Changing your financial grownup priorities with George Grombacher
Changing your financial grownup priorities with George Grombacher
 

Episode Description: Be Your Own CFO author and LifeBlood podcast host George Grombacher shares the experiences that pushed him to pivot on his priorities and advice on how we can be ready to make changes as well.

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 03:59 - Prioritizing going through different life stages

  • 6:21 - Reevaluating your priorities

  • 07:38 - Does reevaluating your priorities make you more willing to take risks?

  • 08:56 - Being thoughtful in your investing is not the same as being conservative

  • 12:00 - Our behaviors as human beings are predictable and maddening all at the same time

  • 15:15 - If you write down your goals, your odds of achieving them are greater

George’s Bio:

George Grombacher has been a Financial Advisor for over 20 years, he’s been named to Investopedia’s list of the Top 100 Financial Advisors in the United States many years running. He’s the Founder and Chief Community Officer of Money Alignment Academy, President of Financial Consulting Professionals, Host of the LifeBlood podcast, and author of Be Your Own CFO: A Businesslike Approach to Your Personal Finances.

 
 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grown up either" and new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code "holiday", H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

George Grombacher:

What are my priorities? How do I value my time? Who do I want to spend it with? What should I really be spending my money on? What should I be letting inside my head and focusing my attention on? What is most important to me? It's my sense of urgency has really gone up.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

How have your financial priorities changed in the last couple of years? What impact has the pandemic had on the decisions that you make with your money and also with how you spend your time? Are you more careful and conservative with your investing and also your financial planning? Maybe you want a bigger emergency fund, for example, or maybe you actually feel compelled to take more risk because well, you have less of a feeling of security, so why not just go for it? Who knows what's going to happen, right?

Just some of the conversation topics I absolutely loved with my guest this week, George Grombacher. I've had the privilege of having been on his LifeBlood podcast. I also recently picked up his new book, Be Your Own CFO. Highly recommend, by the way. It's a great way to get organized as we head into the new year and really be deliberate about how you think of your own personal finances. George also has a financial wellness company called the Money Alignment Academy. You're going to love this interview. Here is George Grombacher.

George Grombacher, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

George Grombacher:

I am a financial grownup and thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

You are definitely a financial grownup and congratulations not only on the success of your long-running podcast, the LifeBlood podcast, but you also have a book called Be Your Own CFO: A Businesslike Approach to Your Personal Finances, which I did enjoy reading. So congratulations on all of that.

George Grombacher:

Well, thank you for that as well. They are, money for better, for worse is part of our lives, and it's a passion of mine and it's fun to do the podcast, been fun to do it for the last five years. And it was fun to finally put pen to paper and write my first book.

Bobbi Rebell:

Full disclosure, we are recording this as I am recovering from COVID, so I look a little hellacious on camera, but we're just going to put it out there anyway. That also is a segue to talking about all the different things that we sort of prioritize when we do get sick, whether it's with COVID or something else, or we go through different life stages. George, you're going through some big changes in your life as well. So we're going to just pivot this conversation awkwardly as it is and talk about priorities. George, what do you have to say about priorities as we as a society move out of COVID, and you also have some news to share with the world?

George Grombacher:

Yeah. Well, I don't want to bury the lead. My wife and I have two kids, two boys, six and three, and we have a third on the way. She will be a little girl, so she's currently a little girl.

Bobbi Rebell:

She.

George Grombacher:

Anyway, so that that's the most exciting thing. And we were joking that we as a family are screwing up the math because four human beings it's a little easier to move to the world. Five, it'll be a little more challenging. You reassured me that it's going to be just fine. So I think that COVID taught us a lot of things and it was terrible for a lot of people, most people, and I'm grateful that we are slowly but surely coming out of it. Hopefully, one day we will be out of it completely. But who knows? I think that for a lot of us, it gave us the opportunity to question things.

We as a society, were questioning how we police our communities, how and where we work, how we educate our kids, all of these things. We had the Great Resignation. Small business was impacted, really everything. And so it was an opportunity for us. For me, I recognized I need to be stronger and more resilient. I need to be physically stronger, mentally stronger, financially stronger, emotionally stronger. How can I do these things? And so I think it's just been a really unique opportunity. It's caused me to really evaluate, reevaluate, change my thinking on what is most important to me because I can just go and make decisions about things easily, yes or no, chocolate or vanilla kind of a thing.

But if I'm going to make big decisions, I want to make sure that I'm making good decisions and decisions that are as aligned as possible with the things that I think are most important to me. The more aligned I can be in my decision-making from if I'm going to go out and buy a coffee this morning, or if I'm going to take a vacation this year, or if I can invest in Bitcoin or whatever, that's for the better. So that's something that I've been spending a lot of time thinking about.

Bobbi Rebell:

Do you feel that these sort of reevaluation of priorities, does it make you more risk averse or does it make you more likely to take risks? And what's your advice to people in terms of that?

George Grombacher:

For me, it's hastened a lot of my decision-making. I'm 44 years old and when I started the pandemic, I felt like I was 35 or something like that. But another thing that happened in 2020 was my brother passed away and it was just before the pandemic.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh, I'm so sorry.

George Grombacher:

Thank you. That combined with everything else that we went through as families and communities and countries and a world, for me, I've always lived with a sense of urgency. I've always been a hard-working focused person, but it just changed. It was almost like a little bit of an awakening. Be like, "Okay, I've got these young kids, so there's that." My brother passes away and it's like, "Wow." And it's obvious that we're all going to die and I'm not afraid of that. But it was just a recognition as about as close as it gets that we do die and that it's time to start living on our terms. It's time to start living the lives that we want to live. And the only way to know how you want to live or live how you want is to know how you want to live.

And so that goes back to what are my priorities? How do I value my time? Who do I want to spend it with? What should I really be spending my money on? What should I be letting inside my head and focusing my attention on? What is most important to me? It's my sense of urgency has really, really gone up.

Bobbi Rebell:

And so does that make you more willing to take risks because you do know it's now?

George Grombacher:

I failed to answer your question on that one. Yes, it has changed my thinking about risk. When I was in my twenties, I made a lot of really, really risky investments. I invested in a lot of small company stocks and certainly was a lot riskier with perhaps my behavior. I think from a business perspective and the way that I'm choosing to write books or do things that I've been putting off, that's somewhat risky. With my investing, I think I have a better understanding of what the timeframes are, knowing that my kids got 14, 15 years to be investing. So wanting to make sure that I'm making more thoughtful investments, not necessarily conservative investments, but just more thoughtful.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tell me more about that. I want to distinguish, you said something interesting, not necessarily more conservative, but more... Because this is a big money tip for our listeners. It's being thoughtful in terms of your investing is not the same as being conservative. So that's a big money tip. Explain more about that.

George Grombacher:

Yeah. So there's a sliding scale or a spectrum, a continuum of my knowledge on different investments. I was at zero when it came to cryptocurrency. We could just use Bitcoin. Five years ago, I didn't even know what it was. Today, I'm probably at 70% out of 100, but I did end up buying Bitcoin when it dropped to $30,000. I believed that to have been a wise investment. Today, it's at $16,000, but I'm not looking at that and saying, "That was a bad decision to buy at 30." Now, am I buying more at 16? No, I'm not right now because I just have no idea.

So my approach to that was I believe that when it was at 30, that cryptocurrency, specifically Bitcoin, is a quality investment that is now on sale from where it was at $70,000 per coin down to 30. Where it's at from 16, well, I already made my investment into it. I put the money forward into that I had allocated based on my budget and my situation. So I'm not second guessing and saying, "I'm going to sell." But I'm also not in a position where I'm going to buy. So based on the information that is available to me at the time that I bought in where I am today, I'm just going to hold that investment. That's a specific one.

But that could be used for ETF investing if you are somebody who's getting started. Or it could be, "Should I be investing money in a small company?" If I'm a very wealthy person and I have additional monies, "How do I decide based on my current situation, what I should be invested in?" So risk, I think, is best addressed and best approached by measuring how educated and how knowledgeable I am on a specific area or area of investing, and then making assessments and decisions based on that. That doesn't mean I need to be an expert, but I need to be able to get the information and the resources.

So the answer could be, "I'm going to start working with an investment advisor" or "I'm going to just get more resources, get more education and more knowledge."

Bobbi Rebell:

And how has that evolved through the pandemic? Do you feel that you're more thoughtful with your investing? Do you think that people in general approach investing very differently because you mentioned crypto, we had NFTs, we had meme stocks, all of these sort of big trends that were talked about so much during the pandemic. Is the attitude towards them and should the attitude towards them be changing now? Especially with even the stock market one might say could be considered to be on sale. And I'm not giving anyone investment advice there, but it is lower than it's been.

George Grombacher:

Right yeah, theoretically speaking, it certainly is. Our behaviors as human beings are predictable and maddening all at the same time. You looked at when we were kind of midway through the pandemic, if we can think of ourselves at the end of it, personal savings rate had gone up, credit card debt had gone down and so we were becoming more conservative. Now, we're reading about how credit card debt is again spiking and we're sort of relapsing or going back to whatever our normal is, reverting to the mean. So in terms of investing, I assume that that means that the amount of capital that's going into investing is probably going down as the stock market goes down. I'm sure that the amount of money that's flowing into cryptocurrency is also going way down, which maybe that's a good idea, maybe it's not.

The thing about percentages and large numbers is that has very little to do with me as an individual and when you read them, it's kind of hard for us to get our brands around. So going back to what is most important, again to me, based on my situation and what it is that I'm trying to accomplish, I think that the more focused we can get and be on those fundamentals, although it's pretty boring and it's somewhat unsophisticated, the reality is, I just read about this, some recent survey said 77% of Americans are stressed out about money or we have anxiety about money. I don't have any anxiety about money. Am I thrilled that my investment in Bitcoin is now half of what it was when I bought it? No, I'm not thrilled about it, but it doesn't make me anxious because that's not money that I need to spend today.

So for the three quarters of Americans that are stressed about money, that to me suggests that we are not doing a good job thinking about our risk because that suggests we do not have financial peace of mind. That suggests that these are people that don't have cash saved up in the form of some kind of an emergency fund, however much that ought to be for your personal situation.

I don't think that there's ever a way to inoculate ourselves from financial stress or risk or anything like that. But pulling things back, taking a big step back and saying, "Okay, what would it take for me to not have to worry about money anymore?" So let me get to that spot and then it's, "Okay, I'm here. Now, where should I be deploying additional monies?" Is it in a place that I'm maybe going to be a little bit less comfortable with, but there's risk, so that means I'm going to get a potential greater return? I think that that's probably a pretty good time to be thinking about that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Going to your book a little bit, which we haven't had a chance to talk about, which is Be Your Own CFO: A Businesslike Approach to Your Personal Finances. One of the anecdotes I really enjoyed was you talked about a study, which they asked Harvard MBA students who had set goals and who had not, and then they followed them and the ones that set goals, and it seems obvious when I say this, but the ones that set goals were more likely to accomplish those goals. Tell us about that and how that applies to your view on how financial grownups can live their lives optimally.

George Grombacher:

Yeah. Every human being on earth understands "I should have goals", but so few of us actually do have goals, and this is me. It took me until I was 35 years old to actually take out a pen and write down goals. Amazing. But I intellectually knew I should have goals and I should write them down. That Harvard study, it's very famous. You just, if you're interested in looking at it, Bobbi summed it up. It just gives evidence. If you actually think about goals and then you go through the exercise of writing them down, your chances, your percentages, your odds of achieving them are exponentially increased.

But okay, classic behavior gap, I know that, but I don't do it. Same as "I should pay myself first". Same as "I should stay out of credit card debt". Same as "I should diversify my investing". It all goes back to that really basic stuff and it's like beating a dead horse. I talk about it so often, but the reason that it's so important is because so few of us actually do it, and this was myself too, this was also me. I've made every stupid mistake that people can probably make with money. Fortunately, I've made some good ones too, but I think that's just all too common.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. Where can people follow up with you and learn more about all the things that you're doing, George?

George Grombacher:

I am all over the internet just like everybody else these days. LinkedIn's a great place to find me. You can go to georgegrombacher.com to learn more about me. Got a financial wellness company called Money Alignment Academy. Moneyalignmentacademy.com. There are probably other websites as well, but just entering George Grombacher into your favorite internet search engine should spit out different places to find me. And of course you can pick up the book at Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grownup friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up and all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity.

For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M / cleanmymac, and that is all one word.

I promise you, you will be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

What goals are you setting as we head into the new year? I want to hear from you, so please DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Also, I want to send you bonus content, free, free, free. So sign up for my newsletter. You can do so right in the show notes. You can also do it on my website, bobbirebell.com. And if you have money tips that you want to share with the community, I want to hear them. Email me at hello@financialgrownup.com. Maybe we'll include it in an upcoming newsletter.

It is the holiday season. Guess what the perfect gift might be for a favorite podcast host? Hint, hint, it's free. You guessed it, a simple review on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen or even just telling your friends about the podcast, maybe sharing a screenshot of it on social. Tag me so I know to look for it and I can share it too. And in all seriousness, I am so grateful to those of you who do help me get the word out and who do participate by signing up for my newsletter and just being in touch. It means a lot to me. Take a minute, write a review, do that screenshot. Thank you. I really appreciate all of your support.

Also appreciate George Grombacher for helping us all be financial grownups. Thanks everyone.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club.

Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop Grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanTemplate
4 Life changing money tips for when life changes with Stacy Francis
4 Life changing money tips for when life changes with Stacy Francis
 

Episode Description: Stuff happens. Francis Financial CEO Stacy Francis shares her best advice to be prepared for the unpredictable twists and turns life throws at us. 

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 04:18 - Introducing Stacy Francis

  • 04:45 - Stacy’s wealth management firm

  • 05:55 - Stacy’s 1st tip for when life changes

  • 08:03 - Tangible things, you can do ahead of negotiations

  • 10:07 - Amy Cuddy Power Pose

  • 11:02 - Stacy’s 2nd tip for when life changes

  • 12:43 - Stacy’s 3rd tip for when life changes

  • 13:51 - Stacy’s 4th tip for when life changes

  • 15:01 - How do I use this as a tool? Money is just a tool.


Stacy’s Bio:

Stacy Francis is the President and CEO of Francis Financial, a boutique wealth management and divorce financial planning firm. Stacy is a nationally recognized financial expert and is one of twenty of the nation’s leading wealth managers on CNBC’s Digital Financial Advisor Council, a member of the Forbes Finance Council as well as an expert contributor for The Wall Street Journal. Stacy’s expertise is highlighted in over 200 media publications, articles, bylined pieces and quotes. Stacy is the host of Financially Ever After, a podcast focusing on women, money and divorce. She is also the author of the Financial Help for Widows - A Complete Resource Guide and the white paper, Unveiling the Unspoken Truth: The Financial Challenges Women Face During and After Divorce.

 
 

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:

I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard. And I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic, and I just want something that will get them to smile.

So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top-selling Generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to well, yourself. Just use code HOLIDAY, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.

Stacy Francis:

Negotiating and pretending that you are negotiating for your dearest, closest friend. What would you do for her? What would you ask for for him, that maybe you wouldn't do for yourself? I will tell you, I did this once. At my first job, I got my bonus and I was not happy. And it took so much courage, but I marched back in there to my boss's office, and in the kindest way just said, "This tells me I'm not doing a good job. Is that the message that I should be listening for?" And all of a sudden, the bonus got doubled. The whole time I kept on thinking about, "Okay, I'm negotiating for my mom."

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we've got this.

I like to think of every episode of this podcast as a very grownup one, but this, this episode, my friends, is definitely one that you'll appreciate if you are living, or at least working towards, living a financial grown up life. And that's because we're going to be talking about change.

Now, let's be real. We're often not prepared for the unexpected, because, well, we were not expecting those changes. Let's be realistic. But we can at least be prepared with ideas of people to reach out to who can help us in those times. And that's a lot of being a grownup. It's not always having the answers, it's having the tools defined where you can get the answers.

That is the perfect segue to my guest this week. She is Stacey Francis, CEO of Francis Financial, a boutique wealth management planning firm. Now, if her name is familiar, you've probably seen Stacy Francis quoted in over 200 media publications. She is also the host of the Financially Ever After podcast and the author of Financial Help for Widows.

Stacy is also one of 20 of the nation's leading wealth managers on CNBC's Digital Financial Advisors Council, a member of the Forbes Finance Council, and an expert contributor to the Wall Street Journal. Let's just say I could go on. She's a heavy header.

Okay. In our interview, Stacy shares four tips for when life changes, along with her unique perspective on how we can manage even when we don't have all of our ducks in a row, because really, when do we? Right? My personal highlight is a unique negotiation strategy that I can't wait to try out myself and hear how it goes for you guys. Here is Stacy Francis.

Stacey Francis, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stacy Francis:

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I'm happy that you're joining us. You're going to be helping us go through something that is so relevant to the financial grownup community, and that is going through different life changes. You brought with you four life-changing money tips for when life changes, which is something by the way you specialize in your business. Can you tell us a little bit briefly about that before we get into your four money tips?

Stacy Francis:

Yeah. I started my firm, we're an independent, fee-only wealth management firm. I started two decades ago. I can't believe it's been that long, but I've been having a lot of fun and I think that's why time flies. We primarily work with people who are having significant transitions: end of a relationship, potentially some type of inheritance, change to their current job situation, both positive and negative events. But they're often times where they need to reach out for some support, some guidance, because they know that the decisions they're making are going to impact the rest of their life.

Bobbi Rebell:

And those changes, as we go through often very different stages of our life, we have big changes, whether it's getting out of college, whether it's entering into a relationship like a marriage that has financial components and sometimes these don't last. Things change when we have children, things change sometimes when we lose a loved one. So there's all these kinds of things, even just a new job, switching careers, pivoting, more people these days finding themselves in a layoff situation. Things change. It's a wake up call, but it's also an opportunity, in many ways, so I'm really excited about these four tips that you brought.

The first one is about knowing your worth and asking for it. It's particularly for women, if we're being honest, but it's also important for everyone to be aware of this. The tip, and it's just so on point, but we don't think of it this way, it's negotiate for somebody that you love dearly. Reframing it that way, it just makes so much sense, and yet, I never thought of it.

Yeah. There are some people that their superpower is negotiation and standing up for themselves and their worth. But I'll tell you, not too many people have that superpower. And so, the rest of us, this is something that we really have to work on. And the best tip I can ever give someone is that when you're standing up for yourself, when you're advocating for yourself, and that's whether it's the end of a relationship, if you're going through a dissolution to your marriage or your relationship, if you unfortunately lost your spouse due to a death, or you're negotiating for yourself in a new job, or unfortunately, maybe a severance, negotiating and pretending that you are negotiating for your dearest, closest friend. What would you do for her? What would you ask for, for him that maybe you wouldn't do for yourself? And the more prepared that you can be with what you want and what you need, the better you're going to be as you go into that process.

And I will tell you, I did this once. At my first job, I got my bonus and I was not happy. And it took so much courage, but I marched back in there to my boss's office, and in the kindest way just said, "This tells me I'm not doing a good job. Is that the message that I should be listening for?" And all of a sudden, the bonus got doubled. The whole time I kept on thinking about, "Okay, I'm negotiating for my mom," who was the most special person to me. And that's what helped me remove it from myself.

Bobbi Rebell:

Are there any specific things, tangible things, that people can do ahead of going into a negotiation, like things they can write down to be better prepared?

Stacy Francis:

If it's the dissolution of a relationship, understanding what you actually have and understanding what the assets are, the liabilities are, and what you want. Which assets do you want? What type of income? Let's say you are eligible for child support or spousal support, in some states we call it maintenance. What is your goal? And knowing what you want needs to be based on what your expenses are, right? So the more knowledge you have, the more in the power you are going to be.

If you're in a job situation, one of the most important things you can do is do your research. What do other individuals, other folks, make in a similar position? Talk to your colleagues, talk to others in the field. Go on monster.com. There are quite a few great resources where you can see exactly someone of your experience in that type of position should be making. And the more prepared, the more research you have with your amazing list of accomplishments that you've written down, the better your outcome is going to be.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it also, I would think, helps you remove some of the emotion. It's hard not to take it personally, but at the same time, if you have facts, that at least can manage your perspective.

Stacy Francis:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that many people, myself included, going in to ask for something for myself feels selfish. But when I'm going in and I'm advocating for someone who has been able to achieve X, Y, and Z and help the company in X, Y, and Z way, it's a very different way to show up. It's a very different way to show up.

And I'll just give you a little tiny, this is more of a kind of fun tip, but before you ever have any difficult conversation, you just stand there with your arms as high as you can, your legs out as much as possible for one minute, and that will help you be in your power so that you can show up as your best way. I will tell you, I've used this my entire life, from if it's a difficult conversation or a speaking engagement, whatever, boy does it work. And if you're in a situation where you can't actually do that physically, studies have showed even those people who are paraplegics, who cannot move their body, if you imagine yourself getting big and doing that just in your mind for one minute, it has the same effect.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah. And that's the Amy Cuddy power pose, got it.

Stacy Francis:

Hugely popular.

Bobbi Rebell:

It may have been around before her, but people can look up her TED talk to learn more about that. Let's go to the tip number two, and that is don't be afraid to ask for help.

Stacy Francis:

Don't be afraid to ask for help. If you think about it, if I need to have heart surgery, I'm going to go to a heart surgeon, right? Who would ever expect me to know how to do that, let alone operate on myself? And so, it's the same thing, especially when you have a change in your circumstances that has a positive on the financial side or potentially a negative. It's a really important time, and you need to make sure that you're making really good decisions.

And how do you do that? Well, you do that by getting the right people on your team. And so, that could be a financial advisor. And if it's a end of a marriage or a relationship, you need to think about maybe a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, someone who has a specialty in understanding how things should be split and what you are eligible for. If your spouse has passed away, you need to work with someone who understands the probate and estate process. If you're receiving an inheritance, someone who understands what we call Suddenly Money Syndrome, which can be very frightening to receive money. People can feel very upset about receiving this money because they've lost someone that they've really loved. And if it's a job situation, someone who can help you model out, "If I take this new job, what's it going to look like, taking into account bonus, restricted stock options, all the benefits?" So just making sure that when you are hiring your team, you're hiring someone who knows your situation inside and out.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. The third thing, the third money tip is, the more you can save for retirement the earlier on, the easier your life will be down the line. This is something, especially when you deal with couples and relationships that break up, or even work relationships, you lose a job, we often think the other person is doing that. We work for a company, we think there's a pension that's going to carry us for life, or the 401k, just doing the minimum to get the match is enough, or we think our spouse is saving, or whatever. It's not always. We shouldn't make that assumption.

Stacy Francis:

We shouldn't make that assumption. Often, we feel like we're doing everything we should be doing, and that's not necessarily the case. And so, really looking at and peeling back the layers. "Am I maxing out my 401k? Am I getting the full match? Am I getting all the benefits that I'm entitled to through my company? Would they possibly be contributing to a health savings account for me? Am I using their Flex Spending Account that is available or their Dependent Daycare Account?" Often you'll see even benefits for those that might be adopting a child. These are all things that more information is more knowledge, and it helps you make better financial decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:

My favorite tip is the last one, number four, analyze your current spending habits and ask yourself if they're in line with our values. And I think this is important because we just live our lives day-by-day. We spend what we need to as we go through the day, and we don't always adhere to the master plan that we have in our head, and then we don't always get to the goals that are important to us because we've got this sort of money drip, drip, drip going through the daily grind.

Stacy Francis:

You've got it. And actually, what I have to say is, think back to Covid. And for all of us, our spending was reduced significantly.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah.

Stacy Francis:

And boy, as our spending rebounded, we added in all those expenses we weren't paying for. But it's a great opportunity to think back to then, of "What were the things that you truly missed that were really important to you? What were the things that didn't make a big impact on your life?" And go from there, and write down that list of "things I missed" and "things that don't really mean a lot to me," because that is one of the most wonderful ways where you can actually be conscientious about where your money is going.

For a lot of people, it's not about the Gucci bag, it's about travel, it's about experiences. So understand where you fall on that spectrum, because money is not going to make you happy. What you do with it is what is going to make you happy. So understanding, "How do I use this as a tool? Money is just a tool. How do I use it to give myself and my loved ones a life that we are happy with and a life that is truly financially secure?" I feel like this, of all of them, to be honest, is the most important tip, and that's part of the reason why I kind of left it to the last.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes. Save the best for last. Thank you so much. Tell us more about where we can learn more about Francis Financial. You also have a podcast and a book. And the podcast, I was on, so I hope everyone will subscribe both to this podcast if you're not already, it's Financially Ever After, which is the best title ever, by the way.

Stacy Francis:

You've got it, Financially Ever After. And it's all about changes in our life, and what you need to do to make sure that you're healthy and happy and wealthy financially ever after. And you can go to our website, www.francisfinancial.com. We have some really important white papers that we've written that will help you if you are in a transition, if you're at the end of a relationship, we have great tips for you there and a wonderful book that you can download free of charge. So please do go there, and if there's any way we can help you, we also will perform what's called a Stock EKRA Analysis to really see the portfolio you have, is it the right portfolio for you now based on the changes that you have in your life?

Bobbi Rebell:

And life is always changing, so it's important to be prepared. And the next best thing, if you're not prepared, is to take action with someone like Stacy. So thank you so much for joining us.

Stacy Francis:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grownup friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out, for good reason, because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating.

A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop, just kind of hoping that things would get better, and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called Macpaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files, so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I, R-E-B-E-L-L.comc/cleanmymac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

That negotiating tip about pretending that you're negotiating for someone you care deeply about, priceless, and it really does work. So what resonated with you? Be in touch by DMing me on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and if you enjoyed this podcast, please help me out by sharing it with others, a simple screen grab and social share, super easy and means the world to me. Please tag me if you do, so that I can share it. And thank you as well.

And for more free resources and relevant information, please get on my newsletter list. There's a link in the show notes, or you can just go to my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I, R-E-B-E-L-L .com, and look for the newsletter signup button. I would love to be a resource for any events you have coming up. You can learn more on my website under the Work with Me tab.

And don't forget to learn more about Stacy Francis. Links to her are right in the show notes. A big thanks, of course, to Stacy Francis for helping us all be financial grownups. Bye, everyone.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobby Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanTemplate
Financial love letters for grownups with Jennifer Lee
Financial love letters for grownups with Jennifer Lee
 

Episode Description: We all go through changes in our financial grownup lives. It might be marriage, having children, becoming an empty nester, divorce, changing careers or retiring. Be prepared or learn how to manage the different seasons of life with Squeeze the Juice author and financial advisor Jennifer Lee.

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Intro

  • 03:10 - Introducing Jennifer Lee

  • 04:32 - Financial Love Letters

  • 07:37 - A financial love letter is personal and practical

  • 08:35 - The difference between a will and a financial love letter

  • 10:54 - When should you give your letter to your loved ones?

