Kara Perez of Bravely go and The Fairer Cents podcast shares how she tackled more than $25,000 in student debt making between $9 and $12 an hour. Plus her go-to home recipes for making foods you normally buy in the store including bread, pickles and tomato sauce.

“I had 5 student loans total. Four of them were public. One was private. And zero financial education.”

Kara’s money story:

Kara Perez:
Yes, so let me paint you a picture. I'm 26; I'm living in Austin, Texas. The year is 2014 and I am crying about money every day, because I don't have any and I have a lot of student loan debt and it's ruining my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, just paint the numbers. What do the numbers look like?

Kara Perez:
Yeah. So, in 2014 I made $18,000. I graduated college in 2011 with $25,302, so flash forward back to 2014, I still have a little over $18,000 in debt. So, my income is equivalent to my debt. I'm making between $800 and $1,100 a month, working as a caterer for $12 an hour and as an MMA gym receptionist for $9 an hour.

So, the money is not really there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And how did you feel?

Kara Perez:
Oh, I felt awful. I just was very much so treading water, if not falling backwards. I had to put one of my student loans ... I had five separate student loans ... I had to put one of them into deferment, because I couldn't make payments on it. I just didn't have enough money. And I was living in Austin, Texas with three roommates. I was trying to be frugal, but it was just ... the numbers quite literally did not add up, and I felt trapped, because I didn't know anything about money.

I didn't know how to use what I had. I didn't know how to get more of it, and I had no idea how to tackle my debt. It just felt like a weight on my shoulders everyday.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I just want to dial back a little bit. How did the debt come about in that, when you were taking it out, did you receive any financial education in the schools? Was it federal loans? Were they private loans? Were you consolidating them? What did this debt look like?

Kara Perez:
Yeah. I had five student loans total. Four of them were public; one was private, and zero financial education. I mean, god bless my mom in many ways, but growing up, we didn't talk about money, except for the fact that we didn't really have to. Single parent household. I have two siblings, and it was just very much so like, no we can't get that. We don't have the money for it. Not, hey, here's what the budget looks like and here's how much we're spending on rent, so we can't spend such and such ... you know, I just didn't have that break down. And in college, I also didn't get that break down.

And so, the narrative I heard was like, well, you'll take out loans so you can afford to go to school, you'll get a job and you'll pay them back. But of course I graduated in 2011, which was the aftermath of the recession and no one cared about my degree in English and jobs were changing and the workplace was changing. That path of take out the loans, get the job, open a 401K, pay back the loans, it wasn't really there anymore.

And so, it was just a whole lot of, "What am I doing?" in my mid-twenties.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what was the Google search for? What did you search on Google for?

Kara Perez:
Quite literally, how to pay off student loans faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did you find?

Kara Perez:
What was amazing is that a bunch of people who were blogging about personal finance popped up, and now I'm friends with many of those people. I fell into the world of personal finance blogging, where people were sharing their own stories in very casual ways of, "Hey, we're trying to pay off $100,000 in medical school debt," or "We're saving to buy our house in cash." And I thought, okay, this story features a cop and a teacher. If they can do it, I can do it.

For the first time, instead of feeling overwhelmed by money, this insight into other people's stories via their blogs made me feel like, oh, you're a normal person; I'm a normal person. If you can do it, I can do it.

So, from that, I spent two months just voraciously reading personal finance blogs, everything, anything. I was just crushing it. And then I started implementing some of the things I learned in my own life. So, even though I still had a really tiny income, I was able to pay off about $3,000 in 2014 in student loan debt. And so I was making $18,000, paid of $3,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
What specifically did you do? What were the first things that you learned?

Kara Perez:
First thing I learned was to sign up for automatic withdrawals from my checking account to pay my student loans, because I got a .25 percent interest reduction. So, even though it was a teeny amount, and even though I was scared because I didn't always have money in the account, I signed up for it anyway and just committed to always having money in the account. I was like, I'll just find a way. If that means I have to cut back on going out, that's totally fine. If that means I have to pick up an extra shift, I'll pick up an extra shift, but I want to get that reduction so I pay less in interest and I can get out of debt faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, what other things did you do that you learned?

Kara Perez:
The other biggest thing I would say was just getting organized about which debt I was paying off at a time, because I used to just make an extra $20 payment on this loan and an extra $20 payment on that loan, and my extra payments were kind of just thrown all over the place, and thus they weren't really making an impact.

So, I streamlined it. I used the debt avalanche pay off method, and made all my extra payments on my highest interest debt, and that really started compounding quickly, because an extra $20 every two weeks starts to add up, and then the more money ... I started also focusing on earning more, and in 2015 I made $32,000, which felt like, whoo, so much money!

I was able to put more towards the debt and make an extra $100 payment or something every two weeks, and it really, really started to go down quickly.

“With the right information and the right application you can change your life”

Kara’s money lesson:

The biggest lesson is, with the right information and the right application, you can change your life. So, even if you are really low-income or you're working part-time jobs, or you don't have access to a lot of tools that maybe you see other people having access to, find out what works for you. So, for me, again, it was signing up to get that interest reduction. It was getting very frugal. It was making more money via picking up other side hustles, so that I could funnel all of that toward my debt.

“It often is a healthier choice to make things at home, as well as a time saving and money saving choice”

Kara’s money tip:

Kara Perez:
Yeah, so I am a big ... well, I don't want to say a big, but I am becoming a big at-home cook.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all evolving.

Kara Perez:
We're all evolving. I'm trying, because I spent so long in the food service industry, I would always take home leftovers. I didn't have any cooking skills. So, this year, I have really focused on making more things from scratch, and I know that sounds a little like, oh, bougie, like, oh you have the time, and you have the energy to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and not only that, it's just intimidating also, because a lot of things that you think ... you look around the supermarket and things are made for you. There are things ... it's one thing to say, I'm not going to buy prepared food. I can cut up the cantaloupe myself. Okay, we know you can do that, but a lot of things that we buy, that I assume have to be made in a factory, apparently don't.

Kara Perez:
Definitely not. So, my big thing this year has been making homemade bread, which sounds, again, kind of intimidating, but it's actually so easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because what if you don't have a bread maker. I don't even have room if I wanted to get one for a bread maker.

Kara Perez:
Right. I don't have a bread maker either. You just put your flour, your yeast, your salt and if you want to put something like oats or something in there, you just put it in a bowl, mix it all up with some water, and then you let it rise over night.

The mixing takes two minutes max, you let it rise, and then you pop it in the oven for about 30 minutes, and then boom, beautiful, delicious bread.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, why does everybody feel they have to buy a bread maker? What do the bread makers do?

Kara Perez:
I honestly don't even know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know. I hope the bread maker people don't come after us.

Kara Perez:
The bread maker lobby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, but there are appliances for every little thing that I don't think that I don't think we really necessarily need, because that's one of my hesitations is, I don't want to do that, I don't want to take out. Like I know I could make mayonnaise myself, but you have to take out the food processor or whatever.

So, there's a couple other things that you're actually going to tell us how to make by ourselves, without having to go to the store, which by the way, also, you're avoiding all the preservatives and all that yucky stuff.

Kara Perez:
Yeah, it often is a healthier choice to make things at home, as well as a time saving and money saving choice. So, I also have started making pickles at home, which is, again, just literally you cut up the cucumbers, you stick them in your jar with some vinegar, some herbs, water, garlic and then you put the top on, and put it in the fridge for 12 hours, and then you've got pickles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I would never think about that. All you have to do take the cucumber and do that, and then it's pickles.

Kara Perez:
Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But we always just ... I don't know. It never occurred to me.

Kara Perez:
Yeah, it does work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You got one more.

Kara Perez:
And I make tomato sauce, which we eat a lot of pasta in my house, and so, that, again, it's just kind of stewing the tomatoes, the onions, the garlic, for about 30 minutes and then, boom, tomato sauce.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I know making pasta is actually not that complicated either. It's basically just making the dough, and you don't need the fancy pasta-maker. You could just cut it into spaghetti or fettuccine or whatever shape you want. There's even just, little rollers that can make different shapes. So, you don't need the fancy pasta machine, that you therefore don't have to buy, and in my case, also, you don't have to have counter space for, because I'm in an apartment. So, I think that's a big thing to remember, that these don't require special equipment.

Kara Perez:
That's such a good ... I didn't even know that. I've been intimidated to make pasta, but now maybe that will be my goal for the next month, make some homemade pasta.

Financial grown-up tip number one:

Be proactive and take ownership of your financial challenges, and don't over-complicate them. For Kara, just having the information by Googling it, and looking up the most simple stuff and then figuring out the tools to create debt re-payment strategies was enough to get her on the path to success.

Financial grown-up tip number two:

Think about the things that we buy from the store that we don't have to buy. We already kind of have them right there, just in a different form. Maybe the labeling is different, but we basically already have them. We don't have to pay up for the fancy brand name.

For example, a lot of cleaning solutions are made up combining products you already have. Sometimes, just adding water. So, for example, and I got this from the Good Housekeeping Institute, which I'll leave a link to in the show notes. You could mix four tablespoons of baking soda with a quarter of warm water and you have a cleaning solution that works on kitchen counters, appliances and the inside of your refrigerator, so you don't need to buy separately another cleaning item, which may even have more chemicals added, who knows what, and you're keeping it simple.

And if you aren't impressed with the money that you are saving doing that, which you should be in general, okay, think of it as keeping your home less cluttered, and your to-do list shorter because you have one less product in your life, and that is, as I said, much less clutter. Just think how proud Marie Condo would be.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Kara’s website - www.BravelyGo.co

• Kara’s course - Talk Money To Me

• The Fairer Cents podcast

• Good housekeeping article - https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/tips/a24885/make-at-home-cleaners/

• The Four-Hour Week by Timothy Ferriss
  

Follow Kara!

• Instagram - @webravelygo

• Facebook - @webravelygo

• LinkedIn - @BravelyGoLLC

Cameron Huddleston wrote her new book “Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk. How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances” when she found herself confronted with huge issues after not talking to her mom about her money- which she shares on the podcast. The book hits on a huge issue impacting all generations and all income levels. 

Cameron's money story:

Cameron Huddleston:
Yes. I had moved from Washington DC where I was working for Kiplingers Personal Finance magazine. I had moved to my home state of Kentucky, actually across the street from my mom. I said to her, "Mom, I think you need to look into long-term care insurance." She and my father had divorced years before that, and she was living on her own. I knew that if she had any long-term care needs, it would be helpful to have long-term care insurance to help cover those costs. She took my advice-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, for people that don't know long-term care insurance is specifically to cover things like a nursing home that you would live in. That kind of thing.

“A big benefit of having a third party involved with these conversations is because your parents might be reluctant to talk to you but they are going to listen to the advice of someone else.”

Cameron Huddleston:
Yes, assisted living, memory care, and in case you don't know this, Medicare does not cover those costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's a typical cost of that if somebody or their parents end up having to pay that out of pocket?

Cameron Huddleston:
The average cost of assisted living is about $4,500 a month. That's average. A nursing home is 80-$90,000 a year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so you moved back home to across the street from your mom, and you're learning about her situation?

Cameron Huddleston:
Yes. I asked her to check in a long-term care insurance. She took my advice. She met with an insurance agent. Unfortunately, she did not qualify for coverage, because she had another preexisting condition that made her too high risk. At that point I should have said, "Okay mom, you can't get long-term care insurance coverage. Let's look at your financial assets, figure out where you stand, and figure out how we would pay for this care if you needed it."

I can look back and say, that's what I should've said, but I didn't. I didn't even think about it at all. Say being what it is, a few years later, she started having trouble with her memory. At that point, I knew I needed to act quickly and talk to her, but because I was already facing a crisis, if I wanted to start talking to her about money, I would have to explain to her why, "Mom, we need to talk about your finances, because I can see you're having trouble with your memory."

I didn't want to have to be the one to tell her that. I didn't care about talking to her about money. That didn't feel like a taboo topic to me. I didn't want to tell her that I thought she was losing her memory. Eventually, with the help of a doctor actually, I got her doctor to suggest that she get tested for dementia, and he did.

During that process I said, "Mom, I think we need to go meet with your attorney and get all your legal documents updated. Because the thing is you have to be competent, mentally competent to sign a will or a living trust, a power of attorney document, and an advanced healthcare directive. If you are no longer competent, you cannot sign those documents."

Then if you get into a situation like my mother did where she is no longer able to make financial and healthcare decisions on her own, if she had not named me power of attorney and healthcare power of attorney, I would have had to go to court, basically put her on trial to prove that she was no longer competent, spent thousands of dollars to get conservatorship for her. I act too quickly. I knew I had to do this. She was still competent enough. I dodged a bullet, but then I had to figure out her finances while she was already forgetting things, and it was so difficult.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So how did that work? What did you find?

Cameron Huddleston:
I had to approach it very carefully. I didn't want to look like I was going in and taking over, especially in the early stages of her dementia. I didn't want her to feel like she was losing all of her independence. So I just did things little by little.

One of the benefits of meeting with the attorney was that she suggested that we go to the bank, and put me on her account as her representative payee. That's certainly a big benefit of having a third-party involved with these conversations is because your parents might be reluctant to talk to you, but they're going to listen to the advice of someone else. So the attorney said go to the bank. We took her advice, and then that sort of opened the door to having some more conversations about what role I was going to have to play going forward.

She had all this cash just sitting in her bank account. Fortunately, she had not opened an online account. She was so old fashioned, she never used debit card. She used checks. So I was able to go online and set-up online banking for her and monitor her bank account, because one of the issues that she was having was writing checks to every organization that would send her something in the mail, like organization she had no ties to.

So, I had to make sure she wasn't just spending all her money writing these charitable contribution checks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is something that happens to a lot of seniors.

Cameron Huddleston:
Oh yeah, it's a big problem. Then you've got to worry about scammers and stuff. I decided to take that money and put it into an annuity. Not that you or I would necessarily recommend that everyone get an annuity, but I knew that it would be a safe place to put her money. It would earn some interest, hands off for several years, and then use it down the road when I needed it to pay for her care.

Cameron’s money lesson:

Cameron Huddleston:
The lesson is please don't wait to have these conversations with your parents. A lot of people I talk to and hear from say, "Well, I don't need to have this conversation yet. We're not there yet. Mom and dad are still healthy." That is exactly the time you need to have it. You need to have the conversations when your parents are healthy. There's not a financial crisis, there's not a health crisis, because then everyone is entirely competent. Your parents know what assets they have, what they don't have, what legal documents they have.

“You need to have the conversations when your parents are healthy. There is not a financial crisis. There is not a health crisis. Because then everyone is entirely competent.”

You have time to get those legal documents if they don't have them. Emotions are not running high. There's so many more options available to you. If a crisis does arise, you can make a plan for how they are going to age comfortably. You can't do that if there's already a crisis.

Cameron's everyday money tip:

Cameron Huddleston:
I think I have a pretty good tip. It's something that I have done myself. I set-up alerts with my credit card account. It's so easy. You just log onto your account online. There's usually most credit card companies will have a place where you can click on alerts and notifications. I set it up to get alerts every time my credit card is used. The benefit of this is that it alerts you to fraud, which has happened to me.

“If your parents are counting on your to be their caregiver.. wouldn’t you rather know this now .. because you might have to prepare your own finances”

It was really an unfortunate situation. I was at a visitation for a family member who had died, and my phone, it was like a little ding from the message. I looked at it and it said my credit card had been used. Then I got another ding that it was used again and I was like, "Wait a second, I did not make these charges." I got on the phone, called my credit card company and I said, "I think my credit card number has been stolen. I want you to flag these transactions as fraud and I want to cancel my card." Thank goodness for the alerts. I mean, I knew right away that there was something fishy.

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Make sure proactive decisions are being made about insurance, not just for yourself and your immediate family, but also for anyone who is what I would call stakeholders in your family financial ecosystem. So everyone whose finances could impact yours, only you can decide if you need and at what amount you may need. For example, life insurance, long-term care insurance, healthcare insurance and so on.

Make sure those decisions are being made for everyone that is tied to you financially, because the decisions made or not made can and in many cases, will impact your life. So make sure that the people you care about have the information and that they're making decisions. Because obviously as we always say, not making a decision is actually making a decision. It's just not one that you are aware of all the time.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

If you don't feel comfortable having these conversations now, this is what you need to do. Go through in your mind and play out how things could go if you don't get this done, if you don't have the conversations, what happens? It may give you some motivation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Read Cameron's book for example of the reality of how this goes. For her, it was not perfect but she dodged a bullet as she says, but she gives some examples that will certainly motivate you because things can go very bad, very fast, very unexpectedly and with a very high price tag. Even what seems like the most basic things can be huge stresses at the worst time. As an example, a relative of mine recently passed, and when we visited her husband a few days later, rather than focusing on his own emotional healing, he was actually stressed out just trying to figure out her passwords. I mean, that's terrible.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Cameron’s website - www.CameronHuddleston.com

Cameron’s Book - Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances

Follow Cameron!

• Facebook - @CameronHuddlestonMoneyExpert

• Twitter - @CHLebedinsky

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

Jen Hemphill: The first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.


We were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give.

I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell: Were they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill: I don't think it was that. That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell: Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill: I'm also a saver.

When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell: Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill: It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell: Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift, a loan?

Jen Hemphill: Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him. He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell: It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill: Yes, because then emotionally we don’t get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

A little bit about Jen’s book:

The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

In my take you will learn:

Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s book Her Money Matters

Jen’s website - www.JenHemphill.com

Follow Jen!

Twitter - @jenhemphilll

Instagram - @jenhemphill

Facebook - @Jennifer.Hemphill

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Episode 200!

Bobbi shares 20 quick and easy ways to be a little more Financial Grownup some of her hopes for the podcast as the show grows up. 

Bobbi: This is a surreal episode. We are celebrating number 200 - and I want to first thank everyone for your support. The DM’s that you send me mean so much- as do reviews so just thank you and I hope I keep delivering value to all of you. Please be in touch and keep letting me know what you like and what you want to hear more of.. and I will do my best to deliver. So for this special episode I kind of wanted to do something fun directly with you guys, 

20 quick and easy Financial Grownup tips

1. Organize your closet to know what you own and be able to find it when you want to use it. Full disclosure I’m in the process. When we moved into our apartment- oh a decade ago- stuff got put away. and we all know how that goes. We are dong a major re-org and I’m working up to actually spending money on a closet system. There’s always something more important- right? I’ll keep you posted and leave links in the show notes for resources. But knowing what you have will keep you from spending on things you.. already have. And if we are being honest- unless you are that really organized person we all aspire to be- it probably has happened. 

