Flame Newton is turning his criminal past success in identity theft to educate and empower others. The author and credit expert shares his money tips on credit cards, protecting your identity and much more to help us all be financial grownups.

Flame’s Money Story

Aw man. I always take a deep breath before I do that, because anytime I get into this area, I like to make sure it's detailed. I like to make sure that you understand it and it's clear. That I misinterpret nothing that I've said or going to say, or getting ready to say. And that was, I was the bad guy, right? I went to jail for murder and I went to jail for bank robbery. Right. That's what I went to jail for. What I did was I rob people and I killed them while they were still living. And they have a term for it and have a word for it. That word is called identity thief. I went to prison for a very long time based upon that, right? Because I did something in the eyes of the government they never seen, heard, or even done before.

Flame Newton:
And I know you got all misjudgments about me right now, as you listening to this. But I like to make sure that you hear it right out of the horse's mouth, as they say. What I did was wrong, wrong to the utmost. But when the government said I did was I only stole people identities that had a 600 credit score or below. So not the 700 or higher that everyone was so in love with. What I did was, is I was able to clean their credit up and then attach it to a business to go get money from. Now, although that my method was wrong, the process wasn't. And so I ended up going to prison. And while I was there, there were guys that was there and they was always talking to me. And they would say the same thing like you was talking about earlier Bobbi. You know what they would say to me? Man, I sure wish they would've taught me credit in school.

Flame Newton:
That got me to thinking. A lot of these people that are in prison contrary to your belief, are there for monetary value. And what does that mean? The reason that they was there was for something pertaining to money and you can say, well, he killed him. He killed him because he was trying to get some money. Somebody owed him some money, some type of relevance to it. He there for robbery. Robbing somebody to get some money. Say he there for drugs. Selling drugs to get some money. And you start to add these things up. What they don't know is pretty much what we talked about earlier. The fact that stuff was not talked about in heavily populated areas. And so being understand of that magnitude, I'm able to teach.

Flame Newton:
And one of the biggest compliments that I've ever getting is when a kid had asked me one time, I'm sitting in prison and he asked me, he said, Flame, could you read this to me? Read. And the word was tomorrow. Couldn't believe it. See things that we take for granted, these things really weigh down on other people like, reading.

Flame Newton:
Now, although that he could tell you about 28 grams is 28 grams. And understanding the ounces and because he's dealing with drugs all day. And he learned the numbers in that magnitude, even count money all day long pertaining to it. But he didn't know the magnitude of things like reading. And I said, what if you read something that you like? And so when we get into these type of components pertaining to it, I'm understanding, and I make sure that on every single platform that I've ever been on, will never be one that I would never say the words that I'm apologetic on all get up for every single thing and every victim that I've ever affected. I make sure of that. I don't hesitate that. But with that being said, along this life, we have journeys and this was just one of mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you actually go to jail for?

Flame Newton:
I went to jail for identity theft, money laundering, and bank fraud. So what I did was I took people’s identity, attach it to a business and went in and got a lot of money from it. What I was doing was cleaning up the negative items to make them appear as more trustworthy than they actually were, getting the banks to give out money to that particular person. That was when I would go get the money and take off in that manner. Money that they didn't even know that it existed from the people that I took the identities from.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that's really scary.

Flame Newton:
Over 75% of the American public, that once they fall in debt, they go back into debt within the two to three year window. Why? Because they have not been educated about it. So the more that they can get educated about something pertaining to what fuel, I'm just talking about credit.

Flame’s Money Lesson

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you actually go to jail for?

Flame Newton:
I went to jail for identity theft, money laundering, and bank fraud. So what I did was I took people, identity, attach it to a business and went in and got a lot of money from it. What I was doing was cleaning up the negative items to make them appear as more trustworthy than they actually were, getting the banks to give out money to that particular person. That was when I would go get the money and take off in that manner. Money that they didn't even know that it existed from the people that I took the identities from.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that's really scary.

Flame Newton:
Over 75% of the American public, that once they fall in debt, they go back into debt within the two to three year window. Why? Because they have not been educated about it. So the more that they can get educated about something pertaining to what fuel, I'm just talking about credit.

Flame’s Money Tip

Flame Newton:
And the tip that I'm going to give you for this is watch this. You pull out your credit card right now. I need everybody to pull out your credit card. If you driving just keep driving, don't do it while you driving. But right now I want you to pull out your credit card. If the front doesn't match the back, that card is whack. If the front says Chase, the back of your card must say Chase. But if the front of your card, now I love Victoria Secret. Victoria Secret, we love you too. But if your front of your card says, Victoria Secret and the back of your card says Synchrony Bank, that's not a great quality credit card. You like bank issued credit cards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Tell us why.

