“Understand, if you are a partial owner in a company what that actually entails and what your rights are.”

Kate Edwards, spent a year working as a founder with no salary and then a day before she would get the big pay day, she was shown the door.

You think it would never happen to you- but it can.

Kate's money story

Kate Edwards:
My money story relates to a previous startup that I was at and, you know, although of course I wasn't dating this person, as you mentioned it did end up becoming something where you think everything's all well and good at the beginning and then at the end it kind of turned sour. So I had started a company a few years back that was in the dating tech space, if you will, and my co-founder was great. He was a really great guy, you know, I had a couple other people working on the project and we essentially were working nights and weekends when we started. I eventually ended up quitting my job to work on the project full time and we worked together, building this product, for almost a year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have legal paperwork when you quit your job? How was that structured?

Kate Edwards:
Yeah, actually we did, you know, we worked with lawyers and we all wrote the paperwork together. So in theory, we all knew what we were getting into conceptually, but I realized I ultimately had no idea what I was doing at the time because I really didn't understand the implications of what it means to be in a business partnership with somebody. So fast forward to nearly the end of a full year working together, one of my co-founders, he essentially said to me, "I want you to leave the company and I want you to walk away with nothing." And I said, "Hey, you can't do that-"

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait. But you were partners and you had paperwork.

Kate Edwards:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, you were a partner if you are co-founder.

Kate Edwards:
Exactly. So essentially what the paperwork said was that all of us had equity or options essentially in the company, and as part of that, you're subject to what's called a vesting schedule. So a vesting schedule is determined by the company, was determined by us, and the standard vesting schedule is that if you have options in a company, you basically vest those options over time. So you have 100,000 options in a company that happens over the course of four years. And typically in this scenario and in most startups, you have a four year vesting schedule with the one year cliff. And a one year cliff, all it means is you can't access that. You can't purchase any options. You can't really own anything in that company, you know, until you basically have worked there for a year.

Kate Edwards:
So what this guy did to me was on literally day 364 he called me and said, "You're out." And there's a lot of legalities that happened and I'm simplifying it a little bit, but long story short, I walked away with nothing after working without a salary for a year and after creating this company that I really loved. Looking back, I think there's a lot of different things I could have done better, but the biggest thing that I realized, and the biggest lesson that I learned, was that it's not just about reading the paperwork or having a lawyer reading the paperwork, it's about truly understanding what it means to be in a partnership with somebody or what it means to be employed by somebody, or what does any type of ownership in a company mean.

Kate Edwards:
Since then, obviously, I've started a another company. We've been around for over three and a half years now, which is definitely crazy to think about, and we have 23 employees right now at Heartbeat. And so I've learned so much more. I've listened to podcasts, I've read so many more books to make sure that I have this understanding. And I also understand the impact of having a lawyer on your team. So I just wanted to share a little bit about the mistake that I made with the hope that anybody else who's working for a startup in the future can take my mistake and make sure that they don't do the same thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, did you have a lawyer at the time? I mean, were there red flags that you just didn't spot because people didn't look at it? Because if you guys were co-founders, how could he decide to oust you? That's what doesn't make sense. How did he have that power?

Kate Edwards:
Yeah, it's complicated. And you know, honestly, it's not clear cut. It's not like this person owns 51% and this person owns 49%, right. We had a number of different people involved as well, and different people had put in different amounts of money and things like that. So ultimately it was a decision that he could make. And I think being ousted is something that people see as, "Oh, that'll never happen to me," so it wasn't something that I had necessarily thought would happen. So because of that, because when you go into creating contracts with people you do have a good relationship with them, you often don't think about what the implications are if they go sour. So yes, I did have a lawyer look at the original paperwork for instance, but you know, everything was very standard in terms of how a typical startup is set up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So effectively he was able to control things because of the way the shares in the company were allocated.

Kate Edwards:
Absolutely. And there's also some things that weren't shared with me so I didn't have complete transparency into everything, which was another mistake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you elaborate at all?

Kate Edwards:
You know, just in terms of who the investors are and what his relationship with them are and things like that. All of those things were, you know, we actually didn't have very many investors. It was just a matter of understanding all of the players that were involved. But I do think the point of my story is not to speak ill of this person, but it's really just to say that I think understanding the types of stock options you have, you know, if you are a partial owner in a company, what that actually entails and what your rights are. If there's people on a board, those types of things are questions that I just straight up did not ask because I didn't know about. And those are all things that I think a lot of people make mistakes on just because they don't ask the right questions.

“I walked away with nothing after working without a salary for a year. And after creating this company that I really loved.”

Kate’s money lesson

Kate Edwards:
The lesson for our listeners is always, always understand essentially who you're getting into bed with. That refers not just to if you're starting a company, but very much so if you're joining a startup. I know a lot of millennials and younger people right now think it's really hot to work in tech, right? That's the cool industry to go into right now. But most people don't know what it means when somebody says, "Hey, here's 10,000 stock options or 50,000 stock options." They're an ISO, they're an RSU, there's all these types of kind of industry jargon that's thrown around and people get excited that they have some sort of ownership in the company, but they don't know what it means and they don't know how to act related to that. So the lesson is really read up as much as you can on what owning a part of a company or an option to own a part of a company means so that you're able to make sure that you maximize the money that you can potentially make from that opportunity.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also interesting that you signed a very standard contract, but yet there were still a lot of things that you didn't know, even though there weren't any necessarily red flags in the contract and a lawyer looked at it. So I think that's pretty interesting as well. Let's get to your everyday money tip because this is something that a lot of people have very strong feelings about one way or another.

“The biggest lesson that I learned was that it is not just about reading the paperwork or having a lawyer reading the paperwork, it is about truly understanding what it means to be in a partnership with somebody.”

Kate's everyday money tip

Kate Edwards:
I like to come in hot and my tip is to get an MBA. And the reason that it's my tip is just that it is a very clear return on investment. Data has shown a lot of people and particularly women are a little risk averse to getting an MBA because you have to take yourself out of the environment in the working world for a few years. You have to invest actual money, but you also have to invest time. I got an MBA, went to UCLA Anderson here in Los Angeles. I've done a little bit of research on this anecdotally as well, and from all the women I've spoken to, I now have friends from business school who work at Uber and Netflix and Hulu and McKinsey, all of these people working at these great companies, and they've all seen a very huge increase in their salaries.

I even had a friend who made $40,000 before going into business school and he came out of business school and made 200. The numbers basically show that the return on investment you see is somewhere between 250 and 325% return on salary immediately after graduating, and then of course lifetime earnings are increased as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it's a very smart thing and I think that the networking, what you talked about with all the different people that you've met and now you have contacts at all those other companies, should also not be underestimated, the value of that as well.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

It is scary out there. Standard legal documents don't always mean they will protect you. In fact, the standard may be designed to protect someone else. So just like with medical related decisions, it may be worth it to get more than one lawyer involved when agreeing to work for what was, in Kate's situation, a full year for free. And read it yourself also and ask the lawyer questions. But even then, know that things can go bad and don't blame yourself if it happens. It could happen to any of us.


Financial Grownup tip number two:

Get more educated. Kate is a big fan of the MBA and the numbers, they are real and compelling. I totally get it. It may not be for everybody and if that is not for you, you can still educate yourself with things that may not be as heavy a lift. MBAs are great, but that doesn't mean it is an option for everyone at every stage in their life and that's okay. I went, for example, and became a Certified Financial Planner and while I don't have a practice with financial planning clients, I know that first of all I could one day, it's always an option, it's always good to have options for different income streams. I know that it has resulted in getting me higher paying jobs.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Kate’s website www.heartbeat.com

Follow Kate!

• Instagram - @k8eddie

• Twitter - @k8eddie

• LinkedIn - @kateavelineedwards

Follow Heartbeat!

• Instagram - @Heartbeat

• Facebook - @Heartbeat

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Feeling the burnout? You are not alone.The World Health Organization (WHO) recognized burnout as a medical condition, resulting from chronic workplace stress. Bobbi talks with career coach Elizabeth Koraca about how to be able to recognize the symptoms and warning signs of burnout, and address them before it starts to take a serious toll on your health, relationships and life.

5 Easy Ways to Beat Burnout

1. Take your vacation days to actually recharge, refill and unplug

2. Put the phone down when you get home, even for small increments of time - Bobbi is now doing this- leaving it in another room

3. Set boundaries, know when to say no - you can't be all things to all people all the time - declining plans- don’t specify why, just say you can’t make it

4. Talk to someone you trust, like a doctor, coach or mentor about getting the tools to combat it - have not done this yet

5. Make yourself a priority, and schedule self-care time in your calendar to keep yourself accountable and actually do it- read a fiction book

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• The book Before We Were Yours by Lisa Wingate that we discussed in the episode

• The Mind Body Prescription by John E Sarno that we also discussed on the episode

Follow Elizabeth!

• Facebook - @ElizabethKoraca

• Twitter - @ElizabethKoraca

• Instagram - @ElizabethKoraca

• LinkedIn - @ElizabethKoraca

• YouTube

Sarah Larson Levey is becoming a familiar example of millennial entrepreneur success, recently being featured on the cover of Inc magazine and her company Y7 studio being named one of the magazine’s most inspiring companies last year. Keeping her costs at extreme minimal levels helped entrepreneur Sara Larson Levey grow her side hustle yoga startup while still working her full time job for two years.

Sarah's money story:

I actually was really unsatisfied with the yoga experiences that I was having throughout the city. It left me feeling really frustrated and lacking in what I was looking for. I wanted something where I could still move and sweat and get a really great workout in, but at the same time get that mental clarity that is touted for yoga. I just really couldn't find that so I decided to start my own place to practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's take it back a little. You're working in the fashion industry, you're married, you're in Brooklyn, you've got a job, you're busy, you're living your life. Most people, if they're not happy, they're going to fill out a form, a feedback form. You instead start a pop up. How does this happen and where does the money come from? Because you're 20 something, how old are you now?

Sarah L. Levey:
I'm 32 now. I was 26 at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most 26 year olds are dealing with other financial things. How did you literally start this? Where did the money come from? What did you do?

Sarah L. Levey:
The money came from my job. I have always been really good at saving. It was really just supposed to be a pop up at first, right? We found a super, super cheap space. We hired teachers off of Craigslist who are willing to work just to get the teaching experience and that was kind of it. As soon as we realized that this was going to be a thing that there were other people who resonated with the kind of yoga that we are providing, that's when I started looking for a little bit more of a permanent space.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things, and I know this as a student, the space is unique. Can you talk a little bit about that and also how do you pay for that? Especially in a pop up because there's a heat element to it. The studios are darkened. It's a very different atmosphere, so there's definitely some investing that has to go on when you set up a space.

Sarah L. Levey:
Yeah, I think for us, we really knew what we wanted and we were lucky enough to find a space that already didn't have windows. We brought in our own heaters and we rented it out by the hour. This space was actually a very large recording studio that was not used during morning hours on the weekends, and that's where we went in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's interesting because a lot of people don't think about that option to rent by the hour when you're starting a business. They might think you have to sign a lease for a longer period of time or come into a space. You were able to manage your cost that way.

Sarah L. Levey:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then how does it go? You have this pop up, how are you getting the word out and how do you start expanding and funding that expansion?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was all word of mouth. We would go out at like 4, 5:00 AM and just flier all over Williamsburg and Brooklyn where the first location was and that's how people came in. That was really all we did. It was all Instagram, Facebook and flyering around the neighborhood. We didn't have budget for anything. There was no budget to spare. Everything was being funded by my job and my husband's job at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get it to the next level? When do you feel you reached a critical point where you started thinking, this is really a thing and I might leave my job to do it? Because a side hustle doesn't always evolve.

Sarah L. Levey:
Right. It took a while. What's so great about New York is it is one of the few places where you can find a space that's willing to do a month to month or maybe do a split tenant kind of thing. We found a small 300 square foot space in an artist loft. All of the little suites were around 300 square feet. We paid a very, very small amount. Everything was included and we started out that way. The studio room could only fit 10 people maximum, and that's how we ran classes. We ran classes four a day before work and after work. I worked the front desk morning and night. My husband and I would switch off. The teachers were paid per student, so it was all dependent on them really getting the word out about their classes and bringing people in. We operated like that for a good nine months before we grew out of that space. Then we were fortunate enough to find another month to month space where we didn't really need to lay all this money out for security.

We were fortunate enough where the business was starting to generate enough cash that we could continue to float the business but that was it which is the reason that I continued working up until the spring of 2015. A good two years after we opened the studio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you and your husband having about money while this is going on? What was it like?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was interesting, it was the first time either of us had operated a business on a retail level. We didn't really know what we're doing, but I felt really confident that I didn't want to put classes on the schedule or do things around the studio that would put the vision of the experience in jeopardy. I wanted to always make sure we could pay rent, pay the teachers and also continue not to put pressure on ourselves so we could still do the things we wanted, have both really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the best thing you did in terms of financial decisions with the business and what's something that maybe you would do differently?

Sarah L. Levey:
That's a tough one because I love our journey so much. I think it's super interesting and an ode to really the fact that you can self-fund a business. We didn't take on private equity funding until we were six studios in and that was a choice on our part. It was definitely a little bit stressful but it was a choice we made so we could really hone the experience and not bring on partners who just had ideas to make more money, have a better cashflow. We were able to preserve the experience of the business. We included mat and towel at first and our laundry expenses were really, really high. I would have started charging for those immediately because we always felt the pinch around that. Other than that, I can't really see doing in another way.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you did take outside funding?

Sarah L. Levey:
We decided to take on outside funding to really be able to sign nicer spaces. If anyone has ever been to the Flatiron studio or the Union Square studio, those were studios that I painted the walls. I was the one on Craigslist finding people who could throw up a devising wall. We did all the electrical. We commissioned people to build the front desk or things like that. It was super, super bootstrapped. The more people that were coming in and out of the studio, we really wanted to have a little bit nicer amenities because it is hot yoga. We wanted to be able to have showers if we needed to and those things were really, really expensive. Taking on capital for us was a way to really open the doors to higher end retail spaces and have the money to invest in the build-outs.