2. Donate or sell clothing you have not worn for two years- or choose your own time frame but no a decade is not acceptable and yes I have clothing that is a decade old. So i’m on it too. Let’s face it- we all have stuff  that we know was a mistake-buy. I give myself a 5 out of 10 on this one. There’s more room to go on this. Make sure to get a receipt in case you end up deducting donations on your taxes

3. Go on that trip. Modify it to fit your budget but to not put off your life until you feel you are a “grownup”. I had a hard time last year going to Iceland. It’s expensive. So we went for just 4 nights. Don’t sit home not living your life. That’s definitely not grownup. 

4. Decide on purpose if you are buying or renting for the next 5 years. In other words have a plan.. and play out the scenario of how your finances are impacted by that decision. Write it down and maybe discuss with someone you feel comfortable talking money with. 

5. Make sure your  side hustles actually accomplish a goal. If it’s money- make sure you are making enough to justify the time. If it’s for fun- make sure you really are having fun. Don’t side hustle just because its a thing

6. Plan meals. This is on my aspiration list which is really bad. We eat at home but it’s a lot of same same same. And because we live within a block of several groceries including whole foods- I’m not organized with shopping and often need to run across the street for that one missing ingredient as I’m cooking dinner in the evening. Not grownup. We can all do better. 

7. Understand your paycheck. Go through each line and look up what it is. Just so you know. If you already did your 2018 taxes (we filed for an extension) go through each line there so you understand the tax pain points under the new tax law. You may make different choices if for example, something you used to deduct no longer is. 

8. Clean out your computer and create digital systems. I’ve been working on this and it is already making a difference in my general productivity not just in my business but with life in general. Also my computer runs better when it’s cleaned out. Pro-tip: if it is really bad- drag everything onto a hard drive- wipe it clean- and then only load on the stuff you miss. You might want a professional to supervise. 

9. On that note, create mail systems. I use sane later and I’ve been mostly happy with it to sort e-mail.There is still a lot of room for improvement because sometimes it is too aggressive and puts emails from unknown senders (like a potential client) into spam. Feel free to send me tips on organizing my email better. 

10. Follow brands you like on social to get discounts. For example: we were ordering in last week, I went to twitter, got a discount code, and instantly saved money

11. Read the news. Grownups know what is going on around them- politics is important because it is often the politicians decisions that impact our finances- hello new tax law. Be aware of what is up to date- and by the way that includes things like financially relevant supreme court decisions, and trade war developments. Those can directly impact everything from what things cost to buy, to the job market. 

12. Create a financial slush fund to support your friends charities and causes. Like it or not, as we grow up, we get asked to support friends and actually co-workers causes. Sometimes you even get ambushed when you least expect it- I remember being with my husband at a work related party hosted by someone senior to him at the firm. His 12 year old son hit us up for a donation to his boy scout troop. We had no choice but to give. Multiply that time losing count and that’s what you will start to get. And the truth is that example aside, you want to give. So start to budget for it. And it is more than ok to give $25 even $10. It’s the support that counts. 

13. Focus on being really nice to anyone you deal with in customer service. You can usually get better service and sometimes a better deal. You can even ask nicely if there are any coupons or discounts available. They often are and if you are that nice person, they usually choose to tell you.

14. Read the directions to things you buy and invest the time to really learn how to work them- not just muddle by. This is an aspiration for me. I often rush to use products without really learning to use them. Even my iPhone. I can do the basic stuff but I haven’t invested the time for example, to learn how to take the best photos, or shortcuts that I know are out there. Every time I go to an apple store I learn just from those slide shows they have showing little iPhone tips. So Note to Self- take the time to learn more about the things that I already own - like the iPhone- can do. 

15. Read more books. Books make you smarter. They just do. I try to segment 45 minutes before bed to devote to reading books.That often goes to books of authors that are going to be on the show. I also listen to books on audio when I’m walking around or taking public transportation. And as our regulars know- I use Blinkist to get the best summaries of books I have aspired to read but haven’t gotten to. Done is better than perfect and Blinkist gives me the intel I want to get from the books in the most efficient way. I do audio but you can also get it with just text- and on any device including Kindle. As some of you know, I love Blinkist so much I partnered with them- so if you want to check it out- please use my link for a free trial and to support the show. 

16. Install web extensions like honey , rakuten and ebates so you get cash back when you buy things

17. Sell things you aren’t using for money- and buy used things when they are just commodity items. And yes you can buy refurbished.  

18. Unsubscribe. In your email and also with almost everything you do- then add back in the things you miss. They will always take you back. and you sometimes get a better deal for requesting to cancel. 

19. Be smart about outsourcing. It may make sense to have someone do things for you if they can do it more efficiently and free up your time to do things that either make more money than that person costs you, or if you can afford it, frees you up to have more fun. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should, or that you are the best one for the job. Financial Grownup has a great editor- even though technically I know how to edit, Steve does a better job and it is not the best use of my time. Same goes for a lot of my social media. Ashley, my wonderful assistant, is more efficient at it than I am. What should you be outsourcing?

20. Look up from your screen and talk to someone IRL. You could even call someone instead of emailing, texting or messaging via social media. And focus on listening- something I’m definitely always trying to get better at. You never know what kind of business opportunity- or even friendship-  could come from just paying better attention to the world around us. 

Before we wrap- a quick note about the show. If you listened to the April Fools show- but not until the end. It was April Fools. The show is continuing. I do have a lot going on but this show is a labor of love, so I have no plans to stop. That said, my goal for the next couple hundred is to focus on expanding the show and yes- monetizing it. I have two people that help put the show together- Steve Stewart and Ashley Wall and they need to get paid, as do I. So- while the show will remain free- I do ask that you understand that we will be having sponsors on the show. Rather than shortchange you on the editorial content, the sponsors may at times  make the show a little longer. And that’s ok. I have an amazing lineup of guests for the summer that I can’t wait to bring to you- so thanks to all of you for being financial grownups with me. 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author and workplace strategist Lindsey Pollack shares a negotiation story with a big twist and a surprise ending. Plus how we often fail ourselves in negotiations by not using simple techniques when putting together deals, and how we can learn to up our game. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

So my money story goes back to before I wrote all those books and had the lovely credentials that you shared. About 10 years ago, I was speaking on college campuses to students about getting jobs and I really wanted to elevate my business to the next level. And so I wanted to connect with a large brand that would help me raise my image and get into the corporate market.

And through a connection of a connection of a connection, I ended up having the opportunity to pitch a major social network. And my pitch to them was that I wanted to run a series of webinars to campus career centers to teach them how to use this social network and get their students to use it for their career success. You can probably guess which network it was.

And I had no platform. I had no reputation. I had nothing to offer. And so what I did -

Let me just ask you, how had you even been connected to them?

I was so set on a couple of different companies wanting to work with that I asked everyone that I knew, "Hey, do you know anyone at this company?" And it took one full year, Bobbi and finally, a friend of a friend worked out in Silicon Valley and said, "I know someone there, I'm willing to make an introduction." So I asked until I finally got a yes.

So you had already invested quite a bit of time and energy in this and a lot of tenacity. Okay. So now you get your moment, keep going.

Okay. So I got my moment and I wrote up a huge fancy proposal that I was really proud of and I thought, "How am I going to price this?" They don't know me. I did not want to do it for free. And so what I did, was I came up with two tiers. I came up with the tier that was a very, very low investment for this company to pay me to start this webinar and run it.

And then I came up with a really, really high number and said, "If I can train 5000 people in two months. If 5000 people signed up to take this webinar in two months, you'll pay me this number." And they agreed to it because they basically had nothing to lose because the first number was really small.

Well I mean you've transferred all of the risk. You're taking on all the risk if the project were to not go well. They basically don't have much at stake. The payment from them would be so small. But of course, you are getting huge reward if it goes well which of course I know it does. But keep going.

It went well. I did everything humanly possible to get 5000 people to sign up for those webinars. And I do want to give credit that I had a very warm introduction. So I think that network and connection really helped. But I worked like crazy to get those people to sign up. I made the number. And the best part of the story is that I continued to work with that company for six more years. So I think by proving myself at the beginning, I was able to start the relationship off right and it truly was a game-changer for my business.

In Lindsey’s money lesson you will learn:

I think there are two lessons. One is to be really clear on what you want and if you get the introduction you want or if you get the opportunity you want, how are you going to turn it into something big. I think a lot of people say they want success or they want to write a book or they want to get their script produced. But once you have the opportunity in front of you, what are you going to do to make sure that you get a yes. And I can't say I knew at the time that this would be such a lesson but it was so empowering to know that I was willing to put everything on the table and work tenaciously, as you said, to get it. So know what you want and really think about how you can get the other side to say yes. Even if it means that you have to put some risk on the table.

You also mentioned the term a warm introduction. Can you talk more about how that came about, how that comes about, how people can get that more, and the importance of the kind introduction that you get? The nuance there.

Absolutely. And Bobbi, you are such a good practitioner of this generously making introductions for people you know and trust. I think that it's really easy to connect with someone today, whether it's on a social network, whether it's sending an email, finding somebody's phone number. That's easy. What's harder is standing out from the crowd. And I think the way to do that is when you have a person, a human being, who knows and trusts you who always knows and is trusted by the person you want to meet.

So I don't think it was just me and my proposal that got that company to say yes. I think it was the fact that someone who they trusted and vouched for me was able to make that introduction. You know we live in a world of a lot of connections but that true trusted connection, I think is more valuable than ever. That to me is a warm connection.

In Lindsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

I am laughing that my money story is about how great of a negotiator I am because it took me so long to learn how to improve my negotiation skills and my best negotiation tip is silence.

So why? We let there be a moment of silence there so everyone could think about that.

Silence is really uncomfortable. And I'm so glad you let that moment linger because it shows how much anyone wants to desperately make that silence go away. And so what I used to do, when I first started out as a speaker or as an author, was say something like, "Bobbi, the price of my speech is $1000." And if there was a nanosecond of silence, I would say, "But if you only want to pay 750 that's okay." Because I was so uncomfortable with the silence.

So letting a number sit there. Asking somebody, even if you're on the phone with your mobile phone provider saying, "Is that the best you can do? Can you offer me a different rate?" We jump in too quickly and say, "Or not, that's okay. Forget it." Letting that silence linger is so hard and has been a huge challenge for me but it is my best money tip to not talk myself down or lose an opportunity to get a better price because I'm not willing to sit with silence.

Can you recall any time that was super effective using that technique? Can you give us an example?

Oh, everyday when I'm negotiating for my business. As I've gotten more successful as a speaker, I've raised my prices. And probably the hardest one to do is to raise a price on an existing valued client. But over time, it's really a necessity to grow your business.

I had to say to someone just the other day, "I've raised my prices by 15%. I know that we've always been at X number. The new number is this." And I so wanted to say, "But if you don't want to pay that's okay." Or, "I know that might be challenging." But I just said it, I let it sit there and the person said, "Okay."

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip number one: Lindsey talked about warm introductions and I could not agree more. But how do you get started? Well the most important thing is to reach out and ask people in your industry or even just friends and family and just casual conversation to tell you more about what they're working on, what their goals are, and lead into how you might be able to help them. Don't be overly aggressive. But be creative. Are there things that you could do? And then follow up. And this is the most important thing. Don't ask them for anything in return.

The crazy thing that I have found is that the people that have come forward on my behalf and made introductions for me, aren't always the ones that I have helped. It's not always linear. In fact, it rarely is. Very often the people helping me are people that aren't necessarily in my closest circles. They're people that I've met through my life that I've stayed in touch with. Maybe a quick email every six months, a quick coffee date once or twice a year. That kind of thing. And just being in touch with them and being considerate of what they're going through and what their needs are, maybe they'll think of you when an opportunity that's appropriate for you comes about. Or maybe they'll be there for you if you want an introduction to someone that they know. Be patient. If you give, you will receive.

Financial Grownup Tip number two: Lindsey's book is so full of great tips for us. She shared a couple, but I wanted to give a little bit more. So here are some other tips from Lindsey.

First of all, if you can work up the courage and feel comfortable and if you don't then get comfortable, do this, work up to this. Ask your boss to CC you on emails even when you don't need to be directly involved. It's going to give you insights into things that are going on in your company beyond your immediate duties, give you a wider perspective.

Lindsey also suggests sending video emails on occasion instead of writing out what you want to say. Just film a quick video and attach it to an email. It can be very effective.

One more final tip: Remix your meetings. Just try sitting in different seats than you usually do and that could actually change the group dynamic and maybe the group think. Come up with some different ideas or just give you a little more energy in your day.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Check out Lindsey's website - www.LindseyPollak.com

• Lindsey's new book The Remix

Follow Lindsey!

• Instagram - @LindseyPollak

• Facebook - @LindseyPollakAuthor

• Twitter - @LindseyPollak

• LinkedIn - @LindseyPollak

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Journalist Veronica Dagher lost her dad as a young child and grew up watching her mom learn how to manage the family’s business and money. That experience inspired her to not only focus on her own finances, but to build a career around teaching women financial independence.

In Veronica's money story you will learn:

• How the loss of her dad shaped her view of finances and forced her to learn about money management at an early age.

• The financial grownup lesson that Veronica learned from her mother at a young age that has stuck with her

• Learning how to handle your finances now is essential so you are ready and prepared if something tragic happens in your life

In Veronica’s money lesson you will learn:

• How becoming financially literate can really help out your future self

• The reasons Veronica is so passionate about women being financially savvy

In Veronica's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she feels that having a positive money mantra that you tell yourself daily is so important

In My Take you will learn:

• The benefits of askng your parents about their money experiences

• How to leverage tough money experiences to make an impact that helps others.

Episode Links:

• Secrets of Wealthy Women podcast

• I Stack Benjamins

Check out Veronica’s stories in The Wall Street Journal

Follow Veronica!

• Instagram - @veronicadagher

• LinkedIn - @veronicadagher

• Twitter - @veronicadagher
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Veronica Dagher:
I would see her crying or upset or frustrated, and just wondering what was going on. I did hear rumblings of "So-and-so tried to, you know, con me into something." Or I would hear little bits and pieces of that once in a while, or some relative would tell me and, not really fully understanding, just knowing that things at times got nasty.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup," with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup," and, you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, financial grownups. The voice you just heard was that of a friend of mine getting a lot of attention recently, because she co-created and hosts one of the hottest podcasts, not just in the business space, but among podcasts overall. It is called "Secrets of Wealthy Women," and, as she will share with us, it really all began with her mom. Welcome to all and, to our newest listeners, thank you for checking out the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
We try to keep the episodes short, but if you have more time, maybe you're commuting, at about 15 minutes each, the episodes are perfect to listen to a few of them, back-to-back, to fit your schedule.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Veronica. She is an award-winning senior wealth management reporter for the Wall Street Journal. She is also, as I mentioned, the co-creator, host, and co-producer of the top-rated Wall Street Journal's "Secrets of Wealthy Women" podcast. She interviews some of the most well-known women in the world. People like like Gloria Steinem, Bobbi Brown, and Rebecca Minkoff. She also co-produces and hosts videos for wsj.com and is a regular guest on the Fox Business Network and other national media, where she speaks about women, personal finance, markets, the economy, just about anything in the news.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you can tell, I am a huge fan of Veronica's, and I know, if you aren't already, you soon will be, too. Here is Veronica Dagher.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Veronica Dagher. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Veronica Dagher:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have to first of all thank you because I had the honor of being a guest on your super-popular podcast, "Secrets of Wealthy Women," which you do through your job at the Wall Street Journal. And, just to give everyone a sense of how big this is, this is almost in the top 100 of all podcasts in the entire podcasting universe at this point. It's definitely in the top, I don't know, five or six business podcasts. Your guests include people like Bobbi Brown, Gloria Steinem, Bethany Frankel, a favorite of mine. And, of course, you had a special podcast around New Year's with myself, Jean Chatzky from The Today Show, Farnoush Cherobi from Oprah Magazine and her podcast, "So Money." I should say, Jean Chatzky also has a podcast called "Her Money."

Bobbi Rebell:
And we had Sharon Epperson from CNBC. We had Deirdre Bolton. And you, leading the pack, so congratulations on all of it.

Veronica Dagher:
Thank you so much. It was so great to have you on the show. I loved your episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you. And you were the co-creator of it. How did you come up with it?

Veronica Dagher:
Well, we came up with it, because we knows there's enormous wealth transfer going on in the United States, with an estimated 33 trillion dollar wealth transfer happening, and women stand to control a lion's share of that money. And I looked around the marketplace, and I didn't see a whole lot of products or content, so to speak, that spoke to women in an inspirational, relatable way. So we figured, "Hey, let's do a podcast that we can connect with women by shining the light on some very famous women and what they've done to advance their own careers and make smart decisions about their money."

Veronica Dagher:
And so that's why we said, "Let's really feature women who can serve as aspirational role models for women, and, at the same time, teach them a little bit more about advancing their careers and improving their financial health."

Bobbi Rebell:
You are such a role model. A lot of your success comes from early experiences in life, and the strength that you acquired from them, and some tough times. And you're gonna share a very special money story that has to do with a loss early in your life and how that shaped your view of the world and the way that you live your life.

Veronica Dagher:
That's right. When I was 11 years old, my dad died suddenly and left my mom a widow. She was in her 40s at the time, which is younger than the average widowhood in the United States, which I think is about 59, so she was in her 40s at the time, left with an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old, my brother being the 13-year-old. And she did not understand where our accounts were. She didn't understand how to write a check. She didn't know anything about the finances of the family at all.

Veronica Dagher:
And, when my dad died, she was left scrambling. He had businesses. He had different investments. And she didn't understand any of that, and so that meant, at the worst possible time in her life, she had to learn about money and investing, learn about personal finance. And so I have these memories of her sitting at the kitchen table with some of her friends and some of my aunts, them trying to teach her, "Okay, this is how you write a check. Let's open these account statements. Let's see where these different accounts are. Let's try to understand what's happening here. Here's what you have to do in terms of deal with the business now that he's gone. Here's what you have to do with some of the accounts and the money that he was owed as a business person."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So you were in it together. What was his business?

Veronica Dagher:
He was a lawyer, but he had his own law firm, and then he had several real estate holdings and some real estate interests and, also, just some other consulting type work. And so he had a lot of different tentacles to what he, day in and day out. And he had a staff and all these sorts of things as well. And so it was a lot to manage and a lot to understand, not to mention the family's personal finances and understanding the different accounts and other assets he had acquired through those years.

Veronica Dagher:
And my mom really didn't know that much about any of it, and so she had to learn, like I said, at the worst possible time, and it was a really steep, difficult learning curve for her. And there were times when financial advisors who, some of them meant well, but then some of 'em were pretty shady, try to approach her and try to get her to invest in things that were completely inappropriate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like what? Were you aware of it at this time? Did she share with you guys what was going on, or were you kept out of it?

