Linda Davis Taylor looked like she had it all, but wanted to make more money. An unexpected meeting with the man who became her mentor took her out of her comfort zone, and into a role that would catapult her into a field where she made her mark, and inspired others to follow in her footsteps.

In Linda's money story you will learn:

We are actually the first investment advisory firm that was founded in the country, believe it or not, in 1915. Company's roots go back in this community over 100 years which makes it so much fun to work now with families who are in their fourth generation. We can see the 90 year olds, the 60 year olds, the 40 year olds and the 10 year olds in one meeting and it's just really rewarding to be in such a great community.

And community is really important. In fact a member of your community at the college you were working at 25 years ago is the focus of the money story that you are going to tell us, and it started with an appointment that was really you thought about his future, but it turned out to be about your future. Tell us your money story, Linda.

That's exactly right. This great gentleman who I knew a little bit then who became a lifelong mentor. I'll tell you more later, came into my office I thought to talk about the fact that he was retiring from his firm, and he looked me in the eye and he said, "I'm here because I want to change your trajectory and I want you to come and take over the leadership role in my firm," which was an investment firm which now is Clifford Swan.

Wow, and what were you doing? Explain more about what you were doing at the time and what your mindset was, because you weren't looking to make a change.

No. In fact I said to him, "Mr. Swan, I barely know the difference between a stock and the bond. How would I ever become a leader in the investment firm?"

I was in the higher ed environment, I'd been there for 25 years. I was a college admissions dean, I worked with all kinds of young kids going to college then I moved into philanthropy. I was working at this awesome women's college, where his wife was a graduate, and I was talking to women about philanthropy, which of course is connected with money, but in no way did I have the aspiration to think that I could make a switch from education to finance, and that's what he came in my office to talk to me about.

Was it a question of self-doubt, imposter syndrome? Talk about the gears in your mind at that point? What were you thinking?

I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me, but what I realized is that I really wanted to make more money, and he was the person who made me think, "That's great. That's not only okay, that's terrific, and it's great to have an aspiration about money if you're a woman."

How much of your feeling that you wanted to make more money were you holding back, you think, because you were a woman? Were you still tied to the often self-imposed rules that we put on ourselves?

I was the daughter of an entrepreneur, but I was told at that phase and that part of the country it's fine for you to be in education or maybe be a nurse, but you can't go into the family business because that's not what girls do.

Wow. Okay, so what clicked in your mind that you said, "You know what? Maybe I am going to do this."

I thought to myself, "If I don't go out of this office and follow this incredible opportunity ... This man has literally climbed into my office and said, 'How about do this?' If I don't do this now, I don't know if I'll have that opportunity again."

So I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step.

All right, so what happened? You just quit and left and started ...? What was it like starting?

It was very challenging because I did not have on paper the skills to do that job, so I entered then the financial world, mostly men, they thought, "What is this woman from a college doing here?" So it took me a lot of determination but also his support to be able to make that successful transition.

Having that male mentor, this goes ... I mean, we talk about a lot the importance of men to get women and help women to achieve what they can achieve. But it's not just for women, men play a very important role in this, and the fact that he had the faith in you and pushed you to do what you were capable of I think is important to note.

Absolutely, and probably true in many fields. At the time, this was 20 years ago, it was absolutely true in the field of finance that without a male successful financial entrepreneur, I don't think it could've happened and someone as determined, as passionate as this particular man who became my champion in that transition.

What I now know is that 20 years later, I see myself as a financial mentor, particularly to young women, but he was that to me, every week. And he retired from the firm after six months and he was not there day-to-day, but every week for the next 20 years we had breakfast and what he was doing gradually, over time, is teaching me, teaching me not so much how to be a CEO, but teaching me what it really means to have competence and confidence about money and to be aspirational about it, and I realized that a mentoring is not about one or two meetings, but it's about long-term really being consistent and building in that kind of, again, competence and confidence.

He passed away about a year ago. I miss him every day, but when I think about him I think of this Mark Twain quote that's very simple, and it said, "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambition, because small people always do that. The really great make you feel that you too can be great."

And I think we all need that. I think a lot of women need that. He did that for me, made me feel competent and confident about having those kind of aspirations, and my dreams and my ideas and my talents were really on target. I just needed to take it up and do it. So he became a lifelong mentor and now I think it's my turn to do that in whatever way I can.

“I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me but what I realized was that I wanted to make more money”

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

Find a financial mentor. You just have to find one. I think it's still very, very hard, particularly for women, to understand what their own fears or lack of confidence or what they feel about money. The financial industry does not make it easy to understand it, and that financial mentor, not just a mentor in general but someone who we can really be honest with and can tell us things like Mr. Swan did, don't have a lot of debt. The moment you get out of debt is when you really start being financially secure. Things about being careful with your spending, all of these things over time, find a financial mentor.

“I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step” 

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:

So my big one is, don't purchase any snacks on the go when you're thinking about those snacks, those extra drinks. It just adds unneeded calories frankly, and it wastes money, so no snacks on the go.

Very well said. Could you give some examples of the temptations that you pass up on? Was there anything that happened that changed your mind that you had an aha moment about this, or have you always been this way?

In the morning before your commute it's tempting to go buy coffee, tea or snack of your choice. When you're in an airport, walk on by, don't get that stuff and take it on the plane. When it's late at night in a hotel, stay out of the minibar, no potato chips, no chocolate chip cookies. Those are the things that tempt me and I just have to say, "No, I don't need it. It's going to be five extra dollars on my bill and 500 extra calories."

“Mentoring is not about one or two meetings. It is about long term really being consistent and building in .. competence and confidence.”

In My Take you will learn:

Here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one: Find mentors early and often. For Linda, she had one that made a huge difference. That doesn't always happen. For most of us it may be several in different stages of our careers and for different purposes.

When I wrote How to be a Financial Grownup, I went on what I now call my mentor-ter, asking successful people that I admire to just meet with me and talk about themselves. The information that I learned was life-changing and it became the foundation for my book and now this podcast.

Financial Grownup tip number two: Linda's everyday money tip is one of my favorites ever because so many of us, and yeah, I'm looking in the mirror, so many of us cave to those little treats especially when we are traveling. So here's one thing that I've learned to do that at least cuts off one major super unnecessary tip and that is, if you're traveling and you're buying food somewhere, you don't necessarily need to buy that bottle of water. If you're buying something else, it's a little weird if you go up if you're not buying anything else, but if you're already buying food, it's kind of okay to go up to the counter and say, "Oh, can I just get a cup with ice and water?"

Most of the time they're pretty happy to give it to you, and especially if you have a kid with you, forget it, they will definitely do it. So try it. You'll usually save five bucks on a bottle of water that is so unnecessary to pay for.

Episode Links:

• One of my favorite apps: Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They call these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

• www.CliffordSwan.com

• Linda’s book The Business of Family: How to Stay Rich for Generations

• Check out Linda's website - www.LindaDavisTaylor.com

• Follow Linda!

  • LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author and workplace strategist Lindsey Pollack shares a negotiation story with a big twist and a surprise ending. Plus how we often fail ourselves in negotiations by not using simple techniques when putting together deals, and how we can learn to up our game. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

So my money story goes back to before I wrote all those books and had the lovely credentials that you shared. About 10 years ago, I was speaking on college campuses to students about getting jobs and I really wanted to elevate my business to the next level. And so I wanted to connect with a large brand that would help me raise my image and get into the corporate market.

And through a connection of a connection of a connection, I ended up having the opportunity to pitch a major social network. And my pitch to them was that I wanted to run a series of webinars to campus career centers to teach them how to use this social network and get their students to use it for their career success. You can probably guess which network it was.

And I had no platform. I had no reputation. I had nothing to offer. And so what I did -

Let me just ask you, how had you even been connected to them?

I was so set on a couple of different companies wanting to work with that I asked everyone that I knew, "Hey, do you know anyone at this company?" And it took one full year, Bobbi and finally, a friend of a friend worked out in Silicon Valley and said, "I know someone there, I'm willing to make an introduction." So I asked until I finally got a yes.

So you had already invested quite a bit of time and energy in this and a lot of tenacity. Okay. So now you get your moment, keep going.

Okay. So I got my moment and I wrote up a huge fancy proposal that I was really proud of and I thought, "How am I going to price this?" They don't know me. I did not want to do it for free. And so what I did, was I came up with two tiers. I came up with the tier that was a very, very low investment for this company to pay me to start this webinar and run it.

And then I came up with a really, really high number and said, "If I can train 5000 people in two months. If 5000 people signed up to take this webinar in two months, you'll pay me this number." And they agreed to it because they basically had nothing to lose because the first number was really small.

Well I mean you've transferred all of the risk. You're taking on all the risk if the project were to not go well. They basically don't have much at stake. The payment from them would be so small. But of course, you are getting huge reward if it goes well which of course I know it does. But keep going.

It went well. I did everything humanly possible to get 5000 people to sign up for those webinars. And I do want to give credit that I had a very warm introduction. So I think that network and connection really helped. But I worked like crazy to get those people to sign up. I made the number. And the best part of the story is that I continued to work with that company for six more years. So I think by proving myself at the beginning, I was able to start the relationship off right and it truly was a game-changer for my business.

In Lindsey’s money lesson you will learn:

I think there are two lessons. One is to be really clear on what you want and if you get the introduction you want or if you get the opportunity you want, how are you going to turn it into something big. I think a lot of people say they want success or they want to write a book or they want to get their script produced. But once you have the opportunity in front of you, what are you going to do to make sure that you get a yes. And I can't say I knew at the time that this would be such a lesson but it was so empowering to know that I was willing to put everything on the table and work tenaciously, as you said, to get it. So know what you want and really think about how you can get the other side to say yes. Even if it means that you have to put some risk on the table.

You also mentioned the term a warm introduction. Can you talk more about how that came about, how that comes about, how people can get that more, and the importance of the kind introduction that you get? The nuance there.

Absolutely. And Bobbi, you are such a good practitioner of this generously making introductions for people you know and trust. I think that it's really easy to connect with someone today, whether it's on a social network, whether it's sending an email, finding somebody's phone number. That's easy. What's harder is standing out from the crowd. And I think the way to do that is when you have a person, a human being, who knows and trusts you who always knows and is trusted by the person you want to meet.

So I don't think it was just me and my proposal that got that company to say yes. I think it was the fact that someone who they trusted and vouched for me was able to make that introduction. You know we live in a world of a lot of connections but that true trusted connection, I think is more valuable than ever. That to me is a warm connection.

In Lindsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

I am laughing that my money story is about how great of a negotiator I am because it took me so long to learn how to improve my negotiation skills and my best negotiation tip is silence.

So why? We let there be a moment of silence there so everyone could think about that.

Silence is really uncomfortable. And I'm so glad you let that moment linger because it shows how much anyone wants to desperately make that silence go away. And so what I used to do, when I first started out as a speaker or as an author, was say something like, "Bobbi, the price of my speech is $1000." And if there was a nanosecond of silence, I would say, "But if you only want to pay 750 that's okay." Because I was so uncomfortable with the silence.

So letting a number sit there. Asking somebody, even if you're on the phone with your mobile phone provider saying, "Is that the best you can do? Can you offer me a different rate?" We jump in too quickly and say, "Or not, that's okay. Forget it." Letting that silence linger is so hard and has been a huge challenge for me but it is my best money tip to not talk myself down or lose an opportunity to get a better price because I'm not willing to sit with silence.

Can you recall any time that was super effective using that technique? Can you give us an example?

Oh, everyday when I'm negotiating for my business. As I've gotten more successful as a speaker, I've raised my prices. And probably the hardest one to do is to raise a price on an existing valued client. But over time, it's really a necessity to grow your business.

I had to say to someone just the other day, "I've raised my prices by 15%. I know that we've always been at X number. The new number is this." And I so wanted to say, "But if you don't want to pay that's okay." Or, "I know that might be challenging." But I just said it, I let it sit there and the person said, "Okay."

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip number one: Lindsey talked about warm introductions and I could not agree more. But how do you get started? Well the most important thing is to reach out and ask people in your industry or even just friends and family and just casual conversation to tell you more about what they're working on, what their goals are, and lead into how you might be able to help them. Don't be overly aggressive. But be creative. Are there things that you could do? And then follow up. And this is the most important thing. Don't ask them for anything in return.

The crazy thing that I have found is that the people that have come forward on my behalf and made introductions for me, aren't always the ones that I have helped. It's not always linear. In fact, it rarely is. Very often the people helping me are people that aren't necessarily in my closest circles. They're people that I've met through my life that I've stayed in touch with. Maybe a quick email every six months, a quick coffee date once or twice a year. That kind of thing. And just being in touch with them and being considerate of what they're going through and what their needs are, maybe they'll think of you when an opportunity that's appropriate for you comes about. Or maybe they'll be there for you if you want an introduction to someone that they know. Be patient. If you give, you will receive.

Financial Grownup Tip number two: Lindsey's book is so full of great tips for us. She shared a couple, but I wanted to give a little bit more. So here are some other tips from Lindsey.

First of all, if you can work up the courage and feel comfortable and if you don't then get comfortable, do this, work up to this. Ask your boss to CC you on emails even when you don't need to be directly involved. It's going to give you insights into things that are going on in your company beyond your immediate duties, give you a wider perspective.

Lindsey also suggests sending video emails on occasion instead of writing out what you want to say. Just film a quick video and attach it to an email. It can be very effective.

One more final tip: Remix your meetings. Just try sitting in different seats than you usually do and that could actually change the group dynamic and maybe the group think. Come up with some different ideas or just give you a little more energy in your day.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Check out Lindsey's website - www.LindseyPollak.com

• Lindsey's new book The Remix

Follow Lindsey!

• Instagram - @LindseyPollak

• Facebook - @LindseyPollakAuthor

• Twitter - @LindseyPollak

• LinkedIn - @LindseyPollak

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

As a child, Joan Kuhl watched her single mom face severe financial discrimination. She shares the story of how this could have prevented the family from buying a home, and how it inspired her to become an advocate and mentor for women in the workplace. Plus money tips and  a preview of her new book “Dig Your Heels In”.

In Joan's money story you will learn:

• The important role her single mother played in her life

• The reason she felt like her mother was great role model

• Why her mother was charged more money for mortgage as a single parent

• The reason her mother believed it was important to know how to negotiate

“There are so many men that are coming to the table saying I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that is fair.“

In Joan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Know what you deserve

"We’re never going to really achieve this inclusive culture in the workplace if we don’t dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve"

In Joan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How Joan's $200 cash rule can really help you to put your spending into perspective

"They were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was. I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.“

In My Take you will learn:

• You can’t just say “I quit” and make it happen. There’s a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job. So tread carefully before you jump. Also read her book.
  

• Keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others are saying.

Episode Links:

Joan's book Dig Your Heels In can also be bought here on Amazon

Check out Joan's website -

www.JoanKuhl.com

Follow Joan!

• Instagram - @JoanKuhl

• Twitter - @JoanKuhl

• Facebook - @JoanKuhlSpeaker

• LinkedIn - @JoanKuhl
  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joan Kuhl:
I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grownup,” and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there today. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You may want to go back and replay that opening quote, it really happened, and yes, it is unbelievable. Welcome all, and to our new listeners, so glad you found us. Take a minute please, make sure you're subscribed, and say hi on the socials to let me know that you're here, RobbiRebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi on Twitter. Let's get to our guest, John Kuhl. K-U-H-L, Kuhl. She is the founder of "Why Millennials Matter" and the author of "Misunderstood Millennial Talent." Her latest book, which we're going to be talking about, is “Dig Your Heels In,” and when you hear in our interview about the incredible experiences her mom had, that's who she was talking about at the opening of the show, you're going to truly appreciate what a great role model Joan had in her mom and what a great role model Joan is. Here is Joan Kuhl.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Joan Kuhl, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Joan Kuhl:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm excited to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited, because I got a sneak peek at your new book "Dig Your Heels In." You are both a speaker, you're a consultant, you founded "Why Millennial's Matter and also "Courage to Stay," and as I've mentioned, now you've got "Dig Your Heels In", which is really about how to navigate, I don't know, we try to keep the E off the show, so I'm just going to say the corporate BS and build the company that you deserve, which is a book long overdue. I wish, we were talking [inaudible 00:02:19] like I wish I had this book when I had my corporate jobs, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
I know. Well, I'm here now, and so this is to empower the women that are working right now and make sure we pave the way for the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Speaking of next generation, you learned so much from your mom.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. So observing a mom that was really trying to build a better life for us, I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk. So ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait, they charged her more money because she had one income as a single mother, therefore she should pay more?

Joan Kuhl:
Yup. They lobbed on extra points onto her interest, her mortgage rate just because they considered her high risk, and like it was little things like that that I observed. It wasn't until I was older and we had those conversations when I was going after my first job offer and she was really in my corner saying "Negotiate, read everything in details," because I think that's when we started to understand some of the discrimination against women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people don't realize, we take this for granted that as a woman you could own a home, but this was really revolutionary, and I guess that's why they were able to pay, make her pay more. I mean, you talk about the pink tax.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, it's funny, this, a lot of this connects into why I wrote "Dig Your Heels In," even just thinking about the decisions that women make and sometimes feel forced to make because they're in a male dominated situation or a situation ripe with bias, so yeah, of course ... My mother was actually a teacher, and then she became a secre- she had multiple jobs, she was a secretary and she was trying to get an advanced degree, and then she was logging miles to get her pilots license, ultimately to get her in the door to become an air traffic controller, because she was kind of studying these fields that she thought she had the skills to transition into that would give her a higher income, and ultimately triple her income from being an inner city school teacher. So it's just things like that that really inspired me "Okay, well women should be able to go after what we want, but we should also not be pushed out of fields that we love or companies that we work so hard to get in the door of because we're not being paid equally."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and so there's the double irony. So she wasn't able to be paid equally to men, and yet she was being forced to pay more at the time than them. When she had this situation with for example the mortgage, at that time did she have any recourse? Was she able to negotiate at all or was it "If you want a mortgage, this is what it is?"

Joan Kuhl:
"This is what it is." It's funny, and now like I've seen over probably since my early teens, my mom will negotiate anything, even at an Anne Taylor in the mall, with her phone bills, and I think it was because of those experiences where she felt so scared, right? She's got like, even though I saw her as brave and courageous, you have a fear when you're a single parent of like, she just finally got the money to get us into a better home, you know, why would she risk not getting the loan approved just because they were discriminating against her in terms of the rate?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's incredible. So what is the lesson for our listeners from this story? Obviously, first of all always negotiate, but what do you think your lesson would be and what would your mom's lesson be?

Joan Kuhl:
Well, I think it is absolutely know what we deserve, and so I think it is not, sometimes when we are in a situation where we do think somebody might have more knowledge than us, so that's a situation where you're going for a home loan or something, and you think "Oh, well this person has the expertise, they have the credibility, and if they're pushing back on something I'm asking for maybe there's a legitimate reason," I wouldn't let it stop there. I think that's why there's so many amazing organizations right now of women talking to each other. One of the biggest things I've learned from my mom is we have to talk about money. One story I'll quickly share with you, I felt competent negotiation my salary and asking for a higher salary than most people when I graduated from college because of the net my friends that were guys that graduated the year before and were getting recruited by all these big consulting firms, they were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was, but I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's amazing. What kind of reaction did you get when you asked for those higher numbers?

Joan Kuhl:
I will never forget sitting in front of this woman, and it was actually a hotel management company, and I told her and she literally laughed at me. She was so condescending, like she could not believe I had the gall [inaudible 00:06:39]-

Bobbi Rebell:
A woman?

Joan Kuhl:
A woman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, and it happens, right? And I said to her, and I just started spouting off, I'm like "This company, this company, Deloitte, Accenture, Price Waterhouse Coopers, all these companies, and this is the kind of benefits they offer, and I've, I'm in the final rounds of interviews with them too, so I also know I'm the number one candidate for this job." And this is where I always laugh when they say millennials are entitled. I think that anyone that's young that kind of has the [foreign language 00:07:02] to say "This is what I know is the market value, and I'm going to ..." And I already knew that I work my butt off wherever I went, and so I always felt that gave me the confidence to say "Hey, this is what I believe I'm worth," and also "Hi, look how much it costs to go to school these days."

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting, the men will discuss money as a way of bragging, but very often women don't discuss it at all.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, exactly. I even just remember when we were at graduation and my mom was so proud, and my godmother came with her too to my, and I was the speaker at my graduation, huge university, University of Pittsburgh for the College of Business, and a couple of my girlfriends that we were all, had been presidents of clubs and had multiple job offers, our parents were like so excited talking to each other, and we were so embarrassed that they were talking about that we had these jobs, or the amount of money, or what the salaries were, whereas we knew that all the guys around us were like high fiving, they were telling their older brothers, ever- it was just, it's this strange thing that we feel like we have to shrink ourselves versus just talk about something that allows us to really feel on a level playing field.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's I think where men can actually be our partners and our assets, because we are their daughters, their wives, their friends, their girlfriends, their sisters, their nieces and so on, and they want to support us, so I think it's great that you really got support and information from your male friends and classmates to get that better offer, and that's why it's really an issue for everyone, and I think it's important that it be addressed that men can be our best advocates and our best assets in this as well.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, I've [inaudible 00:08:47] a lot of men and allies programs, and healthcare companies and sports companies, and there are so many men that are coming to the table saying "I want, I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be a part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that's fair and access, equally accessible to advancement, anything that we want."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. Let's move on to your everyday money tip Joan, because this is something we can all relate to, but we don't always do, and we should. Go for it.

Joan Kuhl:
So I have this 200 dollar cash rule that kind of by happenstance became a trick that I use, and I think it was because A, I used to realize I never had cash on me all the time, and living in New York City it's a must have, but it also allows me to see where unexpected things come up. So now as a mother, I have a five and a one-year-old, you've got birthday parties, or there's sometimes where, I always try to save and take public transportation, buses and subways, pride myself on that, but I look at the 200 dollar rule, I take it out on the first of the month, like I took it out this morning, and guess what, unfortunately today I got my hair done this morning, so I'm halfway done with that, with-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:09:51].

Joan Kuhl:
[crosstalk 00:09:51] dollars cash. Yeah, but that's the thing, I always say "Okay, this is my barometer of like how well I'm planning for my expenses." It's not like budgeting, but things come up like the birthday gifts or, you know, my daughter needs something extra for an after school activity, or I am like "You know what? I want to go out tonight and I didn't plan for it." So that's kind of my rule, is just looking at where the cash goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really important, because it also gives you an indication if that's how fast your actual cash is going, which can feel more painful, think how much is going that's sort of just automated in your life, that's being sucked out of your bank accounts for all of this bills, which we should automate of course, but we don't really feel it the same way. At least with the cash you're feeling it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book "Dig Your Heels In." So important. I feel like this is sort of the next wave. We had "Lean In," and that made sense to a lot of people at that time, but now you've really hit on something that is so important. "Dig Your Heels In," really, it's a metaphor, but it's not, it's literal too to a large degree. I love a quote from the book that you say, "By leaving your company are you running away from something or running towards something? Are you jumping ship because you just 'can't deal any longer,' or is the new opportunity something that really excites you and fulfills your career ambition?" Because sometimes, there's a lot of running away Joan, there really is.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. And I always say digging your heels in is a personal decision, and so I am in no way, shape or form telling everyone to grin and bear it if your situation's toxic, but the majority of the time the women that I have met over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of women around the world for global research projects, you get backed into a corner, and I think sometimes the sexy thing in popular culture right now is to get a bigger title, or a bigger promotion, or more money if you jump and ghost ship, or that the only way to advance is to be a girl boss and start your own thing, but the truth is you have so much equity in where you are right now and so much opportunity to really transform that company, and taking stock, taking a deep breath, really thinking about those ah-ha moments, what is really frustrating you there and how can you turn that into fuel and really disrupt the status quo? We're never going to, I think really achieve this inclusive culture and workplace if we don't dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also point out in the book that we think that we're the only ones feeling a certain way, but you interviewed the very highest achieving female executives who look, their lives look perfect on the outside, and as you got to know them and as they opened up to you these top executives were barely surviving rather than thriving as you perceived them to be.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, that threw me completely for a loop. I was so naive in my mindset thinking they were living this glamorous career, personal and professional lives, and to really hear their battle scars of what they had gone through and they endured taught me a lot about sometime that dynamic between women at work in different generations, but also that we still have so much work to do. I interviewed Reece Witherspoon a couple months ago who also told me that she has bouts with imposter syndrome. I mean, it's Reece Witherspoon. So one of side of this is the self limiting mindset that we can figure out how to overcome, and some of that is pushed on us because of bias in the system and around us, but the other side of it is the system's broken, and I think that's why we need to identify some tactical ways to change it, and that's why I want "Dig Your Heels In to be a real playbook that shows examples of women doing just that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because you have a lot of these broad strokes, you have a lot of really important statistics in this book, but you also interview women and give very specific stories that are relatable to all of us, and we see ourselves in that and there's a lot of value in that, so I really hope everyone will pick up "Dig Your Heels In." So Joan, just to wrap up tell us where people can get the book and hear more about you and be in touch with you, your socials, all that good stuff?

Joan Kuhl:
Awesome. So I have a brand new website, JoanKuhl.com J-O-A-N K-U-H-L. "Dig Your Heels In," we have a fantastic website that's DigYourHeelsIn.com and the book is sold everywhere books are sold, so Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, you name it. If you order it and you go and enter your information on my website you will get a ton of free resources that I developed as things that are master classes on work and life hacks and some great jumpstart your career guides. And on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook I'm @JoanKuhl as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
Thanks, Bobbi. I love talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right my friends, here's my take. Financial grown up tip number one, I want to address something that Joan alluded to, but we didn't really get to explore fully, and that is that we are having a cultural moment where we really glorify the idea of the entrepreneur, of being the boss babe and so on. We hear so many stories about being a boss, and changes in cultural norms and in technology do allow a lot more entrepreneurship, but don't be fooled. There is no paycheck coming every two weeks, at least not for a long time for most entrepreneurs, and of course there's that healthcare thing, and you can't just say "I quit" and just instantly have a business. There are a lot of things that go on in order to have a successful business, and it rarely is an overnight success. There are usually years of hard work behind the scenes that you don't hear about when you read these articles of what seems like overnight successes. So it's important that you acknowledge and understand that as Joan talks about, there are a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job as well. You can be an intrapreneur, which means you sort of build little businesses within a company, but with the company's support, which includes of course that ongoing paycheck and that financial security of a job. So tread carefully before you jump, and also of course read Joan's book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others of both sexes are saying. That can be in person and it can also be maybe in chat rooms online, it can be being part of a mastermind group or even on social media platforms, for example Facebook Groups and so on. It's a cliché for a reason, information is power.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you all enjoyed spending time with us today, now I need your help. Please make sure you are subscribed, and if you have friends or colleagues that you think will enjoy these interviews and these podcast episodes with, for example amazing role models like Joan, please encourage them to subscribe as well, and of course ratings and reviews are gold to us, we appreciate every single one. Big thanks to "Dig Your Heels In" author Joan Kuhl for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Attorney Leslie Tayne shares her unique take on why we should view debt as a good thing, along with candid details on why she ended an engagement over money issues

In Leslie's money story you will learn:

• What kinds of things are red flags financially when dating someone

• The different approach she took with debt management

• What a "Bird and Fish issue" is and why it's important to steer clear of this kind of relationship financially
  

In Leslie’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important not to rely on someone else to take care of your money

In Leslie's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to put a positive spin on your debt

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to ask uncomfortable questions when getting serious with someone

• What the difference is between secrets vs baggage when it comes to money

Episode Links-

Leslie's book Life & Debt: A Fresh Approach to Achieving Financial Wellness

Check out Leslie's website - https://attorney-newyork.com/

Follow Leslie!

• Instagram - @taynelawgroup

• LinkedIn

• Twitter - @lesliehtayneesq / @taynelawgroup

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So the clip that you heard at the top was a big moment for me. I had never really thought of debt as something that was actually a symbol of things that that debt had allowed you to achieve. To help you get to your goals. And we don't always think of debt that way. It's a mindset and we're gonna come back to that. First, welcome to everyone. Especially to our new listeners. Let me tell you a little bit about the show. We interview high achievers that share personal stories about money that had an impact on their lives. We also give you every day money tips that you can put to work right away. In this case, as I mentioned, we're gonna be learning how to change our debt mindset. Now, the fantastic guest for this episode is Leslie Tayne. She is the author of Life and Debt. Also an attorney. And before we get to that every day money tip, she gets very real in her money story about a broken engagement. And you're also gonna hear some information about my own break up that was a little bit scary for me to talk about. My own broken marriage. We actually went through with the engagement. Did get married. And things did not work out. And a lot had to do with our different money mindsets. Here we go. With Leslie Tayne.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Leslie Tayne. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the Podcast.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much for having me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have you on for a number of reasons. One of which is you know a lot about a lot of financial things. You are the author of Life and Debt. A fresh approach to achieving financial wellness. Congratulations on the book.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me a little bit about it.