Sarah’s money lesson:

I would say be realistic. It is totally okay to do two things at once and it's important, that way you don't lose sight of what your actual vision is. I think that if you're stressed about your personal finances, you're always going to be looking for ways to have your business make more money, right? Because you're feeling the pressure personally of like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? I think that's when people tend to lose the passion for their business because it becomes more of like, it's not growing fast enough, it's not doing what I want to do fast enough. A lot of good concepts take time and they take consistency to work. I would say just be really realistic and don't assume anything when you're planning. Don't assume things are going to work out exactly the way you want. There's always going to be hiccups and you have to be ready to combat that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an example of a hiccup that you can share?

Sarah L. Levey:
Oh yeah, of course. Our first Williamsburg studio was in the basement and there was a spring where we had a ton of snowstorms and then all of it melted and then it rained for like a week straight, the entire studio flooded. It cost us $20,000 which was a huge amount of money to us at the time. We had to replace all the floors, all the electrical. We had to redo basically the entire studio because of a flood. That's something that I never, I don't know, I'd never lived anywhere with a base. I don't know, it just didn't occur. It didn't occur to me and I was like, oh. I was like, I guess we have to close and do all this stuff. Then we had to get a mold check and just all of these things that you don't even think of. That was something that I was like, oh, okay, cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. Did you have insurance? Did you have insurance?

Sarah L. Levey:
Not at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but now you do.

Sarah L. Levey:
That is right. Lesson learned.

Sarah's everyday money tip:

Well, I used to all the time, purely out of convenience. I'm a big Postmates girl, I'm Postmating everything and then all of a sudden I was looking at my credit card bill. I was like, what am I spending so much money on? Everything was adding up. Once you do the delivery fee, you add the tip. I'm spending $30 on lunch every single day and it just adds up. Now I make a point where every Monday, I'm very lucky Whole Foods is directly across the street from our office. I stop at Whole Foods every Monday. I'll grab lettuce, vegetables, chicken, whatever it is so I have enough and I bring it to the office and I stick it in the fridge and it's basically like I have enough at the office to make lunch for myself every day. It takes so much pressure off of like making sure I order with enough time before I have to go to a meeting, being really stressed about it. It's here. I can make it when I need it and I'm set for the week.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips

1.Create additional stakeholders in your projects. Sarah empowered her initial round of teachers by paying them per students. The first win is that it saved Sarah on her cost, but the even more important thing it did was it rewarded the teachers for the impact that they made on the business. The more students they could bring, the more they made.

2.Buy insurance if you need it. Sarah blew it at first on this one. The flood sounds like it was a nightmare. Insurance would have cushioned the blow.

Episode Links:

Sarah’s website - www.y7-studio.com

Follow Sarah and Y7!

• Facebook - @Y7Studio

• Twitter - @Y7Studio

• Instagram - @Y7Studio

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Kara Perez of Bravely go and The Fairer Cents podcast shares how she tackled more than $25,000 in student debt making between $9 and $12 an hour. Plus her go-to home recipes for making foods you normally buy in the store including bread, pickles and tomato sauce.

“I had 5 student loans total. Four of them were public. One was private. And zero financial education.”

Kara’s money story:

Kara Perez:
Yes, so let me paint you a picture. I'm 26; I'm living in Austin, Texas. The year is 2014 and I am crying about money every day, because I don't have any and I have a lot of student loan debt and it's ruining my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, just paint the numbers. What do the numbers look like?

Kara Perez:
Yeah. So, in 2014 I made $18,000. I graduated college in 2011 with $25,302, so flash forward back to 2014, I still have a little over $18,000 in debt. So, my income is equivalent to my debt. I'm making between $800 and $1,100 a month, working as a caterer for $12 an hour and as an MMA gym receptionist for $9 an hour.

So, the money is not really there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And how did you feel?

Kara Perez:
Oh, I felt awful. I just was very much so treading water, if not falling backwards. I had to put one of my student loans ... I had five separate student loans ... I had to put one of them into deferment, because I couldn't make payments on it. I just didn't have enough money. And I was living in Austin, Texas with three roommates. I was trying to be frugal, but it was just ... the numbers quite literally did not add up, and I felt trapped, because I didn't know anything about money.

I didn't know how to use what I had. I didn't know how to get more of it, and I had no idea how to tackle my debt. It just felt like a weight on my shoulders everyday.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I just want to dial back a little bit. How did the debt come about in that, when you were taking it out, did you receive any financial education in the schools? Was it federal loans? Were they private loans? Were you consolidating them? What did this debt look like?

Kara Perez:
Yeah. I had five student loans total. Four of them were public; one was private, and zero financial education. I mean, god bless my mom in many ways, but growing up, we didn't talk about money, except for the fact that we didn't really have to. Single parent household. I have two siblings, and it was just very much so like, no we can't get that. We don't have the money for it. Not, hey, here's what the budget looks like and here's how much we're spending on rent, so we can't spend such and such ... you know, I just didn't have that break down. And in college, I also didn't get that break down.

And so, the narrative I heard was like, well, you'll take out loans so you can afford to go to school, you'll get a job and you'll pay them back. But of course I graduated in 2011, which was the aftermath of the recession and no one cared about my degree in English and jobs were changing and the workplace was changing. That path of take out the loans, get the job, open a 401K, pay back the loans, it wasn't really there anymore.

And so, it was just a whole lot of, "What am I doing?" in my mid-twenties.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what was the Google search for? What did you search on Google for?

Kara Perez:
Quite literally, how to pay off student loans faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did you find?

Kara Perez:
What was amazing is that a bunch of people who were blogging about personal finance popped up, and now I'm friends with many of those people. I fell into the world of personal finance blogging, where people were sharing their own stories in very casual ways of, "Hey, we're trying to pay off $100,000 in medical school debt," or "We're saving to buy our house in cash." And I thought, okay, this story features a cop and a teacher. If they can do it, I can do it.

For the first time, instead of feeling overwhelmed by money, this insight into other people's stories via their blogs made me feel like, oh, you're a normal person; I'm a normal person. If you can do it, I can do it.

So, from that, I spent two months just voraciously reading personal finance blogs, everything, anything. I was just crushing it. And then I started implementing some of the things I learned in my own life. So, even though I still had a really tiny income, I was able to pay off about $3,000 in 2014 in student loan debt. And so I was making $18,000, paid of $3,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
What specifically did you do? What were the first things that you learned?

Kara Perez:
First thing I learned was to sign up for automatic withdrawals from my checking account to pay my student loans, because I got a .25 percent interest reduction. So, even though it was a teeny amount, and even though I was scared because I didn't always have money in the account, I signed up for it anyway and just committed to always having money in the account. I was like, I'll just find a way. If that means I have to cut back on going out, that's totally fine. If that means I have to pick up an extra shift, I'll pick up an extra shift, but I want to get that reduction so I pay less in interest and I can get out of debt faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, what other things did you do that you learned?

Kara Perez:
The other biggest thing I would say was just getting organized about which debt I was paying off at a time, because I used to just make an extra $20 payment on this loan and an extra $20 payment on that loan, and my extra payments were kind of just thrown all over the place, and thus they weren't really making an impact.

So, I streamlined it. I used the debt avalanche pay off method, and made all my extra payments on my highest interest debt, and that really started compounding quickly, because an extra $20 every two weeks starts to add up, and then the more money ... I started also focusing on earning more, and in 2015 I made $32,000, which felt like, whoo, so much money!

I was able to put more towards the debt and make an extra $100 payment or something every two weeks, and it really, really started to go down quickly.

“With the right information and the right application you can change your life”

Kara’s money lesson:

The biggest lesson is, with the right information and the right application, you can change your life. So, even if you are really low-income or you're working part-time jobs, or you don't have access to a lot of tools that maybe you see other people having access to, find out what works for you. So, for me, again, it was signing up to get that interest reduction. It was getting very frugal. It was making more money via picking up other side hustles, so that I could funnel all of that toward my debt.

“It often is a healthier choice to make things at home, as well as a time saving and money saving choice”

Kara’s money tip:

Kara Perez:
Yeah, so I am a big ... well, I don't want to say a big, but I am becoming a big at-home cook.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all evolving.

Kara Perez:
We're all evolving. I'm trying, because I spent so long in the food service industry, I would always take home leftovers. I didn't have any cooking skills. So, this year, I have really focused on making more things from scratch, and I know that sounds a little like, oh, bougie, like, oh you have the time, and you have the energy to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and not only that, it's just intimidating also, because a lot of things that you think ... you look around the supermarket and things are made for you. There are things ... it's one thing to say, I'm not going to buy prepared food. I can cut up the cantaloupe myself. Okay, we know you can do that, but a lot of things that we buy, that I assume have to be made in a factory, apparently don't.

Kara Perez:
Definitely not. So, my big thing this year has been making homemade bread, which sounds, again, kind of intimidating, but it's actually so easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because what if you don't have a bread maker. I don't even have room if I wanted to get one for a bread maker.

Kara Perez:
Right. I don't have a bread maker either. You just put your flour, your yeast, your salt and if you want to put something like oats or something in there, you just put it in a bowl, mix it all up with some water, and then you let it rise over night.

The mixing takes two minutes max, you let it rise, and then you pop it in the oven for about 30 minutes, and then boom, beautiful, delicious bread.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, why does everybody feel they have to buy a bread maker? What do the bread makers do?

Kara Perez:
I honestly don't even know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know. I hope the bread maker people don't come after us.

Kara Perez:
The bread maker lobby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, but there are appliances for every little thing that I don't think that I don't think we really necessarily need, because that's one of my hesitations is, I don't want to do that, I don't want to take out. Like I know I could make mayonnaise myself, but you have to take out the food processor or whatever.

So, there's a couple other things that you're actually going to tell us how to make by ourselves, without having to go to the store, which by the way, also, you're avoiding all the preservatives and all that yucky stuff.

Kara Perez:
Yeah, it often is a healthier choice to make things at home, as well as a time saving and money saving choice. So, I also have started making pickles at home, which is, again, just literally you cut up the cucumbers, you stick them in your jar with some vinegar, some herbs, water, garlic and then you put the top on, and put it in the fridge for 12 hours, and then you've got pickles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I would never think about that. All you have to do take the cucumber and do that, and then it's pickles.

Kara Perez:
Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But we always just ... I don't know. It never occurred to me.

Kara Perez:
Yeah, it does work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You got one more.

Kara Perez:
And I make tomato sauce, which we eat a lot of pasta in my house, and so, that, again, it's just kind of stewing the tomatoes, the onions, the garlic, for about 30 minutes and then, boom, tomato sauce.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, I know making pasta is actually not that complicated either. It's basically just making the dough, and you don't need the fancy pasta-maker. You could just cut it into spaghetti or fettuccine or whatever shape you want. There's even just, little rollers that can make different shapes. So, you don't need the fancy pasta machine, that you therefore don't have to buy, and in my case, also, you don't have to have counter space for, because I'm in an apartment. So, I think that's a big thing to remember, that these don't require special equipment.

Kara Perez:
That's such a good ... I didn't even know that. I've been intimidated to make pasta, but now maybe that will be my goal for the next month, make some homemade pasta.

Financial grown-up tip number one:

Be proactive and take ownership of your financial challenges, and don't over-complicate them. For Kara, just having the information by Googling it, and looking up the most simple stuff and then figuring out the tools to create debt re-payment strategies was enough to get her on the path to success.

Financial grown-up tip number two:

Think about the things that we buy from the store that we don't have to buy. We already kind of have them right there, just in a different form. Maybe the labeling is different, but we basically already have them. We don't have to pay up for the fancy brand name.

For example, a lot of cleaning solutions are made up combining products you already have. Sometimes, just adding water. So, for example, and I got this from the Good Housekeeping Institute, which I'll leave a link to in the show notes. You could mix four tablespoons of baking soda with a quarter of warm water and you have a cleaning solution that works on kitchen counters, appliances and the inside of your refrigerator, so you don't need to buy separately another cleaning item, which may even have more chemicals added, who knows what, and you're keeping it simple.

And if you aren't impressed with the money that you are saving doing that, which you should be in general, okay, think of it as keeping your home less cluttered, and your to-do list shorter because you have one less product in your life, and that is, as I said, much less clutter. Just think how proud Marie Condo would be.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Kara’s website - www.BravelyGo.co

• Kara’s course - Talk Money To Me

• The Fairer Cents podcast

• Good housekeeping article - https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/tips/a24885/make-at-home-cleaners/

• The Four-Hour Week by Timothy Ferriss
  

Follow Kara!

• Instagram - @webravelygo

• Facebook - @webravelygo

• LinkedIn - @BravelyGoLLC

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include “Mom and Dad We Need to Talk. How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances” by Cameron Huddleston, “Clever Girl Finance: Ditch Debt, Save Money, and Build Real Wealth” by Bola Sokunbi and “Agent of Influence How to use Spy Skills to Sell Anything and Build a Successful Business” by Jason Hanson”

Some ground rules:

There will be only positive comments. Because why waste your time telling you about something I don’t think is worth your time. 

Also - we limit our selections to books written by authors that appear on the podcast. In most cases they will have already appeared- so you can then go back and listen to their episode if you want to learn more. Occasionally, the episode will be in the future - so hopefully you will subscribe so you don’t miss it. 

Here are 3 books I truly enjoyed in the past month!

Book #1

This book holds a special place in my heart- I have known the author, Cameron Huddleston for a few years and I feel like I had a front row seat seeing how this book evolved based on her own extremely intense personal experience. After years of hard work the book was finally released on June 25th and It is called “Mom and Dad we need to talk. How to have Essential conversations with your parents about their Finances.” And I was honored that Cameron asked me to write a blurb for the back cover so be sure to check that out if you pick up the book.

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. This is one of those taboo topics- that should not be but is. It’s like when they say people are more comfortable talking about sex than about money, This is kind of the ultimate taboo and as I have said, it is one that I personally struggle with.

2. She has specific solutions in the book if you like me, just don’t want to deal with this. One chapter (8 if you want to know) is literally called A step by step approach to a successful conversation. Which include things that should be obvious but aren’t: like listening without bias and write down everything. And for those of you asking to yourself - what if it doesn’t work- she even has a chapter for what do to if you at first don’t succeed.

3. The very end of the book has a long and specific list of additional resources that will save you a ton of time..

Who is this book for?

It is for everyone with parents, or any older relatives or friend they either have financial ties to or could possibly have to care for in the future.

