Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart it out! Bobbi shares some background and reveals the key takeaways from the book. 

Tips to Launch financial Grownups

1. Make it about them- not you

2. Listen to them if you want them to listen to you

3. Don’t be the solution- help them find solutions

4. Be clear with your expectations and also the support to get there

5. When it comes to investing- focus on risk tolerance 
   

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Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

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Full Transcript:

Grownups! If you are listening to this on Tuesday March 22, 2022 this is a day I have been working towards literally for years. My new book: Launching Financial Grownups: Live your richest life by helping your (almost) adult kids become everyday Money Smart is officially out!

In this episode I am going to be sharing my top tips to launch financial grownups but first: 

I know we have been getting some new listeners so I want to bring you up to speed with a little background on me and what we talk about here on the podcast. 

I was for many years a business journalist- I covered mainly stock market news and economics - I interviewed CEO’s and talked a lot about what the fed was doing. I started at CNBC out of college, went on to CNN, PBS and finally Reuters were I spent more than a decade as a global business news tv reporter and anchor. I also was able to write a column on personal finance that was syndicated which was so much fun. But a few years ago I decided to switch gears- and become an author. My first book was How to Be a Financial Grownup. I interviewed what I would call the celebrities of the business world- people like Kevin O’Leary from Shark Tank, Tony Robbins, Designer Cynthia Rowley and I even got some money tips from Drew Barrymore who is actually quite the business woman.

After the book I decided that even though I knew a lot about money I wanted to really be confident when people asked me stuff so I went and became a Certified Financial Planner, also known as a CFP®. Let me tell you, it’s a lot of studying and work, and then at the end of it all you take this super hard test that almost half the people taking it fail. To this day, I consider passing the CFP exam to be my biggest academic and career accomplishment- even more than the books or my college degree from the University of Pennsylvania (Go Quakers) 

So fast forward: Books take time and Launching Financial Grownups was no exception. It was inspired by my own experiences- and challenges.  And full disclosure- stuff still comes up today that it not easy - not at all- with launching my own (almost) adults. 

Like they say on the bachelor- it’s a journey. Oh- yes- I got back into the bachelor over the pandemic. I’m team Gabby all the way. But we digress.

So it’s a whole book but here are a few highlights just to get the conversation going about what it means to launch financial grownups. 

Tip # 1. Make it about them- not you

You have your dreams for them- we all do. And you know what’s best for them. But these are not little kids- your children are adults and you need step away from the mirror and stop seeing their life as a reflection of you. Stand beside them and look through the window and see the possibilities that they are seeing from the their perspective. 

Tip #2: Listen to them if you want them to listen to you. So someone recently asked me about a script to get their kids to listen. Ok. Consider a script with lots of white space and room for improv. This is something Tori Dunlap of Her First 100k talks bout in my book- we as parents need to make sure we are actively listening and hearing and processing what our almost adults are sharing with us. If we tune them out- how are we surprised that they tune US out. Right?

Tip #3: Don’t be the solution - instead help them find solutions. Let’s say your almost adult comes to you and needs money for a project that is super important to them. You could write them a check- and some of us might even dig into our savings because we really want to be there for our kids. Instead- maybe brain storm with them to help them find other ways to fund the project- maybe a go fund me type page, maybe a side hustle, maybe look for grants from non profits or the government. 

Tip #4 Keep your expectations high but also realistic- and make sure they know you have the confidence to believe in them that they can do it. Don’t offer help your (almost) adults without them asking though. Wait for it. The ask may not come and that is good for them. It may be hard if you feel you aren’t needed. But that’s on us as parents. We want to feel needed- and we are- but how we are needed changes. 

Tip #5: When it comes to investing- don’t judge specific investments. Focus on broader skills and strategies. For example, teach them about diversification. If they want to invest in NFT’s who are we to say that’s not going to pay off- we may even have some ourselves. But make sure it is the right percentage of their assets. Same goes for making sure they are tuned in to their personal risk tolerance. And because time is on their side, they can afford to take more risk than us. Let them know that- oh- and no “I told you so’s” if their investments don’t pan out. 

For more I hope all of you pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups- it is on sale now. And then tell me your tips on Launching Financial Grownups- on instagram I am at bobbirebell1 on twitter at bobbirebell. 

I also would love to share more about the book with you, your company, or your school or non profit so be in touch- go to my website and click on the work with bobbi tab at the top right to be in touch. 

And as always show notes and full transcripts are available on my website bobbirebell.com where you can sign up for the newsletter where I curate media that can help us all live our best grownup lives. 

Thanks to all of you for your kind notes and all the likes- and for being financial grownups. 

Let’s take the stress out of grownup life. Instead of lifestyle creep, embrace a lifestyle upgrade. Intimidated by the idea of building a full emergency fund? Just start with a short term crisis fund. Ashley Feinstein Gerstley walks us through how to be intentional with our money, and avoid information overload. 

Money Tips

• What you can do to prevent lifestyle creep.

• What is the difference between a crisis fund vs rainy day fund.

• Learn what a walkaway fund is.

• Learning the things you should and shouldn’t know in order to make things more manageable.

• Who couldn’t use some negotiation strategies?!

• Sinking funds - what are they and why should you know about them?

• It doesn’t have to be all or nothing

• Retirement does not have to be associated with age

• Riskiest part of investing is that we are human

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Follow Ashley!

• Instagram - @thefiscalfemme

• Facebook - @TheFiscalFemme

• Twitter - @TheFiscalFemme

• LinkedIn - @knowing-your-worth

• Website - https://thefiscalfemme.com

• Tanja Hester’s episodes HERE and HERE

• Ashley’s book - Financial Adulting

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us and, of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child." And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Money Smart. I'm excited to share with all of you and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. And thank you for your support.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
It was this moment where as a financial adult in a different stage, I was very frugal. I wanted to reach these money goals. There's this point where it's like, "When do I want to invest in something that will really benefit my happiness?" And it's not a cheap thing to get a babysitter every single week. But it's something that we did, an investment we made, and it has been so incredible. So that was a conscious lifestyle upgrade I made versus allowing like expenses to creep in.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grownups, as I say, in the intro, being a grownup is hard. But you know what? There's so much great stuff that comes with being a grownup as well. And with, for example, we're going to talk about this, having a little more spending power as we grow into our adulthood and feel the confidence of being on track to our goals. And by the way, little tangent quickly. Speaking of goals, one of my goals is to start getting out and seeing more of you this spring and summer. My new book, Launching Financial Grownups, is coming out in just a couple of weeks. And if you, your company, an organization that you're part of, or just people in your life are looking for speakers or program ideas for this spring or summer, let's chat. Go to my website for more information, bobbirebell.com/speaking, to get in touch and for more information.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about this week's guest because she is one of my favorites and someone who shares my passion for helping us all be financial grownups. Ashley Feinstein Gerstley is the author of the new book, Financial Adulting. It's a guide that breaks down everything that we need to know to be financially confident and conscious as adults. Ashley is also a money coach, author of The 30-Day Money Cleanse, and the founder of The Fiscal Femme, a money platform on a mission to end inequality through financial wellbeing. And as you will hear, I got so engrossed in our conversation that I actually lost track of the money tips that Ashley was sharing. Turned out there were nine and each one was really cool. Here is Ashley Feinstein Gerstley.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Feinstein Gerstley, welcome back to the podcast. You are a financial grownup and you're also a financial adult.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So guys, I'm joking about that, because Ashley has a new book out called Financial Adulting. Nothing, by the way, like my previous book, How to Be a Financial Grownup. It's a very different take that I absolutely love. And so tell us about it. Welcome back.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you. Financial Adulting. I'm so excited about it. It basically covers all of the money topics. And I interviewed 35 experts for the book. A wide range of diverse experts. I'd say part how to. Or mostly a how to, with some expose in there. So it's fun. I think I let some more of my humor through than I did in my last book. And I'm just excited for it to be out in the world.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. And it has a lot of personality to it. And so I feel like we can kind of be with you on this journey. And also, there's a lot of data that is sort of jaw-dropping. I'm going to leave that to people to read in the actual book. What I did is when I went through, I kind of took some notes. And so I'm going to ask you to expand on some of the big themes that jumped out at me. Starting with, okay, this is one... And this is where you show your personality. You also show sort of the maturity of coming at money as a financial adult. You talk about the difference between lifestyle creep, which is something people warn against, and lifestyle upgrade. Ashley, so what's the difference?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Lifestyle creep, I feel like it's more happening behind the scenes. Whereas an upgrade is very intentional. We're consciously choosing to add something or pay for something or do something in our life. I had an example recently. I was with my parents on a vacation in North Carolina and we had the two kids and it was kind of wild. We didn't get to do a lot of things because we were busy with the kids. And my mom challenged me actually. She's like, "I challenge you to get a babysitter every single Saturday." She said it would be life...

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
And it was this moment where as a financial adult in a different stage, I was very frugal. I wanted to reach these money goals. There's this point where it's like, "When do I want to invest in something that will really benefit my happiness?" And it's not a cheap thing to get a babysitter every single week. But it's something that we did, an investment we made, and it has been so incredible. So that was a conscious lifestyle upgrade I made versus allowing like expenses to creep in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. All right. You also talk about the difference between a crisis fund, a rainy day fund, and a walk away fund. Talk about that.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. So I would define crisis fund as like the minimum amount of rainy day fund we need in case of a crisis, something happening. Losing our job, a large health-related expense coming up, we want some cash set aside for that. Rainy day, I would say is a bigger fund than that. It's kind of like our ideal, what we'd want to have set aside. And I walk through in the book how to price it out, how much you want to have in there. But there's like the crisis minimum cash you want to have then the ideal. And then the walk away is actually to protect us in our relationships.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
And this was something that Dasha Kennedy, in my interview with her, talked about. That, especially women, having money set aside in case we need to walk away because in a time where 99% of cases of abuse include financial abuse. And so to have these funds available, without having to wait or put things on credit cards, if you need to get out of a situation is a very powerful thing. And so the walk away fund, she recommended six months of expenses to have, that you just have that cash available in the case you need to walk away.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's really important. Something I experienced when my marriage early in life broke up. I was really happy to have that financial stability. It was really, really important. Okay. The third financial adulting tip is knowing what you need to know, but also what you don't need to know to make things more manageable. This is about living in reality, not aspiration, right?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. And there's just so much financial information, right? There's channels. So many books, articles. I think we can get very overwhelmed in that information overload. And there's always more to learn and new things happening, and it can have us never take action. So knowing what we need to know and kind of filtering out the rest is really key to financial adulting, because then we can take action and take steps to move forward in our financial lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, you definitely can get that like analysis paralysis, I think they call it.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you just can't get anything done. It's almost like when you go to the supermarket and there's just too many choices. And sometimes it's better to go to a smaller store where there aren't as many options.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. The fourth tip is negotiating. Okay. When you're negotiating, one thing you tell people to do is to document your work along the way. And this goes to preparation, which can kind of be applied to so many different things and organization.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. So I recommend keeping a success log. And this is actually something that happened to me. You have a big success at work or something goes well with the project and you assume you'll always remember that. How could I forget? That went so well. And then you go into your negotiation conversation or your year-end review with your boss or manager and you draw a blank. Like what did I even do over the last six months? What were the results?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
So as you have successes, big and small, I highly recommend documenting them. What went well with a certain team? What was the result for the company? And then when it's time to go into that meeting, you have this laundry list of things that you accomplished. It's also really good for those down days where you're not feeling really great. You can read that list and give yourself a little pep talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also sometimes assume that our bosses know all the stuff that we did. But the truth is we often barely remember. The bosses forget it. They don't know. They're doing their best, but they're worried about their career. They are not taking notes to make sure that they do the absolute best review of you possible. I mean, some might. But generally it's better to have that covered yourself. Okay. I think we're up to five. The fifth financial adulting tip is let's talk about the concept of sinking funds.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
It's called a sinking fund probably because it's a fund that we build up to sink. So the point of it is to spend it. You can use them for all kinds of things. I recommend if there's ever an expense that tends to make your budget feel really tight or out of whack, and it messes up cashflow, and that could be... Travel is a very common sinking fund. A travel or vacation fund or a holiday fund. Or I have one for my dogs, medical bills, in case something big happens that I don't have to stress about money in case she needs something. So sinking funds are... I recommend putting them in an online savings account. Having each one have its own bucket. And transferring money every paycheck, every week, every month. Whatever cadence works for you towards that fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial adulting tip... I think we're up to seven. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. This can apply to so many things. One reason we often don't plan for different goals or for different expenses is because we don't have all the information and we're not sure what it's going to be. Or when we're thinking about goals, especially really long term ones like retirement or paying for our children's education, there's so many variables and we don't know when we're going to die or what our investments will earn or what taxes will be. And so moving towards the goal, generally checking in is so much better than not doing anything because we can't know everything. So I think... And reaching a goal part way versus all the way is so much better than not reaching it at all. So moving towards goals and giving ourselves from grace for this like perfect number we have to reach.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, it's like when you're losing weight. If you try to lose weight and you want to lose 10 pounds and you lose seven, well, you lost seven. So it's okay. I mean, you can still work on the extra three. But you did lose seven, so you probably feel a lot better. All right. I've lost count. So we're on the second to the last one. Okay. Retirement does not have to be associated with age. And you do a nod to the FIRE movement, but it's not just about the FIRE movement, which is the financial independence, retire early. It's about really thinking about what the word retirement means.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
I think the word retirement comes with a lot of different connotations. And that's kind of what I wanted to have people reframe because we often don't feel connected to that goal, especially if you're earlier in your career because you think it is an age. So that's why in the chapter on retirement, I called it work optional, because that's really what it is. We're saving to have enough money to not have to work, to be able to choose to do a different kind of work, to have more flexibility. And that can happen whenever you reach that goal. And I think that makes it a little more exciting and a little more tangible when we're saving up for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it can also be a season of our life that we do that. And then we go back to doing maybe the same thing or maybe something different. And by the way, I do want to acknowledge that in the book, you do this too. That that is a nod to our mutual friend, Tanja Hester. She was on this podcast talking about her book, Work Optional. We can leave a link for that in the show notes, as we like to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, last one. I love this one the best, because it's about investing, the riskiest part. And this is epic that you say this because it's obvious and yet I don't think I've heard anyone say this. The riskiest part of investing is that we are human. I love that, Ashley.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you. It's great to be called epic, you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
It is, but it's everything, because that's what it is. We are human. I mean, I remember the first time I was able to buy into... Not that it's happened so often. But I was able to buy into an IPO. And I thought I really had it emotionally managed because I'd been a journalist for years covering IPOs. And I knew intellectually how it works and how people react and the kind of mistakes people made. And I still was a wreck. I was an emotional wreck when that happened. And I didn't know what to do and it [inaudible 00:13:41]. And so I sold half to take it off the table and then it cratered. So I lost the other half, so I came out even. But let me tell you, I was so human in that moment. Even though I knew intellectually exactly what to do, I was just a wreck.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Yes. And you hear it over and over. Buy low, sell high. Invest for the long term. Don't look at your investments. But it truly is so different when it's happening, when you're in the moment, when you're seeing things on the news and people are saying, "The market will never be the same," or whatever it is. So some of the things to combat that, that we talk about in the book, is like investing for the long term. Not needing the money in the short term. Not looking. Understanding that we don't actually lose or make money until we sell the investment. So that's also helpful to remember, because I think there's always like, "Oh, I made $500 today," or "I lost $5,000 today." And that's not really the case. It's [inaudible 00:14:39] all the case until you actually sell is when it's a realized investment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And don't forget, you will pay taxes, which you also do cover very well in the book. All right, let's wrap this up, my friend. Tell us where we can find out more about you and Financial Adulting, the book?

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
You can find more about the book at financialadultingbook.com. And follow along me and the rest of the things going on at The Fiscal Femme.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Ashley Feinstein Gerstley:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know they say save the best for last. But my favorite tip was actually the first one about lifestyle upgrade as opposed to lifestyle creep. As we can see from all that is going on in the world, from COVID to war, it is important to remember that while we want to be thoughtful about planning for the future, we must live our lives in the present as well. And be so appreciative of all that we have and we should never take for granted, including our health and being able to live in a peaceful country. Nothing is guaranteed.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please be in touch with me. I would love to hear from all of you, what resonated with you about my interview with Ashley? You can DM me on Instagram, @bobbirebell1. And also, be in touch by being part of my newsletter. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, to sign up for that. Make sure to check out Ashley's book as I mentioned, Financial Adulting. And thank you so much to Ashley Feinstein Gerstley for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Cameron Huddleston is back on the podcast to share how we can help our older loved ones with daily money matters and other financial support- even if we are not prepared. 

Tips on how to protect your parents and grandparents money

• Learn what you can be doing to prepare right now.

• What you should be trying to get our older relatives to do.

• If you find yourself having to help, but you haven’t done any prep work, what can you do to from there.

• How can you be there for those you love, but also maintain your own life?

• Learn about some financial resources that are out there that you can utilize

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Follow Cameron!

• Instagram - @cameronkhuddleston

• Facebook - @CameronHuddlestonMoneyExpert

• Twitter - @CHLebedinsky

• LinkedIn - @cameron-huddleston

• Website - https://cameronhuddleston.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Money Smart. I'm excited to share with all of you and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Cameron Huddleston:
I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea. And someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this

Bobbi Rebell:
Brace yourself, my grownup friends. Most of us are so used to thinking of our parents as our safety net and our support system. There are going to be seasons of our life, maybe for you it has already happened, when we may need to step up, take care of our older loved ones, not just managing their healthcare, but also their money related life stuff. Bills don't just get paid. Someone needs to make sure their lives, their financial lives specifically, are kept running and in order. And I'm going to make sure all of you are prepared if you invest the time to listen to this week's episode, because nothing says grown up like having to take care of your older loved ones, whether it be parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or just special people in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cameron Huddleston is the author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk. She is now the director of education and content for Carefull, that is with two Ls, and she has a lot of great advice and wisdom on this topic to share with us. Here is Cameron Huddleston. Cameron Huddleston. Welcome back to the podcast. You are still very much such a financial grownup. Nice to see you, my friend.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you so much for having me back on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked you to come back on because I want you to talk about something that is really top of mind for so many people. With COVID 19, we've all been more in touch than ever with different special members of our family, often older members of our family, and much more aware of what's going on with them, checking in with them about their health. But also this has opened up an opportunity for new awareness and new discussions and new planning when it comes to money matters for our older loved ones. You, by the way, since we last talked now work with a company that really helped people with that. Tell us what you've been up to give us a little update and a little context on why you're so interested in this topic.

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. Well, of course it's personal for me because my mom had Alzheimer's disease and I was her caregiver for 12 years. Even though I was providing hands on care for about four years, for eight years, I was managing her finances while she was in a memory care facility. In addition to that, I am working for a new company called Carefull with two Ls, and Carefull is the first service that's built specifically to help organize and protect aging adults' daily finances. It's desktop service and a mobile app. You can link it to your bank and your credit of card accounts. And it's going to monitor those accounts 24/7 for common money mistakes, sign of fraud. There's also credit monitoring and personal information monitoring. And so you get alerts when it spots something unusual and it's really a great way to protect your finances as you age, protect them against fraud and protect them against those late payments that you might be accidentally making or not realizing that you're making because there's a cognitive decline issue.

Bobbi Rebell:
We can see each other. We're both nodding. I mean, it happens a lot and it happens a lot in a way that we don't always discover until it's too late. My husband had a friend who found out the friend's parents had literally been scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars. And it was not that recent. And it's hard to even tell whether the parents knew it happened and were embarrassed and didn't want to tell anyone or were not even aware. So it's really important that we stay on top of the finances of those that we love and also that we use the tools that are now available, that weren't available until recently to automate that and have these digital check-ins that we can do.

Bobbi Rebell:
But let's talk more about the broad picture. I mean, we think about, for example, I pay for long term healthcare insurance. So if something happens, my husband and I will have some money that will pay for us to be in a long-term care facility. So we are used to thinking about physical care for older people, but we don't think about having this financial safety net. Tell us more about where to even begin with this if you are someone that has older people in your life that you care about, whether they be relatives or just people that you love.

Cameron Huddleston:
Really, it all begins with conversations. Oftentimes we don't want to broach conversations about money because they seem really awkward, and you might have been raised in a household where your parents told you that it was impolite to talk about money. So the idea of going to your parents and saying, "Hey, mom and dad, I want to discuss your finances with you," can sound really intimidating, but this is where it has to start. These conversations are so important and you need to be having them before there's any sort of healthcare emergency, before there's any sort of financial emergency, because if you wait to have these conversations, at that point, it can be too late. There's not going to be a plan to deal with the emergency. Emotions are going to be running high. And who wants to talk about finances when there is some sort of healthcare emergency? And the bigger issue is that there might not be the legal documents in place that give you right to step in and make financial and healthcare decisions for your parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
What specifically should people be doing in advance to be prepared, one, for the big picture things that you're talking about, and two, for just the daily money matters that they might need to step in and help with?

Cameron Huddleston:
An easy way to kind of get this conversation started and to get information that you need is to ask your parents about what if scenarios. We're still in a pandemic, right? And so what if, mom or dad, you end up getting COVID and you're in the hospital and you can't pay your bills for a week or for two weeks while you're in the hospital or longer? What do I need to know about making sure as bills get paid? Asking about these sort of what if scenarios is a very easy and natural way to start the conversation.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if we get the pushback? Because that does happen a lot. I have older relatives in my family that will not talk about their money. It is no one else's business. I don't know why, but it happens. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Cameron Huddleston:
You are not alone. It does happen. You know, fortunately I've heard that most parents are willing, but of course not all. And when you get pushed back, a couple things that you can try. If your parents or aging loved ones don't want to tell you information, maybe they would be willing to write it down. That allows them to maintain control over the information. So say, "Look, I get it. It's awkward. And you probably don't think it's any of my business right now. And really it isn't right now, but it might be some day. And so when that time comes, it would be nice if I had a list that I could go to of your accounts and how to access those accounts and what bills you pay and how they're paid and where the estate planning documents are and where the insurance policies are. Make this list for me, please. Put it someplace safe and tell me how to access it." If they are not willing to listen to you, they might listen to a third party. Maybe you reach out to their accountant, their financial advisor, their doctor, even.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about if you're in a situation where you do need to step in and you do not have this information? Where can you get it? What resources are out there?

Cameron Huddleston:
So you're going to have to play detective, most likely. And the key thing is, first of all, to find out what sort of estate planning documents do they have? Have they named you or someone else in your family power of attorney to make financial decisions for them? You cannot talk to your parents' bank, their insurance companies, their credit card companies, unless you have been named power of attorney and you have that document. So you go to your parents' house and you check the desk drawers, you check the filing cabinet if there's a filing cabinet, you check the closets and you search for these estate planning documents. Maybe they have a home safe. Maybe you know who their attorney is. And so you call up the attorney and say, "Hey, do you know if mom has named a power of attorney? Do you know who that person is? Do you have any idea where that document might be?"

Cameron Huddleston:
Because typically attorneys are not going to hang on to these documents in their office. And so you start there and maybe you don't know this information from your mom, but maybe your mom has happened to say something to your aunt and your aunt knows, "Oh yeah, I know she did that a long time ago and it's in the home safe. And here's the combination. She happened to give it to me." So you play detective. That's where you start. And then you're going to have to go through the may to figure out what sort of bills are paid. If you have any way to access their computer, for example, and you can check emails to see what sort of statements that they're getting electronically.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are some of the red flags to know that you should get proactively involved, even if they're not in the sort of distress situation that we were alluding to earlier?

Cameron Huddleston:
Well, here's something interesting Bobbi, the researchers at John's Hopkins found that those with Alzheimer's disease and related dementias show a pattern of missed and late payments up to six years before there's ever a diagnosis. So your parent, your aging loved one, could be making all sorts of money mistakes before you even start to see really obvious signs of memory loss. Obviously at that point, the damage could be severe. I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea, and someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No one had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they had the money to pay it. He just wasn't paying it.

Cameron Huddleston:
Right. He had just forgotten to send in the payments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Cameron Huddleston:
So here are some of the signs that you can look for that your parent might be experiencing cognitive decline, and if there's cognitive decline, that means their financial decision making ability is already impaired. So obvious ones like notices for late payments, collection notices that you see sitting on the dining room table, parents not paying the bills. And if you know they've got money to pay the bills, there's something going on here. If you go out to dinner with mom and dad and they're offering to pay for dinner, but then they can't figure out how to compute a tip or they can't figure out, let's say the check is $50 and they're pulling out a 20 thinking that's going to cover. So there's obviously signs with math and the inability to handle just simple mathematical tasks.

Cameron Huddleston:
Other mathematical errors that might be obvious. If they're writing a check and they can't remember how to fill out that check or how to put the date on the check, this is a sign that something's going on. But then also if you're going to your parents' house and you notice that it was once always tidy and organized, and now it seems to be disorganized, there's plates in this sink, there's just piles of clothes everywhere and you know that they're still physically capable of handling those tasks, it could be a sign that there is cognitive decline because familiar tasks become more difficult to complete. If there are sticky notes or reminder notes all over the house, and they're telling and your parents how to do things that seem really obvious, like how to turn on the cable TV, this is a sign that something's going on and you shouldn't ignore these signs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm just sitting here absorbing all of this. Anything else I should have asked you?

Cameron Huddleston:
Here's one more thing to look out for. If your parents mail is full of charitable donation requests, or a lot of those sweepstakes entry forms, if they're getting a lot of those, that's a good sign that your parents have already been making donations. Their names are on lists and charities and other organizations are reaching out to them. And if you see a lot of those gifts that charities send, like a blanket, the little stickers that you can put on your envelopes with your address, calendars, if there are lots of those gifts that are showing up in your parents' house, that also means that they are making donations. Now, if you know your parents are givers naturally, but they seem to be giving a lot more money, that's a sign that their financial decision making ability is impaired potentially. And again, you've got to get involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You have to just not always assume everything is okay just because they tell you that on your weekly phone call. You need to get involved, ask the right questions and show up in person sometimes, or make sure that if you have siblings or other relatives that can come in and do things, like physically look at the mail, because a lot of older people do still get physical bills. That's a really important thing to be able to check and make sure you guys put together a safety net as grownups to take care of the people that you love in your life. Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where of people learn more about what you're off to and about Carefull?

