Money fights happen all the time. But with the coronavirus pandemic keeping so many families together 24-7, learning how to manage those money disagreements is mandatory if we want to get through without a total relationship meltdown. Financial Grownup Amanda Clayman, a Financial Therapist and Financial Wellness Advocate with Prudential, shares her strategies and a money tip to help us cope, and hopefully thrive.
Amanda’s Money Story:
Amanda Clayman:
It's really funny because even as a financial therapist, it's not like I'm ever outside of the work. I still deal with money every day. I deal with it personally. I deal with it in my marriage. When I got married, I really thought this is clearly my area of expertise. I'm going to run the show. And yet, one of the things that I discovered is that in my family of origin, my mother was the one who really managed the day-to-day finances, and in my husband's family, his dad did it. Both of us came into the marriage thinking, hey, this is my territory. As a result, we sort of went head-to-head for the first couple of years, and it didn't help that we have very different money personalities from each other.
Amanda Clayman:
For example, Greg really wanted to have a lot of control over money, but he didn't want to manage it the way that I did. He used to have a kind of laissez faire attitude towards scheduling money tasks. He would pay bills late. We would get these late fees, and this was like if you can imagine a cartoon where like the steam is coming out of your ears, that would be my response to what I felt was just the chaos of our financial life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just to clarify, he wasn't paying bills late because there was actually a lack of the funds to pay. He just was not prioritizing that. It wasn't something that he valued.
Amanda Clayman:
Exactly. He was very spontaneous. There were a million things that he would rather do than pay bills, but weirdly he didn't want anybody else to be doing it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You could have just taken it over.
Amanda Clayman:
Right. It's not a good personality trait to like, I want to control something, but not do a great job in controlling it, but that's obviously sort of my point of view speaking there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Amanda Clayman:
One of the things that we did, because we just kept butting heads and I felt very shut out by this it and it just made me crazy, we sat down and we calculated over the course of a year generally sort of what these late charges added up to. The number was not an insignificant number. It was in the hundreds of dollars over the course of the year. When you say like, is that a good use of a couple hundred dollars, obviously the answer is no. But the way that my husband put the question to me was, would you pay this amount of money to end this argument? I appreciated that reframing because, A, ending the argument was certainly something that I wanted to do and I was only looking at the way to end the argument by getting my way, as opposed to sort of focusing on quantifying the problem.
Amanda Clayman:
It's a technique that I've used professionally with lots of people that I work with is how do we really sit down and not say is this behavior good or bad, but really how can we quantify what the consequences are, what the negative effects are, and be able to use that information to frame our decision-making process.
Bobbi Rebell:
How was it eventually resolved? You just accept it, or have you over the years switched where he is paying them on time or you're paying them, or is this still a situation that you live with?
Amanda Clayman:
Over the years, I think we have met more in the middle as we've been financial partners and life partners with each other, but also one of the things about our system, and this also is part of my framework for working with couples, is that we have a pretty flexible arrangement. There have been periods where he's been busier and I have transitioned into the lead financial manager in our family, or certain circumstances, for example, like when we had to move and things were a lot more unstable financially in our family, like in terms of we were both working for ourselves, cashflow was really variable, that is not a situation that I really... I find it really emotional. I don't like it, so I transitioned out. He took the lead during that period.
Amanda Clayman:
At this point, that was the beginning of the marriage where we just hadn't really established a working trust with each other. Now I would say that that flexibility, but also that sustainability, that was an okay arrangement for us. I was willing to make that compromise in the beginning, but I wonder if over time it would have been unsustainable for me and probably we would have needed to revisit it.
“We are wired to be very reactive to things that happen with money and sometimes that re-activity is not proportional to the actual threat”
Amanda’s Money Lesson:
Amanda Clayman:
one thing to understand is that money is directly wired into our sense of survival. When things feel out of control with money, we tend to just... Our brains light up like a pinball machine. We're wired to be very reactive to things that happen with money. Sometimes that reactivity is not proportional to the actual threat. Like a disagreement with someone, let's say that you and a sibling need to make a decision, for example, about a family... Like what to do with the parent's house when it's time for them to move into a retirement community. You and your sibling may not disagree. That may feel like a relationship ender because it feels like such a huge issue. I advise people to be able to recognize, to look for the values underneath what's guiding the decision.