Book #2

Clever Girl Finance: Ditch Debt, Save Money and Build Real Wealth by Bola Sokunbi.

Bola has developed a huge following because of her incredible story of saving $100,000 in 3 years after college and is an advocate for women’s financial independence. She is a certified financial educator and has a podcast and has been featured in several media outlets including Money Magazine and ABC News. This book is an extension of her popular website “Clever Girl Finance”

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. Bola admits to her own money mistakes. Like the time she celebrated that 100,000 savings by spending thousands on a Chanel bag.. and then more handbags. This actually happened. You can listen to it on the episode I did with Bola last year. We’ll link to it in the show notes.. but we’ve all had that moment. If not with money- then something else like celebrating weight loss- by eating something that was NOT on the eating plan. She’s right there with us and gets how hard it is.

2. She includes real world examples through case studies and interviews with women who have come back from severe debt to financial freedom and the opportunities that the success has provided. The stories are motivating and inspiring.

3. Speaking of inspiring- I love the inspirational quotes Bola includes: some are from big names like Oprah Winfrey’s quote “Surround yourself only with people who are going to lift you higher” and some are from Bola directly and hit the mark including “knowing where you stand financially will help you make plans for where you want to go”.

Who is this book for?

It is aimed at a beginner audience but is a great refresher for those who are already on the path to financial independence. While in theory it is aimed at women, there’s really not much in this book that is limited to women or that excludes men so I would say to the men in the audience not to let the title keep you from checking out the book if it looks interesting.

Book #3

Agent of Influence. How to use spy skills to persuade anyone, sell anything and build a successful business and it is by former CIA officer Jason Hanson.. founder of Spy Escape and Evasion. He is also the author of the NYTIMES best seller Spy Secrets that can save your life. The basic premise of the book is that spy skills are also business skills

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. The book has techniques that I had never heard of that a lot of very sophisticated people, especially in sales, probably have used on me very effectively. You feel like you are being let into a secret club where everyone knows things you don’t and now you are finally getting in on the secrets to how things really work.

2. Many of the specific skills taught in the book can translate into ways to be more successful in getting what you want in life, not just getting a sale or a deal. For example, Jason teaches readers how to get information from a conversation by looking at what is being communicated outside of the actual words. How to analyze facial expression, gestures, posture, eye contact, tone of voice, proximity and physical touch, and even the pace of their breathing. Things I never thought about but that really do tell a lot about what’s really going on. Using that extra information can give you an edge.

3. Almost as a case study, Jason shares his behind the scenes experience on Shark Tank and how he spent a ton of time researching the sharks, learning who would be the best fit, and how he would reel in this shark- in this case Daymond John- whom he wanted to work with for a very specific reason which he explains in the book. It really takes it to another level. I also research people heavily before big meetings and it has served me well.

Who is this book for?

This is a book for ambitious people who are willing to put in the work. Because all of Jason’s great ideas don’t just happen without putting in direct and thoughtful preparation. But they are innovative and they are things most of us will now know so they are well worth your time if you want to invest in yourself.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Cameron Huddleston’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Mom and Dad We Need To Talk

• Bola Sokunbi’s Financial Grownup episode + her Financial Grownup Guide episode + Get your copy of Clever Girl Finance

• Jason Hanson’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Agent of Influence

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Dani Nagel has had to defend her pricey Dazey-LA t-shirts but her refusal to cave to pressure to ship manufacturing overseas is winning her fans, and a growing army of ambassadors. She shares her strategies to leverage social media to create transparency, and grow her feminist brand.

Dani's money story:

Dani Nagel:
For sure. I love that article and when it came out, I didn't know what the title was going to be, I just did the interview with them, and I just laughed out loud. Literally the title was Why Thousands of People Are Spending $52 On These T-shirts. And it does seem so backwards because people are used to paying $20 maybe $30 for a shirt, and our shirts are $52, and they're made to order so people are waiting sometimes three weeks to get their shirts. So it seems so backwards in this Amazon age of people getting things in a couple of days at rock bottom prices. But we are all about slow fashion and we make our shirts sustainably out of organic cotton right here in Los Angeles, and they're made to order to eliminate all waste.

“I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our t’s and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted.”

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come to the idea that you're going to produce garments this way? Because I'm sure people said to you, "Oh, you should just offshore this and you can retail them for under 10 bucks."

Dani Nagel:
Oh, totally. Every time I look at the prices of producing it in a different place, it's tempting. I'm not going to do it. Like I'm strong standing by my values, but oh my gosh, it's very tempting. You can get things made for a fraction of the price. But another big part of my clothing line is all about female empowerment, and I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our tees and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted. And the truth is that most clothing companies can't say that. Production overseas is extremely inhumane and the garment workers are being oppressed, they're being in dangerous working conditions, paid extremely low wages, and we couldn't be a company that stood for female empowerment and put empowering phrases on our shirts without also thinking about everyone a part of that process.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you presented these shirts to interested parties, investors, et cetera, what was the reaction? Was there pushback?

Dani Nagel:
You know, where we get the most pushback is when we do Facebook ads, because people just don't understand and they're quick to judge. But luckily with our customers we spend so much time on social media educating them why the shirt costs that much and why it's truly valuable and it should cost that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And can you tell us more about where is the money going? I don't know if you can literally break down $52 but whatever you feel comfortable disclosing.

Dani Nagel:
Our shirts are actually made to order in Los Angeles, which is really crazy and nobody really does that because it's really difficult. But by doing that, we've been able to eliminate all waste in our production, which is one of the biggest reasons why the fashion industry is the number two polluting industry in the world, there's so much waste. We have partnered with an amazing production company. My production partner, Kelly, has worked with us. We're the Guinea pigs on this big project he had and we met right when I was starting Dazey. And he has a facility in Los Angeles. They small batch make the shirts, so they'll make like 10 shirts in mustard and 10 shirts in off-white. And when the shirts are ordered, that's when they're printed. So it's a really complicated process and it does take time and we really embrace the term slow fashion as literally this is going to be slow. We use that a lot in our marketing.

Dani’s money lesson:

“if you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production which is the person making it and paying them a fair living wage.”

I'm happy to stand up for our shirts every time we get one of those comments, like trolls on Instagram. And since our clothing is so much about female empowerment, some people see the price of our shirts and say something like, "Okay, your shirts aren't economically inclusive." Our brand is all about inclusivity, empowerment and people will say that. And my response to them is, "If you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production, which is the person making it, and paying them a fair living wage is truly what is going to be as economically inclusive as possible." And the truth is when you're paying $20, I mean maybe not $20, like $10, even 20 honestly for these shirts, someone else is paying the cost. That's usually somebody in the line of production being taken advantage of by these fast fashion companies. So I think the most feminist thing is paying for a shirt where everyone is being treated fairly in the process.

Dani's everyday money tip:

And as a slow fashion brand working with really tight margins, which people are always surprised to hear even with the $52 shirts, our margins are tight, making things to order here in LA, so I have to be really careful about our budgeting as a company and where I allocate my time as a small business owner. And something I did with my business coach, which really opened my mind to finances and allocating time was creating a list of how much time you spend doing each task and how much money that task generates. And she had me write down a list, and a couple of things on my list was our online blog. We run a blog, we promote a lot of other female owned businesses, talk about empowerment, and we were spending so much time curating this truly beautiful blog, almost like an article media website. And the truth is not a lot of people are reading our long form content.

And then I wrote down the time I spent on our ambassador program, which is something that generates a lot of money, and I was spending way more time on the blog that wasn't really generating us money and not enough time into our ambassador program. And putting it down on paper and looking at it was like a smack in the face and I realized I needed to better allocate my time. So once every few months, I sit down and kind of write down all the tasks I'm doing and what I'm getting back from those tasks, and I reprioritize the things. It's made a huge impact on our super nimble bootstraps business.

Episode Links:

Dani’s website - www.dazeyla.com

The Forbes article - Why Thousands Of Customers Pay $52 For These T-Shirts

Follow Dani!

• Instagram - @Dazey_LA

• Instagram - @Dazey_Dessert_House

• Instagram - @BizBabez

• Twitter - @dazey_la

• Facebook - @DazeyLA

How do you pay for your passion? Race car driver Aurora Straus became a financial grownup early on when as a young teen she wanted to get into the very expensive business of race car driving. Straus gets candid about how she leveraged LinkedIn and brownies to get the sponsorship money to make her dream come true.

Aurora's money story:

Aurora Straus:
Yeah. I mean, the unspoken elephant in the room in the racing world is that racing, particularly getting your feet on solid ground, requires a lot of track time. And a lot of track time requires exorbitant amounts of money. That is one of the largest reasons that racing is very much a family sport is because it's passed down from generation to generation because otherwise it's virtually impossible to, or very hard, I should say, to raise the funding to get involved.

I was blissfully unaware of this which I think was a very good thing when I started racing. When I was 13 my dad didn't want me to race cars, but he wanted me to become a safer driver so he put me in a stick shift Mazda Miata with him-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Just to interrupt here though. The driving age in both states is 16, and you're from Cold Spring, New York. So how are you driving at 13? Because I know people will want to know that.

“Sometimes going the distance is “oh my gosh I notice that you are working at 10 or 11pm and I’m going to stay with you and I’m going to buy you some dinner.”

Aurora Straus:
Yep. Depending on the insurance policy at some private race tracks, you can start driving at 13. So I started driving at Monticello Motor Club which was about 90 minutes away from New York City. I loved it. Long story short, decided I wanted to do this for the rest of my life, and my dad said, "That's great, but you're going to have to learn a lot of business in very little time.

To his credit he and my parents have both completely changed my life, and not just because of the opportunities they've given me, but because of the business sense that they've taught me.

My first sponsor came to me when I was 16, and I raced in a semiprofessional series for two years. Since then I've raised, oh gosh, hundreds of thousands of dollars in sponsorship money to make my own career happen. And I've just gone through this crazy journey. I started my own LLC. I've had to raise my own money. I've had to track metrics for my sponsors, and I think I grew up very quickly, but I wouldn't take any of it back. Because I've learned more about business from race car driving than I ever will from a summer job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about the process. How do you first start out getting sponsors? What is that like?

Aurora Straus:
Yep. Interestingly enough, LinkedIn. I spent a long time trying to navigate through friends of friends of friends, but then I started reaching out to marketing executives at companies that I thought would fit my brand really well. For me the most important thing about a potential new partner, a new sponsor for me, is that I am completely confident that I can deliver, and that it makes sense with my other sponsors and the brand I'm building for myself.

Right now one of my biggest sponsors is Richard Mill, a luxury watch brand, and that for example, doesn't necessarily go well with a mass market workout brand for example. So I'm very much about finding the right fit, making sure that I can deliver to the right companies. I pinpoint one company, and then I'll reach out to probably 100 or 200 people on LinkedIn depending on how big the company is. Generally out of 100 people I'll get maybe five or six to respond to me which is still a pretty good turn around rate all things considered. Then out of these six people responding to me, one person will actually give me their email, and I latch on to that one person for all it's worth. There's a good chance they might not be the right person to write me a sponsorship contract, but they might know the right persons.

So it's all about being scrappy. Race car driving is not as glamorous as people think it is, but I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the costs associated? Where is the sponsorship money going? Although I hope you also can take some a profit. That's perfectly fantastic, but what are the costs that you have to cover as a race car driver?

Aurora Straus:
The largest cost is just supporting the car. The racing industry revolves around teams who travel from race track to race track all across the country, all across the world depending on what series, and that costs money. Transportation costs money. What my coach said to me, I think three or four years ago, was, "Every time you turn a race car on at a racetrack, you can expect it to cost at least ten thousand dollars," and that's if you're trying to save money. That's if you're on a budget, you're not using new tires, you're not using new gas. And I've found that that's pretty tried and true. That in general, when I'm going to a race track I need to expect to spend at least ten thousand if not significantly more than that.

It's the tiny things that add up over time. A set of tires is a few thousand dollars. We use very specific race fuel that takes a long time to develop that costs a few thousand dollars.

The transportation might be five or six thousand. Race support, because you have a whole crew of guys that are there to support your car. You do hot pit stops so when you're in the middle of a race they've trained for decades how to take a tire off and put a new tire on in a couple of seconds. Those are also highly skilled individuals that need to get paid for a highly skilled job. So it adds up really quickly, and I also believe strongly that I never want to have to cut costs on a team just because your relationship with the team as a race car driver is crucial.

In the same way that you're developing business relationships in, let's say, the venture capital or private equity world, you take people out to dinner, you establish friendships with them. It's the same thing in the racing world. Those guys are going to be the people working on your car at two in the morning to make it a tenth of a second faster, and it's really important that you establish a good relationship.

Aurora’s money lesson:

Aurora Straus:
I'd say there are a bunch of different lessons. The main lesson for me is relationships matter. I've had to develop relationships in a really nuanced way with professionals in the industry including manufacturers at a company like BMW who I'm working with now, or guys on my race team, or team owners, or engineers. Sometimes, and I this is I think true in any industry, going the distance isn't necessarily giving someone a huge bonus or telling them that you care about them or giving them good feedback. Sometimes going the distance is, "Oh my gosh. I notice that you're working at 10:00, 11:00 PM, and I'm going to stay with you, and I'm going to go buy you some dinner or bring you some bake goods."

“Sometimes the best business decision you can make is to turn away deals that don’t value you like you think they should”

The second advice I would give, and I haven't really touched on this yet, but the sponsorship world and the racing world is very male dominated, and I'm also very young. It's taken me a long time to realize that sometimes the best business decision you can make is to turn away deals that don't value you like you think they should. And I've lost some deals because of that where I think these people are trying to take advantage of me. They see that I'm an 18, 19 year old girl, and they think that they could get the sponsorship contract for less. And I've walked away, and it's been hard, but I've also grown, and I've also realized that I get better deals because of that.

Aurora's everyday money tip:

Aurora Straus:
Yeah. My one main tip would be if you have to butter up a potential partner or just make someone happy or in my case, make friends. Come up with one kick ass brownie recipe. I love baking. I stress bake, so during midterms and finals I will almost always randomly show up to my dorm with huge batches of brownies, cookies, what have you. But it also is a lot more personal. I mean, part of my habit of gifting brownies to race teams and to friends came from the fact that I was 16 years old walking into business meetings, and I can't exactly bring wine. That would probably even more inappropriate.