  • 12:44 - What a financial love letter can accomplish for you in life.

  • 14:05 - Jennifer’s resources


Jennifer’s Bio:

Jennifer is the founder of Modern-Wealth, a Sarasota-based financial advising firm helping individuals going through major live events successfully gain control of their finances. She has been in the financial services industry for 26 years; 44 years if you count tagging along with her father to his office. Throughout the years of working with clients, Jennifer noticed the growing importance of communicating one’s values to the most important people in their lives. This was the driving force to write jer first book, “Squeeze the Juice: Live With Purpose, then Leave a Legacy.”

 
 

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Jennifer!

Follow Bobbi!


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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out, for good reason, because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating.

A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called Clean My Mac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and Clean My Mac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get Clean My Mac. To get that 10% of Clean My Mac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/cleanmymac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

Jennifer Lee:

I like to ask people to consider if this is the last conversation that you have with your son or the last conversation you have with your spouse, what do they need to know? And it's a lot, especially if you're the moneyed person. If you're the person who's responsible for handling the finances, all the passwords, where things are, running the kids around, there are things that you want to communicate to your spouse that they don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

It is no secret, my friends, that money can cause family friction like nothing else, and yet, despite all the talk about how we should sit down and talk about our financial hopes and dreams with our loved ones, so much is unsaid because it's just really hard. Sometimes it's easier to write it down in the form of a financial love letter to our family.

My guest, Jennifer Lee, is the founder of Modern Wealth. She is also the author of Squeeze the Juice, a book about getting everything out of life, and an advocate for financial love letters, which she will explain is not the same as a will, but really a special thing to do for your family and, honestly, for yourself here is Jennifer Lee.

Jennifer Lee, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennifer Lee:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm excited to talk to you about financial love letters but first I just want to say a little bit about what you do. You're the founder of Modern Wealth, you're a financial advisor, and you really work with a lot of people that are in transitions, and we'll talk about why love letters are so important for this, but tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jennifer Lee:

Sure. I'm an advisor who's been in the business, gosh, going on 27 years. Absolutely love what I do. I actually probably started in the business when I was a little kid going to work with my father who was also in the industry. I absolutely love what I do and I recently wrote a book called Squeeze the Juice: Live Your Life and Then Leave a Legacy, and really the whole crux of this is about taking care of your people and squeezing the juice out of life.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your book, Squeeze the Juice, talks about leaving a legacy of your life, but a lot of people have trouble talking about money with their loved ones. It can be uncomfortable, maybe people worry about expectations or disappointments and so on. You advocate something called a financial love letter. Tell us what a financial love letter is.

Jennifer Lee:

Sure. Writing your family love letter, your financial love letter, is what I think is the most critical component of your life's work. It can include ... It's really an ethical will. It does not replace a will or legal documents, but it's an ethical will and it's communicating your values to your loved ones, whether it be your niece or nephew, your spouse, your business partner. It's communicating what you want to make sure happens with regard to your assets, with regard to your values, and what you want to make sure they understand.

Bobbi Rebell:

We know we have to write a financial love letter. Is there any specific time in your life when you should be writing this and do you even tell people that this is happening? Do you discuss it with people? Is there a meeting or is this a solo activity?

Jennifer Lee:

That's an excellent question and I think it's very personal. Most people I find aren't comfortable writing their family love letters, so we do workshops and we try to educate people about what it is and why it's important.

This came about for me and became a very personal situation when my father was ill with a brain tumor and it was really a five month timeframe where he had left to live and to communicate everything that he wanted to say, his values, what his assets were, what his expectations of us were as children, what my mother would have. There's so many things that you want to be able to communicate, and so I like to ask people to consider if this is the last conversation that you have with your son or the last conversation you have with your spouse, what do they need to know? And it's a lot, especially if you're the moneyed person. If you're the person who's responsible for handling the finances, all the passwords where things are, running the kids around, there are things that you want to communicate to your spouse that they don't necessarily know.

Now, will they get by without it? Yes, they'll get by and they'll probably struggle through it a little bit. But wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to communicate what your expectations are of your children, what you hope for them in a marriage, what you expect and hope for them in a career and in contributing to their community.

Writing your family love letter is very, very personal and it means something different to everyone. When we do a talk and I address this, people say, "Oh my gosh, I've got to write it," or they say, "I need my husband to write a love letter," or, "I need my spouse to write a love letter," and it's not just about the love part, it's about values and assets and how you're going to replace income. It's the financial components as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

It sounds like there's a lot going in there, it's not just, "This is how I feel about everyone. I loved you all." It's also kind of a to-do list of, "Here's what you need to do now that I'm not here and here's where everything is and here's the passports." It's very practical as well.

Jennifer Lee:

Yes, it absolutely is. It's not a two paragraph letter about how you feel about the person, but I think it's important to start that way. "This is what you've contributed to my life. This is what I've learned from you." Those tiny little sentences of significance go a long way if you're not here. But then there's the practical components, and that's really what we're going for here from a financial perspective. Is there life insurance? Who are your trusted advisors? My father was the very first person in our family who ever was cremated and he asked for that. You have to communicate those things if that's in fact what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:

This is separate from a will. Can you explain the difference? Nothing is legally binding in here. These are just your wishes.

Jennifer Lee:

You're absolutely right. This is separate and apart from your legal documents. This does not replace a legal document, but this is that ethical will. This is the communication that really supports the documents that you have that are legal.

Bobbi Rebell:

Who should write one? Should a young person be writing one or is this just something as you get older, because if you're younger, maybe you don't have all these complications in your life. What's your advice there? Is there any timeframe where you say, "This is the time to really do it?" Just like there's a certain time when you really do need life insurance and those kind of milestone moments?

Jennifer Lee:

With regard to the financial components and writing a love letter to make sure your family is taken care of, I think the criteria is who depends on you? Is there someone who depends on you for welfare and income and emotional support? If there is, then there's probably a lot to say.

Bobbi Rebell:

How is this different then, I understand it's not legally binding, but I feel like people might listen to this and say, "Well, that should really just be in the will, right?"

Jennifer Lee:

Sure. I'm not certain. I have several attorney colleagues and I'm not sure they would tolerate the longevity of this type of letter and I think it's very personal. In your will, they're going to communicate the distribution of assets, they're going to communicate how things are structured from a transfer perspective, but I don't necessarily think they're going to talk about what your values are and your expectations.

For example, in my love letter it says, "You can have all the income and earnings that you need to maintain the same lifestyle to which we become accustomed," but I don't want my spouse to be buying a Lamborghini or beach house and depleting the principle. I want them to live on the earnings and then pass the balance to the nieces and nephews.

Bobbi Rebell:

What happens if you write a financial love letter and you share it with your relatives? Is there a danger that you may not get the reaction that you're hoping for? Have you seen that ever happen?

Jennifer Lee:

I think that that's a valid point and a valid concern, particularly if you have multiple children and they have their own opinions and expectations. Maybe you want to keep that close to the breast until later when they're able to receive it. As far as the practicality with a spouse, I think you can go over the financial components with your advisor and with the spouse, that's okay, you want to make sure that they really understand. Honestly, every couple, there's typically one person who's more what I call the moneyed spouse. That's the person who handles the finances and understands it and has a comfort level with it. The other spouse should be participating at least on an annual basis with the advisor and with the money spouse to really get a sense of where everything is and what the replacement of income would look like and life without that other party.

Bobbi Rebell:

You have a lot of clients where they're going through financial transitions and they're just not comfortable talking about money. Can a financial love letter and the exercise of writing it be a tool to get someone to maybe engage more with their financial future?

Jennifer Lee:

I think it's a terrific start. It's a terrific way to open the door. In my book that's really what I wanted to accomplish. I tell the story about my father's love letter and how it just happened rather quickly, and then I end explaining and going through mine. I'll talk about one section of the love letter and then I'll explain why I included that information and what it means, just to break it down so that people can wrap their arms around what it might look like for them.

Bobbi Rebell:

For anyone that has a hard time talking about money, what can a financial love letter accomplish for them in life?

Jennifer Lee:

I think writing your personal financial love letter and considering what your resources and your assets mean to you can have more significance. Writing a family love letter pulls all of those components together and allows you to have them in a context that makes you more astute as to why you have life insurance, whether you're paying down your mortgage or you're accumulating more assets, whether you're taking care of your kids' education and what that looks like. I think it's a good starting point and people aren't afraid of it.

Bobbi Rebell:

It sounds like it helps people really come to terms with how much they really have. Very often we think our lives are simpler than they are.

Jennifer Lee:

I think you're absolutely right. A lot of times we'll reach clients in their fifties in what I call crunch time. They wake up and have a little bit of panic because they've been living their life, they've been taking care of their children, they've been doing things, maybe they have multiple jobs and multiple 401k plans, but they haven't really sat down to consider what their structure is going to be and what their retirement is going to be, so it is kind of eye-opening.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much. You have some resources for our listeners. Can you share with us where they can get them and where they can be in touch with you?

Jennifer Lee:

Absolutely. I have two websites. Modern-wealth.com is my regular financial wealth site, and then I have squeezethejuicebook.com. That is a page that talks about writing your love letter, that talks about the book. You can download a template so you can fill in the blank, a Mad Libs version of writing a love letter. A lot of times gentlemen like to start with that and then they'll expand from it. Then there are also some worksheets that are available to download so that you can complete some pieces on your own.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much, Jennifer Lee.

Jennifer Lee:

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life, by helping your almost adults kids become everyday money smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share with all of you. First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media, please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people, so I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

My friends, what would be in your financial love letter? Would you share it with loved ones or leave it for some time in the future? I would love to hear what you think. DM me and let me know on Instagram @bobbirebell1. Also follow me on Instagram and if you let me know that you are a podcast listener, I will follow you back. We're now posting highlights and sneak peaks of the podcast on Instagram.

I also could really use your help. If you like this podcast, of course, tell a friend, I'm really trying to grow it. Please rate and review it wherever you listen, and of course share it. Just take a screen grab, it's super easy, post it on social, and tag me so that I can see it, and thank you, and spread the word.

I do this podcast totally free for you guys. I hope that you enjoy it. I hope you get value out of it. It makes me so happy when I hear from you. I also have full transcripts and show notes on my website, bobbirebell.com. My only ask is that you help me grow the community. One way to do that is just be part of it. Subscribe to my newsletter. There's a link in the show notes right on my website under the podcast tab.

A reminder, if you're looking for gifts for the people you care about in your life and that does include clients, please consider gifting them my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. We have amazing bulk discounts available. Just go to my website, click on the books tab for how to get that. Some of you may not fully know how hard it is for small authors like myself, but these book sales mean a lot to me. Even a single book purchase can move the needle. I just want you guys to know how much I appreciate your support and especially when you write me with kind words or say something on social, it's really special and it really gets me. I just thank you. I appreciate it.

Of course, thank you to Jennifer Lee of Modern Wealth for helping us all be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobby Rebel on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanTemplate
The first 3 steps to launching financial grownup careers with Next Great Step’s Beth Hendler-Grunt
The first 3 steps to launching financial grownup careers with Next Great Step’s Beth Hendler-Grunt
 

Episode Description: Getting started in life is the ultimate financial grownup challenge. Beth Hendler-Grunt shares her best strategies to get started and succeed. 

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 04:03 - Introducing Beth Hendler-Grunt

  • 05:34 - You want to get paid what you're worth, so you need to put yourself in the shoes of your employer

  • 06:46 - We need to make sure that our kids not only have the right background and skill set, but they also have the story

  • 07:39 - Your story is like an elevator pitch

  • 09:18 - How technology has changed in the job market

  • 10:55 - Maxing out your 401k, IRA, and Roth

  • 12:51 - Hope is not a strategy. If you have certain financial and career goals, you need to have a step-by-step plan to get there.


Beth’s Bio:

Beth Hendler-Grunt is the founder and president of Next Great Step. She is a dynamic leader, advisor, and facilitator who has extensive experience consulting with startups, Fortune 500 firms, universities, and individuals. She founded Next Great Step with the sole focus of guiding college students and recent grads to help them to land the job they deserve. Beth leverages techniques and insights of guiding CEOs and brings those secrets to students to help them stand out and get the job. She has enabled hundreds of clients to achieve success where 90% of clients land the job of their choice. Her clients have landed jobs at Amazon, Yelp, JP Morgan, EY, and Major League Baseball to name a few. Beth t is the author of “The Next Great Step: The Parents’ Guide to Launching Your New Grad into A Career”.

 
 

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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  3. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.


Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity.


For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop, just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics.


I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. Bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. That is all one word. I promise you you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

I have a strategy, it's a real simple one. It's called 10 and 10. Write down the names of 10 people who have a job that you want and 10 companies that are of interest to you based on what you've seen in the news, what you've researched, and you want to reach out to those people at these companies, ideally fellow alumni because they tend to be the most friendly and the most willing to talk to you and ask them for 15 minutes of their time. Tell me how you got there. Tell me what skills you needed to be successful in the job. Do you have any advice for me? Anyone else that you'd recommend that I speak with? That strategic networking alone is so much more productive than just blindly applying and throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what happens.


Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this. Who doesn't remember the hunt for their first job as a grownup? I'm talking about our first job where it's not just a job for extra cash while in school or something like that. I mean the first job where this was what you did, it was your primary focus. You weren't still in school and while you may have still been living with your parents, the expectation was that you were out of childhood and this job mattered.


I remember feeling like everyone else had it so easy. Recruiters came to my college and all the kids with those fancy finance majors, they got multiple offers and off they went. Problem solved. Tied up with a bow. I of course, languished the summer after graduation trying to break into TV news. I can only imagine the stress my parents were feeling. Something we don't always appreciate until we are parents ourselves. I had the college education but nothing was happening. Now as a parent myself, I was, until recently, in the same shoes cheering on my recent grad, but not able to do much to help them land that first grown up job.


My guest, Beth Hendler-Grunt is here to help with a mix of specific steps that we can take and some tough love too for both the next generation, and to be clear, as parents, her company, The Next Great Step focuses on guiding college students and recent grads to help them land the job they deserve, the job they've been working towards all those years. Her new book also aptly titled The Next Great Step is a roadmap for parents and almost adults that is getting results. Here is Beth Hendler-Grunt. Beth Hendler-Grunt, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Thanks so much for having me.


Bobbi Rebell:

Congratulations on your book, The Next Great Step: the Parents' Guide to Launching Your New Grad into a Career. I love this book so much. It reminds me of a career version of Launching Financial Grownups because you focus on what the next generation or emerging adults can do when they get out of school to get a job. It's a little more complicated than it was... Well, maybe a lot more complicated than it was when our generation, and I am referencing Generation X for anyone out there, when we were first looking for jobs, we had different challenges. The first thing that you talk about is you want to get paid what you're worth, so you need to put yourself in the shoes of your employer. Talk to me about that and how it's relevant to emerging adults, to almost adults and how their parents should approach that.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Yeah, absolutely and thanks so much for having me on. I think what we see with a generation who's coming out of school and so many young adults is there's this feeling that most of their life, they've been told how great they are and everybody gets a trophy, and so, there's this expectation that things will work out for them and that just because they went to a good school and they got the grades, which is what we told them to do, that they will get the job that they deserve or their dream job or a job that pays them money that they feel like should really enable them to do things that they want.


What we see is that sometimes, they're more focused on how the job is great for them versus how they're able to help an employer. If they really want to get paid what they believe that they're worth, they need to actually take a step back and think about what's important to the employer. How do I add value to them in a way that helps them to achieve their goals and their metrics versus coming in and telling someone, "Well, this job would be great for me." As much as that might be a nice thing, most employers really want it to be great for them.


One of the ways that they can do that is really thinking about putting yourself in not only their shoes, but what are the skills that you have that can really add value to that company, that manager, that organization that enables not only you to help leverage the skills that you have, but help that company achieve something. I think sometimes young adults often skip the step. I think parents as well. I'll speak for myself too. I am also a parent of a recent grad and a parent of a college student so I understand. I'm living this real time and often will tell our kids, "Just go for it," or, "You deserve this," or, "I'm going to introduce you to a friend," but we need to make sure that our kids not only have the right background and skill set, but they also have the story and the clarity on how they talk about themselves and the skills they have to offer.


It's not just that you're responsible and trustworthy. It's something like you know how to research, you're analytical, you're a great writer. All these things that are really concrete skills that show someone what you can do. You have to have a story behind it. It can't just be, "Well, I know how to do this." Well, tell me how you did it or tell me how you've done that in a class, in a project, in a part-time job, so I know how you can really help us in our organization with the skillset that you have.


Bobbi Rebell:

One thing you talk about in the book is that it's like an elevator pitch. You even say that parents should push their kids to practice it out loud, which is something I think could get some pushback though. What do you do about that?


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Oh yeah, it's funny, and we just had some clients yesterday and one of our big parts of our program is that you are practicing what you're saying out loud, and that can be very uncomfortable because on paper, it looks great. You have this great story or this great resume or this great explanation of tell me about yourself, but saying it can be very different from having this perfectly worded content because a lot of times, as I tell young adults, people don't read and they don't listen. You need to have a really clear, concise story about what you want them to know about you, and you need to be able to say it in a way that exudes confidence that you know what you're saying, you know where you're going and what you want them to know. The more you practice that, the better that you'll get at it and the more you'll be comfortable at it.


Bobbi Rebell:

It's hard because a lot of young people are so used to technology being the way that they communicate and they're uncomfortable with a lot of the more traditional human ways that people communicate through phone calls and follow-ups maybe, trying to meet with people in-person and then again, following up. That's another thing that's generational, but still, especially with the job market shifting as it is, could be helpful for parents to teach their kids about.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Yeah, it's funny, I always go through this concept, the same thing you said, has the job market changed from when someone like you and I look for a job or Gen Z or Gen X to now? In some ways, the technology I think makes it a little confusing where there's a lot more reliance on it, thinking that if I just apply to 50 or 100 jobs and it's a numbers game and it'll work out, but there're some things that I feel like are very much the same from years ago that are very effective, such as picking up the phone and calling someone and expressing interest in a role or asking to be curious saying, "Like you, I went to the same university. I had a similar major. I'd really like to learn more about your role and how you got there."


That ability to network and talk, that is still incredibly effective today. People want to hire people that they know or have met and that they trust and forging that relationship and building a relationship through targeted networking can be incredibly effective and can be the main differentiator as to why a company chooses you over someone else.


Bobbi Rebell:

Curiosity and flattery can take you far. I do want to move on to the second thing, and that is talking about maxing out your 401k from day one on your job. Setting aside the maximum contribution you can. This is something that gets lost in all the noise with all of the acronyms out there with HSA and FSA and 401K and IRA and Roth and all that. People get confused, but there're certain things that are more important than others because they can be supercharged by what their employer is doing, and I don't know that emerging adults always know the difference of what to prioritize.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of overwhelm and sometimes, just good financial aptitude and skills are the same way. It's not always taught about how to find a job. It's not always taught about how to manage your money in a way that really sets you up for the long term. I was very fortunate. When I came out of school, I did have a job working for AT&T as a salesperson selling phones and phone equipment, but something that my father said to me, he said right off the bat, "You should take the max that you can put into 401k," so at the time it was 16% and 6% of that, the company matched it, so that's free money. It depends. I don't think people realize that, but put it away and try to live on your salary less the 16%. It will make a huge difference down the road.


Bobbi Rebell:

It's important for parents to not assume that their kids are getting that information or that push from the company, from the HR department. Very often, they're just sent a link to a website and not necessarily specifically getting the information from a human who will encourage them to actually put the money in the 401K and make sure it's invested. It's important for parents and even peers. If you have a friend that got a new job, don't be afraid to bring it up to them and say, "Hey, I did this. You should really look into what your company's doing," because having these discussions can really be impactful for people.


The third thing, I love this. "Hope is not a strategy. If you have certain financial and career goals, you need to have a step by step plan to get there." A lot of people really feel that if you manifest it, if you focus and just have a positive attitude, good things will happen. That's absolutely important as part of a plan because it is hard to stay motivated. I know we've all experienced young people who get frustrated because it is really tough when you get out there, but you got to do more than hope, right?


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Absolutely. Hope is good and being positive is good, but you also need to take action. It's the same person who says, "Well, I'll look for the job tomorrow," or, "I'll start that next week," and you can't just assume. I think there's a lot of faith, and I understand this. A lot of young adults went to college and was promised on the campus tour that when they finished, that companies would come find them and look for them because of their schooling and their grades. It doesn't quite happen the way that you think.


It's much more competitive and you can't just hope that someone will figure out how amazing you are without saying anything or putting out information about yourself or reaching out to others, and you need a plan. I think this job search process is very overwhelming, it's intimidating and many are not sure how to navigate it, or they have one setback or one application and they hear nothing. They get ghosted. They're like, "Oh, forget it. I'm not good. They don't want me." What we think is it's a process. You can't hold all your hopes on, "I have this one person who said they will talk to me," or, "One potential job that I saw and I thought my credentials really matched."


Do you really have a process of how you're going about it? What are you doing today? What are you doing tomorrow? Next week? What's the list of people? I have a strategy, it's a real simple one. It's called 10 and 10. Write down the names of 10 people who have a job that you want and 10 companies that are of interest to you based on what you've seen in the news, what you've researched, and you want to reach out to those people at these companies, ideally fellow alumni because they tend to be the most friendly and the most willing to talk to you, and ask them for 15 minutes of their time.


"Tell me how you got there. Tell me what skills you needed to be successful in the job. Do you have any advice for me? Anyone else that you'd recommend that I speak with?" That strategic networking alone is so much more productive than just blindly applying and throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what happens.


Bobbi Rebell:

The follow-up is also important there because then, what happens next when the person spends 15 minutes with you? A lot of young people might say, "Well, they'll call me if something becomes available."


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

This is probably the most frustrating thing for me. There's this feeling of, "Well, I don't want to be a pest. I don't want to bother them." I said, "First of all, if you don't send a thank you note, that's already a negative in my book that you didn't appreciate their time, that you're not as interested," so you must follow up. You must send a thank you note and I'm all about, you have to keep following up until you get an answer. My suggestion is you follow up every seven days via email and find things that are in the news or say, "Oh, I read this and I thought of you. Just wanted to see where you are in the process until they give you an answer," because it's the ones who are persistent and have the grit to keep following up, those are the ones who tend to get hired versus those who retreat and say, "Oh, I'll just wait." You have to assert yourself in this process.


Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much. Tell me where can our listeners find out more about you and The Next Great Step?


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Sure, they can find out about us at our website nextgreatstep.com. If you're interested in a complimentary consultation, just click the little button that says, "Let's talk." We welcome the opportunity to speak with you or student, recent grad, to see how we can support you. If you're interested also, we just wrote the new book, The Next Great Step: The Parents' Guide to Launching Your New Grad into a Career. It's available on Amazon, Walmart, Target, everywhere you can buy a book and it'll really give you the step by step process if you want to work with your young adult to help them be successful.


Bobbi Rebell:

It's a great book. I whipped through it, I learned a lot and a great companion to launching financial grownups. Thank you so much.


Beth Hendler-Grunt:

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.


Bobbi Rebell:

A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.


By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.


One takeaway from my interview with Beth is that parents or friends who want to take control want to make introductions and that's all good and so well meaning, but Beth warrants that we also need to make sure that our young adults are actually ready. They will often nod and say thank you and they're thankful, but the minute we step away and assume they will take it away from there, they don't sometimes or they don't even know what they're not doing.


Take the time to go through rehearsing things like the elevator pitch and then also, while you should of course not be writing their emails and so on, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a look and maybe making a few suggestions. Of course, be careful with your tone there. It's that time of the year, my friends. Now I need your help. When you are looking for gifts for people that you care about in your life and that includes by the way your clients, please consider gifting them my book Launching Financial Grownups. We have bulk discounts available. Just go to my website and click on the books tab for how to get those discounts.


Some of you may not know this, but book sales seem so simple. They're actually really hard to come by and even a single book purchase can move the needle for someone like me. Thank you in advance as a small author and please post a photo of you with the book on social if you do buy a copy. It will make my day. It will also help me promote the book and get the word out, and I appreciate that and I promise I will thank you and I will share it as well. Of course, I also am so thankful to Beth Hendler-Grunt and The Next Great Step for helping us all be financial grownups.


Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.


The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts.


Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. Thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial grownups.


 
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Invisible Money Roadblocks with Finance for the People author Paco De Leon
Invisible Money Roadblocks with Finance for the People author Paco De Leon
 

Episode Description:

There are countless invisible money-related roadblocks that we don't see that are keeping us from reaching our money goals. . Paco De Leon, who heads the Hell Yeah Group financial advisory firm helps us find and fix them. 

A little sneak peek into Paco de Leon’s episode!

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 04:42 - Paco’s bio

  • 06:49 - External things that affect our money goals.

  • 09:52 - We are being groomed to consume.

  • 11:05 - Tips to create social media bumpers.

  • 12:20 - Internal things that affect our money goals.

  • 14:42 - Subconscious beliefs

  • 16:32 - We are emotional when it comes to money.


Paco De Leon Bio:

Paco de Leon is an author, illustrator, and musician. She is the founder of The Hell Yeah Group, a financial firm dedicated to inspiring creatives to engage with their personal and business finances, and Hell Yeah, Bookkeeping, a bookkeeping agency for creative businesses. Her career experiences in banking, business consulting, financial planning, and wealth management have informed her financial philosophies. She is a TED speaker and her work has been published or featured in The New York Times, Bloomberg, Vice, TIME, other publications, and on NPR. She lives in Los Angeles with her wife.

 
 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating.

A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link, it is BobbiRebell.com/CleanMyMac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/CleanMyMac. And that is all one word. I promise you you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Paco de Leon:

People were constantly not acting in their best interest regardless of how much money they were making. And what I realized was we're all basically just kind of weird about money.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Do you get frustrated with yourself when you aren't where you want to be when it comes to your personal money situation? I know I do. Well, we all do have a responsibility for ourselves. The truth is, a lot of our financial lives are kind of out of our control. I know it seems strange, right? As unfair as that is, and again, often it's completely not our fault, it's still our problem to fix or to manage, at least for now. So flagging these sort of systemic issues and helping us with solutions is just one of the many things that I adore about today's guest, Paco de Leon they head up The Hell Yeah Group, a financial firm, which is dedicated to inspiring creatives to engage with their personal business and finances. And she is also the author of the book, Finance for the People, which we're going to talk about as well.

So in our conversation, Paco and I discuss how things totally out of our control, like inflation, the cost of healthcare and education as well as social media. Yeah, social media can sabotage our best financial intentions and then also things that are natural to us as humans can be roadblocks, like our desire to connect with each other and if we're being honest, to compare ourselves to each other, that can all impact our money decisions and brace yourself. Paco does not mince words when they roll into a reality check mode. Here is Finance for the People's Paco de Leon.

Paco de Leon, author of Finance for the People and head of The Hell Yeah Group. You are a Financial Grownup, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.

