Optometrist Jen Tsai was in the process of launching her solo practice when the pandemic hit. She shares how she kept her cool and managed to overcome financing and construction challenges, as well as build a retail practice while the world was in turmoil. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, it definitely wasn't my goal to open a cold start practice in the start of pandemic. I honestly thought with the year being 2020 it would be good luck to open it with that, but you can never plan for things. I think that was an important lesson, to just always be prepared, especially financially, with working capital, when you go into any business. If we didn't do that, if I didn't do that, we would've been in a different place today.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
I think being prepared for that was always important, and being able to work the first couple of years, just seeing how other practices ran their business, really taught me a lot because I paid attention to their maybe downfalls and ways that they were efficient and applied that to my own business model.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, how did you balance everything? Because you had these plans in place, you were geared up to start this business, then coronavirus hit and you did have other financial things going on you had to balance. You still had student debt, so you had to balance that. Did you take out loans? How did you finance this business and how did you keep going as this pandemic is emerging?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, I definitely have student debt. Luckily, my undergrad was paid off and I had some scholarships. In terms of medical school and optometry school, it is quite expensive as we all know and we come out of it with a couple hundred thousand dollars with our name. I didn't always have a fear of taking out debt. I understood and I did my research about what the student rates were. I think a lot of people do have a fear of taking out student debt, and when they finish school their immediate goal is to completely pay off their loans because it may seem daunting or scary and they feel that they can't continue to do other things with their money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's not that it's bad to pay off the student debt. It's bad if it keeps you from living your life, I guess, is what you're getting at, that you don't start other things until you pay it down completely when you're facing, in your case, six-figure debt.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah. I think that is definitely something that stalls people or holds them back. I think it's important to realize that student debt is not a bad thing. I think people see it as a bad thing. There's definitely a lot of debt that other people have that they don't realize on a day-to-day basis that's actually worse, which is credit card loans that you purchase stuff with. Those interest rates are definitely higher.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Going into that, I definitely saved up enough working capital and I made sure that I refinanced my loans to make sure that I had a lower interest rate. I didn't really let that stop me from chasing my dreams and going after what I really wanted. Initially, I was held a bit back, looking at the cost of how much to start a complete cold start. I was even looking at buying old practices that were definitely a lot cheaper, but also evaluating their P&Ls. Thinking about the whole thing, I realized in the long run, this is a short-term investment for your end goal, which is the more important thing. So I was willing to take that investment, especially on myself. That's what I wanted to focus on.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you were in the pandemic and you're trying to start this?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Once it was around March, we were gearing up to open. We were finally putting down the finishing touches for the front of the store and then the pandemic happened. I'm in New York City, so when it first happened in March, it definitely was a tough time. It was really scary for us. We knew it was coming from upstate and then all of a sudden it became widespread and immediately everything just shut down. It was like a ghost town. We couldn't even go to the site to really look at the construction because we weren't even allowed to be in proximity with our contractors, so everything just came to a halt. I had to quickly convert to a virtual telehealth visit for my patients, while doing virtual Zoom calls with my architect team. It was just insane. It was an insane time. We couldn't even finish our construction because we had to apply for permitting in order to be able to finish construction during a pandemic.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Finally, around I would say maybe like June or July, they allowed us to go back in to finish construction. Of course, at that point there was delays in manufacturers with their materials, getting it to our store. It was just working around that. I mean, I will tell you, our store still isn't even completely done to this day. I've just learned to live day by day at this point. But luckily, we were able to at least open our doors August 6. I was just really excited to get in there. After four months of not really seeing patients in person, I wanted to be back in there to be able to care for the ones that really needed to see me during that time.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Then I was shocked because we basically, starting from the first day a month and a half ago to now, it's been seeing eight to 10 patients already. Partly, I think it would attribute to probably a little bit of social media, just sharing out there honest, brutal moments that I have and I think it makes it more authentic that people do see where you come from, and also sharing the fact that we're there to provide a space where they feel safe and comfortable, that it's modern and clean. I think that going forward, people really care about their health, patients really do, especially with COVID, that they realize how important their health is and they're willing to invest in that. I am grateful that people have been able to come in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do in advance financially to shore up your finances and made sure you had that runway?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
On a bigger scale level I think about it. People are either really trigger happy, or they're really risk adverse. If you're really risk adverse, you'll never take the first step because you're just afraid of all these self-doubts that you have. I think what has helped me is just really creating a strong financial plan and making sure that you have everything checked off for the worst-case scenario in case it happens, because you never know. I think for people who are trigger happy, I think that's one thing that they need to think about. Are there things that could happen, such as a pandemic, that will maybe cause me to not have any cashflow or working capital going into it?

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Coming out of school a couple of years later, I realized it doesn't make sense to not refinance my loan so that I could reduce my interest rate and have it all in one place. That has helped me manage my money better. I was working, I would say for the first four years, full-time. Actually, when I first started in two practices, then I went down to one. I hustled, I worked really hard to save money. I didn't put it all into paying off my loans. I used it to save up money, invest on the side, so I had a better cash flow and working capital because I knew that I wanted to start my own practice at that point in time. I just knew that I needed money saved up to do that.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Starting lean when you start a practice is really important and only purchasing things when you need it. It has to justify. If you buy a piece of equipment, how many times do you have to perform the procedure to make the money back, thinking about that, cutting back on vendor purchases or offering more of a curated product of frame line. I think these days, patients prefer that one-on-one time, that one-on-one experience to feel like they've had an amazing experience at the store. You don't have to purchase a million things that don't get bought, instead focusing on limited product lines and setting aside cash reserves to pay bills and reducing your overhead capital expenditures and working with your vendors and landlord, if it's possible, if they're willing to negotiate with you.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
I would say, little by little, a little becomes a lot. These little steps that you set in place for the long road is really important. One of the things for me is making sure that you have your financial steps in place. At least for me, that was refinancing my student loans, that was the very first step. For example, I use Laurel Road. Right now, I think federal interest rates are so low it's silly to not take advantage of that. It's great to have this digital lending platform that is built for specifically young professionals in healthcare as well to work towards their goals. There's definitely perks and rewards that they have for healthcare professionals. Refinancing definitely helps you with savings over time, and that's how you can use working capital to invest towards your future or your dream practice or something that you want to build.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also going to help your credit score to have all of your finances in order, obviously, which is going to help if you do need to get more funding, especially if you get these unexpected things like a pandemic and you need to access maybe more capital, more time to pay loans and better rates than you maybe thought before.

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Right, exactly. I agree.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
Yeah, shiny object syndrome is definitely a public enemy if you go down this rabbit hole of just purchasing everything you find. They're really good at it with marketing, you're just sitting at home, scrolling through your phone on social media and there's something that you want. I remember when I first graduated out of school, with my first paycheck living in New York City, the first thing I decided to buy was a Chanel bag. That was the worst decision I ever made. I could not pay rent the next month. I learned really, really quickly to not do that. I think that was because of Sex and the City. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is so cool living in New York."

Dr. Jennifer Tsai:
But I think learning stuff like that is really important. You don't have to have every single piece of brand new state-of-the-art technology in your office. I know you want it for your patients and for your store, but you want to start off very lean so that your savings don't get sucked dry so fast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I think that makes sense. I mean, I was upset because the style that I wanted on your eyeglasses store was sold out, but you kept your inventory tight so you're living true to that. You don't want to buy so much inventory that you're holding on to inventory. You're starting out your business lean.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Take your time. I was so frustrated that the glasses I wanted to order it were sold out on her online store, Carrot Eyewear, but Dr. Jen explained that she needed to control her risk exposure by keeping inventories lean, even if that meant losing out on some sales, like to me. Yes, it may slow the pace of the retail business growth, but when the pandemic hit, she wasn't over leveraged. Patience pays. Think about how you can buy just what you need so you don't feel stretched and stressed.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Paying down debt is all good, but as we have learned in the past eight or nine months, well, it shouldn't be at the expense of having enough cash on hand to manage through something totally unexpected, like a global pandemic. Don't miss any payments, be mindful, think about how you can refinance maybe at a lower rate as Jen did, especially with our still super low interest rates, but also do the other things to build your life and keep living.

Episode Links:

• Jennifer’s websites -

  • www.drjennifertsai.com

  • www.lineofsightvision.com

  • www.carroteyewear.com

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @drjenandjuice

• Instagram - @lineofsightvision

• Instagram - @carroteyewear

• Facebook - Carrot Eyewear

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Chelsea Brennan’s product sales are surging during the Coronavirus pandemic but the boom has brought some difficult business and ethical decisions. The founder of Smart Money Mamas shares her personal money story, along with how to do a  money fire drill so you and your family are ready for emergencies.

Chelsea’s Money Story:

Chelsea Brennan:
I still think of myself as self-employed, right? This is like my business that serves me in my family, but the reality is it's grown over the past couple of years. We have contractors, numerous contractors, that work for us and we have affiliates promote our product and depend on their affiliate commissions for their business revenue. Our most popular product on our site is called our family emergency binder. It's this product that fills the gap between kind of your general having the right insurance and having a will and what your family would actually need to navigate a crisis.

Chelsea Brennan:
As this whole pandemic started to happen, we saw sales pick up of that, which on one side as a business owner is great, but on the other side it was really emotional for me of, am I profiting off a crisis, am I taking advantage of the situation, even though the product existed long before this all happened. My initial reaction was to discount it significantly to make sure more people got it, but I had to think through was I jeopardizing my ability to support my regular contractors who typically work with me? How is this going to affect my affiliates? How do I communicate this to them in a way that they think this is the right decision?

Chelsea Brennan:
Something that once upon a time when it was just me would have been an easy decision to just slash the price and move on. I had to have a lot more conversations and think more carefully about it for several days before he made the decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because we realized that so many of our businesses, even though you think of yourself as a solo entrepreneur, are actually connected to other people and their income if you have suppliers, vendors, and then on the other hand, your clients. It can be a bit complicated. How did it work out?

Chelsea Brennan:
We decided to reduce the binder price by 40% for the remainder of the crisis. We keep setting an end date on it just because it helps optically and people understand what's going on, but we keep extending it through the crisis. It wasn't a very expensive product to start. It was $39. Now it's $23. We talked to our affiliates about the fact that like, listen, this isn't a sexy product. It never has been, right? This isn't something that people want to think about.

Chelsea Brennan:
If we discounted the price, if we made it super accessible, we could get it to more people and get them to take action on it in a time where even people who bought it in the past have a tendency to kind of stick it in the drawer of, "I don't want to fill this out. I don't want to think about it. I know I need it, but I'll deal with it later," whereas we could really encourage them to use this as an opportunity to get prepared. Everyone in our affiliate group completely understood that. They thought it was a great idea. We have been discounting it and find that balance between making sure we're supporting my business and the other businesses that depend on the binder, as well as making sure we're helping the community as well.

“People value things more that they pay for. So I could have made the product free and I think that we would have had fewer people.”

Chelsea’s Money Lesson:

Chelsea Brennan:
I think that if you're a business owner, you have to treat your business as a business. As much as we all have that helper mindset and we want to make sure that everyone has everything they need all the time in our community, first of all, people value things more that they pay for. I could've made the product free and I think that we would have had fewer people filling it out. We're getting lots and lots of emails of people taking action, which is my favorite thing. You have to support yourself and the people that depend on you, your family, your contractors, your employees. Don't feel guilty about having a business through recession, through a downturn because you still have to survive, to keep serving your community.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because if you don't make money and you don't pay your bills, those people are not going to be able to pay their bills. It's important to remember that everything is connected.

“You have to support yourself and the people that depend on you. Your family, your contractors, your employees. So don’t feel guilty about having a business through a recession, through a downturn because you still have to survive. ”

Chelsea’s Money Tip:

Chelsea Brennan:
The family emergency binder came about because my husband is a stay at home dad who is not super involved in the day-to-day of the finances, right? We have regular money conversations, but he's not the one signing into accounts, paying the bills, understanding the investments. I was a little bit worried of if something ever happened to me. We have two young boys. The emotional difficulty for him of having to both deal with any kind of grief and learn a whole new set of skills. One month out of the year, we call it our fire drill month, he takes over all of our finances for the month. I have to step out and be quiet, which is the hardest part, right, is to let him-

Bobbi Rebell:
Does he come to you for help?

Chelsea Brennan:
He does. The way we run it is that he's got to go to the binder first. We're trying to find holes in the binder in the first place of like, okay, where are things that we didn't write down that we should have written down? But he does come and ask questions. The first time was a little bit difficult, right? We had a couple of things that fell through the cracks a bit, but that's natural and now we're in year three and it's gotten a lot easier, right? He knows. When we have money conversations in the other 11 months of the year, he's more involved. He has more buy in, and I feel like it's built a lot of comfort for both of us.

Chelsea Brennan:
My money tip is if you have one partner in a relationship that manages the majority of the finances or if you're equal partner switch, let the typically secondary partner take over and really get some practice in case they ever have to step in because they likely will at some point. Even if it's just a temporary point of an illness or whatever, then they have that comfort that they can do what they need to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, or even worse, what could happen is they could just do nothing and that would be even scarier. What about if people sort of share things equally, if they divide and conquer, which a lot of couples do?

Chelsea Brennan:
Yeah. I love the idea of swapping completely, right? Take over the other responsibilities. We see this sometimes with like home maintenance and childcare, right, where one partner is the stay at home parent. We have this in our house except the difference is I'm home also working from home, so I kind of see what's going on, but it's letting the other partner handle what you normally handle, whether that's school routines or packing lunches or managing the auto maintenance, right? It's experiencing what you would have to pick up the slack on if your partner wasn't around.

“We are getting lots and lots of emails of people taking action, which is my favorite thing.”

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip #1:

Think about all the financial stakeholders before making a money related decision. For Chelsea, this included not just herself and her family, but also people with whom she had business ties and, of course, our customers. This applies even to our families. You may want to do something with the family's money, but we need to all think about the impact they will have on everyone in our financial ecosystem.

Financial Grownup Tip #2:

Pay it forward, but also pay yourself. My bet is Chelsea's community will remember that she cut them a break during this tough time, but they will also respect the fact that Chelsea made sure to take care of her own family. That will go a long way towards sustaining her business well beyond this time period and people remember that and they're okay with that. What are you doing that people will remember?

Episode Links:

• Chelsea’s website - smartmoneymamas.com

• Mama’s Talk Money Summit

Follow Chelsea!

• Instagram - @smartmoneymamas

• Twitter - @SmartMoneyMamas

• Facebook - @smartmoneymamas

• Pinterest - @smartmoneymamas

  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur coach Cait Scudder built a 6 figure business while living abroad overcoming numerous obstacles. She shares her specific strategies to help build a grownup business focused on sustainable product growth and revenue streams. 

5 essential ways to create a successful business

Cait Scudder:
Well, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here and I'm so excited to be talking about this. I think for so many entrepreneurs, creating a successful business, whether you're running it from a laptop or abroad or whether you're running it out of your living room, feels like it's this enigmatic thing. So, I'm really excited to break down some really tangible steps to help your listeners apply it to their own businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm a little bit of a snob about this. I don't like all this mumbo jumbo. You are specific, and focused, and I love that. So, you've got five tips and then we have some other special stuff after this. So, stick with us, guys. Number one is basically, figure out the problem that you're going to solve for people, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, the first thing I would say if you are looking to build a six-figure business, and scale it to multiple six figures and beyond, is you have to be so crystal clear on the problem that you help people solve. It is not enough to just say, "Well, I want to be a consultant for leaders" or "I want to be a health coach" or whatever other niche that you're in. Dial that right in to get so specifically clear on the problem that you help your clients solve and how you do that with the solution that you offer.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what would be an example of a client that had this problem and how do they really figure out what problem they were solving for?

Cait Scudder:
So, one of the exercises that I lead my clients through, let's take a health-coaching coach, for example. If you are looking to build out a health-coaching business, somebody who helps their clients achieve either weight loss or higher levels of energy, the problem that you might help somebody solve is losing 15 pounds or losing 20 pounds. What you need to do if you want to dial that right in and then be able to build a compelling brand and a compelling message from that is, get super clear. Not only on that problem point as if it's a bullet point in your notebook, but what's the pain that somebody is experiencing as a result of having that problem? So, one of the things that I think happens a lot is entrepreneurs get stuck in this messaging spiral of, well, I'm listing out my client's problems, but they're not responding.

Cait Scudder:
I think the biggest thing that happens when we do that is that we're not actually speaking to the pain, the ripple effect pain I call it, that those problems caused. So, for example, if a client is struggling with low energy, they're feeling overweight, they're feeling not confident in their bodies, how is that actually playing out in their lives? Maybe they can't walk up the stairs without running out of breath. Maybe they can't bend over to pick up their grandchild and not feel like they have to sit down. So, really dialing your messaging straight in to the problem that you help people solve. The pain that it's going to help them get out of in painting the picture and creating offers that help somebody do that in a step-by-step way is such a powerful step for your business and for your marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your second tip, which is to figure out what exactly the offer is.

Cait Scudder:
Exactly. So, the second thing that you need to do is build out an offer. I always say to my clients, especially who offer their services, so consultants, any kind of strategists is, it's very, very important to be able to build a product in your client's mind as if it were a tangible product that you could put on top of your desk. So, if you're offering a six-month consultancy package or a retainer offer, what does that look like? What's the result that somebody is going to get? And the way that you want to think about your offers is in two different pieces. The first is the framework, and the second are the features. So, your framework might look like, for example, in my business coaching consultancy, I have a framework that's based on three different things: energy, strategy, and sales. When you can nail all three of those as a business owner, you are golden.

Cait Scudder:
So, the energy piece is, what does your vibe put out? How are you attracting your ideal client, how you are attracting your audience. The second piece of strategy is, what are the offers that you're building out? How are we marketing you in a way that is magnetic in a way that draws your people in? And thirdly, in sales, obviously, we need to make sales if we're going to be in business. So, what I really recommend entrepreneurs to do if they're struggling to build out an offer, is think about what's the framework that you move somebody through and what are the features? How long is your package for? What does it include? What's the scope of work? And when you can be so specifically clear on the process that you move somebody through, the framework, and the way that you do that in the tangible breakdown, the features, that's when you really have a rock-solid offer to bring to the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third thing is something I am so uncomfortable with myself, get comfortable with marketing. It is so hard, Cait. I feel this personally.

Cait Scudder:
Really, Bobbi? You're definitely not alone. And I have to be honest, at the beginning when I started my business, I felt so uncomfortable with it. I felt like, "Hang on, squawking about all of this stuff that I do for other people like this is so uncomfortable." Here's what I've come to see it as. When you are marketing your services or your products or your free content even, because let's be real, promoting a podcast or promoting a blog article, all of that is marketing. You are educating and you are empowering your audience with pieces of content, with pieces of information, and pieces of education that help them move towards a result. And I think that when you can have that internal shift as an entrepreneur from, "Oh, this is so self-indulgent. Who would want to read about this? This is so self-aggrandizing." And really flip that script to say, "Hey, me showing up and waving this flag loud and proud is helping somebody else who's seeing this achieve a result," and that is such an empowered place both for you and for your audience.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fourth one, also a pain point for me, confidence in selling. I always struggle with this, Cait. I really do.

Cait Scudder:
You know what? I hear you and especially for women, Bobbi, I personally think that we are not necessarily taught to move into a sales conversation or move into a sales context, with the same level of permission and confidence that for whatever reason I feel like men just intrinsically feel. I'm sure that's not the case for everybody, but I definitely know so many women who struggle with this piece.

Cait Scudder:
Here's my take on this. When you sell somebody your product or your service, you are giving them the pathway to a solution. If you don't sell, if you don't speak about what your offer is, if you never let somebody know how they can work with you and what's possible as a result, you are literally robbing from them the possibility for getting that result and you helping them. And I think when you really flip that script and look at, "Hang on, this is not just some selfish manipulative, greasy car salesman tactic. This is me showcasing the possibility that somebody has to achieve this solution with me." You really put yourself in the game, and you give your market confidence to buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the fifth thing is, be consistent.

Cait Scudder:
That is absolutely right. I think that there is no... One of the best pieces of advice, Bobbi, that I've ever been given in entrepreneurship is, don't get too high and don't get too low. When it comes to being your own boss and running things your own way, creating your own schedule, running your own team, there's so many opportunities to get knocked off your horse to feel like you just want to throw in the towel and crawl back into bed and you just don't want to do it. And that is the biggest thing that I think swipes entrepreneurs off their path is, feeling like I had a good day, I want to show up, had a bad day, I don't want to show up. Guys, if you take one thing away from this, let it be this. You are going to have great days. You're going to have hard days. It's your commitment to staying the course. That is the thing that's going to see you through. Just remember, you cannot fail if you just keep going.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want you to share, it's kind of a bonus for our listeners. You have a lot of everyday things that you do. Some things I do too that really help in terms of the day-to-day, like the way that you schedule your week, which is something I do as well.

