3 Bold Money Tips with Author Shanna Hocking Encore

 

Episode Description:

 The author of One Bold Move a Day, leadership consultant Shanna Hocking shares specific actions we can all take to advance our careers and our financial goals and invest in peace of mind.




Shanna’s Bio:

Shanna A. Hocking is a leadership consultant, philanthropic advisor, author, and speaker with 20 years of experience raising hundreds of millions of dollars and leading large teams at organizations such as the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Alabama, and Duke University. Her clients include universities, national nonprofit organizations, global businesses, and family foundations. Shanna is the author of One Bold Move a Day: Meaningful Actions Women Can Take to Fulfill Their Leadership and Career Potential (McGraw Hill, November 2022), which was recognized as a November nominee of The Next Big Idea Club. Shanna's articles have been published on Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Fast Company, The Muse, and Motherly, and her expertise has been featured in Bloomberg News, PIX11 News, Entrepreneur, Chicago Tribune, Today.com, Insider, and The Business Journals, among others.

 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi:

The other day I was watching our local news and there was a story that came on about using confetti- yes confetti- to de-stress. And I have to admit it was pretty appealing. By the way it's called the confetti project if you want to look it up. But guess what is the top thing that we stress about. Ok well given that you are listening to this you know the answer. It is money. According to the American Psychological Association, money continues to be the top source of stress for Americans. That’s where Financial Wellness Strategies comes in. We provide educational resources for companies employees to balance financial wealth with mental health. Financial literacy is important but we need to go beyond academics and learn how it all actually fits into our real lives- and what we want to accomplish with our hard-earned money. Learn more about how you and your company can invest in peace of mind at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com
Welcome everyone to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell. I run Financial Wellness Strategies which provides financial wellness programs to companies for their employees. I also have written a couple of books about being a financial grownup - thus the name of this podcast. 

Every week we share a quote that I hope will get everyone thinking. This week’s is by author Zig Ziglar 

“You don’t have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.” 

It fits perfectly into the theme I want everyone to have top of mind as we move towards fall. Maybe think about one bold move. 

Which brings me to the interview I am going to share this week.

Leadership consultant and philanthropic advisor Shanna Hocking is the host of the One Bold Move a Day podcast and the author of a new book by that same name.  But what I love most about her is that she walks the walk when it comes to the bold moves- she is candid about the things that slipped through the cracks, about the experiences she has learned from- and as an author I will tell you - her book is the real deal. It is endorsed not only by Adam Grant who wrote Think again and hosts the Ted podcast Work Life- but also by many of my personal friends that have been on this podcast including top workplace strategists Erica Keswin , Whitney Johnson and Dorie Clark. We'll leave links to their episodes in the show notes of course.

And after the interview- I'm going to share the one bold move that Shanna made to connect to me!

Here is Shanna Hocking.

Shanna Hocking, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shanna:

Thanks, Bobbi. I'm so glad to be here.

Bobbi:

I'm glad to finally get you here, especially for our first episode of 2023, because you are the author of my new favorite book, One Bold Move a Day, perfect for New Year's. So thank you for being here.

Shanna:

I am excited to have this conversation together.

Bobbi:

And this is kind of putting a bow on the fact that you have a podcast by the same name that has over 250 episodes. Congratulations on that. I want everyone to check it out. It has, well, 250 episodes first of all, but it's like a binge happy podcast because they're all six minutes; so great.

Shanna:

It was a labor of love, and I'm delighted that people enjoy it, and six minutes is great. Like you said, you can listen to one or listen to five.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and some of the topics are so awesome, especially if you're working remotely. First of all, I love the episode about virtual icebreakers. You also have a number of episodes about connecting with people when they're not there, and just also, of course, the bold moves that you can do every day. So on that note, let's just start. Explain the concept of One Bold Move a Day, because that's sort of your overarching theme to inspire people in your leadership business.