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. So you can find out more about me at CameronHuddleston.com and you can learn about Carefull at GetCarefull.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really appreciate Cameron being so candid about her own life. It's tough. It's also stuff that we need to hear and we need to hear real examples of how this impacts our lives. Hopefully we've inspired some of you to take action and have those uncomfortable conversations, and maybe they won't be as cringey as we fear. And by the way, this is something that I struggle with. It's not always successful. So you may have to kind of regroup, give it a little bit of time and just try again. It's not easy. I would love to hear your tips on getting past awkward conversations when it comes to talking to parents. And then also, when it comes to talking to younger generations about money stuff. That is a lot of the focus of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I am both excited and really, really nervous, actually really nervous for it finally, coming out. Years in the making.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of free giveaways to get people to pre-order. I'm putting my time, and yes, money instead into this podcast and my newsletter, which remain free for all of you. And I really want to keep my focus on keeping those two things the highest quality that I possibly can and not being distracted. So that's what I'm doing. So what I ask all of you in return is that you help me get the word out by pre-ordering the book and also encouraging others that you think might like it to do so as well. You can learn more about the book on my website, BobbiRebell.com/LaunchingFinancialGrownups. And by the way, you can also sign up for my free newsletter there as well on the website. Big thanks as always to my dear friend, Cameron Huddleston, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

There’s nothing grownup about having bad debt. Marcus Garrett joins us to share how he got into debt, how his parents helped him become a financial grownup,  and his 4 step strategy to become debt free. 

4 Steps to Become D.E.B.T. Free

• Define the problem

• Establish a plan

• Build a budget

• Trust the process
  
  
  

---

Follow Marcus!

• Instagram - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Facebook - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Twitter - @TheMarcusGarret

• LinkedIn - @themarcusgarrett

• YouTube - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Website - www.themarcusgarrett.com

• Marcus’ book - D.E.B.T. Free or Die Trying

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us and, of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Marcus Garrett:
I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life. They sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A lot of us spent, well, more money than we expected in November and December. Oh, high inflation. Yeah. Things got a lot more expensive, and they still are. And so we set resolutions in January. But here we are, it's February. And I kind of feel like this is the month of the reality check. So we were so determined in January to reach our goals. We started out so strong, but then each day and each week passes and here we are, it is February. Marcus Garrett is an award-winning freelance money writer. He is the podcast host of the Marcus Garrett Show and the author of Debt Free or Die Trying. You have seen him all over the media, including CBS News and USA Today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked him to swing by and kind of help us out with the debt issues that we may be experiencing. Or if not you, maybe some friends that want to help out that may be in a little bit over their head. Marcus has an incredible backstory that he shares with me that I think you guys are going to really find compelling. And then we get into some very specific tips about how to get out of debt. Here is Marcus Garrett. Hey, Marcus Garrett. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Marcus Garrett:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I brought you on to talk about your strategy for debt payoff. This is something near and dear to my heart because it's something that we have a lot of money shame about. I know I've had moments in my life when I have had debt and certainly not talked about it. I'm fortunate to have come out of them at this point and be in a much healthier position. But it's something that we all have, or at least a lot of us have experienced and can relate to and a lot of us don't talk about, certainly at the time. Tell us briefly about your experience, because that's a lot of what's brought you to where you are these days.

Marcus Garrett:
I got $26,000 in debt in 72 hours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch.

Marcus Garrett:
It all started with a yo-yo. I was 18-years-old walking through the campus like many, millennial flashbacks. I should have hit hashtag trigger warning. And I went to the table where they had the credit cards and they had the swag to choose for. I chose a yo-yo. I signed up for $9,000 credit card at the time. I didn't know it was $9,000. It was a Discover card if I remember correctly. Then I got three more credit cards, graduated school with $9,000 in debt. And then I got a consolidation loan, which was supposed to consolidate in all one low monthly payment, as we all know. I took that consolidation loan, bought a car, bought some rims, I bought a $3,000 TV. I'm very specific about that because people can't wrap their head around the TV used to be $3,000. But that's just a reflection of how old I am.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can still get a TV for $3,000 or more, trust me.

Marcus Garrett:
But not a 42-inch TV.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, no.

Marcus Garrett:
I got a 70-inch TV this year for $300. So I ran out and buy a bunch of stuff that I don't need and didn't appreciate the value. And then I wrote a book about it, $30,000 in debt. It took me seven years to pay off that yo-yo.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to clarify. So you rang up $9,000 in debt, and then when you got the consolidation loan, you were supposed to use that money to pay off the debt, but you did not.

Marcus Garrett:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
You then use that too for more debt.

Marcus Garrett:
I bought more debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so that we followed more debt correctly.

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You got more debt. Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
I used debt to buy more debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was going on there? I mean, without getting too detailed, just because I have this book launching, Financial Grownups, coming out. What happened in sort of your childhood or early adulthood that you had no idea this was happening?

Marcus Garrett:
I'd say kind of reminds me of the mind of [inaudible 00:05:05] is just the mind of a 22-year-old. Now that I'm on the wrong side of 30, I can barely wrap my head around that I did that. It almost seems like a dream that I watched on Netflix or something like that. It didn't actually happen to me. But I was really just ignorant of how money worked. It was really that simple. I really thought it was free money. I got a credit card, I thought I was getting over all the banks. I'm like, "Can you believe how low this minimum payment is? These guys, they don't know what they're doing. They're just giving me money." And then when I got the consolidation loan, I truly believed that they would pay off the credit card for me and that I would just make this new monthly payment.

Marcus Garrett:
And they sent a 22-year-old, I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life, they sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly." And I mean, I don't know how 22-year-olds are today. Now when I talk to kids, I feel they are more advanced that they have more information available to them, but they're still young-minded. I was just young-minded and I didn't have information available to me. But what I did have was a blank $10,000 check.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And were there any stakeholder, financial stakeholders, in your life that were influencing you? Who was influencing you? I mean, were you getting information from parents or other adults in your life, from the school, or were your influences just your peer group who maybe were getting the same thing?

Marcus Garrett:
I don't want to discount the role that my parents played because my parents are actually very good with money, but they've stumbled into it. They're just very cheap. And they've done really well for themselves. They're just your traditional savers, and they just save consistently. They're they're now both retired. My parents practiced FIRE and didn't even know what FIRE was. So they both retired early and they're currently retired now 20 years in. They were both retired in their fifties. But at the same time, which is weird, they were doing that as my parents, but not as my peers or my friends, which answers the other part of your question. We didn't really talk about money in the household. They helped me set up a savings account, which I'm very grateful and appreciative of. They showed me how to save and ultimately help buy my first car.

Marcus Garrett:
But we didn't really talk about the why. It wasn't as in-depth as it is today with the personal finance community and all the podcasts. So to pivot to the other side of your question, yes, it was thus other ignorant 22-year-olds just like myself. And what was fascinating is they were always buying stuff and I could never figure out how. I had three jobs and they had no jobs, yet they were always buying stuff. I learned later they were using their loans, their student loans and cash back. I didn't have any student loans. So I was like, "I have to keep up with the Jones's, or in this case, my juniors." I had to keep up with the juniors. And so I was buying it all with credit cards. And I learned too late in life that they were buying all that with debt, a different type of debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think peer pressure is a big thing when it comes to money, especially for young people. And were your parents aware that this credit card debt was building up? Were their conversations about it? Did you get any education from your school?

Marcus Garrett:
None from the school.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
I can say that for a fact. I don't think they knew how big the scope of it was. And I remember one time, I distinctly remember this conversation. By then in Colorado, at the time I had moved to Colorado because I had so much debt, or part of the reason I moved to Colorado was because I had so much debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why Colorado?

Marcus Garrett:
I got a job opportunity that increased my pay 40%. And so by this point in my life, I had to move for money. I had to chase money to pay off all this debt I accumulated. I was 27-years-old. So five years after that, that car and $26,000 experience. So now I'm chasing after more money, because like most people, I think trading time for money is how you solve all your money problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're paying for your past.

Marcus Garrett:
Right. So I went to Colorado. And just having a good conversation, my mom's super proud of me. And it always has been super supportive. She knows how much I make. I mean, I work in the public sector, it's not hard to find. And she was like, "Oh, you must be," frankly, whatever she said, but balling out of control, which would be my terms. That's not what came out of my mom's mouth. I was like, "No, I got $18,000 in credit card debt." And I remember her eyes. My mom's probably never had a $18,000 credit card debt in her entire life. But she was in shock by that. But even that wasn't that big of a deal to me because I knew my friends had $30,000 in debt. And 20 is like, everybody's doing it. It's just I really didn't realize how big of a number it was, because I didn't see it objectively. I just said, "Well, everybody has debt. That's the American way of life."

Bobbi Rebell:
And your mother, did she offer to step in? Did she talk to you? Did she offer solutions? What was her reaction?

Marcus Garrett:
She definitely didn't offer to step in. My parents, they're they're not the salvation type. They're not the helicopter type. They're the, we've done what we can for you and good luck with that type. So she's like, "Oh you got $18,000 of debt. So what you going to do about that?" I asked my parents for money once and it's only because my roommate was late with rent. And I still look upon that day with great lament and pain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they give it to you?

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
They did? Oh good. I could talk to you about this forever, but I want to give our listeners, you got four steps to becoming debt free. And obviously there's more information in your book. Let's go through. So debt free, and they go by D-E-B-T. So the first one is to find the problem.

Marcus Garrett:
Yes. So I tell people, and if they want this plan, they can get it at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. I now give it away for free, because I think it's that important. And the first step is, yes, to find the problem. For me, that's going to annualcreditreport.com and downloading, there you can get your credit report, not your credit score, related but different. And I remember when I had a conversation the second time to get a consolidation loan when I was finally making the proactive and responsible steps to get out of debt, they were asking me basics like what's your credit score? How much debt do you have outlaid?

Marcus Garrett:
I'd had no idea how much debt I even had available to me, assigned to me, my monthly payments. I was just, like most people, I was floating from paycheck to paycheck and making the minimum payment thinking I was doing well or getting by. And so I said I would never put myself in that position again. So step one, I tell people to find the problem. And I found out recently from a recent news interview I did, that's still true. I think it said at least one in three, but I think it was one in five people don't know their credit score or how much debt they have. You kind of just go into this wave of denial and start making the minimum payments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, definitely. So D could also be for denial because I've had moments where I just do not want to open certain envelopes that come in the mail. And now that we do digital, it's even worse because you'd have to proactively log on and see something you may not want to see. But you know what? Guys, I have found it is usually not as bad as you think. And once you look at it, you know what it is, only then can you get a plan. And that brings us to E, which is establish a plan.

Marcus Garrett:
For me I use, it's still available, it's actually the one that I used. It was bankrate.com/calculators with a S. If they have under 70 calculators, I'd be amazed. But it's every calculator that you can think of. Mortgage loan, any way that you can get yourself from debt, I guarantee you Bankrate as it covered. And I use their debt calculator. And I remember I used this for frame of reference. Yahoo, I'm not even sure Google was around. I used yahoo.com to find bankrate.com/calculator. And I printed it out, the PDF. And that was the debt plan that I ultimately put together. And of course, things have been updated since then. There's all kinds of tools.

Marcus Garrett:
But I just tell people the tool doesn't matter. The best system is a system that works. So establish your plan. How are you going to pay down this debt? I think a lot of people are just like, "I want to be debt free." That was probably their new year's resolution. "I want to be debt free." And those goals sound good, but how much does that cost? How many months, how much do you have to pay each month to truly be debt free in that timeframe that you set for yourself? That's the hard part that you're talking about. That's where you're doing the work. So establish a plan, a true plan with a system to become debt free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I totally agree. People will get caught up in the avalanche or the snowball or whatever, all these different things. The truth is, whatever works for you. And I am also a big fan of bankrate.com. All right, then we've got B is for build a budget. Ooh. I hate budgets, Marcus.

Marcus Garrett:
Well, that's good because I think the chapter is you actually don't need a budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
What I say is you need a system. So the first budget is really to say, "Once you've got that, you know how much debt you had, you define. You've established a plan." And now really what I'm saying is build a budget around that plan, because sometimes a plan might say it's $500 a month. If you don't have an extra or cannot find $500 a month, then you've set yourself up to fail. So you've set your plan incorrectly. So it forces you to go back and revisit the plan. And that's why I say budget is actually step number three because it supports what you define and if you have an actual plan that you can follow. It's like a diet. If your diet says cut 2,000 calories, you're probably not going to do that because I think you need 2,000 a day to survive. So it forces you to, is this reasonable? Can I survive on this plan?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Being realistic is so important. And then the last one is trust the process.

Marcus Garrett:
So that's a shout out to my millennials and zennials out there. I'm actually a geriatric millennial, I found out. Those of you 37 and up are with me. But really all that means is the system works. I know for a fact this system cannot fail. And you said the avalanche and the snowball, I've used both of those as well. And in combination I've used a number of different systems that adjusted to my lifestyle as necessary. But once you choose one and you trust the process, truly buy in. That's why the book is called Debt Free or Die Trying. Not debt free until inconvenient, not debt free until I need a new TV. It is Debt Free or Die Trying. There's very little outs other than being out of debt. So hashtag trust the process.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great tips. You have a bunch of other stuff going on this winter going into spring. Tell us what you're up to, Marcus.

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, I've got a lot. I'm currently, and thank you to Apple Podcast, I'm featured in Apple Podcast for black history month in they're hashtag secure the bag category. For the people who are interested in this plan, they can get it downloaded for free at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. And then I have a newsletter of now about 5,000 individuals. I've scaled from 200 to 5,000 in the last 12 months. And every week I send out something informative about getting out of personal finance. And my season three episode focus is from employee to entrepreneur. I just want to see people be great and do well. And it's called The Marcus Garrett Show. But honestly, it's just opportunities for me to have cool conversations with people I would've loved to talk to anyway. And you'll be on an upcoming show actually in the spring in March promoting your book. And then in April, I always do a big push for financial literacy month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well thank you so much. And let's just give your socials and where else people can find out more about you.

Marcus Garrett:
I'm universally branded under The Marcus Garrett. I'm most active now at youtube.com/themarcusgarrett. And then I've always been super active on Instagram. Again, it's themarcusgarrett as well. I have about 10,000 coming close to 11,000 followers there. So I just, once again, share memes. That's the lighter side of me. So the cat makes cameo appearances. The cat gets more views than any video I ever put up. She has a video right now that's like I would describe as viral. So I do reels and memes on instagram.com/themarcusgarrett.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Marcus Garrett:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grownups, I think the thing that I liked most about this interview with Marcus Garrett was hearing about how his parents dealt with his financial ups and downs. For example, when his mom heard that Marcus was $18,000 in debt when he was in his mid twenties. So not even that young, he should have known better by then. She put it to him to find a solution rather than giving him actual money to pay down his debt. That said, in a true clutch situation, when, and this was at a younger time when Marcus's roommate did not pay his rent, probably knowing how hard it was for Marcus to come to his parents for financial help, they were there for their son. It's a fine line. It's a lot of what I talk about in my book, Launching Financial Grownups, because yeah, it's a tricky situation and there's a lot of nuances. Being there for kids, grandkids, and just young adults that care about in your life. But not always with a check or a financial gift as a solution. Sometimes, but usually not. Sometimes just as a support and helping them work through it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are times when, if you can financially help in a specific situation, that is okay too. It's a lot about figuring out what to do when. So this is a perfect segue to ask everyone to pre-order Launching Financial Grownups. A lot of authors do big giveaways. But as you know, I put a lot of time, energy and yes, financial resources into providing this podcast for free. Along with my newsletter that you can sign up for free on my website, bobbirebell.com. I hope you will help me out by pre-ordering Launching Financial Grownups because the early sales, especially pre-orders, really help. And of course, Marcus is terrific. So everyone, please check out The Marcus Garrett Show wherever you enjoy podcasts. And big thanks to Marcus Garrett for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 one on Instagram and bobbirebell on Twitter, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work

Money Tips

1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.

2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.

3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.

---

Follow Jill!

• Instagram - @jilleduffy

• Twitter - @jilleduffy

• Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/

• Jill’s book - The Everything Guide to Remote Work

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?

Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.

Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.

Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.

Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?

Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.

Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.

Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?

Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.

Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.

Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?

Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.

Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?

Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"

Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."

Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?

Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

• Learn how common the Career Blahs

• Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

• Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

• Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

---

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - WhitneyJohnson.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Careers Done Write’s Debra Wheatman shares her best tips for Grownups to level up their careers in the new year. 

Career Tips for 2022

• Write down a list of these things so that you can visualize them.

• Think about what you would like to achieve in the coming year.

• Create a plan for getting there. Perhaps you’re looking to be promoted, switch industries, or change careers altogether.

• Do you feel like you’re too busy to focus on managing your career and your brand?

• Another thing that will help you in the coming year is single-tasking.

• How are you at building relationships?

• Challenge the status quo.

---

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting; t-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Debra Wheatman:
If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as you may have guessed from the opening sound bite, we're going to talk about careers. I have been having a bit of the career blahs lately. I sense a lot of people do as we are entering year three of the pandemic, which was supposed to be staying home 15 days to stop the spread. Yeah. Well it is what it is. So here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I decided we should do a little miniseries of career episodes for financial grownups starting with this week's guest, who's amazing. Her name is Debra Wheatman. She runs a company called Careers done Write, and Write is spelled W-R-I-T-E. Her genius is in the fact that Debra helps people not just figure out what they're good at and what they should be getting paid for, she also helps kind of package it all up so that your best attributes are front and center and help you land that dream job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Highlights of our interview included talking about the mistakes that we make when we're choosing a career. It was interesting because she has a very different perspective from what I think a lot of parents tell their young adult children. She also has a lot to say about the urge to multitask and some their very interesting suggestions there that you are going to want to hear. She also shares her take on the whole work from home thing, how it's evolving, what we should sort of make ourselves do in person maybe, but also some things that may be better off, I don't know, remotely. It's all okay. You'll love to hear what Debra has to say, so here is the interview with Debra Wheatman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Debra Wheatman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a human capital management strategist. Your company, by the way, is called Careers Done Write. What does that mean?

Debra Wheatman:
Well, we're a writing company and we're a branding company. We work with our clients to help them define, manage, maintain, and grow their brands so they can be successful in their careers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so much more relevant than ever with all the changes going on in the workplace. We don't know what is going on for 2022 in terms of how things will evolve with work from home, with working in the gig economy, how companies are evolving. So this is something that everyone needs to pay attention to, especially our grownups. Let's get into your tips for 2022.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing is just to write things down so you can visualize them. That's something we hear a lot, but you have a different spin on it.

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah. If you write things down, you're obviously going to be more inclined to not only remember them because there's a lot going on upstairs, we don't retain information just by saying, "Well, I'm going to do this. I mean, how many times have you said, "I'm going to do this," and then you forget about it. People do that all the time. If you write things down, you're not only more than likely to then commit to getting them done, crossing them off your list, but also that sense of accomplishment that you get when you write them down, when you complete them, and it allows you to move ahead with purpose. I like to say that because that's an important part of job search, it's an important part of your professional, your personal life, and gives you a feeling of accomplishment when you write things down and then you check them off as you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say that you have to think about what you want to achieve in the coming year, but also very specifically create a plan for being there and be specific. Are you looking to be promoted? Are you looking to switch industries? Are you looking to just change careers altogether? And this is an opportune time because so many different industries are open-minded about maybe mentoring somebody and bringing someone into the fold that they might not have looked at before, but now they need people. So this is kind of a good time, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah, this is definitely a job seekers market. If you are in the middle of the opportunity to do something different, something that maybe has driven you in the past or something that you want to get involved in, now might be a good time to do that because there's been a lot of upheaval. And as a result, because it is a job seekers market, you have more of an opportunity to spread your wings, explore new things and do something perhaps that maybe inspires you in a new and different way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, a lot of people listening to this might say, but, but, but, somehow I'm just so busy. When the pandemic started, we were home and we had so much time. We were baking bread. I did that. We were doing all kinds of home projects. We were having little wine, coffee hours, wine happy hours, whatever you might call it, because we suddenly felt like we had so much time, and now I don't know where the time is going. I mean, we're all so busy. So what do you say to people that just say, I feel like I'm so busy, I don't have time to manage my career or my brand?

Debra Wheatman:
I say to that, that you don't not have time to do it. That is a thing that should be a priority for you because your career, your brand, while I like to think that people are altruistic, there's no altruism when it comes to your ability and the need to make money. You have to support yourself. Maybe you have a family, you're beholden to other people. Whatever it is at the end of the day, the ability to make money and have a life that you want to lead, and take a vacation even, is predicated on your ability to make money. You also, at some point in your life, you're going to retire. You're not going to be working well into your 90s. What does that look like for you? If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting that you say that because we also do have this movement, especially stereotyping a little bit, but maybe not too much, especially among young people that really want to follow their passions and do good, and they get told, well, sometimes that's not going to pay as much. It's a delicate balance because people feel like it's the right thing to do to take these sometimes jobs that don't pay as much in money, but pay a lot in feel good, but they're doing themselves a disservice sometimes when they don't prioritize money.

Debra Wheatman:
That is true. I would say there's more than one way to make yourself feel good and get that gratification that you're looking for. Maybe you don't necessarily do it in your "day job". Maybe you volunteer for an organization that is close to your heart, where you have a really strong connection. Instead of looking at it like I have to do work in this particular area, there are other ways that you can actually give back and get that same thing while still making money that supports you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another misconception is that people feel like if they can multitask, they'll get more done. You are against multitasking for sure.

Debra Wheatman:
Multitasking is not always a great thing. I do like to call it single-tasking instead. You should do one thing, try to complete that and do it properly. If you multitask, you're not going to do any of the things that you have on your list in a way that is either completed or satisfactory to you. If you focus on the one thing and get that thing done, it will be done properly. It will be done on time. It will be done according to the specifications that you hold yourself accountable to, and then you can move on to the next task. And that goes back to my earlier point, what you were asking me about prioritizing and making lists. This is why writing things down is important because then you could check it off, and the single task that you completed, victory is yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
The multitasking, you get sucked into it when you work from home. I mean, I definitely have gotten to the like, oh, I should be doing this, but I'm also doing the laundry and I'm also making lunch for my child, and I'm also doing all this because I have to get it all done. It's really dangerous. We really need to get that under control because we don't know if and when we're going back to the office full time, and we have to find ways to kind of settle in and create new ways to work at home, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, absolutely. Of course feeding your child and doing the laundry and cooking dinner so that everybody has something to eat, all of those things are very important, but if you don't finish the one thing that you had to do that you said I'm going to finish this and then I can move on to this next task, that's an interrupt-driven work style. And I know, because I'm sometimes guilty of that. You'll never get any of them done. And you'll find that instead of getting this thing done and then being able to go and make dinner, if you will, neither of those things will be complete. And the thing that you had to get done that was sort of for traditional work, you're going to be doing that at 10 o'clock at night. How are you going to feel about that? Versus getting it done and finishing it and then saying, okay, once I'm finished with this, I'm now going to go do this other thing that I need to accomplish over here.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really hard, but we do have to learn to set those boundaries because it felt temporary at first, but now a lot of us if we're not going to work from home all the time, it's still going to be a part of our life. One of the hard things also about working from home or even in a hybrid environment is building relationships. Can you talk a little bit about your advice for that and how it pertains to sort of up-leveling your career in 2022?

Debra Wheatman:
Sure. Building relationships is difficult in an online world because while you can see people, the connection that you get from being in person is just not the same thing. The other thing is that you're scheduling these meetings, you're scheduling a Zoom call. It seems sort of disingenuous in some way. I'm going to speak to you today. I'm going to see you on Zoom at 4:00 PM. Versus saying, you know what, meet me at the restaurant. We're going to have some coffee, some wine and some dinner and just get together in person. People like to be around other people. This situation in particular has proven challenging for a number of people because of that.

Debra Wheatman:
Now given the situation that we're in, this is a good way to still connect with people and build those bridges as long as you use the time wisely, as long as it's meaningful for you, with the understanding that when it is safe to go back and meet in person, and when it's feasible to do that, we're going to resume those activities because again, people do like to be around other people. And proximity to other people, not just through a screen, it's important. It's good for our mental wellbeing. It's good for our physical wellbeing. To be able to give someone a hug is an important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
The last point I want to bring up, I can't believe this, we're entering year three. Debra, I remember when they said 15 days to stop the spread. Now we're entering the third year of 2022. We have a new status quo. You say challenge the status quo.

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, challenge the status quo. You don't have to continue to do the same things the way you've done them in the past. The pandemic has taught us if nothing else, that life is fleeting. It has taught us that we can work from home. We can do these things successfully. I know a number of people, a number of my clients who are far more efficient, far more effective working from home than they ever were in the office. And their bosses have said, you know what, stay at home. You're doing great. We love having you there. You're so efficient. Continue to do what you're doing. This is working out wonderfully.

Debra Wheatman:
That doesn't mean that you don't want to show up in the office because you want to show up at some point, out of sight, out of mind, and you want to have a little bit of a balance, but if you're effective working from home and that works for you, then you should pursue that path. And the state of the market the way it is today, the jobs they are showing us online, hybrid, fully remote, in-office, so we're having the opportunity to see what that looks like.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and be in touch?

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you. Yes, if people want to learn more, they can find me debra@careersdonewrite.com. That is my email. You can also go to my website, careersdonewrite. And that's like writing; W-R-I-T-E.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. One of my favorite things about getting to know Debra in that interview is that while she had a definite point of view about things like not taking a low paying job to quote, follow your passion and instead, maybe taking a higher paying job and using that to support your passion or support a cause that you really care about. She's totally nonjudgmental, and it's tough to walk that line. So I think it was pretty cool the way that she approached it. By the way, she is working on a book called Help! To Hired, which will help all of us find meaningful work, but in a way that also helps get you to your financial goals. So keep an eye out for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Speaking of books, my book, Launching Financial Grownups, is on presale. You can buy it in all the usual places. If you go to my website, which is bobbirebell.com, you can learn more about it. It is a huge help if you order it in advance because it helps with algorithms, and it lets the places that sell books know that people are interested, and then those places in turn will make the book more discoverable.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of elaborate pre-order giveaways. That would take a lot of time and money and effort and all that kind of stuff, but I'm putting my effort into things like keeping this podcast super high quality and free for all of you, but it is something that takes time and money. I also put a lot of money and time into my newsletter, also free to you. So your support with the book pre-orders is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next two weeks of this career video series are going to be incredible. I have Whitney Johnson. She is huge coming up next. Her new book is called Smart Growth. We're going to be talking with her more directly about those career blogs that I mentioned at the top of this show and how to get motivated again. And then I'm going to be speaking with Jill Duffy. She wrote The Everything Guide to Remote Work. So please make sure you are a subscriber or are following the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. And please tell your friends to do so as well. I really appreciate your support of the podcast as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, big thanks to Debra Wheatman. Check out her blog at Careers Done Write. She also has a great newsletter, so I encourage you to get on her list as well. And truly grateful for her advice to help us all beat financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbierebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for grown up friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Inflation is surging and we are all feeling the pinch from the grocery store to the gas pump and more. Jessi Fearon, author of Getting Good with Money shares her best tips to manage and protect money when prices are on the rise. 

Money Tips

• When it comes to groceries, think about the things that you really need and find find foods, such as cabbage, that can be filler foods.