Leslie Tayne:
I don't think, from my perspective, that it's realistic to really be out of debt. I think that it's a different mindset when it comes to debt resolution, which is learning to love your debt and accept it. So I took this totally different approach about debt management, debt resolution. Whatever concept you want to call it. But I took a totally different approach which is to learn to love your debt, accept it, know that it's part of your life, and find really good strategic ways to manage it so it works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. Because it's not always realistic to just say I'm not gonna have it. We have to live in the real world. And part of living in the real world is being realistic about relationships, which is hard to do when we're caught up in things like engagements and all that goes with it. And I know I had a short marriage in my 20s, which broke up for a number of reasons. But money, as is the case in many marriages, our different money values was a factor. And that was also a factor in a big decision that you made.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes, it was. I actually was also engaged to somebody. And I ended the engagement due to what I'm gonna call bird and fish issues related to finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. That's a good tease. What does that mean?

Leslie Tayne:
So bird and fish issues have to do with my conceptualization of the differences between people's ideas of money. For example, if you're a spender and your significant other is a saver and you really like to spend and don't think about it and your significant other is a saver, you have bird and fish issues. So obviously a bird can't live in the water and a fish doesn't live in a tree. So when you have significant bird and fish issues from a financial perspective, your relationship, unless you can really manage it, is not likely to succeed in that particular area.

Leslie Tayne:
So with my significant other at the time, my fiancé, we just did not see ... And he was a great guy. It wasn't the person. It really had to do with the fact that from a financial perspective, he saw things very differently than I did. And it wasn't something that I felt would make a successful long-term relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the red flags?

Leslie Tayne:
I needed to get a new car. And I'm not sure what's on my credit. And then that starts the red flag stuff for me. The I'm not sure what's on-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ask his credit score?

Leslie Tayne:
I told him that I thought it was in his best interest to pull his credit and take a look at it and make sure that there was nothing on there that he wasn't aware of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you find out what the number was?

Leslie Tayne:
Yeah. I did see his credit later on in the relationship. The ultimate issue was about how he managed his money. Meaning he made money and he told me basically what he was earning, and his job, and his prospect for more money because another big discussion always was around Christmas time or the end of the year bonuses. So the question was, he would always say, "I wonder what I'm gonna get. Is it gonna be like it was last year? And I have to put that money away for taxes. And I need to do this or that with it." So he was volunteering that information to me and then I would follow up with questions based on his volunteering that. And there was a little bit of recklessness there and-

Bobbi Rebell:
What's an example of that?

Leslie Tayne:
Spending without thinking. Like having 100 pairs of jeans. Just continuing to buy without thinking. And then saying, "Oh, I have to pay off my ..." Things that ... These are red flags to me. Excessive spending. Not budgeting. Not being sure how you're gonna make it through the year if you're on salary plus commission. Those are red flags and problems to me. That's a money management issue. It became problematic when I would hear things like, "I don't think I can afford that." Well, you should know what you should be able to afford or not be able to afford. Or, "How could I just say no to my kids?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were examples of that happening?

Leslie Tayne:
Vacations. So if I wanted to go on vacation and say I have a different budget than he has or at least I'm aware of my budget than he had. I want to go on vacation and this is what I would like to stay. Then I don't know if I can do that. And I would say, "Well, why would you have a problem doing it based on the things that you told me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
In other words, based on his income, he should be able to afford it, but where was the money going I guess is what you were wondering.

Leslie Tayne:
Correct. Correct. And it wasn't my place. I didn't feel comfortable that it was my place to micromanage it. Again, I don't want to be in a position in relationships and I don't recommend being in a position where you are micromanaging somebody else's inability to manage their own money. Going into a relationship as adults, each one of you should be managing your money effectively and being aware of your finances, being aware of your debt, having some sort of plan. It doesn't have to be a written dissertation of exactly how to pay it off. But an idea, not when I get some money I'm gonna do this. Or I'll have some money soon. There was a dishonesty piece about not telling me what was going on with the finances and with his finances. There came a point when we were engaged when I said, "I'm not just a girlfriend now. We're engaged and we're talking about a long-term future. So I feel like I have a right to understand or have a good understanding of what your finances are." And when there was a hesitation about giving me that information, I knew at that point that I would not be able to proceed.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your advice to our listeners?

Leslie Tayne:
My best advice is that you may love this person. You may find so many wonderful qualities about them. They may be a great parent. A loving human being. But when you go into a situation where there's any level of dishonesty, that doesn't get better. That gets worse. So those are red flags. Be brave and strong. It's not easy to break off a relationship for a million different reasons. But take your time. Go slow. If you're the one with the money or you're the one with the better credit, always keep it separate and really create a line in the sand-

Bobbi Rebell:
Leslie, tell us your every day money tip. It has to do with debt, but appreciation. And not appreciation in the idea of interest appreciating. A better kind of appreciation.

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree. So I know that sounds like a challenging statement to make. But once you change your attitude and you become thankful for the debts that you have, you'd be surprised how that impacts the totality of resolving your own finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because many times, they did help you achieve something. Whether it's having a home, having a law degree, whatever it may be.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes. You're correct. All of the debt that you have helps you achieve something. You have a car, it takes you places. You have a home, you have a roof over your head. You have food that you bought maybe on credit. You have student loans from an education that you got. It's not that you didn't get something for nothing. You exchanged the debt for something that may not be tangible. But it's something that is useful in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So, Leslie, tell us a little bit more before we wrap up about your practice because it is concentrated on debt. And where people can find you and learn more about you.

Leslie Tayne:
Sure. So I'm an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of New York. And I have a practice called [inaudible 00:09:45] Law Group. We have four offices in New York. But we do help clients outside of New York as well. And we're gonna be opening offices soon in South Florida.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you. I have a book called Life and Debt. And all of that can be found online. So you can Google me at Leslie Tayne. T-A-Y-N-E. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, all under that. Or LifeandDebtBook.com. TayneLaw.com. T-A-Y-N-E-L-A-W.com. And certainly, again, you can always Google my name, Leslie Tayne, and you'll find me all over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Leslie for sharing such a candid and brave, frankly, brave story. We appreciate it.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to my take on what Leslie had to say, I just want everyone to know Leslie is happily remarried, as am I. And in both cases, our husbands are on board when it comes to our money mindsets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. This one's a little bit hard though, actually. You have to ask really uncomfortable questions if you are going to get serious with someone. I got engaged to my ex-husband. The one that I talked about at the beginning of the interview with Leslie. I didn't know his income. I didn't feel comfortable asking. Seriously. For real. But yet, I was willing to be financial partners with him. Without having that information. That is a don't. We'll leave it at that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Secrets versus baggage. They are very different. Here's the deal, guys. Leslie's problem with her ex-fiancé was not only that they had different money values because they definitely did. It was the secrets though. It was the lack of honesty. Withholding information. That is not the same as having baggage. AKA having lived a life. Things happen. You might have a student loan or even credit card debt. We're all human. Life is messy. Good luck finding someone who is perfect financially. Pretty much any money problem though can be solved if you work together and are honest with each other. Emphasis on honest. So don't confuse life's normal messiness with the stuff that matters. And that is communication and working through financial situations together. No one's perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, so grateful to Leslie Tayne. She got candid, and real, and raw. And we're so much better for it. So thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production

Dan Schawbel knew he needed to leave his job, but carefully choosing when and how to do it was the key to success in launching his own social media entrepreneurial venture

In Dan's money story you will learn:

• How he was able to transition from his corporate job to becoming an entrepreneur

• What it was like starting his own company

• How his life was different after making the transition
  

In Dan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important to be patient when moving from a corporate job to your own job

• Why you should prioritize what's important to you

• Why you should Invest in yourself

In Dan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How using a goal sheet can help you stay productive

In My Take you will learn:

• Why you shouldn’t rush your exit strategy

• Why it's important to create a goal system
  

Episode Links -

• Dan’s podcast - 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

• Dan's book - Back to Human: How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation

• Dan's book - Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Check out Dan's websites -

• Dan Schawbel

• Millennial Branding

• Workplace Trends

Follow Dan!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking to the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of a work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner of Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. There is an expression out there that became very popular a while back. First I believe it was first really mainstreamed on a show called Sex and the City. Then it was a book and then a movie. The expression is he's just not that into you because a lot of the time relationships don't work out, not for some big dramatic, blowup reason, but just because one person isn't that into it. They just hope there's someone else out there that will wow them, that will be their true love, not they're like, good for now, whatever.

Bobbi Rebell:
That can be true for jobs too. Follow me here guys. For all the stereotypes about hating your job and wanting to go into your boss's office and dramatically scream, "I quit." The truth is most jobs are okay. We like them, but sometimes you just know you're just not that into it. So then what? And that was the case with our guest today, Dan Schawbel. He's the author of Back to Human and the host of the podcast, Five Minutes with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners recently, so a special welcome to all of you. We keep the shows short because life is busy, and we want to fit into your schedule, so feel free to listen to one episode. If you are short on time, we try to keep them the classic episodes of which this is one to about 15 minutes. We do Financial Grownup Guides, often on the weekends. Those are even shorter, but if you have a little more time, feel free to stack the episodes together to make whatever amount of time you want to fill. So, if you're commuting, you have a 45 minute commute. Listen to three episodes. If it works for you, we're happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guests, Dan Schawbel, who I learned about through former Financial Grownup guests, Stefanie O'Connell. She's actually been on the show a couple of times. We will link to her episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan Schawbel has a great story for all of us about what I was talking about, about just not being that into a job. He was doing really well. His bosses liked him. He liked his colleagues, but it just wasn't enough for him. He wasn't miserable. He just wasn't that into it. Here is Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so happy to have you because your book is amazing, Back to Human, and I'm also enjoying your new podcast, Five Questions with Dan Schawbel, which has the most amazing guest line-up, by the way, everyone from Rachel Ray to Lewis Howes, Chris Anderson, star studded lineup there, so congrats on all.

Dan Schawbel:
Much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we stick to three main questions here on Financial Grownup, and the first of which is to tell us your money story, and this has to do with a big transition in your life that turned out okay, I think. Go for it.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. This was at the early days of social media, so I created the first ever social media positions in a big company back in 2007. I knew I was onto something, and I knew that I had a high value in the marketplace because it was new, and I had the right skills at the right time, and so that gave me a degree of confidence. The other thing that gave me a lot of confidence was outside of work, the reason why I got the position is I was early into blogging, social media. I had my own magazine and a blog that was successful, and to me, that made me realize that, oh my God, not only do I have these skills, but I have the assets, the credibility, the connections that I can leverage, and I was getting a lot of demand from companies to have me speak at those companies to various groups and audiences.

Dan Schawbel:
Between all of that, it proved to me that there was a market that I was the right person at the right time, and that allowed me to transition from corporate life into entrepreneurial life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's fascinating, though, because why didn't your corporate bosses see this and try to retain you?

Dan Schawbel:
It's actually really interesting. They knew that I was eventually going to leave. When I quit, they weren't surprised, but they didn't know when it was going to happen, so they wanted to maximize me and my time when I was actually there. So, that was really smart, and then they became one of my early clients because when I quit, they want to sign a consulting contract. So, that was the transition between when I was there and when they hired a replacement is we were working on a contingent basis.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of discussions were there during this time period? Did they tell you, "We value you? We just literally don't have the budget?" Or was there something else going on?

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities. I was doing a lot of this stuff that I still do, but within the few breaks that I had during the workday and outside of work. So my life was already crazy, and I was being ... Google wanted me to speak on campus. I was getting crazy opportunities, and so it almost wasn't fair to my manager and the company for me to stay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about that and the transition time? What was it like the early days, like day one when you started your own company?

Dan Schawbel:
One of the best pieces of advice my parents ever gave me was have the predictable income, be patient, stay at the company longer until you're really ready because I went through at least a year where I wanted to quit every day. I was like, [inaudible 00:06:11] like going home and working on my business nights and weekends was so enjoyable, what am I dealing with here? And they said, "Be patient. Make sure you have enough money." And I thought that was really good advice in hindsight. Right?

Dan Schawbel:
In the moment, I'm like, get me outta here. I think it is patience, right? It's very easy to be impatient because you get so much joy working on something that you own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the early days like? Day one? No company job. What'd you do? Did you get up and go to the gym, or did you get up and work?

Dan Schawbel:
Honestly, I don't think anything changed really. You know, I think it was the same or maybe a little bit more effort, but I was doing what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners? What's the takeaway from this?

Dan Schawbel:
The takeaway is be patient if you're going to move from a corporate job into your own business. Don't rush it. Be smart about how, where and when you're spending the money. Prioritize what's important to you, and if you're young, what should it be important to you is reinvesting in yourself and your own education and to save money so that you can make a transition that's smooth and not as stressful. There's always going to be some stress because it's something new, and people fear change. It's built into us being human. Take your time, be patient, save, know where you want to spend money and also know where you shouldn't be spending money.

Dan Schawbel:
I think that's also important that people don't talk about as much is not having lavish vacations in the early days is important. I didn't really even travel up until maybe seven years ago, and so a lot of the things that I had always wanted to do, I held off on and now I do them more regularly because I'm in a different position, but when you're first starting out, save, be smart about your priorities. Say yes to as much as you possibly can because that will give you the privilege to say no to more things later in life, the open opportunities. Do as much as you can. Surround yourself with smart people. I was fortunate to have supportive parents who pushed me to be as patient as possible and to save, but if you don't have that, I think it's finding role models, finding people who believe in you, and that will give you enough confidence to succeed in the early days so that sets you up for longterm happiness and fulfillment.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also brought with you an everyday money tip, which is something we kind of know, but so many of us just don't do.

Dan Schawbel:
I have a goal sheet that lists out the things that I need to get done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual basis. And even though this is basic, it really helps focus my attention, and there's a certain degree of satisfaction when you check something off, like you completed something, you've achieved something.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel better with that. What was on the top of your to do list today?

