Dreaming Big and Winning with Entrepreneur Liz Elting

Episode Description: The co-founder TransPerfect shares her sometimes-controversial strategies for career success from her time building a billion-dollar company- including what the next generation needs to tell their parents. Plus her family song that still helps motivate her today.

Video Highlight:

Liz Elting’s Bio:Liz Elting, Founder and CEO of the Elizabeth Elting Foundation, is an entrepreneur, business leader, linguaphile, philanthropist, feminist, and mother. After living, studying, and working in five countries across the globe, Liz founded TransPerfect out of an NYU dorm room in 1992 and served as Co-CEO until 2018. TransPerfect is the world's largest language solutions company, with over $1.1 billion in revenue and offices in more than 100 cities worldwide. Liz received the 2019 Charles Waldo Haskins Award for business and public service from NYU’s Stern School of Business, the American Heart Association’s 2020 Health Equity Leadership Award, the Alliance of Women Entrepreneurs’ 2021 Vertex Award for changing the face and direction of women’s high-growth entrepreneurship, the American Heart Association’s 2022 Woman Changing the World Award, and Trinity College’s 2022 Kathleen O’Connor Boelhouwer ’85 Alumni Initiative Award. Liz has been recognized as a NOW Woman of Power & Influence, American Express' and Entrepreneur magazine's Woman of the Year, and one of Forbes’ Richest Self-Made Women every year since the list’s inception. Elting is the author of the upcoming book, Dream Big and Win: Translating Passion into Purpose and Creating a Billion-Dollar Business.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Liz's Website

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Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell Being a financial grownup is hard- That’s why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PwC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative impact on their overall health and wellbeing. Money stress is expensive for companies- workers are less productive, and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about finances. As if health care costs weren’t already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control their finances. Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real life money stuff.

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”.

It's time for your company to invest in peace of mind with Financial Wellness Strategies. Get in touch at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com.

Welcome my friends to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. I am on a mission to take our money-related stress levels down- I do this not only hopefully with this podcast but also with my company Financial Wellness Strategies which brings financial wellness programs and workshops to companies.

We start every episode off with a quote and this one comes from this week’s guest: Liz Elting. Co-founder of the billion dollar company Transperfect. Her new book Dream Big and Win Translating Passion into Purpose and Creating a billion dollar business has just been released. It features quotes from lots of luminaries but my favorite luminary is Liz herself who says quote:

“Work today like no one else will So you can live and give tomorrow like no one else can”

And when you not only listen to our interview but also read her book you will see the drive and total devotion that she put into her work for years and years to make her company a billion dollar company.

A little background because this is an unusual interview. Liz and I have been friends for about 6 years and full disclosure I have felt very close to the evolution of this book. Even the idea to write a book was something we were talking about years ago. And so when it finally arrived for me to read a preview copy a few weeks ago I was surprised that I was surprised at so much of it. She had a lot of nuances she had to manage- including a very public fallout with her ex partner and ex fiance that played out in the gossip columns. They were brutal to her. And knowing stuff she still can’t disclose publicly- all I can say is I would hope that as a journalist, I would have hoped journalists would be better about fact checking. And yes- I am proudly biased on this matter.

But I also was surprised at how much I personally learned that I am already putting to use as an entrepreneur- and someone who worries about how the things I do impact my family.

Make sure to listen to the end- Liz says she can’t sing but well.. You’ll see.

Here is my friend, Liz Elting, author of Dream Big and Win.

Liz Elting, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Liz Elting

Thank you so much, Bobbi. It's so great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell

Congratulations on your book, Dream Big and Win. It's probably already a bestseller by the time this interview comes out. And I got an early sneak peek and thank you so much for writing this book for all of us that can benefit from your advice. And thank you also for thanking me, by the way, in the acknowledgments at the end. For everyone that doesn't know, we are friends, quote, in real life. And I've been hearing about the book for a long time

but tell our audience more about how this book came about and what your message is to the people that read it.

Liz Elting (00:58.542)

Sure, it's the book I wish I had when I was starting off in my 20s or even in my 30s, 40s, 50s, when I was an entrepreneur or just when I was in business. So I wished I had it. I couldn't find anything like it. And it's really to serve as a roadmap, a guide, a mentor for other women like me or people like me. And it's a-

I think it's a pretty fast read. I really open up and talk about all the things I learned along the way, what I did right, and the many things I did wrong. And I'm really trying to send the message, if I can do it, you can too, and share a lot of hopefully valuable lessons in the process.

Bobbi Rebell (01:47.172)

you are very vulnerable in the book. I mean, not only did you take us back to those days where you were in the dorm room with your ex-boyfriend now, he was your boyfriend at the time, you couldn't even, you literally arranged, you've somehow finagled, this is truly creative, to not pay the rent till the end of the year and you were making 300 plus calls a day, no social life except for I guess each other. So you're very vulnerable about that. You're also very open about the fact

and the then boyfriend, Phil, who is named in the book, obviously, did not end on good terms and certainly in terms of the business. It was a very public dispute. And what I love about this is you talk about your family as a support. Can you talk a little bit about how your family was there as a working wife and mother, how they were there for you? Because I think a lot of people wonder, is it okay to work so hard as an entrepreneur when you do have family responsibilities?

Liz Elting (02:45.546)

Yes, absolutely. And you're right, just my business partner. Full disclosure, he was my fiancee. We broke up, but we continued with the business for 20 more years after we broke up. So that was quite crazy. But anyway, back to your question. Yes, and I think we all go through this. It is so hard to be a working mom. It's challenging for all of us. Arianna Huffington has a great quote that I include in the book, which is, being a working mom is like feeling guilt on steroids. You know, it's challenging, it's challenging, but it's incredibly rewarding. And I think it's a case of just having a lot of having a lot of balls in the air, making sure none of the glass ones drop. And that's kind of another way I heard it put. And I think we all can relate to it if we work and we're moms, but the great thing is,even though it was so challenging along the way, and there were times when I was at home and I felt like I should be at work, and times when I was at work and I felt like I should be at home. I learned over the years, and this is one of the lessons, to compartmentalize. And when I was at work, I was all in and intense, and all about results, and then walked out the door at the end of the day at six, 6.30, and then all in as far as being at home and really...getting off the devices and not going back on until the end of the night. But related to my family, I'm so sorry. Back to that question, they've been amazing. My husband has been so incredibly supportive. My boys, I have two boys. They've been great. And one of them said to me when I used to walk him to school every day, and he'd say, mom, you know.me to school and I love that you do that and then we get there and I see all these moms in their workout clothes or going to breakfast after but I see you in your suit and your heels and I am so proud of you and I want to marry someone like you who has a career so that meant so incredibly much to me and I'm sure you know other moms can relate to that.

Bobbi Rebell (05:03.668)

At one point in the book, as I said, you're very vulnerable and honest and you talk about the fact that you had not signed a partnership agreement and there was litigation in recent years which led to the sale of the company to your ex-fiance and it was quite public. There was a lot of not nice things written about you in the gossip columns here in New York and it left you in tears and you came home one day crying. Tell me more about what happened that day because it's really such a heartwarming story when you talk about family support for a working mom and an entrepreneur and the toll that it takes on you and the support that's required.

Liz Elting (05:42.402)

Thank you. Yes, that was another really meaningful moment for me. that was an incredibly meaningful moment for me. I came home from work, and this was in the beginning of my litigation. I had over four years of litigation with my ex-business partner. And it was a scorched earth situation. It was very bad, very public litigation, as you said. I came home in tears. And my son was there, and he said to me, mom, what's wrong? What's going on? And I just said, oh, just a horrible day at work. you know, bad things are going on. And he said, oh, okay. And then he left her and he said, I'll be back soon. And then he said, he came back in about maybe 10, 15 minutes. He said, mom, check your emails. And it turned out he had written me this beautiful email saying, Mom, I am so sorry for what you're going through. I know how incredibly tough it is, but when this happens, you know, just remember, you know, when you have a bad day, you know, call your...a member of your family, call a friend, take a deep breath, listen to music you like. And he had this list of suggestions, sorry, the title of the email was Suggestions, and these were all the different suggestions. And then he kind of closed it with, and above all, know that your family is there for you, and we support you every step of the way, especially me. And it was just the sweetest thing, and it just made me feel like.I'll get through this because I have this amazing family and they understand

Bobbi Rebell (07:30.072)

One thing, and by the way, I've met them, they're wonderful. Family support is so important, and it's important to strike the right balance. I'm gonna pivot a little bit here. In the book, you also talk about this trend towards what I would call helicopter, well, many people call helicopter parenting. I have definitely been guilty of it myself. You and I have talked about this on our walks in Central Park. As a leader, an entrepreneur, and businesswoman, you have seen the other side of helicopter parenting. Tell me more about your experiences because in the later years at TransPerfect, you did have some experiences where parents got in the way and you wanted to hire somebody and it kind of backfired because of this.

Liz Elting (08:10.99)

That's right. And I think we all have a tendency to do it. We want the best for our kids and we think we need to show them the way. But there comes a time, and I've tried to make that time when my kids go off to college, that I will step back. There are times when we brought people in for interviews and we had some interesting situations. One person came in and literally in the lobby with them was their mother. Because I saw the employee, and then I saw this older adult with that employee. And I asked someone who's that, and I think it was our receptionist, that's her mother. not good. She basically sat there through the course of the interview and then left. But that kind of sent the wrong message initially in that interview. And then another time after.

I had interviewed someone and decided he was not the right fit for the job. His dad called up and complained and said, why did my son not get the job? And so yeah, we had some memorable situations. And obviously by the time your kids are in full-on career mode, we need to stay away, right? We all need to stay away as much as hard as it is for us.

Bobbi Rebell (09:27.923)

Yes. So my friends, this is not the way to launch a fine. These are launching financial grown-up don'ts, right? So exactly. And I want to go through one of the do’s then. So one of the do’s that you say in terms of quiet quitting we hear about a lot is to kind of you give people sort of a pep talk in your book and you say one of the quotes in the book that it really meant a lot to me is, You say “circumstances are temporary, but your attitude is permanent. Quiet quitting sets an early precedent within yourself. Don't succumb to it.” I love that advice for young people. I mean, you might not feel great about a job now, but it's also a reflection on you. The job that you do and the reputation that you have is gonna carry on.

Liz Elting (10:12.622)

You're right. As long as you're in that job and at that company, you should be giving it your all. Because yes, it's a reflection on you. What you put in is a reflection on you. Now, of course, if it's not going well, if you don't like what you're doing, if you have issues with your boss, you should definitely approach the appropriate person at the company and try to change it. Whether it's your boss, whether it's HR, because it's about your boss or whatever it is. If you have issues with either your know, as I said, your position, your boss, try to change it or how much you're being paid. Yes, bring it to them. But then, and then if you can't change the situation, move on. But as long as you're there, give it your all because it's so important for you, your reputation, and it's just the right thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell (11:02.312)

I love that. I mean, it's really like passive aggressive. Like if you're gonna be there, be there. If you're not gonna be there, then just leave. If it's really that bad. But also remember your responsibilities to yourself and your family. You may need the income. So sometimes you have to kind of deal with a situation that's not optimal. That's called being a grownup. All right, Liz, before I let you leave, we talked so much about, you talk a lot about family support and how important it is. We talked about your kids and your husband. I wanna go back to your family that you grew up with, your sister, your father, your mother. I love your family song so I'm going to put you on the spot. Your father had a family song. I want to hear the family song and all the things that go with it because there was also, I think there was like a bedtime thing. We don't have that much time but give me the Elton family song.

Liz Elting

Well, but Bobbi, I know you read the book, so I can just tell people, give a very short anecdote here, and this is the thing with me and singing. And that's why I think it's very interesting that Bobbi just asked me to do this, because when I was in sixth grade, I loved singing. It was one of my passions. There I was in a music class, and it was a double music class. There were about 60 of us, and we were singing one of my favorite songs. It was called...Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, and I was loving it. We were all there, and the music teacher started coming around and standing in front of each of us and listening one by one, one by one, one by one. I remember, I remember exactly where I was standing. She got to me, and she said, ah, this is it. And I thought, oh my goodness. That's what I'm thinking. I'm going to get to do a solo. And she said, this is the problem. You are the problem. And she said, I'm sorry, but you're off key. You're off pitch. You're going to have to stay down in the classroom downstairs, every music class, till the end of the year, because you're kind of messing up this choir. So that was humiliating. That was the worst. So anyway, I think it's very funny that you just asked me to sing this song, Bobbi, but I will say the lyrics at least because you do not want to hear me sing. Nobody wants to hear me sing.

Bobbi Rebell

You can melodically say the lyrics.

Liz Elting

Okay, so a song and we had a few pets. So we started with one version and as we had more pets, we added, we changed the words, but We are the Eltings, the Jolly Eltings, and we sing in the morning and the night. Oh, there's Mommy and Daddy, Lynn, Liz and Lolly, and the gerbils and the fish all right. Sleep tight, my darling Liz, good, sleep, sorry. Can I do this one again? Okay. One other song that was sung to me when I went to bed is, good night, little Liz, good night. Sleep tight, my darling Liz, sleep tight. May you slumber all night through and may your dreams spring magic too. Good night, little Liz, good night. So that was fun.

Bobbi Rebell (14:28.476)

Yes, of course.

Bobbi Rebell (14:50.536)

Family support is everything and you received it as a child and you give it as a wife and mother and I'm so proud to be your friend. Thank you so much for this interview, Liz.

Liz Elting

Oh, I'm so proud to have you as a friend. Thank you so much for everything, Bobbi, and I've loved this interview.

Bobbi Rebell

We know your book, Dream Big and Win, is everywhere, so people should pick it up immediately, because we need to make sure Liz is at the top of the bestseller list, everyone. Where can people be in touch and learn more about you? What are your social media handles?

Liz Elting

Sure. So @Liz Elting is basically the handle and I'm on all the platforms. And yes, that would be wonderful if people would buy Dream Big and Win. I would be so appreciative.

Bobbi Rebell

Well, we appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Liz Elting

Okay, thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell

We all want to live our best financial grownup lives and one way to do that is to know that the people we care about are also in a good place when it comes to their money. That might mean our kids, our grandkids and yes- even our friends. But how. Its’ awkward. You see them struggling- pretending to know more than they do- or making bad money decisions but don’t know what to say- and even if you say something supportive- then what? That’s why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups. In Launching Financial Grownups I share the tools and strategies so you know what to say to take the pressure off and give those you love the confidence they need. It's about giving those we care about the right amount of help, at the right time- so they can not only learn what they need to know about being financial grownups- but also be confident they can do it- and that you will be there to cheer them on. Pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups - I promise you will be so happy you did.

Did your family have a family song? Shockingly mine did not. But you probably had some kind of ritual that your parents did with you.. So for our extra credit assignment this week let’s re-connect with family and remember those growing up rituals that we did when we were young and maybe come up with or just appreciate the ones we are doing with our family now that bond us together.

DM me on instagram and share your family rituals. And if you are not already please join me on substack and bobbirebell.substack.com. It is free and I am sharing some of my best money tips so we can all live our best financial grownup lives.

It was so special to have my friend Liz on this episode. Make sure to pick up your copy of Dream Big and Win- the value add to your life will be priceless. I promise.

I have some news to share on our next episode so please be sure to tune in.

In the meantime thank you to Liz Elting for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Wellness for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support, and show notes by Alliee Borbon. Artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial lives. There is a link in the show notes

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanSeptember 26, 2023Template

Creative ways to get paid for grownups with Jen Glantz

Episode Description: Learn specific ways to tap into your creativity and unique skills to be a financial grownup with Bridesmaid for Hire entrepreneur and author Jen Glantz.

Jen Glantz’s Bio: Jen Glantz is the founder of Bridesmaid for Hire, the world’s first service where strangers can hire a professional bridesmaid. She’s the author of three best-selling books, All My Friends are Engaged, Finally the Bride, and Always a Bridesmaid for Hire, published by Simon and Schuster. She’s also the creator of The Newlywed Card Game and The First Years of Marriage.Jen has appeared on over 500 media outlets as a guest on shows such as The Today Show, Good Morning America, and Inside Edition. Jen eats pizza (almost every day), lived in new cities every single month for two-years, and adores daily adventures in Brooklyn with her dog, Goofy, and her husband, Adam, who she met after going on 14-first-dates in just one month.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Jen Glantz!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

The other day I was watching our local news and there was a story that came on about using confetti- yes confetti- to de-stress. And I have to admit it was pretty appealing. By the way it's called the confetti project if you want to look it up. But guess what is the top thing that we stress about. Ok well given that you are listening to this you know the answer. It is money. According to the American Psychological Association, money continues to be the top source of stress for Americans. That’s where Financial Wellness Strategies comes in. We provide educational resources for companies employees to balance financial wealth with mental health. Financial literacy is important but we need to go beyond academics and learn how it all actually fits into our real lives- and what we want to accomplish with our hard earned money. Learn more about how you and your company can invest in peace of mind at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com

Welcome to the Wellness for financial grownups podcast. I am your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell- author of How to be a Financial Grownup and Launching Financial Grownups.

A big part of being a financial grownup is finding ways to amplify your income. Most of us have day jobs but who doesn’t like a little icing on the income cake right? That’s where this week’s guest comes in.

But before we get to her- our quote.

It comes from next week’s guest- how is that for a tease. Liz Elting whose book Dream Big and Win is coming out latest this month. This is something that really is motivating me this fall and I hope it will do the same for you.

She says in the book quote: “A goal is a dream with a deadline.”

I love that because we all have dreams but without the structure of a deadline it is tough to get things done. So don’t just dream- set some deadlines for yourself. And if you really want to get it done- tell someone. I find when I have an accountability partner it really helps.

Now to our guest: Jen Glantz is the founder of bridesmaid for hire- she basically took something she was doing for free and monetized it into a business. Genius. She also has written three books and runs a consulting company along with a weekly newsletter I personally read religiously called Monday pick me up and along the way got married and had a baby. She’s busy and we are in for a treat because she not only tells us how she is doing all that- she tells us how we can monetize what we already love doing. And who doesn’t love doing that. Here is the fantastic Jen Glantz.

Jen Glantz, you are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Glantz:

Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I wanted to have you on. You're the founder of Bridesmaid for Hire, but you are so much more. We're gonna be talking about creative ways to make money as a grownup, but I want to give our listeners a little more context because you do a lot and you have some amazing perspectives basically based on your incredible life experience, which has been quirky and awesome. So tell us a little bit more.

Jen Glantz:

So I started off as a writer. I was a copywriter at a tech startup. I was a blogger. I was writing books. And then all of a sudden, I was always a bridesmaid for my friends. And while that was really fun, it was super expensive. And it was a thankless job. What happened was distant friends started asking me to be their bridesmaid. And when that happened, I thought to myself, OK, if I could do this for somebody I hardly know, why not do it for strangers? I posted an ad on Craigslist offering my services to people I didn't know. I got hundreds of responses. And from the past nine years, my friends full-time job has been bridesmaid for hire. People hire me to be their bridesmaid.

Bobbi Rebell:

And by the way, so, because people already know I'm fascinated by this, what are the duties of a bridesmaid that are frankly worth paying for? And what advice do you have for the unpaid bridesmaids out there who aren't gonna ask for money, but just so that they know what they're getting into?

Jen Glantz:

When you are a bridesmaid, you are doing so much work. Everything from planning a bachelorette party, picking out decorations, sourcing gifts, planning travel, getting your bridesmaid dressed. You are doing so many things. Plus, you are spending quality time listening to the problems that the couple has, helping them out, and so much more. It's a job that really depends on the person getting married and their expectations of you. My biggest piece of advice is transparency. Know upfront what is required of you, both financially and your time, before you ever say yes to being a bridesmaid.

Bobbi Rebell:

so much. I never thought about that. You're a therapist, you're a stylist, you're an event planner, you're an organizer. I mean, it's a lot. But you so smartly use that to find that's a creative way to earn money. You're getting paid for something that you were doing that you weren't getting paid for. So on that note, we're going to switch gears. You have some tips for us of ways that people can sort of leverage what they're maybe already doing or would enjoy doing or can do because of their skill set and get paid.

Jen Glantz:

You know, we're so held back by our resume. We think just because we have work experience, that's all we can do. But the truth is you can make money doing so many things. There's three things you should start off doing. Number one, think about what people in your life ask you for the most. Maybe people ask you for advice, for organization, for tips, for cooking the meals, whatever it is. Think about what people ask you for and see if there's a surface you can monetize to other people who need that and don't know you. Next, think about skills from your job that you use every now and then, those on a freelance basis, a side hustle basis, and get paid to do that. Let's say you are really good at proofreading emails or you're somebody who comes up with really cool team building events, maybe you can get hired to do that as a consultant. And third, simply think about the things you enjoy and see if you can monetize that. Maybe you're somebody who loves to share your stuff, you could actually get paid to rent anything that you own from your car to your closet for storage space There's so many different opportunities to make money from skills, interests, hobbies, or just things you generally have or enjoy.

Bobbi Rebell:

Besides the bridesmaid idea, what has been sort of the most creative thing that you have ever heard of?

Jen Glantz:

Oh my goodness, I've heard of people who charge for professional snuggling so they'll snuggle with you. I've heard people who are professional mermaids and get paid to show up and perform as a mermaid. I mean, there are so many people with what we call odd jobs who just found something interesting or unique about them and turned it into a service. And you might think nobody wants it. Before you say that, test it out.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, let's switch gears. You are a new mom and you have advice for ways to... Well, basically we can learn from a lot of your mistakes, which I can't believe you have that many mistakes, Jen. But for parents, really of all ages, what are some of your money tips for them?

Jen Glantz:

You know, I was somebody who most of my 20s, I didn't care about personal finance and I made a lot of mistakes. And now I am addicted to figuring out how to hack my own finances. And I wanted to do the same for my child. The first thing I did was say, you know what? I don't want any gifts for her. I don't want clothes, I don't want toys, I don't want anything. If you wanna give us a gift, give us money. And what I did is I opened up a 529 savings plan for her where that money in there can go towards her college, her schooling, it could also go toward a retirement account later on and more. cash to open up a high yield savings account so that she can earn interest on that money. Through both of those things and other things as well, my goal is that by the time she's 18 she has over six figures in these accounts. I want to set her up for a great future and by doing that I'm saying you know what, no gifts except for money gifts and I plan to also contribute money to these accounts throughout the years as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

So then do you have tips for, you're presumably buying all the things that people usually gift to parents. So do you have any tips for that and money saving ways in terms of all the stuff that parents buy and spend money on?

Jen Glantz:

Try not to buy stuff because your kids grow out of it very fast. There are so many different groups out there on Facebook, Nextdoor, other communities where people are happy to give away things for free because they grew out of it, they bought too much of it. You can find strollers, bassinets, clothing, and more. See what you can get for free or for resale because you will save so much money that way.

Bobbi Rebell:

I want to finally ask you about your monthly money practices. This is fascinating. Tell us more.

Jen Glantz:

I'm somebody that once I turned 30, I said, you know what? I want to make sure that finances are something I focus on a lot. So every single month I do an entire audit of my finances. I go through every single transaction on my credit card. I figure out exactly how much it cost me to live my life that month. And I make sure that it's a couple thousand dollars or a hundred dollars less than the month before. So I try to optimize my saving every month by cutting my spending every month. It's also interesting that my husband and I, we keep mostly our finances pretty separate. saves us a lot of conflict and a lot of just conversations that we don't want to have right now. So I have a budget for myself, I manage my money myself, and I think that's empowering especially as a woman to take control of your money and do these monthly audits. So many people are scared to look at their credit card statements and to figure out how much it costs them to live that month, but once you do that, you can know exactly what you want to change and it doesn't have to be drastic.

Bobbi Rebell:

How do you manage when your husband and you maybe disagree about financial priorities, especially with a growing family?

Jen Glantz:

So we have one account that is joint, that we use for our joint expenses, rent, things for the baby, but then we have our own account. And by doing that,

Bobbi Rebell:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Glantz:

we're able to say, okay, we can make our own decisions about what we wanna spend now. And in terms of retirement and future savings, we have the same values when it comes to money in terms of how we save and what our overall goals are, but we're not nitpicking exactly what the other person is spending on. So I think if you have the same overarching, high-level goals with your partner, that's a great place to start.

Bobbi Rebell:

One thing we talk about, Jen, as financial grownups is the different life stages and how our perspective changes with respect to money. So you've written three books. The first two were kind of about always being a bridesmaid and then you had one where you were finally the bride and now you're the mom. Tell us how your perspective on money has changed as your life has gone through these different milestone events.

Jen Glantz:

The first time it really changed was when I got laid off from my full-time job in 2015 and decided to become an entrepreneur. And it was during that time where I said, not only do you have to understand your cash flow, but also the cash flow of your business. And my goal was to never work for somebody else full-time. So what I did was I started to figure out, OK, how am I going to track my spending, my savings every month? And also, I am so big on passive income. That has been something that has benefited me through all different stages of life. First as an entrepreneur. Now as somebody who has a child. passive income streams allow me to make income while I sleep and there's simple ways to do that. Money in a CD, a high-deal savings account, figuring out a part of your business that you can make into a passive income source rather than requiring you to show up and do it. So that's really helped me through all stages be able to live a good life with my family and not work all of the time.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's so important to have that perspective, especially as we evolve, because it is hard to keep up. And you want to be able to have more time, especially when you get married and you have kids, and you maybe want to have more time away from the hustle and bustle. Although everyone does different things. And on that note, you talked about your business and passive income. Tell us more about your business and how people can learn more about you and be in touch.

Jen Glantz:

Absolutely, you can find me at bridesmaidforhire.com, jenglance.com. I have a Monday newsletter called Monday Pick Me Up and I'd love to say hello.

Bobbi Rebell:

And by the way, I am a big fan of Monday Pick Me Up. I do read it every Monday, and it really does give me a pick me up. I really LOVE it, and you have the cutest picture on it. So that's my tease. So everyone has to subscribe so that they can see the awesome picture on the newsletter.

Jen Glantz:

Thank you for having me. Yay!

Bobbi Rebell:

So your extra credit assignment is to ask the 5 people you interact with most outside of your immediate family, if there is something they think of you as the go-to person to do that thing. Just like Jen saw that with her bridesmaid duties, so many entrepreneurs have done that with everything from connecting like-minded friends for networking events to starting to sell simple baked goods that everyone could not get enough of at parties. I’m working on that too so if you have ideas for me- bring them on. DM me on instagram at bobbirebell1 and you can also connect with me by being on my substack newsletter- bobbirebell.substack.com. I’m in awe and so grateful to see the growth over there and love sharing my more personal stories to that community. Please join me if you have not already. Bobbirebell.substack.com. I’m going to make a big announcement there by the way- hopefully very soon.

And please go to my website financial wellness strategies- I hope to soon have my new Fall 2023 programs on there so I can help more members of this community be financial grownups.

Big thanks to my wonderful and very grownup guest Jen Glantz- who is so amazing helping us be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial lives. There is a link in the show notes but you can also sign up at bobbirebell.com or at financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be a friend- share the podcast with your friends by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on instagram at bobbirebell1. And while your there- follow me- and if you DM me that you listen to the podcast I will follow you back. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And finally my grownup friends, don’t forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks everyone.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanSeptember 19, 2023Template

Peer money pressure for kids with Fitmoney.com’s Jessica Pelletier

Episode Description:

Kids are heading back to school and facing lots of different social pressures tied to money. Jessica Pelletier shares her insights on how to give the next generation the best values and priorities to set them up for success as financial grownups

Jessica Pelletier’s Bio: Executive Director, FitMoney: FitMoney is a philanthropic nonprofit who provides free, unbiased financial literacy programs to help K-12 students develop life skills for a financially fit future.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Fitmoney.org

Follow Jessica Pelletier!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Being a financial grownup is hard- That’s why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PwC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative impact on their overall health and well-being. Money stress is expensive for companies- workers are less productive, and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about finances. As if health care costs weren’t already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control their finances. Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real life money stuff.

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”.

It's time for your company to invest in peace of mind with Financial Wellness Strategies. Get in touch at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com.

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I am your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups and the founder of Financial Wellness Strategies.

It’s been back-to-school time and many of us have either sent a kid back to school or are hearing a lot about it from friends and family. Life has become a lot more complicated for the next generation especially when it comes to money. We may not want to talk about it but kids are hearing about it and thanks to the internet and social media- often get info and advice that is not in line with what our values.

That’s where my guest comes in.

But first: this week’s quote. It is from famed investor Warren Buffett and very appropriate for the students getting back into their school routines: “The more you learn, the more you earn.”

This week’s guest is the executive director of non-profit financial education venture FitMoney- Jessica Pelletier.

In our conversation we discuss the challenges faced by kids today- some of which are not new but many of which - thanks to social media and all the technology kids have- can create very complicated situations - and conversations.

She shares some very solid and insightful advice that we can all take to heart. Here is Jessica Pellentier. Jessica Pelletier, you are a financial grownup. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.

Jessica Pelletier:

Bobbi , I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

You are the executive director of Fit Money, which is a nonprofit focused on educating kids and so much more. Briefly tell us about that.

Jessica Pelletier:

That's exactly right. We are a non-profit. We provide curriculum tools and resources and games for teachers, schools, and even now families to get engaged with their kids to teach them about money.

Bobbi Rebell:

And this is the perfect time to have you on because many of us have kids, grandkids, children of friends, children we just love and adore that went back to school. And it's a great time to be talking about kids' relationship with money, not just directly us teaching them lessons about money, but among their peers, because we don't always think about it, but there's a lot of money lessons happening in the classroom that aren't specifically labeled as money lessons, but they have to do with their peer relationships. What's your general take on how you manage kids, money, and their friends.

Jessica Pelletier:

I think the most important thing is what you just said. We need to realize that our kids, no matter how young they are, are listening and they already have a relationship with money. In my line of work, research shows that financial behaviors are really formed by age seven. And so I think that's kind of shocking for a lot of parents and aunts and uncles to hear because they think we really don't have a relationship with money until you have your first job. But that's just not true, like you say. They're watching mom and dad swipe their credit cards, order things on Amazon. They're watching stressful situations when you're having to make decisions about what you can and cannot buy. And even on your wants, we all seem to be kind of cutting back. And they're making assumptions on what it means and what is this thing called money that all of our adults are using today.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it gets very complicated because as they get older and they start to be more independent and start to do things with their friends and classmates, money can come into the picture in unexpected ways. For example, you may have a child that wants to be very generous and they wanna pay for all of their friends' stuff, of course, with your money. Let's say you've given them money. Let's say it's age appropriate and maybe they're in middle school or high school and they've got money on an app. They'll say, oh, I'm treating my friends. I want to be the giver. What do you think? What do you say to a kid? What's your take on that?

Jessica Pelletier:

yeah, I mean, look, it's a wonderful notion we love to say, pay it forward. And it doesn't have to just be with money. You can do yard work for a neighbor. You can do lemonade stands, you know, and donate what you've earned. I'm really amazed at our young people today at this volunteer-centric youth that we have, which is wonderful. You know, my... My nine-year-old is constantly talking about lemonade stands and where he's going to donate that money. But I do think that it's important for us to display our values at home. I think kids probably get that inclination maybe because they're seeing their parents or grandparents be that way. Maybe their parents are constantly picking up the tab at dinners. But you really need to watch what's happening because... As we say, perception is not always reality. I think with social media, we know that well enough now that what we're seeing is probably not what's going on behind the camera. And so families value money in a different way. Some really like experiences and vacations. Some like stuff, some like more expensive cars. And so it's really important to just talk about your values as a family and talk about what's important to you. Because I think the biggest problem today is people are still so afraid to talk about money.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's so true and it's awkward because you don't want to tell a child not to be generous, but yet they can't just constantly be treating the other kids or vice versa. Sometimes you have a situation where you have a kid who may or may not have more financial resources, but maybe has more on their app or whatever, who's treating your child constantly and the child doesn't really think that much about it. And that can be awkward too. How do you sort of manage, what do you say to the child in those situations?

Jessica Pelletier:

Again, I think it's just so important to be as transparent as possible. And, you know, I have a nine and a 12-year-old and I certainly have not taken out my mortgage statement to discuss exactly where every penny is going. But we do talk about it at the dinner table and we do talk about, you know, when things are going well at work and sometimes that's rewarded in the form of money, you know, increased money, sometimes not so well. We see a lot of people today really struggling with, you know, the way the economy is going. So I think as long as you're transparent and you're really watching what's happening, if your child is coming home with new things or they mentioned that they had the extra ice cream, where did that come from? And really just try to understand where they're placing their value. You don't want a child to place value on a person because they either have or don't have money. There are so many other things that obviously make a person valuable in your life. Again. the friendship, the camaraderie, the athletic ability, things like that we really wanna talk about and make sure that they don't just kind of align themselves with people that are perhaps maybe picking up the tab or they're getting friends because maybe they're being the generous ones.

Bobbi Rebell:

It is so complicated, right? And that's something that we'll continue on through life. So it's important to get to those values very early, as you say, and let them know that you don't have to treat everybody in order for them to be your friend. And if someone's treating you all the time, maybe you have to say, let me treat you back. Or maybe if you don't have the allowance money, whether your family has money or not, but you may have an allowance that's not the size that you can treat them or funds treat them. Find other activities to do so that the other person isn't always treating you. And you mentioned social media, so complicated. Do you have any advice for parents, grandparents, or other people who have young children, or children, teens, whatever it is, in their lives that are grappling with sort of seeing these numbers out there and either feeling less than, or feeling, sometimes people feel very guilty if they have more than their friends, and it's not necessarily earned at that age.

Jessica Pelletier:

You're so right. You know, money brings about so many emotions and feelings to people, you know, certainly those that don't have, that's a feeling of panic or real struggle. And you know, our heart goes out to people that really and I think we've all been there, you know, struggle with finances. But amazingly enough, there is tend to be a guilt about having it as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

Is this?

Jessica Pelletier:

And I just think we have to. You know, we're never gonna level the playing field as far as income. There's always differences. Look, there are differences in people's athletics. There are differences in people's, you know, understanding of certain subjects. Someone's always gonna be better at science, you know, than I am. So there is always, I guess, I hate to use the word inequities, but sometimes we have to really, you know, be aware of how special that can be. We were all the same, you know, how boring that would be. But social media tends to really focus on the inequities that I think people are striving for to always have the best clothes and always have the best figure and things like that. And that's where it's so important to just be transparent and talk about it with your kids and really explain that oftentimes is not reality, as we say. I think schools are doing a better job. My son is now in the seventh grade and last year he had a digital literacy class. and it was all about the internet and social media. So I'm thrilled that schools are also partnering with parents in this space. We certainly hope that they're doing their job as well with financial literacy, which I know you and I care so much about. And I just think that is going to start rising up and kids are gonna start to have the tools they need to address things like this that are so complicated.

Bobbi Rebell:

And one place to get those tools is FitMoney. So tell me more about FitMoney and how people can be in touch with you and learn more about all that you're doing. Because it is, I do want to point out, a non-profit focused on financial literacy for kids, K through 12 at this point. So tell me more, Jessica.

Jessica Pelletier:

So, FitMoney is at fitmoney.org. And we are so excited to be philanthropically funded, which means that people care, just like you and me, about what we're doing enough to allow us the tools to give away all of our curricula for free. We don't ever want there to be a barrier to teaching financial literacy, whether you're in an inner city school or suburban, you know, private school. Everyone has a relationship with money in this country and around the world. So we need to start talking about it, and we need the basics. And we advocate that should start as early as kindergarten. So if you've got that five-year-old at home, go on our website. We've got some great games and really fun ways to talk about needs and wants, which I think is the most basic thing we need to talk about. And if you're a teacher that's got juniors and seniors, we've got tools for you as well, all completely free, and hopefully you'll just find what you need on our website.

Bobbi Rebell:

Jessica, thank you so much. This is all wonderful.

Jessica Pelletier:

Bobbi, it was so great.

Bobbi Rebell:

DM me and let me know how it goes at bobbirebell1 on instagram. You can also reach me by getting on my substack newsletter list. That is at bobbirebell.substack.com. And by signing up you get free money tips and information twice a month, along with some perks I have planned for the near future. More on that soon. But you have to be on the list.

