An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. 

 

In Kristin’s money story you will learn:

-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising

-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work

-The price of the first piece of art she sold

-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism

-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism

-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist

-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media

-How you can buy art that is affordable

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills

-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create

-Pricing strategies for art

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money

-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand

-Where Kristin goes for her recipes

In My Take you will learn:

-How to buy art as an investment

-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly

-How to use social media to research and find art to buy

-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art

You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself. 

EPISODE LINKS

Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/

The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018

This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July. 

Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:

Mourlot editions

Wide Walls

Art Space

Paddle8.com

Also mentioned: RealSimple.com

Follow Kristin!

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks

Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.

Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.

Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?

Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.

Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?

Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.

Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.

Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?

Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.

Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind. 

In Kevin’s money story you will learn:

-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born

-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire

-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire

-Why he regrets taping the video

In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect

-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!

In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:

-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential

-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio

-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced. 

In my take you will learn:

-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present

-How to time your financial check ups

Episode Links

Building Bread

Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts

Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs

Follow Kevin

Twitter @buildingbread

Instagram @buildingbread

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/

Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com

 

 

Also mentioned

Phroogal

Jason Vitug

The Financial Gym

 

Kevin Matthews II promo for the Financial Grownup podcast with Bobbi Rebell.. Kevin shares his story of recording a video for his son, about 3 ways to make sure he became a millionaire, and how he cut it very close to missing the birth of his first son!

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.

Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?

Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.

Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?

Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.

Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.

Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.

Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission. 

In Catie’s money story you will learn:

-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"

-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast

-The employer side of pay negotiation

-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation

In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach

-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford

-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals

In Catie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her tips on negotiating

-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place

-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations

-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations

In my take you will learn:

-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise

-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion

-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right. 

-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product. 

Episode Links

EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/

Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!

Instagram Catie_Lazarus

Twitter @catielazarus

Facebook EOTM

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.

Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.

Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.

Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.

Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].

Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?

Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?

Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.

Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?

Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.

Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-

Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.

Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?

Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?

Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.

Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?

Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

Episode Links

• Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast

• Check your credit score!

Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• YouTube - Popcorn Finance 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked  shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode. 

 

In Manisha’s money story you will learn:

-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons

-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator

-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween. 

-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments

-The power of compounding

In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:

-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing

-The corrosive power of inflation

-Why we need to put  the recent period of historically low inflation in context

-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility

In Manisha’s money tip you will learn

Manisha’s investing formula

1. Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios

2. Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years

3. For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age 

4. That is the amount that should be in equities

5. For example Manisha is 47. 

6. 110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Why you do not need an HP12C calculator because so much is available online

-Exactly how to find out the status of your retirement accounts and if you are on track to reach your goals

-How and why you should automate your retirement savings. 

 

Episode links: 

Follow Manisha!

Twitter: @manishathakor

Facebook: Manisha Thakor

LinkedIn Manisha Thakor

YouTube: Manisha Thakor

Instagram Manisha Thakor

Pinterest Manisha Thakor

MoneyZen.com

Get Manisha’s books! http://www.moneyzen.com/books/

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is a really hard, especially when it comes for money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are geeking out here at Financial Grownup, but stay with me friends because you will have more money and be wealthier if you listened to this episode and follow my guest advice. Manisha Thakor is the author of Get Financially Naked, How to Talk Money With Your Honey. She is also the force behind MoneyZen, and is a practicing certified financial planner. If that sounds pretty cerebral, well, she will take that as a compliment. She started learning about investing very, very early. Here is Manisha Thakor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Manisha Thakor, welcome. You are a financial grownup. I'm so excited you're joining us on the Financial Grownup podcast.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited to be here, and to be deemed by you a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're very much a grownup. You're the author of two books, On My Own Two Feet, and I love the second title, I know everyone does, Get Financially Naked. You also have MoneyZen. Lots going on.

Manisha Thakor:
I feel super excited about the world of personal finance and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good, and I'm super excited about the story that you brought to share today, because it has to do with some father-daughter bonding around, not the dinner table, around the HP 12C calculator.

Manisha Thakor:
I love this. When I was around 11 years old, my dad, he's an MBA and a CPA, he sat me down in a moment of father-daughter bonding that only financial geeks, like ourselves, could really appreciate. He had an HP 12C calculator, which for folks who may not be familiar with it, is a financial calculator that enables you to do sophisticated compounding calculations on it.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, if I earned 7% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Manisha Thakor:
That was really my first introduction to the power of compounding, and I think because he had my physically touching the buttons on the calculator, and then he made me write down the numbers in a little grid on a notepad. I can literally still even remember what the notepad looked like. It was so tactile and so visual.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have the notebook still?

Manisha Thakor:
You know, I wish I did. He and I both say in retrospect, "We totally should have saved that for the grandkids," but it's in my mind's eye. That's how I got hooked on saving and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what is the lesson for our listeners? Should everyone be bonding over calculators?

Manisha Thakor:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that's not going to happen.

Manisha Thakor:
No, I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's bring it down to a realistic level.

Manisha Thakor:
The lesson for me, and the lesson that I want to scream from the mountain tops, is, and particularly for women, is that it's not enough to just save money. Saving is great, and it's freaking hard to do, but you must invest it as well, first and foremost to offset the corrosive power of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is picking up by the way, so that's something we need to start being more aware of, and a lot of young people haven't really seen inflation at the level that other generations have. But it is going to become a bigger part of our dialog.

Manisha Thakor:
Yeah, and Bobbi, you've nailed it. We've just gone through such a bizarro period of de minimis inflation. An example I love to give is 100 bucks over a 30 year period at 3% inflation is worth $40, was, at the beginning. If you just increase that inflation to 5%, which doesn't sound like a big jump, but that drops the value of $100 in 30 years to what $20 would have bought.

Manisha Thakor:
So small [inaudible 00:05:54] inflation have a huge, huge impact, and that's why you cannot just save. You have to invest, because the first step of investing is keeping your money growing at least with the rate of inflation. If you do investing well, then ideally over the long run you grow your portfolio even faster than inflation, which increases your real purchasing power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now for your money tip, Manisha. We're geek out even more, because you have actually brought a formula. Your, Manisha's, magical formula for investing success. I promise everyone, just stick with us, she says it really well. She's going to explain it all, and we're going to have it all written down in the show notes for you as well. Go for it.

Manisha Thakor:
The way I think about how to take your hard earned savings and invest it is the following. First, take a look at the total dollar value of your current saving and investment portfolios. Second, subtract out any money you know you need to spend in the next five years. This could be money you need for a home down payment, or it could be your six month emergency fund.

Manisha Thakor:
Then, for any of your long term money, which for most of us is our retirement money. So it's any money that you know you don't have to spend in the next five years. What you do, is you take 110, and you subtract your age to get a back of the envelop estimate of what percent of your portfolio should be invested in stocks. That was a mouthful, and Bobbi, as you mentioned, it will be in the show notes, but I'll give you an example.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm 47 years old. We'll round that down, because at my age you like to round down. To keep the math easy, 110 minus 45 equals 65. So a good starting point for me, for how much of my long term money at my age should be in stocks, is 65%. Lo and behold, that's how much I have of my long term money in stocks.

Manisha Thakor:
The biggest mistake that I am seeing with young people these days is shying away from investing their savings, because they're afraid of losing money. So they're missing those vital early years of compounding. That's why it's so important that you subtract out the money you need to spend in the next five years, so no matter what the market is doing, you're fine. The money you know you needed, it's in cash. It's only your long term money that's being invested.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of young people witnessed their older siblings, or their parents, really being burnt in the recession, and that's a lot of the hesitation.

Manisha Thakor:
I'll just say, Bobbi, when I hear somebody tell me that 2007 to 2009 ruined their retirement, what I say is, "No. Either you had the wrong asset allocation going into it, or you blink and you deviated from your plan." Because if you followed the formula that I'm saying, and you didn't have any money that you needed to spend in the next five years in the market, in 2007-2009, you would have seen your portfolio drop as much as 50%, but you wouldn't have sold a single share of anything, because you didn't need to touch it, and then you would have seen your money double or triple as you came out of the recovery.

Manisha Thakor:
So the people who lost in 07-09, where the people that were forced to sell at bottom to maintain their lifestyle, or got scared because they didn't have the cash cushion, and sold at the bottom. That's why this formula is so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you've got to sit tight. Even the beginning of 2018 we had some scary days. You've got to know your focus and stick with the plan. All right. Mrs Manisha, I also hear you have big news, new projects, new jobs. Tell us.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited. I have just accepted the role of vice president of financial education for an amazing firm called Brighton Jones. I could not be happier. When I think about what I want to accomplish in this world, my belief is that money is power, and women need more of both.