Flame Newton:
Because That is a quality lender. And a quality lender meaning that that point, that bank have gave you money. They didn't give you goods or services for money. I like to explain it in this way. Like Home Depot. Home Depot has a great company. I love Home Depot to death. But if Home Depot gives you let's say, a $2,000 line of credit and you go buy refrigerator for a $1,000. If you buy a refrigerator for a $1,000, that refrigerator might've cost Home Depot $200. So if it cost Home Depot $200, that means you paid one fifth of the price of that. So if you didn't pay back Home Depot that thousand, lets say you didn't pay them back. What was the loss to Home Depot? Was the loss $1,000 or was it $200? The bank issue is going to lose more so the risk is going to be higher, which makes it a more quality card.

Follow Flame!

• Instagram - @flamenewton

• Facebook - @followflame1127

• Flame’s website - http://flamenewton.com

• Flame’s Book - The School of Credit

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, teas, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates if you can't decide. Use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Flame Newton:
You know what they would say to me? Man, I sure wish they would've taught me credit in school. And that got me to thinking. A lot of these people that are in prison contrary to your belief, are there for monetary value. And what does that mean? The reason that they was there was for something pertaining to money. And you can say, well, he killed him. He killed him because he was trying to get some money. Somebody owed him some money, some type of relevance to it. He there for robbery, robbing somebody to get some money. Say he there for drugs, he selling drugs to get some money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being grown up is hard, but together we got this. Hey friends, this is going to be a very different and a very important episode. Normally we talk a lot about things like staying out of debt, and financial literacy, and the consequences of not doing those things of not knowing what's going on with your money. But what about financial literacy to stay out of prison, to not commit crimes? That is what my guest Flame Newton wanted to talk about. He spent about a decade of his life serving time for identity theft. And head a lot from fellow prisoners about why they were there. And in almost every case, Flame says the crime was tied to money in some way. It brings the importance of financial literacy to a whole new level.

Bobbi Rebell:
This man has a lot to say that makes sense, but you have to pay close attention. So this is an episode you really want to be present for. I hope all of you get as much out of this interview as I did. It is really, really good. Here is school of credits, Flame Newton. Flame Newton, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Flame Newton:
Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for being here. And by the way, we connected on Clubhouse. So you're my first Clubhouse find. So I'm so excited because you have the most amazing backstory and you have incredible advice. I do a little homework on my guests Flame, and this was on your Facebook page and it's very appropriate to our grownup audience. You say the phrase I get tired of hearing is, "They didn't teach us this when we were growing up. News flash, you grown up now. So you better learn it. Or this thing called life will teach you." Tell me more about that and your general philosophy. And then we're going to get into more about you.

Flame Newton:
Wow, Bobbi. One thing that I can say pertaining to that, we listened to a lot of people in a different manner of ways. And one of the ways that as a collective group of individuals, they coming together and they always have this quite saying. And that saying is, man, they didn't teach me this when I grew up. Right? And so all of these things amongst that, or my parents didn't teach me this. And they'll say all of these different things, but what we must know and what we must understand is that at this point, this world is not the world that we had it when we grew up. It's not. And that's something that we have to come to grips on, is the fact that now we in a position now to creatively get information from all walks of life.

Flame Newton:
I mean, even think about our children now, right? And our children, they have friends all over this globe. All right. And it's all based upon the technology that we have in advance. So pertaining to just utilizing the school system, getting the school system to teach us things. Right. Or even passing judgment down to our parents who actually never taught as well. And when you start to base it upon that, now you start to say, you know what? Now it's up to me. Why? Because now I'm kind of adapted to what my children are doing. What is that? I'm adapted to the globe because they have this thing and it starts with www. And when you say www, let's let it be understood and what it is. It's called the world wide web, right? The first word tells you everything, the world. And so you can get different perspectives pertaining to the information that you don't know from people that are all over the globe, all over America.

Flame Newton:
So if you're looking for information pertaining to something that can make you better, you have these places. And they're a lot of free places. And we can talk about them. Places like Google. And I understand Google have a lot of bad information and misinformation, but there's also some good ones there too. So let's not discredit those. They also have places like YouTube, even the social media networks like Facebook, or even going down to where you got me at, which was Clubhouse, right? And a collective group of these places that have pertaining to a lot of this information, we just have to buckle down and get it into a point to where we got to find out what matters to us most. What we're going to quit doing, is we're going to quit making up excuses and bringing up the past as a reason for why we're not moving towards the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree. Could not agree more. And we could talk about this all day, but I want our listeners to learn more about you and your backstory. Because you are highly intelligent and you are a student for sure. And unfortunately earlier in your life, you use that for some, well, some things you went to prison for. Tell us more about that.

Flame Newton:
Aw man. I always take a deep breath before I do that, because anytime I get into this area, I like to make sure it's detailed. I like to make sure that you understand it and it's clear. That I misinterpret nothing that I've said or going to say, or getting ready to say. And that was, I was the bad guy, right? I went to jail for murder and I went to jail for bank robbery. Right. That's what I went to jail for. What I did was I rob people and I killed them while they were still living. And they have a term for it and have a word for it. That word is called identity thief. I went to prison for a very long time based upon that, right? Because I did something in the eyes of the government they never seen, heard, or even done before.

