In this week’s episode Bobbi answers the question she is getting asked the most after the release of her new book “Launching Financial Grownups”

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Full Transcript:

Hi grownups!

I hope everyone is enjoying the spring and spending lots of time with their friends and family- hopefully staying healthy and having time with our loved ones in person. 

I’ve been enjoying getting out as well- and getting to share my new book: Launching Financial Grownups. Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids be Everyday Money Smart. In fact when this episode is released I will be in Los Angeles both for some speaking engagements and also getting to spend time with friends I have not seen since the before times. I’m so excited to get back out there in person. 

It’s been about a month since Launching Financial Grownups was released and it’s been so interesting seeing what people react to- a lot of people have related to my specific tips about teaching the next generation about money and also enjoyed the not always conventional  advice from the experts I was able to interview for the book including Tori Dunlap from her first 100k and financial therapist Dr. Brad Klontz. 

But there is one question that I keep getting when people learn about the book. And I have been surprised because I thought it was something people were more aware of - it wasn’t something I came up with myself and it wasn’t something that I thought would surprise anyone or really be that interesting. In fact it was kind of a last minute decision to expand the section in the book that talks about it. 

The question everyone has been asking is why do parents these days have such a harder time than their parents did- is there something different going on or are we just bad at this parenting thing even though we seem to be trying so much harder?

The last part of that question is the one that really gets everyone frustrated- should be we BETTER at parenting since we are paying so much more attention to it. I mean when we were coming of age, our parents didn’t pay nearly as much attention to us. They certainly didn’t spend as much money on us- and once we were out of school whether it was high school or college they just kind of let us figure it out. 

We’re working so hard to set our kids up for success. Many of us prioritize education and frankly almost any kid related expense over almost anything that seems indulgent or even wanted for us. And yet, their childhood seems to be endless. 

It’s even become a thing on social media. So many parents of early 20 something joke about the fact that their almost adult kids just don’t seem to leave the nest- financially. And the next generation is not shy about embracing their endless adolescence- joking that they are “adulting” as if doing something adult like in their 20’s is a game and they aren’t actually adults. 

But this didn’t just happen.

Parents are financially tied to their kids for longer for some very specific reasons. Here are some of them. 

First: The Affordable Care Act- aka Obamacare allows our offspring to be on our health insurance until age 26. So that often creates a financial tie in the family until age 26- boom- how do you cut off your kid when you are paying their health insurance. That discussion never happened when anyone who is a parent of a 20 something was growing up . 

Ok you’re saying- just limit it at that. But there are other things parents often pay for that also literally did not exist when we were growing up. Let’s talk about the cell phone bill. If it costs $100 for your kid to have their own bill- and your bill doesn’t go up much- maybe $25 to keep them on- you probably are going to do the math and keep them on there at least until they are .. say 26.. when that health insurance tie happens. But time slides- let’s just way a recent bit political investigation turned up a high ranking former presidential aide that was still on his parents phone bill. Google it. 

And who among us is going to take their kid off their Netflix and other streaming services if it literally costs nothing to keep them on. 

All of this is not bad- but it is something that keeps their finances tied to ours, and better for it. 

We’re closer to our kids and frankly tend to be more involved in their lives thanks to technology. When we were dropped off at college we could use a payphone to call home.. at some point. If we had a question about a life skill- we tended to ask around or figure it out. Now the answer is just a text away. Also a quick text away- money. As in, they can get money to us immediately. No waiting for a check in the mail. Which is a good thing because most young people haven’t even really dealt with physical checks. 

The point being- we’re there so solve their problems- instantly - and there’s a lot of good with that- but it also undermines their ability to develop their own solutions- financial or otherwise. 

And they need us more than ever because corporate America - for all it’s talk of upgrading the workplace - is also relying more on contract workers and many of our kids spend their first years in the gig economy- so they don’t have that structure that helped many of us feel like adults. They don’t have income reliability so how can they manage to have their own home- rented or owned. Ditto that for really being able to save up to live somewhere NOT their parents home. 

Which goes a long way to explain why so many of this generation of emerging adults live at home- which used to have a stigma. But will trillions in student debt and minimal wage gains relative to inflation- who can blame them. 

It’s a lot falling on our young adults- and in turn on us. 

So I’m glad we are all gaining a new appreciation of the challenges facing our young adult kids- and so we can understand how we can help them embrace being adults and move past the gamification of adulting. 

If this makes sense to you- I know you will really get a lot out of Launching Financial Grownups and I hope you will check it out. 

In the meantime I’m also giving some tips and having a little fun at my own expense over on Tik Tok- I keep it simple - the handle is just my name.. as it is on all social media except instagram which is bobbirebell1 - DM me or leave a comment on any of the social platforms with your ideas on how to tackle these challenges- whether you are a young adult or a parent- or if you just care about a young adult in your life. 

Also a reminder- if you are celebrating a big milestone this spring- graduation, mothers day, fathers day, an engagement or a big birthday- great gifts are available at grownupgear.com

Thanks so much as always for joining me as we all learn to be financial grownups. 

Parents and grandparents may be wary of crypto for their own portfolio's, but when it comes to setting up their kids for long-term investing success, UNest.co expects digital currency to be the gift of choice this year.

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• Twitter- @bobbirebell

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. This episode is sponsored by UNest, start investing in your most important asset, your kids, with UNest. Soon, you will also be able to give the gift of crypto. Join the UNest Legacy waitlist and get early access, entry into giveaways, and much more. Visit unest.co for more information.

Ksenia Yudina:
We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? And overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobby Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here we go, grownup friends. If you are a regular listener, you know I spend a lot of time talking about how to set our kids up for success, especially as they get into the teen and early adult years. But it all starts early. And while money isn't everything, of course, having money ready for them to go fund those early life needs, whether it's college, a car, a first home, and yes, even a wedding, it is a wonderful gift that we can give to the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so I was fascinated by what I learned from a relatively new company called UNest, which is an app designed to help parents and loved ones save and invest for their kids. They found that in addition to stocks, which is a surprise to nobody, what parents really wanted to put in their kids investment accounts was crypto. And the reason why actually makes a lot of sense, especially when you're worried about the risks. We're going to get to that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently sat down with Ksenia Yudina. She is the founder and CEO of UNest. And we started by talking about her own experience getting started in her adult life which, like so many young people, included a mountain of student debt. Here is Ksenia Yudina.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ksenia Yudina, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ksenia Yudina:
Hi, Bobbi. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for coming on. You are truly a financial grownup. You came to the U.S. when you were only 18, put yourself through undergrad and business school. You've done so much with your life. We're going to talk about your company UNest in a minute. But you graduated, we're talking a lot about student loans, you graduated with I think $180,000 in student loans. Tell us how you did that.

Ksenia Yudina:
I came to here when I was a student. I was 18 years old. I was truly passionate about education. And I believe that education is a key to getting financial freedom. So even 18 years old, I kind of was very rational and logical person in that respect. So I put myself through college, got my undergrad from CSUN. And then later got my MBA from UCLA Anderson. I also received a CFA, which is one of the hardest financial exams in the nation. And I believe it just changed me as a person, right? I do know how to manage my own money. I'm trying to help my friends every day financial planning. And I'm trying to kind of save the country right now from the little bit of financial crisis we're going through right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you're talking a lot about what's going on especially with student loans and how to finance our education, how to finance the futures of young people. And to that point, your company is UNest. Tell us about UNest.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. UNest is an app that makes it super easy for parents to create and manage the account for their kids, the investment account, and get gifts from friends and family. The inspiration to start my own company, as you mentioned, came from kind of twofold. First, because I graduated myself with 180,000 in student debt. And a lot of my friends were impacted by the student debt crisis. Right now, it's estimated to be at 1.7 trillion. And a lot of parents, quite honestly, just want to build a better future for their kids and want to make a difference in their kids lives and give them more chance to success. The key to that is start saving early and investing for the kids future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, on the surface, a lot of parents were told to open up a 529. Recently, there's been a lot of debate about where is the best place to really put the money for your young children as they grow up because there are limitations to 529s. UNest made a change. You pivoted from 529s to UTMAs early on. Walk us through that.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, that's correct. I was actually a huge fan of 529s when I was working at Capital Group, my previous employer. And Capital Group was number one provider of 529s in the nation. And when we started the company, we focused on 529s because of amazing tax advantages and tax-free growth. What we realized in the middle of pandemic is that parents have different priorities for their kids and not necessarily want to save for college.

Ksenia Yudina:
The biggest limitation of 529 is that if you do not spend it for education expenses or for college, you lose all tax benefits and you get penalty of 10% on all the gains in your account. As we learned from our user base, parents want to save for some other things sometimes, for the child's first car or for the wedding day or for the first home. It's not necessarily college. And also, a lot of people were just questioning the value of college and the cost of education when everything shifted online during the pandemic.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that makes a lot of sense because I can say having raised three kids here, every kid is so different and their dreams and aspirations and their priorities can really vary. And we don't know necessarily when they're young where they will want to focus and where we can help the most as they become financial grownups. Why is it so important then to start saving and investing for children when they're really young, when we don't know necessarily what their priorities are going to be?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. I think that's the best way to set them up for success. Right? So I'll just give you quick example from my life. When I went through my undergrad, I actually got assistance from the government and I was lucky enough to get financial aids and all of that. But in the meantime, my parents did help me with the down payment on my first apartment, or the townhouse. I actually still own it. That resulted in such a huge value-add and just wealth building and gave me a great opportunity to kickstart my own savings and investment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk to me about the pandemic because you're growing this company during the pandemic and you had to make a lot of decisions. How did the pandemic impact the focus of UNest?

Ksenia Yudina:
Sure. So the first one, as I mentioned, that big pivot from 529s to UTMA, which is a different type of account that allows parents invest for other priorities for their kids. Another interesting observation during the pandemic was that gifting became super popular on the platform. So UNest gives this ability to gift for birthdays or other holidays electronically. And when people were hit with pandemic, a lot of times they were not able to celebrate holidays in person. That feature became extremely popular, just sending a quick gift to the child in your life.

Ksenia Yudina:
And another interesting thing during the pandemic and just most recently last year was huge demand for crypto assets. We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? Overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto. So that's what we're doing right now. We're actually launching it in few months.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, you have a waitlist for this product, which is kind of mind blowing to me. Tell us about this new crypto product because I know a lot of people are interested in it. And why move into digital assets, especially as you're still a growing company?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah. As we look into the future, the next 10, 15, 20 years, people realize that crypto has a lot of potential. And it does have a lot of interest right now. Everyone reads the news. Everyone expressed some interest in buying, holding crypto. And sometimes when people are hesitant to buy it for themselves, when they think about their kids and that long, long time horizon, they understand that this is the asset class that has the highest probability of appreciation. It just reduces risk, right? Like when you think about holding something that might be volatile in the short term, but you think about holding it for the next 10, 15, 20 years, all of a sudden you realize that you can withstand that risk.

Ksenia Yudina:
Another observation is that parents want to learn more about crypto. We would like to provide about 30 coins on UNest platform, and we will provide educational component so they can actually learn what each coin means and make informed decision when they buy something for their kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that educational component is so important. Before we wrap up, I also want to touch on, there was just a piece in Fortune about how you've been helping employees in Ukraine and Russia. Tell us what you've been doing to support them since the war started. I know this is something obviously, you're from Eastern Europe, this is something that is really in your heart these days.

Ksenia Yudina:
When I started UNest, the goal was to create a truly global company. So we hired people from all around the world. And today, I'm proud to say that we have team members in U.S., Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Belarus. And as situation in Ukraine escalated, our top priority as a company was safety of our team members. So we acted very quickly to relocate them to safe zones outside of those impacted by the war and provide financial assistance to our employees and their families.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you very much. This has been so interesting. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and about UNest, which I want to tell everyone, by the way, is unest.co, co not com, unest.co.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. Yes. Thank you. They can find out more about us and actually get on the crypto waiting list on our website, unest.co. And just search for us in the App Store or Google Play. You know, the app is available. They can read some reviews. They can learn a little bit more about the product if they just simply go to the App Store or Google Play.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social media handles. I forgot to ask you.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, it just @unest. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Ksenia Yudina:
Oh, thank you so much, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So friends, now I'm thinking after this interview, if we're on the fence about crypto, is the best way to manage risk to create the longest time horizon by investing for the next generation? I'm curious to hear what you guys think. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram or Bobby Rebell on Twitter. And I'm now on TikTok. They said it would never happen. But please check out my videos there. It is an understatement to say I could really use your support. And by the way, my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, makes a great gift for Mother's Day, Father's Day, and of course, for parents of high school and college graduates. Don't just get presents for the graduates, get presents for the parents, right? Give it to each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, make sure to check out UNest at unest.co. That's unest.co without the M. And download the app to get on the Legacy waiting list and enter their giveaways. Big thanks to UNest founder Ksenia Yudina for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobborebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobby Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

As much as we try to do right, we all fall into some common money mistakes. Ash Exantus joins us with 3 to avoid, and a special challenge for ambitious grownups.

3 money mistakes to avoid

• Mistake 1: working hard for money- instead of letting money work for you

• Mistake 2: having the wrong number of bank accounts

• Mistake 3: saving money - you should actually invest first

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• Max Out Your Income Challenge

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

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1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really loved doing it, and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ash Cash:
Instead of focusing on active income, meaning, working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things.

Ash Cash:
Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard. But together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grown-up friends, get ready to smile and be really excited about your money and the potential to have more of it. No get-rich-quick ideas here. You know I would not take you guys there. But today's guest Ash Cash Exantus is going to help us all see the money mistakes that we make and also provide some easy solutions that can work for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Exantus, AKA Ash Cash, is often called the Hiphop Financial Motivator because he uses a culturally-responsive approach to teach financial literacy. He's also a speaker and a bestselling author of many, many books. We're going to talk about that. Lots of books, lots of money coming from books for him. He is also very much a financial grownup you will learn a lot from. Here is Ash Cash Exantus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Cash Exantus, you're a financial grownup. I'm so happy I finally got you on the program. Welcome.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We were joking before I started recording. I have been trying to get you on, literally, for years since we met at Shannon McLay's Financial Gym, which is now virtual, so hey, Shannon. So glad you're here. What have you been up to the last few years? You have, oh, I don't know, 11 books going on?

Ash Cash:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, just writing books and making sure people get their minds and their money right so they could live in abundance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is apropos. Your company is called Mind Right Money Management. Tell us quickly about that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think a lot of times people always think about the practical things as it relates to managing money, but they have to focus on a mindset first.

Ash Cash:
So when I started doing this work, I said, no, I can't. Everybody wants to lead with practicality, but the practicality is really the mindset. So mindset or Mind Right Money Management is really a company that teaches how to change your mind in order to manage your money the right way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so important, and one of the important mindsets, it's also to understand that as grown-ups, we make mistakes. It happens all the time, and it's part of the learning process, and that it's a really important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought with you three mistakes that we grown-ups need to be aware of so that we don't make them. We probably are making a lot of them already. I mean, I know mistake number two is something I may be doing. I'm excited to hear what you have to say about it so let's dive right in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Mistake number one is working hard for money, instead of letting money work for you. Tell us more about that and what we need to be aware of.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Number one, society, school, everything teaches us that we have to go to work, work hard. Then once we make some money, we buy things with the money, and then we continue that cycle of working hard, working hard, we put a little bit away.

Ash Cash:
But the truth of the matter is that if we want to create financial freedom, we want to build wealth, we have to change that relationship with money. Instead of focusing on active income, meaning working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things. Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give me a practical, real-world example of that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Young people are taught to buy a home first to live in, but you can house hack. So imagine a young 20-something-year-old or any age, to be a hundred percent honest, if they're saving to buy to become a homeowner, instead of buying a home to actually live in, you buy a home, a multi-family home and you rent it out. So now, immediately, you have achieved mortgage freedom because you live in one apartment, you rent out the other apartment, and then what you're renting that other apartment for pays for your mortgage and so now that rent is covered.

Ash Cash:
I wrote 11 books. Books are a great example. You write it one time, and so it took me active work for me to physically write these books. But after the books are done, you sell them over and over and over again. My first book, I wrote that in 2009, I still get checks to this day from something I did over 12 years ago.

Ash Cash:
So those are two high level and low level, if you will, examples of how I took active work to make money, but then now that asset is paying me over and over and over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Mistake number two, this is the one that has me sort of second-guessing myself. Mistake number two is having the wrong number of bank accounts. I've never given it that much thought. Tell us more about how many bank accounts should we have.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Everyone should have four bank accounts. Most people have the two. Mainly, people have one, they have the checking account. Some people have a checking and a savings account, but the savings account never accumulates anything because once they start to save, they get the buy one, get one from Macy's and then they charge so much through the checking account.

Ash Cash:
Everyone should have four accounts. You should have a spending account, and so that's the money that you allocate to spend money, and so whatever your bills, once you start allocating things, you want to have a bill account.

Ash Cash:
Let me back up a little bit. You should have a bill account first, and your bill account is where the money is going to go to pay your bill. So you should have a debit card attached to that bill account, everything should be automated, paid online.

Ash Cash:
You should have a spending account. You should have money put aside whatever the percentage is to spend, and that's in a checking account.

Ash Cash:
You should have a savings account, and that savings account is going to be for when you separate your budget from short-term spending, long-term, midterm goals. You should have a savings account and that money goes there.

Ash Cash:
Your fourth account should be a financial freedom fund. People call it an emergency fund. Words have power so we're not calling any emergencies into our lives so we call it a financial freedom fund. Every time you get paid, you should have a percentage of money that goes into your financial freedom fund.

Ash Cash:
But here's the kicker, Bobbi. Your financial freedom fund should not be in the same bank that you have your checking account. It could be a online bank. It could be a regional bank. I do not want you to have a debit card attached to it. I actually want you to make it so inconvenient that you don't even remember that you have this account. In fact, when you get paid, I want you to automate it somehow where the money goes automatically to that account and allow that money to grow. As that money grows, you use that to increase your wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing all this, but, okay, I feel like I just got a homework assignment from you because I don't have my funds set up that way, and I bet a lot of our grown-up audience does not. So this is a lot to really think about and really incorporate into our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third one is you lose money saving money. Invest first, save last.

Ash Cash:
Yes, yes, yes, and this is old advice. So I was a banker for 15 years, and I remember when I first started my career as a banker in 1999, that was the last time rates were probably like 4, 5% in the CD. Since then, you are, literally, losing money if you keep it in a bank. Especially now with the economy being what it is, I think inflation is over 7%, which means that if you're not at least making 7% in your checking account or your savings account, you're losing money.

Ash Cash:
When you think about investing, whatever investing means for you, whether it's index funds, whether direct stocks, mutual funds, whatever it is, if you look from a long-term investing perspective, the average is going to always beat inflation. So if we are looking to truly manage our money the right way by looking at or activating old advice, we're literally losing money.

Ash Cash:
So we have to invest first. Invest your money first. When I say savings, yes, you'll have that financial freedom fund because you want to have some liquidity. Things happen and so you want to have some liquidity, you want to have some cash available if things happen. But minus the financial freedom fund, let's start getting into investing as soon as possible. Because once you start investing, you take advantage of compound interests. You think about dollar-cost averaging.

Ash Cash:
You think about this year, stocks have been a rollercoaster. Some people get afraid at this time. But companies are, literally, on sale right now. So if you do what's called dollar-cost averaging and you're like, "You know what, let me start investing now," the companies that you would've gotten at $100 or maybe at $20 right now, you better buy them up. Then by the time the economy rebounds, your account's going to start looking nice, really, really nice.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it is important to dollar-cost average and to buy when you do see value, of course. I know you would also counsel people if you're buying individual stocks, make sure that they're down because of things like the overall market tone, not because of a company-specific reason so I just want to add that caveat in for people.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest mistake you think people made in the pandemic in terms of financially? Because it really threw so many people for a loop and a lot of us really, you talk about the stock market, we thought the market would crater during the pandemic, and it did for like a hot second and then it came right back. So I'm just curious to know your observations, what you're seeing among your clients and everybody that you work with.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think the number one money mistake that was made during the pandemic, we didn't pivot fast enough.

Ash Cash:
There's four types of people in the world. You have consumers, producers, investors and philanthropists. Most of us are just consumers, and I think that the pandemic gave us a great opportunity to become producers and investors, and we didn't pivot fast enough. We knew the world how normal it was, and we thought normal was going to come back where normal was never coming back.

Ash Cash:
So people got so used to meetings on Zoom and digital that if whatever our expertise was, if we jumped on it and said, "You know what, we're going to start providing that from a digital standpoint," there were so many digital millionaires made during the pandemic and I think that was the biggest mistake was that we were trying to hold on when it was time to kind of double down on our expertise and reach more of the world because everybody was home. Everybody didn't know what was next, and we could have reached our consumers faster had we pivoted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we all need you on our side. Before I let you go, you have a challenge for our listeners.

Ash Cash:
Yes. So I have the Max Out Your Income Challenge, and it's, literally, helping people do exactly that pivot. Wherever you are in the income spectrum there is always that next level. So I've been able to max out my income through books, creating 15 streams of income from books. So if you go to maxoutyourincome.com, you could join the five-day challenge and take your income to the next level.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, congratulations on all, and thank you so much for joining us. Where can people reach you besides, obviously, we know where to get to that challenge, where can people reach Ash Cash?

Ash Cash:
Yeah. You could follow me or go to my website, iamashcash.com or follow me on all social media platforms at iamashcash.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grown-ups, I think we can all agree Ash Cash has a way of getting us newly re-motivated to take action on our finances. I think my favorite takeaway was when Ash reframed the idea of an emergency fund as a financial freedom fund. It just seems more optimistic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your favorite takeaway? DM me on Instagram at bobbirebell1 and on Twitter at bobbirebell and let me know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you who have bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I have another ask, but it's a really easy one and it doesn't cost a thing. Please leave a five-star review on Amazon. You can keep it short and sweet, but having more reviews makes a big difference in getting the book discovered so we can help more people learn about money and generational wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of generational wealth, I would love to come speak to your company or organization and book clubs. I have some great virtual and in-person programs that you can learn more about by going to the Work with Bobbi tab on the top right of my website, bobbirebell.com. That's B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com. You can also get show notes and transcripts of every podcast right on my website and check out my adulting merch store, GrownupGear for fun gifts. If you're going to graduations, bachelor and bachelorette parties, housewarming parties, birthday parties, whatever you're celebrating, we've got good stuff to give your friends and relatives. Super cute fun stuff to make everyone smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, I wish all of you well, and especially a big thanks to our guest Ash Cash Exantus for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and, you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grown-up friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Everyday we are seeing higher prices on everything from gas to the food we eat. But all is not lost. There are opportunities not just to cut costs as a consumer, but also to be smart as an investor. We talk with Andrew Graham of Jackson Square Capital for tips on how to navigate investing with inflation on the rise. 

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Follow Andrew!

• Twitter - @jacksonsq_cap

• LinkedIn - @jacksonsquarecap

• Website - https://jacksonsquarecap.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them, and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So, I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Andrew Graham:
With elevated levels of inflation, with higher bond yields, that's a recipe probably for outperformance in value sectors. And the value sectors presently are: financials, materials, and energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because, you know what? Grown-up life is really hard but, together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends. I hope everyone's enjoying spring, wherever you are. It's a great time for a road trip, if you can afford the gas. And that is not the only thing with sky high prices. I mean, looking for a home these days can make even the most tenacious grown-ups feel like giving up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where is the upside? Well, there are investment opportunities here, and that's what we're going to talk about today. Our guest is Andrew Graham. He is the founder and managing partner at Jackson Square Capital. And it was really a privilege to be able to bring you his insights that he shares with his high-net-worth clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing to pay special attention to in the interview is what he has to say about the kinds of banks that are going to outperform and why. We also talk about energy and why that could be a place for dividends and a hedge against inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andrew also has some compelling things to say about the housing market and whether buying a home will become more affordable anytime soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listen closely. There's a lot to learn from this guy. Here is Jackson Square Capital's, Andrew Graham.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andrew Graham, you're a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Andrew Graham:
Thank you. I'm glad to be on the pod.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so happy to have you. So, let me just give a quick introduction. You're the founder and managing partner of Jackson Square Capital, an investment and financial advisory, out in San Francisco, one of my favorite cities.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked you to come on because so many of our listeners are concerned about inflation. They go to the grocery store. They go to the gas pump. The prices are just frightening, more and more, but there's some upside to this when it comes to investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, so, I asked you to come and talk about some strategies and some sort of mindset that we can take to understand that there are things about inflation that can present opportunity and, certainly, in some ways, at least mitigate some of the damage that we're seeing in our day-to-day consumer life with some wealth management strategies. So, thank you for coming on.

Andrew Graham:
My pleasure. So, I can start with inflation, just really quick. For us, in our world, as an in investment manager, our visibility really extends. It extends six months, for sure. And then, the further you go, the less clear things become, but we can kind of see out nine months and feel pretty good, forecasting nine months forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with equity. Where are the best sectors, in terms of equity investments for your money, as inflation continues to be a concern?

Andrew Graham:
Yeah. I think the best places to be, in terms of maybe equity style, rather than growth, sort of tech-centric portfolios, we have ... These are all household names now over the last 12 years. Everybody's made sure they've owned plenty of them. It's been pretty apparent that that where ... that was the only game in town.

Andrew Graham:
But with elevated levels of inflation, with higher bond yields, that's a recipe probably for outperformance in value sectors. And the value sectors presently are: financials, materials, and energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so let's break that down. Okay. So, let's start with financials.

Andrew Graham:
Banks have what's called ... make-most-of-their-money, the bulk of their money, on net interest margins. It's the difference between the rate that they borrow or receive their money from the Fed, and the rate that they earn on their loans.

Andrew Graham:
And, so, as short-term loans reset, they don't even need, really, to drive loan growth, although we see the beginnings of that happening in December and, again, here in Q1. They don't need to really get it out of loan growth. They can just reset their short-term loans, as they mature for those people rolling them over, and those loans at higher levels just reflecting where bond yields, short-term bond yields, are.

Andrew Graham:
So, again, deposits, they're not going to pay anything on deposits, let's assume. And they're going to be earning more for their loans. So, their net interest income, which is, again, the bulk of their earnings at a bank, is going to rise. And I see that going on for a while now.

Andrew Graham:
We, at Jackson Square Capital, have a preference for, sort of share takers, when it comes to the banks. And those are generally the regional banks, so not the super gigantic money centers that have been gobbling up community banks over the last, whatever, 20 or 30 years. It's the regional banks.

