WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work
Money Tips
1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.
2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.
3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.
Follow Jill!
Instagram - @jilleduffy
Twitter - @jilleduffy
Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/
Jill’s book - The Everything Guide to Remote Work
Follow Bobbi!
Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups
Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!
Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.
Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.
Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.
Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.
Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.
Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.
Jill Duffy:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?
Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.
Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.
Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.
Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?
Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.
Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.
Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?
Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.
Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.
Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.
Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?
Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.
Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?
Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"
Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."
Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?
Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.
Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.
