When relationships complicate money goals with Beyond your Hammock’s Eric Roberg

 

Episode Description: Strategies to maintain relationships with loved ones who don’t share all your money values with financial planner Eric Roberge, co-host of the Beyond Finances podcast.

Video Highlight: Eric Roberge on spending differences in relationships

Eric’s Bio:

Eric Roberge, CFP®, is the founder of Beyond Your Hammock, a Boston-based fee-only financial planning firm that specializes in financial planning and investment management for professionals in their 30s and 40s. Beyond Your Hammock’s mission is to design systems that allow fellow high-achieving professionals to get more from their money while still enjoying what they love. Eric has more than 15 years of experience as a financial advisor and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Marketwatch, and The Boston Globe. He has been named to InvestmentNews' 40 Under 40 List, as well as Investopedia's Top 100 Most Influential Advisors and Expertise.com's Best Advisors in Boston. Eric writes for Business Insider, Forbes, and Kiplinger, and he hosts his own podcast, Beyond Finances.

 
 

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Full Transcript:

When it comes to money, I think we can all agree we can never know too much. That's why you listen to podcasts like this, right? If we're being honest, we can never have too much, but we're going to focus here, my friends.

(00:12)
According to the Society for Human Resource Management, the majority of working Americans indicate that the personalization of seminars and webinars on investing basics in financial planning is important to them. And in that same survey, my friends, they add, "Employers would be wise to add or expand desirable benefits like financial wellness to attract and retain talent. In other words, companies need to step it up if they want to get the best people on their team, and of course, keep those people. Financial wellness strategies is the solution. We provide the top of the line financial wellness programs for employees to create financial grownups who focus on their jobs because they know they're in control of their personal finances. Learn more and get in touch at financialwellnessstrategies.com. That's financialwellnessstrategies.com. The time is now to invest in peace of mind."

(01:13)
Welcome my friends to a new episode of the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I am your host, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. This week we are going to talk about not just our relationship with money, but relationships and money. Sometimes we agree and have the same money values as the people we love most in this world, but what about when we don't? Our guest this week is Certified Financial Planner, Eric Roberge. His company has an awesome name, Beyond Your Hammock. He also hosts a podcast with his wife called Beyond Finances. So before we get to our interview as we do every week, I'm going to share a quote to get us thinking. Now, this one is from the model and TV host, Heidi Klum. Here's the quote, "What are you going to do if you have all the money in the world and all the things that you wanted to achieve in your business and you have no one to share it with? You come home alone at the end of the day, and then what?" And that's exactly it. I mean, you have all the stuff, but if there's no one there, then what?

(02:28)
Just think about it. And the reason I picked that quote, by the way, is because sometimes we have to make money compromises in order to maintain relationships. And those relationships, even though in some ways they can be costly, can also be priceless. But the question is, where do you draw that line? Well, we're going to go there in this episode, and our guest has some really great things that we can consider and some interesting strategies. In our interview Eric Roberge shares his insights on how to handle it when someone you love has different money values, and it impacts your life, not just their life, your life solo and your life together with them. For example, giving gifts to your child that you aren't so sure you want them to have, sometimes in secret.

(03:12)
Also, what if your spouse just isn't the financial grownup you expect them to be? How can you still preserve that relationship? Will it ruin the relationship? Do you just turn a blind eye if say their spending is more than you think they should be spending, but it's not going to actually truly sink your family finances? How much should you bend before you snap? Here is Eric Roberge.

(03:41)
Eric Roberge, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Eric Roberge (03:45):

Happy to be here, Bobbi. Talking about finances in the morning is exactly where I want to be.

Bobbi Rebell (03:49):

Always. Well, you talk about it all the time in fact, because not only do you have your own financial advisory business, which is Beyond Your Hammock, you also talk about money pretty much all the time with your business partner and wife, Kali, on Beyond Finances, which is your podcast. Let's talk about money and relationships. You work with your wife, Kali, not only on your business, but also co-hosting that podcast that I adore. What's it like to work together? Do you have any tips for when couples work together, both in the same business, which you do, two businesses together basically. And also with the pandemic, a lot of people worked from home and are still working from home, different businesses, but still together all the time.

Eric Roberge (04:32):

It's an interesting topic. I actually was just reading in Financial Planning magazine about an article that was talking about various couples in the industry that work together. And when I was reading it, I was nodding my head because a lot of people were saying, "You all need to have very specific lanes. You can't be doing the same thing. You can't be crossing over, because that's when arguments start to happen. You each have your own autonomy, you do your stuff and you connect at the end and make sure that communication stays current." That's the number one key there.