Shanna:

So when people hear bold moves, they often think the all caps text to your best friend or something that would go on a billboard, and the way that I define bold moves is it's a meaningful action that helps you learn, move forward, and grow, which helps you understand how it's possible to make a bold move every day, and sometimes, yes, they're moving across the country, or taking a new job, or asking for a promotion, and other times, it's meeting someone for the first time, or saying hello to someone in a coffee shop, or correcting when someone mispronounces your name.

Bobbi:

Ooh, that's a big one. How do you do that?

Shanna:

Well, I think it's coming from the idea that you believe that you belong wherever you are, whether it's at the table, in the room, and you feel that there is something that you can learn from this experience. So I spent a long time of my life not telling people how to correctly pronounce my name, and it wasn't until the pandemic when everything was virtual and on Zoom, and I started adding, "Shanna, rhymes with Donna," on my Zoom, because I wanted to give people the grace. People want to say your name right, but it still feels really uncomfortable to correct people, and so instead of thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I'm telling them they did it wrong," I think, "I'm valuing myself," and that's my bold move today.

Bobbi:

Excellent. You brought with you three bold grownup money tips for the new year that you're going to share with us. The first one is something that's really tricky that I know I have shied away from.

Shanna:

So talking about your salary with others.

Bobbi:

Mm-hmm.

Shanna:

We were raised, particularly as women in our generation, to not talk about money. It was considered a bad thing, which is why I love that you are openly talking about money and helping people feel more comfortable about it, because money is power, and talking about your salary helps you to understand what your market value is, and this is something that if you negotiate, as I'm sure you've said many times, if you negotiate at the beginning of your career, you're setting yourself up for future success. So though I didn't do this early in my career, because, of course, nice girls don't talk about money, over time, I have really stretched to be able to have conversations about money, and it started when someone who was a mentor to me shared with me her exact salary, which was mind-blowing. This woman, who's been in her career for 30 years, she told me what she was making, and it helped me feel confident to ask for the number I felt like I deserved, and I've tried to pay that forward to others.

Bobbi:

How does that even come up? Can you recall that conversation? Are you just chatting away, having lunch, and like, "Oh, by the way, I make this amount." I mean, how does that happen? Because I don't feel like that comes up in my general conversation with my friends, or my business colleagues, and contacts, et cetera.

Shanna:

You're right; this is not something that is just like a lunchtime conversation, although I do hear that this is much more common for millennials and Gen Z. The stigma around money is not as present for them, and I wonder about this for your stepdaughter. Is this something that they're talking about at lunchtime, though you and I might not have before we had this conversation? So what I loved so much was that I said to her, "Do you have a sense of the range for this kind of position on the market?" And she responded by saying, "Well, I'm just going to tell you what my exact salary is."

It really shocked me, and I was even nervous to say, "Do you know what the range is?" And so I think what we have to do is kind of come up with our conversation starters in order to make these bold move money moves to be able to say, "You know what? I'm going up for a new position, and I really want to make sure that I'm being appropriately paid. Would you be willing to share with me either your salary or the range that you're aware of in the market?" And let them say no or yes; much more likely they're going to be able to give you some kind of answer that will be helpful.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and I think the key is the context, and really having a purpose, that it's not like you're just being nosy or want to pry into their business; there's a real reason, and there's a sense that you will also return the favor, and give them mutual information when it's appropriate in that way, and that brings us to your second money tip for grownups coming into the new year, which has to do with negotiation.

Shanna:

So negotiation is something that just like talking about money with your friends, talking about money with your boss and with your organization doesn't necessarily feel like a comfortable conversation to have either. I remember thinking about how I was going to prepare for a promotion, and having conversations and practicing this with my best friend for months. She was also going up for promotion at the same time, and so we chose to be accountability partners and supporting each other. "How will you handle this part? What will you say here? How do you even know what the appropriate salary is to ask for?"

