Being wealthy is often a state of mind. Learn how to gain perspective and feel rich- no matter what your bank account says from Entrepreneur, New York Times best-selling author and Side Hustle School podcast host Chris Guillebeau. Plus a preview of his latest book: The Money Tree. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Guillebeau:
Yes, a tour of the culinary landscape. Six year old Chris, when people would ask me, "What do you want to do when you grow up?" Other people were like, "I want to be the president. I want to be a basketball player," and at the age of six Burger King was my favorite restaurant. My parents were split up. My dad would pick me up on Wednesdays and go to Burger King. So I would say I want to work at Burger King, and I thought it would be like the greatest place in the world.

Chris Guillebeau:
So obviously I grew up, and I realized, "Okay, not the greatest place to work," but even as a teenager I kept eating there. Because that was the habit of the time. I thought, "One day if I have enough money to be able to go and eat at Burger King or whatever fast food place every day, then I will be rich. Then I'll be well off. I don't have to think about it. I can just go. If I want to get an extra apple pie," whatever it is.

Chris Guillebeau:
Then of course I kind of grow up and do other stuff. I was an aid worker for four years in West Africa. I'd always kind of worked for myself from the age of 19; I'd learned various little entrepreneurial projects selling things online and such. So I did the aid worker stuff, and then I had a project of going to every country in the world, started blogging about it. It turned into this whole unexpected author career and so on.

Chris Guillebeau:
At a certain point, I realized there was this moment when I was traveling in Hong Kong, which is one of my favorite places in the world, and I was at the W Hotel. Because of my hotel status, because I stay in hotels all the time, they give me free breakfast. It's a very elaborate breakfast, incredible buffet, and they also cook things to order and such. The price, if you have to pay for it, is like $35 or something.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a lot for breakfast.

Chris Guillebeau:
It is a lot for breakfast, you know? I remember sitting there and thinking, "Okay [inaudible 00:05:17]. It's a lot for breakfast for sure. I'm glad I don't have to pay for it, but you know what? If I did have to pay for it, then I could." I could pay for it, and I would say, "Oh, you know what? That's an expensive breakfast," but I would still be able to pay for it. I thought, "This is how I know that I've made it," essentially. The fact that if I want to have a nice breakfast, I can do so.

Chris Guillebeau:
I thought about that a lot because if you understand for yourself what makes you feel well off, what makes you feel rich, maybe you realize that that thing is not as inaccessible as you thought. Especially if it is something that's somewhat obtainable. So it just helped me have some perspective as I've traveled and done different things throughout my life since.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like throughout your life you have goals, but it's also okay for those goals and aspirations to adjust to where you are. They do change.

Chris Guillebeau:
Of course. Absolutely. I think people sometimes hold off on setting a big goal or making a commitment because of that fear of change. Because they think, "Well, what if I change my mind?" I always think, "Well, if you change your mind then you change your mind." You change your mind because you get experience, because you learn, you gain wisdom. And so maybe you realize the other thing that I wanted to do is a little bit different, or maybe that was the thing I wanted to do for a while, and that was fine. But now because of what I've learned and experienced, I want to do something different. But if you don't commit in the first place and pursue that goal, then you'll never get to that spot.

Bobbi Rebell:
It almost reminds me of when we all have sort of that number in our head that's sort of our safety number where I'll feel secure at this number. It's always changing.

Chris Guillebeau:
Right. That's like a whole different thing. Right? Because it always goes up. It never goes down, does it? You know what I mean?

Bobbi Rebell:
No, it never does go down.

Chris Guillebeau:
Right. So that's why it's like you have to really think about not just what is the number but, "What is the life that I want to have? How do I create that life?" Because ultimately, there's always somebody with more money or whatever the metric is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. The metrics change, basically. What you perceive as someone that's wealthy is going to change. But there's always going to be, in my mind, someone who is wealthier than you.

Chris Guillebeau:
Of course. Well, there always will be in reality. Not just in your mind. That leads to a whole other thing about, "What is happiness? What is purpose? Why are we doing all this stuff?" Of course we want to make more money, but it ultimately needs to be grounded to a greater purpose or else we won't actually be that happy.

“You have to really think about not just what is the number but what is the life that I want to have. How do I create that life? Because ultimately there is always somebody with more money or whatever the metric is.”

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Guillebeau:
I think maybe it comes down to knowing yourself, knowing yourself and what are your goals. What are you working towards? What is important to you, and how are you going to make that happen? And how are you going to, as we said earlier, adjust as you go along and be willing to change your mind. I'm a work in progress like everybody, but I just keep doing stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. And it's okay to course correct. We're all human, we all change. Circumstances change, and it's okay for our goals and aspirations to change. But one thing that I think we will agree on is many people could always use an extra few bucks, and that's one of the things that you cover in The Money Tree, including a challenge. We're going to do a little bit of a spoiler. One of the characters is challenged by a mentor to make $1,000 in a week, which is extreme.

“The number one thing is not so much cutting back. It is increasing your income. ”

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Guillebeau:
My philosophy, and what I'm trying to teach with the book, is you can have a good job and still be under the water. You can still be struggling. Especially if you have debt. So many people have debt related to student loans, or credit cards, or all kinds of things. So you can be a hard worker, but you're not actually going to get ahead just through budget, or just through being frugal, or cutting back on your lattes or whatever.

Chris Guillebeau:
The number one thing I think most people need to do, especially young people coming into the job market for the first time but really anyone who's struggling, the number one thing is not so much cutting back, it's increasing your income. And so that's why in the book, the story of the guy Jake who is a hard worker, has a good job, but struggling with debt. It's affecting the whole rest of his life, his relationships, his job, and so on. So he gets this challenge, "Okay Jake, make $1,000 in the next week."

Chris Guillebeau:
At first he's like, "Well, if I knew how to do that I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now." Essentially what he learns to do, at least at first, is the art of reselling, buying and reselling stuff. He begins with selling stuff that's just in his closet, basically his economics textbook from college. This is what I did 21 years ago, if I go back to the dark ages of my self employment history. I sold stuff on eBay. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have a degree in that. It's like I had a degree in sociology.

Chris Guillebeau:
Just selling things online, learning to buy stuff from a flea market, or a yard sale, or from another online source. Then selling it somewhere else like this arbitrage effect. It felt so, so empowering to me. I kind of recreated that in the story The Money Tree as like this guy has to buy and resell $1,000 worth of items over the next week, and then from there he learns and goes on to do other stuff.

Chris Guillebeau:
I think this is like ... It's not like everybody should go out and become a professional reseller. I'm not saying that, but if you're looking for something that's practical. If you're looking for like, "Oh, I need to actually make money next week. I need to actually do something in a very short period of time," then I think that's a good path to look at. Maybe from there, you'll get some confidence, you'll get some experience to go on to do something bigger and better from there.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Bobbi Rebell:
adapting the definition of wealthy for yourself is part of becoming a financial grownup, and going through different life phases, and it's okay for your lifestyle to change as you go through those life stages. So for example, I remember my first full-time paycheck as a news associate at CNBC right out of college, first real full full-time job. I'd been making minimum wage, part-time jobs, and so on, but now I had a big paycheck, full-time. I felt so rich for about a minute. Just like Chris, as I moved up and got raises, my lifestyle changes, my expectations for what I wanted to buy changed, and so did my definition of feeling rich. That's perfectly normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Look, there are a lot of people that will tell you, "Don't upgrade your lifestyle at all," but that's not always realistic. There's some happy medium there. At least, that's what I think. So it's also good to do what Chris does and remember how little it took to feel rich at one time in your life so that you can adapt. Also, you can appreciate your accomplishments.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Bobbi Rebell:
let's all get rid of stuff that we now realize we truly, and I mean truly, do not need. Look at what we're living with these days. So much less. While it's sad and frustrating that for many of us our world is smaller, and hopefully this is a temporary thing, a very temporary thing. The truth is, we're also learning in this temporary time, I'm going to go with that, what really matters.

Bobbi Rebell:
My family moved out of the city to self quarantine in a more rural area. We didn't have a lot of room. We each got to take just a little bit of stuff, and we're okay. We thought we'd go back and get more. I'm not sure we're going to be able to, but I'm not sure it really matters. We just don't need so much stuff.

Episode Links:

• Chris’ website - www.chrisguillebeau.com

• Chris’ Book - The Money Tree

Follow Chris!

• Twitter - @chrisguillebeau

• Facebook - @chrisguillebeau

• Instagram - @93countries

• LinkedIn - @chrisguillebeau

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

TPG’s Executive Editorial Director Scott Mayerowitz joins Bobbi to answer the top questions he’s being asked about the travel business during the Coronavirus crisis. 

Your Top Coronavirus Questions Answered

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the executive editorial director at The Points Guy, so the perfect person for us to come to with all of our travel questions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to those, tell us what's going on at TPG?

Scott Mayerowitz:
We've just been so busy. A lot of people right now are in this cancel, cancel, cancel mode, and trying to figure out how to change trips, or cancel them. We've been guiding them through that, there are a lot of questions about elite status. Then, some of us, the most optimistic, are already looking towards those late spring, early summer trips, hopeful that we can book, but just a little bit fearful. So, we've been really busy, just helping people through this whole process.

Bobbi Rebell:
You personally, you're grounded? You're coming to me, from your home.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yeah, I'm coming to you from the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I had canceled a trip to Texas for work the other week, and I just today ended up having to cancel my May 1st trip to Portugal. I was holding on for the last second, but today was the day to get my miles back, and I decided to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How far ahead are you personally canceling plans, Scott?

Scott Mayerowitz:
The May 1st trip to Portugal was the only one I needed to get rid of. I have a summer family trip in August to Aruba, hopefully that will go ahead, but who knows? Right now, what I'm actually doing is I'm using my miles and my elite status to book a lot of things with flexibility, so using miles to book flights. I've got Bermuda, and the Bahamas booked. I'm actually thinking of nesting some trips together, just in June, to hold them with the hope that I can take at least one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean, nesting some trips together?

Scott Mayerowitz:
So, I would put together the weekend of June 6th, a trip. I would book another one, for the following weekend, and one for the following weekend. Hopefully, one of those trips will actually come together, in the end. But, I'm doing fully refundable bookings right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are more expensive, in general. How are flight prices, then? I mean, my gut would say they're dirt cheap, but then again, are they more expensive because there are so few flights?

Scott Mayerowitz:
What I'm seeing there is there's so many schedule changes, you can see great flights. Someone the other day was telling me they saw $114 from New York to San Francisco, for the peak of summer, compared to $400, which is a normal peak summer fare.

Scott Mayerowitz:
The catch with all these, the airlines are giving you a lot of flexibility, but you're not going to get cash back. What you're going to get is a voucher, that's only valid from a year of booking. So, if you book something on March 25th, you have to use that voucher by next year. I have elite status with airlines, so I'm booking on miles, because I can redeposit those miles, for no penalty, back into my account and just cancel a trip.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that would be advice for people, if you are booking travel ahead, use miles?

Scott Mayerowitz:
If you have elite status, especially because then you don't have to pay the redeposit fees. If you don't have status, it's like $75 to redeposit, it may or may not be worth it. The flexible cash tickets right now are really good, as long as you know that you're going to get a voucher, not actual cash back, so hopefully within the next year, you can use that voucher if you have to change your plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now, let's get to some of the questions that we had planned to go over, these are questions that you're getting from a lot of your TPG followers. The first one was, and we've already touched on this, airline elite status.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are airlines doing?

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yeah, it's kind of amazing. The folks at The Points Guy keep writing into us and saying, "How is my elite status going to be affected?" All the airlines are saying, "We understand this is an issue, that you are grounded for three, maybe four months, you can't fly as often as you want to, to get your elite status." Right now, some of them are doing some cuts.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Like British Airways is doing a 30% reduction, for all of its members on tier status and basically saying, "Here's the new threshold, good luck with this. Hopefully, we can get you there." They're all doing extensions of any vouchers, or companion tickets that might be out there. US Airlines haven't yet pulled the trigger on this. They are, I think, waiting to see how big the fallout is going to be for them, and just how long the pain is going to continue. But, I would look to see, probably, a 20, 30, even 40 percent reduction in what the qualifications are for elite status for airlines.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, let's also turn to the second question you're being asked, which is the hotels. What are the hotels doing for their elite status customers?

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yeah, here's it's a little trickier because we're seeing all sorts of different policies out there. Similar, there have been a few where its been 25% reduction in the qualifications. Others are not even talking about this, yet.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Hilton has, actually, one of the most generous policies. They basically said, "If you have elite status right now, we're going to give you another year, for free." Even if you don't have to travel, they're going to extend the status out for another year, they're doing the same with their free night certificates, any other vouchers that people will have. That is, by far, the most generous program that we've seen, to date. Hilton is in a battle with Marriott, they want to win over a lot of people who weren't happy with the merger of Marriott and Starwood, so they're coming out first with this policy, and trying to be as pro-consumer as possible. I give them a lot of credit for this, I think this is one of the best things that we've seen any airline or hotel do, and I hope others will follow.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do people need to do anything proactive with both the airlines and hotels, to get these? Or, is it just going to be automatically put on their account?

Scott Mayerowitz:
It should be automatically put on accounts, but one of the things that I always say is keep very close eye on all your accounts, and make sure you're getting what you're due.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go back to talk about the airlines. How are domestic airlines handling cancellation? This is for just everybody, not just the elite people. And, talk about flight waivers?

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yeah. Flight waivers keep changing, as the cancellations keep going out. There's a lot of flexibility right now, that if you have future travel, you can go ahead and get a voucher that you can use within a year of your purchase date to travel.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Let me just explain that. Let's say you were going on vacation April 15th, and you had a ticket purchased back in January, and you decide that you want to get a voucher for that. That is good only until next January, so it's one year from the date of you actually purchasing the ticket. A lot of people just need to be aware of that.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Others want their cash back, they don't want these vouchers. What I would say there is hold onto that ticket, be patient. The airline is probably going to cancel your flight on you, and once they cancel that flight, then you are legally entitled to get a cash back for it. Watch carefully, the schedules, and as soon as they cancel it, then you can get cash instead of a voucher.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much wiggle room is there if you call? Have the agents been given more latitude, in terms of how much they can accommodate customers, when you call a customer service line?

Scott Mayerowitz:
Not tons, airlines are desperate for the cash so they're trying to upsell you into vouchers. I've been hearing a lot of, if you ask for a refund they're going to say, "We can do that, but are you interested in a voucher instead?" They might add 20% extra value onto that. So, some people can come out ahead, if you definitely know that you're going to fly that same airline, and within one year of the ticket purchase. You're getting an extra 20% bonus there, you could use that for a trip that is hopefully discounted, given all that's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. There's negotiability, in terms of the value of your voucher. And maybe there's negotiability, you tell me, on that date? Because, what if you purchased your tickets very far in advance for a big trip, and the trip is a month away? But, you purchased it 11 months ago, that doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room from the purchase date. Is there negotiability there, just being reasonable?

Scott Mayerowitz:
It doesn't hurt to ask, but that's one that the airlines, traditionally, have not budged on, and that's where you're going to run into your headaches, especially for those trips that you booked a while ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then, you want to be watching for that flight to be canceled?

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are flying conditions changing right now? I got a notice from an airline today, talking about their social distancing efforts, because planes are notoriously ... We're squeezed in there so tight, how do they, then ... I mean, I guess it's happening naturally, that so many people aren't showing up for flights, but what's it like to actually fly, for people that are flying? The few and far between, and I guess far between literally, in between their seats.

Scott Mayerowitz:
Yeah, if we talk about airline occupancy, about a year ago you had about 89, 90 percent of all seats filled on planes. What I'm hearing from the industry sources right now is you're looking at 10, maybe 11 percent of seats filled, across the entire system. There are plenty of flights where there are just completely empty planes out there. Some that they'll run, some that they'll cancel. There are tales of airlines actually booking the middle seat, when you book a seat, to actually create that social distancing.

Scott Mayerowitz:
The TSA is saying 85 to 90 percent of the passengers that normally come through its checkpoints aren't coming through. You're seeing cases in airports like New York and LA, where they're actually closing terminals. So, you don't have a TSA checkpoint, you basically have empty airports.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's because so many of us are staying home, okay. We love to travel, what can we do to satisfy our travel bug, literally from the couch?

Scott Mayerowitz:
This is one of the great things about technology, is everybody has been doing virtual tours, or YouTube videos, where they're guiding you through their museum, zoo, aquarium, theme park, whatever it is. I've been amazed at this. We've been watching some of the Cincinnati Zoo videos with my daughter. All the major museums, art galleries, natural history ones, are doing virtual tours. Disney World is letting you actually ride all of its rides, through these great videos that they've put together.

Scott Mayerowitz:
I could go on and on about the list, between national parks, state parks, places like the Biltmore in Asheville, North Carolina, they've all come out with these amazing virtual tours, to keep you entertained.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we can find those through your website?

Scott Mayerowitz:
We have a story up on ThePointsGuy.com of some of our favorites, and then any institution that you want to visit has a link on their home page, too. But, we've curated a list at The Points Guy, of our favorite virtual tours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last question. I want to end talking about good things. Tell us, how will the travel industry come back from this?

Scott Mayerowitz:
This is one that's going to take a while for the industry to really become much more profitable, but for travelers, they're going to be fighting for us to come stay at the hotel, so this will be a renaissance of deals, earning points and miles, and we'll guide you through all of those.

Scott Mayerowitz:
But I think it's also going to change the way we travel. I've been, for two weeks, with my wife and daughter, in our Manhattan apartment. We go out for a daily walk, and keep our social distance, but that's about it. I'm an extrovert, I love to travel, and I always love talking with people. But, I think now, I'm going to look at my travel very differently. Yeah, I'll probably still go and sit on the beach at some luxury resort, but I'm going to want more experiences where I get to learn from other people and interact, because that's really what we're craving.

Scott Mayerowitz:
As much as I love my family, and I do, I want to get out, and meet other people, and have actual conversations. I think you're going to see people, around the globe, missing that connection, and really changing the way that we travel, in the coming months and years.

Episode Links:

• Scott Mayerowitz's website - www.thepointsguy.com

Follow Scott!

• Instagram - @globetrotscott

• Twitter - @GlobeTrotScott

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Pre-coronavirus we joked with Dumpster Doggy Blog’s Amanda Holden about her decision to upsize her life and move to New York City, and all the ridiculous expenses that were becoming part of her new NYC life. 

Amanda’s Money Story:

Amanda Holden:
I just made the move. I came out to New York City alone. I've never lived on the East Coast before. I moved from Portland, Oregon, and so it was a super big change, but one that I had started thinking about probably about a little bit more than a year, a year and a half, two years ago as something that I wanted to do. And so I saved up my money. I built up my business. I waited until I was ready and then I moved out here for no reason other than I wanted to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Tell me more about what the change was like financially.

Amanda Holden:
Sure. So I did market research on rent prices and then also just normal cost of goods, groceries, also sales tax. I moved from a state that didn't have sales tax, so everything is going to be automatically about 10% more expensive in New York City, so taking that into account as well. And what I did, and this is not necessarily what everybody has to do, but what I did is I wanted to make sure that I had a year's worth of rent saved and a year's worth of my business taxes saved. So I actually saved quite a bit of money in cash before making the transition, knowing that it's really hard to understand how expensive it's going to be to live in a city until you're actually doing it yourself.