Veronica Dagher:
Yeah, slightly. I think a lot of it's stuff I heard, after the fact, when I was a little bit older. But I would see her crying or upset or frustrated, and just wondering what was going on. I did hear rumblings of "So-and-so tried to, you know, con me into something." Or I would hear little bits and pieces of that once in a while, or some relative would tell me and, not really fully understanding, just knowing that things at times got nasty.

Veronica Dagher:
And understanding that, sometimes, money brings out the best in people, but also the absolute worst in people as well, and that you need to be careful with who you trust and who you give your money to. Luckily, my mom had enough sense to listen to her gut instinct, even though she wasn't exactly an investing pro at the time. She had enough sense to understand who was trustworthy, who's not trustworthy. She got that part of it. And so, luckily, she didn't make any bad investments and, you know, it's not exactly always how you wanna be spending your time, but, to her credit, she learned and she would ... Even when I was a teenager, she started telling me, 'cause she was getting more savvy as each year went on. And she said, "You need to be financially savvy. You need to learn this stuff, 'cause I never want you to be in the position that I'm in."

Veronica Dagher:
And she would almost lecture me, like, "You have to be a financially independent woman. You must. You can't rely on anyone. You have to understand all this stuff." And I was like, "Oh, why is she so adamant about this?" Even though I knew the history, I felt like, "Oh, things will work out." And she was like, "No, you always need to know where everything is. You need to understand how to write that check." And I think I ... I forget how old I was when I got my first checks. I wanna say, maybe when I went to college. But she sat down with me and showed me how to write a check. She sat down with me and emphasized, "You always pay your credit card bills on time. If you don't, and if you go over a certain amount, I'm not gonna bail you out. You need to be able to pay your bill on your own. I'm not a bank. This is your responsibility."

Veronica Dagher:
She was very much focused on making me a financial grownup, as you would appreciate. And she said, when I got my first job out of college, too, she said, "You max out your 401(k). You open up that 401(k), and you contribute as much as you possibly can. You just start doing that at 21 or 22, however old you are when you get your first job."

Veronica Dagher:
And I remember thinking, "Oh, no, it's so young." And she's like, "No, you have to do it." And I listened. I said, "Okay, I'll do it." And I didn't really ... I thought everybody was doing it. And it's only after the fact that I realized not everybody got that message, unfortunately, but, luckily, she gave that message to me, and that helped me.

Bobbi Rebell:
She was a great role model.

Veronica Dagher:
Really.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Veronica Dagher:
I think women should really try to become financially independent. Women themselves. And take ownership of their finances, and it doesn't have to be so overwhelming. But the point is not to have to learn at the worst possible time whether that's your divorce or whether you become a widow or some other situation. Maybe you don't even get married. You can't wait around for someone else to do it for you. So start learning. Take it, piece by piece. So maybe it's 10 minutes every week you spend learning about finance. You read an article. You read a chapter of a book. You join a group that talks about money and investing.

Veronica Dagher:
You take one small step towards becoming more financially savvy, so that way you are in control of what you own and what you owe and what you're invested in, and you can become more independent as time goes on. Now, even if you don't like it, that's okay. You don't have to love everything you do. You have to brush your teeth. You may not love brushing your teeth, but it helps you feel more secure, and I think, ultimately, many women, just from some of the studies that are out there, say their biggest fear is becoming a bag lady.

Veronica Dagher:
I understand, but one way to alleviate the possibility of that happening is to take a more active role in your finances. So think about your future self. Do this for her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such great advice. Also great advice is your everyday money tip, which we talked about before we started taping. And I'm still thinking about mine. But share with us your everyday money tip, Veronica.

Veronica Dagher:
I like the idea of having a positive money mantra, however you say it. But having a positive message you say to yourself day in, day out. So, for example, a message might be, "I am good with my money." And the reason you wanna say a positive message to yourself regularly is, there's a good chance that maybe something from your childhood has told you a negative message about yourself, and that may or may not be true.

Veronica Dagher:
And so, if you wanna create a positive, more abundant future reality, I think it's very important to have a positive mantra that you can reframe your view of yourself and your view of money. Because if you keep saying the negative, it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if you say the positive, I think you have a much better chance of achieving the financial abundance and success that you really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is yours?

Veronica Dagher:
Mine is actually, "I am good with money, and I respect cash."

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Alright, I'm gonna give mine some thought. Before we wrap up, you have an e-book coming out. Tell us.

Veronica Dagher:
Yes. I'm super excited. We are doing an e-book based on the "Secrets of Wealthy Women" podcast here at the Wall Street Journal. And so we're profiling 20 women we've had on the podcast, talking about some of the inspirational stories that they have shared with us and giving some money and career tips, and that is slated to come out this March in e-book form on wsj.com.

Veronica Dagher:
So we're super excited about that and, hopefully, we'll have a lot more to share about that in the coming weeks, but I'm busy writing it, and I'm super excited that it's happening.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. I can't wait. Give us all your social channels and where people can find you besides wsj.com, which is where the e-book will be.

Veronica Dagher:
Yes. Thank you. So, on Instagram and Twitter, @veronicadagher, and on LinkedIn. I'm there as well, if you wanna contact me there. But Instagram and Twitter are the best places to get me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Veronica.

Veronica Dagher:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love all those stories. I'm still thinking about what my money mantra is going to be. Maybe everyone can share with me on social what you're thinking might be yours, at least maybe for 2019. Maybe we can all change them each year to kinda keep it fresh, but I'm thinking hard. I'll get back to you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to our tips.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Talk to your parents about their money experiences. I was really touched by how Veronica's mom protected her from knowing everything going on when she was just too young to know everything. She obviously knew some things.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I was always so impressed that the mother-daughter relationship evolved, and her mom clearly communicated more as Veronica grew up about their experiences coping with the financial struggles connected to losing Veronica's dad at such a young age.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: If you are looking to make a meaningful impact in some aspect of your life, look to the things that shaped who you are as a financial grownup, as Veronica has done with "Secrets of Wealthy Women." Veronica not only gained strength from her experiences, after losing her father, who was the breadwinner, she has now taken that to create something that will have a much broader impact.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you have not, please do subscribe, and, of course, tell a friend. I wanna hear what has inspired your interest in learning about money. Follow me, and please DM me your thoughts on Instagram, @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, @bobbirebell, and you can always email at hello@financialgrownup.com. And check out my new show with Stacking Benjamin's Joe Saul-Sehy. It is called "Money in the Morning." It's in all the usual podcast places, and we tape live on Facebook Live. Go to "I Stack Benjamins" on Facebook, and you can set up notifications for when we tape. We take live comments, so you can be part of the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we will leave a link to that in the show notes, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone, check out "Secrets of Wealthy Women," if you have not already. Big thanks to the fabulous Veronica Dagher for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we talk about the 3 money tips for living abroad. #LivingAbroadForAYear #LivingAbroadTips

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her new partnership with the podcasting legend,  shares the behind the scenes intel on how it all happened, plus Joe gets honest about how his plastic shoe habit almost derailed his financial career. 

 

In Joe’s money story you will learn:

-Joe’s penny pinching philosophy- and how it backfired

-The impact of getting a gig on local tv

-Joe’s off-base take on how to develop trust in clients

 

In Joe’s lesson you will learn:

-The true cost of plastic shoes

-Why your co-workers may not tell you the truth

-How to avoid some of Joe’s mistakes

-How Joe invested in fixing his image problem, and increased his wealth

-Ways to get feedback on not just your career but also other aspects of your life

 

In Joe’s money tip you will learn:

-How to delegate one person to be the lead family financial manager

-What Joe refers to as ‘fantasyland'

-The one thing Joe does that avoids fighting about money in his family

-How to spot mistakes in your bills

 

In my take you will learn:

-The value of investing in your personal appearance

-What Kevin O’Leary had to say about investing in quality clothing and accessories

-How I have been burned by low quality purchases as fast fashion stores

-Why renting clothing can be a viable option that may work for your budget

-The importance of constantly upgrading your skills through education including online courses. 

 

Episode links:

Mint

Clarity Money

Moneylion

Udemy

Rent the Runway

 

Follow Joe Saul-Sehy!

 

Joe’s course How to legally cheat on your taxes

Joe’s money in the mornings show on facebook

Joe’s Facebook group

 

Money in the Morning podcast

Stacking Benjamins podcast

 

Twitter: @averagejoemoney

Facebook: Facebook.com/stackingbenjamins

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. This episode is all about investing in yourself. Whether it comes to your wardrobe or your education as you hear and will hear more from our guest Joe Saul-Sehy is the host of the crazy popular award winning Stacking Benjamins podcast. I don't have time to list all of the awards it has won but they include Best Business Podcast from the Academy of Podcasters, and Best Finance Podcast by Kiplinger. They also win a lot of these Plutus Awards among others.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're going to really like Joe's story. If you're a good dresser you're going to feel validated for spending all that time, effort and money. If you're not such a good dresser, I hope you're going to get motivated. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe Saul-Sehy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I can't believe I made it here. I must be a grownup if I made it here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You must, and you're up early these days. We're going to talk more about it later, but congratulations on the launch of Money In The Morning. It's awesome, and I love the music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you. We picked it out just for you Bobbi. That's our whole thing, if we can win with Bobbi we win with everybody, so there we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's happy music.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is happy music, and I need happy music with coffee in the morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've evolved a lot in your grownup life, but there was a time, and we're leading into your money story here Joe, when you were a bit of a cheapskate. It wasn't just affecting you, it was really affecting your whole universe. Do tell.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I was a financial planner for 16 years. During that time I was teaching people how to pinch pennies and cut corners where they could. I thought, "You know, I really should take my own advice." I learned a valuable lesson here because people come to see you and they expect a certain type of person, but at the time I didn't think about that. I thought, "You know what? I'm in my office all day. I'm never out of my office." When I am, I started doing a television gig in Detroit at WXYZ Channel Seven, go Detroit. Even when I did that, people didn't see my shoes. So I went from really nice shoes-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well people that were watching you on camera did not see your shoes.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
People watching me on television didn't see my shoes. People that I interfaced with on a daily basis, they did, and my clients did. So I went from these really nice shoes that I had to these plastic shoes. You know, the shoes that buy at-

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know about plastic shoes Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Of course you don't. Like a Payless shoes. I would go there and I'd find these shoes that looked nice, but they looked like they were polished but they really were just plastic-y. For about a year, I for those. I dumbed down my suits, I wore cheaper ties. I thought, "People trust me, they like me. I don't need to spend a lot of money on this stuff." And then I realized that everything that I was doing was wrong one day, when I finally bought some new shoes and I went to my mentor's office, and the very first thing he said Bobbi, I walk in he said, "It's about time you got rid of those cheap shoes."

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I said, "What are you talking about? I've had those for a year. How come you didn't tell me?" He goes, "Well, I just thought you'd find out sooner or later by yourself." So I realized then that everyone notices. Then when I hired a firm to help me look better on TV, because I also-

Bobbi Rebell:
You hired someone.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're really investing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Yes, because I realized from the shoes, I realized I kind of have to invest in my career, and then I realized how bad everything was. The very first thing that the firm said that I hired, they said, "Well, we need to give you a big boy haircut." Because I was still wearing this haircut that I had from college, this is back when I had hair. They changed my look to be a more sophisticated haircut, to be shorter, to be more conservative, to look the part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They went with me shopping for clothes to show me how I could still spend less money on clothes, but I had to dress much more smart. I had to be trust ... and it's funny how that changed my entire career. My career went from growing at an okay rate, to all the sudden growing by leaps and bounds because I looked the part. I don't know about you Bobbi, I don't trust people who look too good, people that are dressed to the nines. For whatever reason I don't trust them, but that doesn't give you an excuse to not dress appropriately, and I guess even to widen it, to take responsibility for your career. We have to take responsibility for this thing that we call a career and make it our own?

Bobbi Rebell:
Expending on that, what is the lesson for our listeners from the story?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I think the big lesson is don't wait for somebody else to give you this feedback about your career. Look in the mirror, and not just in the physical aspects like I was, but look in the mirror when it comes to your relationships with your family, with your relationship with money, with your relationship with your job. It's far easier, everybody wants to pinch pennies, it's far easier to go make a lot more money that it is to pinch pennies. It's funny, we might be able to save 50 cents or a dollar, but we could make $100 this week if we just looked outside ourself and went looking. I mean, there are so many job opportunities online, there are so many things to do. Look in the mirror and take responsibility for yourself was something that I learned that day that I try to teach other people now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And grow the top line.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Grow the top line, amen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a money tip, something personal that you and your family do that people can maybe make their own and do right away.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I just said, focus on the top line Bobbi, but I also look at the bottom line. Because if we can stretch the difference between the two of those, then that's where we experience growth. In a lot of families what I noticed is that one person in the family, like you have a budgeting partner, a spouse, a significant other, one person usually knows where every dollar is, every dime is. The other person's in a place I refer to as fantasy land. They think they know, they have this general feeling, but they also know the other person's taking care of it.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's when fights begin. That's when bad things happen in a relationship, it's because the person in fantasy land all the sudden realizes the fantasy doesn't look the way they thought that it should have, so there ends up being friction. To avoid friction, something that Cheryl my spouse, and I implemented and that I like to teach people how to do, is just have a quick weekly meeting. Maybe 15 minutes over breakfast, or I prefer over wine.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the evening, not wine at breakfast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's wine, iHop, you're probably [crosstalk 00:07:10]

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I'm not judging but you know.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
That's right, good for somebody but maybe not me. The thing I like about this weekly meeting though is it's quick, it's actually fun. We look through ... I use an app called Clarity Money but you can Mint, you can use MoneyLion. There's lots of apps out there. You could even just use a spreadsheet or look through, go to your bank website and take a look at what expenses you had. It's very easy, here's the way we do it. We look through all the upcoming expenses. What are we going to spend money on in the next week? We talk through that. Then the second thing we do is we look at the previous week's expenses and we see if there were any mistakes on any of our bills. What's funny is, we find so many mistakes. It's horrifying how many-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they're never in your favor.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
They never ever ... It's amazing that none of them ... Yeah, isn't that shocking. Yeah, business is always taking from me. And then also look for recurring expenses that you don't need anymore. I found just a couple weeks ago that there's been a recurring meeting, because we miss meetings from time to time and I must have missed it the last two years in a row. There's a Norton subscription that I've had for the last two years that I don't have hooked up to anything. That's a $100 a year for this subscription. It was really ... Luckily I caught it. I was able to get back this year, I can't go back and get the year before that, but have that money refunded to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, which also is cool. But the best thing is, Cheryl and I now go through the week and we know where the dollars are going to be spent. If things change we've got this open line of communication. I've got to tell you, it's so fun. The weekly meeting is so fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good. And you know what's really fun? Is spending less on your taxes. I have a CFP, but I have to tell you, especially because I got the CFP before the new tax law was passed. I find it a little bit overwhelming, but you have out that can help a little bit.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. Thanks for mentioning this, because we were going to call this, Bobbi, we were going to call it Understanding The Tax Form, but that sounds so boring. It just sounds so-

Bobbi Rebell:
I would want that. I would do that one, but maybe not other people.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
[crosstalk 00:09:10] Yeah, you and I are money nerds so that's great. But here's what somebody did with me, this is the genesis of the course. I thought taxes were kind of mystical and I would ask people, "Can I write this off? Is this something that maybe I can take advantage of? Is this taxable? Is this not taxable? How does it all work?" Somebody sat down with me and walk through the 1040 and how the 1040 works, and then the itemized deductions page and how that works.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Once I knew that, and what's cool is it's only three pages, once we walked through that I totally then could see what I could write off, what I couldn't write off, where my opportunities might be, how my retirement plan fit into the big picture, what the downsides might be in the future, what tax problems I might have in the future. We call the course How To Legally Cheat On Your Taxes, and it is a lot of fun. It's a do at your own pace course. It teaches you how taxes work. You can do two things. Number one, put Humpty Dumpty together, like right now during tax season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, it's coming.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Put things together- Yeah, put things together in a way that helps. But that's not where the magic is. I think the real magic is doing things through the year so that when you're trying to put Humpty Dumpty together next year, you're able to do that much, much better because you knew how taxes worked going in. I think that the powerful thing. That's the reason we created it, was to try to get people that same leg up that I got.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Where can people find that? And where can people find you? I know Facebook in the morning, it's fascinating people. You can him do Money In The Mornings on Facebook and you can see how everything is made.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's so-

Bobbi Rebell:
Including the bloopers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. I was going to say, it's so uncomfortable because ... and I did it live on Facebook to try to force myself to do ... We talked earlier about taking responsibility for your career. One thing I do, I'm a natural stutterer, and do try to get around stuttering-

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes, and to make myself more natural on camera and try to get used to that. I started doing these daily Facebook Lives and say, "You know what, we're going to do this show without a net." So Money In The Morning is without a net, five days a week, wherever you're listening to this show. We just do two quick headlines. It's live, and man sometimes bad stuff happens. Which I think some people listen to it just to hear the car wreck.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's the best part.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Right, right. Just to hear some of the bad stuff that sometimes happens, because you can't take it back if it's live.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. All right, so where can people find you and the course and everything?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah, yeah. That's wherever you listen to this podcast, is where you can find Money In The Morning or Stacking Benjamins, our main show. The course is at learn.stackingbenjamins.com, that course, and we have a couple others, Save 50% Of Your Income and a quick hit course on your benefits package, so when you are going through open enrollment every year. Just a very quick, like, "What do I need to remember while I'm doing my open enrollment?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Where can people find you social media before we go?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I am @AverageJoeMoney on Twitter, stop by and say hi. On Facebook it's facebook.com/istackbenjamins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, thank you so much.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thanks Bobbi. This was so fun. I'm so happy that I'm finally a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are. Congratulations Joe. Here is my take on what Joe had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one, wear quality clothing. This is something that previous guests Kevin O'Leary touched on as well with respect especially to his mother. Not only is it important to look your best in business, but you often come out financially ahead.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get tempted like everyone by the fast fashion places. I always get burned. I buy a sweater for 20 bucks, it looks identical to the one for 200 in the department store, so I think I'm really smart. But then, after a couple of wearings, it's trash. I'm going to let you guys in on an open secret. Notice that I said wear quality clothing. I did not say buy. If you come see me speak, I am often wearing a very expensive designer dress that I don't own. It's rented. The designer handbag I'm carrying, you got it, probably rented. That way I get the benefits of always showing up in a well made dress without having to constantly invest in buying expensive clothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, always keep learning. Joe talked about education, so whatever interests you or will further your career, get better at it. If you work for a big company, always find out what they will pay for. My first employer, CNBC, paid for my CFP classes. There are also incredible online resources from LinkedIn to Udemy, even Investopedia has great online classes. In fact many top universities are putting their classes online and you can often audit them for free. Make yourself smarter, it will probably pay off for you financially, but you'll also probably enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed and shared the podcast. It's amazing. Please, follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram. Go to my website, sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on everything going on with the show. I hope you enjoyed Joe's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by [Steve Stuart 00:14:28] and is a BRK Media production.