• This food should be considered “the sidekick instead of the hero" at each meal."

• What you can do with produce to help you save money and cut down on waste.

• Why a Costco membership isn’t for every family.

• Find apps that can help you save money or give you rewards that you can use later.
  

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Follow Jessi!

• Listen to Jessi’s First Episode here

• Instagram - @jessifearon

• Facebook - @JessiFearon

• Twitter - @jessifearon

• Pinterest - @JessiFearon

• YouTube

• Website - https://jessifearon.com/

• Jessi’s book - Getting Good With Money

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. T-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Jessi Fearon:
I'm a huge fan of, I call them fillers. A lot of the foods I grew up eating had a lot of cabbage in them, and cabbage is a fantastic filler because you can put it in tacos, you can put it in pasta or rice dishes or anything and just add it to any dish that you come up with, and it's just a great way of being able to stretch a meal without having to buy a whole bunch of meat and sink your budget that way. You can do it with carrots or other vegetables so just keep on paying attention to the way that you use protein. Make meat the sidekick instead of the hero.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this. Hey, grownups. So if you have bought pretty much anything recently you have probably gotten sticker shock because, yes, prices are soaring, and this past week, we got official confirmation. Inflation at the consumer level is up 7% from a year ago. The most since 1982. Not fun. As if we weren't already dealing with supply chain shortages, it's really hard to bargain hunt when the store shelves are half empty and you can't exactly wait for a sale if you need something because, well, first of all, it's probably not going on sale anyway, and if it did, well, there probably wouldn't be what you need. It's a mess. Anyway, I asked my friend, Jessi Fearon, to come on with some tips for us to battle inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her background is in accounting, but she is also a popular personal finance writer and coach and basically a great consumer advocate. She also has a book out called, Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. And I love that title because these days, with all those higher prices, I feel like we are all losing our mind. So it's a great title for all this bananas inflation going on. Yeah, we're all losing our minds. Anyway, this is the second time that Jesse's been on. I loved our conversation and I know you will too. Make sure to listen to the end. I have some big personal news I'm going to share on the other side. But first, here is Jesse Fearon. Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessi Fearon:
Hi, thank you for having me again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, welcome back. You were here in one of my favorite episodes and we've rerun it, I think, twice because I love it so much. It's about your husband buying fireworks that he was not supposed to be buying. So we'll leave a link to that in the show notes, as they say. But I wanted to have you back because I have, in my hand, your new book, Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. By the time this comes out, it will be available for purchase. So everyone should check it out. Tell us quickly about the book.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, the book details my family's story of becoming financially free. We are a family of five living in Metro Atlanta and we paid off all of our consumer debts as well as our mortgage on a salary of just over $47,000 a year. And so, in Getting Good With Money, I share my family's story as well as I share practical tips to help other families find their own version of financial freedom because personal finance is, in fact, personal and it's going to be different for every single person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And personal finance is very personal, but there's something happening with so many of us that we're all facing these days that is making our lives very complicated and very frustrating and you've agreed to give us some tips about it. And that is inflation. Inflation, I think the last report was that it was up 7% versus a year ago, which is really a shocking number. We haven't seen that in many decades and it has a lot of people freaking out because we're hearing these news reports and then also we are seeing it with our own eyes. My husband went to the supermarket yesterday and he could not believe the prices. And he actually made some very different choices in terms of the things that he purchased. Even though we're not on the tightest budget these days, he just couldn't bring himself to pay the prices that he was seeing. So it's something that we're all facing. So what are your thoughts, first of all, in general, about what's going on with inflation as a money expert?

Jessi Fearon:
I mean, inflation is totally real, so if you think you're going crazy and going, "Man, why can I no longer feed my family on this grocery budget? Why is it so tough to fill up my car? Why does my budget feel so out of whack or things feel so strapped?" A lot of it has to do with inflation. So you're totally not crazy if you're feeling that way. I definitely just want to reiterate that because my husband can't even fill up his truck all the way anymore because the pumps cuts you off at a $100 now. He drives a huge diesel for his construction company and so it actually cuts him off now out because they don't want the pumps to go past Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. It's definitely real and it's affecting all aspects of our life and the grocery store is definitely a huge one.

Jessi Fearon:
I actually just got our groceries today so I saw it there at the grocery store as well. The prices, some have slowly crept up, but others are just quickly increasing. This past weekend, we had my oldest child, he just turned 10, so we had his little birthday party get together with friends, and whenever we do a big birthday party for my kids, I always order Little Caesar's pizzas because they have the $5 pizzas, the basic cheese and pepperoni pizza, but they actually have increased their prices to now $5.55. Inflation is just real and it's everywhere that we look, so if you are feeling that strain on your budget, it's not just you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so what can we be doing?

Jessi Fearon:
Well, the first thing to do is to get real with what you need, especially at the grocery store. As you were saying, your husband and decided not to buy certain things just because he couldn't bring himself to spend the money for those items. And I think that it's just time to get real with what you actually need and to maybe tailor some of those wants, but also to tailor the way that you eat. So I'm a huge fan of, I call them fillers. Growing up, my great grandparents immigrated from Germany, so a lot of the foods I grew up eating had a lot of cabbage in them, and cabbage is a fantastic filler because you can put it in tacos, you can put it in pasta or rice dishes or anything and just add it to any dish that you come up with, and it's just a great way of being able to stretch a meal without having to buy a whole bunch of meat and cook a bunch of meat and sink your budget that way.

Jessi Fearon:
You could do it with carrot or other vegetables. So just keep on paying attention to the way that you use protein. Make meat the sidekick instead of the hero. That will absolutely impact your budget, especially if you're married to a carnivore like me who wants to have all the meats. But make it the sidekick and not the hero. Let go of all the convenience foods, all the snacks and all of those things. I know it's so hard because my kids, they love the snacks as well, but tailor it down with the fresh fruits and the veggies. Those are great snack options to give your kids. And if you go ahead and you wash them when you come home from the grocery store and you chop them up and make them easy for kids to just grab them and go, it really will help stretch your budget and keep you out of those convenience foods and keep you out of some of those foods that are going to see the higher inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
With the produce, it's really hard to gauge how long it's going to last versus the amount of time it takes for your family to eat them. That's a place where you have some ideas.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes, so buy frozen as much as possible. I prefer frozen over canned, but canned is definitely an option there as well. But if you buy frozen vegetables in particular, if you buy them frozen, a lot of times you can buy them with the steamables in the bag, which saves you time as well as it saves you money because it's a very quick and easy way of preparing those vegetables and you don't have to worry about them sitting in your fridge and rotting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, definitely. And there can be a mix. I mean, you can do half and half, but just be careful with how much you have with the fresh fruit that goes bad. And also, you talk about just paying attention to what is going bad. See what your family actually consumes. Because I think sometimes when we buy food, we are aspirational. We think, "Oh, this would be something really good. Our family should be eating this." But then, when the actual meal times come and go, you're not eating the things that you think you should be eating and you're eating different things over and over again. And we don't really always take accurate inventory of what's actually going on.

Jessi Fearon:
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely start paying very close attention to what your family is consuming and what your family is not consuming. If you are constantly throwing out a pack of blueberries every single week because nobody really ate them and they're going bad, well then maybe your family really doesn't like to have blueberries. So maybe that is something that you just buy frozen instead of fresh. Same with any vegetables or any other produce that you notice that is just consistently going bad. If it's consistently going bad, consider either not buying it at all or buying it frozen instead of fresh.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other thing is, when you're in the grocery store these days, or even if you shop online, you see the price, but it's very hard to compare prices when you don't look at the cost per unit. And that's something that I often skip, which I know I shouldn't do, but you just see the big number. You don't always see way you're actually getting. Is that something? I mean, how do we do that? I shouldn't say, how do we do that? But it's a tricky thing the grocery stores are doing to us because we're not really seeing always the price hike.

Jessi Fearon:
Absolutely. I mean, if you get down to the nitty gritty of it and you start looking at, especially with snacks, when that big bag of chips that has the individual chips inside of them, think it's 18 in a pack, I just had to buy it for this party this past weekend, but if you actually paid attention to how much you were paying for each one of those individual chips, it helps you understand what the actual cost of that entire bag really is. And then it helps you make the decision on, would it be cheaper if I just bought the really big bag of chips instead of this bag that has all these other smaller bags in it? And usually the bigger bag of chips is actually going to be cheaper, but not always.

Jessi Fearon:
And it's important to know those kinds of things because, for my family, shopping at Costco, actually, it's not the best option for us because a lot of the stuff that's at Costco we don't consume enough to justify having to pay the membership fee and the price per unit there is too high for some of the items that we do consume where I can actually go to Aldi and buy a whole bunch of them and still save more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such an interesting point because we have these stereotypes in our head that certain stores are going to be the best deal for us, but that's not always true because, again, it circles back to, what are you actually consuming? And we actually let our Costco membership go a couple years ago because, number one, we didn't have storage for a lot of stuff from Costco, but we also weren't going through it. And we also would get sick of things before we would go through it and we were buying things because it was available there that we would not necessarily have bought otherwise. So we didn't find it was the greatest value. I think that's also a good lesson, is to really think about where the best deal for your family is and don't assume it's the same as what this overall belief for everyone around you is. It may be different for you than for the people that you see in your community going. Beyond the grocery store, where else can people save money with inflation affecting prices? What else can people be doing?

Jessi Fearon:
Well, if you do any online shopping, which most people do today, I think more people shop online now than they do going into a store, one of the things that I love to do is I love to use cashback websites. Two of my favorite are Swagbucks and Rakuten. I love using both of those. With Rakuten, you earn actual cashback. With Swagbucks, you earn what's called SBs and you can cash those out for gift cards. But this is a great way of stretching your budget and earning something back on your online purchases in order to help offset some things. And I always love to cash them out for gift cards for little splurge things, taking my kids to Chick-fil-A or, or whatever it may be. And it's just a helpful way of being able to stretch your budget.

Jessi Fearon:
And one that's not just available online is called Fetch Rewards. It's just playing fetch with a dog, and that is one where you just scan in your receipts. It can be your grocery receipts. It can be your home improvement store receipts. It can be your Amazon receipts. You can scan in any receipt and earn points back on that, that you also can cash out for gift cards.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk in the book about redefining comfort.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes, I definitely think that this one has always been really hard for me. It's hard for me even now, because, especially for us Americans, we have so much available to us. Amazon Prime has made two day shipping the norm and so it's always weird whenever we have to wait a little while for something. And so if we really want to make solid changes to our life, we have to look at the current direction that we're going in and then we have to decide, okay, this is not where I want to be going. I need to change my course, but how do I do that? And it usually involves sacrifice. And so you have to be prepared to just get a little bit uncomfortable to say no to things that maybe you really want to say yes to but you know that if you say no to this you'll be able to say yes to the really big thing that you're actually wanting to build for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
It all comes down to choices. So before we wrap up, tell us a little bit about where people can find out more about you and your new book, Getting Good With Money.

Jessi Fearon:
You can find me online at jessefearon.com and on social media at JesseFearon. And Getting Good With Money is available in all bookstores, including Target.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Jessi Fearon:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did. She's so real and relatable, and Jessi really shared a lot of great specific things that we can all be doing now. Look, I don't know about you, but I tend to do them and then I slack off. So it's good to have a reminder of things. Even if we know we should be doing them, we fall off the wagon sometimes. Now, my big news, this is something I've been working on for years. I've mentioned it from time to time here. So it's not a surprise for regular listeners, but it is now very real. And it sounds funny to say this, but I feel like a book is not real until you actually see it and people can buy it on Amazon. And that is what happened in the last week with my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life By Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book was inspired by my older kids. I have a story that I share on my website about a night in 2018 when it was a big deadline for Roth IRAs and they just wouldn't listen to me. It just gave me so much frustration. So the kids have been really generous in letting me talk about them in the book and share a lot of behind the scenes of what's going on in our family. It's not always so pretty. In fact, the real aha moment came from times like I just mentioned when they just weren't interested and I just kept failing them. I felt like such a failure as a parent because I knew all this stuff, I knew everything on paper, I knew what they should be doing, but I couldn't get them to do it and I really felt that I couldn't do it myself for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, when kids, I'm calling them kids, but when they're of adult age, there's a lot of stuff you can't do for them because they aren't minors. So you have to help them do it themselves to some degree even if you're encouraging them and there to show them what to do. So, anyway, I figured if I was having so much trouble getting my kids to become financial grownups, I probably was not alone. The book was quite an experience. I tapped into an amazing resource of so many parenting and money experts and a lot of psychology going into this, a lot of therapists that helped me to write this book. So I'm really excited to share it with you. It is definitely part psychology and how to deal with the changing brains of older teens and young adults and what is going to work for them versus a little kid, because it is very different.

Bobbi Rebell:
So the book isn't officially out until March, but if you pre-order it, it helps me out so much. Places like Amazon, they use algorithms to decide which books to suggest to people. So if you guys place pre-orders, that's going to be huge because it'll bump it up. And Amazon, by the way, right now it's pretty expensive, but Amazon will adjust the price if it drops it when the book comes out and it almost always does discount the book pretty heavily. So please don't let that stop you from pre-ordering. Launching Financial Grownups, like I said, is on Amazon now, and if you go to my website and click on the Books tab, you can learn more about the book and more about the backstory as well. And, also, there are buttons that you can just press to order it from somewhere else if you don't want to order it from Amazon. For example, if you want to support independent bookstores, we can help link you up there.

Bobbi Rebell:
This topic is so important to pretty much everyone who cares about the phone financial future of members of their family, parents and kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, family, friends. If you have a young person in your life that you care about, this is the book for you. So please tell your friends about the book. As well, I need your help getting the word out and I truly appreciate it. Big thanks to this week's guest, Jesse Fearon, author of Getting Good With Money, for helping us all be financial grownups. Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebellone on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me and, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our Merch Shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Actor Jim Belushi invites viewers to his south Oregon Cannabis farm to learn about his latest business ventures and his passion for the plant’s medicinal healing powers. Bobbi and her husband Neil share why they were mesmerized by this edu-tainment offering from Discovery +. 

A Little About The Show

Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.

Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest.

Follow Neil!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees and, seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Neil Kaufman:
For those of you that love Breaking Bad, and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, my grown-up friends, to the latest installment of our 2021 Financial Grownup Summer Watch Party Series. Okay. You guys know the deal. During COVID, all of us, frankly, not just me, we all had a chance to check out a lot of streaming shows, probably way too many, but there's a lot of undiscovered gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So we are having a Summer Watch Party highlighting some of my personal favorites and some new buzz-worthy shows and, of course, the money tips that we learn from those shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joining me for this episode is a guest I have been trying to get on this podcast since it began, the love of my life and someone I spend way too much time watching streaming TV shows with, Mr. Neil Kaufman, my husband, guys. Welcome, Neil.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you, Bobbi. I am so excited about this episode tonight. I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Well, I'm so impressed because you haven't been on yet. It's been a few years, and you have asked frequently, and I was a little afraid you wouldn't do your homework, but you have piles of paper there. You're actually worried about all the rustling papers because you did your homework today. So everyone's in for a real treat because Neil is taking this very seriously.

Neil Kaufman:
I have OCD. For the listeners, I have OCD, and so I obsess over everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the best way, though, in the best way, and we're definitely going to get the dirt on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this week's show, I made a pun, Neil, because I said dirt, and we're going to talk about farm, get it? It's Growing Belushi, which is a reality TV show on Discovery Plus. It's only a three-episode season so that's definitely something we can all manage to drop in August of 2020. We only discovered this very recently, but it was renewed for a second season already. As is always the case, I got to warn you guys, there are going to be some spoilers here, but it's so worth it. So stay with us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Neil, tell us a little bit about the show.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, I got to tell you for those of you that love Breaking Bad and you love Narcos and Ozark, this will round out your drug genre TV addiction. Growing Belushi stars... He's a favorite actor of mine, Jim Belushi. He invites us into his adventures on his cannabis farm in Eagle Point, Oregon on the banks of the roaring Rogue River. We see him learning on the fly, and sometimes through some hard challenges and failures, about farming and general business operations. And he gets into some difficult situations and he learned some pretty harsh lessons about how much, maybe how not so much his brand or his fame is worth when it comes to selling his cannabis. We get front row seats, and we watch him and his family build their business and bring their products to market, which includes several strains like Captain Jack and the Blues Brothers cannabis brand to dispensary shelves. We also get cannabis one-on-one lessons along the way, which I think they're fascinating.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Jim Belushi, who I think is a good actor, but I'm not a super fan like Neil, but I know who he is. So he refers to himself, he refers to the show, I should say, as edutainment, because during each episode there's sort of these breakouts, kind of like the in the moments that you see on reality shows where he speaks directly to the audience about the cannabis industry and exactly how things work, how things work in the business, but also about the plant and that he's very passionate about the medicinal value of cannabis.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also get, of course, some guest appearances from his celebrity friends, including Dan Akroyd, and that is, of course, giving the show a lot of social media buzz. Their Instagram handle, by the way, @belushisfarm is getting close to a hundred thousand followers as of this recording.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, it's not really a side hustle because it's a real business. I mean, to the point where one of my favorite scenes, there's an intervention and his kid is like, "I'm worried about this business, Dad, because I'm worried"... Not because he's worried about him. He's worried about his inheritance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So, Neil, what is your gut reaction to the show?

Neil Kaufman:
I liked it. I really liked it. It's like watching the profit meets the undercover boss.

Bobbi Rebell:
How many times have you watched it, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
I've seen every episode out there so far, and I've watched them twice.

Bobbi Rebell:
At least twice.

Neil Kaufman:
At least twice so far. I mean, I've only been into it for the last couple of weeks. You got to give me some time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, then I fall asleep during all the shows when I watch it for like the second half, you get a lot of half rewatching as I finished the episode I fell asleep during, which is not an insult to the show. That's actually a compliment to the show that I go back to watching it. I just fall asleep during all this stuff. We know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway. So you liked it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you like about it?

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, funny or not funny, it's kind of interesting. I mean, he has the basic problems that we all face, personnel and HR issues. He's got operational issues. I remember in one episode he killed the entire crop because he clearly lacked a little bit of training in how to raise these plants, well, how much sunlight, how much water and he's learning on the fly. What is value? What's market and brand pricing? He's trying to figure out a pricing plan. And there's also local compliance issue. I remember one episode he had to go and test the THC content and his business, it's very tangible. I think it's very relatable to all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This is sort of a millennial moment. There's a point where he has two family members that are millennial. Well, actually I shouldn't pick on millennials. I'm not going to say what generation they are. They might be Gen Z. We don't know, but they are exhibiting stereotypical behaviors of what people perceive millennials as doing, as in like maybe they feel like they need to do something else one day, instead of working, just because they need to have, what would you call it, just a wellness day? What was going on there?

Neil Kaufman:
They were lazy. I think they were slagging off. I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoken as a Gen X boss, yes.

Neil Kaufman:
That's what I see it as. I mean, personally I would have implemented a fair and balanced staff performance evaluation and maybe an incentive-based bonus plan over there, or...

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, he doesn't have that kind of structure at this point yet. Well, like he goes to sell it and he thinks because he's Jim Belushi, he can sell it for how many times what the product... I mean he just assigned a random value based on his name, which I thought it was very endearing, frankly. I mean, he really played it for laughs so we don't know. Of course, it's a reality show that's somewhat structured. So we don't really know how much is legit and how much is sort of creating storylines, but it was a definite reality check, pun intended, for Mr. Belushi. That just because he's famous doesn't mean people will pay 10 times as much for his product. They'll pay a little more, but maybe not as much more as he thought.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. You know, the market is what it is. He's got to differentiate that brand in the marketplace. And I think if he wants to get a little bit higher price, he's got to show a little bit, maybe higher quality. You know, I take it back to like an analogy back to even Walter White's Blue Magic, it had to prove itself in the marketplace before it got market demand.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a Breaking Bad reference, for anyone that didn't catch that.

Neil Kaufman:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have referenced that right from the get-go. But I mean the point being, I mean, if you're going to sell something that's commoditized, you have to differentiate in some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about the licensing thing, what do you think about that? So there's a whole bit going back to the idea of the money tips and the business lessons from this, there is a storyline that involves him licensing the Blues Brothers brand, which it was not his brand. It was his older brother's brand with Dan Akroyd.

Neil Kaufman:
It's fair, but I think it was actually really, really smart business sense on his behalf. It takes companies so long and they spend years developing and cultivating their brands. And here he is latching onto a brand, using it as an accelerator to the market, I think it was really a smart move on his behalf.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and also it wasn't just handed to him.

Neil Kaufman:
No doubt, but I think that he's been performing with that band for sometime now, stepping in almost like John Goodman steps in every now and then on the Blues Brothers to perform with them. He's part of that. I think it's a whole brand, which he is already a part of.

Bobbi Rebell:
He goes to South America, obsessed with finding the perfect seeds. What do you think?

Neil Kaufman:
Oh my god. I got to tell you, I cringed a little bit of that because it was painful to watch. Not painful to watch because it was... He finds the seeds, he loses the seeds, and he has to find the seeds again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, no. His employee lost the seeds.

Neil Kaufman:
Well, he has to own that. It's his responsibility. It's his company, so he lost the seeds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's a thing. So when you have a company, you hire employees to do things. When the employees don't do their job, ultimately cost the company, right?

Neil Kaufman:
I thought that was a good lesson there. But it was kind of overshadowed by his constant obsession over Pablo Escobar.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, of course, got us into watching Narcos-

Neil Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... which we're now watching.

Neil Kaufman:
I think if he was going to look for a marijuana mogul, if you want to call it that, there's one closer to shore. You've got people like Martha Stewart, who's got a cannabis brand with Snoop Dogg these days.

Neil Kaufman:
I mean, that's how mainstream this stuff has become. Martha can get you high with her products in the morning, and then she can feed your munchies at night with her moist oatmeal cookies to satisfy all your cravings. And by the way, I have to add in it's a genius vertical market product integration. She's got you getting high and then filling the food crave at the end. It's genius.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So what do you see as the big money lessons, the big business lessons? For those of you who don't know, you are a consultant for a living, so you advise people on how to improve their businesses, broadly speaking. That's a way big generalization of what you do, but what would your advice be to Mr. Belushi?

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I gave Neil some questions in advance. This is an on-the-fly question. Let's see how Neil does.

Neil Kaufman:
I have to tell you the one big takeaway I got from looking at the nephew and the other relatives that work there is I think there's a big lesson there, which is never go into business with close friends and family. I think it's just too hard to draw lines, clear lines sometimes. Emotions blur those lines, the logical ones. He knows that this nephew of his is a terrible employee, but he's going to keep him because he's got an emotional attachment. So I think one life lesson here, one huge economic lesson, don't go to business with close friends, because otherwise you can't make those logical decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I mean, do you think that he had a business plan going into this with actual projections of things? I mean, he was way off on pricing of his products, way off.

Neil Kaufman:
I don't know if that was shtick, though, for the camera or really it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe.

Neil Kaufman:
It may have been. But I think overall I have to give the guy, I would say out of the gate from a business perspective, I think I'd give them a B minus. I think he's up there right out of the gate for being new to this space. He has a growing facility, he's in compliance with local laws and regulations. And he has a backup plan when the first crop went poor, and he's diversifying in products like edibles and vapes and the buds. I think he's doing really well for right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, obviously, having a reality TV show is amazing publicity and if they, well, I should say they renewed it. I think we said that earlier, they did renew it for a second season. So clearly that part is going well, and if you go to their website, you will see they have merch for sale. In that sense, he's got a business plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would you do differently if you were there, if you were his business partner?

Neil Kaufman:
I think in advance, I mean, performing some sort of assessment of the types of issues that would come up. Whether or not they're the compliance issues or the strategic pricing issues, I would have put together at least a plan around all of that in advance, kind of architect in advance the issues that he seems to have learned only by mistake along the way. It seems to be he's learning as he's going, as opposed to have planned in advance. It seems to be that he's not executing that plan. He's actually just kind of doing it ad hoc.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next season, we're going to see him putting the product into food. So given that, where do you think he should go with that?

Neil Kaufman:
I like to see him doing some integration, I think, with distributors. So maybe to Whole Foods, those type of organizations that carry CBD products today. I'd like to see how he's going to start almost like a Coca-Cola or anybody else who is bringing a consumer product to market. I like to understand how he's going to be partnering with strategic alliances, like grocery stores, not just dispensaries, but how is he actually getting product broader reach?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I was curious to see, the show is, obviously, focused on just his farm, but this is such a blooming business that I was curious to see who were his rivals out there and to see if there's any sort of gathering of them. There's like a convention for people that are starting up farms and see how he fits in to the industry because I know there's a lot of celebrities that are out there. You mentioned Martha Stewart, but it's definitely something that's very popular, so I'm curious to hear a little bit broader view of the industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Final takeaway, my love.

Neil Kaufman:
Versatility, agility, flexibility. He's an actor. Look what he's doing right now. I mean, he's becoming a mogul in cannabis production. I think the lesson for everybody is every few years you have to reinvent yourself. I mean, what's state-of-the-art today will be aged years from now? They say that the average turn on technology is every two years now. So I think he's demonstrating someone who's thinking outside the box and doing things that he's never done before, which I think is phenomenal. We should all learn from that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I, literally, agree with everything you just said. I'm just going to say gold star for Neil being an amazing guest. I think that you nailed it and maybe you'll come back again. I don't know. Everyone, write in.

Neil Kaufman:
I would say that if Jim Belushi is listening, I want him to know that I did follow him on Instagram today so he have plus one to the numbers and I'm a big fan, both acting and what he's doing today. I think bravo, kudos to him. I think he's doing phenomenal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Like I said, I'm just going to say ditto to that. I love the show. It was totally worth watching. Do not be insulted that I fell asleep, Mr. Belushi, because I do that all the time. But I did wake up and re-watch it over again, which is the ultimate compliment from me, trust me. Definitely worth watching. I can't wait for next season, and maybe we'll reach out to the team over at Growing Belushi and see if we can get him on when the new season comes out. So, come on to the show, Jim.

Neil Kaufman:
I think maybe we should do a product review next time so we should sample and then do a product review. I think that would be appropriate.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We'll figure out what is compliant within the law. I don't know what the law is on that, but maybe we need to take a family field trip to Oregon. I don't know.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that might be an order.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm in. I'm in.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Neil, love of my life, for joining us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone else, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please spread the love. Tell a friend. DM me on Insta @bobbirebell1. Let me know if you want Neil back. Let me know if you want us to try to get Jim Belushi on when his second season of Growing Belushi comes on. And, of course, let me know what else you want to hear on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all. Neil, thanks for helping everyone be financial grownups.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Weil. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The Success Factor author explains how to know what kind of mentor you need, how to look for one in sometimes unexpected places, and the best ways to get top mentors to help you achieve your goals.