Amanda Holden:
I asked friends and I can hear from them, but they live different lives than I do and so what I spend money on is not what they spend money on. I knew that some of it's a guessing game and just getting to a point where I had a big enough cushion that I felt comfortable doing so was essentially all that I did. And I'm really lucky in that I am extremely light on my feet. It's just me. I moved with literally two suitcases and I'm not even exaggerating, and that just makes it really easy as well. If I need to pick up and leave and go back, then I can certainly do that, which helped give me some flexibility as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about what was as you expected financially and what surprised you financially moving to a bigger city and a more expensive city?

Amanda Holden:
Bobbi, every single cocktail here cost at least $18.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's not bad. 18 sounds about right. Definitely, you can go more.

Amanda Holden:
It's truly terrible. So I moved from Portland, Oregon, but I also lived in California for the majority of my adult life. I was in school in L.A. and then working in investment management in San Francisco. Which is an expensive city.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's an expensive city.

Amanda Holden:

It's not cheap there either. No, it's not. But when I was there, the years that I was there, I left actually in 2013, which is crazy that it was so long ago, you could absolutely, the bars I went to, you could absolutely walk in and get a whiskey soda for $6 or $7. At least the places that I was going to. But in New York city, I don't think that I quite expected that my fun budget was going to need grow by more than double because Portland is a really cheap uneasy place to drink. And so that has been a surprise. Obviously, I'm paying more in rent, but there's some other things where I feel like I'm saving money. I don't have a car here. I had a car in Portland, and so that's nice. I love being able to walk. I love living in a walking city. I love public transportation.

Amanda Holden:

That's been really great to not have to have my car and so after it all shakes out, yeah, I'm definitely spending more money here, but I'm also just pretty naturally good at sticking to a spending plan and even in a more expensive city, I do a pretty good job of saving.

Bobbi Rebell:

One thing that a former guest here on Financial Grownup said, Barbara Corcoran, she talked about the fact that she liked having a little bit of a fire under her because it made her want to earn more. And she says it works, that needing to have more money to live the life you want actually motivated her successfully to earn more money. What do you think about that? Do you think that being here has helped your business because you want to do all the things, you want to be able to go have that $18 cocktail, if you want it?

Amanda Holden:

Absolutely. I think that's absolutely a driver and maybe even more than that, just being surrounded by people who are doing and who are ambitious and who are trying to squeeze every last drop out of life and it's not like people in Portland aren't doing that, people in Portland are absolutely doing that, I know some of the most wonderful and creative people there, but the pace of life is certainly slower. And so there's just a different cadence to being in New York City that I think helps and it's energizing and I feel very alive here. Man, nothing like walking through the streets of Manhattan and getting an umbrella right into the eye to really make you feel alive when you're here. Yeah, that's definitely a motivating factor.

Bobbi Rebell:

Looking back, are there things that you in retrospect would have done a little bit differently in terms of the preparation to basically up-size your lifestyle? I mean, it's just a more expensive place to live.

Amanda Holden:

I think that doing the saving is doing the work. Coming with some sort of financial cushion was imperative to me moving without taking on a whole bunch of financial anxiety, because I could see having a bunch of financial anxiety. If I was to do one thing differently, I probably would have worked on creating some more passive income streams before I got here, not only because having a passive income stream is really helpful, but also because the cost of building out something like, let's say, a video course or something like that is going to be much cheaper to create in Portland than it is going to be in New York.

“There’s just a different cadence to being in New York City ...  it’s energizing and I feel very alive here.”

Amanda’s Money Lesson:

Amanda Holden:

I think that the lesson here is that if you have a financial goal, it is worthy and you don't have to listen to what anybody else says your financial goal should be, but just make a picture of it in your head, make a bank account to match it, and then just hit that goal hard. I'm a firm believer in the value of really conceptualizing your goals and really thinking about it often, like, whatever, put it on your mood board, I don't use Pinterest, but put it on your Pinterest, whatever it is, and working towards that specific goal because it is so much more motivating than if you have just some random savings account that you're just putting money into with no particular goal in mind.

Bobbi Rebell:

Did you have deadline and a specific amount of money and work back from there?

Amanda Holden:

Well, really my deadline was earlier this year doing my taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Amanda Holden:

And so I had an idea of how much I would owe in taxes. Last year was my first full year self employed doing my own business and so I had an idea of what I would owe in taxes. But you always kind of are like, "Well, until I actually do it, I could be way off. Am I going to owe $1000 or am I going to owe $40000? Where is it going to fall?" And so luckily once I did my taxes, I hired a CPA to do my taxes for the first year, I found out that I owed exactly what I expected and so therefore I had enough cushion where I was like, "Okay," I told myself this was my deadline. If I kept my cushion and didn't pay it all to self employed taxes, that I would move to New York City.

Amanda Holden:

And actually one of my good friends, I don't know if you know Emma Pattie, but Emma in Portland, she, on tax day, literally looked at me and she's like, "So are you moving to New York City?"

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh.

Amanda Holden:

I know, and I was like, "Oh, I guess I did say that, didn't I? Yeah, I guess I should go. I guess I should go now."

Bobbi Rebell:

We love accountability. Accountability is everything.

Amanda Holden:

I know. I was like, "Dang, I forgot I had said that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes, tell people things. That's one of my favorite tips, is actually telling people because then you have more ownership and accountability.

“If you have a financial goal, it is worthy and you don’t have to listen to what anybody else says your financial goal should be”

Amanda’s Money Tip:

Amanda Holden:

So my everyday money tip, if you found $300 to spend at Target, then I encourage you to consider that you have money that you can also invest in a company like Target or invest in companies in general, invest in yourself and in your future,

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. So take whatever budget you were going to spend wherever you were going to go shopping and instead shop for the stock of that company. But make sure it's a good investment too. Don't just buy blind leave. We don't want to tell you to do that, of course.

Amanda Holden:

Right, right. And this is just an example.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. But I love the analogy because when you rethink it and you approach something differently, wait, I was going to spend $300 on groceries for my very large family at Whole Foods, maybe I can spend less and invest the extra in Whole Foods. Not necessarily recommending that investment, but the idea is there.

“I’m a firm believer in the value of really conceptualizing your goals and really thinking about it often”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

I love that Amanda's friend Emma held her accountable. Accountability is a great tool to use. Without it, I know I would not have accomplished many things in life, so however that works for you, tell a friend about a goal and give them permission to check in with you on your progress, and yes, to hold you accountable.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Let's talk about risk tolerance. It's being tested for a lot of us right now. Amanda took a huge risk uprooting her life and moving into a more, let's say, financially challenging city. Given the economic chaos we are all now seeing with the impact of the coronavirus, was it a mistake? I say no. We make the best decisions for ourselves based on the information and the goals we have at that time.

Episode Links:

• Amanda's website - www.dumpsterdogblog.com

Follow Amanda!

• Instagram - @dumpster.doggy

• Twitter - @dumpsterdoggy

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur coach Cait Scudder built a 6 figure business while living abroad overcoming numerous obstacles. She shares her specific strategies to help build a grownup business focused on sustainable product growth and revenue streams. 

5 essential ways to create a successful business

Cait Scudder:
Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here and I'm so excited to be talking about this. I think for so many entrepreneurs, creating a successful business, whether you're running it from a laptop or abroad or whether you're running it out of your living room, feels like it's this enigmatic thing. So, I'm really excited to break down some really tangible steps to help your listeners apply it to their own businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm a little bit of a snob about this. I don't like all this mumbo jumbo. You are specific, and focused, and I love that. So, you've got five tips and then we have some other special stuff after this. So, stick with us, guys. Number one is basically, figure out the problem that you're going to solve for people, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, the first thing I would say if you are looking to build a six-figure business, and scale it to multiple six figures and beyond, is you have to be so crystal clear on the problem that you help people solve. It is not enough to just say, "Well, I want to be a consultant for leaders" or "I want to be a health coach" or whatever other niche that you're in. Dial that right in to get so specifically clear on the problem that you help your clients solve and how you do that with the solution that you offer.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what would be an example of a client that had this problem and how do they really figure out what problem they were solving for?

Cait Scudder:
So, one of the exercises that I lead my clients through, let's take a health-coaching coach, for example. If you are looking to build out a health-coaching business, somebody who helps their clients achieve either weight loss or higher levels of energy, the problem that you might help somebody solve is losing 15 pounds or losing 20 pounds. What you need to do if you want to dial that right in and then be able to build a compelling brand and a compelling message from that is, get super clear. Not only on that problem point as if it's a bullet point in your notebook, but what's the pain that somebody is experiencing as a result of having that problem? So, one of the things that I think happens a lot is entrepreneurs get stuck in this messaging spiral of, well, I'm listing out my client's problems, but they're not responding.

Cait Scudder:
I think the biggest thing that happens when we do that is that we're not actually speaking to the pain, the ripple effect pain I call it, that those problems caused. So, for example, if a client is struggling with low energy, they're feeling overweight, they're feeling not confident in their bodies, how is that actually playing out in their lives? Maybe they can't walk up the stairs without running out of breath. Maybe they can't bend over to pick up their grandchild and not feel like they have to sit down. So, really dialing your messaging straight in to the problem that you help people solve. The pain that it's going to help them get out of in painting the picture and creating offers that help somebody do that in a step-by-step way is such a powerful step for your business and for your marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your second tip, which is to figure out what exactly the offer is.

Cait Scudder:
Exactly. So, the second thing that you need to do is build out an offer. I always say to my clients, especially who offer their services, so consultants, any kind of strategists is, it's very, very important to be able to build a product in your client's mind as if it were a tangible product that you could put on top of your desk. So, if you're offering a six-month consultancy package or a retainer offer, what does that look like? What's the result that somebody is going to get? And the way that you want to think about your offers is in two different pieces. The first is the framework, and the second are the features. So, your framework might look like, for example, in my business coaching consultancy, I have a framework that's based on three different things: energy, strategy, and sales. When you can nail all three of those as a business owner, you are golden.

Cait Scudder:
So, the energy piece is, what does your vibe put out? How are you attracting your ideal client, how you are attracting your audience. The second piece of strategy is, what are the offers that you're building out? How are we marketing you in a way that is magnetic in a way that draws your people in? And thirdly, in sales, obviously, we need to make sales if we're going to be in business. So, what I really recommend entrepreneurs to do if they're struggling to build out an offer, is think about what's the framework that you move somebody through and what are the features? How long is your package for? What does it include? What's the scope of work? And when you can be so specifically clear on the process that you move somebody through, the framework, and the way that you do that in the tangible breakdown, the features, that's when you really have a rock-solid offer to bring to the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third thing is something I am so uncomfortable with myself, get comfortable with marketing. It is so hard, Cait. I feel this personally.

Cait Scudder:
Really, Bobbi? You're definitely not alone. And I have to be honest, at the beginning when I started my business, I felt so uncomfortable with it. I felt like, "Hang on, squawking about all of this stuff that I do for other people like this is so uncomfortable." Here's what I've come to see it as. When you are marketing your services or your products or your free content even, because let's be real, promoting a podcast or promoting a blog article, all of that is marketing. You are educating and you are empowering your audience with pieces of content, with pieces of information, and pieces of education that help them move towards a result. And I think that when you can have that internal shift as an entrepreneur from, "Oh, this is so self-indulgent. Who would want to read about this? This is so self-aggrandizing." And really flip that script to say, "Hey, me showing up and waving this flag loud and proud is helping somebody else who's seeing this achieve a result," and that is such an empowered place both for you and for your audience.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fourth one, also a pain point for me, confidence in selling. I always struggle with this, Cait. I really do.

Cait Scudder:
You know what? I hear you and especially for women, Bobbi, I personally think that we are not necessarily taught to move into a sales conversation or move into a sales context, with the same level of permission and confidence that for whatever reason I feel like men just intrinsically feel. I'm sure that's not the case for everybody, but I definitely know so many women who struggle with this piece.

Cait Scudder:
Here's my take on this. When you sell somebody your product or your service, you are giving them the pathway to a solution. If you don't sell, if you don't speak about what your offer is, if you never let somebody know how they can work with you and what's possible as a result, you are literally robbing from them the possibility for getting that result and you helping them. And I think when you really flip that script and look at, "Hang on, this is not just some selfish manipulative, greasy car salesman tactic. This is me showcasing the possibility that somebody has to achieve this solution with me." You really put yourself in the game, and you give your market confidence to buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the fifth thing is, be consistent.

Cait Scudder:
That is absolutely right. I think that there is no... One of the best pieces of advice, Bobbi, that I've ever been given in entrepreneurship is, don't get too high and don't get too low. When it comes to being your own boss and running things your own way, creating your own schedule, running your own team, there's so many opportunities to get knocked off your horse to feel like you just want to throw in the towel and crawl back into bed and you just don't want to do it. And that is the biggest thing that I think swipes entrepreneurs off their path is, feeling like I had a good day, I want to show up, had a bad day, I don't want to show up. Guys, if you take one thing away from this, let it be this. You are going to have great days. You're going to have hard days. It's your commitment to staying the course. That is the thing that's going to see you through. Just remember, you cannot fail if you just keep going.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want you to share, it's kind of a bonus for our listeners. You have a lot of everyday things that you do. Some things I do too that really help in terms of the day-to-day, like the way that you schedule your week, which is something I do as well.

Cait Scudder:
Yes, absolutely. So, one of the best hacks, oh my gosh, this just saves so much time, so much mental bandwidth for me is scheduling a CEO day. So, on Mondays, I mean, I'm on the phone a lot of the time, whether it's on the phone with clients, group calls, individual calls, collaborators, I'm on the phone a lot. Mondays are my CEO day, which means I don't take any calls. Monday is my day to work completely on my business, and not be in anybody else's business. And that has been so helpful for not only block scheduling and batching out what I need to do in a week, but also for keeping me super on point when I'm coaching on the other days and just very, very focused on what I need to do. I think that as entrepreneurs and as CEOs, one of our biggest forms of currency is our focus and our attention. So, scheduling in a CEO day is going to massively help you feel organized and sane as you move into the week. And I recommend doing it on a Monday because who doesn't love moving into the week feeling organized and sane?

Cait Scudder:
The second thing I would say is, create a little routine for yourself on a daily basis. And I don't mean wake up at 5:00 AM, meditate, do power yoga, sit in lotus for 25 minutes. No, you don't have to do any of that. For me, one of the things that I have is a non-negotiable. I wake up, I have some water with lemon, I exercise for half an hour to 45 minutes, and I move into my day after doing a little bit of gratitude practice. And I might think about things in the shower. I don't spend hours journaling in the morning. But I think that if you can mentally and physically prime your body in the morning, you're really setting yourself up for success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about the mindset that's involved because it's important that we be aware of what other people are doing. First of all, we learn from them and you should just always be aware of competition, let's be real. And also, I believe a lot of competition, it's actually expanding businesses. So, I believe in cooperation over competition in general, but it's also important not to compare too much, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, I think one of the biggest things that knocks us off our horse is this feeling of imposter syndrome of, "She's doing it better than me" or "they already have this established company" or "who am I to come into this space?" And I think whenever that happens, and let's be real, it happens for all of us, the most important way that we can shift out of that is moving your attention from comparison, from analyzing all of your flaws and your worthiness and your capability. Taking your attention off of all of that comparison and "not good enough" noise, and moving it back to a place of service, and moving it back to a place of all of the reasons why you and you alone are the best equipped to serve your people. Why you have moved through everything that you've been through in your life, in your business and your experience in order to be able to offer what you're doing.

Cait Scudder:
And just remember, if you are not showing up for your people, you're taking away from them the opportunity that they have to experience what's possible on the other side. So, the more that you can give yourself permission to let go of the comparing mind, which is our ego's way of keeping us safe, and go back to all of the ways that you're equipped to help somebody, you're going to be of so much more service and you're going to make a heck of a lot more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to finally just touch on something that you have some strong opinions on. And that is MLMs, multilevel marketing. It's important. There's some really good ones out there, but you also have a lot to say about the fact that some of them are scammy. What do people need to know?

Cait Scudder:
I think that there are a lot of amazing people out there building a successful business in network marketing. I think there are great companies out there that offer possibilities for people, but do your homework, guys. I think it's very important to know what you're getting into and to really... And this is the case, whether you're in an MLM or you're building your own business or you're working for somebody else, quite frankly, is you need to be 100% behind the mission, the ethos, the values of whatever it is that you're selling.

Cait Scudder:
So, rather than just looking at a shiny object as a way to make a little bit more money in your bank account month after month, really ask yourself, "Is being affiliated with this community or this company something that I'm going to feel proud of in 10 years? Do I align with the values and the greater impact that this company is making?" Because ultimately, whether you are just one person in a rank or you are an entrepreneur under your own brand, you are representing a brand and that brand is yourself. And so, you really want to make sure that you align at a deep level with whatever it is that you're standing behind.

Episode Links:

• Cait's website - www.caitscudder.com

• Cait’s podcast - Born To Rise

• Cait’s Ted Talk - www.caitscudder.com/episode/tedxtalk

Follow Cait!

• Instagram - @caitscudder

• YouTube

• Facebook - @caitloneragan

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Learn how to make 2020 the year you up your net worth with these specific and very do-able strategies that will motivate and inspire you. 

4 ways to increase your net worth in 2020

Bobbi:
And we're going to talk more about the specifics of the book, but first I want to get to these four ways to increase your net worth in 2020 that you have brought to us for this Financial Grownup guide episode. One whole chapter before we get into the four, one whole chapter of your book is actually becoming a net worth warrior.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And so much of what's in the book is really basic financial literacy and financial planning kind of ideas. Unfortunately those ideas have really gotten lost in it's the consumer society and we don't really give messages to people about financial literacy and how to build your net worth. So the whole idea of the book is to get some real concrete tips on how to build net worth.

Bobbi:
Before we get into your four ways that you brought to increase your net worth in 2020, let's just explain what exactly is your net worth. How do you calculate that? Because people kind of think they have an idea of what that is, but they may not know exactly how that is calculated, what's included and what's not.

Norm Champ:
The way to calculate your net worth is to make a balance sheet just like a business would. On the left hand side you list your assets. That's everything that you own, including things you own with debt. So home, car, savings accounts, securities account, your 401(k), any other retirement accounts. So all the assets on the left side. Then on the right hand side you put all of your liabilities, your mortgage, any other debt that you have, anything else where you owe money and it subtracts from the asset side.

Norm Champ:
So then you total up the left side, all your assets, you total up the right hand side, the liabilities, you subtract that and then the resulting number is your net worth. So what we're trying to do is build up that left hand side, build up the assets and cut down on the right hand side, cut down on the debt, so that you can increase your net worth.

Bobbi:
Great. And it takes patience. And it takes a lot of frankly being intentional. So we're going to go through these steps that you can take. And again, this is lifetime goals. This isn't something that's just going to happen overnight, but you have to start now. So the first thing that you talk about is cutting spending. And this isn't just about don't have those lattes. You talk about finding your inner governor. What does that mean? That's not a political statement.