Attorney Leslie Tayne shares her unique take on why we should view debt as a good thing, along with candid details on why she ended an engagement over money issues

In Leslie's money story you will learn:

• What kinds of things are red flags financially when dating someone

• The different approach she took with debt management

• What a "Bird and Fish issue" is and why it's important to steer clear of this kind of relationship financially
  

In Leslie’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important not to rely on someone else to take care of your money

In Leslie's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to put a positive spin on your debt

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to ask uncomfortable questions when getting serious with someone

• What the difference is between secrets vs baggage when it comes to money

Episode Links-

Leslie's book Life & Debt: A Fresh Approach to Achieving Financial Wellness

Check out Leslie's website - https://attorney-newyork.com/

Follow Leslie!

• Instagram - @taynelawgroup

• LinkedIn

• Twitter - @lesliehtayneesq / @taynelawgroup

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So the clip that you heard at the top was a big moment for me. I had never really thought of debt as something that was actually a symbol of things that that debt had allowed you to achieve. To help you get to your goals. And we don't always think of debt that way. It's a mindset and we're gonna come back to that. First, welcome to everyone. Especially to our new listeners. Let me tell you a little bit about the show. We interview high achievers that share personal stories about money that had an impact on their lives. We also give you every day money tips that you can put to work right away. In this case, as I mentioned, we're gonna be learning how to change our debt mindset. Now, the fantastic guest for this episode is Leslie Tayne. She is the author of Life and Debt. Also an attorney. And before we get to that every day money tip, she gets very real in her money story about a broken engagement. And you're also gonna hear some information about my own break up that was a little bit scary for me to talk about. My own broken marriage. We actually went through with the engagement. Did get married. And things did not work out. And a lot had to do with our different money mindsets. Here we go. With Leslie Tayne.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Leslie Tayne. You're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the Podcast.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much for having me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have you on for a number of reasons. One of which is you know a lot about a lot of financial things. You are the author of Life and Debt. A fresh approach to achieving financial wellness. Congratulations on the book.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me a little bit about it.

Leslie Tayne:
I don't think, from my perspective, that it's realistic to really be out of debt. I think that it's a different mindset when it comes to debt resolution, which is learning to love your debt and accept it. So I took this totally different approach about debt management, debt resolution. Whatever concept you want to call it. But I took a totally different approach which is to learn to love your debt, accept it, know that it's part of your life, and find really good strategic ways to manage it so it works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. Because it's not always realistic to just say I'm not gonna have it. We have to live in the real world. And part of living in the real world is being realistic about relationships, which is hard to do when we're caught up in things like engagements and all that goes with it. And I know I had a short marriage in my 20s, which broke up for a number of reasons. But money, as is the case in many marriages, our different money values was a factor. And that was also a factor in a big decision that you made.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes, it was. I actually was also engaged to somebody. And I ended the engagement due to what I'm gonna call bird and fish issues related to finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. That's a good tease. What does that mean?

Leslie Tayne:
So bird and fish issues have to do with my conceptualization of the differences between people's ideas of money. For example, if you're a spender and your significant other is a saver and you really like to spend and don't think about it and your significant other is a saver, you have bird and fish issues. So obviously a bird can't live in the water and a fish doesn't live in a tree. So when you have significant bird and fish issues from a financial perspective, your relationship, unless you can really manage it, is not likely to succeed in that particular area.

Leslie Tayne:
So with my significant other at the time, my fiancé, we just did not see ... And he was a great guy. It wasn't the person. It really had to do with the fact that from a financial perspective, he saw things very differently than I did. And it wasn't something that I felt would make a successful long-term relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the red flags?

Leslie Tayne:
I needed to get a new car. And I'm not sure what's on my credit. And then that starts the red flag stuff for me. The I'm not sure what's on-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ask his credit score?

Leslie Tayne:
I told him that I thought it was in his best interest to pull his credit and take a look at it and make sure that there was nothing on there that he wasn't aware of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you find out what the number was?

Leslie Tayne:
Yeah. I did see his credit later on in the relationship. The ultimate issue was about how he managed his money. Meaning he made money and he told me basically what he was earning, and his job, and his prospect for more money because another big discussion always was around Christmas time or the end of the year bonuses. So the question was, he would always say, "I wonder what I'm gonna get. Is it gonna be like it was last year? And I have to put that money away for taxes. And I need to do this or that with it." So he was volunteering that information to me and then I would follow up with questions based on his volunteering that. And there was a little bit of recklessness there and-

Bobbi Rebell:
What's an example of that?

Leslie Tayne:
Spending without thinking. Like having 100 pairs of jeans. Just continuing to buy without thinking. And then saying, "Oh, I have to pay off my ..." Things that ... These are red flags to me. Excessive spending. Not budgeting. Not being sure how you're gonna make it through the year if you're on salary plus commission. Those are red flags and problems to me. That's a money management issue. It became problematic when I would hear things like, "I don't think I can afford that." Well, you should know what you should be able to afford or not be able to afford. Or, "How could I just say no to my kids?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were examples of that happening?

Leslie Tayne:
Vacations. So if I wanted to go on vacation and say I have a different budget than he has or at least I'm aware of my budget than he had. I want to go on vacation and this is what I would like to stay. Then I don't know if I can do that. And I would say, "Well, why would you have a problem doing it based on the things that you told me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
In other words, based on his income, he should be able to afford it, but where was the money going I guess is what you were wondering.

Leslie Tayne:
Correct. Correct. And it wasn't my place. I didn't feel comfortable that it was my place to micromanage it. Again, I don't want to be in a position in relationships and I don't recommend being in a position where you are micromanaging somebody else's inability to manage their own money. Going into a relationship as adults, each one of you should be managing your money effectively and being aware of your finances, being aware of your debt, having some sort of plan. It doesn't have to be a written dissertation of exactly how to pay it off. But an idea, not when I get some money I'm gonna do this. Or I'll have some money soon. There was a dishonesty piece about not telling me what was going on with the finances and with his finances. There came a point when we were engaged when I said, "I'm not just a girlfriend now. We're engaged and we're talking about a long-term future. So I feel like I have a right to understand or have a good understanding of what your finances are." And when there was a hesitation about giving me that information, I knew at that point that I would not be able to proceed.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your advice to our listeners?

Leslie Tayne:
My best advice is that you may love this person. You may find so many wonderful qualities about them. They may be a great parent. A loving human being. But when you go into a situation where there's any level of dishonesty, that doesn't get better. That gets worse. So those are red flags. Be brave and strong. It's not easy to break off a relationship for a million different reasons. But take your time. Go slow. If you're the one with the money or you're the one with the better credit, always keep it separate and really create a line in the sand-

Bobbi Rebell:
Leslie, tell us your every day money tip. It has to do with debt, but appreciation. And not appreciation in the idea of interest appreciating. A better kind of appreciation.

Leslie Tayne:
I am a big believer in saying thank you to your debt because you gain something from that. So let's say you had student loan debt. I'm thankful for my student loan debt because it got me my career and my law degree. So I know that sounds like a challenging statement to make. But once you change your attitude and you become thankful for the debts that you have, you'd be surprised how that impacts the totality of resolving your own finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because many times, they did help you achieve something. Whether it's having a home, having a law degree, whatever it may be.

Leslie Tayne:
Yes. You're correct. All of the debt that you have helps you achieve something. You have a car, it takes you places. You have a home, you have a roof over your head. You have food that you bought maybe on credit. You have student loans from an education that you got. It's not that you didn't get something for nothing. You exchanged the debt for something that may not be tangible. But it's something that is useful in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So, Leslie, tell us a little bit more before we wrap up about your practice because it is concentrated on debt. And where people can find you and learn more about you.

Leslie Tayne:
Sure. So I'm an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of New York. And I have a practice called [inaudible 00:09:45] Law Group. We have four offices in New York. But we do help clients outside of New York as well. And we're gonna be opening offices soon in South Florida.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you. I have a book called Life and Debt. And all of that can be found online. So you can Google me at Leslie Tayne. T-A-Y-N-E. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, all under that. Or LifeandDebtBook.com. TayneLaw.com. T-A-Y-N-E-L-A-W.com. And certainly, again, you can always Google my name, Leslie Tayne, and you'll find me all over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Leslie for sharing such a candid and brave, frankly, brave story. We appreciate it.

Leslie Tayne:
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to my take on what Leslie had to say, I just want everyone to know Leslie is happily remarried, as am I. And in both cases, our husbands are on board when it comes to our money mindsets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. This one's a little bit hard though, actually. You have to ask really uncomfortable questions if you are going to get serious with someone. I got engaged to my ex-husband. The one that I talked about at the beginning of the interview with Leslie. I didn't know his income. I didn't feel comfortable asking. Seriously. For real. But yet, I was willing to be financial partners with him. Without having that information. That is a don't. We'll leave it at that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Secrets versus baggage. They are very different. Here's the deal, guys. Leslie's problem with her ex-fiancé was not only that they had different money values because they definitely did. It was the secrets though. It was the lack of honesty. Withholding information. That is not the same as having baggage. AKA having lived a life. Things happen. You might have a student loan or even credit card debt. We're all human. Life is messy. Good luck finding someone who is perfect financially. Pretty much any money problem though can be solved if you work together and are honest with each other. Emphasis on honest. So don't confuse life's normal messiness with the stuff that matters. And that is communication and working through financial situations together. No one's perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, so grateful to Leslie Tayne. She got candid, and real, and raw. And we're so much better for it. So thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production

Big cities have a lot to offer- but can be expensive. Co-host Grant Sabatier, creator of Millennnial Money and author of the new book “Financial Freedom. A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” recently moved to New York City despite the costs. He shares his three biggest tips to making it work for your financial grownup money goals, and still live life to the fullest.

Here are 3 tips for expensive city living

• How you can plan for the big fixed expenses

• Why you should balance the convenience of prepped vs non-prepped items

• The importance of getting out of the city

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Check out the book trailer here

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Dan Schawbel knew he needed to leave his job, but carefully choosing when and how to do it was the key to success in launching his own social media entrepreneurial venture

In Dan's money story you will learn:

• How he was able to transition from his corporate job to becoming an entrepreneur

• What it was like starting his own company

• How his life was different after making the transition
  

In Dan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's important to be patient when moving from a corporate job to your own job

• Why you should prioritize what's important to you

• Why you should Invest in yourself

In Dan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How using a goal sheet can help you stay productive

In My Take you will learn:

• Why you shouldn’t rush your exit strategy

• Why it's important to create a goal system
  

Episode Links -

• Dan’s podcast - 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

• Dan's book - Back to Human: How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation

• Dan's book - Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Check out Dan's websites -

• Dan Schawbel

• Millennial Branding

• Workplace Trends

Follow Dan!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking to the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of a work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner of Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. There is an expression out there that became very popular a while back. First I believe it was first really mainstreamed on a show called Sex and the City. Then it was a book and then a movie. The expression is he's just not that into you because a lot of the time relationships don't work out, not for some big dramatic, blowup reason, but just because one person isn't that into it. They just hope there's someone else out there that will wow them, that will be their true love, not they're like, good for now, whatever.

Bobbi Rebell:
That can be true for jobs too. Follow me here guys. For all the stereotypes about hating your job and wanting to go into your boss's office and dramatically scream, "I quit." The truth is most jobs are okay. We like them, but sometimes you just know you're just not that into it. So then what? And that was the case with our guest today, Dan Schawbel. He's the author of Back to Human and the host of the podcast, Five Minutes with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners recently, so a special welcome to all of you. We keep the shows short because life is busy, and we want to fit into your schedule, so feel free to listen to one episode. If you are short on time, we try to keep them the classic episodes of which this is one to about 15 minutes. We do Financial Grownup Guides, often on the weekends. Those are even shorter, but if you have a little more time, feel free to stack the episodes together to make whatever amount of time you want to fill. So, if you're commuting, you have a 45 minute commute. Listen to three episodes. If it works for you, we're happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guests, Dan Schawbel, who I learned about through former Financial Grownup guests, Stefanie O'Connell. She's actually been on the show a couple of times. We will link to her episode.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan Schawbel has a great story for all of us about what I was talking about, about just not being that into a job. He was doing really well. His bosses liked him. He liked his colleagues, but it just wasn't enough for him. He wasn't miserable. He just wasn't that into it. Here is Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so happy to have you because your book is amazing, Back to Human, and I'm also enjoying your new podcast, Five Questions with Dan Schawbel, which has the most amazing guest line-up, by the way, everyone from Rachel Ray to Lewis Howes, Chris Anderson, star studded lineup there, so congrats on all.

Dan Schawbel:
Much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we stick to three main questions here on Financial Grownup, and the first of which is to tell us your money story, and this has to do with a big transition in your life that turned out okay, I think. Go for it.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. This was at the early days of social media, so I created the first ever social media positions in a big company back in 2007. I knew I was onto something, and I knew that I had a high value in the marketplace because it was new, and I had the right skills at the right time, and so that gave me a degree of confidence. The other thing that gave me a lot of confidence was outside of work, the reason why I got the position is I was early into blogging, social media. I had my own magazine and a blog that was successful, and to me, that made me realize that, oh my God, not only do I have these skills, but I have the assets, the credibility, the connections that I can leverage, and I was getting a lot of demand from companies to have me speak at those companies to various groups and audiences.

Dan Schawbel:
Between all of that, it proved to me that there was a market that I was the right person at the right time, and that allowed me to transition from corporate life into entrepreneurial life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's fascinating, though, because why didn't your corporate bosses see this and try to retain you?

Dan Schawbel:
It's actually really interesting. They knew that I was eventually going to leave. When I quit, they weren't surprised, but they didn't know when it was going to happen, so they wanted to maximize me and my time when I was actually there. So, that was really smart, and then they became one of my early clients because when I quit, they want to sign a consulting contract. So, that was the transition between when I was there and when they hired a replacement is we were working on a contingent basis.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of discussions were there during this time period? Did they tell you, "We value you? We just literally don't have the budget?" Or was there something else going on?

Dan Schawbel:
My life at the company was pretty wild back then. I mean, we're talking the early days of social media, so my breaks, lunch breaks and breaks outside of work, I was being interviewed by CNN. I was interviewing various celebrities. I was doing a lot of this stuff that I still do, but within the few breaks that I had during the workday and outside of work. So my life was already crazy, and I was being ... Google wanted me to speak on campus. I was getting crazy opportunities, and so it almost wasn't fair to my manager and the company for me to stay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about that and the transition time? What was it like the early days, like day one when you started your own company?

Dan Schawbel:
One of the best pieces of advice my parents ever gave me was have the predictable income, be patient, stay at the company longer until you're really ready because I went through at least a year where I wanted to quit every day. I was like, [inaudible 00:06:11] like going home and working on my business nights and weekends was so enjoyable, what am I dealing with here? And they said, "Be patient. Make sure you have enough money." And I thought that was really good advice in hindsight. Right?

Dan Schawbel:
In the moment, I'm like, get me outta here. I think it is patience, right? It's very easy to be impatient because you get so much joy working on something that you own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the early days like? Day one? No company job. What'd you do? Did you get up and go to the gym, or did you get up and work?

Dan Schawbel:
Honestly, I don't think anything changed really. You know, I think it was the same or maybe a little bit more effort, but I was doing what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your lesson for our listeners? What's the takeaway from this?

Dan Schawbel:
The takeaway is be patient if you're going to move from a corporate job into your own business. Don't rush it. Be smart about how, where and when you're spending the money. Prioritize what's important to you, and if you're young, what should it be important to you is reinvesting in yourself and your own education and to save money so that you can make a transition that's smooth and not as stressful. There's always going to be some stress because it's something new, and people fear change. It's built into us being human. Take your time, be patient, save, know where you want to spend money and also know where you shouldn't be spending money.

Dan Schawbel:
I think that's also important that people don't talk about as much is not having lavish vacations in the early days is important. I didn't really even travel up until maybe seven years ago, and so a lot of the things that I had always wanted to do, I held off on and now I do them more regularly because I'm in a different position, but when you're first starting out, save, be smart about your priorities. Say yes to as much as you possibly can because that will give you the privilege to say no to more things later in life, the open opportunities. Do as much as you can. Surround yourself with smart people. I was fortunate to have supportive parents who pushed me to be as patient as possible and to save, but if you don't have that, I think it's finding role models, finding people who believe in you, and that will give you enough confidence to succeed in the early days so that sets you up for longterm happiness and fulfillment.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also brought with you an everyday money tip, which is something we kind of know, but so many of us just don't do.

Dan Schawbel:
I have a goal sheet that lists out the things that I need to get done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual basis. And even though this is basic, it really helps focus my attention, and there's a certain degree of satisfaction when you check something off, like you completed something, you've achieved something.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel better with that. What was on the top of your to do list today?

Dan Schawbel:
Top of my to do list today was to take a break.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, Back to Human. I really enjoyed this. There's a lot of great things here. For example, you talk about the optimal time for a break and the most productive day. Tell me more about those things.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The most productive day is Tuesday because Monday everyone's catching up on work. You have all these emails, so you're going to prioritize those instead of just planning and working on things that are going to have high impact for you on Tuesday. For every about 45 minutes you work, you should take a 15 minute break. Those 45 minutes, you need to really zone in and be focused.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your podcast, which is ... I hate to say this. This is a positive, but it's addicting because it's less than 10 minutes. It's five questions with Dan Schawbel, and you have such an incredible guest list. Tell us a little bit more about that and how you come up with these amazing guests.

Dan Schawbel:
Yep. So, I have interviewed over 2,000 people in about 10 or so years, and I've always had the same format. It's five questions in under 10 minutes, and it used to be for various media outlets and now I'm doing the same thing for a podcast because a lot of my friends have hour long podcasts, and for me, the format that makes the most sense because I'm a very intense, anxious type person is a very short podcast. And so I started putting it out, and I've been getting the feedback after thousands of downloads about how it's the podcast people listen to you between meetings. It's quick, it's efficient.