Big thanks to Jessica Pelletier of FitMoney for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind. Wellness for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support, and show notes by Alliee Borbon. Artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanSeptember 12, 2023Template

Rich kid realities with The Myth of the Silver Spoon author Kristin Keffeler Encore

Episode Description: Being born wealthy can create priceless opportunities. But Keffeler joins us to explain how the rising generation still has to do the "inner work of money" and navigate family dynamics, financial education, and intergenerational collaboration.

A little sneak peek into Kristin Keffeler’s episode!

Kristin’s Bio:

Kristin Keffeler, MSM, MAPP is a thought leader, speaker, and consultant at the forefront of a global shift in family wealth advising, known as Wealth 3.0. She guides affluent and enterprising families, rising gen, and the professionals who support them in embracing the positive power of wealth and doing the “inner work of money.” Kristin is the author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth & Creating an Impactful Life (Wiley, 2022), an Amazon bestseller in its category.

As the founder of Illumination360 and the Chief Learning Officer for the Denver-based Johnson Financial Group, she specializes in human motivation and behavioral change, family dynamics, family governance, rising gen education and development, and intergenerational collaboration. Drawing upon her life experience as the daughter of wealth-creating parents and her years of research and private practice advising and coaching the rising generation in affluent and enterprising families, Kristin believes that members of the rising gen are uniquely positioned to create significant impact in the world, and uses a lens of strengths to help them to ignite their potential.

Keffeler brings a multi-dimensional approach to her work. She earned an undergraduate degree in human biology and chemistry, with an emphasis on human peak performance. She also holds a Master of Science in Management with a concentration in Public Health from the University of Denver, and a Master of Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.

Kristin’s top character strengths are love, spirituality, gratitude, perseverance, perspective, and love of learning, which she feels grateful to use in her work every day. She lives in Boulder County, Colorado where she rides her bike every day she can, hugs her three daughters as often as possible, laughs with her husband in all the spare moments, and works side-by-side with her dog, Olive.

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.
Subscribe to the newsletter.
Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Being a financial grownup, it's pretty hard. We know that, and that's why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PWC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative effect on their overall health and well-being. Money stress is expensive for companies. Workers are less productive and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about their money. Not surprising as if healthcare costs weren't already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control finances.

Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real-life money stuff. Topics include setting up the best grown-up everyday money habits, managing those social media temptations to splurge, strategies to shop for the best deals at the best time, demystifying and really understanding financial lingo, strategies to steer friends and family away from those bad money decisions, and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you should do one thing with your money and focus on your goals even when it isn't the best "financial decision". It's time for your company to invest in peace of mind with Financial Wellness Strategies. Get in touch for more information at financialwellnessstrategies.com.

Welcome my friends to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I am your host Bobbi Rebell- author of Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. And if I’m being honest as the parent of a teenager- I worry a lot about raising a kid who is spoiled. But I also don’t want him to constantly be worried about money. Just last week- we were at the oral surgeon to get a tooth out and my son was asked if he wanted to just have the area numbed or if he wanted anesthesia. His only question: is there an extra charge for the anesthesia? And if so, how much? seriously? My kid is penny pinching at the dentist. So where is the balance? and this week we are going to talk about rich kid problems. And yes- they do have problems and the eye rolls that may be going on is exactly what we are going to talk about. Have you ever thought about how great life would be if you never had to worry about money? I have. There are people out there like that- but that doesn’t mean they are worry-free or that their life is carefree and we're going to talk about that with the author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon, Kristin Keffeler. But first I want to share this week's quote, and once again, I enlisted my new favorite toy, ChatGPT, here is what ChatGPT gave me when I asked for quotes about silver spoons,

"This silver spoon is a curse as well as a blessing. It gives you the advantage, but it robs you of the joy of achievement," unknown.

And actually, by the way, the ChatGPT gave me 10 pretty compelling quotes. I chose that one because it really goes to the heart of what Kristin Keffeler talks about in her book, The Myth of the Silver Spoon, specifically that yes, there are absolutely advantages to being born wealthy, and most of us would choose to be born wealthy, but it also takes away a lot of what matters to us as humans, and that is kind of complicated. In our interview, Kristen and I talk about how sometimes parents of rich kids think they're actually alleviating anxiety by telling their kids they're never going to have to work. But in fact, it's more complicated than that because it can be really damaging because then what does that say about their ability to do something?

Do they even matter? Do their parents even think they're capable? Another thing Kristen and I talked about in the interview is, should a wealthy kid take a job when maybe they're taking that job away from somebody who really needs the job for the money and that person would get it if the rich kid didn't get the job? So how do you even make peace with that? It's so complicated. Kristen talks about how people who inherit wealth or a family business are often dismissed by society.

But here's the thing everyone, if generational wealth is something that so many of us Americans aspire to, that is what we talk about as the American Dream. We want the next generation to be financially secure, to not have to work, to not have to worry about money. Why do we often vilify it? I want everyone to listen to what Kristin has to say very carefully because I'm betting that it is going to give you a lot to think about in terms of how we perceive the people that we meet in our life that maybe have more money, that maybe it seems that things are just handed to them and the judgements we know we're probably making even though maybe we shouldn't, but we can't help ourselves. Here is Kristin Keffeler.

Kristin Keffeler, you're on Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kristin Keffeler:

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here Bobbi. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm excited to have you because I just finished reading and I should say I read it a few weeks ago and that I reread parts of it last night because it was so compelling, your new book, the Myth of the Silver Spoon, Navigating Family Wealth and Creating an Impactful Life. I related a lot to this having grown up in an upper middle class family with a father that became gradually more successful as I grew up. But a lot of people might roll their eyes at this and say, "Oh, come on. Really? Rich people problems." So what's your answer when you get the eye rolls?

Kristin Keffeler:

Yeah, it's super common and understandable for a couple of reasons. One is culturally, we have a pretty conflicted relationship with money and by extension, wealth, money being sort of the day-to-day way we interact with dollars and cents, paying rent, buying coffee, that kind of thing. Wealth being an abstract concept that of accumulated money, which is this whole other thing. And culturally, we have a pretty conflicted relationship with it. We both seek it and envy those that have it and also disdain those who have it, and particularly those who have inherited it. We have a psychological calculus that says they deserve it even less. That's just sort of bred into our cultural psychology right now. And so when people think about the idea that somebody from a significant and wealthy family could actually also have some psychological trip wires and emotional difficulties, people want to roll their eyes like, "Hey, you've been given every advantage. You are starting on third base, so you have nothing to complain about."

And I would say the vast majority of the rising generation clients I've worked with from wealthy families have that internalized message. And they get it. Like no one, I don't have a single client in my practice who wants anybody's sympathy. That's not what they're seeking. And I think what the challenge is that culturally, because we have such a complex relationship with money and with wealth and those who have it, we don't give any credence to the fact that those who have been raised with it may have a unique set of challenges on their path to claiming their own identity. Despite the fact that they've been given tons of privilege and opportunities, it doesn't mean that it erases the psychological challenges of growing up. And in fact, wealth can create a buffering effect that makes it even harder to grow up.

Bobbi Rebell:

And we talk a lot on this podcast about the concept of becoming a financial grown up, and in fact, having wealth can make that much more complicated because for example, when you are a parent and you have to say no to something because you simply don't have the money, it may not be pleasant, far from it, but that's what you are doing. But when you do have the money, it gets more complicated. It gets more complicated when it comes to milestones of being a financial grownup. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Kristin Keffeler:

Yeah, so from a parenting perspective, you're absolutely right. When circumstances dictate what you can say yes and no to, when you say, "That's just out of our budget, I'm sorry. If that thing is meaningful to you, son or daughter of mine, then you're going to have to figure it out." It's different than when you have enough financial resources that circumstances don't dictate that, then you actually have to know what your parenting values are. And so being grounded in those values and being able to say, "You know what, honey? I am 100% behind you and I think it's really important that you have some skin in the game in this, and so let's figure out how we can do this so that you also have buy-in to this." That's something that is sort of like a level two or level three parenting skill that supports our kids' ability to hit those milestones.

And those milestones, there's probably lots of different ways to look at what are important financial growth milestones, but I would say as you talk about to be a financial grownup to say like, "I get that I'm responsible for this and by being responsible, I'm going to understand my cash flow. I'm going to understand how I spend money and why I spend money. I'm going to understand what it means to hire an advisor and how do I hire a good advisor? What questions do I ask?" These are all things that are part of actually being a grownup and owning your whole financial life.

Bobbi Rebell:

One way that you present it in your book that I think really clarifies a lot of your messaging and a lot of your research is the concept of clutter, money related clutter. You have four areas, the podcast isn't that long, but let's go through them. So the first one is money clutter and wealth.

Kristin Keffeler:

Money clutter is basically our limiting beliefs around money and around wealth. It's the stories that we've inherited from our parents and grandparents about what money is, and that could be across the spectrum from I'll hear stories from rising gen family members who will say like, "Yeah, in our family, the message was we put our pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. We are no different." For other families, it was like, "Honey, you'll never have to worry about having a job. We have enough for you to never have a job." Those messages are internalized and then become part of our narrative, and unless they are examined and we understand and consciously adopt them, they can be very damaging, including something that seems so freeing like, "Honey, you'll never have to have a job." More often than not, when I hear someone say that they've been told that, I see in their lives that they're very, very stuck because ultimately that gets translated to, "Wow, my mom or dad or grandma or grandpa didn't think I was capable. They just said like, I'm going to take care of you forever."

So money clutter is, it's the messages that we have that really muck up our ability to have a very clean and conscious relationship with money and with wealth and ultimately gets in the way of things like being willing to engage with like, "What's my credit score? What's my cash flow? How do financial systems and structures work?" That all becomes clutter that ultimately makes it so people stop engaging or engaging in a healthy way with the money in their lives, and then it becomes a very unconscious game.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. And then it feeds into how we perceive ourselves, our identity, that's identity clutter.

Kristin Keffeler:

So identity is based a lot on false beliefs about who we are and who we need to be in order to be acceptable. And money can create a lot of noise around that search for identity particularly when identity formation, one of the most important times for that is late teens through one's twenties and being out in the world and building experiences and having crummy jobs and all of that kind of stuff is part of what really builds a strong identity, a sense of who am I separate from my family, what is me, what's not me? And money and wealth can create a huge buffer to one's ability to actually find that authentic voice.

Bobbi Rebell:

And speaking of authenticity, you talk about the fact in the book a lot that especially in our teenage years and early twenties when we're forming these friendships and relationships with friends and also coworkers, having that identity can also become relationship clutter because how much do you reveal about your life? And you talk about the fact that sometimes, and I forget your exact terminology, but some overstate that they use their wealth, but some people really almost hide from their wealth. I think of the scene in Crazy Rich Asians where this couple's been dating for quite some time. He's bringing her home to meet his family, and suddenly they're in first class and suddenly he's gradually revealing that in fact has a lot of wealth and he's clearly been very proactively hiding from his girlfriend who's now serious enough that she's meeting his family, and I kept thinking about that. Tell us more about relationship clutter.

Kristin Keffeler:

I love that movie because I feel like it really does capture in an engaging way, a very common experience of someone raised with financial significance. So relationship clutter, you're spot on Bobbi that identity clutter very often leads right into the relationship clutter that a lot of people can experience when they're raised in wealthy families and that is this feeling that you may not be acceptable for just who you are, but it's hard to tell and detest that with friendships and with romantic relationships when all the trappings are very attractive.

So this sense of like, "Well, are people hanging out with me because they really love me or because I have the coolest house or we have a cool vacation home, or why are these people my friends?" And being able to pressure test that authenticity is much more difficult and without oftentimes the ability to actually even fine tune that authenticity meter. It's something that takes time and takes... There's active parenting in that as parents will say, "Hey, does that really feel like that is what a good friend would do?" But when you don't get that kind of feedback and you're not in situations where you can really pressure test and see the equality of our relationship, it can extend into adult years of a lot of relationship clutter that gets in the way of having deep, rich, rewarding relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you do talk in the book about the fact that many of your clients that are rising gen, which a lot of people call that gen, you call it rising gen, and I like that term. I'm going over that from now on. They have trouble forming these friendships because they do have a distrust and maybe it's also an insecurity in themselves in terms of, "Why are people friends with me," especially, and then if your clients have... You don't use the names for most people. You use a couple, which I'll leave for people to find that in your book, but I wasn't surprised at some of the names that you did use because they're famous for talking about their wealth relative to their very famous relatives. A lot of these people have names that in the community are recognizable instantly, so there's no way to hide. They even move away sometimes to different towns just to be authentically themselves.

Kristin Keffeler:

Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's complicated.

Kristin Keffeler:

It's super complicated, and then it takes an immense amount of emotional awareness to detangle that identity from a family name and what other people project about that family name from who you are and trying to find that balance we talk about over and under identifying with wealth. Over identifying is melding too much with the family wealth story and not finding your own individual voice. Under identifying is running from that as far as you can and not having a healthy integration of family and family legacy into your life. And really the middle point is this hyper agency where it's really about who am I as an individual and how do I use and connect with my family wealth story and legacy and still have individuality? And being able to find that is truly a balancing act and something that takes time and effort.

Bobbi Rebell:

The last clutter is contribution clutter, and you use the word contribution rather than work, but that's what it's effectively alluding to and inspiring meaningful purpose. It's very tricky because I also think, well, and right now in the US we do have a situation where there's a lot of job availability, so you're probably not taking a job from someone else, but one thing I think about is if, do you send your kid, if your kid doesn't need to earn money per se, is it taking a job from someone else to have this kid take this job and the income associated with it? Is that ethical? That's one thing right? And then also, what if they aren't going to work for money? How does that play out? Finding your way, your purpose sounds all woo woo, but there are some very specific tangible things associated with it. Tell us more about the whole idea of contribution clutter.

Kristin Keffeler:

This one is such a big one. They're all so big and important and I did use the word contribution instead of work because work has such a strong connotation with a transaction of money and it's not necessarily a core element of clearing this clutter and becoming a financial grownup to have to work for money. There is something that is helpful about it actually because it is the way that the vast majority of your peers are going to be experiencing how they impact the world and how they get rewarded for that. And there's something that in that cycle that can be self-validating. But I used contribution because that's not everybody's path to really figuring out how to engage and impact the world. And I think the core piece to this one is the recognition that removing the financial need to work doesn't remove the human need to work.

We are wired as beings from birth, we are wired to see what we do, you drop the rattle out of the crib and what happens in return is someone come running, that is just part of this action consequence is just part of how we are wired and ultimately our ability to experience true meaning comes in some form or another through work. That work can be defined in lots of different ways. It can be defined through active parenting, it can be defined through philanthropic work, it can be defined through a really high end high drive career, but we have a human need to work and removing the financial need doesn't remove that human need. But very often we have those things tangled up and that's where I see rising gen really struggle is when there's not a financial need to work and then they don't really go find their true metal, really figure out their edge, then they can get really stuck and feel very inconsequential.

Bobbi Rebell:

And one thing you point out in your book is that inheritors are often discounted by society. It's one of the few things that everyone feels it's open season to discount somebody who has inherited wealth or grow up with a family business maybe they grew as they were growing up, it's not always straight up inherited, but maybe they might have a family business that they have to grow into, but sometimes they aren't always want to take over the family business. So it's not always so rosy on that end. When advice do you have, not so much for the inheritors, but for everybody else who might be listening to this who might have that pang of envy, jealousy, or just not knowing how to deal with their friend who maybe they don't talk about it, but they may have a friend that is in this category that they know has a lot of money and is never stressed out about money and it seems to have it all at least?

Kristin Keffeler:

Right. My advice there would be that across the economic continuum, we all probably could do a little deeper money work. We could all understand a little bit more about what our relationship is to money and how to come into a healthier conscious relationship with it and that recognizing that we will always have people in our lives who have more than us. No matter where you fall, there's someone else who has more and that we can easily ascribe a vision for what that must be like for them, right? Oh, I feel stressed about paying rent. My friend who has more than me probably doesn't feel stressed about paying rent, so their life must be better. And I would say we all have our own journey and I have never met someone who doesn't have some amount of pain or growth that they're working through in their life regardless of whether they have money or don't have money.

And so the humanity is where the place that we can connect and I really feel like our ability to use what we have, we have a capitalistic system, so we're not going to change that tomorrow and in a capitalistic system there are... it incentivizes the creation of wealth. That's what capitalism does. There's a huge opportunity to use the lever of what's already in our system, which is the power of concentrated wealth to really turn outward and create an immense amount of good in the world, but we all have to have a more healthy conscious relationship with the money that we have and those in our community who have money and right now, we continue to have a push-pull, us them mentality around this and I feel like we're missing a huge opportunity to use the lever of wealth in the system that we currently have.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much for joining me. Tell me more about how people can be in touch with you. I know your book is for sale all over the place, but where can people find out more about you?

Kristin Keffeler:

Yeah, thank you Bobbi. I'm on LinkedIn so you can find me at Kristin Keffeler, K-R-I-S-T-I-N K-E-F-F-E-L-E-R, and my website is Illumination 360 I-L-L-U-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N 360. And I would love to meet there and have more conversations.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much. The Myth of the Silver Spoon is an amazing book, so we really appreciate you joining us and sharing more of your insights.

Kristin Keffeler:

Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

We all want to live our best financial grownup lives. One way to do that is to know that the people that we care about are also in a good place when it comes to their money. That might mean our kids, our grandkids, and yes, even our friends, but how? I mean, it's kind of awkward. You see them struggling pretending to know more than they do or just making bad money decisions, but you don't know what to say and even if you say something supportive, then what? That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups. In Launching Financial Grownups, I share the tools and strategies so you know what to say to take the pressure off and give those you love the confidence they need. It's all about giving those we care about the right amount of help at the right time so they can not only learn what they need to know about being financial grownups, but also be confident that they can do it and that you'll be there to cheer them on. Pick up a copy of my book Launching Financial Grownups. I promise you'll be so happy that you did.

It really hit home when Kristin said, "Removing the financial need to work doesn't remove the human need to work." The work can be defined in many ways and she says it can be active parenting or it can be philanthropic work or a hard driving career, but it needs to be something. Time now for our extra credit assignment, this one, not so hard to guess. We talked about how basically the whole premise of Crazy Rich Asians is that this couple is dating and the guy hides his wealth and then as it is gradually revealed, and it is a large amount of money and a large amount of social pressure, it throws a wrench in their relationship. So if you haven't seen Crazy Rich Asians, I want you to check it out and if you have, I want you to watch it again with a perspective of, "Why was this rich kid moving halfway around the world and very actively hiding his wealth?"

He wanted to be seen for who he was, not what he was worth, self-worth, not net worth if you will. Just think about it. All right, I'm going to share more insights on this in a future newsletter, so I want everyone to be subscribed. It is free. You can subscribe at bobbirebell.substack.com or use the link in the show notes. You can get both on my website at bobbirebell.com. And like I said, free, totally free. Big thanks to the Myth of the Silver Spoon author Kristin Keffeler for helping us invest in peace of mind and live our best lives as financial grownups. Wellness For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, social media support and show notes by Ali Bourbon, artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned on the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial grownup lives. There is a link in the show notes, but you can also sign up by going to bobbirebell.com or financialwellnessstrategies.com and be a friend. Share the podcast with your friends and anyone you think might like it by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. While you're there, follow me. If you DM me that you listen to the podcast, I will follow you back. You can also leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me and please support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Finally, my grownup friends, don't forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks everyone.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanSeptember 5, 2023Template

Finding your money purpose with Money Made Easy author Allison Baggerly Encore

Episode Description: Inspired Budget’s Allison Baggerly shares her financial wellness strategies to manage anxiety, stay motivated to reach money goals and get comfortable when your goals are not the same as your friends and family.

Allison’s Bio:

Allison Baggerly is an author, podcaster, money coach, and founder of Inspired Budget. As a former teacher, Allison blends her talents for teaching with her passion for personal finances to help others learn how to start budgeting and build a life they love.

Allison and her husband paid off over $111,000 of debt on 2 teacher salaries while growing their family. During the process, she learned how to take back control of her money, stay consistent with paying off debt, and stop emotional spending once and for all.

Allison has been featured in notable media outlets such as Forbes, Business Insider, and Parents as a budget expert who gives women a step-by-step process to break free from the grueling paycheck-to-paycheck cycle. Her book, Money Made Easy, offers a variety of solutions to help you write a budget that works, pay off debt, and have a better relationship with money.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Instagram - @Inspiredbudget
Website - www.inspiredbudget.com/

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Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
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Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

The other day I was watching the news trying to relax, and there was a story that came on about using confetti, yes, confetti, to de-stress. I have to admit, it was pretty appealing. By the way, it's called The Confetti Project if you want to look up what the story was actually about. But guess what is the top thing that we stress about and why we apparently need all this confetti? Well, given that you are listening to this podcast, you guys know the answer. It is money. According to the American Psychological Association, money continues to be the top source of stress for Americans, and that's where Financial Wellness Strategies comes in.

Financial Wellness Strategies provides educational resources for companies' employees so that they can find the balance between financial wealth and mental health. Financial literacy is absolutely important, but we also need to go beyond academics and learn how all of this actually fits into our real lives and what we want to accomplish with our hard-earned money. Learn more about how you and your company can invest in peace of mind at financialwellnessstrategies.com. That's financialwellnessstrategies.com.

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. my friends. I’m your host Bobbi Rebell- Certified financial planner and author of Launching Financial Grownups. I also just this year started Financial Wellness Strategies as you probably have heard. Go to the website- its just the company name- financial wellness strategies and check it out and be in touch if we can be helpful to you and your company. I’ve been doing workshops on things like how to have really constructive multigenerational conversations about money- and financial wellness for women which are both very important to me and should be really to everyone. We do in person- we do virtual- so be in touch. I’m booking for the fall and would love to share what I’ve learned over the years.

This being the end of august- I’m taking some time off but I am also doing some rewinding- for example I am re-reading Don’t Split the Difference by Chris Voss. I also by the way watched his masterclass which is excellent.

So in that spirit, I’m sharing a podcast episode that is absolutely worth listening to as a refresh- or a first time for those of you that are new.

Before we get to our guest- a quote to get us thinking. This one is from Jason Vitug- author of Happy Money Happy Life

“I learned some time ago that I simply didn’t want to take vacations from my life. I wanted to figure out how to create a life I didn’t need to vacation from”

Love that. DM me friends and let me know what you think about that. My insta btw is bobbirebell1. Ok let’s get to Allison Baggerly- our fantastic guest. She has been here before. But I asked her back to talk about her new book Money Made Easy. The title alone makes you feel better right?

Let’s get to it. Here is Allison Baggerly. You are a financial grown-up again

Allison Baggerly:

Thank you, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm happy to have you back to celebrate the launch of your book, Money Made Easy, best title ever, following up on your successful multimedia platform Inspired Budget. You actually, by the way, have two podcasts we should mention as well.

Allison Baggerly:

Yes, I do. I feel like I'm doing it all, but it was not all at once. But yes, my new book is coming out April 4th, and then I have a podcast, Inspire Budget Podcast, and then I get to do a really fun podcast with my friend Chris called, This Is Awkward Podcast. It's fun.

Bobbi Rebell:

Chris Browning, also a favorite guest here. Yes, okay, wait, so we have to talk about this new book, Money Made Easy. Like I said, best title ever. One of my favorite parts of the book is you start off talking about your family. I'm not going to say too much about it because I want to leave the surprise for the book, but a lot of important things happened that started your journey to focusing on budgeting and controlling and hopefully getting rid of your debt. You talk a lot about the importance of finding your catalyst. Tell us about that.

Allison Baggerly:

Oh my goodness! I think that so often we walk through life and we're just doing things that we are supposed to do and we're not always thinking fully about it, because life is stressful and it's overwhelming and it's exhausting. However, sometimes we have to make big choices in our life, especially when it comes to our money, whether it is to start investing and prioritize investing or pay off debt, which is what I was doing. Sometimes we need a reason because we just lose motivation without a catalyst. In the book, I really lay out my own catalyst for change. And in a surprising twist, it wasn't me at all. It wasn't even my husband.

When we decided to really take control of our money and learn how to budget, pay off debt and start investing, it wasn't even about us to begin with. But during the process, I came to learn that I am enough. I am reason enough to change my financial situation, but it didn't start out like that. I feel like a lot of people, it doesn't start out like that for them. They hit this rock bottom moment. The first part of the book is really focusing on finding a reason to make a financial change that might be uncomfortable for a period of time, but not forever.

Bobbi Rebell:

How do you find that?

Allison Baggerly:

Oh my goodness!

Bobbi Rebell:

I know for you it was largely your kids. Now I just spoiled part of it.

Allison Baggerly:

That's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:

What if someone is not in a circumstance, but they feel lost and they're looking for that north star?

Allison Baggerly:

It doesn't always have to be held in our rock bottom moments. I think it's very easy to say there's going to be something happens in your life. For instance, I got pregnant. That was our catalyst, and we couldn't afford daycare. That was a big moment in my life, this massive shift. This very much the clouds parted, everything shown down, the light bulb went off. But that's not the same for everyone, and it's okay that that's not the same. I think that your catalyst can be just the small annoyances in your life, annoyances like, oh my gosh, let me think about this. I'm getting paid on Friday, but my car payment is due on Thursday.

Do I have enough money? Or just wanting to be able to take trips that maybe you can't afford, or you're tired of that interest rate on your credit card debt, or you're frustrated thinking about the fact that, okay, I'm 35 years old and I haven't quite safe for retirement. And oh yeah, my parents might need support along the way because they haven't really saved for retirement either. Just that awareness really can be a catalyst. It all comes back to awareness and being intentional. I think so often it's hard to do that. We live very busy lives, very busy schedules.

What I recommend doing is just taking time to sit down and maybe even journal out just, what are you wanting to change with your money and why? Just being able to almost go through that process can reveal to you a catalyst for change that is something that is strong enough for you to stick with whenever you might be distracted when it comes to your money.

Bobbi Rebell:

On point, when we talk about wellness for financial grownups. And in fact, my favorite chapter, to no one's surprise probably, is chapter five, in case you have the book in front of you, pay off debt while enjoying life. This is really hard because sometimes we do get motivated to do these things that we know are good for us financially, but we do it to the elimination of just living our lives. You and I talked before we started recording about these vacations and the mixed feelings that we have when we splurge on what we feel is discretionary, but maybe it's not. But how do you balance that?

I mean, do you just go all in? A lot of people feel that you go all in and just spend all their money paying down their debt or saving up for a goal, but then life is going by, and especially for parents, your kids are getting older. You don't want them to "outgrow" Disney World before you can afford it.

Allison Baggerly:

Yes, and this is such an important thing to talk about, and I don't think enough people talk about it, Bobbi. I really don't. I think that there are so many people out there, so many financial books that tell you, do this, do this, and do that and live without any spending for a period of time. It's okay, just sacrifice everything and it'll be worth it. But I tried that, I did, and it sucked. I ended up going completely opposite and spending money just as a way to feel like I had some control. During our debt-free process, I had to find a way to balance what I wanted for my money goal, which was to pay off debt, but also what I wanted for my daily life, which was to be able to spend money on things that were important to me.

But I think here's the key is that we sometimes don't know what is important to us and what we want to spend money on. We are pulled in so many directions and we see what everyone else is spending money on, and we think that everything is of the same priority level, but it's not. In this chapter, what I talk about is creating a payoff debt process, but also prioritizing those other expenses so you can still spend money on what you want and reach your goal at the same time. Because like you said, I want to be able to have those experiences with my kids. That is a priority for me, but other things aren't. I can cut out something so that I can still reach my money goals and have those experiences.

Bobbi Rebell:

What would be an example?

Allison Baggerly:

Oh my goodness! An example, here's an example in my life. My example. Now, we don't have any debt other than our mortgage, but let's say that we did. Let's say that I had to go buy a new car. I get in a car wreck, and I have to go buy a new car. I don't have the money to pay for it in cash, and so I decide to go finance a car. My thought process would be, okay, I don't care as much about the car I drive as much as I do about the experiences I have with my children or the travel. Now, other people might be different. Other people might really care about the car. And I'm not saying that's wrong.

You have to figure out what you care about. But for my example, I would rather finance a used car if I had to that was not fancy. I've always thought I wanted to drive a Range Rover. But when it comes down to it, I don't really want that, as much as I want to be able to take at least one family vacation every year that I do spend 5,000 to $6,000 on. In my mind, I make the decision, I would rather spend less on that car and have that money earmarked for a family vacation. It's just making those choices in a head space that is what's important to you and your family, not what everyone else says is important.

Bobbi Rebell:

You talk in the book a lot about coping with financial anxiety. Do you have advice for people on that?

Allison Baggerly:

Oh my gosh! I mean, as someone who has financial anxiety and just general anxiety and depression...

Bobbi Rebell:

Don't we all?

Allison Baggerly:

I know, right? I feel like, I don't know, something happened between after the year 2008 where everyone was like, okay, we've all been through it. I would say with financial anxiety, a lot of times we let our anxiety overwhelm us when it comes to our money, and I do this a lot. I will let my feelings and anxiety take over my mind. What I have to do personally and what I recommend anyone do is to actually stop, acknowledge the thought, and then ask yourself if it's actually true. I learned this, this is not my own process, but I learned this through Byron Katie, her book, Loving What Is and the work. I've been able to adapt that to really dealing with financial anxiety.

For instance, if you're having a money anxiety thought of, oh my gosh, I'm going to get laid off. My company is scaling back. I'm going to get laid off. I'm going to lose my job, and I'm not going to be able to pay my mortgage and my house is going to get foreclosed on. That is very much a whole story and anxiety thought. Well, then you ask yourself, well, is it true? Do you know for sure you're going to get laid off? Well, no, I don't. I know that for sure. If it happens, do you know you won't be able to make your mortgage payment? Well, no, I have money in savings.

Being able to work through those thoughts and acknowledge that not every thought that comes into our mind is necessarily true, we can't tell the future, for me, it alleviates some of the anxiety, not all, but some of it to where I can not make impulsive decisions or be very reactive based on my fears or anxiety.

Bobbi Rebell:

You also talk about making progress visual.

Allison Baggerly:

Oh, yes. I love good visual progress. Here's the deal, working on paying off debt, it is a very abstract thing. There's these numbers floating around and sometimes... Actually not sometimes. There will come a time when you lose motivation and you want to give up, but that's why making your progress on your debt payoff progress or any money goal you have, you can really make it visual is so important because what I did when we were paying off debt is it was a long journey for us. It was four and a half years. It was not this quick four month process or eight month process. It was lengthy. It was long.

It was overwhelming, and it wasn't fun overall. Most of the time, it wasn't fun. There were moments when I was very motivated and I didn't need to be reminded why we were sacrificing for a season. But then there were moments when I was like, nope, not worth it. I feel like we've been doing this forever. It's never going to end. And that is when, when I hit those moments, I would go and I would color in on a little homemade debt-free thermometer I made, I would color in my progress. I saved it for those moments when I needed the motivation.

And being able to visually see, "Oh my gosh, we are making progress. Wow, this is actually working. It might not feel like it's working, but I can visually see that it's working," that gave me the motivation that I might have been lacking in the moment. I think keeping your progress visual is wonderful for motivation. It's also wonderful just for a benchmark especially if you're doing this alongside a partner or if you're with a family and the whole family is along for the ride, it's a really good visual for others to just gauge how you're doing financially.

Bobbi Rebell:

And that can work for any financial goal, not just for debt, which is one reason why I love that. You also love inspiring quotes. Before I let you go, send us off with an inspiring quote.

Allison Baggerly:

Oh my goodness! I think that it's okay for me, I would say I am willing to sacrifice for a season to live the rest of my life in abundance. Sacrifices don't have to be miserable. They don't have to be difficult. They can be very small sacrifices that add up to a life that is just completely filled with abundance.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love it. Thank you so much. Tell us more about where we can find you. I know the book is going to be everywhere, Money Made Easy, but tell us more about you and everywhere you are.

Allison Baggerly:

Of course. Of course, you can get the book at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, anywhere you want to buy books, Money Made Easy. If you like listening to podcasts, which I'm guessing you do because you're listening right now, then you can check out my podcast. I have the Inspired Budget Podcast, and I also host a podcast with my friend Chris called This Is Awkward, where we discuss people's awkward money situations. It's really fun. And then you can always find me online at inspiredbudget.com or on social media at @InspiredBudget.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much, Allison.

Allison Baggerly:

Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

We all want to live our best financial grownup lives. One way to do that is to note that the people that we care about are also in a good place when it comes to their money. That might mean our kids, our grandkids, and yes, even our friends. But how? I mean, it's kind of awkward. You see them struggling pretending to know more than they do or just making bad money decisions, but you don't know what to say. Even if you say something supportive, then what? That's why I wrote Launching Financial Grownups. In Launching Financial Grownups, I share the tools and strategies so you know what to say to take the pressure off and give those you love the confidence they need.

It's all about giving those we care about the right amount of help at the right time, so that they can not only learn what they need to know about being financial grownups, but also be confident that they can do it and that you'll be there to cheer them on. Pick up a copy of my book, Launching Financial Grownups. I promise you'll be so happy that you did. I love that. Allison ended our interview with such a meaningful quote talking about the idea of sacrificing just for a season to live in abundance for our lives. We face so many obstacles that cause us anxiety, they seem so ominous at the time, but Allison points out that they are often just a season of our lives.

Okay, time now for our extra credit segment. It's a goodie. Allison hosts a podcast with Chris Browning called This Is Awkward. That's actually not the extra credit assignment, although definitely check out This Is Awkward. It's a great podcast. Anyway, that made me think about what was one of the most awkward scenes that I have ever seen on a television show. It was the first scene of the first episode of the first season of the HBO show Girls. You can see it now on H b o Max. It was more than a decade ago. I actually feel like it's grown in relevance. Here's the summary in short, basically Lena Dunham's character, Hannah Horvath, is very focused on her purpose as a writer.

She's writing her memoir because I guess she just thinks that she's the voice of her generation. She references a job, but she's caught off guard and kind of offended frankly at dinner with her parents when they seemingly out of the blue tell her that they are cutting her off. Literally the mom says, "No more money," because she doesn't seem to be getting it. Then it comes out that this job she has is actually an internship with no paycheck, and it's been two years since college. The conversation gets more eye-opening from there, incredible entitlement and incredibly awkward conversations about money and the lack of communication between the generations and just a lack of awareness on both sides.

But I have a lot more thoughts on this and I want to hear yours. I'm going to be putting the clip of it. You can find it on your own, but get on my newsletter list because I'm going to put the clip in the newsletter and I'm going to also have some additional perspective. And then the great thing about Substack, which I just switched the newsletter too, is that you can go there and you can also leave your comments. You can go there and sign up for the newsletter at bobbirebell.substack.com. Super easy. We'll also leave a link in the show notes to sign up for the newsletter.

You can also, by the way, get it in the show notes at bobbirebell.com under the podcast tab, which, by the way, you also can get the free transcript of this entire podcast. I'm excited to hear though what you guys think about this iconic first scene. So many thoughts, as I said. All right, big thanks to Allison Baggerly, author of Money Made Easy, for helping us all be financial grownups. Wellness for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support and show notes by Alliee Borbon. Artwork by Chelsea Perez.

While you're there, follow me. If you DM me that you listen to the podcast, I will follow you back. You can also leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Rating each one means the world to me. Please support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Finally, my grownup friends, don't forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks, everyone.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanAugust 29, 2023

How to be financially generous without enabling bad money habits Encore

Episode Description: Financial therapist Lindsay Bryan-Podvin joins Bobbi to share strategies on how to provide the right kind of support for those we care about, without undermining their journey to being financial grownups. We also discuss managing friends who are so generous it becomes awkward, and what to say to a loved one who is spending for emotional reasons that is supportive without being judgmental.

Lindsay’s Bio:

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin (she/her) is a biracial financial wellness expert, speaker, and author of the book "The Financial Anxiety Solution." A practicing social worker since 2012, she uses a shame-free approach to help people get their minds and money in balance by focusing on the intersection of money and mental health using financial therapy. While financial literacy is important, she champions the belief that money is rooted in emotions and impacted by the systems around us. She has a degree in sociology and a Master’s in Social Work with certificates in Financial Social Work and Financial Therapy. She lives with her partner and their dog on the occupied land of the Fox, Peoria, and Potawatomi peoples, also known as Michigan.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Welcome my friend to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I'm so glad you're here. I'm your host, Bobbi Rebell. I'm a certified financial planner and the author of a couple of books about Financial Grownups. The most recent one is Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart.