Flame Newton:
And I know you got all misjudgments about me right now, as you listening to this. But I like to make sure that you hear it right out of the horse's mouth, as they say. What I did was wrong, wrong to the utmost. But when the government said I did was I only stole people identities that had a 600 credit score or below. So not the 700 or higher that everyone was so in love with. What I did was, is I was able to clean their credit up and then attach it to a business to go get money from. Now, although that my method was wrong, the process wasn't. And so I ended up going to prison. And while I was there, there were guys that was there and they was always talking to me. And they would say the same thing like you was talking about earlier Bobbi. You know what they would say to me? Man, I sure wish they would've taught me credit in school.

Flame Newton:
That got me to thinking. A lot of these people that are in prison contrary to your belief, are there for monetary value. And what does that mean? The reason that they was there was for something pertaining to money and you can say, well, he killed him. He killed him because he was trying to get some money. Somebody owed him some money, some type of relevance to it. He there for robbery. Robbing somebody to get some money. Say he there for drugs. Selling drugs to get some money. And you start to add these things up. What they don't know is pretty much what we talked about earlier. The fact that stuff was not talked about in heavily populated areas. And so being understand of that magnitude, I'm able to teach.

Flame Newton:
And one of the biggest compliments that I've ever getting is when a kid had asked me one time, I'm sitting in prison and he asked me, he said, Flame, could you read this to me? Read. And the word was tomorrow. Couldn't believe it. See things that we take for granted, these things really weigh down on other people like, reading.

Flame Newton:
Now, although that he could tell you about 28 grams is 28 grams. And understanding the ounces and because he's dealing with drugs all day. And he learned the numbers in that magnitude, even count money all day long pertaining to it. But he didn't know the magnitude of things like reading. And I said, what if you read something that you like? And so when we get into these type of components pertaining to it, I'm understanding, and I make sure that on every single platform that I've ever been on, will never be one that I would never say the words that I'm apologetic on all get up for every single thing and every victim that I've ever affected. I make sure of that. I don't hesitate that. But with that being said, along this life, we have journeys and this was just one of mine.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you actually go to jail for?

Flame Newton:
I went to jail for identity theft, money laundering, and bank fraud. So what I did was I took people, identity, attach it to a business and went in and got a lot of money from it. What I was doing was cleaning up the negative items to make them appear as more trustworthy than they actually were, getting the banks to give out money to that particular person. That was when I would go get the money and take off in that manner. Money that they didn't even know that it existed from the people that I took the identities from.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that's really scary.

Flame Newton:
Over 75% of the American public, that once they fall in debt, they go back into debt within the two to three year window. Why? Because they have not been educated about it. So the more that they can get educated about something pertaining to what fuel, I'm just talking about credit.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is one thing people can look at and boost that score?

Flame Newton:
It's not your score. So let's leave that right there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh okay.

Flame Newton:
And I'm going to come back. I got you Bobbi. Watch this. Watch this Bobbi. I got you. I want you to be concerned with the contents which is on your credit profile. Again, the items that are on your credit profile, I want you to take heed to those items that are there, understanding that they have these things call quality lenders. Right. Quality lenders. These lenders are considered measurements. They're considered the high's to the high. Now the Bank of America's, the Wells Fargo's, the Chase's, Capital One's, the Cities, Barclays, even the US banks. You have some of those quality lenders that are on your profile.

Flame Newton:
And the tip that I'm going to give you for this is watch this. You pull out your credit card right now. I need everybody to pull out your credit card. If you driving just keep driving, don't do it while you driving. But right now I want you to pull out your credit card. If the front doesn't match the back, that card is whack. If the front says Chase, the back of your card must say Chase. But if the front of your card, now I love Victoria Secret. Victoria Secret, we love you too. But if your front of your card says, Victoria Secret and the back of your card says Synchrony Bank, that's not a great quality credit card. You like bank issued credit cards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Tell us why.

Flame Newton:
Because That is a quality lender. And a quality lender meaning that that point, that bank have gave you money. They didn't give you goods or services for money. I like to explain it in this way. Like Home Depot. Home Depot has a great company. I love Home Depot to death. But if Home Depot gives you let's say, a $2,000 line of credit and you go buy refrigerator for a $1,000. If you buy a refrigerator for a $1,000, that refrigerator might've cost Home Depot $200. So if it cost Home Depot $200, that means you paid one fifth of the price of that. So if you didn't pay back Home Depot that thousand, lets say you didn't pay them back. What was the loss to Home Depot? Was the loss $1,000 or was it $200? The bank issue is going to lose more so the risk is going to be higher, which makes it a more quality card. That make any sense?

Bobbi Rebell:
It makes total sense. And I have never seen that argument frame that way and I'm processing it. And I'm going to keep thinking about it because you make a really interesting point. I want to get to where people can find you. I know you have a lot of amazing resources. I can't believe you created this in only a little over a year since you've been out. But tell us more about where people can find you and how they can learn from all that you have to offer?