Andrew Graham:
And the ones that are most attractive, in our opinion, are the ones that are sort of high tech, high touch. And you can see them, just taking share in major markets like this one. So, in San Francisco where we sit, First Republic has been taking share for years. And we just see that continuing with lots of loan growth. So, we like First Republic, and we also like Silicon Valley Bank, also local. Again, taking share, lots of loan growth, lots of private equity cash, on the sidelines.

Andrew Graham:
And as that private equity money gets deployed in investments, they're going to make what they're called capital call loans, which are short-term loans. And, again, those will reset at higher rates.

Andrew Graham:
So, probably the bank that's the most sensitive to interest rates and that benefits the most, is Silicon Valley Bank.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. And the second equity sector that you mentioned to pay attention to is materials. Tell us more about that and why.

Andrew Graham:
So, materials are going to have the pricing power, the ability to benefit from their own pricing power. They have relative ... for sort of fixed costs. Most of these plants are built out. Some of these chemical companies, for example, Olin. There are some big barriers to entry. Some of them are dangerous products to make, but they are very necessary, and they have mostly industrial uses.

Andrew Graham:
So, if we're right, and inflation stays elevated, and the cycle has further to go. That's the recovery cycle, and we think it does, and I'll go into that if you'd like. Then there's more upside for those companies, as they have pricing power. And then there's an industrial, sort of recovery, narrative that goes on as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the third area you mentioned was energy.

Andrew Graham:
We expect energy stocks to outperform over the next, that six to nine-month window we discussed, and maybe beyond. There's some structural supply issues going on in the industry where, either from political pressures or pressure from shareholders to return capital, many of these oil and gas exploration and production companies, for example, are being incented to return capital to shareholders, rather than develop new production and drill new wells, for example.

Andrew Graham:
So, we expect, even if ... And we do expect U.S. oil and gas production to rise this year, in 2022, but we don't see it matching demand levels. So, look for elevated WTI crude prices, and beneficiaries there include the majors that pay big dividend yields, like the Exxon and the Chevron of the world, of course. And then in exploration and production companies, maybe like Marathon Petroleum, Ovintiv, also, is a midcap name that stands out.

Andrew Graham:
If oil prices stay just above $65, modeling that out, based on their ... based on Ovintiv's free cash flow generation from the past, they're going to have the ability to pay back the entire market cap of the company within five years. So, lots of opportunity there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I think, with respect to stocks in general, you've talked about the importance of paying attention to companies that give money back to shareholders, whether that be in the form of stock buybacks or in dividends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that is something that, at the end of the day, money is money, and they're giving people money. That's something that investors should pay attention to.

Andrew Graham:
I think so. I would say, with one qualifier, I think it works best in that energy sector. And the reason is, is that the decarbonization efforts are there for a reason.

Andrew Graham:
By the time you get out, 10 years, and again, I know we wish it was a shorter window, but saying you move out further and further, demand for alternative energy sources actually starts to kind of come together. The demand is there now. The problem is, there's just not the capacity to meet it. And, so, demand chooses the old forms right now. But as the substitutes become available, I think we'll see a shift.

Andrew Graham:
So, in most cases, our preference, when I was talking about banks, I chose two banks that don't return capital to shareholder in any big way. As a matter of fact, they raise capital. And the reason why our preference there, is those are longer-term investments. Both of those banks have outperformed the large cap money centers over the last two decades, and we expect it to continue in the current environment, probably at an accelerated rate because they do have loan growth.

Andrew Graham:
But I think an energy return of capital is a good plan, and it's a good thing, whether it's in the form of dividends or share repurchases and just, what are you going to do with all that free cash flow generation? So, it's got to go to the shareholders. And it's a meaningful way, I think, of hedging against elevated rates of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's just touch quickly on real estate because there's so many people frustrated by higher home prices. And look, we have to be realistic. You probably aren't going to make a ton of money if you're buying a home, just to live in or as an investment, anytime short term. But that doesn't mean it's not an area that people should be paying attention to.

Andrew Graham:
Yeah. If you look at the supply and demand within the housing world, there's just ... There is limited supply, and demand has been sort of running at a accelerated clip since there was glimmers of hope the pandemic might be ending.

Andrew Graham:
So, you've seen some sharp upticks in almost all geographic areas in this country. And I don't know if that's going to slow down here in the near term. So, we're kind of modeling in 12% home price appreciation for this year. And we think the economy can withstand that kind of appreciation. So, I don't think the affordability factor is going to mean much here in the near term.

Andrew Graham:
And in the short term, as bond yields rise, inflation's going up, so bond yields are rising. As bond yields rise, there's sort of a get-it-while-you-can attitude on the part of consumers to lock in their mortgage rates now, versus six, nine months, well into the future.

Andrew Graham:
So, you'll see, I think, accelerated pick-up in housing demand as, in the short term, as bond yields have already risen. And I think they can ... there's further room for bond yields to go higher.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, continued frustration for people looking to buy a home, but good news for real estate investors.

Andrew Graham:
I think so. Again, eventually, price cures price, but affordability, even though it's the worst it's been since the global financial crisis, affordability measures, they are nowhere near where they were leading into the global financial crisis.

Andrew Graham:
So, I don't think it's a cycle killing kind of thing, like I said before. And, so, yeah. It's going to be competitive, I think. Home-buying, home shopping is going to be competitive for the near term, and maybe even accelerate here, as bond yields have gone up, and people feel a need to get it done now, rather than later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Andrew, where can people learn more about you and Jackson Square Capital?

Andrew Graham:
You can go onto our website, of course, which is jacksonsquarecap.com. I write a daily email, which I think helps me stay informed. It's called Morning Notes, and you can sign up there if you'd like to receive it, but happy to be of help today. Thanks for having me on. I've been told I have a face for podcasting, so this is such a [inaudible 00:15:05].

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a lot of fun to have on. Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew Graham:
Anytime.

Bobbi Rebell:
There was a lot to take away from that. You were probably tempted to take notes, but if you're a regular listener, you know don't have to. We always have you covered with show notes and full transcripts on my website. Go to bobbirebell.com. That's B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
There, you will, of course, also find information about my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, as well as how to be in touch if you would like me to come speak to your organization. I have both virtual and in-person programs, that you can learn more about by clicking on Work with Bobbi. It's the tab on the upper right corner of my website. I hope to hear from you guys soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, I want to hear what you are investing in, as inflation continues to rise. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, I did what I didn't think I would ever do. I opened a TikTok account. I am still figuring it out. So, check out my videos, and give me some pointers. The handle is bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Jackson Square Capital's, Andrew Graham, for sharing some great insights on investing and helping us all be financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey, as a financial grown-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grown-up friends, and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grown-ups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart it out! Bobbi shares some background and reveals the key takeaways from the book. 

Tips to Launch financial Grownups

1. Make it about them- not you

2. Listen to them if you want them to listen to you

3. Don’t be the solution- help them find solutions

4. Be clear with your expectations and also the support to get there

5. When it comes to investing- focus on risk tolerance 
   

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Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Grownups! If you are listening to this on Tuesday March 22, 2022 this is a day I have been working towards literally for years. My new book: Launching Financial Grownups: Live your richest life by helping your (almost) adult kids become everyday Money Smart is officially out!

In this episode I am going to be sharing my top tips to launch financial grownups but first: 

I know we have been getting some new listeners so I want to bring you up to speed with a little background on me and what we talk about here on the podcast. 

I was for many years a business journalist- I covered mainly stock market news and economics - I interviewed CEO’s and talked a lot about what the fed was doing. I started at CNBC out of college, went on to CNN, PBS and finally Reuters were I spent more than a decade as a global business news tv reporter and anchor. I also was able to write a column on personal finance that was syndicated which was so much fun. But a few years ago I decided to switch gears- and become an author. My first book was How to Be a Financial Grownup. I interviewed what I would call the celebrities of the business world- people like Kevin O’Leary from Shark Tank, Tony Robbins, Designer Cynthia Rowley and I even got some money tips from Drew Barrymore who is actually quite the business woman.

After the book I decided that even though I knew a lot about money I wanted to really be confident when people asked me stuff so I went and became a Certified Financial Planner, also known as a CFP®. Let me tell you, it’s a lot of studying and work, and then at the end of it all you take this super hard test that almost half the people taking it fail. To this day, I consider passing the CFP exam to be my biggest academic and career accomplishment- even more than the books or my college degree from the University of Pennsylvania (Go Quakers) 

So fast forward: Books take time and Launching Financial Grownups was no exception. It was inspired by my own experiences- and challenges.  And full disclosure- stuff still comes up today that it not easy - not at all- with launching my own (almost) adults. 

Like they say on the bachelor- it’s a journey. Oh- yes- I got back into the bachelor over the pandemic. I’m team Gabby all the way. But we digress.

So it’s a whole book but here are a few highlights just to get the conversation going about what it means to launch financial grownups. 

Tip # 1. Make it about them- not you

You have your dreams for them- we all do. And you know what’s best for them. But these are not little kids- your children are adults and you need step away from the mirror and stop seeing their life as a reflection of you. Stand beside them and look through the window and see the possibilities that they are seeing from the their perspective. 

Tip #2: Listen to them if you want them to listen to you. So someone recently asked me about a script to get their kids to listen. Ok. Consider a script with lots of white space and room for improv. This is something Tori Dunlap of Her First 100k talks bout in my book- we as parents need to make sure we are actively listening and hearing and processing what our almost adults are sharing with us. If we tune them out- how are we surprised that they tune US out. Right?

Tip #3: Don’t be the solution - instead help them find solutions. Let’s say your almost adult comes to you and needs money for a project that is super important to them. You could write them a check- and some of us might even dig into our savings because we really want to be there for our kids. Instead- maybe brain storm with them to help them find other ways to fund the project- maybe a go fund me type page, maybe a side hustle, maybe look for grants from non profits or the government. 

Tip #4 Keep your expectations high but also realistic- and make sure they know you have the confidence to believe in them that they can do it. Don’t offer help your (almost) adults without them asking though. Wait for it. The ask may not come and that is good for them. It may be hard if you feel you aren’t needed. But that’s on us as parents. We want to feel needed- and we are- but how we are needed changes. 

Tip #5: When it comes to investing- don’t judge specific investments. Focus on broader skills and strategies. For example, teach them about diversification. If they want to invest in NFT’s who are we to say that’s not going to pay off- we may even have some ourselves. But make sure it is the right percentage of their assets. Same goes for making sure they are tuned in to their personal risk tolerance. And because time is on their side, they can afford to take more risk than us. Let them know that- oh- and no “I told you so’s” if their investments don’t pan out. 

For more I hope all of you pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups- it is on sale now. And then tell me your tips on Launching Financial Grownups- on instagram I am at bobbirebell1 on twitter at bobbirebell. 

I also would love to share more about the book with you, your company, or your school or non profit so be in touch- go to my website and click on the work with bobbi tab at the top right to be in touch. 

And as always show notes and full transcripts are available on my website bobbirebell.com where you can sign up for the newsletter where I curate media that can help us all live our best grownup lives. 

Thanks to all of you for your kind notes and all the likes- and for being financial grownups. 

Cameron Huddleston is back on the podcast to share how we can help our older loved ones with daily money matters and other financial support- even if we are not prepared. 

Tips on how to protect your parents and grandparents money

• Learn what you can be doing to prepare right now.

• What you should be trying to get our older relatives to do.

• If you find yourself having to help, but you haven’t done any prep work, what can you do to from there.

• How can you be there for those you love, but also maintain your own life?

• Learn about some financial resources that are out there that you can utilize

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Follow Cameron!

• Instagram - @cameronkhuddleston

• Facebook - @CameronHuddlestonMoneyExpert

• Twitter - @CHLebedinsky

• LinkedIn - @cameron-huddleston

• Website - https://cameronhuddleston.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Money Smart. I'm excited to share with all of you and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Cameron Huddleston:
I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea. And someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this

Bobbi Rebell:
Brace yourself, my grownup friends. Most of us are so used to thinking of our parents as our safety net and our support system. There are going to be seasons of our life, maybe for you it has already happened, when we may need to step up, take care of our older loved ones, not just managing their healthcare, but also their money related life stuff. Bills don't just get paid. Someone needs to make sure their lives, their financial lives specifically, are kept running and in order. And I'm going to make sure all of you are prepared if you invest the time to listen to this week's episode, because nothing says grown up like having to take care of your older loved ones, whether it be parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or just special people in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cameron Huddleston is the author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk. She is now the director of education and content for Carefull, that is with two Ls, and she has a lot of great advice and wisdom on this topic to share with us. Here is Cameron Huddleston. Cameron Huddleston. Welcome back to the podcast. You are still very much such a financial grownup. Nice to see you, my friend.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you so much for having me back on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked you to come back on because I want you to talk about something that is really top of mind for so many people. With COVID 19, we've all been more in touch than ever with different special members of our family, often older members of our family, and much more aware of what's going on with them, checking in with them about their health. But also this has opened up an opportunity for new awareness and new discussions and new planning when it comes to money matters for our older loved ones. You, by the way, since we last talked now work with a company that really helped people with that. Tell us what you've been up to give us a little update and a little context on why you're so interested in this topic.

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. Well, of course it's personal for me because my mom had Alzheimer's disease and I was her caregiver for 12 years. Even though I was providing hands on care for about four years, for eight years, I was managing her finances while she was in a memory care facility. In addition to that, I am working for a new company called Carefull with two Ls, and Carefull is the first service that's built specifically to help organize and protect aging adults' daily finances. It's desktop service and a mobile app. You can link it to your bank and your credit of card accounts. And it's going to monitor those accounts 24/7 for common money mistakes, sign of fraud. There's also credit monitoring and personal information monitoring. And so you get alerts when it spots something unusual and it's really a great way to protect your finances as you age, protect them against fraud and protect them against those late payments that you might be accidentally making or not realizing that you're making because there's a cognitive decline issue.

Bobbi Rebell:
We can see each other. We're both nodding. I mean, it happens a lot and it happens a lot in a way that we don't always discover until it's too late. My husband had a friend who found out the friend's parents had literally been scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars. And it was not that recent. And it's hard to even tell whether the parents knew it happened and were embarrassed and didn't want to tell anyone or were not even aware. So it's really important that we stay on top of the finances of those that we love and also that we use the tools that are now available, that weren't available until recently to automate that and have these digital check-ins that we can do.

Bobbi Rebell:
But let's talk more about the broad picture. I mean, we think about, for example, I pay for long term healthcare insurance. So if something happens, my husband and I will have some money that will pay for us to be in a long-term care facility. So we are used to thinking about physical care for older people, but we don't think about having this financial safety net. Tell us more about where to even begin with this if you are someone that has older people in your life that you care about, whether they be relatives or just people that you love.

Cameron Huddleston:
Really, it all begins with conversations. Oftentimes we don't want to broach conversations about money because they seem really awkward, and you might have been raised in a household where your parents told you that it was impolite to talk about money. So the idea of going to your parents and saying, "Hey, mom and dad, I want to discuss your finances with you," can sound really intimidating, but this is where it has to start. These conversations are so important and you need to be having them before there's any sort of healthcare emergency, before there's any sort of financial emergency, because if you wait to have these conversations, at that point, it can be too late. There's not going to be a plan to deal with the emergency. Emotions are going to be running high. And who wants to talk about finances when there is some sort of healthcare emergency? And the bigger issue is that there might not be the legal documents in place that give you right to step in and make financial and healthcare decisions for your parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
What specifically should people be doing in advance to be prepared, one, for the big picture things that you're talking about, and two, for just the daily money matters that they might need to step in and help with?

Cameron Huddleston:
An easy way to kind of get this conversation started and to get information that you need is to ask your parents about what if scenarios. We're still in a pandemic, right? And so what if, mom or dad, you end up getting COVID and you're in the hospital and you can't pay your bills for a week or for two weeks while you're in the hospital or longer? What do I need to know about making sure as bills get paid? Asking about these sort of what if scenarios is a very easy and natural way to start the conversation.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if we get the pushback? Because that does happen a lot. I have older relatives in my family that will not talk about their money. It is no one else's business. I don't know why, but it happens. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Cameron Huddleston:
You are not alone. It does happen. You know, fortunately I've heard that most parents are willing, but of course not all. And when you get pushed back, a couple things that you can try. If your parents or aging loved ones don't want to tell you information, maybe they would be willing to write it down. That allows them to maintain control over the information. So say, "Look, I get it. It's awkward. And you probably don't think it's any of my business right now. And really it isn't right now, but it might be some day. And so when that time comes, it would be nice if I had a list that I could go to of your accounts and how to access those accounts and what bills you pay and how they're paid and where the estate planning documents are and where the insurance policies are. Make this list for me, please. Put it someplace safe and tell me how to access it." If they are not willing to listen to you, they might listen to a third party. Maybe you reach out to their accountant, their financial advisor, their doctor, even.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about if you're in a situation where you do need to step in and you do not have this information? Where can you get it? What resources are out there?

Cameron Huddleston:
So you're going to have to play detective, most likely. And the key thing is, first of all, to find out what sort of estate planning documents do they have? Have they named you or someone else in your family power of attorney to make financial decisions for them? You cannot talk to your parents' bank, their insurance companies, their credit card companies, unless you have been named power of attorney and you have that document. So you go to your parents' house and you check the desk drawers, you check the filing cabinet if there's a filing cabinet, you check the closets and you search for these estate planning documents. Maybe they have a home safe. Maybe you know who their attorney is. And so you call up the attorney and say, "Hey, do you know if mom has named a power of attorney? Do you know who that person is? Do you have any idea where that document might be?"

Cameron Huddleston:
Because typically attorneys are not going to hang on to these documents in their office. And so you start there and maybe you don't know this information from your mom, but maybe your mom has happened to say something to your aunt and your aunt knows, "Oh yeah, I know she did that a long time ago and it's in the home safe. And here's the combination. She happened to give it to me." So you play detective. That's where you start. And then you're going to have to go through the may to figure out what sort of bills are paid. If you have any way to access their computer, for example, and you can check emails to see what sort of statements that they're getting electronically.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are some of the red flags to know that you should get proactively involved, even if they're not in the sort of distress situation that we were alluding to earlier?

Cameron Huddleston:
Well, here's something interesting Bobbi, the researchers at John's Hopkins found that those with Alzheimer's disease and related dementias show a pattern of missed and late payments up to six years before there's ever a diagnosis. So your parent, your aging loved one, could be making all sorts of money mistakes before you even start to see really obvious signs of memory loss. Obviously at that point, the damage could be severe. I spoke with a woman whose father had early onset Alzheimer's disease. This guy was super financially savvy, but because he was starting to experience cognitive decline, he wasn't making the mortgage payment. The mom had no idea, and someone shows up at the door of their house one day saying the house is going to be auctioned the next day for failure to pay the mortgage. And they were shocked. No one had any idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they had the money to pay it. He just wasn't paying it.

Cameron Huddleston:
Right. He had just forgotten to send in the payments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Cameron Huddleston:
So here are some of the signs that you can look for that your parent might be experiencing cognitive decline, and if there's cognitive decline, that means their financial decision making ability is already impaired. So obvious ones like notices for late payments, collection notices that you see sitting on the dining room table, parents not paying the bills. And if you know they've got money to pay the bills, there's something going on here. If you go out to dinner with mom and dad and they're offering to pay for dinner, but then they can't figure out how to compute a tip or they can't figure out, let's say the check is $50 and they're pulling out a 20 thinking that's going to cover. So there's obviously signs with math and the inability to handle just simple mathematical tasks.

Cameron Huddleston:
Other mathematical errors that might be obvious. If they're writing a check and they can't remember how to fill out that check or how to put the date on the check, this is a sign that something's going on. But then also if you're going to your parents' house and you notice that it was once always tidy and organized, and now it seems to be disorganized, there's plates in this sink, there's just piles of clothes everywhere and you know that they're still physically capable of handling those tasks, it could be a sign that there is cognitive decline because familiar tasks become more difficult to complete. If there are sticky notes or reminder notes all over the house, and they're telling and your parents how to do things that seem really obvious, like how to turn on the cable TV, this is a sign that something's going on and you shouldn't ignore these signs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm just sitting here absorbing all of this. Anything else I should have asked you?

Cameron Huddleston:
Here's one more thing to look out for. If your parents mail is full of charitable donation requests, or a lot of those sweepstakes entry forms, if they're getting a lot of those, that's a good sign that your parents have already been making donations. Their names are on lists and charities and other organizations are reaching out to them. And if you see a lot of those gifts that charities send, like a blanket, the little stickers that you can put on your envelopes with your address, calendars, if there are lots of those gifts that are showing up in your parents' house, that also means that they are making donations. Now, if you know your parents are givers naturally, but they seem to be giving a lot more money, that's a sign that their financial decision making ability is impaired potentially. And again, you've got to get involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You have to just not always assume everything is okay just because they tell you that on your weekly phone call. You need to get involved, ask the right questions and show up in person sometimes, or make sure that if you have siblings or other relatives that can come in and do things, like physically look at the mail, because a lot of older people do still get physical bills. That's a really important thing to be able to check and make sure you guys put together a safety net as grownups to take care of the people that you love in your life. Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where of people learn more about what you're off to and about Carefull?

Cameron Huddleston:
Certainly. So you can find out more about me at CameronHuddleston.com and you can learn about Carefull at GetCarefull.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Cameron.

Cameron Huddleston:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really appreciate Cameron being so candid about her own life. It's tough. It's also stuff that we need to hear and we need to hear real examples of how this impacts our lives. Hopefully we've inspired some of you to take action and have those uncomfortable conversations, and maybe they won't be as cringey as we fear. And by the way, this is something that I struggle with. It's not always successful. So you may have to kind of regroup, give it a little bit of time and just try again. It's not easy. I would love to hear your tips on getting past awkward conversations when it comes to talking to parents. And then also, when it comes to talking to younger generations about money stuff. That is a lot of the focus of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I am both excited and really, really nervous, actually really nervous for it finally, coming out. Years in the making.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of free giveaways to get people to pre-order. I'm putting my time, and yes, money instead into this podcast and my newsletter, which remain free for all of you. And I really want to keep my focus on keeping those two things the highest quality that I possibly can and not being distracted. So that's what I'm doing. So what I ask all of you in return is that you help me get the word out by pre-ordering the book and also encouraging others that you think might like it to do so as well. You can learn more about the book on my website, BobbiRebell.com/LaunchingFinancialGrownups. And by the way, you can also sign up for my free newsletter there as well on the website. Big thanks as always to my dear friend, Cameron Huddleston, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

There’s nothing grownup about having bad debt. Marcus Garrett joins us to share how he got into debt, how his parents helped him become a financial grownup,  and his 4 step strategy to become debt free. 

4 Steps to Become D.E.B.T. Free

• Define the problem

• Establish a plan

• Build a budget

• Trust the process
  
  
  

---

Follow Marcus!

• Instagram - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Facebook - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Twitter - @TheMarcusGarret

• LinkedIn - @themarcusgarrett

• YouTube - @TheMarcusGarrett

• Website - www.themarcusgarrett.com

• Marcus’ book - D.E.B.T. Free or Die Trying

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot these days about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us and, of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying you are never happier than your most unhappy child. And I would expand that to your most unhappy person you care about. I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Marcus Garrett:
I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life. They sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A lot of us spent, well, more money than we expected in November and December. Oh, high inflation. Yeah. Things got a lot more expensive, and they still are. And so we set resolutions in January. But here we are, it's February. And I kind of feel like this is the month of the reality check. So we were so determined in January to reach our goals. We started out so strong, but then each day and each week passes and here we are, it is February. Marcus Garrett is an award-winning freelance money writer. He is the podcast host of the Marcus Garrett Show and the author of Debt Free or Die Trying. You have seen him all over the media, including CBS News and USA Today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I asked him to swing by and kind of help us out with the debt issues that we may be experiencing. Or if not you, maybe some friends that want to help out that may be in a little bit over their head. Marcus has an incredible backstory that he shares with me that I think you guys are going to really find compelling. And then we get into some very specific tips about how to get out of debt. Here is Marcus Garrett. Hey, Marcus Garrett. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Marcus Garrett:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I brought you on to talk about your strategy for debt payoff. This is something near and dear to my heart because it's something that we have a lot of money shame about. I know I've had moments in my life when I have had debt and certainly not talked about it. I'm fortunate to have come out of them at this point and be in a much healthier position. But it's something that we all have, or at least a lot of us have experienced and can relate to and a lot of us don't talk about, certainly at the time. Tell us briefly about your experience, because that's a lot of what's brought you to where you are these days.

Marcus Garrett:
I got $26,000 in debt in 72 hours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch.

Marcus Garrett:
It all started with a yo-yo. I was 18-years-old walking through the campus like many, millennial flashbacks. I should have hit hashtag trigger warning. And I went to the table where they had the credit cards and they had the swag to choose for. I chose a yo-yo. I signed up for $9,000 credit card at the time. I didn't know it was $9,000. It was a Discover card if I remember correctly. Then I got three more credit cards, graduated school with $9,000 in debt. And then I got a consolidation loan, which was supposed to consolidate in all one low monthly payment, as we all know. I took that consolidation loan, bought a car, bought some rims, I bought a $3,000 TV. I'm very specific about that because people can't wrap their head around the TV used to be $3,000. But that's just a reflection of how old I am.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can still get a TV for $3,000 or more, trust me.

Marcus Garrett:
But not a 42-inch TV.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, no.

Marcus Garrett:
I got a 70-inch TV this year for $300. So I ran out and buy a bunch of stuff that I don't need and didn't appreciate the value. And then I wrote a book about it, $30,000 in debt. It took me seven years to pay off that yo-yo.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to clarify. So you rang up $9,000 in debt, and then when you got the consolidation loan, you were supposed to use that money to pay off the debt, but you did not.

Marcus Garrett:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
You then use that too for more debt.

Marcus Garrett:
I bought more debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so that we followed more debt correctly.

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You got more debt. Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
I used debt to buy more debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was going on there? I mean, without getting too detailed, just because I have this book launching, Financial Grownups, coming out. What happened in sort of your childhood or early adulthood that you had no idea this was happening?