Norm Champ:
No. And exactly is a joke in the book, it's not finding the politician running your State. So essentially we are living in a consumer society. You hear that all the time. What that means is our economy right now is primarily driven by consumer spending. I'm not so much of an unrealistic person to think we're going to stop that. However, consumer spending is not each person's friend when it comes to building their net worth. So I love your point about intentionality. You need to be intentional to reduce the spending side, because until you get the spending under control, any idea of getting out of debt, any idea of building net worth is a pretty distant goal. One of the things I talk about in the book is the subscription service mentality that we're in.

Bobbi:
Right. You say think before you click.

Norm Champ:
Think before you click. Every time you're on your phone, and literally, I mean it's gotten to absurd levels. Every time you download an app, Oh, just open an account and have a free trial and then you can always cancel. Well, human behavior and studies have shown people don't cancel. And I think the side in the book is people have nine apps that they don't use and that they're still being charged for. It's the average or something like that.

Norm Champ:
So it's just an example of how the consumer society gets you to spend and if we're going to get into positive net worth territory, we've got to get spending down. The apps are an easy one. You know the latte one is funny because you hear that all the time. I'm actually not a huge believer in that. If you want to get a cup of coffee, I would get a cup of coffee. But-

Bobbi:
It's meant to be a metaphor.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And I think you want to be very, very conscious of every message in our society is to buy and I think some of the best learning on this ever is the thought of listen, what do I really need? There's a great principle of, Hey, you could buy the 72 inch TV and do it on a layaway plan and all these other things, but do you really need that TV? Is your current 62 inch TV okay? And starting to really think through, do I need to buy these things?

Norm Champ:
Here's another great example. This one I didn't learn about until after I did the book. Almost a majority of Americans who have a car loan owe more on the car than the car is worth mostly by two to one. So around 40,000 in debt on cars that are worth around 20,000 you're asking how can that possibly be? It's because as you trade in cars and you get different ones, the debt keeps going up and you're never making any progress. Right? So the whole cutting spending side has to be the first principle. That's where we start out in the book with, because you've got to get a control of that side if you want to get to net worth.

Bobbi:
Right, and I think you make a good point about layaway plans. People are taking longer and longer loans for cars and that's why those car loans are getting a lot more attention. It's something we've covered actually on my other podcast, Money with Friends. We've done a bunch of episodes about how that consumer behavior towards cars and car buying is evolving. Let's get to number two and that is kind of the flip side. The sister to the spending is pay down your debt.

Norm Champ:
Debt has to be, if I want to single out one thing, it's the single most corrosive thing going on in our society. This is from the very top of the country all the way down. So we are now running massive deficits at the top level, at the government level. We have had low interest rates, although somewhat better return to more normal rates now, but we had zero interest rates for all the entire Obama administration.

Norm Champ:
So the whole society has moved towards debt. The problem with debt is that people keep incurring it for the spending we were talking about, and they're always incurring new debt and they're not paying off the old debt. And so that's how you end up with these balances rising up. And so it's very important to think about, you'll think super carefully about debt, I quote, it's Benjamin Franklin in the book.

Bobbi:
Yes, I love that quote. I was about to mention that.

Norm Champ:
It's just that debt gives someone else power over you and if want to make it to be a net worth warrior, if you want to get there, you've got to get out of debt. And so it's correlated to the first principle, right? You got to cut down on the spending so you can devote that money to paying down debt and the goal should be to get out of debt.

Norm Champ:
And one of the biggest ones which I devote an entire chapter to is home buying. Our government and our society continue to press home buying as a route to wealth. The only problem with that is talk to all those people that were closed on in 2009, in 2010, they're not going to tell you the home buying was a path to wealth. Before you buy a home, it's a financial decision just like any other, and it's the number one debt, typically the biggest debt any US citizens take on their life is their home debt. Make sure that you do that with an appropriate down payment and you're really intentional about what you're doing.

Norm Champ:
As I say in the book, everyone says rent is a waste of money. Well, in a mortgage, all you're doing is renting that money from the bank. So we've got to get real on the things we're spending and going into debt for and get that debt down. And it is tough, right? It's always easier to do the new spending than pay off the old, but it's a critical part of building net worth.

Bobbi:
Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. Okay, the third way to increase your net worth, you talk about taking advantage of a 401(k) and that really goes ... I mean in your book you talk about the tax free investing. You have a whole chapter on that.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. You know something is good if the government is trying to get at it. So remember that the Obama administration proposed taxing people's 529 college savings plans, that quickly to hide a political death. But the 529s, the 401(k)s, IRAs, these are all the rare gifts of the tax code. Generally the tax code takes from you. These accounts allow you to grow money tax free. Now whether it's a Roth or traditional, it has different tax impacts, but either way you are allowed to grow your money in those accounts tax free.

Norm Champ:
There's no better way to build net worth than to take advantage of those tax free accounts and they are part of your net worth. Don't think of them as retirement accounts. Think of them as part of your net worth. And if you get, you should max your contribution to them and max any employer contribution to them.

Bobbi:
Right and don't exactly. The employer contribution is very important. Let's explain that. You can basically get in some cases as much as 100% return on whatever part the employer is matching, which is a better return than you're going to get in almost any mainstream investment, right?

Norm Champ:
As I say in the book, it's free money and anytime they offer you free money, there's the old saying, when they hand you money take it. When you get the chance to get free money from your employer in your 401(k), you have to take it. Unfortunately, statistics show low participation rates in 401(k) and then low participation with the match. And that's just free money that people are leaving on the table. And to your point, your return on that money is 100% because it's just free to you.

Norm Champ:
And then secondly, once you have it in your account and it grows tax free, then you get a compounding effect of that. And particularly for young people. But even later in life you're talking decades of investing in tax free and compounding in that account, there's nothing more valuable. And I just urge people to think of those accounts as part of their net worth, not as retirement accounts. They are part of your net worth.

Bobbi:
Right. And the fourth way to increase your net worth in 2020 that you want to talk about is the actual investing component. You say in the book that if you can read, you can manage your portfolio. A lot of people are intimidated. It's important also to understand that the vehicle we just talk about, the vehicles are buckets effectively. You don't just put money into a 401(k), you then have to invest it, it has to go somewhere. And those are choices that you have to make. You can't just put it there or it's basically like stuffing it under a mattress. Yes, you're getting the tax savings in the match, but then it has to go somewhere.

Norm Champ:
Exactly. And this point about investing, if I think of my time in the US government at the Securities Exchange Commission, this had to be the most traumatic thing I learned there, which is you see headlines about the SEC working on big cases around big financial firms and all that kind of stuff. But the vast majority of those cases are a teeny little percentage. The vast majority of what the SEC works on is something called affinity fraud.

Norm Champ:
This is where someone in your church group, someone in your community group, someone in your friend group, unfortunately people turn money over to them and that money typically gets stolen. And the reason for this is that people are scared of investing. To your point, they just don't know what to do with it. Don't know where to go with it. Oh, the nice young man in my church group said he would handle it. And of course the money's never seen again.

Norm Champ:
And so, one of the basic points that I make in the book is until you get to, I just picked half a million dollars, but there's no magic number. But until you get to a significant net worth, there's no reason to do anything other than divide your money between stocks and bonds and mutual funds. Mutual funds are low cost. They're regulated very closely by the federal government. We have never had a mutual fund failure that cost anyone money. It doesn't mean the investments are going to go up, but they are heavily regulated. They're intended for the retail investor and they've become very cheap. if you look at the cost ratios, they've gotten incredibly cheap as far as fees.

Norm Champ:
My real point on this is don't be afraid because it's the fear of investing that leads people to the scam artists, the affinity frauds. And so don't be afraid. Do the simple formula that I have in the book of the split between stocks and bonds, go into your 401(k) or your taxable County, you're absolutely right. These are just buckets of money, taxable and nontaxable. Go in there and get your asset allocation set up and then forget about it. You're not going to trade, you're a busy person, you're hiring those mutual fund managers to do it for you. And it's a very safe way to invest.

Norm Champ:
Again, it doesn't mean you're going to make money. However, over the longterm, I just was reading an article over the longterm stocks remain at about an 11% return per year. There's obviously big ups and downs in that. The key is to stay in these funds and let them reinvest and let them ride out over time. And on a longterm average, you're going to make a ton of money and in the 401(k) you're not going to be taxed on it. So it's just trying to get people away from the risky investments, unfortunately, because of the fear of investing, people reach for investments that they shouldn't be investing in.

Bobbi:
Yeah, and I do want to just give some context to the comments that you're making. You are a former director of the division of investment management at the SEC, and also under your leadership I should say, the SEC did adopt a new rule to reform money market mutual funds. So this really is an issue that's very close to heart. You were there right after the Bernie Madoff scandal and you know Bernie Madoff, a lot of that happened because people trusted him. He was in these affinity groups. He had validation having been in leadership at the Nasdaq and so on and so that is a very real thing. So thank you for bringing that up. Before we wrap it up, anything more to share about the book? I mean it's very readable I think, and it's only 150 pages, but it is packed with a lot of great information.

Norm Champ:
Oh, thanks so much. This is a passion project. Financial literacy is something I believe in deeply. I'm starting a nonprofit organization to pursue that mission of trying to get these messages out there and I'd love to do, if anyone wants to do an event, I'd be happy to come and bring books and just give them away. Frankly, I want this message to get out there, it's really something I feel very, very strongly about.

Episode Links:

• Norm's website - www.normchamp.com

• Norm’s Book - Mastering Money: How to Beat Debt, Build Wealth and Be Prepared for Any Financial Crisis

Follow Norm!

• Instagram - @authornormchamp

• Twitter - @NormBChamp

• Facebook - @NormChampAuthor

• LinkedIn - @normchamp

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Reese Everson was able to drive off in a Mercedes on a Nissan budget by making some creative choices and getting real about her priorities. We also preview her latest book and share a money tip that will help you get past procrastination and feeling overwhelmed.

Reese’s Money Story:

Bobbi Rebell:

there's a lot more to the story. There's a lot of dramatic twists and turns. And what I loved about the book is that you use it as a foundation to share a lot of information about things that people don't know about in terms of how finances work, especially in terms of the things that you're talking about. Inheritance, reverse mortgage and so on. So that's a little teaser for the book, so everyone needs to check out The Babes Guide to Generational Wealth. Let's talk about your money story. It's something that you kind of mentioned briefly but I want you to expand on. It's about going shopping for a car and you were originally going to buy a Nissan and then again you're so dramatic Reese, another twist in the story.

Reese Everson:
Yes. I got to the dealership to go pick up my Nissan and they were just giving me all sorts of hoops to jump through. Oh, we don't have that color. Because, here's the thing. They posted an advertisement that said the Nissan Maximas were $199 with no money down. Now when we hear those things, we think, oh, okay, that sounds good, but when you really get there, there's a couple other stipulations. They may limit it to a certain color and then when you get there they don't have that color. Kind of like when you want something from Target but they're sold out and you can't just get a rain check. And so I got to the dealership and they were trying to give me all this runaround because they really wanted me to pay a much higher price and that advertisement was just to get me in the door.

Reese Everson:
So I told them, I said, "Listen, I'm going to go to lunch and I'm going for a walk. When I get back, I'll be ready to sign off on the car and you'd better have the color or whatever you need to have so that I can have the price that you advertised and I'm not paying a penny more." During my walk, I walked across the street to the Mercedes dealership and I saw the car of my dreams. I said, "Oh my gosh, I just want to take a picture inside this car so I can put it on my vision board." I need to see myself in this vehicle. So I walked in and I sat down and I told the guys, I said, "Excuse me, can you take a picture for me? He said, "Of course." So I take this picture, and he said, "Well, what car are you looking at today?" I said, "Oh, a Nissan Maxima." He said, "You don't look like a Nissan girl to me. You look like a Mercedes girl."

Bobbi Rebell:
He's a good salesperson.

Reese Everson:
And so I was so caught off guard by that, I mean, he was really talking to what really gets most people to buy is our emotional validation feeling. And of course we all want to be affiliated with a much higher fancy luxury brand than just a regular Nissan. He said, "Well, what's your budget?" I said, "$199 no money down." Because I wasn't going to spend more just because it was a Mercedes. I literally had a budget and I was going to stick to it. And so when I told the guy that he was just, "Well, you've got to come up with a little more for a Mercedes of course."

Reese Everson:
And you know what? I stuck to my guns and I want to say that I walked in there around 12 noon and I drove out at 7:00 PM in a brand new Mercedes. But here's the trick to it. I wanted a new car. Well, what Mercedes has available sometimes are cars that have been used but they've only been leased for a year. Those cars are substantially less than a car that's the brand new model but it has all of the features and gadgets of the brand new model usually. So I was able to get a car at a much lower price, which was almost the same as what I was going to pay for a Nissan, maybe $10 more. You just really have to be willing to negotiate but also realize that cars depreciate 40% as soon as you drive them off the lot. So having a new car, it sounds good, but is it the best financial fit for most of us? And the answer is usually no

“What really gets people to buy is our emotional validation feeling. ”

Reese’s Money Lesson:

Reese Everson:

The one thing I realized is that you have to be willing to walk away and you have to be willing to say no. A lot of times when we're shopping it can get emotional. It's about, oh, this makes me feel good, this makes me look good. People will look at me a certain way in a Mercedes. But the truth of the matter is when you're really happy none of that stuff matters. Fast forwarding from that experience, I was actually in California maybe two years after I had gotten my Mercedes and I was riding up the coast, the Pacific Highway, past Malibu and all of that stuff. And I was driving a rental car, a Hyundai, and it's just a basic Hyundai, nothing fancy about it.

Reese Everson:
But I was just as happy and just as peaceful in this Hyundai as I was in my Mercedes. So what I realized is when you're really happy it's not about the car that you're in, it's about how you feel about yourself and inside yourself. And so when you really are at a place where you've made sure that you are walking in your happiness and you're not putting up with unnecessary drama or going through stress and harassment at work, you're going to be perfectly fine with whatever vehicle gets you from point A to point B.

“You have to be willing to walk away. And you have to be willing to say no.”

Reese’s Money Tip:

Reese Everson:
Well, one of the first tips I have for people is, open your mail. And it sounds really, really elementary and simple but here's the truth of the matter. When I've done coaching with clients, one of my clients, I remember walking into her kitchen and I opened up her kitchen cabinet and she said, "I'm embarrassed to show you this. Don't ever tell anyone this, but I need to tell you guys it's a big deal." I opened her kitchen cabinet where her pots and pans were supposed to be and the door swung open and piles of mail for maybe two or three years were stuffed in her kitchen cabinet. And it made me realize you can't be in control of your money if you're not even opening your mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which we assume but that's amazing. I mean this had to have been some kind of a denial situation where she just couldn't handle it.

Reese Everson:
Absolutely. So what we have is a person who had gone through a divorce and to some extent things kind of started to pile up and when it overwhelmed her, instead of saying, "You know what? I'm going to get a system. I'm going to have a desk where I spread things out where I maybe hole punch things and keep them in a binder." It began to intimidate her and she buried her head in the sand. And so all of that mail instead of reading it and hearing more and more bad news because it started to bother her, she just started to throw it under the cabinet. Well probably in a drawer.

Reese Everson:
Some of us start with a drawer and then I think it just overwhelmed the drawer and somehow just filled up a cabinet and she had years of documents in a cabinet and what I'm learning is that if you don't know how to handle what you're dealing with and what's coming at you, you've got to get some help. We've got to say, "Wait a minute, pause. This is starting to overwhelm me." And when you realize that, keep in mind this is going to affect my credit. It's easier to stop the train early on and get some help than to try to pull the train from the river.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Create reasons to open the mail. Stay with me here. This may sound silly, but because I personally do have a habit of letting the mail go a few days, sometimes even a week. I have recently started creating reasons to open the mail. Specifically the idea that money could be coming in good things. So for example, I have an account on Rakuten. It's a browser extension that pays you a few percent back on things that you buy. It doesn't always add up to that much. Although I've gotten as much as $99 in a month, which is not all that bad. It's still nice to get a check, a paper check. It's kind of retro, but it feels good. I've set it up so that I get those checks in the snail mail rather than say auto deposit or points in their system, whatever.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

I love when Reese says to just walk away. As a consumer, we need to be reminded, but we should always remember that it is our money. If the purchase doesn't fit your needs and especially if somebody tries to pull what was clearly a bait and switch on you like they tried to do with Reese, she didn't fall for it, hit the road or at least hit pause like she did and figure out what you can do with that situation. And by the way, as long as your expectation is reasonable and they can make a profit, you'll almost always certainly get some version of your way in the end.

What's your take on deciding when to walk away and how have you been able to upgrade the things that you want? DM me on Instagram at Bobbi Rebell one or on Twitter. I'm at Bobbi Rebell. Please help us grow the show by subscribing and telling your friends and if you have a few minutes, please take the time to review the show. I read and truly appreciate every one. Pick up a copy of The Babes Guide to Generational Wealth. It's a great read. I truly enjoyed it and recommend it and big thanks to Reese Everson for helping us all be financial grownups.

Episode Links:

• Reese's website - www.babesintheworkplace.com

• Reese’s Book - The B.A.B.E.’s Guide to Generational Wealth

Follow Reese!

• Instagram - @thebabesguide

• Twitter - @thebabesguide

• Facebook - @TheBABESGuide

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include Don’t Keep Your Day Job by Cathy Heller, The Big Stretch by Teneshia Warner, The Future is Faster Than You Think by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, Napkin Finance by Tina Hay and Bow Dow by Lindsay Goldwert.

These are recommendations so I am going to focus on why I was drawn to them and what I got out of them- and full disclosure we do focus  on books written by authors that appear on the podcast- because if we are being honest when I love a book- I want to know more and I want to share that with you guys so we tend to reach out and try to get them on.

Book #1: Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career by Cathy Heller

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-The book is practical and specific. She gives down to earth advice about how to realistically follow your passion but in a very practical way. 

- She shares advice from experts including authors Jen Sincero and Gretchen Rubin and actress Jenna Fischer. There are also stories about every day people to make it relatable.

-There are lots of inspirational quotes like "Why did it have to be an ‘either-or’ when it could be a ‘yes and’?”

Who is this book for:

Don’t keep your day job will motivate just about anyone but it is especially for people looking for advice on well.. how to leave their corporate jobs. Also Entrepreneurs who need a little nudge to connect doing what they love, with doing something that another person or entity will pay for. Emphasis on getting paid.  

Book #2: The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success by Teneshia Warner

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It shares the success stories of some of the dreamers that have spoken at those conferences

-It has a time line: 90 days with specific assignments

-Teneshia’s personality shines through and is the real gem in this book

Who is this book for:

It’s for people willing to do the work to get to their goals and The Big Stretch will help you decide if that is you. Not everyone is ready to go for it- and Teneshia sets expectations that will push you to get there- but only if you are ready. 

Book #3: The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-At first I was intimidated by the book- in part because it’s authors are so accomplished as “Big” Thought Leaders. But once I started reading it, this actually became a page turner because of the very accessible way they approach what are often complicated topics, 

-It’s a little like looking into a crystal ball except after- and only after they lay out theories and predictions, you realize that to a large degree. the way things play out was logical all along. They touch on everything from AI, to digital biology, virtual reality, robotics and blockchain.

-The book made me smarter about our world and who doesn’t love just feeling like they have a better handle on our world. 

Who is this book for:

Truth- This is all stuff I just wasn’t that into- until I started reading the book. So even if this isn’t your thing- move out of your comfort zone and just start. You might be surprised how much you like it, just like I did. 