Flame Newton:
Great. I appreciate it. One is I have a book which is called The School of Credit: Learn and Mastered the 12 Levels of the American Credit System, which is on Amazon. Definitely, that is something that I want you to go tap into. It's a great foundation. This is one of the books that goes down with the greats. When I'm saying greats, I'm saying the greatest books of all times, such as the Webster's dictionary, such as the encyclopedias, and those sort of ordeal. So it's in a different caliber. Also, you can find me, you can reach out to me at flame@flamenewton.com. Again, that is flame@flamenewton.com. I'm always on Clubhouse. You can find me on social media sites. I been away from Instagram. I'm starting to get over there now. Also, Facebook, all under Flame Newton. And other than that, man, listen, when you see me, man, I stop, I talk, I laugh. We joke. We kick it. We have fun. This a good time. You know what I mean? Or if not, we're going to figure out how to make it a good time. Other than that, appreciate that Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. And people want to know Flame, your real name?

Flame Newton:
Flame Newton.

Bobbi Rebell:
Given by your mother. Really? That's amazing. Love it. All right. Thank you so much.

Flame Newton:
I mean, I appreciate you having me on this podcast. I'm excited for the people that are just getting started on their credit journey. I'm appreciative of people that are trying to overcome something and don't feel like they can overcome it. I'm excited for you by Bobbi and the podcast, to see which direction that it's going to grow. I do appreciate you. And I thank you. And I'm humbled on all levels.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot here, but here's some things that stood out to me. Stop making excuses and saying, so-and-so, didn't teach you. Well, if you're a grown up, go out and educate yourself. In the past, you could say you didn't have access to information. Well now, as Flame points out, we do have information. We have the internet. You have to be careful. There is misinformation out there, but you can, and you need to get educated and take responsibility for it yourself. Flame also doesn't like store credit cards. Well, the basic premise is that they have less to lose if you default. His feeling, is that their validation of your credit worthiness may not have the same high bar as a bank credit card. It's an interesting theory and something we should think about. Flame also warrants that the majority of people are repeat offenders when it comes to getting into debt. So if that is you, stop the cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing you should definitely not do is go into debt buying presents for friends and loved ones this season. There's a lot of celebrations coming up. I get it. But please check out the affordable gifts on my website, grownupgear.com. And as a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 credit card to grown up gear each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. And maybe we can also call it financial independence day. There are two ways to enter to win. Take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media, Instagram specifically. And tag me @bobbirebell1. And then also email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter is to write a review of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast on Apple Podcasts. Take a screenshot and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. Big thanks to Flame Newton for sharing so generously with us and helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Well. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grown-ups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

It is wedding season! To celebrate we talked to Sarah Miller and Nichole Holmes of the show that asks the engaged to jointly make a big choice: A solid starter home- or a lifetime of memories with loved ones at a big wedding. The choice may seem simple- but if you listen you will see it is both financial and emotional. 

Sarah and Nichole’s Money Story

Bobbi Rebell:
I did my homework. You were both cast on the show. So you did not come up with the original concept. What was it like when they first came to you, and they came to you individually with this concept? What was your gut reaction?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. I loved it. I honestly thought it was fake at first. I was like, "Am I getting scammed? What's going on here?" Because I've never been on TV or any of that stuff before. So it was surreal to me. But yeah, after they really pitched it to me, I loved it. It's just what I do every single day just with cameras added to it. So I signed on immediately. I loved it.

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole, and I was on board from the get-go. It was such a great idea. I was a little hesitant, not knowing how they would edit you and things like that, but I am blown away with the editing skills and how amazing the show looks. I'm super excited about all of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
This show teaches so many financial lessons, budgeting, making tough financial choices, money, values. What is your money script, a lot of people would say? Tell us about what you've learned in listening to all of the people on the show that makes you think, how have you guys evolved through all of this?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. So I think it's just, you have to listen to your clients. I mean, this is something again that Nichole and I both do in every day life. So we're trying to fill somebody's dreams and trying to expand their budgets and really give them the utopia of what they're looking for. So I think with the show, the biggest part was us listening to really what was important to them and trying to bring that to reality so they could actually have a hard time choosing either the house or the wedding.

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole. It just reminded me about when I was younger and didn't make the smartest financial decisions because we have some fairly young couples on the show that did choose wedding, and I just saw myself in their eyes. I get it because I was given the option when I was getting married the first time. My dad said, "Are you sure that you don't want to take this chunk of money and put it on a down payment on a home or have two really nice cars in the driveway?" or whatever, and I was like, "No, Daddy, I have to have my big day." So now twice divorced and 47 years old, and now that I'm in real estate, I just cringe at how much money I could have made had I actually put it down on an asset rather than just a day.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys both bring a lot of life experience to the show, and one thing that I love is that you don't judge. Nichole, you just talked about your own life experiences, your own really important money story. And yet you hold back a little, you give them some room. Is that hard? What's that like?

Nichole Holmes:
I want them to do the smartest thing financially that I think is the smartest, and then we've got Sarah thinking they need to invest in these memories. And so I always say this in almost every interview, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." So all I can do is present the best package possible, show them the best houses, hit all of their top wishes and wants, and hope that they make a sound investment in land or a house.