Cait Scudder:
Yes, absolutely. So, one of the best hacks, oh my gosh, this just saves so much time, so much mental bandwidth for me is scheduling a CEO day. So, on Mondays, I mean, I'm on the phone a lot of the time, whether it's on the phone with clients, group calls, individual calls, collaborators, I'm on the phone a lot. Mondays are my CEO day, which means I don't take any calls. Monday is my day to work completely on my business, and not be in anybody else's business. And that has been so helpful for not only block scheduling and batching out what I need to do in a week, but also for keeping me super on point when I'm coaching on the other days and just very, very focused on what I need to do. I think that as entrepreneurs and as CEOs, one of our biggest forms of currency is our focus and our attention. So, scheduling in a CEO day is going to massively help you feel organized and sane as you move into the week. And I recommend doing it on a Monday because who doesn't love moving into the week feeling organized and sane?

Cait Scudder:
The second thing I would say is, create a little routine for yourself on a daily basis. And I don't mean wake up at 5:00 AM, meditate, do power yoga, sit in lotus for 25 minutes. No, you don't have to do any of that. For me, one of the things that I have is a non-negotiable. I wake up, I have some water with lemon, I exercise for half an hour to 45 minutes, and I move into my day after doing a little bit of gratitude practice. And I might think about things in the shower. I don't spend hours journaling in the morning. But I think that if you can mentally and physically prime your body in the morning, you're really setting yourself up for success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about the mindset that's involved because it's important that we be aware of what other people are doing. First of all, we learn from them and you should just always be aware of competition, let's be real. And also, I believe a lot of competition, it's actually expanding businesses. So, I believe in cooperation over competition in general, but it's also important not to compare too much, right?

Cait Scudder:
Absolutely. So, I think one of the biggest things that knocks us off our horse is this feeling of imposter syndrome of, "She's doing it better than me" or "they already have this established company" or "who am I to come into this space?" And I think whenever that happens, and let's be real, it happens for all of us, the most important way that we can shift out of that is moving your attention from comparison, from analyzing all of your flaws and your worthiness and your capability. Taking your attention off of all of that comparison and "not good enough" noise, and moving it back to a place of service, and moving it back to a place of all of the reasons why you and you alone are the best equipped to serve your people. Why you have moved through everything that you've been through in your life, in your business and your experience in order to be able to offer what you're doing.

Cait Scudder:
And just remember, if you are not showing up for your people, you're taking away from them the opportunity that they have to experience what's possible on the other side. So, the more that you can give yourself permission to let go of the comparing mind, which is our ego's way of keeping us safe, and go back to all of the ways that you're equipped to help somebody, you're going to be of so much more service and you're going to make a heck of a lot more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to finally just touch on something that you have some strong opinions on. And that is MLMs, multilevel marketing. It's important. There's some really good ones out there, but you also have a lot to say about the fact that some of them are scammy. What do people need to know?

Cait Scudder:
I think that there are a lot of amazing people out there building a successful business in network marketing. I think there are great companies out there that offer possibilities for people, but do your homework, guys. I think it's very important to know what you're getting into and to really... And this is the case, whether you're in an MLM or you're building your own business or you're working for somebody else, quite frankly, is you need to be 100% behind the mission, the ethos, the values of whatever it is that you're selling.

Cait Scudder:
So, rather than just looking at a shiny object as a way to make a little bit more money in your bank account month after month, really ask yourself, "Is being affiliated with this community or this company something that I'm going to feel proud of in 10 years? Do I align with the values and the greater impact that this company is making?" Because ultimately, whether you are just one person in a rank or you are an entrepreneur under your own brand, you are representing a brand and that brand is yourself. And so, you really want to make sure that you align at a deep level with whatever it is that you're standing behind.

Episode Links:

• Cait's website - www.caitscudder.com

• Cait’s podcast - Born To Rise

• Cait’s Ted Talk - www.caitscudder.com/episode/tedxtalk

Follow Cait!

• Instagram - @caitscudder

• YouTube

• Facebook - @caitloneragan

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sadie Kurzban won $25,000 in a college contest for entrepreneurs by using a strategy that has continued to drive the growth of her boutique dance fitness chain. The millennial entrepreneur shares her secrets to building a business on a low budget, along with her personal tips on how she manages healthy meals on a budget with her relentless schedule.

Sadie’s Money Story:

Bobbi Rebell:
For your money story, you're going to actually talk to us about how you got the funding to start this, because you were just in college.

Sadie Kurzban:
I was, yes. I started teaching aerobics classes really for fun in college because I was passionate about it. I had always loved group fitness and I thought, well let me take my hand at giving this a try. So I was teaching it for fun and when I was thinking about what I wanted to do for my career around graduation, that my senior year my friend turned to me and she was like, "Girl, like this is your passion, you need to do this" and I was like, "What? I'm not going to graduate college and go be a fitness instructor".

Bobbi Rebell:
You were at Brown University by the way.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yes, I graduated top of my class. Everyone around me was getting a job in consulting. They were going to medical school, going to law school and I was like, "I think I should go do something like that". So I was like, "How am I going to go?" I even, I remember I looked up in Brown alumni who's in fitness, even just as a category and there was like one alumni from the 70's like it's just not a very popular thing to do. So, I was like, "God, I'm not going to go. Yeah, I have bigger ambitions than being a trainer". So she said, "Why don't you just start a business?" I was like, "What?" I had never even thought about starting a business, truly. This was right before senior year.

Sadie Kurzban:
We started looking up in the course curriculum, entrepreneurship, accounting, really we were kind of scrambling and I ended up majoring in economics, which was really funny and unexpected. But I took every entrepreneurship related, business related, accounting related. It was my entire senior year I was filled with these courses, studying my tail off and I entered the big annual business plan pitch competition. So it's a 10 minute pitch. It's all students, almost all the teams were all male. A lot of the teams were graduate students who had invented like incredible things like medical devices, like really impressive businesses and here I was, I was like, "I'm going to start this dance cardio workout. It has a DJ. It's really fun. This is why I should win". It was really surprising at the end of the day that I won, but it really was the sign from the universe that I needed to move to New York and make this happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why do you think you won? What was the differentiator?

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, I'll tell you why I think I won was that it's held in the school auditorium and it's a pretty nerdy competition. A lot of business majors, a lot of masters students that I got hundreds of kids who would come take my class every week. I said, "I'm entering this pitch competition. If you love these fitness classes I've been teaching, please come and cheer me on". So I packed the room. I mean, honestly, with 300, 400 students that were screaming their heads off for me. So I think the judges, while they thought, well maybe, I don't know if they felt this was the most impressive business, but what they definitely saw was I had proven the concept and I had really gotten a handful of ... More than a handful of really passionate evangelists. So they knew I was onto something and getting people super passionate about this early on has been the biggest gift and the biggest way that we've grown so quickly, as you know with limited resources, getting customers to really evangelize us and tell their friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and then you got the $25,000 to get going.

Sadie Kurzban:
Yeah, it was enough to at least give me the confidence to move to New York and give myself nine months to try and make it happen.

Sadie’s Money Lesson:

Sadie Kurzban:
I think the biggest lesson there is, I didn't worry so much about all of the 'what if's' and the house and even moving to New York and all of these things and renting space. I just thought about how can I get every customer who walks in to really go back to their next dinner, to work the next day and talk about this like it's nobody's business, right? So with pretty limited resources, $25,000 in New York City is not a lot of money at all. I knew I didn't have a lot of room for error, but what I did have was customers in front of me every day and if I could get one person super jazzed about this, telling 10 people, that was free marketing for me. So I had to really deliver on the experience and most importantly stop worrying about all the 'what if's' and what could happen. Really think about that person in front of me and look at them as a real opportunity to keep just running through the doors that have been opened for me and breaking the glass ceiling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your instructors are really brand ambassadors.

Sadie Kurzban:
They are, yes. We all live in Brea, 305 and we know how important that client in front of us is.

Sadie’s Money Tip:

Sadie Kurzban:
So yeah, I was thinking a little bit about this because they listened to your show and I have to admit I'm not great at saving. I'm a little bit better at just creating things and I tend to kind of close my eyes and drive at the same time when it comes to money. But the one way that I really do, I think successfully saved is again, in a city like New York where it's really tempting to do seamless every night or go to dinner, that can really add up big time, like $30, $40 every night. So instead what I do is, I cook and I eat a lot of homemade meals or I'll pack it to the office. But the best thing that I found is really, instead of, it would just be so daunting to get home late at night and cook for myself every night this [inaudible 00:07:48] meal.

Sadie Kurzban:
So what I do is I cook a whole bunch on Sundays, like a bunch, as much as I can. I refrigerate enough for three days and then everything left over I freeze. So by the time the weekend rolls around, unfolding and I'm cooking again. So it's enough what I make on Sunday to really carry me through the week and within that what I've found is another tip within that is, that if I put all this pressure on myself to make these gourmet meals and I'm chopping onions and all these things, I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to wake up on Sunday and I'm going to think no way, no way. So instead I'll splurge a bit on the pain in the butt stuff like chopping onions, chopping garlic. This stuff that I know is going to come up in every recipe, I'll get those precut so I'll spend the extra dollar at trader Joe's knowing that someone else's has cut or a machine has cut the onions for me and that way I know I can make the meal in five minutes instead of taking me 15 minutes to make everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. That's so practical and it's also important because you aren't just sitting in an office, you actually go and teach these classes.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Sadie won that first $25,000 in college by doing something no one else did. She literally brought her own cheering section of happy clients. They were there to cheer for her, but they were also there with her. None of us can do everything alone. Sadie doesn't, she brings others along for the ride. If you do that in your life with anything, not just business, but anything that matters to you, include others, make them stakeholders in your success and also you can hear it in her voice, it just made it so much fun.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love Sadie's hybrid approach to cooking at home. You will not get a prize if you chop every single onion. It is more than okay to splurge and pay a little more to have some ingredients prepped for you so you're more likely to not only eat healthy but also not waste money ordering out and having food delivered. The key thing, and I'm still working on this myself, is the organizational element and the planning.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• 305 Fitness career opportunities

• Money with Friends podcast

• Sadie’s website - 305 Fitness

Follow Sadie!

• Instagram - @305fitness

• Twitter - @305fitness

• Facebook - @305fitness

• Pinterest - @305fitness

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sarah Larson Levey is becoming a familiar example of millennial entrepreneur success, recently being featured on the cover of Inc magazine and her company Y7 studio being named one of the magazine’s most inspiring companies last year. Keeping her costs at extreme minimal levels helped entrepreneur Sara Larson Levey grow her side hustle yoga startup while still working her full time job for two years.

Sarah's money story:

I actually was really unsatisfied with the yoga experiences that I was having throughout the city. It left me feeling really frustrated and lacking in what I was looking for. I wanted something where I could still move and sweat and get a really great workout in, but at the same time get that mental clarity that is touted for yoga. I just really couldn't find that so I decided to start my own place to practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's take it back a little. You're working in the fashion industry, you're married, you're in Brooklyn, you've got a job, you're busy, you're living your life. Most people, if they're not happy, they're going to fill out a form, a feedback form. You instead start a pop up. How does this happen and where does the money come from? Because you're 20 something, how old are you now?

Sarah L. Levey:
I'm 32 now. I was 26 at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most 26 year olds are dealing with other financial things. How did you literally start this? Where did the money come from? What did you do?

Sarah L. Levey:
The money came from my job. I have always been really good at saving. It was really just supposed to be a pop up at first, right? We found a super, super cheap space. We hired teachers off of Craigslist who are willing to work just to get the teaching experience and that was kind of it. As soon as we realized that this was going to be a thing that there were other people who resonated with the kind of yoga that we are providing, that's when I started looking for a little bit more of a permanent space.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things, and I know this as a student, the space is unique. Can you talk a little bit about that and also how do you pay for that? Especially in a pop up because there's a heat element to it. The studios are darkened. It's a very different atmosphere, so there's definitely some investing that has to go on when you set up a space.

Sarah L. Levey:
Yeah, I think for us, we really knew what we wanted and we were lucky enough to find a space that already didn't have windows. We brought in our own heaters and we rented it out by the hour. This space was actually a very large recording studio that was not used during morning hours on the weekends, and that's where we went in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's interesting because a lot of people don't think about that option to rent by the hour when you're starting a business. They might think you have to sign a lease for a longer period of time or come into a space. You were able to manage your cost that way.

Sarah L. Levey:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then how does it go? You have this pop up, how are you getting the word out and how do you start expanding and funding that expansion?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was all word of mouth. We would go out at like 4, 5:00 AM and just flier all over Williamsburg and Brooklyn where the first location was and that's how people came in. That was really all we did. It was all Instagram, Facebook and flyering around the neighborhood. We didn't have budget for anything. There was no budget to spare. Everything was being funded by my job and my husband's job at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get it to the next level? When do you feel you reached a critical point where you started thinking, this is really a thing and I might leave my job to do it? Because a side hustle doesn't always evolve.

Sarah L. Levey:
Right. It took a while. What's so great about New York is it is one of the few places where you can find a space that's willing to do a month to month or maybe do a split tenant kind of thing. We found a small 300 square foot space in an artist loft. All of the little suites were around 300 square feet. We paid a very, very small amount. Everything was included and we started out that way. The studio room could only fit 10 people maximum, and that's how we ran classes. We ran classes four a day before work and after work. I worked the front desk morning and night. My husband and I would switch off. The teachers were paid per student, so it was all dependent on them really getting the word out about their classes and bringing people in. We operated like that for a good nine months before we grew out of that space. Then we were fortunate enough to find another month to month space where we didn't really need to lay all this money out for security.

We were fortunate enough where the business was starting to generate enough cash that we could continue to float the business but that was it which is the reason that I continued working up until the spring of 2015. A good two years after we opened the studio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you and your husband having about money while this is going on? What was it like?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was interesting, it was the first time either of us had operated a business on a retail level. We didn't really know what we're doing, but I felt really confident that I didn't want to put classes on the schedule or do things around the studio that would put the vision of the experience in jeopardy. I wanted to always make sure we could pay rent, pay the teachers and also continue not to put pressure on ourselves so we could still do the things we wanted, have both really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the best thing you did in terms of financial decisions with the business and what's something that maybe you would do differently?

Sarah L. Levey:
That's a tough one because I love our journey so much. I think it's super interesting and an ode to really the fact that you can self-fund a business. We didn't take on private equity funding until we were six studios in and that was a choice on our part. It was definitely a little bit stressful but it was a choice we made so we could really hone the experience and not bring on partners who just had ideas to make more money, have a better cashflow. We were able to preserve the experience of the business. We included mat and towel at first and our laundry expenses were really, really high. I would have started charging for those immediately because we always felt the pinch around that. Other than that, I can't really see doing in another way.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you did take outside funding?

Sarah L. Levey:
We decided to take on outside funding to really be able to sign nicer spaces. If anyone has ever been to the Flatiron studio or the Union Square studio, those were studios that I painted the walls. I was the one on Craigslist finding people who could throw up a devising wall. We did all the electrical. We commissioned people to build the front desk or things like that. It was super, super bootstrapped. The more people that were coming in and out of the studio, we really wanted to have a little bit nicer amenities because it is hot yoga. We wanted to be able to have showers if we needed to and those things were really, really expensive. Taking on capital for us was a way to really open the doors to higher end retail spaces and have the money to invest in the build-outs.

Sarah’s money lesson:

I would say be realistic. It is totally okay to do two things at once and it's important, that way you don't lose sight of what your actual vision is. I think that if you're stressed about your personal finances, you're always going to be looking for ways to have your business make more money, right? Because you're feeling the pressure personally of like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? I think that's when people tend to lose the passion for their business because it becomes more of like, it's not growing fast enough, it's not doing what I want to do fast enough. A lot of good concepts take time and they take consistency to work. I would say just be really realistic and don't assume anything when you're planning. Don't assume things are going to work out exactly the way you want. There's always going to be hiccups and you have to be ready to combat that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an example of a hiccup that you can share?

Sarah L. Levey:
Oh yeah, of course. Our first Williamsburg studio was in the basement and there was a spring where we had a ton of snowstorms and then all of it melted and then it rained for like a week straight, the entire studio flooded. It cost us $20,000 which was a huge amount of money to us at the time. We had to replace all the floors, all the electrical. We had to redo basically the entire studio because of a flood. That's something that I never, I don't know, I'd never lived anywhere with a base. I don't know, it just didn't occur. It didn't occur to me and I was like, oh. I was like, I guess we have to close and do all this stuff. Then we had to get a mold check and just all of these things that you don't even think of. That was something that I was like, oh, okay, cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. Did you have insurance? Did you have insurance?

Sarah L. Levey:
Not at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but now you do.

Sarah L. Levey:
That is right. Lesson learned.

Sarah's everyday money tip:

Well, I used to all the time, purely out of convenience. I'm a big Postmates girl, I'm Postmating everything and then all of a sudden I was looking at my credit card bill. I was like, what am I spending so much money on? Everything was adding up. Once you do the delivery fee, you add the tip. I'm spending $30 on lunch every single day and it just adds up. Now I make a point where every Monday, I'm very lucky Whole Foods is directly across the street from our office. I stop at Whole Foods every Monday. I'll grab lettuce, vegetables, chicken, whatever it is so I have enough and I bring it to the office and I stick it in the fridge and it's basically like I have enough at the office to make lunch for myself every day. It takes so much pressure off of like making sure I order with enough time before I have to go to a meeting, being really stressed about it. It's here. I can make it when I need it and I'm set for the week.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips

1.Create additional stakeholders in your projects. Sarah empowered her initial round of teachers by paying them per students. The first win is that it saved Sarah on her cost, but the even more important thing it did was it rewarded the teachers for the impact that they made on the business. The more students they could bring, the more they made.

2.Buy insurance if you need it. Sarah blew it at first on this one. The flood sounds like it was a nightmare. Insurance would have cushioned the blow.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Sarah’s website - www.y7-studio.com

Follow Sarah and Y7!

• Facebook - @Y7Studio

• Twitter - @Y7Studio

• Instagram - @Y7Studio

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Getting a huge salary jump is awesome, but even with a big jump Paychecks & Balances podcast host, Rich Jones had some lessons to learn when his compensation skyrocketed. The entrepreneur behind the Show Starter shares his experiences, and how we can all get not just the best pay but also the best jobs. 

Rich’s Money Story:

Rich Jones:
Yeah, so by day I work at Google. I've been there for over five years. I'm moved to a tech startup called ScrollMotion, and it was the shortest role in my career, I'd only been there for about nine months. I actually got an email from a recruiter at Google and I thought it was spam. Even though my ultimate goal was to move to a big tech company, I kind of had this self-doubt of, "Oh wow, they're reaching out to me. Is this really a real role? Why are they reaching out to me in New York when this position is based in California?"

Rich Jones:
I went through the interview process and it probably took about three to four months, but then ultimately I ended up getting the job. I made the transition from New York City to California. And part of what I realized throughout the process that I think is really important, one is the importance of negotiation. And I learned this more for the role that I had at the tech startup because I won't say how, but I came across how much the person in that role before me made and it was a lot more than I had actually asked for.

Rich Jones:
And part of what I did not consider is that I worked at a nonprofit. Nonprofits typically pay a little bit less and when I saw an increase, I was so focused on one, getting out of that nonprofit because I realized that role wasn't for me, that I had this fear of not wanting to mess up the opportunities. I said, "Hey, this is a pay increase, this is great." Only to get there and find out that I actually could have asked for a lot more.

Rich Jones:
And what I've learned from tech companies like Google and Facebook, they really do try to do right by people, and instead of kind of negotiating people downward, they want to make sure that they bring people in at a fair market rate because they ultimately don't want to lose these people because the cost of hiring and losing someone is so high. Part of what I learned in the process is the importance of negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about the actual moment you got the job offer. Did they say the number first or did you?

Rich Jones:
They said the number first and it far exceeded the number that I had in mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this a phone conversation? What, where, how is this happening?

Rich Jones:
It was a phone conversation. I was ready to go back and forth and I had my numbers in mind, didn't realize that I was undercutting myself in the process and they made an offer that honestly had me floored. It was a no brainer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but did you ask for more?

Rich Jones:
I did not because it far exceeded what I was even looking for and I felt completely comfortable about the offer. The lesson here is having a number in mind and I made sure that I did research when I looked at this role to make sure that I wasn't going to get undercut. When they came back with a number that was far greater than what I had in mind, I could've went back and forth with them. And there are situations where I would say, "Hey, ask for more," but it was so much greater than what I thought it was going to be. Everything else about it made sense that it made sense for me to ultimately accept the role.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you find out the data about the previous employee that they were making more and about how much more was it, like a percentage-wise? Give me some sort of scale.

Rich Jones:
Oh, it was about 20 to $25,000 more. It was one of those things where I was doing some research in the system for a project and I saw what they were actually making. And I had this Wow! Moment of, "This is not good. I could have asked for a lot more." Part of what I've learned in my current role, especially because I work in staffing or worked in staffing for a number of years, even if I probably had asked for more for the role at Google I probably wouldn't have gotten it. Because I think one of the other mistakes I made is that at the time they would ask you what you were making today, and companies sometime anchor on that. Once we tell them what you're making, they just try to do a percentage increase. One thing I probably would have done differently is not actually share that salary information and just said come back-

Bobbi Rebell:
You shared it before they gave you the offer?

