3 Bold Money Tips with Author Shanna Hocking

 

Episode Description:

The author of One Bold Move a Day, leadership consultant Shanna Hocking shares specific actions we can all take to advance our careers, our financial goals and have a great 2023.

A little sneak peek into Shanna Hocking’s episode.

Timestamps & Main Points:

  • 00:00 - Introduction

  • 05:39 - Shanna’s secret to correcting someone in an awkward situation

  • 06:54 - Bold move #1 Money tips

  • 09:41 - Bold move #2 Negotiation strategies

  • 12:21 - Bold move #3 Philanthropy mindset

  • 15:16 - Shanna’s never-fail strategy for reminding yourself of your value.


Shanna’s Bio:

Shanna A. Hocking is a leadership consultant, philanthropic advisor, author, and speaker with 20 years of experience raising hundreds of millions of dollars and leading large teams at organizations such as the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Alabama, and Duke University. Her clients include universities, national nonprofit organizations, global businesses, and family foundations. Shanna is the author of One Bold Move a Day: Meaningful Actions Women Can Take to Fulfill Their Leadership and Career Potential (McGraw Hill, November 2022), which was recognized as a November nominee of The Next Big Idea Club. Shanna's articles have been published on Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Fast Company, The Muse, and Motherly, and her expertise has been featured in Bloomberg News, PIX11 News, Entrepreneur, Chicago Tribune, Today.com, Insider, and The Business Journals, among others.

 
 

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi:

Hey, grownup friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing. Even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload, and it stresses me out, for good reason, because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be, because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better, and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company, and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is BobbiRebell.com/CleanMyMac, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com/CleanMyMac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you will be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

Shanna:

It has been the most treasured thing that I have brought through every office move, that I have made every career move. I have it sitting right behind me on my bookshelf. I now have an email folder as well as a paper folder because the times have changed so much, and it is really valuable to look back at on your hard days, to remember what you have already accomplished, and the value you bring to the world.

Bobbi:

You are listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together, we got this.

Very excited for 2023, my friends. We are moving past what's been a few rocky years for many of us. Now is the time when I feel like we can really, and this has inspired the title of this episode, this is a time when we can make some bold moves. So leadership consultant and philanthropic advisor, Shanna Hocking is our guest. She is the host of the One Bold Move a Day podcast and now the author of a new book by that same name, One Bold Move a Day: Meaningful Actions Women can Take to Fulfill Their Leadership and Career Potential. Besides all her accomplishments, what I really love most about Shanna is that she walks the walk when it comes to bold moves. Shanna is pretty candid about things in her life that have just kind of slipped through the cracks and she kind of muddled through about the experiences that she has learned from.

And as an author, I will tell you her book is The Real Deal. I was super impressed when this came. It is endorsed not only by Adam Grant, who wrote Think Again and hosts the TED Podcast Work Life, but also by many of my personal friends that I really admire. They have been on this podcast. They include top workplace strategists like Erica Keswin, Whitney Johnson, and Dorie Clark. We will leave links to all of their episodes in the show notes, of course, and after the interview, guys, I'm going to share the one bold move that Shanna used to connect to me, because we did not have those friends in common, or at least neither of us knew at the time that we had those friends in common, and she did the one bold move a day, and I didn't even spot it, but it was so awesome. Listen to the interview. I'll be back. Here is Shanna Hocking.

Shanna Hocking, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shanna:

Thanks, Bobbi. I'm so glad to be here.

Bobbi:

I'm glad to finally get you here, especially for our first episode of 2023, because you are the author of my new favorite book, One Bold Move a Day, perfect for New Year's. So thank you for being here.

Shanna:

I am excited to have this conversation together.

Bobbi:

And this is kind of putting a bow on the fact that you have a podcast by the same name that has over 250 episodes. Congratulations on that. I want everyone to check it out. It has, well, 250 episodes first of all, but it's like a binge happy podcast because they're all six minutes; so great.