Sarah Miller:
Nichole doesn't hold back, by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're both really good about managing expectations. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because many of these couples have really saved up for many years, these amounts of money, which are generally about $30,000, that is their life savings. And yet they can't always get their dream wedding or their dream house when they're realistic about you can't get everything. You guys are good at that. Tell us a little bit about that and the psychology of managing expectations from a financial perspective.

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. Again, I think it's just all about smart money and dumb money, especially when you're planning a wedding. It's like, listen, put your money where it's going to shine the most, what's most important to you. Let's highlight those areas and scale back on the rest. Because, again, coming into wedding planning, if they only have a small amount of budget allocated to this, then we have to figure out what to do with it. If they put a chose a house and a wedding, they wouldn't be our clients right now. It's one or the other. So we have to make sure that we can maximize it in the right way that makes sense for where they're at in their life at that moment.

Nichole Holmes:
Right. And as a real estate agent, I have to listen to what's most important. There's no such thing as a perfect house, and you're never going to find that dream home, when you're on a budget, I should say. You can find it if you're not on a budget. But if you're working with a budget, I just have to take what's most important to them, just like Sarah said she does with the weddings. And if it's a yard that they want it, if it's the extra bedroom so they can have an at home office or the right school system, all of that goes into play and you just have to let them know that, "The list that you gave me isn't possible. I will show you on paper. Here is the house that you're talking about," and show them how much money that is and how much over budget. So then they get it. And it's, again, exactly what you said, it's managing their expectations.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've both been in your field for a substantial amount of time. Nichole, you've been in real estate, I think, full time, for more than a decade. And Sarah, you're about the same, so what's up. But you also have seen the social media evolution and how that has influenced people's expectations. Tell me more about that. I mean, I think we had a donut wall in an episode. And to be fair, you have the wedding shows, but you also have these home shows where people have these dream shows. I mean, really, how has that changed people's expectations in terms of what they prioritize and how far their money will go?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. I think on the show, we did a really good job with keeping in with our budgets. Again, we're not trying to over, I guess, over, what's the word, over show them anything that they really can't afford.

Nichole Holmes:
Over sell them.

Sarah Miller:
Over sell them, yeah exactly. We're trying to meet their expectations, but expanding those areas that were really important to them. So when you refer to the donut wall with that one couple, they wanted something unique that would run through social media. That's their era, their age. They were all about a show-stopping conversation piece at their wedding. So that's where that came in. But, again, I feel like the show in households nowadays helps viewers know that there are certain things that they can't afford. They just need to be open-minded about the other areas if they want their specific things.

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah, and this is Nichole. So when people are house shopping, they do a lot of it online now. So it's a good thing and a bad thing to a realtor.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah.

Nichole Holmes:
Because a lot of those websites that they go to, they aren't updated, and so they think that these homes are available and the market is so hot right now in middle Tennessee and Davidson County, specifically, houses are on the markets for hours and then they get snatched up. And so it's making our jobs as realtors a little bit harder because they will send you this list and you're like, "Well, stick with the list I sent you, because this is what's available. Whatever you're sending me and you're finding, you don't have access to the present, the real time houses." So that can get a little bit tricky.

Bobbi Rebell:
So the show was filmed before the pandemic. And, of course, some of the weddings were affected by the pandemic. A lot's changed, so you're still in touch with a lot of the couples that you worked with. Tell me what's been going on with them. Have there been regrets? Have there been, "Oh, I'm so glad I made that choice because of the pandemic and how I feel now"?

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah. From a real estate side, they're thrilled because housing prices are still going up.

Sarah Miller:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nichole Holmes:
They already equity in their home and they've been in for less than a year or about a year at this point. So I don't have any of my couples that chose house that are upset with their decision.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah, this is Sarah. Same thing on the wedding side. I think, again, the pandemic had a lot to do with wedding changes and stress and all of that stuff, but all the weddings from the show, they actually did go through, they just had to shift around a little bit. So, but yeah, I think everybody had an amazing time, and no matter if it was eight people to 100 people.

Sarah and Nichole’s Money Lesson

Bobbi Rebell:
What lessons have you guys learned in this whole process about money and psychology and the emotion of it and the practicality of it?

Nichole Holmes:
I think we learned more negotiating skills-

Sarah Miller:
Than anything.

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah, and it's judging the couples and what's important to them when we make our final pitches at the end of the show. You can see in their eyes, like when Sarah mentioned the donut wall was going to get thrown in, that boy's eyes lit up. He couldn't have been happier had she offered him a million dollars, I think. He was just so thrilled he was going to get the donut wall.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah, we were just talking how amazing of a concept it is. It's so funny because, when I'm planning weddings every single day, the clients aren't saying, "Oh, well, I don't know if I can plan my wedding because we're about to choose a house." So this is great that we actually have to battle for this and really try to figure out what's really important to them and what they want to choose.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because when people see the title, the logical intellectual one goes, "Of course, you would choose a house." But we're not wired that way as humans necessarily.