Rich Jones:
I did, I did. I did. And more states now are implementing policies or laws where companies can not ask for salary information specifically for that reason. I actually encourage people, if you're talking to a company and they ask what you're making today, that you not tell them that actual number and see what they come back with. If they come back with a number that's lower or even if it's a number that's right where you want to be, try the approach of, "Hey, I'm super excited about this offer. If we can get to X number, I'll be willing to sign this offer today." And that recruiter is incentivized to go back and see what they can do to ultimately get you that number that they want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you to take action after getting this information, did you go ask for a raise?

Rich Jones:
No, I did not ask for a raise because for me, my ultimate goal was to move to a company like Google or Facebook and it happened sooner than I expected and that's why I say it caught me off guard and I'm like, "Wow, they're reaching out to me." Because to me it was, "I'll get a couple of years of experience, I'll go and apply. Not this company will find me on LinkedIn because my profile is optimized and then contact me." I'd say over the course of three years, my total compensation increased by 200 to 250%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Rich Jones:
And while at that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Now wait, let me ask you, was that prompted by you becoming a better negotiator because you now have this information or they're just a generous company and that's kind of what they gave you?

Rich Jones:
I think it was more so prompted by things like updating my LinkedIn profile so that they could find me in the first place because there is applying for jobs, but then there's also recruiters who were out there every day looking for talent, scouring LinkedIn. I was that recruiter. Part of the insight knowledge I had was how a recruiter would go about looking for somebody who has a particular set of skills.

Rich Jones:
A big part for me was updating my LinkedIn profile so that if a recruiter was looking for someone who had a combination of HR experience and recruiting experience, and they had this profession in human resource certification, my profile would pop up. While it wasn't as heavy on the negotiation side, there were things that I did to optimize my profile and optimize myself so that if people were looking for someone with my skills, I would pop up in that search and I attribute it a lot more to that.

Rich Jones:
I think part of what's helped me maximize my raises and my increase, it's not so much that I had to negotiate a higher pay, it's that I documented my value and I documented the things that I did to bring more people in, the things that I did to a higher level of impact and then that was ultimately factored into my bonus percentage, which is on a scale. And that was ultimately factored into the salary increase, which is also one scale. It's funny going from being an individual contributor to a manager and then having to go through that same process, where if an employee didn't tell me all the things they did, I had so many things going on so I could not remember everything that they did.

Rich Jones:
But there would be times where they'd say, "Hey, I did this and I did that." And I'd be like, "Oh yeah, you did do this, and you did do that. You should be an exceeds expectation, versus a meets expectations." A lot of it is on the individual to make sure that they're documenting and that they're in a position to be able to show the value that they've added. I had it for that conversation, but also if an opportunity came up outside of the company, I had those things documented, which would then become answers for interview questions or things that I could put in my LinkedIn profile to further show my value and that I'm a high performer.

“I actually encourage people, if you are talking to a company and they ask what you are making today that you not tell that number and see what they come back with.”

Rich’s Money Lesson:

Rich Jones:
There's an article that came out from Glassdoor, a couple of years ago. For someone starting at a salary of $50,000, the difference in not negotiating a $5,000 increase when they're first starting could be the difference of $600,000 over the course of their working career. What people don't think about, we talk about compound interest when it comes to your savings account or when it comes to stocks and investing, but we don't talk about the compound effect of negotiating a higher salary.

Rich Jones:
Because if you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be a lot higher. There are people, they're actually scared to negotiate because they think that the company's going to pull the offer. And I can tell you from being on the employer's side, no recruiter or no company is going to rescind offer because you asked for something. In fact, we expect you to ask for something.

“If you start by negotiating up, then every salary that you negotiate going forward or every increase that you get going forward is going to be higher.”

Rich’s Money Tip:

Rich Jones:
A couple of apps that I really love today. One is Tiller. It allows you to connect your bank accounts and I'm someone that loves spreadsheets. And they have these templates and these customized spreadsheets where if you connect your accounts, it'll automatically pull in the information. You can see what you're spending on by category, if you're over or under or at budget. And there's also a feature where I get an email daily that anytime there's been a transaction, whether money coming in or money going out, I see that first thing in the morning.

Rich Jones:
And there've been times where I've said, "Wow, did I really just spend that much on food?" Or, "Wow, I forgot that I had that subscription." That's one service that I use to kind of see where my spending is going. But the other service that I really like, it's called Truebill, and initially this started out as an app that would monitor all your subscriptions and tell you where you could have a subscription canceled, where they can negotiate on your behalf to bring that subscription costs down.

Rich Jones:
And just even today before we recorded this interview, I've realized that I was getting double-billed for a particular subscription and now I'm in the process of having them resolve it for me so I don't have to deal with the process of calling in and talking to multiple people and going back and forth and sending emails. Pairing up apps, one, I have something that tells me where my money is going on a day to day basis, which keeps me sharp. And then two, I have a service that's monitoring my subscriptions, but it's also giving me a breakdown of how I'm spending for the month. And I can see that category by category and it kind of tells me if I'm doing too much, if I'm going over budget and I found both of those to be super helpful with each other.

“I can tell you from being on the employer side,  no company is going to rescind the offer because you asked for something. In fact we expect you to ask for something. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Manage up. Remember Rich, said to prepare for performance reviews, that's just part of it. This is all about communication with your supervisors. Those are the people who decide how much you get paid. Don't assume they know and in some cases even understand what you do and how valuable you have become to the company.

Financial grownup tip number two:

I love what Rich said about the very first salary being an anchor to ongoing salary negotiations. He is 100% correct, but at the same time, don't assume you are worth more than they're willing to pay. With the first job, you don't always bring as much to the table as you will in future jobs. Yes, you probably went to school and studied, but let's face it, in most cases the companies are also going to put a lot of resources into training you. Just factor in what you will learn as an employee when you are in that negotiation and be thoughtful about your asks.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Rich’s website - paychecksandbalances.com/

Follow Rich!

• Instagram - @paybalances

• Facebook - @paychecksandbalances

• Twitter - @PayBalances

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Jason Wolfe sold several companies for huge profits, including  GiftCards.com for 120 million dollars. The gifting entrepreneur grew up as an orphan at the Milton Hershey School when his mentally ill mother could not care for him. The lessons learned at the school focused on not just a strong work ethic and structure, but also specific lessons on building businesses with a spirit of generosity. 

“As you grow your business.. relationships and networking become so so important to make you successful.”

Jason's money story

I grew up very poor, on welfare. Mother had some mental issues. My dad took off. We thought he was dead. So I grew up in a place I'm not sure how many of your listeners know. There's a person named Milton Hershey, and Milton Hershey was the man who started the Hershey Chocolate Company. He started an orphanage in 1909 and he had it in his heart, him and his wife, to give back to needy children. So in 1915 or somewhere thereabouts, Catherine, his wife passes away. Instead of remarrying, instead of going off and spending a bunch of money, he spent more time with boys in the orphanage and decided to give his fortune to the Milton Hershey School, which is owned by the trust. And in 1945 left $84 million to the trust. Today it's worth $13 billion. I mean I grew up there.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your mother, under these unfortunate circumstances, sent you to live in the orphanage?

Jason Wolfe:
Yes, Yes she did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what age were you?

Jason Wolfe:
I was 10 years old. And I lived in sort of an agricultural environment with 16 boys. So I lived in a house and we milked cows and baled hay and straw and had that kind of life with two house parents and 16 brothers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Tell me about the lessons that you learned at the school as a young boy because that became instrumental in all of your success as an entrepreneur.

Jason Wolfe:
Well, I learned hard work obviously. Before going to Milton Hershey School, my mother being, you know, mentally disabled and not being able to take care of us, I was able to stay up until two o'clock in the morning wandering around the streets. It wasn't a hard town I lived in, but it was just one of those things. I didn't have structure or work ethic or anything like that. When I got to Milton Hershey School, I was not able to wander the streets til midnight or two o'clock. I had to get up at five o'clock in the morning, milk cows, get back from school, play sports, all the things that gave me structure in my life and hard work and taught me how to be more responsible.

Jason Wolfe:
What I also learned is I had something that I didn't realize I had until later in life, which is something that people are starting to measure now. It's not IQ and it's not how good looking you are, how good of an athlete you are, it's really that inside grit that you have. If you have grit, fortitude, I learned that that was something that I did have and I learned how to take that grit and form it into what it turned out to be a successful business career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they talking to you in the school about how you would support yourself as you grew up? Because that's something universally many parents struggle with. How to teach their children to be earnings-focused and in your case, entrepreneurial-focused. I mean where did that come from in the school environment?

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's incredible.

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah, so they didn't teach us at that time, again, this is in the 1980s, okay. So today the school is different. They have programs to help kids that go through high school to graduate to transition to the real world. Back when I was in that school, they didn't have that kind of thing. So I graduated from that school with a suitcase of clothes and a a hundred dollar check, of which I couldn't cash cause I had no bank account. I learned real quick what a check casher was actually, and I got $67 and 50 cents instead of the $100.

Jason Wolfe:
No I went off and I actually built my own life. I wasn't given tools to figure out how to do it. I did it on my own and I went through some major spinal surgery and was recovering and it was 1995. I taught myself how to write software. I created the first coupon site in 1995, because I bought a book from CompUSA at the time. I'm not even sure how I bought that book to tell you the truth. I didn't have any money. I was living out of my car. I honestly was living out of my car.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were living out of your car?

Jason Wolfe:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
For how long? And how did that happen?

Jason Wolfe:
It happened because I had a couple major surgeries, and I was living with somebody and I couldn't do what I used to be able to do. I was laid up. I was just not the same person. I became depressed after two major spinal surgeries. I just wasn't the same person, so she and I broke up. I had nowhere to go, of course. I grew up in the Hershey School. It's not like I had a family to go to, so I just basically lived in my car, and as I was living in my car, a friend of mine allowed me to use part of his office to put my computer, of which ... that's when I was learning how to build an internet business, and so I went from $4,000 that year in revenue to $35,000 the year after, to 1998 $180,000. '99 a million dollars. I raised a half a million dollars in venture capital in '99, and then I sold it right before the bubble burst in 2000 for $22 million.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What was the tipping point that got you mentally from living in a car to what you just talked about to that progression of incremental progress that then led to where you are today?

Jason Wolfe:
You know, Bobbi, I'm not sure, like I was saying a little earlier, I think some people have what is internally fortitude or grit, and you know it's something that we really haven't measured in our country. You know, when kids are growing up, we don't measure how much grit does this kid have or whatever else. It's something that I had and there was a lot of it, so I was able to pull through things, and then I also have faith in God. And so I believe with my faith and my grit, I was able to pull through some of the things I think a lot of people would not be able to pull through. That's for sure.

Jason’s money lesson

You find a street to go pull your car down that you can sleep in, so nobody will ... you know, the police won't come and get you. You know what I've learned through this is not only about grit and about fortitude, but I also learned the lesson of giving, honestly. I mean, look at Milton Hershey who left his entire fortune to help thousands of children. If it wasn't for Milton Hershey School, not only would I be homeless, I probably would have been in jail or much worse, probably dead. So I look at the lesson to be learned here and probably one of the subconscious reasons why I'm in the gifting business is about giving. It's about giving back and it's about gifting to other people because you can create joy with those people and you can create changes in people's lives. And although I was homeless, and living out of my car, I had a foundation that I learned from Milton Hershey that has proven to be something that was like a cornerstone of my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
So are there specific things that you think you did that made the difference? Clearly mindset, the things that you were talking about, is very important. Are there specific things that you did? It sounds like you had relationships with people that were still strong that you were able to leverage.

Jason Wolfe:
What I learned as I started to grow that business was to find good people that wanted to help with the cause I was doing. I found my first employee. I paid her $50 a month. But she was willing to see in me something that nobody else was seeing. And then I found another person to work for me, and she saw something in me too and she was encouraging me. And so although it wasn't like these grandiose business connections, it was connections with real people that were able to help me pull myself out of that sort of depression and living out of the car and believing in myself. So as I became more successful in business, I started to realize that those networks and those relationships, as you start thinking about them, as you grow your business beyond 50 people or a 100 people or 200 people, that relationships and networking become so, so important to make you successful. Having the right people on the bus in the right seats, but also connecting with people as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a way that you find those people?

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah, so in our hiring process, we have a very thorough deep hiring process. We're looking for specific people that are able to join our company with our specific culture that we have. 25 years of success building four companies and selling them profitably. We've been able to do it because the people that joined this company, because we go through a lot of effort to find the right people, but also the networking. I mean, so I'm on the Technology Council board. I try to attend social events. I try to connect with people. I try to connect other people with people and I try to give. And the more that you give, like we give to the tech council, I spend time helping people to grow, back in return comes much to me because of that. And I think as we can think of that, and then the listeners can think about the concept of giving as a financial resource to get back something for yourself. Not that you're doing it intentionally to get something, but it's just the way the universe works.

“When people give it .. makes them feel better, and actually uplifts them more than the person who receives the gift themselves”

Jason's everyday money tip

So I mean, I was looking into this and thinking about giving, and I was thinking about why does it make a difference? And it does. So for every act of giving, you could change the world for good.

I mean it's not like you're changing the world for bad. You're helping helping something. And it's been shown, I guess, and there's some studies, Harvard Business School did a study and found that when people give, it basically makes them feel better and actually uplifts them more than the person that receives the gift themselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's almost ... I hate to say it's almost like the endorphins you get from exercising. I mean, giving to people really will make your life richer, not just theirs.

Jason Wolfe:
Absolutely. And there are studies about it and there's also some studies about ... I was reading about a study in the University of California about how gifting can become contagious, and it inspires observers to feel like they have to be generous, which then it turns them to give more. So it's a contagious thing too. So not only giving makes you happy, it's contagious. And lastly, here's the cooler thing. Here's a real cool thing. Giving actually makes us healthier. So there was a study I was researching also at the University of California Berkeley, found that older people that volunteer, two or more organizations, are 44% less likely to die than their non-volunteers. So it makes us healthier too.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

Know the commission before any financial transaction and absolutely try to minimize or eliminate it. Jason kind of matter of factly gave the example of getting just $67 back after cashing a $100 check when he was young. I don't know how taking such a big percentage was even legal or the full circumstances behind that, but it is just not right. As an example in my life, my son and I recently went to deposit coins that he had saved. We found out that if you take those coins to one of those coin counting machines that make it, oh so easy, they count it for you, no muss, no fuss, except they take a commission of as much as almost 12% in some cases.


We ended up rolling the coins ourselves and bringing it to our bank's local branch, and we were able to keep all of the money. So it would have been $88. We kept $100 out of every hundred.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Take a step back and think about Jason's comments about generosity and how he believes that has driven his business goals, his strategy and yes, his success. Let's consider what we can do to support others often at no real cost to ourselves. Jason didn't focus on it, but the fact that his friend supported his early business efforts by offering Jason office space and resources, was a big driver in Jason's ability to start his first business.

Maybe you can make an introduction. Maybe you can offer someone a place to hold a meeting. Maybe you can just give someone your technical equipment when you upgrade. Maybe you can support them by saying something nice on social media. As Jason points out, generosity is a path to success.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jason’s website - www.JasonWolfe.com

Follow Jason!

• Facebook - @JasonSterlingWolfe

• Twitter - @JasonWolfe

• LinkedIn - @JasonSterlingWolfe

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Sarah Larson Levey is becoming a familiar example of millennial entrepreneur success, recently being featured on the cover of Inc magazine and her company Y7 studio being named one of the magazine’s most inspiring companies last year. Keeping her costs at extreme minimal levels helped entrepreneur Sara Larson Levey grow her side hustle yoga startup while still working her full time job for two years.

Sarah's money story:

I actually was really unsatisfied with the yoga experiences that I was having throughout the city. It left me feeling really frustrated and lacking in what I was looking for. I wanted something where I could still move and sweat and get a really great workout in, but at the same time get that mental clarity that is touted for yoga. I just really couldn't find that so I decided to start my own place to practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's take it back a little. You're working in the fashion industry, you're married, you're in Brooklyn, you've got a job, you're busy, you're living your life. Most people, if they're not happy, they're going to fill out a form, a feedback form. You instead start a pop up. How does this happen and where does the money come from? Because you're 20 something, how old are you now?

Sarah L. Levey:
I'm 32 now. I was 26 at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most 26 year olds are dealing with other financial things. How did you literally start this? Where did the money come from? What did you do?

Sarah L. Levey:
The money came from my job. I have always been really good at saving. It was really just supposed to be a pop up at first, right? We found a super, super cheap space. We hired teachers off of Craigslist who are willing to work just to get the teaching experience and that was kind of it. As soon as we realized that this was going to be a thing that there were other people who resonated with the kind of yoga that we are providing, that's when I started looking for a little bit more of a permanent space.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things, and I know this as a student, the space is unique. Can you talk a little bit about that and also how do you pay for that? Especially in a pop up because there's a heat element to it. The studios are darkened. It's a very different atmosphere, so there's definitely some investing that has to go on when you set up a space.

Sarah L. Levey:
Yeah, I think for us, we really knew what we wanted and we were lucky enough to find a space that already didn't have windows. We brought in our own heaters and we rented it out by the hour. This space was actually a very large recording studio that was not used during morning hours on the weekends, and that's where we went in.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's interesting because a lot of people don't think about that option to rent by the hour when you're starting a business. They might think you have to sign a lease for a longer period of time or come into a space. You were able to manage your cost that way.

Sarah L. Levey:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then how does it go? You have this pop up, how are you getting the word out and how do you start expanding and funding that expansion?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was all word of mouth. We would go out at like 4, 5:00 AM and just flier all over Williamsburg and Brooklyn where the first location was and that's how people came in. That was really all we did. It was all Instagram, Facebook and flyering around the neighborhood. We didn't have budget for anything. There was no budget to spare. Everything was being funded by my job and my husband's job at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get it to the next level? When do you feel you reached a critical point where you started thinking, this is really a thing and I might leave my job to do it? Because a side hustle doesn't always evolve.

Sarah L. Levey:
Right. It took a while. What's so great about New York is it is one of the few places where you can find a space that's willing to do a month to month or maybe do a split tenant kind of thing. We found a small 300 square foot space in an artist loft. All of the little suites were around 300 square feet. We paid a very, very small amount. Everything was included and we started out that way. The studio room could only fit 10 people maximum, and that's how we ran classes. We ran classes four a day before work and after work. I worked the front desk morning and night. My husband and I would switch off. The teachers were paid per student, so it was all dependent on them really getting the word out about their classes and bringing people in. We operated like that for a good nine months before we grew out of that space. Then we were fortunate enough to find another month to month space where we didn't really need to lay all this money out for security.

We were fortunate enough where the business was starting to generate enough cash that we could continue to float the business but that was it which is the reason that I continued working up until the spring of 2015. A good two years after we opened the studio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversations were you and your husband having about money while this is going on? What was it like?

Sarah L. Levey:
It was interesting, it was the first time either of us had operated a business on a retail level. We didn't really know what we're doing, but I felt really confident that I didn't want to put classes on the schedule or do things around the studio that would put the vision of the experience in jeopardy. I wanted to always make sure we could pay rent, pay the teachers and also continue not to put pressure on ourselves so we could still do the things we wanted, have both really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the best thing you did in terms of financial decisions with the business and what's something that maybe you would do differently?

Sarah L. Levey:
That's a tough one because I love our journey so much. I think it's super interesting and an ode to really the fact that you can self-fund a business. We didn't take on private equity funding until we were six studios in and that was a choice on our part. It was definitely a little bit stressful but it was a choice we made so we could really hone the experience and not bring on partners who just had ideas to make more money, have a better cashflow. We were able to preserve the experience of the business. We included mat and towel at first and our laundry expenses were really, really high. I would have started charging for those immediately because we always felt the pinch around that. Other than that, I can't really see doing in another way.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did things change when you did take outside funding?

Sarah L. Levey:
We decided to take on outside funding to really be able to sign nicer spaces. If anyone has ever been to the Flatiron studio or the Union Square studio, those were studios that I painted the walls. I was the one on Craigslist finding people who could throw up a devising wall. We did all the electrical. We commissioned people to build the front desk or things like that. It was super, super bootstrapped. The more people that were coming in and out of the studio, we really wanted to have a little bit nicer amenities because it is hot yoga. We wanted to be able to have showers if we needed to and those things were really, really expensive. Taking on capital for us was a way to really open the doors to higher end retail spaces and have the money to invest in the build-outs.

Sarah’s money lesson:

I would say be realistic. It is totally okay to do two things at once and it's important, that way you don't lose sight of what your actual vision is. I think that if you're stressed about your personal finances, you're always going to be looking for ways to have your business make more money, right? Because you're feeling the pressure personally of like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? I think that's when people tend to lose the passion for their business because it becomes more of like, it's not growing fast enough, it's not doing what I want to do fast enough. A lot of good concepts take time and they take consistency to work. I would say just be really realistic and don't assume anything when you're planning. Don't assume things are going to work out exactly the way you want. There's always going to be hiccups and you have to be ready to combat that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an example of a hiccup that you can share?