I also run an education and consulting company called Financial Wellness Strategies, and I spent my earlier career days as a business news anchor and personal finance columnist working at places including Reuters, CNBC, and CNN. Each week on the podcast, we share strategies, not solutions, we'll explain, for living our best Financial Grownup lives.

So I say strategies, not solutions for a very specific reason. Our lives, not problems to be solved, my friends. We are in a constant state of adapting and evolving as humans. We are on our own journeys, but we benefit from the support, knowledge and perspective that we can get from each other. And that is the purpose of this podcast.

This week's guest is Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, and we are going to be focusing on the difference between generosity and enabling those that we love and care about in our lives. But first, as we will do every week, I want to share a quote to get us thinking about our own wellness as Financial Grownups. This week's quote is from legendary money manager Peter Lynch.

He is best known as the manager of the Magellan Fund at Fidelity Investments. He was there, the big years were 1977 to 1990. He averaged, get this guy's, almost a 30% return, 29.2 annual return to be exact. Consistently more than double the stock market, making it the best performing mutual fund in the world. And he was a big proponent of value investing and advocated investing in what you know.

So here is this week's quote, "Know what you own and know why you own it." Know what you own and know why you own it. And I think this is an interesting metaphor for so much in life. It reminds me of Marie Kondo's focus on only owning things that bring us joy. We buy stuff for all kinds of reasons and there is nothing wrong with buying something because you like it and you can afford it.

But take stock, pun intended in this case, this week of things that you own and really give some thought to why you own it. And then take action or no action from there. Spring cleaning for Financial Grownups. Let's get to this week's guest. So as I mentioned, financial wellness expert and social worker, Lindsay Bryan-Podvin.

She is the author of the book, the Financial Anxiety Solution. And Lindsay is all about using a shame-free approach to help people get their minds and money in balance by focusing on the intersection of money and mental health. Now among the highlights of our interview, we talk about how to manage an overly generous friend when it gets to an awkward level. And look, I hope that hasn't happened to you, but sometimes it happens.

Sometimes people are really well-intentioned and they know that you can't afford something, so they're always offering to pay for stuff and it gets a little weird. We're also going to talk about how to delicately tell someone that you know is overspending to get control of the situation. And then we're also going to touch on how to be generous but not undermine someone's efforts to be a Financial Grownup. Here is Lindsay Bryan-Podvin. Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Thanks Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm so appreciative of you being here because you have so much to share with our audience. You are not only a financial therapist, but you're also a content creator. I want you to tell us more about what you do before we get into our conversation.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Sure. So for people who don't know what financial therapy is, I have a background in clinical social work and I've been a practicing therapist for over a decade. And then I have additional specialty training in financial psychology and in financial social work.

So in my therapy practice, I help people with the emotional side of money. And then as Bobbi mentioned, outside of my therapy practice, I love helping people understand how our emotions and our mental health intersect with the way that we interact with money. And I provide a lot of content through YouTube and Instagram and my blog all about how our money and emotions are connected.

Bobbi Rebell:

And they are very connected. And that's one thing we're going to talk about today. This episode where we're going to be talking about the difference between generosity and enabling was inspired by our mutual friend Melanie Lockhart. She has a podcast called the Mental Health and Wellness Podcast. I think I got that name right.

Everyone should check it out. She spoke about this topic and I thought about it and I said, "You know what? I want to talk to Lindsay about how this can apply to Financial Grownups." Because being a Financial Grownup, we want to make sure that we are taking care of ourselves and the people around us, but it can get a little bit nuanced because we want to be generous.

In fact, we talk a lot about generosity on the podcast, but at the same time, sometimes that can cross into some unexpected consequences and we can become enablers of some financially... Well, just some damaging behavior that we can basically undermine good financial habits. So first of all, what's your general take on this topic?

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

My general take on this topic is that for adults who are in this sandwich generation of trying to raise children, stepchildren or children in the community and aging parents, if they are doing okay financially, it can be really easy to slip from being helpful or being thoughtful into enabling a child or into enabling an adult caregiver.

There's this fine line between being kind and being conscientious and being generous and potentially making it tricky for somebody else who is able-bodied and of sound mind to take care of their own financial needs. So when we think about enabling from the therapy lens, enabling is where a person, we call them the giver or rescuer swoops in to prevent somebody who's engaging in behaviors that might be harmful from facing any of their natural consequences.

So when it comes to financial enabling, that could look like maybe swooping in and paying for your adult child's rent because they have decided to spend their money on going out and taking their friends out. Right? That would be a version of enabling, is you're preventing that adult child from facing those natural consequences of what happens if their rent is late.

And what happens over time is that it can create this unhealthy pattern where the giver or the helper is constantly kind of feeling like their role within this person's life is to save them or is to rescue them, and then they can kind of become dependent on the feeling of being the savior. So it gets to be really murky really quick.

And when we think about generosity, I like to think about it more of kind of your one-time offerings or having really transparent, generous conversations with an adult child about the financial gifts that you might provide them. For example, if you have an adult child who just graduated from college, maybe you say to them, "My generous gift to you is that I will help subsidize your rent for the first three months while you're getting on your feet.

Then after that I'm going to pull that money back. Not because I'm mean, not because I'm cutting you off, but because I want you to learn how to manage your money. And I understand that those first few months can be a little bit tricky getting on your feet." So the generosity is where you give something clearly, kindly and without the expectation of something in return, whereas enabling is you giving something with the hopes that you're going to get something in return.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. And the classic situation that we hear about very often, and I know my friend, David Bach has talked about this quite a bit, is your child or someone that you care about, someone that you have financial ties to. It could be, for example, even a romantic partner, they get into credit card debt and you bail them out and you say you're not going to do it again, but then it happens again and maybe the consequences would hit them and you. So how do you handle that?

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah. Oh, it's so tricky in those situations. So when it comes to credit card debt in that cycle that we tend to see happen a lot where somebody racks up credit card debt, they either work really hard to pay it down or they pay it down with their partner and then they get back into it again.

When you're going to have a generous conversation with somebody like that, you may say, "Look, in order to prevent this from happening again, let's put a freeze on your credit and let's maybe get you into therapy to figure out why this is happening again and again."

Because it is probably more likely that they are trying to scratch some sort of itch with that shopping. Because when we think about shopping, it releases a host of feel good brain chemicals for us. So it makes it really challenging to stop shopping if that's somebody's kind of go-to coping skill. Right? When we shop, we get that rush of serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin or endorphins depending on what we're shopping for, time of day, et cetera.

So it could be a loving and generous thing to do to say to your partner, "Look, we're going to pay this off together. Let's freeze your credit and let's make sure that I as your partner am not enabling this behavior and you are also getting the help that you need to find some other healthy outlets to get those feel good brain chemicals outside of shopping."

Bobbi Rebell:

A lot of this generosity versus enabling can get very nuanced when it comes to friendships, especially when...

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:

People have different levels of financial resources and often through nothing directly through their own actions.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

So let's say a scenario. You've got young people that have jobs, they're both working hard, but one maybe has family money and has a little more wiggle room financially than the other. The one with more money wants to go somewhere and is perfectly capable of paying for everyone. We've got the person, "Drinks on me." That's great, that's very generous. But talk to me about how does that really play out in terms of this whole scenario?

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Again, I think of generosity as being clear and kind. So if you are the person who's in a financial situation to be able to treat your friends, that's perfectly fine, but also check in with them. Because as the person on the receiving end, this person being generous saying, "Let me take you on a trip. Let me take you out to a nice dinner.

This feels really good for me." The person on the receiving end actually might be incredibly uncomfortable and they might be like, "Look, I don't mind getting a round in drinks every now and then from you. That feels really good, but taking us to your family's Swiss chalet feels really uncomfortable for me.

And I actually feel more out of my element. And I know you mean for it to be kind, but for me it just feels really uncomfortable." So again, just being clear and kind and also maybe even addressing something that might be more uncomfortable, which is for the person who is not in that financial situation to say to this giver, "Hey, I would love to do more traveling together, but what's in my budget is more of splitting an Airbnb.

Is that something you're comfortable with? Would you be interested in kind of traveling my way? And if you want to take us out to dinner once while we're there, great. But I don't want to feel like I'm kind of out of my league either." So having some of those more uncomfortable conversations can help for the generosity and for your friend to feel like they're a part of the conversation as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

It also can come into play when there are mixed messages in families. So for example, can you talk about that? Because that's something that is very precarious because you're dealing with multiple different relationships.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

And how we intersect.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah. So a kind of classic example of this is nice parent and mean parent or good cop, bad cop. That kind of dynamic where you have one parent who likes to be really kind, feels it's very important to be generous, but that generosity often sometimes is met from their partner with, "You're enabling our kid" or "You're never letting them face natural consequences."

And it can set up this weird triangle where the adult child knows who to go to when they need their cellphone bill paid or when they need their parking ticket paid. They don't go to the tougher parent, they go to the parent who they know is going to just log into that account and pay that bill for them. But then it sets up this kind of divide between all of them because you've got the parent who's trying to provide that tough love and say, "Look, you need to kind of face some of these natural consequences" with their partner who's eager to swoop in and clean up.

And then it makes it really challenging for that adult child to ever kind of learn the importance of taking ownership for those types of things. And it's not to say that if you have generous parents, you should never ask for them or of them anything. I think most parents will agree, if I have the means to help out my kid, I want to do that. And we want to make sure that it's more of a safety net than a enabling situation.

And what I mean by that, a safety net is more of a one time if your adult child is in a crisis helping out financially. So for example, if an adult child is renting and the fridge breaks, maybe the parents would say, "Look, we'll buy you meals or we'll buy you groceries until the fridge gets fixed." That would be an example of a safety net financial support versus like, "You can just use our credit card for groceries from here on out," which might be more enabling.

Bobbi Rebell:

Does the response from a parent have to, I mean, how do you sort of figure out the difference? I mean, I guess it's looking at is it something that they caused or that they're... In other words, the refrigerator breaking, I mean, that's just not their fault, but then again, that's also life and maybe you shouldn't be there. It's tricky because I know I would be there.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm going to write the check to fix the fridge. And I think most parents are, even if it's going to be to their own financial detriment, which is something that we talk a lot about with launching Financial Grownups is it's great to help your kids, but the greatest gift you can give your children is not being dependent on them later in life. So you have to be careful with that.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Also, think about when we are not allowing folks to face natural consequences or to use your term, have skin in the game, we're also robbing them of their ability to trust that they know how to problem solve or that they have the capacity to be responsible in certain ways.

Bobbi Rebell:

And that goes to your point earlier with the fact that you put up guardrails with things like subsidizing the first maybe post-education, first career years of a young adult's life. There's nothing wrong with subsidizing rent, but there should be messaging that there's a timeline for it and an expectation that can be adjusted.

Of course, if something happens, we're there for our adult children, but there has to be an expectation that we believe in them. Because you do undermine their confidence if you don't let them know that they can be okay without you also. That you're there for them when they need you, you're there for them when they just want you, but you also believe in them.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

And it can be really healthy for the adult child and the parent's relationship once that particular financial support is removed to connect about things beyond, "Did you pay my bills this month?" Right?

Bobbi Rebell:

Yes.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

It can actually help to deepen that conversation and that transition from emerging adult to adult. There's so much opportunity to deepen further with your parent or with your adult child if you are connecting and talking about things besides that dynamic of I give and you take.

Bobbi Rebell:

Because it can become very transactional then. You have a young adult child, maybe you're subsidizing their first couple of years in their career and the conversations can focus, the communication can focus on, "Oh, I got this bill, are you paying it?" And I think it's really important to sort of ease them off that.

So maybe if they are using your tax accountant, you can say, "well, I will pay this percentage of the bill this year and this percentage next year, but you have to take control of all the communications with the accountant. You are the client.

You need to get your documents in order, whatever it may be." And sort of ease them into it and let them see the bill. Because if they don't see the bill, what it costs to run their life, whether it is the tax accountant or their portion of the phone bill, whatever it may be, or even the Netflix bill. One of my favorite things is one of our adult children, she subscribes to a channel, and she, and I'm sorry if we get in trouble here, but she shared the password to that one with us.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah, sure.

Bobbi Rebell:

So it doesn't have to be one way. If they're paying 4.99 for whatever extra channel that I wasn't going to pay for anyway, but maybe there's a show on there, it can be reversed. And I think it gave them great pleasure to be like, "Okay, I know I'm using your Netflix password," and we pay for a family plan if anyone's watching. We do pay. But, "I know I'm using your Netflix password, but you can use my password for this and we can all share."

And the whole idea of the family ecosystem and letting them know that yes, you can pay for dinner 99% of the time, but it's kind of fun if maybe they pay for dinner on your birthday or whatever it may be. And it probably gives them a lot of pride. I know it's always, it gives me a lot of pride when we do something for our parents, my siblings and I for various life events and stuff.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Totally. I can remember vividly the first time my partner and I paid for a dinner for our in-laws and how good it felt to be able to treat them. And obviously, over the course of our lifetimes buying them a dinner is a drop in the bucket compared to all the things that they've done for us. But it also felt really kind and also just like a little token of our appreciation to say, this is something that feels good for us to be able to do. And it was early adulthood, but we firsthand some of those actual paychecks coming in and it was so nice to be able to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Exactly. So I want to wrap up our conversation, but I do want to give you a moment to sort of share your final thoughts on this topic.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Yeah. I think one thing for the listeners is just to know that this is an ongoing conversation. And I know I repeated this ad nausea, but it's so important to make sure that you're having these conversations with your adult children, or if you're the adult child, with your parents and caregivers.

And as Bobbi mentioned, these things are going to change over time and what feels good right now might not feel good in six months, and just because you agreed to something doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. So I hope that listening to this and listening in on this helps you to think about, "Oh, how can I talk to my adult child? Or, "How can I talk to my parent about this particular financial dynamic that we find ourselves in?"

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much. Tell us more about where people can be in touch with you and also your YouTube channel.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Of course. So my business is called Mind Money Balance, where I help people understand the shame-free side of money so they can get their minds and money and balance. And you can find me on YouTube at Mind Money Balance, on Instagram at Mind Money Balance, and of course on my website. And my book is called The Financial Anxiety Solution, and it's a workbook that helps you work through your feelings about money so that you can have a healthier relationship with it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much.

Lindsay Bryan-Podvin:

Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

Lindsay spells it out so clearly, make it a safety net rather than an ongoing means of financial support to make sure that you are not enabling, that you're merely being generous. Setting those boundaries, but communicating that you're going to still be there for them, but you hope that they're going to create a life where they have their own safety nets in place time.

Now for our financial Grownup Extra Credit for this episode. Each week I share a recommendation that can add to our conversation about wellness. Because education, financial education, financial literacy is a big part of financial wellness. This week it is a YouTube channel called The Financial Diet. It is hosted by my friend Chelsea Fagan, and she has a knack for putting money stuff in perspective.

She's very entertaining to watch, but she has some really good messages. Chelsea herself, by the way, very cool. In her spare time, she recently wrote a book, not about money, not at all about money. It is called a Perfect Vintage, and it is fiction. It comes out in June. Talk about balance. And by the way, they also have a really cool online book club over at The Financial Diet.

We will leave a link to The Financial Diet's YouTube channel in the show notes. I so appreciate all of the support for this podcast. I hope you like this new iteration. It's been percolating for more months than I care to admit, but we finally did it. Big thanks to everyone involved, including my editor, Steve Stewart, assistant Allie Bourbon, who you can thank for the show notes and the transcript. By the way, all for free at BobbiRebell.com.

Allie also puts together great social media clips that you can see on Instagram, TikTok and LinkedIn. Also, so grateful to Chelsea Perez who designed our new podcast artwork. If you are not already, please sign up for our newsletter, which has more great resources for Financial Grownups and will also include follow-ups to those extra credit assignments.

Please follow me and DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 or catch me on TikTok under Bobbi Rebell. And of course, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn as well. Big thanks to Lindsay Bryan-Podvin for helping us all be Financial Grownups and invest in peace of mind. Wellness For Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media.

Editing and Production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, social media support and show notes by Alliee Borbon, artwork by Chelsea Perez. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned on the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best Financial Grownup lives.

There is a link in the show notes, but you can also sign up by going to BobbiRebell.com or financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be a friend, share the podcast with your friends and anyone you think might like it by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1.

While you're there, follow me. If you DM me that you listen to the podcast, I will follow you back. You can also leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And please support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Finally, my grownup friends, don't forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks, everyone.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanAugust 22, 2023Template

Shopping as a financial wellness teaching tool with Trae Bodge

Episode Description: Smart Shopping expert Trae Bodge is back on the podcast just in time for a back to school lesson. We share strategies on using this time to engage and inspire the next generation to be smart shoppers, and reveal Trae’s top ways to save as the kids head back to class.

Trae Bodge’s Bio: Trae is an accomplished lifestyle journalist and TV commentator who has specialized in smart shopping, personal finance, and retail for more than a decade. She has appeared on TV over 1,000 times; including Today Show, GMA, NBC Nightly News, Inside Edition, and network affiliates nationwide.

She was recently selected as a founding member of the Kiplinger Advisor Collective, and has been named a Top Voice in Retail by LinkedIn, and a top personal finance expert by GoBankingRates and FlexJobs. Her writing and expert commentary have appeared in Forbes, Time, Marketwatch, MSN, USNews.com, Kiplinger, Yahoo, and numerous others.

Trae is also co-founder of the media coaching firm, One Take, and the cult cosmetic brand, Three Custom Color Specialists. She is a frequent panel, podcast, and IG Live guest, addressing such topics as media relations, entrepreneurship, and how to navigate the media landscape as an on-air talent and expert source.

She loves delicious food, vintage clothing, art, music, and new places. She spends her free time with her 16-year-old daughter, Sadie Mae, her husband, Chris, their rabbit, Willow, and family and friends.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Follow Bobbi!

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Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: Being a financial grownup is hard- That’s why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PwC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative impact on their overall health and wellbeing. Money stress is expensive for companies- workers are less productive, and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about finances. As if health care costs weren’t already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control their finances. Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real life money stuff.

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”. It's time for your company to invest in peace of mind with Financial Wellness Strategies. Get in touch at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com.

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Bobbi Rebell- Certified Financial Planner, author of Launching Financial Grownups and the founder of Financial Wellness Strategies. Back to school shopping is happening already. Some love it- the feeling of excitement for all the opportunities coming for kids in the new school year. It is a ritual many look forward too that brings us back to our own childhoods. But it is also expensive and if we are being honest, yet another thing - in fact many things- to add to our to do list.

My advice to make the most of the time - and the money- you are spending is to leverage it as an opportunity for a little financial wellness education. And for that I brought in a friend who is, in my mind, the best shopping expert there is.

Before we get to her, I want to share this week’s quote which I hope gives you some motivation and inspiration.

This week's quote is from designer Vivienne Westwood: “Buy less. Choose well. Make it last."

And that is definitely something this week’s guest smart shopping expert Trae Bodge would agree with. In our interview we get into how to use the back to school shopping experience to share money strategies with the next generation. We both get honest about the struggles we face as parents of teens. Trae shares her latest shopping tips, whether you should be loyal to one cash back app or play the field, and we even get into whether or not you should be clicking those cookies that pop up seemingly everywhere.

Tray Baj, my friend, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Trae:

Thanks so much for having me back.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I had to bring my favorite smart shopping expert back because I've been doing a lot of shopping with my teenager lately, and I find that it's actually a great way to teach young people and friends and acquaintances that show interest, let's say that too, just to throw it out there, about personal finance skills and about money and just making it, just normalizing conversations about money. And so I asked you to come on, especially because we're sort of into this back to school season where A lot of parents and multi-generational families may be out there shopping, getting ready for the school year. So welcome back.

Trae:

Thanks so much for having me back. I'm always happy to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:

So give me your general viewpoint on how to first approach this topic. Because when you, one of the great things about doing money lessons while doing something else is that you can be, it's a little like the broccoli and the brownies thing. Tell me your general thoughts. And by the way, I should mention, you are also the parent of a teenager.

Trae:

I am, so my daughter is 17 years old and I have been taking her shopping with me since she was very little because I saw, especially when she was even maybe three or four, that she didn't understand how money worked, of course, because I hadn't shown her. And so she would ask and ask and ask for things and get upset when I didn't give them to her. And so I thought it might be helpful for her to understand sort of the give and take of money, the exchange of money, how much things cost, how you can save money. And so I've been taking her shopping with me the whole time, and I have to say she's one of the smartest shoppers I know.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, she is. She's really good at thrift shopping, which is something that's very on trend these days.

Trae:

It is not only on trend, but I am so grateful for it because I don't spend that much money on her at all when it comes to clothes because she loves buying secondhand. That's one of my favorite lessons that you can teach kids, especially around back to school, because kids are very conscious, they're worried about being judged, they wanna look cool. And then you say, let's go to the thrift store. And for a lot of kids, that's like a big bummer. But what I like to say to kids who resist going secondhand shopping is that their budget can go so much farther. So if you have a finite amount to spend that you tell them, and then you say at a thrift store you can buy these many things, and if you go to a regular store you can only buy a few things, they might be more willing to go to that thrift store with you after all.

Bobbi Rebell:

So what are your top dos, and then we're gonna get to your don'ts separately, but what are your top dos when it comes to teaching? And it doesn't have to be just children. It can be even if you're shopping. We all have friends that we know are a little bit too spendy. What are your top tips and your dos? We're gonna do dos and don'ts. What are your dos when it comes to this?

Trae:

so for me, for dues for back to school specifically, and this seems so obvious, but I talked to so many people about this and they're not doing it, is to make a list. And this applies very well to holiday as well. Go through your kids' clothes, have them try everything on. Go through their backpack. Maybe their backpack just needs a wash. Maybe they can reuse their thermos from last year or their lunchbox. Then create a list based on this list from the school and what you have at home or don't and then go shopping. So that's rule number one. And then also look for the sales. There are so many great sales out there, especially from your big box stores like your Target, your Walmart, your office supply stores like Staples and Office Depot. Check Amazon, use tools like Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping for example to compare prices. If you do happen to be doing some shopping online, use shopping apps when you're in store to see if there are available cash-back offers or coupons that you can use. And then set limits for your kids. Don't give them carte blanche to buy everything that they want, especially if they want pricey things like that pricey pair of sneakers that all the kids are wearing. These are things that you can talk to about your kids and say, listen, if we buy those sneakers, we only have a tiny bit left for your binders and other things that you need. Show them the cause and effect of those big purchases that they wanna make. And trust me, they will grow to be smart shoppers as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

At what point do you let the kids sort of drive the decisions, maybe even shop without you present?

Trae:

This is a great question. So I am a huge fan of letting, especially kids of tween and teenage, do some shopping on their own when they see how much something costs and how much it. eats into their budget, this can be very instructive for them. Something fun that I like to do is to give them a gift card and set them loose in the mall like a Visa or MasterCard gift card. You can even do a personal one from gift card granny. You can upload a photo and a message and then they can kind of run with it and have fun with it. So that is a great way for them to control the narrative, for them to choose what they're buying but also see that cause and effect that we talked about.

Bobbi Rebell:

Also, one thing that you talk about is student discounts. As kids get older, they can often access discounts that we don't... You have to be proactive about it. They don't just hand them to you, but they have to learn to ask and advocate for themselves.

Trae:

right. And this is a little bit tricky because a lot of public schools don't give out their student IDs if they do it all until the school year starts. So if you are a student at a public school and you're doing your back-to-school shopping now, you can't take advantage of student discounts unless the retailer has kind of an open policy and you just tell them you're a student. Most retailers will ask for an ID. And so if you go to private school, you're much more likely to have that student ID that you can use or maybe even use last year's and then take advantage of those student discounts. And this applies specifically or usually for more tech items like Apple, for example, has a student discount. So ask there with your tech retailers if there's a discount that you can use for that laptop, for example, that they need.

Bobbi Rebell:

So what are some of the don'ts? We did some of the do's. What are the dangers and the things that we all fall into and how do we get out of them?

Trae:

Yeah, so there are so many. So let me choose a few. What retailers are really good at is creating a sense of urgency. And I really strongly suggest to be as mindful as possible to that. For example, buy three, get one free. That sounds awesome, but do you need four of that thing? Limited time sales, like Amazon's lightning deals, for example, you may see that savings and you think, oh my gosh, you have to get that thing right now. Take a beat, ask yourself, do you actually need that thing? Is it on your list? And then, like I mentioned before, kind of indulging your kids very pricey requests if they have to have that pair of sneakers, for example, and it's really important to them for their social status and their self-confidence. It's very tough as a parent to say no, but if it's above your budget and it's really going to make a dent, ask them to contribute a portion. Maybe you can get them to do some extra chores like mowing the lawn or weeding or... you know, doing helping you with grocery shopping, whatever it is, have them contribute and have some skin in the game for those pricier items if they really feel like they need them.

Bobbi Rebell:

So statistics are already showing that this year's back to school is going to be much pricier than it has been in recent years. What are some general shopping strategies, my friend, that we can incorporate? What new things are out there that we must be doing?

Trae:

Yeah, so, you know, there are a few things that I like to do to save for back to school in particular. These aren't necessarily new, but they are kind of my go-to's like buying in bulk. If you happen to have a Wholesale Club membership, it's a great time to use it, especially if you have multiple kids for your binders, pencils, pens. even backpacks, things like that at your Sam's Club BJ's Costco. I also say use your off price retailers. Don't ignore your dollar stores, for example. There are great dollar stores out there that have name brand items that you can get for a dollar or under in some cases. So that's a good way to kind of supplement your back to school shopping. And then in terms of utilizing technology, technology is your friend. So using price comparing tools like PayPal honey, for example, this is a really good browser extension that you can install and as you shop, it'll let you know if it's a high price right now or a low price right now. So you can do your shopping now or wait. Apps like that also have coupons and cash back opportunities. I also love coupon cabins, slick deals, Rakuten. pick which one you like the best and use it all the time consistently. And then many of these platforms have an in-store opportunity as well. Coupon Cabin in particular is the one that I like for in-store just because they have good solid in-store coupons that you can use very quickly on your phone, just by showing the barcode at checkout.

Bobbi Rebell:

So I want to ask you something based on that last answer. I didn't realize with these things, Rakuten and Honey and coupon cabin, you said pick one and use it consistently. Is that kind of like the airlines where you kind of want to put all your miles on one airline or the hotel loyalty where you want them all to be concentrated on one? Because that's something I never thought about.

Trae:

Great question. So as a shopping expert, I have way too many going at one time and it's totally overkill, but I do it for my own instruction just to have a sense of whether this one's better than that one. If you don't mind sort of lots of pop-ups coming up, I mean, you can definitely pick the best offer each time and then you'll just accrue funds in each one of those platforms as you go. But I would say if you don't like a lot of... sort of virtual noise happening when you're shopping. I say pick the one that seems to be the most user-friendly for you, and then you can accrue that money, like you said, like airline miles, and then you have a little pocket of fun money to use for something else down the road.

Bobbi Rebell:

And I love that. I do get checks. I'm not going to name favorites, but I do get checks every so often from one of those players. And I do love it. And it feels like free money. To that point, what… Oh gosh, right now I just lost my train of thought. Steve cut this part out. I'm just going to spend all the miles accruing. So when I'm shopping online especially, I constantly get these pop-ups, including when you're new to a website, to sign up for text, sign up for their

Trae:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

newsletter, get on their mailing list and you get 10%, 15%, and sometimes 20% off. I mean, at a certain point, it's over, I mean, how do you manage that? What are your tips for that? Is it worth

doing?

Trae:

so I would say yes with the retailers that you shop with frequently or if you're buying something expensive and if you're buying a new couch for your college student's room, for example, that's hundreds of dollars, right, or thousands of dollars. So you do wanna take advantage of those discounts, but you wanna be really mindful of not signing up for too many things. You may wanna unsubscribe afterwards, which I often do. So keep the things that you use regularly and receive those emails. I don't like to receive texts, frankly, from retailers, so I never opt in for that. And yes, I am leaving maybe a 10% discount on the table here and there, but I find that stressful to receive too many texts like that. So I think it's really a matter of what you can manage, what works for you. I do often suggest if you don't mind promotional emails and you like to kind of sift through them sometimes to set up a separate email address, and then that way. all of that promotional stuff ends up in one place. And then when you're in the mood on your couch with your glass of wine at night, you can go to it and just kind of scroll through and see what pertains to what you need to buy at that particular time, rather than like filling up your email box and causing you stress.

Bobbi Rebell:

I also want to get your perspective on those cookies. We get those pop-ups to accept the cookies. First of all, do we have to accept them? And is there, I kind of feel like we're being, I feel like I'm always being followed no matter what. So it's a losing game no matter what you do. But I have mixed feelings because I feel like if you look, let's say you look at one item that you really want to buy, it's gonna follow you. They just follow you with pop-ups of that item. Indefinitely, it seems. Is that good or bad? Because maybe then by them knowing you want it, you might get a discount. good thing, or should we just not accept the cookies? And what happens if we don't accept it? Do we then not, are we not able to shop there?

Trae:

Yeah, that's so tough. You know, I don't know the answer to whether we're able to shop there or not because I always accept the cookies. I mean, I shop for a living, right? So like if anyone’s following me, they're just dizzy. Like they, you know, I met on Amazon a million times a day because I'm doing it for my work. And so I just accept all the cookies. And frankly, to your point, like I've been served up offers and opportunities to save because they do know what I'm looking for. So,I'm not a naturally suspicious person, so I don't think they're just like, they're tracking me and following me, and they really care about what I personally am doing. Again, they would just be so confused by my, the, what I'm looking at. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think it's really a personal choice, but I have saved, and I have discovered things that I liked because I have accepted the cookies, and then I'm served up other things that are similar to what I'm looking at.

Bobbi Rebell:

I agree because it's tricky. I mean, like I said, I feel like the privacy thing is such a monumental issue to begin with that me clicking that I'm accepting cookies at a department store is not gonna move the needle and I might get a deal because of it. So I don't know.

Trae:

Yeah, and you know, it's an interesting point because a lot of people are suspicious and rightly so, but you know, like I said, I'm doing all of this stuff, like probably by multiples of an average consumer, and I've never been scammed online. So the time that I was scammed was at a store, and this became a known thing. If the retailer, employees put a device on top of the debit card reader, and they were stealing people's debit cards and pin codes. That's when I was scammed.

Bobbi Rebell:

Amazing advice as always, where can people follow up with you?

Trae:

You can find me at trutrae.com. I have a bi-monthly newsletter where I talk about saving money around across the year. And then also my Instagram, which is where I save, where I share shopping tips almost every day.

Bobbi Rebell:

And by the way, I just have to plug this. Your Instagram is like the best content. You're so good and everyone should follow Trae because I mean, it is a curated thought leadership stream of brilliant shopping information that will give you so much like extra things to think about and save so much money and get the things you want at the best prices. So. I personally enjoy it every day and you just, you really put a lot of effort into it. So it's an exceptional, it's not just to throw it up there, Instagram, this is what I'm eating for lunch. It is really great shopping advice. So please follow TrueTrae.

Trae:

Thank you so much Bobbi, that’s so sweet.

Bobbi Rebell:

Trae’s insta really is my go-to for all things shopping. She is so fun to watch and follow along with. So following Trae at TrueTrae on instagram is everyone’s extra credit assignment for this week. While you are at it please follow me as well at bobbirebell1.

If you are not already on my free substack newsletter- and want to improve your financial wellness- what are you waiting for? Go to BobbiRebell.substack.com and get on the list.

Big thanks to Trae Bodge for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanAugust 1, 2023Template

3 Bold Money Tips with Author Shanna Hocking Encore

Episode Description:

The author of One Bold Move a Day, leadership consultant Shanna Hocking shares specific actions we can all take to advance our careers and our financial goals and invest in peace of mind.

Shanna’s Bio:

Shanna A. Hocking is a leadership consultant, philanthropic advisor, author, and speaker with 20 years of experience raising hundreds of millions of dollars and leading large teams at organizations such as the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Alabama, and Duke University. Her clients include universities, national nonprofit organizations, global businesses, and family foundations. Shanna is the author of One Bold Move a Day: Meaningful Actions Women Can Take to Fulfill Their Leadership and Career Potential (McGraw Hill, November 2022), which was recognized as a November nominee of The Next Big Idea Club. Shanna's articles have been published on Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Fast Company, The Muse, and Motherly, and her expertise has been featured in Bloomberg News, PIX11 News, Entrepreneur, Chicago Tribune, Today.com, Insider, and The Business Journals, among others.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi:

The other day I was watching our local news and there was a story that came on about using confetti- yes confetti- to de-stress. And I have to admit it was pretty appealing. By the way it's called the confetti project if you want to look it up. But guess what is the top thing that we stress about. Ok well given that you are listening to this you know the answer. It is money. According to the American Psychological Association, money continues to be the top source of stress for Americans. That’s where Financial Wellness Strategies comes in. We provide educational resources for companies employees to balance financial wealth with mental health. Financial literacy is important but we need to go beyond academics and learn how it all actually fits into our real lives- and what we want to accomplish with our hard-earned money. Learn more about how you and your company can invest in peace of mind at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com
Welcome everyone to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell. I run Financial Wellness Strategies which provides financial wellness programs to companies for their employees. I also have written a couple of books about being a financial grownup - thus the name of this podcast.

Every week we share a quote that I hope will get everyone thinking. This week’s is by author Zig Ziglar

“You don’t have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.”

It fits perfectly into the theme I want everyone to have top of mind as we move towards fall. Maybe think about one bold move.

Which brings me to the interview I am going to share this week.

Leadership consultant and philanthropic advisor Shanna Hocking is the host of the One Bold Move a Day podcast and the author of a new book by that same name. But what I love most about her is that she walks the walk when it comes to the bold moves- she is candid about the things that slipped through the cracks, about the experiences she has learned from- and as an author I will tell you - her book is the real deal. It is endorsed not only by Adam Grant who wrote Think again and hosts the Ted podcast Work Life- but also by many of my personal friends that have been on this podcast including top workplace strategists Erica Keswin , Whitney Johnson and Dorie Clark. We'll leave links to their episodes in the show notes of course.

And after the interview- I'm going to share the one bold move that Shanna made to connect to me!

Here is Shanna Hocking.

Shanna Hocking, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shanna:

Thanks, Bobbi. I'm so glad to be here.

Bobbi:

I'm glad to finally get you here, especially for our first episode of 2023, because you are the author of my new favorite book, One Bold Move a Day, perfect for New Year's. So thank you for being here.

Shanna:

I am excited to have this conversation together.

Bobbi:

And this is kind of putting a bow on the fact that you have a podcast by the same name that has over 250 episodes. Congratulations on that. I want everyone to check it out. It has, well, 250 episodes first of all, but it's like a binge happy podcast because they're all six minutes; so great.

Shanna:

It was a labor of love, and I'm delighted that people enjoy it, and six minutes is great. Like you said, you can listen to one or listen to five.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and some of the topics are so awesome, especially if you're working remotely. First of all, I love the episode about virtual icebreakers. You also have a number of episodes about connecting with people when they're not there, and just also, of course, the bold moves that you can do every day. So on that note, let's just start. Explain the concept of One Bold Move a Day, because that's sort of your overarching theme to inspire people in your leadership business.

Shanna:

So when people hear bold moves, they often think the all caps text to your best friend or something that would go on a billboard, and the way that I define bold moves is it's a meaningful action that helps you learn, move forward, and grow, which helps you understand how it's possible to make a bold move every day, and sometimes, yes, they're moving across the country, or taking a new job, or asking for a promotion, and other times, it's meeting someone for the first time, or saying hello to someone in a coffee shop, or correcting when someone mispronounces your name.

Bobbi:

Ooh, that's a big one. How do you do that?

Shanna:

Well, I think it's coming from the idea that you believe that you belong wherever you are, whether it's at the table, in the room, and you feel that there is something that you can learn from this experience. So I spent a long time of my life not telling people how to correctly pronounce my name, and it wasn't until the pandemic when everything was virtual and on Zoom, and I started adding, "Shanna, rhymes with Donna," on my Zoom, because I wanted to give people the grace. People want to say your name right, but it still feels really uncomfortable to correct people, and so instead of thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I'm telling them they did it wrong," I think, "I'm valuing myself," and that's my bold move today.