Shanna:

It was a labor of love, and I'm delighted that people enjoy it, and six minutes is great. Like you said, you can listen to one or listen to five.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and some of the topics are so awesome, especially if you're working remotely. First of all, I love the episode about virtual icebreakers. You also have a number of episodes about connecting with people when they're not there, and just also, of course, the bold moves that you can do every day. So on that note, let's just start. Explain the concept of One Bold Move a Day, because that's sort of your overarching theme to inspire people in your leadership business.

Shanna:

So when people hear bold moves, they often think the all caps text to your best friend or something that would go on a billboard, and the way that I define bold moves is it's a meaningful action that helps you learn, move forward, and grow, which helps you understand how it's possible to make a bold move every day, and sometimes, yes, they're moving across the country, or taking a new job, or asking for a promotion, and other times, it's meeting someone for the first time, or saying hello to someone in a coffee shop, or correcting when someone mispronounces your name.

Bobbi:

Ooh, that's a big one. How do you do that?

Shanna:

Well, I think it's coming from the idea that you believe that you belong wherever you are, whether it's at the table, in the room, and you feel that there is something that you can learn from this experience. So I spent a long time of my life not telling people how to correctly pronounce my name, and it wasn't until the pandemic when everything was virtual and on Zoom, and I started adding, "Shanna, rhymes with Donna," on my Zoom, because I wanted to give people the grace. People want to say your name right, but it still feels really uncomfortable to correct people, and so instead of thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I'm telling them they did it wrong," I think, "I'm valuing myself," and that's my bold move today.

Bobbi:

Excellent. You brought with you three bold grownup money tips for the new year that you're going to share with us. The first one is something that's really tricky that I know I have shied away from.

Shanna:

So talking about your salary with others.

Bobbi:

Mm-hmm.

Shanna:

We were raised, particularly as women in our generation, to not talk about money. It was considered a bad thing, which is why I love that you are openly talking about money and helping people feel more comfortable about it, because money is power, and talking about your salary helps you to understand what your market value is, and this is something that if you negotiate, as I'm sure you've said many times, if you negotiate at the beginning of your career, you're setting yourself up for future success. So though I didn't do this early in my career, because, of course, nice girls don't talk about money, over time, I have really stretched to be able to have conversations about money, and it started when someone who was a mentor to me shared with me her exact salary, which was mind-blowing. This woman, who's been in her career for 30 years, she told me what she was making, and it helped me feel confident to ask for the number I felt like I deserved, and I've tried to pay that forward to others.

Bobbi:

How does that even come up? Can you recall that conversation? Are you just chatting away, having lunch, and like, "Oh, by the way, I make this amount." I mean, how does that happen? Because I don't feel like that comes up in my general conversation with my friends, or my business colleagues, and contacts, et cetera.

Shanna:

You're right; this is not something that is just like a lunchtime conversation, although I do hear that this is much more common for millennials and Gen Z. The stigma around money is not as present for them, and I wonder about this for your stepdaughter. Is this something that they're talking about at lunchtime, though you and I might not have before we had this conversation? So what I loved so much was that I said to her, "Do you have a sense of the range for this kind of position on the market?" And she responded by saying, "Well, I'm just going to tell you what my exact salary is."

It really shocked me, and I was even nervous to say, "Do you know what the range is?" And so I think what we have to do is kind of come up with our conversation starters in order to make these bold move money moves to be able to say, "You know what? I'm going up for a new position, and I really want to make sure that I'm being appropriately paid. Would you be willing to share with me either your salary or the range that you're aware of in the market?" And let them say no or yes; much more likely they're going to be able to give you some kind of answer that will be helpful.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and I think the key is the context, and really having a purpose, that it's not like you're just being nosy or want to pry into their business; there's a real reason, and there's a sense that you will also return the favor, and give them mutual information when it's appropriate in that way, and that brings us to your second money tip for grownups coming into the new year, which has to do with negotiation.