Dan Schawbel:
And I've also found that when I interview people, they give their best advice very quickly because they don't have an hour in order to talk about a subject. They need to boil it down into what's most important. So that pressure I put on them allows them to deliver their best content in just a few minutes, and yeah, it's been very enjoyable. The format feels unique and authentic to me, and it took me a while to come up with that format even though it was right in front of my face because everyone's like, "Start a podcast. Start a podcast. Start a podcast." And I had back in 2013. It wasn't the right format. I was trying to do too many things, and so I was patient. I waited, I put thought into it, and now we have Five Questions with Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a great thing. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, be in touch with you, social media, all that stuff.

Dan Schawbel:
You can go to iTunes to listen to the podcast or DanSchawbel.com to see the research, the articles and all of my content as well as the book, Back to Human.

Bobbi Rebell:
And all your social channels, what's your handle?

Dan Schawbel:
It's just my name Dan Schawbel. It's D-A-N-S-C-H-A-W-B-E-L.

Bobbi Rebell:
genius. Thanks Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Do not rush your exit strategy. Dan makes a great point about being patient and planning a gracious exit. You are not in a movie, guys. Screaming, "I quit" is not a very grownup way to move to the next phase of your career. Be Realistic about the challenges that you will face after the big sendoff. As Dan said, nothing really changes your first day, not at your job. It's all on you. Your income will not be certain. Dan couldn't take vacations for a while. When I left my corporate job, I had a multiyear plan that I carried out before I left, and when I did it, it was in the most amicable way possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Create a goal system. Now, Dan talked about how it gives him satisfaction when he checks things off a list. I do that before I go to bed at night, and it calms me down a lot too. To just know what I'm up for it the next day. So, find a system to organize the things that you need to get done in different time increments. I also have begun adopting systems including, for example, [inaudible 00:13:05] in recent months. No affiliation with the company by the way, as my company has grown, and I have to coordinate schedules and deadlines with my growing team.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of that, I'm going to have a very big announcement about a new project very soon, so please follow me on social media for details. It involves a new partner, and it is one of those pinch me. I can't believe I'm actually doing this kind of thing. Translation, I am terrified, but I am excited for all of you to come along for the ride. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1. On Twitter, BobbiRebell, and if you want to be in touch or ask any questions about the show, you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. You can even email us a voice memo, and maybe we will share it in the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone go pick up Dan's book, Back to Human and check out is awesome podcast, Five questions with Dan Schawbel. It is everywhere. Follow him on social as well. Big thanks to Dan Schawbel for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

When payroll is coming directly out of your bank account, every penny is precious. For entrepreneur Vic Drabicky that laser focus on costs, held back growth for January Digital, until he started to see the real cost of his fiscal frugality. 

In Vic's money story you will learn:

• Why Vic's conservative approach lead him to losing a big client

• What he did to turn things around

• Why it's so important to invest in the right leadership

In Vic’s money lesson you will learn:

• "Pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones"

• Why it's important, when looking at investments, to see which ones yield the highest return

In Vic's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What the "plan your work, work your plan" strategy is

In My Take you will learn:

• Doing one thing at a time can help to prevent from becoming overwhelmed

• Sometimes there is no perfect answer but be prepared to pivot when your views change

Check out Vic's website

January Digital

Follow Vic!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Vic Drabicky:
... a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy January, everyone. In this case, January Digital. The marketing agency was named in honor of the month that celebrates new beginnings for so many of us, including its founder, Vic Drabicky. Love his story, and you will too. Such inspiration for the new year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. New listeners, so glad you're here. Welcome back to our regulars. Episodes are short so you can stack them back to back for however much time you have to spend with us. And if you like what we're doing, tell a friend and DM us your feedback. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, and you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Get ready to say hello to our guest, Vic Drabicky. He and his company, January Digital, have worked with amazing brands. Think Fenty by Rihanna, Diane von Furstenberg, Oscar de la Renta, Vineyard Vines, and Kendra Scott. But January Digital's first year was rocky because they didn't invest enough in themselves. Big lessons here, and Vic's tip at the end about how companies and people can get attention on social media without hiring a big company like January Digital is pure gold.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listen to this man. Here is January Digital's Vic Drabicky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Vic Drabicky. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Vic Drabicky:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your digital marketing company, January Digital. By the way this is airing of course in January, so it's perfect timing. Tell us quickly about the name.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. So we are a full frontal digital agency. What that means is brands, primarily luxury brands and beauty brands, come to us and say, "Look I've got this money and I need to advertise my brand digitally. I don't know how to do it. Can you do it for me?" And that's everything from working with folks like Vogue and influencers all the way down to the tactical paid search and SEO and sort of the nerdy parts of digital marketing as well. So kind of top to bottom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where did the name January Digital come from? I mean, digital makes sense. But why January?

Vic Drabicky:
January 1st, if you're poor you're going to be rich. If you're fat your going to be thin. You can do absolutely anything in January. So that theme of renewal and rebirth was really important for me, and important for us in the way that we approach things for our company. It's different than the traditional way too, so that's how it kind of fits together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also a perfect transition to your money story that you brought, because it has to do with the birth of the company. Which of course you were ambitious, but you were also very conservative to the point where it came to bite you. Tell us your money story, Vic.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody that knows me knows I tend to be fiscally conservative. I mean, some would say cheap. I think very calculated. But what happened is we were very lucky early on and our company grew really fast. We went from something like nine people to 32 or 33 over the course of just a couple months. Which was phenomenal and great, but I still had the mindset of, okay, let me make sure that I conserve the profit that we have. Because I started the company with no venture capital, not even a loan. So it was right out of my bank account, which was relatively small.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were paying these people, I mean, you had to hit payroll every month on your bank account.

Vic Drabicky:
Exactly right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'd be pretty careful with that money then.

Vic Drabicky:
Well, right, and that's what you would think, right? This is my money. If I pay these people too much or hire too much, I don't get paid. And then, well, you know, that affects my family and my rent and my kids and all of those sorts of things. And so I took this really conservative approach, even when we were growing really quickly. And what that led me to was hiring folks who tended to be probably a little bit younger and a little bit cheaper. And I was probably a little bit arrogant, thinking, you know what, I've done enough of this; I can figure it out. I can teach them all how to do this and I can be a great leader.

Vic Drabicky:
But when ended up happening in the end is I underinvested in leadership. And because of that, the people that were on my staff all of a sudden, the 30-something people were looking towards me and some of them weren't that happy. And some of them weren't great hires. And that led to our work product being a little meh at times. And then clients felt that. And the year following that extensive growth is where we actually saw the hardest quarter ever, where we had clients and people leave at a rate that we've never seen ever in the history of our company.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you actually lost a big client. What was that discussion like when they pulled the plug?

Vic Drabicky:
Well, a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? And by that time I was lucky enough to have added a couple people to my executive team around me who were accepting of my panic. But also did a great job of sitting down and going, okay, listen, we have been conservative for this long so we have a little bit to fall back on. And I have a great board member from the financial field who helped make sure we secured rainy day funding and things like that just in case something happened.

Vic Drabicky:
So by that point we were okay and we could get through. I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that. But with the help of those guys, we were able to get through it. We were able to stop and say, okay, clearly identify what the problem was: not enough leadership, not enough skill. Let's put together a plan and put together a calculated risk on where we're going to invest against those. And we know that if we're right, that this sort of downturn ... we're only going to really feel the hurt from this for the next quarter or quarter and a half. So if we have this right, then this is a short-term thing when you compare it to the life of a company.

Vic Drabicky:
So for us, we were able to make those decisions. We were able to hold on and stick together. And I'll say that since then, our company has grown at a rate much faster than it originally had, and we've invested in right leadership. And so now our retention rates both for employees and clients are at all-time highs. Our profit margin has steadily increased quarter over quarter over quarter for a year and a half straight. So that investment that we ended up making at that time in leadership, which corrected our original mistake, has really paid off for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your takeaway that you would offer to the listeners so that they could apply this to their businesses, but also to their lives when it comes to investing? Because we do want to be careful with our money.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. So for me it's ... the saying that we've coined is, pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones. The idea is is that a lot of people look at finances and expenses on a sheet and say: where can I make sure my costs stay in line? But what people rarely do is look at it and go: what investment yields me the highest return?

Vic Drabicky:
And the reason I think most people do that is the first one is easy. You put it on a spreadsheet and you go, oh, my people cost me $10, my office costs me 2 ... unless you're in New York then it costs 8 ... and people look at this and that's a very easy thing to move around. But understanding what the profit you're going to get from that investment is much harder and much more nebulous.

Vic Drabicky:
So instead, if you're able to take that spreadsheet and still have it ... add an extra column in the end that goes, okay if I spend these $10 on these people, I'm going to make 20. If I spend this $8 on technology, I'm going to make 22. Okay, that might actually be the better one. So as long as you have that end goal next to it, it allows you to ensure you're pinching the right pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
But if you're being honest with yourself, Vic, looking back, do you think that as a startup entrepreneur, self-funding, which is huge, could you have, even now looking back, really stomached hiring expensive people? It's hard to really do, right?

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. It's extremely hard to do. You know, I think one of the things that's great about not having funding is you don't owe anybody any growth. And so when you don't owe anybody growth, you don't have to take on a deal that maybe your people don't like or maybe you don't like just to hit your growth goals. You can take on things that are really true to the mission of what you want, or what you want to accomplish. And so if that mission of what you want to accomplish is a really good one, then not having that funding allows you to stay true to that and you'll still eventually succeed.

Vic Drabicky:
So there's that side. But on the other side of it, again, having the risk of my bank account being zero if things went bad is an awfully hefty risk. So I still haven't figured out exactly if I would have changed it or not, but I'm very happy to be where we are now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fair enough. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. Because this is something that is relatable to so many people but yet we don't do. Go for it.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. Plan your work, work your plan. Finances more than almost any other part of your business, I think, is something that you have to have a plan around. You absolutely have to sit down, write out what you want to accomplish, write out what it takes, write out what the costs are, all the cost centers, all of those sorts of things. You have to do that. Once you have that plan down, then you work against that.

Vic Drabicky:
Inevitably, what you'll find out is that your plan on day one is slightly outdated on day two, and is really outdated by day 365. But what happens is if you have that plan and you're constantly working against it and you tweak, versus having no plan and trying to resolve everything as it comes out, you're going to be significantly more successful. This works both at home and in the office.

Vic Drabicky:
In the office we have something that we run. We always have our plan for the entire year, then we have our forecast which shows what our trend is, and we have our actuals. And we always keep the plan steady; we never touch it. January 1st it's set in stone. We don't touch it. The forecast we adjust, and obviously the actuals we put in each month.

Vic Drabicky:
But I actually do the same thing at home. I'm very lucky to have married a very talented woman who owns an interior design firm. The great thing about that is she's extremely talented; the bad thing about that means our house is under construction every day for the entire year. It's sort of running on the fly, but what we do is at the beginning of the year we sit down and go, here are all the projects we want to get done for this year. Let's write them down then we can start prioritizing against them, and then we can start figuring out which ones we actually can accomplish, which ones we can't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit more about January Digital and the work that you do there. Explain to me, what is the challenge? Because it's kind of a moving target, digital marketing. And you work with some brands that have ... some are newer brands, some are older brands. Like you work with David's Bridal; that's got to be challenging. You work with Kendra Scott, one of my favorite jewelry lines. Tell me more.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, so I mean, it definitely is. Our primary focus is on retail, luxury, and beauty. So most of our clients fit within that. Not all of them. David's Bridal being a good example of one that, you know, from the outside you might look at it and go, okay, that's an interesting brand but it doesn't sound near as sexy as working with Tory Burch or J.Crew or-

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. So how do you do that? Right.

Vic Drabicky:
What I think is great about what we've been able to do is that we are very good at making sure what we want to accomplish with our clients aligns very well with what they want us to accomplish for them. That sounds very simplistic, but I think a lot of times clients look at agencies and think of them as this mysterious entity over there that they're going to kick work to, and every year they're just going to [inaudible 00:11:16] to make sure that their fees go down. And we're very clear going in to people saying, no, that's not what we want. And we as an agency are going to invest in you. We're going to put people in your offices to make sure we know you and your brand and everything you want to accomplish.

Vic Drabicky:
And what that does is that really aligns both of us not as two separate entities but as one team trying to accomplish things. And whenever you have that as your base, it doesn't matter if you're selling dresses or jewelry. When you have that at your core, your opportunity to succeed is significantly higher. And that's what we've seen. And that's why our client retention rate is north of 90 percent versus the industry average, which is below 70 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you were starting out as an entrepreneur in general, not someone that is a digital marketing agency, but if you're just trying to get attention online, get your brand noticed, do you have any tips for people that aren't at the level where they can hire an agency?

Vic Drabicky:
I still think one of the more underused techniques is to use LinkedIn to advertise your business. You can go in and very quickly advertise against prospects that you want to talk to. You can very quickly advertise against audiences, those sorts of things. And if you have truly valuable content that you want to share, it's a really cheap, easy way to go in and start being very ... test the waters to see how your message is resonating.

Vic Drabicky:
For those that are not in a service industry but maybe you're selling a product, maybe you're a jeweler, or whatever it might be. What I always tell people is start small and then iterate really quickly. There are sort of the basics of digital marketing that always start with Google search, then you can move on to Facebook. But just do one piece at a time.

Vic Drabicky:
If you can do one piece at a time and figure out how to do it well, what happens is it becomes very predictable. And so now all of a sudden every morning when you wake up, you know Google's going to make you $10 and Facebook is going to make you 2. Okay so if your goal for the day was only to make $15, you don't have to worry about those 12. You only have to worry about selling the last 3. And that simplifies [inaudible 00:13:07] problems down and allows you to focus on the areas that you need to solve versus the ones that are consistent and will deliver every day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such valuable advice. Thank you so much. Okay, now that you have a website, tell us where we can go and where we can follow January Digital and you on social.

Vic Drabicky:
Sure. januarydigital.com is the website. Please don't judge us too much; while we think it looks great, we still have a lot of work to do. And then, quite honestly, we do a ton on LinkedIn. I try to post relatively regularly on LinkedIn. Our company does as well. We include content that everyone from our newest employees who are just out of school all the way up to people who have been here six, seven years, we allow them to post content quite a bit that we find valuable. And we share it all pretty openly too, so ... Those are the areas that I think we're probably most active. Obviously we're still on Facebook and things like that too. But that's probably the best area to get to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Vic. This was great.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. I appreciate you having me. And congratulations on all your success as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one. Focus. I get overwhelmed by all the things I want to learn, and Vic makes a great point about learning about new things but maybe focus on one thing at a time. I'm going to take that advice myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. There is no right answer when you're starting a new venture, personal or business. So be prepared to pivot. Vic knows, looking back, that he aimed too low in his hiring. But also admits that his reason for doing so made sense at the time. And he still sees why they made sense, even in retrospect. So in life and in business, part of being a financial grownup is accepting that sometimes there is no perfect answer. Let's say Vic had stretched and had hired more expensive and more experienced people from the get-go; that also had risks. He did what he thought was best at the time and then when it wasn't, he course-corrected.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thanks everyone for joining us. If you like the podcast and enjoy it, don't forget to subscribe. And we really appreciate ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or anywhere. All feedback is good. And big thanks to January Digital's Vic Drabicky for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, the blogger behind The Fiscal Femme website, quit her high paying investment banking job- but spent money as if nothing had changed. The numbers quickly caught up with her, and she quickly learned to be a Financial Grownup. 

In Ashley's money story you will learn:

• The long hours as an Investment Banker was wearing on her

• After receiving a huge bonus she leaves for a job in finance that is less stressful

• How having more free time isn't always so great for your bank account

In Ashley’s money lesson you will learn:

• How the price of a daily latte was affecting her annually

• How talking about money with friends can be helpful for your money goals

• Creative ways to save your money

In Ashley's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why it's important to make mistakes and to not give up when things aren't perfect

• Why writing down our expenses is helpful

• Purchasing unnecessary things daily can add up when calculated annually

In My Take you will learn:

• If you spent money you regret over the holidays, try to return stuff

• Do a latte assessment

Episode Links -

Ashley's book The 30-Day Money Cleanse

Listen to Lauren Smith Brody's Financial Grownup Episode

David Bach's book Smart Women Finish Rich

Ramit Sethi's book I Will Teach You to Be Rich

Check out Ashley's website -

The Fiscal Femme

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Ashley Gerstley:
I just remember looking at my bank account and seeing that my bonus was now $10,000. I think it was over the course of a couple of months that I had just, including my new salary, had just bled through this bonus that I had. I saw that that pace was really unsustainable.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to 2019. We have the perfect episode to get us all on track to be better financial grownups in the new year. Our guest is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, also known as the Fiscal Femme. She just came out with her first book, The 30-Day Money Cleanse: Take Control of Your Finances, Manage Your Spending, and De-Stress Your Money for Good. My favorite part is that she makes sure to include stress, because paying attention to your money can be stressful.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are new, welcome, welcome, welcome, and of course, welcome back to our regulates. We keep the episodes here short, but of course feel free to binge if you have a little extra time. We have a great library of money stories and tips from high achievers like Ashley. If you have the time, enjoy a few. And don't forget to subscribe. Automate your podcasts like your automate your bills, your money. All systems are all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
To Ashley now. Ashley and I met through our mutual friend and fellow financial grownup, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester. Strongly encourage all of you to check out her episode of The Financial Grownup podcast. Like Lauren, Ashley is all about balance and making sure that if there's one thing that your money buys you, it is having a life. Workaholics, we're coming for you. Here is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Ashley Feinstein Gerstley. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book coming out in the new year for 2019, The 30-Day Money Cleanse: Take Control of Your Finances, Manage Your Spending, and De-Stress Your Money for Good. I think we all need that in the new year.

Ashley Gerstley:
That is exactly why I wrote it. I needed it myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a very welcoming book. It's got a very healthy-looking, but also it looks like it's going to taste good too, green shake. I'm very skeptical of the green juice thing. I know they're supposed to be good for you, but they usually taste really bad. This one looks like it's going to taste really good.

Ashley Gerstley:
It has a creamy green look.

Bobbi Rebell:
It has a creamy green look and a very pretty blue stirrer with a dollar sign. Good job to the graphics team.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You started out as an investment banker making very nice money. You were burning out, though. Let's just be real. This was not an easy job. But you held on for the big bonus. Tell us your money story.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. I studied finance in college, then went on to be an investment banker. Great experience, learned a ton, but I was burning out, working really long hours, not any time for my life or friends, family, health. I went in knowing that I would quit after my second year, go through my two-year program and move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, for people that don't know how that works, how does that work?