Paco de Leon:

Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, we are excited for our conversation Before we get into our main topic, which is going to be invisible things about money that are easy to miss and you have an incredible list that you've prepared for us of both internal and external things that impact our ability to save and impact our lives. Tell us a little bit about you, the book and your business.

Paco de Leon:

Sure. I studied finance and economics back in college because my time was running out and all these other factors. I have immigrant parents, so I felt like I needed to choose something practical so that I would always have a job. I got my start working as a collections agent at Bank of America, if you could believe it. Don't worry, I was not an evil collector. I did my best to help as many people as I could. And I've had all sorts of different financial services jobs. I've worked as a small business consultant where I basically learned how to do bookkeeping, how to run businesses day to day, and I've worked as a wealth manager. Those really are the jobs that helped me kind of understand how this world of money works.

I got this really interesting perspective on people's psychology and the thing that I kept seeing was that people were constantly not acting in their best interest regardless of how much money they were making. And what I realized was were all basically just kind of weird about money. And when I say weird about money, I mean we all feel a certain way, we all have different beliefs, we have cognitive biases, we have all these stories that we've grown up with. And those stories tend to shape how we behave day to day with our finances. As you know, day to day adds up to week to week, month to month, year to year, all of those actions compound.

Really, I've just been trying to explore and understand how I can have these conversations so that people are aware of all these things impacting their finances. And the thing that I've learned is that so much of what we do in our lives is interconnected. So the way that you are with money is the way you can be with other things in your life. So your relationship with money impacts all the other aspects of your life. And that's really what is so exciting to me is that once people start to find their agency in this area of their life is kind of like an overlay, like a stencil. They can just overlay that on other areas of their life. And I'm hopelessly optimistic, I believe everybody has limitless potential to change.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's start with the external things that affect our money goals because we often feel ashamed and we blame ourselves for some of the setbacks that we have with money. And there are absolutely, we have to have some responsibility for ourselves, but we also should recognize that some things simply are systemic. So let's talk about some of those. One of the external ones I should say that that is top of mind these days are things like inflation, which we're hearing so much about. Talk to us about that.

Paco de Leon:

Yeah, I mean inflation is definitely in the headlines nonstop right now because it's very real. Even people who are avoiding the media are going to the grocery store and they're realizing that the salmon that they were buying or the wheat bread that they were buying is becoming more expensive and there's nothing that they can do to have a larger impact on the price of things going up. So definitely that, but not just in our day to day items. I mean the cost of healthcare in the United States is continuing to go up and so is the cost of education. So, when you look at all these factors, inflation and the general rising price of things, that is an invisible factor that is impacting how much money you need to spend, which directly impacts how much money you can save and invest.

Bobbi Rebell:

We obviously can't change the fact that the prices are going up, whether healthcare, inflation, the grocery store and so on. What's your advice to people then to push back to mitigate the damage that's being done to our budgets and our financial wellbeing when it comes to these external factors we just talked about?

Paco de Leon:

Right. Personal finance is all about balancing that personal finance equation. It's however much you earn minus how much you're spending and how much you're saving and investing. You really just have to take the time to understand how those three things are interacting with one another. I really hate sometimes to have to give this advice to people, but sometimes you just have to really examine the position that you're in, where you're working, the company that you're working for, what is the possibility for growth. Because different companies have different cultures. If you're working at a warehouse where there's a lot of turnover, you might not have an opportunity for your income to really grow there. Whereas if you're working somewhere else, like a small business and the boss, they really care about your personal development, you might have more opportunity to take on more responsibility.

So I think having your eyes wide open about where you are and your trajectory for earning more is really one way to look at it. And the other way is to really hone in on your expenses, figuring out new ways for you to be creative, figuring out ways to be resourceful and understanding that there are ways that you can make lateral shifts to a different industry and you can earn more or you can take on a second job or as we like to call it these days, a side hustle. I think that there's kind of a layering of things that you can do to combat against inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:

You also talk about the impact of the fact that we're kind of groomed to consume, especially with social media these days. Tell us more about that and what are your tips there to get over that invisible barrier to reaching our money goals

Paco de Leon:

When it comes to social media, what I've noticed is we're being exploited in ways that we might not understand. They're creating this technology that's super, super addictive. They hire psychologists and neurologists to make these things more addictive. And at the end of the day, if they don't have a business model that is selling you a product, you are the product. So the advertisers are the ones selling you things and they're hoping that you'll click and you'll buy, and many of us do.

So I think the first step is just understanding what's going on, understanding that oftentimes this might be a losing battle, one. The other thing that I recommend for people to do is if it's not realistic to get off of social media, find ways to create bumpers. And again, this is a greater societal issue and we're having to create individual ways to protect ourselves. I understand that that sucks and I want to call that out, but this is the reality that we're living in.

Two simple things you can do. One is you can unsubscribe from all of those emails. If you've ever put something in your cart and then abandon the cart and then two days later you get an email and they're like, hey, you left something in your cart, unsubscribe to them. That way you're not tempted.

The other thing that you can do is you can create a buy list. A buy list is exactly what it sounds like. It's a list that you keep. And every time an ad on social media pops up and says, you should buy the sweater because of the person who you will become if you buy the sweater, put that sweater on your buy list and take your time making your buy list cute. Pick out the size, pick out the color. Because as you're doing that, you're tricking your brain into thinking you're actually shopping. Because part of the excitement about shopping, part of that dopamine rush is the anticipation. It's deciding, it's looking around, it's researching, and then create a rule for your buy lists. You will only buy things if it's been on the buy list for at least 24 hours or one week or one month. And over time, I think what you'll recognize is that if you give yourself this kind of cooling off period, this like distance, you probably won't buy it. And if you do buy it, then it means you really want it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. And remember, if you have regret, you can also return it.

Paco de Leon:

That's another trick.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's okay to return an item, I mean be ethical, don't like go wear it a lot. But you can return it, that's perfectly okay. Let's also talk about there are internal factors as well as external factors. So you talk about biology, for example our tendency to compare ourselves to others. Tell us about that.

Paco de Leon:

Yeah, I heard about this concept from a psychologist. I took this course called the Trauma of Money, and it was all about understanding how to approach money from a trauma based perspective. And one of the facilitators is a meditation coach and a psychologist. She was talking about how humans have this thing that we have within our minds that it was useful for us, it protected to us, and it's this tendency to compare ourselves to others. And the reason why, this is what she told me, and the disclaimer here is that I'm not a evolutionary biologist, nor am I a psychologist, but how she explained it was like, humans are social creatures. We cannot survive on our own. We need to work together, we need to cooperate, we need to make sure that we are good enough, strong enough, or carrying our own weight in the sense to be part of a group because that group will protect us, that group will make sure that we survive. And so we've developed this ability to compare ourselves to one another.

Now, if you think about social media, it's a perfect little compare machine. It's this little computer in our pockets and it really tickles that part of our brain where we're comparing ourselves to others. So that's one other thing that I hadn't really learned about. I hadn't known about that, that made me realize, wow, yeah, even when I go over to my friend's house and I see a certain lamp, I'm like, oh, I want to be the kind of person that has that lamp, or I want to remain the kind of person that has friends that has that lamp.

I think the most important thing to do is to recognize that this is happening because once you can start seeing these patterns, then at least you have a fighting chance at pausing and making decisions that are a lot more rooted in cognition and not just this reaction.

Bobbi Rebell:

That's so interesting. And that actually flows into something else that we're going to talk about, which is the subconscious beliefs. We sort of almost label ourselves. We think of ourselves as one thing, and that can also be something that's an invisible factor in terms of preventing us from reaching our money goals.

Paco de Leon:

Yeah, I mean, I can give a pretty extreme example, but before I do that, I want to say that subconscious beliefs, we can call them another thing, we can call them a cognitive bias or we can call them a narrative that we have heard over and over and over, and it becomes this mantra, this story that we're repeating in our own minds. Some of us don't even recognize that we're repeating it, we have to take a pause and choose to reflect on our own thoughts to see it.

But a pretty extreme example would be if somebody grew up in a household with abuse, whether that be physical or emotional, or if somebody grew up in a household that was really chaotic or if somebody grew up in a household where they just didn't have a lot of money and they really, really identify with that narrative, they really identify with the story that I'm just the kind of person who I didn't grow up with an emergency fund and I won't be the kind of person to have an emergency fund. I know that sounds kind of silly, that these little beliefs, these narratives, our upbringing kind of gets our hooks into us and we're walking around all day long not really being in control of some of our decisions, but that, it's the truth. It's happening. If you've ever gotten into a car or gone home on your commute and you looked up and you're like, wait, how did I get from the office to my house? Or you wake up and you go through your morning routine, you're like, did I brush my teeth or did I not brush my teeth? There're these instances where we kind of black out and our habits take over.

So the thoughts we think they also become habits, and when a thought becomes habitual, it becomes a belief and then a belief impacts how we think we can act in the world. I think the important thing about this conversation is realizing that how we act with our money it's a big soup. It's all these different factors that come into play and can impact our day to day behavior.

Bobbi Rebell:

And we're emotional when it comes to money. That's another internal factor.

Paco de Leon:

Absolutely. Yeah, we're definitely emotional. The state that we're in has a really big impact on our decisions. The example I always love to tell people because they can relate is like it's six o'clock at night, you need to pick up groceries for dinner. You're already hungry because you had a granola bar and a banana for lunch and you decide to go to the grocery store and you're hungry. I promise you, you're going to make terrible, terrible decisions. You're going to buy things that you normally wouldn't buy and you're going to spend so much money and it's all because of the state that you're in. When it comes to financial decisions that also has a role, the state that you're in. That could be stress, that could be emotional distress, it could be joy even.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much Paco. Where can people be in touch with you and learn more about you and all of your great work?

Paco de Leon:

I put out a weekly email newsletter every Wednesday called the Nerd Letter and you can sign up for it at thehellyeahgroup.com. I am also offering two free chapters to download of my book Finance for the People, and you could download it at thehellyeahgroup.com/book.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much.

Paco de Leon:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people, so I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

My friends, you can see, I wasn't kidding when I said Paco doesn't mince words about the reality we are living in. But Paco also delivered when it comes to solutions. I love the tips on how to save money when we are tempted to shop, especially that social media stuff. Also, it was fascinating to hear what Paco learned from these psychologists about how we compare ourselves to each other and the real impact of that on our money habits.

So what resonated with you? I want to know DME on Instagram. I am at BobbiRebell1, that's B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L and then the number one, and also follow me on my new TikTok channel, that's just under my name, BobbiRebell and sign up for my newsletter. There's a link right in the show notes for that and any other relevant links, by the way, for anything that we talked about on the podcast, that you can just find on my website, bobbirebell.com. And just click on the podcast tab on the top, Big bang to Hell Yeah Group founder and money for the people author Paco de Leon for helping us all be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts, reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 

 
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How to avoid the hidden costs of investing with Cashing Out authors Julien and Kiersten Saunders
How to avoid the hidden costs of investing with Cashing Out authors Julien and Kiersten Saunders
 

Episode Description:

My guests today are Julien and Kiersten Saunders. Their new book is called Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. When I first met them Julien had recently left his job as a chef to build what has become this multimedia platform- but Kiersten was still in her 9-5. Fast forward Now their Rich and Regular blog is also a podcast, and they have a fantastic YouTube series Money on the Table. 

The book Cashing Out has a LOT of money tips for financial grownups but the reason I wanted to hone in on the not-so-obvious costs of investing was because the mistakes that they each share in the book are things I 100 percent could have done myself - and as you listen you may see yourself in their stories as well. On the other side of the interview I’m going to share more about WHY- but first I want you to hear from them.

And by the way at the top of our interview I also get some very real candor about what it’s like to work from home, together, on a family business- and as parents. 

A little sneak peek into Julien and Kiersten Saunders’s episode!

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 01:16 - Introduction

  • 02:18 - Introducing Julien and Kiersten Saunders

  • 04:57 - Working together to make business and finance decisions.

  • 07:03 - Julien shares a story of how he became aware of the hidden costs of investing

  • 12:24 - Kiersten shares a story of how she became aware of the hidden costs of investing

  • 14:18 - How much is an educated guess worth?

  • 16:04 - Kiersten’s favorite money-saving tip

  • 16:53 - Julien’s favorite money-saving tip


Julien Saunder’s Bio:

His professional career has spanned over twenty years from preparing fine dining meals, training waitstaff, project management, distribution, and brand marketing. And when he wasn't doing that, he was building a humble real estate investment portfolio. Today, he is the co-author of Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. He also manages a blog with Kiersten and together they have created the rich & REGULAR brand.

Kiersten Saunder’s Bio:

Kiersten spent her 20s climbing the corporate ladder and working hard to earn good money. It wasn’t until Julien told her about the Financial Independence movement that everything changed. At 35, she was able to quit her full-time job and makes money in a different way now. Today, she is the co-author of Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. She also manages a blog with Julien and together they have created the rich & REGULAR brand.

 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:

Big thanks to everyone who has written to me with frankly a lot of empathy for all of the computer issues that I used to have. Yes, past tense, used to have. And also, yes, to answer your question, CleanMyMac really did work to clean out the junk on my computer.

So, if you're frustrated with a slow-moving computer, there's a good chance CleanMyMac can help you too. If you want to check it out and also get 10% off and also support this podcast while you're at it, please go to bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, and I promise, you're going to love it. It will make you feel so much less stressed when you turn on that computer because it's going to work so much better. That is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. And be in touch, let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. It was totally worth it. I hope you like it, too.

Julien Saunders:

He was very honest. He was like, "Yeah, I was conflicted too, because I completely understand why you would want to do that. I agree with you, but I didn't have that available. And so, it wasn't an apology because he didn't do anything wrong, but he certainly understood where I was coming from and it was one of the best financial decisions we ever made.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Putting a trusted friend or family member in charge of your investing actually sounds like a simple, accessible way to get your act together and really be a financial grownup when it comes to investing, because you're getting it done. So is signing up for your company's 401(k) plan and choosing investments that your employer picked out. You would assume they're going to offer ones that are in your best interest, just like that friend or family member who is managing your money would always put you first, right? Not so fast, and not so good for getting the best bottom line returns. So, we're going to talk about that and hear some stories that will shock you.

My guests today are Julien and Kiersten Saunders. Their new book is called Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. Now, when I first met them, Julien had just recently left his job as a chef to build what has become a multimedia platform, generally under the name rich & REGULAR. Kiersten was still in her nine to five. She has now left that because there's so much going on. Now their rich & REGULAR blog is also a podcast. They have a fantastic YouTube series called Money on the Table. And of course, the book, Cashing Out. And by the way, more to come, but we'll get to that.

So, the book Cashing Out has a lot of money tips for Financial Grownups. I encourage everyone to pick up a copy. One thing I wanted to hone in on in the book and really focus on for the purposes of this podcast and have them expand on, things you're not going to read in the book, are the not so obvious costs of investing. And the reason is, as I read through Cashing Out, I couldn't believe the mistakes that they made, because they were things that trust me, we all could and many of us have done, because they're not really mistakes, they're just not knowing what to look for, right? Because nobody is going to tell you, "Don't trust the family friend." And in fact, by the way, a little spoiler alert, the family friend wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong. In fact ... Well, I'm just going to leave it there. We'll call that the teaser, okay?

On the other side of the interview, I'm going to share more about why these stories hit me so hard. I'll share a little bit of my own experiences, but first I want you to hear from them. And by the way, at the top of the interview, I also get some very real candor about what it's like to work from home together, on a family business, and as parents. And one key bit of advice that they gave, that I think will help all of us, that even if it's not all the time, that sometimes have to work from home with family members and those members do include children. Here are Julien and Kiersten Saunders. Julien and Kiersten Saunders, you are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Kiersten Saunders:

Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

Congratulations, you guys are officially authors and bestsellers. You are the brains behind Cashing Out: Win the Wealth Game by Walking Away. You're also obviously the creators of the rich & REGULAR brand, which is a blog and a podcast, and you also have a YouTube series that's very successful. Your business is the two of you together. I mean, how has that impacted your finances when you have to make business decisions?

Kiersten Saunders:

We've learned over the years through trial and error, and we actually started with projects that weren't monetizable to begin with, to learn each other's work together style. So, we started with home renovations and planning for a baby, and arranging the marriage, not arranging the marriage, but planning the marriage and then planning the honeymoon.

So, there were all these smaller projects that happened before we decided to create this family-owned business. But I think my advice would be just to approach every project, every conflict, with curiosity and not so much judgment. It's very easy to tie in the conflict you experience and business decisions to be this indictment on your relationship or your love for each other, when really it's a separate thing.

Julien Saunders:

In the book, we talk about how much larger homes have gotten over the years and while it's still not enough because people are using external storage. Well, the reality is, we bought a larger home with this dynamic in mind. So, she works upstairs, I work downstairs, we meet in the middle for lunch, right? So, we technically-

Kiersten Saunders:

And dinner.

Julien Saunders:

Yeah, dinner, but we technically don't see each other. So, it's not as if we are in the same room, on top of each other, every single day. So, space, without question, helps.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's get into Cashing Out. So, one area of the book that I really was drawn to was your reminder ... And a lot of the book, by the way, I should say, is things that we should know but we don't really know, is your reminder that investing is not just about the returns that you see on the surface. There's a lot more that goes into it, a lot of hidden costs that are right in front of you, but we aren't necessarily aware of in a cognizant way.

So, I'd love for each of you to share a story in the book and I want you to give us a quick version of it, of your experience, how you became aware of these hidden costs of investing, and then we'll talk about what people can do about it. So, Julien, you had a family friend, a trusted person, who is a good person, we want to point out, who was managing your money and helping you with investments as you were coming up as a young adult, becoming a financial grownup. Tell us about that relationship and the revelation that changed it.

Julien Saunders:

Yeah, I mean, he is a big brother, he's still a dear friend, family friend of mine, his wife, we know each other very well. But as I started to learn more about investing and I became a little bit more empowered, we would have these, it almost felt like a bi-annual meeting or something like that, where I'd go to his office, he'd have all his fancy screens. And in previous years, I would be totally intimidated. He would talk circles around me and I just had no idea. But I accepted that challenge and said, "You know what? The next year or the next time I go in there, I want to know what I'm talking about." And I did my research and I was drawn to index fund investing.

And so when I went into the next meeting, I offered my recommendations and said, "Actually, here's what I'm thinking. It's my money, and so here's what I would like to do with at least half of it, so that we can see what happens, right? Let's see what the return looks like." And it was very awkward because in that moment I realized that what I had also learned was really true and it was staring me in the face, which was that as a financial advisor, as someone who earns his income through commissions, it really was not in his interest or in his company's interests to make those kinds of decisions. In fact, they didn't even offer those types of funds, and that was very eyeopening for me.And so, I had come to a really interesting point where I had to decide if I believe the evidence that it put before me, which is the importance of keeping your costs low and the impact that that would have on our investment portfolio. That was what I understood to be true, but then it was also the nature of this relationship. And obviously, part of the reason why I invested with him is because I knew him, he was a family friend. I went to his wedding, he was at my wedding. And so there was a relationship there, but it was also at conflict with our financial interests and our strategy.

And so, we decided to self-manage. We decided to step away from that. And years later, we finally had a conversation about it and he was very honest. He was like, "Yeah, I was conflicted too, because I completely understand why you would want to do that. I agree with you, but I didn't have that available." And so, it wasn't an apology, because he didn't do anything wrong, but he certainly understood where I was coming from and it was one of the best financial decisions we ever made.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let me ask you though, during that time, did you ever ask him ... And maybe you were coming up because as a family friend it could be very awkward. Did you ever ask him, "Wait, how do you get paid?" Was that ever part of the conversation and were you paying him anything? Was he making money from you and from commissions? What awareness did you have at the time? Because you also realized he was a financial advisor, not a fiduciary. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Julien Saunders:

Yeah, so we never got into that conversation, but as someone-

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm sorry, you never asked him how he was paid?

Julien Saunders:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay.

Julien Saunders:

So, we never got into the conversation about how he earned money, and that to me still felt a little awkward. I was safe with my assumptions, because again, part of what I'd learned was that he was paid through commission and he had a base salary and all of those things. I also started to learn that in certain cases, if he was able to offload certain funds into my portfolio or any of his other clients, he might get a premium.

And so, the combination of what I was experiencing plus where I was in my personal career, and as someone who was getting really heavily involved with real estate investing, and so I know what it feels like to cut a 10,000 or a $20,000 check with someone, you start paying attention to the cost of things. And what was odd to me was that I'm in this relationship with a financial advisor who has a lot of control and influence over my financial destiny, and I have, I mean, practically zero insight into how he gets paid. It's not like I get an itemized report like I get from my management company for real estate, or anything else in life.

And so, it just felt odd to me and dare I say, suspicious, but also legal. And the whole thing just felt very odd to me, which is what led me to learning about the differences between a financial advisor and a fiduciary. And so, he was right, and again, in line with following the standards that he is supposed to follow, which is the suitability standard. He made financial recommendations that were suitable. I wanted to make more money, these are a set of options that presumably can grow, and yes, you will have more money, but that doesn't mean that that's the only way or the best way, or certainly, the most cost efficient way. And that's what I was particularly interested in, because I started to learn the impact that costs have on our long-term investments.

So, a fiduciary is different in the sense that they follow a fiduciary standard, meaning they are legally required to make recommendations that are in your best interest. And I think that goes back to the sense of conflict that my financial advisor felt and also what I felt at the time. And so, I felt very comfortable that if I were to use a financial advisor, I 100% would have a preference for using one who followed what I felt to be a better or a stronger standard.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. And Kiersten, you had a similar ending with a very different experience, where you also realized after the fact, but never too late, that there were costs you weren't necessarily as aware of as you should be. Even though they weren't proactively hidden from you, you weren't necessarily presented those costs in a way that you took action immediately. It took a while to come around.

Kiersten Saunders:

Yeah. I, to put this in context, was a late bloomer. I worked for 10 years before I contributed to a 401(k). And so, when I finally did, after paying down all of this debt and being intentional about learning more about investing and financial literacy, when I finally did, I logged into my company's 401(k), and this was over a decade ago, so I don't know if they're still set up like this, but I was met with all of these prompts and calculators about how I wanted to invest. And they were all lifestyle questions, they weren't really mathematical. It was like, "Do you want to go aggressive? What kind of retirement do you want? How much do you want to spend when you're no longer working?"

And so of course, I put in the biggest, most aspirational numbers ever. It's like, "Yeah, I want a yacht, get me on the aggressive path." But what I didn't know was that I was opting into a bunch of actively managed mutual funds that came with fees, which we now refer to as the four letter F word, but they were these fees that I did not know to look for. I didn't know what real returns were. I was just looking at the promised returns of 20%, 18%, or the average returns historically. And that's what I was sold on.

I never did any additional research, until as Julien and I were talking and as he was showing me all of these boring, candidly, documentaries on retirement and index funds, I realized, "Oh, okay, that makes sense to me. That must be what I'm invested in." And when I went to go look, I was like, "Actually, that's not what I'm invested in at all. I'm paying four to 10 times as much as what I could be paying if I just opted into this simpler form." And so yeah, I changed it. Thankfully, I knew how, and it was hard to convince myself that I knew how, but I did. And then, I've been an index fund investor ever since.

Bobbi Rebell:

One of the favorite lines that I read in your book was, "How much is an educated guess worth?" Tell us about that line. Worth to you, I should say.

Julien Saunders:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we wrote that line with that relationship dynamic in mind. And so going back to our financial advisor, the reality is, fees aside, right? We learned and understood how these hidden fees, which I think of as the high fructose corn syrup that's sort of in our 401(k)s, but we were very clear on the fee part.

What also made it worse or even more despicable, if you will, was that they got that commission, they got paid regardless of the outcome. It didn't really matter if they did well or if the market did well or underperformed. And when we started doing some research, we found that the vast majority of actively managed funds with the primary objective of beating the market, actually failed to do so. And so, the notion that I would be willing to part ways with arguably a third of my earnings over a 30 or 40 year period, and it would still fail to achieve its stated objective, versus having the option to simply invest using index funds, have really clear understanding of how much it's going to cost me, which is literally pennies compared to actively managed funds. It just felt like a no-brainer to me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I can't let you go before I ask you for what is really my favorite part of the book, at the end, you have an index of these incredible, quick, and I want to say easy to understand. Nothing's really easy, let's be honest, when it comes to money, but easy savings tips everyone can do. Kiersten, you're up first.

Kiersten Saunders:

All right. My favorite savings tip is to make sure that you don't forget about income. Focus as much on growing your income as you are on savings. And typically, when I say income, people hear wages or salary, so they think, "Okay, I got to get a second job, or I got to get promoted at this job. I just got to get more out of my job." But what I'm saying is income, which is a more broad and endless opportunity.

And regardless of what you do for a living, many of us get additional income throughout the year, whether it's a birthday gift, or a tax refund, or a rebate from a purchase that you made, that counts as income. So, apply the same aggressive savings goals, apply the same discipline towards that income, towards that money, as you would your paycheck.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that. All right, Julien?

Julien Saunders:

Yeah. My favorite tip would have to be courage. Just the importance of courage, and especially the importance of having the courage to pay yourself first. I think as entrepreneurs, that's especially important, because you're always wondering when the next deal or big thing is going to come, but you have to remember to pay yourself and you have to trust that you've done all the right things and that more business is coming in.

But even for W2 employees, I think it's important, and even now, especially after learning that the IRS has increased 401(k) contributions, and you owe it to yourself to invest a little bit more and to trust that you'll figure out other ways ... If it leads to a little less net income, you'll figure out a way to make those adjustments.

Bobbi Rebell:

I know that your book Cashing Out is available everywhere. What else can people be doing to be in touch with you? Your YouTube channel? Plug away guys.

Kiersten Saunders:

Yeah, so you can find us at richandregular.com. And then we are also active on all of the social medias. Instagram, I almost said TikTok. Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all under rich & REGULAR. Oh, and Facebook.

Bobbi Rebell:

And Facebook, everything. Thank you so much. And everyone, check out Cashing Out.

Julien Saunders:

Thank you, Bobbi.

Kiersten Saunders:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

It is holiday time, my friends, and finding just the right gift can be hard and expensive. Consider giving the gift of getting better with money. My latest book, Launching Financial Grownups, makes a great present for parents of almost adults, grandparents of almost adults, and frankly, any adult that cares about the young people in their life. And also, it's a simple and easy gift for clients. If you're looking for something a little more creative, check out the merch at grownupgear.com. Use the code Grownup for 15% off your first purchase, and thank you for supporting this podcast.

After I hit stop record on our interview, my mind was racing, and I wonder if you had the same thoughts. So, for example, with Julien, the dear friend who was his financial advisor, so interesting, he was able to maintain that friendship because the man was honest. He never hid anything. He just didn't tell Julien until it was asked, that he could only sell products that were in the best interest of his firm and were also suitable for Julien. He wasn't a fiduciary. The truth is, if Julien's goal was simply to make money, even putting money in something as simple as a money market account would've been suitable.