“I started my own LLC. I have had to raise my own money. I’ve had to track metrics from my sponsors.. I’ve learned more about business from race car driving than I ever will from a summer job.”

It also just became a habit that I realized it's more personal than a wine bottle. It shows that you put time and effort into the relationship, and also there's nothing that bonds people more than sitting down at a table together and just talking about how your day was and eating a brownie.

Bobbi Rebell:
What could be better? No one could dispute that. Brownies are always a win.

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

Sometimes it's a numbers game. It's just a numbers game. You have to put in the effort, let the numbers add up, face the rejection, and keep at it. A lot of the time the rejection is just silence. So many times in my life I have not done as much outreach as I could have because it's so hard. Nobody likes to be rejected especially again, the silence. So I really take Aurora's experience and her results to heart. Reaching out to so many potential sponsors and employees at these companies on LinkedIn, it really was a big project, but she got it done. And because she kept at it and she played that numbers game, she got the results that she needed.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Aurora talked about her love of brownies and baked goods. That would definitely work on me. I've used the same technique on various projects. For example, when I was writing my book I sent the 30 role model contributors customized baked goods with their picture on them or the company logo, and I also them to their team members that I worked with. Basically, the gatekeepers, the people that control their schedules to make it happen. They're really important so I sent them also thank you baked goods, marked separately, so that they knew that I appreciated the role that they played in making the interview happen. Showing your appreciation is always a great thing to do, and no matter how healthy we all aspire to be, baked goods are always a good call. I hope I don't get any flack for saying that, but come on guys.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Aurora’s website - www.AuroraStraus.com

Girls with Drive website - www.GirlsWithDrive.org

Follow Aurora!

• Instagram - @aurorastraus

• Facebook - @aurorastraus

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Having good credit matters for so many things we want to do as financial grownups- from things as simple as getting a credit card, to being able to get a mortgage or even a job. But there are a lot of myths around what makes a good credit score and what can hurt it. We tackle 6 of them with Clever Girl Finance author Bola Sokunbi. 

6 credit myths that will probably surprise you

• Myth #1: paying your cell hone bill builds your credit score

• Myth #2: Carrying a credit card balance is good for your credit

• Myth #3 Closing unused credit cards is good for your credit

• Myth #4: Thinking you only have one credit score

• Myth #5: Checking your credit report will not reduce your credit score

• Myth #6 A bad credit score cannot be rebuilt

Episode Links

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Bola’s website - www.CleverGirlFinance.com

Bola’s previous Financial Grownup episode

Follow Bola!

• Instagram - @CleverGirlFinance

• Facebook - @CleverGirlFinance

• Twitter - @CleverGirlCGF

• Pinterest - @CleverGirlCGF

• YouTube - @CleverGirlFinance

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

We talk with Frank founder Charlie Javice, who has raised 15 million dollars for her startup that helps streamline the FAFSA process, about easy but often overlooked ways to make college more affordable. They include negotiating lower tuition, accessing scholarships that might be overlooked and the red flags to avoid when it comes to setting up a repayment plan for loans. 

5 tips to make college more affordable

1. Make sure you have exhausted all possible sources of funding

2. Choose the right repayment plan

3. Complete the FAFSA even if you think it is pointless

4. Don’t necessarily take the first financial aid offer

5. Negotiate your tuition

Episode Links:

Charlie’s Website Frank - www.WithFrank.org

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Follow Charlie!

• Twitter - @CharlieJavice

Follow WithFrank!

• Instagram - @WithFrank

• Facebook - @WithFrank

• Twitter - @With_Frank

• YouTube

• LinkedIn

Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing. 

Danielle's money story:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.

“I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different than anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth.”

Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?

Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?

Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?

Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?

Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.

Danielle’s money lesson:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.

“Money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money.”

Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?

Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.

Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.

Danielle's everyday money tip:

Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.

“Just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don’t have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting.”

Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.

Danielle Town:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.

Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.

Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.

In My Take you will learn:

Financial GrownUp Tip number one:

Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.

Financial GrownUp Tip number two:

If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.

Episode Links

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!! 

Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com

Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town:  Invested and on iTunes here 

Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested! 

Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:

• Investopedia

• CNBC

• CNN Money

• Reuters

• GoogleFinance

• Yahoo Finance

• Seeking Alpha

Follow Danielle!

• Twitter: @danielle_town

• Instagram: @danielletown

• Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sara Bliss liked her career writing for prestigious magazines, but she loved being able to pay her bills and have the financial freedom she deserved for her hard work, even more. So she decided to write for clients who had the budgets to pay her more, and has never looked back. She also shares tips on how to level-up careers from her bestselling book "Take The Leap".

In Sara's money story you will learn:

“I hustled a lot and wrote for everyone, and when you need to make money that is actually a great career motivator.”

I started in the art world, and I realized, pretty quickly, it just wasn't for me. I felt like we were moving art from one Park Avenue apartment to another, and I just wasn't super psyched about how much art sold for, which is what you have to be focused on if you're in that world.

I was writing all the time, on the side, so I took a writing for magazines class at NYU at night. Then, I ended up getting hired at House Beautiful, as an assistant, and then, that led to a whole magazine writing career. A few years later, I started freelancing, and I wrote a couple books, and that really took off.

Bobbi Rebell - Let's go back and talk about the money situation. So, first of all, the money, when you're working in the art business, how does the money work there? What would be your path, at that point, as a desk assistant, working at the front of an auction house, doing all these other tasks? What was that picture like, and then, what was it like transitioning to being a writer, from a financial standpoint?

Well, the job at Christie's actually paid hourly, with no benefits. It was ridiculous. It was basically designed for people who have wealthy parents. I needed to make money, but then, I chose another career, where you don't make a ton of money, starting out, which was in magazines. But, I was salaried, and I had benefits, and I made a little bit more than I did at Christie's, so that was exciting.

Bobbi Rebell - Was that first job your dream job?

It wasn't. It was my dream job to be in magazines, but it wasn't to be writing about design. I wanted to be in women's magazines, but you get pigeonholed really early, even if you want to change your career. If you don't have stuff on your resume, that directly correlates to what you want to do, people just can't see it, even at a super young age, I think.

So, for me, that writing for magazines job, was kind of crucial to getting me there, but the stuff that I was writing and publishing, in small local papers, was about art and design, because I had that experience, so it made sense. So, even from my first job, I always wanted to leap, and keep leaping, so I've always had that mentality.

Bobbi Rebell - Let's talk about that. You were constantly trading up jobs and assignments. How did you get to a level where, financially, it was sustainable to be a writer?

I went freelance way sooner than I should have, in all honesty, because I got married, and my husband was in business school in Boston. We had plan to leave New York for a couple years, and I saw, from being on the editorial side, that actually, the freelancers did pretty well. At that time, a feature story for a magazine, averaged around $2,000. Then, I got a book assignment pretty early on. So, you can make a living. It wasn't a huge amount of money. It was definitely under six figures, but I hustled a lot, and wrote for everyone, and when you need to make money, that's actually a great career motivator.

I did well at my career, because I needed to make an income. It wasn't just like a fun, hobby job for me, it was a serious career, but then, in 2008, the financial crisis really ended up affecting my industry. That, combined with the advent of the internet, has really killed magazines, and also has really devalued my work as a writer.

Bobbi Rebell - So now, how have you adjusted and pivoted, to maintain financial viability?

The key for me, was I realized early on, that ... or pretty quickly into this, that a lot of the brands I wrote about, they started wanting branded content. They wanted to create their own in-house magazines, or their own online blogs. They wanted copy that sounded really enticing and cool, and the way it would in a magazine, if a editorial writer was writing about it. So, I jumped onboard with that bandwagon, and I've worked for some amazing clients. I've worked for Bobbi Brown and Estee Lauder, and Erin, and Rosebud Hotels. I've done all that, and it's wonderful, because the brands pay a lot better than editorial now.

Editorial now, if you're writing on the internet, you can get, sometimes, your pay based on your traffic, which is ridiculous. Sometimes, you're paid based on assignment, and that's anywhere from 50-$250 for an editorial online assignment. It pays a little better if you write for the magazines, but those assignments are less and less and less. So, branding has been the key, for me, to financial viability, in this career.

In Sara’s money lesson you will learn:

“I did well at my career because I needed to make an income.”

I think the lesson is, you really need to see the direction your industry is going. I really saw, pretty quickly, that magazines were shrinking, and that opportunities were less and less. I can pretty much write for any editorial outlet, but if I want to have a career, and be financially successful, I had to really lessen the editorial side, and up the branding side. I'm actually okay with that. I love the branding work that I do. I'm very happy that I can make money from it, and that I can add value. It allows me, to then, take on projects that I really love, and think need to be out in the world, like Take the Leap.

In Sara's everyday money tip you will learn:

“70% of the people in my book are making more money at their new careers than they were at their previous careers.”

I am a bit of a cheapskate. I hate spending money on things that don't matter. When we go out to lunch or breakfast, or a bite with our kids, we always have the kids order water. I hate it when they want to order like mango smoothies, that cost like $10 each, and all that adds up. And the-

Bobbi Rebell - Yeah. They're not necessarily ... Mango smoothies are not really bad for you, but they are sugary. Water is better, I would argue.

Yeah. It's like soda and apple juice, and of all, it's just so expensive and silly. The next step that we're supposed to do, that I read about in a magazine, was to put that money, that you would save on the drinks, into a savings account for your kids, and then they can see the benefit of making those kind of small choices, and how quickly they add up.

Bobbi - I like that. You're taking it to the next level, so they're making the commitment.

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One - I'm going to reveal something, that I don't actually talk about directly on this show, but I think you guys should really understand how money works, in a lot of somewhat creative industries. I did what Sara did, only for on-camera work. I looked at the time involved, and the pay tied to working in editorial content, on-camera work for a corporation, and I made a career pivot, to doing more working in partnerships with brands.

Not only does it pay more, I truly love the work. So, think about what you do now, and if there is a different kind of employer, or a different kind of client, that will have the financial resources to pay you more, for the work that you already love to do.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two - I want to add to what Sara said about learning a new craft, and being real about what it takes. For example, when I decided to talk more about personal finances, as opposed to the stock market and economic news that I covered as a journalist, before writing my book, I decided to become a Certified Financial Planner. It was so challenging, guys. Tears of exhaustion and frustration, were involved on a regular basis, but I did it, so I could make a career transition, with the street cred that I wanted.

I encourage and support all of you to do the same in your ventures. Sara's mantra is, "Begin anyhow." You are ready now. This is the time to take control. Please be in touch. Let me know what you are doing to level up your career, and the money you earn.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Sara’s website - www.SaraBliss.com

Sara’s Book Take the Leap

Barbara Corcoran’s Financial Grownup episode

Christina Alger’s Financial Grownup episode

Follow Sara!

• Instagram - @SaraBlissNYC

• Twitter - @SaraBlissNYC

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

Jen Hemphill: The first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.


We were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give.

I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell: Were they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill: I don't think it was that. That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell: Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill: I'm also a saver.

When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell: Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill: It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell: Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift, a loan?

Jen Hemphill: Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him. He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell: It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill: Yes, because then emotionally we don’t get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

A little bit about Jen’s book:

The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

In my take you will learn:

Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s book Her Money Matters

Jen’s website - www.JenHemphill.com

Follow Jen!

Twitter - @jenhemphilll

Instagram - @jenhemphill

Facebook - @Jennifer.Hemphill

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Limitless author Laura Gassner Otting wanted out of her business, and she wanted to get what she was worth.

But because she only wanted to sell to a certain buyer, she had to be creative in how she priced the enterprise to get what she really wanted.

The exit strategy

Laura: I ran the firm the entire 15 years, not for maximum profitability, I needed to make enough money, right? How do you pay your mortgage as table stakes for everybody and there's something between the need to make number, the how do you pay your bills, and the want to make number which is the do you drive a Hyundai or do you drive a Maserati? Do you stay in the Holiday Inn or the Four Seasons? There's a lot of space in between those two numbers, so I ran it for enough money, not maximum profitability, but for maximum legacy, for maximum flexibility, for maximum impact

“ I wanted to change the world, I wanted to make it a better place but I also wanted to be present for my family and community activity and other things that I was doing, that was how I ran the company. ”

And when it came time to sell the company, we had the company valued by an external source, and then the hard negotiation started which is when I got kind of stuck because my self worth became dictated by the number in that valuation document and whether or not the people who helped me build the company thought it was actually worth it and that I should get to leave with that pot of money.

Or maybe they could shut the entire thing down and start it again without me and be just fine, right?

It's very difficult to sell a professional services firm when the leader leaves because there's this question of is the value of the firm with the leader? Is the Rolodex with the leader? Was the firm synonymous with me? And I felt very confident that in fact it wasn't and that they'd be just fine without me. They were not so sure and they were confident in their work and they were confident in their reach but you just never know and that's a pretty big bag to be left holding if all of a sudden I walk out the door and the clients follow me, even though I wasn't still doing the same kind of work.

“ I spent a lot of time with my ego in a bunch thinking about I’m worth this money”

That's what the outside advisor says and we should do it and then my husband turned to me one day and he said, 'You never ran it for maximum profitability. You ran it to make an impact in the world, to have flexibility in your personal life, to create an institution rather than a cathedral,' and he helped me understand that that was the difference between the need and the want. That everything I've ever created as a serial entrepreneur has still existed to this day, 25 years later, and I'm really proud of that. That money was only one meaningful way to look at value and he really helped me understand that I could sell it for enough money, which would give me the kind of life I wanted to build and the kind of legacy I wanted to leave. P.S. the firm has done so well and probably, in small part because I didn't handicap it with this giant financial burden, that they've actually done better than the projections would have said.

So I ended up selling the firm to them for $1, selling the firm outright, $1, 100 percent of the shares and a percentage of revenue for the following five years which was as far as we've all agreed, I can put my fingertips on any possible success. And that percentage of revenue will in fact, it's on pace four years into the five years, to outpace the number that the valuation gave.

I think the lesson for this is to really think about how you think about value and are you thinking about money

But here's the thing, I bet on them for the previous 15 years because I employed them and partnered with them to serve clients on my behalf with my name on the door. So I'd already been betting on them. It was a pretty safe bet.