Ashley Gerstley:
Typically, you get a bonus each year. When people leave, they leave after their bonus, because they work so hard during the year, and it's a large portion of their compensation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like what percentage? People may not be familiar with this world.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yeah, it depends on the year and it depends on your performance and how far ... Sometimes some people in your class can get 100% of their salary as their bonus, and then others get zero or 10%. It really varies, and it's very stressful waiting to find that number, because it can make such a big difference in your life, and you've given so much and have no idea what you're going to get.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you get your bonus, which was how much? And how old were you?

Ashley Gerstley:
I was 25, and it was $70,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is huge. But then the taxman does come, to be fair.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, and it ends up being more like 35,000 when it gets to your bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So now you've downsized. You're going to have a job in finance that's less stressful but less money, but you finally have time for your friends and family and to do all the stuff you weren't doing because you were working.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. I was so excited. I moved to a corporate finance job where I had a 9:00 to 6:00 schedule. Every day I got out at 6:00, when before I would say on average it was 10:00 to midnight. The hard part was not knowing. You couldn't make plans. So it was so fun to know, oh, I can make dinner plans, I can make drink plans, I can sign up for a French class and sign up for a workout class. So I kind of went overboard and made plans every single night making up for lost time with my friends and family.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was going on with the money at this point? Because you did take a salary cut, correct?

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, and there was definitely ... The bonus was a huge cut at the end of the year too. It's not like I could spend more than I made and make up for it. I hadn't really had to think about my finances at all, because I had so little time to spend my money that when I did spend, it didn't really matter, because I was making a great salary and didn't have time to spend it. This was new territory for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the moment when you realized things were going awry and had to make a change? What was happening?

Ashley Gerstley:
What was happening? All of these plans ... I just remember looking at my bank account and seeing that my bonus was now $10,000. I think it was over the course of a couple of months that I had just, including my new salary, had just bled through this bonus that I had. I saw that that pace was really unsustainable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then what happened?

Ashley Gerstley:
What happened? I thought about it. Okay, what are my options? I can go back to my investment banking job, because that worked for me financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you would earn more.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, I would earn more. I would get those big bonuses. I wouldn't have time to spend it. It would be no money problems there. But I didn't want to. I loved this new lifestyle. I loved walking outside when it was sunny out and doing things and volunteering and all of those great things. I decided I needed to figure it out and become a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you actually do? What changed?

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. Like any type A person, I bought a bunch of books and started just devouring articles. One of the ones that I remember making a big difference to me was Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach. Ramit Sethi, I read I Will Teach You to Be Rich, and that was really helpful when I was getting started with investing. Some of the things I did ... found so simple. Writing down what I spent, actually spending time at all looking at my money.

Ashley Gerstley:
One of the things I found was that a lot of my everyday expenses were adding up to a ton over the course of a month or a year, and they weren't even that important to me. A lot of my spending was just on automatic, it's what other people did, it was out of habit, and it wasn't even bringing me joy. For example, shopping. I felt like shopping was something that I should love to do, people seemed like like it, walking around stores, and I didn't enjoy it. Things I didn't even need became things that I had to have once I walked around the store.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners?

Ashley Gerstley:
When I became a financial grownup, when I looked at what I was spending and aligned it with what was most important to me, I was able to save a lot more money and feel like my lifestyle was getting bigger. I was getting a $4.30 latte every day, and now I know it's a lot more money. The prices have gone up. But when I saw that that was over $1,600 annually, I realigned that, or reallocated that towards something that was more important. I decided, I want to take a trip. It was something that I thought I couldn't do at the time. But that amount of money could just move over to something that made me happier. That's one example.

Ashley Gerstley:
A big repercussion of not talking about money with our friends and family is that they can't support us in our goals. One of my best friends didn't know that this was something that I was doing, and I was trying to save money and reallocate my money with my values. They might encourage me to do things that sabotage my goals. And so brainstorming with friends, okay, maybe we're going to dinner every week, what do we value about this time? Is it the time together? Is it trying new foods? Is it going to a cool new place? And then honoring those things that are most important, and then letting go of the things that aren't about it. That might mean, you know what, we want to drink really good wine. This is me. I'd rather eat at home and not have to pay the markup, and drink nicer wine. So creative ways that look different for each of us to honor what's most important to us about an experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's do your everyday money tip. I like this because this also has to do with kind of a celebration.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes, making money fun and more of a game. One of my favorite money tips is to have money parties, because what often happens is, we don't dedicate time to our money or show our money any love. Our money to-dos or checking in on our expenses or finally rolling over that 401(k) kind of hang over our head and stress us out. If we don't create time, we're never going to have time to do it, so I recommend having a biweekly or even monthly time in the calendar to check in and do all of those financial to-dos.

Ashley Gerstley:
And make it fun. I call it a party for a reason. We want to incorporate things that will make it fun for us, whether that's having our favorite beverage, putting on music, getting cozy in PJs. Trying things out, seeing what works, and of course, if it's not fun, try something else, and then rewarding ourselves when we actually have our money party by going out with friends. If you have a money party with your friends, all go out together after. If you're having a money party with your partner, making it part of date night, and either having ... One of my clients has a nice steak after their money party, or ice cream during their money party, to make it more fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever works. That brings us to talking more about your book, because one of the many things I like about it is the inspiring quotes that you have. For example, "Too many people spend ..." This is a classic quote. Everyone quotes this, but it never gets old. "Too many people spend they earned to buy things they don't want to impress people that they don't like." It sounds like you really got away from that when you had this sort of change, going back to your money story. This really all comes together in your book.

Ashley Gerstley:
Yes. It's so ironic, right, that we would ... I think so often we're quote-unquote "treating ourselves" at the expense of what we actually want, which-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We're told we should love, for example, a day at the spa, but maybe we don't. Maybe we'd rather go to, I don't know, on a trip, like you said, to some adventure. Maybe we don't want to just sit on the beach during vacation. Whatever it is, we have these ideas put forth by our friends, and frankly by businesses that push us to do things we may not really actually want to do.

Ashley Gerstley:
Right. That's a whole other topic, is ... For example, in my shopping example, if we're in a store walking around, we're just giving companies the chance to sell us things that we didn't even know we needed.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are your three grownup money tips for the new year from this book that people can follow?

Ashley Gerstley:
Money tips for the new year. One of the biggest New Year's mistakes, and I think this is financial goals or otherwise, is that we give up as soon as we're not perfect. So I think understanding and getting okay with having mistakes or bumps in the road in our journey is really important, because one of the trickiest, sneakiest ways that we cheat ourselves is giving up as soon as we're not perfect. That's really where the learning is. I would say definitely set out those goals with that in mind.

Ashley Gerstley:
Another tip, write it down like I did. It sounds so simple, but magical things happen when we become aware.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I just told this to a friend last night who emailed me and she said she's feeling overwhelmed by her money. She has, for example, retirement accounts in different places, but she doesn't know where. I said, "Just write everything down. Go through your papers, write down what you have, and you'll feel better just knowing it, just knowing the numbers, whatever they are."

Ashley Gerstley:
Definitely. Then another thing I think is helpful, and was helpful for me in my money journey, was just looking at numbers annually. Once you write them down, what is that cost annually? Because sometimes the little expenses seem ... And I hear it a lot. "Oh, I can't afford to go on a vacation. I really want to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your latte example is kind of on it. I mean, that make sense, because that was your vacation money.

Ashley Gerstley:
Right. And lunch is another big one. Spending $15 dollars a day on lunch adds up to thousands of dollars a year.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where people can learn more about you and the 30-day money cleanse.

Ashley Gerstley:
On my website, thefiscalfemme.com, F-I-S-C-A-L, F-E-M-M-E dot com, and on social media, on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, @thefiscalfemme.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Ashley.

Ashley Gerstley:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Loved that last bit about spending just because you're in the store. You know we've all done that. Financial grownup tip number one. If you spent money you regret over the holidays, try to return stuff. If you can't get the money back, get a store credit, and if possible, use it right away on something you do want. If you keep it, create a system so you don't lose it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than finding an expired gift card. Been there.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, if you do find an expired gift card, still go to the store and ask if they're going to honor it anyway. Very often they will, because first of all, it creates goodwill. It makes you feel good as a customer and like them. Also, if you do spend it, you're going to be going back into the store or back online to your website, and you're going to reestablish the habit of shopping at the store, and odds are, you're probably going to spend more than what is on that gift card.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Do a latte assessment. Ashley talked about lattes and lunches. We all don't want to hear it, I don't, but if we're being honest, we do it too much. For example, if you have the Starbucks app, just pull up how much you spent there in 2018 and be aware, and then make the decision that is best for you. I definitely spent too much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. We are moving into our second year, and more than ever, hearing from you really matters. Please leave a review, DM us feedback on the show, whatever works for you. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and our email is hello@financialgrownup.com. And of course, thanks to Ashley Feinstein Gerstley for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell. The following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad, so don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast, or download the app, it is the wise way to send money.

Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Time management expert Laura Vanderkam on how she and her husband decided to pay it forward to free up time to create available time for career and business growth.  Plus behind the scenes info on how she wrote her latest bestseller “Off The Clock” and a sneak peak at her next project. 

In Laura’s money story you will learn:

-Why it has taken Laura so long to figure out the right childcare setup

-How she balances being a frugal person with the reality of her childcare needs

-The problems that emerged as her speaking and writing career began to gain more traction

-How working from home made her childcare issues more complicated

-The specific things she changed when she hired a new nanny

-Why she chose a certain schedule and the specific benefits that provided

-Specific examples of work situations where her new childcare set up allowed her to earn more money

 

In Laura’s money lesson you will learn:

-The reason Laura considers childcare an investment in your earning potential, even if you pay for it when you aren’t technically working

-The importance of going to what she called the “extra stuff’ like networking events and conferences

-Why you should sometimes pay for an extra half an hour of childcare, and what to do with that time

-The relevance of Serena Williams to the conversation and what we can learn from her recent experience missing a major milestone in her child’s life. 

In Laura’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why handwritten notes are important in business

-How Laura has used them to increase her connection with friends and business associates

-How Laura uses that habit to connect on a personal level with her readers and fans. 

 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use money to solve productivity challenges

-A specific way Harry Potter author JK Rowling used this strategy

-Apps and other options that can help you execute the same strategy as JK Rowling

-Why some people are late all the time

-How to not be late

We also talk about:

Laura’s new book “Off The Clock” and how she conducted the exclusive research

The importance of time perception

Laura’s Ted Talk and how we can integrate those lessons into time choices

Laura’s podcast with Sarah Hart  Unger “Best of Both Worlds” 

Her next project Juliet’s school of possibility which is a fable about Time Management

Episode Links

Learn more about Laura at her website LauraVanderkam.com

Check out her podcast “Best of Both Worlds” 

Get Laura’s book “Off The Clock!”

 

Follow Laura!

Twitter @lvanderkam

Facebook LauraVanderkamAuthor

Instagram lvanderkam

LinkedIn Laura Vanderkam

 

 

Apps for last minute discount hotels

hoteltonight.com

OneNight.com

Hotelquickly.com

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Laura Vanderkam:
We had a lot of snow. We could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan who they have this big event booked around me said, "Well, could you come out early?" The idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. I could just say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So that was time management expert and prolific writer, Laura Vanderkam. Her latest book is Off The Clock, which we're going to talk about. A special welcome to our new listeners and, of course, returning ones. As you guys know, we keep it short because I'm a big believer in delivering value for your time. You can always earn more money but time is priceless and we appreciate the time that you spend with us. So we aim for about 15 minutes but you can stack a few episodes together. We do three a week. So make it work for your life. Hit subscribe, put your settings to automatically download, so you're going to have each episode without having to do any work. Go for the easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about time management. So interesting behind the scenes fact ... financial grownup fact here. I came very prepared for this interview with Laura Vanderkam. I was ready to be super efficient and respectful of her time but, in the true spirit of her latest book, Off The Clock, she was not in a hurry at all and, in fact, she said she had all the time in the world. How does she do that? Listen to the interview and then make the time to read her book. The time spent will literally pay for itself. Here is Off The Clock author, Laura Vanderkam.

Bobbi Rebell:
Laura Vanderkam, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your latest book. It's called, Off The Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. I can't wait to see what your next book's going to be. Maybe I'll get a teaser out of you. What are you working on?

Laura Vanderkam:
Actually, my next book will be out in March 2019, and it's a time management staple, it's called, Juliet's School of Possibility. So, yeah, there you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Laura Vanderkam:
The commercial for the next one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. But, in the meantime, once we finish all of your books, we also can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds, which is with Sarah Hart Unger, and that's also one of my new obsessions.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, we really do believe that work and family can work together, that people can succeed at both and love both. And so, that's what the podcast covers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that you guys discuss a lot beyond just time management, but time management as it pertains to kids and getting work done, and that brings us to your money story.

Laura Vanderkam:
Like many parents, it has taken me a long time to sort of figure out what the right childcare setup truly is. And, being a kind of frugal person, I didn't want to spend all that much. So it was always trying to get by on less than I probably needed for me and my husband, and you know, he travels and works long hours, and I was certainly starting to as my speaking career was starting to grow. And so, you know, it was figuring out, well, what kind of childcare do I need? And I'd always spend, you know, normal work hours, maybe eight to five. I mean, I worked from home, certainly I should be able to do that. But the problem is, we need like overnight coverage and we wouldn't have it because people would have other plans cause, hey, we're leaving at five. They'd have other things they were doing in the evening. You know, it was just difficult to make it work.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when we were hiring a new nanny about two years ago, we decided that, well, we truly do need more hours. Let's go ahead and make the investment in doing it. And so, we hired somebody who's initial schedule was to work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday. And the upside of doing eight to eight, it's only 48 hours, right? So it's not excessive.

Bobbi Rebell:
So were you cutting out Fridays?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, we had ... at the time there was another person working on Fridays for part-time. You know, that was the idea. It was like, you're going to have 60 hours of care, split it among two people because you don't burn one person out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, then, you also have a backup, right?

Laura Vanderkam:
We do have a backup. Right. Yeah. So you have one full-time, one part-time. So the upside of having the evenings, I could go to networking events, like even if my husband was working late. Or, if I needed to be somewhere, I wasn't racing back and apologizing for being late. We had the evening covered. We had an extra driver for school stuff, for activities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cause you have four kids by the way.

Laura Vanderkam:
Cause I have four small children. But the real upside has turned out to be that, when you hire someone to work eight to eight, they tend not to book stuff in the evening. So then, arranging for them to stay overnight, and we also hired somebody who was willing to do that. It was basically, pay me overtime I'll do it. Meant that there wasn't always this scrambling thing because it was relatively easy to just get that extra hours in there. And so, yes, it's expensive to have a lot of childcare and to have the availability of overnight coverage, you know, paying overtime for that. But, you know, I really see moments where it paid off.

Laura Vanderkam:
This spring, for instance, I was traveling a lot. I mean, I was giving one or two speeches a week that required travel, we had a lot of snow. One day in early March we could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan, who, you know, they have this big event booked around me, said, "Well, could you come out early?" You know, the idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. Like I could just say yes. And that's what it has been enabling me to get like bigger ticket speaking jobs, ones that are paying more than I certainly would've imagined I could've gotten five, six years ago. And I think it's because I feel like I know I can say yes.

Laura Vanderkam:
But, you know, it's really an investment in your earning potential. And, if you're always trying to get by on less childcare than you need, then you won't say yes to the extra stuff. You won't go to that networking opportunity. You won't go to that conference. You won't maybe stay late that one night when you know your boss is going to see it and really remember it because you're trying to race out. And, over the longterm, those things really do add up. So I really like to think of childcare more as an investment than an expense. And, if you can get your head around that idea, I think you'll really start feeling like a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners? How can they apply it to their lives?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, I think, take an honest assessment of what amount of childcare you have and, if possibly increasing that by a little bit would make your life a lot easier, less stressful, or enable you to pursue professional opportunities that you haven't so far. So it could be maybe an investment in life satisfaction. Maybe pay the person for an extra half hour after you get home, so you don't immediately have to race into serving everyone, making dinner, while you also have kids jumping on you cause they haven't seen you all day. Maybe that person could start dinner while you deal with the kids, right, and have some time with them.

Laura Vanderkam:
Or maybe it's just that, you know, occasionally you'd like to get stuff done a little bit later instead of racing out to make a 5 p.m. daycare pickup. Maybe you can arrange for an evening sitter just like one day a week, right? And that person covers maybe five to eight, and you can get stuff done when the office is quiet, or people see you be there late, or you go to networking events. And, you know, then you've made this investment and it will probably pay off over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you point out those intangible things, like going to a networking event because sometimes people view that as social, but it's social, but it's really also an investment in your career to be out there with your peers. I know Serena Williams recently missed a big milestone because she was training and it can happen to any mom, no matter what. So, you can't let those hold you back from doing things that might benefit your career.

Laura Vanderkam:
SO I think this idea like rearranging your whole life to not miss anything, it's never going to happen. And, if you have more than one kid, you'll miss some stuff cause you're at the other kids stuff. And, you know, people adjust, they grow up, they learn the universe does not revolve them. It's all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, you know. So, it's worth doing a little bit extra sometimes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And there are other ways to bond with people outside of your family, bond with people regarding work in your professional endeavors, and that brings us to your everyday money tip, which is just genius, and I got to experience myself.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah. Well, this doesn't seem like a money tip but it's in line with the idea of networking and building your network, and getting to know people, and establishing these relationships, which is, send handwritten notes. This doesn't seem like a money tip but I can tell you that people are far more inclined to like you when it seems that you have bothered to establish, like put a little effort into establishing a connection with them. It's also memorable because most people don't do it.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when I sent you my book, I included a handwritten note thanking you for your interest in it, and for being willing to take your valuable time to read it. I had a thing going on my website that I was asking people to pre-order Off The Clock, and what people did, they gave me their mailing address so I could send them a signed bookplate that they could stick in the cover when it showed up from whatever online retailer that they pre-ordered it through. You know, I'm mailing them anyway, why not send them a handwritten note? So I sent a handwritten thank you note to everybody who pre-ordered and gave me their address. And this is, you know, a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you made the time because it was important to you.

Laura Vanderkam:
Because it was important. So I kept reminding myself, as I was doing it ... my hand was cramping up. I'm like, you should be so grateful that these people are willing to spend money on a product of yours sight unseen. Those are your big fans you want to connect with them, and I do want to connect with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to take another minute to talk a little bit about Off The Clock. As we mentioned, I did read it on vacation. It was great. You talk about people expand time. That was one of my favorite themes in the book. Tell us more about that theory and how people can apply it to their lives, cause that to me was the most important takeaway from this book.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, for Off The Clock, I had 900 people with full-time jobs and families track their time for a day, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time. So I could give people scores based on their time perception. Like did they have high time perception scores? They felt time was abundant. Or low time perception scores. They felt time was scarce, stressful, all that stuff. Compare the schedules with people who felt like they had a lot of time, people who felt they had no time.