Dan Schawbel:
Top of my to do list today was to take a break.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, Back to Human. I really enjoyed this. There's a lot of great things here. For example, you talk about the optimal time for a break and the most productive day. Tell me more about those things.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The most productive day is Tuesday because Monday everyone's catching up on work. You have all these emails, so you're going to prioritize those instead of just planning and working on things that are going to have high impact for you on Tuesday. For every about 45 minutes you work, you should take a 15 minute break. Those 45 minutes, you need to really zone in and be focused.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your podcast, which is ... I hate to say this. This is a positive, but it's addicting because it's less than 10 minutes. It's five questions with Dan Schawbel, and you have such an incredible guest list. Tell us a little bit more about that and how you come up with these amazing guests.

Dan Schawbel:
Yep. So, I have interviewed over 2,000 people in about 10 or so years, and I've always had the same format. It's five questions in under 10 minutes, and it used to be for various media outlets and now I'm doing the same thing for a podcast because a lot of my friends have hour long podcasts, and for me, the format that makes the most sense because I'm a very intense, anxious type person is a very short podcast. And so I started putting it out, and I've been getting the feedback after thousands of downloads about how it's the podcast people listen to you between meetings. It's quick, it's efficient.

Dan Schawbel:
And I've also found that when I interview people, they give their best advice very quickly because they don't have an hour in order to talk about a subject. They need to boil it down into what's most important. So that pressure I put on them allows them to deliver their best content in just a few minutes, and yeah, it's been very enjoyable. The format feels unique and authentic to me, and it took me a while to come up with that format even though it was right in front of my face because everyone's like, "Start a podcast. Start a podcast. Start a podcast." And I had back in 2013. It wasn't the right format. I was trying to do too many things, and so I was patient. I waited, I put thought into it, and now we have Five Questions with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a great thing. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, be in touch with you, social media, all that stuff.

Dan Schawbel:
You can go to iTunes to listen to the podcast or DanSchawbel.com to see the research, the articles and all of my content as well as the book, Back to Human.

Bobbi Rebell:
And all your social channels, what's your handle?

Dan Schawbel:
It's just my name Dan Schawbel. It's D-A-N-S-C-H-A-W-B-E-L.

Bobbi Rebell:
genius. Thanks Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Do not rush your exit strategy. Dan makes a great point about being patient and planning a gracious exit. You are not in a movie, guys. Screaming, "I quit" is not a very grownup way to move to the next phase of your career. Be Realistic about the challenges that you will face after the big sendoff. As Dan said, nothing really changes your first day, not at your job. It's all on you. Your income will not be certain. Dan couldn't take vacations for a while. When I left my corporate job, I had a multiyear plan that I carried out before I left, and when I did it, it was in the most amicable way possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Create a goal system. Now, Dan talked about how it gives him satisfaction when he checks things off a list. I do that before I go to bed at night, and it calms me down a lot too. To just know what I'm up for it the next day. So, find a system to organize the things that you need to get done in different time increments. I also have begun adopting systems including, for example, [inaudible 00:13:05] in recent months. No affiliation with the company by the way, as my company has grown, and I have to coordinate schedules and deadlines with my growing team.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of that, I'm going to have a very big announcement about a new project very soon, so please follow me on social media for details. It involves a new partner, and it is one of those pinch me. I can't believe I'm actually doing this kind of thing. Translation, I am terrified, but I am excited for all of you to come along for the ride. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1. On Twitter, BobbiRebell, and if you want to be in touch or ask any questions about the show, you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. You can even email us a voice memo, and maybe we will share it in the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone go pick up Dan's book, Back to Human and check out is awesome podcast, Five questions with Dan Schawbel. It is everywhere. Follow him on social as well. Big thanks to Dan Schawbel for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Soon after Christine Armstrong’s husband took a company buyout and launched a family vacation business, the executive and new mother found herself in an intolerable job situation and quit to start her own business- resulting in a double dose the challenges of startup life. 

In Christine's money story you will learn:

• Being miserable in your job isn't worth the money

• Why Christine and her husband went from having two good paying jobs to not having any set income to rely on and how they made it work

• By being curious how other parents were balancing work life and home life, she started interviewing them, which led to the inspiration of her book - The Mother Of All Jobs

In Christine’s money lesson you will learn:

• How little you can spend when you really put your mind to it

• Be conscious of how much you are spending on childcare and figure out a way to best balance that expense with your work life

In Christine's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to be more eco-friendly with your gifting over the holidays, and save money

• How to teach your children the benefits of gifting second hand goods and why they should be proud of it and not hide it

• Where to find the best high quality second hand goods for yourself, and for gifting

In My Take you will learn:

• Don’t spend the time stressing about the money. It is gone. Move on psychologically and just do better next time

• Keep your fixed costs low

Episode Links

Check out Christine's website - www.christinearmstrong.com
Link to buy Christine's book on Amazon - Mother Of All Jobs
Link to Ebay.com

Follow Christine!

• Linked In

• Twitter

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Christine:
What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, have you ever heard the acronym DINKS? D-I-N-K-S. Double income, no kids, usually used in the context of couples that have a capital F for fabulous lifestyle. How about if that was now double startup, two kids. That is where Christine Armstrong, author of The Mother of All Jobs, and her husband found themselves, and let me tell you, there was drama with a capital D. Spoiler alert though, they survived, but they lived to tell the tale and we get to benefit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone, if you are new, so glad you found us. If you have a sec, do a screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me so I can welcome you personally to our Financial Grownup community. The show stays around fifteen minutes because you're busy, but feel free to binge listen to a few if you have a little more time. We now have a library of more than 100 amazing high achievers sharing their stories and lessons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's get right to it. Here is Christine Armstrong. Hey Christine Armstrong, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Christine:
Thanks so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on you're new in the US book. It's already been a huge hit in the UK where you are called, The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. Emphases on the ish, right?

Christine:
Yeah, totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have managed to stay sane in an extraordinary circumstance where both you and your husband found yourself in startup mode. Tell us your money story.

Christine:
So I had a lovely job at an advertising agency and I traveled all over the world and presented work. When I had a baby, I came back to the ad agency, but the boss had changed and they were offering me different terms and I kind of panicked and I took another job, which wasn't a great fit for me. It was a really heavy [inaudible 00:02:56] culture and I was really kinda stressed. It wasn't a great place for me anyway, but it particularly wasn't a great place with a small baby.

Christine:
But I felt I couldn't leave because while I had been on maternity leave, my husband, who'd been eighteen years at his company, was offered a big package to leave and he was like "Look, I really wanna take it, I wanna startup this business." I was like "Okay, yeah. That'll be fine, great idea."

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would have the steady income.

Christine:
Right, 'cause I was just gonna go back to my job. It never occurred to me that I would want to stop or do less work. That kind of career was what I did. My job at the ad agency, they were really senior women who had families, and that seemed to be what they had done and it was fine.

Christine:
So we found ourselves in a situation where I was really unhappy at work and he was with the startup, which is a travel company called [inaudible 00:03:40] as you know with a startup, you don't make money immediately, so he wasn't making money, but we still needed quite a lot of childcare, because also, he wasn't home being just a parent and I was working really hard, but quite frustrated. So, I kind of was looking for answers in what I thought I could do to kinda make things better. I decided that I would have another baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Christine:
Of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because that will solve everything.

Christine:
In my mind ... you know, they say when you are really stressed, you start making really bad decisions and you can only see things in black and white. I was just like, I got to get out of here and I've got to take time to think, so I had another baby, which was great, but it obviously didn't solve my problems at work. Then I went back to work and it was still really, really difficult. So I decided to go and interview women about how they made it work, and some men as well. That was really where the book came about.

Christine:
During this process of interviewing these amazing people and understanding what I needed to do, I had lunch with a really old friend who's a therapist. We were in this café and I just talked at her for 45 minutes. She looked at me and she said "Look darling, just go. Go back to the office, get your coat and go home." I said "You're insane. I've got a mortgage, I've got childcare, [inaudible 00:04:58] is making no money." She's like "Yeah, but it'll be fine, just give it to the universe." I'm laughing at the word-

Bobbi Rebell:
The universe does not pay your bills.

Christine:
No, no. So, I didn't take her advice. I didn't literally go back to the office and resign, but I went home that evening, I said to my husband "Jill says I should resign" and he says "Yeah, I think you should, you're so unhappy, it'll be fine." So I did and then ... in the UK, you get three months notice. So I had three months of pay, so I kind of had three months to sort things out. During that period, we booked an amazing trip of a lifetime to go visit my sister in Thailand.

Christine:
Basically, the first thing I did with no income whatsoever was get on a plane to Thailand and go stay in five star hotels, but my sister had booked me where breakfast costs like $50 a person. Chris and I just kind of got fits of hysterical giggles and weren't really sure what to do or how to make it stop, because it was all pre-planned. Chris was like "Okay, the only thing we can do is just to enjoy it and then we'll deal with stuff when we get back."

Bobbi Rebell:
So basically, so now, you're gonna start your own business as an author, because you've got this book in progress. Your husband is at this business, which spoiler alert, is doing great now, but was at its early stages and you're living a lifestyle that needs two incomes from steady jobs to support.

Christine:
Well, I would say that that was our saving grace actually. I think we were really fortunate that my husband bought a house a long time ago, so actually, when we came back from Thailand and were like "Okay, let's just clear the decks. We've gotta lose every piece of spending that we have that is not essential." What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time, from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back. What we were astounded by, we really worked together on it, we were really focused on it. We went from shopping in the equivalent of Whole Foods to the discount aisle at the discount supermarket.

Christine:
We were just astonished actually how little you could spend when you really, really put your minds to it. Having been massively complacent, it has to be sad. So, we just stripped out all spending and twiddled everything back and basically rebuilt from there. So I didn't immediately start a business. I freelanced for a while and then I met a guy called Robert Phillips who had it in his mind an idea of a consultancy he wanted to set up and was really inspirational.

Christine:
I joined up with a group of people and we started a consultancy that's been really successful and it's given us a great and stable income and allowed us to compensate. But it really took nearly a year for us to sort all of that out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Christine:
So my takeaway, the thing that Chris and I have taken a run through our lives is to keep your fixed cost as low as you can, so that you've always got the flexibility to [inaudible 00:07:55]. We were saved by the fact that we didn't have an expensive car policy, we didn't have kids who have expensive childcare, we don't have kids in expensive schools now. We keep the baseline really low so that we can scale up or down according to what we've got available.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what you learned really, is that a lot of these expenses that were just part of your life, you weren't really thinking about. It was pretty easy to just say goodbye to them.

Christine:
It really was. I do totally take responsibility for having previously been compulsive, but we both had good jobs, we both got promoted pretty regularly, our incomes have got bigger and we just really assumed that they would just continue to get bigger. We just really were very thoughtless about A, the impact of childcare and how much money that is. And B, how you often also lose one or half a salary and we managed to lose two salaries, which I think was quite an achievement when you have kids.

Christine:
I think my other big learning is ... as well as keeping your expenses as low as they can be in terms of core expenses, but also to be really thoughtful about what your childcare costs are gonna be and how you can organize work when you've got kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Another big expense with children is the holiday season and all this gift giving that goes on, which brings us to your everyday money tip.

Christine:
Yeah, I'm really interested in the circular economy which is reusing things and not keeping ... making new stuff. I really try and use second buy, second hand things, whether it's books, toys, looking on Ebay for things and getting the kids used to the idea that a gift is a gift, even if it's secondhand. I think that you can still give things to people they really care about, without spending as much money as you might have done.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not hiding the fact that it is secondhand, actually making that part of the conversation.

Christine:
Yeah, absolutely. I think being proud of it, you know, mixing something up. My husband's great at re-painting stuff or making it look better and being really proud of it and saying "I found this in a secondhand shop and I thought you'd really like it" that's okay.

Christine:
What I find is that strangely, people are quite excited that you went through the trouble to go look for it for them and if you fixed it up and made it look nice, than great. Embrace it, enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well one thing that I enjoyed was your book which is called The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. And as I joked at the beginning, emphasis on the ish. One of the great things about it, is that it's very real. You have some very relatable and specific stories. You did a lot of work interviewing people here.

Christine:
I did. I started off with those interviews I mentioned with really senior women who were very high fly. Then, I kind of went for the book to lots of really, really ordinary women, doing ordinary jobs who are never gonna be Chief Exec. Probably never gonna be on the board and just working to pay their bills, basically. To really understand the dynamics of their relationship, their kids, schools and just try to figure out how it all works together and how their solving problems and what works and what doesn't.

Christine:
There are no quick fixes, right? You look at each [inaudible 00:10:55], you go "What can I take from that that's useful? What's relevant to me right now?" That's the way it's set up.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the book has said it really smartly, in that it is bite-sized. You could read the whole thing, of course, but you could read it little by little and there are sections, breakout sections that are titled "If you are too tired and read the above" which kind of gives us the executive summary, because you're realistic about how busy parents schedules are.

Christine:
That's good also, 'cause I've got fifteen books on my bedside table and I wish some of them had a [crosstalk 00:11:26] section I could read as well. So yeah, it was a reflection of the experience and I read two pages in the evening after putting all the kids to bed and everything, then I fall asleep and I don't read anything else.

Christine:
Yeah, it was so that if people are skipping through it, they could just pick out some bits and come back to something later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are wonderful, as is your book. Tell us more about how listeners can find out more about you, the book and of course, following you on social media.

Christine:
So, I'm a Twitter person, and that's C ARMSTRTONG LD which stands for London and I have a website at ChristineArmstrong.com and I look forward to hearing from your listeners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks Christine.