Learn Why You Need A Mentor, Where To Find Them, And More!

Learn what the 24/7/30 rule is and how it can help to grow your network.

How to approach someone to be your mentor.

Be open to learning from anyone and at any age. You never know when or where you will run into your next mentor.

Be open and honest with your mentor. If you don’t know how to do something, tell them.

---

Follow Ruth!

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• YouTube

• Website - https://www.ruthgotian.com

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes, we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So, it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. T-shirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He told me at the Olympic Village they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control. He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. I hope everyone is staying healthy and safe these days. Last week, I talked about the use it or lose it strategy and how, as hard as the last two years have been with COVID, when we are ready, we really should try to get on with it when it comes to our goals. Many of us hit pause on a lot of stuff and just sat still for a while. And at a certain point, I think a lot of us have to decide if the pause is a stop and exit or if we are going to hit play again and move forward. And it is with that in mind that I am excited to share my interview with Dr. Ruth Gotian. She is the chief learning officer and assistant professor of education in anesthesiology and former assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell Medicine.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's more. She also writes a fantastic Forbes column that I have been binging on. But I wanted her to come on the podcast because of her new book, The Success Factor. For the book, she talked to super high achievers, Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, top athletes to kind of figure out what they all had in common. One highlight that I'm excited to share with you is what she had to say about mentoring and a very well known doctor that she talked to. I hope you enjoy our chat. Here is Dr. Ruth Gotian. Dr. Ruth Gotian, welcome to the podcast. You are a financial grownup.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I am, I guess.

Bobbi Rebell:
You absolutely are. You are so amazing. I mean, look, I've already introduced you to our listeners, but you studied the mindset and skillset of peak performers including Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, Olympic champions, Dr. Anthony Fauci. We're going to talk about that later. You put it all into a new book called The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I did. For years, and years, and years, I literally got a doctorate in success. I'm not obsessed with it. I want to know how people get it and how the rest of us can attain it and keep it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, one of the things that caught my eye in your work is that you really focus on mentoring. I mean, that's been something that's been a big part of your career. You were the assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell. Now, what role does mentoring play in success?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
All of the extreme high achievers who I've interviewed, and it ranges from, as you said, the Nobel Prize winners, the astronauts, the NBA champions, Olympic champions, CEOs, every single one of them had not one mentor but a team of mentors. So, instead of looking for that one perfect person, they created their version of perfect by surrounding themselves with people who believed in them more than they believed in themselves. And if that's what the astronauts, and the Olympic champions, and the Nobel Prize winners do, why aren't the rest of us doing that?

Bobbi Rebell:
How do we even get started identifying what we need? And especially in the pandemic, which as of now, I mean, there's still a lot of things keeping us from doing those IRL things that used to be a resource. What do we do now given where we are in the world?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I actually think it's easier now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hmm, interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Because, yes, because you're no longer confined to the people who are close to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
You can actually spread your wings and find mentors from all over the world. So, what are some of the ways that we can find mentors when we can't meet face to face? Well, if you ever listen to a podcast, if you ever listen to a lecture or a workshop or a YouTube video, or took a class, or you're in these meetings at work, listen to what is being said, listen to the person who is talking. But, and here's the secret that most people don't do, pay attention to the comments. The people who are attending, whatever it is that you are actually watching and participating in, they have the same ideas, they have the same vision, they have the same hopes and goals. They want to learn from whoever is the presenter. So, you have that commonality.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Now, if they made a comment that really resonated with you, you should reach out to them and say, "You know, Bobbi, I really loved what you said about blah, blah, blah that really resonated with me because of whatever." And then, you start connecting with them on social media and then you start engaging with their posts, and then you can start sharing information with what my friend, Andy Lopata, calls the 24/7/30 rule. Which is, after you meet someone, your first point of contact is 24 hours later, second point of contact is seven days later, and then the third point of contact is 30 days later. Now, at this point, you are no longer a stranger. You've actually communicated with someone, you've been engaging with them, not so much that you're stalking, but engaging with their content. Now, the thing is, you don't ever ask someone to be your mentor, because, "I don't know about you. I think we're all busy, really busy."

Bobbi Rebell:
It feels like another to-do item on my list-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when someone says that to me.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly. It feels like another obligation, doesn't it?

Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
So, don't ask someone to do that because that almost feels like, "Ugh, I got to take on another job." But ask them for their perspective on something, "Can I get your opinion on something? I just wanted to run something by you to make sure I don't have my blinders," we all have 15 minutes for that, don't we? That's actually mentorship. We just didn't give it that label. And once you start doing that, it really helps. And remember, you are not a mentor until the mentee calls you one. It's earned.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very interesting. And it also needs to be not just a one-way relationship, right?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Absolutely. It's definitely two ways. And actually, you can and should be helping your mentor out. And trust me, I don't care how junior you are, there is always something that you can offer the mentor. And you should be giving before you're ever taking, before you ever ask for their help. Always offer to help.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be an example? Because a lot of people may be saying, "Oh, what can I possibly offer?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I'm actually helping a Nobel Prize winner market his book. I'm never going to be a Nobel Prize winner, I'm not even a basic scientist. But here is somebody who is a Nobel Prize winner and he is a brilliant physician scientist, wrote a book, but doesn't know the first thing about marketing. I have a Master's Degree in Business, I know a thing or two about marketing, plus I have my own book, The Success Factor. So, I'm actually help helping him through that. So, here is somebody who's significantly junior, in this case me, helping somebody who's significantly senior to me. Now, the flip side of that, I was once at a conference and I was recruiting students for this program that I used to run.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I don't know if you've ever been recruiting at these conferences, you stand in your booth and you say the same thing over and over and over again, really hoping to sound excited at the 100th time that you've said it. All of a sudden, I see everybody staring at their phone. I realized as we walked into the conference center, there was a big board on easel with what I thought was a symbol of the pound symbol. It actually turned out to the a hashtag and a blue bird. And that's when I first found out about Twitter. And I called somebody, a former student of mine who's a generation and a half younger than me and I said, "Why is everyone staring at the phone? What is all this tweet, tweet, tweet they're talking about?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And that's when I realized that the conversations I was having one on one, I could have one with thousands of people. And they were much more chatty on that platform than they were with me because they might have been intimidated. That night, I went to my hotel room. 11:30 at night, I sat on the floor, opened my first Twitter account, didn't even have a picture, it was just an egg, but that's how I got introduced, how I got trained. It was actually somebody, a generation a half younger than me. So, you never know where this can come from.

Bobbi Rebell:
You never know where this can come from. One of the many things that you do, you have so many different things going on. I am so in awe of everything you do, but I really enjoy your Forbes column. And so, I did see you have a number of them on the topic of mentoring. But I did want to pull a few tips from one of them and encourage everyone to go right on your website, you can go to all of your Forbes articles and get the full thing. But let's do a few highlights there because you have some mentor-related tips of how to be a good mentor. And you've talked about staying engaged in person, virtual, and social. "Deadlines' not recommendations." I thought that-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... was interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah, that's a big one which I repeat quite often. And I'm really excited that we're talking about it because January's National Mentoring Month. So, this whole idea of deadlines are not recommendations, if someone tells you that something is due on January 10th, you don't submit it January 11th. Frankly, if you're submitting it January 10th, it's likely too late because the deadline is the drop dead date. So, you always want to submit it early because you know on that deadline date, the Internet's going to go down, the copier is jammed, there's always a problem. But there are always people who think that those deadlines are flexible. No, they're not. And they're not recommendations. They are firm, very firm. And you always want to, not just meet, meeting is average, you want to exceed. So, you want to submit it early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another tip from the article is, "Be honest." In the context of mentoring, what does that mean?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Don't promise that you can do something that you can't. Don't say that you know how to do something when you can't. Be transparent about what you can and cannot do. Be transparent about what you're hesitant to do, what you're afraid to do, what you're excited to do and why. And I think the more honest you are and more transparent you are, your mentor will be as well. And those are the best kind of relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to leave time to talk about your book. So, I'm going to just tell people to go look at your website, which is just your name. And we'll have links in the show notes, et cetera, to get more of your tips in your Forbes articles. But tell us more about The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
The Success Factor is years of research that I put into setting the most extreme high achievers of our generation, everyone from the former NASA Chief Astronaut Dr. Peggy Whitson, a lot of Nobel Prize winners, Dr. Mike Brown and Dr. Bob Lefkowitz, NBA stars, eight-time NBA champion Steve Kerr, NFL Hall of Famer Curtis Martin, Olympic champions like Scott Hamilton and the most decorated Winter Olympian, Apolo Anton Ohno.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Dr. Anthony Fauci, by the way, what was he like?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yes. He was great. They were all fantastic, very forthcoming. It was interesting I actually interviewed him before the pandemic. I said, "How do you pick which projects to work on?" Because he worked on HIV, Ebola, SARS, right? He said, "I pick something important, not just interesting. Because if it's important, it'll have an impact. And that's why I can't drop my pen at 5:00." And that explains why he's over 80 years old. He could have retired a long time ago, but he's clearly so passionate about what it is that he's doing. And that was the same thing with Dr. Fauci, that was the same thing with the astronauts, that was the same thing with the elite athletes. They have found what it is that they are so passionate about, that they love doing. They can't see themselves not doing it. They would do it for free if they didn't have bills to pay. Right?They loved it so much and that's why they work so hard at it.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And it's not just working the long hours, it's actually working smarter, which also includes rest time which is critical. So, those are the first two and Dr. Fauci was a perfect example of that as well. The third thing that they all had in common was a really strong foundation which they're constantly reinforcing, what they did early in their careers is what they did later in their careers. They don't say, "Oh, I won an NBA championship. I don't need to do lay ups anymore in my warmup." No. Ryan Millar, three-time Olympian, gold medal volleyball player, he told me that the most important thing in volleyball is not how high you can jump, it's ball control. And he told me at the Olympic village, they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do. And then, last but not least, doesn't matter that they have the Nobel, doesn't matter that they have all these fancy degrees, they are constantly learning, constantly trying to get new knowledge. While some of them, like you've heard the billionaires who read for three to eight hours a day, that works for them. But what made them billionaires is not that they read three to eight hours a day, it's that they were open to new knowledge. So, what are some of the other ways that you can get new knowledge? You could read articles, blogs, listen to podcasts such as this one, hopefully I'm sharing good stuff, YouTube, LinkedIn learning. I mean it's endless, the ways that you can learn new things.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is. And by the way, for our listeners, you read something like 70 to 100 books a year. You're reading three at once. So, I'm not going to challenge people to do that, but my challenge for myself is to just read more, maybe two a month. I read about one and a half a month, I would say. And I really enjoy my reading time and I enjoy more and more reading books not on screens. I know you are on every medium, so. But anyway, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people catch up with you and get all of your resources including The Success Factor?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Thank you so much. Yes. The Success Factor is available wherever you love to buy books. And if you want to know where you can find them, you could just go to my website, ruthgotian.com. And to find out where the books are, it's ruthgotian.com/book. And if you get the book by January 24th, you actually get a free bonus of all these different ways that you can approach strangers and start a conversation and not be awkward or weird about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, I need that right away. Okay. It's so hard. Oh, conversation starters. Oh my goodness. All right. Thank you so much.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much to think about. And I definitely want those conversation starter tips. I mean, it's always so awkward. I'm also thinking a lot about what she said on how we shouldn't only think about that person who's up on stage speaking when we attend some kind of conference, it's also the people in the room, even by the way, if that room is virtual. And also, the additional opportunities that this remote world has opened up for all of us to connect in new and sometimes more focused ways. I would love to hear what resonated with you guys. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and I would love to share more grownup resources with you. I'm putting them in my newsletter, which is free. You can sign up for it right on my website, bobbirebell.com, which is also where you get show notes and other resources. Big thanks to The Success Factor author Dr. Ruth Gotian for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Instead of resolutions, and thinking about what we should be doing, let’s block out time to take stock of what we have and then decide: should we use it, or lose it?

2022 is here!
Will you use it or lose it?

• If you have stuff that you aren’t using, and haven’t used in awhile, lose it.

• Those course resources or subscriptions you aren’t using but are still paying for, lose it.

• Take a look at your social media accounts. Focus your time on a couple of platforms and don’t worry about the rest. You can always come back to the others ones later.

• Schedule things out so that you can focus your time on the things you really want to be spending your time on. If you haven’t tried time blocking, I highly suggest you try it out.

---

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Joe Saul-Sehy, along with co-author Emily Guy Birken, is out with his first book. Bobbi puts him on the spot with a fun game of financial free association. Listen to hear how Joe did- and if you would have the same answers. 

Money Tips from Joe’s book

1. Financial Fasting

2. Electricity Jumanji

3. Pretend it’s the 70’s and Do the hustle

4. Understanding the CubE

5. Emily’s love of custom stickers

6. Get Two drinks even with American Express

7. Cancel culture ( as in credit cards)

8. Einstein approved 

9. God Invest the queen

10. Analysis paralysis

11. Quick Draw
    
    

---

Follow Joe!

• Instagram - @stackingbenjaminspodcast

• Facebook - @IStackBenjamins

• Twitter - @AverageJoeMoney

• LinkedIn - @joe-saul-sehy

• YouTube - @stackingbenjamins

• Website - https://joesaulsehy.com and https://www.stackingbenjamins.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never-ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is, it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
My team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup, either," and new colors and designs of our top-selling Generosity line.

Bobbi Rebell:
For the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y, and thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy Holidays, guys.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Do you always make sure you get your money's worth, especially when you paid for something and you feel like it's kind of your revenge reward kind of thing? So for example, and this is something we're going to talk about in the episode, in the interview, if you've earned status on a credit card, are you going to use every single perk and get every possible freebie? Even if it's not something that you necessarily would've wanted, otherwise? I mean, there's no reason not to. Money is funny that way, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Also funny is Joe Saul-Sehy. He is the co-host of the Stacking Benjamin's Podcast and the co-author of Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management, out today, by the way, if you are listening to this episode on the day that it drops. If you've been listening, by the way, to this podcast for a while, you know that name because Joe and I used to have a little podcast together, called Money With Friends, that we put on hold because, well, we both got book deals. So, Joe stopped by to promote his book, and I, of course, took the opportunity to put him on the spot with a little game of financial free association. Joe was kind enough to play along, and you'll get a kick out of this, I promise. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, my friend, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It feels like old days. We're back on together, Bobbi. We got the band back together.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are back on, and typical of me, I'm literally multitasking as we start because I didn't check all your audio stuff, but you're all good. Of course, you are.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And typical of me, I am about 20 minutes late.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is typical of you, yes. Okay. So, we know we are still ourselves, very much so. This is a big occasion. We stopped our mutual podcast because we both, which was called Money With Friends, which was an amazing podcast, and maybe one day it will be revived, but we stopped it because we each got these book deals. So of course, you had to be first. Your book is coming out in late... December 28th. So first of all, congratulations for getting it done.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
No one doubted it at all.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
The first time I tried it, it took 10 years. So as you know, I got a great co-author. Emily Guy Birken kind of helped me get through the process, which was fantastic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Joe, you beat me to the punch. Your book is coming out first. It is called Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. I like to keep you on your toes, so we're going to play a game, and it's called Financial Free Association. What I'm going to do is, I'm going to pull some words and catch phrases out of the book, Stacked, and you're going to tell me a money tip or a money lesson from that phrase. Just so everyone knows, this has not been rehearsed. I am throwing this at Joe, spontaneously. He's doing a little crying on the screen, which you guys can't see, but it's going to be all worth it because I know he's going to come up with some amazing advice from these little catch phrases and words from his book, Stacked, which by the way, again, co-written with Emily Guy Birken, who we have to give all the credit for the book, and Joe is wonderful as the face of the book, promoting it here today with us. All right. So, here we go. Number one, financial fasting.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Financial fasting is when you to take a break, just like when you do a regular fast. You take a break from spending to really see what comes out. What's important to spend money on, and what's not important to spend money on? So when you do a financial fast, you say, "You know what? I'm no longer going to maybe," along with eating, "I'm no longer going to eat at restaurants. I'm no longer going to buy stuff I don't need," outside of, let's say, groceries to live, right? But even before groceries to live, if you're really doing the fast, depending on how big a fast you're doing, you might not buy groceries until you clean everything out of the freezer and the refrigerator. You go through everything before you end the fast. A fast is a way to figure out what's important in your life and what's not, so when you create the real budget, you can design it around those things that are important to you and avoid all the stuff that's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, electricity Jumanji.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
My kids are 26 now, but this is back when they were about eight-years-old, and at that time, bills came in the mail once a month for the utility bill for electricity. So what we did was, we just took out some graph paper, and you could still do this, right, with your monthly... if you get the electronic notice of what your bill is going to be each month. We took out some graph paper, and we played a limbo game. We played Jumanji. It's, how low can you go with this electric bill? And it was awesome because I went from me being the only one who cared.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Guess what the prize was? There was no prize. There was no prize. It was just, let's see if we can do this together and make it a game. How low can we go? Can we beat last month? And just that little bit of motivation, I would be watching a television, and I'd leave the room to go get a snack, and I come back, and my daughter's got the TV off. She's like, "Dad, you left the room. You got to turn the TV off. You're wasting electricity." So, my kids went from not caring at all to caring a lot, and it wasn't through yelling. It was through involving my kids in what the real goal was for the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing that. I'm seeing how I can apply that to my family. It's hard.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to work at it. All right, for number three, we're going to pretend it's the 1970s. Okay. Do the hustle.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had a great interview with a guy that, Bobbi, you know I've had a crush on for a long time, Austin Kleon, who wrote Steal like an Artist, and he's this business person meets artist, and I asked him about side hustles and he said, "You know what? Time away from your job actually informs your job." And he said, "It's when I play guitar that I get great ideas for my business. It's not when I'm in the trenches doing the business. It's when I'm away." He said, "So, I really like side hustles because they kind of inform each other. It keeps you fresh. And, if it's for something small, like I want to pay off this credit card that I screwed up with, or I want to pay for this trip without having it come out of the budget. I want it to be extra, the side hustle can do all of that."

Bobbi Rebell:
Number four, understanding the cube, understanding the cube.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Oh, this is fantastic. I had a mentor tell me this, that whenever you're in a discussion, we all are trying so hard to get whoever we're in this discussion with to understand our point of view, and yet every discussion that we have is a cube. You're sitting, Bobbi, on one side of the cube, and I'm sitting on the other side of the cube, and it's imaginary. My mentor told me, he said, "Whoever sees the other person's side of the cube and looks at it from their point of view, from the other person's point of view, that person will be the first person to really be able to bridge that gap between the two of us." So when you're in any negotiation, and in the book, we talk about it in terms of a salary negotiation, right?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Understand what your boss wants. Your side of the cube is I got a lot of bills. I want more money. Daddy needs new shoes, whatever the thing is, that's what we want, but your boss wants more productivity, wants to understand how they tell their boss to give you a raise. What are you going to do for the department then that you're not doing for them now? Understand the other side. There's a truism that mom has said for a long time, that this goes back to, which is seek first to understand, and then to be understood, and that really is what the cube is all about.

Bobbi Rebell:
This one's a bit of a twist. Custom stickers, as in something Emily wanted. Custom stickers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You pulled for these, man. We get tripped up by credit card debt, and Emily, as a young college student, was like, "You know what? I'm not going for the Frisbee, or the pizza, or the stadium blanket," that they would used to have on campus. As you know, Bobbi, they can't do that anymore. But back in the day, man, a lot of us got in trouble for a free, quote, free Frisbee or a free stadium blanket, and they still offer these things even through the mail now. So, Emily was very proud of herself that she did not get caught up in credit card debt by the usual means.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And then, she got this letter in the mail from a credit card company, and it said that she could get stickers, that she would be able to choose what her credit card looked like on the front, and if you want to get Emily, you just got to offer her stickers, and she's yours. So, Emily ended up in credit card debt, like the rest of us, over custom stickers, which was really to make the bigger point that credit card companies have done so much research on you, and they know what your hot button is, and if they don't, they're going to find it and realize that there's a serious game being played against you when it comes to credit cards. So, you need to play a serious game on your end, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Next, we've got tipsy flying as in two drinks at the airport lounge, two drinks at the airport lounge, Joe, courtesy of American Express?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Two drinks at the... Is this talking about getting the reward cards?

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about the fact that you always get at least two drinks...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when you go to the Amex lounge.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
This is...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you're always a little tipsy on the airplane, Joe, but you got your money's worth. That's the important thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's okay to be a little bit tipsy, as long as you get your money's worth.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Well, no. Actually, the bigger point there was actually that maybe I wrote that wrong, because I didn't want that to be the point. The point, though, was I was a mess with credit cards when I was, like we just talked about with Emily, I was a disaster with credit cards. I had a bunch of credit card debt. I also went for the reward point program when I had no business doing that. I'm paying 25% interest, and I'm thinking, "Yeah, I'm getting these rewards." Well, I'm paying way, way over the amount that I was paying then in interest for the rewards I was getting. I was funding my own quote rewards. Well, now, I'm the opposite.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Now, I have this badass credit card that gets me into the lounges, and I love... It's funny. My son just went to one of the lounges with us. He went as my guest on a flight that we just took, and he's like, "Oh, I've heard about these. I don't really care," and then we went up into the lounge, and 10 minutes in, Bobbi, he's like, "How much did this cost? What is this? Really? I can eat whatever I want over here and..." Yes. You can do all that. You have your own little private area. It's very nice. They take care of you. You're in this calm environment. I now go to the airport, sometimes, 45 minutes early, just so I can have a good meal before my flight, relax a little bit, and to your point, have a couple drinks. But my point is, you play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's stick with the credit card theme here. Beware cancel culture. Beware of cancel culture.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. If you cancel a credit card that's your oldest credit card, that may lower the amount of time that they think that you've had credit. I actually had this horrible credit card from the mid '90s, Bobbi, that I only last year finally canceled. I finally canceled it last year, and it's because I've got plenty other credit. My length of credit's fine without it, so I went ahead and got rid of that. What is interesting, though, because like everybody or like a lot of people, my credit cards also show me my credit score all the time now, which is a cool perk of a lot of cards. When I canceled that card, still went down a couple points. It went from like 820 to 815, and nothing happened, besides the fact that I canceled a credit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wrong.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's stupid.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is what it is. Like a lot of these things, it's wrong. It shouldn't be, but we got to work with what...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... we got to work with.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Know how the game's played.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next up, Einstein-approved.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
There's this phrase that's been attributed to Einstein, which is about compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world. A lot of people say, Einstein said that. Well, Einstein didn't really say that. However, it still made our book because it's so often attributed to him, and we talked about here's this guy who's splitting atoms for fun, doing these crazy things with tweezers and atoms that nobody else can do, and he's bragging, supposedly, about compounding interest, and what is compounding interest? People talk about it different ways.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Here's the way Emily and I talk about it. Your money, when you get interest, it's like your money, Bobbi had a baby, right? And that's interest, but compounding interest is when your money baby has a baby, and then your money grandkid has a baby, and you're in with this $1. You're creating this lineage of compounding interest, so that... I'm as lazy as the next guy, so that I can sit on my butt at home, and I've got my money out there. All my money babies are out there working for me. How great is that? And so, that strategy of building money on your money, that's Einstein-approved.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Last one for the win, analysis paralysis.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Oh, I play board games as you know, Bobbi, and we've got this friend who takes all day to do anything, and it kills the game. That's fine. Killing game nights, okay, but taking so long to make a decision that you miss the opportunity is absolutely horrible, and I have a coach who taught me recently that you should work by the 80% rule, which is if it's 80%, right and the way that you should go, then you got to get moving that way, and I like that because movement, even the wrong movement, teaches you something. If you learn that this was the wrong way to move, it's easy, then, to tweak, right? We'll tweak. We'll either not make the same mistake, or we'll tweak it to be better next time, or we can tweak it this time. Most of the time, movement is not going to hurt you, unless it's second-guessing your strategy. That's the one place where sitting in one place is good, but too many people suffer from... I need more information. I need more information. It's just, I don't want to make a decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true, and so many things just don't happen in life because we just don't act, and I think one thing that I like about Sacked is that it will hopefully inspire lots of people to act. Tell us more about... Wait, I have to say the whole title properly now. We practiced this. Stacked: Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. Did I say it right, Joe?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You did. So when you're pitching the book, I was telling these editors from these different publishing houses. So here's the idea. I'd like to take the Cub Scout Wolf Guide, combined with the Hardy Boys Detective Manual, but make it serious and about money for adults. What do you think? And I thought, they're going to think I'm crazy, and the world's biggest publishing house said, "We're in. That sounds awesome." The book is meant to be very easy at the beginning, because I don't know where you're starting from, but at the end, it goes over some very seriously complex things. We start off with stacking your first Benjamin, and then stacking Benjamins, and then protecting your Benjamins, and then stacking stacks on your stacks of Benjamins. It isn't meant to be read from beginning to end. It's meant to be this guidebook, like I had when I had the Hardy Boys Detective Manual. I'd pick it up and learn how to...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
When my mom touched a doorknob, my brother and I would go over with the tape. Right? We'd make that we got that fingerprint, because you never knew what mom was doing. I wanted people to carry the book around that way. So, it's Stacked. It's out today, which is awesome. We're so excited, and it's available everywhere. Please, if you're going to buy it, buy it from your local bookshop, if at all possible, and we've got lots of links on our site, stackingbenjamins.com/stacked. I'm also going to be going on the road, 42 cities. I'm going to come see Bobbi, and we're going to see different cities. So if you want to follow us and come hang out and nerd out with other like-minded people, see what city is close to you, and come hang out with us in the next three months.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff there to get us set up for the new year. I love the part about Joe making sure to get the most out of those reward cards, because like I talked about in the open, we totally do things that we can get for free, even if we don't actually want them as is often the case with things like free food, or in Joe's case, free alcohol. We just like the idea that it's free, and we don't want to miss that opportunity, even if we don't actually want the thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm curious, what freebies do you guys take, just because they're free and maybe you wouldn't, if you actually were paying for them? Probably a lot, but you kind of feel like you earned it, right? So those kind of things, DM me on Instagram at @BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and I'm going to have some freebies for all of you in the new year, as I get ready to release my book, called Launching Financial Grownups. Get on my newsletter to be the first ones to hear about them. You can sign up by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, Stacked is now out, so get your copy, and get yourself set up for the new year in a really good way. Big thanks to my friend, Joe Saul-Sehy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media. @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and @BobbiRebell on, both, Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Treat yourself to the best grownup advice from podcast favorite Farnoosh Torabi. The So Money host and CNET Editor-at-Large joins Bobbi with a preview of her Page a Day Calendar for the new year- including some surprising advice from GirlBoss Sophia Amoruso.

Money Tips

• Learn from your mistakes so you don’t repeat them

• Rethink retirement

• Envision your goals and be specific
  
  
  

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Follow Farnoosh!