Marcus Garrett:
I'd say kind of reminds me of the mind of [inaudible 00:05:05] is just the mind of a 22-year-old. Now that I'm on the wrong side of 30, I can barely wrap my head around that I did that. It almost seems like a dream that I watched on Netflix or something like that. It didn't actually happen to me. But I was really just ignorant of how money worked. It was really that simple. I really thought it was free money. I got a credit card, I thought I was getting over all the banks. I'm like, "Can you believe how low this minimum payment is? These guys, they don't know what they're doing. They're just giving me money." And then when I got the consolidation loan, I truly believed that they would pay off the credit card for me and that I would just make this new monthly payment.

Marcus Garrett:
And they sent a 22-year-old, I had never made more than $9 an hour in my entire life, they sent me what might as well have been a blank check for $10,000. And it was like, "Hey, 22-year-old has not demonstrated any level of responsibility in your entire life up to and including the day that you got this check. Spend this responsibly." And I mean, I don't know how 22-year-olds are today. Now when I talk to kids, I feel they are more advanced that they have more information available to them, but they're still young-minded. I was just young-minded and I didn't have information available to me. But what I did have was a blank $10,000 check.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And were there any stakeholder, financial stakeholders, in your life that were influencing you? Who was influencing you? I mean, were you getting information from parents or other adults in your life, from the school, or were your influences just your peer group who maybe were getting the same thing?

Marcus Garrett:
I don't want to discount the role that my parents played because my parents are actually very good with money, but they've stumbled into it. They're just very cheap. And they've done really well for themselves. They're just your traditional savers, and they just save consistently. They're they're now both retired. My parents practiced FIRE and didn't even know what FIRE was. So they both retired early and they're currently retired now 20 years in. They were both retired in their fifties. But at the same time, which is weird, they were doing that as my parents, but not as my peers or my friends, which answers the other part of your question. We didn't really talk about money in the household. They helped me set up a savings account, which I'm very grateful and appreciative of. They showed me how to save and ultimately help buy my first car.

Marcus Garrett:
But we didn't really talk about the why. It wasn't as in-depth as it is today with the personal finance community and all the podcasts. So to pivot to the other side of your question, yes, it was thus other ignorant 22-year-olds just like myself. And what was fascinating is they were always buying stuff and I could never figure out how. I had three jobs and they had no jobs, yet they were always buying stuff. I learned later they were using their loans, their student loans and cash back. I didn't have any student loans. So I was like, "I have to keep up with the Jones's, or in this case, my juniors." I had to keep up with the juniors. And so I was buying it all with credit cards. And I learned too late in life that they were buying all that with debt, a different type of debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think peer pressure is a big thing when it comes to money, especially for young people. And were your parents aware that this credit card debt was building up? Were their conversations about it? Did you get any education from your school?

Marcus Garrett:
None from the school.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
I can say that for a fact. I don't think they knew how big the scope of it was. And I remember one time, I distinctly remember this conversation. By then in Colorado, at the time I had moved to Colorado because I had so much debt, or part of the reason I moved to Colorado was because I had so much debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why Colorado?

Marcus Garrett:
I got a job opportunity that increased my pay 40%. And so by this point in my life, I had to move for money. I had to chase money to pay off all this debt I accumulated. I was 27-years-old. So five years after that, that car and $26,000 experience. So now I'm chasing after more money, because like most people, I think trading time for money is how you solve all your money problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're paying for your past.

Marcus Garrett:
Right. So I went to Colorado. And just having a good conversation, my mom's super proud of me. And it always has been super supportive. She knows how much I make. I mean, I work in the public sector, it's not hard to find. And she was like, "Oh, you must be," frankly, whatever she said, but balling out of control, which would be my terms. That's not what came out of my mom's mouth. I was like, "No, I got $18,000 in credit card debt." And I remember her eyes. My mom's probably never had a $18,000 credit card debt in her entire life. But she was in shock by that. But even that wasn't that big of a deal to me because I knew my friends had $30,000 in debt. And 20 is like, everybody's doing it. It's just I really didn't realize how big of a number it was, because I didn't see it objectively. I just said, "Well, everybody has debt. That's the American way of life."

Bobbi Rebell:
And your mother, did she offer to step in? Did she talk to you? Did she offer solutions? What was her reaction?

Marcus Garrett:
She definitely didn't offer to step in. My parents, they're they're not the salvation type. They're not the helicopter type. They're the, we've done what we can for you and good luck with that type. So she's like, "Oh you got $18,000 of debt. So what you going to do about that?" I asked my parents for money once and it's only because my roommate was late with rent. And I still look upon that day with great lament and pain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they give it to you?

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
They did? Oh good. I could talk to you about this forever, but I want to give our listeners, you got four steps to becoming debt free. And obviously there's more information in your book. Let's go through. So debt free, and they go by D-E-B-T. So the first one is to find the problem.

Marcus Garrett:
Yes. So I tell people, and if they want this plan, they can get it at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. I now give it away for free, because I think it's that important. And the first step is, yes, to find the problem. For me, that's going to annualcreditreport.com and downloading, there you can get your credit report, not your credit score, related but different. And I remember when I had a conversation the second time to get a consolidation loan when I was finally making the proactive and responsible steps to get out of debt, they were asking me basics like what's your credit score? How much debt do you have outlaid?

Marcus Garrett:
I'd had no idea how much debt I even had available to me, assigned to me, my monthly payments. I was just, like most people, I was floating from paycheck to paycheck and making the minimum payment thinking I was doing well or getting by. And so I said I would never put myself in that position again. So step one, I tell people to find the problem. And I found out recently from a recent news interview I did, that's still true. I think it said at least one in three, but I think it was one in five people don't know their credit score or how much debt they have. You kind of just go into this wave of denial and start making the minimum payments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, definitely. So D could also be for denial because I've had moments where I just do not want to open certain envelopes that come in the mail. And now that we do digital, it's even worse because you'd have to proactively log on and see something you may not want to see. But you know what? Guys, I have found it is usually not as bad as you think. And once you look at it, you know what it is, only then can you get a plan. And that brings us to E, which is establish a plan.

Marcus Garrett:
For me I use, it's still available, it's actually the one that I used. It was bankrate.com/calculators with a S. If they have under 70 calculators, I'd be amazed. But it's every calculator that you can think of. Mortgage loan, any way that you can get yourself from debt, I guarantee you Bankrate as it covered. And I use their debt calculator. And I remember I used this for frame of reference. Yahoo, I'm not even sure Google was around. I used yahoo.com to find bankrate.com/calculator. And I printed it out, the PDF. And that was the debt plan that I ultimately put together. And of course, things have been updated since then. There's all kinds of tools.

Marcus Garrett:
But I just tell people the tool doesn't matter. The best system is a system that works. So establish your plan. How are you going to pay down this debt? I think a lot of people are just like, "I want to be debt free." That was probably their new year's resolution. "I want to be debt free." And those goals sound good, but how much does that cost? How many months, how much do you have to pay each month to truly be debt free in that timeframe that you set for yourself? That's the hard part that you're talking about. That's where you're doing the work. So establish a plan, a true plan with a system to become debt free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And I totally agree. People will get caught up in the avalanche or the snowball or whatever, all these different things. The truth is, whatever works for you. And I am also a big fan of bankrate.com. All right, then we've got B is for build a budget. Ooh. I hate budgets, Marcus.

Marcus Garrett:
Well, that's good because I think the chapter is you actually don't need a budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Marcus Garrett:
What I say is you need a system. So the first budget is really to say, "Once you've got that, you know how much debt you had, you define. You've established a plan." And now really what I'm saying is build a budget around that plan, because sometimes a plan might say it's $500 a month. If you don't have an extra or cannot find $500 a month, then you've set yourself up to fail. So you've set your plan incorrectly. So it forces you to go back and revisit the plan. And that's why I say budget is actually step number three because it supports what you define and if you have an actual plan that you can follow. It's like a diet. If your diet says cut 2,000 calories, you're probably not going to do that because I think you need 2,000 a day to survive. So it forces you to, is this reasonable? Can I survive on this plan?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Being realistic is so important. And then the last one is trust the process.

Marcus Garrett:
So that's a shout out to my millennials and zennials out there. I'm actually a geriatric millennial, I found out. Those of you 37 and up are with me. But really all that means is the system works. I know for a fact this system cannot fail. And you said the avalanche and the snowball, I've used both of those as well. And in combination I've used a number of different systems that adjusted to my lifestyle as necessary. But once you choose one and you trust the process, truly buy in. That's why the book is called Debt Free or Die Trying. Not debt free until inconvenient, not debt free until I need a new TV. It is Debt Free or Die Trying. There's very little outs other than being out of debt. So hashtag trust the process.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great tips. You have a bunch of other stuff going on this winter going into spring. Tell us what you're up to, Marcus.

Marcus Garrett:
Yeah, I've got a lot. I'm currently, and thank you to Apple Podcast, I'm featured in Apple Podcast for black history month in they're hashtag secure the bag category. For the people who are interested in this plan, they can get it downloaded for free at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. And then I have a newsletter of now about 5,000 individuals. I've scaled from 200 to 5,000 in the last 12 months. And every week I send out something informative about getting out of personal finance. And my season three episode focus is from employee to entrepreneur. I just want to see people be great and do well. And it's called The Marcus Garrett Show. But honestly, it's just opportunities for me to have cool conversations with people I would've loved to talk to anyway. And you'll be on an upcoming show actually in the spring in March promoting your book. And then in April, I always do a big push for financial literacy month.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well thank you so much. And let's just give your socials and where else people can find out more about you.

Marcus Garrett:
I'm universally branded under The Marcus Garrett. I'm most active now at youtube.com/themarcusgarrett. And then I've always been super active on Instagram. Again, it's themarcusgarrett as well. I have about 10,000 coming close to 11,000 followers there. So I just, once again, share memes. That's the lighter side of me. So the cat makes cameo appearances. The cat gets more views than any video I ever put up. She has a video right now that's like I would describe as viral. So I do reels and memes on instagram.com/themarcusgarrett.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Marcus Garrett:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grownups, I think the thing that I liked most about this interview with Marcus Garrett was hearing about how his parents dealt with his financial ups and downs. For example, when his mom heard that Marcus was $18,000 in debt when he was in his mid twenties. So not even that young, he should have known better by then. She put it to him to find a solution rather than giving him actual money to pay down his debt. That said, in a true clutch situation, when, and this was at a younger time when Marcus's roommate did not pay his rent, probably knowing how hard it was for Marcus to come to his parents for financial help, they were there for their son. It's a fine line. It's a lot of what I talk about in my book, Launching Financial Grownups, because yeah, it's a tricky situation and there's a lot of nuances. Being there for kids, grandkids, and just young adults that care about in your life. But not always with a check or a financial gift as a solution. Sometimes, but usually not. Sometimes just as a support and helping them work through it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are times when, if you can financially help in a specific situation, that is okay too. It's a lot about figuring out what to do when. So this is a perfect segue to ask everyone to pre-order Launching Financial Grownups. A lot of authors do big giveaways. But as you know, I put a lot of time, energy and yes, financial resources into providing this podcast for free. Along with my newsletter that you can sign up for free on my website, bobbirebell.com. I hope you will help me out by pre-ordering Launching Financial Grownups because the early sales, especially pre-orders, really help. And of course, Marcus is terrific. So everyone, please check out The Marcus Garrett Show wherever you enjoy podcasts. And big thanks to Marcus Garrett for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 one on Instagram and bobbirebell on Twitter, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

WFH is not going away. Learn how to love it more- or hate it less without spending any more money than you need with Jill Duffy, author of the Everything Guide to Remote Work

Money Tips

1. You don't need to spend a lot to have a good at-home work setup.

2. We have incredible opportunities to reduce the amount of time we spend in meetings.

3. If you work remotely for an organization, don't skimp on what you ask them to pay for! Learn about what items an employer should be paying for.

---

Follow Jill!

• Instagram - @jilleduffy

• Twitter - @jilleduffy

• Website - http://www.jilleduffy.com/

• Jill’s book - The Everything Guide to Remote Work

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm thinking a lot, these days, about financial anxiety and how much we all just want to feel secure about the future for us, and of course, for the people that we love. There's a saying, "You are never happier than your most unhappy child," and I would expand that to, "your most unhappy person you care about." I want everyone who hears this to be able to give the next generation the gift of financial security and the freedom that comes with it. That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. I'm excited to share it with all of you, and I hope it can help put all generations of your family on the path to reaching all of your financial goals and dreams. Order your copy of Launching Financial Grownups today, and thank you for your support.

Jill Duffy:
The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this,

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Welcome to our third week in our grown up career miniseries. This episode is all about specific and practical solutions, including what can we get companies to pay for? It turns out, it may be a lot more than just an ergonomic chair and stuff like that. If you have not already listened to the past couple of episodes, we spoke with Deborah Wheatman of Careers Done Right. She had solutions for how to present ourselves when we want to level up our careers, either where we are or where we want to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then last week, I was thrilled to have the brilliant Whitney Johnson back. We focused on how to get past career blahs and how compliments can help us figure out what we should be doing, what we're really good at, and what we can get paid for. And now to round out our grownup career miniseries this week, Jill Duffy, the author of The Everything Guide to Remote Work takes us through the most practical ways to set up our work from home or work from, well, wherever life is taking us, including what we can get for free, and who doesn't love free? Here is Jill Duffy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill Duffy, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think you get the award for one of, if not the most, relevant books this winter of 2022, The Everything Guide to Remote Work, the ultimate resource for remote employees, hybrid workers, and digital NOMADS, which I think covers almost all of us at this point. So, congrats on the book.

Jill Duffy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's start with the at home setups. They've kind of evolved over the last two years. What are people spending money on that's working out, and what are things that we're, or should be, moving away from?

Jill Duffy:
You can spend as much money as you want on a home office or a home work setup. What you actually need may not be something super expensive. So, you can spend a lot of money if that will make you happy and it will improve your work life, and you can go very, very lean if what you're concerned about is not creating a lot of waste and not spending too much money. So, the basic things you need will probably be some kind of a computer, maybe headphones to help your concentration or to have video call meetings be a little bit better, but then beyond that, it starts to get a little bit more choosy. So, you'll want to have a desk. You'll want to have a chair. Whether you use a chair that's already in your home, or you buy inexpensive office chair, may be up to you.

Jill Duffy:
However, if you work for an employer, you should really ask if they will pay for some of this equipment, especially a chair, because it's necessary, and it's usually a little bit more expensive than the other things you'll need. So, get a good chair that you're comfortable sitting in. I sit in a dining room chair. I had an office chair. I found it wasn't very comfortable. I like this better, and I invested about $30 or $40 in a back cushion. So, a back cushion is a very inexpensive item you can add that makes your setup a little bit more comfortable.

Jill Duffy:
For people who work remotely, but aren't always at home, a good way to use things around the house is to try working from a kitchen table or a dining room table, rather than a desk, if you find that your desk is too high. You don't need to go out and buy a whole new desk, but it turns out that kitchen tables are usually two or three inches lower than the standard desk. So again, rather than buying a new desk or maybe getting a keyboard tray, that would be another solution. Just try using a different table. See if that changes the height of things a little bit for you.

Jill Duffy:
Then if you're really lean and you don't want to invest in a back cushion, you can also use a small towel rolled up in a roll for lumbar support or even just a small pillow in the same kind of way, and then other things, something like a lamp, would be really necessary for people who do paper-based work. If you are an artist, you might need some extra peripherals. I think having external keyboard and a mouse are really, really important. So if you're working from a laptop, you may not have those things already. That's a good one to spend maybe about a hundred dollars on, just to make your wrist and your hands a little bit more comfortable, but if you don't have them and you find working on a laptop is okay, that's perfectly ergonomically correct, because laptops are now thin enough that it's not going to create a huge stress on your wrist joints if you just work on a laptop.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because we moved home in a frenzy in March of 2020, and we kind of put together our setups thinking they were temporary. Now that many people are thinking that these remote setups, we say work from home, but home has become very loosely defined these days. How has it evolved? Are there things that people should be doing? I mean, you really just talked about very basic things. Okay. People, if they're realizing this is a more permanent situation, how do you up it beyond that? Because I also feel like we could be suckers. I mean, there's a whole industry now that is trying to tell us that we need, like you just talked about, rolling up a towel, but there's many people that will sell you at all price points, all kinds of back support. How much is necessary? I mean, obviously as you said, we can spend infinite money, but should we be rolling our eyes at a lot of this stuff?

Jill Duffy:
Sometimes, I think so. I mean, you could buy a laptop riser or you could stick your laptop on three or four books when you need it to be a little bit higher, which is something people often do for remote work calls. You want your camera to be a little higher. You could buy the expensive chair, or you could go with the back cushion or the towel. There's always a way to trade it off, but I think ultimately, making sure that you're happy and comfortable is really important. So if you're going to invest a little bit of money, think about what items you would want that will actually improve your work from home life or your remote work life and make you happy.

Jill Duffy:
Another place people often spend money is on shared workspaces, so something like a WeWork subscription or even a rental office that you might share with other people or that you might use once a week, and you have another friend use it a couple of other days a week. That will allow you to get out of the house. So for people who find themselves very antsy being at home, being in the same situation all the time, that's a good way to change it up. Before the COVID pandemic, I had a great routine of working two days every week from a coffee shop, and that was sort of my second location. It was a way for me to get away from the same stimuli I was always surrounded by in my home environment, and then COVID really changed that. I didn't go as much.

Jill Duffy:
I think as we're moving into a space where our risks are coming down, people are vaccinated, things have opened up, finding yourself a second place to be is really, really helpful, especially on those days when you just start to feel like you're stagnating. So again, if you have a little bit of money or maybe your employer is supporting you financially, look into a coworking space, look in to an office you might rent, and if you don't, maybe a coffee shop is a good place. Maybe you have a friend or a relative nearby who isn't at home, and you can use their home to work every now and again when you need a little bit of peace and quiet.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a change of scenery is so important. You also talk, in the book, about the fact that meetings have a cost. Part of that is financial, but there's other costs, as well. Can you talk about, both, the financial cost of meetings and then the other things that we don't always fully appreciate?

Jill Duffy:
People get so burned out by meetings, and a lot of studies are showing that they feel more burned out by meetings in the remote work environment, where meetings are often virtual, and the dynamic changes a little bit. The way that people interact changes a little bit. So, people feel like they're always on, and so there's a cost with your energy. The more that you're asked to show up to meetings and be on, have your camera on, have maybe your home environment shown, there's a cost to you in terms of your energy levels, what work you can do after the meeting ends, that time spent ramping up to the meeting, the time spent with winding down from the meeting.

Jill Duffy:
So, I like to think, instead, about the way that we want to take value from a meeting. So rather than say, we used to have meetings in the workspace, let's transfer that online, what we should really say is, "What value do we get from meetings? And is there a better way to do this in a remote work environment" What I've seen in a lot of remote first companies is they start to embrace tools that allow them to replicate parts of the meeting or value that they get from the meeting without actually being on a camera call.

Jill Duffy:
A good example is a shared whiteboard. Let's say you have a weekly or a monthly meeting where people are brainstorming ideas. Rather than wait for the meeting time, where everybody must show up and be there and be on and have energy, give them the shared whiteboard where people can post their ideas at any time that it strikes them, and that way, you can still have a meeting where you discuss it, and you come up with some more ideas, but that allows people to have the time and the space and the energy to think about their ideas and add them when it's right for them, rather than pigeonhole them into this meeting format.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm curious about your take on something that's becoming a little bit controversial with all this online meeting burnout. I have a friend that works for a large corporation, and she has a team that is, at this point, pretty much... It's all virtual, but it's people that were even hired virtually at this point, that they're not people that she knew in the before times, and the frustration is that many of them don't want to turn their cameras on during meetings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of it could be the things that you're talking about, that it says take so much energy, but they never turn on their cameras, and she's asking them to, and as a manager, she feels she can't really connect with them. We are recording this. We're only recording the audio, but you and I are looking at each other on camera. I feel it helps us connect and have a better interview, even though we're not in the same place. What's the flip side of that? How do you get people to, when you do meet, turn the cameras on, and is that something that managers are going to start pushing for more, as we keep this remote world and it evolves?

Jill Duffy:
I think about this in two ways. One is the very real situation that you're talking about, that people expect you to have your camera on because they want to connect. The other thing to think about here is that in COVID times, a lot of people were told to work remotely from home without being asked, so it wasn't voluntary. We didn't opt into it. We were told that we had to do it. What I've heard a lot of, especially from women of color, is that they feel it's a deep invasion of privacy to be told that your camera must be on. They're in their home environment. You might not dress up as much as you would if you were presenting yourself in a professional environment. You might have kids or elderly people or people with special needs in your home. You might not want to show what's in your home. You might not just want to do it, because that's really asking a lot of people, and I think we need to be sensitive to that.

Jill Duffy:
I think, hands down, the rule should be, if at any point in time, you need to have your camera off, leave your camera off. The reality is, in the business world, we have expectations that aren't always great placed upon us, and sometimes we do need to turn our cameras on and show up. I would say for people who really don't like to be on camera, try to pick one or two times in regular meetings that you have, where you're willing to have your camera on. You can blur your environment. You can use a background image to create a little bit more privacy. You can swivel your computer setup so that your back is against a plain wall. Don't show the kid mess. Don't show your kitchen. Don't show the art on your wall. You don't have to show those things, but I think we need to give everybody a pass, especially in this time where we've been told to work from home, and we didn't opt into it, that people are allowed to have their privacy when they need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good perspective to really process. One last question, before I let you go, Jill. One thing that you talk about in the book is that there are things that we may not know we can ask for our companies to pay for, but they can, and it's they can, and they should. We think of things like, you talked about chairs and this and that. Yeah. We can make the case, they should buy us an ergonomic chair. It may work. It may not. What can we get at companies to pay for these days?

Jill Duffy:
There are a lot of other things. If you think about the amount of time you may have put into learning and networking in the past, such as going on a business trip or a business conference, those are the kinds of things you can ask for in the remote world, too. Maybe it's something like an online business conference or an online learning program, instead, which there are many of, and they're very inexpensive. They're extremely accessible, but those are the kinds of things that you can just say, "Hey, I want to learn more about such and such topic," or, "I think it would advance my career if I learned about this. Would you be willing to pay for it?"

Jill Duffy:
I think it's always a good idea to come forward with a complete plan. So rather than say, "Hey, do we have any money for learning?" You say, "I want to take this particular course. Here's the link to it. Here's a little bit about the instructor and what it would cost when I plan to do it," something like that. Give your manager a reason to say, "Yes," easily. The more that you do the work in advance for them, the easier it is for them to say, "Yes."

Jill Duffy:
I think another compelling point to this is that it doesn't always have to relate directly to your job. If we look at productivity research, we find that people who cultivate interest and expertise in areas outside of their job end up being more productive at work, and there's a lot of theory as to why people sometimes think, "Oh, if you can think outside of the box, because you have different experiences from another world, that's great," but anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to doing artwork, sports, even practicing comedy routines, we found that it does make people more productive. So if you can convince your employer to pay for something that enriches your learning, that maybe isn't directly tied to your work, you could be able to convince them to pay for that, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So, everyone who dreams of being a standup comic, you now know you can try to make your case to your boss. Jill, this was great. Tell us, where can we find out more about you and The Everything Guide to Remote Work?

Jill Duffy:
The Everything Guide to Remote Work is on sale now, anywhere that you buy books. Online, I'm on Twitter @JillEDuffy, J-I-L-L-E-D-U-F-F-Y, and I'm also a contributing writer and editor at pcmag.com, where I write a lot about productivity and software and organizing your digital life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jill Duffy:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many great takeaways. I love the idea of using just a simple dining chair with a back cushion or even a towel rolled up for lumbar support. Who needs all those fancy things? And of course, just the idea of asking for things from your employers, the worst they can say is, "No." Even then, as things go on, policies may adjust. So, make sure to check in at your job's HR website periodically to see if new benefits pop up. Things are always changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I do want to take a minute before we wrap up to say thank you to so many of you. A lot of you have been pre-ordering my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and it is truly appreciated. It is being noticed. If you do, I would love to thank you. So, please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. That's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-1, the number one. Pre-ordering tells online retailers that Launching Financial Grownups is a book that people are interested in, and that will help get it a boost from them. By the way, if it is not in your budget, please reach out to your local library and ask if they will buy a few copies so you can borrow it for free. A big thanks to The Everything Guide to Remote Works, Jill Duffy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on Twitter, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownup gear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Feeling ambivalent about your career these days? With the pandemic dragging on, you are not alone. Whitney Johnson is back with some tips to get unstuck and recharge

Tips for Managing the Career Blahs

• Learn how common the Career Blahs

• Find out what the S-curve is and where you are on the curve.

• Why you shouldn’t just say “I quit”

• Learn why it’s less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity

---

Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - WhitneyJohnson.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups, before we start the podcast I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective. And remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. Tshirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup. Or, at least a grownup in progress. Or, at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear, from onesies to bibs, that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. Very excited to share the second in our Grownup Career miniseries that started last week, with Deborah Wheaton of Careers Done Right. This week, I'm so excited to share my interview with bestselling author and host of the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, Whitney Johnson. I invited Whitney back to the podcast because she has a new book out. It's her fourth one, guys. That's a lot. It's called Smart Growth. Whitney is a force in the career and workplace advisor space. She has 1.8 million followers on LinkedIn. 1.8 million. Maybe by the time this comes out, it's going to be two million. Oh my gosh. She also was selected as a Top Voice in 2020 at LinkedIn and her course on Fundamentals of Entrepreneurship has been viewed more than one million times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talked about something that is front-and-center for a lot of us, and good for you if it's not, but I don't know. Anyway, good for you. But for me, it is the career blahs, especially as I've said, as we enter year three of this pandemic. Oh, gosh. Hang in there, guys. Here is Whitney Johnson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Whitney Johnson, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to back to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Oh, Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I asked you back because you have your number four book, Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company. You're going to be talking to us about the work blahs, so we're going to get to that in a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:
But before we do that, tell me about this book. And gosh, writing a book in a pandemic, my goodness.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, I think it's the best time to write a book because you have focused time and you're not traveling. But, here is what it's about. I've written three books prior to that, and the last two, one was called Disrupt Yourself, the second one was called Build an A Team. And in those books, I had something called the S Curve of Learning, kind of in the background. It was the supporting actor. And people kept looking at it, and calling it out and saying, "Let's talk about it."