Christine:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. First, have you ever heard of something called the sunken cost theory? Financial grownup tip number one, sometimes, you pay for something and then, you can't get out of it. You are stuck and the money is gone. Like Christine and her husband's big luxury trip to Thailand. Don't spend your time stressing about the money, 'cause it's already bye-bye. It's gone. Move on psychologically, do better next time, but most of all, enjoy what you spent the money on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, keep those fixed costs low. Part of the reason that the panic attacks were kept in check for the couple was that they had a stable place to live. They own their home and they kept their overhead low because of that, so that they didn't have to worry about all of these bills that they were stuck with, that they couldn't do anything about. They were able to make changes in the high cost that they did have because, they were discretionary. Sure, you can go back and say they shouldn't, coulda, woulda, whatever, but ... the reality is, that when the you know what hit the fan, they were able to make some choices that didn't even seem that tough at the time. It's interesting that they never really went back to a lot of those discretionary expenses, even when they could, in theory afford them again, because their perspective had changed.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can go back now, of course and look at what you have that's discretionary and cut back, probably a good idea for most of us. But at least go and do an analysis of what you have that is fixed that you could not get rid of in this kind of unexpected situation where you suddenly have no income and two kids and businesses with bright futures, but still not any real, meaningful cashflow temporarily. Think about what you would do if you were in their situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, I hope this episode with the great Christine Armstrong gave you guys some perspective on your money and your life. Let me know your takeaways and if maybe your making some changes because of what you heard from Christine. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell and big thank yous for leaving reviews, it helps others discover the show, as does just simply telling a friend. Thank you so much, you have no idea. Thank you so much to those of you who do all these things and who subscribe and spread the word. It is truly so appreciated. We put so much work into this show and your feedback is priceless. Of course, also priceless, is the advice we got from Christine Armstrong that helped us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Ambition Redefined author Kathryn Sollmann’s childhood took an unexpected financial detour when her father had a career setback. But becoming a financial grownup at a young age gave her the foundation to redefine ambition. 

In Kathryn's money story you will learn:

-Why she started working at a young age

-How her financially stressful childhood prepared her for success

-The way she wished her parents talked about money when she was growing up

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to have honest conversations about money with a significant other

-Why Kathryn suggests women should always have a way to make money

-Her tips on how to balance work and family life

In Kathryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to categorize your savings account

-Ways prioritize saving money while staying out of debt

In My Take you will learn:

-Financial grownups don't judge, every financial plan is unique to each family or individual but making smart decisions are what make plans successful

-Family time and work time don't have to be separate, hear what Bobbi and Kathryn have to say about blending a schedule in order to balance it

EPISODE LINKS

Read Kathryn's new book Ambition Redefined here

Check out Kathryn's website for more information here

Follow Kathryn!

Instagram: @KathrynSollmann

Twitter: @KathrynSollmann

Linked In: @KathrynSollmann

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, financial grownup friends. I like to joke that it is never too young to grow up financially, but I'm rethinking that a bit, and that is because my guest, Ambition Redefined author, Kathryn Sollman, got a rude awakening when her comfortable upper middle class suburban life was interrupted by the harsh financial reality of a change in her family's financial situation. More on that in just a minute.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are new, so glad you found us. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and go into custom settings and set to auto download. While you are there, it will make our day if you leave a quick review. Now to Kathryn Sollman. Love her book, Ambition Redefined, but I will warn you, she makes him controversial arguments. And while I do see her point, and she does a lot of research, there's a lot of data to backup everything she says, there is a lot of discussion about her perspective. And stay to the end. We will be giving away a signed copy of Ambition Redefined. Here is Kathryn Sollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Kathryn Sollman, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love your new book. Congratulations on it. It is Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead. It's like you read my mind, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah. We're in an era of women's empowerment, which is great, and we need to have a woman president, and we need to have more women running corporations, but that's very small percentage of women overall who want those kinds of jobs.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and I do want to just mention that this is very important for men as well because men are huge stakeholders in this issue because they have so much at stake when it comes to not only whether they're women partners, their sisters, their mothers, their daughters work, but also the income that they generate because that can be a big factor when things don't go as planned, which brings us to your money story, which does have to do with your father and what happened and the impact on the rest of the family and the role that your mother had to play then in the family finances. Tell us your money story, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
I grew up in a very affluent community. My father was working in a big executive job in New York City. When I was in middle school, he lost that big job and he never fully recovered professionally. This then sent my mother, who was a former teacher, back to work and she hadn't worked in more than 20 years.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wow.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So she had some fits and starts, but over time was able to reinvent herself to be an English as a second language teacher, but that wasn't really enough to keep the household going. So there was a tremendous amount of financial stress in the household. The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in, and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
What was your job?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
It was a company called the Danbury Mint. I guess I was a like an administrative assistant.

BOBBI REBELL:
And what kind of conversations did you have with your father or with your parents at this time?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, it was a difficult environment because I felt like everything was always on pins and needles. I was young and it's not like I could have given my father advice. I was just kind of a victim.

BOBBI REBELL:
Well, what about your mother? How did she feel? Did you talk to her? Did she have regrets about having left the workforce? At the time, as you say, it was a different time. Did she feel she even had options not to leave the workforce?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
She felt a little powerless and she said that to me. She said, "Make sure that you always work because money is power." Not only in a relationship can money be power, but she said it's important that you have that power to support yourself and your family. I remember when she got one of her first big paychecks, she was very excited about being back to work and she bought herself a watch. I remember my father was very, very upset that she had bought that watch for herself because he felt like he should have bought it for her.

BOBBI REBELL:
What is the takeaway from your story for our listeners?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, women really need to be sure that they're not delegating their financial security to a partner because even when things seem like they're going so well, you've got to realize that no job has a lifetime guarantee. The second thing is that women should always find a way to work in a flexible way, which in some circles, is very controversial. Women live longer than men. They typically earn and save less and it's very difficult to return to the workforce and recoup lost earnings when you've been out of the workforce for many years and women are out for an average of 12 years.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
If you feel like you have a moral obligation to be with your children 24/7, you've got to realize that if you ran out of money late in life, you would then, in fact, burden those very same children, which is basically what happened to me when my father took a couple of my paychecks. Fast forward, that's the same man who is not prepared for retirement and still alive at 89. At some point, he is going to run out of money and it's going to be my problem.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's move on to the everyday money tip, which is also very important for women to have a sense of the contribution that they are making because, in some cases, many cases, they are not the primary breadwinner, but it is important to really understand that there is a significant contribution being made financially and you have a way to do that.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
What I always say is look at how much money you're bringing in each year and attach it to something. It could be two family vacations, it could be 50 percent or 100 percent of a college tuition bill, a child's braces, whatever it is, so that you can then say, "Okay, well I covered that. My money went to that." If you just put it all in the pot, it seems like your money is going to nothing or nothing significant.

BOBBI REBELL:
Right.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
And that's the way to make yourself feel better but also to, as my mother was saying, to exert a little power into the relationship and say, "I'm contributing too. This isn't just your ballgame."

BOBBI REBELL:
Which is very important because it makes it a lot more tangible. Let's talk about Ambition Redefined. I love this book. It's so relatable and there's a lot of truths in this that are not always spoken about, one of which is the fact that just because you were working flexible hours and sometimes part time hours does not mean you are earning less money or that you should settle for less money if you have the earning power in the market to earn more money.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah, it's absolutely true. A large percentage of freelancers earn more money than they were making in their full time jobs within a year. I was just speaking to a woman who had a full-time job with absolutely no flexibility. She needed more flexibility. She left and she found another job where she is working three days a week and she's working closer to home. She got rid of the commute and she's making 60 percent more than she was in the full-time job.

BOBBI REBELL:
So it's a question of finding the right job that values your skills. You also talk about something called a Type E, and this is important because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in having their own business and being entrepreneurs. But it's important to make sure that's the right fit for you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
That's right. When you're thinking about flexibility, what could be more flexible than being your own boss? So I find that lots of women think about, have these Walter Mitty dreams of starting this business or that business. The fact is that you have to be the entrepreneurial profile and the entrepreneurial profile is working 24/7 because there's nobody else to make this business work other than you, especially in the early stages before you might hire people. The other thing is that you have to wear so many hats.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So if you have a dream to be a marketing consultant and you really love marketing, well, you might love that marketing discipline, but you probably or you may not love sales. Any job, any business that you develop, you've got to be a salesperson. And lots of people thinking about having their own business will tell me, "Well, I don't like sales. I never wanted to be a salesperson."

BOBBI REBELL:
Everything is sales though, right?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Everything is sales. You've got to be selling yourself, your product, your service constantly. So you can't say you don't like sales and you can't say that you don't like financial stuff and numbers because you've got to work the numbers for your business. You've got to figure out how you're going to fund your business, even if it's a very small business.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us more about where people can find out more information about you, your book, and all your social channels so we can follow you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You can read more about my book on my website, kathrynsollman.com, and Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram can all be found under @kathrynsollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Thank you, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Thank you. So great to be with you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey everyone. As I mentioned at the top, Katherine is very tough in her stance on the fact that women must always earn money. And that comes from personal experience, but still, financial grownup tip number one, no judging. Kathryn makes her point very well. She did her homework. It's a really well researched book and I live by most of her advice already in my own life, but part of being a financial grownup is understanding that there is a human element to money and an emotional element to the decisions that we make and all the decisions that go around our financial lives.

BOBBI REBELL:
Everyone faces different situations and there may be many seasons in one's life when a regular paycheck or earning power is just not as important as other things. Don't get me wrong, we must all be vigilant about financial security, but let's not judge if someone makes a decision that, from the outside, doesn't look good. Sometimes, by the way, it may look like somebody's choosing not to work or not to earn money, but in fact, they may be trying and just not have been that successful. Be a friend.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial gonna tip number two. One idea in Kathryn's book that I loved was not to worry so much about work life balance, but to focus on blending. Maybe don't put pressure on yourself to turn off communication with work the minute you get home. It may work for some people, but it's okay if you give her child a bath, for example, and then you take a work call, and then you do story time. And maybe your kids stays up a little later than you wanted or whatever. Do what works for you to maintain your career path.

BOBBI REBELL:
And by the way, it is more than okay for your kids to know that you have other responsibilities and that paying attention to those other responsibilities may help pay, literally, for the fun things that you do together like your next vacation. Put them on your team, include them. Let them know that their good behavior and understanding when you have to do some work, even when it's supposed to be their time, helps the whole family.

BOBBI REBELL:
Katherine very generously sent along a signed copy of her book, Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead for one lucky listener. To win, all you have to do is DM me with your takeaway from the episode. You can do it on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can even email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love talking to Kathryn. She has so much value to add to this conversation. I hope everyone checks out her book, Ambition Redefined, and thank you, Kathryn, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz may be a Financial Grownup but that doesn’t mean all her friends have been able to grow up. Listen to how she works to get them on track. Plus- the president of the Charles Schwab foundation also shares an everyday money tip about making it easier to give to causes you care about. 

In Carrie's money story you will learn:

-How talking about money with your friend can keep you both on track

-The 3 craziest ways someone has tried to make quick cash

-What Carrie's number one priority is when it comes to saving, and how she follows through with it

-Hear why Carrie believes participating in the market is the key to saving for retirement

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The one thing every financial professional does to save money and keep themselves on track. 

-The easiest way to be a good financial friend - and a successful financial grownup

In Carrie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The ultimate tax smart way give to charity this holiday season 

In My Take you will learn:

-Carrie's friend from her money story was making some crazy financial decisions, here's how you can be the best financial friend possible without damaging your relationship

-Suggesting financial help to your friends could be the best gift you give this holiday season

Bobbi and Carrie also talk about:

-Carrie helped her friend's daughter pick out a broad-based index funds retirement plan, check out if that could also be right savings plan for you

-Mutual funds, index funds, and retirement plans are something to start thinking about as early as in your twenties. 

EPISODE LINKS

For all of your financial planning questions check out Ask Carrie Columns on Schwabmoneywise.com

Follow Carrie!

Twitter: @CarrieSchwab

Facebook: @CarrieSchwabPomerantz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm going to bring you one money store from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, friends. Let's talk about being friends. Are you on track with your goals, but see a train wreck coming with someone you care about? What do you? Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz knows all about it, and has solutions.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are just joining us, you are new to the show, so glad you are here. We keep the shows short because you're busy, but if you are commuting or have a little more time, we fully encourage the binge listen.

BOBBI REBELL:
Got a question? We are putting together some upcoming episodes to answer them, so DM us at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, or email us, hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's get to Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. I feel like she is the friend we all need in our back pocket. Yes, she is the daughter of Charles Schwab, and she grew up watching her dad build the business through ups and downs; but she is also, as you'll hear, a fantastic role model and financial expert in her own right.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, her story is one that we'll all be able to relate to. Here is Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Thanks, Bobbi, so glad to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I am so honored to have you, because you are so accomplished in your own right, even though you get talked about a lot as the daughter of Charles Schwab. We're not going to talk about him.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
No.

BOBBI REBELL:
We're only going to talk about you. You are President of the Charles Schwab Foundation, and this is what really we bonded over, is that we are both certified Financial Planners, so you know your stuff.

BOBBI REBELL:
You got a lot of other letters after your name, but that's the one that is most special to me, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think so, too. We worked hard, didn't we, Bobbi?

BOBBI REBELL:
We did. That is one hard test, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, yeah.

BOBBI REBELL:
Big pats on the back to us, and kudos to all the CFPs out there who are doing a lot to support people's financial goals, and to act as fiduciaries, which is a really important thing, as well.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, and you know, Bobbi, this is how, again, you bring it up. Here we are, two women, and we need so many more women in our field, and I don't think people realize that this is not a field of match, or stem, or whatever.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
It's about helping people achieve financial security, and I think that we absolutely need more women in the industry to help people achieve that.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and it's also important to be helping our friends, but that's not always an easy thing to do, which brings us to the money story that you're going to share.

BOBBI REBELL:
This is one of the most compelling stories that I have heard yet, because it really goes to the heart of what challenges us when it comes to money, and that is the human side.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us your money story, Carrie.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, this one's a hard one to share. One of my oldest childhood friends, who I love, she's like a sister to me. She's always struggled with money, always worked, and so forth; so I really respect her financial independence, but she didn't always make good decisions.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know? She's not always prioritizing how to spend her earnings. She's a lawyer, by the way, and the one story that just confused me a little bit is ... She has a daughter that went on to college, and she was ... She had been saving for her daughter's college education, but I guess she didn't quite have enough money, and she panicked.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
My girlfriend had been driving a Tesla, much to my chagrin.

BOBBI REBELL:
For those that don't know, what do Teslas go for about? Are they over $100000?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think they're about $90000. Yeah, I imagine ... Definitely not in my budget. And so, she's driving these $90000, her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I had to think to myself, “What's with this?” You know? “Tesla and driving for Instacart? Where are our priorities?”

BOBBI REBELL:
What do you do as a friend when you see a friend making what in your mind are irrational money decisions?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, that's a hard conversation to have, I have to tell you. And, she has had this tendency ... I'll tell you another little story about her. She would buy tickets, like the Rolling Stones would come to town, buy expensive tickets in hopes that she could sell them for a profit.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, guess what? She can't sell them, so she comes to me and my sister in hopes we'll buy them.