Sarah Miller:
I agree, and I love that. I get a lot of flack for being the wedding planner. They're like, "How could you? What are you doing?" I'm like, "Listen, love is love. It is what it is." If people didn't choose wedding, it wouldn't be a show.

Sarah and Nichole’s Money Tips

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole. So I think it's super important to find a seasoned realtor that knows what they're doing and who has closed a lot of deals, because the negotiations can get intense, especially in a heated market, like it is now. And a good realtor can negotiate and literally save their clients thousands and thousands of dollars by the time it's all said and done.

Bobbi Rebell:
So work with a human, and one that's the right fit for you?

Nichole Holmes:
Oh absolutely. The fun part is finding the house and that's easy. It's after you write the contract and get to the closing table that everything can go sideways. And it does a lot of the time. So you need someone who is seasoned and knows what they're doing to keep everything on track and going in the right direction.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah, what's your money tip?

Sarah Miller:
I dido Nichole's thing that she said as well. Hire a professional first. Hire a wedding planner, because going into planning a wedding, number one, you have to have a budget in mind. Number two, hiring a professional is going to save you countless hours over research and time. So if you can start with that and then also jump into it and talk about like your most important parts. Talk about smart money and dumb money. Put your money where you really want it to shine and scale back on those other things.

Follow Sarah!

• Instagram - @southernvineco

• Sarah’s website - https://southernvineco.com

Follow Nichole!

• Instagram - @nicholeholmesrealty

• Nichole’s website -

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, T's, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code "grownup" for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Nichole Holmes:
When Sarah mentioned the donut wall was going to get thrown in, that boy's eyes lit up. He couldn't have been happier had she offered him a million dollars, I think. He was just so thrilled he was going to get the donut wall.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips For Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this. Hello, my grownup friends. So as you heard in that cold open, Instagram worthy, show's stopping, sounds like, a donut wall at a wedding are a big part of what makes the Netflix series, Marriage or Mortgage, binge-worthy TV. And if you don't know what a donut wall is, well, go do that quick visit to Instagram. It'll tell you all you need to know. On each episode of Marriage or Mortgage, a couple with a limited budget, usually around $30,000, meets with each of the show's hosts, wedding planner, Sarah Miller, and realtor, Nichole Holmes, who show them what each option would look like within their budget. And yes, it is a contest and, yes, the hosts are competitive. They are out to win over the couple who have to make a choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the two hosts pull all kinds of stunts from customizing and staging homes in very personalized and eccentric ways to, yes, donut walls for weddings. And by the way, that was a big thing for that guy. Anyway, beneath all the icing on the cakes, Marriage or Mortgage actually has a very serious financial learning premise. What would you do if you literally could either have a home to start your married life in or a wedding where you have all your friends and family celebrating a huge adulting milestone in your life and creating a lifetime of memories, especially after this year that we've had, when we really treasure those memories? Gut reaction among you guys, I bet it's probably the house. That was my knee-jerk reaction too, but take a step back and think about how our culture has evolved.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about all that talk about experiences over stuff? Isn't a wedding where all the people you care about and love share an incredible experience? Isn't that important. And home is not always the best investment, let's face it. And in fact, many people don't want to own a home and renting has become a popular choice. Home ownership, by the way, can have a lot of hidden financial unwelcome surprises. So you see? It does get a little complicated, and there are definite parts of the show that reflect a weird experiment in behavioral economics. Can you tell I love this show? On that note, here are the hosts, Sarah Miller and Nichole Holmes. Sarah Miller, Nichole Holmes, you are both financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Nichole Holmes:
Thank you so much for having us.

Sarah Miller:
We're so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is such a gift for me because I am a super fan of both of you and your Netflix hit show, Marriage or Mortgage. First of all, congratulations on all the success and the buzz this is getting.

Nichole Holmes:
Thank you so much.

Sarah Miller:
We love it. We love it. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I did my homework. You were both cast on the show. So you did not come up with the original concept. What was it like when they first came to you, and they came to you individually with this concept? What was your gut reaction?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. I loved it. I honestly thought it was fake at first. I was like, "Am I getting scammed? What's going on here?" Because I've never been on TV or any of that stuff before. So it was surreal to me. But yeah, after they really pitched it to me, I loved it. It's just what I do every single day just with cameras added to it. So I signed on immediately. I loved it.

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole, and I was on board from the get-go. It was such a great idea. I was a little hesitant, not knowing how they would edit you and things like that, but I am blown away with the editing skills and how amazing the show looks. I'm super excited about all of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
This show teaches so many financial lessons, budgeting, making tough financial choices, money, values. What is your money script, a lot of people would say? Tell us about what you've learned in listening to all of the people on the show that makes you think, how have you guys evolved through all of this?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. So I think it's just, you have to listen to your clients. I mean, this is something again that Nichole and I both do in every day life. So we're trying to fill somebody's dreams and trying to expand their budgets and really give them the utopia of what they're looking for. So I think with the show, the biggest part was us listening to really what was important to them and trying to bring that to reality so they could actually have a hard time choosing either the house or the wedding.