Shanna:

So negotiation is something that just like talking about money with your friends, talking about money with your boss and with your organization doesn't necessarily feel like a comfortable conversation to have either. I remember thinking about how I was going to prepare for a promotion, and having conversations and practicing this with my best friend for months. She was also going up for promotion at the same time, and so we chose to be accountability partners and supporting each other. "How will you handle this part? What will you say here? How do you even know what the appropriate salary is to ask for?"

I think there's a lot of information available on the internet that can give you a sense of what the market has to offer, and then having those conversations, those brave, bold move conversations with people that you respect, and then being willing to say, "This is, based on my research, this is the salary that I think is appropriate for this position," and what's important is that I didn't say this is the salary that's appropriate for me, because it's almost like you're not even a part of this, even though of course it's about you. This is about getting paid appropriately for the role, and the value that you bring to the company, and keeping focused on that like you are providing a value takes out some of the personal emotions that we all feel when we're asking for something for ourselves.

Bobbi:

And that's interesting, because it does give you wiggle room, because there may be a time when I know I took a pay cut once making a career transition, and it was really hard, but I had to sort of understand that's what the market paid for that, because I was pivoting within my career, and looking back, it does make a lot of sense, because it's not always personal. It is what the market costs, but also, there's the balance of what that company can pay, and sometimes, you have to make a decision, because the company maybe can't afford to pay the "market rate." Maybe their business isn't so strong, and so you have to discuss with them whether it makes sense to be paying you under market, but maybe you say it out loud, "I will take this job being paid under market, but maybe there are other ways you can make it up to me," maybe with incentive plans, and things like that, to kind of put it out there, right?

Shanna:

Absolutely. There's so much more that goes into a job choice than just the salary alone. So do you feel like you can thrive there? Are you going to be able to learn? Will your manager support and value you? Will you enjoy working with your colleagues? How does this fit into who you want to become? Money, of course, is a part of that. It's how we pay our bills, it's how we enjoy our life, but it's not the only part, and I think it's great that you're mentioning the other things beyond the actual take-home pay that can contribute to your financial wellbeing and the things that you get from that company in exchange for the value that you provide.

Bobbi:

All right, money tip number three has to do with giving back.

Shanna:

Well, this is something that's really special and important to me. I started my career in fundraising. I found my dream career at age 18, and to work in fundraising when you're 18 is slightly unusual. I loved it. It was everything that I wanted to do. Philanthropy is about helping to make things possible, and aligning it with what is important to other people, and so this idea that we all have a responsibility to give back is so important, and I really believe when you give from the heart is where you find joy. I always tell donors that I work with or clients that I work with the point here is going to be just stretch until it feels like this is more than I might have expected, and that's where the joy really happens. It's so intentional, and it's so action-oriented, and it doesn't matter if you're giving away $100 million or a dollar, whatever is appropriate to you, this is an opportunity for you to make a difference in your community and have the legacy that you want to have, too.

Bobbi:

And I like that you're stressing it's what's appropriate for you, because sometimes we do have friends that may contribute at different levels, higher or lower, and it's important to be supportive of the ones that may share with you that they're contributing at a lower level, and also not to feel pressure from the ones at a higher level. They often really aren't concerned. Nobody's judging you, except they're supporting the fact that you are participating, because we do get asked by so many friends during the year that are doing different fundraising things.

You want to show support; it doesn't have to be a lot of money, and one thing that I've done is I've put aside sort of a fund for the year that I'm going to spend X dollars supporting my friends' charitable causes, where you might give $25, $50, maybe $100 if they're running a race, or something like that. So you're contributing, and then you can say, "This is what I have from my budget for these things," and just make it personal, but maybe a little bit also like, "But this is what I have to do for my financial wellness."

Shanna:

I love it, and what I think is so great, Bobbi, is that you have set this aside. It's very intentional, it's very purposeful. When I'm working with philanthropic advisory clients, what I say to them is, "What is it that you want to accomplish with your money? What is important to you? Let's start there," and then you can set aside what other people are going to ask you for, the friends that you want to support, and if you're very clear from the beginning about what causes and organizations you want to support, then it becomes easier at the times when other people are asking you for things to say, "I've already dedicated my budget to that particular cause for this year."