Bobbi Rebell (05:04):

Yeah, you're always emphasizing communication when it comes to money and relationships. But what if you're communicating but you're still disagreeing, especially when it comes to the larger family ecosystem. So it might be that you and your wife are in alignment with money, how you want to communicate money values to your child, but maybe another relative has different ideas. Sometimes, not that this ever happens in my family or yours, but sometimes a grandparent, an aunt, really wants to be that special one that gives us extra presents and stuff. How do you handle that, especially if it's not what you want them to be doing?

Eric Roberge (05:40):

Theoretically, we may have dealt with certain things like that in the family. It's really important to connect with your child on this. And again, I don't know how old they are in this stage. If they're one year old, we have an 18 month old, it's going to be tough. But if they're five, if they're 10, if they're 15, they're going to be able to listen and engage in a conversation. And so asking them what their experience is about whatever, about grandpa spoiling you, or about buying you all the things, how does that feel to you is a really important place to ground yourself in their reality. Because they're like, "oh, I love it, I love it's the greatest thing." You have to walk on eggshells a bit, I think, to make sure that you're not ruining their good time because you feel like your value isn't aligned with your father's value.

Bobbi Rebell (06:31):

Well, what's the difference then? And this is something for parents as well to figure out. What's the difference between generosity and spoiling a child?

Eric Roberge (06:42):

That's where this perspective comes in, because I might think it's spoiling. Clearly my father, I'm just using him as an example, he's not necessarily the spoiler, might not think so. But you can't control them and vice versa. Yet it's your child, so you have a bigger responsibility to have some sort of control over the situation.

Bobbi Rebell (07:05):

You have a financial advisory practice. What are some of the common things that people come in and they're stressed out about it when it comes to their relationships and money?

Eric Roberge (07:13):

Well, a lot. Recently, and in the beginning of 2023, it was banking. "Oh my God, is my savings account safe at the bank that I bank at?" Because everybody's failing it seems like. So understanding where your money is and whether it's covered or not under FDIC insurance, under SIPC insurance is really one that is front and center right now. Now, bigger picture, I think it's about, and my clients are all in their thirties and their forties, they may create money so they can spend a lot, but they also have to be responsible for tomorrow. So it's the delicate line between engaging in today and enjoying yourself and realizing the fruits of your labor, but also being responsible in saving for tomorrow. That line is where everybody is straddling.

Bobbi Rebell (07:58):

You wrote a book recently with your wife about optimizing your finances. Tell us about that. What are some ways that we can optimize our finances?

Eric Roberge (08:06):

The ebook is on beyondyourhammock.com. You can download that for free. It's not the basics. People we talk to have gotten the basics. They understand their budget, they know that they shouldn't overspend, they save in their 401(k), but it's taking it to the next level, it's doing it on a more sophisticated tax advantageous basis. It's understanding how to leave your money invested while still benefiting from and accessing it through a line of credit that you could put up against your investment account. It's using the right mix of Roth versus traditional 401(k)s, and maybe even after tax 401(k)s and doing a mega backdoor Roth conversion. So it gets very detailed. And I know that we don't want to go all the way down there right now, but we're talking about the optimization of these various areas where from a baseline perspective, you might have a handle on it, but are you doing as best as you possibly could in these areas? Maybe not.

Bobbi Rebell (09:07):

So in other words, going from good enough to optimizing. Back to the idea of relationships and money, what do you do when you have clients who come in and they really have very different goals, very different ideas about what they want to do with their money. How do you help them come together and have that harmony, I guess, when it comes to their money?

Eric Roberge (09:26):

I think one word there is values. One of the things that Kali and I often talk about is having your own personal values. Everybody has their own personal values, they don't have to give their personal values up because they got married. And they're usually going to be a different set of personal values, so getting your top five personal values and then having your spouse get theirs and understanding what they both are. Then the next layer is what are the family's values? And the family's values don't have to be the same as your personal values. They might rhyme, but they don't have to be the same. And therefore what you do as a family can be family oriented and then you could still have your own track to do things to engage yourself in what you really desire personally. And neither of them are going to say, now I don't like my family because I'm doing my personal thing. But it's really important to understand that there can be two different sets.