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole. It just reminded me about when I was younger and didn't make the smartest financial decisions because we have some fairly young couples on the show that did choose wedding, and I just saw myself in their eyes. I get it because I was given the option when I was getting married the first time. My dad said, "Are you sure that you don't want to take this chunk of money and put it on a down payment on a home or have two really nice cars in the driveway?" or whatever, and I was like, "No, Daddy, I have to have my big day." So now twice divorced and 47 years old, and now that I'm in real estate, I just cringe at how much money I could have made had I actually put it down on an asset rather than just a day.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys both bring a lot of life experience to the show, and one thing that I love is that you don't judge. Nichole, you just talked about your own life experiences, your own really important money story. And yet you hold back a little, you give them some room. Is that hard? What's that like?

Nichole Holmes:
I want them to do the smartest thing financially that I think is the smartest, and then we've got Sarah thinking they need to invest in these memories. And so I always say this in almost every interview, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." So all I can do is present the best package possible, show them the best houses, hit all of their top wishes and wants, and hope that they make a sound investment in land or a house.

Sarah Miller:
Nichole doesn't hold back, by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're both really good about managing expectations. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because many of these couples have really saved up for many years, these amounts of money, which are generally about $30,000, that is their life savings. And yet they can't always get their dream wedding or their dream house when they're realistic about you can't get everything. You guys are good at that. Tell us a little bit about that and the psychology of managing expectations from a financial perspective.

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. Again, I think it's just all about smart money and dumb money, especially when you're planning a wedding. It's like, listen, put your money where it's going to shine the most, what's most important to you. Let's highlight those areas and scale back on the rest. Because, again, coming into wedding planning, if they only have a small amount of budget allocated to this, then we have to figure out what to do with it. If they put a chose a house and a wedding, they wouldn't be our clients right now. It's one or the other. So we have to make sure that we can maximize it in the right way that makes sense for where they're at in their life at that moment.

Nichole Holmes:
Right. And as a real estate agent, I have to listen to what's most important. There's no such thing as a perfect house, and you're never going to find that dream home, when you're on a budget, I should say. You can find it if you're not on a budget. But if you're working with a budget, I just have to take what's most important to them, just like Sarah said she does with the weddings. And if it's a yard that they want it, if it's the extra bedroom so they can have an at home office or the right school system, all of that goes into play and you just have to let them know that, "The list that you gave me isn't possible. I will show you on paper. Here is the house that you're talking about," and show them how much money that is and how much over budget. So then they get it. And it's, again, exactly what you said, it's managing their expectations.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've both been in your field for a substantial amount of time. Nichole, you've been in real estate, I think, full time, for more than a decade. And Sarah, you're about the same, so what's up. But you also have seen the social media evolution and how that has influenced people's expectations. Tell me more about that. I mean, I think we had a donut wall in an episode. And to be fair, you have the wedding shows, but you also have these home shows where people have these dream shows. I mean, really, how has that changed people's expectations in terms of what they prioritize and how far their money will go?

Sarah Miller:
This is Sarah. I think on the show, we did a really good job with keeping in with our budgets. Again, we're not trying to over, I guess, over, what's the word, over show them anything that they really can't afford.

Nichole Holmes:
Over sell them.

Sarah Miller:
Over sell them, yeah exactly. We're trying to meet their expectations, but expanding those areas that were really important to them. So when you refer to the donut wall with that one couple, they wanted something unique that would run through social media. That's their era, their age. They were all about a show-stopping conversation piece at their wedding. So that's where that came in. But, again, I feel like the show in households nowadays helps viewers know that there are certain things that they can't afford. They just need to be open-minded about the other areas if they want their specific things.

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah, and this is Nichole. So when people are house shopping, they do a lot of it online now. So it's a good thing and a bad thing to a realtor.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah.

Nichole Holmes:
Because a lot of those websites that they go to, they aren't updated, and so they think that these homes are available and the market is so hot right now in middle Tennessee and Davidson County, specifically, houses are on the markets for hours and then they get snatched up. And so it's making our jobs as realtors a little bit harder because they will send you this list and you're like, "Well, stick with the list I sent you, because this is what's available. Whatever you're sending me and you're finding, you don't have access to the present, the real time houses." So that can get a little bit tricky.

Bobbi Rebell:
So the show was filmed before the pandemic. And, of course, some of the weddings were affected by the pandemic. A lot's changed, so you're still in touch with a lot of the couples that you worked with. Tell me what's been going on with them. Have there been regrets? Have there been, "Oh, I'm so glad I made that choice because of the pandemic and how I feel now"?

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah. From a real estate side, they're thrilled because housing prices are still going up.

Sarah Miller:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nichole Holmes:
They already equity in their home and they've been in for less than a year or about a year at this point. So I don't have any of my couples that chose house that are upset with their decision.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah, this is Sarah. Same thing on the wedding side. I think, again, the pandemic had a lot to do with wedding changes and stress and all of that stuff, but all the weddings from the show, they actually did go through, they just had to shift around a little bit. So, but yeah, I think everybody had an amazing time, and no matter if it was eight people to 100 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
What lessons have you guys learned in this whole process about money and psychology and the emotion of it and the practicality of it?