Manisha Thakor:
And so I am going to be doing my darnedest in this new role to help women achieve that. As part of that, I'm really going to be ramping up my efforts with my MoneyZen newsletter. So if listeners are interested, I encourage you, go to my website, moneyzen.com. I'll have a monthly newsletter that I'll be putting out. It's educational, and I'm really going to be working hard to share the most vital resources, articles, tools, each month around women's economic empowerment, and how we can all use personal finance and investing to increase our voices and choices. I always say, "Money gives women, it gives everyone, voices and choices," and financial education, and financial guidance are what helps unlock those doors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Before I let you go, where can we find you on social media?

Manisha Thakor:
My name is a mouthful, and I'm the same handle on everything. I'm ManishaThakor everywhere. It's M-A-N-I-S-H-A-T-H-A-K-O-R, on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you forget that, go to moneyzen.com, because I have all my social media icons right up at the top.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

Manisha Thakor:
Bobbi, always a pleasure to chat with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
As warned, Manisha and her dad totally geeked out with all that math, but the good news is, you guys don't need to go out and buy yourself fancy HP 12C calculators and do all this kind of fancy math, because these days it's really all there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, there is nothing more powerful than seeing the numbers. And like I said, you don't even have to do the math yourself these days. Log into your HR website from your job, or if you work for yourself and you have retirement accounts, which you should, go there. Go to the provider, and just take a look. Most of them will have nice calculators. They'll do the math for you. They'll have probably some graphic ways to show you how you measure up, where you are relative to your retirement goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can actually see how you stand, and see how you feel about it. You might get pretty emotional. It could be a really emotion. You might doing pretty well. It could possibly be not that great, but maybe that will motivate you. But the important thing is, get the information, it doesn't take much work, and make decisions from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of decisions, financial grownup tip number two. While you're on that website, look at the retirement savings, and look for a box that says, "Increase your withholding," or a box you should check that says, "Increase your withholding by 1% every year," and of course check that box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you can always undo it, but by checking that box it will automate increasing the amount of money that you are putting away each year, and you probably won't feel it because it's tax deductible, so it won't cost you that full amount, and it will amplify your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have been hearing a lot from you guys, wanting to share your own financial grownup money stories, lessons, and money tips. So we are going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, and tell us, what is the money story that you would like to share, and what is the money tip that you would also share with us, if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Subscribe if you have not already, and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Follow me, and please retweet these silly promo videos I'm doing. They're a lot of fun. I enjoy making them. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy seeing them, if you have not already. Help us reach more listeners. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1, you can also repost those, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show, and sign up for our mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Manisha's story, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Whitney Johnson, author of "Disrupt Yourself” and her new book “Build an A Team” finds out from her financial planner that her overspending is impacting her ability to tithe 10 percent and support her church. She and her family plan a self-disruption, downsizing their life so they can deploy their money in a more intentional way. 

 

In Whitney’s story you will learn

-How a phone call from Whitney’s financial planner got Whitney’s attention about her finances

-Why Whitney was not going to be able to reach her financial goals, despite a relatively high income

-The shifts that Whitney made in terms of her spending and savings habits

-How her ties to her church and her belief in God inspire her financial planning

-How she spends differently as an entrepreneur compared to her previous career working on Wall Street

-Her belief that money is meant to be a servant, not a master

-How she uses money to support her values

 

In Whitney’s lesson you will learn:

-Every tie you spend money you are voting on the kind of world you want

-The importance of modeling financial spending for your children

 

In Whitney’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to teach kids about investing

-How to buy fractions of a share of stock

-Whitney recommends an app called Stockpile

-How Whitney looks to the theories of Peter Lynch and advocates buying what you know and use and value, and to couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior. 

 

In my take you will learn:

-How allowing your values to guide your financial life can be rewarding

-Why disrupting your life to better align it with your financial values is something people at any income level should consider

-How you can be pro-active in taking down barriers for your bosses, to create better odds of them giving a green light to your goals

-How I got my bosses to allow me to work a 4-day week for years, by removing barriers and creating solutions before I approached them. 

Episode Links

Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

Facebook - facebook.com/johnsonwhitneyauthor

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneyjohnson/

Get Whitney’s new book: Build an A Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. Free chapter download available at https://whitneyjohnson.com/ateam

Stockpile

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app.

Whitney Johnson:
"I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Well, despite the clip you heard at the top of this episode, today's podcast is not about religion, but it is about values, and leveraging your money and your financial resources to support what you and your family believe in. Whitney Johnson's new book is called Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. She is also the author of the bestseller Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work, and she hosts, you get the theme here, the Disrupt Yourself Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
In this case, the story that she's going to share, Whitney disrupted her entire family life, downsizing everything to get to her financial goals and to have the financial resources to support what she and her family value. She lives what she preaches. Here is Whitney Johnson. Whitney Johnson, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, I do want to congratulate you on your new book. It is Build an A-Team and we're going to talk more about that going forward, but just high level, what's it about?

Whitney Johnson:
Build an A-Team is about helping you as a manager build a team that can manage through change, that can be innovative and high performing, and the key is to let your people learn. When you allow them to learn, leap, and repeat, they are engaged and therefore happy, they love coming to work, they're more productive, and they love working for you, so you become a great place to work and a boss people love.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. For your money story, though, we're going talk about you and your team, which includes your husband and includes your financial planner, and an incident that happened when you got a call from your financial planner. You weren't achieving a goal that was really important to you. Tell us your money story.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. This happened about 15 years ago. I got a call from my financial planner and he said to me, "You are spending way too much money." It was really a wake-up call for me, because I was having the conversation with him of like, "I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me, that I really needed to think about, "Okay, it's really great that you can earn lots of money, but you have to also basically manage your money and not just think about what you're earning. You have to also think about what you're spending and spend less than you're actually earning." That was a really important lesson for me and really started to shift how I was thinking about money, not only what I was earning, but also what I was saving.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was important to you was that 10%. I want to pick up on that, because in your heart one of the things that you really prioritize is giving to causes that you believe in, to religious causes, to God, as you say. That was really your priority and you weren't able to accomplish that, or you would not have been able to continue to accomplish that if you didn't change your ways.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. It's such a great point because when I was thinking about the fact that I wasn't managing my money, a lot of times it was exactly to causes or people or things that I cared about, so it's not like I was being profligate, and yet if I didn't manage my money, those things that were deeply important to me, education for my children, et cetera, were not going to be a possibility, and that was a very important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there things that you could pull out that you were able to change? What did you do to pivot from there?

Whitney Johnson:
I had become an entrepreneur at this point and I was still spending like I wasn't an entrepreneur. I was still working on Wall Street, and so one of the things that we did is we made some really tough decisions. Over the next year, we decided to downsize and to sell our house, and to really pare back on how we were spending our money in that interim so that we could still buy the things that mattered to us, but then also undertake these entrepreneurial ventures that were also important to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And maintain a culture and a family life and setting an example, for the rest of your family, of giving.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely, 100%, because that is a high, high priority for me and for my husband and for our entire family, is to be able to give to others.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Whitney Johnson:
Most of us have a pretty ... not most, many, probably including myself, have a fairly froth relationship with money. We're like, "Is it good? Is it bad?" And it's not either, and so a couple of lessons that I've learned is that money is meant to be a servant, not a master, and that I, and this is a gradual lesson that I've been learning throughout my life, is to remember that that's the case. And that also the more money we're able to not only earn, but the more we extend our ability to do good beyond our physical presence, and so those are becoming mantras for me, but really guiding principles in terms of how I think about money saving tactically day-to-day, and spending, I should say, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the importance of not only thinking about growing your business and buying things, but also the values that money can help you support.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. I mean, one of the things, there was a quote that I remember reading probably about seven or eight years ago now, which is really, again, a bit of a watchword for me. It was Anna Lappé and she said that every time you spend money, you're voting on the kind of world that you want. That has been a really powerful thing for me. One, a dollar, $10, what kind of world am I saying I want with this money that I've just spent or allocated to whatever I allocated it to? That's just a really important thing to me and something that we're trying to instill in our children as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have a wonderful money tip, and this is great especially when you talk about children. It's always hard to teach children to invest because sometimes stocks are really expensive and you can't always buy. I can think of Berkshire Hathaway, obviously as the most extreme example perhaps, but a lot of stocks, they don't split and they're very expensive to buy individual stocks. They just start buying 100 shares of a stock, so talk to me about your money tip, because it has to do with investing. It's something that is often applicable when children want to start learning about investing.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. One of the really wonderful boons of the last couple of years is you can buy fractional shares. You don't have to buy 100 shares. You don't even have to buy 10 shares. You can buy a half a share. There's something called Stockpile, stockpile.com, that you can go on there and say, "Okay, I want to spend $300," and so you can spend $300 on Apple or $300 on Tesla. Or just to other day for my son, for his birthday, he wanted to buy Spotify, and so I was like, "Okay, $300. We'll buy some Spotify stock." I don't actually know how much it costs, but you can buy a half a share, a quarter of a share, a tenth of a share, but it's just based on how much money you want to spend.