Bobbi Rebell (10:22):

So how does that actually play out? Give me an example without dishing on any specific clients.

Eric Roberge (10:27):

Well, I think one of the biggest things, and this is research is saying this a lot, is people argue about money and they get divorced about money, but the argument is usually about spending. And there's typically one spouse who is more freewheeling and spends more than the other. That doesn't mean there have to be extremes, but that's the difference. And so if one spouse is out there just spending on a whim and the other spouse is saying that they're not saving enough, there's going to be a conflict right there. And so there can be balance. Bring that back to what you value. Well, this spouse might value freedom in general, and the freedom to spend because they make the money is really important to them to just say don't spend, squashes that. But they could spend less. They could spend more specifically on things that really make sense for them and free up cash to save and help the other spouse as well.

Bobbi Rebell (11:25):

So maybe they're spending as a way to kind of compensate for them wanting to feel like they have control and maybe that the other person isn't controlling them. So there's really a whole psychology going on here.

Eric Roberge (11:37):

That's really a good point. Obviously I'm not a psychologist and I don't know that industry, but having conversations hundreds of times every year with clients that are mostly married clients, you understand the dynamics of the individual sets of people. And it's really important just to listen and to sometimes make sure that the communication from one to the other is landing, reiterating what they said to the other spouse. So the other spouse hears it from me and maybe hears it differently even though I'm saying the same thing. And once that lands and they can say, oh, that makes sense to me, now I'm more open to hearing a different path than the one that I thought we had to follow because I had this value and going to stick to it.

Bobbi Rebell (12:22):

It's interesting because even though you're there to manage their money, but you're also there to figure out what's going on and to find a way for them to come together as a couple to make these decisions, you could also then look to the person who is upset about the spending and say, well, what is it about this spending that's upsetting you?

Eric Roberge (12:40):

Yes, right. They could say, "Well, I want to save more." "Why do you want to save more?" "Well, I just don't want to not have money when I retire." What is that coming from? "Well, my grandfather ..." he could go on and on and on, and you realize that it's the money mindset that each individual brings to the relationship that stems from when you were little, like four or five years old. And you're fearing the experiences back then and each of you has a different one, so there's a reason for it. No one's trying to do bad to the other, it's just that it's ingrained in you and you have to acknowledge that.

Bobbi Rebell (13:19):

Yeah, I feel like if a lot of couples acknowledge this, and it's interesting because usually people on the surface will say that the money stress comes from lack of money, but you say it's actually the spending is the bigger issue. I find that fascinating.

Eric Roberge (13:32):

I just picture as a knob, once you get past a certain level of income, it becomes less about needs and more about choice. And that's a really great place to be. And so you can choose to spend everywhere or you can choose to spend really a lot on very focused areas, which means that the stuff that you don't spend on anymore, the frivolous things that you go to the mall and you buy $300 worth of things, feels like $300,000 sometimes, and you don't use those things, you put them in the closet. Don't do that anymore, because you don't get any value from that. But the vacation that you took that you ended up going to the five star hotel for the top line hotel and you really loved that and your whole family just came out just glowing. Don't cut that back. So, it's those types of conversations.

Bobbi Rebell (14:25):

And we hear so many stories. It's a stereotype, but a stereotype for a reason of one spouse shopping and then literally hiding the items or taking the tags off and making it look like they weren't new. So it's almost like they're cheating on them in some way, they're hiding something and being untruthful with their spouse. Have you ever dealt with that kind of, I guess you call it, is that financial infidelity to some degree?

Eric Roberge (14:47):

It is. That's what it's called. Yeah. Actually, Kali and I just talked about this on one of our podcasts, money in relationships, and she was saying it's really important to not hide those things. You can have your own bank accounts and you have your own credit cards, but if the other person doesn't know about those accounts and cards, maybe think about why that is. The lack of awareness from one spouse to the other could just lead you down a path that you don't want to get into and someone could get in trouble in the end.

Bobbi Rebell (15:13):

The final thing I did want to touch on that you actually brought up before we came on, was the idea of everything sort of being fair and equal. Everyone has this vision of things being 50-50 in a marriage. Do we need to just let go of that in a marriage, I should say, in a relationship, in any partnership. Do we need to let go of the idea that we want at least 50-50? Because sometimes it's just not.