Book #4: Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less by Tina Hay.

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-It addresses the very basics of financial literacy in a unique and approachable way

-Napkin Finance explains some of the most misunderstood and confusing topics ranging from blockchain to credit scores and paying off student debt.

-Fun fact: Napkin Finance partnered with Michelle Obama’s Better Make Room campaign 

Who is this book for:

Napkin Finance is a book for beginners- and for those of us that can benefit from some re-enforcement and sometimes clarification of financial concepts- most basic but some kind of complicated. 

Bonus Book: Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want by Lindsay Goldwert.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-Lindsay is very revealing about her own challenges and makes you feel like you are in it together with her

-The doms- as Lindsay often refers to the dominatrixes share some very specific advice about how they negotiate and hold on to power

-There is a lot of psychology and real insights into human behavior and what triggers certain reactions. By revealing these Lindsay helps us see why we get the reactions we do, and how we can pivot to get.. well everything we want. 

Who is this book for:

Everyone that wants to get everything they want- of course. 

Episode Links:

Cathy Heller’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Don’t Keep Your Day Job: How to Turn your Passion into your Career

Teneshia Warner’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Big Stretch: 90 Days to Expand Your Dreams, Crush Your Goals, and Create Your Own Success

Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Future is Faster Thank You Think. How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries and Our Lives

Tina Hay’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Napkin Finance: Build your Wealth in 30 seconds or less

Lindsay Goldwert’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Bow Down: Lessons from Dominatrixes on How to Get Everything You Want.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Starting your life is expensive, and so is starting a business. Canvas and Hyde Founder Lisa Pongrass quickly learned that not having insurance, or ordering in bulk to save money can come back to hit your bottom line before you even have a top line. 

Lisa’s Money Story:

Lisa Pongrass:
So interestingly, I'm self-funded and when I started the business I had to go out and source all of the materials. And having never worked in this field before, I went door to door, found the great leathers. In fact, I flew to Miami to get the hides hat I was using initially for the bags. What I found, and because I guess when there's skin in the game, your own skin in the game, so much of it you really want to get the best prices for everything. And I found that people offered me greater discounts when I bought volume, which is pretty much standard in the industry. So of course what did I do? I bought volume in the assumption that I would be making certain amount of inventory.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have any presales at this point?

Lisa Pongrass:
None.

Bobbi Rebell:
You had no orders. Okay.

Lisa Pongrass:
No orders at this point. I'm a brand new brand. Never made a bag before. And I guess someone had said to me once that one of the single biggest contributing factors to small business failure is a lack of cashflow. And it obviously didn't resonate enough because I found quite quickly that I had all this great material but not the cashflow to use it to go into production with all the bags. So had I had my time again, I definitely would have done that a little bit differently.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened? How'd you get out of this mess?

Lisa Pongrass:
How did I get out of the mess? Well, I didn't use all my capital and I did start selling the bags quite quickly. I got into 23 stores and that was then able to bring money back into the business. There were a few sleepless nights in there. In this industry, in the fashion industry, you make things and you, unless everything is for order, you never know if it's going to work or not. There's a little bit of a risk and a lot of luck. Fear is a little bit paralyzing. So I tried to not come from a place of fear. I had to have confidence and I did have confidence in what I was creating. I was just very lucky to be around women friends who empowered me and kept me going. For example, when you're buying the skins, you get a better price to buy more. But when you buy the hardware, I use the very best nickel plated brass, the best hardware, and it's expensive.

Lisa Pongrass:
But if you buy a thousand of something, it's not as expensive. So I was buying in the thousands of these pieces of hardware. I use them all in the end. I mean, it's three years in, so I've actually had a chance to use them all, thank goodness. I've still got some skins sitting in storage, but how did I get out of it? I think just then the cash flow started to change the sales. So I would be getting checks from my retailers and I was able to get myself out of it. You know, looking back, if someone had said to me, "Pay a little extra but get less so you're not in the hole for that amount of money." I probably would have listened and that would've been a more prudent way to go about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did it motivate you in a way because you suddenly had a clock ticking, even though you had a little extra cash? There's something to be said for that pressure, whether it's welcome or not, it was there.

Lisa Pongrass:
Absolutely. Look, it's a catch 22, because by getting a better price when you're doing your costings, you're able to use that better price to put together what it actually costs you to make. However, if the money is tied up on developed or manufactured bags, then it's dead money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have any business background? I mean, what were you basing all these ideas on?

Lisa Pongrass:
So I'd worked in PR and Marketing. I'd worked for a magazine as a Deputy Editor of a fashion mag, and I'd also worked as an agent, a fashion agent. So I'd been in sales, but I'd never been in the business side of production before. The logistics of just going into production, of sourcing materials, of getting the best prices for things. I'd never done any of that and I had zero experience. Luckily I was very naive, because I look back now and had I known what I know now, I think I would have been too fearful to go into it. But I was ... ignorance is bliss in a bit of a way, and I thought, "How hard can it be? It's not brain surgery."

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you educate yourself?

Lisa Pongrass:
Trial and error. I've made some mistakes that were very costly. One mistake that cost me $8,000, that I'll never see is my manufacturer delivered my first order from overseas. So now I've diversified manufacturing. It's New York and Italy, and they just sent the order and they didn't insure it. I didn't know, I just assumed that that was part of the shipment. They didn't insure it and FedEx lost one of my boxes. So they didn't cover it. My manufacturer didn't cover it and I had to wear it.

“Slow down and don’t rush into committing to things you don’t need.”

Lisa’s Money Lesson:

Lisa Pongrass:
You know, one of the ones that I've learned is there are lots of hidden costs that you don't see day to day. For example, when you have a website and you're with Square, there's a monthly fee. When you sell something, there is a vendor's fee, which is I think three or 4% transaction fee. Google Drive. There's a monthly fee. QuickBooks, there's a monthly fee. There are so many fees that you sign up for at the beginning and then after a while you're thinking, "Wow, why is the bank balance diminishing so rapidly?" And then when you go back in and you check it out, you think, "Well, I don't really need that anymore. I don't need QuickBooks yet." Certain businesses, every business is different, but I certainly learnt that I signed up for things like Yelp or certain social media things that I really didn't need to do and I thought I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it sounds like basically when you started your business you had costs, whether it be from buying too much inventory initially, too much supplies, and also maybe signing up for so many things that are ongoing subscriptions that maybe you found out you didn't necessarily need, they weren't quite right. What is the lesson from all of this for our listeners?

Lisa Pongrass:
I think take it slow. I think probably slow down and don't rush into committing to things that you don't really need. At the time, you think that you do need them. And then maybe revise it more regularly than I did. I certainly know that for the first year I worked out of my home, which was a good thing to do. I had that advice from people, don't go and get an office or a showroom too quickly, which I didn't do. And I'm very glad I have an office and a showroom now and I don't think I could ever work from home again, because I've just grown too much. But take it slow, take it slow.

“Unless everything is for order, you never know if it’s going to work or not. It’s a little risk and a lot of luck.”

Lisa’s Money Tip:

Lisa Pongrass:
I recently was going through my finances and I saw that one of the biggest expenses I had monthly was my dry cleaning bill.

Bobbi Rebell:
We can all relate.

Lisa Pongrass:
I do buy quality, so I'm wearing things that are from 10 years ago, [inaudible 00:10:49] beautiful quality. So I bought a steamer and I realized that you can have something that's beautiful that says dry clean only, but it doesn't literally mean that you have to dry clean it. You can steam it yourself. So I'm hoping that that's going to really reduce my cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also, and I'm going to force you to throw in another one that you mentioned to me before we started recording, about your dog, which is another fun, easy way to save money. Maybe not always fun.

Lisa Pongrass:
My baby. Well, grooming is so expensive. So, now I obviously I can't cut him myself, but I wash him myself and it's a really nice bonding experience for my baby and I, but it also saves me between 80 and $100 for a wash. So I do that. We do that every three or four weeks and he loves it and I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's so cute. It's so cute. And that's significant money. That's for real. I mean, if you're saving a hundred bucks a month, that's $1,200 a year. That is a lot of money.

Lisa Pongrass:
Yeah. Not only am I saving money, but he and I are having a fun time. In fact, it always seems like one of those things, "Oh, I've got to wash the dog." And then the minute you started, it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is. We actually, we wash our dog. My listeners know my dog is Waffles, she's a Morkie and my husband's really primarily in charge of the washing. I am in charge of the drying. And she loves it, she loves it.

Lisa Pongrass:
Does she love it?

Bobbi Rebell:
She goes into the shower? Yes, and she's super cute and she always looks so good when she comes out all clean.

Lisa Pongrass:
Does your dog run around the house crazy when she's wet?

Bobbi Rebell:
No, she does not. She stands nicely and waits for us to dry her. She's a very well behaved dog, so I take it yours does.

Lisa Pongrass:
When he's wet. He can't wait to get out of the towel and then he just zooms around the house and rubs up against the sofa. It's very funny.

“Luckily I was very naive, because I look back now and had I known what I know now, I think I would have been too fearful to go into it.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Lisa went through her business expenses and realized that all the little things were really adding up to big things. This applies to apps, subscriptions, and probably a lot of things that I'm not even thinking of right now. Some of them may be worth it, but sometimes you realize maybe you don't need the premium version of everything. Maybe you can step it down a notch. Do an inventory of all the little things, cut as many as you possibly can, maybe cut all of them even and then just add them back in one by one, the ones that you feel you really need or you miss.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Lisa talks about buying a steamer and slashing her dry cleaning bill. She also washes her dog at home. The truth is we can all do a lot more at home. If you're into facials, maybe go sometimes, but do some at home for example, or find ways to make things last longer. Take your shoes and have new soles put on them instead of going out and purchasing new ones. It's also a lot more sustainable, better for the environment.

Episode Links:

• Lisa's website - www.canvasandhyde.com

Follow Lisa + Canvas & Hyde!

• Instagram - @canvasandhyde

• Facebook - @canvasandhyde

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, authors of "The Future is Faster Than You Think: How Converging Technologies Are Transforming Business, Industries And Our Lives" join Bobbi with a preview of their latest book, and specific ways money-related changes will impact us in the coming years. 

8 Ways Money Will Change the Future

1. We’re going to live longer—we’ll need to approach retirement very differently

2. Demonetization is going to radically alter education, travel etc.

3. Convergence means that future financial investment opportunities can lie between industries and in mash-up markets

4. New players in Finance (Google, for example, just went into banking)

5. Insurance is going to radically change and whole categories will vanish

6. Your AI is going to be making a lot of your buying decisions for you.

7 You also say we are moving to a cashless future 

8 -Blockchain will continue to disrupt traditional banking, spreading widely into the developed world much like it’s already transformed financial systems in developing countries.

Episode Links:

• Peter's website - www.diamandis.com

• Steven’s website - www.stevenkotler.com

Follow Peter!

• Twitter - @PeterDiamandis

• Facebook - @PeterDiamandis

• LinkedIn - @peterdiamandis

Follow Steven!

• Instagram - @kotler.steven

• Twitter - @steven_kotler

• Facebook - @KotlerSteven

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us a little bit about the book, just quickly before we get into some really cool stuff you're going to share with us.

Steven Kotler:
The future we talk about in the book, for some people is scary, because people are not used to this rapid rate of change. The best solution for that fear is really having an understanding of where the world is going. Part of the mission of the book is to give people a clear vision of the future that these converging technologies are enabling. For most of the case, this is an incredible win for consumers, an uplifting of abundance in the world, where ultimately these exponential converging technologies are helping to meet the need of every man, woman, and child on the planet. That makes for a world that is, in my ... in our mind, I would say safer and better for humanity, so this is a hopeful book that builds the case for creating a better world for tomorrow.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really a roadmap into how money is going to change in the future and, most importantly, how we can and frankly need to be ready. A lot of this is not just you guys talking. There's a lot of scientific research here and a lot tying in technology to money and how it's going to specifically impact our lives. You're going to give us a preview, and you brought with you a list of different ways that all these things are going to affect money and our lives. Let's start with the first thing on your list. This is about our approach to retirement and longevity.

Peter Diamandis:
Sure, let me jump in there, because it's an area that I spend a lot of time investing in and time building companies around, and it's the notion that we're going to be heading to a world in which we're not dying at age 70 or 80, that we're living a healthy lifespan to 90, to 100, to 110, eventually 120. In our book, The Future is Faster Than You Think, we have an entire chapter on healthcare and a chapter on longevity that tracks these different technologies, billions of dollars flowing into them. If you think about it, there's no larger business opportunity than extending the healthy human lifespan. So, I think this is a reality and I think people need to start thinking about, "Do I have to save enough money to live to be 100 years old or 110 years old?" Because if you can have the aesthetics, the cognition and mobility at 100 that you had at 60, why wouldn't you want to? It's not about living in a wheelchair, it's about living a vibrant life. So, that's the first thing. We're going to live longer. We're going to live healthier, and we have to prepare for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such a great point. Let's move onto the second point. This is fascinating, demonetization, because this goes into things that we love, like travel, right, Steven?

Steven Kotler:
Yeah, so demonetization is essentially the removal of money from the equation. The simple example that we're all familiar with is the smartphone. So when Peter and I wrote the first book in the trilogy, [inaudible 00:05:30], we're calling the Exponential Mindset trilogy, with our latest book, The Future is Faster Than You Think is the third installment in. In Abundance, back when we started, we looked at all the technology that shows up for free, demonetized completely, in your smartphone. In 1980s prices, it was over a million dollars-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Steven Kotler:
In music players, in Encyclopedias, in GPS, and on and on and on. So, this is a million dollars worth of stuff that has been dematerialized. It doesn't exist anymore. It comes for free in your phone. This is ... Whenever technologies go exponential, one of the things that starts to happen almost automatically is they begin to demonetize, and this is going into every industry. Travel is a really radical example, both because we're seeing ... over the next 10 years, we're going to see technology such as the Hyperloop, which is high speed trains, maglev trains, 750 miles an hour, so suddenly San Francisco to LA is a 20-minute commute or Las Vegas to San Francisco is a 20-minute commute, which, by the way, totally changes the real estate picture and your local school metric and your dating pool and all that stuff, besides the point, but you've got five or six other technologies, autonomous cars, flying cars, rockets, et cetera.

Steven Kotler:
Then, you have avatars and virtual reality, which completely demonetizes travel. Now we already have avatars and virtual worlds, but if you can put on VR goggles and have an avatar attend a meeting that you need to attend and you've got haptic technology so you can shake hands with other people and be there, or you can have telepresence robots waiting for you that you sort of rent by the hour in your destination city and you can port your senses using VR into the robot and then send the robot onto stage to give a speech for you or whatnot. This sounds crazy far future, but Peter's company, the X Prize, it's [nepon 00:07:29], right, Peter?

Peter Diamandis:
It's all Nepon Airways, ANA Airlines, has basically said, "How do we displace the need for airplanes? How do you not put yourself in an aluminum tube and fly someplace?" They launched a $10 million dollar avatar X Prize. Can we build the avatars, like Steven was saying, then I can transport my consciousness, my senses, and my actions hundreds or thousands of miles away instead of flying in an airplane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, so cool. Let's talk about the investment opportunities angle here, because you say convergence means that future of financial investment opportunities can lie between industries and mashup markets. What does that mean?

Peter Diamandis:
It means that we have pure play investments before in a computer company or communications company or a healthcare company, but all of these things are beginning to blur, right? We're seeing Amazon all of a sudden going from a bookseller to a food company when it buys Whole Foods and it's now moving into healthcare and into finance. So, we're going to start to see companies that are blurring the lines between what have been traditional areas. A lot of the companies that are going to be crushing it are data-driven companies. Google and Amazon and Apple are in our home and they're going to start to play increasingly different roles. It was interesting that Tim Cook, we talk about this in The Future is Faster Than You Think. Tim Cook makes a statement like, "In the future, Apple is going to be best known for its impact on healthcare." Wow. So, we're going to start to see a lot of these blurred lines. So, when you are excited about investing in a particular industry or particular area, it's not going to be the traditional players. It's going to be a new set of players coming in from unpredictable adjacencies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which dovetails to your point that there's going to be a lot of new players in finance.

Steven Kotler:
There are going to be a lot of new players in finance and finance as a whole is going to radically change. We've seen this already. We've seen what AI did to finance. At this point, when there's height rating volume, for example, 90% of the trades on Wall Street are being made by computers at this point. That's just today and where we are, but to Peter's point, the advantage you get is data, right? The more data you have, the bigger understanding you have of markets. We'll see this in traditional finance. We're going to see this playing huge roles in insurance. We're going to see this show up in real estate. It's really going to transform the financial landscape. The first inklings of it, companies like IBM, lots in doing wealth management services, right? It's going to mean that people working in the finance space, creativity is going to become the most important skill going forward. This was not a skill 20 years ago you would have really associated with finance and now it's the key skill because everything else that can be automatized will probably be automatized.

Bobbi Rebell:
Insurance, it is going to radically change.

Peter Diamandis:
Insurance is going to change dramatically and we are going to go away from what was the old actuarial tables of, statistically, over a population of 100,000 people, here's the probability. That's not going to be the case. Now it's like, okay, this is specifically the probability for you, given the technology you're enabling, given the way you eat, exercise, and so forth, your genetics and such. We're going to insure you personally and we're going to work to keep you healthier longer, alive longer, fire free, theft free, and that's our job now. So, interesting change, which makes the world a better place, and people will want that kind of insurance over the "We'll pay you after the disaster occurred."

Steven Kotler:
The other thing I want to add to that is, of course with autonomous cars, car insurance as a category goes away. Right? If the cars are driving themselves and they don't crash, car insurance goes away or at least the risk, it shifts from the consumer, right? Google, with Waymo, [inaudible 00:11:33] with Waymo, they provide ... everybody who gets in the car automatically gets insurance because they're the one who controls the autonomous car, so that's another category that's going to disappear.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about artificial intelligence. How will this affect, for example, the everyday consumer, people buying stuff?

Peter Diamandis:
So, interestingly enough, we're all going to have a version of Jarvis from Iron Man. If you remember Jarvis, Tony Stark had this AI that was in his suit and in his home. He would talk to it and Jarvis would be like a personal, intelligent butler or assistant in this regard. We have the early versions of this with Amazon Echo. We have the early versions of that with Google Home and such, but one thing that's going to happen in the consumer world is that your AI's going to do your buying for you. If your AI is doing your buying for you of foods or consumer products in general, what's that do to advertising, right? If I'm not making the decisions anymore, you can throw all the ads at me you want, but my AI is actually looking at my genetics and the molecular makeup of the toothpaste and saying, "This toothpaste is better for you than this one. Everyone in your peer group, Peter, is buying this and enjoying it and it's cheaper, so I'm buying that for you." You get a new toothpaste and go, "Oh, I like this one better." Right? So the world becomes auto-magical.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it, because it can save a lot of money for consumers, and time and energy, to not have that decision making stress, because every decision is stress.

Steven Kotler:
Absolutely. These are parts of where the world is going, and not in 30 years or 20 years, this next decade, which is what we outlined in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last thing I want to go through is you say we're moving to a cashless future, to the surprise of, really, no one, I think. I think everyone kind of sees the writing on the wall with this one.