Whitney Johnson:
So it's a great way to start investing in the stock market and really building on an idea that Peter Lynch pioneered 20, 30 years ago now, which is to buy what it is you know and use and value, and couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior, and fractional shares, and Stockpile specifically, allows you to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. All right. Let's talk about your new book because it is coming out pretty much now. It's called Build an A-Team. It's a follow up to Disrupt Yourself, which was a huge, huge hit and relatable to so many people, especially myself, having disrupted myself in the last few years professionally. Tell me more about Build an A-Team.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, Build an A-Team came about because people had read Disrupt Yourself and said, "Okay. I get it. I got it. I'm willing to disrupt myself, but what about the people around me? How do I create an ecosystem that makes that possible?" So in Build an A-Team I make it possible for you to think about, "Okay, how do I create a workplace or an environment, a team where personal disruption is possible?" Then I flip it on its head and say, "Okay, so to you, the manager, you don't want just your people to be disputing themselves willy-nilly. What's in it for you?"

Whitney Johnson:
So I make the case that every single person is on a learning curve, including you, the manager, and you build that team that can innovate, that can manage through change by managing your team as a collection of S curves or learning curves, and optimize by having about 70% of your people in the middle at any given time, 15% at the low end, and 15% of your people at the high end. And when they get to the high of their learning curve, you allow them to disrupt themselves because by doing that, they start over that cycle of learn, leap, and repeat, and whenever people are learning, they're able to be innovative. When they're learning, they're innovative, and so you as a company can stay competitive, and because they're so happy at work, they love working for you as a boss, and so you become a talent magnet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you, if you are the employee, because a lot of our listeners are younger and starting out in their careers, if you are on the curve and you recognize that you're at the top of your curve, do you approach your manager and say, "I basically want a different job within the organization"? I mean, what do you do?

Whitney Johnson:
Obviously there are going to be risks in doing that. You've got to really suss out your boss. I think one of the ways that you can do that is, "Does it make sense for me to have this conversation with my boss?" What's that boss' track record? Do they have a history of people who have worked for them in the past, it's been possible for them to move on to other opportunities for which the boss advocated, that they've sponsored them into those opportunities? Then you can be pretty comfortable that having that conversation with them is a safe thing to do. You also, before you have that conversation, want to make sure that in fact you are ready to ... sometimes we overestimate our abilities. We all do it. We think we really want it, and so therefore it's time for us to have it.

Whitney Johnson:
So in having that conversation, what I would encourage you to do is go to your boss and say, "I've been in this role for about three years. It feels like I'm starting to peak and I've really hit my stride, and it's time for me to try something new, so here's what I would propose and here's the business case for why it makes sense for me to do it, because it's not just about me. It's going to help our organization be more innovative, and in the process I've identified this person over here that I think can really step into this role nicely, so you will not be left in the lurch. I will help train that successor so that they're able to continue to grow and develop. And at the same time I'm able to grow and develop as well as help our organization and our team be more innovative, and so that would be my suggestion to you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Anticipate what's going to go wrong and make sure you have a solution for every possible iteration. All right. Whitney Johnson, where can people find you?

Whitney Johnson:
You can find me at whitneyjohnson.com. If you want to email me, it's wj@whitneyjohnson.com. I would love to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you have, by the way, a million, I heard a million LinkedIn followers.

Whitney Johnson:
I do, 1.2 million, actually, but I'm not counting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. You are our hero, Whitney Johnson. I will leave all of your social media links in the show notes, but just so we have them here, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff?

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Johnson Whitney, actually. It's Johnson Whitney.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Good to know. Exactly. That's why we ask. All right. You're wonderful. Thank you so much, and congratulations on the new book.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Don't you feel so motivated by Whitney, like anything is possible if you know think it through and get really intentional?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, let your values be a guide to how you want to not just spend your money, but spend your life. Whitney literally disrupted her entire life, her family downsized, and I don't have Whitney's personal financial info, but I'm guessing she does pretty well, so this is not really about income level. It's about allocation of your resources, whatever they are, to support the way you want to live your life and the role model you want to be for your family. In Whitney's case, it was about tithing to her church and other things that her family valued, like education and financial security and financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, get intentional about your career goals. You probably think you are, but be honest. Are you proactively doing something to remove barriers? Put yourself in your bosses' position and think about what they need to get you what you want. If you own a business, your clients are basically your bosses. Yeah, sorry, but kind of. Right? So come with solutions.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I wanted to work, for example, four days a week after having my son, I presented my bosses with the solution. My colleague, who was, fun fact, Manoush Zomorodi that many of you may know as the host of the Note to Self podcast, was also having her son. We gave birth, in fact, two days apart in the same hospital. Manoush agreed to be my Friday fill in. We presented a complete solution, and it was tough for the bosses to turn down something that was already good to go, especially with someone as wonderful as Manoush.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now Whitney is giving us the first chapter of her new book Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve for free to download. Just go to whitneyjohnson.com/ateam and you can get that download, so start there for free and then go pick up a copy of the whole book ASAP. Build an A-Team has tons of specific examples in it that will give you a lot of aha moments of how bosses think and need to think, and it is well worth the time you will invest in reading it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just a reminder, we are excited to start our once a month listener episode, so if you want to be a guest on Financial Grownup, email us with your money story and your money tip to info@financialgrownup.com. Make sure you are on our mailing list. Go to our website, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You'll get a pop up and you can sign up. Be in touch on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and on Instagram, at bobbirebell1. Whitney Johnson gave us so much to think about. Here is to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Canadian rower Jeremiah Brown, author of “The 4 Year Olympian”  had a dream- to make it to the Olympics in four years- without sinking into debt. That meant downsizing, living lean, and learning how to get the most financial  support possible for his athletic ambitions. 

In Jeremiah’s money story you will learn:

-How Jeremiah funded his Olympic dream on a 4 year timetable

-Specifically how he cut his expenses despite having a young child to support

-The funding he got from the Canadian government and how the system works to support athletes

-How he estimated the funding he would need, and then worked towards that goal

- The strategy he used to negotiate extra leave from his job with TD Ameritrade

In Jeremiah’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of financial planning for the psychological well-being of athletes

-Not to defer your life dreams for fear of missing out on short term financial goals

-How to get the support of your employer for a big personal goal or project

In Jeremiah’s money tip you will learn:

-One way to save money each and every time you buy food outside the home

-How being both budget conscious and environmentally conscious can go hand in hand

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of sharing money lessons in the moment with your kids

-How asking for a little more from your employer can pay off

Episode Links

Jeremiah’s website: https://the4yearolympian.com/

Get Jeremiah’s book The 4 Year Olympian

Follow Jeremiah!

Twitter @JeremiahFBrown

Instagram: @brownjf24

LinkedIn Jeremiah Brown

Facebook The4yearOlympian

TD Ameritrade

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free out transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Jeremiah Brown:
I've seen so many athletes, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life, just to get to the Olympics. The last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red, accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough. You don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, very excited about today's guest. We have our first Olympian on Financial Grownup, our first athlete overall, in fact, Jeremiah Brown. He won a silver medal as part of the Canadian rowing team at the London Olympics and wrote a book about it called The Four Year Olympian. But if you met him earlier in his life, you most likely would never have predicted that kind of achievement. At 17 he came very close, in fact, to going to prison. He was a father at 19, and there's a lot more to the story. I will let him take it from here. Here is Jeremiah Brown. Jeremiah Brown, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited because, Jeremiah, you are the first athlete that we have had, and you are also a silver medal winner in the Olympics, so congratulations on that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, I'm honored to bring maybe a different perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, well you're also out with an amazing book, The Four Year Olympian, which is talking about how you got there in just four years, and it's a story of perseverance and grit and determination, but also, financial planning, which is part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast. Tell us your money story and how that helped you become an Olympic silver medalist.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, let me set the scene for you. I was 23 years old. I was in my first job at a bank as an analyst. I had this dream to go to the Olympics, and I had this problem of how I was going to fund that dream. I also had a young son at the time, I started early in life, and I was thinking, "How am I going to pay for his daycare?" Which was $800 a month. You know, my housing costs, which at the time I was renting a nice house at this lake in Victoria, in British Columbia, Canada. That was costing me, I think, $1500 a month. So I had this cost of living that I needed to ratchet down if I was going to be able to figure out how to fund my Olympic dream.

Jeremiah Brown:
So what did I end up doing? Well, I saved every penny of my disposable income for a full year from my job. I moved from that expensive rental into a really small condo, it was 500 square feet, so it was pretty tight for ...

Bobbi Rebell:
With your son?

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, with my son and his mom, there were three of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Jeremiah Brown:
We were in this shoebox condo. But eventually I got, like my housing cost was down to about $600 a month. Then I was able to make it work just to train that first full year with the national team before I was able to get the federal funding that really only brought me up to $18000 a year, but it was able to cover my basic costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Canada has some funding for athletes? Just tell us briefly, explain that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, so Canada, once you get to the senior national team level and you're competing internationally in your sport, if it's an Olympic sport, the federal government will give you, it's called carding, it's a monthly stipend. When I was competing it was $1500 a month was the most you could get. It's very similar to the US. They have different amounts down there, but it's a similar kind of system.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you had four years, which goes to your book, four years to get to the Olympics. How much would you say you invested in preparing for the Olympics? What does it cost to get to the Olympics starting basically from scratch?