Sarah L. Levey:
Oh yeah, of course. Our first Williamsburg studio was in the basement and there was a spring where we had a ton of snowstorms and then all of it melted and then it rained for like a week straight, the entire studio flooded. It cost us $20,000 which was a huge amount of money to us at the time. We had to replace all the floors, all the electrical. We had to redo basically the entire studio because of a flood. That's something that I never, I don't know, I'd never lived anywhere with a base. I don't know, it just didn't occur. It didn't occur to me and I was like, oh. I was like, I guess we have to close and do all this stuff. Then we had to get a mold check and just all of these things that you don't even think of. That was something that I was like, oh, okay, cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. Did you have insurance? Did you have insurance?

Sarah L. Levey:
Not at the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but now you do.

Sarah L. Levey:
That is right. Lesson learned.

Sarah's everyday money tip:

Well, I used to all the time, purely out of convenience. I'm a big Postmates girl, I'm Postmating everything and then all of a sudden I was looking at my credit card bill. I was like, what am I spending so much money on? Everything was adding up. Once you do the delivery fee, you add the tip. I'm spending $30 on lunch every single day and it just adds up. Now I make a point where every Monday, I'm very lucky Whole Foods is directly across the street from our office. I stop at Whole Foods every Monday. I'll grab lettuce, vegetables, chicken, whatever it is so I have enough and I bring it to the office and I stick it in the fridge and it's basically like I have enough at the office to make lunch for myself every day. It takes so much pressure off of like making sure I order with enough time before I have to go to a meeting, being really stressed about it. It's here. I can make it when I need it and I'm set for the week.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips

1.Create additional stakeholders in your projects. Sarah empowered her initial round of teachers by paying them per students. The first win is that it saved Sarah on her cost, but the even more important thing it did was it rewarded the teachers for the impact that they made on the business. The more students they could bring, the more they made.

2.Buy insurance if you need it. Sarah blew it at first on this one. The flood sounds like it was a nightmare. Insurance would have cushioned the blow.

Episode Links:

Sarah’s website - www.y7-studio.com

Follow Sarah and Y7!

• Facebook - @Y7Studio

• Twitter - @Y7Studio

• Instagram - @Y7Studio

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Dani Nagel has had to defend her pricey Dazey-LA t-shirts but her refusal to cave to pressure to ship manufacturing overseas is winning her fans, and a growing army of ambassadors. She shares her strategies to leverage social media to create transparency, and grow her feminist brand.

Dani's money story:

Dani Nagel:
For sure. I love that article and when it came out, I didn't know what the title was going to be, I just did the interview with them, and I just laughed out loud. Literally the title was Why Thousands of People Are Spending $52 On These T-shirts. And it does seem so backwards because people are used to paying $20 maybe $30 for a shirt, and our shirts are $52, and they're made to order so people are waiting sometimes three weeks to get their shirts. So it seems so backwards in this Amazon age of people getting things in a couple of days at rock bottom prices. But we are all about slow fashion and we make our shirts sustainably out of organic cotton right here in Los Angeles, and they're made to order to eliminate all waste.

“I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our t’s and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted.”

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come to the idea that you're going to produce garments this way? Because I'm sure people said to you, "Oh, you should just offshore this and you can retail them for under 10 bucks."

Dani Nagel:
Oh, totally. Every time I look at the prices of producing it in a different place, it's tempting. I'm not going to do it. Like I'm strong standing by my values, but oh my gosh, it's very tempting. You can get things made for a fraction of the price. But another big part of my clothing line is all about female empowerment, and I believe in order to be a truly empowering company, every person that touches our tees and is a part of this process needs to be positively impacted. And the truth is that most clothing companies can't say that. Production overseas is extremely inhumane and the garment workers are being oppressed, they're being in dangerous working conditions, paid extremely low wages, and we couldn't be a company that stood for female empowerment and put empowering phrases on our shirts without also thinking about everyone a part of that process.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you presented these shirts to interested parties, investors, et cetera, what was the reaction? Was there pushback?

Dani Nagel:
You know, where we get the most pushback is when we do Facebook ads, because people just don't understand and they're quick to judge. But luckily with our customers we spend so much time on social media educating them why the shirt costs that much and why it's truly valuable and it should cost that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And can you tell us more about where is the money going? I don't know if you can literally break down $52 but whatever you feel comfortable disclosing.

Dani Nagel:
Our shirts are actually made to order in Los Angeles, which is really crazy and nobody really does that because it's really difficult. But by doing that, we've been able to eliminate all waste in our production, which is one of the biggest reasons why the fashion industry is the number two polluting industry in the world, there's so much waste. We have partnered with an amazing production company. My production partner, Kelly, has worked with us. We're the Guinea pigs on this big project he had and we met right when I was starting Dazey. And he has a facility in Los Angeles. They small batch make the shirts, so they'll make like 10 shirts in mustard and 10 shirts in off-white. And when the shirts are ordered, that's when they're printed. So it's a really complicated process and it does take time and we really embrace the term slow fashion as literally this is going to be slow. We use that a lot in our marketing.

Dani’s money lesson:

“if you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production which is the person making it and paying them a fair living wage.”

I'm happy to stand up for our shirts every time we get one of those comments, like trolls on Instagram. And since our clothing is so much about female empowerment, some people see the price of our shirts and say something like, "Okay, your shirts aren't economically inclusive." Our brand is all about inclusivity, empowerment and people will say that. And my response to them is, "If you really want to consider being economically inclusive, you have to think about the very bottom of this chain of production, which is the person making it, and paying them a fair living wage is truly what is going to be as economically inclusive as possible." And the truth is when you're paying $20, I mean maybe not $20, like $10, even 20 honestly for these shirts, someone else is paying the cost. That's usually somebody in the line of production being taken advantage of by these fast fashion companies. So I think the most feminist thing is paying for a shirt where everyone is being treated fairly in the process.

Dani's everyday money tip:

And as a slow fashion brand working with really tight margins, which people are always surprised to hear even with the $52 shirts, our margins are tight, making things to order here in LA, so I have to be really careful about our budgeting as a company and where I allocate my time as a small business owner. And something I did with my business coach, which really opened my mind to finances and allocating time was creating a list of how much time you spend doing each task and how much money that task generates. And she had me write down a list, and a couple of things on my list was our online blog. We run a blog, we promote a lot of other female owned businesses, talk about empowerment, and we were spending so much time curating this truly beautiful blog, almost like an article media website. And the truth is not a lot of people are reading our long form content.

And then I wrote down the time I spent on our ambassador program, which is something that generates a lot of money, and I was spending way more time on the blog that wasn't really generating us money and not enough time into our ambassador program. And putting it down on paper and looking at it was like a smack in the face and I realized I needed to better allocate my time. So once every few months, I sit down and kind of write down all the tasks I'm doing and what I'm getting back from those tasks, and I reprioritize the things. It's made a huge impact on our super nimble bootstraps business.

Episode Links:

Dani’s website - www.dazeyla.com

The Forbes article - Why Thousands Of Customers Pay $52 For These T-Shirts

Follow Dani!

• Instagram - @Dazey_LA

• Instagram - @Dazey_Dessert_House

• Instagram - @BizBabez

• Twitter - @dazey_la

• Facebook - @DazeyLA

Entrepreneur Charlotte Hale faced a big business dilemma.  When she named what she expected to be a seasonal business, Plum Pretty Sugar, she wanted to evoke a whimsical tone. But the brand soon became a powerhouse as the originator and pioneer of the now global multi-million dollar bridal ‘getting ready’ category, and she faced a challenge she compares to adulting but for brands. 

In Charlotte's money story you will learn:

Let's talk about the name, Plum Pretty Sugar, which makes you happy to saying it. I asked you before we started rolling how you came up with it and that was actually an interesting story because you think things are going to be one way when you start a project and then maybe not so much and maybe that's okay. Tell us your money story.

Yes. After my initial business, I was looking for what my next business was going to be. I didn't really have all the answers. I started what I thought would be a temporary business and it was something that sold robes and it was going to be for a season. By season, I mean a holiday season and just something that I could do easily and quickly and was also fun for me. I thought to myself, okay, well, what am I going to call this business? I gave it this fun, whimsical, playful name, Plum Pretty Sugar. Of course, one thing led to another and Plum Pretty Sugar is now the business. I still have the name obviously.

Did you think about changing the name? Do people approach you about the name? Because I had trouble saying it at the same time when I saw it on the screen, it made me happy. There's something very, as you say, very whimsical about it. Was there a story behind when you thought of the name? Do people talk to you about it and ask you about it now? Does it invite curiosity?

It always invites curiosity and when I named the business Plum Pretty Sugar, I wanted to have something that sort of went against the grain of everything you learned in business school, right? They tell you, you shouldn't have something that has more than three words and you shouldn't have alliteration, and you should create a word that means nothing that could mean everything, i.e. Google, Nike, et cetera. I just went against the grain entirely. You know, of course, I do think about it periodically in terms of, oh my gosh, it's so long, but at the same time it's so long that people almost remember it because it's so long or they changed the words kind of like you did.

Of course, we own all the URLs and all the versions of the order but because it's so long and people are like, "I forget the name," but they know it has pretty plum and plum pretty and sugar are built in there. It almost becomes memorable in a way. On the flip side, I sometimes want it to feel more sophisticated and elegant and more representative of where we are today. That's something that's sort of in my heart. When I say that to other people, they're like, but it is, it represents your brand perfectly. To the outside, I think it works. For me personally because I know where it started and why I started it, I have this back and forth kind of personal thing with it. It's fun. I do like it and we love the business.

It's interesting because you look back and it was almost a whimsical decision in and of itself, but it really was a pivotal branding decision that when you switch the business from being this seasonal business that you originally conceived of to being the permanent business, it's now a decade old, I should say. You did make a decision at some point to keep the name.

I did. I did. I really wrestled with that. You know, I thought, well, I have established the success. Why am I now going to go and change it? You know, it wasn't something that I could easily make up a story for or a marketing story for a while. This was great, but now I'm going to change it. I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward. That said, you know, we have done a couple of different collections that we've called for instance, PPS couture and we will reference ourselves sometimes as PPS when we need to or when we think that it's just a little bit too long for that given scenario. Also, another lesson is that it's really long to write as a logo and so we're always like, okay, how are we going to do our logo when we're ready for a logo update to make all those letters fit within a certain space or how people want logos to fit.

It does sound like what's happening is you are allowing the brand to grow up by having these things like PPS couture, you're adapting it for how the brand is evolving.

Yeah, we really are. I think also the connotation that I have and the whimsicality that it had for me initially, which kind of felt really sort of, I don't want to say young, but fun and lively. Now the way we've reiterated the letters a little bit differently and we're using the positioning of the logo a little bit differently and within the opportunities that we have, we're kind of growing up those words and trying to think of them differently. Sometimes it can be a challenge, but I don't think we can ever take away the name.

“What you think is temporary could be permanent whether it is a boyfriend .. or a business.. what you do in the early days impacts the long term”

In Charlotte’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, I guess, never think that something is temporary, what you think is temporary. It could be permanent, whether it's a boyfriend or a husband or business to a business. You know, what you do in the early days impacts the long-term and there's no doubt about that. To always think it through thoroughly and make smart decisions. I kind of knew in my gut when I named it, I was doing something that was kind of off the books and I probably should have listened to that at the time. We're going ahead and the name is staying.

Well, I like the name. I think it makes people feel happy. I think that it's serving you very well and like I said, I think you guys seem to have the way to adapt it in ways that will help the brand grow.

"Purchase quality pieces, think about who made them, where they came from and live with them for a long time.”

In Charlotte's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think for us and we talk about this in the brand too is just purchasing quality pieces, whether it's clothing or whether it's anything in your life, really, just to purchase quality pieces. Think about who made them, where they came from, and to live with them for a long time. For us as a brand that's important because we are in clothing and there is a decent amount of waste and we try not to be wasteful and we don't want to see whether it's clothing or plastic or whatever it is in landfills, for now, for our children, for our future. Buying quality pieces really, really can impact what we put in the landfill.

What are some specific things that our listeners can look for to know that something has been made in a responsible way and that is going to be long-lasting, et cetera?

Yeah. Shopping smaller, shopping locally, paying attention to the price point when something is 7.99 or $5 and it's almost like it's too good to be true then I think you really have to start thinking about who made this and what type of environment because it's just too cheap. That doesn't happen. You know, there's a cost for yardage. There's a cost for environmentally friendly ink. There's a cost to pay workers what they're supposed to be paid. When something is really too cheap, just think about it a couple of different ways and make sure that you really need it and want it.

“I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup tip number one. It goes to that saying that you should give a lot of thought to how you name a brand as much as it is possible, choose something that can evolve and grow with the business. It's also important to look at how others may remember that brand name and on that note, I want to point out something that Charlotte said sort of in passing. She has the URLs for all the ways people might mess up the name of her company. Grabbing a few extra URLs when you're setting up a business or a side hustle is inexpensive and really easy to do. I own close to 30 URLs tied to my various projects and ideas and side hustles. You know what? The cost is really minimal.

Set them up so that if someone types in something close to your business, they still find you. Make it as easy as possible for potential clients and customers and of course also friends and family that you want to be able to find your projects and your businesses. Financial Grownup tip number two, don't fight who you become as you grow up and go through the seasons and the milestones of life. Maybe just highlight different parts of who you are at that time. Yes, you will change, but the essence of who you are will not. Just like Plum Pretty Sugar still reflects the same essential vibe as the earlier versions, the earlier iterations of the business. It's just evolving and growing as it expands. This show is free for you but as I hope you guys can tell, we do put a lot of time, energy, and yes, there's a financial cost into this show and to keep it free for you, we do need your support.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

www.PlumPrettySugar.com

Follow Charlotte!

• Instagram - @PlumPrettySugar

• Personal Instagram - @CharlotteJayneHale

• Facebook - @PlumPrettySugar

• Twitter - @PlumPrettySugar

• Pinterest - @PlumPrettySugar

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Quilt co-founder Ashley Sumner faced a totally unexpected and massive tuition bill mid-way through college after her dad’s business took a hit in the recession. The skills she learned in rising to the challenge led her first to a matchmaking business, and later to create  Quilt- a tech platform that connects female entrepreneurs online and in person.  

In Ashley's money story you will learn:

It's definitely not the lesson I thought I was going to be learning during those formative years. I can say that I'm very grateful for my upbringing, my family worked very hard, were entrepreneurs and we had a very financially stable life. My father, who had financially supported me my entire life, while I was the middle way going through school at NYU, which is arguably one of the most expensive private schools in the country, went from being a multimillionaire and extremely wealthy man to basically losing everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
What, just quickly, what had happened? Was he in an industry that changed?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, he's a land developer. He's an interest, he has a fascinating story, he kind of grew up with nothing, ran away from home, built up his entire career, learned this real estate trade and land development, moved west, one of the kind of first guys to go out and build land and I think during the financial crash while I was at school in 2008 everything changed and it really wasn't kind of prepared for it. He's actually since rebuilt himself up so his story is a fascinating one financially as well. But it was definitely-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you went to college with basically the understanding that you were not focused on financing your own college, it was going to be paid for, but I take it there wasn't actual money in an account that was separated?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, exactly. He was going to pay for the entirety of it, that was a huge part of my decision actually to go and be a musical theater major, because everybody knows you don't really graduate diving into a six figure salary and yeah that was a huge shift that took place a couple of years in, right while I was gearing up to start auditioning.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was the talk like? What happened, did you just get a phone call one day that, "Honey, the money that was set aside for your college I need to use to rebuild my business." Or was it a gradual process, what was it like?

Ashley Sumner:
It was kind of an ongoing conversation, I mean I saw him struggle quite a bit and I've always been grateful for his capacity to show up and financially support me, throughout all of my dreams and very precocious childhood, lots of very big dreams to move to New York City from this small town. It was something that had been happening year over year and he really did try to continue to show up and support me and it was really more towards the end when I was graduating and trying to finalize my final year and where I was going to live and what I was going to start doing that we kind of came to an understanding that it was time. And I had this weird kind of desire to also ... I knew that it was time to learn, learn how to take care of myself, it was terrifying.

Ashley Sumner:
But I also knew that it was one of those things that I just trusted was going to really teach me some of the foundational things that I needed to know that I honestly beleive are the reason why I'm here today as a founder and I've been able to raise money and do some of the things that I'm so grateful to be able to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things I love is the next part of the story which is rather than just getting a job, you started a business.

Ashley Sumner:
I did. Yeah, I am definitely scrappy and the daughter of entrepreneurs, I can say that. I figured out that I had a knack in sales but not just any sales, in the space of matchmaking, so I had started, I had a start up in the matchmaking space and ultimately went on to have my own with some partners. And yeah it was just a skill that I had, you needed very little to get started outside of an ability to meet with and connect with people and listen to their needs and provide that value and that's very much the beginning of my community development career which has led me to my passion and purpose in helping others connect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because like, and we're going to go back and talk more about Quilt, but it does make sense because you're matchmaking. Instead of romantic matchmaking you're actually matchmaking for different kinds of relationships. I do want to just touch on the fact that while you were doing this, first working for somebody but then very much an entrepreneurial venture, you still kept auditioning and I think that's really inspiring because it shows people that you don't have to give up one dream to fund the other dream.

Ashley Sumner:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were able to do both.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, you know we're in the hyphen-hyphen-hyphen and I've been very proud of the multitude, I think, of starting off as soft skills and now hard skills that I've always had, an ability, I think, to architect. We can architect the way we want our lives to be and we don't need to kind of follow any traditional step by step or climbing a ladder and I'm grateful that my parents taught me that.

“We can architect the way we want our lives to be, and we don’t need to follow any traditional step by step or climbing the ladder”

In Ashley’s money lesson you will learn:

I think so much of having debt which I was under the weight of until six months ago is the head trash that comes along with it. I think there's a lot of shame and judgment and guilt around having that and seeing that there and there really are a lot of, I don't need to bore you with all of the ways that are out there, the practical ways that you can kind of chip off and get above water and start to breathe again. But I think kind of the mental game that it can play on you if you don't learn how to let go and understand that it's just a day by day, month by month, year by year planning, that's kind of my tip which is don't make it worse by also being so hard on yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of us, not only judge other people, but judge ourselves too harshly.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, absolutely, I am my harshest critic. I was very ashamed to even share it with anyone, I kind of felt a little bit like an imposter or a fraud in having it. But every time I looked at it my refrain was like, "Those choices helped me get to where I am today and I'm so happy where I am today." So otherwise, who knows if I hadn't take that risk if it wouldn’t have led to now?

“It was empowering to understand how resourceful I am and how I could come up with non-traditional ways of making money”

In Ashley's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, you know I have to give our head of product kudos for this, who teaches me all of those like tech savvy things. But I recently moved and I've recently learned about the abandoned cart method, when you're buying certain things online, just like leave it in the cart, walk away, go have a bit, go for a workout and then you come back and there's a miraculous little discount code hanging out in your inbox. So I think I've saved about $500 in the past few days on all of the new items that are on it's way to my home.

Financial Grown Up tip number one:

Ashley talked about the shame of debt. The reality is that debt can be a way to accomplish goals, so if you have debt for a good reason, and I'm not talking about excessive shopping sprees and all that stereotypical stuff, but I'm talking about good stuff. In her case paying for a great college education, as Ashley says, get rid of the mental trash, do not be ashamed, if it's your thing to talk about it externally, to socialize it, to talk to people about it because for some people accountability can really motivate you to pay it off faster or to figure out the right plan for you. But it's also okay to be something that you don't talk about, it doesn't have to be everyone's business, not everything about your finances for sure needs to be public, it's okay to keep it private.

Financial Grown Up tip number two:

Be sensitive and aware of what is happening financially to your parents, as is appropriate, at the appropriate age, however you define it and also of course to other members of your family, your generation and other generations. Ashley was so gracious in speaking about her fathers experiences, wealth is not always consistent, we'd like it to be, we can do things in our control to create financial stability but sometimes well a recession hits, as happened. Or an investment just doesn't perform as you had hoped and has all the research and how all the research had implied it would work. Or a business is simply struggling, things go through cycles, life is messy as they say. If your parents or members of your family can help you, maybe it's grandparents, maybe it's aunts, uncles, siblings, whatever, say thank you. But for the times that they can't, be there for them in the way that makes sense for your family.

Episode Links:

Melanie Lockhart's Financial Grownup episode

Lola conference

Check out Ashley's website -

www.WeAreQuilt.com

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram - @WeAreQuilt

• Twitter - @WeAreQuilt

• Facebook - @WeAreQuilt

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Erin Lowry, author of Broke Millennial Takes on Investing thought her new hubby was all set when he assured her he had bought life insurance to protect his parents obligation to his student debt. But a chance discovery revealed the insurance was not what either of them thought he had purchased. 