So, my money tip on that, besides making sure to ask how your advisor gets paid and to really prioritize working with a fiduciary, is to be specific about your goals. Yes, you can think that when it comes to money, more is more, true, but there are levels of more and risks involved.

As for Kiersten, this is a big heads up by the way, for parents whose almost adult children are early in their careers and hopefully not waiting a decade to choose investments for a 401(k). For the most part, human resources departments, at best, are going to be pointing new employees to where they can sign up for a 401(k) plan, and by the way, other things like health insurance. We can't expect them to, number one, nudge those new employees to actually put money into it. Kiersten waited a very precious decade.

And two, the HR department is not probably giving any insights as to the costs of different funds or investing options that the new employees are choosing in their 401(k). In my case, for example, my oldest, Ashley, opened her 401(k), and in this case, she almost put her money in a bond fund, just because of a misleading name. It's really confusing. So, be vigilant and ideally get a second pair of eyes on your investing choices, just to make sure they are what you want them to be. We're all going to make mistakes, but let's at least purposefully choose the investments we want.

You listen to this on audio, but we are experimenting with video, and I'm starting to put out clips on social media. So please, I need your feedback, guys. Follow me. Give me some thoughts on how it's going, what you think is working, what maybe is not so good. On Instagram, I'm @bobbirebell1, that's the number 1. On TikTok, just Bobbi Rebell. Same thing on Twitter, @bobbirebell. I am also making some changes to my newsletter, and I want to make it even more value-add for Financial Grownups. So, if you are not already signed up, we'll have a link in the show notes and also on the bobbirebell.com website. I share articles and videos for Financial Grownups, upcoming appearances, new merchandise from Grownup Gear, and highlights from this podcast. I would love to hear from you about how I can give you the best financial grownup money tips and really add value to your lives. On that note, big thanks to Julien and Kiersten Saunders for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup.

The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 one on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 

 
Bobbi Rebell Kaufman
Relationship money tips with Tailor-Made Budgets Ericka Young
Relationship money tips with Tailor-Made Budgets Ericka Young
 

Episode Description:

The title of this episode is Relationship money tips- and most people will read that as romantic relationships- and we do get to that. But equally important are the relationships we have with other members of our family including our children. Fellow new empty nester Ericka Young is living this and her money tips are pure gold. Ericka is the money coach behind Tailor-Made Budgets and the author of “Naked and Unashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have.” She has been married 24 years and is in the thick of it when it comes to launching her financial grownups. 

A little sneak peek into Ericka Young’s episode!

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 06:01 - Relationship Money Tip #1

  • 06:51 - Teaching kids about money as a concept vs teaching them to be a financial grownup

  • 07:18 - Slowly, give your kids' bases

  • 09:00 - Find commonality in your relationship

  • 11:42 - The misconception that what parents have is what their kids have

  • 13:56 - Relationship Money Tip #2

  • 14:58 - Relationship Money Tip #3


Ericka’s Bio:

Ericka Young is a speaker, financial coach, and best-selling author of “Naked and Unashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have.” During the 18 years, her firm Tailor-Made Budgets has been in business, Ericka has helped over 500 families crush debt so that they can design a vibrant and intentional life. Working up close and personal with her clients has given her a unique perspective on what it takes to win with money. Ericka believes that personal finance goes beyond the numbers. As a result, Ericka has developed creative ways to break down the mental and experience-based barriers to financial success. Today she brings this life-giving message to corporations, banking institutions, and college campuses so everyone has a path to true financial freedom.

 
 

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy-to-understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup Listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmyMac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L-.com/cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Ericka Young:

I think it's fair while you're dating to ask money questions and get those commitments around boundaries, and healthy habits, before you actually take the leap and do anything together as a team.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this. The title of this episode is Relationship Money Tips, and most people are going to read that as romantic relationships and we're going to get to that. But equally important are the relationships that we have with other members of our family, including our children. Fellow new empty nester, Ericka Young is living this and her money tips are pure gold. Erica is the money coach behind Tailor-Made Budgets and the author of Naked and Ashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have. She has been married for 24 years and is in the thick of it when it comes to launching her financial grownups. You're going to love this conversation. Here is my friend Ericka Young. Ericka Young, you are a financial grownup. I am so happy to have you on the podcast.

Ericka Young:

Yes, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
We were just bonding over the fact that we are both newly empty nesters. How has that been? Tell me where you are in your life.

Ericka Young:
Honestly, being an empty nester is a little strange. The word that I'm using is weird. I'm not necessarily super excited that my youngest has launched off and gone to college, but I'm also not sad. I don't have this guttural internal reaction that's sad or crying or any of that. It's just odd being able to be here and not having a younger person to sort of follow around and see what she's looking at on TikTok or make food for really like the extra stuff you got to do. I mean, I miss some of that, but we talk pretty much several times a week, so that part is still good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And so I ask you that because one of the things that we talk a lot about now on the podcast with my book Launching Financial Grownups, and by the way, you have your own book as well, which is Naked and Ashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have. How do you feel about how prepared your two kids are for the world from a financial standpoint as a new empty nester having launched two kids?

Ericka Young:
Yeah, my oldest one just started her new job. She went away, so she's not in the state with us anymore and is working corporate, and so that was a little bit nerve-racking, but I'll be honest with you, we in college, there was a point where we sort of cut her off and what that means is we made her pay her rent, we made her pay her utilities. When she had her apartment, she had to handle that. We were not paying those bills physically. She had an account, the money got deposited, she handled it and she also worked.

And so she had that uncomfortable couple of months where she had to figure out what a budget meant, how much she actually had to spend on groceries. And I walked her through all of that. That was an odd yet necessary moment. So that and her handling $1000 was about what she was doing per month. Handling $1000 has prepared her to handle $4,000, let's say. And that stepping stone was really important. So I'm not saying that it's perfect, but I am saying that when she got her apartment, we just said, This is the time. You've got to work through this.

And it was uncomfortable for both of us because there was this back and forth a little bit. I also had a budget meeting. She became one of my financial clients, right, my coaching clients behind the scenes a couple of months ago when we went over her big girl budget and just that new income and all of the responsibilities that she had on her own, and wow. I mean, it was a bit eye-opening for me as a parent because we always thought, Oh, we know what's going on. We've prepared her appropriately. She has no debt, she's got a great career ahead of her. And it's a little bit like, Wow, okay, I really want her to flex these muscles without feeling the need to lean on us. And having to do that dance with her a bit was interesting, but she's taken it on and she's tracking her expenses and she's saving money and mama is proud. But it's a growth for the parent just as much as it is for the child for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it brings to light the difference between teaching a child about money as a concept and teaching a child to be a financial grownup.

Ericka Young:
Yes. Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's practical. It's real. I like the fact that even though she wasn't completely on her own in terms of where the money was coming from, you were giving her some money, which is perfectly fine, but it was on her to manage it and implement the kinds of decisions that you had talked about, but you were still there as a supporter.

Ericka Young:
That's right. That's right. I think it's really good to give people phases, give your kids phases when they're younger and they have a job, great, let them manage that a $100 or $300 per month or whatever it is. And then in college, give them a little bit more autonomy over that, especially since, I mean you don't want the ties. What we did in college was we gave our youngest and we gave our oldest money every month, a certain amount so that they weren't coming to us. Mom, I need 50 bucks, mom, I need this. No, no, no, no, you have this amount. You manage this amount. That forces them to think about how much they're spending.

And with my youngest, just recently, I had her add up all of the money that she spent in one month so she can see it for herself because I think people are not really aware of how much they're spending. They've got to face it. And so I think that was really eye-opening for her as well. She had no idea that she was really spending 400 bucks a month and for her to have that, it was eye-opening. It grounded her a bit because I think she said, Okay, so I really need to pay attention to some of this because this is not just a smaller sum of money. It's not just $100 bucks that's going out the door.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it makes it real. Okay. I could talk to you forever about all of your amazing insights into raising financial grownups and launching them, but I had you on because especially with your book, I wanted to talk to you about relationship-oriented money tips for financial grownups. The first one, obviously tying to what you just talked about is when you're talking about kids, especially if you have a partner, if you have a co-parent, give me your tips in that area because sometimes when we're raising kids and when we get ready to launch them as financial grownups, we don't always agree on our approach to teaching kids about, our almost adult kids about money in the real world as they launch.

Ericka Young:
Yeah. Well here's the misconception. A lot of people, a lot of couples, and partners, they want to get on the same page with their money, which I believe is possible, but it is not what people think getting on the same page is all about. It is where you're finding commonality, where you find agreements so that you can move forward. My husband and I do not agree on everything. Matter of fact, there are a lot of things in our financial lives as we've grown. We've been married 24 years, Woo, long time. In that time there's been a lot that we've disagreed about. And so getting on the same page is not agreement in totality on everything. It is finding commonality, figuring out what your dreams are, and figuring out what you want. What do you see for your children? How do you envision helping them to launch off well?

And so where my husband and I agreed was that we really wanted to make certain that our kids had no debt when they graduated college. We wanted that to be the start that they had because that's not what we had. The methodology might have been different, right, or the day-to-day, how that played out might be different. Matter of fact, in a lot of these one-on-one conversations with my girls about their budgets and things, it's me. It's not the husband, it's me. Partially because I am the financial coach, but also my husband's not interested in those details. Right. And so I'm not going to force him to be a part of the details when that's not his strength or that's not what he's interested in. Right. So maybe it's the vision casting that you agree upon and find commonality on so that you can move forward successfully as you raise these kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that flows into the next tip that I want to bring up from you, which is focusing on telling your kids that your money is not their money, but in a gracious way. You don't want them to feel like they're just cut off and you're going to take it all away from them. There's an art to it.

Ericka Young:
Yeah. There is. It's funny because my daughter, when we got our backyard done, she was like, wait a minute, is this my college fund? I'm like, what? What are you talking about? This is our money. What we do here, how we make moves through life is a result of the work that we have done to get to this place, and our wealth, where we are, and our assets are what we earned. And if we decide and how we decide to give to you generational wealth is our choice, but it's not a today thing. Just because we are at a certain level doesn't mean that automatically catapults you and you can do whatever. We're not running around here with Louis Vuitton bags, you know what I mean?

And so I think the misconception is that what parents have is what their kids have and that they get a chance to start their life where you are. And I'm like, you've got to earn too. You have a responsibility to earn. And I think it's healthy to flex the muscle of growing your own wealth. Not to say that we won't give once we're gone or down the line, but the wealth that we have or what we have built is not going to be something that they get to embark upon immediately in the beginning of their adult careers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also want them to have the feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction to get to that level by themselves. I mean there is a feeling a lot of the time that young people, they move out of their parents' home and they feel they should have a place that's similar or they're not successful. And we have to let them know that no, when we were 22, 23, or whatever age you want to pick as the age of an emerging adult, we lived in a very not so nice place with five roommates or whatever it may be. I remember living in a ground floor back of the building studio. I remember being, Yeah, I did a Hampton's share, but there were 20 people in the house.

Ericka Young:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean it was bananas. So understanding that at this life stage you may not be where your parents are, the current life stage that they're at is something that I think is important for parents to communicate. All right, let's go to another tip. We're going to back up now to pretend we're dating and this is something maybe we can also be teaching our children. I love this tip because I feel like you have so much to say about this. Make commitments before combining money. This is a warning to emerging adults who get so excited and want to share it all. Take a deep breath. Ericka, tell us.

Ericka Young:
Yes, I think it's important that we understand that relationships are great and our emotions can get involved and we have to slow down enough to figure out where we are really committed. So what I shared with my daughter and her relationship is to understand that you are growing in your career. This is the time for you to build and stand on your own two feet and make certain that you know who you are professionally and personally before you decide to combine any finances and all of that. And figure out what the commitments are between yourself, really like what is you want from yourself and your career as well as your partner. You're coupled up, you are emotionally there, but you need to have some money conversations and understand where you're committed in this relationship.

Do you see it going somewhere? Are we just having a good time? Are we beyond the friend phase? You know what I mean? That kind of thing. I don't want her moving in with someone and you're not clear on the financial responsibilities they have as well as you have. And are you down the path of marriage? I mean, I think it's fair while you're dating to ask money questions and get those commitments around boundaries, healthy habits before you actually take the leap and do anything together as a team.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this is so important when we're talking about money and relationships. The last tip on that note and this, you're coming towards a quarter century, 24 years of marriage, you are the champion. So this tip is so meaningful. Understand your partner will make mistakes with money. And I added, and you will too.

Ericka Young:
Absolutely. No one's perfect. We want the financial journey to be an easy straight path all the way up. Right. And there's going to be bumps in the road. There's going to be times where someone isn't making money. There's going to be times when we make a faux pa and we're not happy with it and all that. We have to just understand that we're human. That means that the journey isn't going to be perfect. And if we can come into knowing that conversation is going to have the grace necessary that you have to give to your partner in order to live together, to cohabitate and all of that good stuff, make decisions. Just we're flawed humans and embracing that for yourself and for your partner is really, really, really helpful. Don't expect perfection because you can't expect it from yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It comes and everything to do with the relationship and definitely with money as well. We all make so many mistakes and we often try to hide them from our partners or we get angry with our partners when they make mistakes. And the best thing to do is just let it out, discuss it, own it, and move forward because it's going to happen. And that's just the way it is. And,

Ericka Young:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes they get a traffic ticket that you had warn them they were going to get and you just are going to have to pay it people. Okay.

Ericka Young:
Listen, that was me. That's me. I'm the one with the traffic ticket. And the other thing is make sure you don't have secrets.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Ericka Young:
I think it's important when we trip over ourselves and all of that just don't have secrets. I think because that will add to it, right? The financial mistake and then you didn't tell the truth about it and,

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Ericka Young:
That just is going to add even more drama to the situation too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I mean and just like examples, like I gave the example of a traffic ticket. It could be that maybe you were in charge of paying a bill and you messed up, you messed up, you didn't pay it for some reason. You just didn't set the auto thing or whatever. Or you forgot to cancel a subscription that you were going to cancel. There are all kinds of little everyday things that correct them of course, but just let them know. Let them know. We're all flawed and the way to a successful marriage like Ericka's is just not to keep secrets and to accept that you and your spouse will make mistakes and to just be honest about it. Because we all have our moments. Ericka, so your book is Naked and Unashamed:10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have. We've given people just a sample of your incredible advice. I know you are a very high in demand speaker, especially these days as things start opening up, but you occasionally do have room on your calendar. Where can people get in touch with you and learn more about your offerings?

Ericka Young:
Yes, so you can find me on erickayoung.com. That's the website and you can see more about what I'm up to as well as on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, Ericka Young Official. You can find me there and connect with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Ericka Young:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There are definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money-expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people, so I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support. By the way, even though I stopped recording the podcast, our conversation continued for over an hour. Ericka is a wealth of information, pun intended there. I highly recommend you check out her content on her website. Her website, by the way, again, Ericka is spelled E-R-I-C-K-A, last name Y-O-U-N-G, and pick up a copy of her book, Naked and Ashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have. And if you like Ericka and myself, have young adults in your life, in your family, whether they're your children or younger relatives or just young adults in your life, please pick up a copy of my newest book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

I can tell you there's no greater joy than seeing a young person figure something out and learn to do it on their own and have that feeling of satisfaction and knowing that you gifted them that rather than just in some cases like writing a check or just helping them get it done on their own. So much more meaningful. Okay, here is the big ask something both Ericka and I really, really need you to do. Please leave reviews for each of our books. It takes just a few minutes to do on Amazon or other places like Goodreads, just as good as well. That little bit of support really carries a lot of weight. You would be surprised.

And also if you do screenshot it, share it with us on social media so we can thank you so we know who you are. And at the same time, by doing that, you are helping other people get the knowledge in our books and growing our community, and just being helpful, which we appreciate so much. Sometimes it's just nice to be nice and we love that. On that note, the biggest thanks to the very nice Ericka Young of Tailor-Made Budgets for helping us all be financial grownups. Thanks everyone.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast are brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial grownups.

 
Bobbi Rebell Kaufman
CD’s: The boring investment opportunity many of us are getting excited about with Marketwatch Investing Columnist Beth Pinsker
CD’s: The boring investment opportunity many of us are getting excited about with Marketwatch Investing Columnist Beth Pinsker
 

As investors’ appetite for risk continues to be tested by the stock market and crypto currency, we shine the spotlight on old school Certificates of Deposit. Beth Pinsker shares how to buy them, which ones to buy and why CD's are having a moment for the first time in decades. 

Money Tips

1. Think about your whole financial picture

2. Your timeframe matters most

3. Money you need in the short-term is best kept low-risk investments.

4. Ask for help when you need it

 
 

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing. Even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M forward slash CleanMyMac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Beth Pinsker:

It is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Are you wearing any retro fashion? Maybe you're reaching to the back of your closet, pulling out something that you forgot was even an option but now looks interesting enough to try on. That's what's happening with CDs, which is short for certificates of deposit. I personally have absolutely ignored them for as long as I can remember and my only real awareness in my daily life of CDs came from those signs that you see when you walk by physical bank branches and they would advertise rates that were frankly not all that appealing. Well, the laughing has stopped because the rates have gone up right along with inflation, but in a good way. And unlike I bonds that we discussed a few weeks ago, there is not one rate for all and not one term for all. There are a lot of choices for all of us to make if this is something that we may be interested in adding to our investment portfolios.

So I have enlisted the help of my former work colleague, Beth Pinsker, to give us the low down. Now, Beth and I worked together at Reuters where she wrote a personal finance column and she was also the editor of many of my columns. Like me, she also became a certified financial planner. Beth is now at MarketWatch where she writes about investing. I saw her recently and being the nerds that we are, the conversation naturally turned to how exciting CDs were as one does. Beth translates all when it comes to CDs. You guys are in for a treat. Here is Beth Pinsker.

Beth Pinsker, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Beth Pinsker:

Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm happy to have you here. We ran into each other recently and reconnected. We are former colleagues and you have continued to soar in the world of journalism. You are now the investing columnist at MarketWatch. Tell us a little bit about that job and your expertise, because you're also a CFP. We both took the CFP exam and we both mutually cheered each other on and thank goodness we passed because that exam is one we don't want to take again.

Beth Pinsker:

No, never. I'm done with tests I think. So I'm looking in my column and investing holistically as an element of financial planning. So it looks at everything that you need to do from what kind of accounts you have open to what you put in them to how you take it out of them, that whole life cycle of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that because we previously used to just think, okay, investing means throw money into the stock market, pick an ETF and you're done, set it and forget it. But it's becoming a little more complicated now because the market's had such an extreme pullback. We're talking in the fall of 2022 and people are starting to think about things like I bonds, which we covered in a recent podcast episode, and things that we used to roll our eyes at and dismiss as being not all that, things like CDs, and that's what I asked you to come on and talk about. Tell us, first of all, just explain to people because this may be a foreign concept to some people listening to the podcast because it has not been something even really for many people worth looking at. What's a CD? How do they work? What do we need to know? The basics.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah. Advisors tell me that anybody under 50 has no idea what a CD is and has never touched one and doesn't have any idea what they are. A CD is a certificate of deposit, it's a banking product. So it's fully insured under the FDIC and you are basically buying a certificate that is loaning money to the bank and they pay you interest for that and that interest is higher as an incentive than a regular bank account. You lock in for a certain period of time, three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, five years. You can even get CDs that are longer than that and the longer the length, the higher the rate usually.

What happens with that kind of structure is that a lot of people will put longer term money in there in order to get the higher interest rate or they will create what are called ladders where they have different maturities that come due and then they create a rung structure. So you have a three month, a six month, and nine month, and when the three month comes due, you roll it into a six month and when the six month comes due, you roll it into another six months or a three month. There are different scenarios for what you need to get out of your money, but basically it's a loan that you are giving to the bank and so they give you money in return.

Bobbi Rebell:

Is this something that people would buy in a normal brokerage account like if they use certain apps or if they use certain discount trading platforms? Is it as simple as picking it out just like you would a stock or a mutual fund or an ETF?

Beth Pinsker:

It's actually easier, which is why I think that when you talk about I bonds, which you have to go to a separate account to buy, and treasuries, which you have to go to either treasurydirect.gov or you can get them through your brokerage account. There are all sorts of maturities and different distribution dates and all sorts of numbers after the title of the treasury bond, they're hard for the regular person. A CD is like a click in your bank account and you have a CD. It's like the regular person's version one step beyond a high yield savings account. I think that the hierarchy is you have your checking account, you have your savings account. If you're really interested in making more money, you have a high yield savings account, which might be at a separate bank like an online savings bank.

If you want more money than that, then you go to a CD and then if you're willing to go beyond those steps, then you think about I bonds in a separate account or treasuries in a separate account. There is something called a brokered CD, which would be available through your brokerage account and those are typically at a higher rate than even the CDs that are offered directly by a bank. Basically, they're like bulk rate brokerage discounts so that Fidelity or Vanguard or whatever your brokerage account is, they would make a deal with the bank that's offering the CD and you would get a slightly better rate to buy it through as the brokerage account as an incentive to do it there and then it would live in your brokerage account.

Bobbi Rebell:

So let me ask you this, for example, you compared it to treasuries. With the treasury, which is borrowing from the government, the rate is set. So with I bonds, every six months it's resetting. We know it's been 9.62, we know it's going to reset to a lower number, but it is what it is. With CDs, different banks could offer different rates. I mean we walk by, if you walk by a bank, you see them often advertising the CD rates. So is this something where you may bank at one place but you may want to shop around and buy a CD at a different place? And if so, how do you shop around?

Beth Pinsker:

So you can find the latest rates if you Google and search around a little bit, it is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate. You may get preferential rates from a bank you already have a relationship with, so that's one place to start, but then you can start looking around. And because they're all FDIC insured, you don't have to worry about the safety of a brand name that you might not have heard about or a bank that's only online or a bank that's really far from your home that you can't go visit in person. As long as it says FDIC insured on there, you should be pretty good. And because it's a competitive environment, you might find a really good rate somewhere that's seeking out new customers and you can get a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:

You sent me four tips for our financial grownups, so I just want to go through them as well. The first tip when buying CDs is to think about your whole financial picture.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. So you don't want to put money in a CD that you're going to need right away. If you have an emergency fund, people are starting to think about their emergency fund in tiers. You need the money that you need right away to have access to say for instance, a check doesn't come in that when you're expecting it or you blow a tire and you need a little bit of extra cash, you need money you can touch today and you want that in a savings account. You want that earning interest but somewhere where you can get at it, but you might have a lot saved in your emergency fund as you should like six months worth and you wouldn't need that money for six months.

So you can look a little bit further out for the kind of opportunities to earn more on it. And so you can get a six month CD but you lock it up for those six months. There are some CDs you can get where you can get no surrender charges, where they're going to charge you if you turn it in early, but those are going to cost you a little bit on the rate. So they'll take a little bit off for that convenience fee. So that's why you have to look at how much do I need right now? How much do I need in a little while? How much do I need in a longer term timeframe? And for that longer term money, you have other options right now. CDs are one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your second tip for financial grownups is exactly what you just said. Your timeframe matters most. So follow up on that, you've talked about the timeframe, but what are the other options? You said there's other options with different timeframes. What else should people be considering?

Beth Pinsker:

When I was first a grown up, I thought you needed a certain amount of money to invest. That used to be true. There used to be minimums and trading fees and it really didn't pay to invest money because you were going to pay so much in fees in order to buy the stock or mutual fund that you wanted to buy and you needed $5,000 or $10,000 to get anybody's attention to do it for you. And now with all these trading platforms, there's no transaction fee, there's no minimums and you can get started right away. So your money is really all about what you need it for and what's the best way to store it and grow it while you're waiting to spend it. You have investing options, you have bond options, you have banking product options, you have a lot of options these days.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. Because your third tip was money you need in the short term is best kept in low risk investments, CDs are one. And I think a key thing that has come up a few times in this interview is FDIC insured. And that's something that I think has become more of a conversation topic in the wake of so many troubles in the crypto space because that's something I don't know people were necessarily aware of that there is no FDIC insurance when it comes to crypto products and other new kinds of investments that maybe people are thinking about and talking about. It's not that simple. I mean FDIC insured, can you just explain what protection that offers?

Beth Pinsker:

Sure. FDIC is an insurance product offered by the government to banks on $250,000 worth of deposits in a single account type. So if I have $250,000 and I have it in the bank and the bank goes kaput, the government will make sure I have my $250,000. I can't lose that money. It won't necessarily protect me from losses in the stock market, for instance, like there's a separate insurance for the failure of brokerage houses, but that also only covers the amount of money you have saved there. It doesn't cover investment losses. And I think what a lot of people are learning this year too is that the stock market can indeed go down and I think a lot of people who might have gotten started investing in the last five years or so might not have really fully realized that that things do go down and that if you put a thousand dollars in the stock market and today it's 800, nobody's going to make up that difference for you. But if you put your money in a bank account and you have a thousand dollars, you're going to have a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. And the fourth one is probably the most important for financial grownups and that is to ask for help when you need it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah, a lot of people have trouble with that. A lot of people don't want to tell their exact numbers to anybody, and it's hard, even a teenager talking to their parents or a young adult talking to their parents doesn't want to talk in exact numbers. And it's hard to give advice for finances without exact numbers because the advice you give to somebody who has $10,000 to invest is a lot different than somebody who has a hundred thousand dollars to invest.

Bobbi Rebell:

I think that you've made a great point throughout this that not only is everyone's needs goals and resources different, but your timelines are different. And that really is so much of this discussion that the nice thing about CDs is you can choose different timelines with the CDs and you'll get different returns, but at least you can customize it to your needs and strategize with it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. Another important thing to take note of that is that the Federal Reserve's next meeting is November 2nd, and then after that, I think it's December 14th, and they might raise rates again. And so you might want to be cautious about what you lock into right this second. We're very close to November 2nd. If rates go up again with the Federal Reserve, they're tied to the rates that banks offer. And so CD rates and high yield savings account rates and treasury bill rates might all shift upwards with that. And if you're locked into a two year CD right now, you might not necessarily capture what's going to happen in a month. But then again, given all the forecast about the economy, rates might eventually come down. So we're in an in between phase where nobody knows exactly what's going to happen with rates. And so you just want to take a look at what your needs are and what the amount of money you're dealing with and the timeframe you're dealing with and see what the best course of action is for you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. Beth, tell us where people can make sure to get all of your pieces for MarketWatch and be in touch with you if they want to learn more about you.

Beth Pinsker:

Well, there's marketwatch.com and then there's bethpinsker.com, so either one.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, great. And your socials?

Beth Pinsker:

I'm @bethpinsker on Twitter. And I'm Beth Pinsker on LinkedIn, and my dog has an Instagram account.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh, well what's your dog's Instagram account?

Beth Pinsker:

It's [inaudible 00:16:28].