Jeremiah Brown:
It depends on how you do it. So for me, I knew I was going to need about $12000 of my own money to cover the shortfall in the first year. So when I first started I was going to get a little bit of funding from the government, I knew that, it was called development funding. Then the whole plan hinged on me performing better and better over time and getting up to that higher level of funding. So I was able to come through this without any debt and with expenses of each of those years of about, I'd say, between $25000 and $30000 of core living expenses. Then the team covered the travel and they provided some of the training, and some of the other expenses were already covered. So I just lived lean, and luckily as an athlete you're training so much that you're not spending a lot of money either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also psychological, it's important psychologically that you not be stressed out about money.

Jeremiah Brown:
It's huge. I've seen so many athletes who, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life anyways, just to try to get to the Olympics, and the last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough, you don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about the lesson here for people, for our listeners who have goals that they want to reach, especially when there's a very finite timeline, I mean, it was four years, that was it, there was a definite structure to this. It wasn't like you just wanted to go on forever. You wanted to reach this goal.

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm like you, Bobbi, and probably a lot of your listeners in that I think of myself as trying to be financially responsible, and I was thinking of my longterm plan, and what was my retirement horizon, and how much did I need to invest and all that. But I think sometimes when we get in this rut of totally deferring everything and becoming a slave to this sense of financial responsibility, and I think, I guess my lesson for the listeners is that you can do these, you can chase these personal dreams without it totally destroying your financial plan. I'm back on track to where I was pre-games. I think if you have a well planned strategy and you're willing to invest in yourself at any stage of life, it's something you're not going to regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction when you kind of left your job and said, "This is what I'm going to do."

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, it's funny, when you try to do this, like when you're chasing incredible goals, in fact, people around you all rally around you. The bank actually supported me, they said, "Okay, you can take a leave of absence." I ended up taking, I think it was a record for this bank, it's TD Bank, one of the biggest banks in Canada, and I think I ended up being on a leave of absence for 18 months, and the policy was up to six months, so they were really behind me and they actually supported what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, congratulations so much, it's so exciting, and I love the fact that you actually came back with a medal, because sometimes people invest so much and unfortunately they don't turn out as well as your dreams did. So I just wanted to make sure to really congratulate you, it's just amazing. And congratulations on your book, we're going to talk more about that in one sec. I want to get your money tip though, because you talked about your young son, your son is now 12 years old, tell us your money tip because it has to do with when you're out with your son.

Jeremiah Brown:
All right, so my son and I, you know, we travel quite a bit for his sports.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is he a rower also?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, not yet. But he's playing basketball, he's on the city basketball team for his age group. So we're going to tournaments a lot, we're traveling for his sports, and yeah, we need to stop and we need to eat while we're on the road. One of the ways I try to teach him and save money is to just ask for a cup of water at the restaurant, whether it's a fast food place or anywhere, just say, "Can I just have a glass of tap water?" Maybe it's a little embarrassing for him, but it's just trying to teach him that you can save incrementally here and there and that's a good place to do it. Don't buy the $4 or $5 fountain pop, just get a cup of water, it's free, and enjoy your meal. And healthier and better for the environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point, I'm glad you said that, because all of those plastic bottles are very bad for our environment, and sometimes they can even give it to you in a glass, not a disposable cup, which is even better. So it's important to save money and save the environment. Tell me more now about The Four Year Olympian, your new book.

Jeremiah Brown:
Okay, so this book, it's The Four Year Olympian, and it took me five years to write the book about the story.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait, wait, it took you longer to write the book about your four year journey to the Olympics than it did to get to the Olympics?

Jeremiah Brown:
It did. It was the second hardest thing I've done in my life, and it was just difficult in a different way, it's sort of an intellectual kind of masochism as opposed to just a brutal physical and mental effort. So it's essentially a memoir from when I became a young father at the age of 19 and I was faced with this, to me it felt like a predictable path in life, and I still felt like I had potential as an athlete. I went and chased this dream, and really the book is an exposition on overcoming self doubt, and what happens when you enslave yourself to a goal, like I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You allude to struggle there, I know you were a young father, it sounds like it was unexpected, what other struggles did you have earlier in life?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, I got into a little bit of trouble when I was 17. I guess I technically was a juvenile delinquent. I took a prank too far in high school and I was actually facing some prison time. I had to go through this court process. What I did was I actually, I stole some pittas from a Pita Pit delivery person with a friend, and we thought it was just going to be something we could laugh off. But I ended up going through this whole process of facing actual prison time, and it was a really pivotal time in my life where I thought, "Geez, you know, I'm a good kid, I just screwed up, and this is not who I am." So I came out of that with a bit of a chip on my shoulder and I wanted to prove to myself and to others, you know, as a young man back then, I just wanted to show that I had way more potential than sort of the reputation that I'd gained after that slip-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you have certainly proven yourself, Jeremiah, we are so happy for you and so excited to read more about your journey in your book, The Four Year Olympian, where else can people follow you and learn more about you and all of your current successes and your future successes? Because we're so excited to see what you do next.

Jeremiah Brown:
The best place people can find me is going to the book website: the4yearolympian.com, that's with a numeral 4, and you can find me there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful, and on social media?

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm on Twitter, @JeremiahFBrown, and I'm on Instagram, just started, I'm working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Baby steps, it's okay.

Jeremiah Brown:
That's BrownJF24.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and being a part of Financial Grownup. We really loved having you.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremiah was able to focus on his training because he had a financial plan in place, and he is right, for athletes or anyone working intensely towards a goal, financial stress is one distraction you don't want to be fighting up against. Financial Grownup tip number one: don't be so quick to quit your job to live your dream if you can avoid it. Jeremiah took a leave of absence, and because he had been a strong employee and was valued by his company, because he got them on board and they were with the program, he was able to take a much longer leave of absence than was in their official corporate policy. He knew he had something to go back to when he needed it if he wanted. Don't assume your employer will stick to the exact policy and won't give you more if you ask. Ask, the worst they could say is no. But having their support and having the financial security of knowing you have a job to go back to, if you want to try something like going for the Olympics, is going to be priceless.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: don't keep your money saving tips to yourself, including your kids. Jeremiah's tip about asking for a cup of tap water instead of buying soda or bottled water was spot on. But even better was the fact that he was teaching his 12-year-old son painless ways to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great episode from Jeremiah. Don't forget to pick up his book, The Four Year Olympian. It is brutally honest and will really take you into what it takes to reach the podium at the Olympics or achieve any big dream that maybe seems impossible at the time. Hit the subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook my author page is Bobbi Rebell. And if you want to be a guest on the show, a reminder, we are going to start having listener episodes once a month. Send us your money story and your money tip that you would share, to: info@financialgrownup.com to be considered. I hope you all enjoyed Olympic silver medalist, Jeremiah Brown's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When Melanie Lockert and her business partner Emma Pattee launched the Lola Retreat in 2017,  profits were at the bottom of their list. So low they did not even try to get sponsors until just a few weeks before the event. What happened then was shocking. Plus a money tip for the luxury lover. 

In Melanie’s money story you will learn:

-The behind-the-scenes decisions that went into the launch of the Lola Retreat

-Why the creators of Lola prioritized content over profit

-How the last-minute decision to reach out for sponsorship took Lola from a money-losing venture into a profitable ongoing business

-Why they chose not to outsource as they were building the Lola Retreat

-The technique Melanie Lockert and her partner Emma Pattee used to attract sponsors to her first-ever Lola Retreat

In Melanie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of actually asking for what you want

-How to leverage your reputation to build a new business

-How positive thinking even in tough times helped Melanie achieve her goals.

-Melanie’s new approach to negotiation

In Melanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Where to get luxury beauty services at a fraction of the cost

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should aim high when asking for money

-How smaller,niche events can offer great marketing value for even the largest companies

-Ways to save money on services by going to students in places like cooking schools and design schools, in addition to the beauty schools that Melanie discussed

Follow Melanie!