In Erin's money story you will learn:

• Erin is a newlywed - Congrats again Erin!!

• Her husband had a huge amount of student debt that his parents had co-signed for

• She suggested that he get life insurance so that, in the unfortunate event that he were to lose his life, the debt wouldn't pass to his parents

• She found out that the life insurance he got was Whole Life insurance instead of Term Life insurance

• Why Whole Life Insurance wasn't the best for him

• The difference between Whole Life Insurance and Term Life Insurance

In Erin’s money lesson you will learn:

• Fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can’t do anything that is harmful to you.

• Her husband was sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him

In Erin's everyday money tip you will learn:

• When she receives change back from a purchase, she saves the $5 bills. In 2018 she saved over $1000 to use towards her honeymoon

In My Take you will learn:

• There’s a lot of financial jargon out there. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don’t understand.

• I’ve been talking a lot recently about what I call the Family Ecosystem. You are not just responsible for yourself, even if you are single.

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Erin Lowry:
My editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy." And I thought, "You know what? You're right." Then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello Financial Grownup friends. Have you ever had a conversation with someone that in your mind was totally straight forward? The conversation was totally straight forward with no room for error or misunderstanding, super clear and clear to them, they said they got it, but there was one deal once you didn't realize you had been silent to and they didn't know to ask about and that caused things to go very wrong? Well, it happened to newlywed author, Erin Lowry, and it serves as a real warning to all of us because it can happen to a money expert and her new husband.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, by the way, and thanks for joining us, new listeners, so glad you have found us. DM me if you have a sec, bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi Rebell on Twitter and let me know how you discovered the show and what you would like to hear. We do this for you. Let's get to our guest. Her new book is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, which after you hear more about it will definitely be something you want to pick up. Here is Erin Lowry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erin Lowry, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erin Lowry:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited. I've been waiting to have you on my show for over a year and we said we're going to wait and hold off until your next book comes out and it's happening. It is Broke Millennial Takes On Investing and people should know this. This is a followup to your first book, Broke Millennial, and there's actually going to be a third one, which is pretty unheard of to do like a three ... Do we call it a hat trick to get a three book deal? That's pretty amazing. So congratulations on all.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, but first we're going to do your money story. You're a newlywed. Congratulations on your wedding and that comes with merging finances and you start to learn about the love of your life in different ways. In this case you learned that your now husband did the right thing, but made the wrong choice in a big financial decision and it just shows how complicated things are. It had to do with student loans and insurance. Tell us the story.

Erin Lowry:
It also shows that when you give somebody advice they take it sometimes, but don't take it in the way that you intended, which was a big part of what happened here. And for context, my husband, whom I call Peach, he has student loans. When this whole thing went down, first of all, it was not an insignificant amount. I don't really share his number, but it was a hefty chunk of change.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're talking about student debt?

Erin Lowry:
Student loan debt. Yep. And a big chunk of those student loans were private student loans that his parents had cosigned on, which meant that if something happened to him, his parents would still be responsible for paying off those loans and by something happening, I mean, if he died, and the debt was still there. His parents would still be required to pay off that student loan debt. Now, I want to say right now, some companies have changed their policies and started to discharging debt and most federal student loans can be discharged in death, but not necessarily the case with private.

Erin Lowry:
After we have this conversation, this was a few years before we got married, I said, "I think it would be prudent for you to get a life insurance policy on yourself because seriously having forbid something happen, your parents are still on the hook for a lot of money and that could really impact their ability to retire. So you should have a life insurance policy that has them as the beneficiaries."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And the good news is he took your advice.

Erin Lowry:
He did. And I just kind of said it. I wasn't even necessarily like, "Go do this right now." He went and got a life insurance policy and a few months later I was actually writing an article on life insurance and I interviewed him for it. He told me how much he was paying every month and what the payout would be. And I wrote the article up and my editor wrote me back and said, "Hey, this amount seems pretty high for a mid 20-something who's healthy."

Erin Lowry:
I thought, "You know what? You're right." And then it dawned on me, "Uh-oh, he probably got a whole life insurance policy." So I go back and I went, "Hey babe, what kind of life insurance policy did you get?"

Bobbi Rebell:
"Hey babe, let's talk life insurance tonight?"

Erin Lowry:
So sexy. It's such a great topic. He had indeed gotten a whole life insurance policy and I tried not to get any sort of aggressive about it. He was like, "Why?"

Bobbi Rebell:
He's like, "Aren't you proud of me? I went out and got life insurance just like you said," and he had actually talked to somebody. He didn't even go out blindly and just kind of buy it ... I don't even know if you can literally just buy it on the web. There's obviously a step that you have to take. But he did proactively talk to somebody about it and get "advice" and I put advice in quotation marks.

Erin Lowry:
And that was where the problem was, is the person that he talked to was essentially pitching him a product, and listen, the pitch on whole life insurance is great. It does sound really good, I get it. But on the backend, this salesperson, and I'm going to call them a salesperson also probably got a commission for signing him up for whole life insurance. This is a fiduciary versus suitability conversation. Fiduciary meaning it's in your best interest. Suitability, just meaning it's suitable for you. Whole life is suitable for him, but it certainly wasn't the best product for him, what his needs were and what his age was.

Erin Lowry:
Even what it is now, it doesn't make sense for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Could you explain a little bit about why? Why was whole life insurance not right for him and how is that different from term life, which is what was appropriate for him.

Erin Lowry:
Without getting into the weeds on technicalities, a big part of it really is one, the monthly premium that you're paying on a whole life insurance policy is usually significantly more expensive than term. Significant can be kind of a subjective term, but he was at the time in his mid 20s trying to pay off student loans, living in New York City and he's a public school teacher. So $25.50 a month in his budget does make a really big difference.

Erin Lowry:
That was thing one and two term life insurance is usually much lower monthly payments, typically a higher payout. It's just for a shorter period of time and it's a use it or lose it policy. So if you stay alive, which "Yay! You stay alive," and don't use it, the policy eventually just expires. So some people don't like this feeling of, "Well, I never see a return on my money," but that's true. Really most insurances that we pay for, if you have auto insurance and never get in a car accident, yay, you didn't get in a car accident, but also what were you paying for? You we're just paying for the protection.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so term life does not have an investment component and therefore when the term is over, if you do not use it, which we hope we don't use it, there is nothing left. There's no benefit at all. You have just spent the money and the money that you spent on those premiums is gone, but it is less money.

Erin Lowry:
It's less money. You can be putting the money that you're not spending towards other financial goals and or investments. The other thing you've got to think about is does this particular product make the most sense for you? Whole life insurance does make sense for some people. It didn't make sense for him at the time. Maybe way down the line it will make more sense, but right now all he needed was a basic simple term life insurance policy.

Bobbi Rebell:
What finally happened?

Erin Lowry:
He called the folks back up that had sold him the whole life insurance policy and said, "Hey, this isn't actually what I wanted. I want a term policy." The woman tried to talk him into staying with the whole, he was adamant-

Bobbi Rebell:
No. Oh, I hate that.

Erin Lowry:
Yep. So there was a back and forth, but he was adamant about switching to term. He switched to term, has a really basic policy. Now that we're married, actually we have to have a whole other conversation about life insurance as well in our own estate planning, but he still does have that policy because those student loans still do exist. We're working on getting rid of them and his parents are still the beneficiary because again, if something happened to him, even though he and I are married, if something happens to him, his parents would still be on the hook for those particular student loans. They didn't transfer it to me in our marriage.

Bobbi Rebell:
And he was able to get out of the whole life insurance policy? He wasn't locked in?

Erin Lowry:
He wasn't locked in. He was able to switch.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, it's the same company actually. He didn't switch companies, but he did completely switch policies.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? It sounds like they really need to understand fiduciary versus a salesperson.

Erin Lowry:
The big thing is understanding fiduciary versus suitability. And for me, I also use this story in my book to talk about sniffing out a scam. I don't want to say he was necessarily scammed in the way that we traditionally think, especially when we think about investing, but he was definitely sold a product that wasn't the best fit for him. And I want you to consider that anytime you're working with any sort of professional, because they don't necessarily have your ultimate best interest in mind, they might also have their bank account in mind and you need to know how that person is getting paid.

Erin Lowry:
For instance, if you're a financial adviser gets paid on commission, you need to understand how that's going to be impacting your overall portfolio. What products are they putting in there that they get a kickback for? Now, I'm not saying everybody that takes commission is working in any sort of nefarious ways, but I am saying you need to make sure you understand exactly what that means for you and your investments. And again, fiduciary means they are required to act in the best interest of you. Suitability means they just can't do anything that's harmful to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your everyday money tip. It's something you really do and it has made a big difference in your life.

Erin Lowry:
Yes, and this is going to sound so silly to people, but I like to save $5 bills, and I know a lot of people don't use cash anymore. I still do like to use cash and every single time I get a $5 bill back when I pay for something in cash, I put it inside in a little jar and just let that money accumulate. And then eventually I put it all in my bank account. And in 2018, I saved over a thousand dollars to put towards my honeymoon fund account just with this tiny little trick.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. So let's just talk briefly about your latest book, number two, out of your three book series, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing. Tell us more about what sets this apart and the kind of advice that people could expect from the book?

Erin Lowry:
This is a true beginners guide to investing and that's the way I like to position it. Also, I'm not an investing expert. What I like to consider myself in this book is a translator. So I went out and interviewed a bunch of very, very smart, very experienced people and was able to distill this into a more digestible package. But the reason I wrote the book is because, listen, there are great investing books out there, but a lot of them do kind of operate under the assumption that you have some base level knowledge when it comes to investing. And frankly, most of us don't when we're just getting started.

Erin Lowry:
So I wanted to write a book that bridged the gap. It assumes that you have no background in investing, no base level knowledge and if you do, great, there's still content for you, but you don't need to know what asset allocation or index funds are or time horizon means or anything like that in order to pick up my book. It also really talks a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to kind of get control over that because a lot of us do fear and are intimidated by the market.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love the fact that you actually have a ton of just plain definitions in the book.

Erin Lowry:
Yes. There's a whole chapter about having this sort of baseline understanding of terminology and I even kind of apologize and the beginning of, "Hey, I know this is about to get real technical bear with me," but it's important that you understand the language because these are the terms you're going to hear when you're out there as an investor and you want to make sure you know what people are talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And never be afraid to ask a question that you "think is dumb," because there've been times I've asked questions that I'm embarrassed to ask and you know what? The person I'm asking doesn't actually know the answer. They're kind of faking their way through it, so don't fake it and pretend you understand something when you don't. It's okay. Ask the questions or look it up in Erin's book. There you go.

Erin Lowry:
That was actually one of my favorite parts of writing this book is learning terms and like, "Oh, that's what a basis [inaudible 00:12:22] is." It really wasn't helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people gloss over those things and don't actually know what they mean. You would be surprised. Just say. Great. Give us all your socials and where people can find out more about the book and you.

Erin Lowry:
I am on Instagram @brokemillennialblog, on Twitter @BrokeMillennial, Facebook the same. You can find a lot of information about me on my website, brokemillennial.com, and both my first and second books are available wherever books are sold. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Powell's, Indie books, hopefully your local bookstore and I always like to make a plug for your local library and if it's not there, please request it and get it on the shelf.

Bobbi Rebell:
And make sure everyone follow her on Instagram. She does great AMA, so that's one of my favorite parts of all of your social. So thank you Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, my friends. Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. There's a lot of financial jargon out there. Erin talks about it a lot. If you are making a financial decision, make sure you take the time to look up the words you don't understand. I get it. It can be embarrassing to ask someone something you think you should know, but by the way, a lot of times those people are nodding along pretending they fully get it and they may not or they may think they get it and they don't really know the questions to ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
As was the case with Erin's husband where he didn't know to ask exactly what kind of life insurance because he didn't know and he certainly wasn't educated by the salesperson what to ask and what the nuance differences are between different kinds of life insurance. So Erin has a lot of definitions in her book, but you can also check out websites for example, I like a website called Investopedia. It breaks down exactly what things really mean. Takes away the jargon.

Bobbi Rebell:
As I often say, the IRS website. Yes, the irs.gov website is also great at clarifying how certain things work. You forget about this, but a lot of the savings vehicles and retirement plans that we have are named after their tax code, like the 401k or the 529. Those numbers, that's the meaning of the numbers. They're actually part of the tax code. I know it's kind of crazy, but that's our system.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. I've been talking a lot recently about what I call, the family ecosystem. You're not just responsible for yourself if you're going to be a financial grownup. Even if you're single, you likely have financial ties to members of your family you may not even realize. For example, you may be with somebody who's your partner. They may have ties that both of you aren't fully aware of in terms of top of mind. If you really think about it, you are and that's what I'm asking you to do, but it may not be the first thing you think of.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think of yourself as just single. It could be something like in the case of Erin's new husband, co-signing on debt of some sorts, student debt in that case. Maybe it's a car loan or even a mortgage or maybe you and your siblings could find yourselves in the future caring for parents or another member of the older generation and you have financial responsibilities. You may need to pick up the pieces of something that they did not do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Maybe they didn't save enough for retirement. This could be something that you get involved with. Maybe you'll inherit something with your siblings. The point is make sure that you know and that you talk about it with anyone that's a stakeholder. Erin didn't cosign her husband's student debt, but she is definitely a stake holder. Thanks so much for spending this time with us. Please subscribe. We have an amazing spring lineup of guests you don't want to miss, and we are also doing some listener requested topics on the Financial Grownup guide series that we roll out on the weekends. So feel free to send in suggestions on the socials.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can DM me at Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell and our email is hello@financialgrownup.com. Big thanks to Broke Millennial, Erin Lowry, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As the Financial Grownup Podcast approaches 200 episodes, Bobbi explains why she is shutting down the podcast to focus on her other ventures including the Money in the Morning Podcast, her follow up book to “How to be a Financial Grownup” and what’s next for her growing media company. 

Episode Links

• The Washington Post article mentioned - How parents of adults can (gently) close the doors to the Bank of Mom and Dad

• Money in the Morning podcast

When Lee Huffman needed to visit his mom while she was receiving treatment for cancer, his car broke down and he had to get a new one immediately. But without steady income, he could have been out of luck, if it weren't for one key thing he had going for him. 

In Lee's money story you will learn:

• The perks, as well as the setbacks, from being self employed

• What he decided to do when his trusty truck became not so trusty anymore while he was on his way to see his mother who was having surgery for breast cancer

• Why he decided that a new car was better than just fixing his old truck

• The problem he ran into with banks when trying to get a loan

• How his great relationship with Bank of America and his great credit score helped him to get approved for a car loan

“Because I have taken really good care of my credit.. I was able to get approved for a loan with almost the lowest rate I was able to find anywhere"

In Lee’s money lesson you will learn:

• How your credit score can be a very valuable asset and can actually create opportunities for you

“Focus on your credit score.  It can be a wonderful asset that can open a lot of doors of opportunity for you”

In Lee's everyday money tip you will learn:

• The importance of having local currency when traveling. If you don't have the local currency, you can stop by an ATM. Some banks don't charge the fee to use another bank's ATM or simply reimburse you for it later

"Before you start earning miles in any of the different airline programs make sure that those miles are going to get you to the place you want to go to"

In My Take you will learn:

• How you can avoid paying for water in the airport by bringing a metal water bottle with you when you travel in airports- but remember to keep them empty

• Lee talked about how he loves using credit cards to get miles and free stuff. All good. But don’t go too crazy with that. You do you. If you don't travel much, you may want to look into a credit card that offers different kinds of rewards

Episode Links:

Lee's podcast We Travel There

Lee's free email course "7 days to your dream vacation"

Check out Lee's websites -

www.BaldThoughts.com

www.WeTravelThere.com

Follow Lee at BaldThoughts!

• Instagram - @BaldThoughts

• LinkedIn - @LeeRHuffman

• Twitter - @BaldThoughts

• Facebook - @BaldThoughts

• Pinterest - @BaldThoughts

Follow Lee at We Travel There!

• Instagram - @WeTravelThere

• Twitter - @WeTravelThere

• Facebook - @WeTravelThere

When Lee Huffman needed to visit his mom while she was receiving treatment for cancer, his car broke down and he had to get a new one immediately. But without steady income, he could have been out of luck, if it weren't for one key thing he had going for him. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode Lee tells us how he was able to get approved for a car loan when he needed it and shares how we can save money while traveling. #TravelTips #TravelHacks

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lee Huffman:
I was about 90 minutes into the drive, and my check engine light started flashing and flashing and flashing at me. I had to turn around, and I was really upset that I wasn't gonna be able to be there for my mom.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. That was our guest, in a bit of a panic because his car was breaking down while he was on his way to visit his mom, who was battling cancer. He needed a new car immediately, but he had just started a business. And as you guys are probably already guessing, as I say this, he had no proof of income, because he didn't necessarily know what his income would be. He did not have a W-2 job. So, the loan to buy that car that he needed was not a sure thing. We're gonna get to how that story evolved in just a moment, but first a welcome to everyone. New listeners, thank you for checking us out. Please subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Make sure to do the custom settings. If you're using iTunes, set it to auto download, so you don't miss any episodes, as I said. And if you have a moment, I'd love to know how you found us. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, or on Twitter, @BobbiRebell. Our email is hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. He is Lee Huffman. You may know him from his blog and YouTube channel, Bald Thoughts, his podcast, We Travel There, which I love because it's all interviews with locals for places that we travel to, so you get the local perspective. All right. If you are self-employed, or you dream of being self-employed, or you know anyone who is self-employed, you have to listen to this man's story, and then the advice that comes from it. Plus, his everyday money tip that's gonna be at the end is going to save all of us a lot of wasted cash when we travel abroad. So, stick with us to the end. Here is Lee Huffman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Lee Huffman. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Lee Huffman:
It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am a huge fan of all of your many channels of information about travel. You are the man behind Bald Thoughts, "Travel More. Spend Less. Live Better," the podcast, We Travel There, and of course, you also have a budding YouTube channel, and probably a ton more stuff I don't even know about you yet. But I'm so happy you're here, Lee.

Lee Huffman:
Yeah. It's great to be here, and I'm looking forward to meeting all your listeners. I've listened to a lot of your episodes. It's really good information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you. You provide a lot of great information, and not to ... I do want to also mention, by the way, you do this now full-time. But by the way, you left a $200,000 a year job to do this, so this is something you are truly passionate about. Writing about not just travel, but also early retirement, credit cards, insurance, lots of personal finance topics. For your money story today, though, we're going to be talking about travel, and how that led to an important credit card related experience. Go for it, Lee.

Lee Huffman:
Sure. Like you mentioned, I left my corporate job. That has a lot of pluses and minuses, right? This was a situation where it was a little scary, and a little bit of a rough situation. So, my mom battled breast cancer, and she beat it the first time about a decade ago. And unfortunately, the breast cancer came back recently. One of the benefits of me quitting my job and moving from California to Nashville is that I'm a short drive away. Well, short is eight hours, but it's a lot closer than California.

Lee Huffman:
She was going in for surgery. I said, "You know what? Being now not having to sit in front of a desk, that can work from anywhere. I'm just gonna go and spend some time with her." So I said, "Okay. I'm gonna drive my truck." And like a true financial grownup, I've had this truck for almost a decade. I stopped paying payments on it several years ago, and pretty excited about that. However, my truck had other ideas. So, I was about 90 minutes into the drive, and my check engine light started flashing and flashing and flashing at me. I'm like, "Oh, no."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Oh, no.

Lee Huffman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's never good.

Lee Huffman:
Yeah. Check engine light on? Bad. Check engine light flashing? It's like, "Hey, stupid. Stop driving. Something really bad is going on right now." And so, I talked with my wife, and I had to turn around. And I was really upset that I wasn't gonna be able to be there for my mom, but I also didn't want to break down halfway in the middle of the mountains someplace.

Lee Huffman:
So, I came back. Went to the repair shop, and basically the guy told me that the repairs were gonna be worth more than what the actual truck was worth. I was like, "Okay, that's not good. It's time to get a new truck."

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, it should be noted ... So, now you have to buy a new car, but you are self-employed, and that makes things a lot more complicated.

Lee Huffman:
Absolutely. Because banks are really weird when they actually want proof of income, because they want you to be able to pay the loan back. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, that's not so weird, Lee. Let's be fair. That's not so weird.

Lee Huffman:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to know, if I lend someone money, that they can pay it back.

Lee Huffman:
Exactly, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
[inaudible 00:05:31].

Lee Huffman:
Yeah. So, I reached out to several different banks. Credit unions are usually some of the best to get car loans from, because they offer really good rates, and every one of them wanted at least two years' worth of tax returns, to be able to prove the income. But I had just left my job less than a year ago, and so my last two years of tax returns are not representative of what my situation is today. And so, I couldn't get approved.

Lee Huffman:
But luckily, because I've taken really good care of my credit, and I've really focused on keeping a high credit score for a lot of the travel stuff that I do, with the credit cards and miles and points, and the relationship that I've had with Bank of America over the last almost two decades, then I was actually able to get approved for a loan, with almost the lowest rate that I was able to find anywhere, and all based on keeping a good credit score. So luckily, long story short, I was able to get approved for the car loan, and able to get a new car almost in an instant, without any paperwork, any proof of income, based on having a 760-plus FICO score.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were able to visit your mom, right?