Laura Vanderkam:
People who felt like they had the most time also spent the most time actively engaged with family and friends. So they spent the leisure time that they did have nurturing their relationships, whereas people who had the lowest time perceptions scores tended to spend their time watching TV or on social media. You know, it's not that one group had more leisure time than the other. Everyone was busy. Everyone had full-time jobs, families, but people choose to spend the time that they do have discretionary choices over in different ways. And, apparently, spending time with family and friends makes us feel very off the clock.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And that's, by the way, we didn't mention your Ted Talk, which is amazing. One of the things that you point out in your Ted Talk is that, instead of just fast forwarding through commercials to save time when watching TV, you could just watch less TV. So it's pretty straight forward.

Laura Vanderkam:
The problem with writing that time management, I've seen all these articles over the years of like how to find an extra hour in the day by shaving bits of time off every day activities, and stuff like Taebo, or forward through the commercials. Save eight minutes every half hour over two hours of watching TV, you find 32 minutes to exercise. Like, come on. You're watching TV for two hours, you already had 32 minutes to exercise. Let's not fool ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You called us all out. Tell us where people can find out more about you and all of your different ventures, podcasts, Ted Talk, books, newsletter, all of it.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, come visit my website, lauravanderekam.com. That's just my name. You can learn more about my books including Off The Clock and the podcast, Best of Both Worlds. We'd love to have some of your listeners take some of the extra commutes that they're not listening to your wonderful podcast on, and come give it a listen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much Laura.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. There were so many great takeaways from that and from the book, Off The Clock. I'm going to give you a couple more here and, of course, you can check out the book and get even more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number one. Money can solve productivity problems. One of my favorite examples in the book is when Laura talks about Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling. She was writing her seventh book, [inaudible 00:12:41]. So, by this point she had financial resources to say the least. But she couldn't get any work done in her house because the window cleaner was there, and the kids were home, and the dogs were barking. And then J.K. Rowling says in this story, a light bulb went on. I can throw money at this problem. And you know what? She decamped to a hotel to finish the draft and it worked cause she was able to focus. Money solved the problem.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, not all of us think that we have the budget to do that. I've never done that and to me it does seem extreme on the surface. However, because of the new resources that we have and we're going to give you some ideas and apps that we have access to now, there are very reasonable hotel rooms available at the last minute in our own cities, and that is something we could potentially look into when we just need to get to a place where we can focus on getting our work done, especially when we're coming up against a big deadline. So some app examples are: Hotel Tonight, One Night, and Hotel Quickly. And you can find very cheap deals in your city very often using apps like these. I'll put the links in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you don't have a budget, maybe you have a friend with a spare bedroom. Tell them what you're up to so they don't expect you to be social, but maybe you can use that. And, if it's just a few hours that you need, of course, you can go to a coffee shop. That's always available as a resource for many people. But another option, sometimes, is to just go to your local library and just hunker down in a quiet area there and get some work done.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Be a pessimist when deciding when to leave for important meetings or trips. Vanderkam discovered that people who are late, even though I think it's often inconsiderate or poor planning, really what it is, is they're optimists. They always remember the best scenario of getting to a place. So, if they're planning a trip that involves going to the airport, they might remember that it only took 15 minutes to get to the airport but, of course, what they don't remember is that was at, you know, 5 a.m. on a Sunday when no one else was going. Maybe this time they're going at 9 a.m. on a Monday morning and they don't factor in that it's going to take a lot longer. So, because they're not planning according to the worse case scenario, things go awry. So plan according to the worst case scenario and, you know what, maybe you'll get there early and you'll have extra time, and you can do something fun with that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you for gifting this time to yourself to hopefully improve your life just a little thanks to the wonderful advice and wisdom from Laura Vanderkam. Please be in touch. Follow me on Twitter@bobbirebell, on Instagram@bobbirebell1, and on Facebook@bobbirebell, and DM me with your thoughts on the podcast. Laura Vanderkam is living a very financially grownup life. I got so much value from taking the time to read, Off The Clock, and I know you will too. So thank you Laura for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Parenting expert KJ Dell’Antonia takes the money lessons her parents taught her as a child, and adapts them to her rural life raising 4 kids on a farm. The author of the new book “How to be a Happier Parent” discusses her kids income streams, financial responsibilities, and other behind the scenes details to help other families adapt to the realities of our digital culture. 

 

In KJ’s money story you will learn:

-The specific ways her parents taught her to be financially responsible at a young age

-How KJ applies some, but not all of those rules to her own life

-The strategy KJ uses in teaching her 4 kids about money

-How author Ron Lieber inspired how KJ teachers her kids about finances

-When to pay kids for tasks/chores around the house

-How the things kids want today is different from when KJ was growing up

-KJ and Bobbi disagree about spending money on “virtual” purchases like in-app offerings

-The businesses KJ’s kids have and other income streams happening in her household

-How KJ determines how much to pay her son and his friends to do work on their farm

In KJ’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of setting kids up with savings accounts that have interest

-The lesson KJ learned from her dad about checking accounts

-How KJ set up a virtual allowance for her kids

In KJ’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The strategy KJ uses to be a happier parent when traveling

-Her take on budgeting for travel

-How it is different from her parents point of view on traveling as a family

KJ and Bobbi also talk about:

-KJ’s new book “How to be a Happier Parent” 

-How to set the clocks that you can control

-Why she says ‘everyday is a race against the clocks we don’t set’

-Techniques to set up routines that work

-KJ’s four ways to make parents happier

 

In My Take you will learn: 

-My take on ways to help kids learn to be financially responsible

-How to find your own solutions to teaching kids about money- regardless of what your peer group is doing

-How me and my siblings learned about budgeting from our dad

-My take on traveling with a family and whether to splurge on that extra room or nicer hotel- even if it means cutting the trip shorter

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about KJ and her latest book howtobeahappierparent.com

KJ’s website: KJDellantonia.com

Follow KJ!

Instagram @kjda

Twitter @kjdellantonia

Facebook: KJ Dell’Antonia

Check out the Ron Lieber episode we talks about! 

 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening, but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was new friend, KJ Dell-Antonia talking about her kids and letting them splurge on virtual purchases, something, by the way, we disagreed on. I got to meet her recently at Podcast Movement, and we bonded over all things money and parenting. When I heard she had a new book coming out, How to Be a Happier Parent, I was all over it. You knew she was coming on. This is a great interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to our new listeners. For those of you just discovering us, we're so glad that you're here. As a regulars know, we keep the shows short, around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy life, but we also know some of you have more time so we do three a week. Feel free to listen to a few at a time. Subscribing will make this easier. Don't forget. Go into the settings, set up auto download. Then you don't have to do anything more. Automate your podcast like you automate your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to KJ. Her book is super practical and -- I love this part -- very specific. It's like a roadmap. Very well researched, but it also has a lot of information about her family life which is fascinating by the way. She talks a lot about it in her interview. Here is KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, KJ Dell'Antonia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of so many things but most recently How to Be a Happier Parent which no one needs. We all need this. We all need this so badly, and you're the perfect person because you are the former lead editor of the New York Times mother lode. You're still involved in that kind of writing as well. Congratulations on the new book which is coming out.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a perfect podcast for you because you were basically born a financial grownup. Tell us your money story.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I was definitely raised a financial grownup. I'm an only child, and my dad in particular was really determined that I would understand the value of a dollar and understand how the financial system worked. People say there are those who understand compound interest and then there are those who pay it. He was determined that I would be the one who understood it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was his job? What was his background?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He's in computers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He was not a financial advisor. It's just money is an important part of life, and it was important to him that it be something that I understood. If I had a lemonade stand, I had to pay for all the ingredients and justify how much we were spending versus how much we were making. As I got older if I needed a loan for something, I he would charge me interest. I would really ... I mean I had to pay him every month certain amounts. He set up a checking account for me really early. He got me a credit card really early that I got the bills for. I mean to have missed a payment and paid interest on that credit card, I mean I can think of nothing more shameful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. So now you are officially the financial grownup of the household. You have four children.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
How is this now translating into how you are teaching them to be independent financial adults and then therefore you will be a happier parent?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
That is the hope. We do give them an allowance. It is not an exchange for work. That's a Ron Leiber tip that I have completely embraced. He's the author of The Opposite of Spoiled. I will pay them for jobs that I would pay someone else to do. Now, they are 17, 14, 12, and 12. The 17-year-old and the two 12-year-olds take care of the lawn because I paid someone else to take care of the lawn. In our house, you have to pay for your own electronics. If you want a phone, you have to save up. You have to be able to pay the monthly bills for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So before we were recording, you joked but I think you were also somewhat serious that you are not as good at teaching your children to become financial grownups as your dad was in your case. What's different?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
When I was growing up, I wanted Gloria Vanderbilt jeans or Doc Martens or whatever. My kids want Fortnite money. I feel like helping them to sort of keep track of digital money is really challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So what do you do? I've had this happen where your kid wants money to buy something that is virtual. It's an in-app purchase that's not actually a thing. It's like a new avatar or something that, for me at least, I really don't want them to ever spend a penny on ever. You're okay with them buying these virtual things in these games?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Once it's their money, I'll talk to them. At the end of a month, I might say "Do you realize how much you spent?" Especially when it comes ... I've got one now that wants a phone. Boy, you better bet I'm going "Yeah, look how much you spent on Pokemon Go. You could have had a quarter of a phone for that." Once it's their money, I pretty much let them spend it on whatever they want within some limits. I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell me, for each of them quickly, what are their primary income streams? It is all just for tasks that you would pay other people for? Or are there other things that your kids are doing to earn this money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I have a 17-year-old. He has a small business selling maple soda and maple iced tea at our farmer's market. He's struggling to make a profit at it, but he's finally getting there. He's got allowance saved, and we also have a small farm so I will pay him for farm work. He's hauling hay bales and driving the tractor. When we're in really the throes of farm work, I hire his friends as well. He makes $15 an hour from me. My 14-year-old daughter is a huge babysitter so she gets paid to babysit. In fact, she doesn't do any lawn work. She doesn't want to do lawn work, and she's got her income stream. She babysits. The other ones do mostly lawn work for me and allowance and saving up birthday gifts still, but they're both only 12.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this? What advice do you have for parents in this situation teaching kids about money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you can set them up with some kind of savings where they can see the interest coming in ... My dad actually had something where they would mail me a little tiny check for the interest. I'm not sure how he came up with that, but he kept these minuscule checks. It was neat and it was educational. If you have to have sort of virtual money as we do, I mean all this allowance that I'm talking about, it tends to be virtual. We use an app. Make sure you talk about what's going in and what's going out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. I've done this so I was really excited to hear this. Go for it.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you have kids and you're traveling with kids and this would make you happier, book two hotel rooms. There was a woman in my book who was talking about this and she had a partner, and she was like "No sex on vacation is not a good vacation." That's part of the reason, but part of the reason is just for your own sanity. You have a little ones. You put them to bed. You retire to your own room. You get an adjoining room. Spend a little less time in the location and a little more money on making that a more comfortable experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
One day less you probably won't miss. You'll still really have the experience.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that idea.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah, I feel like one day less but a more pleasant days that you have there is going to be worth it. My folks would have said "But you're just sleeping there because we're going to get up and go." You got to decide what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. That's a lot of the themes in your book, How to Be a Happier Parent, which is coming out right as the kids are heading back to school. It's a perfect time for parents to really be proactively thinking about parenting and-

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... the decisions that they make and the systems that we put in place when we get back into our routines in the fall. I love this quote. "It's hard to find happiness when every day is a race against a clock we don't set."

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah. Part of what I'm trying to do in the book is help you to set the clocks you do control. We talk about mornings, homework, screen time, all the stuff that as we, like you said, get back into our normal routines, we're really looking and going "Okay. How are we going to handle that this year?"

Bobbi Rebell:
One other part of the book I love is there's four things that can make parents happier.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Parents who say that they're happier in their parenting, that they feel sort of better about it, they tend, when their kids are younger, to be one the more involved side. When they are parents of older kids, they tend to describe themselves as doing things that encourage independence in their kids. That's one thing, sort of that evolution from helping to letting go and letting your kids do what they're capable of. Happier parents have a real mindset of recognizing when things are pretty good even if some things are bad. Looking around at a moment when the kids are bickering and maybe there's a lot of homework and dinner's not on the table and recognizing to yourself that "Hey, it's a rough evening, but really overall this is what I wanted. We're all healthy. We're all happy. We're here together" and just soaking in that good feeling.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Happier parents also, they know what's really big. I call it's what's a tiger and what's not a tiger. Most of the things in life that stress us on behalf of our kids are not a tiger. There will always be another balloon. There will always be another lost Thomas train. There will always be another best friend and there's another college. Those things are ... When things go wrong for our kids, it's stressful, but typically, it's not a tiger. The last thing that happier parents tend to say is that they don't put their children's everyday needs above their own. When they're looking at something like what to serve for dinner or where to go on vacation, they don't pick based on what will make the kids happy. They pick based on what's going to make the family happier. Sometimes we should be looking at them and going "I'm sorry. I can't run you to Jessie's house because I've got a tennis game in 10 minutes. You'll have to find another way to get there."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. I do have a pretty regular tennis game on Saturday mornings with my friend. You know what? I get home and my son gets to sleep a little late and it's okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's important for us to stick to activities. You talk about this in the book too. To stick to activities that made us happy before we had kids and just keep doing it. It sets a good example for them. Tell us more about the book, where they can see you, where they can learn more about you, and all that good stuff.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
The best way to find me is kjdellantonia.com. You'll also find me in the New York Times. There's a couple of excerpts from the book that are running or have run, one in the Boston Globe as well. Howtobeahappierparent.com will also work. All the urls, all the things. On Instagram, I'm @kjda, and everywhere else, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Well thank you for all that you do for all of us parents. We truly appreciate it. A lot of what you say actually goes for just about everyone in people that you deal with in your everyday life. Great perspective. Congratulations on the new book.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that KJ isn't afraid to do things differently from her parents even though she admits they did a good job teaching her to be financially responsible. Financial Grownup tip number one. As we raise kids, we may think that our strategy to teach kids to be financially responsible will be the same as other parents, but think again. Some people will insist they want to pay kids for everything. Some don't believe in paying kids for things they should be doing as a member of the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are parents who will -- this is true -- give teenagers credit cards or debit cards with zero restrictions saying "I don't want them to think we can't afford something" or they say they'll monitor their spending and, this way, they can see everything going on and have a discussion about it. I can see the logic. Or they just don't want to bother to talk to their kids about it because they're busy so life goes on and there's no plan and no cap on spending. They just kind of give the kids money haphazardly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever you decide, make it deliberate and I do think it is a good idea to get ideas from other parents, but don't feel pressured to do what they do. Just because your kids bestie has an unlimited credit card doesn't mean you have to do that too. My siblings and I, for example, we had to present a budget to our parents at the beginning of, let's say, a semester of school and then if they approved it and funded it, we had to live within that and that was that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love KJ's tip about travel. The truth is, if you prefer to stay at a nicer hotel or have that extra room like KJ says, just make the trip a little shorter. You'll still have the experience and it will cut down on the tension and make the whole thing a lot more enjoyable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. Tell us more about your financial grownup experiences. DM me. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast which will also get you to the show notes. Those are always at bobbirebell.com/ and then the guest name. In this case, KJ Dell'Antonia. Thanks to KJ for sharing such great tips and insights, helping us all get one step closer to be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Taxes are never fun but millions of Americans may pay less for 2018. David Rae CFP® joins Bobbi for a breakdown of what changes matter and specific things Financial Grownups can do to make sure they are on track for when it is time to turn in their returns this spring. 

Here are 5 tips for year end tax planning

• Max out your retirement accounts

• Set up the Right Retirement Plan for your business

• Strategically Bunch your Tax Deductions

• Consider Doner-Advised Funds

• Tax-Loss Harvesting

Wealth coach Adeola Omole got a do-over she didn’t want when she got laid off a second time- but by being financially prepared she was able to land on her feet. The author of “7 Steps to get out of Debt and Build Wealth” shares her story of how she came out stronger the second time around. 

In Adeola's money story you will learn:

• How she prepared herself for a second lay-off

• What the Super-Charged Financial Strategy is and how it helped her to pay off $70,000 in consumer debt in less than 3 years

• Why you should negotiate interest rate reductions

In Adeola’s money lesson you will learn:

• What she did to layoff proof her life

• Why debt is the only thing that holds you back from living the life you want

In Adeola's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What it means to triple-check your way to wealth and why it's important

In My Take you will learn:

• Why no ask is too great when negotiating interest rate reductions

• Why it's so important to pay attention to what's going on in your industry on an economic level

Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away- all you have to do it DM me your takeaway from this episode- bobbirebell1 on instagram bobbirebell on twitter or email us at hello@financialgrownup.com

Episode Links:

Check out Adeola's website - https://www.adeolaomole.com/

Adeola's book 7 Steps to Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth

Follow Adeola!

• Instagram

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Adeola Amole:
Because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I have these rental properties that are cashflow positive, I have money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. It's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. No matter how much we talk about being ready for something like a layoff who really is? Right? For today's guest, wealth coach, author, social worker and lawyer, Adeola Amole, getting laid off for the second time still caught her off-guard even though the signs were all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
This time she was a lot better prepared and I think you are going to be very interested in what she did to layoff-proof her life. It was not just having an emergency fund, although that also matters a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy holidays to everyone and special welcome to our newest listeners. So glad you found us. We keep the episodes on the short side, about 15 minutes, with the idea that you can stack a few together to fill the time that you have to listen. Feel free to listen to a few episodes at a time if that's what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get back to Adeola. She is also the author of a really readable book and I don't take that lightly because it is true to the title 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth in that she really walks us through exactly what to do. Action steps, not just theories. She comes from experience as you will hear in our interview. Here is Adeola Amole.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adeola Amole. You are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adeola Amole:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
We practiced saying your name because I am terrible at pronunciation. I just want to say for people curious about the name Adeola Amole it is of Nigerian origin. I just learned this. It means crown of wealth, which we love, so welcome.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you. Yeah. No. I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth. You are a money coach but by trade your background is as a lawyer and you have a graduate degree in social work. You know a lot about a lot of things.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you for that. I like to think that I'm a person who just wants to learn and I love learning about so many different things as my background shows. Now I'm living my passion. This wealth coaching thing is right up my alley. I also am able to still use the legal background as well as the social work background. It marries brilliantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to your money story. It has to do with the art of the do-over. Let's call it that. Go for it.