And you also gave them a big boost by not saddling them with the cost of buying you out in advance because they didn't have to either pull money out of the resources of the current company or be hampered by debt payments.

And I took a risk on them, they took a risk on me, we were very clear in the writing up of the exit strategy that if I'm out there and I'm bad mouth or if I'm supporting other search firms or I'm doing things that will get in the way of their success, then the agreement is null and void. But I think a lot of this worked because we had invested in each other in the previous 15 years. We had gotten to know each other, we believed in each other and we defined success in the same way. Not as maximizing payment at every single moment but in terms of maximizing impact.

Laura’s Money tip

I think we spend a lot of times when big things happen in the world, sending teddy bears. We send thousands of teddy bears every time there's a natural disaster and the truth is that most of those teddy bears get incinerated. And the money that we could be spending to ship and store and distribute and yet incinerate those teddy bears, we could actually be spending on other things like long term change. And I think that we can apply that to our own lives. We all go to parties, we all go to events, we all have things happen in our lives and we bring along gifts and a lot of times those gifts are just stuff. So I want us to be more thoughtful about the money that we're spending on all of these gifts, that for the most part just make us feel better. Either our egos or our grandmother looking over our shoulder telling us that we have to be polite and not show up empty handed and think about what really would matter to the person who you are in service of.

And be smarter about our money that way.

Bobbi: Can you give me a personal example? Of a gift you've bought for somebody that you really think was on target?

Laura: Oh boy. A lot of those times they tend to be experiences, spending money on doing things together rather than just giving them another thing. It will be spending money on tickets to an event that I know a star that somebody loves and bringing them along with me and sharing time with them personally. I think time is so much more valuable to other people, that's my love language, is spending time with people and really connecting and being present with them. So I think doing things where we can spend experiences together rather than just spending money together, is a great way to spend money smarter.

About Laura’s book Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path and Live Your Best Life

Laura: When people try to ask me how do you find your passion? People always say, 'You should do work that matters and you'll never have to work a day in your life,' and I actually love work. I know you love your work, any of your listeners know that you love what you do because you can hear it in your voice and you have passion for it and so how do you find your passion? You think about the things that you spend your attention on. So what are the things that you do that nobody pays you to do? What are the things that you do outside of work? Or what are the things that you do at work that are not actually specifically in your job description? That's really where you like to spend your time and the more time that you spend leaning into the person that you are in those times, that's really how you get to do work that you love.


Bobbi: Another theme that is in the book that really resonated is you talk about the metrics we use to measure ourselves and using the wrong scorecard.

Laura: At some point in high school or in college, we were told to pick a major, pick a trade, pick a path and we were handed a list of metrics of success by which we should value that path. And those metrics were things like the brand procedure of the company or the flexibility or the benefits or how many skills we will acquire or yes of course, money, there's a bunch of them that I talk about in the book and they're all given the same weight. And we're told if you make a big salary, if you marry the right person, if you live in the right house, if you drive the right car, you'll be quote unquote successful. And yet, we're all so busy chasing that and running on this treadmill and spending more money in order to do those things, spending money on things we don't love to impress people we don't like, that's not a place where we should be spending our time because what that does is it's forcing us to define success as it's given to us by everybody else around us.


And it's not until we figure out what success really means for us, that we actually will be happy when we find the success. So if you take the metric of money, you might be somebody who likes to go on beautiful cosmopolitan vacations and have breakfast in bed at the Four Seasons Hotel, right? That's going to cost a lot of money but not a lot of time. You might be somebody who likes to go camping and go out into the wilderness and wake up in the morning over a sunrise beautiful lake and make your breakfast on the camp fire. That's not going to cost you a lot of money but it's going to cost you a lot of time. So if you're taking this external definition and just saying, 'I have to keep going and have to keep getting more salary and more salary and more salary,' without thinking about what the money means to you, then all that quote unquote success is going to be meaningless unless it comes with the thing that you want, which actually might be more vacation time instead.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

1. Saying goodbye should not be part of your exit strategy.

Exit gracefully, no take this job and shove it, obviously, but then work proactively, have a strategy to stay in touch and be remembered. And still be maybe part of the social network. Stay connected to colleagues from all stages of your life, that could even include school and, of course, jobs, conferences and so on. It's easier said than done but try as much as you can. First of all, it's obviously just nice, odds are you enjoy their company but it's also smart business. That former colleague you connect with once a year, may think of you for an interesting opportunity. So try to stay top of mine. This could even include being strategically active on social media.

2. Don’t send stuff just because

If you want to send something, if something tough has happened to somebody, maybe they lost a loved one, maybe they've suffered in some way, reconsider sending stuff just to send stuff and be aware that sometimes in this age where we don't want to have too much stuff, when you do send stuff, the recipients may feel obligated to keep it. So if you do want to send a thing, not everyone has time or wants to send experiences, maybe consider things that are splurge items that will be used up.

For example, a gift card. A gift card for a nice restaurant so that they can have a break from cooking or a credit to a babysitting agency for a guilt free night out. Or maybe they had a home damaged say by a flood or some natural disaster or something like that, maybe a gift card to a home goods retailer could be truly helpful. Something that they may not want to treat themselves to or they may be stretched to afford that alleviates a financial burden, that might be enjoyed and, of course, in many cases, guilt free because it came from you. Those kind of things can be really helpful.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They are called these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

Laura's website - www.LauraGassnerOtting.com

Laura’s book Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path and Live Your Best Life

Take Laura’s assessment quiz!

Follow Laura!

Instagram - @heylgo

Facebook - @heylgo

Twitter - @heylgo

LinkedIn - @heylgo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Charlotte Hale faced a big business dilemma.  When she named what she expected to be a seasonal business, Plum Pretty Sugar, she wanted to evoke a whimsical tone. But the brand soon became a powerhouse as the originator and pioneer of the now global multi-million dollar bridal ‘getting ready’ category, and she faced a challenge she compares to adulting but for brands. 

In Charlotte's money story you will learn:

Let's talk about the name, Plum Pretty Sugar, which makes you happy to saying it. I asked you before we started rolling how you came up with it and that was actually an interesting story because you think things are going to be one way when you start a project and then maybe not so much and maybe that's okay. Tell us your money story.

Yes. After my initial business, I was looking for what my next business was going to be. I didn't really have all the answers. I started what I thought would be a temporary business and it was something that sold robes and it was going to be for a season. By season, I mean a holiday season and just something that I could do easily and quickly and was also fun for me. I thought to myself, okay, well, what am I going to call this business? I gave it this fun, whimsical, playful name, Plum Pretty Sugar. Of course, one thing led to another and Plum Pretty Sugar is now the business. I still have the name obviously.

Did you think about changing the name? Do people approach you about the name? Because I had trouble saying it at the same time when I saw it on the screen, it made me happy. There's something very, as you say, very whimsical about it. Was there a story behind when you thought of the name? Do people talk to you about it and ask you about it now? Does it invite curiosity?

It always invites curiosity and when I named the business Plum Pretty Sugar, I wanted to have something that sort of went against the grain of everything you learned in business school, right? They tell you, you shouldn't have something that has more than three words and you shouldn't have alliteration, and you should create a word that means nothing that could mean everything, i.e. Google, Nike, et cetera. I just went against the grain entirely. You know, of course, I do think about it periodically in terms of, oh my gosh, it's so long, but at the same time it's so long that people almost remember it because it's so long or they changed the words kind of like you did.

Of course, we own all the URLs and all the versions of the order but because it's so long and people are like, "I forget the name," but they know it has pretty plum and plum pretty and sugar are built in there. It almost becomes memorable in a way. On the flip side, I sometimes want it to feel more sophisticated and elegant and more representative of where we are today. That's something that's sort of in my heart. When I say that to other people, they're like, but it is, it represents your brand perfectly. To the outside, I think it works. For me personally because I know where it started and why I started it, I have this back and forth kind of personal thing with it. It's fun. I do like it and we love the business.

It's interesting because you look back and it was almost a whimsical decision in and of itself, but it really was a pivotal branding decision that when you switch the business from being this seasonal business that you originally conceived of to being the permanent business, it's now a decade old, I should say. You did make a decision at some point to keep the name.

I did. I did. I really wrestled with that. You know, I thought, well, I have established the success. Why am I now going to go and change it? You know, it wasn't something that I could easily make up a story for or a marketing story for a while. This was great, but now I'm going to change it. I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward. That said, you know, we have done a couple of different collections that we've called for instance, PPS couture and we will reference ourselves sometimes as PPS when we need to or when we think that it's just a little bit too long for that given scenario. Also, another lesson is that it's really long to write as a logo and so we're always like, okay, how are we going to do our logo when we're ready for a logo update to make all those letters fit within a certain space or how people want logos to fit.

It does sound like what's happening is you are allowing the brand to grow up by having these things like PPS couture, you're adapting it for how the brand is evolving.

Yeah, we really are. I think also the connotation that I have and the whimsicality that it had for me initially, which kind of felt really sort of, I don't want to say young, but fun and lively. Now the way we've reiterated the letters a little bit differently and we're using the positioning of the logo a little bit differently and within the opportunities that we have, we're kind of growing up those words and trying to think of them differently. Sometimes it can be a challenge, but I don't think we can ever take away the name.

“What you think is temporary could be permanent whether it is a boyfriend .. or a business.. what you do in the early days impacts the long term”

In Charlotte’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, I guess, never think that something is temporary, what you think is temporary. It could be permanent, whether it's a boyfriend or a husband or business to a business. You know, what you do in the early days impacts the long-term and there's no doubt about that. To always think it through thoroughly and make smart decisions. I kind of knew in my gut when I named it, I was doing something that was kind of off the books and I probably should have listened to that at the time. We're going ahead and the name is staying.

Well, I like the name. I think it makes people feel happy. I think that it's serving you very well and like I said, I think you guys seem to have the way to adapt it in ways that will help the brand grow.

"Purchase quality pieces, think about who made them, where they came from and live with them for a long time.”

In Charlotte's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think for us and we talk about this in the brand too is just purchasing quality pieces, whether it's clothing or whether it's anything in your life, really, just to purchase quality pieces. Think about who made them, where they came from, and to live with them for a long time. For us as a brand that's important because we are in clothing and there is a decent amount of waste and we try not to be wasteful and we don't want to see whether it's clothing or plastic or whatever it is in landfills, for now, for our children, for our future. Buying quality pieces really, really can impact what we put in the landfill.

What are some specific things that our listeners can look for to know that something has been made in a responsible way and that is going to be long-lasting, et cetera?

Yeah. Shopping smaller, shopping locally, paying attention to the price point when something is 7.99 or $5 and it's almost like it's too good to be true then I think you really have to start thinking about who made this and what type of environment because it's just too cheap. That doesn't happen. You know, there's a cost for yardage. There's a cost for environmentally friendly ink. There's a cost to pay workers what they're supposed to be paid. When something is really too cheap, just think about it a couple of different ways and make sure that you really need it and want it.

“I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup tip number one. It goes to that saying that you should give a lot of thought to how you name a brand as much as it is possible, choose something that can evolve and grow with the business. It's also important to look at how others may remember that brand name and on that note, I want to point out something that Charlotte said sort of in passing. She has the URLs for all the ways people might mess up the name of her company. Grabbing a few extra URLs when you're setting up a business or a side hustle is inexpensive and really easy to do. I own close to 30 URLs tied to my various projects and ideas and side hustles. You know what? The cost is really minimal.

Set them up so that if someone types in something close to your business, they still find you. Make it as easy as possible for potential clients and customers and of course also friends and family that you want to be able to find your projects and your businesses. Financial Grownup tip number two, don't fight who you become as you grow up and go through the seasons and the milestones of life. Maybe just highlight different parts of who you are at that time. Yes, you will change, but the essence of who you are will not. Just like Plum Pretty Sugar still reflects the same essential vibe as the earlier versions, the earlier iterations of the business. It's just evolving and growing as it expands. This show is free for you but as I hope you guys can tell, we do put a lot of time, energy, and yes, there's a financial cost into this show and to keep it free for you, we do need your support.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

www.PlumPrettySugar.com

Follow Charlotte!

• Instagram - @PlumPrettySugar

• Personal Instagram - @CharlotteJayneHale

• Facebook - @PlumPrettySugar

• Twitter - @PlumPrettySugar

• Pinterest - @PlumPrettySugar

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author and workplace strategist Lindsey Pollack shares a negotiation story with a big twist and a surprise ending. Plus how we often fail ourselves in negotiations by not using simple techniques when putting together deals, and how we can learn to up our game. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

So my money story goes back to before I wrote all those books and had the lovely credentials that you shared. About 10 years ago, I was speaking on college campuses to students about getting jobs and I really wanted to elevate my business to the next level. And so I wanted to connect with a large brand that would help me raise my image and get into the corporate market.

And through a connection of a connection of a connection, I ended up having the opportunity to pitch a major social network. And my pitch to them was that I wanted to run a series of webinars to campus career centers to teach them how to use this social network and get their students to use it for their career success. You can probably guess which network it was.

And I had no platform. I had no reputation. I had nothing to offer. And so what I did -

Let me just ask you, how had you even been connected to them?

I was so set on a couple of different companies wanting to work with that I asked everyone that I knew, "Hey, do you know anyone at this company?" And it took one full year, Bobbi and finally, a friend of a friend worked out in Silicon Valley and said, "I know someone there, I'm willing to make an introduction." So I asked until I finally got a yes.

So you had already invested quite a bit of time and energy in this and a lot of tenacity. Okay. So now you get your moment, keep going.

Okay. So I got my moment and I wrote up a huge fancy proposal that I was really proud of and I thought, "How am I going to price this?" They don't know me. I did not want to do it for free. And so what I did, was I came up with two tiers. I came up with the tier that was a very, very low investment for this company to pay me to start this webinar and run it.

And then I came up with a really, really high number and said, "If I can train 5000 people in two months. If 5000 people signed up to take this webinar in two months, you'll pay me this number." And they agreed to it because they basically had nothing to lose because the first number was really small.

Well I mean you've transferred all of the risk. You're taking on all the risk if the project were to not go well. They basically don't have much at stake. The payment from them would be so small. But of course, you are getting huge reward if it goes well which of course I know it does. But keep going.