Lee Huffman:
Yeah. She's doing really well now, and recovering, and back to her old ornery self.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. All right. Let's just move on from there, Lee. So, what is your lesson for our listeners from that story?

Lee Huffman:
Really, the main thing is that your credit score is one of your most valuable assets, that you can easily mess up. You know, missing payments, maxing out your credit cards, those type of things. But as long as you focus on your credit score and do the right things with your credit, it can be a wonderful asset, that can open a lot of doors of opportunity for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way you phrase that, because it's so positive. A lot of people think about their credit score as something that they're almost playing defense with, that it can stop you from getting things. But you talk about the opportunity that it creates.

Lee Huffman:
Absolutely. I mean, like you said, I focus on a lot of travel. I travel the world with my wife and children, and it's mostly free, using all the miles and points that I earn from the credit cards, all based on my credit score.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip, because that also has to do with travel and being able to maximize your spending there, by not paying more than you have to when you change money. Or maybe not paying anything.

Lee Huffman:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your everyday money tip, Lee?

Lee Huffman:
Exactly. When you're traveling, it pays to make sure that you have some local currency when you're going to foreign countries. Unfortunately, when you go through the airport or some of these other places, they want to give you money at a really bad exchange rate. So, you want to use an ATM machine from a bank, so you can get the money at the best exchange rate possible. However, ATMs also like to charge you a lot of fees. Luckily, there are a lot of banks now that offer one, the debit card that does not charge you a fee for using other people's ATMs. And then, some banks also actually reimburse you the fees that are charged by other banks.

Lee Huffman:
So I've been using, for the last probably decade or so, Charles Schwab. I'm not affiliated with them or anything like that, but I kind of keep them in my back pocket. I don't use them for every day, but I kind of have money go into that account every month. That way when I travel, I have a little bit of a slush fund, that I can withdraw money from ATM, anywhere around the world, and not have to worry about fees, and always getting the best exchange rates.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which gives you more money, ultimately, to spend on your traveling the world, and fun in foreign countries with your family. So, that's an amazing tip, and great for all of us. Let's talk more about what is going on at Bald Thoughts and We Travel There. You also have a new project that is coming out, and it's Seven Days to Your Dream Vacation. I already planned my spring break, so I'm upset I didn't get to this before then. But I'll be able to use it for the next one. Tell us about that.

Lee Huffman:
Absolutely. So, Seven Days to Your Dream Vacation is a free email course that basically walks you through the process of finding a location, being able to pick out the hotels and airlines, and finding ways to reduce those costs using airline miles and hotel points, so that way you can travel for as free as possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be an example? Give us a little sneak peek.

Lee Huffman:
Sure. Kind of like the Stephen Covey book. You know, Begin With the End in Mind? I love Southwest Airlines. They're one of my favorite airlines in the U.S.. However, if you want to go to Europe, or you want to go to South America, Asia, they're not gonna get you there. So, one of the most important things. Before you start earning miles in any of the different airline programs, make sure that those miles are gonna get you to the places you want to go to.

Bobbi Rebell:
In other words, be thoughtful, think ahead, and then you'll be in a better position when you finally are ready to take that trip.

Lee Huffman:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where can people learn more about you and your blog and your podcast, and everything you're up to, Lee.

Lee Huffman:
Sure, sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many things.

Lee Huffman:
Exactly. Bald Thoughts is all about airline miles, hotel points, trip reports, the latest in credit cards. So if you want to learn about miles and points, that's the place to go, there. Then, the podcast is called We Travel There, and it's all about having local interviews with people from around the world, to find out the best things to do in their city. Basically, I've always traveled, and whenever I do, I meet people. And I always [inaudible 00:10:44] their ear a little bit, and say, "Hey. What are some of the things that locals like to do here?" Essentially, the podcast allows you to be in on that conversation, so that way you can plan your next trip, or be inspired to go to some place that you may never have thought of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are certainly very inspiring. I hope we all get to travel to our dream destinations. Thank you, Lee.

Lee Huffman:
Thank you very much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's do this. Financial Grownup tip number one. Lee talked about travel. I want to add one more tip from him, that came up after we finished recording our interview. It's something that a lot of us kind of know to do, but we all could use a reminder, myself included, and that is to think about water. Think about water when you're traveling, because when you go through security, they're gonna take the water bottles that you may bring with you. Hopefully you'll remember to dispose of them before you go through security, but they're not coming through. So bring those metal ones or glass bottles that you can fill with water once you get past security, so you can avoid buying those super expensive water bottles once you're past security, because you know that's not a good place to be spending your money. Nobody wants to pay five dollars, sometimes even more, for water, especially when there's water fountains around. But especially if you have kids, or you just want to be able to carry the water with you, and not have to go back and forth to the fountain, bring those water bottles and fill them up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. This is a bit controversial. Lee talked about how he loves using credit cards to get miles and free stuff. That's all good, but it's really important not to go crazy with that. It makes a lot of headlines. People talk a big game about how much free stuff they're getting. But the truth is, miles reward cards aren't the best for everyone. The best one for you may be a cash back card, or some other kind of reward card tied to your interests and need. Or maybe you have to carry a balance. This is a no judgment zone. So, maybe you just need to focus on the one that's gonna have the lowest interest rate. Don't get caught up in the travel rewards hype. Do what's right for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we head out, I want to invite you guys to check out my new podcast with my friend Joe Saul-Sehy. You may know him from the Stacking Benjamins Podcast. Our podcast is called Money in the Morning. We share news headlines, we break down why they matter, and how you can use the lessons in your own life. And here's the best part of the podcast, and why we're having so much fun, and why I want you guys to join us. That is because we tape Money in the Morning live, in front of a Facebook Live audience. So, go to Facebook.com/istackbenjamins. That is the Stacking Benjamins Facebook page. Facebook.com/istackbenjamins. Set up an alert for live tapings. Join us. Insider secret, by the way, guys ... We do a lot of giveaways. So, I hope to see you guys there. Again, come with your comments, get ready to participate, and maybe your comment will get read on the air, and you'll be part of our podcast at Money in the Morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Bald Thoughts' Lee Huffman, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. 

In Nathan's money story you will learn:

• Why it's so important to let children make decisions

• Why he feels like his parents helped to make him an entrepreneur

• Why he feels like his success is due to his parents never telling him no (and when they did instead)

• What he learned at the age of 5 by being given the option between Pizza Hut for dinner or a sleep over with friends

In Nathan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why he feels like the idea of only focusing on one thing isn't practical

In Nathan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How you can use an app to book a hotel room for just a few hours during a day trip rather than spending money for an entire night

In My Take you will learn:

• Take 5 minutes each day this week and create a system for something that happens regularly

• By letting your children make choices- you empower them

Episode Links:

• Nathan's book How to be a Capitalist Without Any Capital

• Nathan's podcast The Top Entrepreneurs in Money, Marketing, Business and Life

• Recharge app for booking a stay for just a few hours

Check out Nathan's website -

www.NathanLatka.com

Follow Nathan!

• Instagram - @NathanLatka

• Twitter - @NathanLatka

• Facebook - @NathanWLatka

• LinkedIn - @NathanLatka

Millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author Nathan Latka shares how his love of pizza hut, his friends and willingness to put his money and savings where his mouth is got him what he wanted as a 5 year old child. Latka also previews his new book "How to Be A Capitalist Without Any Capital” and the strategies and systems that have grown his many ventures. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you will learn a very important tip on how you can help to raise a successful child. #RaisingChildren #SuccessTips #Author

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Nathan Latka:
You have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitors have already paid to learn, right, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it. Then you add your own twist at the end, and that's when people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, specially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Controversial advice from our guest millennial entrepreneur, podcaster, and author, Nathan Latka. He is everywhere, so if you haven't heard of him yet, that's probably gonna change pretty fast. He is high energy and will get you motivated to make more money after listening to him. This guy is all about systems and strategies. Welcome all, so glad to have you here. As our returning listeners know, we talk to high achievers about key money related events in their life that played a role in growing up to be financial grownups. Lessons learned and simple everyday money tips you can use right away to make your life richer, all in around 15 minutes. Big treat today. Nathan Latka founded his first company at the ripe old age of 19 with just 119 dollars in the bank. He now considers himself retired, but I would question that given how much this now 29 year old has on his plate between his podcast, his new bestselling book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital, a TV show in development with CNBC that he's gonna tell us about, and oh, so much more, here is Nathan Latka.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Nathan Latka, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi, thank you for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited because I have in my hand an early copy, and it may be out by the time this happens, of your new book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. And let me tell you, I think you are the Tim Ferriss of your generation, that is a huge compliment because I'm a massive Tim Ferriss fan. So congratulations on the book.

Nathan Latka:
Well, we'll see what happens. The publisher, which is the biggest I think in the world, Random House, they go, "Nathan, we don't know if we like this book because it's not timeless. These strategies, you know, we can't sell a thousand of this book a decade from now." I'm going, "Yeah, it's urgent." The first person who purchases will have the biggest advantage because these things will not work five, 10 years from now. And this is true about life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very specific and a lot of the tools and methods that you talk about, and will even drop some names of some websites that I was not really aware of, are really awesome, some apps I should say. So for example, we were referencing the four hour work week, so it is very much of the moment, but I want to take a step back in time Nathan, to a story that you mentioned briefly in your book, but we are going to expand on, and it is your money story. So people know that I am a huge Cheesecake Factory fan, you were a fan of Pizza Hut. So we're gonna talk about Pizza Hut for your story. Go for it.

Nathan Latka:
I remember I was like five years old, we were in this blue mini van, my mom loved it, and we were driving home and I go, "Mom, dad, can we go to pizza tonight for dinner?" Which was like a treat for me, and I also had a sleep over coming up, and yeah, I think that weekend, where there was four or five playmates I had coming over, and both of these things obviously cost money. They're dinner or I had my friends over, my parents have to pay to feed all of them, and then take them home in the morning and clean up messes. So my mom basically wanted to say no to pizza hut or no to the sleepover, and so she gave me, instead of saying no to either, she just gave me a choice and said, "Nathan, you know you can either choose, we can either choose to do pizza tonight or do the sleepover, but we can't do both. Right, 'cause they both cost money." And I thought for a second in the backseat and then said back, "Mom, can I choose to get into my piggy bank and take us pizza out tonight?" And they laughed after that realizing what I was doing, and ultimately both decided to take us out to dinner and I still did the sleepover, but the lesson there is clear, which is, give your kids decisions, not answers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you as a child wanted to find a solution, which in this case, and maybe you would not say this as an adult, was to tap your savings. Maybe as an adult you would let's say, try to up your income.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, or all kinds of things, right? I mean, the trick is there, is you're not giving your children the answer, you're setting up a decision and you're teaching them to build that decision making muscle. This is very rare in today's world, in my opinion.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell we, what is the takeaway for our audience there looking back? What did you learn and how does it apply to your life now?

Nathan Latka:
Well look, I mean, today I'm very different than I was when I was five years old, right? I mean, I have many, many different things going on, and so one of the things I talk about is, and I live this out every day is, there's a lot of people, in college for example, you're forced to essentially pick a major, right, when you're a sophomore, or you want to be forced into one thing. And this doesn't make a lot of sense to me, 'cause think about a bridge your going over, right, in your city. If it had one point of failure when the winds hit 20 miles per hour, you don't want to be going over that bridge, but a lot of us build our lives around a single point of failure. So the idea that you should only focus on one thing, and there's a lot of bestselling business books that sell this concept.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think there's actually a book called, The ONE Thing.

Nathan Latka:
The ONE Thing and Essentialism, because it sells. It's a really good story, and by the way, I love those guys. I know them all, but it's not practical, and that's because you never want a single point of failure. You want to always be throwing spaghetti noodles up the wall, you don't know which are gonna stick, and then when you see which ones stick, you double down on those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip, because this is something more and more people are traveling, we're not always working in an office, whether we're moving around, whether we work from home or we're going to see clients or traveling with our clients, and there is downtime, which can be wasted time.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, so I travel a lot and like to be efficient, and I would usually, I'd always go to New York on day trips, and I used to have to buy a hotel room because when I landed at 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 AM in the morning, I had to go take a shower somewhere. I would leave the hotel room and only use it for four or five hours. It was a total waste of money for 300, 400 bucks. Now there's this app called Recharge which I use, where when you land in any city really, you can go on Recharge and book an amount of hours in a hotel room. So you go in, get some sleep, get a shower, do you makeup, do your hair, and get ready to go to that meeting.

Nathan Latka:
The old concept in this book is, the folks that are really wealthy in the world today, they climbed a certain ladder, and any time someone climbs a ladder to power or wealth, they then remove rungs from that ladder. They make it more complex so that no one else can climb it and challenge them. And so this group has sold us on four rules, and ultimately these are rules that you shouldn't believe that you must break, and we've talked about a few of them. The first, you don't want to focus on one thing, right? The second is, you should totally feel comfortable copying your competitors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which has been used. To give examples in your book of how this has been used so successfully by some of the biggest companies in the world.

Nathan Latka:
But Bobbi, I bet your audience listening right now when they hear this, they're thinking, "Ugh, I feel dirty. It feels unethical. It feels slimy to copy my neighbor." I bet you they feel that. This is the problem with this tactic. People do this all the time 'cause it's smart, but humans, your natural emotion when you hear the word copy, is it feels bad. But here's, I mean, Facebook rips off every Snapchat feature, right? Steve Jobs went into the Xerox research lab and pulled a bunch of research out of there and basically copied that and that's what made the Lisa. That's what made the Mac and the iPhone and things like this. So you have to copy aggressively, and once you copy what your competitor has already paid to learn, you're getting free money there. They've already paid to learn it, then you add your own twist at the end, and that's where people create a lot of success.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things that I love about this book Nathan is the detail. You made a decision to put a lot of your own personal data out there. Tell me about that approach to writing this book.

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, I mean, it's very risky, right? Because the stuff will get old after four or five years, so again, this book is urgent. Say, you know, in page six I have my income statement and my tax return. My actual corporate tax return from 2013, where I was in my dorm room at 21, and we did 939,378 dollars in sales, and I started hiring my team. I put my board deck on page 35, and then I get into more personal finance stuff, right? Where I talk about how I used my very small Instagram following to get a free Rolls-Royce with an email striped on page 118. Or I used, how I did my first real estate deal, it was a 280 thousand dollar deal, where I only had to put essentially five grand down, and it [inaudible 00:08:31] 16 hundred dollars a month. That PNL is on page 149. So there's all kinds of examples here and there's not a big theme. They don't really connect. They're really individual stories that your audience can pick up, flip through and learn to drive their own side hustle and create some more financial independence.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what scares you? You have such wonderful confidence. You are how old now?

Nathan Latka:
29, just turned 29.

Bobbi Rebell:
The ripe old age of 29. What have you not done that you are hesitant about?

Nathan Latka:
Nothing really scares my in business, but I'll tell you what scares me in life. I don't know if anyone in your audience has ever gotten mono, but it basically knocks you out. You have to sleep.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's your health.

Nathan Latka:
Well, no, no, no. Health is one thing, but let me be more specific. When you're laying in bed for seven days straight, and your brain is the brain of an entrepreneur, you actually start to go a little insane because your brain goes a million miles an hour in that quiet time, but your body can't keep up with it. So my biggest fear is I get to some point in life where my mind is still going a million miles an hour, but my body can't keep up and execute.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll leave it there, but I want to hear from you. Where can people find out more about all of your ventures?

Nathan Latka:
Yeah, well we're excited. We just signed a TV deal with CNBC, which we didn't talk about. We're very excited about that. It is called Million Dollar Road Trip. So it will be like Shark Tank on the street, basically me walking up to random companies on the street, and in under 20 minutes or less flipping up my checkbook and buying the whole business or investing on the spot.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of like a cross between The Profit and Shark Tank, and by the way, we've had both Barbara Corcoran and Kevin O'Leary on this podcast.

Nathan Latka:
Both great, love them both. So anyways, we're very excited. Again, this book guys, it'll get old. You can't wait. It's one of those things, like the first person who reads it has the biggest advantage. So you want to grab it now. You go to nathanlatka.com/book to get it, and the best way to stay in touch with me, I am on Twitter every day, I'm @NathanLatka. That's L-A-T-K-A.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Nathan. This has been amazing.

Nathan Latka:
Bobbi thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, Nathan's energy is contagious. Here we go. Financial grown up tip number one. Nathan is all about systems because he is at a point where things would literally fall apart almost instantly if he didn't have those systems in place, but for most of us, myself included, we can muddle by. So they're kind of haphazard because we don't have to have, but we would be so much better off if we had the right systems. And we know we'd be better off with them in place. Even something as simple as automatic reordering of coffee that we drink at home, that we make at home that we ran out of, but we don't have a system in place to reorder it, and then you know what happens. We go out to get the expensive coffee at the coffee shop, but we're too busy. So take five minutes each day this week, okay? Everyone do this. Take five minutes each day this week and create system for something small but that happens regularly, like the coffee. So if you run out of coffee all the time or you run out of whatever it is that you use on a regular basis, or it could be bill paying, bills that come every month, automate that. DM me on the socials and let me know what you did. I need ideas myself. On Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell. You can also email at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love what Nathan learned from his parents that he talked about in his money story, because by not telling children what is happening when it comes to a money decision, but letting them make a choice, you empower them. This can apply to so many other situations in our personal lives and in our careers. Empower others to make decisions by giving them the specific options and the outcome that would happen based on the choice they make, and let them run with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, Nathan's book is called How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital: The Four Rules You Must Break to Get Rich. It is an intense book everyone, but it is good. It is very specific. He literally gives you screen grabs of data that is very personal to him. I was a little shocked but he put it out there, and good for him, and good for us 'cause we learn from it. Go check it out along with his podcast The Top, and of course, big thanks to Nathan Latka for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Steward 00:12:57] and is a BRK Media production.

Elisa Camahort Page and her BlogHer co-founders went two years without paying themselves a salary. She had the financial foundation to stick with the venture for that long thanks to conservative money habits she established well before deciding to be an entrepreneur. 

In Elisa's money story you will learn:

• How seeing her friends stuck in their jobs because of their mortgages helped Elisa to make a better decision on where to live

• The reason she decided to quit her job

• How budgeting and saving her money helped to put her into a position to pursue her dreams

• How she was able to not take a salary for herself for two years after starting her business

• The importance of really thinking about what she wanted to spend her money on

• Why she felt like it was important to spend money on experiences rather than things
  

In Elisa’s money lesson you will learn:

• Money doesn't buy happiness but it does buy you freedom

In Elisa's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she feels like having just one mentor isn't enough

• The importance that one of her mentors had on her by letting her sit in on calls and meetings that her position didn't require her to be there for

In My Take you will learn:

• Ask your boss if you can be in the room of meetings you may not be officially invited to join

• Prepare for the long term even if you don’t have any big picture goals

Check out Elisa's website -

www.elisacp.com

Follow Elisa!

• Instagram @ElisaCP

• LinkedIn - @ElisaCamahortPage

• Twitter - @ElisaC

• Facebook - @ElisaC

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Elisa Camahort:
We didn't take a salary for two years, so I had put myself in a position to really pursue my dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Women's Blogging Network BlogHer co-founder, Elisa Camahort Page, talking about the early days of that company. How many of us could go two full years without any cash coming in? Wow. Hello, Financial Grownup friends. Welcome to our newest listeners, and thank you for checking out the podcast. We keep shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but feel free to stack a few episodes together if you have a little more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to our inspiring guest. Elisa Camahort Page made a career switch to be part of the Silicon Valley boom, and was rising through the ranks. She saw a lot of big spenders there, but as you will hear, she escaped many of the pitfalls of her dot com peers. And it is only because of that, because of living below her means, that she was able to create her own company after the bust, global women's media empire BlogHer, which won countless accolades, including being named among the most powerful women entrepreneurs by Fortune, the most powerful people in new media by Forbes, and the most influential women in technology by Fast Company. By the way, she also won the Vanguard Award by Mom 2.0 summit, Iris Award. And for anyone that's gonna be down in Austin for Mom 2.0 this year in April, please come say hello. I will be down there as a speaker, and I'm very much looking forward to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Elisa. She later sold the company to SheKnows Media, and recently embarked on a career as a consultant, speaker, and author. Her book is Roadmap for Revolutionaries. Here is Elisa Camahort Page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Elisa Camahort Page. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people know you as the founder of BlogHer, which set all kinds of high standards for women's organizations and blogging. You were named as a social media legend, by the way, by the C Suite Network, top women in media by Folio. I could go on and on. And also, by the way, BlogHer, you guys were named most powerful women entrepreneurs by Fortune. You sold that to SheKnows Media, and stayed with the company for a little bit, but now you are a consultant and a speaker. You are also the author of the book Roadmap for Revolutionaries. So, welcome.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you started your journey back in the late '90s in Silicon Valley. At that time, you made a critical decision that we're gonna talk about as your money story. Then we're gonna come back, by the way, and talk more about you. But I want to hear your money story, because it has to do with a conservative financial move that you made, at a time when the dot com boom was really becoming a lifestyle, and something that was really consuming everyone around you, but you took a different tactic. Tell us your money story, Elisa.