Bobbi:

Love that. All right, before I let you go, I want to talk to you a little bit more about this book, One Bold Move a Day. Like I said, capping off your 250 podcast episodes, podcast by the same name. What's your favorite story from the book?

Shanna:

Oh, well, I'm often asked what my favorite bold move is from the book, and it's like choosing amongst your children. I would think-

Bobbi:

Oh, gosh.

Shanna:

So the one that really resonates with what I've learned throughout my career that I think is a way to pay it forward and start making your own bold moves is the Atta Girl folder. When I was an intern in college, I was 19 for a job I cold-called to get, and my mentor came over to me with a plain manila folder, and she said to me, "This is your Atta Girl folder." I was 19 years old. I didn't even know what that meant, and what she told me was that I was going to put in it the notes and accolades that I received throughout my career, and to look back on it on the hard days, and she said, "There will be hard days."

So I dutifully took the folder, and was like, "Well, I trust my mentor; she's amazing, and my boss, and I will certainly use this," and Bobbi, it has been the most treasured thing that I have brought through every office move, that I have made every career move. I have it sitting right behind me on my bookshelf. I now have an email folder as well as a paper folder, because the times have changed so much, and it is really valuable to look back at on your hard days, to remember what you have already accomplished, and the value you bring to the world, and so my encouragement is for everyone to start their bold move folder, their Atta Girl folder, whatever they want to call it, and start remembering and celebrating their progress.

Bobbi:

Such great advice going into a new year, where so many people are hoping to make job changes. There's some statistics out there. I think 50% of people are thinking they want to change their job in 2023. So it's important to bring along those good accolades and remember, because I think looking for a job can sometimes feel like you're being rejected, when really, there's a bunch of stories. We don't have time to go into it, but there's some very poignant stories, even very personal to you, about rejection earlier in your career, and learning that sometimes the other person maybe was more qualified; sometimes it had nothing to do with you. Maybe sometimes they never even saw your resume. Whatever it is, don't get down, stay on the path, and go for your goals in 2023. Shanna Hocking, hopefully I said your name correctly, because I know you'll correct me if I don't, tell us more about where people can catch up with you, buy your book, listen... Well, your podcast is everywhere, and just be in touch, because I know that you do amazing stuff, especially for women looking to advance their careers.

Shanna:

Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I would love to continue the conversation with others. You can find me at ShannaAHocking.com, and my book, One Bold Move a Day, is available anywhere you like to buy books, and there's more information about it on my website as well.

Bobbi:

Thank you so much.

Shanna:

Thank you.

Bobbi:

A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids, and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends, and also financial therapists, and parenting experts.

I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it, and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them, and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

So I did not even realize it until after our interview, the one you just listened to, until after our interview was over, but my connection to Shanna was actually one of her old moves, and I had no idea. Here's what happened: when authors get book deals, they're announced in Publisher's Marketplace. The day mine was published, I got a DM on Instagram from Shanna, congratulating me, and noting that her book deal was right next to mine in Publisher's Marketplace. It was so nice. It really felt good to be sort of recognized and celebrated by another author, and of course I was happy for her as well.

So then, fast forward a few months later, I get an email that said, and this is what she literally wrote, and we can learn from this, "We exchanged a note on IG a few months ago when our new books were in Publisher's Marketplace on the same day, and I noticed your announcement next to mine. So exciting. I'd welcome the chance to connect further and learn more about your work. What's the best way to schedule 30 minutes with you?" And we did. Fast forward more than a year, and we've been in contact exchanging ideas, and I now consider her a friend, and of course, I brought her to all of you, because I think she's wonderful, and she was a guest on this podcast, and we'll probably do more together in the next year.

So I ask you, what will be your bold moves beginning in 2023? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1. Trust me, it works, right? Happy New Year to everyone, and a big thanks to Shanna Hocking, pronouncing her name correctly, right, everyone? To Shanna Hocking for helping us make bold moves and be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return.

Here's how you can do that: first, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, GrownupGear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends, and treating yourself as well, and most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 

 
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