Twitter @deardebtblog @LolaRetreat

Instagram @deardebt @lolaretreat

Facebook Melanie Lockert

Melanie’s Dear Debt blog

Get Melanie’s book Dear Debt

Learn more about lolaretreat.com

Fidelity.com

FinancialGym.com

Kristin Wong is at TheWildWong.com

Erin Lowry/Broke Millennial is at https://brokemillennial.com/

 

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Transcription

Melanie Lockert:
Something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event. It was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. You guys know that song, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets." Well, the reality is sometimes Lola has to actually ask for it. That is the irony of the story you are about to hear from Melanie Lockert. She is well-known from her blog and her book, Dear Debt, where she chronicled her feelings about the $81,000 of debt that she was saddled with. Melanie is also the co-founder of the Lola Retreat, and yes, the name was inspired by that song, because it is meant to be about women getting whatever they want. While the event is meant to teach attendees how to empower themselves financially, when planning her first conference, Melanie had to learn some lessons of her own in that regard. Here is Melanie Lockert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melanie Lockert, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Melanie Lockert:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
People know you from your Dear Debt blog, your Dear Debt book, and your newest project, which we will talk about more at the end of the podcast. Just briefly, what is Lola Retreat, because I know it's happening very soon.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah. Lola Retreat is a women and money event, and it is a weekend full of education and workshop and panels to empower women to rock their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted you to explain what it is because the money story that you're going to talk about has to do with it, and it has to do with year one, which was just last year, and how you've monetized the event and what you did right and what you maybe would do differently and are doing differently this time.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, totally. I had such a great money lesson last year. With the retreat, there was so much going on in regards to programming and attendees, and I was so focused on getting the content really wonderful and making sure that we got the venue right, the speakers and everything that sponsors were not really on my mind. I really just wanted to make sure that it was the best even possible, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and when you say sponsors, you were just funding it purely on the admission that you were charging people?

Melanie Lockert:
Our ticket sales were really getting invested back into the event, so we didn't really know if we were going to make money on this event or not. Three weeks before the event, Emma, my colleague, talked to me, and she was like, "Melanie, we're going to breakeven right now, so if you want to make some money on this event, either we're going to have to cut back or be happy with breaking even." I was like, "I don't like either of those answers. I don't want to cut back because this is our first event, and it needs to be super amazing, and I also want to make some money, even if it's just one dollar." I really needed just that symbolic metaphor that I made a profit, so I was like, "How am I going to do this?" I was like, "I'm going to approach sponsors. People sponsor events all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to approach sponsors, I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to go find some money." In the back of my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. I haven't contacted anybody about sponsorship money. It's too late."

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you guys discussed the concept of sponsors at all? Had it ever occurred to you before this?

Melanie Lockert:
We kind of did, but it was really at the bottom of our list. We really were just focused on making sure the programming was amazing and making sure all of the programmatic details were really in place.

Bobbi Rebell:
So just to be clear, it's not that you were trying and sponsors were rejecting, you just literally had not tried. Did you think about outsourcing it to somebody else, or it just slipped through the cracks?

Melanie Lockert:
It slipped through the cracks. It was something that we didn't really focus on at all. We didn't contact anyone about it until three weeks, and in the back of my mind, I was like, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. There's no way anybody's going to give us any money at this point it's too late." But I wanted to do it anyways just so I could cross it off my list and say that I did it, and be like, "Okay, well, I tried to get money. It didn't happen, whatever," but something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event, and so it was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you talk a little bit about how much money you got in sponsorships and maybe speculate what you think you may have left on the table had you tried earlier?

Melanie Lockert:
We did get several thousand dollars worth of sponsorships. I don't want to get into specifics, but I definitely know we did leave some money on the table.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made a profit of more than a dollar first of all, to be clear.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's excellent.

Melanie Lockert:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think you left money on the table?

Melanie Lockert:
I do think we left money on the table because, first of all, we did give sponsorships at a discount because it was so late, number one. Number two, there's only so much you can do in three weeks, so we didn't have really the time to foster that kind of outreach and sponsorship beforehand, and I think if we would've had more time to dedicate earlier on that we could've had more sponsorship money and really been able to fund the event in a better way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do differently in year two?

Melanie Lockert:
This year we've definitely worked on approaching sponsors earlier. I'm happy to say that we're going to be working with Fidelity on a welcome reception for Lola Retreat year two. I'm super excited about that. They are a wonderful company, and they've always supported women and money. We're definitely working with a lot of scholarship sponsors this year. That makes me super happy because the scholarship sponsorship is near and dear to my heart. Essentially people sponsor a lovely lady to come to the event who wouldn't be able to otherwise come, so they get to read over the scholarship applications and they get to pick who they think would be a good fit to come to the event. It's really interactive, it's really an affordable sponsorship too, and at the end of the day it's one less ticket that I need to sell, so we've been focusing on that a lot as well, which is fun for me, and I really enjoy that part of it.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, I think this year we've had kind of more time to focus and more outreach, and then really focus on big partners. We've loved to work with Fidelity this year and continue working with sponsors that really align with our values.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson now? I know that we are still a couple weeks away from Lola Retreat. What is the lesson for our listeners about this? What's the takeaway?

Melanie Lockert:
The lesson is that you should always ask, and you should really check yourself if you think there's no way that you can do something because in my mind, I had already made up the fact that, "Oh, no one's going to give me money. It's too late. It's three weeks before the event. Why would anyone take me seriously?" Mind you, it was scary because in year one, this was before the event, we had nothing to show for it. We had no photos, we had no testimonials, we just had a website essentially. We had nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also had your reputation. You had a very strong reputation, as does your partner.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did have that. That's a lot.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did have that, which is definitely helpful, but from an event standpoint we had nothing necessarily to show, "Here are the testimonials, here are what people said, here are photos, here's impressions from the social media from that weekend." We had nothing concrete to show, and so in my mind it was like, "No one's going to take us seriously. No one's going to give us money," and I just had already made up my mind, but I was so shocked kind of how easy it was. I mean, it wasn't super easy, but it wasn't that difficult either.

Bobbi Rebell:
People said yes.

Melanie Lockert:
People said yes more than they said no actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Melanie Lockert:
I think I was just so passionate about women and money and doing this event, and I think people could see the grit and the passion in my words, and they can understand the idea. People were willing to invest in that idea, and those initial sponsors, I'm so grateful for because they really believed in us and our idea from the beginning when we had nothing to show. I'm really grateful for them, and then it just proved to me, like what other areas of my life am I convinced that, "Oh, this isn't going to work out, or this wouldn't happen," but if I just try, maybe it will. Actually, this is a reoccurring lesson for me. I actually when I was a non-profit employee before becoming self-employed, I had never asked for a raise once. Not once. I'm so ashamed that I've never negotiated my salary until becoming self-employed, because as a self-employed person, you have to learn to negotiate or you will not survive. This is kind of a reoccurring money lesson for me is that I have to know what I'm worth, and I have to negotiate, and I have to ask, and really at the end of the day, the worst thing people are going to say is no. No one's going to laugh at your idea and say you're stupid and call you ridiculous and think, "Wow, you think you're something else," or "you think you're a bigshot."

Melanie Lockert:
No one's going to say that. They're just going to say, "No, we can't do that." It's really okay. I'm really trying to push my boundaries and figure out other areas of my life that I can push and really kind of change the game a little bit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you before we get to your money tip. In terms of the money, you made a few thousand dollars in year one. In terms of how much more you're going to make this year, can you give me some idea of how the results changed when you were more purposeful in asking for sponsorships?

Melanie Lockert:
That's a good question. That's still TBD because we still have a lot of expenses that are going to be in the queue in the next coming weeks, but projecting right now it looks like hopefully double what we made last year, which would be really amazing, but like I said, we're not totally sure because there are a lot of last minute expenses that come up towards the end. We will see how everything shakes out, but I'm feeling pretty good about everything right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your money tip because this one is brilliant, and I never thought of this. This is really original, and it's something that can let us all have our luxuries and indulgences, but within our budgets, or even just to save money for other things that we want to do even if we're not on a tight budget, so it's nice to spend a little bit less for luxuries in life. Do tell.

Melanie Lockert:
Totally. Yeah. My money tip is to go to a beauty school for haircuts, pedicures, manicures, or massages or facials. When I was paying off debt, I didn't really have extra money to do anything, but I still wanted to treat myself at least once a year to something, especially when I hit a big debt milestone, right? I found this beauty school in Portland, and the rates were so insanely cheap because all of them were students, and before you get scared, they do have kind of more professional level people there working alongside the students to make sure they don't mess up. I remember I paid like $35 for a pedicure, a manicure, and a facial.

Bobbi Rebell:
Total.

Melanie Lockert:
Total, and I'm pretty sure the school had a policy that you couldn't tip either because it was a school, so it was super affordable. It was really affordable. My money tip is to find a local beauty school in your area and see what services they offer. It could be much, much cheaper and at a fraction of a cost, and at least in my personal experience, it was wonderful. If you have a specific person that you love or specific things then maybe that's not necessarily the best tip for you, but for me, the services were completely comparable and totally worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk about the Lola Retreat. It is in my hometown, New York City, this year.

Melanie Lockert:
Yay, I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, it's going to be at the Financial Gym, so Shannon McLeigh, the CEO and founder of The Financial Gym is one of my best friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she was on the podcast last week.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, she is amazing, and she has graciously agreed to host us in New York city, so Lola Retreat is at The Financial Gym April 27th through the 29th, and we are going to have sessions on how to pay off debt, how to get started with investing, how to level up your money with Kristin Wong. We also have Get Your Financial Life together with Erin Lowry. We also have some really interesting panels on how to prepare and deal with financial disaster as well as this concept of F Off Funds. I won't curse on the podcast, but it's especially important for women, especially right now for women to have a separate stash of cash to be able to say, "F you," in a situation that is not healthy, whether it's a workplace scenario, a relationship scenario. I think it's so important, so I'm really excited about the content that we have, and so excited to meet our lovely ladies. Yeah, I think it's going to be a wonderful weekend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I send people to sign up for Lola and to be in touch with you?