Elisa Camahort:
Well, as I started going up the ladder and making more and more money, I did not spend like I was going up the ladder and making more and more money. I decided to really devote myself to my career at that point, because I had this goal. I wanted to buy a house or a condo. I just really focused on that. And sure enough I was able, by myself, to buy a condo. And what happened is, when the boom ended, and we started with the bust, and it started spiraling down ... And it was kind of a long, slow, uncomfortable spiral down ... I had a lot of friends who were really married to their mortgage, and they were really stuck. Because when times are really great, and banks were willing to give you big loans, I stayed really conservative, and I got a place that was appropriate for me, someone living alone, and ultimately with a partner. I didn't go hog wild.

Elisa Camahort:
A lot of my friends, when the bust happened, they were married to jobs that they felt miserable in, because they had this big mortgage. Whereas I, I had sort of the opposite experience. Which is in 2003, the nadir of the bust, and my company was going through like its eighth layoff in two years, and I thought, "It's gotta be me. Like, I have got to be laid off at this point. There is hardly anyone left."

Elisa Camahort:
Friday came and went, and layoffs happened, and I didn't get laid off. I sat there, and I spent all weekend being depressed, thinking, "Oh my God. I have to go back. It's gonna be such a graveyard. It's gonna be so much more work, and no more people to do it. I have to go back. That's so sad." And then I had this little voice in my head that said, "Why? Why do you have to go back?" Because I had been smart. I had bought my condo, and then I had gone right back into conserving and hoarding my money. I had about two years' worth of take home pay in the bank at that point, and so I walked in on Monday and said, "How do I get on the list?"

Elisa Camahort:
The other thing that allowed me to do, besides having my walk away money, was a year later, when I met my co-founders of BlogHer, and we decided to go after that, we didn't take a salary for two years. So, I had put myself in a position to really pursue my dreams. One dream was the condo. One dream was the company. But I really believe that you should think about your spending and saving now, like you have that big idea you want to pursue, even if you don't know what it is. Just think about when it hits you, being ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really about keeping your overhead low, so you have that financial flexibility.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah. Absolutely. I had a lot of options, because I maybe wasn't as ... I wasn't as high spending, and wasn't going out and doing some of the things that looked kind of fun, and they would have been fun. I just found other ways, and really focused on wanting to have that cushion for myself, because who knows what I would want to do next?

Bobbi Rebell:
So, give me an example. Do you remember any times when other people were doing things that you really couldn't do because you wanted to keep that overhead low, and have this giant cushion? I mean, two years, when you're so young, is a lot of financial runway there.

Elisa Camahort:
I think a lot of it was about, what do I spend my money on? And I presaged the millennials, because I tended to spend my money on getting together with friends, experiences. You know, I would go out to eat more than I would buy things. I wasn't necessarily out there getting that upgraded bag, or lots of clothes. And certainly I still shop. I have always liked shopping. Oh, Ann Taylor Loft. That's the perfect store for me, you know? That's just not where my interests lied, to want to spend a lot of money.

Elisa Camahort:
The other thing is, I do travel more now than I used to. I think it's good. Travel is obviously super expanding for your mind and your heart and your soul, and so I do think travel is important. That has been sort of a slow increase, in investing in those experiences. But until that point, most of it was experiences that were pretty moderately priced and pretty close to home, and pretty involving friends, as well. Which I think was another reason that made me not miss the stuff I wasn't acquiring, because what I was doing was sort of enriching my circle and my network and my friendships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were busy. So, what is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Elisa Camahort:
Well, the takeaway is that money doesn't buy happiness, up to a certain point. I mean, yes. Once you have your basic needs met, you're happier. But, money doesn't buy happiness. What it buys you is freedom, and it buys you the freedom to do a lot more than you might be thinking about. And I don't know that when I was saving money to buy a house, I was thinking about saving money to start a company. Luckily, that came in handy for me. So, money doesn't buy you happiness, but it does buy you freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's move to your everyday money tip, which has to do with the value of mentoring, and how that translates into financial success in the long run. I mean, it really goes to what you were saying before. You talk about playing the long game, even if you don't know what the long game is yet. That's kind of what you were just getting at, is have the money even before you figure out what you need it for. Because you didn't envision BlogHer when you were buying a house that was a lot less than what you could afford.

Elisa Camahort:
I learned, when I first got into tech, that first of all, I had multiple mentors. I didn't loo for one person to be the be-all end-all mentor. I had one guy who mentored me around technology issues. I had one guy who mentored me around business issues. And the one key thing he did for me, that really was a lesson, was that he let me sit in on calls and meetings that my position didn't require me to be there. He just sort of identified me as his protégé, and let me sit in. And all I did in most of those meetings and calls was listen, but I heard how he established relationships. I heard how he negotiated. I heard how those two things worked together, to get him what he wanted.

Elisa Camahort:
You know, a lot of people think about ... When they think about negotiation, they think about what they're gonna say, how they're gonna make their case, and it's very kind of me-focused. I really prefer to do a lot more listening, because it's only when you understand what core thing the person you're negotiating with, the core thing they really want, that's the way that you can find your way to having a mutually beneficial outcome to the negotiation. And I think that works on both sides of the hiring process, both sides of the negotiating and advancement process, and both sides of negotiating partnerships, and even M&A deals. So, I tend to be ... I'm kind of talkative in real life, like outside of a negotiation. But I listen more than I talk, so that I can figure out how to get to that core thing my other person across the table really wants. And then, giving me what I want is so much easier.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The information helps you get to the point where you know what they need to hear to make it happen, whatever your goal is.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah. If you're more busy talking than listening in any negotiation, you're actually not gonna come out, I don't think, with the better end of the deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said, Elisa. All right. Let's talk about you, because you have now left your baby, BlogHer, which you had sold, and you are making a big impact in the world with your speaking and your book. Tell us more about what's going on with you.

Elisa Camahort:
Yeah, absolutely. I stayed after the acquisition for almost three years, but then it really was time to go. Part of it was because I wanted to work on some other projects, including my book, Roadmap for Revolutionaries, which is all about how we can all be better every day activists, and how we can be more effective, because we're all busy. I used to hate the term work-life balance, because I felt like no one ever asked men about it. But now I like the term work-life-activism balance, because I like to think about how can you integrate, into an already really busy life, how you want to make a difference in the world. The things you want to activate around, the things you're most passionate about. Finding a space for that in your life, I think makes us so much happier, because i think happiness is really tied to how well we live to our own value system, and how much we're able to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. All right. Where can everyone find out more about you, and where they can see you? Because you're very busy on the speaker circuit.

Elisa Camahort:
Yes. Well, my website is ElisaCP.com, and there is a tab there for all my speaking appearances. There's a tab there about my book, and about articles I write and the writing I'm doing. And then, I'm on the interwebs. Twitter @ElisaC, and Instagram ElisaCP, and most of my posts on Facebook are public. Just search my name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Elisa Camahort:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff. Here we go. Financial grownup tip number one: Ask your boss if you can be in the room of meetings you may not officially be invited to join. It's okay to just say, "I want to learn from you. I want to observe." Think of it like auditing a class in school. Even if you don't have a specific business purpose there, ask if you can just be in the room, as I said. And then, just do that. Listen. Pay attention. Be a little invisible. I know there's a lot of talk about sitting at the table, speaking up, participating, and that's all good when you have a role at the meeting. But if you're there to observe, consider that a privilege, and make sure it doesn't take away from the work that you need to get done otherwise.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: Prepare for the long term, even if you don't have any big picture goals yet. Elisa wasn't saving to start a business. She did not see that in her future. But when opportunity presented itself, she had the money to go two years without income to make it happen, and it paid off.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, my friends, what is the best lesson you have learned from a mentor? I would love to hear from you. DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can email at hello@FinancialGrownup.com. And if you find value in this show, please take the time to think of a friend that might also enjoy it, and help us grow by encouraging them to check it out and subscribe. Big thanks to Elisa Camahort Page for her words of wisdom, a great story, and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration.

In Kelsey's money story you will learn:

• How this young mom started a company from a product she made to keep her son clean during mealtime

• How she started a business with a $99 dollar sewing machine and $20 in fabric

• How her first sale on Etsy launched her into full business mode and the things she had to learn along the way

• The importance asking questions even when you're nervous to do so

In Kelsey's money lesson you will learn:

• If you have an idea, just go for it

• If you aren't embarrassed by the first version of your product you've started too late

In Kelsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Realizing that at some point that you can't do it all

• The importance of finding and identifying people that are great with aspects of your business that you aren't so good at

In My Take you will learn:

• Why it's important to reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from

• Why you'll want to do some test marketing before going all in on your side hustle
  
  

Check out Kelsey's website -

BapronBaby.com

Follow Kelsey!

• Instagram - @BapronBaby

• Facebook - @BapronBaby

• Pinterest - @BapronBaby

Millennial mompreneur Kelsey Larsen shares her story of taking her home-made bibs from Etsy to mass retail by reaching out to entrepreneurs she admired but did not know, for advice, and in one case, collaboration. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn how you can take a side hustle and turn it into a successful business. #Entrepreneur #SideHustle

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Kelsey Larsen:
I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product. I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people that I had no business talking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was entrepreneur, Kelsey Larsen of BapronBaby talking about jumping in big when she decided her hobby, making unique bibs that wrap around the baby, was going to be a lot more than a stay-at-home mom hobby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup friends and special welcome to our newest listeners. If you have a moment, I want to hear how you discovered the show and also any feedback or suggestions. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or email hello@financialgrownup.com. As I said, suggestions, feedback, anything that can help me improve the show and grow the show, truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to BapronBaby's Kelsey Larsen. The biggest of her story is really relatable but where she went and where she's going is pretty extraordinary and something that we can all learn from. There's so many decisions that she's made so far that really changed the course of where the company is going and that's affected her life and her business. Make sure you stay for our everyday money tip by the way. It is about a vision board, but it's not really the kind of vision board that you're used to. It's got a big twist that I think you guys are going to really get a lot from. Here is BapronBaby founder, Kelsey Larsen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kelsey Larson. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kelsey Larsen:
Thanks, Bobbi. It's so good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your business. You are the founder and the owner. We practiced saying the name because I kept messing it up. It's BapronBaby.

Kelsey Larsen:
BapronBaby. Yeah, it's got- [crosstalk 00:02:32]

Bobbi Rebell:
Which I do want to point out is self-funded and debt-free and you have really ... I mean, your main product are these, I wish they were around when my son was younger, these bibs that are basically for the babies that rip off the bibs and throw them to the side, which is pretty much, at least my kid, a lot of kids.

Kelsey Larsen:
Exactly. The company, I started because my son wouldn't wear bibs and I was getting so frustrated with how many of his outfits he was ruining.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Outfits, furniture, walls. So much can be ruined.

Kelsey Larsen:
All of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All of the things. And I want to talk to you about how this become "A real company," a real brand because you're now in everywhere from Buy Buy Baby, you're on Amazon, just everywhere that you would ... I think over a hundred boutiques in this country. If this started as a hobby though, how did you know this could be a brand? Tell us your money story.

Kelsey Larsen:
You know, it sort of started out a necessity. I was a young mom. I had quite my job in HR to stay home with my little boy and I was living the dream, but my husband's a police officer and we started looking through things and we were like wow, we need some additional income. I had made this product for my son. It was just something that I had created for him because I needed something that would cover his entire body when he was eating meal time and he was comfortable in it. A friend mentioned Etsy. I had never heard of it. I had never sold anything on it, for sure. And I just sort of made a listing. I took some pictures of a bib that my son ... It was a Bapron that my son had actually worn. It was kind of dirty. Just took a picture of it and say hey, I'll sell this to you for ... I think I said like ... My first one, I think I sold for $17.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you just made it at home. You had just made this yourself?

Kelsey Larsen:
I started this business. Honestly, I started everything that I have with a $99 Brother sewing machine and 20 bucks in fabric. It was just something I made in my living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Okay. So, how did you go from ... Now, you start selling it on Etsy. What happens?

Kelsey Larsen:
My very first listing sold within 24 hours to someone I had never met, a stranger in Illinois. All of a sudden, I needed packaging. I needed to figure out how I was going to send this to her. I couldn't just send it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't thought about that?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. No, I didn't think I was ever going to sell anything. So, I had a printer and I went online and I used Microsoft Paint to make myself a logo and write a few words about the product and printed it out and it was very homemade.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, that went on for about a year, the Etsy selling. Then, you made a decision to really turn this into a brand. What happened?

Kelsey Larsen:
From Etsy, I gained a little bit of confidence. I started realizing that this is a product that mothers and families need. Toddlers are really happy in it. They're comfortable and they're working. They're waterproof. They have everything that we need. So, I made the decision to really go all in. I made the investment. I bought 20,000 boxes for a product ... I had not sold 20,000 Baprons at this point. I had not sold anywhere near 20,000 Baprons but I asked the awkward questions to people I had no business talking with. The owner of EzPz, Lindsey Laurain, she ... I reached out to her. One email ... I think I sent her an email on Christmas Eve.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cold? You didn't know her at all?

Kelsey Larsen:
Oh no. No contact prior to it but I knew that she had been on Shark Tank and it was something I had been thinking about. So, I kind of angled it as like "Hey, I'm someone coming up the same path you did and I wanted some insight." It was Christmas Eve and she responded to me at like 11:00 at night within 20 minutes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, wow.

Kelsey Larsen:
She was so quick to answer questions and so quick to give me her tips because she kind of did start the same way. Just a ... Like a mom who had a product that she needed to get out in the world. From there, I was able to awkwardly ask her the questions about "Hey, who makes packages? How do you find a company that does that?" Because when I Googled it, I couldn't really find much. So, a series of those awkward conversation where I asked someone who was successful already and- [crosstalk 00:06:36]

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were just cold calling these people? You were just emailing this people cold?

Kelsey Larsen:
Honestly, it was basically just sending a message on Instagram or finding an email address or just little things here and there. There were businesses that did not ever respond to me, but that's okay. I mean, not everybody has to give me the time of day. Just reaching out about very specific questions and little by little, I found contacts for manufacturing and then I found contacts for a team here in the United States who does the actual sewing of the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then how did you grow it? How did it become this bigger brand that's now in so many retailers?

Kelsey Larsen:
Instagram has been a wonderful wonderful tool and being able to connect with other mothers has been great. Word of mouth advertising is the most successful form of marketing and I never could have grown my business without customers taking my photos. I don't have a photo studio but we're still growing to Buy Buy Baby and we're in Nordstrom and we're on Amazon in these places that I never could have done on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait. What happens is people take pictures of their own babies ... And do you prompt them to do that? Do you ask them to do that or did this just start happening?

Kelsey Larsen:
No. At first, I was just on Instagram trying to [huck 00:07:50] my product to the 12 followers that I had or something. That first customer that I told you about on Etsy, she had bought the Bapron specifically for her little girl's 11-month photo shoot. So, she just sent me pictures just saying like "Hey, look how cute your product is on my baby." I asked her if I could use that for my marketing and she absolutely goes "Yeah, that would be great." And from there, I started to find that people are pretty excited to have their photos out and so I would just reach out individuals who had taken their pictures in the past, say "Hey, if I send you a few products, can you take pictures for me?" Absolutely, they would and it's been a very slow organic growth and brand repping has been something that I've been really grateful for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's really been organic authentic growth through social media.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yes. Along with that though, there was a lot of pacing myself, realizing that I can't do it all. I can't balance manufacturing on my own and marketing on my own and running my social media and taking care of my son and making sure that my family has the things that they need. I very quickly learned how important it was to recognize the things that I'm failing at. Maybe not failing, but that I just cannot fit in and get over the guilt of it, stop feeling bad that I can't do it all. There's a David Allen quote that says "You can do anything, but you can't do everything."

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from this story?

Kelsey Larsen:
If you think you're not ready but you have an idea, there is no harm in just doing it, just going for it. If you're not embarrassed by the first version of your product that you've launched, you've started to late. You'll find your success and you'll find what's working by putting it out in the marketplace, using your success as a test market and allowing yourself to organically grow.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's something that a lot of us ... It has to do with, frankly, guilt that we feel because we can't do everything we feel we should and we don't want to let people down.

Kelsey Larsen:
So, I have a vision board. I actually have a physical vision board kind of like we did in middle school.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Kelsey Larsen:
I put pictures of things that I'm really good at or I will identify things that I need someone else to do. For example, I do not take good photos. I just don't. And my product and my brand, I mean on Instagram, everything has to look great. So, I've been able to find and identify people who are great at it who I can pay to handle that. Even if it's not money that you've got, talking with other women, other mothers, other business owners, people are really willing to help out other individuals who are trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kelsey, before I let you go, tell us where people can find out more about you and the company.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, we do most of our sales on bapronbaby.com. We are on Amazon. We also ... As far as social media goes, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram. It's just BapronBaby.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're also in retailers, right?

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. So, local retailers throughout the country. We are in bundles with EzPz on Buy Buy Baby and in Nordstrom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Kelsey.

Kelsey Larsen:
Yeah. It was great to be here. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get to it. Financial Grownup tip number one. Reach out boldly to people that you admire and can learn from. Be smart about it. Don't stalk anyone, okay? But there is nothing wrong with a few polite emails to someone that you admire. Flattery is a great strategy. You would be surprised how well it works and how few people actually do it. Maybe you're going to get a mentor like Kelsey did and that, in here case, got her into a top retailer for her product. You would be amazed at the kinds of things people will do if you connect with them and you bond with them and make a relationship. People really do want to help other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. If you have a side hustle and are considering going all in as Kelsey did, you gotta do some test marketing first before you go all in as she did. Let's not forget. Kelsey was selling Etsy for a year before she even tried to go big. So while her growth plan, once she was doing it, was pretty bold, it did have a really strong foundation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, I want to thank you guys that have checked out my new podcast, Money in the Morning, with Joe Saul-Sehy. You may know him from his other podcast, Stacking Benjamins. So, Joe and I take a couple of news headlines and we share the lessons from it that we can all learn from and we come up with a big idea, a big takeaway that you can really take with you and hopefully make some positive changes in your financial life and your wellbeing and sometimes just overall happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's where it gets really interesting and really scary for me. We do it live. We do not cut anything out and we do it in front of you guys on camera on Facebook Live and if you want to be on the show, you can actually participate with your comments, which we integrate into the show. Go to Facebook.com/istackbenjamins. Set your alerts for when we go live. It's really easy to do that. We're working on a regular schedule but set the alerts for now. We would love to see you there. Check out the audio podcast as well, Money in the Morning. That is wherever you enjoy podcasts, just like this this.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Big thanks to Kelsey for sharing her story and for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Steph Paternot make a virtual fortune when the internet startup he co-founded in college, TheGlobe.com set records on its first trading day. But he and his company paid the price when his personal brand image as a brash young hard- partying entrepreneur pulled attention away from the business fundamentals. 

In Stephan's money story you will learn:

• Why it may not be a good idea to dance on tables during an interview

• Sometimes a lot of publicity isn't always the best publicity

• The documentary that CNN did on him that he and his company ended up paying the price for

In Stephan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why you want to be careful not to overdramatize your story

• The importance of staying focused on your business

In Stephan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why you don't want to fall into the FOMO mentally when it comes to investing

In My Take you will learn:

• The reason that the expression "Dance like no one is watching" doesn't really work in this day and age

• Why it's so important to get back up after you fail

Check out Stephan's website -

• Slated

Follow Stephan!

• Instagram @stephanpaternot

• LinkedIn @stephanpaternot

• Twitter @stephanpaternot

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Steph Paternot:
The cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs. We maybe shouldn't trust them. You know, maybe they're too crazy."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, how much thought do you give to your personal brand? To the images that you post on social media, or that are posted about you, with you in them, that you are tagged in? Do you think it impacts your career, or your future career, your business if you're an entrepreneur, your life? What would it have been like if social media weren't even around yet, and yet you were the one creating social media? It's very meta, but so is this whole interview, because I actually interviewed our guest who was the CEO of a company called theGlobe.com, the co-founder Steph Paternot back in the dotcom boom and bust.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I remember all the buzz that he got, it wasn't always focused on his company, a lot of it was on his personal life, on his clubbing, and even what he wore when he was out of the clubs. Kind of like many young adults who are in their 20s, that was a thing that people were doing at the time, he was quite normal, except most of those other 20 somethings, I'd say pretty much all of those other 20 somethings, were not worth close to $100 million on paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. If you are new, so glad you are joining us. We talk to high achievers here on the Financial Grownup podcast, they share unique money stories, and how we can learn from them, and also some every day money tips. Let's get to Steph Paternot, and the time that he and his co-founder, Todd Krizelman, were literally in college, and it should be noted that they did not drop out by the way, while they were building their company, theGlobe.com. Now they stayed in college specifically because it wasn't so clear that this internet was gonna be a thing, Steph actually said that. He really wasn't sure that the internet would be a thing that would actually be a thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, stay to the end to hear more about what Steph is up to now, he is disrupting a new industry, and I think you're gonna be very interested. Here is Steph Paternot. Hey Steph Paternot, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Steph Paternot:
Good to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading the re-released, new and improved, version of your book, A Very Public Offering: The Story of Theglobe.com and the First Internet Revolution, it was a total page turner, and I'm glad it got re-released, in large part because of a new series that features you, and someone playing the part of you which we'll talk about, it's a little bit weird, National Geographic series, Valley of the Boom, which I am truly enjoying. So welcome.