Steven Kotler:
Where it starts to get really interesting is, for example, Amazon Go. This is a cashierless checkout where you scan a QR code on your way into the store on your phone, you take the items off the shelf, sensors in the items notice that you've taken it, the AI cameras pick it up, and it's automatically deducted from your account, which is linked, too, in your cellphone and there's no more cash in the equation. This is ... Those stores are here. They're rolling out at scale over the next couple of years. I'm sure there are probably always going to be craft retail stores, like throwback stores. We still have [inaudible 00:13:50] and the chain here, but at convenience stores, at gas stations, at grocery stores, places we're already seeing automated checkout anyways, right? We're checking ourselves out and it's a pain in the butt, but now the hassle is gone. Obviously the savings for retail is enormous. There's no way to compete.

Bobbi Rebell:
What can the average person be doing to get ready for this future?

Peter Diamandis:
We put out something called Abundance Insider, which is a weekly email of how the world is getting more abundant and how to see this positive news. There are amazing books that Steven have written. Please read Abundance and Bold, which are the first two books in the Exponential Mindset series.

Steven Kotler:
Yeah, the only other thing I would add is, there's a human performance side of this, which I tend to work on the Flow Research Collective, so if you want to know what you can do in your own life to keep up in an accelerating world, the website for the flowresearchcollective.com will give you tons and tons of information there.

Music entrepreneur, author, coach and podcast host Cathy Heller was crushed early in her career when her record label dropped her. But she discovered another way to make money from her music and staged the ultimate multi-million dollar comeback. 

Cathy’s Money Story:

Cathy Heller:
Yeah. My money story. I came out to LA wanting to write music. That was all I knew I loved doing as a kid. I thought, all right, I'm going to do that thing that you see them do in movies. I'm going to go out to LA. I grew up on the East Coast. I was going to figure it out and I had to get a job and pay the bills. I got a job as an assistant in an office and I had a roommate and she was an actress and I was doing my thing. And eventually I started writing music and I wrote some mediocre songs and they got better. And I finally got a record deal. I actually did. I remember sitting with Ron Fair at Interscope, I had just signed and Lady Gaga was there recording Paparazzi and I was like, oh my God, I'm sitting in this room. It's amazing.

Bobbi Rebell:
That must've been so surreal.

Cathy Heller:
It was really surreal. And by the way, hearing Paparazzi recorded is really cool because if you go back now and listen, you'll hear what I'm referring to. There's all these strings on the recording and it makes the pop music just sound like some other dimension is going on and it's beautiful. It was just amazing. But I got dropped from the label a few months later. While I was actually sitting there in the studio, Ron Fair, my producer at the time, he said to me, "You know Cathy, when I first came out to LA, I met with Bill Conti." Bill Conti is the guy who did the music for Rocky and so many other iconic movies and he said to him, "You know Ron, you're a really good songwriter but you're an amazing producer." And he said, "And I wound up making a living really as one of the best producers in the industry."

Cathy Heller:
And I remember that story and I didn't know three, four months later that I'd get dropped from the label, but I did and I wound up going and getting a quote unquote real job and I did so many things. I worked in a floral design studio. I thought, oh, if I can't do the thing I love that's creative, I'll do something else creative. As if it's going to scratch that same itch and it doesn't. I think we all have tried that. And then a friend of mine said, "If you're not going to do what you love, just make money." And I said, "Well how do you do that?" She said, "You do real estate." She said, "I know a guy who works in commercial real estate, he lives in Brentwood. You should go work for him."

Cathy Heller:
She introduces me and I start working in commercial real estate. I don't know the first thing about cap rates or mortgages and he says, "All you have to do is pick up the phone, call about 20 to 30 people a day and set some meetings for me and I'll give you good money if you can set meetings." And I wound up being pretty good at it and then I was there for two years and it was really like golden handcuffs because he was paying me a 150 grand to sit at this desk and make phone calls for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Life is going by and you're not in the music business.

Cathy Heller:
No, I wasn't doing anything I loved. And I remember one day I was driving and I was crying so hard, I had to pull over to the side of the road and I thought to myself, I just, I don't know where I went, but I don't recognize myself. I am not this girl. I don't wear pantsuits. I don't blow my hair out. I don't talk this way. And I thought, gosh, we were talking about Tony Robbins before because he wrote the forward to your book and he always says, "Success without fulfillment is like the ultimate failure." And I felt like I couldn't breathe. I was like, I don't care that I'm driving a cute little Mercedes convertible. I don't care that I can eat sushi whenever I want. I don't feel like myself. I am so not me.

Cathy Heller:
And I decided I was going to quit and I quit my job, which I don't recommend to people. What I recommend to people now is that you build a runway and build a side hustle and validate your idea. And there's so many great tools and ways to do that so that you don't have to just jump. But I did. I couldn't take it. I just jumped.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was that like when you went in? You just went in one day and quit. Did you have overhead? Rent? You didn't have a family at the time, I assume.

Cathy Heller:
No, I was only 26. I quit and I thought to myself, oh by the time I run out of whatever tiny amount of savings I have from this job, I'm sure I'll be making money in music. And I saw that there was a whole world of musicians who were licensing their songs to TV shows, like Grey's Anatomy in One Tree Hill at the time and ads for McDonald's and Pepsi and Walmart. And I was like, what is this whole road? I wish I would've known about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking that now. I never even thought about that whole world. And you're just observing it and there's a business behind that.

Cathy Heller:
Oh, it's a huge business. And this article, this article was really opening my eyes. It was telling me that people in this field were making hundreds of thousands of dollars because ad agencies were paying the artists 50, 60, $70,000 a pop for just the use, just the license, not the ownership to use the song in an ad. And television shows were spending something like five or $10,000 per song in an episode. Of course it's more for an ad because there might be one retail ad for a campaign versus 22 episodes and six songs an episode, but still five or 10 grand to have your song used in a show or $50,000 to have your song used in a Walmart spot.

Cathy Heller:
I was getting pretty excited about that and so I made that decision that I would do everything I could to figure out who were the clients, who were the people choosing songs at Paramount and NBC and Lion's Gate and ad agencies like Ogilvy and Deutsche and McCann. Who were those people? And what did they need? And I had never asked myself that question before. Up until that moment, I thought that you either did something you loved that came completely from your heart or you built someone else's dream and you sold out. I never really understood that you could marry the two things, that you could be who you were and feel authentic and at the same time you could know that someone else has a need and a want and that you could answer that with your gifts. And then that's really how you make a living.

Cathy Heller:
And it made so much sense. All of a sudden it's like the lights went on and I thought, wow. And I started telling songwriter friends of mine who were starving and working jobs that they hated, barista jobs and insurance jobs, and I said to them, "Look, have you ever looked at this this way?" And they said, "Oh my gosh, you're going to be such a sell out. You're going to hate the music you write." And I said, "Oh my God."

Bobbi Rebell:
They said that?

Cathy Heller:
Oh, they had so much resistance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Cathy Heller:
Because people, especially artists believe that if you're really an artist, then you're probably starving because you're so authentic. And that definitely doesn't account for people like Michelangelo who died with $50 million to his name before inflation. He would be a billionaire today. It doesn't account for people like John Williams who's written all the scores to Star Wars and Jaws and all of these movies. It doesn't account for any of the people you've ever supported. Whether it's somebody concert, you go to a piece of art. Why? Because all of the people that I just mentioned are people who absolutely care what their customer, what their audience needs and wants.

Cathy Heller:
And I realize that the difference between a hobby and a business is that a hobby is something you do for you. But a business has to have at its core, radical, radical, radical empathy because it means that something that I'm doing in this world, someone else is going to value and they're going to pay me for it. I got that. And so I got excited. I actually got excited to find out how I could serve and I started to do the next thing which I tell people to do, which is I think everybody has Michael Jordan talent at something. But we're really missing momentum. And what we need to do is validate our ideas and we need to get feedback by going out and talking to human beings about what they need.

Cathy Heller:
And so I started to do that really scary, scary thing, which was pick up the phone and call Warner Brothers and call all these ad agencies and call Disney and call brands and ask questions about what kinds of campaigns, what kinds of stories they were telling, what kinds of things they needed musically. What kinds of sonic palettes. Did they like strings? Did they like ukuleles? Is the story this year about sisters? Is it about female empowerment? Is it about being there for someone? And people I am telling you, they were so happy to tell me what they needed. They were so happy that for the first time in a long time somebody reached out and it was refreshing to them that I wasn't calling to pitch myself and to read a script and try to be impressive.

Cathy Heller:
I was calling to ask what I could do to use my talent to help and long story short, within 18 months I started making $100,000 writing songs for film and TV and then that grew second and third year I started making $300,000 a year and then I got written about in Variety and Billboard and the LA Weekly and when I say written about, it wasn't a two line blurb about this girl who was writing music for film and TV. It was a full page story, not just digitally but in print magazines with a picture of me telling the story about how I was taking matters into my own hands and I was really successful.

“A hobby is something you do for you. But a business has to have at it’s core radical empathy. Because it means that something that I am doing in this world someone else is going to value and they are going to pay me for it.”

Cathy’s Money Lesson:

Cathy Heller:
You've got to validate your idea and I think what most people do is they think about businesses backwards where they think to themselves, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to sit in my little cave and I'm going to come up with this line of cupcakes or this jewelry I'm going to do or I'm going to write the whole book before they ever test it. Before they ever figure out who would buy this jewelry? Who would eat these cupcakes? And maybe I should go and in tandem with this person who I'm making it for, maybe I should be getting their input, getting feedback and then weaving that feedback into my process. I think that people just don't realize that we make it harder than it needs to be and if you look at any successful company, they are testing ideas all the time. They are paying for your feedback. They are doing focus groups because it works.

Cathy Heller:
And then this sounds really simple but it's usually really hard. You have to go out and tell people about your idea. You have to make sure that you're going out in the world and you are letting people know about it and instead of saying, "Well, I'm going to think about this and noodle around on my about page for 40 hours." No, it's pick up the phone and make the call. Let them know what's so awesome about what you're doing as opposed to telling them, how you do what you do. People forget that we don't buy things, we buy feelings, we buy results. And so often when you ask someone, "Tell me about the thing that you're creating or service you're offering." People sort of get tongue tied.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many people do you think you called for every time you place a song in the early years before you were known?

Cathy Heller:
It's hundreds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hundreds?

Cathy Heller:
Yeah. And when people would say no to me, and there were times that people not only said no, but said, "Don't ever send music like this. It's so mediocre." And instead of me being completely devastated, because obviously I wasn't completely devastated. I felt bad, I felt gross, I felt stupid sometimes. But I would take the feedback and I knew that I would give myself the grace to get better at it.

“I would take the feedback. And I would give myself the grace to get better at it.”

Cathy’s Money Tip:

Cathy Heller:
Yeah. My everyday money tip is something that I learned from Jen Sincero who wrote, You are a Badass. When she was on my podcast, she was living at 40 years old in a, she was living in a garage eating cans of tuna fish and she's like, something's got to change. And she did a bunch of self help stuff. And finally somebody said to her, why don't you write a letter to money? And she's like, what does that mean? And she wrote a letter to money and she was like, money, I hate you. Money, you're the reason for everyone's problems. And she realized at the end of the letter that she was carrying around feeling so much resistance to money because deep down money is something that she felt would make her less of a kind person. And that was a choice she didn't want to make. She didn't want to either have money and be a jerk or not have money, but she chose not having money if it meant she would have her integrity.

Cathy Heller:
And so I often tell people, "Why don't you write a letter to money?" Because sometimes what we find out is that at the root of it we might be sabotaging ourself because we might believe that money is something we feel shame around. If it's not shame for having it and being a jerk, sometimes it's shame like who am I to deserve to have good things? And when we can get to the root of that, it's very important because ultimately in life the results of our life, it has to do with what we really deep down want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can follow up and learn more about you and your podcast and your book and all things Cathy Heller.

“We don’t buy things. We buy feelings. We buy results.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Some of Cathy's best clients were the very ones who rejected her earlier in her career. When I asked Cathy about this after the interview, she explained that if she was being honest with herself, her work just was not that good initially when she pitched them. She had to get better at her craft. It's business. It's not personal. Early rejection is not forever rejection. Try to find out why your work wasn't accepted and then work on the work.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Cathy talked about how some of her musician friends called her a sellout. Look guys, making an honest living is not selling out. There is no glory in being a starving artist. It doesn't make you a better artist to not earn money. Nor by the way, is there any historical precedent for this over romanticized idea. Professional artists, Michelangelo, for example, died in 1564 at the age of 88. His net worth by many reports in the ballpark of $7 million.

Episode Links:

• Cathy's website - CathyHeller.com

• Cathy’s podcast Don’t Keep Your Day Job

• Cathy’s book Don’t Keep Your Day Job

Follow Cathy!

• Instagram - @cathy.heller

• Twitter - @NoDayJobs

• Facebook - @dontkeepyourdayjob

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When Hint CEO Kara Goldin started getting calls from celebrities about investing in her company, she quickly learned to make sure she only partnered with those who were authentically aligned with her brand values. Kara shares the story of why she said yes to John Legend, but took a pass on another big pop star. 

Kara'’s Money Story:

Kara Goldin:
Well one of our investors, probably the most famous of our investors is John Legend. I mean, John Legend, every time he's playing he a bottle of Hint on stage with him. And people always say, "How do you get John to do that?" I'm like, "I don't." I mean, John does it on his own. John just brings it up there because he loves drinking our product.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I have to ask you, how did John Legend become an investor?

Kara Goldin:
So John, actually, it was almost 10 years ago now that he reached out to us. He had been drinking Hint, actually in Starbucks. We were in all 11,000 Starbucks stores nationwide, and he had picked up a bottle and really enjoyed it. Then reached out to us, and I have to be honest, I didn't know who John was, and you know he's grown a lot in the last 10 years.

Kara Goldin:
He called just trying to understand if this was a product of Coke or Pepsi. He was surprised to hear that it wasn't, and that he was like, "Gosh, this is really good. You're not using sweeteners of any kind. You're not using preservatives of any kind. I think that you guys have an incredible mission that is sitting in front of you to really help people get healthy."

Kara Goldin:
And he's said, "I am super curious if you guys are taking on investments, I'd be really interested." So when we did our next round, I reached back out to him and I said, "I'm not sure if you're interested, but you know, in addition I really want to meet you," because that's a whole other piece that I wanted to meet everybody who's invested in our company as well.

Kara Goldin:
And so, I might not meet them on a monthly basis, but I think it's also a very important thing to really understand where these people are coming from and do they buy into your mission. I think that's really important.

Kara Goldin:
So yeah, so that was how John came on, and he's just been a huge advocate, and has been, even called by people who were thinking of investing in the brand that knew him as well, even before when they found out that he was an investor. He's just a great advocate and good reference too for what we're doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
We talk about different stakeholders and different investors and what they bring to the table. So with a celebrity investor like John Legend, what does that bring to the mix that is complimentary, that's different from just your average investor?

Kara Goldin:
It's interesting. I think the key thing that I share with other entrepreneurs who are raising money, about celebrities, whether that's a sports figure or an actor, or performer, is that, do they actually believe in your product? Do they drink your product? Right?

Kara Goldin:
Because I think that if they don't actually understand what you're doing, and if they aren't a fan already, it's very confusing to the consumer, and it looks phony. And so, gone are the days where you can pay a celebrity to do an endorsement and throw it up on a billboard and people actually believe it.

Kara Goldin:
And so, I think that there has been a shift in, "Let's go invest in these companies." But I still think there's a lot of these celebrities that are really just doing it and then they're not actually ... They don't believe in it, and they'll be walking down the street and drinking something that is totally counter, in the case of a beverage company, to sort of what you're doing.

Kara Goldin:
If you end up on TMZ and you're not really living the brand, then I think it's just really phony. So I think there's confusion to so many, like, "Do I take the money from these celebrities or not?" The sniff test, as I call it is, do they love the product already?

Kara Goldin:
I mean, we've had calls over the years from a lot of celebrities, and I'm always willing to send them a case if they haven't had Hint, and just see what their response is. If the response is, "Yeah. You know, they liked it okay." Then I'm like, "You have to love it. You have to really understand why we're doing this." Because for me, again, it's not just about having a great tasting product, it really is about a mission to really help people drink better tasting water. That's like a huge thing.

Kara Goldin:
I mean, I also just don't want people involved in the company who are going to ultimately do something to tarnish the brand, and that's really the challenge I think with celebrities overall. So that's the key thing.

Kara Goldin:
I think another piece that comes up for a lot of entrepreneurs, and we've never done it this way, but I've heard that there are celebrities out there that just want equity in the company and they don't put any money into the company because they believe they can help the brand in some way. I don't know, I think you really have to have skin in the game and put some kind of money into the company too, because if you're just getting equity in the company, it's probably a deal that you ultimately want to pass on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it's interesting because a lot of celebrities ... I mean I think about Ashton Kutcher and Bono, and they've done real investing for real ... The ones that from what I know, have been most successful, are the ones that really are putting their money into it and their time and their attention, and they believe in it. And it sounds like that's something in your case that Mr. Legend does do.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah, and I think, I mean, very similar to successful entrepreneurs today, I think that if you have an investor who doesn't know why they're investing, then you should not have them investing in your company. It's such a key thing. Like, if they're just investing because they've seen that John Legend invested and they want to ride the coattails of John. I don't know, I just think that that's like, they're too high profile and they will be asked along the way and they will be watched along the way.

Kara Goldin:
So again, I don't want to do anything for them that's going to tarnish their image either. So I think that's such a key piece. I feel like just because you're saying, "I don't want your money," it doesn't mean that you can't have them, in the case of Hint, drinking the product. Right?

Kara Goldin:
I think basically having the conversation with these people like "Look, we want to create a win-win here for you too, and if this is going to be uncomfortable for you."

Kara Goldin:
I'll never forget this one quick story. We had a celebrity approach us, actually an agent approached us, and he said, this individual singer loved Hint, and called me, and he said, "He loved it, he thinks it's really great."

Kara Goldin:
And I remember going home to my daughter and I said, "Gosh," like the singer you know, who will remain nameless, "just loved our product and thought it was really great." And I said, "We might actually do something with him he wants to invest," et cetera. And my daughter, who is a teenager, she knew exactly who he was, but she said, "Oh, that's really interesting." And she said, "Well, last year he did a deal," an endorsement deal, not an investment, but, "an endorsement deal with 7 Up."

Bobbi Rebell:
Which has a lot of sugar.

Kara Goldin:
Which has a lot of sugar in it. And I said, "Huh," I googled it and saw it was true. And unless he was willing to actually say like, "I've seen the light and I don't want to have sugar anymore and I found Hint," and he's able to tell us why and speak to it, then I just think it's affecting your own brand ultimately, and it will be like he could be ridiculed.

Kara Goldin:
Here a 14-year-old was telling me this, and I went back to this guy's agent and I said, "I have to tell you the story." And I told him what my daughter had said and he said, "Well, no matter where this conversation goes, could I please hire your daughter because she really understands this stuff?" So being careful about where you're taking an investment.

“Gone are the days where you can pay a celebrity to do an endorsement and throw it up on a billboard and people actually believe it”

Kara’s Money Lesson:

Kara Goldin:
I think the big takeaway is know where your money is coming from and how it could ultimately affect you down the road.