Bobbi:

Excellent. You brought with you three bold grownup money tips for the new year that you're going to share with us. The first one is something that's really tricky that I know I have shied away from.

Shanna:

So talking about your salary with others.

Bobbi:

Mm-hmm.

Shanna:

We were raised, particularly as women in our generation, to not talk about money. It was considered a bad thing, which is why I love that you are openly talking about money and helping people feel more comfortable about it, because money is power, and talking about your salary helps you to understand what your market value is, and this is something that if you negotiate, as I'm sure you've said many times, if you negotiate at the beginning of your career, you're setting yourself up for future success. So though I didn't do this early in my career, because, of course, nice girls don't talk about money, over time, I have really stretched to be able to have conversations about money, and it started when someone who was a mentor to me shared with me her exact salary, which was mind-blowing. This woman, who's been in her career for 30 years, she told me what she was making, and it helped me feel confident to ask for the number I felt like I deserved, and I've tried to pay that forward to others.

Bobbi:

How does that even come up? Can you recall that conversation? Are you just chatting away, having lunch, and like, "Oh, by the way, I make this amount." I mean, how does that happen? Because I don't feel like that comes up in my general conversation with my friends, or my business colleagues, and contacts, et cetera.

Shanna:

You're right; this is not something that is just like a lunchtime conversation, although I do hear that this is much more common for millennials and Gen Z. The stigma around money is not as present for them, and I wonder about this for your stepdaughter. Is this something that they're talking about at lunchtime, though you and I might not have before we had this conversation? So what I loved so much was that I said to her, "Do you have a sense of the range for this kind of position on the market?" And she responded by saying, "Well, I'm just going to tell you what my exact salary is."

It really shocked me, and I was even nervous to say, "Do you know what the range is?" And so I think what we have to do is kind of come up with our conversation starters in order to make these bold move money moves to be able to say, "You know what? I'm going up for a new position, and I really want to make sure that I'm being appropriately paid. Would you be willing to share with me either your salary or the range that you're aware of in the market?" And let them say no or yes; much more likely they're going to be able to give you some kind of answer that will be helpful.

Bobbi:

Yeah, and I think the key is the context, and really having a purpose, that it's not like you're just being nosy or want to pry into their business; there's a real reason, and there's a sense that you will also return the favor, and give them mutual information when it's appropriate in that way, and that brings us to your second money tip for grownups coming into the new year, which has to do with negotiation.

Shanna:

So negotiation is something that just like talking about money with your friends, talking about money with your boss and with your organization doesn't necessarily feel like a comfortable conversation to have either. I remember thinking about how I was going to prepare for a promotion, and having conversations and practicing this with my best friend for months. She was also going up for promotion at the same time, and so we chose to be accountability partners and supporting each other. "How will you handle this part? What will you say here? How do you even know what the appropriate salary is to ask for?"

I think there's a lot of information available on the internet that can give you a sense of what the market has to offer, and then having those conversations, those brave, bold move conversations with people that you respect, and then being willing to say, "This is, based on my research, this is the salary that I think is appropriate for this position," and what's important is that I didn't say this is the salary that's appropriate for me, because it's almost like you're not even a part of this, even though of course it's about you. This is about getting paid appropriately for the role, and the value that you bring to the company, and keeping focused on that like you are providing a value takes out some of the personal emotions that we all feel when we're asking for something for ourselves.

Bobbi:

And that's interesting, because it does give you wiggle room, because there may be a time when I know I took a pay cut once making a career transition, and it was really hard, but I had to sort of understand that's what the market paid for that, because I was pivoting within my career, and looking back, it does make a lot of sense, because it's not always personal. It is what the market costs, but also, there's the balance of what that company can pay, and sometimes, you have to make a decision, because the company maybe can't afford to pay the "market rate." Maybe their business isn't so strong, and so you have to discuss with them whether it makes sense to be paying you under market, but maybe you say it out loud, "I will take this job being paid under market, but maybe there are other ways you can make it up to me," maybe with incentive plans, and things like that, to kind of put it out there, right?

Shanna:

Absolutely. There's so much more that goes into a job choice than just the salary alone. So do you feel like you can thrive there? Are you going to be able to learn? Will your manager support and value you? Will you enjoy working with your colleagues? How does this fit into who you want to become? Money, of course, is a part of that. It's how we pay our bills, it's how we enjoy our life, but it's not the only part, and I think it's great that you're mentioning the other things beyond the actual take-home pay that can contribute to your financial wellbeing and the things that you get from that company in exchange for the value that you provide.

Bobbi:

All right, money tip number three has to do with giving back.

Shanna:

Well, this is something that's really special and important to me. I started my career in fundraising. I found my dream career at age 18, and to work in fundraising when you're 18 is slightly unusual. I loved it. It was everything that I wanted to do. Philanthropy is about helping to make things possible, and aligning it with what is important to other people, and so this idea that we all have a responsibility to give back is so important, and I really believe when you give from the heart is where you find joy. I always tell donors that I work with or clients that I work with the point here is going to be just stretch until it feels like this is more than I might have expected, and that's where the joy really happens. It's so intentional, and it's so action-oriented, and it doesn't matter if you're giving away $100 million or a dollar, whatever is appropriate to you, this is an opportunity for you to make a difference in your community and have the legacy that you want to have, too.

Bobbi:

And I like that you're stressing it's what's appropriate for you, because sometimes we do have friends that may contribute at different levels, higher or lower, and it's important to be supportive of the ones that may share with you that they're contributing at a lower level, and also not to feel pressure from the ones at a higher level. They often really aren't concerned. Nobody's judging you, except they're supporting the fact that you are participating, because we do get asked by so many friends during the year that are doing different fundraising things.

You want to show support; it doesn't have to be a lot of money, and one thing that I've done is I've put aside sort of a fund for the year that I'm going to spend X dollars supporting my friends' charitable causes, where you might give $25, $50, maybe $100 if they're running a race, or something like that. So you're contributing, and then you can say, "This is what I have from my budget for these things," and just make it personal, but maybe a little bit also like, "But this is what I have to do for my financial wellness."

Shanna:

I love it, and what I think is so great, Bobbi, is that you have set this aside. It's very intentional, it's very purposeful. When I'm working with philanthropic advisory clients, what I say to them is, "What is it that you want to accomplish with your money? What is important to you? Let's start there," and then you can set aside what other people are going to ask you for, the friends that you want to support, and if you're very clear from the beginning about what causes and organizations you want to support, then it becomes easier at the times when other people are asking you for things to say, "I've already dedicated my budget to that particular cause for this year."

Bobbi:

Love that. All right, before I let you go, I want to talk to you a little bit more about this book, One Bold Move a Day. Like I said, capping off your 250 podcast episodes, podcast by the same name. What's your favorite story from the book?

Shanna:

Oh, well, I'm often asked what my favorite bold move is from the book, and it's like choosing amongst your children. I would think-

Bobbi:

Oh, gosh.

Shanna:

So the one that really resonates with what I've learned throughout my career that I think is a way to pay it forward and start making your own bold moves is the Atta Girl folder. When I was an intern in college, I was 19 for a job I cold-called to get, and my mentor came over to me with a plain manila folder, and she said to me, "This is your Atta Girl folder." I was 19 years old. I didn't even know what that meant, and what she told me was that I was going to put in it the notes and accolades that I received throughout my career, and to look back on it on the hard days, and she said, "There will be hard days."

So I dutifully took the folder, and was like, "Well, I trust my mentor; she's amazing, and my boss, and I will certainly use this," and Bobbi, it has been the most treasured thing that I have brought through every office move, that I have made every career move. I have it sitting right behind me on my bookshelf. I now have an email folder as well as a paper folder, because the times have changed so much, and it is really valuable to look back at on your hard days, to remember what you have already accomplished, and the value you bring to the world, and so my encouragement is for everyone to start their bold move folder, their Atta Girl folder, whatever they want to call it, and start remembering and celebrating their progress.

Bobbi:

Such great advice going into a new year, where so many people are hoping to make job changes. There's some statistics out there. I think 50% of people are thinking they want to change their job in 2023. So it's important to bring along those good accolades and remember, because I think looking for a job can sometimes feel like you're being rejected, when really, there's a bunch of stories. We don't have time to go into it, but there's some very poignant stories, even very personal to you, about rejection earlier in your career, and learning that sometimes the other person maybe was more qualified; sometimes it had nothing to do with you. Maybe sometimes they never even saw your resume. Whatever it is, don't get down, stay on the path, and go for your goals in 2023. Shanna Hocking, hopefully I said your name correctly, because I know you'll correct me if I don't, tell us more about where people can catch up with you, buy your book, listen... Well, your podcast is everywhere, and just be in touch, because I know that you do amazing stuff, especially for women looking to advance their careers.

Shanna:

Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I would love to continue the conversation with others. You can find me at ShannaAHocking.com, and my book, One Bold Move a Day, is available anywhere you like to buy books, and there's more information about it on my website as well.

Bobbi:

Thank you so much.

Shanna:

Thank you.

Bobbi:

I did not realize it until after our interview was over- but my connection to Shanna was actually one of her Bold Moves!

When authors get book deals, they are announced in the Publishers Marketplace. The day mine was published I got a DM on instagram from Shanna congratulating me- and noting that her book deal was right next to mine! It was so nice! Then a few months later I got an email that said "We exchanged a note on IG a few months ago when our new books were in Publisher's Marketplace on the same day and I noticed your announcement next to mine--so exciting! I'd welcome the chance to connect further and learn more about your work.

What's the best way to schedule 30 minutes with you?

And we did. fast forward more than a year and I now consider her a friend.

So your extra credit assignment this week is- you guessed it- to make one bold move.

DM me on instagram at bobbirebell1 and let me know what it is!

Make sure to pick up Shanna’s book “One Bold Move”
Big thanks to Shanna Hocking for helping us be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

To get even more out of this podcast, make sure you are also on our newsletter list to get more free content to live your best financial lives. There is a link in the show notes but you can also sign up at bobbirebell.com or at financialwellnessstrategies.com. And be a friend- share the podcast with your friends by taking a screenshot and sharing it on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram at bobbirebell1. And while you’re there- follow me- and if you DM me that you listen to the podcast I will follow you back. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And finally, my grownup friends, don’t forget to invest in peace of mind. Thanks, everyone.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanAugust 1, 2023Template

Grownup Money Zen and finding your enough with Manisha Thakor

Episode Description: Author Manisha Thakor returns to the podcast to share insights from her new book Money Zen: The Secret to Finding Your Enough

Video Highlight: Manisha Thakor with a comment that blew my mind!

Manisha Thakor’s Bio:

Manisha Thakor has worked in financial services for over thirty years, with an emphasis on women’s economic empowerment and financial wellbeing. A nationally recognized thought-leader in this space, Thakor has been featured in a wide range of publications including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, NPR, PBS, CNN, CNBC, Real Simple, and Women’s Health. Prior to writing MoneyZen, Thakor co-authored two personal finance books for women in their twenties and thirties. Today her work focuses on helping individuals of all ages to balance financial health and emotional wealth. Thakor earned her MBA from Harvard Business School, her BA from Wellesley College and is both a Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) and a Certified Financial Planner (CFP). She splits her time between Portland, Oregon and rural Maine. Her website is MoneyZen.com

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Manisha Thakor!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:

When it comes to money, I think we can all agree we can never know too much- or if we are being honest have too much but let’s focus here my friends. According to the Society for Human Resource Management the majority of working Americans indicate that the personalization of seminars and webinars on investing basics and financial planning is important to them. And in that same survey they add quote “Employers would be wise to add or expand desirable benefits like financial wellness to attract and retain talent”- in other words- companies need to step it up if they want to get the best people on their team. Financial Wellness Strategies is the solution. We provide the top of the line financial wellness programs for employees to create financial grownups who focus on their jobs, because they know they are in control of their personal finances. Learn more and get in touch at financialwellnessstrategies.com. That’s financialwellnessstrategies.com- The time is now to invest in peace of mind.

Sometimes things just come together and that is the case this week. Stay with me. But first welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I am your host Bobbi Rebell. Certified Financial Planner, author of Launching Financial Grownups. I also run Financial Wellness Strategies- please consider us for your employee events - workshops webinars and so on. I’m also happy to come speak about my book.

But first we are going to be speaking about Money Zen. That is the book my friend Manisha Thakor just wrote. The full title is Money Zen: The Secret to Finding Your Enough”

And for this week’s quote It is from Ellen DeGeneres: "You don't need money to be happy, but you need it to pay the bills."

A lot of us talk about how money will not make us happy- and leave it there. But just because the money won’t make us happy does NOT mean we don't’ need it- we need it to pay bills! In other words, never say its not about the money- we need the money. Let’s just not tie that to happiness.

And that’s where Manisha comes in. She is founder of Money Zen a joy-based approach to helping people feel calm, confidence and clarity about the role that money plays in their lives -- so they can create lives that are in alignment with their deepest values.- thus the name of her newest book Money Zen The Secret to finding your Enough. Other books include ON MY OWN TWO FEET: a modern girl’s guide to personal finance and GET FINANCIALLY NAKED: how to talk money with your honey. She has spent 25 years in the financial services industry and has lots of fancy titles and accomplishments like MBA, CFA and CFP - too much to include them all - did I mention Harvard. She’s amazing and I was so excited to dive into this latest book.

Here is Manisha Thakor.

Manisha Thakur, you are a financial grownup, one of my very favorites in fact that I had to have you back, welcome.

Manisha Thakor:

It is always a pleasure to get to chat with you

Bobbi Rebell:

This is going to be quite the conversation because we're going to be talking about your new book, which was so relatable to me and I know it will be to so many of our listeners. It is called Money Zen, the secret to finding your enough. And there's kind of a double entendre because it's secret to finding your enough, like enough stuff, but also that you are enough.

Manisha Thakor:

Exactly. I wanted the book to resonate with anyone who's ever felt like it's never enough in a variety of different ways. I'm not doing enough. I'm not accomplishing enough. Or I'm just not enough. There's so many different ways in which a never enough mindset can permeate our lives in modern society.

Bobbi Rebell:

this is going to resonate with so many of us because I know that I always feel that way. It's interesting. People come up to me and they say, oh my gosh, you're so busy. I can't believe all that you're doing. And I think I feel like I'm not actually doing anything, which brings me to, I think my favorite sort of zinger line in your book, although there's going to be more favorites. You say we are human beings, not human doings, but we always feel like we need to be doing more or maybe at least people like me.

Manisha Thakor:

No, I mean, I think it is so widespread. We are in a culture that tells us you need to do these things in order to have these things, in order to be happy. And so it is incredibly easy to develop a very toxic relationship with work and money and accomplishments, striving. in all sorts of realms of our lives. And in my research for the book, one of the things I found is this affects people of a, I mean, huge range of age, income, professions, ethnicities, geographies. It is really, I think, kind of the unspoken issue behind all of this, like burnout and... exhaustion and some of the other trends that are kind of hitting the zeitgeist right now. I think this is what is at the root cause.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that. And you know, this book, on the surface, looks like a personal finance book, but you don't have money tips. You're not having solutions. You're really addressing what at the heart gets to us about money, why we have such a huge amount of anxiety, and why now we're talking so much more about financial wellness rather than just financial literacy. Financial literacy, yeah, you may know. You do need to know, of course, how your basic finances work, but that's not going to make you happy ultimately, and that's not going to give you a feeling of financial security. There's so much more.

Manisha Thakor:

Yes, and you know, there's a study that I know both of us have heard for ages, just doing what we do, which is the number that, you know, once you earn more than $75,000, it doesn't increase your happiness. That's the threshold. And there's some fascinating new research that's come out of Penn, University of Penn in collaboration with Princeton that says, well, actually, that study is totally wrong, but it's not. wrong for the reason people will think. It's not wrong for everyone who's saying, I live on the East Coast and I have a family of four. Are you on crack to think that $75,000 is going to make me happy? It's wrong because once you've met your very basic needs, kind of the Maslow's hierarchy of the needs, basic food, basic shelter, basic transportation, If you do not have a base of emotional wellness underlying that, no matter how much more you earn and are able to accumulate beyond your most guttural needs, it's not going to have a really meaningful long-term effect on your life satisfaction. And so personally, I feel like that was one of the pieces I'd been missing in my 30-year career in financial services. I kept thinking information, financial advice was the answer and I could help people solve money problems like I've got too many student loan, too much student loan debt, I don't know how much house to buy, I don't know what kind of insurance to get. Those are money problems but what is missing, the missing link between money and happiness is that we need to address money worries. And that's where financial wellness comes in. That's why this is not a personal finance book. That's why this is a book that looks at what are the underlying causes, and they're multidisciplinary, that can drive a person to have a never-enough mindset. And then how do we flip that script so that you can live a life of financial health and emotional wealth?

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, you gave me the perfect opening there because a lot of this comes from your personal experiences with wealth and your health. You literally made yourself sick with a lot of these. Give us some context. Really, even starting from when you were growing up, you had feelings of inadequacy and that led you to this striver mentality where you were buying different things to fit in different cultures. And then you actually could identify that in different settings, there were different markers of success and what worked in one setting didn't work in another, which basically exposed. how ridiculous it all was.

Manisha Thakor:

Yeah, well, you know, there's a term I like, small t traumas. And it refers to the kinds of things that can happen to us before age 25 when our brains are fully formed that can deeply imprint on us, even though on the surface, they may seem remarkably small. So, you know, like many people, I was bullied in grade school and... I grew up in a small town in Indiana and I was mixed race and chubby and coke bottle glasses and I just didn't fit in. And that drove me to seek acceptance somewhere else because my peers rejected me. And you know, at that age, you're in school. So I sought it through academics and pleasing my teachers. And then you fast forward to being a grownup. And academics gets replaced by work and you get rewarded not by grades, but by money. And then you step into that world and you start to learn about the peacock feathers, the signaling that we use to indicate to each other in the grownup world about how successful we are. And oftentimes, they can be for women, the status handbag, the right shoes. And to your point about it being different in different places, one of the things, when we come back to this, I had gotten very caught up in that world. But one of the things that was really ironic was when I was in New York a lot for work, there was a certain, it really was my jewelry, my bags, my heels. And then I happened to move to Santa Fe, New Mexico, where you look ridiculous wearing New York clothes. And in Santa Fe, it was, did you have the right cowboy boots? What was the material? Was it leather or was it ostrich? And then, you know, the jewelry was, you know, how much turquoise, do you have a turquoise belt? Which is like, you'd never wear in New York. And so the things that people judged each other by, changed, but the fact that we were that we are living in a world where so often we judge people's insides by their outsides, that does not change. And that really, in a lot of different ways, gets to the crux of this never enough mindset that many of us kind of, I would almost say it's a cult that we get sucked into.

Bobbi Rebell:

The book is very revealing about your own struggles with this. In fact, at one point you were struggling so much to keep up the pace as a workaholic. By the way, you also talk about in the book that workaholics don't necessarily achieve more. Anyway, you were very much a workaholic early in your career. You recall a time when you were on a plane and a stranger gave you pills that you took not even knowing what they were. Tell us about that. I mean, that to me was the oh my goodness. That is just hustle culture gone too far.

Manisha Thakor:

Exactly. So at that point in my career, I was working for an institutional asset management firm and I had an idea for a new distribution channel and I was building it out and I was rocking it and the channel was bringing in literally billions of assets under management into the firm. But it was requiring me to be on a plane literally once every three to four days for almost a decade. And towards the end of that period, I was sitting on the plane and you rack up a lot of frequent flyer miles when you travel that much. So I was in seat 1B. And I remember I had my paper strewn all over the tray table and tears were just streaming down my face. And I was thinking, I was on my way, I was from Houston to New York. And I remember thinking like. I don't know how I'm gonna make it through all the meetings that I have in the next two days. And a woman who I actually, she worked in the industry, so I'd seen her before and I knew of her, but we'd never talked, we weren't friends. And she was extremely elegant and put together and she saw that I was so distressed and she came up and she leaned down next to me and opened up this. beautiful silver pill box and you know she said here take this um you know it'll help and it was a little yellow pill and i mean at that point i didn't even ask what the freaking thing was i just swallowed it um turned out it was valium um and it turned out it did help me um at least get off that plane and stop crying but that's the mental state that i was in that i literally I was so overwhelmed, it never occurred to me to ask what she was giving me.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah, that says it all. All right, before we wrap up, you talk about being able to define your enough. What is your enough, my friend?

Manisha Thakor:

To me, I... When I think about the life that I want, it is full of simplicity and small joys. And I'll just tell a brief story around this because it's kind of ironic. I spent my junior year at Oxford and on the way back from England, I was kind of reflecting on what I had learned over the year and how I had changed. And on a little cocktail napkin, I had sketched out a triangle. And... I was at the top of the triangle, I wrote the word simplicity, and I wanted that to be the guiding anchor of my life. And in the bottom left-hand corner, I wrote small joys, and in the bottom right-hand corner, I wrote financial independence. And I did that because I wanted to make sure that I had the ability financially to be stable enough. that I could experience and have space for small joys and simplicity. But my triangle got tilted after I graduated and pretty soon it was upside down and the focal point was financial independence and I completely lost track of the simplicity and small joys. And the book, Money's End, is designed to help people understand if any of what we're talking about resonates. how they got off track. Because if you don't understand how, it's really hard to then implement the answers, the two-step process I describe in the book to understanding what is enough from a financial health standpoint so that you can then put your bounty and your effort and your heart and soul into building emotional wealth, which is where so many of us end up having that disconnection between money and happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:

And we're out of time, but I do want to encourage people to read the book because what I would be asking you about next, here's a teaser, is how we're all impacted by these images that we see on social media and by the fictional money images and money stories that were told through various forms of the media, characters that live unrealistic lives, and we could go on and on. But I want to give you a chance to tell everybody where they can find out more about you. I know that Money's End is going to be available everywhere.

Manisha Thakor:

in all the normal places, but if people wanna learn a little bit more about the book, you can go to moneyzenbook.com. And if you wanna take a fun quiz to kind of see where you are on this whole spectrum, just go to moneyzenquiz.com.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much.

Manisha Thakor:

Bobby, it's always great to be chatting with you.

Bobbi Rebell:

So what is your enough my friends? For this week’s extra credit assignment let’s all think about that and if you have a few minutes- write it down and hang it up somewhere you can see it- even a post it- when you are feeling less than enough.

Next question: Did you find yourself dreaming about winning the powerball lottery when it got to a billion dollars recently? In my most recent newsletter I wrote about how we all won the lottery by just being in the U.S. with all the economic opportunities we have and got a lot of amazing comments back from so many of you- so thank you. I also shared my recent appearance sharing tips on money windfalls. Did you know the vast majority of lottery winners lose it all? If you did not get my newsletter- its free so what are you waiting for? Sign up at bobbirebell.substack.com.

Loved this interview and all the great perspectives- the whole transcript is on my website along with links so just go to bobbirebell.com for those show notes.

And as always so great to have Manisha Thakor on- she did a great job helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJuly 25, 2023

Grownups will own nothing with author Carol Roth

Episode Description: Carol Roth, shares how a seemingly simple premise from the World Economic Forum, that we will own nothing and be happy, could become a reality. We discuss the potential impact and consequences of owning nothing on wealth and financial independence.

Video Highlight: Roth Carol

Carol Roth’s Bio: Carol Roth is a “recovering” investment banker; entrepreneur; TV pundit and host; speaker; economic, business, and financial commentator; content developer; and New York Times bestselling author. Her books include The Entrepreneur Equation, The War on Small Business and now, You Will Own Nothing (out 7/18/23).

Carol has worked in a variety of capacities across industries, including currently as an outsourced chief customer officer (CCO), as a director on public and private company boards, and as a strategic advisor and C-level consigliere. Carol connects the dots on financial, business, and economic issues for novice and pro audiences alike. She is also the creator of the Future File legacy planning system and software (FutureFile.com). Carol advocates for small business, small government, and big hair. Coming from a blue-collar family, Carol has worked hard to seize the American Dream, and is fighting to preserve that opportunity for all Americans.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Carol Roth!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Being a financial grownup is hard- That’s why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PwC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative impact on their overall health and well-being. Money stress is expensive for companies- workers are less productive and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about finances. As if health care costs weren’t already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control their finances. Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real-life money stuff.

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”.

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I am your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell- author of Launching Financial Grownups and founder of Financial Wellness Strategies.

This may be the most controversial episode I have done on this podcast- and I keep politics out of it but I will warn you there is an undercurrent you might sense. I have some pretty strong views on this topic that may surprise some of you.

But first- a little backstory. I used to do rent the runway, pre pandemic when I was not working from home and frankly got out a lot more. I loved being able to wear something and then return it and get more options. I was a heavy user. And yes there was some bad fashion in the mix of some great looks. But when the pandemic hit, and the bags stopped arriving at my home, I looked at my closet, and it was kinda sad. I didn’t have much. I started thinking- did I save money by renting and returning all those clothes? And what did all that dry cleaning cost the environment? I’m guessing I spent about the same amount of money all in. Was the empty closet a sign I had wasted money? Or was it good that I got to enjoy all that renting and non-commitment? I mean most clothing does not hold its value as we all know if we try to sell it.

But this week’s guest got me revisiting how I really felt about not owning things that I used to own. Like software. Remember buying disks or paying for a download. You owned it. Now you pay subscription fees that never end. And you are effectively trapped. If I just stop paying for say, Microsoft word, what would happen? The system I use to keep track of clients has a monthly fee. It will never end. I’m not sure what will happen if I stop paying. Will my information no longer be accessible? And the same thing for countless things I used to own. The bills never end. These companies own me. And my data.

Something to think about.

This week’s guest is Carol Roth. And I asked her to come back on the podcast to talk about her new book “You Will Own Nothing,' she investigates what would happen if a new financial world order took hold, one in which global elites own everything and individuals own nothing.

So this week’s quote is from Robert Kiyosaki "The rich have money to work for them. Buying or building assets that deliver cash flow is putting your money to work for you"

Given how happy we all are with the flexibility and often lower costs of renting our homes, leasing cars, renting clothing, and taking our Ubers, this interview is going to get you talking and really thinking about how little you may actually own and how our priorities are shifting. Is it or is it, not a good thing.?

Here is Carol Roth, author of You Will Own Nothing.

Carol Roth, welcome back to the podcast. You are a financial grownup, so great to see you.

Carol Roth:

So fantastic to be back with you, Bobby. I'm very excited about our discussion today.

Bobbi Rebell:

I am excited to talk about your newest book, You Will Own Nothing. And if people see the video of this, you can see that you've got a lot of words crossed out like a house, a car, a business, stocks, and then of course your life. This is a very provocative book, and I will tell you, one of the reasons I had to have you on was that we talk here about financial wellness, and one thing that I think gives people a real sense of financial wellness is a sense of ownership, a sense of financial security. And you've raised a lot of questions about the future of this. So tell us about the premise of the book.

Carol Roth:

So probably a few years ago on social media, I was browsing around and I came across some people talking about this video from the World Economic Forum. If you're not familiar with the World Economic Forum, it's littered with the business and political elite. They go to Davos, they hobnob, they talk about ideas. And they had these eight predictions for 2030. And their number one prediction was, supposedly you'll own nothing, and you'll be happy. And I'm like... Okay, there's no way there's no way that the business and political leaders saying, you know, in a matter of years The private property is going to end Twitter must have gotten it wrong. Facebook must have gotten it wrong and it did not take very much research to find that yes, that was their number one prediction And it was really staggering to me. You know, just as you said as somebody who has been advocating for wealth creation opportunities for individuals for over a quarter of a century now, I know that wealth comes from ownership, right? You own assets, hopefully, that at least retain their value, even better, they appreciate in value, and that's what drives wealth for people. So, the idea that you would have people who are very well connected, all of a sudden pushing that there isn't going to be this opportunity and that somehow you would be happy, is very, stands very starkly in opposition to what I know to be true. And also, throughout history, the people who did not have ownership and didn't have property, they were all very unfree and unhappy, so to speak.

Bobbi Rebell:

It's interesting because the way that we approach what we spend our money on is really evolving these days and you have a lot of younger people, and I'm going to stereotype a little bit, that focus on experiences over owning stuff, which actually has a lot of merit. Absolutely. We think that can be great and we don't support just buying a bunch of junk and being hoarders. However, there's also a new perspective that maybe we don't need to, let's say, own a car. And so for example, I have a neighbor. that doesn't own a car because he did the math. He's in his 20s but very financially successful and he goes up to play golf in the suburbs probably every weekend and he just takes an Uber. And because he did the math, again, very responsibly and figured out that it doesn't make financial sense to own a car. And yet, multiplied by many different things like he also rents his apartment. I'm sure if he has software systems that he uses for his daily life, he's now on software as a service. We used to own. a program, we'd buy it, it would get outdated. So there's a lot of good things about constantly updating. We want to be clear about that. But here you have someone who's Gen Z probably, and he probably doesn't own a lot, and he's happy. So what's going on and what's wrong with that?

Carol Roth:

So there has been this sort of training of the younger generation to get away from the concept of ownership. And I think that people need to understand the difference, which I know you educate people on, between spending and investing. You know, a car is an asset, but it's a depreciating asset, you know, other than perhaps some collector's cars or during that weird period during COVID when everything was going through the roof. But normally that depreciates over time. We're talking about the kinds of assets that have the opportunity to appreciate. And we're also talking about free choice, right? He has the choice to make whether or not he owns that car. It's not being made for him quite yet, but certainly there is movement in that direction. So, you know, from that standpoint, we can go, okay, you know, that makes sense. But in terms of renting his house, you know, that's a different story because we know a home is the symbol of the American dream and there's a reason for it. Houses... are the largest assets on household balance sheets on a dollar basis across all households and across almost every demographic group. So when you think about the American dream being symbolized by a house, it's because that's how most people earn their wealth. So if he's taking the money and he's giving it to somebody else, instead of putting equity into something that he actually has the opportunity to own, that may feel really good and easy today. but what happens in 10 years when the rents go up and all of a sudden he's spending more and more money and the equation doesn't make sense in his head and he realizes that he's now taken that money and created wealth for somebody else and that he has none. What does that end up looking like?

Bobbi Rebell:

This book is very well-researched. And one thing that you talk about is that millennials actually on an inflation-adjusted basis do earn more than the older generations, but yet housing is unaffordable. And that is being framed as something different to kind of ease the pain because of a whole big societal shift in who's actually owning all these houses. To some degree, yes, it's the Gen Xers and the Boomers, but there's other stuff going on.

Carol Roth:

This was probably the piece of research that blew me away the most when I was researching for the book. The fact that, you know, I thought it was just inflation that was making the millennials and the younger generation's salaries bigger. But the research showed Kevin Drumm, who did the original analysis, showed on an inflation-adjusted basis, like you said, that millennials were earning more than Gen X or boomers at the midpoint of age 40, but at the same time had fewer assets. And so if you think about something like housing, there are two sides to the story. One of them is that Fed and government policy has completely upended the housing market and made housing much more expensive. They gave, after 15 years of easy money policy, they gave lots of cheap capital to investors. And they also underbuilt coming out of the Great Recession financial crisis when they forced a bunch of people to have their homes foreclosed on or short sale them. And so there's a huge demand and supply-demand imbalance in the market. So with all this cheap capital, Wall Street, who was looking for places to invest, ran out of places. And in 2010, for the very first time ever, institutional capital came into the single family home market. So now Wall Street is competing with you to buy a home. And as of the end of last year, the statistics said about one in every five homes is now being bought by a corporate investor. And what they're doing is not flipping them and trying to make them better and getting them to you. They're trying to wrench you the American dream. They're trying to get you to buy into this convenience and this being happy so that they can make the money at your expense. So we have that. We also have a lot of regulations that preclude the building of houses, make it harder to build. It's the state and local level. There's a ton of regulations that add almost $100,000 to the median price of the sort of average home in America. So there are all these things that are forces that are making housing more expensive, but we said millennials were earning more. So why is it that they can't bridge that gap? Well, their personal balance sheets have also been crushed by the cost of college. And ever since the government nationalized the student lending, that has really created a wealth transfer from young people to colleges and their administrators. And college costs have gone up five to eight, depending on the statistic, times the GDP and wages. So you're getting these colleges that have no skin in the game. You have very young people who are taking out huge loans for colleges that they can't afford or that aren't producing the right return on investment for them. There's no underwriting, there's no bankruptcy. And so you basically have these ruined balance sheets. So it's one thing to say that income is higher, but we're not talking about the other side of that, which is the balance sheet costs, the heavy debt loads that some of these young people never get out in front of. So between the two of them, these crushed balance sheets that delay being able to make the investment and the houses going up, you have sort of this institutional drive to make sure that you own nothing. And I don't think that's gonna make very many people happy long-term.

Bobbi Rebell:

No, and it's interesting because this is sort of happening under the radar where, yes, it's absolutely a factor that because people have locked in lower mortgage rates, they aren't necessarily selling their homes. And that's part of the inventory issue. But we're not talking that much about what you just talked about, which is the fact that we have this corporate ownership of housing. And we're not talking that much about the student loan crisis as a way to really keep younger generations from building. the economic power that they really are going to need as they move through their lives. And that's really hard. So what is your advice to all of us, but especially to young people who want to be financial grownups, who want to have a healthy financial future, who want to bring financial wellness into their lives?

Carol Roth:

So if you haven't gone to college and you are considering it, you have to do an ROI, return on investment calculation and make sure that you can pay the debt down in three to five years after you graduate. The rule of thumb I like to use for people who are as savvy at building financial models is that take the salary that you expect to earn three to five years out of school and you can have no more debt than that. So let's say you're going to make $80,000 a year. three to five years out, then that is your absolute cap. And if you can get under that, that's great. And if you cannot find like the school that you want to go to, you can't get the right scholarships or financial, you know, assistance from the school to knock down so that you're taking that debt, go somewhere else, because from a return-on-investment basis, you're not gonna get that payoff from your education. Now, if you already have that level of debt, you know, then the thing that you do is you do what I did. I graduated. Way back in the mid-90s, I'm a little bit of a dinosaur here. And I had $40,000 of college debt back then, which is the equivalent of the average right now for people. So what I did is I did for five years, I lived in a tiny little box. I lived in like a 400-square-foot studio. I had a cardboard box next to me as my bedside table with a sheet over it. and I did just this crazy personal austerity. I paid down that debt in a year and a half, and then I spent the rest of that time building up that nest egg, so I could then go ahead and make investments. And I think that you have, as a financial grownup, a choice around your financial wellness. Do you want to have that austerity and that pain for a short period of time? delay the gratification and then not have to worry about it for the rest of your life and really have that opportunity to build up wealth and a legacy and really have that kind of freedom that's around you instead of the burden on your shoulders. Or do you say, well, I want to make sure that I have some fun too and I need to have this great bag and whatever. And then that chases you for the rest of your life. And I'm not here to make that decision for you, but I don't think that people often think about it in that terms. If you go through that short duration of pain, it really provides so many benefits in the long term. And I think in terms of the ability to retain and seize that American dream, that's something that I would offer up to any young person.

Bobbi Rebell:

yeah, and just to reinforce, it's not about owning stuff. It's not about having that extra handbag. It's about working towards owning, you know, things like not having debt and owning real assets, whether it be a home or something else, you know, investments, stock, whatever it is, but owning your financial future so that you can have that financial health that we all really want to have.

Carol Roth:

the funny thing is, it just depends on the handbag though. I will have to say things like Birkin bags have proved to be good investments. It doesn't mean they will be in the long term, but there are some like weird alternative categories that do well. So again, just a rule, but we want you to have those assets.

Bobbi Rebell:

So important to point that out. We all know that there are actually some material things that will increase in value. Somehow, I never seem to buy those things. every luxury good I've ever bought seems to go down in value, but that's okay. I'm learning as I go along and as I go through my own journey as a financial grownup.

Carol Roth:

Hahaha.

Bobbi Rebell:

Carol Roth, thank you so much. Where can people find out more about you? I know the book is everywhere and the book is probably sky high on the bestseller list by the time this interview comes out.

Carol Roth:

Thank you. Well, what I would offer to people is behavioral, you want to start the benefits of owning things, buy a hard copy of the book. Start with that, you know, hey, I really want to own something tangible and something that I can make notes on. And then I spend most of my time on Twitter at CarolJSRoth. And then you can find me floating around other platforms usually under that name as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much. And I definitely support buying hardcovers of books because also they're great because you can show people what you're reading and talk about it, which is a great IRL conversation starter. And also, they're better for your eyes as we all get older, right?