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/farnooshtorabi/

• Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/FarnooshTorabi

• Twitter - https://twitter.com/FARNOOSH

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/farnooshtorabi/

• YouTube -https://www.youtube.com/c/FarnooshTorabiTV

• Website -https://farnoosh.tv/

• Farnoosh’s Page A Day Calendar - So Money Page-A-Day Calendar 2022

  • Receive 20% off when you use the code “SOMONEY” at checkout to

  • If you would like to order in bulk, reach out to Farnoosh directly at Farnoosh@somoney.com for a deeper discount and to have her appear virtually for your event.

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is it's also really hard. I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup, either." And, new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code Holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And, thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And, you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. Hard to believe we are in countdown mode to the year 2022. I hope everyone had a good year this part year. Probably better than 2020, right? Anyway, I want everyone to be set up for success and just a really good year. And, what better way than getting advice for each and every day?

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I've been struggling with this past year has been all the damn screen time. I find myself just wanting to be away from all the glowing screens in my life. So, one thing I got recently was my friend Farnoosh Torabi's new page-a-day calendar. I have it right on my nightstand. It is paper, my friends. It is awesome. I do not have to charge it and it doesn't glow at night, it's just there. The added bonus for all of us is that I was able to get Farnoosh on the podcast, to give us all a proper sneak preview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for the few of you who do not know who Farnoosh Torabi is, in addition to putting together this lovely little calendar that I'm looking at as I record this, Farnoosh is a longtime financial journalist, content creator, bestselling author. She is also the host of the So Money Podcast, which is literally one of the most successful money podcasts ever, with more than 18 million downloads. She recently licensed the podcast to CNET, where she is now the editor at large. With that, let's get to this interview. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, welcome back to the podcast. You're a financial grownup.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Am I, Bobbi? Thank you. That means a lot, coming from you. That's official, I'm a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is official, in this year, two years I guess, we're losing count, where we're looking at screens so much. It can be so overwhelming. You are saving us all for the new year, because you have the ultimate product that we all need and that is a literal old school page-a-day calendar. It's called So Money: A year of managing your money, your life and your dreams. And, what I love most about this is that it is a physical product, which is something you haven't done before.

Farnoosh Torabi:
No. I've done books. I haven't done a book in forever. I have another one coming out in 2023. Yikes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But in the meantime, I've got a couple calendars that you can play with. I have this one for 2022, and then I have one for 2023. This is an opportunity to bring what has been a very virtual experience for people, the podcast and then following me on social, in the form of something really tangible. And, that they can gift.

Farnoosh Torabi:
For fans of the show, occasionally they'll write to me and they'll say, "Are you selling a t-shirt or a mug, or something with the words So Money on it? We want to show and express our fandom." I don't have anything in that world. So then, this is it. This calendar is special and it's one of those things where I find that we often need all the inspiration and reinforcement, and this is something that can sit on your desktop, wherever you work, which is probably home now. Or, you can take it with you, gift it. It's handy. And every day, a new piece of wisdom, often derived from the show and the wonderful guests that we've had, or a lot of them are just my own life philosophies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so we can't go through all 365 days, but I wanted to give some people the highlights of the highlights. So we're going to play, I don't know, we could call it Calendar Roulette, but it's not really that. We're just going to flip through and we're going to have Farnoosh randomly pick a page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, stop.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I just stopped, this is not going to be in order, obviously. June 29th, it's a Wednesday. By the way, this calendar will also let you know what day of the week it is, which I don't know, it's been pretty hard to-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it blends. It definitely blends sometimes, in this work-from-home life that we have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
A short while ago, I had on the founder of Girlboss, Sophia Amoruso, who has become a friend. It's just funny how the podcast ... Do you ever become friends with your guests?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
After they come on the show?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Farnoosh Torabi:
It's not a friend that I ever thought I would have, but when she first came out with the book, which became a New York Times bestseller, I was in awe of her and I tried to get her on the show. She was way too busy for me. And then, I don't know, I just caught her at a good time, she came on the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But at this point, she had experienced a lot of public failure, where-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Isn't there a Netflix show? There was definitely some series about her life, which was awesome.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. It was Charlise Theron produced. Her story is phenomenal. I think she was a college dropout, she was dumpster diving for vintage clothing and all that. And, turned it into an eBay store and earned millions of dollars. And then, turned that into a clothing store called Nasty Gal, and then came up with this Girlboss movement.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Anyhow, Nasty Gal went bankrupt. This was after she was on the cover of Forbes, touted as one of the youngest potential multi-millionaires of our time, self made women. So we talked on the show a lot about that, the ups and the downs, and she was very candid.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So this date, Wednesday the 29th, the title of the wisdom is "Learn From Your Mistakes so That You Don't Repeat Them." It goes on to say that, "Sophia Amoruso is the poster child for a certain type of media backlash. When she started her first business, Nasty Gal, she was a darling of the financial press. Before long, she was routinely being called out for creating less-than-inclusive work environments."

Farnoosh Torabi:
This is true. She got a lot of heat, she almost got canceled.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, a lot of female founders do get.

Farnoosh Torabi:
They get a disproportionate amount of that, for sure.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"The criticism hurt," she told me on my show. "But it was fair," and she took a lot away from it. "It's an important opportunity for everyone to learn," she said, "when they get negative feedback. It doesn't always feel constructive, but there are ways to make it constructive for yourself."

Farnoosh Torabi:
And, there's a lot to say to that. I think for me, what she's really saying there, at least how it's hitting for me, is that in life, there are going to be challenges and you shouldn't be afraid of the feedback. Look, if we were afraid of feedback, would we be doing what we're doing?

Farnoosh Torabi:
It was hard at first, when I was first starting out working in financial news and giving opinions. And of course, with the internet, it's very easy to give feedback. I was getting a lot of nasty feedback, for things that were not even in my control. People didn't like the way I looked, or the way that I sounded, or the fact that they thought I was not qualified. And my boss told me, he said, "Listen, for every negative comment about you that you receive, there's 100 positive comments that weren't created, that weren't reported because people tend to be more negative than positive."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you have a bad experience at a restaurant, you're going to write that review on Yelp. Versus a great experience, you might not. You might tell a friend, but you're not going to publicly put it on Yelp.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Okay, let's do another one.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Okay. Wednesday, September 28th.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Rethink Retirement. The words we use matter."

Farnoosh Torabi:
In this tip I say, "Rather than saving for 'retirement,' which carries potentially negative connotations ... " And also, whose really retiring? Ron Lieber just wrote in the New York Times about the fact that we're all going to have to work longer, let's just face it. Face the music. Now's a good time to rethink your career, if you aren't happy.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So it says, "Rather than saving for retirement, which carries potentially negative connotations, consider saving for your freedom."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know, that's a little scary, too. But okay, go on.

Farnoosh Torabi:
The day in the future when I'll be able to actually call my own shots. This actually, I took this out of the page of NerdWallet's website. But this way, you're not putting away money for a hypothetical life stage you're not sure you'll ever reach. You're saving so that you have flexibility and security when you need it, and that's more enticing.

Farnoosh Torabi:
And if I hard more room, I would probably write that, as you're saving for retirement or whatever you want to call it, to really imagine yourself in that stage of your life. And, actually visualize yourself, what are you doing, what are you wearing, who are you with, where are you hanging out, what does your face look like. They have these studies now, Bobbi-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah, that app.

Farnoosh Torabi:
These simulations where they age you and then they did a test. People who saw their age progressed selves were more likely to save for retirement.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's do one more.

Farnoosh Torabi:
All right, one more. Why don't we do ... What's your birthday?

Bobbi Rebell:
January 3rd.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh!

Bobbi Rebell:
Coming up.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, that takes us right to almost the beginning. Oh, this is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Farnoosh Torabi:
"Envision your goals and be specific. The more details an idea you have of what you want to accomplish this year, the better your chances of actually accomplishing it. Rather than aiming to save more, aim to save $5000 in a high yield savings account by year's end. This gives you a target that you can measure your progress against. And as I always say, goals carry price tags."

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you want to make that sentence even longer and say, "I'm going to save $5000 in a high yield savings account for my daughter's whatever, college," or even something closer, like her tennis camp. Gosh, I'm not there yet. I don't know what tennis camp costs. But, her braces, let's be more practical.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Just the point is, back to that visualization tip, the more you can make real what it is that you're after, one, the more excited you can get. And, the more motivated and consistently you'll save because it's actually this thing, this tangible thing in front of you, as opposed to this abstract, saving just for saving. Decide your why, and then go and try to achieve the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, it has to be something that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited for the next year, with having this physical calendar on my desk. Because like I said, I'm so excited to have something that's not on a screen, and it can inspire me and give me different things to think about. Even if they're just reminders of things I know I should already be thinking about, reminders are really good and they push you to think about what's important to you. So thank you for this calendar. And by the way, it's super affordable, if you are looking for last minute gifts for the holidays.

Farnoosh Torabi:
We have a discount right now, going on. If you go to workman.com and you use the code So Money, you can get 20% off. And, I have a very special offer for anyone who wants to buy multiple copies. Let's say you want to buy 25 or more for your office friends, for your clients, for your extended family. If you want to do that, get in touch with me, I'll get you even a bigger discount. And, I'll show up virtually, for 15, 20 minutes and chat with your book club, your office mates. I've been doing this, so far. It's been fun to make face time with people. But, I'm offering this only until the end of the year, so you've got to get those purchases in and then we can schedule something in the new year.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, if you're interested in that bulk purchase and having me show up, and talk my mouth off in front of your group, it's farnoosh@somoneypodcast.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made some very big changes in your professional direction in the year 2021. Tell us your latest news and what you're up to for 2022. Oh my gosh, 2022.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So much has changed, I'm very excited. I've gone back to my roots of journalism and working in the media biz. And I've joined CNET as editor at large, and will be helping them launch and grow their money vertical. That means writing for them, doing a lot of media for them. We started a YouTube channel, so you go check out YouTube.com/CNETMoney. A newsletter, and the podcast, they're licensing the podcast which means they're helping me grow that, and we'll be integrating some more CNET content into the show.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, it's an opportunity for me to grow. I don't know about you, but the last 20 months, career wise, was a tremendous inflection point, for I think me and millions of Americans. I personally wanted to work with a team again and feel like I could make more of an impact. And of course, the show, as I mentioned at the top, I'm so blessed. The people just keep coming, it's millions of downloads. But, it's been a weird time and I feel like money advice is not just money advice. It's live advice and I think we need it now, more than ever, to help us make big changing decisions around all the things.

Farnoosh Torabi:
CNET's got an incredibly big, engaged audience so it was just a great partnership. And, they're giving me a lot of freedom to grow and try things, things that I would really do on my own. I tried to start a YouTube channel on my own in the pandemic, didn't work. Who knew you couldn't start a YouTube channel, on top of everything else? Raising your kids, teaching them school, going to work, in the same place, 24 hours a day.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm also writing a book, that has nothing and everything to do with money. But, it's really a memoir, big idea, memoir-ish kind of book. Which is a little different for me, because I'm very used to technical writing but it's really making me think and write creatively, about the fears that I grew up with. And, why I don't think that was always such a bad thing. I'm still a very frightened woman, who's very skeptical of a lot of things, but I get stuff done. And, I have to think that there's a connection there, that my fears have actually come out to work in my favor. But at the same time, I think there's also just panic and that's not what we want to have.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So the book is really about how to be smart and emotionally intelligent about the fears that you experience, and recognizing what ones are worth paying attention to and what ones we need to kick to the curb. But, this idea that we need to ignore our fears or run away from our fears, I have a different philosophy. I feel like we should really embrace them in some ways, because I think it can help us to get closer to what we define as success and that's different for everybody.

Farnoosh Torabi:
But, looking forward to finishing that. As you know, it's hellish when you're in the midst of ... I always like having written and I like going to book parties, but this process is like pulling teeth a little bit. But, it's good for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I can't wait to read it. You're such an inspiration. Thank you so much.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview as much as I did. Farnoosh really is the best. Such a generous, lovely person, I love having her on. We barely got into all of the incredible nuggets of wisdom in her calendar, but I am really into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, she is doing another one for 2023, so it's going to keep going on. The great thing is, like I said, paper, no screen. By the way, it's recycled paper so it is eco-friendly, all the good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do not forget to get that discount code that Farnoosh so generously gave us. It's So Money, when you order it on the Workman Publishing Page. You can also, by the way, get that info on my website, in the show notes. It's just my name, bobbirebell.com. Where like I said, you've got show notes, summarizing every episode. Also, full transcripts all there, just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, big almost end of year thank you to Ashley Wall, our producer who puts that together, all of the show notes, so well. She also puts the quote boards that we use on social media into the show notes, so you can see highlights of the interviews from all of our guests.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, if you're wondering what I'm talking about, I post them also, sometimes on Instagram, but pretty much always on Twitter. I'm going to do more Instagram in the new year, so follow me on Instagram. That is Bobbi Rebell and the number one. And also, on Twitter, that's just my name. It's easier, just Bobbi Rebell. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L. Even though I definitely get tired of the screen time, I am going to be on social media much more in the new year, with a lot of great stuff. DM me if you follow me on either platform, so that I know to follow you back and I know your part of our Grownup community.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, get yourself set up for the new year with the So Money page-a-day calendar. You're going to be really happy you did. It's just really calming and I feel like it's a nice thing to wake up to something inspirational in the morning. So big thanks to my friend, Farnoosh Torabi, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes, to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling unmotivated, indifferent and blah about your career (AKA how you make money)? With the great resignation we’re experiencing you are not alone. Unfollow Your Passion Author Terri Trespicio shares her tips on creating a life that matters to you AND  that can also pay your bills.

Money Tips

• Get a job, any job, that pays money.

• Commitments- this is where a lot of people get the wrong idea. 

• Avoid doing something just because other people say you should.

• Think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay.

• Jobs are not all of nothing.

• Don’t be judgy- especially for yourself.

• Explore your off label use.
  

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Follow Terri!

• Instagram - @ttrespicio

• Facebook - @TerriTrespicio

• Twitter - @territ

• LinkedIn - @territrespicio

• Website - https://territrespicio.com

• Terri’s New Book - Unfollow Your Passion

• Terri’s Ted Talk - Stop Searching For Your Passion

• Terri’s Other Ted Talk - It’s About Time We Rethink Happily Ever After

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But, the truth is it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rather than think about the ideal job. I say, think about the life that you want, because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life, the kind of life you want, then you can do other things, you didn't sell out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. Did you always know what you wanted to do for a living? I kind of did. I wanted to be a journalist pretty early on. And while I have been able to do that, and you'll see why this is important, I have been able to get paid pretty well for it. This week's guest has me thinking, "It might have been okay or even pretty good to have tried out some other stuff first. But in my early twenties, I was in such a rush to follow my passion and turn it into a paying job. I mean, look, there was pressure from parents, from teachers, from friends that were doing this to just get started, to be the grownup right away, lock it in, define who you are. Now, again, to be clear, it's worked out pretty well. But looking back, I kind of wish I had known this week's guest back then and with the wisdom that she has now, since we are peers, but she wasn't so sure about what her passion was and that also worked out pretty well for her.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's going to be interesting for you to hear what she has to say. It's pretty epic stuff. Terri Trespicio gave a TED Talk a few years ago. It has racked up close to 8 million views. And by the time this goes out, it could be even more. It is amazing. It is about unfollowing your passion. And now she has a book by that same name, which follows up on that really landmark talk. I mean this talk, I can't even begin to tell you how much it mattered to so many people. So in my interview with Terri, we get into how her winding path to finding her passion actually led to this aha moment. That that is not what it's all about and most important, how we can all use Terri's experiences to take the pressure off, and find out what we actually want to do or confirm, it's okay. Confirm that we're doing what we want to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good too. But to be clear, sometimes it's okay to have a job that's for money to follow your passion. And so it's okay to just kind of work for the money. I mean, not to be so miserable, but you guys get the idea. Anyway, this interview is going to have you taking action and getting excited about your future. I promise you that. You got to hear it from Terri herself. I'm not as good at explaining this as Terri. So let's get to it. Here is Terri Trespicio.

Bobbi Rebell:
Terri Trespicio, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad that you are here. You are well known for your TED talk. Tell us a little bit about that, and then tell us about the book now following the TED Talk called Unfollow Your Passion.

Terri Trespicio:
The TED Talk I gave in 2015, it's called Stop Searching For Your Passion. I gave it and I thought, great. Whoever was there in the audience saw it. And that's probably the last time anyone will. And I was wrong about that. It took off. The thesis is that the question we ask each other and ourselves, whether we should or have found the one thing we should be doing, is not a helpful question. It is incredibly limiting, and it presumes that we're supposed to know what we're doing, and I'm not convinced that any of us does. And so [crosstalk 00:05:05]-

Bobbi Rebell:
I took issue with it-

Terri Trespicio:
... the world changes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... and that's an important point that you bring up in this book that I'm so happy we finally finally have. Okay. So taking that, the book really expands on the idea of the TED Talk about how we balance this whole notion of passion with look, we do need the practical reality that we have to earn money. And we also want to be happy because we spend a lot of time doing the things that earn us money very often. Not always, some of us are fortunate. We don't have to spend a lot of time, but most of us spend a good deal of time at what we like to refer to as work, or things that bring in money.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes, both those things. And the book picks up where the TED Talk leaves off and goes deeper to question all of the ways in which we have assessed career and meaning, and value, and time, especially now, and people are going, "What am I spending my time on? And is it worth it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved the book, and I pulled some of my favorite grownup tips from it to share. So the first one, which goes to what you were just saying, and you were sort of... It's well, the tip is that you should get a job, any job that pays money when you're sort of lost. And this relates back to you soon after you graduated college, going back to what you just said about all this pressure on finding the one thing. You were sort of stuck because you were doing nothing because it wasn't the one thing.

Terri Trespicio:
I would get offers for jobs, and I would turn them down. Low-paying entry-level jobs. And I said, "I can't do that one. I can't do that one." My mom said, "Why, why?" I said, "Because I don't want to do that for my life." And she said, "But you," I said, "But I'll be trapped. If I take it, I'll be stuck there for life." And I don't know, I don't know. I was really in a bad place. She was like, "Listen to me, you have to take a job, any job, and you will figure it out, but you've got to start." And so finally, when I finally said, "Okay, fine." It wasn't a dream job.

Terri Trespicio:
It wasn't meant to be a dream job. It was an executive assistant job at a management consulting company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I knew nothing of what they talked about. I didn't understand it. They were super brilliant people, went to MIT, I was charged with, "Sit there and answer the phone, and make travel arrangements," and do things I didn't know how to do. You'd say, "Well, why would that be some kind of breakthrough job?" Because I had a place to go, and I had a job, salary, benefits, people who waited for me in the morning and called me by name during the day. And I felt like I had a purpose there, which I did until I left. But If you don't let yourself do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, and it was a grown up job. And that's actually the second point, the second tip that I wanted to talk to you about was just that, commitments. People overthink this idea of commitments that they have to commit to that job forever when that's far from the truth. And by the way, the job is not committing to you, you point out too.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh, definitely not. Commitment does not have to be lifelong. Commitment means you're in it right at that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're very candid in the book. For example, you talk about being laid off, and how it just sort of at the moment was so devastating because you felt committed, and it was apparently a one-sided commitment at that moment.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, let's be real. By the time I got laid off from Martha Stewart, in my mind the writing was on a wall a little bit, because my boss had left. And they brought in a new editor-in-chief of that magazine. And that editor-in-chief didn't know me at all. And I thought, "There goes my connection." It just, I had a feeling, but I was also afraid to leave the full-time job. Well, you can't leave a full-time job when you don't have any something else. But by the time it happened, I remember the day before I got laid off, I said, " You know what's funny. I would imagine there might be a chance I could get laid off."

Terri Trespicio:
And it happened the next day, because they were cutting, cutting, cutting. It just, magazines weren't making Martha all the money. And ultimately the magazine work foreclosed a few months later, so that's it. But I didn't feel betrayed, actually. I said, "I need to leave," but it was almost like, "You're going to have to break up with me because I don't know if I'm going to leave." And then they did. And when I knew that commitment ended, I was a little bit fearful, but I knew then that I had to do something. Again, that prompted me to dig in.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third tip that I want to discuss is that you talk about avoiding doing something just because other people say you should. And you give the example of Michelangelo, which I thought was so genius.

Terri Trespicio:
It came out of the work of fiction about his life by Irving Stone, The Agony and the Ecstasy. And there's a moment when Michelangelo just wants to sculpt. He endures drawing or painting. He doesn't love it. He wants to be a sculptor. And he gets an opportunity [crosstalk 00:09:14] in Lorenzo's sculpture-

Bobbi Rebell:
A paid opportunity.

Terri Trespicio:
... Got paid. [crosstalk 00:09:17] paid for being in the sculpture garden. He was very excited about it. And he's like, "This is so great." It was like the equivalent of being a writer at SNL, except you're doing sculpture from marble. And one of his friends says, "Let's get out of here. What if this garden goes down? What if we don't... No one cares about this. Why are we doing this? It's not at the top of my list." And Michelangelo said, "There is no list. This is all I want to do."

Terri Trespicio:
Now that doesn't mean Michelangelo is right, and his friend would've been the next genius sculptor. It wasn't right for that kid. And I believe they were kids at the time. That kid wanted something steady. He said, "Let's get into something that makes some money, like pork. Maybe he went on to be a pork salesman who knows? But Michelangelo said, "No, this is what I'm doing right now." And he didn't say someday, I'm going to be to... Yeah, he was just like, this is all it. This is it. Now he knew, but there's a proof of my point though, Bobbi, because we don't all grow up craving marble. I didn't, I wasn't like I'm going to do this. That's the rare. Most of us are afraid and wanting to do something that makes money. But the idea that you have to make both the answer, that you have to do what you love and make a fortune doing it, is a lot of pressure.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot of things that focus on being in the right mindset, in your book. So the fourth grownup tip is, think about the effect of being paid when you do something for pay, how does being paid make you feel? And I mean, for me, I had a tangent conversation with a friend of mine who had a very high paying job that she didn't love, but she loved the money and she didn't hate the job, but she really liked being paid so much money because it opened up opportunities and she's like, "Yeah, I took the job for the money. And somehow people have trouble with that. But I really liked being paid a high salary."

Terri Trespicio:
But that's the life. Rather than think about the ideal job, I say think about the life that you want. Because if you're getting paid at such a high rate, that it makes your life the kind of life you want, then you can do other things. You didn't sell out. I really hate this idea that you don't have to turn everything you love into a business. First of all, not everyone has to be an entrepreneur, and there's nothing wrong with taking something. You don't win points for being a starving artist. I'm sorry. You just don't. Unless you don't mind someone finding yourself 20 years from now and maybe caring about it, I'd rather enjoy the stuff I'm doing now.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, all right, number five. Jobs are not all or nothing. There's a lot of nuance. We tend to be very literal with jobs.

Terri Trespicio:
This is my problem with the linear thinking around jobs. That were only this job or we're defined by this job. Anyone you can think of who has a job, that that's what they do. I guarantee you, they have lots of other things they love to do too. On one hand, we want the work to inspire us, and we want to be known for doing something wonderful. But who said that the thing you create that's amazing has to be the thing you're getting paid for. I think we don't open up the bandwidth enough to see all of the potential from all the things we can do. This is what I usually say. Bobbi is like, "The world does not owe you a job that suits your dreams and passion." The world does not owe you that it's on you to figure out a way to do something you love that matters to someone else. No one just pays you more because you like it. That is not how it works. It's not how the economy works.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the stories you share in the book that I love is about your sister, who is a very talented singer, but that is not the job for pay that she wanted.

Terri Trespicio:
Right. My sister is an amazing singer. She could have had a chance of making a living as a singer. I don't know that she would've been like Jlo, I just know that she could have made a living singing, and she knew that from an earlier age. And she fought it and said, "No way, no way, no how." And no one understood it. And they still don't. If they hear her sing when she does do for fun. "You're so good. You could have been famous. Why don't you that?"

Terri Trespicio:
And she's like, "Do you understand that if I could have been the most successful you could be as a singer, my life would be singing every day or traveling all the time." She said, "My big goal is to have my own house, to have a couch, to sit on it every night, to watch TV, and have kids and a dog. That is the life I want. You don't get to make a living as a huge recording artist and then never go out and tour or perform." She said, I want to do it when I do it. And if I made singing my life, I would've come to resent it."

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the other themes that you talk about that I really picked up on is don't be judgey, especially of yourself. And I'm referring to, for example, the idea that you were selling jewelry in the suburbs on this MLM, you embraced it, you were good at it. You learned a lot from it. You formed relationships from it. It worked for you at that time.

Terri Trespicio:
I was bad at it at first. And I was like, "Really? I feel weird selling." I was a copywriter. This was not my jam, but I quite frankly needed to earn the money. And I really liked the jewelry. And so I realized liking jewelry, and having a passion for accessorizing does not directly link to a skill in sales. That I had to learn. It was tough, but I was incentivized to learn it. And when I figured out how to make it work for me, it was something I did well at. I didn't do it very long. I think I did this organization for maybe two years, if that, and then I kept those skills in my back pocket. And then when I got laid off and had to work for myself, guess what I pulled out? My skills that I had learned on how to sell. And now I had to sell myself. So nothing is wasted, no job, no opportunity is wasted if you know to take those skills and use them somewhere else to benefit you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right? Because what we're hearing is whether it's the executive assistant job or the job selling jewelry at these parties, these were all things that built up who you are and the skillset that you had. And had you been judgey about them and looked down on them, and not realize the opportunity in them, you would not be where you are today.

Terri Trespicio:
Oh I used to make a joke about earning an MFA in poetry. First of all, it was not a joke. It was a very expensive investment that my family was able to and willing to make for me. So there is a level of privilege right there. You don't need to go get an MFA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you make an argument there of how it would lead to income someday when you were asking them to pay for it?

Terri Trespicio:
I said, "This is what I want to do. I want to be in this program and learn it, and to become better at it. I don't know how it'll directly relate, but it is a Master's degree, and it could really be helpful, and I don't know how. My family is willing to back me on that. Plenty of people wouldn't. And you don't need an MFA to be a writer. However, I used to joke about it later. "Oh, I had an MFA poetry." I was real practical. Well, in fact, today I make my living, a lot of it from writing.

Terri Trespicio:
And what did I do? I apprenticed to study the words, the beats, the lines. I basically consider myself today a corporate poet. I use the skills I studied to create poetry for companies, to make it sing on the page. And that comes from years of study of line beats and forms, and all of that stuff. So I had the weird life that just is uniquely mine, but so did everyone else's. But I hear people dismissing, "Oh, I did that for a while. That was stupid. Oh, I did that. That was dumb." What did you... You learned something. Why would you let it go to waste? There isn't a thing I did that I don't use.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have to look and see if the URL, the corporate poet, is available for you. I feel like that's a good brand for you.