Amanda Clayman:
If somebody comes to a different conclusion than you when they're looking at the same numbers, it's probably because they have a different set of associations, different things are important to them about that decision. This gives us a tremendous opportunity to really expand our empathy, to even find a deeper level of connection with people when we're able to understand that money is not just the domain of rational facts, but something that is so deeply personal. It's a way for us to get to know each other and to speak on that level of values in order to try to connect and come to an agreement.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. We all come to money from so many different experiences in our life.
Amanda Clayman:
That is very true.
“Money is not just the domain of rational facts. But something that is so deeply personal. It’s a way for us to get to know each other and to speak on that level of values, in order to connect and come to an agreement. ”
Amanda’s Money Tip:
Amanda Clayman:
One of my favorite things about being a financial therapist is that I'm able to work with the dual nature of money, meaning that money is simultaneously a symbol, we project a lot of meaning onto it, and it's a tool. We can quantify. We can exchange it. There are all kinds of things that we can do with it. Where we are experiencing pain and distress around something that's happening in our financial life that we want to change, there's such an opportunity to quantify that distress to, A, be able to check just like Greg and I did in terms of like is the amount of pain that I'm experiencing over the situation proportionate to the dollar amount relative to what's happening in my life.
Amanda Clayman:
We can do that too if we say like, I spend too much money on X. Quantify what you spend on X. Be able to see like is this really a threat or is this revealing something to me about my own relationship to my needs or how I use money to take care of myself and messages I was told about whether or not that's okay. We can even get in there and instead of saying like, "I'm going to cut this out," we can say like, "I'm going to take restaurants down by 50%, or I'm going to increase savings by 30% moving forward." We can start to adjust these numbers and really get at a healthier place internally because we're working with both the symbolic value and the tool property.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of like, you had said before, knowing your money triggers.
Amanda Clayman:
Yes. I feel like looking at sort of what pings us emotionally is really where the work is when it comes to financial health.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said.
“What pains us emotionally is really where the work is when it comes to financial health. ”
Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:
Financial Grownup Tip #1:
Amanda talks about money triggers. I know I can spend freely on things that may be important to me and get very upset if I am questioned about those decisions. But on the flip side, if I see a member of my family spending on something I think we don't need to pay for, maybe let's say a taxi to go 10 blocks to avoid being late for an activity rather than maybe plan a little better in advance and walk, I'll get very upset.
Although if we're being honest, I've done it a couple times, but not a lot. But after hearing what Amanda said, I went and looked up the total cost of what I view as unnecessary taxis. You know what? It did add up. But at the end of the day, as Amanda said, I asked is, it worth having a fight each and every time it happens than having tension for days afterwards? More importantly, do those arguments even solve the problem? The truth is it doesn't and it won't because we don't all see that as a problem.
Maybe even though it is not the best use of money, to keep the peace, it may just have to be baked into the budget and we need to make adjustments in other places, at least until the other person decides not spending money on something like that rather than just leaving on time, time management issues, whatever you want to call it, is also important to them. The truth is we all have different things that are important to us and we have to kind of make peace sometimes with the fact that they don't always align with other people that we are connected financially too.
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talks about periods of time when we face financial instability and that is happening right now to so many of us. Personally, some of my projects are just influx.
We don't know. Until we get out of this horrible economic situation, I'm coping by just reminding myself that this was not caused by anything I could have controlled. If you are feeling down, please take that to heart. If you are having economic setbacks, please don't blame yourself. Sadly, it's still probably on you to find solutions to the problem, but just remember you didn't create it.
Financial Grownup Tip #2:
Amanda talks about periods of time when we face financial instability and that is happening right now to so many of us. Personally, some of my projects are just influx.
We don't know. Until we get out of this horrible economic situation, I'm coping by just reminding myself that this was not caused by anything I could have controlled. If you are feeling down, please take that to heart. If you are having economic setbacks, please don't blame yourself. Sadly, it's still probably on you to find solutions to the problem, but just remember you didn't create it.
Episode Links:
Amanda’s website - www.amandaclayman.com
Follow Amanda!
Instagram - @amandaclayman
Twitter - @mandaclay
Facebook - @AmandaClaymanFinancialTherapy
Pinterest - @claymanamanda
LinkedIn - @amandaclayman
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