Bobbi Rebell:

We'll follow that too. Thanks, Beth.

Beth Pinsker:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

So many choices. I highly encourage everyone to use the free resources available to you as a listener of The Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast, including the full transcript that we provide so you guys don't even have to take notes. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and look under the podcast tab and then click on the episode and it is all there for you. So be in touch with what topics you want to hear about. Just DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, that's the number one. Or email me at hello@financialgrownup.com. I love sharing this information with all of you for free. I know your time is precious and I appreciate your support. If you do have the time, please leave a review of this podcast wherever you listen to it and help me get the word out by taking a screenshot on your phone and sharing it on social media.

Tag me so I can thank you and let you know how much it means to me. And of course, you could just tell a friend about it too, right? Let's stay in touch. I share relevant articles and resources in my newsletter. It only comes out every other week, so I promise I won't barrage you with mail, but I really appreciate you being part of the community. You can sign up on my website, bobbirebell.com. Super easy. Biggest thanks to MarketWatch investing columnist and certified financial planner, Beth Pinsker, for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

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Advice, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanCD, CD's, Beth Pinsker, CFP®
5 Money Tips to play (and profit) at The Long Game with author Dorie Clark ENCORE
5 Money Tips to play (and profit) at The Long Game with author Dorie Clark ENCORE

Dorie Clark shares game-changing tips to upgrade our work and personal lives including a new alternative to the passion vs. money career debate, jet-lag productivity, heartbeat income and working more hours- in less time. 

 

5 Money Tips To Play And Profit At The Long Game

  • Rethink Multitasking

  • Use Jet lag for productivity

  • Do something interesting

  • Ask- but wait a year first

  • Patience leads to the pay off- but don’t be passive

 

Follow Dorie!

Follow Bobbi!



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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Dorie Clark:
Lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? Is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, Grownup friends. You guys are in for a treat. This week's interview is someone I have been trying to get on the podcast for quite some time. It is Dorie Clark. She is the author of the new book, The Long Game, it's her fourth book actually. If you're not familiar with her, and frankly, even if you are familiar with her, you're going to be so happy to listen to this episode. You're going to get so much out of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dorie is a big time public speaker, thought leader, and as I mentioned, an author and so much more. We totally hit it off. She covered some great topics for us, including what we can do if we haven't found our big passion. We all talk about follow your passion, but some of us, it's not so obvious what that passion is, but Dorie has a great solution.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also talked about super easy ways to up our productivity. Yes, you can have more than 24 hours in a day apparently. I'll tell you, some of these things were obvious once Dorie pointed them out, but they really weren't obvious to me beforehand. They're easy things that we can do once we know how to do them from Dorie. You'll see, we were doing it all wrong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we're going to talk about what we can learn from the amount of time it takes to learn to do a handstand. It was a great story and it made so much sense. If we're being honest, I, by the way, can not do a handstand and I'm not going to put in the time to do this handstand thing, guys, but the lesson that Dorie is going to give us totally works. This is all going to make sense. I know this was a little bit confusing, but just trust me. Listen to the interview. Here is The Long Game author, Dorie Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Dorie Clark. You're a financial grownup.

Dorie Clark:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm so glad to finally have you on. I've been a fan of yours since our mutual friend, Danielle Towne, introduced us a few years ago, and at that time started reading your books, Reinventing You, Entrepreneurial You, and you have some other ones in the mix, but most recently, The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World. You can see all of the tattered pages. Congratulations.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. It is amazing. It looks like a dog attacked it. I'm glad you were that voracious with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I read it by the pool, so there was a little bit of suntan lotion and water and all that stuff, but it was truly loved, mainly because I know you as the super successful Dorie Clark, you're such a celebrated thought leader, but you're very vulnerable in this book.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. Well, one of the things that has been challenging for me over the course of writing books, and this is my fourth one, and it's not necessarily a philosophical or emotional challenge, but it's actually just overcoming training. But I started my career as a journalist, specifically a political journalist, and the thing that you learn above all else is you are not the story. You are not the interesting part of the story, you write about other people. That was the frame that I was coming from. Over the course of writing my four books, I've come to learn that actually, in terms of what connects with readers, what seems to really make an impact, that's exactly wrong. I mean, what we look for in the news I think is very different than what we look for in business or career books.

Dorie Clark:
Over time, the part that people seem to respond to the most strongly was actually hearing some of my own experiences, and so over the years, I've really learned to weave more about what I've done and what I've tried and what I've gone through into the books as a compliment to the narrative and the reporting that I did. I'm really glad that you responded to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really did. The book is very relatable and I think a lot of people in our Grownup audience will feel the same way. You have a lot of incredible money and, frankly, life tips in the book. I want to dive right into those. I have five that I've highlighted. The first one is you talk about rethinking multitasking, because multitasking has gotten a lot of pushback in recent years, but you have a different perspective.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It is completely true that perhaps what we think of when it comes to multitasking is bad. That would be the equivalent of like, "Oh, I'm actually pretending do a podcast interview with you, Bobbi, but I'm actually checking my email," and that is not true, by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
You could pull it off.

Dorie Clark:
Well, the truth is, if you're trying to use the same parts of your brain, something is going to slip and it's just going to be suboptimal all around. But something that I realized, through some very meticulous time-tracking studies that I did over the course of several years, is that actually there are very complimentary activities that you can do. I mean, some examples might be working out and listening to a professional development book, or taking a walk and calling your mom, or whatever the case is, but it's two activities that you can do both of them equally well at the same time. It could be a cooking dinner with a friend, So you're doing a chore, but you're also visiting with someone that you want to spend time with. During my time tracking, I actually would double count those activities if I could legitimately do both of them equally well, and I came to realize that I'm actually able to build in about 28% more time into my week by doing that. I've become a huge fan of strategic multitasking.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about that is it's the anti-workaholic mentality, because it's giving you more downtime.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It's really just being a little bit more thoughtful. I mean, sometimes we fritter away these moments. I mean, I remember back early in my career when I didn't live in New York and I had a car and I'd drive to work, sometimes I just wouldn't think about it and I'd put on top 40 radio and most of it was just listening to advertisements. I mean, that is legitimately wasted time. Whereas, with a little bit more thought, you're listening to some kind of an educational podcast, like this one, or you're listening to an audio book and you're actually using that as professional development time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, use jet lag for productivity.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. Speaking of things that we normally treat as wasted time, jet lag is often a top of the list. I mean, we all know, when we're jet lagged, you're not going to get anything "meaningful" done in terms of the way that we normally think of meaningful work. I mean, you can't do anything detail-oriented, you're propping your eyelids open, you're not much use, but what I came to realize is that, actually, we can begin to think about that time differently.

Dorie Clark:
Now, I would never say, "Oh, let's do your QuickBooks when you're jet lagged," that would be a bad move, but what I actually did one time, sort of inadvertently, was I was jet lagged on a trip to Russia and I ended up being able to do basically an entire year's worth of strategic planning while I was keeping myself awake at a cafe, partly because when you are jet lagged in that way, when you're half sleep deprived, your brain is able to make creative associations that are not necessarily logical and linear. I was able to be a lot more big picture about my thoughts and it enabled me to do better strategic planning than if I actually had been well slept and in a more logical frame of mind. I think it's really about matching your energy and your state of being to the tasks that are most appropriate at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number three, this one, I love this because it's a strategy that solves the issue of should you follow your passion or should you follow what's going to make a lot of money. You say focus on doing something interesting.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. What I've seen, and I'm sure you probably have too, Bobbi, is that there is so much pressure in our culture to find your passion. What's your passion? You don't know what your passion is? People can feel kind of inadequate and browbeaten at a certain point if you're not following your passion. I know a lot of people, smart, talented, hardworking people, that maybe they've reached a point where they have been working so hard and so long, they might not even necessarily be sure what their passions are anymore. With the work and the kids, they have kind of turned that part off because it's not even something you can really dwell on.

Dorie Clark:
What I wanted to do in my book, The Long Game, was to lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? I mean, is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time." Instead of looking for the passion, instead of looking for the soulmate, what I suggest is just do what's interesting, just explore something that seems interesting. It's a low bar, but almost all of us are at least able to tell, okay, this seems interesting to me or not. Then if it stays interesting, keep moving in that direction, and if it doesn't, it's your signal to pivot. I think that that is sometimes a more sane and sustainable way to begin to move in the direction of things that you care about more.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, that can evolve. We're not going to go too deeply into it because I want people to read it more fully in the book, but one thing you weave throughout the book that I loved hearing about is your passion for theater, which was not something you did as a kid. You weren't a theater kid on stage every day, but you started to develop it and now it's evolving into perhaps a business. I can't wait to see the rest of the story evolve, but it can be something that sort of weaves through your life through different things, even taking a comedy course, different things that you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
But in the interest of moving on, we're going to go to number four because otherwise we'll just go on a million tangents with you. Number four, ask, but wait a year first. Because we do push people to go, go after that mentor, get a champion, get someone who's going to be a sponsor at work, but it's a little delicate. You say a year, that seems so long.

Dorie Clark:
It's true, it's true. I like to be a little extreme in this because I think that we have a cultural problem, because certainly in the United States, but in many other countries as well, where we have internalized way too much, the mentality of, well, it doesn't hurt to ask. I would like to say, actually yes, sometimes it does hurt to ask, because if you are making an inappropriate request too early in a relationship, you will destroy that relationship. Now, where people go sometimes is they say, "Oh, well I don't want to be a wallflower. I don't want to be stupid about things." Well, the point is, it's not that you never ask, it's that you have to let a relationship evolve to the point where the ask is appropriate and contextual.

Dorie Clark:
I mean, I am sure this is probably the case for you, Bobbi, with your business and the media profile that you've cultivated. I certainly experience this as well, where I will meet somebody, maybe at an event, maybe we connect on LinkedIn or something like that, and then five minutes later they're saying, "Oh, hey, I see you're connected to so-and-so," insert super prominent person, "Can you connect us?" It's like, "Wait, I don't even know anything about you." Also, people don't really get this context, but a million people are asking the same thing. I don't want to blow up my relationship with somebody by sending them five random people a day. It's important to be thoughtful and to be judicious.

Dorie Clark:
It's not like ask them anything. If it's like, "Oh, Bobbi, I really like that sweater. Where did you get it?" Fine, ask them that, but I'm talking about wait a year before you ask somebody for something that involves political capital. When you do that, you're able to establish a genuine relationship so that they understand that you are not in it for the wrong reasons and you're not in it to use them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and using is very different from mutually beneficial friendships. There's nothing wrong with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fifth one, my fifth tip I want you to talk about, is patience leads to a payoff, but it's not just patience, you have to not be passive. That's a lot of P words, but yes, patience leads to the payoff, but don't be passive.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. In The Long Game, I have a concept that I write about called strategic patients. This is something that is dear to my heart, because frankly, from the time that I've been a little kid, patience has never been my strong suit. I have not been very good at it, but it is something that I have had to learn over time. I think the part that used to bother me about patience was that it did seem so passive. I mean, the way that it gets talked about oftentimes, and at least how my mom would talk about it, it was like, "Oh, we're just going to sit back, good things will happen. Just be patient, things work out." I can't help it, I'm a little more type A than that. I like to make things happen, not just have them happen.

Dorie Clark:
We understand, of course, we can't make everything happen, but it's important for us to have agency and for us to have autonomy in our lives and to control what we can control. Therefore, I have created essentially a hybrid model of strategic patience, because the truth is, yeah, it takes time, they don't happen as fast as you want, but you don't want to be a sucker about it. So that means actually developing hypotheses about, well, how long should this take and what are the signs that it's working or not working, how can I monitor them and adjust accordingly?

Dorie Clark:
The truth is, there's a lot of power. If something is going to take five years and you know it's going to take five years and you're monitoring for your progress, you're actually able to weather that a lot better. I mean, would it be better if it was fast? Yes, but you're able to weather that in a way that mostly you couldn't if you thought it was going to take six months and then it's not happening, it's not happening. That's when people give up, and they give up prematurely and it means that they are not able to accomplish their dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You give such wonderful and tangible examples of that in the book. My favorite is the headstand example.

Dorie Clark:
Yeah, thank you. This is one of my favorites as well. It actually comes from Jeff Bezos from one of his shareholder letters to Amazon stockholders. He tells the story about how a friend of his hired a handstand coach for yoga, which is pretty funny of a concept, but it turns out it is actually a legit hard to do a handstand. What the handstand coach told Bezos' friend is that the average person guesstimates that it'll take about two weeks of practice in order to be able to do a handstand. That is not the case. It turns out it takes about six months of daily practice to be able to do a yoga handstand.

Dorie Clark:
The lesson I think for all of us is that unless we are thoughtful and deliberate, it is easy to wildly over or underestimate what is going to be necessary for something. We really have to be aware of that. We have to check our assumptions and be thoughtful, because if you think something's going to take two weeks and it ends up taking six months, which is a factor of 12 difference, you're going to give up, you are going to get discouraged. That's true whether your goal is writing a book, whether it's being featured in a high-profile publication, whether it's building a new career. Developing that strategic patience is a really important prerequisite to being able to persevere and succeed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many wonderful insights in your book, The Long Game. I'm looking forward to hearing back from our listeners when they read it, so everyone should check it out. It will be everywhere, so we don't need to go through where your book will be, but where are you if people want to follow up with you?

Dorie Clark:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it. Well, the best place to find me, and also about 700 free articles on my website, is DorieClark.com. For people who are interested in the concept of playing the long game and becoming a more strategic and long-term thinker, I do have a free resource, which is The Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-assessment. Folks can get it for free at dorieclark.com/thelonggame.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much and continued success.

Dorie Clark:
Thanks, Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, did any of you think that it took that long to learn how to do a handstand? Would you hire a coach to teach you that? Yeah, me too. Dorie is so great. I actually went to her website after the interview to get some of her extra materials, very much worth making the effort, everyone, highly recommend.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many highlights from the interview, but the big takeaway for me was really that last part about strategic patience. Sometimes things just take time and if you don't have the right mindset, or in some cases, we don't have the resources to go the distance, we need to get honest about where we are spending our time and the best way to be spending our time. I have definitely been hit up by people very aggressively to make an introduction to other people way too early, so that whole thing really resonated with me. I mean, a year, it sounds like a long time, but time goes pretty quickly and you can't force a relationship. There's so much more in Dorie's latest book, The Long Game. She wasn't kidding, I really did read it intensely and I do plan to reference the book a lot. There's a lot of good stuff there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone, please be in touch. Let me know what resonated with you on this interview and let me know what more you want to hear on the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. Of course, if you want to hear more from me, I would love for you to join my newsletter. Just go to my website, BobbiRebell.com, and sign up there. Big thanks to The Long Game author, Dorie Clark, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley [Wall 00:19:59]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your Grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Advice, Authors, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanMoney Tips, Dorie Clark, Speaker, Keynote Speaker, Author
All about I-bonds with Jeremy Keil
All about I-bonds with Jeremy Keil
 
 

I Bonds currently pay 9.62 percent but that is ending very soon. Certified Financial Planner Jeremy Keil joins us to explain what I Bonds are, why the interest rate is expiring and how to decide whether they are right for you. 


 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Jeremy Keil:
9.62. A great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs. You can't find that in savings accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks, again, with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about savings bonds. Savings bonds used to sound really boring. In fact, they were really boring. The returns were kind of blah, especially compared to other opportunities that were out there. But things are changing. Between the bear market and the rise of inflation, something pretty interesting is happening with what are called I bonds. I as in inflation. Let me say though from the get go that this episode is, as is always the case frankly, for information and hopefully entertainment only. I'm not advising anyone to make any specific investments.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's going to depend on your personal situation and your goals, but you should at least know about different investments, in this case, I bonds, in order to make that decision. So my guest this week is Jeremy Keil. He is a Wisconsin-based financial planner and also the host of the Retirement Revealed Podcast. In our interview, Jeremy and I discuss what I bonds are, how they work, how you can actually buy I bonds. It's not where you think or where you usually get most of your investments. We also talk about how much you can buy. There are limitations and then there's little loopholes. And, most of all, why they are currently paying so much more than other investments. Stay tuned to the end because we also get into some quirks that you really need to know if you are considering putting some money into I bonds. And also a very important deadline. Here is Jeremy Keil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremy Keil, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a Certified Financial Planner. You have your own practice out in Wisconsin and you are also the host of the podcast Retirement Revealed. I asked you to come on because you focused, recently especially, on something that I am incredibly curious about and I think our listeners really need to know about, and that is something called I bonds. So it's a letter I and then the word bonds. Explain what exactly are I bonds and why do we care, especially at this moment in time?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. Well, you right might remember back in the day growing up, your grandparents probably gave you paper savings bonds for a gift. Christmas, birthdays, things like that. I bonds are savings bonds. They're U.S. government bonds. They're no longer on paper. And the I part means it's tied to inflation. And so no one really cared or knew about these until about the middle of 2021 when all of a sudden the rates started getting pretty good.

Jeremy Keil:
Middle of 2021, they were 3.5% and your average bank account was 0.01. And so that was a pretty good deal. Then they went to 7% and now, through the end of October, they're at 9.62%. So if you buy an I bond on October 30 or before that, then the rate will be 9.62%. And I threw in a little funky date there, October 30, because when you buy an I bond, you can only do it through treasurydirect.gov. You got to go direct to the U.S. government. They make it effective the next day. And so if you're on Halloween listening to this, have some fun, but don't bother buying an I bond because October 30 is the last day for the 9.62%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, we want to talk about why these rates are so much higher than other investment options, the risk involved in them, and then also what's going on on October 30. Let's start with, first of all, why are the rates so much higher? What's going on? Is there some kind of disconnect? Because, as we record this, which is October 6 of 2022, we're recording this, the stock market has been kind of a disaster the last few months. People have been losing quite a bit of money depending on where you're invested. And these seem very safe and kind of a no-brainer. How do they work? Why is the interest rate so much higher and why has it jumped so much recently?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, so I'll call it a quirk, not a disconnect. One reason why the stock market's down is because usually the stock market drops when there's a sudden quick inflation. And that's what happened. All of a sudden, inflation just kicked up. It was somewhat a surprise to most everybody. And yet the I bonds, I stands for inflation, they are tied directly to the inflation rate. And so when you see inflation high, that initially usually historically kicks down the stock market, but it's also tied a hundred percent. It kicks up the rates in these I bonds. And so it's also interesting too because usually in the newspapers and the news media, you'll see the 12-month inflation rate. And most of the time in the last year you've seen inflation's at around 8%, which is a pretty high rate. But the way I bonds are figured out is they take the last six months of inflation and they double it.

Jeremy Keil:
You normally see a 12-month rate, but they've looked at the last six months and doubled it. And so back in April of 2022, they had the March numbers and it came out that inflation was 8, 8.5%, whatever it was. But it was kind of a ramping up. The last six months of that 12-months number was really high and that happened to have been the number they use for inflation bonds, the I bonds on there. So 9.62% is the rate for anyone that bought in May of 2022 all the way through the end of October 2022. And that's interesting. 9.62, a great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs, you can't find that in saving accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks again with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on by looking into I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when you're buying an I bond, what kind of account should you put it in? Is it a taxable asset where you should maybe put it in something that's a retirement fund or is it something where you're going to pay tax on? Where is the best place to put these I bonds if you buy them?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. So you used a term taxable. I like to use the term non-IRA. It's just not special. It's just like your bank money. You cannot buy an I Bond inside of a Roth IRA. You cannot buy the I bond inside of your traditional 401k, anything like that. It's basically a replacement for your bank money. If you thought, "I don't need this bank money for the next 12 months or so", then you can put that money into an I bond and think of that 12-month number or 12-month time because you absolutely cannot, no way, get your money out of I bonds for the first 12 months. That's a rule. No matter how hard you try, you're not getting the money out. So the only money you should put into I bonds is money that you expect to not use for at least 12 months because you can't get it out.

Jeremy Keil:
And if you take it out in the first five years, you lose the prior three months interest as a penalty, which sounds big, sounds bad, but when you run the numbers, even after losing that last three months of interest, it still comes out to a pretty good rate. And then that gives us kind of a first tip with I bonds is looking at more a 15-month purchase at the minimum. Because if you really like the interest for the first year and you don't like the interest a year later, well, you want to wait about three months, then cash out your I bond because then you're cashing out and losing the bad interest and holding on to the good interest that you got the first 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you can't buy unlimited amounts of this. There are some caps to how much you can actually buy and then there's sort of a loophole with respect to taxes, to your tax refund.

Jeremy Keil:
A bit of that. So the maximum purchase is $10,000 per person per year. So a lot of people say, "Oh, that's not terribly too much." Most Americans don't have $10,000 in the bank. And so most Americans can benefit by purchasing I bonds and not actually running up against that $10,000 limit. Folks that have more than that and want to buy more than that, well, you might be married. That's 10,000 for you, that's 10,000 for your spouse. You might want to put some in the name of your kids. You might have a revocable living trust because you've done some estate planning and your trust can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds.

Jeremy Keil:
And you might have an LLC. Perhaps you have a business and that business can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds. So there's a lot of, I wouldn't say ways around it, but just knowing the rules that it's per person, per entity, I'd say most couples might be able to get 20,000, maybe even 30,000. Perhaps they could get more depending on what their kid situation is or their business situation is. And, hey, if you max out in one year, wait until January. It's per calendar year. You can get another. It just resets. You get another $10,000 per person or entity once you hit January.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now you talked about October 30 and that's because it's the end of the month and you need 24 hours. You need to buy it one day before the end of the month. What exactly is going to happen in November? I mean, how do we know it's not going to go up and get even better because it feels like inflation is still pretty bad right now.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, you get it. Inflation is bad on a 12-month basis. That's what you normally see. But the I bond rate is based on the prior six months. So the November rate will be based on what happened between March and September. And so far we're about a week away from that number release. So October 13, if you're listening October 13 or later, I'll have that posted right on our podcast website, which is retirement-revealed.com. We're doing the math every month on what the projection will be.

Jeremy Keil:
And, finally, October 13, we'll have the full six months that's on there. So we'll know for sure. But right now it's trending the last two months of inflation have actually gone down. And so you see the numbers that say inflation's 8% above. It's actually reporting 10 months of really bad inflation and the last two months, inflation has actually gone down. We'll see if it happens again for a third month straight. It's just kind of a quirk of how people report inflation with 12-month numbers. I bonds are based on six month numbers and if you really dig into it month by month, which I like to do, you'll notice that the last two months, inflation's actually gone down

Bobbi Rebell:
When you're actually going to buy an I bond, whether it's for money or also you can do it right with a tax refund money as well, right? That's an extra thing?

Jeremy Keil:
Yes. So that's an extra thing. So you could get, on top of the 10,000 per year of online I bonds, you could have your tax refund refunded to you, not direct to your bank, but through I bonds. Those are actually paper. You'll get them in the mail. And so some people are sending in a $5,000 extra payment. It's called a quarterly estimated payment. They're sending in that extra payment early in December or so because they want to file and get an extra refund coming back and they're choosing those paper savings bonds, those I bonds. That's a way to get more I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you could file your taxes. Let's say you got an extension on your taxes and you're filing them in October. You could send in an overpayment and ask for it to come back in the form of an I bond. And that's a way to actually put more money into I bonds if you wanted.

Jeremy Keil:
That's absolutely it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, great. So that happens automatically. That's something you do on the tax form. You can obviously speak to your tax preparer about that or I'm sure there's ways to figure it out through the IRS that it's on the forms, right?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah. That's a form. We'll see if I get you the exact form before we're done talking, but it's a form, I believe. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll figure it out and we're going to put it in the show notes for you, the form that you need, which is going to be on my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, but I'm sure you can also find it on Jeremy's website. So if you're not buying it through a tax refund, do you have to have it through a brokerage account or a savings account or whatever or can you literally just go to treasurydirect.gov and buy it that way? Or do you need it to be in an account?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, that's the only way to buy it is treasurydirect.gov. Yeah, you can not buy I bonds through a brokerage account or a bank. Some people are used to buying them through a bank or a payroll deduction. Those are all old school ways to do it. Treasurydirect.gov. Or, and I found it here, it's form 8888. Easy to remember.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jeremy Keil:
Form 8888, so tell your tax prepare if you want to get those I bonds, "Here's how I want my refund to come out to me" and you can put right in there up to $5,000 of your refund can come out as a I bond.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. Okay. So the limit though for the refund is $5,000. So that kind brings you up to 15,000 per person. Well, I guess it's 5,000 per tax return, right?

Jeremy Keil:
That's exactly it. So a married couple, 10,000 each plus 5,000 for the tax return gets you 25,000 for the year as your maximum.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What else do we need to know before we wrap up?

Jeremy Keil:
When you're thinking of short term money, you deserve more interest. And your bank is out there getting more interest through things like treasury bills or they're loaning out your money to make a better interest rate. I'd encourage you to go get the best interest you can find and it's definitely not your local bank. It's going to be a place like a high yield savings account. It's going to be a place like treasury bills, six month treasury bills especially, are a higher rate right now. But these I bonds have been kind of hot since middle of 2021. They look like they'll continue that way at least through the end of October of a purchase you can get for 12 months and get more interest than you can get anywhere else for 12 months guaranteed. So just look into those things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Tell us where people can find more about you and your podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, we've got the Retirement Revealed podcast, so just look up Retirement Revealed wherever you listen to podcasts. And then if you'd like to learn more about what we do on the retirement planning front, just go to fivestepretirementplan.com and you'll see some videos about here's how we take people through the retirement planning process.

Bobbi Rebell:
And those are great videos. Thank you so much, Jeremy.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, thanks, Bobbi. It's been fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called Clean My Mac. It's from a company called MacPaw.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and Clean My Mac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get Clean My Mac. To get that 10% off Clean My Mac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/Cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you you'll be so happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you guys to be in touch with me, let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it. As you could probably tell, this is not an investment that I have made in the past because the fact is saving bonds have just not been competitive with the stock market. And while I do want to repeat that this is not an endorsement of I bonds, because everyone's financial situation is different, it's important to at least know what's going on so you can make those decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, how are you guys feeling about your investments and are there new kinds of investments or investments that haven't been front and center in recent years, like I bonds, that you want to know more about? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter at BobbiRebell and please go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my free newsletter where you will get more useful investment tips and ideas.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also get the show notes with links to the things that we talk about on this podcast, like that IRS form, which is important. I think that was really interesting. And you can also get full transcripts of every podcast that we do for free. Just go to the podcast dropdown menu right on the top of the page. I also want to thank those of you who have left reviews for the podcast and ask that if you have not to please consider taking a couple minutes to leave one.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know everyone's so busy, but the support is really appreciated and means a lot to me. If it's easier, take a screenshot while you're listening and just post it on social media and tag me so that I can share it as well. And also thank you because it means a lot. It's really important to me to grow the community and get the word out and help more people. So thank you. I also want to thank Retirement Revealed podcast host and financial advisor Jeremy Keil for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanJeremy Keil, CFP®, Financial Planner, I Bonds
5 Top Questions about Crypto answered with Cult of Money’s Robert Farrington
5 Top Questions about Crypto answered with Cult of Money’s Robert Farrington
 

Bobbi welcomes back Robert Farrington to talk about his Cult of Money blog for the crypto curios. We discuss everything from how to invest in crypto, to understanding Web 3.0, NFT’s and how to avoid scams.