Carol Roth:

Amen to that

Bobbi Rebell:

Thanks, Carol!

Carol Roth:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

This week’s extra credit is to make a list of what you now rent that you used to own- subscriptions count too!. Remember you used to be able to buy a DVD of a movie- now you probably subscribe to a streaming service. And consider how you feel about it. Its ok to be ok with not owning things. But Carol’s perspective is compelling.

So also consider talking to a friend about it and sharing this podcast. Please take a minute and share on social media - a quick screenshot on instagram is super easy- tag me at bobbirebell1 so I can thank you and share as well.

Pick up a copy of You Will Own Nothing from Carol Roth

And big thanks to her for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJuly 18, 2023Template

How Adam Carroll is Launching Financial Grownups- and you can too (including yourself)

Episode Description: 8 years after his Ted talk on the lessons learned from his young kids monopoly games, the author and speaker shares his strategies for setting his now (almost) adult kids up for financial success.

Adam Carroll’s Bio:

Adam Carroll is an internationally recognized financial literacy expert, author of four Amazon best-sellers, a two-time TED talk speaker with over 6 million views on YouTube, and is the creator of the Broke, Busted & Disgusted documentary which aired on CNBC and is shown in hundreds of high schools and colleges across the country.

Over the past two decades, Adam has delivered well over 1,000 paid engagements, surpassing 5 figures per gig, all while building a recurring revenue stream business from the stage.

He is the founder of The Shred Method™, a fintech company that is helping individuals and families create massive freedom in their lives in record time.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Adam Carroll!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Adam Carroll, you are a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Adam Carroll:

It's great to be here, Bobby. And I'm excited about where this conversation goes.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, the last episode was a few years ago. We'll put a link to that show. You gave a great money story about how mentorship really helped bring along your career. And we're sort of going to expand on that theme. I recently rewatched one of my favorite TED Talks, which, surprise, was yours. You talk about the lessons learned. For those of you just listening, he gave a little like, you know, I don't even know what the little like fist pump.

Adam Carroll:

Yeah, the arm pump, the excited arm pump

Bobbi Rebell:

But anyway, it's about Monopoly and your kids and the lessons that you learned kind of from them. And I'm gonna ask you in a minute to kind of fast forward to where we are now, because now they're sort of in my sweet spot where they're teenagers and 20-somethings and they're ready to be launched as financial grownups . But bring us back, give us a quick summary of that TED Talk.

Adam Carroll:

Yeah, the Ted talk, which happened in 2015, which seems like eons ago, was a byproduct of me being on college campuses all across the country, And I was experiencing these students who had no conscious understanding of the money decisions they were making. You know, they were borrowing money in student loans, they were spending money on credit cards, but it was it wasn't real. It was just very abstract. And I was watching my kids play Monopoly one day, Bobbi, and They were rolling the dice and they're moving the pieces, but the money was kind of irrelevant to them. It was just slips of paper. And I thought, maybe I should meld these two worlds and bring real money into this and see if it changes the way they play. And so I did, I went to the bank and got $10,000 in cold hard cash. And we played a cash game of Monopoly with my then elementary age kids. And it was very mind expanding for both of us, I would say, for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it was very different, very different reactions

Adam Carroll:

Very different reactions. They were super conservative, which I was surprised by. I don't know what I was expecting. I knew they would play differently, but each of them has sort of a, or had at the time a very different personality when they played Monopoly. So my daughter would always play the luck strategy for chance and community chess cards, rarely bought any property whatsoever. My youngest son bought everything that he landed on with no exception. And my middle son, my middle child, my oldest son, He was very strategic. He'd buy railroads and utilities and boardwalk and park place. But all of them started to play differently when real money was at stake. And it taught my wife and I some great lessons about how we could raise them to then ultimately launch financial grownups, to use your terminology. Because I wanted them to be able to stand on their own two feet financially at 18. And I knew that was not going to be from 17 to 18, they learned those lessons. It was going to be from like age six or seven through the age of 17. We are going to prepare them for, for life beyond, you know, the first national bank of mom and dad.

Bobbi Rebell:

So now you are at the time when they are ready to launch. So we're fast forwarding

Adam Carroll:

Mm-hmm.

Bobbi Rebell:

eight years from 2015 to now we're recording this in the summer of 2023. How old are your kids and their personalities still, I assume, very different. Talk to me about what you're seeing and what strategies you're using as they get older in the sort of later teenage years to make them financial grownups.

Adam Carroll:

My children now are aged 20. That's my oldest, my daughter. She is going into her junior year in college. My next oldest is 18. He's just about to enter school here and actually next week we take him to move into his dorm. And that leaves one at home who will be 16 in December. And what we've been doing to prepare them to launch financially is, you know, ultimately Bobbi, they were given money as an allowance for chores done from the time we played that Monopoly game through the age of about 14 or 15. They were still expected to help around the house. But by 14, every one of them, all three of them had more than enough money in their savings and checking accounts that they could go do what they wanted to do. They could go to games, they could go to movies, they could buy their friends gifts if they were invited to birthday parties. And we basically from... you know, seven or eight until 14, what we did was we taught them really solid financial habits, like, uh, delayed gratification when spending money. We taught them the intentionality of saving 10% of whatever you make. We taught them how to invest money. And I had built, uh, what we call the family 401k plan, which was whatever they put into investments, we would match up to $50 a month. And the goal was to get them. in the habit of putting money away and seeing it grow. And as a result, you know, what started out as $500 in savings by the time they were nine, grew to a thousand and two thousand and four thousand. And one of the things that I really hang my hat on is I told my kids from the time they were 10 or 11 that by the time you go to college, I want you to already have an MBA. And the MBA stood for a massive bank account. So we set a watermark of whatever that number was and all three of them, well, two of them right now have hit it. And the third one who's 16 and has been working for about maybe a year, he's slowly saving to get to that point. But all three of them will leave with probably more in savings than the average American has.

Bobbi Rebell:

One of the things I try to be very honest with our audience about is that while the end result may be good, it doesn't mean that there weren't stumbling blocks along the way. Can you share some of the setbacks and challenges that you have had that maybe make it a little more relatable? Because to me right now, this sounds great, but if I'm listening to this, I'm going, yeah, because their dad is Adam Carroll, but I am not a money expert. I'm barely able to manage my own money, or maybe I even can't manage my own money well. What do I do?

Adam Carroll:

You know, the number one thing that I tell young audiences when I talk to them and young being could be high school or college age, could be young professionals, but I'll tell them that your money story is probably given to you by your parents, but your money story does not have to be their money story. And so for parents that are sort of struggling financially, what I want you to know is that your children, even from the age of five or younger, have a really, really profound sense of how money works or how wants work. And this is one of those things that I think for families with young kids has to be just absolutely drilled into their heads that there is a limit, there is a lack to the amount of money that we have. And what most parents do where they fall down is they'll take their kids to Target or to Walmart or to name your store. And the kid pitches a fit because they want something and the only way they know how to get it is to pitch a fit. And so even if you have limited resources to give your child a dollar or $2 or $5 a week and say this is your money, this is used for the things that you want, not for the things you need, as your parents will do our best to provide everything you need. But if you want something that is on you, that's not on me. And in those $1, $2, $5 increments. let your kids fall down and skin their knees. My wife and I had lots of arguments about, I would say it's their money. They get to decide. And she'd say, I know, but it's such a dumb purchase. Why would they get X, Y, or Z? And I'm like, I get where you're coming from, but it is their money. And

so in teaching the lessons, we have to let them fall down. And I think that's the hardest part.

Bobbi Rebell:

Can you give us an example of something where you had to let them fall down and you were maybe tempted to rescue them? And maybe you did? Not that I've ever done that, of course.

Adam Carroll:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

But you know, we're as parents, we are far from perfect. Speaking only for myself, you're perfect, Adam.

Adam Carroll:

And what is so hard is that I think as a society, we have conflated love and struggle. So we go, I love my kids, therefore I don't want them to struggle. And in reality, it really should be, I love my kids and I want them to struggle, but I want them to struggle within the confines of my safe boundary. And so some of the mistakes or the foibles, the fall downs we've seen are, our kids will amass or accumulate a certain amount of money. It could be from birthday money that they're getting or holiday money, could be part-time jobs, but they've amassed it. And then they get really excited about the next iPhone. And so they're like, I'm gonna go get the $1,200 iPhone. And this is one of those where my wife said, this is ridiculous, we should not be allowing them to go get a $1,200 device. And I kept saying, it is their money though. And at some level, we need to let them do that. We have to determine how much that is. And so I kept telling my sons, guys, 1400 is a lot of money. Go get the SE, go get this lower version of the phone. Don't go after the iPhone 17 or whatever the latest one was gonna be. And by and large, they went out and they did it anyway. They said, dad, I made this decision. I went out and did it. I spent the $1,200. And then the very next week, of course, my son had tire issues on his car. And so we're going, well, maybe we need to chip in. And my wife said, no, this, you know, you've set the stage here. He needs to feel the pain. And, um, again, hard lesson and hard for a parent, not to say we'll just stroke the check for $600. Um, but I will tell you this, my kids learn the lesson and they learn that it is necessary to have money in savings because these kind of things are going to occur. Um, so I think the hardest part of it for parents is not to jump in and rescue when you 100% have the means to do it. Um, but it's a really good, hard lesson for the kid to learn in the moment.

Bobbi Rebell:

How does your approach change now that you have emerging adults, let's say older teenagers of 20 something versus 15 years ago when you, I'm sorry, eight years ago in 2015 when you were doing the Ted Talk, the famous, by the way, the Ted Talk I didn't say has more than six million hits, my friends, just so you know. It's not just this little one. It totally went viral globally, the whole thing. These are, they're always been real humans, but these are adults basically with... Sometimes, unpredictable emotional reactions. Teenagers are hard. Just speaking as the parent of a 16-year-old right now,

Adam Carroll:

Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:

teenagers are hard. It's different.

Adam Carroll:

They are. They are. And I will say that each one of mine are different. And I don't know how many kids do you have, Bobbi?

Bobbi Rebell:

Three, the youngest

Adam Carroll:

Three.

Bobbi Rebell:

is 16, yeah.

Adam Carroll:

Okay. Yeah. So same here. And they always say when you have three kids, you have a leader, a lover and a lunatic. And

Bobbi Rebell:

Do we? Oh my goodness, I'm going to have fun discussing this one later.

Adam Carroll:

Yeah, and I've seen it play out in many families, whether it's, you know, I'm talking to the child who is one of three or they have children, you have three children. In my case, my daughter, who is the leader is very good at saving and managing money. So she's very frugal like her mom. She was wired that way loves to coupon loves to thrift. You know, was seeking out free things on Facebook to furnish her apartment with which we love. We thought it was hilarious. And then my middle son, he is the saver. He does not spend money. He just, he kind of hoards it and he likes having it, but he's very intelligent about it. So he wants to invest that money and he's studying investing and all of that. And then my lunatic, the young one, he's a maker. He makes it. He just, he, he will be in sales. He will never have a problem making money. And we're trying to teach him that you're really good at making it. Let's get really good at keeping it and really good at growing it. And so. I think the difference is when they're young, what we're trying to do is really put the right habits in place. And as they get older, we start to say, hey, your natural skill set is you're really good at this. So leverage that, use that, employ that however you can, keep the habits going, but know that you have a skill set there that you could leverage and deploy into greater things. And I think it's just the maturation. And we're seeing our kids go from. skinning their knees on a $25 purchase to making really intelligent $500 and $1,000 and $5,000 purchases. And they're doing it in a very thoughtful kind of intentional monitored way. And I think they did that because we let them skin their knees at $25 a pop.

Bobbi Rebell:

What is one thing you wish you had done differently looking back now?

Adam Carroll:

Um, I did copious amounts of research into scholarships. And I think I was so wrapped up in doing my own research and espousing what I knew about scholarships to the general public, that I didn't do an effective enough job with my kids of drilling it into their heads. This is what we're going to do to pay for school. And for the parents out there that have a 529 plan or you've got savings or you've told your kids, hey, don't worry about... college money will pay for it. I think at some level, students have to know that some of that financial onus is on them. And then there's gotta be this motivation to go find free money because it's plentiful. You know, there's allegedly $8 billion that goes unclaimed every year in scholarships. And I did not do enough of sitting my kids down and saying, it's scholarship Saturday for the next hour, we're working on this. You're gonna gripe, you're gonna complain, but you're gonna love it when at the end of your college career, all that 529 money's going into a 401k for you. I wish we would have done that.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you're referring to a recent change in the law, which is really exciting. It used to be a lot of people were hesitant to put money into a 529 because it was sort of stuck there in a silo and now there's other options, which is another episode. Maybe we'll do a newsletter on that, but it's a really interesting point. Lots of options when you have money in a 529 that did not exist until recently. So thanks for bringing that up. And so I do wanna, before we wrap up, I know that you have a really cool perspective on interest rates and mortgages and debt, because interest rates, they stink right now, Adam. It's terrible. And I know a lot of people are interested in not having a mortgage at the current rates. We don't have time to go too much into depth, not debt, depth, on this topic, but I just briefly tell us, you've got something called the Shred Method.

Adam Carroll:

Yeah, this is a basically it's a piece of software. It's a course that we've created in addition in a community of people who basically said, I don't want to have a mortgage for the rest of my life. I don't want a 30 year fixed. I want to get it paid off much, much faster. And so what we do is we teach people how to create efficiency with their income and blast away debt and record time record time for most of our clients is somewhere between three and seven years. where they could have everything taken care of, mortgage included. And the reason I'm so passionate about it is my wife and I did this in 2012. And we started the process with about a $300,000 mortgage. We blasted it away in 3.7 years. And from that point forward, realized the power of having liquidity in our home, you know, in the way of equity, but really the power of discretionary income at a high level. And you're... you know, it's able you are able to build real wealth in short order when you minimize the amount of money that's going out in interest expense on debt. And so we're teaching how to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Okay, where can people find you and learn more about all things Adam Carroll? Because you do a lot of things.

Adam Carroll:

Adam Carroll, they live at adamcarroll.info. That's two R's, two L's, adamcarroll.info. And if the Shred Method is at all intriguing to anyone looking to just blast away debt, you can go to theshredmethod.com for more info.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thanks so much.

Adam Carroll:

Thanks for having me, Bobby.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJuly 14, 2023Template

How to get paid for jobs you would (and sometimes do) do for free with author Estelle Erasmu

Episode Description: Do you love your job so much you would do it for free? Writing coach Estelle Erasmus, author of “Writing That Gets You Noticed” shares how she transitioned from passion to profit as a writer, and how we can get paid for what we love as well.

Video Highlight: Estelle Erasmus talks about knowing your worth, even when family and friends ask for a favor.

Estelle Erasmus’s Bio: Estelle Erasmus is an award-winning journalist, writing coach, and longtime ASJA member and an adjunct instructor at New York University and for Writer’s Digest. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Independent, WIRED, Huffington Post Personal, AARP the Magazine, Vox, Insider, Next Avenue, GH, Marie Claire and more. Estelle’s articles for the New York Times and Washington Post have gone globally viral (with more than 500 comments on her NYT piece). She has appeared on “Good Morning America”, “Fox News with Ernie Anastos” and has had her articles mentioned on “The View”. She is host of the Freelance Writing Direct Podcast, found on iTunes and Spotify.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Estelle Erasmus!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.
Subscribe to the newsletter.
Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: The other day I was watching our local news and there was a story that came on about using confetti- yes confetti- to de-stress. And I have to admit it was pretty appealing. By the way it's called the confetti project if you want to look it up. But guess what is the top thing that we stress about. Ok well given that you are listening to this you know the answer. It is money. According to the American Psychological Association, money continues to be the top source of stress for Americans. That’s where Financial Wellness Strategies comes in. We provide educational resources for companies employees to balance financial wealth with mental health. Financial literacy is important but we need to go beyond academics and learn how it all actually fits into our real lives- and what we want to accomplish with our hard earned money. Learn more about how you and your company can invest in peace of mind at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com

Welcome everyone to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of Launching Financial Grownups. Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids become Everyday Money Smart and the founder of Financial Wellness Strategies.

This week we are talking about getting paid for work you would do for free. All that talk about following your passion is great but sometimes we are so excited to be doing what we love- that we find ourselves in a precarious position of being underpaid or not paid at all because well- we would do it for free.

Confession: after doing a couple of unpaid internships I landed my first job out of college at CNBC. I was paid- the standard amount a production assistant was paid. But I remember confiding in a jaded more experienced co-worker- an associate producer senior to me- that I was so excited to be in the CNBC newsroom and part of all the action that I would have done the “job” for free!

This week’s quote- you can probably guess- is from the movie Jerry McGuire and it is “Show me the money” because honestly- work- including getting to play professional sports- is work.

This week’s guest author and award-winning journalist Estelle Erasmus learned to get paid even though she did write her blog for free. She is now getting paid-and teaching us how to get paid and much more in her new book: Writing That Gets Noticed: Find Your Voice, Become a Better Storyteller, Get Published. Her work has appeared in countless top publications including the New York Times and the Washington post- where the stories went viral globally. Estelle also hosts the Freelance Writing Direct Podcast.

Here is Estelle Erasmus.

Estelle Erasmus, my friend, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Estelle:

Thank you so much for having me, Bobbie. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm excited to congratulate you after, really the whole time we've known each other, you've been working on this book, Writing That Gets Noticed, and it is now a reality. I asked you on here because you have at points in your career worked as a writer and I am saying it was work because it was work. and not been paid. Specifically, after you came back from having your daughter, you had a project that became very special to you, but also was, I don't know, was it a hobby? Was it unpaid work? You tell me.

Estelle:

Yeah, I mean, what happened was I had always made money through publishing and through freelance writing. And then when I had my daughter in midlife, I became part of a community through Listen to Your Mother, which was a show that you go on and on stage and you talk, you say your essays about parenting and motherhood. And I found community. And what I found was they were all doing this thing I'd never heard of before called blogging. And I wanted in because again, it was that sense of community. And I asked them who pays you? And they said, well, we don't really get paid, but sometimes we are able to get money from companies that if we post about something that they've done. And I thought, okay, there's an opportunity here potentially. So when I set up my blog or my website, I set it up as a wordpress.org setup. because that allowed you at some point to put ads on and to be able to make money. And I consciously made that choice. So even though I wasn't gonna make the money initially from blogging until I was more known and I knew that, I wanted, I was looking for the community and I was looking for opportunities for the future.

Bobbi Rebell:

So you weren't being paid directly for your work, but you always had the idea that you hoped to monetize it in the future.

Estelle:

I did, I really did because I saw that people were doing that and I didn't there were there was a lot I had to learn Bobbie and I always advocate that people if they want to do something go through step by step break it down into steps. I had so many steps to do I had to learn how to do a website how to create my own website and hire web designer. I did it myself. I had to learn how to write. very personal, somewhat vulnerable stories. I'd always been a journalist. I'd always written in a very journalistic, impartial way. So this was very new for me.

Bobbi Rebell:

So how did you make that pivot to being paid there and also expanding because you then moved on to many other things that you that you were paid for then?

Estelle:

So I saw that people were being influencers. And this was very early on with social media. It was before Instagram, it was before TikTok, both of which I'm on. But it was before all of that. It was basically Twitter and Facebook. And they had these big groups and everybody was sharing everybody's social media and following each other. And they were sharing opportunities, so-and-so company. is looking for a few people to attend an event and tweet. And then events I understood about when I was a magazine editor, I would be invited to events all the time. And perhaps I would write about them in my magazine or perhaps a columnist would write about them or sometimes I even had a column. And so that I understood. And so the translation into making money from it wasn't that difficult for me. Then I realized there were, you had to categorize it. So maybe they wanted 10 tweets over a three week period. Okay, I can do that. Back then, I think tweets were 140 words. And so it was a process of learning and growing to another phase. And I always had in the back of my mind, yeah, I wanna get back to publishing, traditional publishing. But while I was thinking that traditional publishing was becoming so untraditional, it wasn't print anymore that was king, it was digital, which is really, I had honed my teeth on small publications and learning how to run everything, which was a great precursor for understanding the editors of digital today.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it is tricky because a lot of writers now have a very tough time earning a living. You've written a book, writing that gets noticed. Well, it's also within that writing that gets you paid. And you do have quite a bit of information about once you do have someone that's interested in publishing your work, how to get paid and also how to get paid the best deal, both in money and other things. Can you talk a little bit about that? In other words, once you get that interest.

Estelle:

Sure, once you get that interest, once you get that assignment, I'm very clear in a whole chapter about what happens once you get the assignment. You have to make sure if you don't get a contract that you get something in writing, or even verbal that you could then send an email back and I give the actual verbiage on how you can do that. I'm glad we spoke. This is our agreement. This is how many words. This is when I'll get it to you. These are the rights. Even if they don't send you a contract. And then I break down the types of contracts because our work is valuable. And we don't wanna just get, unless we want to, right? Sometimes there are throwaway stories, you can give the rights away, it doesn't matter. You've done something, you're not never gonna repurpose or use it again. But there are times when you're gonna use something again, maybe in a memoir, maybe in an anthology, maybe in some longer form and you want to retain. those rights. And so there's little trick. I would always go to an editor and I'd say, I see this contract that's taking all rights. Do you have another contract that will allow me rights if I want to do a memoir or an anthology? And I can't even remember any one publisher that said no to me, but you have to ask just like anything in life. It's all about the ask.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. And this advice goes for so many different businesses, whether it's coaching or even being like a home organizer or different things. You want to have a contract. You want to know what your – it has to be very clear what exactly is expected. For example, how would you protect yourself from someone taking your ideas? And again, this goes to anything. It can go to if someone is just constantly asking you for advice. I mean, doctors get this all the time. Tell me what do you think about this when you're at a dinner party or whatever it may be. How do you – convert those people who are just asking you for help, you know, your friend that asked you to tweak her essay, versus really getting paid. Especially when it's people that may be your friends, maybe they think you're friends, but they're really just acquaintances, and they're effectively, even innocently, asking you to work for free.

Estelle:

I think we have to have an understanding that our time is valuable. We have limited time during the day. Everybody has the same 24 hours. And if we want to maximize it and get value for our work, we have to value our own work. So I think Marie Forlone, I don't know if I'm saying her name correctly, but she says something which is great when somebody says, can I, you know, can I grab a coffee with you and bend your ear? you know, or like pick your brain. She says, I barely have time to see my best friend, my daughter or my mother. You know, she says something like that. And I have used that before. With that said, I am very generous with my time to my students, to the people that I mentor who usually have taken a class with me at NYU or Writer's Digest or done one-on-one coaching with me. And that is... an equal investment. I'm invested in them because I'm invested in getting their work to the point where they're gonna get their writing noticed and they do very successfully. And I feel like that's a good use of my time. Just somebody randomly saying, can I pick your brain? Well, you know, this brain has had decades worth of preparation and... I'm just not gonna give it away like that. I do give it away in many ways through my podcast, Freelance Writing Direct, where I always ask my guests for actionable writing tips or craft tips and I shared them myself. I give it away on my sub stack a lot of times when I share editor on call interviews that I've done with New York Times editor or Washington Post editor that I use for NYU. In my book, I give so many tips and tricks away. So I feel like you share the knowledge, but very specific questions like, can you look at my essay and analyze it? That's work. That is something I would be hired to do. And that is how I would approach that.

Bobbi Rebell:

How do you prevent people then from taking your ideas? Do you ever have ideas where if you submit a story or a consultant maybe has to pitch themselves to get a job and then they turn you down and then you see your idea being used? Is there a way to protect yourself?

Estelle:

Ideas are kind of in the zeitgeist. And I've seen this a lot because I've been on both sides of the publishing wall, Bobbie. I've been a magazine editor-in-chief where somebody will send an idea and literally a week later, somebody will send the same idea. So ideas and trends, people can do things. And I talk a lot about it in my book, how you can find trends, how you can follow trends and work with them. But I feel like you have to make sure you have to do your due diligence like anything in life. When you buy a home without researching it, without going at night to see who's in the neighborhood, without looking around to see the changes in the last few years, you do the same thing when you're looking at a publication that you wanna write for. And there is a whisper network. There are some publications that aren't trustworthy. I'm not, you know, I don't work with. publications like that and usually they end up closing pretty quickly or after time. But if you go for credible newspapers or publishers that have been around for a while, you're usually in good stead.

Bobbi Rebell:

A lot of us wanna be working in something that we're passionate about, and we would do it for free, but we know we can't. What is your best advice to get paid for something that you know, and to some degree they know, you would do for free or for very little money, so you don't have that leverage?

Estelle:

I have two pieces of advice about that. One is whenever somebody suggests something to you, and they say, you know, you can do this, or we're paying $50, or we're not paying anything, you could say, you know, I've been in the industry, blah, or you know, that I've written for all these publications, and you know that this is my subject area. and that I have the latest, is there any wiggle room? You can say that if they're offering you nothing, you can say that if they're offering you a thousand dollars, you can say no matter what it is, you always ask it. I've asked that question and I have gained 70%. I mean, you would think that maybe they double something, they've gone up 70%. So it's been insane that just asking that little question. so if you're not gonna get paid for something and you really want to get paid for it, you have to look at what kind of history the publication has. Do they ever pay their writers for anything? Or is it a nonprofit, which usually they won't. They'll say something like, oh, we're a nonprofit, we don't pay, but we will put it on social media five times a day, we'll share all your links. And I would just go for things that are gonna help you because honestly, sharing social media links really counts. I've had times when I've shared social media, I've been able to share more than one link. Usually they said we can give one link and I'll say, well, can I give three? And they will and you immediately can see like an uplift in your social media because people are reading it depending on the reach of the publication and they're following you. A lot of follows give you more opportunity because every time you have a class that you're teaching, every time you're doing something, you can share it with your followers and that gives you more opportunity. So I feel like you have to look at it as a big, a long game. Publishing is a long game. And if I had said when I first started blogging, I'm not gonna do this, I'm not making any money, I would never have become a blogger, I would never have become an influencer, I would never have learned social media way earlier than most writers and had, by the time writers got to Twitter, I had 15,000 followers. So it really changed the game for me. That made me valuable to publishers. even early on before I had viral hits in the New York Times and the Washington Post. And it showed that I was a grower and somebody who could pivot and learn and move forward with my career in a very strong and positive way.

Bobbi Rebell:

Estelle this has been wonderful Where can people catch up with you and get access to all of your upcoming events and your podcast?

Estelle:

Perfect. Thanks so much, Bobby. This has been such a pleasure talking to you. My podcast is Freelance Writing Direct. It can be found on iTunes, Spotify, and now YouTube. And recent guests, I won't say that. Guests include Cheryl Strayed, Anne Hood, and editors from top assigning publications that will pay you money. I am on, my website is estellserasmus.com and I can be found on Twitter. Instagram and TikTok at Estelle S Erasmus. And now I have a sub stack called writing that gets noticed. And I have information on that on my website.

Bobbi Rebell:

Great, thank you so much.

Estelle:

Thank you, Bobby. Pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJuly 11, 2023Template

How to be less stressed about grownup money issues with author Jason Vitug [Encore]

Episode Description: Happy Money Happy Life author Jason Vitug shares specific ways we can take action to manage financially stressful situations in our life. The Certified Yoga Instructor and breath-work specialist shares his own struggles and how he used meditation and a holistic approach to heal from being a self-described 'financial mess'

Jason’s Bio:

Jason Vitug is a wellness advocate, bestselling author of You Only Live Once and upcoming book Happy Money Happy Life. He's an entrepreneur, producer, and founder ofthe financial wellness website phroogal.com

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Jason!

Instagram - www.instagram.com/jasonvitug
Twitter - twitter.com/jasonvitug
Website - www.phroogal.com

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Being a financial grownup is hard- That’s why we need to be focusing on financial wellness. According to PwC, the majority of employees said that financial worries had a negative impact on their overall health and wellbeing. Money stress is expensive for companies- workers are less productive, and more likely to leave a job. They also have higher healthcare costs when they are worried about finances. As if health care costs weren’t already sky high. Financial Wellness Strategies is here to help by providing engaging and yes, delightful workshops and educational programs for employees to better control their finances. Anyone can lecture and run numbers. We talk about real life money stuff.

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”.

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Bobbi Rebell- certified financial planner and author of Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by helping your (almost) adult kids become everyday money smart. I also run the education and consulting firm Financial Wellness Strategies.

This week’s quote comes from one of my favorite money experts because he really shines a spotlight not just on learning about money but about why we have to be intentional and proactive when it comes to our finances.

The quote is:

“When it comes to your finances, ignorance is not bliss. The less you know, the more you pay”

And that is from Jason Vitug who is this week’s guest. We spoke back in January when his latest book Happy Money Happy Life was released.

It's time for your company to invest in peace of mind with Financial Wellness Strategies. Get in touch at FinancialWellnessStrategies.com.
Jason Vitug:

As you know, a lot of my Instagram, I'm doing asanas. Breathe in wealth, breathe out debt. It's just a clever way of getting people to understand the tie between health and wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

We are continuing our focus on financial wellness with what is a very unique and pretty special interview on this podcast. Jason Vitug has come a long way. He was a rising star in his job in finance, earning a very nice living when he actually started to get physically sick, very sick.

Well, long story short, Jason ended up putting his life on pause, traveling the world, and writing about it, reclaiming his life with a totally new approach, which he's going to tell us about. But if you think Jason is an advocate for all of us quitting our jobs and traveling the world, no way. In fact, Jason is going to share the importance, for example, of what he calls occupational wellness and using a holistic approach to be targeted and specific in getting on track with our money as financial grownups, and no, as important as yoga and meditation are, they will not pay off your student loan, but they will put you in the right mindset to find a path to get to your financial goals. Jason joined me to chat about his new book, Happy Money, Happy Life, which as you're going to hear, I still did not have a copy of when we recorded this interview, but I can't wait for it to come out so I can learn even more from my friend. Here is Jason Vitug.

Jason Vitug, welcome to the podcast.

Jason Vitug:

Thank you so much, Bobbi. Excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:

I have been trying to have you on for quite some time. I did get you on for a summer watch series special episode, but you haven't come on to talk about your work, so I'm happy to have you here in celebration of your soon-to-be-released book, Happy Money, Happy Life. Congratulations. By the way, we have the same publisher that's a great publisher in Wiley. Tell us about the book, which let me just say, one small dig, I haven't gotten my copy yet, so I am waiting and excited to hear more about it.

Jason Vitug:

Yeah, you're basing this interview on our relationship and our friendship, so thank you so much. But I am excited to talk about Happy Money, Happy Life because it's a book that walks people through the eight dimensions of wellness. I think it's so essential and vital for people to understand that we're multifaceted, multidimensional, multilayered, and so if you think you are good with money, but you just haven't been able to level up and you're trying to figure out what is missing, it might be other aspects of your life. It might be your mental or emotional health. It might be your physical situation or your work environment. There are many aspects that affect how you manage money and affect your financial well-being. This is what the book is about and I'm excited to bring it out into the world.

As we mentioned, this is the first time I'm here at the show, and actually, this book, I dive deeper into my story. I talk about how I was a high-functioning financial mess and how I got myself to the point of financial success and realizing through the journey the importance of taking care of other aspects of my well-being. It really isn't just about financial milestones. It's about how am I feeling, how am I doing, how am I relating with others. I thought it's about time, and through all the stuff that we've been through, it is time to talk about this holistic approach to finances.

Bobbi Rebell:

Speaking of all that we have been through, I alluded to the fact that I've been trying to get you on this podcast, and you have turned me down many times. You were busy with other priorities during the pandemic. You're now a, I'm going to bungle the exact title, but I know that you are a certified yoga instructor, you're also a breathing specialist. Talk about how that relates to finding peace of mind when it comes to financial aspects of your life because there's a very direct connection that I think people don't always fully appreciate.

Jason Vitug:

Yeah, so finance is one of the key areas that stresses individuals out. It's actually the top number one stressor for most people and so it's important for us to understand there are tools and ways for us to deal with the financial stress that we're feeling at that moment. Yes, if creditors are calling you, if you have insurmountable debt, or any financial situations, you might not be able to resolve it right away, but you need techniques to cope with the stress because stress that's prolonged leads to mental health issues. That's one of the premise of the book as well.

For me, I dived deeper into my practice, and during the pandemic, I found myself going to yoga teacher certification online. I became a breathwork specialist. I started teaching meditation and incorporating these aspects of the things that help me heal into the financial conversation. As you know, a lot of my Instagram, I'm doing asanas. Breathe in wealth, breathe out debt. It's just a clever way of getting people to understand the tie between health and wealth. At the end of the day, we know that our wealth can help us gain access to resources and tools, but also, there are some aspects of money that can affect our health outcomes. That has to do with our habits, our behaviors, and so that's where the yoga, that's where the breathwork, that's where the meditation aspect is essential and vital in improving the overall quality of our life.

Bobbi Rebell:

Some of our listeners might think, "Well, I don't have financial distress. I have enough money. My career is going gangbusters. I'm earning more money than ever before and yet I have so much stress." You actually can relate to that because you had a career earlier in your life that was quite lucrative and yet you had very specific health issues that, in fact, were not so easily solvable by conventional medicine. You had to actually take a look at what's going on and that had to do with approaching your total life in a very different way. People can have these issues even if they don't think they have money problems, per se.

Jason Vitug:

Yeah, I think many of your listeners are high-functioning, high achievers, and they're looking at, "Okay, well, I'm good," as you mentioned, "I'm good with money. I'm on track to retire." But there's always this nagging question, "Am I doing everything I want to do in life?" Or something is missing.

I tend to ask people, when you're laying in bed, "No, what's keeping you up at night?" If it's not finances and if it's not the kids, if it's not X, Y and Z, chances are there's another aspect of your well-being that's not being addressed. For me, I mean, I climbed up the corporate ladder, I made the six figures, I drove the nice cars, I lived in Palo Alto, I did all these really amazing things, and then realizing, "Wait a minute, something is missing." But I wasn't quite sure, because when you are in this cycle, when you are on the traditional path that we grow up in, and that we're told to follow, it's very difficult for us to find another way or an alternative, and so for me, I need to take a step back. I need to find a different course of action.

Realizing that when I developed vertigo, I had bloodshot eyes for two weeks, so you couldn't stare at my eyes without crying because my eyes were bloodshot, my mental gymnastics to deal with other aspects of my wellness finally took a toll and was manifesting itself physically. When things start manifesting physically, it's very difficult to ignore them, and so me making a different course, having the financial means, I decided to backpack around the world, find myself, but also realizing that work is vital to our wellness, so you can't not just stop working. I think it's important for people to understand that. That's one of the dimensions of wellness. It is occupational well-being and so it's a matter of getting our finances right in order for us to reclaim back our time. That gives us the opportunity and the ability to find more meaningful work.

Bobbi Rebell:

One of those things, I mean, you're not going to go do yoga and learn proper breathing technique and have your money situation fixed, you have to actually go in and assess your situation and come up with different plans, different approaches to actually get on a path to financial wellness. It's not just about, "Do some yoga and things are going to be all okay."

Jason Vitug:

Well, that's the thing. Yoga, meditation, breathwork, those are all coping techniques that help you right then and there because it brings you back into your body, and also, it works with your nervous system, so when you're thinking about financial stress or any other type of stress, it is working your nervous system. That's why you're shaking, that's why you're sweating. That's why you're unable to think and process any information, and so when you do these type of activities, it brings you back to the present moment and allows you to regulate your physical body, so this way, you can reassess your financial situation with a clearer mind, so you're not in that flight-or-fight mode, you're now in thinking mode, and you're able to assess it clearer and you're going to be able to find the path.

These are, again, just coping techniques, and you don't certainly have to be fit because I get people that say, "Okay, well, I'm not fit. I can't do yoga, I'm not flexible. I can't sit and do meditation because my mind is running rampant, and I breathe, so why do I need to do breathwork?" Part of this again, too, these are all just mindful practices and you do what you can do. Again, if you're feeling stressed in whatever aspect of your life, these are coping techniques that help you find the calm in order to address that financial storm that you're trying to avoid or that you see in the future. I think that is vital.