I think there's a lot of information available on the internet that can give you a sense of what the market has to offer, and then having those conversations, those brave, bold move conversations with people that you respect, and then being willing to say, "This is, based on my research, this is the salary that I think is appropriate for this position," and what's important is that I didn't say this is the salary that's appropriate for me, because it's almost like you're not even a part of this, even though of course it's about you. This is about getting paid appropriately for the role, and the value that you bring to the company, and keeping focused on that like you are providing a value takes out some of the personal emotions that we all feel when we're asking for something for ourselves.

Bobbi:

And that's interesting, because it does give you wiggle room, because there may be a time when I know I took a pay cut once making a career transition, and it was really hard, but I had to sort of understand that's what the market paid for that, because I was pivoting within my career, and looking back, it does make a lot of sense, because it's not always personal. It is what the market costs, but also, there's the balance of what that company can pay, and sometimes, you have to make a decision, because the company maybe can't afford to pay the "market rate." Maybe their business isn't so strong, and so you have to discuss with them whether it makes sense to be paying you under market, but maybe you say it out loud, "I will take this job being paid under market, but maybe there are other ways you can make it up to me," maybe with incentive plans, and things like that, to kind of put it out there, right?

Shanna:

Absolutely. There's so much more that goes into a job choice than just the salary alone. So do you feel like you can thrive there? Are you going to be able to learn? Will your manager support and value you? Will you enjoy working with your colleagues? How does this fit into who you want to become? Money, of course, is a part of that. It's how we pay our bills, it's how we enjoy our life, but it's not the only part, and I think it's great that you're mentioning the other things beyond the actual take-home pay that can contribute to your financial wellbeing and the things that you get from that company in exchange for the value that you provide.

Bobbi:

All right, money tip number three has to do with giving back.

Shanna:

Well, this is something that's really special and important to me. I started my career in fundraising. I found my dream career at age 18, and to work in fundraising when you're 18 is slightly unusual. I loved it. It was everything that I wanted to do. Philanthropy is about helping to make things possible, and aligning it with what is important to other people, and so this idea that we all have a responsibility to give back is so important, and I really believe when you give from the heart is where you find joy. I always tell donors that I work with or clients that I work with the point here is going to be just stretch until it feels like this is more than I might have expected, and that's where the joy really happens. It's so intentional, and it's so action-oriented, and it doesn't matter if you're giving away $100 million or a dollar, whatever is appropriate to you, this is an opportunity for you to make a difference in your community and have the legacy that you want to have, too.

Bobbi:

And I like that you're stressing it's what's appropriate for you, because sometimes we do have friends that may contribute at different levels, higher or lower, and it's important to be supportive of the ones that may share with you that they're contributing at a lower level, and also not to feel pressure from the ones at a higher level. They often really aren't concerned. Nobody's judging you, except they're supporting the fact that you are participating, because we do get asked by so many friends during the year that are doing different fundraising things.

You want to show support; it doesn't have to be a lot of money, and one thing that I've done is I've put aside sort of a fund for the year that I'm going to spend X dollars supporting my friends' charitable causes, where you might give $25, $50, maybe $100 if they're running a race, or something like that. So you're contributing, and then you can say, "This is what I have from my budget for these things," and just make it personal, but maybe a little bit also like, "But this is what I have to do for my financial wellness."

Shanna:

I love it, and what I think is so great, Bobbi, is that you have set this aside. It's very intentional, it's very purposeful. When I'm working with philanthropic advisory clients, what I say to them is, "What is it that you want to accomplish with your money? What is important to you? Let's start there," and then you can set aside what other people are going to ask you for, the friends that you want to support, and if you're very clear from the beginning about what causes and organizations you want to support, then it becomes easier at the times when other people are asking you for things to say, "I've already dedicated my budget to that particular cause for this year."

Bobbi:

Love that. All right, before I let you go, I want to talk to you a little bit more about this book, One Bold Move a Day. Like I said, capping off your 250 podcast episodes, podcast by the same name. What's your favorite story from the book?

Shanna:

Oh, well, I'm often asked what my favorite bold move is from the book, and it's like choosing amongst your children. I would think-

Bobbi:

Oh, gosh.