It went well. I did everything humanly possible to get 5000 people to sign up for those webinars. And I do want to give credit that I had a very warm introduction. So I think that network and connection really helped. But I worked like crazy to get those people to sign up. I made the number. And the best part of the story is that I continued to work with that company for six more years. So I think by proving myself at the beginning, I was able to start the relationship off right and it truly was a game-changer for my business.

In Lindsey’s money lesson you will learn:

I think there are two lessons. One is to be really clear on what you want and if you get the introduction you want or if you get the opportunity you want, how are you going to turn it into something big. I think a lot of people say they want success or they want to write a book or they want to get their script produced. But once you have the opportunity in front of you, what are you going to do to make sure that you get a yes. And I can't say I knew at the time that this would be such a lesson but it was so empowering to know that I was willing to put everything on the table and work tenaciously, as you said, to get it. So know what you want and really think about how you can get the other side to say yes. Even if it means that you have to put some risk on the table.

You also mentioned the term a warm introduction. Can you talk more about how that came about, how that comes about, how people can get that more, and the importance of the kind introduction that you get? The nuance there.

Absolutely. And Bobbi, you are such a good practitioner of this generously making introductions for people you know and trust. I think that it's really easy to connect with someone today, whether it's on a social network, whether it's sending an email, finding somebody's phone number. That's easy. What's harder is standing out from the crowd. And I think the way to do that is when you have a person, a human being, who knows and trusts you who always knows and is trusted by the person you want to meet.

So I don't think it was just me and my proposal that got that company to say yes. I think it was the fact that someone who they trusted and vouched for me was able to make that introduction. You know we live in a world of a lot of connections but that true trusted connection, I think is more valuable than ever. That to me is a warm connection.

In Lindsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

I am laughing that my money story is about how great of a negotiator I am because it took me so long to learn how to improve my negotiation skills and my best negotiation tip is silence.

So why? We let there be a moment of silence there so everyone could think about that.

Silence is really uncomfortable. And I'm so glad you let that moment linger because it shows how much anyone wants to desperately make that silence go away. And so what I used to do, when I first started out as a speaker or as an author, was say something like, "Bobbi, the price of my speech is $1000." And if there was a nanosecond of silence, I would say, "But if you only want to pay 750 that's okay." Because I was so uncomfortable with the silence.

So letting a number sit there. Asking somebody, even if you're on the phone with your mobile phone provider saying, "Is that the best you can do? Can you offer me a different rate?" We jump in too quickly and say, "Or not, that's okay. Forget it." Letting that silence linger is so hard and has been a huge challenge for me but it is my best money tip to not talk myself down or lose an opportunity to get a better price because I'm not willing to sit with silence.

Can you recall any time that was super effective using that technique? Can you give us an example?

Oh, everyday when I'm negotiating for my business. As I've gotten more successful as a speaker, I've raised my prices. And probably the hardest one to do is to raise a price on an existing valued client. But over time, it's really a necessity to grow your business.

I had to say to someone just the other day, "I've raised my prices by 15%. I know that we've always been at X number. The new number is this." And I so wanted to say, "But if you don't want to pay that's okay." Or, "I know that might be challenging." But I just said it, I let it sit there and the person said, "Okay."

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip number one: Lindsey talked about warm introductions and I could not agree more. But how do you get started? Well the most important thing is to reach out and ask people in your industry or even just friends and family and just casual conversation to tell you more about what they're working on, what their goals are, and lead into how you might be able to help them. Don't be overly aggressive. But be creative. Are there things that you could do? And then follow up. And this is the most important thing. Don't ask them for anything in return.

The crazy thing that I have found is that the people that have come forward on my behalf and made introductions for me, aren't always the ones that I have helped. It's not always linear. In fact, it rarely is. Very often the people helping me are people that aren't necessarily in my closest circles. They're people that I've met through my life that I've stayed in touch with. Maybe a quick email every six months, a quick coffee date once or twice a year. That kind of thing. And just being in touch with them and being considerate of what they're going through and what their needs are, maybe they'll think of you when an opportunity that's appropriate for you comes about. Or maybe they'll be there for you if you want an introduction to someone that they know. Be patient. If you give, you will receive.

Financial Grownup Tip number two: Lindsey's book is so full of great tips for us. She shared a couple, but I wanted to give a little bit more. So here are some other tips from Lindsey.

First of all, if you can work up the courage and feel comfortable and if you don't then get comfortable, do this, work up to this. Ask your boss to CC you on emails even when you don't need to be directly involved. It's going to give you insights into things that are going on in your company beyond your immediate duties, give you a wider perspective.

Lindsey also suggests sending video emails on occasion instead of writing out what you want to say. Just film a quick video and attach it to an email. It can be very effective.

One more final tip: Remix your meetings. Just try sitting in different seats than you usually do and that could actually change the group dynamic and maybe the group think. Come up with some different ideas or just give you a little more energy in your day.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Check out Lindsey's website - www.LindseyPollak.com

• Lindsey's new book The Remix

Follow Lindsey!

• Instagram - @LindseyPollak

• Facebook - @LindseyPollakAuthor

• Twitter - @LindseyPollak

• LinkedIn - @LindseyPollak

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Talesha Carter lost all the money she had at the rodeo with friends. Fortunately she was only 9 years old.  But the money lesson stayed with her and created a money focus that is helping her to serve others.

In Talesha's money story you will learn:

I loved it, yes. I grew up in a small town. Rodeos were a big deal. This particular rodeo was actually down in Salt Lake City area, so about an hour and a half away from where I grew up. This was like the big rigs.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big time.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. It was so much fun. I went there with my friend and her family.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were how old?

Talesha Carter:
I was nine years old. I was a little wee one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Okay, so this is sort of a little bit of independence that you're getting, and your parents gave you, really, your first taste of financial independence, and spoiler alert, you failed spectacularly. Tell us exactly what happened. What did they do? They entrusted you. They said, "Okay, you're a big girl, you're nine years old, we're going to give you this responsibility." What happened?

Talesha Carter:
Yes! So they gave me the money. It was $50, and they told me, "Be very careful with this money. Please don't lose it. We're trusting you that you can be responsible with it." Years before they had started to teach me about saving money and spending money, so I had my little buckets and everything, so I had a pretty good concept. I'm the oldest child, so again they entrusted me that I could do well with it. I was so excited that they would let me have my own money, and therefore I got to have my own wallet to keep the fancy-pantsy money in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're all organized, you've got your money and your wallet, and what were you going to spend it on? What was this money for?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Oh, anything I wanted. It could be food, it could be souvenirs, it could be little outings that we were going to do, because we were also going to be going to Lagoon, which is an amusement park here in Utah. So lots of good things that we were going to be able to use with it, and so I was there, and just having so much fun. I was obsessed with the broncos, and just being able to watch the cowboys there and watching the bull riding, all that. I just was so entranced by it, and had a lot of soda beforehand, and about midway through, I was a little kid. You don't have much bladder control.

So I'm like, "Okay, I've got to go to the bathroom." I remember having this distinct memory of, "Oh, I have to take my money with me. I can't just leave my wallet here on the fence." Then the next thought was, "Oh, I'd better take it with me, because my parents said, 'Always keep your money with you. Don't lose your money.'"

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were being financially responsible.

Talesha Carter:
That's what I thought, yes. As a nine year old. So my friend and I, we went and found the bathroom, and I remembered, I didn't want to put it on the gross dirty floor, so I put it on the back of the toilet seat. I went to the bathroom, came out, washed my hands and everything, and I left it there on the toilet seat. Completely forgot that it was even there. Came back to our seats, we were enjoying the rodeo, and then I just had that sinking pit in my stomach of, "Oh my gosh, where is my wallet?" You know, as a grown up woman now, if you've ever left your purse somewhere and you have that moment of panic, that's what I felt as a nine year old, was that moment of, "Oh my gosh, I've got to go get my money. Where is my money? Where did I leave this money?"

And so we quickly went back to the bathroom, and of course, we went into every single stall, and nothing was there and no one had turned it in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Aw. You went to the lost and found?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes, we did everything to try and find it, and you know, hopefully someone else enjoyed that $50.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's disappointing that somebody did not turn that in to lost and found. I mean, did you have your name on it, anything? As a nine year old, we tend to put name tags on our kids' stuff.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes. You know, I'm sure I probably did, but I don't remember how that was. But I think one of the most disappointing things was that people could be dishonest. And that was a real big gut punch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you left it there, and I get it. That's irresponsible.

Talesha Carter:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lesson when you're nine, but somebody also took it! And that's also a lesson, that if you don't pay attention to your money, someone might take it.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So then from there I had to have that hard conversation and call my mom and dad, and tell them, "Hey, I'm really sorry, but I lost your money." I could hear their disappointment through the phone, but my parents are so amazing and incredible, and they just walked me through it. They said they were disappointed, but that they loved me and it was okay, and we could make that money back, and it wasn't earth-shattering, but I think for me the biggest thing is that nine year old was feeling that guilt that I had lost my parents' hard earned money, and then as well, feeling upset that someone would take it, and then me feeling like, "Oh my gosh, now I'm always going to lose my money."

So especially when I started my own business, that was where I started to see it come through a lot. I've always loved money, but that belief of, "Oh, I'm going to lose this money." So then I got really, I would hold onto it, and I almost created this scarcity mindset with money of, "If I don't keep it with me, or if I'm not tracking it 100% through my bank account, it's going to lose money," or some hacker is going to come on and take it.

So it made me almost shift into that scarcity greedy side of money, instead of just money flows to me easily, side of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And negativity about money, that money is not something that can empower you, it's something that you have to kind of hoard and protect and keep because someone else might take it from you. And that can really weigh on you.

Talesha Carter:
Yeah. It was a huge, that was probably one of the biggest lessons in that, is that I had to be able to let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me.

“I had to be able to  let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me” 

In Talesha’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, so I had to really learn how to identify my money beliefs. One of the ways I like to do that, and what I teach my coaching clients, is to start to look at the money that they have right now, and ask themselves, how do they feel about it? Are you happy? Are you sad? Does this overwhelm you? Does it stress you out?

And then from there, write letters to your money. Identify what your money is trying to tell you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you actually write letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
I do. I do, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you say in your letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
When I was first starting out, it was, "Why do you always leave? Why is there never enough? Why do I feel like any time I make money, it just quickly leaves?" The bills, whatever it is that you have. And so it first started out very negatively, like, "I don't like you. Why do you always leave me?"

Then it has slowly shifted into, "You're pretty awesome. Thank you so much for showing up in my life. This is really cool that I made $100 today by helping out a person, and now I'm going to turn around and utilize this to help my family or another family." Just writing like I would write to my best friend.

“ I had to learn how to identify my money beliefs”

In Talesha's everyday money tip you will learn:

Talesha Carter:
A lot of times we do things electronically, and so I like to cash my money, and put it into cash. And then I carry $100 worth of cash with me, and it's in the range from $2 bills all the way up to $100 bills. From there, I look at it every single day, and I'll say, "Thank you for showing up in my life. How can I help serve another person with this money?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So gratitude.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So much gratitude.

“People could be dishonest and that was a real gut punch” 

Financial grownup tip number one:

Look out for your friends' money and possessions. It would be obvious for me to say, "Keep tabs on your own stuff when you are out and about." That goes without saying. But I'm going to share a story, and I still feel sick to my stomach about it.

I was in London with a friend in college, we were at a restaurant. She went to the ladies' room, and I did not realize it, but she had left her bag somewhere. Maybe it was on the floor, the back of the chair, I wasn't really paying attention.

She hadn't said anything, but I was at the table, and her bag was somewhere. The thing is, I wasn't paying attention. And when she returned, she didn't notice anything either. But when we went to pay the bill, we noticed the bag had disappeared.

I still feel bad. Someone obviously came by and swiped it while she was away, or maybe it was when we were just talking, who knows? The point is, we weren't paying attention. We need to have each others' backs.

Financial grownup tip number two:

You probably won't get a do-over, so come up with a do-next. What are you going to do next time, after something goes wrong.

I want you guys to give it some thought, and when you have time, please DM me and let me know how you have come back from doing something cringe worthy with your money, like leaving your wallet in the bathroom. Because as I said at the top of the show, we all have those moments that we wish we could get a do-over on.

Heads up, everyone. Financial grownups pay attention to the news and learn from it. Here is your shortcut.

Episode/Other Links:

• Talesha's 1-on-1 coaching

• Talesha's Facebook Group- Foster Vitality: Energy Connection

Check out Talesha's website -

www.FosterVitality.com

Follow Talesha!

• Instagram - @FosterVitality

• Facebook - @FosterVitality

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry joins Bobbi with 3 specific things you can do today to upgrade your investing strategy, along with her take on how to be a successful investor.  For example: How much should you be paying for your investments? How long should you set it and forget it- when do you check in on your investments? What is an investment audit? Are all index funds the same? Plus a preview of her new book “Broke Millennial Takes on Investing’ . How to tell if your goals are in line with the investment choices you are making? And what to do if you don’t understand an investment term but don’t want to ask. 

Here are the 3 things you must know about actionable investing tips

• Increase contributions in small increments

• Pay attention to expense ratios- they matter so much

• write down goals and check in once a year

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

• Jill Schlesinger's Financial Grownup episode

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Quilt co-founder Ashley Sumner faced a totally unexpected and massive tuition bill mid-way through college after her dad’s business took a hit in the recession. The skills she learned in rising to the challenge led her first to a matchmaking business, and later to create  Quilt- a tech platform that connects female entrepreneurs online and in person.  

In Ashley's money story you will learn:

It's definitely not the lesson I thought I was going to be learning during those formative years. I can say that I'm very grateful for my upbringing, my family worked very hard, were entrepreneurs and we had a very financially stable life. My father, who had financially supported me my entire life, while I was the middle way going through school at NYU, which is arguably one of the most expensive private schools in the country, went from being a multimillionaire and extremely wealthy man to basically losing everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
What, just quickly, what had happened? Was he in an industry that changed?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, he's a land developer. He's an interest, he has a fascinating story, he kind of grew up with nothing, ran away from home, built up his entire career, learned this real estate trade and land development, moved west, one of the kind of first guys to go out and build land and I think during the financial crash while I was at school in 2008 everything changed and it really wasn't kind of prepared for it. He's actually since rebuilt himself up so his story is a fascinating one financially as well. But it was definitely-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you went to college with basically the understanding that you were not focused on financing your own college, it was going to be paid for, but I take it there wasn't actual money in an account that was separated?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, exactly. He was going to pay for the entirety of it, that was a huge part of my decision actually to go and be a musical theater major, because everybody knows you don't really graduate diving into a six figure salary and yeah that was a huge shift that took place a couple of years in, right while I was gearing up to start auditioning.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was the talk like? What happened, did you just get a phone call one day that, "Honey, the money that was set aside for your college I need to use to rebuild my business." Or was it a gradual process, what was it like?