Eric Roberge (15:33):

I don't like the idea of 50-50. I never like the idea of work-life balance being 50% work and 50% personal. I think you all have your own equilibrium and it's going to be different for everybody. So, if one person is really good with numbers and they like the engaging in spreadsheets, then maybe they are the budgeter. Maybe they help with the budget, the other person doesn't. But just because the other person isn't budgeting and you are, you're spending a lot of your time on the budgeting, doesn't mean that it's out of balance, it just means that the other person who's not budgeting needs to be doing something else. What are they good at? Are they good at scheduling conversations? Are they good at bigger picture conversations about long-term goals? And so you just find where you're good.

(16:18)
And a lot of times in financial conversations, even with both spouses involved, you still don't have a hole. Everybody's not super knowledgeable about finance and that's where a certified financial planner can be really important to fill the holes to make sure that what you're talking about is fact and not fiction. And then once you have those facts down, you can make better choices.

Bobbi Rebell (16:42):

I could not agree more. As a certified financial planner, I know you and I probably agree that there's a lot of influencers out there who can be wonderful for certain things of course, but they should never be mistaken for a certified financial planner and the expertise that they bring. So, thank you so much. Where can we learn more about you and your wife and your podcast and your business and your book and all the things? You're really busy, Eric.

Eric Roberge (17:04):

Yeah, we like to be that way. You can go to our brand new website which we relaunched, beyondyourhammock.com. You can get the free download there, Five Ways to Optimize Your Finances. You can find our podcast there too, or anywhere you listen to podcasts, Beyond Finances. Feel free to listen because it's a very intimate conversation between my wife and I about things that we deal with personally, but also that I see amongst all of my clients every day.

Bobbi Rebell (17:30):

We all want to live our best financial grown up lives. One way to do that is to know that the people that we care about are also in a good place when it comes to their money. That might mean our kids, our grandkids, and yes, even our friends. But how? I mean, it's kind of awkward. You see them struggling, pretending to know more than they do, or just making bad money decisions, but you don't know what to say. And even if you say something supportive, then what?

(18:00)
That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups. In Launching Financial Grownups, I share the tools and strategies so you know what to say to take the pressure off and give those you love the confidence they need. It's all about giving those we care about the right amount of help at the right time, so they can not only learn what they need to know about being financial grownups, but also be confident that they can do it and that you'll be there to cheer them on. Pick up a copy of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. I promise you'll be so happy that you did.

(18:37)
Great tips in there from Eric for those of us looking to improve our financial wellness and make peace with things that we can't control in our lives, and then maintain the relationships of those that we really care about. And just finding ways to separate our feelings for our loved ones from our feelings about their attitudes towards money. Sometimes they're things that you just can't control and you have to make peace with, and sometimes you're not going to. It's a fine line.

(19:03)
Let's get to this week's extra credit assignment. Now, I want everyone to check out my friend, David Bach's book, Smart Couples Finish Rich. He put out an updated version in 2018, so make sure to get that version. We're going to leave a link in the show notes, it is a great read. Wherever you are in your relationship, whether you're newlyweds or dating or you're enjoying your retirement together after many years together. David, by the way, incredibly generous, he even wrote the foreword to my book, Launching Financial Grownups.

(19:34)
Now, if you enjoy his book, which I know you will, so if you enjoy Smart Couples Finish Rich, make sure to follow David on Instagram. His handle is David L. Bach. D-A-V-I-D, L, B-A-C-H. And make sure to DM him and tell him that Bobbi sent you. He will get a kick out of it, trust me. He's off in Italy living his best financial grownup life. And a reminder by the way, that show notes can always be found on my personal website, bobbirebell.com, complete with links to everything relevant that I mentioned in the show, like David's book, and a free transcript. I will be following up on some of the extra credit assignments in my newsletter, so get on that list. It is at bobbirebell.substack.com, or just click on the link in the show notes or on my website, my personal website, or also my business website, Financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be sure to add Eric's podcast, Beyond Finances, to your favorite podcast list. Big thanks of course to Eric Roberge for helping us financial grownups invest in peace of mind.

(20:39)
Wellness for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support and show notes by Ali Burban, artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned on the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial grownup lives. There is a link in the show notes, but you can also sign up by going to bobbirebell.com or financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be a friend, share the podcast with your friends and anyone you think might like it by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. While you're there, follow me. If you DM me that you listen to the podcast, I will follow you back. You can also leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And please support our [inaudible 00:21:44] shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

(21:49)
Finally, my grownup friends, don't forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks everyone.

 
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