Nichole Holmes:
I think we learned more negotiating skills-

Sarah Miller:
Than anything.

Nichole Holmes:
Yeah, and it's judging the couples and what's important to them when we make our final pitches at the end of the show. You can see in their eyes, like when Sarah mentioned the donut wall was going to get thrown in, that boy's eyes lit up. He couldn't have been happier had she offered him a million dollars, I think. He was just so thrilled he was going to get the donut wall.

Sarah Miller:
Yeah, we were just talking how amazing of a concept it is. It's so funny because, when I'm planning weddings every single day, the clients aren't saying, "Oh, well, I don't know if I can plan my wedding because we're about to choose a house." So this is great that we actually have to battle for this and really try to figure out what's really important to them and what they want to choose.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because when people see the title, the logical intellectual one goes, "Of course, you would choose a house." But we're not wired that way as humans necessarily.

Sarah Miller:
I agree, and I love that. I get a lot of flack for being the wedding planner. They're like, "How could you? What are you doing?" I'm like, "Listen, love is love. It is what it is." If people didn't choose wedding, it wouldn't be a show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. You each brought a money tip for our financial grownup listeners. Who wants to go first?

Nichole Holmes:
Nichole will.

Sarah Miller:
Good.

Nichole Holmes:
This is Nichole. So I think it's super important to find a seasoned realtor that knows what they're doing and who has closed a lot of deals, because the negotiations can get intense, especially in a heated market, like it is now. And a good realtor can negotiate and literally save their clients thousands and thousands of dollars by the time it's all said and done.

Bobbi Rebell:
So work with a human, and one that's the right fit for you?

Nichole Holmes:
Oh absolutely. The fun part is finding the house and that's easy. It's after you write the contract and get to the closing table that everything can go sideways. And it does a lot of the time. So you need someone who is seasoned and knows what they're doing to keep everything on track and going in the right direction.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah, what's your money tip?

Sarah Miller:
I dido Nichole's thing that she said as well. Hire a professional first. Hire a wedding planner, because going into planning a wedding, number one, you have to have a budget in mind. Number two, hiring a professional is going to save you countless hours over research and time. So if you can start with that and then also jump into it and talk about like your most important parts. Talk about smart money and dumb money. Put your money where you really want it to shine and scale back on those other things.

Bobbi Rebell:
So well said. You guys are wonderful. I am waiting, waiting, waiting, and hoping for a season two. In the meantime, where can our listeners catch up with you and see what's going on in the meantime?

Sarah Miller:
Yeah. Hey, this is Sarah. And on Instagram, it is Southern Fine Co. We have a website as well, which is just SouthernFineCo.com.

Nichole Holmes:
And I am on Instagram. This is Nichole, and it's Nichole Holmes Realty. And it's Nichole with an H, N-I-C-H-O-L-E H-O-L-M-E-S Realty.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, ladies. It's been such a pleasure to have both of you. Thank you so much. Continued success, and I hope to have you back celebrating season two very soon.

Nichole Holmes:
Us too. Thank you.

Sarah Miller:
Thank you guys. It was so fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friend, let's review some of the tips from the ladies and that we learned from the show. Budgets sometimes can't budge, so sharpen your negotiating skills. The hosts often go to bat for their clients, getting creative deals from vendors and getting home sellers to cut the price when they can. You should always pay people fairly, of course, but there's nothing wrong with advocating for yourself, or frankly, for your clients on everything you can. There are also times when you should not DIY, and that is especially true when there are large sums of money involved. That includes large events and homes. Don't make assumptions about what is right for you at a given stage in life. Don't get FOMO and don't let other people change your mind. Think for yourself. Take the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
As the show contestants do, actually look at the options and really talk it out with people that you care about. And if you look back and feel that you've made the wrong choice, well, you know what? Life goes on. Just like Nichole now has a sense of humor about her two weddings and how she wishes that she had taken the money and used it for something else. The truth is, every time we make a decision about where to allocate money, it is also not going somewhere else. Hopefully, we make the right decision more often than we make the wrong one. But forgive yourself and just move on if you mess up, because we all do. It is part of being a grownup, come on. Another part, celebrating life's grownup milestones. I hope people check out grownupgear.com when you are gift shopping this spring. It's perfect stuff for at graduations, birthdays, engagements, new parents, new home, all the good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as a special promotion, we are going to give away one $50 gift card to Grownup Gear each week until July 4th, which is Independence Day. And maybe we can also call it Financial Independence Day. There are two ways to enter to win. Number one, take a screenshot of this podcast, post it on social media, and tag me at BobbiRebell1. Also, email that screenshot to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. The second way to enter is to write a review of the Money Tips For Financial Grownups Podcast on Apple Podcasts, take a screenshot, and send it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And my close friends and my relatives, by the way, you guys, not eligible. Sorry. Big thanks to Nichole Holmes and Sarah Miller of Netflix's Marriage or Mortgage for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips For Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips For Financial Grownups.