Ashley Sumner:
It was kind of an ongoing conversation, I mean I saw him struggle quite a bit and I've always been grateful for his capacity to show up and financially support me, throughout all of my dreams and very precocious childhood, lots of very big dreams to move to New York City from this small town. It was something that had been happening year over year and he really did try to continue to show up and support me and it was really more towards the end when I was graduating and trying to finalize my final year and where I was going to live and what I was going to start doing that we kind of came to an understanding that it was time. And I had this weird kind of desire to also ... I knew that it was time to learn, learn how to take care of myself, it was terrifying.

Ashley Sumner:
But I also knew that it was one of those things that I just trusted was going to really teach me some of the foundational things that I needed to know that I honestly beleive are the reason why I'm here today as a founder and I've been able to raise money and do some of the things that I'm so grateful to be able to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things I love is the next part of the story which is rather than just getting a job, you started a business.

Ashley Sumner:
I did. Yeah, I am definitely scrappy and the daughter of entrepreneurs, I can say that. I figured out that I had a knack in sales but not just any sales, in the space of matchmaking, so I had started, I had a start up in the matchmaking space and ultimately went on to have my own with some partners. And yeah it was just a skill that I had, you needed very little to get started outside of an ability to meet with and connect with people and listen to their needs and provide that value and that's very much the beginning of my community development career which has led me to my passion and purpose in helping others connect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because like, and we're going to go back and talk more about Quilt, but it does make sense because you're matchmaking. Instead of romantic matchmaking you're actually matchmaking for different kinds of relationships. I do want to just touch on the fact that while you were doing this, first working for somebody but then very much an entrepreneurial venture, you still kept auditioning and I think that's really inspiring because it shows people that you don't have to give up one dream to fund the other dream.

Ashley Sumner:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were able to do both.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, you know we're in the hyphen-hyphen-hyphen and I've been very proud of the multitude, I think, of starting off as soft skills and now hard skills that I've always had, an ability, I think, to architect. We can architect the way we want our lives to be and we don't need to kind of follow any traditional step by step or climbing a ladder and I'm grateful that my parents taught me that.

“We can architect the way we want our lives to be, and we don’t need to follow any traditional step by step or climbing the ladder”

In Ashley’s money lesson you will learn:

I think so much of having debt which I was under the weight of until six months ago is the head trash that comes along with it. I think there's a lot of shame and judgment and guilt around having that and seeing that there and there really are a lot of, I don't need to bore you with all of the ways that are out there, the practical ways that you can kind of chip off and get above water and start to breathe again. But I think kind of the mental game that it can play on you if you don't learn how to let go and understand that it's just a day by day, month by month, year by year planning, that's kind of my tip which is don't make it worse by also being so hard on yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of us, not only judge other people, but judge ourselves too harshly.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, absolutely, I am my harshest critic. I was very ashamed to even share it with anyone, I kind of felt a little bit like an imposter or a fraud in having it. But every time I looked at it my refrain was like, "Those choices helped me get to where I am today and I'm so happy where I am today." So otherwise, who knows if I hadn't take that risk if it wouldn’t have led to now?

“It was empowering to understand how resourceful I am and how I could come up with non-traditional ways of making money”

In Ashley's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, you know I have to give our head of product kudos for this, who teaches me all of those like tech savvy things. But I recently moved and I've recently learned about the abandoned cart method, when you're buying certain things online, just like leave it in the cart, walk away, go have a bit, go for a workout and then you come back and there's a miraculous little discount code hanging out in your inbox. So I think I've saved about $500 in the past few days on all of the new items that are on it's way to my home.

Financial Grown Up tip number one:

Ashley talked about the shame of debt. The reality is that debt can be a way to accomplish goals, so if you have debt for a good reason, and I'm not talking about excessive shopping sprees and all that stereotypical stuff, but I'm talking about good stuff. In her case paying for a great college education, as Ashley says, get rid of the mental trash, do not be ashamed, if it's your thing to talk about it externally, to socialize it, to talk to people about it because for some people accountability can really motivate you to pay it off faster or to figure out the right plan for you. But it's also okay to be something that you don't talk about, it doesn't have to be everyone's business, not everything about your finances for sure needs to be public, it's okay to keep it private.

Financial Grown Up tip number two:

Be sensitive and aware of what is happening financially to your parents, as is appropriate, at the appropriate age, however you define it and also of course to other members of your family, your generation and other generations. Ashley was so gracious in speaking about her fathers experiences, wealth is not always consistent, we'd like it to be, we can do things in our control to create financial stability but sometimes well a recession hits, as happened. Or an investment just doesn't perform as you had hoped and has all the research and how all the research had implied it would work. Or a business is simply struggling, things go through cycles, life is messy as they say. If your parents or members of your family can help you, maybe it's grandparents, maybe it's aunts, uncles, siblings, whatever, say thank you. But for the times that they can't, be there for them in the way that makes sense for your family.

Episode Links:

Melanie Lockhart's Financial Grownup episode

Lola conference

Check out Ashley's website -

www.WeAreQuilt.com

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram - @WeAreQuilt

• Twitter - @WeAreQuilt

• Facebook - @WeAreQuilt

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Traveling like a grownup can be overwhelming. Pavia Rosati had the world class intel everyone wanted.  But she and her Fathom co-founder thought they needed a business savvy partner. Except they never found Mr/Ms. right. So they stepped up their game and did it themselves. 

In Pavia's money story you will learn:

“You need to think about time as money when you travel. You don’t have an unlimited time budget and so make sure you are spending your time as wisely as possible.”

That's right. When we started this business about nine years ago, we didn't really have the money locked up tight. We didn't have a full proof business plan. We had ideas for how to make money, but we had the vision and we had the drive, and at a certain point, we stopped talking about it and we're like, okay, we're just going to do it. In hindsight, it would have been better if we had also had somebody who was kind of the money yin to our content and experience yang.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there any business plan? Any revenue projection plan?

Pavia Rosati:
There were. There were. We didn't think about this at all. Digital media is, it's a moving target right now right. We had plans for where the money would come from, but when the industry changes, and the ad market changes, and people's online behaviors change, you need to be able to adjust your business models accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened specifically? What was your original plan, and then what happened?

Pavia Rosati:
The original plan, we actually did have somebody who was going to come on board as the business partner. At the end, she said, you know what, I just can't take the risk. I don't have the entrepreneurial courage that it takes to go out and do this. What's funny, when you launch a business, it's like dating. Everybody has you, oh, you should talk to this person. Oh, you should talk to that person. I swear, in the first year of the business, I had coffee with someone else, and someone new.

We ultimately made the decision of, you know what, if the alternative is not to do this, or to wait until we find the right person, the moment might be too late, so let's just do this and get this out there, and then see where we end up.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened? You didn't have a business partner. What actually happened in terms of the business part of Fathom.

Pavia Rosati:
The business part of Fathom is [Gerilyn 00:05:13] and myself doing the business. It means that we're the ones who hustle for the deals. It means that we're the ones who close these deals. It means that we've discovered our inner sales people, and we've been able to do it because we've been able to stay afloat, and we've been able to keep doing this. But, the question is, had we had somebody who was a serious, serious business person, where could we have been, and how much more could we have done, and how much more money would we have made?

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Can you think of any examples where you felt the real lack of that?

Pavia Rosati:
There was a project that we were pitching that we were very excited about working on. The person that I was negotiating with said, here's my budget. I said, hmm. Yeah, I was thinking three times that. I thought, oh God, this is when it all falls apart. Instead, he came back and he said, okay, that's fine. That was a great, very lucrative project for us.

One of the times when it really would have been helpful to have some money and some business muscle behind us was a few years ago when we launched these fantastic honeymoon guides to Italy. I love the fact that we cover the whole world. The question we get again and again from people who are seasoned travelers, or people who never travel, is help me figure out my trip to Italy. So we came up with these fantastic itineraries, three days, in Florence, Venice, Rome, and the Amalfi Coast. Think of it as a concierge in your pocket. These guides are amazing. Anybody who found them and downloaded them was like, Oh my God, this is perfect. One small guide and my whole trip is planned.

Had we had somebody, however, with a lot more marketing experience, we could have gotten the word out about these things out to the thousands and tens of thousands of travelers who would have wanted these for their summer vacations to Italy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing the work but you're not getting the attention that you want. How have you solved that, or have you?

Pavia Rosati:
Finding an audience is the ongoing struggle that anybody who is creating content, is struggling with all the time. There is no perfect answer to this. Getting our great work to the people who need it and who are looking for the information, is the constant struggle that we face, but that we're also not alone in facing. I mean, the internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything, but guess what, everything is too much. There's too much noise. We always say that we do everything we do at Fathom to really cut through the clutter. To instead of giving you everything, we give you a really tight edit so that it's not overwhelming. So that you can read one article, and base your Caribbean trip just on that one article.

In Pavia’s money lesson you will learn:

“Nothing makes me more sad than being in a foreign country and seeing everybody sitting at the table looking at their iPhones. ”

Even though you're driven to do something, imagine what will happen if you don't have a safety net. Works for your plan B, works for your plan C. Have all of that stuff figured out, take the time to do that and then dive in. You will end up on much more solid ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your safety net was relying on each other and figuring it out, and having the courage to act as your own advocate. As in the case when you just mentioned where you got triple what they wanted to pay, because you stood your ground.

Pavia Rosati:
Yes. Correct. Because we stood our ground. Listen, we've lost out on things also. It's not all, we've lost out on things because we are smaller. The challenge and the reality of the ad market place right now online is a lot of companies are just after millions and millions of eyeballs, and worried more about the numbers than the quality of what they're getting. We deliver on quality, but what we sometimes lose out on is quantity.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's something that I truly believe is evolving. I think we're seeing with a lot of, for example, the influencer market. People are moving away from, or at least paying more attention to, the micro-influencers, and paying less attention to or, maybe being more realistic, about these giant influencers. The stickiness is not always the same as a micro audience that might be interested in say a podcast, or a blog or whatever, that's very niche. I think there's a lot more interest in that because the value of quality and engagement. You probably have a very engaged audience.

Pavia Rosati:
We do. We have a very engaged audience. The only criticism we ever hear is, I wanted to go to fill in the blank on the most remote place on earth, and you don't have a full guide yet. Work faster.

In Pavia's everyday money tip you will learn:

“The internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything but guess what? Everything is too much. There is too much noise.”

Correct. Of course my tip is going to be about money. You're absolutely right. You need to think of time as money when you travel. You don't have an unlimited time budget. So make sure that you're spending your time as wisely as possible. When it comes to money, there are really simple things that you can do before your trip to make sure that you have things taken care of. Number one, not every place you go is going to have the most reliable ATM machine that's working where you need it to work. So maybe, plan ahead and have some cash available, if you're traveling in a foreign currency, to get you through the first day or two, until you can get to an ATM or a bank where you can change money.

Similarly, plan your tips in advance. Have a couple of euros in your pocket. Have pesos in your pocket so that you don't have to be fumbling for change when you want to give a porter a tip, or worse, give someone a dollar bill, because there's nothing that's worse than handing someone a $3 tip, then they would have to go to the bank to change that? Terrible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We sometimes, in America, assume that everyone really wants dollars, and sometimes they don't.

Pavia Rosati:
That hasn't been the case since like 1960. I have to tell this to my Dad all the time. He's like, I'll leave $100. I'm like no papa, they don't want to have to go to the bank to change some money. No. Other things to think about in terms of time and money when you're traveling is, invest in the things that are going to make your trip better. Invest in really good suitcase, so that you're sure that your stuff arrive safely. When you are thinking about auto insurance, know before hand, what does your credit card cover, what doesn't it cover. When you're getting on a plane, know what your points are. Does your credit card give you access to lounges at the airports? If so, which one.

I keep a file in my contacts of every lounge of the airports that I go to that I know which I have access to, through my credit card.



Financial Grownup tip number one:

Sometimes, the perfect partner is really late. Pavia and her partner were searching for a business oriented partner to add, and they never found them. They had to step up and just do it themselves. It wasn't their plan, it wasn't their ideal, and it still may change if they find the right match. And yeah, things might have been better if they did find that match earlier, or not. But just like you have to live your life even if you haven't found the perfect, let's say, romantic partner. It's the same with business. You got to keep moving. The right business partner may have not been there for the startup phase, but maybe there's someone that's right for them now that the company is more mature. They're looking, but they want the right fit, and that's a good thing.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

If you are a workaholic, yes, I'm looking in the mirror. One chapter that I loved in the book, travel anywhere and avoid being a tourists, was about the coolest coworking spaces. Here's the things everyone. Work should not keep you from traveling. But that doesn't mean that everyone really, especially maybe you're an entrepreneur, you have your own business, or you have a job with a lot of responsibility. Maybe you really can't take the time off that you feel that you need, or that people outside are telling you that you need. Maybe it doesn't make sense to put up walls between work and life and to go on this unplugged vacation. Maybe, you're going to enjoy your vacation more if you can do let's say, three days of vacation, and one day in a coworking space in that foreign city, or that other city that's not where you work that you're going on vacation with. Maybe that's actually going to help you stay on top of things, enjoy things more, focus on the days that you are "on vacation", but you can do work occasionally in that city and remain tied to your business in a ways that gives you comfort. So that when you come home, you aren't in catch up mode, and also frankly, before you leave.

Episode Links:

Pavia's Book Travel Anywhere (And Avoid Being a Tourist)

Check out Pavia's website -

www.FathomAway.com

Follow Pavia!