BOBBI REBELL:
Oh, my goodness.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, so I just finally ... I had to have some words and some tough love conversations with her, but, you know, the Tesla one, the most recent one ... she kind of knows how I feel. I just have to smile, and grin, and bear it.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, “Why didn't you just get a Prius?” Because she wanted to go across the bridge, I guess you couldn't go through the fast lane, and so forth; but I would not say there's an easy conversation.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I would say I have little conversations along the way, about the importance of having your priorities straight, and really making number one priority, saving and investing for your retirement.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm curious, do people come to you, your friends, informally for advice all the time? Kind of like the doctor that goes to parties and everyone says, “Oh, I've got this little bark here, can you tell me what it is?” Do you get that a lot?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I get it a lot, and to be honest with you, I so appreciate it. A girlfriend of mine, her daughter just got her first job in an investment bank, and I asked right away ... Specially for a young woman, I would say, “Have you started saving in your 401k?” And she said, “No, just because I don't know what to do.”

CARRIE SCHWAB:
She's in New York, and I'm in San Francisco, and I said, “Email me your options at your 401k,” so I took a look at them. I even consulted with one of our Financial Consultants who looks at this stuff every day, and we both agreed that she should be invested in a broad-based index fund that was offered within her plan.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
To me, it's all about participating in the market, specially for young people. When you're talking about retirement, you're talking about up to 40 years, potentially.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes, we live a long time now.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
We live a long time, and put even more than 40 years, so it's so important to invest in a diversified portfolio of stocks, like a mutual fund, or an index fund. It's about participating in the market, it's not about picking the hot stock, or the hot mutual fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Totally agree, so what is your advice, your takeaway in terms of being a financial friend? Admit it, you've had mixed success at. What is your advice for our listeners when they do see friends doing things that they know are not in their best financial interest?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Steer your friends towards professional help; and I would also say there's no shame in getting help. I tell people all the time that even I have a registered Investment Advisor, and even the professionals get help, because it takes the emotion out of it, it makes you accountable. Right?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Because, you know, you're showing up, you're meeting with your representative, and you learn, and you get better results. Give them somebody you totally trust, and then you can take it out and not sort of saturate yourself from the situation.

BOBBI REBELL:
So, Carrie, for your everyday money tip, it is almost holiday season, time to be thinking ... Hopefully we think about it all year-round, but time to be thinking, maybe a little more focused on giving to charity; and there is a way to do this where you often get more bang for your buck, as does the charity. Tell us more.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
The secret is a donor-advised fund. Most financial institutions have them. Schwab has one, I'm Chair of the Board, and basically you can open one up for as little as $5000. The way to make it tax smart is donate appreciated stock, that way you're not paying taxes, and you have more money going to the charity, and then ...

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Whatever amount it is, let's just say $10000, you get to deduct that from your taxes for that particular year. Then, you can take your time on what charities you want to choose from.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Basically there's a search button. We probably have almost all of the non-profits in the system, you point and click, put how much money you want, press “Send,” and we do all the leg work to get that check out to charity.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, what we find, is that 90% of our users say they give more to charity, because of the donor advise fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Tell us more about how people can learn more about you, your work at Schwab. I love your personal Twitter feed, it's awesome. You really have great, inspiring-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, thank you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Messages on there. Where can people find out more?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, you can follow me @carrieschwab, and you can also follow on Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz on Facebook, and I have a lot of my content, my Ask Carrie columns, personal finance columns.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Or, if you want an educational site, I highly recommend schwabmoneywise.com. It does have my Ask Carrie columns, but it has lots of tools, and calculators, and information about every aspect about personal finance; and it's for all levels of knowledge around finance.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes. I have been on the site many times. It is very well done, highly recommend, and highly recommend listening to you more. Thank you so much, Carrie, this has been wonderful.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, so much fun working with you, Bobbi.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, everyone. Love how much you can tell that despite her frustration, Carrie really cares about her friends. Let's get to my tips.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number one. Carrie held back from saying what I would have said to her friend, which is, “Sell the car already!” I know that cars depreciate in value, and so it's hard because you kind of feel like you're losing money, but really, if she needed the cash, why not just downgrade to that less expensive electric car right now?

BOBBI REBELL:
And, while her friend was at it, maybe there are other things that she can sell that she truly isn't using to pay for her daughter's tuition, rather than be delivering groceries in fancy, red, sports cars.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number two. Adding to Carrie's advice, to bring in a third party for financial advice. Very often, the best way to help a friend is often to only be a friend. Bring in professionals to help with, maybe not only the financial stuff, but also when it comes to relationship issues or other major life crises.

BOBBI REBELL:
Not that you can't listen and be supportive. Of course you should, as a friend, but pushing them to make a decision that is obvious to you, and usually the world, could also backfire on your friendship and have long-term ramifications; because the truth is, as much as I think Carrie should have been even more blunt with her friend, and tell her to sell that Tesla already, every time the friend missed her Tesla she could potentially resent Carrie.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, it would take a big toll on their friendship, so it's really a delicate thing. I think Carrie had great advice.

BOBBI REBELL:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. One way to do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to Financial Grownup. I read every one, and they are truly appreciated.

BOBBI REBELL:
Also appreciated, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, whose great story of friendship and money really helped bring us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Serial entrepreneur Lindsey Holden, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of the personal finance app The Long Game, literally played the long game when she spent 5 years living in her family’s veterinary office, to pay off her student loans and build a solid financial foundation. 

In Lindsay’s money story you will learn:

-Why she lived at her family’s veterinary office for 5 years

-Some of the unique experiences she had and what, if anything she would do differently

-How to come up with creative solutions to financial problems

-Tips on how to pay off student debt

In Lindsay’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to stick to your convictions and deflect judgement when making personal money decisions

-Why Lindsay considers herself a minimalist spender

In Lindsay’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to leverage coupon codes using Google ads to get discounts on services like Uber and more.

In My Take you will learn:

-How using gamification can motivate you to save and encourage better money habits

-How to get the most out of a rewards programs

Bobbi and Lindsay also talk about:

-How Lindsay’s app The Long Game works

-Lindsay’s experiences as a serial entrepreneur

EPISODE LINKS

Uber

Google Adwords

Cryptocurrency

https://www.longgame.co/ 

Follow Lindsay!

Twitter @linzor1

Linked In @LindsayHolden

Follow Long Game 

Twitter: @LongGame

Instagram: @LongGameSavings

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lindsey Holden:
It's kind of like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson. And then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, hope that little teaser at the top got you curious. This story is one-of-a-kind. And it makes you think, what would you do to get yourself on solid financial footing if you had debt coming out of school? How far would you go? And for how long? And would you care what people thought?

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to everyone, and thank you for spending time with us. We keep it short here, around 15 minutes, flex time for podcasts. If you find value, the only payment that we ask is that you share it with friends, the ones you care about, the ones you want to live a richer life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Lindsey Holden. She is the CEO and founder of Long Game, which is a personal app that uses games and rewards to incentivize financial habits. All of us could use a little extra motivation. And Lindsey was certainly motivated to get her financial life in order. Great story, my friends. Here is Lindsey Holden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Holden, you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the Long Game. You're certainly in it for the long haul. This is not even your first company.

Lindsey Holden:
Yeah, we built a financial app, so we're an FDIC insured savings account. That have games on top, and you can win up to a million dollars on our app for saving your own money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's awesome. Let's talk about your money story, because that has to do with building a base to now have the kind of success that you're seeing. You kind of took a step back at one point, to make sure you have that firm foundation, and it had to do with sharing a bathroom with 40 people for about five years? Am I getting that right?

Lindsey Holden:
Yes you are. Let me tell you a little more about that. After leaving college, I had a graduate degree. I had also, major student loans, like a lot of people today. And, I had a job offer in San Francisco, which is a very expensive place to live, and my finances are tight. My father owns a veterinary hospital in San Francisco. So I decided to move into a veterinary hospital, in a room in the back, where I did share a bathroom with 40 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain more. How exactly did that work? Were there 40 people living there?

Lindsey Holden:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't think so.

Lindsey Holden:
It was a place of work. Essentially, my bathroom was also shared by the people that work there. And there're specific hours, obviously, where it was much more comfortable to take a shower or whatever it was. But it was kind of a silly thing, but it was a really long period of my life. I had lived there from, I'm embarrassed to say, five years, to pay off my student loans, and get a good start on my career. But there're a lot of silly little things, when you're there. Because you end up being part of a community in the place that you live.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, like what?

Lindsey Holden:
I lived in a room in the back of the hospital, and we had a mouse infestation. Mice, they moved into my room. I was like, "Well, we have so many cats here." So I went downstairs and basically said, "Hey, can I borrow a cat for a minute?" And they're obviously like, "No, you cannot. You cannot take a cat."

Bobbi Rebell:
I thought they were going to say yes.

Lindsey Holden:
I know, me too. There's like a boarding cat, that wants to do some work here.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually accomplished quite a bit, because you did pay off your student loans.

Lindsey Holden:
Exactly, yeah. There's a lot of expectations around starting your career, and having this life that you've always imagined. I think it's really important to be practical, and not to be afraid to have creative solutions, and just develop the foundation that you need to build a life that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things you did, besides not paying rent, to pay off those loans, and form that foundation? So you could go and be an entrepreneur?

Lindsey Holden:
Paying off loans is absolutely huge. Most people today, that are graduating, have student loans, about $38,000 on average. So, to build a lifestyle that you're living well within your means, when you get that first job, is just really important.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things that you did? So you lived rent-free. Were you changing the kinds of foods that you ate? Did you go out less with your friends? What other things helped you achieve that goal?

Lindsey Holden:
I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to things, so I wasn't spending too much on extra things, and trying to really optimize my life in that way. I think that's basically a mindset and an attitude that you can get in, that's really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Holden:
The takeaway is that maybe it's not cool to move in with your parents or whatever, but don't let shame be the driver in this. I think it's ridiculous. The way to really live a cool life is to be an individual, and be responsible for the financial life that you want to live.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever get criticized? Or did you feel like people judged you?

Lindsey Holden:
Not criticized, but it's like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life, as you can imagine. But I just owned it because it was something that, I really care about building the foundation that you need to have the career that you want. And the people that love you, really start to think that's cool too.

Lindsey Holden:
I've had flowers delivered to the front desk there, before. So all the people that work there, just knew my social life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your every day money tip. You have one of the most creative ways I have ever heard of, to really leverage reward codes.

Lindsey Holden:
This one's fun. You know, there're a lot of referral programs out there. When you're playing on the internet a lot, you find creative ways to use these. And one of the things that I did when I was living at veterinary hospital was to run Google AdWords against my Uber code. This can be done with any other referral program, but essentially, the link that you're using is your referral link. And then, you're able to get the money from the referral, which ended up being credits for Uber. It was just a fantastic way to get some free rides around the city.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about the Long Game. So, as I mentioned earlier, this is not your very first venture. You're an experienced entrepreneur. Tell us more about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
Like I said, Long Game is a gamified financial app. We're trying to make banking into a wonderful, joyous experience. And we do that through use of games. A lot of those games are games of chance, where you can win up to a million dollars. But you can also win cryptocurrency in our app. We're always talking to our users and finding out what rewards they want to see in our app. And then using those to help people build a financial foundation that they need.

Bobbi Rebell:
So specifically, how does it work?

Lindsey Holden:
So you download an app, where Long Game, obviously on Google Play and the App Store. You get a FDIC insured savings account. Then, as you save in that savings account, we reward you with games. And you can choose which game you'd like to play. Some of our games are instant win, some of them are a weekly drawing. But they're all giving you a chance where you can win cash. And, the more you save, the more games you can play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come up with this?

Lindsey Holden:
It came from an idea that's called Prize-Linked Savings. It's usually run by financial institutions, or governments, actually, for bonds. But, it's offline, you basically deposit in an account, and there's a monthly raffle, generally. So we've taken that idea, and brought it into an app form, and made it much more engaging and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us more about the future. I know you're always coming up with new games. What can we expect to see next?

Lindsey Holden:
Not only are we coming up with new games, new rewards, all the time, new characters in our app. We're also adding financial products. So, Long Game hopes to be the financial hub that can help you with all your financial needs, in a rewarded way. So you can imagine us later, online banking, letting you pay down your loans, and that sort of thing. And then giving you rewards for completing those actions.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest prize that anyone has won?

Lindsey Holden:
It's a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
A thousand dollars is the most you've given away?

Lindsey Holden:
A lot of people have won a thousand dollars, actually. We've given away over a hundred thousand dollars to-date.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, great. Tell us where people can find out more about you and about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
You can find out more about us on LongGame.co. You can download Long Game in the Google Play store, and the App Store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, to follow you on all your socials?

Lindsey Holden:
On Twitter, I'm @linzor1. And you can find me, Lindsey Holden on the rest of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much Lindsey. This was amazing.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that was a genius money tip there. Super original for sure. DM me if you try it, and let me know how it goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Apps that use gamification to motivate you to adopt better financial habits, are always a good thing. In addition to, of course, checking out the Long Game, some other popular ones are Beeminder. It forces users to make a commitment to a financial goal, and to hit milestones. Now, if you don't hit them, you have to make a payment to Beeminder. Obviously, you can fake out the system, but, if you go with it, it might be just painful enough to make a difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one that's a little different, is Fortune City. Along with bookkeeping and so on, to check expenses, the app has a simulation game to build and grow your own city, so it keeps it interesting. Other more traditional apps that make paying more attention to your money, more fun, and help you achieve savings goals for example, include Acorns, Stash, You Need a Budget, Thrive, and Qapital, that is, Qapital with a Q. I'm going to leave more info in the show notes, which can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcasts/lindseyholden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lindsey talked about sharing her Uber code through Google AdWords. We all get codes all the time. Make sure if you love a product that you use, and you recommend it to a friend, you tell them, give them your code, ask them to use your code, if they try the product. And it's fine to say, "I'll get a bonus," because almost every case, they get something too. And even if they don't, friends want to see you rewarded. So don't be shy about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And every time you sign up something new, don't forget to use a friend's code, that they can share with you. So if you know a friend uses a service, or goes to a certain exercise place, or buys a certain product, ask them, "Do you have a reward code that you can give me, because I might sign up for that as well." Just think for a moment, who you know that uses that product or service, pay forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, I want to thank all of you for sharing your time. DM me, let me know your favorite gamification apps. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell. On Instagram, at bobbirebell1. More about the podcast, at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And did I mention, my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup is now out in paperback. I'd love it if you pick up a copy, and maybe one for a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, to the Long Game's Lindsey Holden, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Million Dollar Listing star Ryan Serhant, whose new book “Sell It Like Serhant” is already a best seller, and his younger brother Jack had what seemed like a brilliant idea for firewood a business at age 10. While the business went down in flames, the lessons formed a foundation for Serhant’s extreme success in the real estate and entertainment business. 