Whitney Johnson:
And basically, what it does is it gives us this simple visual model of what growth looks like, of what it feels like. It was always in the background and I said, "We need to write a book so that people can have this front-and-center. And understand, okay now I have this way to think about the emotional arc of growth." So that's what this book is about, is giving people a map to grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we all want to grow, but the truth is, as I kind of said, you could hear it in my voice at the beginning of this interview, it's really hard. We're going on year three here. A lot of us have the blahs when it comes to work. And that is something that you do address in the book Smart Growth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us, first of all, how common is it? We think, whatever level we're at, that it's just us. Even the biggest bosses get this. You know some VIPs and they definitely get the workplace blahs.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. The reason you get the blahs is ... I want you to picture an S in your mind and you can draw it with your hand, left to right, a line where you get the launch point. And that's where you start something brand new, and you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out. And it's overwhelming, and exhilarating and all those important things. And growth initial feels very slow, even though it's fast. But then, you put in the effort and you accelerate into what I call the sweet spot. This is the place where it's exciting, and exhilarating and it's hard but not too hard, easy but not too easy. And this is the place where growth not only is fast, it feels fast. But then, and now we're coming to the blahs, you get into mastery.

Whitney Johnson:
And mastery is this place where you're, "I'm at the top of the mountain! I am the king or queen of the mountain." But the problem is, is that because you have figured it all out, you're not longer learning, you're no longer enjoying the feel good effects of learning. You can get bored. So if you don't do something new, you're going to either potentially self sabotage, you're going to get complacent or have to go somewhere else. So, enter the blahs, this feeling of, "I'm really good at this but I feel like I can no longer do it."

Bobbi Rebell:
So relevant these days and something I think so many of us feel so often. So how do we know where we are on the S curve? Because I think you can get the blahs at many different stages. And then, how do we get out of the blahs? Especially when it feels like we're just home, alone. And there's a very thin line between oh, we have our privacy, but then it's a lot of isolation. You put on a big face when you have that Zoom meeting, maybe even turn your camera off these days, more and more. And then, you get off that and you're just still home. Blah, blah, blah.

Whitney Johnson:
It's an interesting predicament. What I would say is that, when you're on an S curve of learning and you're at the launch point, you don't always know is this the fact that it's the wrong S curve and therefore the blahs, or if it's the right S curve but you just don't have momentum yet and you need to persist. And so, one of the things you want to do when you're at that launch point is ask yourself questions like is this something that is in sync with my identity, in sync with my values, in sync with my why? And maybe, I'm just burned out. Because I think the blahs, right now, can also be, "I'm just burned out and I need a rest, I need a break."

Whitney Johnson:
But, if all those questions are, "Yes, I actually really like doing this but I just need a break," then you want to stay on this curve and find a way to rest and reflect. There's a wonderful quote by Tiffany Shlain who wrote a book called 24/6. And she says, "What if we thought of rest as technology? Because the promise of technology is that it makes our life more efficient and more productive. And if we're willing to rest, that will also make our life more efficient and more productive."

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any practical tips to decide where do you even begin?

Whitney Johnson:
Start assessing, "What do I like about what I'm doing currently?" There's going to be lots of things that you do actually like. And, "What don't I like?" Start having lots and lots of conversations with people about, "What do I do well? What are my superpowers?" What do people compliment you on? Because in those compliments, there are going to be lots and lots of clues to what you do well and what you might want to do next.

Whitney Johnson:
Often times, when we're in that blah place, we start to go into fantasy land of, "Oh, I think I want to do a different job in a different industry in a different country," which isn't really very practical most of the time. So you want to initially say, "Well, okay. If I've been a CFO for a really long time and I'm tired of being a CFO, and I want to do something different, how about if I go be a CFO in a different town? Or, maybe I work as a CFO part time, so that I can still put food on the table but I can think about what else I might want to do." Maybe working with startups. And then, over time that could move to a new S curve where you become the CFO, or even the CEO of a startup, because you've given yourself an opportunity to jump to a new curve but not just leap off without a parachute.

Bobbi Rebell:
That goes to a theme that you talk about in the book, which is the concept of familiar yet novel. And I think that's really relevant to so many people these days, that have this frustration and this blah about their careers, where they're first instinct might just be to join the Great Resignation and just say, "I quit." But there's some red flags with that. You're pointing out that maybe too big a leap doesn't make sense.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. There's two thoughts on that.

Whitney Johnson:
First of all, yes I do talk about this idea of familiar versus novel. There was some terrific research out of Northwestern. They looked at 10 million research papers written over the course of 10 years and they found that the ones that were most cited were the ones that have 85 to 95 percent of the sources were familiar, in the lane, usual suspect, but five to 15 percent were novel, outside of the scope of what people would expect. And so, if you use that as an analog or as a benchmark, when you're thinking about doing something new, you want it to be 85 to 95 percent familiar, then five to 15 percent novel. So it's familiar enough that you can get a handle on it, but it's novel enough that it surprises and delights you, and it gets your dopamine going. That's a good place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you talk about the fact that it is less difficult to take on something new if it corresponds to your identity. We have to pay attention. As much as we may want to change, we have to be realistic about the fact ... and also maybe make it our superpower, I don't know if that's the right term. That we do have an identity that people are used to seeing and it has to still make sense. You can reinvent yourself and disrupt yourself, as you often talk about, but it also has to be in a way that people will still recognize you.

Whitney Johnson:
Right. Well, and it depends. Because sometimes, for example, there might be an identity shift that you want to make, that is very important to you to make. So you want to change how people perceive you as being kind versus mean, so in that case it's an identity you aspire to.

Whitney Johnson:
But in this case, we would talk about it as being on brand. Is this something that people say, "Oh yeah, Bobbi is going to do something in the financial arena." You've got a new book coming up. What's it called? Financial ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Launching Financial Grownups.

Whitney Johnson:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Whitney Johnson:
That's in your lane, that identity works. But if you said, "Hey everybody, I'm going to write a book about dressage." Equestrian. People would be like, "Whoa, okay."

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Whitney Johnson:
Not sure what to do with that. You would have to do a lot of work to get people to say, "I'm still going to follow her there."

Whitney Johnson:
What's happening is that when you want to jump to a new S curve, you are asking everyone else around you, in this case a potential employer, to jump to a new S curve as well. There's risk involved for them to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to get to one more thing before I let you go. There's a story that just was ... I don't know if the word magical is the right word because it's a dirty story. It's a dirty story because it has to do with the Dirty Jobs guy, Mike Rowe. I just want you to share at least part of it, I know we don't have time to do all of it. But, I want you to share it because it just shows that sometimes, it's not about ... You have to find the right sort of job and the right identity for yourself, but you also have to find the right place for it, where you can monetize it and make it your career. So tell us quickly about the Mike Rowe story and how he had all these different jobs, he was bumbling around. On the surface, I would say he was pretty successful, he was on TV and all that stuff.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But ...

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Mike Rowe, we all know him from Dirty Jobs. He was jumping onto a lot of S curves. I mean, you could argue that he was a master explorer. He had job after job. And he was an opera singer, and he was on Home Shopping Network, lots of jobs. Well, he's now on the Evening Show in San Francisco. He gets a call. He's gone to yet another winery and he gets a call from his mother.

Bobbi Rebell:
Winery representing another boring location to him.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
For him, that was boring.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would like it. But for him, this was not desirable. Not a desirable reporting assignment.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Go on, Whitney.

Whitney Johnson:
Nor to his mother. So his mother calls him up and says, "Hey, Mike." I think she said Michael. "When are you going to do a job that your grandfather can be proud of? He's over 90, he's about to die. When are you going to do that?"

Whitney Johnson:
This was the call to adventure, the jump to a new S curve. He says, "You know what, I'm going to go into a sewer and I'm going to film a sewer inspector." He goes into this sewer, and he has raw sewage all over him and all these roaches. And it's on Evening Magazine in San Francisco. And he says he loved it, but the producers called him in and they fired him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He found his calling but they didn't like his calling.

Whitney Johnson:
They did not. They kicked him off the curve, but they gave him the footage. It was originally called Somebody's Got to Do It, but that became the pilot for Dirty Jobs, which arguably changed the face of reality television.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. My husband loves that. Yeah. I can't watch it, but good for them. They should enjoy it. The point being ... Well, you tell me. What is the takeaway from this? I love that story.

Whitney Johnson:
The point is is that, first of all, I think he was 42. He was over 40 when this happened. So I think that's an important point, which is so often we think, "Oh, I'm in my 20s, my life is over. I'm 15, my life is over. I'm 25, my life is over." 35, your life is over. And the reality is your life is never over until it's over, so I think that's the first thing.

Whitney Johnson:
The second thing is pay attention to your mother. Just joking, but not really. The third thing is that you're going to be on a lot of S curves and many of those S curves won't be the right S curve. But if you're willing to continue to explore, you will eventually find the S curve that is the right S curve for you. What I have found in my own life, and I think most of your listeners will find, is most of us don't really find our calling until we're in our 30s or 40s.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So much changes, it's so true. So true. Wonderful advice. Thank you for coming back. Where can people find out more about you and Smart Growth?

Whitney Johnson:
Well, you can go to smartgrowthbook.com to find out more about the book. I have a podcast as well, so you can go to Disrupt Yourself, the podcast. As you just heard, we had Mike Rowe on and he told the story much better than I did just now. So those are probably the best two places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
This podcast is way too short in the case of Whitney's book, so definitely pick up a copy of Smart Growth. There were so many incredible stories there. Lots of unexpected anecdotes and stories, like that Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs one, that really makes you see things in a different perspective. And helps you understand that people who you think are totally set in their careers, and they've always been on the right path, maybe not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, I also fully appreciated Whitney's mentioning of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. Thank you for all of your support. I know quite a few of you have already put in preorders. DM me and let me know, so that I can thank you. It really does help with how book sellers will present suggestions to other potential listeners, to see activity before the official release date. Which, by the way, is March 22nd. So placing that preorder is very appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some of you have asked me where to order, among the different retailers. Where's the best place to order Launching Financial Grownups? Well, my answer is frankly, wherever it's most convenient for you. You can find links to buy Launching Financial Grownups on my website, bobbirebell.com, where there are also, by the way, full show notes with relevant links, as well as free transcripts of every episode of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also have one more thank you to those of you who also support this free podcast and my free newsletter, through buying our merch at grownupgear.com. I design every product personally with my incredible team member, Ashley. And yes, we do go with the highest quality materials that we can get. And that does cut our profit margins a bit, and it makes it sometimes a little bit more expensive, but I think it's pretty affordable. All of you have always given us major compliments on what you've gotten from Grownup Gear and I really appreciate that. Especially if you're buying gifts, and gifts can be for yourself, I think it's really important that it be high quality so we're going to stick with that. But, if you do want a discount on your first order, you can use the code Grownup to get 15% off. Thanks again for your support and thanks again to Smart Growth author, Whitney Johnson, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Careers Done Write’s Debra Wheatman shares her best tips for Grownups to level up their careers in the new year. 

Career Tips for 2022

• Write down a list of these things so that you can visualize them.

• Think about what you would like to achieve in the coming year.

• Create a plan for getting there. Perhaps you’re looking to be promoted, switch industries, or change careers altogether.

• Do you feel like you’re too busy to focus on managing your career and your brand?

• Another thing that will help you in the coming year is single-tasking.

• How are you at building relationships?

• Challenge the status quo.

---

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• Twitter - @debrawheatman

• LinkedIn - @debrawheatman

• YouTube - @careersdonewrite

• Website - CareersDoneWrite.com

Follow Bobbi!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting; t-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Debra Wheatman:
If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as you may have guessed from the opening sound bite, we're going to talk about careers. I have been having a bit of the career blahs lately. I sense a lot of people do as we are entering year three of the pandemic, which was supposed to be staying home 15 days to stop the spread. Yeah. Well it is what it is. So here we go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I decided we should do a little miniseries of career episodes for financial grownups starting with this week's guest, who's amazing. Her name is Debra Wheatman. She runs a company called Careers done Write, and Write is spelled W-R-I-T-E. Her genius is in the fact that Debra helps people not just figure out what they're good at and what they should be getting paid for, she also helps kind of package it all up so that your best attributes are front and center and help you land that dream job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Highlights of our interview included talking about the mistakes that we make when we're choosing a career. It was interesting because she has a very different perspective from what I think a lot of parents tell their young adult children. She also has a lot to say about the urge to multitask and some their very interesting suggestions there that you are going to want to hear. She also shares her take on the whole work from home thing, how it's evolving, what we should sort of make ourselves do in person maybe, but also some things that may be better off, I don't know, remotely. It's all okay. You'll love to hear what Debra has to say, so here is the interview with Debra Wheatman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Debra Wheatman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a human capital management strategist. Your company, by the way, is called Careers Done Write. What does that mean?

Debra Wheatman:
Well, we're a writing company and we're a branding company. We work with our clients to help them define, manage, maintain, and grow their brands so they can be successful in their careers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so much more relevant than ever with all the changes going on in the workplace. We don't know what is going on for 2022 in terms of how things will evolve with work from home, with working in the gig economy, how companies are evolving. So this is something that everyone needs to pay attention to, especially our grownups. Let's get into your tips for 2022.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing is just to write things down so you can visualize them. That's something we hear a lot, but you have a different spin on it.

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah. If you write things down, you're obviously going to be more inclined to not only remember them because there's a lot going on upstairs, we don't retain information just by saying, "Well, I'm going to do this. I mean, how many times have you said, "I'm going to do this," and then you forget about it. People do that all the time. If you write things down, you're not only more than likely to then commit to getting them done, crossing them off your list, but also that sense of accomplishment that you get when you write them down, when you complete them, and it allows you to move ahead with purpose. I like to say that because that's an important part of job search, it's an important part of your professional, your personal life, and gives you a feeling of accomplishment when you write things down and then you check them off as you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say that you have to think about what you want to achieve in the coming year, but also very specifically create a plan for being there and be specific. Are you looking to be promoted? Are you looking to switch industries? Are you looking to just change careers altogether? And this is an opportune time because so many different industries are open-minded about maybe mentoring somebody and bringing someone into the fold that they might not have looked at before, but now they need people. So this is kind of a good time, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yeah, this is definitely a job seekers market. If you are in the middle of the opportunity to do something different, something that maybe has driven you in the past or something that you want to get involved in, now might be a good time to do that because there's been a lot of upheaval. And as a result, because it is a job seekers market, you have more of an opportunity to spread your wings, explore new things and do something perhaps that maybe inspires you in a new and different way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, a lot of people listening to this might say, but, but, but, somehow I'm just so busy. When the pandemic started, we were home and we had so much time. We were baking bread. I did that. We were doing all kinds of home projects. We were having little wine, coffee hours, wine happy hours, whatever you might call it, because we suddenly felt like we had so much time, and now I don't know where the time is going. I mean, we're all so busy. So what do you say to people that just say, I feel like I'm so busy, I don't have time to manage my career or my brand?

Debra Wheatman:
I say to that, that you don't not have time to do it. That is a thing that should be a priority for you because your career, your brand, while I like to think that people are altruistic, there's no altruism when it comes to your ability and the need to make money. You have to support yourself. Maybe you have a family, you're beholden to other people. Whatever it is at the end of the day, the ability to make money and have a life that you want to lead, and take a vacation even, is predicated on your ability to make money. You also, at some point in your life, you're going to retire. You're not going to be working well into your 90s. What does that look like for you? If you don't take charge of your career now and you don't prioritize the things that are important about your career and your ability to be financially independent, then you will likely suffer some of the consequences of those decisions later on in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting that you say that because we also do have this movement, especially stereotyping a little bit, but maybe not too much, especially among young people that really want to follow their passions and do good, and they get told, well, sometimes that's not going to pay as much. It's a delicate balance because people feel like it's the right thing to do to take these sometimes jobs that don't pay as much in money, but pay a lot in feel good, but they're doing themselves a disservice sometimes when they don't prioritize money.

Debra Wheatman:
That is true. I would say there's more than one way to make yourself feel good and get that gratification that you're looking for. Maybe you don't necessarily do it in your "day job". Maybe you volunteer for an organization that is close to your heart, where you have a really strong connection. Instead of looking at it like I have to do work in this particular area, there are other ways that you can actually give back and get that same thing while still making money that supports you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another misconception is that people feel like if they can multitask, they'll get more done. You are against multitasking for sure.

Debra Wheatman:
Multitasking is not always a great thing. I do like to call it single-tasking instead. You should do one thing, try to complete that and do it properly. If you multitask, you're not going to do any of the things that you have on your list in a way that is either completed or satisfactory to you. If you focus on the one thing and get that thing done, it will be done properly. It will be done on time. It will be done according to the specifications that you hold yourself accountable to, and then you can move on to the next task. And that goes back to my earlier point, what you were asking me about prioritizing and making lists. This is why writing things down is important because then you could check it off, and the single task that you completed, victory is yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
The multitasking, you get sucked into it when you work from home. I mean, I definitely have gotten to the like, oh, I should be doing this, but I'm also doing the laundry and I'm also making lunch for my child, and I'm also doing all this because I have to get it all done. It's really dangerous. We really need to get that under control because we don't know if and when we're going back to the office full time, and we have to find ways to kind of settle in and create new ways to work at home, right?

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, absolutely. Of course feeding your child and doing the laundry and cooking dinner so that everybody has something to eat, all of those things are very important, but if you don't finish the one thing that you had to do that you said I'm going to finish this and then I can move on to this next task, that's an interrupt-driven work style. And I know, because I'm sometimes guilty of that. You'll never get any of them done. And you'll find that instead of getting this thing done and then being able to go and make dinner, if you will, neither of those things will be complete. And the thing that you had to get done that was sort of for traditional work, you're going to be doing that at 10 o'clock at night. How are you going to feel about that? Versus getting it done and finishing it and then saying, okay, once I'm finished with this, I'm now going to go do this other thing that I need to accomplish over here.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really hard, but we do have to learn to set those boundaries because it felt temporary at first, but now a lot of us if we're not going to work from home all the time, it's still going to be a part of our life. One of the hard things also about working from home or even in a hybrid environment is building relationships. Can you talk a little bit about your advice for that and how it pertains to sort of up-leveling your career in 2022?

Debra Wheatman:
Sure. Building relationships is difficult in an online world because while you can see people, the connection that you get from being in person is just not the same thing. The other thing is that you're scheduling these meetings, you're scheduling a Zoom call. It seems sort of disingenuous in some way. I'm going to speak to you today. I'm going to see you on Zoom at 4:00 PM. Versus saying, you know what, meet me at the restaurant. We're going to have some coffee, some wine and some dinner and just get together in person. People like to be around other people. This situation in particular has proven challenging for a number of people because of that.

Debra Wheatman:
Now given the situation that we're in, this is a good way to still connect with people and build those bridges as long as you use the time wisely, as long as it's meaningful for you, with the understanding that when it is safe to go back and meet in person, and when it's feasible to do that, we're going to resume those activities because again, people do like to be around other people. And proximity to other people, not just through a screen, it's important. It's good for our mental wellbeing. It's good for our physical wellbeing. To be able to give someone a hug is an important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
The last point I want to bring up, I can't believe this, we're entering year three. Debra, I remember when they said 15 days to stop the spread. Now we're entering the third year of 2022. We have a new status quo. You say challenge the status quo.

Debra Wheatman:
Yes, challenge the status quo. You don't have to continue to do the same things the way you've done them in the past. The pandemic has taught us if nothing else, that life is fleeting. It has taught us that we can work from home. We can do these things successfully. I know a number of people, a number of my clients who are far more efficient, far more effective working from home than they ever were in the office. And their bosses have said, you know what, stay at home. You're doing great. We love having you there. You're so efficient. Continue to do what you're doing. This is working out wonderfully.

Debra Wheatman:
That doesn't mean that you don't want to show up in the office because you want to show up at some point, out of sight, out of mind, and you want to have a little bit of a balance, but if you're effective working from home and that works for you, then you should pursue that path. And the state of the market the way it is today, the jobs they are showing us online, hybrid, fully remote, in-office, so we're having the opportunity to see what that looks like.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and be in touch?

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you. Yes, if people want to learn more, they can find me debra@careersdonewrite.com. That is my email. You can also go to my website, careersdonewrite. And that's like writing; W-R-I-T-E.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Debra Wheatman:
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. One of my favorite things about getting to know Debra in that interview is that while she had a definite point of view about things like not taking a low paying job to quote, follow your passion and instead, maybe taking a higher paying job and using that to support your passion or support a cause that you really care about. She's totally nonjudgmental, and it's tough to walk that line. So I think it was pretty cool the way that she approached it. By the way, she is working on a book called Help! To Hired, which will help all of us find meaningful work, but in a way that also helps get you to your financial goals. So keep an eye out for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Speaking of books, my book, Launching Financial Grownups, is on presale. You can buy it in all the usual places. If you go to my website, which is bobbirebell.com, you can learn more about it. It is a huge help if you order it in advance because it helps with algorithms, and it lets the places that sell books know that people are interested, and then those places in turn will make the book more discoverable.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm not doing a bunch of elaborate pre-order giveaways. That would take a lot of time and money and effort and all that kind of stuff, but I'm putting my effort into things like keeping this podcast super high quality and free for all of you, but it is something that takes time and money. I also put a lot of money and time into my newsletter, also free to you. So your support with the book pre-orders is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next two weeks of this career video series are going to be incredible. I have Whitney Johnson. She is huge coming up next. Her new book is called Smart Growth. We're going to be talking with her more directly about those career blogs that I mentioned at the top of this show and how to get motivated again. And then I'm going to be speaking with Jill Duffy. She wrote The Everything Guide to Remote Work. So please make sure you are a subscriber or are following the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. And please tell your friends to do so as well. I really appreciate your support of the podcast as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, big thanks to Debra Wheatman. Check out her blog at Careers Done Write. She also has a great newsletter, so I encourage you to get on her list as well. And truly grateful for her advice to help us all beat financial grownups. Thanks guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and @bobbierebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for grown up friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Inflation is surging and we are all feeling the pinch from the grocery store to the gas pump and more. Jessi Fearon, author of Getting Good with Money shares her best tips to manage and protect money when prices are on the rise. 

Money Tips

• When it comes to groceries, think about the things that you really need and find find foods, such as cabbage, that can be filler foods.

• This food should be considered “the sidekick instead of the hero" at each meal."

• What you can do with produce to help you save money and cut down on waste.

• Why a Costco membership isn’t for every family.

• Find apps that can help you save money or give you rewards that you can use later.
  

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Follow Jessi!

• Listen to Jessi’s First Episode here

• Instagram - @jessifearon

• Facebook - @JessiFearon

• Twitter - @jessifearon

• Pinterest - @JessiFearon

• YouTube

• Website - https://jessifearon.com/

• Jessi’s book - Getting Good With Money

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot so it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. T-shirt, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup, or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion. Even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Jessi Fearon:
I'm a huge fan of, I call them fillers. A lot of the foods I grew up eating had a lot of cabbage in them, and cabbage is a fantastic filler because you can put it in tacos, you can put it in pasta or rice dishes or anything and just add it to any dish that you come up with, and it's just a great way of being able to stretch a meal without having to buy a whole bunch of meat and sink your budget that way. You can do it with carrots or other vegetables so just keep on paying attention to the way that you use protein. Make meat the sidekick instead of the hero.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this. Hey, grownups. So if you have bought pretty much anything recently you have probably gotten sticker shock because, yes, prices are soaring, and this past week, we got official confirmation. Inflation at the consumer level is up 7% from a year ago. The most since 1982. Not fun. As if we weren't already dealing with supply chain shortages, it's really hard to bargain hunt when the store shelves are half empty and you can't exactly wait for a sale if you need something because, well, first of all, it's probably not going on sale anyway, and if it did, well, there probably wouldn't be what you need. It's a mess. Anyway, I asked my friend, Jessi Fearon, to come on with some tips for us to battle inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her background is in accounting, but she is also a popular personal finance writer and coach and basically a great consumer advocate. She also has a book out called, Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. And I love that title because these days, with all those higher prices, I feel like we are all losing our mind. So it's a great title for all this bananas inflation going on. Yeah, we're all losing our minds. Anyway, this is the second time that Jesse's been on. I loved our conversation and I know you will too. Make sure to listen to the end. I have some big personal news I'm going to share on the other side. But first, here is Jesse Fearon. Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessi Fearon:
Hi, thank you for having me again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, welcome back. You were here in one of my favorite episodes and we've rerun it, I think, twice because I love it so much. It's about your husband buying fireworks that he was not supposed to be buying. So we'll leave a link to that in the show notes, as they say. But I wanted to have you back because I have, in my hand, your new book, Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. By the time this comes out, it will be available for purchase. So everyone should check it out. Tell us quickly about the book.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, the book details my family's story of becoming financially free. We are a family of five living in Metro Atlanta and we paid off all of our consumer debts as well as our mortgage on a salary of just over $47,000 a year. And so, in Getting Good With Money, I share my family's story as well as I share practical tips to help other families find their own version of financial freedom because personal finance is, in fact, personal and it's going to be different for every single person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And personal finance is very personal, but there's something happening with so many of us that we're all facing these days that is making our lives very complicated and very frustrating and you've agreed to give us some tips about it. And that is inflation. Inflation, I think the last report was that it was up 7% versus a year ago, which is really a shocking number. We haven't seen that in many decades and it has a lot of people freaking out because we're hearing these news reports and then also we are seeing it with our own eyes. My husband went to the supermarket yesterday and he could not believe the prices. And he actually made some very different choices in terms of the things that he purchased. Even though we're not on the tightest budget these days, he just couldn't bring himself to pay the prices that he was seeing. So it's something that we're all facing. So what are your thoughts, first of all, in general, about what's going on with inflation as a money expert?

Jessi Fearon:
I mean, inflation is totally real, so if you think you're going crazy and going, "Man, why can I no longer feed my family on this grocery budget? Why is it so tough to fill up my car? Why does my budget feel so out of whack or things feel so strapped?" A lot of it has to do with inflation. So you're totally not crazy if you're feeling that way. I definitely just want to reiterate that because my husband can't even fill up his truck all the way anymore because the pumps cuts you off at a $100 now. He drives a huge diesel for his construction company and so it actually cuts him off now out because they don't want the pumps to go past Getting Good With Money: Pay Off Your Debt and Find a Life of Freedom Without Losing Your Mind. It's definitely real and it's affecting all aspects of our life and the grocery store is definitely a huge one.

Jessi Fearon:
I actually just got our groceries today so I saw it there at the grocery store as well. The prices, some have slowly crept up, but others are just quickly increasing. This past weekend, we had my oldest child, he just turned 10, so we had his little birthday party get together with friends, and whenever we do a big birthday party for my kids, I always order Little Caesar's pizzas because they have the $5 pizzas, the basic cheese and pepperoni pizza, but they actually have increased their prices to now $5.55. Inflation is just real and it's everywhere that we look, so if you are feeling that strain on your budget, it's not just you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so what can we be doing?