Steph Paternot:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, what was it like when you found out that they were casting someone to play you? Is that weird?

Steph Paternot:
Oh it was weird. I was shocked, because they had already engaged with me to come and participate in their documentary interview, and I'd already put in hours of being interviewed. In my mind it was nothing more than an expanded sort of news segment, or a documentary about the past. Since my current company, Slated, is in the film industry, I have a lot of film industry contacts, and the last thing I expected was to hear from film industry friends who were like, "Hey Steph, I just got this casting notice," I have friends who are casting directors and actors. Both parties were getting in touch with me saying, "Oh yeah so they're looking for a young, charismatic, actor to play a Steph Paternot, and another to play Mark Andreason, and a Todd Krizelman." And that's when I realized, "Oh my god I had just been pulled into something that I had no idea about."

Bobbi Rebell:
I gotta tell you Steph, your story doesn't need a whole lot of embellishment. And I'm excited about the money story that you're gonna share, because it has to do with personal branding, and the impact that can have on your financial success, or failure, of your company. And this all happened before social media was a thing. I mean you guys were inventing social media, and yet, this is kinda meta stuff I think. Tell us your money story.

Steph Paternot:
CNN decided to do a documentary on us, where they wanted to follow us, and see what the life was of a public company, dotcom CEO who's 24. And they followed Todd out to the Hamptons, where he had organized an impromptu badminton game, and a barbecue, and it was all very quaint. And then I decided, well I'll go show them what I've been doing when I need to let off steam," and that is to go clubbing, and why don't I kick it up a notch, and for once I'll wear these crazy vinyl black pants I bought, that'll make the story sexier.

Steph Paternot:
They also recorded me at my home, and one of the producers when I was off camera had asked me like, "Oh my gosh, so are you ready to live it up Steph now? I mean now that you're a billionaire are you ready to live it up?" And being that I'd grown up in England and I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, I just played along and said, "Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm ready to live a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle. That's the idea right?" And the filmed me going out to a nightclub and dancing on the tables. And I made sure really sort of to give them exactly the visual story I knew that would play well, and would be what their audience wants to believe about these dotcom days, and their juxtaposition of me dancing on the tables with this audio clip of me talking about a disgusting and frivolous lifestyle, they played that on CNN.

Steph Paternot:
Then they put that all summer long, it kept playing over and over as the hot dotcom-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my.

Steph Paternot:
I got so much [inaudible 00:00:00] from so many people, including my partner saying, "Why would you say that? Why would you do that." I was like, "Look this is all part of building the brand of the company, and living the life that they want to imagine we live." And by the way, not for nothing, but since this has been airing we've had tens of thousands more users sign up to our site. But the cost to me, my personal brand. The cost to the Globe brand was, "Oh I see, we've got a couple crazy dotcom CEOs, we maybe shouldn't trust them." People love to look for reasons when something isn't going well, of why it's not going well. And if you give the media, or if you give an audience one reason to dislike you, or to paint you with to say why everything's going badly, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Steph what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Steph Paternot:
Be careful of taking your story, or over selling, or over dramatizing, or doing something like what I did, where you gave them a cool visual and a ridiculous piece of audio. And you're giving them something they can hit you on the head with later.

Bobbi Rebell:
And do you feel it hurt your finances? Did it hurt your ability to go back for more money, and other things? Did it hurt the image? It seems like it helped to drive users to your website, but there's two sides of the business that were going on.

Steph Paternot:
Yeah, so the truth is, is that if your business fails it's not because you once wore plastic pants on a T.V. show. If your business fails, that's what people will say, because it's just easy to paint people with ... the simplest character assassination is what people like to use. But the truth is, is if your business is failing, it's usually because either your customers aren't satisfied by the product, or your advertisers are fleeing, or there's not enough revenue in the market to cover the costs of your business and your infrastructure. So the reasons theGlobe failed, ultimately, have very little to do with one particular interview segment. That just simply gave people ammunition to become haters, and troll us.

Steph Paternot:
There's so many other factors that can bring down your business. I think the takeaway her is, stay focused on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you wanted to talk about an acronym that I don't know even existed back in the day, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Steph Paternot:
FOMO, I think the term got coined in the late 90s, the fear of missing out, meant that you're operating often from a place of fear. If you're seeing everyone get rich quick because they're investing in dotcoms, well then you're gonna be apt to wanna quickly invest in anything with a dotcom as well, and you're gonna throw your money at a bunch of dotcom stuff. And for a while it's probably gonna grow, and you're gonna feel okay, until you realize that you had no clue what you were investing in. And when the market craps out, you go down with it. So you don't wanna invest ever because you're seeing everyone else getting rich from a particular area.

Steph Paternot:
By the way, that just happened in 2017 with the crypto space, right. Everyone was getting into ICOs, everyone was operating from a place of fear, if you don't invest you're gonna be poor, you gotta invest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your latest venture, Slated, tell us more about that and the other projects that you have on deck.

Steph Paternot:
I decided every movie getting made shouldn't be a miracle. There should be much more a method to the madness of filmmaking. And there's probably a much more intelligent way that people in this industry should be able to find great projects, assemble teams, find financing, and execute on their vision. And I saw this occurring in the tech space, with marketplaces like AngelList, which were making it way easier for anyone to set up a startup, find talent, find financing, discover what the growth metrics were that were important, and really grow a successful business.

Steph Paternot:
And so we took the model of AngelList, we reinvented it for the film industry, and now Slated is the leading on-line film finance marketplace. Half of all the movies that have been nominated for Academy awards the last few years are made by Slated producers, directors, writers. And we're just increasingly getting those successful filmmakers to put their next films on Slated, and getting those financed. So it took me a long time to put my CEO hat back on, and to find my passions that married film, technology, the reinvention of money on-line, and marry those all together, and really take a shot again at building a company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well congratulations on your success throughout the decades, because you really have had such an incredible run, and you're still just beginning with new projects. Where can people find out more?

Steph Paternot:
They can find me on Twitter, @stephanpaternot, or in Instagram @stephanpaternot, or on Facebook as Stephan Paternot.

Bobbi Rebell:
If only it was at theGlobe.com, oh what could have been Steph.

Steph Paternot:
What could've been, yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
But thank you so much, this was great.

Steph Paternot:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
What an amazing story. Financial Grownup tip number one, you know that expression, "Dance like no one is watching." So freeing, so empowering, so not realistic in this day and age, because you know everyone's watching. Unfortunately you have to live like someone is watching. Like it or not, the lines are blurring between our work and personal, and something you think you do only amongst friends could be public faster than you can click post. Act appropriate. If you have a finsta, that's a fake Instagram, I get it. Just remember, it's still out there, and you just never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you fail, get up. Steph was down, ooh $100 million, yes it was all on paper, but it sure felt real to him. He has done so much since those days, and because he kept strong relationships with the investors that believed in him, he was able to start new businesses, new investments, and have new success. Keep an eye on Steph, and his film finance business Slated, I expect to continue to see big things, lots of disruption happening in that industry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for all of your support, of not just Financial Grownup, but my new podcast, Money in the Morning with Joe Saul-Sehy of Stacking Benjamins fame. Truly appreciate if you tell your friends, and subscribe to both. And big thanks to Steph Paternot for helping us all get one step close to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When payroll is coming directly out of your bank account, every penny is precious. For entrepreneur Vic Drabicky that laser focus on costs, held back growth for January Digital, until he started to see the real cost of his fiscal frugality. 

In Vic's money story you will learn:

• Why Vic's conservative approach lead him to losing a big client

• What he did to turn things around

• Why it's so important to invest in the right leadership

In Vic’s money lesson you will learn:

• "Pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones"

• Why it's important, when looking at investments, to see which ones yield the highest return

In Vic's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What the "plan your work, work your plan" strategy is

In My Take you will learn:

• Doing one thing at a time can help to prevent from becoming overwhelmed

• Sometimes there is no perfect answer but be prepared to pivot when your views change

Check out Vic's website

January Digital

Follow Vic!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Vic Drabicky:
... a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy January, everyone. In this case, January Digital. The marketing agency was named in honor of the month that celebrates new beginnings for so many of us, including its founder, Vic Drabicky. Love his story, and you will too. Such inspiration for the new year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. New listeners, so glad you're here. Welcome back to our regulars. Episodes are short so you can stack them back to back for however much time you have to spend with us. And if you like what we're doing, tell a friend and DM us your feedback. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, and you can email us at hello@financialgrownup.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Get ready to say hello to our guest, Vic Drabicky. He and his company, January Digital, have worked with amazing brands. Think Fenty by Rihanna, Diane von Furstenberg, Oscar de la Renta, Vineyard Vines, and Kendra Scott. But January Digital's first year was rocky because they didn't invest enough in themselves. Big lessons here, and Vic's tip at the end about how companies and people can get attention on social media without hiring a big company like January Digital is pure gold.

Bobbi Rebell:
Listen to this man. Here is January Digital's Vic Drabicky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Vic Drabicky. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Vic Drabicky:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your digital marketing company, January Digital. By the way this is airing of course in January, so it's perfect timing. Tell us quickly about the name.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. So we are a full frontal digital agency. What that means is brands, primarily luxury brands and beauty brands, come to us and say, "Look I've got this money and I need to advertise my brand digitally. I don't know how to do it. Can you do it for me?" And that's everything from working with folks like Vogue and influencers all the way down to the tactical paid search and SEO and sort of the nerdy parts of digital marketing as well. So kind of top to bottom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where did the name January Digital come from? I mean, digital makes sense. But why January?

Vic Drabicky:
January 1st, if you're poor you're going to be rich. If you're fat your going to be thin. You can do absolutely anything in January. So that theme of renewal and rebirth was really important for me, and important for us in the way that we approach things for our company. It's different than the traditional way too, so that's how it kind of fits together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also a perfect transition to your money story that you brought, because it has to do with the birth of the company. Which of course you were ambitious, but you were also very conservative to the point where it came to bite you. Tell us your money story, Vic.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody that knows me knows I tend to be fiscally conservative. I mean, some would say cheap. I think very calculated. But what happened is we were very lucky early on and our company grew really fast. We went from something like nine people to 32 or 33 over the course of just a couple months. Which was phenomenal and great, but I still had the mindset of, okay, let me make sure that I conserve the profit that we have. Because I started the company with no venture capital, not even a loan. So it was right out of my bank account, which was relatively small.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were paying these people, I mean, you had to hit payroll every month on your bank account.

Vic Drabicky:
Exactly right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'd be pretty careful with that money then.

Vic Drabicky:
Well, right, and that's what you would think, right? This is my money. If I pay these people too much or hire too much, I don't get paid. And then, well, you know, that affects my family and my rent and my kids and all of those sorts of things. And so I took this really conservative approach, even when we were growing really quickly. And what that led me to was hiring folks who tended to be probably a little bit younger and a little bit cheaper. And I was probably a little bit arrogant, thinking, you know what, I've done enough of this; I can figure it out. I can teach them all how to do this and I can be a great leader.

Vic Drabicky:
But when ended up happening in the end is I underinvested in leadership. And because of that, the people that were on my staff all of a sudden, the 30-something people were looking towards me and some of them weren't that happy. And some of them weren't great hires. And that led to our work product being a little meh at times. And then clients felt that. And the year following that extensive growth is where we actually saw the hardest quarter ever, where we had clients and people leave at a rate that we've never seen ever in the history of our company.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you actually lost a big client. What was that discussion like when they pulled the plug?

Vic Drabicky:
Well, a lot of panic and, holy cow, what are we going to do? And by that time I was lucky enough to have added a couple people to my executive team around me who were accepting of my panic. But also did a great job of sitting down and going, okay, listen, we have been conservative for this long so we have a little bit to fall back on. And I have a great board member from the financial field who helped make sure we secured rainy day funding and things like that just in case something happened.

Vic Drabicky:
So by that point we were okay and we could get through. I got a whole lot more gray hairs and a whole lot less sleep as we navigated through that. But with the help of those guys, we were able to get through it. We were able to stop and say, okay, clearly identify what the problem was: not enough leadership, not enough skill. Let's put together a plan and put together a calculated risk on where we're going to invest against those. And we know that if we're right, that this sort of downturn ... we're only going to really feel the hurt from this for the next quarter or quarter and a half. So if we have this right, then this is a short-term thing when you compare it to the life of a company.

Vic Drabicky:
So for us, we were able to make those decisions. We were able to hold on and stick together. And I'll say that since then, our company has grown at a rate much faster than it originally had, and we've invested in right leadership. And so now our retention rates both for employees and clients are at all-time highs. Our profit margin has steadily increased quarter over quarter over quarter for a year and a half straight. So that investment that we ended up making at that time in leadership, which corrected our original mistake, has really paid off for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your takeaway that you would offer to the listeners so that they could apply this to their businesses, but also to their lives when it comes to investing? Because we do want to be careful with our money.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. So for me it's ... the saying that we've coined is, pinching pennies is fine, but you better pinch the right ones. The idea is is that a lot of people look at finances and expenses on a sheet and say: where can I make sure my costs stay in line? But what people rarely do is look at it and go: what investment yields me the highest return?

Vic Drabicky:
And the reason I think most people do that is the first one is easy. You put it on a spreadsheet and you go, oh, my people cost me $10, my office costs me 2 ... unless you're in New York then it costs 8 ... and people look at this and that's a very easy thing to move around. But understanding what the profit you're going to get from that investment is much harder and much more nebulous.

Vic Drabicky:
So instead, if you're able to take that spreadsheet and still have it ... add an extra column in the end that goes, okay if I spend these $10 on these people, I'm going to make 20. If I spend this $8 on technology, I'm going to make 22. Okay, that might actually be the better one. So as long as you have that end goal next to it, it allows you to ensure you're pinching the right pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
But if you're being honest with yourself, Vic, looking back, do you think that as a startup entrepreneur, self-funding, which is huge, could you have, even now looking back, really stomached hiring expensive people? It's hard to really do, right?

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. It's extremely hard to do. You know, I think one of the things that's great about not having funding is you don't owe anybody any growth. And so when you don't owe anybody growth, you don't have to take on a deal that maybe your people don't like or maybe you don't like just to hit your growth goals. You can take on things that are really true to the mission of what you want, or what you want to accomplish. And so if that mission of what you want to accomplish is a really good one, then not having that funding allows you to stay true to that and you'll still eventually succeed.

Vic Drabicky:
So there's that side. But on the other side of it, again, having the risk of my bank account being zero if things went bad is an awfully hefty risk. So I still haven't figured out exactly if I would have changed it or not, but I'm very happy to be where we are now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fair enough. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. Because this is something that is relatable to so many people but yet we don't do. Go for it.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah. Plan your work, work your plan. Finances more than almost any other part of your business, I think, is something that you have to have a plan around. You absolutely have to sit down, write out what you want to accomplish, write out what it takes, write out what the costs are, all the cost centers, all of those sorts of things. You have to do that. Once you have that plan down, then you work against that.

Vic Drabicky:
Inevitably, what you'll find out is that your plan on day one is slightly outdated on day two, and is really outdated by day 365. But what happens is if you have that plan and you're constantly working against it and you tweak, versus having no plan and trying to resolve everything as it comes out, you're going to be significantly more successful. This works both at home and in the office.

Vic Drabicky:
In the office we have something that we run. We always have our plan for the entire year, then we have our forecast which shows what our trend is, and we have our actuals. And we always keep the plan steady; we never touch it. January 1st it's set in stone. We don't touch it. The forecast we adjust, and obviously the actuals we put in each month.

Vic Drabicky:
But I actually do the same thing at home. I'm very lucky to have married a very talented woman who owns an interior design firm. The great thing about that is she's extremely talented; the bad thing about that means our house is under construction every day for the entire year. It's sort of running on the fly, but what we do is at the beginning of the year we sit down and go, here are all the projects we want to get done for this year. Let's write them down then we can start prioritizing against them, and then we can start figuring out which ones we actually can accomplish, which ones we can't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit more about January Digital and the work that you do there. Explain to me, what is the challenge? Because it's kind of a moving target, digital marketing. And you work with some brands that have ... some are newer brands, some are older brands. Like you work with David's Bridal; that's got to be challenging. You work with Kendra Scott, one of my favorite jewelry lines. Tell me more.

Vic Drabicky:
Yeah, so I mean, it definitely is. Our primary focus is on retail, luxury, and beauty. So most of our clients fit within that. Not all of them. David's Bridal being a good example of one that, you know, from the outside you might look at it and go, okay, that's an interesting brand but it doesn't sound near as sexy as working with Tory Burch or J.Crew or-

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. So how do you do that? Right.

Vic Drabicky:
What I think is great about what we've been able to do is that we are very good at making sure what we want to accomplish with our clients aligns very well with what they want us to accomplish for them. That sounds very simplistic, but I think a lot of times clients look at agencies and think of them as this mysterious entity over there that they're going to kick work to, and every year they're just going to [inaudible 00:11:16] to make sure that their fees go down. And we're very clear going in to people saying, no, that's not what we want. And we as an agency are going to invest in you. We're going to put people in your offices to make sure we know you and your brand and everything you want to accomplish.

Vic Drabicky:
And what that does is that really aligns both of us not as two separate entities but as one team trying to accomplish things. And whenever you have that as your base, it doesn't matter if you're selling dresses or jewelry. When you have that at your core, your opportunity to succeed is significantly higher. And that's what we've seen. And that's why our client retention rate is north of 90 percent versus the industry average, which is below 70 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you were starting out as an entrepreneur in general, not someone that is a digital marketing agency, but if you're just trying to get attention online, get your brand noticed, do you have any tips for people that aren't at the level where they can hire an agency?

Vic Drabicky:
I still think one of the more underused techniques is to use LinkedIn to advertise your business. You can go in and very quickly advertise against prospects that you want to talk to. You can very quickly advertise against audiences, those sorts of things. And if you have truly valuable content that you want to share, it's a really cheap, easy way to go in and start being very ... test the waters to see how your message is resonating.

Vic Drabicky:
For those that are not in a service industry but maybe you're selling a product, maybe you're a jeweler, or whatever it might be. What I always tell people is start small and then iterate really quickly. There are sort of the basics of digital marketing that always start with Google search, then you can move on to Facebook. But just do one piece at a time.

Vic Drabicky:
If you can do one piece at a time and figure out how to do it well, what happens is it becomes very predictable. And so now all of a sudden every morning when you wake up, you know Google's going to make you $10 and Facebook is going to make you 2. Okay so if your goal for the day was only to make $15, you don't have to worry about those 12. You only have to worry about selling the last 3. And that simplifies [inaudible 00:13:07] problems down and allows you to focus on the areas that you need to solve versus the ones that are consistent and will deliver every day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Such valuable advice. Thank you so much. Okay, now that you have a website, tell us where we can go and where we can follow January Digital and you on social.

Vic Drabicky:
Sure. januarydigital.com is the website. Please don't judge us too much; while we think it looks great, we still have a lot of work to do. And then, quite honestly, we do a ton on LinkedIn. I try to post relatively regularly on LinkedIn. Our company does as well. We include content that everyone from our newest employees who are just out of school all the way up to people who have been here six, seven years, we allow them to post content quite a bit that we find valuable. And we share it all pretty openly too, so ... Those are the areas that I think we're probably most active. Obviously we're still on Facebook and things like that too. But that's probably the best area to get to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Vic. This was great.

Vic Drabicky:
Absolutely. I appreciate you having me. And congratulations on all your success as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one. Focus. I get overwhelmed by all the things I want to learn, and Vic makes a great point about learning about new things but maybe focus on one thing at a time. I'm going to take that advice myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. There is no right answer when you're starting a new venture, personal or business. So be prepared to pivot. Vic knows, looking back, that he aimed too low in his hiring. But also admits that his reason for doing so made sense at the time. And he still sees why they made sense, even in retrospect. So in life and in business, part of being a financial grownup is accepting that sometimes there is no perfect answer. Let's say Vic had stretched and had hired more expensive and more experienced people from the get-go; that also had risks. He did what he thought was best at the time and then when it wasn't, he course-corrected.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thanks everyone for joining us. If you like the podcast and enjoy it, don't forget to subscribe. And we really appreciate ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or anywhere. All feedback is good. And big thanks to January Digital's Vic Drabicky for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. #EatHealthy #EatHealthyOnABudget #Author