Money Tips

  • How does it work

  • How do we start? Is this through a brokerage or are there special accounts?

  • What do we do with it? Is it just for trading?

  • Is there a lot of fraud? How do we know it’s legit?

  • Is this a long term investment? What’s the future?

 
 

Follow Robert!

Follow Bobbi!


Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Robert Farrington:
Now instead of the big game companies extracting 99.9% of the value of all their customers, the game company might only be extracting 50 or 60% of the value, but they're giving the rest to their gamers. And these gamers can either buy their way to the top by buying NFTs or they can hustle their way to the top by really grinding away and playing the games and then selling what they earn and actually making money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this. Are you crypto curious? I know I am and I have so many friends that have invested in cryptocurrency and somehow for them it all makes sense. And while I can't say I'm ready to dive in, I do think we as financial grownups need to know what's up with this whole Web 3.0 world, which includes not just cryptocurrencies, but also other emerging investment options like NFTs. And yes, I say that skeptically, but what do I know?

Bobbi Rebell:
I invited my friend Robert Farrington back on. You may know him from the college investor, but he's been quietly growing a blog called Cult of Money, which is for the crypto curious. In our interview, Robert explains what this whole world of what a lot of people call Web 3.0 really is how the different investments works, who holds what, where, how do you actually invest? Can your kids invest without you knowing? How do you control your risk? And this one was a big one, how do you avoid getting scammed? And we even talk about taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, apparently there's a thing with getting taxed on crypto. It's a little bit complicated still but you do have to pay and well, I'll let him explain, but don't think you're not going to get caught. It's at the end of the interview. So listen to the whole thing. The answers were a big surprise to me. You will learn a lot here. Here is Robert Farrington. Robert Farrington, you are a financial grown up. Welcome back to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to have scored this interview because you have a new project. I hesitate to say new because just before we started you said it was a pivot from something else you did, but you'll explain that to us. It is for the crypto curious. It is a website called Cult of Money. So congratulations on the relaunch and rebranding or I don't know, what is it, Robert? Tell us about Cult of Money.

Robert Farrington:
That's exactly what it is. So it's a rebranding because I have been crypto curious myself and I decided if I'm going to do all this research and work and dive into this, I should probably share my learnings and what I found out and help other people that have been seeing all this stuff about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and all the other related products and services. While if you're like me and you're crypto curious, we share all that and hopefully help you digest and understand it from a personal finance perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first question for my financial grown up community about crypto is how does it work? What is this thing? Because it's going up and down and we hear about it and we hear some things that are a little bit scary, but then we have a lot of fomo. So what exactly is this crypto world?

Robert Farrington:
Basically think of it as a digital currency that is backed by other people's beliefs in this currency and it's technology based. So instead of a central bank or a conglomerate banks or a country controlling, it is controlled by individuals and institutions that hold these currencies. You probably heard of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is considered the digital gold these days. It is expensive, but it is a little more stable in the cryptocurrency world, it only fluctuates five to 10% here and there, which is stable in the crypto world. Then you have Ethereum, which is more akin to a digital cash. So people really love Ethereum because you can transact and you can do a bunch of different cool things with it. So those are the two more popular ones. You go down the list and you have a bunch of different varieties.

Robert Farrington:
I think there's over 2000 today, and I think where it gets a little scary is that probably number 50 to 2000 are akin to penny stocks in the world. And they are flyers and they are things that are very risky and there's a lot of scams and Ponzi scheme type things there. But the fact is that crypto's been around for almost 20 years now and it's really getting more mainstream in the last five to seven years. And now you're seeing products and services and all these things that are interacting with it. So it's important to understand what you're dealing with here. So that's what we're talking about and hopefully that sheds a little light on it without diving into the technical nuances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. There's a million little mini questions, but we're going to stick to the high level stuff. So basically to summarize that though, those are the big brand names and in theory, while nothing's guaranteed, those are the more reliable names if somebody wants to get involved with it. The names with more of a track record, but these are not government backed and they're not regulated as of now?

Robert Farrington:
They are not regulated, they are not government backed. There's actually a lot of questions on who even regulates these things. And then every state and every country treats these things differently as well. So it's very much the wild west of money these days. But again, at the same token, I think there's a lot of popularity around these as well because of all the concerns with what the Fed is doing and how corporate banks and investment institutions are handling things. So people are like, "What's the alternative?" And this technological currency is emerged as an alternative to it, but at the same token, it's very much the Wild Wes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you said at the same token, do you mean at the same time, I'm just curious or is that a deliberate cause you said it twice and I was like, "Wait, what?"

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have tokens on your mind?

Robert Farrington:
I do have tokens on my mind and we are talking about tokens and time, so man, I'm having trouble talking today as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, okay, so the governments don't really know what to do about this. It's not officially recognized. So how do we start? Can we do this through our bank account? Where do we do this and how do we know we're dealing with somebody legit?

Robert Farrington:
So there are two ways to go about investing in cryptocurrency. One is to go to an exchange. So people probably heard the name Coinbase these days or Binance. And you can go on these exchanges and they're very akin to the fidelities and the vanguards of the world where you open an account, you deposit money and you can purchase a cryptocurrency. And these exchanges will hold those cryptocurrencies for you. You can trade them, transact with them. The other way to go about it is to self custody your cryptocurrency where you don't have to interact with any government entity or company and you can do it yourself, but this is for the technologically savvy folks. And there is very high risk to this because you got to own your own stuff. It's very much like, I always like to use this reference, but I gets lost on the young kids these days of having your own share certificates.

Robert Farrington:
So Bobbi, you might remember having share certificates of a stock and you could put those in a safe deposit box and you could hold onto real shares of a company. Well, it's the very much the same thing of self-custodying crypto as you can actually own your own crypto, hold it on your computer and transact with it directly on the blockchain. But it takes a little more work, a little more technical savvy, and it's also a little more risky because the onus is all on you to keep your stuff safe and not get scammed and things like that. Whereas if you're on an exchange, the onus is more on the exchange to help those transactions go through.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I hear these things, some of these exchanges, I mean these are not FDIC insured the way that a bank is. And brokerage firms, you're not protected from if you own a stock and the value of the stock goes down, but you are protected from the brokerage firm just taking your money.

Robert Farrington:
So for example, Voyager was a publicly traded crypto exchange and it's in bankruptcy right now and it commingled its own assets with customer assets and it lost a lot of money including customer assets. So one of the things you see with the fidelities of the world is that customer assets are kept separate from the banks assets. So theoretically, even if these big and brokerage firms go under, your own assets are separate. Well, there's no regulation on these crypto companies and we saw Celsius have the same thing happen and Voyager. So again, that's why actually people like to self custody in the crypto space because you get to hold your own assets and no one can steal it.

Robert Farrington:
But whether it's a question of fraud or not fraud, in those cases, it was a question of these companies got greedy and over-leverage themselves taking out loans and use their customer assets as collateral. It's wrong. I don't know if you'd call it fraudulent, but it's wrong. But there is also fraud in the sense of people create fake coins and mean coins and there's a lot of pump and dump schemes and there's things like that that you really have to be aware of. You don't really see that with the "blue chip" cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Robert Farrington:
But again, when you get to the low cap brand new cryptocurrencies that are way down on the list, you can definitely run the risk of more fraudulent activities taking place, especially from the sheer fact that the amount of dollars moving in, and again, it akin to the penny stock situation. If someone buys a thousand dollars of a thinly traded cryptocurrency, it makes that price jump up significantly and that could have been an insider transaction or a celebrity or something else, and then they fake the hype around these coins and then people buy into that hype and then they get victimized as a result. So it is very much the Wild West, but it reminds me of the Wild West again, of penny stocks or other financial instruments that have happened all throughout time. This just happens to be the current modern version of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tangent question, what do you think about all these celebrities that went on endorsing, I think of Matt Damon obviously with that Super Bowl ad. I mean, has there been any development with that? Were they really investors in it? Were they paid in crypto? What do we know about that? And are they all stopping it because there's been more controversy about that. I mean, this became a big celebrity thing.

Robert Farrington:
The FTC is cracking down because these people are bound to disclose if they're advertising or not advertising. So there's definitely been some crackdowns on it and some different things around that. A lot of these big celebrities stayed out of it in terms of what they're endorsing and they're very careful. But I see it with a lot of small time influencers, especially like social media centric influencers that did know better, and especially the younger ones. When you're a young teenager and someone says, "Hey, I'll give you $500 to tweet this," they might not know that they shouldn't do that. In part two, that's a lot of money. So it's very hard for those to navigate that. So yes, there are cracking down on it. You need to be mindful of what you shared.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that it can be traded. Okay, moving past that, a lot of parents might have their kids coming to them saying, "I need Ethereum because I want to do X, Y, and Z on the internet." Tell us more about, first of all, what parents need to know and also the different uses of crypto that are realistic right now, the mainstream uses of crypto right now.

Robert Farrington:
Absolutely. So there's two really ways to go about this is you have the financial approach and you have the technical approach. On the financial side of this, we talked about trading but one of the biggest uses of cryptocurrency right now is payments. So sending international payments, sending payments to other people, crypto is way better at sending payments to people than a bank transfer or a Zelle or Cash App or any of these other things, especially internationally. So where you're seeing some of the biggest developments on the financial front of cryptocurrency is all in payments because it's very easy to have a verified authenticated transaction in minutes versus sending a wire transfer and paying a $50 fee and then heaven forbid it's international wire and all this crazy stuff. So cryptocurrency does that very well and that's huge and that's what you're going to see Bitcoin and Ethereum are thriving in that space.

Robert Farrington:
On the technology front, you're starting to see things like NFTs and different things like that, which are smart contracts and there's a lot of opportunities in the smart contract space to potentially build tools and actual useful things that just automatically run themselves. And we're seeing a lot of this in gaming. So for all the teenagers out there, the gaming front is huge in crypto because the ecosystem that exists right now is that you have to go buy a fortnight skin or you have to do this and it's all in the game and you're not really supposed to trade your accounts or sell your accounts. It's illegal and against the terms of services and different things. And we're seeing crypto really revolutionize that with Axie Infinity in different games where you can take things that you earn in the game and you can sell them outside of the game and then bring them back into the game.

Robert Farrington:
So they've created marketplaces based on cryptocurrency, really it's the NFTs that are layered on top that really add a lot of value. So now instead of the big game companies extracting 99.9% of the value of all their customers, the game company might only be extracting 50 or 60% of the value, but they're giving the rest to their gamers. And these gamers can either buy their way to the top by buying NFTs or they can hustle their way to the top by really grinding away and playing the games and then selling what they earn and actually making money.

Robert Farrington:
So those are the two biggest use cases today. But again, we are so early on in this that I think things are going to continue to evolve and going forward, but if you hear your kid saying, 'I need to buy Ethereum because I want to buy an NFT," it might not just be an eight picture. The eight pictures, they're like not the best use case for this. A lot of the gaming stuff, there's music, there's different things that involve royalties. And I'm actually even seeing content creators create digital communities using an NFT.

Robert Farrington:
Gary Vaynerchuk is a great example where he sold his conference as an NFT, people could then resell their passes to the conference and stuff by the blockchain. And the premises is that if he adds value, the value to his conference ticket will go up in price. And then you as a consumer can decide whether I want to go or not go. And if I don't go, I could sell that ticket and maybe make a profit, maybe not. But as the creator of this event, you get a royalty of all the secondary sales. So there's this premise here that if I add value, everybody wins. And that's the holistic good idea of NFTs and crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Gary Vaynerchuk still gets a piece of it as well? Continuing on the way that NFTs are resold, there's a continuing ownership. Unlike if an artist sold a painting, the secondary market, he or she, it's out of.

Robert Farrington:
100%. So the premise, again, if you want to use the art as an example, it's another great one that if I create 100 great paintings and each one continues to add value, well I still benefit from that first one I ever painted. So I have an incentive as an artist to not just be once and done. I have an incentive to continue to add value to my followers in my community because I'll get that monetary compensation as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for parents, what do they need to know? I mean, can kids set up their own account behind our backs if we don't know about it? I mean are there restrictions? I know with opening a brokerage account, you have minor accounts and things like that. How does it work with crypto? Is there any restriction or can just anyone set it up and we can find out that our 11 year old is and hopefully a fabulous NFT entrepreneur, but maybe not?

Robert Farrington:
So if your kid is tech savvy, they could set up a non-custodial account by installing MetaMask and just going to town with this. They need to get some money into the system, which is a little harder because they have to figure out how to link that and can get the payments into it. But theoretically, if they create an NFT and get paid for it, that's their money and they can have an account for it. You'll also know that a lot of major brokerages are now starting to allow crypto.

Robert Farrington:
So if you do have a custodial account for your kid, a lot of the apps like We Bowl and Robin Hood and stuff allow you to buy cryptocurrencies. Even Fidelity is getting in on this with allowing crypto being traded on their apps and stuff as well. So it is possible even for your kids to do it if you set up those custodial accounts. I think just like anything with teaching our children about investing in money is that if they're interested in it, you should probably let them but teach them that this is high risk, high reward and you can lose it all.

Robert Farrington:
On the financial side, like a Robin Hood or a Fidelity, they don't actually own the crypto, it's in the exchange. So that side is really only going to be for trading on price, which is truly speculating at that point in time. If they're self custodying and trying to do it for other things, there's a lot of technological learnings and different things that might be more valuable but again, know your teen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my final question is just what is the future of this in terms of investments? Are we going to be putting retirement savings in this? Are we going to be able, you have your other website, the college investor obviously, is it going to be something we could pay for college with? And what about taxes? That was five questions. This is my last question, but I have so many questions and I like the tagline, five questions. So all the questions.

Robert Farrington:
Well, okay. The future of this is still extremely high risk, high reward, I can't tell you what cryptocurrency is going to win. I think I could say, is it going to go away? No. Is the technology going to probably exist here forever? I think so. But will we continue to have these individual tokens and exchanges? I couldn't tell you. So I'm not trying to pick a winner. I think you should really think about it in terms of a currency. I think we're going to have NFTs forever. I don't think they'll be called that. We don't ever say www anymore in front of the internet. We just say the website name. It's that same technology. We're on the worldwide web recording this right now, but we never actually say www. And that's how NFTs and crypto are like the technology will exist and it'll be here, but I don't know if we're going to call it some of these same names.

Robert Farrington:
So I think you should pay attention to it. I also really like the idea of self custody and understanding your own security and securing your own assets because it's really sad seeing people getting hacked and losing their money. But on the same token, it's really important to understand how these things happen, how you can secure your own assets and just basic online financial security is so important. Using multiple passwords, never reusing passwords, understanding what a hardware wallet is and how these things work are essential to our future. I think as we are just dealing with our own banks and stuff, please have two factor authentication. Realize that getting a text message is probably not that secure if you're using that to get your two factor. Things like that are very good lessons that we can take away from the crypto space and apply it to our own financial lives.

Robert Farrington:
And then finally, you touched on taxes. Taxes are a mess. So crypto is a capital gain, capital loss type thing, but every transaction can be a capital gain or a capital loss. You have the potential for collectibles. If you're doing crypto in gaming, you have the potential to rack up thousands of taxable transactions very quickly. So it's a tax nightmare. Just realize that crypto is a tax nightmare, not necessarily in the reporting of it. The reporting of it is super easy. You put your gain, you put your loss, you fill out the form, not a big deal. It's getting all those transactions in one place because none of these companies are obligated to report it. So you don't get a nice 1,099 from all this like you do from Fidelity or Charles Schwab or whoever you're using. You are responsible for creating your own, what is it? 88, 49 tax form and submitting that with your taxes.

Robert Farrington:
And for those of you that think you can avoid taxes because it's the blockchain, it's things, well that's the whole premise of a blockchain. It's a public ledger. People don't necessarily know who's who, but at this point in time, the IRS has subpoenaed enough people and knows everybody that it's like a giant Sudoku puzzle. That they know like 80% of all the addresses and then they can piece together the remaining 20 by just putting the dots together and realize it's public. So maybe they won't come after you this year, but at some point in time they're going to run all this through a super computer and they're going to put all the pieces together and people are going to get nasty letters from the IRS. So don't think you can avoid the taxes, but it is really a challenging tax situation and I think accountants are a little frazzled by it because there's no beautiful 1,099 that summarizes all your transactions at the end of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Somehow I think the IRS will eventually figure that out. We know they're staffing up unfortunately. But anyway, all that information and more is available on cult of money.com. Tell us more about where we can reach you and your other business, that old collegey business thing.

Robert Farrington:
So you can find me at the College Investor or the cultofmoney.com and we have our podcast, we have video, however you like to find us or enjoy your content, we're there. So just find us the College Investor or Cult of Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thanks for having me. This is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up and all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating.

Bobbi Rebell:
A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That tax stuff was intense. Do you feel more or less ready to dive in or if you're already investing, do you have your doubts now or are you maybe a little bit more confident? I love hearing from all of you, so please be in touch on social media, whichever one makes sense for you on Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell and it would also mean a lot to me because I'm really trying to grow this community, if you follow me. And if you do, let me know that you are a financial grownup listener so I can be sure to follow you back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of community, I love to give to all of you, so I put together a newsletter usually twice a month with more useful information for living your best financial grownup life and I would love to share it with all of you. It's free. Just sign up on my website, bobbirebell.com and also on my website by the way, you can get the show notes and full transcripts for free for this and all past podcast episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoy this podcast, please consider helping me out and supporting it. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts or any other platform that takes reviews to help others discover the show. It means a lot to have an endorsement. You can also just take a screenshot on whatever device you're listening to right now and share it on social media. Tag me so I can thank you of course, or simply encourage your friends to listen and subscribe or follow the podcast. Make sure to check out Cult of Money for the crypto curious my friends. Biggest thanks to Robert Farrington for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast's brought to you for free but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanCrypto, Cryptocurrency, Robert Farrington, Cult of Money
3 ways to stop feeling bad about money with Kelley Holland
3 ways to stop feeling bad about money with Kelley Holland
 

Kelley Holland, author of You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth & Fund Your Future joins Bobbi to share strategies financial grownup strategies to boost your money mood and get back on track to your money goals

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Kelley Holland:
A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today. And the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the line from our guest that we heard in the open. Just think about it. A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat. It makes me think about that movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, or even better, 50 First Dates with Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler doing the same thing over and over. Yeah, it's pretty basic, but in this case, when it comes to investing, basic will likely serve us all well. My guest is Kelley Holland. She is a longtime financial journalist with stints everywhere from The New York Times, to Business Week, to CNBC, where I got my start. She is also the founder of Own Your Destiny. She is a financial coach and is now sharing her wisdom with all of us in her new book, You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth, and Fund Your Future.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talk about why women sometimes don't trust ourselves with money, and quite simply don't believe in ourselves. We lack the confidence. Kelley and I also talk about the jargon in the financial industry which often alienates so many of us and makes us feel intimidated. The truth is money skills are skills that have to be learned. And Kelley does an amazing job in our interview of sharing the best way to get past those obstacles that are keeping us from doing the things we know in our hearts we need to do. A lot of us, we just don't want to make mistakes. You're going to love this. I'll see you on the other side. Here is Kelley Holland. Kelley Holland, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm delighted to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're excited to have you here to talk about among other things, your new book, You Are Worthy. And in just a few minutes, we're going to talk about three ways to stop feeling bad about money, which is something that is a theme that runs throughout the book. But before we get there, I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to write this book.

Kelley Holland:
Well, this is a bit of a long and winding road. I spent a couple of decades in business and financial journalism at various national publications, and along the way I started writing about personal finance and became really focused on women's money challenges. A lot of them are structural and we know them. The pay gap, the more time we spend out of the workforce, the fact that it's harder for us to save. So there's all that. But what I realized after a while was that there was something else that seemed to be going on. Because I had lots of company sharing information with women about you should do this and you should save this way and here's a way to think about your savings and retirement. But nothing was changing. The pay gap was stuck, the workforce participation was stuck.

Kelley Holland:
And so I realized something else had to be going on and I decided it had to do with mindset. The more I talked to women about how they felt about themselves in relation to money, the more I saw that there was a mindset that kept a lot of us from bringing our A game to deal with the real challenges that are out there. So the book distills that and what I learned from my coach training and what I've learned from my clients as a financial coach. And it's all put together in a way that's designed to both encourage you and educate you to take charge of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also very relatable in that you have specific, and although you do keep people anonymous, you have very specific stories and very specific challenges that the people you interviewed. And it's a substantial number of people. I think over a hundred, you said-

Kelley Holland:
Over a hundred.

Bobbi Rebell:
... that you interviewed for this book. And the stories, I mean, if you don't relate to the first one, you're going to relate to the next one and probably the next one. And I think that's something very special about the book as we see each other in the people that you present to us in the book.

Kelley Holland:
Well, I really wanted to include that because one of the things that goes on with women and money is we feel uncomfortable talking about it and then we wind up feeling alone with our money challenges and we sort of feel like are we the only ones who feel this way? So part of what I wanted to do was not just be a talking head saying, "Do this, do that, I believe in you," but also make available the voices of other women just like my readers, who offer examples of, "Look, this person does feel the way you do and they're just as successful as you are, but they still have these hangups."

Bobbi Rebell:
So we have to change this. So you brought with us, and this is just a small snippet of the kinds of information you have in this book and the kinds of, frankly, specific, actionable things that people can do in the book. You brought with you three ways to stop feeling bad about money, the first of which is really recognizing that no one is born financially literate. Tell us more about that.

Kelley Holland:
Well, it's true. We aren't. We don't come out of the womb knowing how to manage money. And Bobbi, you're an ace at raising financial grownups so you know this, that this has to be taught. But it's kind of luck of the draw as to whether we do learn this along the way to adulthood. Not everyone can have you for their mom. And we do know that parents tend to talk to sons more than daughters about money, and they definitely tend to talk to sons more about investing and making their money grow. We also know that most states don't require financial education to graduate from high school, which I think is nuts, but they don't. So it's really up to chance as to whether you ever learn this stuff.

Kelley Holland:
And then women also get a whole lot of messages about being bad with money and being chronic overspenders and silly and irresponsible. So we start to kind of underestimate what we do know. So yes, if you feel like you don't know this material and you're beating yourself up about that, remember no one is born with this and it's just a matter of chance as to whether you get it growing up or not.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you bring up an interesting point because a lot of the information out there is focusing on fixing problems rather than applauding success.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's such an important part of moving forward with something that really takes time, like getting control over our financial lives. It's really important to be able to notice when you're succeeding and reward yourself in some fashion, even if it's just a silent pat on the back, but notice that you are doing something good for yourself and you can keep doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to the second way to stop feeling bad about money, and that is to remember that what happened in the past is over. And by the way, side note, this applies to relationships too.

Kelley Holland:
This applies to everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
We tend to bring the past with us and project it forward into the current situation and we need to kind of break away from that.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely. And it applies to the six cookies I ate last night. I mean, come on, there's nothing we can do, but what you can control is ahead of you. So recognize that and recognize that, as I said, a lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today, and the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.

Bobbi Rebell:
And now the third way that we can stop feeling bad about money, and I love this one because it is so specific, although you have some extra things you're going to add in here. Use the power tools at your disposal. I feel better about everything already just reading that.

Kelley Holland:
Well, you do have power tools. Look, let's be serious for a minute. Now money is, and we know at the end of the day, just a tool for living. That's what it is. No more, no less. We attach all kinds of emotional weight to it and we have all kinds of complicated feelings around it. That's why I wrote You Are Worthy. But it is just a tool and there are other tools that you can use to make good use of money. So one of these is automation. If you, for example, were to set up an automatic deposit from your paycheck every time so that you were putting 25 or 50 or a hundred dollars in a savings account, you would be building an emergency cushion for yourself and barely feel the pain if you just took it right off the top and you made a decision once to do that. And then just you're much more likely to let it run. So that's a power tool at your disposal.

Kelley Holland:
Another one is you don't have to do all the specific work of investing. You don't have to become an expert stock picker, if that's even a thing. You can invest using funds and you don't even have to invest in funds where you research the managers to find out who's super smart. You can use passive funds like index funds and many exchange-traded funds. I know you've had other guests on who've gone into detail about this, and I don't want to go down too far on that, but just using funds is a big time saver. Even financial writers like Michael Lewis will say that this just, when they do this, it saves them enormous amounts of time and worry. And then another one is harness-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, but let me just, I do want to caution though, what are the things that you need to look for when choosing a fund? Because even if you just look at the returns, it's a little bit more complicated in terms of what you will actually earn. I mean, some of them are a lot more expensive, for example, than others, and you have to know what you're paying for and whether you want to make that investment as well. I guess active versus passive, you've explained, but there are still fees involved.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, and it's a great idea to be really watchful of fees because if you think about, I mean, just the math is, over time, more or less, you're going to earn about 7% a year in the stock market if you smooth it out. So if you have a fund that charges a 1% management fee, you're giving away one seventh of what you could be earning. So just be very aware that even what might look like a small percentage for a fee can add up to a lot in terms of your returns and your performance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And then of course, time is money. Literally.

Kelley Holland:
That's your third power tool is the power of time. The sooner you can get your money invested and working for you, the more time the growth on your investment has to grow. And that's how you get that multiplier effect where you really can build wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of women might be hesitant to invest. For example, right now as we record this, we are in by some measures a bear market. People are very nervous about the stock market potential or current recession, however you choose to define it. What do you say to people who say, "Okay, I get it, but I'm just going to wait till things calm down," which is almost wait to do something in your life until you have "more" time. And that never really comes. What's your advice to people that are skittish about the market right now and very afraid? And it's a valid fear of losing money if they put it into the stock market or other investments.

Kelley Holland:
It's a very valid fear and the markets are choppy right now and they're more often than not going in one direction. They have been since January. It's really unpleasant. The first thing is take the long view. Recognize that if you're investing now, you're investing in a market that has fallen more than 10%. So you're better off investing now than you would've been in January. Second, you may be super brilliant, but none of us know exactly when the market will turn around. So it's impossible to know and the only way to participate in that eventual uptrend is to be in the market.

Kelley Holland:
And then the third thing I would say is that even after all that, if you're still nervous, it's perfectly fine to tiptoe in, just like tip toeing into the ocean instead of just diving under that wave. You can, if you have a thousand dollars to invest, invest $200 today, 200 next Monday, 200 the Monday after that, and so on. It's a perfectly fine way to invest. The key is to just get started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the biggest resistance you get from women when you were interviewing for this book? I don't want to call them excuses, but when people say, "Oh, I like your ideas, but it's just not going to happen because." What are you hearing from them and how do people overcome that?