Melanie Lockert:
People can go to LolaRetreat.com and check it out. People can also find me at DearDebt.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Melanie Lockert, Lola Retreat. Can't wait to get there. It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Loved hearing how far Melanie and her partner have come in just one year of the Lola Conference. Here's my take, Financial Grown Up tip number one. Aim high. In year one, Melanie didn't think she would get any sponsors. She was shy just about reaching out to anyone at all, but here we are, just year two, just a second year, and she has incredible brand. She has Fidelity, guys. Sensei, Shopkick, and of course The Financial Gym, so don't write off a large company assuming they will only sponsor large events. They will find, often, a lot of value in smaller, targeted, specific events that have engaged and invested audiences as is the case with Lola.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two, be creative when it comes to treating yourself. If you're feeling deprived financially because you never get to do anything, you are much more likely to cheat, just like on a food diet. Melanie talked about going to beauty schools for things like manicures, massages, facials, all that good spa stuff, but sticking to the theme of students, you can also, for example, have a great meal at a cooking school, or if you're redoing your home or redecorating one of the rooms but have a limited budget, consider getting a student from a local design school involved, and just think, you could be someone's final graduation project. You never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, if you enjoyed Melanie's story, please hit the subscribe button, and if you have just a few minutes, leave a review on Apple podcast. They really do make a difference in getting the word out. I am also working on getting better at sending out my newsletters, so if you are not already on the list, get on the list. Just go to BobbiRebell.com. While you're there you can check out previous episodes by clicking on Financial Grown Up Podcast, and of course, be in touch. I'm on Twitter @BobbiRebell, Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. I hope you guys all head out and treat yourselves to some affordable indulgences just like Melanie, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

John Schwartz, NY Times correspondent and author of the new book “This Is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order” shares the story of his first home purchase, how it brought him to the brink of bankruptcy, and why he flosses every day. 

In John’s money story you will learn:

-How John’s seemingly solid real estate investment went downhill

-How the rights of tenants can put owners in losing positions

-The specific financial steps John took ahead of a likely bankruptcy filing

-The factors that went into John’s decision about bankruptcy

In John’s lesson you will learn:

-Why John says failure is not the end of your financial life

-How John and his family rebuilt their life

-The specific steps John took to financially protect his second home

-What he would and would not have done differently in buying real estate

-The impact of a broad-economic downturn on individuals like John, and how you can create some protection as a home owner

In John’s money tip you will learn:

-The one health tip that John says will save you a ton of money

-The importance of daily health habits to avoid massive medical bills

-How his life informed his book “The is the Year I Put my Financial Life in Order” and how the book came together

-Why John did not have a will until his late 50’s

-John’s advice on retirement savings

In my take you will learn:

-Real Estate is a high stakes game, that should be entered into with eyes wide open

-My take on what John could have done differently

-The choice my family made to avoid investing in a property that would be hard to sell

-Why I still believe owning real estate is a great opportunity, despite the tax law changes

Follow John!

Twitter: @JSwatz

Facebook: This is the Year Schwartz

 

 

Buy John’s book!! : This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order ! 

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Transcription

John Schwartz:
My father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy." I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy, you need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, before we get into today's interview, I want to do a quick thank you to all of you for supporting the show. Our numbers are going up, which is really cool. The show is being discovered and I have all of you to thank for it. I also want to thank some of our friends in the media that have highlighted Financial Grownup, including Forbes, which named Financial Grownup one of five podcasts that are getting it right. We were up there with some really big names like TheSkimm and Masters of Scale with Reid Hoffman and Powderkeg and a Rent the Runway related show, so it was pretty incredible to get that recognition.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want to thank Business Insider for highlighting our recent episode with The Muse's co-founder Kathryn Minshew. Her story is pretty incredible, so I'm glad more people got to learn about it. Thank you to all of you and I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Okay. Now to the show. Many of us bring our A game to our professional lives. I certainly try to, but then we don't always make the effort at home. Think of the chef that whips up these gourmet, amazing meals at their fancy restaurant, then they go home and they can barely scrounge together maybe a grilled cheese or some leftovers. Who knows? New York Times correspondent, John Schwartz, is that guy. No, he's not a cook. He's obviously a journalist, but he does research for a living.

Bobbi Rebell:
He's written four books and he's also been a journalist at a number of prestigious publications. Right now, as I mentioned, he's at The New York Times, but in his personal life, he messed up and it cost him, and it kept costing him for years. It was really bad. But, the story of the author of his new book, This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. Sensing a theme here, he got it together. Does have a happy ending. Just maybe not what you were thinking. Here is John Schwartz. Hey John Schwartz, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

John Schwartz:
Well, thanks it's great to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations. Your new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order is coming out right now. I whipped through this book by the way in a day and a half, which is pretty amazing, cuz I can be a bit of a procrastinator, but I couldn't put this down. It was a great book.

John Schwartz:
God, I'm glad to hear that. Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long did it take you to write it, by the way?

John Schwartz:
It was a little more than one year.

Bobbi Rebell:
I brought that up, because within the book is this gem of a money story that, I don't know, at first when you told me it I was disappointed in you, but when I read it in the context of the book, I respected you and I felt like, wow, this could happen to anyone. Tell us your money story.

John Schwartz:
Well, we bought an apartment in New York, which is either a success story or the beginning of a horror story. In our case, it turned pretty bad, because I got a job in another city.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which should be good-

John Schwartz:
Which should be good. Again, career advancement? Exactly. But, we got there and not only could I not sell the apartment in New York, because we had bought at the top of the market, but when we had a tenant, which also seemed like a pretty good idea, that tenant decided to stop paying. And, knew his rights, as he told me over the phone. I was either gonna have to spend a tremendous amount of money on lawyers to get him out or as the super in the building suggested, kill him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, no.

John Schwartz:
No, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
He is alive and well. Let's just make that clear.

John Schwartz:
Right. Well, at least, last I checked. Then, over time all our savings were gone. We were faced with near bankruptcy and ended up defaulting on the apartment and losing it. As a little side note, that apartment's worth more than a million dollars today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Can you give us some of the numbers involved and how this happened?

John Schwartz:
Well, it was $136,000. I believe, it might have been 138, my memories not perfect. We were able to pull together the down payment in part, because my wife had a little inheritance from her grandfather and I'd been making pretty good money at Newsweek. We were able to make the payments, but we were not able to make those payments and pay our rent in Washington. That's where the money really started to kill us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the tenants weren't paying.

John Schwartz:
And the tenants were paying nothing. Well, we have the first tenant, I finally got him out at the suggestion of a very kind lawyer who said, "Send him a letter telling him that you won't pursue him legally if he just leaves."

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you forfeited money.

John Schwartz:
He was never gonna pay. I was gonna spend more money pursuing this guy in court and the lawyer, very intelligently said, "Don't throw good money after bad. Just see if this is enough of an incentive to get him out." It was and he left. Then we got the next tenants in. Again, just as with the first guy, we did a credit check, looked good. We tried to do eyes open transactions here. The second couple was very nice, but a few months in the woman called me and said, "My husband's left and I can't pay." I said, "Okay. Get out." That's when my father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy."

John Schwartz:
I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy. You need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you. Everything else, you're banking all your other payment. You're living right, but you have this one unsustainable debt, this mortgage." He walked me through the default process.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners here?

John Schwartz:
The first lesson is failure, really crushing failure, as much as it hurts, is not the end of your life. It's not even the end of your financial life. We went through this, more than 20 years ago. You gotta imagine I was devastated by it, but over time we were able to rebuild. Before doing the default, I had been able to get a mortgage on a place in Maryland. So, we had a home that we could not lose.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were smart with your timing. You did this very thoughtfully. You didn't just let it default. You thought, "Okay, before we let this happen, what financial things can we put in order?"

John Schwartz:
Right. How can I fix this to the extent that I can fix it? So, we were in the house. We went through the process on the other place. It was our new beginning and that's the message. That you can take failure and turn it into the next step of your life. In fact, when we sold that house five or six years later, we were able to sell it at twice the purchase price. Now, we bought it, it was a wreck and we really had to fix it up. That's-

Bobbi Rebell:
You put in the work.

John Schwartz:
... sort of the way we do things. We put in the work and we found a place that was seriously underpriced in the market. Largely, because it was such a wreck, but that turned around everything for us. We went from total failure to in a house, to a pretty good success.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love a happy ending. Looking back though are there things that you would have done differently or looking back, it just happened. Would you have not taken the job in Washington had you known what a debacle the New York apartment would be or really, it just happened and this is the way your life is?