Bobbi Rebell:

One of the common things that people come up to me, especially, I've been talking a lot about my most recent book, Launching Financial Grownups, is they feel like, "If I only had $10,000 more, I could get the car I want. If I only had a budget of $30,000 more, I could get the house that I want. If I only was going to be able to reach the magic retirement number that people say." "What's your number?" is always a popular conversation when you're out with friends, at least maybe when we were younger. Maybe we're toning it down a little bit more recently. What's your advice to people like that, that always, no matter where they are, they always feel like if they only had that next raise, they would no longer be stressed about money? Does that really ever fix it?

Jason Vitug:

It does not. I want people to understand arrival fallacy, the belief that once we arrive at the specific financial milestone, it's going to solve all our problems. When you understand arrival fallacy, that it is just a mental way of us believing that happiness and joy, satisfaction, it's going to happen when we achieve that income goal, or that financial milestone, or buying that house. Certainly, you might feel a boost in your feelings, but that's not long-lasting. Then you're going to try to find a different milestone, or a different goal to achieve, and then eventually, you're going to catch yourself in the rat race, and it's going to be never-ending, and so I want people to understand that there is such a thing, a psychological term such as arrival fallacy.

It's important to be more mindful about the journey, 'cause at the end of the day, you are as happy because of the journey, I mean, the ups and downs, the twists and turns, the barriers that you face, and so whenever you are looking back, you're not really looking at the prize, or what you've achieved, you're looking at all the work that you've gone through, you've done in order to achieve those goals. I think that is so important. Again, being more mindful, being more present allows you to experience the journey and enjoy it. Again, it's going to be ups and downs or a lot of bad parts of it, but again, too, you take it in stride because it's just part of the journey to arrive at one milestone that leads you to the next.

Bobbi Rebell:

Before I let you go, I want to ask you for three key lessons, three money tips, if you will, for 2023 that will get people started, not just the coping things, we've talked about that, but three specific things they can do with respect to their money that will make a key difference for the year and beyond.

Jason Vitug:

It's really shifting mindset beliefs. One thing I want people to understand, that money can buy happiness when you spend it on wellness. This isn't spending it on just a massage, or a facial, or a candle. This is spending it on things that have long-lasting benefits. I am challenging people to understand that you can utilize money to buy things that can promote your ability to choose happiness. If you're buying back your time, you can then spend that with your family. If you're buying back your time, you can then spend that on finding more meaningful work, et cetera. I want people to understand that. I think that's one kind of idea and philosophy that I have that I wish people incorporate in 2023 and beyond.

The other piece that I want people to understand is that social health is vital. I think we've all learned this through the pandemic and the quarantine and more and more research is seeing how that's affecting our mental health and affecting our financial wellness. For me, it's okay to spend money on friends. It's okay to spend money on gifts. It's okay to spend money on dinners and movies when you are socializing with family and friends and colleagues. I know that's like a no-no in a lot of personal finance worlds, but yes, because we are investing our resources in order for us to get back this social equity, the social wealth that's been missing.

The other piece, I'm more on that mindful philosophical aspect of it, but you are not your work. Yes, that's another aspect of it. Work is a means for us to gain income and revenue if it's a business, but understand there are all these other aspect of you, and I think we put so much emphasis on the career that we have, on the job title, and then the associated benefits of salary and income that we forget what truly makes us is a much more holistic approach. Those are the three money/financial-related things, all focus on mindset because I think that is what's going to shift people from living in fear into living in abundance.

Bobbi Rebell:

Perfect. Thank you so much. Now, I know the book will be available everywhere, Happy Money, Happy Life by Jason Vitug, so everyone, pick it up. You're going on tour. I think this is going to be your third tour. The first two were pretty epic. What's going on now?

Jason Vitug:

Yes, this is my third and final tour. It's the only time that my body can still be in a vehicle. I am visiting all 50 states, holding events at independent bookstores. I think it's essential for us to support local economies and bookstores and coffee shops are the place where people socialize and I think working with independent booksellers is the way to go, so I am doing that, and it's going to be the first-ever attempt to visit all 50 states in one year. You can follow me at frugal.com/happy, and on social media, I'm active on Instagram @JasonVitug and on Twitter @JasonVitug. That's where you can find information about the tour. You can engage and have conversations, and I hope to see you in person so we can shake hands, we can hug, we can converse.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I look forward to seeing you in New York City. Thanks, Jason.

Jason Vitug:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hard to pick a favorite line but I do love how towards the end of the interview Jason gave us permission to spend on getting back what he calls Social Wealth that we need to get back.

Looking for more ways to feel better about- and be better with your money? Get free money tips by signing up for my newsletter at substack.bobbirebell.com. I do this podcast and the newsletter for free and it would mean the world to me if you would help me get the word out. It just takes a few minutes of your time. Take a screenshot of the podcast and post on social and tag me- bobbirebell1 on instagram- or just tell your friends to listen.

Thanks to Jason Vitug for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJuly 4, 2023Template

Broke no more: How to level up as a financial grownup with Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry

Episode Description: Leveling up your lifestyle can be fun and exciting. Erin Lowry, the author of the Broke Millennial book and workbook series shares her strategies, and why putting it all down on paper in a workbook (like the one she just released) can help it all come together!

Video Highlight: Erin talks about buy-nothing groups.

Erin Lowry’s Bio: Erin Lowry is the author of Broke Millennial, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, Broke Millennial

Talks Money and Broke Millennial Workbook. Her first book was named by MarketWatch as one of the

best money books of 2017 and by Business Insider as one of the best personal finance books for 2020.

Her second book was named one of the best self-help books for personal finance by VICE in 2022. She’s appeared on CBS Sunday Morning, CNBC, and The Rachael Ray Show and quoted in The New York

Times and The Wall Street Journal and has written for The New York Times, Cosmopolitan, USA Today

and Bloomberg Opinion. Erin lives in New York City with her husband and their rambunctious dog.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Too good to go

Follow Erin!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
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Financial Wellness Strategies- www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

This week we are talking about leveling up your life responsibly- and as a financial grownup. We often start our adulthood with somewhat limited means and as we hopefully move up in our careers and grownup lives.. Have a little more wiggle room. But how do we know when we can upgrade our lifestyle?

Spending can be fun but it can also be dangerous. Which brings us to .. This week’s quote which is in honor of the new season of the sex and the city reboot “And just like that” and it was famously said by the lead character of Carrie Bradshaw played by Sarah Jessica Parker

"I like my money where I can see it, hanging in my closet." – Carrie Bradshaw, Sex and the City

Don’t do this my grownup friends. The closet is no place for our money with the exception I will allow- of some actual investment pieces. And no, I would not consider Carrie Bradshaw a financial grownup. In fact despite her high profile career, she is perpetually being rescued and/or supported financially by men. Hopefully Mr. Big had a lot of life insurance and she is getting it paid out in an annuity over time so we don’t see her living on her friend’s couch in her senior years. But we digress.

This week’s guest is doing just fine thank you. Erin Lowry is the author of Broke Millennial, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, Broke Millennial

Talks Money and the new Broke Millennial Workbook. She is also a dear friend of mine who I asked to come back on the podcast to talk about how life has changed with all her success- and how we can upgrade as we go through life’s milestone’s.

Here is Erin Lowry.

My friend Erin Lowry, you are a financial grown-up. Welcome back to the podcast.

Erin Lowry:

Wonderful to be back.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm glad you are back. We were delayed actually in this recording because I had something very grown up happening. I had a furniture delivery. We're upgrading our furniture here at the Rabell Kaufman household because our youngest is a teenager and we can actually have grown-up furniture these days. So that was exciting. And I actually invited you back on to talk first about your workbook, but also kind of about how to level up responsibly as we go through the different life stages of being a grownup. So welcome back.

Erin Lowry:

Love to be here, love this topic.

Bobbi Rebell:

I know, we've known each other quite a while. Take me back to the beginnings of Broke Millennial when you really were broke.

Erin Lowry:

I was. It started as a blog for those who are unfamiliar back in January of 2013, but the actual broke millennial behavior predated that. I moved to New York in 2011. I was working three different jobs. I was a page for The Late Show with David Letterman. I was a barista at your favorite mermaid logo Starbucks coffee chain. I also was a babysitter. I was working opening Starbucks so I'd have to get there at like 4.30 or 5. Then I would run home, shower to get the smell of coffee beans off me, go to my next job working as a page. I would do that from usually about noon to 6 depending on the taping day. And then I would go from that to babysitting and I was usually there from about 6.30 to either 10.30 or 11 and rinse and repeat. And for all of that, I made my first year about $23,000. So I'm going to go ahead and do that. I was very broke, but also very industrious. Sometimes I think back on that phase of my life and mixed behaviors. I was taking leftovers home from absolutely anything I could. If there was a leftover to be had, it was going in a Ziploc bag and coming with me home. At Starbucks especially, we couldn't give away the food because there was a liability risk. But if it was... at past expiration or past sell-by date, but still totally safe for consumption, it would have to get thrown out. So I was like, could we throw this out into my backpack so I can take it home? The amount of sodium that I was ingesting at that phase of my life, I'm very fortunate my heart didn't explode. But so many of these behaviors were about trying to minimize costs elsewhere. Like I was trying to offset my grocery bill. I would do so many hack things like. stand in line for a really long time to get rush tickets to a Broadway show before you could like digitally enter lotteries. And I had like a really fun social life, but it was balanced out with spending a ton of time in order to get tickets to things, usually waiting like three to four hours before a box office opened. And that my friend is the biggest way I've leveled up my life is now I'm like, Oh, no, I will pay the money for the tickets.

Bobbi Rebell:

Doesn't that feel so good?

Erin Lowry:

So good.

Bobbi Rebell:

So good. And by the way, I do want to remind everyone leftovers are not just for struggling broke millennials. Everyone should take home leftovers if you don't finish your meal. I still do it. I do it all the time. I know maybe it's a little embarrassing. Maybe I shouldn't, but I do. I do. I think that you shouldn't waste food no matter what. And there are now, there's even apps now. I think one is called Too Good to Go. We'll leave the link in the shownotes,as they say. And I use that, although I feel like that's very carby too. There's a lot of carbs.

Erin Lowry:

anybody who lives in a city with too good to go, if you're hosting something, it can be a really great way to kind of do a potlucky style host from professionally cooked food. A, so much of it freezes well. So even if it's like, well, tonight I don't necessarily want this XYZ food item, just freeze it and then bring it out at a later date or use it as a side on something. So it doesn't have to be like too carb heavy depending on how you eat.

Bobbi Rebell:

Wait, quick tangent, we should explain what it is to people that don't know. And also, I want you to tell us what kinds of things you get, because I tend to get the baked goods, so maybe that's my issue. You obviously have a better methodology, so give us that random tip.

Erin Lowry:

Well, first, ToonGood to Go is an app where local restaurants, also grocery stores, all sorts of different food purveyors are in the app. And at the end of their business day, they have a ton of surplus. So they will pack little baggies and you can claim one. I think it runs in cost from maybe like $4 to $10, kind of depending on where you're getting it from. And it's always a grab bag, a surprise of whatever they have leftover. And depending on the time they close. So there's a pizza shop near me that might not be a till 1030 or 11 p.m. pickup, but, you know, the Alice's Tea Cup near me, which is always like scones and delightful pastries, the one near you probably doesn't do.

Bobbi Rebell:

I should do that too.

Erin Lowry:

Yep. So they are usually maybe like a 4 p.m. pickup, so you can also kind of decide based on your day. So you pay in the app, a couple of bucks, go in, you show your phone to the person who just hands you a little baggie and you got a surprise delight meal and you're saving food, which is great. The other thing I would recommend for folks who live in an area where there is an unhoused population is if it's food that you want to rescue, but don't necessarily either want to consume yourself or you just want to give, it's a really great way to also save food and then redistribute to people in need in your area.

Bobbi Rebell:

Excellent. All right. Back to upgrading your lifestyle responsibly as we move beyond the broke phase, broke millennial in your case. I was never really truly broke, but I was definitely watching my pennies as a Gen Xer, and I'm sure this applies to many Gen Z. It applies to everybody. How do we level up as we grow up?

Erin Lowry:

Well, the big thing obviously is to consider lifestyle creep, right? Like everybody always talks about, oh, lifestyle creep, it's so bad, it's so dangerous. And while that can be true, sometimes it's necessary as well. Like there are certain behaviors that I was engaging in when I was broke that I don't need to nor want to do, nor is it beneficial necessarily to my life now. But other ones that are great, like prioritizing saving and making sure that I'm spending within my means. So I would say it's important to holistically evaluate. what behaviors you're holding onto from different stages of your life, and determine are they helpful or harmful to what I am trying to achieve financially. Now oftentimes if we're thinking about prioritizing saving, living within your means, AKA budgeting, AKA spending plan, whatever you want to call it, those are helpful behaviors. And as you earn more, you can obviously spend more, but you also want to make sure it's in alignment with what you actually value. I think sometimes people come into money at a certain phase of their life and then get a little overexcited about it and maybe spend on things that they think they're supposed to have at XYZ stage of life as opposed to, I want to actually own this. And my last tip is invest in quality. I think sometimes we just buy things because we think we're supposed to have them or we just try to find the cheapest option, not necessarily the best play because you end up replacing them way too quickly.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah, I've definitely made that mistake, especially with some very cheap furniture that I bought early on that I thought I would trade up from very quickly. But in fact, it's been more than a decade and I got stuck with furniture that's really low quality because I didn't want to splurge at the time. And I think there's kind of a happy medium. What are some examples of ways, specific things that people should level up on? And what are some examples of things that are the common mistakes?

Erin Lowry:

That's a great question because I do find that to be hyper-specific to what you need and want in life and kind of where you are. One thing that I think is a really interesting example for New York City or other walking cities, shoes. That's one where a lot of times we tend to kind of skimp or cheap out and buying high-quality shoes. walking as your main mode of transportation is an incredibly important investment. And also something that maybe you could go to a cobbler and have your shoes resold as opposed to keep throwing them out and buying new ones over and over. That is something that's actually an interesting investment where you might live in a city that you know that's not as important. You can kind of buy the cheaper version of shoes. So that to me is always an interesting difference because I remember my friends calling that out for me very early on. Like you have such expensive sneakers. Yeah, because they last a long time and I walk everywhere all the time. So thinking really what is important to you. Another classic example I think about with travel, right? There are people who are going to fight to the mattresses on the idea of, oh, you should buy first class or oh, you should never, ever, ever pay for first class. In fact, buy the absolute cheapest ticket you can on a flight because who cares how you're getting there? What matters is when you're there. It depends, right? It totally depends on the person. It depends on the time of day you're flying. It depends on how old you are. It depends on what your mobility levels are. It depends on what the intent of the trip was. If you're getting off a red-eye flight to give a keynote speech, you probably don't want the last row in front of the bathroom on an airplane because you need to have slept before you get there. So again, I think so much of how we invest and use and spend our money. needs to be in alignment with something that actually matters to us and works for us and just cancel out the rest of the noise of people telling you what you should be doing all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you make a good point about when it matters more, like the example you gave of the keynote, that's really a business choice. That's a business investment in yourself. Even you might see a young person driving a really fancy car, but you find out that they are in a business where they have clients in their car. For example, a real estate agent driving a client around, maybe that's important to have a fancy car that they wouldn't normally have. So it all has to be put in context.

Erin Lowry:

It does. And I also think we live in a time where there's such a different economy around acquiring objects, where you have buy-nothing groups, for instance, where you can get things that are gently used for free. There is also such an economy around renting, particularly if you work in an industry where you need to have certain outfits all the time. Maybe you're on air. Maybe you have to attend certain kinds of events. Do you need to invest in every single piece of clothing or could you rent some of this clothing or at the very least borrow from some of your peers? So I do think that's the other part here is while I do think there's a lot of validity in investing in high quality pieces, when can you also just figure out another way to obtain something that you need, particularly for a short period of time? Parenting I think is another great example of that. There seems to be so much pressure around getting the best for your kid, what you need to use, what you're supposed to be having. One, talk to other people to see if they actually used those things. Shout out also to wedding registries. Ask people what did they actually use and what they didn't from their wedding registries. But when it comes to parenting, how long is your kid going to be an infant? Pretty short period of time. So do you need to be buying all of those things? Could you get hand me downs? Could you rent them? Is it something that you want to keep cluttering in your house? So that's the other thing to really think through.

Bobbi Rebell:

Absolutely, and I definitely second that with all the parenting because I will tell you after many years of parenting The number one most popular gift and many parents will agree with me is the box that the gifts come in That's what the kids actually will play with. Let's talk about the workbook Okay, you have three best-selling books in the broke millennial series, but now you have a workbook. Tell us more about it

Erin Lowry:

So the workbook is largely based on the first book, Broke Millennials, Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together. But now we have Broke Millennials workbook, Take Control and Get Your Financial Life Together. It is all new material. It is really this concept of you can do all the reading you want, but you have to put pen to paper and you actually have to put plans into action. So it's really meant to encourage you to do the hard things like face your numbers, like create a debt plan, like figure out how to handle your student loan. Shout out to the fact that those are coming off of a pause pretty soon. So it's really important to actually do the work and not just read about the content and the theories.

Bobbi Rebell:

And I do find that I still make lists actually on paper. There's something about writing things down. I love apps. I love all kinds of programs on the computer that can calculate. investment returns and all the things. But there is something very tangible about having a physical workbook and being able to work through your numbers and really see them. And maybe if there's somebody else, if you have other stakeholders in your finances, whether it's a spouse or a family member or what have you, sometimes it's something you can sort of do together or show each other and it becomes a lot more real than showing people on the screen.

Erin Lowry:

Absolutely. And the other big part too is there's a lot of focus around setting goals and the psychology of money. So really kind of digging into not only your why around money, but how you emotionally relate to money. Because, spoiler alert, that's what's going to impact everything for your whole life.

Bobbi Rebell:

Absolutely. And that's actually that brings me, I can plug my own company, Financial Wellness Strategies, which focuses on just what you said, the psychology of money and finding ways to approach money that are more than just learning what it is, is learning why we do the things we do and what we can do to change the things that we're doing so we get to where we want to go. That was a little convoluted, but hopefully that made some sense. Aaron, where can we find out more about you? I know that the workbook and all of your bestsellers are available. everywhere. Where can we follow you, Brooke Millennial, and learn more about your next adventures? Actually, I didn't even ask you what are your next adventures.

Erin Lowry:

taking a little time off of book writing, which I say every time one comes out,but it'strue right

Well, you can find me on sub stack at broke millennial with Erin Lowry, Instagram at broke millennial blog, brokemillennial.com is the website, and the books are available wherever books are sold, the most recent being broke millennial workbook, and you do not have to have any other book in the series in order to use the workbook.

Bobbi Rebell:

But you should get all the books. All right, thank you so much.

Erin Lowry:

Thanks very much for having me back. Always wonderful to be here.

This week’s extra credit assignment is to do something off screen. It can be Erin’s Broke Millennial workbook. It can be reading a physical book. It can be writing someone in your life a little note to say that you appreciate them. Not a text, a note that you leave somewhere they will find it - or even mail them a note. Something away from a screen.

Let me know what you choose by DM-ing me on instagram at bobbirebell1. And if you are not already please stay in touch for more grownup money tips by signing up for my newsletter at bobbirebell.substack.com.

Big thanks to Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJune 27, 2023Template

How to be a grownup Financial Feminist with Tori Dunlap (Encore)

Episode Description: Tori Dunlap of Her First 100k returns to the podcast to share how she grew her multi-platform business, highlights from her bestselling book Financial Feminist and her advice for financial grownups who want to focus on financial wellness in 2023

A little sneak peek into Tori Dunlap’s episode!

Timestamps & Main Points:

00:00 - Introduction
03:58 - “Worry Less".”
06:27 - You have big dreams until society tells you they’re to big.
10:48 - You show up differently for your career.
12:34 - Financial wellness is actually the thing that is the hinge for all of the rest of it.

Listen to Tori’s first appearance on the podcast back in 2018 HERE!

Tori’s Bio:

Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert, and podcast host. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over three million women negotiate salary, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.

Host of the #1 Business Podcast, Financial Feminist; author of the book “Financial Feminist” (Harper Collins); and co-creator of Treasury, an investing education platform that has over $30M invested (featured on New York Times Business front page), Tori's work has been featured on Good Morning America, the Today Show, NBC, Fortune, BBC and more.

A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, Tori now travels the world writing and speaking about personal finance, online businesses, and confidence for women.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

The podcast: https://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/
Buy Tori’s book Financial Feminist https://amzn.to/3pc2MI2
Bobbi on Tori’s podcast Financial Feminist

Follow Tori!

Instagram - @herfirst100k
Twitter - @herfirst100k
Facebook - www.facebook.com/herfirst100K/
Tiktok - @herfirst100k
Website - herfirst100k.com/

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies https://financialwellnessstrategies.com/

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Subscribe to the newsletter.
Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

Full Transcript:

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell- author of Launching Financial Grownups and the founder of Financial Wellness Strategies.

We are approaching the middle of the calendar year- a great time to take stock and reflect. I’m super excited for those of you that are hitting on all cylinders and getting it all done. For me- if we are being honest - things have been going ok. Earlier this year I launched a new business that you have been hearing about- and it has been gaining traction. But I also know that things are never the overnight instant hit you dream of. I remember when my first book came out back in 2016- How to be a Financial Grownup and I got a lot of amazing press and media support in the weeks around its release. A friend asked me how I did all that in just a few weeks. The truth is- I had been working on it for three years- and yet to her it looked like an “instant hit”

And that brings us to this week’s quote. It is from one of the founders of Twitter, Biz Stone.

“Timing, perseverance, and 10 years of trying will eventually make you look like an overnight success.”

This quote also hits home with the interview I’m sharing this week. I met Tori Dunlap soon after my first book came out- so 2017. Tori had a job and a lot of ambition. She was eager and a hard worker. But again, she had a job working for someone else doing social media and had her own venture- Victori-media on the side. But I was impressed and when she asked to be on the podcast- it was an easy yes.

It was 2018. At that time she had not even created the Her first 100k brand that has made her millions. It was such smart marketing. I remember her emailing me ahead of time asking for introductions to my media contacts. She was never shy about leveraging her network. Tori was going to save 100 thousand dollars by age 25. She did it and used it as a platform that has now extended to include her Financial Feminist podcast and bestselling book by the same name. Oh also she has more than 2 million tik tok followers. She came back on the podcast to talk about that venture earlier this year.

Here is Tori Dunlap

Tori Dunlap:

Thank you for having me. It's been a minute.

Bobbi Rebell:

I have been watching your star rise. You are now out with, and I have the privilege, we had some scheduling things, so I get to interview you. Your book's been out about a month, super bestseller everywhere, New York Times, the whole deal. Your podcast, top of the charts. How are you feeling? I know you're taking a big vacation.

Tori Dunlap:

I'm feeling pretty tired but very fulfilled. This was very much a team effort. Me and my team worked really, really hard. And yeah, New York Times was something that I had just nonstop thought about really for my entire life, but especially the last six months to a year. And it was so validating to have that happen, but also a really interesting thing where I'm like, okay, what now? So we're going to take a vacation and figure that out.

Bobbi Rebell:

Definitely deserving a vacation. And I love that you said that because we were just talking. You were on my podcast. We'll put the link October 3rd, 2018, still in a 9:00 to 5:00, still under a different brand before you came up with a genius that is, Her First $100K, such a great brand name and Financial Feminist. How is that even available because it's so perfect. In the before times I know when I came out with my first book, which was around the time I met you. Probably it came out in 2016, I probably met you 2017 ish. People were shocked. They're like, how did you get in Cosmo Magazine? How did you get all this press coverage and everywhere, all over the place and all the TV? And I was like, yeah, you just didn't notice that I was working two jobs for years. Talk to me about that. What advice, for example, would you give to the Tori that I met in the before times?

Tori Dunlap:

Worry less. I'd tell that to yesterday's Tori, and I'd tell that to today's Tori and future Tori. My ambition has been kind of a drug for me where it's got me where I am. I also, it's very easy to overdose if we're continuing the metaphor. It's so interesting because back in 2018 I had all of these aspirations and all these goals and I've achieved most of them and I still want to keep going. And so it's just really interesting to think about. I was very concerned with how much I wanted things and the timeline it was happening and it's like truly it all works out at some point. And I joke that the business I knew I was capable of in 2018, if a genie had come out of the bottle and then here's the business, I wouldn't have been equipped to run it. I wouldn't have had the skillset, I wouldn't have had the experience and the trials and tribulations.

And so it's so interesting even to think about, what was that, almost five years ago where it's just absolutely nuts to think about how much has changed in that time. But also the common question I get now from people, which is very sweet, is it's like, did you ever think? And I'm like, yeah, I did. And that's a very, we don't like hearing women say that. You're supposed to say like, "Oh my God, I never thought I was capable of this. I never thought any of this would happen." And I'm like, no, I knew, but I just didn't know when and I didn't know how, and I was very impatient. So I would say worry less, be excited where you're at.

Bobbi Rebell:

Worry less. But also one thing that struck me in remembering some of our sort of behind the scenes conversations, and we've had a few over the years. I remember talking to you soon after you sort of blew up on TikTok. One thing you said to me was I didn't just go on. I took a step back first. I watched and I listened. And by the way, you're in my book, Launching Financial Grownups, and you talk about the importance of taking a step back and listening. And in that case it's about generational communication about money. But you've always been someone that even though you have this ambition, you're very thoughtful and intentional. This is not something that happened accidentally. It's not something where you got lucky, you actually had plans and then implemented them. So talk to people about that, whether it's TikTok or whatever, their sort of goal that is going to shock people when they say, I will be doing this. Talk about how you plan.

Tori Dunlap:

Yeah, the first thing is I have a ton of privilege. So it's like how much of this is hard work and how much of this is privilege? I think it's both. So it's the first thing to really talk about. Second, I talk about this in my book Financial Feminist, but I think especially as women are a member of any marginalized group, is you have big dreams until society tells you that they're too big. And this happens all the time. You have these big aspirations as a kid. I want to be an astronaut, I want to be a this, and it's like, and then at some point society tells you, play smaller, take up less space. And I think actually one of the big bravest, most outrageous things you can do is say things that might shock people. I was like you're going to do that. And I'm like, yeah, of course I'm going to do that. And also with women is that we do have the tendency because we've been told to play small, is we set these smaller goals for ourselves because we're worried of failure.

And the truth is, it's even my 100K goal, back in the day when I was starting my own hundred, you know trying to progress towards saving a 100K at 25, I remember my dad well intentionedly, but he called me and he was like, "So you've gone public with this goal, what if you don't hit it?" And I'm like, then I have $80,000. And that's still a huge accomplishment. And yeah, I might not hit it, but I purposely set a goal that was felt a little challenging and felt at times, how am I going to do this? As opposed to just like, oh yeah, I'll save the money that I know I can during a period of time. And so when you're setting goals, it's a big brave thing to shock people with how big they are. But shock yourself too. Be like, I'm not exactly sure how this is going to happen, but I'm going to set it and work towards it and even if it doesn't happen, I've still made a ton of progress.

Bobbi Rebell:

So this is your first of many bestsellers. No doubt. I've written two books, not New York Times bestsellers. So guys, help me out. And again, this is being recorded about a month after it's been out. So you've been talking to people, you've been hearing reactions, you have a huge audience that gives you feedback and they are not shy about it. If you could take one sort of theme from the book that you wish you had said more about or that you regret you didn't say enough about, however you want to phrase it, given the reaction of your audience what would that be? What do you wish you said more of and maybe would be the light to the next book, the pathway to your next book?

Tori Dunlap:

Yeah, that's a great question. I haven't really thought about that. Obviously I'm biased, but most of the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. I think that it was a really great opportunity for me to create something very tangible and physical for a very digital business. And I think that that's just been so thrilling is being able to give money advice that also acknowledges all of the systemic barriers and the patriarchy and also insert a Timothy Shalome reference or an office quote. And that's very much me. So the vast majority, and especially from our audience, people have been loving it, which is lovely. I don't wish I had done this differently, but it's a good reminder. Some people come to the book and they're like, all right, I'm ready for more. And that's a perfect segue into next book because this is a very like-

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, I guess that's what I'm asking you is what resonated the most, I guess is what I'm asking. What really hit home that you're like, yeah, for me there was a chapter where I literally go through how a paycheck looks and what you need to know about each thing, all this ridiculous jargon that they put in. And there was talk at one point that I should cut it out because everyone knows it. That chapter hits home, people love it. And I'm like, wow, I should do more of this is literally what all the acronyms are. What for you stands out like, oh my god, they love this. I had it in there, but I didn't really, I underestimated how important this theme was.

Tori Dunlap:

I think the question I keep getting asked book and other things, when we get feedback from people, which we get messages now every five minutes, and it's so humbling and it's always like I paid off $10,000 of debt. I negotiated 20% raise. But the interesting thing, it is always the second part that just hits me in the face, which is comma, and I feel so much more confident in every aspect of my life now. And one of the things that we really talk about internally as a team with Her First 100K is like we're not really a financial company. We are a women's or a feminist company that happens to talk about money and that confidence when you are financially whole and financially stable ripples through every aspect of your life. And so actually that's something I'm really interested in exploring more of is what does it feel like to be confident as a woman, and how does that actually all stem from getting your financial stuff together? Because I think you show up differently in your relationships.

You show up differently in your career. I know if I go on a date and a man disrespects me, it's like, I don't have the time for you. I'm not going to do this. I don't need anything from you. I don't need money from you. I don't need stability. I have built that for myself. If I go into a work with a client or if I was still working a 9:00 to 5:00 and yet I had this financial stability, I can leave at any time. I can say, actually, this isn't serving me anymore. And what, again, we were talking about playing small versus playing big, what an incredible opportunity to walk into any room and know, a, I belong here, and b, if things get uncomfortable, I don't have to be here because I have the confidence, the stability, the option to walk away. That's one thing we're really interested in exploring in the future and potentially with a second book or a third book, is like what does that look like to not only be financially confident, but to use that confidence to show up differently in every aspect of your life?

Bobbi Rebell:

So brilliant, and it really ties into something we're talking about so much on the podcast for 2023, which is financial wellness, that it's not just about the numbers, it's about how you approach the numbers, because sometimes you can't solve your problems overnight and sometimes because of the systemic issues you can't solve them at all, and you have to find workarounds to just make your life work. Can you talk a little bit about the idea of financial wellness and how that impacts our overall wellbeing?

Tori Dunlap:

Yeah. I mean specifically with women, I think it's really interesting because we have these different definitions of wellness and a lot of it's been gentrified and commodified, but financial wellness seems to often get left out of the conversation. It's physical wellness, it's now mental wellness, which is so important, but it's also, again, if you want to go to therapy, you need money. You want to go to the gym, you need money for a gym membership and financial wellness is actually the thing that is the hinge for all of the rest of it. And I think there's something so beautiful about this idea of, again, when you have money, you have options and that you can use money to buy stability and happiness and to try to navigate capitalism to the best of your ability. We talk in the book about the personal finance equation.

A lot of people think it's a hundred percent personal choices. My not so secret nemesis, Dave Ramsey likes to think that it's a hundred percent personal choices, and the reason you're not rich is because you don't work hard. And like you said, I think it's about 20% personal choices and 80% systemic factors like racism, ableism, sexism, homophobia, recession, lack of paid family leave, all of the things that you're up against as not an individual but at a society level. And so all we can do is try to navigate it to the best of our ability to try to take care of ourselves so that when we're taken care of we can start changing the world for everybody else. But I think that starts with, like you said, financial wellness. That starts with you putting your oxygen mask on first. You can then help others, and so you can also create a plane where everybody gets an oxygen mask. It's not just for a select few individuals.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tori, thank you so much. I love watching your star shine brighter and brighter. Tell everyone, the few people that may not know where to follow you, find you, all the things we know everyone, your book, your book is everywhere. Sold out some places, by the way, let's just put that out there, but give your plugs.

Tori Dunlap:

Thank you, Bobbi, for your support of me since the beginning. Her First 100K is where you can find me, H-E-R-F-I-R-S-T100k.com. @herfirst100k on all the socials, and I host the Financial Feminist podcast and I'm the author of the Financial Feminist book.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you, Tori.

Tori Dunlap:

Thank you.

One of my favorite things Tori said was when she talked about financial wellness- saying put on your oxygen mask first so you can help everyone- but also think about creating a plane where everyone gets an oxygen mask.

This week’s extra credit is inspired by Tori’s idea of taking care of yourself first. Think of a gift you would bring to a friends party- a hostess gift basically. Something inexpensive that just shows thoughtfulness. And buy it for yourself. In my case I bought the shower equivalent of bath bombs that I recently discovered at my local Target. They are called shower steamers. I got the mixed scent one which has lavender, coconut and vanilla. It cost about $10.

If you are enjoying this podcast- please share with your community - take a quick screenshot and share on social- tag me at bobbirebell1 on instagram and please follow me on tiktok where I post tips and clips from various media appearances - and get some free money tips by subscribing to my substack newsletter- bobbirebell.substack.com.

And thanks to Tori for helping us all be financial grownups.- let’s all remember to invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJune 20, 2023Template

Student loan strategies and managing complicated family dynamics with author Melissa Jean-Baptiste

Episode Description: Melissa Jean-Baptiste, author of So This is Why I’m Broke: Money Lessons on Financial Literacy, Passive Income, and Generational Wealth shares her student loan story, the strategies she learned from it, and how we can all avoid the downward spiral of debt.

Video Highlight: Melissa Speaks about Millennial in debt.

Melissa’s Bio: Melissa Jean-Baptiste, financial educator and author of So This Is Why I'm Broke: Money Lessons on Financial Literacy, Passive Income, and Generational Wealth is a first-generation Haitian American and former NYC high school teacher. As the Beyonce of personal finance, she paid off $102,000 dollars in student loan debt on a teacher’s salary while writing and producing the award-winning Millennial In Debt web series. She has since pivoted into personal finance and career coaching to help millennials and Gen Z build generational wealth and gain financial freedom in a shame-free digital environment. She can be found at millennialindebt.com and millennialindebt on all social platforms.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Melissa!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies - www.financialwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Melissa Jean-Baptiste, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Melissa:

Hi, oh, I'm a grown up, I feel so excited. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I know you're not the first person that said that, but I will tell you everyone that comes on this podcast, you are not allowed to come if you are not a financial grownup, and you very much are. And congratulations on your new book. “So this is why I am broke” I'm looking around to hold this up in case we use this little clip in our promotional. We're both, okay, for those of you just listening, we are both holding up our pretty, pretty copies of this book. The most cool, like this is such a cool cover. I just I'm not going to tell people what it was. They have to go and Google it so they can see it for themselves. But it is, so this is why I am Brooke. Money lessons on financial literacy, passive income, and generational wealth. We're going to talk a lot, especially about the idea of generational wealth and what holds a lot of people back from that. But before we do so, I want to give people some context because you have a very unique and yet not that unique background. You were the child of immigrants from a Caribbean background, but born and raised in New York. And you're a child of immigrants. It was a very, sounds like you had a very nice upbringing in many ways, supportive parents, really valuing education, supportive, really pushing you and your siblings to achieve.

Melissa:

Yes, absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:

And yet, and yet,

Melissa:

And yet.

Bobbi Rebell:

you found yourself in some financial trouble. So at a very early age, really in your student years and the years right afterwards, tell us a little bit about briefly about your upbringing and then sort of where things derailed from this lovely upbringing and so we're giving a shout out to your very supportive parents that it is well-intentioned and well-meaning and really successful parents because you did get into a great school with scholarship money and all the things.