In Ryan's money story you will learn:

-Why he says he was not a natural salesperson

-How 10-year old Ryan and his 7-year old brother started a firewood business to make money on their family farm

-The challenges the boys faced including difficult customers, and uncooperative vendors

-Why they were literally left on the side of the road by a worker!

In Ryan's money lesson you will learn:

-How to deal with challenging customers

-Why you have to anticipate an be prepared with realistic expectations when you start a business

In Ryan's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to use the faces app to motivate you to work harder for your future!

-The specific way that photo helps Ryan avoid overspending

-The impact that the failure of Lehman Brothers had on Ryan's outlook

Ryan and Bobbi also talk about:

-Why Ryan belonged to three gyms

-Ryan's daily routine and how can apply parts of it to your life

-Tips on how entrepreneurs can structure their days

-Why Ryan studies the top business leaders

-Ryan's Finder, Keeper, and Do-er system

-How many times you need to follow up if you want to work for Ryan!

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use the tips from Ryan's book Sell it Like Servant for both offense and Defense when it comes to sales techniques

-How to take Ryan's strategy of studying high achievers to the micro level and apply it to your own life meeting and learning from others

EPISODE LINKS:

Find out more about Ryan at

https://ryanserhant.com

Follow Ryan!!

Instagram @ryanserhant

Twitter @ryanserhant

Get Ryan’s Book "Sell it Like Serhant"

sellitlikeserhant.com

Check out Ryan’s Vlog! youtube.com/ryanserhant

Learn more about Ryan's hit Bravo shows!

Million Dollar Listing New York

Sell It Like Serhant



BIO:

Ryan Serhant began his first day in the real estate business on September 15, 2008 – the same day that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in the wake of the subprime mortgage collapse. While the real estate sector has steadily recovered, Serhant himself has quickly become one of the most successful brokers in the world, with agents under his leadership in New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and the Hamptons. The Serhant Team has been named by WSJ Real Trends as the #1 real estate team in New York for two years in a row, and the #2 team in the country, selling close to $1 billion in real estate last year. Ryan is consistently the youngest broker to make the Journal’s top ten list each year.

Ryan stars in the popular Bravo series “Million Dollar Listing New York,” which just wrapped its seventh season. On September 18, 2018 – the week of his 10-year anniversary in real estate – he will debut his first book, Sell It Like Serhant. When pre-sales were announced, Ryan was #1 on Amazon’s daily list of “Movers and Shakers.” As star and producer, this year he also debuted his new Bravo show, "Sell It Like Serhant," started a successful vlog (www.youtube.com/ryanserhant) and launched an app (Agent Empire: NYC). There is nothing Ryan can't do. His motto communicates his professional and personal philosophy, "Expansion. Always. In all ways."

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Transcription

Ryan Serhant:
We got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his would be in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted the wood actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got in his pickup truck and he drove off and left me and my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was million-dollar listing star and newly minted author, Ryan Serhant, getting real about his first sale experience. It did not go well. Thanks everyone for joining me. This episode is a big deal, and not just because of Ryan Serhant. He is a big deal, though. It's even bigger because it is Episode 100 of the Financial Grownup podcast. We are also celebrating being a finalist for best new personal finance podcast at the Plutus Awards. And, the paperback of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, is coming up October 2nd. None of this would be possible without my amazing editor and secret weapon, Steve Stewart. So, thank you, Steve. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to the fantastic Ryan Serhant. When you read his book, Sell It Like Serhant, and if the title sounds familiar, yes, he has another reality TV show on Bravo called Sell It Like Serhant, you're going to learn more about this incredible guy. But of note, he says he was not a natural salesman. That came later after learning from experience. So, we talked about how he learned about sales and being successful in business. Here is Ryan Serhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ryan Serhant, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And happy pub day, we are taping this on the day that you're amazing book, Sell It Like Serhant: How to Sell More, Earn More, and Become the Ultimate Sales Machine, is coming out. It's already a bestseller and comes on the heels of so much other success. Like million-dollar listing New York, and my new obsession, your vlog. So, congrats on all.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk to you about your money story that you brought. It has to do with the very first experience you had in sales, which makes perfect sense coming from the ultimate sales guy. Tell us about the firewood and your brother.

Ryan Serhant:
So, I wasn't a natural salesperson. And I think it's very hard for people to be born as natural sales people. And what that even means, I could write a whole nother book about it. But I was a very shy and little kid. All I knew was that in order to be able to have money to spend, I had to make money. And if my parents weren't going to give it to me and if I was in school and was too young to get a job, what could I do?

Ryan Serhant:
We lived on a farm outside Boston, and my little brother was seven. We were doing a lot of ... my parents were kind of like cutting down trees and making way for pastures and things like that. And I just saw all these trees laying all over the place. And asked my dad one day, "What are you doing with all of those streets?" He was like, "Wow, they get cut off, they get sold off. They get turned into malts. It just kind of gets recycled." And I was like, "Well, we have fireplaces in our house and we get firewood, don't you buy that from somewhere? What if we take the trees and we cut it up and I sell the firewood?" I had no idea how he's going to do it, I was not big enough to hold an axe. But my dad said. "Okay."

Ryan Serhant:
He said, "What's your company going to be called if you're going to be a firewood selling company?" And we took out a little ad in our local newspaper. I think it was called Ryan Jack, because my little brother's name is jack, Firewood Company. I think that's literally what it was.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who paid for the ad, Ryan?

Ryan Serhant:
We did out of our minimal allowance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, this was your startup capital costs?

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, that was our startup capital cost. Because they were doing all this tree clearing anyway, there was a wood splitter that was already there. And my little brother and I started splitting wood, and we bulk it up into chords, and we put it in the back of a pickup truck. And then we would get the guy that kind of was helping cut down the trees to be our delivery guy to then go supply people with their firewood. And that was our first little business. And it came crashing down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There were some challenges, things you didn't think about.

Ryan Serhant:
Well, I didn't think about customer service and how to deal with people who are unhappy with their firewood. All I knew was I live at this house down the street, there's a bunch of cut down trees, we're going to cut it up and sell it. What do you mean that there's different types of firewood, different types of trees, different types of drying, termites, all these things I didn't even think about?

Ryan Serhant:
So, we had some tough customers in the beginning, and I also didn't think about how I was going to get the word anywhere. So, I thought that the guy that was cutting down trees was going to help and just help us drop it off, we're little kids. But he wanted to cut, and then we got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his wood really really in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted to what actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got his pickup truck, and he drove off and left me my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street which is random guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're kids. Oh, my gosh.

Ryan Serhant:
Yap. That was the end of our firewood business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, in the end, was there a profit or loss when all settled in?

Ryan Serhant:
Definitely a loss. I don't know how much we lost, because I didn't really understand what my time was worth at 10 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Ryan Serhant:
And our capital cost was that one ad. We might have run two ads. I can't remember what they cost. Maybe it was 20 bucks and ad. It wasn't a huge loss, but it definitely was a ding to the self-esteem that maybe I don't want to run my own firewood selling business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Glad you moved on to real estate. What's the takeaway for our listeners?

Ryan Serhant:
The takeaway from that is anticipate and be prepared with realistic expectations. Just having wood to chop down and sell it is a very, very small part of actually creating a firewood selling business. So, you need to be prepared for all the objections and all the issues you're going to run into.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are things that apply to all sales, which we'll get to in just a minute. I just want to get to your everyday money tip.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, there's something that I have in the office. That is a photo of myself as an 80-year-old man. There's this app you can get on your phone called the Faces App, someone just showed it to me. You take your photo of yourself and it realistically ages you, which is pretty crazy. But that photo is future Ryan. And every day, I think about that guy. Because I mean, it feels like just yesterday that I was that 10-year-old kid selling firewood or trying to sell it anyway. Before I know it, I'm going to be that guy. And everything I do today is for him. It's not for Ryan this coming weekend, it's not for Ryan next year. All of that is going to happen regardless. But I don't want 80-year-old Ryan pissed off at 34-year-old Ryan because he made poor money decisions or poor savings decisions, or he's just spent too much. That is my money tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a great one. So, is there a specific ... Can you remember maybe one example of you kind of not being that motivated and then looking at that photo and being like, "Yeah, I got to do this."

Ryan Serhant:
Every time I think about spending money on things that don't need, I look at that photo. It's just like I ... and I don't want to sound cheap. But I don't need that many pairs of shoes. I run around the suit all day long. I don't need that many suits. Little things where I could have spent money and just because I have it or just because whatever, it's just credit, I think about that like, "You know what? I should save it, because compound interest is a powerful thing." And it's better off just being saved because you never know what could happen.

Ryan Serhant:
And at the end of the day, I got into sales business the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and I will never forget the pain that a lot of people went through at the end of 2008. And that's going to come back again, I don't know when. But it's probably going to come back multiple times by the time that I'm that old man in the photo that I have by my computer screen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, because I'm learning so much. Not so much as someone that sells, but as someone that is sold to. So, it's quite eye opening, Ryan, the things that happen.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of written as an offense, but it can also be defense. So, I want to go through some of my favorite things in your favorite things in the book. We talked before we started taping about your day. Tell us how a successful person at age, by the way, you're all of 34, you're always one of the journalist top sales people, you've been winning all kinds of accolades as a salesperson, and you're only 34. What do you? What's your day look like?

Ryan Serhant:
I start my day at 4:30, Monday through Friday. And it's just because I want to squeeze out as much of the day as I possibly can. I don't want-

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you sleeping at 8:00 or ... How much sleep do you get?

Ryan Serhant:
I try to go to bed by 11:00.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you don't sleep a lot of hours.

Ryan Serhant:
Not Monday through Friday. I'll sleep in on Saturdays to like eight or so. A lot of people just wake up and go to a job or go to work, and they don't really sit down and try to game plan for their career. I only have a few things during the day that I do that I consider part of my job. Everything else I do is for growth and for my career as a whole to make that 80-year-old guy happy one day. And a lot of that goes down to how you structure your actual day.

Ryan Serhant:
And for any sales people who are listening, any entrepreneurs, anybody who really answers to themselves, I had to figure out, what do I do at 9:00 a.m.? Do I cold call? Do I go out on the streets? No one's telling me what to do. And so, I looked at the top companies in the world, even I was just one person and I said, "Okay, all just top companies have CEO, CFO, COOs, I need to have the same thing, even though I'm just one person. So, that means I got to do it all on my own, and not all the same time, I need to separate it. You know what? The CEO, I'm going to call the finder, because I'm not really my own CEO. But I can be a finder of new business, a finder of new leads, a finder of work that the rest of my company can do for the rest of the day. I'm going to do that from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. 12:00 to 1:00 p.m., I'll be the keeper, so that's the CFO hours. That's when I would think about, "Okay, well, I've $10 to spend today. How many stamps can I buy with that $10?"

Ryan Serhant:
And I would think about kind of the financial health of my "company", which when I first started was nonexistent. And now it's really thinking about all the advertising budgets that we have, and the people and the moving and the salaries. And then the rest of the day, I'd spend being the doer. So, finder, keeper, doer is what I call it, FKD. So, finder, keeper, doer, and the rest of the day I'd spend as the doer, which is the COO. Sets operations, it's doing the work, it's doing-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which just a few can delegate more now.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, which now, the majority of my day is as the finder. When I started, the majority of my day was as the doer. I'd think for half an hour or an hour, because I didn't have that much to think about as to how I wanted to grow my business, I didn't have any money. So, that wouldn't take me that long to think about. And then the rest of the day, I put everything into action. Now, I have a team that can handle a lot of the doer work, and a team of accountants and bookkeepers that can handle a lot of the financials. And I spend 75% of my day as the finder, as that CEO trying to build the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I loved regarding Finder, and getting new business in the book was your strategy initially, and I don't know if you still do this. I can't imagine you have time to do this. You saw that it was working to meet people at the gym, potential clients. So, you expanded on that.

Ryan Serhant:
Yes. I think it's important to do what works for you, and then just to do it over and over again in as many different places as you can.

Ryan Serhant:
I knew when I first moved to New York City, I'm not from New York. It's not going to help me or be a good use of my time to go to school functions that other brokers are going to just because they went to school on the Upper East Side, or to go to the church, or go to the synagogue, just to say that I'm religious, but I'm not, just to meet people, which is what most sales people do. So, for me, I really had work, I would do to the gym. And the gym was a good place for me to meet people who had a similar interest, which was kind of general fitness. And if I go to a nice gym, maybe they also could afford a nice apartment, so they can afford a nice gym. And that worked. I saw it worked. And I said, "Okay, you know what? This is now my thing. So, I'm going to go to another gym as well. And then I'm going to go to another gym. And I'm going to go to as many jobs as I can, because that's what works for me. And that's going to be where I build my network." And then for the first couple years, that's really what I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thing that you make people do if they really want to work for you? It's not just about one follow up.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, I make them follow up for a considerable period of time. Because the power of follow up is my whole business. Deals live and die by how persistent I am to get the deal done. And I tell everybody, I don't work for anyone. I work for the deal all the time as a salesperson. And my job is to get that deal done to everybody's benefit. And so, if people want to work for me, I interview them, for sure. I have them interview a couple people on the team. But then I just, I call them. I let them sit and I wait to see how often they're going to follow up with me. Most people will follow up once, twice, maybe three times. And after that, they let it go.

Ryan Serhant:
You know how many deals I would have lost if I let it go after three follow ups? Unbelievable. So, I can't have that kind of person on my team. They got to want to be on my team more than I want them to be there, because that's the person who's going to be hungry enough to get difficult deals done for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much amazing information in your book and on your vlog, by the way. We didn't really talk about that. That's million-dollar listing, I didn't really realize this until you talked about it in your book, it's only on for three months of the year. So, people need to be watching your vlog.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, I think so. I put it out there as a way to put out a lot of the rest of my life and a lot of things that just aren't on Bravo. Bravo is real estate focused and it follows the individual deals. It's not with me in the car 24 hours a day, kind of in my thoughts and in my mindset, and that's what the blog is for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right. Tell people where they can find you, follow you, find out more, get the book, all that good stuff.