Kelley Holland:
Well, for some of them, they just don't want to deal with it. I mean, when I interviewed these women, the offer was spend half an hour with me, talk about money. I'll anonymize your responses and I will offer you 30 minutes of free coaching. I only had two women sign up for the coaching. And I had other people spread the word about this whole thing and one of them answered back, "I'm not doing it. I would rather walk on hot colds, but I will tell my friends."

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why was that?

Kelley Holland:
Well, there's an version to entering this space because a lot of us feel less than capable. We don't like to do things we feel we're bad at. I mean, I'm not going to tell you the last time I picked up a tennis racket. It did not go well and I haven't done it in a long time. We don't like to engage with these things. We also can very easily feel overwhelmed. You and I both know that the world of finance is full of jargon and it feels kind of male. And even if you think about it, the language is pretty male. When you think about targeting return, beating the market, benchmarks, it's all, it's kind of male. We don't talk about, as a well-known study said, knitting a portfolio. It sounds weird, right? But that is what we do. So it's easy to feel unwelcome in this world. It's easy to feel ill-informed. And it's easy to feel like something's going to go wrong if you try it. So it's, for many women, easier to just look away.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the solution? How do you get them to the table?

Kelley Holland:
So the thing to switch, I think, is around mindset and around self-trust. Because when you have a sense of self-trust and self-worth in this space and you believe you can do this and you have clarity about why you would do it, the goals that managing your money will help you achieve, then you can go out and start building your net worth. You can get the skills, you can create the plan, and you can get to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, your book, You Are Worthy, is a great first step in that direction. Tell us more about where we can get the book and more importantly, where we can get in touch with you.

Kelley Holland:
Sure. So the book's available wherever books are sold. Patronize your local Indie bookstore, buy it from Amazon, everybody has it. And if you want to find me, you can get lots of resources on my website and the easiest way there is kelleyholland.com, which is, here's the tricky part, K-E-L-L-E-Yholland.com. And then you can also find me on Twitter, @KKelleyHolland, and on LinkedIn. And I spend a lot of time on both.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all of that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/CleanMyMac. B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/CleanMyMac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that point that Kelley made at the end about not wanting to do things that we are bad at. I mean, obvious, right? That's fine when it comes to something like what Kelley said about tennis, okay, of course. But it's not really optional when it comes to things like paying attention to and making intentional decisions about our money. What stands out to you from Kelley? I would love to hear from you. You can DM me at @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and at @bobbirebell on Twitter. And please check out my TikTok channel. I'm trying so hard. I really would love your feedback because I am definitely still figuring this one out.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, for those of you that do follow me on social media, you probably have seen that I'm starting to try to get out there more to more conferences and gatherings and see people IRL. I would love to get to meet some of you in person, so please reach out if you are having an event come up, either something with a group you belong to or your corporation wherever you work, I would love to be a part of it and help out. Just go to bobbirebell.com/speaking. Like I said, I would love to be part of it and help make a great event.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, make sure you're also following Kelley Holland. Her socials are in the show notes, which are available right on my website, bobbirebell.com. Just click on the podcast tab. You also get full transcripts there. Kelley is doing some great stuff on her book tour, so try to drop in on one of her appearances IRL or virtual. And with that, I want to say a big thanks to Kelley Holland for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Financial Grownup, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanMoney Mood, Wealth, Money Mindset, Kelley Holland, You Are Worthy, Author
How to invest in real estate without owning property with Scott Carson
How to invest in real estate without owning property with Scott Carson
 

Investing in notes can be profitable but it is complicated. Bobbi gets the basics and the red flags from WeCloseNotes.com’s Scott Carson

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. It was a lot of work, but I really love doing it, and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Scott Carson:
You have many people that walk away, especially in a recession. You have people that just bought a house, got laid off, unfortunately just left. Well, if they've got a really low interest rate on their mortgage, it's a great way for you to take over property without ever having to qualify for financing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what, grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you guys watching the stock market and getting a little nervous again? Maybe thinking it's time to actually look to diversify and look into new places to invest your money, places where it may not be as liquid, it may be a little bit more risky, but you at least have, as I mentioned, a little more diversification, and maybe can see some upside to the economic troubles that some people are calling a recession. This episode is going to be very interesting for you. We are going to be talking about an area of investing that I frankly don't know that much about. It is a way to invest in real estate without actually taking possession of and buying real estate. In other words, you aren't buying the property to live in or to renovate the property, to renovate and then flip it or be a landlord, an active landlord for years, managing it hands on the ground or paying a company to manage it. You're just using financial resources, money, to get some of the benefits of real estate as an investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a fantastic guest to explain to us how it works, and this is important, the red flags. Because while there is clearly opportunity, you have to know what you are doing. This is not for amateurs, but it is for anyone willing to put the time into it who has the right risk profile and is interested in diversification. It's really interesting, I was fascinated. My guest is Scott Carson. He is an entrepreneur, his company is called We Close Notes, and he also has a podcast called The Note Closers. And no, this is not the kind of note that you wrote on a post-it note. I was fascinated by it all. It's all going to be explained to you, it's going to make a lot of sense, and then you can decide if it's right for you. We're going to have some resources where you can get more information if you do want to proceed. But this is really interesting stuff that I wanted to know about, and I really wanted you guys all to know about, just as an option and potentially an opportunity for profit. Here is We Close Notes' Scott Carson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Scott Carson, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Scott Carson:
I'm honored to be here today to share our knowledge and just give to your audience after all those financial crimes that were listed today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I recruited you for this episode because the stock market has been a little bit scary, and I want people to know that there are other ways to invest, especially ways that you can still have some liquidity in different amounts, but the stock market is not the only game in town, and it doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy a property. I will explain more about that going forward, or something where it's not liquid. There are a lot of interesting ways that people can get more bang for their buck in terms of investing. And also, maybe a little bit more with interest rates rising, that creates a different opportunity in some ways. So, your company is called We Close Notes. Before we get into the opportunities, I want you to just explain where you're coming from, and your perspective and your experience.

Scott Carson:
I've been an active real estate investor for over 20 years. Previously a financial advisor with a little company called Smith Barney and Chase Bank back in the day. Got into mortgages and originating back in 2004, but literally have been buying notes, performing and non-performing notes, for the last 15 plus years, since 2008. When the last recession hit, I went from the origination side of the business to the de-origination side, and started buying mortgages direct from banks and hedge funds where people were not paying a mortgage. We make our money by buying that debt at a discount and then working it out with the homeowners to try to keep them in their houses with some sort of plan, without taking the property back. That's our preferred strategy actually, just to come back on track, back paying on time. It turns into a really good return for us, does good for the community, does good for the borrowers. As I like to say, we're making America great again, one defaulted mortgage at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to go through five ways to invest in real estate without owning property in just a minute. But I want to take a step back and have you explain, first of all, what do you mean by origination and what exactly is a note?

Scott Carson:
Good question. Origination, we'll start first with that, is where you're creating mortgages or you're getting somebody approved for a mortgage. When you go to buy a house, you usually need to get approved for a mortgage. What that means is that a mortgage broker will evaluate your financials to see what you qualify for. They are going out originating mortgages to Chase or Wells Fargo, or any of the 5,000 plus loan companies out there, basically originating mortgages that way. A note, basically, it's an IOU. If you have credit cards, student loan debt, car payment, mortgage, owe your brother Bubba five bucks, you're in the mortgage space, it's an IOU basically. That's a note space. I like to buy notes that are secured by real estate, which is basically mortgages. I primarily buy mortgages in the first lien or senior lien position. There are seconds or juniors and other things, lines of credit people may have against their houses and stuff like that. But I buy first lien mortgages backed by residential for real estate. Does that make sense?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and that is not the same as a treasury note, correct?

Scott Carson:
That's correct.

Bobbi Rebell:
We think of 10 year notes as treasury notes. This is not what we're talking about here.

Scott Carson:
Exactly. We're talking about the mortgages on the actual properties.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's get into our five ways to invest in real estate without owning property. The first way is wholesaling. Tell us about that.

Scott Carson:
Wholesaling is the process of finding a deal, finding a property or a note, finding something at below value, getting it under contract, and then flipping the paper or flipping that contract to another investor for commission. Let's say I'm driving around my neighborhood, which is a common way for investor. They see them ugly property, something that needs some work. They knock on the door, they know the owner and the owner just wants to get away from the property. They're like, "I can't rehab it, I can't fix it. I just want to be done with it." So they may put it under contract. Let's say the house, maybe with some work is worth 150, but they get under contract for 60 because that's what all the homeowner wants, and they're able to say, "Hey Scott, do you want to buy this property from me? I'll flip you the paper. I've got under contract for 60. You can buy my contract for 70 grand, and I'll make 10 grand as the wholesaler."

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're not necessarily putting your own money out there.

Scott Carson:
Exactly. You're basically just getting it under contract and flipping the contract to another end buyer who's willing to pay you commission. We've gotten wholesale fees from anywhere from $500 all the way up to $100 grand before.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Tricky to find though, right?

Scott Carson:
It's a lot of work. It's a lot of either direct mail or driving neighborhoods, knocking on doors. You've got to be really good and be a bird dog for a lot of people out there buying. You can make great money like that, but I don't really consider that truly investing because you're just flipping the paper. You're constantly working. There's not really anything coming in long term from it, but it's a great way. Most investors in the real estate side, that's how they get started. Wholesaling and figuring out what's going in their markets, and then either flipping paper or flipping properties that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you know a market well, it is something that can make sense for you because you have a sense of what things are really worth versus what people in a certain situation are willing to take to get out of a precarious situation. Okay, number two, buying a note, your specialty.

Scott Carson:
This is my specialty. Most people think when you say buying the note, that means you're buying the property. No, you're buying the debt and becoming, technically, the bank. Now, the beautiful thing about this is you control the real estate without actually owning it. What I mean by when I buy note, I literally buy the mortgage from a bank. I'm usually buying it a big discount, 50, 60 cents on the dollar. But the borrower still owes that money. They still owe what they owe. So let's use some simple math. Let's say they borrow, they bought a house, they get laid off of work, the house was worth a hundred, they financed a hundred. Well, they haven't paid in six months to a year, and then maybe they owe 110 now with back payments. Well, they haven't paid in a year. That bank will often be looking to sell that mortgage, that non-performing note, off to investors like me.

Scott Carson:
I could come in, offer the bank, let's just say 50 grand on a hundred thousand dollar house. Well, I buy the note, I now become the bank, the lender, and I make my money by then negotiating with the homeowner. Say, "Listen, Mr. Homeowner. I know you're behind, you had COVID or laid off of work. You owe 110. I know that previous bank wanted you pay the full year of back payments or six months, you can't afford it. What can you afford? Let's work out a payment plan and get you back on track." So if their interest rate, let's say was 5%, and I bought that note at 50 cents of the dollar, if I get them back on track, that's technically a 10% annualized return to me, which is a pretty good ROI to me.

Scott Carson:
If they keep paying for 12 months to me, then I could technically turn around and sell that note to Wall Street or other investors at 85, 90, 95 cents on the dollar. And if I paid 50 and sell it at 85, I just made a 35% profit on it, plus cashflow along the way. So I like that aspect. I don't want to own real estate. I've been an investor, but buying the note allows for you to control their real estate, work with the homeowners to keep them in their properties if they can. If they don't pay, then we go the route to foreclose because we have the same rights as the bank does.

Bobbi Rebell:
The next one is a little bit of a gray area, to be fair, because we did say not owning property. So it's taking over property, subject to current financing. Explain that, this is sort of a blend.

Scott Carson:
It is a bit of a blend. You have many people out there who live in a property and then can either a) no longer afford to sell their property because they can't afford to pay the commissions, they owe more than the property's worth and they just want to walk away from it. We've dealt with subject to deals like this, what we call subject to deals, where we will step in, take over the mortgage payments of the property, subject to the existing financing and either a) pay the homeowners to walk, make up their arrearages or whatever they're behind on, pay up the taxes. People will walk away from assets all the time. And why this is an advantage to the borrower versus them just walking away is it keeps the foreclosure off their record, which will ruin their credit for seven years.

Scott Carson:
We set these subject to deals basically about three years. It gives us time to make payments on behalf of the bar. What we will do is either put a render in the property that's paying above what the full mortgage payment is, or we'll owner finance property to somebody else in a wraparound mortgage. You should always have an attorney to help you out with this title companies, and professionals out there on the paperwork to make sure everything is disclosed properly, and making sure you're not violating state rules or laws or anything like that.

Scott Carson:
But you have many people that walk away, especially in a recession. You have people that just bought a house, got laid, unfortunately just left. Well, if they've got a really low interest rate on their mortgage, it's a great way for you to take over property without ever having to qualify for financing. One of the great things people don't know is most mortgages were completely assumable prior to 1985, and then VA loans were basically the only ones that were assumable. But me being the bank, if somebody wants to take over the loan on a note, I'm always willing to do that as long as I get paid. And most banks won't care. They do have what's called a due-on-sale clause, and if you're doing a subject to deal and transferring, it looks like a sale. But most of the time the banks aren't going to force it as long as they start getting paid on time. A bank would rather hold a note that's now re performing, versus going through all the problem with foreclose and then take the property back, especially if it's in a state that has a long foreclosure timeframe.

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting, especially because, by some definitions, we are in a recession right now, so that is an opportunity for somebody. Number four is become a private lender. Tricky, you really have to have capital. How realistic is that?

Scott Carson:
It's actually very realistic. If you've got a 401k from a previous company of some sort, and you move it into a self-directed IRA of some sort, you can often lend money out to other investors at above average rate returns. 6, 7, 8, 10, 12% to investors who are looking to buy real estate or need money to flip. A great way to find people that are looking for these type of investor loans is attending your local real estate investor clubs or networks. There's a whole secondary market of investors that are lending money out, 25, 50 grand, on fix and flips and other things out there.

Scott Carson:
A lot of people think if I live in California, I need 1 million to buy a property. Well, no, there's plenty of people that have bought property, but they needed a little bit of help with repairs to fix up the property, to sell it off on the secondary market. We've actually helped a lot of our students get started as private investors if they've got 25, 50 grand, just to get the ball rolling.

Bobbi Rebell:
The advantage to that is that if you can pair up with somebody who knows what they're doing in terms of flipping a house or something, the other person might have the expertise and you have the financing. So not everyone has both. You may not have the expertise and know where to begin with that. They may know what they're doing and maybe they just need more money to get the properties that they intend to flip, and they have the market expertise to do it. The fifth one is taking over payments and then owner financing to another buyer investor. That sounds complicated, a little bit intimidating.

Scott Carson:
It seems like it, but it isn't. But we talked previously about taking over property subject to. I know a lot of people don't want to be into the three Ts, toilets, tenants and trash outs. They don't want to do that. But if you take over property subject to, and it's got a low interest rate, let's just say 3, 4%... Many people are looking to buy a property that can't qualify traditionally and would be happy to pay a higher interest rate of 8 or 9%, that can bring a sizeable down payment down and have you carry the terms of that mortgage for two years, three years while they work to get their credit back on track, and then they can refinance after a period of time. As always, you always want to have an attorney help with your paperwork and close at a title company, and create the paperwork so it's Dodd-Frank compliant, and there's plenty of RMLOS out there that can help you create that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to throw a bonus question at you and we have not discussed this in advance, but can you talk to us, another way to invest in real estate without owning property hands-on is REIT. Can you talk about what a REIT is, and the opportunities there?

Scott Carson:
Yeah. A real estate investments trust is a company that has a variety of real estate investments in there. It's a fund and they jump through the hoops of the SEC. Most of the time, it's usually a lot of larger commercial properties in a REIT in a lot of cases, and you can buy a share, and invest in that REIT as a small part of the overall portfolio. And they will usually be paying back an annual return on investment. Often, sometimes, maybe get a little share of the profit on the back end too, as well. But usually, it's just like an investment stock, but in individual stocks of a company, you're buying a share of one commercial property or a portfolio of properties as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, in this rising rate environment, because we do expect the fed to continue to raise rates, and that in turn impacting the housing market, talk about how that affects this whole idea of investing this, whole strategy of investing.

Scott Carson:
Well, you've got to make sure that your money's not losing value every day. With inflation, stuff like that, our buying power is reducing dramatically in a lot of cases, and you want to be buying something that's got fixed assets to be returning on a solid return to you. That's why cash flowing real estate, buying a rental property that's cash flowing, or investing in a note, because notes do really, really well, and maintain the ROIs as far as continuing to pay. It's a lot of opportunity for you. You got to take advantage of it and be putting money into things like that as part of your portfolio.

Scott Carson:
As always, you want to make sure it's balanced, make sure you're investing in something that you have knowledge in or learning to learn knowledge, and always seek your professionals out there. The biggest mistake you can make as an investor is invested something you have no clue about, or you just listened to a podcast. Go listen to the professionals, talk to people who are doing it. There's plenty of professionals around you to do that, to help you guide your way and hold your hand along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. But you can learn a lot from a podcast, including yours, which has over a million downloads. So quickly tell us about that, and where people can be in touch with you.

Scott Carson:
Yeah. We have the number one podcast in the note investment industry called the Note Closers Show. Like I said, 700 plus episodes. It's a mixture of me teaching specific nuggets about note investing, and then also bringing on great guest experts. Bobbi will be on here shortly, vendors, and other investors in the industry to help you learn firsthand experience from what their journey has been. Their tips or tools, and strategies to help them maximize, and turn problem properties into profitable solution. You can always find the episodes on any of your podcast platforms, but you can also check out the website, weclosenotes.com that's weclosenotes.com. If you're listing, make sure, if you listen to this podcast, make sure you hit that subscribe button and leave Bobbi a five star review. We as podcasters love to hear from our audience, so do Bobbi a favor and hit subscribe and leave a message.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Scott Carson:
Hey, thanks for having to me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out, for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer, because you're not as organized as you should be, because you get caught up and all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop, just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I downloaded something called Clean my Mac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And Clean My Mac would ask me for my okay before deleting files, so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get Clean My Mac. To get that 10% off Clean My Mac, you do need to go to my link. It is BobbiRebell.com/CleanMyMac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/CleanMyMac. And that is all one word.

Bobbi Rebell:
I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me, let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends, that was a lot, but really good stuff. I encourage everyone to go to my website. Just my name, BobbiRebell.com, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L, where a transcript is available, so you can review all that information if you are interested. Of course, there's a summary via the show notes as well, right there for you. Absolutely feel free to be in touch with Scott through his website at weclosenotes.com. His podcast, The Note Closer, sets over a million downloads, so that is another great resource for a ton of information to get you started. I do want to remind everyone, you need to know what you are doing if you want to do this kind of investing. But lots of interesting stuff there, and potentially lots of opportunity.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to do more episodes on investing and opportunities for you, so please be in touch and let me know the topics you want me to cover. What do you want to learn more about? You can be in touch by DMing me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, that's number one, or on Twitter @BobbiRebell. I am also including money tips and investing information in my newsletter, so you can sign up for that right on my website. Super easy, just my name, BobbiRebell.com. Scott and I, by the way, connected through a conference where I spoke, and I would love to get out there and help more people with their money and with investing, and just knowing more about parenting kids and teaching kids about money. So please be in touch through my website, just BobbiRebell.com/speaking if you would like me to come and speak to your group. Of course, big thanks to Scott Carson of WeCloseNotes.com for his help in helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup. The podcast, and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast, is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media, @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and @BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Entrepreneurs, Financial Grownup, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanReal Estate, Real Estate Investing
A grownup conversation about ETF’s vs. Mutual Funds with TOAMS Financial’s Mario Payne
A grownup conversation about ETF’s vs. Mutual Funds with TOAMS Financial’s Mario Payne
 

Bobbi and Mario discuss the pro’s and cons of Exchange Traded Funds and Mutual Funds, including the dangerous and potentially very expensive red flags grownups need to know about before they invest. 

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. It was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon, those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Mario Payne:
That probably means that it got lucky one year, but over three or five years, not so much. It's like a basketball player, a basketball player might have one good year, but over five years, if they're not good, not so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, grownups. This episode is one I have been wanting to do for quite some time for all of you. We're going to answer the questions so many of you have been asking about investing in ETFs versus mutual funds, now, an ETF stands for exchange traded fund, whether maybe in some cases it makes sense to have both in your portfolio, for example, to serve different needs, at different times in your life, for different purposes, different goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
My guest is Mario Payne. Mario not only runs his own company, TOAMS Financial, he also has launched his own ETF. The symbol is LETB, L-E-T-B. I also want to point out, and this is important, that Mario is a fiduciary, he is a certified financial planner. That means he is someone who puts the needs of his clients first, something we grownups know to always ask for.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, Mario and I cover the differences in investments that go into ETFs and mutual funds, basically how they work, how decisions are made, what the flexibility is of each one, what the downsides are, the pros and the cons also, regarding how expenses work, and what to look for when you're making a decision. We also talk about taxes and how the different vehicles fit into your investing and retirement goals. Most importantly, you need to stay to the end for this, we talk about some very scary and potentially expensive red flags that we all need to watch out for, especially some that, frankly, I had never really thought about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Mario Payne of TOAMS Financial and the LETB ETF.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Mario Payne, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Mario Payne:
I am a grownup. Thank you for having me, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I invited you on this podcast because you are an expert in ETFs and you're going to be giving us some tips on ETFs and how we can all better invest with our eyes open and really understand the difference between ETFs and mutual funds, as well as other kinds of investments. A lot of people don't really know a lot about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, you were very much in the ETF business this past February. Your company launched an ETF, tell us more about that. It's on the New York Stock Exchange, by the way, the symbol, I like this too, L-E-T-B, LETB. Tell us about that decision and what's involved in setting up an ETF, because a lot of companies would really just go with a mutual fund. You chose an ETF.

Mario Payne:
We launched our fund February of this year. We've been doing the same strategy in my practice since 2019, as the market continues to go up. Before 2022, of course, we had some great returns for our clients. As we launched, it was great, because as the market was going down our clients inside our ETF have not been affected as much a negative way. Yes, there's still losses. Nobody knows, but God, the future, so we don't know from a day-to-day basis how your money's going to grow, but if we're able to have your money grow consistently and not have the dips of the market, then you should be in good shape. We hope that our ETF continues to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just to time stamp this, we are recording this in August of 2022. If you listen to this further into the future, you can at least put it in context. Hopefully, the market will be up from here. But tell us about ETFs. A lot of our listeners are confused sometimes about why or what is the difference between an ETF and a mutual fund, can you explain it, and then we'll get into some of the different nuances that people should also be aware of when they're making investment decisions.

Mario Payne:
An ETF is called an exchange traded fund. E, exchange, T, traded, F, fund. It's sold actually on the New York Stock Exchange or on the stock market, so it's liquid. If I sell an ETF, it's like selling a stock. I'm able to get my money back right then and there, it's liquid, it doesn't take as many days to settle. A mutual fund is not sold directly on the New York Stock Exchange. It's sold through the company it's with, the fund company. You have what you call NAV, net asset value, which is different than shares on the market. It's not as of liquid. If you sell a mutual fund, it can take up to three business days to settle, which means it may take you longer to take the money out of your account after you sold that investment. That's really one of the differences.

Mario Payne:
Another difference is, from an investment standpoint, the expense ratio. Typically when it comes to an ETF they historically, not all, but historically they have a lower expense ratio. An expense ratio is the hidden fee that you pay for that ETF provider to manage and hold that fund. With mutual funds, historically, those expense ratios are a little bit higher. If I have a higher expense ratio, my performance may not be as good. If I have the same let's say $10,000 to make the math easy and I have one ETF that has the expense ratio of let's just say 1% and I have a mutual fund, same investments, same performance, but that expense rates ratio is 2%, well, that 1%, which would be a hundred dollars, is less than $200 with the mutual fund. All things being equal, my ETF will perform better with the same investments than my mutual fund, because the expenses are not as much. Those are really the two big differences between an ETF and a mutual fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was on the debate team in high school. I was actually president, very proud of it still. I'm going to throw a debate question your way. What you've said so far basically makes the case saying ETFs are a slam dunk, so much better, they're cheaper, you can access your money better, but Mario, a lot of people still buy mutual funds. Make the case for mutual funds, there must be some advantages.

Mario Payne:
Yeah, in its advantage, you're definitely diversified. A mutual fund is a pool of invest. Think about a swimming pool. If we have a hundred swimmers, we might have 90 swimmers that are doing great, they're free styling, they're doing the backstroke, breaststrokes, they're doing all types of swimming moves that the average person cannot do, and then you might have five swimmers that are not doing good at all. A mutual fund manager will act as a lifeguard. He or she will take those bad swimmers or bad stocks out of that pool. The thought process is if we continue to take out the bad stocks or bad swimmers at that pool, then my mutual fund is going to grow. Since it's diversified, if I have enough good and not as many bad, then even with the market going down, hopefully your mutual fund does not go down as much as the market. That is the case for a mutual fund.

Mario Payne:
Also with the mutual fund, from a retirement planning standpoint, if you have a 401k, a 403B, a deferred comp retirement plan, those mutual funds offer target date funds. If I am 40 years old, per se, and I want to retire when I'm 60, I might get me a target date fund that's in the year 2040 or 2045. That mutual fund, on a quarterly and annual basis, changes the way that investment in that mutual fund is invested to be where your age is. As I get older, it's going to be more conservative. If I'm younger, it's going to be more aggressive. That allows you not to have to check your balance on a day-to-day basis, not look at the market, not make changes in your 401k, your 457, because that target date does it for you. Those are some advantages of a mutual fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like there's legitimate reason why the costs are higher and it's just a question of what your priorities and your needs are, which kind of investment vehicle you're going to use. Within a mutual fund, you've just explained how the manager can make adjustments based on their judgment on how different stocks are going to perform. Is an ETF managed at all? Can someone come in and make adjustments or is it set in stone, sort of what's in it is what's in it is what's it?

Mario Payne:
That's a great question. You have two types of ETFs. You have passive ETFs and you have active ETFs. The passive ETFs are things that are like an S&P 500 ETF or NASDAQ or a Dow Jones ETF, where it just mirrors what the index is. The S&P 500, top 500 companies in America, there are different ETFs that just pick those five stocks and they just let it be. Since this passive is not being managed, no one is picking up one bad stock, putting in another good stock. If the index is down, you're down. If the index is up, you're up. It's not being managed.

Mario Payne:
But then you have active ETFs, and our fund, LETB, that is an active ETF, where it is actively being managed just like a mutual fund. If it's good stocks, great. The bad stocks that are inside that ETF, then that ETF manager, he or she is pulling those out. With our ETF, LETB, it's automated. We have proprietary systems that automatically pick and choose what investments from a stock standpoint are going good. We put those in there, what investments are about to go down, and we hope to take those bad investments out that ETF before it happens so we can maximize your gains and minimize your losses. So depending on what type of ETF that you have.