Melissa:

Yes. Yeah, so I always talk about it. I always big up my parents. They did a wonderful job raising us with the best that they could, but I'm first generation. They came from Haiti. They didn't really have all the answers that I would need or the tools and resources that I would need in order to be financially fit is what I call it, as an adult. There were a lot of things that there were a lot of gaps that had to be filled. And so when I graduated from college in 2010, I graduated with two degrees. I got a job. I was like, I am doing. everything I'm supposed to be doing. I am the epitome of an adult. I'm making my parents proud. And then three years later, I try to buy my first house, no savings account, by the way. I don't know what I was thinking. And that's when I find out that my debt was actually ballooning. Although I was paying off monthly, paying off the minimum, the balance had increased from the 50,000 I initially borrowed and was now hovering around 80,000. And so the real estate agent really kind of slapped me back into reality, like, oh, you have a really high debt-to-income ratio. we're not going to be able to get you approved for very much money. And from New York, $100,000 is not going to get you much of anything. You might get a Barbie house. Um, and so that really was eye-opening that not only did I not know a lot of things, but my parents also didn’t know a lot of things, and I was kind of taking on that responsibility of learning and teaching them and teaching my brothers. So it really kind of was an, all-hands-on-deck to kind of learn how to navigate money the right appropriate way.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, you've given us a great opening to one of the first lessons, which is don't assume the people around you know what they're doing. And it's always okay to ask questions

and even to figure things out on your own. For example, you are not the first person, whether it's student loan debt or credit card debt that has paid the number that is often the biggest number that they show you on the bill. And then you dutifully set up the automatic payments. But little did you know what happened was, and what this real estate agent did you a big favor of showing you, was that you had paid three years, you had been paying off what you thought you owed, you assumed it was paying the principal. In fact, you had unknowingly signed yourself up for, or someone else signed you up for, an interest-only payment plan. And maybe, well, you tell me, I mean, did they just say, here are your choices of payments and you picked the lowest one? I mean, what happened there?

Melissa:

That is exactly what happens. So typically they'll give you that six month grace period where you graduate in May or June and you don't have to make your first payment until around the holidays. And so they sent me that first letter in June. I was like, who cares? Like this is summertime, I'm having fun. And so when that October, November time period came and they send that letter again, like, oh, you have to choose which payment you're going to be making or we're gonna take the standard payment, which was about $1,100. As a teacher, I'm like, I'm not giving anyone $1,100. I'm not gonna be able to drive or eat or do anything besides pay this bill. And so I chose the lowest payment, but I didn't know that that lowest payment was only going to tackle the interest. And then besides that, I didn't know that there was going to be more interest added than the payment itself. So if I was paying $210, they were adding 350 a month. And so I was never actually attacking the principal and I was barely even covering the interest. And I just don't know at 21. what anyone could have told me to choose a different option because that low payment just seems so alluring. You have so much other money you could do things with, but I didn't realize what I was really signing up for was an eternity of debt, an eternity of loans, you know, to kind of derail all my other hopes and goals and aspirations.

Bobbi Rebell:

And to back it up even further, at 17 when you were entering college, what you also didn't know is when does that interest start accruing?

Melissa:

Yes. So I went to a really great high school, which is another thing like you can go to all the best schools and all the best places and these things these conversations just aren't coming up. And so when I was Signing up for this loan, I had no idea what the difference was between subsidized and unsubsidized. I didn't know that I could make payments while I was in school. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's on deferments. I don't have to worry about that. But had I known that I had so many unsubsidized loans, which are the type that gain interest, the minute you sign that promissory note that you're going to pay this money, they start tacking on that interest, I would have. I don't know if I would have done different, but I would have at least known, I would have been cognizant that, oh, this $7,000 by the time you graduate, it's gonna be around $9,000. So I'm like, I wish, these are things I wish I had known and I'm so happy to share with people now so they can make better decisions, right?

Bobbi Rebell:

And you know, it's so this is going to come out very soon after the president has announced that they are resuming student loan payments.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

Now, the pause in the student loan payments that's been going on for the last few years, that was sort of what I would say a real pause. In other words, if you had those loans, you really it really was like they stopped time. That was not the case for you when the interest was accruing. The other thing I want you to talk about is that the interest rate can change on you and very few people know about this.

Melissa:

Oh my goodness, yes. So that was probably one of the worst and most shocking things to see was I'm like, oh, when I signed this loan at 17, when I signed this loan at 18, it was

Bobbi Rebell:

at 17 was anybody talking to you? Did you have a high school counselor anyone your parents? anyone in there with you

Melissa:

I had a high school counselor, but they weren't there with me when I had to sign up for classes or when I had to sign this loan. They were just like, oh, yeah, go to the best school. You get

a scholarship. You'll do this. But no one sat down and talked to me.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay.

Melissa:

And definitely no one talks about affordability, right? They're like, oh, you know, this is what you're going to do if you're going into this major. This is what you typically can expect to make. And this is how long it will take you to pay off your loans, right? These conversations would be so. I was like, I'm just going to sign this. I need the money. I need to sign up for classes. I don't want to be closed out of any classes. And then 10 years later, I'm looking at the almost $100,000 in loans. I'm just like, oh, wow, this is not, yeah, this is not what I signed up for. I signed up to teach kids how to read, you know, like this is just the thought pattern was really different and it would have been really important to understand that if I'm signing a loan today with a variable interest rate. that in three years and five years when I graduate, it's not going to be that 7%. It's gonna be closer to 16%, which is going to be tacking on a lot more interest and I'm paying this interest only payment. So I just really had a lot of odds stacked against me. And that was just due to my things that I didn't know, my own ignorance. And so read the terms.

Bobbi Rebell:

read the terms, right? This is so, so that therefore you started teaching reading instead of reading sort of age appropriate. I can see you coming into class and maybe instead of reading, whatever the assigned reading normally is, you're having your, your students read student loan, you know, documents and understanding because that, I mean, honestly, like all kidding aside, maybe that's the reading we should be teaching people is don't forget to read the big print and the little print. every single thing that you sign. And we've all been there. I'm a homeowner. I can tell you, I have not read every single document related to the home that I own. I read a lot, I read a lot, but definitely, I mean, the piles of paperwork that people throw at you sometimes can be overwhelming and it's often in a pressured environment because you don't really have choice. You don't necessarily have negotiating power as a 17-year-old. You just need the money. And you talk about in the book that... You didn't want to disappoint your parents by not graduating on time So when it came time to need more money, you just did what you needed to do You got the money through the loans and you weren't really shopping around necessarily not that you could have But you weren't going to shop around your goal was to make your parents proud

Melissa:

Right, absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:

And that goes to societal pressure One thing you talk about is the societal pressure to go to the what's perceived as and I'm gonna be very emphasizing college We have in this country some phenomenal public colleges that I think and community colleges that are very much underappreciated. Talk about your decision and what you would do differently there.

Melissa:

Yes. So especially in New York, we have some phenomenal CUNYs, which are city schools, phenomenal SUNY state schools. And at that time, at 17 years old, I was coming from a private school, a very like elite view, like a view of an elite school. And it was kind of frowned upon or people looked at you a little weird if you're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to the state school. I'm going to go to this city school. And it's not as prestigious as a private four year school. But I ended up, and I say this all the time, and there's no like, downside, I ended up teaching with some of the most amazing teachers in all these schools, who went to city schools, who went to state schools, we got the same education, we got the same degree, and we're working for the same salary, but they don't have student loans, or they have far less student loans than I have, and that really was super eye-opening, because I'm, you know, kind of complaining and the teacher's like, oh man, I have this like, 30,000, 40,000 left, 50,000 left, and we're. in the same teacher's lounge teaching the same thing. So there's no shame in going to a city school, a state school, a two year school, because you're getting that education that you need to be in the career that you want. And I wish I had known or been more understanding about that at 17. I mean, I don't know who really is, but that is definitely a conversation I'd go back to have with myself like, oh, you can go to the really amazing city school that has an amazing teacher program in your in your neighborhood. And you don't have to go to this four year school to prove anything to anybody. So. That's my advice for a 17 year old Melissa.

Bobbi Rebell:

100% and for all the 17 year olds out there and people of all ages that are frankly influenced by the people around you. That may be relatives that you want to please. We are not, I shouldn't say all of us, but a lot of us do want to make our parents proud of us and also maybe not competitive in a bad way, competitive in a good way with our siblings and our peer group. And you talk about the importance of who you surround yourself with in terms of your friends. and your peer group and the influence that can have, not just on what you spent on college, but on what you spend in life, that social pressure, especially cultural social pressure. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Melissa:

absolutely. So we've all heard the quote where you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I think it's really important to find your advisory board. And I talk about it like this all the time, because you're going to want to be in a group or in a room of people that even if they're not like minded, you have similar goals or similar ideas that you want down the line. And so it was really important for me to surround myself with people that wanted to build generational wealth that wanted to grow their wealth and even if they're not doing it the same way that I am or They're not talking about it in the same way that I am I wanted to make sure that I had good people in my corner or rooting for me to support the goals that I was doing And attacking without feeling like oh man. I can't go to brunch today or oh man. I'm not buying like the latest BMW I'm not keeping up with the people that I'm hanging around with right because it's like that social pressure is so real Especially when you're in your 20s and you see all your friends doing these things. We're like, oh I kind of I want to do that too. And I made a joke in my 20s. I'm like, how is everyone affording to go to Thailand? I can't even go get my nails done. But it's really important to have that advisory board that you can have these conversations with, especially people who have some more backgrounds and some more cultures with you. Because you're going through a lot of the same experiences, even if you're not publicly talking about that. And so one of those experiences is the black tax, which I talk about very often. And so I feel this pressure. And my friends and my family, they other people in my group, at my corner, I say, we all feel this pressure to do well, succeed, build wealth because we want to take care of our parents, or we wanna take care of our family, or we wanna make sure they're good, or like my parents are close to retire, my father just retired, shout out to him. And you wanna make sure that if something happens, that you can step in and take care of that. And that is really difficult to navigate alone, that conversation, that feeling. So it's so important that you... have that advisory board where you can discuss these things and figure out how to navigate them without feeling that over pressure that we're, because I already feel stressed, right? I don't wanna feel overstressed thinking about how I'm gonna make sure my parents are good or make sure my siblings are good.

Bobbi Rebell:

And how do you navigate that with friends too? Because there's also cultural pressure among your peer group.

Melissa:

Yeah, it's a lot of competition or it can be a lot of competition. So you have to pick your friends wisely. And you also have to know when a friendship has kind of run its course or is no longer the same, right? Because we tend to have friends from college. We tend to have friends from work or friends from high school. And sometimes you grow and evolve, especially when it comes to money or careers and what you want to do with your money and how you want to grow your money. Sometimes you can't keep that same group. That social pressure is going to keep you or prevent you from achieving the goals that you want to achieve or the job that you want to go and get or seek out. So I say that it's important to have these conversations but also know when to walk away and kind of adjust that group that you have in your current life.

Bobbi Rebell:

That's hard to do, friendshipbreakups.

Melissa:

yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:

How do you, do you have a conversation or do you sort of quietly ghost them? I mean, how, or do you try to save it? Sometimes they may not realize what they're doing and very often when you're wondering how they can afford something, the answer is they can't.

Melissa:

Right.

Bobbi Rebell:

And they're going into debt maybe because they're perceiving that you expected of them and it's maybe in some cases a friendship worth saving because.

Melissa:

Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:

You'll actually help them by saying, hey, you don't have to do this elaborate birthday dinner for me, let's just go chill, whatever it is. You know, sometimes it's a misunderstanding.What do you think about that?

Melissa:

I love that you said that. So I think it depends on the situation. I'm always for a conversation. I'm a big communicator. So the ghosting option is like, although in my early 20s, that might have been my choice. I think now it's super important. You know, whether having that communication, that conversation where it's like, okay, we're gonna, you know, go separate ways, or we're having that conversation to see if we can save it or see if we can see where the misunderstanding fell in through. And it's so funny that Millennial In Debt actually was born out of a conversation with a friend. communicating about how I felt about money and how I felt ashamed and embarrassed that I couldn't go to her group birthday that year. It was a really big birthday to her, and I'm like, I really can't afford to do this for you right now. I would love to celebrate you. I would love to take you out somewhere, but right now it's just not in my budget. And having that conversation was uncomfortable because I felt like I was letting them down. I felt like I wasn't being a good friend. I was ashamed that I was in that financial situation where I couldn't afford going to a birthday dinner with one of my closest friends. And... We sat down and she was just like, you know, I barely can afford, you know, this birthday celebration for myself. And I just wanted to kind of do something to celebrate myself. But she's just like, now that I'm thinking about it and navigating it, I can do something crucial, like super important to celebrate myself and it doesn't have to be this big elaborate thing. And I took her story with money and I started having other conversations that I were uncomfortable with my friends and family. And that created my first web series where I took all of their stories and kind of added a little bit of humor and education to it. But it really made it, it made my relationship stronger with these people because I was able to be vulnerable and tell them, you know, this is my financial landscape right now, these are the things I can't do, these are things I can do. And it just made it a lot more comfortable and it took a lot of that shame and pressure out of the mix. So I love that you say that a lot of times it is a misunderstanding. People just really don't know because we're not talking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Exactly, and it was a sigh of relief for her because she could kind of let her guard down and be like, yeah, let's just not. And then you can be so candid. It's like I once said to somebody, do we really need to order that big, shared appetizer? And she's like, no. And I'm like, let's just skip it

and move on. And sometimes it's better to just say it in a casual way and let them know that you don't need to be impressed because sometimes it's their insecurity that they're impressing you. We can all be good just going for a walk in the park together or whatever it may be.

Melissa:

yeah, I agree.

Bobbi Rebell:

Melissa Jean-Baptiste, you are wonderful. Tell us where we can find out more about you. I know your book is everywhere.

Melissa:

yes, book is everywhere. So this is why I'm broke.com if you'd like to take a look. But I am on all social platforms. I'm all over the internet, Millennial in Debt, Millennialindebt.com. Send me an email, DM. I'm always around ready to chat.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you for being here.

Melissa:

Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJune 13, 2023Template

Inclusive investing with Sweater Ventures’ Emma Clark

Episode Description:Venture capital investing has traditionally been only for the wealthy and well-connected. Sweater Ventures is out to change that with a new approach that creates opportunity for individual investors to participate in supporting a diverse portfolio of early stage companies.

Video Highlight: Emma’s mission to make investing more inclusive

Emma Clark’s Bio:

Emma Clark is the Chief Operating Officer at Sweater Ventures and has a wealth of experience across various industries. Previously, she served as Head of Business Operations & Analytics and Chief of Staff, among other positions, at Recurly. Prior to that, she worked as a Product Manager at JPMorgan Chase and started her career at a boutique, women-owned, public relations firm.

She is a founding member of The Old Girls Club, a virtual gathering space for talented women and non-binary people working in male-dominated industries, and holds a B.A. from Duke University.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com
Financial Wellness Strategies http://www.financailwellnessstrategies.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell: When it comes to money, I think we can all agree we can never know too much- or if we are being honest have too much but let’s focus here my friends. According to the Society for Human Resource Management the majority of working Americans indicate that the personalization of seminars and webinars on investing basics and financial planning is important to them. And in that same survey they add quote “Employers would be wise to add or expand desirable benefits like financial wellness to attract and retain talent”- in other words- companies need to step it up if they want to get the best people on their team. Financial Wellness Strategies is the solution. We provide the top of the line financial wellness programs for employees to create financial grownups who focus on their jobs, because they know they are in control of their personal finances. Learn more and get in touch at financialwellnessstrategies.com. That’s financialwellnessstrategies.com- The time is now to invest in peace of mind.

Brace yourself my friends because we are going to have a very financial grownup conversation about a topic I don’t think I’ve ever covered here because frankly it is not something that has been available to everyday investors and so it really wasn’t worth talking about. But as we will discuss- now it is. I am talking about venture capital investing- but for mainstream investors not just high net worth investors. What is venture capital investing? Basically, putting money into companies at early stages, often way before they go public. It is high risk. But can also be high reward. It may not be right for you but it is worth learning about.

LEt’s get to this weeks quote: Be so good they can’t ignore you- from the comedian Steve Martin.

I chose that quote because for women who want to get venture capital funding, or just be in the business, that’s what they have to be these days. So good they can’t be ignored. We’ll hear more about that from guest Emma Clark. She is the Chief Operating Officer at Sweater Ventures, which I partnered with for this special episode. Emma is going to share some stats that will probably upset you- and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The good thing is that Emma and the team at Sweater are working to make venture capital investing more inclusive. Let’s get to it.

Here is Sweater Ventures’ Emma Clark

Emma Clark, you are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Emma Clark:

Thank you for having me on, Bobbi. It's good to see you.

Bobbi Rebell:

I am excited to talk to you about inclusive investing and the democratization of investing options. You, as I mentioned, are the COO of Sweater Ventures. So before we get into all that, take us through what is Sweater Ventures.

Emma Clark:

Yeah, absolutely. So Sweater is on a mission to make investing more accessible to the everyday person. And so our goal is to open up more specifically venture as an asset class to the everyday person. We do that by allowing anybody to jump onto our platform, learn more about how you invest into venture capital, what the asset class is, what it means to invest into this asset class over a long period of time. We take them through that whole process. They can invest as little as $500. And then we have an investment team that fully manages running due diligence, finding the deals. And then we kind of give you court side seats to get an idea of what it's like to invest into a startup, what the stages of the startup look like. So that's what we are on a mission to do. And I'm happy to chat a little bit more about kind of how we got to where we are today.

Bobbi Rebell:

Before we do that, I want to take a step back and explain sort of what is venture capital investing and why has it not been so accessible to people because you have to often be very qualified. Can you explain that?

Emma Clark:

So there's something called accreditation. The accreditation rules have been around since the 1930s after the Great Depression. So the idea was that there, the SEC essentially said there are two groups of people, one that's accredited and one that's not accredited. Accredited, the definition is mostly for the everyday person applies to income. So someone who's accredited, you can have an income of more than $200,000 as an individual. or more than $300,000 as a couple, or you have some serious licenses because you are in the financial services industry. That means that the majority of Americans cannot invest into venture capital because to date, you can only invest into a qualified venture capital fund if you are an accredited investor. So that's been the rule for a long time. And so I think that that has kind of made venture capital this closed off system to most people. Most people don't know much about it. It's a little bit walled off. And part of that is due to the accreditation rules. And part of that is just due to historically how VC investments have been made in the past.

Bobbi Rebell:

So how does it actually work? Because when you go to your website, and it's so clear, I love the list of all the different portfolio companies, and those are the companies that you have investments in. It has things like pre-seed, seed. I mean, explain what are the different stages,and how does venture capital investing work?

Emma Clark:

Yeah, yeah. So I'll explain a little bit first about how sweater does it. So those accreditation rules that I described are traditionally how what we call private VC funds have operated. And that's under a certain regulatory, I won't go into all the details, but that's under a certain regulation that the traditional venture capital funds, that if you follow that industry at all, you know, the big names like an A16Z or a Sequoia have operated under this rule that says you can only have up to a certain amount of investors in the fund at any time, and they all have to be accredited investors. Sweater operates under a different regulatory world that's a little bit more like a mutual fund. So if you've ever decided to go and make investments in the public markets and investment to stock, you might look at ETFs or mutual funds. And that's a little bit more about how our fund works and why we're able to make it available to those that aren't accredited. So it's not like we're getting around the regulation. doing something illegal, it's very much in the vein of how a mutual fund essentially works. We're just instead saying, all right, great, we'll pull all that capital. And instead of investing on your behalf into public securities, we'll invest that into startups. And so then to kind of come back around to your question around stages, we right now invest into what we consider the earliest stage companies. And so when you look at stages like seed, series A, series B, series C. D, they're continuing companies are staying private for longer and staying in the private markets for longer. So now you're seeing like series E plus, you

could keep going down the alphabet. Really what that is an indicator of is a few things. One, how much revenue that company has, how long it's been in existence and really what the maturity level of it is. So every single time the company, the private company who's raising funds from venture capital is looking at raising another round. And to get to that next round from, let's say, a seed stage company to a series A company, they need to hit a kind of growth metrics to raise more funding. So the way that we evaluate it, just to kind of close that off, is we look at it and say, okay, there are certain things that we're looking for in a seed stage company. That's a very early company. There's a founder. We're looking at their profile. We're looking at their idea. They may not have a lot of revenue yet. but they're going to be at a lower valuation. A series C company, for example, will have certain qualifiers around the amount of revenue that they've generated over time, what their growth metrics look like, what their expenses and burn rate look like. And so there's just different metrics that a venture investor looks at, depending upon the stage of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:

why would somebody want to invest in a company that's not yet public? Because you mentioned companies are staying private for longer. So these are companies that if you were not accredited previously might not have been accessible to the everyday investor. But why does the everyday investor want that? I mean, traditionally, they might be very risky, which is why you had this accreditation barrier up there.

Emma Clark:

No, that's a great question. And that is one of the reasons why the accreditation rules exist. But I think that there's two ways to think about this in my mind. One, those accreditation rules existed in a time when information was not readily accessible and technology wasn't at a place yet where you could make it accessible to retail investors. What I'm really saying is there's institutional investors. Those are, you know, think about those like university endowments or pension funds. And then there's the everyday person. Historically, public market investing started with institutional investors only. And then it started to move over to the retail market once there was technology to allow that to happen at a more rapid pace. We see that happening in the venture market. So historically, it's been either very wealthy individuals or. institutional investors. And now that with the right level of regulation, and that's why we leverage the fund structure we do, because it's heavily regulated and we have to provide a lot more information upfront, and with technology and access to information, we believe that the retail investor absolutely has all of the resources to make the decisions, smart decisions around investing into venture. So that's one piece. I think the second piece is... just like the concept of venture being a risky asset class, it absolutely can be. I'm not going to say otherwise, but there are ways just like any risk in investing that you can mitigate that. And part of that is diversification. And so the reason that a retail investor might, I'm never going to go to an individual investor and say, yeah, put all of your money and savings into venture capital. That is not a smart solution. And that's never something that we would recommend. But just like if you go to any, you know, if you went to any investment advisor, they're going to talk to you a lot about diversification. How do you diversify the portfolio of savings that you have if you want to invest into the markets? And so venture has a few benefits from that. The first is it has really strong historical returns. So even in the last call it the period from 2007 to 2022. Um, we saw that Ventra as an asset class exceeded the performance in the S and P 500 by three X. And so it does have very strong returns overall as an asset class. The other thing that you talked about, Bobby, was companies are staying private longer. And so what you see is there's now an average of a company from start to the time it goes public is seven years. that is continuing to increase over time. And so you have these, you have these examples of companies that most of their growth years, the years where they're really accelerating growth are in the private markets, and then they go public. And then what happens is all of the best returns from that company are returned to the private market investors, not to the public market investors, because they've

hit this trajectory. They've gone like this, and then they had the public markets and then they just kind of steady growth. So companies like Rivian, Coinbase, Lyft, Uber, those are all examples

companies that saw really strong private market growth. And then it kind of had lackluster public, you know, I, you know, initial public offering performance. So that's the other reason you would look at it. And then the last thing I'd say is just diversification. So just like we talk about diversifying any portfolio, there, there's a lot of data that shows that there's not often a huge correlation. and return profiles between the public markets and stocks and the private markets. And so sometimes when the public markets aren't doing well, it's a great time to get into the private markets. And so if you think about taking a small portion of your investment and putting it into private markets, it helps you diversify your entire portfolio, especially in years when the public markets may not be doing as well. So that's kind of how we think about it.

Bobbi Rebell:

Tell me about the criteria that you use to select your portfolio companies because it is a unique perspective.

Emma Clark:

For our fund, so we talk about it like an investment thesis. And for us, because every, every traditional venture capital fund out there has what they consider an investment thesis, or I would say 95% of them do. And that helps them hone in on saying, these are the types of companies that we invest into. Some of them might be focused on climate technology. Some of them might be focused on consumer goods. Some are focused on software. We instead look across industries, but our main focus is what we call kind of community-driven. So there are companies that the everyday person, you, Bobbi, myself can purchase, can promote, can use. And the idea is that if I'm going to be an active investor into this fund, I want to invest in companies that I understand the problem statement for. Or if it's not me who would use it, maybe it's my husband or my children or my... mom and dad, there are things that I can understand will have an impact on the world that I live in. And so that tends to track a little bit more kind of B2C companies, but that's not always the case. So we have fantastic companies like Graza, who's an olive oil company that's all over

Whole Foods and everywhere else, if you've seen it, to Go, which is essentially trying to replace the leasing market for cars. And so that's... That's essentially our investment thesis. When it comes to criteria of how we assess a company, that's a little bit different, and it kind of depends on the stage.

Bobbi Rebell:

and we'll leave a link to the page that you have with all of the different portfolio companies.

I loved perusing this page because when you click on the companies, a lot of the time, either somebody from Sweater or somebody from the company has a video basically explaining why Sweater invested in this company, why they like it, the different attributes, maybe a little bit of a sneak peek into where the company's going, and it really makes you feel connected and understand where your money's actually going.

Emma Clark:

Yeah, that's the goal. I mean, a part of this is not only us being able to make good investments for the people who are putting money into the fund, but there's an educational component to it as well. And not everyone out there, regardless of whether or not you're accredited, even if you're an accredited investor, going and finding the companies to put money into, running the diligence on them to make sure they're good investments, and then being able to see that company grow. That's a decent amount of work. For us, what we want to do is give people what I said, this kind of front row seat to understand what early stage companies look like, what growth looks like. What does it look like to be a founder of one of these companies? So they can understand the journey from start to finish. So we will continue to put out great resources on these companies so that our community of investors and even non-investors can follow along.

Bobbi Rebell:

You do a great job connecting with people. And I know Sweater also gets out there with events where they're looking for companies to invest in. You do barn burner events and other things. Tell us a little bit about that and where we can learn more about Sweater and about you, Emma.

Emma Clark:

Yeah, yeah. So yes, that's funny. I didn't even introduce my background. So I came about, so I'll do a little bit of that and then I'll talk a little about Barnburner. So I have been at Sweater for about two years. And the main reason that my background is mostly in operating and fintech. And I was always really passionate. I was on the other side of the fence and there's an operator going out fundraising for the last company that I was at. And every time I looked around, I was the only woman in the room. And for me, that was just, maybe appalling is the wrong word, but just confusing. I didn't understand why there weren't more women in venture. And as I started to go down this lane of doing some more research around what the ecosystem looked like for women in the venture landscape, and by that, I mean the number of women who invest into venture capital funds, then the number of women who are decision makers in those VC funds. And then also the number of female founders, the numbers were not great. So, you know, it's women founded startups, raised less than 2% of all VC funds. And then in terms of US based VC partners, less than 5% of women, really they make up, women make up less than 5% of those funds and make up even less in terms of the decision makers within those funds. And so for me, When I joined Sweater, a big piece of helping build this mission from the start was by providing access to everybody to invest into this venture asset class. No longer kind of became an old boys club. So VC is a very closed system. It's like, hey, who do you know? You know, tap someone on the shoulder. Do you happen to know someone who has a good deal and only pass it to my buddy over here? And if you think about the last 50 years of finance, a lot of that has been who you know. And it started with being a primarily male. And so as we want to introduce and provide more opportunities for fantastic females out there that I know are starting good companies that I know would be great VC investors, I know would be good investors into venture as an asset class, I fundamentally believe that sweater by opening up to everybody is helping with that mission. And so that's my motivation and why I'm passionate about what we're building. So I say that because I think it's important to just kind of understand why. Yes, we want this asset class to be open to everyone, but what that fundamentally means for access to and truly democratizing venture capital. So the second piece of your question around barn burners. So this is actually a little bit a piece of that mission, which is around founders being able to get funding. So if you're an early stage company going out and getting venture capital funding right now is difficult. And so... we have created something called these barn burner pitch competitions. And the idea is that we allow the public to vote on the companies that they like best. And so we do this with some guardrails because we understand that not everybody knows, you know, how would you assess a good investment for a private company? So what we do is we have our investment team do some vetting and due diligence. And then we have the public either vote on the beginning half of that to get the founders to the final stage where they pitch the public, or we do it the other way around where we have our VC, our investors run your diligence, and then they push three companies to the stage and people get to vote on who they want to win. Winning for a company means anywhere between a $250,000 and $500,000 check into their business, which for a really early stage company is very meaningful because often these founders don't have that capital readily available to them. So these are exciting ways for us to provide more access to venture capital funding for founders but also a great way for individuals who maybe the people who are watching Shark Tank right now, right? To go in and actually be able to vote on these companies and watch the pitches and understand what these founders' stories are like.

Bobbi Rebell:

Love it. Thank you so much Emma!

Emma Clark:

thank you so much for having me, Bobby. I am glad to be considered a financial grownup. I will try to uphold that title well. And thank you as always.

Bobbi Rebell:

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanJune 6, 2023Template

Adulting money etiquette tips from Alyssa Mairanz

Episode Description: Adulting in the Real World creator Alyssa Mairanz shares her take on navigating the world as a financial grownup including tips on handling precarious social situations like group gifts, dinner bills, ordering delivery and managing parent/child relationships when adult kids live at home

Video Highlight: Alyssa talks about being open with your finances.

Alyssa Mairanz ’s Bio:Like many young people, Millennial business owner and Adulting in the Real World creator Alyssa Mairanz found herself with unforeseen debt in early adulthood. She graduated high school and college with honors, did everything she ‘was supposed to,’ yet there were some gaps in learning that left her in a bind. Inspired by her own struggles and growth, Mairanz created Adulting in the Real World to succinctly teach others how to build their dream adult life and master the basics of ‘adulting’ in an approachable way.

Adulting in the Real World (ARW) is a multimedia, interactive coaching academy founded by Alyssa Mairanz, LMHC, CBDT. The eponymous first e-course launched in September 2022 and seeks to set young adults up for success with their finances, health care, interpersonal communication, living on their own, and other pertinent life skills. ARW is a coaching service and is not therapy or a therapy replacement. For more information please visit www.adultingintherealworld.com.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

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Full Transcript:

Topics include

-setting up the best grownup everyday money habits

-managing those social media temptations to splurge.

-strategies to shop for the best deals

-demystifying and really understanding financial lingo

-strategies to steer friends and family away from bad money decisions.

-and how to know when you should ignore the math that says you “should’ do one thing with your money, and focus on your goals, even when it isn’t the best “financial decision”.

Welcome to a new episode of Wellness for Financial Grownups. I’m your host-certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell- author of Launching Financial Grownups and the founder of Financial Wellness Strategies.

We’re going to be talking about adulting in the real world but first let’s get to this week’s quote and it is something we do as adults a lot and it always bugs me- even though I have been known to do it- is when we feel we have to always have a new outfit for special occasions so this weeks’ quote is from actress Tiffany Haddish who famously wore a white Gucci dress over and over to lots of big events where she was photographed in it time and time again:

“When I saw the receipt, I cried. The dress was $4,122! So I’m wearing it multiple fucking times. I don’t care what nobody says – that’s a down payment on a car, that’s a medical bill,”

Love that. So this season if you splurge on an outfit- or even not- wear it as much as you want.

And let’s get to more real-world adulting lessons from this week’s guest: Alyssa Mairanz. She is a licensed mental health counselor and the brains behind the multimedia platform adulting in the real world.

We spoke about everything from how to deal with splitting the dinner check when you are out with friends- especially when they order up a storm, to how candid you should be when it comes to your finances- plus some great money-saving hacks you can put to work in your everyday life right now.

Here is Alyssa Mairanz:

Alyssa Mairanz you are a financial grownup ,welcome to the podcast!

Alyssa Mairanz:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to diving into everything.

Bobbi Rebell:

You are literally, I think, the perfect guest because you are the brains behind a multimedia course called Adulting in the Real World. So before I pump you for all of these wellness tips for our financial grownups, I want you to tell us a little bit about that.

Alyssa Mairanz:

So the premise behind adulting in the real world is essentially a one-stop shop for all the things you need to learn about entering adulthood that they don't teach you in school. We go through math and English, history, et cetera. And then you become an adult, and you're like, how do I deal with money? How do I navigate insurance? How do I navigate adult friendships, et cetera? And when I was becoming an adult, it took me a lot of time and money to find what I was looking for. And so I made it my mission to figure out how can I create an accessible platform where it's all the information in one place.

Bobbi Rebell:

Adulting in the real world is very precarious when it comes to things like you just mentioned, like friendships. One thing that you touch on a lot is etiquette. You have a lot of strategies and solutions for people who want to navigate how you manage these relationships politely when it comes to money. For example, sometimes people are judgmental as they move into adulthood and they're learning about what things cost. Tell us more about that and how people can approach that.

Alyssa Mairanz:

I think money is a very individualized, subjective experience for everyone. And so a big part of why I like to talk about this in adulting in the real world is everyone has to figure out what works for them, right? And so being able to not judge others for how they spend money and not judge yourself for how you spend your money, as long as, you know, you're looking at what's best for yourself is really a key process of all of this.

Bobbi Rebell:

And navigating friendships when it comes to money is really complicated, especially when you're first starting out as young adults. Although, let me tell you, it continues on well into middle age. What advice do you have for people when they go out? For example, maybe there's group gifts, maybe there's group dinners, different economic backgrounds, different economic resources, even though sometimes people have the same job, they might have very different situations in terms of the money they have available to spend. What's your advice?

Alyssa Mairanz:

That’s an excellent question. My advice is first and foremost, know what your boundaries are and stick to them regardless of what you may think someone else is judging you for or what they're pushing. And then at the same time, recognize that everyone has different boundaries around money and different capabilities and be kind and patient with what people are willing to work on with you. So for example, if everyone is asking you to chip in for... a friend's wedding gift and they're saying, hey, everyone give $50, but for you that's really a lot of money. You could say, listen, I would love to contribute, but based on my needs, I'm only able to give $25. And I hope that that's okay. If not, I'm gonna do something separately. Or going out to eat is a big one, and being prepared to, sometimes people are like, why don't we just all split it equally? And you may be like, I got a salad and one drink and everyone got. two drinks and steaks and I don't really want to do that and being able to say, listen, I really want to pay for just what I bought. And then on the opposite end, being open to hear what someone else might have to say in terms of how they want to split a bill because of their finances and what they actually did buy.

Bobbi Rebell:

And that goes to etiquette because a lot of people don't feel comfortable speaking up when the bill comes. Are there ways to head off that situation in advance so that you're not in that precarious situation?

Alyssa Mairanz:

Definitely. The key is, you know, don't wait for the bill to come when you're going out and after you order at some point, you know, you can already bring it up and just say, listen, this is, you know, what I feel comfortable with when the bill comes, what works for you or you guys, if it's multiple people and have that discussion. So you're not scrambling and rushing when the bill actually comes and everyone's just maybe potentially just throwing out credit cards and saying, let's just split this.

Bobbi Rebell:

Life is getting so expensive these days. Inflation is out of control. One thing that you talk about a lot is very practical ways and literally painless ways to save money. So for example, maybe you shouldn't order out at all, but let's say you do, right? There are still ways to save money and so you sort of feel in control of the ordering out experience a little bit more. You can keep the bill a little more contained. Share with us some of those strategies.

Alyssa Mairanz:

So, ordering out, I think, applies, it's important to say it applies to groceries and just ordering from a restaurant. And so thinking for yourself, maybe putting a boundary on how many times a week or a month that you're able to order out. So you're not saying I can't ever do this and setting unrealistic standards, but also looking at, well, what really is reasonable for you to do. And then you also can look for deals. Like if you go on Uber Eats or Seamless to order from foods, a lot of times you can look at what restaurants are having discounts and order that way. And then when it comes to groceries, a lot of times actually delivered groceries can really save you money even if you have a delivery fee because you really end up sticking just to your list, right? I know when I do online deliveries, you have to search for what you want rather than just walking up and down aisles and then grabbing all this extra stuff. and you go to the supermarket and you think, hey, I'll spend maybe $50. And then all of a sudden it could be 100, $200 later. And you're like, did I even really need this stuff?

Bobbi Rebell:

A lot of us love to order food delivery, but it's not always in our budget. Is there a way to kind of meander through that and figure out a way to make it work but still be cost-conscious? What tips do you have there?

Alyssa Mairanz:

There are definitely a few tips that you can keep in mind. And one of them is looking at delivery versus picking up. So if you're considering delivery, first look at what restaurants may be having deals and specials, what delivery places have a delivery fee in addition and what don't. And otherwise looking into, you know what, maybe go call the restaurant directly, pick up your food, prices can be lower. And it allows you to also go and look what restaurants have. in restaurant happy hour specials and things like that.

Bobbi Rebell:

And lunch specials. Always do. Sometimes the lunch specials last until like 3, 4 o'clock and then you move into happy hour, right?

Alyssa Mairanz:

Yeah, exactly. And so you can kind of do it back to back. And, you know, if you have the time, especially with a lot of people working from home now and you have a little more flexibility, you can go and say I'm picking up dinner that you may not eat till 6pm, but it's you get it at 3pm at a special and it's there and ready for you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Exactly. It's really hard. One of the big challenges moving into adulthood is managing all the logistics of just everyday life from different insurance and different responsibilities. How do people manage the stress and the tedious and endless to-do list, Alyssa, of things? I'm thinking about health insurance and all the nightmares that come with managing the bills. This is something you've covered on your social media frankly.