John Schwartz:
I think I could have done things more intelligently. The way that I was looking for an apartment was more about feel than really working through the numbers and understanding what I was up against. I didn't know and might have been able to figure out that this apartment, which was part of a co-op conversion was happening in a building where the for rent apartments were not shifting to co-ops quickly enough.

John Schwartz:
One of our big problems was that we couldn't sell it, because banks didn't want to lend money in a down market in an undersubscribed co-op. Now, those were things I only learned after the fact, but wouldn't it have been smart to learn them before putting money down? Research counts. I mean, I do research for a living, right? I do the research and I type.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your job, but not your personal life sometimes. That's what happens to all of us, right?

John Schwartz:
That's right and that's the story of this book. Learning to do for myself what I do in my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of my enjoyment in reading this book was getting some of your little tips in life. Tell me the money tip that you are gonna share with us that everyone can put in place. Hopefully, they're already doing it, but it actually is a money tip even though people may not think of it that way.

John Schwartz:
Okay. If you're ready for this, it's flossing. Now I sound like that dentist from Sesame Street. Could I just say a few words about flossing? Flossing's important not just because it helps keep your gums healthy and all that stuff, it is something that I started to do in my late-20s regularly, after I had a bout with a periodontal condition. I needed a procedure. After that, there was not a day I missed flossing.

John Schwartz:
What flossing does, more than helping your gums, but I'll get back to that. Is that it establishes a daily habit. Establishing daily habits is the foundation stone for all sorts of good things. If you can floss every day, then you can exercise every day, if you can find the time. Then you find how to make the time. If you can exercise every day, maybe you can save a little money.

John Schwartz:
You can show discipline in other parts of your life, but even more than that, your teeth and gums are gonna be healthy. You're gonna have a much smaller chance of running into the kind of mouth problems that I had in my late-20s, which are expensive. Even if you've got insurance, you've got deductible and everything else. It's part of using good habits to prevent, preventable problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
It all goes together. The book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. I love it. Tell our listeners a little bit more about it.

John Schwartz:
Well, it's coming out on April 3rd. It is part guide and part memoir, which is a sort of weird blend, but you know. Reese's put together chocolate and peanut butter and that worked. The idea is that I put my financial life in order by applying research to the problems of my life and the issues that were still undone. Like, I was in my late-50s and I didn't have a will, which is idiotic. I hadn't looked at my retirement to understand whether I was gonna live comfortably, or whether I needed to do more, whether it was a disaster.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you are okay, by the way.

John Schwartz:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoiler alert. You're fine.

John Schwartz:
Yes, spoiler alert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good to hear.

John Schwartz:
Largely because I started putting money away in my 20s. The first time I got a significant raise, I opened a 401k and put the money in. There are no financial secrets in this book, but there are a lot of fundamentals like, start early and make your contributions. These were the lessons that got me through. The idea behind the book is, I would hope that by reading what I went through, people could figure out what they can do too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find you, John?

John Schwartz:
I am on Twitter at @jswatz, J-S-W-A-T-Z. There's a Facebook page for the book, This is The Year Schwartz.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it.

John Schwartz:
It's fun, but the Facebook page is there to talk about the book and for people to talk about their own financial issues. The book is gonna be in stores or you can get it anywhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, I am a huge fan, John Schwartz. I highly recommend everybody read it. It is a page turner, which is not typical of personal finance books. So, definitely everyone check it out. Thank you so much, sir.

John Schwartz:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is my take on what John had to say. Real estate investment glorified in our society, but make no mistake, it is a high stakes proposition and sometimes life and the macro economy gets in the way. Financial Grownup tip number one, buy what you can sell later on. Always think, how will this sell? You can read more in John's book, but in short, that apartment that he bought, because he could afford it, to be fair, was not in a great family neighborhood. He got a good deal, he thought, but when the apartment went for sale in tough times and he needed to sell, it just wasn't selling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Case in point, when my husband and I went to buy our current apartment, there were two identical apartments for sale in the same building, same layout. You get the idea. One was a lot cheaper, like 25% cheaper, a lot. We could have really used the savings, but there was a catch. A giant flashing orange neon parking sign right across the street. You could see it through what would be our son's bedroom window.

Bobbi Rebell:
We rationalized a little bit. Many apartments in New York face brick walls, so this at least was facing open air, just at night there would be this giant flashing parking sign. We could get blackout shades though, right? You know what? We ended up going for the other apartment on a higher floor, not a great view, but an okay view and no parking sign, because we knew that the pull of buyers when we went to sell would be limited even in an upmarket and it could be nonexistent in a downmarket, if we went to sell that apartment where people just would not buy it. Some people, no matter what, they are not buying the apartment with a flashing orange parking sign that would be in their child's room their whole childhood. So, John found out that sometimes an apartment that's a deal, is not really such a deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, don't give up on real estate. John kept at it and had a great experience the second time around. I'm a big believer in owning your own home. The tax breaks are not as good as they used to be, but you're not gonna live in fear of a landlord raising the rent, or simply asking you to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, be sure to check out John's new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. You will learn from John, but you will also laugh along with John. It is a fun and readable memoirish personal finance guide well worth your time. Thank you all for spending a little bit of your day with us. Keep up the great feedback. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1. I hope you enjoy this episode with John Schwartz and that it brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams. 

 

In Paula’s money story you will learn:

-How Paula saved money to travel on a $21,000 salary

-Paula’s strategies to travel on a budget- even when it is not budget travel

-Her side hustles that helped boost her incomes

-The behavioral games she would play to incentivize herself for saving money

-Paula’s strategy to avoid having to delay gratification

-Her specific ‘games’ to make saving fun and rewarding

-Her strategy to travel to places where the cost of living is lower to stick to a $1,000 a month budget. 

In Paula’s lesson you will learn

-How to have a more authentic experience when you travel.

-How to balance saving money with your travel interests

In Paula’s money tip you will learn:

-How to “gamify” saving money

-How to avoid feeling deprived when saving money

-the importance maxing out every retirement account

-How to buy individual stocks without a fee

-How to divert money from your bank account into savings automatically

-How to use Acorns to round up savings when you buy things. 

In my take you will learn:

-Specific resources to "gamify" your finances

-Specific resources to improve your travel experience

EPISODE LINKS

Robinhood

Acorns

Digit

SmartyPig

Qapital

The Points Guy

Scott’s Cheap Flights

Hotel Tonight

Paula’s podcast Afford Anything

Paula’s website Afford Anything

Follow Paula!

Twitter @affordanything

Instagram @paulapant

Facebook Afford Anything

The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn strategies to travel on a budget and how you can balance saving money with your travel interests. #Travel #TravelTips

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Transcription

Paula Pant:
Never delay gratification. I hate the concept of delayed gratification, because if you get into this mindset of, "Oh, my life is going to suck now so that it can be better later," well, later is just going to be disappointing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, let's talk about travel and seeing the world. Authentic travel within a budget, which is not the same as budget travel. One of the top reasons people want to have financial resources is to travel, and that is something a young Paula Pant, the force behind the Afford Anything website and podcast, wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rather than do it through her school, she decided to explore the world on her own terms and her own budget. Her plan, make it a game. Here is Paula Pant. Paula Pant, you are a financial grownup. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

Paula Pant:
I am excited to be here, and I don't think I've ever been called a grownup before.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very much a grownup. Oh my gosh, you have a website and a podcast called Afford Anything, which is sort of everyone's financial fantasy, because we all wish we could afford anything. But as you say, not necessarily all at the same time, right?

Paula Pant:
Exactly. You can afford anything, but not everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best tagline, I love it. All right, so you brought with you a story that has to do with your love of travel, which makes total sense to me, because I love following your Instagram and all of your fantastic photos of you on all of your various adventures, but you didn't always have the money to fund those adventures.

Paula Pant:
That is totally true. Travel has always been a passion of mine. When I was in college, I really wanted to study abroad, but those programs were prohibitively expensive, like 15 to 20 grand for a single semester. I thought about it and I realized, "I don't really want to study, I just want to go abroad."

Paula Pant:
I realized that if I graduated, I worked, I saved up some money, and then I just went off on my own, if I DIY'd it, so to speak, I could do it for like a much cheaper price tag.

Bobbi Rebell:
Without the university as a middleman, basically.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. So that's exactly what I did. I graduated, I started working. Like you, I was a journalist. I became an entry level newspaper reporter at a very small paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where?

Paula Pant:
In Boulder, Colorado. The paper was called the Colorado Daily. It was owned by E.W. Scripps, so it was a part of the Scripps family, but it was the smallest paper, I think, in the Scripps family, and we had a circulation of 40,000. My salary, my starting salary, was $21,000 and this was in 2005.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch.

Paula Pant:
So adjusted for inflation, that's like still pretty close to 21,000. I think I did the inflation adjustment, and that's $26,000 per year in today's dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, we actually have not had that much inflation is the truth of it.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, exactly. Between 2005 and now-

Bobbi Rebell:
The last few years, we really didn't. Thank you, Fed. That's changing, but anyway.