Mario Payne:
Now, typically, a passive ETF, since it's less management, it's going to be less. The expense ratios on a passive ETF are very, very low compared to an active ETF. An active ETF, those expense ratios that you don't see, but they're there, they're going to be a little bit more.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do not sell any shares of a mutual fund or an ETF, do you sometimes pay taxes if the manager is selling the assets inside, if they're switching out the different stocks that they have, the different holdings, and there are capital gains within there? How does that impact your taxes year to year and your cost basis, if at all?

Mario Payne:
Yeah, great question, two part. From a dividend standpoint, if that ETF or mutual fund is paying you a dividend, then yes, you will receive a 1099 if it's in a non-retirement account. If it's inside a retirement account, like a Roth IRA, traditional IRA, 401k, then no, you're not going to receive a 1099. But if it's not a dividend, the only way that ... Well, let me take that back. If it is a dividend, then you will pay taxes. If it's not a dividend, then no.

Mario Payne:
What happens is that if the mutual fund manager or the ETF manager in an active ETF are making changes, that's built into that expense ratio and they charge taxes inside the fund. You will not receive a 1099 or a tax form. In January, if it's a $100 stock that's bought, and in December it's sold for $50, that $50 gain, you're not going to get a 1099 for because it's inside of that fund. Now, it's going to be a charge, it's going to be a charge and that's going to be tied into your expense ratio, again, that hidden fee that you're paying that you don't see, but as far as getting a separate 1099 because he or she is actively managing your ETF or your mutual fund, no, you will not receive a 1099 for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, I want to ask you, can you discuss the red flags investors should look for if they're interested in investing in ETFs, and then separately red flags for mutual funds?

Mario Payne:
Number one, expense ratio. Yes, expense ratio means a lot of management, but that does not mean it's good management. If the expense ratio is high, we might want to pump the brakes. That's number one, from a mutual fund standpoint and a ETF standpoint.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be high? Ballpark, what would be a red flag number?

Mario Payne:
Huh, That's tough. It's some mutual funds out there that have expense ratios that could be 1.5, 2, 2.5%.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's high, those numbers are high.

Mario Payne:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Mario Payne:
There's also different share classes you want to look into as well. When it comes to mutual funds, they have A shares, they have C shares, they have F1 shares. Those different shares depends on the price and the cost. Some, like C shares for instance, they may be a little bit higher, but then an A share, most people don't do upfront commissions anymore, but they do have A share investors, we pay an upfront commission, but then that hidden expense ratio that you don't see is very, very low. You want to look at the expense ratio.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you're buying a mutual fund through somebody, you should ask, "Are you getting a commission?" It's fine if they are, you should just be aware of it okay with it. Correct?

Mario Payne:
Correct. The certified financial planner in me, because I am a fiduciary, historically, fee-based is typically the best way to go from a just investment standpoint. Yes, it is a fee on an annual basis, but then a person can move from one investment to another, not have to worry about, "I charge you a commission, let me wait for two years because I don't want to overcharge you." You really should not be anything commission based anyways, to be honest. A lot of brokerage firms, not all of them, actually waived fees and commissions on ETF sales a couple years ago when the whole Robinhood explosion came and everybody was going to Robinhood in 2020 and 2019 because of the no commission. There really shouldn't be any commissions out there anyways, just to be honest with you.

Mario Payne:
That's my fiduciary hat, let me take that off and let me go back to the mutual fund and ETF expert. Another red flag, you do not want to, in my humble opinion, invest in something unless it has a nice track record. A one year track record in a five or 10 year bad track record does not mean it's a good fund, because every mutual fund and every ETF has what you call a prospectus. It's the legal document that tells you the historical information about the fund, how it's been invested, the managers, what it invested in. You can also Google fact sheet, so you can also go to Google and Google the fact sheet, which gives you that information. But it tells you the one year, the three year, the five year average.

Mario Payne:
It might be having a one year average that's very, very good, but then the three to five year average is not good at all. That probably means that it got lucky one year, but over three to five years, not so much. It's like a basketball player. A basketball player might have one good year, but over five years, if they're not good, not so much. You want to have a consistent good return.Those are some red flags to look at.

Mario Payne:
Also, funds that invest in "hot stock", the new funds that pop up, that they invest in hot stocks, you want to watch out for that. Last thing as well, performance wise, you have a lot of ETFs that are called leveraged ETFs, very important. A leveraged ETF is when the stock market goes up, it goes up double or triple. If you have a double leveraged ETF, if the stock market makes 1% for the day, that ETF is going to make 2%. That feels great, I've doubled the stock market. If the stock market goes up by 2% for the day, it makes 4%, that doubles the stock market.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sounds great.

Mario Payne:
Yeah, I know, right? But the bad part about that is when the stock market goes down, you lose double. The stock market goes down by 1%, you lose 2%, the stock market goes down by 2%, you lose 4%. If your risk tolerance is not aggressive to be okay with the roller coaster down and definitely okay with the roller coaster up, you might want to stay away from leveraged ETFs. Those leveraged ETFs usually have better performance than all ETFs because, again, they either double or sometimes triple the stock market.

Mario Payne:
Now, if you're an aggressive investor, you have that appetite for a diversification standpoint, you might want to look at that for some of your money from a ETF standpoint, but definitely just be careful because a leveraged ETF, the performance is great, but this year, right from January 1st to June, before the market bottom on June 13th, those leveraged ETFs did very, very, very bad compared to the market. You just want to watch out from a performance standpoint, if that's your end all be all, how to make the most money. Leveraged ETFs will look good from a performance standpoint, but I hope you have the stomach during the ups and the downs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think people think they have the stomach until they don't. On that note, where can people get in touch with you and learn more about you and your ETF?

Mario Payne:
Yeah, yeah. Google, you can Google LETB ETF, our social media, our website, www.toamsfinancial. Our social media is TOAMS Financial. Again, our ETF, you just literally just Google LETB ETF. It's on all platforms, robinhood, Fidelity, TD Ameritrade. LETB gives you all the information we have, our fact sheets. The great thing about ETS and funds, they're transparent, so you can see our performance for the year as we did not go down as much as the market, how we invested, how we've been in cash for most of the year, so as the market's been going down, we've been in cash so you can't lose money when your money's in cash unless the word inflation comes up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was about to say, we've got a little bit of inflation going on, Mario, but I'll let investors make that decision themselves.

Mario Payne:
Yeah, but literally just TOAMS Financial on all social media platforms and then LETB, L-E-T-B, B as a boy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my grownup friends, I told you those red flags were going to be eyeopening. What have your experiences been when it comes to investing in mutual funds or ETFs? Did you get any surprises, good experiences, not so good experiences? I'd love to hear from you. Get in touch, you can DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, or on Twitter @BobbiRebell. Also, I want to help you learn more about personal finance and investing, so get on my newsletter list so I can send you more valuable information. You can sign up right on my website, at bobbirebell.com. Big thanks to Mario Payne of TOAMS Financial for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts, reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grown up friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanMario Payne, TOAMS Financial, CFP®
What’s on your investing playlist? with Alinea Investing’s Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani
What’s on your investing playlist? with Alinea Investing’s Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani
 

Talking Fintok, Robinhood, crypto, meme stocks and getting social with your investing habits with the founders of community investing platform Alinea

 
 
 
 

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Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

  1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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  3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.



Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids, and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends, and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super-important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Anam Lakhani:
Investing is such a social habit. I think that's what's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single-player mode, but the reason we're seeing this phenomenon FinTok, which is financial TikTok. And really finance coming in to social media, is because people want to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard, but together, we got this. Okay, my friends. Who here has an investing playlist? You might be inspired to put one together and maybe get some friends into it as well after listening to this episode. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani founded Alinea with a focus on portfolios, which they call playlists. Their app is all about community and education, right down to the much more calming color palette that they have, compared to the jarring bright reds and greens that we see on more of the old-school investing apps. In our interview, the Alinea founders share how they came up with the ideas behind the app that led to them raising a couple million dollars right out of the gate.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, some unique investing tips to get you started or give you a few new ideas to upgrade your investing playlist, AKA portfolio. One highlight to listen for in our interview, their reference to Warren Buffett and how his ideas apply more than ever to today's investor and to the Alinea community. We also get their thoughts on the crypto market, and how to approach that these days as well. No worries as usual about taking notes, we'll have the full transcript for you with the show notes. Here are Alinea founders, Eve Halimi, and Anam Lakhani. Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani, you are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before we get started, I forgot to tell you guys this. Whenever we have two guests, I do have each person say hello and their name, so our listeners can tell who is talking at each time. So Eve, say hello.

Eve Halimi:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Eve. All right. Anam, say hello.

Anam Lakhani:
Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the launch of Alinea. You guys are 25 years old. You're getting a ton of press coverage already. I love this Business Insider headline, the Gen Z founders of Alinea. You raised $2.1 million for your anti-Robin Hood investing app. First of all, do you agree with the headline that you are an anti-Robin Hood investing app? And then tell us more about that. The whole $2 million thing.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think more than anti-Robin Hood, we're anti-day trading. We're anti-having just exclusivity within the investing and financial world. And with Alinea, we're really hoping to bring in a larger demographic, a more inclusive and younger demographic, to the financial world so they can start achieving financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Eve, you guys are so young, and you're both women. We hear so much about how much funding goes to men. Certainly sometimes more seasoned men. How did you guys raise 2 million at this age? Because so many people have aspirational, entrepreneurial ideas, and it's not easy.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah, it was definitely difficult. It was a lot of work, but I mean, when you're so passionate about something and you are so determined and you move fast, you will find the right investors who will back you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Eve Halimi:
We went through Y Combinator. So applying through YC, getting in, which is an incredibly competitive incubator, puts you at an edge and gives you an edge, essentially, when you're fundraising. So investors know you have a stamp of credibility at that time and at that point, which is very helpful for a young entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Anam, how did you guys even get this idea and come together with it? Were you watching apps like Robin Hood? And I don't mean to call them out. I'm just alluding to that Business Insider headline.

Eve Halimi:
We can call them out. We can call them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, you guys do that.

Anam Lakhani:
It's a great story. So we had come together our fall semester of senior year, and we had returned from these internships on Wall Street. We were both studying economics, and there was this big elephant in the room. We didn't know how to invest our own money. We saw this problem with our friends across both genders, honestly. There was definitely a bit of a confidence gap between those two genders, but we saw that there's this huge problem. And it really fundamentally boils down to two things. It's community and education. So there's a lack of community. If you don't know where to start, investing is such a social habit.

Anam Lakhani:
I think that's the most underrated thing. It is something you can do single player mode. But the reason we're seeing this phenomenon, FinTok, which is financial TikTok, and really finance coming into social media is because people want to talk about it. And they always have. And the second component is education. Only 14 states in the United States mandate personal finance classes in high school. And even being at Columbia University, studying economics, we still didn't have that personal finance knowledge. So those were two things we wanted to tackle to really make investing more inclusive and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I noticed is that even during the pandemic, people were craving that social interaction. There was a lot of discussion of stocks, like meme stocks on places like Reddit and obviously TikTok, with FinTok and MoneyTok. People are craving that social interaction, but it can also be dangerous. So it's interesting that you guys have a place where maybe there could be more vetted conversations with people that are not necessarily, well, sometimes you don't know what people's motives are. But there's a lot of people that got sucked into a gamification of investing, rather than having your peers as a support system in the way that you set up the app. And obviously, I am alluding to the gamification that we see in places like Robin Hood. Can you talk a little bit about the way that your app, that Alinea is set up, and how you avoid gamification and yet support community?

Anam Lakhani:
We really think about it as this long-term journey you're on. It's like your fitness journey. If you're going to the gym, you have a gym buddy, you're talking to your friends about it. You have a community where you often go to, and that's so prevalent with fitness. And we wanted to really foster and create this community where it's not just about making the next buck as quickly as possible, but really being consistent and staying on this path. And so everything from the design of the app, to our messaging, to really our values as a brand and a community boil down to that. This is not something that you're going to make a quick buck on, but really to have people close to you for the long ride.

Eve Halimi:
Unlike other investing apps, we never really focus on the single stocks and single stock mentality. We always focused on portfolios and ETFs, which we renamed as playlists, investing playlists to make them more accessible. And we also never really leaned into the red and the greens, the really intense colors that make you panic. We kept pastel colors and more neutral colors.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, because especially with the stock market as rough as it has been for so many people, and really many people certainly, and Gen Z have not in their lifetime, seen a bear market in their experience like we see now. I think calming colors is so important. Those subtle touches. And I do love the idea of a playlist, because it does make it so much more accessible. And it also makes it something that you want to talk about in a positive sense, not in a sense of panic or a braggy sense. Because what I would overhear, and I'm dating myself here, but among my young adult children in the pandemic was, "Oh my gosh, my friend bought shares of Hertz and of AMC, and they're making so much money. Maybe I should be buying that now too." And it was a FOMO mentality. This is very different, right?

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I think from the get-go, we really push people to invest in ideas and what they believe in, whether that's a cause or an industry. And when you frame it that way, the conversation becomes a lot different. You are literally invested, as opposed to making the next big buck on AMC or GameStop. Because it truly aligns with your identity. And I think what the financial world hasn't seen is these elements of creativity and authenticity come into their own personal finances. And that's what we're really trying to do at Alinea.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, you did bring some investing tips for our financial grownups. So let's just go through them. You have three main ones, and then something I want to send people to on your app that I think will be really great. So the first tip has to do with spreading the love a little bit, right?

Anam Lakhani:
Hundred percent. This is a journey, it's a long-term journey. So bring your friends into the conversation, talk to them about it. I started investing because of Eve. And we would always have conversations, and she would suggest investments to me. So it's really important to have your friends along for the ride, not only to just be more knowledgeable, but also have that motivation and support.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you start a conversation with friends about investing, especially when people have different resources to invest different stages of their life, depending on what's going on? There could be a wide variety at your age, or at any age, frankly.

Eve Halimi:
I think the first conversation that starts with investing money is where do I start? What do I even start with? I don't know how much to invest and I don't know what to invest in. And that's where friends and a community is really helpful. Because you're all alone with all these questions at the beginning, with no support system.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then you obviously want to supplement it with trusted sources. And by the way, Alinea does have a ton of editorial content. And that's really important, because not all of your friends will be as knowledgeable as they think they are. And I guess I'm putting that kindly. There are people that sometimes do get caught up in all the chit chat and maybe believe that they're very well-intentioned, but they may not have the best advice. So always, of course, be true to yourself. Your goals may be very different from your friends, and your resources may be very different. So you don't want to stretch yourself too far. Another thing is to diversify. So tell us about that second tip.

Eve Halimi:
Yeah. We're big fans of Warren Buffett at Alinea. So as Warren Buffett advises new investors is to start with the S&P 500. And that's the number one investing tip we give to new users getting on the app, because you can start investing in the S&P with as little as a dollar. It's a great way to diversify your in investments and to spread your first initial investment across the top 500 US companies.

Anam Lakhani:
A hundred percent. I mean, diversification, it's key to Alinea. We built Alinea so you don't have to worry about, am I picking the right company? Because there's no such thing as the right company. It's about making sure that you're investing, based on your identity and causes and industries you truly care about, and you think that are going to succeed over the next five to 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your third investing tip has to do with really making it a habit, investing regularly.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's important.

Eve Halimi:
Dollar cost averaging is a strategy we all employ here. Recurring investments is one that we opt in all the time, because timing the market is not as great as time in the market.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. A hundred percent. Just investing very, it is a habit. It's like, you can't go to the gym once. You can't eat a salad once or twice a year. That's not enough, and you're not going to see the best results that way. And so really making it consistently a habit. I think people are always surprised by how much further a little amount can go if you're regular about it. And it's just not about throwing chunks in when you feel like it's the right time. It also really alleviates the pressure when you're doing it regularly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally. Yes. So I want to ask you guys before I let you go, tell me your thoughts on the crypto market. Because that's something where a lot of people had FOMO, and then finally jumped in, only to see the value of their crypto go down. And in some cases, depending where it was kept, really not even have access to it to even liquidate if they wanted to. What is your take on crypto? What is your advice to people who have invested in crypto, or are interested in the market in general?

Anam Lakhani:
This is a perfect example of why diversifying your investment is so important. It's totally okay. I'm a crypto investor and I have a little bit of money there, but it's also important to have your money in other places as well, like stocks or bonds. And making sure you have that diversification. If you have invested in crypto, I think as an investor, you need to ask yourself if your thesis truly stands true to you. If you are a believer in the technology and what's behind it, definitely don't just panic and sell because you're seeing other people doing that. Crypto's a newer asset, and the cyclicality and volatility of it is much higher because of that.

Eve Halimi:
But also, I will say, we are seeing more and more correlations between the equity space and the crypto space. And in my vision of things, I do think the crypto space, because it's gotten so affected in the past few months, is going to get less affected as compared to the equity space. And I will say, do not invest in a cryptocurrency without reading the white paper without doing your research. It's very important that you understand the tech behind it, and you understand the value proposition of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's interesting. I love that you guys said that, because it really is true. People do want to take shortcuts. They do want to just get a tip from, whether it's TikTok or Reddit and so on. What's your warning to them, to people that just sort of, we value our peers' advice. That was your first tip, but that doesn't mean you don't also do separate homework. Some of which can be really hard. It's not easy to just read all the little fine print, Eve. It's intimidating.

Eve Halimi:
That is true. But I think there's a ton of resources out there. It doesn't take too long to do some quick Google searches and to find, especially we have a ton of resources on our blog, on our website, about crypto. I believe that you shouldn't be putting in money into a cryptocurrency or into the markets in general without doing some kind of research.

Anam Lakhani:
And it's also about staying true to yourself. Why are you doing this? Why are you investing in that? Do you really believe that this is something that you believe is going to increase in value? So having that personal thesis as well, you see a lot of professional investors have a thesis, and it's important to have that personal thesis as you go along this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Just tell me a little bit more about the concept of a personal thesis when it comes to investing.

Anam Lakhani:
I was talking to one of our community members and he said, he's like, "I'm long FinTech. I truly believe that FinTech, I know it's crashing and sinking and tumbling, but I'm long FinTech. I believe in the industry. And I know it's going to come up." And I was so impressed, because this individual has a personal thesis. So it's important to have that just so again, takes the pressure off, and you're remaining true to yourself and thinking with that thesis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. You guys have amazing resources on Alinea, one of which is a quiz. Tell me a little bit about that.

Anam Lakhani:
Yeah. So I mean, one of the pain points we saw is our community members just didn't know where to start investing, or what to invest in. And so we thought, let's make this a little bit easier. And we developed a quiz in-house that creates a playlist for you, based on your interest, risks and company you're excited about.

Eve Halimi:
And a playlist, just to recap, is a mini-portfolio, essentially, a mini-baskets of investments that can be stocks, ETFs, crypto, and bonds. We really help you based on what your risk outlook is, what's the investing space, and your interests are to construct a portfolio from the get-go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are great. Thank you for joining me. Tell us more about where people can find not just Alinea, but also you guys on social and be in touch.

Eve Halimi:
Our website is Alinea-invest.com, and there you'll find all our socials. We're Alinea Invest on most of our social platforms, on TikTok, on Instagram and so on. We also have personal accounts for Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani that you can follow, where we're constantly trying to provide more and more investment education.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you both.

Anam Lakhani:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think it was interesting to note that the ladies are seeing more correlation between the crypto space and the equity space. But also take note of their warning to make sure if you do invest in crypto, you must read the white paper and do your research. You. On you, not on your friends, on you. So you understand the technology and the value proposition. Don't just go on a tip from a friend from Reddit or from FinTech. You need to do the work. It's your investment. I would love to hear your thoughts on Alinea and other new investing apps that are becoming available and taking a different approach. Are you open to these new platforms? Are you looking for them? What do you want? What new features appeal most to you? Do you have a playlist that you want to share? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell. And please check out my new TikTok channel.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am trying my best. I would love all of your support. My TikTok channel is actually a finalist for a Plutus Award. So I'm so excited about that. You can check it out just under my name, Bobbi Rebell on TikTok. And if you are not already subscribed or a follower of this podcast, please click that button and consider writing a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I not only appreciate the support, I really need it. So thank you in advance for that. It means a lot. Check out Alinea's quiz, by the way, that the ladies mentioned. That can help you create your first playlist, AKA a mini-portfolio for you. We're going to leave a link to that in the show notes, along with all of their social handles. And big thanks to Eve Halimi and Anam Lakhani of Alinea for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, Money, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanAlinea, Alinea Invest, Eve and Anam, Eve Halimi, Anam Lakhani
From the “Birds and the Bees” to the "Dollars and the Cents” with Disrupt Yourself host Whitney Johnson
From the “Birds and the Bees” to the "Dollars and the Cents” with Disrupt Yourself host Whitney Johnson
 

Bobbi chats with popular author and keynote speaker Whitney Johnson about how we can disrupt the traditional ways of talking to our kids about money to meet them where they are, boost their confidence and get comfortable revealing own financial struggles.   

 
 
 
 

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Money can be one of the hardest things to talk about with your kids- because it is so emotional and because we as parents often hide our own struggles from our kids. 

I have spent the past few months since the release of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life While Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart” talking to a long list of exceptional journalists, podcast hosts and experts. 

And one of the real stand out ones was with someone who is very familiar to many of you because I have had her on repeatedly to share her wisdom with our financial grownup community. It is Whitney Johnson and for those of you who are not yet subscribed to her Disrupt Yourself podcast you are in for a treat. Guests on the podcast have included the world’s best thinkers and do-ers: names like Adam Grant, Simon Sinek, Benee Brown and Susan Cain- and recently yours truly. 

I feel honored to be in such incredible company- and you may hear me getting a little nervous in this interview but Whitney got a lot of stuff out of me that I don’t normally discuss in public and she also adds in her exceptional take on how we can teach the next generation about money. 

I’m so excited to share my chat with Whitney Johnson on her Disrupt Yourself podcast. 

 
Advice, Authors, Family + Relationships, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanDisrupt Yourself, whitney johnson
Why is it so Difficult to Talk to Your Kids about Money with Chris Browning
Why is it so Difficult to Talk to Your Kids about Money with Chris Browning
 

Bobbi shares her chat with Popcorn Finance podcast host Chris Browning. They focus on the best ways to transition teenagers to financial independence and more. 

 
 
 
 

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We are in full back to school season and for parents it is a big time of transition. Our kids are ready to do things - but sometimes we aren’t ready to let them. This gets amplified when we have teenagers- those of you who aren’t there yet- just go with it and trust me. You are in for a ride. 

That’s why I loved my discussion with Chris Browning on his Popcorn Finance podcast. We talk about how transitioning from dependent teen to a financially independent grown up can be extremely tough, not only for that individual, but also for their parents 

Chris and I break down how to discuss money and plan for the future from both the parents and the children's perspective. So whether you're a parent or just have a young person you care about- you will get so much out of this episode. 

And don’t forget to follow or subscribe to the popcorn finance podcast. The format is great and Chris covers so many topics - each episode is short but I will warn you- popcorn finance is bingeworthy and you will have a hard time pressing pause. 

Enjoy my chat with Chris Browning on the Popcorn Finance podcast. 

 
Advice, Family + Relationships, Personal Finance, MoneyBobbi Rebell KaufmanChris Browning, Popcorn Finance, Kids and Money, Money and Kids
How To Get Adult Children To Launch with Marriage Kids and Money podcast host Andy Hill
How To Get Adult Children To Launch with Marriage Kids and Money podcast host Andy Hill
 

Bobbi joins Marriage Kids and Money host Andy Hill to talk about everything from realistic money discussions with kids, letting your emerging adults make money mistakes and preventing boomerang kids. 

Bobbi Rebell and Andy Hill review the following:

  • The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

  • Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

  • The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

  • How to prevent boomerang kids

 
 
 
 

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Worried about your adult child moving back home? You're not alone! Boomerang kids are a group of adult children who move back in with their parents after going out into the world. 

John, a concerned parent of a teen, wants to make sure his daughter doesn’t do this! 

Author Bobbi Rebell joins me to share how we can get adult children to launch (and stay launched).

Bobbi Rebell and I review the following:

  • The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

  • Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

  • The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

  • How to prevent boomerang kids

 
Advice, Entrepreneurs, Family + Relationships, Financial Grownup, Money, Personal FinanceBobbi Rebell KaufmanAndy Hill, Podcast Guest, Podcast Episode, Marriage Kids and Money, Podcast Host, Financial Grownup, Children, Kids and Money
Setting Teens up for Financial Success as an Adult with Lacey Langford
Setting Teens up for Financial Success as an Adult with Lacey Langford
 

Bobbi shares her interview with Lacey Langford on the Military Money show. Topics included common mistakes and bad habits to avoid, finding balance in your approach, creating a healthy family ecosystem, and protecting your own retirement

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


Hey grownups- I hope everyone is enjoying their summer. I'm taking some time off but I am super excited about the interview I am going to share with you this week  -  because it is with one of my favorite people- Lacey Langford. on her podcast, the Military Money Show.

In our interview we share ways to set teens up for financial success as adults, and of course my new book Launching Financial Grownups.

We cover everything from common mistakes and bad habits to avoid to Creating a healthy family ecosystem and protecting your own retirement

Lacey is someone I instantly bonded with when I met her several years ago- she has that natural gift for making everyone around her feel like it's all going to be ok. That resilience and grounded approach probably comes from her childhood as - in her words- an Army brat. She served in the U.S. Air Force. She married her Air Force sweetheart and they now have two little Army brats of their own- her words not mine.

In addition to the podcast, Lacey runs a conference called MilMoneycon and is an Accredited Financial Counselor® with over 15 years of financial planning, counseling, and coaching experience.

I hope you enjoy my interview with Lacey.

Parents want the best for their kids. Because of that, it’s a balancing act of helping them and helping them help themselves. That applies to finances too.

In this episode, I talk to Bobbi Rebell about how to set your teens and young adults up for financial success. Bobbi is a CFP® and the author of Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. She is a financial literacy advocate, the host of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast, and the founder of GrownupGear.com. Bobbi was previously a global business news anchor and personal finance columnist at Reuters and held various journalist positions at top news outlets, including CNBC, CNN, and PBS.

Bobbi shares what you can do now to help your kids be financially successful on their own. From budgeting and saving to understanding their first 401k, and homeownership Bobbi gives some practical steps on how to go about it.

 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanLacey Langford, Military Money Show
Taking stock of your grownup life with Dr. Jordan Grumet aka "Doc G"
Taking stock of your grownup life with Dr. Jordan Grumet aka "Doc G"
 

The author of Taking Stock: A Hospice Doctor’s Advice on Financial Independence, Building Wealth, and Living a Regret-Free Life, Dr. Jordan Grumet shares his top money tips learned from working with patients in hospice care. 

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


 
Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJordan Grumet, Doc G, Taking Stock, Author, Earn & Invest