• Instagram - @FathomWayToGo and @PaviaNYC

• Pinterest - @FathomWayToGo

• Twitter - @FathomWayToGo

• Facebook - @FathomWayToGo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The bosses behind design website "Of a Kind", the podcast “A Few Things” and the new book “Work Wife” share their experience finally being offered the investor funding they fought for-  and then walking away from the deal. Plus a preview of their new book “Work Wives".

In Erica and Claire's money story you will learn:

• They started trying to raise money when they started their retail business in 2010

• Their business, Of A Kind, is an e-commerce site that is focused primarily fashion and design

• How they were finally able to get some money In 2013 for their business

• Why Claire and Erica didn't like the terms of the agreement.

• How they finally decided that the money wasn't what they wanted after all

In Erica and Claire’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's so important to listen to your gut. If it's something you thought you wanted but then decided it wasn't, it's okay to change your mind and walk away

• Why what they thought they wanted would only bring new and different problems

In Erica and Claire's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why Erica feels strongly about having multiple accounts that have money automatically being put into each account

• When Claire and her husband combined finances they both started taking the same percentage of their paychecks to contribute to shared account.

In My Take you will learn:

• How the benefits of friendships in business can also be platonic relationships between the opposite sex

• Why it's important to read all the paperwork like Erica and Claire did

Episode Links:

Erica and Claire's book Work Wife

Check out Erica and Claire's website -

www.OfAKinda.com

Follow Erica and Claire!

• Instagram - @OfAKind

• LinkedIn - @OfAKind

• Pinterest - @OfAKind

• Twitter - @OfAKind

• Facebook - @OfAKind

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Claire Mazur:
For so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money, and I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us.

Erica Cerulo:
We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office I think up to two full days a week.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So when someone offers you the money, maybe for a business you've been building, that you've been asking for, begging for, searching for, for so long, and you finally get that offer. Well, it's a pretty good bet you'll say, "Thank you." And cash that check. But what if you have a bad gut feeling? What if there are things in the terms that you didn't really think would bother you, but then they really do? Nothing's ever free, and an investor money always comes with some strings. It's just a question of how tied up you're willing to be in those strings. And like many big life decisions, we often don't know until we are there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. New listeners, thank you for checking out the podcast. We bring you high achievers who share money stories that had big impacts on their lives, along with the lessons that they have learned, so we all get to benefit from their experiences. Today we are doing something extra special. We have two guests, Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You may already know their design website Of a Kind and their podcast A Few Things, and most recently their best selling, newly released book Work Wife, appropriately titled because these best friends are just that. And that friendship proved priceless when they had to make a key decision for their business in its startup time in search of cash. Here are Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Erica Cerulo and Claire Mazur. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcasts.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Said in unison.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect.

Erica Cerulo:
That's very us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very you. You guys are work wives. I'm gonna ask you to each say hi and say your names so everybody knows which voice is which of you.

Claire Mazur:
This is Claire Mazur, and I hope that this introduction helps people distinguish us because we're told all the time that our voices sound exactly alike.

Erica Cerulo:
At least on a podcast. This is Erica Cerulo.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. You guys are on in part to talk about, we have a great money story and all those good things, but congratulations on your latest together project appropriately titled Work Wife, and I should tell everyone this comes after other things which include a business called Of A Kind, which you still control, we can talk about how that's become a bigger venture, a podcast called A Few Things which I am a new and very dedicated fan of, and a newsletter called 10 things. So there's a lot going on guys.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. We have been at this not for over nine years, and the business has been around for eight years and some change, and we just keep adding on new projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys met in college, I should said?

Erica Cerulo:
Yes. It was when I was 19 and Claire was 18. So still teenagers.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys have a long history together, and that helps you deal with what we're gonna talk about as your money story, which was kind of a tough situation as young business women. Tell us your money story.

Claire Mazur:
We were a couple of years into the business, we had been trying to raise money, kind of the entire life of the business at that point. We started the business in 2010, which was a time of very frothy VC funding. It seemed like left, right and center, everybody was raising a million dollars or more very easily, and we had been struggling to do that, I think in part because we had a more traditional retail business than a lot of the [crosstalk 00:04:12].

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain what Of A Kind is actually for people that don't know.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah, absolutely. So Of A Kind is an e-commerce site. We are primarily fashion and design, so we sell clothes, accessories, jewelry, also personal care and paper goods from emerging designers, primarily in the United States. So it's really based on discovery and Erica and my love of discovering new designers and new makers, and telling the story behind the pieces. So we have a very party content arm to the business and we have since day one always told the story of all of the makers whose pieces are on the site.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So you guys go to raise money and the good news is there is a lot of money out there.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah.

Erica Cerulo:
And the bad news is we were really bad at raising it.

Claire Mazur:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did have opportunity to get funded.

Erica Cerulo:
We did. In about 2012 or 2013 we had gone out to investors and had conversations with a few angel investors who were very enthusiastic about our business and made us an, put a deal sheet in front of us, a term sheet in front of us, and what we were aiming for this whole time, right? To raise funding, to be able to grow the business more aggressively, and to pursue marketing and other growth opportunities that we hadn't been able to pursue to date because we were really scrappy and cash strapped.

Erica Cerulo:
In looking at their term sheet and in thinking about what this would mean for the business, we came to this realization that we didn't want the terms. We didn't want all of the strings that came with this money. They wanted too much of the company, they wanted to be very involved in the day to day. One of the investors wanted to be in the office at least one full day a week, I think up to two full days a week, and while we valued their input, we didn't want them to be involved in the business in that capacity.

Erica Cerulo:
So we were sort of in this place where we were like, well what do we do here? This is what we thought we wanted, but here we are and it's not what we want.

Claire Mazur:
It took a minute for us to really get there because for so long we had just been trying to get anybody to say that yes, they would give us money. And I don't think we'd really considered that we might not want to take it when somebody finally offered it to us. And really, the options at that point were to walk away, to try to find money from somebody else, or to take the leap and say, okay, we're gonna take the money and hope it goes well. And what we realized, and what we were really fortunate to be able to do at that point was we had just started to be cash flow positive. So we were able to say no to them because we realized, okay, if we were cash flow positive last month we know we can do it again next month, and we know we can continue to just sort of put money back into the business. And we were able to pull together a little bit of friends and family funding to close the delta, because obviously we weren't making as much money as these investors were offering us. But it felt like absolutely the right decision at the time.

Claire Mazur:
It was a while ago, but I can't even remember how much discussion went into it. I think we really knew at the end of the day, especially when we got that report from our accountants that showed us how much money we were making we were like, okay, this is the right decision.

Erica Cerulo:
I also, I remember having the conversation, we were in South by Southwest, we were sitting in the Airbnb that we were renting, and basically coming to the realization that this wasn't money that we wanted, and that we would find another way, and that the thing that would impact the business at that point most, more than having those significantly bigger marketing budget or more than having the other things that we really wanted to be able to spend this money on was another head count and being able to at higher, I think at this point it woulda been our second employee so it woulda been Claire and I, we had a third employee, and this would be our sort of fourth person on the team. And that, that would allow Claire and I to be able to focus more on some of the bigger picture things that we weren't really able to think about at that point. And that, that could be the difference in the future of the company maybe more than the money would.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was the conversation like? Did you just say, we're not gonna do this and walk away? Or was there an attempt to negotiate?

Erica Cerulo:
We had definitely attempted to negotiate with them for sure. And those were all sort of conversations leading up to this point. But this was just sort of where they had firmly come down and said, no, this is what it would need to be for us to be involved. And so it was sort of like the final offering that we were walking away from.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you guys feel? What was your private conversation like at this point?

Claire Mazur:
I think we felt really triumphant in a way. It was honestly one of the best feelings we'd had about the business up to that point because it wasn't just that we had done what we knew was the right thing and was frankly kind of the hard thing, but we were able to do it because we had some success in the business. And that empowerment was really thrilling for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that story?

Claire Mazur:
There are several, but I think the one for me is to listen to your gut. And to know that just because something is something you thought you wanted, if it doesn't feel right it's probably not right.

Erica Cerulo:
It demonstrated to us that with money there come trade offs. We thought this was the answer to our questions and the answer to our problems and we realized that actually this would introduce new and different problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. It is complicated. And people think that something, that's kind of a metaphor for bigger statement that people do think that money is going to be the answer to so many things in life. And it's really not. It sometimes just leads to different challenges.

Erica Cerulo:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of challenges, let's give everyone solutions. Let's talk about everyday money tips.

Erica Cerulo:
Well, basically my money solution is that feel strongly about having multiple different accounts that I'm automatically putting a percentage of each paycheck into. So I know that one account is for savings, and I don't touch it. And a percentage of my income just gets dropped there. Another account is for day to day necessities like rent and groceries and those things that are sort of fixed costs and that I can budget toward. And the third is sort of a slush fund and that's where dinners out and shoes or whatever else come from. And I think it's nice for me to know that, that particular account is just sort of a play fund. It is for me to do with what I do. And so I don't set a firm budget around dining out or entertainment or any of those things, but I know that I have this fixed amount of money to play with for all of those things combined.

Bobbi Rebell:
So broader categories. And Claire, sticking to the theme of bank accounts, you also have an everyday money tip.

Claire Mazur:
Yeah. So when it came time for my husband and I to combine finances we used something that I know I learned from somebody else, and I think it might have been from Suze Orman, but we basically, no matter how much either of us is making, and obviously that number changes and has changed over the years, we both take the same percentage of our paycheck and contribute it to a shared amount. And then whatever's remaining we each have in our individual accounts. And we both have really different spending habits and that has made our lives so much easier when it comes to dealing with shared expenses and not shared expenses. So I never worry about if he's going to judge me for buying clothes or expensive tickets somewhere or whatever or a fancy gift for a friend of mine whose not his friend, he doesn't have to worry about it, he knows it's coming from my private account.

Claire Mazur:
And when it comes to our shared account it's so much easier to have these conversations about how and what we're spending on because we know that these are shared expenses and we're making those decisions together. And I never have to worry about if he's spending his money in a way that I approve of or don't approve of. And I think that has eliminated so much potential tension from our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it's about communicating when you need to and also giving yourselves permission not to communicate on some things because you don't need to and that can be a relief as well. You guys communicate pretty well as work wives so much so that you've written a book. And this is becoming a whole buzz word in the community these days. I don't think we realize how many big companies have been led by these female power house teams. Tell us a little bit more.

Claire Mazur:
Erica and I had been business partners for nine years now and friends for 17 years?

Erica Cerulo:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Claire Mazur:
And had always known that we were very proud of our partnership and had always taken that really seriously. In fact, when we were fundraising we would often hear from investors, they would say, I think I'm gonna pass, it's not right for me, but I gotta tell you, I'm really impressed by your partnership. And I remember that really sticking with us and being like, oh, I think what we have here is unique. And it is unique, but what we realized in looking around was that there are a ton of other women doing this. And there are a ton of women who are really benefiting from this sort of basic tenants of female friendship like emotional intimacy and vulnerability and transparency in a business environment. So what we did for the book is we interviewed 14 other duos and trios of women about what their partnerships look like and what the friendships underneath those partnerships look like.

Claire Mazur:
And what we came with was this really strong belief in the power of female friendship to drive successful businesses and this understanding that when you value female friendship in the workplace you start to see other characteristics contributing to corporate culture that weren't there before. So these ideas of vulnerability in the workplace become a much bigger facet, and that can really change corporate culture ultimately.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think it's important to understand a lot of these relationships did not start on day one. Some did, but most did not start on day one with, let's just meet as strangers and start a business. There's usually a history and a bond before that. And a lot of work that goes into preparing to go into business together. I mean, one of the tips that you give that I think makes so much sense is to do something like take a trip together and see how you react when something doesn't go as planned. Because these are complicated relationships. 'Cause they're real friendships but they're real businesses.

Erica Cerulo:
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's a piece of advice that Haley [Barna 00:13:54] who is one of the founders of BirchBox and is now a venture capitalist gave for potential business partners or potential work wives who don't have that previous experience of working together, who maybe were friends first and haven't been in an office together and aren't 100% sure of how the other interacts in super stressful situations in a work environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm gonna give you the last word Claire.

Claire Mazur:
We are so excited about the book and we hope that it spreads the idea of friendship in the workplace, not just for women but for men too. We think it's really important to think about the way that personal and the professional mesh with each other in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's wrap it up with you can just tell us where we can out more about you guys, your book Work Wife, your business Of a Kind, your podcast A Few Things, your newsletter Ten Things, and everything else. I feel like you guys have a lot more in your back pocket that we're gonna be hearing from you soon.

Erica Cerulo:
You can find it on our website ofakind.com where you can also buy the book Work Wife or you can buy it any place books are sold. You can find us on Instagram, @ofakind, and the book, @workwifehq and yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica Cerulo, Claire Mazur, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Claire Mazur:
Thank you so much.

Erica Cerulo:
Thank you so much Bobbi, have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about work besties. Financial Grownup tip number one, Erica and Claire's book is focused on female friendship and business partnership and has a lot of specifics that are unique to women, combining business and friendship that both women and men can learn a lot from. But I also wanna add that while the relationships are absolutely different there can also be a lot of value in work husbands or work wife relationships of opposite sexes. And just to confirm, we are talking platonic here. That can also be really supportive at work. Add to that what I would call your work squad which can mean a group of work friends that can be supportive and be true friends, business partners, and industry allies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, read all that paperwork. It's boring but you have to do it. Erica and Claire did it. They thought they had the deal they really wanted. But then, when they took the time, and thankfully they did, to read all the terms, not just how much money they were getting, read past the headline my friends, they made an unexpected decision. Make sure you pay attention and consider all the information, not just the ones with the dollar signs in front of them. And this goes of course for any binding contract.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a work wife? A work bestie? Have you ever turned down something that you thought you wanted and really fought for? I wanna talk about, I wanna hear about your experiences. Follow me and DM me on all the socials, Instagram, bobbirebell1, Twitter, bobbirebell, or drop us an email at hello@financialgrownup.com, and tell me what you thought about this episode. And tell me about your experiences. And please, if you're not already subscribed, do so, we have some incredible guests lined up for spring, and I can't wait to share them with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely pick up Work Wife, it will not disappoint, and check out Of a Kind. So much cool stuff there. Big thanks to Erica and Claire for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.