Jessi Fearon:
Well, the first thing to do is to get real with what you need, especially at the grocery store. As you were saying, your husband and decided not to buy certain things just because he couldn't bring himself to spend the money for those items. And I think that it's just time to get real with what you actually need and to maybe tailor some of those wants, but also to tailor the way that you eat. So I'm a huge fan of, I call them fillers. Growing up, my great grandparents immigrated from Germany, so a lot of the foods I grew up eating had a lot of cabbage in them, and cabbage is a fantastic filler because you can put it in tacos, you can put it in pasta or rice dishes or anything and just add it to any dish that you come up with, and it's just a great way of being able to stretch a meal without having to buy a whole bunch of meat and cook a bunch of meat and sink your budget that way.

Jessi Fearon:
You could do it with carrot or other vegetables. So just keep on paying attention to the way that you use protein. Make meat the sidekick instead of the hero. That will absolutely impact your budget, especially if you're married to a carnivore like me who wants to have all the meats. But make it the sidekick and not the hero. Let go of all the convenience foods, all the snacks and all of those things. I know it's so hard because my kids, they love the snacks as well, but tailor it down with the fresh fruits and the veggies. Those are great snack options to give your kids. And if you go ahead and you wash them when you come home from the grocery store and you chop them up and make them easy for kids to just grab them and go, it really will help stretch your budget and keep you out of those convenience foods and keep you out of some of those foods that are going to see the higher inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
With the produce, it's really hard to gauge how long it's going to last versus the amount of time it takes for your family to eat them. That's a place where you have some ideas.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes, so buy frozen as much as possible. I prefer frozen over canned, but canned is definitely an option there as well. But if you buy frozen vegetables in particular, if you buy them frozen, a lot of times you can buy them with the steamables in the bag, which saves you time as well as it saves you money because it's a very quick and easy way of preparing those vegetables and you don't have to worry about them sitting in your fridge and rotting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, definitely. And there can be a mix. I mean, you can do half and half, but just be careful with how much you have with the fresh fruit that goes bad. And also, you talk about just paying attention to what is going bad. See what your family actually consumes. Because I think sometimes when we buy food, we are aspirational. We think, "Oh, this would be something really good. Our family should be eating this." But then, when the actual meal times come and go, you're not eating the things that you think you should be eating and you're eating different things over and over again. And we don't really always take accurate inventory of what's actually going on.

Jessi Fearon:
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely start paying very close attention to what your family is consuming and what your family is not consuming. If you are constantly throwing out a pack of blueberries every single week because nobody really ate them and they're going bad, well then maybe your family really doesn't like to have blueberries. So maybe that is something that you just buy frozen instead of fresh. Same with any vegetables or any other produce that you notice that is just consistently going bad. If it's consistently going bad, consider either not buying it at all or buying it frozen instead of fresh.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other thing is, when you're in the grocery store these days, or even if you shop online, you see the price, but it's very hard to compare prices when you don't look at the cost per unit. And that's something that I often skip, which I know I shouldn't do, but you just see the big number. You don't always see way you're actually getting. Is that something? I mean, how do we do that? I shouldn't say, how do we do that? But it's a tricky thing the grocery stores are doing to us because we're not really seeing always the price hike.

Jessi Fearon:
Absolutely. I mean, if you get down to the nitty gritty of it and you start looking at, especially with snacks, when that big bag of chips that has the individual chips inside of them, think it's 18 in a pack, I just had to buy it for this party this past weekend, but if you actually paid attention to how much you were paying for each one of those individual chips, it helps you understand what the actual cost of that entire bag really is. And then it helps you make the decision on, would it be cheaper if I just bought the really big bag of chips instead of this bag that has all these other smaller bags in it? And usually the bigger bag of chips is actually going to be cheaper, but not always.

Jessi Fearon:
And it's important to know those kinds of things because, for my family, shopping at Costco, actually, it's not the best option for us because a lot of the stuff that's at Costco we don't consume enough to justify having to pay the membership fee and the price per unit there is too high for some of the items that we do consume where I can actually go to Aldi and buy a whole bunch of them and still save more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such an interesting point because we have these stereotypes in our head that certain stores are going to be the best deal for us, but that's not always true because, again, it circles back to, what are you actually consuming? And we actually let our Costco membership go a couple years ago because, number one, we didn't have storage for a lot of stuff from Costco, but we also weren't going through it. And we also would get sick of things before we would go through it and we were buying things because it was available there that we would not necessarily have bought otherwise. So we didn't find it was the greatest value. I think that's also a good lesson, is to really think about where the best deal for your family is and don't assume it's the same as what this overall belief for everyone around you is. It may be different for you than for the people that you see in your community going. Beyond the grocery store, where else can people save money with inflation affecting prices? What else can people be doing?

Jessi Fearon:
Well, if you do any online shopping, which most people do today, I think more people shop online now than they do going into a store, one of the things that I love to do is I love to use cashback websites. Two of my favorite are Swagbucks and Rakuten. I love using both of those. With Rakuten, you earn actual cashback. With Swagbucks, you earn what's called SBs and you can cash those out for gift cards. But this is a great way of stretching your budget and earning something back on your online purchases in order to help offset some things. And I always love to cash them out for gift cards for little splurge things, taking my kids to Chick-fil-A or, or whatever it may be. And it's just a helpful way of being able to stretch your budget.

Jessi Fearon:
And one that's not just available online is called Fetch Rewards. It's just playing fetch with a dog, and that is one where you just scan in your receipts. It can be your grocery receipts. It can be your home improvement store receipts. It can be your Amazon receipts. You can scan in any receipt and earn points back on that, that you also can cash out for gift cards.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk in the book about redefining comfort.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes, I definitely think that this one has always been really hard for me. It's hard for me even now, because, especially for us Americans, we have so much available to us. Amazon Prime has made two day shipping the norm and so it's always weird whenever we have to wait a little while for something. And so if we really want to make solid changes to our life, we have to look at the current direction that we're going in and then we have to decide, okay, this is not where I want to be going. I need to change my course, but how do I do that? And it usually involves sacrifice. And so you have to be prepared to just get a little bit uncomfortable to say no to things that maybe you really want to say yes to but you know that if you say no to this you'll be able to say yes to the really big thing that you're actually wanting to build for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
It all comes down to choices. So before we wrap up, tell us a little bit about where people can find out more about you and your new book, Getting Good With Money.

Jessi Fearon:
You can find me online at jessefearon.com and on social media at JesseFearon. And Getting Good With Money is available in all bookstores, including Target.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Jessi Fearon:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did. She's so real and relatable, and Jessi really shared a lot of great specific things that we can all be doing now. Look, I don't know about you, but I tend to do them and then I slack off. So it's good to have a reminder of things. Even if we know we should be doing them, we fall off the wagon sometimes. Now, my big news, this is something I've been working on for years. I've mentioned it from time to time here. So it's not a surprise for regular listeners, but it is now very real. And it sounds funny to say this, but I feel like a book is not real until you actually see it and people can buy it on Amazon. And that is what happened in the last week with my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life By Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book was inspired by my older kids. I have a story that I share on my website about a night in 2018 when it was a big deadline for Roth IRAs and they just wouldn't listen to me. It just gave me so much frustration. So the kids have been really generous in letting me talk about them in the book and share a lot of behind the scenes of what's going on in our family. It's not always so pretty. In fact, the real aha moment came from times like I just mentioned when they just weren't interested and I just kept failing them. I felt like such a failure as a parent because I knew all this stuff, I knew everything on paper, I knew what they should be doing, but I couldn't get them to do it and I really felt that I couldn't do it myself for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, when kids, I'm calling them kids, but when they're of adult age, there's a lot of stuff you can't do for them because they aren't minors. So you have to help them do it themselves to some degree even if you're encouraging them and there to show them what to do. So, anyway, I figured if I was having so much trouble getting my kids to become financial grownups, I probably was not alone. The book was quite an experience. I tapped into an amazing resource of so many parenting and money experts and a lot of psychology going into this, a lot of therapists that helped me to write this book. So I'm really excited to share it with you. It is definitely part psychology and how to deal with the changing brains of older teens and young adults and what is going to work for them versus a little kid, because it is very different.

Bobbi Rebell:
So the book isn't officially out until March, but if you pre-order it, it helps me out so much. Places like Amazon, they use algorithms to decide which books to suggest to people. So if you guys place pre-orders, that's going to be huge because it'll bump it up. And Amazon, by the way, right now it's pretty expensive, but Amazon will adjust the price if it drops it when the book comes out and it almost always does discount the book pretty heavily. So please don't let that stop you from pre-ordering. Launching Financial Grownups, like I said, is on Amazon now, and if you go to my website and click on the Books tab, you can learn more about the book and more about the backstory as well. And, also, there are buttons that you can just press to order it from somewhere else if you don't want to order it from Amazon. For example, if you want to support independent bookstores, we can help link you up there.

Bobbi Rebell:
This topic is so important to pretty much everyone who cares about the phone financial future of members of their family, parents and kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, family, friends. If you have a young person in your life that you care about, this is the book for you. So please tell your friends about the book. As well, I need your help getting the word out and I truly appreciate it. Big thanks to this week's guest, Jesse Fearon, author of Getting Good With Money, for helping us all be financial grownups. Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebellone on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me and, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our Merch Shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

The Success Factor author explains how to know what kind of mentor you need, how to look for one in sometimes unexpected places, and the best ways to get top mentors to help you achieve your goals.

Learn Why You Need A Mentor, Where To Find Them, And More!

Learn what the 24/7/30 rule is and how it can help to grow your network.

How to approach someone to be your mentor.

Be open to learning from anyone and at any age. You never know when or where you will run into your next mentor.

Be open and honest with your mentor. If you don’t know how to do something, tell them.

---

Follow Ruth!

• Instagram - @ruthgotian

• Twitter - @ruthgotian

• LinkedIn - @rgotian

• YouTube

• Website - https://www.ruthgotian.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Before we start the podcast, I want to talk to you about keeping things in perspective and remembering sometimes, we just have to laugh it off. We need that. Life is full of grownup choices and it can be a lot. So, it's important to keep things in perspective and have a sense of humor. That's why I created Grownup Gear. It is super fun merch to celebrate adulting. T-shirts, sweats, mugs, I even have kitchen aprons for cooking. It lets everyone know that you are a grownup or at least a grownup in progress, or at least you know someone who's a grownup. We even have the cutest baby gear from onesies to bibs that say things like, "I can't believe you are the grownup." The best gifts for new parents, birthdays, engagements, graduation, pretty much any occasion, even a great gift for yourself. Check it all out at grownupgear.com.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He told me at the Olympic Village they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control. He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, when it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. I hope everyone is staying healthy and safe these days. Last week, I talked about the use it or lose it strategy and how, as hard as the last two years have been with COVID, when we are ready, we really should try to get on with it when it comes to our goals. Many of us hit pause on a lot of stuff and just sat still for a while. And at a certain point, I think a lot of us have to decide if the pause is a stop and exit or if we are going to hit play again and move forward. And it is with that in mind that I am excited to share my interview with Dr. Ruth Gotian. She is the chief learning officer and assistant professor of education in anesthesiology and former assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell Medicine.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's more. She also writes a fantastic Forbes column that I have been binging on. But I wanted her to come on the podcast because of her new book, The Success Factor. For the book, she talked to super high achievers, Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, top athletes to kind of figure out what they all had in common. One highlight that I'm excited to share with you is what she had to say about mentoring and a very well known doctor that she talked to. I hope you enjoy our chat. Here is Dr. Ruth Gotian. Dr. Ruth Gotian, welcome to the podcast. You are a financial grownup.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I am, I guess.

Bobbi Rebell:
You absolutely are. You are so amazing. I mean, look, I've already introduced you to our listeners, but you studied the mindset and skillset of peak performers including Nobel Prize winners, astronauts, Olympic champions, Dr. Anthony Fauci. We're going to talk about that later. You put it all into a new book called The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I did. For years, and years, and years, I literally got a doctorate in success. I'm not obsessed with it. I want to know how people get it and how the rest of us can attain it and keep it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, one of the things that caught my eye in your work is that you really focus on mentoring. I mean, that's been something that's been a big part of your career. You were the assistant dean of mentoring and executive director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell. Now, what role does mentoring play in success?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
All of the extreme high achievers who I've interviewed, and it ranges from, as you said, the Nobel Prize winners, the astronauts, the NBA champions, Olympic champions, CEOs, every single one of them had not one mentor but a team of mentors. So, instead of looking for that one perfect person, they created their version of perfect by surrounding themselves with people who believed in them more than they believed in themselves. And if that's what the astronauts, and the Olympic champions, and the Nobel Prize winners do, why aren't the rest of us doing that?

Bobbi Rebell:
How do we even get started identifying what we need? And especially in the pandemic, which as of now, I mean, there's still a lot of things keeping us from doing those IRL things that used to be a resource. What do we do now given where we are in the world?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I actually think it's easier now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hmm, interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Because, yes, because you're no longer confined to the people who are close to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
You can actually spread your wings and find mentors from all over the world. So, what are some of the ways that we can find mentors when we can't meet face to face? Well, if you ever listen to a podcast, if you ever listen to a lecture or a workshop or a YouTube video, or took a class, or you're in these meetings at work, listen to what is being said, listen to the person who is talking. But, and here's the secret that most people don't do, pay attention to the comments. The people who are attending, whatever it is that you are actually watching and participating in, they have the same ideas, they have the same vision, they have the same hopes and goals. They want to learn from whoever is the presenter. So, you have that commonality.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Now, if they made a comment that really resonated with you, you should reach out to them and say, "You know, Bobbi, I really loved what you said about blah, blah, blah that really resonated with me because of whatever." And then, you start connecting with them on social media and then you start engaging with their posts, and then you can start sharing information with what my friend, Andy Lopata, calls the 24/7/30 rule. Which is, after you meet someone, your first point of contact is 24 hours later, second point of contact is seven days later, and then the third point of contact is 30 days later. Now, at this point, you are no longer a stranger. You've actually communicated with someone, you've been engaging with them, not so much that you're stalking, but engaging with their content. Now, the thing is, you don't ever ask someone to be your mentor, because, "I don't know about you. I think we're all busy, really busy."

Bobbi Rebell:
It feels like another to-do item on my list-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when someone says that to me.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Exactly. It feels like another obligation, doesn't it?

Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
So, don't ask someone to do that because that almost feels like, "Ugh, I got to take on another job." But ask them for their perspective on something, "Can I get your opinion on something? I just wanted to run something by you to make sure I don't have my blinders," we all have 15 minutes for that, don't we? That's actually mentorship. We just didn't give it that label. And once you start doing that, it really helps. And remember, you are not a mentor until the mentee calls you one. It's earned.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very interesting. And it also needs to be not just a one-way relationship, right?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Absolutely. It's definitely two ways. And actually, you can and should be helping your mentor out. And trust me, I don't care how junior you are, there is always something that you can offer the mentor. And you should be giving before you're ever taking, before you ever ask for their help. Always offer to help.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be an example? Because a lot of people may be saying, "Oh, what can I possibly offer?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I'm actually helping a Nobel Prize winner market his book. I'm never going to be a Nobel Prize winner, I'm not even a basic scientist. But here is somebody who is a Nobel Prize winner and he is a brilliant physician scientist, wrote a book, but doesn't know the first thing about marketing. I have a Master's Degree in Business, I know a thing or two about marketing, plus I have my own book, The Success Factor. So, I'm actually help helping him through that. So, here is somebody who's significantly junior, in this case me, helping somebody who's significantly senior to me. Now, the flip side of that, I was once at a conference and I was recruiting students for this program that I used to run.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
I don't know if you've ever been recruiting at these conferences, you stand in your booth and you say the same thing over and over and over again, really hoping to sound excited at the 100th time that you've said it. All of a sudden, I see everybody staring at their phone. I realized as we walked into the conference center, there was a big board on easel with what I thought was a symbol of the pound symbol. It actually turned out to the a hashtag and a blue bird. And that's when I first found out about Twitter. And I called somebody, a former student of mine who's a generation and a half younger than me and I said, "Why is everyone staring at the phone? What is all this tweet, tweet, tweet they're talking about?"

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And that's when I realized that the conversations I was having one on one, I could have one with thousands of people. And they were much more chatty on that platform than they were with me because they might have been intimidated. That night, I went to my hotel room. 11:30 at night, I sat on the floor, opened my first Twitter account, didn't even have a picture, it was just an egg, but that's how I got introduced, how I got trained. It was actually somebody, a generation a half younger than me. So, you never know where this can come from.

Bobbi Rebell:
You never know where this can come from. One of the many things that you do, you have so many different things going on. I am so in awe of everything you do, but I really enjoy your Forbes column. And so, I did see you have a number of them on the topic of mentoring. But I did want to pull a few tips from one of them and encourage everyone to go right on your website, you can go to all of your Forbes articles and get the full thing. But let's do a few highlights there because you have some mentor-related tips of how to be a good mentor. And you've talked about staying engaged in person, virtual, and social. "Deadlines' not recommendations." I thought that-

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... was interesting.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yeah, that's a big one which I repeat quite often. And I'm really excited that we're talking about it because January's National Mentoring Month. So, this whole idea of deadlines are not recommendations, if someone tells you that something is due on January 10th, you don't submit it January 11th. Frankly, if you're submitting it January 10th, it's likely too late because the deadline is the drop dead date. So, you always want to submit it early because you know on that deadline date, the Internet's going to go down, the copier is jammed, there's always a problem. But there are always people who think that those deadlines are flexible. No, they're not. And they're not recommendations. They are firm, very firm. And you always want to, not just meet, meeting is average, you want to exceed. So, you want to submit it early.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another tip from the article is, "Be honest." In the context of mentoring, what does that mean?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Don't promise that you can do something that you can't. Don't say that you know how to do something when you can't. Be transparent about what you can and cannot do. Be transparent about what you're hesitant to do, what you're afraid to do, what you're excited to do and why. And I think the more honest you are and more transparent you are, your mentor will be as well. And those are the best kind of relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to leave time to talk about your book. So, I'm going to just tell people to go look at your website, which is just your name. And we'll have links in the show notes, et cetera, to get more of your tips in your Forbes articles. But tell us more about The Success Factor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
The Success Factor is years of research that I put into setting the most extreme high achievers of our generation, everyone from the former NASA Chief Astronaut Dr. Peggy Whitson, a lot of Nobel Prize winners, Dr. Mike Brown and Dr. Bob Lefkowitz, NBA stars, eight-time NBA champion Steve Kerr, NFL Hall of Famer Curtis Martin, Olympic champions like Scott Hamilton and the most decorated Winter Olympian, Apolo Anton Ohno.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Dr. Anthony Fauci, by the way, what was he like?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Yes. He was great. They were all fantastic, very forthcoming. It was interesting I actually interviewed him before the pandemic. I said, "How do you pick which projects to work on?" Because he worked on HIV, Ebola, SARS, right? He said, "I pick something important, not just interesting. Because if it's important, it'll have an impact. And that's why I can't drop my pen at 5:00." And that explains why he's over 80 years old. He could have retired a long time ago, but he's clearly so passionate about what it is that he's doing. And that was the same thing with Dr. Fauci, that was the same thing with the astronauts, that was the same thing with the elite athletes. They have found what it is that they are so passionate about, that they love doing. They can't see themselves not doing it. They would do it for free if they didn't have bills to pay. Right?They loved it so much and that's why they work so hard at it.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
And it's not just working the long hours, it's actually working smarter, which also includes rest time which is critical. So, those are the first two and Dr. Fauci was a perfect example of that as well. The third thing that they all had in common was a really strong foundation which they're constantly reinforcing, what they did early in their careers is what they did later in their careers. They don't say, "Oh, I won an NBA championship. I don't need to do lay ups anymore in my warmup." No. Ryan Millar, three-time Olympian, gold medal volleyball player, he told me that the most important thing in volleyball is not how high you can jump, it's ball control. And he told me at the Olympic village, they would practice and warm up with this technique, with a skill called pepper which works on the ball control.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
He said, "We did that at the Olympics. It's what I did in my backyard when I was seven years old, the same exact thing." That's what they all do. And then, last but not least, doesn't matter that they have the Nobel, doesn't matter that they have all these fancy degrees, they are constantly learning, constantly trying to get new knowledge. While some of them, like you've heard the billionaires who read for three to eight hours a day, that works for them. But what made them billionaires is not that they read three to eight hours a day, it's that they were open to new knowledge. So, what are some of the other ways that you can get new knowledge? You could read articles, blogs, listen to podcasts such as this one, hopefully I'm sharing good stuff, YouTube, LinkedIn learning. I mean it's endless, the ways that you can learn new things.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is. And by the way, for our listeners, you read something like 70 to 100 books a year. You're reading three at once. So, I'm not going to challenge people to do that, but my challenge for myself is to just read more, maybe two a month. I read about one and a half a month, I would say. And I really enjoy my reading time and I enjoy more and more reading books not on screens. I know you are on every medium, so. But anyway, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people catch up with you and get all of your resources including The Success Factor?

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
Thank you so much. Yes. The Success Factor is available wherever you love to buy books. And if you want to know where you can find them, you could just go to my website, ruthgotian.com. And to find out where the books are, it's ruthgotian.com/book. And if you get the book by January 24th, you actually get a free bonus of all these different ways that you can approach strangers and start a conversation and not be awkward or weird about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, I need that right away. Okay. It's so hard. Oh, conversation starters. Oh my goodness. All right. Thank you so much.

Dr. Ruth Gotian:
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much to think about. And I definitely want those conversation starter tips. I mean, it's always so awkward. I'm also thinking a lot about what she said on how we shouldn't only think about that person who's up on stage speaking when we attend some kind of conference, it's also the people in the room, even by the way, if that room is virtual. And also, the additional opportunities that this remote world has opened up for all of us to connect in new and sometimes more focused ways. I would love to hear what resonated with you guys. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and I would love to share more grownup resources with you. I'm putting them in my newsletter, which is free. You can sign up for it right on my website, bobbirebell.com, which is also where you get show notes and other resources. Big thanks to The Success Factor author Dr. Ruth Gotian for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Instead of resolutions, and thinking about what we should be doing, let’s block out time to take stock of what we have and then decide: should we use it, or lose it?

2022 is here!
Will you use it or lose it?

• If you have stuff that you aren’t using, and haven’t used in awhile, lose it.

• Those course resources or subscriptions you aren’t using but are still paying for, lose it.

• Take a look at your social media accounts. Focus your time on a couple of platforms and don’t worry about the rest. You can always come back to the others ones later.

• Schedule things out so that you can focus your time on the things you really want to be spending your time on. If you haven’t tried time blocking, I highly suggest you try it out.

---

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Joe Saul-Sehy, along with co-author Emily Guy Birken, is out with his first book. Bobbi puts him on the spot with a fun game of financial free association. Listen to hear how Joe did- and if you would have the same answers. 

Money Tips from Joe’s book

1. Financial Fasting

2. Electricity Jumanji

3. Pretend it’s the 70’s and Do the hustle

4. Understanding the CubE

5. Emily’s love of custom stickers

6. Get Two drinks even with American Express

7. Cancel culture ( as in credit cards)

8. Einstein approved 

9. God Invest the queen

10. Analysis paralysis

11. Quick Draw
    
    

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Follow Joe!

• Instagram - @stackingbenjaminspodcast

• Facebook - @IStackBenjamins

• Twitter - @AverageJoeMoney

• LinkedIn - @joe-saul-sehy

• YouTube - @stackingbenjamins

• Website - https://joesaulsehy.com and https://www.stackingbenjamins.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never-ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is, it's also really hard, and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
My team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup, either," and new colors and designs of our top-selling Generosity line.

Bobbi Rebell:
For the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y, and thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy Holidays, guys.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Do you always make sure you get your money's worth, especially when you paid for something and you feel like it's kind of your revenge reward kind of thing? So for example, and this is something we're going to talk about in the episode, in the interview, if you've earned status on a credit card, are you going to use every single perk and get every possible freebie? Even if it's not something that you necessarily would've wanted, otherwise? I mean, there's no reason not to. Money is funny that way, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Also funny is Joe Saul-Sehy. He is the co-host of the Stacking Benjamin's Podcast and the co-author of Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management, out today, by the way, if you are listening to this episode on the day that it drops. If you've been listening, by the way, to this podcast for a while, you know that name because Joe and I used to have a little podcast together, called Money With Friends, that we put on hold because, well, we both got book deals. So, Joe stopped by to promote his book, and I, of course, took the opportunity to put him on the spot with a little game of financial free association. Joe was kind enough to play along, and you'll get a kick out of this, I promise. Here is Joe Saul-Sehy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Joe Saul-Sehy, my friend, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It feels like old days. We're back on together, Bobbi. We got the band back together.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are back on, and typical of me, I'm literally multitasking as we start because I didn't check all your audio stuff, but you're all good. Of course, you are.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And typical of me, I am about 20 minutes late.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is typical of you, yes. Okay. So, we know we are still ourselves, very much so. This is a big occasion. We stopped our mutual podcast because we both, which was called Money With Friends, which was an amazing podcast, and maybe one day it will be revived, but we stopped it because we each got these book deals. So of course, you had to be first. Your book is coming out in late... December 28th. So first of all, congratulations for getting it done.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
No one doubted it at all.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
The first time I tried it, it took 10 years. So as you know, I got a great co-author. Emily Guy Birken kind of helped me get through the process, which was fantastic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So Joe, you beat me to the punch. Your book is coming out first. It is called Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. I like to keep you on your toes, so we're going to play a game, and it's called Financial Free Association. What I'm going to do is, I'm going to pull some words and catch phrases out of the book, Stacked, and you're going to tell me a money tip or a money lesson from that phrase. Just so everyone knows, this has not been rehearsed. I am throwing this at Joe, spontaneously. He's doing a little crying on the screen, which you guys can't see, but it's going to be all worth it because I know he's going to come up with some amazing advice from these little catch phrases and words from his book, Stacked, which by the way, again, co-written with Emily Guy Birken, who we have to give all the credit for the book, and Joe is wonderful as the face of the book, promoting it here today with us. All right. So, here we go. Number one, financial fasting.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Financial fasting is when you to take a break, just like when you do a regular fast. You take a break from spending to really see what comes out. What's important to spend money on, and what's not important to spend money on? So when you do a financial fast, you say, "You know what? I'm no longer going to maybe," along with eating, "I'm no longer going to eat at restaurants. I'm no longer going to buy stuff I don't need," outside of, let's say, groceries to live, right? But even before groceries to live, if you're really doing the fast, depending on how big a fast you're doing, you might not buy groceries until you clean everything out of the freezer and the refrigerator. You go through everything before you end the fast. A fast is a way to figure out what's important in your life and what's not, so when you create the real budget, you can design it around those things that are important to you and avoid all the stuff that's not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, electricity Jumanji.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
My kids are 26 now, but this is back when they were about eight-years-old, and at that time, bills came in the mail once a month for the utility bill for electricity. So what we did was, we just took out some graph paper, and you could still do this, right, with your monthly... if you get the electronic notice of what your bill is going to be each month. We took out some graph paper, and we played a limbo game. We played Jumanji. It's, how low can you go with this electric bill? And it was awesome because I went from me being the only one who cared.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Guess what the prize was? There was no prize. There was no prize. It was just, let's see if we can do this together and make it a game. How low can we go? Can we beat last month? And just that little bit of motivation, I would be watching a television, and I'd leave the room to go get a snack, and I come back, and my daughter's got the TV off. She's like, "Dad, you left the room. You got to turn the TV off. You're wasting electricity." So, my kids went from not caring at all to caring a lot, and it wasn't through yelling. It was through involving my kids in what the real goal was for the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing that. I'm seeing how I can apply that to my family. It's hard.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It is hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to work at it. All right, for number three, we're going to pretend it's the 1970s. Okay. Do the hustle.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
I had a great interview with a guy that, Bobbi, you know I've had a crush on for a long time, Austin Kleon, who wrote Steal like an Artist, and he's this business person meets artist, and I asked him about side hustles and he said, "You know what? Time away from your job actually informs your job." And he said, "It's when I play guitar that I get great ideas for my business. It's not when I'm in the trenches doing the business. It's when I'm away." He said, "So, I really like side hustles because they kind of inform each other. It keeps you fresh. And, if it's for something small, like I want to pay off this credit card that I screwed up with, or I want to pay for this trip without having it come out of the budget. I want it to be extra, the side hustle can do all of that."