Alyssa Mairanz:

Yeah, it’s really hard and that's one of the biggest reasons I started adulting in the real world. And the first step is finding out that information, right? And so I'm trying to give everyone that information both on social media and more in detail in the course. And then the next step is really about being kind to yourself, knowing that you're not alone. This is a really hard process for everyone and giving yourself that patience and kindness and grace to be able to say. I need to learn this and I'll make some mistakes along the way and that's okay. And secondarily also looking for who you can ask for support, whether it's talking to friends and having that space to just vent about being in the same boat or if you have parents or family members that can give you some guidance, you know, anything like that.

Bobbi Rebell:

How open should people be, especially as they move through different stages of life, about their finances with people that they interact with in life? At what point do you say it all or should you keep it private? Because some of it is personal and you don't really want to expose yourself to everyone.

Alyssa Mairanz:

Definitely, It's really about knowing who you're talking to, right? And sticking to your comfort level. So I'm someone who is very open. And especially in the course, I like to share personal things so that people can learn. But everyone has to protect themselves and know how people are going to react. Parents are often the people you want to keep the most boundaries from because they have their own opinions. At the end of the day, it's really about what are you comfortable with and knowing that you're talking to someone who can provide a safe space where they won't judge you, they won't give you stressful unsolicited advice, and they'll just be there to support you.

Bobbi Rebell:

So what would be an example?

Alyssa Mairanz:

I mean, I talk a lot about debt I had when I was in my early to mid 20s, because I really had no idea how to navigate money. At the time, going around telling everyone, hey, I have X amount of money in debt is not really, you know, effective or helpful to me in any way. And I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. But I do know that I did share with my parents to some degree in terms of what they were able to help and support me with. and talking to friends to see what they do and if they have any advice or support. And so you really have to think about what are your needs, right? If you need to be able to share something to vent because you're stressed, who can you talk to that's a safe space? You need to share something to get advice. Who do you think might have some advice for you? Is there someone that you feel like usually if you bring this stuff up is going to make you feel worse? Stay away from talking to them about finances.

Bobbi Rebell:

And speaking of parents and parent support, one of the big controversies these days is that a lot of young people are moving home in large part because their parents can provide financial support. What is your advice to people, to young people especially, that are moving home in terms of knowing when they should exit? At what point should they say, no matter what, I'm not, well maybe not no matter what, but I'm at the point where I do not want to take parental support because parental support can really be incredibly effective in helping someone. create a financial foundation because you can save up money, maybe pay off your student debt, you can maybe build up a down payment for owning a home, whatever it may be. There's a real purpose to it, but where’s the line?

Alyssa Mairanz:

I mean I live with my parents till I was 26 and at my stage I was one of the last people still living with my parents and what it comes down to is How are you managing at home? Right? How much is it impacting your mental health if you find dealing with your parents and then projecting what they want on you or? Is everyone talking about just being in your business wanting to know your comings and goings? I know that was my biggest stress And it's really taking away from your ability to focus on other things or feel positive in your day to day, that's when you want to consider how can you exit. And another thing is maybe you actually have a really good home situation and it's working great for you, but you want to look at, are you just getting comfortable and allowing yourself to save just to save, but then the longer you let that go, the harder it's going to be to get out into the adult world. So looking at if you can really afford to exit and you're staying just because it's comfortable, really ask yourself maybe now is the time to try and see how you can slowly separate and become a little bit more independent.

Bobbi Rebell:

And it's interesting you bring up the perspective of your parents kind of being in your business, but at the same time, if they're supporting you financially, they may feel they're entitled to be in your business.

Alyssa Mairanz:

Definitely you know, and individually everyone has to figure out what boundaries make sense with their parents But that's the key is there is some entitlement when you're living with them, right? You are under their roof They're financially supporting you and that's why rather than saying how can I make this work and set my boundaries? It might be more you know What the best way to set boundaries is say you're gonna try to find a different living situation if you're able to work that out financially

Bobbi Rebell:

What does that conversation look like with your parents? Especially if they say, but if you need money, you should still be at home. You can't afford to move out and maybe you're gonna make the compromises you need to make, maybe a lot of roommates, whatever it may be. Maybe you won't live the same lifestyle level as your parents. Sometimes parents kind of insist that they don't want you to kind of level down on your lifestyle. How do you advise people to manage that?

The key there is recognizing that your parents, at the end of the day, usually do want what's best for you and may not really be open to a conversation and they're just gonna tell you what they want. And so the bottom line is to say, thank you for perspective, I will take that under consideration. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna do what feels right for myself and I hope you can support me.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that. Where can people get in touch with you and find out more.

Alyssa Mairanz:

you can find out more and get in touch with me on the website, adultinginthererialworld.com. And we also have a social media, adultinginthererialworld is the handle, so you can check us out there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you so much!

Alyssa Mairanz:

Thank you, it was great talking!

Bobbi Rebell:

That last point about there being some entitlement for young people being at home is really on point. And the truth is these are hard decisions. It may make more sense financially and on a practical level to live at home and save money but Alyssa points out that sometimes taking your lifestyle down a level if that’s where you are in terms of your adult life makes sense. That push to leave may come more from the younger generation than what we think of as the typical push which has in the past come from the parents.

This week’s extra credit assignment in honor of all the graduations going on: Watch my friend Terri Trespicio’s ted talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJ_Ox3XkQ8 Stop Looking for Your Passion or read her book unfollow your passion https://territrespicio.com/unfollow/

She reframes how we think about where we put our focus as we move through different life stages and really helps us focus on getting on with our life. I am constantly recommending her book to people because I myself circle back to it when I’m feeling a little lost with my own life goals.

Let me know what you think- about Terri’s content and also my interview with Alyssa Mairanz. DM me on instagram at bobbirebell1 and please follow me as well. And for more financial grownup content - free- get on my newsletter list at bobbirebell.substack.com or click on the button on my website bobbirebell.com where you can also find show notes with links to the things we mention here on the podcast- including Alyssa Mairanz Adulting in the Real World course.

That’s all for this week- big thanks to Alyssa Mairanz- for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanMay 30, 2023Template

Finding financial wellness in a very sick healthcare system with Dan Weissmann

Episode Description: Dan Weissmann, host of the Arm and a Leg podcast shares his strategies on affordable healthcare, new legislation that can lower your healthcare bills and protect your credit score, how to negotiate medical debt and more.

Video Highlight: Dan speaks about the No Surprise Act.

Dan Weissman’s Bio:Dan Weissmann is a public-radio reporter and the host of An Arm and a Leg — a podcast about why health care costs so freaking much, and what we can maybe do about it.

Before launching An Arm and a Leg in 2018, Dan was a staff reporter for the public-radio show Marketplace, and for WBEZ in Chicago.

As a reporter, Dan likes a challenge. That’s why the job he’s chosen is to take one of the most enraging, terrifying, depressing parts of American life, and create something entertaining, empowering, and useful.

It’s a vital challenge: For instance, four in ten adults **with health insurance** report carrying medical debt.

An Arm and a Leg has built a loyal audience, won respect among journalists, and made an impact.

Now in its fifth year, with over 3 million downloads, the show was recently selected as one of “12 Health Podcasts Worth Listening To” by the New York Times. An Arm and a Leg show won an Ambie Award from the Podcast Academy in 2022 for Best Indie Podcast.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Dan Weissmann!

Dan’s Website (to hear all our episodes and learn about the show)
First Aid Kit Newsletter
Facebook
Twitter
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Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Welcome to the Wellness for Financial Grownups podcast. I’m your host Bobbi Rebell. So glad you are here with us for this unbelievable episode and I do mean unbelievable because we are talking about the high cost of medical care- and will be sharing some very specific ways we can control at least some of it.

This weeks quote is from the NPR podcast Life and Debt:

“The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau reported last year that there's around $88 billion of medical debt in collections, and about 43 million Americans have medical debt on their credit report.”

Wow right? Well we’re going to get into why that happens so so many people It always shocks me how messed up our healthcare system is- and how much you can overpay if you don’t know what you are doing. I can pretty much guarantee the information this week’s guest is going to reveal will blow you away and save you not just money but really a lot of anxiety- truly financial wellness in its most literal form.

Our guest is a wealth of information. Dan Weissman is the host of the arm and a leg podcast which is about why health care costs so much, and what we can maybe do about it.

Before launching An Arm and a Leg in 2018, Dan was a staff reporter for the public-radio show Marketplace, and for WBEZ in Chicago.

You will want to take notes but you can get them right on my bobbirebell.com website under the podcast tab where we have shownotes and transcripts so just sit back, listen and learn.

Here is Dan Weissmann

Dan Weismann, you’re a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast!

So, Dan Weissmann, you're a financial grownup and host of the Arm in a Leg podcast. Welcome to this podcast.

Dan Weissmann:

Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for assuming I'm a financial grownup. I definitely do host this podcast though.

Bobbi Rebell:

Well, not only is our healthcare system terrible for our financial health, it can also do so much damage to so many different areas of our life. We focus on financial wellness here at the podcast

Dan Weissmann:

Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it's certainly gotten worse in the last 15 years, despite, I mean, the Affordable Care Act has, did make some changes, I think, for the better for a lot of people, including for me in some ways. But, no, we're, everything, the systemic problem is it's a giant system that really allows people to make a lot of money. Even, even entities that are organized as nonprofits, kind of looking at their bottom line and. Wow, you've asked the great big question. How bad is this for us? It's terrible, right? As you said, we're all at risk of being in debt up to our eyeballs.

Bobbi Rebell:

So give us some examples of things that as consumers of healthcare, and healthcare is so frustrating because we usually go in, not always, but very often we go in, the biggest bills happen when we're in an urgent situation and not in a position to negotiate or even ask what things cost to me. Can you imagine shopping for anything other than healthcare, having no idea what the price is and having... really no choices about so many things that happen to you. So walk me through how this works and what's really going on here, because we thought with the ACA, we had different protections going on.

Dan Weissmann:

Right, well, what the ACA does and did for me was it means that you kind of can't be uninsurable. Like I have a congenital heart defect and it doesn't affect my life too much, but I get checked up on once a year. But before the ACA, if I wasn't getting insurance from a job, I basically couldn't get health insurance, which was scary and horrible. So, you know, and the ACA put a floor essentially under what health insurance means. It means there's a list of like 10 or so kinds of things that it has to cover, including well-care visits once a year, coverage for mental health, all kinds of things. And those things didn't exist before. Like some state, your state might regulate insurance in a certain way, it might not. So the ACA put a floor under certain things, great. But it didn't change the basic system, which is, it's a non-system. It's just a bunch of things that people and companies do. And what companies do is they like to get the greatest financial advantage they possibly can. And one of the biggest problems in some ways is that all the entities that we see and interact with, one way or the other, pharma companies, insurance companies, hospitals and providers, see themselves and are in battle with each other. If I'm a hospital or a doctor, I'm thinking about the insurance company is gonna nickel and dime me over this. I gotta be sure. Like for instance, if I'm doing a well care visit, I'm doing a preventative visit, they're gonna pay me just a little bit for it. And I'm gonna spend half an hour with this person and I'm not gonna earn any money, right? How am I gonna fix that? Well, okay, here's what I can do. I know if I ask like, hey, do you need your meds renewed? Well, then like that was a separate service. That was a consultation. Did you ask me about some problem that we haven't talked about before? Oh. That now we've consulted on a brand new problem. And suddenly this wellness, this well visit that's supposed to be free for me is now loaded up with these other charges, which now we're on another side, right? I have insurance. Well, okay, great. But what does that insurance pay? Like, and what does it not pay? Like, okay, hopefully I've gone someplace where they take my insurance and I've done that homework. But most of us, our insurance has what's called a deductible. And now we pay out of pocket before that. insurance kicks in and pays anything. Um, you know, in my case, it's like $750 and that's not very much. I mean, it's a lot to me, but when we were looking at insurance plans, right. It was like, you want that $750 deductible. Well, we're paying a lot in our kind of monthly premium for that, right. The only pay every month. Like if we were to, if, but you know, to get lower monthly premium, we would have like a $2,000 deductible, a $5,000 deductible. These things, so this is $5,000 you're paying out of pocket before your insurance does anything for you. This is your insurance company saying, oh man, these providers are hitting us up for all this money. We got to make that up someplace. We can't pay out to providers more than we take in in premiums and we got to have a little profit for ourselves. So, you know, gosh, this premium sounds like a lot to you. How about a lower premium with a $5,000 deductible? Well, that's, you know, I happen to shop for insurance on my own like this, but if I'm running a company and I have employees, I'm also looking like, what am I paying every month to cover Dan and Bobbie and their families and all the things? And if I can't, and the insurance company says, it's gonna cost you 25% more to cover them this year, I'd be like, I can't afford that. They'll be like, well, how about this? They'll just have a higher deductible. And maybe higher co-pays and higher what's called co-insurance, which is where if they actually need a big service, they pay a percentage like, and I'm like, so all of this. So, so we get hit with these, we, we, as individuals get hit while these, while these other entities are kind of edging each other, trying not to kind of go out of business.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah. So I wanna get to some financial wellness strategies for the actual consumers, for our financial grownups that listen to this podcast. So you go to the doctor, you get the bill. What can you do? I'm gonna assume you don't like the bill.

Dan Weissmann:

I don't like it at all. Well, one thing I'm going to do, I actually had this story of like having a well visit. This was last week. I saw my doctor and afterwards I was like, oh, I let her ask me about stuff. I admitted that I'd been feeling under the weather that we could be bad. So I'm going to when that bill comes, I'm going to take a close look at it. If it doesn't have an itemized list of charges of every single thing, I'm going to call up. And I'm going to say I need what's called the super bill. or an itemized bill with every single charge. And I wanna make sure it has what's called the CPT code on it. And I was looking at it, I was like, what does that stand for? It stands for current procedural terminology. And I'm gonna look those up. What am I being charged for? Now, maybe I'm gonna like it fine. Maybe it's gonna be like you had a well visit that's covered under the ACA and under your plan. You don't know it's anything. I'll be like, great. But if not, I'm going to look and I'm going to ask like, did that one, did that really happen? And two, if I dig deep enough, a listener just tipped me off to this. I can, I can look up. Cause you, and basically you're Google, you're Googling things here. Like what is the CPT code for this mean? And you want to go a little deeper and digging in, I can find out how much time is that supposed to take? Cause that whole encounter was like 25 minutes. And if that bill is stacked up. to show that we were there for an hour and a half, I'm gonna have some things to say about that. I'm gonna call the billing office. I'm gonna call my insurance broker. I'm gonna call, and I mean, we'll see where things go from there. Sometimes you call and someone's like, oh yeah, I see what you're talking about. And they take care of it. Happens all the time. But sometimes you call and they're like, no, that's what happened. That's our charge. You're paying it. And then, and then. This is why this is so horrible, right? Because it's like when something goes wrong with your computer and you don't really know. Like, is this the thing where if I Google a little bit and try a couple things and invest 10 minutes in it, I can fix it? Or is this this kind of thing where if like I Google and I try a couple things, I'm gonna be here all day and at the end of the day, I'm gonna find out I need a new computer. Like you don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right, but you do say, by the way, here's a little tip. You do say, if you don't like the person you get on the other end of the phone line, call back, you may get somebody else. I want to move on to something called the No Surprises Act that happened last year. Tell us about that.

Dan Weissmann:

Sure, the No Surprises Act was a response to something that was so horrible that Congress actually, a divided Congress actually had to do something about it, decided to do something about it. And this was what's called a surprise out-of-network bills. Because obviously, I'm anticipating the possibility of a really unpleasant surprise for this medical encounter I had last week. And that happens all the time. This is a somewhat more limited situation where you go someplace where you've checked it out. They take your insurance. Oh my gosh, I'm worried I'm going to go to the hospital. I'm going to go to the emergency room, for instance, or I need surgery. I'm going to go someplace where they're in network with my insurance. But then I get the bill and surprise. I get a SEP. I'm getting a separate bill from a provider I saw from the ER doc, or if there's surgery, like from the radiologist or the anesthesiologist, they're not in my insurance network, they're in business for themselves. They don't work. They're not employed by the hospital and they don't take my insurance. And they're sending me a bill for. whatever they want. And my insurance is like, well, that's out of network. Maybe we'll give them a few dollars depending and if you've met you're out of network deductible or whatever. And meanwhile, I'm on the look for whatever they're charging me. That's a really unpleasant surprise. And that was entirely legal until recently. The law took effect the beginning of 2022. And now the rule is you go someplace where it's in-network for your insurance. Basically. If you happen to see somebody who doesn't take your insurance, your insurance company is just supposed to work it out with that provider and make it so that you're not paying any more than you would if they were in your insurance network. And you're protected.

Bobbi Rebell:

Let's talk about medical debt. What rights do people have with medical, how do they deal with debt collectors? Put it that way. What do you do if you get to the point where you're disputing it, you're not happy, but you now have medical debt, which a lot of people have?

Dan Weissmann:

Tons of medical debt

Bobbi Rebell:

What are your rights?What do you do?

Dan Weissmann:

well, okay. So, so here's a couple of things very, very important to know. One, and maybe the most important is last year, the credit reporting bureaus said, you know what? We are no longer recording medical debts under $500. That's no longer going to hit your credit. So one thing that's really important to know, and when you say medical debt, like, well, who do you owe it to? Or who's asking you for it? Is the hospital the provider asking you for it? Have they hired a collection agency to go after you for it? Or they may have sold the debt to somebody else, to a third-party collection agency that's now after you for it. That's kind of important to know because if it's the hospital or the provider, you may be able to make a deal with them and say, hey, look, how about I give you half of this and make it go away? If it's a... If it's someone that they've hired, that person may be constrained and they may say, I can only cut you a deal for 20%. If you're dealing with somebody who bought the debt, they may be like, look, I paid 10 cents on the dollar for this. If you give me 30 cents on the dollar, I'm coming out way ahead. I mean, they won't say this to you, but you can ask them, what kind of to discount you want. So there's many, I mean, those are, those are strategies. The one important, but the, the fact that. bills under $500 don't go in your credit report at all is important because one medical encounter could yield a bunch of bills that could stack up to thousands of dollars, but they may be individual bills of less than $500. That is, I mean, look, I'm not telling anybody just stiff people, but it does give you some leverage, especially if you're disputing something to say, look, you know, there's a limited amount of damage you're going to do to me. We all have our strategies in how we deal with people. And I don't necessarily recommend, I don't think it's that effective or that nice to kind of give someone a stiff arm. But to know that you're in a position where there's a limited amount of damage they can do to you is important. Similarly, those credit reporting bureaus aren't listing medical debts of any kind for, I think a year, which again means you have time. Even if, because what you're really trying to prevent, your credit getting hurt or getting sued, getting your wages garnished, that can happen. And those are scary and they do happen. So the thing to know is you have time to kind of pursue this.

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah. Before we wrap up, I want to get your number one financial wellness strategy when it comes to healthcare and health insurance and dealing with the system that we have here in the United States. For the average person who has the average amount of healthcare in a year, you know, not necessarily with a huge illness, let's hope. What can people do to not get themselves into these debacles?

Dan Weissmann:

It's super a Good question. I think the first thing to do is to know how to shop for insurance and to understand insurance, understand what you're getting into. An insurance contract, you know, when you, I mean, you're getting insurance benefits, like that is designed by at least as big a team, probably bigger, of financial experts and legal experts as if you were buying a derivatives contract. It's the kind of financial instrument that most of us as individuals wouldn't be qualified to get on the other side of if we were like an investment deal. It's that complicated. There's a lot to know. So I would say learn what you can. I have some resources. We have a newsletter called First Aid Kit. We did a kind of three-part series about understanding insurance because there's a lot of terminology, a lot of math to understand. And again, it's not... It's not made for us. It's made for professionals. So we have some there's a guy he's in our newsletter and he's in our podcast, he made an incredible 30 minute video about understanding health insurance. It's hilarious and it's horrifying and it's accurate. And so if you prefer this in YouTube form, he's got you. And there are other places to learn this but understand what you're getting into. How much are you likely to be on the hook for? If there's a deductible. What is it? When there probably is, you know, what are your obligations? Where, what's your insurance network? If they tell you these are the doctors you can see, fact check it. Call anybody you're thinking you're gonna see before you go. Hopefully, if you think you're gonna see them this year, like as the year begins and say like, I'm gonna read you what's on my insurance card. Tell me if you actually take my insurance. Don't tell me if you take Blue Cross, because there's a million different little variations of Blue Cross. Do you take XYZ, Blue Cross, blah, blah, blah, and they'll tell you and then call them again before you actually show up. It changes all the time and the list your insurance company gives you may not be accurate.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, Dan, so where can we catch up with you? I know you've got the newsletter, you've got the podcast. Give me all your socials.

Dan Weissmann:

Oh, thank you so much. The podcast is called An Arm and a Leg. You can find it wherever you get podcasts. You can find it also on our website, which is armandaleggshow.com. We are on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram @Arm and a Leg Show. That's us.

Bobbi Rebell:

Perfect, thanks Dan.

Dan Weissmann:

Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:

So much quality intel in that interview. Huge thanks to Dan and I’m now a dedicated listener to the arm and a leg podcast.

Extra credit assignment for all you grownup friends: Watch the PBS report Critical Care America VS the world on why the US Healthcare system is so much more expensive- and yet somehow seems less effective than the rest of the world. We will leave a link in the show notes. And while you are on the website be sure to sign up for our free newsletter where we share more ways to be financial grownups.

Big thanks to Dan Weissman for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanMay 23, 2023Template

Healthy shopping habits for financial grownups with Meghan Dwye

Episode Description: Certified Financial Planner Meghan Dwyer, who hosts the Money Isn’t Scary Podcast shares her strategies to manage the urge to splurge while still getting what you need.

Video Highlight: Meghan explains that self-care doesn’t always mean spending money.

Meghan Dwyer’s Bio: Meghan Dwyer is on a mission to remove the stigma around Money in our culture, so that women can begin to step into their own light and make choices free of fear. Through sharing her own personal experiences, Meghan encourages others to explore the, sometimes uncomfortable, roles that money plays in our lives. Meghan believes that once we fully explore our money stories and begin to challenge them, only then can we break open the societal constructs that keep women playing small. Meghan is host of the Money Isn’t Scary podcast, which takes you on her personal journey with money. Meghan is a Certified Financial Planner professional and loves running, writing, snuggling with her kids and empowering women to be their best selves.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

Follow Meghan!

Follow Bobbi!

Instagram - @bobbirebell1
Twitter- @bobbirebell
LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell
TikTok - @bobbirebell
Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.
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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

From tempting sales to the massive industry that self care has become, shopping is everything and can make financial wellness really challenging- we’re talking about that with our guest this week: Certified Financial Planner Meghan Dwyer who is also the host of the Money Isn’t Scary podcast on which I was recently a guest.

To set the stage- I want to share this week’s quote:

“They said I was a valued customer, now they send me hate mail.”

― Sophie Kinsella, Confessions of a Shopaholic

Love this quote because of course we feel so wanted when a retailer is trying to sell us something- they love bomb us with emails or if we are in person those sales people always seem to totally “get us”

But after the money changes hands.. If you don’t pay.. Well.. and so it goes.

So let’s get honest about the emotional and financial costs of shopping- including the hard core marketing tactics that pull us in and make it so hard to resist. It's not like you can just never buy anything so you have to figure out strategies. We have the perfect guest this week. Meghan Dwyer is a certified financial planner and the host of the Money isn’t Scary podcast. In our interview we touch on everything from how to handle well intentioned friends who encourage you to buy even though they may not know your financial health- and the ever growing push to buy buy buy in the name of self care. Listen closely my friends..I Love this interview, you will too.

Here is Meghan Dwyer.

Megan Dwyer, You are a financial grown up! Welcome to the podcast. I'm glad you're finally here. I got you well into your. Let me start over one more time, Steve. Sorry because the drilling is going. Let's ope megandwere. You're a financial, grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Meghan Dwyer:

Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell::

You are the host of the Money isn't Scary podcast, which now has over a hundred episodes. Congratulations on making it thus far and it's a great podcast. By the way.

Meghan Dwyer:

Thank you. honestly, I didn't know it was even going to go this far, but here I am and absolutely loving it.

Bobbi Rebell::

Well, I love that you mix money advice and also very practical tips. And the podcast. One of my favorite things about the money isn't scary podcast. By the way, money can be very scary, so I'm just going to differ from you there, is that you mix the practical with the sort of um, philosophical ideas about money, and you give overarching themes, but you also get very sort of down and dirty about the kinds of psychological traps that people get into. One of the big themes that runs throughout many episodes of your podcast is shopping, And you know sort of this shopping fix that we all need to have. Why do you pay so much attention to shopping when you're talking about money, rather than like estate planning or investing or taxes, and all the other things, or just personal finance, in general,

Meghan Dwyer:

Well, there's a couple of reasons for that, So I am a certified financial planner. That's my age upright, and I see in the work that I do how important spending is to the success of a client's financial plan. Right. That is the one thing that we can absolutely control, Right. we can control what happens in our lives or what happens to the world around us. Are the markets we don't. We don't know right, but we can control where our dollars go. And so the other part of this is when I started the podcast. It was during the pandemic, and I was finding that I was doing a lot of online shopping myself to sort of fill a void, And I didn't even really. I couldn't. I couldn't put words to it. I didn't really know quite what it was, but there was something going on there like, I mean, a lot of us. we struggled during the pandemic, right, We were all dealing with our own kind of emotional, financial, um, behavioral struggles, right with everything that was going on and the impact that it had on not only us but our families and the people around us. And so I just always kind of you. Shopping is sort of a coping strategy and I think it's one of those culturally acceptable coping strategies And I say Actually, in one of my episodes I talk about how you know it's perfectly okay to say to your family. Hey, I'm going to go to Target or I'm goin to the mall for three hours, but if you were to say hey, I'm going to a bar for three hours. people will be like. What? What do you do? And alright You have a problem. There's something wrong with you But stopping is different. I mean, it's encouraged and in a similar way to some of those, our behavior is that that exist, right that, as ways of coping like you know, having a glass of wine or exercising or like the little high that we get in certain ways, Shopping also gives us that high, and it gives us that little bit of a dopamine rush. And that's I think that what we're really looking for we're looking for kind of an escape from every day. Yeah,

Bobbi Rebell::

I totally relate, and I'll tell you I'm going to make a little confession here on the podcast that

I had never before the pandemic, I had never bought something that I saw on one of those morning television shows and now I have done it more times than I can count. I would say I'm happy with three quarters of the purchases. Some of them are kind of duds and I don't think I fully understood. You know they get. They do tell you that they get a cut from it, but they're so good at selling. I mean, how do we not? And they say this, The other thing mean they always say. Well, it's seventy-five per cent off only for viewers of this show and I fall for it because I see that initial price and I think what a deal. And sure, of course I could use another candle right?

Meghan Dwyer:

We love sales as humans. we absolutely love getting a deal. I find there So fascinating right. It's like we don't realize that we even need an item until we walk into a store and we see that it's seventy five per cent, or we see the ad for it online right And so much of shopping on sale is impulse buying, and a lot of the things that I talk about on the podcast is aligning our spending where our dollars are going with our with intention, and my audience is a lot of women and a lot of mom's and because it's really gear towards me and where I am And me kind of working through the struggles that I'm going through right now along with you. It's one of those like I'm holding your hand along through this journey because I'm right there with you and I see so many women that will well, you know, think of, go in to a store because there's something in the. That is, you know, you see the signs on the on the store, like the on the window that say Hey, everything is fifty percent of. I need to go in there and I need to go see if I can Get something in there to give me that little bit of a rush. Because I am stressed out. I'm overwhelmed. I'm exhausted. I'm a mom and I really, to some extent wish I could be anywhere but maybe where I am right now right so, I'm going to go in there and I'm going a buy that pair. Um, you know, I'm figuring like sandals or like expensive shoes. That serve me no real purpose for the here now, but I imagine myself wearing them somewhere in the future, somewhere You know, out to dinner or on some vacation or something like that, because I want to be somewhere that I enjoy somewhere that makes me happy. something that I crave and I've realized as I was doing this that that it's all not what the physical item that we're actually buying. It's the. It's the feeling underneath the item. The feeling that's behind the item and sales are one of those things that I think just impulsively kind of take us to that next level if you see something that's on sale Ure, like, Oh, have to have it absolutely have to have it.

Bobbi Rebell::

I also feel like sometimes you feel like you won. like when everyone else is beating you up. You know that day you just feel so exhausted from life and you feel like. Well, At least I got to win today because I got this item that maybe I did have my eye on. It's not always in it. both by. Maybe it's something you've been watching Right To be fair, Maybe it is something that you did need That's at a better price. You feel like I scored. I am taking care of my family in buying things, and I'm getting a deal because we don't want to pay full price, and there's this whole Game that they play with the price. I sometimes wonder, are those full prices ever real? And how much markup is really in there? Because how can store stay in business? If they have things on sale all the time? How do they even make the money? I mean, there's a whole gameifacation going on right?

Meghan Dwyer:

absolutely. And there's there's absolute mark ups and there's articles out there and there's some science behind it, but yeah, of course stores have to stay in business. And how how is that absolutely possible when you walk in and it feels like every time you go into a store, it's everything is fifty to sixty percent off. Of course,

Bobbi Rebell::

So what is your advice for people who have this urged to shop when they kind of are feeling powerless, especially when they feel overwhelmed by their finances. I mean, that's the irony is. sometimes we're most tempted to shop. It's almost like when you already feel If the diet fan wagon, you know when you already feel like your finances are a mess. Well, I might as well go buy something, because at least they'll look good and whatever, and I might never have a chance again, so I should just you know, buy this item. It will make me feel better. What advice do you have for people? want to maybe stop, But also to maybe understand more about what's going on what they're up against from these stores?

Meghan Dwyer:

Yeah, so what I like to say is let's slow it down. Let's I call it like, let's jump off the tread mill for a hot second right, especially as we're busy. I am a full time working mom with two little ones. I know so many women out there are as well, and so we don't take the time to even get to know ourselves very well. I think we don't take the time to kind of just sit down and understand like where are we at? Who are we right now? What do we even like to do? What are our values? What's important to us and that is work that absolutely has to be done. It's the stuff that nobody likes to do. To be perfectly honest, because it can be uncomfortable because we like to compare ourselves to pass versions of ourselves right and like. you Know the example that you just used with like Well, you know, Screw the diet right. it's like you comparing yourselves to the way you might have looked ten years ago, right versus where you are now? But everything has changed. Your life has changed, and for me, kids have changed, and so many moms in particular, I feel like don't know who they are now Because Their identity is wrapped up in being a mother. And our identity is our kids right to some extent, so it's really important to kind of bring it back home and take some time to slow down and figure out who you are. what's important to you and what are your values right now, and there's nothing wrong in my mind with spending your dollars as long as they're in an alignment with the things that you value an alignment with your intentions Right. So my whole goal. What I talk about a lot is, let's be more Intentional with the with what we're spending our money on For me personally, Here's an example. I like to run. Running is like my outlet when I can do it when I don't have the kids around. And so, if I like to, if I'm going, spend my money on anything. I really want a new pair of sneakers like I will have. No, I have no problem going and spending a hundred and fifty dollars on a new Pair of sneakers because I know I'm going to get use out of it. but if you know, on the contrary, I always talk about Target a lot on my show because I love Target and I Like there's. It's one of those very common outlets for many women at this stage of life. Right? You always see a lot of moms just there with the strollers or the baby buckets and stuff. And if I want to go into a target and say you know, Oh, you know, you see this little whatever it is, like a sports brawl or something like that that's on sale and you're like, Oh, I have to have it. It feels to some extent like it does give you that high in the moment, right, because there is that kind of neurological like actual science around it. It gives you that that little high, The dopamine rush. but when you get home, you often feel guilt around it. I do at least, and the guilt I think is what makes me realize that I'm not buying things in alignment with my intention. I'm not. That wasn't an intentional purchase. It was a. It was a kind of a. I need to get something quick and fast. I need a little. I need a little rush. I need something right now to make me feel better because I'm you know, Av bin a tough week or a tough morning and we all have those right, So it's like a little reward to some extent, But at the end it's false. It's not T's unsatisfying, and it's going to make you go back and do more, because it's not actually serving the purpose that you want. so I think not only as shopping for me, it's a It's a hobby. It's something I enjoy doing. I'm never going. O, say that I'm not going to shop ever, and because I enjoy doing it, I love going to stores and seeing what's and what's new, The different colors and touching things. That's why I'm not huge online Per. but I feel like shopping is just one tool in one strategy for kind of coping with some of those other stressors that we're dealing with in our every day lives. There's so many other tools out there. It's just one tool in the

Bobbi Rebell::

So what tools should people use if you get the urge to shop? What do you do?

Meghan Dwyer:

I mean, I think like I just said, slowing down taking deep breaths. I think some of the things that I like to do. Honestly, I throw on a quick like five-minute little meditation. Sometimes that on inside timer, just get me to kind of calm and move from my head to my body. Exercise is a big one that I always do or I try to do when I can when I can squeeze it in. but if you can't, it's even just like taking a few minutes to just stretch To just take some time to yourself. Honestly, the big thing I'm going to say is childcare. Get a baby. sit here for a minute And just take the. a lot of people think you're going to get a babysitter just to go out to dinner or to go to an advent or something. It's perfectly okay to get a babysitter to take an hour to yourself. To just slow it down and just remember who you are and who you are.

Bobbi Rebell::

All right before I let you go? I want to ask you about back to shopping. There's a lot of stuff that has pushed to people to buy in the name of self-care. How do we manage that? Because we're told well, this is self-care. You need to treat yourself. You deserve it right. and it's been. It's just been proliferating and do so many different products. What's your take there? And how can people manage that?

Meghan Dwyer:

Yeah, so self care to me, I feel like culture tells you that self care is petty cares and bubble baths. Right And I have learned through the journey on my podcast. I've leaned over the last couple of years, but it's not. It's not. it can be. I sure can be, but it's you know. some of that is expensive. It's not always the cheapest to go get you many petty all the time. Self-care is really tuning in to yourself and honoring yourself. And it's it's standing up Yourself. It's setting boundaries. It's saying no to things. It's for me. One of the big ones is, it's turning off my work computer when I'm home with my kids. It's just trying to do to honor yourself in a way that makes you feel good, and that could be in a pedicure. Sure, it could mean a long hot shower. it could, but it doesn't have to be, and it's not exclusively and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars. You don't have to spend anything to take care of yourself. So I think our culture has gotten a little crazy when it comes to that again, because it's just trying to sell and take advantage of the crazy life that we're in right now, right the stage of life that we're in as parents, and just the general kind of place in time that we're at M, and all the technology and everything, and I think I think we just need to be a little bit more aware. There's absolutely nothing wrong if you like those things, and you want to do something like that. Going to a yoga class, for instance, Like Is a dream. That's like heaven for me, but they're not. They're not cheap. Right, those are expensive. but that's okay. It's totally okay again. If it's if it's an assignment with your goals and your values and what matters to you,

Bobbi Rebell::

Thank you so much. Where can people find out more about you meghan?

Meghan Dwyer:

Yeah, so you can check the podcast out anywhere you listen to podcast again. it's called Money isn't scary and you can find me on Instagram. Just @ money isn't scary. All one word, No apostrophe there, And I also have a Facebook group as well, called the Mindful money Mamas, who can go check me out there. And it's really just building a community of like-minded women who are kind of in it together.

Bobbi Rebell::

Thank you so much.

Meghan Dwyer:

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:

Are you getting ready to make some changes? Or maybe gently talk to a friend you see who could be a little less spendy?

I want to hear about it. DM me on instagram. I’m @bobbirebell1. And get more about topics like this on my free newsletter- subscribe at bobbirebell.substack.com

Or go to my website bobbirebell.com and look for the newsletter sign up. You can also get the shownotes with links to things we talk about here as well as transcripts of the podcast under the podcast tab.

I’m also really excited to share the new program offerings at my education and consulting company Financial Wellness Strategies- please check them out and let me know how I can help you and your team or your clients - that link is in the show notes as well.

Big thanks to Meghan Dwyer for helping us all be financial grownups and invest in peace of mind.

Bobbi Rebell KaufmanMay 16, 2023Template

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