Shanna:

So the one that really resonates with what I've learned throughout my career that I think is a way to pay it forward and start making your own bold moves is the Atta Girl folder. When I was an intern in college, I was 19 for a job I cold-called to get, and my mentor came over to me with a plain manila folder, and she said to me, "This is your Atta Girl folder." I was 19 years old. I didn't even know what that meant, and what she told me was that I was going to put in it the notes and accolades that I received throughout my career, and to look back on it on the hard days, and she said, "There will be hard days."

So I dutifully took the folder, and was like, "Well, I trust my mentor; she's amazing, and my boss, and I will certainly use this," and Bobbi, it has been the most treasured thing that I have brought through every office move, that I have made every career move. I have it sitting right behind me on my bookshelf. I now have an email folder as well as a paper folder, because the times have changed so much, and it is really valuable to look back at on your hard days, to remember what you have already accomplished, and the value you bring to the world, and so my encouragement is for everyone to start their bold move folder, their Atta Girl folder, whatever they want to call it, and start remembering and celebrating their progress.

Bobbi:

Such great advice going into a new year, where so many people are hoping to make job changes. There's some statistics out there. I think 50% of people are thinking they want to change their job in 2023. So it's important to bring along those good accolades and remember, because I think looking for a job can sometimes feel like you're being rejected, when really, there's a bunch of stories. We don't have time to go into it, but there's some very poignant stories, even very personal to you, about rejection earlier in your career, and learning that sometimes the other person maybe was more qualified; sometimes it had nothing to do with you. Maybe sometimes they never even saw your resume. Whatever it is, don't get down, stay on the path, and go for your goals in 2023. Shanna Hocking, hopefully I said your name correctly, because I know you'll correct me if I don't, tell us more about where people can catch up with you, buy your book, listen... Well, your podcast is everywhere, and just be in touch, because I know that you do amazing stuff, especially for women looking to advance their careers.

Shanna:

Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I would love to continue the conversation with others. You can find me at ShannaAHocking.com, and my book, One Bold Move a Day, is available anywhere you like to buy books, and there's more information about it on my website as well.

Bobbi:

Thank you so much.

Shanna:

Thank you.

Bobbi:

We all want to live our best financial grownup lives and one way to do that is to know that the people we care about are also in a good place when it comes to their money. That might mean our kids, our grandkids and yes- even our friends. But how. Its’ awkward. You see them struggling- pretending to know more than they do- or making bad money decisions but don’t know what to say- and even if you say something supportive- then what? That’s why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups. In Launching Financial Grownups I share the tools and strategies so you know what to say to take the pressure off and give those you love the confidence they need. It's about giving those we care about the right amount of help, at the right time- so they can not only learn what they need to know about being financial grownups- but also be confident they can do it- and that you will be there to cheer them on. Pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups - I promise you will be so happy you did.

I did not realize it until after our interview was over- but my connection to Shanna was actually one of her Bold Moves!

When authors get book deals, they are announced in the Publishers Marketplace. The day mine was published I got a DM on instagram from Shanna congratulating me- and noting that her book deal was right next to mine! It was so nice! Then a few months later I got an email that said "We exchanged a note on IG a few months ago when our new books were in Publisher's Marketplace on the same day and I noticed your announcement next to mine--so exciting! I'd welcome the chance to connect further and learn more about your work. 

What's the best way to schedule 30 minutes with you?

And we did. fast forward more than a year and I now consider her a friend.

So your extra credit assignment this week is- you guessed it- to make one bold move. 

DM me on instagram at bobbirebell1 and let me know what it is!

Make sure to pick up Shanna’s book “One Bold Move” 
Big thanks to Shanna Hocking for helping us be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind. 

Wellness for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support, and show notes by Alliee Borbon. Artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. 

To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial lives. There is a link in the show notes but you can also sign up at bobbirebell.com or at financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be a friend- share the podcast with your friends by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram at bobbirebell1. And while you’re there- follow me- and if you DM me that you listen to the podcast I will follow you back. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And finally, my grownup friends, don’t forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks, everyone. 

 
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