“Know where your money is coming from and how it could ultimately affect you down the road”

Kara’s Money Tip:

Bobbi Rebell:
So for your everyday money tip, you have some advice of some basically free or almost free things that people can do and get discounts on right at their own company that many people don't even pay attention to.

Kara Goldin:
Yeah. So it's the beginning of the year and, maybe you're looking at a new job opportunity. Definitely look for jobs that have equity potential because that's ownership in a company, that's almost free money to have in addition to your salary. So definitely look for opportunities like that. But if you're also in a company that does not offer equity, there's often stock incentive plans at discounted rates that you can join onto and participate in.

Kara Goldin:
And then in addition to that, there's all kinds of benefits internally, that just makes sure that you know about those things at the beginning of the year so that you're not stuck at the end of the year realizing that you left a bunch of money on the table.

“John Legend, every time he is playing, he has a bottle of Hint on stage with him and people always say, How do you get John to do that? I’m like, I don’t. John just bring it up there because he loves our product. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Has to do with taking money from investors or for just any reason from somebody where you need cash. Money has strings. That's why you pay interest to banks. They want something which they should get because they're lending you or giving you the money.

When you take money from someone or an entity, think about their angle. Are they giving you money to help you and/or what you are building, or do they have maybe an ulterior motive that you may not be in alignment with? Could they become a liability because you're affiliating with them, and depending on the terms, they could have a lot to say about the future of wherever that money is going.

Financial grownup tip number two:

There's a lot more to compensation than just the cash in your paycheck or from a client paying their bill. As Kara recommended, don't leave money on the table or wherever. Go read your HR website in full. It may not be boring and maybe kind of interesting.

Maybe take notes if you aren't going to do the things now, or if you are self-employed or a freelancer, read up on the tax code. Yeah, the tax code and what you can do to maximize benefits you may not even realize you were entitled to.

Look into groups that you can align with to get benefits. As an example, here in New York City, we have TDF, that stands for Theater Development Fund, and you can join if you fit a number of categories, one of which is freelancer, and that means you can get tickets for Broadway shows for as much as 70% off. That's a benefit, much like you would get when you work for a company. You also can get free membership, for example, to cultural institutions like museums by getting a New York City ID. So check what's available in your city.

Episode Links:

• Kara's website - www.drinkhint.com
  
  

Follow Kara!

• Instagram - @hint

• Twitter - @hint

• Facebook - @hint

• Pinterest - @hintwater
  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sadie Kurzban won $25,000 in a college contest for entrepreneurs by using a strategy that has continued to drive the growth of her boutique dance fitness chain. The millennial entrepreneur shares her secrets to building a business on a low budget, along with her personal tips on how she manages healthy meals on a budget with her relentless schedule.

Sadie’s Money Story:

Bobbi Rebell:
For your money story, you're going to actually talk to us about how you got the funding to start this, because you were just in college.

Sadie Kurzban:
I was, yes. I started teaching aerobics classes really for fun in college because I was passionate about it. I had always loved group fitness and I thought, well let me take my hand at giving this a try. So I was teaching it for fun and when I was thinking about what I wanted to do for my career around graduation, that my senior year my friend turned to me and she was like, "Girl, like this is your passion, you need to do this" and I was like, "What? I'm not going to graduate college and go be a fitness instructor".

Bobbi Rebell:
You were at Brown University by the way.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yes, I graduated top of my class. Everyone around me was getting a job in consulting. They were going to medical school, going to law school and I was like, "I think I should go do something like that". So I was like, "How am I going to go?" I even, I remember I looked up in Brown alumni who's in fitness, even just as a category and there was like one alumni from the 70's like it's just not a very popular thing to do. So, I was like, "God, I'm not going to go. Yeah, I have bigger ambitions than being a trainer". So she said, "Why don't you just start a business?" I was like, "What?" I had never even thought about starting a business, truly. This was right before senior year.

Sadie Kurzban:
We started looking up in the course curriculum, entrepreneurship, accounting, really we were kind of scrambling and I ended up majoring in economics, which was really funny and unexpected. But I took every entrepreneurship related, business related, accounting related. It was my entire senior year I was filled with these courses, studying my tail off and I entered the big annual business plan pitch competition. So it's a 10 minute pitch. It's all students, almost all the teams were all male. A lot of the teams were graduate students who had invented like incredible things like medical devices, like really impressive businesses and here I was, I was like, "I'm going to start this dance cardio workout. It has a DJ. It's really fun. This is why I should win". It was really surprising at the end of the day that I won, but it really was the sign from the universe that I needed to move to New York and make this happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why do you think you won? What was the differentiator?

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, I'll tell you why I think I won was that it's held in the school auditorium and it's a pretty nerdy competition. A lot of business majors, a lot of masters students that I got hundreds of kids who would come take my class every week. I said, "I'm entering this pitch competition. If you love these fitness classes I've been teaching, please come and cheer me on". So I packed the room. I mean, honestly, with 300, 400 students that were screaming their heads off for me. So I think the judges, while they thought, well maybe, I don't know if they felt this was the most impressive business, but what they definitely saw was I had proven the concept and I had really gotten a handful of ... More than a handful of really passionate evangelists. So they knew I was onto something and getting people super passionate about this early on has been the biggest gift and the biggest way that we've grown so quickly, as you know with limited resources, getting customers to really evangelize us and tell their friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and then you got the $25,000 to get going.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, it was enough to at least give me the confidence to move to New York and give myself nine months to try and make it happen.

Sadie’s Money Lesson:

Sadie Kurzban:
I think the biggest lesson there is, I didn't worry so much about all of the 'what if's' and the house and even moving to New York and all of these things and renting space. I just thought about how can I get every customer who walks in to really go back to their next dinner, to work the next day and talk about this like it's nobody's business, right? So with pretty limited resources, $25,000 in New York City is not a lot of money at all. I knew I didn't have a lot of room for error, but what I did have was customers in front of me every day and if I could get one person super jazzed about this, telling 10 people, that was free marketing for me. So I had to really deliver on the experience and most importantly stop worrying about all the 'what if's' and what could happen. Really think about that person in front of me and look at them as a real opportunity to keep just running through the doors that have been opened for me and breaking the glass ceiling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your instructors are really brand ambassadors.

Sadie Kurzban:
They are, yes. We all live in Brea, 305 and we know how important that client in front of us is.

Sadie’s Money Tip:

Sadie Kurzban:
So yeah, I was thinking a little bit about this because they listened to your show and I have to admit I'm not great at saving. I'm a little bit better at just creating things and I tend to kind of close my eyes and drive at the same time when it comes to money. But the one way that I really do, I think successfully saved is again, in a city like New York where it's really tempting to do seamless every night or go to dinner, that can really add up big time, like $30, $40 every night. So instead what I do is, I cook and I eat a lot of homemade meals or I'll pack it to the office. But the best thing that I found is really, instead of, it would just be so daunting to get home late at night and cook for myself every night this [inaudible 00:07:48] meal.

Sadie Kurzban:
So what I do is I cook a whole bunch on Sundays, like a bunch, as much as I can. I refrigerate enough for three days and then everything left over I freeze. So by the time the weekend rolls around, unfolding and I'm cooking again. So it's enough what I make on Sunday to really carry me through the week and within that what I've found is another tip within that is, that if I put all this pressure on myself to make these gourmet meals and I'm chopping onions and all these things, I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to wake up on Sunday and I'm going to think no way, no way. So instead I'll splurge a bit on the pain in the butt stuff like chopping onions, chopping garlic. This stuff that I know is going to come up in every recipe, I'll get those precut so I'll spend the extra dollar at trader Joe's knowing that someone else's has cut or a machine has cut the onions for me and that way I know I can make the meal in five minutes instead of taking me 15 minutes to make everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. That's so practical and it's also important because you aren't just sitting in an office, you actually go and teach these classes.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Sadie won that first $25,000 in college by doing something no one else did. She literally brought her own cheering section of happy clients. They were there to cheer for her, but they were also there with her. None of us can do everything alone. Sadie doesn't, she brings others along for the ride. If you do that in your life with anything, not just business, but anything that matters to you, include others, make them stakeholders in your success and also you can hear it in her voice, it just made it so much fun.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love Sadie's hybrid approach to cooking at home. You will not get a prize if you chop every single onion. It is more than okay to splurge and pay a little more to have some ingredients prepped for you so you're more likely to not only eat healthy but also not waste money ordering out and having food delivered. The key thing, and I'm still working on this myself, is the organizational element and the planning.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• 305 Fitness career opportunities

• Money with Friends podcast

• Sadie’s website - 305 Fitness

Follow Sadie!

• Instagram - @305fitness

• Twitter - @305fitness

• Facebook - @305fitness

• Pinterest - @305fitness

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sarah Larson Levey is becoming a familiar example of millennial entrepreneur success, recently being featured on the cover of Inc magazine and her company Y7 studio being named one of the magazine’s most inspiring companies last year. Keeping her costs at extreme minimal levels helped entrepreneur Sara Larson Levey grow her side hustle yoga startup while still working her full time job for two years.

Sarah's money story:

I actually was really unsatisfied with the yoga experiences that I was having throughout the city. It left me feeling really frustrated and lacking in what I was looking for. I wanted something where I could still move and sweat and get a really great workout in, but at the same time get that mental clarity that is touted for yoga. I just really couldn't find that so I decided to start my own place to practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's take it back a little. You're working in the fashion industry, you're married, you're in Brooklyn, you've got a job, you're busy, you're living your life. Most people, if they're not happy, they're going to fill out a form, a feedback form. You instead start a pop up. How does this happen and where does the money come from? Because you're 20 something, how old are you now?

Sarah L. Levey:
I'm 32 now. I was 26 at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most 26 year olds are dealing with other financial things. How did you literally start this? Where did the money come from? What did you do?

Sarah L. Levey:
The money came from my job. I have always been really good at saving. It was really just supposed to be a pop up at first, right? We found a super, super cheap space. We hired teachers off of Craigslist who are willing to work just to get the teaching experience and that was kind of it. As soon as we realized that this was going to be a thing that there were other people who resonated with the kind of yoga that we are providing, that's when I started looking for a little bit more of a permanent space.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things, and I know this as a student, the space is unique. Can you talk a little bit about that and also how do you pay for that? Especially in a pop up because there's a heat element to it. The studios are darkened. It's a very different atmosphere, so there's definitely some investing that has to go on when you set up a space.

Sarah L. Levey:
Yeah, I think for us, we really knew what we wanted and we were lucky enough to find a space that already didn't have windows. We brought in our own heaters and we rented it out by the hour. This space was actually a very large recording studio that was not used during morning hours on the weekends, and that's where we went in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's interesting because a lot of people don't think about that option to rent by the hour when you're starting a business. They might think you have to sign a lease for a longer period of time or come into a space. You were able to manage your cost that way.

Sarah L. Levey:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then how does it go? You have this pop up, how are you getting the word out and how do you start expanding and funding that expansion?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was all word of mouth. We would go out at like 4, 5:00 AM and just flier all over Williamsburg and Brooklyn where the first location was and that's how people came in. That was really all we did. It was all Instagram, Facebook and flyering around the neighborhood. We didn't have budget for anything. There was no budget to spare. Everything was being funded by my job and my husband's job at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get it to the next level? When do you feel you reached a critical point where you started thinking, this is really a thing and I might leave my job to do it? Because a side hustle doesn't always evolve.

Sarah L. Levey:
Right. It took a while. What's so great about New York is it is one of the few places where you can find a space that's willing to do a month to month or maybe do a split tenant kind of thing. We found a small 300 square foot space in an artist loft. All of the little suites were around 300 square feet. We paid a very, very small amount. Everything was included and we started out that way. The studio room could only fit 10 people maximum, and that's how we ran classes. We ran classes four a day before work and after work. I worked the front desk morning and night. My husband and I would switch off. The teachers were paid per student, so it was all dependent on them really getting the word out about their classes and bringing people in. We operated like that for a good nine months before we grew out of that space. Then we were fortunate enough to find another month to month space where we didn't really need to lay all this money out for security.

We were fortunate enough where the business was starting to generate enough cash that we could continue to float the business but that was it which is the reason that I continued working up until the spring of 2015. A good two years after we opened the studio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you and your husband having about money while this is going on? What was it like?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was interesting, it was the first time either of us had operated a business on a retail level. We didn't really know what we're doing, but I felt really confident that I didn't want to put classes on the schedule or do things around the studio that would put the vision of the experience in jeopardy. I wanted to always make sure we could pay rent, pay the teachers and also continue not to put pressure on ourselves so we could still do the things we wanted, have both really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the best thing you did in terms of financial decisions with the business and what's something that maybe you would do differently?

Sarah L. Levey:
That's a tough one because I love our journey so much. I think it's super interesting and an ode to really the fact that you can self-fund a business. We didn't take on private equity funding until we were six studios in and that was a choice on our part. It was definitely a little bit stressful but it was a choice we made so we could really hone the experience and not bring on partners who just had ideas to make more money, have a better cashflow. We were able to preserve the experience of the business. We included mat and towel at first and our laundry expenses were really, really high. I would have started charging for those immediately because we always felt the pinch around that. Other than that, I can't really see doing in another way.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you did take outside funding?

Sarah L. Levey:
We decided to take on outside funding to really be able to sign nicer spaces. If anyone has ever been to the Flatiron studio or the Union Square studio, those were studios that I painted the walls. I was the one on Craigslist finding people who could throw up a devising wall. We did all the electrical. We commissioned people to build the front desk or things like that. It was super, super bootstrapped. The more people that were coming in and out of the studio, we really wanted to have a little bit nicer amenities because it is hot yoga. We wanted to be able to have showers if we needed to and those things were really, really expensive. Taking on capital for us was a way to really open the doors to higher end retail spaces and have the money to invest in the build-outs.

Sarah’s money lesson:

I would say be realistic. It is totally okay to do two things at once and it's important, that way you don't lose sight of what your actual vision is. I think that if you're stressed about your personal finances, you're always going to be looking for ways to have your business make more money, right? Because you're feeling the pressure personally of like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? I think that's when people tend to lose the passion for their business because it becomes more of like, it's not growing fast enough, it's not doing what I want to do fast enough. A lot of good concepts take time and they take consistency to work. I would say just be really realistic and don't assume anything when you're planning. Don't assume things are going to work out exactly the way you want. There's always going to be hiccups and you have to be ready to combat that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an example of a hiccup that you can share?

Sarah L. Levey:
Oh yeah, of course. Our first Williamsburg studio was in the basement and there was a spring where we had a ton of snowstorms and then all of it melted and then it rained for like a week straight, the entire studio flooded. It cost us $20,000 which was a huge amount of money to us at the time. We had to replace all the floors, all the electrical. We had to redo basically the entire studio because of a flood. That's something that I never, I don't know, I'd never lived anywhere with a base. I don't know, it just didn't occur. It didn't occur to me and I was like, oh. I was like, I guess we have to close and do all this stuff. Then we had to get a mold check and just all of these things that you don't even think of. That was something that I was like, oh, okay, cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. Did you have insurance? Did you have insurance?

Sarah L. Levey:
Not at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but now you do.

Sarah L. Levey:
That is right. Lesson learned.

Sarah's everyday money tip:

Well, I used to all the time, purely out of convenience. I'm a big Postmates girl, I'm Postmating everything and then all of a sudden I was looking at my credit card bill. I was like, what am I spending so much money on? Everything was adding up. Once you do the delivery fee, you add the tip. I'm spending $30 on lunch every single day and it just adds up. Now I make a point where every Monday, I'm very lucky Whole Foods is directly across the street from our office. I stop at Whole Foods every Monday. I'll grab lettuce, vegetables, chicken, whatever it is so I have enough and I bring it to the office and I stick it in the fridge and it's basically like I have enough at the office to make lunch for myself every day. It takes so much pressure off of like making sure I order with enough time before I have to go to a meeting, being really stressed about it. It's here. I can make it when I need it and I'm set for the week.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips

1.Create additional stakeholders in your projects. Sarah empowered her initial round of teachers by paying them per students. The first win is that it saved Sarah on her cost, but the even more important thing it did was it rewarded the teachers for the impact that they made on the business. The more students they could bring, the more they made.

2.Buy insurance if you need it. Sarah blew it at first on this one. The flood sounds like it was a nightmare. Insurance would have cushioned the blow.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Sarah’s website - www.y7-studio.com

Follow Sarah and Y7!

• Facebook - @Y7Studio

• Twitter - @Y7Studio

• Instagram - @Y7Studio

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— and crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

How to Buy Art Like a Financial Grownup

The art market is intimidating for many of us. But it can be a great way to both invest or just collect pieces you love and want to enjoy having. Gallerist and art advisor Janis Cecil walks us through exactly how to get started, what to look for, and how to get the best price. 

Bobbi Rebell:

A lot of our listeners are very curious about investing in art and what it takes to get started, so I wanted to bring you on to kind of give us the inside scoop in, I hate to say a safe environment because so many galleries seem intimidating even as your friend walking into that beautiful space in Chelsea, it's vast. You see this stunning art on the wall and you don't really know how it all works. How does it work? How do you start buying art, Janis?

Janis Cecil:

The primary market are galleries that represent artists who are making art now, which they are then presenting and selling to the public. There are other types of galleries called secondary market galleries, which just specialize in selling works that had been sold before. These works were sold from an artist at one point and now they're back on the market, either because the owners decided to sell them for whatever reason. The three Ds are often thought of, which is death, divorce, or debt.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh my gosh.

Janis Cecil:

Sometimes people sell for those three reasons. Other times people just want to upgrade their collections or they've moved and they can't take their big painting with them. There are all sorts of reasons why people sell.

Bobbi Rebell:

So the first step is to figure out what you like? Let's say you're ready for a transaction. I know when I've gone in, for example, to your gallery, there is no price tag next to these paintings.

Janis Cecil:

That's true. Very observant, Bobbi. There is actually a rule in New York that galleries are supposed to have available a price list upon request. I would suggest that if there's something that someone likes in a gallery, just say, "Hi," either there'll be someone, a staff member of the gallery, it could be a sales director who will talk to you about prices, there could be a price list available upon request at the front desk at the gallery. Every gallery will be somewhat different about this. They may have someone come out and talk to the person who's asking about prices so that way they can give a fuller understanding of the artist and their career, and kind of help the viewer understand what they're looking at and how things are priced.

Janis Cecil:

A price that's quoted by the person at the gallery is somewhat negotiable, especially if it's primary market. An artist who is selling will have an agreement with the gallery where they split the proceeds from the work that's sold and usually there is between a five and a 15% discount that can be given to a buyer.

Bobbi Rebell:

What is the language that you would use to ask for that? I mean, what do you say?

Janis Cecil:

One of the negotiating tactics would be to say, "Hi, I really like this painting. What's the price?" Then someone tells you the price. You can say, "Well, is that the best you can do?" Or, "What do you think the best price is?" I think the nomenclature here would be best price. And then also there are things that can be negotiated, which could be, if it's a larger work that would cost money to send someplace, right? To ship somewhere, you can kind of negotiate shipping costs. Maybe the gallery can ship for free, or they can actually pay for the crating.

Janis Cecil:

Imagine now, paintings that are really expensive to build a crate that's actually museum, or where they that can travel across large distances costs thousands and thousands of dollars. In this case if you're buying something smaller or something that is less valuable, you could use something called a master pack box, which they can actually order and it'll fit their artwork perfectly and keep it super safe so it can be sent by Federal Express or another courier or hand-trucked.