Terri Trespicio:
I don't know if a company wants to invest in a bard.

Bobbi Rebell:
But no, but you call it the corporate poet, which is really what it is. I think that's a very catchy brand-

Terri Trespicio:
You Think?

Bobbi Rebell:
... for someone that does something less. Yes-

Terri Trespicio:
Maybe I'll do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
... I do. The corporate poet. Do it before this airs. All right, the last one. This is my favorite one, because it's just so you. Explore your off label use.

Terri Trespicio:
Yes. This is again taking stock. And I walk people through that in the book. Of all the skills you've learned, no matter if it was paid or unpaid, whether it was what you learned from babysitting or raising your own kids, or running this nonprofit, you don't look at it just by, well, how much did I get paid there? What are the skills that you know? And how can you use them. Off label meaning, yeah, I trained as a poet. So now I know language really well. I also work as a brand advisor, so I know that, but the brand advising work, I can do that for anyone and anything.

Terri Trespicio:
Stop looking at our skills, stop looking at your own skills as tunnel vision, like they only work here. Your whole batch of skills is like a bag of tricks, and you can take it from landscape to landscape. From one group to another. The creativity, everyone's always saying they want to have a creative career, the creativity in a career does not come, whether it's labeled creative. It's how are you using all these different skills to light up different areas of your work and different people? How do you all your different skills help people in ways you might not have thought about? That's the magic. That really, really is.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, and so much great stuff in your book, Unfollow Your Passion, How to Create a Life that Matters to you. And I love on the cover that "to you" is in script and underlined, because that's really the big thing I think that stands out. That it's unique to you and everyone needs to take what matters to them from this book. And there's a lot to take there. Tell us more about the book, what you have planned. I know you're doing a lot of promotion for it. And then how people can get in touch with you and follow you and all the good things.

Terri Trespicio:
Well, the to you, by the way, imagine if it didn't have to you at the bottom, it would just say how to create a life that matters. Who says what matters? That's the key. It doesn't have to matter to anyone else, but you. But people I'll say, more women than men, are concerned that their life isn't serving enough people in enough ways. And as they say, "If you live out what everyone else wants, what are you left with? So my hope for the book is yeah, of course. Yeah. I hope people read it and use it. The thing that I most hope that it will do for people.

Terri Trespicio:
It's not going to tell you what you should pursue in your career. That it's too linear. That's not my job. I would be very arrogant to think I could tell you that, but I would hope that it will open up your thinking and unlock something so that you don't feel chained to one way, one role, one path for being in the world. That is a kind of self-imposed prison. And the sooner we can free ourselves of that and see that we really do get to make things up as we go and our lives can be what we want. The sooner we do that, the freer and the more self-possessed we will be. And isn't that the goal, the goal isn't just happy. The goal is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said, where could people be in touch with you?

Terri Trespicio:
Well, they can find me, I'm on all the things. And I'm the only one with my name. So if you look up me up, you will find me, but if you want to learn more about the book it's at unfollowyourpassion.com, because that's easier to remember than my name, but of course you can find me @territrespicio on Instagram, Terri Trespicio, if you Google it, the Google knows how to correct the spelling, no matter how you do it. And I would love to hear from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Terri Trespicio:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that part about being a corporate poet. She really is. And that story about her sister's incredible singing talent really hits home. It makes so much sense just because you have a talent that others will pay you for. Doesn't mean you have to go sell that talent for a living, If it's not going to give you the life you want. You want to do something that will give you the life that you want. It's also okay to take a job that you don't love. But of course, obviously you don't want to take a job that you hate, but you love the fact that it pays super well and gives you something that you're really into. It gives you the ability to do things that you can afford to do. Jobs don't have to be for fun. They really can be for the money, after all, companies are paying you to do what they need to get done.

Bobbi Rebell:
They are not paying you to fulfill your dreams. If they work together. Great. But if not, well, seriously you are in the majority. Don't sweat it. Enjoy the regular paycheck and health insurance, and so on. I highly encourage everyone to not just check out Terri's book, Unfollow Your Passion, but also to check out some of her other content, she creates so much great stuff and has all of these workshops and other resources, including, but not limited to by the way, her TED Talk. Invest your time in her teachings. All to be found at unfollowyourpassion.com. And big thanks to the wonderful Terri Trespicio for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grown up. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how can do that first connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our Merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Learn from Mindstorms author Kathleen Celmins how to know which ideas are worth monetizing vs. keeping as a hobby, why and how you should record and watch yourself speaking on video, and specific to come up with a business idea that you can monetize.

11 Money Tips to making more money

• Drill down to find your expertise- do this while sleepy- you should be able to smile at every topic when you are done with the list

• It’s the small ideas that make a lot of money

• Not all hobbies and interests are meant to be monetized

• Find your over arching topic, idea and word

• Record yourself on video talking about your ideas- then watch it

• People are willing to pay to solve problems- come up with a list of problems you can solve

• Write a book and step on a stage

• Create digital products

• Every 90 days find a new income stream to build

• How to battle resistance

• Build content on what you own not rent because the rules can change

---

Follow Kathleen!

• Instagram - @kathleencelmins

• Facebook - @kathleencelminsdotcom

• Twitter - @kathleencelmins

• LinkedIn - @kathleencelmins

• Website - https://amplifiednow.com and https://mindstormsbook.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list, that includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And, for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, then we'll gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Kathleen Celmins:
So, what are the problems that you can solve? Not what are the problems you can solve better than anyone else in the world, but what are some of the problems that people come to you with and leave with a resolution?

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebel author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone to a episode of the money tips for financial grown ups podcast. I'm your host, Bobbi Rebell. Let's start today with a question, do you ever stop and think what if I could make money not doing my job, but doing something I love? Really, stop running around and focus. Are you thinking that now? I'm not going to tell you to just go for it. In fact, in many cases, you should not go do what you love for money. That is the advice from this week's grownup guest, Amplify Now's Kathleen Celmins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her new book, MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur has a lot of what to do, but just as importantly has some very big don'ts. And, trust me, I've done the don'ts, it's not good. You got to listen to Kathleen. There were so many incredible nuggets of wisdom in her book we raced through about 11, but we just barely touched the surface. So, don't worry about taking notes. As a reminder, everything is on my website, bobbirebell.com just go to the Podcast tab, show notes, you'll get the full transcript. But meanwhile, listen up. She's really good. Here is Kathleen Celmins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathleen Celmins, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm happy to have you. You've given me so much informal advice over the years about how I can monetize various business ventures of mine. I've taken some of your advice, I probably should take all of your advice because I'd be a lot wealthier by now, but I'm excited that you're going to your wisdom with all of our listeners.

Kathleen Celmins:
Well, thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And to that point, you wrote a book that is going to be very helpful to our listeners called MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur. This book sort of echoes the kinds of things that you do with your in-person clients. So everyone can it at their own pace at home. I have 11 tips that I took away from this book. We're going to try to plow through them as quickly as possible to get them all into the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first one... And, by the way, you say that you should do these a little bit sleepy. I want you to explain why, while you answer the first one, which is that you're going to drill down to find your expertise. So, you're going to do this while you're sleepy. Tell us about that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. Especially this first one, because if you do it first thing in the morning, you think, "Well, I don't even know how I brushed my teeth this morning. Like I don't know anything about anything. I'll never figure it out." But if you take your whole day and you do a bunch throughout the day and you get out of your desk, you get out of your office, you go out into the world, and somebody asks you for advice and you come back and you think, "Well, I did give somebody advice today. And I actually last week I give somebody advice too." By the end of the day, when you're tired is when you are the most creative. It's not when you should balance your checkbook, or do anything mathematic, but it's when you can really think about your ideas.

Kathleen Celmins:
And so, when you're drilling down on your expertise, there's a lot of different ways to come about it. It's what do you love doing? I don't start with that, but what do people ask you about? What are you the go-to expert in at work? What do your friends ask you about? What section of the bookstore or the library do you head toward every time without fail? That's different for everybody. What are the ordinary things that you find yourself explaining frequently that come really easy to you, but you see people taking a bunch of notes on? That's a good starting point for people who think, "Man, there's a lot of money out there to be made. I don't know how to get a piece of it." To me, that's a really good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, like you said, when you're at the end of the day, you sort of have this cumulative knowledge of all the things that you've been saying all day, and maybe some of those ideas will bubble to the top and be top of mind. And, hopefully, you'll smile at all of the topics.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number two, it is the small ideas that make a lot of money. That's kind of counterintuitive because I always think like we're waiting for the big idea. It's the small ideas you say.

Kathleen Celmins:
Maybe small ideas, isn't the right word. But it's the most simple, the thing you could put on a bumper sticker. There's a lot of profound wisdom to be found in the smallest thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number three, not all hobbies and interests are meant to be monetized.

Kathleen Celmins:
That's kind of a note to myself or even all of the entrepreneur friends that I have. My example was a friend of mine asked me to photograph her wedding. And I thought, "Oh, that'd be really fun. I really like her. I love her fiance. I have a fun camera. I need a new light. Okay, whatever. That sounds fun." And I had a great time. We did an engagement session. I did wedding photos and it was really, really fun. And I came home and I thought, "I'm keeping that as a hobby because I don't want to take away the joy of just grabbing my camera and going out and photographing the sunset." If everything can be monetized, and everything, can you have to keep something sacred. And you have to kind of test to see where that line is. It's really hard to do, but it's the sort of thing where you want to keep your beginner's mindset, your amateur's mentality. It helps a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I think that's really important to remember in this age where everyone says, "Follow your passion for your career," but maybe your passion should just be your passion. That's okay too. That's really important to remember that sometimes work can be work depending on it shouldn't be miserable, but it's okay for work to be work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number four, find your overarching topic, idea, and word. So this is sort of an exercise that people go through.

Kathleen Celmins:
Right so in one of the MINDSTORMS, we talk about expertise and you come up with a whole bunch of lists. And then one of the things you do is you highlight, and circle, and underline or whatever the things that show up on more than one list. Those are the kinds of things that you think about. Like you putting your ideas, you're downloading your brain into folders those are the titles on the outside of your folders.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number five, this is something that I think a lot of your students kind of were hesitant about, but it is record yourself on video talking about your idea, and then watch it. The second part being even harder, I think. I have trouble watching myself and I make a living doing video content basically.

Kathleen Celmins:
Me too, and me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Kathleen Celmins:
It is hard. You will find though, where you stumble. And the more you practice, and the more you dig into why you're stumbling, the better you can be about articulating your ideas in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do you say to people that just are so hesitant?

Kathleen Celmins:
Don't publish it anywhere. Don't do it on YouTube Live. Just put it on your phone and watch it yourself. To your same point about not every hobby needs to be monetized, not everything you do on your phone, or on your computer needs to be public.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, the next one is people are willing to pay to solve problems. So, come up with a list of problems you can solve. This, I think, is so important because there's so many products out there and ideas that may sound like a great idea, but if it doesn't solve a problem it's really hard to monetize sometimes.

Kathleen Celmins:
It's also really hard to talk about complicated solutions. And so, the more complex your solution, the more likely you are, as a person, as a business owner, to really talk about the details of the solution. But remembering that people do pay to solve problems period. And that's another way to get at what your expertise is. So, what are the problems that you can solve? Not what are the problems you can solve better than anyone else in the world, but what are some of the problems that people come to you with, and leave with a resolution?

Kathleen Celmins:
The more you can drill down on that, the easier it is to sell. If the problem you're solving is how to look good on your Instagram feed all day, every day. Great. That is a very specific problem you can solve. That's not mine, but...

Bobbi Rebell:
But it does sell. I mean people will absolutely pay to have someone help them with their social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right number seven, very near and dear to my heart and to yours, write a book and step on a stage.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. And those are hard as I have just recently found out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Kathleen Celmins:
But it's a really good way to package up a lot of the things that you know. And writing a book is really challenging for the simple reason that you think you have to distill all of the knowledge you've ever gained into one book. And so, one of the things I say in the book is no, write your first of 10 books. Commit to writing 10 books. Then, that first one is nowhere near the mountain it was when you thought you had to write your odyssey, basically, on that. And stepping on a stage is hard also but, depending on who you are, it's nowhere near as hard as writing a book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I agree with that. And stepping on stage, once you're on stage, it's much easier. It's the moment before you go on that's really the hardest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number eight, create digital products. This is something I have really struggled with. You've urged me to do a video course and I am pushing back on you. I'm a bad student. All right, create digital products. Tell us more about that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah so, let's take the how to look good on your Instagram feed all day, every day. That's a very specific problem that you can solve. And it's probably not one you can just say, "Be yourself and smile more." One of the things you want to do is really show people exactly the step by step process. And, in order to do that, you give them the steps they need. And so, that can take a lot of different forms.

Kathleen Celmins:
Digital courses are really popular right now. Independent one on one coaching can be something you do. In fact, I say to lead with that because if you're coaching somebody through it, take notes, tell them, "First thing you need to do is make sure you have good lighting." Oh, good. Okay so, step one, lighting. So, then you're building out your digital product as you're getting paid to.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number nine, every 90 days find a new income stream to build. So, you're doing that. Are you keeping the old ones, or you're sort of dropping the ones that weren't working every 90 days?

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah so, it totally depends.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Kathleen Celmins:
So 90 days, to me, I think of that meme, the diamond mine, one where the person turns around right before they get the big diamond. You want to make sure you give it a full 90 days and, again, a lot of this is notes to myself, or my past self. That got to a point where I was convinced that people didn't need marketing help at one point, because I had not asked more than a handful of people, if they needed marketing help. And if I had not given it that full 90 days, spoiler alert, they do. Everybody needs marketing. But if you don't give it the full effort, if you don't decide to commit to something for an entire quarter, you're going to give up before you hit that diamond.

Kathleen Celmins:
And, to your point, not every one of them is going to hit. Maybe this market isn't interested in that solution. You're not going to know that until you've had conversations for three months. And so, giving yourself permission to change every three months, but also give yourself permission to stay the course for three months. Because every 90 days sounds, when we're talking about it, sounds like no time at all. But, when you're in the middle of it, feels like forever. The consistency will pay off down the line.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next one is build content on what you own not rent because the rules can change.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yes. So, you only own two things, and you don't even really because you're renewing your domain, but the two things you own are your website content and your email list. Everything else is at the mercy of somebody else's algorithm. And the algorithm is set up to make the people stay on that platform. Not to help individual business owners grow their own businesses on their platform. That's true across the board. So that's true with all social media platforms. It's true with course platforms. It's true with email lists that get your content.

Kathleen Celmins:
So if you have a newsletter, keep it on something that you can always access. If you have a course, make sure you know the rules of who owns your content. For a lot of times, the content is owned by, or kept hostage by the course platform. I have a former client who had a course that was selling really well, and then had six chargebacks in three weeks. And the platform locked her out of the content that she created. She could not communicate with. So, there's a lot of things that seem really easy are really... To me it's like building a house on rented land. "Okay, you can have this house. You live in it as long as you want. I'll never charge you rent," until they do right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Kathleen Celmins:
Then you've got something you did not anticipate.

Bobbi Rebell:
The final thing I want to have you talk about is that commercial success is not passive. There are so many people out there talk about digital courses, on all this passive income tell us the deal.

Kathleen Celmins:
Okay, the only passive income are investments where your money is making money on its money. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like stocks, you're talking about stocks, things like that.

Kathleen Celmins:
Yeah. Anything like that, where you put money in the market and you decide to take it out another time. That's it, that's the long and short of passive income. The rest of it takes a lot of work, which is why it's worth thinking about in terms of, yes, there's so much money to be made on the internet where, at the very beginning of it, you can have your piece of it, but it's not something where you can just set up a sales page and then get your Lamborghini tomorrow.

Bobbi Rebell:
No. And even people talk about real estate is passive income. It's not passive because you're either managing it yourself, dealing with tenants, or whatever, the electricity is out, or you're paying a management company. Someone has to be in charge. And so, therefore it's never passive.

Kathleen Celmins:
Right. Really, honestly, the only passive income is when your money is making money on itself in the stock market in general. So, thinking about that in terms of you're going to build this, you're going to build something, you're going to download ideas from your brain you can't just sit back and wait for something to happen. You got to work toward it and it's worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think your book MINDSTORMS is definitely going to help a lot of people that can't get to you. Personally, reading really feels like you're there with you in a session with your three or four, a tight group going through these exercises. I particularly loved the back half of the book because you're very specific about exactly what to do and the steps to take. It's not one of these sort of just thoughtful books where you're just thinking about things. There's actual steps of specific things that people should be doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where we can find the book and where we can learn more about you and all of your stuff going on, all of your products.

Kathleen Celmins:
Sure. Thank you for saying that the book has its own URL. It's mindstormsbook.com and then I am, myself, on all of my social media. So I'm @KathleenCelmins on Instagram and Twitter, I have a lower presence on Facebook. But my business website is amplified, past tense, now.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that name.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for being here.

Kathleen Celmins:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. This was wonderful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, much great advice from Kathleen. I've gotten a lot, as I said, behind the scenes over the years. And I'm really glad that I was able to share some of her experience, and her guidance with all of you. So, definitely check out the book because there's a lot more there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I related to so much of what we went over, especially the idea of not just speaking on video, I don't have so much trouble speaking on video, but watching myself back, that is really hard for me. It's part of why I'm bad about posting my appearances on TV, and the quotes in the press on my social media. I post a small fraction and I really should be better at that because do get a lot of nice feedback, and support from you guys when I do do that. So, hopefully, I'm sort of manifesting it by staying out loud. Hopefully, some of you will hold me accountable to it and I'll start posting a little bit more of those to share with you guys because they are kind of fun and I do enjoy it when I get the feedback from all of you. So thank you for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thank you also for listening and supporting this podcast. If you're any value out of this, please consider giving back by sharing on social media. Tag me, of course. Or write a review, or even just make sure that you're subscribed. It's now called follow on some platforms. So, this podcast, I do it for you guys. I don't make any money on this podcast. I don't take outside advertisers. I just share with you my Grownup Gear, which I hope you do support grownupgear.com. So, helping me grow the show is really all that I ask in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please make sure to check out Kathleen's book, MINDSTORMS: 25 Exercises to Discover Your Inner Entrepreneur. And, of course, big thanks to Kathleen Celmins for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends, and treating yourself as well. And, most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Want to have more money AND a better planet? Learn what we can control that really matters- and what we are over stressing about when it comes to climate change, waste, carbon offsets, plastic straws and all those questions about which milk to order from Wallet Activist author Tanja Hester. 

Money Tips

• Why you might want to consider joining the sharing economy

• Donating isn’t always a good thing.

• Learn what some alternatives are.

• Beware the DIY trap

• What it means to factor in your own financial well being and how to do that
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear, with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity Line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday. Holiday. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself face up to your food waste, like put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family, or you, create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. Then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eye-opening and that can be really motivating.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. That opening clip, from Tanja Hester, it's a bit much, while it would certainly be very impactful for my family, if we all put our wasted food in a bucket, in our refrigerator for a week, to see just how bad we are with wasting food. We already know that. Let's just be honest. We know we're terrible at it. So, that's part of why I wanted to talk to Tanja. And if her name by the way, sounds familiar, that's because she's been here before talking about her first book, Work Optional. Even though she is technically retired, that's the title of her book, Tanja is so passionate out the topic for her new book, Wallet Activism, that she couldn't help but write at least one more book. Tanja is also a familiar name to many of you because of her successful blog, Our Next Life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now in our interview, Tanja and I talk about everything from the sharing economy on a practical basis, because we say that a lot, but I don't know if we really do it in real life. Also, her unique take on Marie Kondo, when it matters to buy organic or even grass-fed, and also why I'm being ripped off when I get oat milk in my coffee and they charge me more. Apparently, it doesn't really cost more. We're going to learn a lot more from Tanja about kind of how everything fits into the ecosystem. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Wallet Activism, author Tanja Hester.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much for having me back.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you back to talk about your latest project. It's a book and it's a podcast called Wallet Activism: How To Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn And Save, As A Force For Change. This is a follow-up book, well really a separate book, but your second book, to Work Optional, which I really enjoyed and was a huge bestseller. So congratulations and welcome back.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about the money tips that you share in Wallet Activists. The first one has to do with the sharing economy and kind of taking it to a next level. This is not just about sharing an Uber ride and that kind of thing. This is about just don't buy stuff.

Tanja Hester:
Share it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have various specific ways this can actually happen because some people, myself included as I started to read this part of the book, are doing some eye rolls right now.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, you know, I think that the way that our economy and society have gone, they've worked to make everything cheaper, so that we've been trained out of thinking of different ways of acquiring something.

Tanja Hester:
So let's say you're doing a home improvement project and you think, "Oh, I'm going to need a saw for this." You look at Home Depot, it's only $60 to buy a saw and you think, "Oh, that's not bad. I'll just buy it." But then suddenly we've got a situation where we all have a ton of stuff sitting around that's really resource intensive to produce, impossible to recycle, that'll be obsolete after however many years, or it'll just sit in your garage or closet and rust and not be usable after a long time.

Tanja Hester:
But instead, we could all go back to how folks used to think about these things. I'm not saying this to like, oh, the good old days were the best or anything like that. But in this particular area, the idea of borrowing things or why does everyone on a block need own their own lawnmower? Why couldn't you share with different neighbors? Why couldn't you rent a saw or a drill for the project and then give it back and someone else can use it.

Tanja Hester:
A lot of the tips that I offer, I think this is a good example, are both good for the planet and other people, so we're not contributing a whole bunch of demand for stuff that's ultimately just going through our resources, resulting in a lot of carbon emissions, resulting in exploitation of workers, but it's also saving you money. You know, renting a power tool is a lot cheaper than buying it. The same is true if you share something across multiple neighbors, or friends, or whatever makes sense in your situation. Obviously not everybody has a house and a yard, but fill in the blanks with your stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk throughout the book, by the way, about factoring in your own financial wellbeing and it's important to look out for yourself and don't always be... The dominant thing doesn't have to always be giving, giving, giving. Part of giving is creating your own financial foundation and maintaining it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say some things that make sense, but only after you explain it, because they're a little bit counterintuitive. For example, Marie Kondo, cleaning out. Minimalism has been a big trend, but it's not really that simple. You have some interesting thoughts about donations and what we do with our stuff because we all have so much stuff. We think we're doing good when we donate it and we certainly have good intentions, but explain. It's not so simple, right?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, the most important part to me of Marie's message is actually take good care of the things that you own and help them last longer. I think that part's been totally lost in favor of, trash anything that doesn't spark joy. The problem is that we have such a huge flow of things going to donation centers. You know, everybody loves to take their garbage bags full of stuff to Goodwill, that most of what Goodwill does is actually not sell our discards. It's actually throw them away and they pay a huge amount of money every month, as do other charitable organizations that take donations in physical form, just to send stuff to the landfill.

Tanja Hester:
I think if we all knew that what we were donating was most likely either going to the landfill or worse, getting loaded on a ship and sent to Africa, where it was decimating local textile industries, I think we would be a lot more thoughtful about it, but we feel like we're sending stuff out and it's doing good rather than we're sending stuff to the trash, I think we would approach things differently.

Tanja Hester:
So, I propose a different standard rather than sparking joy or using it, and thinking instead about, could I get more useful life out of this and maybe it's repurposing it in some way. It doesn't have to be wearing a dress that you hate forever, or a dress that doesn't fit. You know, it's thinking, could I use the fabric and make something else with it or whatever it might be. If you can't that, then working a little bit harder to put those items, you're discarding into the hands of someone who will actually use them, rather than just sort of blindly sending them off to the donation center.

Tanja Hester:
So rather whether it's trading with friends, or listing things online, or on a buy nothing group, there's so many different options now for discarding things a bit more thoughtfully, that will make sure we're not just sending huge amounts of stuff to the landfill and even worse than filling that empty space with new stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said. And you have a lot of specific resources in the book and through your website, et cetera, that we can refer people to, to get more details on how to actually do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another interesting thing, we're talking about activism, but also money tips, is to be aware of the DIY trap. People think if they do it themselves, they're going to save money and it's all good and it's great, but there's a lot to be wary about there.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, I think if folks have hobbies that are doing things yourself, making kombucha, for example, that can actually be a great way to save resources because you don't need special gear to make kombucha versus buying a steady stream of bottles from the store. If you like to drink it often, you can reuse the same bottles over and over and over, if you make it yourself.

Tanja Hester:
But there are other things that are DIY where you sort of say, "Well, you know, if everyone just did this ourselves, we'd actually save resources." And that's in fact not true. If we all tried to grow all our own food, think about how much more equipment we'd all need. We'd all need hoses and tools and all the things you need to garden. I garden myself. It's my favorite hobby, but I do it because I love it, not because I'm under any illusions about it being some better way, where we'd also have to all spread out across the land when we should be leaving more of that land alone so that it can sequester carbon and just not have human impact on it.

Tanja Hester:
I think about a lot of folks I know here who love to home brew. And if you really love that and you're going to do it for a long time, that's great. But if you're thinking, "Oh, I buy a lot of beer and that comes with cans and bottles." Think about how much gear you actually need to do home brewing. You need all these buckets and you need metal tubes and you need a lot of stuff. And if you do what a lot of folks do, which is invest in all the gear and then give up that hobby, you've now gotten a whole bunch of stuff that's very specialized, that you can't easily use for other things, and then you're still having all the waste of the bottles and cans. Which by the way, bottles and cans, people shouldn't stress about. Just make sure they get recycled. Those are actually recycled at a high rate and are not a huge deal.

Tanja Hester:
So, that's really where I say it. It's also, I don't want anyone to feel pressure to DIY things, when you have a very busy life and you've got demands on your time. You need to work. You need to earn a living. All the things you need to do. I say, do DIY stuff if you love it, if it's fulfilling to you in some way but don't feel like you must. If that's not something that's doable for you, there are other good ways to be a wallet activist.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that theme that also runs throughout your book where you do talk about the fact that people should be realistic about what they can do. It doesn't have to be all at once. You don't need to overhaul your life immediately upon reading the book and treat it like a checklist and go through each thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most importantly, don't be judgy about other people. You make a big point about the fact that if you feel passionate about something like I don't eat meat and it's for a number of reasons, but I'm also aware of a lot of the things that you talk about in the book. But I don't tell other people not to do that. I just say, "I don't eat meat," and I leave it at that. Let them do that. If they ask you more questions, then absolutely you can share some more information, but it's important to not impose your views too strongly because it can backfire.

Tanja Hester:
It absolutely can backfire. You know, I think there is ample research to show that shaming people doesn't work. Shaming corporations, that can work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. That's a PR campaign. That's a whole different thing.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Shaming, very, very wealthy people can work in some instances. But shaming individuals really doesn't work and so there's no point in doing it.