Bobbi Rebell:
Number four, understanding the cube, understanding the cube.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Oh, this is fantastic. I had a mentor tell me this, that whenever you're in a discussion, we all are trying so hard to get whoever we're in this discussion with to understand our point of view, and yet every discussion that we have is a cube. You're sitting, Bobbi, on one side of the cube, and I'm sitting on the other side of the cube, and it's imaginary. My mentor told me, he said, "Whoever sees the other person's side of the cube and looks at it from their point of view, from the other person's point of view, that person will be the first person to really be able to bridge that gap between the two of us." So when you're in any negotiation, and in the book, we talk about it in terms of a salary negotiation, right?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Understand what your boss wants. Your side of the cube is I got a lot of bills. I want more money. Daddy needs new shoes, whatever the thing is, that's what we want, but your boss wants more productivity, wants to understand how they tell their boss to give you a raise. What are you going to do for the department then that you're not doing for them now? Understand the other side. There's a truism that mom has said for a long time, that this goes back to, which is seek first to understand, and then to be understood, and that really is what the cube is all about.

Bobbi Rebell:
This one's a bit of a twist. Custom stickers, as in something Emily wanted. Custom stickers.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You pulled for these, man. We get tripped up by credit card debt, and Emily, as a young college student, was like, "You know what? I'm not going for the Frisbee, or the pizza, or the stadium blanket," that they would used to have on campus. As you know, Bobbi, they can't do that anymore. But back in the day, man, a lot of us got in trouble for a free, quote, free Frisbee or a free stadium blanket, and they still offer these things even through the mail now. So, Emily was very proud of herself that she did not get caught up in credit card debt by the usual means.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
And then, she got this letter in the mail from a credit card company, and it said that she could get stickers, that she would be able to choose what her credit card looked like on the front, and if you want to get Emily, you just got to offer her stickers, and she's yours. So, Emily ended up in credit card debt, like the rest of us, over custom stickers, which was really to make the bigger point that credit card companies have done so much research on you, and they know what your hot button is, and if they don't, they're going to find it and realize that there's a serious game being played against you when it comes to credit cards. So, you need to play a serious game on your end, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Next, we've got tipsy flying as in two drinks at the airport lounge, two drinks at the airport lounge, Joe, courtesy of American Express?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Two drinks at the... Is this talking about getting the reward cards?

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about the fact that you always get at least two drinks...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... when you go to the Amex lounge.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
This is...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you're always a little tipsy on the airplane, Joe, but you got your money's worth. That's the important thing.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's okay to be a little bit tipsy, as long as you get your money's worth.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Well, no. Actually, the bigger point there was actually that maybe I wrote that wrong, because I didn't want that to be the point. The point, though, was I was a mess with credit cards when I was, like we just talked about with Emily, I was a disaster with credit cards. I had a bunch of credit card debt. I also went for the reward point program when I had no business doing that. I'm paying 25% interest, and I'm thinking, "Yeah, I'm getting these rewards." Well, I'm paying way, way over the amount that I was paying then in interest for the rewards I was getting. I was funding my own quote rewards. Well, now, I'm the opposite.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Now, I have this badass credit card that gets me into the lounges, and I love... It's funny. My son just went to one of the lounges with us. He went as my guest on a flight that we just took, and he's like, "Oh, I've heard about these. I don't really care," and then we went up into the lounge, and 10 minutes in, Bobbi, he's like, "How much did this cost? What is this? Really? I can eat whatever I want over here and..." Yes. You can do all that. You have your own little private area. It's very nice. They take care of you. You're in this calm environment. I now go to the airport, sometimes, 45 minutes early, just so I can have a good meal before my flight, relax a little bit, and to your point, have a couple drinks. But my point is, you play the reward game once you have your act together. I had no business playing the reward game before. Now, I'm getting all that money back that I gave them by making sure that I have two drinks on them every time I fly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's stick with the credit card theme here. Beware cancel culture. Beware of cancel culture.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah. If you cancel a credit card that's your oldest credit card, that may lower the amount of time that they think that you've had credit. I actually had this horrible credit card from the mid '90s, Bobbi, that I only last year finally canceled. I finally canceled it last year, and it's because I've got plenty other credit. My length of credit's fine without it, so I went ahead and got rid of that. What is interesting, though, because like everybody or like a lot of people, my credit cards also show me my credit score all the time now, which is a cool perk of a lot of cards. When I canceled that card, still went down a couple points. It went from like 820 to 815, and nothing happened, besides the fact that I canceled a credit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wrong.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
It's stupid.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it is what it is. Like a lot of these things, it's wrong. It shouldn't be, but we got to work with what...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
... we got to work with.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Know how the game's played.

Bobbi Rebell:
Next up, Einstein-approved.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
There's this phrase that's been attributed to Einstein, which is about compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world. A lot of people say, Einstein said that. Well, Einstein didn't really say that. However, it still made our book because it's so often attributed to him, and we talked about here's this guy who's splitting atoms for fun, doing these crazy things with tweezers and atoms that nobody else can do, and he's bragging, supposedly, about compounding interest, and what is compounding interest? People talk about it different ways.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Here's the way Emily and I talk about it. Your money, when you get interest, it's like your money, Bobbi had a baby, right? And that's interest, but compounding interest is when your money baby has a baby, and then your money grandkid has a baby, and you're in with this $1. You're creating this lineage of compounding interest, so that... I'm as lazy as the next guy, so that I can sit on my butt at home, and I've got my money out there. All my money babies are out there working for me. How great is that? And so, that strategy of building money on your money, that's Einstein-approved.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Last one for the win, analysis paralysis.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Yes. Oh, I play board games as you know, Bobbi, and we've got this friend who takes all day to do anything, and it kills the game. That's fine. Killing game nights, okay, but taking so long to make a decision that you miss the opportunity is absolutely horrible, and I have a coach who taught me recently that you should work by the 80% rule, which is if it's 80%, right and the way that you should go, then you got to get moving that way, and I like that because movement, even the wrong movement, teaches you something. If you learn that this was the wrong way to move, it's easy, then, to tweak, right? We'll tweak. We'll either not make the same mistake, or we'll tweak it to be better next time, or we can tweak it this time. Most of the time, movement is not going to hurt you, unless it's second-guessing your strategy. That's the one place where sitting in one place is good, but too many people suffer from... I need more information. I need more information. It's just, I don't want to make a decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true, and so many things just don't happen in life because we just don't act, and I think one thing that I like about Sacked is that it will hopefully inspire lots of people to act. Tell us more about... Wait, I have to say the whole title properly now. We practiced this. Stacked: Your Super Serious Guide to Modern Money Management. Did I say it right, Joe?

Joe Saul-Sehy:
You did. So when you're pitching the book, I was telling these editors from these different publishing houses. So here's the idea. I'd like to take the Cub Scout Wolf Guide, combined with the Hardy Boys Detective Manual, but make it serious and about money for adults. What do you think? And I thought, they're going to think I'm crazy, and the world's biggest publishing house said, "We're in. That sounds awesome." The book is meant to be very easy at the beginning, because I don't know where you're starting from, but at the end, it goes over some very seriously complex things. We start off with stacking your first Benjamin, and then stacking Benjamins, and then protecting your Benjamins, and then stacking stacks on your stacks of Benjamins. It isn't meant to be read from beginning to end. It's meant to be this guidebook, like I had when I had the Hardy Boys Detective Manual. I'd pick it up and learn how to...

Joe Saul-Sehy:
When my mom touched a doorknob, my brother and I would go over with the tape. Right? We'd make that we got that fingerprint, because you never knew what mom was doing. I wanted people to carry the book around that way. So, it's Stacked. It's out today, which is awesome. We're so excited, and it's available everywhere. Please, if you're going to buy it, buy it from your local bookshop, if at all possible, and we've got lots of links on our site, stackingbenjamins.com/stacked. I'm also going to be going on the road, 42 cities. I'm going to come see Bobbi, and we're going to see different cities. So if you want to follow us and come hang out and nerd out with other like-minded people, see what city is close to you, and come hang out with us in the next three months.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, Joe.

Joe Saul-Sehy:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff there to get us set up for the new year. I love the part about Joe making sure to get the most out of those reward cards, because like I talked about in the open, we totally do things that we can get for free, even if we don't actually want them as is often the case with things like free food, or in Joe's case, free alcohol. We just like the idea that it's free, and we don't want to miss that opportunity, even if we don't actually want the thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm curious, what freebies do you guys take, just because they're free and maybe you wouldn't, if you actually were paying for them? Probably a lot, but you kind of feel like you earned it, right? So those kind of things, DM me on Instagram at @BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and I'm going to have some freebies for all of you in the new year, as I get ready to release my book, called Launching Financial Grownups. Get on my newsletter to be the first ones to hear about them. You can sign up by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, Stacked is now out, so get your copy, and get yourself set up for the new year in a really good way. Big thanks to my friend, Joe Saul-Sehy, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media. @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and @BobbiRebell on, both, Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media, and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

This holiday season shopping is back- but with rising prices, shipping delays and the urge to make up for lost time, grownups need strategies. Here’s how to get the gifts that that won’t be out of stock, and to make sure YOU are in control of what you pay. 

5 Holiday Shopping Tips

1. Get your priorities in order

2. Flip the list

3. Gift things with flexible prices

4. Gift certificates to local restaurants or meal services

5. Family gifts

---

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Want to have more money AND a better planet? Learn what we can control that really matters- and what we are over stressing about when it comes to climate change, waste, carbon offsets, plastic straws and all those questions about which milk to order from Wallet Activist author Tanja Hester. 

Money Tips

• Why you might want to consider joining the sharing economy

• Donating isn’t always a good thing.

• Learn what some alternatives are.

• Beware the DIY trap

• What it means to factor in your own financial well being and how to do that
  

---

Follow Tanja!

• Instagram - @our_nextlife

• Facebook - @ournextlife

• Twitter - @our_nextlife

• Pinterest - @our_nextlife

• YouTube

• Website - https://ournextlife.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear, with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity Line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday. Holiday. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself face up to your food waste, like put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family, or you, create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. Then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eye-opening and that can be really motivating.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. That opening clip, from Tanja Hester, it's a bit much, while it would certainly be very impactful for my family, if we all put our wasted food in a bucket, in our refrigerator for a week, to see just how bad we are with wasting food. We already know that. Let's just be honest. We know we're terrible at it. So, that's part of why I wanted to talk to Tanja. And if her name by the way, sounds familiar, that's because she's been here before talking about her first book, Work Optional. Even though she is technically retired, that's the title of her book, Tanja is so passionate out the topic for her new book, Wallet Activism, that she couldn't help but write at least one more book. Tanja is also a familiar name to many of you because of her successful blog, Our Next Life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now in our interview, Tanja and I talk about everything from the sharing economy on a practical basis, because we say that a lot, but I don't know if we really do it in real life. Also, her unique take on Marie Kondo, when it matters to buy organic or even grass-fed, and also why I'm being ripped off when I get oat milk in my coffee and they charge me more. Apparently, it doesn't really cost more. We're going to learn a lot more from Tanja about kind of how everything fits into the ecosystem. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Wallet Activism, author Tanja Hester.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much for having me back.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you back to talk about your latest project. It's a book and it's a podcast called Wallet Activism: How To Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn And Save, As A Force For Change. This is a follow-up book, well really a separate book, but your second book, to Work Optional, which I really enjoyed and was a huge bestseller. So congratulations and welcome back.

Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about the money tips that you share in Wallet Activists. The first one has to do with the sharing economy and kind of taking it to a next level. This is not just about sharing an Uber ride and that kind of thing. This is about just don't buy stuff.

Tanja Hester:
Share it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have various specific ways this can actually happen because some people, myself included as I started to read this part of the book, are doing some eye rolls right now.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, you know, I think that the way that our economy and society have gone, they've worked to make everything cheaper, so that we've been trained out of thinking of different ways of acquiring something.

Tanja Hester:
So let's say you're doing a home improvement project and you think, "Oh, I'm going to need a saw for this." You look at Home Depot, it's only $60 to buy a saw and you think, "Oh, that's not bad. I'll just buy it." But then suddenly we've got a situation where we all have a ton of stuff sitting around that's really resource intensive to produce, impossible to recycle, that'll be obsolete after however many years, or it'll just sit in your garage or closet and rust and not be usable after a long time.

Tanja Hester:
But instead, we could all go back to how folks used to think about these things. I'm not saying this to like, oh, the good old days were the best or anything like that. But in this particular area, the idea of borrowing things or why does everyone on a block need own their own lawnmower? Why couldn't you share with different neighbors? Why couldn't you rent a saw or a drill for the project and then give it back and someone else can use it.

Tanja Hester:
A lot of the tips that I offer, I think this is a good example, are both good for the planet and other people, so we're not contributing a whole bunch of demand for stuff that's ultimately just going through our resources, resulting in a lot of carbon emissions, resulting in exploitation of workers, but it's also saving you money. You know, renting a power tool is a lot cheaper than buying it. The same is true if you share something across multiple neighbors, or friends, or whatever makes sense in your situation. Obviously not everybody has a house and a yard, but fill in the blanks with your stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk throughout the book, by the way, about factoring in your own financial wellbeing and it's important to look out for yourself and don't always be... The dominant thing doesn't have to always be giving, giving, giving. Part of giving is creating your own financial foundation and maintaining it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also say some things that make sense, but only after you explain it, because they're a little bit counterintuitive. For example, Marie Kondo, cleaning out. Minimalism has been a big trend, but it's not really that simple. You have some interesting thoughts about donations and what we do with our stuff because we all have so much stuff. We think we're doing good when we donate it and we certainly have good intentions, but explain. It's not so simple, right?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, the most important part to me of Marie's message is actually take good care of the things that you own and help them last longer. I think that part's been totally lost in favor of, trash anything that doesn't spark joy. The problem is that we have such a huge flow of things going to donation centers. You know, everybody loves to take their garbage bags full of stuff to Goodwill, that most of what Goodwill does is actually not sell our discards. It's actually throw them away and they pay a huge amount of money every month, as do other charitable organizations that take donations in physical form, just to send stuff to the landfill.

Tanja Hester:
I think if we all knew that what we were donating was most likely either going to the landfill or worse, getting loaded on a ship and sent to Africa, where it was decimating local textile industries, I think we would be a lot more thoughtful about it, but we feel like we're sending stuff out and it's doing good rather than we're sending stuff to the trash, I think we would approach things differently.

Tanja Hester:
So, I propose a different standard rather than sparking joy or using it, and thinking instead about, could I get more useful life out of this and maybe it's repurposing it in some way. It doesn't have to be wearing a dress that you hate forever, or a dress that doesn't fit. You know, it's thinking, could I use the fabric and make something else with it or whatever it might be. If you can't that, then working a little bit harder to put those items, you're discarding into the hands of someone who will actually use them, rather than just sort of blindly sending them off to the donation center.

Tanja Hester:
So rather whether it's trading with friends, or listing things online, or on a buy nothing group, there's so many different options now for discarding things a bit more thoughtfully, that will make sure we're not just sending huge amounts of stuff to the landfill and even worse than filling that empty space with new stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said. And you have a lot of specific resources in the book and through your website, et cetera, that we can refer people to, to get more details on how to actually do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another interesting thing, we're talking about activism, but also money tips, is to be aware of the DIY trap. People think if they do it themselves, they're going to save money and it's all good and it's great, but there's a lot to be wary about there.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, I think if folks have hobbies that are doing things yourself, making kombucha, for example, that can actually be a great way to save resources because you don't need special gear to make kombucha versus buying a steady stream of bottles from the store. If you like to drink it often, you can reuse the same bottles over and over and over, if you make it yourself.

Tanja Hester:
But there are other things that are DIY where you sort of say, "Well, you know, if everyone just did this ourselves, we'd actually save resources." And that's in fact not true. If we all tried to grow all our own food, think about how much more equipment we'd all need. We'd all need hoses and tools and all the things you need to garden. I garden myself. It's my favorite hobby, but I do it because I love it, not because I'm under any illusions about it being some better way, where we'd also have to all spread out across the land when we should be leaving more of that land alone so that it can sequester carbon and just not have human impact on it.

Tanja Hester:
I think about a lot of folks I know here who love to home brew. And if you really love that and you're going to do it for a long time, that's great. But if you're thinking, "Oh, I buy a lot of beer and that comes with cans and bottles." Think about how much gear you actually need to do home brewing. You need all these buckets and you need metal tubes and you need a lot of stuff. And if you do what a lot of folks do, which is invest in all the gear and then give up that hobby, you've now gotten a whole bunch of stuff that's very specialized, that you can't easily use for other things, and then you're still having all the waste of the bottles and cans. Which by the way, bottles and cans, people shouldn't stress about. Just make sure they get recycled. Those are actually recycled at a high rate and are not a huge deal.

Tanja Hester:
So, that's really where I say it. It's also, I don't want anyone to feel pressure to DIY things, when you have a very busy life and you've got demands on your time. You need to work. You need to earn a living. All the things you need to do. I say, do DIY stuff if you love it, if it's fulfilling to you in some way but don't feel like you must. If that's not something that's doable for you, there are other good ways to be a wallet activist.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that theme that also runs throughout your book where you do talk about the fact that people should be realistic about what they can do. It doesn't have to be all at once. You don't need to overhaul your life immediately upon reading the book and treat it like a checklist and go through each thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most importantly, don't be judgy about other people. You make a big point about the fact that if you feel passionate about something like I don't eat meat and it's for a number of reasons, but I'm also aware of a lot of the things that you talk about in the book. But I don't tell other people not to do that. I just say, "I don't eat meat," and I leave it at that. Let them do that. If they ask you more questions, then absolutely you can share some more information, but it's important to not impose your views too strongly because it can backfire.

Tanja Hester:
It absolutely can backfire. You know, I think there is ample research to show that shaming people doesn't work. Shaming corporations, that can work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. That's a PR campaign. That's a whole different thing.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Shaming, very, very wealthy people can work in some instances. But shaming individuals really doesn't work and so there's no point in doing it.

Tanja Hester:
But the other thing and something that I really set out to do with this book is to balance both environmental concerns and human concerns. Oftentimes, those things are posited as opposites, as you can do one but not the other, and I just reject that. I think it's so important that we start thinking about both our fellow humans and the planet together and when we talk about climate change, that we're also talking about inequality and how all of that ties together. That's a big part of it.

Tanja Hester:
I think sometimes in the interest of making an environmental choice, we do things that hurt people. An example I use in the book is the popularity right now of plastic drinking straw bans that are going into place all over the country, all over the world. Those are doing a lot of harm actually to disabled communities. There's this thought of like, "Well, but you have all these other choices. You could use a paper straw." Well guess what? A lot of disabled folks say those don't work. They don't work in hot beverages. They aren't positionable.

Tanja Hester:
Okay, well what about that fancy stainless steel straw? Well, not everyone can afford that. First of all, they're expensive. And second, how are you supposed to clean that on the go and use it every time you're out and about. And so we just aren't having enough of that conversation of balancing both. And so if you're talking about shaming people who use single use plastics, or my favorite is seeing the tweet, that's like, "Hey, look at this peeled apple that's wrapped in plastic." Like, yeah. Okay. That is a lot of plastic. That's a bummer. But guess what? The people who need that are people with disabilities, where they can't use their hands properly, or they don't trust themselves to use a knife.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to go through kind of a quick hits list of food advice because this was my favorite area of the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, the question on everyone's mind, the whole organic thing and I'm going to throw in there the whole grass-fed thing, because my son Bradley, he wanted everything grass-fed for a while and it's really expensive, but is it bad if we don't buy grass-fed everything and organic everything? I know the prices are coming down for organic, but talk to us.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah, it's funny. Organic is often posited as sort of the panacea. This will fix everything and if you actually look at the science of it, and I say this as a person who loves to buy organic, so I'm talking to myself here too. The truth is a lot of organically produced food actually has a much bigger climate impact than things that are produced more conventionally.

Tanja Hester:
With grass-fed beef, for example, or grass-fed dairy, the cows have to live a lot longer because grass is much less caloric than the grain they're fed in feed lots and so the cows who live in feed lots, those are terrible conditions. I think we can all agree on that and they have a lot of waste they have to deal with. It's not a good system. We need to reform it, but those cows live less than half as long, to get to the same size as the cows that are fed grass.

Tanja Hester:
So if we are just looking at how much beef we want to produce, grass-fed actually has a much, much higher climate impact. So that's not to say-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. It's not to say the industrial side is great, but organic is not automatically a cure-all. I recommend that folks look at organic for most animal products, if possible, and certain produce, especially things that are grains, so that you're avoiding Roundup glyphosate. But I think folks will be shocked to hear that I recommend a lot of non-organic too, because of both the climate impact and the worker impact.

Tanja Hester:
There are a lot more injuries associated with organic fruits and vegetables because they have to do absolutely everything by hand. So those are important things to consider that I haven't seen be included in the conversation so far.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do we do about the whole milk options thing? Because first I was putting almond milk in my coffee. I felt really good about it and then I heard it was really bad. Now I'm doing oat milk but I also feel like rice milk. But I know from your book, rice milk is also not so good. So what do we do? What do we do, Tanja? And the price is that they're always charging me more for... I mean, do we have to pay more for the oat milk? Is it really more for the oat milk or are the coffee place is just charging us more because they can?

Tanja Hester:
With oat milk in particular, they're charging you more because they can. Oats are incredibly cheap to produce. If you were getting organic oats, which is actually really hard to find, that could be worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have no idea.

Tanja Hester:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
No idea.

Tanja Hester:
Most oats are sprayed with Roundup and people don't like hearing that, but the pesticide and herbicide levels in oat-based products are really high. In terms of dairy, non-dairy milks, I mean honestly, I think the answer I want to give folks is don't stress that much about it. Any plant-based milk is better for the planet, for people, for animal welfare, than dairy.

Tanja Hester:
So this getting ourselves tied up in knots about how many gallons go into a gallon of almond milk? Okay, yeah. Like that's true but it also is true that we're reforesting California Central Valley, when we grow almond trees that are replacing cotton, which is a much more water intensive crop.

Tanja Hester:
So everything exists on a spectrum. My point is not to try to get people twisted in knots. It's to say actually, stop twisting yourself in knots. If you're doing any non-dairy milk, you're doing great. Do organic with soy and with oat. With the rest, don't stress about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Final question before we wrap up. Give us your tips about food waste because food waste really costs people so much money, myself included. I am terrible at food inventory management. Things go bad all the time. I have the best intentions. I want to do a fancy recipe and then I'm missing one ingredient. I don't do it that night and then it just never happens and that fabulous herb that I bought goes bad. What do we do?

Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, food waste is a huge, huge problem. So some tips are, a lot of these I think folks have probably seen around, but making a meal plan before you shop, trying not to shop for a few weeks so that you can eat down what you already have. I love your example of the recipe. You know, don't buy some fad ingredient unless you have the recipe and have all the things for it and you know, you're going to make it right away.

Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself sort of face up to your food waste. Put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family or you create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. And then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eyeopening and that can be really motivating. So once you see the types of foods you're wasting most, or where the sources are, you can start to come up with a plan. Maybe it's serving smaller portions for everyone, but letting them take seconds instead of putting big portions on the plate. Once you've sort of come face-to-face with your food waste, you can make a plan to reduce it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I'm kind of sitting here processing that, getting ready to reveal that to my husband, who I'm sure will be thrilled to have all of our food waste in our refrigerator, front and center, for a week. So we're going to work on that here in my home, but in the meantime, Tanja, congratulations on the book again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people be in touch with you? I know the book is going to be available everywhere, so please pick up Wallet Activism, everyone. Where can they reach you?

Tanja Hester:
My website is ournextlife.com and I'm most active on Twitter and Instagram and that's at our_nextlife. I also recently joined TikTok, which is so embarrassing for a person over 40. That's @walletactivism.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it and you have a podcast as well, right? Now with Wallet Activism?

Tanja Hester:
Yes, that's right. It's called Wallet Activism, same as the book, and you can find it in all the podcast places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Tanja Hester:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many takeaways from our interview. I personally am bracing for a big post-pandemic closet clean-out and knowing what Tanja had to say about what really goes on when we donate clothing and other goods to charity is really making me think twice about what to do with all of that. So I'm definitely going to be checking out those, buy nothing groups, because I really have so much stuff that is perfectly good. I don't want to throw it out because it's perfectly good but if I said it to charity, well, it may not get to the right place either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends. There was a lot to digest in this episode, but do not stress. We have it all for you right on my website. You can get a full transcript of the show, along with resources and so on, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com and just click on the podcast tab.