Bobbi Rebell:

New York is somewhat of an art gallery every day and a fair every day because there's so many galleries, but many people do enjoy going to art fairs. I know I've gone to them and I've actually bought art at them. Tell me how those work differently from walking into a gallery.

Janis Cecil:

Okay. The art fair is kind of like the art buying experience on steroids. I mean, it is just all about the transaction and all about introducing people to new artists or to a new body of work they haven't seen by an artist. If you see something you like, I would advise going in and introducing yourself to whoever looks like they're in charge in that booth. I would just start a conversation and say, "Hi, I like this. Tell me about the artist. Where are they from? What's the material? What's the medium of this work I'm looking at? Is it an oil, is it acrylic, is it a watercolor?" If it's a sculpture, "What's it made out of?" And then they can talk to you about the artist's inspiration or their goals that they're trying to achieve with this work.

Bobbi Rebell:

And again, how negotiable is it? And does that negotiability change depending on how early or how late in the fair you're there?

Janis Cecil:

Yes, things are negotiable always. Again, I would go by the five to 15% rule remembering, of course, that there is no incentive necessarily for a gallery to give a discount to an artist that's super hot when they're pretty much going to sell everything out. They may not give discounts at all or they may decide, "Look, if a collector's coming to us and they buy it from us a lot, we're going to always give them kind of a 10% discount." It's going to depend, really depending on the artist that is of interest and the gallery where you're looking.

Janis Cecil:

And then at the end of the fair, so say the fair starts on a Wednesday, that's the VIP day. Then on Sunday comes and you could be at the end of the week when the fair's about the close, there could be perhaps more flexibility and prices just because the fair's almost over and they tried to sell things before they leave.

Bobbi Rebell:

Because it's expensive to ship things back, right?

Janis Cecil:

It is expensive to ship things back. Or you know what? Shipping things back when they're sold, everyone's happy to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Of course.

Janis Cecil:

Of course, they'd rather ship it to its next home.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes. Okay, are there things to look for if you're buying for what you love, that goes without saying, but if you're buying and you do hope that this will appreciate in value, so you're buying as an investment. What are some things that people should keep in mind?

Janis Cecil:

Things you're looking at are condition of the work. Doing homework, say on a database that records auction sales. That could be Live Art Auction, or Artnet, and looking at what other works of art have sold by that artist in similar years or similar media. And then also having a condition report and doing basic due diligence on what the work is being sold.

Bobbi Rebell:

How much of this is available online? What can people find out if they don't have access to an art expert like you?

Janis Cecil:

Well, there's a couple of different ways of doing this. Both Artsy and Artnet have auction records online. Artsy, also provides kind of more of a bio and understanding of where that artist's work is in the firmament of contemporary art today. So artsy.net and you would basically go on the site and say, "Okay, I'm interested in a painting by," let's say, the American Alex Katz, or, "I'm interested in a sculpture by," let's say, the British sculptor, Lynn Chadwick. Like, "What museums are this work in and what are the prices at auction? How do we find sculpture or paintings by these artists?"

Janis Cecil:

There's a whole way of doing that. There'll be galleries you can search, you can google the artist's name and see who represents the artist or the estate of the artist. And remembering that if you fall in love with something that's very, very expensive, say a Jasper Johns painting. Jasper Johns paintings will cost deca millions. Even if you love Jasper Johns, and you can't afford that, which by the way, most people cannot, you can still buy a beautiful work on paper by the artist or a limited edition print. Our firm in itself is really good in print making. It could be etchings, it could be lithographs, right? Like Warhol, silkscreens, all these things are ways to buy art by artists who are famous, who are eternally recognized and to make it affordable.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I was even looking at Blain Southern's website before we started recording and there's a lot of really accessible stuff as inexpensive, by the way, as when artists had a mug that was 10. It was 10 pounds in this case because it was from your British branch. But there's very affordable works and works that are from the artists, but as you said, they're editions, they're prints. That means there's not only one, but there's only one of the one that you have. That's right.

Janis Cecil:

And that's the edition of 50.

Bobbi Rebell:

Exactly.

Janis Cecil:

At the edition of 50 you will get your own edition number and it will be edition to of a 50, or 10 or 50. And there's something else to know, which is that most editions have what's called an artist's proof. Or in French you'd say [French 00:11:34], and so there'll be a limited edition say of 10 and then there could be two artists proofs. They're actually, it means there are 12 in existence, but the say, at the edition of 10 when you buy something it'll either be one of that 10, or it could be an artist proof if the artist does decide to sell them.

Janis Cecil:

Another way to find really beautiful limited editions is to shop at museum stores and I love museum stores because it's great. You're supporting artists, you're supporting the health of the institution when you buy from museum shops, and if you're a member at a museum then you also get a discount when you do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Even though you're buying this artist at a lower price point, a more accessible price point, it is fully work of that artist and could also appreciate. It is a limited edition. It is potentially an investment, it could be-

Janis Cecil:

Oh, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:

Nothing's ever guaranteed, but it is a way to buy these artists at much more affordable prices.

Janis Cecil:

Exactly. I mean Jasper Johns, Prince by Jasper Johns, when he made them were incredibly affordable. They are now worth over a million dollars. And the important thing when looking at art is to think about what is it that I can buy with the budget that I have. I'd rather buy one or two things a year that are really good quality that are representative of the artist. In other words, that means they're kind of emblematic of what the artist does, right?

Janis Cecil:

If you're wanting to buy a work by an artist who's famous for painting portraits, maybe if you're going to buy just one thing by that artist, buy something that's actually figurative, right? That represents a portrait or a person. And that's kind of what that artist is known for. Whereas what if you want to buy something like by the British artist, David Hockney, and he's known for doing interiors but also these incredibly lush landscapes. In that case, a landscape by David Hockney makes perfect sense.

Bobbi Rebell:

What should people do when they walk into the galleries and it's just dead quiet and they've just got, there's just somebody at the desk kind of staring at them. You can feel so awkward, Janis.

Janis Cecil:

Well, I mean, most front desk people that I've had anyone at the front desk, I've always encouraged them to be friendly and smile and be welcoming. I think it's just to say, "Hi," and then when you leave say, "Thank you." And if you're like, "Oh wow, I love that. Can you tell me more?" And if the front desk person is super busy or can't talk to you, then they'll usually get someone who can.

Bobbi Rebell:

Amazing. Such great advice.

Episode Links:

• artsy.net is free

• artnet.com is paid but there is a lot of free information

• The Art Dealers Association of America - www.artdealers.org

Follow Janis!

• Instagram - @janisgcecil

• Twitter - @JanisGCecil

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author, Podcast host and Entrepreneur magazine’s Editor in Chief Jason Feifer shares specifically how he raised his speaking fees, and confesses to a massive and very un-grownup recent financial blunder.

Jason’s Money Story:

Jason Feifer:
So I had done a lot of unpaid public speaking and then felt like it was time to actually start charging for this. And I didn't know how to because I was genuinely uncomfortable saying you should pay me for this. Actually, I just hadn't really done that. It's weird. I have been very successful in my career. I have a high profile job, but the ways that I've been paid have largely been these very established methods. I get a salary and that is it.

Jason Feifer:
And now here, I am telling someone, you have asked me to do a thing, I know that I could do it for free because I've done it before, and you probably know that too. But instead I'm going to set a very high fee and expect that you pay me that. And I was so uncomfortable doing that that I kept undervaluing myself. I had a friend who's in this industry who had told me what my value would be and I just literally couldn't say it to people. And so I was telling them half or a quarter of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did this evolve? So someone reaches out and says, Jason, we want you to speak at our events. What happens next?

Jason Feifer:
So here's how the conversation would start at the beginning of this. Somebody would invite me to their event and I would gush over the event. And I would tell them how excited I could be, and we would talk about literally everything except for money. And then, they would bring up the money, and then I would have a number in my head that I was supposed to say and that I couldn't say it, and I said something lower. And that is not what happens now. What happens now is that, very upfront, as soon as somebody reaches out to me, I say, do you have a speaker budget for this?

Jason Feifer:
And sometimes I will also say, do you ever speak your budget for this? I would do this for free if I could, but I have two kids and a very busy job and I can only do these kinds of things if there's compensation. Sometimes they don't. But oftentimes, they do. They say they have a budget and then they'll ask me what the budget is, or what my fee is, and I'll tell them. And I'm just really upfront about it because that is my worth, and I have over time taught myself that I am worth something and that there's no shame in being worth something. But it took a long time to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the tipping point?

Jason Feifer:
The tipping point was actually my wife getting extremely annoyed that I was leaving New York to go speak at these things and not getting as much as she thought I probably could get. But honestly, it was talking to other people and seeing what they were being paid and realizing that I was doing the same work, and I was I think better than a lot of them, and yet I was getting paid less. And that told me, most importantly, that I could stand up for my own value and I wouldn't put other people off.

Jason Feifer:
The thing is you don't know what the marketplace is and so you don't know what people are willing to pay and you are afraid. Everybody's afraid, I think, of showing themselves to be too full of hubris, and say I'm worth this crazy amount of money, and that people will look at you. It'd be like, no, you're actually just a jerk. But once you understand the marketplace and you get a sense of what people actually will pay, then you realize, Oh no, wait a second, I am valuable and I'm not being obnoxious in my value. I'm just being straightforward in my value.

Bobbi Rebell:
But how do you know what the marketplace is? And for example, in the market that you're talking about, which is speaking, which is very often doing keynote speeches, moderating panels, emceeing events. There's no database where everyone says what they make. How do you know?

Jason Feifer:
No, there's no database. I wish there was a database, but there are a lot of people who do it, or there are a lot of people who work with people who do it. And so, I just started asking everybody. Every single person who I interacted with at any event or just in the course of my work, we would start talking about speaking and I would just start asking them either, are you willing to share what you make or are you willing to share what the ballpark is for people in our range or whatever.

Jason Feifer:
Because the thing is that people do not volunteer this information upfront because I think oftentimes people are uncomfortable sharing numbers and being the one to broach that subject. But if you open up the door to it, a lot of people actually are fine sharing information because they understand that information is power for everybody. And if they share something with you, you'll share something with them. And just starting that conversation and having so many of those conversations, you start to triangulate what your value is or what other people did to get more valuable, which is also so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was that? What did people do to get more valuable?

Jason Feifer:
Well, one of the things that they did is that they did a lot of add ons. That was not something that was intuitive to me. So you would go to an event and you'd find some fee, but then you would start upselling people. You'd be like, I'd be happy to come in the evening before and have a dinner with your sponsors or whatever. I'm around. Is that something you'd be interested in because we could just throw on an additional fee for that? And people are happy to do it. And that's how I've upped my fee often for taking time that I would be... What would else would I be doing? I might as well be having dinner with somebody and making a little extra money.

Jason Feifer:
But yeah, it was a lot of add ons. I found that the key to the add ons is not just that you're willing to do stuff, but that you're showing them that you're invested in them and invested in helping their whatever it is be as successful as possible. And so, here they have an asset. The asset is you, and there are two ways that asset could be, it could either somebody who just blows through and doesn't really care and just collects the check or, someone who says, hey, I've invested, I care, I want to do what's great for you. It's going to cost a little bit more, but I'm there and I want to do it. And I think that they also want to pay me just because they like me and that matters.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you handle it when someone says, I don't have the budget that you're asking for it.

Jason Feifer:
So I take it on a case by case. Is it something that I really want to do? Is there some other value that I can extract from them? Because sometimes, there is. I could, for example say, Oh, I'll do it for this lesser fee that you're offering, but can you buy copies of my book? Can you buy some subscriptions to the magazine for people who are attending? Can you give me the email addresses of everyone in attendance so that I can follow up with them and maybe get them to sign up for my newsletter or whatever. If there's something that makes sense for me for other reasons and it doesn't really put me out, I'll do it for a little less.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?

“I have over time taught myself that I am worth something and there is no shame in being worth something but it took a long time to get there.”

Jason’s Money Lesson:

Jason Feifer:
The lesson is lead with value and be confident in your value. I hear from people a lot, if I could just turn it around as me as a recipient of people pitching, I hear from people a lot who want a lot of things from me. They're pitching me because they want me to write about their company or they're pitching me because they want me to assign them a story or whatever. And a phrase that they use all the time, I literally just read about this in the magazine, a phrase they use all the time when they write to me is, let me know if you ever need a dot dot dot. Let me know if you ever need a writer. Let me know if you ever need a good story. Let me know if you ever need a customer service solution or whatever it is.

Jason Feifer:
And that is a terrible, terrible way to pitch yourself because it actually puts the sales onus on me, the person who's supposed to be sold to. Now, I have to research them and go back to them and say, Oh, you know what I actually do. Here's the thing; nobody ever just needs a blah, blah, blah. They never do. I am full of writers. I am full of stories. I don't need any more of them. So why would I take any more of them? Because if somebody comes to me and isn't shy about their value and is instead value forward, if they understand what I'm looking for and what kind of value they can provide to me, if they're upfront about that and good at communicating that, then I see the value and I want the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such great advice. Let's move on to your everyday money tip because, Jason, you're being very brave. You're going to admit to having done something that you're no longer doing, right?

“I was doing the same work and I think better than they were and I was being paid less. And that told me that I could stand up for my own value and I wouldn’t put other people off.”

Jason’s Money Tip:

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your everyday money tip because, Jason, you're being very brave. You're going to admit to having done something that you're no longer doing, right?

Jason Feifer:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
... that costs you thousands of dollars. Tell us your everyday money. Thousands of dollars. Oh my goodness.

Jason Feifer:
I know. I'm so embarrassed and annoyed that I have done this. It is the most basic piece of advice. Look at your statements... Go through them line by line, your credit card statements. There were some services that I had signed up for that I either forgot about or in one case it was a fairly expensive service that I thought I had signed up for a month of, but it turns out it was a recurring fee.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, that's your worst nightmare. And can you get them to refund a few months back at least? Is there any recourse at that point? because you clearly weren't using it. Do you want to tell us what kind of thing it was? Was it a really expensive magazine, Jason?

Jason Feifer:
No, it was a social media management thing. It was $400 a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God. Oh my God. How many months did this go on, Jason?

Jason Feifer:
Ten.

Bobbi Rebell:
You didn't catch a $400 charge for ten months?

Jason Feifer:
No, I didn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jason.

Jason Feifer:
I know, it's awful. It's awful. And now you're like, what kind of completely irresponsible financial person is this? And the answer is that I do too many things myself and I have a number of different income streams from speaking and podcasting and I'm just throwing it all into the same account and I just wasn't being mindful of where the number was. And so there was this giant hole being poked in my finances, and it was just pouring out $400 a month.

Jason Feifer:
I contacted the company and they were not really willing to be helpful, and I've gotten in touch with the head guy. And he just kept putting me off and putting me off, and I can tell what's happening, which is that he's hoping that he is going to wait me out, and that I'm going to just give up on this and forget about it. And so, I literally have on my reminders app that tells me all the things that I should be doing. One of them is to keep texting this guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is unresolved right now. So you're not paying ongoing, but you've now paid 10 months, you paid $4,000 to this company?

Jason Feifer:
That's right, and I proposed a deal to them too, and I just haven't gotten the money back. I'm a little resolved to just eat it as a very, very expensive lesson in keeping tabs on your credit card forms. But I am also going to text this dude for the rest of my life demanding my money back.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you can automate that. So Jason's going to un-automate his bill paying and he's going to automate, I'm sure there's an app you can download that can charge you another monthly fee to automatically text this guy. I'm going to text him for you, too.

“If you open up the door to it, a lot of people actually are fine sharing information because they understand that information is power for everybody. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Like Jason did, work up the courage to ask, but also, as he did, keep it reasonable so you can get to the yes. People ask how I got such high profile people to be in my book, How To Be A Financial Grownup; those included Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank, designer Cynthia Rowley, and even Tony Robbins. A lot of it was simply working up the courage to ask, but I also kept the ask really simple. It was two questions, similar format to this podcast. You'll have more success if you ask for something that's easier for them to do.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Jason talks about add ons and up-selling. Not only does this bring in more money, it also provides more value for clients. Most important, it often strengthens the bond and creates a relationship where you're probably going to have a better shot at getting hired again. Play the long game.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jason’s website - www.jasonfeifer.com

Follow Jason!

• Instagram - @heyfeifer

• Facebook - @jasonfeifer

• Twitter - @heyfeifer

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When all her friends seemed to be buying houses, sculptor and novelist Georgia Lee Hussey took the plunge. She quickly realized how much she didn’t know about home ownership, credit scores, and adjustable mortgages- and how much it was going to cost her. But the way out of the debacle was also the way in to the career she never knew she always wanted. 

Georgia’s Money Story:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, thank you so much. It's fun to be able to talk about money stories, my favorite topic.

Bobbi Rebell:
let's get into that now. It has to do with your first real estate purchase, you were just 27 years old. Tell us your money story.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So, when I moved back to Portland from New York, I thought, well, I want to move back and I want to buy a house because everybody I know is buying houses. And they were telling me how it easy it was and how great it was and how much the values of the houses were going up. And it seemed too good to be true, and as we know, things that are too good to be true often are.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so I qualified for a mortgage ... You'll love this. I had a five 50 credit score, I had no money down and I had two loans. So I had one loan that I had a seven and a half percent fixed rate and then a second loan at an 11 and a half percent adjustable rate. And I literally did not know what any of that meant. So the process of buying this home as a single person and trying to figure out how to make the cash flow for that work when I was working basically a high-end sales job with irregular income, was quite an awakening to what it meant to be a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you were getting this loan, did the loan salesperson, for lack of a better word, did they explain any of this to you?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
You know, they may have, but it was such a blur because everything was new. I didn't know what any of the terms really meant. I'd never been around somebody who bought a house before. And I'm a pretty smart person and savvy, but not in the world of finance. So they may have explained it to me, but I was surprised two years later when I was trying to figure out what to do with the house and that I was going to have an adjustable rate. I literally didn't understand that about-

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was it before it adjusted?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
I think I had ... It was a three year ARM.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's short. Wow.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Ugh, God. As a CFP it just makes me cringe inside to think about that. Although I was very lucky, thanks to a lot of privilege to be able to get out of that house.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did it play out? So you're in this house, it becomes pretty clear that with your irregular income from a sales job, this is not sustainable. What happens?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Sure. So I did all the scrappy, punk rock, arty things that I had always done. I got renters, I rented my garage, I rented the extra bedrooms, I did work trade with people to paint it. And I was working in modern interior design, that's how I leveraged my sculpture background. And so I can make it look really good. So I was really leveraging the resources in my community, in my friend group to be able to do that.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
But as I was realizing the extent of the problem of not understanding how to budget really, because nobody I'd ever been around had budgeted. I started learning everything I could from basically personal finance blogs, which were the equivalent of personal finance podcasts in the early [inaudible 00:06:11]. And I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked. And so I just started teaching myself everything I could. And talking to my friends about it, because I was really surprised by how little I understood. And then I started talking with my friends and they were really ashamed that they didn't know either.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And that's really what struck me, was that these incredibly intelligent, successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money. And I think that's pretty intersectional. A lot of my friends were female, a lot of my friends were queer, a lot of my friends were creatives or artists of one kind or another. And all of us in our individual groups, has been disenfranchised from the world of wealth and wealth accumulation for a variety of reasons and a variety of money stories.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And so that really is what lit the fire under me to become a CFP, because I realized there were so many people who were being excluded from the financial world of stability and safety. And so I realized there had to be some job that did this. I was looking for a career change anyway, and I really loved the analytical element of money and the creativity of problem solving, which ... It's basically, my joke is that financial planning is exactly the same as installation sculpture, but it's just instead of using money, you're using clementines or glass or whatever your medium of choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, what happened with the house?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So, I had the house for three years, that was when I was starting to learn about the personal residency exclusion.

Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Yeah, so if you own a house and it's your personal residence and you sell it and you've lived in it, you are able to not have to take the gains on the sale. So there's a $250,000 exclusion. That was not going to be a problem that I had, I think I had a $10,000 gain on the house. It wasn't going to be a big deal. But if you don't live in the house at the sale, you have a certain period of time that the IRS can look back and tax you on the gain.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So I was renting the house, because I had moved in with my partner at that point and I realized that I sort of had a ... I had a moment where I had to either sell it or commit to renting it for the longterm. And I think that was really my first opportunity to analyze an investment and make a decision on whether this was a good choice to sell or hold. I ultimately decided that I wanted to sell because I did not like owning real estate, too much time and energy required to maintain it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you sold it at a slight profit?

Georgia Lee Hussey:
A tiny profit. But really if you look at how much money and energy I put into that house, it was basically a forced savings account with a very high rent.

“I realized how much structural ignorance I had about how money operated and how mortgages worked and how taxes worked and so I just started teaching myself everything I could.”

Georgia’s Money Lesson:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
Well, I think there's a couple. One is that self-efficacy is a skill that we built. I didn't know anything about money, but I was able to access information about money and how to build my own self-efficacy around this new skill set. So that's one thing. I would also say that identifying your money story is essential. Because when I was at the beginning of my journey, I was learning a lot of new skills around budgeting and money management. But until I paired that with the work I was doing in therapy around behavior change and personal awareness, I couldn't utilize those tools and structures very well. I wasn't utilizing them. I knew them, but I couldn't implement it. It's like a doctor saying, "You need to lose weight." And that's the only tool that we're given.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
And money is so emotional now, there's plenty of research now showing that all of our decisions are emotional and we just make them seem rational and logical. So once I understood that I had been told I couldn't be good with money as a creative and as a woman, I had been told that budgeting was dumb or not cool, that there were all these layers of money stories. Once I identified those and could pick them apart a bit, it was much easier for me to step into these structures with a sense of personal awareness and clarity about how they were going to serve me, and how they were going to help me change that story going forward.

“What struck me was that these incredibly intelligent successful creatives were as dumbfounded as I was by money. And I realized that nobody had taught us anything about money.”

Georgia’s Money Tip:

Georgia Lee Hussey:
There's a series of questions we ask our clients, and I would highly recommend asking your friends and family because we're heading into the holiday season. It's a great opportunity to have some more substantial conversations about what's important to us and what we value in the various relationship circles we live in.

Georgia Lee Hussey:
So one thing that I think is an interesting question is, what did your mother teach you about money? What did your father teach you about money? Often there are not explicit lessons, like sitting down and having the talk. But there are usually things we gather from watching the world around us, and they're usually different for each parent or guardian that we have in our life. And then I think it's really interesting to ask our parents, "What did your mom and your dad teach you?" And what do you think their moms and dads taught them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that part of it, because we often just relate to our own generation and one up, but if we have the opportunity, if we are with our parents and the older generations, ask them what they learned from their ancestors. Because we rarely get that and I know we don't have time to get into it now, but people can follow up and read in all the places you're interviewed, and I'll leave some links in our show notes, but you have a very interesting multigenerational story about money that really formed who you are today.

“Identifying your money story is essential.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't sign anything you don't understand, even if all the cool kids are doing it. Georgia's friends were buying homes and I'll bet most of them were just as clueless about what they were signing. No excuses, ask questions, read the documents. For those of you guys who have not been at a real estate closing, you write checks and everyone else leaves with checks that they cash. You are paying these people, make them explain everything. Don't let them rush you. You're the one who is paying, you are the one who is on the hook. I have not done this all the time, I have signed documents I have not known. You know what? I now know better, so I'm passing that knowledge onto you. Take the time, no matter how long it takes.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Speaking of friends, Georgia's decision to buy a home was influenced by her friends, who truly meant well. But beware of well-intentioned, pure influence, kind of a cousin to peer pressure. Your friends most likely don't know your actual full financial picture, including your goals, and you don't have to share it with them. When they encourage you to, for example, treat yourself to whatever, especially this holiday season, they mean well but they aren't paying. Thank them for their advice and support and just say you'll think about it to deflect any persistence.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Georgia’s website - modernistfinancial.com

Follow Georgia + Modernist Financial!

• Instagram - @modernistfinancial

• Facebook

• LinkedIn - @georgialeehussey

• LinkedIn - @modernist-financial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Black Friday can be a great time to kick off your holiday shopping and maximize your budget. Family Finance expert Andrea Woroch joins us with her best tips and favorite apps to get it down like a grownup. 

11 tips and tricks for Black Friday shopping

1. Derivative goods.

2. Misleading discount claims.

3. Sale price isn’t always the best price.

4. Save more with discount gift cards.

5. Some retailers promising best deals on Black Friday.

6. Beware of bundle deals and rebates.

7. Think about your impulse purchasing triggers.

8. Avoid extended warranty.

9. Watch out for fees.

10. What to buy, what to skip.

11. How to shop safely.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Andrea’s website - andreaworoch.com

• Parabis - The website where you can find out if stores owe you a refund - https://paribus.co

Follow Andrea!

• Instagram - @andreaworoch

• Facebook - @AndreaWoroch

• Twitter - @andreaworoch

• LinkedIn - @andreaworoch

• Pinterest - @andreaworoch

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur and author Teneshia Warner shares a childhood story of being paid less because she was female, and being told that it would always be that way- by her own grandmother. Teneshia also shares her advice on how to handle the dream bullies and previews her new book.

Teneshia’s Money Story:

Teneshia Warner:
All right, so The Big Stretch, I am thrilled about my second book. As you just mentioned, I'm the founder of The Dream Project, and I was able to take a lot of the key learnings from speaking to over 180,000 dreamers, iconic dreamers, as well as my own story, and put it in a book format of a 12 week dreamers bootcamp.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I can tell you the book literally lays it out in very easy to follow steps and there's a lot of accountability in the book. We're going to get to that soon, but I don't want to hesitate to get to your money story, because this is kind of an epic story. There's a big twist, it has to do with your great grandmother and a lesson she taught you. But the lesson she taught you was not the one that she intended to teach you. Go for it.

Teneshia Warner:
All right, so my money story, it actually dates back until I was a young kid. I was in the third grade, so think I'm eight or nine. I had an idea that I wanted to work the summer over at my great grandmother's farm. She owned a farm with hundreds of acres of land. And my uncle, who was also very younger, he's only five years older than me, I went to him, and his name was Gerald. I said, "Gerald, I have an idea. I think I can convince our grandma, [Osi 00:03:43], to allow us to work the farm and pay us versus pay other people."

Teneshia Warner:
So he was down for it. And I went over to my grandmother and I pitched her on this concept. You should keep the money in the family, let Gerald and I work for you this summer. And so I landed us a job, Bobbi. And we were working the farm. We would get to work around 4:30 AM. I would go with my grandmother and Gerald would go with my great grandfather. And for my great grandmother, we would go and get eggs out of the chicken coop, we would clean the porches, we would pick fresh vegetables, we had to cook dinner. I mean it was a long, long day. And then as for Gerald, he was doing things in the field like picking corn, all types of hard labor things.

Bobbi Rebell::
But you're both working.

Teneshia Warner:
We both are not only working, we are working hard. At the end of the day we're exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell::
So then comes payday.

Teneshia Warner:
Yes. So we do this for about two weeks and payday comes. Prior to this, I didn't negotiate how much she was going to pay us, I was just happy to have a summer job. And so she gave us these envelopes, and I didn't want to be rude and open it in front of her.

Teneshia Warner:
So we got in the car and we went back home. And we open our envelopes. So Gerald tore his envelope open and out comes this money that's folding. And then I tear my envelope open, and coins drop out.

Teneshia Warner:
And so I'm looking, and I'm like, wait a minute, something's wrong here. Where's my money? There was no money, there was not folding money in there. And so I went to my mom and I said, "I need you to take me back over to my great grandmother, Osi's house."

Teneshia Warner:
So she took me back and I said, "Hey you, you must have made a mistake because I don't have any folding dollars and I only have coins, so you didn't pay me the right amount." And we kind of went back and forth. She told me she was very clear on the amount that she paid me. And I kept pushing, pushing.

Teneshia Warner:
And then finally she said, "You know what, Neshia." She called me Neshia. "I'm not going to pay you the same amount that I paid Gerald, because the world is not going to do that." She said, "No matter what, girls do not make what boys make, and I'm not going to start doing that." Yes. So it really pierced my heart.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this was a statement, not a discussion.

Teneshia Warner:
This was a statement, yes. It was like, the end. And so I was really, really courageous with what I did next, Bobbi. I put my hands on my hip, I looked at her in the eyes and I said, "If you're not going to pay me what you pay Gerald, I need you to know I quit." And I took off running because she definitely believed in the rod and she would have spanked me, but it was worth it for me to stand up for myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did Gerald say?

Teneshia Warner:
So my dearest Gerald. Gerald felt sorry for me. However, Gerald continued to work and collected that check for the rest of the summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. And that folded money. And what did your mom say? And did you have any further discussions as you got older about this with any of the people involved?

Teneshia Warner:
So my mom, she's just awesome. I told her how I felt, and she told me that I did not have to go back and work there, that if I really wanted to quit, that I could. Hindsight looking back, I realized she really wanted to teach me a lesson, and she knew that that was going to give me an experience to stand up for myself and to actually demand my value, which leads me to, that's why it's my money story because one of my biggest lessons I took away from that, and that's, it's okay to demand your value and stand by that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the amazing thing is, that was not the lesson that your great grandmother was teaching you.

Teneshia Warner:
Absolutely not.

Bobbi Rebell:
She is from a different era, and we love our grandmas, but that was not the lesson that we want to teach people today. What is your lesson for our listeners from that story?

“It’s ok to demand your value and stand by that.”

Teneshia’s Money Lesson:

Teneshia Warner:
So my lesson for your listeners is, if you are a small business owner, and or, if you're working in corporate America, there comes a time that you have to be extremely comfortable with what you bring to the table and the value that's associated with that, and willing to negotiate based on that value, and not compromising that.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing in the book that I've asked you to talk about as your money tip, your everyday money tip is, how to do a dream detox specifically. If there are people in your life that are what you call a dream bullies, what do you do specifically to get rid of those people? Do you just ghost them? What do you do?

“When you have a dream and you have a big idea, it is important that you safeguard your dream.”

Teneshia’s Money Tip:

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing in the book that I've asked you to talk about as your money tip, your everyday money tip is, how to do a dream detox specifically. If there are people in your life that are what you call a dream bullies, what do you do specifically to get rid of those people? Do you just ghost them? What do you do?

Teneshia Warner:
Well, I definitely wouldn't say ghost them. Well, first, I think it's very important to know that when you have a dream, and you have a big idea, especially when you really originally get that idea, it's important that you safeguard your dream. So you have to become aware of who is in your circle.

Teneshia Warner:
Do you have a circle of dream champions? Champions reflect back to you the best of who you're becoming, they're going to reflect back to you the possibility that this dream can become a reality. And or, you have dream bullies. And dream bullies are those that are within our circle that potentially just cannot see the vision that you've been given for that dream. Sometimes your dream bully can be the people that are the closest to you, that actually love you the most, and they will actually try to protect you as you stretch to become more uncomfortable and to step outside of that comfort zone, you will find that you start to disrupt the comfort zone of sometimes the people that are really close to you.

Teneshia Warner:
Those individuals can sometimes want to protect you. Instead, they're becoming a dream bully. They're working against your vision. So for me, my best friend in the whole world is my grandmother. Not my great grandmother, but my grandmother. Her name is [Noretha Hearns and 00:09:24], and she is the biggest dream bully I've ever encountered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Teneshia Warner:
And so I've had to learn, when I have a big idea, and I have a concept, I don't share those visions with my grandmother because she's not going to support me in having them turn out. So for the listeners, how do you do a dream detox and how do you protect yourself from the bullies? Well, number one, first you need to identify who they are. Second, you need to alter your conversations accordingly. That's not the place to go and share your next big idea, that's not the place you call where you want to know, do I continue to go or do I stop?

Teneshia Warner:
And so it's not about cutting out dream bullies completely out of your life. I don't want you sort of ghosting everybody and then saying Teneshia and Bobbi told you to tell everybody peace out. No, that's not what we're saying. However, I will say it's about becoming conscious, and aware, and protecting your ideas and your dreams accordingly. And it may mean altering your relationships with the person, especially as you're in a season of birthing a new dream. You may not find yourself hanging out with the old best friend where you know you guys used to gossip, or you weren't doing anything productive. Maybe that's not the person that you will be spending the majority of your time with in this new season of bringing your dream to reality.

Teneshia Warner:
One of the things that you talk about in your book also is doing a time audit. Absolutely. And, Bobbi, you and I were just talking. You talked about the fact that your book was in Cosmo, or in these business magazines. It wasn't that it just appeared there, but you did a lot of hard work. And so the hard work that goes into where you invested your time. So when you have this idea and this dream, you need to also do a time audit to say what time can you get back, and work that time for you and your dream.

“Your big idea and your dream, I can 100% bet it is not going to dwell within the zip code of your comfort zone. You are going to have to stretch beyond that, and it is probably going to take some radical action.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally related to tenacious experiences with dream bullies. I probably had more bullies, as she calls it, than supporters when I announced, a few years ago, that I was going to write a book with candid and personal money stories from super successful people while working full time in media, with three kids and a husband, and of course a dog.

Bobbi Rebell:
People were not only skeptical, some made really hurtful comments, and I know there was chatter behind my back at work. It was pretty bad. They really thought I would never pull it off. I had some supporters, don't get me wrong, but I wish I had Teneshia in my corner back then. But she's right, sometimes it's better to just not share your plans with them early on, especially if you kind of know they're not going to be supportive.

Financial grownup tip number two:

Do a time audit, kind of like those weight loss diaries where if you're write it down, you see what's going on, and that act in and of itself will change your behavior, and you'll have a better focus and be able to better allocate your time. You become more accountable. Don't necessarily though, share it with those dream bullies.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Teneshia’s website - egamigroup.com

• Teneshia’s new book The Big Stretch

Follow Teneshia!

• Instagram - @teneshiajwarner

• Facebook - @teneshiajwarner

• Twitter - @teneshiajwarner

• LinkedIn - @teneshiajackson

• Pinterest - @dreamcreative

Follow Egami Group!

• Instagram - @egamigroup

• Facebook - @EgamiConsulting

• Twitter - @egamigroup

• LinkedIn - @egami-consulting-group

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books for financial grownups, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include Becoming Super Woman: A Simple 12-Step Plan to Go from Burnout to Balance by Nicole Lapin. Money for the Rest of Us: 10 Questions to Master Successful Investing by David Stein, and Pay off Your Debt for Good: 21 Days to Change Your Relationship with Money & Improve Your Sending Habits So You Can Get Out of Debt Fast by Jen Smith.  

Book #1: Becoming Super Woman: A Simple 12-Step Plan to Go from Burnout to Balance by Nicole Lapin

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-If you look at Nicole’s social media and the content she puts out- she looks like the total perfect person you and I will never be. This book gets real about what’s going on behind the scenes. It's a book about burnout from someone who not only has been totally burned out, but who admitted to being so burned out while writing the book about burnout that she delayed the books release. 

-while there is definitely the familiar take care of yourself vibe, Nicole gives extremely specific things you can do - including worksheets and exercises, to actually fix the problems and streamline your life. And some are super easy to do - but we just don’t seem to think of doing them- at least I don’t. Things as simple as deleting apps that waste time. Why not, It’s not like they won’t have you back. Remove the temptation. There’s a ton of simple obvious but not obvious stuff that will literally make you feel a weight off your shoulders. 

-She flips the switch on a lot of things we buy into. For example: don’t just have a to do list- have a done list so you can appreciate your progress. And I loved this Mark Twain quote she included- “never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.” Because seriously, the world will not end if you don’t do it all. 

Who is this book for? 

Besides this being an excellent book for you if you are feeling burned out- It’s also a book that your hyper over achievers friends could probably use- on the outside, but who you worry don’t know when to stop themselves. Rather than a direct intervention- gifting a book can be a subtle hint that you are worried they aren’t taking enough care of themselves. So on that note a great holiday gift book. 

Book #2: Money for the Rest of Us: 10 Questions to Master Successful Investing by David Stein

Here’s what I liked about the book: 

-David is a natural teacher but his style is inviting and accepting. He doesn’t keep it super simple- but he invites you to re-read chapters when the material is dense. This is not a page turner, and not a book you can read while multi-tasking- and because of that you will learn a lot from it. Stein will literally make you smarter. 

-The book speaks to all levels of investing- it is simple enough for beginners- who are willing to really focus. But the concepts are sometimes sophisticated which is something many mainstream books are lacking.

-David makes great use of storytelling, which can help bring complicated concepts to life and resonate with readers. 

Who is this book for? 

The book largely summarizes a lot of the concepts that fans of his podcast are already familiar with- but the written format and the way it is organized adds a new dimension.  

David is just really good at taking complicated topics and making making them accessible. A lot of books out there rehash the same lessons we’ve all heard- this book simply operates at a higher level, and the reader will literally know more about investing and be able to apply those lessons to their long term financial plans.  

Book #3: Pay off Your Debt for Good: 21 Days to Change Your Relationship with Money & Improve Your Sending Habits So You Can Get Out of Debt Fast by Jen Smith.

Here’s what I liked about it: 

-The focus of the book is on habits. There’s no quick fix here but there are proven strategies that are realistic. 

-Jen is sunshine on a cloudy day. Jen has a positivity about her that shines in her writing and can really motivate people in what is really an often depressing situation. Jen has herself paid off a mountain of debt 78-thousand dollars in jus 23 months- so she doesn’t judge- and her experience and empathy come through 

-This book is part of an ecosystem so there is complimentary support everywhere you turn, from the blog, to the email newsletter you can sign up for and of course the podcast. You feel like you are part of a community with a great cheerleader. 

Who is this book right for:

This is a book that is designed to solve a problem: debt. So if you have debt, this is for you. 

If you are part of the debt free community- or are working on what has come to be known as the FIRE movement- that stands for Financial Independence Retire Early- you are 100% the target audience here and you will love this book. That said, who can’t benefit from some no bs talk about getting rid of debt- or making sure you don’t get into debt. 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Nicole Lapin’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Becoming Super Woman: A Simple 12-Step Plan to Go from Burnout to Balance

David Stein’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Money for the Rest of Us: 10 Questions to Master Successful Investing

Jen Smith’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Pay off Your Debt for Good: 21 Days to Change Your Relationship with Money & Improve Your Sending Habits So You Can Get Out of Debt Fast

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.