Tanja Hester:
But the other thing and something that I really set out to do with this book is to balance both environmental concerns and human concerns. Oftentimes, those things are posited as opposites, as you can do one but not the other, and I just reject that. I think it's so important that we start thinking about both our fellow humans and the planet together and when we talk about climate change, that we're also talking about inequality and how all of that ties together. That's a big part of it.

Tanja Hester:
I think sometimes in the interest of making an environmental choice, we do things that hurt people. An example I use in the book is the popularity right now of plastic drinking straw bans that are going into place all over the country, all over the world. Those are doing a lot of harm actually to disabled communities. There's this thought of like, "Well, but you have all these other choices. You could use a paper straw." Well guess what? A lot of disabled folks say those don't work. They don't work in hot beverages. They aren't positionable.

Tanja Hester:
Okay, well what about that fancy stainless steel straw? Well, not everyone can afford that. First of all, they're expensive. And second, how are you supposed to clean that on the go and use it every time you're out and about. And so we just aren't having enough of that conversation of balancing both. And so if you're talking about shaming people who use single use plastics, or my favorite is seeing the tweet, that's like, "Hey, look at this peeled apple that's wrapped in plastic." Like, yeah. Okay. That is a lot of plastic. That's a bummer. But guess what? The people who need that are people with disabilities, where they can't use their hands properly, or they don't trust themselves to use a knife.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to go through kind of a quick hits list of food advice because this was my favorite area of the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, the question on everyone's mind, the whole organic thing and I'm going to throw in there the whole grass-fed thing, because my son Bradley, he wanted everything grass-fed for a while and it's really expensive, but is it bad if we don't buy grass-fed everything and organic everything? I know the prices are coming down for organic, but talk to us.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, it's funny. Organic is often posited as sort of the panacea. This will fix everything and if you actually look at the science of it, and I say this as a person who loves to buy organic, so I'm talking to myself here too. The truth is a lot of organically produced food actually has a much bigger climate impact than things that are produced more conventionally.

Tanja Hester:
With grass-fed beef, for example, or grass-fed dairy, the cows have to live a lot longer because grass is much less caloric than the grain they're fed in feed lots and so the cows who live in feed lots, those are terrible conditions. I think we can all agree on that and they have a lot of waste they have to deal with. It's not a good system. We need to reform it, but those cows live less than half as long, to get to the same size as the cows that are fed grass.

Tanja Hester:
So if we are just looking at how much beef we want to produce, grass-fed actually has a much, much higher climate impact. So that's not to say-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. It's not to say the industrial side is great, but organic is not automatically a cure-all. I recommend that folks look at organic for most animal products, if possible, and certain produce, especially things that are grains, so that you're avoiding Roundup glyphosate. But I think folks will be shocked to hear that I recommend a lot of non-organic too, because of both the climate impact and the worker impact.

Tanja Hester:
There are a lot more injuries associated with organic fruits and vegetables because they have to do absolutely everything by hand. So those are important things to consider that I haven't seen be included in the conversation so far.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do we do about the whole milk options thing? Because first I was putting almond milk in my coffee. I felt really good about it and then I heard it was really bad. Now I'm doing oat milk but I also feel like rice milk. But I know from your book, rice milk is also not so good. So what do we do? What do we do, Tanja? And the price is that they're always charging me more for... I mean, do we have to pay more for the oat milk? Is it really more for the oat milk or are the coffee place is just charging us more because they can?

Tanja Hester:
With oat milk in particular, they're charging you more because they can. Oats are incredibly cheap to produce. If you were getting organic oats, which is actually really hard to find, that could be worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have no idea.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
No idea.

Tanja Hester:
Most oats are sprayed with Roundup and people don't like hearing that, but the pesticide and herbicide levels in oat-based products are really high. In terms of dairy, non-dairy milks, I mean honestly, I think the answer I want to give folks is don't stress that much about it. Any plant-based milk is better for the planet, for people, for animal welfare, than dairy.

Tanja Hester:
So this getting ourselves tied up in knots about how many gallons go into a gallon of almond milk? Okay, yeah. Like that's true but it also is true that we're reforesting California Central Valley, when we grow almond trees that are replacing cotton, which is a much more water intensive crop.

Tanja Hester:
So everything exists on a spectrum. My point is not to try to get people twisted in knots. It's to say actually, stop twisting yourself in knots. If you're doing any non-dairy milk, you're doing great. Do organic with soy and with oat. With the rest, don't stress about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Final question before we wrap up. Give us your tips about food waste because food waste really costs people so much money, myself included. I am terrible at food inventory management. Things go bad all the time. I have the best intentions. I want to do a fancy recipe and then I'm missing one ingredient. I don't do it that night and then it just never happens and that fabulous herb that I bought goes bad. What do we do?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, food waste is a huge, huge problem. So some tips are, a lot of these I think folks have probably seen around, but making a meal plan before you shop, trying not to shop for a few weeks so that you can eat down what you already have. I love your example of the recipe. You know, don't buy some fad ingredient unless you have the recipe and have all the things for it and you know, you're going to make it right away.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself sort of face up to your food waste. Put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family or you create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. And then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eyeopening and that can be really motivating. So once you see the types of foods you're wasting most, or where the sources are, you can start to come up with a plan. Maybe it's serving smaller portions for everyone, but letting them take seconds instead of putting big portions on the plate. Once you've sort of come face-to-face with your food waste, you can make a plan to reduce it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I'm kind of sitting here processing that, getting ready to reveal that to my husband, who I'm sure will be thrilled to have all of our food waste in our refrigerator, front and center, for a week. So we're going to work on that here in my home, but in the meantime, Tanja, congratulations on the book again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people be in touch with you? I know the book is going to be available everywhere, so please pick up Wallet Activism, everyone. Where can they reach you?

Tanja Hester:
My website is ournextlife.com and I'm most active on Twitter and Instagram and that's at our_nextlife. I also recently joined TikTok, which is so embarrassing for a person over 40. That's @walletactivism.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it and you have a podcast as well, right? Now with Wallet Activism?

Tanja Hester:
Yes, that's right. It's called Wallet Activism, same as the book, and you can find it in all the podcast places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many takeaways from our interview. I personally am bracing for a big post-pandemic closet clean-out and knowing what Tanja had to say about what really goes on when we donate clothing and other goods to charity is really making me think twice about what to do with all of that. So I'm definitely going to be checking out those, buy nothing groups, because I really have so much stuff that is perfectly good. I don't want to throw it out because it's perfectly good but if I said it to charity, well, it may not get to the right place either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends. There was a lot to digest in this episode, but do not stress. We have it all for you right on my website. You can get a full transcript of the show, along with resources and so on, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com and just click on the podcast tab.

Bobbi Rebell:
What got you thinking in this interview? For me, it was the whole plastic straw thing. It shows we really have to think broadly about these decisions and there's a lot of gray areas out there. You really have to think through what this means for different people versus what this also means for our planet. It's complicated. DM me and let me know your take and what really stood out to you. On Instagram, I am at BobbiRebell1. The number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Wallet Activism author, Tanja Hester, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, it's brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Don’t wait until January!! Friend of the podcast Allison Task is back with her latest project: A Year of Self Care Journal. Find out how you can create a healthy financial ecosystem, get tips for active listening and the difference between responding and reacting and so much more.  

Money Tips

• Create a healthy financial ecosystem

• Get tips for active listening

• Learn the difference between responding and reacting

• How to make the most of the Self Care Journal
  

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Follow Allison!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Allison Task:
Dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where are money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers. That's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to an all new episode of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. You guys are in for a treat today because it is all about you putting yourself first as you should and not waiting until the new year. I'm really excited to bring back career coach, mentor, life coach, all around wise person. An author, Allison Task, she's a guest so many of you wrote me about that you loved, as did I. Because Allison just gets it. And she isn't afraid to dish out some tough love to get all of us to a better place.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get a lot of books sent to me asking if the author could be featured on the show and I really try to limit the number of sort of journals as we head into the new year. Some of them are really good, but a lot of them are kind same old, same old. This is very different. It is, I don't know what to say, just substantial. There's a lot more to it and a lot of thought that went into it. And most of all, it's definitely not something you want to wait on. You want to get this now and not just wait to the new year. So in this case, I actually reached out to Allison Task and I bought myself this journal because I wanted it now, I didn't want to wait. And it really is a next level version of something that so many other people are doing, but just not as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you listen to the interview with Allison, you're going to start to understand why it is simply called a year of self-care journal. So in our interview, Allison and I talk about some very real world situations, including ... and this gets really personal, I was kind of a little surprised she went there. But Allison talks about how she talks about money with her husband and even revealed some of the conversations that they had when things got really dicey during the pandemic. She gets really candid about how her life changed, some big decisions that had to be made. And how this project, the journal, came to be. We talk about active listening, communicating boundaries, and the difference between reacting and responding. Get ready, guys, this is good. Here is Alison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alison Task, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad to have you back. You were here a little while ago to talk about personal revolution. It's like our important to sort of like evolution, everyone should check out that book and that at episode. Which of course, we have to be like so podcast cliche and be like, "Go to our show notes for the link to that." But I have you back because you have a new book. It is called A Year of Self-care, it's a journal. Allison, first of all, welcome, welcome, welcome. And tell us about the new book.

Allison Task:
So, the new book is something that I created so that people could have really tangible exercises. You know me, right? I'm a coach, I'm a life coach, career coach. And what happens out of my room is more important than what happens in the room. While in conversation with people, we have work to do. And I wanted to create something so that people could go home at night and do the work. That's where the rubber hits the road, you be with your coach, but it's in your weekly runs that you really get stuff done. That was the idea for this book. And it's a journal. So every week has either a quote or some sort of topic to keep you thinking and then an action. And it's designed to happen anytime over the course of a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. And the other thing that I really like about it is they're really substantial, and they're thoughtful, and there's themes that come back throughout the book, which I like. Because you want reinforcement, you don't want just one time to be told, "Oh, think about your sleep and how that impacts the rest of your life." They're recurring themes and I really like that positive reinforcement. Especially when we are home more than we used to be, even as the world opens up. And this is a time when people really want to be thinking about how they're living their life.

Allison Task:
Right. So it's very intentional. And when you talk about the themes, there are five specific areas that I focus on. I focus on self care in terms of the physical, the mental, the spiritual, and the emotional. Like those three always get put together. So physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, and social.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I cheated a little and looked ahead and went through the book to pull out some of my favorite week challenges, prompts, whatever you want to call it. So I want to ask you to elaborate on a few of them, just to give people a little bit of a teaser of the book, sneak, peek, whatever you want to call it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one of my favorites is week seven, which is about making an honest assessment of your financial situation including creating a healthy financial ecosystem. And that's something, by the way, sneak peek, also, Allison you're featured in my upcoming book that's coming out in March, Launching Financial Grownups. You had amazing advice for parents. We talked about the financial ecosystem a bit there, too.

Allison Task:
Absolutely. I can't tell you how many clients I meet at all levels of economics who I'll say, "What is your budget? Do you know what you're spending a month or a year?" They'll say, "No." And dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where our money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers, that's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's hard to make time to do that even when we have a lot of time. So that's one of the reasons it's nice to have a physical book with actual prompts because you can go to the other financial stakeholders in your family, which may be a husband, a wife, whomever it is. But the people that your finances overlap with and say, "Look, I'm working on this. I need your help. Can you participate in this exercise this week?" So I think that's a great thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk about practicing active listening. It's so important in life, but also it's important for career and business success. We've learned that a little bit with Zoom because we can't talk over each other as much as we might in person. But tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, active listening, to me, it's a gift you're giving to the person you're speaking with. I'm speaking right now, you're giving me the space, you're not stepping on me. And now the next part is ... and we don't have to do this in the interview. But it's, "Here's what I heard you say, Allison." It's actively giving space, then even a little extra space when the person finishes. And then letting you know they were heard.

Allison Task:
If there's community, the level of connectivity that happens when a person feels heard is very powerful. It's relief, you can feel it in your body and you feel it because there's me and you and the space between us. And the space between us grows wider and more powerful, we connect more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one of my favorites here was communicating boundaries. This is really important as we start going back into the world. You mentioned your PTA president, I'm actually the class mom, whatever you want to call it, for my son's grade. And we get pulled into ... you're silently applauding me, but I'm sort of mixed feelings about it. Because we sometimes say yes, and when you say yes to something, you are kind of saying no to something else. So it's really important to be selective and to create those boundaries. Tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, yes. Congratulations and thank you for stepping up in this leadership role. Yeah, fuzzy boundaries like this, emotional boundaries with your kids, showing up, volunteering is some of the fuzziest of boundaries. And so where do we want to go? Checking in with ourself. When you feel you're getting pulled, I sense resistance. And it's very much okay. And trust me as a PTA president, I'm always having people tell me, no. But when people tell me, yes, I go, "Great. How do you want to build this? How will this work for you?" I do not want a single volunteer that isn't thrilled to be there because then the work doesn't get done in a passive aggressive way and I'm not interested in wasting time with that. So if you want to stand up, how do you want to stand up? So maybe defining for yourself how you want to be a class parent. I will spend no more than two hours a week on this. Some weeks I'll go to 10 for big weeks, but that's it. And you can say no and say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that a lot. The other thing I really like is further on ... actually this is the final one, so I'm giving everyone ... it's not a spoiler, but anyway. It's consider the range of responses, the difference between responding and reacting. And I was like, "Hmm." I read that, I'm like, "I really have to process that because they are very different." And very often we're reactive when really we should be a little bit more thoughtful and think about our response.

Allison Task:
Right. And active listening helps you with that. Responding is taking a beat, thinking, giving space. And reacting is quicker. I was visiting relatives in Rochester the summer and she said, "The difference between the downstate city folk and us is, we just take that space." And you gave that some space, which I appreciate. Because you were considering it. Respond. React is, "No, no, no, that's not what I said. No, no, I meant something totally different." It's high pitched, it's frenetic, it's pitchy, it's up here. It's not deeper, stronger.

Bobbi Rebell:
The final thing that I want to ask you to tell us more about of these 52 amazing prompts. You talk about ... this is really towards the beginning, if your ship doesn't come in ... this is a quote because you have the quotes and then you have the actions. If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to meet it. I want to hear more about that. Because many of us are still home, we're starting to go back to offices, back to socializing, back to in-person activities and networking. And this is a time when we have to remember that if we just sit back, sometimes the ship doesn't come into us. Sometimes we do have to force ourselves and I find myself sometimes really not wanting to go to things. Even though I do miss friends, I do miss going out. We kind of got used to just not.

Allison Task:
Well dirty little secret, boy was I happy to have all those obligations off of my docket. And I sense you're feeling that way, too. And so ... ah, you're giving me the side eye. So that's a boundary thing. Here's what I learned about myself during the pandemic, I tend to overbook and I really value my downtime and I don't have that much of it. You're a person who puts yourself out there in public for a career, maybe you really treasure that reconnection, rejuvenation, repair time. You're out so much, you got to go in, too. I think that's important. I'm not sure that I answered your exact question because I flipped it [crosstalk 00:11:55]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I guess the question is, though, at a certain point, you also have to say, "Okay, but I do have a business, I do have to earn income." And it's not going to happen. If I just wait for the ship to come to me, maybe I have to go out and meet the ship. I mean, that really hit home with me that we do have to motivate. Yes, we've learned how much we need that rejuvenation, how much we do need that downtime. But we also have to remember, there's a reason why people go to in person business trips, for example. There's a reason why we would meet somebody in person to have coffee or lunch or whatever it may be. Because you do connect with of people sometimes on a very different level when you do have those in-person experiences. And that's something that we're all figuring out right now, what is the balance? Because of what you just said.

Allison Task:
That's a really powerful part of self-care. Self-care isn't just the repair and the snuggling in the cashmere. Self-care is also taking action, growing. I like the concept that you're either comfortable or you're growing. And if you're waiting on the couch or by the edge of the sea, maybe you're comfortable and maybe you need a little goose. Maybe you need to goose your system. Maybe your business is running perfectly fine, but then have that moment with yourself where you sit down and have a little offsite with you. Maybe it's down insight in your home. And you're like, "Is this where I want my business to go? Where do I want my business in ten years, five years? Then what are my goals for this year?" So that's assert yourself. One of the WHO things, The World Health Organization, I believe was agency. It's empowerment, autonomy, self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
Self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
There you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you gave me the perfect lead in and because you also have a whole business. Books are just a tiny part of all that you do. So tell us about that and how people can be in touch with you and learn more about everything besides your books. We know your books are everywhere.

Allison Task:
Yeah, they are live and large. So I have a personal coaching business, I work privately with individuals to coach them. I have been hired by organizations, but I prefer to keep my work really intimate, working directly with the person who hires me. My name is Alison Task. My website is AllisonTask. And currently available working with private clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And it's great that you can be available for people, but also if that's not an option for somebody, they can definitely get your books and other resources. So thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison was so great, as always, so perceptive. Just really nails it and calls us out for the things that we know we should be doing, but we don't always actively pay attention to. I particularly loved what she had to say about volunteering, which is something I have mixed feelings about. Also how to say no, but also say yes. And I was struck by what she had to say about the fact that we tend to just react to things when we really should take a beat and think about our response. Take some space, give other people a little space.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would love to hear from all of you about what resonated with you. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. And please take a moment to share this episode on social media or just directly share with your friends that might enjoy it. I really need your help to grow this podcast, it is truly a labor of love. And for that reason, each and every one of you matters to me. So I am sincere when I ask you to be in touch. I want to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't wait until the new year to pick up Allison's book, A Year of Self-care Journal. Allison Task always brings it and we are so thankful for her coming back to the podcast to help us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a Production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, Guest Coordination, Content Creation, Social Media Support and Show Notes By Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Woman’s Day Editor-in-Chief Meaghan Murphy shares how her enthusiasm for things she loves turns into sales.  Plus tips for dealing with toxic bosses at work, why she loves coupons even more than ever, and a preview of her awesome new book "Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay."

Meaghan’s Money Tips

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.

Follow Meaghan!

• Instagram - @meaghanbmurphy

• Facebook - @meaghan.b.murphy

• Twitter - @meaghanbmurphy

• Website - https://meaghanbmurphy.com/

• Book - https://meaghanbmurphy.com/book/

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Meaghan Murphy:
I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Time to smile my grownup friends. Money may not buy you happiness, but happiness can get you very far when it comes to making money. This week's guest literally leverages her happiness into success. You can't help but love this woman the minute you meet her, even if it is virtual. Meaghan Murphy is the editor in chief of Women's Day, which is the number one selling magazine on news stands. And one of the hosts of the Off the Gram podcast. She is also the author of the new book, Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
If she sounds familiar that's because you see you're on all the morning shows. Plus all those great shows like Live with Kelly & Ryan. She is a home hack master, a lifestyle and health expert. Oh. And she works out like a pro because yes, one more thing. She is a certified trainer. She also has lots of children and a husband and so much going on. But we got her here on the podcast to talk to us about how to put yay into our life. And of course, some incredible money tips. Here is Meaghan Murphy. Meaghan Murphy, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. I love that you're saying yay. That's like your anthem as the author of Your Fully Charged Life: A Radically Simple Approach to Having Endless Energy and Filling Every Day with Yay. A lot of people will look at this book and they'll say like, oh, that's not me. I'm not wired that way. She's so chipper. She just walks around saying, yay. By the way, people can't see you, but you have lightning bolts on your clothing. But honestly, if somebody met you earlier in life, that's not who you were. Give us some context for this because you weren't always the yay person.

Meaghan Murphy:
After some tragic teen years, I did write a very powerful essay that earned me a scholarship and a national TV spot, which ultimately led to an internship at YM Magazine and ultimately springboarded a magazine career. And so in my 20s, when I was working at Cosmopolitan Magazine, I was assigned by my boss to write a story called the seven secrets of happiness. And I completely rolled my eyes because I'm like, who wants to read this crap? But I was the senior editor at Cosmopolitan and this was my assignment when I started to delve into the research and I started to look at the field of positive psychology. And I looked at the work of Martin Seligman who sort of the godfather of positive psychology. And it was the first time that I sort of had this epiphany that happiness wasn't this like bumper sticker, static (beep) thing that you either were or weren't, but it was actually an active state of being, and there were things you can do.

Meaghan Murphy:
There were choices you could make on a daily basis to move the happiness needle. And maybe it might be better and feel better and to live that way. And so I started to dabble in optimism. I started to dabble in living differently. And that's really when the seeds of a fully charged life were planted. And the beautiful thing about prioritizing positivity and sort of actively choosing happiness is that it really started to build and spiral till it becomes easier to do. And it becomes, comes the default, right? And you don't have to work so hard at it. So today, I mean, my friends joke, I'm like a fricking rainbow unicorn. But that's years and years of practice later and kind of rewiring my brain for optimism and joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
That optimism and joy, even though you're not even conscious about it, does translate into so much success in things that are connected to money. So for example, you talk about in the book that you were online at an ice cream store and you were so enthusiastic about a santa cake that you basically became the de facto salesperson for this little ice cream store that was selling ice cream cakes, and you started selling santa cakes for them.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm an evangelist for things I love. If I get excited about something I want everyone else to get excited about. So I probably should have some type of sales career because I would crush it. I got excited about this santa cake and was literally like, oh my God, everyone look at this. And so everyone in line bought one.

Bobbi Rebell:
For any doubters who don't see the connection between happiness, and a positive attitude, and success like, being really good at selling. There it is. There is a connection. Even though it comes so naturally to you Meaghan, that you don't see it. There is a huge connection. Let's get into some of the tips. So the first one that I want to talk about is how to deal with toxic bosses or colleagues?

Meaghan Murphy:
Avoid them as much as possible. Give and requests only much information as needed as to do your job. Keep things professional. Don't get sucked into that. I also say, ignore the bait and bite your tongue instead. I love Terri Cole. She has a new book coming out too called Boundary Boss, but she calls it being unprovokable. And I find being unprovokable and using that word as sort of a mantra, I'm unprovokable, I find it very empowering. So no matter what somebody spews at me, how somebody is trying to drag me down, I just don't fall for the bait. I bite my tongue and I smile and I don't fall for it. And I find it's very gratifying, right, to be unprovokable. I highly recommend that. I also say, always kill them with kindness. I'm always going to be kind. I'm always going to be generous.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm always going to be helpful. And even if there's a little piece of me that dies in the process, I am absolutely going to kill them with kindness. And I find that the haters often come around. And one of my favorite, like sort of Instagram bumper stickers is hustle until the haters ask, if you're hiring. This has happened to me quite often, where I've stayed above the fray. I haven't given them a lot of my brain space, or my energy, or my focus. I've sort of created this force field of positivity against that toxic energy. And eventually they soften up and they suddenly want to be my friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And the next one actually ties into this very well. It's something you learned from Shonda Rhimes when you edited one of her interviews.

Meaghan Murphy:
I'm obsessed with Shonda. I was the executive editor at Good Housekeeping at the time. And she was like, always have hard conversations ASAP. Don't wait for a good time. Right? We angst about when we're going to have this conversation, because we got to wait for the right time. We've got wait for that right moment. Well, guess what? That right moment never actually happens. And you've wasted energy and bandwidth angsting about when it's going to happen. Do it ASAP. Just have the hard conversation. And I've done that where like, I can feel my palms sweating. I can feel my voice shaking. I'm getting the sweats, but I am absolutely going to pick up the phone or walk into the office and have that really, really difficult conversation without hesitation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So easy to say, so hard to do. But I'm going to work on that. I know I've had a really hard time with that myself. You also say something that a lot of people have said the opposite. So I think our listeners are going to really benefit from hearing about this. You say respond to every email.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's super counterintuitive, right? Because doesn't that seem like a time suck? And I guess I should make the caveat, every email that the person... Like so if it's spam, they've spelled your name wrong, gotten the name of your publication wrong, that can be a delete. But if someone has taken the time to engage with you. If a publicist reaches out to me and say, oh, Meaghan, looks like you had a great time in St. Thomas from your Instagram. I've got this great pitch. I think it could be a fit for this section. They deserve a response. That's a kindness, that's a professional courtesy. And in so many instances where I've responded and said, you know what? This is not a fit for me. I'm going to keep it top of mind. Or I've exchanged some kind of a kindness of like that was a great pitch.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's not right for me. Maybe it's right for so-and-so over here. Did you think about that? I have benefited from those interactions in so many crazy ways where they're like, oh, you know what? You should know this person, or what about this or... Good things come to you when you're a good human being. It's this kindness networking boomerang. And I can't tell you how good it feels to walk through a trade show and be like, oh, that's Meaghan Murphy. She's the best. She always responds to email. She's so courteous and polite. It's a kindness that I will extend to anyone who makes a concerted effort to contact me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And these are people that you're basically saying no to, which is amazing.

Meaghan Murphy:
I kind of think of the world as like a Lite Brite board. Do you remember Lite Brite boards when you were a kid?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Meaghan Murphy:
And the more of those colorful pegs you put into the board, the clearer the picture gets, and eventually you have this bright, vibrant, interesting picture. To me I sort of look like people and connections and ideas as those pegs, those little lights. And the more I put in the board, the clearer the picture becomes, the more it lights up. And so I am never worried that if I introduce you to so-and-so, then somehow there's less work for me. Or if I connect to these two people, I'm going to be boxed out. Absolutely not. I assume that we all have our own secret sauce. We all shine in our own way. And my shine doesn't diminish yours and your shine doesn't diminish mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so important. Because that's something that I have been so relieved about as I've embarked on my own journey, independent from corporate life. I was afraid that people wouldn't want to help me, but it's been just the opposite. I feel like so many people have been so kind and opened up doors. And hopefully I do just as much for other people. Because if you are secure in what you're doing and what you bring to the table, no one else is you. So there's nothing to fear.

Meaghan Murphy:
And here's the deal though. That's hard earned. I'm a 45 year old mother of three. Who's been at this for 25 years. Did I feel that way in my 20s? Probably not so much. Right. I was probably more protective of my ideas, and my successes, and my connections back in the day. I've learned my lesson. Right? I understand that we lift each other up and all the cliches, real queens fix each other's crowns. I do better when I'm lifting others up. And I find it always pays me back in unexpected ways. And so yay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yay. Absolutely. Okay. I want to whip through a few quick hit, simple things that people can do. And these are examples. There are tons of these in your book. Number one, make your bed.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah. I wrote two pages about it in the book because 82% of people who make their bed feel more productive during the day. And it's a very simple task. That's the whole point of the book. It's a toolkit. And some of the tools are going to work for you and they're going to make you happier, and they're going to make you more productive, and they're going to make you more successful. And you can roll your eyes and not make your bed, but try it. Because 82% of people who do, feel more productive.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second one I want to point out, these are like the quick hits, dopamine dressing. I mean, I literally am wearing a pink scrunchie in my hair right now because it makes me happy.