Adeola Amole:
I got laid off and I literally had no backup plan, no clue how to do it. Long story short, I figured out a strategy. I call it the Super-Charged Financial Strategy. I figured out how to pay it all off and luckily for me [crosstalk 00:03:30]

Bobbi Rebell:
We should say you had quite a bit ... You had $70,000 in consumer debt when you suddenly had no income of your own and your husband had a smaller income. You had the larger income.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. You are absolutely correct. $70,000 was paid off in the first three years of the plan. Just shy of three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the plan? When you say the plan what is the plan?

Adeola Amole:
The Super-Charged Financial Strategy is a two-part plan. The first part of the strategy I call it the Super-Charged Debt Repayment Plan and that literally is the snowball method on super-charged. Hence, the fact that I call it the Super-Charged Plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would pay but you would also negotiate a lot with the credit card companies.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. I would negotiate like crazy. This is where the legal background truly did pay off because I literally knew ... I setup the system for myself and I knew exactly what processes I would have to use. If I didn't get what I wanted from the rep I would just ask to speak with a manager and usually got what I wanted. I knew how to negotiate myself to as low a rate as possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about this is you at times went for the 8% or 9% but you even went for 0% sometimes. You can ask for that. It's a little bit bold, you won't always succeed, but you can ask for 0%.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. It works. It helps you crush that debt faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You had the first layoff. You learned from the idea of not being prepared. Then life goes on, you get a new job, the recession, we move past the recession, past that 18 months of being unemployed, things are good, you now have a child, your husband is home now taking care of the child. What happens next?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. To add onto that story we have a child but now we have two rental properties. We have money in the markets. We built up assets after having paid off the $70,000 consumer debt. Now things are looking fabulous, my husband is a stay-at-home dad. He's been with our son for four years.

Adeola Amole:
Then we get pregnant with a second child but I didn't tell my employer this because most women know this, first trimester you just stay hush hush until you go into the second trimester. Long story short, I get laid off again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you had any idea this was coming?

Adeola Amole:
No. Well, I shouldn't say no. What happened is I worked in an industry where it was really contingent on oil prices. Oil prices had just crashed. This was I believe last quarter of 2014. I was in a position where we got rumors as to, "Things aren't looking so good. Oil is going down." People talked about it but no one knew that it was going to happen. We had suspicions but obviously I didn't think I was going to be one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel looking back you had a sense of denial maybe about it?

Adeola Amole:
Absolutely. Absolutely. However, I have to tell you because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I had these rental properties that were cashflow positive. I had money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. What happens?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. I'm laid off. My employer at the time doesn't know that I'm three months pregnant. I should have been absolutely terrified but I wasn't because, as I said, we set ourselves up. We had cashflow in properties. We had investment properties.

Adeola Amole:
My husband and I were figuring out what to do next and we had five months to think about it. Guess what? There was money to take care of everything. We had a 12 month emergency plan. It was really my financial do-over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. What is your advice for our listeners? What's the takeaway here?

Adeola Amole:
The biggest takeaway is, guys, plan for these what ifs. These what ifs it's not if they're going to happen. It's when they're going to happen. It's best to just put a plan of action in place. Crush that debt. Like get it off your plate, get it off your balance sheet.

Adeola Amole:
At the end of the day, that's what's holding you back from really creating the life that you want to live. If you get that out of the way you can truly start planning where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You brought with you a great everyday money tip that's something we kind of all should know but we just ... I don't do it. I totally take the short way and I'm sure I've made so many bad decisions, I know I have, because of it. Teach us.

Adeola Amole:
You're awesome. The tip that I have is triple-check your way to wealth. It's a really simple tip and it's something that you can totally use today and it means that when you're looking for any item, like any big ticket item, even a little ticket item, always at least refer to three merchants or three service providers for pricing and also for service. This is boiling down to people as well as prices. I think it matters to work with good people. I always want to work with good people. I always want to get the best prices.

Adeola Amole:
I recently had some auto body work that I had to do. I was referred to one company and when I called them ... They're a reputable company and I've heard about them so I knew that they were good ... I called the service provider and they set a price that sounded wonky to me. It was like $3800 to get this done. I literally almost lost my mind.

Adeola Amole:
I thought, "Okay, let's just call around" so I called a few other folks, got some references. Long story short, after doing the check I found an incredible company, extremely reputable, used by the best dealerships where I live, and they came up with a price that was just $1000 shy of the price so it was $2800. The people were incredible, they were extremely friendly, and because I'm a lawyer I decided I'm going to negotiate an even better rate.

Adeola Amole:
I spoke with the guy and told him, "Okay, what can we do here? I really want to go with you, I really like you guys. What more can you do for me?" Sure enough he gave me $200 less than it was originally quoted. $2600 and change. Long story short, guys, triple-check your way to wealth. That extra money now can go into my investment portfolio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite go-to source for even finding vendors or people that you can work with? Sometimes it's really hard just to get referrals.

Adeola Amole:
It's the truth. It depends on what it is. In this instance, because it was auto body I've worked with a few companies in the past so I went to the companies I trusted. My husband and I drive Acuras and Hondas. I went to the dealerships, the Acura dealerships that I like and that we've dealt with in the past and I spoke with the guys and said, "Who would you refer?"

Adeola Amole:
They gave me some auto body shops. Then I went to the Honda dealerships, "Who would you refer?" I had a list of a bunch of them. Go to the source. If you're looking for even if it's just furniture and stuff go to the sources. Go to the people you know who have fabulous furniture or go to the companies themselves and just start talking to the people who are working there. Sometimes they'll tell you, "Don't buy it here. Go here."

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an advantage to talking to them in real life versus just calling around or looking at an app?

Adeola Amole:
You know, I think there is. Always that human connection will get you the better referrals and then you can connect with them, right? So they're willing to give you that information. Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think being in person makes a huge difference. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you and your book.

Adeola Amole:
Oh, absolutely. My book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth, guys, it's available everywhere. Go to my website www dot Adeola Amole dot com and there you can choose your retailer of choice because I'm on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books A Million, Indigo, pretty much anywhere you can buy books it's available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much. Social media, where can we follow you?

Adeola Amole:
Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm everywhere but Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm at Adeola Amole B.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This was great.

Adeola Amole:
Aww. Thanks for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one, when it comes to things like cutting your debt no ask is too aggressive when you negotiate for interest rate reductions like Adeola. She went for the 0% interest rate. Kind of surprised me but I'm impressed. While she didn't always get there she sometimes did so why not ask?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, listen to the whispers at work. Pay attention to the larger macro economic climate and what's going on in your industry. Adeola in her gut knew that there was a good chance she was going to get laid off but she was still surprised. Financially, though, with her multiple and largely passive income streams she was ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, everyone. Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away. All you have to do is DM me your takeaway from this episode on any of the social channels. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, or if you prefer email you can email me at Hello at Financial Grownup dot com. Big thanks to Adeola Amole for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Dr. Daniel Crosby is great at helping others come to grips with their often irrational money related behavior. But just 3 years ago when it came time to make a big real estate decision, his own insecurities and money issues drove a decision he now regrets. 

In Daniel's money story you will learn:

• Why he feels like buying a big house was his biggest financial mistake

• The reasons behind his move and why he wanted a big house

• Why moving to a different neighborhood or a slightly smaller house doesn't make financial sense

In Daniel’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why buying a home isn't the way to buy happiness

• Why it's important, when making financial decisions, to look at your emotions and insecurities behind your decisions

In Daniel's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why it's important to identify a point of weakness in your financial lives

In My Take you will learn:

• If you own it, own it

• Why it's important to realize that because you can "afford it" doesn't mean you have to buy at the top of your budget

Episode Links:

• Daniel's Course

• The Behavioral Investor

• The Laws of Wealth

• Daniel's podcast - Standard Deviations

• Brian Portnoy's Financial Grownup Episode

Follow Daniel!

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
But the crazy thing here is, that Dr. Crosby has done all this research into why people do dumb things when it comes to money. And then, he goes ahead, and by his own admission, falls prey to a big financial decision, largely because of his ego. Dr. Daniel Crosby and his wife are moving with their kids from Alabama to Georgia, and they bought a really big house in a really fancy neighborhood.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not out of their budget, but out of their comfort zone. His insecurity is endearing, and I believe, totally sincere. I hope you enjoy this chat with Dr. Daniel Crosby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Dr. Daniel Crosby, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Daniel Crosby:
Thank you. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so excited you're here. We were introduced by a mutual friend and a fellow Financial Grownup, Brian Portnoy, who was on talking about his book, Geometry of Wealth, and everyone can check out that episode. We'll leave a link in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are, and I'm going to read your own notes that you sent to me. You are a shrink turned money guy. You have a PhD in Clinical Psychology. You are also The New York Times Bestselling Author of three books. Your latest book is called The Behavioral Investor. We're going to talk a lot more about that soon. And it is about the four most common psychological traps that we fall into. What a great teaser, Daniel.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, yeah. On book three, I'm getting better at this. I was crummy the first time, but I'm getting there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also have a little firm called Nocturn Capital. Cool name. Who came up with the name?

Daniel Crosby:
Well, my wife is a pianist, and she likes Chopin, so she plays a lot of nocturnes. One nod is to her, who I love very dearly. And the second nod is, to things that are nocturnal are most active when things are darkest. So it's sort of a nod to value investing and my dear wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to our money story that you brought. It's about a financial mistake and I guess we'll dissect that from a psychological standpoint. It has to do with buying a big house.

Daniel Crosby:
We had a beautiful home. A more modest home, but a very nice home in Alabama that was very inexpensive, of course, as well. Almost immediately, like almost immediately upon moving back to Alabama, I'd started to experience sort of this lack of respect I felt at conferences, but then, also I was just itchy. Like just itchy to go somewhere new.

Daniel Crosby:
So we started to have this conversation and it was couched in reasonable terms, and I think that that's one of the dangerous things about how we can kind of fool ourselves, behaviorally. I couched it in terms of, "It would be nice to be close to a better airport, it would be nice to have access to deeper pockets in a larger population," all of which is true on the margins.

Daniel Crosby:
But when I'm really, really honest with myself, the thing that was driving the conversation was A, my ego, my desire to sort of show people that I had arrived. And B, was this sort of shame. Those were kind of the big primary drivers, but during the time when my wife and I are having the conversation, it wasn't framed in those terms.

Daniel Crosby:
And I think that's one of the dangerous subtle things about human cognition, is we can operate in ways that are based out of fear, or weakness, or greed, or whatever. And we can lie to ourselves a bit to make them seem more palatable to ourselves, and we can really buy our own BS. We listen to the bankers, right.

Daniel Crosby:
We said, "How much loan can we get?" And we saw the number, and we were rightly shocked by how high it was. And we backed off of that considerably, even by about 50%. But still, we never stopped to ask ourselves, and I think many homeowners do this. Many people who are purchasing a home, they ask themselves, "How much house can I afford and not how much house should I afford?"

Bobbi Rebell:
If you feel comfortable, could you tell us the numbers involved, and what that house was worth, and what the new house was worth?

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, so the old house in Alabama, we still have as a rental property. We've rented it ever since we moved out. It's been great. And then we paid 750 for the house in Atlanta.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is not a question of affordability.

Daniel Crosby:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
You could afford that, right.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not at all a question of affordability. See, that's where I think that the nuance comes in. It's not a question of affordability. We got approved and could have afforded much more than that. It's not even a question of, "Is it a nice place?"

Daniel Crosby:
Because it is, but it's just something that, it's not us. It's in a gated neighborhood. So people come through and they go, "Oh, wow. A gate, and a big house." And my wife and I agree, that it just doesn't suit our personalities.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are you going to do about it, Dr. Crosby?

Daniel Crosby:
Well, this is a point of weekly conversation, because now we have a child, who's in the local school system, and she's on student council, and she's really thriving. And so, I don't know. I mean, we feel kind of stuck and there's so many transaction costs involved with the sale of a home.

Daniel Crosby:
I think if we were to move, we would just move within the area, which is almost exclusively homes a lot like ours if she were to stay in the same school. So candidly, I don't think we'll do anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever talked to the neighbors about the general culture of the area, or the perception of the culture of the area?

Daniel Crosby:
You know, I never have. And I think it's one of those taboos, and you worry that you're going to get looked at sideways, but no. I've never talked with the neighbors about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Daniel Crosby:
The takeaway is, if you're trying to buy happiness, a home is absolutely not the way to go, I think is takeaway number one. There's just so much involved with it and your hassle grows with the size of your home.

Daniel Crosby:
And I think lesson number two, which is perhaps the more important lesson is, be careful of the ways that you can deceive yourself. When you're thinking about your financial life, be sure to get down to the nitty-gritty, the emotional stuff, the pain, the insecurity. That's where I didn't go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to shift gears and get to your everyday money tip.

Daniel Crosby:
What I encourage folks to do with their financial lives, is to try and identify a point of weakness beforehand. To try and say, "If there's a reason that I'm not going to reach my retirement goals, or whatever it is, what would that reason be?" And so I walked through this with a friend of mine, who was over for Thanksgiving. And we were talking about his upcoming retirement.

Daniel Crosby:
And he disclosed to me what percentage of his wealth was in this single company stock, and it was well over 50% of his significant wealth. And I said, I walked him through this idea of a premortem, and said, "Look. If something were to go wrong with your savings and your retirement nest egg, what do you think it would be?"

Daniel Crosby:
And he said, "Well, probably some sort of risk to the business that would cause this stock to decline a great deal." And it's like, "Yeah." Because you can't always meet that head-on. I was aware of this over-concentrated position of his for a long time now.

Daniel Crosby:
But when you try and say, "Hey, man. You got to sell this, you got to tell this, you got to diversify," there's a very human nature, a very human tendency to tell people to, "Get lost," when they sort of command us to do something.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your book, The Behavioral Investor, is your latest bestseller, following I think your big book was The Laws of Wealth. One of the things that love about The Behavioral Investor, is that you make us take a second look at a lot of the assumptions that we have, especially regarding investing.

Daniel Crosby:
So real space behavioral investing has a couple things in common. First of all, it has a reasonable fee. When Morningstar looked at all of the data points that predict investment performance, they found, came to the decidedly unsexy conclusion that the number one predictor of how a fund does is how much it costs. Because, of course, those costs directly erode from your performance.

Daniel Crosby:
So the first check mark is whether it's active, passive, or whatever in-between, right, it needs to be have an appropriate fee. The second thing you want to look at is that it's rules-based. And this is sort of goes into the first. Rules-based portfolios tend to be cheaper than discretionary portfolios because you got to pay some Ivy League genius to run the discretionary portfolio, whereas the rules-based portfolio can just run on algorithms.

Daniel Crosby:
So rule number one, portfolio needs to be adequately priced, sort of cheapishly priced. Second thing is, it needs to be rules-based. And then the third thing is, it needs to automate good behavior. Most of us have the tendency to do just the wrong thing at the wrong time. I mean, that's sort of the simple lesson of The Behavioral Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was interesting. It was on page 193, you talk about intuition, and which jobs have had the best and the worst intuition. So the worst, I'm sorry to say, included psychologists, I believe. Like you.

Daniel Crosby:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Also stockbrokers.

Daniel Crosby:
Like me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is discouraging. Also, college admissions officers, which is really upsetting because we really want to think for all the care and the years of preparation that we spend preparing ourselves, preparing our children for college, that they have better gut instincts.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, of course, judges, another important job. And intelligence analysts and HR professionals. Daniel, you're bursting our bubble here.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, but if you look at those things, there's a very common thread that runs through all of them, and it's humanity, right. So people who do have intuition, are mathematicians and physicists, who have seen a problem, they've familiarized themselves with it, and they can start to intuit.

Daniel Crosby:
Like, "Oh, I think this is where it's going," because math and physics and related hard sciences follow hard rules. Human beings, for better and worse, do not follow hard rules. And so the more there is a human element to the work you do, the less intuition counts.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Hot button topic today, passive investing. And some big proponents of it have come out, expressing real concern about the fact that passive investing, in the form of especially of index funds, is really getting to a level that is concerning.

Daniel Crosby:
So we know on the one hand, that over the last 30 years, passive investment vehicles have beaten their active counterparts about 85% of the time. I mean, a little bit more or less, depending on what sort of asset class you're looking at. But, I mean, that is like incredible, and to think that they've done it at a fraction of the cost is even more incredible. So that's sort of exhibit A.

Daniel Crosby:
But exhibit B, we have the real truth about financial markets, which is that, as soon as everyone thinks something is a good idea, it sort of ceases to be a good idea. And it's something that's referred to as the tragedy of the commons, right, and it comes back from ancient times, when there was like a common park or a common pasture.

Daniel Crosby:
And so, it's the best thing for all of the farmers to want to graze their cows on someone else's land, until all of the farmers decide to do that, and then there's no grass left. So as long as a minority of people are passive investors, which is the case today, passive investing makes a lot of sense.

Daniel Crosby:
But as everyone begins to latch onto this and as everyone beings to head in that direction, I think theoretically, you have to ask yourself the question, "Does it become sort of unmored by the fact that everyone's grazing their cows in the same place?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us about where people can learn more about you, and your book, and your podcast, which we had not mentioned yet, and all the things.

Daniel Crosby:
I'm very active on LinkedIn, Daniel Crosby, PhD. I'm at Twitter, @DanielCrosby. And you can tune into the podcast, which is called Standard Deviations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Daniel Crosby:
My pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's break this down. Financial Grownup tip number one, if you own it, own it. Dr. Crosby is sincerely uncomfortable in his house, but it doesn't make financial sense for him to move. I asked him if he had talked to the neighbors because it seemed to me, that he is assuming that all of his neighbors are the kind of people that live in really big, really fancy houses, unlike him and his family who's really more modest, but bought something that's just too fancy for the image he feels comfortable with.

Bobbi Rebell:
He hadn't talked to his neighbors. Maybe if he reaches out to them, make some friends, and sees the area as a family neighborhood, not a collection of just fancy houses with people more fancy than he is, he might be a little more comfortable. Or, maybe not. But in general, I think it's always good to humanize what's going on in a situation that makes you a little uncomfortable. People may not be what you perceive them to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, a little blast from the past housing crisis. You don't have to buy a big house or an expensive house just because the banker said, "You can afford it." Even if you cut their budget in half, as the Crosby's did, if you don't want to have that much house, don't. Besides, you can always add on an investment property with the extra cash and create a little passive income, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your continued support of the show. It really means a lot when you write a review, so please take a moment this holiday season for that. And be in touch on Instagram on bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can always email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And big thanks to Dr. Daniel Crosby for being so candid and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.