Ryan Serhant:
The book just came out today, it's called Sell it Like Serhant, it's everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you can find all the links at sellitlikeserhant.com. You can find me across all social media platforms at Ryan Serhant, and the vlog is @youtube.com/ryanserhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Ryan. This was great.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's unpack some of the things that Ryan said. Financial Grownup tip number one. I read Ryan's book twice. The reason I went back was to take notes. Now, I'm not in sales, at least not in a direct way. But I think it is important for all of us to understand how sales work, and the specific techniques that are being used so you can spot them. I joke about offense and defense, but that is important too. Because if we're being honest, who hasn't bonded with a salesperson, and then because of that felt they should, and sometimes did buy something they maybe wouldn't have bought otherwise? Always know that a good salesperson like Ryan will be in it for the long haul. And you can just push back. And even if you aren't a customer, now, you may be in the future. Also, the next best thing you can do is refer them to friends and family as potential customers. It's okay to do what's right for you, even if you feel an allegiance to the salesperson. We're all human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Ryan talks about how he studied the most successful companies and what top executives do. Take this to a micro level and find someone that you admire and ask them if they will talk to you. It can be coffee, a meal, or going for a walk. And if you can, maybe even ask if you can shadow them for a day at work. I did this early in my career. Just observe and learn. And if they're open to it, ask a lot of questions. Most people are flattered.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I am off to Orlando to FinCon and celebrating this 100-podcast milestone with some friends. I hope you guys will DM me and let me know what you want to see in the next 100 episodes. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1. I have some big changes coming that I will reveal soon, so please subscribe and make sure you go into settings and hit auto download so you don't miss any episodes. Until then, feeling really grateful to Ryan Serhant for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Refinery 29’s work and money vertical editor Lindsey Stanberry and her frugal husband were checking all the boxes as financial grownups. But when they had a child, the new parents found themselves scrambling to make sense of their new urge to splurge. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

-The financial changes that come with having children

-How to adapt a budget when financial values change

-Tips on how make career decisions while balancing a family

In Lindsey's money lesson you will learn:

-How big changes impact little everyday purchases 

-Two of Lindsey's biggest financial regrets

In Lindsey's every day money tip you will learn:

-The benefits of a high-yield savings account

-The app she uses to sell her clothes and make extra cash

Bobbi and Lindsey also talk about

-Her new book Money Diaries

-What women are spending their money on right now

-The Money Diaries series updated regularly on Refinery 29

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to save money on baby clothes

-Travel more! Ways to plan amazing trips whether you have kids or not

EPISODE LINKS

https://www.refinery29.com/

Follow Lindsey!

Instagram @lestanberry

Twitter @lestanberry

Follow Refinery 29!

Instagram @refinery29

Twitter @refinery29

Facebook @Refinery29

Check out the companies Lindsey mentioned! 

Poshmark 

Capital One 

Trader Joes 

Bank of America 

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Transcription

Lindsey Stanber:
He has said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Refinery29 Money Diaries author Lindsey Stanberry talking about how her natural instinct to always save money took a nose dive after the birth of her son. I think a lot of new parents can relate to this, feeling like they would spend their very last penny on their kid even if things were very different before baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. We keep the show short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to do a little bit of binging, and if you like the show, maybe do a screen grab and share it so we can grow the podcast. And speaking of growing the podcast, big news, Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast for the Plutus Awards which celebrate excellence in money content. So thank you for all of your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the paperback of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, is coming out in October. So if you have not had a chance to read it, I hope you'll check it out, and again, share with someone you care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Refinery29 Money Diaries and our amazing guest, Lindsey Stanberry. Now, the book grew out of Refinery29's popular series by the same name and gives a very detailed, and I mean detailed, look of the spending habits of millennial women. The stories are jaw dropping. The reactions to them are dramatic in the comments. But I wanted to know more about Lindsey and her money diary stories so I pushed her to talk about something that she has yet to reveal, and that is money life after baby and what that does to one's money diary.

Bobbi Rebell:
She and her husband were the best of budgeters. They didn't eat out. They were champion savers. They bought an apartment in their 20s and were checking all the boxes on retirement and investing until they had the baby. And then it all went poof, well, not all poop, but life changed. Here is Lindsey Stanberry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Stanberry, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Money Diaries so I could not have been more excited when your book Money Diaries from Refinery29 came out. Congratulations on all the early success because it just was released, and of course, it is number one new release on Amazon. Love it.

Lindsey Stanber:
Generally awesome. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you did this all in a very busy time in your life because not only are you married, you have a relatively young child, I think a one-year-old? Is that correct?

Lindsey Stanber:
Ike has just turned two.

Bobbi Rebell:
He just turned two. So happy birthday.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to your money story. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So I've talked a lot of in the past about how my husband and I saved $100,000 to buy our first apartment in New York. And my husband is very frugal, and by extension, I've become more mindful of my money. Two years ago, when we had our son, we knew it was going to change our budget. We had to sell that apartment and buy a new one and start paying for child care, and we anticipated those big expenses. But I was really shocked at how my time became much more valuable than it had ever been before. And I talk about in the book this incident where my husband and I were at Trader Joe's having a fight over organic yogurt.

Lindsey Stanber:
My son is an incredibly picky eater. He has been since the moment we introduced solids. We will try everything, and we end up throwing away all that food. And it drives me absolutely crazy. And I write in the book about this experience of realizing that my time is so valuable, and I'm wiling to spend more money in ways that I never anticipated and had never before. My husband dubbed it Baby bourgeois.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's been a weird and stressful experience for us. And I just had to kind of let go of some of that control and feel appreciative that we were so careful with our money in our 20s when we were able to just worry about ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something that you spent money on, now that you have a child, that you never would have thought have spending money on before?

Lindsey Stanber:
People think that I'm crazy but like service fees to go to the movies. We would have never in a million years paid extra money to reserve tickets online. We would specifically go early to the box office to buy the tickets, and we would save the $2. And now, it's just like well if you want to see the movie, first of all, you're going to have to find a babysitter, and that's really expensive, and then you want to make sure you can actually get into the movie. So we're pre-buying our movie tickets now, and that $2 is just out the window.

Lindsey Stanber:
But then also stuff like we would never pick up milk from the place around the corner because it was $1 more, but now we do because I want more time with my kid. I don't want to go out in the rain. I am tired after working and writing a book and taking care of a baby. But it's also made me a lot more ambitious. I care about earning money more than I have before which surprised me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Well, I think that when you think about things like negotiating or saying yes to something, I took on this book, which is an incredible opportunity, but I did take it on top of my regular job and on top of having a kid. And I knew I was going to have to make some sacrifices in my personal life, but I did that with the idea that this would be something that would help me grow my career, and that would ultimately be good for my family and, in theory, help me earn more money in the long run.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's a real push pull, and I think that I am more excited about opportunities, but I'm also more careful about what I say yes to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting though also is that you and your husband don't always approach spending as parents in exactly the same way. Tell us about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
He was a reluctant parent and very open about that, and I appreciate that. He said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them. It's been a struggle for both of us to figure out how this spending is changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Stanber:
I think people expect those big expenses. They expect that childcare will be a huge chunk of their budget, but they don't think about the small things. I joke in the book I'm never going tell you not to buy a latte, but enjoy buying that latte and saving that money when you only have you to worry about because your finances do change so significantly when you have a kid and in a good way. I'm happy to spend my money on him. I say that in the dedication to the book. It's a joy, but it does really change things, and it's really important to talk about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things that you look back on that you would have done differently?

Lindsey Stanber:
There's two things. I wish I had started investing earlier. I was always very nervous about the stock market, having been a young adult when the recession happened last time, and I have always felt really intimidated by that, and I wish we had been smarter and not sat on so much cash. And this is the thing that would have cost money, but I wish we had traveled more. It's expensive now to do it with a kid, and we could have done it cheaply and smartly. And we worked so hard in our 20s, and I'm really proud of the work we did, but I definitely wished we would have taken a few more vacations.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hear you. Traveling with kids and with a family is a lot. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because that is a way that people can pretty much instantly, at least, have a trickle more cash. Maybe a little extra money for their latte or maybe money to then move into other kinds of investments. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
One thing that we recommend in the book is getting a high-yield savings account. I have a Bank of America account and a Capital One account and the differences in their 401Ks is crazy. Bank of America I think is like zero, zero, zero ... It's negligible. I get like 38 cents every quarter versus my Capital One savings account, which I think is like 1.85, and I have a nice little emergency fund in there and so I get a little bonus each month that I kind of consider my free money. My husband just bought some sunglasses, and I was like, "Oh, I think that some of our interest rate covered that. So don't worry about it," which is not necessarily the most responsible way to think about that interest rate, but it is nice to have that little extra bonus.

Lindsey Stanber:
We talk about side hustles in the book too, and that's a way that we saved a lot of money. So there's lots of little tweaks that you can make to find cash that can be used to buy that latte.

Bobbi Rebell:
What other tweaks do you have? Other ideas?

Lindsey Stanber:
I am such a fan of selling clothes on Poshmark. It's a little embarrassing. I'm totally addicted, and I use that money to buy new clothes. I'm a little bit more careful about my shopping these days because of said child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get your kids clothing then? Do you buy new or are you buying that off the websites? Does Poshmark do kids clothing? I know there's a lot of other ones for kids.

Lindsey Stanber:
I think they do. I don't ever buy cloths. I have two very doting grandmothers who dress him, and I never buy anything. There's a really fantastic kind of underground parent exchange at both Refinery and among my friends. So we do lots of hand-me-downs and trades. And I didn't buy a car seat for a long time because I used my boss's, and yeah, it's been great. And then I just hand that all off to other people. So clothing, my kid is cheap. It is free. Feeding him is not.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to talk later. We're going to work on that food thing. I have some ideas for you about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about Money Diaries because this came out of a successful series that you have shepherded over at Refinery29. Tell us more about the book because what I love about this is it's really similar to my mission here at Financial Grownup. It's really about opening the door to very personal and candid stories about the reality of how people actually approach their money in different situations but so many universal themes.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It was really important to me that this book, not shame the readers. We present Money Diaries without judgment. And the comment section on Money Diaries can be, at times, very judgmental. But for us, from Refinery perspective, we don't want you to feel bad. I think that there's so much ... Especially for women, there's a lot of guilt around both earning money and spending money, and I really wanted to get rid of that and to just really talk to our readers like you do, like a grown up, and not be condescending or a bully or make them feel bad because they like to buy a latte on their way to work every morning because they hate their job.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's really thinking about how your spending impacts your life now and how it can impact your future, and that future doesn't need to be 100 years from now when you're retiring. It can be what you do next year or what you do five years from now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what's interesting is that a lot of these stories reveal trends that you see, not only the stories in the book, but it's an ongoing living series on Refinery29.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It's really interesting to see how women interact with their money and how there are things that are deeply personal. There are things that are ... We don't reveal anything about race or ethnic background in these or sexuality, but if you're a careful reader, you can pick up some clues. And so it's very interesting to see how a woman of color manages her money versus the famous intern who is getting $3,000 a month from her parents. It's fascinating-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Which do get a lot of judgy comments to say the least.

Lindsey Stanber:
On both sides, they're getting judgy comments. So it's interesting. But then we do see trends like there's a lot of spending on self-care right now because people are really uncomfortable in this political climate, and we see couples struggling to figure out how they're going to manage their finances. A lot of women who are maintaining separate bank accounts and tracking every dollar that their partner spends. It's really interesting. I always say that personal finance is very personal, but there are definitely themes and things that we go back to again and again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I know you're going on a book tour so I want you to give people all the information about how they can find out about that and follow you and Refinery29 on all the socials.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So you can read Money Diaries daily at Refinery29. We also have an awesome Facebook group. And of course, you can follow Refinery on Instagram and Twitter, and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram as well at lestanberry and I will be doing lots of fun stories around the book tour. I'm really exited about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. Super fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so think about what would be in your money diary and would you have the courage to share it publicly. Hm. Here's my take on what Lindsey had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 1. She talked about free clothing for kids. Well in addition to the places that she mentioned, which are great, especially, grandparents, parenting Facebook groups are a great way to get not just free clothing, but also toys and furniture. Be sure to join one that is hyper local because very often the givers only ask is that you come to them and pick it up in person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2. Lindsey mentioned that she regretted not traveling more before kids, and I couldn't agree more. For my family if all five us go, it is a lot. I mean breakfast alone, crazy. So another challenge is that kids have different interest, especially if you have kids that are boys versus girls or are different ages, which are spread out. That's what I have. I have older step-kids that are now in college, and then I have an 11 year old.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one idea is to do smaller, one or two kid trips. You don't all have to go. And you could have one parent go and not just two. So for example, we recently went, my husband and I, with the 11 year old to Iceland, just him. Another time, my husband took the older two kids to Washington DC when my son was younger because he wouldn't have been interested. He would have been bored to tears, but it was a great time for the older kids to go and see the nation's capitol.

Bobbi Rebell:
Each time, it was three of us on a trip, which is a lot less than five if you can imagine. And usually, at that point, you can be hotel room, which makes a huge difference. And we weren't dragging kids that didn't want to be there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do one trip at least a year or some trips with all of you, it just doesn't have to be every trip with everyone. And the more direct one-on-one time is also really special. And when you take just some, maybe it's a good time for the kids that aren't going to spend time with other relatives like grandparents or aunts and uncles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Show notes can be found at Bobbirebell.com/podcast/lindseystanberry where we'll have all the information that she said at the end about how to follow Money Dairies and all the places that she mentioned. Be sure to [inaudible 00:16:12] me on all the socials. I am at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter. Find out more about the podcast at Bobbirebell.com/Financialgrownuppodcast, and thanks to Refinery29 Money Diaries author, Lindsey Stanberry for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

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Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

---

Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge. 

In Melissa’s money story you will learn:

-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness

-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways

-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience

In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Melissa prioritized her business growth

-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business

-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!

In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs

-The things you might want to pay for

-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space

-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions

-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide

-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs

Bobbi and Melissa also talk about

-The She Shift brand and her book

-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations

-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast

In My Take you will learn:

-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience

-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused

-The importance of consistency in brand building

-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready. 

Episode Links

Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com

Follow Melissa and the She Shift!

Facebook TheSheShift

Twitter @thesheshift

Instagram @thesheshift

LinkedIn :Melissa Clark

Create Space

 

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author

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Transcription

Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.

Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business

Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.

Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?

Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.

Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?

Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.

Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?

Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?

Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.

Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.