Meaghan Murphy:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though no one else can see it. Dopamine dressing, talk about it.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's dressed the way you want to feel. I studied acting and I talk about it like, my clothes as a costume. Right. If I were going on stage playing a doctor, I'm not wearing a Fireman's uniform. So what's the life you want. We always say dress for the job you want. Dress for the life you want. Are you going to a funeral or a party? What does that look like?

Bobbi Rebell:
The pandemic, when so many of us are working from home, actually in a way gives us permission to really dress the way we want. We don't have to dress in the way that other people do because no one else can see you sometimes.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. This one, this is something my mom, who's no longer with us did in the late stages of her life. And so it really hit home for me. And I know it made her happy, is put fresh flowers in your house. I mean, she started doing a flower delivery where every week they would come. She had her fancy vases and she had a rotation going where they would take the old one and bring it back. And then bring another one back each week. So every day she would get them made in her vase. And it was such an important thing in those last years when she was ill.

Meaghan Murphy:
It's major. And that's the thing, it's not like, oh yeah, buying your flowers is nice, or it's frivolous, or... There's so much great research. There's great Harvard research that says, fresh flowers in your house actually have the power to ease anxiety, to boost your mood. So why not do that? And I joke about this. During the pandemic, I took a pair of scissors when you couldn't get flowers anywhere. And it was full lockdown mode. And I walked over the park and I cut some daffodils because I was like, my mood is for (beep). I'm struggling. I'm crying in the shower. You know what's going to make me feel better in this moment? Those daffodils on my kitchen table.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The last one, this is something my great aunt Mae told me to do, Meaghan. She's no longer with us, but it really helped me. I was going through a divorce and I had to do live updates from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She would tell me no matter what's going on in your head, physically smile, just force a smile.

Meaghan Murphy:
Yep. It's like when people tell you to stand up straight and then suddenly you roll your shoulders back and down. Like smile right now. Everybody listening, just smile. It changes the way you feel. Facial feedback research suggests that there is absolutely this two-way street between your facial expressions and your emotions. And the second you crack that smile, fake it till you make it. It does send signals to your brain. Like, okay, today's not so bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
The crazy thing is, it works. And I say that to my son all the time when he gets frustrated because he's been doing a ton of remote learning. And I don't know if learning should really be in that phrase actually, having been,

Meaghan Murphy:
I hear you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doing this for over a year. But it's a little bit frustrating for kids. And I think that can really have a really great effect on them as well. All right. I want to do one last money tip, which is just coming from you as a mom. You are still into the coupons.

Meaghan Murphy:
I really am a coupon queen. I miss actually cutting them out of the Sunday circular and going to the shop, right, with my coupons. Ed, my favorite cashier, he's like, where's all your coupons? I don' have the physical paper coupons anymore. Because now everything is an app. But things like RetailMeNot, my grocery store app where I can just scan it and get that bonus. I love saving money so that I could spend it on things I actually might want. I don't need to spend an extra 59 cents on bananas. I would rather put my phone number or my store code and save 30 cents. Because that 30 cents adds up. Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, it really does. And that could get you to the fresh flowers that you want. So absolutely. And the truth is, even though there's probably a satisfaction and I remember my mother sitting at the table cutting her coupons, getting ready to go to the store with her box. She had a box and then she would organize which ones she was then going to use that day. And she was aware of the double coupons and the triple coupon days.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
The truth is that even though that tangible experience is gone for most of us, there is still that thrill of seeing the number go down when things are being rung up.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my God. It's so good. Even when I use my Target card and it's like 5% back, and then I get the bill under 200 bucks, I'm like, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can reach you and your podcast and all your other projects.

Meaghan Murphy:
Sure. So I am on Instagram. I'm pretty busy. Meghan B Murphy, M-E-A-G-H-A-N, B Murphy. I have a podcast called Off the Gram with a bunch of wellness influencers. That's wherever podcasts are not sold, but listened to, I guess. And I'm also the editor in chief of Woman's Day Magazine. So it's a top selling magazine on newsstands. I think we have 18 million readers. So that's a pretty fun thing to pick up too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. That's kind of huge. But yeah, most people would lead with that one, but you have so much going on. I can't thank you enough for stopping by. This is such a gift to our listeners. So thank you so much, Meaghan.

Meaghan Murphy:
Oh my gosh. I so enjoyed you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, right? She was great. Let's go over some of the tips that we learned from Meaghan. First, be an evangelist for things you love. They will literally sell themselves. If you have a toxic boss at work, do not fall for the bait. Be generous with introductions. Don't worry that there will be less for you. Things work out for those who give proactively and generously. And of course, yay for coupons.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So now I have a question for all of you. What are you happy about these days? What are you celebrating? I am looking forward to a lot of in-person get togethers as things open up. And I'm always looking for the perfect gift, which is one reason I created grownupgear.com. So if you haven't checked it out yet, please take a look. We have the perfect gift for all of those adulting moments that we celebrate from graduations to engagements, bridal showers, new homes, birthdays, all the good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
As a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 gift card to Grownup Gear each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. Can also think of it as financial independence day if that motivates you. There are two ways to enter, take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media and tag me @bobbirebell1. That's on Instagram, I should say. And then also email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter is to write a review on the Money Tips for Financial Grownups Podcast on Apple podcasts. Take a screenshot and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. Grownup Gear is what I like to call a micro business and we really do need and appreciate all of your support. So please check it out and tell your friends. And thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note. I hope you guys smiled a lot listening to this episode. I loved interviewing Meaghan. She's the best. So big thanks to Meaghan Murphy. Don't forget to check out her book for cheering us all on and yay for all of you financial grownups. Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. And Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The winners are in! Fall is a great time to sink into a good book and we have the ultimate list including Machiavelli for Women by Stacey Vanek Smith,The Long Game by Dorie Clark, A Year of Self Care Journal by Allison Task, Wallet Activism by Tanya Hester and Estate Planning 101 by Amy Blacklock and Vicki Cook. 

Grownup Reading List Winners for Fall 2021

Book #1

Machiavelli for Women: Defend Your Worth, Grow Your Ambition and Win the Worldplace by Stacey Vanek Smith

- Listen to Stacey Vanek Smith’s Money Tips for Financial Grownups episode -

Book #2

The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World by Dorie Clark

- Listen to Dorie Clark’s Money Tips for Financial Grownups episode -

Book #3

A Year of Self Care Journal: 52 Weeks to Cultivate Positivity and Joy by Allison Task

- Listen to Allison Task’s Money Tips for Financial Grownups episode -

Book #4

Estate Planning 101: A Crash Course for Planning for the Unexpected by Vicki Cook and Amy Blacklock

- Listen to Vicki Cook and Amy Blacklock’s Money Tips for Financial Grownups episode -

Book #5

Wallet Activism: How to Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn and Save As a Force for Change by Tanja Hester

- Listen to Tanja Hester’s Money Tips for Financial Grownups episode -

---

Follow The Authors!

• Stacey Vanek Smith

• Dorie Clark

• Allison Task

• Vicki Cook and Amy Blacklock

• Tanja Hester

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I hope everyone is enjoying the start to fall, hopefully, getting out there a little bit, seeing friends and family in person. Maybe you're going back to the office, maybe, if you're a parent, just maybe your kids are back to school in person. And most importantly, I hope everyone out there is healthy. So important. And we have such an appreciation for that these days, of course. There's a lot going on, and that makes it even more important to take a break and maybe take the time to read a book. I always love fall for reading because it's such a cozy season. And I hope there's always a little bit of us that wants to just take a break, and hit pause, and sink into a really good book.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have selected five that I think are well worth investing your time. So let's get right into it. The first two books I was really drawn to kind of for similar reasons, even though they're very different books, they both offer advice that goes against what we usually hear. And it may take some time to process the advice and the strategies that you will read in these books because they're really counterintuitive, but that's what makes them so compelling. And here's the thing, they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So let me reveal the first pick. The first pick is Machiavelli for Women. Now, this is sort of the biggest, most ambitious book on the list in terms of reading it. They're all ambitious books, of course. So I recommend starting with it first, and really settling into it for a couple of weeks, and reading it in a place that you can really focus because it deserves your focus, for lack of a better expression for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So the full title of the book is Machiavelli for Women: Defend Your Worth, Grow Your Ambition, and Win the Workplace. And I do want to stress that even though clearly by the title, it is aimed at women, everyone who reads this, whatever your gender, will get a lot out of this book. The author, you've probably heard of the author, her name is Stacey Vanek Smith. You've heard of her because she's an incredible journalist and host of The indicator by Planet Money. The book, very high concept. So what Stacey Vanek Smith does is she applies the concepts from Machiavelli's, The Prince, to women and the workplace. The book is incredibly well-researched. You know you can just really tell when the author went the extra mile. Trust me, she went the extra mile.

Bobbi Rebell:
Vanek Smith also took a lot of risks by saying, "Okay, here's the advice you have been given that sounds like the right thing to say, it's the PC thing to do, right? It's the kind of things we all hear like, 'Go, you can be a girl boss. You can hustle your way to success, and it's all going to work. Just go, go, go, go, go girl.'" The thing is, she did the research and there's a lot of documented evidence that a lot of that classic go-girl advice, girl-boss advice, whatever you want to call it, is not working, at least for most people. It's the thing that no one wants to tell you. She will tell you the truth, which is as much as we don't want to admit it, we have a better shot to get what we want if we do certain things that she outlines in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
And in case you're thinking, "Well, things always work for her," Stacey Vanek Smith, I should say, "but not for me," Stacey gets very specific about the things that did not work out for her. And as a fellow journalist, I was in shock, blown away, not only by her honesty, but by the experiences that she had. Because it's one of those, "Oh, I thought it was just me," and, "She's so successful. It must have always been smooth sailing." Well, she totally smashes that myth and she's really vulnerable. I really encourage everyone to read Machiavelli for Women by Stacey Vanek Smith. And by the way, if you read it, and with all of these books, if you enjoy it, go and write a review as well. Amazon is a great place to write a review. You can also go to Goodreads and probably lots of other sites as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
The second book, also a lot of counterintuitive advice that really works, even though it's kind of not supposed to, it's not what people think you should do, but it is what it is. Book number two is The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World. It is by Dorie Clark. She's a professor at Duke and Columbia. She's also written a number of other books. She's a very popular speaker. She's got a lot going on at LinkedIn with a big series there. So this one, I read it by the pool in August. And I tell you that because this is a book that is a real stress reliever. It takes the pressure off that hustle mentality. So it is the closest to a beach read you can get in that sense from a career book, but it's definitely, obviously not a beach read and I highly recommend it for fall. In fact, it just came out in the fall a couple of weeks ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Author Dorie Clark, just like Stacey Vanek Smith, gets very candid about her own failures. I mean, they're just flat-out failures. Sometimes there's no like, "Oh, but then the next year, they hired her and she made bazillions of dollars." No. Some of the failures that she talks about are just that. It shows us that even people that we perceive as being at the top of their field, and they are at the top of their field, I should say, they have their setbacks, even when they are at the top of their fields, as we see it. They may not always see it that way. And also like Smith, Clark offers advice that people just don't like to say out loud. Dorie Clark also has some super easy productivity tips that I've already put to work. They're so easy, makes so much sense. So if you're feeling like there's just too much on your plate, take a moment, hit pause, pick up this book, and just read a chapter at a time. You can definitely take your time and go back and dip into this book back and forth throughout the fall.

Bobbi Rebell:
On the theme of The Long Game, I have tried to do the journaling thing so many times. Every January, I am sent wonderful and beautiful journals by people that write these and maybe want to come on the show, some I've had on the show, and they're awesome. And I love it that it works for so many people. But here's the thing, those blank pages just kill me. The wonderful Allison Task has solved the problem with her book A Year of Self-Care Journal: 52 Weeks to Cultivate Positivity & Joy. So consider this an early holiday present for you, maybe for your friends who need some structure and routine. There are quotes to inspire us and they're not the same old, same old ones. And for someone like me, I just got started and the first week is about laughter. And that sounds like, "Oh yeah, the book's just going to make me laugh." No. It had really good things that we could do to laugh and also just to appreciate how ridiculous things are. So it's kind of weird. It actually works even for skeptics like me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also as a parent, although frankly, everyone is busy, so let's just say as someone with a lot of stuff to do, it has specific tasks throughout the year. So for example, at one point, Allison tells us like, "This week, this week, for sure, check it off your list, that you're going to make appointments with these three crucial doctors that you have to do yearly check-ins with." So it's really important because we're sometimes so busy caring for other people that we forget to do those kinds of things for ourselves. So don't wait until January 1st to get on track. It's 52 weeks. So the week one can be any week. It doesn't have to be the first week of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
And yes, I have roped Allison Task into coming back on the podcast soon to talk about A Year of Self-Care Journal. So you can hear more from her as well. It'll be coming up probably in a couple of weeks. She, by the way, Allison, has had quite the journey over COVID, a lot of personal drama that I am going to ask her about because I know she is so good at sharing the experiences that she and her family have so that we can also learn from those real-life examples. And she's just a great role model. So make sure you are subscribed so you can get that episode when it comes out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We are moving up to book number four. Fall is back to school. So even if you're not officially in school, I do have an assignment for you, my Grownup friends. I want you to get your important paperwork in order. No eye-rolling here. I want everyone, no matter how young, no matter how poor you think you are or how early you think you are on your financial journey, I want you to get your estate planning in order. And estate planning is a really unfortunate phrase because the truth is, it's just having your financial act together, and also in this case, kind of your health act together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because even though we think that estate planning is for really rich people or really old people, the truth is that if you don't have things like advanced care directives in place, which basically means who's in charge of making decisions about your health if you're not able to do it? And who's in charge of your money? Even something as simple as making sure your bills get paid so that all of your financial stuff doesn't come crashing down when you do get better. Someone has to be designated to do that stuff. And so if you don't do that, it's going to be really, really bad. Total chaos. Okay. So the book, the book you guys need to get for this is called Estate Planning 101, a crash course for planning for the unexpected. Estate Planning 101, can't get any easier. The authors are Vicki Cook and Amy Blacklock. Get it stat. Do the things. This lecture is over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rounding out our list of Grownup books for fall is a book that I have been looking forward to and was able to get an early copy of. It's not actually out yet, but it will be in a couple of weeks. So you guys can already pre-order it, it is called Wallet Activism: How to Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn and Save as a Force for Change. It is by Tanja Hester. She's been on the podcast before to talk about her previous book about early retirement. That one was called Work Optional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hester doesn't make us feel bad in this book. If we're being honest, we all probably do things with our money that isn't for social good, not at all. She actually gives us the tools to make changes on our own terms and to really understand the power that we have as consumers. It's called Wallet Activism, and it is really worth reading and supporting, and I hope everyone will get a lot out of it. So pre-order Wallet Activism. And by the time it comes, you'll be done with the other four books and you will be ready to read that book. And also by the way, Tanja will be back on the podcast when the book comes out in early November.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys check out all of these books the authors either have or soon will be on the podcast. We will link to those episodes in the show notes, and you can get the show notes and full transcripts of all the shows on my website, bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com. Just go to the podcast tab and you will see it. Super easy. I want to get back to doing more book episodes. So DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 with books that you are reading or books that you're looking forward to reading that you think would be great to share with the Grownup community. And thanks to all of you for your support and for being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Avoiding burnout is one thing- but what happens when it is happening and you need to find an escape? Career and Life Strategist Elizabeth Koraca shares 3 tips to managing burnout when it is actually happening.

3 Money Tips To Manage Burnout

• If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stop and ask yourself what is causing it. Write down what are your biggest pain points.

• Look at what’s on your plate. Is it overflowing? Chances are if you're feeling overwhelmed you've got too much on your plate.

• Listen to your body, mind, and emotions. Setting goals, taking action, and scheduling them in a calendar will help you combat overwhelm.

---

Follow Elizabeth!

• Instagram - @elizabethkoraca

• Facebook - @ElizabethKoraca

• Twitter - @elizabethkoraca

• LinkedIn - @elizabethkoraca

• YouTube

• Website - https://www.elizabethkoraca.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much, or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think, what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is, feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. I hope everyone is having a great fall and getting into some kind of a good routine because that is one of the many ways to avoid what we're going to talk about today, which is burnout. And there's a lot talk, by the way, about how to avoid burnout and so many great tips that are already out there. But here's the thing. What do you do if you were already in the burnout phase and you don't know how to even get out of it? This has been happening to me. So as some of you know, this summer, I sort of blocked everything out to finish up my next book, which will be out next spring. All good. People were very understanding. I told everyone get in touch. Early fall, I'm going to have tons of time. In fact, I don't even know what I'm going to do with myself. I'm going to have so much time and I can't wait to hang out with you and to do these work related things, and it's going to be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you can guess what happened. The minute I handed in that book, everything came crashing down. And of course, these are good problems to have because I want to see my friends and I want to take advantage of these great work opportunities, except it all came at me at once and I really wasn't ready. It just was kind of like going from zero to 60 overnight. And I had total overwhelm and very quickly I found myself burned out, especially because, as many of you probably have experienced during this pandemic, we just aren't doing as much. So when you suddenly are in a position where you're being invited to different social events that you want to go to and different work things and just plans to see friends and do different things, it's just so much and I don't know how we did it before.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this to say, I reached out to my friend, career and life coach, Elizabeth Koraca. She had some amazing ideas for me, and this is stuff, honestly, I usually roll my eyes at. But she actually had specific things that we can do. And by the way, I should mention part of the reason that we were we're talking is because she has a new podcast called The Speaking Up podcast, which we will talk about in our interview. Elizabeth, as some of you know, and I used to work together at Reuters, we were both TV anchors. And since leaving, she has become a leader in her field in life and career coaching. You should definitely check out the Speaking Up podcast. But first, I want you to listen to my interview with Elizabeth Koraca. Here she is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Elizabeth Koraca, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here, Bobbi. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Always great to have you on. You are definitely a friend of the podcast. And speaking of podcast, congratulations on your new podcast, The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, thank you so much. It's something I've wanted to do for so many years and really help empower people to speak up for themselves and ask for what they want. So I'm just excited that it's doing really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are rolling out the episodes. I know it's already a top ranked one, so everyone should definitely check out The Speaking Up podcast. We're going to talk about that more in a few minutes. But first, first of all, well, I have to convince we're very good friends. I asked you to come back on the podcast because of something that came up in our own private conversations that I really thought would be something of value for the grown up community, and that is my burnout. There's so many people out there with advice on how to of wait burnout, and that is wonderful and great. However, when you are in burnout, there's a lot less advice, but you have some great strategies. And so thank you for bringing them to us.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Can't wait. I can't wait to get to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and this has been something that's been a big topic for your clients, especially that you've been talking about a lot with your clients in the pandemic. Why do you think, before we get to your tips, why has this been so much worse in the pandemic? When in some ways, I feel like we're doing less. So I feel guilty about feeling burned out when there's actually less to do. And yet, I'm stressed out and burned out, my friend.

Elizabeth Koraca:
How you're feeling is completely normal and natural, and I think everyone needs to know that because during the pandemic, we had a lot of extra pressures and we're still in it. We are still in it. It's not over. We're just trying to live as normal as possible. So we've all had stress of getting COVID, loss of loved ones, quarantining, job loss, new jobs, all of a sudden maybe taking care of family, extended family members, children that's at home. You're homeschooling all of a sudden. All kinds of things we never thought we would have to do, we are adding to our plate that might have already been full.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And yes, many of us parents now have kids going back to school, but we're feeling burned out from the last year and a half as stressed out about what happens if they get sent right back home. So much to talk about. Let's get to the tips that you sent over to me that we're going to go over. First of all, if you're feeling overwhelmed, what should we be doing?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Well, you want to stop, look and listen. Okay? If you're feeling that sense of overwhelm, you want to sit with it? Where is it? Is it in your chest? Is it in your gut? What makes you feel overwhelmed? Okay. And then stop yourself and ask, what is causing it? Write down what your biggest pain points are. Is it financial? Is it the kids? Is it external pressures? Are you not getting along with your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend? You want to really think about all of this and you have to pinpoint what is causing the overwhelm.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And we talked about a lack of control. Sometimes things are happening to us that we never thought about we could not have been prepared about, and yet we have to manage that, and that kind of burns us out.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. Often, what stresses us, and that's what causes the burnout is the stress, we are focusing on things we cannot control. Okay? We cannot control when the pandemic is going to be over, but we can control other things. So you want to focus on what you can control. The feeling of being in control and in charge will help you to avoid burnout. And when you're in burnout, it will help you get out of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number two, look at what is on your plate.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Is it overflowing? Chances are, if you're overwhelmed, you've got too much on your plate. So what can you do? Who can you delegate to? What can you delete from your calendar? Or at least push it to a later date. Okay? All the time. And this happened to me the other day. I just felt like my calendar was just so packed and I had so much going on and I feel like we're even doing more as we're trying to go back to normal after what we've just experienced in the past year and a half. So think about all these things and then take action. What can I take off my plate?

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's hard because we're so conflicted because I have, for example, friends that I am dying to see, I haven't seen it so long, and at the same time, I'm hesitant because I just don't want that calendar to get so crowded because I'm afraid of even exaggerating the burnout that I'm already feeling. And we've gotten used to having more time to ourselves.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. And I feel like what you're really saying is, what are my priorities? Yes, I want to see people and I want to see friends I haven't seen in a long time, but maybe thinking about spacing that out and what feels comfortable for you. So many other people are saying, "I'm not used to doing so much." As we start to try to go back to normal, people are used to being at home and spending a lot of time at home. So thinking about slowly going back into it and not jamming the calendar is really going to help you with that feeling of overwhelm, just to dissipate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number three, listen to your body, mind and emotions.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, yes and yes. And I touched upon that earlier in our conversations. If you don't know you're in overwhelm or you're feeling burnt out, listen to your body. When you're speaking to a certain person, does that give you anxiety? Does that cause overwhelm. When you're doing a certain project or task, does that feel overwhelming? When just the thought of doing something feels overwhelming, you want to stop and ask yourself, "How can I help myself in this moment? Is it setting a goal around this? Is it taking action? Is it asking for help?" It's so important to ask for help when we're feeling like this and to ask for help so we can avoid feeling like this, because it's really important to remember people are not mind readers. They don't know what you're feeling. Even you've got people that have been together for 20 years, they don't always know what you're thinking and feeling. So you have to tell people what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such a good reminder because sometimes we get frustrated because we think people should be able to read our minds, and we have to actually be told by someone like you, "No, they can't read your minds." Believe it or not, no matter how long they've known you, even if they're related to you, they're not mind readers. The other thing we've talked about burnout from, and I experienced this is, I really had a social media burnout. I really enjoy social media. I love posing questions to the grownup community and having people interact and hearing from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this summer when I was in the middle of writing, finishing up writing, I should say, my book, which we'll talk about later, it's coming out in the spring, but I was in the middle of this and I just decided to go cold turkey and I really went off Instagram for more than a month. I miss that interaction. But right now, I also just feel a lot of burnout. What's your advice for people that feel like they have social media burnout? Is it to just cut it cold turkey like I did for a while? Or is there a way to sort of balance things?

Elizabeth Koraca:
It's okay to take a break. If you don't want to be on social every day and posting every day, you don't have to. Go at your own pace. So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself because when we don't write it down, it can cause tornado brain. When that stress and everything else is swirling around in your mind, it feels like a tornado. Okay? That's what often overwhelm feels like.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's a new expression for me, tornado brain. Wow.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, and many of us feel tornado brain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tornado brain. Okay.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to use that. I'm going to tell people I have tornado brain. It needs to stop. Anyway, that's all great advice. People can get more great advice. I'm so impressed. You just started a new podcast, but you actually pumped out quite a few episodes. It's now going to go to only twice a week, but there's a bunch of them already out there. It's called The Speaking Up podcast. And it's really, at this point, it's all you. Although, I'm hoping you'll start doing interviews so I can get in there too. Tell us more about The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. It's a lot of my experience grow up, being very fearful of speaking up for myself, and being afraid of public speaking and fearful, and just being afraid to ask for what I want. And then as you know, of course, as a Reuters television anchor, that all changed when I started my career in television news and I was on air. All of a sudden, I'm thrust into the spotlight and you have to speak up. You have to speak your mind. You need a strategy. You need a career strategy. You need to have a plan. So I share all of these tips and tricks and my top advice in my podcast. And I, of course, Bobbi, I would love to have you on when I start to have guests because right now, it's a solo podcast. But pretty soon, I'll be having people on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am there anytime you want. Where can people be in touch with you in addition to checking out The Speaking Up podcast wherever they listen to podcasts?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Wherever they listen to podcasts and on social media. When you have a unique name like Elizabeth Koraca, you often get your own handle. So my handle is @ElizabethKoraca, and that's K-O-R-A-C-A. And my website, of course, it's full of information and advice on me and my career coaching services. So that's ElizabethKoraca.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Thank you so much for joining me and indulging me because I really needed this advice. And like I said, I really hope that our grownup community benefited as well because I know so many people out there are feeling the burnout. Avoiding it is one thing, but sometimes we can't avoid it and we need to just deal with it and manage it, and these are amazing tips. So thank you so much.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel so much better after talking with Elizabeth. Here are some my big takeaways. First of all, make the effort to actually write down your biggest pain points. I'm usually lazy about this, but I find that when I did it after Elizabeth told me to, it seemed much more manageable just to see the words on the page. Also, be realistic. Is your plate overflowing? Maybe you just have to say no and do less. And you can say, "No," even if you don't have a conflict. You don't have to give an explanation. Sometimes it's better to just say, "I can't do it," and maybe schedule it further out like Elizabeth said. And then finally, listen to your body, your mind and your emotions and get control. Set goals and then this is key for me at least, actually put them in your calendar. And that goes along with the whole idea of writing things down because they just seem less scary and less overwhelming when you write them down rather than just having them all in your head.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the term tornado brain that she used. I hadn't really thought of that, but that's something that I think I have a lot. I hope this helped you. And if you know friends that you think might be feeling this way, please share this episode. I would really love to grow the podcast, which is free to you, but it does cost me to produce. I have a wonderful team and they do get paid. Another way to support the podcast is to write reviews on our Apple podcast or any platform you listen to that has reviews. Please do rate and review. And sometimes, this is so easy, the best way to get the word out is to share a screenshot on social media. It's totally free. It takes just a second, and just tag me if it's on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Twitter, just @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you do so, that's great because I can then thank you. And it's also, it's just really nice for me to see that you guys are out there and you're listening. It means so much when you send me DMs on Instagram or just notes in whatever format you choose. It just means a lot. It means a lot. I also appreciate my dear friend, career and life coach, and the host of the Speaking Up podcast, Elizabeth Koraca. And she did a great job helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and per reduction by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on in Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.