Paula Pant:
So yeah, so I made a starting salary of 21,000 in 2005, and then in 2008, which was when I quit that job, I was earning 31,000 at the time, so that was the highest amount that I made during that three year period, and yet during those three years, I, because I was so interested in traveling, I was saving money as much as I could. In order to do that, I did a couple of things. Number one, was I had a side hustle, and I saved all of the money that came in from that side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the side hustle?

Paula Pant:
Freelance writing. I freelance wrote for both websites and magazines.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they allowed you to do that? That's nice.

Paula Pant:
Oh yeah, yeah. There was no restriction.

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice.

Paula Pant:
My paper had no restriction against me taking on any outside work. I think they probably knew that we all had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I guess they got away with paying you so little because they knew that.

Paula Pant:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, so okay. So you saved a lot from the side hustle, but still. What else did you do?

Paula Pant:
Because so much of finance is behavioral, so much of it is psychological, I would find ways to spend just a little bit less than I otherwise would. For example, I would go to the grocery store and I'd walk around the store, and I'd fill the cart with whatever was on my list, and then at that last moment before going to the checkout aisle, I would take a look at my cart, and I would find two or three things to put back.

Paula Pant:
Orange juice, for example, you know? Because we don't need, quote unquote, "need," orange juice. You can have water and fresh fruit. Or like potato chips, or Oreo cookies, or whatever. I would pick a couple of things, I'd put them back, and then I would figure out how much money I had shaved off my grocery bill by virtue of doing so, and I would literally pull that money out of my wallet and stick it into an envelope that I kept in the glove compartment of my car.

Bobbi Rebell:
Brilliant, I love it.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, so just little things like that forced me to save money, and it kind of turned it into a game a little bit. If you think about a big goal like saving $25,000, that can seem daunting. But if you think about, "All right, I'm at the grocery store. How can I shave 10 bucks off of this trip?" and you do that consistently over time, A, it's fun, because it's a little bit of a game. It's a bit of almost like a detective ... not a detective, sleuth thing, that's not exactly the right analogy, but you know what I mean. It's like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Paula Pant:
Yeah, it's a kind of challenge.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much did you save in those years, if you have kind of an estimate of how much you saved doing those kinds of things, and give us some travel highlights, where you went.

Paula Pant:
In total during those three years, I saved $25,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
On a salary of 31,000 at most.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. And again, I'll emphasize that I was freelancing during the evenings and weekends, and everything that I made from freelancing after taxes went into my travel savings, so that was where the bulk of those savings came from.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where did you travel?

Paula Pant:
I flew at first to Egypt, and I spent six weeks in Egypt. From there to Israel, and then from there I went to Southeast Asia where the dollar exchange rate really worked in my favor. Hanging out in places like Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, places that just have a much lower cost of living, and where the U.S. dollar goes a lot further. That was a big part of how I was able to travel.

Paula Pant:
During that time, I lived on a budget of $1,000 a month, which again, if you're traveling slowly, like if you're not moving around very often, so you're saving money on transit costs, and you're eating local food, you're not going to restaurants, like you're eating street cart food, or things like that, and you're not drinking much alcohol, if any, that's how you can really make your money stretch quite a ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? I mean, obviously we want to be traveling kind of like locals, I guess, is live like locals, don't just stick to the resorts and the resort food, and the hotels and all that stuff, right?

Paula Pant:
Yeah, exactly. Have a more authentic experience. If you're going to go to all of the trouble of going all the way out to Myanmar, then why would you stay at a four star hotel, if instead you could have a very authentic conversation with somebody there who has just a roadside, street side little ... I can't even call it a café, that's too fancy of a word. Just a little tin ... you know, a couple of pieces of corrugated tin under which they have a little stove through which they can cook you some food.

Paula Pant:
It's a much more real experience. It's just much more authentic, and the fact that it saves money is I think, also a bonus. But don't do everything for the sake of saving money, do it because it gives you an authentic experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something that people can put to work right away. Maybe let's stick to the gamification theme, because that's fun. I like playing money games, because you don't even feel bad when you're saving money. It actually makes you feel good, like you're winning.

Paula Pant:
Exactly. A big part of my philosophy is never delay gratification. I hate the concept of delayed gratification, because if you get into this mindset of, "Oh, my life is going to suck now so that it can be better later," well, later is just going to be disappointing.

Paula Pant:
I'm a big fan of when you're saving money, gamify it, have fun with it. When I tell the story of going to a grocery store, and then right before checkout putting the orange juice back, that was not an act of deprivation, that was a fun challenge, like it was a game that allowed me to save. You could think of it as like scoring points on the leaderboard.

Paula Pant:
I continue to do the same thing today. I want to put as much money into investments today as I possibly can. My core investing strategy is of course, max out every retirement account that I'm eligible to contribute to. Those are like my core strategies, and through those, I put money in an index funds. On top of that, I have this app, it's called Robinhood, that allows you to buy individual stocks fee free.

Paula Pant:
Through Robinhood, I will put extra money into individual stock picking. Now, this is not my core investment strategy whatsoever. This is just extra money. It's money I otherwise would have spent on beer and shoes that instead, I kind of think of making it an in-app purchase in a game. I'm playing this game, and if my budget to play this game is $100 a month, that's the cost of like maybe a fun night out.

Paula Pant:
So for me, instead of having that quote unquote, "Fun night out on the town," I put that money into a game that I'm playing on my phone, and I'm buying some individual stocks that I think are kind of fun. Well, that's a way to put more money into investments than I otherwise would. So that's my money tip, is gamify it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there other apps that you like to incorporate that are also kind of on the game theme?

Paula Pant:
Sure, yeah. There's an app called Digit, and that's more of an automated system, so you link it up to your bank account, and it will divert really small sums of money, like three bucks here, four bucks there, into a separate account that then accumulates into a pretty substantial amount of savings over time. That's kind of a fun little automated, gamey sort of way to save more, to hide some savings from yourself.

Paula Pant:
There's another one called Acorns that rounds up every purchase that you make, so if you buy something for $7.36, it will round that up to eight bucks, and put the change into a separate account. It's like another way to gamify it a little bit. Any way that you can take care of the margins in a way that's fun, it's a way to make compounding work in your favor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, great. Paula Pant, you are so much fun. Where can people find out more about you, and follow you, and of course, hear more about your podcast Afford Anything?

Paula Pant:
Sure, well as you mentioned, the podcast is called Afford Anything, and you can find it wherever finer podcasts are sold. So yeah, just head to your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, or Overcast, or Stitcher, and just search for the Afford Anything podcast. Then you can also find me on the web at affordanything.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social media handles?

Paula Pant:
Oh, on Twitter I am @AffordAnything. On Facebook I am Afford Anything, and on Instagram I've broken the pattern. Instagram I'm @PaulaPant, so that's P-A-U-L-A P-A-N-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Putting yourself out there, Paula Pant. Thank you so much. You're so wonderful, and thank you for coming on.

Paula Pant:
Oh, thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you take out of your grocery cart to save a little money? I know I have a bad habit of throwing extra things into the cart that I was not originally planning on buying, except unlike Paula, I usually don't take them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's do Financial Grownup tip number one, listen to Paula. Gamification of good money habits works. Money is psychological, and little wins can inspire us to keep going when we get that positive reinforcement. You can go totally retro and just put your spare change in a jar and watch it add up, or you can use apps like Paula mentioned, including Acorns, Digit, and Robinhood.

Bobbi Rebell:
Other names to help you save and feel like you're playing a game and reward good money habits include Qapital, that's with a Q, Qapital. You get rewarded for things like working out. SmartyPig, which helps you set up little piggy banks for different things. By the way, just so you guys know, I have no financial affiliation at this time with any of those names, and I will always let you know if I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be strategic with your travel, and do what's right for you. I am not a big fan of street food the way that Paula is, and I don't want everyone to feel like they have to travel quite that lean, but if you do want to go the higher end route, put the time in to looking into what the right resources are before you put your money in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the Points Guy blog, for example. There are great travel deals, and ideas, and even things at the higher end to help you save money. Another website for deals is Scott's Cheap Flights. If you are willing to wait close to your trip, or in some cases, and I've done this, when you're already on your trip, I've had some great experiences with the app Hotel Tonight. I also think there is great value in literally asking friends, and neighbors, and even virtual friends in Facebook groups that have something in common with you, for their recommendations. Happy travels.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast and all that good stuff, and thank you in advance to any of you who will now take the time to review it on iTunes or Apple Podcasts, as it is now known.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear from you guys. Follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Leave me comments as well. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter, so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show. Paula's story has inspired me to start traveling more, so maybe send me some suggestions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I go? Not just for business. If she's inspired you, let me know that as well. Where are you guys traveling? I hope you got some great takeaways from Paula. I certainly did, as you heard, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.