. I have a book called Life and Debt. And all of that can be found online. So you can Google me at Leslie Tayne. T-A-Y-N-E. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, all under that. Or LifeandDebtBook.com. TayneLaw.com. T-A-Y-N-E-L-A-W.com. And certainly, again, you can always Google my name, Leslie Tayne, and you'll find me all over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Leslie for sharing such a candid and brave, frankly, brave story. We appreciate it.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to my take on what Leslie had to say, I just want everyone to know Leslie is happily remarried, as am I. And in both cases, our husbands are on board when it comes to our money mindsets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. This one's a little bit hard though, actually. You have to ask really uncomfortable questions if you are going to get serious with someone. I got engaged to my ex-husband. The one that I talked about at the beginning of the interview with Leslie. I didn't know his income. I didn't feel comfortable asking. Seriously. For real. But yet, I was willing to be financial partners with him. Without having that information. That is a don't. We'll leave it at that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Secrets versus baggage. They are very different. Here's the deal, guys. Leslie's problem with her ex-fiancé was not only that they had different money values because they definitely did. It was the secrets though. It was the lack of honesty. Withholding information. That is not the same as having baggage. AKA having lived a life. Things happen. You might have a student loan or even credit card debt. We're all human. Life is messy. Good luck finding someone who is perfect financially. Pretty much any money problem though can be solved if you work together and are honest with each other. Emphasis on honest. So don't confuse life's normal messiness with the stuff that matters. And that is communication and working through financial situations together. No one's perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, so grateful to Leslie Tayne. She got candid, and real, and raw. And we're so much better for it. So thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production