Bobbi Rebell:
What got you thinking in this interview? For me, it was the whole plastic straw thing. It shows we really have to think broadly about these decisions and there's a lot of gray areas out there. You really have to think through what this means for different people versus what this also means for our planet. It's complicated. DM me and let me know your take and what really stood out to you. On Instagram, I am at BobbiRebell1. The number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Wallet Activism author, Tanja Hester, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, it's brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Susan McPherson, author of the new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships shares 5 specific tips to connect and intentionally leverage your network of friends and colleagues. 

Susan’s 5 Easy Tips for Daily Connection

#1 - Spend a little bit of time reflecting and thinking about what it is you want to accomplish when you emerge. Think about the communities and the people you want to surround you because you do have this opportunity now.

#2 - Maybe it's time to forget FOMO, that fear of missing out and instead create JOMO, which is a little bit different than what you may think. Instead of the joy of missing out, it's actually the joy of meeting others. As we return to a sense of normalcy, consider becoming a convener. For those of you who tend to be more introverted, this does not mean you have to gather a hundred people. You can create a convening of four friends or four colleagues and ask them to each bring one and voila! No more FOMO.

#3 - Ask questions. To truly build connection, I would highly recommend learning the art of the ask. Have five or six questions at the ready, that will help you elicit meaningful responses from those you are chatting with. So instead of just talking about yourself, start asking people questions, not about the weather, not about what they had for lunch today, but how they honestly are doing, or how have they fared during the last 12 months and what are they looking forward to, in the next 12 months?

#4- Let's step up our listening skills and believe it or not, something like 75% of the time, most of us are distracted and that's partially due to all the devices and all of just the daily mayhem, that every one of us lives through. But I carry a notebook with me now, and maybe that's just a sign of my aging feeble brain, but more importantly, it helps me remember when somebody tells me something about themselves and therefore I'm able to follow up, in a more expedient and more reliable fashion.

#5- Once you've listened, after asking the important questions, the followup is vitally important because that establishes trust. It establishes reliability and dependability, all the things that you want to be, professionally and probably personally as well. So if you truly listen and go so far as take notes, you will have all the tools you need to actually artfully follow up and be effective.

Bobbi’s Takeaways:

#1 - Create a system to track those connections. Susan talked about carrying a notebook to jot things down about people so she doesn't forget. I'm going to write that down, to come up with a system for myself, because if I had a notebook, I'd probably misplace the notebook, but I'm going to come up with a system, probably something on my phone, because even though I tend to lose my phone, I do always seem to find it.

#2 - Make it personal. So Susan talked about reaching out to a handful of people each day. I've been on the receiving end of this from Susan and it's awesome. She sends these photos from gatherings that she's had with me in it with a quick, "Thinking of you." Takes probably a moment on her time, but it totally makes my day.

Get your copy of The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Business Relationships today!

Follow Susan!

• Instagram - @susanmcp1

• Twitter- @susanmcp1

• LinkedIn- Susan McPherson

• Website- www.mcpstrategies.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com/

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Susan McPherson: This is a way of leading yourself professionally and personally, to be of support because it all will come back. It will all come back around and I can honestly say the dopamine you get, it feels really good to be helping others.

Bobbi Rebell: You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell: Hey friends, today's show is going to put a smile on your face. This week's financial grownup is my dear friend, Susan McPherson. She is back to share her pandemic project, and that is her new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships. Susan is the founder and CEO of McPherson Strategies, a communications consultancy that focuses on the intersection of brands and social impact. When not in quarantine, Susan's a prominent speaker at top conferences around the globe. She's also a contributor to the Harvard Business Review, Fast Company and Forbes, and you've probably seen or heard her or read her work in the media everywhere from NPR to CNN, to USA today, the New Yorker, New York Magazine and The Los Angeles Times and many more. She is also an angel investor, and if we're going to cut to the chase, she is huge on social media. By the way, fun fact, Susan has run six marathons.

Bobbi Rebell: Her book, for us, could not come at a more perfect time. As I read the book, I got so many ideas of things that I can do to specifically enjoy spending time with people and frankly, being a better friend and being a more effective person in my business and professional relationships and just enjoying it all more. And a reminder, you're going to be tempted to take notes but please focus your attention on the gems that Susan shares. We've got a summary for you right on my website, BobbiRebell.com. Just go to the Financial Grownup Podcast dropdown menu and when you click on Susan's episode, you'll see that summary, along with all the links you need and below that, a full transcript. Here is Susan McPherson. Susan McPherson, welcome back. You are a financial grownup. We're so happy to have you here again.

Susan McPherson: Bobbi, I couldn't pick a better place to be.

Bobbi Rebell: We are going to be talking about your new book, The Lost Art of Connecting: The Gather, Ask, Do Method for Building Meaningful Relationships and what better time than now when we are just on the cusp, I hope, oh please, I hope of getting out of this debacle that has been quarantine, COVID-19 and the last year, right?

Susan McPherson: Absolutely. But I have to say, if anything, over this last year, one thing we all have realized is how much we miss human connection.

Bobbi Rebell: So true, and you are the ultimate connector. I mean, literally so funny because at the beginning of this book, you talk about the fact that some people have called you a human CRM app and that's so true.

Susan McPherson: It is something I have loved all my life so what better than to excel at something that you love doing?

Bobbi Rebell: Well as someone that has personally benefited from your generosity and your graciousness and your giving nature, I can just, first of all, attest to the truth of that. You did bring with you five practical tips for daily connection with colleagues, neighbors, and others in your community and network. That's the formal name, but you know what? Really we're talking about how to reset after everything that's been going on. What's your first tip?

Susan McPherson: Spend a little bit of time now, reflecting and thinking about what it is you want to accomplish when you emerge. Do some old fashion navel-gazing and think about the communities and the people you want to surround you because you do have this opportunity now.

Bobbi Rebell: Very well said, what is your second tip?

Susan McPherson : Maybe it's time to forget FOMO, that fear of missing out and instead create JOMO, which is a little bit different than what you may think. Instead of the joy of missing out, it's actually the joy of meeting others. As we return to a sense of normalcy, consider becoming a convener, and I will say for those of you who tend to be more introverted, this does not mean you have to gather a hundred people. You can create a convening of four friends or four colleagues and ask them to each bring one and voila, no more FOMO.

Bobbi Rebell: I love that, and it reminds me, and we're going to digress just for a moment of part of your book, where you talk about creating rituals, something our mutual friend, Erica Keswin talks about in her latest book, but that could be part of getting that done, of JOMO.

Susan McPherson: Absolutely. It doesn't all have to be sitting around, having cocktails. You can gather groups for taking a walk and talk. You can gather groups for a cooking class. Again, we've been doing this in some shape, way or form online, but now you have an opportunity to actually potentially maybe by the summer in small groups, doing it in real life.

Bobbi Rebell: Oh, we all can't wait for that. What is your third tip?

Susan McPherson: Well, and this is a big component of the book and it's ask. Ask questions. To truly build connection, first, I would highly recommend learning the art of the ask. Have five or six questions at the ready, that will help you elicit meaningful responses from those you are chatting with. So instead of just talking about yourself, start asking people questions, not about the weather, not about what they had for lunch today, but how they honestly are doing, or how have they fared during the last 12 months and what are they looking forward to, in the next 12 months?

Bobbi Rebell: And one underlying theme in your book, by the way, is the importance of curiosity.

Susan McPherson: Yes. And to me, it's a drug and a positive drug because it is curiosity that leads you to the path to understand and appreciate people for where they are and see people, and most importantly, that curiosity helps you then to be able to follow up and be supportive.

Bobbi Rebell: Which is another big theme in your book, and that brings us to your fourth tip.

Susan McPherson: Yes, well, it's important of course, to ask, but we won't be successful at asking if we don't know how to listen. So number four is, let's step up our listening skills and believe it or not, something like 75% of the time, most of us are distracted and that's partially due to all the devices and all of just the daily mayhem, that every one of us lives through. But I carry a notebook with me now, and maybe that's just a sign of my aging feeble brain, but more importantly, it helps me remember when somebody tells me something about themselves and therefore I'm able to follow up, in a more expedient and probably more reliable fashion.

Bobbi Rebell: That really is everything, and so let's talk about following up and let's get to your fifth tip.

Susan McPherson: My fifth tip is essentially that. Once you've listened, after asking the important questions, the followup is vitally important because that establishes trust. It establishes reliability and dependability, all the things that you want to be, professionally and probably personally as well. So if you truly listen and go so far as take notes, you will have all the tools you need to actually artfully follow up and be effective. I want to just caveat all of this, Bobbi, this isn't about putting everyone else before you, but this is a way of leading yourself, professionally and personally, to be of support, because it all will come back. It will all come back around and I can honestly say the dopamine you get, and you know this Bobbi, you support so many women and men and probably children. That notion, it feels really good to be helping others.

Bobbi Rebell: That reminds me of some advice that your father gave you growing up that really still resonates with you and really hit home for me.

Susan McPherson: Yes, and that was to always ask first how you can be of help, before stepping up and doing.

Bobbi Rebell: Yeah and what would be an example of how someone could put that into, I mean, what I love about this book also is it's so specific and practical, give us some examples first of that, of how someone would put that into their life. Then I'm going to try to squeeze it in one more question before we wrap.

Susan McPherson: Just a week ago, a dear friend of mine introduced me to a lovely woman who is trying to expand her portfolio. She and I had a 30 minute conversation, literally an hour after a conversation, I was able to introduce her to the executive director of an organization whose board I serve on, and literally the next day, she had an opportunity to actually lead a workshop for that organization. So that all happened within 24 hours. I didn't ask for anything in return. Having the conversation with this wonderful woman named Natalie, after that conversation, I was so impressed that I introduced her, again to the executive director of a board whose organization I serve on and was able to facilitate an opportunity for her. That was a perfect example of how it wasn't a huge lift on my part yet it enormously helped Natalie and it also helped the organization for which the board I serve on.

Bobbi Rebell: Absolutely, and it also goes to the fact that we get so busy in our lives, that we sometimes go through phases where we feel like we have to say no to even have time to breathe, and then you have to balance that, because you also have some good advice, you say, "Always take the meeting." Tell us more about that and why that is so important.

Susan McPherson: Well, I have the proof in the pudding for that, and that is, my company is now eight years old and seven years in, I realized that 98% of our business had been inbound, which is pretty remarkable for a consulting firm. I realized that in my twenties and thirties, all those meetings I took, that were yes, challenging at times because of course I was busy, those people came back 20, 30 years later, and it wasn't like when I was 25, I was saying, "Oh, I'm going to be calling on you in 2020 when I have a company, to see if you'll buy services from me." It was not even a glimmer in my brain. So every single person we meet is a conduit to something else, to someone else, to something new, to learn something about ourselves, and if we don't open those doors and we don't take those meetings, we are missing tremendous opportunities. I fervently believe that, and I live that every day.

Bobbi Rebell: It's so true. So many major things in my life have happened by almost chance meetings, little meetings that you didn't think were going to be meaningful, and then they do end up having a huge impact sometimes right then, as in the case you described earlier and sometimes not for years later, and that's also important. They're true friendships. The final thing I wanted to just touch on is you talk about expressing gratitude and that's something that sometimes gets lost in the hustle and bustle. I've certainly been guilty of not always properly thanking everyone that's done amazing things for me. It's tough. We get so busy and so distracted and are just keeping up with the world, certainly as we get back into, hopefully some sense of normalcy now. Talk to me more about expressing gratitude and specific ways that people can do that.

Susan McPherson : Don't overthink it. Sometimes just a quick phone call, a quick text, a DM, shining a light on socials, showcasing someone else. Those are all very immediate, quick and simple and easy. You don't have to go so far as sending flowers or sending cookies, although that's certainly a wonderful thing to do, but whatever is going to be the most expedient way, sometimes, is the best way, because that's the way it'll get done. But I think it's important to plan one bit of gratitude, every single day, and that includes gratitude for yourself.

Bobbi Rebell: And as you mentioned earlier, it's important to give, but it's also important to be practical and also look out for yourself.

Susan McPherson: Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell: Susan, this has been so wonderful. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you. We know your book is going to be on sale, literally everywhere. So I hope people will pick it up and continue to get all of these incredible gems. It is very readable. I will tell you that.

Susan McPherson: Aww.

Bobbi Rebell: It's precise, specific, practical in all the best ways, and yet it has the warmth of your personality in it. Where can people follow up with you, once they get the book?

Susan McPherson: First of all, I am glowing. Thank you so much. Hearing that from you means the world to me, Bobbi. I have so much respect for you personally, professionally. Thank you. You can find me at my company's website, McPStrategies.com. I'm on all the social platforms with the name @SusanMcP1 and of course the book can be purchased at your local bookstores or any of the major online booksellers, and I am grateful for you to give it a shot.

Bobbi Rebell: Thank you so much.

Susan McPherson: Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell: All right, guys, that was an awesome interview. Here's my take. Financial grownup tip number one, create a system to track those connections. Susan talked about carrying a notebook to jot things down about people so she doesn't forget. I'm going to write that down, to come up with a system for myself, because if I had a notebook, I'd probably misplace the notebook, but I'm going to come up with a system, probably something on my phone, because even though I tend to lose my phone, I do always seem to find it, but you get the idea and by the way, feel free to send me your suggestions for how I can implement Susan's methodology for this, but we're going to go with the phone for now.

Bobbi Rebell: Financial grownup tip number two, make it personal. So Susan talked about reaching out to a handful of people each day. I've been on the receiving end of this from Susan and it's awesome. She sends these photos from gatherings that she's had with me in it with a quick, "Thinking of you." Takes probably a moment on her time, but it totally makes my day. So I want to ask you guys, what little things make big impacts on your days? DM me on Instagram, @BobbiRebell1, I would love more ideas. And while you're at it, help me give away some incredible books.

Stay in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell. You can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com, and if you enjoy the show, please tell a friend and maybe leave a review on Apple podcasts. It only takes a couple minutes. Join us next time for more stories to help you live your best grown-up life.

Don’t wait until January!! Friend of the podcast Allison Task is back with her latest project: A Year of Self Care Journal. Find out how you can create a healthy financial ecosystem, get tips for active listening and the difference between responding and reacting and so much more.  

Money Tips

• Create a healthy financial ecosystem

• Get tips for active listening

• Learn the difference between responding and reacting

• How to make the most of the Self Care Journal
  

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Follow Allison!

• Instagram - @allisontaskcoach

• Facebook - @allison-task

• Twitter - @allisontask

• LinkedIn - @allison-task

• Website - allisontask.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Allison Task:
Dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where are money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers. That's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard. But together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to an all new episode of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast. You guys are in for a treat today because it is all about you putting yourself first as you should and not waiting until the new year. I'm really excited to bring back career coach, mentor, life coach, all around wise person. An author, Allison Task, she's a guest so many of you wrote me about that you loved, as did I. Because Allison just gets it. And she isn't afraid to dish out some tough love to get all of us to a better place.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get a lot of books sent to me asking if the author could be featured on the show and I really try to limit the number of sort of journals as we head into the new year. Some of them are really good, but a lot of them are kind same old, same old. This is very different. It is, I don't know what to say, just substantial. There's a lot more to it and a lot of thought that went into it. And most of all, it's definitely not something you want to wait on. You want to get this now and not just wait to the new year. So in this case, I actually reached out to Allison Task and I bought myself this journal because I wanted it now, I didn't want to wait. And it really is a next level version of something that so many other people are doing, but just not as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you listen to the interview with Allison, you're going to start to understand why it is simply called a year of self-care journal. So in our interview, Allison and I talk about some very real world situations, including ... and this gets really personal, I was kind of a little surprised she went there. But Allison talks about how she talks about money with her husband and even revealed some of the conversations that they had when things got really dicey during the pandemic. She gets really candid about how her life changed, some big decisions that had to be made. And how this project, the journal, came to be. We talk about active listening, communicating boundaries, and the difference between reacting and responding. Get ready, guys, this is good. Here is Alison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alison Task, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so glad to have you back. You were here a little while ago to talk about personal revolution. It's like our important to sort of like evolution, everyone should check out that book and that at episode. Which of course, we have to be like so podcast cliche and be like, "Go to our show notes for the link to that." But I have you back because you have a new book. It is called A Year of Self-care, it's a journal. Allison, first of all, welcome, welcome, welcome. And tell us about the new book.

Allison Task:
So, the new book is something that I created so that people could have really tangible exercises. You know me, right? I'm a coach, I'm a life coach, career coach. And what happens out of my room is more important than what happens in the room. While in conversation with people, we have work to do. And I wanted to create something so that people could go home at night and do the work. That's where the rubber hits the road, you be with your coach, but it's in your weekly runs that you really get stuff done. That was the idea for this book. And it's a journal. So every week has either a quote or some sort of topic to keep you thinking and then an action. And it's designed to happen anytime over the course of a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. And the other thing that I really like about it is they're really substantial, and they're thoughtful, and there's themes that come back throughout the book, which I like. Because you want reinforcement, you don't want just one time to be told, "Oh, think about your sleep and how that impacts the rest of your life." They're recurring themes and I really like that positive reinforcement. Especially when we are home more than we used to be, even as the world opens up. And this is a time when people really want to be thinking about how they're living their life.

Allison Task:
Right. So it's very intentional. And when you talk about the themes, there are five specific areas that I focus on. I focus on self care in terms of the physical, the mental, the spiritual, and the emotional. Like those three always get put together. So physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, and social.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I cheated a little and looked ahead and went through the book to pull out some of my favorite week challenges, prompts, whatever you want to call it. So I want to ask you to elaborate on a few of them, just to give people a little bit of a teaser of the book, sneak, peek, whatever you want to call it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one of my favorites is week seven, which is about making an honest assessment of your financial situation including creating a healthy financial ecosystem. And that's something, by the way, sneak peek, also, Allison you're featured in my upcoming book that's coming out in March, Launching Financial Grownups. You had amazing advice for parents. We talked about the financial ecosystem a bit there, too.

Allison Task:
Absolutely. I can't tell you how many clients I meet at all levels of economics who I'll say, "What is your budget? Do you know what you're spending a month or a year?" They'll say, "No." And dirty little secret, I had the conversation with my husband this summer. I'm like, "Can we just do it? Can we just do our budget?" And I kind of rely on him because he's a financial professional. And I said, "It's time." I opened up my spreadsheet. In about 20 minutes, I had where our money's coming, where our money's going. And it's going out a lot more than coming in. So we had a real conversation with real numbers, that's important. I didn't do it myself and I did it this summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's hard to make time to do that even when we have a lot of time. So that's one of the reasons it's nice to have a physical book with actual prompts because you can go to the other financial stakeholders in your family, which may be a husband, a wife, whomever it is. But the people that your finances overlap with and say, "Look, I'm working on this. I need your help. Can you participate in this exercise this week?" So I think that's a great thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk about practicing active listening. It's so important in life, but also it's important for career and business success. We've learned that a little bit with Zoom because we can't talk over each other as much as we might in person. But tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, active listening, to me, it's a gift you're giving to the person you're speaking with. I'm speaking right now, you're giving me the space, you're not stepping on me. And now the next part is ... and we don't have to do this in the interview. But it's, "Here's what I heard you say, Allison." It's actively giving space, then even a little extra space when the person finishes. And then letting you know they were heard.

Allison Task:
If there's community, the level of connectivity that happens when a person feels heard is very powerful. It's relief, you can feel it in your body and you feel it because there's me and you and the space between us. And the space between us grows wider and more powerful, we connect more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one of my favorites here was communicating boundaries. This is really important as we start going back into the world. You mentioned your PTA president, I'm actually the class mom, whatever you want to call it, for my son's grade. And we get pulled into ... you're silently applauding me, but I'm sort of mixed feelings about it. Because we sometimes say yes, and when you say yes to something, you are kind of saying no to something else. So it's really important to be selective and to create those boundaries. Tell us more about that.

Allison Task:
Well, yes. Congratulations and thank you for stepping up in this leadership role. Yeah, fuzzy boundaries like this, emotional boundaries with your kids, showing up, volunteering is some of the fuzziest of boundaries. And so where do we want to go? Checking in with ourself. When you feel you're getting pulled, I sense resistance. And it's very much okay. And trust me as a PTA president, I'm always having people tell me, no. But when people tell me, yes, I go, "Great. How do you want to build this? How will this work for you?" I do not want a single volunteer that isn't thrilled to be there because then the work doesn't get done in a passive aggressive way and I'm not interested in wasting time with that. So if you want to stand up, how do you want to stand up? So maybe defining for yourself how you want to be a class parent. I will spend no more than two hours a week on this. Some weeks I'll go to 10 for big weeks, but that's it. And you can say no and say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that a lot. The other thing I really like is further on ... actually this is the final one, so I'm giving everyone ... it's not a spoiler, but anyway. It's consider the range of responses, the difference between responding and reacting. And I was like, "Hmm." I read that, I'm like, "I really have to process that because they are very different." And very often we're reactive when really we should be a little bit more thoughtful and think about our response.

Allison Task:
Right. And active listening helps you with that. Responding is taking a beat, thinking, giving space. And reacting is quicker. I was visiting relatives in Rochester the summer and she said, "The difference between the downstate city folk and us is, we just take that space." And you gave that some space, which I appreciate. Because you were considering it. Respond. React is, "No, no, no, that's not what I said. No, no, I meant something totally different." It's high pitched, it's frenetic, it's pitchy, it's up here. It's not deeper, stronger.

Bobbi Rebell:
The final thing that I want to ask you to tell us more about of these 52 amazing prompts. You talk about ... this is really towards the beginning, if your ship doesn't come in ... this is a quote because you have the quotes and then you have the actions. If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to meet it. I want to hear more about that. Because many of us are still home, we're starting to go back to offices, back to socializing, back to in-person activities and networking. And this is a time when we have to remember that if we just sit back, sometimes the ship doesn't come into us. Sometimes we do have to force ourselves and I find myself sometimes really not wanting to go to things. Even though I do miss friends, I do miss going out. We kind of got used to just not.

Allison Task:
Well dirty little secret, boy was I happy to have all those obligations off of my docket. And I sense you're feeling that way, too. And so ... ah, you're giving me the side eye. So that's a boundary thing. Here's what I learned about myself during the pandemic, I tend to overbook and I really value my downtime and I don't have that much of it. You're a person who puts yourself out there in public for a career, maybe you really treasure that reconnection, rejuvenation, repair time. You're out so much, you got to go in, too. I think that's important. I'm not sure that I answered your exact question because I flipped it [crosstalk 00:11:55]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I guess the question is, though, at a certain point, you also have to say, "Okay, but I do have a business, I do have to earn income." And it's not going to happen. If I just wait for the ship to come to me, maybe I have to go out and meet the ship. I mean, that really hit home with me that we do have to motivate. Yes, we've learned how much we need that rejuvenation, how much we do need that downtime. But we also have to remember, there's a reason why people go to in person business trips, for example. There's a reason why we would meet somebody in person to have coffee or lunch or whatever it may be. Because you do connect with of people sometimes on a very different level when you do have those in-person experiences. And that's something that we're all figuring out right now, what is the balance? Because of what you just said.

Allison Task:
That's a really powerful part of self-care. Self-care isn't just the repair and the snuggling in the cashmere. Self-care is also taking action, growing. I like the concept that you're either comfortable or you're growing. And if you're waiting on the couch or by the edge of the sea, maybe you're comfortable and maybe you need a little goose. Maybe you need to goose your system. Maybe your business is running perfectly fine, but then have that moment with yourself where you sit down and have a little offsite with you. Maybe it's down insight in your home. And you're like, "Is this where I want my business to go? Where do I want my business in ten years, five years? Then what are my goals for this year?" So that's assert yourself. One of the WHO things, The World Health Organization, I believe was agency. It's empowerment, autonomy, self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
Self efficacy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Allison Task:
There you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you gave me the perfect lead in and because you also have a whole business. Books are just a tiny part of all that you do. So tell us about that and how people can be in touch with you and learn more about everything besides your books. We know your books are everywhere.

Allison Task:
Yeah, they are live and large. So I have a personal coaching business, I work privately with individuals to coach them. I have been hired by organizations, but I prefer to keep my work really intimate, working directly with the person who hires me. My name is Alison Task. My website is AllisonTask. And currently available working with private clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And it's great that you can be available for people, but also if that's not an option for somebody, they can definitely get your books and other resources. So thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison was so great, as always, so perceptive. Just really nails it and calls us out for the things that we know we should be doing, but we don't always actively pay attention to. I particularly loved what she had to say about volunteering, which is something I have mixed feelings about. Also how to say no, but also say yes. And I was struck by what she had to say about the fact that we tend to just react to things when we really should take a beat and think about our response. Take some space, give other people a little space.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would love to hear from all of you about what resonated with you. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. And please take a moment to share this episode on social media or just directly share with your friends that might enjoy it. I really need your help to grow this podcast, it is truly a labor of love. And for that reason, each and every one of you matters to me. So I am sincere when I ask you to be in touch. I want to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't wait until the new year to pick up Allison's book, A Year of Self-care Journal. Allison Task always brings it and we are so thankful for her coming back to the podcast to help us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a Production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, Guest Coordination, Content Creation, Social Media Support and Show Notes By Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts reading. Each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

The Squid Game is an intense look at the desperate measures people will take to get out of debt. While the story is fiction, the lessons we can take away about class divide, the reckless choices made when in debt, and the way money can reveal someone’s true character, are hitting home with so many of us.  ** spoiler alert**

Money Lessons for Grownups from the Netflix series "The Squid Game”

• You can’t judge people‘s wealth and success based on appearances.

• Money makes us do illogical, and often illegal things.

• Manage the pressure otherwise it will consume you.

• Betrayal comes from the people you trust the most.

• Strength is not always stronger.

• Wealthy people can abuse the vulnerability of people who have financial problems.

---

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, Ts and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts.

Bobbi Rebell:
They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. You know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups, welcome back. We are going to do something very special this week, starting with having back my number one, most favorite ever co-host, Mr. Neil Kaufman, aka, my husband. Welcome back, Neil.

Neil Kaufman:
Back on popular demand and for those of you that sent me fan letters, thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Neil is poised to become a regular co-host on this show. And speaking of regular, a lot of the regular listeners do know that you were featured in our summer watch series where we talked about money related streaming shows and the lessons from them. Well, as of now, we're not going to do a whole series for fall, but there is a show that everyone, including Mr. Neil Kaufman, I should say, everyone is talking about that has some pretty intense money lessons.

Bobbi Rebell:
That show is the Netflix series, the Squid Game. Neil and I have been watching the series. We've already had some pretty intense discussions about it and so of course, I recruited him to come back to the podcast. So Neil, welcome.

Neil Kaufman:
Thank you. We're here to talk about Squid Game, which for those of you that have been I guess living under a rock and don't know about the Squid Game or haven't seen it yet, because it's the most popular show in lots of countries, it's a nine episode series about the lives of 456 people, all who need money.

Neil Kaufman:
They need it for lots of different reasons. They come from all walks of life. Some of drowning in debt, desperate for not being able to pay off their debt. Some people are thugs. Some people are white collar. Some people are just unlucky. But what they all have in common is they need money and they are willing to participate, willingly, they want to participate in this game to try and survive.

Neil Kaufman:
And they've got to play six Korean children's games where if you're the winner you're going to get a large sum of money, $46 billion Won, which is $38 million U.S. dollars. It's a high stakes game.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lot of money. Okay. So I want to make sure everybody knows that we have watched all of the episodes and we are not going to be able to remember what to say and what not to say so there will be spoilers. So this is your cue, if we've interested you in watching the Squid Game and you haven't watched it yet, pause. Go watch it. It's nine episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for most people they could binge it in a day or two. For me, because I fall asleep during everything, it took a little bit longer but Neil was patient. Go watch the Squid Game and then come back right here. This is where the spoilers are going to start. Starting with the fact that the main character is presented as sympathetic but a lot of eye rolls.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, he's massively in debt. He gambles away money that his mom ... By the way, he's 40 something and living with his mom, speaking of not being a financial grownup, of course. He's asking her for more money to buy his daughter a birthday present. He gambles it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kinds of things happen but just the characters, it's not like they're all that sympathetic. A lot of them are basically making big money mistakes on their own and trying to find get rich quick schemes to begin with. Right, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
He's a likable guy but he's a schlump. It's just the guy, he does everything wrong. He's divorced. He's a gambler. I mean, he's got all the classic tell-tale signs of just being a not responsible person, both financially and emotionally. I mean, he doesn't even maintain a decent relationship with his daughter. I mean, or his mother.

Neil Kaufman:
Yes, he lives with his mom and we've heard that story all too often but he betrayed his mom. He canceled the insurance, her health insurance, which no shock there, an aging woman, she needed the insurance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's another big spoiler. It comes up later. The other spoiler is that he wins money gambling. Okay, so now in theory you would think he would use this money that's he's gambled ... he wins on this horse betting, which is another thing that comes up. They're betting on horses. Is it different to bet on horses than humans? Think about that, everyone that's seen the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, he wins a huge amount of money and instead of using it to pay off his debt he starts gambling away with it again. He doesn't pay off the debt that owes. He gives a big tip to the person in the window and he wants to go shopping and buy extravagant things for his daughter that he's promising her all this stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even when he gets her a present he does it through a gambling game, a children's game where he picks a present, which later on ... We don't have to spoil this but let's just say it's not a child appropriate gift that he ends up getting her and it's really just the ultimate symbol that this guy just can do no right and he's his own worst enemy really.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Neil, we've set up the premise, we've got this guy, fast forward a little bit. He runs into someone who's effectively a salesman who convinces him to go into this game and he meets a van, gets gassed so he doesn't know where he's going. And he ends up in a dorm with 455 other people who are competing in this contest and basically they say that anyone that is not eliminated at the end of six children's games will win a huge prize of money. As you mentioned, the equivalent of $38 million. But there's more to it.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah. So they're playing these games but they don't realize it until they get into the first game, what it's really all about. So the idea is some people win the game, some people lose the game. If you lose, by the rules that are put in place, you are effectively eliminated from the game. And elimination means death.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And note, for the very first game they don't know that. They just know you're eliminated and they assume, I think understandably, that they would just go home. It becomes clear very quickly and it's a very gory scene that being eliminated is death.

Bobbi Rebell:
So after that, through a little TMI, we won't get into it. The players do choose to go home. They end the game and they play one game and by going home they have forfeited the opportunity to win the money and they go back to their dreary lives. And we talked about the main character but many of the other characters have very unfortunate situations with money.

Bobbi Rebell:
They're all desperate for money, to either save face. There's an immigrant theme here, to get their relatives out of North Korea, into Korea, to feed their families. To pay off gambling debts. All kinds of different reasons why people need the money. As Neil mentioned, white collar crime and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
They go back to their lives. What's shocking to me is that of the people that go back to their lives and have the opportunity to not die in pursuit of this money, 87% of them choose voluntarily to participate in a life or death game where it's pretty logical that most of the people are not going home with the millions of dollars.

Neil Kaufman:
I think it really shows the desperation. So they went into the game originally knowing or not really knowing that much about it but after they realize that it was a fight to the death and they would actually potentially sacrifice their life and they go back home.

Neil Kaufman:
They willingly reenter it a second time, knowing what the consequences of their actions are. It may cost them everything but they're so desperate they'll still go ahead and play the game. 87% of them come back, which is really ... it just ... it boggles the mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is shocking and it also is shocking how the characters evolve through this process because they're in this bubble and they're not in contact with the real world any more. They're just in this world where they're surrounded by their ... in some cases they try to form teams and this and that but who's on your team can be very confusing. And it's confusing to know who to trust. And that's something that also goes to the theme of money, right, Neil?

Neil Kaufman:
It's really interesting. I'll tell you, choosing who's on your team, who's not on your team, I mean, I thought there was a part of the show where they were choosing teams for tug-of-war and nobody, nobody wanted to choose either the women or the old man to be on their team.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but spoiler, we didn't know it was tug-of-war when they were choosing. They did not know what the game was. There was a presumption that strength mattered.

Neil Kaufman:
There was. There was a presumption.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is also a real world perception very often that the strong men were the most desirable teammates. That was the perception, which is often the perception in real life too.

Neil Kaufman:
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And shock, maybe not shock, the team with the three women and the one old man, won the tug-of-war game against the men's ... the all men's team. Not so much for any other reason than it was the wisdom of the old man. He had life experience. He had some knowledge that he brought to the table.

Neil Kaufman:
And there was also the women in terms of how they all worked together as one cohesive team. So it was the mind that won over the power of many on the other side. It was a David and Goliath story and I love that but the point is, you've got to think broadly, have a different perspective. It's not always the obvious answer that wins.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that's also interesting is that there might be a perception that everyone in this dorm, everyone playing this game was poor, maybe because they were born that way or just things beyond their control. But one of the characters that you found most interesting was character 218.

Bobbi Rebell:
He is someone that was the pride and joy of his neighborhood. We see scenes of his mother bragging about how successful he is. The main character knew him as a child and he was the big success of the neighborhood. He was working in finance but in fact, he had lost his investor's money and he still was in the outside world portraying this veneer of huge success. Nobody knew that he had had this huge financial ruin.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's something that really resonated because very often people appear to have so much money and so much success in life but underneath there's nothing and sometimes there's less than nothing. And it's not always clear but there's a lot of reason to believe that this very wealthy appearing guy had maybe committed some crimes and really betrayed his investors. He was a bad guy.

Neil Kaufman:
I hate that guy. I mean, I got to tell you, even the way it wrapped up with him in the end and I'll get to that in a second. But I think it speaks to, I mean this guy had a pedigree education. He had the pedigree job. I think the lesson in that is don't judge people's wealth or success based on appearance only.

Neil Kaufman:
I guess it almost goes to what we're talking about these days around mental health issues. People that you think are okay, maybe they're not okay. Maybe they're not doing great. It's like that Instagram moment. It looks great from the outside in but the inside out is just terrible.

Neil Kaufman:
I think the life lesson here is the person who said that it's better to look good than to feel good, that person is wrong. The person that said clothes makes the man. That guy is also wrong. It's mental health. It's inner beauty. It's health. It's relationships that matter, not what your neighbors think, not what the valet who parks your car thinks or the stranger who sees on the street wearing whatever you're wearing.

Neil Kaufman:
You need to define a level of success by, I guess I want to say pay it forward. By the good words and things that you do and the impact that you make on others. It's those things that matter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. This show also makes some big picture statements about the growing gap between the uber wealthy and the poorer people in society and the things that the wealthy do. About two-thirds through the show, the series, we learn that this is a game that wealthy people are staging for their own amusement and it's compared by many people to things like Battle Royale and the Hunger Games.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have a lot to say about this. I mean, they come in, it's wealthy people really abusing the lower classes here who have financial problems instead of helping them. It's very cynical.

Neil Kaufman:
It's interesting. So wealthy people can abuse the vulnerable who have financial problems. No shocker there. I guess it's the theme for the decade. People hurting people who are already hurting, instead of lifting those people up in reality as opposed to the appearance of reality.

Neil Kaufman:
In the end what I liked was I think the last lesson of the show was that humanity wins. It's best to be your best. It's the best lesson so far in the show, which is sometimes people in power, people who seem to be doing good are not always doing good.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also interesting though, it makes a little ... well, a big statement. The main character early in the show is betting on horses. Later in the show the wealthy VIPs are betting on the contestants in this game. Is it saying maybe that are the wealthy and the poor doing the same human behavior? Is it just our human instinct to do this kind of cruel game?

Bobbi Rebell:
Obviously, the horses, I sure hope are alive afterwards, unlike the people but they're setting them up similar because the VIPs are very much gambling on the humans in this game. They are making bets and they're enjoying it and it seems like there's some parallels that the filmmaker or the series maker is trying to make there.

Neil Kaufman:
They're talking about objectification of both men, of women. They're talking about the abuse of power. I mean, it's a real statement that they're making here in terms of who's good, who's bad and sometimes who's good and who's bad is just a matter of perception.

Neil Kaufman:
So to your point, people betting on humans versus people betting on horses, is there a differentiation between them? I don't know but there's so many lessons in this story. I don't even know where ... there's so much. I read so much online about it and what I thought was interesting is how characters changed in the story too.

Neil Kaufman:
Like 67, I forget what her name is. I'm just going to refer to the characters by their numbers. It's easier. But 67, she started off as a hard character. She became a soft character in the end. It gives me pause to think about how people fall into two categories sometimes.

Neil Kaufman:
When people are put to pressure some people are like bits of carbon. You know what I mean by that? You put enough pressure on somebody and some people, like a bit of carbon, you put enough pressure on them and they turn into a diamond. They really shine like 67. She was playing marbles and her opponent gave up her life for her, which I thought was a selfless act.

Neil Kaufman:
It was amazing. She literally sacrificed her and not only was that an amazing act of selflessness but it rubbed off on 67. That's what I'm saying with that whole pay it forward thing. She became a better person for it and she did pay it forward, by the way, because in the middle of the night when she was hurting and there was an opportunity for 456 to kill 218 in his sleep, she paid it forward and she course corrected 456.

Neil Kaufman:
She brought him back on the tracks. She gave him ethics, gave him values again, which I thought was amazing as opposed to the character 218. So my whole other viewpoint is some people are like bits of carbon that you can turn into diamonds and some people fracture and crack under pressure.

Neil Kaufman:
This guy, 218, I was really disappointed in this guy. He manipulated Ali, number 199, played upon his naivete, tricking him into losing his life. He also betrayed all of the players in the beginning when he basically he knew the game, the honeycomb game, and he wouldn't share his knowledge with anybody else. He just looked out for himself only and I get it.

Neil Kaufman:
It's a game to the death but it was to the point where this person fractured so much from the pressure that not only did he betray all of his friends and then betray Ali and then he betrayed everybody at some point in the games. And he even slit 67's neck in the sleep. She was already dying and he killed her. What's the point in that?

Neil Kaufman:
In the end, his self-sacrifice, I got to tell you, it left me hollow inside. Hollow gesture from a dying man and he didn't even do it to give to 456 to win. He did it to give because he wanted the money for his own purpose, which was to share it with his family. So I get it but I'm telling you, it's a whole microscope of life on the two different types of people there, those that are good and those that are evil.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think the lasting image, because we need to wrap up in a minute. The lasting image for me is the final character, which is throughout the show, the series, they have this giant piggy bank hanging above the dorm that every time someone else dies the remaining players see more money coming in to this giant glass piggy bank above them.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's like they're being driven by this character of this piggy bank that they can never stop thinking about it and how that will solve their problems, make their life better but in the end, as we know, it doesn't. It really doesn't and that's, I guess, the final spoiler, really. That the money doesn't change anything for the winner.

Neil Kaufman:
I got to tell you, there was one theme in there that really resonated with me on a personal level because I have seen this person in every company I've ever worked with. Betrayal doesn't come from people more often than it comes from people that you trust most. Sometimes your friends are really frenemies. I love that word, frenemy because you got to find out who your frenemies are sometimes.

Neil Kaufman:
Fake friends like Deok-su, number 101 and Han Mi, number 212. They were friends. They were friends but when 101 left 212 scorned by not picking her for ... we talked about the tug-of-war, didn't pick her. He didn't realize that 212 would ultimately be the death of him. So he burned bridges with her and she wound up throwing him off the bridge, which is kind of funny. It took him to his death.

Neil Kaufman:
So my lesson out of that was the kindness you show to others will always find a way of coming back to you or maybe karma is going to sting you for being ruthless in the end and that's what happened to 101.

Bobbi Rebell:
So on point, Neil. You're brilliant, what can I say. All right. Final thoughts.

Neil Kaufman:
I'm thinking that there's going to be a second season, the way they left it at the end there. He didn't get on the plane, 456 did not get on the plane to visit his daughter. He let me down again. He turned around and I think it's a hat tip to a potential season two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think so too. I mean, the rumor is and we're just laying down all these spoilers here but the rumor is that a season two might focus more on the VIPs and the police and the people behind the game and what's going on behind the scenes because they show us a little bit but I definitely want to know more about how this came about and what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got the brother, the police officer and that whole thing. So I would love to hear more about that and I'd love to see more about what ... I'm going to research more about what's been going on in terms of class divide in South Korea. I think that's really interesting and something we can talk about in our own country as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So final, final words, Neil.

Neil Kaufman:
Tune into the podcast. Listen on Spotify. Tell us what you liked, what you didn't like. I'd love to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We love that. All right. And everyone, you can follow me and support the show on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell. Let us know what you thought about it. Let us know if you want to hear more from Neil and more of our money related content reviews. I don't know what we want to call it, a synopsis, whatever. But be in touch and thank you for being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.

Neil Kaufman:
(Singing)

Avoiding burnout is one thing- but what happens when it is happening and you need to find an escape? Career and Life Strategist Elizabeth Koraca shares 3 tips to managing burnout when it is actually happening.

3 Money Tips To Manage Burnout

• If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stop and ask yourself what is causing it. Write down what are your biggest pain points.

• Look at what’s on your plate. Is it overflowing? Chances are if you're feeling overwhelmed you've got too much on your plate.

• Listen to your body, mind, and emotions. Setting goals, taking action, and scheduling them in a calendar will help you combat overwhelm.

---

Follow Elizabeth!

• Instagram - @elizabethkoraca

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• Twitter - @elizabethkoraca

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• YouTube

• Website - https://www.elizabethkoraca.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much, or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think, what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is, feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. I hope everyone is having a great fall and getting into some kind of a good routine because that is one of the many ways to avoid what we're going to talk about today, which is burnout. And there's a lot talk, by the way, about how to avoid burnout and so many great tips that are already out there. But here's the thing. What do you do if you were already in the burnout phase and you don't know how to even get out of it? This has been happening to me. So as some of you know, this summer, I sort of blocked everything out to finish up my next book, which will be out next spring. All good. People were very understanding. I told everyone get in touch. Early fall, I'm going to have tons of time. In fact, I don't even know what I'm going to do with myself. I'm going to have so much time and I can't wait to hang out with you and to do these work related things, and it's going to be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you can guess what happened. The minute I handed in that book, everything came crashing down. And of course, these are good problems to have because I want to see my friends and I want to take advantage of these great work opportunities, except it all came at me at once and I really wasn't ready. It just was kind of like going from zero to 60 overnight. And I had total overwhelm and very quickly I found myself burned out, especially because, as many of you probably have experienced during this pandemic, we just aren't doing as much. So when you suddenly are in a position where you're being invited to different social events that you want to go to and different work things and just plans to see friends and do different things, it's just so much and I don't know how we did it before.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this to say, I reached out to my friend, career and life coach, Elizabeth Koraca. She had some amazing ideas for me, and this is stuff, honestly, I usually roll my eyes at. But she actually had specific things that we can do. And by the way, I should mention part of the reason that we were we're talking is because she has a new podcast called The Speaking Up podcast, which we will talk about in our interview. Elizabeth, as some of you know, and I used to work together at Reuters, we were both TV anchors. And since leaving, she has become a leader in her field in life and career coaching. You should definitely check out the Speaking Up podcast. But first, I want you to listen to my interview with Elizabeth Koraca. Here she is.

Bobbi Rebell:
Elizabeth Koraca, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here, Bobbi. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Always great to have you on. You are definitely a friend of the podcast. And speaking of podcast, congratulations on your new podcast, The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Oh, thank you so much. It's something I've wanted to do for so many years and really help empower people to speak up for themselves and ask for what they want. So I'm just excited that it's doing really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are rolling out the episodes. I know it's already a top ranked one, so everyone should definitely check out The Speaking Up podcast. We're going to talk about that more in a few minutes. But first, first of all, well, I have to convince we're very good friends. I asked you to come back on the podcast because of something that came up in our own private conversations that I really thought would be something of value for the grown up community, and that is my burnout. There's so many people out there with advice on how to of wait burnout, and that is wonderful and great. However, when you are in burnout, there's a lot less advice, but you have some great strategies. And so thank you for bringing them to us.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Can't wait. I can't wait to get to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and this has been something that's been a big topic for your clients, especially that you've been talking about a lot with your clients in the pandemic. Why do you think, before we get to your tips, why has this been so much worse in the pandemic? When in some ways, I feel like we're doing less. So I feel guilty about feeling burned out when there's actually less to do. And yet, I'm stressed out and burned out, my friend.

Elizabeth Koraca:
How you're feeling is completely normal and natural, and I think everyone needs to know that because during the pandemic, we had a lot of extra pressures and we're still in it. We are still in it. It's not over. We're just trying to live as normal as possible. So we've all had stress of getting COVID, loss of loved ones, quarantining, job loss, new jobs, all of a sudden maybe taking care of family, extended family members, children that's at home. You're homeschooling all of a sudden. All kinds of things we never thought we would have to do, we are adding to our plate that might have already been full.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. And yes, many of us parents now have kids going back to school, but we're feeling burned out from the last year and a half as stressed out about what happens if they get sent right back home. So much to talk about. Let's get to the tips that you sent over to me that we're going to go over. First of all, if you're feeling overwhelmed, what should we be doing?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Well, you want to stop, look and listen. Okay? If you're feeling that sense of overwhelm, you want to sit with it? Where is it? Is it in your chest? Is it in your gut? What makes you feel overwhelmed? Okay. And then stop yourself and ask, what is causing it? Write down what your biggest pain points are. Is it financial? Is it the kids? Is it external pressures? Are you not getting along with your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend? You want to really think about all of this and you have to pinpoint what is causing the overwhelm.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. And we talked about a lack of control. Sometimes things are happening to us that we never thought about we could not have been prepared about, and yet we have to manage that, and that kind of burns us out.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. Often, what stresses us, and that's what causes the burnout is the stress, we are focusing on things we cannot control. Okay? We cannot control when the pandemic is going to be over, but we can control other things. So you want to focus on what you can control. The feeling of being in control and in charge will help you to avoid burnout. And when you're in burnout, it will help you get out of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number two, look at what is on your plate.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Is it overflowing? Chances are, if you're overwhelmed, you've got too much on your plate. So what can you do? Who can you delegate to? What can you delete from your calendar? Or at least push it to a later date. Okay? All the time. And this happened to me the other day. I just felt like my calendar was just so packed and I had so much going on and I feel like we're even doing more as we're trying to go back to normal after what we've just experienced in the past year and a half. So think about all these things and then take action. What can I take off my plate?

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's hard because we're so conflicted because I have, for example, friends that I am dying to see, I haven't seen it so long, and at the same time, I'm hesitant because I just don't want that calendar to get so crowded because I'm afraid of even exaggerating the burnout that I'm already feeling. And we've gotten used to having more time to ourselves.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly. And I feel like what you're really saying is, what are my priorities? Yes, I want to see people and I want to see friends I haven't seen in a long time, but maybe thinking about spacing that out and what feels comfortable for you. So many other people are saying, "I'm not used to doing so much." As we start to try to go back to normal, people are used to being at home and spending a lot of time at home. So thinking about slowly going back into it and not jamming the calendar is really going to help you with that feeling of overwhelm, just to dissipate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tip number three, listen to your body, mind and emotions.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, yes and yes. And I touched upon that earlier in our conversations. If you don't know you're in overwhelm or you're feeling burnt out, listen to your body. When you're speaking to a certain person, does that give you anxiety? Does that cause overwhelm. When you're doing a certain project or task, does that feel overwhelming? When just the thought of doing something feels overwhelming, you want to stop and ask yourself, "How can I help myself in this moment? Is it setting a goal around this? Is it taking action? Is it asking for help?" It's so important to ask for help when we're feeling like this and to ask for help so we can avoid feeling like this, because it's really important to remember people are not mind readers. They don't know what you're feeling. Even you've got people that have been together for 20 years, they don't always know what you're thinking and feeling. So you have to tell people what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's such a good reminder because sometimes we get frustrated because we think people should be able to read our minds, and we have to actually be told by someone like you, "No, they can't read your minds." Believe it or not, no matter how long they've known you, even if they're related to you, they're not mind readers. The other thing we've talked about burnout from, and I experienced this is, I really had a social media burnout. I really enjoy social media. I love posing questions to the grownup community and having people interact and hearing from people.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this summer when I was in the middle of writing, finishing up writing, I should say, my book, which we'll talk about later, it's coming out in the spring, but I was in the middle of this and I just decided to go cold turkey and I really went off Instagram for more than a month. I miss that interaction. But right now, I also just feel a lot of burnout. What's your advice for people that feel like they have social media burnout? Is it to just cut it cold turkey like I did for a while? Or is there a way to sort of balance things?

Elizabeth Koraca:
It's okay to take a break. If you don't want to be on social every day and posting every day, you don't have to. Go at your own pace. So if you're feeling that burnout from social media, like you're on it too much or you feel like you've had to post too much, just take a step back and think what is comfortable for me? Is it posting something once a week? Is it going on once a day? Is it just looking at professional posts or focusing on personal? Whatever it is feels right, create a plan and write it down for yourself because when we don't write it down, it can cause tornado brain. When that stress and everything else is swirling around in your mind, it feels like a tornado. Okay? That's what often overwhelm feels like.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's a new expression for me, tornado brain. Wow.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes, and many of us feel tornado brain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tornado brain. Okay.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to use that. I'm going to tell people I have tornado brain. It needs to stop. Anyway, that's all great advice. People can get more great advice. I'm so impressed. You just started a new podcast, but you actually pumped out quite a few episodes. It's now going to go to only twice a week, but there's a bunch of them already out there. It's called The Speaking Up podcast. And it's really, at this point, it's all you. Although, I'm hoping you'll start doing interviews so I can get in there too. Tell us more about The Speaking Up podcast.

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. It's a lot of my experience grow up, being very fearful of speaking up for myself, and being afraid of public speaking and fearful, and just being afraid to ask for what I want. And then as you know, of course, as a Reuters television anchor, that all changed when I started my career in television news and I was on air. All of a sudden, I'm thrust into the spotlight and you have to speak up. You have to speak your mind. You need a strategy. You need a career strategy. You need to have a plan. So I share all of these tips and tricks and my top advice in my podcast. And I, of course, Bobbi, I would love to have you on when I start to have guests because right now, it's a solo podcast. But pretty soon, I'll be having people on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am there anytime you want. Where can people be in touch with you in addition to checking out The Speaking Up podcast wherever they listen to podcasts?

Elizabeth Koraca:
Yes. Wherever they listen to podcasts and on social media. When you have a unique name like Elizabeth Koraca, you often get your own handle. So my handle is @ElizabethKoraca, and that's K-O-R-A-C-A. And my website, of course, it's full of information and advice on me and my career coaching services. So that's ElizabethKoraca.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Thank you so much for joining me and indulging me because I really needed this advice. And like I said, I really hope that our grownup community benefited as well because I know so many people out there are feeling the burnout. Avoiding it is one thing, but sometimes we can't avoid it and we need to just deal with it and manage it, and these are amazing tips. So thank you so much.

Elizabeth Koraca:
So thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always feel so much better after talking with Elizabeth. Here are some my big takeaways. First of all, make the effort to actually write down your biggest pain points. I'm usually lazy about this, but I find that when I did it after Elizabeth told me to, it seemed much more manageable just to see the words on the page. Also, be realistic. Is your plate overflowing? Maybe you just have to say no and do less. And you can say, "No," even if you don't have a conflict. You don't have to give an explanation. Sometimes it's better to just say, "I can't do it," and maybe schedule it further out like Elizabeth said. And then finally, listen to your body, your mind and your emotions and get control. Set goals and then this is key for me at least, actually put them in your calendar. And that goes along with the whole idea of writing things down because they just seem less scary and less overwhelming when you write them down rather than just having them all in your head.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the term tornado brain that she used. I hadn't really thought of that, but that's something that I think I have a lot. I hope this helped you. And if you know friends that you think might be feeling this way, please share this episode. I would really love to grow the podcast, which is free to you, but it does cost me to produce. I have a wonderful team and they do get paid. Another way to support the podcast is to write reviews on our Apple podcast or any platform you listen to that has reviews. Please do rate and review. And sometimes, this is so easy, the best way to get the word out is to share a screenshot on social media. It's totally free. It takes just a second, and just tag me if it's on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Twitter, just @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you do so, that's great because I can then thank you. And it's also, it's just really nice for me to see that you guys are out there and you're listening. It means so much when you send me DMs on Instagram or just notes in whatever format you choose. It just means a lot. It means a lot. I also appreciate my dear friend, career and life coach, and the host of the Speaking Up podcast, Elizabeth Koraca. And she did a great job helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and per reduction by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on in Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.